Character Option's for a Cleric who does not turn undead. Any Help? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Character Option's for a Cleric who does not turn undead. Any Help? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Daxen
12-06-06, 05:42 PM I am building a character who will be taking levels of cleric, 3 to be exact. He would not turn undead (or any other creature for that matter) , I just don't think it is a power that he would have. I honestly don't want to take it for the divine metamagic persistent thing. However, I would gladly trade the ability entirely for one or more regular metamagic feats, or something similar.

If there is any information on this type of substitution please point me to it. I checked Unearthed Arcana and the Complete Divine and didn't find much. Thanks for reading, any help is greatly appreciated.

Dax
Seerow
12-06-06, 05:44 PM How about instead of Divine Metamagic take one of the other dozen or so divine feats? I mean, there's plenty of them, and they give you access to unique abilities that effectively substitute turning.
Garonak
12-07-06, 09:19 AM Races of Stone.
Racial substitution lvls
Dwarven Cleric lvl 1: Lose Turning, get Smite Giants.
Puca
12-07-06, 09:53 AM Whats the character concept? Would an Archivist or Favored Soul fit as well as a cleric?
Daxen
12-07-06, 04:19 PM The character is starting as a Domain Wizard. His Domain is a homebrew combination of Fate/Destiny/Luck. He feels as though he has been slighted by fate and has decided to fly fully in it's face. Anything he can do to modify random chance or alter the fate of any individual enemy or ally is what he is after. Fatespinner is definitely in his future though much later, if I go with the route I am thinking.

Domain Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Fate Spinner 4

Archivist would work but I thought that it was a 3.0 thing. Archivist loses Domain Access and that would be the true reason for going into Divine Magic as the base cleric list spells don't seem to really apply. Being completely reliant on INT for a spell stat would be really great though. Favoured soul is right out Charisma is a low score for this guy.

There is a Divine Feat that seemed applicable Divine Spell Power with the roll to effect caster level. Have to see if my DM will allow that as the base ability and forego the ability to turn undead at all.
The_Shaman
12-07-06, 07:20 PM IIRC the SRD (Unearthed Arcana, actually, but it's online material now - http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#cleric) offers variants that get smite instead of turning. I guess it's weaker than the base thing, but if you want to... The Dwarven cleric sub levels are also great, btw. Now if you could only get some better BAB, you will show those longleg fools who's the divine champion around :P
Seerow
12-07-06, 07:23 PM Archivist would work but I thought that it was a 3.0 thing. Archivist loses Domain Access and that would be the true reason for going into Divine Magic as the base cleric list spells don't seem to really apply. Being completely reliant on INT for a spell stat would be really great though. Favoured soul is right out Charisma is a low score for this guy.

Nope, it's in heroes of Horror, a 3.5 book. Also, it can learn -any- divine spell, including those from domains, and any Druid, Ranger, or Paladin spells that might fit the theme, and has the additional noted synergy from intelligence.
Deep Blue 9000
12-07-06, 07:23 PM If you're interested in domains, Domain Spontenaity from Complete Divine lets you spend turn attempts to cast domain spells without preparation.
Sleepwalker13666
12-08-06, 04:35 AM Since your character seems to be centered around fate maybe what you do is talk to your Dm about having a some of the following in place of turning

Luck: You gain 1 rerole a day per turn attempt (if this seems too powerful you could remove the bonus attempts and just gain the ones for level)

Aurgery: In place of turn attempts you can cast augery or maybe even commune (if using commune I would say you must pay the exp cost.)

Future Insight: You can use a turing attempt to give you and your party a +1 Insight bonus to Att roles and Ac.

Hope this helps.
DracoPhoenix
12-08-06, 05:52 AM Since your character seems to be centered around fate maybe what you do is talk to your Dm about having a some of the following in place of turning

Luck: You gain 1 rerole a day per turn attempt (if this seems too powerful you could remove the bonus attempts and just gain the ones for level)

Aurgery: In place of turn attempts you can cast augery or maybe even commune (if using commune I would say you must pay the exp cost.)

