Post/Author/DateTime	Post
periscope 07-27-06, 02:23 AM	In my gaming group we play for 3 months and then rotate the DM. My turn will be coming up shortly and Im getting everything together. I made the campaign world myself so I want to make this a good one (Its the first time I've made my own world). Im wanting to change some classes and want a second (and third, and fourth, etc., etc.) Truenamer: Changing the DC for an utterance Changing it to DC 15+CR (or hit dice for npcs and things that dont normally run on CR)+Double the level of the utterance Shadow elemental CR2 attempt to use first level utterance (reversed word of nurturing) DC 19 2nd level character has 5 ranks in truespeak +3 int (16 int)+3 skill focus= +11 on the check first time needs an 8 or higher so not that bad. However since this is the main offensive utterance (for damage anyway) your going to be using this frequently and each time adds +2 to the check so after 4 times it starts getting really hard. Its not that abusable since the fighter or barbarian can do that every day and at level 2 owns the field. But just so they dont totally own the place, getting rid of the +10 amulet of truespeak and bumping up the price of the +5 Giving it +6 skill points and adding Bluff, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Intimidate , and Speak Languageto the skill list. It just seems that they would be good with words so that would be good at using them. Also, considering giving a lesser version of speak unto the masses at some point. Maybe 8th level and maybe affect one extra being per intelligence modifier. Knights I've heard alot of people say they dont like the knight, but I at least like the concept of the knight. I see it as the Immovable Object to the Barbarians Unstoppable force. I like the image of a Barbarian trying to charge the Knight and the Knight just Pimp slaps him with his shield and knocks him on his butt. However I do see a lot of problems with it. 1) If anyone has an alternative name for it please state so since the Knight thing is more of a title. [EDIT] The classes new name is the Bastion. 2) Changing the Code. The code as is is vague and too restrictive. Changing it by: 1) The knight does gain a flanking bonus. I dont see the point of the no flanking rule. 2) Instead of cant hit a flatfooted opponent, the knight must instead not sneak up on them. A knight may not strike an opponent for lethal damage while invisible or in any other way undetectable to an enemy, nor may he deal non lethal damage to an opponent to allow another character the chance to finish them off. However, if they feint in combat or if they win initiative, they may strike them. 3) The Knight may not strike a foe who has surrendered nor may he coup de grae an enemy as it is cowardly. If a foe who has surrendered attempts to attack the knight, the knight may then slay him even if he has surrendered again without any negative effects. changing the Mounted combat feat to just a bonus feat and Mounted Combat will be on the list changing Fighting Challenges bonus to "a morale bonus equal to their charisma bonus, up to the Knight level". If any wants to suggest a maximum number here plz feel free. Considering adding an ability to give a bonus against trip, sunder, and overrun attempts. [EDIT] Giving the Knight the Combat forms as feats under their bonus feats selection. Adding Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive to their class list. Im not giving them bluff because they are men (and women) of honor, lies do not become them. Fighter Using Lotus Cranes alternative of the fighter and using a lot of feats off the boards (that I have approved of) and the ones in the PHB II so I think he'll be ok. Marshal Using Lotus Cranes Marshal, like it better. Cleric I will be using Szatany's version of the cleric since I think it nerfs is sufficiently http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=169796 Druid Having the Druid use the Shapeshifting variant from the PHB II to nerf it. If they want an animal companion, they can use the Wild Cohort feat. Paladin Using this instead of paladin http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=419058 SIZE=3]Ranger[/SIZE] http://boards.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=370132 Using this instead of the PHB one Sorceror Pretty much keeping it the same though 1) Using the PHB II variant. If they want a familiar, they may burn a feat slot for them. 2) Considering givng them bonus feats, like the wizard. But instead of metamagic feats, I want to give them Heritage feats, starting at first level. I do have a much more extensive list of heritage feats than the PHB II and Races of the Dragon. EDIT 3) Adding Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive to his skills. Incarnate Giving him a clerics BAB. Also looking for new soulmelds, specifically good, lawful, and chaotic. EDIT Warmage Changing Warmage Edge to run off charisma instead of intelligence. Bard Using Szatany's version, just like it better http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=170446 Shadowcaster Using the suggestions that Mouseferatu posted on EN world 1) Grant bonus mysteries per day based on Int. These would work just like bonus spells. For instance, if your Int is 14, you can cast one extra mystery of 1st-level equivalent and one of 2nd-level equivalent per day. (Note that each mystery does give an equivalent level, even though you don't learn them by level.) 2) Eliminate the rule that says you have to take mysteries in a given Path in order. If you want to jump around, so as to broaden your versatility, you can. You must still have at least one mystery of any given level equivalent (1st, 2nd, etc.) before you can get a mystery of the next higher level within a type (Apprentice, Initiate, Master), but they need not come from the same Path. 3) Eliminate the rule that says you get a bonus feat equal to half the number of paths you have access to. Instead, you get a bonus feat equal to the total number of Paths you complete. Thus, while you are no longer required to take the entirety of a given Path, there's still encouragement to do so. 4) Allow the shadowcaster to swap out mysteries, like a sorcerer does spells, with the caveat that if you suddenly "un-complete" a Path, you lose a feat as well. 5) Once your Apprentice Mysteries become supernatural abilities, change the save DC from 10 + equivalent spell level + Cha to 10 + 1/2 caster level + Cha. This makes them useful even against high-HD opponents, and follows the pattern for other supernatural abilities. (And BTW, the warp spell mystery shouldn't say that it allows a Will save. The caster level check determines success or failure.)
periscope 07-27-06, 01:09 PM	bump
LordPendragon 07-27-06, 01:21 PM	You should leave the Truenamer the way it is originally, and allow item familiars and custom magic items (which according to the DMG can go up to +30 to a skill, without being epic). I like what you did with the Knight, though. Also, consider for the Fighter the option proposed in the "Fighter Discussion 2.0" thread. Allow the Fighter to have 4 separate styles at a high level. 1 at level 1, splitting to 2 at level 4, splitting again to 4 at level 10. It allows for the Fighter to be the "versatile soldier" it's meant to be, while still giving it enough resources to focus properly.
periscope 07-27-06, 08:12 PM	Thank you for the complement about the knight. Do you think I should put in bonuses against trip, sunder, and disarm attempts or the Defensive Stance? Heck I was considering giving them blindisight with a range of 5 to 10 so that "None shall pass". And yes that is probably plagiarizing Gandalf. Lotus Cranes Fighter gains a bonus feat on every level except the levels that it would gain a normal feat (3, 6, 9, etc.). He also gains some abilities that just boost the fighter up at higher levels. Are you sure about the Truenamer? I mean at higher levels the DCs are almost impossible and I want to give them an alternative then just the amulet (otherwise it will be easy to identify truenamers on sight I mean the amulet looks like the Joker on an Acid Trip).
Szatany 07-27-06, 08:16 PM	Knights 1) If anyone has an alternative name for it please state so since the Knight thing is more of a title. Bastion
Witch 07-27-06, 08:25 PM	Are you sure about the Truenamer? I mean at higher levels the DCs are almost impossible and I want to give them an alternative then just the amulet (otherwise it will be easy to identify truenamers on sight I mean the amulet looks like the Joker on an Acid Trip). a) make the amulet look different. b) let's see what you can do with custom items and an item familiar. Custom items allow a +30 competence bonus to a skill before going epic. The price for such an item is 90.000. (3²x100) I'd have to check to be sure, but I think it's x100, and not x1000. Add skill focus. Add a 26 intelligence. That's not that hard to get. +8. Add an item familiar. That's a +23 unnamed bonus. Add your actual ranks. That's a +23. So at 20th level, you will be able to have a +87 on your modifier. Every single utterance is now trivial to you. Too bad most of the utterances utterly suck.
periscope 07-27-06, 08:29 PM	How do you get an item familiar? And thank you for the name for the knight.
