Can you say vampire? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can you say vampire? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ruric
10-29-05, 10:40 AM I'm thinking of making a vampire core class. Like how sorcerers have the blood of dragons in them and gain more spells and such as the dragon blood becomes stronger? I'm thinking of making a vampire class that, as they progress in levels, the vampire blood gains more control over them. Slowly they gain more powers AND more weaknesses. They don't end up being merely vampires, because that would make them underpowered at level 20, but what do you think about this sort of thing?
Prince Vine
10-29-05, 10:43 AM Maybe a prestige class instead?
The Almighty Dru
10-29-05, 12:27 PM I'm thinking of making a vampire core class. Like how sorcerers have the blood of dragons in them and gain more spells and such as the dragon blood becomes stronger? I'm thinking of making a vampire class that, as they progress in levels, the vampire blood gains more control over them. Slowly they gain more powers AND more weaknesses. They don't end up being merely vampires, because that would make them underpowered at level 20, but what do you think about this sort of thing?
First, I have to address a little pet peeve. You want to make a vampire BASE class, not a CORE class. Regardless of how many other people use the word "core" in place of "base," it is not the correct usage. "Core" implies the use of only the three core books: PHB, DMG, and MM. "Base" means a class that you can take from levels 1 to 20.

Now, with that out of the way, on to your topic. I don't really think it's a good idea. I don't see exactly what the class could accomplish other than turning you into a vampire. If you want a vampire-themed class, I'd say make one as a prestige class. There are two vampire presige classes, one in the Book of Vile Darkness and one in Libris Mortis. They build on certain powers of the vampire.

The "blood of the vampire" thing, at least in D&D parlance, doesn't make sense. They're undead, so they have no blood. Also, sorcerer is not actually based off of dragons. The sorcerer is simply a spontaneous caster. The fluff in the PHB suggested that they may be decended from dragons, and many supplements support that route, but it is not actually the "official" explanation, if you will. Your sorcerer could very well have been related to vampires in a way, if that's what you offer in your fluff and support with the proper spell selection. It's all a matter of specialization.
d_nychus
10-29-05, 12:32 PM Besides, vampires suck.

...

Well, you knew SOMEONE had to make that joke.
BlaineTog
10-29-05, 12:32 PM First, I have to address a little pet peeve. You want to make a vampire BASE class, not a CORE class. Regardless of how many other people use the word "core" in place of "base," it is not the correct usage. "Core" implies the use of only the three core books: PHB, DMG, and MM. "Base" means a class that you can take from levels 1 to 20.Not necessarily. "Core" can imply "core of the character," as in that's what the character is before you get fancier with PrCs and whatnot.

But w/e.

Anyway, I've got something like that. My Vampire Template has a companion Vampire Paragon Class. Just five levels, but it does the job nicely I am thinking.
Wyrd Bearer
10-29-05, 12:32 PM Well, its a shameless plug, but I did design a PrC that eventually becomes a variant of a vampire at the 10th level. Check my sig for the "Dragon of Blood," and see how that suits you.
Thubby
10-29-05, 02:50 PM bad idea. nuf said
Seeker of Undeath
10-29-05, 06:18 PM Well disregarding taking the 8-level long vampire template class, one could always try a Warlock. The right invocations make one very similar to a vampire in the right ways. Off the top of my head...Swarm Form (I think that was the name. If not you get the gist of the effect.), Spiderwalk, Utterdark Hideous Blow, and Charm do pretty well in emulating the bigger abilities.

Hungry Darkness would be akin to summoning bats via Children of the Night. I've not thought of a way to mimic blood draining yet, but one also wouldn't have the vampire weaknesses. Fiendish Resilience is like a much lesser form of the vampire's Fast Healing. For the energy resistances just choose cold and electricity. Then there's the damage reduction.

The numbers may not be so big, but it's a pretty good +0 LA knock-off that requires little effort. I think taking Leaps and Bounds and so forth can make up for the vampire's skill bonuses pretty well. The only thing I can't think of a good way to substitute for would be the bonus feats.

If you're determined to make a transformative vampire-ish class I recommend taking notes from Dragon Disciple (DMG), Acolyte of the Skin (CA), and Fiend-Blooded (HoH). See what you like about each and how they accomplish what they're meant to. It shouldn't be hard at all to design a PrC for it.

