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| Ismaul12-11-04, 02:49 PM | Hi and thanks for looking. This is a core class concept for an upcoming campaign, which I'll have to finish up soon. I don't have a name chosen yet, as the concept is a bit complex. I have already thought about trickster, secretive, lurker, but none seem quite right yet, and I would prefer not to use trickster as it's already used. ---------------------------- Thinkel couldn't stand in place. He was too excited. He had used all his mischievousness to arrive to this point. He had lied, manipulated, listened at doors and sneaked in places he shouldn't have been. But today was the day. He was going to know. The previous secret he had uncovered hadn't lived up to his expectations. But this one promised to satisfy his curiosity, at least for today. This secret was not going to be another episode about a noble and his maid: the chamberlain was involved, as were important nobles and the lord's personal wizard. When he first saw the nobles acting secretive, he knew they were up to something. He loved the sound of whispering people, it meant there was something he shouldn't be knowing, something much more interesting than what everyone said openly. He overheard them talking about experiments. He had to know more about it. He wouldn't be sleeping if he didn't know more. He set himself to gather more information. He knew how to get the words out of others' mouths before they even realised what they had said. He learned that those so-called experiments implicated magic in a way. This was getting more and more intriguing, and explained the involvement of the wizard. Slowly, Thinkel retreived the pieces of the puzzle. He was small, being a gnome, and others payed much less attention to him. He used that as an advantage to slip in the maze of passageways of the castle, hiding in the dark corners, listening to nobles' conversation that might have hinted at the closely guarded secret. He found out that an apprentice had uncovered an ancient arcane tome, and that the wizard and his assistants were decrypting the writings to understand and rediscover the lost magic. The wizard's research was going at a fast pace. At the time he knew what this was all about, the experiments were coming to an end. Thinkel chose a propitious moment, while the wizard and his assistants were away, and transported himself inside the laboratory. He quickly scanned the place, and promptly found what he was looking for: a mundane statuette on the wizard's worktable that, if it had eyes, could see almost all the area around. He took some time to study it, and proceeded to hide it afterwards. Then, he deftly climbed on the worktable, and slowly took the form of the figurine, mimicking its every features. He loved that feeling of clandestinity, being in the middle of the sought place, laid bare to anyone who would enter the room, yet invisible. Really, was there a better disguise than mundane objects used, seen everyday by sentient creatures until they were so much acustomed to them they don't even pay attention anymore? Thinkel remembered that time he transformed into a fine ring and made himself offed to a lady from which he needed information. That was a nice trick. His thoughts were interrupted when he heard the familiar footsteps of the wizard. Everything was set in place, and he was getting that tickly feeling again. He was going to know. ------------------------------- Basically, this character is a lighthearted hunter of knowledge. He is always curious, on the lookout for knowledge, but not banal. He thirsts for mysterious, hidden knowledge and secrets, be it people's secrets, conspiracies, ancient lore, arcana or religious. He loves the thrill of clandestinity, of hearing things he souldn't hear, knowing things unknown by most. But, an uncovered secret is no longer one, and becomes no more fun. That's the reason why he goes on adventures: he wants more secrets. Why does he wants this hidden knowledge? There is no particular reason in general, and it all boils down to his chaotic nature. Sometimes he might side with a certain group, religous, political, or whatever, but the cause is never what is the most important, it's the secrets. He might work their way in the intrigue of the courts, lying, manipulating, spying for the information, and then using it he might blackmail, create confusion, scandals, or deepening secrets for his personal amusement. Different characters from this class might research for old or forgotten magic or alchemy. Others might work in conjunction with thieves' groups or as spies. You might think that I am describing a rogue with certain characteristics. This is partially true, as this concept and the rogue have a lot in commun, just like cleric have with druids. But, this