Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DannyUJ 07-25-07, 02:17 AM	I was looking through all my books the other day, and I started wondering if there is a class that combinds both the class features of a cleric i.e. turn/rebuke undead, divine magic, etc... and the rogue class features i.e. sneak attack, uncanny dodge, etc...? Isn't there such a thing as a sneaky cleric :D , and in what book can they be found?
The_Shaman 07-25-07, 03:09 AM	I do not think there is a PrC that combines SA and rebuke/turn undead, but as for SA and divine casting, there are a few. Here's what comes to mind: - Black Flame Zealot (UEast, Cdivine) - 1/2 progression, SA, Death attack, nongood - limited to a particular deity (originally FR Kossuth, can be extended to other non-good deities of fire) - Shadowbane Stalker (CAdv) - 8/10 progression or so, LG only - Darkmask of Vhaeraun (LoDarkness, 3.0, drow or half-drow only, evil) - full progression, 1 SA dice, 5 levels - limited to a particular deity (Vhaeraun, drow pantheon) - IIRC Strifeleader (Faiths and Pantheons, evil) - death attack, iirc sneak attack too - limited to a particular deity (Cyric, FR common)
Becket 07-25-07, 08:01 AM	A cleric with the trickery and travel domains can certainly be sneaky, especially with the devotion feats for these domains from complete champion, you can be an excellent sneak and scout. You'd have hide, move silently, bluff as class skills. Plus you'd have excellent mobility. Just toss them some light armor and a dagger, no sneak attack or trapfinding, but could be very fun.
The_Shaman 07-25-07, 09:19 AM	I don't have CC and CSc, but don't they still get only 2 +int skill points/level?
Dark1ord 07-25-07, 09:24 AM	A cleric with the trickery and travel domains can certainly be sneaky, especially with the devotion feats for these domains from complete champion, you can be an excellent sneak and scout. You'd have hide, move silently, bluff as class skills. travel grants survival, trickery grants bluff, disguise and hide. how would you get MS?... also, I daresay "scout" requires spot & listen...
Seldriss 07-25-07, 11:35 AM	What about the Divine Trickster ?
blowfish 07-25-07, 12:19 PM	I don't have CC and CSc, but don't they still get only 2 +int skill points/level? A reasonable DM would allow a swap of medium and heavy armour, as well as maybe shields, for a few more class skills and 6+int skill points per level.
Arkeas 07-25-07, 01:03 PM	If you are a Gnome you could be a Divine Prankster from RoS. Full spellcasting (I think) and 6+int skills per level. Seldriss, I know that I have seen the Divine Trickster before, but I cannot find it. Could you give the associated book?
pbradley179 07-25-07, 01:12 PM	Most recent Dragon magazine also includes the Sacred Outlaw feat, which allows you to stack Cleric and Rogue for the purpose of calculation Turning and Sneak Attacks.
DannyUJ 07-25-07, 01:27 PM	I haven't been able to find the Divine Trickster, where would I be able to find it?
Seldriss 07-25-07, 01:58 PM	All right... I must say that i am confused now... I was sure the Divine Trickster was a prestige class from one of the Forgotten Realms books. But it is not. There is the Divine Seeker (Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook and Player's Guide to Faerun), but that's not the same. The only Divine Trickster i could track is from Rich Burlew, and it's available on his website, in the forums (http://www.giantitp.com/Func0015.html).
ScorpiusRisk 07-25-07, 04:15 PM	Not to thread hijack, but where in Dragon is this wonderful Sacred Outlaw feat? It seems like it would help me greatly. I can't seem to locate it. EDIT: Nevermind. It's in July's Dragon. I have August's Dragon.
Salla 07-25-07, 04:41 PM	Divine Prankster is in Races of Stone ... Gnomes following Garl Glittergold only.
Dark1ord 07-25-07, 04:53 PM	A reasonable DM would allow a swap of medium and heavy armour, as well as maybe shields, for a few more class skills and 6+int skill points per level. I wanna say... cloistered cleric (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#cloistered-cleric). ;)
The_Shaman 07-25-07, 04:54 PM	A reasonable DM would allow a swap of medium and heavy armour, as well as maybe shields, for a few more class skills and 6+int skill points per level. Quite reasonable, indeed - it would be great for fighters and the like, too. Mind you, if the Thug from UA is any criterion, 4+int is much more likely.
Becket 07-25-07, 05:30 PM	travel grants survival, trickery grants bluff, disguise and hide. how would you get MS?... also, I daresay "scout" requires spot & listen... My mistake, I thought trickery gave hide, m/s, and bluff, but it's disguise instead. Well, I suppose you could play a goblin, they have a racial +4 on move silently, and get silent moves armor, or cast silence upon yourself :P
ninjarabbit 07-25-07, 06:54 PM	The kobold domain gives you trapfinding and search and disable device as class skills. A kobold cloistered cleric with the kobold domain can easily function as a trapfinder as well as a full cleric.
Ecalsneerg 07-25-07, 07:05 PM	No reason why you can't just multiclass. I once considered a Rogue/Cleric of Olidammaran. Not amazingly optimised, but a nice concept.
