character creation method? [Archive] - Wizards Community

character creation method? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Elthbert
05-29-04, 12:44 PM I notice on these boards ALOT of people talk about buying you stats,l While have played in buy systems( corps, whitewolf,etc) I have NEVER considered useing it in D&D I have played for about 24 years now and have rolled up many, characters and npcs, but never would have concidered a buy system so after seeing how many people apparantly use them I am curious: how do you make your characters?

We usually use the 4d6 drop the lowest die arrange as you wish, but for most of my playing time( 15 years or so of it) we would roll either 3d6 straight down, or 4d6 straight down and play what fit your stats method( this was ruff in first edition) of Character generation. So agian how do you make your characters?
MasterZelgadis
05-29-04, 01:20 PM I am pretty new to the game, bought the 3 Core Rulebooks in Denkark, in year 2000. Since then I read a lot, but never played a game. Now I have a (very small) group, where I supposed to be the DM (hope I will make it *g*). The group consists of two players (not many people here who play the game...haver to...convert them ^^) and every one plays two characters.

I told them to use the Floating Reroll system for character-generation, cause I think it's the best one. With buy-systems the players can form the characters too much to their wish-chars, with no surprise-effect ^^
So it has to be a roll-system, but a system where you can assign the stats, so you don't get a fighter with 9 str and 18 wis.
And the players should be able to choose a class themselves, not being forced to take one fitting the rolled stats.

Monday will be our first game. Its not only my first game, but also their first one, so I can't disgrace myself :D
Lyrian
05-29-04, 01:49 PM I live in Ukraine, and that's not just the place where noone plays DnD, its also the place where you cant buy any rulebooks!

Recently I imported some with the help of my relative, and we just started playing.

My whole party (3 people, 3 PCs) rolls 3d6 for stats six times, with no stat switches, and look what they get:

7/11/11/15/13/10 gnome wizard;

17/11/9/13/10/15 human fighter/barbarian;

and a 12/16/11/13/14/9 dwarf cleric.

Cool, huh? :D I thought so too. I was just about to tell them they can reroll when they all said "lets start playing!", so that I couldn't continue my phrase.

My point? It's all about getting used to it. :D
Ax'Orl
05-29-04, 02:00 PM I have played in both, whereas I like the possibility of mulitple 18's that is there with die rolling, the possibility of NO scores above 12 keeps me using point buy mostly. That is the beauty of the system. Even score ranges for all pc's (No godlike PC's with their fool partners), cuts down on the 3INT half-orcs, and you can tailor your stats to match your vision for your character. The table for point buy system is right in the DMG, dont have mine with me but it is near the starting gold stuff.

Bad experience with a roll 3d6 inline game once (2e). I usually played Thieves and Fighters in 2e, but in the game in question, I rolled nothing higher than an 11 for the first 3 stats (physical) and an 18 in both INT and CHA. What kinda character is that for 2e....Especially when my roomie (at the time) rolled his up and got 3 18s for physical and single digits for the others...and he usually plays the Paladin or Wizard!!!!
MasterZelgadis
05-29-04, 02:26 PM got 2 chars for my sister now.
16/13/16/14/17/13 Human Cleric
16/14/15/13/12/9 Dwarven Fighter

both with Floating Reroll System
Ax'Orl
05-29-04, 02:40 PM Originally posted by MasterZelgadis
got 2 chars for my sister now.
16/13/16/14/17/13 Human Cleric
16/14/15/13/12/9 Dwarven Fighter

