Chrysanthemum blade: PC class loosely based on the aristocrat: balanced too powerful? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Chrysanthemum blade: PC class loosely based on the aristocrat: balanced too powerful? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JulesCARV
08-16-06, 06:27 PM As some of you might be aware, I'm somewhat irked about NPC classes (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=657787&origin=), so I've been trying to figure out how to make the NPC aristocrat -- a fighter/social face hybrid -- a viable PC class. My opinions about NPC classes are distinctly in the minority, but leaving that aside, it seems like there is no real fighter/social face class, even though it's a fairly widespread fantasy character. The paladin doesn't really have enough skill points to manage it. Some hoped that the knight or swashbuckler might do it, but the knight isn't much of a face. The swashbuckler is better as a face, in having decent skill points and most of the right class skills, but still not quite what I'd like (for example, no intimidate). Here's my take, but I'm worried that it may be overpowered. I tried to balance it by simultaneously giving it some powerful class features and deliberately giving it multiple-attribute dependency, but I'm not sure that works.

Chrysanthemum Blade:

"Variegation of skills and studies only leads to weakness and dissolution for one who does not recognize the harmonies among her facets. To someone truly well-rounded and balanced, each discipline complements the other: the stroke of a quill needed for elegant calligraphy reflects upon the stroke of a sword needed for effective combat. The adroit dodge needed to escape a hostile blow reflects upon the persuasive lie needed to escape uncomfortable social circumstances." -- Ayako Sugatani, chrysanthemum blade

The feudal, aristocratic families of the Hokkano Court know that the paranoia and demands of those above them, political schemes by rivals beside them, and the threat of rebellion by those below them demands constant vigilance. To focus on one talent to the exclusion of others would only leave vulnerability which enemies might exploit. As a result, they send their sons and daughters to be given a balanced, broad education, training them in combat, courtly intrigue and diplomacy, and other talents. The graduates of this unique schooling are known as the chrysanthemum blades -- reflecting their training for both imperial courts and battlefields.

Adventures: Chrysanthemum blades can adventure for any reason. Some adventure hoping to build credibility and gravitas that will allow them to be seen as serious contenders in court politics, not mere dillitant heirs of their parents. Others might be exiled from courts, due to shifts in factional power, adventuring to support themselves, acquire wealth and bide their time until they can regain their influence and position. Others adventure for the reasons any adventurer might.

Characteristics: Chrysanthemum blades are always skilled in combat, and most are skilled in social situations as well. In addition, some chrysanthemum blades are trained in psionic powers, learning to manifest a small number of powers, primarily of the psychometabolism and telepathy schools. The main role of the chrysanthemum blade is as a social face and a combatant.

Alignment: Chrysanthemum blades of all alignments are found. Because most chrysanthemum blades learn their abilities in a disciplined, courtly, regimented educational setting from a young age, they have a slight tendency toward lawful alignments, but this is by no means universal: chaotic chrysanthemum blades frequently revel in their sense of freedom, remembering all to well the tyrannical discipline demanded by their instructors. Good chrysanthemum blades often adventure with a sense of noblesse oblige, believing that their position carries with it an obligation to use their resources to help others. Evil chrysanthemum blades frequently have a sense of entitlement and arrogance that leads them to believe -- correctly, all too often -- that they can get away with anything.

Religion: Chrysanthemum blades vary widely in religious belief. Some are fervently pious, while others regard religion as diversion for the lower classes. Many chrysanthemum blades, regardless of their true religious beliefs, join wealthy, influential churches and temples, so as to have easier access to oppurtunities to network and socialize with other wealthy, influential people.

Background: The tradition of the chrysanthemum blade come from an attempt to produce well-rounded, balanced heirs for influential families, and most chrysanthemum blades share a wealthy, aristocratic lineage. Of course, although the tradition originates as an élite educational regime, not all Chrysanthemum Blades come from an aristocratic background. Some commoners who show exceptional promise or talent are trained as protegés of lords, in the expectation that in the future they will serve those lords gratefully as versatile agents. Others have even more unorthodox backgrounds, learning the abilities of the chrysanthemum blades on the battlefield from another chrysanthemum blade, without ever passing through the official educational system, picking up their techniques (in combat and outside) from facing one as an opponent, or even simply coming up with a similar style and priorities on their own.

