Cleric troubles [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cleric troubles [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ransolot
04-09-06, 01:14 PM Hi there. Ok, here is my situation. A question comes up all the time in our D&D group... Can Clerics of good nature cast Necromancy spells? Now, by

the PHB it says that a Cleric just cant cast spells that his/her god would oppose. So a Cleric like mine (Of Pelor) Just cant cast any spells that have

the title "Evil" from what Im told. This just doesnt seem right to me. I could be way off and barking up the wrong tree here, but it just seems wrong to

me for a good Cleric to cast "Inflict Wounds". If anyone has better insight to this, please respond. Thank you much.
DeathsAudit
04-09-06, 01:23 PM A Cleric of Pelor would be striped of his spells if he helped a undead with Inflict Wounds and can not get Evil spells.
Any help?
SamiPeikko
04-09-06, 02:23 PM Really, only Evil spells are those that have Evil descriptors. Good cleric can cast almost all necromancy spells that do not create undead. Inflicting is not evil act and neither is Energy Draining.

What I do not understand is spells causing Disease (like Contagion, Mass Contagion and even the special spells that actually create plagues that transmit by touch) are not evil. My good clerics don't even _want_ to cast those.
Also check the description for the faith. If the big thing is, say fighting disease, you should leave those spells out. If the thing is fighting "necromancers" it could well mean just anyone that animates corpses and not necromancy specialist wizards who do not.
kelvinaw273
04-09-06, 06:14 PM Really, only Evil spells are those that have Evil descriptors. Good cleric can cast almost all necromancy spells that do not create undead. Inflicting is not evil act and neither is Energy Draining.

What I do not understand is spells causing Disease (like Contagion, Mass Contagion and even the special spells that actually create plagues that transmit by touch) are not evil. My good clerics don't even _want_ to cast those.
Also check the description for the faith. If the big thing is, say fighting disease, you should leave those spells out. If the thing is fighting "necromancers" it could well mean just anyone that animates corpses and not necromancy specialist wizards who do not.

Just because they are good does not mean that they would not use any weapon to smite evil.
Mitchell
04-09-06, 10:48 PM "Hmmm... An inflict spell just seems so evil. I think I'll whack it with my mace." :)
SamiPeikko
04-11-06, 04:23 AM Just because they are good does not mean that they would not use any weapon to smite evil.

The way I play good aligment is:
1) There must be reason to attack even evil opponents. Aligment does not count, but agression against party or local population does. Discovered plans for world domination or assasination are reason enough, just like trying any world threatening plot, no matter how well intended or pasifistic.
2) I use effective means in fighting, but want my attacks to be precise (not to hurt bystanders no matter what their racial aligment). In this regard I feel Disease spells are more sadistic than effective, and those creating a spreading disease are great threat to bystanders and general population.

Now I know that many people play differently, and I do not claim that my way is in any way best or most proper way of playing. If you, for example, play "good is there to eradicate evil", and racial evil is irredeemable, it may be proper and within aligment in your campaign to teleport deep into enemy territory to start a plague. That may well prevent one future invasion or something...
mordeus
04-11-06, 05:29 AM Welll... thats a big story that has been discused a lot in the past.D&D is pretty clear in this aspect.Good clerics cannot cast spells with the evil descriptor!That's it.However inflict and many other necromancy spells ARENT described as evil, so a good cleric can cast them normally.
Now, if some spells should be evil or not is another matter.I believe that you should stick to the books.If you totally want to mess things up, be a neutral cleric without a deity and choose necromancy and healing domains!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Nerf_Samurai
04-11-06, 05:51 AM The way I see it, as long as the spell does not have the evil descriptor, it becomes a roleplaying choice for the player. If it suits your character and campaign to use disease and inflict spells, so be it. I can imagine a lawfull good deity with a policy of "by any means neccessary" when it comes to evil. Personally, I don't use necromancy or disease spells when playing as a good spellcaster of any type(of course, I usually stick to neutral characters).
smallfishnova
04-11-06, 07:08 AM I would see it that way.

Being a good cleric of Pelor, it is almost sure you must not cast any spell with evil descriptor.