character has innate magic, coming partially from his chaotic nature. His chaotic magic wards him, making him an elusive target for opponents, magic and divination. He loves playing tricks and is good at illusions, so he's got a certain performer, show off aspect of the bard. And even micheviously evil characters from this concept have a sense of humor, albeit a bit twisted. He also isn't good at all at fighting, but is good at escaping difficult situations. I hope I managed to convey a but of the spirit of this concept. He might be difficult to balance, as my idea is to make him pretty bad at combat, physically and magically, unlike sorcerers or wizards who end up being great damage dealers when they're protected. This is what I have for this class at this moment: Game Rule Information The class has the following game statistics. Abilities: Charisma determines how powerful a spell he can cast, how many spells he can cast per day, and how hard those spells are to resist (see Spells, below). Charisma, Dexterity, and Intelligence are important for many of his class skills. He does not wear armor, so a high Dexterity score greatly improves his defensive ability. Base Attack Bonus: Low (as wizard). Hit Die: d4 (or d6). Saves: Good Reflex and Will / Poor Fortitude. Class Skills: His class skills are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (any) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha) and Use Rope (Dex). Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int (might be 8). Alignment: Any Chaotic. Starting Age: As a rogue. Starting Gold: 4d4 x 10gp. Favored Class: He is a favored class for gnomes. Class Features All of the following are his class features. Weapons and Armor Proficiency: They are proficient with the club, dagger, dart, hand crossbow, light crossbow, quarterstaff, sap and sling, but not with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with his arcane gestures, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail. From there, I have a couple of class features that are well defined and here to stay (possibly with modifications). As I have not yet chosen a name, I have replaced it with "he" or "they" in he text, so the text might seem a bit wierd. Level Abilities 1 Chaotic Ward (Elusive), Gossip & Secrets 2 Chaotic Ward (Evasion) 3 4 5 6 7 Chaotic Ward (Mock Danger) 8 9 10 Chaotic Ward (Nondetection) 11 12 13 A Thousand Faces 14 15 Chaotic Ward (Negate Magic) 16 Deceptives Shapes 17 18 19 20 Chaotic Ward (Ex and Su): They have a light approach to life, and their seemingly indifference to risk makes it as if the less they cared about danger, the less it affected them. Elusive: He may not bet that great at hurting anybody, but others have a hard time hurting them, as their unusual luck fuels their trickery, and makes enemies fail their attempts to attack them. When unarmored and unencombered, he adds his Charisma bonus (if any) to his AC. These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when he is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a srield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load. Evasion (Ex): As the Rogue. Mock Danger (Ex): The ward develops. He adds his Charisma bonus to saving throws. This ability can be used only if he is wearing light armor or no armor. Nondetection (Su): His chaotic attitude, makes him hard to find by magical means. He becomes shielded by a continuous nondetection effect (as the spell), of a caster level equal to his _s level. Negate Magic (Ex): His playful, chaotic way of approaching life and his carelessness of danger makes spells to have no effect on him. At 15th level, he gains spell resistance equal to his current lurker level + 10. I was also thinking of something like a permanent sanctuary spell, which would fit well with a non-combative class. I'm not sure a which level I should put that, and having this ability would make Negate Magic a bit redundant. Thoughts about this? Gossip & Secrets: He picks up a lot of stray knowledge while wandering the land and peeking around in places hes not allowed. The same as Bardic Knowledge. A Thousand Faces: As the Druid. Deceptive Shapes (Su): The A Thousand Faces ability improves. He can now also take the form of an object, mundane or precious looking. He is effectively disguised as an average object of the selected type. If he wishes, he may try to imitate the look of an existing object or pretend having magical proprieties (just like a disguise) and gets a +10 bonus on his Disguise check. He cant assume an object form smaller than Fine or larger than his normal size category. If someone uses true seeing or a similar spell to reveal his true identity while he is using this ability, they make an opposed caster check to see if the true form is revealed. He gains the hardness of the