Races: All races might be Chrysanthemum blades. Humans and half-elves, with their emphasis on versatility, frequently enter this class. Wealthy dwarves, especially Mror Hold families in the Eberron Campaign Setting, often have their children trained as chrysanthemum blades.

Other Classes: Chrysanthemum blades are usually taught to be tolerant and friendly toward others -- at least to their faces -- as is necessary for court politics. They usually get along with other party members. Frequently, they have an affinity for bards, in whom they see commonalities as similarly well-rounded, knowledgeable types. They are often fascinated by rangers, who show a similar mix of combat power, skill, and minor supernatural ability (although it is divine, rather than psionic power that the ranger utilizes), although the chrysanthemum blade is archetypally civilized, whereas the ranger is more oriented toward the wilds.

Role: Chrysanthemum blades typically focus on two primary roles: socialite and warrior. Those who follow the tactical path improve their ability as warriors, whereas those who follow the mental path also manifest some limited psionic abilities, mainly of the psychometabolism and telepathy disciplines.

Game Rule Information:

Chrysanthemum Blades have the following game statistics.

Abilities: Following their emphasis on balance and well-roundedness, chrysanthemum blades need a mix of all abilities, though none of them need to be extraoardinarily high: strength and dexterity for combat, constitution for toughness, intelligence to improve their skills, especially knowledge skills, wisdom to manifest psionic powers, and charisma as party speaker and to receive save benefits. Chrysanthemum Blades with poor wisdom are best off taking the tactical path, forgoing psionic powers in favor of bonus feats and tactical abilities. Chrysanthemum Blades with poor dexterity are best off taking the mental path, manifesting powers at the expense of combat versatility.

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8

Class Skills: The chrysanthemum blade's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (con), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language, Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Survival (Wis), and Use Psionic Device (cha).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4.
[b]Skill points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int Modifier.

Class Features:
All of the following are class features of the chrysanthemum blade.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The chrysanthemum blade is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all armor, and all shields except tower shields.

Path choice: At 4th level, the chrysanthemum blade chooses whether to follow the tactical path or the mental path. Each path has benefits detailed below.

Confident Reaction (Ex): Trained to show self-command, authority, and quick responses in the most stressful situations, chrysanthemum blades with a charisma modifier of at least +1 gain a +1 bonus on all saving throws at 5th level. At 10th level, the bonus improves to +2. At 15th level, it improves to +3. At 20th level, it improves to +4. The bonus can never exceed the chrysanthemum blade's charisma modifier.

Table: The Chrysanthemum Blade
Level Base Attack Bonus Fortitude Save Reflex Save Will Save Special
1 +1 +0 +0 +0
2 +2 +0 +0 +0
3 +3 +1 +1 +1
4 +4 +1 +1 +1 Path choice
5 +5 +1 +1 +1 Confident Reaction +1
6 +6/+1 +2 +2 +2
7 +7/+2 +2 +2 +2
8 +8/+3 +2 +2 +2
9 +9/+4 +3 +3 +3
10 +10/+5 +3 +3 +3 Confident Reaction +2
11 +11/+6/+1 +3 +3 +3
12 +12/+7/+2 +4 +4 +4
13 +13/+8/+3 +4 +4 +4
14 +14/+9/+4 +4 +4 +4
15 +15/+10/+5 +5 +5 +5 Confident Reaction +3
16 +16/+11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +5
17 +17/+12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +5
18 +18/+13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +6
19 +19/+14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +6
20 +20/+15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +6 Confident Reaction +4

Tactical Path: A chrysanthemum blade who chooses the tactical path gains the following benefits:

Expanded Skills: A tactical chrysanthemum blade adds balance, jump, and tumble to her list of class skills.

Tactics: At 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th levels, a tactical chrysanthemum blade chooses a tactic, which can have any of the following benefits, described below:

Fighter Bonus Feat: The chrysanthemum blade gains a fighter bonus feat.

Evasion (ex): If a non-helpless chrysanthemum blade wearing light or no armor successfully saves against an effect that normally deals half damage on a successful reflex save, she takes no damage instead.