All spells with evil descriptor (for core only?) are in the nercomacy school, but not all necromacy spell are evil spell. For example, mark of justice and deathwrad are necromacy spells which i think good clerics may use.

One important thing is that the issue of channeling negative energy is a evil act or not. As a good cleric, you normally channel positive energy and so you can convert them to cure spell (the evil one convert to inflict spell). So, i think it is not good to use spell that channel negative energy (for example, energy drain, any inflict spell and harm...). It may not be an evil act, but it is quite sure not a good act. So, i think you can pray your deity (better to ask outside game) to see he justifies this view or not.
CzarGarrett
04-11-06, 09:28 AM Clerics with one alignment cannot cast those of an opposite spell type.

Thus, Good clerics cannot cast Evil spells. Chaotic Clerics cannot cast Lawful spells.

That is the only rule.

However, if I were DM over a PC Cleric of Pelor who wanted to start casting spells that weren't necessarily [Evil], but were opposed to their Ethos without good cause- I'd impose some sort of penalty. Minor at first, increasing in severity, unless the Cleric wised up and stopped then atoned of sorts.
Richard_Tullus
04-11-06, 10:35 PM I know it doesn't make much sense, but Czar Garret is right. I play a cleric of Ezra (LG) in Ravenloft; she offers the Destruction domain much like St. Cuthbert. I can cast the inflict spells but there is a chance that channeling the negative energy would start to corrupt my soul. Other spells, like deathward, are not a problem though it is necromantic.
SevenOfSerenity
04-11-06, 11:42 PM By the rules, clerics cannot cast spells that have the opposite alignment as a descriptor (a good cleric cannot cast blasphemy) -- as long as there is no [Evil] descriptor tagged onto your spell, then you can cast it. However, that does not mean that the way you use the spell is not evil.

