| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Tyler909-16-05, 06:23 PM | What are peoples opinions on clerics? |
| mrpopstar09-16-05, 06:36 PM | I generally like them. I think they are 'balanced'. I feel they offer a lot of playing opportunities. I believe that they are highly customizable. I enjoy that there are many options available to them. I like the concept of the class. I share an affinity with the class's closeness to religion. I have played many clerics. I am pleased that there is so much support for them in the rulebooks. |
| Raelifin09-16-05, 06:46 PM | I like them. I don't usually play one. I find they are hard to make "interesting" unless you make them non-good. I think a cleric is only as good as the pantheon of his world. I find that they are a little bit better than most classes. (Same tier as wizards and druids) |
| Cadfan09-16-05, 06:54 PM | Like most primary spellcasters, they are pretty powerful. They can be annoying to play when you have to act like a massive bandaid, but only if no one appreciates you. They are a very nice four level dip for a fighter, because then he can be his own bandaid, and have some divination spells and things to make him more interesting out of combat. And it fixes his will save. Take luck as a domain, and maybe protection. Take practiced spellcaster, for a level 4 caster, its like extending all of your spells for free. That's my personal favorite use for cleric. Who could say no to losing 2 feats, 1 point of base attack, 4 hp on average, (and needing to have a 14 wis) in order to get +4 will save, 2 domain abilities, 5 level 0 divine spells, 5 level 1 divine spells, and 4 level 2 divine spells? They're just so darn useful. |
| Osedox09-16-05, 06:57 PM | Clerics are Lame http://www.jinx.com/images/products/226bgBlue.jpg Just kidding Clerics Rule! they make the best BBEG's and are better than fighters at fighting (Divine Favor! Righteous Might!) and have better save or die spells than Wiz/Sor. |
| Tyler909-16-05, 07:08 PM | I know it is one of my favorite classes, because the spells they cast are good and they can hold there own in a fight. One of my friends hates them because he thinks there spells are weak and stupid. |
| Raelifin09-16-05, 07:20 PM | I know it is one of my favorite classes, because the spells they cast are good and they can hold there own in a fight. One of my friends hates them because he thinks there spells are weak and stupid. I'll bet you 2 to 1 that he never played 3.0 *shudder*. :twitch: |
| allenchan09-16-05, 07:25 PM | Second best core class in the game. They are extremely customizable and can represent whatever you want. You can have four clerics that cover the four "archetypes" easily. |
| Nephlite09-16-05, 07:33 PM | I like them They are overpowered (this is done so people will take bandaid roll I hear) They are decent if played by a newbie, but awesome if played by a veteran. I like how you don't have to choose a diety, just two domains. One of the seconmd best healers (Druids can summon unicorns about level 5 and beat them in healing with its help ) Played only one so far. Can fight better than some Fighters with spells. |
| Tyler909-16-05, 08:34 PM | I'll bet you 2 to 1 that he never played 3.0 *shudder*. :twitch: why do you shuder? |
| Tyler909-16-05, 08:36 PM | I like them They are overpowered (this is done so people will take bandaid roll I hear) They are decent if played by a newbie, but awesome if played by a veteran. I like how you don't have to choose a diety, just two domains. One of the seconmd best healers (Druids can summon unicorns about level 5 and beat them in healing with its help ) Played only one so far. Can fight better than some Fighters with spells. I agree to that they are over powered,.... but I like that. :P :D |
| Tyler909-16-05, 08:37 PM | Second best core class in the game. They are extremely customizable and can represent whatever you want. You can have four clerics that cover the four "archetypes" easily. What is your favorite class in the players hand book? |
| allenchan09-16-05, 08:43 PM | What is your favorite class in the players hand book? My favorite class is Rogue. However, I was referring the best class; which is Druid. ps: I think Raelifin was referring to your friend, not you. |
| Tyler909-16-05, 08:47 PM | thank you for pointing that out |
| Raelifin09-16-05, 09:01 PM | why do you shuder? I had a powergamer play a cleric of Kord in 3.0 that chose strength and luck as his domains and had a 20 con at first level. He made it up to about 16th level before we made the switch. Guess what his favorite spell was? (Hint: It was quite harmful) |
