Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shinigami42 08-13-07, 08:59 AM	The thief ran through the rain, a bag of coins clutched in his fist. He could hear the yell of guards behind him fading in the distance. Grinning to himself, he rounded a final corner to see a strange man in a hooded cloak facing him. As the thief hesitated, uncertain of what to make of this stranger, the cloaked man raises a strange card. Suddenly, the card burst into light and the thief found his arms and legs bound together. He could only stare in wonder as the stranger begins to drag him towards the guards http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs8/300W/i/2006/161/3/9/_Cardmaster_by_weerwolf.jpg Image from DeviantArt.com The Cardmaster Cardmasters are those skilled at trapping and redirecting magical energy through the use of cards. They use a deck of cards rather than a spellbook or holy symbol for their magic, and rely upon the luck of the draw to give them what they need. Creating a Cardmaster Abilities: Cardmasters use Cha to affect deck size and success rate, and use Dex for Card Manipulation as well as AC. Alignment: Any, although the random nature of card magic tends to attract chaotic practitioners. Hit Die: d6 Skill Points: 4+Int modifier Class Skills: Bluff(Cha), Concentration(Con), Diplomacy(Cha), Gather Information(Cha), Sense Motive(Wis), Sleight of Hand(Dex), Spellcraft(Int), Spot(Wis), Use Magic Device(Cha), Profession(Gambler)(Int) Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1 0 0 0 2 Lethal Cards, Card Magic 2 1 0 0 3 3 1 1 1 3 Card Manipulation 4 2 1 1 4 5 2 1 1 4 Card Affinity 6 3 2 2 5 7 3 2 2 5 Rapid Draw 8 4 2 2 6 9 4 3 3 6 Two of a Kind 10 5 3 3 7 11 5 3 3 7 Card Barrier 12 6/1 4 4 8 13 6/1 4 4 8 Wild Draw 14 7/2 4 4 9 15 7/2 5 5 9 Delay Card 16 8/3 5 5 10 17 8/3 5 5 10 Unleash Power 18 9/4 6 6 11 19 9/4 6 6 11 Reshuffle 20 10/5 6 6 12 Death's Hand Class Abilities Weapons and Armor Cardmasters are proficient with simple weapons and light armor. Lethal Cards (Ex) Cardmasters may use a normal deck of 52 cards as a lethal weapon. Treat Cards as shurikens that the Cardmaster has proficiency with. Card Magic (Su) The Cardmaster is able to craft a special deck capable of absorbing magic. Each card costs 15 gold to craft. When first made, the card does not hold any magic and will not respond to a Detect Magic spell or similar effect. If a spell is cast that contains the card within its area of effect, or that affects the Cardmaster, the Cardmaster may choose to imprint the spell upon one of her cards. If the spell is cast with the intent of imbuing the card, the card automatically absorbs the spell and is forever imprinted with that spell. (Ex. a friendly cleric casts Cure Light Wounds on one of the Cardmasters cards ) If the spell is hostile in nature or does not specifically target the card, a DC check of 10+Spell Level+Caster Level must be made. The Cardmaster may add her Cha bonus and Spellcraft skill to these checks. If the check is successful, the card is imprinted with the spell just as if a friendly source cast the spell. If the check fails, the card is irrevocably destroyed. Metamagic is ignored for the process of imbuing spells. Regardless of success or failure, the spell itself is not altered. An Imprinted fireball will still explode upon contact. The Spell level of any spell that the Cardmaster attempts to imprint cannot exceed 1/2 of her Cardmaster levels to a minimum of 1. Once a card is imprinted with a spell, the Cardmaster may add it to her deck. The maximum size of this deck is equal to 3+Cha modifier+2/level. If the newly imprinted card would exceed this number, one card must be destroyed in the deck or else the card will lose potency within 5 rounds. Furthermore, the deck may only contain 5 spell levels per level of the Cardmaster plus the Cardmaster's Cha bonus x 1/2 her level. (0 level spells do not count towards this limit). Every card in the deck is assigned a different number from 1-(number of cards in the deck) During battle, a Cardmaster may have up to 3 cards in his hand at any time. Every round, she has the option to return one of these cards to her deck in order to draw another. When a card is drawn, a random number is generated to determine the card drawn. If a repeat card is shown, simply use the next card in the deck until a usable card is located. The action of drawing is a Free Action. The Cardmaster does not need to physically interact with the deck in order to draw or return a card, simply having the deck in her possession is enough. When a card is drawn it appears in her hand, and a returned card vanishes to reappear in the deck. Every round, the Cardmaster may make a Standard Action to use one of her cards. The used card functions as the spell that is imprinted, using the Cardmaster's level as the Caster Level. Once the card is used, it vanishes into a pocket dimension for 24 hours, at which time it returns to the deck. The spell takes place instantaneously, ignoring material components costing less than 1 gold, somatic, and verbal components. If the spell has costly or rare material components (Such as the diamonds needed for Raise Dead) the Cardmaster instead loses 1/10th of that value in XP. The use of a card is accompanied by a soft light that lasts one second originating from the image on the card. Should the spell require a range of Touch, either the Cardmaster much touch her target or she must throw the card and make a successful attack. The Cardmaster begins play with a deck containing any 3 spells she is capable of casting. Card Manipulation (Ex) The Cardmaster prepares her deck with care each day. Therefore, she