both with Floating Reroll System

That is the problem I have with die rolling

no matter how you arrange your stats with the 5 char. named above the gnomish wizard has a net bonus of +1, the human fighter +5, the Dwarven cleric +6, the dwarven fighter +8 and that Human Cleric a +13. The cleric has a higher bonus than nearly any 2 of the other characters combined and even higher than 3 fo them combined! Now, imagine if you had rolled a couple of 18's on that cleric....Die rolls are in a way tooo random for character creation, character GENERATION yes, but not creation.
Jack Daniel
05-29-04, 02:51 PM I let characters choose between the standard "4d6 six times," and a simple point buy that treats all of your stats as if rolled average on the 4d6 method (12/12/12/13/13/13 = 75 points; adjust as low as 3, or high as 18, at your leisure). To date, nobody has ever chosen the points method. Everybody always thinks they'll get lucky with the dice. They don't, but hoping for that 18 is part of the fun.
Lord Psynister
05-29-04, 02:52 PM I switch back and forth between:
Point Buy (28-38 points)
Floating 4d6, reroll 1s, drop lowest
Floating 4d6 drop low
...and whatever the new players choose.

I tend to Point Buy when playing with other veteran players that know their stuff. Option 2 there is usually more for teaching new people how to play. It usually gets some higher scores for them and they feel better and more powerful in the game. The straight 4d6 comes up when I've got a mix of vets and newbs.
HoylePhoenix
05-29-04, 03:19 PM I used to use the standard rolling method of 3d6...but too often would someone roll amazing stats and someone else would have some of the worst rolls imaginable. Hence why I like the point-buy method; everyone has an equal chance.

Now before someone talks about how 'life isn't equal and everyone isn't born equal'... keep in mind this is a game where the purpose is to have fun, and it's been my experience that everyone having the same equal chance during character creation (of all things) makes things more fun for everyone.
MasterZelgadis
05-29-04, 03:43 PM That is the problem I have with die rolling

no matter how you arrange your stats with the 5 char. named above the gnomish wizard has a net bonus of +1, the human fighter +5, the Dwarven cleric +6, the dwarven fighter +8 and that Human Cleric a +13. The cleric has a higher bonus than nearly any 2 of the other characters combined and even higher than 3 fo them combined! Now, imagine if you had rolled a couple of 18's on that cleric....Die rolls are in a way tooo random for character creation, character GENERATION yes, but not creation.

that's the problem I have...when generating/creating a character I don't want that the players have full control over it.
but everyone has an other opinion there...
Elthbert
05-29-04, 04:33 PM Now before someone talks about how 'life isn't equal and everyone isn't born equal'... keep in mind this is a game where the purpose is to have fun, and it's been my experience that everyone having the same equal chance during character creation (of all things) makes things more fun for everyone
Interesting I guess it's point of view. I think everyone rolling 4d6 droping one and arrangeing stats IS an equal chance, the most fun I think I have ever had either playing or DMing is with characters who had wild variations in there stats-- My last campaign there was a gnomish thief illusionist( mainly illusionist) he had insanely good stats except one he had a 6 wisdom. His player is a good roleplayer and ws able to pull of a genuis with NO common sense it was great. I am not knocking those of you who use the point buy method I still just can't get my mind around it.
Lord Psynister
05-29-04, 04:59 PM I don't like the randomness of dice all that much.

I had a game with 3 players, we used the 4d6, drop lowest method, and I watched them roll each of their stats, with dice that we had just picked up from the store 5 minutes ago.

Player 1: 18, 18, 18, 16, 17, 18

Player 2: 14, 12, 9, 16, 13, 11

Player 3: 12, 8, 8, 11, 10, 12

When something like that happens, I usually just have the guy with the crap-stats reroll his and then we move on from there. But using methods like Point Buy keep you from having to worry about equallity and such, because everyone puts their stuff wherever they want to, and everybody's got just as good an overall character as everybody else.
Elthbert
05-29-04, 05:05 PM I guess that part of the appeal to me the randomness of it there was nothing wrong with the last guys character it just required a bit more concideration about the "role" it would fill than the top guy who gcould pretty much pick his "Role". Strange, I have been playing this game since 1980 and yet I have never actually met anyone who used a point buy system. Here it appears to be very common.
Frodo Lives
05-29-04, 06:43 PM I personally like rolling for stats, which ever method used by the group and determined by the DM is fine. We usually use 4d6 drop lowest (min bonuses +5 max +10) which usually makes fairly balanced characters. However, there has been a time or two where one player rolls great or really bad but that's what I like about it is the chance.

