Classes from the Complete Series [Archive] - Wizards Community

Classes from the Complete Series [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Edmon
08-04-05, 02:51 PM Hi; I'm looking for a new class to add to my new campaign setting, but am at a loss as to what to use. My main problem is that I can't think of a class concept that is 'different enough' to use - for example, swashbucklers are not far off figher/rogues, and samurai are just fighters that specialise in katana and wakizashi.

I only own one of the books in the Complete series (Complete Warrior), and did not feel like the classes in that book were right for the setting. Could someone please enlighten me to the classes in the other Complete books, their pros and cons, and personal opinions of them?

Thanks.
anubis_realm
08-04-05, 03:04 PM I own Complete Adventurer and Complete Arcane, and in Adveturer, the a really cool class named spellthief, a mixof the rouge and the arcane spellcasting,who can steal spell and spell-like abilities. Cheack it out here:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=1
Pei-Pe
08-04-05, 03:07 PM Well, most of those alternate classes rely heavily on campaign flavor.
On the surface, a samurai is just a fighter that restrictively focuses on the Katana and Wakisashi (though they should have done a ranger like progression where you pick Katana or Katana & Wakisashi), but when you look at the underlying aspects a Samurai is a member of the noble ruing class, they have in game responsibilities and consequences for their actions. A fighter is beholden only unto himself unless he chooses to swear fealty.
Same with all the oriental based classes.

A swashbuckler fits nicely into a mostly urban campaign concept, where the wilderness is that wild place, "out there beyond the wall" and the character wouldn't be much good there.

Honestly, most core reworks are okay, provided you have a campaign that supports it and take the time to properly acknowledge the resonsibilities of those classes.
When was the last time your cleric held services at the temple?
When did the Paladin last spend some free time helping to mend the granery at the temple compound or help with some chores at the orphanarium?

Perosnally I love the warmage, the Warlock, and the samurai though I miss iajitsu from the 3.0 supplement.
Jaid
08-04-05, 03:12 PM the warlock is probably the only one i have seen that i

a) liked
b) thought was actually a base class
c) was different enough to deserve a class on it's own

is warlock.

mostly it all depends on what you want... a lot of them really shouldn't be used in the same campaign as other classes.

for example, if you happen to want to play a more eastern themed game, Wu Jen, Sohei, Samurai, Ninja... these are all perfectly valid (provided you ignore the fact that they're not all from exactly the same culture, that is). however, IMO they probably shouldn't be used in the same game as the more standard classes.

spellthief, hexblade, and warlock are the only two that come to mind that are pretty different (then again... is favored soul in the complete books?). hexblade i don't know much about, it's kinda like a ranger/paladin except arcane instead of divine sort of deal, spellthief was previewed in an article on the wizards website iirc (in fact, you can find it here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=1)) and the warlock is kinda like a spellcaster with only a handfull of spells, but infinite use of them (and no, it isn't overpowered) and a handful of other nifty class features (probably the most flavourful of the arcane spellcasters i have seen, and certainly the one with the most reason to not just PrC out of it).
concjo
08-04-05, 03:14 PM the Scout out of the complete adventurer has been a fun on thus far. It's a nice mix of rogue/ranger without having to focus on a particular weapons style. You get a nice mix of abilities and a couple of bonus feats with great skills. I'm running an orc scout right now and he's been a blast.
Griff_Goodbeard
08-04-05, 03:14 PM By far my favorite new class is the scout from CV. It's basicaly like a wilderness rogue, who relies on battlefield mobility. If you use it check the errata, they added disable device to their class skill (though as far as I'm concerned they didn't need to).

edit-man I type slow. in the time it took me to respond three people got in before me. :D
Mercurius
08-04-05, 03:20 PM What kind of feel are you going for?

In Complete Divine you've got three:
Favored Soul - spontaneous divine caster who slowly takes on attributes of an outsider (energy resistances, wings, DR) and wields his deity's favoured weapon with great skill.
Shugenja - spontaneous elemental divine caster with certain elemental affinities and a semi-asian fluff
Spirit Shaman - Spontaneous Druid type who selects their "spells known" on a daily basis and gains abilities related to spirits.