Future Insight: You can use a turing attempt to give you and your party a +1 Insight bonus to Att roles and Ac.

Hope this helps.

pretty much with this one. though luck could be "tweaked" to be +1 luck bonus to a given roll (before result?)
The_Shaman
12-08-06, 08:57 AM pretty much with this one. though luck could be "tweaked" to be +1 luck bonus to a given roll (before result?)

That's quite poor, imo. You might as well give him a bonus feat and allow luck of heroes from 3.5 Faerun (+1 luck bonus to saves and AC)
Sleepwalker13666
12-08-06, 04:54 PM pretty much with this one. though luck could be "tweaked" to be +1 luck bonus to a given roll (before result?)

Thats also a very viable option, or If that seems to weak maybe up to 1/2 your level not to exceed your charisma modifer since turning scales as you level.
DracoPhoenix
12-08-06, 05:59 PM That's quite poor, imo. You might as well give him a bonus feat and allow luck of heroes from 3.5 Faerun (+1 luck bonus to saves and AC)

Quite possible, I'm afraid I don't know the current "value" of a luck bonus. I didn't want to put forward something that would get rejected outright as being too powerful.

:)
Fabius Maximus
12-08-06, 06:08 PM If you're interested in domains, Domain Spontenaity from Complete Divine lets you spend turn attempts to cast domain spells without preparation.
Actually, you don't need to spend turn attempts with this alternate class feature. You just can't spontaneously cast healing (or inflict) spells anymore.
Daxen
12-08-06, 06:59 PM These are all great ideas thanks. I would love to have the ability be called (something) Fate. The cleric can use (something) Fate to add an insight bonus equal to Wis Mod to any one 1D20 roll. Same number of times per day as Turn Undead.

Too powerful?
alchemyprime
12-08-06, 10:53 PM April of 2006's Dragon had something called an Improved Domain. You give up Turn Undead or one Domain so that you get two associated powers for one domain. I like the Strength Domain's. It lets you add you +4 to one attack with your dieties favored weapon 1/day per two cleric levels. I think. I'm not looking at the magazine right now. It had a cool looking white dragon on the front.
Sleepwalker13666
12-09-06, 05:58 AM These are all great ideas thanks. I would love to have the ability be called (something) Fate. The cleric can use (something) Fate to add an insight bonus equal to Wis Mod to any one 1D20 roll. Same number of times per day as Turn Undead.

Too powerful?

I would Allow it. Though you might want to include a check involed to gain the bonus, such as wisdom check Dc 15.

How about some of these for the names

Test of Fate
Alter Fate
Change Fate
Disrupt Fate
Call Fate
Cheat Fate
Daxen
12-10-06, 12:26 AM Cheat Fate would probab;y be the best name. He would be a cleric of a Philosophy. He reveres the gods though he does not truely worship them. He believes that they too conspire with fate or are atleast it's dupes. With enough inward study and determination he believes that a man can truely become the master of his own fate.
The_Shaman
12-10-06, 05:44 AM Hmm, there may be a problem with that. That must be some determination, to give him lvl 9 spells, if you know what I mean.
Daxen
12-11-06, 05:36 PM Hmm, there may be a problem with that. That must be some determination, to give him lvl 9 spells, if you know what I mean.

