Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thermanshs 04-13-04, 11:59 AM	Here's my attempt to create a different variety of clerics when the core cleric most times leads to the war priest's concept.Armor,weapon proficiency,lots o' HP bla...bla...and for whom?Do all these Nerull's psychos,Obad's hermits or Fharlanghn's wanderers organise in priesthoods or have the chance to practice in the martial arts?A deity's servant SHOULD differ from another's and I'm giving a start for a real change. Take note that this isn't an attempt to weaken the currently overpowered cleric nor to estabilish my point of view,these variants are completely optional and I hope they're gonna help in Role-playing and add flavor to the plain war priest. So whoever thinks that some abilities or modifications don't match a cleric build can pass his ideas but other malicious "intruders" aren't welcome. The deities are presented in alphabetical order and a title is given to their servants as well.New abilities are written in italics. Boccob's Mysticist: As core except: -Weapon proficiencies limited to:Quarterstaff,dagger,crossbow -Armor Proficiencies dropped to:Medium without shields "Clerics of Boccob rarely get involved in combat situations and their training gives them only the basics to stand on their feet." - +1 spell/day at every spell level (derived from the cleric spell list) -Cost to craft magic items reduced by 20% (and therefore XP expenditure reduced as well) "A mysticist focuses in the study of the magic arts and its secrets lie handy in his temple's endless libraries." Corellon Larethian's Lorekeeper As core except: -Bardic knowledge available at level 1 (Cleric level=1/2 Bard's level for this purpose) "Lorekeepers constantly seek ways to enlighten their brethren" Ehlonna's Hound As core except: -Armor proficiencies dropped to:Medium "Heavy armor is a trouble in the woodlands and Hounds prefer to retain their agility to prevent natural harms." -Saves:Fortitude dropped to poor,Reflex raised to High. -Woodland stride(druidic ability) given at 2nd level. -Speak with plants 1/day starting at 1st level.Caster level=Cleric level.This is a spell-like ability that provokes attacks of opportunity. Erythnull's Brute As core except: -Saves:Will dropped to poor "Brutes act mindlessly and passionately rather than methodically.Their mental resistance is easy to come by especially when in combat." -Can't turn Undead "Creature's that don't bleed draw little attention on Brutes." -Bloodthirst:Every time a Brute in bloodthirst deals damage physically,the same amount of damage dealt is gained in temporary HP for the duration of the bloodthirst (it can't be ended voluntarily).This is a suprenatural ability and it's usable 1/day lasting for 1 round/cleric level.Also bloodthirst doesn't work on creatures immune to criticals (for their lack of blood). The Brute can enter a bloodthirst 2/day at level 10 and 3/day at level 20 Fharlanghn's Wanderer As core except: -Armor proficiency dropped to:light Heavy armor=Heavy burden in the traveler's life. -Craft relic: During their prayers in their life-lasting journeys a wanderer leaves behind Fharlaghn's bless to the roads,a holy relic left on his path to protect nearby passengers or some kind of mark during the Wanderer's travels.This table-like relic needs 1gp worth of materials to craft and most times serves as a place to drop a few coins for the poor to come by. Despite this social offerig of a relic's usage the Wanderer has a special bond with his relics and all places he's passed from.At level 1 the wanderer may,once per day,as a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity,teleport to one of his relics left behind.By level 5 he may also teleport in the distance between them wherever he wishes so and by level 9 he may teleprt in wherever of an area surrounded by relics.For example if a Wanderer traveled Africa coast by coast and left relics on every corner of that continent he could then teleport in whatever place of it he wished to,from the tropical forests to the highest peaks. The maximum weight of items a wanderer could transfer with him cannot exceed his maximum load. This is a spell-like ability Garl Glittergold's Lorekeeper As core except: -Luck of the Nugget:Upon every day's prayer,a Lorekeeper's