Checking Swordsage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Checking Swordsage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ThePope
03-08-07, 12:39 PM so i rolled crazy good stats on my newest character and am going with a swordsage since they got ugly MAD and figured i wouldn't get a chance like this any time soon...

str 14
dex 18+2 (with gloves)
con 16
int 14
wis 16
cha 11

that said, i'll be hitting 9th lvl next session and looking at manuevers... i'll be taking Pouncing Charge and Searing Blade at 9, i'll also get imp TWF. oh and i have +1 weapons and am using the Shadow Blade (feat)... think that covers the details.

so just wanting to make sure i have this right but, if i use both of those manuevers i'll do

MH:2d6+16 +4d6+18(fire)
OH:2d4+16 +4d6+18(fire)

assuming it all hits i have 10d6+68+2d4 total? at 9th lvl... anyone else think that this is a problem? and i can do it every other round on different targets, or every 3 rounds on the same target.

first ToB character for me and for the DM and he's not terribly thrilled that i'm bringing in the book in the first place... just not wanting to spoil it and having him boot the book for being OP.

someone please give me a quality "yea but look at what a wizard is capable of at 9th level" to throw out there when i take down his monster in 1 round :D
Belgian Waffle
03-08-07, 12:49 PM assuming it all hits
This is the Swordsage's biggest problem. Like my swordsage is fun to play and the potential is there for him to be the biggest damage dealer in his party, but he misses way more than he probably should. The -2 penalty from TWF doesn't help either.

I guess if you're not fighting fire-immune critters with low AC, you can do a ton of damage.
WackyOne
03-08-07, 12:54 PM The calculations are fine, but you won't do that much damage easily: you calculated potential damage if all 4 attacks hit (you could also add a fifth attack, as some party memeber could always cast haste on you, for example), but that's not a given, and 2 of those 4 attacks have a -5 to hit.
On low-ac foes, you'll bring fiery animalistic rage - but enemies will have an AC of 23 easily, at those levels: about 50% that your primarly attacks will hit, even with weapon finesse (I strongly suggest to take this)... and 25% for the secondary.
FreAkOuTRG
03-08-07, 01:01 PM Your Strength won't matter at all if you take the feats Weapon finesse, and the feat that adds Dex to Damage instead of Str. Definately take those. Will your DM allow you to relocate the ability points? If you subtract 6 from Str, you can add 2 to Dex, Con or Wis.
WackyOne
03-08-07, 01:05 PM The shadow blade feat actually stacks with strenght - there is an editing error somewhere, as the text and the table disagree on the issue, but until we have an errata, the text stands as the right source.
Of course, it's up to the DM to then decide otherwise (and remember that shadow blade works with only a few weapons and while in a shadow hand stance)
ThePope
03-08-07, 08:32 PM actually the feat doesn't say anything about it replacing str, just says dex applies...

also i have 3 lvls of bloodclaw master so no -2 for me for twf.

and we roll stats, this isn't a point buy so my stats are what they are, we technically 1 point of dex and con are movable, but seems like the way to go personally.

right now i have a +14/+9 and +13/+8 for my bonuses plus 2 for charge... still i agree that's a best case scenario of them all hitting.
bkdubs123
03-10-07, 09:17 PM How can you do this every other round again? Isn't it a full round action to recover your moves? Or did you take that feat that lets you recover faster?
ThePope
03-10-07, 10:31 PM if i switch targets each time then i boost/charge, recharge for a round, then boost/charge a different target.

if i stick wth the same target i boost/charge, probably use a standard action strike and then move away, recharge, and repeat... taking 3 rounds each time.

and yes of course i have Adaptive Style... are there really any swordsages that don't have it? seriously now :P
Belgian Waffle
03-10-07, 11:10 PM They should just errata Swordsage to start with Adaptive Style, it's just stupid to not take it.
Felbarren
03-11-07, 03:42 AM Natural Spell=Druid
Adaptive Style=Swordsage

Some feats...you just have to take em.
Belgian Waffle
03-11-07, 01:40 PM I wouldn't say it's the same.
The Druid takes Wildshape to make himself more powerful.
The Swordsage takes Adaptive Style to make up for a weakness in his class.
nightwyrm
03-11-07, 01:48 PM Does adaptive style allow you to recover your expended manuvers? Doesn't it just allow you to replace the ones you readied?
ThePope
03-11-07, 02:51 PM I wouldn't say it's the same.
The Druid takes Wildshape to make himself more powerful.
The Swordsage takes Adaptive Style to make up for a weakness in his class.

no, its the same. druids take natural spell because any druid who doesn't is either dumb, or is doing it for character reasons. same thing with adaptive style, except there no character reason i can think of that stop a swordsage from taking it.

oh and yes adaptive style refreshes all manuevers... you can rechoose all your readied manuevers... and if you happen to choose the same manuevers that's just fine. and if you don't believe me CustServ has stated that a long time ago.
Iarmeister
03-11-07, 04:25 PM Well, the truth of Adaptive Style is that it's a good feat choice for any character using maneuvers from the 9 Disciplines. It allows you to reset your readied maneuvers and recover your expended maneuvers as a full-round action.

This is useful in prolonged battles and when facing varied opponents who might have resistance to one or more of your readied maneuvers i.e. a martial adept with some maneuvers from Desert Wind suddenly finds themselves facing a creature with Fire Resistance. Adaptive Style allows a character to completely swap out their readied maneuvers for other known maneuvers that will be more effective.

Again, this is a very useful ability for any character utilizing maneuvers from the Sublime Way.