Mettle (ex): If a chrysanthemum blade successfully saves against an effect that normally deals half damage on a successful fortitude or will save, she instead takes no damage.

Uncanny Dodge (ex): A chrysanthemum blade can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

Mental Path: A chrysanthemum blade who chooses the mental path gains the following benefits:

Expanded Skills: A mental chrysanthemum blade adds autohypnosis, concentration, and psicraft to his list of class skills.

Powers: A mental chrysanthemum blade becomes a psionic character, and gains the ability to manifest powers with a manifester level equal to half his class level. To manifest a power, a chrysanthemum blade must have a wisdom score equal to 10 + power level. The chrysanthemum blade gains bonus power points according to his wisdom score (keep in mind that bonus power points are determined by manifester level, not class level). The save DC of a chrysanthemum blade's powers is equal to 10 + power level + the chrysanthemum blade's wisdom modifier.

Power Progression:
Level Powers Known Maximum Power Level Power Points
4 1 1 2
5 1 1 3
6 2 2 5
7 2 2 7
8 3 2 10
9 4 2 13
10 4 3 17
11 5 3 21
12 5 3 26
13 6 3 31
14 7 4 37
15 7 4 43
16 8 4 50
17 8 4 57
18 9 5 65
19 10 5 73
20 10 5 82

Power List: A Chrysanthemum blade chooses her powers from the following list:

1st: Attraction, Biofeedback, Call to Mind, Compression, Conceal Thoughts, Detect Psionics, Disable, Elfsight, Empathy, Empty Mind, Expansion, Grip of Iron, Hammer, Missive, Prevenom Weapon, Synesthete, Telempathic Projection, Telempathic Projection, Thicken Skin, Vigor

2nd: Animal Affinity, Bestow Power, Body Adjustment, Body Equilibrium, Body Purification, Demoralize, Detect Hostile Intent, Dissolving Weapon, Ego Whip, Empathic Transfer, Specified Energy Adaptation, Evade Burst, Hustle, Inflict Pain, Mass Missive, Psionic Lion's Charge, Share Pain, Strength of My Enemy, Sustenance, Thought Shield, Psionic Tongues

3rd: Ectoplasmic Form, Empathic Feedback, Hostile Empathic Transfer, Forced Share Pain, Touchsight, Truevenom Weapon, Vampiric Blade

4th: Correspond, Energy Adaptation, Immovability, Psychic Reformation, Psychic Vampire

5th: Catapsi, Leach Field, Metaconcert, Psychofeedback

Starting Gold (average): 6d4 x 10 (150) gp
LordPendragon
08-16-06, 07:03 PM I like it... a lot. Are you sure about the all low saves, though??
JulesCARV
08-16-06, 07:21 PM Well... bear in mind that with a decent charisma score, saves are basically medium (if such a save progression existed), due to the Confident Reaction ability. Not as good as a paladin's saves, due to the cap equal to class levels divided by five, but still better than it looks at first glance.
JulesCARV
08-16-06, 10:13 PM Do you think the all-low saves make it too weak? I considered giving it better saves, but I wasn't sure which saves to give it: it seemed, from the background, like they would consider all saves to be important, to some extent. There's the possibility of giving it all good saves, like a monk or favored soul, but I think that would make it overpowered.
LordPendragon
08-17-06, 01:18 AM All low saves is a fairly substantial disadvantage, and this class is just begging to be multiclassed with Paladin.

Personally, I think you should either remove the psionics or the tactics, or include both to a lesser degree. As it is, the tactics path is underpowered compared to the mental path (simply by virtue of flexibility), and it would be crazy hard to balance the 2. Pick which direction you want the class to take, and then go with it.
AnonymousInternets
08-17-06, 01:43 AM I think it's a little too powerful. With the confident reaction ability, they get saves almost as high as a monk. They get the same attack bonus a fighter would get, are proficient with too much, have class skills they shouldn't have, and overall just combine a bunch of other classes to make one with too much good stuff.