I hate point buy because it reduces yet another aspect of character creation to a mathamatical formula to min max. With all the feats, PrC, and classes out there a smart player can make a very powerful character just by finding the right combonations, the same with point buy. A smart player can min max and forgo any variance or "wasted" points to create a optimal character where as another player will want to have a fighter with a decent charisma, for no other reason than to make him a little different. Rolling sets up for a little more varied and interesting stats, where point buy just begs for min maxing.
Klingon
05-30-04, 04:59 AM Does anybody remember the rule (I think it was 1st edition AD&D only) where you would get a bonus to earned experience for a high stat in your prime attribute?

Does anybody but me think that just sounds wrong? The guy with the biggest strength (and therefore the most kills) has his already formidable experience point lead over his party-mates acelerated even more?

My idea, is reverse that. You want an 18 strength and con on that fighter? OK, but you're gonna take a 15% (for example) penalty to experience, if you do.

This makes the guys with the insane stats work harder, take bigger risks, just to keep even. Of course, you can't do group experience with this, otherwise the high-statted char will simply fall behind and never catch up.

Otherwise, the player who manages to roll a series of truly insane stats wil feel robbed if you simply take points away, in order to preserve balance. Give him the option. That way, if it turns out for the worst, he at least played a part in the decision.
Klingon
05-30-04, 05:06 AM Blasted server issues made me double-post. :mad:

Further, apparently I can't delete my own post.

That's OK; I can just edit the *&^*&^% out of it. (it really irks me I can't delete my own post, and before anybody asks, yes, I did check the 'delete?' box. :rolleyes:

Oh, well. Hopefully my post at least gave you guys some ideas on how to deal with this situation.
Elthbert
05-30-04, 11:39 AM I always liked the 10% bonus to XP from stats- it makes sense reallyit is easier to learn something if you are already gifted in that area. That is actually quit e realistic.
CJ1720
05-30-04, 08:34 PM What I've noticed is that people who like to have "higher" powered characters like the buy method. I used to like it best when I first started playing 20 years ago. At that time I wanted to play a "hero." I couldn't figure out why anyone would want to play someone who was "average."

Now, I prefer rolling up characters. I usually use a variation of the 4d6 reroll 1's and drop the lowest. I roll up 7 scores and drop the lowest from that. It usually keeps the players happy with their scores. I found it a good compormise for the people who are worried about the effect their ability scores will have on their future characters and those who prefer coping with the situation at hand with the resources at hand.

I also feel that if the DM says that no score can be over 18 before racial bonuses, then the rule should also be, no score can be under 10 before racial bonuses.

I've never found that the ability scores really had that great of impact on the game. Maybe I'm not detail oriented enough or mathimatically savvy enough to have noticed. Sure your saving throws, AC and attack bonus are all based on them, but after game play starts, I rarely sit and rue the day that my character didn't have an 18 in something.

I know there is a bit of a conflict here, but there is always anxiety about your character's chances once the game begins. The main rule is to have fun. Some people have fun when they've min-maxed their characters. Some have fun when they roll them up and play the hand they were dealt. Some have fun some place in between.
khyron1144
05-30-04, 09:17 PM I go with 4d6 drop the lowest and arrange according to taste method with the following modifications:
You may reroll one 1 in each set of four dice. If it comes up as a 1,on the second roll count it as a 2.
After racial modifiers the minimum for any attribute is 2, including Intelligence (no pulling the Half-orc trick).

I like dice because it gives an interesting range. And with my way of pushing up the average, there are few total scrubs, but many characters with a noteworthy flaw or two.

Parties of vastly varrying differing power don't bother me much. I ran a DC Super Heroes campaign comprised of Dead Shot (not a scrub, but probably constructed from fewer Hero Points than Bat Man), the Barry Allen version of Flash (probably made from half the Hero Points of Superman), and a homemade character created from a half-Superman number of hero points with a focus on durability and toughness. It worked out fairly nicely.