nugget (holy symbol) pops out a valuable item (gem,masterpiece,coin,spell component) which value equals 1gp/level starting at 1st level. This is an extraordinary ability -Armor proficiencies dropped to:Medium -Bardic knowledge available at level 1 (Cleric level=1/2 Bard's level for this purpose) "Lorekeepers constantly seek ways to enlighten their brethren" -Skills:Spellcraft and Craft are now cross-class skills. "A Lorekeeper's role in a gnomish society needs somewhat more care for teaching Garl's word or Protecting their country so little time is free to spend on their families' crafts." Gruumsh's Witch As core Heironeous' Ironhand As core Hextor's Tyrant As core Kord's Gladiator As core (...Tired huh?) Moradin's Lorekeeper As core except: -Bardic knowledge available at level 1 (Cleric level=1/2 Bard's level for this purpose) "Lorekeepers constantly seek ways to enlighten their brethren" Nerull's Reaver As core except: -Armor Proficiency dropped to:Light -Skills: Diplomacy is now a cross-class skill. "Reavers rarely train for combat,their minds are devoted to their goals and social affairs are sparse in their self-sufficient life." -Saves:Fortitude dropped to poor "A Reaver's bodily resistance brings him one step closer to his deity's realm." -Improved death touch:A creature killed by the Reaver's death touch can't be restored back to life with any ressurection or raise dead spell.His soul is now bound to Nerull's service.The only way to bring the soul back is via a wish or miraclespell.Also raising the corpse into an undead creature requires no material components.This ability is automatically gained with the selection of the death domain. -Improved Turning(Rebuking in this case) feat for free at 1st level."The Reaver's energy channelling is far more powerful than that of a common cleric." Obad Hai's Seed As core except: -Armor proficiency dropped to:None without shields "Obad Hai's philoshophy considers arms to be lifecutters and no such means should be used to maintain nature's balance." -Endure elements always active."The Seed can easily survive in any harsh enviroment."This is a supernatural ability that is given at 3rd level. -Green Spirit Companion:At 1st level the Seed starts with the living spirit of dead animal or plant as a companion(living on the ethereal plane).This embodied spirit wanders the wilds seeking for someone to adopt it and tie with its ethereal nature.Whoever proves worthy enough as chosen by the spirit is given the opportunity to follow Obad Hai's path.The green spirit's stats are as follows: Green Spirit Small Fey(Ethereal) HD:1D6+1 (5) Initiative:+3(Dex) Speed:Fly 40 ft.(good) AC:14(+1 size,+3 Dex) [Flat Footed 10, Touch 13] Base Attack/Grapple:+0/+0 Attack:Slam +0 melee for 1D3-1 damage Space/Reach:5 ft./5 ft. Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft.,Ethereal Jaunt,SR 5+Master's level,Comprehend Languages Saves:Fort:+1,Ref:+5,Will:+4 Abilities:Str 9,Dex 16,Con 13,Int 10,Wis 14,Cha 13 Skills:Handle Animal +5,Knowledge(Nature) +5,Listen +8,Perform(Act) +5,Sense Motive +6,Spot +8,Survival +6 Feats:Alertness Alignment:Always Neutral Advancement:1-5 HD(small),6-10 HD(Medium),11-15 HD(Large),16-20 HD(Huge),21-25 HD(Gargantuan),26-30 HD(Colossal) Additional Information: A green spirit resembles a hazy greenish,humanlike creature.It's speechless but it understands all spoken and written languages due to its always-active comprehend languages,supernatural ability.The only way to understand a green spirit's will is through its pantomiming.A green spirit can't read or write. It lives on the ethereal plane but it can manifest the material plane as a free action with its ethereal jaunt supernatural ability.Turning back ethereal is a move-equivalent action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. The green spirit advances in HD as its master advances in levels.It advances in fey levels only though it gains all benefits for size increases,feats,skill points and ability increases. Olidammara's Guildmaster As core except: -Saves:Fortitude dropped to poor -Spells:The prime ability needed for spellcasting is Intelligence to a Guildmaster.So revert all spellcasting-related benefits that Wisdom grants the Guildmaster to Intelligence-dependent."Olidammara's servants are cunning...long