Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Caterane 12-08-04, 11:25 AM	For Newbies: Quickstart Guide (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179917) It was half an hour past closing time but the innkeeper was still up and cleaning some of the tables. It has been an eventful day but he has made a lot of money today, as he made every day with all the masses of customers, most of them gladiators who spend their money like there is no end to it! He himself emptied a mug of Bulls Strength, a special brew prefered by our tougher gladiators, then blew off the candles in the room, and went to bed. Tomorow will be another day full of work. And as the sun began to rise over the horizon, the first customers already stood infront of his door. This is the New Tavern which will continue what the Old Tavern (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=192697) began: discussing, debating, chatting, fraternizing, asking, answering, and ranting; all those things that make the members of the CoCo grow closer together! The last 6000 posts of our old Tavern have written a lot of history. Let's try to find out what the next Tavern brings...
Pittbull 12-08-04, 11:48 AM	Yeah, first reply! I like this new place! Perhaps I'll visit more often! :D
Snommelp 12-08-04, 12:38 PM	Hrm, a new tavern, eh? I don't know, the old tavern is just so near and dear to me...
Huan 12-08-04, 02:21 PM	A spur-of-the-moment haiku for this occaision ... Applaud! A new Tavern, I know we'll see new faces. Slash! Boom! Level Up!
Caterane 12-08-04, 02:30 PM	First topic: The new Custom Avatar for the CoCo! Who can create one or knows someone who can?
Snommelp 12-08-04, 02:50 PM	We could always ask the people on the Art thread for input.
Pittbull 12-08-04, 05:13 PM	Cool idea! :love:
Battousai2005 12-08-04, 05:45 PM	5w337! Anyone got any b33r? None of that watered down stuff in the other tavern. :D Not that I drink...
Piuro 12-08-04, 10:49 PM	First topic: The new Custom Avatar for the CoCo! Who can create one or knows someone who can? I do professional graphic design. I can probably do it, but what do you mean by avatar? Like, an actual avatar or a banner?
Battousai2005 12-08-04, 11:02 PM	So, anyway, back to da rulz. I know that we are not allowed to use wands, scrolls, idiotic remarks, and cliches used by other classes. However, I was wondering if a wizard can use a staff of life or healing. Just curious. EDIT: While I'm curious and remember what I'm doing...wait...almost got it...oh, yah. Can someone give me an estimate as to total gold for a lev 10 char?
Sindorin 12-08-04, 11:19 PM	I do professional graphic design. I can probably do it, but what do you mean by avatar? Like, an actual avatar or a banner? He means we get our own custom pic that goes where the Demonic Tutor would go next to every post that Ash or Cat makes on the Pitlords account. Pretty nice idea, IMO.
LLMadCow 12-08-04, 11:41 PM	EDIT: While I'm curious and remember what I'm doing...wait...almost got it...oh, yah. Can someone give me an estimate as to total gold for a lev 10 char? Level 10 Characters have a total of 49,000 gold.
Ashenai 12-08-04, 11:51 PM	So, anyway, back to da rulz. I know that we are not allowed to use wands, scrolls, idiotic remarks, and cliches used by other classes. Heh. However, I was wondering if a wizard can use a staff of life or healing. Just curious. Nope. Staffs work exactly the same as wands do, except that: 1) A staff can have several different spells in it 2) Spells in a staff can be up to level 8 (wands can only hold spells up to 4th level) 3) You use your own ability score bonuses and feats that modify DC when casting from a staff, and you can choose to use your own caster level as well, if you like. EDIT: While I'm curious and remember what I'm doing...wait...almost got it...oh, yah. Can someone give me an estimate as to total gold for a lev 10 char? 49,000 gp.
Battousai2005 12-09-04, 12:02 AM	Whee! Ph33r da D41d34. Ph33r with gr34t ph33r! Yay! About 1 month in the making. Everyone meet Martalves, (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5012314&postcount=279) The drider (sorta). Scan for errors as usual. Coincidentally, I was looking at the story I wrote for him and had an idea. Just for eveyones knowledge. The story is going to progress, but it will progress depending on what happens to him in and out of the arena. It made it feel more RPish to me. So, as I periodically post in the Roleplay thread, please, participate by all means! Oh, can anyone find me a drider pic? Also a drow warrior male? I could use those. Thanks!
LLMadCow 12-09-04, 01:10 AM	Everyone meet Martalves, (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5012314&postcount=279) The drider (sorta). Scan for errors as usual. Well, at first glance, the only issue I see is that you changed the racial Feats. If I am not mistaken, all Feats that are included in the MM creature description MUST be taken. As the character advances, you can select whatever you wish. Edit: Also you may want to note the total ECL 10.
LLMadCow 12-09-04, 07:51 AM	Quoted from Kedi's Signature... Kedi noun, WotC slang Form of positivity, happiness and assness. verb, WotC (to kedi, keding) Content removed -WizO_Illusen Signature last edited by WizO_Illusen : Today at 11:10 AM. Reason: Violates CoC's 'discussion of or in-character enactments of graphic violence or bloodletting' prohibitition. :rofl: :evillaugh :rofl:
Caterane 12-09-04, 10:06 AM	Well, at first glance, the only issue I see is that you changed the racial Feats. If I am not mistaken, all Feats that are included in the MM creature description MUST be taken. As the character advances, you can select whatever you wish. Edit: Also you may want to note the total ECL 10. You don't have to pick the feats mentioned in its MM entry. @Battousai: you might want to count the credits you need to play a drider: ECL 10 = 24 credits. You have 15 at the moment.
Piuro 12-09-04, 04:09 PM	Whee! Ph33r da D41d34. Ph33r with gr34t ph33r! Yay! About 1 month in the making... I thin you mean |)|2||)3|2 |) = D |2 = R | = I 3 = E 4 = A Not that it matters, because the board language is english, not Script Kiddy.
Battousai2005 12-09-04, 06:58 PM	I thin you mean |)|2||)3|2 |) = D |2 = R | = I 3 = E 4 = A Not that it matters, because the board language is english, not Script Kiddy. Heh. Yah. I notice that most people have their own form of 1337 (l337, l33t, 133t) speak. I speak L3nglish, myself. @Cat: Well, its a little over 2 months, but hey. I never got to do anything fun offline. This is the only place I can do it. And what can be more fun than a 7 foot tall centaur like cross between a dark elf and spider whose alignment differs from the norm so much he should be shot? @Anyone who actually looked for errors: Now to dock the 1 from attack for size...
Beldin 12-12-04, 12:18 PM	Is it allowed to change cohorts? Nekhekhatek, Rhaegars cohort, cannot become a Arcane Trikster (forgot about mage hand requirement - he is banned from transmutation) and is not too successful anyway
Sindorin 12-12-04, 12:32 PM	As far as I know, yes he is, in fact Tair Malek has changed his on several occasions without violation.
Snommelp 12-12-04, 09:33 PM	Tara's fight with Khalil Odar (now fixed) brought up a very interesting point: what happens if there's a tie? Before the fight was fixed, Khalil shot Tara when he was at 0, bringing both down to -1. After that, neither one stabilized. What would happen in a situation like that? Would both advance, or perhaps would both stay in their bracket? Or, would the fight need to be rerun entirely?
Einzelgaenger 12-12-04, 09:36 PM	Tara's fight with Khalil Odar (now fixed) brought up a very interesting point: what happens if there's a tie? Before the fight was fixed, Khalil shot Tara when he was at 0, bringing both down to -1. After that, neither one stabilized. What would happen in a situation like that? Would both advance, or perhaps would both stay in their bracket? Or, would the fight need to be rerun entirely? there still is an order of events...would the one who dropped to -10 first be the loser?
T'Var 12-12-04, 10:07 PM	Tara's fight with Khalil Odar (now fixed) brought up a very interesting point: what happens if there's a tie? Before the fight was fixed, Khalil shot Tara when he was at 0, bringing both down to -1. After that, neither one stabilized. What would happen in a situation like that? Would both advance, or perhaps would both stay in their bracket? Or, would the fight need to be rerun entirely? very true lol they both would have died on the same round. and since Khalil's shot brought him and Tara to -1 on his action they would have blead to death at the same time....sudden death perhaps lol a single arrow each with no obsticals and 30 feet seperating each other
Ashenai 12-12-04, 10:25 PM	Tara's fight with Khalil Odar (now fixed) brought up a very interesting point: what happens if there's a tie? Before the fight was fixed, Khalil shot Tara when he was at 0, bringing both down to -1. After that, neither one stabilized. What would happen in a situation like that? Would both advance, or perhaps would both stay in their bracket? Or, would the fight need to be rerun entirely? In the case you mentioned, the one who goes to -10 first would lose, even if the other guy would go to -10 in the same round. Ties are possible, but only by an effect that brings both gladiators to -10 or lower at the same time. This has never happened; if it does happen, it's up to the pitlord to decide on a winner. How he does it is up to him. Here are some suggestions: The gladiator closest to 0 hps wins (If one is at -23 hps and the other is at -30, the first guy wins). The gladiator who took the action killing them both wins. Roll a d2 for determining the winner. Both gladiators are healed up to 1 hp. The fight continues (with new initiative rolls or not).
Snommelp 12-12-04, 11:38 PM	I like the first two options. If this ever comes up for me, I'll probably use one of those. Now, for something completely different: which races don't have ears? Tara has decided to start collecting ears, and I want to know if any of her opponents (xephs, dromites, etc.) don't have ears for her to take.
Sindorin 12-13-04, 12:08 AM	heh, on behalf of Cliche, a dromite, their ears are impacted in their heads, rather hard to remove. They do have antennae, though, which I think would make a fair substitute if Tara ever gets the best of Cliche.
KerlanRayne 12-13-04, 12:49 AM	Khalil has been bumped. KerlanRayne
Battousai2005 12-13-04, 09:50 AM	heh, on behalf of Cliche, a dromite, their ears are impacted in their heads, rather hard to remove. They do have antennae, though, which I think would make a fair substitute if Tara ever gets the best of Cliche. ...Oooooooooooooooookkkkkkkkaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaayyyyyyyyyyyy...I think its time for a new topic. So here is a question for the masses. Everyone knows the 10 rounds inactive rule, right? Well, crazy occurence. What happens if (this is horribly unlikely, I know, but think two wimpy wizards) both of them stand there for over 10 rounds without moving?
Sindorin 12-13-04, 09:56 AM	lol, hey, Snommelp's the one collecting the ears :)
T'Var 12-13-04, 10:39 AM	...Oooooooooooooooookkkkkkkkaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaayyyyyyyyyyyy...I think its time for a new topic. So here is a question for the masses. Everyone knows the 10 rounds inactive rule, right? Well, crazy occurence. What happens if (this is horribly unlikely, I know, but think two wimpy wizards) both of them stand there for over 10 rounds without moving? arena fans start throwing beer cans and half eaten hot dogs on them auto hitting for d6 dmg a round each
Jindl 12-13-04, 12:10 PM	@Batt - There are two levels for the 10 round rule. Lesser 10 round rule: Avoiding combat for 10 consecutive rounds = minor penalty (perhaps a -1 luck penalty to your rolls for then next 10 rounds, etc). Note that it must be 10 consecutive rounds, and its not cumulative during the fight (otherwise it would hamstring the sneaky types). Effects that fall under the Lesser 10 round rule: Meld into Stone, Fly, Hiding, Invisibility, Running away, Using incorporeality/burrowing to move within total cover from the floors/cieling/walls, etc. Greater 10 round rule: Leaving the arena (the prime material plane area displayed on the map, which includes the 10 ft thickness of walls, ceiling, and floor of the arena) for a total of 10 rounds during a fight results in automatic loss. This is cumulative for the fight. Effects that fall under the Greater 10 round rule: Rope Trick, Etherealness, Plane Shift, Teleporting outside the arena, Travelling beyond the 10 ft thickness of the floors/walls/cieling using burrowing/incorporeality, etc. @Pitlords - This would be a good post to link to the arena map, at least until I finally get the FAQ updated. -Jindl
T'Var 12-13-04, 07:58 PM	T'Var, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons: 1) Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system? 2)If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation. If anyone is having trouble posting, and this message comes up while trying to post. the reason is that during the mantainance this morning of the boards an error was created that prevents anyone using Norton AntiVirus to post. you have to disable your Norton to post. havent heard any news on when this problem will be fixed but ill bet it will be within a day or so
Einzelgaenger 12-13-04, 08:36 PM	...Oooooooooooooooookkkkkkkkaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaayyyyyyyyyyyy...I think its time for a new topic. So here is a question for the masses. Everyone knows the 10 rounds inactive rule, right? Well, crazy occurence. What happens if (this is horribly unlikely, I know, but think two wimpy wizards) both of them stand there for over 10 rounds without moving? the one with the most hp wins?
Pittbull 12-14-04, 06:20 AM	Talking about damage-reduction: Does DR from adamantine armor stack with other DRs, for example from a celestial-template, or is it overlaped?
Beldin 12-14-04, 07:17 AM	uhm, can someone post the Red Wizard prestige class? I wanted Rhaegars cohort to be one, but it is not in the Srd and I do not own the Dmg 3.5. Or is that forbidden by the coc?
T'Var 12-14-04, 09:14 AM	uhm, can someone post the Red Wizard prestige class? I wanted Rhaegars cohort to be one, but it is not in the Srd and I do not own the Dmg 3.5. Or is that forbidden by the coc? it is copywrited info, the Wizo's would flay us if we posted it.
T'Var 12-14-04, 09:18 AM	Talking about damage-reduction: Does DR from adamantine armor stack with other DRs, for example from a celestial-template, or is it overlaped? unless stated in its text DR overlaps not stacks
Jindl 12-14-04, 10:16 AM	@Beldin - Check http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.html and look at the Index of Prestige Classes PDF, page 16. -Jindl
Beldin 12-14-04, 05:37 PM	Thankyou
Pittbull 12-14-04, 05:53 PM	I'm just getting into psionics: If I expend my psionic focus for, for examle, psionic weapon in one round, do I have to concentrate (full-round-action) in the next round to get my psionic focus back again? Or is it refreshed automatically? Thanks
Jindl 12-14-04, 06:08 PM	I'm just getting into psionics: If I expend my psionic focus for, for examle, psionic weapon in one round, do I have to concentrate (full-round-action) in the next round to get my psionic focus back again? Or is it refreshed automatically? Thanks If you want it back, you will have to concentrate as a full round action that provokes an AoO to get it back. If you have the Psionic Meditation feat, you can reduce that to a move action that draws an AoO. -Jindl
Einzelgaenger 12-15-04, 06:04 PM	thought i'd ask before i do it, but i've seen it done before. mind if i switch a couple feats on derthark? i've found that a different combination has much more potential, and would like to switch it, and thought i'd make sure it was alright first. EDIT: nm, i'd prefer to be able to use a bow than to have a shield anyway
T'Var 12-15-04, 06:18 PM	thought i'd ask before i do it, but i've seen it done before. mind if i switch a couple feats on derthark? i've found that a different combination has much more potential, and would like to switch it, and thought i'd make sure it was alright first. I dont think there is a problem as long as you have not used those feats in a previous fight, basicly you use it you bought it kind of feature, that way we dont have people modding there charectors after every fight win or loss to give themselfs an advantage in there next fight thought i might be wrong, those are my feeling on the matter
Kaigan 12-15-04, 09:42 PM	Wow, it's really sad, that Tard is the only third level character active
Snommelp 12-15-04, 10:00 PM	Any particular reason Tara's fighting Khalil again, or was it just the luck of the dice?
Pitlords 12-15-04, 10:17 PM	Any particular reason Tara's fighting Khalil again, or was it just the luck of the dice? Pure luck of the dice, but you're right, immediate rematches should be avoided if possible. The level 4 pairings have been modifed: Level 4 Luken the Renegade (Huan) vs Khalil Odar (KerlanRayne): Pittbull Cliché Ferech (Sindorin) vs Tara Brightblade (Snommelp): Battousai2005 Please post fight concerns like this in the Comments/Concerns thread in the future. Thanks!
Snommelp 12-16-04, 12:28 AM	My apologies, in the future I will do so.
Pittbull 12-16-04, 03:36 AM	Wow, it's really sad, that Tard is the only third level character active If you wait a little bit, until Scaryfroman made the result of our last fight official, I or Einzelgaenger will join you with an active character in ECL 3.
Caterane 12-16-04, 09:40 AM	@ALL: I want to ask all of you to follow the link below and read the new reformation suggestions for the Core Coliseum Core Coliseum - Living Gladius Edition (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=352282)
Jindl 12-16-04, 03:54 PM	Character creation, set up, and discussion for the new CoCo Adventure - Worlds Largest Dungeon (WLD) has been completed, and the campaign has begun. Please see the CoCo Adventure - WLD - Chapter 1 thread to follow the heroic party as the try to conquer this massive undertaking. -Jindl
LLMadCow 12-17-04, 03:27 PM	@All - I will be posting my fight from last week on Saturday. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I had not internet connection between Last saturday night and last night. I am back online and ready to go.
Pittbull 12-20-04, 04:05 AM	Planing my next build: I allready asked before and Jindl told me that it was discribed in an official adventure. Another tricky question: What happens, if a medium half-dragon uses the expansion-power? Grows the enlarged, "large" half-dragon wings? So, does he get a fly-speed, which is double his landspeed? Thanks! According to a WoTC module (The Lord of the Iron Fortress) he does gain wings. There's a half-dragon duergar in there that uses expansion on himself, gaining wings in the process. It's a really great module, btw -Jindl It's also possible to use enlarge person on an orc who has the halfdragontemplate? He is still a humanoid target too, isn't he?
Jindl 12-20-04, 12:03 PM	It's also possible to use enlarge person on an orc who has the halfdragontemplate? He is still a humanoid target too, isn't he? Nope. The Half-Dragon template grants the Dragon type, so he isn't a humanoid target. It would work with the Expansion power, though. -Jindl
Pittbull 12-21-04, 08:57 AM	@Ayatoshi: Impact is realy the most terrible font to read!
Einzelgaenger 12-21-04, 07:20 PM	The not very epic but very long lasting fight between Hagrid and I may be over. I haven't found any issues with the fight this time, have you Pittbull?
Pittbull 12-22-04, 02:37 AM	The not very epic but very long lasting fight between Hagrid and I may be over. I haven't found any issues with the fight this time, have you Pittbull? Only one: against an invisible attacker, Hagrid AC is 14 not 16 as written in round 34 and, unless he isn't pinned, in rounds 35 and 36 his AC is 18. But this does not change the result of the fight. All in all I'm glad that it's finally over! :) EDIT: @LLMADCOW: what's up! Never have I fought against one of your character, but here is the first challange: Hagrid challanges Tormud Bahr'ahk!
Einzelgaenger 12-22-04, 04:07 AM	Only one: against an invisible attacker, Hagrid AC is 14 not 16 as written in round 34 and, unless he isn't pinned, in rounds 35 and 36 his AC is 18. But this does not change the result of the fight. All in all I'm glad that it's finally over! :) EDIT: @LLMADCOW: what's up! Never have I fought against one of your character, but here is the first challange: Hagrid challanges Tormud Bahr'ahk! yes. kinda funny, i'm more relieved it's over than that i won. as i said, the not so epic yet epicly drawn out battle @supreme pitlords: please switch Derthark and Hagrid. also, a question, if you have an animated tower shield, do you take the -2 to hit from it?
Jindl 12-22-04, 09:09 AM	also, a question, if you have an animated tower shield, do you take the -2 to hit from it? Yes. You suffer all penalties as if you were wielding the shield (including the acp to all rolls if you are non-proficient, and the max dex of +2 for a tower shield.) -Jindl
LLMadCow 12-22-04, 10:47 AM	@LLMADCOW: what's up! Never have I fought against one of your character, but here is the first challange: Hagrid challanges Tormud Bahr'ahk! I must apologize. I have had to list Tormud as Not Ready. As I was working on where I wanted to go with the build, it occurred to me that it was too much like Ban'zanifal. So, I am re-tooling where I am going. If I have a chance to work it out today, the challenge is fine. I am contemplating going Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 6 / Eldritch Knight 10. Any ideas guys?
Sindorin 12-22-04, 11:48 AM	I will soon be out of town and away from a stable internet connection until the next pairings are made, so I will definitely NOT be able to pitlord a fight this weekend. I will send a PM to Pitlords so to avoid any mishaps.
Snommelp 12-22-04, 03:15 PM	Just a general FYI: Cremator challenged Tara Brightblade, and Tara has accepted the challenge.
Caterane 12-22-04, 03:27 PM	Just a general FYI: Cremator challenged Tara Brightblade, and Tara has accepted the challenge. Such information goes into the headline of your character sheet (as well as in Tara's)
Snommelp 12-22-04, 03:48 PM	Actually, Tara's my character, not Cremator, and the info is in both headlines. I just wanted to get the news out to make sure it wasn't accidentally missed.
Pittbull 12-23-04, 06:54 AM	Just brainstorming: I know we dicussed it before, but perhaps it works with this way. For example: Have an direbat in early levels due to handle aminal. In level 6 take leadership, get a druid who casts awaken on the direbat, who gets a mind and counts now as cohort, who gets class-level like a unicorn (see real monster-manuel, SRD). If it works my new build Boraxx is looking forward to it! :)
T'Var 12-23-04, 07:48 AM	Just brainstorming: I know we dicussed it before, but perhaps it works with this way. For example: Have an direbat in early levels due to handle aminal. In level 6 take leadership, get a druid who casts awaken on the direbat, who gets a mind and counts now as cohort, who gets class-level like a unicorn (see real monster-manuel, SRD). If it works my new build Boraxx is looking forward to it! :) well as Jindl has noted eariler, when you awaken an animal it does not gain an LA. and without those they are unfit to be PC usable
Pittbull 12-23-04, 08:12 AM	well as Jindl has noted eariler, when you awaken an animal it does not gain an LA. and without those they are unfit to be PC usable But if an mount has level-adjustment, it gets class-levels being a cohort due to its masters leadershipscore? Remember, a unicorn can get class-levels!
Ashenai 12-23-04, 08:34 AM	All creatures with level adjustments can get class levels, and they're all eligible for being Leadership cohorts.
Pittbull 12-23-04, 09:34 AM	OK, then my next idea for cohorts: (1) a phrenic direbat (ECL6) or (2) a halfdragon-lightwarhorse (ECL6)---> has a flyspeed of 120 feet(avarage), plus breathweapon, plus ability to get class-levels, my absolutely favourite! Does it work, what do you think?
Ashenai 12-23-04, 11:40 AM	Hmmm. Neither Dire Bats nor Warhorses have level adjustments (a level adjutment of "-" is very different form a level adjustment of +0), so I'm afraid they can't currently be Leadership cohorts (whether templated or not). We have been thinking about carefully allowing non-standard races with no LA to be cohorts, but this is still very much drawing-board stuff. Keep tuned, and as always, do share your ideas. :)
Pittbull 12-23-04, 11:42 AM	Hmmm. Neither Dire Bats nor Warhorses have level adjustments (a level adjutment of "-" is very different form a level adjustment of +0), so I'm afraid they can't currently be Leadership cohorts (whether templated or not). We have been thinking about carefully allowing non-standard races with no LA to be cohorts, but this is still very much drawing-board stuff. Keep tuned, and as always, do share your ideas. :) Sorry, this I do not understand, if get the template with LA, you don't get the LA and it be a cohort? Ok lets put it together: Horse:-- and Halfdragon:+3----> Halfdragon-horse(type:dragon, int:4):LA+3 Where is my mistake? (whether templated or not). I think, this is exatly the point. I believe it does matter, if templated or not.
T'Var 12-23-04, 11:56 AM	the bace creature must have an LA for it to ever be considered levelable just because a wolf can advance into a higher HD wolf, doesnt mean it gets to take a level of fighter. no matter if its a wolf, dire wolf, half dragon wolf, or celestial wolf personally i dont like this ruling either, but unless they come out with an errata thats the way it works
Ashenai 12-23-04, 12:24 PM	Sorry, this I do not understand, if get the template with LA, you don't get the LA and it be a cohort? Ok lets put it together: Horse:-- and Halfdragon:+3----> Halfdragon-horse(type:dragon, int:4):LA+3 Where is my mistake? Your mistake is that you've added +3 to "-". "-" does not mean a Level Adjustment of 0, it means that creature does not have a level adjustment.
Pittbull 12-23-04, 02:58 PM	Oh, thank you for making this clear! I always thought, it is not added but replaced in this special case, because you make an intellegent being out of an animal. But that rises another question: if there is no increase of the level-adjustment but only an increase of the challenge-rating, is it possible to have such a templated animal via handle animal, or not. This is still a little bit confusing for me, because it's intellegent. But there must be any logic way to get such a cool mount.
T'Var 12-23-04, 03:05 PM	Oh, thank you for making this clear! I always thought, it is not added but replaced in this special case, because you make an intellegent being out of an animal. But that rises another question: if there is no increase of the level-adjustment but only an increase of the challenge-rating, is it possible to have such a templated animal via handle animal, or not. This is still a little bit confusing for me, because it's intellegent. But there must be any logic way to get such a cool mount. since it would turn into a subtype of some sort you would have to have a high enough handle animal, fight it in a monster combat. defeat it, then you could use it as an ally Edit: Actually i think i take that back, if its intel is raised above 2 it is nolonger an animal or magical beast, so it couldnt not be controled with handle animal
Battousai2005 12-23-04, 04:00 PM	since it would turn into a subtype of some sort you would have to have a high enough handle animal, fight it in a monster combat. defeat it, then you could use it as an ally Edit: Actually i think i take that back, if its intel is raised above 2 it is nolonger an animal or magical beast, so it couldnt not be controled with handle animal It might be nice if we could do a diplomacy check instead. Dang. Cat, add that bit to the living Gladius. Diplomacy is a dead skill in the arena. EDIT: Quick question in respect to mithral. It says that it reduces ACP by 3. Does that include the Masterwork quality reduction or no?
Einzelgaenger 12-24-04, 05:03 AM	It might be nice if we could do a diplomacy check instead. Dang. Cat, add that bit to the living Gladius. Diplomacy is a dead skill in the arena. EDIT: Quick question in respect to mithral. It says that it reduces ACP by 3. Does that include the Masterwork quality reduction or no? that does include the MW reduction, try comparing mithral chainmail and normal chainmail, and you'll have your answer.
MadCowTemplate 12-24-04, 03:04 PM	Well, I have sent Loerelei's tactics. My apologies to Pittbull whose Thursday tactics request I did not notice until today. Her tactics are annoying at best, and I don't really expect to win. Again. But that's okay, because I finally added to her RPG post, and I am still entertained by that story, although I regret not keeping up with it continually. For those interested. If you're not familiar with my first character in the arena, you may want to look her up as well. Fans of Final Fantasy 6 may find it amusing as well. Lorelei's Gladius Diary Lora's RPG post is right under Lorelei's.
Pitlords 12-25-04, 12:23 PM	Sin has entered the List of the Unstoppable Ones! Congratulations Kemal!
Snommelp 12-25-04, 05:32 PM	Twice now I have come across characters who mistakenly used the 1700 gp winner's purse as their starting fund. I believe that perhaps they are being misled by the General Rules post on the Gladiators and FAQ thread. Could the rewards section perhaps be relabeled so that it is more obvious that the amounts listed are the reward for winning at that level?
Caterane 12-26-04, 04:36 AM	The whole FAQ must be rewritten. However, since Living Gladius is not far away we have to write a completely new FAQ anyway.
Jindl 12-26-04, 06:31 PM	The whole FAQ must be rewritten. However, since Living Gladius is not far away we have to write a completely new FAQ anyway. Just so you know, this is the main reason that I have not updated the current FAQ with the suggestions on the FAQ Update Suggestions thread. The other reason being that I'm lazy ;) -Jindl
Caterane 12-26-04, 06:42 PM	Just so you know, this is the main reason that I have not updated the current FAQ with the suggestions on the FAQ Update Suggestions thread. The other reason being that I'm lazy ;) -Jindl We know that Jindl. The former reason aswell LOL j/k :D
scaryfroman 12-26-04, 08:37 PM	I have been trying to figure out a kind of mount for my losing Ragnarr. I realized that the classic dwarven mount would be perfect. The CoCo rules for HA and similar things are rather complicated, and I would appreciate some help with this. So, how exactly would I go about aquiring a Rhinocerous?
Caterane 12-26-04, 08:43 PM	I have been trying to figure out a kind of mount for my losing Ragnarr. I realized that the classic dwarven mount would be perfect. The CoCo rules for HA and similar things are rather complicated, and I would appreciate some help with this. So, how exactly would I go about aquiring a Rhinocerous? Look at the Monster Section of the World thread (Chapter 9, I think). There you will find a list of all monsters that can be aquired with the Handle animal skill, along with the necessary Skill modifier. If your Handle animal skill is sufficient for a Rhino, you request a monster fight against a Rhinocerous and if you win, it is yours. You can even kill it. (In Living Gladius however, you won't get it if you kill it in a monster fight but that's future talk)
Snommelp 12-26-04, 08:47 PM	If your Handle animal skill is sufficient for a Rhino, you request a monster fight against a Rhinocerous and if you win, it is yours. You can even kill it. (In Living Gladius however, you won't get it if you kill it in a monster fight but that's future talk) Find it, fight it, catch it, train it. Like Pokemon, except it'll die instead of fainting and you don't put it into a magical little ball.
scaryfroman 12-26-04, 08:55 PM	So, once I get my +13HA, then I fight one in a monster fight, and it's mine? Simple enough. so, I pour all my ranks into it, and I can get one at *does math* Level 16. At that point I'll have wings, so it is pretty useless. Hmm. at my current record of 2 of 9, then perhaps I can get one in 2006. Hurrah! I find it rather stupid that dragons have 6+int ranks/level, but DgDs only have 2+int. EDIT: Looking over the sheet, i realized i had done a really bad job on my skills, and several ranks had fallen through the cracks. I fixed it, and I am a lot closer to that mount.
MadCowTemplate 12-27-04, 02:17 AM	@ Pitlords: Rules? This was longer, but stupid computer made me re-type. Not debating Lorelei's loss, that was no surprise, but are the rules for "improved cover" (PHB, p. 152, Varying Degrees of Cover) and "sniping" (PHB, p.76, Hide) still being used. I notice Lorelei did neither of these things all though I mentioned both in my tactics for her fight with Cliche. Also, are sling bullets "used" like arrows, or can they ALL be picked up after fight?
Dalton Onestone 12-27-04, 02:54 AM	If your Handle animal skill is sufficient for a Rhino, you request a monster fight against a Rhinocerous and if you win, it is yours. You can even kill it. (In Living Gladius however, you won't get it if you kill it in a monster fight but that's future talk) How then CAN you get an animal ally in Living Gladius, if at all?
KerlanRayne 12-27-04, 02:56 AM	Also, are sling bullets "used" like arrows, or can they ALL be picked up after fight?Ammunition: Projectile weapons use ammunition: arrows (for bows), bolts (for crossbows), or sling bullets (for slings). When using a bow, a character can draw ammunition as a free action; crossbows and slings require an action for reloading. Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while normal ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.KerlanRayne
Pittbull 12-27-04, 03:12 AM	@ Pitlords: Rules? This was longer, but stupid computer made me re-type. Not debating Lorelei's loss, that was no surprise, but are the rules for "improved cover" (PHB, p. 152, Varying Degrees of Cover) and "sniping" (PHB, p.76, Hide) still being used. I notice Lorelei did neither of these things all though I mentioned both in my tactics for her fight with Cliche. Regarding sniping, I made a mistake, but I fix it now. Improving cover has not been necessary.
Caterane 12-27-04, 06:18 AM	@ Pitlords: Rules? This was longer, but stupid computer made me re-type. Not debating Lorelei's loss, that was no surprise, but are the rules for "improved cover" (PHB, p. 152, Varying Degrees of Cover) and "sniping" (PHB, p.76, Hide) still being used. I notice Lorelei did neither of these things all though I mentioned both in my tactics for her fight with Cliche. Also, are sling bullets "used" like arrows, or can they ALL be picked up after fight? Sniping is perfectly ok. You must be hidden, then you make a ranged attack (must be more than 10ft away from target) as a standard action, then you rehide as a move action with -20 on your hide check opposed by the targets spot check. Improved cover is one of our hot topics which still hasn't found a proper solution. As it is now, it is up to the pitlord to decide, depending on the relative degree of cover, Angosh standing behind a rock won't get improved cover, but tiny Bilo would. The angle towards the opponoment play an important role aswell. Bullets are destroyed if they hit, and have a 50% chance to be destroyed if they miss - just like arrows (PHB,p115) How then CAN you get an animal ally in Living Gladius, if at all? This belongs to the Living Gladius thread. Check there for a response.
MysticMonk2005 12-27-04, 11:51 PM	Magister2005 wishes me to inform you that he is having internet trouble, and can't do the fight and requests zero fights next week.
Jindl 12-28-04, 09:43 PM	Magister2005 wishes me to inform you that he is having internet trouble, and can't do the fight and requests zero fights next week. I think you meant Battousai2005...
Poe The Great 12-28-04, 10:34 PM	I posted a character on the Gladiators & FAQ thing and Magister2005 told me to post here about, so I did. Where I can I find info such as who else is in my league, and when/where will I find my match ups?
Sindorin 12-29-04, 01:02 AM	Well then, it seems that I am up to my old tricks again... a question that may sound rather silly I pose to thee, my brothers: Tair Malek's cohort is a Dromite, a small character. Tair is medium. Would The Whipping Boy be allowed to use Tair as a mount? I don't see where it would interfere at all with anything, Tair isn't carrying much and TWB is so darn light, it would work swimmingly. Any thoughts? I wonder what the rules regarding a wizard saddle would be... hmm...
LLMadCow 12-29-04, 01:03 AM	I posted a character on the Gladiators & FAQ thing and Magister2005 told me to post here about, so I did. Where I can I find info such as who else is in my league, and when/where will I find my match ups? Welcome Poe The Great! Please be sure to check out the Gladiators and FAQ thread, which is Stickied in the CoCo. it has answers to many of the questions that I am sure you have. Be sure to send a PM to Pitlords and let them know that you have a new character, that way they can list it with tomorrow's pairings. Also, be sure to make the subject of your post read: Ready December 29, 2004. Feel free to PM me with any specific questions.
Dalton Onestone 12-30-04, 04:44 AM	By the way -- I once found the thread title "Fight of the Week" confusing, and on behalf of other newbies suggest it be changed to a more accurate "Fights of the Week".
Snommelp 12-30-04, 01:46 PM	Ayatoshi made me realize something that needs reviewing: From the pairings post:Spells: ALL spells must be prememorized on the character sheet. Any slot not reveiled is considered used for that fight. From the general rules post:Prepared spells: Prepared spellcasters must list half of their prepared spells (rounded down) on their character sheets prior to pairings. These prepared spells may not be changed after pairings. As you can see, there is a problem here for prepared spellcasters. I realize that, because of the impending LG debut, this is likely to not get fixed, but at the very least could we make sure to keep things like this from happening in LG?
Jindl 12-30-04, 02:59 PM	The information on the pairings post is an announcement of changes to the general rules. The old rule was for 1/2 the spells, the announcement changes that to full premem. As for the FAQ not being updated, I already told you I was lazy :D (and it has to be completely rewritten for LG). -Jindl
kedi 12-31-04, 06:34 PM	.oO(I have to get up with an original character idea... nearly impossible... I have to get many things, an idea, some coffee, some sleep, some life... crap the life, I can get it later but a new character... non-rogueish for sure this time.... Gah I guess I'll post here tomorrow and see what happens... .. . <_<;,, >_>;,, I've already posted... drat) *hides in shadows before Cat sees until dawn*
Battousai2005 12-31-04, 10:27 PM	Yay! My computer works! No more AIM over my phone!!! I think you meant Battousai2005... ... Mystic, I know where you live. No court alive would convict me.
Caterane 01-01-05, 01:05 PM	A new picture has been added to the World Thread. Who? Check it out (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=278068). Spoiler: It's still not Jindl :( @Kedi: Hi Kedi, good to see you back. You might want to read the new Reformation Thread before you post a character.
SnarkHunter 01-01-05, 09:37 PM	We are in fact starting LG this week then? I'd like to know before I revert 2 or 3 characters, refigure their gold and what have you. Also, 2nd level or 3rd? I recall this as something discussed but not how it was decided.
Ashenai 01-01-05, 10:22 PM	The next pairings (January 5) will still be normal CoCo. And Living Gladius characters will start at level 3.
Naerdaloth 01-01-05, 11:44 PM	Hello everyone I would like to start participating in the CoCo, however I just have one question (no doubt to expand into many more in time)... is drow available without credits from pitlording? edit: and here comes that second question already. Is Living Gladius separated from just the regular coliseum or has it become the standard? I'd prefer starting in the plain simple coliseum..
Ashenai 01-01-05, 11:59 PM	Hello everyone Hello and welcome! I would like to start participating in the CoCo, however I just have one question (no doubt to expand into many more in time)... is drow available without credits from pitlording? It will be, in Living Gladius. edit: and here comes that second question already. Is Living Gladius separated from just the regular coliseum or has it become the standard? I'd prefer starting in the plain simple coliseum.. Living Gladius will become the standard in about a week... may I ask why you'd have preferred to start in the original? Living Gladius shouldn't be any more complicated, unless you want it to be...
Naerdaloth 01-02-05, 12:25 AM	I suppose it was the initial shock of seeing an additional.. um... feet of new rules and options. After looking at the LG thread closer I'm still a little confused but the potential aspects of it do outweigh the simple Coliseum, I see. Thanks for the help, I should have a character sorted out sometime within that week, I believe. :)
kedi 01-02-05, 12:45 PM	@Kedi: Hi Kedi, good to see you back. You might want to read the new Reformation Thread before you post a character. *clickee to the reformation thread*
Naerdaloth 01-02-05, 04:26 PM	I have a question.. do PrCs count towards multiclass penalties?
Snommelp 01-02-05, 05:09 PM	I have a question.. do PrCs count towards multiclass penalties? No. quoted from the SRD: Prestige classes offer a new form of multiclassing. Unlike the basic classes, characters must meet Requirements before they can take their first level of a prestige class. The rules for level advancement apply to this system, meaning the first step of advancement is always choosing a class. If a character does not meet the Requirements for a prestige class before that first step, that character cannot take the first level of that prestige class. Taking a prestige class does not incur the experience point penalties normally associated with multiclassing. So you can PrC to your heart's content.
LLMadCow 01-02-05, 06:35 PM	@All - Please check out LLMadCow's LG Project - Editing Room (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5149986#post5149986) and let me know what you think. I am looking for any errors that need to be fixed. Moving into LG, this list will be included for all of the playable classes and races that we use. All of the monster races are listed Alphabetically by ECL starting at ECL 3, since that is the new starting level. Format for the monster listings: ECL Name Level Adjust Hit Dice Starting Level Thanks guys!
Naerdaloth 01-02-05, 07:00 PM	Alright, after a full day of work and noodling concepts, ive finished my PC. :D (Seen here) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5158150&posted=1#post5158150) If I've missed anything, please let me know. :) And now to start working on that flavor info.
Snommelp 01-02-05, 07:05 PM	Quick question: drawing a weapon is a move action, but is drawing a scroll a move action as well? This will have a direct result on the fight I am currently running. EDIT: The scroll is in a scroll case, so I'm going to treat it as a sheathed weapon. I'll check back soon to see if anyone has contradicted this.
LLMadCow 01-02-05, 08:23 PM	Quick question: drawing a weapon is a move action, but is drawing a scroll a move action as well? This will have a direct result on the fight I am currently running. EDIT: The scroll is in a scroll case, so I'm going to treat it as a sheathed weapon. I'll check back soon to see if anyone has contradicted this. from the SRD Draw or Sheathe a Weapon Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item. If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one. Drawing ammunition for use with a ranged weapon (such as arrows, bolts, sling bullets, or shuriken) is a free action. And Paraphrased from the SRD Drawing a Scroll (aka Manipulate an Item): In most cases, moving or manipulating an item is a move action. This includes retrieving or putting away a stored item, picking up an item, moving a heavy object, and opening a door. So, there you have it. I would take this to mean that a scroll would be covered under manipulating an item, not drawing a weapon. Just my take on things.
Snommelp 01-02-05, 09:37 PM	But either way, it looks like it's a move action. So be it.
Ashenai 01-03-05, 10:53 AM	Quick note to all: I have a new email address (chaoslight (at) gmail.com). Please don't use my old address any more.
Jindl 01-03-05, 11:49 AM	But either way, it looks like it's a move action. So be it. The difference is that if it was weapon-like, then you could draw it while moving. But since it isn't weapon-like, you have to stand still in order to draw a scroll (unless you're mounted :D ). -Jindl
icingdeath44 01-03-05, 03:24 PM	I've been thinking about making a character and participating in this forum, and i was wondering a couple of things: How long are they and what do standard battle tactics look like? What happens if for some reason you van't get the time to do tactics for a specific battle? The character i was working on would have both the Spring attack and Up the Walls feat, what would the +'s be for attacking an opponent from their head height? also how far is Living Gladius from completion?
Pittbull 01-03-05, 03:42 PM	1)How long are they and what do standard battle tactics look like? 2)What happens if for some reason you van't get the time to do tactics for a specific battle? 3)The character i was working on would have both the Spring attack and Up the Walls feat, what would the +'s be for attacking an opponent from their head height? 4)also how far is Living Gladius from completion? 1) Just look to the fight-thread, there a lots of tactics. 2) Just fill in a default-tactic in your character-sheet. It'll be used, if you don't have the time to post a specific tactic. 3) We start at ECL2, so you can't have spring attack from the beginning, but you can take it later. If you attack from a higher level you get a +1 bonus. 4) Cat and Ash are working on it. They say, it'll be soon. You are very welcome, just post a build at the gladiators-thread. :)
Snommelp 01-03-05, 05:47 PM	The difference is that if it was weapon-like, then you could draw it while moving. But since it isn't weapon-like, you have to stand still in order to draw a scroll (unless you're mounted :D ). -Jindl Good to know. In this particular context, the character drew the scroll as a move action, cast the spell as a standard action, then took a 5-foot step. So everything works out, yes?
SnarkHunter 01-03-05, 06:29 PM	Looks by the book to me. And thats the way we like things round these parts.
Deimos Phenom 01-03-05, 09:17 PM	Hey everyone. I'm new to the Coliseum. I posted a character in the Gladiators thread, but it sounds like it's moving to a new system anyway. Where can I find the info on that?
Snommelp 01-03-05, 10:39 PM	Hi, Deimos! For info on the updated Coliseum, look to the Living Gladius thread. Your new character will be able to fight for one week, though. And if he wins, that will put him at level 3, which is the starting level for Living Gladius, so things will work out nicely.
Battousai2005 01-03-05, 10:43 PM	So, just out of curiosity, anyone at 12th level wanna activate and give Kage a fight this week? He's been there a while and is itching for a good battle.
Jindl 01-03-05, 11:07 PM	So, just out of curiosity, anyone at 12th level wanna activate and give Kage a fight this week? He's been there a while and is itching for a good battle. Anna would be more than happy to remind him of his own mortality...
Battousai2005 01-03-05, 11:15 PM	Anna would be more than happy to remind him of his own mortality... Huh. Never expected to actually get to a level that I could take on one of your characters, Jindl. Now if I could just get to one of Cat's... Anyway, sure. Ghost. Geez. Been a while since I fought a ghost. Bad memories. Stupid DM. Wouldn't even give me a +1 sword for the fight. I look foreward to seeing her on the battlefield! *Grumble* How do you kill something that's already dead?
Einzelgaenger 01-04-05, 02:55 AM	How do you kill something that's already dead? Like you kill anything else, with fire!
Sindorin 01-04-05, 07:53 AM	Remove it from the game. :) ensue the magic flaming :rolleyes:
Battousai2005 01-04-05, 09:48 AM	Remove it from the game. :) ensue the magic flaming :rolleyes: :heehee :rofl: :bounce: :rofl: :heehee OMG! Been a loooooooong time since I heard that phrase. Long live Magic: The Gathering! @Sindorin: :tiphat:
Deimos Phenom 01-04-05, 01:02 PM	Well, then! I'll just have to make sure he's ready to fight. Umm... I'm not sure if I'm missing anything though. I know I still need to list prices for my equipment but I'm still a little confused about the price for crafting magic items...
Jindl 01-04-05, 01:35 PM	Well, then! I'll just have to make sure he's ready to fight. Umm... I'm not sure if I'm missing anything though. I know I still need to list prices for my equipment but I'm still a little confused about the price for crafting magic items... Crafting magic items takes place in 2 steps: Step 1 - Acquire the nonmagical base item. Do this by either crafting (using crafting skills) or purchasing the item. For example, you'll need a masterwork greatsword before you can enchant it to be +1. So either craft the mw greatsword (can do so at a cost of 0.5 x market value if you have a +10 in Craft-Weapons) or buy it for 350 gp. Step 2 - Enchant the item. Do this by either paying to have it enchanted (using the DMG rules for enchanting weapons, armor, etc) or enchant it yourself (you must have the specific item creation feat and all relevant prereq's, cost is 0.7 x market value to enchant = 0.5 x market value + 5 gp per xp you would spend.) So either pay 2000 gp to have someone enchant the greatsword to be +1, or do it yourself for 1400 gp. Hope this helps. -Jindl
Naerdaloth 01-04-05, 07:50 PM	Hm upon reading that in LG players can have 2 chars I think I'd like to make a druid.. just one question Can druids cast animal growth on themselves while in wild shape? Also, in wild shape do druids take on just the Str and Dex scores of the new form, or Str Dex and Con?
Jindl 01-04-05, 08:24 PM	Hm upon reading that in LG players can have 2 chars I think I'd like to make a druid.. just one question Can druids cast animal growth on themselves while in wild shape? Also, in wild shape do druids take on just the Str and Dex scores of the new form, or Str Dex and Con? Yes to animal growth, but watch out for the no multiple magical effects that increase size rule. Basically you need to assume an animal form equal to or smaller than your normal size in order to be a valid target for animal growth. My druid preferred dienonychus form which was errata'd to be medium size. You get Str, Dex, and Con. -Jindl
Battousai2005 01-04-05, 08:58 PM	Ok, I'm thinking about a new character for LG, and I can't help but wonder: do we put our new ideas in the Gladiators thread or should we wait to see whether or not we are going to move to a new forum?
LLMadCow 01-04-05, 09:20 PM	Ok, I'm thinking about a new character for LG, and I can't help but wonder: do we put our new ideas in the Gladiators thread or should we wait to see whether or not we are going to move to a new forum? Batt - I am just building new PCs in the regular gladiators thread and I will transfer them over later. So, I say go for it.
Naerdaloth 01-04-05, 09:30 PM	Thanks, Jindl. Except I just realized one more thing... druids do not get knowledge (religion) as a class skill. I was planning on working into hierophant, except with 15 ranks of knowledge (religion) required this appears impossible. So, my question is, how come a class that has an ability exclusive to druids, cannot be attained by druids until 27 levels of cross-class ranks? Is there anyway to overcome this, like a feat that makes a skill a class skill?
Jindl 01-04-05, 09:38 PM	Thanks, Jindl. Except I just realized one more thing... druids do not get knowledge (religion) as a class skill. I was planning on working into hierophant, except with 15 ranks of knowledge (religion) required this appears impossible. So, my question is, how come a class that has an ability exclusive to druids, cannot be attained by druids until 27 levels of cross-class ranks? Is there anyway to overcome this, like a feat that makes a skill a class skill? No way to overcome it except to multiclass into a class with ks-religion as a class skill. I keep hoping that they will errata the requirement to be 15 ranks Knowledge (Religion) -OR- 15 ranks Knowledge (Nature), which is what it was back in 3e. -Jindl
Ashenai 01-04-05, 09:39 PM	Thanks, Jindl. Except I just realized one more thing... druids do not get knowledge (religion) as a class skill. I was planning on working into hierophant, except with 15 ranks of knowledge (religion) required this appears impossible. So, my question is, how come a class that has an ability exclusive to druids, cannot be attained by druids until 27 levels of cross-class ranks? Is there anyway to overcome this, like a feat that makes a skill a class skill? There are feats that make skills class sklls, but not in Core Rules. However, if you take a single level of a class that has Knowledge(religion) as a class skill, then the maximum value of that skill will always be level+3 from then on, and not (level+3)/2. Perhaps an example: Let's say your first level is Cleric. You put 4 skill points in Knowledge(religion). If you then take only Druid levels, you can put another two skill points into Knowledge(Religion) cross-class every level, and end up with a 15-rank Knowledge(religion) at level 12 (Cleric 1/Druid 11). That 15 ranks cost you 26 skill points, of course (4 cleric, 22 druid), but it's definitely doable.
Battousai2005 01-04-05, 09:40 PM	Thanks, Jindl. Except I just realized one more thing... druids do not get knowledge (religion) as a class skill. I was planning on working into hierophant, except with 15 ranks of knowledge (religion) required this appears impossible. So, my question is, how come a class that has an ability exclusive to druids, cannot be attained by druids until 27 levels of cross-class ranks? Is there anyway to overcome this, like a feat that makes a skill a class skill? Only way around this is to multi-class. There is a feat outside the Core books that would be possible. I can't remember the feat name though... Oh well, doesn't matter. Sorry, but thats about as good as I can think. EDIT: Dang. 2 Posts too late.
Naerdaloth 01-04-05, 09:46 PM	.oO(Hmm... good Fort and Will save boosts, ability to now use ALL divine scrolls, ability to turn undead, able to take hierophant, and access to new hierophant abilities all for 1 cleric level...) I'm sold. :) Yes, 1 level of cleric does sound appealing in that regard. . . costs 1 caster level but seems small price to pay. I'll just buy some extra scrolls to make up for it. >_> edit: Whoops, forgot about domains too. :cloud9:
Snommelp 01-04-05, 10:02 PM	.oO(Hmm... good Fort and Will save boosts, ability to now use ALL divine scrolls, ability to turn undead, able to take hierophant, and access to new hierophant abilities all for 1 cleric level...) I'm sold. :) Yes, 1 level of cleric does sound appealing in that regard. . . costs 1 caster level but seems small price to pay. I'll just buy some extra scrolls to make up for it. >_> edit: Whoops, forgot about domains too. :cloud9: You'll have to keep the spell lists seperate, though, so that you know which can be spontaneously changed to cure/inflict spells and which can be spontaneously changed to summoning spells.
Battousai2005 01-04-05, 10:07 PM	So, in celebration of LG, I decided I would leave my second slot open to suggestions. I myself have a fun little idea for a new combat build. A general note that I'm giving up my drider in light of the new cred requirements. So, any builds anyone would like to see but are crazy/strange enough they don't want to try themselves?
LLMadCow 01-04-05, 10:26 PM	So, in celebration of LG, I decided I would leave my second slot open to suggestions. I myself have a fun little idea for a new combat build. A general note that I'm giving up my drider in light of the new cred requirements. So, any builds anyone would like to see but are crazy/strange enough they don't want to try themselves? Well, I have always been interested in a Silver Dragon, but a Wyrmling costs 32 credits. If you are up for some credit expenditure, why not try a Brass Dragon Wyrmling? 4HD and LA+2. It has a d12 HD, +2 Con, BAB +4, Best Saves across the board, Fly 150' Average, the ability to burrow and if you pursue racial advancement, you gain Spellcasting as a sorcerer, always have good BAB, HD, Saves, ever increasing Natural Armor bonus, eventually Spell Resistance and a natural progression of attributes. What sounds like more fun?
Snommelp 01-04-05, 10:31 PM	I dunno, I think I'd rather see Batt do something really weird... like a Satyr barbarian or something.
Battousai2005 01-04-05, 10:36 PM	Well, I have always been interested in a Silver Dragon, but a Wyrmling costs 32 credits. If you are up for some credit expenditure, why not try a Brass Dragon Wyrmling? 4HD and LA+2. It has a d12 HD, +2 Con, BAB +4, Best Saves across the board, Fly 150' Average, the ability to burrow and if you pursue racial advancement, you gain Spellcasting as a sorcerer, always have good BAB, HD, Saves, ever increasing Natural Armor bonus, eventually Spell Resistance and a natural progression of attributes. What sounds like more fun? LL, you are many things, and brilliant is one of them. I think I rather like this somewhat crazy idea. I just need to wait a bit for everyone to get to level 6, but no reason I can't make it. Heck, I think I might even be able to afford it! (not the silver, mind you...)
Jindl 01-04-05, 10:59 PM	LL, you are many things, and brilliant is one of them. I think I rather like this somewhat crazy idea. I just need to wait a bit for everyone to get to level 6, but no reason I can't make it. Heck, I think I might even be able to afford it! (not the silver, mind you...) Before you do too much, give some thought to the problems with being a Brass Dragon Wyrmling. Problem #1 - You are a tiny creature without the ability to make any sort of ranged attacks. How exactly do you injure/kill your opponents? Problem #2 - Your base damage will always be dependent on your size, since you can't use weapons, and your size will never grow larger than medium (at 14th level, if you don't multiclass). So your base damage will never be more than 1d8 bite, 1d6 claws, and 1d4 wings. Compare this to what you expect to face from your enemies at ECL 14 and above. Problem #3 - You are vulnerable to cold, with no cost effective way to avoid it ... a fact which your enemies will be aware of and will exploit. I've looked at it several times, and I can't figure out how to get past problem #1, much less #2 and #3. I wish you luck if you can figure it out, but I've given up trying and focused on more effective races. If I were to suggest an ECL race to you, it would be the Skum. A Half-Dragon Skum 5/Barbarian 1 (ECL12) could easily have a Str score of more than 50. Thats +20 to your attacks and +30 to your damage with two handed weapons. Not to mention that you'll have a bite secondary attack that does 3d6+10 damage. Well, that should get you started... FYI: Str = 18 +8 Skum, +8 half-dragon, +8 size increase, +1 4th, +6 belt of giants str, +4 rage = Str 53. -Jindl
LLMadCow 01-04-05, 11:00 PM	I dunno, I think I'd rather see Batt do something really weird... like a Satyr barbarian or something. Oh yeah!?!? Why not go all out and play a Trumpet Archon. They cast as a 14th level Cleric, come with a free +4 Greatsword, Fly 90' good, Str+10, Dex+6, Con+12, Int+6, Wis+6, Cha+6 and the only cost 68 credits!!! LL, you are many things, and brilliant is one of them. I think I rather like this somewhat crazy idea. I just need to wait a bit for everyone to get to level 6, but no reason I can't make it. Heck, I think I might even be able to afford it! (not the silver, mind you...) I forgot to mention: Burrow 30', Immunity to Fire, and their breath weapon is either a line of Fire or a cone of sleep that affects ANY HD creature. Also, they usually start with Flyby Attack and Improved Initiative. I am glad you like the idea. It will be a bit of a challenge. Make sure you are ready for it. Your use of Magic Items will need to be very strategic, but it is doable. You will only start with 13,000. I would get some clarification on what Item Slots a dragon has. Be sure to get some Greater Magic Fang cast at one point or another. Improved Natural Attack and Multi-Attack will be nice too. The cost of 12 Credits is the same as what it would have been before, so no loss there. On another note, if you are looking to take advantage of the second available character slot starting from the get go, I might recommend an Aasimar Psychic Warrior or Paladin or a Tiefling Rogue.
Battousai2005 01-04-05, 11:13 PM	Before you do too much, give some thought to the problems with being a Brass Dragon Wyrmling. Problem #1 - You are a tiny creature without the ability to make any sort of ranged attacks. How exactly do you injure/kill your opponents? Tiny creature? *Looks at MM* Oh, that. Hmmm... Oh, well. Jindl, you know me. I hate ranged combat anyway. Problem #2 - Your base damage will always be dependent on your size, since you can't use weapons, and your size will never grow larger than medium (at 14th level, if you don't multiclass). So your base damage will never be more than 1d8 bite, 1d6 claws, and 1d4 wings. Compare this to what you expect to face from your enemies at ECL 14 and above. Hmm, yes, but I get abilities in trade. Problem #3 - You are vulnerable to cold, with no cost effective way to avoid it ... a fact which your enemies will be aware of and will exploit. Well, they certainly do now! ;) Anyway, not sure if I'm going to do this particular dragon. I was actually thinking Bronze. No element vulnerabilities. Maybe copper...or black...*mumbles* I agree with LL on what I would be able to use use as far as Items go.
LLMadCow 01-04-05, 11:18 PM	If I were to suggest an ECL race to you, it would be the Skum. A Half-Dragon Skum 5/Barbarian 1 (ECL12) could easily have a Str score of more than 50. Thats +20 to your attacks and +30 to your damage with two handed weapons. Not to mention that you'll have a bite secondary attack that does 3d6+10 damage. Well, that should get you started... FYI: Str = 18 +8 Skum, +8 half-dragon, +8 size increase, +1 4th, +6 belt of giants str, +4 rage = Str 53. That's not too bad, but it's rough starting with about 16HP, Natural AC +6, and a speed of 20'. Ouch on mobility. There are always pluses and minuses to every situation, you just have to figure out how you are going to play them.
Jindl 01-04-05, 11:22 PM	That's not too bad, but it's rough starting with about 16HP, Natural AC +6, and a speed of 20'. Ouch on mobility. There are always pluses and minuses to every situation, you just have to figure out how you are going to play them. Since you would start at ECL 8, I'd suggest focusing on mounted archery, preferably on a flying mount. You won't become large sized until ECL 10, at which point you grow wings from the half-dragon template, and can now fly at speed 40. Half-dragon Skum do get a +2 racial to Dex, after all. And a mighty +10 composite bow can dish a lot of damage. Also thanks to half dragon, you would have 5d8 racial HD and 1d12 barbarian HD at ECL 12 ... with a +4 racial boost to Con (and +4 from rage) so its not like you'll be hurting that bad for hps. -Jindl
Battousai2005 01-04-05, 11:45 PM	Since you would start at ECL 8, I'd suggest focusing on mounted archery, preferably on a flying mount. You won't become large sized until ECL 10, at which point you grow wings from the half-dragon template, and can now fly at speed 40. Half-dragon Skum do get a +2 racial to Dex, after all. And a mighty +10 composite bow can dish a lot of damage. Also thanks to half dragon, you would have 5d8 racial HD and 1d12 barbarian HD at ECL 12 ... with a +4 racial boost to Con (and +4 from rage) so its not like you'll be hurting that bad for hps. -Jindl I guess my issue with that is the other character I'm making is a heavy Ranged based attacker (I'm going to attempt to make a better arcane archer than Kaigan) and I kinda like the cooky Dragon idea. I'm recalling now that dragons also have access to all kinds of feats to make up for their physical handicaps. they also have some methods of spellcasting and they have some rather...odd quirks. If I can't do dragon (i.e. can't resolve the issues), I was thinking Unbodied. Nothing screams "Strange!!!" (note three exclimation marks) like a giant floating brain! Coincidentally, did you know that in survays, nothing screams "Fantasy!" (One ! only this time) like a randomly placed apostrophe? Must think on that one...
Caterane 01-05-05, 01:36 AM	Ok, I'm thinking about a new character for LG, and I can't help but wonder: do we put our new ideas in the Gladiators thread or should we wait to see whether or not we are going to move to a new forum? We will create an entirely new gladiators thread for several reasons. First of all, we would like to keep the current one as backup (it will be copied into an invisible subboard). Then, we don't want to create confusion by mixing up CoCo and LG gladiators; especially newbies might get a wrong picture. And finally, LG requires a slightly different gladiators thread. I suggest to create your character on your computer at home, then copy/paste it into the new thread once it is up. Ash and I are working as fast as possible to type down all the LG stuff. Edit: ECL 3, 2700 start gold, 3000 XP Re: Dragons... Jindl, let them try the dragon. You once adviced me against playing a succubus but the build slumbers on my disk, and is IMO a very good one if played correctly. Perhaps Battousais has a nice idea on his own? We'll never know if he doesn't play one :) I'd say, make your dragon Bat. In the worst case, it is a fun character to play.
Piuro 01-05-05, 03:29 AM	To avoid confusion among all us Living Greyhawk player out here, Propose "LGL" as opposed to the already taken "LG"
Einzelgaenger 01-05-05, 04:18 AM	We will create an entirely new gladiators thread for several reasons. First of all, we would like to keep the current one as backup (it will be copied into an invisible subboard). Then, we don't want to create confusion by mixing up CoCo and LG gladiators; especially newbies might get a wrong picture. And finally, LG requires a slightly different gladiators thread. I suggest to create your character on your computer at home, then copy/paste it into the new thread once it is up. Ash and I are working as fast as possible to type down all the LG stuff. Edit: ECL 3, 2700 start gold, 3000 XP Does this mean that the CoCo and LG will remain seperate entities, and everyone starts back at level 3 with spiffy new characters?
Caterane 01-05-05, 04:28 AM	Does this mean that the CoCo and LG will remain seperate entities, and everyone starts back at level 3 with spiffy new characters? No, it will still be the CoCo. I think - to reflect the new changes - we will just rename it in "Core Coliseum - Living Gladius Edition". Spiffy is up to you but everyone must make a new character at lvl 3 and the old ones will be frozen. Once the first gladiators reach a new league, the players of the frozen (old) characters will be given the choice to either unfreeze and convert this gladiator to Living Gladius, or retire him (becomes an NPC with a position in the City of Gladius).
Jindl 01-05-05, 09:12 AM	Re: Dragons... Jindl, let them try the dragon. You once adviced me against playing a succubus but the build slumbers on my disk, and is IMO a very good one if played correctly. Perhaps Battousais has a nice idea on his own? We'll never know if he doesn't play one :) I'd say, make your dragon Bat. In the worst case, it is a fun character to play. @Battousai - As I said before, I wish you luck with your dragon. I was just pointing out the problems I saw with the build. Some players have invested credits in ECL races in the past, with disappointing results (remember Arti's troglodyte?). So I just wanted to give you some food for thought on the dragon build. If its a character you want to play, then by all means go for it :D @Cat - That succubus would make a H#ll of a blackguard (especially with divine might), should you ever bring it out. Although the credit cost is pretty high (its like 36 credits under LG rules.) As for my own LG characters - well I think I'll leave both Rhoar and Aku frozen at their levels until they unlock. Anna will be reborn in LG (probably by a side effect of the destruction of the Nimbus), and you'll get to meet her before she dies and becomes a ghost (again). And I am working on remaking Jindl of the High Forest. And for a third pc, I'm trying to decide between a paladin build, a cleric/divine might build, or a psion (Cassandra from Mag's Banewarren's game). -Jindl
Battousai2005 01-05-05, 09:47 AM	@Battousai - As I said before, I wish you luck with your dragon. I was just pointing out the problems I saw with the build. Some players have invested credits in ECL races in the past, with disappointing results (remember Arti's troglodyte?). So I just wanted to give you some food for thought on the dragon build. If its a character you want to play, then by all means go for it :D Yah. I need to think on the problems you gave me. The ranged attack I'm realizing won't be a problem since I travel at a nice fly speed already. There are no problems with element as long as I choose the right dragon. The damage worries me though... Hmmmmmm... @Cat - That succubus would make a H#ll of a blackguard (especially with divine might), should you ever bring it out. Although the credit cost is pretty high (its like 36 credits under LG rules.) And we all know that Cat is in horrible, desperate need of credits ;) As for my own LG characters - well I think I'll leave both Rhoar and Aku frozen at their levels until they unlock. Anna will be reborn in LG (probably by a side effect of the destruction of the Nimbus), and you'll get to meet her before she dies and becomes a ghost (again). And I am working on remaking Jindl of the High Forest. And for a third pc, I'm trying to decide between a paladin build, a cleric/divine might build, or a psion (Cassandra from Mag's Banewarren's game). -Jindl Ah, right. Which characters to keep. Kage will be sticking around, but others...I don't know. Truth is, he's my only really successful character. Speaking of which, Jindl, remind me to buy a ghost touch weapon. I might not ever fight Anna again, but I'm realizing now what a pain it would be to face a wizard with Etherialness.
Jindl 01-05-05, 09:50 AM	Speaking of which, Jindl, remind me to buy a ghost touch weapon. I might not ever fight Anna again, but I'm realizing now what a pain it would be to face a wizard with Etherialness. Buy a ghost touch weapon. :D
Caterane 01-05-05, 11:57 AM	@Cat - That succubus would make a H#ll of a blackguard (especially with divine might), should you ever bring it out. Although the credit cost is pretty high (its like 36 credits under LG rules.) Yes, Blackguard+Divine might, and 2 Wilder levels to get +15 to my touch AC. Let's hope someone reaches lvl 12 quickly :(
Pittbull 01-05-05, 12:24 PM	Yah. I need to think on the problems you gave me. The ranged attack I'm realizing won't be a problem since I travel at a nice fly speed already. There are no problems with element as long as I choose the right dragon. The damage worries me though... Hmmmmmm... Just give him acces to psionic-power-list and use powerstone of vigor with higher MLs. Playing a little bit with thoughts for Boraxx, my attention turned to lycantrophy. I think it's better to choose the afflicted version because of the lower LA, you can use the racial skill-points of the animal for control shape, if this is not enough, take the open mind-feat. DR isn't so important. Any other views? Getting into lycatrophy brought up one question, is it possible to choose other animals, which aren't mentioned in the SRD? - An afflicted Were-direbat might be pretty cool! It has ECL 7 (4racialHD+2LA+1CL)? But what would be the abillity-boni in an animal form or hybrid-form?- DIREBAT: (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersDitoDo.html#dire-bat) STR+4, DEX+10,CON+4? And now this most important question, is he able to fly and use his hands, for example shooting a bow, in the same time? Of course, there are no official-rules! Last but not least, my last question: It is not possible to cure an unwilling subject from lycantrophy? He always can autofail the saving-throw for remove curse?
Deimos Phenom 01-05-05, 01:17 PM	Yes, it's possible to cure an unwilling subject. Remove curse offers a saving throw, which the lycanthrope must succeed on. The ability score adjustments for a dire bat would be (*shudder*) Str+6, Dex+12, Con+6. Mommy.... And I have no idea what the hybrid form would allow when flying. Judging from the anatomy of bats, my personal ruling would be "No," since bats' wings are basically the same as their "arms."
Jindl 01-05-05, 01:18 PM	Playing a little bit with thoughts for Boraxx, my attention turned to lycantrophy. I think it's better to choose the afflicted version because of the lower LA, you can use the racial skill-points of the animal for control shape, if this is not enough, take the open mind-feat. DR isn't so important. Any other views? Keep in mind that your "class skills" for the animal HD are only the ones listed in the animal entry in the SRD. So Control Shape would be a cross-class skill. No, I think the extra DR and the ability to have full control of your shape-changing is worth the extra +1 LA. Getting into lycatrophy brought up one question, is it possible to choose other animals, which aren't mentioned in the SRD? - An afflicted Were-direbat might be pretty cool! It has ECL 7 (4racialHD+2LA+1CL)? But what would be the abillity-boni in an animal form or hybrid-form?- DIREBAT: (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersDitoDo.html#dire-bat) STR+4, DEX+10,CON+4? And now this most important question, is he able to fly and use his hands, for example shooting a bow, in the same time? Of course, there are no official-rules! Yes, you could select dire-bat. LLMadCow and I have discussed doing a were-dienonychus (made even better now that dienonychus is a medium sized creature ... you can keep your armor and equipment in hybrid form!) In hybrid form, a were-direbat would get a +6 str, +12 dex. Keep in mind that his hps wouldn't change when he shifts form and that the +6 con bonus only applies to his animal HD. Also, note that all lycanthropes get +2 wis, iron will as a bonus feat, and must take the animal's feats using all of their HD based feats for their animal HD and their first class level. For a were-direbat, that would make your starting feats: Lvl 1 - Alertness Lvl 3 - Stealthy Bonus: Iron Will You begin as a 5 Hd creature, so when you gain your next level you could actually pick a feat. Note also that you would gain the direbat's blindsense 40' ability in all forms and its racial skill bonuses. I don't think you could wield a weapon while flying though, since bats use their "hands" to fly (the wings are formed from the webbing between the fingerbones and the ribcage).
T'Var 01-05-05, 01:21 PM	Yes, it's possible to cure an unwilling subject. Remove curse offers a saving throw, which the lycanthrope must succeed on. thats wrong actually the saving throw is to be cured from the curse not to keep it It is impossible to cure an unwilling subject because they can always choose to fail the save
Deimos Phenom 01-05-05, 01:33 PM	Ah. I thought it was saving throw to negate the spell. My bad. By the way, how do you get a fight? My character is ready but I have no challenges...
Pittbull 01-05-05, 01:35 PM	Keep in mind that your "class skills" for the animal HD are only the ones listed in the animal entry in the SRD. So Control Shape would be a cross-class skill. But with getting the template, you get control-shape as a class-skill (like a racial-class-skill) to any class. The skill-points from the animal should be used as if multiclassed. Skills: A lycanthrope gains skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die of its animal form, as if it had multiclassed into the animal type. (Animal is never its first Hit Die, though, and it does not gain quadruple skill points for any animal Hit Die.) Any skill given in the animal’s description is a class skill for the lycanthrope’s animal levels. In any form, a lycanthrope also has any racial skill bonuses of the base creature and of the base animal, although conditional skill bonuses only apply in the associated form. In hybrid form, a were-direbat would get a +6 str, +4 dex. Keep in mind that his hps wouldn't change when he shifts form and that the +6 con bonus only applies to his animal HD. How do you calculate this? I don't think you could wield a weapon while flying though, since bats use their "hands" to fly (the wings are formed from the webbing between the fingerbones and the ribcage). True, I agree! Thanks to all for helping!
T'Var 01-05-05, 01:39 PM	Umm are you sure about that Jindl? it looks like you would gain the extra +con hp for every HD as long as you are in animal, or Hybrid form? Hit Dice and Hit Points: Same as the base creature plus those of the base animal. To calculate total hit points, apply Constitution modifiers according to the score the lycanthrope has in each form.
Pittbull 01-05-05, 01:40 PM	By the way, how do you get a fight? My character is ready but I have no challenges... You don't need any challange to fight. A readied character will be paired by the pitlords wednesday night. :)
Jindl 01-05-05, 01:55 PM	@Pittbull - Please note: I edited my above post to correct the Dex modifier to be +12. Regarding Control Shape, I wouldn't allow you to spend any of your animal HD skill points on Control Shape. The skill description says that any PC who is aware of his condition can attempt to learn the skill. You become aware of your condition either from divination magic, a really good heal check, or when you recover from the first uncontrolled change. At that point, you could spend skill points on Control Shape. The reason you can't use the animal HD skill points, is because these HD are added to you when you gain the template, that is, when you are infected with lycanthropy. Sense infection must occur before diagnosis, you should have already spent the animal HD skill points before the Control Shape skill becomes available to you as a class skill. @T'Var/Pittbull - It says "the score the lycanthrope has in each form." Therefore, any HD which represent the animal form would gain the boosted Con modifier. Any HD (such as class HD) which represent the humanoid form would not get the boosted Con modifier. You can verify this by looking at the example lycanthropes. They all follow this rule. -Jindl
Ashenai 01-05-05, 01:58 PM	You don't need any challange to fight. A readied character will be paired by the pitlords wednesday night. :) Yes indeed. In about 2 hours, to be exact. A quick glance at Deimos Phenom shows everything to be in order... so he will fight this week. Get ready. :)
Pittbull 01-05-05, 02:51 PM	@Pittbull - Please note: I edited my above post to correct the Dex modifier to be +12. Regarding Control Shape, I wouldn't allow you to spend any of your animal HD skill points on Control Shape. The skill description says that any PC who is aware of his condition can attempt to learn the skill. You become aware of your condition either from divination magic, a really good heal check, or when you recover from the first uncontrolled change. At that point, you could spend skill points on Control Shape. The reason you can't use the animal HD skill points, is because these HD are added to you when you gain the template, that is, when you are infected with lycanthropy. Sense infection must occur before diagnosis, you should have already spent the animal HD skill points before the Control Shape skill becomes available to you as a class skill. -Jindl There is another option to be aware of your condition exactly in the moment you are infected: I wanted to create a barbarian community, whose worthiest fighters undergo a special ritual. A ceremony were the infection takes place, by a bite of an elder and a volountary failed savingthrow.
Jindl 01-05-05, 03:01 PM	There is another option to be aware of your condition exactly in the moment you are infected: I wanted to create a barbarian community, whose worthiest fighters undergo a special ritual. A ceremony were the infection takes place, by a bite of an elder and a volountary failed savingthrow. Sounds interesting, but using a campaign story to work around one of the rules limitations might be a bit too much of a stretch for the CoCo. Also, I think that only a natural lycanthrope can inflict lycanthropy, so the "elder" in this case would have to be one who was born with lycanthropy. In other words, why is some of the tribe natural lycanthropes while others are normal humans? -Jindl
Pittbull 01-05-05, 03:24 PM	Sounds interesting, but using a campaign story to work around one of the rules limitations might be a bit too much of a stretch for the CoCo. Also, I think that only a natural lycanthrope can inflict lycanthropy, so the "elder" in this case would have to be one who was born with lycanthropy. In other words, why is some of the tribe natural lycanthropes while others are normal humans? -Jindl Since I need 9 more credits to add the template and it'll take very long until there is a high enough ECL-leage in LG, we have a lot of time to decide this. I allready told Cat, that I'm willing to write a whole backroundstory for the Boar-clan, who is living inthe Great Forest. With all the opportunities we have in LG it might be possible to get the sufficient campain-story. But nevertheless it's up to you, Elders and GMs, to give me the permission to make this build.
Deimos Phenom 01-05-05, 05:07 PM	Spam-tastic! Thanks Pittbull.
Battousai2005 01-05-05, 07:25 PM	Ok, question regarding dragons. I know that not all of their LAs are the same, but does that mean that if a dragon character were to advance in HD, his LA would change when it reached that as well? EX: A Young Black Dragon hits his 13th HD. Lets assume that his creator started him as young with a +3 LA. The Dragon now went up to a Juvinile Black Dragon, but now posesses a +4 LA. My question is, did the Dragon just advance the equivilant of 2 character levels? Also, do stat bonuses grow with the dragon, meaning that older dragons have higher stat bonuses than younger ones?
Piuro 01-06-05, 03:05 AM	No, it will still be the CoCo. I think - to reflect the new changes - we will just rename it in "Core Coliseum - Living Gladius Edition". Spiffy is up to you but everyone must make a new character at lvl 3 and the old ones will be frozen. Once the first gladiators reach a new league, the players of the frozen (old) characters will be given the choice to either unfreeze and convert this gladiator to Living Gladius, or retire him (becomes an NPC with a position in the City of Gladius). Right, LGE it is then.
Ashenai 01-06-05, 03:23 AM	Ok, question regarding dragons. I know that not all of their LAs are the same, but does that mean that if a dragon character were to advance in HD, his LA would change when it reached that as well? EX: A Young Black Dragon hits his 13th HD. Lets assume that his creator started him as young with a +3 LA. The Dragon now went up to a Juvinile Black Dragon, but now posesses a +4 LA. My question is, did the Dragon just advance the equivilant of 2 character levels? I'd say it would work exactly the same as an acquired template. Also, do stat bonuses grow with the dragon, meaning that older dragons have higher stat bonuses than younger ones? Sure.
T'Var 01-06-05, 10:16 AM	Reserved 2 (how many of these can we have? I thought Caterane said 2 chars were the max) You can have 2 free charectors, others are for once they retire, or if you plan to have more than the free charectors fighting at the same time
T'Var 01-06-05, 06:23 PM	Is there anyway to buy a tattoo that has had extra pp's used in its creation to make it agmented? i.e. buy a tattoo of viger that used 4pp to manifest so it gives the used 20hp?
Battousai2005 01-06-05, 07:24 PM	I'd say it would work exactly the same as an acquired template. Well, that does complicate things a bit. That means it's time to look at LAs all the way through for every dragon. *Sigh* You know, econ tells us about risk vs. Reward. I think it would be reward in itself to see a succesful dragon character of any variety. I just need a trick to make it work. *Begins evil plot to conquer Gladius* :plotting: :angel: :angelhide :dragon:
SnarkHunter 01-06-05, 08:23 PM	Is there anyway to buy a tattoo that has had extra pp's used in its creation to make it agmented? i.e. buy a tattoo of viger that used 4pp to manifest so it gives the used 20hp? Since there isn't anyway to heighten a power, and you can't augment tattoos I'm gonna say no.
cellardweller 01-06-05, 08:30 PM	I'm all done reserving, thanks for those holding out and deleting posts.
Battousai2005 01-06-05, 08:38 PM	I'm all done reserving, thanks for those holding out and deleting posts. So I can start reserving? Yay!
Naerdaloth 01-06-05, 09:49 PM	Finished next LG char ^^ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5180172&postcount=52) If anyone finds an error plz lmk. :d
Battousai2005 01-06-05, 09:52 PM	Everyone meet Lia (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5184449&postcount=99), the latest addition of arcane warriors. EDIT: Hey, I have character #2! Here he is, Keth (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5184482&postcount=102)
Naerdaloth 01-07-05, 02:48 PM	There are feats that make skills class sklls, but not in Core Rules. However, if you take a single level of a class that has Knowledge(religion) as a class skill, then the maximum value of that skill will always be level+3 from then on, and not (level+3)/2. Perhaps an example: Let's say your first level is Cleric. You put 4 skill points in Knowledge(religion). If you then take only Druid levels, you can put another two skill points into Knowledge(Religion) cross-class every level, and end up with a 15-rank Knowledge(religion) at level 12 (Cleric 1/Druid 11). That 15 ranks cost you 26 skill points, of course (4 cleric, 22 druid), but it's definitely doable. Just clarifying this thing about skills.. your saying that if my first level (which I've decided to make monk rather than cleric now for the feats..) So, if one of my classes had Knowledge (religion) as a class skill, the other classes, when put a level into, is able to dump a full CC rank in rather than the normal half rank for CC skills?
T'Var 01-07-05, 03:03 PM	Just clarifying this thing about skills.. your saying that if my first level (which I've decided to make monk rather than cleric now for the feats..) So, if one of my classes had Knowledge (religion) as a class skill, the other classes, when put a level into, is able to dump a full CC rank in rather than the normal half rank for CC skills? how it works is, if a class had knowledge religion as a class skill. at 2nd level, your max rank for Knowledge religion would be 5 ranks, however if the second class does not have it as a class skill, you would still need to pay for each half rank. that way at 3rd level your max rank is 6 in evey skill any of your classes has As a class skill. but you must pay there Normal class or CC cost for said ranks hope that makes since
icingdeath44 01-07-05, 05:24 PM	I just made my first LG character (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5189609&postcount=117) If you find any problems could you let me know. Thanks.
Jindl 01-07-05, 06:31 PM	@All - T'Var's new build for Gozer raises an interesting question. Do aging bonuses still accrue after the character becomes undead? I don't think they do, but I could see it going either way. What are the other Elder's opinions on this topic (its pertinent both the T'Var's build and to my recreation of Anna, Ghost of the Arena)? Of course, I'd like to hear from the non-Elder's as well :D -Jindl
Battousai2005 01-07-05, 06:50 PM	@All - T'Var's new build for Gozer raises an interesting question. Do aging bonuses still accrue after the character becomes undead? I don't think they do, but I could see it going either way. What are the other Elder's opinions on this topic (its pertinent both the T'Var's build and to my recreation of Anna, Ghost of the Arena)? Of course, I'd like to hear from the non-Elder's as well :D -Jindl Hmmm...every part of my mind wants to scream "NO!" at the top of my lungs, but I'll withhold judgement. (Before anyone harries me on the spelling, it can be spelled that way) Ok, my big issue with aging undead is it just doensn't make logical sense. But then, logic is rarely an issue. However, something else arises. Normally, characters have their scores rolled to see how long it will take before they die. This is right in with the aging score. Something tells me if a creature cannot die naturally, then it cannot age naturally either. After all, undead live far beyond what they naturally live. A human vampire may live for centuries, while a normal human dies after 80 years or so. And since Undead cannot be magically aged...
Caterane 01-07-05, 06:50 PM	Which other Elders? :rolleyes: From a logical point of view one could say that ghosts do not suffer from their penalties they had in life. One could also say these penalties carry over (like the ghost with the broken neck still has a broken neck in unlife; how many movies have we seen where this was the case). Since there are no official theories on ghosts, we can only guess so a common sense approach is pointless. The rules however don't say anything about losing age penalties/boni, and this seems to be the appropriate way. There are still dex differences between ghost and ghost so there are ghosts who are more dextrous than other ghosts. This shows us that being incorporal does not free you from being dependant on your own natural dexterity ...and an old grandpa isn't the best acrobat. PS: I've played adventures with century-old ghosts and they haven't had any age boni to their mental stats.
Beldin 01-07-05, 06:57 PM	Why should undead loose aging penalties/boni? I'd say they keep them.
Battousai2005 01-07-05, 07:16 PM	Note to all: I'm thinking about changing my name. I wouldn't mind except some OTHER graduate (*cough*Mystic*Cough) of the year 2005 stole my idea to put our graduating year at the end of our name (*Cough*Mystic*Cough*). Not to name names, or anything (*Cough!*Mystic*Cough*) I was just wondering if it would be possible to transfer my characters to another profile? I'll create one when I get the chance and let everyone know.
Snommelp 01-07-05, 07:42 PM	An undead character keeps the scores it had in life (plus or minus certain things for becoming undead), correct? If a ghost had a low intelligence score before it became a ghost, would the intelligence score still be low after death? If so, I don't see why aging bonuses and penalties would not still apply. Of course, a ghost wouldn't technically age after it died, so it couldn't get any more benefits from aging.
LLMadCow 01-07-05, 09:29 PM	Well, I have put some extensive thought into the topic of Aging and Ghosts. Here are some of the thoughts I have had and I post them in order to give some idea of where I got my direction.... Physical Aging - Aging is a fact of life. What we consider aging is the impact of time on the deterioration of our physical body. Science knows that the human body, as it regenerates, has a finite life span. It ties in with cell replication and the fact that each replication is in fact, imperfect. This leads to an expiration date for every creature. Some have a longer life than others. Mental Aging - Mentally speaking, everyone ages differently. Some lose their mental faculties to Alzheimer's Disease. Some stay as sharp as ever and improve upon what they have. Some old people drift away into ananymity while others grow rich with personality. Finally, some manage to learn from their mistaes while others manage to learn less and less, intent on breaking a repetitve cycle through sheer luck! D&D Aging - In D&D, Aging brings about two changes, like clockwork. The aging makes the physical properties decline (-1, -2, -3, all cumulative) and the mental faculties improve (+1, +1, +1, again, all cumulative). Do Undead (and thus, Ghosts) Age? My answer is two-fold; yes ... and no. Yes, I feel that any creature can gain benefit from growing older and thus, become smarter, wiser and more powerful in personality. On the other hand, I have to say that No, Ghosts do not suffer from physical penalties that go with aging: Excerpt quoted from MM page 317 Features: An undead creature has the following features. -Not subject to critical hits, non-leathal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects. So, although Ghosts can get older, they do not suffer from the physical aspect of aging. Solution for the arena? - The question is simple to answer. Since WotC has put some great effort into balancing the system as a whole, for better or for worse, and since they have already set the presidence that Undead do not suffer from physical ability damage, I would say that Ghosts cannot be allowed to gain the benefits or the penalties of aging in Living Gladius. I hope that all of this makes some amount of sense.
Jindl 01-07-05, 10:46 PM	I think that the aging bonuses and penalties are intended to be somewhat balanced. As a result, I do not have a problem with a ghost keeping whatever aging bonuses and penalties it had at the time of death. However, I do not think ghosts should be allowed to age after time of death. As LLMadCow explained, ghosts would not suffer ability score penalties for their physical stats from aging. Therefore, they should not gain bonuses to their mental stats for aging. Letting the ghost keep the aging modifiers at time of death is the way it should be. Just my 2 cps. @T'Var - As another future ghost player (and since it was your PC that helped spark this question), I hope you'll contribute your thoughts to this discussion :D -Jindl
MysticMonk2005 01-08-05, 01:51 AM	Note to all: I'm thinking about changing my name. I wouldn't mind except some OTHER graduate (*cough*Mystic*Cough) of the year 2005 stole my idea to put our graduating year at the end of our name (*Cough*Mystic*Cough*). Not to name names, or anything (*Cough!*Mystic*Cough*) I was just wondering if it would be possible to transfer my characters to another profile? I'll create one when I get the chance and let everyone know. 1. I can't help it that some one stole MY name(MysticMonk) 2. If anything its a compliment. 3. If you remember I changed my name. I think if you just PM pitlords and erase the old character posts, it should be ok.
Paranoia 01-08-05, 07:37 AM	Hi all ! I dont know if this is the right place to ask this question but i was wondering if i can use the spell entangle in the arena ? in the spell discription it sais that there need 2 be plants around and i cant imagine that there are any in the arena. cu max
Pitlords 01-08-05, 08:09 AM	The first 30 gladiators have been added to the roster. Please no challenges the first 2 weeks to make it easier and also more interesting. It's been a long time since I used the online roller more than once per league. Don't forget to write down your XP, and for spellcasters the total spell levels, aswell as the maximum available spell levels (1/3 total spell levels). For the first few weeks there will be no Quests available (or any of the other add-on's) so you can only fight in the arena. Please check the violations thread from time to time for you might find your character being mentioned there. I will add *violation* tags on tuesday so any character with a red violation will not be paired. Also, I'd like to ask you to volunteer to pitlord fights. With this amount of gladiators we need people to moderate them, else it won't work. Please, if anyhow possible, try to run as many fights as possible. @Paranoia: The arena ground is always considered to have the required terrain type, so you can meld into the ground (stone), cast entangle (meadow), or whatever else you need it for (sand, mud, etc). Perhaps in the future, we will have different arena maps so that such spells can be handled more realistically
Naerdaloth 01-08-05, 10:38 AM	Can Handle Animal be used to rear an animal companion, in a druid's case? Also, 1/3 spell levels available? Does that include all casters or only wizards? And, if all, what does it entail? edit: oh,another question about skills... if I understand correctly from before... if my first level is monk, and I put 2 cc ranks (4 skill points) in Handle Animal, and then my second level is druid, which has Handle Animal as class, my maximum ranks becomes level+3, so I would be able to put several points in Handle Animal from a druid level in order to boost it up to level+3?
Battousai2005 01-08-05, 12:16 PM	I managed to create a new account. I'll PM the pitlords, but I want to transfer my existing characters first. Oh, new name will be One_Winged_Angel, after my favorite villan, Sepiroth. I'll PM the pitlord account. @MysticMonk: 1. Here's an idea: Pick a different name. 2. Its identity theft. Its a crime. I think I'll sue. 3. Yes, I remember you changing your name. What was so wrong with the first one?
scaryfroman 01-08-05, 12:59 PM	Ouch. I just realized how the 1/3 rule balances things out... My psion only has 6pp now. Perhaps I will be a challenge for a fighter. Maybe my 4d10 Mind thrust plan was not the best idea in the world... Anywho, I would be ok with PLing more; you can change my number to max.
Snommelp 01-08-05, 03:12 PM	No challenging? But that means... I might come across someone who could beat me! NOOOOooooo..... ;) Understood. Challenge will be nullified. EDIT: How does rounding of spell levels work? Is it all rounded up, all rounded down, or rounded at .5?
Caterane 01-08-05, 04:00 PM	Always rounded up. If you have 10 Spell levels you may cast 4 (3.3 rounded up). Same for Spell-like abilities or items with x/day uses.
Snommelp 01-08-05, 04:51 PM	Always rounded up. If you have 10 Spell levels you may cast 4 (3.3 rounded up). Same for Spell-like abilities or items with x/day uses. Excellent... :plotting: everything is going according to my plans... Mwahahaha.....
One_Winged_Angel 01-08-05, 06:31 PM	I managed to create a new account. I'll PM the pitlords, but I want to transfer my existing characters first. Oh, new name will be One_Winged_Angel, after my favorite villan, Sepiroth. I'll PM the pitlord account. @MysticMonk: 1. Here's an idea: Pick a different name. 2. Its identity theft. Its a crime. I think I'll sue. 3. Yes, I remember you changing your name. What was so wrong with the first one? Battousai was weak. He failed in life. I am his incarnation of devine vengance. I am One_Winged_Angel! (Yay! No numbers!)
Pitlords 01-08-05, 06:42 PM	Battousai was weak. He failed in life. I am his incarnation of devine vengance. I am One_Winged_Angel! (Yay! No numbers!) Transfer complete. God I will miss your signature :rolleyes: So how do you want us to call you now? One_winged_angel? Batt? /|33\\3/?
One_Winged_Angel 01-08-05, 06:57 PM	Transfer complete. God I will miss your signature :rolleyes: So how do you want us to call you now? One_winged_angel? Batt? /|33\\3/? Oh, don't worry. I'll think of something new! :D I'm not sure what you guys should call me. Last time, you shortened it to batt. I'm sure you can all work something out. For now, I guess you can continue to refer to me as Batt. No problem there. Makes me fell like I'm gonna be swung at a ball though... EDIT: MysticMonk2005's Sig <::::::::::::::]==0-----0==[::::::::::::::> Sword-Chucks Yo! :raincloud :banghead: :bored: :nonono: :bored: :banghead: :raincloud
Caterane 01-08-05, 09:20 PM	The signature madness continues! Where Battousai failed to slow down the board, One Winged Angel's 10 lines/minute² signature growth rate will succeed :rolleyes: At least he doesn't post his character sheet into his signature LOL
Kaigan 01-08-05, 10:13 PM	Batt: all i have to say is LOL.
Dalton Onestone 01-08-05, 10:27 PM	@Paranoia: The arena ground is always considered to have the required terrain type, so you can meld into the ground (stone), cast entangle (meadow), or whatever else you need it for (sand, mud, etc). Perhaps in the future, we will have different arena maps so that such spells can be handled more realistically And also walk across it invisibly without kicking up any telltale dust. ::sigh::
Dalton Onestone 01-08-05, 10:29 PM	Suggestion, given the new rules for LG: Have an Actions of the Week thread. It would be used solely for players to declare the actions of their players, whether it's being ready for fighting, inactive, questing, crafting, rearing animals, whatever. This will make future auditing of characters a LOT easier. Rereading the entire Tavern thread to get that info is not fun ...
Dalton Onestone 01-08-05, 10:35 PM	How many different craft skills are: Weaponsmithing Bowmaking Arrowmaking (fletching)? Most DMs would say just one, although evidence to the contrary can be found in a place or two in the DMG, I think.
One_Winged_Angel 01-09-05, 01:07 AM	The signature madness continues! Where Battousai failed to slow down the board, One Winged Angel's 10 lines/minute² signature growth rate will succeed :rolleyes: At least he doesn't post his character sheet into his signature LOL I was thinking more 10 lines/sec^2 *(Can't do the superscript) Character sheets in signature...hmmm... Oh, come on, Cat. Its better than my last sig and you know it. Only 3 total lines and one is the add for Gladius. BTW, I'll have that picture to you as soon as I can hook up my digital camera. Technology is supposed to make our lives so much simpler. *Sigh*
Dalton Onestone 01-09-05, 01:10 AM	One very basic question: On the arena map, what's a column and what's a rock?
T'Var 01-09-05, 01:35 AM	Legend: w: wall O: arena floor @: column to the ceiling §: big rock A, B: starting positions
One_Winged_Angel 01-09-05, 01:38 AM	Hey everyone. As I'm looking at characters, I'm seeing something. @Elders (mostly): I think the 1/3 spell rule is a bit...well...much. Yes, I agree that casters are overpowered at high levels. But, I mean, look at how weak they now are at low levels? I know that most spellcasters don't use all their spells during one bout, but there is an issue that if its a matter of life or death, most casters would rather use the spell. The only reason I say most is because I've had some idiot people play casters before. I dunno. I was hoping for a system like Snark proposed. (I think it was Snark...) where there are something like 3 matches held per day. I normally would not bring this up, but I'm not the only one to complain about it. I've heard a lot, actually. I don't mean to offend those who decided on this, but the fact that sorcerers don't have enough spells to cast defeats their entire purpose. I get the feeling the response I'll get is something like "let it run the first few weeks." Fine. But if casters are getting thrashed beyond reason, please do me this favor and reconsider.
Sindorin 01-09-05, 02:01 AM	I don't think they'll get thrashed beyond reason as of yet. Then there is the fact that a majority of our gladiators posted thus far for LG ARE casters... The casters have the spell level advantage, IMO. A psion with an 18 int at level three would have 5 pp (using my own Exodar as an example). He can only use 1 level two power, whereas I have seen Wizards that are easily able to cast at least two level two spells, and I have yet to mess around with making my own wizard. Things will be decided when people figure out how to buy very high level attack spells or powers in scrolls/stones. The trick to that will be buying four of them, one for each fight at each level.