knows about where each card is located in her deck. The Cardmaster may add or subtract up to her Dex modifier (if positive) from the random number used to draw a card. Card Affinity (Su) The Cardmaster has been using her deck for quite a while now, and has formed a magical connection with it. As a move equivalent action, she may summon her deck from any location on the same plane as she is located. The deck appears in one of her hands provided she has at least one free, or in a nearby space if she does not. Rapid Draw (Ex) The Cardmaster is able to rapidly evaluate and return cards that appear in her hand. She may now return up to two cards per round to her deck rather than one. Two of a Kind (Su) The Cardmaster uses her magic to temporarily imprint the spell on one card onto another. In order to use Two of a Kind, the Cardmaster must have both the spell she wishes to duplicate and the spell she wishes to temporarily overwrite in her hand. The newly imprinted card functions as the copied card until either used or 1 round/level passes. Once Two of a Kind expires, the card returns to normal. If the spell was used during the duration, the card cannot be reused for 24 hours, just as if it were used normally Card Barrier (Su) As a move equivalent action, the Cardmaster may cause one random card in her deck to fly about, protecting her from damage. For one round she gains a temporary AC bonus equal to the spell level of the card. The card also automatically counterspells any spell that it would be able to counterspell were it cast by a wizard of equal level for that purpose. After the round, the card vanishes for 24 just as though it were used normally. Only one card may be used as a barrier at a time. Wild Draw (Ex) The Cardmaster may choose to, once per round, instantly draw a random card from her deck. The target of this card must be determined before drawing. Should the spell require a personal or touch range, the spell redirects itself to affect either the caster for a personal spell or the next person she touches for a touch spell, provided a target is touched within 2 rounds. If no target us touched, the spell is cast on the Cardmaster. The card is cast immediately when Wild Draw is used. Wild Draw may be used a number of times per day equal to her Charisma modifier. Delay Card (Ex) By exercising force of will over her card magic, a Cardmaster may delay the casting of any spell she uses by up to 1 round/3 levels. She may choose to trigger the spell herself before this, or to set a specific trigger that will set off the spell early. (Ex. A Delayed Lightning Bolt that triggers when an enemy steps into the hallway) While a card is being Delayed, it continuously glows as though it were being activated. It also adheres to flat, dry surfaces such as a wall or ceiling. Only one card may be Delayed at a time. Unleash Power (Su) The Cardmaster uses her magic to unleash the spell trapped within a card. She may either release this power while the card is in her hand or when the card is thrown. Upon releasing the spell, an explosion with radius 20' occurs. The explosion deals 1d10 damage for each level of the spell the card contained (Ref DC 20 for half damage). The card is instantly destroyed in this explosion. The magical force of causing this explosion renders the Cardmaster unable of using Card Magic for 1d4 rounds unless she makes a Will DC 20. Reshuffle (Ex) The Cardmaster may, once per day, return 1d10 cards to her deck that she has already used. If fewer cards have been used than are returned, all of them are returned and the extra numbers are ignored. The cards returned are recharged to full power and function as though they had returned naturally after 24 hours. Death's Hand (Su) Upon reaching level 20, a special card called Death's Hand appears in the Cardmasters deck. The card does not count toward the deck size or spell level totals for the deck. Death's Hand may not be targeted by Two of a Kind or Reshuffle. Death's Hand may not be used to imprint another card. If at any time, the Cardmaster has more than one Death's Hand in her possession, the extra card vanishes. Death's Hand may be drawn automatically from the Deck provided fewer than 3 cards are held. Death's Hand may do one of the following effects: 1)Deal 15d8 damage to all enemies within 35' 2)Instantly kill a single target with no more than 150 hp (10d6 damage on a successful Fort DC 35 or if the target has more than 150 hp) 3)Cast True Resurrection, ignoring the material component. 4)Fully restore the HP of all allies within 10' Extra Notes Multiple Decks It is possible to be in possession of multiple decks. However, only one may be attuned to you at a time. In order to change the deck you are using, all cards must be present in both decks(none may be in the pocket dimension they vanish to upon use). The Cardmaster must spend 1 hour studying the new deck. Upon completion, the new deck is attuned to the Cardmaster and the old no longer is. If the Cardmaster possesses a Hand of Death, the card will transfer over to the new deck instantly. Losing and Replacing Decks If a deck is lost, the Cardmaster immediately becomes aware of its location, provided she is currently attuned to that deck. She knows who bears the deck, where they are located, and the condition the deck is in. If the deck is destroyed, the Cardmaster must start a new deck following the rules for creating new cards. New spells must be imprinted into these newly created cards. Feats Cardmasters may not take metamagic or item creation feats, owing to the fact that they do not wield spells like normal casters do, but rather redirect captured magic.
