Arena Player App [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTimePost
Zan

09-29-04, 04:11 AM
It's been a long time since I spent hours reading the core arena fights, but here you are, fighting as always. :)

I've been thinking about programming a simple arena fight manager/viewer. I'm still not sure about what features would be useful, but basicly I was thinking about letting whoever is going to play a fight have a tool to:

- load the map and gladiator's data.
- move gladiators around the map.
- insert comments of what is done every round.
- automatic counters for spell duration, hp, etc...

The app would generate a text readable report (as similar as possible to what you're using already) that copied into the app would let anyone replay it round by round, seeing the movement of gladiators in the map and reading the comments.
(If anyone is familiar with Go or Chess game viewers, my first idea would be something similar to them.)

Do you think it would be interesting? Would you use it? What would you like it to do?



Edit: Of course, dice rollers. Also, if you consider it interesting:
- online watching.
- saved encripted dice results.
- league manager.
etc...
KerlanRayne

09-29-04, 04:23 AM
You might want to look at Cellardweller's thread about The Pitlordinator 5000.

KerlanRayne
Zan

09-29-04, 04:32 AM
You might want to look at Cellardweller's thread about The Pitlordinator 5000.
Yes, same idea. :)

Well, I'll think now about making a quick app even if only to give ideas or waiting to see what CD ends up doing and offering help to support/add features.
cellardweller

09-29-04, 04:47 AM
The first beta will of PL5000 probably be available in 4-5 weeks - Once the infrastructure is in place, you are more than welcome to contribute to the features of that if you like. It is java.

If really want to do something, the roster keeping process is still very manual. Jindl declined my earlier offer to write one when he was doing the pairngs, but perhaps the other GM's/Shadow have other ideas.
Zan

09-29-04, 05:02 AM
The first beta will of PL5000 probably be available in 4-5 weeks - Once the infrastructure is in place, you are more than welcome to contribute to the features of that if you like. It is java.
Ok, maybe there's some add I can help with when it's done. :)
Zan

09-29-04, 07:35 AM
As a side note, having read some "Fight of the week" threads, maybe online (real time) playing, should be seriously considered.
It would change the style of the arena so much that I didn't dare to propose that as a main advantage of the use of an application to run the fights.

Do you think it would be a viable option?


Edit: It would be awfully complicated unless someone finds out a great way of actually involving the players in the fight. However, maybe avoiding the post-fight discussions would make it worth.
Caterane

09-29-04, 09:38 AM
@Zan: Wow. That sounds great!! Thanks a lot for considering this.

But the best thing of all would be if you make a character and join the CoCo :)

I wrote a Quickstart Guide (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2700324) some weeks ago which helps newcomers to get started. Write me a PM and I will guide you through the initial steps (and beyond of course).

Cat
Jindl

09-29-04, 12:27 PM
@Zan + cellardwellar -

I really like the proposal you guys are making. But it sounds like a great deal of work. Perhaps we should start with small pieces and then join it together later.

One small piece that would be immediately and greatly useful would be a range calculator. One of the most time consuming parts of fights is determining the distance between combatants. Distance affects spot/listen, range penalties on weapons, range limitations on spells, potential to charge, etc. If we had a simple program where you could enter in two sets of coordinates from our arena map, and then it would tell the distance, that would be great. The coordinates would need to be in x,y,z format to account for altitude, with x: ranging from -32 to +32, y: ranging from -32 to +32, and z: ranging from -2 to +32; as these are the maximum distances in the arena for incorporeals, burrowers, etc. When running the fight, the pitlord could enter in the coordinates of the nearest square of one creature's space, and the coorinates of the target square, and the program would give the distance! That would really cut down on the amount of work required.

No database is necessary for this function. I don't think it would be necessary to link to the individual calculations in the fight. But it would be immensely useful while running the fight.

Do you guys think you could start us out by doing something like this?

-Jindl
Zan

09-30-04, 05:22 AM
@Zan + cellardwellar -
I really like the proposal you guys are making. But it sounds like a great deal of work. Perhaps we should start with small pieces and then join it together later.

One small piece that would be immediately and greatly useful would be a range calculator. One of the most time consuming parts of fights is determining the distance between combatants. Distance affects spot/listen, range penalties on weapons, range limitations on spells, potential to charge, etc. If we had a simple program where you could enter in two sets of coordinates from our arena map, and then it would tell the distance, that would be great. The coordinates would need to be in x,y,z format to account for altitude, with x: ranging from -32 to +32, y: ranging from -32 to +32, and z: ranging from -2 to +32; as these are the maximum distances in the arena for incorporeals, burrowers, etc. When running the fight, the pitlord could enter in the coordinates of the nearest square of one creature's space, and the coorinates of the target square, and the program would give the distance! That would really cut down on the amount of work required.