In Complete Arcane there are:
Warlock - completely different "caster" who gains limited amounts of at will spell like abilities. A selfish caster in that they can't really boost allies, they can rain down a fair bit of death.
WarMage - spontaneous blaster who is nothing but a walking attack spell battery, with armor and weapon proficiencies to mix it up in combat
Wu Jen - Asian style wizard archetype. Focus on permanently metamagiced spells and a few other abilities, as well as different styles of spells, many of which have status anomoly effects.

In Complete Adventurer:
Ninja - monk/rogue hybrid who excells at attacking from surprise, but doesn't do so well in an up front fight. Gains special abilities that allow them to become ethereal or invisible, etc.
Scout - hit and run specialist who's special bonus abilities are based on movement and attacking
Spell Thief - spellcasting rogue who can leech magic from other spellcasters when he sneak attacks them.

Personally, I like most of the classes, though I haven't seen them in action enough to know if they're balanced or not. Personal favorites are the Swashbuckler (which is a significant departure from the standard fighter), Warlock, and Scout, though I am very fond of all the Complete Adventurer classes.
monkeywrench
08-04-05, 04:14 PM I personally like all of the expanded classes, minus the Oriental Adventures ones and the Spirit Shaman. Although I haven't looked at the Complete Adventurer ones in complete detail yet, the ninja does look cool
Nani?
08-04-05, 05:27 PM 1) I love the Spirit Shaman as an Animistic/Tribal priest and I think it is probably the best class in print that fits that pardigin. My Personal Favorite. I am currently playing a Tiefling Spirit Shaman and the idea of "what type" of spirits hang out with him is kind of disturbing and is great from a RP standpoint. The dual Stat spellcasting is a pain though.

2) I like the idea of Favored Soul as a "Joan of Arc" type character, one that is rare in the same way a Paladin is rare. Second Favorite.

3) Despise the Warlock with a great passion. It is a Sorcerer with a different, unneeded mechanic and a "built in" background for people who need every idea fed to them IMHO (Note: I go on the assumption Dragon blood is one of many possible "sources" of magical heritage for Sorcerer).

4) Swashbuckler: Pretty good, though a bit overpowered. Third Favorite.

5) Oriental Classes: Pretty good and I don't always use them as "oreintal" classes but rather as "exotic" spellcasters from far cultures.

6)Hex Blade:Another class I don't like on general principle but I think would make a great "unique" npc.

7) Combat Wizard: I like the Battle Sorcerer from UA much more.

Don't know the Complete Adventuerer classes well enough but I was least impressed with that book of all four. I think the quality in general was somewhat lower in the Complete Arcane and Adventurer.

All the Best,

Nani?
Nephlite
08-04-05, 08:38 PM Complete Adventurer is a great book.

Ninja aren't really monks; all they have similar is wisdom to AC (doesn't stack it says). They gain Poison use, Improved Poison use, They get Ki Points (monks don't have them), turn invisible, Sudden Strike (unlike Rogue can't do nonlethal sneak attack damage), and don't have to be lawful like Monks.

A Base class with Poison use is best part.
Alavard
08-06-05, 12:04 PM A few that I'd like to highlight (in no particular order, other than that my favourite comes first)

The favored soul would have to be my favourite out of the bunch. I prefer to use it as a divine caster that has had the abilities pushed onto him by a deity, perhaps not even knowing who that divine patron really is.

The scout comes really close to the top, however. This was a class I wanted for a long time - an outdoorsman that didn't have any bond to nature, but had the knowledge to use it to his martial advantage. The skirmish ability is also quite cool.

The spellthief also looks great. The problems with it, however, are the complexity of the class and the dependance of running into lots of casters.