If you want to make a base class revolving around it...have a look at the Dread Necromancer (HoH) and adjust as appropriate for how you want it to perform. I imagine a vampire-oriented class would be less casting intensive, but it might have some.
Ruric
10-29-05, 10:50 PM Hmm. I'm curius about this warlock class... Does anyone have a link to it and these "invocations"?
BlaineTog
10-29-05, 11:23 PM Hmm. I'm curius about this warlock class... Does anyone have a link to it and these "invocations"?It's in "Complete Arcana," which isn't OGL.
Ruric
10-29-05, 11:26 PM Complete arcane, eh? Well... I'm... Er... Poor! Yeah, and I can't afford the book, yes, that'll do nicely. So, um, someone post it here... Yes, that's good, heh heh... :cool:
KoreKore
10-29-05, 11:42 PM you can't do that espically on the wotc forum boards however there is a class based on it call the alchemest
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=498216
it is loosely based but you might be able to get an idea.
Ruric
10-29-05, 11:47 PM Thanks! I sort of get the idea, but I'm curious as the the actual invocation list. Do I REALLY have to go and spend my hard earned money on the book when I can buy pizza instead? :cool:
Molimo
10-29-05, 11:53 PM Thanks! I sort of get the idea, but I'm curious as the the actual invocation list. Do I REALLY have to go and spend my hard earned money on the book when I can buy pizza instead? :cool:

Yes. Yes you do.
Bane
10-29-05, 11:59 PM As was mentioned, Complete Arcane isn't open content, so we can't post parts of it for you. Regarding the vampire base class, I think that it's a terrible idea from a flavor standpoint. How is someone supposed to learn how to be an undead? The fluff for sorcerers states that some sorcerers claim that their magic comes from draconic blood, which makes sense as far as rumors and boasts go. Sorcerers spontaneously cast arcane spells. Dragons spontaneously cast arcane spells. Obviously, there's a connection. Logically, this is incorrect, but if it gives sorcerers a little more prestige in the eyes of a peasant, I don't think the sorcerers are complaining.

In mythology, vampires are generally created by other vampires (kind of like the Create Spawn ability). The cases where a vampire isn't created by another vampire are usually DM fiat types of things, such as Vlad Tepes making a deal with the Devil.

