Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Magocrat 01-09-07, 11:36 AM	Mana Mage Flavor text is coming soon. Starting Gold: 2d4 x 10 (50 gp). Starting Age: As sorcerer. Table 1-1: The Mana Mage Base Attack Fort Ref Will Spell Level Bonus Save Save Save Special Level 1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Detect magic 1st 2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 1st 3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 2nd 4th +2 +1 +1 +4 2nd 5th +2 +1 +1 +4 3rd 6th +3 +2 +2 +5 3rd 7th +3 +2 +2 +5 4th 8th +4 +2 +2 +6 4th 9th +4 +3 +3 +6 5th 10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Arcane alacrity 5th 11th +5 +3 +3 +7 6th 12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 6th 13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 7th 14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 7th 15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 8th 16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 8th 17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 9th 18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 9th 19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 9th 20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 9th Class Skills (2 + Int modifier, x4 at 1st level): Concentration, Knowledge (arcana), Listen, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device. Class Features All of the following are class features of the mana mage. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: You are proficient with all simple weapons, but not with any kind of armor or shield. Armor of any kind interferes with your arcane gestures, which can cause your spells with somatic components to fail. Spells: You cast arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. You can cast any spell you know without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or a cleric must (see below). To learn or cast a spell, you must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (10 for 0-level spells, 11 for 1st-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against your spells is 10 + the spell level + your Wisdom modifier. Unlike a wizard or a cleric, you need not prepare your spells in advance. You can cast any spell you know at any time, assuming you have enough mana points to cast a spell of that spell level (see below). You don't have to decide ahead of time which spells you’ll cast. Mana: To cast a spell, you must gather raw arcane energy (also called mana). Whenever you gather mana, you gain a number of mana points equal to one-half your class level, rounded down (to a minimum of 1 mana point). Gathering mana is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity, but you may spend a full-round action to gather twice as much mana. Your mana points may not exceed your class level + your Wisdom modifier. Holding mana is dangerous, however. You may safely hold mana points for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. Thereafter, you take damage equal to the number of mana points you are holding at the beginning of each round. This damage cannot be avoided through any means. You may discharge any number of mana points as a free action. Each spell costs a number of mana points to cast, depending on its spell level. The mana point cost for each spell level is given on Table 1-2: Spell Level and Mana Cost. Table 1-2: Spell Level and Mana CostSpell Mana Level Cost 0 0* 1st 1 2nd 3 3rd 5 4th 7 5th 9 6th 11 7th 13 8th 15 9th 17 *0-level spells (also called cantrips) typically cost no mana points to cast. You can cast a number of cantrips per day equal to twice your Wisdom modifier. Any additional cantrips cost 1 mana point each. Spells Known: Your selection of spells is extremely limited. You begin play knowing four 0-level spells (also called cantrips) and two 1st-level spells of your choice. At each new class level, you gain two new spells. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells you know is not affected by your Wisdom score; the number of spells known is fixed.) To learn a spell of a given level, you must know at least two spells of the previous level. In addition, in order to learn more than two spells of a given level, you must know at least as many spells of the previous level. Upon reaching 3rd level, and at every odd-numbered class level after that (5th, 7th, and so on), you can choose to learn a new spell in place of one you already know. In effect, you “lose” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level spell you can cast. You may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that you gain new spells known for the level. Detect Magic (Sp): You can cast detect magic, as the spell, at will. Your ability to channel arcane energy allows you to actually see that energy. Arcane Alacrity (Ex): Beginning at 10th level, you may gather mana as a move-equivalent action.
docter3578 01-09-07, 11:55 AM	ummmm.. ever heard of spell points. they are like mana but in DMG i believe any casting class can use them. no more spell slots, but instead spells use spell points and depending on spell lvl its costs different amount of points.
