Cleric (healing) alternative? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cleric (healing) alternative? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gunz
07-08-07, 04:31 PM Situation: gestalt characters (2), both of a rather shady organization of assassins, thieves and schemers (wooooh :p). One of the characters will be an Engetsu Shinobi//Psion (telepath), the other is at the moment a Swordsage//Cleric. However, cleric was tacked on, because, well, we're new and we need healing and such :) It just doesn't fit flavorwise. They're Lawful Evil (they promised me (DM) to behave :D).

The player who has the cleric is kind of struggling because it just doesn't work. They don't really worship gods, he doesn't really give a rat's ass for undead, etc... Cleric just doesn't cut it. We already looked to Shugenja as an alternative, however the spell selection seems REALLY limited and the class is rather bland (not so much a problem with gestalt, but still...). So, does anyone know any other alternatives to a Cleric that gives the party Your Essential Healing Spells And Maybe Some Buffs (TM) and fits flavorwise? Custom classes are allowed, as long as they're not ridiculous.

Thank you!
Rowan_Whispercloak
07-08-07, 04:40 PM If you have the OA handbook and can get the dragon magazine update then the shaman call mght be what are looking for.
Gunz
07-08-07, 04:43 PM If you have the OA handbook
Check :)
and can get the dragon magazine update
Nope :(
then the shaman call mght be what are looking for.

What's that Dragon update about then?
Tolby
07-08-07, 04:48 PM Any class with UMD can help out alot here. Use Wands of Vigor for out of combat healing and then maybe scrolls for in combat healing.
Endarrion
07-08-07, 04:53 PM Ironically enough, I will be playing a swordsage in a gestalt (its a solo campaign actually) campaign as well.

My character is a good guy who travels around helping people. I wanted him to be able to heal in some fashion (other than just the heal skill) but did not want to gestalt.

So I (with DM permission of course) gave my swordsage the paladin's lay on hands ability. Presto.

To help balance him without gestalting, I gave him a full BAB and a bonus feat at each "dead" level.
Gunz
07-08-07, 05:06 PM That's a great idea! Still, he'll miss some of the supporting power a cleric has but it's viable.

It's largely a flavor problem, so maybe I'll post something in the Char Development forums for ideas on how a "cleric" would gain spells if he didn't worship a god.
UnknownCorrespondent
07-08-07, 07:55 PM Since the character is evil, would Ur-Priest help? PrC from CAr and BoVD, requires Evil alignment, 2 +3 base saves, a handfull of skills w/ 5-8 ranks, 2 feats, and no ability to cast divine magic. You get a limited number of cleric spells/day, essentially gaining access to a new spell level for each class level you gain. You don't get domains or spontaneous casting, but at higher levels you gain Divine Spell Resistance, the ability to sacrifice several lower level spell slots for one higher one, and ultimately Steal Spell-Like Ability, allowing you to take the SLA of a nearby creature. The class is for someone who is so contemptuous of the gods that he has learned to steal their spells without worshipping them.

This won't help if you are starting from 1st, but I'm just throwing in my 2 cp.
Salla
07-08-07, 07:57 PM Firstly, clerics don't have to have gods, they just need to believe fervently in a cause. Gestalting a Swordsage with a Cleric, domains Fire and Celerity (or Fire and War) seems like an easy thematic link.
JulesCARV
07-08-07, 08:30 PM Since the other side is swordsage, I assume you want a wisdom-based caster. That means that bards, egoists, archivists, etc, aren't all that useful.