Grindor 07-25-07, 07:30 PM	Actually Their is a class. I just so happen to be it. :D My DM created this class. The Hand of Olidammara They're everywhere, these sneak-thieves, these apostles of the Laughing God; you can hardly go into a city without having to worry about your coin purse. However most of them are just petty crooks, yet there are some who make my life extremely difficult; they know where and how much each trinket is, taking only the most valuable prize. The victim is, by the way, nearly always the loudest, whiniest, most obnoxious aristocratic snob in the city or some self-rightteous adventurer, who upon learning that I, the incompetent fool that I am, have failed to find the perpetrator breaks into a tirade about how i'm not doing my job properly and how he deserves compensation, yes, they make my job very difficult. ---- Gareth Hilga, Chief Constable of the city of Arkin While a Hand of Olidammara is a theif extraordinaire, he relies just as much upon his god as his hands; Hit Dice: d6 Skill points: 8+ Int Attacks: as Rogue Saves: as Bard Prerequisites Alignment: Must be chaotic or true neutral Base Attack: +10 Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 10 ranks, tumble 10 ranks, search 17 ranks Feats: Dodge, Combat Reflexes Prestige Domain: At 1st level a Hand of Olidammara gains a prestige domain. He may choose either the Charm or Greed domain. Improved Feint (Ex): At 1st level a hand gains the improved feint feat. Sneak attack (Ex): at 2nd level and every other level thereafter, a Hand of Olidammara's sneak attack increases by 1d6 Special Abilites: over the length of his career, a Hand of Olidammara picks up a number of unusual and extraordinary tricks. At 1st, 4th, and 8th level he can choose to gain one of the following abilities: Acrobat (Ex): By accepting a -5 penalty to his tumble check, a Hand of Olidammara can tumble 10ft further than normal. Holy Thief: (Su): Because tombs are often gaurded by Undead, Olidammara grants his most holy servants a special defense. While normal sneak attacks do not affect undead, by expending a use of his turn/rebuke undead ability may emulate thegrave strikespell. Lucky (Ex): Whenever a Hand of Olidammara rolls a 1 on a save he may reroll that save. Furthermore, he is no longer subject to critical failures (though a result of 1 on a skill check or an attack roll is still an automatic failur.) This applies only once to each save (i.e if the second roll is a 1 no reroll is allowed.) Poison Use (Ex): When applying poison to a weapon, a hand of Olidammara is not at risk of poisoning himself. Theiving Strike (Ex): After making a successful melee attack, a hand of olidammara may make a sleight of hand check as a move action with a +5 bonus against his target. Boon/Bane of Olidammara (Su): Any time a hand of Olidammara casts a spell which gives an ally a bones or an opponent a penalty, said bonus or penalty is increased by an amount equal to one-third of the Hand's class level. Trap Sense (Ex): At 2nd level a Hand of Olidammara gains trap sense +1. This increases to +2 at 6th level and +3 at 10th. Hands of the Laughing God (Su): At 3rd level a Hand of Olidammara gains a competence bonus to sleight of hand checks equal to his class level (Max +10). Olidammara's Blessing (Su): When making a sneak attack, A hand of Olidammara gains a competence bonus to attack equal his class level (Max +10) This ability is gained at 4th level. Improved Evasion (Ex): at 6th level a Hand of Olidammara gains Improved Evasion. A Thousand Faces (Su): A Hand of Olidammara of at least 3rd level can use alter self at will. Expanded Knowledge: Through Olidammara's blessing, a hand gains the ability to cast spells from the following list as if they were divine spells and part of his spell list: 1-lvl --- Appraising touch, benign transposition, critical strike, detect treasure, distract assailant, elemental strike, golem strike, instant search, ooze strike, pass without trace, tree strike 2-lvl --- Baleful transposition, delusions of grandeur, glitterdust, identify, invisibility, spider climb 3-lvl --- Listening coin, mesmerizing glare, miser's envy, nondetection, shadow cache, sign of sealing, unluck, treasure scent 4-lvl --- Greater invisiblity, know vulnerabilites, suggestion, translocation trick 5-lvl --- Persistent Image 7-lvl --- Mass invisibility 8-lvl --- Superior invisiblity Spellcasting: A hand of Olidammara gains divine spells per day as if he had gained a level in his existing divine class.
Piropoint 07-28-07, 03:06 PM	The Hand of Olidammara looks like a really fun class. Which of the abilities go with the 1st, 4th, and 8th level choices? Has this been put up for peach? I would like to discuss it more on its own thread.
The_Shaman 07-28-07, 03:35 PM	Sounds quite strong, if it gets spellcasting. Does it?
zorgling25 07-28-07, 03:37 PM	You just reminded me that there IS a Temple Raider of Olidammara class in Complete Divine (which you can qualify for without levels of Cleric at all).
Piropoint 07-29-07, 08:10 AM	it does look powerful. thats why i want to discuss it on its own thread.
GawainBS 07-29-07, 08:41 AM	Don't forget the Skullclan Hunter from the Mini HB.
Treantmonklvl20 07-29-07, 10:42 AM	Temple raider of Olidimarra has long been the standard for a rogue/cleric hybrid. Rogue skills and SA, spellcasting isn't very strong, but it is clerical spells.
The_Shaman 07-29-07, 02:15 PM	Which I always thought a pity - arcane spells are often more useful, and 10-level PrCs with arcane progression grant more spells than those with divine (compare assassin to blackguard). I wonder why, tbh.
zorgling25 07-29-07, 02:38 PM	Which I always thought a pity - arcane spells are often more useful, and 10-level PrCs with arcane progression grant more spells than those with divine (compare assassin to blackguard). I wonder why, tbh. It partially has to do with flavor. Arcane spells (invisibility or disguise self) just fit better with rogue-types. You notice that neither get a lot of the really good arcane or divine spells like dispel magic or divine power because they don't work with a rogue-types flavor. Also, you notice that the blackguard has two good saves instead of one, and full BAB progression, which clearly indicates that its a less of a caster than the assassin to begin with.
The_Shaman 07-29-07, 04:28 PM	It's not always saves: a 10-level PrC with its own divine casting almost always gives a 2-2-2-1 progression, while a similar PrC with arcane progression gives 3-3-3-3.