Champions of beauty - ideas needed [Archive] - Wizards Community

Champions of beauty - ideas needed [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
slumbermoose
01-30-06, 03:01 AM I'm creating an organization (possible cult) whose entire focus is on beauty. Right now I see it as being run by some sort of extremely powerful Nymph or other creature with a simillar concept. The organization will recruit followers to live within their city and champion their cause; including gathering fitting treasure, spreading beauty, and destroy "ugly" individuals. I also see the leader of this group as being Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil - but the followers being pretty much any other lawful alignment.

So my issue is what ideas do you all have about a prestige(?) class(es?) to represent the followers of this group. And do you have any other ideas that may flesh them out. Also what about a Beauty domain for clerics? Also as a note: I would prefer to stay away from effects such as alter self that are more of an illusion than any "real" beauty.

And maybe another point to clear up is that part of their teachings would be that a beautiful spirit is shown by a beautiful appearance. Which I think may justify a Lawful Good follower of this organization killing an extremly hideous individual since they are clearly "evil" and that's why they were "ugly"

THanks for any and all advice!
Votan
01-30-06, 03:27 AM I'm creating an organization (possible cult) whose entire focus is on beauty. Right now I see it as being run by some sort of extremely powerful Nymph or other creature with a simillar concept. The organization will recruit followers to live within their city and champion their cause; including gathering fitting treasure, spreading beauty, and destroy "ugly" individuals. I also see the leader of this group as being Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil - but the followers being pretty much any other lawful alignment.

So my issue is what ideas do you all have about a prestige(?) class(es?) to represent the followers of this group. And do you have any other ideas that may flesh them out. Also what about a Beauty domain for clerics? Also as a note: I would prefer to stay away from effects such as alter self that are more of an illusion than any "real" beauty.

Look up the Heartwarden Prestige class -- increases Charisma and is based on the Faerunian goddess of beauty.

And maybe another point to clear up is that part of their teachings would be that a beautiful spirit is shown by a beautiful appearance. Which I think may justify a Lawful Good follower of this organization killing an extremly hideous individual since they are clearly "evil" and that's why they were "ugly"

THanks for any and all advice!

I think that this is a hard thing to justify in a world whee there are spells that detect alignment. Willfully ignoring the results of such spells to destroy something becuase it offends your beliefs strikes me as much more lawful evil (possibly lawful neutral but the extreme remedy strikes me as evil).

Good tends to imply some degree of benevolence. Destroying a demon for being what it is could be consistent with this -- destroying a person because they were maimed seems less so.

However, a LE goddess of beauty could be a fascinating twist on what is regularily done and fiarly consistent with what has been seen in literature with goddess like Aphrodite.
The Wasp
01-30-06, 08:27 AM Hmm, shameless self-promotion time.

Check out the Feysworn PrC in my sig. It could easily represent the fanatical followers of a nymph or goddess of beauty.
slumbermoose
01-30-06, 11:05 AM Thanks for the responses! First, where is the Heartwarden? I'm not familliar with it.

Also, it agree that it may make more sense to make this organization strictly non-good.

As to the feysworn. I think it is an interesting class, but I'm not sure that the flavor is what I would like. I see a group more dedicated to the ideal, and the nymph just happened to personify that, than the other way around.
Rivelstraz
01-30-06, 11:13 AM I'd say that this kind of organization would be rather chaotic than lawful, just because the word "beauty" is a very wide term. Is a thunderstorm beatiful? The black rose that grows in the dark garden, is it beatiful for everybody? The average looking girl, is it beatiful?
All three examples depend merely on who thinks about it, influenced by the environment, past experience, way of thinking, etc.

Being a lawful organization leads me to think that beauty would be fixed, limited to what the bosses or some papers say.

How would an evil member of this organization be? He would be evil with those things he considers "ugly"? Cruel with the life because the sky is clouded and he can't see the sun? He'd destroy a garden because all roses feel ugly? Or just murder a girl because she was overweighted?
Again, it enterily depends on the viewer, hard to create a fixed beauty.
"All roses that are 85% or higher red are considered beautiful. The rest will need further exams to determine its beauty factor"

Just my opinion.

