Copying spells from NPC's or Scrolls [Archive] - Wizards Community

Copying spells from NPC's or Scrolls [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jindl
03-18-04, 11:00 AM The Poll is now Closed. Final Vote: 17-12 in favor of "No".

This poll is to determine whether Wizards can copy spells from NPC's (at a fee of 50 gp per spell level as suggested in the PHB) or whether new spells must be learned by purchasing scrolls to copy (at full market value). In either case, the normal cost of 100 gp per page for materials would still be required to copy the spell into a normal spellbook (though a Blessed Book eliminates the cost of these materials).

The Elders already voted 4-4 on the issue, please read the Elder Forum for some of the reasons for their votes (but do not post there...)

If your name appears on the list below, then you are eligible to vote. Please vote by clicking the appropriate choice above, then posting you vote (Yes, No, or Abstain) on this thread.

IMPORTANT: Please make one (and only one) post in this thread after you have voted, stating what your vote was. Do NOT post anything but votes on this thread. ALL discussion should be directed to the Tavern.

The House of Commons:
Beldin
Mustadio[MoF]
Myrridin
Arstimis
Bishop the Bardican
Coyote Skyheart
Nivek Longshadow
Rayne
Druid Roxors
Battousai2005
Xeno-eleusis
Cellardweller
Kaigan
Pitbull
Tharkos
Sshuit
Jonah Black
Kattattack22
Mercy
Rosella
KerlanRayne
Hatzinger
Marketshare
Alterlat
Barrelmaster
Ethendril
Postalboy
Kedi
Rozman

Council of Elder Mods:
Moherajikuyx
Tellish of Ket
SnarkHunter
Magagumo
Jindl
LLMadCow
Motherbast
Caterane

Please vote only if your name is in the list!

Poll will be closed on March 22nd. That way, it will be in effect for the next round of pairings.

Happy voting!

-Jindl
Myrridin
03-18-04, 11:10 AM I voted Yes.
Jindl
03-18-04, 11:10 AM No
Beldin
03-18-04, 11:15 AM no
Rosella
03-18-04, 11:46 AM no; A spellbook is sacred to a wizard, you'd better pay full price for a scroll or go without!
LLMadCow
03-18-04, 12:20 PM Everyone keeps saying that a wizards spellbook is sacred to him ... or that his spells are sacred to him ... but someone is willing to sell their SACRED information to others in the form of a scroll? What's up with that? If it was really sacred, they wouldn't sell it in any form. If a mage is willing to sell scrolls, then he is willing to sell the spells straight out of his spellbook and save money all the way around. Lets say he crafts and sells a scroll (Cat's Grace for this example). He makes 45gp for the sale. Now lets say that he just sells the right for wizards to copy spell from his book. He makes 100 gold for the sale. So, this method takes less time for him, makes him more money and doesn't needlessly waste materials (He's a conservative elf who says 'Save the planet!'). Look at it this way, if this wasn't going on in the Arena Town, I, an enterprising wizard would make it start happening. I would save the gold and start making second copy of my spellbook and expand the collection of spels that I own. I would set up shop and rake in the VAST amount of gold to be had by letting wizards copy from my spellbooks. So, I have to have some good security in place to make sure nothing gets stolen, but EVERYONE would come to me since they could save a fair amount of gp by copying from my book instead of having to buy scrolls first. So, like I said, SACRED MY ***!

That's right, I forgot, no one in the Arena Town actually wants to make money, they just want to support the gladiators in their endeavors...

Just in case you couldn't tell, I voted Yes.
Hatzinger
03-18-04, 12:29 PM Yes.
Wizards already pay as much as other characters for their equipment. In addition, they have to pay 100gp/spell-level for copying a single new spell. I don´t want to force them to additionally having to buy the scroll itself at full price. That would make Wizards comparatively poorer than other characters, imho.
KerlanRayne
03-18-04, 12:58 PM Yes.
Caterane
03-18-04, 01:05 PM Yes, of course. We completely ignore RP issues (or can you walk in your campaign in a shop with 120k an buy a holy avenger?? or: "Hey DM, I need a Red Dragon." - "Ok, here comes one." or: "Free true ressurections!! Just 25k per gladiator per week! Special offer today!!"). Forget the roleplaying. There is none, at least it`s far easier to get a wizard payed to copy a spell than the above examples.
Mercy
03-18-04, 01:06 PM No
Ethendril
03-18-04, 01:09 PM No.

