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| Wookie112007-29-05, 05:31 PM | Due to all the debate between which is better, Wizard or Sorcerer, and the fact that their roles overlap, I tried combining to the two. Rough Draft: Wizorer/Sorcerard Combining scholarly study and intense magical training with spontaneous casting, these are the epitome of Magic users. Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d4. Class Skills The wizorer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Spells per Day 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Summon Familiar 4 2 2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 5 3 3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 5 4 2 4th +2 +1 +1 +4 5 5 3 5th +2 +1 +1 +4 5 5 4 2 6th +3 +2 +2 +5 5 5 5 3 7th +3 +2 +2 +5 5 5 5 4 2 8th +4 +2 +2 +6 5 5 5 5 3 9th +4 +3 +3 +6 5 5 5 5 4 2 10th +5 +3 +3 +7 5 5 5 5 5 3 11th +5 +3 +3 +7 5 5 5 5 5 4 2 12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 2 14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 2 16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 2 19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 Class Abilities Weapon and Armor Proficiency Wizards are proficient with the club, dagger, dart, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, quarterstaff, and sling, but not with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a wizards movements, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail. spells casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows, up to, but not including, his highest level known, without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or a cleric must (see below). His highest level of spells must be prepared as a wizard normally would. To learn or cast a spell, he must have an intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against his spell is 10 + the spell level + his intelligence modifier. Like other spellcasters, they can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the above table. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high intelligence score. Like a wizard, she may know any number of spells. She must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time by getting a good nights sleep and spending 1 hour studying her spellbook. While studying, she decides which spells of her highest level to prepare. Familiar They can obtain a familiar in exactly the same manner as a sorcerer can. See the sorcerer description and the information on Familiars for details. Spellbooks She must study her spellbook each day to prepare her spells. She cannot prepare any spell not recorded in her spellbook, except for read magic, which all can prepare from memory. She begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level sorcerer/wizard spells plus three 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus you have, the spellbook holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizorer level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new wizorer level) for her spellbook. At any time, a wizorer can also add spells found in other wizards or wizorers' spellbooks to her own. Edit: while this started out as a joke, my players have voiced intrest in just combining the two classes. so, balance issues and any other advice is appreciated. I'm sure this is far from a perfect class, but maybe with some work it can be made playable. |
| Vestigial_Thumb07-29-05, 05:58 PM | *voice gets louder and more insane like* So... confusing... can't... read... table *now screaming madly* Create... table... and paste... in thread |
| Verelor07-29-05, 06:01 PM | You did an ok job, but this has already been done, and done 300 times better. It's called the Arcanist, and Jaerom Darkwind, another member of the boards, created it. Find it below in my sig :D |
| Wookie112007-29-05, 06:17 PM | *voice gets louder and more insane like* So... confusing... can't... read... table *now screaming madly* Create... table... and paste... in thread tried that. but everytime I did, it messed with my formatting. very irritating, I eventually gave up. Needless to say, this is the first time I've tried to post a class to the boards... if you have any formatting tips for me, they would be well recieved. You did an ok job, but this has already been done, and done 300 times better. It's called the Arcanist, and Jaerom Darkwind, another member of the boards, created it. Find it below in my sig reminds me too much of a spell point system, which I'm not fond of. But that is a pretty good class. Thanks for the link. |