Using inflict spells to cause undue suffering (not just in self defense or defeating the evil, rampaging monster) is certainly an evil act, even though the spell is not evil. The same holds true for casting cure spells to keep your torture victim alive so you can cause even more suffering and pain (which is certainly an evil act, even though you're using positive energy to perform it).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ransolot 04-09-06, 01:14 PM	Hi there. Ok, here is my situation. A question comes up all the time in our D&D group... Can Clerics of good nature cast Necromancy spells? Now, by the PHB it says that a Cleric just cant cast spells that his/her god would oppose. So a Cleric like mine (Of Pelor) Just cant cast any spells that have the title "Evil" from what Im told. This just doesnt seem right to me. I could be way off and barking up the wrong tree here, but it just seems wrong to me for a good Cleric to cast "Inflict Wounds". If anyone has better insight to this, please respond. Thank you much.
DeathsAudit 04-09-06, 01:23 PM	A Cleric of Pelor would be striped of his spells if he helped a undead with Inflict Wounds and can not get Evil spells. Any help?
SamiPeikko 04-09-06, 02:23 PM	Really, only Evil spells are those that have Evil descriptors. Good cleric can cast almost all necromancy spells that do not create undead. Inflicting is not evil act and neither is Energy Draining. What I do not understand is spells causing Disease (like Contagion, Mass Contagion and even the special spells that actually create plagues that transmit by touch) are not evil. My good clerics don't even _want_ to cast those. Also check the description for the faith. If the big thing is, say fighting disease, you should leave those spells out. If the thing is fighting "necromancers" it could well mean just anyone that animates corpses and not necromancy specialist wizards who do not.
kelvinaw273 04-09-06, 06:14 PM	Really, only Evil spells are those that have Evil descriptors. Good cleric can cast almost all necromancy spells that do not create undead. Inflicting is not evil act and neither is Energy Draining. What I do not understand is spells causing Disease (like Contagion, Mass Contagion and even the special spells that actually create plagues that transmit by touch) are not evil. My good clerics don't even _want_ to cast those. Also check the description for the faith. If the big thing is, say fighting disease, you should leave those spells out. If the thing is fighting "necromancers" it could well mean just anyone that animates corpses and not necromancy specialist wizards who do not. Just because they are good does not mean that they would not use any weapon to smite evil.
Mitchell 04-09-06, 10:48 PM	"Hmmm... An inflict spell just seems so evil. I think I'll whack it with my mace." :)
SamiPeikko 04-11-06, 04:23 AM	Just because they are good does not mean that they would not use any weapon to smite evil. The way I play good aligment is: 1) There must be reason to attack even evil opponents. Aligment does not count, but agression against party or local population does. Discovered plans for world domination or assasination are reason enough, just like trying any world threatening plot, no matter how well intended or pasifistic. 2) I use effective means in fighting, but want my attacks to be precise (not to hurt bystanders no matter what their racial aligment). In this regard I feel Disease spells are more sadistic than effective, and those creating a spreading disease are great threat to bystanders and general population. Now I know that many people play differently, and I do not claim that my way is in any way best or most proper way of playing. If you, for example, play "good is there to eradicate evil", and racial evil is irredeemable, it may be proper and within aligment in your campaign to teleport deep into enemy territory to start a plague. That may well prevent one future invasion or something...
mordeus 04-11-06, 05:29 AM	Welll... thats a big story that has been discused a lot in the past.D&D is pretty clear in this aspect.Good clerics cannot cast spells with the evil descriptor!That's it.However inflict and many other necromancy spells ARENT described as evil, so a good cleric can cast them normally. Now, if some spells should be evil or not is another matter.I believe that you should stick to the books.If you totally want to mess things up, be a neutral cleric without a deity and choose necromancy and healing domains!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Nerf_Samurai 04-11-06, 05:51 AM	The way I see it, as long as the spell does not have the evil descriptor, it becomes a roleplaying choice for the player. If it suits your character and campaign to use disease and inflict spells, so be it. I can imagine a lawfull good deity with a policy of "by any means neccessary" when it comes to evil. Personally, I don't use necromancy or disease spells when playing as a good spellcaster of any type(of course, I usually stick to neutral characters).
smallfishnova 04-11-06, 07:08 AM	I would see it that way. Being a good cleric of Pelor, it is almost sure you must not cast any spell with evil descriptor. All spells with evil descriptor (for core only?) are in the nercomacy school, but not all necromacy spell are evil spell. For example, mark of justice and deathwrad are necromacy spells which i think good clerics may use. One important thing is that the issue of channeling negative energy is a evil act or not. As a good cleric, you normally channel positive energy and so you can convert them to cure spell (the evil one convert to inflict spell). So, i think it is not good to use spell that channel negative energy (for example, energy drain, any inflict spell and harm...). It may not be an evil act, but it is quite sure not a good act. So, i think you can pray your deity (better to ask outside game) to see he justifies this view or not.
CzarGarrett 04-11-06, 09:28 AM	Clerics with one alignment cannot cast those of an opposite spell type. Thus, Good clerics cannot cast Evil spells. Chaotic Clerics cannot cast Lawful spells. That is the only rule. However, if I were DM over a PC Cleric of Pelor who wanted to start casting spells that weren't necessarily [Evil], but were opposed to their Ethos without good cause- I'd impose some sort of penalty. Minor at first, increasing in severity, unless the Cleric wised up and stopped then atoned of sorts.
Richard_Tullus 04-11-06, 10:35 PM	I know it doesn't make much sense, but Czar Garret is right. I play a cleric of Ezra (LG) in Ravenloft; she offers the Destruction domain much like St. Cuthbert. I can cast the inflict spells but there is a chance that channeling the negative energy would start to corrupt my soul. Other spells, like deathward, are not a problem though it is necromantic.
SevenOfSerenity 04-11-06, 11:42 PM	By the rules, clerics cannot cast spells that have the opposite alignment as a descriptor (a good cleric cannot cast blasphemy) -- as long as there is no [Evil] descriptor tagged onto your spell, then you can cast it. However, that does not mean that the way you use the spell is not evil. Using inflict spells to cause undue suffering (not just in self defense or defeating the evil, rampaging monster) is certainly an evil act, even though the spell is not evil. The same holds true for casting cure spells to keep your torture victim alive so you can cause even more suffering and pain (which is certainly an evil act, even though you're using positive energy to perform it).