Xylem 01-09-07, 12:09 PM	This is interesting, but I'm not going to be able to decide if it is balanced or not without thinking about it a while. I will note, however, that the usually objection to spell point systems is that they allow the higher level spells to be used more often. Given that this class can recharge its magical powers repeatedly, this could be an issue particularly outside of combat (infinite Wall of Stone or Wall of Iron anyone?). In combat, the requirement to take a standard action to gather mana is a significant handicap (even after 10th level they can only fire off a midlevel spell per round), but before battle this class would be insanely good at buffing the party, as they could cast essentially unlimited buffing spells. Some questions: Is being knocked unconscious when holding mana supposed to be a death sentence? Why is Use Magic Device a class ability? Generally, full casters don't get this (the Bard is a special case, being a fairly limited caster). Is this intended to compensate for the fact that if caught unprepared they can't do anything? Why is the casting ability Wisdom? (Not that there is anything wrong with using Wisdom, but it’s not the usual thing for arcane casters -- is another in the series of wisdom-based arcane casters like the original version of the Intuitive (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=657625) or the Quietist (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=658478) that recover spells quickly? What if you use some of your gathered mana, gather more, use some of it, gather more, etc? Does this count against your limit on holding mana, or does it reset every time you cast a spell or release mana?
Magocrat 01-09-07, 01:56 PM	docter3578: Yes, I've heard of spell points. The mana mage uses something similar to the spell point system, but I have simplified it a bit (mayhaps at the cost of balance, but that's the critics' call). However, the system is based off of the arcanist, which was made by Jaerom Darkwind. (I must say that I consider the arcanist an excellent submission to the boards, and I suggest it to anyone who wants a spellcaster who falls only slightly out of the norm set by the PHB.) Xylem: You have a point, I haven't given the out-of-combat utility of the mana mage's mana recovery a lot of thought. I am considering giving the mana mage its own spell list, so I'll keep that in mind. Knocked unconscious when holding mana might indeed be a good strategy to kill a mana mage. However, as it takes only a free action, an intelligent mana mage could just discharge his mana points when he is low on hit points. (Of course, as an arcane spellcaster, he might be wise not to risk hit point loss at all.) Use Magic Device as a class skill for the mana mage is, as you said, a countermeasure against ambushes, but it also represents the mana mage's intuitive approach to magic. The mana mage gathers raw magical energy to cast his spells, so his understanding of magic is a bit more profound when it comes to inherent magic in items. And, err, whoops. I didn't know there was any other character class like this, let alone two. Thanks for pointing that out. (My compliments on your character class, especially on the flavor text.) The primary spellcasting ability score of the mana mage is Wisdom because he must be 'in tune' with the ambient flow of magic to cast his spells; his force of personality and his reasoning capability (respectively Charisma and Intelligence) can't aid him in that. And as for your last question; each amount of mana points you gather has its own duration during which it can be held without hit point loss. It does require a lot of accountancy because of this. (For those who are familiar with accountancy, I think that the FIFO-method would apply to mana point gathering. Basically, it means that the mana points you gathered first go out first, or First In, First Out.) Anyways, thank you both for your comments, and I'll try to create a spell list for the mana mage ASAP. And flavor text. You got to have flavor text.
Xylem 01-09-07, 02:16 PM	Xylem: You have a point, I haven't given the out-of-combat utility of the mana mage's mana recovery a lot of thought. I am considering giving the mana mage its own spell list, so I'll keep that in mind. I suspect giving them their own spell list would be a good idea, but if so you should try to specify a few rules on how to add new spells to the list when more are published. Knocked unconscious when holding mana might indeed be a good strategy to kill a mana mage. However, as it takes only a free action, an intelligent mana mage could just discharge his mana points when he is low on hit points. (Of course, as an arcane spellcaster, he might be wise not to risk hit point loss at all.). Also conside the effect of a simple Sleep or Color Spray spell on a Mana Mage with held mana points . . . grim. It might make sense to simply say they automatically release any mana points held if they become unconscious or confused. And as for your last question; each amount of mana points you gather has its own duration during which it can be held without hit point loss. It does require a lot of accountancy because of this. (For those who are familiar with accountancy, I think that the FIFO-method would apply to mana point gathering. Basically, it means that the mana points you gathered first go out first, or First In, First Out.). FIFO is also a term found in computer science where it indicates a queue data structure (as opposed to a stack, which is LIFO). Anyways, thank you both for your comments, and I'll try to create a spell list for the mana mage ASAP. And flavor text. You got to have flavor text. If you feel like swiping any or all of my flavor text for the Intuitive, feel free. I don't think you mentioned what size hit die Mana Mages get -- I've been assuming a d4, but a d6 could be reasonable.