EDIT: Heartwarden is in Faith and Pantheons book. It has a beatiful picture (one of my favoriute) of a red-haired woman taking care of an elven (or half-elf) girl. I'd tell you the page, but since I got the Spanish version, it's most likely a different one.
I'd say is a nice class for a sorcerer, since you get charisma augments and feats for Enchantment school.
slumbermoose
01-30-06, 11:52 AM I checked out the Heartwarden. It could very well be used, though it does have alot of references to the goddess sune.

I realize that beauty is not really operationally defined, but I would really like to keep this group lawful. Any suggestions? I feel like they would draw upon more classic definitions of beauty. Also, concerning alignment, possibly most of them are neutral with evil members destroying life they see as corrupt and the good members seeking to merely protect beauty. I think I would like to keep their leader evil, but possibly posing as a different alignment.

Is anyone familiar with the champion class from monte cook's Arcana Unearthed? Any suggestions on possibly adding beauty as a possible cause for that class? Also any ideas for a beauty domain?
CzarGarrett
01-30-06, 12:55 PM Off the top of my head, I'd look up stuff involving Sune from Forgotten Realms. She is a Goddess who is all about beauty and the like.

It could be some good background for you.
slumbermoose
01-31-06, 01:26 AM What would be another possible leader for this group? And is there another forum this entire question would be better suited for?
Rivelstraz
01-31-06, 08:19 AM I checked out the Heartwarden. It could very well be used, though it does have alot of references to the goddess sune.

I realize that beauty is not really operationally defined, but I would really like to keep this group lawful. Any suggestions? I feel like they would draw upon more classic definitions of beauty. Also, concerning alignment, possibly most of them are neutral with evil members destroying life they see as corrupt and the good members seeking to merely protect beauty. I think I would like to keep their leader evil, but possibly posing as a different alignment.

Is anyone familiar with the champion class from monte cook's Arcana Unearthed? Any suggestions on possibly adding beauty as a possible cause for that class? Also any ideas for a beauty domain?

I can think of a possible model for your leader. Do you know Vega, from the fighting game Street Fighter?
He's an evil (CRAZY) Spanish fighter, and all his lines and thoughts are about beauty. Perhaps you could find some information about him, it could give you some ideas about how make an evil leader of this beauty cult.

Sune is the FR Goddess of Beauty, but Sharess could work too, and Sharess has evil priests if I remember correctly.

I'm not familiar with that class. Is Arcana Unearthed the book with Gestalts and bloodlines?
Almost all the "new" books are in hands of my players, since I don't usually require them to prepare my adventures.
CzarGarrett
01-31-06, 09:26 AM What would be another possible leader for this group? And is there another forum this entire question would be better suited for?

Perhaps in the 'Whats a DM to Do?' section, you can get more info for specifically developing a cult and all.

As to a leader, personally, I think Bards are great for the scenario. Although your desire for a Lawful leader is a bit of a stumbling block. I'd probably go with a NE Bard (not lawful, but vaguely closer).

