Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jubmania 08-16-07, 06:50 AM	Time for another thread where I am confused about what to do with my character’s class build. =P Here’s the situation, hopefully I don’t leave anything important out… ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Class & Level: Cleric 1/Monk 3/Sacred Fist 9 ECL: 17 Race: Human/Half-Celestial Alignment: Lawful-Good Deity: N/A (Due to the campaign setting) Stats w/o Gear: · STR- 28 · DEX- 20 · CON- 20 · INT- 17 · WIS- 22 · CHA- 21 Base Attack: +11/6/1 Flurry of Blows: +25/25/20/15 Speed: 70ft (140ft Flight) Saves: · FOR- 17 · REF-18 · WIL- 15 AC: 40 DR: 10/Magic Important Items: · Stone of Alarm (3) · Luckstone · (Dusty Rose) Ioun Stone · Amulet of Mighty Fists (+3) · Cloak of Charisma (+6) · Ring of Protection (+2) · Ring of Protection (+2) · Gloves of Dexterity (+6) · Bracers of Armor (+8) · Belt of Giant Strength (+6) Gold remaining: 174,899 Domains: Glory & Courage Turn Undead: 11/day, +10 to check, and 3d6 +9 damage. Feats: · Combat Casting · Weapon Focus (Unarmed) · Dodge · Improved Trip · Defensive Throw · Fiery Fists · Combat Reflexes · Improved Unarmed Strike ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ok, now I hope I didn’t leave anything out. I’m sorry if I gave too much information, but I just wanted to try and cover everything. In the campaign, to keep it short, there are demons and apparitions all over the world. The campaign is a “Horror” theme, if that helps. As for my character, I thought I knew what I wanted to do but it seems like I’m kind of bland. It’s fairly hard for me to get hit, but it’s somewhat difficult for me to hit other things. I have my 4th level Cleric spells that I can cast, but they’re buffs and heals, and normally we don’t know when a battle is going to start, obviously. Is there anything that I can do with burning my spells to make my attack better or to put them into my fists, releasing the spell on impact; like with Daggerspell Mage? I was thinking about maybe just giving up on the theme I was leaning towards and just turn into more of a caster than a combination of the two. I cannot go over/under a class level of 13. Any ideas? Please let me know if you have any questions and I’ll be sure to check up on this for new replies. Thanks ahead of time. ^_^
Qube 08-16-07, 07:18 AM	lets see ... cast a inflict critical wounds and keep the charge on your hand. (that way the next touch attack ou make, deals 4d8+lvl). if your DM agrees, you could use an unarmed strike, and your first next succesfull unarmed attack deals additional damage :) . use metamagic (rods) to increase the duration of your spells I'dd possibly drop Weapon focus and belt + STR+6 for the feat weapon finesse ... magic weapon works on monks fists (though I don't know if it stacks with amulet of mighty fists) ring of protection does NOT stack with an other ring of protection. both are deflection bonusses. sry.
Jubmania 08-16-07, 07:27 AM	I was told by the DM that I cannot cast inflict spells because of the fact that I'm Half-Celestial. I also can't banish extra-planar creatures, according to him. I'm not sure if this is all based on the books or just his DM preference. My strength is higher than my dexterity, why would I want Weapon Finesse? I should look into the metamagic wand thing, but I don't know much about using wands. Thanks for pointing that Ring of Protection thing, I meant to add a question about that at the end of my post. The DM thought that they stacked and one of my more experienced friends disagreed.
