Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Poodle 09-05-06, 02:04 AM	Hi I am going to be playing a vampire and I was wondering if any one could recommend a class I am kinda going for the whole kain thing so something like a dark paladin
The_One_True_Boris 09-05-06, 02:17 AM	Battle Sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana)/ Lifedrinker (Book of Vile Darkness)
Ugglee 09-05-06, 02:24 AM	5 Paladin/10 Black Guard/ Rest Ur-priest
Poodle 09-05-06, 04:57 AM	Thanks any more?? What is an Ur-priest? And as I should have mentioned I don’t want to worship a deity
The_Shaman 09-05-06, 06:20 AM	Ur-priest (Complete Divine and, iirc, BoVD) is a character that "drains" power from the gods with obscure rituals instead of asking for it. One could use the variant paladin classes from UA as well (Paladins of Tyranny, Freedom or Slaughter), these are base classes. Dragon also had a few variant "paladins", but these are only for the 6 non-evil alignments. Technically, such a vampire could use the knight class as well, but I really hate some of its abilities. Would your character start good, or begin as a vampire?
Poodle 09-05-06, 07:29 AM	It will start as a evil vamp I don’t want to use the paladin class at all and I am not sure the battle sorcerer is tankish enough I am hoping there is another paladin like class because the dark paladin seems to suit what I am going for the best
CaoSlayer 09-05-06, 08:18 AM	Anything with good bab it is a good thing, cause you will get more attacks to use your level draining attack.
Tower_of_Pain 09-05-06, 08:46 AM	Unearthed Arcana, Paladin of Slaughter, if CE, or Paladin of Tyranny, if LE.
CaoSlayer 09-05-06, 09:53 AM	As a second through I would go duskblade... yes, your spellcasting will be lower that the usual but one of the main disadvantages it is a d6 for hp but since you are a vampire, you will get d12 for hp, good bab and midly good spellcasting. Also the name of the class fits nicely with a vampire
K 09-05-06, 10:29 AM	What rules for being a Vampire are you using? The ones in the Monster Manual are unusable. 8 levels for zero caster levels, zero BAB, and zero hit dice means that you can't take a punch and you can't provide a level-appropriate attack at the same time. Further, the basic rules provide no provision at all for you getting staked or otherwise killed by any opponent you'll ever face (except a Cleric of Pelor who will automatically kill you without even rolling dice). Expect huge rules arguments and a whole lot of time feeling incredibly inadequate. That's... unfortunate. But there is hope! The Tome of Necromancy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=632562) has a Vampire option that is playable with any class (though it is naturally enough better suited to spellcasters if you wantto take the Vampire Paragon class). So really what class you should play depends entirely upon what you want to play, and what Vampire rules you are using. The ones out of the Monster Manual are not playable, so you shouldn't use them for any class.
Izodor_Shadowcaster 09-05-06, 10:31 AM	Soulborn (Magic of incarnum) might be your class.
Maraxus 09-05-06, 11:17 AM	K: I think the CR asumes, that you use your Dominate Person ability to find about 5 weak-willed slaves all about your power. Together, you have about the fighting power required to be useful for the level. I think it is this on ability (and, to a minor point, your ability to create spawns that you mind-control too) that is meant to explain the huge diffrence between LA and 2*CR, as it is usual. However, I totally agree, that I don't like it that way, too. The choise of class is a good question. It also depends on the style, you want to play your vampire. It's no straightforward race. On the one hand, you have improved strength, silver-damage-reduction and an energy-draining attack. On the second hand, you have god support-powers and increased casting attributes. Yes, a gish like the battle sorcerer could be useful for you to be able to use all your potentian. Your great charisma will allow you to efficiently use blindness and hold person even on higher levels. Defencive spells will increase your chance to survive (hey, "false life" best describes what you are ;)) Something sneaky might be a good choise, too. With gasrous form, alternate form (bat) and +8racial bonus to hide, you make a good spy. Ranger or rogue, I would prefer the full BAB over the sneak attack damage.
