Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dman11235 11-03-07, 11:26 PM	Moved to: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4045128#post4045128
vorpo 11-03-07, 11:40 PM	Overpowered to say the least. Entry lvl for this PrC is only lvl 6. So, a clvl 10 character with 7 domains is more than overpowered. 4/5 spellcasting make this entirely broken.
dman11235 11-03-07, 11:41 PM	Oops, I forgot to change the entry requirements. That was when I had it at 10 levels.
Bauglir 11-03-07, 11:43 PM	I'd say make it 2/5 spellcasting (none at level 1, alternate from there). You still get 9th level spells at 20, and the bonus domain spells increase the versatility and the number of spells available. The bonus feat and an extra domain every level just make it too much compared to a normal cleric. One caster level for class features? I'd take it without a second thought.
dman11235 11-03-07, 11:46 PM	Yeah, it was overpowered. I changed it to the 2/5 spellcasting and upped it to 3/4 BAB. Would this be better spread out over ten levels? That was my original idea.
vorpo 11-03-07, 11:54 PM	Ya... spreading over 10 lvls might be better...
dman11235 11-03-07, 11:56 PM	Okay, ten level version up.
bkdubs123 11-04-07, 12:23 AM	Reminds me of the Champion of the Seven Deadly Sins, except not nearly as awesome. You've probably never heard of it though - it was in the Green Ronin splat The Unholy Warrior (a pretty awesome supplement I picked up at Origins a few years back).
dman11235 11-04-07, 12:24 AM	Oh really? Any suggestions? I was not aware at all that this type of class existed.
bhu 11-04-07, 02:13 AM	Is this intended to be a cleric of a specific god, or of an ideal?
dman11235 11-04-07, 02:17 AM	Okay, I changed a little bit so maybe this is right now. Just an ideal, but there may be a deity coming later. basically devote yourself to sin.
vorpo 11-04-07, 07:55 AM	7 domains. What deities have that many? Well, you can pump all deities to 7 domains each easily...
dman11235 11-04-07, 03:38 PM	Obad-Hai has 7 exactly with the addition of the weather domain in the CDiv. The most anyone else has is 5 (most have this many). But it's more for clerics that don't have a deity rather than a specific one anyway. And note that it does give you the domains, whether or not they are in your deity's selection. Much like the Divine Oracle gives you the Oracle domain. And I can get 7 domains with Pelor: one level of divine oracle, five levels of RSoP for Purification, 6 of Contemplative for two more non-glory ones, and one level of Warpriest for Glory. This works if you do not choose glory as one of your domains at the begining or in contemplative, as purification and glory are both options with both RSoP and warpriest. This works with other deities that have 4 or more domains, but you need to do something besides RSoP obviously.
dman11235 11-05-07, 01:04 AM	To let you people know, I will be making the Cleric of Virtue later on. It shall be a mirror of this class, much like the seven holy virtues are opposed directly to the seven deadly sins. This will entail creating new domains, as the virtues do not exist in domain form, as far as I know.
dman11235 11-16-07, 07:01 AM	Okay, I want fresh eyes. This needs something, but I'm not sure what. Help please?
bhu 11-17-07, 04:04 AM	How bout Sin Feats?
dman11235 11-17-07, 04:50 AM	Vile feats? Or something new?
CliffracerSlayer 11-17-07, 07:04 AM	Not that I play anything but Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale, but I would guess that each 'Sin' should have it's own special feat, which would increase some attribute of the Cleric of Sin, relavant to the area. You would have to have that domain in order to have the feat though. Master of Envy- Gain +1 bonus to one's rolls when fighting anyone of a higher level than you in addition to an extra +1 for every 5 levels they are superior to you. Master of Gluttony- This allows you to both distract and harm enemies by placing a poisoned food item of a sort that the creature likes, if they fail a will save modified they proceed immediately to the location of the item as quickly as possible, at which point they will eat the poisoned item, which poisons them if they fail a fortitude check at -5 penalties. Master of Greed- This allows the character to obtain 25% extra wealth in all trades and 25% extra money on top of any rewards, if the character fails a Will check. Master of Lust- When dealing with any being that is of a type that could concievably have sexual feelings towards the character, that would normally be biengs of the opposite sex, the character recieves +10 charisma is the other character fails a Concentration check. Master of Pride- This character is immune to any fear spell cast by a bieng of a lower level. Master of Sloth- This character is able to send another character to sleep if they fail a Concentration check. Against Neutral creatures, the check is taken at a -5 penalty. Master of Wrath- This character is able to send any creature, which may be themselves, an ally or an enemy Beserk.