| Tyler909-16-05, 09:08 PM | I had a powergamer play a cleric of Kord in 3.0 that chose strength and luck as his domains and had a 20 con at first level. He made it up to about 16th level before we made the switch. Guess what his favorite spell was? (Hint: It was quite harmful) What spell was it? |
| Raelifin09-16-05, 10:02 PM | What spell was it? :rolleyes: Let me guess. You've never played 3.0 either? It was harm. /e puts on comic book guy hat. "Worst spell ever." |
| Venom of the Yuan Ti09-17-05, 05:33 AM | :rolleyes: Let me guess. You've never played 3.0 either? It was harm. /e puts on comic book guy hat. "Worst spell ever." Ah 3.0 harm. DM:Roll d4 PC:Why? DM:That is your remaining hp. |
| Tyler909-17-05, 09:14 AM | :rolleyes: Let me guess. You've never played 3.0 either? It was harm. /e puts on comic book guy hat. "Worst spell ever." I did play the 3.0. but not that long, I played it for like 1/2 years and 1 year. |
| LordofNightmares09-17-05, 10:06 AM | Maybe I am wierd, but to me its fun being the group's sub-tank (Megaman X reference, look it up), and walking anti-undead sniper rifle. In the current game I'm in, I play as a Lawful Good, 5th-level human Cleric of Flare Dragon Ceiphied (Bahamut, closest equivelant), with the Sun and Healing domains. Clerics allow for single minded zealous passion and an unswerving devotion to insane beliefs. Right and Wrong is different for a Cleric, the frame of reference changes for a Cleric, its not in refrence to societies' beliefs, but in reference the church. I started with Clerics back in Basic D&D back in the 80's, and when I moved to AD&D 2nd ED, I kept playing clerics. And into 3.x Clerics were the name of the game for me. I've played many other things, I've had a Wizard character for nearly 15 years now (played off and on), but in Pick up games, or whatever, I always find myself drawn to the cleric. As foir rules wise, the 3.5 classes are not nearly as unbalanced as the vast majority likes to bleieve... the 3.0 was painfully unbalanced, but in 3.5 the unbalancedness kinda forgets about how niche the roles are and the fact the the nonspellcasters can do it all day long, whereas the spellcasters are kinda spent after a few rounds of showing up the mundanes. |
| BladeMage_109-17-05, 12:56 PM | IMO, clerics are awesome in the FR setting. Since there are so many gods/godesses, players have a large custom selection of what thier cleric is and does. However none of my players play clerics :uh-huh: since they just are biased on them thinking all clerics run around with a mace and a necklace,and can make the Undead run away. I guess that's not very appealing to them. :rolleye2: |
| Tyler909-17-05, 05:57 PM | My favorite class is Rogue. However, I was referring the best class; which is Druid. ps: I think Raelifin was referring to your friend, not you. Where do you get that druid is the best class? |
| Osedox09-17-05, 06:45 PM | Where do you get that druid is the best class? Some person(people) have a point system where every class feature from BAB to Spells known ect. has a value. they added them all up for each cass and the druid has the highest rating(I think Fighters have the lowest). i personaly dont put too much stock into this though because every class has a purpose and party of just one or two classes would suck. |
| Tyler909-17-05, 09:50 PM | Some person(people) have a point system where every class feature from BAB to Spells known ect. has a value. they added them all up for each cass and the druid has the highest rating(I think Fighters have the lowest). i personaly dont put too much stock into this though because every class has a purpose and party of just one or two classes would suck. Where is this? |
| allenchan09-17-05, 10:19 PM | Some person(people) have a point system where every class feature from BAB to Spells known ect. has a value. they added them all up for each cass and the druid has the highest rating(I think Fighters have the lowest). i personaly dont put too much stock into this though because every class has a purpose and party of just one or two classes would suck. Except not. I guarentee that a party of 4 Druid would wipe the floor with most other groups of core classes. Again, except for maybe 4 clerics. |
| vegeta783509-18-05, 12:34 AM | what are the four basic cleric "types"? Sorry if that sounds dumb, but I can only think of the Healer and the Undead Killer. |
| LordofNightmares09-18-05, 01:25 AM | There are 4 major archetypes that characters fall into: Bruiser - Close combat spec; Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, Cleric, Monk Tank - Ranged attack spec; Wizard, Sorcerer, Ranger, Fighter Healer - Walking band-aid; Cleric, Druid, Paladin Support - Assistance and skills; Bard, Rogue, Ranger Depending on the skills, feats and domains a cleric can mimic the abilities of any of the other classes for the puproses of filling those roles. They are not as good as the original over a long ammount of time, but can surpass them for short times. Example: Cleric with the War and Strength domains is a better fighter than a fighter of the same level for as many castigns of Divine Favor, Magic Weapon and Bull's Stregnth, Aide, Bless and other similar buff spells. |