Ellone 09-05-06, 12:00 PM	LA for vampire is not unplayable, but it's design to account for all the ability a vampire get and the usefullness of these ability inside a group. So, as a vampire as a lot of powerfull ability not strictly oriented toward combat, you won't be the most efficient 1st line tank in a group of equal ECL characters. That's is, you need to pay for these abilities. The character will need to use her other ability, including outside combat, to keep in line with her ecl. Vampire have numerous and potent ability, including fast healing, unability to die, gazous form at will, potent energy drain (without save), blood drain, increased abilitie score, an efficient dr, incredible skill racial bonus (accounting for the LA), a lot of bonus feat, usefull natural armor, and there's some more. a +8 LA is really not surprising. Note than this LA is only really usefull if you are playing with more standard character. Now the first question was about the class. my mind would be a rogish type character, with +8LA you can't consider fighting in front line and you already have some magical abilities, let's now concentrate on way to escape being identified as a threat (d12 is obiously better than d4, but not d4+4)
Ugglee 09-05-06, 01:01 PM	It will start as a evil vamp I don’t want to use the paladin class at all and I am not sure the battle sorcerer is tankish enough I am hoping there is another paladin like class because the dark paladin seems to suit what I am going for the best You still have to be atleast a fourth level character in a class to become a vampire otherwise your just a spawnor am i refering to 3.0 i don't remeber. Also there are some good prestige classes for undead in Libris Mortis.
TheWyrmDude 09-05-06, 02:16 PM	Joke Answer: Drunken Master. Gives the Drink Like a Demon ability a whole new meaning.
PhaedrusXY 09-05-06, 02:19 PM	Three levels of Hexblade would be very good for a Vampire. I'd throw in four levels of evil palladin myself, as well. 2x Cha to saves and Mettle will make you alot more survivable. Get a Ring of Evasion, too.
Echo_that_Pains 09-05-06, 02:31 PM	I am going to agree with The_One_True_Boris. Lifedrinker from BoVD would be a very fun/interesting class to play! As someone else said though, Libris Mortis Master Vampire (iirc) would also be a good idea.
K 09-05-06, 03:34 PM	I am going to agree with The_One_True_Boris. Lifedrinker from BoVD would be a very fun/interesting class to play! As someone else said though, Libris Mortis Master Vampire (iirc) would also be a good idea. You're kidding right? Lifedrinker is thematically appropriate for a Vampire to have, but it doesn't do anything that is level appropriate or playable. As written, yu have to be an ECL 13 character to take any levels of the class, which means that you finally get your lifewell at character level 14. So then, instead of casting prismatic spray or having the Skill Mastery required to disable a forcecage with a standard action automatically... you'd be able to grant yourself 1d6 of temporary hit points. Right... you'd be a fourteenth level character with a Bse Attack Bonus of at most 5, and then you'd be able to gain 3 hit points every time you won a Grapple. Good luck with that. The flavor of the Lifedrinker is really cool, but the mechanics just aren't there. When you factor the LA of the Vampire (8) and he level minimum of the Vampire (5) - you can't even finish that class before Epic. And the later abilities of the class are even more out of place than the early ones. Empower your spells for "free"? What spells!? You only have 5 class levels and you need to win grapples or punch people to get any points in your lifewell, you can't cast any spells. At 20th levell you'll gain the ability to drain Constitution really fast, if you win grapples. And your BAB is at best only +10, you can't win grapples. Plus, you're a 20th level character, 3 points of Con Drain isn't something you'd wipe yourself with. The Rogue has been attacking 3 times with both of his Boot Blades of Wounding for some time... Even if you were playing with a +0 LA Vampire template like the one from Tome of Necromancy, the Lifedrinker wouldn't be good. Class levels that don't give spellcasting and do give metamagics are a sucker's game. You could just take levels of spellcaster classes and use the higher level spell slots you got to power your metamagic.