object, keeps his hit points and saving throws, and is affected by attacks the way an object is. When someone tries to break him with sudden force rather than by dealing damage and succeeds with the Strenght DC, he is allowed a Will save. If he succeeds, he takes damage equivalent to the break DC of the object, if he fails, he takes twice the damage. If the damage dealt exceeds 50 or half his base hit points, or if he is reduced to negative hit points, he automatically reverts back to his original form. He retains his normal senses (including any racial ones, such as darkvision or scent) and can perceive his surroundings, meaning he can see, hear, smell and feel even if the new form does not have the required physical attribute. He can talk in this new form, even if this form is not capable of speech. In this case, he counts as being under a continuous ventriloquism effect. He has no means of locomotion. The rest is not set in stone. I thought about adding some other features in the progression and giving the choice about a couple of special abilities. I have some for an arcane secrets researcher, some for a manipulator type, some for a voyeur type and some general ones. Arcane Researcher Scroll Familiarity: You gain the scribe scroll feat. Nothing special. Arcane Knowledge: You learn one additionnal spell at any level up to one lower than the highest level of spell you can currently cast. You may take this ability multiple times. It's essentially the Extra Spell feat from Complete Arcane. Decieve Item (Ex): As the warlock ability. You may take 10 when using Use Magic Device, even if distracted or threatened. Manipulator Type Poison Familiarity: You gain Poison Use, as the assassin ability, and detect poison as an extra cantrip, not counting against your spells known limit. You also gain access to delay poison as a 2nd-level spell, neutralize poison and poison as 4th level spells ; you still have to learn the spells, this only permits you to do so. Forked Tongue(Su): You gain spell resistance 10 + your level against spells that reveal falsehood, such as zone of truth and discern lies, even when spell resistance is not allowed (such as with discern lies). Obscure Motives (Su): He is acustomed to hear and say lies and develops the capacity to hide is intentions to others. He becomes shielded by a continuous undetectable alignement effect (as the spell), of a caster level equal to his _s level, and gains a +4 bonus on his saving throw against spells that penetrate the mind to discover information, such as detect thoughts. Snatch the Secrets (Su): Others knowledge is what most _ are after. He develops the ability to read others minds, using guile to make them think about the information he wants. He can use detect thoughts a number of times per day equal to his Charisma bonus. Voyeur Type Sense Hidden Passages (Ex): They pass their time searching for hidden places and knowledge, and are also on the lookout about any possible exit if they happen to be discovered. His senses develop. If he merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door, he is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if he were actively looking for it. If he already possess a similar ability, the range increases to 10 feet. Through the Doorslit (Ex): They have the habit of spying in lightly lit areas. With time, their magic comes to complement their sight. He develops low-light vision. If he already has low-light vision, he gains darkvision to 60 feet. If he already has darkvision, the range increases by 30 feet. Unseen Voyeur (Ex): Hiding is a second nature for him. While using Hide or Move Silently to move faster than half his speed, he reduces the penality by 5. Hide in Plain Sight (Su): As the assassin ability. General Trap Familiarity: You gain trapfinding, as the rogue ability. Ranged Legerdemain: As the arcane trickster ability. One more time per day, you can perform one of the following class skills at 30 feet: Disable Device, Open Lock or Sleight of Hand. Perceive Falsehood (Ex): Your experience in deceit, lies and illusions helps you recognize situations where they could be used against you. You gain a +2 bonus to Sense Motive and to saving throws to disbelieve illusions. I have thought about replacing the Chaotic Ward (negate magic) spell resistance ability with something more colourful like Disrupt Magic(below), but I'm not quite sure yet. He would be having it 1 more time per day at levels 11, 15 and 19. Disrupt Magic (Su): His inner magic, chaos and luck mysteriously help him distract a caster and makes spells go awry. A number of times per day, he can try to counterspell another spellcaster without having to ready the action. It acts like an immediate action, him reacting while the spell is cast. He counterspells as he had greater dispel