Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kotthu 02-01-06, 06:59 PM	Cancer mage is frightening. I think that it truly needs to be revised. Why you might say? The answer is festering rage. Festering rage is a disease that sets in after a year of staying intensely angry at something or someone or the world in general. It rapidly drains your constitution and gives you bonuses to strength which are unlabelled and continue to accrue upon one another until your death. Normally these bonuses would not be enough for you to seek out an infection as you would be dead in a week or so. However, one of the cancer mage's abilities states that it ignores all HARMFUL effects of disease. This means that a level or two of cancer mage and a week in a cave can render a cancer mage with +14 strength without a single drawback to its name. Furthermore, the ability to cast contagion, allows the cancer mage to infect itself with this disease and voluntarily fail both saves involved. The only way to stop its strength progression would be to cast remove disease or a similar spell on it. So if it strikes the cleric of the group first &/or has spell resistance, the thing becomes incredibly hard to stop with a two level power game that can be attached to any character. I think this should be erattaed in order to remove the temptation of such an obvious abuse for such an insanely low trade off.
Rulebook 02-01-06, 07:06 PM	pfft. this has been done to death, and theres a cancer mage build on the CO boards. if you think thats game breaking, you need to see Pun-Pun.
Esponer 02-01-06, 07:09 PM	"Nothing breaks the game except Pun-Pun, because nothing can beat Pun-Pun." Is that it? I agree, the Cancer Mage seems to apparently have problems. That said, festering rage in itself is a bad idea.
Kotthu 02-01-06, 07:13 PM	Yeah, I've seen Pun-Pun, but he's more than two levels and it requires a template and some other stuff, as well as the assumption the gods don't smite you after the first round. this is more mundane and less openly "look at me I'm gonna eat your face" initially and can be done by anyone with the book and half a rock in their head.
Kotthu 02-01-06, 07:16 PM	Well, i have a quick fix for this hole in the game though. Rather than killing the rage as an option, just reword the cancer mage ability. I would suggest: The cancer mage is immune to disease. However, other creatures can still contract any disease that the cancer mage chooses to harbor by coming into contact with the cancer mage.
Dark Kyosuke 02-01-06, 07:18 PM	pfft. this has been done to death, and theres a cancer mage build on the CO boards. if you think thats game breaking, you need to see Pun-Pun. Ahem. Festering Anger Lad does in one PrC and one badly-termed use of the RAW what takes Pun-Pun one PrC, one dubious template, numerous splats, and many... "Interesting" readings of the RAW at hand. And the Cancer Mage that uses Festering Anger kind of builds itself. Just go full BAB from there and effectively nothing can stop you with what ammounts of infinite Strength. There's some amazingly broken things in my Soul Eater handbook too. And both the BoVD and the BoED have been sources of amazingly broken builds for years. There's a lot of things that are broken. The only thing Pun-Pun proves is that with an inverse ratio of the player's time against the editor's time, anything is possible.
Esponer 02-01-06, 07:25 PM	Well, i have a quick fix for this hole in the game though. Rather than killing the rage as an option, just reword the cancer mage ability. I would suggest: The cancer mage is immune to disease. However, other creatures can still contract any disease that the cancer mage chooses to harbor by coming into contact with the cancer mage. <shakes head> No, no. Festering rage can be broken without cancer mage. What you need is the following rule: "Whenever an ability states that you take a penalty, or take damage, as a consequence of gaining power or a bonus in some other manner, you cannot render yourself immune to that penalty/damage and still gain the bonus. Depending on the nature of the immunity, you may or may not be able to conditionally lift it to gain the effect."
Kyuketsukiouji 02-01-06, 07:26 PM	I think this should be erattaed in order to remove the temptation of such an obvious abuse for such an insanely low trade off. There's already something that removes the "obvious abuse" of what you mistakenly think is an "insanely low trade-off". First, the Disease Host ability is quite clear that yes, the Cancer Mage doesn't suffer negatives from diseases, "except for purely cosmetic ones". Or, in other words, you might not be sick, but you always look sick. Why is this a problem? Because one paragraph lower, you learn that "the Cancer Mage takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level if someone casts a cure disease spell or effect on him". So, what does that mean practically? It means anyone who knows even the slightest thing about healing can instantly spot a Cancer Mage, since they look sick. And what's the first reaction of most people who see someone else infected with a visibly recognisable ("dark boils across the skin", BoVD p30.) fatal disease that's known to send people in bezerk rages? They try to heal them. So basically, getting willingly infected with Festering Rage is like hanging a giant "cure me" sign over your head. I'm sure you'll have a fine time explaining that "no, I'm all right, I don't need to be healed of the life-treathening disease that makes me a murderous engine of destriction with insane strength, thank you kindly".
Rulebook 02-01-06, 07:26 PM	yes i know pun-pun is more than one level... he's 4 or 5. not prestige class levels, Character level. lol
Kotthu 02-01-06, 07:30 PM	That works as well, it cuts off a multitude of things. Although a clarification might be in order for negative energy.
Kyuketsukiouji 02-01-06, 07:31 PM	Well, i have a quick fix for this hole in the game though. Rather than killing the rage as an option, just reword the cancer mage ability. I would suggest: The cancer mage is immune to disease. However, other creatures can still contract any disease that the cancer mage chooses to harbor by coming into contact with the cancer mage. Nowhere in his description does it say he's not.
Kotthu 02-01-06, 07:41 PM	The way it's worded though it only mentions negative effects. Immune gets rid of everything.
Kyuketsukiouji 02-01-06, 08:04 PM	Why would someone with Contagion as a special ability consider being infectuous a disadvantage?
Eital 02-02-06, 10:24 AM	There's already something that removes the "obvious abuse" of what you mistakenly think is an "insanely low trade-off". First, the Disease Host ability is quite clear that yes, the Cancer Mage doesn't suffer negatives from diseases, "except for purely cosmetic ones". Or, in other words, you might not be sick, but you always look sick. Why is this a problem? Because one paragraph lower, you learn that "the Cancer Mage takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level if someone casts a cure disease spell or effect on him". So, what does that mean practically? It means anyone who knows even the slightest thing about healing can instantly spot a Cancer Mage, since they look sick. And what's the first reaction of most people who see someone else infected with a visibly recognisable ("dark boils across the skin", BoVD p30.) fatal disease that's known to send people in bezerk rages? They try to heal them. So basically, getting willingly infected with Festering Rage is like hanging a giant "cure me" sign over your head. I'm sure you'll have a fine time explaining that "no, I'm all right, I don't need to be healed of the life-treathening disease that makes me a murderous engine of destriction with insane strength, thank you kindly". Well... a) You have infinite strenght, i find it very hard that somebody can beat you... just kill anybody that comes near you :p. b) Disguise self, problem solved... c) Go kill a god, loot it's corpse... even harder to kill :p