Cerebremancer/Mystic Theurge gestalt [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cerebremancer/Mystic Theurge gestalt [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dagman
12-10-06, 05:59 PM can anyone help me figure the way to best make a Cerebremancer/Mystic Theurge using gestalt mechanics any ideas would be apreaciated this would be level 11
Cael
12-10-06, 06:09 PM can anyone help me figure the way to best make a Cerebremancer/Mystic Theurge using gestalt mechanics any ideas would be apreaciated this would be level 11
According to the gesalt rules, you are not allowed to do it...
periscope
12-10-06, 07:49 PM You could alternate the levels, one of cerebramancer and the next one mystic theurge...

Wizard/psion/cleric/cerebramancer/mystic theurge
megageek12
12-10-06, 07:59 PM Ardent/cleric.
Cael
12-10-06, 08:07 PM You could alternate the levels, one of cerebramancer and the next one mystic theurge...

Wizard/psion/cleric/cerebramancer/mystic theurge
No. You are not allowed to use dual progression PrCs in a gesalt ever.
Tempest Stormwind
12-10-06, 08:12 PM You could alternate the levels, one of cerebramancer and the next one mystic theurge...

Wizard/psion/cleric/cerebramancer/mystic theurge

No, you couldn't. A gestalt character can’t combine two prestige classes at any level, although it’s okay to combine a prestige class and a regular class. Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant. Because it’s possible for gestalt characters to qualify for prestige classes earlier than normal, the game master is entirely justified in toughening the prerequisites of a prestige class so it’s available only after 5th level, even for gestalt characters.
Ralvuimego
12-11-06, 01:25 PM Personally, I don't see the brokenness of it, seeing as that you're only really multiplying the Mystic Theurge's biggest flaw by an extra half by adding psionics into the mix. Now I don't have any psionics books myself so I can't be sure, (Cerebremancer is the Psionic/Arcane version of MT right?) but if it works just like Mystic Theurge, you'd have to be level 9 before you could even take your gestalt PRC, unless you're gestalting wizard/cleric or wizard/psion.

With Wiz3/Clr3/Psi3/Cerebremancer-MT2 you'd cast like...

Wiz 6/Clr5/Psi5 at level 11, which wouldn't be too effective at that level. The biggest problem I see is you casting like an epic wizard in the high levels, when every Cerebremancer/MT gestalt level scores you two arcane caster levels. Yeah, come to think of it that's pretty broken. (At level 20 you'd cast like a lvl 25 wiz, ouch)
DreamerInsane
12-11-06, 03:04 PM Not really.
You'd probably take levels like (Assuming Wiz is main):
1-3: Wiz//Cleric
4-6: Wiz//Psion (At this point, effectively Wiz6/Psion3/Cleric3)
7-16: Mystic Theurge//Cerebremancer
17-18: Wiz//Cleric
19-20: Wiz//Psion

Casting/manifesting ends up as Wiz20/Cleric15/Psion15 at Level 20

At level 11, casting/manifesting:
Wiz 11/Cleric 8/Psion 8

It's messy, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Caster levels won't be double, since increased arcane caster level is a feature of both classes and not duplicated.
Nezkrul
12-11-06, 03:19 PM you're also forgetting that you can't take 2 prestige classes at the same level (unless i'm just reading the post wrong, sorry).

Dual progression isn't allowed because it says so in the rules. for example cleric 3 // wizard 3 third level character, at his next level he is able to take mystic theurge since he meets the prereqs and he decides to take a cleric level, thats dual progression (ie +2 caster levels to cleric, which isn't allowed for one level). RAYW though.
Erato
12-11-06, 03:45 PM Apart from the fact that it can't be done with the existing rules for gestalt (no ‘combination classes’ allowed), I would do it like this:

Wiz3//cleric3
Mystic theurge7//psion7
Cleric10//crebremancer10

Result = wizard 11, cleric 11, psion 8 at level 11, and wizard 20, cleric 20, psion 17 at level 20

This build ensures the max number of cleric levels (with good fort save, d8 HD, medium BAB), along with the maximum amount of spell casting (you could choose to prioritize psion over cleric, but your stats will suffer).

Also, with the Practiced Manifester feat you can buff your psionic powers to the same power level as if you had 20 levels of psion – you’ll know fewer powers, and wont be able to use them as many times a day, but with 2 other casting classes, it’s the power pr round that matters, not the amount of spells/powers (of which you have more than enough).

If it wasn’t illegal of course :weep:
DracoPhoenix
12-12-06, 08:58 AM Nah, what you want, PrC allowances aside:

Illumian with the power sigil effect (+1 to sigil bonus), taking the caster level sigil. (+3 to caster levels up to HD, loose enough wording that the DM may allow it to apply to psionics too).

