Classes that WotC's designers weren't thinking when they created... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Classes that WotC's designers weren't thinking when they created... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Moryath
07-26-05, 02:42 PM After playing the Complete books for a while and going through everything, it's patently obvious that someone at WotC wasn't really thinking when they put together some of these classes... and not enough playtesting was done.

Seriously, there are at least TWO classes that need at least minor changes.

#1 - Favored Soul, aka "Divine Sorceror". 90% of this is okay.
However, the designers gave this DIVINE class the class skill of Knowledge: Arcana and left out Knowledge: Religion. Seriously, guys, is this errata fodder or what?

#2 - Warmage... did ANYONE pay attention when they were designing this thing? The spell list is fine and good... it opens up some workable options.

What bites here is the "advanced learning" skill, which is complete and utter nonsense. At 3rd and 6th level, the Warmage is allowed to add one Wizard spell to their list, provided it is (a) of a level they can currently cast and (b) an Evocation spell.

Did NOBODY pick up on the following facts:
(A) The only source (unless you are using old 3rd edition splatbooks) for Evocation spells of 0th or 1st level is the PHB.

(B) OF these spells, there is only ONE Evocation that the Warmage does not already have on his spell list: Tenser's Floating Disk.

Seriously, guys. How do you miss this stuff? Can we please get an Errata for these, somewhere?
beezly
07-26-05, 02:54 PM Unless you're playing RPGA, errata is unimportant. If it should've been, a good DM will be sure to acquiesce to simple stuff.
Torack
07-26-05, 03:04 PM Wow. I'm actually stunned.

I thought this was going to be another rant about how supposedly powerful some of the newer base classes were.

I say you deserve a round of applause for actually contributing something worthwhile.

Kudo's.
woozygremlin
07-26-05, 03:47 PM However, the designers gave this DIVINE class the class skill of Knowledge: Arcana and left out Knowledge: Religion. Seriously, guys, is this errata fodder or what?

The Marshal class from The Complete Miniature's Handbook (and a few prestige classes) don't have any type of knowledge specified on their skill lists.

Numerous class features aren't listed as being extraordinary, supernatural or spell-like.

And while it doesn't apply to classes several races haven't been given monster types (humanoid, ooze, etc.)
solbergb
07-26-05, 06:52 PM Actually why would a Favored Soul need to know about religion?

He's just the pet of his god. The God likes him. It isn't like a cleric where he had to learn about stuff, has to pray properly at a fixed time every day etc.

Although I don't see why Kn Arcana is on the list. He's got even less reason to know about that.
Bluebrush
07-26-05, 07:55 PM I think the favoured soul needs Knowledege religion for people who want to play someone with ties to the church.

In the same way that the rogue skill list supplies all the skills nescessary to play a con artist, an acrobat or a locksmith.
(Though irritatingly enough not a man who leaps through windows, lands on his trusty steed and rides off into the sunset, as Ride is not a Rogue class skill.)
GEEKAZOID
07-26-05, 07:57 PM Did NOBODY pick up on the following facts:
(A) The only source (unless you are using old 3rd edition splatbooks) for Evocation spells of 0th or 1st level is the PHB.
(B) OF these spells, there is only ONE Evocation that the Warmage does not already have on his spell list: Tenser's Floating Disk.
I believe they are allowing for spells NOT in the PHB that may pop up in a campaign or adventure, wether homebrew or published, WoTC or 3rd party.

This way no arguments about the RAW happen.
LarryLaffer
07-26-05, 08:30 PM On the warmage. For your information the planer handbook has a level 1 evocation in it that has proven very interesting for advanced learning. pg 100.
Moryath
07-27-05, 05:35 PM On the warmage. For your information the planer handbook has a level 1 evocation in it that has proven very interesting for advanced learning. pg 100.
All fine and good, IF you buy the book for that one spell.

But come on. Seriously. If they were going to say "pick one... but you have to be able to cast it and it has to be an evocation" then they should have included at LEAST two or three Evocations in the @#$@# book itself.