Dalton Onestone 01-09-05, 02:02 AM	Legend: w: wall O: arena floor @: column to the ceiling §: big rock A, B: starting positions Thanks. That was the obvious guess, but I couldn't find where it actually said so on the map legend. (And it should.)
One_Winged_Angel 01-09-05, 02:22 AM	Sindorin, I see two little problems with your argument. You are using Psions as an example. They get 1/3 their PP, which, IMHO, is quite different from spells. Here is what I mean. 1/3 PP: So, what we basically have is the following options: 5PP: I can cast Just about any spell I desire. No big. I can cast high level as I see fit, or lower levels with augment, or lower levels with no augment multiple times. 2 lv 0 spells, 1 lv 1 spell, 1 lev2 spell: Restricing depending on the spells I know. My issue is that I really like playing as sorcerers. The new rules makes it downright idiotic to play as one. I play them so I can cast spells more than wizards. With the new rules, this is maybe 1 more. With the huge limit in spell that one can learn, it is easier to just play a wizard. This is true to a lesser extent with bards. Before, each class had some advantage. Now, it just seems stupid. Oh, and before anyone jumps on my butt about playing a sorcerer character right now and being a pain about it, I'll let you know I am doing so because I wanted an elf without con penalties and needed the favored class. The second bit of your argument is you're assuming the psion uses an 18 intel. I don't know if I speak for everyone else, but I hate actually using an 18. It nearly cuts you points to use by half. One last argument. It makes multiclassing into a caster class plain painful. Low saves, low hp, no benifits in weapons and armor, and offering very, very little in return. I say that again because my archer has 1 level in Sorcerer. She can cast 1 level 1 spell and 1 level 0 spell. Whee. I can cast mage armor and ray of frost! That'll get me far! And on a whole, things don't look a whole lot better as I level. No matter how you look at it, unless I want to invest major points in my charisma (point I think anyone would agree are better spent in dexterity), the most spells I'm looking at in any level is 2. Even pure sorcerers don't fare a whole lot better. They might get it up to 3. Makes the trade somewhat off. Anyway, those are some points. Take some time and look it over. If no one listens, oh well. At least I spoke up.
Dalton Onestone 01-09-05, 03:03 AM	Re the point of nerfed magic users. When I raised that before, a fairly compelling counterargument was made: There are a lot of save-or-die arcane spells. Even low-level spells such as Sleep, Color Spray, Hideous Laughter are effectively save-or-die. So if a caster can get even one of those spells off, with a save probability of under 50%, he has a better than even chance of winning a bout.
Dalton Onestone 01-09-05, 03:06 AM	Several more rules questions. 1. A Satyr has 5 HD and 5 levels of Fey, but a LA of +2. So what's the ECL of a Satyr Fighter 1 -- 3 or 6? 2. Urggh the Barbarian is charging Tuck the Cleric. Tuck readies Hold Person for when Urggh is in range. Urggh fails his save. Which comes next -- Urggh getting his once-per-round retry on the save, or Tuck walking over and delivering a coup-de-grace? 3. Urggh was charging on horseback. He gets paralyzed. Where does he end up? Falling off the horse and lying on the ground in the square where he was when Hold Person hit? And what does his warhorse probably do?
Dalton Onestone 01-09-05, 03:08 AM	By the way guys -- as you can see from my rules questions, I shouldn't be pitlording. But if you need somebody to systematically check character sheets, I could probably do that (right, Cat?). Please let me know how I can efficiently help.
LLMadCow 01-09-05, 03:49 AM	Removed. Never mind.
MadCowTemplate 01-09-05, 03:54 AM	Hold person does say, "paralyzed." It also says that flying creatures fall, so it clearly does not prevent outside forces (such as gravity) from moving the victim. I imagine Urggh could easily be dragged if any companions where present. So, he would probably fall off the horse. Making a ride check to stay in the saddle would be an action, so he couldn't do that. It is possible that something else would have to happen to make him actually fall (like being attacked). I would say it should be the same as if he fell asleep while riding.
MadCowTemplate 01-09-05, 04:03 AM	I would like to discuss the concept of the action, "Prepare to throw splash weapon." I don't know if this has been talked about in a long time, but I would like to clarify it before I decide how to re-build my old character, Lora. As far as I can find, the phrase, "Prepare to throw splash weapon," appears in only one place in any book: Table 8-2: Actions in Combat on page 141 of the PHB (and on the exact same chart in the SRD). Nowhere else in any book (or the SRD) is this explained, defined, described, or even mentioned. Splash weapons are clearly described in their own right in several places in the PHB p128, 129, and 158 and the DMG p30. I believe that the action was listed on the chart for no reason and that there is in fact no such action. Call it a typo, a mistake, an un-finished idea, or some type-setter's idea of a joke. Call it whatever you want, but here are some things to consider about it. 1. What it says is, "Prepare to throw splash weapon." Literally, this would mean the character is preparing him/her self to perform an action. It has nothing to do with preparing the object in any way. If you consider it from this perspective, why is it that a character can throw any other object in the game without preparing to do so. It even says that throwing splash weapons requires no weapon preficiency. There is no preparation to be done. The other option is to assume that what it means is to prepare the item to be thrown. Let's look at that idea. 2. In what way could a splash weapon be prepared to be thrown? It is described repeatedly as a glass vial (usually) which breaks open on impact and simply spills out on the target. It does not need anything else done to it. Is the character supposed to score the vial with a glass-cutting tool to make it more fragile? 3. When does this preparation have to take place? Since it is not defined in any way, I propose that a character could prepare the item at home, before even entering battle. (Or for that matter prepare himself, if you prefer that interpretation.) "But how long does the item stay prepared?" You may ask. Well, the book just doesn't say does it. So I guess I could prepare thousands of splash weapons when the character is first made. I could even prepare someone else's while they aren't paying attention. "Lora sneaks into her opponent's home late at night, and she secretly prepares all of her foe's splash weapons." 4. The book doesn't actually say a character has to prepare to throw a splash weapon. Nor does it say that a splash weapon may not be thrown without being prepared. Nor does it say there is a penalty for doing so. It simply says that if you do prepare in combat, it takes a full-round action. So, since there is nothing that actually says a character has to prepare before throwing, he could just choose not to. 5. The listing gives a page number, PHB 158. Page 158 describes splash weapons and throwing splash weapons. It makes no mention of any kind of preparation. For every other listing on table 8-2 which refers to a page, that page describes and defines what is being done during the action, and states what type of action it is (standard, move, full, or free.) Page 158 does none of this for, "Prepare to throw splash weapon." I believe I have made my point. Given this, I propose we ignore that listing on Table 8-2: Actions in Combat, and we accept the fact that splash weapons do not need any preparation beyond being drawn, as any weapon does. The only other option I see, is for someone to come up with a logical explaination for what, how, when, and why this preparation is needed, and a set of rules defining all of that. I encourage anyone interested to share their thoughts on this, and I challenge anyone to prove that anything I have said here is not true (barring my slight sarcasms).
Dalton Onestone 01-09-05, 04:41 AM	Hold person does say, "paralyzed." It also says that flying creatures fall, so it clearly does not prevent outside forces (such as gravity) from moving the victim. I imagine Urggh could easily be dragged if any companions where present. So, he would probably fall off the horse. Making a ride check to stay in the saddle would be an action, so he couldn't do that. It is possible that something else would have to happen to make him actually fall (like being attacked). I would say it should be the same as if he fell asleep while riding. That's what I'm thinking. He has to make a ride check not to fall off, and he automatically fails the ride check. This applies unless there are special circumstances, like he's lashed in for some odd reason. And since things happen instantaneously in D&D, and in strict sequence, I imagine he would immediately slide off the horse, perhaps to a random square next to it. I don't know whether horses and/or warhorses are trained to guard riders who are disabled and down, but I imagine that would be the deciding factor in what the horse does. If they are, that's what the horse would do on its turn. If not, it would probably wander off somewhere and try to cadge a carrot from somebody.
Dalton Onestone 01-09-05, 04:49 AM	Yet another rules issue -- bards using scrolls of arcane spells on their list. If it's up to me, a bard can buy a scroll of Invisibility for 150 gp at CL3, that makes him invisible for three minutes if cast. However, he has to be Level 4 to cast it without risk of failure, or else make a CL4 level check to do so. Where the rules really get murky are this -- does he get a UMD roll at DC 20 to imitate the class of a wizard first? If so, and if he passes it, then the CL check is easier (if he's at Level 1 or Level 2), or else unnecessary (if he's at Level 3). I say yes. I also say he can do all the checks in no time, because that's the way UMD and CL checks work. They're just rolls that are made to determine if another action (using the scroll) succeeds. I would NOT argue that a bard can use a CL1 scroll of CLW without a UMD check. Level 1 CLW is a divine spell, and bards don't cast divine spells.without UMD checks. On the other hand, he could buy a bard scroll for 50 gp, and be able to cast it on an unconscious person who can't drink a potion, if he so chooses. (Uh, what does happen if you pour a CLW potion into an unconscious person's mouth? Say they have -1 HP and no other reason for being unconscious. Do they revive?)
KerlanRayne 01-09-05, 05:11 AM	1. A Satyr has 5 HD and 5 levels of Fey, but a LA of +2. So what's the ECL of a Satyr Fighter 1 -- 3 or 6? 2. Urggh the Barbarian is charging Tuck the Cleric. Tuck readies Hold Person for when Urggh is in range. Urggh fails his save. Which comes next -- Urggh getting his once-per-round retry on the save, or Tuck walking over and delivering a coup-de-grace? 3. Urggh was charging on horseback. He gets paralyzed. Where does he end up? Falling off the horse and lying on the ground in the square where he was when Hold Person hit? And what does his warhorse probably do?1. For ECL you add everything together. 5 Fey HD + 2 LA + 1 Fighter = ECL 8. 2. Manking another save is a full round action, since Urggh has already started moving this round he can't take a full round action and it moves to Tuck's turn. 3. I'm pretty sure that theres a 50/50 chance of someone unconcious falling from the saddle, so I would use that. [EDIT: Here it is.]If you are knocked unconscious, you have a 50% chance to stay in the saddle (or 75% if you’re in a military saddle). Otherwise you fall and take 1d6 points of damage. Without you to guide it, your mount avoids combat. @All: Just wanting to make sure how spells work now. Now I know that we add up all Spell Levels and divide by 3. What about cantrips? Do they count as half levels? A third level wizard with 16 intelligence would have 4 cantrips, 3 1st level spells, and 2 2nd level spells. Without cantrips that comes to: [ (3*1) + (2*2) ] / 3 = 7 / 3 = 2.3 = 3 spell levels. Now that could either be all 3 1st level spells or a 1st level and a second level spell. Now do we pick one of those options and prepare that many spells or do we prepare all of our spells normally and can only cast so many depending on our options. If we added cantrips to this it would be: [ (4*0.5) + (3*1) + (2*2) ] / 3 = 9 / 3 = 3 spell levels. Which doesn't help at this level, but might later on. KerlanRayne
Caterane 01-09-05, 05:24 AM	Level 0 Spells are free and do not count against your daily limit. No one would cast 2 rays of frost when he could cast magic missile instead. Re: Splash Weapons. With fullround action they probably mean unstoppering it, or something similar. Are you sure vials are made of glass? They would break after the first action, even sitting down on a chair might be dangerous with acid glass vials all over your body, not to mention combat. I think they come in iron vials and you have to unstopper them to let the contents spill.
Dalton Onestone 01-09-05, 06:44 AM	Thanks! And that's 75% chance of staying mounted in a military saddle, which everybody will have ... I'm beginning to see more and more ways in which Sleep doesn't wind up being a save-or-die first-level spell. That's a good thing ... Besides, if somebody DOES fall out of the saddle while sleepy, he'll wake up when he hits ...
KerlanRayne 01-09-05, 11:26 AM	How many different craft skills are: Weaponsmithing Bowmaking Arrowmaking (fletching)? Most DMs would say just one, although evidence to the contrary can be found in a place or two in the DMG, I think.Most DM's would say it's two skills. Weaponsmithing is one, and bowmaking/arrowmaking is another. Like Knowledge, Perform, and Profession, Craft is actually a number of separate skills. You could have several Craft skills, each with its own ranks, each purchased as a separate skill. KerlanRayne
KerlanRayne 01-09-05, 12:26 PM	Looking at it now, crafting doesn't have to be done until completion, you can stop where you are, go adventuring, and pick up where you left off. So crafting, magic or otherwise, shouldn't prevent fighting, or is this an arena rule. Can we do this or not? KerlanRayne
T'Var 01-09-05, 02:02 PM	Looking at it now, crafting doesn't have to be done until completion, you can stop where you are, go adventuring, and pick up where you left off. So crafting, magic or otherwise, shouldn't prevent fighting, or is this an arena rule. Can we do this or not? KerlanRayne the easiest way to do creation. is checking by the day. that way you can craft for 6 days and fight in the arena the 7th if this is going to be allowed i dont know but it is Core and by the book
LLMadCow 01-09-05, 02:13 PM	Re: Splash Weapons. With fullround action they probably mean unstoppering it, or something similar. Are you sure vials are made of glass? They would break after the first action, even sitting down on a chair might be dangerous with acid glass vials all over your body, not to mention combat. I think they come in iron vials and you have to unstopper them to let the contents spill. :heehee :rofl: :heehee Iron vials that you unstopper? Are these suposed to be the precursors to aluminum beer and soda cans? Maybe we go Iron Vials ==> Steel Cans ==> Aluminum Cans? Anyway, on to my point..... Physical Description:A typical potion or oil consists of 1 ounce of liquid held in a ceramic or glass vial fitted with a tight stopper. The stoppered container is usually no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high. The vial has AC 13, 1 hit point, hardness 1, and a break DC of 12. Vials hold 1 ounce of liquid. Vial: Weight 1/10 Lb. Vials are only used for Potions and Oils. Shatter is always a nice reserved attack against that fighter carrying around 100 potions and oils for combat. Especially so if you have a high enough DC. Now for Alchemical weapons and attacks.... Acid: You can throw a flask of acid as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. A direct hit deals 1d6 points of acid damage. Every creature within 5 feet of the point where the acid hits takes 1 point of acid damage from the splash. & Alchemist’s Fire: You can throw a flask of alchemist’s fire as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. A direct hit deals 1d6 points of fire damage. Every creature within 5 feet of the point where the flask hits takes 1 point of fire damage from the splash. On the round following a direct hit, the target takes an additional 1d6 points of damage. If desired, the target can use a full-round action to attempt to extinguish the flames before taking this additional damage. Extinguishing the flames requires a DC 15 Reflex save. Rolling on the ground provides the target a +2 bonus on the save. Leaping into a lake or magically extinguishing the flames automatically smothers the fire. Finally.... Flask: Weight 1.5 Lbs. So, I don't mind harassing Caterane, since I am assuming that this is simply a matter of the language barrier (and I figured this out when I was half-way through the post!). :P The long and the short of it is that I am sure that FLASKS may be made of Iron, since they weight 15 times what a vial does. I am also sure that VIALS are made of ceramic or glass. It just happens to be that Flasks and Vials are used for two ceperate things. Although not discussed in the SRD, flasks are not typically glass or ceramic. I own two flasks - one is made out of metal (Stainless Steel) and the other is made out of leather (Cow hide). I am sure that we could find flasks made out of other substances, but at a weight of 1.5 Lbs, I am sure that they are durable no matter what their material.
scaryfroman 01-09-05, 03:34 PM	I need an opinion- Older characters... is the -6 physical worth the +3 mental? I am starting to think that my psion may need all the pp he can get.
Snommelp 01-09-05, 03:36 PM	@Elders (mostly): I think the 1/3 spell rule is a bit...well...much. Yes, I agree that casters are overpowered at high levels. But, I mean, look at how weak they now are at low levels? I know that most spellcasters don't use all their spells during one bout, but there is an issue that if its a matter of life or death, most casters would rather use the spell. The only reason I say most is because I've had some idiot people play casters before. 1/3 spell levels is more than enough. Just wait; I predict that my caster (Ala'andor Amastacia) will win his fight with two spells. I probably won't even have to use any scrolls (which do not count for the 1/3 rule).
One_Winged_Angel 01-09-05, 05:13 PM	@Snommelp: Is your caster a wizard or psion? Please note that I am making arguments mostly inclined at sorcerers and bards, something we see little of in gladius. Again, I'd like to bring up the point that the rule makes multiclassing a pain in the butt. I only make this point because I have a multiclass character who is rather low on level 1 spells. (She can cast 1 spell. Whoop de do.) I guess I'm the only one against it, so unless someone shoots me down or insults me, I think I'll just shut up now.
MadCowTemplate 01-09-05, 05:29 PM	I want to start by establishing a less solid point. Look at the pictures on PHB 127. There is an empty flask, a flask of acid, and a flask of alchemist's fire. I can't be sure about the Alch. fire, but the empty flask and acid are both clearly made of glass. Also, the Alch. fire is shaped almost exactly like modern chemical flasks, which I guarantee you every modern chemist owns. I used one in high-school. Like most, it was Pyrex brand glass. That being said, I realise those are only artist's interpretations, so let's go to the text. PHB 126: Flask: This ceramic, glass, or metal container is fitted with a tight stopper and holds 1 pint of liquid. PHB 128: Alchemist's Fire: Alchemist's fire is a sticky, adhesive substance that ignites when exposed to air. ... & Holy Water:Holy water damages undead and outsiders almost as if it were acid. A flask of holy water can be thrown as a splash weapon (...). ... A flask breaks if thrown against the body of a corporeal creature, but to use it against an incorporeal creature, you must open the flask and pour the holy water out onto the target. Thus, you can douse an incorporeal creature with holy water only if you are adjacent to it. Doing so is a ranged touch attack that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Also on page 128 is Table 7-8: Goods and Services, of which sub-section Special Substances and Items defines acid, alchemist's fire, and holy water as weighing only 1 lb. Make of that what you will. Perhaps they come in special mini-flasks. That I don't know. PHB 158 THROW SPLASH WEAPON A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact, splashing or scattering its contents over its target and nearby creatures or objects. Most splash weapons consist of liquids, such as acid or holy water, in breakable vials such as glass flasks. MAYBE the preparation they are refering to is the removal of the stopper to pour onto incorporeal creatures. Which would still mean that it is not normally required. I would like to make it clear, however, that because Alchemist's fire ignites on contact with air, it would be extremely dangerous to unstopper while holding, and trying to pour it on an incorporeal creature would be like trying to pour a lit can of gasoline on someone. Trust me, that just doesn't work.
Snommelp 01-09-05, 05:34 PM	@Snommelp: Is your caster a wizard or psion? Please note that I am making arguments mostly inclined at sorcerers and bards, something we see little of in gladius. Again, I'd like to bring up the point that the rule makes multiclassing a pain in the butt. I only make this point because I have a multiclass character who is rather low on level 1 spells. (She can cast 1 spell. Whoop de do.) I guess I'm the only one against it, so unless someone shoots me down or insults me, I think I'll just shut up now. Fair enough; my caster is indeed a wizard. Don't forget, though, that with the 1/3 rule you always round up. If you have 1.3333... spell levels, that rounds to 2. And also, depending on what you use your 1 or 2 spells on, you could still be very deadly. Especially multiclassed.
Dalton Onestone 01-09-05, 07:48 PM	Most DM's would say it's two skills. Weaponsmithing is one, and bowmaking/arrowmaking is another. KerlanRayne What's common here? I'm pretty sure I've seen characters who've self-crafted both bows and melee weapons with only one craft skill. But it's possible I'm wrong, or else that they were characters who could craft DC 12 -15 items without any skill ranks at all.
Dalton Onestone 01-09-05, 07:51 PM	Beldin -- I love the quotes! But can you know anything? :D
cellardweller 01-09-05, 08:09 PM	What's common here? I'm pretty sure I've seen characters who've self-crafted both bows and melee weapons with only one craft skill. But it's possible I'm wrong, or else that they were characters who could craft DC 12 -15 items without any skill ranks at all. If that is the case, then those characters were in error. Armor or shield Armorsmithing 10 + AC bonus Longbow or shortbow Bowmaking 12 Composite longbow or composite shortbow Bowmaking 15 Composite longbow or composite shortbow with high strength rating Bowmaking 15 + (2 × rating) Crossbow Weaponsmithing 15 Simple melee or thrown weapon Weaponsmithing 12 Martial melee or thrown weapon Weaponsmithing 15 Exotic melee or thrown weapon Weaponsmithing 18
Naerdaloth 01-09-05, 09:43 PM	Question regarding a possible future build... How does enlarge person work with the half dragon template? For example, if I started with a half dragon half human, I would not get wings because of being Medium; however, if later a permanency enlarge person is cast on me and I become Large, do I grow wings?
T'Var 01-09-05, 09:46 PM	Question regarding a possible future build... How does enlarge person work with the half dragon template? For example, if I started with a half dragon half human, I would not get wings because of being Medium; however, if later a permanency enlarge person is cast on me and I become Large, do I grow wings? yes you grow wings if your become large
Dalton Onestone 01-09-05, 09:50 PM	If that is the case, then those characters were in error. Thanks. That looks pretty conclusive to me.
Dalton Onestone 01-09-05, 09:57 PM	Answering my own question about CL prerequisites for crafting magic items: "Caster level is not a prerequisite unless it is listed after the Prerequisite header." From http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/magicitemcreation.htm Actually, that isn't all that clear -- I'm guessing it was written for 3.0, not 3.5 -- but I interpret it this way: If there's a CL or other caster characteristic for crafting, it will be listed after the magic type, the CL of the item (relevant to attempts to dispel it), and any spells that are required.
cellardweller 01-09-05, 10:08 PM	Question regarding a possible future build... How does enlarge person work with the half dragon template? For example, if I started with a half dragon half human, I would not get wings because of being Medium; however, if later a permanency enlarge person is cast on me and I become Large, do I grow wings? When you take on the half-dragon template, your type changes to dragon and as such, you are no longer an eligible target for enlarge person (which only effects humanoid). You could use a tatoo of expansion for 1 round of wings or take levels in psiwar/warmind/whatever and manifest it yourself for a longer duration.
Naerdaloth 01-09-05, 10:57 PM	Hm dipping into psionics for expansion. Not a bad idea, actually, and if it becomes half dragon half half-giant, even better because of the naturally psionic point bonus. But, with the 1/3 pp rule in place, itd take a bit more than a "dip" to be able to manifest it with added stuff like 10 min/level or +2 size categories. (as psy war) Would a crawling tattoo of expansion work indefinately? Like if it just used the ability on me whenever i wanted edit: oo, i see your point of war mind. that might be an option to consider.
One_Winged_Angel 01-09-05, 11:43 PM	Cat brought up something interesting during my tactics writing. I realize this was never implemented, but for the sake of argument (and because I am bored), lets say Kage wanted to sunder Anna's items. Why is it not possible? It is possible to 'hit' incorporial creatures with a magic weapon (sorta). For example, can a +1 weapon sunder an etherial weapon? Heck, can a ghost touch weapon sunder and etherial weapon?
Dalton Onestone 01-10-05, 05:15 AM	By the way -- what's the point of Arcane Archer? The boni to the arrows would seem to be redundant with the magic weapons such a committed archer would surely own (nasty sundering aside). Imbue Spell doesn't seem to have much value in the arena (or most other places until Phase Arrow is available). Is it all about the Arrow of Death? I guess Imbue Spell allows Round 1 spell delivery, at least for those who have won initiative. A Round 1 fireball could be a little annoying if one misses one's save and doesn't have a Silenced Dispel ready. Still, none of that seems like a terribly big deal. What am I missing?
Dalton Onestone 01-10-05, 05:27 AM	And yet another question: How capable are familiars? Assuming a bird, can they bombard the opponent with thunderstones? With a Necklace of Fireballs? With a really, really small Wand of Magic Missle? Can they telepathically communicate an opponent's precise position if he's out of line of sight? Can he attack from the correct angle to give flanking? Can he engage or evade opponents' familiars' -- actually, there is no such thing as evasive maneuvers in D&D, pretty much -- as per preexisting instructions? I guess there are three scenarios: A. Can talk (raven or master CL5) B. Can't talk, but master got a good Handle Animal skill from somewhere C. Neither
LLMadCow 01-10-05, 05:27 AM	Cat brought up something interesting during my tactics writing. I realize this was never implemented, but for the sake of argument (and because I am bored), lets say Kage wanted to sunder Anna's items. Why is it not possible? It is possible to 'hit' incorporial creatures with a magic weapon (sorta). For example, can a +1 weapon sunder an etherial weapon? Heck, can a ghost touch weapon sunder and etherial weapon? Well, for you, my friend, I offer up the thought for today, and today only! Any magical weapon has a 50% chance of hitting the incorporeal object/being, and thus should be able to sunder objects in the same manner that a regular weapon would. Ghost touch weapons should be able to ignore this. I would also theorize that when a ghosts item was sundered or destroyed, it might also remaifest within a few days where the ghost usually reappears. If you really want to have fun, steal or destroy the original versions of a ghosts ethereal items and see how angry they get.
Jindl 01-10-05, 11:19 AM	Cat brought up something interesting during my tactics writing. I realize this was never implemented, but for the sake of argument (and because I am bored), lets say Kage wanted to sunder Anna's items. Why is it not possible? It is possible to 'hit' incorporial creatures with a magic weapon (sorta). For example, can a +1 weapon sunder an etherial weapon? Heck, can a ghost touch weapon sunder and etherial weapon? Ethereal objects are different than incorporeal objects. All of Anna's equipment in blue is ethereal. A manifested ghost can manipulate ethereal objects/use ethereal equipment, even though the ghost is incorporeal (see Rules of the Game - Incoporeality - Ghosts). A magic weapon is capable of hitting incorporeal objects, like a manifested ghost. But it cannot hit ethereal objects, like Anna's equipment. Only a force effect can hit ethereal objects. This pretty much makes Anna's equipment un-sunderable, unless you have a means turning your melee weapon into a force effect, or planeshifting to the ethereal plane. Even ghost touch weapons cannot effect ethereal objects. -Jindl
Dalton Onestone 01-10-05, 11:31 AM	Cat -- better recheck the saddle on that wizard. Type, price, everything. Well, actually, the wizard is on the saddle, not the other way around ...
Naerdaloth 01-10-05, 05:33 PM	I've got it! Half- dragon and half- psionic duergar. It has the racial ability to manifest expansion which is better than dipping into a psionic class. Plus, helpful mod of +2 Con. edit: question. if a creature has an LA of higher than +4, does it get the ability stat increase?
Deimos Phenom 01-10-05, 06:32 PM	Nope--stat increases go by character level, which does not include ECL's. Racial Hit Dice would still count, however.
cellardweller 01-10-05, 08:01 PM	Ethereal objects are different than incorporeal objects. All of Anna's equipment in blue is ethereal. A manifested ghost can manipulate ethereal objects/use ethereal equipment, even though the ghost is incorporeal (see Rules of the Game - Incoporeality - Ghosts). A magic weapon is capable of hitting incorporeal objects, like a manifested ghost. But it cannot hit ethereal objects, like Anna's equipment. Only a force effect can hit ethereal objects. This pretty much makes Anna's equipment un-sunderable, unless you have a means turning your melee weapon into a force effect, or planeshifting to the ethereal plane. Even ghost touch weapons cannot effect ethereal objects. -Jindl Are you aware of the consequences of this interpretation? If the objects are ethereal, than none of the targeted magic items (eg a wand of Dispel Magic) can effect creatures on the material plane. Personally I had a ghost character I'd prefer that the gear becomes incorporeal when the ghost manifests - but whether this is the case is not stated either way.
Naerdaloth 01-10-05, 08:12 PM	Nope--stat increases go by character level, which does not include ECL's. Racial Hit Dice would still count, however. Darn. Alas, I am really into this half dragon idea. Within a month or so, be ready to behold the newest record Str. Bwaha. *looks over at the current record of 41* :eek: ERm... you shall be ready to behold the newest record Con! yes.. that looks easier..
T'Var 01-10-05, 09:13 PM	Nope--stat increases go by character level, which does not include ECL's. Racial Hit Dice would still count, however. actually racial hit dice do not count towards stat increase Ability Score Improvement: Treat monster Hit Dice the same as character level for determining ability score increases. This only applies to Hit Dice increases, monsters do not gain ability score increases for levels they “already reached” with their racial Hit Dice, since these adjustments are included in their basic ability scores. so if you had 3 racial HD you would have to wait until you were 7HD before you got your first stat adjust
cellardweller 01-10-05, 09:32 PM	actually racial hit dice do not count towards stat increase so if you had 3 racial HD you would have to wait until you were 7HD before you got your first stat adjust No, they definitely do. Ability Score Improvement: Treat monster Hit Dice the same as character level for determining ability score increases. This only applies to Hit Dice increases, monsters do not gain ability score increases for levels they “already reached” with their racial Hit Dice, since these adjustments are included in their basic ability scores. The MM stat entries are assumed to already include stat increases for the HD presented therein as such [i]those[i] don't count. Eg a LA+0 3hd creature would recieve a their first stat increase at ECL4 Eg a LA+0 4hd creature would recieve a their first stat increase at ECL8
Jindl 01-10-05, 09:41 PM	Are you aware of the consequences of this interpretation? If the objects are ethereal, than none of the targeted magic items (eg a wand of Dispel Magic) can effect creatures on the material plane. Personally I had a ghost character I'd prefer that the gear becomes incorporeal when the ghost manifests - but whether this is the case is not stated either way. Actually, its up to the ghost what gear is manifested and what gear is not. Manifested gear becomes incorporeal and can affect material plane creatures. In Anna's case, the only relevant item would be the wand of faerie fire, as all of her other equipment only targets herself. And in the future version of Anna, that wand will be replaced with a wand of see invisibility, which would also only target Anna. -Jindl
cellardweller 01-10-05, 09:58 PM	Actually, its up to the ghost what gear is manifested and what gear is not. What are you basing this on? Edit: I can't find anything either way, but extrapolating from plane shifting powers, I would say that any attended objects would be manfested, and any non-attended objects would stay ethereal.
Jindl 01-10-05, 10:40 PM	I agree. However, a manifested ghost can manipulate both etheral and incorporeal equipment, and can remain manifested indefinately. Indeed, "Manifest." is one of Anna's prebuffs. It would therefore, be a simple thing to manifest holding whatever equipment Anna would like to be capable of targetting a material plane creature, then once manifested, don the rest of her still ethereal equipment. This is what I meant by the ghost chooses which equipment to be ethereal and which equipment manifests. -Jindl
cellardweller 01-10-05, 11:28 PM	That makes perfect sense.
Sindorin 01-11-05, 12:18 AM	Hello all, I'd like to introduce OdinTheReaper, a friend of mine. He has posted a character on the new character thread. I helped him a bit with it, but if one of the elders could look it over in case I missed something, that would be great. Thanks, ~Sindorin
Dalton Onestone 01-11-05, 12:36 AM	Uh, never mind -- stupid error.
OdinTheReaper 01-11-05, 01:36 AM	Yes that would be me. I'm pretty new to online play and the coliseum so ill probably be asking some questions in the near future. Thanks for everyone's help because you'll probably be helping me in some way later on, so this is like a pre-emptive thanks just to get it out of the way.
Caterane 01-11-05, 06:37 AM	Yes that would be me. I'm pretty new to online play and the coliseum so ill probably be asking some questions in the near future. Thanks for everyone's help because you'll probably be helping me in some way later on, so this is like a pre-emptive thanks just to get it out of the way. Welcome Odin, we're always glad to see new faces. Feel free to ask here as much as you want :) @all: The new FAQ will be out within the next 2 days. @MysticMonk: :evillaugh
Deimos Phenom 01-11-05, 02:45 PM	actually racial hit dice do not count towards stat increase :doh: I give up. I pray my players never read this board. Three times now my advice has been wrong. My players would never respect me again.... Next thing you know, I'm gonna be calling my Base Attack Bonus my THAC0.... At any rate... :dancin: *does a little dance while he waits for this week's fight results* :dancin:
Dalton Onestone 01-11-05, 03:57 PM	I noticed three different characters in the new gladiator thread who seem to want to use a longbow while mounted, something that seems implausible to me by the rules. All three are female (Hadley, Lissa, Alexis). EDIT: Make that four! Lia also fits the pattern. Some obvious double-entendres come to mind (mounted ... female ... longwhattever ...), but we must respect the PG-13 nature of the WoTC customerbase.
Dalton Onestone 01-11-05, 03:59 PM	Snommelp: Your evil wizard character sheet lists consistent DCs for all your spell levels. Given that you've taken Spell Focus, that seems inaccurate. Also, have you considered getting an extra spell level per day via a Pearl of Power?
Snommelp 01-11-05, 04:30 PM	Snommelp: Your evil wizard character sheet lists consistent DCs for all your spell levels. Given that you've taken Spell Focus, that seems inaccurate. Also, have you considered getting an extra spell level per day via a Pearl of Power? You're right; I forgot to put in the DCs for Enchantment spells. I guess I should do that, in the interest of fairness. I don't think I'll use pearls, though. He's already strong enough, IMO, and he's only filling in my second PC spot until Cedric comes back from where he went when he disappeared.
Dalton Onestone 01-11-05, 04:48 PM	I don't think I'll use pearls, though. He's already strong enough, IMO, and he's only filling in my second PC spot until Cedric comes back How nice of you to go easy on the rest of us! I'd like to follow that up with a challenge, but looking at his character sheet I think we'd both consume a lot of expendable items if we fought. Too expensive ... (It really should be possible to make an agreement before a fight of "No Invisibility" That could save the gladiators 300 gp per bout right there.)
Dalton Onestone 01-11-05, 04:55 PM	Devourer of Dreams doesn't seem to be using all of his available ability points. I only counted 32.
Snommelp 01-11-05, 06:38 PM	I'd like to follow that up with a challenge, but looking at his character sheet I think we'd both consume a lot of expendable items if we fought. Too expensive ... (It really should be possible to make an agreement before a fight of "No Invisibility" That could save the gladiators 300 gp per bout right there.) There aren't going to be any challenges for the first few weeks, anyways. However, if your character gets rolled to fight mine, I would be willing to agree to a fight sans invisibility. Right now, though, I am pondering whether I should age my character. I could take the coveted slot as the weakest character in Gladius.
One_Winged_Angel 01-11-05, 06:39 PM	I noticed three different characters in the new gladiator thread who seem to want to use a longbow while mounted, something that seems implausible to me by the rules. All three are female (Hadley, Lissa, Alexis). EDIT: Make that four! Lia also fits the pattern. Some obvious double-entendres come to mind (mounted ... female ... longwhattever ...), but we must respect the PG-13 nature of the WoTC customerbase. Longbows are not permitted on mounts, true. However, composite longbows are. I know Lia has that. Does she even have a horse? Oh yah. Light warhorse. Right. That'd be a good thing to remember having. I think you read too much into it. Besides, Lia also has a familiar she might use.
Dalton Onestone 01-11-05, 11:24 PM	Besides, Lia also has a familiar she might use. For what purpose? ::whistles innocently::
Dalton Onestone 01-11-05, 11:25 PM	GREAT new map of the arena!!! I love it!
Einzelgaenger 01-12-05, 12:32 AM	Question about spellbooks...are wizards alllowed to keep more than one, or am I going to have to create a Blessed Book in order to keep all my spells?
MysticMonk2005 01-12-05, 01:49 AM	My first attempt a non-direct combat orientated character is now set to ready right below Lissa.(I'm sorry if there are mistakes. As I said, its my first time dealing with this) Some obvious double-entendres come to mind (mounted ... female ... longwhattever ...) Lances are longer, straighter, and I would imagine thicker....
KerlanRayne 01-12-05, 05:11 AM	Question about spellbooks...are wizards alllowed to keep more than one, or am I going to have to create a Blessed Book in order to keep all my spells?You can have as many as you want. A blank spellbook is only 15 gp. KerlanRayne
Pitlords 01-12-05, 11:54 AM	@ALL: Is it possible to set a link to a single post without opening a new window, and if yes, how?
Dalton Onestone 01-12-05, 02:44 PM	Under the new rules, is it possible to craft for a couple of days the same week you fight, or is it a strict either/or?
Pittbull 01-12-05, 02:56 PM	@Cat and Ash: Whow! I read it and now I know what kind of work it was! Thanks to both of you! :clap: :clap: :clap: @ Dalton: As I know, we will have real time. So, if it takes only one or two days to craft an item I see no problems to have enough time for a fight in this week. Exspecially if you been fully cured after an Arena-fight. If you have to interrupt your work for a fight, I do not know what to do. Start there where you stopped, counting working-days together, might be possible, but I'm realy not sure, if the GMs will allow this. EDIT: Now I read the time- part of the rules: You have to decide, whether you want to fight or to craft in a week. Sorry! :(
T'Var 01-12-05, 03:19 PM	EDIT: Now I read the time- part of the rules: You have to decide, whether you want to fight or to craft in a week. Sorry! :( Yup, its one or the other
Ashenai 01-12-05, 04:38 PM	We were just talking about this with Cat, and we think it would be fair and not unbalancing to let every character have one "free" day of crafting (or whatever else they want to do) a week, even if they're doing something else this week. So your character can spend the week (7 days) crafting and do nothing else, or he can fight and still have a day left over to craft. The FAQ will be changed to reflect this new rule soon. Also, Cat's doing pairings in half an hour, so everyone tidy up your characters, and get ready. :D
LLMadCow 01-12-05, 06:29 PM	We were just talking about this with Cat, and we think it would be fair and not unbalancing to let every character have one "free" day of crafting (or whatever else they want to do) a week, even if they're doing something else this week. So your character can spend the week (7 days) crafting and do nothing else, or he can fight and still have a day left over to craft. The FAQ will be changed to reflect this new rule soon. Okay guys, lets take a nice look at reality. 3 fights occur within one day of Living Gladius, right? 3 fights take 3 weeks Real Time to run, right? At the end of the 3 weeks Real Time, Gladius 'plays catch-up' and resynchronizes with Real Time. So, we don't need to worry about crafting. Look at it this way, your character has 20 days to craft whatever he wants before his next day of fights. Do not worry about squeezing a day in between fights, since that is silly and even more confusing. Just allow everyone to craft items at the end of their 3 weeks of fights. As long as the items cost less than 20,000gp, they are good to go. Want that Mithral Full Plate? 10,500gp. No problem. Want the matching Heavy Mithral Shield? 1,020gp. No problem. Want that Adamantine Longsword? 3,015gp. No problem. 17 days of crafting at a cost of 7,267.5gp. All this and you have 3 days to go out drinking and partying before your next day of fights! Sounds good to me.
Pitlords 01-12-05, 07:28 PM	Okay guys, lets take a nice look at reality. 3 fights occur within one day of Living Gladius, right? No, wrong. One day takes one day. You spend only 1/3 spells because without the Nimbus you can die, so you must have spells left for your life after the fight is done. If you would spend all spells you would be helpless or severly weakened and someone might use this opportunity. So much for the 1/3 rule. As for free time, it is not that you just fight 2 minutes and the rest of the week is off, no, you have plenty of other things to do, like gathering information about your foe (that's why you can see his sheet) and so on.
One_Winged_Angel 01-12-05, 07:28 PM	Questions, questions, questions. Actually, just one. Ash said something about certain allies being allowed to double up on. Meaning we can bring in allies varying on their "suckiness." Which are those?
scaryfroman 01-12-05, 08:02 PM	@ OWA, read the new FAQ. Its in there. All that really matters at this level is that you can bring in a companion/familiar as well as a "purchased" animal. i.e. Warhorses, riding dogs, mules. It gets a little more complicated higher up, though. On another note, I am suddenly quite drawn to the Metamind PrC. You get a _Lot_ of pp. That endless pp for 10 rds at 10th level is very tempting.
One_Winged_Angel 01-12-05, 09:48 PM	Ah, good. Lia can now use her horse and familiar. @Dalton: She uses her familiar to peep on high charisma male characters. What'd ya think? :D
Dalton Onestone 01-12-05, 10:21 PM	We were just talking about this with Cat, and we think it would be fair and not unbalancing to let every character have one "free" day of crafting (or whatever else they want to do) a week, even if they're doing something else this week. So your character can spend the week (7 days) crafting and do nothing else, or he can fight and still have a day left over to craft. The FAQ will be changed to reflect this new rule soon. Also, Cat's doing pairings in half an hour, so everyone tidy up your characters, and get ready. :D If I'd had more time, I might have made further radical character changes, but so be it. :) As for the one day of free crafting -- for those who scribe a few cheap scrolls before every fight, it might be better to make it one day's "worth" of free crafting. The DMG makes it sound like it would take all day to scribe a single CL1 scroll, which is pretty silly and should be IMO pretty much ignored. Now, back to what a "week" is -- 3 weeks of mundane time = 1 week of Gladius time, right? So you're really letting people have 3 days of crafting per week of Gladius time. And for convenience you're not worrying that some of those "days" might come between bouts, just as it isn't really 3 bouts per of Gladius time but rather 1 bout per day with some strong restrictions on use of magic and supernatural powers. (Because the 1/3 of spell levels used can be the same spells for three bouts in succession.) OK, sounds not-ridiculous to me. So if you guys have thought through and think that's what's fair, I won't squawk, except for my stipulation about what one day of crafting is.
KerlanRayne 01-13-05, 05:25 AM	On another note, I am suddenly quite drawn to the Metamind PrC. You get a _Lot_ of pp. That endless pp for 10 rds at 10th level is very tempting.You have to suffer through 9 levels of suck to get that ability. Compare a Psion 5/Metamind 10 to a Psion 15. Metamind would have 88 pp + bonus pp + 33 pp in free manifestations with a Manifester Level of 10. A straight psion would have 195 pp + bonus pp with a Manifester Level of 15. Which would you rather have? KerlanRayne
KerlanRayne 01-13-05, 05:36 AM	Now, back to what a "week" is -- 3 weeks of mundane time = 1 week of Gladius time, right? Wrong. So you're really letting people have 3 days of crafting per week of Gladius time. And for convenience you're not worrying that some of those "days" might come between bouts, just as it isn't really 3 bouts per of Gladius time but rather 1 bout per day with some strong restrictions on use of magic and supernatural powers. (Because the 1/3 of spell levels used can be the same spells for three bouts in succession.)One week is one week. There is only one fight per week. I think what is confusing people is how Quests work. Quests have three fights in them that all happen on the same day in Gladius, but they take three weeks in real time to play out. The rest of the three weeks is for travel time, etc. This is only for Quests though. KerlanRayne
Ashenai 01-13-05, 07:31 AM	If I'd had more time, I might have made further radical character changes, but so be it. :) If you're unhappy with your character, you can "reset" him/her to 3000 gp and 3200 xp anytime, and make all the changes you want. So far, he/she would only lose out on a singl week of fights. :) As for the one day of free crafting -- for those who scribe a few cheap scrolls before every fight, it might be better to make it one day's "worth" of free crafting. The DMG makes it sound like it would take all day to scribe a single CL1 scroll, which is pretty silly and should be IMO pretty much ignored. According to Core Rules, it does take a whole day to make a single scroll. We talked about this with Cat, and thought we should keep that rule, since, well, it's a Core Rule, it doesn't unbalance anything, and it keeps things simple. Occasionally, mages using lots of scrolls will want to take an entire week off to craft and replenish their scrolls. We're comfortable with that. Does anyone else think this rule is unfair? We can change it, we just don't want to arbitrarily overrule Core Rules for no real reason. Now, back to what a "week" is -- 3 weeks of mundane time = 1 week of Gladius time, right? So you're really letting people have 3 days of crafting per week of Gladius time. And for convenience you're not worrying that some of those "days" might come between bouts, just as it isn't really 3 bouts per of Gladius time but rather 1 bout per day with some strong restrictions on use of magic and supernatural powers. Okay, no. KerlanRayne has it right. 1 day of real time = 1 day of Gladius time. 1 week of real time = 1 week of Gladius time. You get 1 day of crafting between fights. (Because the 1/3 of spell levels used can be the same spells for three bouts in succession.) This is true.
Dalton Onestone 01-13-05, 04:38 PM	So if I create an arcane caster, and he uses two scrolls in a fight, and wants to self-craft replacements, he has to sit out a week. And absent credits I can't have another gladiator fight that week in his place? That is harsh.
Caterane 01-13-05, 04:49 PM	@ALL: A new picture has been added to the World thread. Who might it be? Check it out. @Dalton: ...but necessary. It balances crafting, something you can seldomly do during a campaign. Remember that with crafting magic items you will end up with almost twice the equipment a non-crafter has. And if you don't want to sit out and craft you can always buy it like everyone else does.
Dalton Onestone 01-14-05, 02:01 AM	@Dalton: ...but necessary. It balances crafting, something you can seldomly do during a campaign. Remember that with crafting magic items you will end up with almost twice the equipment a non-crafter has. And if you don't want to sit out and craft you can always buy it like everyone else does. I fail to see the advantage of getting scrolls for 1/2 gp cost but some XP expense, when you need to make several copies of each scroll in advance or sit out every other week. Basically, Scribe Scroll is useless except for beginning characters plus those who happen to be at a point where they're saving some gold for an expensive magic item. Unless you want to consider changing the rule that says you have to spend credits on characters who are "active" but are not taking up the time of a Pitlord or Questlord.
T'Var 01-14-05, 05:12 PM	Well....im at work and bored...anyone else?
Arstimis 01-14-05, 05:49 PM	Hey hey guys, guess whose back.... me of course. So finally got done with marine bootcamp and weapons training, now Im just chillin at my school. we get a bit of free time here, so I was hoping to get back into the game. I'll sit out this coming week, but hope to start up after that... Can anyone tell me if my old characters are still on the board and stuff man...this place has changed, but its good to be back
Pittbull 01-14-05, 07:01 PM	Jo! Welcome back! The old gladiators thread is still on boards just look (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=190985) !
Pittbull 01-15-05, 05:58 AM	Regarding composite longbows: Longbow, Composite: You need at least two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. You can use a composite longbow while mounted. All composite bows are made with a particular strength rating (that is, each requires a minimum Strength modifier to use with proficiency). If your Strength bonus is less than the strength rating of the composite bow, you can’t effectively use it, so you take a –2 penalty on attacks with it. The default composite longbow requires a Strength modifier of +0 or higher to use with proficiency. A composite longbow can be made with a high strength rating to take advantage of an above-average Strength score; this feature allows you to add your Strength bonus to damage, up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow. Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 100 gp to its cost. What means "you can't effictively use it, so you take a –2 penalty on attacks with it"? Do you get only the -2 penalty on attack, but get the damage-bonus? For example str 10- Character uses a +10str mighty composite bow and gets only -2 on his attacks, but delivers a damage of 1d8+10. I know this sounds weird and stupid, but the rules are unclear, there is nothing written like:" you don't get the str-bonus!". Thanks for your help!
cellardweller 01-15-05, 06:24 AM	"up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow" you only get up to your strength score
Beldin 01-15-05, 01:28 PM	Finally I have decided to try psionics... This my be a stupid question, but what is the psionic focus? I always read "expend your psionic focus" but never what a psionic focus is.
Snommelp 01-15-05, 01:53 PM	Finally I have decided to try psionics... This my be a stupid question, but what is the psionic focus? I always read "expend your psionic focus" but never what a psionic focus is. I had to search the SRD to find this when I ran my first psionic fight. Basically, you make a concentration check to become focused, and then can use that focus later to turn another concentration check into an automatic roll of 15. You can also use it to power some feats. Look under Concentration in the Psionic Skills part of the SRD for more details.
Dalton Onestone 01-15-05, 02:05 PM	I had the same question once. Look under the skills part of the Psionics section of the SRD, and you'll find an explanation. It's a "new use" for the Concentration skill.
Beldin 01-15-05, 02:11 PM	Thankyou.
Piuro 01-15-05, 08:41 PM	The young woman walks into the bar and looks around. "Give me some water." She looks intimidating in her full-plate armour, crackling with arcane power. Sorry guys, my computer died, all my data, gone. :( Fenir should be up by tuesday. Get ready for me fighting from my PDA! -Piuro
Snommelp 01-15-05, 08:48 PM	Question: how long does the smoke from a smokestick last in the arena? The description says it "dissipates naturally," which means very little to me, as I have never seen a 10 foot cube of smoke to know how it dissipates.
Ashenai 01-15-05, 09:20 PM	I'd say it lasts for about 10 minutes (100 rounds); basically, as long as you need it to.
Piuro 01-15-05, 09:32 PM	oops, double post.
Snommelp 01-15-05, 10:41 PM	I'd say it lasts for about 10 minutes (100 rounds); basically, as long as you need it to. Dead air, eh? So essentially the smoke will be there for the remainder of the fight. Thanks, Ash. Now I can finish Boraxx vs. Risal.
SnarkHunter 01-15-05, 10:44 PM	The young woman walks into the bar and looks around. "Give me some water." She looks intimidating in her full-plate armour, crackling with arcane power. Sorry guys, my computer died, all my data, gone. :( Fenir should be up by tuesday. Get ready for me fighting from my PDA! -Piuro Wow that sucks biscuits, good luck with that guy.
Caterane 01-16-05, 06:39 AM	I have asked for a Pitlords Avatar Icon, aswell as the Representing Icon for the Core Coliseum in the Art Gallery (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5245293#post5245293). Feel free to participate in the discussion. I have no concrete mental image of the CoCo but perhaps someone of you has. Oh, and I have to ask again: does anyone of you know how to open a link without opening a new window? It is important for the FAQ.
Sindorin 01-16-05, 12:07 PM	I have no idea what determines whether a new window is opened or not when you click a link... but... I would like to introduce my brother, Khaz_Gu, who has finished his orc and is set ready for the next pairings. Please look over his sheet, as I may have missed something while looking it over. Thanks, ~Sindorin
Ashenai 01-16-05, 12:23 PM	I have no idea what determines whether a new window is opened or not when you click a link... but... I would like to introduce my brother, Khaz_Gu, who has finished his orc and is set ready for the next pairings. Please look over his sheet, as I may have missed something while looking it over. Thanks, ~Sindorin His Fort save should be +7, not +5. (3 Fighter, 2 Ranger, +2 Con) He bought a (+5) composite longbow, but he only lists the damage for at as 1d8+2; it should be 1d8+5. Also, he should only have 91 gp remaining, not 92. :D Welcome, Khaz Gu! We hope you'll have fun here.
Sindorin 01-16-05, 12:35 PM	His Fort save should be +7, not +5. (3 Fighter, 2 Ranger, +2 Con) He bought a (+5) composite longbow, but he only lists the damage for at as 1d8+2; it should be 1d8+5. Also, he should only have 91 gp remaining, not 92. :D Welcome, Khaz Gu! We hope you'll have fun here. Haha, okay, I may have missed a lot. :D
Dalton Onestone 01-16-05, 03:17 PM	I'm still not so sure about the feats for my new fighter/cleric character Kwerrok the Quiet (page 5 of the characters thread). I gave him Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment, but I'm having second and third thoughts about that. (Originally I was going to give him Mounted Combat/Ride-by/Spirited Charge, until I looked at the new map and realized that even when things get aerial charge opportunities will be rare.) Anyhow, he can just cast Level 1 spells right now, and there are no enchantment spells at level 1 I can think of, certainly none that he will ever use. So since I'm not using those feats in ongoing combat in any way, not even as a threat that affects the tactics my opponent sends in, would anybody mind if I changed them to something else without rebooting the character? For that matter, would anybody mind if I changed from Power Attack, which may or may not be relevant this week, to Improved Initiative or some other fighter feat, without rebooting? Any advice as to what feats I should have taken would also be appreciated. I'm thinking about Spell Focus: Conjuration (one of the most useless known feats) and its useful followon Augment Summoning. Thanks!
Ashenai 01-16-05, 04:44 PM	I'm still not so sure about the feats for my new fighter/cleric character Kwerrok the Quiet (page 5 of the characters thread). I gave him Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment, but I'm having second and third thoughts about that. (Originally I was going to give him Mounted Combat/Ride-by/Spirited Charge, until I looked at the new map and realized that even when things get aerial charge opportunities will be rare.) Anyhow, he can just cast Level 1 spells right now, and there are no enchantment spells at level 1 I can think of, certainly none that he will ever use. So since I'm not using those feats in ongoing combat in any way, not even as a threat that affects the tactics my opponent sends in, would anybody mind if I changed them to something else without rebooting the character? That's entirely acceptable. :) For that matter, would anybody mind if I changed from Power Attack, which may or may not be relevant this week, to Improved Initiative or some other fighter feat, without rebooting? Once you use a feat in a fight, especially if it was used in a fight you won, it should be considered "locked in".
Kaigan 01-16-05, 05:06 PM	Quick Question: Are we allowed to use the divine book?
Ashenai 01-16-05, 05:09 PM	Quick Question: Are we allowed to use the divine book? No. You're allowed to use certain feats from Complete Divine, though, since they're in the SRD. But only what's in the SRD, which is a small fraction of the book.
Arstimis 01-16-05, 05:09 PM	Quick Question: Are we allowed to use the divine book? The 3 core books, and whatever is in the SRD...at least that's what it was when i left... edit: you just had to be a second quicker than me, didnt you
Arstimis 01-16-05, 06:26 PM	I am very proud to present my first two new from being away Characters :devil:En Sidious Deth (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5248248#post5248248) and :angel:Britknee the Beautifuly Bothersome (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5248251#post5248251)
Arstimis 01-16-05, 07:41 PM	Can someone look those over or something, and make sure im not too rusty and made mistakes with the character sheets
Dalton Onestone 01-16-05, 08:45 PM	What checks, if any, does Level 3 Bard -- who isn't able to cast Level 2 spells yet -- need to use a CL3 arcane scroll of Invisibility? The answer surely depends largely on the question as to whether there are "bard scrolls" and "wizard scrolls" for any purpose other than the price estimates in the DMG/SRD, or whether there are just "arcane" scrolls.
Dalton Onestone 01-16-05, 08:50 PM	Can someone look those over or something, and make sure im not too rusty and made mistakes with the character sheets For the ranger -- that whole spell section probably shouldn't be there; for one thing, rangers don't get spells until they hit Level 4. You also should recheck your skills; I noticed problems with UMD and Spellcraft. And Magic Weapon would be an oil, not a potion, no? On both of them -- you're close to some builds I was working on. Copycat! :D :D :D Cute name for Britney!!
Arstimis 01-16-05, 09:12 PM	For the ranger -- that whole spell section probably shouldn't be there; for one thing, rangers don't get spells until they hit Level 4. You also should recheck your skills; I noticed problems with UMD and Spellcraft. And Magic Weapon would be an oil, not a potion, no? On both of them -- you're close to some builds I was working on. Copycat! :D :D :D Cute name for Britney!! Thanks... oh, I didnt have a spell section for the rogue/ranger, I fixed the rest of the problems, thanks agaiin
Dalton Onestone 01-16-05, 10:16 PM	Thanks... oh, I didnt have a spell section for the rogue/ranger, I fixed the rest of the problems, thanks agaiin My bad. It was for Britknee the Bard. You're welcome!
Dalton Onestone 01-16-05, 10:23 PM	I don't understand the rules on Handle Animal allies. Are you saying that to get an ally of a certain kind, one must as a prerequisite have a certain HA bonus? Also, what's the bonus for a Pegasus? I didn't actually see it on the list that had what seemed like bonuses next to each monster type.
Snommelp 01-17-05, 12:19 AM	Hrm... I was looking at En Sidious Deth, and I can't find what his favored enemy is. I think you might have forgotten that little detail, Arstimis.
Jindl 01-17-05, 12:39 AM	What checks, if any, does Level 3 Bard -- who isn't able to cast Level 2 spells yet -- need to use a CL3 arcane scroll of Invisibility? The answer surely depends largely on the question as to whether there are "bard scrolls" and "wizard scrolls" for any purpose other than the price estimates in the DMG/SRD, or whether there are just "arcane" scrolls. Scrolls are either arcane or divine. You may only use the type that matches your spellcasting, but the scroll may be crafted by any class which has the same type of spellcasting. For example, while Cure Moderate Wounds is a level 3 spell for a druid, he can buy and use a divine scroll of cure moderate wounds crafted by a 3rd levle cleric (which is substantially cheaper than one crafted by a 5th level druid). For a bard, a good example would be using a scroll (arcane): heroism. If it was crafted by a bard, it would be a CL 4 scroll and cost 4x2x25=200 gp. If the scroll was crafted by a wizard it would be a CL 5 scroll and cost 5x3x25=375 gp. The bard crafted scroll would be a little weaker (shorter duration) but would be much cheaper and easier to cast (easier CL check if the bard was not yet 4th level). Use whatever crafter is most advantageous, just make sure to note on the sheet whether the scroll was arcane or divine, and what the CL is. Here's a hint- Rangers can make scrolls: delay poison and resist energy much cheaper than clerics can (2x1x25= 50 gp each, instead of 3x2x25=150 gp each). -Jindl
Jindl 01-17-05, 12:41 AM	I am very proud to present my first two new from being away Characters :devil:En Sidious Deth (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5248248#post5248248) and :angel:Britknee the Beautifuly Bothersome (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5248251#post5248251) AFAIK: Britknee is the first half-elf that I can remember entering the CoCo...
Ashenai 01-17-05, 12:46 AM	I don't understand the rules on Handle Animal allies. Are you saying that to get an ally of a certain kind, one must as a prerequisite have a certain HA bonus? Yes. Also, what's the bonus for a Pegasus? I didn't actually see it on the list that had what seemed like bonuses next to each monster type. Pegasi are intelligent creatures; they can no more be tamed with Handle Animal than a human could be. They are cohorts, and have to be acquired with the Leadership feat.
Jindl 01-17-05, 12:54 AM	Pegasi are intelligent creatures; they can no more be tamed with Handle Animal than a human could be. They are cohorts, and have to be acquired with the Leadership feat. Under Core rules they can be purchased, and they require a Handle Animal DC 25 check to train them to be ridden as mounts in combat (see Pegasus entry in the SRD). Griffons, Hippogriffs, Giant Eagles, Giant Owls, and Pegasi all use similar rules in this respect, which can be found in their individual entries in the SRD. -Jindl
Arstimis 01-17-05, 01:08 AM	Hrm... I was looking at En Sidious Deth, and I can't find what his favored enemy is. I think you might have forgotten that little detail, Arstimis. oh ya, i did thanks AFAIK: Britknee is the first half-elf that I can remember entering the CoCo... Really, that'd be cool. they arent the most min/maxed, but they matched they type of character i wanted more
Snommelp 01-17-05, 01:23 AM	We have: 1 sun elf 2 phrenic wood elves 2 wild elves 11 grey elves 3 high elves 4 wood elves 2 normal elves 1 half-elf 25 humans 2 half-orcs 2 dwarves 1 deepdwarf 1 duergar 4 halflings 3 half-giants 1 aasimar 1 fiendish Human 1 xeph 1 githzerai 4 elans 1 maenad 1 orc 3 tieflings 1 gnome in the level 3 league.
Sindorin 01-17-05, 01:57 AM	Hmm... 2 tiefs on the way, for my part.
Snommelp 01-17-05, 02:14 AM	You know what this arena needs? Gnomes. The Core Coliseum is severely lacking in gnomes. I guess I'll just have to make one. A bard could be challenging... but a monk might be more fun... any suggestions?
Dalton Onestone 01-17-05, 05:51 AM	You know what this arena needs? Gnomes. The Core Coliseum is severely lacking in gnomes. I guess I'll just have to make one. A bard could be challenging... but a monk might be more fun... any suggestions? If a gnome isn't talkative, what's the point in RPing one? :) I'd like to make a bard myself, but I haven't come up with a competitive build yet.
Dalton Onestone 01-17-05, 05:53 AM	The forum is due for 6 hours of scheduled maintenance on Tuesday. Does that do anything to the schedule? My fight hasn't been run yet, and there's no knowing when it will be, so things could get a little bit tight ...
Caterane 01-17-05, 01:48 PM	The forum is due for 6 hours of scheduled maintenance on Tuesday. Does that do anything to the schedule? No. The downtime is from 9PM-3AM (PST) which is 12AM-6AM (EST) or 6AM-12PM (CTRL EU). No one except LLMadCow will be up at that time anyway.
Arstimis 01-17-05, 02:01 PM	No. The downtime is from 9PM-3AM (PST) which is 12AM-6AM (EST) or 6AM-12PM (CTRL EU). No one except LLMadCow will be up at that time anyway. Unless the Wizo post was wrong, it says "January 18 from 9 - 3 pm Pacific time (noon - 6 pm Eastern)"
Pitlords 01-17-05, 02:07 PM	The forum is due for 6 hours of scheduled maintenance on Tuesday. Does that do anything to the schedule? My fight hasn't been run yet, and there's no knowing when it will be, so things could get a little bit tight ... The schedule is unchanged. Fights are still due Tuesday, 8 AM GMT, and pairings will still be on Wednesday. Also, an announcement: starting now, not linking your old fights will be a green violation. This is an example of what a fight link should look like: Lissa Longfellow (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5231591)......LOSS (SnarkHunter) [+300 xp, +300 gold] For the new guys, a link like the above can be done like this: Lissa Longfellow......LOSS (SnarkHunter) [+300 xp, +300 gold] You can find the post number (5231591 in the above example) by doing a mouse-over on either of the icons on the top right corner of the post. The seven-digit number after "p=" that pops up is the number you're looking for. People often like to get creative with their fight links, and that's a good thing. Feel free to make variations on the above style. However, all fight links must include, at a minimum, the following four pieces of information: 1) The name of your opponent 2) A link to the fight post 3) The result (victory or defeat) 4) The amount of XP and gold gained. Fight links that lack any of these four pieces of information will incur a green violation. Including the name of the pitlord is optional, but considered polite.
Snommelp 01-17-05, 02:18 PM	Quick question: do bracers of armor count as armor for a monk's special abilities?
Huan 01-17-05, 02:22 PM	Quick question: do bracers of armor count as armor for a monk's special abilities? No, they provide an armor bonus to AC, yes, but it's not Armor you wear, so it does not bother monks.
T'Var 01-17-05, 02:22 PM	Quick question: do bracers of armor count as armor for a monk's special abilities? no they dont. they give an armor bonus like mage armor does EDIT Curse your fast fingers Huan...
Snommelp 01-17-05, 02:24 PM	Thank you both. The gnome monk will be arriving shortly (pun most definitely intended). EDIT: Ladies and Gentlemen, meet Snomm Elp (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5253480), The Waist-High Fist!
Caterane 01-17-05, 03:14 PM	Unless the Wizo post was wrong, it says "January 18 from 9 - 3 pm Pacific time (noon - 6 pm Eastern)" Oh right. That's why I don't think AM-PM is optimal. Apropos, one think that always seemed weird to me, is that after 11 AM follows 12 PM. 8 AM 9 AM 10 AM 11 AM 12 PM :confused: 1 PM 2 PM It should be 12 AM because - and I hope I don't confuse anyone now :P - numbers begin with 1 and not with 12. LOL Better use the 24 hours system. Easy and you won't mix anything up.
T'Var 01-17-05, 03:45 PM	It should be 12 AM because - and I hope I don't confuse anyone now :P - numbers begin with 1 and not with 12. LOL Better use the 24 hours system. Easy and you won't mix anything up. actually, if you look at the hands on a clock, 12 Does come before 1 :D
Caterane 01-17-05, 04:08 PM	actually, if you look at the hands on a clock, 12 Does come before 1 :D I wouldn't be surprised if the same would be true for your calendar LOL
T'Var 01-17-05, 04:11 PM	I wouldn't be surprised if the same would be true for your calender LOL well now that you mention it....a lot of them repeat the year befores december. i.e. dec 2004 - dec 2005
Caterane 01-17-05, 04:21 PM	I was talking about the days, but anyway. There are a lot of things that are a bit illogical, for example why is sunday the beginning of the week. The bible lists sunday as the 7th day, not the 1st. At least you drive on the right side :D
Snommelp 01-17-05, 04:25 PM	Biblically speaking, Saturday is the seventh day, the Sabbath. Christians worship on the first day, the day creation began, Sunday. And concerning driving: cursed right-handed people trying to impose their will upon us lefties! You will regret this when the left-handed revolution strikes! Bwahahahahahaha!!!!!
T'Var 01-17-05, 04:33 PM	Biblically speaking, Saturday is the seventh day, the Sabbath. Christians worship on the first day, the day creation began, Sunday. And concerning driving: cursed right-handed people trying to impose their will upon us lefties! You will regret this when the left-handed revolution strikes! Bwahahahahahaha!!!!! **talking into a microphone in my cufflink** roger, we have another crazed leftie send in a response team
Caterane 01-17-05, 05:24 PM	Snommelp, afaik Arizona is in the US, and in the US you drive on the right side. Perhaps you should make your driver license before you get into a car and endanger your fellow human beings LOL
Sindorin 01-17-05, 05:28 PM	There was this... one... incident... I have a friend whom we call "Down Syndrome" because of an incident where he DID end up driving on the left side of... one of our... localized military roads... nearby where I live. It was scary but funny afterwards. Left-handed people still rule.
Snommelp 01-17-05, 05:29 PM	I'm not driving on the wrong side, everyone else is! Crazy reckless right-handed drivers... :rant: :D
Caterane 01-17-05, 05:33 PM	Well, that's probably still better than T'Var who shifts from gear 12 to 1 LOL
T'Var 01-17-05, 05:35 PM	bah! maybe from reverse into 2nd , but thats just for fun
Dalton Onestone 01-17-05, 08:13 PM	Does Deflect Arrows work while holding a twohanded (not double) weapon, such as a Greataxe? The answer should depend on whether you think such a weapon is holdable in one hand when it's not being actually swung.
Dalton Onestone 01-17-05, 08:16 PM	Snommelp, afaik Arizona is in the US, and in the US you drive on the right side. Perhaps you should make your driver license before you get into a car and endanger your fellow human beings LOL In English, "making" a driver's license requires use of the Forgery skill ... Was machen wir jetzt? Ein schlechten Eindruck! PS. Please feel free to correct any of my German ...
Huan 01-17-05, 08:28 PM	Does Deflect Arrows work while holding a twohanded (not double) weapon, such as a Greataxe? The answer should depend on whether you think such a weapon is holdable in one hand when it's not being actually swung. Certainly the character can simply hold the weapon in one hand (if he is strong enough), but whether he can use Deflect Arrows depends, I think. I would say that if the person made an attack last turn with the two-handed weapon, then, by default, their hands are still gripped on the weapon, and without a free hand, they cannot use Deflect Arrows. However, I am inclined to think that if the character specifically said they would free up one hand before and after usage of the weapon, then they should be allowed to, and thus (with the free hand) they can Deflect Arrows. (I have no rules to back me up on this though)
Caterane 01-17-05, 08:29 PM	"Einen" but the rest is perfect. In some dialects even "ein" is the correct form in this case. Yes, you can hold a twohanded weapon in one hand, and switch to twohanded grip as a free action so yes, you can deflect arrows unless the arrow is shot the moment you swing your axe (ie. ready action). However, you must specifically declare this action because at the end of your turn you have to stick with one kind of grip for the rest of the round. If you chose one handed to use your deflect arrows, you won't get any boni for twoweapon grip for things like disarm.
Snommelp 01-17-05, 08:29 PM	Does Deflect Arrows work while holding a twohanded (not double) weapon, such as a Greataxe? The answer should depend on whether you think such a weapon is holdable in one hand when it's not being actually swung. Can you get an AC bonus from shields while wielding a two-handed weapon? If not, don't count on Deflect Arrows working. EDIT: Grr... I lose the fast-finger war...
Huan 01-17-05, 08:34 PM	Can you get an AC bonus from shields while wielding a two-handed weapon? If not, don't count on Deflect Arrows working. You can't even use a shield (except for a buckler) while weilding a two-handed weapon (let alone get its AC bonus). If this sheild takes up a hand, and you're holding your weapon in the other, then as Snommelp said, don't count on it working.
Caterane 01-17-05, 08:36 PM	Sure you can. Buckler, Animated shield, Shield spell, Force screen, Two weapon defense feat, etc. You can even wear a regular shield and use armor spikes as "offhand" attack. What you cannot do is using 2 weapons and a regular shield.
Pitlords 01-17-05, 08:36 PM	Well, we're pleased to see that so far, the transition to Living Gladius seems to be working well. But this was the easy part. It's time for the next phase: introducing quests. Since running quests is somewhat tricky, we're going to start with a "test phase". What this means: we're looking for two characters to participate in quests. One will have Caterane as questlord, the other will have Ashenai. Both quests will be EL 2 three-week quests. This means that the quests will take place in one Gladius day, with three Encounter Level 2 encounters all on the same day (and no shopping in between). The quests will begin next week, on Wednesday, January 26. For these test quests, we'd like to pick people who are around and contribute often. When quests are fully implemented, we'll try to have proper rules in place to ensure that even people with not too much time on their hands can participate in quests, but for now, we'd like things to go as smoothly as possible. Please post your quest requests here. Since you can't quest for an ally at ECL 3, you can basically quest for a magic item, for a prestige class prerequisite (assassin, pyrokineticist, etc), or just for the thrill of adventure. You are encouraged to include quest hooks and RP elements; writing a quest for a character who desperately wants to recover his stolen ancestral weapon is a whole lot more fun than "yo, I wanna quest for a longsword +1". If you're questing for an item, please note that the value of that item can be no more than 2400 gp. Don't feel that you must quest for an item; the value of the reward you get for the quest will be roughly equal, regardless of what you're questing for. Please note that an EL 2 quest is difficult for a single ECL 3 character. If you're not confident about your build, we really suggest waiting; if you die, your character gets reset to 3000 gp and 3200 xp. Bring on the quest requests!
Ayatoshi 01-17-05, 08:41 PM	could someone check over my 3rd charadter Asai Carthan for me?
Huan 01-17-05, 08:43 PM	What you cannot do is using 2 weapons and a regular shield. Well, yeah, that is what I was saying, heh heh...
Arstimis 01-17-05, 08:53 PM	I'd be happy to be a quest dummy, heh it'll be a good way of getting me back into this place I'll use En Sidious...as he will be needing that kill element for assassin
Huan 01-17-05, 08:54 PM	I would like to nominate my character, Nell Leonne for a quest. RP-wise, since his metamorphisis (this will be in my RP section later) he wants to get as far away from his brother as possible (so not be discovered). He wants to quest not only to train and gain strength, but also he wishes to locate a War Mind to train under (for his prestige class later). Preferably he would like to quest with a mostly non-good party (definitely no paladins), of at least one other person (I would not chance him solo-ing). He will also travel to learn more about Gladius' more dark, evil and powerful persona from days old, and learn about their relics and lore.
Pitlords 01-17-05, 09:15 PM	Sorry, solo quests only for now. Multiplayer quests are a huge added layer of complexity; we're not touching them until single-player quests are working without a hitch.
Naerdaloth 01-17-05, 09:16 PM	What is the market price for a tattoo? I can only find the formula for self-scribing a psonic tattoo. Also, for a power like Biofeedback, what power level and manifester level do I use? (since its a level 1 power for Psy Warrior and level 2 for psions/wilders)
Huan 01-17-05, 09:22 PM	Sorry, solo quests only for now. Multiplayer quests are a huge added layer of complexity; we're not touching them until single-player quests are working without a hitch. Okay then, I am still game and my nomination still holds. I will just have to be more careful then and adjust my inventory.
Ayatoshi 01-17-05, 09:24 PM	I would like to send my character Aureus on a quest because it was originally part of my plan for him. The quest would consist of a search to find the templar stone that is said to fuel all psionic power. It was once famed to be lost among the ruins of an ancient protoss base but not those ruins have disappeared and he wished to find them. The main focus of the quest is to gain insight upon his ancestors and knowledge of his personal past. I am not sure what the pricing possibilities for the items would be but in order the items possible are: Templar Stone:Cognizance Crystal +3 pp 4000gp Dark Templar Cloak: Glamered Vanishing Mithril Breastplate 15,950gp Archon Crest: Dominator psicrown 20,250gp
Naerdaloth 01-17-05, 09:30 PM	uhhh.. delayed double post.. >_>
Snommelp 01-17-05, 09:47 PM	If the test quests are still up for grabs, I would like to nominate Tara and Cedric each for solo quests. Tara needs to kill someone for the assassin prerequisite, and RP-wise Cedric is going to have a big vendetta against undead creatures when he returns to the CoCo. I suppose I could tell you why, exactly, but only if you're interested.
cellardweller 01-17-05, 10:34 PM	What is the market price for a tattoo? I can only find the formula for self-scribing a psonic tattoo. Also, for a power like Biofeedback, what power level and manifester level do I use? (since its a level 1 power for Psy Warrior and level 2 for psions/wilders) Costing is ML*PL*50. If the power has a range of personal, its price is doubled. When a spell/power is on more than one list, you may choose which one you buy. In the case of biofeedback, ML1 (psiwar/warmind/fist) for 100gp that providing DR2/- for 1 minute or ML5 (pison/wilder) for 1500gp providing DR3/- for 5 minutes.
Naerdaloth 01-17-05, 10:38 PM	Thanks, cellardweller. <rest edited out, nvm>
One_Winged_Angel 01-17-05, 11:27 PM	A couple of questions, both relating to one another. 1) We no longer have unlimited time between fights, correct? So does that mean that companions found in the MM (Ex: Kage's griffon, Enilias' Pegasus) are now deemed illegal as they were purchased as eggs? Or do we have to houserule that? 2) Are we allowed to purchase these creatures anymore? Or, do we now have to hunt for them in a quest? Now a question not relating to the above: 3) We follow the minimum CL rule for crafting items, right? EX: A character has X skills in Craft: Weaponsmithing and wants to make a cool item, but doesn't have more than 1 level of a caster. However, he does have the proper spells memorized. Can he create his item? Now a question relating to Gladius: 4) How many elders are left? I'm just glancing at a comment Cat made to Jindl along the lines of "what other elders?" I'm curious since I don't see to many around anymore. Kinda miss their voices in arguments, truth be told.
Naerdaloth 01-17-05, 11:42 PM	Since I've had a couple differring reports on this... Can the spiked chain be used as a double weapon, in addition to a regular two-handed weapon?
Sindorin 01-17-05, 11:46 PM	Sorry, solo quests only for now. Multiplayer quests are a huge added layer of complexity; we're not touching them until single-player quests are working without a hitch. I would like to nominate anyone from my lot of PCs to quest. Please consider them (well, me :)).
cellardweller 01-17-05, 11:54 PM	3) We follow the minimum CL rule for crafting items, right? EX: A character has X skills in Craft: Weaponsmithing and wants to make a cool item, but doesn't have more than 1 level of a caster. However, he does have the proper spells memorized. Can he create his item? The "rules of the game" articles are currently in direct conflict with the 3.5 FAQ. The official CoCo interpretion has been to follow the FAQ until it is clarified either way, and as such CL prerequisites are not required. The only exception to this is for armour/weapon enhancement modifiers. [I'll leave your other questions for Cat/Ash] Since I've had a couple differring reports on this... Can the spiked chain be used as a double weapon, in addition to a regular two-handed weapon? All double weapons are marked with a superscript 5 in the the srd. The spiked chain is not among them. The possible confusion comes from the OA weapon "chain" which can be used as a double weapon (but of course, is not available here).
Dalton Onestone 01-18-05, 01:06 AM	"Einen" but the rest is perfect. In some dialects even "ein" is the correct form in this case. Thank you! I should have thought of that myself, but it is over 30 years since I actually studied German. What's worse, the saying depends on swallowing some sounds anyway, because the other half is Was tun wir jetzt? :: enunciated with "wir" slurred so that it could be heard as "mir" :: Die Fuess' weh. ("Fuesse" always was slurred to "Fuess".) I presume it all dates back to boot camp some time. My grandfather on the side of the family where those sayings came down went through boot camp, although he didn't actually serve in combat.
Dalton Onestone 01-18-05, 01:15 AM	Costing is ML*PL*50. If the power has a range of personal, its price is doubled. I'm still a little confused on psionics jargon. The lowest possible cost for a tattoo of Vigor is, I think, 50 gp, for which one gets 5 temporary HP for 1 minute. If one doubled the price, one could get double the ML and thus get 5 temporary HP for 2 minutes. But suppose one wants 10 temporary HP for 1 minute? What is that called and where in the SRD are the rules for pricing it? Thanks!
cellardweller 01-18-05, 01:42 AM	I'm still a little confused on psionics jargon. The lowest possible cost for a tattoo of Vigor is, I think, 50 gp, for which one gets 5 temporary HP for 1 minute. If one doubled the price, one could get double the ML and thus get 5 temporary HP for 2 minutes. But suppose one wants 10 temporary HP for 1 minute? What is that called and where in the SRD are the rules for pricing it? Thanks! Only the combinations listed in the srd are available for purchase. ie (PL 1 ML1) or (PL2 ML3) or (PL3 ML5). A tattoo of vigor is not available in any other form than its ML1 one. Additionally, a ML1 tatoo of vigor would cost 100gp, not 50gp because the range of the power it invokes is personal. Powers with a range of personal can be made into psionic tattoos, but they cost double the price of standard psionic tattoos. Tattoos are automatically augmented up to their manifester level, where multiple augmentation paths exist, you may select which you want at the time of purchase.
Kaigan 01-18-05, 02:19 AM	@Pitlords, Cat, or Ash: I would like to nominate Rayos for the solo quests. I think he will be good as a lvl 3 ranger. Also for the quest it would be for obtaining his animal companion as at the completion of the quest he will be level 4.
Pitlords 01-18-05, 02:19 AM	Tattoos are automatically augmented up to their manifester level, where multiple augmentation paths exist, you may select which you want at the time of purchase. Right. And similarly, in the case of powers with variable effects, the effect must be decided on at the time the tatoo is bought (or crafted). For example, you cannot buy a Tatoo of Animal Affinity; you must buy a Tatoo of Animal Affinity (Dex), for example, or a Tatoo of Animal Affinity (Cha).
Pitlords 01-18-05, 02:24 AM	@Pitlords, Cat, or Ash: I would like to nominate Rayos for the solo quests. I think he will be good as a lvl 3 ranger. Also for the quest it would be for obtaining his animal companion as at the completion of the quest he will be level 4. Note that you do not need to go on a quest to gain a class feature ally, like the animal companions for rangers and druids. Nonetheless, if you wish to do so for RP purposes, you are of course welcome to. :)
Dalton Onestone 01-18-05, 02:31 AM	Only the combinations listed in the srd are available for purchase. ie (PL 1 ML1) or (PL2 ML3) or (PL3 ML5). A tattoo of vigor is not available in any other form than its ML1 one. Additionally, a ML1 tatoo of vigor would cost 100gp, not 50gp because the range of the power it invokes is personal. Tattoos are automatically augmented up to their manifester level, where multiple augmentation paths exist, you may select which you want at the time of purchase. Thanks. I really thought I'd seen tattoos of vigor on character sheets with other price levels. But I could easily be wrong. So a PL2 ML3 Tattoo of Vigor would give 10 temporary HP for 3 minutes and cost 600 gp?
cellardweller 01-18-05, 02:44 AM	Thanks. I really thought I'd seen tattoos of vigor on character sheets with other price levels. But I could easily be wrong. So a PL2 ML3 Tattoo of Vigor would give 10 temporary HP for 3 minutes and cost 600 gp? There is no such thing as a PL2, ML3 tatto of vigor. It is a first level power, and as such is is only available at manifiestor level 1 and cost 100gp. You cannot purchase a tatoo that gives more than 5hp. The only way to get a 10hp tatoo of vigor is to craft it yourself.
LLMadCow 01-18-05, 03:08 AM	Bring on the quest requests! Excerpt from the Narn-Ra E' i'Eldalie Marde en'Poik'ohtar, o'ya napoika en'corm leneema i'Tura Kurwaer kurwi'Aina Cu. Ale' ohtar glak i'Aina Cu, ohtar gandele i'Coia Lema oment tanya astald essa Vesta Arato. Ale' oni' Vesta Cu. Translation: Excerpt from the Great Story In the Elven Halls of Poik'ohtar, one who is pure of heart can seek the Tura Kurwaer to craft the Aina Cu - Holy Bow. Once a warrior has aquired the Aina Cu, he then continues the Coia Lema to prove that he is worthy of the title Vesta Arato - Oath Champion. Only then will he be given the Vesta Cu - Oath Bow. Oz Savage is in search of the Vesta Cu. Oath Bows are taken very serious by the Elven Lords. Very few are ever awarded to the elves, even fewer are awarded to outsiders. Outsiders must prove their worth and quest for an Aina Cu - Holy Bow. Once a Holy Bow has been recovered, the warrior continues on his Coia Lema - Life Quest - and proves his worth to the Elven People. One day, if the Elven Lords have deemed him worthy, they will call out to him through the Holy Bow. When he receives the call, he can return to the Tura Kurwaer to have him enchant the bow once again. The value of the bow that I am seeking is 2,600gp - +1 Mighty Composite Longbow +2 Strength. Oz already has a bow worth 600gp that is a [Ma]Mighty Composite Longbow +2 that could be part of the deal to even things out. Maybe at the end of this quest, his current bow disappears and he gets the new bow + some gold or something of the sort. Just a thought. I would love to see Oz go on the above quest. I have the time and energy to put into this concept. I am in frequent contact with both Ashenai and Caterane and I am willing to do what it takes to test this out. I frequent the boards during the week, and if they desired I can help expedite the process by whatever means available. If selected for this quest, I simply ask that I be allowed one opportunity to update Oz and properly plan for the adventure.
LLMadCow 01-18-05, 03:43 AM	4) How many elders are left? I'm just glancing at a comment Cat made to Jindl along the lines of "what other elders?" I'm curious since I don't see to many around anymore. Kinda miss their voices in arguments, truth be told. Hello. Have you decided what we can now call you for short? OWA? OnWiAn? OnWan? Owan? Please do let us know. In regard to your question about Elders - we are here. I am not sure that I can name all of us, but I think our list would currently include: Cellardweller, Jindl, LLMadCow and Snarkhunter. If there are any that I have missed, I owe them an apology. We all chime in from time to time on the various questions. Sometimes one of us will have a lot more time on our hands than others. We all play different roles in the CoreColiseum. Just recently I helped compile all of the playable races and such for the new FAQ. Caterane and Ashenai will be calling on us to perform different tasks and help out with different things as Living Gladius progresses. If you need anything, don't hesitate to PM any one of us. We will do what we can to help. :)
Dalton Onestone 01-18-05, 04:44 AM	I've been using Caterane's first character sheet as a model. That character has tattoos of Chameleon and Synesthete for 50 gp each. These have range "personal". Is he just in error, forgetting a doubling factor? And if so, would anybody mind if I just forgot about the 50 gp tattoo of Synesthete I copied from his sheet, and recovered the 50 gp for my character?
Beldin 01-18-05, 04:57 AM	You can refund any item for full price if you have not used it.
Sindorin 01-18-05, 05:03 AM	I've been using Caterane's first character sheet as a model. That character has tattoos of Chameleon and Synesthete for 50 gp each. These have range "personal". Is he just in error, forgetting a doubling factor? And if so, would anybody mind if I just forgot about the 50 gp tattoo of Synesthete I copied from his sheet, and recovered the 50 gp for my character? Yes, it is a slight error that many are easily guilty of (myself included, in the past). A tatoo of Personal Range for a level 1 power costs 100 gp instead of 50.
Dalton Onestone 01-18-05, 05:41 AM	You can refund any item for full price if you have not used it. Good news on that. Thanks!
Caterane 01-18-05, 06:04 AM	4) How many elders are left? I'm just glancing at a comment Cat made to Jindl along the lines of "what other elders?" I'm curious since I don't see to many around anymore. Kinda miss their voices in arguments, truth be told. The Council of Elders consisted of Snarkhunter, DruidRoxors, Jindl, Magagumo (note that this is still not the optimal size of 5-6 Elders). Now, Druid Roxors isn't back from his extended Siesta and Mag apparently lost the fight against Snark for the top bunk bed :D and is now MIA. Ash and I were looking for suitable replacements and we found them in Cellardweller and LLMadCow. Cellardweller was nominated for Elder when we long ago voted on the issue but he rejected. Fortunately, he now changed his mind and I am glad that he finally joined the rank that he should have gotten long ago. LLMadCow - one of the longest-standing members around - has been of great help in the creation of Living Gladius and showed a high level of devotion for this board. So the current Elders are: Jindl, Snarkhunter, Cellardweller, LLMadCow, and still Magagumo (Snark! Let him free!!). I hope he comes back soon.
One_Winged_Angel 01-18-05, 09:44 AM	A couple of questions, both relating to one another. 1) We no longer have unlimited time between fights, correct? So does that mean that companions found in the MM (Ex: Kage's griffon, Enilias' Pegasus) are now deemed illegal as they were purchased as eggs? Or do we have to houserule that? 2) Are we allowed to purchase these creatures anymore? Or, do we now have to hunt for them in a quest? Well, I saw the answers to 3 and 4, but not these two. @LL: OWA, OneWing, or Angel would be fine. All you FF7 nuts can call me Sephiroth ;) Also, in response to the caster level prereques, anyone have a DMG and wanna point me to where I can get crafting rules for crafting specific items? I don't know what craft skill I need to make a certain item. And, one last question. I don't know the verdict on the purchaced MM creatures, but will they require to gain XP as they are "purchased equipment?"
LLMadCow 01-18-05, 09:59 AM	@LL: OWA, OneWing, or Angel would be fine. All you FF7 nuts can call me Sephiroth ;) Well, I cannot call you Angel, as this reminds me of a pet name for a young lady I know and also the Character Angel from the Buffy The Vampire Slayer show and later his own show. FF7 nuts? I have always felt that the hard core FF7 fans were nuts, so that's a fair evaluation. Also, in response to the caster level prereques, anyone have a DMG and wanna point me to where I can get crafting rules for crafting specific items? I don't know what craft skill I need to make a certain item. Well, mainly look at the item in question. If you have a specific example I can address that. Usually you will find the info next to the item; it can refer to race, alignment, spells, levels, etc. A spellcaster can purchase a Masterwork sword and enchant away - no need to be a mundane craftsman as well. And, one last question. I don't know the verdict on the purchaced MM creatures, but will they require to gain XP as they are "purchased equipment?" Every aspect of a pre-existing character will eventually be updated and transferred over to Living Gladius. I do not believe that it is anyones intention to retro-actively remove aspects of a character that has been longstanding. Also, I cannot say for sure, but I would assume that we might find a work around, similar to the one in place for crafting Uber-Expensive mundane items like Mithral Plate Armor - 1000gp per day. Maybe not, we will have to wait for a GM ruling. What I do know is that you could easily enough pay the 1,000gp for someone else to train the beast, and who knows he may have some extradimensional time anomaly built into his 6 weeks = 1 day training course?
Deimos Phenom 01-18-05, 11:15 AM	What a crock. I guess next time I'll just have to make a big beefy fighter to survive. Figures.
T'Var 01-18-05, 11:48 AM	What a crock. I guess next time I'll just have to make a big beefy fighter to survive. Figures. who was your charector? i dont see your name listed in the gladiators
One_Winged_Angel 01-18-05, 06:16 PM	Originally posted by LLMadCow One_Winged_Angel aka Falling Quickly aka Lead Stone aka Dead Weight :D OWA is fine by me.
Caterane 01-18-05, 06:51 PM	Just wanted to create a map for my quest but Word doesn't look very appealing. Does anyone of you know of a good map creation program?
Kaigan 01-18-05, 07:26 PM	Notepad maybe?
SnarkHunter 01-18-05, 09:48 PM	Just wanted to create a map for my quest but Word doesn't look very appealing. Does anyone of you know of a good map creation program? I searched for one for a while but didn't find any I could download all that appealing. I was considering trying regular old Photoshop next.
scaryfroman 01-19-05, 12:38 AM	@Caterane: What kind of map? DungeonCrafter is good for tactical, and free too... Has anyone else been having trouble editing posts? I have been unable to edit all day today. I won't be able to post before the pairings tomorrow, though, So the DoD is ready to be paired on 1/19. He replaced his used Tattoo, but that is it.
Jindl 01-19-05, 12:41 AM	@scaryfroman - I don't know if Pitlords is allowing challenges yet, but if they are, how about a challenge match between Jindl of the High Forest and the Devourer of Dreams? -Jindl
scaryfroman 01-19-05, 12:56 AM	hmm... You have a very high will save. That scares me. However, i would accept your challenge; provide the GMs allow it.
LLMadCow 01-19-05, 01:17 AM	Has anyone else been having trouble editing posts? I have been unable to edit all day today. @All - Are the rest of you unable to edit posts? I just became aware of this problem, and I came to see if others have the same issue and so far Scaryfroman is the only other reporting such issues. I have sent of messages to Caterane and Ashenai, and if this becomes a serious issue I am sure we can handle it without too much difficulty. Worst case scenario, I imagine we send an updated Equipment with our next round of tactics. We shall see, but if anyone else has problems, please let us know.
Snommelp 01-19-05, 01:37 AM	I just tried, and I can't edit either. After the error message popped up, my post said that it had been edited, but the edit wasn't there.
OdinTheReaper 01-19-05, 01:58 AM	Yeah i cant edit either. I type in my edits, go to save changes and then it gives me an error/refresh the page message and doesnt send it. Hopefully it will work tommorrow.
Beldin 01-19-05, 04:03 AM	Hakatri (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5198400&postcount=156), my Ranger 2 / Psychic Warrior 1 would like test the quests, too.
Arstimis 01-19-05, 08:04 AM	I was just wanting to make sure that my two new characters were put on the roster. Also I was wondering who and how we would know who got selected for quests
Caterane 01-19-05, 08:04 AM	I have no problems to edit my sheets (see below). You all sure you hit the "EDIT" button? :D @Arti: It will be posted just below the Roster in the new "Quest Roster". If anyone knows of a better name, please share it with us
Sindorin 01-19-05, 08:14 AM	Note to all that I experienced similar editing problems last night. This morning it works fine though, so I think everything is okay.
Beldin 01-19-05, 08:14 AM	I can edit my post here, but not my Gladiator.
Arstimis 01-19-05, 08:14 AM	Thanks Cat hmmm, sorry can't think of a better name
SnarkHunter 01-19-05, 09:22 AM	Odd, I still can't edit. Test.
T'Var 01-19-05, 09:33 AM	just checked, im able to edit my gladiator just fine
Beldin 01-19-05, 10:10 AM	There seems to have been a slight problem with the Wizards.COMmunity Boards database. I am not :(
Dalton Onestone 01-19-05, 10:20 AM	If you see this note, editing finally started working for me again too! But see also my note immediately following.
Dalton Onestone 01-19-05, 10:52 AM	Now editing has stopped working for me again. I have a theory -- posts under a certain size can be edited more easily than posts over a certain size. This is consistent with my experience, and could be consistent with the "database error" message I get. Perhaps the "upgraded" software can only do a good job of handling posts slightly smaller than the old version handles. EDIT: I've now tested this pretty conclusively. My short posts can be edited. My long posts cannot. This is even true of my posts on the same page of the same thread (Characters of Gladius), and even if I'm trying to make a previously long post short.
Pitlords 01-19-05, 02:03 PM	Your theory seems to be correct, Dalton. If they cannot fix it we have a problem because I cannot update the Roster. If that does not work within the next hours, we will delay pairings to thursday. If it still does not work, Ash and I will think about it. I could post the pairings in a seperate thread but this is less than optimal and it's also questionable wether we want to have fights that cannot be edited by the Pitlord. WizO Mel said they're doing another update next week so it might be better to skip pairings altogether for this week. I'll dispatch a mail to the WizOs.
Caterane 01-19-05, 02:21 PM	Here's the answer from WizO_Mel: Hi there Cat, Yes as of this moring we know there is an issue Chances are we can fix it But I dont have an ETA yet. My fondest wish is that it will fixed before end of business today :) -Mel
Jindl 01-19-05, 02:29 PM	hmm... You have a very high will save. That scares me. However, i would accept your challenge; provide the GMs allow it. @scaryfroman - Sorry, but Caterane has told me that challenges are not allowed yet in LG. Maybe our PC's will still meet in the luck of the draw :D -Jindl
Dalton Onestone 01-19-05, 03:05 PM	Your theory seems to be correct, Dalton. If they cannot fix it we have a problem because I cannot update the Roster. If that does not work within the next hours, we will delay pairings to thursday. If it still does not work, Ash and I will think about it. I could post the pairings in a seperate thread but this is less than optimal and it's also questionable wether we want to have fights that cannot be edited by the Pitlord. WizO Mel said they're doing another update next week so it might be better to skip pairings altogether for this week. I'll dispatch a mail to the WizOs. Well, anything like pairings that only takes up a small number of posts could be posted to a temp thread, and then copied when the opportunity arises. Your call on whether actual fights need the usual editing capability. Incidentally, I continue to be of the opinion that there should be more threads-of-the-week and fewer persistent monster threads. What would happen if the Fights thread were determined to be too large for the BB software, and necessitate deletion? In some software, that happens. I also have in the past advocated character-sheet-of-the-week threads, because of their superiority from an auditing standpoint, although I now imagine you don't want to do it because you want the links to each character's sheet to be stable over time. But no similar argument that I can think of counters the idea of starting more new Fights threads.
