Post/Author/DateTime	Post
One_Winged_Angel 01-26-05, 06:04 PM	Hi all. Kaigan and I got to talking and we both wanted to open guilds. I'm more of a practical person, and I wanted to know a few things. So, I've been having chats with Cat and Ash via PM. We've come to the conclusion that organizations were a failure last time. The reason why is debateable, but between our GMs and myself, we've come to a few conclusions that make sense: 1) Poitless: Thats right. Pointless. Why join a guild? Roleplay? People were better off just going to the Real Adventures section and making a character to roleplay. 2) No incentive: Kinda similar to point 1, but more specific. There was little reason for an assassin to join an assassin's guild. Again, what's the point? There is nothing much to gain from the whole thing. So what do we do? 3) Didn't fit: Guilds just didn't make much sense in the old COCO. It was a sheer combat arena. On a whole, the boards were leaned so much to rules, debates, and commetns on how things were done that most organization threads were pushed straight to the bottom. So, this thread to open discussion on organizations. What can we do to improve them? Can we make them work? Can it be balanced? If, at the end of this, we decide they just won't work, at least my mind will be at rest. Normal rules apply here. No insults, not taking shots at others, and keep an open mind. So we begin...
One_Winged_Angel 01-26-05, 06:07 PM	For ideas.
Snommelp 01-26-05, 06:12 PM	Once the option opens for team fights, I think that evil guilds at least will not have a problem attracting members. If every member of the assassin's guild teams up against a mercenary assassin, that sets an example saying that you'd better join the guild, or else. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing, though. Free agents are important to Gladius.
Kaigan 01-26-05, 06:48 PM	I agree with Snommelp in that guilds will be much more useful with multiple character fights. This could even introduce guild rivalry, guild wars, etc. Also guilds can also play a huge roll in quests, once multi character quests become available. And of course, roleplay plays a big part. I agree with Batt... sorry, OWA, in that they did seem kind of pointless and time consuming in the original CoCo, but I think here, in LG, they will account for more than just roleplay. And on the roleplay note, it gives pitlords something to add in their fights. And on that note, I must then proceed to flatter Caterane, and his magnificant stories that have been amiss for some time now. Cat is no doubt a master story teller. But yeah, as to guilds, at the moment, the only things that I can see for guilds are: 1) Roleplay 2) Multi character fights 3) Multi character quests Just my 2c
Caterane 01-27-05, 08:42 AM	Heh, thanks Kaigan. I'd love to write new stories but LG occupies me 100% atm. Perhaps this will change in the future though Ash thinks it will just get worse the more add-ons we have :( I want to make a suggestion too. We will sooner or later enable Challenges again, though they will work slightly differently. The problem with challenges was that you just picked the (from your point of view) weakest opponoment in your league and challenge him, oftentimes not even posting a reason. This will be different in Living Gladius. Asides from challenges costing 1 credit (after all, the leeway to pick an easy opponoment increases your chances of a victory) a roleplaying reason must be there. I know, you probably think coming up with a reason is easy but in fact it won't be as simple as you might think. The reason must be a good one, not just "Hey I'm a druid and psionics is against nature so I challenge Mr.Psion" (@Jindl: ;)) or the assassin who just kills everyone. Not sufficient as a reason to issue a challenge. And this is where guilds can play a role. Depending on the roleplayling aspect of a guild, you will be provided with an appropriate roleplaying reason by your guild. This is still no carte-blanche to challenge everyone as you see fit but it makes the roleplaying requirement easier. The more we increase the difficulty of roleplaying reasons, the more attractive a guild gets and since this has no impact on statistics and modifiers, it is easy to implement. For those of you who don't like to join a guild, don't worry, it will still be possible to challenge anyone but this must be build up in the roleplay thread, perhaps over several weeks. It's just a bit more work.
One_Winged_Angel 01-27-05, 09:51 AM	Well, there are a few good suggestions. I was working on the Blademasters and I realized something. Guilds, if they are expected to grow, must reward their players for doing well. Rank came to mind. Starting out as a ________ and working your way up to _________. And idea I had for the Blademasters, discussed with Cat already, was to have multiple people in charge. Rather than just the one "guildmaster," who is, in all likelihood, simply a character of the founder, you have a council. They vote to call shots. You know, congressional powers like declaring war, levying taxes, distributing funds. Course, for all you in U.S. history, the guildmaster can still veto. :D Looking at the above, yet another idea comes to me: Running this by our GMs for the most part. We are limiting the guilds to RP bonuses still. What if there was a material cost for a material benifit? Call it a fee for joining or dues to the guild. In return they can get _______. Don't know what. Just thought of that one now. The guild can use it's money to buy, erm, something... Yah, I need to work out the bugs. Open to suggestions! Everyone with new ideas, come forth!
Snommelp 01-27-05, 04:18 PM	For material benefits (if they are allowed), the benefit should match the guild. For example, members of the Healer's Guild might, in exchange for monthly or annual dues, gain access to discount healing potions. Members of the Blademasters might get discount prices on melee weapons, if a good smith joins the guild. Of course, this all depends on whether or not the GMs allow material benefits for guilds.
