Post/Author/DateTime	Post
exploding_brain 08-24-04, 01:04 AM	Quick question: I'm working with a player of mine is working on making a custom core class, based on the Cleric and Druid. Looked at in isolation, what's the conventional wisdom on the Cleric and Druid spell lists? Is one noticeablybetter than the other? Thanks
BlaineTog 08-24-04, 01:08 AM	The Cleric's is noticably better than the Druid's. As it should be. The druid gets a boatload of class features, on top of BaB, HD, spellcasting, etc. The Cleric only gets Turn Undead (which pales in comparison to wildshape).
Archangel 08-24-04, 05:03 AM	It really depends on the Domains that the Cleric chooses. Some druid spells are really good and the cleric doesn't have them if he doesn't have appropriate domain. But if we are talking about cleric spells without cleric domains then no, cleric doesn't have that much better spell list!
Cross Hatch 08-24-04, 07:45 AM	The Druid has the best 5 spells, period, of 1st and 2nd level. The Cleric has Miracle. The Druid has the lowest level "bring back from dead" spell in the game. The Cleric has Summon Planar Ally. In short, it depends on what you are looking for. I believe that the best spells are those which shape the battlefield (ie. get the enemy to fight on your terms). As such, I strongly believe that the Druid has the better spell list at low and medium levels. The Cleric unquestionably has better high level spells.
Thermanshs 08-24-04, 09:10 AM	Originally posted by BlaineTog The Cleric's is noticably better than the Druid's. As it should be. The druid gets a boatload of class features, on top of BaB, HD, spellcasting, etc. The Cleric only gets Turn Undead (which pales in comparison to wildshape). Agreed.PLUS the druidic spell list is very confined to match this naturistic concept,focused on messing with the forces of nature mostly. No way does the druid have the cleric's buffing capability,healing restorations,divination powers or summoning extraplanar aid.
Gnarl 08-31-04, 08:04 AM	Mixing the druid and the cleric spell list can be quite unbalancing. Buff spells: make sure that the character wont be able to stack bonus of different kinds. Druids have natural armor buffs (barkskin, tortoise shield), touch and damage enhancement bonus (magic fang, spikes, brilliant aura), a couple more damaging spells usefull in combat (fires of purity another spell that grants 1d6 + strength on each hit or something like that) and animal specific buffs (nature's avatar, nature's favor). On the other hand, clerics usually grant deflection (shield of faith, protection from evil...), resistance (holy aura, protection from evil), enhancement bonus (I think, Divine Favor), and a couple of evil spells such as righteous might or divine might. So long as your priest/druid can't cast Divine Favor, Nature's Avatar, Nature's Favor, Shield of Faith when polymorphed as a frog, this should do. Direct Damage: the druid is immensly more powerfull (even than a wizo imo). Flame Strike, Comet Fall, Bombardment, Firestorm are all too effecient, unmatched even by wizard spells of the same level. Priest suck at these kinds of spells. Healing spells: Now that of course is the cleric's privilege. Of course once again the druid has better ones but longer to be effecient (did I say unyielding roots or rejuvenation cocoon). So the cleric can do a lot of good and very fast, the druid can do the same but at a much slower pace. Instant Kill: Damn those clerics are good at that. Slay living, destruction, implosion, harm... Ouch all over. Divination: Yeah right, the druid can speak with a door and the dog behind it. Frankly, that sucks compared to 9800 - God "hello good, did a pigeon pee on me ?" "yes" "why does it stink" "because"... Commune spells are the most brutal divination spells in the game (imo). To put things in a nut shell, I'd say neither is better. I personnally enjoy the extra versatality of the cleric compared to the druid, but I just love wild shaping into King Kong too much.
amoeba 08-31-04, 10:35 AM	Druid direct damage is not better than arcane direct damage in my opinion as most of it is fire or lightening based. But yes, combining the druid and cleric lists would just be insane.
vampeel 10-14-04, 02:52 AM	Well with a less edumacated oppion. I would say the wizard get better low level explosive attack spells, but a little higher level the druid and cleric get better explosion attacking spells. The wizard spells take a bit more creativity to become more powerful offinsive spell.
jsaving 10-14-04, 11:12 PM	The druid spell list has: * direct-damage spells that are better than the cleric's but worse than the wizard's * healing spells that are better than the wizard's but worse than the cleric's * nature-oriented spells that are the best in the game If you want to combine the two spell lists in a way that won't unbalance your new class, you should probably either replace the clerical healing spells with the druidic ones or else not let your new class cast the druidic direct-damage spells.
monkeywrench 10-15-04, 01:41 AM	Druid's spell list rules. Spontaneous Summoning, sweet awesome blasting spells, ability score buffing, the ever awesome Quill Blast, some good divinations, I love this class. I'm trying to work up a spontaneous version because I love that casting method. And don't mention the Spirit Shaman to me, that class is terrible