Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Metamagick 01-07-07, 01:06 PM	Once Again, Hello!!! I havent been a member of this DnD board for long but lately I have been seeing alot of DnD stereotypes. Such as stupid fighters and non-charistmatic wizards. I dont understand this!!! I am going to play as an illusionist who has a charisma score of 17!!! Also one of my team mates has a barbarian who has a INT of 15. So this thread is where you'all can post some of your characters stats, background, or experiences that shatter class stereotypes!! Thanks!!! --Metamagick--
Ariath Ska'Vhor 01-07-07, 01:30 PM	I have a paladin with not only high dex, but he's managed to avoid the stick being put up his ass.
Templario 01-07-07, 02:30 PM	I have a fighter that acts more "paladinistic" than a normal paladin could be... maybe his silver dragon ancestry can say something about it o.O
Redja_the_Foolish 01-07-07, 03:03 PM	I agree, the classical fantasy and roleplaying stereotypes are not merely cliché but also quite outdated. An intelligent warrior is a good warrior. An intelligent and charismatic warrior is a good leader. Paladins are not meant to be stick in the muds/have sticks up their posteriors. The wizard with a huge intellect but a frail and weak body is just cliché. Isn't it more logical for a mage to train his physique and mind together so that his body can handle the strain of the arcane energies which he uses more easily. A strong mind in a strong body as the saying goes. It is a well known fact that the intellect performs better when the body is in a good shape than if it is obese or not properly muscled. A barbarian does not have to be uncharismatic or unintelligent or a brutal savage. An illusionist with a high charisma makes sense since he can make more plausible and better lies to convince people that his illusions are real. Stereotypes are bad, don't be stereotypical. The biggest offenders in my book are Conan the Cimmerian, Drizzt, Raistlin, Aragon and Legolas clones. People are still free to create whatever character concept they like and want to play.
Nitan 01-07-07, 03:09 PM	Conan is no stereotype. Anyways, the one stereotype that really bothers me is that the Barbarian is some hulking brute whose answer to everything is murder and destruction.
Metamagick 01-07-07, 03:19 PM	Yes let you stereotype anger out!!!
Teh_username 01-07-07, 03:33 PM	I break stereotypes more often than I actually live up to them. :D Some of my past characters have included: • The Tiefling Rogue whose points went entirely towards her Charisma and Charisma-based skills and was jealous of the party's Ranger for being better at "traditional" Roguish acts • The Human Ranger "big game hunter", whose interest in nature was in finding bigger and better game to make trophies out of • The Human Samurai who really just wanted to be a dancer, thanks, why did everyone make him get involved in this whole "fighting" thing anyway • The Drow Rogue in Melee-Magthere (a.k.a. "the Fighter school") trying to sleep his way to the top :embarrass • The (female) Drow Bard with ranks in Perform (Heckle), whose "Inspire Courage" could be more accurately termed "Inspire Killing Rage"
Bantam 01-07-07, 05:37 PM	I played an agile (15 dex) dwarf. Second highest in the party. I originally wanted him to be more acrobatic and spring-attacky, but that offended the DM and some of the other players' sensibilities of what a dwarf should be physically capable of and the "genre" of dwarves in general. So instead I went the high damage outputing dual-oversized weapons route. Got bored pretty quick.
revaar 01-07-07, 05:42 PM	my dwarvwen fighter likes his axes and likes his whiskey! he's no steryo...oh wait... he is... But that's why i play him. sometimes it can be fun to let go of all the seriousness and play a cliched fantasy stereyotpe. though at the same time on of my favorite characters was a half-orc cleric of pelor. he ended up being the party face cause he was so good at diplomacy...
Metamagick 01-07-07, 05:53 PM	my dwarvwen fighter likes his axes and likes his whiskey! he's no steryo...oh wait... he is... But that's why i play him. sometimes it can be fun to let go of all the seriousness and play a cliched fantasy stereyotpe. though at the same time on of my favorite characters was a half-orc cleric of pelor. he ended up being the party face cause he was so good at diplomacy... Oh Yes, playing very stereotypical characters are fun. Just sometimes people dont execpt people outside of the box. --Metamagick--
Argaud 01-07-07, 06:04 PM	Although playing stereotypes can be as fun as playing anti-stereotypes, the point creation system seems to lead to the creation of stereotypical characters. Fighters don't need int or cha, so they spend the points in other stats and we end up with mostly dumb and uncharismatic fighters. Wizards dump str and cha (and almost anything else) in their quest for super-high int, so we end with wizards that are weak, clumsy, unwise and uncharismatic. Interestingly enough I no longer see sickly wizards, that particular stereotype seems dead. Pretty much the same happens with the other classes. And if someone doesn't want to play the stereotype, that player is likely gimping his or her character. It is a problem that does not have an easy solution, since the points creation systems are certainly fairer than pure random dice creation.