MysticMonk2005 01-27-05, 04:21 PM	I remember from reading the LG discusion thread about the eventual living quarters thing. Well I suggest that unless you want your guild to have all thier meetings in the town square, they will have rent a building. And that is where dues can come in. Eventualy a guild can save up and buy its own building at which time it can begin funishing it with its money. Then there are the political aspects of having cash. Such as buying off nosey officals, paying some one to pass legislation in your favor, ext.
Dalton Onestone 01-27-05, 07:56 PM	Are we talking about "guilds" here, or "orders"? Guilds were essentially economic associations, that enforced local monopolies. If you weren't in the X Guild, you couldn't be an active X. Orders of knighthood, however, generally had privileges and responsibilities, but didn't try to prohibit all non-members from being active knights.
One_Winged_Angel 01-27-05, 11:09 PM	Are we talking about "guilds" here, or "orders"? Guilds were essentially economic associations, that enforced local monopolies. If you weren't in the X Guild, you couldn't be an active X. Orders of knighthood, however, generally had privileges and responsibilities, but didn't try to prohibit all non-members from being active knights. "Guilds" in the COCO is a general name for an organization. The Celestical Order is an example. We use the name "guild" loosely. We normally formally refer to them as "organizations."
Dalton Onestone 01-28-05, 03:45 AM	"Guilds" in the COCO is a general name for an organization. The Celestical Order is an example. We use the name "guild" loosely. We normally formally refer to them as "organizations." Thanks. That's good. If it is decided that there may be combat advantages from joining an organization -- e.g., discounts for buying certain kinds of stuff -- then it pretty much becomes the case that every gladiator needs access to an organization with similar discounts, and should join one. My hunch is that this could cause more trouble than it's worth.
One_Winged_Angel 02-03-05, 11:39 PM	Just thought I'd bring this up again. I'd like to hear from some other elders besides Cat. Anyone? Anyone at all?
OdinTheReaper 02-04-05, 01:01 AM	I think it would be nice to do some campaigning with the guilds. During the campaign you could discover a possible enemy of the guild....and then...have a huge guild war or start doing challenges. Well i would like for more to start up and then get some more insight from gm's/elders and such. Just some thoughts.
LLMadCow 02-08-05, 07:13 AM	I have been thinking about the guild situation in LG and here are some thoughts I have and few responses to those thoughts... What does it benefit the PC to be in a guild? What does it benefit the guild to have the PC? These are two very essential questions that should be looked at and I have a variety of ideas for both. What does it benefit the PC to be in a guild? Guild members can offer cratfed items at cost to other members within the guild. This may seem like a big issue, but characters in LG are likely devoting more of their expendable resources towards leveling since we have a greater number of fights before leveling. The sharing of spellbooks could be included here, for all of those wizards out there, but the price should follow the book. This is not a way to have money exchanging hands, but it would work like this: The Guild has a listing of what Craft Skills their members have, or what spells their members have. The guild functions just like a store except for two differences: Cost is as per self crafting (+5gp per XP for magical items) and you have to wait for purchases to be crafted. 'The Guild' does the crafing and such, but if an item takes 8 days to be crafted, then the character must pay up front and wait 8 days for the item. Now, in LG, this means that if they pay for an item on Tuesday, it will be available for their fights the following week, 8 days later. If it is going to cost credits for XXXX, then let the guilds earn credits and help pay for XXXX. This would be a lot of fun and help cut down on the millions of things that will end up costing credits. The Fighters Guild could incur part of the cost of sending a group of their members on a quest. The Mage Guild could incur part of the cost of researching new magic or magical items. The Celestial Forces could incur some of the cost of challenging the Forces of Darkness! Guilds could have a credit system that works out like this: Any fight won by a member of the guild earns 1/2 or 1/3 credit. From there, the individual guilds just have a credit total. The head of the guild, whether it be council, rotating members, or an individual decides how to spend earned credits. If the guild members are opposed to how credits are being spent, they can always leave and start their own. Title and Prestige Give the gladiators titles and ranks. Each guild has their own heirarchy and assigns rank and title accordingly. What does it benefit the guild to have the PC? Guilds have their own prestige and power within a city, so let them express themselves. It would not be so complicated for Guilds to earn money from their members and have a value on their own. Some guilds might have fees. Some guilds might have public works projects. A large portion of this would be role play. I have not fleshed out all of my ideas, but I am sure that there are a lot of things that could be done from the guilds point of view. That about sums up my thoughts for now. More to follow later. LL
One_Winged_Angel 02-08-05, 09:14 PM	LL, I do love it when you come up with cool ideas. A lot of what you say is good. I think that I need to have some talks with Cat and Ash to try to get everything going. I had another thought on guilds. We need NPCs right now to act in Gladius. I think also that if LLs idea of help with other's come's into practice, NPCs could play a larger part. I think that in the scheme of things, we can find a place for guilds in LG. Quests can be done effectively. I love the idea of titles. More ideas?