Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nonsi 12-29-05, 04:10 PM	the reason behind the thought to tie CHA with spontaneous arcane-spellcasting (or spellcasting at all) ? spontaneous spellcasters learn several spells and never forget them, while the wizard (THE number one class to dig into magic) can't use only his memory to own a single spell. so except for keeping loyal to OD&D definitions and justifying a practically usless (and excuseless) ability (strength of personality is already covered by WIS and Dextrous is opposite to clumsy), what's the points ?!
Yue Ryong 12-29-05, 04:19 PM	It's a representation of the fact that they're forcing they're will on reality. And remember, Wizards get bonus spells from intelligence, representing memory as well as shear efficiency. Sorcerers, on the other hand, only ever get as many spells known as the class grants.
Puca 12-29-05, 04:30 PM	so except for keeping loyal to OD&D definitions and justifying a practically usless (and excuseless) ability (strength of personality is already covered by WIS and Dextrous is opposite to clumsy), what's the points ?! Strength of personality is Charisma, not Wisdom. The uselessness of Charisma is dependant on your campaign. The more social it is, the more you need to interact with NPCs as opposed to just attacking them, the more important the stat becomes. Playing a wizard currently, I roll with my Charisma far more often than for my Strength.
Vashwood 12-29-05, 05:16 PM	so except for keeping loyal to OD&D definitions and justifying a practically usless (and excuseless) ability (strength of personality is already covered by WIS and Dextrous is opposite to clumsy), what's the points ?! Casting via Charisma is basicly like commanding the world via sheer force to submit to your will ... Intelligence casters, on the other hand, are basicly using a more scientific approach, and Wisdom casters are using their faith and such to call on higher powers ... that should about cover spellcasting, and it's stats for ya. As for Charisma being pointless ... not so much. I mean, you could make the argument that it could be folded into another stat, but you could make that argument about most stats, and eventually just end up with an "I Win" stat. Charisma is, as has been mentioned, the ability to impose your will upon other people (and the world in general), and in a way is the "offensive" representation of willpower (whereas Wisdom is rather more like the "defensive" representation). Aside from that, if you notice, each mental stat basicly mirrors a physical stat ... Charisma is basicly the Strength of the mental stats, Wisdom is sorta like Constitution, and Intelligence shares traits with Dex. If you're ruling out one of them, I'd suggest you consider ruling out it's physical counterpart ... it's about equally valid, after all. And obviously you don't play many social or inventive campaigns ... my group (or the current DM, at least) tends to flinch when they see me with a high charisma. Just to give a few examples ... Use Magic Device is probably the most devastating skill in the game (and is charisma controlled); Bluff, Intimidate, Diplomacy and Perform can stop many fights before they start (and can net you easy xp as you still overcame the obstacle); Clerics use it to turn undead as well; and lastly, just one word: Paladins. This, of course, is without going into the dozens of ways I could turn my Charisma into armor, attack bonus and damage, making it into a rather dangerous combat stat ...
Vestigial_Thumb 12-29-05, 05:26 PM	And it's Force of Personality!
ksbsnowowl 12-29-05, 05:46 PM	the wizard ... can't use only his memory to own a single spell.Sure he can. It's called Spell Mastery.
Gworraent 12-29-05, 07:03 PM	And it's Force of Personality! GAH! The BOLD charismatic aura that emanates from your post is enough to make me submit to your very will. Your limitless power comes the force and assertion of your mighty post. No...to much to handle...giving in to charistmatic post...*sighs, and slumps over losing all control over his mind* THE END
Rulebook 12-29-05, 09:14 PM	every wizard can prepare Read Magic without the use of a spellbook as well.
nonsi 12-30-05, 02:26 AM	Casting via Charisma is basicly like commanding the world via sheer force to submit to your will ... Intelligence casters, on the other hand, are basicly using a more scientific approach, and Wisdom casters are using their faith and such to call on higher powers ... that should about cover spellcasting, and it's stats for ya. As for Charisma being pointless ... not so much. I mean, you could make the argument that it could be folded into another stat, but you could make that argument about most stats, and eventually just end up with an "I Win" stat. Charisma is, as has been mentioned, the ability to impose your will upon other people (and the world in general), and in a way is the "offensive" representation of willpower (whereas Wisdom is rather more like the "defensive" representation). Aside from that, if you notice, each mental stat basicly mirrors a physical stat ... Charisma is basicly the Strength of the mental stats, Wisdom is sorta like Constitution, and Intelligence shares traits with Dex. If you're ruling out one of them, I'd suggest you consider ruling out it's physical counterpart ... it's about equally valid, after all. And obviously you don't play many social or inventive campaigns ... my group (or the current DM, at least) tends to flinch when they see me with a high charisma. Just to give a few examples ... Use Magic Device is probably the most devastating skill in the game (and is charisma controlled); Bluff, Intimidate, Diplomacy and Perform can stop many fights before they start (and can net you easy xp as you still overcame the obstacle); Clerics use it to turn undead as well; and lastly, just one word: Paladins. This, of course, is without going into the dozens of ways I could turn my Charisma into armor, attack bonus and damage, making it into a rather dangerous combat stat ... wonderful answer. nothing more needs to be said. thanks.