Can sorcerers cast divine spells???? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can sorcerers cast divine spells???? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
HyperactiveBuffalo
03-14-04, 02:44 AM im sure this has been asked before, but I am going to ask it again since I cant find it anywhere on the forums.

"Can sorcerers cast divine spells?"

on page 54 of the 3.5 PHB in the spells section paragraph 4 it is stated:
"at each new sorcerer level he gains 1 or more new spells [reference to table, and mention of spells per day not increasing] These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list (page 192), or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study."
-----------

Have I read this wrong, or does this mean that, if given the proper method of study, a sorcerer could learn a spell like Heal?
I just asked this in another thread and got the standard 'this has been covered, and im not going to waste my time showing you."
Luminosity
03-14-04, 02:56 AM No.

But if your DM is dumb enough, sure.
rogue_lettuce
03-14-04, 02:57 AM I would say that that would probably be reffering to the fact that they can 'create spells' - which covers researching long lost arcana, etc, as well as creating them yourself.
There is nowhere in the rules to say they can, and they become unbalanced if they can with no penalties. I think this is a bit of an overinterperetation of a harmless flavour sentence...
Hope that helps.
BlaineTog
03-14-04, 03:09 AM One (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185267&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), Two (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=188880&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), Three (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=146650&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), Four (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=146551&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), Five (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176942&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), Six (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152336&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), Seven (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148323&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), Eight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152092&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), Nine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151064&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), and Ten (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=159994&highlight=Arcane+Healing).
dragoonred
03-14-04, 05:43 AM I happen to rember a prestige class I am dieing to try, the thermatugist, or soemthing liek that. It allowed a palyyers with 3 levels as wiz, sor, or bard, and three levels as a cleric or druid, to begin this prestige class. Every level of witch gave you a level twoards each of the spell caster classes. But you lost all other benfits of the other classe.s Like turning, or famlilarl evels. So yes, a sorcer thermataugist coudl cast healign spells. My question would such a charecter also beable to devise strictly sorcer spells that performed the same function as his cleric spells? Kinda transfering spell slots. I actualy was drooling over the wiz/cleric combo, and was planing on taking over the DnD pantheon if I ever get a chance to play with him.
BlaineTog
03-14-04, 03:51 PM Originally posted by dragoonred
I happen to rember a prestige class I am dieing to try, the thermatugist, or soemthing liek that.Mustic Theruge, in the 3.5 DMG and SRD.

It allowed a palyyers with 3 levels as wiz, sor, or bard, and three levels as a cleric or druid, to begin this prestige class.Not quite. You need to be able to cast 2nd level divine and arcane spells in order to gain enterence to the class. So you only need to take 3 levels of Cleric/Druid and 3 levels of Wizard to get is, but a Sorcerer would need 4 levels and a Bard would need 4 levels and a Cha of at least 14.

Every level of witch gave you a level twoards each of the spell caster classesWhich is why it's banned from my game.

But you lost all other benfits of the other classe.s Like turning, or famlilarl evels.Yeah, but the Familiar is no great loss and turning doesn't seem to happen that often (and even then, it's not the most effective thing in the world, unless you are facing masses of insanely weak skeletons...).

So yes, a sorcer thermataugist coudl cast healign spells.This is spiting hairs, but the Sorcerer levels arn't casting the Cure spell, the Cleric/Druid levels are.

My question would such a charecter also beable to devise strictly sorcer spells that performed the same function as his cleric spells? Kinda transfering spell slots.The Geomancer (From Masters of the Wild) would let you do this. It lets a sorcerer cast divine spells arcanely (IIRC), or the reverse, but that's not the same as a normal sorcerer casting Cures.

I actualy was drooling over the wiz/cleric combo, and was planing on taking over the DnD pantheon if I ever get a chance to play with him.Which is why the Mystic Theruege is banned from my games.
NestroEmichae
03-14-04, 03:57 PM No matter how hard you try, a sorceror cannot cast divine spells. Even if he could use the cure spells, he would be using them as arcane spells.
HyperactiveBuffalo
03-15-04, 01:46 AM I know, a sorcerer can only cast spells arcanely... I was just under the impression that he could learn to cast ANY spell arcanely... I guess what has been ruled is that he can cast any arcane spell, but only arcane spells, and that the vast majority of his spells should come from the wizard/sorc list... okay, thanks for the update. I will take this as acceptable since there has been alot of thought on it, but has wizards officially errata'd it? I like to have official backing for any ruling if at all possible (though I am not above disagreeing, as I ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to allow anyone to take Energy Admixture even if it is official, the feat is just utterly broken.
Hogre
03-15-04, 09:40 AM In the 3.0 DMG, it was suggested that you could make a sorceror who used the cleric's or druid's spell list exclusively.