If you don't mind having this in c# I can have it in a moment.

Just to be sure I'd do it all right: (x, y, z)

- from (0, 0, 0) to (0, 2, 0) there's 10 ft.
- from (0, 0, 0) to (2, 2, 0) there's 15 ft.
- from (0, 0, 0) to (0, 2, 2) there's 15 ft.
- from (0, 0, 0) to (2, 2, 2) there's 20 ft.

correct?
Zan

09-30-04, 06:00 AM
ok, done. However I think it maybe doesn't work as it should, as I'm not really sure how 3D distances are calculated. :)

if (0,0,0) to (10,20,30) is 30ft I just need an email to send it.

Edit: as it is (obviously :)) 40ft, not 30ft, my understanding of the rules was flawed.
cellardweller

09-30-04, 06:26 AM
(0,0,0) to (10,20,30) is 40 ft. The following will do it

<removed code>

If you feel like converting it to javascript I can host the page.
Zan

09-30-04, 06:33 AM
..
Which I suppose means "Oh god, please make it stop before I tear my own eyes." or something similar, that I should receive as a discrete signal to never speak again unless asked to.
Zan

09-30-04, 06:37 AM
(0,0,0) to (10,20,30) is 40 ft.
Really? Humm. Ohhh, I see my mistake.
cellardweller

09-30-04, 06:37 AM
Nah, I just accidently submitted while typing my response. .. was just to hold the place till I finished.
Zan

09-30-04, 06:45 AM
Really? Humm. Ohhh, I see my mistake.
No, I actually, don't:

from (0,0,0) to (10,10,0) D is 15.
from (10,10,0) to (10, 20, 10) D is 30.
from (10, 20, 10) to (10, 20, 30) D is 50?

where's the mistake?
cellardweller

09-30-04, 06:55 AM
Movement

from (0,0,0) to (10,10,0) D is 15.
from (10,10,0) to (10, 20, 10) D is 15.
from (10, 20, 10) to (10, 20, 30) D is 20.

Every straight line squeare is 5
Every second diagonal is 5'

Because a diagonal accross 3 dimensions is still counts as single diagonal, the dimension with the lowest delta gets ingnored (because they are all combined with the secon lowest delta).

Hence distance is the highest delta + 1/2 the second lowest delta.
Zan

09-30-04, 06:56 AM
No, I actually, don't:

from (0,0,0) to (10,10,0) D is 15.
from (10,10,0) to (10, 20, 10) D is 30.
from (10, 20, 10) to (10, 20, 30) D is 50?

where's the mistake?
It would be 40 if it was allowed to move diagonally in x,y and z simultaneously.

so
from (0,0,0) to (10,10,10) D is 15.
from (10,10,10) to (10, 20, 20) D is 30.
from (10, 20, 20) to (10, 20, 30) D is 40?

I guess that must be right. Which means (among other things) that I've been playing wrongly every single flyer in the game for almost a year. :(
Zan

09-30-04, 06:58 AM
Movement
Because a diagonal accross 3 dimensions still counts as single diagonal,
Yes, that was the piece of info I lacked. Well, another lesson for today. :)
cellardweller

09-30-04, 07:02 AM
It would be 40 if it was allowed to move diagonally in x,y and z simultaneously.

so
from (0,0,0) to (10,10,10) D is 15.

yes

from (10,10,10) to (10, 20, 20) D is 30.

No, dx=0, dy=10 dz=10, distance = 10+5=15

from (10, 20, 20) to (10, 20, 30) D is 40?

No, dx=0, dy=0 dz=10, distance = 10


If you are talking about flight then it differs slightly because for some flight classes, vertical movement counts for 1/2 or double. It is not as simple as just combining eliminating one vector in this case.
Zan

09-30-04, 07:11 AM
So in C# it would be:

int[] D = {Math.Abs(x2-x1),Math.Abs(y2-y1),Math.Abs(z2-z1)};
Array.Sort(D);
int result = D[2]+(D[1]/2);
cellardweller

09-30-04, 07:12 AM
yup
Zan

09-30-04, 07:15 AM
yes
No, dx=0, dy=10 dz=10, distance = 10+5=15
No, dx=0, dy=0 dz=10, distance = 10

I meant accumulated distance.

Anyway, I understood it. It's a lot easier than what I thought.

