Cleric spell preparation [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cleric spell preparation [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shadowfax7
05-07-05, 10:05 AM Clerics pray for their spells 1/day at a designated time. During that time they prepare the spells they will choose to cast that day.

If they don't cast all of their prepared spells for that day, the spells are lost and you must re-pray/re-prepare the spells the next day.

This is the way I understand it.

However, a different interpretation was proposed to me. That is that the spells prepared, but not cast the day before, can still be cast the next day w/o first praying/preparing them ??

I don't believe this is correct, but felt the need to confirm this.

In other words, unlike the Wizard, a Cleric must pray/prepare spells every day otherwise they have no spells to cast. They cannot keep spells prepared the previous day in reserve.
Jaid
05-07-05, 10:58 AM as far as i know, clerics retain their uncast spells just the same as any other caster.

of course, i personally would tend to think they should still go through a whole hour of prayer every day when reasonable anyways, just because it seems a little silly that they might just decide "oh, i don't need any new spells today... i'm just not going to pray at all" or something like that =P

but anyways, yeah, they keep prepared spells from day to day (unless they choose to replace them instead).
Board_Rider
05-07-05, 11:13 AM I have never heaard this argument before. I would say that, yes, a Cleric would retain their uncast spells day to day. That is the way I play it.

However I could see the argument of how they would lose the spells as well. If the DM wanted to, he could feasably say that without praying/worshiping each day for spells and self duty than his diety may not grant spells he following/same day.
Lana "Silvertongue"
05-07-05, 12:33 PM Clerics pray for spells every day at a certain time. For some, this is midnight, for others this is noon. The cleric has all those spells for the next 23 three hours till he casts them or it has past his appointed prayer time. He does not lose them simple for sleeping if he has a noontime prayer requirement and has not cast them. Remember to keep track of hours if your gunna be very restrictive as to when prayer for spells is. There is nothing more likely to earn a DM major animosity from a cleric player than a DM who says... "Whoops, you have no spells simply because your time to pray has past."
ehrin
05-07-05, 01:01 PM In my worlds, uncast spells are kept "usuable" right up until the moment that the divine player asks his deity/minions/avatar for a new set.

Sometimes, this can be "please grant me the strength to do thine will, as you always have" (in which case, the normal set of spells, usually prepared, is granted) or "I grant me the spells to help me in thine favor, accomplish this day the tasks set before me (which then grants the spellcasters new list), or whatever. The caster "asks" for his spells every day, and they are "re-granted". However, if for some reason, the caster cannot do his supplications, he does not lose his unused spells at his prayer time. For instance, he is bound and gagged and being held for three days.... In my world, all his unused spells remain, he just cannot switch them or get any new ones granted.

And, any spells cast between his 8 hours rest and preparation, and his granting, are not refilled... those are used for the day, and can't be filled again.
Shadowfax7
05-08-05, 10:20 AM OK, then the spells prepared, but not cast the day before, can still be cast the next day w/o first praying/preparing them.

What happens when a Cleric is not able to pray for 3 days (as the above example) ?? His/her deity still allows him/her to cast the spells already granted by the prayer of 3 days ago w/o recourse due to the Cleric not praying for 3 days ??

It does seem that this is the way it is, but seems abusable in that players can forego prayer until they cast any spells if they had a full set of prepared spells.

But if a Cleric was a spontaneous caster (say through a PrC) then he would have to pray everyday unless he didn't want to cast spells that day since he doesn't prepare spells and thus would not have any prepared spells from the day before ??
ehrin
05-08-05, 10:38 AM In my world, if a cleric is unable to pray for valid reason, his deity will usually cut him some slack. After all, he may not be able to do the rituals, but he can still "think" his prayers, probably.

but, if a cleric just got his spells, and only came back to his god when he needed a recharge, his god would cut him off pretty quick. "No spells for you!"
Lana "Silvertongue"
05-08-05, 12:31 PM I think if your going to get into situations with people getting held captive, ect. You need to get down to the schematics as to how they pray. If prayer is simply meditation. Bound and held really doesn't render them obsolete, just can't do anything without lots of metamagics. These kind of details still require being up front with your DM style, situations that might arise and being honest as to not behave like because your divine and I think clerics are broken I am going to punish you. (Just a note: I am not suggesting you do this, but perceptions in the past have put me in this situation. Not everyone plays a broken cleric. Not everyone can break a cleric because they like to roleplay, not just number crunch.)
Shadowfax7
05-08-05, 12:41 PM OK, I can go with cutting the Cleric slack on when he prays for certain situations, as well as expecting a player not to abuse rules. No problem there.