Wiz 3 / psion 3 / cerebremancer 10 / arch-mage 4 // cleric 3 / incarnate* 3 / sapphire heirophant(?) 10 / arch-pick one 4.

(unless you can persuade your DM to allow continued progression in the combo classes :) )

*doesn't have to be incarnate, can be druid, warlock etc.

nets you 16 caster levels in 2 progressions 20 in the other 2. Add in 2 practised feats and your're golden. Spells a day are ~L13-17 depending on split. So ok, no L8-9 spells, and your screwed in an AM field. But hey, supernova in 5 and the meld buffs will just add to any items you have.

The combo caster progression is easy enough to apply to any 2 caster types - you get the extra spells / day equivilant, but thats it.
Though you would get stuck with d4 after L3...

You're now MAD on Int, Wis and Con. Better remember to pack a shapechange variant.
Manyfist
12-12-06, 10:55 AM Why not just Tri Gesalt? Psion//Wizard//Cleric?
DracoPhoenix
12-12-06, 11:03 AM Why not just Tri Gesalt? Psion//Wizard//Cleric?

Because that would just be being greedy!

:D
teshen
12-13-06, 08:50 PM Why not just Tri Gesalt? Psion//Wizard//Cleric?
Because that would just be being greedy!

:D
This reminds me of multiclassing in second edition... ;)
Manyfist
12-13-06, 09:04 PM This reminds me of multiclassing in second edition... ;)
Exactly.

You Progress in all three classes and at 20 level sure you're a Bad arse. Yet it'll take you 3x as long.
The_Shaman
12-13-06, 09:21 PM Well, shorter than that perhaps. But it fits elves... they can finally find a good use of their longevity :D .

BTW, speaking of which - what would be the odds of a Thri-Kreen hitting epic? It'd have to start adventuring practically from the crad... er, birthing colony...
No, that doesn't feel right...
Manyfist
12-13-06, 09:48 PM Well, shorter than that perhaps. But it fits elves... they can finally find a good use of their longevity :D .

BTW, speaking of which - what would be the odds of a Thri-Kreen hitting epic? It'd have to start adventuring practically from the crad... er, birthing colony...
No, that doesn't feel right...

I rule that the Thri-Kreen have a Racial Memory of their Parent's yet it only works with the same sex. So a Male and Female get together, both die. The Male and Female have the memories of thier parents, IE class levels at the time of the laying of their egg.

