Community Poll: A new Guild [Archive] - Wizards Community

Community Poll: A new Guild [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Caterane
10-20-06, 07:57 AM This is a community poll to find a replacement for The Watchful Eye (EYE) guild. Many proposals have been made in the New Guild: Proposal Submissions.

Only those who have a character on the roster may participate! Votes from players without a character will be ignored.

You have up to three voices which can be spread among the options. Please vote for the guild you would be interested to join! It does us no good if we have a cool guild but no one gets characters in!

The poll ends on the 30th of October.

Please note that I will discuss the result with Guildlords to find the replacement so it might happen that the winner of this poll might not be the replacement in the end but it will have a strong impact on our decision.

Finally, we'd need a Guildmaster for the guild. If you're interested, submit it here! It earns you 1 Credit per week!
McJarvis
10-20-06, 02:50 PM Ohhhhyeah, I'm interested in being a guildmaster.

I didn't even know it earned me credits :)
Zevox
10-20-06, 02:54 PM Voted for Loyalists and Free Autonomy Council.

The former simply because it sounds like a lot of fun (and I have an easy pre-existing story for a character concept that would fit it), the latter because its one Destra would fit in better than WAR :D .

Zevox
MindWandererB
10-20-06, 02:59 PM I basically had one criteria for my votes: whether my one as-yet unaffiliated character would join. Actually, she's join TFL was well as TAC (I really don't think there's a significant difference between them--I hate to split votes between those two).

Of course, if McJarvis is the only one who wants to be guildmaster, that could limit our options somewhat....
McJarvis
10-20-06, 03:08 PM I basically had one criteria for my votes: whether my one as-yet unaffiliated character would join. Actually, she's join TFL was well as TAC (I really don't think there's a significant difference between them--I hate to split votes between those two).

Of course, if McJarvis is the only one who wants to be guildmaster, that could limit our options somewhat....

I'm pretty flexible on what I guild master for. Most of my characters have been designed to fit into multiple guilds in gladius, depending on what I wanted later. I'm more interested in heading a guild more people will enjoy than one that I personally would prefere..(I don't mind the idea of the monarchists- I just think Gladius needs a chaos guild more)

Take Mort for instance:

Arcane Spell Caster, Manifester, Hider/sniper, Animal-companion owning, neutral watcher type.
MindWandererB
10-20-06, 03:10 PM I'm pretty flexible on what I guild master for. Most of my characters have been designed to fit into multiple guilds in gladius, depending on what I wanted later. I'm more interested in heading a guild more people will enjoy than one that I personally would prefere..(I don't mind the idea of the monarchists- I just think Gladius needs a chaos guild more)

Take Mort for instance:

Arcane Spell Caster, Manifester, Hider/sniper, Animal-companion owning, neutral watcher type.
So does that mean you'd be willing to join and guildmaster for any guild that "won," even if you didn't vote for it? That'd be good to know.
McJarvis
10-20-06, 03:12 PM So does that mean you'd be willing to join and guildmaster for any guild that "won," even if you didn't vote for it? That'd be good to know.

In addition to what I voted for(TFL, TAC, FAC), I wouldn't mind the Monarchists or the People's party. The others would be a stretch for me to run.

edit- oh, and I'd be willing to run SOC too. Forgot about that one :)
MindWandererB
10-20-06, 03:23 PM In addition to what I voted for(TFL, TAC, FAC), I wouldn't mind the Monarchists or the People's party. The others would be a stretch for me to run.

edit- oh, and I'd be willing to run SOC too. Forgot about that one :)
So basically, anything but TIS or ODS. Got it.
McJarvis
10-26-06, 12:48 AM When would the new guild start? Week after Oct 30?
MindWandererB
10-26-06, 01:11 AM I think it will need more start-up time than that--that leaves only 2 days before the next Wednesday. I hope to have it in full swing by Nov. 8.
TARDIS
10-26-06, 01:11 AM This is hard....

I LOVE the Loyalists.... they scream "character concepts!" to me.

Realisticaly, I think the Freedom League and the Anarchist's council are the same thing. Heck, the Autonomy Council is really the same thing too... perhaps a CN guild based on individual freedoms, with a slight tendency toward evil?

The Talasian Illumination Society is extremely intriguing as well... I can definately see the fun there, but beware stepping on the EHTC's toes with the "subtle evil" line.