The ninja - much more powerful than I originally thought. Loving the power of sneak attacks, I was disheartened by reading that the ninja's sudden strike can only be used when the opponent is denied their dex bonus, and not just when flanking. But since the ninja gains the ability to make himself invisible/ethereal for a bunch of rounds a day, he can grant himself some sneak attacks.

The Warlock - terrific concept, great flavour, neat abilities, decent damage, balanced. Thats really all I have to say about the warlock
Particle_Man
08-06-05, 12:38 PM 4) Swashbuckler: Pretty good, though a bit overpowered. Third Favorite.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Overpowered? That's the first time I have ever heard that from anyone.
Nephlite
08-06-05, 01:41 PM :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Overpowered? That's the first time I have ever heard that from anyone.
He means if you rolled stats not point buy it might be I think. I played one up to level 6, not overpowered with rolling I thought. I mean sure I did good damage, but my Ac was kinda poor (light armor).

I can't imagine a character with good Dex, Str, and Int with point buy that was overpowered. You'd be using up so much gold for stats that you'd hsave little left for other stuff.
Edmon
08-07-05, 03:32 PM Hmm...I like the sound of warlocks. I've got a new race that I've created (I'll post it on the races board at some point), which are similar to warforged in that they are "half-healed" by cure spells, and "fully-healed" by another kind of spell (in this case, inflict spells). If warlocks could cast inflict spells, I would strongly consider adding them to my campaign as a base class. So: can they cast inflict spells?!

One slight problem though: are warlocks evil? I don't really want an evil, or even non-good, player class; I prefer to reserve stuff like that as NPC prestige classes. (After all, the party is made up of "heroes", not villains :P)
jukar
08-07-05, 06:11 PM Hmm...I like the sound of warlocks. I've got a new race that I've created (I'll post it on the races board at some point), which are similar to warforged in that they are "half-healed" by cure spells, and "fully-healed" by another kind of spell (in this case, inflict spells). If warlocks could cast inflict spells, I would strongly consider adding them to my campaign as a base class. So: can they cast inflict spells?!

One slight problem though: are warlocks evil? I don't really want an evil, or even non-good, player class; I prefer to reserve stuff like that as NPC prestige classes. (After all, the party is made up of "heroes", not villains :P)

Sorry, warlocks don't "cast" at all. They have access to spell-like abilities called invocations.

Warlocks, while rich with evil flavor, are not always evil. They can be chaotic neutral or chaotic good, in addition to evil alignments.
Jerks
08-07-05, 11:16 PM I really like what they've done with the Warlock class. You get to play a potent magical character without having to track a whole bunch of different spells and effects. While I love playing wizards, and I'm pretty good at it, there are a lot of people that are turned off of playing wizards and sorcerers because of all of the choices you have to make and the fact that unlike a martial class you can easily tap all of your reserves early on.

The warlock allows for a centrally magical character that can kick butt all live long day. In fact, in my game I've eliminated the sorcerer class and added in the Warlock as a replacement.
Todd
08-08-05, 12:29 AM I really like what they've done with the Warlock class. You get to play a potent magical character without having to track a whole bunch of different spells and effects. While I love playing wizards, and I'm pretty good at it, there are a lot of people that are turned off of playing wizards and sorcerers because of all of the choices you have to make and the fact that unlike a martial class you can easily tap all of your reserves early on.

I'll second this. Of all the new classes the Warlock is easily my sentamental favorite & is very easy to play. I've seen countless folks freak out at the idea of unlimited casting but IMO they really did make it work well and keep it balanced. Only gripe is that I wish that they had done more on the "fey" angle for Warlocks. Seemed like all of the flavor text on the invocations were geared towards demonic influence.

I like the Warmage a lot too though it can't easily act as a party's pimary arcane caster. Lots of blasting & nothing else without work ... still it's fun to not have to worry about memorizing spells or even choosing the exact "right" ones the way a Sorcerer must.

The Scout is *fantastic*. It's easily second to the Warlock IMO. I've seen folks gripe about it covering ground that the Rogue and Ranger do but I see it as being quite seperate in both feel and mechanics.

