Class Variants rating [Archive] - Wizards Community

Class Variants rating [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CaveDemon
06-15-05, 09:41 AM I'd like to know which base is the coolest/stronges/weakest vrtiants for each base class in your opinion.
A PDF on the containing base class variants (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Classes-Base.pdf)
:mage: -Coolest
:fight!: -Strongest
:gah: -Weakest
Nephlite
06-15-05, 02:58 PM I'd like to know which base is the coolest/stronges/weakest for each base class.
A PDF on the containing base class variants (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Classes-Base.pdf)
:mage: -Coolest
:fight!: -Strongest
:gah: -Weakest

1) I'll skip Barbs for now:
2) Bards
a. Divine Bard sounds cool so you get Bard list + supplement list.(both Divine)
b. Savage Bard: chaotic only...good fort and will, not ref. Illiterate...a illiterate bard is weird.

a. is coolest
b. kinda don't like illterate bard personally.

3) Cleric: (overpowered but always was in PHB)
a. Ancestral Speakler; 4 skill point/skill based Cleric without heavy armor. Doesn't need Holy symbol to cast. Lose domains, spiontanous cure/inflict, and turn undead. I have to say I like them.

b. Arcane Disciple: 1d6 hps, 4 skill points, no heavy armor, Arcane to Divine is pretty strong granted it is one spell level lower than highest you can cast. So at level 1 you can add 1 cantrip from wizard or bard list. Also give them a Bonus metamagic feat like a Wizard, pretty strong. Lose domains, spiontanous cure/inflict, and turn undead.

c. Aspirant: Lose domains, spiontanous cure/inflict, and turn undead. +1 Ac when helpless which increases , 4 skills points, no heavy armor, Couple times day spontanous cast any spell (similar to spontanousd curing by any spell), Counter divine spells withoutusing up spell slot a couple times/day.

d. Benevolent: Lose domains, spiontanous cure/inflict, and turn undead. 4 skills points, Luck domain useable Nth times (increases), and Spontsnous casting of cure but a few possible choices.

e. Crusader: Divine foe, Turn Foes's followers, Crusader bonus feats, Smite, one martial weapon. Lose domains, spiontanous cure/inflict, and turn undead.

I'll stop there, lots of variants lol
Aspirant is interesting, strange that uu get Ac bonus only when helpless. Better defense when sleeping?

Astral Speaker doesn't need a holy symbol so I like him.
However, Arcane Disciple seems to be strongest.
Crusader is sometimes weakest, but if facing foes of god than decent.

4) Druids (also considered overpowered but only Wild shape)
a. Avenger is a raging Wild shaper. Lose Animal companion +spontasnous casting summons.
b. Metal Master: All armor, metal weapons both simple + Martial, D10 hps, 2 skill points, Lose all druid features and only Fort good save.Later gain damage reduction. Except for spellcasting, not much of a druid...
c. Storm Druid: an Electrical druid. Cool version if you like lightning/electrical stuff
d. Wild Reaper: Turning later, loves meat eating animals, Lv 16 fast healing druid. Lose Wild Empathy, a few druid features.
e. Wind Walker: Air druid, lose Fort good but Ref becomes good, lose Druid features for airy features.

Avenger is cool because is a better wild shape fighter.
But I think best is Storm because I like Pikachu lol
Metal master is like the opposite of a druid because he likes metal. But he isn't weak.

5) Fighters
a. Bodyguards giving up a bonus feat can transfer for cover that transfers dodge bonus or shield to a 5 foot close ally. Better to protect them. Skills that are great Sense motive and spot. Can Great cleave if fighting defensively or using cover.
b. Exoticist (need a better name): loses martial weapons but gains 4 exotic. New abilities gained by giving up bonus feat involving exotic weapons. Gain tumble as a skill.
c. Fencer: Light armored, tumbling, bluff + diplomacy; give upbonus feats in exchange fior abilities. One adds +4 ac versus a opponent you criticaled. Lower enemies accuracy for a short while a couple times/day, or +2 Doidge bonus to Ac when opponent uses Power attacked or combat expertise.
d. Kensai: I made a Kensai too from buldar's gate game. I made it Flurry of attacks(same as blows but penalty never goes away) but yours gets a -3 penalty. You also have no restrictions like mine. Mime can't wear bracers or rings or lose abilities. But yours is decent.
e. Knight: Give up bonus feat gain abilities: don't lose Ac when charging and others
f. Pugilist: Gain improved Unarmed strike +strike does one size more damage. From 1d3 for meduim to 1d4. Gain Edurance. Give up bonus feat gain abilities: don't understand combo. Iron jaw allows youto gain Damage reduction against non-lethal damage. Can gain a feat to do extra non-lethal damage for unarmed strike multiple times.
g. Shield Bearer (Armor bearer is more appropraite): Give up bonus feat gain abilities involving being better with armor.
h. Targeter: Give up bonus feat gain abilities involving archer.
h. Thug: Gains bonus feat gain abilities involving thugging.