Any of the three would work, but of them I know my current character would join the freedom variant, and a future character would join the Loyalists. Subtle manipulation style evil isn't my thing in that I'm not very good at it, but I certainly enjoy it-- anyone in the market for a lackey?
tunagolem
10-29-06, 03:12 PM Only those who have a character on the roster may participate!
I voted, but I don't know if I count as a player.
I had a PC in the past, and I'm fighting for one now.
MindWandererB
10-29-06, 07:21 PM Your vote counts if you have a character who you intend to have join. Basically, ATM, I expect FAC to have 13 characters on the roster within a few weeks of when it opens (assuming that's the one we go with).
NiQil
10-29-06, 07:40 PM Your vote counts if you have a character who you intend to have join. Basically, ATM, I expect FAC to have 13 characters on the roster within a few weeks of when it opens (assuming that's the one we go with).
I would call that highly optimistic on your part. I would bet the number is closer to half that. Keep in mind that everyone was allowed to vote for three selections, so just because someone voted for a selection, doesn't mean that's one that they will join...it could just be that they think the idea is a good one. I, for one, cast my votes with no intention of joining any of the guilds. I think the guild system as is stands now is going nowhere fast, and have no desire to be involved with it at the moment.
MindWandererB
10-29-06, 08:15 PM I would call that highly optimistic on your part. I would bet the number is closer to half that. Keep in mind that everyone was allowed to vote for three selections, so just because someone voted for a selection, doesn't mean that's one that they will join...it could just be that they think the idea is a good one. I, for one, cast my votes with no intention of joining any of the guilds. I think the guild system as is stands now is going nowhere fast, and have no desire to be involved with it at the moment.
Except the instructions say this:

"Please vote for the guild you would be interested to join! It does us no good if we have a cool guild but no one gets characters in!"

I'd like to think that expecting people to actually follow the instructions isn't overly optimistic.

So if you voted for a guild, but you don't intend to join it, then your vote was cast in error. Since you have admitted this, NiQil, your votes will be disregarded. If anyone else placed votes for similar reasons, let me know now! If FAC wins the vote, but a different guild would have attracted more members, then this whole thing is pointless and we'll need to do this a different way.
NiQil
10-29-06, 08:44 PM To my knowledge, those instructions were not in the post when I voted, though I could be mistaken. Either way, I think you will find that your numbers are optimistic. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Caterane
10-30-06, 06:03 AM This poll was more to see which guild would be attractive, not to reach a final decision. FAC (12) and LOY (10) are the top candidates. We now have to see which guild will be added as replacement for EYE.
Gonbow
10-30-06, 10:21 AM I'm kind of surprised the Draconic Order didn't get more votes. The idea wasn't extremely fleshed out in the initial post, but it was interesting. Oh well, heres hoping the Loyalists win; Tatyana just took 5 ranks in knowledge royalty for a reason, dang it! ^_^
McJarvis
10-30-06, 10:32 AM I'm kind of surprised the Draconic Order didn't get more votes. The idea wasn't extremely fleshed out in the initial post, but it was interesting. Oh well, heres hoping the Loyalists win; Tatyana just took 5 ranks in knowledge royalty for a reason, dang it! ^_^

The only reason I didn't support it is that I have no current characters that are draconic, and no real plans for characters that are.
Zevox
10-30-06, 10:58 AM I'm kind of surprised the Draconic Order didn't get more votes. The idea wasn't extremely fleshed out in the initial post, but it was interesting. Oh well, heres hoping the Loyalists win; Tatyana just took 5 ranks in knowledge royalty for a reason, dang it! ^_^
I think McJarvis has the main reason it didn't get more votes down there - just how many Dragon-theme characters would you get into such a Guild? We have all of two True Dragons on the roster right now (both frozen), and two more and a Pseudodragon retired (all of which were associated with other Guilds). Beyond that you've got Kobolds, Half-Dragons, and Dragon Disciples before you start getting into thinner excuses for membership, and none of those are precisely populous either.

And I'm kinda hoping the Loyalists win too - my next character (Mithos) fits there a lot better than the alternative :) .