LLMadCow 01-19-05, 03:31 PM	Your theory seems to be correct, Dalton. If they cannot fix it we have a problem because I cannot update the Roster. If that does not work within the next hours, we will delay pairings to thursday. If it still does not work, Ash and I will think about it. I could post the pairings in a seperate thread but this is less than optimal and it's also questionable wether we want to have fights that cannot be edited by the Pitlord. WizO Mel said they're doing another update next week so it might be better to skip pairings altogether for this week. I'll dispatch a mail to the WizOs. @Cat - We have our own Forum, and we have plenty of space, so why not use it? If absolutly necessary we could post one new thread per fight. People read and reply, posting any issues with it. Then, the pitlord running the fight can repost with edits. When the boards are back to normal, it would be easy enough to transfer a complete fight to the fight thread. Slow Progression + Skipping entire weeks worth of fights = :weep:
OdinTheReaper 01-19-05, 06:50 PM	I agree. I think at least for the time being, this would be a nice temporary solution to the editing problem until it gets fixed. Plus if we dont have pairings/fights...i will cry. :weep:
Pitlords 01-19-05, 07:20 PM	Pairings have been delayed to Thursday 9 PM GMT. Since WizO_Mel informed us that they are aware of and working on the problem I try to be optimistic and assume that we'll be able to edit 'long' posts within the week. If the problem persists pairings will be done in a seperate thread though I hope they will have fixed the problem by then. With the tuesday maintainance a delay by 1 day isn't that unfortunate anyway. I want to remind all of you to link your fights (including gold and XP earned), and fix any violations, especially the red ones. You now have another day to correct it.
Caterane 01-19-05, 07:40 PM	I also have in the past advocated character-sheet-of-the-week threads, because of their superiority from an auditing standpoint, although I now imagine you don't want to do it because you want the links to each character's sheet to be stable over time. But no similar argument that I can think of counters the idea of starting more new Fights threads. Well, this argument against separate PC sheets is a very good one! Ash and I already have our hands full of work, and we haven't even added a single one of the many Living Gladius Add-On's. Fixing the links after every fight is just not possible. It is also utopical to assume that everyone will repost his character sheet in a seperate thread each week anew (which is an annoying procedure), and from this mass of sheets the GMs have to renew the links from scratch which means recreating the complete roster anew. This would take days every week! And finally, I really don't see any advantage over the current system.
Deimos Phenom 01-19-05, 08:32 PM	I apologize to Naerdaloth--and anyone else offended, for that matter--for my previous statement. It was rude and I let my current circumstances get the better of me in post. It was a fair win and I'm sorry.
One_Winged_Angel 01-19-05, 10:17 PM	Question. And answer (for once in my life). Ok, it is my understanding that in LG, we make it so that all characters must have the spell in a wand known to them, or at least be of the proper leve, to cast the spell. I got into a small debate, and this argument surfaced: Originally posted by Mystic Thurige "Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity." And then under wands: "Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method..." Any thoughts?
SnarkHunter 01-19-05, 10:43 PM	@Wing: I...thought that was how we always did it actually. Seems to me this is one of those periodic discussion things. @Everyone: Editing seems to be totally working now.
Naerdaloth 01-19-05, 10:57 PM	Can psionic Shards of +skill be used by any character, not just a psionic one?
MysticMonk2005 01-19-05, 11:52 PM	Can I exchange Knowledge[Psionics] for Psycraft? on Emad.
Dalton Onestone 01-20-05, 01:13 AM	Hooray! The Great Editing Crisis is over, at least for now!!
Snommelp 01-20-05, 02:02 AM	Enchantment related question: for spells like "Dominate Person" where you can command your opponent, there is a clause that states that obviously self-destructive commands don't work. In an arena situation, would that include commands like drop your weapons and take off your armor?
Ashenai 01-20-05, 02:11 AM	Quick answers: Wands: A character can use a wand if the spell in it is on his spell list. This means that a level 1 Wizard can use a Wand of Fireball (unless he's a specialist with Evocation as a prohibited school), and a level 1 Ranger can use a Wand of Cure Light Wounds. Psionic Shards: Yes, just like psionic tatoos, they are usable by anyone. Can I exchange Knowledge[Psionics] for Psycraft? on Emad. Yes. Enchantment related question: for spells like "Dominate Person" where you can command your opponent, there is a clause that states that obviously self-destructive commands don't work. In an arena situation, would that include commands like drop your weapons and take off your armor? No. Obviously self-destructive commands are things like "jump off this cliff", "drink this acid", and "cast Fireball on yourself". Dropping your weapons and taking off your armor would probably even be within the scope of a Charm Person spell; a Dominate would certainly allow that, no problem.
Dalton Onestone 01-20-05, 03:28 AM	Either I'm missing something, like an erratum or a basic tactical point, or else the Deflect Arrows feat is very very strong. It simply lets you cancel one arrow hit per round. If somebody is Rapid Shooting, with a 50% hit chance on each shot, that reduces the expected number of hits/round from 1.0 to 0.25 Kwerrock's new set of feats definitely include Deflect Arrows. What, if anything, am I overlooking here?
Ashenai 01-20-05, 03:38 AM	You're correct; Deflect Arrows lets you cancel one arrow hit. Your expected number of hits/round calculation is also correct. I don't know whether you're missing anything; you should, however, note that you need one hand free to use Deflect Arrows, and you can't use it if you're flatfooted or unaware of the attack. The first restriction makes it a problematic choice for anyone but monks; the second gives opponents several ways to bypass it (sniping, for instance).
cellardweller 01-20-05, 03:43 AM	Either I'm missing something, like an erratum or a basic tactical point, or else the Deflect Arrows feat is very very strong. It simply lets you cancel one arrow hit per round. If somebody is Rapid Shooting, with a 50% hit chance on each shot, that reduces the expected number of hits/round from 1.0 to 0.25 Kwerrock's new set of feats definitely include Deflect Arrows. What, if anything, am I overlooking here? no you are not overlooking anything. It does have three large limitations though 1) You have to be aware of the attack, so its no good against a hidden or invisible opponent or you are flatfooted. 2) You must have a free hand. This means not using a shield if you use a one handed weapon or not threatening if you use a two handed weapon. 3) Deflect only once per round. This leads to diminishing returns from the feat as you go up in levels and the number of iterative attacks increases. Edit: too quick, Ash
Dalton Onestone 01-20-05, 07:34 AM	Thanks. I don't see where the "not threatening" part is a big deal in most matches; if the guy is shooting arrows than he's unlikely to provoke an AoO in an arena bout. I guess a summoning-fest could be an exception, however. As for being aware of the attack -- I figure the first round of arrows is unlikely to be affected by the feat. After that, it becomes tactical to ensure that the archer only has one or two reasonable lines from which to attack, and hence that new attacks can't be all that surprsing. See Invisibility is of course a must.
T'Var 01-20-05, 08:48 AM	Enchantment related question: for spells like "Dominate Person" where you can command your opponent, there is a clause that states that obviously self-destructive commands don't work. In an arena situation, would that include commands like drop your weapons and take off your armor? the easiest way to win using charm spells would be to tell your opponent to surrender. non-lethal non self destructive.
Pittbull 01-20-05, 09:10 AM	Since we are using full transperaty in magic/psionic powers. Escape Detection works against See Invisible like Nondetection. Right?! Escape Detection Clairsentience Level: Psychic warrior 3, seer 3 Display: None Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 hour/level Power Points: 5 You (plus all your gear and any objects you carry) become difficult to detect by clairsentience powers such as clairvoyant sense, remote viewing, and psionic true seeing. If a clairsentience power or similar effect is attempted against you, the manifester of the power must succeed on a manifester level check (1d20 + manifester level, or caster level if the opponent is not a manifester) against a DC of 13 + your manifester level (maximum +10).
T'Var 01-20-05, 09:17 AM	Since we are using full transperaty in magic/psionic powers. Escape Detection works against See Invisible like Nondetection. Right?! clairvoyant sense, = Clairaudience/Clairvoyance remote viewing, = Scrying psionic true seeing = True seeing those are the magic transperaty of the psyonic powers the manifestation works against.
Pittbull 01-20-05, 09:27 AM	clairvoyant sense, = Clairaudience/Clairvoyance remote viewing, = Scrying psionic true seeing = True seeing those are the magic transperaty of the psyonic powers the manifestation works against. It's the "such as "-topic we allready dicussed for Nondetestion half a year ago and we decided that See Invisible is "such" a spell for Nondection. Transperaty: Escape Dection = Nondection?
T'Var 01-20-05, 12:48 PM	question: 2 wizard / 2 cleric who has a 16 in int and wis would have 3 wiz spell levels and 4 cleric. now with the 1/3rd rule, would he have 7/3=3 spell levels total(able to cast 3 wiz and no cleric for instance) or 1 wiz and 2 cleric spell levels?
Jindl 01-20-05, 12:52 PM	question: 2 wizard / 2 cleric who has a 16 in int and wis would have 3 wiz spell levels and 4 cleric. now with the 1/3rd rule, would he have 7/3=3 spell levels total(able to cast 3 wiz and no cleric for instance) or 1 wiz and 2 cleric spell levels? AFAIK, spell levels are calculated seperately for each spellcasting class. Of course, Psionics are the exception, as by default all pp's from different classes combine together to form one pool of pp's. -Jindl
Ashenai 01-20-05, 01:13 PM	AFAIK, spell levels are calculated seperately for each spellcasting class. Of course, Psionics are the exception, as by default all pp's from different classes combine together to form one pool of pp's. -Jindl Yup, that's correct.
Ayatoshi 01-20-05, 02:50 PM	If you are a Wilder/Psion can you Wild surge your Psion powers?
Jindl 01-20-05, 02:58 PM	If you are a Wilder/Psion can you Wild surge your Psion powers? No. The power lists are seperate, but both lists draw from the same pool of pp's. Thus you could wild surge only the powers you learn from the wilder class, although they could be fueled by pp's gained from your levels as a psion, psychic warrior, etc. -Jindl
T'Var 01-20-05, 02:58 PM	nm Jindl got it
Ayatoshi 01-20-05, 03:04 PM	ok nm
kattattack22 01-21-05, 12:37 PM	I hear that Living Gladius is up. Feel free to use Arkin as NPC in Living Gladius. If I came back I won't play him again. I have other characters that would be fun to try.
Dalton Onestone 01-21-05, 01:22 PM	Two more rules questions: 1. How are mounted grapples handled??? I would think they are ordinary grapples, except that the grapplers soon fall to the ground. Is that accurate? 2. Can you direct a trained warhorse as to which opponent to attack? (Gladiator vs. gladiator's mount vs. gladiator's familiar?) I'm assuming a Handle Animal skill somewhere in the +0 to +4 range. (And would a different HA score change the answer?)
T'Var 01-21-05, 01:27 PM	Two more rules questions: 1. How are mounted grapples handled??? I would think they are ordinary grapples, except that the grapplers soon fall to the ground. Is that accurate? you grapple your opponent following all rules that pertain there in. the mount is not grappled and both gladiators land in a square connected to the mounts square. 2. Can you direct a trained warhorse as to which opponent to attack? (Gladiator vs. gladiator's mount vs. gladiator's familiar?) I'm assuming a Handle Animal skill somewhere in the +0 to +4 range. (And would a different HA score change the answer?) yes simple handle animal check with no modifiers dc10 if they know the attack trick
Caterane 01-21-05, 06:43 PM	http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/birthday.gif HAPPY BIRTHDAY ASH!! http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/birthday.gif Ash has had birthday on Jan 20! I had the birthday list 10 cm next to me and I forgot it. Anyway, I was able to take some photos from Ash's birthday party and here's the one I like best. http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Miscellaneous%20Pictures/Ash'sB-day3.jpg Ash, I wish you all the best! http://www.1a-network.de/images/cgi-bin/gbs/smilies/prost.gif @all: if anyone can tell me how to make animations I could play 4 pix in rapid succession so that the Harvester flies from left to right in the background. I'd also like to add speech bubbles. Any idea?
One_Winged_Angel 01-21-05, 06:51 PM	Awwwwwww! How cute! :) ;)
Ashenai 01-21-05, 06:52 PM	Woo, check out the hotties! ... I'm never gonna live this down, am I ... That is my favourite shirt, though. Thanks, Cat. :cloud9: :dancin: :cloud9: :dancin: :cloud9: :dancin: :cloud9: :dancin: :cloud9: :dancin: :cloud9: :dancin: :cloud9: :dancin:
T'Var 01-21-05, 11:40 PM	@Solmund we airnt using the Gladiators & FAQ thread anymore, for new charectors post them in the Characters of Gladius thread
Arstimis 01-22-05, 12:27 AM	@ T'Var- Tactics have been sent for En Sidious Deth
Solmund 01-22-05, 01:30 AM	@Solmund we airnt using the Gladiators & FAQ thread anymore, for new charectors post them in the Characters of Gladius thread ok, i'll copy 'n paste him.
Jindl 01-22-05, 12:22 PM	@ T'Var- Tactics have been sent for En Sidious Deth @Arstimis - Please use the Fights of the Week thread for all posts regarding this weeks pairings, tactics being sent, and comments on fights. Thanks! :D -Jindl
Arstimis 01-22-05, 12:45 PM	@Arstimis - Please use the Fights of the Week thread for all posts regarding this weeks pairings, tactics being sent, and comments on fights. Thanks! :D -Jindl Ok, thanks...i guess that changed since last time, heh
Jindl 01-22-05, 12:49 PM	ok, i'll copy 'n paste him. @Solmund - Welcome to the CoCo. I've got good news for you! Now that we are using Living Gladius rules, all characters start at 3rd level. So update that Level 2 Ranger, because the next pairings will be Wednesday, January 26th. Please see the FAQ and World of Gladius thread for more info on Character Creation and the Rules of the Game. -Jindl
Snommelp 01-22-05, 01:40 PM	And not only does Solmund the ranger get another level (which gives him another feat), he also gets another 2000 gp! Welcome to CoCo, Solmund! I suppose I should update my headcount now...
Solmund 01-22-05, 04:05 PM	could someone draw my character up for me? i would really appreciate it. and is there a limit on the number of weapons we can make, all of mine are self made.
Snommelp 01-22-05, 04:27 PM	could someone draw my character up for me? i would really appreciate it. and is there a limit on the number of weapons we can make, all of mine are self made. I would personally recommend the Art Factory (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=232892&page=1&pp=30). If your character concept sounds interesting to one of the artists that stop by, the artist will draw him. As for a crafting limit, the only limit I know of is that it's assumed you always take 10 on the craft check, so the DC has to be equal to or less than your craft modifier+10. After the character has actually been created, time becomes a factor as well, but on creation he could have crafted as many weapons as he had money for (and the appropriate craft modifier, of course).
Snommelp 01-23-05, 01:37 AM	Question: if you're firing into melee, but your ally is concealed by a pillar or rock, does the -4 still apply?
T'Var 01-23-05, 01:47 AM	Question: if you're firing into melee, but your ally is concealed by a pillar or rock, does the -4 still apply? without presice shot yes, firing into any melee gives -4
Snommelp 01-23-05, 01:55 AM	Good to know. I decided that the attack didn't fit the tactics sent. The fight has now been finished, and will be posted shortly.
WizO_Shadow 01-23-05, 09:56 AM	Political issues do not belong on the boards due to their sensitive nature with all involved parties. http://www.wizards.com/coc Wizo_Shadow
Pitlords 01-23-05, 11:20 AM	Attention: Because of the far-reaching changes wrought by the new Living Gladius system, 10 of the past decisions made by Elders have been rendered null. Most of these are pretty obvious; for example, the decision to make monster fights only cost 1 credit has lost its significance, since Living Gladius no longer has monster fights as such; they've been replaced by quests. However, there were two decisions which were rescinded because the balance issues that provoked them (hopefully) no longer exist. They are as follows: XVII Ceiling Reduction 2 To 50ft, 1 To 100ft The official ceiling is now 50ft high. Special maps and arrangements can still make for exceptions. NULL: At Elder request, and because the balance issues that prompted this change in the first place are now drastically altered, this decision is also rendered null. The ceiling is at 155' (150' of elevation for a Medium creature). XVIII Scribing Costs 4 50 gp/level, 4 have to buy scrolls Wizards cannot use the 50 gp/spell level cost to look at another wizard's spellbook (PHB, page 179). They have to buy the appropriate scrolls instead. NULL: This issue split the Elders 4-4, and went to CoCo-wide vote. Since the decision was based partly (and probably in greater part) on a wish to balance wizards, this issue should be revisited in Living Gladius, where spellcasters have been significantly weakened. Until and unless the Elders revisit this issue, wizards can once again scribe new spells into their spellbooks for a total cost of 150 gp/spell level (except for level 1 spells, which only cost 125 gp). Please note that this should not be taken as an overruling of Elder decisions; if any of the Elders feel that these issues are still relevant in the new Living Gladius, they are welcome to revisit these issues and vote on them again. Until and unless they do, however, both decisions are considered null. For anyone who's interested, the complete list of issues can be found in the Living Gladius Elders Forum.
Dalton Onestone 01-23-05, 03:53 PM	Thanks guys! Now let me suggest reconsidering one more rule. Currently, the rules are "One day of crafting between bouts, or you have to go inactive, and the rate of nonmagical crafting is magically accelerated to 1000 gp of list price/day." How about also accelerating the rate of magical crafting to the same 1000 gp of list price/ day, irrespective of how many items are being crafted? Alternatively, the cash value of crafting you're allowed to do without sitting out could simply be the amount of gold that was the winner's purse in your last bout.
Solmund 01-23-05, 04:14 PM	so, wait. what is this about quests? :confused:
Snommelp 01-23-05, 04:48 PM	quests are still in the beginning stages, but soon gladiators will be able to choose whether they wish to fight in the arena or go on quests (to gain allies, to find a weapon, for RP purposes, etc.), and eventually there should be the opportunity for group quests (in the unforseen future). Right now, though, Cat and Ash are testing the whole solo quest system to make sure it works properly.
Snommelp 01-23-05, 11:38 PM	And now for something completely different: a question concerning a fight currently being run! If you throw a splash weapon at a large creature, where are you targeting? If it misses, which square or intersection do you determine the landing site from?
SnarkHunter 01-24-05, 12:29 AM	I'd say roll a d4 to see which square you were aiming for.
Snommelp 01-24-05, 12:34 AM	Alrighty, I'll do just that. It sure would have been nice if WotC had gone into a bit more detail about this kind of situation, but if they added everything someone thought they should have added then the Core rulebooks would be over 1000 pages each. EDIT: I just realized that this leads to another predicament. If the target was a medium creature mounted on a large creature, and the miss still hits one of the squares that the large creature took up, is the rider hit, or is the mount hit, or does the splash weapon fall to the ground right under the mount's feet, hitting both with just the splash damage?
SnarkHunter 01-24-05, 01:16 AM	I'd say the rider would still be hit, as he is supposed to share every square of his mount. Globs of acid aren't very persnickity when it comes to what they'll go after eh?
Snommelp 01-24-05, 01:19 AM	Alchemist's fire, but still, true enough. Thanks, SnarkHunter. Now, to finish this fight!
KerlanRayne 01-24-05, 02:09 AM	Announcement Regarding New Links With all the changes and all the new people, I have decided to repost this information. Also, with all the violations for not linking fights, some might need it. I know it's frustrating to try and research an opponent and having to search for their last fight. There are now three options to link fights on your character sheet. First, at the top right hand corner of every post is a link that when clicked, will only show that post. You can just use the {URL} tag and copy/paste the whole link there. Another option is to use the Post Number like before but with the new {POST} tags. The third is with the 3 digit number and the {THREAD} tag. Examples: - Link to Cyric Tor using the {URL} Tag. Cyric Tor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3463844&postcount=149) I'm not big on this one, it's way too long. Cyric Tor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3463844&postcount=149)- Link to Grym Mordib using the {POST} Tag. Grym Mordib I like this one, short and sweet, very easly to link fights. Grym Mordib- Link to Cyric Tor using the {THREAD} Tag. Cyric Tor This one is better for linking to characters than fights becuse it's the only one of the three that shows the "Last Edited" time tag. Maybe the roster should use this method? Cyric TorIf you want to link to a specific post while still showing the whole thread, you can use the {THREAD} Tag. Grym Mordib Grym MordibTo find the three digit POSTCOUNT number (four for VERY long threads like the Tavern thread), or the six digit POST number, click on the link in the top right corner and they will both be in the new URL. The THREAD number will be at the end of the URL when viewing the thread. If you have any questions, let me know. KerlanRayne P.S. I know many people skim through the Tavern thread and miss many posts, so I may repost this in the future.
xanadu 01-24-05, 02:32 AM	Hey Folks, I was thinking of making a character and join the fun you guys have here at the Core Coliseum. I looked through all the FAQ (which was quite helpful) but I did have 2 questions if someone can help me out. I never had a character in mounted combat. I'm familiar with the mechanics, but I have no idea why everyone has a Masterwork bit and bridle. Is this the appropriate MW tool to get +2 on handle animal checks (as the saddle is for ride checks)? Under the craft rules, it says characters are assumed to take 10. So, to make masterwork stuff (DC 20), we'd need a modifier of 10 yes? I noticed a number of people have checks of like 8 and 9 who craft masterwork stuff. Is there some LA rule or something that allows 2nd level characters to craft masterwork stuff since gaining a 10 check is difficult at 2nd level? Thanks for the help.
MadCowTemplate 01-24-05, 02:34 AM	- Link to Cyric Tor using the {THREAD} Tag. Cyric Tor This one is better for linking to characters than fights becuse it's the only one of the three that shows the "Last Edited" time tag. Maybe the roster should use this method? Cyric Tor I am in favor of this method. It would be nice <Hint-Hint> if the PitLords linked things this way. I think it would be useful for everyone. Thank you very much for this post. I was aware of the majority of this, but reminders are always welcome. Stay cool. :cool:
Ashenai 01-24-05, 04:44 AM	Hey Folks, I was thinking of making a character and join the fun you guys have here at the Core Coliseum. Hello, and welcome! Do join! We hope you have fun here. :) I looked through all the FAQ (which was quite helpful) but I did have 2 questions if someone can help me out. I never had a character in mounted combat. I'm familiar with the mechanics, but I have no idea why everyone has a Masterwork bit and bridle. Is this the appropriate MW tool to get +2 on handle animal checks (as the saddle is for ride checks)? No, it's a Masterwork tool for Ride checks. Under the craft rules, it says characters are assumed to take 10. So, to make masterwork stuff (DC 20), we'd need a modifier of 10 yes? I noticed a number of people have checks of like 8 and 9 who craft masterwork stuff. Is there some LA rule or something that allows 2nd level characters to craft masterwork stuff since gaining a 10 check is difficult at 2nd level? Hmm, no there isn't. We're considering allowing people to make actual Craft rolls if they want (and not take 10), but until and unless we do, crafting Masterwork stuff with a skill bonus of +8 or +9 is a violation. If you can point out which characters have done this, we'll see what the deal is. Thanks for the help. And likewise, thanks for the heads-up about crafting. Now come fight with us. :D
Naerdaloth 01-24-05, 09:04 AM	Do enhancement bonuses to damage count x1.5 with two-handed weapons? And, do you round up or down when finding the new x1.5 +dmg... for example if your str is 16 youll get +3 damage on a one-handed weapon. Wielding twohanded you get +4 (rounded down) or +5 (rounded up)?
cellardweller 01-24-05, 09:06 AM	Do enhancement bonuses to damage count x1.5 with two-handed weapons? no And, do you round up or down when finding the new x1.5 +dmg... for example if your str is 16 youll get +3 damage on a one-handed weapon. Wielding twohanded you get +4 (rounded down) or +5 (rounded up)? down
OdinTheReaper 01-24-05, 10:14 AM	If you add somthing such as flaming/frost/shocking (only one) to a weapon it costs 2000gp or 2000gp + the cost of the weapon? Also when i finish deciding what i want (which will be in about 5-10 minutes) will someone look over my sheet to make sure it is correct? It would be greatly apprecitated. Thanks. Oh and how many tattoos can you tap in one round?
T'Var 01-24-05, 10:28 AM	If you add somthing such as flaming/frost/shocking (only one) to a weapon it costs 2000gp or 2000gp + the cost of the weapon? Also when i finish deciding what i want (which will be in about 5-10 minutes) will someone look over my sheet to make sure it is correct? It would be greatly apprecitated. Thanks. Oh and how many tattoos can you tap in one round? when you add a power you must pay the difference between +1 and +2 so you would need to buy it magical +1(2000+masterwork weapon cost) then to add a +1 ability flaming, frost, or shocking would cost another 6000 for a total of 8000+weapon cost so a +1 flaming GreatSword would cost 8350gp tattoos are like potions, they are a standerd action to use, so only 1 a round
xanadu 01-24-05, 12:54 PM	Hello, and welcome! Do join! We hope you have fun here. :) No, [bit & bridle] is a Masterwork tool for Ride checks. And likewise, thanks for the heads-up about crafting. Now come fight with us. :D Hmm, a military saddle also give a +2 circumstance bonus for ride checks. Do different circumstance bonuses stack? I'm making a guy, I just want to squeeze every gold piece and advanatge in that I can :D
Jindl 01-24-05, 01:57 PM	Hmm, a military saddle also give a +2 circumstance bonus for ride checks. Do different circumstance bonuses stack? I'm making a guy, I just want to squeeze every gold piece and advanatge in that I can :D According to the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040210a): "Circumstance Bonuses: Circumstance bonuses stack when they arise from different circumstances." Since the saddle is a different source than the bit+bridle, they do stack. However, the military saddle only gives a bonus on checks to stay in the saddle. It does not affect any other ride checks (such as checks to guide the mount, fight with warhorse, negate attacks using the Mounted Combat feat, fast mount/dismount, or take cover from your mount). That's why most people get the bit+bridle. As a masterwork tool, it applies to all ride checks. -Jindl
KerlanRayne 01-24-05, 02:02 PM	Hmm, a military saddle also give a +2 circumstance bonus for ride checks. Do different circumstance bonuses stack?Not exactly correct. Saddle, Military: A military saddle braces the rider, providing a +2 circumstance bonus on Ride checks related to staying in the saddle. If you’re knocked unconscious while in a military saddle, you have a 75% chance to stay in the saddle (compared to 50% for a riding saddle).So it, only helps for staying in the saddle and nothing else. Circumstance bonuses do stack as long as they are from different types of circumstances. KerlanRayne P.S. Characters are created at 3rd level now. Make sure you are using the FAQ and World of Gladius as well as the Characters of Gladius threads instead of the old ones. We recently made many changes. EDIT: Dang it, Jindl beat me.
xanadu 01-24-05, 08:24 PM	Thanks! :)
MysticMonk2005 01-24-05, 11:40 PM	Umm.. Is it ok if I change my feat to Psycrystal Affinity? I thought I had changed my PM soon enough but I guess I didn't.
MadCowTemplate 01-25-05, 12:24 AM	Umm.. Is it ok if I change my feat to Psycrystal Affinity? I thought I had changed my PM soon enough but I guess I didn't. I don't see that as a problem. We're not saying it would have changed anything, right? Which was really the point. As long as your character sheet is finalized by the next week's pairings I would expect it to be fine. But hey, I'm no Elder, I's just runs fights's sometimes. And look things up A LOT while I do it ... BTY, Magic Missiles can be NASTY.
Ashenai 01-25-05, 12:41 AM	Umm.. Is it ok if I change my feat to Psycrystal Affinity? I thought I had changed my PM soon enough but I guess I didn't. Yeah, that's acceptable.
Dalton Onestone 01-25-05, 02:43 AM	I'd say the rider would still be hit, as he is supposed to share every square of his mount. Globs of acid aren't very persnickity when it comes to what they'll go after eh? Withstanding the alchemist's fire was no biggie for Kwerrock. But I have a bigger concern with this line of reasoning. Another character of mine would like to aim a Sleep spell where the range of effect includes only a horse and not its rider. Is that impossible?
Pitlords 01-25-05, 03:01 AM	The very first Living Gladius Quest Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=369012) has been started. It will be run by Ashenai for Nell Leonne, Huan's character. If you're at all interested in running or participating in quests, check it out; beyond being a test, it will also double as a quest tutorial, explaining many of the aspects of quests.
SnarkHunter 01-25-05, 03:16 AM	Withstanding the alchemist's fire was no biggie for Kwerrock. But I have a bigger concern with this line of reasoning. Another character of mine would like to aim a Sleep spell where the range of effect includes only a horse and not its rider. Is that impossible? In the past we've (I've) done a 50/50 roll to see who was affected. My two cp.
LLMadCow 01-25-05, 03:34 AM	@ALL - There are some changes that people could make that would make life easier for everyone. When listing character statistics that are sum of other numbers, please list the formula used to get the total. Examples include: Hit Points, Saves, Abilities, Armor Class, Skill Modifiers, etc. Hit Points should list the following: HP from Class(es), HP from Race, HP from Feats, HP from Powers/Spells/Special Abilities, etc. Saves should list the following: Save from Class(es), Bonus from Race, Bonus from Special Abilities, Bonus from Feats, etc. Abilities should list the following: Modifiers from Race, Modifiers from Magical Items, Points spent, and perhaps even add a notation for buffs. Armor Class should list the following: Armor, Deflection, Dodge, Enhancement, Insight, Luck, Natural, Profane and Sacred. I don't know that we have access to all of these, but these should be all of the possible types of AC boni. Skill Modifiers should list the following: Ranks from each class, Synergy Bonus, Feats, Ability Modifiers, other modifiers to the skill. This makes things a lot easier when trying to check a character sheet. This is especially important since we all organize our character sheets in different manners. I like the way I have my sheet, but it drives Caterane crazy. Caterane loves his style, but it doesn't always seem perfect to me. So, we both list all of the information needed and this way people can easily understand what comes from where. If you wanted to take this a little bit further, you should be listing why you have what spells. Do you have bonus spells from specialization? Maybe from having a high Ability score. Perhaps you also have domain spells. This makes it MUCH easier to understand and much less likely that anyone will be confused. There are a lot of people that have really good examples of what a character sheet should look like to make sense for the world. I suggest using a version of the default character sheet, or find someone who's style suits you, and then quote them, copy their info, paste it into your post and modify to meet your needs. Be sure to go over everything discarding what isn't correct for your PC, but keeping what you need.
Dalton Onestone 01-25-05, 03:50 AM	In the past we've (I've) done a 50/50 roll to see who was affected. My two cp. Well yes. That's if both are in the area of effect, which is the normal situation. My clever idea was to carefully arrange matters so that only the mount and not the ride was in the area of effect. I am sadly discovering, however, that this minor piece of tactical brilliance is unworkable according to the rules.
Jindl 01-25-05, 07:55 AM	Well yes. That's if both are in the area of effect, which is the normal situation. My clever idea was to carefully arrange matters so that only the mount and not the ride was in the area of effect. I am sadly discovering, however, that this minor piece of tactical brilliance is unworkable according to the rules. Just remember that sleep will target the lowest HD creature first. So if the rider has more HD (like a 3rd lvl PC on a heavy warhorse), then it will target the rider. If the mount has less HD (like a 3rd lvl PC on a riding dog or a 5th lvl PC on a heavy warhorse), then it will target the mount. If the rider and mount have the same number of HD, then roll 50/50 as Snark suggested. Since they share the same space, there is no way to include one in the area of the spell without including the other. -Jindl
OdinTheReaper 01-25-05, 11:49 AM	Here's another odd question. How do they determine power levels in the Character of Gladius thread? Some people have the same number of win/losses but their power levels are different? Odin's brain hurts from trying to come up with a solution to this question. :confused:
Jindl 01-25-05, 11:51 AM	@Odin- Your power rating affects nothing from a game mechanics point of view. It's mostly just for prestige (aka. bragging rights :D). Check out this post for an explanation of how it works. -Jindl
OdinTheReaper 01-25-05, 11:55 AM	@Odin- Your power rating affects nothing from a game mechanics point of view. It's mostly just for prestige (aka. bragging rights :D). Check out this post for an explanation of how it works. -Jindl @Jindl- Ahh i understand now. Thanks.
Dalton Onestone 01-25-05, 01:23 PM	If somebody is set to napping by Sleep, and is attacked, how quickly does he wake up? More specifically, can a wizard and an ally get two coup-de-grace attempts in before he is no longer helpless?
T'Var 01-25-05, 01:27 PM	If somebody is set to napping by Sleep, and is attacked, how quickly does he wake up? More specifically, can a wizard and an ally get two coup-de-grace attempts in before he is no longer helpless? they wake up the very moment they are dmged second note, yes you an and ally can hold action to CDG together as long as the ally is inteligent (dont see a horse understanding the aim and concentration required for a CDG) two saving throws would be granted, one for each CDG
Naerdaloth 01-25-05, 01:55 PM	How many doses does poison have (under the prices listed on this page (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/abilitiesAndConditions.html))?
Jindl 01-25-05, 01:59 PM	How many doses does poison have (under the prices listed on this page (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/abilitiesAndConditions.html))? The price listed is for 1 dose of poison. -Jindl
Dalton Onestone 01-25-05, 02:15 PM	second note, yes you an and ally can hold action to CDG together as long as the ally is inteligent (dont see a horse understanding the aim and concentration required for a CDG) two saving throws would be granted, one for each CDG Glad to hear it. Now I just have to make sure that my new wizard character doesn't have to fight too many elves ... Oh, one more thing. If an unconscious person is on horseback, and the horse is trying to avoid combat, can you CDG him anyway? I'd say yes if you spend one turn getting next to the horse, and then on the next one have your horse match speeds with the other one while you CDG.
T'Var 01-25-05, 02:30 PM	Glad to hear it. Now I just have to make sure that my new wizard character doesn't have to fight too many elves ... Oh, one more thing. If an unconscious person is on horseback, and the horse is trying to avoid combat, can you CDG him anyway? I'd say yes if you spend one turn getting next to the horse, and then on the next one have your horse match speeds with the other one while you CDG. requires a full round action so yes if your horse can match speed it is possable, however you will be subject to an AoO from your opponents horse
Dalton Onestone 01-25-05, 02:43 PM	requires a full round action so yes if your horse can match speed it is possable, however you will be subject to an AoO from your opponents horse Makes sense. A fair tradeoff, I'd think -- one horsey AoO, for a shot at an instakill.
Dalton Onestone 01-25-05, 03:41 PM	@all Ringelhut is up, if somebody wants to take a look and see what obvious errors I made. http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5192558&postcount=129 I know that I should courteously put in stat blocks for the hawk and horse, give him height and weight, total up his XP, and in my copious free time give him a backstory. Anything else?
SnarkHunter 01-25-05, 04:02 PM	The big thing Dalton, is that casters prepare all of their spells before hand now. I didn't see anything else in a cursory look over it.
Ayatoshi 01-25-05, 04:26 PM	Due to late events and stupidity on my part I would like to ask if it is okay if I completely remake Rei Ayanami because I want to make her the original way she was going to be using the template w/LA listed in the FAQ: Celestial +1 LA
Snommelp 01-25-05, 04:30 PM	I think I would like to donate Ala'andor to the general public as an NPC Mercenary. I only built him to prove a point, and apparently the tactics I write for him are incomprehensible. What steps are required to give him, as it were, to CoCo?
Naerdaloth 01-25-05, 05:06 PM	Can Craft Armor be used to create barding for animals? And if so is there any modification to the DC
Dalton Onestone 01-25-05, 05:14 PM	The big thing Dalton, is that casters prepare all of their spells before hand now. Whoa!!! Where is THAT in the rules??? That seriously hurts somebody who likes to cast Sleep but doesn't know whether he'll face an elf or not.
Dalton Onestone 01-25-05, 05:16 PM	Can Craft Armor be used to create barding for animals? And if so is there any modification to the DC Since there are rules for prices and weight of "armor" -- not "barding" -- for all sizes of humanoid and nonhumanoid creatures, I assume that the same skill can be used to craft it. I've assumed that the DC is based on AC, just as the PHB says.
Snommelp 01-25-05, 05:39 PM	Whoa!!! Where is THAT in the rules??? That seriously hurts somebody who likes to cast Sleep but doesn't know whether he'll face an elf or not. Might want to keep a scroll of Hold Person or two handy, then. I can attest to it being in the rules, though; I had a similar discussion with somebody in the old CoCo.
Huan 01-25-05, 06:38 PM	Ignore => Not sure why I hit reply ... :embarrass
Ayatoshi 01-25-05, 06:49 PM	Is it possible to polymorph any object a character by paying for the casting of the spell? What would happen to the character?
Dalton Onestone 01-25-05, 07:20 PM	Might want to keep a scroll of Hold Person or two handy, then. I can attest to it being in the rules, though; I had a similar discussion with somebody in the old CoCo. Given how nastily I was insulted by a pitlord for not knowing this rule -- and given that Cat had previously gone over the same character of mine who didn't follow the rule, and hadn't flagged that as a violation -- and given that this clearly was not the rule last month -- and given that I've had two other matches this month not following the rule without a violation being flagged -- I repeat the question: WHERE IS THE RULE WRITTEN???? Anybody? Thank you.
Dalton Onestone 01-25-05, 07:21 PM	Might want to keep a scroll of Hold Person or two handy, then. DCs on scrolls aren't very ferocious.
Dalton Onestone 01-25-05, 07:40 PM	By the way, not only is this mystery rule about having to declare all your spells in advance not written down anywhere I can find it -- it's also a stupid rule. In a real adventure, you have some thoughts about what kinds of enemies and situations you're most likely to encounter. But in the CoCo you have an incredible diversity of possible opponents. To decree that a spellcaster has to have all spells picked in advance is just another gratuitous nerfing, along the lines of saying a wizard can't craft two 25 gp scrolls and fight the same week. (Which pretty much makes a joke of the "real time" label applied to LG.) Little or no logic; justifiable either not at all, or as just another semi-random stab at balancing the strength of various classes. Anyhow, since MadcowTemplate got so pissy when I let a gladiator fight even though I was planning to retire him because of rules that had been enforced on him and since changed, I'll go make Ringelhut inactive until this is all sorted out. I wouldn't want to make the same horrendously earth-shattering faux pas two weeks in a row ... EDIT: In fact, I went and unreadied both my characters. I just can't deal right now with all the mystery rules. First that whole CL thing on crafting, that was enforced without being written down and reversed as soon as that was noticed -- and that, MadcowTemplate, is why the character was retired!! -- and now this. What unwritten rule will I fall afoul of next? I don't really want to find out.
cellardweller 01-25-05, 07:59 PM	There are a large number of gladiators all at the same level at the moment meaning that there is indeed a degree of "lottery". Over time as they spread out, you will usually find yourself with 8 or so gladiators to choose from at the most. Over time CoCo has moved from no prememorisation to half-prememorisation to full memorisation. I disagreed with each of these transitions, but after seeing them in effect, I was forced to agree that they were the correct thing to do. Believe me, you will be thankful the first time you come up against a spellcasting cleric and you don't have to guess which of his bazillion spells he might actually use. Also, are you aware that up to 5 spells may be placed onto a single scroll?
Jindl 01-25-05, 08:16 PM	Given how nastily I was insulted by a pitlord for not knowing this rule -- and given that Cat had previously gone over the same character of mine who didn't follow the rule, and hadn't flagged that as a violation -- and given that this clearly was not the rule last month -- and given that I've had two other matches this month not following the rule without a violation being flagged -- I repeat the question: WHERE IS THE RULE WRITTEN???? Anybody? Thank you. @Dalton - When the change was made, it was prominately declared in the Pairings post (I know because I wrote it). It remained there until the creation of the new Characters of Gladius thread. Currently, the only place I have found where this rule is written is in the Quickstart Guide, which can be found as the 12th post on the Characters of Gladius thread: Important Basic Rules: As I mentioned earlier, you should sooner or later take the time to read through the Rules of the Game (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=postUNKNOWN) section but I will list the most important parts here. You may freely edit your character sheet any time until wednesday 9 PM GMT at which time one of the GMs will roll the pairings. It is perhaps a good thing to set your board time to GMT in order to make sure you don't miscalculated the time zones. My Account -> Edit options -> Time Zone: GMT (Western European Time) Note that prepared spellcasters (wizards, clerics, druids, etc) must memorize all of their spells before the pairings are set but may only cast 1/3! While I do agree that this rule definately deserves a place in the FAQ, I do think we could cut Ash+Cat a little slack on this one, what with all the work they just did to convert us over to LG. As for whether the rule is right or wrong: Just like cellardweller, I was against this rule. But I was out voted by the other 2 GM's and the rule went into effect. I don't think it has really helped balance anything that much, although it did make writing tactics a lot easier. Regardless, that is the rule now, and I doubt that it will change without some strong evidence to overturn it. On the bright side, your opponent in LG won't know which 1/3rd of your spells you'll be casting, which does give you the ability to use some misdirection... -Jindl
Dalton Onestone 01-25-05, 08:45 PM	Also, are you aware that up to 5 spells may be placed onto a single scroll? I thought the figure was 6, actually, but that they were limited to all being the same CL. Are you suggesting that all 5 or 6 may be scribed the same day?
Dalton Onestone 01-25-05, 08:53 PM	@Dalton - When the change was made, it was prominately declared in the Pairings post (I know because I wrote it). It remained there until the creation of the new Characters of Gladius thread. Currently, the only place I have found where this rule is written is in the Quickstart Guide, which can be found as the 12th post on the Characters of Gladius thread: While I do agree that this rule definately deserves a place in the FAQ, I do think we could cut Ash+Cat a little slack on this one, what with all the work they just did to convert us over to LG. Thanks. That helps a lot. I'm glad to see it's written SOMEWHERE. And I'm all for giving Ash/Cat lots and lots of breaks. MadcowTemplate, on the other hand ... I only hope one of my characters fights one of his soon. But if he pitlords one of my fights any time soon, I'm forfeiting the bout.
SnarkHunter 01-25-05, 08:58 PM	Yes that was fairly impolitic of him. The other place you can find it is the world of gladius faq (ihttp://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=278068). Here's the relevant part: What special rules govern spellcasting (and psionic manifesting) in the Arena? When fighting in the Arena prepared spellcasters can memorize their full allotment of spells, but may only cast 1/3 of their spells. They add all of their spell levels together and divide them by three, rounded up. They can cast any number of spells as long as it does not exceed this number. 0th level spells do not count and are effectively free. Prepared casters can memorize anew each fight. The same is true for other types of spellcasters, and manifesters who can use 1/3 of their total Power Points, rounded up. Perhaps a few examples are in order: Let's say a level 8 Wizard with Int 22 memorized the following spells: Wizard abilities: -Spells per day: (4)/6/5/3/2 Spells Memorized 0: Daze, Daze, Daze, Daze 1: Shield, Mage Armor, Ray of Enfeeblement, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Expeditious Retreat 2: Invisibility, False Life, Mirror Image, Hideous Laughter, Hideous Laughter 3: Dispel Magic, Dispel Magic, Fly 4: Greater Invisibility, Polymorph First, we add up all the spell slot levels. This wizard has 6 level 1 spell slots, 5 level 2 spell slots, 3 level 3's, and 2 level 4's. 6*1 + 5*2 + 3*3 + 2*4 = 32. Ildechai can cast a total of 32 spell levels a day. Now, dividing that number by 3 and rounding up, we get 11. Thus, this wizard could cast 11 spell levels' worth of spells in every Arena fight. He can choose exactly which spells he wants to cast, as long as they don't add up to more than 11 spell levels. For instance, he could choose to cast Greater Invisibility, Polymorph, and Fly. Or all his level 1 spells, and Invisibility and False life... that'd only bring the total to 10, but since he wouldn't have any level 1 spells laft, the remaining 1 spell level would be wasted. Or he could cast Polymorph, Dispel Magic, Mirror Image, and two Magic Missiles. Any combination of spells totalling no more than 11 spell levels. He can use his level 0 spells as he sees fit; they make no difference. Another example: let's look at a level 8 Sorcerer with Cha 18. That Sorcerer would have a total of 58 spell levels castable per day (7 level 1 spell slots, 7 level 2 spell slots, 6 level 3's, and 4 level 4's; 7*1 + 7*2 + 6*3 + 4*4 = 55) meaning he could cast 19 of them per fight. (55/3, rounded up) He could, for instance, choose to blast off all 4 of his 4th level spells, and still have enough oomph left for two second level spells. In anycase I hope your not too annoyed. A fair amount has changed so its definitly worth looking over most of that thread.
Dalton Onestone 01-25-05, 09:12 PM	Actually, Snarkhunter, the part you quoted DOESN'T spell out the rule under discussion. But you're right that that would be an excellent place to refer to it.
Ayatoshi 01-25-05, 09:13 PM	Is it possible to polymorph any object a character by paying for the casting of the spell? What would happen to the character? :confused: :confused: :confused:
Jindl 01-25-05, 09:24 PM	Is it possible to polymorph any object a character by paying for the casting of the spell? What would happen to the character? To be a prebuff, PAO would have to have a duration longer than 16 hours. To be cost effective, it would need a duration of permanent. But as long as it qualified as a prebuff, yes you could pay for it. As an Elder, I think POA is a spell (like Gate) that needs to be watched and possibly banned. IMO, its one of the most broken spells in the game (a fact I proved once by having an Aasimar Sorceror 3 use a scroll to permanently turn himself into a Cornugon - read the Time of Dread fight.) Regardless, I'd ask you to leave the spell alone for now. We have enough to debate without having to look at it. -Jindl
Ayatoshi 01-25-05, 09:27 PM	Damn because my Rei was going to be permenantly polymorphed into an Astral Deva...lol oh well I'll leave it alone...thanks
OdinTheReaper 01-26-05, 02:22 AM	Does potion of Hide from Animals affect horses and animals that can be used as a mount or just animal companions and such?
Snommelp 01-26-05, 02:31 AM	Does potion of Hide from Animals affect horses and animals that can be used as a mount or just animal companions and such? The spell description says that "Animals cannot see, hear, or smell the warded creature." There are no qualifiers except the word animals, so therefore any animal is effected. Magical Beasts, however, are not. Neither are vermin, or any other monster that is not an animal.
SnarkHunter 01-26-05, 02:32 AM	Any creature that has the animal type would be affected. This includes things like swarms of bats as far as I can tell. Note: this includes your own mounts or companions, so best not be mounted before using this spell.
Pittbull 01-26-05, 03:04 AM	As an Elder, I think POA is a spell (like Gate) that needs to be watched and possibly banned. IMO, its one of the most broken spells in the game (a fact I proved once by having an Aasimar Sorceror 3 use a scroll to permanently turn himself into a Cornugon - read the Time of Dread fight.) Regardless, I'd ask you to leave the spell alone for now. We have enough to debate without having to look at it. -Jindl He cannot polymorph into a Cornugon because of this: The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level. For a Cornugon you need 15 HD and a 3rd level aasimar sorceror has two! Thanks for the hint of Flower's violation!
SnarkHunter 01-26-05, 04:29 AM	I know this was posted before but I couldn't find it so I ran the numbers again. Played races in LG Human: 23 Duergar (Psionic):1 Dwarf:2 Dwarf (deep):1 Elan:5 Elf:5 Elf (grey):12 Elf (wood):5* Elf (wild):2 Githzerai (Psionic):1 Meaned:1 Orc:1 Phrenic:3* Gnome: 1 Halfling:2 Halfling (tallfellow):1 Half-elf:1 Half-orc:2 Half-giant:2 Teifling:2 Xeph:1 *3 of these were both wood elfs and Phrenic abberation:5 Giants:2 Humanoid (Dwarf): 4 Humanoid (elf): 24 Humanoid (Gnome):1 Humanoid (halfling):3 Humanoid (Human): 23 Humanoid (orc): 3 Humanoid (xeph):1 humanoid (Meaned):1 Outsider (Native):2 Not all characters listed will definitly play, but I think I accointed for all the potentials. Look for an Elf hunting ranger soon!
SnarkHunter 01-26-05, 05:40 AM	On that note Rose is ready for action! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5213287#post5213287) Please check for errors if you've got the time (don't want another moon-moon incident...) Hmmm, 5:40 in the morning, I should get to sleep...
Solmund 01-26-05, 06:57 AM	heh, i have no choice about getting up this early..... and my character is ready. can someone check him over?
Pittbull 01-26-05, 07:32 AM	heh, i have no choice about getting up this early..... and my character is ready. can someone check him over? In LGE you can start at ECL3 not ECL2. So add a level to your build! :)
T'Var 01-26-05, 08:13 AM	since Flowers wolf is not large, i am removing Mounted Combat feat as i no longer have an animal to ride and have never used it. and am replacing it with Craft Wonderous Item
Ayatoshi 01-26-05, 08:22 AM	He cannot polymorph into a Cornugon because of this: Originally Posted by POLYMORPH FROM SRD The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level. For a Cornugon you need 15 HD and a 3rd level aasimar sorceror has two! The difference is that I am talking about Polymorph any object which has no such limitation for example... I have a Grey Elf Monk 3 with intelligence 18 Poly morph any object: -> Astral Deva Same kingdom : animal +5 Same size: Medium +2 Same intelligence: +2 Total : +9 Duration: permenant They are just saying that it will be banned because it is overpowering. I would have an AC of 33 and 37 with force screen no one at third level could hit that unless it was touch and then it would only be 18 still about the average for a character's normal AC
Ayatoshi 01-26-05, 08:26 AM	why isn't Flower's wolf large?
T'Var 01-26-05, 08:27 AM	The difference is that I am talking about Polymorph any object which has no such limitation for example... I have a Grey Elf Monk 3 with intelligence 18 Poly morph any object: -> Astral Deva Same kingdom : animal +5 Same size: Medium +2 Same intelligence: +2 Total : +9 Duration: permenant They are just saying that it will be banned because it is overpowering. I would have an AC of 33 and 37 with force screen no one at third level could hit that unless it was touch and then it would only be 18 still about the average for a character's normal AC Polymorph Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 4 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Willing living creature touched Duration: 1 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level. You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form. The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form. Polymorph Any Object Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 8, Trickery 8 Components: V, S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One creature, or one nonmagical object of up to 100 cu. ft./level Duration: See text Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (object); see text Spell Resistance: Yes (object) This spell functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another. The duration of the spell depends on how radical a change is made from the original state to its enchanted state. The duration is determined by using the following guidelines. It works as polymorph so HD limits ARE in place
Ayatoshi 01-26-05, 08:29 AM	Then I ask how could a shrew be polymorph any objected into a manticore?
T'Var 01-26-05, 08:30 AM	why isn't Flower's wolf large? apperently there was an errata conserning Druids and there animal companions @T'Var - Flower has a pretty big violation. Animal companions do NOT get size increases from their bonus HD (see WoTC Official FAQ). Thorn should remain a medium sized wolf. Unfortunately, your last pitlord failed to notice this, and Thorn's improved stats dominated the fight. Of course, Flower's opponent in that fight had plenty of violations of his own ;) Please revert Thorn back to a medium animal. This is probably a red violation until you do (but I'll leave that up to Pitlords). -Jindl
T'Var 01-26-05, 08:36 AM	Then I ask how could a shrew be polymorph any objected into a manticore? because they assume a 15th lvl wizard is casting the spell since it is 8th lvl wait a minute........ummm.......actually the scroll would have to be made by said 15th lvl caster....so anyone able to cast the scroll would gain the bonus........ummmm........wow this will need to go before a vote i belive. on one hand i see your point, but on the other the writers could have just been giving examples without looking up all the facts which they do from time to time
Ayatoshi 01-26-05, 08:44 AM	I think it doesn't apply because does wolf's fur have hit dice? Does a shrew have the same or more hit dice as a manticore? That's why I agree that it should be banned on the premise that it would be hugely overpowering. 33AC is insane...
Sindorin 01-26-05, 08:56 AM	Originally Posted by Jindl @T'Var - Flower has a pretty big violation. Animal companions do NOT get size increases from their bonus HD (see WoTC Official FAQ). Thorn should remain a medium sized wolf. Unfortunately, your last pitlord failed to notice this, and Thorn's improved stats dominated the fight. Of course, Flower's opponent in that fight had plenty of violations of his own Please revert Thorn back to a medium animal. This is probably a red violation until you do (but I'll leave that up to Pitlords). -Jindl Whoa wait, could you let me know what was wrong with my character please, it would help. Thanks. ~Sindorin
Jindl 01-26-05, 09:02 AM	Whoa wait, could you let me know what was wrong with my character please, it would help. Thanks. ~Sindorin Actually, I was referring to Flower's first arena match, which was against MysticMonk's character, Grakk. His violations have already been posted and fixed (AFAIK). For your PC's fight against Flower, Pittbull used the correct stats for the wolf. FYI: Under LG rules, you can bring in as many allies as you want, but only 1 basic animal (ie. purchased ally). So a wiz/druid with leadership could bring in a familiar + an animal companion + an animated skeleton + a cohort + a purchased heavy warhorse. There is a formula in place to limit the power of the group of allies brought in (see this post), but you still should learn some techniques for crowd control ;) -Jindl
SnarkHunter 01-26-05, 09:14 AM	The difference is that I am talking about Polymorph any object which has no such limitation for example... I have a Grey Elf Monk 3 with intelligence 18 Poly morph any object: -> Astral Deva Same kingdom : animal +5 Same size: Medium +2 Same intelligence: +2 Total : +9 Duration: permenant Hold up, I thought you had to be an outsider as well if you wanted to get the same kingdom bonus.
cellardweller 01-26-05, 09:22 AM	re PoA - I've been dredging through the original CO tournament thead looking for the discussion. I can't locate the exact place it that the discussion took place while search isn't working, but I do remember the outcome - PoA was houseruled to be limited to the HD of the target for the purposes of the Collesium. This led to the retirement of Jindl's infamous Iku Rex who was built around the concept and was polymorphed into a Bearded Devel at Level 3. Iku also took the +1LA hit for being an outsider in order to claim the +5 kingdom bonus. One of these days we have got to collect all these old obscure rulings together.
Sindorin 01-26-05, 09:52 AM	Actually, I was referring to Flower's first arena match, which was against MysticMonk's character, Grakk. His violations have already been posted and fixed (AFAIK). For your PC's fight against Flower, Pittbull used the correct stats for the wolf. FYI: Under LG rules, you can bring in as many allies as you want, but only 1 basic animal (ie. purchased ally). So a wiz/druid with leadership could bring in a familiar + an animal companion + an animated skeleton + a cohort + a purchased heavy warhorse. There is a formula in place to limit the power of the group of allies brought in (see this post), but you still should learn some techniques for crowd control ;) -Jindl hahaha, that's interesting. For some reason I had thought that no matter what you could only bring in ONE ALLY. Oh well, I kinda figured that you meant Grakk but I just wanted to make sure. Thanks!
Dalton Onestone 01-26-05, 11:18 AM	Well, I've fixed both Kwerrock and Ringelhut with respect to the spell memorization thing. I think they're legal now. I even put in default tactics. With the snow around here, I guess there's a theoretical chance I might be knocked offline.
Jindl 01-26-05, 12:38 PM	re PoA - I've been dredging through the original CO tournament thead looking for the discussion. I can't locate the exact place it that the discussion took place while search isn't working, but I do remember the outcome - PoA was houseruled to be limited to the HD of the target for the purposes of the Collesium. This led to the retirement of Jindl's infamous Iku Rex who was built around the concept and was polymorphed into a Bearded Devel at Level 3. Iku also took the +1LA hit for being an outsider in order to claim the +5 kingdom bonus. One of these days we have got to collect all these old obscure rulings together. Yes, that was the houserule. I think I voted against that houserule, as it directly violates the Core rules, but that was the decision. I agree that we need to collect all of these rules together (and revisit a few). FYI: It was a Horned Devil (aka. Cornugon). 15 HD of nasty... Retiring Iku Rex wasn't that bad. He ended up being the prototype for Aku, who was a much more powerful build, IMHO. -Jindl
Ayatoshi 01-26-05, 12:53 PM	Ok so no Astral Deva Aasimar... ok then another question... If I have a blade conceled through Sleight of hand what happens when I attack the defender? is he denied Dex or something would sneak attack apply?
Ayatoshi 01-26-05, 01:03 PM	What if I draw a conceled dagger using sleight of Hand and then throw it how would the attack work out?
T'Var 01-26-05, 01:21 PM	What if I draw a conceled dagger using sleight of Hand and then throw it how would the attack work out? If we were using other books i.e. Complete warrior there would be a chance (with the correct feats) to gain sneak attack dmg for such an action. but since we are not there are no bonuses except some style points for such an attack
Ayatoshi 01-26-05, 01:24 PM	If we were using other books i.e. Complete warrior there would be a chance (with the correct feats) to gain sneak attack dmg for such an action. but since we are not there are no bonuses except some style points for such an attack So using Sleight of Hand has no effect upon the attack?
T'Var 01-26-05, 01:27 PM	So using Sleight of Hand has no effect upon the attack? By core rules SoH has no effect on an attack correct
Kaigan 01-26-05, 02:07 PM	I think it might work if you had Improved feint, and quick draw. So you could use SoH to quick draw a dagger, feint as a move action, and throw. You would get sneak attack to that, I believe. I could be completely wrong too.
Pitlords 01-26-05, 02:08 PM	First of all, we are absolutely astonished (and happy!) about the number of characters! This is much more than we expected but it is a great thing! However, it also has a bad side of the coin. As it seems, we won't have enough pitlords for all the fights this week, and I am not sure if it gets better once quests are broadly available. Therefore, we came up with some things to compensate for this. There will be a new tag: [...out (no pitlord)]. Of course, it would be unfair to roll out someone who pitlords <max> fights so we will take this into account. The number of fights you are going to moderate determines the number of your characters who will fight for sure. So if someone moderates 2 fights, he can be sure that 2 of his readied characters will be paired. Going on a quest will cost 1 credit per week. The "per week" might change to "per quest" later when we have more pitlords or multiplayer quests are enabled but for now it is a necessary step because 1 quester ties down 1 pitlord. The current questers (LLMadCow and Huan) are exempt from this cost, of course. We are aware that there is little you can do with credits atm, but this will definately change within the next weeks so collecting them is no waste. Playing higher ECL creatures, custom spells and custom items, and many other things will all be available by paying credits. Still, the best solution would be to get more people to pitlord. If anyone of you can pitlord another fight, please write a PM to this account. It allows another 2 gladiators to fight this week.
Pitlords 01-26-05, 02:18 PM	Here is a rules update regarding the crafting of items, though it mainly concers scrolls. It's a pretty illogical distinction between taking 6 days to scribe 6 scrolls of Sleep, but only 1 day to scribe a single scroll of 6 Sleeps. So from now on, you can scribe as many scrolls as you want to as long as it doesn't exceed 1000 gp Marketprice. Edit: Pittbull +1 credit for taking over Ayatoshi's fight. Also, Rayos vs Sokai's outcome was changed. Sindorin, please remember this.
Sindorin 01-26-05, 03:11 PM	*sigh* understood ;)
T'Var 01-26-05, 03:15 PM	Edit: Pittbull +1 credit for taking over Ayatoshi's fight. Hey dont for me!! i ran Ayatoshi's other fight hmmphff
SnarkHunter 01-26-05, 05:09 PM	First of all, we are absolutely astonished (and happy!) about the number of characters! This is much more than we expected but it is a great thing! However, it also has a bad side of the coin. As it seems, we won't have enough pitlords for all the fights this week, and I am not sure if it gets better once quests are broadly available. Therefore, we came up with some things to compensate for this. There will be a new tag: [...out (no pitlord)]. Of course, it would be unfair to roll out someone who pitlords <max> fights so we will take this into account. The number of fights you are going to moderate determines the number of your characters who will fight for sure. So if someone moderates 2 fights, he can be sure that 2 of his readied characters will be paired. Going on a quest will cost 1 credit per week. The "per week" might change to "per quest" later when we have more pitlords or multiplayer quests are enabled but for now it is a necessary step because 1 quester ties down 1 pitlord. The current questers (LLMadCow and Huan) are exempt from this cost, of course. We are aware that there is little you can do with credits atm, but this will definately change within the next weeks so collecting them is no waste. Playing higher ECL creatures, custom spells and custom items, and many other things will all be available by paying credits. Still, the best solution would be to get more people to pitlord. If anyone of you can pitlord another fight, please write a PM to this account. It allows another 2 gladiators to fight this week. Hmmmmmmm, sign me up for 2 fights then. And could we request who gets to fight? I'd defintly like Rose and the Buddha to go, but best case scenario would be all of them :).
Snommelp 01-26-05, 05:11 PM	As it seems, we won't have enough pitlords for all the fights this week If it makes things any easier, I have no plan of readying Tara or Ala'andor this week, so I will have only 1 active PC.
One_Winged_Angel 01-26-05, 05:32 PM	First of all, we are absolutely astonished (and happy!) about the number of characters! This is much more than we expected but it is a great thing! However, it also has a bad side of the coin. As it seems, we won't have enough pitlords for all the fights this week, and I am not sure if it gets better once quests are broadly available. Therefore, we came up with some things to compensate for this. There will be a new tag: [...out (no pitlord)]. Of course, it would be unfair to roll out someone who pitlords <max> fights so we will take this into account. The number of fights you are going to moderate determines the number of your characters who will fight for sure. So if someone moderates 2 fights, he can be sure that 2 of his readied characters will be paired. Going on a quest will cost 1 credit per week. The "per week" might change to "per quest" later when we have more pitlords or multiplayer quests are enabled but for now it is a necessary step because 1 quester ties down 1 pitlord. The current questers (LLMadCow and Huan) are exempt from this cost, of course. We are aware that there is little you can do with credits atm, but this will definately change within the next weeks so collecting them is no waste. Playing higher ECL creatures, custom spells and custom items, and many other things will all be available by paying credits. Still, the best solution would be to get more people to pitlord. If anyone of you can pitlord another fight, please write a PM to this account. It allows another 2 gladiators to fight this week. I can pitlord again! Max number of fights! By goodness, I'll have that ECL character! Ph33r my l33t Pitlording skllz! ...BTW, I'm opening a discussion thread soon. Feel free to drop by.
Pitlords 01-26-05, 07:37 PM	Hey dont for me!! i ran Ayatoshi's other fight hmmphff ...and T'Var gets one :cookie: too PS: When I said a quest costs 1 credit per week, I meant this is in addition to the character being considered active. So if you have 3 arena characters and 1 quest character you have to pay credits: 4 (active PCs) -2 (free PCs) +1 (quest) = 3 credits. If your quest character is the only active character this week, you still have to pay 1 credit: 1 (active PC) -2 (free PCs) = 0 credits +1 (quest) = 1 credit
Solmund 01-26-05, 08:36 PM	so wait, how many active characters can we have? :confused:
Snommelp 01-26-05, 08:46 PM	so wait, how many active characters can we have? :confused: As many as you want. However, for each character over 2 that is active, you have to pay one credit a week, which means you have to run fights in order to earn credits.
Solmund 01-26-05, 09:52 PM	:D yay! so now i can have a cleric fighting as well! :D
Snommelp 01-26-05, 10:00 PM	You can indeed. I may bring my own cleric out of retirement soon, as well. Or, rather, not retirement but the aftershock of being kidnapped by a lich, having half of his soul channeled into a magic weapon, then being saved by that same weapon when it attacked the lich and destroyed the cavernous compound. Poor boy will probably be scarred for life... and he's definitely going to want to find that weapon eventually, even though he doesn't know anything about it, except that it's got part of his soul in it.
Naerdaloth 01-27-05, 10:39 AM	What is the DC to craft poison?
T'Var 01-27-05, 10:41 AM	What is the DC to craft poison? 10+the posions DC
SnarkHunter 01-27-05, 05:36 PM	Just wanted to mention that anyone intrested in going on a quest should post it here, even if they already posted about it 2 weeks ago. Just say what character (plus a link) and what it is the character is looking for. Any RP additions you care to add in can only help your chances...
Kaigan 01-27-05, 06:06 PM	Just wanted to mention that anyone intrested in going on a quest should post it here, even if they already posted about it 2 weeks ago. Just say what character (plus a link) and what it is the character is looking for. Any RP additions you care to add in can only help your chances... That goes for me too. I'm going to be starting a quest, so please post a quest for your characters, with RP. Preferably by friday.
Snommelp 01-27-05, 06:44 PM	Cedric Fischer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5186371) would like to hunt some undead creatures. The reason behind this hunt is this: some time before Living Gladius began, Cedric was kidnapped by a lich who then siphoned part of Cedric's soul into a magical weapon. The weapon killed the lich and presumably was destroyed as well, but now Cedric is determined to find that weapon, and he thinks the best place to start right now is hunting down any nearby ghosts or ghoulies.
Pitlords 01-27-05, 06:52 PM	Please keep in mind that from now on all Quests cost 1 credit a week, in addition to the character being considered active (which might cause additional credit costs depending on how many other characters of yours are active in a given week). This restricts Quests to those who contribute to the CoCo by pitlording fights. SnarkHunter, Kaigan, and any other Questlord will earn 2 credits a week, for 3 weeks.
T'Var 01-27-05, 07:32 PM	Zactor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5180446&postcount=60) would like to come to terms with the Draconic dreams he has been having eventually finding the truth that he has Black Dragon blood in his veins (PrC Dragon Disciple beginning)
Solmund 01-27-05, 08:55 PM	when do i find i out who i fight? :confused:
cellardweller 01-27-05, 09:27 PM	when do i find i out who i fight? :confused: Pairings are the 4th post of the Characters thread
Snommelp 01-28-05, 12:18 AM	when do i find i out who i fight? :confused: Also, check the Fights of the Week thread. There's usually helpful, or at least interesting, things going on there.
Snommelp 01-28-05, 01:58 AM	Hmm... I just noticed that Alchemists have to be spellcasters to craft anything... after this fight, I would like to switch Snomm's ranks in Craft: Alchemy over to Spot. Is this alright?
Beldin 01-28-05, 02:34 AM	yes, it is ;) .
Pitlords 01-29-05, 06:29 AM	We are slowly beginning to reopen the ECL 4 league. That means you can start to submit your new ECL 4 characters if any but they won't be active until the first LG characters hit lvl 4 (in 1-1/2 weeks). Newly created ECL 4 characters begin with... 6300 XP 5700 Gold
Dalton Onestone 01-29-05, 12:10 PM	There are some old posts in the maps thread that have me confused. What's this about four possible starting positions? Anything else that prevents win init = win fight?
Caterane 01-29-05, 12:22 PM	There are some old posts in the maps thread that have me confused. What's this about four possible starting positions? Anything else that prevents win init = win fight? Ash and I are aware that this has been and still is a problem. Sooner or later we will definately do something against the significance of winning initiative but for now we have too much new things already and we don't want to overwhelm the CoCo community. This has been discussed in the past and random (secret) starting positions were one suggestion to make initiative less important and outcome deciding but there were other good suggestions aswell. We will open this to discussion when the time has come.
Dalton Onestone 01-29-05, 12:36 PM	Ash and I are aware that this has been and still is a problem. Sooner or later we will definately do something against the significance of winning initiative but for now we have too much new things already and we don't want to overwhelm the CoCo community. Interesting. I've been assuming that Improved Initiative was an absolute must-have feat for every character, somewhere in the build. No rush actually implementing them, but are there any other likely rules changes we should expect?
Caterane 01-29-05, 02:28 PM	No rush actually implementing them, but are there any other likely rules changes we should expect? Anyone using my character sheet must pay a tribute of 1 credit per week ;)
Snommelp 01-29-05, 03:11 PM	Interesting. I've been assuming that Improved Initiative was an absolute must-have feat for every character, somewhere in the build. Nah, Improved Initiative isn't that important. It looks like having a mount is, though. Quick show of hands: how many people have beaten a mounted opponent without having a mount themselves?
Dalton Onestone 01-29-05, 03:18 PM	Nah, Improved Initiative isn't that important. It looks like having a mount is, though. Quick show of hands: how many people have beaten a mounted opponent without having a mount themselves? Kwerrock the Quiet's first bout was won after his horse was shot out from under him. But there were a lot of issues in how that fight was Pitlorded. Kwerrock was given some dubious charges; on the other hand, he was not given AoOs as his mounted opponent withdrew. Also, his Invisibility seemed to oddly fizzle before he had attacked anybody. But I could be wrong about all that; Ayatoshi's fights are so cryptic it isn't clear what really did or didn't happen. Now I'm wondering whether I was right to take Improved Initiative for Ringelhut. And Ringelhut himself is a replacement for Yagre, the change made as crafting rules changed back and forth. This is all sooo confusing ...
Dalton Onestone 01-29-05, 03:27 PM	Anyone using my character sheet must pay a tribute of 1 credit per week ;) Or you could pay me a credit for improving it!
Caterane 01-29-05, 03:31 PM	Sorry for the confusion but we have to pass that card on to Skip Williams who made a rule contrary to what the Errata says. As for the Standard Sheet (mine, atm :rolleyes: ) I think I'll begin right away with a real default sheet.
Dalton Onestone 01-29-05, 05:08 PM	Sorry for the confusion Nothing to apologize for!! As for the Standard Sheet (mine, atm :rolleyes: ) I think I'll begin right away with a real default sheet. There already is a default sheet over in the Real Games -- Setup Zone. Why not adapt that one? As for the crafting thing, and the mounted combat questions, and many others -- it just illustrates that we need an extended FAQ, with links to where these issues have been debated in the past. Most of what I, as a newcomer, ask is stuff that's been decided before. Although it seems we still don't have consensus on what happens when a mounted gladiator gets Mirror Image cast on him ...
Jindl 01-29-05, 05:51 PM	Although it seems we still don't have consensus on what happens when a mounted gladiator gets Mirror Image cast on him ... Ashenai's response was the best I've heard. Basically, he said that mirror image works normally for the rider, but does not provide any benefit to the mount. -Jindl
Pitlords 01-29-05, 07:43 PM	The new Default Character Sheet (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5179898#post5179898) is finished. You can find it by following the link, or later by scrolling down in the characters thread; below the arena map. I tried to make it as newbie friendly as possible (and appealing to Dalton so that he uses this one :D). Edit: Meh. Link doesn't work and I don't know why. Well, you know where to find it. Just scroll down.
Dalton Onestone 01-29-05, 07:52 PM	@Cat http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3169575&postcount=6 This is the one I was referring to. I bet you could come up with a great default sheet by hybridizing that one and yours. EDIT: Upon review, it's a trivial and stupid character sheet. Never mind.
Sindorin 01-30-05, 01:31 AM	I am not sure how to go about this but... The whole deal with our pc's possibly not being paired disturbs me. I have friends whom I have shown the way here that won't necessarily understand. They also are trying to learn the game as well, and wouldn't be able to if they weren't paired. Wouldn't it be best to say that 'no matter what you will have at least one pc paired'? I advertise a lot for this place saying that it is the best place to learn (as i have been told)... I don't know. It just doesn't seem right, there has to be a way EVERYONE can get an active character per week at least.
Jindl 01-30-05, 01:40 AM	I am not sure how to go about this but... The whole deal with our pc's possibly not being paired disturbs me. I have friends whom I have shown the way here that won't necessarily understand. They also are trying to learn the game as well, and wouldn't be able to if they weren't paired. Wouldn't it be best to say that 'no matter what you will have at least one pc paired'? I advertise a lot for this place saying that it is the best place to learn (as i have been told)... I don't know. It just doesn't seem right, there has to be a way EVERYONE can get an active character per week at least. You do realize that all PC's were paired this week, right? The issue is lack of pitlording participation, relative to the number of fights. Of course, as time progresses and the gladiators spread out among the levels, there will be more opportunities for odd gladiators to sit out. This reduces the number of fights and the number of pitlords needed. At the same time, ECL characters become available, requiring credits, which raises Pitlord participation. Adding multi-gladiator matches and quests improves the pitlord/fight ratio even further. So, no worries then. Everything should be fine. And just in case it isn't, we could simply make it a 2 week pairing, so that each pitlord could handle more fights. -Jindl
Ashenai 01-30-05, 04:58 AM	Newbies will always get paired. A newbie is defined as someone who's had an active character here for 2 weeks or less. After 2 weeks, you're entitled to pitlord fights, so it works out nicely.
Pitlords 01-30-05, 11:58 AM	Now that we've seen how arena fights seem to go in Living Gladius, we'd like to ask everyone's opinion about something. It is becoming obvious that for ECL 3 characters, horses (especially heavy warhorses) are a huge boon. There have been several battles where a gladiator would have won easily, but was simply crushed into a paste by his opponent's horse. Our question is fairly open-ended: what do you think about this? Do you feel it is unbalanced? If yes, what sort of measures would you suggest? We are currently pondering making horses drain xp/gold like other allies. At ECL 3, this would mean that if you win, your horse would cost you 225 xp and 225 gold for that fight. If you lose, it would cost 75 xp and 75 gold. What do you think of this? Different issue: the arena itself. I don't think anyone is terribly fond of 1st turn kills, especially those who have had it happen to them. They make initiative ridiculously important, and make one of the gladiators' tactics completely irrelevant. We are currently thinking about two solutions to this problem: 1) Variable starting positions. Gladiators could choose their own starting postions (within certain limits, of course) and include them in their tactics. 2) Change the Arena. Mostly, we're thinking of adding more cover, walls, things like that. Probably fairly minor changes (we don't want a really elaborate map like many of the ones in the Maps thread). Thoughts?
Solmund 01-30-05, 12:13 PM	i say the gladiator with a horse can only use it when he is facing another gladiator with a horse, that way it can be a (somewhat) fair fight.
T'Var 01-30-05, 12:19 PM	anyone can pay the cash for a horse to give an advantage. or to equal the advantage out feats help those who take them. and even though handle animal isnt class for everyone, its only a DC 10 to have an animal attack 50% chance for a move action I think it is utterly insain to have an animal drain xp let alone Gold? what the horse wants to get paid also? and if the horse gets xp I damn well better be able to advance him in HD when he gets enough to level the talk is we want reality that a campain gives...Ive never had my horse in a campain take 225 gp from me because i won a fight
Caterane 01-30-05, 12:24 PM	@T'Var: well, you cannot deny that having a 4 HD ally is better than not having one. You cannot deny that some gain more out of a horse than others. You also cannot force someone to buy a horse just to be competable. And finally, we don't want it to be a fight of horse vs horse with gladiator ally. And 225 gp out of 900 is not much for something that greatly helps you in winning a fight.
T'Var 01-30-05, 12:30 PM	@T'Var: well, you cannot deny that having a 4 HD ally is better than not having one. You cannot deny that some gain more out of a horse than others. You also cannot force someone to buy a horse just to be competable. And finally, we don't want it to be a fight of horse vs horse with gladiator ally. And 225 gp out of 900 is not much for something that greatly helps you in winning a fight. I dont deny it at all, i fully admit having a 4hd allys is a very large plus in the arena. and i agree you cannot force someone to buy a horse but that doesnt mean you have the right to restrict someone from doing to be 'fair' fights airnt about 'fair' they are about expoliting any weakness you can find. and the fact of paying 225 every fight is like you telling me i have to 're-masterwork' my long sword every fight thas is simply and quite plainly spoken Dumb whats next removing Riding dogs because their trip ability can greatly change the effect of a fight too.....where does it end in the name of 'fairness'
Pitlords 01-30-05, 12:34 PM	T'Var: the XP and gold wouldn't go to the horse. It's simply lost. It would model the fact that a gladiator with a horse is a higher CR challenge than one without, and thus would get fewer rewards from defeating a lower CR opponent. Naturally, we would also give an XP/gold boost to people who fight against gladiators with allies. I won't go into the details here, but suffice it to say that if two gladiators both have horses (or any other allies), and fight each other, they'd get exactly the same rewards as two gladiators who fight each other without allies would. In effect, the penalty for having an ally is "cancelled out" by the fact that your opponent has an ally too. But, a gladiator who is willing to fight without an ally against a gladiator who does have one should get extra XP/gold for the added challenge... this is, after all, what the rewards system is about. Tougher opponent, greater rewards. Similarly, a gladiator who fights with an ally against an opponent who doesn't have one is clearly taking fewer risks, and should thus get fewer rewards.
Caterane 01-30-05, 12:36 PM	The longsword example is a bad example; this has something to do with equipment and the balanced counter to that would be to force a wizard to rescribe his spells. No, we're talking about allies. That is an additional character who fights on your side thus makes it easier for you to win than for someone without an ally. Likewise, fighting a gladiator and a horse is more challenging and should be rewarded appropriately; see Ash's post.
T'Var 01-30-05, 12:40 PM	T'Var: the XP and gold wouldn't go to the horse. It's simply lost. It would model the fact that a gladiator with a horse is a higher CR challenge than one without, and thus would get fewer rewards from defeating a lower CR opponent. Naturally, we would also give an XP/gold boost to people who fight against gladiators with allies. I won't go into the details here, but suffice it to say that if two gladiators both have horses (or any other allies), and fight each other, they'd get exactly the same rewards as two gladiators who fight each other without allies would. In effect, the penalty for having an ally is "cancelled out" by the fact that your opponent has an ally too. But, a gladiator who is willing to fight without an ally against a gladiator who does have one should get extra XP/gold for the added challenge... this is, after all, what the rewards system is about. Tougher opponent, greater rewards. Similarly, a gladiator who fights with an ally against an opponent who doesn't have one is clearly taking fewer risks, and should thus get fewer rewards. Ok so then a druid is auto screwed because she can come into with an animal companion...which would raise there CR....Or how about a paladin who gets a special mount shall these base classes get penilized as well because it isnt 'fair'
Beldin 01-30-05, 12:46 PM	The wizards familiar, the Druid's and Ranger's and the Paladin's mount are part of theit CR. The problem is the extra heavy Warhorse to do the killing.
Caterane 01-30-05, 12:50 PM	Class allies do not suck xp and gold (but count against the max number of allies you can bring in) so no one is screwed.
Ashenai 01-30-05, 12:51 PM	The wizards familiar, the Druid's and Ranger's and the Paladin's mount are part of theit CR. Yep, exactly. The problem is the extra heavy Warhorse to do the killing. Right. Wizards, Sorcerers, Druids, Rangers, and Paladins get allies that are class abilities. They are a "part of the character", in a way, and are factored into the power of the class. Warhorses, on the other hand, simply add a great big power boost to any ECL 3 character, for a paltry cost (400 gold).
T'Var 01-30-05, 01:05 PM	well is obvious that both GMs want this so why have the discussion? put it to a vote of the elders and be done with it So shall we outlaw guard and riding dogs also Ooo and light war horses too, in that fact get rid of all horses, and those who have ride by attack mouned combat and all feats and skills animal and ride baced should be able to totally remake there charectors for free. if we do one we MUST do the others in the act of 'fair'ness
Dalton Onestone 01-30-05, 01:11 PM	Regarding the arena -- I think adding more complication to the map will just lead to more cases where the pitlording is significantly suboptimal. Optimizing tactics with relationship to even the current map is HARD. Varying starting positions probably wouldn't be enough to solve the problem; rather, it would just postpone it to later rounds. Another approach is to limit what can be done on the first round by the person who wins init. Maybe even limit it to buffing and movement. That could be too much of a nerfing of the first turn, however. Yet another option is to put a magical barrier on being detected AT ALL in the first round, but only if you stay on your side of the arena. Potential problem -- the init winner could still ride over to the other side in the second round, say THERE YOU ARE, and start shooting. Another approach, which can be combined with some of the others, is to say that Core rules notwithstanding, the init loser is NOT flatfooted for the first round. At the low character levels which I know about, it's the flatfootedness that's a big part of the problem. End flatfootedness, give one safe round for Mage Armor to be cast, and that fragile wizard's AC might go up by 6 or so. At that point it would take pretty good archery for an instawin. ------------------------------ As for horses -- if you have a fragile character who never could survive melee, your heavy warhorse is your best friend. I absolutely agree that it's a problem, with tactics getting heavily centered on using your equine ally. One solution is to give everybody a Protection From Horses, Dogs, and Pegasi AC +10 buff and move on from there ... ------------------------------ One metarule I propose is that whenever there's a rule change, let people go back and change their character sheets even if they used some particular feature already. It's tough enough to design a character for the actual rules; designing one in anticipation of future rules changes is really difficult.
Snommelp 01-30-05, 01:17 PM	It seems perfectly logical to me that a horse would take gold like any other ally. We are trying somewhat to simulate a campaign here, yes? In a campaign, the DM expects you to pay for stabling and food for the horse, which can add up to a pretty hefty sum, especially if there is only one decent stable in the town. EDIT: Also, you must admit that having a horse is a huge advantage. We changed the spellcasting system because in the old CoCo anyone who wasn't a mage was dead if he fought a mage; now, anyone without a mount is dead if he faces a mounted character. It's gotten to the point where I was considering buying a horse for Tara, a character focused on sneak attacks, just to even the playing field. That should tell you that something isn't right.
Caterane 01-30-05, 01:18 PM	T'Var, please. We don't want to punish or screw anyone and you can be sure that we try our best to make it as fair and balanced for everyone here as possible. Ash and I have discussed this for hours now, and we wanted to hear additional opinions; perhaps someone has a good suggestion. I haven't heard a suggestion from you so far, nor anything that counters our very good arguments; only that you don't agree with it. Again: (1) It is not balanced as it is now. A 4 HD ally at lvl 3 is a strong and outcome deciding addition, something that should be reflected in the rewards because it makes your fight easier. (2) We do not screw any build, neither the druid/paladin who does not need to pay XP, nor any mounted build who will still be able to enter with a heavy warhorse. He just levels a bit slower. And vice versa, those who fight alone against 2 opponoments level faster if they win.
Jindl 01-30-05, 01:24 PM	Please allow me to interject a few comments: 1. On purchased allies - We must allow some sort of mount for a medium sized creature, because at 3rd level most mounted builds have spent 2 or more feats on mounted combat, and those feats would be utterly wasted if they can't use a mount. However, it is completely unfair for a character to have to spend 400 gp on a mount and then get much less xp and gold for winning/losing the fight. In a campaign, it is very common for a 2nd level character to have a heavy warhorse, especially if it is a mounted build, and that character still gets the same xp and gold split as the rest of his party. As for referring to stabling/feed costs of mounts, that is only a few sp per day, much less than the 225 gp per fight suggested by the GM's. So I think limiting this in the CoCo is both unfair to mounted builds in general and greatly deviating from true DnD campaigns. However, I cannot deny that having a 4 HD ally is a powerful advantage in an ECL 3 fight. That's part of why I made the suggestion (weeks ago on the FAQ Update Thread) to limit purchased allies to be the same HD as the ECL of the purchasing PC. That would limit ECL 3 characters to 3 HD allies (light warhorses), which do NOT reduce your winnings, which I think is a much better compromise. 2. On the importance of initiative - I think this is an issue of whether we want the CoCo to be true to DnD rules or whether we want it to be balanced. For those of you who think that initiative should not be important, I've got news for you. In DnD combat, inititiative is one of the most important single traits of your PC, second only to perhaps movement. The arena has always demostrated this well. And so have the CoCo adventures. Just look at the WLD. Because the 3rd level cleric lost initiative, he almost was killed by 2 orcs in the very first combat. The smaller the starting range and the less cover/concealment, the more important initiative becomes. However, increasing starting ranges and increasing cover/concealment merely makes build that rely on spellcasting and stealth stronger. Shorter starting ranges, or less cover/concealment work to the advantage of non-spell casters and non-stealth characters, whether they are mounted builds, archers, or charging barbarians. I think that initiative must remain as important a facet of combat as the Core rules indicate. 3. On changing the arena - Having just spoke about how cover/concealment and starting ranges shift the balance of power between builds, I want to say that I think our current arena is very well balanced. There is intermittent cover, without preventing charging. Most objects are only 5 ft high, allowing flyers to move with greater ease (as they should.) And the large central obstacle prevents most one round kills. At first I liked the idea of random starting positions, but when you consider how much that shortens the range between combatants, you realize that is a bad thing. If your enemy is in the western starting position (currently marked A) and you randomly are located in a new northern starting position (mirrors to A along the y-axis), then you are much closer to your enemy. I think this is a bad thing. However, I do think that the recent lack of cover at the midpoint of a light warhorses double move diagonally (pointed out by Einzelgaenger), is a problem. Archers should not get a full attack before their opponents get to act. This is easily solved by adding a rock to intercept that line (perhaps at +/- 19, 0). This rock next to the starting position would provide all characters some cover until their first action, and is, IMO the simplest and best compromise on the inititiative issue. -Jindl
Dalton Onestone 01-30-05, 01:31 PM	Does charging really work in the arena vs. opponents who don't want to melee? I've assumed one can always end one's turn behind some sort of cover. EDIT: I have already won one bout by charging, but frankly I wasn't sure why. I didn't push the issue because it was a hopeless bout for my opponent, who hadn't really finished his character when he readied her, or else is tanking all his early round matches to save gold for some future magic item. In fact, I think she was unmounted ...
Jindl 01-30-05, 01:39 PM	Does charging really work in the arena vs. opponents who don't want to melee? I've assumed one can always end one's turn behind some sort of cover. EDIT: I have already won one bout by charging, but frankly I wasn't sure why. I didn't push the issue because it was a hopeless bout for my opponent, who hadn't really finished his character when he readied her, or else is tanking all his early round matches to save gold for some future magic item. In fact, I think she was unmounted ... Since most charger's use a lance (10 ft reach), it is possible to charge someone who has cover behind a 5x5 ft rock. They still have a +4 ac from cover, but you might still hit. The arena prevents charging long distances by intersposing obstacles to prevent straight line charges. Agile and fast chargers may be able to jump some of the 5 ft high rocks, but the columns are unavoidable. And there is no squeezing on a charge (since squeezing counts as hampered movement, which prevents running/charging), so there is no way to get by this. In short, a smart opponent can make it difficult to charge them. Depending on the relative size, movment speeds, (and if flying manueverabilities) of the combatants, charging may be difficult or impossible. However in most fights, it is possible, just not easy to do every round.
T'Var 01-30-05, 02:21 PM	T'Var, please. We don't want to punish or screw anyone and you can be sure that we try our best to make it as fair and balanced for everyone here as possible. Ash and I have discussed this for hours now, and we wanted to hear additional opinions; perhaps someone has a good suggestion. I haven't heard a suggestion from you so far, nor anything that counters our very good arguments; only that you don't agree with it. Again: (1) It is not balanced as it is now. A 4 HD ally at lvl 3 is a strong and outcome deciding addition, something that should be reflected in the rewards because it makes your fight easier. (2) We do not screw any build, neither the druid/paladin who does not need to pay XP, nor any mounted build who will still be able to enter with a heavy warhorse. He just levels a bit slower. And vice versa, those who fight alone against 2 opponoments level faster if they win. firstly i dont see a problem with how things are now...and note more than half of my charectors do not have any form of war horse. and only one has a heavy war horse. Its not the fault of the mounted that he is mounted. he shouldnt be punished for it the cost in xp and gp is very unfair as are the limitations you put on anyone who wants to be a mounted warrior. you punish someone with mounted combat or any mounted feats. and since we are talking about changing rules again...how many casters/manifesters have won vs non. Not to sure but it looks like as i pointed out they are getting slaughtered unless they pay a fortune a fight it just seems to me that the strong are being forably weakened to make things fair for lesser builds
Naerdaloth 01-30-05, 02:32 PM	edit: I agree with Jindl, having a limit of the HD of a purchased ally equal to ECL sounds pretty fair My feeling is: The horse is listed as equipment in the PHB/SRD. Equipment, next to a beltpouch and smokesticks. There is no tax for owning a longsword or a tanglefoot bag, why a horse? It's all considered equipment, right? The horse just happens to be a very useful piece of equipment. Anyone has the ability to buy one if they desire. That said, I don't see it as unbalanced. Plus they are so easy to avoid. Buy a potion of hide from animals for 50gp if you want. And once characters gain like 2-3 levels, it is no longer anything more than fodder for a single spell or sword swipe. A character specially designed to utilize a mount however would find use in it, but at the cost of feats and skill points. Unlike other allies that normally drain XP, such as cohorts and special handle animal companions, they cost GP, plus (and i think this is a big one): theres no room for advancement. Cohorts advance as the character gain levels, and handled animals grow as their masters get more ranks in the skill. That makes them powerful allies and able to consistently grow and be useful. A horse however does not advance, it remains a lowly animal that is soon outgrown and left in the dust (reiterated from above) Another point I just thought of that belongs somewherein the first section of this post but I don't know where: Isn't the gold a character has considered part of his CR, at least in COCO where its all standardized that way? If someone decides to spend their gold on a horse, why should that be penalized additionally
Ashenai 01-30-05, 02:43 PM	Well, I believe Jindl brought up some excellent points. We've been discussing them with Cat, and we're not really done yet. I just thought I'd share what we have so far. Regarding T'Var's point, "well is obvious that both GMs want this so why have the discussion?": the fact of the matter is that Cat and I often don't see something the same way. This ally issue is one of them, which is why we thought it would be edifying to see what people thought. Perhaps they could come up with a solution that was better than anything we thought of. And while neither of us is perfectly happy with Jindl's proposal as-is either, there are definitely elements of it that we're thinking of incorporating. Whether it's only heavy warhorses that are the problem, and to what degree, is something we're still trying to figure out. Another of these disagreements is the initiative issue. As people may or may not know, Cat has always been interested in balance over simulating a campaign, while Jindl is quite the opposite. I'm somewhere in the middle. With initiative, however, I believe making it somewhat less important would help both balance and a "campaign-like" feel. How many campaigns have you guys played in that went like this? "DM: You are riding along in the mountains. Suddenly, from behind a nearby peak, a pegasus rider flies out, and shoots three flaming shocking frost arrows at you. You die." Yet this is exactly the situation we have right now. In a real campaign, initiative is important, but (for example) if you can hide from your opponent, or figure out where he's going to attack from with divination magic, then you can negate the edge a higher-init "alpha strike" build has. Many builds have no practical methods of protecting themselves while flatfooted, and yet these builds are far from useless in a real campaign! On the other hand, Jindl is correct; initiative is important, and should remain so. His idea of adding a stone helps somewhat, but not too much; it still only provides normal cover (or improved, if we're using that), and does nothing for a Large creature. I have ideas, but no real solutions. Which is why I'd love to hear more input from you guys.
Beldin 01-30-05, 02:43 PM	I believe Jindl's suggestion to add these 4 rocks is a good sollution against the archer - until they get even faster mounts. But then the flatfooted defender has more hp. The warhorses which are send by the handle animal skill are to strong - not those used as mount. Again Jindl's suggestion sounds ok. A light warhorse would not hinder a mounted gladiator much and it would not have the power to win a fight alone.
Ashenai 01-30-05, 03:00 PM	My feeling is: The horse is listed as equipment in the PHB/SRD. Equipment, next to a beltpouch and smokesticks. There is no tax for owning a longsword or a tanglefoot bag, why a horse? It's all considered equipment, right? The horse just happens to be a very useful piece of equipment. That's a fair point. However, in the PHB you can buy a horse. You don't get to buy a magic Self-Ressurecting Horse that you can keep from level 1 to 20 and use in every single fight of your career if you like. Sometimes horses die, sometimes they have to be left behind because they don't fit in the dungeon, and so on. CoCo horses face none of these dangers. That's why they're overpowered. And not having the horses ressurrect is not the answer either; that'll just lead to people being nasty and deliberately slaughtering their opponent's horses to be mean. Stuff like that happened in the old CoCo before rules were made to prevent it, and it's not conductive to fun gaming. Anyone has the ability to buy one if they desire. Also true. However, just because everyone has access to something does not make it balanced. Something is balanced if it's not a clearly worthless or a clearly worthwhile choice; rather's it's a meaningful decision. Horses are currently not a meaningful decision: characters with horses have a huge advantage over characters without. Again, making horses (and other bought animals) suck XP and gold should not be seen as punishment. If an ECL 4 character defeats an ECL 3, he gets less XP than if the ECL 3 build had won, yet no one sees that as "punishing the higher levels for being more effective", do they? That said, I don't see it as unbalanced. Plus they are so easy to avoid. Buy a potion of hide from animals for 50gp if you want. And once characters gain like 2-3 levels, it is no longer anything more than fodder for a single spell or sword swipe. That's a bit of an exaggeration... I don't think there are many ECL 6 characters who can kill a heavy warhorse with a "single spell or sword strike". But sure, they become weaker at higher levels. Then again, at higher levels, people will probably get more powerful allies (griffons, pegasi, etc). Another point I just thought of that belongs somewherein the first section of this post but I don't know where: Isn't the gold a character has considered part of his CR, at least in COCO where its all standardized that way? If someone decides to spend their gold on a horse, why should that be penalized additionally Again, this is a good point, but it's ignoring the fact that CoCo horses are not really PHB horses, however much they might look like them. They are superhorses who cannot be permanently killed, and can accompany the character to every single fight of his career, for as long as he wants. and since we are talking about changing rules again...how many casters/manifesters have won vs non. Not to sure but it looks like as i pointed out they are getting slaughtered unless they pay a fortune a fight This is clearly false, and I suggest you take a look at Rook, Flower, Sivalyn, or Iminir Daeloth if you need counter-examples. Naturally, there are fights where the caster's player felt that winning the fight was supremely important, and spent a lot of money to ensure victory. This is, of course, their choice.
