Chaotic Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Chaotic Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Synopsis
12-14-07, 11:16 AM I remember seeing in the forum a chaotic Monk varient, does anybody know where is it taken from? one of the dragon magazines?:confused:
edventure
12-14-07, 11:46 AM It's in Dragon Magazine Issue 335 I believe.

You can find it in the base lists on crystalkeep.com.
risner
12-14-07, 11:50 AM Yes, it is in a dragon.
Check cystalkeep for the dragon issue number.
Read the mag, since crystal is lacking critical info to play one.
vorpo
12-14-07, 01:32 PM Just curious, is there a version (wotc or otherwise) for neutral (NE, N, NG) monks?
dman11235
12-14-07, 02:41 PM I know I haven't seen one. Besides, I just get rid of that alignment restriction.

Also, thee is (or so I've heard) the Chaos Monk which is a chaotic monk, and also the Battle Dancer, which is very monk-like (unarmed, unarmored, and I believe has flurry), and is C only. No idea where Chaos monk is, battle dancer is in the Dragon Compendium.
vorpo
12-14-07, 02:43 PM What would be a suitable alternative to ki strike (lawful) (or any other lawful aligned abilities of monk from whatever sources) for a NE, N or NG monk.
dman11235
12-14-07, 03:58 PM Ki Strike (alignment): choose one of your alignments. Or just get rid of it. I'd also change it so you gain your aoignment subtypes at level 20. But then, I either use a fix (the Martial Artist) or PrC out (with a spell caster) before level 5, so I'm not too sure. I never really thought about that when my DM got rid of the alignment restrictions (when I DM I just use the Martial asrtist instead of the monk)
edventure
12-14-07, 04:36 PM Just curious, is there a version (wotc or otherwise) for neutral (NE, N, NG) monks?

Check the aforementioned base list PDF on Crystalkeep. There's at least a dozen Monk variants in there. I'm fairly certain that at least one was neutral.
Orenmir
12-14-07, 04:50 PM Check the aforementioned base list PDF on Crystalkeep. There's at least a dozen Monk variants in there. I'm fairly certain that at least one was neutral.

Nope.

Monks are all Lawful -- it's a part of what makes them a Monk. Chaos Monk, on the other hand, is it's own animal. There's no in-between. May want to try another class with a style like Monk. Maybe Unarmed Swordsage?
The_Shaman
12-14-07, 05:01 PM Nah, I think most of the crystalkeep variants were lawful, with the chaos monk being the exception. Quite frankly, I think the alignment restrictions on monks were a bad idea that comes from the standard confusion of whether alignments represent internal mindset, pseudopolitical convictions, or God knows what else.
vorpo
12-14-07, 06:24 PM Check the aforementioned base list PDF on Crystalkeep. There's at least a dozen Monk variants in there. I'm fairly certain that at least one was neutral.

Been there, and iirc, there isn't one that's ethically neutral (NE, N, NG)
vorpo
12-14-07, 06:26 PM Nah, I think most of the crystalkeep variants were lawful, with the chaos monk being the exception. Quite frankly, I think the alignment restrictions on monks were a bad idea that comes from the standard confusion of whether alignments represent internal mindset, pseudopolitical convictions, or God knows what else.

I believe any class (base) that restricts more than half the alignments are bad. The more extreme the worse. That is why there are so many non-LG variant of paladin.
The_Shaman
12-14-07, 09:21 PM I believe any class (base) that restricts more than half the alignments are bad. The more extreme the worse. That is why there are so many non-LG variant of paladin.

Well, paladins and a few others (divine casters, generally) have a cop-out in that their alignment restriction is external.Yeah, if your powers depend on a conscious something, okay. OTOH, it brings the question why only some outsiders/dragons/whatever and not others can bestow such powers, which brings up the paladin and other variants.

Even bards can somehow get the pass on that one as whatever magic they tap into can be deemed essentially chaotic. Monk and barbarians, though... nah. Especially after they made lawful alignment dependent on following a moral code that may or may not coincide with the law, lawful barbs make a whole lot of sense.
Kattam
12-14-07, 09:34 PM On this note, would Githzerai have to be Chaos Monks, or are they an exception to the Lawful requirement?
dman11235
12-14-07, 11:07 PM Githzerai are generally lawful, so I fail to see the problem. They just live on limbo, in stabalized areas.
vorpo
12-14-07, 11:37 PM I am guessing you are thinking githyanki? (I didn't dig up the books to confirm this)
dman11235
12-14-07, 11:51 PM Who are usually evil, and I believe neutral, and generally fighters/sorcerers.
Tedronai
12-15-07, 12:03 AM On this note, would Githzerai have to be Chaos Monks, or are they an exception to the Lawful requirement?

Githzerai, or at the very least Githzerai Monks, are an exception to the prevailing alignment of Limbo.