Rogues can work as well. I think anything with a high number of skill points and a high CHA would be appropriate.
Silverthumb128
01-31-06, 09:39 AM I can easily see using your Cha mod to effect with a PrC like this, as per Paladin, for example, to saves, or even to AC, or as a bonus to HP at certain levels. I wouldn't go with all 3, naturally, but those are ideaas off the top of my head that could be useful.
slumbermoose
02-02-06, 02:24 AM Does anyone else have any ideas that could be applicable to any part of this idea?
Jaeron Dalur
02-02-06, 03:18 AM A Lawful Evil being obsessed with beauty, to me, brings to mind the step-mother/witch from Snow White. And as such it is hard for me to imagine the being to do anything other than try to destroy all that is more beautiful than itself. The whole idea seems to lend itself to something neutral in regard to good and evil. Something that doesn't care how the amassment of beauty is accomplished, just that it is. Lawful Neutral or True Neutral seem good alignments for it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
slumbermoose 01-30-06, 03:01 AM	I'm creating an organization (possible cult) whose entire focus is on beauty. Right now I see it as being run by some sort of extremely powerful Nymph or other creature with a simillar concept. The organization will recruit followers to live within their city and champion their cause; including gathering fitting treasure, spreading beauty, and destroy "ugly" individuals. I also see the leader of this group as being Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil - but the followers being pretty much any other lawful alignment. So my issue is what ideas do you all have about a prestige(?) class(es?) to represent the followers of this group. And do you have any other ideas that may flesh them out. Also what about a Beauty domain for clerics? Also as a note: I would prefer to stay away from effects such as alter self that are more of an illusion than any "real" beauty. And maybe another point to clear up is that part of their teachings would be that a beautiful spirit is shown by a beautiful appearance. Which I think may justify a Lawful Good follower of this organization killing an extremly hideous individual since they are clearly "evil" and that's why they were "ugly" THanks for any and all advice!
Votan 01-30-06, 03:27 AM	I'm creating an organization (possible cult) whose entire focus is on beauty. Right now I see it as being run by some sort of extremely powerful Nymph or other creature with a simillar concept. The organization will recruit followers to live within their city and champion their cause; including gathering fitting treasure, spreading beauty, and destroy "ugly" individuals. I also see the leader of this group as being Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil - but the followers being pretty much any other lawful alignment. So my issue is what ideas do you all have about a prestige(?) class(es?) to represent the followers of this group. And do you have any other ideas that may flesh them out. Also what about a Beauty domain for clerics? Also as a note: I would prefer to stay away from effects such as alter self that are more of an illusion than any "real" beauty. Look up the Heartwarden Prestige class -- increases Charisma and is based on the Faerunian goddess of beauty. And maybe another point to clear up is that part of their teachings would be that a beautiful spirit is shown by a beautiful appearance. Which I think may justify a Lawful Good follower of this organization killing an extremly hideous individual since they are clearly "evil" and that's why they were "ugly" THanks for any and all advice! I think that this is a hard thing to justify in a world whee there are spells that detect alignment. Willfully ignoring the results of such spells to destroy something becuase it offends your beliefs strikes me as much more lawful evil (possibly lawful neutral but the extreme remedy strikes me as evil). Good tends to imply some degree of benevolence. Destroying a demon for being what it is could be consistent with this -- destroying a person because they were maimed seems less so. However, a LE goddess of beauty could be a fascinating twist on what is regularily done and fiarly consistent with what has been seen in literature with goddess like Aphrodite.
The Wasp 01-30-06, 08:27 AM	Hmm, shameless self-promotion time. Check out the Feysworn PrC in my sig. It could easily represent the fanatical followers of a nymph or goddess of beauty.
slumbermoose 01-30-06, 11:05 AM	Thanks for the responses! First, where is the Heartwarden? I'm not familliar with it. Also, it agree that it may make more sense to make this organization strictly non-good. As to the feysworn. I think it is an interesting class, but I'm not sure that the flavor is what I would like. I see a group more dedicated to the ideal, and the nymph just happened to personify that, than the other way around.