Qube 08-16-07, 08:35 AM	I was told by the DM that I cannot cast inflict spells because of the fact that I'm Half-Celestial. I also can't banish extra-planar creatures, according to him. I'm not sure if this is all based on the books or just his DM preference. its flavor based. (though quite understandable). though I don't agree on the banishment thing: tacktic from Balors and other fiends, against planetraveling adventureres: banishment on them back to their original plane. (perhaps request to be able to banish demons and devils)My strength is higher than my dexterity, why would I want Weapon Finesse?indeed ... why is that? ...(I'dd kick out the belt of +6 str, use a book to poost our dex with +5. weaponfinesse is good because it also protects our attackbonus against (maximized empowered) ray of enfeeblement ... about the wands: 3 times per day, if you hold it in your hand (note that you can use other bodyparts then your hands for unarmed strike as a monk) you can cast a spell, and it is affected by the rod. example if you hold a lesser metamagic rod of maximize, and you cast a cure moderate wounds you can choose to cure 16+1/lvl instead of 2d8+1/lvl about the rings: - bonusses of same items don't stack (I don't know if this is a houserule, but if it is, its a good one) - almost all named bonusses don't stack (its a deflection bonus to AC)
The_Shaman 08-16-07, 08:50 AM	Wait, can you get into SFist with less than 5 class levels?
Jubmania 08-17-07, 04:07 AM	Thanks for the info on the wands...I'll have to talk to my DM about that. I said something to one of the other players earlier today about the Rings of Protection not stacking and he was surprised. I'll talk to the DM about that tomorrow and see what he says. As for the requirements for Sacred Fist, I wouldn't be surprised if I messed something up. I mess up stuff all the time; I'm still somewhat new to D&D. Thanks for pointing that out though. I could really use some more feedback everyone, so if you have any then let me know. I know people read these, I got a lot of help with my Pirate problems a month ago.
dman11235 08-17-07, 10:51 AM	Those domains aren't very good ones to have. I played a monk cleric a while ago with the healing and destruction domains (he was also exhalted). As you advance in levels, turning becomes useless, except for divine feats. The HD are way too high (also played many a cleric). Talk to your DM. Why can't you cast inflict spells again? The solars in the MM have cleric spellcasting, and one of their prepared spells is destruction. The planetar has harm and inflict critical wounds prepared. And their feaking angels. See Qube for my rant on banishment. Yes, you can do this at , but you left out a prereq. feat. You need stunning fist. You also need stunning fist for fiery fist (which is not that useful in my opinion) How are you getting 11 turn per day? On the same lines, check out the divine feats from CW and CDiv. A couple are combat related, like divine might, and therefor worth keeping a high cha. You NEED an amulet or lenses or something of wisdom. How you got this far without it, I don't know. Okay, hock the amulet of mighty fist and the belt of giant strength, get a +4 tome of dex and wisdom, and a +6 item of wisdom. Get rid of wp focus for intuitive attack to use your WISDOM and fiery fist for practices caster, and you will have upped your attack bonus by one, dropped your damage for now, but when you cast divine power you gain a +6 enhancement to strength. You still have a +3 unarmed strike thanks to magic weapon, greater. You still have money left over, infact, up the wisdom tome to a +5 and put your next stat point in there. This will up your AC by 9. Grab a monk's belt and you will do more damage, as well as up your AC by 1 more. As you have no resistance bonus, cast greater resistance every morning (SpC), and when you get 6th level spells, cast superior resistance. There are also quite a few spells with long durations that give you bonuses to AC or saves. This will make you neigh untouchable! Righteous might is level 5, but when you get it... Also hock the bracers of armor for rings of force armor (MiC). Free ghost touch fists and extra damage. Could you mark with a - what are your bonus feats? I want to get rid of defensive throw and improved trip for the most controversial feats on these here boards, okay, maybe not most, but still. Take extend spell and persist spell. This won't help now, but when you gain access to 7th level spells, you can persist a divine favor for a +3 attack and damage. Doesn't stack with other luck bonuses, but this is a higher bonus than most luck bonuses. Also ebon eyes is useful when persisted. And yet again, if your CL is high enough, which it will if you take practiced spellcaster, shield of faith is useful when persisted. This will let you hoch your ring of protection. Later still you will be able to persist higher spells like mass conviction (SpC). That ups your saves more. If you do these things, then you will be unkillable. After you finish with sacred fist what do you plan on doing? Hopefully cleric progression. Something like even a war priest would be fine. Or straight cleric. It would not hurt, however, to take a PrC that has poor BAB, like divine oracle, or contemplative, as divine power negates that. The problem with these is the low HD, which is partially overcome by divine power.