Poodle 09-05-06, 05:17 PM	lol this is just in a fun campaign for a few setting while the real one gets going there is no la in this one were just trying out wired powerful things we in ordinary circumstances would not really be able to do easily I am sorry I should of mentioned this sorry ): So with no la life drinker and battle sorcerer is a valid option it just I am not sure there tankish enough
Poodle 09-05-06, 05:24 PM	One of the Unearthed Arcana paladins and the life drinker and black guard class dose sound cool any other ideas vamp is LE btw
Maraxus 09-05-06, 05:39 PM	Ellone, I can't really see what you mean? What abilities of the vampire are so useful for the group? As far as I see it, he primarry has a lot of drawbacks, that are much worse for the group of adventurers, then they are for a single monster. Let's test the Vampire vs. a Half-Fiend, I guess, with LA 8 vs 4, the result should be overwhelming clear, but is is? (I'm rating diffrent points of the templates, -4 means a point, where the vampire clearly wins, +4 would be something vor the Half-Fiend, equal power would be +0, these points are no LAs, round about +1 LA per 2 points, but that's hard to say that easily, because LA does not grow lineary) Type: Okay, a heavy point to begin with. Both are no humanoids, what is not bad. Undead have a ton of immunities: mind-affects, poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death, critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, energy drain, physical ability score dmamage, fatigue and exhaustion. However ... they have no constitution!!! The value of this point depends on weather the dm allows something to have an undead at another abilitiy to hit-points per level. ... I don't. Half fiends are native outsiders (normally, like in the case of Half -Fiend human etc.), so they can be resurected etc. Undead can't and on top of this, they even lack the 10 points you can go below 1 without being dead. Points: -1 The drawbacks and advantages of undead almost even out, in the end, the immunities are a bit better. Speed: I'm not yet counting the Vampires problem with running water. Here it's just a +2 for bad wings. Armor: +6 vs +1 is clear. That's -2 points again. Attacks: A slam attack or claw/claw/bite? Obviously claws and bites are 2 attacks better. +1 Special Attacks: This is a number of seperate abilities. Blood Drain of the Vampire: Only a very minor ability, maybe not even -1, since you totally suck in grapples, that you will have no chance to suck in the grapple. Energy Drain: Definatly depends on weather you have additional natural weapons. 1 slam attack the turn (only if you don't want a 2 handed weapon, and only as a secondary attack with any weapon, as far as I read it) is not really much chance to drain. However, 2 negative levels are totally awsome, of cause. Smite good: Not really much, too. A single attack per day makes no ability. Children of the night: The Army usually not comes before the end of the fight, so you have to use it, before the fight breaks out. But then again, that is a really good choise, Bats or lot of wolves... However, many opponents on that level won't care much about either. Dominate: That's the main problem. Theoretically, you could dominate a whole army. If you only dominated 2 hours the day and every victim would need two attempts, that means 360 victims the day, or an army of 12 times that much ... 4320 dominated beings. Create Spawn: Twice your hit dies it said. You know, where your hit dies are. You can't really control much with that. Still on the higher levels, this will make a nice slave, you don't have to redominate every 12 days. Sum: -10, mainly for dominate person and energy drain. Spell-like abilities: Some of the Half Fiend's spell-likes are extreamly mighty. Okay, Blasphemy is totally weak with your hit-dies as caster level, but poison, horrid wilting, Destruction! All together, it's around +4 Special Qualities: Alternate Form, Fast Healing 5, Gaseous Form, Spider Climb stands for the vampire. Fast Healing is a major edge, alternate form is nice, too. The other 2 are less useful. -5 The Half-Fiend has Darkvision and Poison Imunity listed, slightly reducing the advances of the undead-type. a weak +1 At the resistences, the 1/2-Fiend has 2 "10"s more, a good +1 Damage reduction: Both have it, but the vampires is overcome by silver only, what is much better: -2 Spell resistence: ...is great. Even with LA, that's still ~25% of all harm from spells prevended. +2, and only if the dm does not allow +Spell resistence items (like I do). Abilities: About equall. +0 Skills: Who cares about skills? Bluff < Glibness, Hide < Invisibility, Listen < Detect Thoughts, Move Silently < Silence, Search < Locate Object, Sense Motive < Detect Thoughts, and Spot < Arcane Eye. Well, skills are also nice, but overall, not so great: -1 Feats: The vampire has a lot of weaker feats: -1 Vampire evacuation mode: Really nice, but it does not help the task. So the Vampire likes it, the party not. -3 Vampire Weaknesses: Repelled by: Garlic (minor point) Repelled by: Mirors or holy symbols: Heavy. You think, it's cool, your opponents have no save vs. your energy drain? They think it's cool, you have no save vs. this weakness, too. (+2) Unable to cross running water: Not a big problem. (+1 together with the garlic) Can not enter a building without invitation: No save. And I don't know how offen you enter houses uninvited in your games, in mine, it's very often. You are totally owned in Sunlight! 2 rounds. And you are dead! No resurection (without loosing the template), no last second heal-spell. (+5) -7 Damn, I had hoped to come closer to 0. Looks like the vampire is in fact worth something with all that abilities. ... But still, what do you do with all this. I htink, you are most likely to simply spam your gaze-attack in combat. However, before combat, have the Wizard cast Invisibility and the Cleric cast Silence on you and sneak on the enemy and slam him 2 levels away. At that point, your pack of wolves should appear and you order your dominated humans and your spawns to do the rest of the combat for you. ... And as soon as the opponent is low enough, make him an offer he won't be able to refuse. ;)
a_m0ogle 09-05-06, 06:37 PM	Get rid of control spawn and dominate, change the level adjustment to +2, and all is shiny. Though it shouldn't be something pc's are just able to choose, it would be tricky like this. The vampiric weaknesses can be very crippling, therefore need large abilities to offset, but in a game that the weaknesses are not so crippling, the level adjustment needs to be higher or abilities lower. The dm could do a case by case thing, such as for fighter the level adjustment is +3, and for stealing type rogue it is +1 (The abilities are great for a fighter, yet crippling for a steally rogue to not be able to enter private buildings) Control spawn enables the pc to control infinite creatures, and infinite dominate per day is just stupid.
