Chaotic Nuetral Paladin? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Chaotic Nuetral Paladin? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Me, Myself, & 101 others
07-08-05, 05:05 PM I heard about this, I think it's in an issue of Dragon magazine. Does anyone know which one, or if it's printed elsewhere? Other than an obviously different moral code, how does it differ from the standard paladin?
Edymnion
07-08-05, 05:08 PM Its in Unearthed Arcana, the Paladin of Freedom variant.
Me, Myself, & 101 others
07-08-05, 05:11 PM Its in Unearthed Arcana, the Paladin of Freedom variant.

Thanks, but that's a chaotic good paladin. I'm looking for nuetral based paladins, like CN, N, and maybe LN.
Wookie1120
07-08-05, 07:46 PM I haven't seen any neutral based paladins anywhere. IMO part of the concept of the paladin is strong alignment obligations, so Neutral in there is just too wishy washy for such a character.
Me, Myself, & 101 others
07-08-05, 08:06 PM I haven't seen any neutral based paladins anywhere. IMO part of the concept of the paladin is strong alignment obligations, so Neutral in there is just too wishy washy for such a character.

If that's what you think, you're looking at them wrong. You can make a CN paladin that is about anarchy at any cost, fighting against any form of government or imposed order. Or a LN paladin that upholds the Law above any other considerations, ignoring issues of good or evil as long as the principals play by the rules. A N paladin would be about balance, striking out at any extremist. Any faction, law, chaos, good, evil, that became too powerful would become an enemy of a N paladin, as would anyone who disturbed the natural harmony. A N paladin that upholds a true, ideal balance would actually be one of the harder characters too play.
Maryk_Keiros
07-08-05, 08:40 PM I think the biggest part of a paladin is that it is supposed to be good! It fights for the forces of good, not awesome, and defends those who are being chased or stolen from or uhmmm...being talked to by Senior Cardgage...Paladin Roxxorz just because they work out of their righteousness!
Norhg
07-08-05, 08:53 PM I think the biggest part of a paladin is that it is supposed to be good! It fights for the forces of good, not awesome, and defends those who are being chased or stolen from or uhmmm...being talked to by Senior Cardgage...Paladin Roxxorz just because they work out of their righteousness!
pal·a·din Pronunciation Key (pl-dn)
n.

1. A paragon of chivalry; a heroic champion.
2. A strong supporter or defender of a cause: “the paladin of plain speaking” (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.).
3. Any of the 12 peers of Charlemagne's court.

By definition two a paladin can be the exemplar of anything. What is the problem with having ones that do not fall under definition one as well?
Wrathamon
07-08-05, 09:18 PM CN doesnt seem very Paladin to me... but

there was a dragon magazine that had a paladin for every alignment.
Taluron
07-12-05, 09:28 AM Dragon mag issue #310 had the
LN -Enforcer,
CN - Anarch,
N - Incarnate,
NG - Sentinel,
CG - Avenger
variants.

Dragon mag issue #312 had the
CE - Anti-paladin,
LE - Despot,
NE - Corrupter
variants.
AramilWindwalker
07-12-05, 09:31 AM they cn all be found here-->http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.html under the classes section
RedWizard
07-12-05, 10:28 AM I see no issue with a LN paladin as they would still be seeking a zealous approach to maintaining absolute law without bias to conceptions of good and evil. Any Lawful alingment would work with a Paladin as by their nature a paladin is given his power by his single minded dedication to something he believes in. Thus in my campaigns, Anti-paladins or "blackguards" are LE, not CE. The chaotic element would not allow them to have the discipline to adhere to the code they seek to exemplify and through which they gain ther powers. This would be especially true for CN.
Callista
07-12-05, 10:36 AM I heard about this, I think it's in an issue of Dragon magazine. Does anyone know which one, or if it's printed elsewhere? Other than an obviously different moral code, how does it differ from the standard paladin?0

Why, oh, why do they persist in calling these "paragon of alignment x" classes "paladins"?!! Honestly... if it's not LG, then call it something else. (Note: When I use the word "paragon", I mean "the perfect example of that alignment"; it has nothing to do with the "paragon levels" available for races. Just to avoid confusion.)

I also agree that Blackguards ought to be LE. In fact, if I ever play one, I'll ask my DM to make that a rule... so far, we've had no blackguards at all, either as enemies or allies; but still... LE makes more sense.

As for the "paragon of the CN alignment"... it would have to be someone who believes in the importance of the individual person over everything else. The problem is that if you attempt to make a CN "paladin", you've just constrained him to one particular way of life... and that is just not "C" enough. The CN alignment has many "paragons", from the Barbarian to the Bard to the Rogue... and everything in between. (Yes, I'm aware that none of these classes have to be Chaotic.)

I suppose you could make a class that focuses on one aspect of individuality, though--maybe someone who's good at overthrowing oppressive governments, or someone who's an anarchist (not the CE kind, though)...

If you wanted a CN "paragon" class, then you would have to make it an extremely, extremely flexible class... something you could do anything with. Something that allows the character to be self-sufficient, to allow him to take over just about any other role in a party, to spread freedom wherever he goes. Though it isn't restricted to CN, we already have such a class: The Bard.

