Changes to Frenzied Beserker [Archive] - Wizards Community

Changes to Frenzied Beserker [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dakota
05-31-04, 12:19 PM Right, myself and the other guys that I roleplay with have hit a slight problem. We want to use the frenzied beserker PrC from the Complete Warrior, but we can't see it as a playable PC class, and we'd hate to see it in the hands of a DM (unless it was considered at least 10 CR higher than us - yay more experience:D)

So myself and the other two guys who are running the next campaigns have come up with their ideas on the Frenzied Beserker.

One of them has decided to drop the Power Attack and the annoying Will Saves to give it more damage reduction, while another one has decided to change the Power Attack for different abilities such as the Final Lesson Feat (if you missed with a Power Attack, but without the penalty you would have hit then you hit but don't gain the damage bonus - Lion Samurai Rokugan) and Combat Brute (If you charge and Power Attack on the next turn then you do x1.5 damage from Power Attack - x3 for a two-handed weapon)

However, while I like the damage reduction idea I wanted to stick to the class a bit and I didn't want to follow in my mate's footsteps and give it things like that, especially when I will be having Samurai running around in my world.

The main worry that we have seen is that deathless frenzy could be too powerful, it makes the character really unplayable and that the Improved and Supreme Power Attack are far too deadly (I mean x4 Power Attack does build up even if you only Power Attack 1)

I'll show my variant on the Frenzied Beserker and any and every comment on what should be done will be appreciated. Although I will warn you that we haven't actually used any Frenzied Beserkers, although I think that that is mainly due to fear for our party's safety.

Right so see the next post.
Dakota
05-31-04, 12:50 PM FRENZIED BESERKER

Hit Die: d12

Requirements

Alignment: Any non-lawful

Base Attack Bonus: +6

Skills: Intimidate - 8 ranks

Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Intimidating Rage, Diehard.

Class Skills

The Frenzied Beserker treats the following skills as class skills:-

Climb, Intimidate, Jump, Swim, Survival, Wilderness Lore

CLASS PROGRESSION

BAB Fort Ref Will Abilities
1. +1 +2 +0 +0 Frenzy 1/day, Diehardy
2. +2 +3 +0 +0 Supreme Cleave
3. +3 +3 +1 +1 Frenzy 2/day
4. +4 +4 +1 +1 Deathless Frenzy
5. +5 +4 +1 +1 Frenzy 3/day, Improved Power Attack
6. +6 +5 +2 +2 Inspire Frenzy 1/day
7. +7 +5 +2 +2 Frenzy 4/day
8. +8 +6 +2 +2 Greater Frenzy, Inspire Frenzy 2/day
9. +9 +6 +3 +3 Frenzy 5/day
10. +10 +7 +3 +3 Inspire Frenzy 3/day, Tireless Frenzy, Supreme Power Attack

CLASS FEATURES

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: The Frenzied Beserker gains no proficiency with any weapons or armour.

Frenzy (Ex):

A Frenzied Beserker can enter a frenzy during combat as a free action on his turn. While frenzied, he gains a +6 bonus to his Strength and when executing a full attack gains another attack at his highest bonus. (This ability does not stack with the haste spell or a speed weapon.) However, while frenzied, he takes a -4 penalty to Armour Class and takes 2 points of lethal damage every round.

A frenzy lasts for a number of rounds equal to the character's Constitution Modifier + 3. If the Frenzeid Beserker wants to end his frenzy voluntarily then he may take a Will Save as a free action. The DC of the save is 10 + the number of rounds that he has been frenzied for. If this save succeeds then he leaves his frenzy. If it fails then he continues his frenzy. During a frenzy the Beserker may not activate any magic items, or drink any potions. Nor may he use any Charisma, Intelligence or Dexterity based skill (except for Intimidate) or the Concentration skill or any abilites that require concentration and patience. He may use any feat that he has barring the Combat Expertise feat and any item creation or metamagic feats.

If the Frenzied Beserker is attacked and has not entered a frenzy already then he must make a DC 5 + (one tenth of the damage dealt since his last action, round up) Will Save to avoid entering a frenzy on his next turn. This save may obviously be failed voluntarily. In combat, if the Frenzied Beserker finds himself with no enemies in front of him then he must charge the nearest target, which may include his allies. However, if he has to charge an ally then the Frenzied Beserker may take a DC 15 Will Save reduced at the GM's discretion (according to how well the Beserker knows the character) to avoid charging him and pick the next closest target. If the Frenzied Beserker has run out of legal non-friendly targets to attack then he must either attack his nearest ally or attemp a save to come out of the Frenzy, but for this he gains a bonus equal to the number of allies he has with him.