thinking and judging are for the Dull Lorekeepers they say." Pelor's Brightsoul As core St.Cuthbert's Justicar(yes I know...that's in the Complete Warrior's Handbook but that's the one that fits best) As core Vecna's Vulture As core except: -HD dropped to:d6 -Armor Proficiencies dropped to:Medium -Weapon Proficiencies dropped to:All light melee weapons from the simple weapons' list. "Another deity whose servants find other methods to dominate the world around them." -Screech:Once per day as a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity,the Vulture may emit an ear-splitting screech that deafens all creatures in a 20 ft. radius centered on him unless they succeed on a Fortitude save DC=10+1/2 Cleric levels+Wis modifier.The spell can't affect creatures that have twice or more the vulture's levels (cleric levels).This is a spell-like ability available at 1st level. -Torment's Echoes:The Echoes of the Maimed Lord's torment always surround the Vulture.The Vulture can (de-)activate this ability as a free action but otherwise it imitates the effect of a ghost sound spell (for sound volume purposes) only that the echoes always seem to recede within the Vulture.The Caster level equals the Cleric level(maximum 30 instead of 20) and no Will(disbeleif) save is allowed,the echoes are 100% real. Despites all cosmetical effects this ability might cause, when active, the vluture radiates an aura of fear (30 ft. radius) This ability functions like the fear spell (CL=cleric level) only that it cannot affect creatures who's HD are equal to or higher than the vulture's (cleric levels). This is a supernatural ability available at 3rd level. Wee Jas' Kabal As core except: -Spontaneous inflict wounds taken away. -Deathwatch always active starting at 1st level.The Kabal delights in striking the weak and gifting them to his Greedy Godess.This is a supernatural ability which can be (de-)activated as a free action. Yondalla's Father/Mother Sharpwit As core except: -Skills:Sense Motive and Gather Information are now class-skills Skill points per level assigned to 4+intelligence modifier(and quadruple that amount at 1st level as normal) "A sharpwit cares for the blending and social affairs of his race with others" -Armor proficiencies dropped to:Medium Any opinions guys?How did they sound like?
Thermanshs 04-14-04, 04:12 AM	I can't beleive that it passed unnoticed!Hasn't anyone of you out there encountered the same problem as I did?
RoastSlinky 04-14-04, 04:22 AM	It's an interesting idea... however, I think that the variants could be a little more different, and there should be NO "as core" versions.
Thermanshs 04-14-04, 04:27 AM	Well the war priest's concept is pretty well ALREADY met by clerics serving deities of warfare/slaughter and organized priesthoods whose role is combat backup as well.I wouldn't like to create something so drastic,just make some things more appealing to clerics who serve a completely different purpose
Piraatje 04-14-04, 06:56 AM	Small, optional (and mostly cosmetical) changes to core classes are mostly game enhancing. Why? It gives characters that bit of extra flavour without changing game mechanics or prestige classes. Go for it =) Just let the players decide if he wants to use it or not.
Kaalan 04-14-04, 10:19 AM	Olidammara's Guildmaster + wizard + mystic theurge = badass
Thermanshs 04-14-04, 12:30 PM	Well...if I were to pass these as "optional" for my party I wouldn't ask for your opinions...theirs would be more than enough.I'm thinkin' on estabilishing this cleric system on my campaigns because the core one has lots of leakings as I've shown above
Thermanshs 04-14-04, 12:30 PM	double post...
Thermanshs 04-14-04, 09:18 PM	:bump: I still need more opinions for the change I'm about to make
Piraatje 04-15-04, 02:07 AM	This variant does not really affect game balance; you give a bit and you take a bit. This variant does add flavour. This variant makes more powerfull clerics. Why? Because you give players the option to 'tinker' a bit, chosing the optimal cleric variant. If you want to 'every cleric is the same' thingie gone, you might not only do this but also tinker with their spelllists. A cleric of Boccob can still cast Divine Power, Divine Favor, Righteous Might and beat up people with his quarterstaff very decently.
