Post/Author/DateTime	Post
InfiniteZero 08-20-06, 11:42 PM	As a D&D player I think that some of the classes need work to be fixed. Some classes are underpowered, some classes are overpowered, obviously these must fixed, but how? I suggest that we all write about different classes that we think need to be fixed. So that in they can be errataed into sanity. So I will start out by saying that I think the Socerer class is underpowered and should be changed to be given D6 hit dice, 4+Int skills and the skills Diplomacy and Intimidate in class.
Szatany 08-20-06, 11:50 PM	I can suggest some fixes to classes to make them more balanced and interesting. Details in my signature (by class).
CVB 08-21-06, 12:44 AM	One fix (That I posted on the Fighter 2.0 thread) I have is letting the fighting PC types get their BAB as a damage bonus, that works like strength for melee, and a straight damage adder for ranged. Every class gains a scaling damage ability except the Fighting men, casters get spells that increase per level, and rogue types get a Sneak Attack that gets a few dice that goes up every two levels. And before someone brings up magic weapons are suppose to help, that is campaign specific and some do not have anything that spectacular. And let's face it, the fighting men are way too dependant on gear to make them effective.
InfiniteZero 08-24-06, 11:21 PM	Okay I really, really didnt mean to rip off the Spell Power from the Archmage. Lets give the archmage every 4 levels starting at 2nd. Come on it would be super cool and flavorful. I like it somebody call WotC we have a class: Sorcerer Class (New and Improved) d6 HD 4+ Int Skills and now Diplomacy, Gather Informatoin, and Intimidate are now in class. and every four levels starting at second Spell Power (for free). so +1 at 2nd, +2 at 6th, +3 at 10th, +4 at 14th, +5 at 18th. (This ability stacks with EVERYTHING, but if you go into a PrC you keep getting it.)
Pyke_Moonshadow 08-25-06, 07:55 AM	So that in they can be errataed into sanity. Are you suggesting that WotC pays attention and changes things as this thread dictates?
SunWukong 08-25-06, 11:13 AM	Just use Szatany's classes, they are incredible. Or, at least, use them for inspiration.
InfiniteZero 08-25-06, 01:19 PM	Yes I am actually suggesting that the posters of this thread be given supremacy. Just kidding, but is it too much to ask that Wotc take us seriously and consider our reasonable complaints and look to our suggestions for inspiration? Sorry to question the godlike credibility that people seem to give wizards. It is as if people think that just because they write the books they cant make mistakes.
mouse47 08-25-06, 01:35 PM	On the topic of everyone getting better except for fighting men.. The fact that they get a higher base attack bonus is how they deal more damage at higher levels. And there is no spell resistance or save against a sword and you can use it unlimited times per day. A wizard only gets so many spells to cast and they might not be the right ones, or in the case of a sorcerer he might not have the spell for the situation and if he uses up too many spells in one encounter he is rather useless later on when he runs out. A fighter gets all of those feats that let him do even more damage and very consistantly too. A fighter with two weapons gets more attacks still and a well built fighter can have a very optimal damage output AND a godly armour class. I really dont believe that fighters are as bad as people say they are especially in the early game. And if the DM is too stingy to allow any magic weapons at all then there should be no magic at all and therefore no casters. The rogue of course still gets her sneak attack but going into combat can leave the rogue defenseless against a powerfull foe. The sneak attack can also only be used in certan situations and many monsters are immune to the ability. A magic missile may seem great, theres no save and no miss chance but a longsword does more damage and you add strength to that damage and then there are no saves just armour class. A beefy fighter can get more out of a swing if he has higher strength bue a caster can not have the damage of his spells be more potent with a higher ability score that affects casting? That said the classes are by no means perfect but the fighter and other "fighting men" are not as horrible and helpless as some may lead one to believe. </rant-ish thing>
Ongorth 08-25-06, 02:03 PM	I've been working on this very topic for the last couple of weeks. I've been overhauling the wealth=power system and using this as an excuse to tweek the existing classes, using feedback from players on where they feel issues lie. My list consists of 50 core classes (no PrCs, as we only allow homebrewed PrCs which aren't relevant to this discussion). Here is a brief breakdown of what was tweeked and in which direction. For this list, please note these are only changes to the class and in many cases specific spells and feats were altered. You'll notice cleric is not listed, as there were no changes to the class, but in reality there were a lot of changes to the clerics spell and feat options. Fighter: Significant additions Bard: Minor additions Barbarian: Minor additions Paladin: Minor additions Ranger: Minor additions Monk: Moderate additions Soulbound: Minor Additions Truenamer: Minor changes (Slight Upgrade) Samurai: Complete rewrite (contains a mixture of class features, bonus feats and martial maneuvers) Swashbuckler: Complete rewrite Healer: Complete rewrite Hexblade: Moderate additions Soulknife: Significant additions Marshal: Minor additions Ninja: Minor additions, considering total rewrite Druid: Minor changes (Slight downgrade) Scout: Minor changes (Slight downgrade) Warblade: Minor changes (Slight downgrade) This is just based on players I know and what they tell me. We games that contain more difficulty per character per day in terms of EL and/or number of encounters. We also strongly control Cross Source Synergy, requiring group approval. This means that you can't just use something because it was printed in a book, you have to present your argument for it, partially if it involves combining mutilple sources. Lastly, we usually play with 5 person parties.
Averroes 08-25-06, 02:09 PM	I do agree that Swashbuckler needs a complete rewrite. Though I'm not sure where to start. I think for one I would want to make class skills 6 per lvl. and possible drop HD to D8. But I also feel the special abilites need to be changed. Possibly something like the monk as they can pick a couple different feats at different lvls. Like disarm and trip.
Ongorth 08-25-06, 02:16 PM	Basically, my Swashbuckler rewrite adds in most of the duelist features to the swashbuckler. The two classes are stylistically identical, so it worked great. Not every bonus is transfered exactly (elaborate parry is not), but most abilities of each class remains in tact. Most definately it is not overpowered and since I don't use PrCs, it isn't problematic either to port over the abilities.
Pyke_Moonshadow 08-25-06, 03:26 PM	Yes I am actually suggesting that the posters of this thread be given supremacy. Just kidding, but is it too much to ask that Wotc take us seriously and consider our reasonable complaints and look to our suggestions for inspiration? Sorry to question the godlike credibility that people seem to give wizards. It is as if people think that just because they write the books they cant make mistakes. I am not saying that they can't make mistakes. I also wasn't condeming this thread or its purpose and I apologize if that is how it sounded. I was asking to know if I should join the discussion on this thread. For people who just want to spitball an idea I don't tend to try and dissuade them too heavily. For people that want to change the system I pay attention and add my voice as necessary. Many of the non-core base classes do need work. The core classes though, I have found to be balanced well enough to not need tinkering.