Amaril 08-13-07, 12:50 PM	I like the idea. I think Concentration are Diplomacy necessary skills for a spell-slinging card player. I also think 2+Int is too low for skill points. Simply stating that the cards are treated as shuriken would help with clarifying the rules for using them as a weapon, especially with regards to drawing them like ammunition, applying appropriate damage, and treating them as thrown weapons rather than as a crossbow for the purpose of weapon ability enhancements. I would also grant the class some sort of Exotic Weapon Proficiency for the cards, otherwise they suffer a -4 penalty for an improvised weapon. (By the way, a deck of cards would make an excellent legacy item using the rules in Weapons of Legacy). I would simplify the Card Magic system to follow the model of an artificer's infusions (Eberron Campaign Setting) which would allow the character to infuse a spell of choice into any card on the fly. This system also already has a model for governing spell levels. For spell-effects that are a ranged-touch spell, I would allow it to hit a touch AC to deliver the spell without damage from the cards as a weapon or against normal AC to apply damage from the cards in addition to the spell effect. Using the Delay Card ability as a trap should probably follow the rules for making traps. Card Barrier seems to be a bit powerful. Even classes that grant DR don't offer DR as high as this ability does. I would make the ability stackable at various levels with a fixed increase of +1 every 4 or 5 levels. For Death's Hand, I think the effects can be outdone by a large number of spells/infusions that could be imbued on the card. Heck, even weapon abilities could be enchanted on the deck as a weapon.
Shinigami42 08-13-07, 02:06 PM	I like the idea. I think Concentration are Diplomacy necessary skills for a spell-slinging card player. I also think 2+Int is too low for skill points. Alright, I added Concentrate and Diplomacy to the list of class skills and increased skill points to 4+Int modifier Simply stating that the cards are treated as shuriken would help with clarifying the rules for using them as a weapon, especially with regards to drawing them like ammunition, applying appropriate damage, and treating them as thrown weapons rather than as a crossbow for the purpose of weapon ability enhancements. I would also grant the class some sort of Exotic Weapon Proficiency for the cards, otherwise they suffer a -4 penalty for an improvised weapon. (By the way, a deck of cards would make an excellent legacy item using the rules in Weapons of Legacy). Simply using them as shurikens didn't occur to me at the time, but now I see that it is probably the best choice. I had intended for the cards to be a weapon the Cardmaster is proficient in using, so now I have that proficiency mentioned. I would simplify the Card Magic system to follow the model of an artificer's infusions (Eberron Campaign Setting) which would allow the character to infuse a spell of choice into any card on the fly. This system also already has a model for governing spell levels. Unfortunately, I do not have the Eberron Campaign Setting, so I am not quite sure of what you are referring to. By the sound of it, they would allow the Cardmaster to imbue spells into cards the moment he needs them. That goes contrary to the idea of a "prepared deck" that I had for the Cardmaster. For spell-effects that are a ranged-touch spell, I would allow it to hit a touch AC to deliver the spell without damage from the cards as a weapon or against normal AC to apply damage from the cards in addition to the spell effect. Spell imbued cards do not deal damage. I am sorry if I did not make this clear Using the Delay Card ability as a trap should probably follow the rules for making traps. I had intended for the Delay Card ability to function similar to a Delayed Blast fireball with an added Trigger effect. It would require little skill beyond normal Card Magic to set the "trap" so requiring checks to create it seems pointless. Card Barrier seems to be a bit powerful. Even classes that grant DR don't offer DR as high as this ability does. I would make the ability stackable at various levels with a fixed increase of +1 every 4 or 5 levels. I see what you mean. I changed the ability to add +1 AC per spell level of the card used. I kept the Counterspell part in place. For Death's Hand, I think the effects can be outdone by a large number of spells/infusions that could be imbued on the card. Heck, even weapon abilities could be enchanted on the deck as a weapon. I removed the extended delay on Death's Hand. However, the real power of the card is that it can produce 4 different spells from one card, allowing the Cardmaster to adapt more readily to a situation. As it is supposed to be the most powerful Cardmaster ability, I also added in the ability to automatically draw it while it is in the deck. Thank you for your criticism and suggestions, if any more occur to you please let me know.