A true aristocrat class would probably be more of a variant on Bard, instead being forced to have a nonchaotic alignment and some skill rearranging (with oratory and persuasive abilities and all knowledges, it pretty much fits). Though that's just my opinion.
JulesCARV
08-17-06, 10:23 PM The only things I was really sure about going into this was that:

1) They should have the aristocrat skill list and weapon/armor proficiencies

2) They should otherwise be better than aristocrats. (well, the will save isn't)

For balance, I suppose my main inspiration was the ranger. Rangers get a selection of combat feats, evasion, hide in plain sight, etc, along with limited divine casting, two good saves, and good skill points. However, the combat feats are all along a rather limited path. The Chrysanthemum blade chooses either a supernatural path which is probably slightly better than ranger spellcasting or a feat path which is probably slightly better than ranger combat style, and more flexible, whereas the ranger gets both.

The chrysanthemum blade has an aristocrat-based skill list, losing some stealth skills and gaining some social skills. I also added Use Psionic Device, but now I'm thinking that was a mistake.

I suppose the main real reason I gave them bad saves + confident reaction rather than just better saves is that I wanted charisma to do something more than boost this class's social skills. I find the idea of a party face with good intelligence but poor charisma, who's maxed out all of the social skills with synergy bonuses and such aesthetically discordant and unappealing, but without something besides skill boosts for charisma to "do," that's how faces often end up working.

Hmmm.... it seems hard to tell about this class, regarding whether it's underpowered or overpowered.

So the tactical path is underpowered against the mental path? I suspected it would be.

I think that one issue is that the chrysanthemum blade is likely to be underpowered in low point-buy games and overpowered in high point-buy games, since I designed it to have a use for every statistic.
JulesCARV
08-19-06, 06:01 PM I suppose the question is: how would you make a sort of "socially skilled fighter" class? I feel like the fact that there are essentially no combat classes that are also socially skilled is a serious problem, since in fantasy clichés, it seems like it's often the well-balanced but meaty warrior type who serves as a leader and negotiator for the party, not the borderline-autistic mage or the sketchy rogue (Roy Greenhilt, Aragorn, Carrot Ironfoundersson etc). Paladins, who can't afford high intelligence, have some of the right skills, but can't really pull it off with their skill points.

