Post/Author/DateTime	Post
iuchiban 10-11-07, 05:45 PM	Hi there I was wondering what other people thought of the following proposed class feature substitution: === Improved Spontaneous Casting A good cleric (or a neutral cleric of a good deity) can channel stored spell energy into healing spells that the cleric did not prepare ahead of time. The cleric can "lose" any prepared spell that is not a domain spell in order to cast any Cure spell or Vigor spell of the same spell level or lower (any spell with "cure" or "vigor" in its name). If a cleric chooses this class feature, they give up their ability to turn undead. === For reference, the Vigor spells appear in Complete Divine. What do you guys think? Balanced? Is turn undead too much to give up? Or is this getting too much in return? Please let me know what you think of this, or any alternative suggestions. Thanks!
vorpo 10-11-07, 06:41 PM	Not really, the cleric can spontaneous cast cure spells already. So, dropping turn undead just to cast vigor. Kind of useless.
iuchiban 10-11-07, 06:50 PM	Thanks for your reply! So your feeling is that Turn Undead is more valuable than the Spontaneous Vigor? I'm asking mainly because my Cleric is currently the main party healer. Being able to spontaneously cast Vigor would be a useful for reducing post-fight downtime, and allows a more precise level of healing. And Turn Undead doesn't really fit my character concept, so it seemed like a reasonable power to lose. I would agree with you that Turn Undead is a better ability; I'm mostly checking to make sure that this particular change isn't over-powered.
FponkDamn 10-11-07, 07:19 PM	Giving up Turning (and the slew of other abilities it enables) is a sizable price to pay for spontaneous Vigor. Instead of giving up Turning, perhaps simply giving up a domain choice would be closer in power level. If your character doesn't include turning in his/her list of "on-theme" abilities, there are numerous other options (I personally like the Divine Counterspell). In fact, being able to Spontaneously cast the Vigor line of spells seems like something that could be enabled by a Feat, rather than an alternate class ability (so it can be available to Druids, as well). Maybe something like: Vigorous Faith (General) Benefit: You may lose any prepared divine spell slot to cast a spell with "Vigor" in the name of the same level. Certainly doesn't seem overpowered for a feat. Of course, if you are looking for ways to turn Turning into Healing, Sacred Healing is a great feat. It allows you to turn your Turn attempts into Fast Healing for the entire party. I think it's in Complete Divine - check it out, you may like it. Good luck, and have fun! - Johnny
vorpo 10-11-07, 07:24 PM	Turn undead can be used to power divine feats. While vigor spells are nice, I can see cleric spontaneously cast vigor instead of cure but not at the sacrifice of turning. On the other hand, you can just make a feat that allows spontaneous vigor spells much the same way there is spontaneous domain spell feat.
vorpo 10-11-07, 07:25 PM	Vigorous Faith (General) Benefit: You may lose any prepared divine spell slot to cast a spell with "Vigor" in the name of the same level. That's what I was talking about :P
iuchiban 10-11-07, 07:38 PM	Thanks guys, those are excellent replies! I really like the idea of a feat; that's a rather elegant solution. And has the bonus of, as you say, making it an ability for any Divine caster, not just a cleric. That certainly sounds like a suitable power level to me. I'll link this thread to my GM, and see what he makes of the suggestions =) Thanks again for the feedback; much appreciated!
danielinthewolvesden 10-12-07, 02:29 AM	Yeah, just a Feat.