IdleAltruism 08-13-07, 02:34 PM	The base attack bonus is off its either poor or average not inbetween. This class looks to be way to powerful. Being able to cast ANY spell you come by from any spell list an almost unlimited amount of times per day late level. The abuse looks to be more high level then anything. But still, being able to cast any spell your party has access to is just to much. I like the idea but it needs alot of tweaking. Personally I'd make this into a PrC, it would be simpler by using an existing spellcasting class. Something like the Rune caster from Race of stone. For the class itself some things are vague, how does this work with meta-magic? What are the cards DC saves based on? Can you steal other cardmasters cards like a wizard can do with spellbooks? Can you take item creation feats or metamagic feats?
Amaril 08-13-07, 02:38 PM	Can you have more than one deck? What happens if you lose your deck? Can you simply replace it? This class gives me an idea for a class that uses the Three-Dragon Ante deck and has spell-like abilities associated with each dragon type, mortal card, or dragon deity card.
Shinigami42 08-13-07, 02:51 PM	It is possible to be in possession of multiple decks. However, only one may be attuned to you at a time. In order to change the deck you are using, all cards must be present in both decks(none may be in the pocket dimension they vanish to upon use). The Cardmaster must spend 1 hour studying the new deck. Upon completion, the new deck is attuned to the Cardmaster and the old no longer is. If the Cardmaster possesses a Hand of Death, the card will transfer over to the new deck instantly. As for decks being lost, provided the Cardmaster is attuned with the lost deck, she can find it anywhere and instantly knows where it is. If the deck is destroyed, the Cardmaster must replace it with a new deck, much like if a Wizard were to lose her spellbook. As for the concerns raised by Idle Altruism: The base attack bonus is off its either poor or average not inbetween. I am sorry about the BaB, I am relatively new to 3.5 DnD so I was not aware that there were set progression that needed to be followed. This class looks to be way to powerful. Being able to cast ANY spell you come by from any spell list an almost unlimited amount of times per day late level. The abuse looks to be more high level then anything. But still, being able to cast any spell your party has access to is just to much. I must disagree with you there. At level 20, the Cardmaster recieves 100 spell levels, not counting the boost for high Cha. At level 20 a Wizard gets 180, a Sorcerer gets 270, and a cleric gets 195. In return for receiving about half as many spell levels, the Cardmaster gets the ability to cast any spell she is exposed to. For the class itself some things are vague, how does this work with meta-magic? What are the cards DC saves based on? Can you steal other cardmasters cards like a wizard can do with spellbooks? Can you take item creation feats or metamagic feats? Meta-magic is ignored when imbuing cards. A maximized fireball is treated as a regular fireball for the purpose of imbuing cards. DC saves are based on the level of the Cardmaster and her Cha stat if applicable. A Cardmaster may steal a deck of cards, but as Cardmasters can sense the location of their deck, this is not very profitable. Furthermore, Cardmasters may not attune themselves to a deck that is already in use. They may not take item creation or metamagic feats. This is because the Card Master is not truly using her own power when she uses the cards, but rather the trapped magic of other casters. Once again, thanks you for your comments.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 08-13-07, 04:52 PM	Cool idea! Might want to give him Three Dragon Ante feats as bonus feats from the web enhancement
Athaal 08-13-07, 05:05 PM	I love the idea of having many reusable 9th level spells at your disposal. I think the whole drawing element is great and adds some more strategy for the player. great class!