Bodyguard and Fencer seem the best both mechanics/flavor. I still don'tunderstand Pugs combo.

6) Monk:
a. Holy Monk: Take away 1st and 6th monk bonus feat Gain turn undead, smite evil, aura of courage.
b. Hunting Monk: Lose slow fall, 1st bonus fea, gain ranger faviored enemies. Survival class skill.
c. Martial Monk: has 3 skills + Int? I don't think you can have 3. It is either 2 or 4. Any bonus feats can be fighter ones.
d. Raging Monk: Lose flurry +still mind+ Quiver palm, gain rage.
e. Steadfast Monk: Lose +1 Ac/5 levels, lose movement bonus, but gain Dam reduct 1/all like barb at 7th level and increases by 1 every 3 levels after.
f. Vigilant Monk: lose 2nd and 6th bonus monk feat, but gain Uncanny Dodge at level 2 and Improved at level 5.
g. Wild Monk: Lose speed bonus/Slow fall/bonus feats/quiver palm/Abundant step/still mind. Gain Wild shape like a druid at lv 5, 8, 10, 4, 18, 20.

Wild Monk could be cool, because though you might have low strength/dex/con, the animal you change into won't usually.
But the Steadfast monk is sweet with DR.
I think Hunting monk could be strongest similar to Ranger is facing rights foes, but Wild Monk in general should be great.

7) Skip Pals

8) Skip Rangers

9) Rogues:
a. Wildernesss Rogue has different Special abilities chosen at 10, 13, etc.different skills,

I perfer rogue but the Wildeness one can be useful in the open areas. I gues I'm a city guy.

10) Sorc: Battle Sorc is decent

11) Wizard, nah, skip

12) Artificier:Gains a alot of power at level 1. Better hd 1d6, 4 skills. light + meduim armor.

13) Hexblade is cool: Never read much of them. Why non good?

14) Skip Ssmurai, it isn't that good from complete warrior. Plus skipping a couple other bases.

15) Artistocart: You forget most important feature: Double starting money. If you are in a leel 2 adventure and Artistocrat gians he has 1800 gold instead of just 900.
It is there only great part about them, there are rich when joining.

I think it is a decent list.
Blaque
06-17-05, 09:12 AM Actual Varients:
Battle Sorcerer - I like these a lot. It gives the sorcerer a bi tmroe then "spontaneous wizerd" and a niche for an arcane meleer with some good offense built in ehre and there. The tradeoff of spells known is a bit of a kick between the legs though. I hav epondered on just making the "sorcerer" in games I run int he future actually battle sorcerers. It hink the HD, and BAB and the martial stuff make up for the lack of Wizerds feats that sorcerers don't get at all.

Commando-Style Druids - There's a varient on Druids in Unearthed Arcana where you abandon Wild Shape, and all your armor proficiencies, in exchange for Monk-style movement, and AC bonus. I found this really cool personally, sinc ei topens some nifty tactical options, and you can do the whole idea I like to do with Druids now and again of "ultimate superpredator" and all that.

Paladins of Tyrany/Slaughter/Freedom - These are just cool. Lawful Good is cool and all, but simply put, the idea of being able to try and work on a not-Lawful Good code of conduct is cool. It opens a lot more possible character concepts with the class that's just nice I think.

Urban Ranger - Obvioulsy for your city chronicles, this is a cool class. I like how they do their Urban Tracking in how it uses things like Gather Information and all that. Very fun a class.