magic. Alternatively, he can chose to use the correct spell to create the counterspelling effect, if he knows the spell. Doing so expends a spell slot, but has the advantage of automatically negating the spell. For spellcasting, he is not a primary spellcaster, so I don't want him to have a wizard-like spell per day list, with spell levels up to 9. He also has a restriced spell list with not damage inflicting spells. As he has no melee combat ability and no damaging spellcasting, his spellcating has to be a bit better than the bard (but not in terms of available spells), because he's going to rely on it to survive. I made the spell progression you can see below, and gave him access to movement, manipulation, illusions, tricks, curses and knowledge finding spells. I tried to make the spell list like the bard's, meaning that he gets higher wizard spell levels at lower spell levels for him. Spells per Day Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 1st 3 1 2nd 4 2 3rd 4 3 4th 5 3 1 5th 5 4 2 6th 5 4 3 7th 6 4 3 1 8th 6 5 4 2 9th 6 5 4 3 10th 6 5 4 3 1 11th 6 5 5 4 2 12th 6 5 5 4 3 13th 6 5 5 4 3 1 14th 6 5 5 5 4 2 15th 6 5 5 5 4 3 16th 6 5 5 5 4 3 1 17th 6 5 5 5 5 4 2 18th 6 5 5 5 5 4 3 19th 6 5 5 5 5 4 3 20th 6 5 5 5 5 5 4 Spells Known: Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 1st 3* 3 2nd 4 3 3rd 4 4 4th 5 4 3 5th 5 4 3 6th 6 5 4 7th 6 5 4 3 8th 6 5 4 3 9th 6 5 5 4 10th 6 5 5 4 3 11th 6 5 5 4 3 12th 6 5 5 5 4 13th 6 5 5 5 4 3 14th 6 5 5 5 4 3 15th 6 5 5 5 5 4 16th 6 5 5 5 5 4 3 17th 6 5 5 5 5 4 3 18th 6 5 5 5 5 5 4 19th 6 5 5 5 5 5 4 20th 6 5 5 5 5 5 4 *A _ of first level also knows mage hand and prestidigitation in addition to his chosen 0-level spells. 0 Level: dancing lights, daze, detect magic, distract [new], flare, ghost sound, know direction, light, mage hand, mending, message, no light [BoVD], open/close, prestidigitation, read magic, slash tongue [BoVD], touch of fatigue 1st Level: alarm, angry ache [BoVD], animate rope, chameleon [CA], charm person, cheat [BoVD], comprehend languages, detect secret doors, disguise self, entropic shield, erase, expeditious retreat, feather fall, grease, hypnotism, identify, lesser confusion, low-light vision [CA], magic mouth, nystuls magic aura, obscuring mist, obscure object, pass without trace, phantom threat [CW], ray of enfeeblement, reduce person, sanctuary, silent image, sleep, stupor [BoVD], suspend disease [BoVD], tashas hideous laughter, tongue of baalzebul [BoVD], undetectable alignment, ventriloquism 2nd Level: alter self, arcane lock, augury, blindness/deafness, blur, cats grace, curse of ill fortune [CD], darkness, darkvision, daze monster, detect thoughts, eagles splendor, enthrall, fly, fog cloud, foxs cunning, ghoul touch, glitterdust, hypnotic pattern, invisibility, knock, leomunds trap, locate object, minor image, mirror image, misdirection, nondetection, owls wisdom, phantasmal assaliant [CA], pyrotechnics, see invisibility, silence, spider climb, summon swarm, tongues, touch of idiocy, touch of madness [CD], wall of gloom [CA], web, wither limb [BoVD], whispering wind 3rd Level: animal from [new], arcane sight, bestow curse, blink, charm monster, clairaudience/clairvoyance, confusion, contagion, cruel disappointement [BoVD], curse of the putrid husk [BoVD], daylight, deep slumber, dimension door, dispel magic, displacement, evil eye [BoVD], gaseous form, glibness, hold person, illusory script, invisibility sphere, major image, protection from energy, ray of exhaustion, reality blind [BoVD], remove curse, sculpt sound, secret page, sepia snake sigil, shadow binding [CA], shrink item, slow, stinking cloud, suggestion 4th Level: arcane eye, break enchantment, detect scrying, discern lies, divination, false vision, fire trap, freedom of movement, lesser geas, lesser globe of invulnerability, hallucinatory terrain, illusory wall, greater invisibility, locate creature, modify memory, passwall, persistent image, rainbow pattern, rusting grasp, scrying, shadow conjuration, solid fog, teleport, unluck [CA], wrack [CD], zone of silence 5th Level: baleful polymorph, greater blink [CA], greater dispel magic, dominate person, dream, false sending [BoVD], feeblemind, find the path, hold monster, legend lore, mind fog, mirage arcana, mislead, nightmare, programmed image, seeming, shadow evocation, shadow walk, telekinesis, true seeing 6th Level: analyze dweomer, animate objects, greater bestow curse [CD], mass charm monster, discern location, eyebite, geas/quest, globe of invulnerability, illusory pit [CA], insanity, ottos irresistible dance, permanent image, phantasmal disorientation [CD], phase door, polymorph any object, probe thoughts [CD], project image, reverse gravity, screen, greater scrying, spell turning, mass suggestion, greater teleport, veil The spell list is