IdleAltruism 08-13-07, 07:32 PM	I must disagree with you there. At level 20, the Cardmaster recieves 100 spell levels, not counting the boost for high Cha. At level 20 a Wizard gets 180, a Sorcerer gets 270, and a cleric gets 195. In return for receiving about half as many spell levels, the Cardmaster gets the ability to cast any spell she is exposed to. the deck may only contain 5 spell levels per level of the Cardmaster plus the Cardmaster's Cha bonus x 1/2 her level The way this reads at 20th level a cardmaster that had 30 CHA could hold 1100 spell levels 100+10x10=1100. I would suggest removing the x 1/2 level. I believe the class needs more special abilities and something like a bard progression of spells, opposed to using spells off everyone elses list. I'm not saying use bard spells, but something like that 1-6th level spell progression. Because right now it still seems to abusable. As I mentioned before I think this would make a better PrC. But if you really want it as a base class I would look at the factotum from the dungeon scape and model it after something like that or bard.
Shinigami42 08-13-07, 11:11 PM	The way this reads at 20th level a cardmaster that had 30 CHA could hold 1100 spell levels 100+10x10=1100. I would suggest removing the x 1/2 level. I am sorry if I made this unclear. The x1/2 level portion only applies to the charisma bonus. Therefore, your 30 CHA Cardmaster would have 100+(10x10). this would result in 200 spell levels. A 30 CHA Cardmaster gets 100 bonus spell levels. A 30 Int wizard gets 124 bonus spell levels. Though this does throw off the ratio of about 1:2 with the basic Cardmaster:Other Casters, the difference still leans in favor of normal casters as far as spell levels go. A possibility would be to reduce the multiplier to 1/3.
Evilholyguy 08-14-07, 01:23 PM	I like this idea. im gonna use it to kill one of my friends whos a LE vampire monk with to many magical junk that hes near godly at lvl 11 :evillaugh
Shinigami42 08-16-07, 03:12 PM	:bump:
Shinigami42 08-18-07, 07:08 PM	:bump:
Shinigami42 09-16-07, 06:40 PM	And the third and final :bump:
Squirrel_Lord 09-16-07, 08:17 PM	I would like to give you my praise and gratitude. I love this class! At school, I'm the guy that always has a deck of cards on him. I even bought a deck of plastic cards so I wouldn't have to replace them every two years. For me, this is the ultimate class. Thank you so much. I don't see any glaring flaws in it, and I'm going to try and convince my next DM to let me use this.
CobaltDeathWolf 09-16-07, 08:25 PM	heh heh heh, i gotta tell ya man, when i first saw the title, my first thought was card captor, but this is actually pretty cool, original too good on ya, mate!
Shinigami42 09-17-07, 09:54 AM	I am in the middle of playtesting this class with my current campaign. So far nothing major has come up, though the class is decidedly less random at lower levels, since the deck size is barely larger than the hand size.
Dex 09-18-07, 07:56 AM	I muchly like this class, so much so I'm thinking of taking levels of this for a Map of the Planes character. There's a couple of things I'd like to query/contribute. Card Barrier ...The card also automatically counterspells any spell that it would be able to counterspell were it cast by a wizard of equal level for that purpose... Normally a wizard needs to roll 1d20+CL to see if they can counter a spell. Does the automatic counterspelling assume the Cardmaster rolls a 10? So it automatically counters any spells cast as long as Spell level =< Card level AND Caster's CL =< Cardmaster level+10? Or should this be they may make a dispel check (roll 1d20+Cardcaster level against DC 11+opponent's CL) as a free action against any spell that targets them? Secondly for the Unleash Power ability, I'd like to suggest that the damage is energy of a type picked by the Cardcaster. Lastly, I'm going to suggest some Cardcaster feats based on Tarot and other cards. Jack of Hearts [Card] Your cards are known for charming people's hearts. Prerequisites: Card Magic, Spellcraft 5 ranks Benefit: You create a card that has been imprinted with the Charm Person spell. The card does not count toward the deck size or spell level totals for the deck. To cast this card, you have to hand it to the person to be charmed, whereby the card activates and vanishes as normal. The Fool [Card] You have invented a card to cause laughter. Prerequisites: Card Magic, Spellcraft 5 ranks Benefit: You create a card that has been imprinted with the Tasha's Hideous Laughter spell. The card does not count toward the deck size or spell level totals for the deck. PS, was this class inspired by Tubalcaine from Hellsing?