| Phantom Lord09-18-05, 02:12 AM | I like the cleric. It's a good solid class. I believe (call me crazy) that it is slightly abusable by a veteran player (understated) so I decided to 'fix' it. You can find it here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=422415) if you would like to have a peek. Just bear in mind that I am busy collecting all of my stuff into one massive archive (.pdf friendly!) and so it's a little out of date; to get the latest revision, you have to go to the latest post, and substitute that for places in the OP as indicated. |
| tompulsar09-18-05, 02:45 AM | I'm not to big of a fan of the cleric class personally, this is mostly because I generally like to have unlimited freedom when it comes to my in-character choices. Strict clerical dogma tends to muck that up for me and I won't even go into the DMs who pull that "Because your god sent you a vision and you have to fulfill his mission" crap. Maybe I've just had a few bad DMs but I have to say the cleric class is ruined to me for a long time. I would try out that "cleric without a god, only ideals" thing but another part of me kind of sees that as cheating... ...so I don't know what to do really, but for now no cleric for me. |
| Kursk09-18-05, 11:00 AM | What are peoples opinions on clerics? Can be intersting characters but few people actually role play them close to well. |
| Tyler909-18-05, 11:16 AM | Except not. I guarentee that a party of 4 Druid would wipe the floor with most other groups of core classes. Again, except for maybe 4 clerics. well it depends on how high level they are, if they are low level the druid kinda sucks, but at high levels they kick ass. |
| Tyler909-18-05, 11:19 AM | Can be intersting characters but few people actually role play them close to well. It depends on there alinement if they can roleplay them well. P.S Why did you steal my symbol ;) |
| Koga:The ninja trick09-18-05, 11:25 AM | Even by spellcaster standards they are too powerful. (Cloisterd Cleric was decent.) From a role-playing standpoint they are useless. (Dieties have mutiple servants, what makes clerics so special?) |
| Tyler909-18-05, 06:01 PM | Even by spellcaster standards they are too powerful. (Cloisterd Cleric was decent.) From a role-playing standpoint they are useless. (Dieties have mutiple servants, what makes clerics so special?) well for the heck of it I could repeat myself, "It depends on there alinement if they can roleplay them well." |
| LordHell09-18-05, 08:19 PM | There are 4 major archetypes that characters fall into: [QUOTE] Bruiser - Close combat spec; Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, Cleric, Monk Except he needs a few rounds to buff (ignoring Divine metamagic + persistant cheese), is dispellable, and AMF renders him useless. Sorry, id rather a barbarian as my Bruiser. Tank - Ranged attack spec; Wizard, Sorcerer, Ranger, Fighter Yes Clerics can make good ranged attack specs, but I'd rather a Fighter. Healer - Walking band-aid; Cleric, Druid, Paladin No one beats the Cleric at this. Support - Assistance and skills; Bard, Rogue, Ranger LOL no way. Id MUCH rather a Bard or Rogue in my party to fill this area than the Cleric. "Sorry guys, im out of find traps, let's rest for the 23423424 time" They are not as good as the original over a long ammount of time, but can surpass them for short times. This is the key part, and 'surpass' is highly debatable. Example: Cleric with the War and Strength domains is a better fighter than a fighter of the same level for as many castigns of Divine Favor, Magic Weapon and Bull's Stregnth, Aide, Bless and other similar buff spells. All those spells last under 10 minutes per level, meaning unless it's a Dungeon crawl, the Cleric will have to cast them at the start of combat. All this proves is that the Cleric is a better Dungeon crawling damage dealer than the Fighter, which isn't all the Fighter is good for, and isn't all that D&D is about. I think: Core Clerics are not broken, powerful yes. They are also boring classes to play. With one in the party 90% of his spells go into healing. They are very hard to kill - they are probably the 'toughest' class levels 1-20. They are easily broken with non-core material. They CAN fill the 4 rolls in a party - but certainly not 'easily'. |