I like the ideas behind the Favored Soul and Spirit Shaman but feel that the execution was lacking.

Not a big fan of the spellthief or any of the Complete Warrior core classes.

The Oriental classes are all OK (with the exception of the Samurai) but I just don't see them being used in most settings.
neilthrun
08-08-05, 12:48 AM Ive really liked all hexblade, swashbuckler, ninja, favored sould, and the warlock. The rest are mediocore to just down right lame.
Nani?
08-08-05, 09:41 AM He means if you rolled stats not point buy it might be I think. I played one up to level 6, not overpowered with rolling I thought. I mean sure I did good damage, but my Ac was kinda poor (light armor).

I can't imagine a character with good Dex, Str, and Int with point buy that was overpowered. You'd be using up so much gold for stats that you'd hsave little left for other stuff.

I'm used to rolling and I have one player playing a swashbuckler who seems to have "magical dice" and an ego the size of manhattan. As I think about it I wonder if my perception is fair.

I'm curious, I seem to be in a distinct minority for hateing the Warlock and my positive perceptions of the Spirit Shaman?

All the Best,

Nani?
jukar
08-08-05, 09:51 AM I'm used to rolling and I have one player playing a swashbuckler who seems to have "magical dice" and an ego the size of manhattan. As I think about it I wonder if my perception is fair.

I'm curious, I seem to be in a distinct minority for hateing the Warlock and my positive perceptions of the Spirit Shaman?

All the Best,

Nani?

No, you aren't. I find the warlock to have a mechanic that is interesting but would be boring to play after 10 minutes, and contrived in flavor. Meanwhile, I think the spirit shaman is very cool.
Fiery Avenger
08-08-05, 09:56 AM I adore the Complete Warrior: there's something about the Samurai that just makes it phenomenally interesting to me. I was not a fan of the 3.0 Oriental Adventures Samurai, as it was simply a fighter with a few flavorful feats.

I own the Complete Divine, and while the prestige classes are interesting, I'll stick to Cleric and Druid for Divine Base Classes.
Also, the Complete Adventurer's Spellthief, while intriguing, has not been a choice most of my players are interested in. On paper it works quite well, but whether or not it works in game is a different story.

The only Complete Book that I have little to no respect for is the Arcane. There's just something about the Warlock that I dislike. Maybe it's the fact that it's a class that makes non-casters even more obsolete. I've always been against the whole "Mages as Cannons" thing. About the only thing I use from Complete Arcane is the Green Star Adept, and that's just the idea as I don't have to do up stats for the NPC.

If I were to put anything as a new base class in my setting, it would probably be the Hexblade, as it combines what some may deem "underpowered" though I say "interesting" magic, and the capabilities of a fighter or a rogue.
jukar
08-08-05, 10:10 AM I adore the Complete Warrior: there's something about the Samurai that just makes it phenomenally interesting to me. I was not a fan of the 3.0 Oriental Adventures Samurai, as it was simply a fighter with a few flavorful feats.

I own the Complete Divine, and while the prestige classes are interesting, I'll stick to Cleric and Druid for Divine Base Classes.
Also, the Complete Adventurer's Spellthief, while intriguing, has not been a choice most of my players are interested in. On paper it works quite well, but whether or not it works in game is a different story.

The only Complete Book that I have little to no respect for is the Arcane. There's just something about the Warlock that I dislike. Maybe it's the fact that it's a class that makes non-casters even more obsolete. I've always been against the whole "Mages as Cannons" thing. About the only thing I use from Complete Arcane is the Green Star Adept, and that's just the idea as I don't have to do up stats for the NPC.

If I were to put anything as a new base class in my setting, it would probably be the Hexblade, as it combines what some may deem "underpowered" though I say "interesting" magic, and the capabilities of a fighter or a rogue.

Wow, someone who actually likes the samurai.