The_Shaman 09-05-06, 08:53 PM	I believe there was a vampire scion in the "Fang and Fury" supplement (dealing particularly with vamps) that was more geared towards the standard D&D game. Sending goons to do something isn't exactly the PC way ;)
Maraxus 09-05-06, 11:04 PM	Moogle: I think without those 2 it would be LA +4 but no less. It also makes sense, as LA+ is usually double the CR+ (since you get a lot of mony with it, the monster would not get). But these 2 abilities must be calculated individually, because the CR of a Vampire-encounter rises, should he have dominated hirelings and spawns with him. Maybe a really strong LA +3 - but he is definitly stronger then the half dragon: Immune vs almost everything, Fast healing 5, energy drain.
Poodle 09-06-06, 02:10 AM	Anyway any more idears for a kain like vamp class
The_Shaman 09-06-06, 03:39 AM	Well, if you're going to , the BoVD has a few options. IMO, the Disciple of Dispater fits the Dark knight idea quite well, as does the Dark Warrior (which, incidently, benefits from the vampire's charisma). Alternatively, you could adapt the Thrall of Orcus to better fit undead - the lichloved prerequisite may be dropped for such cases. Still, with your charisma, the blackguard or another class that translates it into bonuses to your defensive or offensive powers (dark blessing, smite, etc), is among your best choices.
Poodle 09-06-06, 03:53 AM	Cool although I would rather not be a disciple of a god or other creature but yea I was hoping to make it a dark paladin type class. Although I was hoping to get to use arcane magic but it dose not look like the battle sorcerer life drinker class gives enough armour and damage with weapons.
The_Shaman 09-06-06, 07:15 AM	Oh, don't worry, it's not a god... Not quite, so to say ;) The main option if you want to be an arcanist and be able to hit anything smaller than a barn is duskblade, or another "gish" version. A fighter/necromancer/eldritch knight may also add some nice flavor.
PhaedrusXY 09-06-06, 10:55 AM	Ok, so no level adjustment? Holy crap, play a caster! You get a free upgrade of your d4 hit dice to d12, and don't lose any caster levels! Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9740146) are a couple of NPC vampire psionicists that I submitted to the Encounter Resource thread that you might use for a start.
Poodle 09-06-06, 06:02 PM	fighter/necromancer/eldritch knight sounds cool could I replace the fighter with the le paladin thing from Unearthed Arcana just for the whole dark paladin thing or would that screw it up ?
Poodle 09-07-06, 03:59 AM	fighter/necromancer/life drinker ? paladin/necromancer/life drinker ? would this work as well ?
Poodle 09-07-06, 04:53 PM	So is there any big disadvantage to replacing eldritch knight with life drinker ?
SheerAscended 09-07-06, 07:40 PM	Maybe you should try a cleric/blackguard or maybe an eldritch knight.
Maraxus 09-07-06, 10:32 PM	I think Paladin of Tyranny/Necromancer/Eldrich Knight would make a great character - roleplaywise. But it would also probably be on the really low end of the power-scale. (Not saying it would be weaker then .../lifedrinker. I don't know this one) As I've wrote, should you really want to play the vampie straight out of the Monster-Manual, then take something with good charisma, like the battle sorcerer. You have paided for that "Domination at will", you have payed so unbelievable heaviely, you are meant to use it. Get the ability focus feat, if you are at it.