What about my 2nd question . . .

If a Cleric was a spontaneous caster (say through a PrC) would he have to pray everyday unless he didn't want to cast spells that day since he doesn't prepare spells and thus would not have any prepared spells from the day before ??
Talmar
05-09-05, 10:03 AM What about my 2nd question . . .

If a Cleric was a spontaneous caster (say through a PrC) would he have to pray everyday unless he didn't want to cast spells that day since he doesn't prepare spells and thus would not have any prepared spells from the day before ??

Like the Favored Soul class from Complete Divine, a divine spontainious caster. I believe the rules state he gains access to his spell list the same way a cleric prepare his/her spells. IE, he must pray for his spell slots, not necessarily his spells.

And, like the cleric, if he has unused spell slots and is hindered from prayer, he keeps his unused spell slots. He must pray at his first possible prayer opportunity buy he'll keep his slots until that time.
Memnoch138
05-09-05, 03:45 PM Being that divine spells are basically powers rewarded for devotion to a deity, I could see an argument that, after the cleric has failed to pray for the day, the deity may no longer wish to grant those powers unused from the previous day. I would think the circumstances under which it happens dictate the outcome. If a priest simply doesn't feel like praying when he's supposed to, the deity wouldn't feel like granting him the powers he was promised. As far as postponing praying because of extenuating circumstances, there is already plenty of rules governing this.