Snommelp 01-30-05, 03:06 PM	@ Naerdaloth: yes, anyone can buy a mount. However, for many builds it is impractical, since buying the mount means at the very least putting much-needed skill points into Handle Animal, since commanding a trained animal to act as trained is a DC 10 Handle Animal check and Handle Animal is a trained-only skill. Also, Hide From Animals only works until the first time you attack anything, so unless you plan on killing your opponent in one hit, you're going to need more than one of those potions. Suddenly the 50 gp per potion isn't such a small number. @ T'Var: the mounted combatant isn't being punished; all that's being said is that adding a mount adds to the DC of a character, and things should be adjusted accordingly. Also, it is too early to say that spellcasters are getting "slaughtered," especially since I've seen a few doing quite well. To put all of this another way, the only "nerfing" I see is in regards to when characters have passed well beyond the bounds of "willing suspension of disbelief."
Naerdaloth 01-30-05, 03:14 PM	That's true. I guess what makes things like this so controversial is that the "Core rules" were made to be balanced for a traditional campaign, which the COCO is not. Trying to modify rules that make gameplay balanced in the COCO is difficult, especially because most any change will take heat from some group, and the age old argument, "But the Core rules say its fair, who are we to change it?" Anyway, I guess horses fall under this category. Something should be done but making them drain such a high amount of gold and xp doesn't sound like the solution (see paragraph 2 of former post :p)
Snommelp 01-30-05, 03:35 PM	Here's a thought: rather than characters actually owning the horses, horses are rented for 1/4 of their price per week. Characters won't have to pay if they don't use the horse in a fight, and it simulates the possibility of having horses die on occasion and the need for them to be replaced.
Jindl 01-30-05, 03:38 PM	As you can see, our GM's are definately putting a lot of thought into this, which is a very good thing. There are a couple of points I wanted to interject as this discussion continues (mostly clarifications of my earlier points and some response to other's comments). On the other hand, Jindl is correct; initiative is important, and should remain so. His idea of adding a stone helps somewhat, but not too much; it still only provides normal cover (or improved, if we're using that), and does nothing for a Large creature. FYI: The way ranged cover is determined is from one corner of your space to all corners of your targets space. So Large creatures do still gain cover from the proposed 5x5 ft rock next to the starting position, since that rock interrupts lines to 2 of the large creature's corners. That's a bit of an exaggeration... I don't think there are many ECL 6 characters who can kill a heavy warhorse with a "single spell or sword strike". But sure, they become weaker at higher levels. Then again, at higher levels, people will probably get more powerful allies (griffons, pegasi, etc). I agree. A heavy warhorse remains a significant ally until you reach about 10th level or so. Even after its low AC/hps result in it dying from one attack, the extra mobility it provides its rider is still an enhancement of that rider. But its an enhancement that you spend 400 gp for. As for the more powerful allies you acquire later, either they are purchased for much more gp, OR they require time to train, feats to recruit, and reduce your winnings. And not having the horses ressurrect is not the answer either; that'll just lead to people being nasty and deliberately slaughtering their opponent's horses to be mean. Stuff like that happened in the old CoCo before rules were made to prevent it, and it's not conductive to fun gaming. But at the same time, you still suffer penalties from the death of other allies. People could easily be mean and target familiars and shadow companions. The death of a familiar or shadow companion will cost its master hundreds or even thousands of xp. (For example: If the Elder lost the fight and Bubo was slain, the Elder would most likely fail the Fort save. That would result in him actually losing 300 xp for participating in the fight, although he still gains 300 gp. This lost xp could even result in dropping a level, although the extra gp would result in having more wealth for his level than he should.) Perhaps having to pay something for the death of a purchased ally isn't such a bad thing, considering how much a benefit they can provide. After all, it would make it a meaninful decision on whether to bring it into a fight (probably a yes at low levels, but maybe a no at higher levels). @ Naerdaloth: yes, anyone can buy a mount. However, for many builds it is impractical, since buying the mount means at the very least putting much-needed skill points into Handle Animal, since commanding a trained animal to act as trained is a DC 10 Handle Animal check and Handle Animal is a trained-only skill. FYI (and Ash, I hope you see this because I think this mistake just happened in your Quest) - Handle Animal can be used untrained as a Charisma check to control (read: give a command or push) a domesticated (read: already trained) animal. But you cannot use Handle Animal to rear or train wild animals. So yes, you can tell your warhorse to Attack with a DC 10 Charisma check (as an untrained Handle Animal check). See the Handle Animal skill description. Again, making horses (and other bought animals) suck XP and gold should not be seen as punishment. If an ECL 4 character defeats an ECL 3, he gets less XP than if the ECL 3 build had won, yet no one sees that as "punishing the higher levels for being more effective", do they? I would mention is that 400 gp is a significant portion of a starting character's wealth. That money could have been spent on better weapons, more psionic tattoos, more powerful scrolls, etc. So the character that buys a heavy warhorse is weakening himself in another way. Do I think they are a good buy? Absolutely. I'm just pointing out that there is a trade-off to having one. This is why I don't think they should cost xp/gp from your winnings. Yes, an ECL 4 character should get less winnings for defeating an ECL 3 character. But a character who bought a heavy warhorse is not an ECL 4 character. He is an ECL 3 character with a different distribution of wealth. One last thing to consider (last for now, anyway :D) is that this problem pales in comparison to what we will see when people have enough money to buy bags of tricks and figurines of wondrous power. These items produce more powerful and greater numbers of allies than the purchased heavy warhorse can account for, and there's no reasonable way that using one of these items can reduce your winnings. So keep in mind that the heavy warhorse problem is only a problem at really low levels, and as such should be handled as simply as possible. I suggest limiting purchased mounts by ECL. Perhaps there are other suggestions that are better. Hopefully we can narrow it down quickly to just a couple of suggestions for the Elder's to vote on and the GM's to approve. -Jindl
Caterane 01-30-05, 03:46 PM	We should keep one thing in mind: the arena cannot be compared with a real campaign. We tried to simulate it in the past by warping and bending board rules in unnatural angles but everytime we succeeded on one end, we lost ground somewhere else. We should see the arena for what it is: a dome where two gladiators fight each other. I am aware that there's also a good number of members who try to test builds with regard to their real life campaign, a good point, and I think we finally succeeded in doing this ...not by further transforming the arena but by incorporating quests and the like. There are currently 2 test quests running who have used skills and rolls that the arena has never seen, and I don't think there will be a useless skill from now on. And Quests are just the beginning. We will later add campaigns and Special Events who also simulate a real campaign in a much superior way that the arena cannot hope to match. With that said, we should now focus on making the arena a fair and balanced enviroment for everyone. What does that mean concretely? It means, if Jindl thinks initiative is important in a real campaign (and I agree with him), then having a high initiative will definately give you a benefit in Quests, Campaigns, and Special Events, and also in the arena, but in the arena, we focus on making it fair and balanced so that the outcome doesn't solely depend on luck (modified by the difference in initiative). It means, that warhorses can be bought in a real campaign but are also subject to several restrictions like death and the inability to follow everywhere just to name a few, as you will see when you take your horse with you on Quests and Campaigns (imagine horse in WLD; it would've drowned with the ship). That is fine. That is balanced by the many variables of a dynamic campaign. In the arena however, heavy warhorses are too strong at lvl 3. We don't look at a real campaign here but what is best for the arena setting, and here we have a difference in power comparing PC vs PC+Warhorse. This must be fixed. I could bring dozens of other examples about the difference between the arena and a real campaign, and here in Living Gladius, where we effectively have something like real campaigns, we can finally clearly divide the two issues, and lay the balanced arena vs simulated campaign to rest, once and for all.
OdinTheReaper 01-30-05, 03:51 PM	I believe that owning a horse and having the advantage of a horse on your side is a tactic that the owner uses wisely. ANYONE CAN BUY A HORSE. Its not like its a huge advantage if everyone can buy one. Also if you dont have the money to buy one, who's decision was that? To me its all about tactics. I feel that spellcasters have an advantage because they can use spells and psychics can use psychic abilities, and now fighters have horses and things to ride on. If you are going against a person with a horse....KILL IT. How about that tactic. If you dont have one, get rid of theirs...i mean you should have something good that you bought(if not thats your fault). EXAMPLE: Potion of Hide From Animals 50gp. Hello there's a free pointer for everyone. Also if we have to put a cost on having horses then we have to put a cost on familiars as well, otherwise all you have to do is have a good attacking familiar, (which i have already faced in the arena and its not fun when they attack you). Se what i dont think some of you realize is that you almost never just tell your horse to go find him and attack, like people do with familiars...no you RIDE them. Should we make people use xp and gold to buy spells now to? or weapons? or abilities...even feats? If you do make people pay for using this, do not include xp, considering it takes forever to level up as is (well depending on the character of course). Also dont make it too much gold considering we dont get pots full of it when we win. I mean after replacing potions and scrolls and such sometimes you dont have much left over. And again if you are going to limit horses to having a cost, then the rule should apply to familiars AND cohorts as they are the same thing but horses you ride...you dont just tell them to bloody go and attack like familiars and cohorts. p.s. sorry im very stressed and im just annoyed by the fact that someone doesnt like one of the advantages i have when they can also have it themselves.
Naerdaloth 01-30-05, 03:52 PM	What if we made it so purchased mounts cant attack? That means they can still hold equipment and escort you around, but they can't be just used as an extra fighter. (which I think is where the unbalance comes in?) edit @ Odin: Cohorts already are established as draining 1/4 xp and gold. Plus familiars are a class feature, and are considered part of that character so are not affected. And familiars are all tinysized animals who a majority of couldnt tear through paper.. in what instance have you seen them attacking people?
Naerdaloth 01-30-05, 04:01 PM	Oh, another idea of a solution: Instead of constantly draining XP or gold, how about when they die you have to pay 1/4 of its price in gold and xp, or something?
Ashenai 01-30-05, 04:08 PM	FYI: The way ranged cover is determined is from one corner of your space to all corners of your targets space. So Large creatures do still gain cover from the proposed 5x5 ft rock next to the starting position, since that rock interrupts lines to 2 of the large creature's corners. I know about that rule, and I think it's exceedingly stupid. According to that rule, this Tarrasque: . . . . . . . . . . . T T T T T T # . . . A T T T T T T . . . . . T T T T T T . . . . . T T T T T T . . . . . T T T T T T . . . . . T T T T T T . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . has cover against the archer, while this Tarrasque . . . . . . . . . . . T T T T T T . . . . A T T T T T T # . . . . T T T T T T . . . . . T T T T T T . . . . . T T T T T T . . . . . T T T T T T . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . does not. FYI (and Ash, I hope you see this because I think this mistake just happened in your Quest) - Handle Animal can be used untrained as a Charisma check to control (read: give a command or push) a domesticated (read: already trained) animal. But you cannot use Handle Animal to rear or train wild animals. So yes, you can tell your warhorse to Attack with a DC 10 Charisma check (as an untrained Handle Animal check). See the Handle Animal skill description. Aye, my bad. Fixed this in my quest, thanks.
Arstimis 01-30-05, 04:08 PM	What if we made it so purchased mounts cant attack? That means they can still hold equipment and escort you around, but they can't be just used as an extra fighter. (which I think is where the unbalance comes in?) Its called a mule.
OdinTheReaper 01-30-05, 04:09 PM	@Naerdaloth: Sure but do the same for familiars and cohorts and not just the horses and mounts considering that you have to be close to attack with the horse which means it is not hard to get attacked (as you are right next to the guy). With a familiar/cohort they can freely attack on their own and have the owner just sit there while the familiar comes and attacks you. So sure you can do that, just do it with other allies too as it is only fair. Actually i think having a cohort/familiar is much better than having a mount...maybe not right now but in a few levels..you will be in a much better position than someone that strictly uses a warhorse or mount. I think i can definitely live with the fact that if a mount dies you have to pay X amount of gold to bring him back...that is not a bad idea. Oh and also i have seen a familiar attack someone......well actually it was Farore (your character) who sent Courage (the obviously non-cowardly dog) to attack me. Ummm..oh and i understand that familiars are part of the character (well you get what i mean) but almost all of them can still attack the opposing character without the character being with it like a mount. @jindl: I agree that this is only a slight problem at low levels. If you look back on past matches there are more powerful things to spend your money on than mounts like wonderous items and "bags of tricks". The buy back for ressurrection or whatever isnt a bad idea, i just wouldnt make it too costly.
Jindl 01-30-05, 04:12 PM	@Ash - I think its a pretty dumb rule too. Personally, I would say that every line from an attacker's corner to every corner within the target's space must be unblocked. That way both Tarrasque's would gain cover. Personally, I liked the degrees of cover that were used in 3.0 better, but now that we're in 3.5 its either total, +4, or nothing. And I think we err on the side of of it being +4. -Jindl
Naerdaloth 01-30-05, 04:47 PM	I know about that rule, and I think it's exceedingly stupid. According to that rule, this Tarrasque: . . . . . . . . . . . T T T T T T # . . . A T T T T T T . . . . . T T T T T T . . . . . T T T T T T . . . . . T T T T T T . . . . . T T T T T T . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . has cover against the archer, while this Tarrasque . . . . . . . . . . . T T T T T T . . . . A T T T T T T # . . . . T T T T T T . . . . . T T T T T T . . . . . T T T T T T . . . . . T T T T T T . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . does not. LMAO! Those drawings crack me up.. lol.. its like hiding a watermelon behind a pebble... >_> I think it would be sensible that in such a case neither tarrasque gains cover... i mean 99% of it is unblocked :p
Kaigan 01-30-05, 05:06 PM	Okay I just want to say my 2c, since this dispute started because of my fight with Rayos and his one round kill. I want to start with by saying that Rayos was really lucky in that fight. As Jindl stated in the fights of the week thread, it is a very rare occurance that this happens, and as my Pitlord so eloquently put, I am a lucky bastard. I even had some of this luck back in the old CoCo with enilias if some of the older members remember. Secondly, with the whole ally with warhorses, Rayos uses a light warhorse. So with that said, I do agree that a heavy warhorse is a powerful ally. 4Hd with more HP than most 3rd level characters, three attacks. Light warhorse, similar but weaker. I agree that there should be some sort of limitation to the mount. But what limitation, I'm not sure. There are many possibilities. I think I'll let the GM's work that out. They have gotten out of other messes before. With that said, the ally situation I can't really comment on. I use mounts, for pretty much all of my builds. Most I use them for the mobility, and the defend trick is useful. But in most of my fights, I don't send my horse to attack. But if there are too harsh of limitation, then mounted builds won't be encouraged at all, as it will be costly to have a character like that. This is all that I want to say about the mount issue. I'll leave it in the hands of the GM's :D and trust they're decision. With the archer deal, and the first round full attack. This sort of deals with the mount issue, but also with adequate cover issue of the arena. I would first like to apologize to Beldin for explointing that tactics. WIth that said, I like the idea of the four rocks in the designated corners. It would block any attempt to full attack the flat footed opponent. Apart from that, I'm just reiterating what others have already stated. I feel that this discussion has been brought up due to me, so I apologize.
Snommelp 01-30-05, 05:13 PM	@ Odin: the one thing you are overlooking is that if a familiar is killed, its owner takes a big hit in XP. If you are comparing mounts to familiars (which it seems you are), then you need to take that into account. Also, as Ash has pointed out, giving everyone access to something doesn't make it any less powerful. Saying that "since everyone can have a horse, it's my opponent's fault if he loses" is like saying "since everyone has access to greatswords, it's the wizard's fault that he didn't have one when I closed into melee range and killed him." See the flaw in that logic? I'm not saying that greatswords are broken, of course, but that seemed like the best example for this situation.
Snommelp 01-30-05, 05:17 PM	And now to get off of the topic of horses for a second. Standing from prone provokes an Attack of Opportunity, but if the attack hits can you still get up? My instincts say yes, but my instincts have been wrong before.
Solmund 01-30-05, 05:27 PM	quick question- in the xph it says soulknives need to use pp to form thier mindblades. problem is, it doesn't tell how many pp are needed. i am just asking since i am going to be doing a fighter1/soulknife2
Ashenai 01-30-05, 05:30 PM	And now to get off of the topic of horses for a second. Standing from prone provokes an Attack of Opportunity, but if the attack hits can you still get up? My instincts say yes, but my instincts have been wrong before. Well, they're correct in this case. There's no way to use the AoO to prevent a prone person from getting up, except by killing him, of course. :) (Hmm, actually, don't quote me on that. I just realized I'm not sure what happens if a prone person tries to get up and is grappled with the AoO. But apart from grappling, it holds true.) Note also that when you get the AoO against the person getting up, they're still prone. This means you get the +4 bonus against them, but you can't use that AoO to trip them again. quick question- in the xph it says soulknives need to use pp to form thier mindblades. problem is, it doesn't tell how many pp are needed. i am just asking since i am going to be doing a fighter1/soulknife2 No, they don't need to use power points to manifest their mind blade. Maybe you were confused by this sentence: "A soulknife gains Wild Talent as a bonus feat. (This class feature provides the character with the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade, if he has no power points otherwise.)" This just means that a soulknife needs to be (and is) a psionic character. He doesn't actually have to use up any points to manifest his blade.
Jindl 01-30-05, 09:10 PM	Apart from that, I'm just reiterating what others have already stated. I feel that this discussion has been brought up due to me, so I apologize. Don't feel bad. If anything, this discussion will improve the CoCo, and you had a part in it. So feel good. -Jindl
Sindorin 01-30-05, 10:49 PM	Wow. I go out of town for a day and a half and come home to a huge horsey debate. In response to the responses I got for my concerns about pitlord shortages - yes I did know that everyone was paired this week... I was simply concerned for the future. I am a 'what if' kind of guy so naturally I consider lots of worst-case scenarios in the finely refined methods of my madness. In response to the horsey debate - Horses really should take a portion of the winnings in exp, but not gp, that should go to their owner. The exp should allow them to advance in hit die, though. My opinions feel like shots from the peanut gallery at this point, since the debate has become rather exhausted. All my characters but one have horses and have them simply for convenience of movement. I am willing to adapt to whatever changes are imposed, and I welcome them as I think it would make things more interesting. There really should be a limit on allies. You should be fighting the person's build, not the build's allies. Too many allies win the fights these days, even at level three, which is scary.
One_Winged_Angel 01-31-05, 12:58 AM	Ok, I don't post for a few days, and look what happens! Cat, didn't we go through this before. I do seem to remember this same argument. Except it was banning Druid Animal Companions. And DO NOT tell me we are considering that again. Heavy warhorses...ok, yah. They are powerful. But (and no offense to those who were beat by them) they should be cake for a level 3 character to take out. Look at their challange rating! Yes, they can hurt characters, but I'm convinced that they can be outworked. How? a) Mounted characters, like anything, have weaknesses. What? Kill the mount, kill the build. At least partially. Cat's harvester's have LOST because the mount could not be used. (Pale rider v. Harvester comes to mind...) b) Mounted characters are likely (not always) one of two things: chargers or archers. Chargers are easy enough. Get behind something. Archers...well, as my good buddy Alex frequently prooves, those are hard to kill at the easiest of times. On those lines, Alex, you lied to me. You said you weren't doing any more archer builds. (*cough* wuss *cough*) Sorry, inside joke. c) Yes, horses look bad now. But what is 32 hp in, say, 2 levels? Fried meat after a wizards fireball, that's what. The fact is, banning mounts would destroy some builds in the arena. I think that people are making a large fuss out of nothing. In case you think I'm biased, you'll notice that Keth'Arian'Kari does not have a mount. Granted, he lost to someone who did. *Grumble* Snarrrrrrrk!!! *Grumble* If we ban horses, then we might as well ban druids animal companions as well, since they clearly have more HD. And then Leadership would just be so unfair. Anyway, that's my 2 cents, 50 yin, 2cp, .5 drakmah, whatever you want to call it.
Kaigan 01-31-05, 01:08 AM	Archers...well, as my good buddy Alex frequently prooves, those are hard to kill at the easiest of times. On those lines, Alex, you lied to me. You said you weren't doing any more archer builds. (*cough* wuss *cough*) Sorry, inside joke. Hahaha, now everyone knows my real name. Thanks Sean, thanks a lot. Lol.
One_Winged_Angel 01-31-05, 01:10 AM	Hahaha, now everyone knows my real name. Thanks Sean, thanks a lot. Lol. Well, Cat announced mine in the Fights of the Week thread. Guess he got tired of calling me One_Winged_Batt... Oh, BTW, you always used to put these names into everything when you wrote tactics to me. Just saying...
Snommelp 01-31-05, 01:12 AM	Since we're making introductions, Joe is a lot easier to type than Snommelp.
MysticMonk2005 01-31-05, 02:10 AM	I don't realy care what happens. Just don't screw over the builds that utilize mounts for speed. The only time my archer's mounts ever attack is through the defend trick. If you ban horses, I would expect something of similar movement enhanceing abilities to replace them, and they better not get spooked in combat. If you just say that they can't attack that is fine! But don't penalize us for having them. The proposed cost of having a mount is outragious! How does having the mount make the fight easier for the archer? *gasp* could I possibly have to not run? Wow I think that just dooms my opponet there! I didn't have to move my legs! Mounted combatents still gain expirence in battle. They have to manuever and guide the horse while attacking and what not. And the GP is WAY too much. What would you be paying for if you use a horse in combat? Feed? Stables? If so wouldn't you have to pay for those everysingle day after you buy the horse? Having such costs make the mounts rather un appealing. Yes, I have lost to a heavy war horse, WITH MY OWN MOUNTED COMBATANT. I don't blame the horse. I blame myself for not taking the horse into account. I actualy applaude the person who sent the horse out. Thier chances of winning otherwise was rather low. Ok, I'm done. I'm just slightly miffed that there is a possibililty of Lissa leveling EVEN SLOWER just because she spent 400gp to move faster.
Dalton Onestone 01-31-05, 05:08 AM	I don't quite understand one of the basic premises, namely: If characters are unequal in strength, they should still be paired against each other but the rewards should be adjusted. Huh? If you think a Level 3 character with a warhorse is as powerful as, say, a Level 4 character without one, then put that gladiator into the Level 4 pool. Then you can apply an ally discount to what otherwise would be the greater rewards; with luck those two factors would cancel out. End of problem, I think. If somebody has some unbalancing power, give them stronger opponents. The power and the opponents are the offset, and you don't even have to fiddle with the reward levels. No credit costs for a more powerful character or anything like that; just put them in the heavyweight rather than the middleweight class, as it were.
Caterane 01-31-05, 07:17 AM	Mystic: The fact is, banning mounts would destroy some builds in the arena. I think that people are making a large fuss out of nothing. OWA: If you ban horses, I would expect something of similar movement enhanceing abilities to replace them, and they better not get spooked in combat We're turning circles here. Again: We do NOT ban mounts! We just let them suck 1/4 of your XP and Gold, like any other ally does (except class allies who are free). Sindorin: Horses really should take a portion of the winnings in exp, but not gp No, that is not possible and this is why: As you all might have noticed, the gold-XP relation is always the same. That means, if you have an ally that reduces your gold and xp by 1/4, you do not end up with less gold. You also do not level slower because a warhorse, as a powerful ally, increases your win chance thus you earn more XP over time. If you have no warhorse and fight against someone with a horse, you even level faster than normal. These are two points you should understand. I've noticed that many people misunderstood the effects of this rule. Btw, that's not a new rule; we just expand it to include bought animals aswell. Ok, and now again to the Reasons for this rule. Horses are an additional combatant on the battlefield, one with more HD than any gladiator, thus a balance-shifting factor. They are not equipment, and a one-time 400 gp cost is nothing compared to what a gladiator gets. "Just kill the horse" is as easy said as "Just kill the gladiator", especially since a horse has more HP, higher ACs (barding), way faster, scents, and does much more damage. These are facts, no one can ignore and at least we, the GMs, who's responsibility it is to make this board balanced. This discussion reminds me of the "nerf wizards" debatte. Back then, there were so many members who said "Hey, everything is ok. Don't weaken wizards. Fighters should write better tactics", and this despite the obvious. Same here. The problem I see most people have, is that it is a change. Something new. This was the same with most rules in the past. Half memorization for wizards? Sacrilegue! Then expanded to full memorization even. Impossible. But later, everyone saw that it was a good solution. I am sure we wouldn't have Living Gladius today if we wouldn't take steps into the 'unknown'. Supplemental: There's something else that caused Ash and me to think about horses. From next wednesday on, we want to introduce a new add-on to Living Gladius, one that I am sure will be a lot of fun. I am talking about mercenaries. I will give you the exact details later but one problem we saw is that no one would hire a mercenary (261 gp/fight) at that level because there's a much better, much stronger, and much cheaper ally (warhorse) who also stays for all fights instead of just one as a merc, and does neither suck gp nor xp on top of that. The problem is not with the mercenary but with the warhorse. But please, wait until we've properly announce the rules for mercenaries, and perhaps seen them in action, before shooting arrows at them.
cellardweller 01-31-05, 07:38 AM	Just throwing my 2c into the pool. I agree in principle with the idea of horses sucking xp/gold. The problem I have is that it doesn't scale well - this goes for the the flat 25% rule applied to other allies too. It would be better if allies sucked out something like (100*(allies used/allies max allies)/4)% of earnings. That way a gladiator could give up the whole 25% if they thought it was a tough fight, or they could risk just bringing in a dog if they wanted to risk it for greater rewards. The "all or nothing" thing doesn't leave much room for choice.
Sindorin 01-31-05, 09:41 AM	Ah, yes, I understand then. Keeping the exp and gold balanced is probably a good idea. Having the horse take both makes sense now.
Dalton Onestone 01-31-05, 09:47 AM	But please, wait until we've properly announce the rules for mercenaries, and perhaps seen them in action, before shooting arrows at them. The absolute LATEST I'm willing to wait to shoot arrows in them is when they show up in action on the other side. :D
SnarkHunter 01-31-05, 09:48 AM	If you outlaw horses, only outlaws will have horses.
T'Var 01-31-05, 10:04 AM	If you outlaw horses, only outlaws will have horses. nicely put
Dalton Onestone 01-31-05, 10:21 AM	@Cat: Would you mind sharing what OTHER rules changes you have planned? I find myself each week wishing, in face of the new rules, that I had designed my characters differently before, and I suspect there may be an advantage to folks who've been here longer and participated in various discussions about possible rules changes in guessing what may come next. For example, one of my characters last week sold his light warhorse at a loss and bought a heavy one, for obvious reasons. And a new character of mine was created last week with a heavy warhorse and the Improved Initiative feat. Oops.
Caterane 01-31-05, 01:50 PM	Snark: If you outlaw horses, only outlaws will have horses. T'Var: nicely put That's of course your right to do, and if you win without an ally you will level even faster than now. I will continue to use my warhorse which gives me 100ft free movement each round without losing any action while you have to spend move actions or perhaps standard actions to move, and still be much slower. I will send it against your wizards to attack you with +6/+6/+1 and nice damage, or at the very least suck some of your very limited spells. I will send it to seek, scent, and track down your rogue builds. And all the while I will lean back behind my towershield and watch while I still earn more XP and Gold than you. Would you mind sharing what OTHER rules changes you have planned? I already did, in the Reformations thread. There, all important add-on's are listed and described. The question is when do we incorporate them. But things like improved initiative or the horse debate are difficult to foresee. We have to learn and adapt as we go. Still, you can be sure that the relevant subject of the rules change can be refunded/retroactively changed for free. In this case, you may fully refund your bought allies, or substitute the Improved initiative feat with something else, if you think it is not worthwhile anymore.
OdinTheReaper 01-31-05, 02:49 PM	Ok, and now again to the Reasons for this rule. Horses are an additional combatant on the battlefield, one with more HD than any gladiator, thus a balance-shifting factor. They are not equipment, and a one-time 400 gp cost is nothing compared to what a gladiator gets. "Just kill the horse" is as easy said as "Just kill the gladiator", especially since a horse has more HP, higher ACs (barding), way faster, scents, and does much more damage. These are facts, no one can ignore and at least we, the GMs, who's responsibility it is to make this board balanced. @Cat: Okay i am just pointing a few things out. I just wanted to say that horses dont neccessarily have more HP or AC than most gladiators.....take mine for instance...we have the same exact hp although my AC is greater than his, even if i put barding on him (which im not because i use him for defence, during melee combat, and most of all movement). Although horses are way faster and have scent (which most animal companions have also [but that is part of the character and i understand that]), they do not neccessarily cause more damage. My attacks are greater than my horses and i only attack one less time than he does, plus his bite gets only +1 for the bonus. I just wanted to point these few things out, nothing big...just thought i would mention that like all things in life...it doesnt apply to everyone.
Sindorin 01-31-05, 02:54 PM	@Cat: Okay i am just pointing a few things out. I just wanted to say that horses dont neccessarily have more HP or AC than most gladiators.....take mine for instance...we have the same exact hp although my AC is greater than his, even if i put barding on him (which im not because i use him for defence, during melee combat, and most of all movement). Although horses are way faster and have scent (which most animal companions have also [but that is part of the character and i understand that]), they do not neccessarily cause more damage. My attacks are greater than my horses and i only attack one less time than he does, plus his bite gets only +1 for the bonus. I just wanted to point these few things out, nothing big...just thought i would mention that like all things in life...it doesnt apply to everyone. Yes but Cat is saying that the reason that there is a rule now is because the horse is JUST AS POWERFUL if not better than some allies. Those allies, under our current rules (and I keep wanting to think by the old Coco) we have an exp system, and if we are going to use an exp system we need to treat it like an exp system, which would give experience to all party members. In a fight that would be you and your horse. Were it a campaign you would take the total exp earned and divide by your party members. here your character will only lose 1/4 of it to his horse. It balances out. You may not level as fast, but hey, you've got a horse, and they might not.
Ashenai 01-31-05, 03:01 PM	Also, don't forget that with this system, if you have a horse and so does your opponent, then you would both get normal XP and gold. The XP and gold loss you incur for having a horse would be exactly counter-balanced by the XP and gold gain you get for defeating an opponent with a horse.
T'Var 01-31-05, 03:01 PM	I would also like to point out that in Klaxons last fight, he was able to kill a heavy war horse in two hits using tactics of ready and reach. once it is let loose only having a 2 intel it has no tactics rather than crush kill which can be out manuvered easily. now before you say that my light war horse won the fight, it made only 1 attack vs the war horse and that I could have just as easily done since Klaxon has a better to-hit and dmg output. now i wasnt around when 'nerfing'(what ever that means) was around, but it IS ALL ABOUT your tactics....how many crush kill destroy pcs win vs one who useing simply better tactics and the Equipment (i.e. broch of sheilding to stop your CL9 mm's or a horse to have better speed) you buy
Sindorin 01-31-05, 03:03 PM	Also, don't forget that with this system, if you have a horse and so does your opponent, then you would both get normal XP and gold. The XP and gold loss you incur for having a horse would be exactly counter-balanced by the XP and gold gain you get for defeating an opponent with a horse. Ooh, I didn't consider that. So what if you bring in your Heavy Warhorse and they bring in their light warhorse?
Dalton Onestone 01-31-05, 03:07 PM	I would like to reiterate a point I made earlier: If there's an official determination that some gladiators of a certain character level are more powerful than others, to the point that it's reflected in their XP awards for a bout, why pair them into mismatches? Why not pair gladiators by their whole CR (or whatever custom CR formula you use as a guide to awards), rather than just the CL/ECL part of CR? E.g., pair a Level 3 gladiator on horseback with, say, a Level 4 unmounted gladiator. This might have the incidental effect of mainly having mounted gladiators fight each other and mainly having gladiators on foot fight each other at the lower levels, but that's fine by me, and anyhow it would quickly stop being the case.
Ashenai 01-31-05, 03:13 PM	Ooh, I didn't consider that. So what if you bring in your Heavy Warhorse and they bring in their light warhorse? I wish I had a good answer to that one. Cellardweller had an excellent point; it would be nice it we could make this "scale". But I simply can't come up with a system that's both always fair, and comprehensible. (CD's formula doesn't work, because there's no "max number of allies"; they're restricted by CR and/or ECL, and bought animals and class allies complicate the system further.)
Ashenai 01-31-05, 03:18 PM	I would like to reiterate a point I made earlier: If there's an official determination that some gladiators of a certain character level are more powerful than others, to the point that it's reflected in their XP awards for a bout, why pair them into mismatches? Why not pair gladiators by their whole CR (or whatever custom CR formula you use as a guide to awards), rather than just the CL/ECL part of CR? E.g., pair a Level 3 gladiator on horseback with, say, a Level 4 unmounted gladiator. This might have the incidental effect of mainly having mounted gladiators fight each other and mainly having gladiators on foot fight each other at the lower levels, but that's fine by me, and anyhow it would quickly stop being the case. Everyone is welcome to fight gladiators of different ECLs, mounted or not. All you have to do is write in your character's subject line something like this: "Ready for January 1, would like to fight against ECL 6-8" And you'll be paired with an ECL 6-8 gladiator, if possible. We haven't emphasized this yet, because it's currently irrelevant. We'll make a tutorial post about it when we have ECL 4 gladiators. :)
Sindorin 01-31-05, 03:50 PM	ah, you mean 'next week when we have ecl 4 gladiators' :D
OdinTheReaper 01-31-05, 03:51 PM	So if i win a fight against a character with no horse/mount then i gain 675 xp, 900gp abd do i add the 225 xp to my horses levels or what do i do with the 1/4 xp? :thinks: And if i face someone with a horse also then its 900xp/900gp. Im just making sure i understand all of this. Also are these new rules posted anywhere so that i could look at them? If so then where? Thanks for the help. ~Odin
Caterane 01-31-05, 03:57 PM	http://www.ianai.net/jokes/forumpix/capacity.jpg
T'Var 01-31-05, 03:57 PM	So if i win a fight against a character with no horse/mount then i gain 675 xp, 900gp abd do i add the 225 xp to my horses levels or what do i do with the 1/4 xp? :thinks: And if i face someone with a horse also then its 900xp/900gp. Im just making sure i understand all of this. Also are these new rules posted anywhere so that i could look at them? If so then where? Thanks for the help. ~Odin Almost, you would take a penelty to xp AND gp and no your horse doesnt gain the xp it is just thrown away into the eather
Sindorin 01-31-05, 03:59 PM	I wish I had a good answer to that one. Cellardweller had an excellent point; it would be nice it we could make this "scale". But I simply can't come up with a system that's both always fair, and comprehensible. (CD's formula doesn't work, because there's no "max number of allies"; they're restricted by CR and/or ECL, and bought animals and class allies complicate the system further.) Well, allow me a shot in the dark then. I am at school right now so i don't have books and it won't let me get to the srd for some reason, but in their stats i'm sure the light warhorse has a CR listed, as does the heavy warhorse. In the DMG there is a table which guides how to award total exp for an encounter based on CR. We could use this and simply proportion it to LGE standards. Again, if I had books I would go more in depth, but I gave it a try. It might not even come up though. I am just wondering how we should judge that considering some allies ar greatly superior to others, and they sometimes do more for their part than their opponents' allies. Right now it seems like there is a flat fee for taking a heavy warhorse into battle and depending on your opponent's ally, you may end up getting more exp than you should if you fight against someone with a lesser ally. Then again, I think we are way overanalyzing this. Oh well, it's all in good fun.
Sindorin 01-31-05, 04:00 PM	http://www.ianai.net/jokes/forumpix/capacity.jpg I suppose that's true. New Thread anyone?
Caterane 01-31-05, 04:02 PM	@Odin: If you win against an opponoment with a (non-class-ability) ally, you gain +33% XP and Gold. If you have a (non-class-ability) ally and fight against someone without a (non-class-ability) ally, you gain 25% less XP and gold. That means, if both have allies (or both have no allies) it evens out and you will receive the normal amount of xp and gold (900/900 at lvl 3)
Sindorin 01-31-05, 04:06 PM	Heh, so basically before you write your tactics, PM your opponent to decide whether you both should use your mounts so the loser and winner each get better experience, and then once he agrees write evil comments about how you can get more experience points out of it because you said you didn't want your horse in the fight. My alignment is pretty evil right now :plotting: :evillaugh :devil:
Beldin 01-31-05, 04:08 PM	+33%(opponent has horse) - 25%(you have horse) =0% :confused: :confused:
T'Var 01-31-05, 04:10 PM	This is just another Penilty for charectors to endure...shall I even mention the that this is exactly the same way you have changed Leadership to punish those who take it? the feat takes pains to explan mechanicly how they DO NOT take xp but that is being overlooked in the new coco. now a peice of equipment is also becoming a penilty for those who take it? Where am I wrong in this?
Caterane 01-31-05, 04:30 PM	+33%(opponent has horse) - 25%(you have horse) =0% :confused: :confused: 900 XP +33% (300) = 1200 1200 - 25% (300) = 900 or: 900 XP - 25% (225) = 675 675 XP + 33% (225) = 900 Restart your computer :D j/k
Naerdaloth 01-31-05, 04:43 PM	Also, don't forget that with this system, if you have a horse and so does your opponent, then you would both get normal XP and gold. The XP and gold loss you incur for having a horse would be exactly counter-balanced by the XP and gold gain you get for defeating an opponent with a horse. Ah, that is a new piece of information.. I think this is fair and wouldn't have a problem with it. One thing to note: Due to the fact that horses do deteriorate in value and power compared to other allies in a few levels (because they dont advance), that there should be an ECL cap at which point there is no longer a tax for taking one into battle. By this point, perhaps around ECL 6-8, there are 2 reasons for the change to happen. 1) Cavalier builds have spent more resources/feats in order to specialize on mounted combat; at lower levels, all character are sorta universal so having a horse in combat is not *necessary*. But once you get higher you specialize more and so a mount is an important part of your strategy. Builds not meant as cavaliers will no longer find great use for horses which I think is an important part of where the unbalance comes in. 2) They are no longer so strong in comparison to other characters, or even other allies, and so the problem of balance is no longer such a factor.
Dalton Onestone 01-31-05, 05:23 PM	+33%(opponent has horse) - 25%(you have horse) =0% :confused: :confused: (4/3) * (3/4) = 1 Incidentally, that's why you should own a diversified portfolio of stocks. If your money goes up by 33% one year and down by 25% the next, you break even. But if half your money goes up by 33% and half goes down by 25% each year, you make small and steady gains.
Snommelp 01-31-05, 05:47 PM	now a peice of equipment is also becoming a penilty for those who take it? Where am I wrong in this? This "piece of equipment" is fully capable of making attacks of its own free will, and is for all extents and purposes a very unintelligent gladiator. And, as has been pointed out, horses in the arena are completely different from horses in campaigns, as intended by the PHB. Your PHB horses don't come back to life when they die, and there are a good many dungeons where they will be left behind. That's the reason I suggested having horses rented for a fraction of their PHB cost; it simulates the idea that you can't use them all the time and that they do occassionally die. And, before you start railing against me for "hating the horses," please note that Cedric has recently bought himself a horse. I thought it made sense for the character at this time, irregardless of the debate going on here.
One_Winged_Angel 01-31-05, 06:38 PM	@Cat: Ok, first of all, don't insult me. You switched mystics comment with mine. That's just plain degrading... ;) Secondly, I don't see too many complaints about horses. No offense, but I've gotten lots of agreements here. If you can't take on a horse at level 3, you may want to redesign your character. From the SRD Warhorse, Heavy Large Animal Hit Dice: 4d8+12 (30 hp) Initiative: +1 Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares) Armor Class: 14 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +4 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 13 Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+11 Attack: Hoof +6 melee (1d6+4) Full Attack: 2 hooves +6 melee (1d6+4) and bite +1 melee (1d4+2) Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: — Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent Saves: Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +2 Abilities: Str 18, Dex 13, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 6 Skills: Listen +5, Spot +4 Feats: Endurance, Run Environment: Temperate plains Organization: Domesticated Challenge Rating: 2 Advancement: — Level Adjustment: — @All: Ok, so we make horses suck up XP and GP. Wow. So, now, suddenly, that horse WHICH WILL NEVER GAIN HD OR EXPERIENCE IN ANY WAY is going to take that up? I originally though that with Experience, the ally gets some. That is fair. BTW, Cat, you failed to notice another one of my points. @All: What is a CR 2 animal going to do at level six? Besides, you know, die? How about we save the debate for then when we have characters getting the leadership feat? I'm sure all manners of hell will break loose then. Sorry I'm grumpy, but I spent a long morning in front of a class cuz some idiot threw a steel rim through the window. And I got finals results back. And this whole argument is thinking of the poor people who can't think on their own about how to deal with horses and not on long term ideas.
Snommelp 01-31-05, 06:42 PM	@ Sean: please recall that a CR 2 means that a party of four characters with an average level of 2 will find the creature to be a moderate challenge. One character at level 3 does not equate to a four person party at level 2. The four person party would likely kill the level 3 character.
One_Winged_Angel 01-31-05, 06:53 PM	@ Sean: please recall that a CR 2 means that a party of four characters with an average level of 2 will find the creature to be a moderate challenge. One character at level 3 does not equate to a four person party at level 2. The four person party would likely kill the level 3 character. Yes, but I've run experiments like that before. Of course Four different characters would kill a single level 3 character. There is a reason for that. They have advantages of numbers and diversity, among other things that characters are considered CR creatures based on their level. CR 3 vs. 2 CR 2s. No, not good odds. The reason I'm annoyed is that characters in the past have taken on heavy warhorses at low levels, no problem. I have no idea where this argument is coming from. It seems unfounded to me. Don't like the horse? Kill the horse. Better, since it's rider has less HP, kill the rider. There are weys to deal with it. And before anyone complains, yes, there are ways of getting around it without your own horse.
Kaigan 01-31-05, 07:09 PM	The thing with horses is that most characters use them for the movement bonus. Yes they are a CR 2 for Heavy warhorses and CR 1 for light warhorses. And for the price they are pretty cheap. But rarely do I see horses uses mainly as a melee tool. Maybe as a meat shield, but not "Okay horse, go kick the crap out of that character, while I sit here and drink some tea." But there are ways of immobilizing horses. Druids of second level can cast hold animal. I haven't seen one druid try that spell, even in coco history. Rangers of 4th level can purchase that scroll too. Clerics can use a variety of spells to dampen the buffness (If i may use the term) of the mount. Example: Cause Fear, Bane, etc. Wizards/Socerers can use a variety of scrolls, etc. and spells. Alot of beating a horse comes from the tactics. But restricting horses by imposing an xp and gp penalty I think may be a bit too harsh, especially for those that use horses to maximize movement. If need be, I seriously consider just getting rid of the warhorses period. If characters want they can consider buying a light horse, or heavy horse. Besides mounted characters usually have pretty high ride, and/or handle animal skills. Or what you could do is have a "Wizard" before the fight, use the spell mount to summon a light horse to use during the fight for the characters that need it. This way, there will be a weekly cost to fighting mounted, and no exp or gp penalty. These are just my two cents. I just don't see why mounted characters should be penalized. I mean, if a character has a scroll of CL 9 magic missles, if you want to win, you have to buy a brooch of shielding. If a character is really good with arrows, you have to have protection of arrows, or wind wall, or some other means of protecting yourself, which can be expensive. And then psionics... I mean, some of their powers are just ricidulously hard to overcome, especially powers like ego whip, etc. I'm just saying that to defeat other opponents, that also have an arsenal of "equipment" you have to be prepared, and really think about how to beat them. To for example Risal's fight against Flower. I could have easily survived longer had I used one of my many protection against alignment potions. But I didn't and that was an error in tactics. Having a mount, fighting against a mount is just another thing to think about in tactics. And I usually take out my opponents mount before anything. But yeah, if you do implement an xp and gp penalty, then I believe that I will "find a powerful wizard" and buy a Mount spell (CL 8). This way, I get a horse. I can call it a buff because it lasts for 16 hrs. The spell duration is 2 hrs./level. and it obeys me completely. Also it only costs me 80 gp. If you want it to be like that, then yeah, go for it.
Snommelp 01-31-05, 07:15 PM	:weep: Everybody's so obsessed with the gp/xp penalty that nobody's paying any attention to my suggestion... :weep: The suggestion was almost exactly what you said, Kaigan, except instead of having a wizard cast mount I suggested mounts could be rented out for a fraction of their price (I originally said 1/4, but looking again I think it could be a lot lower than that). This way the CoCo mounts simulate campaign mounts, which can die or might be left behind for some encounters. I really think it's a good suggestion, but nobody seems to care about it because they're more interested in debating whether or not mounts should take away gp and xp.
Kaigan 01-31-05, 07:23 PM	Yeah, sorry Snommelp. I didn't recall that you had mentioned the spell Mount, but I do recall the 1/4 gp rental for horse. That too, I think is a good idea.
One_Winged_Angel 01-31-05, 07:30 PM	:weep: Everybody's so obsessed with the gp/xp penalty that nobody's paying any attention to my suggestion... :weep: The suggestion was almost exactly what you said, Kaigan, except instead of having a wizard cast mount I suggested mounts could be rented out for a fraction of their price (I originally said 1/4, but looking again I think it could be a lot lower than that). This way the CoCo mounts simulate campaign mounts, which can die or might be left behind for some encounters. I really think it's a good suggestion, but nobody seems to care about it because they're more interested in debating whether or not mounts should take away gp and xp. Hate to break it to you, but that happens a lot here. It's happened to me more times than I care to count. I thought mounts did die if they are killed in the arena. I just don't like the idea of taking away XP and GP being docked at high levels for moving faster. Renting horses isn't bad, but why should we penalize people for buying thier own? Its just a risk they take if the mount dies, right? I think Kaigan and I are upset because we handle our mounts as transit, not combatively. That, and between the two of us, we've come up with plenty of ways to kill horses. Ever consider Tasha's Hidious laughter? Ever consider what exactly happens to the rider if the mount suddely "rolls over" in combat? We both have methods of killing horses and we're just a little ticked off that we are 'babying' (no offense to anyone. its just how I view this.) the people who don't want to factor in the horses as something else to deal with. Also, look at the cost. 400 gp. Its not exactly cheep if you want to buy all those nice, shiny weapons. Granted, starting at level three changes that, though not by much. I myself prefer 150 gp on a light warhorse that gives menuvering ability. Also, if the XP/GP changes are implemented, I think I'll just retire Lia. She's not what I was hoping for when I designed her. I have a much better idea for an archer that will kill anything, mounted or no, without his/her own mount.
Snommelp 01-31-05, 07:40 PM	Ah, but there's the rub. Mounts are effected by the nimbus just like everything else. They may be out for the rest of the fight, but they come back right after it. I think, however, that WotC expected mounts to occasionally die or have something happen to them which would lead to them being replaced. Case in point: The CoCo mounts are just slightly less replaceable than the mounts which come out of a bag of tricks. The bag of tricks costs 6300 gp; the mount only 400. Of course, the bag also has the chance to produce a lion or a rhinocerous instead, but the fact remains that there is a big pricing problem if we assume that mounts can be replaced for no cost. I know that you said , OWA, that you thought mounts died in the arena, so that last bit was not directed at you, but rather many other people.
OdinTheReaper 01-31-05, 08:54 PM	@all: Also by imposing some of these restrictions/laws/regulations or whatever on characters that have mounts, i think that it will cause a lot of people to retire thier characters and rebuild. A lot of people took feats and skills related to mounted combat and now they're restricted on it. I for one will most likely change my character if strict regulations are put on mounts considering i put most of my skills and build into having a lot of movement and freedom using mounts. I wouldnt be very successful if that was hindered therefore i would start over. I dont know i'm just sick of hearing about it....i guess i wish it would just be forgotten or resolved because the longer it takes, the more of a pain it will be to start over with a new character because the first build will have been advanced pretty dang far already and some (like myself) will start over...depending on the regulation if any occur.
MysticMonk2005 01-31-05, 08:59 PM	I'm sorry, but its still ridiculous that having the horse costs over half of what it takes to buy them. After two wins, you've just LOST money & exp by winning with them. Indeed, I'll just follow Kaigans example and pay the 80 (which is cheaper win or loose) then actualy owning the horse. And if you decide that that is overpowered as well, Lissa is retiring. Just how many people actualy use thier mount as a weapon? And amoung those, how often? I doupt that it is very much more then a few that do it rather rarely. So why does everyone else that uses them for transport have to be so severly penalized? Also, people with light warehorses are being penalized cause weak people are complaining about the heavy ones.
Snommelp 01-31-05, 09:42 PM	@ Mystic and Odin: There are two different suggestions here, neither of which is going into effect yet. You are so busy arguing against Cat's and Ash's fix that you have overlooked mine, which I believe is a very nice compromise. Mystic, you said you liked Kaigan's idea of buying the mount spell from a wizard; that's incredibly similar to my contribution. Please tell me what you think if it, I'm beginning to feel unappreciated.
Snommelp 01-31-05, 09:49 PM	One more thing: I am about to run Moon-moon vs. Alexis. Alexis has a MW Mighty Composite Longbow +4 with a listed range of 220. I can't figure out how that figure was reached. Is this a mistake, or am I missing something?
T'Var 01-31-05, 09:51 PM	@ Mystic and Odin: There are two different suggestions here, neither of which is going into effect yet. You are so busy arguing against Cat's and Ash's fix that you have overlooked mine, which I believe is a very nice compromise. Mystic, you said you liked Kaigan's idea of buying the mount spell from a wizard; that's incredibly similar to my contribution. Please tell me what you think if it, I'm beginning to feel unappreciated. Ive read your idea of renting a mount but their idea says that just having a mount with you is going to give you an xp and gp penelty so renting one just costs more money
One_Winged_Angel 01-31-05, 09:52 PM	@Snommelp: ... Quote that play again, I swear I will hunt you down. Here's an idea. NOTE TO ALL: I HAVE AN IDEA. THIS IS A HISTORIC AND AMAZING EVENT. PLEASE CATALOGUE IT. How about instead of reviving allies for free as we have been doing, we have penalties. For example, we could have them be "bought back" from the grim reaper (or the harvester...whatever) at 1/2 the cost of the animal that it was bought at? Oh, BTW, bag of tricks is a bad example. A LOT more than just mounts come out of it. Ask Arti if you don't believe me. @Arti: Remember that? Your Trog vs. Jo'Li? I believe your exact comment was, "If I had wanted a monster fight against a rhino, I would have asked for one."
MysticMonk2005 01-31-05, 09:55 PM	Sorry Snommelp. Its definatly a better deal then the proposed EXP/GP drain that Cat and Ash have proposed. But it also depends on the price. As I said, through the spell, you can get a horse 5x for the same price as actualying buying it and you don't loose exp. I would prefer that people quite crying becuse some odd someone uses thier horse to attack. But as I said, your proposal is MUCH more fair then the exp/gp drain.
Dalton Onestone 01-31-05, 09:55 PM	One more thing: I am about to run Moon-moon vs. Alexis. Alexis has a MW Mighty Composite Longbow +4 with a listed range of 220. I can't figure out how that figure was reached. Is this a mistake, or am I missing something? Have you checked for the Far Shot feat?
T'Var 01-31-05, 09:56 PM	How about instead of reviving allies for free as we have been doing, we have penalties. For example, we could have them be "bought back" from the grim reaper (or the harvester...whatever) at 1/2 the cost of the animal that it was bought at? this will bring about the complain that gladiators are being 'mean' by targeting mounts just like it would be 'mean' to attack a familor because it could cost the mage xp and hit points for the fort save failure
Sindorin 01-31-05, 10:01 PM	One more thing: I am about to run Moon-moon vs. Alexis. Alexis has a MW Mighty Composite Longbow +4 with a listed range of 220. I can't figure out how that figure was reached. Is this a mistake, or am I missing something? I was helping her when she bought her Distance enhancement to her longbow. If it's wrong, it's kind of my fault.
One_Winged_Angel 01-31-05, 10:02 PM	this will bring about the complain that gladiators are being 'mean' by targeting mounts just like it would be 'mean' to attack a familor because it could cost the mage xp and hit points for the fort save failure No offense, but I attack a familiar if it annoys me. I'm honorable outside of gaming, but in it, IMO, anything goes. You and some of the newer memebers may not remember, but what I'm suggesting is a step up from how things used to be. We used to have to buy back allies COMPLETELY. You want mean? Characters who had spent 5k or so on a mount saw it killed. Yah. That was mean. But we managed to deal with it. I think 1/2 price to revive is perfectly fair.
Snommelp 01-31-05, 10:02 PM	Have you checked for the Far Shot feat? Checked for it, didn't find it. @ T'Var: my idea and the other idea are mutually exclusive. I wouldn't want to have to rent a horse and then pay part of my XP and gp either. @ OWA: which play am I quoting? Also, difference between bag of tricks and mount has been noted.
Snommelp 01-31-05, 10:03 PM	I was helping her when she bought her Distance enhancement to her longbow. If it's wrong, it's kind of my fault. Distance enhancement? Didn't see one of those! I see it now; I'll get started on the fight.
Sindorin 01-31-05, 10:03 PM	Checked for it, didn't find it. I found out what the problem was - look at her equipment and it is priced and labeled correctly, she just forgot to label it in the attacks section.
Dalton Onestone 01-31-05, 10:04 PM	Ever consider Tasha's Hidious laughter? I did, long enough to be dismayed that it doesn't work on INT 2 creatures.
MysticMonk2005 01-31-05, 10:04 PM	this will bring about the complain that gladiators are being 'mean' by targeting mounts just like it would be 'mean' to attack a familor because it could cost the mage xp and hit points for the fort save failure Do you know how many times I have lost my horse in combat? Zero, Zip, Nada. Pard had his horse for atleast 7 fights, and nothing happened to it. And guess what? IT WOULD STILL BE CHEAPER THEN CAT AND ASHES IDEA.
One_Winged_Angel 01-31-05, 10:04 PM	@Snommelp: They both exist. Except, doesn't that boost the shot slightly above 220?
Dalton Onestone 01-31-05, 10:05 PM	Do you know how many times I have lost my horse in combat? Zero, Zip, Nada. Pard had his horse for atleast 7 fights, and nothing happened to it. And guess what? IT WOULD STILL BE CHEAPER THEN CAT AND ASHES IDEA. I've had a total of 6 bouts. Two dead horses so far. One of them was for tactical reasons, I guess, but in the other T'Var's character shot him out from under me in a single critical hit. Of course, that was a light warhorse, a mistake I since rectified.
Sindorin 01-31-05, 10:06 PM	heh, the roleplay thread is at a round 666 replies.
Arstimis 01-31-05, 10:09 PM	I've had a total of 6 bouts. Two dead horses so far. One of them was for tactical reasons, I guess, but in the other T'Var's character shot him out from under me in a single critical hit. Of course, that was a light warhorse, a mistake I since rectified. Whoa Whoa..this brings us back full circle. Wasnt the debate started that mounts were too powerful. This newsbreaking information kinda proves that this isnt the case am i wrong? of course not, im never wrong and yes i remember OWA....that was a nightmare..and it wasnt just a rhino..there were like 4 other animals..and i somehow killed the rhino and a couple others...i think im going to make that guy Living Gladius capable and bring him back
Sindorin 01-31-05, 10:09 PM	The distance enhancement doubles a weapon's range increment. her composite longbow was at 110 ft before the enhancement, so she figured 220 feet would be the result. I know it seems like I am her spokesperson - it's only because she doesn't have internet at her apartment.
One_Winged_Angel 01-31-05, 10:13 PM	Whoa Whoa..this brings us back full circle. Wasnt the debate started that mounts were too powerful. This newsbreaking information kinda proves that this isnt the case am i wrong? of course not, im never wrong and yes i remember OWA....that was a nightmare..and it wasnt just a rhino..there were like 4 other animals..and i somehow killed the rhino and a couple others...i think im going to make that guy Living Gladius capable and bring him back THANK YOU ARTI!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: I think that Arti just made a good point right there.
MysticMonk2005 01-31-05, 10:25 PM	YES That is a very good point! The main reason why Bill didn't die? He never left being under me.
Snommelp 01-31-05, 10:28 PM	I just keep coming up with questions when I try to run a fight! Here's my newest: the PHB says a mounted combatant can make a melee attack at the end of a mount's full move with no penalty. What about a double-move? Is there a penalty, or can the combatant even attack?
One_Winged_Angel 01-31-05, 11:00 PM	I just keep coming up with questions when I try to run a fight! Here's my newest: the PHB says a mounted combatant can make a melee attack at the end of a mount's full move with no penalty. What about a double-move? Is there a penalty, or can the combatant even attack? Its just considered a charge.
Jindl 01-31-05, 11:01 PM	The distance enhancement doubles a weapon's range increment. her composite longbow was at 110 ft before the enhancement, so she figured 220 feet would be the result. I know it seems like I am her spokesperson - it's only because she doesn't have internet at her apartment. You realize that a +1 distance mighty (+4) composite longbow costs 8800 gp, right? That's more than double the gp that any pc should currently have... -Jindl
T'Var 01-31-05, 11:02 PM	I just keep coming up with questions when I try to run a fight! Here's my newest: the PHB says a mounted combatant can make a melee attack at the end of a mount's full move with no penalty. What about a double-move? Is there a penalty, or can the combatant even attack? yes he can, he can even gain the bonus and peniltys of charging if its a staight line but if the horse takes more than a single move the rider can only make a standerd action attack not a full attack action
Jindl 01-31-05, 11:03 PM	I just keep coming up with questions when I try to run a fight! Here's my newest: the PHB says a mounted combatant can make a melee attack at the end of a mount's full move with no penalty. What about a double-move? Is there a penalty, or can the combatant even attack? Yes, you can make a single attack at the end of your mounts move. No, it is not considered a charge unless the mount is also charging. Think of it like a readied attack when you get into melee range, which is why it can only be a single attack. -Jindl
One_Winged_Angel 01-31-05, 11:03 PM	You realize that a +1 distance mighty (+4) composite longbow costs 8800 gp, right? That's more than double the gp that any pc should currently have... -Jindl Self crafted, perhaps?
T'Var 01-31-05, 11:06 PM	omg....OMG!!! I beat Jindl in a reply!!!!!!!! :dancin: does the happy dance well into the night :dancin:
Snommelp 01-31-05, 11:08 PM	Woah, time out, I come back with my dinner and all of a sudden one of the characters spent more money than is allowed? What should I do? @ OWA, T'Var, and Jindl: thanks. It's not a charge, so it'll just be a normal attack.
Jindl 01-31-05, 11:09 PM	Self crafted, perhaps? Craft Arms and Armor requires caster level 5. @T'Var - Congrats, but its really not such an impressive feat, you know.
Jindl 01-31-05, 11:09 PM	Woah, time out, I come back with my dinner and all of a sudden one of the characters spent more money than is allowed? What should I do? Either make it a +1 bow, or if that is still too much $, then make it a mw bow.
Snommelp 01-31-05, 11:12 PM	Will do, Jindl. I would have to change the fight because of this, except that the only really long-range shot so far was a natural 1.
One_Winged_Angel 01-31-05, 11:12 PM	Coincidentally, would a character be allowed to quest for a bow like that? (Whistles innocently)
Snommelp 01-31-05, 11:34 PM	Coincidentally, would a character be allowed to quest for a bow like that? (Whistles innocently) Not for another few levels, methinks. It'll be possible, though. And you speaking of quests reminded me of something else. I would like to point out that, if Cedric goes questing, Ala'andor will not be fighting and may very well retire (he was my back-up while I waited for Cedric to come back).
Sindorin 01-31-05, 11:46 PM	Re:Nanaleigh's distance bow Read her character sheet - it says MW Distance Comp longbow (+4). That's only a +1 enhancement so she didn't spend too much gold. Am I just mistaken? Do you have to have the +1 enhancement before you can add other things like distance or seeking?
One_Winged_Angel 01-31-05, 11:49 PM	Re:Nanaleigh's distance bow Read her character sheet - it says MW Distance Comp longbow (+4). That's only a +1 enhancement so she didn't spend too much gold. Am I just mistaken? Do you have to have the +1 enhancement before you can add other things like distance or seeking? You have to get at least a +1 enchantment bonus before you can add abilities.
Snommelp 01-31-05, 11:52 PM	Not only that, a +1 enhancement (which Distance counts as) costs 2000 gp, not the 800 listed on Alexis' sheet. The fight's finished, though, and after the first shot, Moon-moon never gave her a chance to get to the edges of her bow's range.
Sindorin 01-31-05, 11:53 PM	ah crap. Oh well, that's alright. Snommelp, could you please treat Nanaleigh's bow as a mw +1 Composite (+4) Longbow for the sake of it? I misunderstood a rule and I don't want her to suffer for it. The range increment should be 110 feet. I apologize for the confusion... she wanted ways to shoot from farther away and I immediately thought of the distance enhancement. I neglected to consider the +1 enhancement being a prerequisite.
Snommelp 01-31-05, 11:57 PM	I could go back and add +1 to each attack, yes. However, none were close enough for that extra +1 to matter anyways. Unfortunately, the fight was a bit one-sided after the first round.
Sindorin 01-31-05, 11:58 PM	Not only that, a +1 enhancement (which Distance counts as) costs 2000 gp, not the 800 listed on Alexis' sheet. The fight's finished, though, and after the first shot, Moon-moon never gave her a chance to get to the edges of her bow's range. Okay, just for the sake of it, total up her gold. I think she forgot to adjust what she spent on the bow. I will take more care to check her sheet over before the editing deadline from now on. (uh oh I am in trouble, I better start sucking up to her before she finds out what happened... :rolleyes: )
Snommelp 02-01-05, 12:07 AM	I already did. I think, with the 800 gp spent on the bow, that it came out to something like 1874 or some strange even number like that. Too much to add the +1, I'm sure.
Sindorin 02-01-05, 12:11 AM	Hmm... looks like she had some pretty bad rolls as it is. I will just make sure to help her fix it later. It looked like a lot of bad luck on her part considering she has a pretty good chance to hit for level three. Oh well, no harm done.
Snommelp 02-01-05, 12:13 AM	Pretty good? Her chances were "pretty good" when she was running away and shooting! Whenever she didn't have the -4 to worry about, her chances of hitting were better than "pretty good," even with all of that armor Moon-moon had!
SnarkHunter 02-01-05, 12:25 AM	I'd say Moon-moon's fight also demonstrates another way to deal with the Warhorse: hilariously high armor classes. For my part, aside from a brief quip, I haven't really said much, but Cat and most of the old timers could probably guess my position anyway. I look at the CoCo as a small self contained ecosystem. Each of the gladiators are trying to prove themselves and pass on genetic material (level up, to extend the metaphor to unseemly levels) by the best means possible. A real ecosystem can never be said to be balanced for it is constantly in flux, one year the wolves grow in number and a great many deer die because of it. The next year the remaining dear are so few in number, many wolves will die off. The following year without all the depredations of the wolves deer will swell and suddenly, food is plentiful for the wolves. ...now then, to try and bring this to something relevant look at Warhorses as a previously unremarkable species that-following a cataclysmic forrest fire-suddenly reaches new levels of ubiquity. Perhaps it always had the potential, but now it is clearly demonstrated. Now there are two ways one could address this population explosion: 1) Root out the warhorses with axe and fire and cause a dozen other unintentional (and potentially detrimental) alterations in the operation of the CoCo. Or 2) simply let it be and examine it again from a longer viewpoint. I would predict (One can never know for sure with something so complex) that in the great variety of species to be examined a few, or perhaps many, will be successful in the new environment. New and more virile builds will follow on the heels of these and best their forebores in time. And in time (and levels) the Warhorse 'crisis' will seem rather silly in the face of whatever new brokenness is currently assaulting the CoCo. My 2cp.
Snommelp 02-01-05, 12:34 AM	I think we need some humor to get our minds off of the whole horse issue. Luckily, I happen to be the butt of several jokes on a regular basis. I sing baritone, or high bass, in the men's choir at my college. Ever since I joined, I have been making light-hearted jokes at the expense of the tenors. This semester, however, we are singing a song which requires counter-tenors (men who sing even higher than tenors, if you can believe it!). Guess who's now singing counter-tenor. It certainly seems that irony slapped me across the face pretty hard.
Kaigan 02-01-05, 12:49 AM	Lol. Thanks snommelp. needed that. Haha, oh and mysticmonk. Chill, oh, by the way, Mysticmonk is called Brad in RL. HAhaha. No, just messing brad. HAve fun. And back to studying I go. That's one thing I really hate about university. MIDTERMS. For all you 12th graders out there, enjoy your life now.
Dalton Onestone 02-01-05, 12:51 AM	I think we need some humor to get our minds off of the whole horse issue. Luckily, I happen to be the butt of several jokes on a regular basis. I sing baritone, or high bass, in the men's choir at my college. Ever since I joined, I have been making light-hearted jokes at the expense of the tenors. This semester, however, we are singing a song which requires counter-tenors (men who sing even higher than tenors, if you can believe it!). Guess who's now singing counter-tenor. It certainly seems that irony slapped me across the face pretty hard. Have you ever sung the Carmina Burana? I'm not much of a choral singer (can't easily read bass clef), but I still wound up as a baritone in a pretty good chorus singing that piece. Well, near the end there's a long fermata, and a huge crescendo on the fermata, which starts pretty loud -- and four five of the eight parts, it's the highest note in the piece. That's where I learned what falsetto is, and not coincidentally what vocal pain is ... Just the D above middle C, if I recall correctly; maybe as high as G. But for me, that was definitely falsetto range ... Too bad I recently learned that Carl Orff was a serious Nazi. It's taken a lot of the joy out of the piece for me. I used to go to annual open sightsingings of it when I lived in Manhattan ...
Snommelp 02-01-05, 12:55 AM	Sorry, Dalton, never heard of it. I'm a trombonist; singing's just a hobby. I do know this, though: if that D was falsetto for you, you ain't no baritone, you're a bass!
Dalton Onestone 02-01-05, 01:04 AM	Sorry, Dalton, never heard of it. I'm a trombonist; singing's just a hobby. I do know this, though: if that D was falsetto for you, you ain't no baritone, you're a bass! My range was about an octave and a half.
Sindorin 02-01-05, 01:12 AM	I have been poking around waiting for fights to show up. I was looking at the phrenic creature template... +4 to charisma, eh? perhaps Cliche will make his return... with a 26 or so charisma. Edit: Dromites are naturally psionic and cannot be phrenic... whatever I don't think it would be that great, but it sure would be funny. To me. Wait. I am bored. Good night, all... :rolleyes:
Druid Roxors 02-01-05, 10:21 AM	Nt
Huan 02-01-05, 10:32 AM	That's one thing I really hate about university. MIDTERMS. For all you 12th graders out there, enjoy your life now. I hear you...Same boat over here... keep up the fight. (man, high school was so easy, so any high schoolers out there better not gripe)
T'Var 02-01-05, 10:36 AM	That's one thing I really hate about university. MIDTERMS. For all you 12th graders out there, enjoy your life now. I hear you...Same boat over here... keep up the fight. (man, high school was so easy, so any high schoolers out there better not gripe) Bah to both of ya, wait till your out in the real world and have to work (btw 9-5 is a joke, get ready for 7:30am-6:45pm)
Pittbull 02-01-05, 10:45 AM	Nice to be your own boss and have a private computer at work! :D Enjoy studying it's the coolest time!! :cool:
Druid Roxors 02-01-05, 10:51 AM	I really wish I could make something more of a post but, as always, the chains of time bind me to a tight schedule. Medical School is no joke and I am not going to pretend it is. This is the main reason why I left Gladius and I wanted to file my apologies to those whose fights involved my characters and whose fights were to be run by me. I do not know if I will return, at least not in the mean time, but I wanted to congratulate everyone on your work with Living Gladius and wish this board the best :).
Pittbull 02-01-05, 10:55 AM	Have fun studying medicine, you'll see that it isn't so tough as it seems to be right now. You'll get used it and then... you'll be very welcome to visit Gladius again! :)
Beldin 02-01-05, 01:38 PM	pffft medicine....
Huan 02-01-05, 02:04 PM	Bah to both of ya, wait till your out in the real world and have to work (btw 9-5 is a joke, get ready for 7:30am-6:45pm) Heh, one step ahead of you ... I already work and am putting myself through college... not fun (and yet I still find time to write stories ... btw, no I am not an English or Journalism major... writing is just a hobby)
Kaigan 02-01-05, 02:42 PM	@Beldin: Don't diss Medicine. I myself am hoping to get into dentistry. @Huan: I must applaude you, in both getting yourself through college and spending a lot of time here at the CoCo. Lol, Such a busy week.
T'Var 02-01-05, 03:00 PM	@Beldin: Don't diss Medicine. I myself am hoping to get into dentistry. wait...you Want to become the worlds most hated profession? **hears a drill sound and runs in terror**
Huan 02-01-05, 03:15 PM	wait...you Want to become the worlds most hated profession? **hears a drill sound and runs in terror** Most hated profession... I thought that was the US President. He's always getting ragged on.
T'Var 02-01-05, 03:33 PM	Most hated profession... I thought that was the US President. He's always getting ragged on. Naw, 52% of us love the Prez, but id say 85%+ fear/hate the dentist
Sindorin 02-01-05, 03:40 PM	hmm. I didn't realize we had so many dentists here. interesting.
SnarkHunter 02-01-05, 04:29 PM	Zactor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5180446&postcount=60) would like to come to terms with the Draconic dreams he has been having eventually finding the truth that he has Black Dragon blood in his veins (PrC Dragon Disciple beginning) Hey T'var, if you'd still like to sign up for that quest I'd be happy to put something together. A couple questions real quick though: how did you plan to get the 8 ranks in Knowledge Arcana? Or the Langauge: draconic? Bard might not be a bad idear... Also let me know if there where any weapons or items you'd like to quest for as well (Not sure how that is supposed to work to be honest...)
T'Var 02-01-05, 04:56 PM	Hey T'var, if you'd still like to sign up for that quest I'd be happy to put something together. A couple questions real quick though: how did you plan to get the 8 ranks in Knowledge Arcana? Or the Langauge: draconic? Bard might not be a bad idear... Also let me know if there where any weapons or items you'd like to quest for as well (Not sure how that is supposed to work to be honest...) actually i had though about taking 2 levels of bard, get some songs, skills and clw's :) also, on the last bit, since my bow is already magic, wouldnt mind finding a +1 mithral chainshirt (cost 2250gp which is a quite a bit less than the 2700gp bow that is already being quested for)
One_Winged_Angel 02-01-05, 05:53 PM	I need to make a public announcement on this. My PM box is appearantly messed up beyond reason. I had trouble with fights sending and recieving tactics. If anyone wants to contact me, if the information is important, please do so via E-mail. I don't have blocks on it except stuff I store as spam adresses. On a lighter note, everyone meet my latest archer, who will likely replace Lia. Aloran Windseer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5194996&postcount=135) will be ready for tommrrows pairings. BTW, anyone wants to quest, you can E-mail me.
Naerdaloth 02-01-05, 07:17 PM	I will also be running a quest.. anyone who would like to apply for a Feb. 9 quest, please link to sheet and give motivations. Note: I would prefer if the participant have some kind of IM service (i have AIM, Yahoo, and MSN) to discuss things
Jindl 02-01-05, 09:01 PM	@Snark, Cat, and Ash - Why do the quests have EL 2 in their titles, if they are for an ECL 3 character? Doesn't the character face EL 3 encounters during the quest?
SnarkHunter 02-01-05, 09:06 PM	@Jindl, I'm just following tradition :) My guess would be that 3 ~EL3 encounters would probably murder a loan PC. Unless they were really good anyway... @Naer, I expect to have 2-3 characters advance to level 4 this week so I was thinking of trying for an ECL 3 adventure at somepoint. I'd just have to decide with whom and what to quest for.
Jindl 02-01-05, 09:16 PM	a loan PC. Hrm, a borrowed character... yes, yes, I see what you mean.
SnarkHunter 02-01-05, 09:41 PM	... Yes Jindl. The PC was in the shop you see. So they gave him a loaner. I hear it smelled like cigars and urine.
Sindorin 02-01-05, 11:32 PM	I need to make a public announcement on this. My PM box is appearantly messed up beyond reason. I had trouble with fights sending and recieving tactics. If anyone wants to contact me, if the information is important, please do so via E-mail. I don't have blocks on it except stuff I store as spam adresses. On a lighter note, everyone meet my latest archer, who will likely replace Lia. Aloran Windseer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5194996&postcount=135) will be ready for tommrrows pairings. BTW, anyone wants to quest, you can E-mail me. Let me know if you would like Keth to have a rematch with Sokai. Winning like that didn't really set well with me.
scaryfroman 02-01-05, 11:33 PM	I will also be running a quest.. anyone who would like to apply for a Feb. 9 quest, please link to sheet and give motivations. Note: I would prefer if the participant have some kind of IM service (i have AIM, Yahoo, and MSN) to discuss things Prospective quest: Dagrar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5185991&postcount=105) has traveled far from the north to search for his father, who abandoned his tribe last year (Ragnarr, my char from classic COCO). He had gotten word of a problem from a wandering traveler (Sir Anton, another char from classic COCO). Arriving in Gladius, Ragnarr was nowhere to be found, although people had heard of him and were still talking about his last fight versus a man named Luken. The rumor was that Ragnarr had left to fulfill some sort of prophesy. Dagrar has no idea what that is, but he was told to search for the Ferrim Trifecta, an item consisting of three powerful jewels; a ruby, a sapphire, and an emerald (actually 3 1pp cognizance crystals), that when united would assist him in finding his father. The result is worth 3000gp, a little more than fighting would get him, but not by much. I have a lot of story for this, too, if it would help. Another question: Is deep crystal considered stone or metal for dwarven crafting purposes?
One_Winged_Angel 02-01-05, 11:37 PM	Let me know if you would like Keth to have a rematch with Sokai. Winning like that didn't really set well with me. Perhaps, but not this week. I have some work to do yet on good ol' Keth. Maybe in a few weeks? I hope he can be better by level 3, but that's a while to wait.
Snommelp 02-02-05, 02:55 AM	Two things: 1) I would like to eventually make a troll character. I know this will cost me credits, but I can't find the credit cost. Any projections on how long I'll have to wait and how many credits I'll have to spend? 2) The picture of me in the World thread is now outdated. That's right; I got my hair cut.
Pittbull 02-02-05, 03:04 AM	Two things: 1) I would like to eventually make a troll character. I know this will cost me credits, but I can't find the credit cost. Any projections on how long I'll have to wait and how many credits I'll have to spend? 2) The picture of me in the World thread is now outdated. That's right; I got my hair cut. 1) As I know, you have to pay 4 credits for every level above 3, that means: 4 for level 4, 8 for level 5, 12 for level 6 ..... 2) Nice! :D
Solmund 02-02-05, 06:58 AM	so wait, by credits do you mean gold? :confused:
T'Var 02-02-05, 08:18 AM	so wait, by credits do you mean gold? :confused: no, you earn credits by pitlording fights every week
Dalton Onestone 02-02-05, 08:30 AM	My new character GrandElf the Gray is up, on Page 5 of the characters thread. Which is to say at: http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5192558&postcount=129 He's not too unlike Yagre and especially Ringelhut, now both retired after a single bout each, but there are a couple of new twists. I also hope the character sheet has fewer errors and omissions than before. He also has at least a little personality, unlike them. His fog-gray horse is named Alberich der Nebeljungen. :) Also, a question. If you try to deliver a touch spell, and miss on the melee touch attack, do you hold it so that you can try again next round? Or is it expended/dissipated/whatever?
Jindl 02-02-05, 08:41 AM	Another question: Is deep crystal considered stone or metal for dwarven crafting purposes? Yes, it is considered metal (which is why druids can't wear deep crystal armor). -Jindl
Dalton Onestone 02-02-05, 08:43 AM	Another question -- how is Entangle handled for mounted gladiators? I could argue either that it doesn't affect a rider unless he dismounts or that he's separately entangled apart from whatever might affect his horse. (But if it's latter surely the horse can help him break free.) I think in the case of Black Tentacles there's no such ambiguity -- rider and horse both are grappled.
Pittbull 02-02-05, 09:04 AM	Entangle Transmutation Level: Drd 1, Plant 1, Rgr 1 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) Area: Plants in a 40-ft.-radius spread Duration: 1 min./level (D) Saving Throw: Reflex partial; see text Spell Resistance: No Grasses, weeds, bushes, and even trees wrap, twist, and entwine about creatures in the area or those that enter the area, holding them fast and causing them to become entangled. The creature can break free and move half its normal speed by using a full-round action to make a DC 20 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check. A creature that succeeds on a Reflex save is not entangled but can still move at only half speed through the area. Each round on your turn, the plants once again attempt to entangle all creatures that have avoided or escaped entanglement. Note: The effects of the spell may be altered somewhat, based on the nature of the entangling plants. I would say, both are affected, since they aren't flying. But with a succesful ride and strength-check of the horse, both will be free. :)
Jindl 02-02-05, 09:11 AM	I would say, both are affected, since they aren't flying. But with a succesful ride and strength-check of the horse, both will be free. :) Nope. Treat them as two creatures that share the same space (just like a wizard and his familiar). If only one is entangled, the other can still move. If only one breaks free, only it can move away (if this happens to be the horse, the rider would me unseated if it moved away). Entangle is a very effective way to deal with mounted opponents. -Jindl
T'Var 02-02-05, 09:16 AM	Nope. Treat them as two creatures that share the same space (just like a wizard and his familiar). If only one is entangled, the other can still move. If only one breaks free, only it can move away (if this happens to be the horse, the rider would me unseated if it moved away). Entangle is a very effective way to deal with mounted opponents. -Jindl however, if the horse is free the rider can make a HA push check (dc20) to have the horse assist the rider in a str check I would say which would take a move action from the mount and both a move action then full round action from the rider, but if successful would allow both to escape
Jindl 02-02-05, 09:22 AM	however, if the horse is free the rider can make a HA push check (dc20) to have the horse assist the rider in a str check I would say which would take a move action from the mount and both a move and standerd action from the rider, but if successful would allow both to escape I don't think a HA push check would be necessary (since it is normal for a horse to carry his rider from one place to another). However, for the horse (who already has to be free) to assist the still entangled rider, it would be treated like any creature trying to assist an entangled subject. Both use a full-round action to make a Str check (rider at DC 20, horse at DC 10 to assist). If the horse passes, the rider gets a +2 on his check. If the rider passes, they are both free and can move half their normal speed as part of the same full-round action (per the Entangle spell description.) Of course, if the horse is free and the rider is entangled, the horse still has to make a reflex save every round spent within the entangle affect, to avoid becoming entangled. -Jindl
Pittbull 02-02-05, 09:23 AM	Yes, that's cool! :thumbsup:
Dalton Onestone 02-02-05, 09:35 AM	Also, a question. If you try to deliver a touch spell, and miss on the melee touch attack, do you hold it so that you can try again next round? Or is it expended/dissipated/whatever? Does anybody have a compelling answer? :)
Dalton Onestone 02-02-05, 09:38 AM	I don't think a HA push check would be necessary (since it is normal for a horse to carry his rider from one place to another). However, for the horse (who already has to be free) to assist the still entangled rider, it would be treated like any creature trying to assist an entangled subject. Both use a full-round action to make a Str check (rider at DC 20, horse at DC 10 to assist). If the horse passes, the rider gets a +2 on his check. If the rider passes, they are both free and can move half their normal speed (per the Entangle spell description.) Of course, if the horse is free and the rider is entangled, the horse still has to make a reflex save every round spent within the entangle affect, to avoid becoming entangled. -Jindl Makes sense to me, although as I read it breaking free AND moving taken together is a full-round action.
T'Var 02-02-05, 09:49 AM	Does anybody have a compelling answer? :) I beleive you lose the spell if you fail to make the touch attack
Jindl 02-02-05, 10:02 AM	Makes sense to me, although as I read it breaking free AND moving taken together is a full-round action. Yes, that's right. I didn't mean they had to spend another action to move half their speed. I'll edit my above post to clarify this. Also, a question. If you try to deliver a touch spell, and miss on the melee touch attack, do you hold it so that you can try again next round? Or is it expended/dissipated/whatever? Touch spells are held until they are discharged (when you successfully touch an appropriate target). So, if you miss your attack roll, the charge is still held. Note that per CoCo rules, you cannot hold the charge of a touch spell as a prebuff. Another note about touch spells: Per the Official WoTC FAQ/Rules of the Game (I don't remember which at the moment), you can cast the touch spell, then take a single move, then deliver the touch spell (usually by making a touch attack) ALL IN THE SAME ROUND. So wizards don't have to worry about moving up to the creature, then casting defensively to use a touch spell. And clerics can cast cure spells before moving into melee to heal the tank. -Jindl
Pittbull 02-02-05, 10:18 AM	@ Jindl and Snarkhunter: Please tell us your oppinion to the "Grapple Riders"-issue. I see no progress in this discussion. Do you wait for anything or anybody (Magagumo?).
Dalton Onestone 02-02-05, 10:27 AM	Another note about touch spells: Per the Official WoTC FAQ/Rules of the Game (I don't remember which at the moment), you can cast the touch spell, then take a single move, then deliver the touch spell (usually by making a touch attack) ALL IN THE SAME ROUND. So wizards don't have to worry about moving up to the creature, then casting defensively to use a touch spell. And clerics can cast cure spells before moving into melee to heal the tank. -Jindl I'm pretty sure that's actually in the PHB. Meanwhile, I have a minor suggestion for character sheets: List the trick instruction, if any, given to an animal ally as a prebuff. People keep saying that their horse knows the defend trick and will carry it out; well, shouldn't that be listed as a prebuff for clarity? Or else we can say it's a prebuff that's assumed by default, which is pretty much how things are now.
T'Var 02-02-05, 10:30 AM	I'm pretty sure that's actually in the PHB. Meanwhile, I have a minor suggestion for character sheets: List the trick instruction, if any, given to an animal ally as a prebuff. People keep saying that their horse knows the defend trick and will carry it out; well, shouldn't that be listed as a prebuff for clarity? Or else we can say it's a prebuff that's assumed by default, which is pretty much how things are now. tricks are not prebuffs, they are known skills, like swinging a sword. or ride skill. tricks need to be listed, but not in the prebuff section
Dalton Onestone 02-02-05, 10:41 AM	tricks are not prebuffs, they are known skills, like swinging a sword. or ride skill. tricks need to be listed, but not in the prebuff section I was wrong. The description of the "Defend" trick explicitly says that no command needs to be given. My error was not knowing that.
Caterane 02-02-05, 11:56 AM	@Snark, Cat, and Ash - Why do the quests have EL 2 in their titles, if they are for an ECL 3 character? Doesn't the character face EL 3 encounters during the quest? Three EL 2 encounters are already tough for a ECL 3 character, as we've seen last week. Of course, the EL is completely up to the player. If someone requests an EL 3 (or more) quest, he gets one but that character should better be confident in his abilities. Now that we are just testing quests, we'd like to go with the default EL but if Jindl of the High Forest feels like taking on a higher EL, I'd love to be your questlord :devil: @Brian/Huan: you don't have to stop posting once the encounter is over. We can put this extra time to good use and proceed with the next fight; roleplaying if nothing else. Important is to finish the whole quest in 3 weeks. If you finish sooner, that's not a bad thing (of course you still cannot fight in the arena until the quest is officially finished).
SnarkHunter 02-02-05, 01:23 PM	Would an EL1+El2+El3 be equivalent to 3 EL 2 encounters? I was just thinking of tweaking the model a bit. Edit: Upon consultation I think I'll go with 3 EL2's so as not to be the first (probably) DM to kill a PC on a quest in the CoCo. :P
Naerdaloth 02-02-05, 07:12 PM	I'll probably make a decision on a quest participant Friday night or early Saturday, so Snark if you can find an applicant by then that would be great. @Snommelp: I rather liked the prospect of undead hunting, your request for Cedric a few pages back. Are you still interested?
Snommelp 02-02-05, 07:16 PM	I am indeed still interested. And it's not like Cedric has anything better to do, seeing as he's a healer build in a one-on-one arena.
Huan 02-02-05, 08:10 PM	Three EL 2 encounters are already tough for a ECL 3 character, as we've seen last week. Of course, the EL is completely up to the player. If someone requests an EL 3 (or more) quest, he gets one but that character should better be confident in his abilities. Now that we are just testing quests, we'd like to go with the default EL but if Jindl of the High Forest feels like taking on a higher EL, I'd love to be your questlord :devil: @Brian/Huan: you don't have to stop posting once the encounter is over. We can put this extra time to good use and proceed with the next fight; roleplaying if nothing else. Important is to finish the whole quest in 3 weeks. If you finish sooner, that's not a bad thing (of course you still cannot fight in the arena until the quest is officially finished). Sure, I understand ... now if this elf would only talk back to me... *Nell taps him, he falls over -> a cardboard cut-out!*
Arstimis 02-02-05, 10:52 PM	Well, Sindorin, I guess its me vs. you for both my fights Goodluck, i know i'll need it
xanadu 02-03-05, 12:36 AM	Hey folks, wonder if someone can answer a question regarding mounts and companions. Can you start off you mount and use a handle animal check to relay to the heavy warhorse you want it to attack any enemy it finds (and will it activly seek even if the bad guy goes invisible or something) and send it on autopilot so to speak? Or does one have to be mounted (and stay mounted) to communicate to the creature these intentions?
cellardweller 02-03-05, 01:06 AM	A warhorse can be instructed to perform any trick it knows with a DC10 handle animal check. An off the shelf warhorse knows the combat riding suite (attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel). In short, yes you can tell them to attack. No, they won't seek (but they can be pushed to seek with a DC20 check).
LLMadCow 02-03-05, 02:57 AM	Upon consultation I think I'll go with 3 EL2's so as not to be the first (probably) DM to kill a PC on a quest in the CoCo. :P Oh, don't be so sure that Caterane The Crit! Commander won't kill Oz. I am so very aware that Cat is doing his best to put the GRIM in PilGRIMage. Did anyone else see all those Natural 20s rolled by stupid goblins? HI CAT!
Sindorin 02-03-05, 08:42 AM	Well, Sindorin, I guess its me vs. you for both my fights Goodluck, i know i'll need it Yep, you too... I bet Britknee is getting tired of my antics by now.
Dalton Onestone 02-03-05, 11:27 AM	because of the default Defend trick, my horse should be attacking Klaxon whenever it's next to him. Yet another horse question. I took the above from tactics of one of Ash's characters in a prior fight. I don't think it's right unless the opponent is actively meleeing. Thoughts?
T'Var 02-03-05, 11:37 AM	because of the default Defend trick, my horse should be attacking Klaxon whenever it's next to him. Yet another horse question. I took the above from tactics of one of Ash's characters in a prior fight. I don't think it's right unless the opponent is actively meleeing. Thoughts? once an animal is in a fight it fights to the death unless called off by the 'Down' trick or calmed by another effect once the defend trick has been activated the animal is fighting and therefor will continue to fight unless activly stopped by the rider
Dalton Onestone 02-03-05, 01:16 PM	once an animal is in a fight it fights to the death unless called off by the 'Down' trick or calmed by another effect once the defend trick has been activated the animal is fighting and therefor will continue to fight unless activly stopped by the rider My point is that somebody has to engage in a melee attack against the rider/master before the defend trick is activated. Right or wrong? Surely a horse wouldn't attack any armed rider who approached the rider but hadn't yet offered any other clear provocation? Unless, of course, it's been trained a little differently from other horses. I don't care either way. I have one gladiator who benefits from a liberal interpretation of what militant horses do and another who benefits from a more conservative interpretation.
T'Var 02-03-05, 01:47 PM	My point is that somebody has to engage in a melee attack against the rider/master before the defend trick is activated. Right or wrong? Surely a horse wouldn't attack any armed rider who approached the rider but hadn't yet offered any other clear provocation? Unless, of course, it's been trained a little differently from other horses. I don't care either way. I have one gladiator who benefits from a liberal interpretation of what militant horses do and another who benefits from a more conservative interpretation. any attack melee/ranged/spell directed at either the mount or its rider will trigger the defend trick
Snommelp 02-03-05, 01:52 PM	any attack melee/ranged/spell directed at either the mount or its rider will trigger the defend trick Any attack? Even if it comes from something the animal wouldn't attack normally, like undead or abberations? The PHB isn't very clear on that point...
T'Var 02-03-05, 01:57 PM	Any attack? Even if it comes from something the animal wouldn't attack normally, like undead or abberations? The PHB isn't very clear on that point... You are correct, normal limitations apply. it would flee from those creatures who airnt 'natural' or not trained to do so
Snommelp 02-03-05, 02:03 PM	Curses! That means that, if Cedric hunts undead, he'll have to be constantly pushing his horse into fighting! And yes, Cedric did buy the horse for fighting. Seemed logical, since Cedric is mostly a supplemental character.
T'Var 02-03-05, 02:06 PM	Curses! That means that, if Cedric hunts undead, he'll have to be constantly pushing his horse into fighting! And yes, Cedric did buy the horse for fighting. Seemed logical, since Cedric is mostly a supplemental character. i should restate the flee...without a rider it would flee. but if it is a war horse it has no problem going into battle with undead, it just wont want to attack them unless it has both attack and attack all tricks
Dalton Onestone 02-03-05, 03:08 PM	any attack melee/ranged/spell directed at either the mount or its rider will trigger the defend trick On what do you base that ruling?
T'Var 02-03-05, 03:19 PM	On what do you base that ruling? Defend (DC 20): The animal defends you (or is ready to defend you if no threat is present), even without any command being given. Alternatively, you can command the animal to defend a specific other character. therefor any attack agaisnt you would trigger the animal into defence. and obviously any attack against the mount would make it defend itsself
Dalton Onestone 02-03-05, 05:40 PM	therefor any attack agaisnt you would trigger the animal into defence. and obviously any attack against the mount would make it defend itsself Only if the horse could recognize the attack. How could a horse recognize the source of a spell or a ranged attack? In other contexts you are the first to point out that an INT 2 horse is pretty stupid.
T'Var 02-03-05, 05:53 PM	Only if the horse could recognize the attack. How could a horse recognize the source of a spell or a ranged attack? In other contexts you are the first to point out that an INT 2 horse is pretty stupid. very true, but then being stupid is helpful, it takes damage, it is in a fight, therefor defend trick is activated....and most damaging spells (and some psionic) have visable 'tracers' a fireball is cast by throwing a small ember that explodes, lightining bolt.....and all ray spells....well that is as simple as a non-sniping archer to see where it came from. and since in 3.5 there is no 'facing' it can be assumed that you are looking in all directions in a fight, so someone attacking from the 'rear' is still seen
One_Winged_Angel 02-03-05, 05:58 PM	Only if the horse could recognize the attack. How could a horse recognize the source of a spell or a ranged attack? In other contexts you are the first to point out that an INT 2 horse is pretty stupid. Actually, INT 2 is smart for an animal. Int 1 creatures are stupid. However, I think my dog (Int 2 creature) would be able to figure out "OK, big thing flinging bright stuff killing my master" is bad. Int 1 creature, yes, are very stupid. Int 2 creatures can be clever and are more able to discern threats. Think about lions, wolves, and leapords. Very intellegent creatures able to pick out humans as being threats.
Solmund 02-03-05, 06:18 PM	does this mean i buy a warhorse?
T'Var 02-03-05, 06:21 PM	Actually, INT 2 is smart for an animal. Int 1 creatures are stupid. However, I think my dog (Int 2 creature) would be able to figure out "OK, big thing flinging bright stuff killing my master" is bad. Int 1 creature, yes, are very stupid. Int 2 creatures can be clever and are more able to discern threats. Think about lions, wolves, and leapords. Very intellegent creatures able to pick out humans as being threats. very true, int 1 are like snakes which only have the basic 'Hungery' 'Scared' 'Angery' type of thought but all int 2 animals are rather smart, just not intelegent large difference. want to test it? go out and find a strangers dog. be about 30-60 feet from it and chuck a rock at it (now before i get hate mail i dont actually mean for anyone to do this just stating a point) even if your not the only one around and even if you dont hit, that dog is going to realize it was under attack and will either flee, or become angery and attack depending on its current status (the more wild it has become the more opt it is to defend its self)
T'Var 02-03-05, 06:22 PM	does this mean i buy a warhorse? you can buy one yes, a warhorse is listed under 'equipment' in the player handbook or in the SRD there are heavy and light
Dalton Onestone 02-03-05, 08:10 PM	I think if I chucked a rock at a dog's master it wouldn't know that I had attacked. I think if a dog's master and I exchanged very angry words, approached each other, and were about to come to blows the dog would growl and snap and expect a fight, but it wouldn't attack me until the master or I had attacked each other first. And spells are anyway a more subtle effect than chucking rocks; nobody ever has to make a "Rockcraft" check to know what's being thrown at them.