LordPendragon 07-27-06, 09:08 PM	Item Familiar is a feat from Unearthed Arcana. And yes, the utterances suck, that's what makes it fun :P By the way, "None shall pass" is plagiarizing the Black Knight from Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail.
periscope 07-27-06, 09:11 PM	Isnt he the one that got all his limbs hacked off and threatened to bite your kneecaps? But seriously does anyone have any comments? And what is the the vote on the utterances, lower the DC or allow the creation of an item familiar that gives a bonus on the checks? And is the item familiar in the SRD because I dont have a copy of Unearthed Arcana?
pukunui 07-27-06, 09:20 PM	Sorceror Pretty much keeping it the same though 1) Using the PHB II variant. If they want a familiar, they may burn a feat slot for them. 2) Considering givng them bonus feats, like the wizard. But instead of metamagic feats, I want to give them Heritage feats, starting at first level. I do have a much more extensive list of heritage feats than the PHB II and Races of the Dragon. I was thinking of doing something similar with the sorceror class in my game, but I'm only aware of the 9 Draconic Heritage feats from Complete Arcane and the 5 Celestial and 4 Infernal Heritage feats from the PHB2. Can you please enlighten me as to your 'more extensive list'? p.s. Gandalf's most famous line is "Fly, you fools!"
periscope 07-28-06, 12:18 AM	Elemental Sorcerer Heritage The power of the elements flows in your blood. You gain access to a number of elemental abilities. Prerequisite: Sorcerer level 1rst. Benefit: Choose one element from the Elemental Heritage list below. This is your Elemental Heritage, which cannot be changed once the feat is taken. You gain a bonus to saving throws against poison, as well as spells and abilities with the energy type of your Elemental Heritage equal to the number of Elemental Heritage feats you posses. You also add a spell determined by your Elemental Heritage to your 1rst level sorcerer spells known. Air: Electricity; Feather Fall Earth:Acid; Enlarge Person Fire: Fire; Hypnotism Water:Cold; Obscuring Mist Elemental Sorcerer Blast You can call forth your elemental heritage to create a blast of elemental power. Prerequisite: Elemental Sorcerer Heritage, Sorcerer level 1rst. Benefit: As a standard action, you can expend a spell slot to create a blast of damaging elemental energy. The blast deals 1d8 damage per level of the spell slot spent to activate this ability. A reflex save (DC 10+ the level of the spell slot expended+ your Cha mod) halves the damage. This is a supernatural ability. Air: Electricity; 60ft line Earth: Shockwave; 60ft line, this does bludgeoning damage and can only affect ground based targets. Fire: Fire; 30ft cone Water: Cold; 30ft cone Elemental Sorcerer Defense Command over your Elemental Heritage boosts your defensive abilities. Prerequisite: Elemental Sorcerer Heritage, Sorcerer level 1rst. Benefit: You gain resistance to the energy type of your Elemental Heritage equal to twice the total number of Elemental Sorcerer Heritage feats you have. You also gain an additional defensive ability, determined by your Elemental Heritage. Air: Gain a + 2 Deflection bonus to your AC. Earth: Your Natural Armor increases by 2. Fire: Gain a +2 Dodge bonus to your AC. Water: Gain DR 2/- Note: These bonuses stack with all others (the DR stacks with any other DR /- but overlaps with other DR) Elemental Sorcerer Movement You use your command over your element to enhance your movement. Prerequisite: Elemental Sorcerer Heritage, Sorcerer level 1rst. Benefit: As an immediate action, you may expend a spell slot to gain an enhanced form of motion. You move at twice your base speed in a manner determined by your Elemental Heritage. This enhanced movement lasts a number of rounds equal to the level of the expended spell slot. Air: Flight (Good Maneuverability) Earth: Climb Fire: Base Speed Water: Swim Fey Sorcerer Heritage You can call upon the power of distant fey ancestors. Prerequisite: Sorcerer level 1rst Benefit: You gain a bonus to saving throws against enchantment spells or effects equal to the total number of Fey Sorcerer Heritage feats you have. You also add Charm Person to your 1rst level sorcerer spells known. Fey Sorcerer Defense Your Fey blood protects you from harm. Prerequisite: Fey Sorcerer Heritage, Sorcerer level 1rst. Benefit: You gain DR/Cold Iron equal to the number of Fey Sorcerer Feats you have. Fey Sorcerer Glamour Your fey nature enchants and enthralls. Prerequisite: Fey Sorcerer Heritage, Sorcerer level 1rst. Benefit: As a standard action, you can expend a spell slot to create an enchanting aura that affects all creatures within a 20ft radius around you. All creatures with fewer Hit Dice than you must make a Will save (DC 10+level of the spell slot expended+ your Cha mod) or become fascinated for a number of rounds equal to the spell slot expended. A creature that resist or breaks this effect cannot be affected by it again for 24 hours. Fey Sorcerer Resistance Your Fey powers grant you protection from mystic forces. Prerequisite: Fey Sorcerer Heritage, Sorcerer level 1rst. Benefit: As an immediate action, you may expend a spell slot to temporarily gain Spell Resistance. You gain Spell Resistance (12+Spell Slot Expended). This Spell Resistance lasts until the start of your next turn. Green Sorcerer Heritage Your bloodline has a peculiar connection to plant life. Prerequisite: Sorcerer level 1rst Benefit: You add Knowledge: Nature to your list of class skills. You also gain a bonus to saving throws against mind-effecting spells or effects equal to the total number of Green Sorcerer Heritage feats you have. Green Sorcerer Fortitude Your kinship with plant life makes you difficult to injure. Prerequisite: Green Sorcerer Heritage, Sorcerer level 1rst Benefit: When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored against you, there is a 25% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage rolled normally. Green Sorcerer Wisdom You gain a great power over plants. Prerequisite: Green Sorcerer Heritage, any two other Green Sorcerer Heritage feats, Sorcerer level 1rst Benefit: You add Entangle, Plant Growth, and Speak with Plants to your list of spells known. You gain these spells when you gain access to spells of the appropriate level. These spells are treated as arcane spells, and are in addition to the spells you gain normally based on your sorcerer level. Green Sorcerer Recovery You can draw strength from the sun. Prerequisite: Green Sorcerer Heritage, Sorcerer level 1rst Benefit: While under direct sunlight, you may expend a spell slot to temporarily gain Fast Healing 1 as a swift action. This lasts a number of minutes equal to the level of the spell slot expended. Elemental Sorcerer Knowledge You gain greater knowledge about your elemental power. Prerequisite: Elemental Sorcerer Heritage, any two other Elemental Sorcerer Heritage feats, Sorcerer level 1rst Benefit: You add several spells to your list of spells known. These spells are determined by your Elemental Heritage. You gain these spells when you gain access to spells of the appropriate level. These spells are treated as arcane spells, and are in addition to the spells you gain normally based on your sorcerer level. Air: Comprehend Languages, Gust of Wind, Wind Wall Earth: Keen Edge, Meld into Stone, Shatter Fire: Produce Flame, Pyrotechnics, Tongues Water: Fog Cloud, Sleet Storm, Water Breathing Fey Sorcerer Insight You gain a greater understanding of your fey nature. Prerequisite: Fey Sorcerer Heritage, any two other Fey Sorcerer Heritage feats, Sorcerer level 1rst Benefit: You add Arcane Sight, Deep Slumber and Faerie Fire to your list of spells known. You gain these spells when you gain access to spells of the appropriate level. These spells are treated as arcane spells, and are in addition to the spells you gain normally based on your sorcerer level. Umbral Sorcerer Heritage Your ancestry is linked to the plane of shadows. Prerequisite: Sorcerer level 1rst Benefit: You add Hide to your list of class skills. You also gain a bonus to saving throws against spells or effects with the [fear] [darkness] or [shadow] descriptor, equal to the total number of Umbral Sorcerer Heritage feats you have. Umbral Sorcerer Lance You smite your enemies with a blast of quasi-real darkness. Prerequisite: Umbral Sorcerer Heritage, Sorcerer level 1rst Benefit: As a standard action, you can expend a spell slot to create a 30ft ray of dark energy from the plane of shadows. This is a ranged touch attack that deals 2d6 damage per level of the spell slot spent. A creature struck by the ray must make a Will save to disbelieve the effect (DC 10+ the level of the spell slot expended+ your Cha mod). Targets that make a successful will save only take ¼ the damage (round up). This is a spell like ability with a spell level equal to the spell slot expended (Caster level is the sorcerers caster level). Umbral Sorcerer Leap You can move short distances through the plane of shadows. Prerequisite: Umbral Sorcerer Heritage, Sorcerer level 1rst Benefit: You may briefly travel through the plane of shadow, re-appearing in the material plane moments later in a different location. This functions as the spell Dimension Door. You can jump a total distance of (10 feet per Umbral Sorcerer Heritage feat you have) each day in this way. This amount can be split