Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JulesCARV 02-15-07, 12:14 AM	One thing I feel is missing as a class archetype in D&D is a skilled, charismatic warrior who is equally at home trying to uncover an assassination attempt at a courtly ball and fighting in a chaotic battlefield. Basically, what's missing is spomething like a ranger (full base attack bonus, high skill points) with an emphasis on skills like diplomacy, sense motive, gather information, and bluff, rather than skills like hide, move silently, survival, and use rope. Basically, what I want is an NPC aristocrat, but buffed up to PC levels. I proposed something called the chrysanthemum blade earlier, but many people felt that it was somewhat overpowered and that the mental path (minor psionics) was overpowered compared to the tactical path (fighter-type bonus feats). Furthermore, let's face it: class names ending with "blade" are trite and tiresome at this point, with warblades, hexblades, duskblades, bladesingers, etc. As such, I felt disappointed with myself for coming up with such a clichéd class name. I've subsequently taken away a few things like starting heavy armor proficiency, reduced the power of the psionics a bit, and changed the name from "chrysanthemum blade" to "chrysanthemum guard." So, without further adieu: Chrysanthemum Guard: "Variegation of skills and studies only leads to weakness and dissolution to one who does not recognize the harmonies among her facets. To someone truly well-rounded and balanced, each discipline complements the other: the stroke of a quill needed for elegant calligraphy reflects upon the stroke of a sword needed for effective combat. The adroit dodge needed to escape a hostile blow reflects upon the persuasive lie needed to escape unfortunate social circumstances." -- Ayako Sugatani, chrysanthemum guard The feudal, aristocratic families of the Hokkano Court know that the paranoia and demands of those above them, political schemes by rivals beside them, and the threat of rebellion by those below them demands constant vigilance. To focus on one talent to the exclusion of others would only leave vulnerability which enemies might exploit. As a result, they send their sons and daughters to be given a balanced, broad education, training them in combat, courtly intrigue and diplomacy, and other talents. The graduates of this unique schooling are known as the chrysanthemum guards -- reflecting their training for both imperial courts and battlefields. Adventures: Chrysanthemum guards can adventure for any reason. Some adventure hoping to build credibility and gravitas that will allow them to be seen as serious contenders in court politics, not mere dillitant heirs of their parents. Others might be exiled from courts, due to shifts in factional power, adventuring to support themselves, acquire wealth and bide their time until they can regain their influence in position. Others adventure for any reason. Characteristics: Chrysanthemum guards are always skilled in combat, and most are skilled in social situations as well. In addition, some chrysanthemum guards are trained in psionic powers, learning to manifest a small number of powers, primarily of the psychometabolism and telepathy schools. The main role of the chrysanthemum guard is as a social face and a combatant. Alignment: Chrysanthemum guards of all alignments are found. Because most chrysanthemum guards learn their abilities in a disciplined, courtly, regimented educational setting from a young age, they have a slight tendency toward lawful alignments, but this is by no means universal: chaotic chrysanthemum guards frequently revel in their sense of freedom, remembering all to well the tyrannical discipline demanded by their instructors. Good chrysanthemum guards often adventure with a sense of noblesse oblige, believing that their position carries with it an obligation to use their resources to help others. Evil chrysanthemum guards frequently have a sense of entitlement and arrogance that leads them to believe -- correctly, all too often -- that they can get away with anything. Religion: Chrysanthemum guards vary widely in religious belief. Some are fervently pious, while others regard religion as diversion for the lower classes. Many chrysanthemum guards, regardless of their true religious beliefs, join wealthy, influential churches and temples, so as to have easier access to oppurtunities to network and socialize with other wealthy, influential people. Background: The tradition of the chrysanthemum guard come from an attempt to produce well-rounded, balanced heirs for influential families, and most chrysanthemum guards share a