Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kotiniemi 11-26-05, 04:13 AM	Greetings everyone, one of my players, playing an evil cleric, brought up a couple questions about stacking that I honestly don't know how to answer and weren't able to find any clues. Mostly these were brought up due to Libris Mortis; Undead turning resistance: Do the feats from Libris Mortis stack, let's say Bolster Resistance and Necromantic Presence? Thus an undead created with Corpsecrafter/Bolster Resistance in the presence (within 60') of the cleric that created them; does the undead get +4 or +8 levels to turn resistance. Furthermore, does this bonus stack with the possible innate resistance of the undead (for example Vampire). Second question: Stacking the aforementioned with Desecrate, for these purposes the basic benefits (not the altar/shrine ones) suffice. The penalty is applied to the turning check of the good divine caster, not the actual turn resistance of the undead? Thus they would seem to stack. Last but not least, the final question: Are the undead with higher turn resistance treated as of higher Hit Dice for the purposes of the total amount of undead turned with a single check or just harder to turn for the purposes of determining the most powerful undead the cleric can turn? Simply, is a 1HD skeleton at turn resistance +4 either: a) treated as 5HD undead for the purposes of determining the most powerful undead the turn attempt may succeed against or b) treated as 5HD undead for the purpose of determining the highest HD undead affected and as a 5HD undead against checks determining the total amount of HD affected with the turning check. Any insights appreciated, RAW or commonly accepted, no house rulings please. Kindest Regards, Niko
Gnarl 11-26-05, 05:10 AM	Good questions :D I believe unnamed bonus stack with each other, provided they don't come from the same source. So I would assume they stack. My point is, if you it had been worded, a +4 enhancement bonus to turning resistance for both bloster resistance and necromantic presence, then they would not stack. All in all, you're the DM, if you don't like that answer, make up your own. Concerning the turn resistance. Turn Resistance (Ex): A creature with this special quality (usually an undead) is less easily affected by clerics or paladins. When resolving a turn, rebuke, command, or bolster attempt, add the indicated number to the creature’s Hit Dice total. It seems clear that it's only when resolving a turn check. So a 1 HD skelly counts as 1 HD even if he has turn resistance +4. I hope this helps.
Kotiniemi 11-27-05, 05:50 AM	Thanks for taking the time to reply. With a more careful look into the matter, they would as you suggested - stack. While I personally love tinkering with the rules, I try my best to avoid tinkering with too many since some of the players will not keep up with modified rules (suggesting reading 5+ books thoroughly is already pushing their timetables). Thus with two feats we have minor undead that are very difficult to turn and major undead that are next to impossible to turn at levels similar to those of the players - unless of course, the turnings are made by similarly dedicated undead bane (buffed up character). Now to a silly issue, a priest with corpsecrafter and bolster resistance creates (via Create Undead or Create Greater Undead, PHB 3.5, p215) a bunch of undead, that with their added undead resistance are next to impossible to rebuke by himself, a line of thought inspired by the exact wording of Create Undead: You may create less powerful undead than your level would allow if you choose. For example, at 16.th level you could decide to create ghoul or ghast instead of a mummy. Doing this may be a good idea, because undead created are not automatically under the control of their animator. Hmm... Maybe a place for houseruling of the character being able to bypass the resistance generated by his feats, even though they would apply to others. : Niko
Gnarl 11-27-05, 07:02 AM	Luckly, necromantic presence only applies to critters you control. So your undeads have a +4 turn resistance before control, +8 afterwards. It might be easier on the cleric. I hope you won't mind if I ask a question concerning turn undead. Is the turn resistance taken in account when determining whether you can control an undead or not (for example, does it take a 18th level cleric to destroy your friend's skellies)? I would assume that no, for reasons already mentioned previously, but I wouldn't mind having another advice on the topic.
Kotiniemi 11-27-05, 07:55 AM	In my opinion, absolutely yes. Except where otherwise noted, I feel that all the modifiers work both ways. It almost balances out with the feats from Libris Mortis giving a slight edge to undeads/evil clerics, but should the cleric be heavily into undead turning - the good (turning) will prevail through the damage caused when the turn resistance is surpassed. The reasoning being, that in addition to the feats from Libris Mortis to improving the undead and the evil cleric, feats from Complete Divine and especially those that improve the character/caster level of the good cleric for the purposes of undead turning cause more permanent damage when fully destroying the undead. Also respectively, spells like Owl's Wisdom benefit good clerics more, granting increased power in turning as well as additional 2 turning attemps as compared to the evil cleric that really can't use turn undead to control more undead than there are available. Thanks for your replies! Regards, Niko