I have found that while spellthief is very interesting and does things no other class has ever done, it's power is directly proportionate to what you encounter, and most players don't find the idea of playing a character whose growth and effectiveness is entirely in the hands of the DM to be very appealing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Edmon 08-04-05, 02:51 PM	Hi; I'm looking for a new class to add to my new campaign setting, but am at a loss as to what to use. My main problem is that I can't think of a class concept that is 'different enough' to use - for example, swashbucklers are not far off figher/rogues, and samurai are just fighters that specialise in katana and wakizashi. I only own one of the books in the Complete series (Complete Warrior), and did not feel like the classes in that book were right for the setting. Could someone please enlighten me to the classes in the other Complete books, their pros and cons, and personal opinions of them? Thanks.
anubis_realm 08-04-05, 03:04 PM	I own Complete Adventurer and Complete Arcane, and in Adveturer, the a really cool class named spellthief, a mixof the rouge and the arcane spellcasting,who can steal spell and spell-like abilities. Cheack it out here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=1
Pei-Pe 08-04-05, 03:07 PM	Well, most of those alternate classes rely heavily on campaign flavor. On the surface, a samurai is just a fighter that restrictively focuses on the Katana and Wakisashi (though they should have done a ranger like progression where you pick Katana or Katana & Wakisashi), but when you look at the underlying aspects a Samurai is a member of the noble ruing class, they have in game responsibilities and consequences for their actions. A fighter is beholden only unto himself unless he chooses to swear fealty. Same with all the oriental based classes. A swashbuckler fits nicely into a mostly urban campaign concept, where the wilderness is that wild place, "out there beyond the wall" and the character wouldn't be much good there. Honestly, most core reworks are okay, provided you have a campaign that supports it and take the time to properly acknowledge the resonsibilities of those classes. When was the last time your cleric held services at the temple? When did the Paladin last spend some free time helping to mend the granery at the temple compound or help with some chores at the orphanarium? Perosnally I love the warmage, the Warlock, and the samurai though I miss iajitsu from the 3.0 supplement.
Jaid 08-04-05, 03:12 PM	the warlock is probably the only one i have seen that i a) liked b) thought was actually a base class c) was different enough to deserve a class on it's own is warlock. mostly it all depends on what you want... a lot of them really shouldn't be used in the same campaign as other classes. for example, if you happen to want to play a more eastern themed game, Wu Jen, Sohei, Samurai, Ninja... these are all perfectly valid (provided you ignore the fact that they're not all from exactly the same culture, that is). however, IMO they probably shouldn't be used in the same game as the more standard classes. spellthief, hexblade, and warlock are the only two that come to mind that are pretty different (then again... is favored soul in the complete books?). hexblade i don't know much about, it's kinda like a ranger/paladin except arcane instead of divine sort of deal, spellthief was previewed in an article on the wizards website iirc (in fact, you can find it here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=1)) and the warlock is kinda like a spellcaster with only a handfull of spells, but infinite use of them (and no, it isn't overpowered) and a handful of other nifty class features (probably the most flavourful of the arcane spellcasters i have seen, and certainly the one with the most reason to not just PrC out of it).
concjo 08-04-05, 03:14 PM	the Scout out of the complete adventurer has been a fun on thus far. It's a nice mix of rogue/ranger without having to focus on a particular weapons style. You get a nice mix of abilities and a couple of bonus feats with great skills. I'm running an orc scout right now and he's been a blast.
Griff_Goodbeard 08-04-05, 03:14 PM	By far my favorite new class is the scout from CV. It's basicaly like a wilderness rogue, who relies on battlefield mobility. If you use it check the errata, they added disable device to their class skill (though as far as I'm concerned they didn't need to). edit-man I type slow. in the time it took me to respond three people got in before me. :D