I do like the idea of vampires growing more powerful with age and experience, perhaps a Prestige Class with being a vampire as a racial requirement. If a vampire's really old and powerful, you might look at the Evolved Undead acquired template from Libris Mortis, or the Master Vampire acquired template from the retired Monster Mayhem articles on the Wizards website. The Master Vampire template is 3.0, but it's not a difficult conversion. Ignore the statement regarding alignment, as that already applies to vampires in 3.5, change the damage reduction to 10/silver & good, and it's good to go.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ruric 10-29-05, 10:40 AM	I'm thinking of making a vampire core class. Like how sorcerers have the blood of dragons in them and gain more spells and such as the dragon blood becomes stronger? I'm thinking of making a vampire class that, as they progress in levels, the vampire blood gains more control over them. Slowly they gain more powers AND more weaknesses. They don't end up being merely vampires, because that would make them underpowered at level 20, but what do you think about this sort of thing?
Prince Vine 10-29-05, 10:43 AM	Maybe a prestige class instead?
The Almighty Dru 10-29-05, 12:27 PM	I'm thinking of making a vampire core class. Like how sorcerers have the blood of dragons in them and gain more spells and such as the dragon blood becomes stronger? I'm thinking of making a vampire class that, as they progress in levels, the vampire blood gains more control over them. Slowly they gain more powers AND more weaknesses. They don't end up being merely vampires, because that would make them underpowered at level 20, but what do you think about this sort of thing? First, I have to address a little pet peeve. You want to make a vampire BASE class, not a CORE class. Regardless of how many other people use the word "core" in place of "base," it is not the correct usage. "Core" implies the use of only the three core books: PHB, DMG, and MM. "Base" means a class that you can take from levels 1 to 20. Now, with that out of the way, on to your topic. I don't really think it's a good idea. I don't see exactly what the class could accomplish other than turning you into a vampire. If you want a vampire-themed class, I'd say make one as a prestige class. There are two vampire presige classes, one in the Book of Vile Darkness and one in Libris Mortis. They build on certain powers of the vampire. The "blood of the vampire" thing, at least in D&D parlance, doesn't make sense. They're undead, so they have no blood. Also, sorcerer is not actually based off of dragons. The sorcerer is simply a spontaneous caster. The fluff in the PHB suggested that they may be decended from dragons, and many supplements support that route, but it is not actually the "official" explanation, if you will. Your sorcerer could very well have been related to vampires in a way, if that's what you offer in your fluff and support with the proper spell selection. It's all a matter of specialization.
d_nychus 10-29-05, 12:32 PM	Besides, vampires suck. ... Well, you knew SOMEONE had to make that joke.
BlaineTog 10-29-05, 12:32 PM	First, I have to address a little pet peeve. You want to make a vampire BASE class, not a CORE class. Regardless of how many other people use the word "core" in place of "base," it is not the correct usage. "Core" implies the use of only the three core books: PHB, DMG, and MM. "Base" means a class that you can take from levels 1 to 20.Not necessarily. "Core" can imply "core of the character," as in that's what the character is before you get fancier with PrCs and whatnot. But w/e. Anyway, I've got something like that. My Vampire Template has a companion Vampire Paragon Class. Just five levels, but it does the job nicely I am thinking.
Wyrd Bearer 10-29-05, 12:32 PM	Well, its a shameless plug, but I did design a PrC that eventually becomes a variant of a vampire at the 10th level. Check my sig for the "Dragon of Blood," and see how that suits you.
Thubby 10-29-05, 02:50 PM	bad idea. nuf said
Seeker of Undeath 10-29-05, 06:18 PM	Well disregarding taking the 8-level long vampire template class, one could always try a Warlock. The right invocations make one very similar to a vampire in the right ways. Off the top of my head...Swarm Form (I think that was the name. If not you get the gist of the effect.), Spiderwalk, Utterdark Hideous Blow, and Charm do pretty well in emulating the bigger abilities. Hungry Darkness would be akin to summoning bats via Children of the Night. I've not thought of a way to mimic blood draining yet, but one also wouldn't have the vampire weaknesses. Fiendish Resilience is like a much lesser form of the vampire's Fast Healing. For the energy resistances just choose cold and electricity. Then there's the damage reduction. The numbers may not be so big, but it's a pretty good +0 LA knock-off that requires little effort. I think taking Leaps and Bounds and so forth can make up for the vampire's skill bonuses pretty well. The only thing I can't think of a good way to substitute for would be the bonus feats. If you're determined to make a transformative vampire-ish class I recommend taking notes from Dragon Disciple (DMG), Acolyte of the Skin (CA), and Fiend-Blooded (HoH). See what you like about each and how they accomplish what they're meant to. It shouldn't be hard at all to design a PrC for it. If you want to make a base class revolving around it...have a look at the Dread Necromancer (HoH) and adjust as appropriate for how you want it to perform. I imagine a vampire-oriented class would be less casting intensive, but it might have some.
Ruric 10-29-05, 10:50 PM	Hmm. I'm curius about this warlock class... Does anyone have a link to it and these "invocations"?
BlaineTog 10-29-05, 11:23 PM	Hmm. I'm curius about this warlock class... Does anyone have a link to it and these "invocations"?It's in "Complete Arcana," which isn't OGL.
Ruric 10-29-05, 11:26 PM	Complete arcane, eh? Well... I'm... Er... Poor! Yeah, and I can't afford the book, yes, that'll do nicely. So, um, someone post it here... Yes, that's good, heh heh... :cool:
KoreKore 10-29-05, 11:42 PM	you can't do that espically on the wotc forum boards however there is a class based on it call the alchemest http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=498216 it is loosely based but you might be able to get an idea.
Ruric 10-29-05, 11:47 PM	Thanks! I sort of get the idea, but I'm curious as the the actual invocation list. Do I REALLY have to go and spend my hard earned money on the book when I can buy pizza instead? :cool:
Molimo 10-29-05, 11:53 PM	Thanks! I sort of get the idea, but I'm curious as the the actual invocation list. Do I REALLY have to go and spend my hard earned money on the book when I can buy pizza instead? :cool: Yes. Yes you do.
Bane 10-29-05, 11:59 PM	As was mentioned, Complete Arcane isn't open content, so we can't post parts of it for you. Regarding the vampire base class, I think that it's a terrible idea from a flavor standpoint. How is someone supposed to learn how to be an undead? The fluff for sorcerers states that some sorcerers claim that their magic comes from draconic blood, which makes sense as far as rumors and boasts go. Sorcerers spontaneously cast arcane spells. Dragons spontaneously cast arcane spells. Obviously, there's a connection. Logically, this is incorrect, but if it gives sorcerers a little more prestige in the eyes of a peasant, I don't think the sorcerers are complaining. In mythology, vampires are generally created by other vampires (kind of like the Create Spawn ability). The cases where a vampire isn't created by another vampire are usually DM fiat types of things, such as Vlad Tepes making a deal with the Devil. I do like the idea of vampires growing more powerful with age and experience, perhaps a Prestige Class with being a vampire as a racial requirement. If a vampire's really old and powerful, you might look at the Evolved Undead acquired template from Libris Mortis, or the Master Vampire acquired template from the retired Monster Mayhem articles on the Wizards website. The Master Vampire template is 3.0, but it's not a difficult conversion. Ignore the statement regarding alignment, as that already applies to vampires in 3.5, change the damage reduction to 10/silver & good, and it's good to go.