navar100 01-07-07, 06:26 PM	Warlocks are still relatively new on the scene, but mine has nothing to do with demons or devils. He's also personable and outgoing, not a dire take no prisoners. Also, I never, ever play my clerics as one trick healing medics. Certainly healing is important, but a cleric who does other stuff as well is a better cleric for a better party and healing becomes less necessary except for the Big Bad Monster encounter. I once played a paladin who was wholesome. He did what was "right" because it "just was". It was a 2E game and he had the bare minimum in ability score requirements, except Charisma which as 18. There was one stereotype about him - he did not get along with the rogue well. Interestingly, another player soon joined playing another paladin - a more stereotypical macho paladin who did not like my paladin at all. Our party's rogue is also a bit against stereotype. Certainly he is larcenous, but he is also generous to NPCs. With respect to the party, he is unselfish, trustworthy, and loyal.
Drodain 01-07-07, 06:31 PM	I had a dwarven barbarian with an int of 18. He was an awesome craftsman. I was the most intelligent in the group and thought he was very fun to play. He was awesome.
LostPassWordDoesNotWork 01-07-07, 07:48 PM	I play my mages like BM & RM. Yep their borderline stereotypical. I almost play my rogues like that. Only they also try to rob you of your soul. And I play my warlocks like that. ...While making fun of goths. My meleer's like stabbing things too... :thinks: ...I think I play all my charecters like that. Kill the bad guys by any means, rob the blind/rich/merchent-that-wanted-to-much, escape from prison no matter what I did, and never ever attack the dragon intill the rest of the party is. Chaotic alignments rule. :dancin:
Lykos 01-07-07, 08:01 PM	Samurai with 7 Con., 16 cha and i love him! how is about that? ;) Has a special backround about this number and do it in purpose... really great pal :D
scienceman47 01-07-07, 08:14 PM	Although playing stereotypes can be as fun as playing anti-stereotypes, the point creation system seems to lead to the creation of stereotypical characters. Fighters don't need int or cha, so they spend the points in other stats and we end up with mostly dumb and uncharismatic fighters. Wizards dump str and cha (and almost anything else) in their quest for super-high int, so we end with wizards that are weak, clumsy, unwise and uncharismatic. Interestingly enough I no longer see sickly wizards, that particular stereotype seems dead. Pretty much the same happens with the other classes. And if someone doesn't want to play the stereotype, that player is likely gimping his or her character. It is a problem that does not have an easy solution, since the points creation systems are certainly fairer than pure random dice creation. Actually, a fighter in core only really cant afford to give up int. All the good feats lie therein. And just about every wizard I've seen has good dex and above average con, so its really a matter of lifting power. A conjurer will have at least average charisma for charisma checks. Usually the class will have one stat that gets ruined regardless. Everything else seems to be fair game. But thats only in my experience.
demonic_dante 01-07-07, 09:51 PM	there is a wizard in my party who has the highest constitution. At one point he actually had more hit points than everyone but the barbarian. It always bugged me (that he wasted a feat on toughness, not that he had a high con). The ramblings of Demonic_Dante
dragonfire8974 01-08-07, 12:15 AM	i play a completely even swordsage. all her ability scores are within 2 of eachother. she's awesome. i love that about TOB, even if you don't optimize, you can still have a strong character
DM Zoc 01-08-07, 12:32 AM	I'll agree with the previous posters who say that there is a reason why stereotypes exist, and characters who go against the stereotype are much more likely to die. That being said, I also recall having a lot of fun with a pixie barbarian, and it was impossible to avoid good mental stats on that one.
Turaj 01-08-07, 12:48 AM	I like characters who are stereotypical, but try not to be. I have a warlock/acolyte of the skin, total dark and brooding character, but who because of his past hates what he is even though he uses the power it gives him. does that make sense??:confused:
Redja_the_Foolish 01-08-07, 01:05 AM	Dwarves should be agile with their bodily physique and build. At least they must have good manual dexterity because they are such good crafters. Good motor skills is a must when doing fine details on metal or woodwork. Actually since rolling a dice is mainly a thing of probability and mathematics it is more likely to get high stats using a die since anyone who is good at math or have practiced how to throw a die know how to roll high numbers with a six sider relatively easy when rolling on a flat surface. That is why as someone pointed out you have to bounce the dice against the wall when playing craps since it is often a more difficult roll. I often roll exactly as I want my rolls to go when playing board games and the nice thing about it is that anyone can learn to do it with practice. Rolling straight sixes is easy since it is all a matter of die-palm alignment and force used when throwing it. As the saying goes, it's all in the wrist.
