Post/Author/DateTime	Post
thorr_kan 04-17-07, 11:20 PM	We're working a low-magic campaign right now. Would you consider the Eberron version of the Adept (Domain power, Domain Spells part of the spell list) balanced versus a Bard?
Jaxgaret 04-17-07, 11:28 PM	We're working a low-magic campaign right now. Would you consider the Eberron version of the Adept (Domain power, Domain Spells part of the spell list) balanced versus a Bard? If that's the only thing they get over a DMG Adept, then no, not at all. Bards get better BAB, better saves, better spellcasting, better armor proficiencies and light armor casting, better weapon selection, much better skills, plus Bardic Music & Knowledge. It's not even close.
OneWinged4ngel 04-18-07, 12:04 AM	We're working a low-magic campaign right now. Would you consider the Eberron version of the Adept (Domain power, Domain Spells part of the spell list) balanced versus a Bard? Absolutely not. Adept doesn't stand a chance. The level 8 adept isn't giving the party +10/+10 from Inspire Courage, nor does he have many free ranks in every knowledge ability, a Bard's Fascinate, nor the bard's skills, nor... well, lots of things. The adept pretty much sucks. All the NPC classes do. The bard doesn't really suck... he might not be the Wizard, Cleric, or Druid, but he's rather underrated.
cthascott 04-18-07, 05:26 PM	I've found the Bard to be a well balanced class albeit on the weak side of the spectrum. But he is very underrated and extremely useful. Peace. CthaS
Oni_Archon 04-19-07, 04:34 AM	bard for the win in this situation. Cus i mean do i have to requote everyone? if you are going low magic, cut out the bard all together because his powers are like spells...and when you aint got spells but he can still sing or what have you....he pwns you.
Shadowfax7 04-19-07, 08:23 PM	The level 8 adept isn't giving the party +10/+10 from Inspire Courage Are you exaggerating because the best I have been able to get an 8th level Bard's Inspire Courage up to is no where near +10/+10. I would like to know how this cane be done ?
OneWinged4ngel 04-19-07, 08:28 PM	Are you exaggerating this one because the best I have been able to get an 8th level Bard's Inspire Courage up to is no where near +10/+10. I would like to know how this cane be done ? Not at all, though it can either be a bit higher or lower depending on the DM's ruling on a certain feat. Well, for one, it depends a bit on the DM's interpretations on Words of Creation. With one interpretation, getting a Inspire Courage as high as +14 or so isn't hard at all. If the DM uses a more sane interpretation (double the base) then you're looking at getting +1 Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting), +4 base (words of creation doubles the +2, and is in Book of Exalted Deeds), +1 Inspirational Boost (Spell Compendium), +1 Masterwork Instrument (Complete Adventurer), +1 Badge of Valor (Magic Item Compendium), and +1 from Harmony (though that's intended to be replaced by Song of the Heart, so most sane DMs won't let you stack that last one). Then, you can get Vest of Legends to pretend you're a higher level bard, though that doesn't matter at level 8. If you can use 3.0 stuff, there's Crescendo to stack that higher over a few turns (not sure if that ever got into 3.5) There ya go. Inspire Courage optimization 101. Anyways, assuming the more restrictive DM and just 2 feats (Song of the Heart and Words of Creation), 1 rather inexpensive item (masterwork instrument), Badge of Valor (1400g), and one swift action 1st level spell (Inspirational Boost), that's giving you +1,+1,+1,+1,+4 for a total of +8. With a less sane DM, you can double *everything,* and throw in Harmony. Anyways, bards have gotten a lot of goodies from splatbooks, and with that they've risen above their stigma of suckitude. Go ask on the CharOp boards. The idea that bards are weak faded away there a good while ago ^^ On the other hand, newbies never seem to take bards seriously... sometimes even when they see a well-played one in action. Some people just can't get the idea that if the bard isn't the actual person swinging the sword to kill the monster, he's not very good. On the other hand, there are builds for just that. Go check out a bardadin, or a Crusader/Bard. Get Song of the White Raven, Slippers of Battledancing, buff up your inspire courage, get those nifty cha abilities, Snowflake Wardance, Devoted Performer, Dragonfire Inspiration TWFer... all sorts of good stuff out there. Even if you go pure core, the Bard can still do a lot of pretty nifty things, one of the most notable being their FASCINATE ability, which can have *ridiculous* save DCs, since the save DC is based on your perform check. Ends fights before they even start. You basically get a few options for Bards to specialize in. Pretty much every bard will own social situations, but besides that, you've got the melee bard (stack up those cha abilities and songs and roll out with huge melee damage, while making everyone else in your party awesome at the same time), the singing bard (get the bardic music focusing prestige classes and the like to stack up some powerful song buffs or debuffs), the spellcaster bard (get Sublime Chord), who can be an amazing buffer (Sublime Chord/Recaster/War Weaver, anyone?), or the Roguish Bard, who does all those roguely things. You've also got UMD, and can totally pretend you're a sweet caster as long as you've got the scrolls and wands. They may not be the best on the block, but they don't suck. The Fighter sucks. The Bard doesn't. Get it right ;)
Shadowfax7 04-21-07, 08:14 AM	OneWinged4ngel . . . can you add Battledancer and Snowflake Wardance to those bonuses ?