Spelless Ranger - From Complete Warrior. I found htis relaly cool for the fact that when playing a Ranger, I don't feel like dealing with a spell list persomanlly. And htis lets me just ditch that, and have soem fun. I particulerly like how it gets increased movement. That has proven VERY effective in tactical situations, where i play a character who is very much a "run in, stab, retreat" sort. Granted, i should probalby be playing a scout, but htey weren't out at the time:)

Featy Rogue - THere's a Rogue varient in UA that sacrafices Sneak Attacks for Bonus Feats like a fighter. This I found really cool because it adds a lot of variety to the class, and make sit so you don't have to be a sneaky stabby-sort. Mainly helps more social Rogues I suppose.

New Classes:
Warmage - Very cool I think. Now and again, you want to blow stuff up I think. And I like how limited they are in other areas pretty badly hurting them in the long run I found. I mean, sometimes, it'd be nic eto be able to cast Detect Magic:)

Hexblade - I'm very fond of this class for some reason. Not all tha tpowerful though. I think that some things were weirdly done with them when compared to thing slike Paladins and Rangers, who just get some things better. Saves are a key one there. But ah well. Complete Arcane gives them quite anic ebuff though, I like dhtat. Especailly the whole Whirling Blady death:) I wish there were feats to augment the Hexblade's Curse in the way that the Warmage's Edge or Paladin's Smiting got buffed, even if it is soemthing like "Extra Curses".

Shugenja - Not new, but pretty fun I think. My main gripe here is that I'm a very sub-par character compared to the other divine casters. Mainly because I'm about as able to defend myself playing one as a wizerd or srocerer is, but don't get fireball-type tuff nearly as early as the other lcasses do. I mean, hoenstly. Sometimes, you wish there was just a frigin' fireball. The fact that they didn't actually put ANY new spells for them in Complete Divine was also kind adumb of the writers i feel.

Class Features:
Spontaneous Domains - This is something I've pondred on before. Something suggested in UA was the idea that Clerics could cast their domain spells spontaneously, like they can do Inflicts or Heals now. One variant of this I found really cool is that htey do this isntead of those spells. As a result, choosing your Domains effects yoru character a ways more, especially since it snice that it make sit so you can't just fall back on being a healer on a stick.