They are Lawful individuals choosing to live on a Chaotic plane.
Aleolus
12-15-07, 12:59 AM I actually came up with a variant of the Monk which doesn't have an alignment requirement, because they are all about finding and being joyful and finding oneness with the joy of the universe. I called them the Joyful Warriors, and you can find them here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=903952).
The_Shaman
12-15-07, 07:59 AM Githzerai are generally lawful, so I fail to see the problem. They just live on limbo, in stabalized areas.

Sorry, but weren't githzerai generally neutral?
blade265
12-15-07, 10:55 AM Chaos Monk DR335 p88, Alignment CG, CN, CE
Aleolus
12-15-07, 11:26 AM Sorry, but weren't githzerai generally neutral?

According to the MM, Githerzai alignment is 'Any neutral', which includes Lawful Neutral, and their favored class for PCs is listed as Monk.
Aleolus
12-15-07, 11:32 AM Sorry, but weren't githzerai generally neutral?

According to the MM, Githerzai alignment is 'Any neutral', which includes Lawful Neutral, and their favored class for PCs is listed as Monk.
dman11235
12-16-07, 07:45 PM I could have sworn it was "usually lawful". Oh well, I've been known to be wrong occasionally. But that favored class monk and the monastaries sure do tilt it towards law.
vorpo
12-16-07, 08:30 PM MM 129 Githzerai alignment entry: Any Neutral.
XPH 11 Alignment entry:
Githzerai tend to be pragmatic and self-serving, but they are not malicious and do not look to get ahead at the expense of others. Most are neutral with respect to good or evil.
Phelix_the_Warrior
12-16-07, 09:02 PM I never understood monks being lawful only, it just doesn't make sense to me, I could see them having an alignment restriction like druids, where they need one alignment to be neutral.

Unless its something to do with law=balance, but honestly if your too lawful then your out of balance.....

I rarely keep lawful/chaotic alignment restrictions (except with the druid) I even let the paladin do his thing (as long as he stays good) because law and chaos always seemed way to loose to really restrict as alignment possibilities

A bureaucrat is obviously lawful and yet many twist the laws to suit their needs, misinterpreting things on purpose ect. which is an obviously chaotic act.