Rivelstraz 01-30-06, 11:13 AM	I'd say that this kind of organization would be rather chaotic than lawful, just because the word "beauty" is a very wide term. Is a thunderstorm beatiful? The black rose that grows in the dark garden, is it beatiful for everybody? The average looking girl, is it beatiful? All three examples depend merely on who thinks about it, influenced by the environment, past experience, way of thinking, etc. Being a lawful organization leads me to think that beauty would be fixed, limited to what the bosses or some papers say. How would an evil member of this organization be? He would be evil with those things he considers "ugly"? Cruel with the life because the sky is clouded and he can't see the sun? He'd destroy a garden because all roses feel ugly? Or just murder a girl because she was overweighted? Again, it enterily depends on the viewer, hard to create a fixed beauty. "All roses that are 85% or higher red are considered beautiful. The rest will need further exams to determine its beauty factor" Just my opinion. EDIT: Heartwarden is in Faith and Pantheons book. It has a beatiful picture (one of my favoriute) of a red-haired woman taking care of an elven (or half-elf) girl. I'd tell you the page, but since I got the Spanish version, it's most likely a different one. I'd say is a nice class for a sorcerer, since you get charisma augments and feats for Enchantment school.
slumbermoose 01-30-06, 11:52 AM	I checked out the Heartwarden. It could very well be used, though it does have alot of references to the goddess sune. I realize that beauty is not really operationally defined, but I would really like to keep this group lawful. Any suggestions? I feel like they would draw upon more classic definitions of beauty. Also, concerning alignment, possibly most of them are neutral with evil members destroying life they see as corrupt and the good members seeking to merely protect beauty. I think I would like to keep their leader evil, but possibly posing as a different alignment. Is anyone familiar with the champion class from monte cook's Arcana Unearthed? Any suggestions on possibly adding beauty as a possible cause for that class? Also any ideas for a beauty domain?
CzarGarrett 01-30-06, 12:55 PM	Off the top of my head, I'd look up stuff involving Sune from Forgotten Realms. She is a Goddess who is all about beauty and the like. It could be some good background for you.
slumbermoose 01-31-06, 01:26 AM	What would be another possible leader for this group? And is there another forum this entire question would be better suited for?
Rivelstraz 01-31-06, 08:19 AM	I checked out the Heartwarden. It could very well be used, though it does have alot of references to the goddess sune. I realize that beauty is not really operationally defined, but I would really like to keep this group lawful. Any suggestions? I feel like they would draw upon more classic definitions of beauty. Also, concerning alignment, possibly most of them are neutral with evil members destroying life they see as corrupt and the good members seeking to merely protect beauty. I think I would like to keep their leader evil, but possibly posing as a different alignment. Is anyone familiar with the champion class from monte cook's Arcana Unearthed? Any suggestions on possibly adding beauty as a possible cause for that class? Also any ideas for a beauty domain? I can think of a possible model for your leader. Do you know Vega, from the fighting game Street Fighter? He's an evil (CRAZY) Spanish fighter, and all his lines and thoughts are about beauty. Perhaps you could find some information about him, it could give you some ideas about how make an evil leader of this beauty cult. Sune is the FR Goddess of Beauty, but Sharess could work too, and Sharess has evil priests if I remember correctly. I'm not familiar with that class. Is Arcana Unearthed the book with Gestalts and bloodlines? Almost all the "new" books are in hands of my players, since I don't usually require them to prepare my adventures.
CzarGarrett 01-31-06, 09:26 AM	What would be another possible leader for this group? And is there another forum this entire question would be better suited for? Perhaps in the 'Whats a DM to Do?' section, you can get more info for specifically developing a cult and all. As to a leader, personally, I think Bards are great for the scenario. Although your desire for a Lawful leader is a bit of a stumbling block. I'd probably go with a NE Bard (not lawful, but vaguely closer). Rogues can work as well. I think anything with a high number of skill points and a high CHA would be appropriate.
Silverthumb128 01-31-06, 09:39 AM	I can easily see using your Cha mod to effect with a PrC like this, as per Paladin, for example, to saves, or even to AC, or as a bonus to HP at certain levels. I wouldn't go with all 3, naturally, but those are ideaas off the top of my head that could be useful.
slumbermoose 02-02-06, 02:24 AM	Does anyone else have any ideas that could be applicable to any part of this idea?
Jaeron Dalur 02-02-06, 03:18 AM	A Lawful Evil being obsessed with beauty, to me, brings to mind the step-mother/witch from Snow White. And as such it is hard for me to imagine the being to do anything other than try to destroy all that is more beautiful than itself. The whole idea seems to lend itself to something neutral in regard to good and evil. Something that doesn't care how the amassment of beauty is accomplished, just that it is. Lawful Neutral or True Neutral seem good alignments for it.