wealthy, aristocratic lineage. Of course, although the tradition originates as an élite educational regime, not all Chrysanthemum Guards come from an aristocratic background. Some commoners who show exceptional promise or talent are trained as protegés of lords, in the expectation that in the future they will serve those lords gratefully as versatile agents. Others have even more unorthodox backgrounds, learning the abilities of the chrysanthemum guards on the battlefield from another chrysanthemum guard, without ever passing through the official educational system, picking up their techniques (in combat and outside) from facing one as an opponent, or even simply coming up with a similar style and priorities on their own. Races: All races might be Chrysanthemum guards. Humans and half-elves, with their emphasis on versatility, frequently enter this class. Wealthy dwarves, especially Mror Hold families in the Eberron Campaign Setting, often have their children trained as chrysanthemum guards. Other Classes: Chrysanthemum guards are usually taught to be tolerant and friendly toward others -- at least to their faces -- as is necessary for court politics. They usually get along with other party members. Frequently, they have an affinity for bards, in whom they see commonalities as similarly well-rounded, knowledgeable types. They are often fascinated by rangers, who show a similar mix of combat power, skill, and minor supernatural ability (although it is divine, rather than psionic power that the ranger utilizes), although the chrysanthemum guard is archetypally civilized, whereas the ranger is more oriented toward the wilds. Role: Chrysanthemum guards typically focus on two primary roles: socialite and warrior. Those who follow the tactical path improve their ability as warriors, whereas those who follow the mental path also manifest some limited psionic abilities. Game Rule Information: Chrysanthemum Guards have the following game statistics. Abilities: Following their emphasis on balance and well-roundedness, chrysanthemum guards need a mix of all abilies: strength and dexterity for combat, constitution for toughness, intelligence to improve their skills (especially knowledge) and gain bonus power points, wisdom to manifest psionic powers, and charisma as party speaker and to receive save benefits. Chrysanthemum Guards with poor wisdom are best off taking the tactical path, forgoing psionic powers in favor of bonus feats and tactical abilities. Alignment: Any Hit Die: d8 Class Skills: The chrysanthemum guard's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language, Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Survival (Wis), and Use Psionic Device (cha). Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int Modifier. Class Features: All of the following are class features of the chrysanthemum guard. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The chrysanthemum guard is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor, and all shields except tower shields. Confident Reaction (Ex): Trained to show self-command, authority, and quick responses in the most stressful situations, chrysanthemum guards with a charisma modifier of at least +1 gain a +1 bonus on all saving throws at 1st level. At 5th level, the bonus improves to +2. At 10th level, it improves to +3. At 15th level, it improves to +4. At 20th level, it improves to +5. The bonus can never exceed the chrysanthemum guard's charisma modifier. If the chrysanthemum guard has some other feature that adds charisma to saves, including but not limited to a blackguard's dark blessing, a hexblade's arcane resistance, a paladin's divine grace, or the warlock invocation "Dark One's Own Luck," these bonuses overlap rather than stacking: use whichever is better and is applicable at the time. Path choice: At 4th level, the chrysanthemum guard chooses whether to follow the tactical path or the mental path. Each path has benefits detailed below. Table: The Chrysanthemum Guard Level Base Attack Bonus Fortitude Save Reflex Save Will Save Special 1 +1 +0 +0 +0 Confident Reaction +1 2 +2 +0 +0 +0 3 +3 +1 +1 +1 4 +4 +1 +1 +1 Path choice 5 +5 +1 +1 +1 Confident Reaction +2 6 +6/+1 +2 +2 +2 7 +7/+2 +2 +2 +2 8 +8/+3 +2 +2 +2 9 +9/+4 +3 +3 +3 10 +10/+5 +3 +3 +3 Confident Reaction +3 11 +11/+6/+1 +3 +3 +3 12 +12/+7/+2 +4 +4 +4 13 +13/+8/+3 +4 +4 +4 14 +14/+9/+4 +4 +4 +4 15 +15/+10/+5 +5 +5 +5 Confident Reaction +4 16 +16/+11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +5 17 +17/+12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +5 18 +18/+13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +6 19 +19/+14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +6 