Think of the Justice League. They've got Superman and Green Lantern, the two most powerful heroes on Earth, and then they've got guys like Green Arrow and Hawkman, two guys who can hold up their end in a fight but who are in the bottom one percent when it comes to raw power.
Fleymen
05-31-04, 12:48 AM Hi. Here is how we create our characters:

Roll 4D6 for each attribute, from top to botton, not selected.

One time you are allowed to swap any two numbers

Now distribute 6 further Points on you attributes, whereby a 17 costs 2 and a 18 costs 3. So bringing an attribute from 15 to 18 would use up all six points.

We found that the characters created with this method tend to be strong, but also tend to keep some weak spots.

I am quite happy with this method.

Greetings.
Uwe
Lycanthrope King
05-31-04, 08:26 AM The DM I play with favors the buy system, which I don't really like. I favor more the floating reroll, and usually, if I am the DM, Set the total points to be from about 76 total ability points to 86 (adding them all together). There is one method however I would like to try, I usually use rolling 4d6 7 times, dropping the lowest die roll of each set and the lowest dice configuration, but I want to roll in straight order, so the 1st die you roll is for strength and so on, and when your abilities are rolled, then you choose your class and race, just a bit of fun so the character is based on their abilities, rather the abilities being based on the class and race.
MasterZelgadis
05-31-04, 10:34 AM so there is a chance of getting a whole party of weak wizards...no, I don't like assigning scores in a given order
Elthbert
05-31-04, 12:16 PM I did it for 15 years or so, never had any problems with asigning abilities in the order rolled, you just might end up with a really wise fighter or what have you. I always found it more interesting.
ninjarabbit
05-31-04, 08:03 PM Point buy- fairest to players, easier for a DM since he doesn't have to watch the rolls
dice rolling- more realistic and fun

I like to use a 3d6 reroll any ones or 2d6 + 6 and place them them anywhere you want to avoid any really bad stats.
Sensei Gith
05-31-04, 09:47 PM Point buy, because it just plain sucks to be twice or half as powerful as the next guy. Exceptional stats (either way) can unbalance individual players or entire parties and make it less fun for everyone.
Frodo Lives
05-31-04, 11:35 PM Originally posted by Sensei Gith
Point buy, because it just plain sucks to be twice or half as powerful as the next guy. Exceptional stats (either way) can unbalance individual players or entire parties and make it less fun for everyone.

There is some truth to what you are saying, however if everyone at the table is given the same chance and a fair DM that IMX is very rare that the difference is THAT much of a factor.

Some basic rules to total bonuses, or even have everyone have the same set of stats (rolled any way you like) is, to me, far preferable than point buy.

To me point buy reduces yet another aspect of character creation to a simple mathamatical formula and another way to find the best combo to min max. It can lead to less individual characters and simply carbon copies of the most (statistically) powerful character possible with no room for individualism or uniqueness out of needing to keep up with the other characters by not "wasting" points on less than optimal builds.

Already there is too much min maxing when it comes to classes, feats, and skills. Many players don't want to deviate from that path simply because they need to keep up with other players at the table for their characters to feel useful. Point buy is just an extension of that.
Elthbert
05-31-04, 11:51 PM I agree I never liked point buys even in systems designed around it, balanced yes, fun no, I guess if it was a short term character or a hack and slash kind of thing it wouldn't really matter but my Characters are always liveing things and I wouldn't want to turn there creation into an equation. I take what i get and work with it as best I can. Sometimes I have been really lucky other times not so lucky but it always adds character to my Character. But thats just me.
Zelphi
06-01-04, 08:55 AM 1d12 +6... though If I'm aiming for a higher party i'll tell them to role 1d8 +10.

It avoids the lower roles of 4d6 - 1d6 and keeps things average... getting 12 with each stat isn't so bad, and if you're the only one around, they have to take you. So really it's in their interest to compensate the weaker character first.