Shinigami42 09-20-07, 04:51 PM	For Card barrier, the Cardmaster would roll the d20 just as a wizard would. For Unleash Power, I had always just thought of it as raw magical power. I suppose having typed spells (fireball, acid arrow, etc.) explode with that type of magic could be a viable change. As for bonus card feats, it goes somewhat against the feel of the class. This is not based around Tarot, but rather in creating unique cards through capturing enemies. I have not familiar with Hellsing beyond reading its synopsis, so no it was not.
poopmouth187 09-20-07, 09:30 PM	I like this class. I'm just kind of confused on how you generate the card drawn from your deck and if the cards in your deck must all be spell cards or the deck has just regular cards which you can also draw.
Shinigami42 09-21-07, 09:37 AM	All the cards in your magical deck are spell cards. to generate the card, generate a random number(die) for example: I have a small deck with only 4 cards in it. These are 2 magic missile, shield, and cure light wounds. To generate which card I draw, I place them in a list: 1.magic missile 2.magic missile 3.shield 4.cure light wounds I would roll a d4 and draw the corresponding card.
poopmouth187 09-21-07, 03:39 PM	Ok i get it now. Also, how many cards can you have in one deck? I'm suspecting 52 right?
Aryxbez 09-21-07, 04:50 PM	Only thing disappointing about this class is the fact that it doesn't use real playing cards. I was also hoping this for my hexer in Deadlands. Pretty much a class from a wild west RPG those who use magic with playing cards.
Aerodyth 09-21-07, 05:19 PM	Just thought that you should add Profession (Gambler) to the skill list. The Cardmaster is effectively gambling through the nature of his magic by what he draws.
Shinigami42 09-22-07, 01:39 AM	The maximum size of this deck is equal to 3+Cha modifier+2/level. The normal deck of cards that a Cardmaster can use as a weapon is a deck of playing cards. The profession idea sounds reasonable, I will add that in.
erebfaer 09-22-07, 10:12 AM	With the Wild Draw ability, could you sit around for a for a few days and rack up multiple touch spells? Because you could do that for a while then poke someone for a lot of damage...
Shinigami42 09-23-07, 01:06 AM	Wild Draw is cast instantly upon being used. Reading the wording, this was not clear, so I clarify it.
AnonymousInternets 09-23-07, 01:51 AM	Eeep!:eek: I was actually making a class called Shuffler that used playing cards as the theme! The mechanics are pretty different, and its based on the use of a real deck, but... oof... Crap.
Aerodyth 09-23-07, 06:36 PM	I was actually making a class called Shuffler that used playing cards as the theme! The mechanics are pretty different, and its based on the use of a real deck, but... oof... And this stops you how? Lord knows how many ninja variants within the past weeks have popped up. I enjoy alternative magic styles and would be interested in what you devised.
Shinigami42 09-24-07, 11:37 AM	It would be interesting to see a playing card based class, especially if it is as well made as your other class. Back on topic, does anyone else have suggestions for the class?
Shinigami42 09-28-07, 09:45 AM	Time for another :bump:
Dex 09-29-07, 09:32 AM	I just thought of a couple of equipment items a Cardcaster might be interested in. The first is the blank cards onto which Cardcasters imprint spells. Casting Cards These non-magical cards are nonetheless coated and printed with magical reagents. Cardcasters frequently make these for other Cardcasters that have less idle time to prepare their own decks. These are the cards that Card Magic is imprinted on, and are sold at double their creation cost (like so many other items). Cost: 30gp, Weight: Negligible. Deck of Infinite Cards This magical pack of cards can produce as many ordinary cards as the user needs for up to 1 hour at a time. All cards are marked by rank, suit and deck number (if more than 52 cards are needed). The dealer of the deck can command any cards drawn to shuffle, collect, deal as needed and can make any unneeded cards disappear back into the pack. A Cardcaster can use these cards as shuriken via the Lethal Cards ability, producing as many as they need. A successful Profession (Gambler) check at DC 25 will allow them to control which exact cards are dealt. Aura: Moderate Conjuration, CL: 7, Price: 10,480*gp, Weight 0.1lb, Craft Wondrous Item, Minor Creation, Prestidigitation. * Cost based on use-activated Minor Creation and Prestidigitation divided by 5 since it can only be used to make playing cards. Sample decks Decks can be purchased with the standard costs for spell casting in the Player's Handbook, plus 30gp/spell for premade cards or 15gp/card if the Cardcaster makes their own. Recovery Deck This deck is useful for restoring injuries after a battle. Card No# Spell Name Level 1 Cure Moderate Wounds 2 2 Cure Serious Wounds 3 3 Cure Light Wounds, Mass 5 4 Cure Serious Wounds 3 5 Cure Moderate Wounds 2 6 Vigor 3 7 Remove Blindness/Deafness 3 8 Regenerate 7 This deck can be used by any Cardcaster of 14th level or higher. This deck costs 2,080gp for a casting of all the spells plus the cost of the cards (240gp or 120gp).