One_Winged_Angel 02-03-05, 09:47 PM	I think if I chucked a rock at a dog's master it wouldn't know that I had attacked. I think if a dog's master and I exchanged very angry words, approached each other, and were about to come to blows the dog would growl and snap and expect a fight, but it wouldn't attack me until the master or I had attacked each other first. And spells are anyway a more subtle effect than chucking rocks; nobody ever has to make a "Rockcraft" check to know what's being thrown at them. The problem with that idea is, yah, we don't understand how dogs would react to magic because (unless you are a member of the occult, which, I hope for your sake, you are not) no one can use magic in real life. Still, the idea that "Hey, a big honking lightning bolt just came from that dude's general direction and killed my master" would likely be enough. Still, if you have ever read "Call of the Wild" (and if you haven't, DON'T. Sooooo boring), you find out that dogs are actually very intellegent animals. Dogs have been known to actually track down people who they know killed their masters and attack them. I imagine it is the same with a horse. Some warhorses, especially those trained for nobles or royalty, would simply attack anyone who was not their master or specific groomer. You can imagine this led to all sorts of hell when one died. Anyway, I think that animals capable of learning the trick defend are justified if their master is hurt to attack the closest creature, at the very least.
xanadu 02-04-05, 02:27 AM	want to test it? go out and find a strangers dog. be about 30-60 feet from it and chuck a rock at it (now before i get hate mail i dont actually mean for anyone to do this just stating a point) even if your not the only one around and even if you dont hit, that dog is going to realize it was under attack and will either flee, or become angery and attack depending on its current status (the more wild it has become the more opt it is to defend its self) :D :D
Dalton Onestone 02-04-05, 06:07 AM	My cat flees whenever he sees somebody walking around with a grocery bag or trash bag. Then from safety he evaluates the situation. I guess I've known dogs that would attack anyone intruding on their personal space, and while those dogs took their time about attacking I can conceive of one trained not to hesitate. And I guess in a city devoted to gladiatorial combat animals trained that way would be available for sale. Still, I hope nobody takes a warhorse that behaves that way in the arena out on a quest, or else it will attack every passerby absent a specific order not to. But I also think that with the problem of warhorses being overpowered at lower levels anyway, it might be best to be a little more realistic and say they don't attack until there's not just a threat but a clearcut attack. I don't think warhorses in the Middle Ages spontaneously attacked without at least some kind of delay.
T'Var 02-04-05, 09:30 AM	while its hard to imagin what a warhorse would act like (as horses havent been trained for war is quite a while) I think if them in terms of todays pitbull, or a Rot. when trained for battle, they are just fine around strangers as long as there owner is with them, but when they feel something hostle has happened to them or there master they turn into compleatly different creatures. Rots, expecially have two personallitys when trained for aggression. when there master is calm, they are calm. but once something aggressive or harmful happens to themselfs or there master, Everyone But their master or members of their pack (usually including those people who is always close to their master whom the dog begins to think of as family) is an enemy I think the same would be true for a warhorse. it might not know who harmed it as per a spell that has no tracer, or a sniper, but any who the horse does not consider Master or family becomes an enemy. and it is up to the rider to either let the mount attack on its own (defend), or direct its aggression (attack)
One_Winged_Angel 02-04-05, 09:54 AM	My cat flees whenever he sees somebody walking around with a grocery bag or trash bag. Then from safety he evaluates the situation. I guess I've known dogs that would attack anyone intruding on their personal space, and while those dogs took their time about attacking I can conceive of one trained not to hesitate. And I guess in a city devoted to gladiatorial combat animals trained that way would be available for sale. I've known cat's like that. I've also known the type that scratchs, bites, and otherwise makes the visitor in a vast amount of pain. First hand type experience. My dog will bark at anyone she deems a threat. (i.e. everyone) Still, I hope nobody takes a warhorse that behaves that way in the arena out on a quest, or else it will attack every passerby absent a specific order not to. And why not? As I stated before, some horses were trained to attack anyone but their rider and groom. These horses were simply always confined to their own stables and not allowed visitors. However, there were some trained to fight in combat and only in combat. Horses could tell it was combat by the smell of blood, the sound of shouts, or just when the animal was excited. As long as the rider was on it, the horse was fine. As soon as the rider dismounted, the horse would attack whoever was around it but stay close to it's master trying to protect it (defend). Captured horses were recorded to occasionally do anything from bite anyone around them to actually round other captured horses away from their captors. (Varying form of attack, I suppose...) But I also think that with the problem of warhorses being overpowered at lower levels anyway, :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: it might be best to be a little more realistic and say they don't attack until there's not just a threat but a clearcut attack. I don't think warhorses in the Middle Ages spontaneously attacked without at least some kind of delay. See above. Yes, they would. If they sense their rider was knocked off, they would attack everyone in an attempt to defend their fallen master. There is a reason cavelry traveled separatly from the rest of the forces. Imagine what might happen if a rider fell off on accident.
Jindl 02-04-05, 10:27 AM	While you guys continue your discussion of historical and modern day animals, I do want to make sure you are clear on the DnD rules (which often are quite different than what we experience in real life). In DnD, actions are either attacks or not attacks. The best *test* of whether an action is an attack, is the invisibility test. If the action would end an invisibility spell, it was an attack. The Defend trick is very simple. The animal will attack anything that has attacked its master or itself. If the opponent breaks off combat, the animal will allow it to flee (unlike the Attack trick, where the animal continues to try and attack the opponent). The Defend trick is not subject to the type limitations that the Attack trick is subject to ... self defense isn't picky. Please understand that these are the rules, regardless of how intelligent you think a warhorse (or other animal that knows the defend trick) is. -Jindl
Snommelp 02-04-05, 11:59 AM	Wait... so a warhorse will fight back against an unnatural creature, like a zombie, but only if the zombie attacks first? I want to make sure I get this right.
Dalton Onestone 02-04-05, 02:10 PM	Speaking of animals, does Hide From Animals work vs. anything Summon Nature's Ally summons? Like hippogriffs, which are magical beasts?
Sindorin 02-04-05, 02:16 PM	I think at this point we need an "Animals" thread. Animals are obviously such a complex anomaly in D&D...
Dalton Onestone 02-04-05, 02:34 PM	I think at this point we need an "Animals" thread. Animals are obviously such a complex anomaly in D&D... What they are is a deciding factor in a large fraction of all fights right now.
Sindorin 02-04-05, 02:54 PM	What they are is a deciding factor in a large fraction of all fights right now. Yes, that too. The reason I used the term 'anomaly' was because it seems that there are so many rules discrepancies between what an animal should and should not do. It's simply because we are not used to thinking in terms of an int 1 or 2 creature.
T'Var 02-04-05, 02:59 PM	Speaking of animals, does Hide From Animals work vs. anything Summon Nature's Ally summons? Like hippogriffs, which are magical beasts? Hide from Animals Abjuration Level: Drd 1, Rgr 1 Components: S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Targets: One creature touched/level Duration: 10 min./level (D) Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes Animals cannot see, hear, or smell the warded creatures. Even extraordinary or supernatural sensory capabilities, such as blindsense, blindsight, scent, and tremorsense, cannot detect or locate warded creatures. Animals simply act as though the warded creatures are not there. If a warded character touches an animal or attacks any creature, even with a spell, the spell ends for all recipients. Animals and Magical Beasts are Different subtype creatures since it only stats that Animals cannot detect warded creatures magical beasts are immune from such an effect
Dalton Onestone 02-04-05, 03:44 PM	Animals and Magical Beasts are Different subtype creatures since it only stats that Animals cannot detect warded creatures magical beasts are immune from such an effect I think you are correct. The tables for Summon Nature's Ally options identify some creatures as animals, suggesting that the others aren't. Besides, you can summon an elemental with the spell, which certainly is not an animal ... Sorry. One of my stupider questions.
One_Winged_Angel 02-04-05, 05:04 PM	I think what we need is a vote. The idea of horses being limited or not is a factor that needs to be considered. IMHO, the Elder's should vote first, then send it down to us lowly subjects. This is something that perhaps the Elder's might want to consider letting everyone have a fair say in. After all, this will have an impact on a lot of characters. Summoned creatures are outsiders, as they are summoned from another plane. At the very least, they are magical beasts, so therefore, I don't think hide from animals has an effect on them. I would again like to point out the idea of treating horses as expendible items that must be replaced at full price. It's how we used to do things, and I don't think it's such a horrible idea.
Jindl 02-04-05, 05:13 PM	Summoned creatures are outsiders, as they are summoned from another plane. At the very least, they are magical beasts, so therefore, I don't think hide from animals has an effect on them. Summoned creatures are whatever type is listed in the MM entry. A fiendish small viper summoned by a wizard is a magical beast. A brown bear summoned by a druid is an animal. Hide from animals would work against the summoned brown bear, but not against the summoned fiendish small viper. Protection from (law, chaos, evil) would work against both, but Protection from good would only work against the bear (because, as an evil summoned creature, the fiendish small viper is immune to the effects of a protection from good.) Clear?
Pitlords 02-04-05, 05:17 PM	A new issue is up in the Elder's Council concerning sneaking. There are also still 2 other votes who need to be resolved. Please [Elders] make your vote! Thanks.
One_Winged_Angel 02-04-05, 05:20 PM	Summoned creatures are whatever type is listed in the MM entry. A fiendish small viper summoned by a wizard is a magical beast. A brown bear summoned by a druid is an animal. Hide from animals would work against the summoned brown bear, but not against the summoned fiendish small viper. Protection from (law, chaos, evil) would work against both, but Protection from good would only work against the bear (because, as an evil summoned creature, the fiendish small viper is immune to the effects of a protection from good.) Clear? Whoops. The discussion was on summon nature's ally. I thought we were talking about summon monster, in which the creature is nearly always an outsider. Sorry for my confusion and general idiocy.
Jindl 02-04-05, 05:36 PM	Whoops. The discussion was on summon nature's ally. I thought we were talking about summon monster, in which the creature is nearly always an outsider. Sorry for my confusion and general idiocy. My apologies if my response came across a little harsh. The 18 million things going on around me are stressing me out. Time for a weekend, and a Corona. :D
One_Winged_Angel 02-04-05, 06:15 PM	My apologies if my response came across a little harsh. The 18 million things going on around me are stressing me out. Time for a weekend, and a Corona. :D Don't lose any sleep over it. Man, I know exactly how that feels. Cept I can't drink... Sigh. Guess I'll just have to settle for Mountain Dew. The official drink of nerds! :pint:
Jindl 02-05-05, 10:51 AM	A new issue is up in the Elder's Council concerning sneaking. There are also still 2 other votes who need to be resolved. Please [Elders] make your vote! Thanks. @LL/Cellar/Snark - Please continue checking the Elder Forum. I appreciate the conversation we are having there (within our single posts), so please check back often to see what else has been said. If our conversation seems to be going nowhere, then I suppose we can just tally the votes. But we really should try to agree on a majority decision, rather than 1 vote here, 1 vote there, and 2 votes in another place. -Jindl
Pitlords 02-05-05, 11:07 AM	Well said Jindl. Perhaps an Elders Forum wouldn't be a bad idea
cellardweller 02-05-05, 11:33 AM	A large roadblock to getting majority decisions is multiple choice. With only 4 active elders getting a clear majority is difficult unless either need either a) The question is reworded to be a series of yes/no's; or b) they are voted on using the preferential system (ie the elders list all options in order of preference). One more elder would make a world of difference too.
One_Winged_Angel 02-05-05, 12:30 PM	Question to all: Do we have any rules concerning owning/crafting/making intellegent items? It was just a curiosity. I assume we can buy specific ones, but what about custom ones?
Jindl 02-05-05, 12:57 PM	@Pitlords/Elders - After reading some of the points made on the Grappling a Mounted Target debate, I'm not really satisfied with the choices we have to pick from. I had a suggestion for another choice, which I think may be the best solution: The main issue seems to be whether the grappler can enter the space shared by the mount+rider in order to continue the grapple. I think not, because the mount isn't part of the grapple it can't be in the grappling space, and the grappler can't move into its space. You think that the grappler should be considered "mounted" and thus allowed to enter the mount's space. But perhaps there is another alternative. Perhaps the grappler should have to win a grapple check against both the mount and the rider (as if it was grappling them both simultaneously). If the grappler wins, it could move into the space shared by the rider+mount, becuase they are all now grappling. This makes sense to me, because it should be more difficult to grapple someone who is mounted. It also makes sense with the Aku scenario above, because Behir-Aku would be grappling both the dog and the halfling. What do you think? Please see the Elders Forum for the full discussion. @Cellar - I agree that we need another Elder, to replace Magagumo, who has been inactive for more than 3 months. Perhaps we should nominate a replacement (both Pittbull and Beldin spring to mind as people that have been here a long time and would make pretty good Elders)?
Jindl 02-05-05, 12:58 PM	Question to all: Do we have any rules concerning owning/crafting/making intellegent items? It was just a curiosity. I assume we can buy specific ones, but what about custom ones? Intelligent items have been disallowed since we first discussed them more than a year ago. The main problem is that they are randomly designed, and we have no method of doing this, whether you purchase them or craft them. Still, I'd love to see them incorporated, if we can get around this problem. -Jindl
One_Winged_Angel 02-05-05, 01:00 PM	Intelligent items have been disallowed since we first discussed them more than a year ago. The main problem is that they are randomly designed, and we have no method of doing this, whether you purchase them or craft them. Still, I'd love to see them incorporated, if we can get around this problem. -Jindl There are pre-generated examples of intellegent items. Those might be fun to incorporate, no?
Jindl 02-05-05, 01:05 PM	There are pre-generated examples of intellegent items. Those might be fun to incorporate, no? Those are unique items. So how do we allow one PC to have it, and not allow anyone else to have that item? IMO, there's no fair way of incorporating the pregenerated items. -Jindl
Snommelp 02-05-05, 02:13 PM	Intelligent items do have price listings for their composite parts, so creating custom intelligent items as a player isn't too difficult. It should be relatively balanced, as well. The only problem I see is how the character gets the item. This could be done by questing, and I'm sure there are other options out there. I would like to see intelligent items in CoCo as well. In fact, I was hoping to give Cedric one eventually. I even worked the possibility into his character history.
One_Winged_Angel 02-05-05, 04:01 PM	Those are unique items. So how do we allow one PC to have it, and not allow anyone else to have that item? IMO, there's no fair way of incorporating the pregenerated items. -Jindl We could simply change the name. Aside from the high, high, HIGH price of intellegent items, we could factor in the item's ego somehow. I dunno. I just thought that it would be a fun idea.
Naerdaloth 02-05-05, 05:01 PM	@snommelp: just to let you know, ive decided to take cedric on the quest for the 9th. i even have a game plan already :p and a map. if you want to discuss or anything umm you have my email and IMs
Snommelp 02-05-05, 05:32 PM	Yeah, I saw the Graveyard map and figured something was up. I might be refining Cedric's sheet a bit, but that should all be done by Monday.
cellardweller 02-05-05, 10:17 PM	Re: Elders council I would like to see a change in procedures for how matters are addressed and propose the following. Step 1 - Problem definition (Time limit 10 days) A seperate thread is opened to discuss the topic. The phrasing of the question is discussed (where possible they should require yes/no answers). All relevant points that could sway a decision are presented. Input from the full CoCo community accepted. Step 2 - Voting stage 1 (Time limit 5 days) The elders tally votes. If a majority decision is made, the matter is resolved. Step 3 - Voting stage 2 (Time limit 3 days) CoCo GM's add their vote to the elders. If a majority decision is made, the matter is resolved. Step 4 - Voting stage 2 (Time limit 14 days) All CoCo members add their votes to the elders and GM's.
Naerdaloth 02-05-05, 11:07 PM	How does grappling work on a mounted opponent vs nonmounted opponent?
cellardweller 02-05-05, 11:12 PM	This very issue is before the council now. No decision has been reached yet, just look through the arguments presented there an make your own mind up for until it is.
Dalton Onestone 02-06-05, 12:46 AM	I don't know how comprehensively the sneaking issue is being debated, but I think flatfootedness in general is overdone. If you know or believe somebody is hiding in a pillar of smoke, or behind a certain rock, they shouldn't be able to emerge from where you think they are and catch you flatfooted.
T'Var 02-06-05, 12:53 AM	I don't know how comprehensively the sneaking issue is being debated, but I think flatfootedness in general is overdone. If you know or believe somebody is hiding in a pillar of smoke, or behind a certain rock, they shouldn't be able to emerge from where you think they are and catch you flatfooted. they airnt being flatfooted, the condition is more being attacked from an invis foe though the invis is do to a hide skill not a spell.
One_Winged_Angel 02-06-05, 01:03 AM	I don't know how comprehensively the sneaking issue is being debated, but I think flatfootedness in general is overdone. If you know or believe somebody is hiding in a pillar of smoke, or behind a certain rock, they shouldn't be able to emerge from where you think they are and catch you flatfooted. You can't hide if someone knows you are there. So, yah, its kinda irrational. Most of the time, flat footed is reserved for the first attack or under special conditions.
cellardweller 02-06-05, 02:14 AM	Regarding Hiding/Flatfootedness 1) You are always able to hide if you have cover or concealment. If your opponent knows what rock you are behind, it just won't do you much good as they can just walk around the rock to break your cover. 2) Your opponent is only flat footed if you are able to attack without leaving cover (typically this means a ranged attack). Unless the character’s approach remains entirely in an area where she can hide (that is, an area with sufficient cover or concealment to attempt a Hide check), the character is not considered to be hidden still when she makes the attack. The discussion in the council is not what the rules are, because everyone agrees on that. The matter at hand is that some parties (defninitely not me) believe that the core rules should be changed for the purpose of the collesium to allow a character to move between any 2 hiding places without being seen (on the matter srd specifically states "As a general guideline, the hiding place has to be within 1 foot per rank you have in Hide").
T'Var 02-06-05, 02:14 AM	You can't hide if someone knows you are there. So, yah, its kinda irrational. Most of the time, flat footed is reserved for the first attack or under special conditions. that is incorrect If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide. You can run around a corner or behind cover so that you’re out of sight and then hide, but the others then know at least where you went. so they CAN know where you are, but if you gain any concealment you can attempt to hide
One_Winged_Angel 02-06-05, 11:20 AM	that is incorrect If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide. You can run around a corner or behind cover so that you’re out of sight and then hide, but the others then know at least where you went. so they CAN know where you are, but if you gain any concealment you can attempt to hide Kinda irrelivant if the wizard hurls a fireball at your last known local. Still, I see the rule. Still, in the arena, it seems kinda stupid. You know exactly where the person is. I guess stealth builds definatly need the help, though.
SnarkHunter 02-06-05, 03:43 PM	FYI: The intro to Zactor's quest has been posted. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=373455)
Sindorin 02-06-05, 05:38 PM	Note to all: I am planning to run a quest. If you would like me to run one for one of your gladiators, please send me a PM explaining the character's motivations, aspirations, etc. I'm as of yet unsure when it would begin. Quests, I have observed, can begin and progress as they will, as long as it doesn't exceed three weeks.
OdinTheReaper 02-06-05, 06:14 PM	Who/where to i have to go to start pitlording? I would like to start so that i can earn some credits and start questing and doing fun stuff. Please let me know...i may not be able to check this until later on tonight (not because of the superbowl...i could give a crap who wins this year) because of halo and madden tourney....thanks for the help.
Beldin 02-06-05, 06:16 PM	You just have to write a pm to the pitlords account.
OdinTheReaper 02-06-05, 08:34 PM	ahh...thanks...i figured as much but i just wanted to make sure
Dalton Onestone 02-07-05, 01:30 AM	I've been trying to understand the effects of Entangle, and the story is rather, well, tangled. The spell description reads: Grasses, weeds, bushes, and even trees wrap, twist, and entwine about creatures in the area or those that enter the area, holding them fast and causing them to become entangled. The creature can break free and move half its normal speed by using a full-round action to make a DC 20 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check. A creature that succeeds on a Reflex save is not entangled but can still move at only half speed through the area. Each round on your turn, the plants once again attempt to entangle all creatures that have avoided or escaped entanglement. Note: The effects of the spell may be altered somewhat, based on the nature of the entangling plants. However, the definition of "entangled" reads: The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and a –4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell. I guess these are fairly consistent if we assume that the Entangle spell's bonds are anchored to the immobile ground. But just to confuse things further, the writeup of the Concentration skill gives the DC of a check against entanglement as being 20+spell level, not 15+spell level. Which version prevails. And am I right that being entangled does NOT cause you to lose your DEX bonus to AC? I also don't understand the basis for the assertion that two Entangle spells necessitate two separate checks to escape.
T'Var 02-07-05, 01:44 AM	I've been trying to understand the effects of Entangle, and the story is rather, well, tangled. The spell description reads: Grasses, weeds, bushes, and even trees wrap, twist, and entwine about creatures in the area or those that enter the area, holding them fast and causing them to become entangled. The creature can break free and move half its normal speed by using a full-round action to make a DC 20 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check. A creature that succeeds on a Reflex save is not entangled but can still move at only half speed through the area. Each round on your turn, the plants once again attempt to entangle all creatures that have avoided or escaped entanglement. Note: The effects of the spell may be altered somewhat, based on the nature of the entangling plants. However, the definition of "entangled" reads: The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and a –4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell. I guess these are fairly consistent if we assume that the Entangle spell's bonds are anchored to the immobile ground. But just to confuse things further, the writeup of the Concentration skill gives the DC of a check against entanglement as being 20+spell level, not 15+spell level. Which version prevails. And am I right that being entangled does NOT cause you to lose your DEX bonus to AC? I also don't understand the basis for the assertion that two Entangle spells necessitate two separate checks to escape. yes, the spell creates bonds are anchored to the immobile ground. the Concentration skill stats the DC for being entangled is 15+spell level, the only 20+ is being grappled which is very different. entangled gives -2 to hit and -4 to dex, effectivly when you are entangled you dex stat is 4 stat points (-2 mod) lower for EVERYTHING since the spell's area of effects would stack, you would need a save from both spells effects while in the overlapping area the same as if two mages each cast a fireball on you at the same time
Dalton Onestone 02-07-05, 01:56 AM	the Concentration skill stats the DC for being entangled is 15+spell level, Arggh. I just plain misread it.
Jindl 02-07-05, 08:55 AM	@Cat - Per the MM, a bite does Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing damage. So in Oz Savage's quest, the dog's bite should bypass the skeleton's DR 5/bludgeoning. (Incidently, I'm quite impressed with how your quest is going. Please sign me up when you're ready to run another :D) -Jindl
OdinTheReaper 02-07-05, 10:07 AM	@pitbull/mystic: :censored: :OMG! wow i sense a rematch in the future.....a real match not a luck fest...and i will triumph as i should have in this match...time will tell @all: Well theres a way to defeat a mounted person.lol.
One_Winged_Angel 02-07-05, 07:22 PM	@all: Well theres a way to defeat a mounted person.lol. Well, there is one example of how to defeat a mounted character.
Dalton Onestone 02-07-05, 07:39 PM	A paralyzed person has a 75% chance of staying mounted in a military saddle, 50% otherwise. But what happens if you apply Grease to the saddle, either before or after they get Hold Personed (or Sleeped or whatever)? The text of the Grease spell says, in effect, "The DM has to use his judgment as to the effects." This could be an important tactic, so a rough consensus would be helpful. And, by the way, if you're Greasing a saddle, whose save gets used -- the rider's or the horse's, and what kind?? My answers are: Use the better of the rider's or horse's save if both can act, otherwise use the save for whoever is able to wiggle around. A Greased saddle against a conscious rider gives a Reflex save to keep his seat, for which he can substitute Ride-10 if that benefits him. If he's not conscious, there should be at least an incremental 50% chance of him going kerplop each round, but I don't have an exact mechanic in mind.
SnarkHunter 02-08-05, 04:12 PM	If anyone is still accepting Questers, Evram would like to discover some better means of controlling the madness that ever lurks beneath his calm exterior (a +2 headband of int).
Naerdaloth 02-08-05, 04:27 PM	what requirements does a creature need to be able to threaten a flank?
T'Var 02-08-05, 04:52 PM	what requirements does a creature need to be able to threaten a flank? from the SRD FLANKING When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by a character or creature friendly to you on the opponent’s opposite border or opposite corner. When in doubt about whether two friendly characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two friendly characters’ centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent’s space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked. Exception: If a flanker takes up more than 1 square, it gets the flanking bonus if any square it occupies counts for flanking. Only a creature or character that threatens the defender can help an attacker get a flanking bonus. Creatures with a reach of 0 feet can’t flank an opponent. threatening, means you have a melee weapon out and are not helpless, lost action(usually due to enemy spell) or in a total defence action
Pitlords 02-08-05, 05:17 PM	In case someone is missing his character... I have just rearranged the Roster alphabetically. That way it is easier to roll pairings. They are all still there :)
Dalton Onestone 02-08-05, 05:45 PM	Is there any chance of Sivalyn vs. Kwerrock being rerun before pairings are due? There were considerable problems with the fight, including Sivalyn doing heavy damage with an item he didn't actually possess, some technical problems with rules, and the fact that neither gladiator pursued the requested tactics.
One_Winged_Angel 02-08-05, 05:57 PM	In case someone is missing his character... I have just rearranged the Roster alphabetically. That way it is easier to roll pairings. They are all still there :) ***Cough*OCD*Cough*** :) Is this by character name or Creator name? BTW, can someone give me an idea for ECL Gold adjustment? I don't recall the old ones. Also, do ECL gain the extra XP to craft items/gain a boost?
Pitlords 02-08-05, 06:28 PM	Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome Mr. Dalton Onestone in the CoCo Gallery (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4034178#post4034178). Is this by character name or Creator name? That's a Dc1 intelligence check, Sean. What do you mean by ECL Gold adjustment? Is there any chance of Sivalyn vs. Kwerrock being rerun before pairings are due? There were considerable problems with the fight, including Sivalyn doing heavy damage with an item he didn't actually possess, some technical problems with rules, and the fact that neither gladiator pursued the requested tactics. Write a PM to Huan and tell him to reply to the Comments thread. If there is no chance to rerun the fight before the deadline, I suggest to leave the fight as it is. If it is rerun the following week and you lose you have gained nothing but lost a whole week. Even if you win, you only won 300 XP at best.
Dalton Onestone 02-08-05, 06:34 PM	Write a PM to Huan and tell him to reply to the Comments thread. If there is no chance to rerun the fight before the deadline, I suggest to leave the fight as it is. If it is rerun the following week and you lose you have gained nothing but lost a whole week. Even if you win, you only won 300 XP at best. He already has posted there, and refused to rerun the fight at all. I'm sorry, but right now I'm too angry to ready either of my characters. Building my character sheet was a waste of time. Submitting my tactics was a waste of time. Pointing out errors was a waste of time. The whole CoCo is a huge waste of time. Goodbye.
One_Winged_Angel 02-08-05, 06:36 PM	That's a Dc1 intelligence check, Sean. What do you mean by ECL Gold adjustment? I have a negative int modifyer, so sue me. By ECl gold adjustment, I mean if I was to make an ECL 4 or higher creature, how do I adjust gold? Specifically, ECL 5 and 9. Before anyone asks, the ECL 5 should be fairly simple to figure out. The 9 is his counterpart. I just want how much they can buy before I finish designing them. And Cat, yes, I know that it will be a long, long time before they can fight. Still, is there a rule against them doing quests in the meantime?
Dalton Onestone 02-08-05, 06:39 PM	I would like to thank everybody who's taken the time to discuss rules with me, to discuss other things, to make opponents, to carefully pitlord fights, or just generally to participate in the CoCo. It's too bad that a few people rushing through their pitlording can ruin things for everybody else.
Naerdaloth 02-08-05, 07:48 PM	Dalton, just generally speaking, pitlording is actually a lot more difficult and timeconsuming than it can appear, and since I started doing it I appreciate the efforts of pitlords a lot more. It doesnt seem fair to accuse a broad group of people as "rushing" or disregarding/disrespecting anyone personally. Its very easy for something to be lost in translation, for tactics to be modified slightly given circumstances, for rules mistakes to occur, etc.
Dalton Onestone 02-08-05, 08:03 PM	Dalton, just generally speaking, pitlording is actually a lot more difficult and timeconsuming than it can appear, and since I started doing it I appreciate the efforts of pitlords a lot more. It doesnt seem fair to accuse a broad group of people as "rushing" or disregarding/disrespecting anyone personally. Its very easy for something to be lost in translation, for tactics to be modified slightly given circumstances, for rules mistakes to occur, etc. I hear you. But I've had exactly 8 fights pitlorded. In that time I've had one pitlord who deliberately, sneeringly sabotaged my fight, and now a second one who sees no reason to change the results even though the outcome of the fight was determined by an invented expendable item, and who can't even be bothered to respond when several other crucial errors are pointed out. That's in addition to others with the types of errors you're referring to, which wasn't really what I was complaining about. Pitlording takes a LOT of time, so I understand the temptation to rush things. But in at least two cases I think it was totally over the top.
One_Winged_Angel 02-08-05, 08:19 PM	Dalton, something I've noticed in COCO and in Dawn of a New Empire. You tend to takes stuff personally. Don't. Huan is generally a good pitlord, but we all have trouble going over every little detail. Because your complaint was registered a few days ago, it is back on another page. And also, I doubt that the pitlords who made mistakes on your fight did it dileberatly. Unless he was saying, "Ha! Look! I made Dalton lose!!!" I see little reason to assume so. As I said, Huan likely missed your previous complaints after not being online for a while. We've all had to deal with people messing up. Trust me: IT'S NOT JUST YOU. If you want, I could recount times pitlords have screwed up (or times I've screwed up) for you. Ask Arstimis about his first fight involving an old character name Laucian Loyalar. I've been ticked at certain Pitlords myself. Oh, and there have been many, many more than 2 times pitlords have been stubborn on revoking decisions. I again site Laucian in this. It's an old fight, but it's there. You also should stop indirectly or directly insulting people. It helps no one, often results in bad feelings, and (Believe me on this one) often can result in you getting 0 sympathy from the person you're insulting in future arguments, or even fights.
T'Var 02-08-05, 08:25 PM	We've all had to deal with people messing up. Trust me: IT'S NOT JUST YOU. If you want, I could recount times pitlords have screwed up (or times I've screwed up) for you. Ask Arstimis about his first fight involving an old character name Laucian Loyalar. I've been ticked at certain Pitlords myself. well speak for yourself OWA....I'm perfect hehe :smirk:
Dalton Onestone 02-08-05, 08:34 PM	Dalton, something I've noticed in COCO and in Dawn of a New Empire. You tend to takes stuff personally. Don't. Huan is generally a good pitlord, but we all have trouble going over every little detail. Because your complaint was registered a few days ago, it is back on another page. And also, I doubt that the pitlords who made mistakes on your fight did it dileberatly. Unless he was saying, "Ha! Look! I made Dalton lose!!!" I see little reason to assume so. As I said, Huan likely missed your previous complaints after not being online for a while. We've all had to deal with people messing up. Trust me: IT'S NOT JUST YOU. If you want, I could recount times pitlords have screwed up (or times I've screwed up) for you. Ask Arstimis about his first fight involving an old character name Laucian Loyalar. I've been ticked at certain Pitlords myself. Oh, and there have been many, many more than 2 times pitlords have been stubborn on revoking decisions. I again site Laucian in this. It's an old fight, but it's there. You also should stop indirectly or directly insulting people. It helps no one, often results in bad feelings, and (Believe me on this one) often can result in you getting 0 sympathy from the person you're insulting in future arguments, or even fights. A fair criticism, OWA. I do have a hot temper, which causes a lot of aggravation and probably doesn't do anybody any good. And I have no doubt Huan's errors were simply ones of haste. MadcowTemplate, on the other hand, started his running of a fight by directly attacking me, and then had my character attempt to cast spells that he hadn't even memorized, making jibes all the way. So in that one case I think I'm right to take it personally; it was pretty darned close to your hypothetical "Ha! I made Dalton lose!" extreme. And Huan's errors of haste happen to go beyond odd rules interpretations, or odd tactical decisions, or not bothering to read a series of notes raising questions about the fight. I had a meleer fighting a wizard who casts Sleep, and he erroneously killed the meleer's horse, after which the meleer indeed got put to sleep and CdGed in the usual way. Then he posted, admitting the error in killing the horse, but said it had no effect on the outcome of the fight because the horses weren't much involved. That's a bit much to swallow.
One_Winged_Angel 02-08-05, 09:05 PM	Dalton, my opinion of you went up a few notches. I appreciate people who can recognize their own faults. I hope you decide to stick around.
Naerdaloth 02-08-05, 11:08 PM	Intro (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5406983#post5406983) for Cedric's quest finished. :D
Sindorin 02-08-05, 11:25 PM	In case someone is missing his character... I have just rearranged the Roster alphabetically. That way it is easier to roll pairings. They are all still there :) Wow, thank you for taking the time to do this, it helps SO MUCH!!!
scaryfroman 02-09-05, 01:04 AM	The organization looks great. Thanks for doing that. Pitlords, don't give me any fights this week. I will be withdrawing from the world of the COCO for a couple weeks.
Snommelp 02-09-05, 01:08 AM	Finally running Grakk vs. Lora, and I want a ruling on a mounted character withdrawing. If the mount withdraws and the mounted character attacks, does the mounted character draw an AoO, like an unmounted character who moved away and attacked would?
Snommelp 02-09-05, 01:26 AM	Sorry for being impatient, but I've got to run this fight. So, unless someone tells me otherwise within the next five seconds or so, I'm ruling that if the mount withdraws then the rider is safe from AoOs.
KerlanRayne 02-09-05, 05:48 AM	Finally added my new char, Zubair Suhaim. PLease add him to the roster. Another coming soon. KerlanRayne
Pittbull 02-09-05, 06:01 AM	Finally added my new char, Zubair Suhaim. PLease add him to the roster. Another coming soon. KerlanRayne Hey, nice to have back! Are you aware of Zubair having no caster-level and therefore being not able to use the wand of entangle? ;)
Pittbull 02-09-05, 06:04 AM	Does anybody know where I can find nice pixie-pics? I need a male archer! Thanks for helping...
Caterane 02-09-05, 08:12 AM	By ECl gold adjustment, I mean if I was to make an ECL 4 or higher creature, how do I adjust gold? Specifically, ECL 5 and 9. Before anyone asks, the ECL 5 should be fairly simple to figure out. The 9 is his counterpart. I just want how much they can buy before I finish designing them. And Cat, yes, I know that it will be a long, long time before they can fight. Still, is there a rule against them doing quests in the meantime? ECL 4: 5700 gold, 6300 XP ECL 5: 9500 gold, 10500 XP ECL 9: uh, ask Ash All [Old] characters are inactive until the first ~4 (depends on how many Old PCs will reactivate) LG characters reach that level so no Quests or anything else for them. The reason is that we do not want to bind ressources for non-LG characters. We already have a pitlord shortage with our current LG PCs.
Naerdaloth 02-09-05, 09:27 AM	can quick draw be used on vials/flasks (such as alchemists fire)?
SnarkHunter 02-09-05, 09:31 AM	Hey, nice to have back! Are you aware of Zubair having no caster-level and therefore being not able to use the wand of entangle? ;) He can too actually, just no scrolls.
Jindl 02-09-05, 09:35 AM	Finally running Grakk vs. Lora, and I want a ruling on a mounted character withdrawing. If the mount withdraws and the mounted character attacks, does the mounted character draw an AoO, like an unmounted character who moved away and attacked would? It's probably too late to help, but since the rider is leaving a threatened square he does draw an AoO.
One_Winged_Angel 02-09-05, 09:41 AM	ECL 4: 5700 gold, 6300 XP ECL 5: 9500 gold, 10500 XP ECL 9: uh, ask Ash All [Old] characters are inactive until the first ~4 (depends on how many Old PCs will reactivate) LG characters reach that level so no Quests or anything else for them. The reason is that we do not want to bind ressources for non-LG characters. We already have a pitlord shortage with our current LG PCs. I don't suppose making an ECL creature would allow me to quest with him. No? Yah, didn't think so.
Snommelp 02-09-05, 11:44 AM	It's probably too late to help, but since the rider is leaving a threatened square he does draw an AoO. I'll make a mental note for later fights. The rider lost, though, so the possible change in outcome would be less resources used, and frankly I don't want to run the fight again. We'll just say that Grakk missed his opportunity.
Dalton Onestone 02-09-05, 12:47 PM	I'll make a mental note for later fights. The rider lost, though, so the possible change in outcome would be less resources used, and frankly I don't want to run the fight again. We'll just say that Grakk missed his opportunity. That illustrates a big problem with LG. It's one thing to say mistakes are inevitable when running fights. But at least there should be a best-efforts after-the-fact estimate of the resources used. Getting screwed out of 150 gp or whatever per fight can really add up, given the number of fights per level. An even bigger problem is that it's very hard for spellcasters to defeat mounted opponents at CL 3 and 4 without expending a whole lot of GPs worth of resources. Unless you're a druid, you don't have much that can hurt a horse at more than close range until you get 3rd level spells.
Sindorin 02-09-05, 12:51 PM	That illustrates a big problem with LG. It's one thing to say mistakes are inevitable when running fights. But at least there should be a best-efforts after-the-fact estimate of the resources used. Getting screwed out of 150 gp or whatever per fight can really add up, given the number of fights per level. An even bigger problem is that it's very hard for spellcasters to defeat mounted opponents at CL 3 and 4 without expending a whole lot of GPs worth of resources. Unless you're a druid, you don't have much that can hurt a horse at more than close range until you get 3rd level spells. you don't need to hurt the horse. Potion: Hide from Animals <50 gp>
Jindl 02-09-05, 01:32 PM	An even bigger problem is that it's very hard for spellcasters to defeat mounted opponents at CL 3 and 4 without expending a whole lot of GPs worth of resources. Unless you're a druid, you don't have much that can hurt a horse at more than close range until you get 3rd level spells. I completely disagree. Um, lets see. Wizard: Scroll: magic missile (CL9) can kill the rider at a range of 190 ft. <225 gp> Druid: Entangle spell nuetralizes the horse, then produce flame can easily kill the rider. <free> Cleric: Depends on the build, but spiritual weapon, magic weapon (on your ranged weapon), and other options can really work wonders. <free> Psion: Have you noticed that you can apply the Enlarge Power feat to a powerstone for free? So get some powerstones: Enlarged Energy Ray (ML5) <125 gp> that do 5d6+5 at a range of 75 ft. Should be pretty easy to nail the rider then, especially if you have a potion: invisibility. Also note that psionic characters tend to have the highest effective hps, thanks to the Vigor power. Psychic Warrior: Get some deep crystal arrows and put those pps to good use. Wilder: See psion above. These are all effective ways of killing a mounted character. A warhorse is an advantage to any character. However there are many ways for each class to overcome one, with minimal cost.
OdinTheReaper 02-09-05, 01:53 PM	I again disagree with dalton on this....ash and sindorin have a point. Lets add one to JINDL'S (sorry i fixed that mistake) list shall we: Fighters: Arrows (one hit kills, lol, i still think its funny that it happened to me), potion hide from animals (Sindorin's idea, very effective vs druids too) Personally i think druids are more of a pain than people with mounts..besides archers and then you have protection from arrows...
Jindl 02-09-05, 01:55 PM	I again disagree with dalton on this....ash and sindorin have a point. Lets add one to Cat's list shall we: Fighters: Arrows (one hit kills, lol, i still think its funny that it happened to me), potion hide from animals (Sindorin's idea, very effective vs druids too) Personally i think druids are more of a pain than people with mounts..besides archers and then you have protection from arrows... I think you mean Jindl's list. LOL.
OdinTheReaper 02-09-05, 02:05 PM	Oh :banghead: my bad....forgive me i had two tests today so im kinda out of it
MotherBast 02-09-05, 02:25 PM	Hi all. Just droped in to mention a little something, don't know if its already been brought up or not, since I haven't been following the discussion. Remember waaaayyyyyy back in the day when I said you couldn't attack after your mount double moves? And it was me vs. the entire board..... well, check the D&D mainpage. The issue is clerafied, and guess who was right... ME!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... whos smoking the bong now CAT!!!! (Cat still is on this thread right?) And take that Tellish, my greatist adversary on the issue.... (Tellish is still here too isen't he?) Anyway, have fun to the rest of ya, and for the newjacks who don't know me.... respect my once Elderness!!!!!! See ya.
T'Var 02-09-05, 02:37 PM	Hi all. Just droped in to mention a little something, don't know if its already been brought up or not, since I haven't been following the discussion. Remember waaaayyyyyy back in the day when I said you couldn't attack after your mount double moves? And it was me vs. the entire board..... well, check the D&D mainpage. The issue is clerafied, and guess who was right... ME!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... whos smoking the bong now CAT!!!! (Cat still is on this thread right?) And take that Tellish, my greatist adversary on the issue.... (Tellish is still here too isen't he?) Anyway, have fun to the rest of ya, and for the newjacks who don't know me.... respect my once Elderness!!!!!! See ya. Note this applies only to melee attacks, ranged still has the -4, -8 penelityes for using ranged combat at a double move, run respectivly
Sindorin 02-09-05, 02:39 PM	@ OTR Don't give me credit for the Potion of Hide From Animals... I'm sure someone used it before I accidentally discovered what it does by including it in my tactics... @ MotherBast Good to see you're still alive and kicking! But what if the mounted rider takes his standard action to ready to shoot the person while the mount double moves, and then the action goes off at the end of the double move? Would the attack still trigger? Edit: Ack, T'Var had it better spelled out. Speedy Speedy.
Jindl 02-09-05, 02:40 PM	@MB - It's good to see you're still alive. FYI: A readied action to attack when in range could be taken while your mount double moves, allowing you to attack at the end of the movement.
Sindorin 02-09-05, 02:41 PM	I Beet Jindl!!! :)
Jindl 02-09-05, 02:46 PM	I Beet Jindl!!! :) Congrats. BTW: Both MB and I were talking about making melee attacks at the end of the double move, not ranged attacks.
Sindorin 02-09-05, 02:48 PM	Congrats. BTW: Both MB and I were talking about making melee attacks at the end of the double move, not ranged attacks. gotcha.
Nanaleigh 02-09-05, 03:10 PM	Hello all! I've been out for a couple weeks... really busy. I'm sorry about the controversy my bow caused, I didn't know how to price magic item enhancements. I have readied Alexis for this week. I officially hate the Superbowl. After people go to their little superbowl parties they decide to drive home drunk. One particular idiot slammed into the back of my car, which was parked behind Sindorin's, knocking it into his. It was freaky. We're still unsure as to the damages of both vehicles. The guy's truck was totalled, oil was everywhere... Anyway, I don't post much on here but I figured that I would give it a try and stop being so 'antisocial'. Bye!
KerlanRayne 02-09-05, 03:27 PM	Speaking of dealing with horses, what would happen if you used Charm Animal on the horse. What can you do? How would you communicate? Can a horse buck off it's rider? KerlanRayne
Jindl 02-09-05, 03:38 PM	Speaking of dealing with horses, what would happen if you used Charm Animal on the horse. What can you do? How would you communicate? Can a horse buck off it's rider? KerlanRayne Charm animal would make it friendly to you, but not necessarily unfriendly to its rider. It would ignore its rider's commands to attack you, but would probably still be useful for simply movement. Charging would be out, because that requires that the mount make a charge attack. As for "bucking" off a rider, I think that would require grappling. Jindl of the High Forest did use command animal one time to get a mount to attack his rider, but that was a simple hoof/hoof/bite. I didn't see any point in dismounting him. -Jindl
T'Var 02-09-05, 03:44 PM	Charm animal would make it friendly to you, but not necessarily unfriendly to its rider. It would ignore its rider's commands to attack you, but would probably still be useful for simply movement. Charging would be out, because that requires that the mount make a charge attack. As for "bucking" off a rider, I think that would require grappling. Jindl of the High Forest did use command animal one time to get a mount to attack his rider, but that was a simple hoof/hoof/bite. I didn't see any point in dismounting him. -Jindl I would think after casting speak with animals asking a horse to just sit down would work also. its not hostile to his rider, and not the caster and it would messup many many tactics for the rider dont think the horse would attack its own rider, as it wouldnt consider the rider an enemy anymore than it would the caster
Dalton Onestone 02-09-05, 04:06 PM	you don't need to hurt the horse. You do if you want to force the rider into melee. At least, that's the prevailing theory. I really don't understand it, because it seems to me that if two characters have equal speed, one can eventually base the other if he insists on doing so (and lives long enough). But I know that Cat et al. disagree with me, so for the purposes of discussion I'm assuming he's right and I'm wrong.
Caterane 02-09-05, 04:16 PM	@Odin: Glad that you like my list :D @Dalton: It depends on your and your opponoments tactics. You *can* base him if you come up with a pattern that assures that but that must be included in your tactics and is in no way the standard pitlord adaption.
Dalton Onestone 02-09-05, 04:19 PM	I completely disagree. Um, lets see. Wizard: Scroll: magic missile (CL9) can kill the rider at a range of 190 ft. <225 gp> --- Who's that going to kill except the occasional psion? Wizards are likely to have Shield up. Besides, spending 1/4 of the reward for winning a fight on one item is, in my opinion, expensive. If you really have to spend, say, half your treasure on average over the course of your bouts, then the remaining wealth at each level will be far below DMG guidelines. Druid: Entangle spell nuetralizes the horse, then produce flame can easily kill the rider. <free> --- Agreed that Druids with Entangle are an exception. Cleric: Depends on the build, but spiritual weapon, magic weapon (on your ranged weapon), and other options can really work wonders. <free> --- I hadn't thought of Spiritual Weapon. At CL4 that's 1d8+1 per round for 4 rounds, for two of your spell slots, with a +7 or so attack bonus. On the average, if you cast that twice and use up all your spell slots and your opponent doesn't feed him any CLW potions, I think you still don't kill the horse in eight rounds of trying. Psion: Have you noticed that you can apply the Enlarge Power feat to a powerstone for free? So get some powerstones: Enlarged Energy Ray (ML5) <125 gp> that do 5d6+5 at a range of 75 ft. Should be pretty easy to nail the rider then, especially if you have a potion: invisibility. -- The first one has less than a 50-50 chance of killing a heavy warhorse. After that, if you're unmounted he can ride away. If you're mounted, the Invisbility didn't do much. Also note that psionic characters tend to have the highest effective hps, thanks to the Vigor power. Psychic Warrior: Get some deep crystal arrows and put those pps to good use. Wilder: See psion above. -- I was complaining about spellcasters, not psionic types. I know little about psi. These are all effective ways of killing a mounted character. A warhorse is an advantage to any character. However there are many ways for each class to overcome one, with minimal cost. -- I don't think 225 gp x2 or more is minimal.
Dalton Onestone 02-09-05, 04:21 PM	@Dalton: It depends on your and your opponoments tactics. You *can* base him if you come up with a pattern that assures that but that must be included in your tactics and is in no way the standard pitlord adaption. Oh. Great. And you told me my tactics were already too long. Actually, I can describe the pattern in two sentences: 1. Always head for a spot between the opponent and the center of the arena. 2. Given #1, approach the opponent as closely as possible.
Naerdaloth 02-09-05, 04:29 PM	(posted here to stop cluttering the violations thread) Even without a bias I still feel that applying a "1 in a million" rule is ok, I could honestly care less whether a demon is a cleric of Pelor or if an angel is a blackguard, or what a person happens to believe in. It is still my view that if a creature has an Int and Wis score it is able to decide for itself what it believes in regardless of societal norm. Whether this is Drizzt fanboy psychology or not, well.. whatever :p But, the matter has been settled and I will stop talking about it. I'll go edit the alignment. ..And think of a new more fitting quote. :P :D :P
Jindl 02-09-05, 04:35 PM	-- I don't think 225 gp x2 or more is minimal. The only person paying 225 gp is the wizard, and believe me, 1 scroll: magic missile (CL9) is usually enough, especially if you support it with a few spells cast from memory.
LLMadCow 02-09-05, 05:04 PM	I officially hate the Superbowl. After people go to their little superbowl parties they decide to drive home drunk. One particular idiot slammed into the back of my car, which was parked behind Sindorin's, knocking it into his. It was freaky. We're still unsure as to the damages of both vehicles. The guy's truck was totalled, oil was everywhere... At least You and Sindorin are both safe and sound. Hopefully both cars will be repaired and as good as new quickly. Good to see you again...
Snommelp 02-09-05, 05:18 PM	That illustrates a big problem with LG. It's one thing to say mistakes are inevitable when running fights. But at least there should be a best-efforts after-the-fact estimate of the resources used. Getting screwed out of 150 gp or whatever per fight can really add up, given the number of fights per level. An even bigger problem is that it's very hard for spellcasters to defeat mounted opponents at CL 3 and 4 without expending a whole lot of GPs worth of resources. Unless you're a druid, you don't have much that can hurt a horse at more than close range until you get 3rd level spells. In this instance, it was the mage who was mounted. Also, there are variables here that you aren't taking into accout. First, the fight was already late, and a re-run could have prevented the two from being paired this week while they waited for the outcome. Second, something which you had no way of knowing, I typed the statement you responded to as I was heading out the door for class. I just got back from classes to type this. Real life constrains pitlords as well as everyone else. Third, Lora didn't get "screwed" out of 150 gp of expendables; rather, she was given a chance to fight past when she would have possibly died, and she used the expendables as per her tactics in order to try to win. I don't know if it was actually 150 gp's worth, either...
One_Winged_Angel 02-09-05, 05:23 PM	(posted here to stop cluttering the violations thread) Even without a bias I still feel that applying a "1 in a million" rule is ok, I could honestly care less whether a demon is a cleric of Pelor or if an angel is a blackguard, or what a person happens to believe in. It is still my view that if a creature has an Int and Wis score it is able to decide for itself what it believes in regardless of societal norm. Whether this is Drizzt fanboy psychology or not, well.. whatever :p But, the matter has been settled and I will stop talking about it. I'll go edit the alignment. ..And think of a new more fitting quote. :P :D :P I happen to partially agree with this statement. There are some exceptions, however. 1) Certain things cannot deviate from their alignment: Such things inlude outsiders or specific type (i.e. Tanar'ri and Baatezu) and the occasional intellegent undead (Although specific examples contradict this. But we don't play in forgotten realms). Therefore, demons would have trouble being paladins and Angels would have trouble being blackguards. 2) However, unless this is the case, I think that it's alright. There are even times where the MM mentions deviations. Example: half celestials are mention as being "always good." Yet in their discription, it states that they are sometimes neutral due to estrangement. BTW, what character are we referring to?
Dalton Onestone 02-09-05, 05:53 PM	In this instance, it was the mage who was mounted. Also, there are variables here that you aren't taking into accout. First, the fight was already late, and a re-run could have prevented the two from being paired this week while they waited for the outcome. Second, something which you had no way of knowing, I typed the statement you responded to as I was heading out the door for class. I just got back from classes to type this. Real life constrains pitlords as well as everyone else. Third, Lora didn't get "screwed" out of 150 gp of expendables; rather, she was given a chance to fight past when she would have possibly died, and she used the expendables as per her tactics in order to try to win. I don't know if it was actually 150 gp's worth, either... ??? I'm referring to the Kwerrock/Sivalyn fight. Kwerrock was screwed out of 150-175 gp worth of scrolls, basically, quite apart from the question as to whether he should have won the fight. Huan chose not to rerun it, apparently on the theory that when you put a mounted combatant to Sleep there's automatically a chance for a CdG against him, something I greatly question, especially since if I recall correctly my tactics did not say the Defend trick was active, and hence the default action of the mount was to run away. But even accepting his choice not to rerun it, I would have liked my scrolls back.
Snommelp 02-09-05, 05:56 PM	??? I'm referring to the Kwerrock/Sivalyn fight. Kwerrock was screwed out of 175 gp worth of scrolls, basically, quite apart from the question as to whether he should have won the fight. Oh... um, alright then. Rarr, how dare he... Sorry, when you quoted me I thought the whole thing was concerning my fight. What can I say, I'm egocentric.
Dalton Onestone 02-09-05, 05:59 PM	Oh... um, alright then. Rarr, how dare he... Sorry, when you quoted me I thought the whole thing was concerning my fight. What can I say, I'm egocentric. Well, I do think that if there's a provision for you as pitlord to quickly say "Naah, correcting the fight wouldn't have changed the outcome" there should also be a provision for you to say "But the expenditures would probably have been different". Or even "I'm not sure, and can't be bothered to test it out, so I'll roll 1d2 and decide that way."
Jindl 02-09-05, 06:00 PM	Huan chose not to rerun it, apparently on the theory that when you put a mounted combatant to Sleep there's automatically a chance for a CdG against him, something I greatly question, especially since if I recall correctly my tactics did not say the Defend trick was active, and hence the default action of the mount was to run away. But even accepting his choice not to rerun it, I would have liked my scrolls back. Just so you know, the Defend trick is always automatic. You can temporarily turn it off by using the Down trick, but that will take a move action and a handle animal check.
Snommelp 02-09-05, 06:03 PM	@ Dalton: Fair enough. Of course, I could also just "roll" the Attack of Opportunity and fudge it to make it a miss... and, since in this hypothetical scenario I wouldn't have told you this, I could have maintained the outcome while pretending that it could have changed. I wouldn't do that, though, because I have selfish reasons for not lying or fudging dice rolls, just like I have selfish motivations for everything else I do. Seriously. Point out something that I've done here and I'll tell you the selfish motivation.
LLMadCow 02-09-05, 06:04 PM	Please forgive me for playing the Devil's Advocate, but I was left with no choice. I have not read the entire arguement that was posted in the Violations Thread, but I skimmed all of it and read a fair amount. There were a few quotes I was looking for and never found, so without further ado, I bring to you... Vital Quotes that Naerdaolth Missed! Alignment This line gives the alignment that the creature is most likely to have. Every entry includes a qualifier that indicates how broadly that alignment applies to the species as a whole. Alignment: This line gives the alignment that the creature is most likely to have. Every entry includes a qualifier that indicates how broadly that alignment applies to all monsters of that kind. Always: The creature is born with the indicated alignment. The creature may have a hereditary predisposition to the alignment or come from a plane that predetermies it. It is possible for individuals to change alignment, but such individuals are either unique or rare exceptions. Yes, I am aware that the first quote is almost identical to what the second says, but I found out that the MM Glossary is not in the SRD, or it is nigh impossible to find. I understand the arguement of that is just how we do things in the Arena, but from time to time rules can be examined and adjusted and re-evaluated. In general I am in favor of more freedoms in LG, so long as they do not cause issues. Changing the alignment of a pixie is not earth shattering. Does it have to stay the same so that we all have the option of only having to carry 1 Protection from (Alignment) potion and be safe from the flying menace? Oh...my...god! Would you look at all of the pixies heading this way! Thankfully I have packed my Protection potions! B-b-but sarge! How do you know which one to drink? Caboose! Everyone knows that EVERY SINGLE Pixie is Neutral Good. We're safe. Moments later the swarm of pixies arrives. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh. Their biting me! Well, I'll be. They must be Blue pixies. Ow! Edit: Does this mean that Pixies are NEVER Paladins or Blackguards? Nor Monks or Assassins?
Dalton Onestone 02-09-05, 06:04 PM	Just so you know, the Defend trick is always automatic. You can temporarily turn it off by using the Down trick, but that will take a move action and a handle animal check. Then under what circumstances does a mount bear an unconscious rider away from combat, like the rules say it does?
Jindl 02-09-05, 06:10 PM	Then under what circumstances does a mount bear an unconscious rider away from combat, like the rules say it does? I guess that refers to mounts that are not trained for combat. It is a good question though, because I would think the a warhorse would be trained to bear an unconscious rider away from combat, or defend a dismounted unconscious rider in combat. Still, logic and DnD rules are rarely the same.
Dalton Onestone 02-09-05, 06:19 PM	@Jindl, There's another theory, which is that the "defend" trick should be interpreted as written. The text in its entirety is: The animal defends you (or is ready to defend you if no threat is present), even without any command being given. Alternatively, you can command the animal to defend a specific other character. That definition doesn't actually say anything about attacking anybody else in the neighborhood who might be hostile, nor does it say that the horse makes a Spellcraft check with automatic success to determine why its rider is unconscious. So we could say that the explicit rules saying that a horse initially attempts to bear an unconscious rider out of combat overrides any other aggressive tendencies the horse might have. I'm not necessarily trying to reopen the whole discussion about how soon the horse gets belligerent if an enemy approaches. I'm just saying that if an explicitly written rule agrees with common sense, it shouldn't be overridden by a debatable interpretation of what may be implicit in some other rule.
Arstimis 02-09-05, 06:24 PM	@ Dalton: Fair enough. Of course, I could also just "roll" the Attack of Opportunity and fudge it to make it a miss... and, since in this hypothetical scenario I wouldn't have told you this, I could have maintained the outcome while pretending that it could have changed. I wouldn't do that, though, because I have selfish reasons for not lying or fudging dice rolls, just like I have selfish motivations for everything else I do. Seriously. Point out something that I've done here and I'll tell you the selfish motivation. Thats why I think pitlords should have to use an online roller, so this couldnt happen. ...not that you would do anything like that...but i know there have been pitlords that have
Snommelp 02-09-05, 06:28 PM	Thats why I think pitlords should have to use an online roller, so this couldnt happen. ...not that you would do anything like that...but i know there have been pitlords that have Online rollers do some strange things... just ask Cat. I'll think about it, though...
Arstimis 02-09-05, 06:37 PM	Online rollers do some strange things... just ask Cat. I'll think about it, though... then one I use, and have always used works prefectly fine.. the one i use the the krisinchico.brinkster.net one
MotherBast 02-09-05, 08:33 PM	Actually, you can't ready, move your mount, and then attack with your readied action either, as when your "ready", that ends your turn. You can't take move or even free actions after you ready, so you couldn't give you mount the command to move, or make a ride check (even an automatic one) to move him. No "ready action" then move is possable on a standard mount.
Arstimis 02-09-05, 08:55 PM	Actually, you can't ready, move your mount, and then attack with your readied action either, as when your "ready", that ends your turn. You can't take move or even free actions after you ready, so you couldn't give you mount the command to move, or make a ride check (even an automatic one) to move him. No "ready action" then move is possable on a standard mount. The only way I think you could do this is to tell him to trot to point A (point A being farther away than a horse could trot in 1 round) then ready your action the next round while riding him....ehh..not sure how useful it is, but it can be done..or am i wrong with something
Snommelp 02-09-05, 09:26 PM	Guiding a mount is a free action, right? I'm basing this off of the fact that you can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving, or load and fire a light crossbow under the same circumstances. If that's the case, then you can direct the horse as a free action, then ready while the horse is moving, and if your readied action should just happen to trigger after your horse finishes moving, how did anything against the rules occur?
Snommelp 02-09-05, 09:58 PM	And now for something completely different: how much gold would, say, and ECL 11 character start with? I know it's still a ways away, but I've already started working on a character. He'll be taking the Ironman award away from Aku, the Ugly award from Donkey, and he'll tie Donkey for the Stupid award. Can't say if he'll win Foolish, since there's nobody currently holding that one.
LLMadCow 02-09-05, 10:21 PM	And now for something completely different: how much gold would, say, and ECL 11 character start with? I know it's still a ways away, but I've already started working on a character. He'll be taking the Ironman award away from Aku, the Ugly award from Donkey, and he'll tie Donkey for the Stupid award. Can't say if he'll win Foolish, since there's nobody currently holding that one. ECL 11 - 66,000gp
One_Winged_Angel 02-09-05, 10:23 PM	ECL 11 - 66,000gp Oh, oh! Can you figure out ECL 9? Please please please!!!???
cellardweller 02-09-05, 10:40 PM	Actually, you can't ready, move your mount, and then attack with your readied action either, as when your "ready", that ends your turn. You can't take move or even free actions after you ready, so you couldn't give you mount the command to move, or make a ride check (even an automatic one) to move him. No "ready action" then move is possable on a standard mount. The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so). Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action. All it says is that it is a standard action to ready, it doesn't say anything about forfeiting other move equivelent or free actions, hence you don't. There is nothing in the rules to prevent you readying anything to happen at the end of your horses move.
LLMadCow 02-10-05, 12:00 AM	Oh, oh! Can you figure out ECL 9? Please please please!!!??? ECL3 - 3,000gp ECL4 - 5,400gp ECL5 - 9,000gp ECL6 - 13,000gp ECL7 - 19,000gp ECL8 - 27,000gp ECL9 - 36,000gp ECL10 - 49,000gp ECL11 - 66,000gp ECL12 - 88,000gp ECL13 - 110,000gp ECL14 - 150,000gp ECL15 - 200,000gp This chart is accurate from the DMG.
Snommelp 02-10-05, 12:08 AM	Oh... right, the DMG chart. Might help if I had a 3.5 DMG, or if I had my 3.0 DMG on campus... I finished my ECL 11 character. I think I'll hold out on posting him until I have enough credits, though. And if that comes too soon for my liking, I'll wait until the gladiators start hitting ECL 11.
Jindl 02-10-05, 12:10 AM	Oh... right, the DMG chart. Might help if I had a 3.5 DMG, or if I had my 3.0 DMG on campus... I finished my ECL 11 character. I think I'll hold out on posting him until I have enough credits, though. And if that comes too soon for my liking, I'll wait until the gladiators start hitting ECL 11. At a rate of 4 weeks per level, it should only take about 7 months for our new pc's to reach ECL 11.
One_Winged_Angel 02-10-05, 12:12 AM	At a rate of 4 weeks per level, it should only take about 7 months for our new pc's to reach ECL 11. Your not factoring in the likely board freezes, temporary level freezes, me freezing in the cold next weekend...oh, wait. That's just me...
Snommelp 02-10-05, 12:12 AM	At a rate of 4 weeks per level, it should only take about 7 months for our new pc's to reach ECL 11. That soon, eh? Maybe in that time I can think of some improvements... right now he's heavy melee, and not so sure on ranged. If any mages ever make it up to ECL 11 (and Cat's has a good chance of getting there first), he's in a lot of trouble... but I only have 2 gp left...
Sindorin 02-10-05, 12:23 AM	At a rate of 4 weeks per level, it should only take about 7 months for our new pc's to reach ECL 11. That also doesn't factor in losses, either.
OdinTheReaper 02-10-05, 01:48 AM	question: If someone has deflect arrows can they use a bow at the same time...i mean it requires two hands for a bow so i would think that it wouldnt work? Please let me know
Snommelp 02-10-05, 01:54 AM	question: If someone has deflect arrows can they use a bow at the same time...i mean it requires two hands for a bow so i would think that it wouldnt work? Please let me know I believe the ruling was that it is a free action to move your hand onto or off of a weapon, so a character could shoot, use a free action to remove his hand from his bow, deflect during his opponent's turn, then during his turn use the free action to put his hand back on his weapon and fire again. Works for any two-handed weapon, although it's questionable as to whether you can make AoOs with a two-handed weapon if you're holding on with one hand. I have the sneaking suspicion that this question relates somehow to my character, though, so feel free to get a second opinion. I won't be offended.
OdinTheReaper 02-10-05, 02:07 AM	well its your character and mine...i thought that having a two handed weapon negates the feat...i'll look it up
Naerdaloth 02-10-05, 07:46 AM	ECL3 - 3,000gp ECL4 - 5,400gp ECL5 - 9,000gp ECL6 - 13,000gp ECL7 - 19,000gp ECL8 - 27,000gp ECL9 - 36,000gp ECL10 - 49,000gp ECL11 - 66,000gp ECL12 - 88,000gp ECL13 - 110,000gp ECL14 - 150,000gp ECL15 - 200,000gp This chart is accurate from the DMG. Accurate from the DMG but not from the COCO. For example, look at the newly levelled ECL4s. They have a little over 6000, more than what the DMG would suggest. And based on Cat's declaration of starting ECL5 characters be 9500gp, that also tilts the chart. Im assuming that this tilt is to balance the fact characters would be spending more on resources since they fight so much more. (and higher ECL characters take a hit on starting gold, because they get pardoned for several fights) What Ive noticed is that for a starting ECL3 character, his gold will remain -200 of his xp (at least, if he doesnt spend some on stuff). For a higher ECL character, you take the standard xp to be that level, you take 200 + 100 x (ECL -3), applying the 100 x (ECL -3) separately and cumulatively at each ECL you go up. Add the result to the standard xp for the level and you have your characters actual xp. For gold, subtract the same amount you added to find actual xp from your standard xp value. For example, an ECL 9 PC would use this formula: 36,000 base xp + 200 + [100 x (ECL -3)] <-applied separately for each skipped ECL = 38300 starting XP and 33700 starting gold. Pitlords, is this about correct or am I way off? ;)
Pittbull 02-10-05, 10:10 AM	@Pitlords: Consider Hagrid (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4907091&postcount=268) (ECL5) as retired. Harry got some problems, so he went back to Hogwards. :D
T'Var 02-10-05, 10:14 AM	@Pitlords: Consider Hagrid (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4907091&postcount=268) (ECL5) as retired. Harry got some problems, so he went back to Hogwards. :D he finnally realize that Hermione and Ron are a bit more than 'friends' and is jealous?
Evadyn 02-10-05, 02:21 PM	I'm new here and would like to join. In other words: How do I join? What do I do? Just make a character and post it in the character thread? Thank you!
Jindl 02-10-05, 02:29 PM	I'm new here and would like to join. In other words: How do I join? What do I do? Just make a character and post it in the character thread? Thank you! The answers you seek can be found HERE. (That's post#21 on the FAQ and World of Gladius thread.) The Default Character Sheet and the Quickstart Guide may be helpful also (although remember that the FAQ takes precendence if there is any contradictory information.) Welcome to Gladius :D -Jindl
Caterane 02-10-05, 02:38 PM	Evadyn: If the FAQ are too overwhelming, begin with the Quickstart Guide (see Jindl's post for the link). If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Jindl 02-10-05, 06:19 PM	@Beldin - Please clean out your PM boxes. Since it was full you've missed a few messages about the WLD...
MotherBast 02-10-05, 06:49 PM	I noticed a discussion about grappling mounted characters on a thread here. I don't know when it happened, or how it was resolved, but the "All about mounts" articals on the D&D mainpage had some things to say about grappling mounted foes. #1: Being mounted dosen't prevent you from being grappled. #2: Unless the person grappling you is also mounted on your mount, your mount can not move while you are grappled. You can be pulled from your mount, or dismout volentarly, and your mount will be free to move normaly. #3: If the person grappling you mounts your mount, it can move normaly (of course, this will be dependent on the weight it is now carrying.) I remember back when I ran fights, this is prettymuch how we ran them, but I wasen't sure how the discussion might have changed the way such things occure here. Now its official though, so just thought I'd point it out. And I'll soon be making a full return to the CoCo. Have two new (to me at least) character builds I plan to test out. I have looked into some of the changes here, and I'm pretty pleased all around. Only problem is I have a new girlfriend (things didn't go well with the Italian girl, long story), and the new girl is pretty demanding. Takes up a lot of my time, if you know what I mean. I haven't played EQ2 in over a month! But, I plan to post a character or 2 tomarrow, not active, just to get back in the swing of things. By the way, will I retain the 11 or 13 credits I had when I left? And will the characters marked "old" ever be active again, or will I need to make new a new "Brackin", "Candy", and "Dra'kel" if I wana see them in the arena again?
Jindl 02-10-05, 07:05 PM	@MB - Well, aren't you just a font of information :D Welcome back old friend. Glad to hear it. As for the gf, they come, they go. Yes you'll retain your old credits. As for the old pc's, you can choose to restart/remake them (as I did with Jindl and Snark did with Moon-moon) or you can let them sit inactive until the new characters reach that level (like I did with Aku). There are plenty of changes since the transition to Living Gladius. Make sure you read up on the FAQ and World of Gladius thread (starts around post 21, see my link a couple of posts above). Again, glad to see you back. (Now if we can just get Ethendril and Magagumo to come back ...) -Jindl
OdinTheReaper 02-10-05, 07:57 PM	Question: Where do you keep a record of the credits you recieve? Also how many credits does it take to start a new character. And for a character at a different starting ECL (ex: ECL 9)?
One_Winged_Angel 02-10-05, 08:06 PM	@Pitlords: Curious: Is Naerdaloth's chart correct? That would be fun. @All: Well, I've started something akin to Cat, may you all forgive me. I decided that I'd start up characters with an equal interest in roleplay as in combat. However, I'd like anyone who would like to lend me a hand with something. Please don't read the following unless you want to help me. Thanks. I need help with vampires. If anyone wants to lend me a hand, either send me a PM or chat on AIM. Thanks.
Jindl 02-10-05, 08:07 PM	Question: Where do you keep a record of the credits you recieve? Also how many credits does it take to start a new character. And for a character at a different starting ECL (ex: ECL 9)? There is a list of pitlords on the Characters of Gladius thread. The credits are recorded as +'s next to the pitlord's name. Inactive pitlords (like MB) are down at the bottom of the list and grey'd out. It doesn't cost any credits to make a new ECL3 character, however for each pc beyond 2 that it active at once, it costs 1 credit. Active = fighting, crafting, etc. It costs 1 credit for each pc involved in a quest as well. To create a character above ECL3, it costs 4 credits for each +1 in ECL. Note: At the moment, only ECL4 has been unlocked for new characters. Also, characters created at higher than ECL3 must be at the miminum starting ECL. Hopefully that clears things up.
OdinTheReaper 02-10-05, 09:29 PM	Yeah pretty much..I didnt clearly understand the + - thing in the thread....now i do thanks.
Snommelp 02-10-05, 09:42 PM	So here's a strange question: is it possible to force-feed your mount a potion?
One_Winged_Angel 02-10-05, 09:52 PM	Stupid Question: How long does it take to craft items in Gladius? Mostly Alchemist Fires and smokesticks with Craft(Alchemy).
Snommelp 02-10-05, 10:21 PM	Stupid Question: How long does it take to craft items in Gladius? Mostly Alchemist Fires and smokesticks with Craft(Alchemy). Stupid Answer: As long as it takes. Real answer: It's assumed that you take 10 on the Craft check. From there, it fits with the description in the Craft skill: (Check Result x DC)/Price in Silver = progress for the week When you reach or exceed 1, you complete the item. If you get a 2 or 3 from the equation, you finish in 1/2 or 1/3 the time; the same for larger numbers.
One_Winged_Angel 02-10-05, 10:44 PM	So, lets just say for example that I wanted to make Alchemist Fire's for one of my characters. I had a 10 craft check, so that totals 20. 20x20=400. We divide by 200 and get 2. So I could make 2 Alchemist fires per week? And do we still go by the 1/2 or do we now go to 1/3 for cost? Do first time characters get a certain time to make items?
Snommelp 02-10-05, 11:03 PM	1) Yes, you could make two vials of Alchemist's Fire a week. 2) As far as I know, it's 1/3 now, since there's a definite amount of time we're dealing with. 3) For first time characters, I have no idea. You'll have to ask someone wiser than I (which is pretty much everyone).
Dalton Onestone 02-10-05, 11:35 PM	Stupid Question: How long does it take to craft items in Gladius? Mostly Alchemist Fires and smokesticks with Craft(Alchemy). 1000 GP of listed price per day, for any kind of item. This is vastly faster than DMG times. Limit one day per week of crafting unless you're willing to sit out of competition that week while still having your gladiator counted as "active".
Snommelp 02-10-05, 11:38 PM	1000 GP of listed price per day, for any kind of item. This is vastly faster than DMG times. Limit one day per week of crafting unless you're willing to sit out of competition that week while still having your gladiator counted as "active". :blush: proof that you shouldn't listen to me... I don't know what I'm talking 'bout, Willis!
Dalton Onestone 02-10-05, 11:39 PM	well its your character and mine...i thought that having a two handed weapon negates the feat...i'll look it up We discussed it here before. Using a two-handed weapon doesn't negate the feat. Holding a two-handed weapon ready for an AoO, however, does negate the feat. That's one reason Kwerrock carries a Dwarven Waraxe as well as a selection of two-handed weapons.
OdinTheReaper 02-11-05, 12:47 AM	oh i see...i was wondering for Odin's fight and the one im pitlording..thanks though
Naerdaloth 02-11-05, 09:29 AM	Can a character be psionically focused (like for the purpose of feats) even if they dont have levels in a psionic class, but they have pp, as from race or Wild Talent?
T'Var 02-11-05, 09:49 AM	Can a character be psionically focused (like for the purpose of feats) even if they dont have levels in a psionic class, but they have pp, as from race or Wild Talent? If you have 1 or more power points available, you can meditate to attempt to become psionically focused. The DC to become psionically focused is 20. Meditating is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. so basicly, if you have any pp you can focus yes
One_Winged_Angel 02-11-05, 09:52 AM	A new character, Roy Mustang, (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5195030&postcount=137) has been posted by me. Coincidentally, question relating to psionic characters. With Deep Crystal, do the PP used for that count toward your total?
T'Var 02-11-05, 10:02 AM	A new character, Roy Mustang, (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5195030&postcount=137) has been posted by me. Coincidentally, question relating to psionic characters. With Deep Crystal, do the PP used for that count toward your total? yup. all usables like spells and pp are 1/3rd no mater what there use is for
MotherBast 02-11-05, 10:14 AM	I have the beginnings of a character posted. Still much to do, but if someone who has been here a while and knows wether or not I'm doing it right under the new format wouldn't mind checking it for me, that would be great. I also wouldn't mind knowing if it is too similar to any other active characters at the moment, so I can talk to the owner and make sure we arent' going in the same direction. I sincerly doubt anyone else is going Rog3/Wiz5/Ass1/AT3/SD2/Dulist1/EK5 are they?
T'Var 02-11-05, 10:50 AM	I have the beginnings of a character posted. Still much to do, but if someone who has been here a while and knows wether or not I'm doing it right under the new format wouldn't mind checking it for me, that would be great. I also wouldn't mind knowing if it is too similar to any other active characters at the moment, so I can talk to the owner and make sure we arent' going in the same direction. I sincerly doubt anyone else is going Rog3/Wiz5/Ass1/AT3/SD2/Dulist1/EK5 are they? couple violations on your sheet, with your familior otherwise looks good
Evadyn 02-11-05, 11:15 AM	Ok my character is completed. Gabriel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5432785&postcount=198) Could somone check it? Also how do I register for a fight, just say that i'm ready? or do I have to PM Pitlords or someone? Thank you.
T'Var 02-11-05, 11:26 AM	Ok my character is completed. Gabriel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5432785&postcount=198) Could somone chack it? Also how do I register for a fight, just say that i'm ready? or do I have to PM Pitlords or someone? Thank you. prebuffs have to last 16 hours, so flame blade cannot be cast before battle starts. also what kind of animal is your companion, also note its +'s to str and dex as from coming from druid, and the +1 stat adjust for being a higher hd and feat
Naerdaloth 02-11-05, 11:52 AM	Can a paladin use scrolls before level 4? I'd like to say yes, because it is of correct type, on class list, and have requisite ability score, but they are considered CL0. Is this correct?
Jindl 02-11-05, 11:55 AM	Can a paladin use scrolls before level 4? I'd like to say yes, because it is of correct type, on class list, and have requisite ability score, but they are considered CL0. Is this correct? No they can't. No caster level is different than CL0. Prior to 4th level, paladins and rangers have no caster level.
Naerdaloth 02-11-05, 01:03 PM	Gasp! Its Moonmoon's archnemesis, Earthsun Sunglaive! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5430505&postcount=197) (or, um.. a completely unrelated, barely similar paladin)
Dalton Onestone 02-11-05, 01:26 PM	Can a paladin use scrolls before level 4? I'd like to say yes, because it is of correct type, on class list, and have requisite ability score, but they are considered CL0. Is this correct? What Jindl said. To use a scroll, you have to either have the correct CL or pass a CL check. Neither is possible, because you don't actually have a CL.
Evadyn 02-11-05, 01:38 PM	but he can still use wands?
Dalton Onestone 02-11-05, 01:51 PM	but he can still use wands? Absolutely. "Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) "
Evadyn 02-11-05, 02:10 PM	then he can just make a wand with 1 charge A wnad of CLW with one charge costs only 15gp (2=30gp, 3=45gp
Jindl 02-11-05, 02:11 PM	then he can just make a wand with 1 charge A wnad of CLW with one charge costs only 15gp (2=30gp, 3=45gp In the CoCo, wands can only be purchased/made with 50 charges. :D
Evadyn 02-11-05, 02:33 PM	In the CoCo, wands can only be purchased/made with 50 charges. :D :weep: : ...
Dalton Onestone 02-11-05, 02:55 PM	There's one active ranger character with a CLW wand. And Kwerrock -- a meleer with Deflect Arrows and a variety of magic abilities -- has a wand of CL1 Magic Missiles to discourage opponents from entering into longrange horse-shooting competitions.
Snommelp 02-11-05, 03:11 PM	So here's a strange question: is it possible to force-feed your mount a potion? Anybody? Anybody at all? Bueller?
T'Var 02-11-05, 03:15 PM	Anybody? Anybody at all? Bueller? it is a full round action to feed a potion to an ally
Kaigan 02-11-05, 03:30 PM	Hey all, I will be starting a quest soon. I would like to know if anyone would be interested. If you are please send me a PM with the details of why you are questing, and some roleplay information please. Thanks. Kaigan
Jindl 02-11-05, 03:30 PM	There's one active ranger character with a CLW wand. And Kwerrock -- a meleer with Deflect Arrows and a variety of magic abilities -- has a wand of CL1 Magic Missiles to discourage opponents from entering into longrange horse-shooting competitions. Wands are definately still useful, even though they must be purchased or made with 50 charges. BTW: That rule extends to magical ammunition and similar stuff as well. So if you want to buy/make magical +1 flaming arrows (or bolts or bullets), you have to buy/make 50 at once. Specific weapons (arrows of slaying, sleep arrows, screaming bolts, etc) are not subject to this rule and can be bought/made individually.
Dalton Onestone 02-11-05, 03:56 PM	Also how do I register for a fight, just say that i'm ready? or do I have to PM Pitlords or someone? Say it in the title to the post with your character sheet AND PM Pitlords. No PM ==> high likelihood it gets overlooked.
Snommelp 02-11-05, 03:57 PM	it is a full round action to feed a potion to an ally Thanks, T'Var. That might save Cedric a spell or two in between fights on his quest.
One_Winged_Angel 02-13-05, 01:57 AM	Yay! Boards be back! Ok, question again. Do prebuff spells/powers count toward our maximum alloted spells/pp per fight?
LLMadCow 02-13-05, 02:34 AM	Yay! Boards be back! Ok, question again. Do prebuff spells/powers count toward our maximum alloted spells/pp per fight? from the Living Gladius FAQ Can I cast buff spells, drink potions, etc, before the beginning of a match? You may enter the arena with effects running that have a duration of 16 hours or more, which we call Pre-Buffs. Pre-Buffs do count against your spell slots or special ability uses that are available for the day (if they're spells, you have to prepare the given spell and gray it out on your character sheet), but they do not count against your per-fight 1/3 limit of spells. Going with teh example of the level 8 Wizard above; if he used a Rod of Lesser Extend Spell, he could put up an Extended Mage Armor before his fight (16 hours of duration exactly). He would not be able to cast Mage Armor again during the fight, but he would still have all 11 of his per-fight spell levels left for the fight. Similarly, he could still use anothet charge of his Rod of Lesser Extend on another spell (perhaps Invisibility) in the fight itself. Pre-Buffs with a duration of "permanent" or "until discharged" should be listed as part of your equipment, and do not even count against your spell slots. Spell-storing items are considered to be Pre-Buffs which you list in the equipment section, and are the only non-permanent Pre-Buffs where you may receive assistance from an NPC or Ally. PC's may pay for spellcasting services to store spells into spell-storing items. Psionic characters may pre-buff with their psionic focus, if they have a Concentration skill of at least +0 (assumed to take 20 on the check). This may need to be confirmed or clarified, but I believe that we also have the options of using scrolls or stones for pre-buffs.
Caterane 02-13-05, 04:55 PM	@ALL: Because of the Board Downtime (3 days?) we have to postpone the pairings. The exact date depends on the pitlords: if most of the fights are up by tuesday, pairings will be rolled on wednesday normally if most of the fights are up by wednesday, pairings will be rolled on thursday if there are still too many fight missing by wednesday, we will prolong the pairings and skip a week. With the weekend missing we cannot force people to run the fights till wednesday but for the sake of everyone we can at least try to. So guys (and gals ...do we have any??), let's get the fights going! :)
Arstimis 02-13-05, 05:32 PM	I had a question for a new character I am making. He has a very small amount of skill points to use.....like 1...he is a psychic warrior Do i need to have the Psicraft skill in order to cast powerstones?
SnarkHunter 02-13-05, 05:50 PM	We've previously allowed gladiators to take 20 on a pregame skill check when there is no penalty for failure (Such as when gaining Psionic focus for instance), and there doesn't seem to be a penalty for failing an addressing check so that should be possible. Its worth noting though, that Psicraft is trained only, so you would need at least 1 rank to be able to address a stone.
Arstimis 02-13-05, 05:53 PM	We've previously allowed gladiators to take 20 on a pregame skill check when there is no penalty for failure (Such as when gaining Psionic focus for instance), and there doesn't seem to be a penalty for failing an addressing check so that should be possible. Its worth noting though, that Psicraft is trained only, so you would need at least 1 rank to be able to address a stone. Ok, thanks a bunch for the information SnarkHunter
Sindorin 02-13-05, 10:55 PM	@ALL: Because of the Board Downtime (3 days?) we have to postpone the pairings. The exact date depends on the pitlords: if most of the fights are up by tuesday, pairings will be rolled on wednesday normally if most of the fights are up by wednesday, pairings will be rolled on thursday if there are still too many fight missing by wednesday, we will prolong the pairings and skip a week. With the weekend missing we cannot force people to run the fights till wednesday but for the sake of everyone we can at least try to. So guys (and gals ...do we have any??), let's get the fights going! :) Nanaleigh is a 'gal'. Otherwise my father would probably disown me.
Dalton Onestone 02-13-05, 11:29 PM	If a mounted gladiator is based by a horse, and he dismounts, does that provoke an AoO?
cellardweller 02-13-05, 11:36 PM	Move Action Attack of Opportunity1 Mount a horse or dismount No From combatI.rtf
OdinTheReaper 02-14-05, 01:05 AM	Need help on my fight...would someone please explain how Fenir's flatfooted AC is 19?!? Here's his sheet: Fenir Ahea Those of the Winged Sea of Dust (Born) Leukish (Resides) Nuetral Good Ahea (Human) Ftr 1/Sor 2 Experience: 3500 XP Next level: 6000 XP Statistics: STR....14 (+2) [4] DEX....14 (+1) [4] CON....14 (+2) [10] INT.....14 (+2) [6] WIS....10 (0) [2] Cha.....16 (+3) [10] Hitpoints:........21 [10 (Ftr1st) + 2*2.5 (Sor2) +6 (con)] Bab/Grp:........+2/+3 Movement:.....20' Initiative:.......+1 [+1dex] Armor Class:...20 (touch 11, flat 19, both 10) [+1dex, +9 Armor] Saves: For +4 [2 (Ftr) 0 (Sor) +2 (con)] Ref +2 [0 (Ftr) 0 (Sor) +2 (dex)] Will +3 [0 (Ftr) 3 (Sor) +0 (wis)] Race/Class abilities: Bonus Feat, Armor & Weapon Prof: all, Bonus Feat, Summon familiar Regular feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Still Spell Bonus feats: Deflect Arrows Skills: 24 total (*cc) [Skill points: 16 (Ftr) 8 (Sor)] Concentration +7 [+5 (Sor) +2 (con)] Knowledge Arcana +5 [+3 (Sor) +2 (int)] Tumble +1 [+4 (Ftr) +2 (dex) -5 ACP] Languages: Common, Celestial, Draconic Attacks: [+2 bab, +2/+4 ability] Melee touch:........+4 melee (20/x2) Ranged touch:......+4 ranged (20/x2) Longsword:..........+4 melee, 1d8+2 (19-20/x2) Equipment: *self-made (gold) [weight] General equipment: Weapon: Longsword (15) [4 lb] Armor: +1 Full Plate (2800) [50] Misc: Ahea outfit (0) Expendable Items: [CL] (Gold/XP) Companions and Equipment: Equipment at home: Wealth: 385 Gold Misc: Wing Covers Spells per day: [Dc16+lvl][CL 3] [11 spell levels; cast: 2 spell levels] 35% ASF 0: Acid Splash, Touch of Fatigue, Read Magic, Ray of Frost, 1: Magic Missile, Expaditious Retreat ALso: how many spells can he use...im not familiar with sorcerers/wizards??
Kaigan 02-14-05, 01:14 AM	Flat foot AC is just the normal 10 + any armor he has. Flat foot AC is where don't get your dex to ac, and since he has +1 fullplate. His AC becomes 10 + 8 fullplate +1 enchantment
OdinTheReaper 02-14-05, 01:15 AM	ok but how many spells does he get....im not used to spellcasters??
Snommelp 02-14-05, 01:18 AM	As a level 2 Sorcerer, he(she?) gets 4 level 1 spells per day, +1 bonus spell for Charisma. In CoCo, that gets divided by 3 and rounds up to 2 level 1 spells for the fight, plus all of his(her?) potential cantrips, which is 6. And, when casting spells, do not forget the Arcane Spell Failure of 35%
OdinTheReaper 02-14-05, 01:19 AM	ok i figured it was something like that but i wasnt 100% sure....thanks though
SnarkHunter 02-14-05, 04:09 PM	If anyone has a minute, I'm working on a character for my RL campaign but don't have much time to get the build together before next week's game. If your intrested I posted about what I'm looking for on the CO board. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5444540#post5444540) Thanks in advance :).
One_Winged_Angel 02-14-05, 05:07 PM	Question: Can we use the Overchannel feat or wilder Wild Surge when crafting items?
Megrim_Lord 02-14-05, 10:14 PM	I'm just about to post my finished gladiator on the char thread, but one question first: I know some PLs request we send tactics via email, well, I dont use email, so would PMs be an acceptable alternative for those PLs who have said request?
Sindorin 02-14-05, 10:37 PM	tactics could easily be pm'd. If this is somehow not possible, they can be PM'd to a neutral party that can forward them via the correct medium. Welcome to Gladius!!!
One_Winged_Angel 02-14-05, 11:24 PM	Question: Can we use the Overchannel feat or wilder Wild Surge when crafting items? Just making sure I don't get lost in that Sig... @Cat: And you said my sig was long ;) Oh, and my reason for psion related questions: Kailia, (http://boards1.wizards.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=5195011) has been posted. Egoist 3. Check for errors. I'm sure I must have made one in there...
Jindl 02-14-05, 11:48 PM	Question: Can we use the Overchannel feat or wilder Wild Surge when crafting items? Nope.
Dalton Onestone 02-15-05, 12:45 AM	I dont use email, What do you have against webmail?
Snommelp 02-15-05, 12:59 AM	Hey, Megrim_Lord's here! Do you remember me, Meg?
Pitlords 02-15-05, 04:42 AM	Welcome Megrim Lord, Welcome Spasheridan! Welcome back Motherbast! If you have any questions, you can either ask here or send a PM to the GMs, the Elders (see titles), or this account here. @ALL: Since there are too many fights missing, pairings have just been postponed to thursday. The next checkpoint will be tomorow evening. If there are still more than 1 or 2 fights missing, we will skip a week. So please try to get your fights up, if possible. If you are both Questlord and Pitlord, try to finish the arena fights first if you have to choose. @OWA: :surrender
Megrim_Lord 02-15-05, 02:54 PM	Hey, Megrim_Lord's here! Do you remember me, Meg? course I remember you, but if I hear you call me meg one more time I'll slit your throat! :D What do you have against webmail? nothing, I'm just barred from using it until I get my own computer
Dalton Onestone 02-15-05, 03:10 PM	I don't understand why, if almost nothing else that happens in the arena is permanent, familiar death has permanent consequences. Unless I'm missing something, the only permanent effects that come out of events in the arena (consumption of expendables, and awards, aside) are: XP loss from familiar death Dispelling of permanent spells Other than a general desire to nerf wizards, is there anything special about those two kinds of event that requires a whole separate category just for them?
Dalton Onestone 02-15-05, 04:56 PM	Is there an issue of "range increment" or range penalty for ranged touch attacks? And do normal cover penalties apply?
One_Winged_Angel 02-15-05, 05:12 PM	You know, I'm going over it, and I'm seeing problems with psionic characters in the way of PP. Somehow, 5 pp doesn't come anywhere close to the 5 spells that normal casters get. I'd like to have the elders review this. I'm going to personally start looking at psionic fights (note: not soul knives/psi warriors. They don't count. Wilders/Psions are what I'm looking at) I know SnarkHunter does well with Buddah, but I'm looking around and I'm seeing a few problems with how psionic classes suffer from lack of PP unless they devote a lot of 1) Ability points 2) powerstones into their characters. The real issue that I find is that, unlike normal casters, they don't draw from a seperate pool of spells, they draw from one. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem, except if a caster wants to increase an ability, it isn't dependent on level, its dependent on PP and augmentation. Anyway, just some thoughts that likely won't be taken seriously or into consideration. Peace out.
T'Var 02-15-05, 05:28 PM	Is there an issue of "range increment" or range penalty for ranged touch attacks? And do normal cover penalties apply? there are no increment's with ranged touch spells. there range is what the spell says. cover bonus do apply
Dalton Onestone 02-15-05, 05:37 PM	there are no increment's with ranged touch spells. there range is what the spell says. cover bonus do apply Thanks. On the psionic point -- how is their problem different from sorcerors'? Of course, there aren't a lot of sorceror characters ...
T'Var 02-15-05, 05:43 PM	psions/wilders are ment to be weaker than mages due to there extream lack of powers however at 3rd lvl i dont know any mage spell that can do 5d6+5 dmg that auto hits but something as simple as a wild surged energy stun gives you that with the chance of stunning your foe for a round its all about the spells/powers you choose
One_Winged_Angel 02-15-05, 05:58 PM	psions/wilders are ment to be weaker than mages due to there extream lack of powers however at 3rd lvl i dont know any mage spell that can do 5d6+5 dmg that auto hits but something as simple as a wild surged energy stun gives you that with the chance of stunning your foe for a round its all about the spells/powers you choose *Claps.* Good, good. But your overlooking something. A few somethings, actually. 1) Wilders have access to that, but guess what? That would be the only level 2 spell they had. Sure, if they are offensive, why not? 2) That tactic you just described burned all the PP for said Wilder. They have maybe 1 pp left after that. If someone passes the save or has resistance of some kind, fight just ended in favor of the psion's opponent. 3) If they used this tactic, they also have 0 other powers they can cast. Lets say a psion wants an inertial armor. Whoops, can't do that. Or maybe a vigor to heal. Oh, can't do that either. 4) Ok, so we have some moron who has low reflex and will saves (a half orc fighter comes to mind). Odds are, they will survive due to higher con/HD. And the psion is again screwed. 5) You are right in no wizard having that, but I think that 2 burning hands comes to about the same effect. Sure, it takes longer, but the wizard is comforted by the fact that he can also cast mage armor and a 2nd level spell of his choice without draining half of everything he can do.
Naerdaloth 02-15-05, 06:10 PM	@Snommelp: Sorry about the delays in the quest lately, but I plan to have a reply for Cedric up sometime later this evening.
Snommelp 02-15-05, 08:17 PM	's alright. Just don't fall as far behind as Ash seems to have fallen...
Jindl 02-15-05, 08:48 PM	's alright. Just don't fall as far behind as Ash seems to have fallen... Yeah, what happened? Did Ash get a girlfriend or something? ;)
spasheridan 02-15-05, 10:53 PM	Hey Folks, newbie here. I just made my first gladius PC (Fyhir) and I wanted to ask you folks if u could take a peek at him and make sure he isn't in violation. If my post fu powers work then this should be a link to him, otherwise he's the last one in the characters page as of now. My Guy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5448819&origin=) My main concern is the crafting. He has a total +10 weaponsmith and +10 armorsmith (with tools and dwarfness) so I believe this should be sufficient to craft myself masterwork full plate and a masterwork greataxe. Onto something completely differant, I was reading through the fights and noticed someone had a paladin. Under their paladin powers they listed lay on hands and had the full amount of healing available. Since you can break it down into as many individual heals as you would like, wouldn't you only be allowed to use 1/3rd of your lay on hands in the arena, and same with a monks wholeness of body? THANKS!