Zevox
hogarth
10-30-06, 11:04 AM And I'm kinda hoping the Loyalists win too - my next character (Mithos) fits there a lot better than the alternative :) .
I'm hoping that the prospective Guildmaster's favorite idea wins, whichever that may be. What's the point of creating a new guild if the guildmaster isn't enthusiastic about running it? Especially since there's already an existing guild that no one seems particulaly anxious to lead?
McJarvis
10-30-06, 11:06 AM I'm hoping that the prospective Guildmaster's favorite idea wins, whichever that may be. What's the point of creating a new guild if the guildmaster isn't enthusiastic about running it?

As stated, while my favor goes towards the FAC, I have a few ideas for where I can take Mort/Poe's characters if the Monarchists win. Though that doesn't change the fact- I really want FAC to win :-) The idea of Mort's sin that she wants legalized being murder is just too cool ;)

Especially since no one has seen her in combat yet.
Caterane
10-30-06, 11:10 AM I also think the Loyalists will be the replacement. There are several reasons for preferring them to FAC.

- The name "Council" is confusing with the Council of Gladius who plays an active role in the guild system.

- The FAC is evil-themed and we already have an evil guild with the EHTC.

- With two evil guilds, FAC and EHTC, and their ally PSI, there will be a too broad front against the rest. TLT is already hard pressed by two guilds; with a third one popping up right next to them in Merisia, TLT would be cornered. If WAR (Sauro's backup guildmaster there) joins in there is a four guild alliance that can defeat anyone. This is not balanced.

- FAC looks to me more like a band of cutthroats, not an organized guild. EHTC is a trading company - a guild - but FAC is more a para-military group.

- And my main reason against FAC is that Politics is surely the least trait that suits this chaotic gang. Politics is about Negotiations and establishing peaceful contact with groups, guilds, and districts of all alignments. Why should FAC, the band of cutthroats and anarchists, be the master of negotiation, even better than CEF? That's like giving the CEF Crime as primary trait!

-------

Politics and Leisure fits prefectly to monarchists; that's exactly what aristocrats did all the time: celebrate and negotiate. The theme is unopposed and very interesting; it even fills the hole better than EYE. It got 2 voices less than FAC which is more or less as good and from the many responses here who like to add a character to LOY (no one said he would join FAC) I think we should go with this guild.
McJarvis
10-30-06, 11:16 AM no one said he would join FAC

I'm pretty sure people did...at the very least I(duh) have two memebers ready to join & zevox said he would. Also, since the primary goal of the FAC would be to legalize their habits, they are very much political(though perhaps not the chaotic guild you have them set out to be)

However, I see how Monarchists might be easier to run & have an overall focus. Plus newcomers might be attracted to the idea of a guild with a mission. My support stil likes with FAC, but if you(cat) really want to see Monarchists reign, so be it....I've been preparing myself for this for awhile, I figured if you liked them enough they would probably gain support//get through :-) [you are very influencial!]
SauroGrenom
10-30-06, 03:33 PM I'm considering an evil necromancer cleric. Or perhaps a grey elf paragon wizard with an evil nature.

I gave a reasonable justification for the guild being focused on leasure and politics when I proposed the guild. Demon's have political structures, and their own kinds of negotiation tactics. Some are very savy.

I mentioned that the name was immaterial, and any reasonable name could be substituted for the concept. If Council is confusing, then replace the name with something else.

PSI is not evil. PSI is neutral. I don't predict an alliance between PSI and a new evil guild. We already have trashed relations with the new guild anyway due to actions against EYE.

I certianly won't be using WAR as a pet of PSI. WAR has it's own interests and I'm asking Stormwind what he was planning. I intend to follow along with Stormwind's planns untill a new Guildmaster can be found.

EHTC is not a pet of PSI either. They work independantly of PSI, and we do not cordinate our actions. Our alliance is not formal at this point. We don't have the necessary systems in place yet to form a formal alliance. It should be mentioned that PSI and EHTC do not have all the same allies or enemies.

Infact PSI has made recent efforts to not fight with anyone. We've stopped opperations agains other guilds and called a truce with TLT. I don't think that we will be acting against TLT for the forseable future.

True, FAC is Evil themed like EHTC, but EHTC is different, as I mentioned in the original description. I suppose we disagree on the importance of that difference. You have the power to make the decision, and you shall exercise it however you feel is necessary.
MindWandererB
10-30-06, 03:55 PM Well, Cat and I have debated LOY vs. FAC, and as usual, he's not backing down. It looks like it will be LOY at this point.