When the Frenzied Beserker's Frenzy ends, voluntarily or involuntarily he is fatigued for the duration of the encounter. However, if he is still under the effects of a rage ability then he ignores the fatigue until after the rage ends, when he will be exhausted.

Diehardy (Ex):

Okay I know the name is bad, but live with it. The Frenzied Beserker knows what it feels like to be on Death's door more than any other character and that is shown by the fact that he can still take normal actions from 0 to -20 hit points.

Supreme Cleave (Ex):

The Frenzied Beserker may take a 5-foot step between attacks when using the Cleave or Great Cleave feats. He is still limited to one 5-foot step a turn and may not use this ability if he has already taken a 5-foot step this turn.

Deathless Frenzy (Ex):

This ability may end having the Hit Points required for Death doubled later on, but I will have to see.

When in a Deathless Frenzy the Frenzied Beserker scorns Death and will keep the Collector of Souls stuck on his horse Biggles watching as the egg-timer curves itself slightly to make those last few grains of sand last just a bit longer. (Okay, sorry about that, thin planet riding on elephants on a turtle reference over.)

The Frenzied Beserker may continue to act normally once he has gone below -20 hit points. He may make full actions until he has taken his half of his hit Points again (eg- a Beserker with 300 Hit Points has to take 451 Hit Points before he will die [maybe 600 if I double it as I still am not too sure.]) However, if the Beserker's Frenzy ends and he is on lower than -20 then he dies as most other characters would have done quite a few rounds ago. This ability does not prevent death from massive damage (just for completeness as we took this out, as especially in epic, a 1 in 20 chance of your character dying is too much) or from spell effects such as Slay Living.

Improved Power Attack (Ex):

Beginning at 5th Level the Frenzied Beserker may become a more destructive force on the battlefield. For every 4 points of Power Attack the Frenzied Beserker gains an additional point of Strength in addition to the extra damage for the Power Attack. However, for every 2 points of Power Attack he loses a point of AC and d6 hit points, so for example a Power Attack of 12 would give +3 Strength (and as a result a +1/+2 to hit and extra damage dependant upon the weapon), -6 AC and -6d6 hit points.

Inspire Frenzy (Su):

Unfortunately being around such a lunatic can have a detrimental effect on even the most wisest and intelligent of people and they start to see the Destructive Force and see how they could utilize it. As a result from 6th Level the Frenzied Beserker may inspire Frenzy in his allies if he is frenzied himself. When he uses this ability all willing allies within 10 feet of him gain the advantages and disadvantages of frenzy. This frenzy lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the Frenzied Beserker's Constitution modifier, regardless of where they move afterwards.

Greater Frenzy (Ex):

Starting at 8th Level the Frenzied Beserker's Power increases and he now gains a +10 bonus to strength while Frenzied.

Tireless Frenzy (Ex):

At 10th Level the Frenzied Beserker no longer becomes fatigued at the end of his frenzy.

Supreme Power Attack (Ex):

The Frenzied Beserker has now obtained his greatest strength, however, it comes at a price. For every 2 Points that the Frenzed Beserker has Power Attacked he gains +1 Strength in addition to the extra damage for the Power Attack. However, for every point of Power Attack he loses a point of AC and d6 hit points. So keeping the old example, if he Power Attacks 12 he gains +6 Strength (+3/+4 to hit and extra damage), -12 AC, and -12d6 Hit Points.
Dakota
05-31-04, 01:48 PM The main things that I'm worried about with this is that the Frenzied Beserker doesn't have enough Hit Points, so I'm tempted to say that he must take double his normal Hit Points to die (so a Beserker of 300 Hit Points must take 601 Hit Points before he dies).

That and I'm thinking that the minuses on the Power Attacks outweigh the bonuses, although I'm worried that doubling the Strength so that at the end its 1 Power Attack = +1 Power Attack, -1 AC, -d6 hit Points, might make it a bit too strong offensive-wise.