Thermanshs 04-15-04, 06:58 AM	Originally posted by Piraatje If you want to 'every cleric is the same' thingie gone, you might not only do this but also tinker with their spelllists. A cleric of Boccob can still cast Divine Power, Divine Favor, Righteous Might and beat up people with his quarterstaff very decently. As I said...I tried not to make such a drastic change just to make my variants more appealing.Messing with spells needs a lot more effort and gaming experience deciding things like: "Is it balanced?" "Does it match the concept I intended to make?" So a cleric still remains a cleric although a player now has a lot better an impression how does he look like,what his interests,personality is,how did he end up being cleric etc. This variant makes more powerfull clerics. Why? Because you give players the option to 'tinker' a bit, chosing the optimal cleric variant. I wouldn't call them "more powerful"...."easier to min-max" I think suits better....
Thermanshs 04-15-04, 06:58 AM	I suffer from double-clicking "submit-post-reply" addiction
Thelon Fairblade 04-15-04, 09:53 AM	Farlahgnanoogie's Wanderer's Relic power is great. Teleport at 1st level? Way out of league. Garl Glittergold has Spellcraft and Craft moved out to cross-class? Why would a practicing cleric lose skill-access to Spellcraft? On the other hand, 1gp/lvl/day is something that might get out of hand: Wizard = "I need a week to craft Fighter's new +2 sword." Cleric = "Cool, I'll sit around drinking. That's 48 gold for me!" Not too worrisome at 6th level. Wizard = "I need a month to craft Fighter's new +5 Vorpal sword." Cleric = "Cool, that's 600 gp for me..." (Okay, I guess 600 gp isn't much for a 20th level character... but just for sitting around, as a class ability? Hmm...) Erythnull's Bloodthirst needs more definition. Do his temporary hit points "reset" with every hit? Stack? Only one time, when the power is activated? everytime he runs out of a "batch" of temp hp? Boccob's Mysticist: Sign me up! Extra spells and reduced magic item cost, as a trade for Heavy Armor and most weapons? I would say as a trade for *all* armor and most weapons. Nerull's Reaver I like. Seems balanced (maybe underpowered?), and stylish. Loss of a sav and restricted to Light armor, in exchange for stronger turning (only matters as 1st and 2nd level) and the "can't be raised, easy undead" Death Touch. Very nice. Might want to specify, though, that the Reaver *must* take Death as one of his Domains... Ditto on Olidammara/Wiz/MT... perhaps you might want to make it CHA based instead of INT. But that leaves you open to Oli/Sorc/MT... You could hybrid it. WIS grants bonus spells, but INT grants DC? Vecna's Vulture is creative, but seriously underpowered. Give up armor and hp, in exchange for a preset Ghost Sound that can't be manipulated, and a Deafen attack? No thanks. Yondalla and Wee Jas I like. I also agree with the a previous post; only a War cleric should match the "Core" cleric. Another angle to take, though, would be to follow in 2e's footsteps... all faiths have a "Core cleric", but they each have a Specialty Priesthood as well, which is a variant more specific to the god. So you might have Boccob clerics and Boccob Mystics both wandering about in the world.
Thermanshs 04-15-04, 06:57 PM	Originally posted by Thelon Fairblade Farlahgnanoogie's Wanderer's Relic power is great. Teleport at 1st level? Way out of league. 1st level yes...how much do you think he might have travelled in the start of his adventuring life?It's a really limited version of teleport which expands with time...and travelling of course! Garl Glittergold has Spellcraft and Craft moved out to cross-class? Why would a practicing cleric lose skill-access to Spellcraft? On the other hand, 1gp/lvl/day is something that might get out of hand: Wizard = "I need a week to craft Fighter's new +2 sword." Cleric = "Cool, I'll sit around drinking. That's 48 gold for me!" Not too worrisome at 6th level. Adventuring is much more rewarding...beleive me...if you just sit down waiting for days to pass you've probably lost the best opportunities for dungeon delving,treasure hunting etc.As for the rearranged skills, I think I already gave an explanation...despite from clerics,they're key members of society too. Wizard = "I need a month to craft Fighter's new +5 Vorpal sword." Cleric = "Cool, that's 600 gp for me..." (Okay, I guess 600 gp isn't much for a 20th level character...) You're right...as I said at the top of this...most modifications are made for flavor