| LordofNightmares09-18-05, 09:11 PM | I agree with your sentaments, LordHell, For the main roles, I prefer the originals as well, but as a long time cleric player I have "surpassed" the originals, but it requires perfect timing, knowing your spell lists and only lasts for a short time. As a warpriest I can beat out he fighter for about 2-3 combat encounters story day, but not all day long, and definatly not If I want to play my favorite role, the walking sub-tank. As for support I've never even tried to surpass, but given time, and more importnatly motivation (which I currently hae none), I could figure some situations where a cleric would be as useful as a Rogue. I feel a clercis true roll is that of Subtank and Social firgurehead, with backup CC support. Those are the 3 places where the Cleric shines, IMO. |
| LordHell09-18-05, 09:13 PM | I agree with your sentaments, LordHell, For the main roles, I prefer the originals as well, but as a long time cleric player I have "surpassed" the originals, but it requires perfect timing, knowing your spell lists and only lasts for a short time. As a warpriest I can beat out he fighter for about 2-3 combat encounters story day, but not all day long, and definatly not If I want to play my favorite role, the walking sub-tank. As for support I've never even tried to surpass, but given time, and more importnatly motivation (which I currently hae none), I could figure some situations where a cleric would be as useful as a Rogue. I feel a clercis true roll is that of Subtank and Social firgurehead, with backup CC support. Those are the 3 places where the Cleric shines, IMO. There is no argument that the two main Divine casters, Cleric and Druid, are some of the most versitile characters in the game. I apologize, but I thought you might have been one of those '4 Clerics 0wn j00' people. Maybe in some sort of Team Deathmatch Arena, but certainly not in a D&D game which is a mix of tricks, traps, roleplay, and combat. |
| allenchan09-18-05, 09:20 PM | (snip) If you're just talking about straight 20 core class builds then maybe. But multiclassing? A Rogue 2/Cleric 18 beats a straight Rogue 20 any day. And allowing PrC? Then its no contest, hands down divine casters can over every niche. |
| LordHell09-18-05, 09:23 PM | If you're just talking about straight 20 core class builds then maybe. Yes I am talking about core, everything else is optional and up to the DM's discretion. One could argue that a Cleric with Divine Power + Persistant spell is broken and they'd be right. Doesn't mean the Cleric is broken, it mean's Divine Power + Persistant Spell is broken. But multiclassing? A Rogue 2/Cleric 18 beats a straight Rogue 20 any day. Beats him at what exactly? 1v1 combat? And allowing PrC? Then its no contest, hands down divine casters can over every niche. PrCs? We're not comparing the Cleric anymore. Is there are PrC called 'Cleric!!!' somewhere that Im not aware of? Also, see above about PrC's being optional and up to a DM's discretion. |
| Amphetryon09-18-05, 09:50 PM | DISCLAIMER: I do not find the idea of Team Cleric or the WonderDruids especially appealing as a player or DM, except in very specific story-driven circumstances. Usually, 4+ Clerics as the only players leads to a 'we shall slay the evil undead in the name of goodness' style campaigns, in my experience. *Yawn.* Variety breeds conflict drives plots. Quod Errat Demonstratum. That said, use stats 17 15 13 12 11 9 and take the following team: 1. Gold Dwarf Cleric of Moradin. STR 15 DEX 7 CON 15 INT 11 WIS 17 CHA 12. Give him War and Law Domains. He becomes a more than decent party Tank, given decent armor and his Warhammer. His Stonecunning ability also lets him mimic some Rogue abilities. Once he gets Righteous Might, watch out. Put him in the Pious Templar PrC and he gets Weapon Specialization, as well as Mettle. 2. High Elf Cleric with the Elf and Good Domains. STR 12 DEX 17 CON 11 INT 9 WIS 17 CHA 15. Hand him a Longbow, and point him toward Funny Slaughter & Neon Samurai's Cleric Archer of Doom. This fills the Ranged Specialist role wonderfully - better than most other choices, honestly. His Elven senses also allow him to mimic some Rogue abilities. 3. Human Cleric of Mystra. STR 9 DEX 12 CON 13 INT 15 WIS 17 CHA 11. Cheater of Mystra, coming up. You want arcane power, you've got it in spades with this build. 4. Human Cleric of Pelor. STR 11 DEX 9 CON 12 INT 13 WIS 17 CHA 15. Radiant Servant of Pelor, for all your healing and undead-turning needs. You've got your basic party roles completely covered, even if you are light on the Trapmonkey schtick. A Wand of Knock and Detect Secret Doors will go a long way toward fixing that deficiency. |