"We're planning for material to come out later" is a VERY sad way to go about designing classes, especially when you're expecting people to use these classes in RPGA-setup games.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Moryath 07-26-05, 02:42 PM	After playing the Complete books for a while and going through everything, it's patently obvious that someone at WotC wasn't really thinking when they put together some of these classes... and not enough playtesting was done. Seriously, there are at least TWO classes that need at least minor changes. #1 - Favored Soul, aka "Divine Sorceror". 90% of this is okay. However, the designers gave this DIVINE class the class skill of Knowledge: Arcana and left out Knowledge: Religion. Seriously, guys, is this errata fodder or what? #2 - Warmage... did ANYONE pay attention when they were designing this thing? The spell list is fine and good... it opens up some workable options. What bites here is the "advanced learning" skill, which is complete and utter nonsense. At 3rd and 6th level, the Warmage is allowed to add one Wizard spell to their list, provided it is (a) of a level they can currently cast and (b) an Evocation spell. Did NOBODY pick up on the following facts: (A) The only source (unless you are using old 3rd edition splatbooks) for Evocation spells of 0th or 1st level is the PHB. (B) OF these spells, there is only ONE Evocation that the Warmage does not already have on his spell list: Tenser's Floating Disk. Seriously, guys. How do you miss this stuff? Can we please get an Errata for these, somewhere?
beezly 07-26-05, 02:54 PM	Unless you're playing RPGA, errata is unimportant. If it should've been, a good DM will be sure to acquiesce to simple stuff.
Torack 07-26-05, 03:04 PM	Wow. I'm actually stunned. I thought this was going to be another rant about how supposedly powerful some of the newer base classes were. I say you deserve a round of applause for actually contributing something worthwhile. Kudo's.
woozygremlin 07-26-05, 03:47 PM	However, the designers gave this DIVINE class the class skill of Knowledge: Arcana and left out Knowledge: Religion. Seriously, guys, is this errata fodder or what? The Marshal class from The Complete Miniature's Handbook (and a few prestige classes) don't have any type of knowledge specified on their skill lists. Numerous class features aren't listed as being extraordinary, supernatural or spell-like. And while it doesn't apply to classes several races haven't been given monster types (humanoid, ooze, etc.)
solbergb 07-26-05, 06:52 PM	Actually why would a Favored Soul need to know about religion? He's just the pet of his god. The God likes him. It isn't like a cleric where he had to learn about stuff, has to pray properly at a fixed time every day etc. Although I don't see why Kn Arcana is on the list. He's got even less reason to know about that.
Bluebrush 07-26-05, 07:55 PM	I think the favoured soul needs Knowledege religion for people who want to play someone with ties to the church. In the same way that the rogue skill list supplies all the skills nescessary to play a con artist, an acrobat or a locksmith. (Though irritatingly enough not a man who leaps through windows, lands on his trusty steed and rides off into the sunset, as Ride is not a Rogue class skill.)
GEEKAZOID 07-26-05, 07:57 PM	Did NOBODY pick up on the following facts: (A) The only source (unless you are using old 3rd edition splatbooks) for Evocation spells of 0th or 1st level is the PHB. (B) OF these spells, there is only ONE Evocation that the Warmage does not already have on his spell list: Tenser's Floating Disk. I believe they are allowing for spells NOT in the PHB that may pop up in a campaign or adventure, wether homebrew or published, WoTC or 3rd party. This way no arguments about the RAW happen.
LarryLaffer 07-26-05, 08:30 PM	On the warmage. For your information the planer handbook has a level 1 evocation in it that has proven very interesting for advanced learning. pg 100.
Moryath 07-27-05, 05:35 PM	On the warmage. For your information the planer handbook has a level 1 evocation in it that has proven very interesting for advanced learning. pg 100. All fine and good, IF you buy the book for that one spell. But come on. Seriously. If they were going to say "pick one... but you have to be able to cast it and it has to be an evocation" then they should have included at LEAST two or three Evocations in the @#$@# book itself. "We're planning for material to come out later" is a VERY sad way to go about designing classes, especially when you're expecting people to use these classes in RPGA-setup games.