I think I know what you mean but he would be more determined to get 9th Wizard Spells. He would eventually (read as Epic) get to a full Divine understanding of his new Philosophy (read as 9th level Divine Spells)

After he takes the fate Spinner levels of which Level 5 would be his first epic level. He would simply continue his studies in both the Arcane and the Divine taking alternating levels of Domain Wizard and Cleric of Metaphysics or whatever the Philosophy ends up being called.
Elemental_Master
12-11-06, 05:44 PM I read an article that had a thing where Cleric lost Turning and gained the Paladin's aura and Smite.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#urbanTrackin g

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Daxen 12-06-06, 05:42 PM	I am building a character who will be taking levels of cleric, 3 to be exact. He would not turn undead (or any other creature for that matter) , I just don't think it is a power that he would have. I honestly don't want to take it for the divine metamagic persistent thing. However, I would gladly trade the ability entirely for one or more regular metamagic feats, or something similar. If there is any information on this type of substitution please point me to it. I checked Unearthed Arcana and the Complete Divine and didn't find much. Thanks for reading, any help is greatly appreciated. Dax
Seerow 12-06-06, 05:44 PM	How about instead of Divine Metamagic take one of the other dozen or so divine feats? I mean, there's plenty of them, and they give you access to unique abilities that effectively substitute turning.
Garonak 12-07-06, 09:19 AM	Races of Stone. Racial substitution lvls Dwarven Cleric lvl 1: Lose Turning, get Smite Giants.
Puca 12-07-06, 09:53 AM	Whats the character concept? Would an Archivist or Favored Soul fit as well as a cleric?
Daxen 12-07-06, 04:19 PM	The character is starting as a Domain Wizard. His Domain is a homebrew combination of Fate/Destiny/Luck. He feels as though he has been slighted by fate and has decided to fly fully in it's face. Anything he can do to modify random chance or alter the fate of any individual enemy or ally is what he is after. Fatespinner is definitely in his future though much later, if I go with the route I am thinking. Domain Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Fate Spinner 4 Archivist would work but I thought that it was a 3.0 thing. Archivist loses Domain Access and that would be the true reason for going into Divine Magic as the base cleric list spells don't seem to really apply. Being completely reliant on INT for a spell stat would be really great though. Favoured soul is right out Charisma is a low score for this guy. There is a Divine Feat that seemed applicable Divine Spell Power with the roll to effect caster level. Have to see if my DM will allow that as the base ability and forego the ability to turn undead at all.
The_Shaman 12-07-06, 07:20 PM	IIRC the SRD (Unearthed Arcana, actually, but it's online material now - http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#cleric) offers variants that get smite instead of turning. I guess it's weaker than the base thing, but if you want to... The Dwarven cleric sub levels are also great, btw. Now if you could only get some better BAB, you will show those longleg fools who's the divine champion around :P
Seerow 12-07-06, 07:23 PM	Archivist would work but I thought that it was a 3.0 thing. Archivist loses Domain Access and that would be the true reason for going into Divine Magic as the base cleric list spells don't seem to really apply. Being completely reliant on INT for a spell stat would be really great though. Favoured soul is right out Charisma is a low score for this guy. Nope, it's in heroes of Horror, a 3.5 book. Also, it can learn -any- divine spell, including those from domains, and any Druid, Ranger, or Paladin spells that might fit the theme, and has the additional noted synergy from intelligence.
Deep Blue 9000 12-07-06, 07:23 PM	If you're interested in domains, Domain Spontenaity from Complete Divine lets you spend turn attempts to cast domain spells without preparation.
Sleepwalker13666 12-08-06, 04:35 AM	Since your character seems to be centered around fate maybe what you do is talk to your Dm about having a some of the following in place of turning Luck: You gain 1 rerole a day per turn attempt (if this seems too powerful you could remove the bonus attempts and just gain the ones for level) Aurgery: In place of turn attempts you can cast augery or maybe even commune (if using commune I would say you must pay the exp cost.) Future Insight: You can use a turing attempt to give you and your party a +1 Insight bonus to Att roles and Ac. Hope this helps.