| Nephlite07-29-05, 07:27 PM | Due to all the debate between which is better, Wizard or Sorcerer, and the fact that their roles overlap, I tried combining to the two. Rough Draft: Wizorer/Sorcerard Combining scholarly study and intense magical training with spontaneous casting, these are the epitome of Magic users. Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d4. Class Skills The wizorer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Spells per Day 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Summon Familiar 4 2 — — — — — — — — 2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 5 3 — — — — — — — — 3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 5 4 2 — — — — — — — 4th +2 +1 +1 +4 5 5 3 — — — — — — — 5th +2 +1 +1 +4 5 5 4 2 — — — — — — 6th +3 +2 +2 +5 5 5 5 3 — — — — — — 7th +3 +2 +2 +5 5 5 5 4 2 — — — — — 8th +4 +2 +2 +6 5 5 5 5 3 — — — — — 9th +4 +3 +3 +6 5 5 5 5 4 2 — — — — 10th +5 +3 +3 +7 5 5 5 5 5 3 — — — — 11th +5 +3 +3 +7 5 5 5 5 5 4 2 — — — 12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 — — — 13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 2 — — 14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 — — 15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 2 — 16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 — 17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 — 18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 2 19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 Class Abilities Weapon and Armor Proficiency Wizards are proficient with the club, dagger, dart, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, quarterstaff, and sling, but not with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a wizard’s movements, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail. spells casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows, up to, but not including, his highest level known, without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or a cleric must (see below). His highest level of spells must be prepared as a wizard normally would. To learn or cast a spell, he must have an intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against his spell is 10 + the spell level + his intelligence modifier. Like other spellcasters, they can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the above table. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high intelligence score. Like a wizard, she may know any number of spells. She must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time by getting a good night’s sleep and spending 1 hour studying her spellbook. While studying, she decides which spells of her highest level to prepare. Familiar They can obtain a familiar in exactly the same manner as a sorcerer can. See the sorcerer description and the information on Familiars for details. Spellbooks She must study her spellbook each day to prepare her spells. She cannot prepare any spell not recorded in her spellbook, except for read magic, which all can prepare from memory. She begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level sorcerer/wizard spells plus three 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus you have, the spellbook holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizorer level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new wizorer level) for her spellbook. At any time, a wizorer can also add spells found in other wizards’ or wizorers' spellbooks to her own. Edit: while this started out as a joke, my players have voiced intrest in just combining the two classes. so, balance issues and any other advice is appreciated. I'm sure this is far from a perfect class, but maybe with some work it can be made playable. I notice you didn't make charisma a important Stat? So at level 1, I have to prepare 1st level spells, but not lv 0 spells. Interesting concept. Still think you should have Charisma do something: Maybe 1/2 Charisma bonus is added to Spell DC: 10 + the spell level + his intelligence modifier+ 1/2 Charisma Modifier. While this will make him better in his spells DC if he has good Int and Charisma, Spontanous casting is linked to Charisma so it makes sense. |
| Wookie112007-29-05, 08:16 PM | While this will make him better in his spells DC if he has good Int and Charisma, Spontanous casting is linked to Charisma so it makes sense. while I agree it makes sense, I was a little worried about the balance issues with that. I've always thought spell DCs were kinda low, but then I usually play characters with great saves(such as monks, halflings and paladins). Maybe make the spell DCs 10 + spell levels + 1/2 cha + 1/2 int. that would require both be high. maybe do the same to other things... but that just seems to add to the complexity. maybe base spells/level and max spell level on int and make the DCs based on cha. |
| Ibbins07-29-05, 09:24 PM | Consider using Cha as the only ability to boost the DC. Intelligence influences the base spellcasting ability, and sheer force of mind(Cha) gives the spells their oomf. |
| StevenO07-29-05, 11:13 PM | Class Summary: BAB-poor, Good Save-Will, HD 1d4, skill 2pt, spells-effectively as wizard but spontaneously cast anything other than highest level. The way I see this presented is that the wizard gives up his few bonus feats for the ability to spontaneously cast all but his highest level spells. Unless you work diligently to keep his known spell list small this caster would have too many available options. If you start handing out lots of new spells the wizorer has too many (read is too good) options that require no forthought what so ever. My suggestion for a combined class it to take the sorcerer's spell progression but allow the "know spell" list to be changed by preping a new spell from the spell book. This basically follows the sorcerer class but allows a character to use a spellbook to vary the spells actually available on any day like a wizard. Your class says keep the high level spells as a wizard but treat all lower level spells like a sorcerer except that their is no limit to what those slots could be used for. |