among many jumps, but each one, no matter how small, counts as a 10-foot increment. This is a supernatural ability. Umbral Sorcerer Lore You tap into the lore of the shadow plane. Prerequisite: Umbral Sorcerer Heritage, any two other Umbral Sorcerer Heritage feats, Sorcerer level 1rst Benefit: You add Darkness, Ebon Eyes (Spell Compendium) (I dont have the spell compendium so if someone could give a substitute thx), and Scare to your list of spells known. You gain these spells when you gain access to spells of the appropriate level. These spells are treated as arcane spells, and are in addition to the spells you gain normally based on your sorcerer level. Umbral Sorcerer Stealth You connection to the plane of shadows enhances your stealth. Prerequisites: Umbral Sorcerer Heritage, Sorcerer level 1rst Benefit: By expending a spell slot, you gain an enhancement bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks equal to twice the number of Umbral Sorcerer Heritage feats you have. This bonus only applies if are in an area that is dark, shadowy, or otherwise poorly lit, and last a number of minutes equal to the level of the spell slot expended. This is a supernatural ability. Anarchic Sorcerer Heritage The chaotic energies course through your being. Prerequisite: Sorcerer level 1rst. Bonus: You gain a +1 Luck bonus to your AC per anarchic Sorcerer Heritage feat. You also gain a bonus to saving throws against spells or effects with the [Law] descriptor equal to the total number of Anarchic Sorcerer Heritage feats you have. In addition, you add Color Spray to your list of spells known. Anarchic Sorcerer Favor Your influence over chaos allows you bend fate to your whim. Prerequisite: Anarchic Sorcerer Heritage, Sorcerer level 1rst. Bonus: Once per day, you may expend a spell slot to add a luck bonus equal to the level of the spell slot expended to a single d20 roll that you have just made before the game master declares whether the roll results in success or failure. This is a supernatural ability. Anarchic Sorcerer Pulse A wave of chaotic force ripples forth from your body. Prerequisite: Anarchic Sorcerer Heritage, Sorcerer level 1rst. Bonus: As a standard action, you can expend a spell slot to release a wave of seething chaotic energy. This effect is a 20ft radius burst centered on you. The pulse deals 1d8 [chaos] damage per level of the spell slot spent to activate this ability to lawful creatures, or 1d4 damage to non-lawful, non-chaotic creatures. Chaotic creatures are entirely unaffected. A will save (DC 10+ the level of the spell slot expended+ your Cha mod) halves the damage. This is a supernatural ability. Axiomatic Sorcerer Heritage Your mind and body are fortified by the strength of law. Prerequisite: Sorcerer level 1rst. Bonus: You gain a bonus to saving throws against mind affecting spells or effects, and spells and effects with the [Chaos] descriptor equal to the total number of Axiomatic Sorcerer Heritage feats you have. You also add True Strike to your list of spells known. Axiomatic Sorcerer Bulwark You conjure a barrier of lawful energy to protect yourself. Prerequisite: Axiomatic Sorcerer Heritage, Sorcerer level 1rst. Bonus: As a standard action, you can conjure an aura of energy that grants you temporary hit points equal to (1d6+1) x the level of the spell slot expended to activate this ability. Any damage taken is subtracted from the temporary hp granted by the bulwark first. You may not have more than one Axiomatic Bulwark in effect at any given time. This is a supernatural ability and lasts a number of minutes equal to the level of the spell slot expended. Axiomatic Sorcerer Smite You strike down foes with the force of law. Prerequisite: Axiomatic Sorcerer Heritage, Sorcerer level 1rst. Bonus: Once per day, as an immediate action, you may expend a spell slot to channel lawful energy into a melee attack. Until your next turn, you gain a bonus to your attack roll equal to the level of spell slot expended to activate this ability. Non-lawful opponents you strike take an additional d6 (if chaotic), d4 (if neutral), or 0 (if lawful) lawful damage per level of spell slot expended to activate this ability. I take no credit from these but I cant remember which thread I got them from, so if you helped make these thank you! I may have tweaked them a bit for my campaign. Also I wanted to add a couple more sorceror heritage feats since there 5 celestial, elemental, and fey feats but only 4 infernal, 4 green, 3 anarchic, and 3 axiomatic. One possibility for an infernal feat is infernal venom Infernal Venom Your ancestry has gifted (or cursed) you with a powerful venom. Prerequisite: Infernal Sorceror Heritiage, Sorceror level 1 Benefit: A number of times per day equal to your charisma modifier +1 per 3 sorceror levels you possess, you may spit a magical toxin which can blind your enemies and destroy their minds. This counts as a ranged touch attack with a range of 30 ft (its magically propelled). Its a contact poison who's initial damage is blindness for 1 round per point of charisma bonus +1 per 3 sorceror levels you possess + 1d6 charisma damage. Its secondary effect is 2d6 Cha damage. Unlike most venoms this constitutes a will save of DC 10+ your charisma modifier+1 per infernal sorceror feat. maybe have you choose between a venom that affects the mind, and one that effects the body
pukunui 07-28-06, 12:22 AM	Cool. Thanks. I'll have a look over them more thoroughly later.
periscope 07-28-06, 02:36 PM	Bump
DarkSorcerer 07-28-06, 02:46 PM	Not defensive stance. While the flavor is perfect, you should never give a special ability that is an instant kill when it wears off. Aside from this personal issue I have with the stance, it perfectly fits the flavor of your bastion. Also you should make them stabile: +4 bonus to resist effects that move or knock down. Alternatively, treat them as 1 size category larger to resist such effects.
periscope 07-28-06, 02:55 PM	The Barbarians rage can be an instant kill so its not totally unprecedented. Maybe give them the powerful build trait at like level 5-15 somewhere? I mean a lot of those descriptions of knights described standing head and shoulders above all or as a great hulking warrior.
periscope 07-28-06, 08:04 PM	By the way, we are doing a gestalt campaign and one of the people is having trouble deciding about what to gestalt. Plz no gestalt is broken comments. All of us have done gestalt campaigns before (except the new guy, this is his first [they grow up so fast :weep: ]). He's the younger brother of one of my players and he needed some advice. He's already decided to a martial artist or brawler type class as one of them (martial artist and brawler are variants that I've found on the boards that I have allowed as alternatives to the monk for unarmed fighting). He's trying to decide whether or not to gestalt cleric or incarnate with it. He's playing a neutral good character so the incarnate would boost his ac up but cleric just has all the good spells. Im advising incarnate myself since you would get access to the mauling gauntlets and like a +12 to all strength based checks (not skill checks) and +12 to unarmed damage at 20th level. But cleric does have its good points to.
periscope 07-29-06, 12:28 AM	bump
IbanezNinja 07-29-06, 12:53 AM	Cleric would end up better, but I love incarnum, so I'd say Incarnate, just to be different. Btw, I just wanna say, the changes you've made are pretty good.
periscope 07-29-06, 02:42 PM	Thank you for the compliment. Does anyone have any other opinions on the idea of giving the knight the defensive stance ability? Also thinking about adding the shield feats from the PHB II and the combat form and the combat form feat that gives you a bonus against bullrush, overrun, trip attempts and such to the list of bonus feats he has access to.
periscope 07-30-06, 01:18 AM	bump
periscope 07-30-06, 10:26 PM	Anyone else have anything to say? Oh by the way, I was thinking about instituting new utterances and souldmelds for the truenamer and incarnate. Specifically I am looking for any soulmelds with the good, chaos, or law subtypes (necrocarnum took care of all the evil). One idea is a soulmeld that would grant something similar to a paladins lay on hands ability for a good one, one that grants damage reduction for a lawful one, and one that grants fast healing for a chaotic one.
periscope 07-31-06, 04:07 PM	come on, anybody? No other comments, everythings perfect? Anybody, anybody at all?
periscope 08-01-06, 01:14 AM	bump
periscope 08-02-06, 12:42 AM	No more? Come on, someone has to have something to say.
pukunui 08-02-06, 12:50 AM	No more? Come on, someone has to have something to say. Obviously not ...
periscope 08-02-06, 02:34 AM	Why not? Did I do something wrong?
pukunui 08-02-06, 03:18 AM	Why not? Did I do something wrong? I doubt it. I think it's just that people have lost interest. That's what I've found happens quite a lot on these boards. People lose interest and your thread just wastes away, even if you haven't got the answers you wanted ... Sorry.
periscope 08-02-06, 05:04 PM	Any advice on how to grab peoples attention?
pukunui 08-02-06, 05:12 PM	Any advice on how to grab people attention? Maybe ease up on the pleading ... To be read with your best Strong Bad voice: "It makes you sound like a twelve-years-old boy." Also, just be patient. At least you're page view count is still going up! :) Cheers.