Umm, and stuff.
CaveDemon
06-19-05, 04:19 AM Bumpity-Bump
:bump:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CaveDemon 06-15-05, 09:41 AM	I'd like to know which base is the coolest/stronges/weakest vrtiants for each base class in your opinion. A PDF on the containing base class variants (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Classes-Base.pdf) :mage: -Coolest :fight!: -Strongest :gah: -Weakest
Nephlite 06-15-05, 02:58 PM	I'd like to know which base is the coolest/stronges/weakest for each base class. A PDF on the containing base class variants (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Classes-Base.pdf) :mage: -Coolest :fight!: -Strongest :gah: -Weakest 1) I'll skip Barbs for now: 2) Bards a. Divine Bard sounds cool so you get Bard list + supplement list.(both Divine) b. Savage Bard: chaotic only...good fort and will, not ref. Illiterate...a illiterate bard is weird. a. is coolest b. kinda don't like illterate bard personally. 3) Cleric: (overpowered but always was in PHB) a. Ancestral Speakler; 4 skill point/skill based Cleric without heavy armor. Doesn't need Holy symbol to cast. Lose domains, spiontanous cure/inflict, and turn undead. I have to say I like them. b. Arcane Disciple: 1d6 hps, 4 skill points, no heavy armor, Arcane to Divine is pretty strong granted it is one spell level lower than highest you can cast. So at level 1 you can add 1 cantrip from wizard or bard list. Also give them a Bonus metamagic feat like a Wizard, pretty strong. Lose domains, spiontanous cure/inflict, and turn undead. c. Aspirant: Lose domains, spiontanous cure/inflict, and turn undead. +1 Ac when helpless which increases , 4 skills points, no heavy armor, Couple times day spontanous cast any spell (similar to spontanousd curing by any spell), Counter divine spells withoutusing up spell slot a couple times/day. d. Benevolent: Lose domains, spiontanous cure/inflict, and turn undead. 4 skills points, Luck domain useable Nth times (increases), and Spontsnous casting of cure but a few possible choices. e. Crusader: Divine foe, Turn Foes's followers, Crusader bonus feats, Smite, one martial weapon. Lose domains, spiontanous cure/inflict, and turn undead. I'll stop there, lots of variants lol Aspirant is interesting, strange that uu get Ac bonus only when helpless. Better defense when sleeping? Astral Speaker doesn't need a holy symbol so I like him. However, Arcane Disciple seems to be strongest. Crusader is sometimes weakest, but if facing foes of god than decent. 4) Druids (also considered overpowered but only Wild shape) a. Avenger is a raging Wild shaper. Lose Animal companion +spontasnous casting summons. b. Metal Master: All armor, metal weapons both simple + Martial, D10 hps, 2 skill points, Lose all druid features and only Fort good save.Later gain damage reduction. Except for spellcasting, not much of a druid... c. Storm Druid: an Electrical druid. Cool version if you like lightning/electrical stuff d. Wild Reaper: Turning later, loves meat eating animals, Lv 16 fast healing druid. Lose Wild Empathy, a few druid features. e. Wind Walker: Air druid, lose Fort good but Ref becomes good, lose Druid features for airy features. Avenger is cool because is a better wild shape fighter. But I think best is Storm because I like Pikachu lol Metal master is like the opposite of a druid because he likes metal. But he isn't weak. 5) Fighters a. Bodyguards giving up a bonus feat can transfer for cover that transfers dodge bonus or shield to a 5 foot close ally. Better to protect them. Skills that are great Sense motive and spot. Can Great cleave if fighting defensively or using cover. b. Exoticist (need a better name): loses martial weapons but gains 4 exotic. New abilities gained by giving up bonus feat involving exotic weapons. Gain tumble as a skill. c. Fencer: Light armored, tumbling, bluff + diplomacy; give upbonus feats in exchange fior abilities. One adds +4 ac versus a opponent you criticaled. Lower enemies accuracy for a short while a couple times/day, or +2 Doidge bonus to Ac when opponent uses Power attacked or combat expertise. d. Kensai: I made a Kensai too from buldar's gate game. I made it Flurry of attacks(same as blows but penalty never goes away) but yours gets a -3 penalty. You also have no restrictions like mine. Mime can't wear bracers or rings or lose abilities. But yours is decent. e. Knight: Give up bonus feat gain abilities: don't lose Ac when charging and others f. Pugilist: Gain improved Unarmed strike +strike does one size more damage. From 1d3 for meduim to 1d4. Gain Edurance. Give up bonus feat gain abilities: don't understand combo. Iron jaw allows youto gain Damage reduction against non-lethal damage. Can gain a feat to do extra non-lethal damage for unarmed strike multiple times. g. Shield Bearer (Armor bearer is more appropraite): Give up bonus feat gain abilities involving being better with armor. h. Targeter: Give up bonus feat gain abilities involving archer. h. Thug: Gains bonus feat gain abilities involving thugging. Bodyguard and Fencer seem the best both mechanics/flavor. I still don'tunderstand Pugs combo. 