Mercurius 08-04-05, 03:20 PM	What kind of feel are you going for? In Complete Divine you've got three: Favored Soul - spontaneous divine caster who slowly takes on attributes of an outsider (energy resistances, wings, DR) and wields his deity's favoured weapon with great skill. Shugenja - spontaneous elemental divine caster with certain elemental affinities and a semi-asian fluff Spirit Shaman - Spontaneous Druid type who selects their "spells known" on a daily basis and gains abilities related to spirits. In Complete Arcane there are: Warlock - completely different "caster" who gains limited amounts of at will spell like abilities. A selfish caster in that they can't really boost allies, they can rain down a fair bit of death. WarMage - spontaneous blaster who is nothing but a walking attack spell battery, with armor and weapon proficiencies to mix it up in combat Wu Jen - Asian style wizard archetype. Focus on permanently metamagiced spells and a few other abilities, as well as different styles of spells, many of which have status anomoly effects. In Complete Adventurer: Ninja - monk/rogue hybrid who excells at attacking from surprise, but doesn't do so well in an up front fight. Gains special abilities that allow them to become ethereal or invisible, etc. Scout - hit and run specialist who's special bonus abilities are based on movement and attacking Spell Thief - spellcasting rogue who can leech magic from other spellcasters when he sneak attacks them. Personally, I like most of the classes, though I haven't seen them in action enough to know if they're balanced or not. Personal favorites are the Swashbuckler (which is a significant departure from the standard fighter), Warlock, and Scout, though I am very fond of all the Complete Adventurer classes.
monkeywrench 08-04-05, 04:14 PM	I personally like all of the expanded classes, minus the Oriental Adventures ones and the Spirit Shaman. Although I haven't looked at the Complete Adventurer ones in complete detail yet, the ninja does look cool
Nani? 08-04-05, 05:27 PM	1) I love the Spirit Shaman as an Animistic/Tribal priest and I think it is probably the best class in print that fits that pardigin. My Personal Favorite. I am currently playing a Tiefling Spirit Shaman and the idea of "what type" of spirits hang out with him is kind of disturbing and is great from a RP standpoint. The dual Stat spellcasting is a pain though. 2) I like the idea of Favored Soul as a "Joan of Arc" type character, one that is rare in the same way a Paladin is rare. Second Favorite. 3) Despise the Warlock with a great passion. It is a Sorcerer with a different, unneeded mechanic and a "built in" background for people who need every idea fed to them IMHO (Note: I go on the assumption Dragon blood is one of many possible "sources" of magical heritage for Sorcerer). 4) Swashbuckler: Pretty good, though a bit overpowered. Third Favorite. 5) Oriental Classes: Pretty good and I don't always use them as "oreintal" classes but rather as "exotic" spellcasters from far cultures. 6)Hex Blade:Another class I don't like on general principle but I think would make a great "unique" npc. 7) Combat Wizard: I like the Battle Sorcerer from UA much more. Don't know the Complete Adventuerer classes well enough but I was least impressed with that book of all four. I think the quality in general was somewhat lower in the Complete Arcane and Adventurer. All the Best, Nani?
Nephlite 08-04-05, 08:38 PM	Complete Adventurer is a great book. Ninja aren't really monks; all they have similar is wisdom to AC (doesn't stack it says). They gain Poison use, Improved Poison use, They get Ki Points (monks don't have them), turn invisible, Sudden Strike (unlike Rogue can't do nonlethal sneak attack damage), and don't have to be lawful like Monks. A Base class with Poison use is best part.
Alavard 08-06-05, 12:04 PM	A few that I'd like to highlight (in no particular order, other than that my favourite comes first) The favored soul would have to be my favourite out of the bunch. I prefer to use it as a divine caster that has had the abilities pushed onto him by a deity, perhaps not even knowing who that divine patron really is. The scout comes really close to the top, however. This was a class I wanted for a long time - an outdoorsman that didn't have any bond to nature, but had the knowledge to use it to his martial advantage. The skirmish ability is also quite cool. The spellthief also looks great. The problems with it, however, are the complexity of the class and the dependance of running into lots of casters. The ninja - much more powerful than I originally thought. Loving the power of sneak attacks, I was disheartened by reading that the ninja's sudden strike can only be used when the opponent is denied their dex bonus, and not just when flanking. But since the ninja gains the ability to make himself invisible/ethereal for a bunch of rounds a day, he can grant himself some sneak attacks. The Warlock - terrific concept, great flavour, neat abilities, decent damage, balanced. Thats really all I have to say about the warlock