Last time I got a low roler - I just multiclassed like crazy to compensate. Point buy can just end up with generic uninteresting characters - roling ends up with real and forced diversity and better play.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Elthbert 05-29-04, 12:44 PM	I notice on these boards ALOT of people talk about buying you stats,l While have played in buy systems( corps, whitewolf,etc) I have NEVER considered useing it in D&D I have played for about 24 years now and have rolled up many, characters and npcs, but never would have concidered a buy system so after seeing how many people apparantly use them I am curious: how do you make your characters? We usually use the 4d6 drop the lowest die arrange as you wish, but for most of my playing time( 15 years or so of it) we would roll either 3d6 straight down, or 4d6 straight down and play what fit your stats method( this was ruff in first edition) of Character generation. So agian how do you make your characters?
MasterZelgadis 05-29-04, 01:20 PM	I am pretty new to the game, bought the 3 Core Rulebooks in Denkark, in year 2000. Since then I read a lot, but never played a game. Now I have a (very small) group, where I supposed to be the DM (hope I will make it g). The group consists of two players (not many people here who play the game...haver to...convert them ^^) and every one plays two characters. I told them to use the Floating Reroll system for character-generation, cause I think it's the best one. With buy-systems the players can form the characters too much to their wish-chars, with no surprise-effect ^^ So it has to be a roll-system, but a system where you can assign the stats, so you don't get a fighter with 9 str and 18 wis. And the players should be able to choose a class themselves, not being forced to take one fitting the rolled stats. Monday will be our first game. Its not only my first game, but also their first one, so I can't disgrace myself :D
Lyrian 05-29-04, 01:49 PM	I live in Ukraine, and that's not just the place where noone plays DnD, its also the place where you cant buy any rulebooks! Recently I imported some with the help of my relative, and we just started playing. My whole party (3 people, 3 PCs) rolls 3d6 for stats six times, with no stat switches, and look what they get: 7/11/11/15/13/10 gnome wizard; 17/11/9/13/10/15 human fighter/barbarian; and a 12/16/11/13/14/9 dwarf cleric. Cool, huh? :D I thought so too. I was just about to tell them they can reroll when they all said "lets start playing!", so that I couldn't continue my phrase. My point? It's all about getting used to it. :D
Ax'Orl 05-29-04, 02:00 PM	I have played in both, whereas I like the possibility of mulitple 18's that is there with die rolling, the possibility of NO scores above 12 keeps me using point buy mostly. That is the beauty of the system. Even score ranges for all pc's (No godlike PC's with their fool partners), cuts down on the 3INT half-orcs, and you can tailor your stats to match your vision for your character. The table for point buy system is right in the DMG, dont have mine with me but it is near the starting gold stuff. Bad experience with a roll 3d6 inline game once (2e). I usually played Thieves and Fighters in 2e, but in the game in question, I rolled nothing higher than an 11 for the first 3 stats (physical) and an 18 in both INT and CHA. What kinda character is that for 2e....Especially when my roomie (at the time) rolled his up and got 3 18s for physical and single digits for the others...and he usually plays the Paladin or Wizard!!!!
MasterZelgadis 05-29-04, 02:26 PM	got 2 chars for my sister now. 16/13/16/14/17/13 Human Cleric 16/14/15/13/12/9 Dwarven Fighter both with Floating Reroll System
Ax'Orl 05-29-04, 02:40 PM	Originally posted by MasterZelgadis got 2 chars for my sister now. 16/13/16/14/17/13 Human Cleric 16/14/15/13/12/9 Dwarven Fighter both with Floating Reroll System That is the problem I have with die rolling no matter how you arrange your stats with the 5 char. named above the gnomish wizard has a net bonus of +1, the human fighter +5, the Dwarven cleric +6, the dwarven fighter +8 and that Human Cleric a +13. The cleric has a higher bonus than nearly any 2 of the other characters combined and even higher than 3 fo them combined! Now, imagine if you had rolled a couple of 18's on that cleric....Die rolls are in a way tooo random for character creation, character GENERATION yes, but not creation.