We'll discuss mechanics in a bit, but we expect the transition to be complete by Nov. 8.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Caterane 10-20-06, 07:57 AM	This is a community poll to find a replacement for The Watchful Eye (EYE) guild. Many proposals have been made in the New Guild: Proposal Submissions. Only those who have a character on the roster may participate! Votes from players without a character will be ignored. You have up to three voices which can be spread among the options. Please vote for the guild you would be interested to join! It does us no good if we have a cool guild but no one gets characters in! The poll ends on the 30th of October. Please note that I will discuss the result with Guildlords to find the replacement so it might happen that the winner of this poll might not be the replacement in the end but it will have a strong impact on our decision. Finally, we'd need a Guildmaster for the guild. If you're interested, submit it here! It earns you 1 Credit per week!
McJarvis 10-20-06, 02:50 PM	Ohhhhyeah, I'm interested in being a guildmaster. I didn't even know it earned me credits :)
Zevox 10-20-06, 02:54 PM	Voted for Loyalists and Free Autonomy Council. The former simply because it sounds like a lot of fun (and I have an easy pre-existing story for a character concept that would fit it), the latter because its one Destra would fit in better than WAR :D . Zevox
MindWandererB 10-20-06, 02:59 PM	I basically had one criteria for my votes: whether my one as-yet unaffiliated character would join. Actually, she's join TFL was well as TAC (I really don't think there's a significant difference between them--I hate to split votes between those two). Of course, if McJarvis is the only one who wants to be guildmaster, that could limit our options somewhat....
McJarvis 10-20-06, 03:08 PM	I basically had one criteria for my votes: whether my one as-yet unaffiliated character would join. Actually, she's join TFL was well as TAC (I really don't think there's a significant difference between them--I hate to split votes between those two). Of course, if McJarvis is the only one who wants to be guildmaster, that could limit our options somewhat.... I'm pretty flexible on what I guild master for. Most of my characters have been designed to fit into multiple guilds in gladius, depending on what I wanted later. I'm more interested in heading a guild more people will enjoy than one that I personally would prefere..(I don't mind the idea of the monarchists- I just think Gladius needs a chaos guild more) Take Mort for instance: Arcane Spell Caster, Manifester, Hider/sniper, Animal-companion owning, neutral watcher type.
MindWandererB 10-20-06, 03:10 PM	I'm pretty flexible on what I guild master for. Most of my characters have been designed to fit into multiple guilds in gladius, depending on what I wanted later. I'm more interested in heading a guild more people will enjoy than one that I personally would prefere..(I don't mind the idea of the monarchists- I just think Gladius needs a chaos guild more) Take Mort for instance: Arcane Spell Caster, Manifester, Hider/sniper, Animal-companion owning, neutral watcher type. So does that mean you'd be willing to join and guildmaster for any guild that "won," even if you didn't vote for it? That'd be good to know.
McJarvis 10-20-06, 03:12 PM	So does that mean you'd be willing to join and guildmaster for any guild that "won," even if you didn't vote for it? That'd be good to know. In addition to what I voted for(TFL, TAC, FAC), I wouldn't mind the Monarchists or the People's party. The others would be a stretch for me to run. edit- oh, and I'd be willing to run SOC too. Forgot about that one :)
MindWandererB 10-20-06, 03:23 PM	In addition to what I voted for(TFL, TAC, FAC), I wouldn't mind the Monarchists or the People's party. The others would be a stretch for me to run. edit- oh, and I'd be willing to run SOC too. Forgot about that one :) So basically, anything but TIS or ODS. Got it.
McJarvis 10-26-06, 12:48 AM	When would the new guild start? Week after Oct 30?
MindWandererB 10-26-06, 01:11 AM	I think it will need more start-up time than that--that leaves only 2 days before the next Wednesday. I hope to have it in full swing by Nov. 8.
TARDIS 10-26-06, 01:11 AM	This is hard.... I LOVE the Loyalists.... they scream "character concepts!" to me. Realisticaly, I think the Freedom League and the Anarchist's council are the same thing. Heck, the Autonomy Council is really the same thing too... perhaps a CN guild based on individual freedoms, with a slight tendency toward evil? The Talasian Illumination Society is extremely intriguing as well... I can definately see the fun there, but beware stepping on the EHTC's toes with the "subtle evil" line. Any of the three would work, but of them I know my current character would join the freedom variant, and a future character would join the Loyalists. Subtle manipulation style evil isn't my thing in that I'm not very good at it, but I certainly enjoy it-- anyone in the market for a lackey?