only Erythnull's Bloodthirst needs more definition. Do his temporary hit points "reset" with every hit? Stack? Only one time, when the power is activated? everytime he runs out of a "batch" of temp hp? Of course they stack with each other...why did you think I've set so much panalties to the Brute?Imagine a buffed Brute with multiple attacks...:D.All others I think are pretty wel explained...you add temp. HP for as long as you're in a bloodthirst which means 1round/level per day and you can't end it voluntarily...just like a rage.The temp. HP also last for as long as you're in a bloodthirst and they stack with every other source of temp. HP bonus. Too powerful?...Everyone has its tricks...;) Boccob's Mysticist: Sign me up! Extra spells and reduced magic item cost, as a trade for Heavy Armor and most weapons? I would say as a trade for *all* armor and most weapons. Yes but you have to count that he must expend lots of feat slots(some have been already sucked out) if you'd like to be a crafting machine...despites...the reduce isn't as much significant... So does the bonus spells per day...lets say you have a 6th level Mysticist with 20 Wisdom.His spells per day would be(starting with 0 level spells) 6/7/6/5 instead of 5/6/5/4....not even an 20% raise Nerull's Reaver I like. Seems balanced (maybe underpowered?), and stylish. Loss of a sav and restricted to Light armor, in exchange for stronger turning (only matters as 1st and 2nd level) and the "can't be raised, easy undead" Death Touch. Very nice. Might want to specify, though, that the Reaver *must* take Death as one of his Domains... Yeah! That's one of ma favorites too and I'd have to agree at some point that he might be underpowered...Unless you're facing terrible opponents (likely to be raised and hunt you down again) every day this ability doesn't worth much.... I clarified that the imp.death touch ability is gained with the selection of the death dom.Hey!That's essential for Nerull's servant as much as it is for a fighter to select Weapon Spec. as early as possible...some paths are "partially" optional I'd have to admit that... Ditto on Olidammara/Wiz/MT... perhaps you might want to make it CHA based instead of INT. But that leaves you open to Oli/Sorc/MT... You could hybrid it. WIS grants bonus spells, but INT grants DC? Interesting but complex...drastic changes make most people run away from core variants Vecna's Vulture is creative, but seriously underpowered. Give up armor and hp, in exchange for a preset Ghost Sound that can't be manipulated, and Deafen attack? No thanks. That sounds reasonable enough...what if not dropping the HP? And ghost sound CAN be manipulated...check it again Yondalla and Wee Jas I like. Yes...these two suffered the least modifications if any to others... I also agree with the a previous post; only a War cleric should match the "Core" cleric. Another angle to take, though, would be to follow in 2e's footsteps... all faiths have a "Core cleric", but they each have a Specialty Priesthood as well, which is a variant more specific to the god. So you might have Boccob clerics and Boccob Mystics both wandering about in the world. Excuse me but I've got no idea of 2nd edition rules...these rules even better match a cleric's class table...at least not every change in 3.X was made for a reason
Mountainking 04-15-04, 08:45 PM	Very interesting thoughts... I can't say I agree with every change you made, but I think you're going in the right direction. Ever since 1st ed., I have had an enormous problem with the cleric class, mainly because it has been (and still is) based on the Christian fighter-priest of the middle ages and a few biblical tidbits -- for example, the old rule that clerics could use only blunt weapons (a hold-over from the Crusades used to get around a "no blood shedding" religious dictum...apparently head-smashing and bone-crunching was perfectly acceptable), and silly spells like sticks-to-snakes, straight out of Charlton Heston's Exodus. Moreover, there was never any wiggle room for clerics of different deities. What does a cleric or Gruumsh have in common with Pelor? Next to nothing, except a desire to smite the other. Hence, I think you're definitely onto something cool. You could really work with this, change spell lists around, etc.
Thermanshs 04-15-04, 08:50 PM	Mt.King...100% agreed with all you said but changing a spell list may be risky...read above to know why... Which things did you finally think didn't make sense? ps.Cool nick by the way...another W3 fan?