I think classes like cleric, because of the potential power found in divine spells, should be strictly policed when it comes to these issues. After all, wizards require a full night's rest before spell preparation, whereas a cleric may pray at his given time, regardless of his/her state of rest. As long as they take that hour, they get their spells. Since they have an advantage in this respect, I believe their restrictions should be enforced heavily to counterbalance it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadowfax7 05-07-05, 10:05 AM	Clerics pray for their spells 1/day at a designated time. During that time they prepare the spells they will choose to cast that day. If they don't cast all of their prepared spells for that day, the spells are lost and you must re-pray/re-prepare the spells the next day. This is the way I understand it. However, a different interpretation was proposed to me. That is that the spells prepared, but not cast the day before, can still be cast the next day w/o first praying/preparing them ?? I don't believe this is correct, but felt the need to confirm this. In other words, unlike the Wizard, a Cleric must pray/prepare spells every day otherwise they have no spells to cast. They cannot keep spells prepared the previous day in reserve.
Jaid 05-07-05, 10:58 AM	as far as i know, clerics retain their uncast spells just the same as any other caster. of course, i personally would tend to think they should still go through a whole hour of prayer every day when reasonable anyways, just because it seems a little silly that they might just decide "oh, i don't need any new spells today... i'm just not going to pray at all" or something like that =P but anyways, yeah, they keep prepared spells from day to day (unless they choose to replace them instead).
Board_Rider 05-07-05, 11:13 AM	I have never heaard this argument before. I would say that, yes, a Cleric would retain their uncast spells day to day. That is the way I play it. However I could see the argument of how they would lose the spells as well. If the DM wanted to, he could feasably say that without praying/worshiping each day for spells and self duty than his diety may not grant spells he following/same day.
Lana "Silvertongue" 05-07-05, 12:33 PM	Clerics pray for spells every day at a certain time. For some, this is midnight, for others this is noon. The cleric has all those spells for the next 23 three hours till he casts them or it has past his appointed prayer time. He does not lose them simple for sleeping if he has a noontime prayer requirement and has not cast them. Remember to keep track of hours if your gunna be very restrictive as to when prayer for spells is. There is nothing more likely to earn a DM major animosity from a cleric player than a DM who says... "Whoops, you have no spells simply because your time to pray has past."
ehrin 05-07-05, 01:01 PM	In my worlds, uncast spells are kept "usuable" right up until the moment that the divine player asks his deity/minions/avatar for a new set. Sometimes, this can be "please grant me the strength to do thine will, as you always have" (in which case, the normal set of spells, usually prepared, is granted) or "I grant me the spells to help me in thine favor, accomplish this day the tasks set before me (which then grants the spellcasters new list), or whatever. The caster "asks" for his spells every day, and they are "re-granted". However, if for some reason, the caster cannot do his supplications, he does not lose his unused spells at his prayer time. For instance, he is bound and gagged and being held for three days.... In my world, all his unused spells remain, he just cannot switch them or get any new ones granted. And, any spells cast between his 8 hours rest and preparation, and his granting, are not refilled... those are used for the day, and can't be filled again.
Shadowfax7 05-08-05, 10:20 AM	OK, then the spells prepared, but not cast the day before, can still be cast the next day w/o first praying/preparing them. What happens when a Cleric is not able to pray for 3 days (as the above example) ?? His/her deity still allows him/her to cast the spells already granted by the prayer of 3 days ago w/o recourse due to the Cleric not praying for 3 days ?? It does seem that this is the way it is, but seems abusable in that players can forego prayer until they cast any spells if they had a full set of prepared spells. But if a Cleric was a spontaneous caster (say through a PrC) then he would have to pray everyday unless he didn't want to cast spells that day since he doesn't prepare spells and thus would not have any prepared spells from the day before ??
ehrin 05-08-05, 10:38 AM	In my world, if a cleric is unable to pray for valid reason, his deity will usually cut him some slack. After all, he may not be able to do the rituals, but he can still "think" his prayers, probably. but, if a cleric just got his spells, and only came back to his god when he needed a recharge, his god would cut him off pretty quick. "No spells for you!"
Lana "Silvertongue" 05-08-05, 12:31 PM	I think if your going to get into situations with people getting held captive, ect. You need to get down to the schematics as to how they pray. If prayer is simply meditation. Bound and held really doesn't render them obsolete, just can't do anything without lots of metamagics. These kind of details still require being up front with your DM style, situations that might arise and being honest as to not behave like because your divine and I think clerics are broken I am going to punish you. (Just a note: I am not suggesting you do this, but perceptions in the past have put me in this situation. Not everyone plays a broken cleric. Not everyone can break a cleric because they like to roleplay, not just number crunch.)
Shadowfax7 05-08-05, 12:41 PM	OK, I can go with cutting the Cleric slack on when he prays for certain situations, as well as expecting a player not to abuse rules. No problem there. What about my 2nd question . . . If a Cleric was a spontaneous caster (say through a PrC) would he have to pray everyday unless he didn't want to cast spells that day since he doesn't prepare spells and thus would not have any prepared spells from the day before ??
Talmar 05-09-05, 10:03 AM	What about my 2nd question . . . If a Cleric was a spontaneous caster (say through a PrC) would he have to pray everyday unless he didn't want to cast spells that day since he doesn't prepare spells and thus would not have any prepared spells from the day before ?? Like the Favored Soul class from Complete Divine, a divine spontainious caster. I believe the rules state he gains access to his spell list the same way a cleric prepare his/her spells. IE, he must pray for his spell slots, not necessarily his spells. And, like the cleric, if he has unused spell slots and is hindered from prayer, he keeps his unused spell slots. He must pray at his first possible prayer opportunity buy he'll keep his slots until that time.
Memnoch138 05-09-05, 03:45 PM	Being that divine spells are basically powers rewarded for devotion to a deity, I could see an argument that, after the cleric has failed to pray for the day, the deity may no longer wish to grant those powers unused from the previous day. I would think the circumstances under which it happens dictate the outcome. If a priest simply doesn't feel like praying when he's supposed to, the deity wouldn't feel like granting him the powers he was promised. As far as postponing praying because of extenuating circumstances, there is already plenty of rules governing this. I think classes like cleric, because of the potential power found in divine spells, should be strictly policed when it comes to these issues. After all, wizards require a full night's rest before spell preparation, whereas a cleric may pray at his given time, regardless of his/her state of rest. As long as they take that hour, they get their spells. Since they have an advantage in this respect, I believe their restrictions should be enforced heavily to counterbalance it.