| allenchan09-18-05, 10:00 PM | Yes I am talking about core, everything else is optional and up to the DM's discretion. One could argue that a Cleric with Divine Power + Persistant spell is broken and they'd be right. Doesn't mean the Cleric is broken, it mean's Divine Power + Persistant Spell is broken. Sorry, by "core" I meant "base". And everything is optional to a DM. "Sorry, folks. No gods in my campaign world, so no clerics!" Nobody was arguing clerics were broken, just better. Beats him at what exactly? 1v1 combat? No, at stealth, subterfuge, and trapfinding. That's what rogues do, last I checked. And UMD, but thats what the Magic domain is for. PrCs? We're not comparing the Cleric anymore. Is there are PrC called 'Cleric!!!' somewhere that Im not aware of? I said divine caster, not cleric, now didn't I? Yes, yes I did. :rolleyes: |
| pizzaboy09-18-05, 10:05 PM | if you take all of the coreclasses individually and send them into a random dungeon on their own to see who survives, i would bet all my money on the cleric. but guess what, d&d is a game for groups ;-) |
| Osedox09-18-05, 10:17 PM | I see a lot of people talking about what is the most powerful and how they wont do something because it makes their character weaker. Sure a party of Druids is going to be very Powerful but this is a game what happened to the fun? Even a party like the one mentioned above is still in essence a group without much diversity. A party of 4 different clerics with different stats is still just a party of 4 clerics. I am not saying that every party should have a Human Cleric, a Halfling Rogue, a Elf Wizard, and a Human Fighter, but that way every one in the party has a useful and unique roll to play. So sure the party cleric or Druid mayby the party "powerhouse" but a person shoudnt feel that they are a loser for playing a fighter or rogue, because another class can partialy usurp their position. After having said that I still love Clerics and will continue to play them in the future. I just wont play a cleric because they can do things that other people can do, I play clerics because they can do "Cleric stuff" good. By the way **** druids |
| LordHell09-18-05, 10:33 PM | Sorry, by "core" I meant "base". And everything is optional to a DM. "Sorry, folks. No gods in my campaign world, so no clerics!" Nobody was arguing clerics were broken, just better. That's exactly what I mean by core. Clerics are one of the better classes yes, provided there are two. One Cleric spends most of his spells healing the party, four Clerics in a party are gimped in anything outside a monster heavy Dungeon crawl. No, at stealth, subterfuge, and trapfinding. That's what rogues do, last I checked. And UMD, but thats what the Magic domain is for. Enlighten me how a core Rogue 2/Cleric18 is going to excel in all 'Rogue' areas over a traditional Rogue20. I said divine caster, not cleric, now didn't I? Yes, yes I did. :rolleyes: This topic is about the Cleric class. Not PrCs or Divine Casters. |
| Weapons Lord09-18-05, 11:34 PM | IMHO clerics are probably the best character class in the game. They're very easy to customize and when it comes to backing up the party in melee or putting them back together after the fight, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone else who does it better. |
| jennibert09-18-05, 11:52 PM | I have to say I am very much enjoying playing my cleric/fighter. She's less a spellcaster and more a fighter type, but our party needed a melee based fighter-type, so that works. And she doesn't typically use buffer spells, and not just because she's too low-level to have access to most of them. Most of her spells end up as healing spells. And I defy anyone who says clerics are "useless to roleplay." It all depends on the background you give them, and how you play them. I've been having a great time roleplaying my LN cleric's honorable tendencies, desire to become good, and low self-esteem. |
| mrpopstar09-19-05, 01:50 AM | :banghead: How does this always happen? Why does this always happen? Cleric Vs. Fighter, Wizard Vs. Sorcerer, Druid Vs. Party, Bard Vs. Rogue Why? Is this all we've amounted to as players, constantly bickering about things that are near impossible to quantify due to the infinite amount of variables in the equation? We're supposed to be the 'smarter' of the world's population of game players (thus the 'nerd' title we carry proudly). How did this thread get hijacked and then devolve into this? This argument is so old! :banghead: |