Dalton Onestone 02-15-05, 11:20 PM	@spasheridan -- this is a little thing, but unless the saddle is MW you don't get a +2 bonus on Ride across the board. A convention here is to get MW bit/bridle for a +2 bonus to Ride, actually. I have a character in different classes, but he's a dwarf with your choice of stats and the same weapon choices, pretty much. You might want to look at his sheet to see if anything jumps out at you. His name is Kwerrock, and he's post 127 (on page 5) of the characters thread.
Dalton Onestone 02-15-05, 11:47 PM	Can one make reflex saves while Hideously Laughing? If so, is it at one's standard modifier? Also, can a helpless person make reflex saves?
Jindl 02-16-05, 12:17 AM	Can one make reflex saves while Hideously Laughing? If so, is it at one's standard modifier? Also, can a helpless person make reflex saves? Yes, Yes, Yes.
spasheridan 02-16-05, 12:20 AM	Helpless: Paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, uncosius..... a helples target is treated as having a dex of 0 (-5). Melee..... Looks like a helpless persons's saving throws are as normal except their dex is 0. In other words, yes, a sleeping person gets a reflex save vs a fireball. It doesn't make much sense if you think of a reflex save as an ACTION that someone takes, but it could just as easy be a luck factor. The fireball isn't as hot HERE because of (blah blah blah). I do believe that evasion (an active thing) specificly states that a helpless person doesn't benefit from evasion.... which would make no sense if a helpless person can't even make the reflex save. As far as Tasha's goes... well, you can take no actions while laughing does not mean you can't make saves. It would be a normal save and you would be allowed to use evasion because you are specificly NOT considered helpless.
Sindorin 02-16-05, 12:27 AM	Wow, that was creepy having two different people post with the same avatar...
KerlanRayne 02-16-05, 05:15 AM	Hey Folks, newbie here. I just made my first gladius PC (Fyhir) and I wanted to ask you folks if u could take a peek at him and make sure he isn't in violation. My main concern is the crafting. He has a total +10 weaponsmith and +10 armorsmith (with tools and dwarfness) so I believe this should be sufficient to craft myself masterwork full plate and a masterwork greataxe. Well I would scrap Narrow Mind and Combat Manifestation to replace them with Skill Focus(Concentration). Much better deal in my opinion and you would have a free feat. Your Full Plate should cost 825 instead of 900. For masterwork armor you only add 150 gp. I assume you crafted your dagger so make sure to mark it that way. You have an extra skill point to spend. Try to get the masterwork Bit and Bridle for +2 to Ride. For the craft skills, you can craft masterwork items, just list the +10 total though, not the +6 with it. KerlanRayne
cellardweller 02-16-05, 09:30 AM	You know, I'm going over it, and I'm seeing problems with psionic characters in the way of PP. Somehow, 5 pp doesn't come anywhere close to the 5 spells that normal casters get. I'd like to have the elders review this. I'm going to personally start looking at psionic fights (note: not soul knives/psi warriors. They don't count. Wilders/Psions are what I'm looking at) I know SnarkHunter does well with Buddah, but I'm looking around and I'm seeing a few problems with how psionic classes suffer from lack of PP unless they devote a lot of 1) Ability points 2) powerstones into their characters. The real issue that I find is that, unlike normal casters, they don't draw from a seperate pool of spells, they draw from one. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem, except if a caster wants to increase an ability, it isn't dependent on level, its dependent on PP and augmentation. Anyway, just some thoughts that likely won't be taken seriously or into consideration. Peace out. I will point you at this thread for consideration. The fundamental idea that permiates throughout is that a psion is over-the-top powerful if they are allowed to spend all their pp in a single fight. This is countered by the fact that they have a smaller total amount of spells/powers to draw from in a single day. I believe that the collesium models this quite nicely.
cellardweller 02-16-05, 09:40 AM	I don't understand why, if almost nothing else that happens in the arena is permanent, familiar death has permanent consequences. Unless I'm missing something, the only permanent effects that come out of events in the arena (consumption of expendables, and awards, aside) are: XP loss from familiar death Dispelling of permanent spells Other than a general desire to nerf wizards, is there anything special about those two kinds of event that requires a whole separate category just for them? While I agree with you on familiars, there is a very good reason that permanent effects are dispellable I'll use magic fang to illustrate. A permanent magic fang +5 costs 20*3*10+11*5*10+1500*5=8650 for each weapon An amulet on natural attacks +5 costs 150000 and uses your necklace slot. So in effect you are paying a *significantly* lower price for the same effect, on the understanding that it may be dispelled.
cellardweller 02-16-05, 09:41 AM	course I remember you, but if I hear you call me meg one more time I'll slit your throat! :D Thats the best way to ensure that the name sticks ;)
One_Winged_Angel 02-16-05, 09:47 AM	I will point you at this thread for consideration. The fundamental idea that permiates throughout is that a psion is over-the-top powerful if they are allowed to spend all their pp in a single fight. This is countered by the fact that they have a smaller total amount of spells/powers to draw from in a single day. I believe that the collesium models this quite nicely. Believe it or not, I actually agree with you. I played a keneticist in an offline camp and if I was ever to use every PP in a battle...well, lets just say I thought of naughty ways to use my powers. Still, the fact remains that until we get to higher levels, having the use of 1 good power without spending money seems kinda weak. Maybe even 1/2 pp. And, cellar, I'd like to thank you for not only looking at my argument, but finding me new ones before you started thrashing me. Thanks to T'Var too for sparring with me.
cellardweller 02-16-05, 09:50 AM	Sorry, I just noticed this now, but metamagic rods DO need to be held, which is why you can only use one on a spell that requires somatic components. Please let me know if that changes your tactics at all. Ok then, start with rod in shield hand. Before going on to "if plan A fails" drop rod and draw scroll 3. Spiritual weapons won't be extended, obviously. I won't contest it for the purposes of this fight, but I'm interested in why you think so as I can't find anything to suggest that they do. Jindl, I'd still like to know why you think so as I disagree. Activation: Details relating to rod use vary from item to item. See the individual descriptions for specifics. Metamagic Rods: Metamagic rods hold the essence of a metamagic feat but do not change the spell slot of the altered spell. All the rods described here are use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws an attack of opportunity). A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any given spell[b], but it is permissible to combine a rod with metamagic feats possessed by the rod’s wielder. In this case, only the feats possessed by the wielder adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast. [b][i]Possession[i][b] of a metamagic rod does not confer the associated feat on the owner, [b]only the ability to use the given feat a specified number of times per day. A sorcerer still must take a full-round action when using a metamagic rod, just as if using a metamagic feat he possesses. To me it clearly says that you only need to posess the rod, not hold it.
Jindl 02-16-05, 11:50 AM	Rod's must be held because they are use-activated.
Sindorin 02-16-05, 11:59 AM	They also must be held because in the above quoted definition the person using the rod is the 'wielder'. You can't wield something with your pocket.
Dalton Onestone 02-16-05, 01:07 PM	Like it or not, the prevailing philosophy is that casters are much stronger at higher levels than fighting types, even after the nerfing (it is believed). Also, they can get magic items at half price, pretty much, if you disregard the XP cost and assume they take several crafting feats. Therefore, if at lower levels they can't win fights without consuming a lot of expendable items, so what? The lack of gold at higher levels is just balancing factor to their other advantages. I haven't been around long enough to have a strong opinion as to whether that logic will hold up.
Pittbull 02-16-05, 01:27 PM	Permanent XP-loss, if your familiar dies in an arena-battle! :thumbsdow This rule is realy bad, we have to fix that to: you get your lost XP back when your familiar is resurrected after the fight. Any other opinions?
Sindorin 02-16-05, 02:32 PM	Well, I say there are two states of precedence on the topic. The first, as I said earlier, is the fact that we have followed the penaty rule for losing or dismissing a familiar. I don't even like this rule either. The second reason is the one I am going to back. This is our rules where we say that after dying you are resurrected by the "nimbus" before you lose your level's worth of experience points. This should apply to the familiar as well, since technically the familiar is a part of the wizard himself. Basically, auto-res it based on the fact that the character himself would be auto-res'd.
Jindl 02-16-05, 03:01 PM	The second reason is the one I am going to back. This is our rules where we say that after dying you are resurrected by the "nimbus" before you lose your level's worth of experience points. This should apply to the familiar as well, since technically the familiar is a part of the wizard himself. Basically, auto-res it based on the fact that the character himself would be auto-res'd. That's not accurate. You aren't resurrected "before you lose your level's worth of experience points." Instead, you are True Resurrected, which restores you without any loss of xp. For those creatures who cannot be restored through True Resurrection (such as constructs, outsiders, and undead), you are restored via a Wish. In either case, the reason you don't lose experience is not becuase you are resurrected quickly, it is because a 9th level spell is used to restore you. The xp lost from dismissing or death of a familiar is a totally independent topic.
Sindorin 02-16-05, 03:16 PM	That's not accurate. You aren't resurrected "before you lose your level's worth of experience points." Instead, you are True Resurrected, which restores you without any loss of xp. For those creatures who cannot be restored through True Resurrection (such as constructs, outsiders, and undead), you are restored via a Wish. In either case, the reason you don't lose experience is not becuase you are resurrected quickly, it is because a 9th level spell is used to restore you. The xp lost from dismissing or death of a familiar is a totally independent topic. D'oh. :rolleyes:
Dalton Onestone 02-16-05, 03:55 PM	Speaking of rods, if a rod has multiple powers, can one use them all, or does the 1/3 rule still apply. The Rod of Thunder and Lightning is a good example for discusssion. * Thunder: Once per day, the rod can strike as a +3 light mace, and the opponent struck is stunned from the noise of the rod’s impact (Fortitude DC 16 negates). Activating this power counts as a free action, and it works if the wielder strikes an opponent within 1 round. * Lightning: Once per day, when the wielder desires, a short spark of electricity can leap forth when the rod strikes an opponent to deal the normal damage for a +2 light mace (1d6+2) and an extra 2d6 points of electricity damage. Even when the rod might not score a normal hit in combat, if the roll was good enough to count as a successful melee touch attack hit, then the 2d6 points of electricity damage still applies. The wielder activates this power as a free action, and it works if he strikes an opponent within 1 round. * Thunderclap: Once per day as a standard action, the wielder can cause the rod to give out a deafening noise, just as a shout spell (Fortitude DC 16 partial, 2d6 points of sonic damage, target deafened for 2d6 rounds). * Lightning Stroke: Once per day as a standard action, the wielder can cause the rod to shoot out a 5-foot-wide lightning bolt (9d6 points of electricity damage, Reflex DC 16 half ) to a range of 200 feet. * Thunder and Lightning: Once per week as a standard action, the wielder of the rod can combine the thunderclap described above with a lightning bolt, as in the lightning stroke. The thunderclap affects all within 10 feet of the bolt. The lightning stroke deals 9d6 points of electricity damage (count rolls of 1 or 2 as rolls of 3, for a range of 27 to 54 points), and the thunderclap deals 2d6 points of sonic damage. A single DC 16 Reflex save applies for both effects.
Jindl 02-16-05, 04:05 PM	The 1/3rd rule applies to each of the rod's powers individually. So in this case, each of the rod's powers can be used once per day.
LLMadCow 02-16-05, 04:49 PM	:king: I do not know if Cat wears hats, but regardless, I want to let people know what a great guy Cat is. He has been running my quest, which is really awesome and EVERYONE should read it when it is finished. Above and beyond running the quest, he has been tolerating me. For those who know me, I am decidely a crazy :crazy: and sometimes difficult guy to work with. More so when my life is spiraling out of control, as mine has been doing for the last week or so; I've spent days on the phone trying to get some of my problems cleared up, but the powers that be have denied me thus far. :censored: Needless to say, I have been positively, absolutely a pain in the rear. Despite my hemmeroidal tendancies, Cat has been a real trooper and a fine GM. My quest has had me on the edge of my seat, on the floor laughing in hysterics and trying to come up with some of the craziest and most insane tactics one can imagine. (How many have ever considered inflicting pain to their PC to avoid a sleep spell? Fire? Falling damage? Am I the only one?) We have some debates :banghead: about some aspects of the quest, but all in all it has been very fun. I may not be able to swim my way to Germany and deliver a hearty hand shake and a hug, but I do want everyone in the CoCo to know... Caterane is second to none! :cheer: :w00t: :dancin: :clap: :bounce: :clap: :dancin: :w00t: :cheer:
Jindl 02-16-05, 04:58 PM	We'll see what you think if Oz bites the dust from another sleep spell ;) (j/k)
LLMadCow 02-16-05, 05:21 PM	We'll see what you think if Oz bites the dust from another sleep spell. Yeah. I had to get that message posted before Oz dies. :P
One_Winged_Angel 02-16-05, 05:45 PM	Either pitlords hate me or my characters suck. Since I'm going under the second assumption (I have faith in humanity), I've basically decided to do away with Aloran and Lia. Keth is sticking around because I expected him to suck at this level. Anyway, I posted both of these characters, but as usual with most things I post (My psion debate, for example), I'm pretty sure they got ignored. Kailia (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5195011&postcount=136) the Egoist is coming out for a while. I've also decided to give a pyro a shot once again, so now I give you Roy Mustang (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5195030&postcount=137) the flame alchemist. *Sigh* Scan them over for errors. And no stupid comments on Kailia having doing too much physical damage. I will take all such comments as signs of fear and arrange challanges accordingly :)
Naerdaloth 02-16-05, 05:48 PM	Not wishing to interfere with Oz's pilgrimage, but isn't the wizard a bit extreme? He cast web, without mention of a scroll or wand that I see, which means he has to be wizard level 3. Which, is a minimum 3 class levels. Unless its a level 4 adept? Either way, it would be a CR 3 (PC class level, or NPC class level -1). And CR 3 = EL 3, at least according to this site i use: http://www.thegamehub.com/gm/encounter.asp Not to mention, CR is generally supposed to be applied as a challenge for a group of 4 PCs, not 1. Even though COCO gladiators are a bit tougher, and have more resources, this wizard seems to be as equipped as Uhmentary. And if this is a standard ECL 3 vs ECL 3 duel, its not fair to have 1 already half spent and the other not even applying COCO rules (like 1/3 spell levels, assuming he has in fact not been using scrolls thus far)
T'Var 02-16-05, 05:55 PM	Not wishing to interfere with Oz's pilgrimage, but isn't the wizard a bit extreme? He cast web, without mention of a scroll or wand that I see, which means he has to be wizard level 3. Which, is a minimum 3 class levels. Unless its a level 4 adept? Either way, it would be a CR 3 (PC class level, or NPC class level -1). And CR 3 = EL 3, at least according to this site i use: http://www.thegamehub.com/gm/encounter.asp Not to mention, CR is generally supposed to be applied as a challenge for a group of 4 PCs, not 1. Even though COCO gladiators are a bit tougher, and have more resources, this wizard seems to be as equipped as Uhmentary. And if this is a standard ECL 3 vs ECL 3 duel, its not fair to have 1 already half spent and the other not even applying COCO rules (like 1/3 spell levels, assuming he has in fact not been using scrolls thus far) its the final baddie....the Level Boss as it would be in most adventures I think its fine as is...btw the fact that his MMs are only doing 1d4+1 shows he isnt 3rd lvl the DM doesnt have to mention every item the baddie uses, expecially since Oz was in a mist and couldnt see the elf casting
LLMadCow 02-16-05, 06:03 PM	its the final baddie....the Level Boss as it would be in most adventures I think its fine as is...btw the fact that his MMs are only doing 1d4+1 shows he isnt 3rd lvl the DM doesnt have to mention every item the baddie uses, expecially since Oz was in a mist and couldnt see the elf casting The elf was barely alive. One eye almost swollen shut, he tried to get his weakened arm up, and touched Shamira's flank with the tip of his wand... "Ti...tir...Tiris'fffal" A single red globe shot forth and impacted directly with Shamira. The impact blew her off of him and five feet back through the air, where she lay still [Magic missile (1d4+1) = 3]. There's your MM and he is casting Web without a scroll, or so it would appear.
Naerdaloth 02-16-05, 06:12 PM	Well, as it happened Oz won so theres no practical point to this any longer, but the point of being a "Level Boss" means nothing. This isnt a normal campaign, its a COCO quest, where encounters are supposed to be controlled and equal. Theres no point in listing an EL if your going to make exceptions, not even for a "boss." By the same logic Kaigan could say Nox was swallowed by a tarrasque and justfiy it to Jindl as just being a boss.
One_Winged_Angel 02-16-05, 06:15 PM	Well, as it happened Oz won so theres no practical point to this any longer, but the point of being a "Level Boss" means nothing. This isnt a normal campaign, its a COCO quest, where encounters are supposed to be controlled and equal. Theres no point in listing an EL if your going to make exceptions, not even for a "boss." By the same logic Kaigan could say Nox was swallowed by a tarrasque and justfiy it to Jindl as just being a boss. Nah. Kaigan wouldn't do that. MysticMonk might, but definatly not Kaigan ;)
OdinTheReaper 02-16-05, 07:06 PM	Either pitlords hate me or my characters suck. Since I'm going under the second assumption (I have faith in humanity), I've basically decided to do away with Aloran and Lia. Keth is sticking around because I expected him to suck at this level. Anyway, I posted both of these characters, but as usual with most things I post (My psion debate, for example), I'm pretty sure they got ignored. Kailia (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5195011&postcount=136) the Egoist is coming out for a while. I've also decided to give a pyro a shot once again, so now I give you Roy Mustang (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5195030&postcount=137) the flame alchemist. *Sigh* Scan them over for errors. And no stupid comments on Kailia having doing too much physical damage. I will take all such comments as signs of fear and arrange challanges accordingly :) I am introducing another character. He is a transmuter...funny thing i was going to call him Edward Elrich but decided to change it and make the name Vyncent...I might go with the whole fullmetal alchemist bit though..
Pittbull 02-16-05, 07:12 PM	@LL: Congrats!! I always kept my fingers crossed for OZ! :)
Jindl 02-16-05, 08:08 PM	Well, as it happened Oz won so theres no practical point to this any longer, but the point of being a "Level Boss" means nothing. This isnt a normal campaign, its a COCO quest, where encounters are supposed to be controlled and equal. Theres no point in listing an EL if your going to make exceptions, not even for a "boss." By the same logic Kaigan could say Nox was swallowed by a tarrasque and justfiy it to Jindl as just being a boss. eek! Tarrasque!!
LLMadCow 02-16-05, 08:14 PM	@LL: Congrats!! I always kept my fingers crossed for OZ! :) You forgot Shamira. :weep: I do have to say that Oz is considering venerating some of the Chaotic gods as well, since Olidamarra had Oz's :censored: in a vice up until the very end, and even at that, with Shamira, the Laughing Rogue reinforces the attitude of 'You win some, you lose some'
Naerdaloth 02-16-05, 08:18 PM	Does Boost Construct apply to powerstone-conjured Astral Constructs?
SnarkHunter 02-16-05, 08:28 PM	Does Boost Construct apply to powerstone-conjured Astral Constructs? Nope nope.
Snommelp 02-16-05, 09:49 PM	I've decided to let go of my ECL 11 character concept... for the time being. The ECL 11 league is still a long way away. Instead, I'm going to start planning an ECL 5 gladiator. Hopefully the idea will work, although it's so out there that I might not be able to do it justice. I hope Sindorin will forgive me if I totally mangle this concept...
Sindorin 02-16-05, 09:53 PM	Oh No What Have I Done
Snommelp 02-16-05, 09:56 PM	Oh No What Have I Done You did this character concept before me... although looking at the monster, I don't know how you did it... ECL 5, CR 1? I might have to scrap the idea before I even begin!
Sindorin 02-16-05, 09:59 PM	CR 1? I don't know how to calculate those, heh...
Sindorin 02-16-05, 10:10 PM	The funny thing about that is that I was talking to Odin earlier today, he was thinking about doing one too...
Snommelp 02-16-05, 10:15 PM	Really? That would be rather interesting to see... especially if the two wound up fighting each other.
Sindorin 02-16-05, 10:22 PM	Oh jeez, the fight would take so long, lol...
One_Winged_Angel 02-16-05, 11:12 PM	Oh jeez, the fight would take so long, lol... Kinda a re-mix of Keth's second fight. I think Cat was rather annoyed at me... BTW, any errors on my character sheets, or can I assume that I have finally become a good character builder?
Arstimis 02-16-05, 11:12 PM	Well, since i retired Britknee and En Sidious Deth, I've come out with 2 new characters. Kara Cadone (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5464157) and Arthemus Dak'kon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5464165)
Huan 02-16-05, 11:15 PM	@Arstimis Sorry, but Kara is invalid. You cannot apply the Phrenic Template to a creature that is already psionic (like the Maenad).
Arstimis 02-16-05, 11:32 PM	@Arstimis Sorry, but Kara is invalid. You cannot apply the Phrenic Template to a creature that is already psionic (like the Maenad). Ahh, dang, didnt see that. I am fixing Kara now, She will be human. All she'll really lose is a couple abilities she probably wouldnt have used Edit: Kara (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5464157) should be good now And thank you for catching that Huan
Snommelp 02-16-05, 11:41 PM	Oh jeez, the fight would take so long, lol... Depends on how we build them... although there's only so much you can do with that race. You know what? Forget logic. I'm doing it. At the worst, it will be a fun character, at the best I might just annihilate my opponents.
One_Winged_Angel 02-17-05, 12:38 AM	So, assuming my characters all check out, I have a question. In regards to the Cognizance Crystals, do those count as 1/3 PP as well?
OdinTheReaper 02-17-05, 12:41 AM	Question: Is spell focus/greater spell focus supposed to be for saves against another school of magic? If not then what does it do...im sorry i am lost, confused, tired, have a headache, had am test today, and have to work in the morning so i am soooooooooooooo lost right now. Im trying to get my character ready by 9 tommorrow. @Snomm and Sindorin: That would be a very interesting, fun, and hilarious fight.
Snommelp 02-17-05, 12:47 AM	Question: Is spell focus/greater spell focus supposed to be for saves against another school of magic? If not then what does it do...im sorry i am lost, confused, tired, have a headache, had am test today, and have to work in the morning so i am soooooooooooooo lost right now. Im trying to get my character ready by 9 tommorrow. The DCs of the saves of your own spells in that school increase, making it harder for your oppponent to make the save. @Snomm and Sindorin: That would be a very interesting, fun, and hilarious fight. Yes it would. I've already started making mine, although I'm not going to post it yet. As soon as yours is done, we should have them challenge each other.
One_Winged_Angel 02-17-05, 12:53 AM	So, assuming my characters all check out, I have a question. In regards to the Cognizance Crystals, do those count as 1/3 PP as well? Normally, I don't quote myself, but most of the time when I post last on a page it gets overlooked.
OdinTheReaper 02-17-05, 12:57 AM	@Snomm: Yes when we get them going we can do a challenge if you like...sounds good to me... I figured it was for saves that go against your opponent One more thing...@anyone: What would you reccommend for two feats? Spell Focus and greater spell focus...or spell focus and empower spell?
Land Outcast 02-17-05, 01:09 AM	Certainly spell focus and empower spell. See it this way: If the target succeeds a ref save, he still takes 0.75 of the intended damage. The other way is just increasing by 1(admit, sometimes precious 1) the DC
cellardweller 02-17-05, 01:44 AM	Normally, I don't quote myself, but most of the time when I post last on a page it gets overlooked. Yes, all resources need to be divided by 3.
Snommelp 02-17-05, 01:54 AM	So there are a couple of ghosts floating around CoCo, right? T'Var made one, and Jindl has a character that will become one eventually. Ghosts can manipulate ethereal items, so I believe it is safe to assume that an ethereal character could hit a ghost. If this is the case, then I find myself a bit confused (or at least more than usual). Suppose that a monk uses her Empty Body technique to go ethereal so that she might strike the ghost. Would this use of the ability start the clock for the ten round rule? According to the wording of the rule, the answer seems to be yes.
spasheridan 02-17-05, 02:58 AM	One more thing...@anyone: What would you reccommend for two feats? Spell Focus and greater spell focus...or spell focus and empower spell? Tough call. Since this is a 1v1 kind of a fight though, I think the key is going to be the save DC. Sure, empower spell will boost the effect of spells but the increase in the spells level and the restriction on the # of spell levels you can throw in a single encounter is going to bite you here. Go with the focus / greater focus and make each spell level better.
spasheridan 02-17-05, 03:07 AM	Yes, all resources need to be divided by 3. Bit of a smack in the head to the psychic types. correct me if I'm wrong, but the rules are that if you an item that has X/day uses then you can use it only x/3 times. Cog Crystals store PP, and can be refilled and used as many times a day as you want. Therefore you can drain that cog crystal dry during the match because it has unlimited uses / day. Another way to look at the cog crystal is to compare them to pearls of power. They're essentially the same item. If you can use your pearl of power up during the match you should be able to drain a cog crystal dry in a match. Just my 2 cents
Dalton Onestone 02-17-05, 03:32 AM	I have trouble seeing how Empower does much for an Evocation-happy wizard until about CL 11 (bump some Fireballs and Lightning Bolts up to Level 5 spell slots). Even then the 1/3 rule is painful. On the other hand, Spell Focus only helps with spells that can be saved against, a group that certainly includes Fireball and Lightning Bolt, but not a whole lot else in the Evocation school. Note that if it takes a 50% save probability down to 45%, it's basically making your spell 10% more likely to succeed. There's also Weapon Focus/Ray, if you like your Scorching Rays. I went in another direction with my wizard -- Wild Talent, a psionic feat whose benefit is that I can enter prebuffed with a psionic focus, meaning I get one free Take 15 on a Concentration check, meaning I can gallop into spell range on my horse and still get the spell off with confidence (or cast from a grapple, or whatever). You can also just forget about the spell improvements and go with, say, Dodge.
Evadyn the second 02-17-05, 04:15 AM	I fell kind of stupid asking this, but where are the pairings posted?
Pittbull 02-17-05, 04:58 AM	I fell kind of stupid asking this, but where are the pairings posted? Pairings are posted in the "Characters of Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=359951) "-threat, exactly here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179877&postcount=4) ! :)
Pitlords 02-17-05, 05:48 AM	Pairings will be rolled today (thursday) 9 PM GMT (Western European Time). Because of the boards downtime, there will be no late penalties this week. The two fights that are still open [Solmund (Solmund) vs Klaxon (T'Var): Ayatoshi and Eniolissaryn the Elder (Jindl) vs Skymoon Moonbow (SnarkHunter): Ashenai] will be extended into next week, and reassigned if possible (which I doubt because we have almost 100 gladiators on the lvl 3-4 roster and only pitlords for about 30 fights which might or might not be enough). If you can run a (-n additional) fight you are most welcome. One word to the Quests... please try to keep up with the time frame. It is up to you how you distribute your 3 fights over the 3 weeks but from my own experience it is best to stick to the time frame of 1 fight a week (if you are finished sooner, use the gained time to begin the next fight right away). It is a lot of work to run a Quest on a post to post basis and it costs a lot of time but it is also the Pitlord's responsibility to get the Quest done on time. If the player doesn't post very often, request tactics and run it like an Arena fight. Speaking of Quests, Oz Savage has successfully completed his Quest and has just returned to Gladius. Thanks to MadCow for his kind words but it was also an interesting experience for me. That definately hasn't been my last Quest. Cat Edit: Two other things. If you have a new gladiator please write a PM to the Pitlords account along with the link. It is difficult to search the whole thread for your character *cough*OWA*cough* If you have characters that you won't use anymore, please inform me. It is easier for us to handle the roster without retired PCs *cough*OWA*cough*. If you want to reactivate him in a few months, you can just send me a PM with the link.
Caterane 02-17-05, 06:59 AM	Not wishing to interfere with Oz's pilgrimage, but isn't the wizard a bit extreme? He cast web, without mention of a scroll or wand that I see, which means he has to be wizard level 3. Which, is a minimum 3 class levels. Unless its a level 4 adept? Either way, it would be a CR 3 (PC class level, or NPC class level -1). And CR 3 = EL 3, at least according to this site i use: http://www.thegamehub.com/gm/encounter.asp Not to mention, CR is generally supposed to be applied as a challenge for a group of 4 PCs, not 1. Even though COCO gladiators are a bit tougher, and have more resources, this wizard seems to be as equipped as Uhmentary. And if this is a standard ECL 3 vs ECL 3 duel, its not fair to have 1 already half spent and the other not even applying COCO rules (like 1/3 spell levels, assuming he has in fact not been using scrolls thus far) I am aware of that. LLMadCow reminded me - let me think - about 1 million threehundredseventythousand times of that in hope the wizard will transform into a cloud of illogicality. I will give you the same answer. DungeonMastersGuide, p49 says an EL 2 encounter with 1 opponoment can be CR 2 or 3, or something in between. A'Seras hasn't been CR 3 and cannot be compared to Uhmentarymster. First of all, he used 25 pt buy instead of 36. Then he was not optimized as a gladiator is; for example, I used points in skills that never came to fruitition and he had skill focus bluff and persuasive as feats. His equipment was also very limited: he had a total of 637 gp in equipment. A fresh lvl 3 gladiator starts with 3000 gold, not to mention Oz who already fought twice so Oz wealth was about 4200 gp opposed to 637 gp. Also, A'Seras wasn't even prepared for Oz. All that combined, A'Seras was in no way equal to CR 3. Something in between 2 and 3, and this is perfect according to the table 3-1 on p49. PS: Imagine a heavy warhorse attacking A'Seras instead of a 13 hp dog, with 3 attacks instead of 1, and also giving Oz a better movement than 1 inch per round. @all: It's UH-MEN-TA-RYMSTER. Now altogether: Uhmentarymster. @Jindl: How did you manage to get 'Eniolissaryn' into the heads of the guys??
Jindl 02-17-05, 09:29 AM	@Jindl: How did you manage to get 'Eniolissaryn' into the heads of the guys?? That's why I gave him the nickname, "the Elder". ;) Uhme still isn't the worst name out there. Kaigan has that honor with his "Aeiou Diarrhea" character. Although why vowels cause an intestinal dysfunction, I'll never know.
One_Winged_Angel 02-17-05, 11:34 AM	Yes, all resources need to be divided by 3. Ok. That rule kinda sucks in my mind. Spending that much on a 4 pp Cognizance crystal. I get the feeling we won't see many in the arena. Oh well. Well, I'm thinking of a Metamind to replace Aloran. So does his infinate PP at 10th level also get devided by 3? :D According to my math teacher, that's an undefined term. Lemme see. Hey, Kaigan, Arti, remember Ropes? "Cussing in Math?" ;)
Sindorin 02-17-05, 12:44 PM	That's why I gave him the nickname, "the Elder". ;) Uhme still isn't the worst name out there. Kaigan has that honor with his "Aeiou Diarrhea" character. Although why vowels cause an intestinal dysfunction, I'll never know. That might be another reason they wouldn't let Va'ria become an Elder, Besides the fact that she is a woman, much younger, better looking, and evil. But people don't really know about the evil part.
spasheridan 02-17-05, 06:57 PM	SO, a question about shield bonuses. Say a PC had shield or forcescreen up, but was attacked by an invisible opponent. Would the shield bonus to AC from shield or forcescreen apply? THanks!
Huan 02-17-05, 07:15 PM	SO, a question about shield bonuses. Say a PC had shield or forcescreen up, but was attacked by an invisible opponent. Would the shield bonus to AC from shield or forcescreen apply? THanks! Like most bonuses that provide that same type (in this case, a Shield bonus to AC), they overlap and do not stack. Therefore, the higher shield bonus of the two sources would be applied. If it was an unaugmented Force Screen, it does not matter since they both provide +4 Shield AC. However, even though Force Screen can be augmented, Shield does provide protection against the ever-popular Magic Missile. (so who knows? You may find a time where you have both up) But, to answer your question, yes, your shield bonus (from either source, whicher is higher) applies. You are only denied your Dexterity bonus to AC from an attack by an Invisible foe (barring no special ability).
OdinTheReaper 02-17-05, 09:33 PM	Since i have been gone all day i would like to thank anyone who gave thier input on my feat question.....thats all i have to say....
Dalton Onestone 02-18-05, 01:04 PM	Rules question: My opponent, who has a penchant for inappropriate touching, wants to grapple me. He doesn't have the Improved Grapple feat. So he starts by provoking an AoO. If the AoO succeeds, the grapple fails. What about my mount and my familiar? Do they get AoOs too? Do their successful AoOs also start a grapple? And is my standard warhorse smart enough to take its AoO?
spasheridan 02-18-05, 01:42 PM	1) Any creature attacking another creature will always take an AoO unless the target is on fire (like smacking a mage with fireshield). THey are attacking, aren't they? 2) I'm a bit fuzzy on the exact wording, but I believe starting a grapple only allows the target of the grapple to try an AoO. There is some movement into squares that may provoke another AoO after a sucsesful grapple though.. I'm not sure. Pull up that SRD!
Dalton Onestone 02-18-05, 01:45 PM	I looked in the SRD before posting. The wording seems somewhat ambiguous. However, upon reflection, the bolded part below biases me toward an answer of "No". Attack of Opportunity. You provoke an attack of opportunity from the target you are trying to grapple. If the attack of opportunity deals damage, the grapple attempt fails.
SnarkHunter 02-18-05, 02:09 PM	Of course moving into the targets space would provoke an AoO, it just wouldn't end the grapple.
Caterane 02-19-05, 09:12 AM	@Ayatoshi: I just saw that you posted a vampire. IMO that's completely pointless at this time. Asides from the fact that a vampire must have at least 5 HD, it costs 36 credits (you have 6°). It is also a long long way up to Level 13 (which we won't reach this year). Better focus on a build that sees the arena within the next weeks. Speaking of credits... from now on there won't be any negative credit balances anymore. As soon as Sindorin and Mystic Monk have payed their debts, we will only have positive credit accounts, or no credits. If you want to add a build, you need to wait until you have enough credits to buy it. I never liked the possibility of making debts anyway.
Snommelp 02-19-05, 10:36 PM	Quick question: is an ECL 5 character's starting gold 9000 (like Derthark Thunderbeard) or 9500 (like Laph Jeirehneen)?
Dalton Onestone 02-19-05, 10:51 PM	Does a MW Bit and Bridle (and that is the correct spelling of the respective words, guys -- Brit and Bridle might suggest kinky sex in the United Kingdom, and I'm not sure at all what a Briddle might be) give a +2 just to Ride? How about Handle Animal when you're mounted? What about HA on that mount when you're dismounted?
Dalton Onestone 02-20-05, 12:09 AM	OK. Here's a biggie. There are differing opinions as to the effect of Pearls of Power. One theory -- and I'm pretty sure it is/was held by a bunch of people other than me -- is that they get added in with other spell levels, affecting the total number of spell levels per day that you can cast. Cat, however, vigorously disagrees, and he should know. What's the story on this?
LLMadCow 02-20-05, 01:56 AM	OK. Here's a biggie. There are differing opinions as to the effect of Pearls of Power. One theory -- and I'm pretty sure it is/was held by a bunch of people other than me -- is that they get added in with other spell levels, affecting the total number of spell levels per day that you can cast. Cat, however, vigorously disagrees, and he should know. What's the story on this? As per the rules set for the arena, a Pearl of Power is a magical item and can be used a number of times per day equal to 1/3 of it's total, rounded up. So, 1/3 of 1 per day = 1, and thus adds 1 spell per day.
Dalton Onestone 02-20-05, 02:41 AM	As per the rules set for the arena, a Pearl of Power is a magical item and can be used a number of times per day equal to 1/3 of it's total, rounded up. So, 1/3 of 1 per day = 1, and thus adds 1 spell per day. And that 1 spell/pearl does NOT count against your limit of spell levels/day, right?
Pitlords 02-20-05, 04:11 AM	OK. Here's a biggie. There are differing opinions as to the effect of Pearls of Power. One theory -- and I'm pretty sure it is/was held by a bunch of people other than me -- is that they get added in with other spell levels, affecting the total number of spell levels per day that you can cast. Cat, however, vigorously disagrees, and he should know. What's the story on this? A pearl of power has nothing to do with your spell-level total. You have 11 spell-level of which you can cast 4 per arena rules. Of these 4 you can call back two (one for each pearl). This is a standard action and is considered using a magic item. This is very different from what you suggested (extra spell-levels). Since you have 2 pearls you can use each 1/d, rounded up, so you can use them both. @Snommelp: 9500 Gold and 10500 XP. I also changed your email to PM.
Megrim_Lord 02-20-05, 09:59 AM	I just came up with an interesting thought, and I have no way of knowing if this was addressed before, but unless I'm mistaken the DMG has rules and a table for various firearms, since it's core, does that mean it can be used in a character here?
LLMadCow 02-20-05, 11:56 AM	I just came up with an interesting thought, and I have no way of knowing if this was addressed before, but unless I'm mistaken the DMG has rules and a table for various firearms, since it's core, does that mean it can be used in a character here? I brought that up about two years ago and the answer was no. I imagine the answer is still no. As an elder I would vote against it, but as a player, it does sound like fun. :devil: Edit: The SRD 3.5 also has rules for making characters with Divine Rank, but this is frowned upon, if not a fun and exciting idea.
Sindorin 02-20-05, 12:16 PM	I imagine that the ruling was so because the firearms stuff is not mentioned in the SRD... right?
Megrim_Lord 02-20-05, 01:35 PM	I imagine that the ruling was so because the firearms stuff is not mentioned in the SRD... right? niether are MM exclusive races like Githyanki and Githzerai, but they're allowed, at any rate I was just wondering because it seemed like an interesting prospect
OdinTheReaper 02-20-05, 01:59 PM	That is very interesting :plotting: ....i would have done it but i thought it had been "outlawed" in the CoCo. Well see though.
KerlanRayne 02-20-05, 04:13 PM	The firearms and asian weapons in the DMG are optional or variant rules which is why they are not allowed. KerlanRayne
xanadu 02-20-05, 06:08 PM	The firearms and asian weapons in the DMG are optional or variant rules which is why they are not allowed. KerlanRayne Well, there goes my flamerthrower idea :embarrass
Dalton Onestone 02-20-05, 07:01 PM	Does a MW Bit and Bridle (and that is the correct spelling of the respective words, guys -- Brit and Bridle might suggest kinky sex in the United Kingdom, and I'm not sure at all what a Briddle might be) give a +2 just to Ride? How about Handle Animal when you're mounted? What about HA on that mount when you're dismounted? Repeating the questions.
One_Winged_Angel 02-20-05, 07:17 PM	@Ayatoshi: Hey, Vamp was my idea... Well, I'm back from exile. I'll be returning to active pitlording and my latest characters will be active as well. So, anyway, just some general announcements. I'd still like to debate that 1/3 of a cognizance crystal or pearl of power seems stupid, especially the crystal. For the crystal, you spend a great amount for 1 more PP per day until you get to 5 pp, costing 9k in gold. It's going to make these items never appear since its so much more worth it to increase a stat and get one that way. For 4000 you get the same basic amount. With pearls of power, its a bit different, but not so much. The only difference is they have to pay more for higher level spells. Still, the fact remains that they are paying for 2 spells and only getting one.
LLMadCow 02-20-05, 07:38 PM	The firearms and asian weapons in the DMG are optional or variant rules which is why they are not allowed. KerlanRayne I just want to point out that quite a few of the Asian weapons are simply stylistic variants on existing Western weapons. For example, a Katana is simply a variant Bastard sword. So, if you wanted to play a Samurai, it would be best to have TWF, WP: Bastard Sword, and wield a Bastard Sword and Short Sword. So, if you wanted to use such Asian weapons, just be sure to list what they equate to. LL
Dalton Onestone 02-20-05, 07:48 PM	Addressing my own consistently ignored mounts question, I'd like to point out that Complete Adventurer has a magical collar that gives a +5 on HA checks. So saying there's a MW collar that gives a +2 for checks on that animal would not be the greatest of stretches.
Sindorin 02-20-05, 08:41 PM	Vampire was actually Kazzaroth Pantheon's idea a while back in the old days of the Coliseum... he had wanted to build up enough credits for one, but I think other stuff has since then gotten in his way...
One_Winged_Angel 02-20-05, 08:51 PM	Vampire was actually Kazzaroth Pantheon's idea a while back in the old days of the Coliseum... he had wanted to build up enough credits for one, but I think other stuff has since then gotten in his way... Yah. It was actually an idea we both shared. Originally, I had given in and decided to let him have it. But since he left...
Sindorin 02-20-05, 09:00 PM	Yah. It was actually an idea we both shared. Originally, I had given in and decided to let him have it. But since he left... hehe, fair enough :)
xanadu 02-20-05, 09:06 PM	Addressing my own consistently ignored mounts question, I'd like to point out that Complete Adventurer has a magical collar that gives a +5 on HA checks. So saying there's a MW collar that gives a +2 for checks on that animal would not be the greatest of stretches. Dalton, I ask a similar question before. If you are mounted, you get the +2 bonus on handle checks from the bit and briddle. A saddle just provides a bonus for staying mounted and also makes ride checks [different from handle animal checks] easier. I'm not sure if you are dismounted. I'd imagine if you are away from your mount, you cannot use the bit and briddle as you dont have access to it. I'm not sure here though. Might want to check out the rules of the game articles - the past 4 have dealt with mounted combat.
Dalton Onestone 02-20-05, 09:13 PM	OK. Now I'm even more confused. Does it take a MW saddle to get a +2 on ride checks? So the MW Bit and Bridle does what -- helps only with HA checks? Or does the MW Bit & Bridle help with both? I haven't found anything relevant in the four-part Rules of the Game on mounts. The fifth and final part is promised for next week.
Jindl 02-20-05, 09:21 PM	Re: MW Handle Animal and Ride tools- We grant the player a lot of freedom in determining whether the tool grants a bonus to handle animal or ride. Either way the tool costs 50 gp + the cost of the normal item. And each tool can only grant a bonus to 1 skill (not both skills). Personally, I like the mw whistle (handle animal) and the mw bit and bridle (ride).
Dalton Onestone 02-20-05, 09:23 PM	Re: MW Handle Animal and Ride tools- We grant the player a lot of freedom in determining whether the tool grants a bonus to handle animal or ride. Either way the tool costs 50 gp + the cost of the normal item. And each tool can only grant a bonus to 1 skill (not both skills). Personally, I like the mw whistle (handle animal) and the mw bit and bridle (ride). OK. That makes sense. Thanks.
Dalton Onestone 02-21-05, 01:12 AM	How absolute is Magic/Psi transparency? Does Dispel Magic dispel psionic effects?
OdinTheReaper 02-21-05, 01:13 AM	question: Can you hold a two handed weapon and a potion at the same time. Also manifesting a mindblade is a move action, so you cannot move in the same round right?
Dalton Onestone 02-21-05, 01:30 AM	You can hold a two handed weapon in one hand, except when actually attacking. The only downside I know of to this is that you can't use for AoOs.
Snommelp 02-21-05, 01:57 AM	How absolute is Magic/Psi transparency? Does Dispel Magic dispel psionic effects? As far as I know, it's complete transparency. Dispel Magic dispels psionics, Detect Magic works for psionics, etc. Someone else might come and prove me wrong, though. I've been proven wrong more often than normal recently. My turn for a question. How does the 1/3 rule work with magic items and abilities that work X number of times per week? Examples: a monk's Quivering Palm attack can be used once per week. A Bag of Tricks can be used ten times per week. A level 12 paladin can create a Remove Disease effect three times per week.
SnarkHunter 02-21-05, 02:06 AM	As far as I know, it's complete transparency. Dispel Magic dispels psionics, Detect Magic works for psionics, etc. Someone else might come and prove me wrong, though. I've been proven wrong more often than normal recently. Dispel magic can also get rid of spell like abilities which is what psionics are anywho... My turn for a question. How does the 1/3 rule work with magic items and abilities that work X number of times per week? Examples: a monk's Quivering Palm attack can be used once per week. A Bag of Tricks can be used ten times per week. A level 12 paladin can create a Remove Disease effect three times per week. I'd imagine one would calculate those as if they were all being used in one day.
Caterane 02-21-05, 05:22 AM	Provided the Buddha keeps going we should see ECL 5 in about 2-3 weeks. I'd finally like to go on a Quest myself with Archangel Ixenthor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179942). Is there anyone willing to run this quest? :dancin:
Sindorin 02-21-05, 08:45 AM	I would do it, but I currently have NO WAY of contemplating how to make maps and post them effectively. Add that and I would feel really guilty if I somehow killed your character (and his low hps!).
Huan 02-21-05, 09:55 AM	Provided the Buddha keeps going we should see ECL 5 in about 2-3 weeks. I'd finally like to go on a Quest myself with Archangel Ixenthor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179942). Is there anyone willing to run this quest? :dancin: I'll run it, if you'll have me (I wrote a lot for Ixenthor in the past, I would like to write for him again). Besides, I've been wanting to give Questlording a try. If not Cat, then I am willing to Questlord for anyone.
Sindorin 02-21-05, 12:47 PM	It's time once again for Sindorin's Silly Questions!!! Let's say that you charge your opponent with a lance. You have both the Spirited Charge feat, and Cleave feat. You hit, doing lots and lots of damage. The intended target is completely obliterated by your onslaught. Here is my question: Does Cleave activate, giving you an attack against the opponent's mount? A second question: Would the extra damage from Spirited Charge activate? A third question: Would the extra damage from the fact that you are charging with a lance activate? This does not necessarily pertain to any of my gladiators... no... hehe :) It's more of a campaigning issue, if any. ;)
One_Winged_Angel 02-21-05, 12:54 PM	It's time once again for Sindorin's Silly Questions!!! Let's say that you charge your opponent with a lance. You have both the Spirited Charge feat, and Cleave feat. You hit, doing lots and lots of damage. The intended target is completely obliterated by your onslaught. Here is my question: Does Cleave activate, giving you an attack against the opponent's mount? A second question: Would the extra damage from Spirited Charge activate? A third question: Would the extra damage from the fact that you are charging with a lance activate? This does not necessarily pertain to any of my gladiators... no... hehe :) It's more of a campaigning issue, if any. ;) Answers: 1) Normally, I would say yes, however, since the specification of charge says you only get one attack, I am thinking that it really means only one attack. 2) Somehow, I don't think that it would. 3) Again, I doubt it.
xanadu 02-21-05, 01:08 PM	I also have a question. Where exactly can gladitors hide? Is the terrain conducive to whatever you want to do (i.e. hide, meld to stone, entangle, etc) everywhere?
Caterane 02-21-05, 01:45 PM	@Sindorin: No. Cleave is an extra attack albeit at the same bab penalty as the attack that triggered it. @Xanadu: I wish I could answer this question but our Elders are voting on this for weeks. They're probably taking their title too litteraly :D
Sindorin 02-21-05, 02:17 PM	You don't get any bonuses to the extra attack, but you do get the extra attack, correct? Does the type of damage matter as well? I have been wondering whether a piercing weapon such as a lance that you thrust into one enemy would actually cleave into something else... I'm thinking too logically. Must stop :D
T'Var 02-21-05, 06:12 PM	You don't get any bonuses to the extra attack, but you do get the extra attack, correct? Does the type of damage matter as well? I have been wondering whether a piercing weapon such as a lance that you thrust into one enemy would actually cleave into something else... I'm thinking too logically. Must stop :D all the bonuses that were givin in the attack that triggered the cleave you get i.e. -3 to hit +3 dmg from a power attack would be givin to the cleave attack or +2 from charging
Jindl 02-21-05, 07:39 PM	It's time once again for Sindorin's Silly Questions!!! Let's say that you charge your opponent with a lance. You have both the Spirited Charge feat, and Cleave feat. You hit, doing lots and lots of damage. The intended target is completely obliterated by your onslaught. Here is my question: Does Cleave activate, giving you an attack against the opponent's mount? A second question: Would the extra damage from Spirited Charge activate? A third question: Would the extra damage from the fact that you are charging with a lance activate? This does not necessarily pertain to any of my gladiators... no... hehe :) It's more of a campaigning issue, if any. ;) Actually, per the RAW (that's Rules As Written) the answer is yes, Cleave activates, yes Spirited charge remains active, and yes the lance damage is treated as charging. A cleave attack is identical in every way (except for 1 time bonuses like true strike) to the original attack. It's pretty similar to the way Pounce works (and remember there is a pisonic power called Lion's Pounce ... for all those Pyswar Charging builds.)
Sindorin 02-21-05, 11:59 PM	Actually, per the RAW (that's Rules As Written) the answer is yes, Cleave activates, yes Spirited charge remains active, and yes the lance damage is treated as charging. A cleave attack is identical in every way (except for 1 time bonuses like true strike) to the original attack. It's pretty similar to the way Pounce works (and remember there is a pisonic power called Lion's Pounce ... for all those Pyswar Charging builds.) AWESOME~!*~ That really tempts me to add Cleave to Ceres' arsenal of feats. Since mounts are larger and typically have a lower AC, attacking them first could almost be the next step to gaining a free attack... hmm... I actually came up with a good idea for once (unless someone has used it already, but I have yet to see anyone use Cleave in the arena...).
Jindl 02-22-05, 12:19 AM	@Sin - It's a great way to attack people who use mounts, but watch out for those pc's with mounted combat feat and high ride checks (as they'll just negate the hit). It's also a pretty good way to get rid of mirror images (although great cleave is the ultimate destroyer of mirror images).
Sindorin 02-22-05, 12:23 AM	Yeah, I had considered that. It's just that the majority of gladiators have mounts now, lots of them have them for convenience of movement/extra pair of eyes. Some of them don't have mounted combat feat... Wait, wouldn't Cleave still activate after you hit before the ride check is made?
Jindl 02-22-05, 12:24 AM	Wait, wouldn't Cleave still activate after you hit before the ride check is made? Think that through...
Sindorin 02-22-05, 12:31 AM	Well, I guess I am being too analytical about it. If the hit to the horse is negated due to mounted combat, I thought Cleave might still activate to give an attack at an adjacent opponent as the blade kept going. Made sense to me, at least...
Snommelp 02-22-05, 12:37 AM	Might want to read that feat again, Sin...
Sindorin 02-22-05, 12:44 AM	"If you deal enough damage to make it drop" right right. I am going to bed. It's been a long day :rolleyes:
Dalton Onestone 02-22-05, 03:04 AM	Does wearing a buckler count as still having that hand free from the standpoint of: Spellcasting? The Deflect Arrows feat? I say yes and yes, although the buckler does increase the ASF chance.
cellardweller 02-22-05, 03:13 AM	I concur.
Jindl 02-22-05, 09:53 AM	Does wearing a buckler count as still having that hand free from the standpoint of: Spellcasting? The Deflect Arrows feat? I say yes and yes, although the buckler does increase the ASF chance. Yes and Yes. Note: You can also complete somatic components with your shield hand when using a light shield. But I don't think you can deflect arrows with your shield hand when using a light shield.
Arstimis 02-22-05, 11:38 AM	blah blah bla
Pitlords 02-22-05, 04:03 PM	@ALL: I cannot do the pairings tomorow (wednesday) because it's my birthday and my friends would 'rip me a new one' (@T'Var: :nonono: ) if I would sit down and do pairings. I would have informed you earlier but I thought Ash would do them. Unfortunately I just got the message that he is ill and can't do them either. That means Pairings are postponed until thursday. However, not 9 PM GMT but 11 AM GMT. The deadline is postponed accordingly. Cat
Sindorin 02-22-05, 04:06 PM	Have Jindl do them or something. The show must go on... wait, this isn't the theater, it is the arena... :( Oh well, it's just one day. It also gives the people who have fights posted late more time to edit their stuff.
T'Var 02-22-05, 04:16 PM	@ALL: I cannot do the pairings tomorow (wednesday) because it's my birthday and my friends would 'rip me a new one' (@T'Var: :nonono: ) if I would sit down and do pairings. Cat wha....?
KerlanRayne 02-22-05, 04:31 PM	wha....?I believe he is refering to this: careful boy, I havent unloaded in quite a while and one more comment about 'newer' and i'll rip you a new oneKerlanRayne
Iced 02-22-05, 04:41 PM	how do you deal with HP for the characters in here? Is it max per level, or do you use an online roller or max for first and then roll for after? Someone help i'm confused...:p And BAB is raw right? And if I take two levels of barbarian and one of fighter, then I have a fort base save of +5 right? Are multiclassing penalties applicable for collesium characters? Do I get the standard gold for third level characters from the DMs guide?
T'Var 02-22-05, 04:44 PM	I believe he is refering to this: KerlanRayne lol yes. I was just being sarcastic
T'Var 02-22-05, 04:46 PM	how do you deal with HP for the characters in here? Is it max per level, or do you use an online roller or max for first and then roll for after? Someone help i'm confused...:p And BAB is raw right? And if I take two levels of barbarian and one of fighter, then I have a fort base save of +5 right? Are multiclassing penalties applicable for collesium characters? Do I get the standard gold for third level characters from the DMs guide? hd max at first then average after that i.e. a 2nd fighter would get 10 + 5.5 +con barbarian would get 12 + 6.5 + con ect ect BAB as per normal rules Yes base saves stack penalties do count yes
Pitlords 02-22-05, 04:54 PM	@Iced: Here's a link to the Quickstart Guide (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179917). It will explain the basics to you. @all: 11 AM is not possible. Make that 2 PM GMT (14:00 GMT).
Pittbull 02-22-05, 06:03 PM	It's now wednesday in Germany, that means: HAPPY BIRTHDAY CAT!!! I wish you all the best!!!
Dalton Onestone 02-22-05, 06:22 PM	How old is he????? Anyhow -- HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!! And thanks for making this place possible!!!
Snommelp 02-22-05, 06:24 PM	Glücklicher Geburtstag! Können Sie Ihre Würfel nie rollen schlecht. ...I hope that last part translated correctly... I didn't know the words, had to use a website instead.
Huan 02-22-05, 06:35 PM	why the heck this duplicated I have no idea...
Huan 02-22-05, 06:35 PM	Happy Birthday, Arena Bard! (something I am trying to get second place in, heh heh)
OdinTheReaper 02-22-05, 07:20 PM	Happy Birthday Cat!
Dalton Onestone 02-22-05, 07:41 PM	Glücklicher Geburtstag! Können Sie Ihre Würfel nie rollen schlecht. ...I hope that last part translated correctly... I didn't know the words, had to use a website instead. There are multiple problems with that. 1. "Können" is both the wrong tense and the wrong verb, although embarrassingly I can't think of the right one. Maybe "Lasse" (subjunctive of the verb that translates as "to let") would do, but I suspect there's something better yet. "Es sollen", perhaps? 2. "Sie Ihre" seems redundant. 3. Things are more familiar these days anyway; "deine" would be more natural. 4. Word order: "schlecht rollen" would be better. 5. Some of our characters are likely to fight some of his, and I'm not sure that I wouldn't wish a few bad die rolls on him under certain circumstance. :D :D The above list is probably neither comprehensive nor entirely accurate, but that's typical for posts in this forum ... :D
Megrim_Lord 02-22-05, 08:24 PM	just checking, but we can have up to two active gladiators right?
T'Var 02-22-05, 08:36 PM	just checking, but we can have up to two active gladiators right? yes two without costing credits
Megrim_Lord 02-22-05, 08:49 PM	once again, just checking, but it says that manifesters can only use 1/3 of their pp in a single fight, so if I have say 15 pp, I can only use 5? hmmm... the phrase "getting the shaft" comes to mind here...
Arstimis 02-22-05, 08:52 PM	once again, just checking, but it says that manifesters can only use 1/3 of their pp in a single fight, so if I have say 15 pp, I can only use 5? hmmm... the phrase "getting the shaft" comes to mind here...That is correct, according the Living Gladius rules
Dalton Onestone 02-22-05, 09:03 PM	once again, just checking, but it says that manifesters can only use 1/3 of their pp in a single fight, so if I have say 15 pp, I can only use 5? hmmm... the phrase "getting the shaft" comes to mind here... According to the roster (which may not include some late-finishing fights), there are four gladiators who've reached the 5-win level. Two are primarily psionic, one is primarily a wizard, and one is primarily a cleric. You have to expend a fair amount of gold to win a fight as a caster/manifester, but in theory you get that back later on by half-price crafting of expensive permanents (of course, that only works if you sit out a few weeks, grumble grumble grumble ...)
SnarkHunter 02-22-05, 09:04 PM	A happy slappy birthday to you Cat. Oh, is the editing deadline extended? I'm not going to have time before Wednesday evening.
Arstimis 02-22-05, 09:05 PM	You have to expend a fair amount of gold to win a fight as a caster/manifester, but in theory you get that back later on by half-price crafting of expensive permanents (of course, that only works if you sit out a few weeks, grumble grumble grumble ...)Or if you even take the crafting feats...
Iced 02-22-05, 09:08 PM	Can you charge with a spiked chain?
Dalton Onestone 02-22-05, 09:19 PM	Or if you even take the crafting feats... Well, that part doesn't bother me. How many Fighter feats is it worth just to have the ability to cast Hold Person?
Naerdaloth 02-22-05, 09:28 PM	Can you charge with a spiked chain? Yes, you can make a charge attack with any weapon
Sindorin 02-22-05, 11:26 PM	Yes, you can make a charge attack with any weapon What? You can charge with a longbow? :P ;)
Snommelp 02-22-05, 11:53 PM	What? You can charge with a longbow? :P ;) Of course you can! You just look ridiculous doing it, and take a penalty for using an improvised weapon, and run the risk of breaking your bow, &c.
Sindorin 02-23-05, 12:13 AM	Of course you can! You just look ridiculous doing it, and take a penalty for using an improvised weapon, and run the risk of breaking your bow, &c. Well, I guess if you run out of arrows, what is the point of having that bow?
Snommelp 02-23-05, 12:18 AM	And the Nimbus fixes it for free anyways. Might as well use it as a quarterstaff, if it's all you've got.
Sindorin 02-23-05, 12:26 AM	Do we know what the climate in Gladius is like? Might need it for firewood.
Pittbull 02-23-05, 03:13 AM	@Iced: Hello to you! i got a quick view over your character and found one point: Wolf Berserker: +4 Bonus on trip attacks and checks to avoid being tripped. (3rd) This isn't a core-feat, so you can't take it. You might consider: Knock-Down [General] Prerequisites Base attack bonus +2, Improved Trip, Str 15. Benefit Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee, you make a trip attack as a free action against the same target. Hope, it helps.
Sindorin 02-23-05, 09:46 AM	@Iced: Hello to you! i got a quick view over your character and found one point: Nice Fort save on that guy...
Sindorin 02-23-05, 09:48 AM	A happy slappy birthday to you Cat. Oh, is the editing deadline extended? I'm not going to have time before Wednesday evening. Deadline has been extended to 2PM GMT Thursday. Hopefully Ceres vs. Evram will be posted by then... :weep:
Dalton Onestone 02-23-05, 01:59 PM	Nice Fort save on that guy... Yep. Not the easiest to CdG.
Beldin 02-23-05, 03:06 PM	With a low will save you can put him to sleep again easily. ;)
Dalton Onestone 02-23-05, 03:23 PM	With a low will save you can put him to sleep again easily. ;) That point did not escape me! He might, however, be pretty grumpy in the interim when he is awakened ...
xanadu 02-23-05, 04:23 PM	I have a question about the FAQ regarding mounts and potential allies. As much as I like my heavy warhorse, eventually he'll need to be upgraded at some point. On this page (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5150684) lots of potential allies are listed. Let's say I'd like a purple worm. By +26 HA, does that meen my check need to be 26 or the number of ranks...either way I guess I better start investing :)? When I get my 26, do I just go to the Gladius Walmart and buy my pet purple worm?
Jindl 02-23-05, 04:29 PM	I have a question about the FAQ regarding mounts and potential allies. As much as I like my heavy warhorse, eventually he'll need to be upgraded at some point. On this page (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5150684) lots of potential allies are listed. Let's say I'd like a purple worm. By +26 HA, does that meen my check need to be 26 or the number of ranks...either way I guess I better start investing :)? When I get my 26, do I just go to the Gladius Walmart and buy my pet purple worm? Check the Living Gladius FAQ (you'll find your answers there).
xanadu 02-23-05, 05:18 PM	Check the Living Gladius FAQ (you'll find your answers there). Ok, thanks I did. Though I'm a little bummed I have to wait until 19th level before I get my purple worm...I was kind of hoping to have one by 6th level or something :plotting:
Dalton Onestone 02-23-05, 05:39 PM	Maybe this is a good time to mention my suggestion for dealing with the win init/win bout problem: The gladiator who moves first gets only a standard action in the first round. The init winner can choose whether to move first (taking only a standard action) or second (taking the first full round of the bout).
One_Winged_Angel 02-23-05, 10:05 PM	Maybe this is a good time to mention my suggestion for dealing with the win init/win bout problem: The gladiator who moves first gets only a standard action in the first round. The init winner can choose whether to move first (taking only a standard action) or second (taking the first full round of the bout). Man, oh man. We've been through this before, I remember. Eventually, we ended up needing to reshape the arena. The proposal you have is not without problems. Main issue being we don't want to nerf the stealth build who requires getting to some cover to hide. Also, most people either take a move or a standard action. And in the long run, it's not going to help after about 7th level. Now, on to a question I'd like to put forth. I was thinking about ways that we could expand Gladius a bit. I wondered for a while, and finally had an idea. What about expanding to include prestige classes, races, and templates found on the Official web site? I like a lot of them. For anyone who's curious, the articles I'm referring to are (for the most part) retired. Far Corners of the World, the Mind's Eye, and Random Encounters all have some very interesting topics for play. Anyway, just a thought. I figured I'd actually make a suggestion rather than a complaint. EDIT: Almost forgot: 1) Can we get a formula for ECL character gold/XP values since they differ from the chart in the DMG 2) What is the rule for adding an aquired template to characters? I mean, if I have a 4th level character and want to turn him into a werewolf, would I use credits for the ECL or for the levels added?
Naerdaloth 02-23-05, 10:11 PM	For some reason, initiative doesnt seem like such a big deal to me. The gladiators start 200' across, going first usually wont allow you act first. Just lets you maneuver around, in fact it might disadvantageous to move closer first because then your opponent could move and potentially attack you first, or whatever. It might allow a free buff or something, but thats the luck of the draw and not a HUGE deal. In a regular campaign initiative might be more important because you dont have the privelage of being so far apart, and only one target to worry about
Sindorin 02-23-05, 10:24 PM	I once argued that if you ready an action and then don't do ANYTHING for 16 hours (or whatever the prebuff time), you should be allowed to prebuff the readied action. I was later pretty much convinced that it wouldn't work because of the mechanics - you have to re-ready every round, and such. Still, being treated as starting the fight with a readied action would make a little headway to fixing the problem of the half-round-kill without encroaching horribly on Core rules.
Dalton Onestone 02-23-05, 10:26 PM	As matters now stand, a druid or ranger who wins init can cast Entangle on the opponent on Round 1. A wizard or sorcerer who wins init can cast a Fireball on their opponent on Round 1. We just saw that a half-dragon mounted on a pegasus can hit the opponent with a breath weapon on Round 1. I suspect that some medium-range spells can also be cast on Round 1 after a hard ride, at least at certain not-too-high levels. It's a real issue.
One_Winged_Angel 02-23-05, 10:28 PM	As matters now stand, a druid or ranger who wins init can cast Entangle on the opponent on Round 1. A wizard or sorcerer who wins init can cast a Fireball on their opponent on Round 1. We just saw that a half-dragon mounted on a pegasus can hit the opponent with a breath weapon on Round 1. I suspect that some medium-range spells can also be cast on Round 1 after a hard ride, at least at certain not-too-high levels. It's a real issue. The problem is, I hate penalizing people because someone had a brilliant idea. Maybe that's just me though. Now, about my ideas and questions...
Sindorin 02-23-05, 10:31 PM	The problem is, I hate penalizing people because someone had a brilliant idea. Maybe that's just me though. Now, about my ideas and questions... Ah, at least someone appreciates a little ingenuity :cool:
Jindl 02-23-05, 10:42 PM	2) What is the rule for adding an aquired template to characters? I mean, if I have a 4th level character and want to turn him into a werewolf, would I use credits for the ECL or for the levels added? You must spend 4 credits for every ECL that you add. Of course, then you have to sit out until your new ECL is "unlocked". That's part of the reason why Anna hasn't been more active yet. I'm waiting until some PC's get closer to ECL 8, which is where she will be once the ghost template is added again. I'm actually thinking about having her go on a quest as part of acquiring the template (and given how impressed I was when he ran her fight against the Gorgon, I'm hoping Cat will be interested in running that quest). -Jindl
One_Winged_Angel 02-23-05, 10:54 PM	You must spend 4 credits for every ECL that you add. Of course, then you have to sit out until your new ECL is "unlocked". That's part of the reason why Anna hasn't been more active yet. I'm waiting until some PC's get closer to ECL 8, which is where she will be once the ghost template is added again. I'm actually thinking about having her go on a quest as part of acquiring the template (and given how impressed I was when he ran her fight against the Gorgon, I'm hoping Cat will be interested in running that quest). -Jindl Urm, not too clear. Hey, I know! Mutliple choice! Character A is attempting to aquire template B which will raise him from ECL 4 to ECL 8. Do you pay a) 20 Credits (As if you were raising him from level 3) b) 16 Credis (Paying it -the level) c) Some other number I have no idea what. d) However many creidts Cat has now...
Jindl 02-23-05, 11:02 PM	Urm, not too clear. Hey, I know! Mutliple choice! Character A is attempting to aquire template B which will raise him from ECL 4 to ECL 8. Do you pay a) 20 Credits (As if you were raising him from level 3) b) 16 Credis (Paying it -the level) c) Some other number I have no idea what. d) However many creidts Cat has now... Hrm, from ECL 4 to ECL 8 is +4 ECL, so that would be +4 ECL x 4 credits / ECL <numbers clicking on an abacus> 16 credits. -Jindl
spasheridan 02-23-05, 11:03 PM	Man, oh man. We've been through this before, I remember. Eventually, we ended up needing to reshape the arena. The proposal you have is not without problems. Main issue being we don't want to nerf the stealth build who requires getting to some cover to hide. Also, most people either take a move or a standard action. And in the long run, it's not going to help after about 7th level. Considering how the game goes, yer probably right.. there will be more and more 1 rnd deaths as the levels go up. Now, on to a question I'd like to put forth. I was thinking about ways that we could expand Gladius a bit. I wondered for a while, and finally had an idea. What about expanding to include prestige classes, races, and templates found on the Official web site? I like a lot of them. For anyone who's curious, the articles I'm referring to are (for the most part) retired. Far Corners of the World, the Mind's Eye, and Random Encounters all have some very interesting topics for play. Anyway, just a thought. I figured I'd actually make a suggestion rather than a complaint. All I can say is if you let Minds Eye in, you might as well let Dragon and 3rd party material in. Core means Core....
One_Winged_Angel 02-23-05, 11:07 PM	Considering how the game goes, yer probably right.. there will be more and more 1 rnd deaths as the levels go up. Meh, the debate was about a year ago, by my calculations. It was actually the same reason as now: Prevent archers from one shot kills. My, how little things change... All I can say is if you let Minds Eye in, you might as well let Dragon and 3rd party material in. Core means Core.... Your missing the fact that psionics itself isn't core. The reason we allow it is that it's in the SRD, which is accessable to everyone. @Ayatoshi: Please check the violations thread. It may cause you to contemplate that vampire a bit.
xanadu 02-24-05, 12:15 AM	Your missing the fact that psionics itself isn't core. The reason we allow it is that it's in the SRD, which is accessable to everyone. I wouldnt mind seeing a little more diversity of options either. It does seem like many of the characters are the same: warriors all use vigor and force field if they can, all of the druid fights seem similar, and I'd love to see someone go for a unique style like the Dervish. The problem is, as Jindl alluded to, if we allow the Complete Warrior for Dervish, the we'd have to allow the whole book and someone will make a Hulking Hurler.
spasheridan 02-24-05, 12:16 AM	The problem is, as Jindl alluded to, if we allow the Complete Warrior for Dervish, the we'd have to allow the whole book and someone will make a Hulking Hurler. While I may look like Jindl, I'm actually someone completely differant. :D
xanadu 02-24-05, 02:06 AM	While I may look like Jindl, I'm actually someone completely differant. :D :embarrass Get a different avatar
Pittbull 02-24-05, 03:00 AM	:embarrass Get a different avatar Yes, please, it's so confusing. There are so many nicer ones, but please don't take mine! ;)
Dalton Onestone 02-24-05, 03:44 AM	Not that this is an urgent matter, but what are the LG rules for a Ring of Counterspells? Do you have to predeclare what's cast into it? And does Dispel in a Ring of Counterspells counter everything, or does it just counter Dispel? I say the latter.
Pittbull 02-24-05, 03:51 AM	Not that this is an urgent matter, but what are the LG rules for a Ring of Counterspells? Do you have to predeclare what's cast into it? And does Dispel in a Ring of Counterspells counter everything, or does it just counter Dispel? I say the latter. You're right this one of most important items in higher levles, a so-called must-have! Yes, you have to predeclare what's cast into it and a dispel magic only counters dispel magic, not even greater dispel magic or dispel psionics. :)
One_Winged_Angel 02-24-05, 09:38 AM	I wouldnt mind seeing a little more diversity of options either. It does seem like many of the characters are the same: warriors all use vigor and force field if they can, all of the druid fights seem similar, and I'd love to see someone go for a unique style like the Dervish. The problem is, as Jindl alluded to, if we allow the Complete Warrior for Dervish, the we'd have to allow the whole book and someone will make a Hulking Hurler. Again, missing the fact that not everyone owns a Complete Warrior book. The reason I like the idea of using Far Corners of the World or Random Encounters is that it diversifies and anyone who can get on the board should be able to get on the main site. Still, Hulking Hurlers aren't all their cut out to be. Now invisible blade/master throwers are a different matter... ;)
Zepher 02-24-05, 09:53 AM	Hee hee, Look! I'm OWA! (Even though I chose my avatar before him ;) ) Again, missing the fact that not everyone owns a Complete Warrior book. The reason I like the idea of using Far Corners of the World or Random Encounters is that it diversifies and anyone who can get on the board should be able to get on the main site. Still, Hulking Hurlers aren't all their cut out to be. Now invisible blade/master throwers are a different matter... Using spells and items from the Far Corners of the World I can agree on, but I'd avoid using the monsters/races (for simplicity's sake). Hulking Hurlers and Invisible Blades/Master are both terribly strong, IMO (especially in the right hands, needless to say).
One_Winged_Angel 02-24-05, 09:58 AM	Hee hee, Look! I'm OWA! (Even though I chose my avatar before him ;) ) Meh. I can change. Any idea how you can get an FF7 avatar like Huan? And I hope I don't have to win UnCon. I'm retired from most games cept this. Using spells and items from the Far Corners of the World I can agree on, but I'd avoid using the monsters/races (for simplicity's sake). Hulking Hurlers and Invisible Blades/Master are both terribly strong, IMO (especially in the right hands, needless to say). Spells and items are good to not use, simply because most are irrelevant. Hulking hurlers don't get enough bang for their buck. Since your size has to be really, really big, your likely talking racial hd. Fulfil the prereques, then get the class, your likely rather high lev.
Jindl 02-24-05, 11:06 AM	Re: Expanding to include other rules - Before the Core Arena Tournament (that's the original version of the CoCo) began on the Character Optimization board, there were other arenas. As a matter of fact, our Pitlord's login comes from the Ready 2 Rumble arena (where it was called Lords of the Pit). But the Core Arena was different becuase it only allowed Core rules. And that's why, when all of the other arena's failed, the Core Arena is still going strong almost 2 years later. You see, expanding the rules had a couple of effects on those old arenas. And having looked at the effects, I have several reasons why I am against expanding the rules. First, when the old arenas expanded their rules, the fights became harder to run because not everyone had access to the additional rules. And we all know what a problem a shortage of pitlords can create. Just look at the pitlord shortage that occured after the last expansion. 75% of the pitlords said "no psionics". We even had to do a couple of 2 week pairings just to get all the fights ran. Second, the expanded rules had gone through little or no playtesting, and created builds that were, in a word, broken. The same could be said about the effects that Psionics had on the CoCo (prior to the 1/3rd rule). Evram's energy stun power, the Harvester's boots of temporal acceleration, etc. And psionics was extensively playtested. Imagine what happens when you give blanket approval to use material from the WoTC website. The authors of that material usually do little or no playtesting of their ideas. And you end up with LA+0 savage progression Aasimars, who get both the outsider type and a +2 charisma with no drawbacks (for example). The third reason I am against adding more material has to do with the reason I participate in the CoCo, which is to test builds that I can use in my game. As long as we stay Core, the pc's we play can reasonably be used in any campaign. DM's always have the right to houserule, but usually they don't override the Core rules. And to use your CoCo pc in a RL campaign, you never have to ask your DM if you can use <insert name> splatbook or outside source. This was not the case in the old arenas, where every pc had 5 different PrC's from 4 different sources. Now even though that sort of total expansion is not being suggested here, once you start expanding, it is difficult to draw a line where to stop. I think staying Core is part of who we are, and is part of the reason this game continues to thrive. We already have many great people contributing lots of time to making this place work, and I think that were we to expand the rules, it would all fall apart. -Jindl
Pitlords 02-24-05, 01:51 PM	I wholeheartely agree with Jindl but to all others who wish for more diversity, there is hope, though not the way you think. Unlike the Classic CoCo, Living Gladius offers us nearly unlimited modifications and add-on's to the board rules. Suddenly, being able to Rage 3/d isn't useless anymore and we will finally see straight barbarians. Living Gladius is still in its Kindershoes and we still have a long long way to go before we run out of options, if that will ever be the case. And of course there's the possibility of an SRD expansion by WotC. Neither Psionics nor the Divine Section was part of it but here we have it now. Anyway, I apologize for the lateness of Pairings. I will sit down at once and roll them.
Dalton Onestone 02-24-05, 01:57 PM	Yes, you have to predeclare what's cast into it and a dispel magic only counters dispel magic, not even greater dispel magic or dispel psionics. :) Are you sure about Dispel Magic not countering Dispel Psionics? If transparency means they have the same effect, wouldn't that be like saying Hideous Laughter doesn't dispel Tasha's Hideous Laughter?
Jindl 02-24-05, 02:03 PM	Are you sure about Dispel Magic not countering Dispel Psionics? If transparency means they have the same effect, wouldn't that be like saying Hideous Laughter doesn't dispel Tasha's Hideous Laughter? You cannot counterspell psionics, because they are spell-like abilities.
spasheridan 02-24-05, 02:05 PM	You cannot counterspell psionics, because they are spell-like abilities. I thought that under Psionic / Magic transparency dispel magic = dispel psionics.. or, in any place you can replace the word magic with psionics or psionics with magic and the effect is the same... which means that a dispel magic cast an a reaction to a manifested psychic power should counter the manifested psychic power. As far as readying an energy stun to counter an energy stun... I can't seem to recall any specific rules on that.
Jindl 02-24-05, 02:09 PM	I didn't say you couldn't dispel a psionic effect. You can. What I said is that psionics are defined as spell-like abilities (in the SRD and the XPHB) and that you cannot counterspell a spell-like ability. Hence, you cannot use dispel magic to counterspell any psionic power (including negate psionics). Note also that you cannot use negate psionics (or any power for that matter) to counterspell anything. BTW: This was previously discussed (at length) about 2 months ago.
spasheridan 02-24-05, 02:16 PM	BTW: This was previously discussed (at length) about 2 months ago. SOrry, bit of a newbie! (at least to this part of the forum) Where are the old discussions / arguments / rules findings kept?
Dalton Onestone 02-24-05, 02:28 PM	Sorry. Without checking I assumed there was a SPELL called "Dispel Psionics". Moving on, there is a spell called Dwoemer of Transference. Does this convert ANY spells cast at the target into psychic power points, or just spells that YOU cast. I think they said the former but meant the latter, based on other things they said in the spell description. If it's the former, then you have a Level 4 spell that provides unbeatable spell resistance, which doesn't sound right.
Jindl 02-24-05, 02:30 PM	SOrry, bit of a newbie! (at least to this part of the forum) Where are the old discussions / arguments / rules findings kept? No need to apologize. Unfortunately, we don't yet have an index of these old rulings/discussions/findings. We need one badly, but until someone volunteers to create it, we'll have to wait (because Cat + Ash are pretty overworked already). For the most part, these discussions are on the Tavern threads (I and II). My intention was to just let you know that this topic had been discussed at length before (hopefully to avoid another lengthy rehash of this rule). :D
Sindorin 02-24-05, 03:30 PM	Sorry. Without checking I assumed there was a SPELL called "Dispel Psionics". Moving on, there is a spell called Dwoemer of Transference. Does this convert ANY spells cast at the target into psychic power points, or just spells that YOU cast. I think they said the former but meant the latter, based on other things they said in the spell description. If it's the former, then you have a Level 4 spell that provides unbeatable spell resistance, which doesn't sound right. There are arcane spells included in the xphb that deal very cruelly with psionics. I haven't played very versatile wizards in the past, and thus have never bothered to check them out in full detail. However, I do believe that there is a spell that has a similar effect to what "Dispel Psionics" would probably be.
Dalton Onestone 02-24-05, 03:36 PM	However, I do believe that there is a spell that has a similar effect to what "Dispel Psionics" would probably be. I couldn't find it in the SRD.
Sindorin 02-24-05, 04:14 PM	ah, now that I can actually look at my xphb, there isn't such a spell, but there are some cool ones.
Iced 02-24-05, 05:20 PM	How do i know which pitlord to send my tactics too? I know who I'm fighting, (and i got a good chance...;)) but where do my tactics go? Also what does this mean?: Powers Known: [2] [Power Points: 15; Use: 5] 1: [Dc 14] Energy Ray, Control Flames Prefight Buffs: Enter psionically focused What do powers do and what is "Psionically focussed"?
T'Var 02-24-05, 05:34 PM	How do i know which pitlord to send my tactics too? I know who I'm fighting, (and i got a good chance...;)) but where do my tactics go? Also what does this mean?: Powers Known: [2] [Power Points: 15; Use: 5] 1: [Dc 14] Energy Ray, Control Flames Prefight Buffs: Enter psionically focused What do powers do and what is "Psionically focussed"? powers are psionic 'spells' you can look up there effect in the SRD. being focued is required for some psionic feats and can be used to give a +15 to a single concentration check and look all the way to the right of the line on your match it should have a " : T'Var " or someother name. that is the name of your pitlord you send him/her your tactics in your case it is Borrix (Iced) vs Roy Mustang (One_Winged_Angel): Huan is your pitlord for the fight
spasheridan 02-24-05, 07:53 PM	Hey Folks- So, say a PC wanted to go on a quest for an item. What's the value / ecl ratio for the quest? Thanks!
Naerdaloth 02-24-05, 08:15 PM	Suddenly, being able to Rage 3/d isn't useless anymore and we will finally see straight barbarians. Aha! But it is (useless). With 1/3 rule in place 3 times a day is identical to 1 time a day. Just takes about 10 levels more to get. :P
T'Var 02-24-05, 08:28 PM	Suddenly, being able to Rage 3/d isn't useless anymore and we will finally see straight barbarians. well Actually if you read Rage A barbarian can fly into a rage only once per encounter so it doesnt matter how many rages you have you can only use 1 a fight
Snommelp 02-24-05, 08:30 PM	So, say a PC wanted to go on a quest for an item. What's the value / ecl ratio for the quest? I think that the value:ECL ratio is the ratio of starting gold:ECL although I could be mistaken (it seems I am mistaken more here than in the real world) Concerning Rage: think that Cat was talking about how you could rage multiple times in a quest. Suddenly you can use all three rage abilities.
Iced 02-24-05, 09:03 PM	Thanks for the info!
T'Var 02-24-05, 09:07 PM	I think that the value:ECL ratio is the ratio of starting gold:ECL although I could be mistaken (it seems I am mistaken more here than in the real world) Concerning Rage: think that Cat was talking about how you could rage multiple times in a quest. Suddenly you can use all three rage abilities. ahh......NO TIC-TACS FOR YOU!
Caterane 02-24-05, 09:21 PM	I was talking about (Multiplayer-)Quests, Campagins, and Special Events which will attract a lot of gladiators thus making the ability to rage more than once much more attractive.
SnarkHunter 02-24-05, 11:07 PM	Straight barbarian is so boring though. No matter, I was just wondering If Einzel would ever finish updating the Rose Aureous fight. I figured in either case Aureous was going to level up and I didn't really mind being back a level if it turns out Rose had actually won. I'd just like to remove the ? from the fight link eh?
spasheridan 02-25-05, 12:27 AM	Rules type question. Say a rider has the mounted combat feat. Say his opponent is "hidden" and shoots his mount. Can the rider still make a ride check to avoid the hit even if the rider is flatfooted / unaware? I don't see any restriction from doin it but it sure seems silly to let the rider negate an attack he was unaware of. Tks!
spasheridan 02-25-05, 02:24 AM	So, since my 1st pitlording is about to begin I decided to dload the map tonight and give it a look. The txt version seemed fairly easy to use, so I cut and pasted it into a .doc file like suggested. To make a long story short, a doc file is a bad choice for this. Any real word processor will have a field day reformating those characters. That piece of code wants to be cut and pasted into a txt file and you want to view it with a text editor like notepad (for all us windows folks). Anywho, maybe the map post could be updated to reflect this.. or maybe someone could tell me how to use word to view it without the auto-formating killing the purpose of the doc. Tks!
Snommelp 02-25-05, 02:32 AM	I had the same problem, spash. I couldn't figure it out either, so I just drew the map up on a piece of graph paper. Sorry, but that's the best advice I can give you.
SnarkHunter 02-25-05, 04:34 AM	Check your email the both of you.
Jindl 02-25-05, 08:56 AM	Rules type question. Say a rider has the mounted combat feat. Say his opponent is "hidden" and shoots his mount. Can the rider still make a ride check to avoid the hit even if the rider is flatfooted / unaware? I don't see any restriction from doin it but it sure seems silly to let the rider negate an attack he was unaware of. Tks! The rider does not have to be aware of the attack in order to negate it with the Mounted Combat feat. BTW: That discussion was almost a year ago ;)
Pittbull 02-25-05, 08:59 AM	The rider does not have to be aware of the attack in order to negate it with the Mounted Combat feat. BTW: That discussion was almost a year ago ;) But he is denied his Dex-mod, against invisible opponents.
Jindl 02-25-05, 09:06 AM	But he is denied his Dex-mod, against invisible opponents. The mounted combat feat doesn't rely on whether you are denied your dex mod to armor class. Just like a reflex save doesn't matter if you are flat-footed or not.
Pittbull 02-25-05, 09:55 AM	Oh yes, checked it, you're right!
Snommelp 02-25-05, 11:33 AM	Check your email the both of you.Huzzah! You're my new best friend, Snark!
spasheridan 02-25-05, 12:34 PM	Check your email the both of you. Thanks Snark! The rider does not have to be aware of the attack in order to negate it with the Mounted Combat feat. BTW: That discussion was almost a year ago Cool! I'm a bit torn on this one, while the RAW agree with you it really seems silly to allow someone to negate an attack that you're unaware of. BUT, RAW is RAW so no arguement. THanks!
Huan 02-25-05, 07:04 PM	I do not know where exactly I am supposed to post this, nor how I am supposed to announce this, but... I would like to become a Questlord, and am willing to proctor a quest starting next week or the week after that.
Kaigan 02-25-05, 07:16 PM	@Huan, I would like Rayos to go on a quest. I would like for him to quest for an efficient quiver.
Huan 02-25-05, 11:13 PM	@Huan, I would like Rayos to go on a quest. I would like for him to quest for an efficient quiver. Sure, that's sounds cool. How does next week sound? Though I already have an idea for the story, to make this more personal, some RP or bio/history would be appreciated (it doesn't have to be very long, but enough so you describe the type of person Rayos is).
cellardweller 02-26-05, 05:30 AM	Just throwing my 2c into the pool. I agree in principle with the idea of horses sucking xp/gold. The problem I have is that it doesn't scale well - this goes for the the flat 25% rule applied to other allies too. It would be better if allies sucked out something like (100*(allies used/allies max allies)/4)% of earnings. That way a gladiator could give up the whole 25% if they thought it was a tough fight, or they could risk just bringing in a dog if they wanted to risk it for greater rewards. The "all or nothing" thing doesn't leave much room for choice. I threw out this half-baked idea a while ago hoping that someone would run with it and work out all the details for me, but alas no-one did. The current ruling: Allies: The most obvious way to use NPCs is to have them as an ally who fights at your side. However, there are restrictions on how many and which allies you can bring along. Basically, you can bring along any number of allies as long as their combined ECL (Effective character level) does not exceed your ECL-2. For allies that do not use a LA (level adjustment) the limit is your CR-4. And of course, you must be able to aquire the ally, be it through a spell, leadership, certain skills (diplomacy, handle animal), or even gold. If you have any allies in this category, they absorb 25% of the rewards for the fight. In addition to this you can also bring in a purchased animal up to CR2 which doesn't absorb fight rewards There are 4 problems with the system that I want to address. 1) If you need to use an ally, there is no point in using less than the maximum. 2) Horses provide an significant advantage for minimal cost at lower levels. 3) There is no option to "swap out" a horse for a more appropriate ally for the character. 4) There are no rules for using a combination of ECL'd and CR'd allies. Allow me to present the cellar dweller's fully baked ally proposal. The coefficient of allies is calculated according to the following CA = coeefficient of allies AELi = ECL of the i'th ally (0 if LA is '-') ACRi = CR of the i'th ally (0 if LA is not '-') CA = sum(AELi+ACRi) For example Johnny Uncarismatic is an 8th level human cleric. He has the leadership feat, but only has leadership score of 4. If he brought in his cohort (ECL 4) rode a light warhorse (CR1) and had raised an Ogre Skeleton (CR2) and a wolf skeleton (CR1). He would have a ca=sum(4+1+2+1)=8 Maximum CA The maximum ca a gladiator may bring into each fight is equal to his ECL and no individual ally may have an ael>ECL-2 or an acl>max(ecl-4,2) a CR greater than the gladiators ECL-4. Cost of allies Using allies in a fight reduces the rewards you recieve. You recieve CA/ECL*25% less xp and gc for winning a fight. Similarly you receive opponents oppnents CA/ECL*25% more xp and gc for defeating a gladiator that uses allies. Class allies (eg paladin's warhorse, wizards familiar) and not counted in any calculations. Examples Level 3 gladiator brings in ...a light warhorse (CA=1) : (1/3*.25) 8.33% xp and gold penalty ...a heavy warhorse (CA=2) : (2/3*.25) 16.67% gp and xp penalty. ...a heavy warhorse and a trained wolf (CA=3) : (3/3*.25) 25% xp and gold penalty. ...2 heavy warhorses (CA=4) : not permitted (CA>ECL) ...a giant owl (CA=3) : not permitted (eal>ECL-2) A Level 4 gladiator ...a light warhorse (CA=1) : (1/4*.25) 6.25% xp and gold penalty ...a heavy warhorse (CA=2) : (2/4*.25) 12.5% gp and xp penalty. ...a heavy warhorse and a trained wolf (CA=3) : (3/4*.25) 18.75% xp and gold penalty. ...2 heavy warhorses (CA=4) : (4/4*.25) 25% xp and gold penalty. ...a 5 headed hydra (CA=4) : Not permitted (ecr > ECL-4) A Level 5 gladiator ...a light warhorse (CA=1) : (1/5*.25) 5% xp and gold penalty ...a heavy warhorse (CA=2) : (2/5*.25) 10% gp and xp penalty. ...5 wolf skeletons (CA=5) : (5/5*.25) 25% xp and gold penalty.
Dalton Onestone 02-26-05, 05:42 AM	Two things, Cellardweller. 1. I'm not sure about equating CR and ECL. Isn't a CR N critter supposed to be a tough fight for about 4 ECL N characters? 2. .25% is a very small number. :D And a third thing -- you're pitlording a fight between Cat and me. Poor guy. Do you think you'll be able to even finish reading the tactics this week? ;)
cellardweller 02-26-05, 05:58 AM	The max ACR for an ally is limited to to ECL-4, whereas the max AEL is limited to ECL-2. The DMG (at least the 3.0 version - I never bothered updating to 3.5, but I assume its still there) states that multiple low CR creatures are not as difficult as a single high CR creature. For example at 8th level you could bring in, 2 Minotaur zombies or a L6 Sorcerer and a heavy warhorse. Looks about right to me. (also removed errant decimal point)
One_Winged_Angel 02-26-05, 11:00 AM	Something I still don't get though. Where does the proposed XP cost go? I mean, the normal rule is that the ally gains XP so that they can gain levels as well. However, a horse...uh, doesn't. I think that the gold penalties I understand, but it just seems weird that using a horse, especially if the horse doesn't do more beyond move, would cause you to take XP penalties. Still, even this seems like a somewhat unfair proposal. The gladiator paid his money to get the horse, why should he take additional penalties for something he paid for? Does a wizard get penelized for buying a scroll of fireball? That has the potental to end fights just a quickly, if not more so, but I don't see anyone complaining about it.
Kaigan 02-26-05, 11:57 AM	The reason why, is that you have to buy another scroll of fireball, after you use it. The horse doesn't die, and is like a permanent "equipement". I like Cellardweller's idea. I think that the XP drain, is not for going to your allies, in that case of having a horse. I think that the XP drain is for fighting against a lower CR character. An ECL 3 character vs. An ECL 3 character with a horse, both have different CR, so it seems only correct that the ECL 3 character receive a little more xp and gp, than the ecl 3 character with a horse.
TaggIIV 02-26-05, 12:14 PM	does reduce person affect a pixie?
Caterane 02-26-05, 12:58 PM	Still, even this seems like a somewhat unfair proposal. The gladiator paid his money to get the horse, why should he take additional penalties for something he paid for? For the same reason someone gets penalized for having a blackbear, a wizard cohort, or a mercenary. The gladiator has paid to get the <enter ally>, why should he take additional penalties for something he paid for? Because it is an additional combatant (and not an item). Speaking of mercenaries: I have created two mercenaries which I wanted to add to the Mercenary Roster some time ago but I realized that it is completely pointless to hire a Lvl 2 NPC for 270 gp a fight when you can have a much more powerful, cheaper, and permanent companion which you can even ride and on top of all that doesn't cost XP or gold (yes Sean, a horse). Once I have a bit more time at hand I will finish the FAQ and we will finally enable the horse costs ...which has already been discussed and decided so no point in discussing that again. @Tagg: No. Humanoids only. @Cellar: Sounds good to me. Let's see what Prof.Ashenai thinks about that. We talked about these problems for days and yours seems to be an easy solution.
Dalton Onestone 02-26-05, 03:50 PM	I still think that if spellcasters have to determine their arsenals before a fight, so should anybody who wants to hire a mercenary. And if that's the case, then pairings should be based on the adjusted level of the gladiator, not the raw one. Gladiators shouldn't be forced into fights that the guy doing the pairings thinks they're at the wrong level for.
Naerdaloth 02-26-05, 07:31 PM	Decided to try something new. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5180172&postcount=52) :D
Dalton Onestone 02-26-05, 07:44 PM	Cool! What's his race called in the SRD? I couldn't find it under "Grig".
Naerdaloth 02-26-05, 07:45 PM	Its classified under Sprite
Hatzinger 02-26-05, 07:50 PM	Hi! I am back! ( Yes, this IS a threat! ) Not enough Pixies left where i live. I slaughtered them all. As you would expect... I'll learn this psionic Schnick-Schnack asap, and then the most ugly representation of pure power that the core rules would allow will show its ugly head again as HEINRICH emerges from the shadows and starts to plot (again) against one of his most hated opponent: <insert whatever Arstimis' poor excuse for a character is> No, not this one... I mean that Pixie! Give me time, though ... I'm an old man and it seems as if i'd have to wait until the despisabl' PIXIES *dare* to raise them heads 'gain! (= when he is my lvl) ... CURSE 'DEM ALL!" EDIT: Awwwww.... i was ****-drunk when i wrote this stuff so don't wonder if my sentences make no sense. And i mean Pitbull's Pixie. But i'd like to battle with Arstimis too, of course ;)
Dalton Onestone 02-26-05, 08:18 PM	Ah. Got it. Looking at the pixies-as-characters section, however, it looks rather different than what you posted. Even if there's a general rule that says your version is generally OK too, there's an extra +2 LA if the pixie has a fiddle that you didn't account for.
Naerdaloth 02-26-05, 08:21 PM	Its not a pixie, it actually is a grig. Its the first entry under Sprite.
Arstimis 02-26-05, 08:44 PM	Hi! I am back! ( Yes, this IS a threat! ) Not enough Pixies left where i live. I slaughtered them all. As you would expect... I'll learn this psionic Schnick-Schnack asap, and then the most ugly representation of pure power that the core rules would allow will show its ugly head again as HEINRICH emerges from the shadows and starts to plot (again) against one of his most hated opponent: <insert whatever Arstimis' poor excuse for a character is> No, not this one... I mean that Pixie! Give me time, though ... I'm an old man and it seems as if i'd have to wait until the despisabl' PIXIES *dare* to raise them heads 'gain! (= when he is my lvl) ... CURSE 'DEM ALL!" OH OH YOU DID NOT! So is it a challange you want? You just wait...Im coming for you heheh. Welcome back
Dalton Onestone 02-26-05, 08:57 PM	Its not a pixie, it actually is a grig. Its the first entry under Sprite. Fair enough. I still think that the pixie entry suggests that if your grig is the "one per band" with the fiddle, there's an extra increment to the LA.