Shinigami42 09-29-07, 12:04 PM	These are very good ideas. It seems that the deck of cards is somewhat expensive for a deck that simply doesn't run out, but that can be adjusted. Also, your "sample deck" would require level 14 to use, since it includes a level 7 spell. Apart from that, this is a very good idea. I am going to start working on a list of Card items for this class.
Dex 09-29-07, 10:22 PM	Thanks for picking up on the 14th level limit, it is fixed. I was going to divide the base cost (52,200gp) by 10, to give 5,220gp, but considering that it produces an infinite number of shuriken, as well as giving any kind of proficient gambler a 100% chance of winning a game of cards I figured maybe for fluff reasons it should be a little expensive (and hell, a deck like that should be a kind of banned item given how much it could mess up a casino).
Shinigami42 09-30-07, 11:13 AM	Could be a black market item.
Dex 10-01-07, 03:15 AM	More feats for Cardcasters, are they ok? If so I have some more that extend these. Basically, without metamagic or item creation feats only utility and combat-based feats seem of any use to this class. Improved Lethal Cards [General] Your cards are more lethal than normal Prerequisites: Lethal Cards, BAB 3+ Benefit: The damage dealt by your thrown cards increases to 1d4. Normal: Your thrown cards deal 1d2 damage. Arcane Cards [General] You can wound even creatures resistant to harm with your thrown cards. Prerequisites: Improved Lethal Cards, BAB 5+ Benefit: Your thrown cards are treated as magical for overcoming damage reduction. Enchanted Cards [General] You can tie magical effects to cards you throw from your Casting Cards deck. Prerequisites: Spellcraft 10 ranks, Lethal Cards Benefit: You can throw the cards you use to cast spells from as weapons, as per your Lethal Cards ability. However, they have an enchantment bonus on the attack roll equal to the level of the spell contained in the card. Throwing a card in this manner causes it to return to your deck "used" in the same manner as casting the spell would, and can't be used again as normal (excepting the Reshuffle ability).
Shinigami42 10-01-07, 09:34 AM	Since the deck of cards are treated as shurikens, they can be enchanted normally. Therefore, it would be pointless to take the Arcane Cards feat, since a +1 deck would achieve the same thing, I believe.
Dex 10-01-07, 06:27 PM	But you can't make a +1 deck of cards, or a +1 card, since it's not a weapon.
vorpo 10-01-07, 06:45 PM	Some suggestions/questions about card magics: 1) against hostile spells, you should use a readied action to absorb the spells much the same way counterspell works. 2) To absorb hostile spell, the cardmaster should make a spellcraft chk + class level against a DC of 10 + spell level + caster lvl 3) You should not be able to absorb area spell unless you are the center of effect or initial target of spell. 4) When you return a card to deck to draw another, do you return it to the bottom of the deck? 5) A card may be used only once per day unless reshuffled? 6) With a very limited caster, you can consider giving it even a d8 imo I like the idea of this class in general. It's like being a duelist of MtG.
Dex 10-01-07, 09:50 PM	A card may be used only once per day unless reshuffled? Yes. When you return a card to deck to draw another, do you return it to the bottom of the deck? Not Really. It goes into a 'discard' pile, and is no longer usable (without reshuffling) which then gets added back to your deck when you regain spells. EDIT: A prestige class, card related spells and more feats coming soon!