not final, there's a couple of spells that might go up or down a level. I was thinking of making detect secret doors and/or ventriloquism cantrips for this class, but I'm not sure for balance reasons. Thoughts? The other way to give him spellcasting would be to give him invocations like the warlock. The more I think of it, the more it sounds like it could work. Even the abilities I have listed, like chaotic ward, deceptive shapes and others already work similarly to invocations, as they are spells transformed into abilities. Giving him something like mandatory invocations as calss features, and a bunch of others to the player's choice might work well. I would really appreciate to know if you guys think it might be more interesting with invocations or spells, and if you have any ideas for a name. Anyways, if you have any commentaries or ideas please share them ;) |
| Ismaul12-12-04, 10:06 AM | New Spells Distract Illusion (Figment or Glamer) [Mind-Affecting] Level: 0 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Area: One creature Duration: Concentration + 1 round/level (D) Saving Throw: Will negates Spell Resistance: Yes You cause the subject to release his attention from his primary occupation, by making him hallucinate a moving dot or color, or by making his body or part of it feel weird. Subjects under the effet of distract take a 4 penalty on Listen, Spot, Search and Sense Motive checks while the distraction is in effect. This spell is based on Lullaby, and a bit on the Distract power from the Expanded Psionic Handbook. Animal Form Transmutation Level: 3 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Area: You Duration: 10 min./level (D) This spell functions like alter self, except that you can change yourself into an animal of 5HD or less. The new form must be no larger than your normal size, and up to two size categories smaller. Comments? |
| Ismaul12-13-04, 08:46 PM | bump for the new flavor :D |
| evangelion101012-13-04, 09:03 PM | Seems somewhat weak... He basically a bard, but with poor BAB, same saves, lower hit die (deffinatly go with d6), and in place songs he gets evasion, minor SR, Cha to AC and saves... In short, i don't see him exceling in any area of combat. He has alright spells, but nothing fantastic at level 20, He can't support the party that much, and he certainly can't enter in combat. For D&D being such a combat oriented game, this class shys away entirely from combat it seems. Also, you mention intelligence being important, but i can't see any abilities based off it. If this was a core class, if i was a bard or sorcerer i'd take a 1 level dip to get Cha to AC, and that'd be it. As it stands, i'd much rather be a bard than this... besides bards are between rogues and sorcerers as it is, all you'd need is some flavor, and perhaps swapping out songs for a few abilities you've listed, or just adding feats. |
| oddman12-13-04, 09:09 PM | This class is pretty cool, I like the concept. One question, do you intend to play in a predominantly urban setting? If so then the lack of offensive power might not be too big of a problem. But, if you are going to be part of a typical adventuring party you should give him some kind of combat ability. Perhaps something like an improved ability to cast damage dealing phantasms from the illusion school. For example, you might say that his Gossip and Secrects ability grants his phantasms a bonus to hit based on INT and a bonus to damage and disbelieve checks based on CHA. cool though |
| Ismaul12-13-04, 09:54 PM | Seems somewhat weak... For D&D being such a combat oriented game, this class shys away entirely from combat it seems. I was afraid it was going to be weak because of the lack of combat ability, but I thought it would be interesting to play a character which I would have to rely more on imagination and thinking to get past some problems. Also, you mention intelligence being important, but i can't see any abilities based off it. Well, it said it's important for class skills, and as he has all Knowledge skills plus a couple of others, I thought it was enough to talk about intelligence. If this was a core class, if i was a bard or sorcerer i'd take a 1 level dip to get Cha to AC, and that'd be it. As I have written it, it would be pretty much useless for a bard to take 1 level for the Cha to AC, as he loses the bonus if he wears an armor. It would be pretty much useless to any class that might have a high Cha because they already get light armor proficiency. The only problem I see is with the Sorcerer: he has high Cha and no armor, so will greatly benefit from this ability. Combined with Magic Armor and/or Shield, he's gonna be very hard to hit. Making it not stack with any armor bonus (such as granted by Mage Armor) might balance that out. Thoughts? As for overall