My specific implementation may not quite work, but anyone have other ideas?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JulesCARV 08-16-06, 06:27 PM	As some of you might be aware, I'm somewhat irked about NPC classes (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=657787&origin=), so I've been trying to figure out how to make the NPC aristocrat -- a fighter/social face hybrid -- a viable PC class. My opinions about NPC classes are distinctly in the minority, but leaving that aside, it seems like there is no real fighter/social face class, even though it's a fairly widespread fantasy character. The paladin doesn't really have enough skill points to manage it. Some hoped that the knight or swashbuckler might do it, but the knight isn't much of a face. The swashbuckler is better as a face, in having decent skill points and most of the right class skills, but still not quite what I'd like (for example, no intimidate). Here's my take, but I'm worried that it may be overpowered. I tried to balance it by simultaneously giving it some powerful class features and deliberately giving it multiple-attribute dependency, but I'm not sure that works. Chrysanthemum Blade: "Variegation of skills and studies only leads to weakness and dissolution for one who does not recognize the harmonies among her facets. To someone truly well-rounded and balanced, each discipline complements the other: the stroke of a quill needed for elegant calligraphy reflects upon the stroke of a sword needed for effective combat. The adroit dodge needed to escape a hostile blow reflects upon the persuasive lie needed to escape uncomfortable social circumstances." -- Ayako Sugatani, chrysanthemum blade The feudal, aristocratic families of the Hokkano Court know that the paranoia and demands of those above them, political schemes by rivals beside them, and the threat of rebellion by those below them demands constant vigilance. To focus on one talent to the exclusion of others would only leave vulnerability which enemies might exploit. As a result, they send their sons and daughters to be given a balanced, broad education, training them in combat, courtly intrigue and diplomacy, and other talents. The graduates of this unique schooling are known as the chrysanthemum blades -- reflecting their training for both imperial courts and battlefields. Adventures: Chrysanthemum blades can adventure for any reason. Some adventure hoping to build credibility and gravitas that will allow them to be seen as serious contenders in court politics, not mere dillitant heirs of their parents. Others might be exiled from courts, due to shifts in factional power, adventuring to support themselves, acquire wealth and bide their time until they can regain their influence and position. Others adventure for the reasons any adventurer might. Characteristics: Chrysanthemum blades are always skilled in combat, and most are skilled in social situations as well. In addition, some chrysanthemum blades are trained in psionic powers, learning to manifest a small number of powers, primarily of the psychometabolism and telepathy schools. The main role of the chrysanthemum blade is as a social face and a combatant. Alignment: Chrysanthemum blades of all alignments are found. Because most chrysanthemum blades learn their abilities in a disciplined, courtly, regimented educational setting from a young age, they have a slight tendency toward lawful alignments, but this is by no means universal: chaotic chrysanthemum blades frequently revel in their sense of freedom, remembering all to well the tyrannical discipline demanded by their instructors. Good chrysanthemum blades often adventure with a sense of noblesse oblige, believing that their position carries with it an obligation to use their resources to help others. Evil chrysanthemum blades frequently have a sense of entitlement and arrogance that leads them to believe -- correctly, all too often -- that they can get away with anything. Religion: Chrysanthemum blades vary widely in religious belief. Some are fervently pious, while others regard religion as diversion for the lower classes. Many chrysanthemum blades, regardless of their true religious beliefs, join wealthy, influential churches and temples, so as to have easier access to oppurtunities to network and socialize with other wealthy, influential people. Background: The tradition of the chrysanthemum blade come from an attempt to produce well-rounded, balanced heirs for influential families, and most chrysanthemum blades share a wealthy, aristocratic lineage. Of course, although the tradition originates as an élite educational regime, not all Chrysanthemum Blades come from an aristocratic background. Some commoners who show exceptional promise or talent are trained as protegés of lords, in the expectation that in the future they will serve those lords gratefully as versatile agents. Others have even more unorthodox backgrounds, learning the abilities of the chrysanthemum blades on the battlefield from another chrysanthemum blade, without ever passing through the official educational system, picking up their techniques (in combat and outside) from facing one as an opponent, or even simply coming up with a similar style and priorities on their own. Races: All races might be Chrysanthemum blades. Humans and half-elves, with their emphasis on versatility, frequently enter this class. Wealthy dwarves, especially Mror Hold families in the Eberron Campaign Setting, often have their children trained as chrysanthemum blades. Other Classes: