Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nicholas the Paladin 02-23-07, 03:25 AM	Hi Guys, We are in the startup of making a new group from level 1. One of our friends is planning to be a centaur and wants to take barbarian levels later on. It's the centaur class from 'Races of the Wild'. This means that he has to take 6 levels of centaur, before he can go on in barbarian (at least that's what the player said). Is this a good idea? Our group will consist of: - warblade (warrior from ToB) - cleric of Kelemvor (FR) - wizard - beguiler - rogue (swashbuckler) ... and a Centaur (also a warrior role) From the top of my head, the centaur: - gets 4 BAB over 6 levels - good reflex and fort saves - a lot of STR and CON increase, with large size at 6th level - movement from 40 to 50 ft - extra hoove attacks (2 in total) - almost no skillpoints - no extra special abilities -.....and it has *no* armour proficiency I'm curious what this migt do to the balance of our group (the centaur looks strong, but weak on the other hand) besides that; I'm wondering of this doesn't bring 'challenges' of a social roleplay nature and challenges in a practical sense (how does a centaur go up a ladder in a dugeon, how to carry it when it is unconsious)
runestar 02-23-07, 03:38 AM	Centaurs make very good fighters, IMO. The str and con bonuses more than makes up for your lost bab and HD. The loss of skills points will be hard felt though, but at least you still get listen and spot as racial class skills. The good reflex and will saves, together with your racial dex and wis bonuses, will go a long way in improving a barb's traditional weak saves. It is a pity that you cannot take multiattack. However, races of faerun does clarify that centaurs can take the spirited charge feat without meeting the prereqs and applying the feat to their own melee attacks. So you are looking at a very potent charger build, especially with a lance, power attack and possibly shock trooper. I say for it, since it is one of the few monsters who are actually worth their ECL.:)
Nicholas the Paladin 02-23-07, 04:25 AM	I have a few more concrete questions: - can a centaur take a barbarian level at 2nd charcter level, in order to gain medium armour proficiency? - does anybody have experience with playing (with) a centaur: what about the possibel social and practical implications I talked about?
MaverickWolf 02-23-07, 04:41 AM	I have a few more concrete questions: - can a centaur take a barbarian level at 2nd charcter level, in order to gain medium armour proficiency? - does anybody have experience with playing (with) a centaur: what about the possibel social and practical implications I talked about? 1.) No. The rules for monster classes clearly state that the monster class must be completed BEFORE any other classes can be taken. 2.) Socially, it will probably not be an overly large problem, though he may have an issue getting into some houses. Centaurs are not known as vicious creatures, although people might take a second look, as they're not commonly seen either. Practical implications are another story. A centaur is physically in capable of climbing a ladder, or at least it would be exceedingly difficult at best. Getting a centaur through some areas could require some ingenuity. Carrying it is no different from carrying anyone else. The problem is that it'll probably be a much higher load than anyone can carry (unless you've got a wizard with Tenser's Floating Disc.
Finfreeze 02-23-07, 04:58 AM	Centaurs are fairly strong for their ECL, and they're typically good, so no real problems there. You're just going to have to become very familiar with the natural tendencies and possibly the squeezing rules. As for the armor proficiencies, I suppose you're just going to have to make do with leather barding and natural armor for now.
runestar 02-23-07, 11:44 AM	Actually, I do not think there is anything in the rules about climbing which penalizes a centaur's climb checks. Apart from lacking climb as a class skill, it should be able to scale ladders and other surfaces as well as any other PC.:) As for armour, with their +4 dex and NA, you should be able to survive on masterwork studded leather barding.:) I don't see much of a social issue, since they are good by nature, and so should be fairly welcome in most places. Their appearance might attract some attention, but I doubt it would be any of the unwelcome sort. Practically, the only drawback I can see is their large size, which might be tricky in some dungeon crawls. Guess you better work with your dm on this one.
RavingDork 02-23-07, 12:04 PM	What do Centaurs get? +8 Strength? When a creature is that strong they can likely lift their entire bodies up a ladder using just their arms (assuming the ladder itself is strong enough to support their weight).
Tectorman 02-23-07, 12:05 PM	Actually, I do not think there is anything in the rules about climbing which penalizes a centaur's climb checks. Apart from lacking climb as a class skill, it should be able to scale ladders and other surfaces as well as any other PC.:) ... Practically, the only drawback I can see is their large size, which might be tricky in some dungeon crawls. Guess you better work with your dm on this one. Technically, you are correct. However, Races of the Wild does say that (not an exact quote) realistically infeasible actions (such as a Centaur climbing a ladder) should not be allowed regardless of their Climb modifier and that such in-game logic decisions ultimately rest with the DM. I don't know who said it, but (not an exact quote) "Never tell a PC 'No,' just give the task a radically high DC."