Particle_Man 08-06-05, 12:38 PM	4) Swashbuckler: Pretty good, though a bit overpowered. Third Favorite. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: Overpowered? That's the first time I have ever heard that from anyone.
Nephlite 08-06-05, 01:41 PM	:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: Overpowered? That's the first time I have ever heard that from anyone. He means if you rolled stats not point buy it might be I think. I played one up to level 6, not overpowered with rolling I thought. I mean sure I did good damage, but my Ac was kinda poor (light armor). I can't imagine a character with good Dex, Str, and Int with point buy that was overpowered. You'd be using up so much gold for stats that you'd hsave little left for other stuff.
Edmon 08-07-05, 03:32 PM	Hmm...I like the sound of warlocks. I've got a new race that I've created (I'll post it on the races board at some point), which are similar to warforged in that they are "half-healed" by cure spells, and "fully-healed" by another kind of spell (in this case, inflict spells). If warlocks could cast inflict spells, I would strongly consider adding them to my campaign as a base class. So: can they cast inflict spells?! One slight problem though: are warlocks evil? I don't really want an evil, or even non-good, player class; I prefer to reserve stuff like that as NPC prestige classes. (After all, the party is made up of "heroes", not villains :P)
jukar 08-07-05, 06:11 PM	Hmm...I like the sound of warlocks. I've got a new race that I've created (I'll post it on the races board at some point), which are similar to warforged in that they are "half-healed" by cure spells, and "fully-healed" by another kind of spell (in this case, inflict spells). If warlocks could cast inflict spells, I would strongly consider adding them to my campaign as a base class. So: can they cast inflict spells?! One slight problem though: are warlocks evil? I don't really want an evil, or even non-good, player class; I prefer to reserve stuff like that as NPC prestige classes. (After all, the party is made up of "heroes", not villains :P) Sorry, warlocks don't "cast" at all. They have access to spell-like abilities called invocations. Warlocks, while rich with evil flavor, are not always evil. They can be chaotic neutral or chaotic good, in addition to evil alignments.
Jerks 08-07-05, 11:16 PM	I really like what they've done with the Warlock class. You get to play a potent magical character without having to track a whole bunch of different spells and effects. While I love playing wizards, and I'm pretty good at it, there are a lot of people that are turned off of playing wizards and sorcerers because of all of the choices you have to make and the fact that unlike a martial class you can easily tap all of your reserves early on. The warlock allows for a centrally magical character that can kick butt all live long day. In fact, in my game I've eliminated the sorcerer class and added in the Warlock as a replacement.
Todd 08-08-05, 12:29 AM	I really like what they've done with the Warlock class. You get to play a potent magical character without having to track a whole bunch of different spells and effects. While I love playing wizards, and I'm pretty good at it, there are a lot of people that are turned off of playing wizards and sorcerers because of all of the choices you have to make and the fact that unlike a martial class you can easily tap all of your reserves early on. I'll second this. Of all the new classes the Warlock is easily my sentamental favorite & is very easy to play. I've seen countless folks freak out at the idea of unlimited casting but IMO they really did make it work well and keep it balanced. Only gripe is that I wish that they had done more on the "fey" angle for Warlocks. Seemed like all of the flavor text on the invocations were geared towards demonic influence. I like the Warmage a lot too though it can't easily act as a party's pimary arcane caster. Lots of blasting & nothing else without work ... still it's fun to not have to worry about memorizing spells or even choosing the exact "right" ones the way a Sorcerer must. The Scout is fantastic. It's easily second to the Warlock IMO. I've seen folks gripe about it covering ground that the Rogue and Ranger do but I see it as being quite seperate in both feel and mechanics. I like the ideas behind the Favored Soul and Spirit Shaman but feel that the execution was lacking. Not a big fan of the spellthief or any of the Complete Warrior core classes. The Oriental classes are all OK (with the exception of the Samurai) but I just don't see them being used in most settings.