| runestar07-30-05, 12:46 AM | Just go gestalt wizard/sorc and get it over and done with. |
| Tigger06207708-01-05, 12:45 PM | I like the idea that this class presents. Still being relatively new to DnD, I don't know what's broken and what isn't. But I do like the idea of combining the two classes - my first class ever was a sorceress and it was a little difficult for me. I tried playing a wizard a few characters later and liked it even less. But I loved having a spellbook... :) If you could make this work, it would be great! :D |
| azoun08-01-05, 02:24 PM | Very cool idea... really like it ! Funny how jokes can bring interesting stuff... Consider using Cha as the only ability to boost the DC. Intelligence influences the base spellcasting ability, and sheer force of mind(Cha) gives the spells their oomf. I agree with Ibbins : Charisma should be used to determine spell DCs, while Intelligence the bonus spells. Charisma should not be left out. |
| Wookie112008-01-05, 04:50 PM | The way I see this presented is that the wizard gives up his few bonus feats for the ability to spontaneously cast all but his highest level spells. Unless you work diligently to keep his known spell list small this caster would have too many available options. If you start handing out lots of new spells the wizorer has too many (read is too good) options that require no forthought what so ever. true, he has a lot of options. I took his spells per day down to help balance that. Perhaps, to help limit his spells know, raise the DC for learning a new spell. start off with his 2+int mod 1st level and 4+int mod 0lvl in his book, gain 2/level. Add in a check to "learn" the spell and put it in the spellbook. spellcraft check DC 15+spell level. that should significantly lower the number of spells at his disposal. |
| StevenO08-01-05, 06:48 PM | true, he has a lot of options. I took his spells per day down to help balance that. Perhaps, to help limit his spells know, raise the DC for learning a new spell. start off with his 2+int mod 1st level and 4+int mod 0lvl in his book, gain 2/level. Add in a check to "learn" the spell and put it in the spellbook. spellcraft check DC 15+spell level. that should significantly lower the number of spells at his disposal. You reduced the spells per day? Only if your using the sorcerer's casting progression but advanced it so that the gain the new spell level on odd instead of even levels (holding back the 9th level spells doesn't count.) Your spell per day progression exceeds the wizards at all levels (except no 9th level at lv17) except that only the top spell has to be prepared (Hey I gain a new spell level, get two new spells and can prepare both of them!) and the rest can be spent on what is needed right now. Your starting spellbook restrictions aren't harsh but they gain free spells at the normal rate. Changing the spellcraft DC to learn a new spell will restrict a books growth only at the lowest levels when your system is the least abusive, at higher levels the DC again becomes easy and the caster now has more free wielding spells to play with. If I don't know better I'd think you are trying to make high level casters even MORE powerful than they are now. Take a second look at my suggested variation. Use the sorcerer as the class base but give it a wizard's spell book and allow the character to change his "spells know" like a wizard would memorize the spell. In short a sorcerer who can change his known spells daily. A better and more flexible caster but not the powerhouse you present. |
| Wookie112008-01-05, 08:05 PM | you right. oh well, I tried to make it work... but the more I think about it, the more I like the direction your headed. That does seem like a good idea. Thanks for the advice StevenO. |
| GEEKAZOID08-06-05, 05:31 PM | Table: The Wizorer/Sorcerard Base Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Summon familiar 4 2 2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 5 3 3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 5 4 2 4th +2 +1 +1 +4 5 5 3 5th +2 +1 +1 +4 5 5 4 2 6th +3 +2 +2 +5 5 5 5 3 7th +3 +2 +2 +5 5 5 5 4 2 8th +4 +2 +2 +6 5 5 5 5 3 9th +4 +3 +3 +6 5 5 5 5 4 2 10th +5 +3 +3 +7 5 5 5 5 5 3 11th +5 +3 +3 +7 5 5 5 5 5 4 2 12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 2 14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 2 16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 2 19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 |
| Nuntius12808-06-05, 05:43 PM | Yo, how about the Spellcaster from Unearthed Arcana? You can choose an Arcane version, or a Divine version, and your class-skills. |