Jack Daniel 05-29-04, 02:51 PM	I let characters choose between the standard "4d6 six times," and a simple point buy that treats all of your stats as if rolled average on the 4d6 method (12/12/12/13/13/13 = 75 points; adjust as low as 3, or high as 18, at your leisure). To date, nobody has ever chosen the points method. Everybody always thinks they'll get lucky with the dice. They don't, but hoping for that 18 is part of the fun.
Lord Psynister 05-29-04, 02:52 PM	I switch back and forth between: Point Buy (28-38 points) Floating 4d6, reroll 1s, drop lowest Floating 4d6 drop low ...and whatever the new players choose. I tend to Point Buy when playing with other veteran players that know their stuff. Option 2 there is usually more for teaching new people how to play. It usually gets some higher scores for them and they feel better and more powerful in the game. The straight 4d6 comes up when I've got a mix of vets and newbs.
HoylePhoenix 05-29-04, 03:19 PM	I used to use the standard rolling method of 3d6...but too often would someone roll amazing stats and someone else would have some of the worst rolls imaginable. Hence why I like the point-buy method; everyone has an equal chance. Now before someone talks about how 'life isn't equal and everyone isn't born equal'... keep in mind this is a game where the purpose is to have fun, and it's been my experience that everyone having the same equal chance during character creation (of all things) makes things more fun for everyone.
MasterZelgadis 05-29-04, 03:43 PM	That is the problem I have with die rolling no matter how you arrange your stats with the 5 char. named above the gnomish wizard has a net bonus of +1, the human fighter +5, the Dwarven cleric +6, the dwarven fighter +8 and that Human Cleric a +13. The cleric has a higher bonus than nearly any 2 of the other characters combined and even higher than 3 fo them combined! Now, imagine if you had rolled a couple of 18's on that cleric....Die rolls are in a way tooo random for character creation, character GENERATION yes, but not creation. that's the problem I have...when generating/creating a character I don't want that the players have full control over it. but everyone has an other opinion there...
Elthbert 05-29-04, 04:33 PM	Now before someone talks about how 'life isn't equal and everyone isn't born equal'... keep in mind this is a game where the purpose is to have fun, and it's been my experience that everyone having the same equal chance during character creation (of all things) makes things more fun for everyone Interesting I guess it's point of view. I think everyone rolling 4d6 droping one and arrangeing stats IS an equal chance, the most fun I think I have ever had either playing or DMing is with characters who had wild variations in there stats-- My last campaign there was a gnomish thief illusionist( mainly illusionist) he had insanely good stats except one he had a 6 wisdom. His player is a good roleplayer and ws able to pull of a genuis with NO common sense it was great. I am not knocking those of you who use the point buy method I still just can't get my mind around it.
Lord Psynister 05-29-04, 04:59 PM	I don't like the randomness of dice all that much. I had a game with 3 players, we used the 4d6, drop lowest method, and I watched them roll each of their stats, with dice that we had just picked up from the store 5 minutes ago. Player 1: 18, 18, 18, 16, 17, 18 Player 2: 14, 12, 9, 16, 13, 11 Player 3: 12, 8, 8, 11, 10, 12 When something like that happens, I usually just have the guy with the crap-stats reroll his and then we move on from there. But using methods like Point Buy keep you from having to worry about equallity and such, because everyone puts their stuff wherever they want to, and everybody's got just as good an overall character as everybody else.
Elthbert 05-29-04, 05:05 PM	I guess that part of the appeal to me the randomness of it there was nothing wrong with the last guys character it just required a bit more concideration about the "role" it would fill than the top guy who gcould pretty much pick his "Role". Strange, I have been playing this game since 1980 and yet I have never actually met anyone who used a point buy system. Here it appears to be very common.
Frodo Lives 05-29-04, 06:43 PM	I personally like rolling for stats, which ever method used by the group and determined by the DM is fine. We usually use 4d6 drop lowest (min bonuses +5 max +10) which usually makes fairly balanced characters. However, there has been a time or two where one player rolls great or really bad but that's what I like about it is the chance. I hate point buy because it reduces yet another aspect of character creation to a mathamatical formula to min max. With all the feats, PrC, and classes out there a smart player can make a very powerful character just by finding the right combonations, the same with point buy. A smart player can min max and forgo any variance or "wasted" points to create a optimal character where as another player will want to have a fighter with a decent charisma, for no other reason than to make him a little different. Rolling sets up for a little more varied and interesting stats, where point buy just begs for min maxing.