6) Monk: a. Holy Monk: Take away 1st and 6th monk bonus feat Gain turn undead, smite evil, aura of courage. b. Hunting Monk: Lose slow fall, 1st bonus fea, gain ranger faviored enemies. Survival class skill. c. Martial Monk: has 3 skills + Int? I don't think you can have 3. It is either 2 or 4. Any bonus feats can be fighter ones. d. Raging Monk: Lose flurry +still mind+ Quiver palm, gain rage. e. Steadfast Monk: Lose +1 Ac/5 levels, lose movement bonus, but gain Dam reduct 1/all like barb at 7th level and increases by 1 every 3 levels after. f. Vigilant Monk: lose 2nd and 6th bonus monk feat, but gain Uncanny Dodge at level 2 and Improved at level 5. g. Wild Monk: Lose speed bonus/Slow fall/bonus feats/quiver palm/Abundant step/still mind. Gain Wild shape like a druid at lv 5, 8, 10, 4, 18, 20. Wild Monk could be cool, because though you might have low strength/dex/con, the animal you change into won't usually. But the Steadfast monk is sweet with DR. I think Hunting monk could be strongest similar to Ranger is facing rights foes, but Wild Monk in general should be great. 7) Skip Pals 8) Skip Rangers 9) Rogues: a. Wildernesss Rogue has different Special abilities chosen at 10, 13, etc.different skills, I perfer rogue but the Wildeness one can be useful in the open areas. I gues I'm a city guy. 10) Sorc: Battle Sorc is decent 11) Wizard, nah, skip 12) Artificier:Gains a alot of power at level 1. Better hd 1d6, 4 skills. light + meduim armor. 13) Hexblade is cool: Never read much of them. Why non good? 14) Skip Ssmurai, it isn't that good from complete warrior. Plus skipping a couple other bases. 15) Artistocart: You forget most important feature: Double starting money. If you are in a leel 2 adventure and Artistocrat gians he has 1800 gold instead of just 900. It is there only great part about them, there are rich when joining. I think it is a decent list.
Blaque 06-17-05, 09:12 AM	Actual Varients: Battle Sorcerer - I like these a lot. It gives the sorcerer a bi tmroe then "spontaneous wizerd" and a niche for an arcane meleer with some good offense built in ehre and there. The tradeoff of spells known is a bit of a kick between the legs though. I hav epondered on just making the "sorcerer" in games I run int he future actually battle sorcerers. It hink the HD, and BAB and the martial stuff make up for the lack of Wizerds feats that sorcerers don't get at all. Commando-Style Druids - There's a varient on Druids in Unearthed Arcana where you abandon Wild Shape, and all your armor proficiencies, in exchange for Monk-style movement, and AC bonus. I found this really cool personally, sinc ei topens some nifty tactical options, and you can do the whole idea I like to do with Druids now and again of "ultimate superpredator" and all that. Paladins of Tyrany/Slaughter/Freedom - These are just cool. Lawful Good is cool and all, but simply put, the idea of being able to try and work on a not-Lawful Good code of conduct is cool. It opens a lot more possible character concepts with the class that's just nice I think. Urban Ranger - Obvioulsy for your city chronicles, this is a cool class. I like how they do their Urban Tracking in how it uses things like Gather Information and all that. Very fun a class. Spelless Ranger - From Complete Warrior. I found htis relaly cool for the fact that when playing a Ranger, I don't feel like dealing with a spell list persomanlly. And htis lets me just ditch that, and have soem fun. I particulerly like how it gets increased movement. That has proven VERY effective in tactical situations, where i play a character who is very much a "run in, stab, retreat" sort. Granted, i should probalby be playing a scout, but htey weren't out at the time:) Featy Rogue - THere's a Rogue varient in UA that sacrafices Sneak Attacks for Bonus Feats like a fighter. This I found really cool because it adds a lot of variety to the class, and make sit so you don't have to be a sneaky stabby-sort. Mainly helps more social Rogues I suppose. New Classes: Warmage - Very cool I think. Now and again, you want to blow stuff up I think. And I like how limited they are in other areas pretty badly hurting them in the long run I found. I mean, sometimes, it'd be nic eto be able to cast Detect Magic:) Hexblade - I'm very fond of this class for some reason. Not all tha tpowerful though. I think that some things were weirdly done with them when compared to thing slike Paladins and Rangers, who just get some things better. Saves are a key one there. But ah well. Complete Arcane gives them quite anic ebuff though, I like dhtat. Especailly the whole Whirling Blady death:) I wish there were feats to augment the Hexblade's Curse in the way that the Warmage's Edge or Paladin's Smiting got buffed, even if it is soemthing like "Extra Curses". Shugenja - Not new, but pretty fun I think. My main gripe here is that I'm a very sub-par character compared to the other divine casters. Mainly because I'm about as able to defend myself playing one as a wizerd or srocerer is, but don't get fireball-type tuff nearly as early as the other lcasses do. I mean, hoenstly. Sometimes, you wish there was just a frigin' fireball. The fact that they didn't actually put ANY new spells for them in Complete Divine was also kind adumb of the writers i feel. Class Features: Spontaneous Domains - This is something I've pondred on before. Something suggested in UA was the idea that Clerics could cast their domain spells spontaneously, like they can do Inflicts or Heals now. One variant of this I found really cool is that htey do this isntead of those spells. As a result, choosing your Domains effects yoru character a ways more, especially since it snice that it make sit so you can't just fall back on being a healer on a stick. Umm, and stuff.
CaveDemon 06-19-05, 04:19 AM	Bumpity-Bump :bump: