Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darth Sephiroth 01-21-07, 04:21 PM	This is my preliminary ideas for a monk variant. It keeps things as a Monk except otherwise noted. Changes HD: Increase to d10 Skills: Becomes 2+Int/level. Lose Concentration, Hide, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Religion), Listen, Move Silently, and Perform as class skills while gaining Intimidate. BAB: Full BAB (As fighter) Saves: Poor Will save and either Poor Ref (Standard Rage) or Poor Fort (Whirling Frenzy) Proficient with all Monk weapons as well as Simple and Martial weapons. Use Charisma instead of Wisdom for class based AC Lose Flurry Gain Rage (As Barbarian, may select either standard Rage or Whirling Frenzy) (Gain greater Rage at level 11) Lose Quivering Palm, gain Tireless Rage Lose Empty Body for Mighty Rage Lose Ki Strike (Lawful) for Ki Strike (Chaotic) Lose Tongue of Sun and Moon and Timeless body for Indomitable Will Lose Abundant Step and Diamond Soul to gain Uncanny Dodge/Improved Uncanny Dodge I know its very rough at the moment, but I'm trying to work out more of a scrapper martial artist type than the enlightened martial artist.
The_Shaman 01-21-07, 04:24 PM	Have you seen the Dragon Class compendium? I think the chaos monk they have there is a good take-off point. It loses a few abilities, some get changed (ki:chaotic, as you did, different outsider, etc), but man, the flurry those guys get... pure dice-throwing mayhem.
Darth Sephiroth 01-21-07, 04:35 PM	I don't have the Dragon Compendium, but wanted to try making one since a player of mine is bugging me for a martial artist class than can match a monk with the unarmed focus. He prefers Monk characters, but the current game has gone to the point where the rest of the characters are chaotic and he wants to keep with the group without losing abilities.
The_Shaman 01-21-07, 04:36 PM	Hmm, there should be something that is stripped sufficiently well of any copyrighted material... Could you do a few google checks, or look around the compendia on this site?
Darth Sephiroth 01-21-07, 04:42 PM	Found it, but it doesn't seem right, plus I sort of like the idea of a raging monk better
The_Shaman 01-21-07, 04:48 PM	You know, I've always imagined the Drunken Master with something like that... and I've heard that it had something like drunken frenzy when it came out in 3.0 :P
Darth Sephiroth 01-21-07, 04:59 PM	It does, at least according to the Excerpt (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010105). It's not quite as good as the normal rage, and really doesn't fit a more serious combatant since you pretty much need to be drunk in it
The_Shaman 01-21-07, 05:03 PM	It doesn't fit the regular monk, sure enough, but rage isn't exactly something that I'd associate with a regular monk either. Perhaps a frenzy using the mechanic in the Wildrunner entry in Races of the Wild? Er, sans the bite, I think ;) .
Darth Sephiroth 01-21-07, 05:06 PM	Don't have Races of the Wild, so that doesn't help.
The_Shaman 01-21-07, 05:17 PM	Blast... Is it against the CoC to say that the bonuses are to strength and dexterity, with more towards the latter? It would fit a flailing, chaotic style a lot imo. In fact, when I did a DM remake I had drinks imbibed under the "Drinks like a Demon" category boost your dexterity as much as they sap your wisdom. My reason was that due to your slight numbing of the pain receptors, the chaos monks could perform maneuvers that their body would naturally inhibit before (I had a slight nonlethal damage per round of drunken frenzy though), and while it didn't make perfect sense it could work with enough artistic license - just like anything else in D&D.