balance issues, the table with abilities isn't the final one, and I was thinking about something like that: Level Abilities 1 Chaotic Ward (Elusive), Gossip & Secrets, special ability 2 Chaotic Ward (Evasion) 3 Special ability 4 - 5 Special ability 6 Ranged Legerdemain 1/day 7 Chaotic Ward (Mock Danger) 8 Special ability 9 - 10 Chaotic Ward (Nondetection) 11 Special ability 12 Ranged Legerdemain 2/day 13 A Thousand Faces 14 Special ability 15 Chaotic Ward (Negate Magic) 16 Deceptive Shapes 17 Special ability 18 Ranged Legerdemain 3/day 19 - 20 Special ability I think there is too much Special abilities, and I should put fixed abilities instead. I'll have to work that out. Special abilities on the above table would be those I posted in the original post, plus any Skill-based Feat. I have some prerequisites worked out for those abilities so you can't have high powered abilities a low levels. I still have to find some things to fill in the blanks. Even with all that, I fear they are heavily underpowered at first level. Maybe one more spell per day or ability would do the trick. And what do you guys think about a permanent Sanctuary effet at say, level 4? It's good, I know, but for a non-combative class, I feel it is justified. I'm also afraid of giving spells at lower spell levels in some cases. Invisibility is great for avoiding combat, but giving it as a first level spell is too much (I could see lots of classes taking a 1 level dip if that was the case). I have Chameleon at level 1 instead, what do you guys think? Oh, and what about Warlock-like Invocations instead of spells? |
| Ismaul12-15-04, 07:12 PM | :bump: |
| Ismaul12-16-04, 07:09 PM | I worked a bit on the abilities, so here's a remade version of the special abilities table: Level Abilities 1 Chaotic Ward (Elusive), Fast Retreat, Gossip & Secrets, Special ability 2 Chaotic Ward (Evasion) 3 Special ability 4 Chaotic Ward (Jinx) 5 Special ability 6 Ranged Legerdemain 1/day 7 Chaotic Ward (Mock Danger) 8 Special ability 9 - 10 Chaotic Ward (Nondetection) 11 Special ability 12 Ranged Legerdemain 2/day 13 A Thousand Faces 14 Special ability 15 Chaotic Ward (Improved Evasion) 16 Deceptive Shapes 17 Special ability 18 Ranged Legerdemain 3/day 19 - 20 Special ability Chaotic Ward (Negate Magic), which granted spell resistance, is gone and replace by Jinx at 4th level and Improved Evasion at 15th level. Fast Retreat was added at first level. Here are the descriptions: Chaotic Ward (Ex and Su): Jinx (Su): At 4th level, the trickster channels his trickery and luck to ward him totally, making opponents miserably fail to affect him with spells or attacks. He becomes shielded by a continuous sanctuary effect (as the spell), of a caster level equal to his tricksters level. If the trickster attacks, the effect is temporarily halted. He needs to spend a full round action to make it functional again. Improved Evasion (Ex): As the rogue ability. Fast Retreat: In face of a dangerous situation, in which a trickster is highly likely to find himself, he has no mean of confronting the adversity, thus he runs. He gains the Run feat, and can move up to three times his speed while making a withdraw action. I didn't update the first post directly because I wanted you to have some things to compare. I still need to find things to fill up level 9 and 19. Also, the requirements for the special abilities will be posted soon. As it is, even with special abilities and all, they are still weak. As I didn't want to drown the class with special abilities and bonus feats, I have thought about making their spellcasting a bit better. They gain 2 spellcasting levels each 5 levels instead of each 6. Here is the new possible table of spells per day: Spells per Day Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 1st 3 1 2nd 4 2 3rd 4 3 4th 5 3 1 5th 5 4 2 6th 5 4 3 0 7th 6 4 3 1 8th 6 5 4 2 9th 6 5 4 3 1 10th 6 5 4 3 2 11th 6 5 5 4 3 0 12th 6 5 5 4 3 1 13th 6 5 5 4 4 2 14th 6 5 5 5 4 3 1 15th 6 5 5 5 4 3 2 16th 6 5 5 5 5 4 3 0 17th 6 5 5 5 5 4 3 1 18th 6 5 5 5 5 4 4 2 19th 6 5 5 5 5 5 4 3 20th 6 5 5 5 5 5 4 3 What do you think of it? This gives them a small umph, while still letting wizards and sorcerers learn the spells before they do. Sorcerers still have more spells per day and spells known. And this is without counting the loss of offensive spells. Is this progression fine or should I give them a full 9 level progression? With a full 9 level progression, they will still be behind the sorcerer as they only have 1 spell per day when they gain access to a new spell level, contrarily to the sorcerer that gets 3. And get no offensive spells. If we compare them to the Druid, which gets 4 skill points, Medium BAB, 2 good saves, a plethora of abilities and full casting, I don't know if it would be too much. Opinions?? |