periscope 08-02-06, 05:19 PM	Your probably right, I just hate waiting. By the way, what do you think about the changes I've made.
pukunui 08-02-06, 05:27 PM	Your probably right, I just hate waiting. By the way, what do you think about the changes I've made. I'm not the best person to ask that question. I can't really comment on a lot of your changes because I have no experience with some of those classes - like the marshal, truenamer, incarnate, warmage, etc. I've got the PHB2, but I haven't yet played with the knight class, so I don't know if it needs tweaking or not. I'm also not at all familiar with any of the alternate versions you mentioned for other classes. The main reason I started posting on your thread was because of your proposed changes to the sorceror. I was thinking about doing something similar -- I just hate all that blank space on the sorceror's 'special abilities' list (I know, stupid reason for changing something, but still ...), and I like the idea of tying in the heritage feats more closely. Edit: Oh, look, we're on page 2 already! That might get more people interested ...
periscope 08-02-06, 06:48 PM	A lot of people were complaining about the knight and the truenamer and the sorceror so I just thought giving them a tweak might help them. For the sorceror, Im thinking that a bonus heritage feat at every level that a wizard would gain a metamagic feat would be good. As I said before, I really like the concepts of the knight and truenamer. The knight as the aforementioned immovable object that is cool, calm, and collected as opposed to the barbarians unstoppable force that untamed, wild, and going off instinct (everones gone into a barbarian rage at least once in their life and Im in no way bashing the barbarian, I love the class). The truenamer to me is like a hacker (or cracker [not the racial term, the term for the stereotype of hackers] as a hacker friend of mine told me the difference between hackers and crackers) with the world as his computer. By the way, Im thinking of making a new utterance of the evolving mind that would the proper way duplicate a shout spell mixed with a shatter spell while reversed covers an area with a silence spell and mending spell. What level do you think it shoud be?
pukunui 08-02-06, 06:52 PM	I don't know anything about the alternate forms of magic (true name, pact, shadow, and incarnum?) or the classes that go along with them. I've never read any of those supplements. So I haven't really got a clue what you're talking about there. Sorry. As for the sorceror, I really like the idea of giving heritage feats as bonuses, too, the only problem is that they weren't designed that way, so the only one that's really properly thought out is the Draconic Heritage path (i.e. it's got a starting point - Draconic Heritage - 7 optional feats that give you extra abilities - then a super-duper feat that gives you nice bonuses if you've got 4 other ones already). None of the others have as many feats, nor are they designed the way the Draconic Heritage path is. I would like to make more, so as not to turn the sorceror into a dragon-mage, but I don't really know how or where to begin.
periscope 08-03-06, 12:56 AM	If you look at the feats on the first page, there are a number of heritage feats I've managed to pick up that might help. We need to make a couple more but thats about it. If you get a heritage feat at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th you should be able to pick up a full heritage but maybe I should make it a 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th, or 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, 18th and so on. Or maybe one at 1st and 2nd, 5th, 8th, 11th, 13th, 16th, and 19th. I've also found a bunch at a website. Since its a free website I will assume that I will be able to post them here so: Air Bloodline One of your ancestors was a creature of elemental air. Beings associated with this element come in almost endless variety, and your characteristics might vary with the type of elemental creature from which you are descended. Regardless of your exact ancestry, you are likely to have blue eyes and wild, unkempt hair. Prerequisite: Elemental Sorceror Heritage (air), sorceror 1 The descendants of cloud giants tend to be tall, loud, and often arrogant, but they have a strong appreciation for beauty. Characters with storm giant ancestors, on the other hand, tend toward gentleness and tolerance, but they can display violent tempers when provoked. Descendants of elemental flying creatures display a predatory nature in their movements and behavior, always preferring to keep the advantage of height and distance when dealing with others. Dust mephits produce skinny, morbid descendants, air mephits pass along their lively nature, and ice mephits lend their aloof and distant manner to their posterity. Restless and moody, sorcerers with the Air Bloodline feat often adventure just to move. They might seem apathetic at times, but they can surprise others with quick emotional displays. Such characters tend to be impatient when others want to be still, and they enjoy spending long periods of time in debate Clan: Ability to cast arcane spells without preparation. Benefit: Your ancestry gives you a bonus spell known at each spell level, starting at 1st, according to the following list. * 1. Obscuring mist * 2. Gust of wind * 3. Wind wall * 4. Shout * 5. Telekinesis * 6. Control winds * 7. Ethereal jaunt * 8. Summon monster VIII (elementals and outsiders with the air subtype only) * 9. Freedom Special: If a character takes this feat any time after 1st level and has already learned any of the spells on this list in the class that granted him access to this feat, he gains no additional spells known at those spell levels. This restriction does not apply if he learned any of these spells as a member of another spellcasting class. Anarchic Bloodline You are descended from a chaotic outsider. The characteristics you display might depend in part on the kind of chaotic heritage you have. Regardless of your exact ancestry, you are likely to have one or more unusual physical traits, such as mismatched eyes or untamable and strangely hued hair. The descendants of demons tend to have misshapen features and a terrible temper with a decidedly cruel streak. Eladrin descendants tend to have strong emotional reactions (especially positive emotions) and often become fervent (if short-term) supporters of a cause. Characters with slaad ancestry generally have strongly variable mood swings, and they often take on the personality traits, speech patterns. and clothing styles of those around them in a haphazard and unpredictable manner. Those with titan blood often stand head-and-shoulders above other members of their race; they enjoy experiencing the world around them and become angry where others might merely be bored. Characters with the Anarchic Bloodline feat are nearly always chaotic aligned. They tend to be restless, desiring change above all else. They are prone to act irrationally, based on sudden whims and flights of fancy. The adventurous life, full of excitement, danger, and travel, appeals them. Chaos-blooded characters often have a wide variety of spells in their repertoire from all schools and for all manner of uses. They rarely focus their spells around a theme or with a specific function in mind. Prerequisite: Sorceror level 1, Anarchic Heritage feat Benefit: Your ancestry gives you a bonus spell known at each spell level, starting at 1st, from the following list. 1. Color spray 2. Tasha's hideous laughter 3. Rage 4. Confusion 5. Mindfog 6. Mislead 7. Prismatic spray 8. Maze 9. Weird Special: If a character takes this feat any time after 1st level and has already learned any of the spells on this list in the class to which she applies this feat, she gains no additional spells known at those spell levels. This restriction does not apply if she learned any of these spells as a member of another spellcasting class. Anarchic Resistance You are descended from creatures native to the planes of chaos. You share some of your ancestors' natural resistance to effects that would reshape your form, and you are resistant to the magic of lawful foes. Prerequisite: Sorceror level 1, anarchic heritage feat. Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on saving throws against polymorph or petrification effects. You also gain a +1 bonus on saving throws against spells or other effects created by lawful creatures. Aquatic Fey Bloodline Your ancestry contains an aquatic fey creature. The characteristics you display might depend in part on the kind of fey heritage you have. Characters with fey bloodlines vary in appearance, but are almost always strikingly beautiful. Those descended from nymphs typically have pointed ears, and nonelves often confuse them with elves. Descendants of sirines tend to be wistful, and - like their fey parent - often have a slight yellow or green tinge to their skin and silvery or light-green hair. Fossergrim-blooded characters are usually male, have light hair and striking blue eyes, and exude a rugged masculinity. Those descended from kelpies vary in appearance greatly but almost universally possess evil hearts filled with darkness. While not exactly fey, many believe selkies descended from fey creatures. Characters with selkie blood typically have light gray, blond, or deep red hair, and often have slightly webbed hands and feet. Sorcerers with aquatic fey blood have a natural aptitude for casting enchantment spells (particularly those of the charm and mind-affecting descriptors), transmutation spells (as many aquatic fey are known for their ability to shapechange, and water spells. Prerequisite: Sorceror level 1, fey heritage feat Benefit: Your ancestry gives you a bonus spell known at each spell level, starting at 1st, from the following list. * 1st - Charm person * 2nd - Alter self * 3rd - Water breathing * 4th - Charm monster * 5th - Mindfog * 6th - Control water * 7th - Control weather * 8th - Horrid wilting * 9th - Shapechange Special: If a character takes this feat anytime after 1st level and has already learned any of the spells on this list in the class to which she applies this feat, she gains no additional spells known at those spell levels. This restriction does not apply if she learned any of these spells as a member of another spell-casting class. Characters with this feat cannot learn or cast spells from the conjuration (creation) or conjuration (healing) subschools, and all such spells are removed from the spell lists of all their spellcasting classes. Axiomatic Bloodline You are descended from a native of a lawful plane. The most common members of this bloodline are the spawns of devils, who sow their seed in the Material Plane as part of far reaching and complex plots against their rivals. Archons create mixed-blood offspring with mortals in order to counter the machinations of devils and other evil outsiders. Rarely, mortal travelers who spend a significant portion of their lives in a lawfully aligned plane begin to take on some of the traits of that plane that