I just didn't apply to vertical movement the logic of second diagonals counting 10 that simplified ground diagonal movement. :)

You should have seen the spherical areas of fireballs in my games. It stopped the game for 15 minutes. :D
Zan

09-30-04, 07:23 AM
Wouldn't you have at hand an image of the arena map. A simple b/w jpg would suffice.

It's for a quick distance and movement calculator.
cellardweller

09-30-04, 07:38 AM
There was one on the maps thread, but it has gone walkabout since Hatzinger left. Someone else may have a copy lying around.
Pittbull

09-30-04, 08:04 AM
There was one on the maps thread, but it has gone walkabout since Hatzinger left. Someone else may have a copy lying around.

I'm no sure, but I think, whether Cat or Druid has one, if they don't, I'll be surely able to provide one from Hatze!
Zan

09-30-04, 08:14 AM
Ok, I just made a graphical interface that allows to:

- load a map.
- set the grid size.
- put images in it, autoaligned to the map grid.
- move the images around the map.
- set the altitude of the images.

It constantly tells the position in the map (in 5ft distances) and the distance, between two of them.

Just training while PL5000 is on his way. :)



Edit: Can you see I'm bored at work today, and anything I do in c# passes as working? :D
Zan

09-30-04, 08:17 AM
I'm no sure, but I think, whether Cat or Druid has one, if they don't, I'll be surely able to provide one from Hatze!
Mail PMed in case you find it. :)
Zan

09-30-04, 09:26 AM
Ok, I just made a graphical interface that allows to:

- load a map.
- set the grid size.
- put images in it, autoaligned to the map grid.
- move the images around the map.
- set the altitude of the images.

It constantly tells the position in the map (in 5ft distances) and the distance, between two of them.

Added features:
- Marks max ranges for move and double move.
- Blank 300x300ft map to draw an arena into (till I find an official arena map image :)).
Jindl

09-30-04, 09:35 AM
Keep up the good work guys!!

This sounds like a great utility program already.

One thing I do want to mention: The dimensions of the interior of the arena is a 150 ft radius cylinder that is 150 ft high. However, the rules allow for burrowers/incorporeals/etc to be able to move within the walls/ceiling/ground for another 10 feet in every direction. So we really need the map to allow for a 160 ft radius cylinder that goes from -10 ft to 160 ft on the z-axis.

Thanks for all the works so far, this looks like a GREAT pitlording tool!!

-Jindl
Zan

09-30-04, 09:44 AM
However, the rules allow for burrowers/incorporeals/etc to be able to move within the walls/ceiling/ground for another 10 feet in every direction. So we really need the map to allow for a 160 ft radius cylinder that goes from -10 ft to 160 ft on the z-axis.

Thanks for all the works so far, this looks like a GREAT pitlording tool!!

damn burrowers... ok. :)

What I'm doing is just a little app to make easy moving around the characters. Bored at work and spending time while I wait for Cellardweller's PL5000.

If anyone wants to try the temporary tiny app just pm me an email.
Zan

10-01-04, 04:17 AM
Up to date features:

- put images in an arena map, autoaligned to the map grid.
- move the images around the map.
- set the altitude of the images.
- It constantly tells the position in the map (in 5ft distances) and the distance, between two of them.

- Customize ranges to be marked in the map for each character. (move, double move, longbow, etc...)
- Blank 300x300ft map to draw an arena into (till I find an official arena map image ).
Or load a custom map (setting appropiate grid size, center of coords, etc...).

- Dice roller. Saves every roll with a description.
- Set counters for each character/item. (hp, spell duration, etc...)
- Write commentary for the round.
- Save round (Commentary, rolls, character positions, counters...).

Still buggy and simple, but if anyone wants to see it and propose changes, mail or pm me.
Pittbull

10-01-04, 07:12 AM
@Zan: I sent you the data, I received from Hatze!
Zan

10-01-04, 07:55 AM
@Zan: I sent you the data, I received from Hatze!
Thanks. Still waiting for it to reach me though.


Side note:
After reading some more fight reports and post-fight discussions, I'm thinking about adding a feature to load a fight at any point and continue it.

At first I was thinking about programming separately the pitlord app and the viewer (less controls, all relevant info displayed instead of them, etc...) However, allowing to review the games with the management app would allow changes in a played game.

Is it interesting? Or just having a "situation in round 11" loadable is enough. (The advantage of second method would be writing in the forum a tiny text that the app could load to start from there.)
Zan

10-01-04, 08:23 AM
- added support for larger creatures.
Zan

10-01-04, 10:13 AM
Adding support for on-line playing.

I suppose this will be mostly useless for CoCo, but I'm planning on using the app to play combats in my D&D internet games so I'll need it. :)