Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jaerad 04-17-05, 12:34 AM	I have never tried to make a class before, so if this all works out like crap, you can tell me. For those w/o Races of Stone, Deepwarden can be found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=4 While clanwardens guard dwarf cities and clanholds as a last line of defense, deepwardens serve as a living early warning system against threats from both the environment and other creatures. Taking this into account, I'm looking to design a class around the Clanwarden instead of the Deepwarden. This means I'll drop out the wilderness, animal messenger, and track abilities. I will, however, keep Stone Warden, Stubborn Mind, and the Uncanny Dodge progression. Well, here I go. Flava: Clanwardens are the last line of defense, they guard the deep caverns of Dwarven cities and clanholds. Dwarven cities usually expanded and evolved from the original mining camps; they face immeditate threats not from the outside - but rather from what lurks deep underground. Rather than some elite City Guard, clanwardens also serve as scouts; searching for new mineral veins, warning of danger from deep civilizations, and serving as a first line of offense against the threats they encounter. Clanwardens are very familiar with dungeons and deep underground caverns of all kinds, ranging from underground lakes to caverns of liquid magma. A clanwarden spends much of her time away from other dwarves and deep under the dwarven communities she protects. Many clanwardens eventually leave the rigorous lifestyle of defense and perseverance to pursue dreams of adventuring, and to venture deeper underground in search of the unknown. Dwarven lore is full of tales of clanwardens; destroying vast underground communities of evil, negotiating peace with law abiding inhabitants, and countless tales of clanwardens presumed dead due to the length of time missing underground. Clanwardens are mostly male, but many females join their ranks as well. Hit Die: 1d12 Requirements To qualify to become a clanwarden, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Race: Dwarf. Base Attack Bonus: +5. Skills: Climb 5 ranks, Heal 5 ranks, Jump 5 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 5 ranks, Survival 5 ranks. Feat: Endurance. [Same as Deepwarden] Skills include: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Speak Language (n/a), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex). [Same as Deepwarden -Handle Animal, not sure what others don't fit or what needs to be added] Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the clanwarden. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Clanwardens are proficient with all types of simple and martial weapons, all types of armor, and shields (including tower shields). Trap Sense (Ex): A clanwarden has an intuitive sense that alerts her to danger from traps, giving her a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses increase by 1 at every three clanwarden levels thereafter (4th, 7th, and 10th). Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack. Stone Warden (Ex): Beginning at 2nd level, a clanwarden knows how to use her strengths to compensate for her weaknesses. She adds her Constitution bonus to AC instead of her Dexterity, if the character's Constitution bonus is higher. The clanwarden loses this bonus to her Armor Class whenever she would normally be denied her Dexterity bonus to AC. In such a situation, the clanwarden would still be considered flat-footed. Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a clanwarden gains the ability to react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus (if any, or her Constitution bonus, if it's higher) to AC even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity (or Constitution) bonus to AC if immobilized. If a character gains uncanny dodge from a different class (a clanwarden with at least four levels of rogue, for example), she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead. Stubborn Mind (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a clanwarden has a mental resistance to outside influences. If a clanwarden with the stubborn mind ability is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. She gets only this one extra chance to succeed on her saving throw. This ability also works against a mind flayer's mind blast attack. Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 8th level and higher, a clanwarden can no longer be flanked; she can react to opponents on opposite sides of her as easily as she can react to a single attacker. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the clanwarden by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has clanwarden levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from a different class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level a rogue must be to flank the character. [Same as Deepwarden -Track, Animal Messenger, Sending, Swift Tracker, and Greater Animal Messenger] Don't know how to make tables - if someone can copy the table from the above link and edit out the stuff that doesn't fit, I'd really appreciate it. Ok, obviously I need some help here. Any other skills needed? What should be added to balance the removal of the outdoor abilities? What kinda stuff fits into an underground spec. character? Bonuses to certain monsters? Elementals? Undercommon language profiency? I have some idea of the design, I just don't really know the specifics. I basically just wanted a revamp of Deepwarden w/o the Track/Animal Messenger stuff. I noticed that I was just taking it as a dip class, instead of something that fits my concept. Note, the character will also be taking some Dwarven Defender. Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.
Nuntius128 04-17-05, 02:16 AM	Well, first, if I may assist, what is it that you wish to do differently than the Deepwarden? That, I believe, is the first step in variant rules. Also, what is it about Deepwarden that you want to remove/replace?
jaerad 04-17-05, 02:37 AM	Well, first, if I may assist, what is it that you wish to do differently than the Deepwarden? That, I believe, is the first step in variant rules. Also, what is it about Deepwarden that you want to remove/replace? Well, I have no real use for the Animal Messenger stuff. Tracking also isn't very important to me. Deepwarden is fine as a PrC, it's truly fantastic. I just think there should be a flip-side PrC that's all about being underground instead of in the wilderness. Better stonecutting? More darkvision? Racial enemy bonuses to [insert deep underground baddie here]? I don't know what's balanced, what would actually be useful, what is ub3r. I don't have a lot of experiance. I mostly just wanted a change of flavor Deepwarden.
Nuntius128 04-17-05, 03:04 AM	Well, I have no real use for the Animal Messenger stuff. Tracking also isn't very important to me. Deepwarden is fine as a PrC, it's truly fantastic. I just think there should be a flip-side PrC that's all about being underground instead of in the wilderness. Better stonecutting? More darkvision? Racial enemy bonuses to [insert deep underground baddie here]? I don't know what's balanced, what would actually be useful, what is ub3r. I don't have a lot of experiance. I mostly just wanted a change of flavor Deepwarden. Ah, ok. Just checking. That will help with any advice. Thanks! :D Now, that said, Deepwarden was originally designed with the Ranger class in mind. Why they added Track as a 1st level ability, is really beyond me. My advice for that would be to allow a bonus feat, but one with a very small costing of prerequisites. As a 1st level ability, it probably shouldn't do too much. My first thought might be Skill Focus, or Improved Initiative. For Animal Messenger replacement, yeah, I'm not especially crazy about that either. Something to replace that... a little tough. I might increase Darkvision by something, probably 30 feet. Or even Blindsight? Maybe even both, Blindisght of... 20 feet replacing Greater Animal Messenger.
jaerad 04-17-05, 04:11 AM	Are blindsight & darkvision all that useful? I suppose they'll obviously be more useful than something I never use, but what I mean is are they worthwhile? Or are you giving low abilities because you also consider AM a waste? Maybe something that ties in more with a more focused underground training. Or maybe give them Endurance for free, since that kinda fits with the surviving alone for long periods of time. I dunno. Just trying to come up with something. I really have no clue as to underground advantages. Even though I don't have much character interest in them, I can think of tons of wilderness abilities.
jaerad 04-17-05, 02:08 PM	Hmm. Still not sure what to change. As I thought about it this morning, I started to think that sending and animal messenger would still be useful for a character who's delving deep underneath the city. Track probably has it's uses underground as well. Bah. I thought there'd be more interest in this idea, and people would come from all over with cool suggestions for abilities that are more underground/dungeoneering specifc. I thought there'd be more people who wanted to go more of a Fighter route than Ranger w/ Deepwarden.