20 +20/+15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +6 Confident Reaction +5 Tactical Path: A chrysanthemum guard who chooses the tactical path gains the following benefits: Expanded Skills and Proficiencies: A tactical chrysanthemum guard adds balance, jump, and tumble to her list of class skills, and gains proficiency with heavy armor and tower shields. Tactics: At 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, and 19th levels, a tactical chrysanthemum guard chooses a tactic, which can have any of the following benefits: Fighter Bonus Feat: The chrysanthemum guard gains a fighter bonus feat. Defensive Tactics (ex): A chrysanthemum guard wearing light or no armor may add her intelligence modifier as a dodge bonus to AC, to a maximum of her class level / 2. Evasion (ex): If a non-helpless chrysanthemum guard wearing light or no armor successfully saves against an effect that normally deals half damage on a successful reflex save, she takes no damage instead. Insightful Strike (ex): A chrysanthemum guard wielding a weapon to which Weapon Finesse may be applied and wearing light or no armor may apply her intelligence modifier to damage rolls in addition to her strength modifier against targets subject to critical hits, regardless of whether or not the chrysanthemum guard actually has the weapon finesse feat. Mettle (ex): If a chrysanthemum guard successfully saves against an effect that normally deals half damage on a successful fortitude or will save, she instead takes no damage. Uncanny Dodge (ex): A chrysanthemum guard can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. Mental Path: A chrysanthemum guard who chooses the mental path gains the following benefits: Expanded Skills: A mental chrysanthemum guard adds autohypnosis, concentration, and psicraft to his list of class skills. Powers: A mental chrysanthemum guard becomes a psionic character, and gains the ability to manifest powers with a manifester level equal to half his class level. To manifest a power, a chrysanthemum guard must have a wisdom score equal to 10 + power level. The chrysanthemum guard gains bonus power points according to his intelligence score (keep in mind that bonus power points are determined by manifester level, not class level). The save DC of a chrysanthemum guard's powers is equal to 10 + power level + the chrysanthemum guard's wisdom modifier. Power Progression: Level Powers Known Maximum Power Level Power Points 4 1 1 0 5 1 1 1 6 2 1 2 7 2 1 4 8 3 2 6 9 4 2 9 10 4 2 12 11 5 2 16 12 5 3 20 13 6 3 25 14 7 3 30 15 7 3 36 16 8 4 42 17 8 4 49 18 9 4 56 19 10 4 64 20 10 4 72 Power List: A Chrysanthemum guard chooses her powers from the following list: 1st: Attraction, Biofeedback, Call to Mind, Compression, Conceal Thoughts, Detect Psionics, Disable, Elfsight, Empathy, Empty Mind, Expansion, Grip of Iron, Hammer, Missive, Prevenom Weapon, Synesthete, Telempathic Projection, Thicken Skin, Vigor 2nd: Animal Affinity, Bestow Power, Body Adjustment, Body Equilibrium, Body Purification, Demoralize, Detect Hostile Intent, Dissolving Weapon, Ego Whip, Empathic Transfer, Specified Energy Adaptation, Evade Burst, Hustle, Inflict Pain, Mass Missive, Psionic Lion's Charge, Share Pain, Strength of My Enemy, Sustenance, Thought Shield, Psionic Tongues 3rd: Ectoplasmic Form, Empathic Feedback, Hostile Empathic Transfer, Forced Share Pain, Touchsight, Truevenom Weapon, Vampiric Guard 4th: Correspond, Energy Adaptation, Immovability, Psychic Reformation, Psychic Vampire Starting Gold: 6d4 x 10 (150)
JulesCARV 02-15-07, 09:00 PM	I'm thinking of getting rid of listen and/or spot. They're rather powerful skills, and there's no real thematic reason for chrysanthemum guards to have both (or either, necessarily), other than the fact that aristocrats have both, and I basically created the chrysanthemum guard with the concept of "aristocrat, but better."
enygmatic_me 02-15-07, 09:53 PM	Don't get rid of listen or spot. They are useful, but not powerful or game breaking. I like the idea of the class. It doesn't seem overly powerful and definitely seems to fit a role that hasn't already been filled. My only real problem, and it is a minor one, is that the two paths are so drastically different from each other. I don't have any of the psionic books in front of me right now, so that is most likely the problem here, but I don't see what a character on the mental path gains over just playing a PsyWar. If the answer is "not much" then something needs to be done to make it an appealing option to the PsyWar or a mechanically different approach (while maintaining the theme) should be contemplated.