Oh well, I'll wait for the replies, and I'm sorry if I posted this in the wrong forum as I wasn't sure whether to put it here or in the Class-Based Accessories General forum.
Lady Ishtar
05-31-04, 02:12 PM i would say try out normal frenzied beserker before making any changes.

the only thing i might consider is using your version of Deathless Frenzy instead of the normal one
Dakota
05-31-04, 02:25 PM i know that that would seem the most sensible thing to do, but at the moment, we don't really want to as we are sure that the power attack and the deathless frenzy break it so myself and my mates were hoping that those who had run the normal Frenzied Beserker could give us some idea on whether or not this is a bit more balancing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dakota 05-31-04, 12:19 PM	Right, myself and the other guys that I roleplay with have hit a slight problem. We want to use the frenzied beserker PrC from the Complete Warrior, but we can't see it as a playable PC class, and we'd hate to see it in the hands of a DM (unless it was considered at least 10 CR higher than us - yay more experience:D) So myself and the other two guys who are running the next campaigns have come up with their ideas on the Frenzied Beserker. One of them has decided to drop the Power Attack and the annoying Will Saves to give it more damage reduction, while another one has decided to change the Power Attack for different abilities such as the Final Lesson Feat (if you missed with a Power Attack, but without the penalty you would have hit then you hit but don't gain the damage bonus - Lion Samurai Rokugan) and Combat Brute (If you charge and Power Attack on the next turn then you do x1.5 damage from Power Attack - x3 for a two-handed weapon) However, while I like the damage reduction idea I wanted to stick to the class a bit and I didn't want to follow in my mate's footsteps and give it things like that, especially when I will be having Samurai running around in my world. The main worry that we have seen is that deathless frenzy could be too powerful, it makes the character really unplayable and that the Improved and Supreme Power Attack are far too deadly (I mean x4 Power Attack does build up even if you only Power Attack 1) I'll show my variant on the Frenzied Beserker and any and every comment on what should be done will be appreciated. Although I will warn you that we haven't actually used any Frenzied Beserkers, although I think that that is mainly due to fear for our party's safety. Right so see the next post.
Dakota 05-31-04, 12:50 PM	FRENZIED BESERKER Hit Die: d12 Requirements Alignment: Any non-lawful Base Attack Bonus: +6 Skills: Intimidate - 8 ranks Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Intimidating Rage, Diehard. Class Skills The Frenzied Beserker treats the following skills as class skills:- Climb, Intimidate, Jump, Swim, Survival, Wilderness Lore CLASS PROGRESSION BAB Fort Ref Will Abilities 1. +1 +2 +0 +0 Frenzy 1/day, Diehardy 2. +2 +3 +0 +0 Supreme Cleave 3. +3 +3 +1 +1 Frenzy 2/day 4. +4 +4 +1 +1 Deathless Frenzy 5. +5 +4 +1 +1 Frenzy 3/day, Improved Power Attack 6. +6 +5 +2 +2 Inspire Frenzy 1/day 7. +7 +5 +2 +2 Frenzy 4/day 8. +8 +6 +2 +2 Greater Frenzy, Inspire Frenzy 2/day 9. +9 +6 +3 +3 Frenzy 5/day 10. +10 +7 +3 +3 Inspire Frenzy 3/day, Tireless Frenzy, Supreme Power Attack CLASS FEATURES Weapon and Armour Proficiency: The Frenzied Beserker gains no proficiency with any weapons or armour. Frenzy (Ex): A Frenzied Beserker can enter a frenzy during combat as a free action on his turn. While frenzied, he gains a +6 bonus to his Strength and when executing a full attack gains another attack at his highest bonus. (This ability does not stack with the haste spell or a speed weapon.) However, while frenzied, he takes a -4 penalty to Armour Class and takes 2 points of lethal damage every round. A frenzy lasts for a number of rounds equal to the character's Constitution Modifier + 3. If the Frenzeid Beserker wants to end his frenzy voluntarily then he may take a Will Save as a free action. The DC of the save is 10 + the number of rounds that he has been frenzied for. If this save succeeds then he leaves his frenzy. If it fails then he continues his frenzy. During a frenzy the Beserker may not activate any magic items, or drink any potions. Nor may he use any Charisma, Intelligence or Dexterity based skill (except for Intimidate) or the Concentration skill or any abilites that require concentration and patience. He may use any feat that he has barring the Combat Expertise feat and any item creation or metamagic feats. If the Frenzied Beserker is attacked and has not entered a frenzy already then he must make a DC 5 + (one tenth of the damage dealt since his last action, round up) Will Save to avoid entering a frenzy on his next turn. This save may obviously be failed voluntarily. In combat, if the Frenzied Beserker finds himself with no enemies in front of him then he must charge the nearest target, which may include his allies. However, if he has to charge an ally then the Frenzied Beserker may take a DC 15 Will Save reduced at the GM's discretion (according to how well the Beserker knows the character) to avoid charging him and pick the next closest