Klingon 05-30-04, 04:59 AM	Does anybody remember the rule (I think it was 1st edition AD&D only) where you would get a bonus to earned experience for a high stat in your prime attribute? Does anybody but me think that just sounds wrong? The guy with the biggest strength (and therefore the most kills) has his already formidable experience point lead over his party-mates acelerated even more? My idea, is reverse that. You want an 18 strength and con on that fighter? OK, but you're gonna take a 15% (for example) penalty to experience, if you do. This makes the guys with the insane stats work harder, take bigger risks, just to keep even. Of course, you can't do group experience with this, otherwise the high-statted char will simply fall behind and never catch up. Otherwise, the player who manages to roll a series of truly insane stats wil feel robbed if you simply take points away, in order to preserve balance. Give him the option. That way, if it turns out for the worst, he at least played a part in the decision.
Klingon 05-30-04, 05:06 AM	Blasted server issues made me double-post. :mad: Further, apparently I can't delete my own post. That's OK; I can just edit the &^&^% out of it. (it really irks me I can't delete my own post, and before anybody asks, yes, I did check the 'delete?' box. :rolleyes: Oh, well. Hopefully my post at least gave you guys some ideas on how to deal with this situation.
Elthbert 05-30-04, 11:39 AM	I always liked the 10% bonus to XP from stats- it makes sense reallyit is easier to learn something if you are already gifted in that area. That is actually quit e realistic.
CJ1720 05-30-04, 08:34 PM	What I've noticed is that people who like to have "higher" powered characters like the buy method. I used to like it best when I first started playing 20 years ago. At that time I wanted to play a "hero." I couldn't figure out why anyone would want to play someone who was "average." Now, I prefer rolling up characters. I usually use a variation of the 4d6 reroll 1's and drop the lowest. I roll up 7 scores and drop the lowest from that. It usually keeps the players happy with their scores. I found it a good compormise for the people who are worried about the effect their ability scores will have on their future characters and those who prefer coping with the situation at hand with the resources at hand. I also feel that if the DM says that no score can be over 18 before racial bonuses, then the rule should also be, no score can be under 10 before racial bonuses. I've never found that the ability scores really had that great of impact on the game. Maybe I'm not detail oriented enough or mathimatically savvy enough to have noticed. Sure your saving throws, AC and attack bonus are all based on them, but after game play starts, I rarely sit and rue the day that my character didn't have an 18 in something. I know there is a bit of a conflict here, but there is always anxiety about your character's chances once the game begins. The main rule is to have fun. Some people have fun when they've min-maxed their characters. Some have fun when they roll them up and play the hand they were dealt. Some have fun some place in between.
khyron1144 05-30-04, 09:17 PM	I go with 4d6 drop the lowest and arrange according to taste method with the following modifications: You may reroll one 1 in each set of four dice. If it comes up as a 1,on the second roll count it as a 2. After racial modifiers the minimum for any attribute is 2, including Intelligence (no pulling the Half-orc trick). I like dice because it gives an interesting range. And with my way of pushing up the average, there are few total scrubs, but many characters with a noteworthy flaw or two. Parties of vastly varrying differing power don't bother me much. I ran a DC Super Heroes campaign comprised of Dead Shot (not a scrub, but probably constructed from fewer Hero Points than Bat Man), the Barry Allen version of Flash (probably made from half the Hero Points of Superman), and a homemade character created from a half-Superman number of hero points with a focus on durability and toughness. It worked out fairly nicely. Think of the Justice League. They've got Superman and Green Lantern, the two most powerful heroes on Earth, and then they've got guys like Green Arrow and Hawkman, two guys who can hold up their end in a fight but who are in the bottom one percent when it comes to raw power.