periscope 02-15-07, 11:15 PM	im not a good judge of balance but I do like the flavor of the "Civilized" warrior. Good job.:D
JulesCARV 02-15-07, 11:40 PM	Basic differences: Psychic warrior: -Stronger manifester -More general combat powers, especially outside psychometabolism. -Bonus feats -Less MAD. Good fortitude saves. -More power points -More powers known "Mental path" Chrysanthemum guard -More skill points -More skills, especially social skills -Full BAB -Confident reaction feature -More telepathy powers However, I previously gave "mental path" chrysanthemum blades (my previous name for the class) more manifesting, with powers of up to 5th level. Some believed that this was too powerful, so I decided to scale it back to 4th level and add a bit of intelligence-dependency (intelligence --> bonus power points) to scale it back. It's possible that I went too far in nerfing the psionic aspect. Mental Path: A chrysanthemum guard who chooses the mental path gains the following benefits: Expanded Skills: A mental chrysanthemum guard adds autohypnosis, concentration, and psicraft to his list of class skills. Powers: A mental chrysanthemum guard becomes a psionic character, and gains the ability to manifest powers with a manifester level equal to half his class level. To manifest a power, a chrysanthemum guard must have a wisdom score equal to 10 + power level. The chrysanthemum guard gains bonus power points according to his wisdom score (keep in mind that bonus power points are determined by manifester level, not class level). The save DC of a chrysanthemum guard's powers is equal to 10 + power level + the chrysanthemum guard's wisdom modifier. Power Progression: Level Powers Known Maximum Power Level Power Points 4 1 1 2 5 1 1 3 6 2 2 5 7 2 2 7 8 3 2 10 9 4 2 13 10 4 3 17 11 5 3 21 12 5 3 26 13 6 3 31 14 7 4 37 15 7 4 43 16 8 4 50 17 8 4 57 18 9 5 65 19 10 5 73 20 10 5 82 Power List: A Chrysanthemum guard chooses her powers from the following list: 1st: Attraction, Biofeedback, Call to Mind, Compression, Conceal Thoughts, Detect Psionics, Disable, Elfsight, Empathy, Empty Mind, Expansion, Grip of Iron, Hammer, Missive, Prevenom Weapon, Synesthete, Telempathic Projection, Telempathic Projection, Thicken Skin, Vigor 2nd: Animal Affinity, Bestow Power, Body Adjustment, Body Equilibrium, Body Purification, Demoralize, Detect Hostile Intent, Dissolving Weapon, Ego Whip, Empathic Transfer, Specified Energy Adaptation, Evade Burst, Hustle, Inflict Pain, Mass Missive, Psionic Lion's Charge, Share Pain, Strength of My Enemy, Sustenance, Thought Shield, Psionic Tongues 3rd: Ectoplasmic Form, Empathic Feedback, Hostile Empathic Transfer, Forced Share Pain, Touchsight, Truevenom Weapon, Vampiric Guard 4th: Correspond, Energy Adaptation, Immovability, Psychic Reformation, Psychic Vampire 5th: Catapsi, Leach Field, Metaconcert, Psychofeedback
Ventifax 02-16-07, 02:33 AM	I think the Oriental Adventures samurai was in a "civilized warrior" vein. Of course, it didn't have a psionic variant (which seems almost like a different class, but fine). I guess you could use a Swashbuckler for that, too (but Listen/Spot would be cross-class). The most educated martial class I'm familiar with is the marshal, of course, but they only have 3/4 BAB. Anyway, neat idea. Now put it on a website of your own so you can copyright it!
towerwrath 02-16-07, 08:50 AM	My only thought is that you might look into the weapon style feats from cw cause a lot of nobles seam to adhere to certain styles of fighting or sware by certain weapons. On the whole this looks pretty good. Good job.