Chrysanthemum blades are usually taught to be tolerant and friendly toward others -- at least to their faces -- as is necessary for court politics. They usually get along with other party members. Frequently, they have an affinity for bards, in whom they see commonalities as similarly well-rounded, knowledgeable types. They are often fascinated by rangers, who show a similar mix of combat power, skill, and minor supernatural ability (although it is divine, rather than psionic power that the ranger utilizes), although the chrysanthemum blade is archetypally civilized, whereas the ranger is more oriented toward the wilds. Role: Chrysanthemum blades typically focus on two primary roles: socialite and warrior. Those who follow the tactical path improve their ability as warriors, whereas those who follow the mental path also manifest some limited psionic abilities, mainly of the psychometabolism and telepathy disciplines. Game Rule Information: Chrysanthemum Blades have the following game statistics. Abilities: Following their emphasis on balance and well-roundedness, chrysanthemum blades need a mix of all abilities, though none of them need to be extraoardinarily high: strength and dexterity for combat, constitution for toughness, intelligence to improve their skills, especially knowledge skills, wisdom to manifest psionic powers, and charisma as party speaker and to receive save benefits. Chrysanthemum Blades with poor wisdom are best off taking the tactical path, forgoing psionic powers in favor of bonus feats and tactical abilities. Chrysanthemum Blades with poor dexterity are best off taking the mental path, manifesting powers at the expense of combat versatility. Alignment: Any Hit Die: d8 Class Skills: The chrysanthemum blade's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (con), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language, Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Survival (Wis), and Use Psionic Device (cha). Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4. [b]Skill points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int Modifier. Class Features: All of the following are class features of the chrysanthemum blade. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The chrysanthemum blade is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all armor, and all shields except tower shields. Path choice: At 4th level, the chrysanthemum blade chooses whether to follow the tactical path or the mental path. Each path has benefits detailed below. Confident Reaction (Ex): Trained to show self-command, authority, and quick responses in the most stressful situations, chrysanthemum blades with a charisma modifier of at least +1 gain a +1 bonus on all saving throws at 5th level. At 10th level, the bonus improves to +2. At 15th level, it improves to +3. At 20th level, it improves to +4. The bonus can never exceed the chrysanthemum blade's charisma modifier. Table: The Chrysanthemum Blade Level Base Attack Bonus Fortitude Save Reflex Save Will Save Special 1 +1 +0 +0 +0 2 +2 +0 +0 +0 3 +3 +1 +1 +1 4 +4 +1 +1 +1 Path choice 5 +5 +1 +1 +1 Confident Reaction +1 6 +6/+1 +2 +2 +2 7 +7/+2 +2 +2 +2 8 +8/+3 +2 +2 +2 9 +9/+4 +3 +3 +3 10 +10/+5 +3 +3 +3 Confident Reaction +2 11 +11/+6/+1 +3 +3 +3 12 +12/+7/+2 +4 +4 +4 13 +13/+8/+3 +4 +4 +4 14 +14/+9/+4 +4 +4 +4 15 +15/+10/+5 +5 +5 +5 Confident Reaction +3 16 +16/+11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +5 17 +17/+12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +5 18 +18/+13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +6 19 +19/+14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +6 20 +20/+15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +6 Confident Reaction +4 Tactical Path: A chrysanthemum blade who chooses the tactical path gains the following benefits: Expanded Skills: A tactical chrysanthemum blade adds balance, jump, and tumble to her list of class skills. Tactics: At 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th levels, a tactical chrysanthemum blade chooses a tactic, which can have any of the following benefits, described below: Fighter Bonus Feat: The chrysanthemum blade gains a fighter bonus feat. Evasion (ex): If a non-helpless chrysanthemum blade wearing light or no armor successfully saves against an effect that normally deals half damage on a successful reflex save, she takes no damage instead. Mettle (ex): If a chrysanthemum blade successfully saves against an effect that normally deals half damage on a successful fortitude or will save, she instead takes no damage. Uncanny Dodge (ex): A chrysanthemum blade can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. Mental Path: A chrysanthemum blade who chooses the mental path gains the following benefits: Expanded Skills: A mental chrysanthemum blade adds autohypnosis, concentration, and psicraft to his list of class skills. Powers: A mental chrysanthemum blade becomes a psionic character, and gains the ability to manifest powers with a manifester level equal to half his class level. To manifest a power, a chrysanthemum blade must have a wisdom score equal to 10 + power level. The chrysanthemum blade gains bonus power points according to his wisdom score (keep in mind that bonus power points are determined by manifester level, not class level). The save DC of a chrysanthemum blade's powers is equal to 10 + power level + the chrysanthemum blade's wisdom modifier. Power Progression: Level Powers Known Maximum Power Level Power Points 4 1 1 2 5 1 1 3 6 2 2 5 7 2 2 7 8 3 2 10 9 4 