dman11235 08-17-07, 10:52 AM	Oh, almost forgot, why the high int? You don't need that much. Also, why can't you go past 13 class levels? Is there something special, or am I reading too much into this? Since you have no deity, and are a lawful good freaking half-celestial, the planning domain would work for both mechanics reasons and flavor reasons. And it gets you a free extend spell. That helps with the not knowing when a battle starts. Also, persist helps with that, which you can now take. Since I like planning ahead of time, I will let you know now that with a sufficient wisdom score (maxed out) and level 25, you can persist divine power. Also what helps get those buffs on quickly is a metamagic rod (not wand, rod) of quicken. A regular costs 70,000, so it's an investment, but the more you have, the better. Regular takes care of divine power and righteous might. Also see if you can pray for a new spell, owl's insight (SpC). It's a druid spell, but ask if you can pray for it for a cleric spell. If not, there's always miracle. That's what I ended up using. Also, the destruction domain works, as do the good, law, and war domains. Healing would work, celerity domain, or any exalted domain not prohibited to you. Also, time might be alright, and you get imp. initiative out of it!
Jubmania 08-18-07, 09:18 PM	Thanks for the very detailed and informative information, Dman. The DM wouldn't let me cast inflict spell because I am Half-Celestial and it seems against my nature. I do have Stunning Fist, but I put it in my Special Abilities section since I got it from being a Monk. I accidently put Combat Reflexes in the Feat section even though I got that from being a Monk too. My character sheet that I use says that the amount of times that I can turn per day is equal to 3 + CHA mod (My CHA mod is 8). What wisdom amulets or lenses are out there? I have the DMG on my computer, but sometimes I don't notice the items in other books. Something else that I forgot to mention was that any Major Wonderous items that we want take a while to make. The price of the item, divided by two, equals the number of days the item would take to be made. What's Intuitive Attack and Practices Caster? Also, what books are they in? Half-Celestials get Spell Resist (Mine is currently 23) and Acid/Cold/Electricity Resist of 10. I don't have the Magic Item Compendium, so I'll have to try and find it to look at these Rings of Force Armor. These were all the feats that I chose as Bonus Feats: · Combat Casting · Weapon Focus (Unarmed) · Dodge · Improved Trip · Defensive Throw · Fiery Fists After Sacred Fist, I have no idea what I want to do. I've looked through a bunch of different Prestige Classes trying to figure that out, but I'm somewhat stumped. Contemplative has a bunch of useless abilities for me since it basically progresses you into being a Celestial. While there are still one or two nice things, most of them are useless. I can't go past 13 class levels because that is what the DM said I start at. So you think that the Planning and Destruction domains would be the best combination for me? I don't know if my DM would allow me to Pray for the spell and Miracle is a REALLY high level spell. Let me know if you have any more questions. Anyone else reading this, feel free to give your two cents. =P
dman11235 08-19-07, 09:21 PM	It doesn't hurt to ask. So, contemplative is actually nice, since it doesn't advance you to a celestial, it makes you more in tune with your deity. It gives you a couple of immunities, and 2 bonus domains, which can be useful. The dream domain, or the pleasure domain are good choices, as is the time domain. Intuitive attack is BoED, and practiced spellcaster is in both CDiv and CArc. Wisdom to attacks, and +4 CL. And the wisdom items are a common effect item, with slots of eyes, throut, robe, or ring. The one from a source book is the periapt of wisdom, from the DMG. But you can make lenses of wisdom for no difference in the price. Oh, and you don't need an amulet of mighty fists, because greater magic weapon is a spell you can cast. Level 3? Toss it for a tome of wis +5, and a +6 item of widom. And a Dazzix's vest (DMGII). Oh, just see my earlier post on equipment, and circumventing no preparation, and using spells instead of equipment to save money. Oh, does your DM realize just how long that crafting will take? 20,000 days for the LEAST expensive major wounderous item. That's about 55 years. And what I mean by pray for the spell is make a new cleric spell, make it level 6 if you need to, but it is an amazing spell.