Sindorin 02-27-05, 02:32 AM	The Battle of the Avatars rages on as Hatzinger returns to the realm of Gladius... Megrim_Lord and Hatzinger have the same avatar... more headaches shall ensue... hehehe Welcome back!
TaggIIV 02-27-05, 09:26 AM	Another battle? o.O
cellardweller 02-27-05, 09:42 AM	I have to say that the 4th level league is the toughest and most balanced I've seen for a long time. Almost every fight could be altered by a single roll of the die. Cudos to all their owners.
Caterane 02-27-05, 01:17 PM	@TaggIV: :mymy: How the heck did you manage to get the same avatar as I have??? I have a custom avatar which is not generally available!!
Huan 02-27-05, 01:54 PM	Looks like another challenge for a custom avatar ... No one had better go after me...
Caterane 02-27-05, 02:09 PM	And to be honest, I don't like that either. I wanted to have a custom avatar to have a unique one. Perhaps TaggIIV/Naerdaloth will be so kind to pick another one. Huan's perhaps. Or Jindl's LOL Seems to be a favorite these days
TaggIIV 02-27-05, 03:42 PM	Heheh, edited to prevent rioting ;p
Sindorin 02-27-05, 03:54 PM	How the heck are you getting those?
Jindl 02-27-05, 04:42 PM	Decided to try something new. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5180172&postcount=52) :D I think you've got a great build there. :D Just a few minor things (I suppose I could have posted them on the violations thread): 1. SR doesn't scale with level for a grig. They have SR 17, and will have SR 17 forever. 2. Your weasel's barding should cost 100 gp (see armor for unusual creatures chart.) 3. Since I couldn't find anything regarding the cost/wieght of tiny weapons, I think it appropriate to assume that cost remains the same and wieght drops by 1/2. Your tiny darkwood longbow should cost 75 gp +300 gp mw + 7.5 gp darkwood (0.75 lbs) = 382.5 gp and weigh 0.75 lbs x 1/2 = 0.375 lbs. Also, remember that longbows do suffer the str penalty to damage, so your bow should deal 1d4-2 damage. 4. You may want to look at the list of alternate familiars for Tiny masters (DMG, pg 203). AFAIK, you'd be the first person to truly qualify for one of the smaller familars. (The ferret gives the same bonus to reflex as the weasel.) 5. If you're going to have/use a bag of tricks, you should put a couple of ranks in Handle Animal (or at least list it on your skills). I think you've got a great build there. Good luck! Fair enough. I still think that the pixie entry suggests that if your grig is the "one per band" with the fiddle, there's an extra increment to the LA. There probably should be, but its not listed anywhere in the rules.
TaggIIV 02-27-05, 05:03 PM	Thanks for the help. Just one thing about the weight of tiny items/weapons, I couldnt find it explicitly mentioned either, but I figured the 1/10th because thats what the weight is listed as for Tiny or smaller, armor for unusual creatures
spasheridan 02-27-05, 05:03 PM	Pixies as Characters A pixie character exchanges its 1 HD of fey for its first class level. Pixie characters possess the following racial traits. * –4 Strength, +8 Dexterity, +6 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, +6 Charisma. * Small size. +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters. * A pixie’s base land speed is 20 feet. It also has a fly speed of 60 feet (good). * Low-light vision. * Skills: Pixies have a +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. * Racial Feats: A pixie receives Dodge as a bonus feat. * +1 natural armor bonus. * Special Attacks (see above): Spell-like abilities. * Special Qualities (see above): Damage reduction 10/cold iron, greater invisibility, spell resistance equal to 15 + class levels. * Automatic Languages: Common, Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnome, Halfling. * Favored Class: Sorcerer. * Level adjustment +4 (+6 if the pixie can use irresistible dance). Since there's no specific entry for Grigs, you should probably use the one for Pixies. 1/10 Pixies get a "fiddle" for +2 LA, but 1 in a band Grigs get it for free?
One_Winged_Angel 02-27-05, 05:08 PM	Since there's no specific entry for Grigs, you should probably use the one for Pixies. 1/10 Pixies get a "fiddle" for +2 LA, but 1 in a band Grigs get it for free? Sure there is. Look under the "Sprite" in the MM.
TaggIIV 02-27-05, 05:16 PM	Its a supernatural ability, so a grig PC would get it. If a grig has a fiddle, and they play it, the ability is activated, to my understanding. As for the "one in a band," that just means that if theres a band of grig NPCs only one would have a fiddle on him.. the rest would have weapons or something, or flutes.
Dalton Onestone 02-27-05, 07:34 PM	There probably should be, but its not listed anywhere in the rules. C'mon. It's clear from reading the SRD that an average grig does NOT have a fiddle. The entry under pixies -- the closest PC category that the SRD contemplates -- is strong additional evidence that a fiddle should cost two levels or so.
Jindl 02-27-05, 07:38 PM	C'mon. It's clear from reading the SRD that an average grig does NOT have a fiddle. The entry under pixies -- the closest PC category that the SRD contemplates -- is strong additional evidence that a fiddle should cost two levels or so. That's why I said it should be. But the rules do not give 2 possible LA's for grigs, like they do for pixies. Grigs are listed as LA+3, and only LA+3.
Dalton Onestone 02-27-05, 07:53 PM	That's why I said it should be. But the rules do not give 2 possible LA's for grigs, like they do for pixies. Grigs are listed as LA+3, and only LA+3. Then he shouldn't have the fiddle, since most grigs don't. End of problem.
TaggIIV 02-27-05, 08:09 PM	Its a supernatural ability, not extraordinary. its not a magic fiddle, its inborne to grigs. it says one per band CARRIES a fiddle. it doesnt say only one per band is able to use this ability. So, from what I can infer, this means that a grig that carries a fiddle is able to use this ability. edit: Its also listed under Special Attacks in the main entry. This, combined with Jindl's point, means that the "fiddle" ability is usable for any grig
Jindl 02-27-05, 09:22 PM	Just so we're clear, I don't particularly think you should have the ability. A grig has similar ability score adjustments and spell-like abilities as a pixie. However, for a pixie to have the ability to use otto's irresistable dance 1/day is the equivalent of a +2 increase to the LA. If every grig has this ability, then you are assuming that all of the rest of a grig's abilities are only worth a +1 LA, and I think we know that would be a ridiculous assumption. So do I think you should have the fiddle ability? No. But since the rules don't specify against it, I think it would take an Elder vote or GM decision to deny it. If such a decision occurs, I hope you will continue with the build, because I think it will still prove very effective, without being "broken". -Jindl
cellardweller 02-27-05, 10:06 PM	I don't have any problem with a grig using ID. The big difference between the grig version and the pixie/spell version is that it allows a DC10+chr saving throw.
TaggIIV 02-27-05, 10:10 PM	Alright, I will wait for some sort of ruling. While I think its legal, I admit it is a bit powerful. If its overruled I wont object. Though, I would not compare grigs to pixies for LA and such. They are far from equal.. pixies get better ability mods, more SR, more DR, more and better spell-like abilities, permanent invisibility, better fly capabilities. Grigs are tiny and get 1 more natural armor. It doesnt seem so far fetched for the fiddle to be included in the LA. Also, keep in mind that the pixies take a 2 more LA for the irresistable dance as a spelllike ability. THat means a DC of 8 higher than the fiddle's edit: oh, stupid me, pixies dont even allow a save for their irresistable dance*
Huan 02-27-05, 10:16 PM	Nothing to do with anything, Tagg, but a Link and Navi avatar? Pretty sweet... good choice. :cool:
Snommelp 02-28-05, 12:50 AM	Concerning the Grig: I have to cast my vote in favor of Naerdaloth/Tagg, and not just because he's my questlord. My reasoning is actually pretty strange, but it's logical. The spell Summon Nature's Ally allows for three different Pixies at three different levels of the spell. The highest level of these pixies can cast Irresistable Dance; the other two can't. You can only summon one type of Grig with SNA, and that is a Grig with a fiddle. This leads me to the conclusion that all Grigs do in fact have fiddles. The "one in a band" is merely the only one actually using his fiddle, because as any orchestral musician will tell you too many violins makes bad music.
Caterane 02-28-05, 04:21 AM	I don't think that the Dance increases the LA but is already tailored into the +3. Jindl, you assumed that the dance ability is worth +2 but since it has a save it isn't much better than Tasha's laughter, worse even because the grig needs to continue playing. No, let's do it the other way around: If we compare a LA+3 Grig with a LA+4 Pixie and take Otto's Dance away from the Grig, the difference between these two is too big to be a mere +1. A pixie is small whereas a Grig is tiny Fly 60 (good) vs Fly 40 (poor) DR 10 vs DR 5 Compare abilities: (Strength/Dex are the same) Pixie: +6 int, +4 wis, +6 cha Grig: +2 con, +2 wis, +4 cha Pixie: Permanent greater invisibility!! Pixie: Spell-Resistance scales!! Compare the spell-like abilities: Pixie: lesser confusion, dancing lights, detect chaos, detect law, detect evil, detect good, detect thoughts, dispel magic, entangle, permanent image, polymorph. Grig: disguise self, entangle, invisibility, pyrotechnics, ventriloquism. You see, these advantages over the grig can in no way be worth +1 LA. Infact, not even with the Pseudo Irresistable Dance (the main danger of Otto's dance is that it doesn't allow a save!) which is now just another mediocre ability.
Dalton Onestone 02-28-05, 05:21 AM	I defer graciously to Cat's logic (and that of just about everybody else who weighed in on the grig LA). "Wenn du Recht hast, hast du Recht." -- another common saying in my family, approximately as common as "Ich bin ganz meiner Meinung." ;)
Pittbull 02-28-05, 06:34 AM	@Hatze: Welcome, back! But be careful, the Pixies will strike back! @Tagg: Hey cool, I love your sprite-character, hopefully he'll join Laph (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5203480&postcount=161) on his way to avenge all Sprites, Heinrich (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2868527) has tortured and murdered.
spasheridan 02-28-05, 01:11 PM	Hey Folks- Say I'm a Psychic Warrior and I take the expanded knowledge feat to learn Astral Construct. Now I can manifest Astral Construct. BUT, is Astral Construct on my powers list? It's still a shaper 1 power, not a psychic warrior power. Do I need an Int of 11 to use it instead of my wis? IF it's not on my power list, I can't use a psychic stone of astral construct without a use psychic device check (just like a wizard needs to make a use magic device to use a scroll of cure light wounds, and the wiz needs a wis 11 or another use magic device check). OR, does the expanded knowledge add the power to my class power list (not specifed in the feat). Tks!
Jindl 02-28-05, 01:29 PM	It adds the power to both your power list and your powers known. FYI: The earliest you could take this feat would be 5th level, using your psywar bonus feat. You need to be able to manifest 2nd level powers to use expanded knowledge to gain a 1st level power.
Dalton Onestone 02-28-05, 08:17 PM	By the way, how long were the boards down for this time? They came up not all that long ago (I'm writing this at 8:15ish EST). I think they had been down since I started checking 4 pm EST or earlier.
spasheridan 02-28-05, 09:45 PM	So, question on mounts and the nimbus. Is there a reason for the nimbus to bring animals (like a horse) back to life like it does the PCs? The reason I ask is because it seems to me that part of the price determination in a mount is their mortality. Kinda like a wand or a scroll. Mounts die, and then they get replaced. They're not like a longsword that stays with you till you sell it (or run into a rust monster). Balance wise / gladius wise, what was the reasoning the have the nimbus bring purchased mounts back to life? I'm cool with it working on familiars / animal companions / paladins mount, but for horsie the horse? Tks! @ Jindl - Thanks! I play it the same way, but I couldn't find a RAW reason for it to be so. @ Dalton - I'd say 4 or 5 hours. Came back up ~ 5pm PST, down maybe noonish.
Jindl 02-28-05, 09:59 PM	So, question on mounts and the nimbus. Is there a reason for the nimbus to bring animals (like a horse) back to life like it does the PCs? The reason I ask is because it seems to me that part of the price determination in a mount is their mortality. Kinda like a wand or a scroll. Mounts die, and then they get replaced. They're not like a longsword that stays with you till you sell it (or run into a rust monster). Balance wise / gladius wise, what was the reasoning the have the nimbus bring purchased mounts back to life? I'm cool with it working on familiars / animal companions / paladins mount, but for horsie the horse? Tks! It didn't use to work on purchased allies. But it was changed so that opponents could not permanently harm your pc by destroying valuable "stuff". For example, if your opponent sunders your +3 greatsword of doom (becuase you forgot to make it adamantine...), then you get it repaired for free after the fight. Same thing for your heavy warhorse.
spasheridan 02-28-05, 10:53 PM	Well, I can see how the sundered greatsword can set you back a pinch, since they are usually not something you consider being destroyed. Mounts on the other hand are something you look at as something that can be destroyed. IMO they seem to be a bit much. Huge speed bump, AC boost, damage dealer... all for a few hundred gold and 3 or 6 ranks of ride. Even if the other PC just kills the mount, any round spent killing the mount is a round not spent killing the gladiator. And even if the mount dies, it comes back to life so you don't ever have to buy a new one! I've seen many matches hinge on the actions of the mount, they seem a bit too good for their gold. Maybe this will change after level 5 or so, but then we just get bigger mounts.
Snommelp 02-28-05, 11:01 PM	AFAIK, mounts come back to life because people got tired of other gladiators becoming horse hunters. After you lose your fourth horse in as many fights, it starts to get old.
Jindl 02-28-05, 11:27 PM	Well, I can see how the sundered greatsword can set you back a pinch, since they are usually not something you consider being destroyed. Mounts on the other hand are something you look at as something that can be destroyed. IMO they seem to be a bit much. Huge speed bump, AC boost, damage dealer... all for a few hundred gold and 3 or 6 ranks of ride. Even if the other PC just kills the mount, any round spent killing the mount is a round not spent killing the gladiator. And even if the mount dies, it comes back to life so you don't ever have to buy a new one! I've seen many matches hinge on the actions of the mount, they seem a bit too good for their gold. Maybe this will change after level 5 or so, but then we just get bigger mounts. You don't have much to chose from in the realm of "bigger mounts." Not without spending major gp and skills/feats, not to mention losing major xp. I think most of the outcry against mounts results from the low level. At higher levels, they will be pretty useless. Then the outcry will be against phantasmal steed. As Tellish once proved, some builds are strong early and others are strong late. (Read up on Kelek of the Purge or Hurtz of the Nine Cranes sometime). Warhorses may give a significant boost of power now, but by 5th level they will be much less important. And at 8th level they will be nearly worthless.
One_Winged_Angel 02-28-05, 11:34 PM	You don't have much to chose from in the realm of "bigger mounts." Not without spending major gp and skills/feats, not to mention losing major xp. I think most of the outcry against mounts results from the low level. At higher levels, they will be pretty useless. Then the outcry will be against phantasmal steed. As Tellish once proved, some builds are strong early and others are strong late. (Read up on Kelek of the Purge or Hurtz of the Nine Cranes sometime). Warhorses may give a significant boost of power now, but by 5th level they will be much less important. And at 8th level they will be nearly worthless. Hehe. I remember the fight involving phantasmal steed. I ran that one. Hey, Hatz, now that your back, can you recall that nasty bit of work? I loved it.
xanadu 03-01-05, 02:34 AM	I have a question regarding Druids exchanging their companions. I looked at the FAQ and I noticed that if I wanted to get a new companion, I'd have to not fight for 6 weeks in order to teach it tricks :eek: Is this why Jindl's druid is on a quest? I'm mainly asking because win or lose next week, my Druid will level up to 4th. As a side question, are there are any special COCO rules for selling back used stuff?
Dalton Onestone 03-01-05, 03:01 AM	As a side question, are there are any special COCO rules for selling back used stuff? If it's truly used, half of list price. If not, the rules are generous about giving a full refund. If you crafted it yourself, half price generally equals a full refund anyway.
Pitlords 03-01-05, 05:13 AM	Because of the Boards Downtime the deadline for fights has been extended to 10 PM GMT. There is still a Quest offer from T'Var on the Quest Roster. If anyone is interested...
Dalton Onestone 03-01-05, 06:01 AM	Considering the high fraction of fights that get modified, perhaps the deadline for "first drafts" should (board outages aside) be EARLIER than it is now.
Caterane 03-01-05, 02:48 PM	Considering the high fraction of fights that get modified, perhaps the deadline for "first drafts" should (board outages aside) be EARLIER than it is now. Dalton, I want to encourage pitlording, not diminish the number of pitlords by creating more conditions. Especially now that credits are of little use we have to give our thanks to every pitlord who contributes to the CoCo. Without them, this board wouldn't exist. Of course, I'll gladly add you to the list of pitlords if you want to moderate fights. @Remaining-Fights-Pitlords: Well, because of ANOTHER Board downtime :raincloud we just forget about the deadline above. Still, I want to ask you to get your fights up before tomorow's pairings are done because else, characters have to "sit out" a week and no one wants that.
Dalton Onestone 03-01-05, 03:22 PM	So the deadline for editing our characters hasn't been changed yet for this week. OK. Neither of my characters' fights has been completed yet.
OdinTheReaper 03-01-05, 03:49 PM	Question: Can i have 3 characters total, but only have two fight per week and keep 1 out? Do i get docked a credit per week for doing so?
Caterane 03-01-05, 04:02 PM	Question: Can i have 3 characters total, but only have two fight per week and keep 1 out? Do i get docked a credit per week for doing so? Sure. Actually this is a wise precaution anyway. Of course, having 7 gladiators isn't necessary *cough*Kaigan*cough* ;)
Snommelp 03-01-05, 04:27 PM	So, do we have an ETA for ECL 5? I don't want to unveil my creation until I can use it, so I'd like to know when I can expect to unveil it.
OdinTheReaper 03-01-05, 04:31 PM	Well since you cannot use him until someone reaches that level...and at the rate most gladiators (cough the elder cough) are going i would say that next week we will have at least one character at an ecl of 5. So either next week or the week after depending on when you want to use him.
Jindl 03-01-05, 04:36 PM	Uhmentarymster the Old and Eniolissaryn the Elder are the only PC's capable of reaching 5th level this week, and then only if they win.
Snommelp 03-01-05, 04:37 PM	Excellent... the only problem is that I wrote into his background that he followed Cedric to Gladius, so I have to wait for Cedric's quest to finish. Of course, that should happen soon, as well. New question: how much do feather tokens weigh? I couldn't find that info in the SRD.
T'Var 03-01-05, 04:44 PM	Excellent... the only problem is that I wrote into his background that he followed Cedric to Gladius, so I have to wait for Cedric's quest to finish. Of course, that should happen soon, as well. New question: how much do feather tokens weigh? I couldn't find that info in the SRD. as the token they weigh *= no noticable weight once they are activated they weigh as much as the item normally would
Dalton Onestone 03-01-05, 08:38 PM	The description of the spell "Locate Object" says that creatures cannot be found by it. The description does NOT say, however, that objects attended by creatures cannot be found by it. Thoughts?
Arstimis 03-01-05, 08:56 PM	The description of the spell "Locate Object" says that creatures cannot be found by it. The description does NOT say, however, that objects attended by creatures cannot be found by it. Thoughts? My thought is that it says exactly what it says, no matter who/what is carrying or not carrying it
Dalton Onestone 03-01-05, 09:00 PM	My thought is that it says exactly what it says, no matter who/what is carrying or not carrying it So which side are you on? Can one find somebody's armor or Scroll of MM CL 9 in the arena or not?
One_Winged_Angel 03-01-05, 09:58 PM	There is still a Quest offer from T'Var on the Quest Roster. If anyone is interested... I'll take it. If T'var could PM me or IM me if he has AIM, I'd be all too happy to run it.
Dalton Onestone 03-02-05, 12:54 AM	The description of the spell "Locate Object" says that creatures cannot be found by it. The description does NOT say, however, that objects attended by creatures cannot be found by it. Thoughts? Bump. The point is that Locate Object might be pretty useful in the arena if it can reliably find things gladiators are holding.
Snommelp 03-02-05, 12:58 AM	Bump. The point is that Locate Object might be pretty useful in the arena if it can reliably find things gladiators are holding. For a specific item you need a specific and accurate mental image. If you don't have that, you can only locate the nearest item of that type (i.e. the nearest shortsword rather than your opponent's shortsword).
Dalton Onestone 03-02-05, 01:09 AM	For a specific item you need a specific and accurate mental image. If you don't have that, you can only locate the nearest item of that type (i.e. the nearest shortsword rather than your opponent's shortsword). Unless a lot of audience members sit in the front rows with CL9 MM scrolls and potions of Hide From Animals, that shouldn't be an insuperable problem. Besides, you can scout your opponents and memorize what their equipment looks like from previous weeks. In a normal campaign you don't know exactly what your opponent is carrying. But in an arena bout you do.
cellardweller 03-02-05, 01:14 AM	This tactic has been used a number of times in the past and is an acceptable use of the spell.
Snommelp 03-02-05, 01:15 AM	Unless a lot of audience members sit in the front rows with CL9 MM scrolls and potions of Hide From Animals, that shouldn't be an insuperable problem. Besides, you can scout your opponents and memorize what their equipment looks like from previous weeks. In a normal campaign you don't know exactly what your opponent is carrying. But in an arena bout you do. The problem I see is that, if you don't know what the scroll or potion specifically looks like, you could use the spell and wind up locating scrolls or potions that you yourself carry. Although you are right, if you scout your opponent's previous fights it shouldn't be a problem.
Dalton Onestone 03-02-05, 01:38 AM	This tactic has been used a number of times in the past and is an acceptable use of the spell. Thanks. It certainly seems more likely to be useful than Detect Thoughts, just because of its range.
Pittbull 03-02-05, 02:23 AM	The description of the spell "Locate Object" says that creatures cannot be found by it. The description does NOT say, however, that objects attended by creatures cannot be found by it. Thoughts? I got too many fights against Harvesters with quickened locate object. So, I can tell you, this is an effective tactic. Look, what my characters or Archangel Ixenthor wear!
Dalton Onestone 03-02-05, 02:40 AM	In other news, I denote a lack of clarity about this scenario: Horse full attacks. Rider then casts spell. What kind of Ride or Concentration checks are needed, if any, for that to happen? I also don't think the discussion on Readying spells while doublemoving on a horse to be cast at the end of the move or later was ever concluded.
T'Var 03-02-05, 08:24 AM	In other news, I denote a lack of clarity about this scenario: Horse full attacks. Rider then casts spell. What kind of Ride or Concentration checks are needed, if any, for that to happen? I also don't think the discussion on Readying spells while doublemoving on a horse to be cast at the end of the move or later was ever concluded. horse full attacks no check needed cast spell no check needed horse makes a single move no check needed single move and rider casts spell no check double move and rider casts dc10 Concentration running and rider casts dc15 Concentration
Caterane 03-02-05, 10:37 AM	I got too many fights against Harvesters with quickened locate object. So, I can tell you, this is an effective tactic. Ah the good old times... :cloud9:
Jindl 03-02-05, 10:51 AM	horse full attacks no check needed cast spell no check needed Need to succeed at a ride check to "Fight with Warhorse" in order to cast.
T'Var 03-02-05, 11:15 AM	Need to succeed at a ride check to "Fight with Warhorse" in order to cast. Im gona dissagree Jindl the skill says to Attack. not to preform a standerd action. Fight with Warhorse: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action. so for most spells you would not need to. only if the spell requires a melee or ranged touch attack
OdinTheReaper 03-02-05, 11:33 AM	I need help here...how much is a ML9 tatoo of vigor? Thanks.
Pittbull 03-02-05, 11:38 AM	I need help here...how much is a ML9 tatoo of vigor? Thanks. I think you cannot enhance tatoos, only stones can be made with higher MLs - CoCo-rule! A stone would cost 9x25gp=225gp. A customized tatoo would cost 9x100gp=900gp. :)
Pitlords 03-02-05, 02:41 PM	We have pitlords for 22 fights. Last week we had 27 fights. If anyone of you can pitlord additional fights it would help.
Sindorin 03-02-05, 02:42 PM	We have pitlords for 22 fights. Last week we had 27 fights. If anyone of you can pitlord additional fights it would help. I can take two this week since I have been getting them done rather quickly. PM incoming.
Huan 03-02-05, 02:44 PM	For this week only you can set me to 'max' and give me however many you would like.
spasheridan 03-02-05, 04:26 PM	I'll take 3 this week if you need it. In other news, can you buy a wand at less than full charge? Say a wand with 10 charges for 20% cost?
T'Var 03-02-05, 04:27 PM	I'll take 3 this week if you need it. In other news, can you buy a wand at less than full charge? Say a wand with 10 charges for 20% cost? no all items must be bought at there full price/capacity
stinkygoblin 03-02-05, 07:18 PM	why was Rex's last fight never run and why is he inactive this week
xanadu 03-02-05, 07:24 PM	why was Rex's last fight never run and why is he inactive this week You got to change the title header for your character each week (i.e. ready for 2/26). I did the same thing before.
spasheridan 03-02-05, 07:47 PM	Pitlording is tough, no doubt about it. And the schedule is hectic, no doubt about it. But fights that get extended or run late... they can be a big hastle on the player as well. I'd like to see pitlords post pastes of PCs and initial tactics, even with no rounds or init, by monday every week. This way the player can start editing their PC for next week.. you know, adjusting errors in the sheet, editing for gaurunteed level increases. I'd also like to see pitlords post in the fights thread if they're going to miss the deadlines. Most pitlords are really good about this, but an early post about missing a deadine might let another pitlord run the fight on time. THis isn't a gripe though, after running my 1st fight I can see what a pain these things can be. Just some ideas on how to streamline things...
One_Winged_Angel 03-02-05, 10:22 PM	why was Rex's last fight never run and why is he inactive this week I was run. I did it. You won. Congrats.
One_Winged_Angel 03-02-05, 10:23 PM	We have pitlords for 22 fights. Last week we had 27 fights. If anyone of you can pitlord additional fights it would help. Yah, sure, bring it on. It's not like I have a life anyway.
Dalton Onestone 03-03-05, 02:24 AM	I'd like to see pitlords post pastes of PCs and initial tactics, even with no rounds or init, by monday every week. This way the player can start editing their PC for next week.. you know, adjusting errors in the sheet, editing for gaurunteed level increases. Good idea.
Dalton Onestone 03-03-05, 05:43 AM	One very minor parting thought -- I happen to have noticed a fairly common technical error in Kwerrock's last fight, namely Readying a move. One can Ready a move action, but not if it's an actual move.
Dalton Onestone 03-03-05, 05:56 AM	And another -- I think you guys should reconsider your views on chases. If two people of equal speed chase either other in a confined circular area, the pursuer WILL catch up with the right strategy. Even with a small speed difference in favor of the pursued, that could happen. The right strategy is to stay between the pursuee and the center as the top priority, while actually minimizing the distance to the pursuee is only the secondary priority.
cellardweller 03-03-05, 07:49 AM	One very minor parting thought -- I happen to have noticed a fairly common technical error in Kwerrock's last fight, namely Readying a move. One can Ready a move action, but not if it's an actual move. This is incorrect, there are no rules preventing a readied move. The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so). Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action. You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round. And another -- I think you guys should reconsider your views on chases. If two people of equal speed chase either other in a confined circular area, the pursuer WILL catch up with the right strategy. Even with a small speed difference in favor of the pursued, that could happen. The right strategy is to stay between the pursuee and the center as the top priority, while actually minimizing the distance to the pursuee is only the secondary priority. You are neglecting the run action. By running along a tangent to the "circle" formed by the center obstacle (a path which the persuer cannot follow), you "reset" the distance between the gladiators.
Caterane 03-03-05, 12:31 PM	@ALL: I have added a new attraction to the World thread <click here> (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4037257) If you can't find yourself in this list, please write a PM to Pitlords with your birthday date (incl year). I'll add links throughout the board to this post so that we can all check once in a while. Surely someone might notice someone's birthday. @Kaigan: What's your birthyear?
Sindorin 03-03-05, 01:09 PM	Wow, haven't felt this young in a long time, even after dating someone 4 years older than me for almost a year (I :inlove: Nanaleigh!!!)
Caterane 03-03-05, 01:18 PM	Ah... the kids I've never been so young *wallow in memories* http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/humpel.gif http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/krank2.gif :D
T'Var 03-03-05, 01:36 PM	....there are people here that were born AFTER the Berlin wall fell...... :OMG!
Pittbull 03-03-05, 01:43 PM	The wall has fallen? :OMG! ;) :D :D
Pitlords 03-03-05, 01:45 PM	I've just talked to Piuro and he made a good point: what if someone wants to test higher level builds? As it is now he would have to play his character all the way up which takes months; months he doesn't want to wait and months he wastes on playing low levels which are uninteresting to him. In the Classic CoCo this was not much of a problem because you leveled very fast so that you could reach the desired test level quickly. Of course, since you had only 1 fight you couldn't effectively test the build either (2 wins because of luck, 1 bad opponoment, and 1 fails to send tactics and *zack* you are 4 levels higher without knowing wether your build is good or not). I think we have to take it into consideration that some people just don't want to wait that long. Fortunately, Living Gladius makes it easily possible to achieve both goals (extended level testing and instant target level access) by allowing to "buy" levels with credits just like LA-creatures do (Ixenthor, Larph, etc). I don't really see a difference between this and allowing regular races a higher entry. This of course comes at a small price. You have to pay credits of course but characters that enter higher in level miss out some gold but that is balanced out by the fact that they didn't use any expendable items. IMO Piuro's request is a legitimate one. If every other character enters higher in level we can always regulate it by increasing the credit cost but I don't think that will be the case. So what do you think?
Pittbull 03-03-05, 01:52 PM	I love this idea!!
Jindl 03-03-05, 02:00 PM	In the old Arena, we decided against this because, as you said, a gladiator that starts at a higher ECL will have more gold than one that wins his way up there. However, I don't think this has to be the case in LG. I think it is reasonable to allow all PC's to spend credits to gain levels. However, we need to establish what credits are worth. I would suggest coming up with a number, like 1 credit = 1000 gp/1000 xp. This would be used for starting at higher levels and for simply adding more levels to existing pc's. Yes, I know you would need more credits to reach higher ECL's, compared to the current system, but given how many ways you can now obtain credits, and how quickly many people are building credits, I think this is reasonable. Also note that it became cheaper to start at ECL 4 and ECL 5. Under the old system, ECL 4 requires 4 credits. Now it would only require 3 credits to take you to 6200 xp/6000 gp. ECL 5 would take 8 credits under the old system, but now it costs 7 credits (taking you to 10200 xp/10000 gp). At ECL 6 it would cost 12 credits under the new system (15200 xp/15000 gp) which is the same as the old system. Beyond ECL 6 it gets more expensive, but that's fine by me. I think this would work great, especially for gladiators that are only 1000 xp from going up a level. They could just spend a credit and move into the next bracket. This would be my recommendation. -Jindl
T'Var 03-03-05, 02:11 PM	that sounds like a great system Jindl. help some of us spend the masses of credits we've earned and havent been able to spend thus far in LG
Pittbull 03-03-05, 02:11 PM	Yes! I like your idea Jindl! Let's decide quickly before ECL5 start. Not many higher ECL builds have been posted so far and they can be fixed easily.
Caterane 03-03-05, 02:21 PM	That sounds like an interesting idea but I see some problems with that. First of all, 1000 XP are not always 1000 Gold. The XP/Gold relation will shift over time and so would the 1 credit = 1000 XP/GP have to shift which is not possible or very very difficult to calculate. Having a fixed Level X = XP (a) and Gold (b) is much easier. Secondly, even if we could create a table that reflects a perfect XP/GP relation it will have the effect that people will be tempted to spend 1 credit to gain the last 1000 XP to level up instead of having one or two additional fights. This in return leads to a much faster level progression similar to the one in the Classic CoCo and decreases the amount of testing at a certain level. This however is not the purpose of the new rule. The purpose is to grant someone instant access to his desired level, and move at the same pace as everyone else from there on. I think we should restrict it to entry levels first, and expand it later to "level skipping" if desired. Edit: "Level skipping" in terms of one complete level per 4 credits, similar to higher LA entries. Edit2: With Jindl's rule, I am sure that half the characters would jump to level 5 next wednesday. Who wants to wait at the bottom when you can instantly jump to where the real show is going on...
Jindl 03-03-05, 03:22 PM	First of all, 1000 XP are not always 1000 Gold. The XP/Gold relation will shift over time and so would the 1 credit = 1000 XP/GP have to shift which is not possible or very very difficult to calculate. Having a fixed Level X = XP (a) and Gold (b) is much easier. Agreed. So lets determine an amount. Perhaps 1 credit = 1000 xp / 900 gp, or something similar? Keep in mind that characters who start at higher ECL's have unlimited time to craft, and thus can begin with mithril full plate, pegasi they trained themselves, expensive self crafted magic items, etc., while PC's who level up by fighting would have to sit inactive long enough to craft these items. Secondly, even if we could create a table that reflects a perfect XP/GP relation it will have the effect that people will be tempted to spend 1 credit to gain the last 1000 XP to level up instead of having one or two additional fights. This in return leads to a much faster level progression similar to the one in the Classic CoCo and decreases the amount of testing at a certain level. This however is not the purpose of the new rule. The purpose is to grant someone instant access to his desired level, and move at the same pace as everyone else from there on. I think we should restrict it to entry levels first, and expand it later to "level skipping" if desired. Edit: "Level skipping" in terms of one complete level per 4 credits, similar to higher LA entries. Edit2: With Jindl's rule, I am sure that half the characters would jump to level 5 next wednesday. Who wants to wait at the bottom when you can instantly jump to where the real show is going on... That's not necessarily a bad thing. It prevents high level characters from having to sit out while everyone else catches up, which was, IMO, the main problem with the old CoCo. Look at the old roster, and at how many high level PC's were sitting out. This would help prevent that. I don't see a problem with it, if it keeps successful characters active.
Caterane 03-03-05, 03:46 PM	But the main reward of successful characters - that they level faster - is offset by this. Now you can play the greatest loser and still be always at the top with equal money. On a grander scale this replaces the regular level system with an alternative (partly metagame-) advancement which IMO takes away a lot of the flavor and the rewards, and transforms the basic game concept (game = play, having fun) into a much colder more mathematical board where your characters can use metagame influences to gain XP. Where's the incentive to reach a higher level when you can just hop there instantly? PS: If characters in the old CoCo could buy levels, then not the high level ranks but the low level ranks would have been deserted. You don't get more characters with your suggestion; you just relocate them. The problem in the old CoCo however was that we had too few characters and a system that was too rigid. If it proves that we need more characters then we can increase the number of free characters to 3 (I think we'll have enough pitlords once all credit using functions are available). Additional solutions would be that higher level gladiators can go on Quests or Campaigns, or we set up a special event for them. Don't forget that you can later fight PCs from different leagues, or mercenaries if no one else is available. This problem has yet to occur to make up our minds about it. PS2: And then there's also the question about a correct XP/GP relation. 1000/900 isn't a solution either. At low levels XP = Gold as we see at the bottom of every fight now but that won't stay that way. We would have to calculate it seperately for every level. At level 19 buying 19000 XP doesn't give you only 19000 Gold. Making a fixed table like the one for higher ECL characters with fixed gold/xp entries is much easier for everyone.
TaggIIV 03-03-05, 04:50 PM	It does make sense for a testing viewpoint which I suppose that the COCO is... but.. I've also (and primarily) seen the COCO as a game. And allowing a character to just buy his way higher in the game seems wrong. I think there can be separate matches with whatever build you want, but they shouldnt be mingled in the same league as the rest. For example if 2 people want to test their level 15 builds but dont want to play for a year.. then say they find a pitlord who agrees to run their match. The build gets tested without interfering with the game that is LG. For example.. take the Harvester. Caterane spent a lot of time and effort to win those matches, and get to level 20. With this new method someone could just plop down a level 20 character without any effort.. (well, yes, the 60 or so pitlording matches was a lot of effort, but no game effort) a build could utterly suck and still get to high level with this method which i am not particularly fond of. lets say Bill and Joe make a level 3 PC. Bill made a really good build, and Joe's is mediocre-poor. Bill wins his matches, and Joe loses. But because Joe pitlords 1 match per week and spends a credit, his character advances even FASTER. edit: alright, my own idea. so credits can buy levels and xp, but not gold. gold gosta be earned. :p that leaves some incentive to not just cheat your way up the ladder (which is kinda what i consider it)
T'Var 03-03-05, 04:59 PM	lets say Bill and Joe make a level 3 PC. Bill made a really good build, and Joe's is mediocre-poor. Bill wins his matches, and Joe loses. But because Joe pitlords 1 match per week and spends a credit, his character advances even FASTER. while this is true Bill knows he has a more powerful build and his powerscore would prove his bragging rights. also while yes someone could drop the creds to make a 20th lvl it would have no sentimental value to is owner and thats where the CoCo has its fun.
Jindl 03-03-05, 05:09 PM	What you are failing to note is that at 1000 xp per credit, spending credits for levels becomes extraordinarily expensive at higher ECL's. It costs 19 credits to take an ECL 19 character to ECL 20. To go from ECl 15 to 20 costs 15+16+17+18+19 = 85 credits. I don't think we have to worry much about people "buying" their way up. At the most it will allow people who are a few hundred xp short of making the next level to spend a credit or two and go ahead and advance. PS: If characters in the old CoCo could buy levels, then not the high level ranks but the low level ranks would have been deserted. You don't get more characters with your suggestion; you just relocate them. I disagree. There will always be lots of low level characters. Its common for people to retire builds after a few matches, or start new builds, or just for new players to join with new pc's. This will definately not create a shortage of low level characters. But it may help the shortage of high level characters. Additional solutions would be that higher level gladiators can go on Quests or Campaigns, or we set up a special event for them. Don't forget that you can later fight PCs from different leagues, or mercenaries if no one else is available. Quests cost credits to participate, and haven't had the best success rate so far (with only 1 completed and 3 dropped...) Challenging other gladiators offers less rewards (either you win against a lower level, or lose against the higher level), and often results in multiple rematches. As for mercenaries, I am against them completely, whether as temporary allies, or as opponents. Especially as opponents, because there's no way a mercenary run by a pitlord can be an equivalent challenge compared to a PC with tactics desinged by the player who created them.
TaggIIV 03-03-05, 05:21 PM	3 dropped? ..Cedric isnt dead yet.. :p
Sindorin 03-03-05, 05:22 PM	Wow, I love this idea based on the fact that I RARELY use my credits for anything important. Usually I burn them in order to activate too many characters for my own good. Now I can just count one of my characters' matches per week as +1000 exp. We could RP this by saying, for instance, that our characters have side jobs, or are diplomats and such, and gain experience that way. EDIT: won't there be a slight imbalance due to the credits awarded, for example, to people who to administration and such? Cat's character, if he chooses, could rocket straight through the roof, possibly making one level per week for a time if he gets enough credits in one week and then wins his fight too... seems a lot like the old CoCo in that regard. I think the credit system would need a slight revision, there may need to be two types of credit. You guys might not see anything wrong with this, I just noticed that it seems a bit lopsided in favor of people who participate more than others.
Caterane 03-03-05, 08:16 PM	@Jindl: I am not worried about the higher levels. With 3 credits you can instantly level to Level 4. Another four credits and you are lvl 5. Considering that you can easily get 3 or even 4 credits a week with all the ways to earn credits and the ones you already have it shouldn't be difficult to keep up a steady progression of 1 level per week throughout the lower and perhaps even mid-levels. This completely circumvents the purpose of Living Gladius: much slower progression for extensive testing per level. If you want to test a certain level, pay the entry fee and start from there. Secondly, this metagame bumping robs something from the game. It is one thing if someone arrives new in Gladius being already lvl 5 (ie he bought his entry level) but keeping pace with the most successful characters - or even 'almost' - isn't very satisfying to those who actually played it up there. Thirdly, there is still the problem that your flat 1000/1000 doesn't work; neither does 1000/900 or Tagg's 1000/0 or any other fixed number. A complex system needs to be created that tracks every single deviation from the initial 1000/1000 transition from 3200 XP up to 190.000 XP at lvl 20. Last but not least... I don't think we have to worry much about people "buying" their way up. At the most it will allow people who are a few hundred xp short of making the next level to spend a credit or two and go ahead and advance. ...and this takes away some of the excitement of leveling. Instead of having to wait for the 24th to get your christmas presents, you can already open them on the 15th. @Sindorin: someone has hacked into your account and set this terrible jadegreen as default color to make all of us blind. We should ask WizO_Tech to repair it :D
Megrim_Lord 03-03-05, 09:11 PM	speaking of the credit system, theres nothing on it in the FAQ, so I assume that section is currently unfinished, but is there somewhere the basic information on it is kept?
Dalton Onestone 03-03-05, 09:15 PM	You are neglecting the run action. By running along a tangent to the "circle" formed by the center obstacle (a path which the persuer cannot follow), you "reset" the distance between the gladiators. I apologize for the error on the Readied action. I was quite sure I was right. As for the pursuit algorithm -- it is of course more complicated than I said, given all the obstacles. But there are multiple alleys for running. And I think, without being completely sure, that an algorithm could be designed that at a minimum would allow lots of AoOs if the pursuee took your approach, or Readied casts of short-range spells if that were the objective instead.
Dalton Onestone 03-03-05, 09:17 PM	so for most spells you would not need to. only if the spell requires a melee or ranged touch attack So you think a horse doesn't engage in "vigorous movement" if he attacks? Warhorses have all learned Tai Chi and only attack with graceful, flowing motions that don't cause their riders to need Concentration checks?
T'Var 03-03-05, 09:33 PM	So you think a horse doesn't engage in "vigorous movement" if he attacks? Warhorses have all learned Tai Chi and only attack with graceful, flowing motions that don't cause their riders to need Concentration checks? Dalton...i understand your upset about a fight last week But you try to speak to me like im some child and I will see you gone... Now as to your question. and as per game rules no. when you attack you dont MOVE unless you are charging...which would be a single or double move. the double MOVEMENT would cause a concentration check read the conversation in full before trying to make some half baked comment In the conversation we were having IF you would have READ it...it was about being able to Cast in the same round as the warhorse did without a ride check NOT a concentration check....
Dalton Onestone 03-03-05, 09:56 PM	Dalton...i understand your upset about a fight last week But you try to speak to me like im some child and I will see you gone... Now as to your question. and as per game rules no. when you attack you dont MOVE unless you are charging...which would be a single or double move. the double MOVEMENT would cause a concentration check read the conversation in full before trying to make some half baked comment In the conversation we were having IF you would have READ it...it was about being able to attack in the same round as the warhorse did without a ride check NOT a concentration check.... First of all, I am planning to be gone. You have the dubious honor of pitlording my last fight (tactics have been PMed, by the way). Second, the ORIGINAL question in the conversation, asked by ME, was about both Ride and Concentration checks.
Snommelp 03-04-05, 12:24 AM	Boys, boys, relax, please! I'm making the assumption that we're all more mature than my three year old cousin, so I would prefer it if our debates did not boil down to his "uh-uh! Yuh-HUH!" arguments. Part of the service that CoCo provides is an eventual complete understanding of the Core rules. I know that I still make mistakes about them from time to time. I do not expect anyone else to have a complete, fool-proof understanding of them either. What I do expect, however, is reasonable, intelligent discourse whenever there is a misunderstanding. Dalton, I understand you are upset with Cellardweller, but it seems rather juvenile to take the anger out on T'Var. T'Var, we all make mistakes, and as far as I know the question Dalton brought up is relatively fresh, so could you try to drop the condescending tone in your text?
spasheridan 03-04-05, 05:35 PM	New ? about readied actions: SO.. imagine 2 warriors, A and B. Both are mounted. A readies an action to occur when B takes an action. B's turn: B rides his horse (guide with knees, free action). Then B takes an action. Here's the question: 1) Can you interrupt a free action? (guide with knees) 2) If you can't interupt a free action, then the mounts movement is non-interuptable? 3) can A ready an action vs B taking an action? Does there have to be any more specific trigger to this? Can B do nothing to avoid having his action trigger A? If B readies an action, does this trigger A's ready? Can B now trump A's ready with his ready? My mind spins with readied actions.... Thanks!
Jindl 03-04-05, 05:46 PM	New ? about readied actions: SO.. imagine 2 warriors, A and B. Both are mounted. A readies an action to occur when B takes an action. B's turn: B rides his horse (guide with knees, free action). Then B takes an action. Here's the question: 1) Can you interrupt a free action? (guide with knees) 2) If you can't interupt a free action, then the mounts movement is non-interuptable? 3) can A ready an action vs B taking an action? Does there have to be any more specific trigger to this? Can B do nothing to avoid having his action trigger A? If B readies an action, does this trigger A's ready? Can B now trump A's ready with his ready? My mind spins with readied actions.... Thanks! You can interrupt the movement. I think we allow too much with readied actions. They are supposed to be fairly specific. So if the readied action was to attack "if my opponent moves" then sure, it would trigger when the mount moves. If the readied action was to attack "if my opponent casts" then it wouldn't trigger until the opponent casts. All in all, we should encourage readied actions to be a little more specific. Keep in mind that triggers for readied actions must be something that can be sensed. So if you can sense that your opponent is readying for you to act, and that was your triggering condition, then it could trigger your ready. Keep in mind that your readied action would then occur before your opponent set his ready, so your opponent would then remain readied until his readying condition was triggered by a later action. In other words, he set his ready after your readied action occured, so he has to wait until you trigger his ready with a future action. I also still bring up the point that after setting a readied action, you cannot take further actions (which includes guiding your own mount). So no more readied actions taken at the midpoint of your mount's movement to cast/shoot/etc at the end of the mount's movement. This is clear in the RAW.
Snommelp 03-04-05, 06:14 PM	It's not that I don't believe you Jindl (because I really want to believe you), but could you possibly provide a quote for that last bit? I can't find anything that says that readying ends your turn. EDIT: Nevermind, I found it. It's a bit hard to find in all of the text concerning readying, but it does indeed state quite clearly "any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to [the triggering] condition." So no more acting after you ready, hence readying ends your turn.
Jindl 03-04-05, 06:19 PM	It's not that I don't believe you Jindl (because I really want to believe you), but could you possibly provide a quote for that last bit? I can't find anything that says that readying ends your turn. EDIT: Nevermind, I found it. It's a bit hard to find in all of the text concerning readying, but it does indeed state quite clearly "any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to [the triggering] condition." So no more acting after you ready, hence readying ends your turn. Check the section where the Ready action is described in the PHB (pg 160). It's the first sentence ;) The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Since your turn is over, you cannot take free actions after you become ready. Since controlling your mount is a free action ... you get the idea.
Snommelp 03-04-05, 06:21 PM	That works, too. So first turn kills just became a lot harder, methinks.
spasheridan 03-04-05, 07:06 PM	More readied action ?s. So, say you have 2 combatants, Grak the warrior and Smarty the wizard. Say Grak readied an action vs spellcasting. If Grak has no ranks in spellcraft, how does he know that Smarty is actually casting a spell? PS- Since a readied aciton lasts until your next turn, would this be legal: 1) Grak readies to shoot his bow when Smarty casts a spell 2) Smarty, seeing that Grak has his bow trained on him, readies to cast a spell when Grak readies an action 3) Grak's turn shows up, Grak blinks and readies an action to shoot his bow when Smarty casts a spell. The readying of the ready becomes interupted bu the readied action and Smarty casts his spell before Grak can shoot him with his bow... OR.. can you maintain a readied action indefinitly?
Jindl 03-04-05, 07:14 PM	More readied action ?s. So, say you have 2 combatants, Grak the warrior and Smarty the wizard. Say Grak readied an action vs spellcasting. If Grak has no ranks in spellcraft, how does he know that Smarty is actually casting a spell? He doesn't. His ready would trigger when he thinks that Smarty is casting a spell. Here's a chance for sorceror's to use their one and only Cha based skill ... Bluff !! PS- Since a readied aciton lasts until your next turn, would this be legal: 1) Grak readies to shoot his bow when Smarty casts a spell 2) Smarty, seeing that Grak has his bow trained on him, readies to cast a spell when Grak readies an action 3) Grak's turn shows up, Grak blinks and readies an action to shoot his bow when Smarty casts a spell. The readying of the ready becomes interupted bu the readied action and Smarty casts his spell before Grak can shoot him with his bow... OR.. can you maintain a readied action indefinitly? Actually, that's perfectly legal. Readied actions must be renewed each round on your initiative. Of course, Smarty needs a way to sense that Grak is readying (and now he gets to use the opposite of bluff ... Sense Motive !!) One a side note ... how many times can one avatar appear on one page? Seriously, at first glance it looks like I'm talking to myself :D
Pitlords 03-04-05, 07:25 PM	From wednesday on there will be two new ways to spend your credits: You can pay credits to enter a fresh gladiator in a higher league just as LA creatures did all the time. Cost: You need to pay 4 credits per level above 3. You may challenge other gladiators. You need to make a post on the roleplay thread with a roleplaying reason, the other gladiator must accept the challenge, and both of you need to write "Challenges X" and "Challenge accepted" respectively, into the headline. Cost: you and the challenged one need to pay 1 credit in case of a succesful pairing. The challenger may take over the cost for the challenged one by paying two credits Comment: I thought some time about the buy XP system and decided against it for the reasons I mentioned. Still, Jindl's system has a point: additional ways to spend credits and the option to skip levels which are not interesting to your build. However, I am not convinced about the "XP for Creds" system. Instead I think buying complete levels (same like with Entry and LA levels) decreases the threat of bumping once in a while to an acceptable level though even this has yet to be playtested. In any case, this rule won't be active until later, for three reasons: we need to have opened up more leagues else it is pointless since there's only 1 league you can skip right now. Secondly, I don't want the current gladiators move unnaturally. But most importantly: I haven't figured out how to calculate the gained gold because everyone will bump from a different XP level. Ok, now we have a few more methods to spend credits though that is far from enough. Here's a list with the options: Have more than 2 characters active Enter a new character in a higher league than 3 Go on Quests Issue Challenges Additional ways will be: Go on a Campaign Go on a Special Event Multiplayer Quests Craft custom items Device custom spells Still, they're not as many as I like to see. Since I have a lot of university stuff to do these weeks and Ash is gone for some time, I have no time to start regulating campaigns and special events, or even finish the FAQ. The only thing we could possibly add to the list are custom items and spells. Here's the relevant part from the Reformations thread: You can now pay for the right to buy/craft custom items by paying credits. The Custom Item must follow a logical pattern, and must not break the balance of the game, but asides from that, there is no limit other than the players creativity. Custom Items will have a considerable credit price to ensure that having a custom item is something special indeed. Note that paying the credits does not free you from paying the correct gold price. An example of a custom item would be a headband of intellect and wisdom which combines the boost to two skills thus saving a slot. The second way to put your credits to good use is the creation of custom spells. As with custom items, custom spells must follow a logical pattern (as a template we would use existing spells) and they must be balanced and not game-breaking. If the latter seems to be the case after the spells has been used in a couple of fights, the player is advised to replace the spell with another one. Since custom spells are a more complicated matter than items, we would probably consult the Council of Elders before we approve individual spells. I want to ask all of you for your opinion what you think about custom things and how high the price should be. It definately needs to stay an exception to have custom items, and even more so - spells, so a high credit price should be in order. So far, I haven't thought about a concrete formula. Perhaps we can create one together. And finally, I want to ask all of you to help me in finding new ways to spend credits. If there is enough encouragement to earn credits (mostly through pitlording) we might even increase the number of free characters to 3, thus have much more characters active, more pairings, a bigger CoCo. Ok, your turn :) Edit: Here's my first suggestion: one negative credit for not finishing a fight on time. As it is now you only lose the credit you 'earned' for the non-finished fight for a net balance of +0 credits. This method increases the credit's worth a bit and might even increase the discipline to finish fights on time. There are currently six pitlords sitting out because of late penalties, who could - according to their <number> - moderate additional 12 fights! What about that: lose the one credit you (didn't) earn(ed), and -1 credit for posting after the deadline, and another -1 for not posting the fight at all. Therefore no two weeks probation anymore which - due to the lack of pitlords - hurts the CoCo more than the one who has to sit out. Thoughts?
Jindl 03-04-05, 08:00 PM	Re: Late Penalties I would suggest going to a -2 credits (meaning that you lose the one you would have earned plus one more) and only 1 week probation. I think the week of probation is important to prevent repeated lates, week after week. Re: Custom Items I think we would be entering into VERY dangerous ground here. At the most I would suggest only allowing the same standard items to be crafted for different item slots. For example: a Vest of Health (+2 Con) isn't too unbalancing. However, I think allowing "custom items" in terms of creating completely new items can really, really, really destroy the whole system. I also don't want the Elder's or the GM's to be responsible for deciding which new items to allow on a case by case basis. We are all prone to human error, and if just one bad item slips through, there will be consequences (either an unfair win, or a really upset player when we take the item away, or both = see Sindorin's Pegasus as an example). So I would consider allowing existing items to be made for a different item slot, but I would hold the customization there. Re: Custom Spells A custom spell is even more difficult to include in a balanced way than a custom item. There are, at least, some guidelines and costs for custom items. But custom spells are so hard to balance, especially without the ability to really playtest them. And given that one of the key purposes of the CoCo is to test builds that can be used in regular campaigns, I feel that I must point out that custom spells certainly defeat this purpose. I would recommend against ever incorporating custom spells. Its just too easy to come up with some seemingly innocuous custom spell that then gets twisted into a god awful creation that has to be banned, then resulting in lots of unhappy players, etc (and again with Sindorin's Pegasus). I really, really, just recommend against it. Re: Multiplayer Quests I think we should begin these soon. They are a great way to use credits, since you'll have 3 or more players paying credits to be involved in the quest, while only 1 player is recieving credits for running it. I would put a rule into effect saying that before you can questlord a multiplayer quest, you must successfully run a single player quest. That should ensure that multiplayer questlords are a bit more experienced and that the multiplayer quests will have a bit higher completion percentage. But I would love to see this option open soon. Even low level characters (or perhaps especially low level characters) enjoy adventuring in groups. Re: Challenges I think both players involved in a challenge should pay the 1 credit, not just the player who issued the challenge. That way its fair to both. Both players get the advantage of knowing who their opponent will be, so both should pay the cost. Since they are paying credits, I would change the priority in pairings to accomodate challenges as well (in the past, challenges were only allowed after the Does Not Fight Roll for uneven levels, and after making efforts to prevent rematches). This way, if players post RP and pay a credit each to set up a challenge, they are guaranteed to get it. I'd also like to suggest a new type of challenge: A True Death Challenge. The participants of a True Death Challenge are not ressurrected. That's right, you stay dead. For the winner, I would suggest a 50% higher reward for winning the fight. Plus, I think it has excellent RP potential for archenemies and such. For the loser, well you get to create a new character (possibly a friend/relative of the deceased who is bent on revenge ...) Anyway, those are my ideas/suggestions for now. What is that 5 x 2cp = $0.10 ??
spasheridan 03-04-05, 08:13 PM	Custom Items I would be all for creating some custom items. A very few however, here's my list: Staffs - The DMG guidelines seem perfect Wands, Potions, Scrolls - Again, these seem as flexible as you want Weapons & Armor - Already customizable per the DMG Universal- Moving items from slot to slot (boots to belt for example), combining pre-existing items (Gloves of Str & Dex maybe), and making better examples of what already exists (Ion stone of Con +4, Boots of Haste that last 20 rnds a day) all seem fine. . Continous spell effects should be banned on custom items. Spell completion items need to be very carefully monitored. Rings & Rods - I can't see a need for any new rings or rods, leave them as is.
TaggIIV 03-04-05, 08:58 PM	I like the idea of having a match where the stakes are higher rather than auto-restore everything! However, actual death I think is a bit extreme; especially in LG where levelling back up to where that character was would take a lot longer than in old COCO. Maybe another idea would be that the loser drops a level (also has to pay his opponent's winnings, the increased amount) this might lead to complications because its not an equal gold/xp loss for the loser, though... maybe each character putting up ante of gold or magic items beforehand to cover the gold/xp ratio in case he loses the match?
TaggIIV 03-04-05, 09:19 PM	Can animals coup-de-grace a sleeping character?
Huan 03-04-05, 09:32 PM	Can they? Of course. Will they? Depends. I very much doubt most non-predatory animals will go for a precise devasting attack like that, like a horse. Natural predators, though, I beleive it is feasible that they would go for a killing blow. However, since there are no rules governing this sort of thing, it is up to debate. My 2 copper pieces is that the animal would not feel so inclined to make a particulary precise blow, even if the opportunity is there. How many animals do you know will stop from devouring/crushing/destroying your helpless body immediately and normally, just so they can make a slow, deliberate kill? They are animlaistic with Int at or below 3, and should act accordingly. I would not beleive they could be pushed to CDG, either. However, I would believe that a smarter-than-usual beast, perhaps one with a higher Int, could be persuaded to CDG (if it understands you), or even contemplate the maneuver itself. But to answer your question, I would think no.
TaggIIV 03-04-05, 09:39 PM	Well, not just a regular animal, but a summoned one (via bag of tricks), which obeys whatever its summoner commands it to. What my question was, more accurately, was if the 2 int animal was able to physically/mentally commit such an action.
Huan 03-04-05, 09:47 PM	Well, not just a regular animal, but a summoned one (via bag of tricks), which obeys whatever its summoner commands it to. What my question was, more accurately, was if the 2 int animal was able to physically/mentally commit such an action. Well, it does not obey whatever its summoner commands it to. It is just a normal animal that will serve you, and happens to know all of the Handle Animal tricks. Again, yes, anyone with a lethal attack can CDG, so of course animals can physically commit the act. As for mentally, probably so, since there is no minimum Int requirement for CDGing. However, just because they can does not mean they will. (just like with grappling)
scaryfroman 03-05-05, 12:21 AM	Personally, I think that any low-level mage with sleep up every sleeve should have a scythe with them. A little morbid, but a lot easier than using your precious little familiar.
stinkygoblin 03-05-05, 02:44 AM	sorry one winged i saw the post finally..good story
spasheridan 03-05-05, 02:53 AM	Hey All- What happens if you're riding a horse and get hit with a hold person spell? Do you fall off the horse?
Snommelp 03-05-05, 03:45 AM	Hey All- What happens if you're riding a horse and get hit with a hold person spell? Do you fall off the horse? I'd make it a ride check, with no dexterity modifier (and perhaps without ranks either). I'm still shaky with mounts, though.
Caterane 03-05-05, 05:53 AM	Re: Late Penalties I would suggest going to a -2 credits (meaning that you lose the one you would have earned plus one more) and only 1 week probation. I think the week of probation is important to prevent repeated lates, week after week. I think we can deal with repeated late posters in another way, by talking to them, decreasing the number of fights, and if the problem persists, make them inactive. The credit loss should be encouragement not to post late too often. Not posting at all often goes along with not even informing us which prevents us to reassign the fight. Both characters effectively sit out a week. What do the others think? Re: Custom Items: As Jindl and Spash have pointed out, there are different levels of custom items. I came up with four categories: Expendable items that are not mentioned in the DMG. I don't think it will be unbalancing if we allow custom potions or custom wands. After all, the ones in the DMG are just examples and in no way better or worse than the same items made with other spells. The next level are permanent custom items but similar to existing ones. A headband of intellect+1 can't be problematic either nor should the usage of a different slot be (still using DMG,p288 as a guideline). Also, combined abilities like Gloves of str and dex which are of course also more expensive according to the DMG shouldn't unbalance anything and it is clearly core. To the third tier belong permanent items that are random but still more or less based on existing effects. A cap that gives +5 listen, a +2 keen Flametongue, a Ring of greater invisibility, or a staff made of different yet thematic spells, are all items that are easily calculatable and easily to assess. The last categorie are completely random items with effects that are neither mentioned as an example in the DMG nor easy to judge. These items create completely new effects. Example: Ring of shooting stars, Apparatus of Kwalish, or Rod of Wonder if they wouldn't be mentioned in the DMG. Level 1 and 2 are no doubt balanced, and can be easily integrated. Level 3 is also easy to assess. I don't intend on ever allowing the 4th level though and I think this is what Jindl is worried about. Multiplayer Quests: I agree that they should be enabled soon but the right now not even the 1 player Quests are working perfectly. Of the 4 Quests, only 1 had been completed, 2 aborted, and 1 is still late. A 5th Quest, Kaigan's, hasn't even begun yet despite it being saturday. I think we should first get these basic Quests working. However, once we begin extending the number of players I want to keep the advancement in check so I'd say we go with 2 players first, then 3, then 4 (the maximum). Death Matches: Hm, well, there's nothing that prevents us from giving characters the option to fight a deathmatch outside the Nimbus but I don't think that will get much fans. A slightly less lethal arena where you drop a level (including the gold loss) might be more attractive. If we do this I suggest to let the players run their characters on their own in a seperate thread, with one pitlord who makes the (online) rolls.
One_Winged_Angel 03-05-05, 09:56 AM	Hi, all. Hey, just something while we're discussing some fun ideas. Mystic and I got to talking, and we were wondering what would happen if Emad teamed up with Keth. Aside from degrade ourselves, we figured that we might actually have a chance in a 2 v. 2 fight. I think that running special 2v2 fights might be fun. The pitlord running it could get an extra cred for the complex system, the gladiators might have to spend some extra gold, or not gain as much XP, and I think it could be cool just to see a Fighter actually be used as a meatshield and a clerics as actual support casters. As to the ideas posted by Cat: Custom items: I say yah to 1-3. Those are fine as long as we make sure to check these items beforehand and perhaps get a price list. Number 4 I'm hesitant on. While they could be calculated, in theory of course, I don't know if I like the idea. Multiplay quests: I see no foreseeable issue with this. It is, in my mind, simply a smaller campaign with greater rewards. Deathmatch: Urm...Hmmm...Well, so long as this does not become the arena standard, why not? Then it simply becomes a risk vs. reward. I do think that greater benifits are needed if this happens. Otherwise, its just risk, no reward.
Jindl 03-05-05, 03:15 PM	Uhmentarymster the Old and Eniolissaryn the Elder are the only PC's capable of reaching 5th level this week, and then only if they win. I was just checking, and I realized that I neglected to mention 2 other characters who could reach ECL 5 this week. So, I'd like to point out now that both Flower (T'Var) and Rook “Chaotic Phoenix” Devange (Huan) could also both advance to ECL 5 this week, but only if they win. Good luck guys! -Jindl
TaggIIV 03-05-05, 03:58 PM	Can wilders learn disciplinary powers, or only the generic psion ones?
Kaigan 03-05-05, 04:11 PM	I was just checking, and I realized that I neglected to mention 2 other characters who could reach ECL 5 this week. So, I'd like to point out now that both Flower (T'Var) and Rook “Chaotic Phoenix” Devange (Huan) could also both advance to ECL 5 this week, but only if they win. Good luck guys! -Jindl Rayos could have also, but he's going on a quest.
Jindl 03-05-05, 04:52 PM	Rayos could have also, but he's going on a quest. Yes, I noticed that. I thought perhaps you would have waited until next level to begin the quest (since you cannot level up during a quest as all the encounters are the same day).
Jindl 03-05-05, 04:53 PM	Can wilders learn disciplinary powers, or only the generic psion ones? Generic only. They could take the Expanded Knowledge feat to learn one of the disciplinary powers or a power from the psychic warrior list.
Kaigan 03-05-05, 06:20 PM	Yes, I noticed that. I thought perhaps you would have waited until next level to begin the quest (since you cannot level up during a quest as all the encounters are the same day). I was thinking of it, and I wanted to but i was too busy to msg Huan, but i'm alright with it. I wanted Huan as a questlord cuz he is an awesome writer, rivaling even Cat. (Sorry Cat.) So I thought, lets be selfish. Lol.
xanadu 03-06-05, 12:19 AM	I've noticed everyone employs this into their tactics. Neat trick to gaina +4 AC. I am somewhat confused as how and when this can be done. It says using cover is a free action under the ride skill. Fair enough. Yet, it also says you can't attack or cast spells while using your mount as cover. I always interpreted this as something a horseman would do WHILE APPROACHING the enemy (say an archer for instance) - if he isn't using a lance or casting spells, it make sense he can present less of a target. However it seems like people are saying, "Single move here using mount as cover, then manifest/shoot/lance enemy, then use cover should the enemy counterattack." It certainly does seem as riders are [trying] using cover in the same round as attacking or casting a spell. If so, can someone please explain the can't cast spells or attack bit under the ride skill.
Snommelp 03-06-05, 12:26 AM	I've always seen the "using mount for cover" technique in my imagination as slipping down to the side of your horse, thus putting your horse between the enemy and yourself. If this interpretation is correct, the character would have to make a Ride check for "fast mount/dismount" in order to get back up as a free action. Unfortunately, though, the skill only says it's a free action to use your mount as cover; it doesn't say anything about ending the maneuver. In other news, I just noticed that the first draft of Flower vs. Aeluath was post 1337! w00t!
TaggIIV 03-06-05, 10:45 AM	How do I determine the damage for Huge and Gargantuan sized weapons? Namely, greataxe. Large is 3d6, do I just add a d6 per size category? Or does it also inrease a die size to something like 5d8
Jindl 03-06-05, 10:56 AM	How do I determine the damage for Huge and Gargantuan sized weapons? Namely, greataxe. Large is 3d6, do I just add a d6 per size category? Or does it also inrease a die size to something like 5d8 Use table 4-3 from the MM: Table 4-3: Increased Damage by Size Old Damage (Each)* New Damage 1d2 1d3 1d3 1d4 1d4 1d6 1d6 1d8 1d8 2d6 1d10 2d8 1d12 3d6 2d6 3d6 2d8 3d8 3d6 4d6 *- Repeat the adjustment if the creature moves up more than one size category. The table is missing the entry for 1d12 and for 3d6, which I have added in red. (The 1d12 -> 3d6 info can be found on the weapons chart which T'Var quoted. I'm not sure where the info on 3d6 -> 4d6 can be found in the SRD, but I know that is the correct conversion.) So, a 3d6 large weapon (greatsword) would become 4d6 when huge and 6d6 when gargantuan.
T'Var 03-06-05, 11:07 AM	Table: Tiny and Large Weapon Damage Medium Weapon Damage Tiny Weapon Damage Large Weapon Damage 1d2 — 1d3 1d3 1 1d4 1d4 1d2 1d6 1d6 1d3 1d8 1d8 1d4 2d6 1d10 1d6 2d8 1d12 1d8 3d6 2d4 1d4 2d6 2d6 1d8 3d6 2d8 1d10 3d8 2d10 2d6 4d8
Jindl 03-06-05, 11:12 AM	Table: Tiny and Large Weapon Damage I think he was asking for Huge and Gargantuan weapons, which aren't listed on the table... Notice also that this table is missing the entry for 3d6->4d6?
T'Var 03-06-05, 11:32 AM	I think he was asking for Huge and Gargantuan weapons, which aren't listed on the table... Notice also that this table is missing the entry for 3d6->4d6? thats right, that is the only listings that the SRD has and ya i noticed that there was no listed advencement for 3d6 just kinda redundent i suppose
spasheridan 03-06-05, 02:12 PM	I've noticed everyone employs this into their tactics. Neat trick to gaina +4 AC. I am somewhat confused as how and when this can be done. It says using cover is a free action under the ride skill. Fair enough. Yet, it also says you can't attack or cast spells while using your mount as cover. THe way I see the mount / cover issue is simple. While using a mount for cover you cannot attack / cast spells. Since this is usually on your opponents go, this simply prevents you from taking an AoO. If soeone attacks you on your turn (say, they get an AoO on you or have a readied action) you can give up your spell / attack for the cover if you want, but I probably wouldn't do that unless specificly instructed.
cellardweller 03-06-05, 09:45 PM	The only time you can't gain cover is at the exact moment that you are attacking or casting. You may still take AoO's on the same round that you use a horse for cover. About the only time you can't is against AoO's drawn by casting or attacking or against readied actions triggered by you casting or attacking. When using a Ride skill check to claim cover from your mount, exactly when do you start claiming cover from your mount? When must you stop claiming cover from your mount? The skill description says you react instantly to claim cover, and it doesn’t take an action. Does that mean you can do so anytime, even when it’s not your turn? The skill description says you can’t attack or cast spells while claiming cover. Why is that significant if you can claim cover anytime without using an action? You can make a Ride check to claim cover from your mount anytime, even when it’s not your turn. Make the check before your opponent makes his attack roll. If your check succeeds, you have cover against your opponent’s attacks. If several different opponents attack you during the same place in the initiative order, one Ride check determines if you have cover against all those attacks. If you’re attacked again, you must make another Ride check to claim cover again. You cannot claim cover while you’re casting a spell or making any kind of attack. So, for example, if you cast a spell while mounted, you can’t use your mount as cover against any attack of opportunity you might provoke. You also cannot claim cover from your mount while making a charge attack (not even during the movement portion of your charge).
Caterane 03-07-05, 05:11 AM	That's interesting. I would have bet that you wouldn't be able to attack for the whole round if you use the cover action. Seems like you can get a free +4 cover AC by making a DC 15 ride check, which will be automatic over time.
xanadu 03-07-05, 05:55 AM	That's interesting. I would have bet that you wouldn't be able to attack for the whole round if you use the cover action. Seems like you can get a free +4 cover AC by making a DC 15 ride check, which will be automatic over time. As did I but it looks like the FAQ says otherwise. Well I'm glad my guys have a high ride check :D
TaggIIV 03-07-05, 10:09 AM	If there are multiple possible augmentations of a power, would you get to choose which one you want to use with the additional pp on an increased ML powerstone? For example, expansion. Would an ML 3 stone last 3 rounds or 10 minutes?
Jindl 03-07-05, 10:31 AM	If there are multiple possible augmentations of a power, would you get to choose which one you want to use with the additional pp on an increased ML powerstone? For example, expansion. Would an ML 3 stone last 3 rounds or 10 minutes? You get to decide which augmentation you want to use for a powerstone as you use it.
Pittbull 03-07-05, 11:02 AM	Re: Late Penalties I would suggest going to a -2 credits (meaning that you lose the one you would have earned plus one more) and only 1 week probation. I think the week of probation is important to prevent repeated lates, week after week. That's a good idea! More credits, less probation is the right way. -2 is fair enough! Re: Custom Items Costum items--->yeah! But creating new items is too dangerous at the moment. I don't like it! Re: Custom Spells Even too dangerous for the balance!!! Re: Multiplayer Quests Cool, great idea! But let's wait a little until the single quests are working! Re: Challenges Nice, 1 credit isn't cheap, but worth!
Snommelp 03-07-05, 06:02 PM	Tremble, mortals, for Boriux is here! :D Anyone notice any problems?
Sindorin 03-07-05, 06:07 PM	wow, first we have Boraxx, then we have Borrix, now we have Boriux... interesting.
T'Var 03-07-05, 06:10 PM	Zactor (ECL3) is looking for a teammate for March 9 to challenge one of the ECL 5's we will have. any takers? and if so, any ECL 5's up to accepting?
Snommelp 03-07-05, 06:13 PM	@ Sindorin: if the name's all that bothers you, I'm in good shape! I can change that most easily, anyways.
Pitlords 03-07-05, 06:14 PM	Tremble, mortals, for Boriux is here! :D Anyone notice any problems? Boriux has been added to the Roster. Snommelp -8 credits. The level 5 league is the most exotic one we ever had. @Snommelp: If you could add a last name or make it otherwise slightly more distinguishable, that would be cool. But only if you don't mind.
Sindorin 03-07-05, 06:19 PM	@ Sindorin: if the name's all that bothers you, I'm in good shape! I can change that most easily, anyways. Nah, i actually like how it sounds somewhat draconic. Nicely done.
Dalton Onestone 03-07-05, 06:21 PM	Would any old-timer be able to fill me in as to the logic behind the ruling that a wizard can twin Shocking Grasp by using his familiar to deliver it too? As I read the SRD/PHB, the "Share spell" power is used for a spell the master would cast on HIMSELF, while the "Deliver touch spell" power let's him designate the familiar as THE toucher. So I absolutely don't see where this twinning comes from. I hope you can convince me this works, because it would be a great ability for low-level wizard characters, and I'm playing those in 3 different games.
T'Var 03-07-05, 06:37 PM	Would any old-timer be able to fill me in as to the logic behind the ruling that a wizard can twin Shocking Grasp by using his familiar to deliver it too? As I read the SRD/PHB, the "Share spell" power is used for a spell the master would cast on HIMSELF, while the "Deliver touch spell" power let's him designate the familiar as THE toucher. So I absolutely don't see where this twinning comes from. I hope you can convince me this works, because it would be a great ability for low-level wizard characters, and I'm playing those in 3 different games. give an example. where have you seen this in the CoCo
Snommelp 03-07-05, 06:45 PM	Boriux has been added to the Roster. Snommelp -8 credits. The level 5 league is the most exotic one we ever had. @Snommelp: If you could add a last name or make it otherwise slightly more distinguishable, that would be cool. But only if you don't mind. I'll try to think up a surname... it'll be hard to come up with a good one that isn't too cliche, though... you know, things like "Greenwing" and "Sharptalon." Maybe I'll just pull random letters out of my own name... EDIT: Boriux is now Boriux Lamech. Can anyone guess where I pulled that name from?
Dalton Onestone 03-07-05, 07:58 PM	give an example. where have you seen this in the CoCo Cellardweller used the rule in Kwerrock's much-argued last fight, and says that it's long-time standard practice. (In the last few posts of the Fights of February 24 thread.) While I may disagree with some of his rulings or tactical choices, I see no reason to doubt him when he makes a statement that sweeping about CoCo standard practice.
Snommelp 03-07-05, 08:06 PM	Dalton, I normally try not to choose sides, especially when I'm not directly involved in an altercation, but this Kwerrock business has gone on long enough in my opinion. I see two possible reasons that cellardweller told you that CoCo did things that way. One: he actually believes that to be the case. Two: he said it hoping you would finally stop arguing about a fight that he had rerun for your benefit twice already.
Dalton Onestone 03-07-05, 09:16 PM	Dalton, I normally try not to choose sides, especially when I'm not directly involved in an altercation, but this Kwerrock business has gone on long enough in my opinion. I see two possible reasons that cellardweller told you that CoCo did things that way. One: he actually believes that to be the case. Two: he said it hoping you would finally stop arguing about a fight that he had rerun for your benefit twice already. The reason I waited so long to bring it up was that I was afraid the question might be taken that way. And when I did bring it up I kept Cellardweller's name out of it until T'Var challenged me for specific evidence. But fine -- if we're all really in agreement on this rule, then there's no reason not to let the subject drop.
Dalton Onestone 03-07-05, 09:29 PM	Dalton, I normally try not to choose sides, especially when I'm not directly involved in an altercation, but this Kwerrock business has gone on long enough in my opinion. I'm not aware of anybody else who's been told around here that it's inappropriate to ask why certain decisions were made in a fight, nor to get second/third/fourth opinions on an odd-seeming rule interpretation. Yes, I've been told that no matter how many critical mistakes he makes, a pitlord doesn't need to rerun a fight if he doesn't feel like it; I've expressed my forceful opposition to that opinion; and there's no point in debating it further. But that's not the same thing.
cellardweller 03-07-05, 09:43 PM	Would any old-timer be able to fill me in as to the logic behind the ruling that a wizard can twin Shocking Grasp by using his familiar to deliver it too? As I read the SRD/PHB, the "Share spell" power is used for a spell the master would cast on HIMSELF, while the "Deliver touch spell" power let's him designate the familiar as THE toucher. So I absolutely don't see where this twinning comes from. I hope you can convince me this works, because it would be a great ability for low-level wizard characters, and I'm playing those in 3 different games. I already stated the logic for the ruling as I see it, I don't agree with the rule so I am probably not the best person to defend it. I'll leave it to one of the proponents to comment.
Dalton Onestone 03-07-05, 10:21 PM	I don't agree with the rule so I am probably not the best person to defend it. Fair enough!
Snommelp 03-07-05, 11:13 PM	I'm not aware of anybody else who's been told around here that it's inappropriate to ask why certain decisions were made in a fight, nor to get second/third/fourth opinions on an odd-seeming rule interpretation. Yes, I've been told that no matter how many critical mistakes he makes, a pitlord doesn't need to rerun a fight if he doesn't feel like it; I've expressed my forceful opposition to that opinion; and there's no point in debating it further. But that's not the same thing. As the quote from Socrates in my sig indicates, I happen to love reasonable discourse and debate. However, I believe that when someone has bent over backwards for you twice and you still complain about what they have done that you have left the realm of reasonable. You are right, though; you left cellardweller's name out of it until T'Var asked you for specifics. My apologies.
Snommelp 03-07-05, 11:29 PM	@ T'Var: Cedric's back, in case you still want a partner for Zactor to double-team a level 5 character.
Dalton Onestone 03-07-05, 11:32 PM	However, I believe that when someone has bent over backwards for you twice and you still complain about what they have done that you have left the realm of reasonable. Well, that is exactly the debate that's been beaten into the ground. However, your characterization of what happened is really extreme, leading me to think you may be forgetting the actual sequence of events, namely: 1. Cellardweller posts a relatively short version of the fight. My character wins. 2. Cat points out an error near the end that seems to lead to a reversal of the result. But I also point out a basic error (forgetting to use the luck reroll). 3. Cellardweller determines that the luck reroll succeeds, and hence reruns the fight. However, he uses a CL9 MM scroll that Cat's character didn't actually have. Cat points out this error before I ever notice it. 4. He runs the fight a third time. I complain about a multitude of apparent errors, most of which indeed turn out to be real. (Not all, as per the example I gave a bit above about Readying a move.) Most people, you included, nonetheless think I'm being way too harsh and demanding in thinking that something should be done about them. As I said, the debate about my opinion has been beaten into the ground,with the point of agreement being that if I insist on using characters and tactics too complicated for the pitlords then it's unlikely there will be an outcome satisfactory to all concerned.
Snommelp 03-08-05, 12:03 AM	Fair enough; I do happen to have a tendency to forget things (as noted in the fights I run where Flower is fighting). I may perhaps have been too harsh on you. However, I do have the relatively unique perspective of being a pitlord myself, and I can tell you this much: running a fight more than once is taxing mentally. I can only imagine how taxing it would be to run a fight three times, not to mention the four you wanted. One thing I do know is that, the more exhausted a mind or body gets, the more prone it is to make mistakes. I have experienced this myself many times in many venues. I can tell you that, if cellardweller had run the fight for a fourth time, the fact that he was so mentally strained probably would have led to at least as many mistakes as you pointed out in the third incarnation of the fight. Despite the tone I may have been using recently, I will be sorry to see you go. However, since your characters require tactical flexibility that cannot be attained here, perhaps you are better off if you take them to a live "fight club" of sorts with your own gaming group.
Snommelp 03-08-05, 12:13 AM	And now for something completely different: I have two questions which are pretty important for Boriux the pseudodragon. Firstly: elves are immune to magical sleep. I believe that a pseudodragon's poison is natural, and so can get around this. Am I correct? Secondly: psionics are fully transparent with magic. Does this mean that Spell Resistance works against psionics?
Sindorin 03-08-05, 12:18 AM	Elves are not immune to the pdragon's poison because it is not magical. By rule of precedent I believe that Boriux's SR counts for both magic and psionic effects - just look at the recent fight between Va'ria and Jannelle, where Va'ria's magic missile has to make a roll to beat Jannelle's PR. You are correct on both terms.
Snommelp 03-08-05, 12:23 AM	Excellent... that gives B a fighting chance against two of the three characters that actually worked their way to the fifth level, both of whom are elves and combination psions/mages. Zaqh'Sol could be a problem... but I'm sure I'll think of something.
Huan 03-08-05, 12:34 AM	Yeah, that lvl 5 league looks rough. Amazing how quickly we got down to single digit fighters in there... half of whom are starting out at ECL 5.
Jindl 03-08-05, 12:48 AM	Yeah, that lvl 5 league looks rough. Amazing how quickly we got down to single digit fighters in there... half of whom are starting out at ECL 5. Oohh, look at all the 1 and 2 HD opponents. Hahaha!!
spasheridan 03-08-05, 12:49 AM	Give it a few weeks and there will be a posey of ECL 5 fools. And, Dalton, pitlord a few matches and your tolerance for small errors will increase dramaticly! You'll also learn how to write good tactics and see the kinds of problems running matches can be. It can be really tough... and then you notice you made a mistake in rnd 2 and you have to throw 2 hours of work away... it's annoying!
Dalton Onestone 03-08-05, 01:19 AM	Thanks, Spasheridan, but you're late to the discussion. I've conceded that major improvements to pitlording aren't realistic, because of the time required to do it. However, to my personal tastes the inevitable pitlording problems take the fun out of things, because my characters don't act the way I envision them acting. So it's not a fun RP experience for me, or really an RP experience at all. As for any counter along the lines of "Write your tactics more clearly and that problem wouldn't exist" -- I'm sorry, but that discussion has been done to death already. The problem isn't bad writing -- I write professionally, and make a half-decent living doing so. The problem is the actual complexity of my tactics, and I'm unwilling to compromise further on those than I already tried doing. The root problem here, other than my temper, is the fact that I really only enjoy highly complex characters with inherently complex tactics. I defy you to write concise tactics for a character who likes to Hold Person/CdG AND likes to make lance charges AND grapples quite well AND uses debuffs such as Silence and Doom AND likes to use True Strike to overcome high ACs AND can beat many gladiators at straight melee AND likes to defend with Mirror Image against targeted spellls and ranged attacks and melee attacks AND has a luck reroll to change the odds in many situations from what people instinctively think they are AND has unusually high saves WHICH he can raise even higher through buffs AND has Deflect Arrows to defend against ranged attacks AND has access to both divine and arcane specialized buffs such as Resist Energy and See Invisibility AND has access to Summon spells ... and that's not even a complete list.
spasheridan 03-08-05, 02:00 AM	@dalton- not late, just been quite. Actually, I don't see a problem writing tactics for a PC like you described. See, in any given battle you have 2, maybe 3 offensive phases. When you write your tactics you need to choose what offense you will take. You can see your opponent before the match and you can tell what his options are so you can tell what your best offense will be. You can tell which of your offenses he can set a hard counter to so you can either ignore them or toss in caveats like: - if he casts protection from arrows stop using the bow and... or - if he becomes invisible use see invisibility... You'll only need a few of these because your opponent only has a few options that you need to defend against. Also, you know your own defenses and you know what order to put them up in. I generally start with the highest AC boosters and move on from there for my buffs, but you can put caveats in there as well- - if he casts summon X then I use a protection from evil or - if he starts shooting me with arrows (and hitting) cast protection from arrows. Again, you only need a handful of these caveats as well because you only have a handful of defenses you can use. Anywho, I'll stick with my claim that spending a few hours pitlording fights would help you get a feel for what you CAN do and how to maximize your enjoyment.
Dalton Onestone 03-08-05, 02:41 AM	Not that simple, Spasheridan -- it also depends on HP and so on. And even on which of your defenses fizzled due to having the spell interrupted and missing the concentration check (a huge issue in Kwerrock's last fight, although that's probably my fault for not bringing more cheap scrolls of Shield). And, since I'm so big on Mirror Image, even on how many Images are still up. It also depends on guessing the pitlord's views on things. For example, in Kwerrock's last fight Uhme used three different kinds of attack that many pitlords would agree were impossible by the rules -- bowshots that I still think would have been stopped by Deflect Arrows; twinned Shocking Grasp (discussed earlier in this thread); and falling damage from Sleep that makes horses fall down (regarded as impossible when I raised it weeks ago in this thread). How could I put in tactics to account for those and many similar contingencies without irritating the pitlords who would agree they were impossible? Suggesting I read the pitlord's prior fights to see his views on specific issues wouldn't really work; those are all pretty specialized issues which wouldn't come up very often.
spasheridan 03-08-05, 02:49 AM	As pitlord I chat with my players if they send me tactics that I disagree with rules wise. As a player I ask my pitlords their views on certain rules when figuring out my tactics. But now you're playing a bait and switch game. 1st you talk about tactics issues then you move to your gripe with how pitlords run their match. It's 2 differant stories. For issue 1, a few more matches and some experience pitlording will help you make concise tactics that are understood by everyone. For issue 2, another month or so and the pitlords will be experts at it and the CoCo will have it's major rules issues ironed out.
Dalton Onestone 03-08-05, 03:46 AM	Spasheridan, Thanks for the conversation, and I hope CoCo continues to be fun for you!! T'Var posted the results of my last fight, and I'm out.
Dalton Onestone 03-08-05, 03:47 AM	@cat, You probably should take down my picture and birthday now. Thanks for everything!!!
Pitlords 03-08-05, 06:31 AM	@cat, You probably should take down my picture and birthday now. Thanks for everything!!! Then I would just have to put it up again when you come back. But even if not, we don't remove the pictures in order to keep our deceased members fresh in our minds. And I'll write you a birthday PM. Late fights: MysticMonk2005 is back in the negative again :ahem: @TaggIIV: don't forget to complete your Questlog
T'Var 03-08-05, 08:19 AM	@ T'Var: Cedric's back, in case you still want a partner for Zactor to double-team a level 5 character. sounds good, now then are there any ECL5's who are up to a 2 ECL 3s on 1 ECL 5 fight?
One_Winged_Angel 03-08-05, 09:41 AM	Late fights: MysticMonk2005 is back in the negative again :ahem: Now I shall begin in my ritualistic taunting. I thought we were eliminating negative creds?
Huan 03-08-05, 09:53 AM	sounds good, now then are there any ECL5's who are up to a 2 ECL 3s on 1 ECL 5 fight? Hmm ... sounds interesting ... I think I would like to pit Rook vs the team-up of Zactor & Cedric, if that's possible.
T'Var 03-08-05, 09:58 AM	Hmm ... sounds interesting ... I think I would like to pit Rook vs the team-up of Zactor & Cedric, if that's possible. Zactor accepts. Cedric?
TaggIIV 03-08-05, 10:20 AM	I'm thinking of putting Zaqh'sol on a quest next week, are there any 'lords around accepting participants?
Snommelp 03-08-05, 04:39 PM	Zactor accepts. Cedric? Gladly gladly. It'll be interesting writing up tactics, though... if I had an Instant Messenger prorgam on this computer, I would suggest we meet and discuss, but guess we'll just have to use PMs instead.
KerlanRayne 03-08-05, 05:38 PM	Gladly gladly. It'll be interesting writing up tactics, though... if I had an Instant Messenger prorgam on this computer, I would suggest we meet and discuss, but guess we'll just have to use PMs instead.If you use AIM you can do it online without the software. Just use AIM Express (http://www.aim.com/get_aim/express/aim_expr.adp). Works like webmail excep for Instant Messaging. KerlanRayne
T'Var 03-08-05, 05:41 PM	If you use AIM you can do it online without the software. Just use AIM Express (http://www.aim.com/get_aim/express/aim_expr.adp). Works like webmail excep for Instant Messaging. KerlanRayne lol yup i just got done pming him the same link
Snommelp 03-08-05, 05:42 PM	Thanks to both of you. I'm having a bit of password trouble, but should be able to get on AIM soon.
TaggIIV 03-08-05, 09:15 PM	I've decided to elaborate more on what exactly I want to quest for... Zaqh'sol recently underwent a rebirth of the mind, including the discovery of before-hidden knowledge of powers to change reality with internal will. With this reconstruction of the mind, resurfaced forgotten memories of Nalfe'shanath, a legendary brass dragon spoken of by his father. He is inspired to head to one of the southern deserts and search for a weapon said to be made from one of Nalfe'shanath's ultrahard talons. (+1 adamantine halberd) Anyone inspired to take this?
Arstimis 03-08-05, 09:25 PM	Kara De'something has been replaced by my new character..and one of a kind...a rogue En'Sidious Nyte (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5464157)
MysticMonk2005 03-08-05, 09:41 PM	First, I would like to appologize for having the fight so late. for a powerstone with ML7 ego whip(3pp, 4pp to aug for +1d4 cha dmg) i can't figure out the DC, also in tactics sindorin said 3d4. shouldn't a ML7 only be able to aug. once?
Jindl 03-08-05, 09:53 PM	First, I would like to appologize for having the fight so late. for a powerstone with ML7 ego whip(3pp, 4pp to aug for +1d4 cha dmg) i can't figure out the DC, also in tactics sindorin said 3d4. shouldn't a ML7 only be able to aug. once? Yes, it is only augmented once. (7 pps = 2d4 Cha, Will DC 15 half.) The DC = 10 +2 power level +1 attribute of 12 +2 augmented = 15.
OdinTheReaper 03-08-05, 10:51 PM	Question: I need a good vigor powerstone for Vyncent...the tattoo is just not doing the job....can anyone recommend one for me? Also how much does the ML9 powerstone of vigor cost and does it give 40 hp?
Jindl 03-08-05, 10:53 PM	Question: I need a good vigor powerstone for Vyncent...the tattoo is just not doing the job....can anyone recommend one for me? Also how much does the ML9 powerstone of vigor cost and does it give 40 hp? 225 gp, +45 temp hps. But you must succeed at a ML check vs DC 10.
OdinTheReaper 03-08-05, 10:54 PM	Oh ok...thanks alot... EDIT: When are pairings?
Jindl 03-08-05, 10:55 PM	Oh ok...thanks alot... EDIT: When are pairings? Wednesday at 9 PM GMT... (that's 4 PM EST).
spasheridan 03-09-05, 12:59 AM	I was curious why potions are restricted to only what you can find in the DMG but scrolls are available at any caster level and for any spell you would want. I can't seem to find much differance between a potion of shield and a scroll of shield except one can be used by Wizards and the other can be used by anyone... Tks!
cellardweller 03-09-05, 01:54 AM	In the early days some potions were seen as overpowered (shield is the only one that stuck in my mind). The CoCo environment has changed significantly since those days (Psionics, allies, Scroll CL abuse), and the issue is due for another debate.
xanadu 03-09-05, 01:56 AM	IIRC, you can't brew a potion with a range of "you". Stuff like true strike, false life, shield, divine favor, etc., need scrolls and wands.
cellardweller 03-09-05, 02:17 AM	The closest I can find to that is that it must target one or more creatures (which debatably exclues self).
spasheridan 03-09-05, 02:18 AM	In the early days some potions were seen as overpowered (shield is the only one that stuck in my mind). The CoCo environment has changed significantly since those days (Psionics, allies, Scroll CL abuse), and the issue is due for another debate. Shield is definitly a powerful potion for an arena match VS someone with magic missiles, and I can see some others being problematic (true strike jumps out at me first) but with no restrcitions on tattoos / stones / scrolls the restiction on potions seems arbitrary to me. IIRC, you can't brew a potion with a range of "you". Stuff like true strike, false life, shield, divine favor, etc., need scrolls and wands. You can create a potion of any 3rd-level or lower spell that you know and that targets one or more creatures. Brewing a potion takes one day. When you create a potion, you set the caster level, which must be sufficient to cast the spell in question and no higher than your own level. The base price of a potion is its spell level x its caster level x 50 gp. To brew a potion, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one half this base price. Looks like you can make just about anything other than fireballs into a potion...
cellardweller 03-09-05, 02:26 AM	Looking through the list in the srd, not one of them have a range of self so Xanadu may be right (I just can't find a specific rule to back him up).
spasheridan 03-09-05, 02:45 AM	Hrm. Looks like yer right, self (personel) may not be a single creature. It kinda is... but it is debatble. THen again, you can get oils of magic weapon. But, the oil is core and the potion isn't...
Pitlords 03-09-05, 08:36 AM	I'm thinking of putting Zaqh'sol on a quest next week, are there any 'lords around accepting participants? @T'Var: You offered to run a Quest some time ago. Do you want to take this one? If yes, are you able to run it this week or do you need another week for preparation?
T'Var 03-09-05, 08:46 AM	@T'Var: You offered to run a Quest some time ago. Do you want to take this one? If yes, are you able to run it this week or do you need another week for preparation? That would be an ECL 4 quest ya i can toss that together for this week pm me with how much gp it will be worth and other relevent info
OdinTheReaper 03-09-05, 09:53 AM	So im basically understading that a protection from good, evil, etc... potion is much like a shield of faith except it gives +2 to saves along with its ac bonus and its special resistance if you will, to summons?