Mostly because wizards have so many other advantages with being able to scribe scrolls, create magic items, etc. Fighters are already behind in equipment, so this would only add to the problem.
kattattack22
03-18-04, 01:45 PM I voted no, because I agree with Ethendril's arguements. Other people had really good arguements for yes, but I play a fighter and I see how much being able to craft magic items helps spellcasters.
Arstimis
03-18-04, 01:48 PM Yes, for the reasons LLMadCow and Cat have explained
To say no to this rule would be making a houserule, something that is avoided in this arena

Edit: this is a very small rp issue compared to rpying involved in getting any kind of ally
barrel_master
03-18-04, 02:38 PM yes for the reason that it states in the srd 'At any time, a wizard can also add spells found in other wizards’ spellbooks to her own.'

Although, to be honest, I'm still on the fence, sort of. By allowing this, it effectively removes the 'number of known spells' cap that is usually imposed on wizzards and their spell books. Besides, having to pay for the scrolls themselves isn't all that bad.
Tellish_of_Ket
03-18-04, 03:19 PM NO,

Just my opinion. Just because other RP issues are ignored, doesn't mean we can keep ignoring them for other things. At least keep some semblance of normalicy.

-ToK
Druid Roxors
03-18-04, 03:47 PM Yes
MotherBast
03-18-04, 03:52 PM voted no.
cellardweller
03-18-04, 08:09 PM yep
^Rayne^
03-18-04, 08:15 PM I am really on the fense on this one... I would vote yes if the "NPC's" being referred to were only other gladiators in the arena. There would have to be a link to the sale and approval by another player with a spellbook. This could allow some higher level wizards make a little money but not that much. In addition it will limit too much easy access to expensive spells and it is dependant on an agreement between players. I think since it isn't specified that it can only happen between players in the arena I'm going to vote No on this resolution. I would vote yes if a new thread was started up just for these copying privelages so all players know what is going on. However I don't believe this will be that organized. If this goes through I see it benefitting wizards a great deal while the little sorcerer (who I think is weaker than their wizard counterpart already) is getting a raw deal.

My vote will be officially listed as No.
xeno_eleusis
03-18-04, 09:20 PM No, you cannot copy from NPC's spellbooks.

Yes, copying spells from scrolls that you buy plus materials 100 gp per page is fine.

** edit **

I voted no. Do I understand the question, is it either or?
JonahBlack
03-19-04, 08:37 PM No.

I'm with the fighter contingent.

Edit: Hmmm... A fighter contingent...I like the sound of that...
SnarkHunter
03-20-04, 12:59 AM oui
Kaigan
03-20-04, 10:52 AM Voted. No.
Magagumo
03-20-04, 12:24 PM This shouldn't be a balancing point in our arena, it should be considered individually of all other rules. Just because magic users can craft items, (as can clerics, but they don't scribe into spellbooks ;)) doesn't mean we need to punish them by forbidding them access to spells...

I vote Yes
sshuit
03-20-04, 01:04 PM Voted No. Reasons similar to those already stated.

sshuit
Market_Share
03-20-04, 05:57 PM Nope.

And i have a wizard, so i'm definately not biased.

SPIKE!
Pittbull
03-21-04, 06:31 PM No!
sshuit
03-21-04, 06:34 PM They HAVE access to spells by buying them in scroll form and copying them to spell books. Why given them a "discounted" way to get spells they need. They already get 2 free from each level, and can scribe scrolls which other classes cannnot do in most cases without using a very valuable feat.

I'm not suggesting that wizards have no access to more spells, just that they pay for them just like a fighter has to pay for their weapons and potions and armor.

Originally posted by Magagumo
This shouldn't be a balancing point in our arena, it should be considered individually of all other rules. Just because magic users can craft items, (as can clerics, but they don't scribe into spellbooks ;)) doesn't mean we need to punish them by forbidding them access to spells...

I vote Yes
Alterlat
03-21-04, 06:38 PM Voted no.
Rozman
03-22-04, 07:22 PM Voted no.
PostalBoy
03-22-04, 07:58 PM Why not?