Having a prestige class for CN fighters is fine... just don't call it a "Paladin". That carries too much baggage.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Me, Myself, & 101 others 07-08-05, 05:05 PM	I heard about this, I think it's in an issue of Dragon magazine. Does anyone know which one, or if it's printed elsewhere? Other than an obviously different moral code, how does it differ from the standard paladin?
Edymnion 07-08-05, 05:08 PM	Its in Unearthed Arcana, the Paladin of Freedom variant.
Me, Myself, & 101 others 07-08-05, 05:11 PM	Its in Unearthed Arcana, the Paladin of Freedom variant. Thanks, but that's a chaotic good paladin. I'm looking for nuetral based paladins, like CN, N, and maybe LN.
Wookie1120 07-08-05, 07:46 PM	I haven't seen any neutral based paladins anywhere. IMO part of the concept of the paladin is strong alignment obligations, so Neutral in there is just too wishy washy for such a character.
Me, Myself, & 101 others 07-08-05, 08:06 PM	I haven't seen any neutral based paladins anywhere. IMO part of the concept of the paladin is strong alignment obligations, so Neutral in there is just too wishy washy for such a character. If that's what you think, you're looking at them wrong. You can make a CN paladin that is about anarchy at any cost, fighting against any form of government or imposed order. Or a LN paladin that upholds the Law above any other considerations, ignoring issues of good or evil as long as the principals play by the rules. A N paladin would be about balance, striking out at any extremist. Any faction, law, chaos, good, evil, that became too powerful would become an enemy of a N paladin, as would anyone who disturbed the natural harmony. A N paladin that upholds a true, ideal balance would actually be one of the harder characters too play.
Maryk_Keiros 07-08-05, 08:40 PM	I think the biggest part of a paladin is that it is supposed to be good! It fights for the forces of good, not awesome, and defends those who are being chased or stolen from or uhmmm...being talked to by Senior Cardgage...Paladin Roxxorz just because they work out of their righteousness!
Norhg 07-08-05, 08:53 PM	I think the biggest part of a paladin is that it is supposed to be good! It fights for the forces of good, not awesome, and defends those who are being chased or stolen from or uhmmm...being talked to by Senior Cardgage...Paladin Roxxorz just because they work out of their righteousness! pal·a·din Pronunciation Key (pl-dn) n. 1. A paragon of chivalry; a heroic champion. 2. A strong supporter or defender of a cause: “the paladin of plain speaking” (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.). 3. Any of the 12 peers of Charlemagne's court. By definition two a paladin can be the exemplar of anything. What is the problem with having ones that do not fall under definition one as well?
Wrathamon 07-08-05, 09:18 PM	CN doesnt seem very Paladin to me... but there was a dragon magazine that had a paladin for every alignment.
Taluron 07-12-05, 09:28 AM	Dragon mag issue #310 had the LN -Enforcer, CN - Anarch, N - Incarnate, NG - Sentinel, CG - Avenger variants. Dragon mag issue #312 had the CE - Anti-paladin, LE - Despot, NE - Corrupter variants.
AramilWindwalker 07-12-05, 09:31 AM	they cn all be found here-->http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.html under the classes section
RedWizard 07-12-05, 10:28 AM	I see no issue with a LN paladin as they would still be seeking a zealous approach to maintaining absolute law without bias to conceptions of good and evil. Any Lawful alingment would work with a Paladin as by their nature a paladin is given his power by his single minded dedication to something he believes in. Thus in my campaigns, Anti-paladins or "blackguards" are LE, not CE. The chaotic element would not allow them to have the discipline to adhere to the code they seek to exemplify and through which they gain ther powers. This would be especially true for CN.
Callista 07-12-05, 10:36 AM	I heard about this, I think it's in an issue of Dragon magazine. Does anyone know which one, or if it's printed elsewhere? Other than an obviously different moral code, how does it differ from the standard paladin?0 Why, oh, why do they persist in calling these "paragon of alignment x" classes "paladins"?!! Honestly... if it's not LG, then call it something else. (Note: When I use the word "paragon", I mean "the perfect example of that alignment"; it has nothing to do with the "paragon levels" available for races. Just to avoid confusion.) I also agree that Blackguards ought to be LE. In fact, if I ever play one, I'll ask my DM to make that a rule... so far, we've had no blackguards at all, either as enemies or allies; but still... LE makes more sense. As for the "paragon of the CN alignment"... it would have to be someone who believes in the importance of the individual person over everything else. The problem is that if you attempt to make a CN "paladin", you've just constrained him to one particular way of life... and that is just not "C" enough. The CN alignment has many "paragons", from the Barbarian to the Bard to the Rogue... and everything in between. (Yes, I'm aware that none of these classes have to be Chaotic.) I suppose you could make a class that focuses on one aspect of individuality, though--maybe someone who's good at overthrowing oppressive governments, or someone who's an anarchist (not the CE kind, though)... If you wanted a CN "paragon" class, then you would have to make it an extremely, extremely flexible class... something you could do anything with. Something that allows the character to be self-sufficient, to allow him to take over just about any other role in a party, to spread freedom wherever he goes. Though it isn't restricted to CN, we already have such a class: The Bard. Having a prestige class for CN fighters is fine... just don't call it a "Paladin". That carries too much baggage.