| LordofNightmares09-19-05, 01:56 AM | Do you want to know why its always "devolves" to bickering about a class, because its fun! Some of us actually enjoy the "discussion", reading other peoples points of views, giggling at the flamers who berate us for liking or not liking a class or those who berate us for liking the discussion proccess. We all have opinions, and most of us are mature enough to understnad that we are just having fun talking from out point of view. I really like clerics, Bob to the left does not, Keven over there thinks they are broken, and its fun sitting arround talking from our points of view. As for those rare few not mature enough to realize that we are jsut talking aobut this because we enjoy doing it, well they are funny to laugh at. Oh, and Jennibert, I too enjoy the morale ambiguety of honor, and how it applies to Clerics and Paladins. ^-^ |
| mrpopstar09-19-05, 02:00 AM | Always happy to oblige by lending myself out for a good chuckle. |
| allenchan09-19-05, 02:05 AM | How does this always happen? Why does this always happen? It goes a little something like this: Step 1: Someone asks opinions of [class] Step 2: People say how good/bad [class] Step 3: People who like/dislike [class] respond, normally because of flavor. Step 4: People from Step 2 try to convince/explain to the People from Step 3 why they're wrong (if conflicting). Step 5: People from Step 3 disagree. Step 6: Repeat starting at Step 4. Therefore, if people didn't ask opinions, which are subjective to begin with, arguing about subjective things wouldn't ensue. BUT, that wouldn't make for a very good forum, since forums are supposed to be open discussions and voicing ideas, right? |
| mrpopstar09-19-05, 02:24 AM | LordofNightmares: I would like to point out that I was coming from a place of frustration when I submitted those comments (thus the 'I'm so frustrated I'm banging my head against the wall' emoticon) and I would appreciate it if you would refrain from passing judgement on me. Your implication that I was 'flaming' is rather unfounded seeing as how I merely asked a few questions and then shared my own thoughts on the discussion (expression; something you also enjoy the freedom of). Your defensiveness says a lot about you, and I would like to share that it is a laughable matter in its own right that you indirectly called me names and then commented on my lack of maturity. allenchan: forums are supposed to be open discussions and voicing ideas, right?I never said anything that would suggest I didn't think this, I just feel it rather unfair to the thread originator (who asked something very specific), since this same discussion has taken place in a thousand other threads and it effectively steers the entire conversation off topic (let this very post serve as evidence). How do you get 'my X can beat your Z because Z blows', from 'What are people's opinions on Cleric's'? That's all I'm asking. |
| LordHell09-19-05, 02:39 AM | LordofNightmares: I would like to point out that I was coming from a place of frustration when I submitted those comments (thus the 'I'm so frustrated I'm banging my head against the wall' emoticon) and I would appreciate it if you would refrain from passing judgement on me. Your implication that I was 'flaming' is rather unfounded seeing as how I merely asked a few questions and then shared my own thoughts on the discussion (expression; something you also enjoy the freedom of). Your defensiveness says a lot about you, and I would like to share that it is a laughable matter in its own right that you indirectly called me names and then commented on my lack of maturity. What the hell is this? LordofNightmares never implied any of the above in his post, at least, I never got that. If other posters in this topic feel the same way as you do, Ill happily step aside, but I find that if anything in this topic is being overly defensive and quite frankly flame bait - THIS post is it. |
| Karalyn the Sellsword09-19-05, 03:49 AM | Don't like how Clerics are handled in D&D, prefer Shugenja's and Favoured Souls and Shamans and Spirit Shamans, i.e. all the others do it better. |
| Quirriff09-19-05, 04:05 AM | Like any class a Cleric can be abused. However the Cleric has a support role. They assist in combat; but they arn't better than fighters, they play a support role in melee combat, and their ranged combat is crap. Their spells are supportive: (Bless; Aid, Protection From Evil), the various cureing, and healing spells They can assist the infiltrators partially, but wizards are better at that. But the Cleric often is taken for granted by the other characters, who get the glory, Fighters fight the tough fights, Rogues do the important solo missions the others rely on, Wizards eliminate armies with a single spell. Clerics.... heal the rest afterwoods,.... not very glorious is it? |
| LordofNightmares09-19-05, 05:24 AM | Mrpopstar, there was no intended insult to you directly, but if one walks away with a post of mine/conversation with me feeling insulted, well, I'm sorry. However I also beleive that if one is insulted by an opinion, they deserve the feelings that they generated within themselves. |