Wizards are intellects that have research of magical effects in common. Sharing with fellow reasearchers (albiet for a price) would certianly be a Wizard like thing to do. Of course not all Wizards are sociable folk, but thats why we have adventurers, to keep unsociable wizards in check.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jindl 03-18-04, 11:00 AM	The Poll is now Closed. Final Vote: 17-12 in favor of "No". This poll is to determine whether Wizards can copy spells from NPC's (at a fee of 50 gp per spell level as suggested in the PHB) or whether new spells must be learned by purchasing scrolls to copy (at full market value). In either case, the normal cost of 100 gp per page for materials would still be required to copy the spell into a normal spellbook (though a Blessed Book eliminates the cost of these materials). The Elders already voted 4-4 on the issue, please read the Elder Forum for some of the reasons for their votes (but do not post there...) If your name appears on the list below, then you are eligible to vote. Please vote by clicking the appropriate choice above, then posting you vote (Yes, No, or Abstain) on this thread. IMPORTANT: Please make one (and only one) post in this thread after you have voted, stating what your vote was. Do NOT post anything but votes on this thread. ALL discussion should be directed to the Tavern. The House of Commons: Beldin Mustadio[MoF] Myrridin Arstimis Bishop the Bardican Coyote Skyheart Nivek Longshadow Rayne Druid Roxors Battousai2005 Xeno-eleusis Cellardweller Kaigan Pitbull Tharkos Sshuit Jonah Black Kattattack22 Mercy Rosella KerlanRayne Hatzinger Marketshare Alterlat Barrelmaster Ethendril Postalboy Kedi Rozman Council of Elder Mods: Moherajikuyx Tellish of Ket SnarkHunter Magagumo Jindl LLMadCow Motherbast Caterane Please vote only if your name is in the list! Poll will be closed on March 22nd. That way, it will be in effect for the next round of pairings. Happy voting! -Jindl
Myrridin 03-18-04, 11:10 AM	I voted Yes.
Jindl 03-18-04, 11:10 AM	No
Beldin 03-18-04, 11:15 AM	no
Rosella 03-18-04, 11:46 AM	no; A spellbook is sacred to a wizard, you'd better pay full price for a scroll or go without!
LLMadCow 03-18-04, 12:20 PM	Everyone keeps saying that a wizards spellbook is sacred to him ... or that his spells are sacred to him ... but someone is willing to sell their SACRED information to others in the form of a scroll? What's up with that? If it was really sacred, they wouldn't sell it in any form. If a mage is willing to sell scrolls, then he is willing to sell the spells straight out of his spellbook and save money all the way around. Lets say he crafts and sells a scroll (Cat's Grace for this example). He makes 45gp for the sale. Now lets say that he just sells the right for wizards to copy spell from his book. He makes 100 gold for the sale. So, this method takes less time for him, makes him more money and doesn't needlessly waste materials (He's a conservative elf who says 'Save the planet!'). Look at it this way, if this wasn't going on in the Arena Town, I, an enterprising wizard would make it start happening. I would save the gold and start making second copy of my spellbook and expand the collection of spels that I own. I would set up shop and rake in the VAST amount of gold to be had by letting wizards copy from my spellbooks. So, I have to have some good security in place to make sure nothing gets stolen, but EVERYONE would come to me since they could save a fair amount of gp by copying from my book instead of having to buy scrolls first. So, like I said, SACRED MY ***! That's right, I forgot, no one in the Arena Town actually wants to make money, they just want to support the gladiators in their endeavors... Just in case you couldn't tell, I voted Yes.
Hatzinger 03-18-04, 12:29 PM	Yes. Wizards already pay as much as other characters for their equipment. In addition, they have to pay 100gp/spell-level for copying a single new spell. I don´t want to force them to additionally having to buy the scroll itself at full price. That would make Wizards comparatively poorer than other characters, imho.
KerlanRayne 03-18-04, 12:58 PM	Yes.
Caterane 03-18-04, 01:05 PM	Yes, of course. We completely ignore RP issues (or can you walk in your campaign in a shop with 120k an buy a holy avenger?? or: "Hey DM, I need a Red Dragon." - "Ok, here comes one." or: "Free true ressurections!! Just 25k per gladiator per week! Special offer today!!"). Forget the roleplaying. There is none, at least it`s far easier to get a wizard payed to copy a spell than the above examples.
