Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Plothos 04-15-06, 04:45 PM	Am I reading this right?: At seventh level, after taking the spell focus (conjuration) feat, a cleric can become a Thaumaturgist, and take 5 levels in that up to CL12. Then, because his spellcasting ability has improved, he's still basically a 12th level cleric with better summons and a slightly worse BAB. Now he uses planar ally and his planar cohort ability to gain a Ghaele as a cohort. Ghaele is listed in an online SRD as having 10HD and no level adjustment, so he's got an ECL 10, meaning he's legal for a 12th level thaumaturgist to take as his cohort. But the Ghaele is incredibly powerful. Far moreso than the cleric. In fact, it casts spells as a 14th level cleric! It also has tons of at will spell like abilities and special qualities up the wazoo. This just seems way too powerful an ability for a 12th level PC. What have I misread. I know it's something, but I can't find it. Help!
Ikeren 04-15-06, 06:02 PM	Straight level 12 cleric: 11d8+8 average 57.5 hp 8/4/8 saves 9/4 BAB 12 level cleric casting. Feats can be wherever they want. Level 12 7 cleric/5 Theurge: 8+6d8+5d4 average 47.5 hp 6/3/9 saves 7/2 BAB 12 level cleric casting 1 required feat (Spell Focus, Conjuration) 5 less damage on "Turning Damage Check" It takes an offering of 1,000 gp x the HD of the creature to convince it to serve as a planar cohort, and the improved ally class feature can’t be used to reduce or eliminate this cost. The planar cohort can’t have more Hit Dice than the thaumaturgist has, and must have an ECL no higher than the thaumaturgist’s character level -2. 10000 gp cost. But truth be told, if you have been saving $$$ the last few levels, don't mind the practically useless feat, don't melee much, don't mind the turning hit...it is a pretty powerful trade off. Oh, and the HP cut. That is nasty. It really depends on what type of cleric you want to play. Do you want to play a front lines battle healer buffer who can still kick arse? Or do you want to play a "Look at me, I am the divine version of a wizard", character?
Plothos 04-15-06, 09:30 PM	Admittedly the HP, save, and BAB hits are not so great. But I'd take them 100% of the time to get a cohort in exchange who's far more powerful than my PC.
Ikeren 04-15-06, 09:38 PM	Another thing is, what happens when that cohort gets seperated, dies, distracted. You are a softer target... Or if you simply don't have the gold, the PRC isn't exactly uber strong... Plus it limits your alignment a bit - the thing won't take kindly to evil acts...it has limited scope in this aspect, as it most certainly won't be fighting anything good... Plus it is a cohort, not a follower. It may or may not take orders... And how will it level? Take cleric levels? Will a DM even let it level? Heck, a DM may even veto this from the get-go, and allow you to pick another monster or turn your last 5 levels into normal cleric levels... But yes, it has a lot of strong and neat abilities.
ClementWillowbreaker 04-15-06, 09:40 PM	A ghaele does not have a level adjustment of +0. It has a level adjustment of "-", meaning that it is unsuited as a PC and/or its ECL would be over 20. Compare it to any of the PHB races' listings in the MM to see the difference. WotC didn't even consider it a likely cohort, and thus didn't give it a (cohort) LA, like a Nightmare. It is up to the DM to decide the LA (or just cohort LA in the case of glowing balls of light) of creatures without listed ones, should it come up. Considering the Bralani on the same page is much weaker and has a listed LA+5, there is no way for a lvl12 character to get a ghaele as a cohort by any stretch of the imagination.
runestar 04-15-06, 11:59 PM	Ghaele has a LA of "-", meaning it is not suitable for PC use. Also, as per SS, it has a LA of +10, meaning a Ghaele without class lvs has an ECL of 20. You would have to be epic before you can acquire 1 as a cohort. The best you can do would be to acqure a weaker version of it(a partially lvled version from SS, but it would not have access to its full complement of powers).
malignor 04-16-06, 02:33 AM	ECL10 good outsiders - Aasamar + 8 class levels - Half-Celestial Azer - Half-Celestial Blink Dog - Half-Celestial Centaur - Half-Celestial Brass Dragon Wyrmling - Half-Celestial Giant Eagle - Half-Celestial Krenshar (advanced to 4 HD) - Half-Celestial Lizardfolk with 3 class levels - Half-Celestial Locathah with 3 class levels - Half-Celestial Merfolk with 4 class levels - Half-Celestial Giant Owl - Half-Celestial Pegasus - Half Celestial Pseudodragon (advanced to 3HD) ... and many more ECL = HD + LA + 4 (half-celestial LA modifier)
Jaxgaret 04-16-06, 10:46 PM	ECL10 good outsiders - Aasamar + 8 class levels Correction: Aasimar + 9 class levels. When the character takes its first class level, the 1 racial HD is ignored, so an Aasimar with 9 class levels is ECL 10.
runestar 04-16-06, 11:38 PM	I would sooner replace the half-celestial template with the celestial creature template and take more HD or class lvs. Too many lvs spent on LA and too little on HD - makes for a very fragile cohort that will wither away the moment some foe so much as breathes on it. :( Granted - it pays off at higher lvs, but I would just dismiss my existing cohort then and pay the resources for a newer, improved one.