dman11235 11-17-07, 07:32 AM	I like the idea of the master of xxx, but they'd have to be something other than that. Most of yours just don't work.
bhu 11-18-07, 04:13 AM	Most of the Vile Feats seemed to have some other Vile Feat as a prerequisite (of course I'm going by memory, and it's been a while since I saw the books). If you make them Vile Feats you might have to make another Vile Feat as a prereq if they're too powerful.
dman11235 11-18-07, 08:21 AM	What? Some vile feats ave others as a prereq., but some don't. All of the deformities require willing deformity for instance, but Dark Speech, Lich Loved, the three (two?) disciple ones, and a couple others have no vile feat prereq. I'm not sure if that's what you're talking about or not though.
bhu 11-19-07, 04:02 AM	What? Some vile feats ave others as a prereq., but some don't. All of the deformities require willing deformity for instance, but Dark Speech, Lich Loved, the three (two?) disciple ones, and a couple others have no vile feat prereq. I'm not sure if that's what you're talking about or not though. Might be. I did post at 4 am after all.
dman11235 11-19-07, 05:58 PM	Oh, yeah I've done that before (post at 4), and got similar results. Any waay, some business. I'm having trouble figuring out what the mastery things should be, and how powerful. I was thinking having them be an extension of the domain powers in a way, but that could cause problems in they don't already have said domain. Other options would be similar to the Celestial Mystic (BoED, hey, seven sins, seven domains, seven heavens), but evil. Another option would be to come up with new things that have to do with each sin. Yet another would be to put a downside (sin related, i.e., for gluttony require twice the amount of food per day) and slightly greater benifit. I think I'll wait until I hear some opinions before continuing, but I might not be available later in the week (thanks thanksgiving).
vorpo 11-19-07, 07:14 PM	Spellcasting: At every even level, You are probably in the middle of reconstruction so you didn't change it. But I'd remind you it's not matching in the table.
turalisj 11-19-07, 07:55 PM	Might want to change the name too. It sounds too much like your bread and butter cleric. Perhaps student of the seven or something like that.
dman11235 11-19-07, 08:03 PM	I will change the name eventually, and it is under reconstruction. Note the Master Of X parts have not been fleshed out yet.
turalisj 11-19-07, 08:37 PM	If you want, I can work on the god(s). You can have eight gods, each one representing a vice, and the eighth one is a combination of the other seven.
dman11235 11-19-07, 08:41 PM	That works. I'm not all that proficient with the deities stuff any way. Heck, I haven't even looked at the cover of Deities and Demigods. I should have some work done on the Master Of X things by tomorrow, but no promises. Things are hectic right now. Actually, I think there may be a deity already existing for some of them. I'll have to check the BoVD and CDiv.
turalisj 11-19-07, 08:45 PM	It's better to have deities focused in one portfolio.... You could even make an opposing set of deities.
dman11235 11-19-07, 08:51 PM	Hmmm? I haven't actually looked at much in the way of deities before, so I don't know what to avoid and what it necessary (aside from domains and portfolio). Well, no deity in the BoVD is focused on a sin, and neither is any one from the CDiv. There are some that can be a sin, but it's a stretch (Hextor for pride or wrath, stuff like that). And if by opposing sets you mean a set of eight for the sins and a set of eight for the virtues, then yes, that's what I was planning (only not sets of eight, or even including deities, just that there will be a mirror class once I get this one set).