thats just my 2 sense
vorpo
12-16-07, 09:20 PM There are chaos within laws and laws within chaos. That's the basis of chaos theory. That aside, I agree with you that monks can only be lawful never made much sense to me either "other" than it's sorta a prereq for the ki strike (lawful) feature.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Synopsis 12-14-07, 11:16 AM	I remember seeing in the forum a chaotic Monk varient, does anybody know where is it taken from? one of the dragon magazines?:confused:
edventure 12-14-07, 11:46 AM	It's in Dragon Magazine Issue 335 I believe. You can find it in the base lists on crystalkeep.com.
risner 12-14-07, 11:50 AM	Yes, it is in a dragon. Check cystalkeep for the dragon issue number. Read the mag, since crystal is lacking critical info to play one.
vorpo 12-14-07, 01:32 PM	Just curious, is there a version (wotc or otherwise) for neutral (NE, N, NG) monks?
dman11235 12-14-07, 02:41 PM	I know I haven't seen one. Besides, I just get rid of that alignment restriction. Also, thee is (or so I've heard) the Chaos Monk which is a chaotic monk, and also the Battle Dancer, which is very monk-like (unarmed, unarmored, and I believe has flurry), and is C only. No idea where Chaos monk is, battle dancer is in the Dragon Compendium.
vorpo 12-14-07, 02:43 PM	What would be a suitable alternative to ki strike (lawful) (or any other lawful aligned abilities of monk from whatever sources) for a NE, N or NG monk.
dman11235 12-14-07, 03:58 PM	Ki Strike (alignment): choose one of your alignments. Or just get rid of it. I'd also change it so you gain your aoignment subtypes at level 20. But then, I either use a fix (the Martial Artist) or PrC out (with a spell caster) before level 5, so I'm not too sure. I never really thought about that when my DM got rid of the alignment restrictions (when I DM I just use the Martial asrtist instead of the monk)
edventure 12-14-07, 04:36 PM	Just curious, is there a version (wotc or otherwise) for neutral (NE, N, NG) monks? Check the aforementioned base list PDF on Crystalkeep. There's at least a dozen Monk variants in there. I'm fairly certain that at least one was neutral.
Orenmir 12-14-07, 04:50 PM	Check the aforementioned base list PDF on Crystalkeep. There's at least a dozen Monk variants in there. I'm fairly certain that at least one was neutral. Nope. Monks are all Lawful -- it's a part of what makes them a Monk. Chaos Monk, on the other hand, is it's own animal. There's no in-between. May want to try another class with a style like Monk. Maybe Unarmed Swordsage?
The_Shaman 12-14-07, 05:01 PM	Nah, I think most of the crystalkeep variants were lawful, with the chaos monk being the exception. Quite frankly, I think the alignment restrictions on monks were a bad idea that comes from the standard confusion of whether alignments represent internal mindset, pseudopolitical convictions, or God knows what else.
vorpo 12-14-07, 06:24 PM	Check the aforementioned base list PDF on Crystalkeep. There's at least a dozen Monk variants in there. I'm fairly certain that at least one was neutral. Been there, and iirc, there isn't one that's ethically neutral (NE, N, NG)
vorpo 12-14-07, 06:26 PM	Nah, I think most of the crystalkeep variants were lawful, with the chaos monk being the exception. Quite frankly, I think the alignment restrictions on monks were a bad idea that comes from the standard confusion of whether alignments represent internal mindset, pseudopolitical convictions, or God knows what else. I believe any class (base) that restricts more than half the alignments are bad. The more extreme the worse. That is why there are so many non-LG variant of paladin.
The_Shaman 12-14-07, 09:21 PM	I believe any class (base) that restricts more than half the alignments are bad. The more extreme the worse. That is why there are so many non-LG variant of paladin. Well, paladins and a few others (divine casters, generally) have a cop-out in that their alignment restriction is external.Yeah, if your powers depend on a conscious something, okay. OTOH, it brings the question why only some outsiders/dragons/whatever and not others can bestow such powers, which brings up the paladin and other variants. Even bards can somehow get the pass on that one as whatever magic they tap into can be deemed essentially chaotic. Monk and barbarians, though... nah. Especially after they made lawful alignment dependent on following a moral code that may or may not coincide with the law, lawful barbs make a whole lot of sense.
Kattam 12-14-07, 09:34 PM	On this note, would Githzerai have to be Chaos Monks, or are they an exception to the Lawful requirement?
dman11235 12-14-07, 11:07 PM	Githzerai are generally lawful, so I fail to see the problem. They just live on limbo, in stabalized areas.
vorpo 12-14-07, 11:37 PM	I am guessing you are thinking githyanki? (I didn't dig up the books to confirm this)
dman11235 12-14-07, 11:51 PM	Who are usually evil, and I believe neutral, and generally fighters/sorcerers.
Tedronai 12-15-07, 12:03 AM	On this note, would Githzerai have to be Chaos Monks, or are they an exception to the Lawful requirement? Githzerai, or at the very least Githzerai Monks, are an exception to the prevailing alignment of Limbo. They are Lawful individuals choosing to live on a Chaotic plane.
Aleolus 12-15-07, 12:59 AM	I actually came up with a variant of the Monk which doesn't have an alignment requirement, because they are all about finding and being joyful and finding oneness with the joy of the universe. I called them the Joyful Warriors, and you can find them here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=903952).
The_Shaman 12-15-07, 07:59 AM	Githzerai are generally lawful, so I fail to see the problem. They just live on limbo, in stabalized areas. Sorry, but weren't githzerai generally neutral?
blade265 12-15-07, 10:55 AM	Chaos Monk DR335 p88, Alignment CG, CN, CE
Aleolus 12-15-07, 11:26 AM	Sorry, but weren't githzerai generally neutral? According to the MM, Githerzai alignment is 'Any neutral', which includes Lawful Neutral, and their favored class for PCs is listed as Monk.
Aleolus 12-15-07, 11:32 AM	Sorry, but weren't githzerai generally neutral? According to the MM, Githerzai alignment is 'Any neutral', which includes Lawful Neutral, and their favored class for PCs is listed as Monk.
dman11235 12-16-07, 07:45 PM	I could have sworn it was "usually lawful". Oh well, I've been known to be wrong occasionally. But that favored class monk and the monastaries sure do tilt it towards law.
vorpo 12-16-07, 08:30 PM	MM 129 Githzerai alignment entry: Any Neutral. XPH 11 Alignment entry: Githzerai tend to be pragmatic and self-serving, but they are not malicious and do not look to get ahead at the expense of others. Most are neutral with respect to good or evil.
Phelix_the_Warrior 12-16-07, 09:02 PM	I never understood monks being lawful only, it just doesn't make sense to me, I could see them having an alignment restriction like druids, where they need one alignment to be neutral. Unless its something to do with law=balance, but honestly if your too lawful then your out of balance..... I rarely keep lawful/chaotic alignment restrictions (except with the druid) I even let the paladin do his thing (as long as he stays good) because law and chaos always seemed way to loose to really restrict as alignment possibilities A bureaucrat is obviously lawful and yet many twist the laws to suit their needs, misinterpreting things on purpose ect. which is an obviously chaotic act. thats just my 2 sense
vorpo 12-16-07, 09:20 PM	There are chaos within laws and laws within chaos. That's the basis of chaos theory. That aside, I agree with you that monks can only be lawful never made much sense to me either "other" than it's sorta a prereq for the ki strike (lawful) feature.