Mercy 03-18-04, 01:06 PM	No
Ethendril 03-18-04, 01:09 PM	No. Mostly because wizards have so many other advantages with being able to scribe scrolls, create magic items, etc. Fighters are already behind in equipment, so this would only add to the problem.
kattattack22 03-18-04, 01:45 PM	I voted no, because I agree with Ethendril's arguements. Other people had really good arguements for yes, but I play a fighter and I see how much being able to craft magic items helps spellcasters.
Arstimis 03-18-04, 01:48 PM	Yes, for the reasons LLMadCow and Cat have explained To say no to this rule would be making a houserule, something that is avoided in this arena Edit: this is a very small rp issue compared to rpying involved in getting any kind of ally
barrel_master 03-18-04, 02:38 PM	yes for the reason that it states in the srd 'At any time, a wizard can also add spells found in other wizards’ spellbooks to her own.' Although, to be honest, I'm still on the fence, sort of. By allowing this, it effectively removes the 'number of known spells' cap that is usually imposed on wizzards and their spell books. Besides, having to pay for the scrolls themselves isn't all that bad.
Tellish_of_Ket 03-18-04, 03:19 PM	NO, Just my opinion. Just because other RP issues are ignored, doesn't mean we can keep ignoring them for other things. At least keep some semblance of normalicy. -ToK
Druid Roxors 03-18-04, 03:47 PM	Yes
MotherBast 03-18-04, 03:52 PM	voted no.
cellardweller 03-18-04, 08:09 PM	yep
^Rayne^ 03-18-04, 08:15 PM	I am really on the fense on this one... I would vote yes if the "NPC's" being referred to were only other gladiators in the arena. There would have to be a link to the sale and approval by another player with a spellbook. This could allow some higher level wizards make a little money but not that much. In addition it will limit too much easy access to expensive spells and it is dependant on an agreement between players. I think since it isn't specified that it can only happen between players in the arena I'm going to vote No on this resolution. I would vote yes if a new thread was started up just for these copying privelages so all players know what is going on. However I don't believe this will be that organized. If this goes through I see it benefitting wizards a great deal while the little sorcerer (who I think is weaker than their wizard counterpart already) is getting a raw deal. My vote will be officially listed as No.
xeno_eleusis 03-18-04, 09:20 PM	No, you cannot copy from NPC's spellbooks. Yes, copying spells from scrolls that you buy plus materials 100 gp per page is fine. edit I voted no. Do I understand the question, is it either or?
JonahBlack 03-19-04, 08:37 PM	No. I'm with the fighter contingent. Edit: Hmmm... A fighter contingent...I like the sound of that...
SnarkHunter 03-20-04, 12:59 AM	oui
Kaigan 03-20-04, 10:52 AM	Voted. No.
Magagumo 03-20-04, 12:24 PM	This shouldn't be a balancing point in our arena, it should be considered individually of all other rules. Just because magic users can craft items, (as can clerics, but they don't scribe into spellbooks ;)) doesn't mean we need to punish them by forbidding them access to spells... I vote Yes
sshuit 03-20-04, 01:04 PM	Voted No. Reasons similar to those already stated. sshuit
Market_Share 03-20-04, 05:57 PM	Nope. And i have a wizard, so i'm definately not biased. SPIKE!
Pittbull 03-21-04, 06:31 PM	No!
sshuit 03-21-04, 06:34 PM	They HAVE access to spells by buying them in scroll form and copying them to spell books. Why given them a "discounted" way to get spells they need. They already get 2 free from each level, and can scribe scrolls which other classes cannnot do in most cases without using a very valuable feat. I'm not suggesting that wizards have no access to more spells, just that they pay for them just like a fighter has to pay for their weapons and potions and armor. Originally posted by Magagumo This shouldn't be a balancing point in our arena, it should be considered individually of all other rules. Just because magic users can craft items, (as can clerics, but they don't scribe into spellbooks ;)) doesn't mean we need to punish them by forbidding them access to spells... I vote Yes
Alterlat 03-21-04, 06:38 PM	Voted no.
Rozman 03-22-04, 07:22 PM	Voted no.
PostalBoy 03-22-04, 07:58 PM	Why not? Wizards are intellects that have research of magical effects in common. Sharing with fellow reasearchers (albiet for a price) would certianly be a Wizard like thing to do. Of course not all Wizards are sociable folk, but thats why we have adventurers, to keep unsociable wizards in check.