dman11235 11-19-07, 09:09 PM	This post is ideas for the Mastery Of X things: Envy: 1: You gain a +1 bonus to caster level whenever you cast a spell that damages or drains ability scores or deals negative levels. 2: Three times per day you may apply the maximize spell metamagic feat to any spell that damages or drains abilities or bestows negative levels. 3: Three times per day you may apply the empower spell metamagic feat to any spell that damages or drains abilities or bestows negative levels. 4: Once per day, you may make a melee touch attack against an opponent. If this attack succeeds, you inflict 1d6+1/2 class levels points of Charisma damage and gain that amount of Charisma for a number of rounds equal to your class level. Sloth: 1: your speed is reduced by 1/2, and you gain +1 HP per hit die. 2: Your speed is reduced by 1/2, and you gain +2 con. 3: You no longer take the -4 penalty on attack rolls while prone. Gluttony: 1: You must now eat twice as much as normal every day. Also, you gain a +2 bonus on fort saves against poison and disease. 2: You must now eat twice as much as normal every day. Also, you gain +2 con. 3: You gain the deformity feat Obese, even if you do not meet the prerequisites. 4: Once per day when eating a large meal you may benefit from the Hero's Feast spell, but only you are affected. It still takes one hour to consume. Greed: 1: You gain a +4 bonus on disarm checks. 2: You gain a +4 bonus on disarm checks and a +5 bonus on sleight of hand and appraise checks. Lust: 1: You gain charm person as a supernatural ability usable three times per day. DC is 10+class level+charisma. This charm lasts for one hour. 2: You may use your lust domain power three times per day. If you do not have the lust domain, you instead gain its granted power, and if you later gain the lust domain, you may use it three times per day. Pride: 1: Whenever you roll a natural 1 on an attack roll you may re-roll the attack immediately. You must accept the second roll even if it is another 1. 2: Three times per day you may treat a natural 1 on a save or attack roll as a natural 20. 3: You may add your charisma bonus to all saves as a profane bonus. Wrath: 1: You gain the rage ability usable 1/day. This functions in all ways as the barbarian class feature except that you retain the ability to use dexterity based skills and the ability to cast spells. 2: You gain the smite power, the supernatural ability to make a single melee attack with a bonus on attack rolls equal to your charisma modifier and a bonus on damage rolls equal to twice your class level. You must declare the smite before making the attack. This ability is usable three times per day.
dman11235 12-04-07, 08:26 PM	Does anyone have any ideas for the mastery of lust and pride?
vorpo 12-04-07, 08:29 PM	Lust, I would think of something related to charm person. And pride, I'd think along intimidate skills or something.
dman11235 12-04-07, 09:48 PM	That's what I was thinking of for lust, but I have no idea how to represent it. Spell focus enchantment as a bonus feat? Charm person/monster as a (sp) 1 or 3/day?
Viatos 12-05-07, 07:25 PM	I seriously almost made a post involving bonuses to Social rolls where manipulation of a Vice is possible, but then I remembered this isn't WoD and that wouldn't help. Lust: Three times per day, you may use Charm Person as a supernatural ability against any target capable and inclined (at least by general orientation) to mate with you. DC equal to 10 + class level + Cha. Envy: Once per day, you may make a melee touch attack against an opponent. If this attack succeeds, you inflict 1d6 points of Charisma damage and gain that amount of Charisma for a number of rounds equal to your class level. On a natural 20, instead inflict 1d6 points of Charisma drain and gain that amount of Charisma for a number of hours equal to your class level. Pride: Whenever you roll a natural 20 as a final result (IE, not counting rolls that are re-rolled or some such), you gain your Cha modifier as a morale bonus on attack rolls, Will saves, and spell DCs for 1 round. Sloth: You gain your Cha as a morale bonus to AC during a full defense action. Gluttony: Three times (one time?) per day, whenever you would gain health from some effect, such as a healing spell, you may gain an additional amount of health equal to your class level + Cha.
dman11235 12-05-07, 09:05 PM	WoD? Well, I'll put those up there. But pride is not right.
bhu 12-06-07, 03:58 AM	How about some sort of Charisma bonus added to a save for Pride?
dman11235 12-07-07, 01:56 AM	Okay, here is my idea on how to work the mastery, since I at least have a suggestion for each one. I'm still open to more ideas. The number is the suggestion that I'm currently using. Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spellcasting 1 +0 +2 +0 +2 bonus domain, - Master of Sloth #3 2 +1 +3 +0 +3 bonus feat +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class 3 +1 +3 +1 +3 bonus domain, +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class Master of Gluttony #1 4 +2 +4 +1 +4 Master of - Lust #1 5 +2 +4 +1 +4 bonus domain +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class 6 +3 +5 +2 +5 Master of +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class Greed #2 7 +3 +5 +2 +5 bonus domain, - Master of Wrath #1 8 +4 +6 +2 +6 bonus feat +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class 9 +4 +6 +3 +6 bonus domain, +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class Master of Pride #1 10 +5 +7 +3 +7 Apostle of Sin, - Master of Envy #3 The order is also up for review.
dman11235 12-15-07, 01:01 AM	Okay, since it's been a while I'm going to just take this order and see how it looks put into the class. There, this is the current final.