Shinigami42 10-04-07, 01:28 PM	When you return a card to deck to draw another, do you return it to the bottom of the deck? If you are simply drawing another, and have not actually USED the card, it is reshuffled into the deck A card may be used only once per day unless reshuffled? Once the card is used, it cannot be used again unless returned to the deck with the Reshuffle ability. But you can't make a +1 deck of cards, or a +1 card, since it's not a weapon. The normal deck of cards used as a weapon by the Cardmaster IS a weapon. In the same way that you can have +1 shurikens, you can have a +1 deck of cards. Note that the casting deck CANNOT be enchanted like this.
vorpo 10-04-07, 02:07 PM	Lethal Cards (Ex) Cardmasters may use a normal deck of 52 cards as a lethal weapon. Treat Cards as shurikens that the Cardmaster has proficiency with. Does this deck have anything to do with the magic deck? If not, I don't see this ability fits at all flavor-wise. Suddenly a thrown weapon ability from a magic user. Card Magic (Su) The Cardmaster is able to craft a special deck capable of absorbing magic. Each card costs 15 gold to craft. When first made, the card does not hold any magic and will not respond to a Detect Magic spell or similar effect. 15 gp per card might be too much especially for starting characters? And who crafts it? Cardmaster himself or some other craftsman? These cards seems too limited to be able to buy anywhere.
Shinigami42 10-04-07, 02:29 PM	The normal thrown deck does not have anything to do with the magic deck. I just added it in for flavor, as a card mage who suddenly pulls out a crossbow doesn't quite flow right The cards must be crafted by a Cardmaster. It doesn't matter if the crafter is the one who ends up using them or not, however.
vorpo 10-04-07, 03:01 PM	The cards must be crafted by a Cardmaster. It doesn't matter if the crafter is the one who ends up using them or not, however. Does it require specific craft skills or you just say "I'm making this many cards" and boom it's there... ?
Phelf_Der_Zemit 10-04-07, 04:20 PM	you could always make a gamble/approriat skill check to see if you can lessing the cost of craft the card. and I agree that 15 gold is alot for a starting char, exspecaily since it's probably only gona hold a cure wound, light spell for most of the time or maybe if he's lucky magic missle. though i guess they are also a type of deffensive magic that may be used to great extent if you know what your doing, though it does seem a hefty toll for a level one char.
vorpo 10-04-07, 04:51 PM	You can consider this: having 2 types of cards; first type cost a lot less but is one-use only; the 2nd type is permanent the way you have it now at 15gp or whatnot. This might be easier for your starting char to build a deck... seriously... how many 15 gps does a first lvl char of any kind get to make a deck...
Shinigami42 10-05-07, 11:46 AM	Well, I just gave the Cardmaster in my campaign a few starting cards, so it is not surprising that I missed this. I have added rules for a starting deck, much like the wizard gets starting spells.
vorpo 10-05-07, 01:15 PM	One flavoring flaw I just realized. The cards themselves are not magical, as such, it doesn't really make sense that they hold spells permanently (Permanency spell is way too high level for this purpose). As such, to have cards holding permanent spells might better be magical on their own. So, starting off with non permanent spell-holding cards that cost little might be more logical. But it isn't a really big deal... just a thought
Shinigami42 10-05-07, 05:55 PM	I am going to keep all Spell Cards permanant, since it would be awkward at first level to only use the equivalent of scrolls. The idea was that the magic to permanently trap the spell came from the Cardmaster, much in the same way that a spell scribed into a spellbook is slightly magical.
vorpo 10-05-07, 05:58 PM	Ok, give us some updates after you playtest then
plaguewraith 12-10-07, 01:52 PM	of the top ideas ive seen, maybe you should add some rogue like skills, a quick fingered gambler is a good idea did this idea come from X-men's character Gambit, his primary weapon is a deck of cards
TarotWarrior 12-11-07, 05:14 PM	First things first: A card based spellcasting class? I love you. The only thing I don't really understand is this line: The Cardmaster begins play with a deck containing any 3 spells she is capable of casting. What exactly do you mean by 'capable of casting'? From what I read, it seems like the cardmaster dosen't really have a spell list she can access independantly from her cards?
Shinigami42 12-12-07, 08:57 AM	By "capable of casting" I meant "level 1 or 0" I believe I stated that this class can draw upon any spell list provided somebody casts the spell on his card. I wasn't really thinking of Gambit when I made this, but I suppose it fits. From playtesting, this seems like a balanced class so far, but it requires a great deal of luck at higher levels.
TarotWarrior 12-12-07, 03:45 PM	Oh, alright, I see what you mean now. I was understanding something different from the way I read it. But I love this class. Seriously. I'm not really sure if custom classes fly with my DM though...