Thelon Fairblade 04-16-04, 09:01 AM	Ffarhlagnoogie's Wanderer: For 1 gp (the only cost, not even XP!), the 1st level cleric can teleport from the dungeon directly back to town. Unacceptably powerful at 1st level. By 5th level, I would fully expect the cleric to have bought or rented a horse and ridden to all nearby towns, stopped off at most convienent temples and stores, and all his friends' homes. Call it, oh, 30 locations for a cost of 30 gold. Spend 1 gold at the current dungeon site, and bam, you can teleport home/store with loot, then back to the dungeon to keep going. The wizard won't be doing this for 4 more levels.... Do you see my point now? Glittergold's power, in retrospect, is just flavor that buys beer at whatever level the character is. No problems with it. Bloodthirst: Take 8th level cleric. Say, attack bonuses +11/+6, damage d6+5/d6+5. Likely to get 1 hit each round, for average 8.5 damage. So, according to the way you wrote the power, the Brute will be getting 8 points of "healing" every round - better than pretty much any creature's Fast Healing power! (I won't get into the balances between temp hp and actual healing.) A Barbarian's rage gives him 2hp per level, and takes them away at the end of the rage. Your bloodthirst gives 3-8 hp *each round*, and they aren't taken away at the end. I would rather see this function as "the amount of damage scored on the hit that triggers the bloodthirst as temp hp, plus 1 additional stacking temp HP with each further successful hit-for-damage during the bloodthirst". (I.e. hitting a creature whose DR you can't penetrate has no bloodthirst effect.) The Vulture is underpowerd (compared to a normal cleric). The Echo ability is not a true ghost sound ability (can only be turned on and off, always centerd on priest). He gives up armor, hp, and weapons for a weak Deafening attack. The Obad Hai's Green Spirit companion should not advance a HD at the same rate as the cleric gains levels. It should advance - at best! - according to the druid's animal companion (roughly 1 per 3 levels I think). And the druid's animal companion doesn't "Advance" sizes either. Otherwise, too powerful as an extra ability for a class with full spellcasting access.
Thermanshs 04-16-04, 09:31 AM	Originally posted by Thelon Fairblade Ffarhlagnoogie's Wanderer: For 1 gp (the only cost, not even XP!), the 1st level cleric can teleport from the dungeon directly back to town. Unacceptably powerful at 1st level. As I said before...everyone has his tricks.But you didn't notice the "during their prayers" description...that means only once per day is he able to craft a relic By 5th level, I would fully expect the cleric to have bought or rented a horse and ridden to all nearby towns, stopped off at most convienent temples and stores, and all his friends' homes. Call it, oh, 30 locations for a cost of 30 gold. Yeah that's really practical but ...does it really seem so overpowered?If escaping danger it does but otherwise just remains...practical Spend 1 gold at the current dungeon site, and bam, you can teleport home/store with loot, then back to the dungeon to keep going. Only once per day...it's specifically stated...if he'd have to leave the rest of the party without a healer looking to save his ass...that's a big dilemma Do you see my point now? You gave some good examples of abusing this ability but...who doesn't abuse others such as evasion,disease immunity bla...bla Glittergold's power, in retrospect, is just flavor that buys beer at whatever level the character is. No problems with it. :D A Barbarian's rage gives him 2hp per level, and takes them away at the end of the rage. Your bloodthirst gives 3-8 hp *each round*, and they aren't taken away at the end. Yes but rage is an extraordinary ability(usable in an antimagic field),it has no chance of failure and the HP bonus is "fixed" from the start...it also advances with greater/mighty rage.The Brute would have to:Buff before bloodthirst because his BAB is worse than the barbarian's and hope all of his attacks succeed.Despites it doesn't work on many creatures still imposing an AC penalty being further more vulnerable than he currently is(will save poor).Also undead seem to overwhelm a party held by a Brute.No turning and no bloodthirst. Anyway...I admit that I designed the "bloodthirst" a bit hastily so I might restrict it somehow if playtesting proves it overpowered. The Vulture is underpowerd (compared to a normal cleric). The Echo ability is not a true ghost sound ability (can only be turned on and off, always centerd on priest). He gives up armor, hp, and weapons for a weak Deafening attack. Agreed...I'll raise the HP to d8 then The Obad Hai's Green Spirit companion ...bla...bla... Otherwise, too powerful as an extra ability for a class with full spellcasting access. I still think it's a fair tradeoff.Note that the Seed can't fight or protect himself otherwise physically...this spirit becomes his shield and his mace.I may drop the size progression to 1 step larger per 6 or 7 levels instead of 5
Demon Lightfoot 04-16-04, 09:37 AM	Farfignewton's Wanderer: Maybe if you make it 1/week at 1st level, 2/week at 5th or 6th level, 3/week at 9th or 11th level, and so on in that manner, it'd work better. I'd up the cost, definitely, maybe 10, 100 or 1000 gp/1 mile range/radius.