For the Swordsage, however, it's a veritable must-have feat, as their normal recovery mechanic within combat is easily the weakest of the three. In prolonged combat, a Swordsage runs the risk of exhausting their maneuvers entirely and being reduced to an endangered bystander every other round.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ThePope 03-08-07, 12:39 PM	so i rolled crazy good stats on my newest character and am going with a swordsage since they got ugly MAD and figured i wouldn't get a chance like this any time soon... str 14 dex 18+2 (with gloves) con 16 int 14 wis 16 cha 11 that said, i'll be hitting 9th lvl next session and looking at manuevers... i'll be taking Pouncing Charge and Searing Blade at 9, i'll also get imp TWF. oh and i have +1 weapons and am using the Shadow Blade (feat)... think that covers the details. so just wanting to make sure i have this right but, if i use both of those manuevers i'll do MH:2d6+16 +4d6+18(fire) OH:2d4+16 +4d6+18(fire) assuming it all hits i have 10d6+68+2d4 total? at 9th lvl... anyone else think that this is a problem? and i can do it every other round on different targets, or every 3 rounds on the same target. first ToB character for me and for the DM and he's not terribly thrilled that i'm bringing in the book in the first place... just not wanting to spoil it and having him boot the book for being OP. someone please give me a quality "yea but look at what a wizard is capable of at 9th level" to throw out there when i take down his monster in 1 round :D
Belgian Waffle 03-08-07, 12:49 PM	assuming it all hits This is the Swordsage's biggest problem. Like my swordsage is fun to play and the potential is there for him to be the biggest damage dealer in his party, but he misses way more than he probably should. The -2 penalty from TWF doesn't help either. I guess if you're not fighting fire-immune critters with low AC, you can do a ton of damage.
WackyOne 03-08-07, 12:54 PM	The calculations are fine, but you won't do that much damage easily: you calculated potential damage if all 4 attacks hit (you could also add a fifth attack, as some party memeber could always cast haste on you, for example), but that's not a given, and 2 of those 4 attacks have a -5 to hit. On low-ac foes, you'll bring fiery animalistic rage - but enemies will have an AC of 23 easily, at those levels: about 50% that your primarly attacks will hit, even with weapon finesse (I strongly suggest to take this)... and 25% for the secondary.
FreAkOuTRG 03-08-07, 01:01 PM	Your Strength won't matter at all if you take the feats Weapon finesse, and the feat that adds Dex to Damage instead of Str. Definately take those. Will your DM allow you to relocate the ability points? If you subtract 6 from Str, you can add 2 to Dex, Con or Wis.
WackyOne 03-08-07, 01:05 PM	The shadow blade feat actually stacks with strenght - there is an editing error somewhere, as the text and the table disagree on the issue, but until we have an errata, the text stands as the right source. Of course, it's up to the DM to then decide otherwise (and remember that shadow blade works with only a few weapons and while in a shadow hand stance)
ThePope 03-08-07, 08:32 PM	actually the feat doesn't say anything about it replacing str, just says dex applies... also i have 3 lvls of bloodclaw master so no -2 for me for twf. and we roll stats, this isn't a point buy so my stats are what they are, we technically 1 point of dex and con are movable, but seems like the way to go personally. right now i have a +14/+9 and +13/+8 for my bonuses plus 2 for charge... still i agree that's a best case scenario of them all hitting.
bkdubs123 03-10-07, 09:17 PM	How can you do this every other round again? Isn't it a full round action to recover your moves? Or did you take that feat that lets you recover faster?
ThePope 03-10-07, 10:31 PM	if i switch targets each time then i boost/charge, recharge for a round, then boost/charge a different target. if i stick wth the same target i boost/charge, probably use a standard action strike and then move away, recharge, and repeat... taking 3 rounds each time. and yes of course i have Adaptive Style... are there really any swordsages that don't have it? seriously now :P
Belgian Waffle 03-10-07, 11:10 PM	They should just errata Swordsage to start with Adaptive Style, it's just stupid to not take it.
Felbarren 03-11-07, 03:42 AM	Natural Spell=Druid Adaptive Style=Swordsage Some feats...you just have to take em.
Belgian Waffle 03-11-07, 01:40 PM	I wouldn't say it's the same. The Druid takes Wildshape to make himself more powerful. The Swordsage takes Adaptive Style to make up for a weakness in his class.
nightwyrm 03-11-07, 01:48 PM	Does adaptive style allow you to recover your expended manuvers? Doesn't it just allow you to replace the ones you readied?
ThePope 03-11-07, 02:51 PM	I wouldn't say it's the same. The Druid takes Wildshape to make himself more powerful. The Swordsage takes Adaptive Style to make up for a weakness in his class. no, its the same. druids take natural spell because any druid who doesn't is either dumb, or is doing it for character reasons. same thing with adaptive style, except there no character reason i can think of that stop a swordsage from taking it. oh and yes adaptive style refreshes all manuevers... you can rechoose all your readied manuevers... and if you happen to choose the same manuevers that's just fine. and if you don't believe me CustServ has stated that a long time ago.
Iarmeister 03-11-07, 04:25 PM	Well, the truth of Adaptive Style is that it's a good feat choice for any character using maneuvers from the 9 Disciplines. It allows you to reset your readied maneuvers and recover your expended maneuvers as a full-round action. This is useful in prolonged battles and when facing varied opponents who might have resistance to one or more of your readied maneuvers i.e. a martial adept with some maneuvers from Desert Wind suddenly finds themselves facing a creature with Fire Resistance. Adaptive Style allows a character to completely swap out their readied maneuvers for other known maneuvers that will be more effective. Again, this is a very useful ability for any character utilizing maneuvers from the Sublime Way. For the Swordsage, however, it's a veritable must-have feat, as their normal recovery mechanic within combat is easily the weakest of the three. In prolonged combat, a Swordsage runs the risk of exhausting their maneuvers entirely and being reduced to an endangered bystander every other round.