Of course, then you wouldn't be able to cast arcane spells.
Varrik
03-16-04, 12:36 AM Hm. I think all this is knitpicking.

Clerics have access to "formerly" wizard-only spells.
Clerics have access to damaging spells that are nearly as powerful as Wizard Spells.
Bards have access to psuedo-Cleric spells.
Rogues have access through UMD to Everybodies spells. (All be it through wands, scrolls, etc)

But of course the game goes to hell in a handbasket if the Sorcerer can cast cure moderate wounds???

Rules wise it may be illegal. But I don't see how it can be unbalancing. As it is there are so many ways around the restrictions (though with some limitations) that I don't see the difference. Isn't there some sort of FRC PrC like Southern Magician that specifically gives Arcane Access to Divine Spells? (Sorry, don't play FRC so don't know specifically.)

And if you consider the flavor text for Sorcerers concerning the "other blood" that lends them their powers, and you consider the Dragon (which is what everyone usually thinks of as contributing to Sorcs in the world) then you'll notice that Dragons can choose spells off the Cleric list.

Besides, why can't a Sorcerer research in their spare time and arcane version of the same Clerical spells. (i.e. I don't see why Silence is divine, only.)

What about the feat "Extra Spell Known" does that limit the selection to only Arcane Spells?

[EDIT: Hm. Upon further reflection, there should be some limitations. But better minds than mine will have to come up with ways to determine that. I.E. Miracle should be Divine only. But Silence? Perhaps it could be based off domain selection (without the domain powers.) I.e. A Sorcerer could select two Domains reflecting his ancestry and could select spells from those two lists only as known spells.]
GOLDSMITH
03-17-04, 02:11 PM I know this post was on the second page, but I have an answer for your question HyperactiveBuffalo.

Yes, Sorcerer can cast divine spell with some PrC classes. The rule on Pr domains on page 77 of the DotF. It will say that a Sorcerer that picks up a PrC class that give access to a domain and has never had a level as a cleric can add the spells to his list of known spells. I think there only about 4 PrC that you can do this with though. Sorry I cannot remember right now which ones they are.