Thermanshs 04-16-04, 09:52 AM	Originally posted by Demon Lightfoot Farfignewton's Wanderer: Maybe if you make it 1/week at 1st level, 2/week at 5th or 6th level, 3/week at 9th or 11th level, and so on in that manner, it'd work better. Hmmm...that sounds better.... -Manyx:So it is then!
Thermanshs 12-03-04, 10:35 PM	Back from the grave I rise this since we're starting a new campaign on sunday and I'm thinkin of solidifying this cleric system on my campaigns
mermin_8403 12-04-04, 01:06 AM	Farfignewton's Wanderer: Maybe if you make it 1/week at 1st level, 2/week at 5th or 6th level, 3/week at 9th or 11th level, and so on in that manner, it'd work better. I'd up the cost, definitely, maybe 10, 100 or 1000 gp/1 mile range/radius. Or you could make it only self and some amount of weight in items. becomes more difficult to use to break game mechanics.
Stuntman 12-04-04, 02:33 AM	I really like your idea. It reminds me of the Complete Cleric's Handbook from 2E where every cleric has different armour and weapon proficiencies and different spell lists. This gives much more flavour to clerics of different deities. It's too bad you can't go further with the differences, but I guess you would then need to write a separate book covering all of these differences. Then every campaign setting would then also need its own book for all of the cleric variant.
Thermanshs 12-04-04, 08:44 AM	Or you could make it only self and some amount of weight in items. Maybe it doesn't show well in my description but it ALREADY IS self only. As for the weight carried....I'm workin on it now...thanks a lot well...I'd love if WotC made the clerics more diverse from one another...but at this moment this is all I can do...if these changes sound appealing to the community (and most importantly my players) maybe I'm gonna delve more into this concept messing further with spells
Thermanshs 12-05-04, 12:13 PM	Many argues rose especially for the Brute and the Seed from ma players...I'd appreciate if you took a look on them and shared your opinion with us
Angel Black 04-06-05, 07:51 PM	A God of a foreigner Pantheon: Cultist of Banjo the Clown (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=80), God of Puppets Weapon/armor : Proficient with rapier,sap, short sword, shortbow, and whip.Also is proficient with light armors and shields skills:add Perform skill as class skill 1/day: Banjo smites infidel, spell-like ability ( A little thunder storm that acts as a Chaos Hammer, at first level of class deals one point of holy damage, and for each 4 class levels gets a +1d6 damage bonus, victim gets shaken for 1d8 rounds)
Tony Vargas 04-06-05, 08:09 PM	I can't beleive that it passed unnoticed!Hasn't anyone of you out there encountered the same problem as I did? I did, and had a similar solution, swapping around weapon and armor proficiencies - and also heavily modifying spell lists, for that matter - but that was for 1E. In 3E, I find that domains generally help differentiate clerics enough.