2 13 10 4 3 17 11 5 3 21 12 5 3 26 13 6 3 31 14 7 4 37 15 7 4 43 16 8 4 50 17 8 4 57 18 9 5 65 19 10 5 73 20 10 5 82 Power List: A Chrysanthemum blade chooses her powers from the following list: 1st: Attraction, Biofeedback, Call to Mind, Compression, Conceal Thoughts, Detect Psionics, Disable, Elfsight, Empathy, Empty Mind, Expansion, Grip of Iron, Hammer, Missive, Prevenom Weapon, Synesthete, Telempathic Projection, Telempathic Projection, Thicken Skin, Vigor 2nd: Animal Affinity, Bestow Power, Body Adjustment, Body Equilibrium, Body Purification, Demoralize, Detect Hostile Intent, Dissolving Weapon, Ego Whip, Empathic Transfer, Specified Energy Adaptation, Evade Burst, Hustle, Inflict Pain, Mass Missive, Psionic Lion's Charge, Share Pain, Strength of My Enemy, Sustenance, Thought Shield, Psionic Tongues 3rd: Ectoplasmic Form, Empathic Feedback, Hostile Empathic Transfer, Forced Share Pain, Touchsight, Truevenom Weapon, Vampiric Blade 4th: Correspond, Energy Adaptation, Immovability, Psychic Reformation, Psychic Vampire 5th: Catapsi, Leach Field, Metaconcert, Psychofeedback Starting Gold (average): 6d4 x 10 (150) gp
LordPendragon 08-16-06, 07:03 PM	I like it... a lot. Are you sure about the all low saves, though??
JulesCARV 08-16-06, 07:21 PM	Well... bear in mind that with a decent charisma score, saves are basically medium (if such a save progression existed), due to the Confident Reaction ability. Not as good as a paladin's saves, due to the cap equal to class levels divided by five, but still better than it looks at first glance.
JulesCARV 08-16-06, 10:13 PM	Do you think the all-low saves make it too weak? I considered giving it better saves, but I wasn't sure which saves to give it: it seemed, from the background, like they would consider all saves to be important, to some extent. There's the possibility of giving it all good saves, like a monk or favored soul, but I think that would make it overpowered.
LordPendragon 08-17-06, 01:18 AM	All low saves is a fairly substantial disadvantage, and this class is just begging to be multiclassed with Paladin. Personally, I think you should either remove the psionics or the tactics, or include both to a lesser degree. As it is, the tactics path is underpowered compared to the mental path (simply by virtue of flexibility), and it would be crazy hard to balance the 2. Pick which direction you want the class to take, and then go with it.
AnonymousInternets 08-17-06, 01:43 AM	I think it's a little too powerful. With the confident reaction ability, they get saves almost as high as a monk. They get the same attack bonus a fighter would get, are proficient with too much, have class skills they shouldn't have, and overall just combine a bunch of other classes to make one with too much good stuff. A true aristocrat class would probably be more of a variant on Bard, instead being forced to have a nonchaotic alignment and some skill rearranging (with oratory and persuasive abilities and all knowledges, it pretty much fits). Though that's just my opinion.
JulesCARV 08-17-06, 10:23 PM	The only things I was really sure about going into this was that: 1) They should have the aristocrat skill list and weapon/armor proficiencies 2) They should otherwise be better than aristocrats. (well, the will save isn't) For balance, I suppose my main inspiration was the ranger. Rangers get a selection of combat feats, evasion, hide in plain sight, etc, along with limited divine casting, two good saves, and good skill points. However, the combat feats are all along a rather limited path. The Chrysanthemum blade chooses either a supernatural path which is probably slightly better than ranger spellcasting or a feat path which is probably slightly better than ranger combat style, and more flexible, whereas the ranger gets both. The chrysanthemum blade has an aristocrat-based skill list, losing some stealth skills and gaining some social skills. I also added Use Psionic Device, but now I'm thinking that was a mistake. I suppose the main real reason I gave them bad saves + confident reaction rather than just better saves is that I wanted charisma to do something more than boost this class's social skills. I find the idea of a party face with good intelligence but poor charisma, who's maxed out all of the social skills with synergy bonuses and such aesthetically discordant and unappealing, but without something besides skill boosts for charisma to "do," that's how faces often end up working. Hmmm.... it seems hard to tell about this class, regarding whether it's underpowered or overpowered. So the tactical path is underpowered against the mental path? I suspected it would be. I think that one issue is that the chrysanthemum blade is likely to be underpowered in low point-buy games and overpowered in high point-buy games, since I designed it to have a use for every statistic.
JulesCARV 08-19-06, 06:01 PM	I suppose the question is: how would you make a sort of "socially skilled fighter" class? I feel like the fact that there are essentially no combat classes that are also socially skilled is a serious problem, since in fantasy clichés, it seems like it's often the well-balanced but meaty warrior type who serves as a leader and negotiator for the party, not the borderline-autistic mage or the sketchy rogue (Roy Greenhilt, Aragorn, Carrot Ironfoundersson etc). Paladins, who can't afford high intelligence, have some of the right skills, but can't really pull it off with their skill points. My specific implementation may not quite work, but anyone have other ideas?