later manifest in their descendants. Members of this bloodline are almost exclusively lawful. They seem driven by an inner set of rules that generally work in accordance with the laws of the land. They tend to have a symmetrical appearance, dress conservatively, and stick to a regimented life. Even when adventuring, they follow their routine the best of their ability. Creatures descended from devils tend to use rules for their benefit, manipulating the system and taking advantage of legal loopholes. Descendants of archons practice the gentler aspects of regimen, living lives in as organized a fashion as possible. Characters with the Axiomatic Bloodline feat tend to be organized and consistent; they generally look down on abnormality or spontaneity. As such, those with lawful blood excel at spells that locate items and creatures as well as spells that return things to their proper place or shape. Prerequisite: Sorceror 1, axiomatic heritage Benefit: Your ancestry gives you a bonus spell known at each spell level, starting at 1st, from the following list. 1. Detect chaos 2. Locate object 3. Magic circle against chaos 4. Locate creature 5. Dismissal 6. True seeing 7. Forcecage 8. Discern location 9. Dominate monster Special: If a character takes this feat any time after 1st level and has already learned any of the spells on this list in the class to which she applies this feat, she gains no additional spells known at those spell levels. This restriction does not apply if she learned any of these spells as a member of another spellcasting class. Axiomatic Resistance You are descended from creatures native to the planes of law. You share some of your ancestors' natural resistance to charms, and you are resistant to the magic of chaotic foes. Prerequisite: Sorceror level 1, axiomatic heritage Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on Will saving throws against enchantment (charm) spells and effects. You also gain a +1 bonus on saving throws against spells or other effects created by chaotic creatures. Bloodline of Fire You are descended from the efreet who ruled Calimshan long ago. The blood of these fire spirits runs thick in your veins. Prerequisite: Sorceror level 1, Elemental heritage (fire) Benefit: You receive a +4 bonus on saving throws against fire effects. In addition, you cast spells with the fire descriptor at +2 caster level. Special: You may select this feat only as a 1st-level character. You may have only one regional feat. Celestial Bloodline One of your distant ancestors was a good outsider. The characteristics you display might depend in part on the kind of celestial heritage you have. Descendants of devas or archons tend to be very decisive - quick to judge and quick to act. Characters with couatl or lillend ancestors are often physically beautiful, and they tend to favor snakes and other reptiles as familiars. Titan-blooded descendants are usually taller than average for their races, and they usually have boisterous personalities. The most common sources of celestial blood, however, are minor good gods or the avatars of more powerful beings. A sorcerer descended from such a line can be very passionate about his faith, whether he follows his ancestor's religion or not. Characters with the Celestial Bloodline feat are usually good-aligned, although not always. Their yearn for adventure stems either from a desire to aid others, an innate need to combat evil, or both. As such, celestial-blooded characters tend to focus their spell selections on good- or neutral-aligned spells that aid others. Prerequisite: Sorceror level 1, celestial heritage Benefit: Your ancestry gives you a bonus spell known at each spell level, starting at 1st, according to the following list. * 1. Protection from evil * 2. Daylight * 3. Magic circle against evil * 4. Rainbow pattern * 5. Dismissal * 6. Guards and wards * 7. Sequester * 8. Sunburst * 9. Summon monster IX (good outsiders only) Special: If a character takes this feat any time after 1st level and has already learned any of the spells on this list in the class to which she applies this feat, she gains no additional spells known at those spell levels. This restriction does not apply if she learned any of these spells as a member of another spellcasting class. Celestial Resistance You are descended from creatures native to the Upper Planes. You share some of your ancestors' natural resistance to disease, and you are resistant to the magic of evil foes. Prerequisite: Sorceror level 1, Celestial Heritage Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on Fortitude saving throws against disease. You also gain a +1 bonus on saving throws against spells or other effects created by evil creatures. Draconic Bloodline You are descended from a dragon. The dragon bloodline is strong in both physical power and magic. Your characteristics might vary with the type of dragon from which you are descended, but you share some traits with others of draconic blood. Like your majestic reptilian ancestor, you are proud and of noble bearing, and you might even share its coloration in some way. Although characters with draconic blood can have any alignment, they are prone to mimic their dragon ancestor's personalities. Others often see them as somewhat arrogant and obsessive, but the dragon-blooded usually feel justifiably proud of their abilities. Spellcasters with draconic ancestors love knowledge and beautiful items, and they often adventure to acquire one or the other. Their spell selections tend toward either flamboyant, combat-oriented spells, or knowledge-gathering spells. Sorcerers of this bloodline favor the same environments as their dragon ancestors. Prerequisite: Sorceror level 1, draconic heritage Benefit: Your ancestry gives you a bonus spell known at each spell level, starting at 1st, according to the following list. * 1. Comprehend languages * 2. Darkvision * 3. Protection from elements * 4. Fear * 5. Mind fog * 6. True seeing * 7. Vision * 8. Mind blank * 9. Dominate monster Special: If a character takes this feat any time after 1st level and has already learned any of the spells on this list in the class to which she applies this feat, she gains no additional spells known at those spell levels. This restriction does not apply if she learned any of these spells as a member of another spellcasting class. Earth Bloodline You are descended from a creature of elemental earth. Your heritage probably stems from one of the humanoid-shaped beings from the Elemental Plane of Earth, although elemental earth creatures native to the Material Plane can contribute this bloodline as well. Regardless of the exact earth creature in your ancestry, you probably have a hardy, solid-looking body and dark coloration, and you might even exude an earthy smell. Stone giants produce long, lean descendants who tend to be shy but playful. The progeny of earth mephits are generally stubborn, while those of salt mephits are often gifted with a sarcastic wit. Characters with gargoyle blood tend to be territorial and prone to violence, especially when it comes to protecting what is theirs. Some would say that sorcerers with the Earth Bloodline feat are unchanging, but this assessment is not entirely true. Rather, they are slow to change - not to mention tough, determined, and unwavering in their goals. They generally enjoy being underground, so they like to delve into dungeons and other subterranean locales. Prerequisite: Sorceror level 1, Elemental Heritage (Earth) Benefit: Your ancestry gives you a bonus spell known at each spell level, starting at 1st, according to the following list. * 1. Enlarge person * 2. Shatter * 3. Keen edge * 4. Stone shape * 5. Transmute mud to rock * 6. Move earth * 7. Statue * 8. Iron body * 9. Summon monster IX (elementals and outsiders with the earth subtype only) Special: If a character takes this feat any time after 1st level and has already learned any of the spells on this list in the class that granted her access to this feat, she gains no additional spells known at those spell levels. This restriction does not apply if she learned any of these spells as a member of another spellcasting class. Earthen Resistance You are descended from creatures native to the Elemental Plane of Earth. You share some of your ancestors' natural stability and physical power. Prerequisite: Sorceror level 1, Elemental Heritage (Earth) Benefit: Your stability grants you a +4 bonus on checks to avoid being bull rushed or tripped while standing on the ground. This bonus stacks with the benefits of similar effects, such as a dwarf's stability. .You also gain a +1 bonus on weapon damage rolls if both you and your foe touch the ground. Fey Bloodline One of your ancestors was a fey creature, or was raised as such. Fey sometimes take humanoid mates, or capture children and raise them as their own. Fey-blooded characters vary greatly in appearance, but most have some odd feature that marks them, such as a strange eye or hair color. The heirs of dryads are often quite shy, but they possess quick minds and an earthy sort of beauty. Grig-blooded characters are mischievous and light-hearted, while those with pixie blood are prone to take their pranks too far. Characters with nixie blood are suspicious beings who tend to avoid strangers but remain fiercely loyal to places or persons they love. Sorcerers with fey blood often have changing, fickle natures. They are quick to laugh and play tricks, but slow to forgive or forget slights. They adventure primarily out of a sense of alienation, seeking some place or group to which they can belong. They are fond of spells that deceive and manipulate emotions, such as charm person. Prerequisite: Sorceror level 1, Fey Heritage Benefit: Your ancestry grants you a bonus spell known at each spell level, starting at 1st, according to the following list. * 1. Detect secret doors * 2. Glitterdust * 3. Tongues * 4. Hallucinatory terrain * 5. Seeming * 6. Mislead * 7. Sequester * 8. Otto's irresistible dance * 9. Wail of the banshee Special: If a character takes this feat any time after 1st level and has already learned any of the spells on this list in the class that granted him access to this feat, he gains no additional spells known at those spell levels. This restriction does not apply if he learned any of these spells as a member of another spellcasting class. Fey's Fate You are touched by the luck of your ancestors. Prerequisite: Fey Heritage, Sorceror level 1 Benefit: You get a +1 bonus on all saving throws per 3 fey feats you have. Fiendish Bloodline One of your distant ancestors was an evil outsider. The characteristics you display might depend in part on the kind of fiendish heritage you have. Many of your bloodline are dark in coloration, although great variation can exist depending on your specific ancestry. Evil outsiders such as demons and devils produce a surprisingly large number of offspring on the Material Plane. Their descendants are frequently (but not always) evil. Demon-blooded characters and others descended from beings native to the chaotic evil realms are usually chaotic themselves, and