TheDarkLord 01-08-07, 01:09 AM	Although playing stereotypes can be as fun as playing anti-stereotypes, the point creation system seems to lead to the creation of stereotypical characters. This is why people use the core version of attaining attributes, not the variant point buy version (Oooh, thats going to rub people the wrong way :D) Seriously though, I have a houserule in effect that helps somewhat with stereotypes. Every four levels instead of gaining a single point you can put into an attribute, you instead gain two. One attribute must go to a physical stat and one must go to a Mental stat. This I believe more accurately reflects an adventurers progress.
Roivas 01-08-07, 01:11 AM	Personally I'll just play anything, I have no taste. I've played a paladin that refused to kill, a demon who wanted to destroy the entire world, and a cowardly wizard. My non-sterotypical characters were a bit rare, but that's only because what is considered a stereotype broadens quite often. 1. The ninja with zero slight of hand and spent more time in melee combat than both the fighters. 2. The dwarf who shaved all the hair off of his head [including his beard] as this could be used against him in combat. He was a grapple monk, but still went against the dwarf stereotype. 3. My first fighter Zehn Fuss who was the first one to try to cricumvent the traps. Using his trusty ten foot pole, and his other mundane items Zehn frequently bypassed most traps with ease using his wits. 4. Lastly my paladin who wasn't much of a talker, and a rather bitter old man. He was a very brutal and merciless person towards evil, but he preferred to keep to himself and rarely interferred in the rest of the party's business. And I'm trapped on my really weird characters that tried to break the molds. I'm sure they will soon become industry standards.
skywyze 01-08-07, 01:33 AM	I enjoyed playing a half-orc ranger/artificer once. Full on dex and cha, crappy strength (for a half-orc at least). He was easily the most civilized of the party members. Instead of using one of those "barbaric and outdated" bows, he used a big honking musket. He enjoyed prowling around the savanna, hunting elephants and the like with his giant elephant gun, and when the hunt was over, he'd go home to stuff and mount their heads thanks to his Craft (Taxidermy). He'd then sit down with a nice cup of tea, groom his muttonchops and talk about how these unruly savages must be taught the virtues of civilized life. Think 1800s British Colonial officer. Overall a fun character, and not to shabby for combat value either.
angryman 01-08-07, 10:29 AM	Redja_the_Foolish The wizard with a huge intellect but a frail and weak body is just cliché. Endless hours of study will do that to you. Also, a wizard may also think that brains/magic are superior to brawn/strength. The biggest offenders in my book are Conan the Cimmerian.. If you read the books, you'll find Conan is extremely cunning and tactical, utilising stealth and distractions to get enemies, save friends etc. He starts his career as a thief! He is also multilingual, and can speak most languages of the known world. He also becomes the King of Corneria, leads an army of knights, and the only reason he leaves is because he doesn't like that lifestyle.
DM Zoc 01-08-07, 10:48 AM	If you read the books, you'll find Conan is extremely cunning and tactical, utilising stealth and distractions to get enemies, save friends etc. He starts his career as a thief! He is also multilingual, and can speak most languages of the known world. He also becomes the King of Corneria, leads an army of knights, and the only reason he leaves is because he doesn't like that lifestyle. And between him and every character in a Drizzt book, they don't have one single-digit stat between them. I say, feel free to play against the stereotype if you roll more 18's than you know what to do with.
angryman 01-08-07, 11:18 AM	And between him and every character in a Drizzt book, they don't have one single-digit stat between them. I say, feel free to play against the stereotype if you roll more 18's than you know what to do with. The complaint was against stereotypes, not against heroes who are by definition, exceptional. I'd say Conan's mental stats are good, though not amazingly high. And please don't compare Robert E. Howard (good) with most D&D novels. (bad)
Redja_the_Foolish 01-08-07, 12:57 PM	Endless hours of study will do that to you. Also, a wizard may also think that brains/magic are superior to brawn/strength. Seriously, the apprentice wizard cannot take twenty minutes off his arcane and mental practices to do some sit ups or go jogging or swimming or even lift some rocks? A wizard who says that intellect is more important than bodily power is not very intelligent since any knowledgable being knows that a strong mind becomes more strong in a healthy body than in a frail one. In the real world the brain works more efficiently if the body is healthy and strong than if one is obese or not very physically fit or don't have enough good musculature. A wizard who values his mental strength is also smart enough to realize that a balance between mind and body is required to reach his full potential. Gandalf was not very physically frail, nor were many other classical fantasy wizards, in fact Raistlin only came to his full potential when his body became strong and whole and healthy. Yes, Conan used tactics, was a thief, was extremely well schooled and somewhat erudite, was quite intelligent and guileful yet loyal, pious and wise, he set traps, was very brave and more cunning than a fox.