Fleymen 05-31-04, 12:48 AM	Hi. Here is how we create our characters: Roll 4D6 for each attribute, from top to botton, not selected. One time you are allowed to swap any two numbers Now distribute 6 further Points on you attributes, whereby a 17 costs 2 and a 18 costs 3. So bringing an attribute from 15 to 18 would use up all six points. We found that the characters created with this method tend to be strong, but also tend to keep some weak spots. I am quite happy with this method. Greetings. Uwe
Lycanthrope King 05-31-04, 08:26 AM	The DM I play with favors the buy system, which I don't really like. I favor more the floating reroll, and usually, if I am the DM, Set the total points to be from about 76 total ability points to 86 (adding them all together). There is one method however I would like to try, I usually use rolling 4d6 7 times, dropping the lowest die roll of each set and the lowest dice configuration, but I want to roll in straight order, so the 1st die you roll is for strength and so on, and when your abilities are rolled, then you choose your class and race, just a bit of fun so the character is based on their abilities, rather the abilities being based on the class and race.
MasterZelgadis 05-31-04, 10:34 AM	so there is a chance of getting a whole party of weak wizards...no, I don't like assigning scores in a given order
Elthbert 05-31-04, 12:16 PM	I did it for 15 years or so, never had any problems with asigning abilities in the order rolled, you just might end up with a really wise fighter or what have you. I always found it more interesting.
ninjarabbit 05-31-04, 08:03 PM	Point buy- fairest to players, easier for a DM since he doesn't have to watch the rolls dice rolling- more realistic and fun I like to use a 3d6 reroll any ones or 2d6 + 6 and place them them anywhere you want to avoid any really bad stats.
Sensei Gith 05-31-04, 09:47 PM	Point buy, because it just plain sucks to be twice or half as powerful as the next guy. Exceptional stats (either way) can unbalance individual players or entire parties and make it less fun for everyone.
Frodo Lives 05-31-04, 11:35 PM	Originally posted by Sensei Gith Point buy, because it just plain sucks to be twice or half as powerful as the next guy. Exceptional stats (either way) can unbalance individual players or entire parties and make it less fun for everyone. There is some truth to what you are saying, however if everyone at the table is given the same chance and a fair DM that IMX is very rare that the difference is THAT much of a factor. Some basic rules to total bonuses, or even have everyone have the same set of stats (rolled any way you like) is, to me, far preferable than point buy. To me point buy reduces yet another aspect of character creation to a simple mathamatical formula and another way to find the best combo to min max. It can lead to less individual characters and simply carbon copies of the most (statistically) powerful character possible with no room for individualism or uniqueness out of needing to keep up with the other characters by not "wasting" points on less than optimal builds. Already there is too much min maxing when it comes to classes, feats, and skills. Many players don't want to deviate from that path simply because they need to keep up with other players at the table for their characters to feel useful. Point buy is just an extension of that.
Elthbert 05-31-04, 11:51 PM	I agree I never liked point buys even in systems designed around it, balanced yes, fun no, I guess if it was a short term character or a hack and slash kind of thing it wouldn't really matter but my Characters are always liveing things and I wouldn't want to turn there creation into an equation. I take what i get and work with it as best I can. Sometimes I have been really lucky other times not so lucky but it always adds character to my Character. But thats just me.
Zelphi 06-01-04, 08:55 AM	1d12 +6... though If I'm aiming for a higher party i'll tell them to role 1d8 +10. It avoids the lower roles of 4d6 - 1d6 and keeps things average... getting 12 with each stat isn't so bad, and if you're the only one around, they have to take you. So really it's in their interest to compensate the weaker character first. Last time I got a low roler - I just multiclassed like crazy to compensate. Point buy can just end up with generic uninteresting characters - roling ends up with real and forced diversity and better play.