at their worst they can be prone to greedy or lustful behavior. Those with devil-blood, on the other hand, tend to be lawful. They have no compunctions about bending the rules as far as possible, but they rarely break them. Like their fiendish ancestors, devil-spawn are known for keeping their word. Characters with fiendish blood often seem driven - even haunted - by the potential for evil within them, especially if they try to hold to a neutral or good path. They frequently adventure out of a restlessness caused by their own internal struggles, although sometimes they do so simply because they enjoy killing, and adventuring provides a perfect outlet for that tendency. Such characters usually prefer spells of darkness and deception, even if they are good-aligned. Prerequisite: Sorceror level 1, Infernal Sorceror Heritage Benefit: Your ancestry gives you a bonus spell known at each spell level, starting at 1st, according to the following list. * 1. Protection from good * 2. Darkness * 3. Sepia snake sigil * 4. Bestow curse * 5. Nightmare * 6. Mislead * 7. Insanity * 8. Maze * 9. Imprisonment Special: If a character takes this feat any time after 1st level and has already learned any of the spells on this list in the class that granted her access to this feat, she gains no additional spells known at those spell levels. This restriction does not apply if she learned any of these spells as a member of another spellcasting class. Fire Bloodline One of your ancestors was a creature of elemental fire. Your physical characteristics might vary with the type of elemental creature from which you are descended, but you're likely to have wild red or coal black hair, and either smoky gray or golden eyes. Your heritage probably stems from one of the humanoid-shaped beings from the Plane of Elemental Fire, although elemental fire creatures native to the Material Plane can contribute this bloodline as well. The Descendants of azers see fire as a tool, and they love crafts that control the power of flame. They tend to prefer a regimented life and usually keep their destructive natures in tight check, although they are no less dangerous because of that forbearance. The descendants of fire mephits have a mischievous nature and enjoy destructive pranks, while characters with steam mephits in their ancestry consider themselves above such behavior and often look down on others with considerable arrogance. Fire giant spawn can be ruthless in achieving their goals, and even others with fire blood see them as brutal. None, however, can be as cruel as the descendants of salamanders. Usually hot-tempered and unpredictable, characters with the Fire Bloodline feat can also be passionate, egotistical, and unusually prone to destructive behavior. They usually adventure for a chance at personal gain and glory. Fire holds a primal fascination and fear for most creatures, and scions of this bloodline use that to their advantage, often choosing mind-affecting spells to supplement their preferred destructive flame spells. Prerequisite: Sorceror level 1, Elemental Sorceror Heritage (Fire) Benefit: Your ancestry gives you a bonus spell known at each spell level, starting at 1st, according to the following list. * 1. Hypnotism * 2. Pyrotechnics * 3. Tongues* * 4. Fire shield * 5. Cloudkill** * 6. Summon monster VI (elementals and outsiders with the fire subtype only) * 7. Delayed blast fireball * 8. Sunburst * 9. Meteor swarm *The subject's tongue resembles a tongue of flame. **The fog produced has a smoky smell and quality. Special: If a character takes this feat any time after 1st level and has already learned any of the spells on this list in the class that granted him access to this feat, he gains no additional spells known at those spell levels. This restriction does not apply if he learned any of these spells as a member of another spellcasting class. Fire Heritage You are descended from creatures native to the Elemental Plane of Fire. You share some of your ancestors' natural reaction speed, and your natural attacks are red-hot. Prerequisites: Sorceror level 1, Elemental Sorceror Heritage (Fire) Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on initiative checks. In addition, your unarmed attacks and natural weapons deal an extra 2 points of fire damage. Infernal Sorceror Resilience You are descended from creatures native to the Lower Planes. You share their hard to kill nature. Prerequisties: Sorceror level 1, Infernal Sorceror Heritage Benefit: If you are chaotic or had a chaotic infernal ancestor (normally declared when you take the infernal heritage feat) your gain Damage Reduction 1/cold iron for every Infernal Sorceror feat you possess. If you are lawful or had a lawful infernal ancestor (normally declared when you take the infernal heritage feat) your gain Damage Reduction 1/silver for every Infernal Sorceror feat you possess. If you are neutral or had a neutral infernal ancestor (normally declared when you take the infernal heritage feat) you choose which metal bypasses your damage reduction. You cannot change it at a later date unless you change to a lawful or chaotic alignment at which point your damage reduction switches to the appropriate one. Infernal Soceror Prescence You are descended from creatures native to the Lower Planes. You share some of you ancestors intimidating nature. Prerequisites: Sorceror level 1, Infernal Sorceror Heritage Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on intimidate and sense motive checks as you have an almost instinctual feel for what to do to scare the **** out of people. Umbral Bloodline You are descended from a planar traveler who frequented the Ethereal Plane or Plane of Shadow. The energies of these planes altered and augmented your ancestor, infusing your bloodline with a trace of shadow or ether. You are touched by the planes, and they grant you arcane powers that continue to shape your life. Penumbra-blooded creatures tend toward extremes in coloration with either unusually dark or fair skin, black or stark white hair, and silver or black irises. Most are very thin, but not to the point of unhealthiness. They generally wear plain clothing in subdued hues of gray or white. Creatures with shadowy or ethereal ancestry tend toward neutrality and often have quiet, secretive personalities. Many penumbra-blooded creatures prefer dark places and void direct sunlight as much as possible. Sorcerers who possess a penumbral ancestor favor spells that conceal places and people as well as spells that access the Plane of Shadow or Ethereal Plane. Prerequisite: Sorceror level 1, Umbral Sorceror Heritage Benefit: Your ancestry gives you a bonus spell known at each spell level, starting at 1st, from the following list. 1. Obscuring mist 2. Darkness 3. Nondetection 4. Evard's black tentacles 5. Shadow evocation 6. Shadow walk 7. Plane shift 8. Greater shadow evocation 9. Etherealness Special: If a character takes this feat any time after 1st level and has already learned any of the spells on this list in the class to which she applies this feat, she gains no additional spells known at those spell levels. This restriction does not apply if she learned any of these spells as a member of another spellcasting class. Umbral Expertise Your shadow-based spells are more real. Prerequisite: Sorceror level 1, Umbral Sorceror Heritage Benefit: Your illusion (shadow) spells deal one-fifth (20%) more real damage if disbelieved. For example, a creature summoned with a shadow conjuration spell deals two-fifths (40%) of the damage a real creature of the same kind would deal if the target of the spell disbelieves it, instead of only one-fifth (20%). Umbral sight You are descended from one of the creatures native to the plane of shadow. They have gifted you with an ability to percieve in the darkness as well as a way to force it upon your opponents. Prerequisites: Sorceror level 1, Umbral Sorceror Heritage Benefits: You gain Darkvision out to 60 ft. You also gain a special method of attacking. You may (as a standard action) expend a spell slot to hurl an orb of shadow as a ranged touch attack. If successful the target is blinded for a number of rounds equal to the level of the spell slot your expended +1. They must also make a will save (DC 10+ the level of the spell you expended+ your Charisma modifier) or be panicked until they can see again. The orb of shadow also muffles sound, making any spell with a verbal component has a 20 % chance of failure and they can not make any loud noises with their mouth (to see how loud a sound they could make, cram your head into a pillow or cover your mouth with both hands and yell at the top of your lungs, that's about how much noise you could make). Water Bloodline You have a creature of elemental water as an ancestor. Your physical characteristics might vary with the type of elemental creature from which you are descended, but you're likely to have blue, green, or white coloration. Water blood stems both from planar elemental beings and creatures native to the Material Plane that have a strong affinity for water. Triton spawn often seem well meaning but distant. Characters who can trace their water heritage directly to a being from the Elemental Plane of Water, however, can seem downright cold to others. Water-blooded characters adventure for a number of reasons, but they all seem driven to go forward, go deeper, and overcome any obstacles in their paths. Some deep-seated instinct teaches them to be aware of what's going on around them, since death can come from any direction underwater. Since fluids are so adaptable, characters with this bloodline are fond of spells that deal with change. Prerequisite: Sorceror level 1, elemental heritage feat (water) Benefit: Your ancestry gives you a bonus spell known at each spell level, starting at 1st, according to the following list. * 1. Expeditious retreat * 2. Fog cloud * 3. Water breathing * 4. Quench * 5. Transmute rock to mud * 6. Otiluke's freezing sphere * 7. Control weather * 8. Summon monster VIII (elementals and outsiders with the water subtype) * 9. Elemental swarm (water elementals only) Special: If a character takes this feat any time after 1st level and has already learned any of the spells on this list in the class that granted him access to this feat, he gains no additional spells known at those spell levels. This restriction does not apply if he learned any of these spells as a member of another spellcasting class. Waters Rush You are descended from creatures native to the Element Plane of Water. You share some of your ancestors' natural aquatic talents. Benefit: You gain a swim speed of 20 feet, or your existing swim speed increases by 20 feet. Also, you gain a +4 bonus on Constitution checks made hold your breath. A creature with a swim speed also gains +8 racial bonus on Swim checks made to perform some special action or avoid a hazard, and can take to on Swim check even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line. What do you think of this expanded set? Again I do not claim to be the maker of any of these feats though I may have tweaked some of them.