One possibility is to be some sort of rogue/chameleon (http://boards1.wizards.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp%3Fx%3Ddnd/iw/20041210b). Another possibility, homebrew, is planar mediumship (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=816375), some rules I came up with that allows clerics who have neither a religion nor a cause -- or at least whose magical powers are not dependent on whatever causes or religions they do adhere to. (Off-topic: I'm vaguely irritated about the idea of treating following a cause as an easy alternative to a religion -- having a cause isn't appropriate for all character concepts any more than having a religion is, and causes have demands and roleplaying implications of their own.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gunz 07-08-07, 04:31 PM	Situation: gestalt characters (2), both of a rather shady organization of assassins, thieves and schemers (wooooh :p). One of the characters will be an Engetsu Shinobi//Psion (telepath), the other is at the moment a Swordsage//Cleric. However, cleric was tacked on, because, well, we're new and we need healing and such :) It just doesn't fit flavorwise. They're Lawful Evil (they promised me (DM) to behave :D). The player who has the cleric is kind of struggling because it just doesn't work. They don't really worship gods, he doesn't really give a rat's ass for undead, etc... Cleric just doesn't cut it. We already looked to Shugenja as an alternative, however the spell selection seems REALLY limited and the class is rather bland (not so much a problem with gestalt, but still...). So, does anyone know any other alternatives to a Cleric that gives the party Your Essential Healing Spells And Maybe Some Buffs (TM) and fits flavorwise? Custom classes are allowed, as long as they're not ridiculous. Thank you!
Rowan_Whispercloak 07-08-07, 04:40 PM	If you have the OA handbook and can get the dragon magazine update then the shaman call mght be what are looking for.
Gunz 07-08-07, 04:43 PM	If you have the OA handbook Check :) and can get the dragon magazine update Nope :( then the shaman call mght be what are looking for. What's that Dragon update about then?
Tolby 07-08-07, 04:48 PM	Any class with UMD can help out alot here. Use Wands of Vigor for out of combat healing and then maybe scrolls for in combat healing.
Endarrion 07-08-07, 04:53 PM	Ironically enough, I will be playing a swordsage in a gestalt (its a solo campaign actually) campaign as well. My character is a good guy who travels around helping people. I wanted him to be able to heal in some fashion (other than just the heal skill) but did not want to gestalt. So I (with DM permission of course) gave my swordsage the paladin's lay on hands ability. Presto. To help balance him without gestalting, I gave him a full BAB and a bonus feat at each "dead" level.
Gunz 07-08-07, 05:06 PM	That's a great idea! Still, he'll miss some of the supporting power a cleric has but it's viable. It's largely a flavor problem, so maybe I'll post something in the Char Development forums for ideas on how a "cleric" would gain spells if he didn't worship a god.
UnknownCorrespondent 07-08-07, 07:55 PM	Since the character is evil, would Ur-Priest help? PrC from CAr and BoVD, requires Evil alignment, 2 +3 base saves, a handfull of skills w/ 5-8 ranks, 2 feats, and no ability to cast divine magic. You get a limited number of cleric spells/day, essentially gaining access to a new spell level for each class level you gain. You don't get domains or spontaneous casting, but at higher levels you gain Divine Spell Resistance, the ability to sacrifice several lower level spell slots for one higher one, and ultimately Steal Spell-Like Ability, allowing you to take the SLA of a nearby creature. The class is for someone who is so contemptuous of the gods that he has learned to steal their spells without worshipping them. This won't help if you are starting from 1st, but I'm just throwing in my 2 cp.
Salla 07-08-07, 07:57 PM	Firstly, clerics don't have to have gods, they just need to believe fervently in a cause. Gestalting a Swordsage with a Cleric, domains Fire and Celerity (or Fire and War) seems like an easy thematic link.
JulesCARV 07-08-07, 08:30 PM	Since the other side is swordsage, I assume you want a wisdom-based caster. That means that bards, egoists, archivists, etc, aren't all that useful. One possibility is to be some sort of rogue/chameleon (http://boards1.wizards.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp%3Fx%3Ddnd/iw/20041210b). Another possibility, homebrew, is planar mediumship (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=816375), some rules I came up with that allows clerics who have neither a religion nor a cause -- or at least whose magical powers are not dependent on whatever causes or religions they do adhere to. (Off-topic: I'm vaguely irritated about the idea of treating following a cause as an easy alternative to a religion -- having a cause isn't appropriate for all character concepts any more than having a religion is, and causes have demands and roleplaying implications of their own.)