Ugglee 09-08-06, 01:03 AM	The life drinker [book of vile darkness pg. 62] only really helps if you choose a spell casting class (sorcerer) before taking the class other wise most of its PrC abilities are lost.
Poodle 09-08-06, 01:37 AM	I like the idea of a battle sorcerer/life drinker but would it be anymore powerful then the whole Paladin of Tyranny/Necromancer/Eldrich Knight.i am trying to make the most powerful vampire character I possibly can and still keep a cool feels about it (like I am sure we all try to do with our characters :) )
Poodle 09-08-06, 02:32 AM	As for the cleric thing I don’t want to worship any deity or creature so I can’t really lol any way I don’t like clerics
Question2 09-08-06, 03:17 AM	Vampire template is broken. Any race or template, that when taken, basically condemns the player to a one hit KO at the ECL the party is at.......is broken. There can be no arguements about this. It is as clear as spring water. Fast healing is pointless if you cant even survive one hit for it to kick in. Dominate/control spawn is only abusable if your DM allows it, and they are only really useful in a intrigue style campaign......your adverage adventuring campaign where you have to travel around a lot, hide during the day, so on and so forth........its just not going to help much. Player : "Bah screw the dungeon raid! Im going to stay in this city and use dominate to secure me a position of influence and power, slowly taking it over!" DM : "Fine, the church sends a elite strike team of undead hunters after you. Load save game?" There is also a grand rule......any LA with a spellcasting class is a STRICTLY BAD IDEA. Below epic levels you lose spell levels, more spells known, more spells per day, caster level, so on and so forth. Any LA above epic levels and you lose incredibly important caster level and epic level caster feats. With a LA of 8 a vampire wizard loses 4 entire spell levels. A ECL 13 vampire wizard's best contribution to party damage is a normal fireball. A ECL 13 vampire sorcerer cant even do that.
Poodle 09-08-06, 04:01 AM	I see... That may be true I am not sure as I have not tried vamp yet but a la of above 1 is almost always bad any way in d&d However it dose not apply to my situation since I do not have the la and my dm has changed the weakness of the vampire slightly
Question2 09-08-06, 07:19 AM	So you are playing a LA-less vampire?
Poodle 09-08-06, 08:31 AM	lol yea it is just for a temp campaign for a few sessions so the dm is letting us get away with no la. As long as its no something like a solar or a pit fiend lol
storm1402 09-08-06, 10:57 AM	Honestly I have found givin the vampires abilities the best classes are either rogue or ninja. The work with the dex and have better abilities to use when in light armor which wont cause friction with the vampire, plus u get the vampires HD increase and u would have sneak attack :D
Question2 09-08-06, 11:11 AM	It doesnt matter WHAT class you use, you will still die in one hit. For most campaigns, that means you are useless, unless the DM does not throw anything remotely near your ECL at you.....like maybe level 5 warriors at your ECL 13 vampire PC.......then it would work. If your DM is going to run nothing but a intrigue style campaign with no combats remotely near your power level, then dominate person and the other abilities will be useful, but unfornately thats not what most DMs run.