concerro 08-19-07, 10:15 PM	Time for another thread where I am confused about what to do with my character’s class build. =P Here’s the situation, hopefully I don’t leave anything important out… ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Class & Level: Cleric 1/Monk 3/Sacred Fist 9 ECL: 17 Race: Human/Half-Celestial Alignment: Lawful-Good Deity: N/A (Due to the campaign setting) Stats w/o Gear: · STR- 28 · DEX- 20 · CON- 20 · INT- 17 · WIS- 22 · CHA- 21 Base Attack: +11/6/1 Flurry of Blows: +25/25/20/15 Speed: 70ft (140ft Flight) Saves: · FOR- 17 · REF-18 · WIL- 15 AC: 40 DR: 10/Magic Important Items: · Stone of Alarm (3) · Luckstone · (Dusty Rose) Ioun Stone · Amulet of Mighty Fists (+3) · Cloak of Charisma (+6) · Ring of Protection (+2) · Ring of Protection (+2) · Gloves of Dexterity (+6) · Bracers of Armor (+8) · Belt of Giant Strength (+6) Gold remaining: 174,899 Domains: Glory & Courage Turn Undead: 11/day, +10 to check, and 3d6 +9 damage. Feats: · Combat Casting · Weapon Focus (Unarmed) · Dodge · Improved Trip · Defensive Throw · Fiery Fists · Combat Reflexes · Improved Unarmed Strike ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ok, now I hope I didn’t leave anything out. I’m sorry if I gave too much information, but I just wanted to try and cover everything. In the campaign, to keep it short, there are demons and apparitions all over the world. The campaign is a “Horror” theme, if that helps. As for my character, I thought I knew what I wanted to do but it seems like I’m kind of bland. It’s fairly hard for me to get hit, but it’s somewhat difficult for me to hit other things. I have my 4th level Cleric spells that I can cast, but they’re buffs and heals, and normally we don’t know when a battle is going to start, obviously. Is there anything that I can do with burning my spells to make my attack better or to put them into my fists, releasing the spell on impact; like with Daggerspell Mage? I was thinking about maybe just giving up on the theme I was leaning towards and just turn into more of a caster than a combination of the two. I cannot go over/under a class level of 13. Any ideas? Please let me know if you have any questions and I’ll be sure to check up on this for new replies. Thanks ahead of time. ^_^ (did not read all the post) why do you have 2 rings of protection?
dman11235 08-19-07, 10:38 PM	(did not read all the post) why do you have 2 rings of protection? It's already been adressed.
concerro 08-19-07, 10:56 PM	It's already been adressed. I see it has been handled. thanks
Razorstorm 08-20-07, 09:45 AM	It's very important to note here that you have indeed messed up the pre-reps for Sacred Fist. You must have +4 BAB, Stunning fist, Combat REflexes, imp unarmed strike, combat casting. The earliest way to enter this class is Monk 2/ Cleric 4, to maximize caster level. You could do Monk 3/ Cleric 3, or Monk 6/ Cleric 1, but why, they aren't as good. A good straight forward feat to consider is Fists of Iron, prereq +3 bab, but just gives you +1d6 to unarmed strikes all the time, nice to have. Intuitive Strike is a good suggestion if you want to minimize your dependance on different ability scores. Razorstorm
dman11235 08-20-07, 10:38 AM	The feat is intuitive attack, not strike. And fists of iron is worse than fiery ki fist, because you spend a stunning fist attempt to increase damage for one attack by 1d6, not all the time. If you want more damage, take improved natural attack (unarmed strike). It's much better. Also, cleric 4/monk 1 is probably better, as this way you get into the class earlier. You get IUS as a bonus, stunning fist from monk, combat casting from human, and combat ref. for level 1.