DracoPhoenix 12-08-06, 05:52 AM	Since your character seems to be centered around fate maybe what you do is talk to your Dm about having a some of the following in place of turning Luck: You gain 1 rerole a day per turn attempt (if this seems too powerful you could remove the bonus attempts and just gain the ones for level) Aurgery: In place of turn attempts you can cast augery or maybe even commune (if using commune I would say you must pay the exp cost.) Future Insight: You can use a turing attempt to give you and your party a +1 Insight bonus to Att roles and Ac. Hope this helps. pretty much with this one. though luck could be "tweaked" to be +1 luck bonus to a given roll (before result?)
The_Shaman 12-08-06, 08:57 AM	pretty much with this one. though luck could be "tweaked" to be +1 luck bonus to a given roll (before result?) That's quite poor, imo. You might as well give him a bonus feat and allow luck of heroes from 3.5 Faerun (+1 luck bonus to saves and AC)
Sleepwalker13666 12-08-06, 04:54 PM	pretty much with this one. though luck could be "tweaked" to be +1 luck bonus to a given roll (before result?) Thats also a very viable option, or If that seems to weak maybe up to 1/2 your level not to exceed your charisma modifer since turning scales as you level.
DracoPhoenix 12-08-06, 05:59 PM	That's quite poor, imo. You might as well give him a bonus feat and allow luck of heroes from 3.5 Faerun (+1 luck bonus to saves and AC) Quite possible, I'm afraid I don't know the current "value" of a luck bonus. I didn't want to put forward something that would get rejected outright as being too powerful. :)
Fabius Maximus 12-08-06, 06:08 PM	If you're interested in domains, Domain Spontenaity from Complete Divine lets you spend turn attempts to cast domain spells without preparation. Actually, you don't need to spend turn attempts with this alternate class feature. You just can't spontaneously cast healing (or inflict) spells anymore.
Daxen 12-08-06, 06:59 PM	These are all great ideas thanks. I would love to have the ability be called (something) Fate. The cleric can use (something) Fate to add an insight bonus equal to Wis Mod to any one 1D20 roll. Same number of times per day as Turn Undead. Too powerful?
alchemyprime 12-08-06, 10:53 PM	April of 2006's Dragon had something called an Improved Domain. You give up Turn Undead or one Domain so that you get two associated powers for one domain. I like the Strength Domain's. It lets you add you +4 to one attack with your dieties favored weapon 1/day per two cleric levels. I think. I'm not looking at the magazine right now. It had a cool looking white dragon on the front.
Sleepwalker13666 12-09-06, 05:58 AM	These are all great ideas thanks. I would love to have the ability be called (something) Fate. The cleric can use (something) Fate to add an insight bonus equal to Wis Mod to any one 1D20 roll. Same number of times per day as Turn Undead. Too powerful? I would Allow it. Though you might want to include a check involed to gain the bonus, such as wisdom check Dc 15. How about some of these for the names Test of Fate Alter Fate Change Fate Disrupt Fate Call Fate Cheat Fate
Daxen 12-10-06, 12:26 AM	Cheat Fate would probab;y be the best name. He would be a cleric of a Philosophy. He reveres the gods though he does not truely worship them. He believes that they too conspire with fate or are atleast it's dupes. With enough inward study and determination he believes that a man can truely become the master of his own fate.
The_Shaman 12-10-06, 05:44 AM	Hmm, there may be a problem with that. That must be some determination, to give him lvl 9 spells, if you know what I mean.
Daxen 12-11-06, 05:36 PM	Hmm, there may be a problem with that. That must be some determination, to give him lvl 9 spells, if you know what I mean. I think I know what you mean but he would be more determined to get 9th Wizard Spells. He would eventually (read as Epic) get to a full Divine understanding of his new Philosophy (read as 9th level Divine Spells) After he takes the fate Spinner levels of which Level 5 would be his first epic level. He would simply continue his studies in both the Arcane and the Divine taking alternating levels of Domain Wizard and Cleric of Metaphysics or whatever the Philosophy ends up being called.
Elemental_Master 12-11-06, 05:44 PM	I read an article that had a thing where Cleric lost Turning and gained the Paladin's aura and Smite. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#urbanTrackin g