Poison_Dusk 01-08-07, 03:17 PM	I just rolled up a human Dread Necromancer with 18STR, 14, DEX, 16, CON, 12 INT, 10, WIS, 18 CHA. He wears all white and hates to be touched or get dirty. He carries a wand of prestadigitation(sp?) amd a wand of mending to keep his clothes clean. He carries a mace and a compsite longbow. No one in the party even knows he is a necromancer.
SephDragoon 01-08-07, 03:52 PM	Well... more by accident than anything, I ended up with the second highest str in my old party, only second to the fighter by 1 point. (I had a 17) And I was the wizard... Imagine the DM's face when I own the str check for lifting the bars off my cage :P. Also, my current character, a sorcerer has pretty high intelligence, and an 18 for str (why do I do this?) only because of a disease I got which increased my muscle size... but currently, I am looking for a cure. A female sorcerer with bulging muscles and festering boils takes a huge diplomacy hit >_<. Also, said sorcerer only learns spells that has to do with bladed objects and telekinesis, wears a mithril chain shirt instead of robes, and carries around two daggers (twf'ed), two katanas, and a ton of collosal shurikens. Yes, no fireballs out of this one!
Ralvuimego 01-08-07, 07:06 PM	The biggest steriotype that has bugged me is the Dragon Blooded sorceror. It's just overdone, and wizards is lending their support by producing all sorts of feats, spells, and PrCs for dragon blooded sorcerors. It wouldn't really bug me that much, if so many people didn't accept it as the only background for a sorceror, as if the only way to be a sorceror was to be dragon blooded. Personally, I've played a Djinn-blooded sorceror, a Commoner turned magic born mutant, and (My personal favorite) an incredibly convincing illusion with a mind of it's own created by an epic wizard, and I've enjoyed playing each of these, even if they weren't optimal (IE: Not having the latest dragon related PrC and Feat.). As for breaking the other class steriotypes, I've seen a half-orc monk who left Dex out of his build in favor of Str and Con. I've seen a blind archery-scout with a +25 to listen at lvl 10. (This one is one of my favorites) I've seen a Gnome Spellthief who believed himself to be the reincarnation of an ancient god of banditry.
SephDragoon 01-08-07, 08:17 PM	Hm... I don't play a dragon blooded sorcerer either. In fact, the only odd blood the character has is vampiric, not draconic. So yeah, I don't see the reason for it either.
hisnamehere 01-08-07, 08:35 PM	Remember that conditioning (of any stat or ability) takes time. The wizard is usually less physically capable than the fighter because the wizard spends more time getting kyphosis hunched over ancient tomes, breathing in rotting paper/dragonskin/humanskin and dust and forgetting to eat. The fighter is usually less mentally capable than the wizard because he spends his day exhausting his body running training gauntlets and passes out one page into his sci-fi/fantasy novel. The cunning fighter would have a different BACKGROUND. He would spend his days watching other people fight, learning other's actions and coordinating his own to maximum effect. But that typically strong and tough guard can have a colorful and unique background that makes him better than his stats. (Sorry, that's all kinda disjointed...where'd my outline go...?) Colorful characters: - minotaur psion (shaper, I think) with spiked gauntlet (later to used in a meld weapon power). - 16 Dex, 6 Con; noble's son who spent his time mastering thrown weapons...and drinking his face off. Rehab was a beech. - 8 Str, 13 Dex & Wis; middle-aged man who lost his family and went to become a monk (argued that his age adjustments had already taken place). - spent 10 years gaming without ever playing a gnome illusionist; played one and logically took lots of Sleight of Hand ranks (i.e. non-magical prestidigitation) - just seems cool. His first fight was won by slicking the stones (with a shipment of soap from the caravan we were defending) along a mountain path and casting fog cloud. Enemies came running around the corner and slipped off to a man. Yoink.