Jubmania 08-21-07, 04:07 AM	Dman, The Comtemplative is ok, but there's gotta be something better out there than that. If I wasn't already a Half-Celestial, then I would really consider that class. I screwed up with that formula for how many days you'd have to wait for the Major Wonderous item. You basically wack off all the 0's. ex.- Price of the item is 40,000 GP, then you'd have to wait 20 days for it. The Dazzix's Vest is decent, it'd give me +5 Spell Resist. The thing I'm more worried about at the moment isn't Spell Resist, it's Psionic attacks. Granted, the Spell Resist would be nice; I have yet to fight anything with Divine/Arcane spells, so the Psionic spells avoid Spell Resist. The DM told me that I can take a feat that would allow me to take Owl's Insight, but I need to be able to cast higher level spells first. Razorstorm, Monk's get bonus feats where they can choose Stunning Fist and Combat Reflexes. I stated earlier that I didn't list them in my feats list because they were special abilities I got from being a Monk, so I put them in that section on my character sheet. Improved Unarmed Strike is also a Monk special ability; which is why I didn't list it in feats. I also took Combat Casting, so the only thing I messed up on was the Base Attack. Someone in my gaming group brought up the Iron Fists feat. I never checked it out, but from what Dman says...it's not that good. I ended up going Cleric 2 / Monk 4. Dman & Razorstorm, Thanks for all the input. I have my character remade now, but I haven't taken the Rings of Force Armor or the Dazzix's Vest because I didn't have the books when I fixed my character. I don't know if I want to do the Rings of Force Armor though since it doesn't stack with my bracers. If I tossed my bracers, then I'd lose 3 AC. My current Flurry of Blows is 30/30/25/20 and my AC is 47. Anyone else who's reading this, feel free to let me know what you think. ^_^
dman11235 08-21-07, 11:50 AM	You can up the armor bonus on the rings of fore armor as per the table in the back of the book. I believ it costs 69,000 for rings or force armor +8. Be warned though, they take up both ring slots, so you'll have to put the deflection on one of them, as it is also a common effect. Is your DM doing psionics/magic transparency, or are they different. If it is transperancy (the much more common method) then SR applies to both spells and powers. If not, then you're skrewed (not totally, but still). If you aren't doing contemplative (which gets you some monk features that you would get later) then divine oracle would be my next pick. It nets you some sweet abilities, like uncanny dodge, and the oracle domain, which can be quite useful. But my suggestion is still in contemplative. It has a no feat as a prereq., and celestials can still become mystically closer to their deity (or cause). And really, these are the only two useful PrCs for clerics with full casting that I can think of that you can take. Most everything else that is full casting is deity specific. However, once you get to 20th level cleric spellcasting, take heirophant. It still boosts CL, but not spells per day. And that's half the time it normally takes for crafting. It is usually 1 day for 1,000 gp. You need to talk to your DM about a couple of things. One, Owl's Insight would follow spell developement rules as per the DMG. There shouldn't be a feat involved. It sounds like he's trying to say no. Two, there are a couple of things I noticed about the sacred fist: they can't be monks again, their AC bonus should stack with a monk's, and the speeds don't stack, but they do with the sample. These need to be fixed. Also, you may want to do one more level of monk, or two fewer (and put both of those levels into cleric). If you do one more, you will have cleric 2/monk 5/sacred fist 6, and when you finish sacred fist (and have a monk's belt) you will deal damage as a level 20 monk. Taking two fewer will get rid of two not terribly great abilities for more spell casting. And yeah, it's worse than fiery ki fist. The only reason I'd ever take it is if it was a prereq. That goes for both. Anyway, about owl's insight. I think it should be a 6th level spell for druids as well, but I also think that clerics should get it. It's all about gaining intuition, which is definately a cleric thing, especially for a half-celestial divine oracle with intuitive attack. The only reason my DM did not let me have it even at a higher level (6), was because he thought I was good enough already. He thought that the flavor was perfect, and there was no in game reason to dissallow it. We were gestalt (I was monk/cleric) and my AC and will saves were higher than everyone elses. My touch AC was higher than most other's regular ACs. That's why he didn't allow it. But you shouldn't require a feat to "research" a new spell. (by research, I mean pray to your cause). If he still requires that feat, then just don't take it, and wait until you can cast miracle. And then if you get to a high enough level to start taking heirophant, take miracle as a spell like ability.