pukunui 08-03-06, 01:06 AM	My idea was that at 1st level, a sorceror/sorceress would choose a heritage feat path from a list (thereby making the origins of their abilities more than just flavor), then at certain points during their level progression, they would get a bonus heritage feat that they choose from a list of optional feats in their chosen path, culminating at 20th level in a bonus feat akin to the Draconic Legacy feat in the Draconic Heritage path -- sort of like the ultimate realization of their heritage powers. For instance: 1st level - Draconic Heritage 5th level - choose one: Draconic Breath, Draconic Claw, Draconic Flight 10th level - choose one: as above plus Draconic Resistance, Draconic Skin 15th level - choose one: as above plus Draconic Power, Draconic Presence 20th level - Draconic Legacy The problem is that none of the other heritage feat groups are anywhere near as fleshed out as the Draconic Heritage path, which has 9 feats altogether, with a starting feat, several middle of the road feats (but too many to get them all), and an ultimate feat. In order to make it a viable addition to the sorceror base class (without turning it into a niche class, such as a dragon-mage), though, the other heritage feat paths would need to be fleshed out and possibly reorganized to be more like the Draconic Heritage path (but not exactly alike, or else it really would make no difference which path you ended up choosing ...). So that's my dilemma -- because I don't feel I have the expertise to remake and balance the other heritage feats to make viable alternatives to the Draconic Heritage, which in my mind is really the best laid-out one.
periscope 08-03-06, 03:21 AM	Check out the ones I just posted. Also I just think a bonus heritage feat every few levels would be fine, no need to say since you picked this you cant pick this now even though you meet all the prerequisties.
pukunui 08-03-06, 03:40 PM	Check out the ones I just posted. Also I just think a bonus heritage feat every few levels would be fine, no need to say since you picked this you cant pick this now even though you meet all the prerequisties. I think those bloodline things are from Unearthed Arcana -- maybe tweaked a bit so they're just for the sorceror. Not really sure. I just like the way the Draconic Heritage path is laid out, and none of the others match it for completeness. Also, I think you're giving them too many. It should only be a few. I envision it to be more like the rogue's high level special abilities - there are more to choose from than slots available, so you can't have them all. That way you can customize a bit - no two chars are the same in terms of the 'extras'. The thing with Draconic Legacy is that you have to have 4 other Draconic Heritage feats already in order to get it, and it's pretty powerful -- it gives you bonus spells depending on your dragon heritage type. That's why it seems to me to be a good 20th-level culmination of the sorceror's heritage. Also, I would be integrating the heritage feats into the class more so they wouldn't really be feats anymore -- just special bonuses you get for having picked a certain path at 1st level. More like the bloodlines, I guess.
periscope 08-03-06, 06:54 PM	How about one at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th like a wizard and his metamagic feats then? Also these may have been bloodlines but I just tweaked them so that they would be good as feats and if you want it all your going to have to invest more than just bonus feats in it. And maybe we need to make one more feat for each (Celestial, Infernal, Fey, Green, Elemental, and Umbral) called [Insert race] legacy that would give them something similar to Dragonic Legacy and having the basic requirements (4 feats of one racial tree). Celestial Legacy Prerequisites: 4 or more Celestial Heritage feats, Sorceror level 1 Benefits: ????? Infernal Legacy Prerequisites: 4 or more Infernal Heritage feats, Sorceror level 1 Benefits: ????? Fey Legacy Prerequistes: 4 or more Fey Heritage feats, Sorceror level 1 Benefits: ????? Green Legacy Prerequistes: 4 or more Green Sorceror feats, Sorceror level 1 Benefits: ????? Elemental Legacy Prerequistes: 4 or more Elemental Heritage feats, Sorceror level 1 Benefits: ????? Umbral Legacy Prerequistes: 4 or more Umbral Heritage feats, Sorceror level 1 Benefits: ????? Feel free to suggest benefits.
pukunui 08-03-06, 07:22 PM	How about one at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th like a wizard and his metamagic feats then? That's precisely what I suggested above ... I'll repeat my example here: 1st level - Draconic Heritage 5th level - choose one: Draconic Breath, Draconic Claw, Draconic Flight 10th level - choose one: as above plus Draconic Resistance, Draconic Skin 15th level - choose one: as above plus Draconic Power, Draconic Presence 20th level - Draconic Legacy By doing it this way, the sorceror can't qualify for Draconic Legacy until 20th level anyway because you need 4 heritage feats to get it, and you'll only be getting 4 heritage feats before then. As for the other heritage paths, yes -- that's what I was thinking. They'd all end up with a 20th level Heritage Legacy bonus feat, but what benifits are granted, I don't know. Also, there would need to be more 5-10-15 level options for the other heritage paths, as none of them have as many as the Draconic one. Celestial has 5, Infernal only has 4, and most of the others only have one or two.
periscope 08-03-06, 07:37 PM	That's precisely what I suggested above ... I'll repeat my example here: 1st level - Draconic Heritage 5th level - choose one: Draconic Breath, Draconic Claw, Draconic Flight 10th level - choose one: as above plus Draconic Resistance, Draconic Skin 15th level - choose one: as above plus Draconic Power, Draconic Presence 20th level - Draconic Legacy By doing it this way, the sorceror can't qualify for Draconic Legacy until 20th level anyway because you need 4 heritage feats to get it, and you'll only be getting 4 heritage feats before then. As for the other heritage paths, yes -- that's what I was thinking. They'd all end up with a 20th level Heritage Legacy bonus feat, but what benifits are granted, I don't know. Also, there would need to be more 5-10-15 level options for the other heritage paths, as none of them have as many as the Draconic one. Celestial has 5, Infernal only has 4, and most of the others only have one or two. No you must have misunderstood me. I was saying just a flat "chose any heritage feat you qualify for" bonus feat. The way your doing it, they cant something like Draconic Skin before 10th level, even if they want to invest a regular feat and get it. Also the feats on this page and on the last page have a lot of extra feats, every single one of which Im converting to a heritage feat. Im also telling people in my campaign who are thinking of making a sorceror, you can have two or more different heritages but you had better have a good explanation about how that came about for each one.