JulesCARV 02-16-07, 05:51 PM	I thought that the original chrysanthemum blade had been lost, but apparently it's still up: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=687468
aotrscommander 02-16-07, 06:40 PM	Right. I hope this ill be helpful to you; sadly most of this critism is a bit negative, sorry! Okay, my first thought was no Good saves? Ouch! If they are going to have Mettle (potentially), should they have a better fort or Will save? The Charisma-based save bonuses are all very well, but you are almost forced to have a high Charisma in order to be able to make any saves ever. Realistically, no class with such heavy MAD is going to be able to afford to pump Cha high enough to make the most out of those save bonuses and be able to function passably in combat. I think they've got just too much MAD. You'd be struggling to make a character that was remotely effective of 25 point buy. I'd probably switch the psi-powers over to Wis or Int (or maybe tie Cha is somewhere). I think the other problems as they stand are two-fold. First, until 4th level, they don't do anything. You've got a Full BAB combatant in medium armour and average HD with some social skills, but not much else. I think you're still very much in the NPC power class here. At 1st to 3rd level, its arguable whether you're better than the Warrior, let alone the Fighter! Basically, until you get Powers you have two choices; talk to it (at which you're no better than say a Rogue and much worse than a Bard) or hit it (at which you're no better than a Warrior). The two paths are still woefully unbalanced. I don't think so much dropping the psi powers is going to help; you really need to make the tactical path not suck as much; at the moment all you get is being able to wear heavy armour (woo); which is negated by three of the other class features (Evasion, Insightful Strike and Defensive Tactics). Plus, you have to be10th level before you get all those abilities. 10 Powers verses 6 class features/feats is not a fair trade off; the only porblem is, it's going to be pushing it to be able to get enough to get your 14 in Wis, as you need to pump your other stats. Okay, so, to sum up, what do I think you need to do to bring this up to PC-power level? 1) Add more Class abilities, especially at the lower levels. If you want it be be a 'face' class, you should give it some more umph in that department, otherwise it's not better a 'face' than a Rogue, and it's already a worse Fighter than the Fighter. (We dont tend to Diplomatise much in our group, so I'm at a loss as to what to suggest, unfortunatly; maybe you should trawl your favorite PrCs and swipe the abilities therein; I've done that before!) 2) Drop the heavy armour proficiency from the Tactical path; it's not worth having. Either that or add some abilities which do apply while wearing it. You need to seriosuly pad out the tactical side; I suggest as an absolute minimum at least 10 feats/features (then at least you have numerical equality!) 3) Give it at least one Good save; Reflex or Will, I'd say (probably the latter). Consider ditching Confident Reaction for better saves; all it does at the moment is force you to invest in Charisma as much as a pure Cha caster to gain saves that will be be one worse than any character with a Good save at level 20. 4)Try and reduce the MAD. Either switch the Psi Powers to a single stat (I'm tempted to say Cha actually), or at least change the two requirements to have at least one of them be Cha. As it stands, in order to be able to function, you can't have any 'dump' stats. While that's a noble goal, it also restricts you from doing anything worthwhile. I'm not even sure how I'd attempt to do a mentle path on a 25 point buy; it's have to be something like: Str 12, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 14 ...dumping stat points into Wis so you can cast 4th level powers at level 16 (you can just about get enough Wis to be able to start manifesting each new power level at 4th, 8th 12th and 16th). You really need the Cha, as with all Poor saves, you'll be getting hammered as soon as the save-or-elses come in as you're vulnerable to all of them. Sorry that was not as helpful as I'd like, but hopefully I've given you some food for thought!
periscope 02-16-07, 09:11 PM	what about change the paths a little bit. how about they choose at level 1. The tactics (i suggest renaming it techniques) grant TOB maneuvers from the white raven, iron heart, and diamond mind schools. have it grants some of the tactical feats and regular feats relating to them specifically the unnatural calm one. the psionic one wont give actual psionics till you get to the appropriate level (I believe you have it at level 4). It will run off cha for both bonus points and saves. however in between 1-4 level give it 4 abilities. 1st) It will gain the hidden talent feat (or wild talent feat whichever you prefer) and the psionic weapon feat, even if they do not need the prerequisites. 2nd) an ability that allows them to add their cha mod to their damage rolls with a weapon so long as they keep their psionic focus (maybe make a multiclassing penalty that gets rid of this should you multiclass to keep away the dippers). 3rd) grant them the speed of thought and either the up the walls feat or the psionic charge feat even if they do not meet the prerequisites. 4th) grant the the greater psionic weapon feat, even if they dont meet the prerequisites. Fix the saves (i think good reflex myself for the grace of the nobility deal). thats all I can contribute, hope it helps.