imakuni67 08-21-07, 11:58 AM	You can use a charged touch attack and an unarmed strike at the same time. You attack with the charged fist instead of the touch attack and do unarmed damage as well as the charge. If you get a crit. then it doubles the spell damage as well. :D
Cryos, Icy Manipulator 08-22-07, 09:30 PM	Also, you may want to do one more level of monk, or two fewer (and put both of those levels into cleric). If you do one more, you will have cleric 2/monk 5/sacred fist 6, and when you finish sacred fist (and have a monk's belt) you will deal damage as a level 20 monk. Maybe my math is incorrect or I missed something, but how do you get 20th level damage from this build (with a Monk's Belt). If OP reached 20th level(16th with the LA), he would only be cleric 2/monk 5/sacred fist 9 (with the +5 for the monk's belt) and end up with a 19th level unarmed attack. He would still be able to reach 19th level unarmed damage by taking the 10th level of sacred fist. So adding another level of Monk only really nets you +1 to your Flurry of Blows, Purity of Body, and a +1 AC bonus (which doesnt stack with Sacred Fist). However, if he were to take the 10th level in Sacred Fist, he would get +1 BAB (which would negate the reduction to the flurry penalty as a 5th level Monk but is still better since you add the +1 to touch attacks, grapple checks, disarm, ect), +1 save to Fort and Ref, +1 to AC (from the Sacred Fist class), +1 ECL, and Inner Armor. In addition, you can actually have a higher unarmed attack if you took Imp Unarmed Attack. This would raise your damage dice to 3d8. This actually made me want to create a Sacred Fist character. :behold:
dman11235 08-22-07, 10:08 PM	I was saying when he finnished (if he finished) he would deal damage as a level 20 monk. As I said earlier, I like to plan ahead. Sure, that way is better if he stops at level 20, but my way is slightly better if he gets to higher than that. He'd still get that level of sacred fist.
Cryos, Icy Manipulator 08-22-07, 10:41 PM	I was saying when he finnished (if he finished) he would deal damage as a level 20 monk. As I said earlier, I like to plan ahead. Sure, that way is better if he stops at level 20, but my way is slightly better if he gets to higher than that. He'd still get that level of sacred fist. Ah, you didnt stop at 20. Also, just a side note. I was wondering a) if there were rules regarding enchanting monk fists and if so, where can they be found b) if there were no rules regarding enchanting monk fists, how would people here (as DM's) rule to be able to enchant fists as magical weapon? :behold:
dman11235 08-22-07, 10:55 PM	I let it happen, but most don't. There is an item that lets you do it somewhere. Costs like 2000. According to the FAQ you can't. There is also the Scorpion Kama from the MiC which does unarmed damage, and you can TWF fight with it. And also, obviously, enchant it. I don't find it that unbalancing to let it happen.
tday123 08-22-07, 11:00 PM	for gear...drop belt o' giants...go monk's belt (+4 lvls to monk unarmed plus xtra stunning fist) also ask yer dm about the savage species: ammy of natural attacks (allows you to enchant yer hands as if they were weapons; ie. +1 surestriking metaline holy, etc.)