Maraxus 09-08-06, 05:09 PM	No, you can't say that, the Vampire damage reduction and natural armor helps a lot. So, ECL 13 - yes, I think, this is a fair level. 5d12 means you have 38hp. I think Mithral Breastplate +3 is nice for this level, with +4 Dex, you should be able to fill that max dex. AC is round about 35., touch ~18 Let's check the monster of that level: Beholder: Charm Monster? Charm Person? Fear? Finger of death? Flesh to stone? Inflict moderate wounds? Yes, Immune to all this... but wait: Desintegrate? ZOMG! I'm owned!!! Run, Fly, get away!!!! As I said, this one specific spell is something, the vampire should directly ward against, if this is not available, 1 or 2 rounds and you are dead. Unicorn Celestial Charger: This is a good fight for the vampire. With the ability to turn into a dire bat and the spider climb ability, the vampire should be able to get out of reach of most attacks. One suprising charge attack (1d8+10-10) with smite evil (+15) does not kill it, even if it hits (What only has a ~50/50 anyway). However, if also a searing light hit's afterwards (most likely), then the vampire is likely to turn gaserous (7d6 - 25 plus the ~20-5 from the last round.). - However, between those, you have another action, probably turning gaserous and taking cover for 1 turn. Another option for the Unicorn would be to turn the vampire, however, it will not kill te vampire. Definitly the Celestial charger has the edge, but the vampire is far from useless. Ghaele: Again, no single attack completly kills the Vampire, through the searing light comes close. The chain lightling also deals serious damage, and combined with light rays, it can kill the vampire in about 4 rounds even if the searing light would miss (unlikely). Again, the vampire would need to hit and run, to carry of the opponents limited resources of damage dealing (The light rays alown would need about 6 rounds, which is more then enough time for the vampire). Glabretsu: Cake walk. He can not seriously harm the vampire (unless he is lawful or good (*g*) and get's repeadently chaos-hammered). In melee, the demon has 2 pincers +20 melee (2d8+10) and 2 claws +18 melee (1d6+5) and bite +18 melee (1d8+5). Against the damage reduction only the pincers deal serious damage and considering the AC, only one hits for 2d8+0 damage. Reducing this by 5 points fast healing, the vampire could survive about 12 rounds - more then enough time to do that solo! Storm Giant: Call lightning does no serious damage thanke to E-resistence 10, chain lightning does a bit more, but still no much more then 1/2 the hit points. A full bow attack (+14/+9/+4 ranged (3d6+14/×3)) is likely to not hit at all, and considering the damage reduction it would need 4 hits to kill the vampire - together with fast healing, this means that if he can outmaneuver the giant with bat-form or spider climb, the vampire is save. Also, children of the night (Bat swarms) is likely to kill the giant, if he wastes his electricity spells on the vampire. Iron Golem: Two slams, average 1 hit for ~12 damage after DR. After fast healing this says, that the Vampire survives 5 rounds (unless he decides to turn into a bat and heal a bit). Obviously, the vampire has some trouble, dealing damage, too, but he is far from useless for the party. 12-headed Cryo/Pyro Hydra: Those beasts freaking kill everything!! Nobody likes them. At least, if he is protected from the element via protection from elements or resist elements, then with his enery-draining attacks, the vampire can work around the fast healing 22! So with a little support or the right potion picked, the vampire can do it better then anyone else. Ice Devil: The vampire has a good chance to survive a cone of cold even on a failed save (46 before cold-resistence 10), with sucessful saves, he can stand against the opponent a long time. However a good attack would be needed to hit the opponent, too. Still, far from useless. Lich, 11th level Wizard: Buddy, Fellow, among us mighty undead, we can diplomacy through it can't we? (We better can. If it was a rogue, ranger or light fighter, than I'd place my bet on the vampire. Heavy Fighter/Barbarien would be a tie, spellcaster definitly favores the Lich. And yes, the vampire won't last very long. Mummy Lord: What's your bidding, my master? The vampire better avoids this fight. It's better for the group. Death Slaad: If the death slaad is not cunning enough to know he has to use his fireball, or the character is cunning enough to get a resist fire potion, then the slaad has no way to seriously threaten the vampire, but an energy-draining slam rapidly takes down the slaad.
Poodle 09-08-06, 05:34 PM	Ok I have finally found out (some) of the changes he made to vamp first he has given them lvls based on blood (so blood is xp) i am sure you knew what these lvls do not affect you class lvl at all except that when they move from "blood lvl" To blood lvl they will get more stat bonuses and maybe abilities. Second they no longer are killed by sun it just makes them a bit weaker . Also the vamp dose not have to sleep during the day. and since I am a lvl 6 character in a game for lvl 8 with a ecl 14 and I will go up in lvls as a lvl 6 character not as a lvl 14 I should be alright.
PhaedrusXY 09-08-06, 06:36 PM	What?... So he changed the vampire, and you have a LA +2?
Poodle 09-09-06, 05:01 AM	No lol Alright the vampire is the same as it is in the monster manual except that it is even harder to kill now because it dose not have any real disadvantages it has not lost any abilities And for the purposes of this few session campaign there is no la none at all there is no such thing as la
Poodle 09-09-06, 06:08 PM	I know it’s a little wired but any more ideas
Poodle 09-10-06, 03:14 AM	just keeping it alive to get the last few thoughts and opinions on the whole thing :) :)
Question2 09-10-06, 05:08 AM	I dont think theres any more to say, its all in the hands of your DM, it sounds quite overpowered though, especially no LA. There is absolutely no incentive to play low LA or no LA races in that case. Might as well play a divine rank 0 axiomatic human. Oh btw level 10 wizard can kill a ECL 13 vampire PC with a single spell 100% of the time. This is why its pointless to play a vampire PC unless : -You can guarantee the DM will only throw enemies at you that CANNOT kill you in one round most of the time -You can guarantee that there will be no combat whatsoever.