GOLDSMITH.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HyperactiveBuffalo 03-14-04, 02:44 AM	im sure this has been asked before, but I am going to ask it again since I cant find it anywhere on the forums. "Can sorcerers cast divine spells?" on page 54 of the 3.5 PHB in the spells section paragraph 4 it is stated: "at each new sorcerer level he gains 1 or more new spells [reference to table, and mention of spells per day not increasing] These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list (page 192), or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study." ----------- Have I read this wrong, or does this mean that, if given the proper method of study, a sorcerer could learn a spell like Heal? I just asked this in another thread and got the standard 'this has been covered, and im not going to waste my time showing you."
Luminosity 03-14-04, 02:56 AM	No. But if your DM is dumb enough, sure.
rogue_lettuce 03-14-04, 02:57 AM	I would say that that would probably be reffering to the fact that they can 'create spells' - which covers researching long lost arcana, etc, as well as creating them yourself. There is nowhere in the rules to say they can, and they become unbalanced if they can with no penalties. I think this is a bit of an overinterperetation of a harmless flavour sentence... Hope that helps.
BlaineTog 03-14-04, 03:09 AM	One (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185267&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), Two (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=188880&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), Three (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=146650&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), Four (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=146551&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), Five (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176942&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), Six (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152336&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), Seven (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148323&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), Eight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152092&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), Nine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151064&highlight=Sorcerer+Cure), and Ten (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=159994&highlight=Arcane+Healing).
dragoonred 03-14-04, 05:43 AM	I happen to rember a prestige class I am dieing to try, the thermatugist, or soemthing liek that. It allowed a palyyers with 3 levels as wiz, sor, or bard, and three levels as a cleric or druid, to begin this prestige class. Every level of witch gave you a level twoards each of the spell caster classes. But you lost all other benfits of the other classe.s Like turning, or famlilarl evels. So yes, a sorcer thermataugist coudl cast healign spells. My question would such a charecter also beable to devise strictly sorcer spells that performed the same function as his cleric spells? Kinda transfering spell slots. I actualy was drooling over the wiz/cleric combo, and was planing on taking over the DnD pantheon if I ever get a chance to play with him.
BlaineTog 03-14-04, 03:51 PM	Originally posted by dragoonred I happen to rember a prestige class I am dieing to try, the thermatugist, or soemthing liek that.Mustic Theruge, in the 3.5 DMG and SRD. It allowed a palyyers with 3 levels as wiz, sor, or bard, and three levels as a cleric or druid, to begin this prestige class.Not quite. You need to be able to cast 2nd level divine and arcane spells in order to gain enterence to the class. So you only need to take 3 levels of Cleric/Druid and 3 levels of Wizard to get is, but a Sorcerer would need 4 levels and a Bard would need 4 levels and a Cha of at least 14. Every level of witch gave you a level twoards each of the spell caster classesWhich is why it's banned from my game. But you lost all other benfits of the other classe.s Like turning, or famlilarl evels.Yeah, but the Familiar is no great loss and turning doesn't seem to happen that often (and even then, it's not the most effective thing in the world, unless you are facing masses of insanely weak skeletons...). So yes, a sorcer thermataugist coudl cast healign spells.This is spiting hairs, but the Sorcerer levels arn't casting the Cure spell, the Cleric/Druid levels are. My question would such a charecter also beable to devise strictly sorcer spells that performed the same function as his cleric spells? Kinda transfering spell slots.The Geomancer (From Masters of the Wild) would let you do this. It lets a sorcerer cast divine spells arcanely (IIRC), or the reverse, but that's not the same as a normal sorcerer casting Cures. I actualy was drooling over the wiz/cleric combo, and was planing on taking over the DnD pantheon if I ever get a chance to play with him.Which is why the Mystic Theruege is banned from my games.
NestroEmichae 03-14-04, 03:57 PM	No matter how hard you try, a sorceror cannot cast divine spells. Even if he could use the cure spells, he would be using them as arcane spells.
HyperactiveBuffalo 03-15-04, 01:46 AM	I know, a sorcerer can only cast spells arcanely... I was just under the impression that he could learn to cast ANY spell arcanely... I guess what has been ruled is that he can cast any arcane spell, but only arcane spells, and that the vast majority of his spells should come from the wizard/sorc list... okay, thanks for the update. I will take this as acceptable since there has been alot of thought on it, but has wizards officially errata'd it? I like to have official backing for any ruling if at all possible (though I am not above disagreeing, as I ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to allow anyone to take Energy Admixture even if it is official, the feat is just utterly broken.
Hogre 03-15-04, 09:40 AM	In the 3.0 DMG, it was suggested that you could make a sorceror who used the cleric's or druid's spell list exclusively. Of course, then you wouldn't be able to cast arcane spells.
Varrik 03-16-04, 12:36 AM	Hm. I think all this is knitpicking. Clerics have access to "formerly" wizard-only spells. Clerics have access to damaging spells that are nearly as powerful as Wizard Spells. Bards have access to psuedo-Cleric spells. Rogues have access through UMD to Everybodies spells. (All be it through wands, scrolls, etc) But of course the game goes to hell in a handbasket if the Sorcerer can cast cure moderate wounds??? Rules wise it may be illegal. But I don't see how it can be unbalancing. As it is there are so many ways around the restrictions (though with some limitations) that I don't see the difference. Isn't there some sort of FRC PrC like Southern Magician that specifically gives Arcane Access to Divine Spells? (Sorry, don't play FRC so don't know specifically.) And if you consider the flavor text for Sorcerers concerning the "other blood" that lends them their powers, and you consider the Dragon (which is what everyone usually thinks of as contributing to Sorcs in the world) then you'll notice that Dragons can choose spells off the Cleric list. Besides, why can't a Sorcerer research in their spare time and arcane version of the same Clerical spells. (i.e. I don't see why Silence is divine, only.) What about the feat "Extra Spell Known" does that limit the selection to only Arcane Spells? [EDIT: Hm. Upon further reflection, there should be some limitations. But better minds than mine will have to come up with ways to determine that. I.E. Miracle should be Divine only. But Silence? Perhaps it could be based off domain selection (without the domain powers.) I.e. A Sorcerer could select two Domains reflecting his ancestry and could select spells from those two lists only as known spells.]
GOLDSMITH 03-17-04, 02:11 PM	I know this post was on the second page, but I have an answer for your question HyperactiveBuffalo. Yes, Sorcerer can cast divine spell with some PrC classes. The rule on Pr domains on page 77 of the DotF. It will say that a Sorcerer that picks up a PrC class that give access to a domain and has never had a level as a cleric can add the spells to his list of known spells. I think there only about 4 PrC that you can do this with though. Sorry I cannot remember right now which ones they are. GOLDSMITH.