Geezer 01-08-07, 08:51 PM	Well, one of my favorite characters is an aristocrat/barbarian (yes, I used a NPC class), who was born into a noble family. You get alot of weird looks from the party members when the king greets you like a son, after they have previously seen you rip the heads off some goblins in a mindless fury.
Oregwath 01-08-07, 09:08 PM	Well, my current char is a bit ... odd. The DM said I could introduce psionics into this game with the understanding that there would be no psionic items or powers, and I agreed. So my Elan is a runaway from an evil race of outsider slavers who where manipulating humans to make a more durable slave. (the party wasn't happy that I brought the evil outsider race hunting them down...) She had always been of a servile mindset, being raised by trafficers in living beings, so the only class that offered her a warm fuzzy was the samurai (yes, the complete warrior version) she devoted herself to fharlanghn so he could show her the road to seek revenge on her former masters. I have ignored most of the TWF that comes with the class, focusing on the katana instead, and bringing the power of her ancestors to bear in the form of all those spiffy psionic feats. Those coupled with the damage reducers and save bumps by the elan powers make her claims of protective spirits seem logical to the rest of the party. Okay, so it might not be breaking a ton of stereotypes, but the unusual combo of class, race, and abilities sure keeps the DM on his toes. :P
angryman 01-08-07, 09:50 PM	Redja_the_Foolish Seriously, the apprentice wizard cannot take twenty minutes off his arcane and mental practices to do some sit ups or go jogging or swimming or even lift some rocks? I always have a high CON for my wizard characters. :) A wizard who says that intellect is more important than bodily power is not very intelligent since any knowledgable being knows that a strong mind becomes more strong in a healthy body than in a frail one. But the wizard didn't choose his stats, you did. He was born intelligent and puny, so he justifies his puniness by saying it's irrelevant.
Sines 01-08-07, 10:32 PM	Welp, my Dwarven Warblade with 14 Int is a bit odd, but not really. Now, the other character in this game? Half-Orc Bardarian. He has Int 4, Cha 16, can rage and smash up a whole room, but just point and smile and get everyone to love him. It's halarious, as he can barely speak any language, but he plans on keeping diplomacy maxed. As far as having skill points with an Int of 4? I came up with a Rainman Feat, giving him 2 skill points per class level (Not multiplied by 4 at first level), which allows him 3 at his barb levels and 5 at his bard levels. This game also may have a Half-Orc Ninja in it as well :D Anyway, I think stereotypical stats just come from the fact that people choose thier own stats. In 'Real-life' a person smart enough to be a competant wizard might not have the usual dexterity to avoid blows or aim his rays, but might actually be unusually strong, he might make use of this by preparing many melee touch attack skills. A man with a flair for swords might not be terribly strong or quick, but find he is more than smart enough to outsmart most foes who come his way (And have the extra skill points to help). When players make characters they either point buy for useful stats, or roll then they have thier priorities. While I like having a character with a high Charisma and Intelligence (Use of Intelligence for Warblade Class abilities is a huge reason why I prefer them over the fighter, not to mention better skill list and more skills), its hard to justify blowing that many attribute points on a warrior before I pump up his Strength and Constitution. In high point buy, or with good rolls, an illusionist or enchanter might determine that as long as he has adequate dex and con, that he'd like to have Charisma be his second highest stat, the better to manipulate those around him. However, with lower point buy or rolls, the player may not have the luxury to invest in attributes that don't make him competant (Str, Int, Wis, Cha), or keep him alive (Dex, Con).
The_Mad_Linguist 01-08-07, 10:41 PM	A wizard who says that intellect is more important than bodily power is not very intelligent since any knowledgable being knows that a strong mind becomes more strong in a healthy body than in a frail one. Yes. Notice how that's reflected in the rules by capping mental stats with physical stats. That isn't a rule? Well surely you get some sort of skill synergy bonus from constitution to intelligence? No bonus? At least it makes your spells more powerful, right?
SephDragoon 01-08-07, 10:45 PM	Yes. Notice how that's reflected in the rules by capping mental stats with physical stats. That isn't a rule? Well surely you get some sort of skill synergy bonus from constitution to intelligence? No bonus? At least it makes your spells more powerful, right? Actually, though you like to be a smartass, Constitution IS the stat used by concentration, so there :P.
Azar_of_Faerun 01-08-07, 10:59 PM	I once played a Cleric of Lathander with 19 Dex and Profession (street performer) Quite agile, and he reflected his deity's penchant for branching into other talents by being the group juggler.