Chameleons - Use magic device [Archive] - Wizards Community

Chameleons - Use magic device [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Werwoelfin
12-12-05, 01:20 PM Hey everyone,

I plan to play a chameleon and wonder if a chameleon with the relevant Aptitude Focus (Arcane Focus/Divine Focus) may use e.g. scrolls (arcane/divine) without a use magic device check if he has no levels in a spell casting class.
Werwoelfin
12-12-05, 11:50 PM Does noone know how to handle this?
Ph0eNiX
12-12-05, 11:56 PM Hmm.. interesting question. I suppose the smartest idea would be to say "no"... since that particular ability is not specifically called out as taking place when using the focus.

If, however, you are of the mind that absence of proof is not proof of absence, then I would advise that it be limited to spells which appear on their spell lists (which specifically means that it would only allow for spells up to and including level 6).
MobiusKlein
12-13-05, 01:31 AM Even if you don't need to use UMD, you still need to make a caster level check.

Caster level + d20 >= scroll's caster level + 1, roll of 1 always fails.
Grizzled Gryphon
12-13-05, 01:36 AM What is the requirement to use a scroll? You have to be a caster. Being as the Chameleon can, then I would say he can use scrolls. Of course, I would say he has to have the relavant focus for the scroll.

Also, does it specifically call out the ability to use arcane scrolls if you are a Sorcerer? Not that I can recall. In the DMG, it states you must have the spell on your class list in order to use the scroll. So, I think the more relevant question is, can the Chameleon use a scroll when he isn't in the arcane and/or divine focus? Part of me says, yes, because regardless of what focus he has, those spells are still on his class list.

According to the DMG, the requirements to activate a scroll are as follows:
-The spell must be of the correct type. Arcane Casters can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine casters can only use scrolls containing divine spells.
-The user must have the spell on his or her class list.
-The user must have the requisite ability score.
If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and his or her caster level is at least equel to the spells caster level, he or she can automatically activate the spell without a check.

Being as a Chameleon meets all those requirements regardless of what focus he has, I would say he can use any scroll of up to 6th level.

At least, that is my take on it.
Vaelan
12-13-05, 04:31 AM Chameleons do not have a class spell list, and thus they require Use Magic Device to use spell completion items.

While in one particular instance Chameleons appear to have an extremely large class spell list, this instance being the ability to prepare any spell they can get their hands on, there is nothing in the rules that states that they have a class spell list and thus they do not have one.
Werwoelfin
12-13-05, 05:20 AM Chameleons do not have a class spell list, and thus they require Use Magic Device to use spell completion items.

While in one particular instance Chameleons appear to have an extremely large class spell list, this instance being the ability to prepare any spell they can get their hands on, there is nothing in the rules that states that they have a class spell list and thus they do not have one.

That´s exactly why I was unsure of using scrolls etc. It´s not that the chameleon has the ability to cast spell anyway - the chameleon daily has to choose to be able to cast spells or not by choosing his aptitude. Maybe this is why use magic device is a class skill.

But nevertheless it´s a bit funny to image a chameleon (with at least one level in a spell casting class) that uses his bonus feat to get the scribe scroll feat one day but the next day he's not able to use it...
Vaelan
12-13-05, 05:43 AM But nevertheless it´s a bit funny to image a chameleon (with at least one level in a spell casting class) that uses his bonus feat to get the scribe scroll feat one day but the next day he's not able to use it...
I prefer the idea of using the bonus feat to get Open Minded (5 points into engineering), putting the Ability Boon in Intelligence, getting pretty drunk and building a rather complicated machine. The Chameleon wakes up around noon without the slightest idea how the machine works, how to turn it on, or if he even wants to turn it on.
WombleHunter
12-13-05, 05:55 AM Interestingly, it would be easy to interpret the Chameleon's "any spell list" spellcasting ability as being from any one spell list at a time - so each time you choose Arcane Focus, for instance, you pick either Sorcerer/Wizard spells or Bard spells or Hexblade spells and so forth, rather than cherrypicking your spells from each of those lists.
Werwoelfin
12-13-05, 07:11 AM I prefer the idea of using the bonus feat to get Open Minded (5 points into engineering), putting the Ability Boon in Intelligence, getting pretty drunk and building a rather complicated machine. The Chameleon wakes up around noon without the slightest idea how the machine works, how to turn it on, or if he even wants to turn it on.

I would wait until next morning, choose the divine (and if I'm able to also the arcane) focus, prepare boost and protective spells and cast them on me, put the ability boon in constitution and then try. Of course, disguised as someone else ;) Or better pay someone else to do it - but what if the effects are positive? Mhm, if I was me, what would I have thought by building this machine? ;)

BTW, is it possible to take open minded? This feat allows you to spend additional skill points, but skill points can only be spent at a new level. So, technically, you could only take it if you´ve leveled up recently, can´t you?