target. If the Frenzied Beserker has run out of legal non-friendly targets to attack then he must either attack his nearest ally or attemp a save to come out of the Frenzy, but for this he gains a bonus equal to the number of allies he has with him. When the Frenzied Beserker's Frenzy ends, voluntarily or involuntarily he is fatigued for the duration of the encounter. However, if he is still under the effects of a rage ability then he ignores the fatigue until after the rage ends, when he will be exhausted. Diehardy (Ex): Okay I know the name is bad, but live with it. The Frenzied Beserker knows what it feels like to be on Death's door more than any other character and that is shown by the fact that he can still take normal actions from 0 to -20 hit points. Supreme Cleave (Ex): The Frenzied Beserker may take a 5-foot step between attacks when using the Cleave or Great Cleave feats. He is still limited to one 5-foot step a turn and may not use this ability if he has already taken a 5-foot step this turn. Deathless Frenzy (Ex): This ability may end having the Hit Points required for Death doubled later on, but I will have to see. When in a Deathless Frenzy the Frenzied Beserker scorns Death and will keep the Collector of Souls stuck on his horse Biggles watching as the egg-timer curves itself slightly to make those last few grains of sand last just a bit longer. (Okay, sorry about that, thin planet riding on elephants on a turtle reference over.) The Frenzied Beserker may continue to act normally once he has gone below -20 hit points. He may make full actions until he has taken his half of his hit Points again (eg- a Beserker with 300 Hit Points has to take 451 Hit Points before he will die [maybe 600 if I double it as I still am not too sure.]) However, if the Beserker's Frenzy ends and he is on lower than -20 then he dies as most other characters would have done quite a few rounds ago. This ability does not prevent death from massive damage (just for completeness as we took this out, as especially in epic, a 1 in 20 chance of your character dying is too much) or from spell effects such as Slay Living. Improved Power Attack (Ex): Beginning at 5th Level the Frenzied Beserker may become a more destructive force on the battlefield. For every 4 points of Power Attack the Frenzied Beserker gains an additional point of Strength in addition to the extra damage for the Power Attack. However, for every 2 points of Power Attack he loses a point of AC and d6 hit points, so for example a Power Attack of 12 would give +3 Strength (and as a result a +1/+2 to hit and extra damage dependant upon the weapon), -6 AC and -6d6 hit points. Inspire Frenzy (Su): Unfortunately being around such a lunatic can have a detrimental effect on even the most wisest and intelligent of people and they start to see the Destructive Force and see how they could utilize it. As a result from 6th Level the Frenzied Beserker may inspire Frenzy in his allies if he is frenzied himself. When he uses this ability all willing allies within 10 feet of him gain the advantages and disadvantages of frenzy. This frenzy lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the Frenzied Beserker's Constitution modifier, regardless of where they move afterwards. Greater Frenzy (Ex): Starting at 8th Level the Frenzied Beserker's Power increases and he now gains a +10 bonus to strength while Frenzied. Tireless Frenzy (Ex): At 10th Level the Frenzied Beserker no longer becomes fatigued at the end of his frenzy. Supreme Power Attack (Ex): The Frenzied Beserker has now obtained his greatest strength, however, it comes at a price. For every 2 Points that the Frenzed Beserker has Power Attacked he gains +1 Strength in addition to the extra damage for the Power Attack. However, for every point of Power Attack he loses a point of AC and d6 hit points. So keeping the old example, if he Power Attacks 12 he gains +6 Strength (+3/+4 to hit and extra damage), -12 AC, and -12d6 Hit Points.
Dakota 05-31-04, 01:48 PM	The main things that I'm worried about with this is that the Frenzied Beserker doesn't have enough Hit Points, so I'm tempted to say that he must take double his normal Hit Points to die (so a Beserker of 300 Hit Points must take 601 Hit Points before he dies). That and I'm thinking that the minuses on the Power Attacks outweigh the bonuses, although I'm worried that doubling the Strength so that at the end its 1 Power Attack = +1 Power Attack, -1 AC, -d6 hit Points, might make it a bit too strong offensive-wise. Oh well, I'll wait for the replies, and I'm sorry if I posted this in the wrong forum as I wasn't sure whether to put it here or in the Class-Based Accessories General forum.
Lady Ishtar 05-31-04, 02:12 PM	i would say try out normal frenzied beserker before making any changes. the only thing i might consider is using your version of Deathless Frenzy instead of the normal one
Dakota 05-31-04, 02:25 PM	i know that that would seem the most sensible thing to do, but at the moment, we don't really want to as we are sure that the power attack and the deathless frenzy break it so myself and my mates were hoping that those who had run the normal Frenzied Beserker could give us some idea on whether or not this is a bit more balancing.