dman11235 08-22-07, 11:48 PM	5 levels to unarmed strike and AC damage. Monk's belt. And thank you for the source on that item.
imakuni67 08-23-07, 01:00 PM	Also, just a side note. I was wondering a) if there were rules regarding enchanting monk fists and if so, where can they be found b) if there were no rules regarding enchanting monk fists, how would people here (as DM's) rule to be able to enchant fists as magical weapon? You have to use magic fang spell and permanency
dman11235 08-23-07, 02:16 PM	Or greater magic weapon, or have your freindly cleric/wizard/druid cast it every morning, or amulet of mighty fists (not recommended unless you have three or more natural attacks), or amulet of natural attacks.
Jubmania 08-26-07, 04:03 AM	Dman, I can't find that table in the back that you speak of. If I toss one Ring of Protection +4 and my Bracer of Armor +8, but put those Rings of Force Armor on then I'd be losing AC. I'm not seeing much of a benefit of losing the AC. Spell Resist is separate from Power Resist in this campaign. He said that if I cast Miracle, then I could get that spell but he wasn't sure about Pray. I'll have to talk to him more; unfortunately, he's been a bit distracted with making a new PC for a campaign he's a player in. Tday, What's this Amulet of Natural Attacks? Also, what book is it in? I might not want to bother with it since my current amulet gives me +6 Wisdom, which I need.
dman11235 08-26-07, 12:23 PM	You can change your amulet of wisdom to lenses of wisdom, since they have the same body slot affinity for wisdom, there is no added cost. Also, you could put the wisdom bonus on the amulet of natural attacks since it is a common effect (MiC for rules, DMG for more and body slot affinities). The amulet of natural attacks is from Savage Species. Also, the deflection bonus from a ring of protection is a common effect, and as such can be put on any item that has that body slot affinity. So you could get rings of force armor of deflection for a +8 armor just like bracers, and +4 deflection. With the added bonus of some extra damage and a ghost touch body. So you would keep the AC and get some more things, all for 5,000 gp more, and you get back the bracer slot, because you can put both effects on 2 rings. BTW, the bracers of armor armor bonus is a common effect. So what is he saying about miracle? According to the discription of miracle, you can use it to cast any other cleric spell of 8th level or lower, or any other spell of 7th level or lower without an XP cost. You don't really even need to ask his permission to do that. The praying thing was to research your own spell, but since you are a cleric, it's not research, it's praying to your deity or cause. The bonus here is that you can cast it at effective cleric level 11 instead of 17. It's really too bad he's not using transparency. This makes SR fairly useless.
Jubmania 08-30-07, 09:27 PM	Dman, My DM says that it sounds like you're creating your own items. He said that unless it has actually been created in one of the books, then it's not allowed. He also said that Savage Species is 3.0 and since we're playing 3.5, it's not one that can be used. As far as the Praying stuff goes, he hasn't said much more. Is Pray a spell or what? And he said I could get that spell with Miracle...that's what I said last post too. =P And yeah...I got jipped by the Power Resist bull. =/
dman11235 08-30-07, 10:02 PM	The praying is getting a new spell on your spell list, following the rules on creating spells in the DMG (198). Since you would be divine and not arcane, you don't "research" you pray. It's the same thing, just a different word representing how you go about doing it. I am making new items. By new, I am using the table on page 234 of the Magic Item Compendium, which is an update for the one on pages 285 and 288 (table 7-33 and behind the curtain: body slot affinities) of the DMG, to manipulate items into more reasonable item slots, like lense for wisdom. These tables let you change around and improve items based on where they fit on your body and what the bonus they already grant is, and what spell you need to create the item. These are all common effects, and as such can be freely added. Do you have the MiC? If so, read the item creation rules. They should prove useful. If not, then you probably have no idea what I have been going on about. You could still use the DMG, but those rules aren't very good compaired to the MiC. Oh, and too bad about the amulet. You'll be stuck with merely magical fists (greater magic weapon=awesome)