Interestingly, it would be easy to interpret the Chameleon's "any spell list" spellcasting ability as being from any one spell list at a time - so each time you choose Arcane Focus, for instance, you pick either Sorcerer/Wizard spells or Bard spells or Hexblade spells and so forth, rather than cherrypicking your spells from each of those lists

A friend told me that a single letter makes the differce:
"the spell list of any arcane/divine spellcasting class" -> you must choose one spell list
"the spell lists of any arcane/divine spellcasting class" -> you can mix

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Werwoelfin 12-12-05, 01:20 PM	Hey everyone, I plan to play a chameleon and wonder if a chameleon with the relevant Aptitude Focus (Arcane Focus/Divine Focus) may use e.g. scrolls (arcane/divine) without a use magic device check if he has no levels in a spell casting class.
Werwoelfin 12-12-05, 11:50 PM	Does noone know how to handle this?
Ph0eNiX 12-12-05, 11:56 PM	Hmm.. interesting question. I suppose the smartest idea would be to say "no"... since that particular ability is not specifically called out as taking place when using the focus. If, however, you are of the mind that absence of proof is not proof of absence, then I would advise that it be limited to spells which appear on their spell lists (which specifically means that it would only allow for spells up to and including level 6).
MobiusKlein 12-13-05, 01:31 AM	Even if you don't need to use UMD, you still need to make a caster level check. Caster level + d20 >= scroll's caster level + 1, roll of 1 always fails.
Grizzled Gryphon 12-13-05, 01:36 AM	What is the requirement to use a scroll? You have to be a caster. Being as the Chameleon can, then I would say he can use scrolls. Of course, I would say he has to have the relavant focus for the scroll. Also, does it specifically call out the ability to use arcane scrolls if you are a Sorcerer? Not that I can recall. In the DMG, it states you must have the spell on your class list in order to use the scroll. So, I think the more relevant question is, can the Chameleon use a scroll when he isn't in the arcane and/or divine focus? Part of me says, yes, because regardless of what focus he has, those spells are still on his class list. According to the DMG, the requirements to activate a scroll are as follows: -The spell must be of the correct type. Arcane Casters can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine casters can only use scrolls containing divine spells. -The user must have the spell on his or her class list. -The user must have the requisite ability score. If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and his or her caster level is at least equel to the spells caster level, he or she can automatically activate the spell without a check. Being as a Chameleon meets all those requirements regardless of what focus he has, I would say he can use any scroll of up to 6th level. At least, that is my take on it.
Vaelan 12-13-05, 04:31 AM	Chameleons do not have a class spell list, and thus they require Use Magic Device to use spell completion items. While in one particular instance Chameleons appear to have an extremely large class spell list, this instance being the ability to prepare any spell they can get their hands on, there is nothing in the rules that states that they have a class spell list and thus they do not have one.
Werwoelfin 12-13-05, 05:20 AM	Chameleons do not have a class spell list, and thus they require Use Magic Device to use spell completion items. While in one particular instance Chameleons appear to have an extremely large class spell list, this instance being the ability to prepare any spell they can get their hands on, there is nothing in the rules that states that they have a class spell list and thus they do not have one. That´s exactly why I was unsure of using scrolls etc. It´s not that the chameleon has the ability to cast spell anyway - the chameleon daily has to choose to be able to cast spells or not by choosing his aptitude. Maybe this is why use magic device is a class skill. But nevertheless it´s a bit funny to image a chameleon (with at least one level in a spell casting class) that uses his bonus feat to get the scribe scroll feat one day but the next day he's not able to use it...
Vaelan 12-13-05, 05:43 AM	But nevertheless it´s a bit funny to image a chameleon (with at least one level in a spell casting class) that uses his bonus feat to get the scribe scroll feat one day but the next day he's not able to use it... I prefer the idea of using the bonus feat to get Open Minded (5 points into engineering), putting the Ability Boon in Intelligence, getting pretty drunk and building a rather complicated machine. The Chameleon wakes up around noon without the slightest idea how the machine works, how to turn it on, or if he even wants to turn it on.
WombleHunter 12-13-05, 05:55 AM	Interestingly, it would be easy to interpret the Chameleon's "any spell list" spellcasting ability as being from any one spell list at a time - so each time you choose Arcane Focus, for instance, you pick either Sorcerer/Wizard spells or Bard spells or Hexblade spells and so forth, rather than cherrypicking your spells from each of those lists.
Werwoelfin 12-13-05, 07:11 AM	I prefer the idea of using the bonus feat to get Open Minded (5 points into engineering), putting the Ability Boon in Intelligence, getting pretty drunk and building a rather complicated machine. The Chameleon wakes up around noon without the slightest idea how the machine works, how to turn it on, or if he even wants to turn it on. I would wait until next morning, choose the divine (and if I'm able to also the arcane) focus, prepare boost and protective spells and cast them on me, put the ability boon in constitution and then try. Of course, disguised as someone else ;) Or better pay someone else to do it - but what if the effects are positive? Mhm, if I was me, what would I have thought by building this machine? ;) BTW, is it possible to take open minded? This feat allows you to spend additional skill points, but skill points can only be spent at a new level. So, technically, you could only take it if you´ve leveled up recently, can´t you? Interestingly, it would be easy to interpret the Chameleon's "any spell list" spellcasting ability as being from any one spell list at a time - so each time you choose Arcane Focus, for instance, you pick either Sorcerer/Wizard spells or Bard spells or Hexblade spells and so forth, rather than cherrypicking your spells from each of those lists A friend told me that a single letter makes the differce: "the spell list of any arcane/divine spellcasting class" -> you must choose one spell list "the spell lists of any arcane/divine spellcasting class" -> you can mix