Maraxus 09-10-06, 08:04 AM	And which spell is that? As far as I see it, his best chance is fireball. 10d6 are 35. vs 38HP, sounds round about 40%, and that's on a failed save without fire resistence item (fire resi 10 is very reasonable, is you see that they allready are resistent to cold and electricity). Empowered fireball, however should be quite deadly, absolutely requirering the vampire to do his save (or haveing good luck and a little fire-resistence item). However, I don't think empowered fireballs are too common. And don't forget that a Level 13, Con14 wizard get's very heavily burned by that, too (and does not simply turn into a gaserous form, if the dice are evil). At level 11, the wizard get's the option to learn disintegrate, which is much better (especially if he wants to kill the vampire and not simply turning him to his gaserous form) but as I said, this one is special. Any vampire PC should at least have a ring of counterspells with that one spell in it. Poodle: As we said, some buff-spells, are good, as well as a good attack, therefor Duskblade and Battle Sorcerer are best choises. Since the level is high enough, cleric would be a possilbe choise, too - but that does not seam to be your concept. With the right equipment, you could take a pure warrior class. Barbarien is especially interesing. Your rage only last short, but you are immune to the fatigue, so you can use it without hesitation. A bit of rogue could be interesting to become an Assasin as soon as possible, since that spell list perfectly fits you, too. But Ranger/Assasin might even be better. Monk is interesting because it's good whenever you have a race with high attributes. But the attack will be weak. Let's see other classes: Hexblade: nice. Full BAB, Arcane Resistence, some useful spells. Swashbuckler: Nice untill insightful strike. After that there is not much. Scout: Nice, since with your energy drain, youhave an edge when only one attack the round is made. This works good with Skirmish, so take spring attack an be a scout. Of cause good reflex save and Evasion is very useful for you, too. But again only moderate BAB.
scrobacca 09-10-06, 12:25 PM	Well, first and foremost...let's not forget that a second level cleric can destroy you whether you have d4, d6, d8, d10, or d12 HP. And he doesn't even have to hit you. One turn undead and POOF...no more vampire. As far as classes go...Make your first three levels Emancipated Spawn from "Savage Species." It explains why you're a free vampire first and foremost, and it will give you bonuses to your turn resistance. If you're playing in Forgotten Realms, I would suggest taking the route that gets you to be a Telflammar Shadowlord from "Unapproachable East," or the Thayan Gladiator from "Champions of Ruin." Although a perfect PrC for flavor would be a Nightmask Deathbringer (also in "Champions of Ruin.") If you're not playing in Forgotten Realms, and just using core books...I would go with Warmage/Cleric of Nerull/Mystic Theurge. D12 Hit Die, Mithril Full Plate, and a menagerie of spells, not to mention you can still heal yourself, it's hard to stake you through metal armor, and you can make yourself impervious to any energy damage that tries to hurt you.
Poodle 09-10-06, 05:30 PM	Thank you all :) I guess I will go with the battle sorcerer / something and maybe /something again :)) thanks again for all your help
Maraxus 09-11-06, 10:48 AM	scrobacca: It's not a second level cleric, it's a cleric of twice "your hit dies + turning resistence 4), so to destroy a first level vamire, it needs a cleric 10. To destroy a 5th level vampire, the cleric has to be level 18... Afaik the only way to up his level for the cleric is to take the improved turning feat, what increases his level by a puny 1. After the first two level, where you really have to fear a cleric that could destroy you by turning, every cleric that can destroy you by turning is strong enought to kill the whole party with the rest of his abilities. ...What does not mean, that tuning is a bad idea for the cleric. Unless it's a really ugly (Half-Orc or Dwarf, probably) cleric with negative charisma-modifier, and he is unlucky on the turning check, the vampire will allways be sent fleeing away by a cleric of his ECL.
zlatko 09-11-06, 12:17 PM	Master Vampire -> Life drinker. (libris mortis, bovd) bte, vampire template blows big time. Lich rules.