periscope 01-21-07, 05:26 PM	Have you seen the Tome of Battle? We've made warblade and crusader variants that gained unarmed goodness. We stripped them of martial melee profs, shield and armor profs. In exchange we gave the crusader a sacred (or profane if evil, insight if lawful, luck if chaos) equal to their cha mod+1 per 4 levels, the IUS and SUS feats, and a few other goodies. The warblades was luck. Both ended up having the Unarmed Strikes count as their alignment later on, along with other benefits. If he wants to go chaotic from an existing monk look in complete divine. There is a prc in their that gives them access to a monk/cleric hybrid. You get to keep the benefits of being a monk, without having to remain lawful. I've also seen some substitution levels: Chaos Monk Special: These substitution levels have an additional requirement - the monk must be of chaotic alignment, whether from level one or not (in either case, he can advance in the monk class normally, despite the usual alignment restriction). 1st Level - Flailing Strike (Ex): Chaotic monks practice martial arts with a reckless abandon that shifts drastically from humorously ineffective to frighteningly deadly. At the expense of accuracy, the monk can make 1d4 additional attacks as part of a full attack action; all attacks take a -2 penalty to the attack roll. This ability can be used only when attacking unarmed or with special monk weapons. At 5th level, the attack roll penalty is reduced to -1, and at 9th level it disappears. At 11th level, the monk can make 1d6 extra attacks using this ability. This class feature is a modification of the standard flurry of blows ability. 5th Level - Erratic Advance (Ex): A chaotic monk can attempt to daze an opponent with a wild and erratic rush. As part of a charge, the monk can force the opponent to make a Will save (DC 10 + monk's class level) or become dazed for 1 round. The monk can use this ability a number of times per day equal to her Wisdom modifier (minimum once per day). This class feature replaces the standard purity of body ability. 7th Level - Displacing Stance (Su): A chaotic monk's movements become so wild and unpredictable that she can partially displace herself for a number of rounds per day equal to half her class level (these rounds need not be consecutive). This grants the monk a 20% chance that an attacker misses because of the displacing stance. The state requires a standard action to enter, and a free action to suspend. At 12th level the miss chance increases to 50%. This class feature replaces the standard wholeness of body and abundant step abilities. 10th Level - Ki Strike (chaotic): A chaotic monk's unarmed attacks are also treated as chaotic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. This class feature is a modification of the standard ki strike feature. It is automatically selected if the character is of chaotic alignment. 11th Level - Freedom of Thought (Su): A chaotic monk's thought process become so anarchic that once per day, should she fail a Will save against a mind-affecting effect, she may immediately reroll her save (with the same modifiers to the roll). She must take the result of the second roll, even if it is worse. This class feature replaces the standard diamond body ability. It is automatically selected if the character is of chaotic alignment. 20th Level - Anarchic Self (Su): Same as perfect self except the monk gains the chaotic subtype, and damage reduction 5/lawful. This class feature is a modification of the standard perfect self ability. It is automatically selected if the character is of chaotic alignment.
Darth Sephiroth 01-21-07, 05:33 PM	Anarchic Self doesn't really make sense since it's weaker than Perfect Self. Perfect Self doesn't list a subtype and has DR 10/magic
RappinRabbi 01-21-07, 06:35 PM	Looks balanced. I would think giving him Drink like a deamon from the Drunken Master Prc would be pretty cool too though.
Darth Sephiroth 01-21-07, 07:56 PM	Drink Like a Demon isn't something fitting a more generic chaotic class.
Darth Sephiroth 01-21-07, 10:20 PM	Would using Charisma instead of Wisdom for the AC bonus work better for this?
periscope 01-21-07, 10:56 PM	probably, look at the derro and the whole madness thing. Cha would probably be a luck bonus to ac (fate makes her choice!) or morale (Im that good).
Darth Sephiroth 01-21-07, 11:26 PM	I was thinking of simply changing the source of the AC boosting stat the monk uses rather than changing the type of bonus.
Hariman 01-22-07, 02:08 AM	Have you seen the Tome of Battle? We've made warblade and crusader variants that gained unarmed goodness. We stripped them of martial melee profs, shield and armor profs. In exchange we gave the crusader a sacred (or profane if evil, insight if lawful, luck if chaos) equal to their cha mod+1 per 4 levels, the IUS and SUS feats, and a few other goodies. The warblades was luck. Both ended up having the Unarmed Strikes count as their alignment later on, along with other benefits. If he wants to go chaotic from an existing monk look in complete divine. There is a prc in their that gives them access to a monk/cleric hybrid. You get to keep the benefits of being a monk, without having to remain lawful. I've also seen some substitution levels: Chaos Monk snip That is the Dragon 335 Chaos Monk. It might also be the Dragon Compendium Chaos Monk. It's pretty cool, if you want a chaotic monk.
Darth Sephiroth 01-22-07, 02:32 PM	It's already been mentioned, I have Tome of Battle, I don't have the Dragon Compendium. I'm trying to design a monk variant that works.
The_Shaman 01-22-07, 02:42 PM	@ Periscope: the variant I've seen had a slightly weaker Flailing Blows progression: it started as 1d4-1 extra attacks (yes, could be 0), then ar. lvl 6 improved to 1d4, around 11 was 1d6-1, and around 16 was 1d6. The sheer randomness brought a smile to my face, I can tell you :D I wish the class would simply be without alignment restrictions. Some are leaning towards lawful, some are not even there. Monks have to be lawful, because, well, they're very self-disciplined and chaotics can't be. Are psions or psi-warriors lawful only? What about fighters and the ToB classes? What about the bloody soulblades, that can make a weapon out of their mind and keep it in an anti-psionic zone?