Tempest Stormwind 01-09-07, 02:17 PM	Spells not written with spell points in mind break if used in spell point systems. The sorcerer/wizard list is entirely comprised of such spells. There's only so far you can go with the class design before you have to start tweaking the spells, and at that point you may as well be using a system written for it from the ground up, such as psionics. Familiarize yourself with psionics if you want to see a spell point system in action that works -- useful when designing the spells in question. That said, I like the general idea here, about gathering power and then expending it, essentially balancing the caster to a "per encounter" system. Interestingly, I'm actually working on my next book for Dreamscarred, which uses a similar system to replace divine magic altogether. With a few tweaks, this MIGHT work as an approach, but I fear that it'll just compound the problems.
Magocrat 01-09-07, 02:35 PM	Tempest Stormwind: I don't know whether spells break in spell point systems, because I've never actually played with those systems. That means I'll trust your experience on the matter. But your suggestion of psionics is an excellent one. As a matter of fact, I'm reading through the list of psion/wilder powers, to see if that list might conform to Xylem's non-buff suggestion. Would it be too much of a kick in the face to psionics if I just said that it basically uses the psionics system for 'casting' his spells and using the power list instead of the spell list, but still calling it 'arcane magic'? Because, now that I'm thinking of it, the psionics system would be just perfect for the mana mage.
Seerow 01-09-07, 02:41 PM	It wouldn't be a kick in the face. In fact, they even support just that on the Psionics boards. Head over there and look for the thread "Truenaming Psionics". There they give powers more spell-like names, giving it a more arcane feel.
Tempest Stormwind 01-09-07, 02:57 PM	It wouldn't be a kick in the face. In fact, they even support just that on the Psionics boards. Head over there and look for the thread "Truenaming Psionics". There they give powers more spell-like names, giving it a more arcane feel. Do note that the thread you mention was written for the player who wants to play psionics but the DM says "too sci-fi" or some other silly flavor complaint. Magocrat: At that point, you might as well just take the psion and devise a working system of recharges. This has been attempted several times on the psi boards but to no avail -- but NONE of them ever tried a "charge-up" system like this, which just might be the breath of fresh air such attempts needed. Personally? I'd head to the psi boards and post this there as a new potential method of handling per-encounter psionics. I doubt it's the miracle solution, but it comes close. Do note that damage alone isn't going to balance holding mana (or power points): all you need is access to a single self-healing spell or power (something psionics isn't half-bad at; technically even POLYMORPH would do it for wizards). Another angle to look at is nonlethal damage that can't be healed -- similar to dehydration or exhaustion damage. Another option is Ability Burn. Give the class an upper limit on how much he can safely store (enough for dire emergencies, such as an instant Feather Fall/Catfall or an emergency Dimension Door at high levels), and if he's got more than that at the end of his turn, he takes one point of Wisdom burn. (Ability burn is a nifty thing the XPH uses that no other book does, despite it being FAR better than Ability Damage to balance things (I'm looking at you, hellfire warlock with your non-drawback of Con damage. One level of binder and you can ignore it). Essentially, it's ability damage that can only be healed through natural healing.)
Kresalak 01-09-07, 03:32 PM	Perhaps he can hold his class level in mana at one time without taking damage/ability burn? That would allow him to do SOMETHING in an ambush, but not much until he can gather more. For the class itself, I suggest giving it more special abilities. 18 of them. Also, it should have it's own spell list, to avoid the spells that break the game. The limited spell list (2 per level) kind of sucks, but I have a way to fix it. Give them a spellbook, from which they prepare spells. They then cast these spells spontaneously. They can only prepare a limited number of spells, and they can only change their spells known after sleeping 8 hours. The chart should look like this: Level 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1 2 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 2 4 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 3 4 2 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 4 4 4 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 5 4 4 2 -- -- -- -- -- -- 6 4 4 4 -- -- -- -- -- -- 7 4 4 4 2 -- -- -- -- -- 8 4 4 4 4 -- -- -- -- -- 9 4 4 4 4 2 -- -- -- -- 10 4 4 4 4 4 -- -- -- -- 11 4 4 4 4 4 2 -- -- -- 12 4 4 4 4 4 4 -- -- -- 13 4 4 4 4 4 4 2 -- -- 14 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 -- -- 15 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 2 -- 16 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 -- 17 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 2 18 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 19* 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 20* 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 *At levels 19 and 20, the Mage may gain two extra spells prepared in any spell level, though he may add only one per level.