| mrpopstar09-19-05, 11:20 AM | LordofNightmares: there was no intended insult to you directlyThank you for stating that. if one walks away with a post of mine/conversation with me feeling insulted, well, I'm sorry.In all honesty I find it difficult to be insulted over a computer while discussing a game (especially on the basis of a negative opinion), but I admit that I misinterpreted your intent with that post. We have discussed a handful of things with each other (maturely, respectfully, insightfully), in various threads, and I was rather disappointed in what I inferred from your submission. I also apologize. |
| Blackguard100109-19-05, 12:30 PM | Personally I think clerics are very good in terms of both versatality(sp?) and power. They can heal,buff, cast both offensive and utility spells. Turn undead is incredibly useful at destroying or controlling undead creatures. They're also powerful melee combatants especially after buffing up themselves with a couple of spells. Indeed an excellent class unlike thier JRPG console counterparts. Healer type characters are basically reduced to cute female characters with no armor and a staff who are only skilled at healing but weak as newborns ex.(white mages). Quite sad when you think about it. |
| LordofNightmares09-19-05, 01:00 PM | Actaully the White Mmage build from JRPG is a quality clerical Archtype, best represented in D&D with a Cleric with the Healing and Protection domains, and uses rod (light mace), cane(club) or staff, and wears the ligther armos for both versitility and speed. I've made some clerical Arctype recommended build guidelines, These are not letter of the law thigns that get imposed on the players, but are small helpful tool to let new to cleric players have some direction with their character creation. This only includes stuff from the PHb. White Mage Align: Non Evil Weapon: rod, cane or staff Armor: Chain short, Breast Plate Domains: Healing and one of Alignment, Magic, Protection or Sun Skills: Heal, concentration, Spellcraft Feats: Combat Casting, Skill focus (Healing), Self Sufficient, Maximise Spell Viable and fun to play IMO. I have more like that for: War Priest, Death Priest, Sage, Nature Priest, Ship's Chaplain (Pirate), Summoner, Barbarian Shaman, Forge Priest, Gambler Priest and Crusading Priest (generic adventurer cleric) I'll post the rest if anyone askes. |
| coolhand3709-19-05, 03:00 PM | I'm not to big of a fan of the cleric class personally, this is mostly because I generally like to have unlimited freedom when it comes to my in-character choices. Strict clerical dogma tends to muck that up for me and I won't even go into the DMs who pull that "Because your god sent you a vision and you have to fulfill his mission" crap. Maybe I've just had a few bad DMs but I have to say the cleric class is ruined to me for a long time. I would try out that "cleric without a god, only ideals" thing but another part of me kind of sees that as cheating... ...so I don't know what to do really, but for now no cleric for me. I'm currently playing a Gnome cleric of Garl Glittergold, and apart from being an extremely fun character to roleplay, it's virtually immune to strict clerical dogma. How strict can your god be when he's just as interested in screwing around and playing pranks on people as you are? PS - When my party's dumb-but-strong half-orc gets uppity with me, or is about to spew out some critical information that could compromise what we are trying to do, the gnome's built-in dancing lights ability comes in very handy as a distraction. |
| Bruunwald09-19-05, 03:18 PM | I actually enjoy playing clerics. It's funny to me that in the circles we play in, the other players were always griping about how they didn't want clerics, for all the reasons listed in this thread. But then I'd play one, and suddenly everyone was deferring to me. I was the utility guy and the leader, and could hold my own in battle quite easily. So what was not to like? I don't know what they were thinking. Either it sucks or it rules. They said it sucks, but obviously, I ruled. |
| Tyler909-19-05, 05:17 PM | :banghead: How does this always happen? Why does this always happen? Cleric Vs. Fighter, Wizard Vs. Sorcerer, Druid Vs. Party, Bard Vs. Rogue Why? Is this all we've amounted to as players, constantly bickering about things that are near impossible to quantify due to the infinite amount of variables in the equation? We're supposed to be the 'smarter' of the world's population of game players (thus the 'nerd' title we carry proudly). How did this thread get hijacked and then devolve into this? This argument is so old! :banghead: Why is that so bad, if this realy ticks you off so bad then mabie you should not pay attintion to them. |