FrostHammer 02-23-07, 12:13 PM	Even with the +8 strength, it is unlikely for a Centaur to lift himself up like that. Centaurs weigh over a ton.
runestar 02-23-07, 12:31 PM	I don't know who said it, but (not an exact quote) "Never tell a PC 'No,' just give the task a radically high DC." I like your style...:D
Nicholas the Paladin 02-23-07, 12:32 PM	with all these boosts, it almost seems as if we need to worry that this centaur might overshadow the rest. We'll see.
Finfreeze 02-23-07, 12:35 PM	Actually, I do not think there is anything in the rules about climbing which penalizes a centaur's climb checks. Apart from lacking climb as a class skill, it should be able to scale ladders and other surfaces as well as any other PC.:) It's not explicitly mentioned in the centaur entry, but the Natural Tendencies rules should apply. Natural Tendencies: Some creatures simply aren’t made for certain types of physical activity. If it seems clear that a particular creature simply is not made for a particular physical activity, that creature takes a –8 penalty on skill checks that defy its natural tendencies. In extreme circumstances the creature fails the check automatically.
RavingDork 02-23-07, 12:37 PM	Even with the +8 strength, it is unlikely for a Centaur to lift himself up like that. Centaurs weigh over a ton. Typical Centaurs weigh 2,100 pounds according to the Monster Manual. An average centaur has 18 strength and is a large sized quadruped. That means his maximum load is 900 lbs. A centaur would have to have at least a Strength score of 24 to carry his own body weight (assuming all thsoe extra muscles didn't make him even heavier). So...I guess you're right. :embarrass
Drag0nUL 02-23-07, 01:18 PM	Centaurs are pretty good warrior characters. They have pretty high Str. and Con bonuses, particularly important for a melee class. And unlike many other monsters, their starting ECL comes mostly from HDs and not LA, meaning they will have decent HP as well. One of my most enjoyable non-standard characters was a centaur fighter/cavalier(my DM house ruled that being a centaur counts as being mounted), and I can't say it affected the group's balance too much. He was probably the most powerful non-spellcasting character in an open field battle, but much of this changed in indoors/dungeon encounters where he lacked the space to execute his ride-by attacks. As for social roleplay challenges, they are similar to those encountered when playing any unusual race( people regarding you with distrust, fear or even outright hostility). The only serious drawback when playing a centaur is it's unique anatomy(actually my centaur cavalier met it's end at the bottom of a pit trap which he was unable to climb out of; the fact that the rest of the party died while fighting the BBEG at the upper end of the pit trap didn't help much either;) ). Some tasks are outright impossible(like climbing a ladder). while others require just a bit more ingenuity.
DwarfPcfan 02-23-07, 01:21 PM	If you want to build a good centaur character I'd drop barbarian, 1-Your party should at least have a secondary healer 2-Pure melee wil easily be handled by the warblade 3-Skills can be taken over by the rogue If I were you I'd go paladin, seriously take the charging smite alternate ability (since a paladin's mount is completely useless to you) and spirited charge, with your wallop strenght, you'll kill anything with a single blow. Plus wisdom and charisma will help your paladin abilities further Spirited charge, rhino rush, divine sacrifice, smite evil, charging smite, valourous weapon +8 strenght:cool: :D Yep I'd go with paladin instead of barbarian
Chimaera2000 02-23-07, 05:24 PM	A centaur warrior should be. Particularly if he plays to his race's strengths and focuses on mounted combat, he'll excel in any open-field battle and be limited in a dungeon. In a balanced campaign where both situations arise, he'll be fine. If he does end up gimped, it'll be because of his class selection (like playing a fighter :yuck:), not because of his race.
Leress 02-23-07, 05:40 PM	If you want to build a good centaur character I'd drop barbarian, 1-Your party should at least have a secondary healer 2-Pure melee wil easily be handled by the warblade 3-Skills can be taken over by the rogue If I were you I'd go paladin, seriously take the charging smite alternate ability (since a paladin's mount is completely useless to you) and spirited charge, with your wallop strenght, you'll kill anything with a single blow. Plus wisdom and charisma will help your paladin abilities further Spirited charge, rhino rush, divine sacrifice, smite evil, charging smite, valourous weapon +8 strenght:cool: :D Yep I'd go with paladin instead of barbarian Someone didn't read the OP, it's his friend with that character. Besides Barbarian is good enough their really is no point of playing a paladin.
Maraxus 02-23-07, 09:27 PM	I'm playing a Centaur over here in the Core Coliseum, it's definitly not to strong on ECL6, rather a good 6 class level build will be stronger as a traditional fighter. But one will see, how this goes on the higher levels, usually, there he should become stronger. However, I'm tring to be overpowered, so I'm taking Psi-Warrior. I thing Spirited Charge, Ride-By attack, Psionic Charge and Psionic Lion's charge all coming together should be world-shattering.