Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Knitsuge 10-27-07, 09:53 AM	A lot of people have complained that you really get penalized for multi-classing. A 20th level character that took 2 levels in 10 different classes really isn't that much stronger than a 2nd level character. Sure, sometimes these class features work together well, but you still only can do anything at a 2nd level. A Wizard 5/Rogue 5 can still only cast a fireball at 5th level, not 10th. It seems that he should be able to cast his spells at higher caster levels, even if he is not learning new spells. Some people have answered this with Class Level = Character Level. That sounds pretty good, at first. Now a Wizard 5/Rogue 5 can cast a 10th level fireball. However, what about a level 17 Rogue who decides to take 3 levels in Wizard? Should that Rogue 17/Wizard 3 be able to cast spells at level 20? It seems to me like he hasn't been a wizard long enough to be able to do that. If he started with Wizard, however, it seems like the same character should. Here is my solution: Class Level Modifiers. When you take a new class, record your class level modifier. Your class level modifier is simply your current (new) level -1. You actually can record this for your first class, as well. So, in the example of a Rogue 17/Wizard 3 where he took the wizard class at level 18, his class modifiers would be Rogue 0, Wizard 17. Now, when you figure class level, you just take your Character class and subtract your class level modifier. So your modified class level (MCL) is Rogue 20, Wizard 3. If you took the Wizard levels first, however, the modifiers would be Wizard 0, Rogue 3, making the MCL Wizard 20, Rogue 17. I think this is a fairly easy way to make multi-classing a little more fair, but not overwhelmingly (and nonsensically) powerful. Do you think this is a good house rule?
vorpo 10-27-07, 12:50 PM	IMO, that's the price you pay for multiclassing. 5 wiz/5 rogue should and must stay at caster level 5 even if clvl is 10. If you can't live with caster lvl 5, take Practiced Spellcaster feat. So, this new way of yours isn't necessary unless you are playing a power campaign. But if you are, might as well go gestalt and makes life simpler.
Knitsuge 10-27-07, 01:41 PM	IMO, that's the price you pay for multiclassing. 5 wiz/5 rogue should and must stay at caster level 5 even if clvl is 10. If you can't live with caster lvl 5, take Practiced Spellcaster feat. So, this new way of yours isn't necessary unless you are playing a power campaign. But if you are, might as well go gestalt and makes life simpler. Ok, I'm going to sound like an idiot here, but what is gestalt?
vorpo 10-27-07, 01:58 PM	here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm)
Knitsuge 10-27-07, 03:09 PM	here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm) Thanks. I guess I've just never looked at that before.
chava 10-27-07, 03:23 PM	Or you could just take a page from the ToB classes and make caster level = lvls of caster class + 1/2 all other classes. Ergo, your 17 rogue/3 wizard would have a caster level of 11.
Ralvuimego 10-27-07, 05:54 PM	A lot of people have complained that you really get penalized for multi-classing. A 20th level character that took 2 levels in 10 different classes really isn't that much stronger than a 2nd level character. Sure, sometimes these class features work together well, but you still only can do anything at a 2nd level. A Wizard 5/Rogue 5 can still only cast a fireball at 5th level, not 10th. It seems that he should be able to cast his spells at higher caster levels, even if he is not learning new spells. From a caster's viewpoint, yes, multiclassing hurts you a great deal, but if you look at other class combinations, like Fighter/Rogue or Fighter/Ranger, or Barbarian/Monk (If you want to be rediculous, of course). You actually gain quite a bit of benefit without losing much more than a few points of BAB. If you want to help out casters (Who really don't need any more loving, IMO)and make them easier to multiclass, I'd either direct the player to a PrC that blends the two classes abilities together (Arcane Trickster, Mystic Theurge and Eldritch Knight, from the DMG alone), or take Chava's suggestion and give casters the same multiclassing bonus that ToB classes get.
Salla 10-27-07, 07:15 PM	There's a variant in Unearthed Arcana that gives caster level (but not spells known/per day/access etc.) based on one's other classes, too.
StevenO 10-27-07, 07:54 PM	Perhaps it is far simpler than it looks but to me that houserule is a bit too complicated and definitely requires too much bookwork. The only character classes that are really hurt by multiclassing are the spellcasters and they are generally regarded as the strongest to begin with. Two levels in each of ten classes may make a poor spellcaster but it would certainly be possible to make such a character work as a warrior type. If you have problems multiclassing your casters take a look at the various PrC. Warrior/Arcanist: Eldritch Knight and others Arcane/Divine Magic: Mystic Theurge Arcanist/Rogue: Arcane Trickster or Unseen Seer Warlock/Arcanist: Eldritch Theurge Warlock/Divine: Eldritch Disciple Book/Spontaneous arcanist: Ultimate Magus Warrior/Divine: This really doesn't need much help. Rogue/Divine: The hardest one but there are some PrCs that work or you could see about making a few changes to the cleric like dropping armor for skills.
Knitsuge 10-27-07, 09:53 PM	Thanks, everyone. It sounds like no one really thought it was a terrible idea, just that some thought there were better ways of doing it. Since many of those required books I don't (and now with 4th edition coming out, won't) have, and I don't like the idea of just saying, "use PRCs (in fact, I really don't like most PRCs in the DMG)," I think I am going to give my idea a try. I don't think it is much book keeping at all, really (How hard is it to keep track of what level you took your first class level in?). I might post here later to say whether I think it is working well or not.