tunagolem 10-29-06, 03:12 PM	Only those who have a character on the roster may participate! I voted, but I don't know if I count as a player. I had a PC in the past, and I'm fighting for one now.
MindWandererB 10-29-06, 07:21 PM	Your vote counts if you have a character who you intend to have join. Basically, ATM, I expect FAC to have 13 characters on the roster within a few weeks of when it opens (assuming that's the one we go with).
NiQil 10-29-06, 07:40 PM	Your vote counts if you have a character who you intend to have join. Basically, ATM, I expect FAC to have 13 characters on the roster within a few weeks of when it opens (assuming that's the one we go with). I would call that highly optimistic on your part. I would bet the number is closer to half that. Keep in mind that everyone was allowed to vote for three selections, so just because someone voted for a selection, doesn't mean that's one that they will join...it could just be that they think the idea is a good one. I, for one, cast my votes with no intention of joining any of the guilds. I think the guild system as is stands now is going nowhere fast, and have no desire to be involved with it at the moment.
MindWandererB 10-29-06, 08:15 PM	I would call that highly optimistic on your part. I would bet the number is closer to half that. Keep in mind that everyone was allowed to vote for three selections, so just because someone voted for a selection, doesn't mean that's one that they will join...it could just be that they think the idea is a good one. I, for one, cast my votes with no intention of joining any of the guilds. I think the guild system as is stands now is going nowhere fast, and have no desire to be involved with it at the moment. Except the instructions say this: "Please vote for the guild you would be interested to join! It does us no good if we have a cool guild but no one gets characters in!" I'd like to think that expecting people to actually follow the instructions isn't overly optimistic. So if you voted for a guild, but you don't intend to join it, then your vote was cast in error. Since you have admitted this, NiQil, your votes will be disregarded. If anyone else placed votes for similar reasons, let me know now! If FAC wins the vote, but a different guild would have attracted more members, then this whole thing is pointless and we'll need to do this a different way.
NiQil 10-29-06, 08:44 PM	To my knowledge, those instructions were not in the post when I voted, though I could be mistaken. Either way, I think you will find that your numbers are optimistic. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Caterane 10-30-06, 06:03 AM	This poll was more to see which guild would be attractive, not to reach a final decision. FAC (12) and LOY (10) are the top candidates. We now have to see which guild will be added as replacement for EYE.
Gonbow 10-30-06, 10:21 AM	I'm kind of surprised the Draconic Order didn't get more votes. The idea wasn't extremely fleshed out in the initial post, but it was interesting. Oh well, heres hoping the Loyalists win; Tatyana just took 5 ranks in knowledge royalty for a reason, dang it! ^_^
McJarvis 10-30-06, 10:32 AM	I'm kind of surprised the Draconic Order didn't get more votes. The idea wasn't extremely fleshed out in the initial post, but it was interesting. Oh well, heres hoping the Loyalists win; Tatyana just took 5 ranks in knowledge royalty for a reason, dang it! ^_^ The only reason I didn't support it is that I have no current characters that are draconic, and no real plans for characters that are.
Zevox 10-30-06, 10:58 AM	I'm kind of surprised the Draconic Order didn't get more votes. The idea wasn't extremely fleshed out in the initial post, but it was interesting. Oh well, heres hoping the Loyalists win; Tatyana just took 5 ranks in knowledge royalty for a reason, dang it! ^_^ I think McJarvis has the main reason it didn't get more votes down there - just how many Dragon-theme characters would you get into such a Guild? We have all of two True Dragons on the roster right now (both frozen), and two more and a Pseudodragon retired (all of which were associated with other Guilds). Beyond that you've got Kobolds, Half-Dragons, and Dragon Disciples before you start getting into thinner excuses for membership, and none of those are precisely populous either. And I'm kinda hoping the Loyalists win too - my next character (Mithos) fits there a lot better than the alternative :) . Zevox
hogarth 10-30-06, 11:04 AM	And I'm kinda hoping the Loyalists win too - my next character (Mithos) fits there a lot better than the alternative :) . I'm hoping that the prospective Guildmaster's favorite idea wins, whichever that may be. What's the point of creating a new guild if the guildmaster isn't enthusiastic about running it? Especially since there's already an existing guild that no one seems particulaly anxious to lead?