DM Denubis 04-06-05, 10:42 PM	Warning! Incoming shameless plug! Take a look at the cleric varient in my signature, if you would. It might be what you're looking for. And it could use a bump from someone that's not me. :bigeyes:
Nephlite 04-06-05, 11:05 PM	Erythnull's Brute As core except: -Saves:Will dropped to poor "Brutes act mindlessly and passionately rather than methodically.Their mental resistance is easy to come by especially when in combat." -Can't turn Undead "Creature's that don't bleed draw little attention on Brutes." -Bloodthirst:Every time a Brute in bloodthirst deals damage physically,the same amount of damage dealt is gained in temporary HP for the duration of the bloodthirst (it can't be ended voluntarily).This is a suprenatural ability and it's usable 1/day lasting for 1 round/cleric level.Also bloodthirst doesn't work on creatures immune to criticals (for their lack of blood). Decent, though too bad it isn't 1/day + 1 every 10 levels of cleric. So at level 10 it can used twice, 3 times at level 20. Trust me a cleric fighting at level 20 isn't overpowered(spellcaster are anyway with death spells). Garl Glittergold's Lorekeeper As core except: -Luck of the Nugget:Upon every day's prayer,a Lorekeeper's nugget (holy symbol) pops out a valuable item (gem,masterpiece,coin,spell component) which value equals 1gp/level starting at 1st level. This is an extraordinary ability -Skills:Spellcraft and Craft are now cross-class skills. "A Lorekeeper's role in a gnomish society needs somewhat more care for teaching Garl's word or Protecting their country so little time is free to spend on their families' crafts." Gnomes are great at Crafting in lore so this is weird. Spellcraft and is recognizing the magic symbols and stuff being cast at you (example for use in dispel magic). So You shouldn't lose Spellcraft, how about a circumstance penalty of - 1 /level or -1/ 2 levels? Gruumsh's Witch As core Gruumush's don't use witches... Witches don't have flashy attack spells look at the witch in DMG. Moradin's Lorekeeper As core (...Tired huh?) As a Lore keeper, he should lose shield use because Moradin perfers his clerics to keep hands at the ready or for 2 handing a weapon. In exchange he should gain Bardic Knowledge/Lore of Loremaster at 1/2 Cleric level. But eh, I'm not a dwarf fan anyway. Wee Jas' Kabal As core except: -Spontaneous inflict wounds taken away. -Deathwatch always active starting at 3rd level.The Kabal delights in striking the weak and gifting them to his Greedy Godess.This is a supernatural ability which can be (de-)activated as a free action. Why taking away Spontanous inflict...? Does he get Spontanous healing in exchange? I mean I lose Spontanous power for at least 2 levels than? If you take it away for nothing at same level; than Death watch needs to be there at level 1. Otherwise you are cheating the Wee Ja followers. Wee Jas isn't greedy. She is merciful and kind. And she isn't rewarding me to say that.
Thermanshs 05-10-05, 03:38 PM	Decent, though too bad it isn't 1/day + 1 every 10 levels of cleric. So at level 10 it can used twice, 3 times at level 20. Trust me a cleric fighting at level 20 isn't overpowered(spellcaster are anyway with death spells). Interesting...changes in progress Gnomes are great at Crafting in lore so this is weird. Spellcraft and is recognizing the magic symbols and stuff being cast at you (example for use in dispel magic). So You shouldn't lose Spellcraft, how about a circumstance penalty of - 1 /level or -1/ 2 levels? Gnomes in general might be great crafters but Gnome clerics aren't tied to that. As for Spellcraft...I don't think it's that much of a penalty since the cleric has few skill pts to spend on that anyways Gruumush's don't use witches... Witches don't have flashy attack spells look at the witch in DMG. This is different from the Witch class in the DMG, it's only a title given to Gruumsh's followers which shows a more "primal" spellcaster,thing that orcs resemble As a Lore keeper, he should lose shield use because Moradin perfers his clerics to keep hands at the ready or for 2 handing a weapon. I don't think that this makes much sense... In exchange he should gain Bardic Knowledge/Lore of Loremaster at 1/2 Cleric level. But eh, I'm not a dwarf fan anyway. Hmmm...GREAT IDEA! Why taking away Spontanous inflict...? Does he get Spontanous healing in exchange? To be honest I found no other way to balance the deathwatch...if you have something to propose...I'm all ears I mean I lose Spontanous power for at least 2 levels than? Ok...deathwatch active right from level 1!
Angel Black 06-07-05, 06:32 PM	Gods of a foreign Land...2 Priests of Fish (http://www.geocities.com/adze42/), the God of Fishermen No Turn undead (Fish cares about .. uh fishes) No Heavy Armor (Because with all that noise is really hard get fishes) You get Skill Focus( Fishing ) and a +2 bonus to Search & Spot fishes
Angel Black 12-14-05, 03:05 PM	*bump* Because this is interesting