| Shotgun_badger09-19-05, 11:14 PM | I like them, they arent gamebreakers, though I don't think any classes are, despite other threads here, and I had a good time roleplaying my redeemed criminal cleric of Heronious(sp?). Like the others have said from a pure unique to roleplay standpoint, the evil clerics are ALWAYS better, I mean if I want a goody goody god servent, I'd play a Pallie, I get a free mount too. |
| Tyler909-20-05, 05:01 PM | I like them, they arent gamebreakers, though I don't think any classes are, despite other threads here, and I had a good time roleplaying my redeemed criminal cleric of Heronious(sp?). Like the others have said from a pure unique to roleplay standpoint, the evil clerics are ALWAYS better, I mean if I want a goody goody god servent, I'd play a Pallie, I get a free mount too. In the respects of damage wise, evil clerics are better, but for helping the party out then good clerics are better, thus I like good clerics better |
| Shotgun_badger09-20-05, 09:42 PM | In the respects of damage wise, evil clerics are better, but for helping the party out then good clerics are better, thus I like good clerics better True, them evil spells are rough on NPCs but I always thought of cleric as the healer role, so I vote good on that too. |
| Tyler909-20-05, 10:28 PM | How are they rough on npc's? |
| Shotgun_badger09-20-05, 11:23 PM | I just ment that evil clerics' spells focus more on damage, pain, or fear, then the healing of good clerics. |
| LordofNightmares09-21-05, 03:04 AM | Hmm, well since the spells without alignment descriptors are usable by all clerics, just becuase evil clerics prefer cuase fear and inflict light wounds, a good cleric can do that, its jsut they have to be very careful on how they use them. |
| Elucidus09-21-05, 10:24 AM | I am usually a cleric. But I am always a different kind of cleric. Clerics offer an incredible amount of versatility. My last cleric was a Cleric of Mystra who focused on duplicating arcane magics with his divine abilities. Anyspell and Greater Anyspell are pretty awesome spells. He was based ont he cloistered cleric though, he was still great fun to play. The Cleric I am playing right now is the first typical cleric I have played in 3.5. But he doesn't just heal and turn, he specializes in healing and turning. He is a radiant servant and that saves many of his spells for things other than healing. He is fun to RP, even though his personality is pretty neutral. He has an affinity for fire as well, better to cleanse the undead pukes and other evil turds. All of my cleric characters I play specialize in one thing or another based on their personality. It makes them fun and each is unique in capabilities and power. |
| Tyler909-21-05, 05:12 PM | Hmm, well since the spells without alignment descriptors are usable by all clerics, just becuase evil clerics prefer cuase fear and inflict light wounds, a good cleric can do that, its jsut they have to be very careful on how they use them. True, but it would be like putting a bottle of beer in front of a recovering alcoholic, he could take. |
| torken09-21-05, 06:34 PM | I like clerics they are good strong classes, All there spells rock! and they can holld there own in a battle. |
| LordofNightmares09-21-05, 08:52 PM | True, but it would be like putting a bottle of beer in front of a recovering alcoholic, he could take. Not really, for a faithful cleric, knowing exactly which situation each spell is useful and allowed within the church for. A Cleric Of HEironeous knows ecactly when a Inflict Light Wound and Cause Fear are called for, and using them out of turn is not the same temptation of placing a bottle of beer infront of a recovering alcaholic. |
| Tyler909-22-05, 05:57 PM | Not really, for a faithful cleric, knowing exactly which situation each spell is useful and allowed within the church for. A Cleric Of HEironeous knows ecactly when a Inflict Light Wound and Cause Fear are called for, and using them out of turn is not the same temptation of placing a bottle of beer infront of a recovering alcaholic. But the cleric could do it, but he chooses not to. |
| Foxnet09-22-05, 06:30 PM | mine was a st. cuthburt guy with strength and Destruction Domains smite with that strength thing and Righteous Might and/or Divine Power. omg nothing could hurt me with all my healing spells :D |
| Tyler909-23-05, 03:58 PM | mine was a st. cuthburt guy with strength and Destruction Domains smite with that strength thing and Righteous Might and/or Divine Power. omg nothing could hurt me with all my healing spells :D What do you mean by "Righteous Might and/or Divine Power."? |