McJarvis 10-30-06, 11:06 AM	I'm hoping that the prospective Guildmaster's favorite idea wins, whichever that may be. What's the point of creating a new guild if the guildmaster isn't enthusiastic about running it? As stated, while my favor goes towards the FAC, I have a few ideas for where I can take Mort/Poe's characters if the Monarchists win. Though that doesn't change the fact- I really want FAC to win :-) The idea of Mort's sin that she wants legalized being murder is just too cool ;) Especially since no one has seen her in combat yet.
Caterane 10-30-06, 11:10 AM	I also think the Loyalists will be the replacement. There are several reasons for preferring them to FAC. - The name "Council" is confusing with the Council of Gladius who plays an active role in the guild system. - The FAC is evil-themed and we already have an evil guild with the EHTC. - With two evil guilds, FAC and EHTC, and their ally PSI, there will be a too broad front against the rest. TLT is already hard pressed by two guilds; with a third one popping up right next to them in Merisia, TLT would be cornered. If WAR (Sauro's backup guildmaster there) joins in there is a four guild alliance that can defeat anyone. This is not balanced. - FAC looks to me more like a band of cutthroats, not an organized guild. EHTC is a trading company - a guild - but FAC is more a para-military group. - And my main reason against FAC is that Politics is surely the least trait that suits this chaotic gang. Politics is about Negotiations and establishing peaceful contact with groups, guilds, and districts of all alignments. Why should FAC, the band of cutthroats and anarchists, be the master of negotiation, even better than CEF? That's like giving the CEF Crime as primary trait! ------- Politics and Leisure fits prefectly to monarchists; that's exactly what aristocrats did all the time: celebrate and negotiate. The theme is unopposed and very interesting; it even fills the hole better than EYE. It got 2 voices less than FAC which is more or less as good and from the many responses here who like to add a character to LOY (no one said he would join FAC) I think we should go with this guild.
McJarvis 10-30-06, 11:16 AM	no one said he would join FAC I'm pretty sure people did...at the very least I(duh) have two memebers ready to join & zevox said he would. Also, since the primary goal of the FAC would be to legalize their habits, they are very much political(though perhaps not the chaotic guild you have them set out to be) However, I see how Monarchists might be easier to run & have an overall focus. Plus newcomers might be attracted to the idea of a guild with a mission. My support stil likes with FAC, but if you(cat) really want to see Monarchists reign, so be it....I've been preparing myself for this for awhile, I figured if you liked them enough they would probably gain support//get through :-) [you are very influencial!]
SauroGrenom 10-30-06, 03:33 PM	I'm considering an evil necromancer cleric. Or perhaps a grey elf paragon wizard with an evil nature. I gave a reasonable justification for the guild being focused on leasure and politics when I proposed the guild. Demon's have political structures, and their own kinds of negotiation tactics. Some are very savy. I mentioned that the name was immaterial, and any reasonable name could be substituted for the concept. If Council is confusing, then replace the name with something else. PSI is not evil. PSI is neutral. I don't predict an alliance between PSI and a new evil guild. We already have trashed relations with the new guild anyway due to actions against EYE. I certianly won't be using WAR as a pet of PSI. WAR has it's own interests and I'm asking Stormwind what he was planning. I intend to follow along with Stormwind's planns untill a new Guildmaster can be found. EHTC is not a pet of PSI either. They work independantly of PSI, and we do not cordinate our actions. Our alliance is not formal at this point. We don't have the necessary systems in place yet to form a formal alliance. It should be mentioned that PSI and EHTC do not have all the same allies or enemies. Infact PSI has made recent efforts to not fight with anyone. We've stopped opperations agains other guilds and called a truce with TLT. I don't think that we will be acting against TLT for the forseable future. True, FAC is Evil themed like EHTC, but EHTC is different, as I mentioned in the original description. I suppose we disagree on the importance of that difference. You have the power to make the decision, and you shall exercise it however you feel is necessary.
MindWandererB 10-30-06, 03:55 PM	Well, Cat and I have debated LOY vs. FAC, and as usual, he's not backing down. It looks like it will be LOY at this point. We'll discuss mechanics in a bit, but we expect the transition to be complete by Nov. 8.