So if your party becomes Epic, and you take a break for 5 years lets say. Your buddy the Kreen just died (old age) yet his/her Son/Daughter just hatched and is basically just like his/her Father/mother.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dagman 12-10-06, 05:59 PM	can anyone help me figure the way to best make a Cerebremancer/Mystic Theurge using gestalt mechanics any ideas would be apreaciated this would be level 11
Cael 12-10-06, 06:09 PM	can anyone help me figure the way to best make a Cerebremancer/Mystic Theurge using gestalt mechanics any ideas would be apreaciated this would be level 11 According to the gesalt rules, you are not allowed to do it...
periscope 12-10-06, 07:49 PM	You could alternate the levels, one of cerebramancer and the next one mystic theurge... Wizard/psion/cleric/cerebramancer/mystic theurge
megageek12 12-10-06, 07:59 PM	Ardent/cleric.
Cael 12-10-06, 08:07 PM	You could alternate the levels, one of cerebramancer and the next one mystic theurge... Wizard/psion/cleric/cerebramancer/mystic theurge No. You are not allowed to use dual progression PrCs in a gesalt ever.
Tempest Stormwind 12-10-06, 08:12 PM	You could alternate the levels, one of cerebramancer and the next one mystic theurge... Wizard/psion/cleric/cerebramancer/mystic theurge No, you couldn't. A gestalt character can’t combine two prestige classes at any level, although it’s okay to combine a prestige class and a regular class. Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant. Because it’s possible for gestalt characters to qualify for prestige classes earlier than normal, the game master is entirely justified in toughening the prerequisites of a prestige class so it’s available only after 5th level, even for gestalt characters.
Ralvuimego 12-11-06, 01:25 PM	Personally, I don't see the brokenness of it, seeing as that you're only really multiplying the Mystic Theurge's biggest flaw by an extra half by adding psionics into the mix. Now I don't have any psionics books myself so I can't be sure, (Cerebremancer is the Psionic/Arcane version of MT right?) but if it works just like Mystic Theurge, you'd have to be level 9 before you could even take your gestalt PRC, unless you're gestalting wizard/cleric or wizard/psion. With Wiz3/Clr3/Psi3/Cerebremancer-MT2 you'd cast like... Wiz 6/Clr5/Psi5 at level 11, which wouldn't be too effective at that level. The biggest problem I see is you casting like an epic wizard in the high levels, when every Cerebremancer/MT gestalt level scores you two arcane caster levels. Yeah, come to think of it that's pretty broken. (At level 20 you'd cast like a lvl 25 wiz, ouch)
DreamerInsane 12-11-06, 03:04 PM	Not really. You'd probably take levels like (Assuming Wiz is main): 1-3: Wiz//Cleric 4-6: Wiz//Psion (At this point, effectively Wiz6/Psion3/Cleric3) 7-16: Mystic Theurge//Cerebremancer 17-18: Wiz//Cleric 19-20: Wiz//Psion Casting/manifesting ends up as Wiz20/Cleric15/Psion15 at Level 20 At level 11, casting/manifesting: Wiz 11/Cleric 8/Psion 8 It's messy, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Caster levels won't be double, since increased arcane caster level is a feature of both classes and not duplicated.
Nezkrul 12-11-06, 03:19 PM	you're also forgetting that you can't take 2 prestige classes at the same level (unless i'm just reading the post wrong, sorry). Dual progression isn't allowed because it says so in the rules. for example cleric 3 // wizard 3 third level character, at his next level he is able to take mystic theurge since he meets the prereqs and he decides to take a cleric level, thats dual progression (ie +2 caster levels to cleric, which isn't allowed for one level). RAYW though.
Erato 12-11-06, 03:45 PM	Apart from the fact that it can't be done with the existing rules for gestalt (no ‘combination classes’ allowed), I would do it like this: Wiz3//cleric3 Mystic theurge7//psion7 Cleric10//crebremancer10 Result = wizard 11, cleric 11, psion 8 at level 11, and wizard 20, cleric 20, psion 17 at level 20 This build ensures the max number of cleric levels (with good fort save, d8 HD, medium BAB), along with the maximum amount of spell casting (you could choose to prioritize psion over cleric, but your stats will suffer). Also, with the Practiced Manifester feat you can buff your psionic powers to the same power level as if you had 20 levels of psion – you’ll know fewer powers, and wont be able to use them as many times a day, but with 2 other casting classes, it’s the power pr round that matters, not the amount of spells/powers (of which you have more than enough). If it wasn’t illegal of course :weep:
DracoPhoenix 12-12-06, 08:58 AM	Nah, what you want, PrC allowances aside: Illumian with the power sigil effect (+1 to sigil bonus), taking the caster level sigil. (+3 to caster levels up to HD, loose enough wording that the DM may allow it to apply to psionics too). Wiz 3 / psion 3 / cerebremancer 10 / arch-mage 4 // cleric 3 / incarnate* 3 / sapphire heirophant(?) 10 / arch-pick one 4. (unless you can persuade your DM to allow continued progression in the combo classes :) ) *doesn't have to be incarnate, can be druid, warlock etc. nets you 16 caster levels in 2 progressions 20 in the other 2. Add in 2 practised feats and your're golden. Spells a day are ~L13-17 depending on split. So ok, no L8-9 spells, and your screwed in an AM field. But hey, supernova in 5 and the meld buffs will just add to any items you have. The combo caster progression is easy enough to apply to any 2 caster types - you get the extra spells / day equivilant, but thats it. Though you would get stuck with d4 after L3... You're now MAD on Int, Wis and Con. Better remember to pack a shapechange variant.
Manyfist 12-12-06, 10:55 AM	Why not just Tri Gesalt? Psion//Wizard//Cleric?
DracoPhoenix 12-12-06, 11:03 AM	Why not just Tri Gesalt? Psion//Wizard//Cleric? Because that would just be being greedy! :D
teshen 12-13-06, 08:50 PM	Why not just Tri Gesalt? Psion//Wizard//Cleric? Because that would just be being greedy! :D This reminds me of multiclassing in second edition... ;)
Manyfist 12-13-06, 09:04 PM	This reminds me of multiclassing in second edition... ;) Exactly. You Progress in all three classes and at 20 level sure you're a Bad arse. Yet it'll take you 3x as long.
The_Shaman 12-13-06, 09:21 PM	Well, shorter than that perhaps. But it fits elves... they can finally find a good use of their longevity :D . BTW, speaking of which - what would be the odds of a Thri-Kreen hitting epic? It'd have to start adventuring practically from the crad... er, birthing colony... No, that doesn't feel right...
Manyfist 12-13-06, 09:48 PM	Well, shorter than that perhaps. But it fits elves... they can finally find a good use of their longevity :D . BTW, speaking of which - what would be the odds of a Thri-Kreen hitting epic? It'd have to start adventuring practically from the crad... er, birthing colony... No, that doesn't feel right... I rule that the Thri-Kreen have a Racial Memory of their Parent's yet it only works with the same sex. So a Male and Female get together, both die. The Male and Female have the memories of thier parents, IE class levels at the time of the laying of their egg. So if your party becomes Epic, and you take a break for 5 years lets say. Your buddy the Kreen just died (old age) yet his/her Son/Daughter just hatched and is basically just like his/her Father/mother.