neilthrun 08-08-05, 12:48 AM	Ive really liked all hexblade, swashbuckler, ninja, favored sould, and the warlock. The rest are mediocore to just down right lame.
Nani? 08-08-05, 09:41 AM	He means if you rolled stats not point buy it might be I think. I played one up to level 6, not overpowered with rolling I thought. I mean sure I did good damage, but my Ac was kinda poor (light armor). I can't imagine a character with good Dex, Str, and Int with point buy that was overpowered. You'd be using up so much gold for stats that you'd hsave little left for other stuff. I'm used to rolling and I have one player playing a swashbuckler who seems to have "magical dice" and an ego the size of manhattan. As I think about it I wonder if my perception is fair. I'm curious, I seem to be in a distinct minority for hateing the Warlock and my positive perceptions of the Spirit Shaman? All the Best, Nani?
jukar 08-08-05, 09:51 AM	I'm used to rolling and I have one player playing a swashbuckler who seems to have "magical dice" and an ego the size of manhattan. As I think about it I wonder if my perception is fair. I'm curious, I seem to be in a distinct minority for hateing the Warlock and my positive perceptions of the Spirit Shaman? All the Best, Nani? No, you aren't. I find the warlock to have a mechanic that is interesting but would be boring to play after 10 minutes, and contrived in flavor. Meanwhile, I think the spirit shaman is very cool.
Fiery Avenger 08-08-05, 09:56 AM	I adore the Complete Warrior: there's something about the Samurai that just makes it phenomenally interesting to me. I was not a fan of the 3.0 Oriental Adventures Samurai, as it was simply a fighter with a few flavorful feats. I own the Complete Divine, and while the prestige classes are interesting, I'll stick to Cleric and Druid for Divine Base Classes. Also, the Complete Adventurer's Spellthief, while intriguing, has not been a choice most of my players are interested in. On paper it works quite well, but whether or not it works in game is a different story. The only Complete Book that I have little to no respect for is the Arcane. There's just something about the Warlock that I dislike. Maybe it's the fact that it's a class that makes non-casters even more obsolete. I've always been against the whole "Mages as Cannons" thing. About the only thing I use from Complete Arcane is the Green Star Adept, and that's just the idea as I don't have to do up stats for the NPC. If I were to put anything as a new base class in my setting, it would probably be the Hexblade, as it combines what some may deem "underpowered" though I say "interesting" magic, and the capabilities of a fighter or a rogue.
jukar 08-08-05, 10:10 AM	I adore the Complete Warrior: there's something about the Samurai that just makes it phenomenally interesting to me. I was not a fan of the 3.0 Oriental Adventures Samurai, as it was simply a fighter with a few flavorful feats. I own the Complete Divine, and while the prestige classes are interesting, I'll stick to Cleric and Druid for Divine Base Classes. Also, the Complete Adventurer's Spellthief, while intriguing, has not been a choice most of my players are interested in. On paper it works quite well, but whether or not it works in game is a different story. The only Complete Book that I have little to no respect for is the Arcane. There's just something about the Warlock that I dislike. Maybe it's the fact that it's a class that makes non-casters even more obsolete. I've always been against the whole "Mages as Cannons" thing. About the only thing I use from Complete Arcane is the Green Star Adept, and that's just the idea as I don't have to do up stats for the NPC. If I were to put anything as a new base class in my setting, it would probably be the Hexblade, as it combines what some may deem "underpowered" though I say "interesting" magic, and the capabilities of a fighter or a rogue. Wow, someone who actually likes the samurai. I have found that while spellthief is very interesting and does things no other class has ever done, it's power is directly proportionate to what you encounter, and most players don't find the idea of playing a character whose growth and effectiveness is entirely in the hands of the DM to be very appealing.