pukunui 08-03-06, 07:56 PM	No you must have misunderstood me. I was saying just a flat "chose any heritage feat you qualify for" bonus feat. The way your doing it, they cant something like Draconic Skin before 10th level, even if they want to invest a regular feat and get it. Also the feats on this page and on the last page have a lot of extra feats, every single one of which Im converting to a heritage feat. Im also telling people in my campaign who are thinking of making a sorceror, you can have two or more different heritages but you had better have a good explanation about how that came about for each one. We've misunderstood each other. My idea is that they won't be feats anymore -- more like powers or special abilities. I would make it so they couldn't choose them as regular feats or bonus feats. And if you look at ones like Draconic Presence, you'll see it seems more in line with something that a higher-level character should have than a lower-level one, whereas Draconic Claw doesn't seem all that big a deal. That's why I put some limits on when the different 'feats' could be chosen. I would say they can't have more than one heritage, either -- it would just get too complicated.
periscope 08-03-06, 08:53 PM	There was another post which addressed the idea of having more than one heritage and one of the posters showed how its not that hard to have even a celestial/fiendish/dragon heritage. I think it went something like this 1000 years ago The character great great great great (etc., etc., etc.) grandmother is wed and mothers a child by a dragon (lets say silver, they like to hang around with the humanoids). Their half dragon child has children, and they have children, and so on for 358 years. The great great (etc., .....) grandson is a paladin who marries a celstial elf. Their kids have kids and son and so on until 752 years later, their great great (again etc., ....) granddaughter has children with a tiefling. 1000 years your character was born with potential for dragon, celestial, and fiendish abilities. Also, I like keeping them as feats and just giving them bonus feats otherwise you would have to keep on advancing your sorceror class to gain the higher abilities, where as being able to activate these abilities seems more of a journey or self enlightenment and discovery, looking deep within ones blood and unlocking the potential that lies therein.
pukunui 08-03-06, 09:03 PM	Yes, I can understand the concept behind having multiple heritages ... I just think that mechanically it would be a bit complicated. Also, part of the reason for making them special abilities rather than feats is so that you would continue to advance as a sorceror ... seems to me like hardly anyone sticks with the class through 20 levels. There's not a lot of motivation. So if you make it so that your supernatural heritage manifests itself more as your arcane powers grow, then it might actually be fun to get to 20th level sans multiclassing or prestige classing. Edit: Also, even if an individual had multiple supernatural heritages, it's highly unlikely that all of them would manifest ... having just one supernatural heritage manifesting itself is rare enough (the entry for aasimars and tieflings talks about how their parents and siblings are usually just normal humans, despite having the same genes).
periscope 08-03-06, 09:25 PM	Since when are pc's just plain? I think its almost a requirement for a pc to have a crazy and wierd backstory. Plus there is always the spells and the fact that the heritage feats can be bonus feats and saves your other feats for things such as metamagic feats and (when you qualify for it) the Improved Toughness feat which is a lifesaver for any class with a d4 hit dice.
periscope 08-04-06, 03:09 PM	Hello? Anybody?
periscope 08-04-06, 10:11 PM	Bump
chromeraven 08-05-06, 02:23 PM	I like the changes. personally i don't have a beef with any of the core classes, but I can see where some do. re The Bastion: give him combat forms in his bonus feat choices. I would give combat stability rather than powerful build or defensive stance that have been mentioned. I just like it better. sorcerer changes are good. nixing heritages as being able to be invested in with feats is bad. Look into the dragon sorcerer or whatever it is in races of the dragon that gives caster levels + heritage bonus feats for that type of advancement. give them item creation/metamagic/heritage as their selectable feats (wizard has item creation/metamagic/spell mastery). also, i like the metamagic sorcerer from phb II. your gestalt guy should go brawler/incarnate. my 2cents, your mileage may vary.
periscope 08-05-06, 04:41 PM	Im also disallowing any and all prestige classes that give them bonus heritage feats as part of the process. If you want bonus heritage feats, keep going sorceror. I'll also make those changes to the bastion you suggested.
periscope 08-06-06, 12:27 PM	Oh and Im having the sorceror or wizard use the variants of out of the PHB II, if you want a familiar, there's a feat that will allow you to do it. I just need an idea for the wizard that doesnt specialize. Im thinking maybe 1 extra spell per day for each level of spell or something like that, or maybe give them the Improved Counterspell feat since they will be familiar with all schools of magic, they should be good at nixing them.
periscope 08-06-06, 05:01 PM	Hello? Not this again! What do I need to do to get posts? Get Baaleh from PAWN to dance on the screen?! :D
periscope 08-07-06, 11:18 AM	Bump
pukunui 08-07-06, 04:13 PM	Give it a rest, mate. This board is full of "I tweaked the base classes what do you think" threads. People are probably tired of giving their opinions. Do some playtesting and get back to us or something. Please.
periscope 08-08-06, 02:18 AM	I apologize for bothering everybody, it's just that this is the first world I designed (though I probably ripped off more ideas than I should have), I just want it to be a good one. I've DMed before but always with like the Eberron or Faerun books and countries and campaigns, I just want it to go off without a hitch.
periscope 08-08-06, 07:20 PM	Made a change to the Shadowcaster.
pukunui 08-08-06, 07:56 PM	I apologize for bothering everybody, it's just that this is the first world I designed (though I probably ripped off more ideas than I should have), I just want it to be a good one. I've DMed before but always with like the Eberron or Faerun books and countries and campaigns, I just want it to go off without a hitch. You can only speculate about things so much. No matter how 'perfect' you get it now, you'll still end up tweaking some things as you go along. It'll be a trial-and-error thing whether you want it to be or not. Also, what do your players think of all the changes to the base classes? In the end, their opinions are the only ones that matter.
periscope 08-08-06, 08:07 PM	They pointed out some of the problems and they are supportive of the changes I've made (showed them about 45 minutes ago). I just wanted some other peoples opinions to point out if anything is ridiculously under or overpowered or just plain stupid.
pukunui 08-08-06, 08:16 PM	They pointed out some of the problems and they are supportive of the changes I've made (showed them about 45 minutes ago). I just wanted some other peoples opinions to point out if anything is ridiculously under or overpowered or just plain stupid. Although I can't comment specifically on your changes, I can say that if any of them were ridiculous, you'd have gotten a lot more comments about it than you have. Arguments over whether something is over or underpowered are the bread and butter of these boards ... (feel free to disagree but that's my impression.) I have to say, I can't help but feel guilty about even contemplating making any changes to the classes as written (d**n LG conscience), but I still think playtesting will get you much better (and faster) results than waiting for people to notice your thread and make a comment.
periscope 08-09-06, 05:26 PM	We are playing them tonight (mainly just character creation and warm up roleplaying). I should be able to give you feedback and playtesting tomorrow or the day after. By the way, feel free to post some info if you choose to use any of these changes. By the way, tell the lawful part of the LG conscious that change is necessary to at least some of these classes (Truenamer, Shadowcaster, Knight, and Sorceror). Never did like lawful :P :D .
pukunui 08-09-06, 06:07 PM	We are playing them tonight (mainly just character creation and warm up roleplaying). I should be able to give you feedback and playtesting tomorrow or the day after. By the way, feel free to post some info if you choose to use any of these changes. By the way, tell the lawful part of the LG conscious that change is necessary to at least some of these classes (Truenamer, Shadowcaster, Knight, and Sorceror). Never did like lawful :P :D . LOL. Out of curiosity, how many players have you got and what are their PCs?
periscope 08-09-06, 07:25 PM	There are 5, a human, elf, a half elf, a half orc, and a halfling.
pukunui 08-09-06, 07:29 PM	There are 5, a human, 2 half elves, a half orc, and a halfling. Interesting mix. Have they picked what classes they're going to play, or will you do that during your first session? (You mentioned character creation as being part of the session ...)
periscope 08-09-06, 07:37 PM	We are still making them and I have to do a revision, the one is playing an elf not a half elf.
periscope 08-09-06, 08:02 PM	Oh and our first session is tonight. We are doing a Gestalt campaign, here are the classes (5 of which are off the boards or community3e.com I'll provide links to the classes) Halfling Gunslinger/Incarnate http://community3e.com/dn/class/GunSlinger.pdf Elf Divine Marksman/Rogue http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=639769 Half Elf Truenamer/Champion The Champion class is on Giantip.com Human Bard/Ultimate Swashbuckler http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=669619 Half Orc Fighter/Onmyouji http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=540803
periscope 08-11-06, 01:15 AM	No more comments, questions, or anything? By the way things are working out great. The Truenamer is able to get a fair number of utterances off consistently, I had them go against a knight who was 1 level above the party (which almost ended in a TPK), and again things are going great.