Jindl 03-09-05, 10:09 AM	So im basically understading that a protection from good, evil, etc... potion is much like a shield of faith except it gives +2 to saves along with its ac bonus and its special resistance if you will, to summons? Both the +2 deflection bonus to AC and the +2 resistance bonus to saves only apply against the alingment you are protected from. So buy a potion for each alignment. Then if your opponent is evil, drink the potion: protection from evil and you'll gain a +2 ac, and a +2 to saves. The third use of the potion is to protect you from summons. A protection from good prevents non-evil summoned creatures from using their natural attacks against you. A protection from evil protects against non-good summoned creatures, and etc. So when facing a summoner, the protection from <alignment> potions can be very effective.
Sindorin 03-09-05, 11:35 AM	It's time once again for Sindorin's Silly Questions! This may have been discussed before... but... The Nymph has a supernatural ability called Unearthly Grace. This ability adds her charisma modifier to her AC, Touch AC, and Saves. My question is this: If a nymph takes two levels of Paladin and gains Divine Grace, does Divine grace stack with Unearthly grace to add her charisma modifier to her saves twice?
T'Var 03-09-05, 11:38 AM	It's time once again for Sindorin's Silly Questions! This may have been discussed before... but... The Nymph has a supernatural ability called Unearthly Grace. This ability adds her charisma modifier to her AC, Touch AC, and Saves. My question is this: If a nymph takes two levels of Paladin and gains Divine Grace, does Divine grace stack with Unearthly grace to add her charisma modifier to her saves twice? they are both undeclared bonuses so yes they stack
Sindorin 03-09-05, 11:56 AM	they are both undeclared bonuses so yes they stack That's pretty cool. Not like anyone will be able to play one for a while though...
spasheridan 03-09-05, 06:49 PM	Hey Folks- So, imagine you were a ranger, a sneaky ranger, and had a wand of entangle. If you had hidden yourself somewhere in the ring, and used this wand of entangle, what would the effect of this be on your hide? Do you have to do a move silent as well? Is it like sniping? Entangle doesn't shoot out bolts or arrows so I wouldn't think so... Thanks!
cellardweller 03-09-05, 11:58 PM	If your hiding position has complete cover from your opponent (ie you don't center it on them) no hide is required. Technically you get a free listen check each round so a MS is always required but most pitlords (at least me) skip this unless there is at least a possiblity of it making a difference. If complete cover doesn't exist, I beleive that this falls under the "hide while observed" rule (ie opposed bluff followed by hide at -10) . I know jindl doesn't agree and is of the opinion that sniping covers this too (ie hide at -20).
Jindl 03-10-05, 01:07 AM	If your hiding position has complete cover from your opponent (ie you don't center it on them) no hide is required. Technically you get a free listen check each round so a MS is always required but most pitlords (at least me) skip this unless there is at least a possiblity of it making a difference. If complete cover doesn't exist, I beleive that this falls under the "hide while observed" rule (ie opposed bluff followed by hide at -10) . I know jindl doesn't agree and is of the opinion that sniping covers this too (ie hide at -20). Entangle is an attack, as defined by the invisibility test (ie. if it would end your invisibility spell, it is an attack). It is also, obviously, a ranged attack. So yes, it falls under sniping, just like any other ranged attack. Of course, sniping is irrelevant if you have total cover (since there is no LOS anyway). Hide while observed means your opponent has already spotted you. This would come into effect after your failed your hide check while sniping. Of course, the bluff would likely be the following round, since activating the wand used your standard action and sniping used your move action. Something else to mention, all wands require a command word to activate. So your foe would get a Listen check (modified by distance) vs DC 0 to hear you. Margin of success will, of course, determine how accurately they can locate you (succeeding by 20 will pinpoint). But since entangle is a long range spell, you'll probably be okay. -Jindl
cellardweller 03-10-05, 01:17 AM	Entangle is an attack, as defined by the invisibility test (ie. if it would end your invisibility spell, it is an attack). It is also, obviously, a ranged attack. So yes, it falls under sniping, just like any other ranged attack. Of course, sniping is irrelevant if you have total cover (since there is no LOS anyway). Conceded.
OdinTheReaper 03-10-05, 01:19 AM	Its time for silly questions with Odin...i think we went over this too.....Can you force feed your horse lets just say a potion of fly....i dont think so but maybe you could slip it in his oats or something..?
Snommelp 03-10-05, 01:21 AM	Its time for silly questions with Odin...i think we went over this too.....Can you force feed your horse lets just say a potion of fly....i dont think so but maybe you could slip it in his oats or something..? From what Cat has told me, force-feeding a potion to your mount is a full-round action which provokes an Attack of Opportunity, and you need to succeed at a DC 25 Handle Animal check. I think. The DC may be a bit off...
OdinTheReaper 03-10-05, 01:23 AM	wow.........i was just being silly...do provoke the attack from your horse because he is mad that you are shoveing something in his mouth? Also if your horse/mount is affected by fly....im assuming you can ride him in the air as well...? This really doesnt have to do with anything im just very curious...:D.
Snommelp 03-10-05, 01:51 AM	Well, the reason Cat told me this is because in Cedric's quest I considered force-feeding his horse a healing potion. Same rules should apply. And I'm guessing you can ride a flying mount, although your horse might have a bit of trouble grasping the concept of flight. What would be more fun would be to force-feed your horse a potion of invisibility. Don't drink one for yourself, just feed one to the horse. Now that's a scary sight!
xanadu 03-10-05, 01:52 AM	DMG pg 286. "Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into poitions, so spells such as shield never exist in potion form" Different from tatoos, but thems the rules.
Caterane 03-10-05, 06:06 AM	Flying horse: see Airwalk spell description for guidelines.
Jindl 03-10-05, 09:37 AM	@T'Var + TaggIIV - Just wanted to point out 2 things about Zaqh'sol's Quest. 1. Since he was mounted when the fight began (at the start of the surprise round), his mount should share his initiative. 2. You cannot use multiple natural attacks in a grapple. See the Rake description in the MM Glossary (pg 313-314). Rake (ex): A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks when it grapples its foe. Normally, a monster can attack with only one of its natural weapons while grappling, but a monster with the rake ability usually gains two additional claw attacks that it can use against a grappled foe... -Jindl
T'Var 03-10-05, 10:00 AM	@T'Var + TaggIIV - Just wanted to point out 2 things about Zaqh'sol's Quest. 1. Since he was mounted when the fight began (at the start of the surprise round), his mount should share his initiative. 2. You cannot use multiple natural attacks in a grapple. See the Rake description in the MM Glossary (pg 313-314). -Jindl on the first I agree, and it is being changed on the second TaggIIV is correct. in Rules of the Game All about Grappling 2 it clearly states multi-natural weapons can be used in a grapple with -4 to all attacks
Huan 03-10-05, 10:05 AM	From what Cat has told me, force-feeding a potion to your mount is a full-round action which provokes an Attack of Opportunity, and you need to succeed at a DC 25 Handle Animal check. I think. The DC may be a bit off... It just goes to show, you can bring the potion to the horse, but you can't make him drink it. ;) I would venture a guess this DC is stemming from the action of '"pushing" the horse to perform the action of drinking the potion (something it can physically do [albeit with help], but does not do naturally).
OdinTheReaper 03-10-05, 02:40 PM	Flying horse: see Airwalk spell description for guidelines. Oh ok i see...thanks cat
TaggIIV 03-10-05, 04:33 PM	Hm. Few questions that may directly affect Zaqh'sol's life. :p 1: Can horses join grapples. 2: If above answer is yes, what would happen 3: Can a breath weapon be used in a grapple, and at what if any consequence 4: What is the % the horse would hit the wrong person if attacking. (keeping in mind the scorpion is 4x larger of a target. 3 spaces are unoccupied by Zaqh, if it matters any)
T'Var 03-10-05, 04:36 PM	Hm. Few questions that may directly affect Zaqh'sol's life. :p 1: Can horses join grapples. 2: If above answer is yes, what would happen 3: Can a breath weapon be used in a grapple, and at what if any consequence 4: What is the % the horse would hit the wrong person if attacking. (keeping in mind the scorpion is 4x larger of a target. 3 spaces are unoccupied by Zaqh, if it matters any) 1) I could but it would require a handle animal Push DC 20, 2) it would have to make all normal rolls for joining a grapple 3) yes it can no negitive consequence just aim away from the horse heh 4) 0% miss chance for melee attacks into a grapple
Jindl 03-10-05, 05:42 PM	on the second TaggIIV is correct. in Rules of the Game All about Grappling 2 it clearly states multi-natural weapons can be used in a grapple with -4 to all attacks That's good to know (what with wildshape only 1 successful encounter away for JotHF)... Still, I don't like it when the Rules of the Game turn around and directly contradict the Core Rules... 3: Can a breath weapon be used in a grapple, and at what if any consequence? You can easily use supernatural abilities within a grapple. Since a breath weapon is an area effect, it is important to realize that you share that area with your foe. However, since a half-dragon is immune to its own breath weapon, that shouldn't pose a problem for you. -Jindl
Iced 03-10-05, 08:23 PM	Can you use the improved trip feat with a spiked chain from horseback?
T'Var 03-10-05, 08:58 PM	Can you use the improved trip feat with a spiked chain from horseback? simple answer-Yes Complex answer-still just yes, the feat doesnt require you to be on your own feet or in any situation as long as you can strike your foe you can use the feat
Snommelp 03-11-05, 01:40 AM	I'm wondering: how much exactly does the swan boat from a feather token weigh? It can carry up to 32 people, so it should probably weigh a lot more than a 100 pound rowboat, which can carry two or three people.
cellardweller 03-11-05, 01:45 AM	I'll answer the implied question - major creation is a conjuration spell, and therefore the object it conjures "must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it". You can't drop a boat on someone's head.
Snommelp 03-11-05, 01:54 AM	Curses! Well, at least I can sell them unused for full value...
Pittbull 03-11-05, 03:18 AM	simple answer-Yes Complex answer-still just yes, the feat doesnt require you to be on your own feet or in any situation as long as you can strike your foe you can use the feat Don't forget, the horse can "aid"! Gives you a +2!
T'Var 03-11-05, 05:06 AM	Don't forget, the horse can "aid"! Gives you a +2! to aid trip would require a handle animal Push check dc20 wouldnt be time effective since it would take a standerd action to make a attack but a full round action to push the animal into helping
Pittbull 03-11-05, 08:28 AM	Then teach it the trick, then no push is necessary.
Caterane 03-11-05, 02:12 PM	@Jindl/Arti and all: If possible try to post the complete version of the fight. That is easier for me than always backtracking. Use a word document or something if you can't complete it all at once. If definately not possible you can of course run it in intervals on the fights thread but that should only be done if there are no alternatives. Thanks for understanding
Jindl 03-11-05, 02:19 PM	@Jindl/Arti and all: If possible try to post the complete version of the fight. That is easier for me than always backtracking. Use a word document or something if you can't complete it all at once. If definately not possible you can of course run it in intervals on the fights thread but that should only be done if there are no alternatives. Thanks for understanding I will notify you (via PM) and post w/ link on the FotW thread when the fight is completed (so that you don't have to keep backtracking.)
Caterane 03-11-05, 02:24 PM	That works of course (although if that becomes more frequent someone might forget sending a PM to the Pitlords Account and I still have to backtrack just to be sure)
Arstimis 03-11-05, 03:22 PM	@Jindl/Arti and all: If possible try to post the complete version of the fight. That is easier for me than always backtracking. Use a word document or something if you can't complete it all at once. If definately not possible you can of course run it in intervals on the fights thread but that should only be done if there are no alternatives. Thanks for understanding Ok, that will be no problem. I used to use a word document, but saw Jindl doing that and thought it might be cool for the gladiators to see how thier fight is progressing. I always post the link to the fight when it is done in the Fights of the Week thread when it is done, and I will send you a PM if you want, so there would be no problem with backtracking Edit: Heh, I posted this and didnt even see Jindl's. I guess great minds do think alike...or lesser minds follow in the footsteps of great minds.
Megrim_Lord 03-11-05, 03:38 PM	Both the +2 deflection bonus to AC and the +2 resistance bonus to saves only apply against the alingment you are protected from. So buy a potion for each alignment. Then if your opponent is evil, drink the potion: protection from evil and you'll gain a +2 ac, and a +2 to saves. The third use of the potion is to protect you from summons. A protection from good prevents non-evil summoned creatures from using their natural attacks against you. A protection from evil protects against non-good summoned creatures, and etc. So when facing a summoner, the protection from <alignment> potions can be very effective. curiosity, unless you have a detect spell at the ready, how do you know which potion to drink?
Snommelp 03-11-05, 03:44 PM	curiosity, unless you have a detect spell at the ready, how do you know which potion to drink? If you mean against your opponent, it's assumed that you gather information about them before the fight (which is why you're allowed to see their character sheet). If you mean against summoned monsters, you don't. However, most summoners seem to be druids, and most things druids summon are True Neutral, so any protection potion will work.
Pitlords 03-11-05, 03:50 PM	A picture of Padawan Khaz_Gu (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4034178#post4034178) has been added to the World Thread. May the Force be with us That's also the time to remind all of you that you can always send a puicture to me. We'd love to have it up.
Snommelp 03-11-05, 05:15 PM	I am at a point in Telnith vs. Gabriel where it is very important that one character can see the other. They are at 180 feet distance, but neither is hiding. Before I roll the spot check, I wanted to come here and verify that it was necessary.
spasheridan 03-11-05, 05:41 PM	I would imagine it's trivial to see a non-hiding person in the arena
Snommelp 03-11-05, 05:59 PM	I would imagine it's trivial to see a non-hiding person in the arena I suppose, but then again I have made distance based spot checks in the past and nobody has said anything. On the other hand, the gladiators had always passed these checks before...
T'Var 03-11-05, 06:13 PM	I suppose, but then again I have made distance based spot checks in the past and nobody has said anything. On the other hand, the gladiators had always passed these checks before... if noone is activly hiding spot checks are not needed as long as there is LOS
Snommelp 03-11-05, 06:14 PM	Thanks. That cuts an extra round from the fight, and will save me time in future fights.
TaggIIV 03-12-05, 03:31 PM	Its funny reading Wrath of the Faithful.. its like battle of the formatters... obscure boards functions, flashy colors, and graphics abroad. :p
Huan 03-12-05, 04:53 PM	Its funny reading Wrath of the Faithful.. its like battle of the formatters... obscure boards functions, flashy colors, and graphics abroad. :p I can't tell if that's an insult or compliment. ;)
Solmund 03-12-05, 11:54 PM	i've fixed what was said was wrong with my character. i changer the gold, exp and equipment, and i've added links to the 2 battles.
Iced 03-13-05, 02:42 PM	Can you use a feat that requires psionic focus while in a rage? I know that you can't cast spells, but can you use the psionic weapon feat? Rage+Psionic Weapon+Expand+Offensive Prescience+Weapon Focus=lots and lots of damage in 1 hit...;)
Solmund 03-13-05, 02:45 PM	yeah, psionic focus is diffrent from concentration for spells.
Snommelp 03-13-05, 02:50 PM	The closest I can find is this: "He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats." So the question is if Psionic Weapon is a mirror of any of the feats listed above. If it is, then your answer is no. If it isn't, the answer is yes.
Solmund 03-13-05, 03:32 PM	The closest I can find is this: "He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats." So the question is if Psionic Weapon is a mirror of any of the feats listed above. If it is, then your answer is no. If it isn't, the answer is yes. psionic weapon just adds 1d8 (or 1d6, i forgot) to a melee weapons damage. combined with proficency for a b. sword, rage class ability, expansion, offensive prescience, and weapon focus, you could take down a 3rd lvl chracter with a songle blow.
Snommelp 03-13-05, 03:34 PM	Fair enough. However, the fact that you must expend your psionic focus in order to activate the feat would lead some (such as myself) to believe it to be a rough equivalent of a metamagic feat. In this instance, I must defer to the judgment of someone else. GMs, elders?
TaggIIV 03-13-05, 03:36 PM	Can druids wear scale mail?
Iced 03-13-05, 03:41 PM	PSIONIC WEAPON [PSIONIC] You can charge your melee weapon with additional damage potential. Prerequisite: Str 13. Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. Your attack with a melee weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of damage. You must decide whether or not to use this feat prior to making an attack. If your attack misses, you still expend your psionic focus. Rage (Ex): A barbarian can fly into a rage a certain number of times per day. In a rage, a barbarian temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +4 bonus to Constitution, and a +2 morale bonus on Will saves, but he takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase in Constitution increases the barbarian’s hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the rage when his Constitution score drops back to normal. (These extra hit points are not lost first the way temporary hit points are.) While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats. A fit of rage lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the character’s (newly improved) Constitution modifier. A barbarian may prematurely end his rage. At the end of the rage, the barbarian loses the rage modifiers and restrictions and becomes fatigued (–2 penalty to Strength, –2 penalty to Dexterity, can’t charge or run) for the duration of the current encounter (unless he is a 17th-level barbarian, at which point this limitation no longer applies; see below). A barbarian can fly into a rage only once per encounter. At 1st level he can use his rage ability once per day. At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, he can use it one additional time per day (to a maximum of six times per day at 20th level). Entering a rage takes no time itself, but a barbarian can do it only during his action, not in response to someone else’s action. Here are the definitions from the SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html)
Snommelp 03-13-05, 03:42 PM	Can druids wear scale mail? Short answer: no. Long answer: according to the PHB, scale mail is "a coat and leggings (and perhaps a seperate skirt) of leather covered with overlapping pieces of metal, much like the scales of a fish." Druids may not wear metal armor of any sort, unless they are willing to lose all spells and supernatural/spell-like abilities granted by the class.
Solmund 03-13-05, 03:43 PM	Fair enough. However, the fact that you must expend your psionic focus in order to activate the feat would lead some (such as myself) to believe it to be a rough equivalent of a metamagic feat. In this instance, I must defer to the judgment of someone else. GMs, elders? meh, there are psionic equivilants of metamagic. they're called metapsionic
Snommelp 03-13-05, 03:44 PM	And that, Solmund, is why I will be deferring to the judgment of someone else, once someone else makes a judgment.
Pittbull 03-13-05, 03:51 PM	While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats. Since the psionic focus derives from concentration, I think it's impossible to expend your focus during rage. That's only my opinion, but I can't show you the official rule.
TaggIIV 03-13-05, 03:58 PM	Well, heres an experiment (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5546445&postcount=218) :D :-/
Sindorin 03-13-05, 03:59 PM	Since the psionic focus derives from concentration, I think it's impossible to expend your focus during rage. That's only my opinion, but I can't show you the official rule. Would that not also infer that if you begin a rage while psionically focused, you would lose it, thus causing a need to regain focus after the rage is finished? I guess the answer to that could also answer the question of whether focus can be expended during rage.
Snommelp 03-13-05, 05:57 PM	Well, heres an experiment (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5546445&postcount=218) :D :-/ A kobold in Gladius? Oh boy... Snomm ain't gonna be happy... I sense impending racial conflict. EDIT: I don't think you can have a crocodile animal companion at level 3... PHB says it's for 4th level and higher.
TaggIIV 03-13-05, 06:47 PM	Animal Companion (Ex): A druid may begin play with an animal companion selected from the following list: badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf. If the campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the following creatures are also available: crocodile, porpoise, Medium shark, and squid. This animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the druid on her adventures as appropriate for its kind. I noticed the same thing. It also includes this above paragraph, so I'm not sure what to do. Probably could use an elder decision? Jindl has Sawtooth as well, but since hes actually level 4 I dont know whether he just got it or if he had it at level 3.
Snommelp 03-13-05, 07:35 PM	Maybe they meant a small crocodile? Regardless, CoCo is hardly an aquatic environment, so that too might be a reason that it would be disallowed. Although you're right, Jindl does have Sawtooth...
Arstimis 03-13-05, 07:40 PM	Maybe they meant a small crocodile? Regardless, CoCo is hardly an aquatic environment, so that too might be a reason that it would be disallowed. Although you're right, Jindl does have Sawtooth... The arena is any environment that is needed...so that isnt the reason for it not behing allowed
Iced 03-13-05, 08:17 PM	It is NOT a metapsionic feat, it's a psionic feat. Also it doesn't usually take a concentration check to use the feat. Maybe it could be thought of a a wild realease of psionic energy through a weapon focus??
TaggIIV 03-13-05, 08:36 PM	My 2 cents on the matter: It takes Concentration (the skill) to gain psionic focus, not to maintain it. Expending focus is not concentrating, its losing concentration. Thus, you can expend focus while in rage.
T'Var 03-13-05, 10:05 PM	The arena is any environment that is needed...so that isnt the reason for it not behing allowed If you look at the picture of Gladius you will see a massive waterfall. The city is Aquatic enviroment even though the battlefield is not
Huan 03-13-05, 10:30 PM	If you look at the picture of Gladius you will see a massive waterfall. The city is Aquatic enviroment even though the battlefield is not Purely subjective, but the way I see it, Gladius is like the central hub to all environments, desert, snow, plains, swamp, forest, ocean, etc.... like how there is a Plane that connects all outerplanes and all their attributes (the Outlands), as such Gladius connects to every possible environment, one way or another. It is a convenient reason why all the gladiators within run the gamut, and fights and quests can take place in such exotic locales.
Caterane 03-14-05, 05:03 AM	Question: What is the duration of the Summon Tanar'ri spell-like ability?
Huan 03-14-05, 07:02 AM	Question: What is the duration of the Summon Tanar'ri spell-like ability? Although it does not say so in 3.5, if you refer to a 3.0 MM, the Summon Tanar'ri ability is specifically said to be treated as a Summon Monster Spell. Like any other spell-like, CL = HD (so we will know duration), and the level of the spell itself is provided in the descriptor.
Pitlords 03-14-05, 08:43 AM	The Advanced Rules: The Credit System (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5660602) part of the FAQ has been completed. Please read this section as this is active from now on and there are 5 new ways of spending credits! Oh and please report any typos or gramatical mistakes :D Hm, I think the next important section I am going to finish are the Basic and Advanced Rules for Quests...
T'Var 03-14-05, 08:43 AM	Although it does not say so in 3.5, if you refer to a 3.0 MM, the Summon Tanar'ri ability is specifically said to be treated as a Summon Monster Spell. Like any other spell-like, CL = HD (so we will know duration), and the level of the spell itself is provided in the descriptor. under the demons special ability discription of summoning it gives its spell level equilivent i.e. a Vrock's summoning is only CL 3 while a Pit Fiend is CL 8
Sindorin 03-14-05, 08:51 AM	Hmm. I was just reading over the Odin vs. Trokk fight. I have a question regarding the new CL+2 rule. The whip token is CL12th. Will we still be able to purchase and use these for the next pairings, or will it be affected by the ECL+2 limit?
Huan 03-14-05, 08:56 AM	under the demons special ability discription of summoning it gives its spell level equilivent i.e. a Vrock's summoning is only CL 3 while a Pit Fiend is CL 8 Yeah, that's spell level, not caster level; they all say this: "This ability is the equivalent of an Xth-level spell." (X of course being a number 1-9)
Huan 03-14-05, 09:09 AM	Ah, reminds me of the days I was an editor for a literary magazine...These are just minor nit-picky bits, though. -Under 'Ways of earning Credits', 6th dot, 'Most of the times' should be 'Most times', or 'Most of the time'. -Technically, you should insert the preposition 'of' in 'With all the ways', changing it to 'With all of the ways' (Under Ways of spending credits) -Under 'ways of spending credits', 5th dot, shouldn't the ECL 6 centaur cost 12 credits instead of 8? -Heh, I take it the 5th point under Custom items was not meant to be grayed out? -Grammatically, you need to surround 'but still belonging to this section' with commas (under Negative credits) First sweep that is all that I caught. Good job, otherwise.
Pitlords 03-14-05, 09:16 AM	Thanks Huan. And you're right about the Centaur. The last two dots under Custom items are intended to be grayed out because they are not enabled yet. Edit: All links in the FAQ are working now, except those that have no FAQ yet.
Snommelp 03-14-05, 07:05 PM	I have decided to finally make myself a lancer gladiator. He'll only be active every so often, maybe once a month or so. I think you'll all like him, though.
Megrim_Lord 03-14-05, 07:54 PM	something I wasn't quite sure of: I know you can wield a crossbow w/o penalty while wearing a buckler, but do you still get the shield bonus? I checked the SRD and it seemed a bit obscure to me the way it was worded Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round.
T'Var 03-14-05, 08:16 PM	something I wasn't quite sure of: I know you can wield a crossbow w/o penalty while wearing a buckler, but do you still get the shield bonus? I checked the SRD and it seemed a bit obscure to me the way it was worded yes you do. you are attacking with your primary hand when using a xbow or a sword 2 handed. even though you are using both hands you lose the shield bonus if you attack with the off hand two weapon fighting
Megrim_Lord 03-14-05, 08:41 PM	better break out the record books, because I'm about to introduce the weakest gladiator in coliseum history... :D
Solmund 03-14-05, 08:42 PM	better break out the record books, because I'm about to introduce the weakest gladiator in coliseum history... :D next to my character? he hasn't even damaged the two opponents he has gone against.
Megrim_Lord 03-14-05, 08:51 PM	next to my character? he hasn't even damaged the two opponents he has gone against. when I said weak I meant strength wise
Pitlords 03-14-05, 08:52 PM	The Rules of Gladius: Quests (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5660571) has been finished. Please read it so that you are updated to the newest definition of Quests.
Megrim_Lord 03-14-05, 09:05 PM	well, nevermind, after a quick redesign his str is 6, not the originally planned 4
cellardweller 03-14-05, 10:23 PM	The Rules of Gladius: Quests (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5660571) has been finished. Please read it so that you are updated to the newest definition of Quests. Firefox goes all funky when there is more than a couple of code blocks on a page. Can you change some of them to font=couriers?
Pitlords 03-14-05, 10:46 PM	Firefox goes all funky when there is more than a couple of code blocks on a page. Can you change some of them to font=couriers? I would have to rearrange the whole table. Can you tell me which table doesn't work, or how many code blocks your browser handles without problems?
cellardweller 03-14-05, 10:56 PM	Will do so when I get home
Sindorin 03-14-05, 11:34 PM	well, nevermind, after a quick redesign his str is 6, not the originally planned 4 Strength: 3 The weakest has been here all along.
Snommelp 03-15-05, 12:12 AM	Well, once we reach the ECL 11 block, I'll be happy to introduce you to the mentally weakest gladiator in history. Mental stats so low, he doesn't even speak Common...
Snommelp 03-15-05, 01:16 AM	Rejoice, all doers of good, for the knight-errant Don Quixote de la Mancha has arrived!
Jindl 03-15-05, 01:39 AM	Rejoice, all doers of good, for the knight-errant Don Quixote de la Mancha has arrived! You really should give him Iron Will. The Don was quite steadfast in his beliefs... (besides, a Will +0 isn't going to get you very far.)
Snommelp 03-15-05, 01:52 AM	You really should give him Iron Will. The Don was quite steadfast in his beliefs... (besides, a Will +0 isn't going to get you very far.) Fair. Of course, he's not exactly like Don Quixote... I imagine the Don would be a good deal older, for one.
KerlanRayne 03-15-05, 04:55 AM	Firefox goes all funky when there is more than a couple of code blocks on a page. Can you change some of them to font=couriers?I have some problems here with Firefox as well. It only happens every one in a while though. Sometimes the CODE boxes are blank, and sometimes there are gray boxes blocking things out. I find that using the restore button, (right between the X to close and the minimize buttons in the top right hand corner) and then maximizing the window again fixes it right up. You could also just double click on the title bar and double click on it again, does the same thing. Try it and see if it works. KerlanRayne
Pitlords 03-15-05, 07:05 AM	Does anyone of you know of an image tool program (like Photoshop, Image Ready, etc) that is free and can be downloaded by anyone? I'd like to add it to the Questlord FAQ as a tool for Questlords.
cellardweller 03-15-05, 08:02 AM	http://www.gimp.org
Snommelp 03-15-05, 09:48 AM	Friday starts Spring Break for me, so I won't be running fights again until the 30th. In the spirit of fairness, I'll also be deactivating my characters until then.
One_Winged_Angel 03-15-05, 09:57 AM	Wow. Been a while since I posted. First, lets start off with questioning. Did we ever come to a closing statement on always alignments? I have a question in respect to that. See, I wanted to make a lawful Demon. I don't see the problem as all I'm doing is exposing myself to more alignment spells (still considered chaotic, and also considered lawful.). If not, I'll just go chaotic. Not a horribly big deal. Mostly RP purposes. Also, my latest character, Azriel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5194996&postcount=135) has been posted. Not quite finished, but please scan for errors anyway. BTW, can anyone find a good pic to fit the character description?
T'Var 03-15-05, 09:59 AM	Wow. Been a while since I posted. First, lets start off with questioning. Did we ever come to a closing statement on always alignments? I have a question in respect to that. See, I wanted to make a lawful Demon. I don't see the problem as all I'm doing is exposing myself to more alignment spells (still considered chaotic, and also considered lawful.). If not, I'll just go chaotic. Not a horribly big deal. Mostly RP purposes. Also, my latest character, Azriel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5194996&postcount=135) has been posted. Not quite finished, but please scan for errors anyway. Always means Always. anyways you cant be Chaotic Lawful...oxymoron
Jindl 03-15-05, 11:55 AM	Friday starts Spring Break for me, so I won't be running fights again until the 30th. In the spirit of fairness, I'll also be deactivating my characters until then. You can keep your 2 minimum pc's active, if you can handle sending tactics. -Jindl
KerlanRayne 03-15-05, 02:35 PM	Does anyone of you know of an image tool program (like Photoshop, Image Ready, etc) that is free and can be downloaded by anyone? I'd like to add it to the Questlord FAQ as a tool for Questlords. You could also try Paint.NET (http://www.eecs.wsu.edu/paint.net/). I like it. KerlanRayne
Pittbull 03-15-05, 03:37 PM	@Pitlord or anybody: With the new credit-system, a new powerstone of vigor (ML6) costs 150gp and1 credit? -Right? Are you allowed to buy scrolls or powerstones which are not costumized but listed in the PHB or EXPH, which exceed your ECL+2? For example an ECL3 Psion wants to have a powerstone with a lvl 4 power (ML7)?
Megrim_Lord 03-15-05, 04:01 PM	Alright, just to make sure I've got this right We can have more than 2 gladiators, but must pay creds to have more than 2 actually ACTIVE at the same time, yes? we dont have to pay JUST to have more than 2
T'Var 03-15-05, 04:08 PM	Alright, just to make sure I've got this right We can have more than 2 gladiators, but must pay creds to have more than 2 actually ACTIVE at the same time, yes? we dont have to pay JUST to have more than 2 Thats correct, must pay if more than 2 are Active
Pitlords 03-15-05, 04:39 PM	@Pitlord or anybody: With the new credit-system, a new powerstone of vigor (ML6) costs 150gp and1 credit? -Right? Are you allowed to buy scrolls or powerstones which are not costumized but listed in the PHB or EXPH, which exceed your ECL+2? For example an ECL3 Psion wants to have a powerstone with a lvl 4 power (ML7)? There are two kinds of custom items: those which are always custom items and those which are custom items depending on your level. Example: gloves of strength and dex+2 are always custom. A CL 10 scroll is only a custom item for a character of lvl 7 or lower. I will give a complete explanation once I get to the NPC Services section of the FAQ. I am currently working on Advanced Rules: Questlording and part of it has been finished. @CD and Kerlan: Thanks for the links! I have added them to the FAQ.
Sindorin 03-15-05, 04:53 PM	Wow, that looks like a lot of work and linking to do... gl with that
T'Var 03-15-05, 05:23 PM	question. If i were to make a White Dragon Wyrmling at ECL 5 3HD he is tiny. would he become small when he becomes 3HD+3rd lvl Ftr or would he need 6 Monsterous HD to advance to the next Dragon catagory?
Megrim_Lord 03-15-05, 05:32 PM	question. If i were to make a White Dragon Wyrmling at ECL 5 3HD he is tiny. would he become small when he becomes 3HD+3rd lvl Ftr or would he need 6 Monsterous HD to advance to the next Dragon catagory? he needs the minimum levels of dragon for an age category to be that age category
Jindl 03-15-05, 06:27 PM	he needs the minimum levels of dragon for an age category to be that age category When he had advanced to 6 dragon HD, you would then need to pay credits for the additional LA increase involved in raising an age category. (4 credits per +1 LA). -Jindl
Megrim_Lord 03-15-05, 08:13 PM	Another curiosity, under the description of the humanoid type, it says a humanoid is proficient with simple weapons and "whatever armor it is described as wearing" Now, if it is described as wearing leather armor, is it proficient with leather armor or all light armor?
Megrim_Lord 03-15-05, 08:24 PM	One other curiosity, if I start out as an afflicted Lycanthrope with one animal HD, is that sufficient for an ECL 3 character, or do I need some sort of class level besides that?
TaggIIV 03-15-05, 08:35 PM	As long as you have HD (class or racial) you qualify as a character. (so yes 1 animal HD is enough, you dont need a class level also)
One_Winged_Angel 03-15-05, 08:41 PM	Always means Always. anyways you cant be Chaotic Lawful...oxymoron Yah, like I said, not a big deal. Just for RP. No real reason. Now, just need to swap Azriel's alignment... But as to your second statement, I dunno. I know some people who are chaotic in their own regards but follow the law to a point. Besides, if you read the description, I said they are only considered to be of that alignment. I had this discussion a while back about a baalor paladin with some buddies of mine. Yah, deadly and all, but looking at it you get pummeled by every alignment. Still, won't argue. Would it be OK with the Pitlords if I was to re-do Keth and keep his name? I just realized that I can make him a great deal better, but it requires major overhaul. Also, any ideas on a picture? Please?!?!
Jindl 03-15-05, 09:17 PM	As long as you have HD (class or racial) you qualify as a character. (so yes 1 animal HD is enough, you dont need a class level also) That's incorrect. A lycanthrope must begin with one class level plus his animal HD.
T'Var 03-15-05, 10:16 PM	Another curiosity, under the description of the humanoid type, it says a humanoid is proficient with simple weapons and "whatever armor it is described as wearing" Now, if it is described as wearing leather armor, is it proficient with leather armor or all light armor? since armor is listed in three catagories light med and heavy if the humaniod is discribed in leather it is proficient with all light, if it has breast plate you are pro with all med and light
Kaigan 03-15-05, 10:49 PM	Just curious, I'm making two characters starting at level 4, what is the beginning gold and xp for this level? There is no L.A. these are just normal human characters, and yes, I'm spending all 8 of my credits to do this. i will send a PM to the pitlords account shortly, about activation. And Cat: don't worry, I will be deleting Tianis, and Risal, and... Nevermind, I'll tell you in the PM.
MysticMonk2005 03-15-05, 11:46 PM	Sorry for this taking so long, I had some computer trouble. I'm just starting on the fight, again sorry. :(
Sindorin 03-16-05, 01:02 AM	Would it be OK with the Pitlords if I was to re-do Keth and keep his name? I just realized that I can make him a great deal better, but it requires major overhaul. Also, any ideas on a picture? Please?!?! http://www.shadowland.org/Planescape/images/gith.jpg http://www.shadowland.org/Planescape/images/gith.jpg He has a sword, so it may not fit Keth's monk characteristics... but i figured you might add a level or two of psychic warrior so I figured I would post it.
spasheridan 03-16-05, 02:28 AM	Can a PW take the psicrystal affinity feat? The Psicrystal monster reads - only counting levels of Psion & Wilder. THe Psicrystal Affinity feat reads - Manifester Level 1. SO.. can a PW take a psicrystal?
Caterane 03-16-05, 05:01 AM	Also, my latest character, Azriel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5194996&postcount=135) has been posted. Not quite finished, but please scan for errors anyway. BTW, can anyone find a good pic to fit the character description? Azriel has been added to the Roster. -8 credits. http://home.arcor.de/caterane/NPC%20Pix/Angel-female.jpg http://home.arcor.de/caterane/NPC%20Pix/Angel1.jpg http://home.arcor.de/caterane/NPC%20Pix/Angel-female1.jpg http://home.arcor.de/caterane/NPC%20Pix/Angel-female2.jpg http://home.arcor.de/caterane/NPC%20Pix/Angel-warrior-female.jpg Chose wise. EDIT: I think a very good angel incarnation is Archangel Gabriel from Constantine; yes a female (white outfit with black wings).
spasheridan 03-16-05, 02:37 PM	@Elders- So, I heard a while back that there was some thoughts on extending a time credit to gladiators that get their fights extended into extra innings. Those time credits were to be allowed for say.. quests, crafting, or training animals. Is this a rule? In the works? Is anyone keeping a record of extended fights?
Jindl 03-16-05, 02:53 PM	@Elders- So, I heard a while back that there was some thoughts on extending a time credit to gladiators that get their fights extended into extra innings. Those time credits were to be allowed for say.. quests, crafting, or training animals. Is this a rule? In the works? Is anyone keeping a record of extended fights? I was the one who made the suggestion. It was never approved. As for tracking it, I don't think it would be retroactive. However, if it was retroactive, we could simply go back through the fights thread and look at the weekly pairings post to determine who qualifies. The "time credit" only applies if your fight was extended an extra week (as opposed to simply being 1 day late). On the weekly pairings post on the Fights thread, you would see a [extended] next to an extended fight, making it pretty easy to spot. I think it would be a simple matter for qualifying gladiators to link the pairings post where the [extended] was listed. This would justify their time credit simply, and could be linked to the pairings where they actually use the credit. Note that time credits would not affect the "active" status of characters, or the total credits required to participate in quests. For example: If the Elder recieved a time credit for his extended fight with Skymoon Moonbow, then he could later use that time credit to craft a peraipt of int +4 during the same week he was paired. During that week, he would count as 2 active pc's for credit purposes. Another example: If the Elder wanted to use his time credit to shorten a quest he was about to embark on to be only 2 weeks, he would still have to pay the total of 3 credits needed to participate in a quest. That's the idea. I really think it should be approved. -Jindl
Sindorin 03-16-05, 04:37 PM	Hello all, I would like to announce that I am ready to run a quest for someone. PM me if you would like a character to go on a quest, and be sure to send your intentions for said quest along with it. Also, an AIM or Yahoo screen name will be helpful as well. If anyone has noticed, I run my weekly fight rather quickly these days, usually always posting before Saturday. I expect to keep a similar pace with said quest, though it wouldn't be too hasty. Basically it will hopefully never get close to the 1 fight/week deadline. I look forward to submissions. Until then, good hunting... ~Sindorin
Megrim_Lord 03-16-05, 04:37 PM	Last questions for awhile.... I hope how does the CoCo handle weapons of increased size? are they allowed? if so what are the cost/weight increases? from my experience for each category larger the weapon's base cost and weight increase by x1.5, but I can't remember if this is actually in the books or not, and I don't have thm on me to look at
T'Var 03-16-05, 04:57 PM	Last questions for awhile.... I hope how does the CoCo handle weapons of increased size? are they allowed? if so what are the cost/weight increases? from my experience for each category larger the weapon's base cost and weight increase by x1.5, but I can't remember if this is actually in the books or not, and I don't have thm on me to look at cost and weight are x2
Megrim_Lord 03-16-05, 05:08 PM	so for two increases is that a two doublings = tripling or x4?
T'Var 03-16-05, 05:20 PM	so for two increases is that a two doublings = tripling or x4? its double double so x4 yes
MysticMonk2005 03-16-05, 09:09 PM	Sonofa....... >.< I set my characters to active for the wrong week... skipping a week threw me off.. If there are any willing Pitlords, and if kaigan is willing, can Lissa be paired? And if there are any lvl 3's who are willing to activate for Emad, I would be most gratefull.
Jindl 03-16-05, 09:25 PM	nevermind.
Snommelp 03-16-05, 09:57 PM	Sonofa....... >.< I set my characters to active for the wrong week... skipping a week threw me off.. If there are any willing Pitlords, and if kaigan is willing, can Lissa be paired? And if there are any lvl 3's who are willing to activate for Emad, I would be most gratefull. I suppose I could activate the Don for Emad, if there's a willing pitlord. I'd need to know fast, though, because starting Friday I'll be away from my computer for more than a week.
Arstimis 03-16-05, 10:22 PM	I suppose I could activate the Don for Emad, if there's a willing pitlord. I'd need to know fast, though, because starting Friday I'll be away from my computer for more than a week. I will be your Pitlord. I forgot to tell Cat that i could pitlord again. So I can do it
One_Winged_Angel 03-17-05, 12:30 AM	Now I just feel dumb. Azriel was supposed to have the bright wings. Meh. Sorry, Cat. I do have a pic though, and used your latest ones in my roleplay post, so much thanks.
Pitlords 03-17-05, 09:31 AM	The FAQ part Advanced Rules: All about Questlording (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5674154) is finished. For those of you who want to run a quest, this is the place to go. @owa: your picture doesn't work. The link leads to a russian page; I can't read it but it seems to say something like "**** you **** grrrr *** vodka" or perhaps even "This page is for authorized persons only" :D
One_Winged_Angel 03-17-05, 09:42 AM	The FAQ part Advanced Rules: All about Questlording (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5674154) is finished. For those of you who want to run a quest, this is the place to go. @owa: your picture doesn't work. The link leads to a russian page; I can't read it but it seems to say something like "**** you **** grrrr *** vodka" or perhaps even "This page is for authorized persons only" :D :confused: :confused: :confused: Strange. It worked last night... *Sigh* Lets try again. Oh, dumb question. Do natural attacks count as Improved Unarmed Strike for purpose of a prereque for taking feats?
T'Var 03-17-05, 10:03 AM	:confused: :confused: :confused: Strange. It worked last night... *Sigh* Lets try again. Oh, dumb question. Do natural attacks count as Improved Unarmed Strike for purpose of a prereque for taking feats? Nope natural weapons are still weapons, they are not unarmed strikes
cellardweller 03-17-05, 10:10 AM	This has come up before. NA's were deamed acceptable for replacements for INA because of a couple of monsters use it (Bebilith for example).
T'Var 03-17-05, 01:22 PM	Oh no, no no no cant we find somethng better than Dinotopia for a picture for the blackmarket...i mean its a blackmarket not a happy go lucky place with kids playing ect ect
Caterane 03-17-05, 01:33 PM	@all: We have a new thread: The Gladius Blackmarket (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=396641). I have posted an explanation there. Please check it out. If anyone has a better picture so that T'Var can sleep again, please post it here or send it to me. That was the best that I had.
T'Var 03-17-05, 01:42 PM	http://www.debrahurd.com/resource3/darkalleylg.jpg Now this would be more the look of a blackmarket
Pitlords 03-17-05, 02:37 PM	http://www.1a-network.de/images/cgi-bin/gbs/smilies/freu.gif HAPPY BIRTHDAY NANALEIGH http://www.1a-network.de/images/cgi-bin/gbs/smilies/prost.gif Nanaleigh, the Core Coliseum wishes you a great time, and may Alexis sword strike true (especially against Boraxx; heh sorry Pittbull)! I hope we see many more fights from you. Cat @ALL: Tonight birthday party in Missouri :D http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/birthday.gif http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/birthday.gif http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/birthday.gif http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/birthday.gif http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/useless.gif
Huan 03-17-05, 02:54 PM	Now this would be more the look of a blackmarket[/center] Yeah, that is. (even though I really liked Dinotopia ;) ). @Nanaleigh Happy Birthday!
T'Var 03-17-05, 03:59 PM	Yeah, that is. (even though I really liked Dinotopia ;) ). Ehh i mean come on, there is a little kid playing, and a dino buying flowers in the forground....doesnt exactly sound or look like a place you are going to be able to buy contra-ban
Caterane 03-17-05, 04:26 PM	What better place to hide it? :D Guys, the problem with a Blackmarket is that it doesn't look like a market but is more like the backroom in a disco or something else that wouldn't make sense as a picture. The picture should represent Gladius Market Square, and at night, there is the blackmarket ...in the drain.
Sindorin 03-17-05, 04:33 PM	Okay I have a silly question: If one is raging and one realizes one is at two hitpoints, would one go away and heal? Or would one be too mad to care?
Caterane 03-17-05, 04:39 PM	Okay I have a silly question: If one is raging and one realizes one is at two hitpoints, would one go away and heal? Or would one be too mad to care? Sure, he can. Only dex, int, cha based skills are forbidden, aswell as things that require concentration or have anything to do with casting or manifesting.
T'Var 03-17-05, 04:41 PM	Okay I have a silly question: If one is raging and one realizes one is at two hitpoints, would one go away and heal? Or would one be too mad to care? you know your hurt you know you will die your not mindless your just in a ferver
Megrim_Lord 03-17-05, 04:43 PM	Okay I have a silly question: If one is raging and one realizes one is at two hitpoints, would one go away and heal? Or would one be too mad to care? I dont suppose that pertains to my fight now would it? but we can both rage, so the mystery is, which is it?
T'Var 03-17-05, 04:44 PM	What better place to hide it? :D Guys, the problem with a Blackmarket is that it doesn't look like a market but is more like the backroom in a disco or something else that wouldn't make sense as a picture. The picture should represent Gladius Market Square, and at night, there is the blackmarket ...in the drain. but a blackmarket isnt a market place it IS a hidden back room where you get what is not allowed. a place where your as likly to get stabbed in the back as to get the forbidden magic your looking for
TaggIIV 03-17-05, 04:52 PM	i like this one. :p http://www.musarium.com/HOLLYWOOD/images/dark_alley_big.JPG
Jindl 03-17-05, 05:40 PM	Quest Announcement!! I'm looking for a pair of stalwart adventurers who are interested in teaming up for a 3 week quest. Please respond ASAP. I'll select two participants based primarily on RP potential. -Jindl
Snommelp 03-17-05, 05:48 PM	Quest Announcement!! I'm looking for a pair of stalwart adventurers who are interested in teaming up for a 3 week quest. Please respond ASAP. I'll select two participants based primarily on RP potential. -Jindl When, pray tell, can we expect this quest to begin? I may be interested (although I have quested before, so perhaps it is someone else's turn).
Jindl 03-17-05, 06:02 PM	When, pray tell, can we expect this quest to begin? I may be interested (although I have quested before, so perhaps it is someone else's turn). It will begin when it begins, which is to say when I have selected the two participants and had time to prepare the story and encounters around them.
Huan 03-17-05, 06:09 PM	Quest Announcement!! I'm looking for a pair of stalwart adventurers who are interested in teaming up for a 3 week quest. Please respond ASAP. I'll select two participants based primarily on RP potential. -Jindl I would like to nominate Rook, actually.
Snommelp 03-17-05, 06:09 PM	It will begin when it begins, which is to say when I have selected the two participants and had time to prepare the story and encounters around them. Fair enough. If it's still open after I get back from Spring Break, I'll see if one of my characters feels like questing.
Zaranthan 03-17-05, 06:15 PM	Hey, look, there's a new guy in town! Well, after reading through all the stickies, I think I've found an arena board I might actually enjoy participating in. Of course, I have a few questions that I can't seem to find the answers to (c'mon, you saw this coming): 1. Okay, so starting equipment (3,000 gp) and crafting rules (take 10 for a 66% discount) seem pretty straightforward. Question is, is there anything other than the honor system stopping me from using that 3,000 gp to craft 9,000 gp worth of items? 2. If not, then what stops me from selling those items for 4,500 gp? 3. For expendable items, is the maximum caster level equal to my hit dice or ECL? 4. When purchasing a wizard's spellbook, can I purchase additional spells (beyond the 2 per level he gets for free) at the material cost of 100 gp per page, or are there costs for obtaining the spell itself (if so, is 50 gp per spell level as from another wizard's spellbook enough, or should I simply purchase an appropriate scroll)? 5. When producing my own scrolls, is the limit of 1,000 gp per day the only holdback, or am I still held to the one-scroll-per-day limit listed in the DMG? Apologies if these answers are hidden in the FAQ anywhere, but three read-throughs didn't reveal them. If they are answered somewhere, links would be greatly appreciated, "teach a man to fish" and all.
T'Var 03-17-05, 06:33 PM	Hey, look, there's a new guy in town! Well, after reading through all the stickies, I think I've found an arena board I might actually enjoy participating in. Of course, I have a few questions that I can't seem to find the answers to (c'mon, you saw this coming): 1. Okay, so starting equipment (3,000 gp) and crafting rules (take 10 for a 66% discount) seem pretty straightforward. Question is, is there anything other than the honor system stopping me from using that 3,000 gp to craft 9,000 gp worth of items? actually the cost of crafting is 1/2 not 1/3 which solved the problem of question two 2. If not, then what stops me from selling those items for 4,500 gp? 3. For expendable items, is the maximum caster level equal to my hit dice or ECL? the max is you caster level +2 not total HD or ECL 4. When purchasing a wizard's spellbook, can I purchase additional spells (beyond the 2 per level he gets for free) at the material cost of 100 gp per page, or are there costs for obtaining the spell itself (if so, is 50 gp per spell level as from another wizard's spellbook enough, or should I simply purchase an appropriate scroll)? 5. When producing my own scrolls, is the limit of 1,000 gp per day the only holdback, or am I still held to the one-scroll-per-day limit listed in the DMG? shrug lol i rarly play casters Apologies if these answers are hidden in the FAQ anywhere, but three read-throughs didn't reveal them. If they are answered somewhere, links would be greatly appreciated, "teach a man to fish" and all. No prob always here to welcome the noobs
Zaranthan 03-17-05, 06:52 PM	Thanks for the quick response. Of course, all good answers raise more questions. actually the cost of crafting is 1/2 not 1/3 which solved the problem of question two A very elegant solution, but does this imply that one cannot spend time to simply earn a little extra cash (with, say, a Craft or Profession check)? the max is you caster level +2 not total HD or ECL Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I'm a 3rd level fighter. I want a potion of fly (CL 5) and a potion of Greater Magic Weapon +2 (CL 8). Fair purchases? (I know they're extravagent, but I like to have options.) shrug lol i rarly play casters Hey, thanks for sharing what you did know. More of an effort than most would offer.
Snommelp 03-17-05, 07:04 PM	A very elegant solution, but does this imply that one cannot spend time to simply earn a little extra cash (with, say, a Craft or Profession check)?That is correct. Characters are given essentially infinite time before they arrive in Gladius for things like crafting and training animals. If you could make "a little extra cash" from Craft and Profession checks, anyone with those skills could have an infinite amount of gold at the start.Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I'm a 3rd level fighter. I want a potion of fly (CL 5) and a potion of Greater Magic Weapon +2 (CL 8). Fair purchases? (I know they're extravagent, but I like to have options.) As far as I know, you'd only be allowed the potion of Fly. I've been wrong before, though.
Jindl 03-17-05, 07:10 PM	1. Okay, so starting equipment (3,000 gp) and crafting rules (take 10 for a 66% discount) seem pretty straightforward. Question is, is there anything other than the honor system stopping me from using that 3,000 gp to craft 9,000 gp worth of items? T'Var was right. For items crafted at the time of character creation, it is 0.5 x market value for nonmagical items with no limits on time needed to create the items. After character creation, you may craft additional nonmagical items at a rate of 1000 gp per day, for the same 0.5 x market value. Obviously, since this takes time, it factors into whether you get to fight that week or not. You are allowed to craft up to 1000 gp total per week while still qualifying to be paired for a match. If you craft more than 1000 gp in a week, you will not fight that week (although you do count as an "active" pc.) 2. If not, then what stops me from selling those items for 4,500 gp?Nothing. Although there is little benefit, since it cost 4500 gp to craft the item in the first place. 3. For expendable items, is the maximum caster level equal to my hit dice or ECL?It only applies to potions/tattoos/scrolls/powerstones and it is ECL +2. 4. When purchasing a wizard's spellbook, can I purchase additional spells (beyond the 2 per level he gets for free) at the material cost of 100 gp per page, or are there costs for obtaining the spell itself (if so, is 50 gp per spell level as from another wizard's spellbook enough, or should I simply purchase an appropriate scroll)? Scribing new spells involves 2 costs: 1. The cost of acquiring a spell to copy. This could be the cost of a scroll of that spell (if your Spellcraft is high enough pass when taking 10 on the check to copy the scroll), or it could be paying 50 gp per spell level to copy the spell from another wizard. Basically, its cheaper to copy a scroll for 1st level spells, and from another wizard for 2nd level and higher spells. 2. The second cost is the cost per page to put the copied spell into your spellbook. Spells need 1 page per level, and each page costs 100 gp, so you must pay another 100 gp per spell level for scribing costs in addition to the cost of acquiring a spell to copy. You can avoid this by getting a Blessed Book magic item, which allows you to scribe spells into it for free. 5. When producing my own scrolls, is the limit of 1,000 gp per day the only holdback, or am I still held to the one-scroll-per-day limit listed in the DMG? We decided to make all crafting proceed at the same rate, which is 1000 gp per day. So yes, you could make multiple scrolls in 1 day, as long as they didn't exceed 1000 gp in total market value. Welcome to the CoCo. -Jindl
spasheridan 03-17-05, 07:26 PM	@Jindl- If yer interested in having a scottish brogue talking, ale drinking, foul smelling dwarf go on a quest, Fyhir is interested in heading out on a quest after this week (he'll hit 4th after this match win or loose). If you are lookiing for interests / hooks, Fyhir drinks alot. Early life Fyhir was a smith in his home town, working with steel and crystal. Years of work with crystal taught him some of the begginings of Psychic power, so he became a PW. Then the adventuring life, mad cap adventures with friends until a fatal meeting with a shambling mound. After a raise dead Fyhir decided that discretion was the better part of valor, sold off his adventuring gear, and opened up an Inn with his winnings. After that went south Fyhir decided to come to Gladius. Hooks could include helping his old friends (Helar a 1/2 Orc Barb / Cleric, Aemon a human Cleric / Wiz, Shaft a Dwarf Fighter). Fyhir is also greedy, so loot always works. And then there's the booze.. it wouldn't be too unusual for Fyhir to wake up after a few days of drinking and find himself somewhere else.
Jindl 03-17-05, 07:30 PM	Hooks could include helping his old friends (Helar a 1/2 Orc Barb / Cleric, Aemon a human Cleric / Wiz, Shaft a Dwarf Fighter). Fyhir is also greedy, so loot always works. And then there's the booze.. it wouldn't be too unusual for Fyhir to wake up after a few days of drinking and find himself somewhere else. Um, I though Aemon was a Ftr/Rog/Asn? And a former "unstoppable"?
spasheridan 03-17-05, 07:32 PM	Well, there are probably many Aemon's out there. Fyhir is a PC from my last campaign (PnP) and these are the the other party members he traveled with.
Jindl 03-17-05, 07:37 PM	Check here in the Hall of Fame. Aemon (Beldin) is tied with Evram the Soulless for the best starting record ever, going 8-0. -Jindl
KerlanRayne 03-18-05, 04:42 AM	For items crafted at the time of character creation, it is 0.5 x market value for nonmagical items. After character creation, you may craft additional nonmagical items at a rate of 1000 gp per day, for 0.333 x market value. ... This is a potential way to make money after character creation, although it will cost you time.WHOAH! Is it just me, or is this new? I did not know this at all. How would you handle selling items? Would you have to sell it to another PC or can you just automatially assume to have sold it to some random NPC? KerlanRayne
spasheridan 03-18-05, 11:13 AM	T'Var was half right. For items crafted at the time of character creation, it is 0.5 x market value for nonmagical items. After character creation, you may craft additional nonmagical items at a rate of 1000 gp per day, for 0.333 x market value. Obviously, since this takes time, it factors into whether you get to fight that week or not. You are allowed to craft up to 1000 gp total per week while still qualifying to be paired for a match. If you craft more than 1000 gp in a week, you will not fight that week (although you do count as an "active" pc.) So, any PC with craft skills can spend 1 day / week crafting 1000 gp worth of gear, spending 333gp and selling it for 500gp, therefore gaining 167gp every week? COOL!
Caterane 03-18-05, 12:40 PM	So, any PC with craft skills can spend 1 day / week crafting 1000 gp worth of gear, spending 333gp and selling it for 500gp, therefore gaining 167gp every week? No, this is not correct. The FAQ: Skills (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5222306) clearly say you must pay 1/2 market price.
Jindl 03-18-05, 12:48 PM	Thanks Cat. Sorry guys, my mistake. I've edited my above post to be correct. -Jindl
T'Var 03-18-05, 01:16 PM	Dont want to say it but....well...... I Told You So :P
Megrim_Lord 03-18-05, 03:08 PM	I am now available to run a quest for one player, either short or long (doesn't matter to me). If you are looking to go on a quest PM me and I'll get back to you. I would prefer it if it is someone who is on often, as it is my goal to get the quest on time (though early wouldn't be bad either). It will probably start next week (not this week), but could be ready earlier depending on how long I can hijack the computer, because I've got no homework this weekend and weekdays are light. I may keep things simple for this one, but I can come up with pretty good stories when I'm motivated (or backed into a corner, whichever comes first) so hopefully I can round everything out and we can have a good experience with this, like I said, if interested just PM me.
spasheridan 03-18-05, 04:51 PM	On the craftin vein, here's a ?. Say a PC wanted to craft something like Adamantine Full Plate. Market price on that would be 16,500 gp, yes? Crafting costs would be 8,250 gp and it would take 17 days of work. If the PC in question wanted to start work on that project could they send 500 gp a week and their 1 day each week or do they have to spend the full 8,250 on day 1?? Thanks!
T'Var 03-18-05, 04:58 PM	On the craftin vein, here's a ?. Say a PC wanted to craft something like Adamantine Full Plate. Market price on that would be 16,500 gp, yes? Crafting costs would be 8,250 gp and it would take 17 days of work. If the PC in question wanted to start work on that project could they send 500 gp a week and their 1 day each week or do they have to spend the full 8,250 on day 1?? Thanks! as I understand it, you can craft 1000 gp in one day, however if your item costs more than 1000gp you can craft only 1000gp of it a week and are occupied for that week, so Adamantine Full Plate would take you 9 weeks to create. And they would have to pay the cost at the beginning of the creation
Jindl 03-18-05, 05:45 PM	Hah, this time you are wrong, T'Var (:D) Check the FAQ (here). You could craft the "dwarven plate" at 1000 gp per day, taking 17 days. These 17 days could represent 3 weeks of sitting out, or 2 weeks of sitting out plus 3 weeks of being paired (and working 1 day per week), or 17 weeks of working 1 day per week and being paired. Use whatever combination you wish, as long as it equals 17 days, and you pay the entire 1/2 price when you begin crafting. (Although I would submit to the Elders to vote to allow you to pay as you go, only 500 gp per day spent crafting that week.) -Jindl
T'Var 03-18-05, 05:52 PM	Hah, this time you are wrong, T'Var (:D) -Jindl Curses! Foiled again!!
spasheridan 03-18-05, 05:58 PM	(Although I would submit to the Elders to vote to allow you to pay as you go, only 500 gp per day spent crafting that week.) -Jindl Yeah, it seems to me that it's reasonable to craft say, a boot one week for 500 GP and then the other boot the next week for 500 gp, the helmet a week after that... It's also kind of neat RP wise.. the smith is battling in the arena each week to earn enough gold to purchase the next load of ore and fuel to keep his fires burning... soon my masterpiece will be complete and ALL will cringe in awe and terror... :evillaugh SO, how does one petition this mysterious council of elders? Flattery? Bribery? Threats? :D
One_Winged_Angel 03-18-05, 07:40 PM	I might have already asked this, but what is the greatest GP value of an item that we can get on a quest?
Caterane 03-18-05, 09:12 PM	I might have already asked this, but what is the greatest GP value of an item that we can get on a quest? There is no limit but with increased market price rises the Encounter Level. So if you want that Frostbrand you have to defeat the dragon guarding it. SO, how does one petition this mysterious council of elders? Flattery? Bribery? Threats? I haven't found out yet
TaggIIV 03-18-05, 09:27 PM	Items and other things: This broad categorie encompasses everything else. Weapons, armor, potions, music instruments, tools, etc; everything that has a gold price listed next to its name. You can either keep and use these items, or sell them for half price after the Quest is over (or during the Quest if you come across a market). Unfair, you say? Yes and No... Of course, even if you can use the item, the same amount in gold would still be better because it gives you much more freedom in what you can purchase. That gets even worse if you cannot use the item and lose half its value when you sell it. It is highly doubtful that every item you find on the Quest is just the one you wanted to buy anyway. For that reason, every Item is calculated with only 3/4 its market price for quest treasure purposes. That makes sure that there is a balance between gold and XP gained on a quest. Does this 3/4 item value apply also to the main item that the character is (if applicable) specifically questing for?
cellardweller 03-18-05, 11:33 PM	The problem with the council is a lack of structure. I proposed this a few weeks ago to a resounding silence. Re: Elders council I would like to see a change in procedures for how matters are addressed and propose the following. Step 1 - Problem definition (Time limit 10 days) A seperate thread is opened to discuss the topic. Any member of CoCo community may open this thread to address an issue they wish resolved. The phrasing of the question is discussed (where possible they should require yes/no answers). All relevant points that could sway a decision are presented. Input from the full CoCo community accepted. Step 2 - Voting stage 1 (Time limit 5 days) The elders tally votes. If an absolute majority is reached, the matter is resolved. Step 3 - Voting stage 2 (Time limit 3 days) CoCo GM's add their vote to the elders. If an absolute majority is reached, the matter is resolved. Step 4 - Voting stage 2 (Time limit 14 days) All CoCo members add their votes to the elders and GM's. Absolute majority is not required
Captain Mutilate 03-19-05, 02:42 PM	Hey, it's been a while. After some lurking, I've decided to get back into the coliseum - it looks to be in a *lot* better shape then when my activity petered off. The starting ECL is 3! 3! Best change ever! :P Well, I'll look forward to playing with everyone again. Now to make the fighter to end all fighters.
Captain Mutilate 03-19-05, 03:41 PM	Oooh, double post. >gasp< Edit: Ah well, doesn't matter for now. Don't bother answering. Since I'm an idiot, I need this rules question answered by any takers, please. For a magical weapon to have a special ability, does it need to have a +1 magical enhancement bonus in addition to the ability? And therefore all weapons with a special ability would be at least the equivalent of +2 weapons?
Megrim_Lord 03-19-05, 06:24 PM	correct
spasheridan 03-21-05, 11:20 PM	SO, Fyhir wants to make himself a nice Deep Crystal great axe. Market price for one of these puppies (MW of course) is 1320 GP. To craft it Fyhir will spend 660 GP and 2 days. Can I spend 1 day right after the fight with Telnith Furen this week and the 1st day of next week and put it on my sheet now or do I need to wait till next week? Thanks!
Jindl 03-21-05, 11:32 PM	SO, Fyhir wants to make himself a nice Deep Crystal great axe. Market price for one of these puppies (MW of course) is 1320 GP. To craft it Fyhir will spend 660 GP and 2 days. Can I spend 1 day right after the fight with Telnith Furen this week and the 1st day of next week and put it on my sheet now or do I need to wait till next week? Thanks! You can't spend 1 day this week, unless you already had the necessary 500 gp of cash (raw materials for 1 day of crafting) before you participated in this week's pairing. If you did already have 500 gp left over before your fight this week, then we could allow you to have spent 1 day crafting this week (which occurred before your fight). Then you could spend 1 day crafting next week (and another 160 gp), and have the axe completed. This additional day would also occur before the fight next week. If you did not have the 500 gp available before your recently completed fight, then your first day of crafting will be next week. -Jindl
spasheridan 03-22-05, 12:46 AM	Had the cash, no problem. I just wasnt aware until a page or so back in the tavern that you could spend 1 day a week crafting AND still fight. Do I put a note in the week's match link that I crafted the axe?
One_Winged_Angel 03-22-05, 10:57 PM	Hi. Just curious as to the number of questlords we have. I'd like to do a quest with Azriel once after she fights. If there are any takers, kindly contact me sometime before Monday. Thanks!
Jindl 03-23-05, 01:14 PM	@OWA - Well, I am looking for 2 pc's to participate in a quest. So far, the following people have applied: 1. Rook (Huan) - ECL5 2. ?unknown? (Snommelp) - ECL? 3. Fyhir (spasheridan) - ECL4 4. I'd like to have two pc's of similar power. From an RP perspective, it would be good to have a similar goal. I'm still waiting for more applicants, or suggestions from the current applicants for what their similar goal could/would be. Then I'll select 2 participants and create the quest. -Jindl
Jindl 03-23-05, 01:18 PM	@OWA - I was just looking over Azriel (as one of many potential opponents for the week), and I noticed that she has a couple of custom tattoos of vigor (ML5). Make sure you post on the Gladius Blackmarket (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=396641) that Azriel has obtained these two custom items, and that they cost 1 credit each (in addition to the normal gp cost). -Jindl
One_Winged_Angel 03-23-05, 06:37 PM	@OWA - I was just looking over Azriel (as one of many potential opponents for the week), and I noticed that she has a couple of custom tattoos of vigor (ML5). Make sure you post on the Gladius Blackmarket (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=396641) that Azriel has obtained these two custom items, and that they cost 1 credit each (in addition to the normal gp cost). -Jindl I thought the rule was ECL+2. Maybe I read it wrong. Yes, I did. Darn. Scroll/Powerstones only. I'll just go and change that. Gotta rely on other things now... EDIT: Bah! Beat by pairings. I'll just have to say that I didn't actually buy those. EDIT EDIT: Oh, btw, Jindl, if you could add me to that list... Azriel is trying to find her old scythe.
cellardweller 03-23-05, 06:41 PM	I'm going to be absent for a while I trade the oppressive sun of Perth for the oppressive rain of London. Play nice and I'll see you in a few weeks. Peace out.
spasheridan 03-24-05, 01:06 AM	SO, invisibility and the feather token... If I'm invis and I activate my whip feather token, what happens?? Thanks!
Arstimis 03-24-05, 06:27 AM	SO, invisibility and the feather token... If I'm invis and I activate my whip feather token, what happens?? Thanks! Your whip feather token is activated......heh but you stay invisible, until you attack with your feather token....at least thats what i think
One_Winged_Angel 03-24-05, 09:35 AM	That's the basic gist of it. See, the whip is considered a dancing weapon. Activating it is not an attack action, so it does not cancel invisibility. Attacking with a dancing weapon is an attack action, so it does cancel invisibility.
MysticMonk2005 03-24-05, 01:00 PM	I will be retiring Lissa and Emad. I'll bring in a new char, and wait for Pard to come back.
Jindl 03-24-05, 01:04 PM	I'm going to be absent for a while I trade the oppressive sun of Perth for the oppressive rain of London. Play nice and I'll see you in a few weeks. Peace out. Enjoy your trip. EDIT EDIT: Oh, btw, Jindl, if you could add me to that list... Azriel is trying to find her old scythe. Sorry buddy. Perhaps I can catch you with the next one. I've decided to take Fyhir and Rook on a quest. Hrm, a psionic dwarf and a psionic mage ... should be interesting :D
spasheridan 03-24-05, 02:04 PM	SO, how's this sound as a legal action: PC A mounted on horse. PC B mounted on horse. PC A rides (single move by mount) (guide w/knees) to somewhere, and readied an action to do something when he see's PC B PC B rides around the corner, triggering PC A's readied action. Readied action: Take a standard action (shoot bow, drink potion, cast spell) and move mount (guide with knees) (single move action for mount) SO, is this legal??? Can PC A ready an action and his mounts move or can he just ready his own action?? Can PC A ready an action to just move his mount?? THANKS!
Jindl 03-24-05, 02:08 PM	From the PHB, pg 160, Special Initiative Actions, Ready: "You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action." Moving your mount is a free action. You cannot combine moving your mount with performing a standard action, as part of the same readied action. You could ready an action to move your mount, or ready an action to perform a standard action, but not both. The only exception is that you may combine a 5 ft step with your readied action, if you have not yet moved that round. -Jindl
spasheridan 03-24-05, 02:21 PM	Can the mount ready an aciton to move??? I guess that would only make sense with intelligent mounts though, a horse is not really the perfect choice.
Pitlords 03-24-05, 02:21 PM	@Jindl: No need to post 4 times in a row :D @ALL: We have a new picture in the Gallery, and I am glad that I could add the first female member: Nanaleigh (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4034178#post4034178).
Snommelp 03-24-05, 02:32 PM	@Jindl: No need to post 4 times in a row :D @ALL: We have a new picture in the Gallery, and I am glad that I could add the first female member: Nanaleigh (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4034178#post4034178). Really? Then I guess WizO_Shadow is a very feminine looking man! :P Oh, by the way, I'm back from Spring Break now.
Pitlords 03-24-05, 02:37 PM	I said "Member", not "Moderator" :teach:
Megrim_Lord 03-24-05, 02:47 PM	Your whip feather token is activated......heh but you stay invisible, until you attack with your feather token....at least thats what i think no, you stay invisible The token doesn't directly target someone, so you dont lose invia, and after you arent the one in control of it, so no faults on you if it attacks your opponent
spasheridan 03-24-05, 02:48 PM	That's the basic gist of it. See, the whip is considered a dancing weapon. Activating it is not an attack action, so it does not cancel invisibility. Attacking with a dancing weapon is an attack action, so it does cancel invisibility. That seems to be the relevant bit, right?
Megrim_Lord 03-24-05, 02:58 PM	oh, forgot about the whole dancing weapon technicality, I'll rescind the statement about it attacking in that case
spasheridan 03-26-05, 04:04 AM	Hey Folks- Benefit: Once per round when your mount is hit in combat, you may attempt a Ride check (as a reaction) to negate the hit. The hit is negated if your Ride check result is greater than the opponent’s attack roll. (Essentially, the Ride check result becomes the mount’s Armor Class if it’s higher than the mount’s regular AC.) SO, say PC A attacks PC B's mount. PC A rolls a 20!, auto hit. This feat allows the rider to negate the hit, and since a 20! can't miss, then the feat does nothing. BUT, I do need to roll the threat. Can the ride check be used to stop the threat from becoming a crit? Another thing, Lances. Since they're 2-handed weapons, if you're mounted on a warhorse and use a lance & shield, isn't the lance damage always +str*1.5? Lance: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. It has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it, but you can’t use it against an adjacent foe. While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand. Thanks!
T'Var 03-26-05, 08:26 AM	Hey Folks- SO, say PC A attacks PC B's mount. PC A rolls a 20!, auto hit. This feat allows the rider to negate the hit, and since a 20! can't miss, then the feat does nothing. BUT, I do need to roll the threat. Can the ride check be used to stop the threat from becoming a crit? Another thing, Lances. Since they're 2-handed weapons, if you're mounted on a warhorse and use a lance & shield, isn't the lance damage always +str*1.5? Thanks! that is correct the ride check can negate it being a crit. Lances are an exception, they can be used 1 handed Only while mounted though which would allow you too use a shield in the other hand so while using one handed its just normal dmg
Pitlords 03-26-05, 10:06 AM	@all: Another part of the FAQ has been finished: Cohorts and Allies (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5222306). From next wednesday on the already announced and discussed ally rule will be in effect. Since there are no leadership or handle animal allies yet, the most important part that has changed is a) that basic bought animals do count against your ally limit (albeit at a special rule: max HD = your ECL), and the 25% xp and gp penalty for bringing one into the arena. Likewise, those who fight alone against someone with allies, gets a 33% bonus to his gold and xp. That means if both bring in allies, the rewards will cancel themselves out (3/4 * 4/3 = 1) and both get normal xp and gold. Example: Level 3 pairing. PC A with ally, PC B without ally: A wins: 900 XP - 25% = 675 XP B loses: 300 XP +33% = 400 XP A loses: 300 XP - 25% = 225 XP B wins: 900 XP +33% = 1200 XP Another change is the handling of the death of a wizards familiar. There is no xp loss but a 2 month probation until you may summon another one. The reason for this is that I haven't figured out how to balance the XP loss with the gold balance, and the lack of a rule on how to unlevel a character properly. This might change in the future though as Ashenai strongly favored heavy penalties for familiar deaths. Since he is not available atm we have to wait for his return. Please read the FAQ! I have posted the important part below: How many cohorts/allies can I have? [...] Note that there are two exceptions. (1) Firstly, you can always have one of the nine basic animals you can buy (guard dog (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersAnimal.html#dog), riding dog (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersAnimal.html#riding-dog), donkey (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersAnimal.html#donkey), heavy horse (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersAnimal.html#horse), light horse (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersAnimal.html#horse), heavy warhorse (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersAnimal.html#horse), light warhorse (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersAnimal.html#horse), pony (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersAnimal.html#pony), and warpony (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersAnimal.html#war-pony)), even though they would breach the CR limit of your ECL-5. Instead there is a special limit for those allies: their HD must not be greater than your ECL. These basic animals still count as an ally so you cannot bring along any other ally unless your ECL is high enough to support more than one (remember: ECL-5 is the limit). Example: A level 3 character (ECL 3) could bring in a bought Light Warhorse even though its CR 1 is more than your ECL-5. He may not bring in a Heavy Warhorse because its HD (4) exceed your ECL (3). A level 6 character (ECL 6) may also bring along a Light Warhorse (CR 1) but no additional ally because his limit is still 1 (6-5=1). He could instead bring in a Heavy Warhorse because his ECL (6) is greater than the Warhorse's HD (4). A level 12 character could bring in 7 Light Warhorses (7*CR1 = CR 7) because his limit is 7 (12-5). (2) The second exception is if a class feature specifically allows a certain cohort, then it is allowed, even if the ECL or CR is higher than what the above calculations would allow. Example: a level 7 Druid could have a Dire Wolf animal companion, even though a Dire Wolf is CR 3, and would thus only be allowed for a level 8 character otherwise. Similarly, an ECL 10 Thrallherd with a Leadership score of 13 or more could have an ECL 9 thrall. Note, though, that these exceptional allies still count against the CR or ECL limit. In other words, the Druid and the Thrallherd in the examples above could enter into battle with their animal ally (or thrall), but they can take no other allies along. Do cohorts and allies have an impact on treasure and XP? Yes, most of them do. If you receive the help of any cohort or ally in a battle, you lose 1/4 of the XP and 1/4 of the gold you would have gotten in that fight. Your allies do not get any of this XP or gold; it is simply lost. The number and power of allies helping is unimportant; if you are helped by one or more cohorts or allies, you get 1/4 less gold or XP. The only exceptions are the class feature allies of Druids, Rangers, Paladins, Wizards, and Sorcerers, and a single basic bought animal. These allies are the only ones whose help does not cost gold and XP. Likewise, if you fought alone against a character with allies you receive a 33% bonus in gold and xp, added to your final reward (even in case of a loss). That means, if both combatants enter the arena with allies, they will both receive normal xp and gold because their penalty and bonus cancel themselves out. Because of the HD limit and the XP/GP cost, you may refund basic bought animals for full if you wish to do so. Same goes for equipment used for your basic animals (saddle, bit&bridle, horseshoes of speed, barding, lance). EDIT: I am currently discussing Cellardweller's fully baked ally proposal with him which seems to be a more appropriate calculation for Allies. However, there are still some passages that I don't agree on but basically we might see his formula in a few weeks. Cellardweller's fully baked Ally proposal There are 4 problems with the system that I want to address. 1) If you need to use an ally, there is no point in using less than the maximum. 2) Horses provide an significant advantage for minimal cost at lower levels. 3) There is no option to "swap out" a horse for a more appropriate ally for the character. 4) There are no rules for using a combination of ECL'd and CR'd allies. Allow me to present the cellar dweller's fully baked ally proposal. The coefficient of allies is calculated according to the following CA = coeefficient of allies AELi = ECL of the i'th ally (0 if LA is '-') ACRi = CR of the i'th ally (0 if LA is not '-') CA = sum(AELi+ACRi) For example Johnny Uncarismatic is an 8th level human cleric. He has the leadership feat, but only has leadership score of 4. If he brought in his cohort (ECL 4) rode a light warhorse (CR1) and had raised an Ogre Skeleton (CR2) and a wolf skeleton (CR1). He would have a ca=sum(4+1+2+1)=8 Maximum CA The maximum ca a gladiator may bring into each fight is equal to his ECL and no individual ally may have an ael>ECL-2 or an acl>max(ecl-4,2) a CR greater than the gladiators ECL-4. Cost of allies Using allies in a fight reduces the rewards you recieve. You recieve CA/ECL*25% less xp and gc for winning a fight. Similarly you receive opponents oppnents CA/ECL*25% more xp and gc for defeating a gladiator that uses allies. Class allies (eg paladin's warhorse, wizards familiar) and not counted in any calculations. Examples Level 3 gladiator brings in ...a light warhorse (CA=1) : (1/3*.25) 8.33% xp and gold penalty ...a heavy warhorse (CA=2) : (2/3*.25) 16.67% gp and xp penalty. ...a heavy warhorse and a trained wolf (CA=3) : (3/3*.25) 25% xp and gold penalty. ...2 heavy warhorses (CA=4) : not permitted (CA>ECL) ...a giant owl (CA=3) : not permitted (eal>ECL-2) A Level 4 gladiator ...a light warhorse (CA=1) : (1/4*.25) 6.25% xp and gold penalty ...a heavy warhorse (CA=2) : (2/4*.25) 12.5% gp and xp penalty. ...a heavy warhorse and a trained wolf (CA=3) : (3/4*.25) 18.75% xp and gold penalty. ...2 heavy warhorses (CA=4) : (4/4*.25) 25% xp and gold penalty. ...a 5 headed hydra (CA=4) : Not permitted (ecr > ECL-4) A Level 5 gladiator ...a light warhorse (CA=1) : (1/5*.25) 5% xp and gold penalty ...a heavy warhorse (CA=2) : (2/5*.25) 10% gp and xp penalty. ...5 wolf skeletons (CA=5) : (5/5*.25) 25% xp and gold penalty.
Solmund 03-26-05, 10:57 AM	grr, i can't wait until my character gets to next level. then i can bring in a wolf animal companion.......and use spells...
spasheridan 03-26-05, 11:38 PM	Benefit: When you take this feat, you gain 2 hit points for each psionic feat you have (including this one). Whenever you take a new psionic feat, you gain 2 more hit points.Do metapsionic and/or psionic item creation feats count for being psionic feats for this??
Solmund 03-27-05, 12:08 AM	Do metapsionic and/or psionic item creation feats count for being psionic feats for this?? i would assume not, but i am not a pitlord, so that isn't up to me.
Arstimis 03-27-05, 02:45 AM	Do metapsionic and/or psionic item creation feats count for being psionic feats for this?? I would say yes. Is it a Psionic Feat? yes, a different type, but still a psionic feat
spasheridan 03-27-05, 03:41 AM	SO, I'm trying to wade through the cohort / ally section. I think I have the gist of it. Let me double check what I've read to make sure I've got it straight/. 1) If you have a class ability to create / have an ally, you get to take the ally no matter what. SO, if you're a THrallherd, Ranger. Wizard, or Fighter with the leadership feat you can ALWAYS take your THrall, Animal Companion, Familiar, or COhort (repectivly) with you. -- I didn't see psicrystal mentioned in here -- 2) You can get additional allies or an ally if you don't have a class feature based ally, but the rules limit you to a max CR of you ally of(ECL-5). 2a) You can break this rule if you're ONLY ally is a simple animal from the PHB. I'm a bit ... torn on the XP Penalty for using a class feature. In one corner we could have a ragin barbarian, moving fast and hitting hard. In the other is a ranger, sniping and getting the help of his friendly wolf companion. IMO the wolf companion ability is something that brings the ranger power up to the barbarian level, so a ranger having an animal companion in a fight is just like a barbarian raging during the fight. We don't penalize barbs for raging, but we penalize rangers for bringing their animal companion. OTOH, these are 1 on 1 arena matches not party vs monster, and 2v1 is very differant than 1v1, even if 1 of the 2 is a dog. Personally I wouldn't count a familiar or a psicrystal as a cohort / ally, but with the penalty for dead familiars I don't think we'll see many in the arena any more.
T'Var 03-27-05, 09:03 AM	Do metapsionic and/or psionic item creation feats count for being psionic feats for this?? the answer is No. All feats have a type, General, Fighter, Meta(magic/psionic), creation, and psionic Only feats that are psionic count, not meta or creation even if they use psionic features
spasheridan 03-27-05, 12:33 PM	I asked this in the fights thread, but didn't get an answer from an uinbaised 3rd party. Whip Token, Dodge. Say PC A deploys a whip token. Say PC B has declared PC A as their dodge target. WOuld Dodge apply to attacks made by the whip token? IF the whip token were a standard dancing weapon I believe that dodge would apply. However, the whip token uses it's BAB and not it's owners, so it's a special case. Any thoughts?? PS - Legion is coming to town. I've just about settled down on his setup. Any thoughts, suggestions, or violations.. please let me know. I'll probably run him this week if I have the credits to spare. And while I was creating a telepath before I saw the cohort rules, they inspired me to run with a thrallherd and see how it worked. SO, this brings up a fun question about being a thrallherd. Say I'm an 8th level PC with a thrall score of 13, netting me a 7th level thrall, 10 1st level believers and a 2nd level believer. Can I bring all 12 of my legion into the pit with me? What if my Thrall was a druid, can my thrall bring his pet with him? And more fun thrall questions, how do I build my thrall? I see allowable races on the rules part but I don't see how much cash / pts I use to make him. Thanks!
Zyme86 03-27-05, 07:25 PM	Dodge would apply. Because it "wields itself just like a dancing wepon" p264 DMG. A dancing wepon, though not directly held by the attacker, it "is considered wielded or armed by the creature for all menuvers and effects that target items" p224 DMG. Since the dodge applies to all attacks made by the creature (thrown, melee, or unarmed attacks), and the dancing wepon(ergo the token) is and attack made by the creature. It applies
Jindl 03-27-05, 08:22 PM	Some answers from an Elder (as if that makes them any more official :D): Are item creation/metapsionic feats considered "psionic feats" for purposes of the psionic body feat? T'Var is correct. The answer is No. If the wielder of a whip feather token is the target of the Dodge feat, does the ac bonus also apply against the whip? Zyme86 (and the others who posted on the FotW thread) are correct. As a dancing weapon, the attack is considered to originate from the wielder, so Dodge does apply. Re: Allies- The phrase "psicrystal or familiar" can be substituted for the word "familiar." At no time will class feature allies cause an XP penalty. With the exception of the Thrall, who is treated like a cohort instead of a class feature ally. Non-class feature allies will always cause an XP penalty, regardless of whether they are basic animals, cohorts, animated dead, or any other non-class feature ally. Hope this helps. -Jindl
Sindorin 03-27-05, 10:43 PM	@ All I'm sorry to say this, but I need a break from gaming in all of her forms right now. I'll be out for a couple weeks at least, a couple months at most. This doesn't have anything to do with my fight for this week, it's just something that I need to do. RL issues are cropping up and I wish to quell them before it gets out of control again. Thank you and good luck everyone. ~Sindorin
Caterane 03-28-05, 06:29 AM	@Sindorin: :bigeyes: :tantrum: :raincloud :allalone:
Snommelp 03-28-05, 11:16 AM	I hate to say it, but I too will be taking a temporary break from gaming. April is just a busy month for me; I have six concerts and two choir tours crammed in to the month of April and spilling over into the first week of May. I will most likely be returning after that (you guys are too much fun to leave forever). For the time being, I will be setting my four characters as inactive.
Sindorin 03-28-05, 12:20 PM	I hate to say it, but I too will be taking a temporary break from gaming. April is just a busy month for me; I have six concerts and two choir tours crammed in to the month of April and spilling over into the first week of May. I will most likely be returning after that (you guys are too much fun to leave forever). For the time being, I will be setting my four characters as inactive. It's definitely a busy time for a lot of us. I may try to keep at least one character active, if not two, but pitlording and questlording is probably out of the question for my own sanity's sake...
spasheridan 03-28-05, 03:42 PM	@ Cat: ABout Ixenthor's clothes. You say in their desciption that they are lead lined to block detect spells. Not to quibble, but quiblling is what I do best... so you need 1 solid inch of lead to block any detect spells. A solid inch of lead would be convceivable in say.. full plate that had an armo penalty, or maybe we could say that adamantine is the same as lead, but even then I doubt that it would be a full inch thick. The weight would be tremendous.
Huan 03-28-05, 04:35 PM	@ Cat: ABout Ixenthor's clothes. You say in their desciption that they are lead lined to block detect spells. Not to quibble, but quiblling is what I do best... so you need 1 solid inch of lead to block any detect spells. A solid inch of lead would be convceivable in say.. full plate that had an armo penalty, or maybe we could say that adamantine is the same as lead, but even then I doubt that it would be a full inch thick. The weight would be tremendous. Close, but the spell description says "1 inch of common metal, OR a thin sheet of lead."
spasheridan 03-28-05, 10:19 PM	Close, but the spell description says "1 inch of common metal, OR a thin sheet of lead." True! I saw another spell (detect hostile intent) that required a whole inch of lead to be stopped. SO, if the outfit is head to toe and contains a thin sheet of lead it will stop most detect spells from finding the wearer. Not the most... realistic of outfits for a warrior to wear if he wants full use of his arms, hands, and eyes and ears. but a thin sheet of lead should be easy enough to pound onto a full suit of armor.
Zyme86 03-28-05, 11:57 PM	Lead, as smithing material, is extremely poor for objects that need to bear stress, like armour or wepons, due to how brittle the nature of it is. One good hammer blow to that suit of armour and it would fall to pieces. Yes, you could make it out of lead for the anti-spell effects, but as a piece of physical defence, it royally sucks
Huan 03-29-05, 09:56 AM	Quick question: Can one draw a weapon during a charge?
spasheridan 03-29-05, 11:02 AM	If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you can combine one of these actions with a regular move. If you have the Two- Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one. I think this means no, you can't. I always though of a charge as a move + attack, but it's actually a single full round action so.. by the letter of the rules you'd need quick draw to ready a weapon before a charge. BUT, you can move / attack and have the horse charge for the +2 to hit.
Solmund 03-29-05, 03:45 PM	would it be possible for my character to trade in farshot for die-hard?
T'Var 03-29-05, 04:31 PM	would it be possible for my character to trade in farshot for die-hard? only if you have not used farshot in a match
Arstimis 03-29-05, 05:16 PM	only if you have not used farshot in a match I would even say, as long as you have not won a match using far shot.
Pitlords 03-29-05, 07:05 PM	would it be possible for my character to trade in farshot for die-hard? If you mean Solmund (or any other lvl 3 PC), go ahead.
Kaigan 03-30-05, 02:34 PM	I am just curious, does the one third spell rule apply also to paladins and rangers?
Sunwolf 03-30-05, 04:28 PM	Hello everyone! I have really enjoyed reading the fights posts and more recently the quests. I have been lurking for a while and finally decided to take the plunge and try out some builds. Maybe I will have something ready for next week... Cheers, Sunwolf
Pitlords 03-30-05, 05:24 PM	I am just curious, does the one third spell rule apply also to paladins and rangers? It is not a 1/3 spell rule but a 1/3 rule for everything with daily uses, including equipment, and yes, paladin and ranger spells. @Sunwolf: Welcome to the Core Coliseum! If you get your character finished within the next 24 hours and Viper sets Elishar ready I can pair you two this week. If you have any questions, just ask here! Have fun Cat
spasheridan 03-30-05, 08:28 PM	SO, I was thinking, as I made Legion, what was I missing?? OH yes, something to detect invisbility with. Well, this is 5th level, there's no way to get greater invis at 5th, it's a 4th level spell. Detect Hostile will work against sneaky rogues, blah blah blah.. I'll buy some invis busting powerstones later. I had this great plan. Powerstone of Expanded Crystal Spray (ML7). 30 foot range. I'd go invis, levitate, and detect hostile. When detect hostile dinged I would have a direction, more than enough for a 30 foot cone, and manifest the spray. NO save, no PR, just pure damage. Of course, I had better things to spend my cash on, and it's not a big deal just yet, so I'll wait a match or 2 before I prep for that eventuality. SO.. who's my 1st fight? Laph, the invisble pixie! Anywho, onto my question. Say I'm a Telepath floating around the arena with detect hostile intent on. What are the chances that knowing the direction your enemy is in would help you hit him with say an Energy Ray or Crystal Shard? Is it any help at all? Say you're a pixie who can turn invisible at will (free action even). If someone interupts your turn with a readied action to dispel your invisbility, can you turn it back on again? Thanks!
Pitlords 03-31-05, 07:11 AM	@ALL: There is a new guideline for posting allies on your sheet. The (sblock) command is a perfect way to fade out any ally not necessary for this fight. This is no rule but a guideline so I want to ask you to make the necessary change. What you must not use however is the (code) command for it makes pitlording allies very difficult. Below is the section on the Standard Sheet that has been changed. For a good example on how to post it see Archangel Ixenthor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179942)'s sheet. The following section is for abilities and statistics for your allies. You have to provide all important information for that ally similar to those used to describe your character though this information can have any format. Do NOT use the (code) command to post your allies! In order to make the sheet as functional as possible, use the (sblock) command. This is to make it more obvious where your information ends and your allies information begins, and that one can close allies not used in the fight. Use a seperate (sblocks) for each ally, and also write the ally name atop the (sblock) so that Pitlords know which block they have to open. (Ally name) (Ally name) etc... see above. --------------------------------------------- @Spash: No, you cannot use it to pinpoint the creature (this is specifically written in the power description). I'd say general direction means something like a cone towards the 4 cardinal points (North, East, West, South), relative to your position.
spasheridan 03-31-05, 11:00 AM	@ Pitlords- Yeah, I'm grasping at straws here... Another rules question. Say a PC has the augment summoning feat. Say that PC uses a scroll of Summon X. Do the summoned monsters from the scroll have the augment summoning feat applied to them or is using a scroll NOT casting a spell?
Jindl 03-31-05, 11:04 AM	@ Pitlords- Yeah, I'm grasping at straws here... Another rules question. Say a PC has the augment summoning feat. Say that PC uses a scroll of Summon X. Do the summoned monsters from the scroll have the augment summoning feat applied to them or is using a scroll NOT casting a spell? Augment summoning does not enhance any effects from magic items (except for staves).
Jindl 03-31-05, 11:52 AM	Okay, I have some confusion regarding treasure from a Quest: According to the FAQ, the treasure for each fight is based on the EL of the fight, per the table. So each EL 5 encounter should give 1600 gp of treasure. Since an EL 5 quest has 3 encounters, the total treasure for an EL 5 quest should be 4800 gp. Now there is also a quest completion bonus of +33%, which marks the total treasure up to 6384 gp. What confuses me is that Archangel Ixenthor just completed an EL 5 quest, where his only treasure item was a Bronze Gifforn (Figurine of Wondrous Power), which has a market price of 10000 gp. That seems to be almost double the treasure he should have received for the quest. Even if you assume that the item has only 3/4ths value (which you really shouldn't, since that item was the goal of the quest and the 3/4ths value rule exists to account for items that are less useful to the pc), that is still 7500 gp, which is significantly more than the total treasure for the quest. I just don't understand ... -Jindl
spasheridan 03-31-05, 12:55 PM	SPell question: What would a charm person spell do in an arena? Would it end the match? Can the charmed person be commaned to forfiet? Can the charmed person be commaned to strip naked? Can the charmed person be commanded to fail their next save or a spell? Thanks!
T'Var 03-31-05, 01:33 PM	SPell question: What would a charm person spell do in an arena? Would it end the match? Can the charmed person be commaned to forfiet? Can the charmed person be commaned to strip naked? Can the charmed person be commanded to fail their next save or a spell? Thanks! you could sugjest they surrender which they would probably do. stripping naked would give a second save as it would be a possable fatal sugjestion. any attack breaks the spell so if you cast hostile magic on them they would be able to save normally
Jindl 03-31-05, 01:56 PM	SPell question: What would a charm person spell do in an arena? Would it end the match? Can the charmed person be commaned to forfiet? Can the charmed person be commaned to strip naked? Can the charmed person be commanded to fail their next save or a spell? Thanks! In the past it has been used to disarm an opponent. "Hey, we're freinds right. So why don't we toss away our weapons to prove it." Charming your opponent's ally is a good way to get them to stop attacking you, although they wouldn't necessarily turn on their master. Charmed opponent's cannot forfeit the match, as arena matches continue until the death of one opponent. A charmed opponent would be willing to accept a spell being cast upon them by their new friend, as long as they believed it to be a beneficial spell. So a fighter might volunteer to fail his save against phantasmal killer, if you told him it was really a cure wounds spell (or something). But don't try that one somebody with a good spellcraft skill. And of course, after casting the spell, the charm effect would be broken, becuase you attacked. Altogether, charm person is still only a 1st level spell. So don't expect it to be a major effect on fights. But used creatively, it can be helpful. -Jindl
xanadu 03-31-05, 02:22 PM	Hey folks, I am really in a bind here with my homebrewed campaign and it is causing much frustration. I wonder if you can help me find an official reference for warhorses automatically defending their ally. I am playing a paper and pencil campaign and my DM will not allow my heavy warhorse to defend me when I am under attack because he is under the impression that is only something druid's animal campanions and paladin's special mounts do. Note: I pointed out the refence under the defend trick which states "The animal defends you (or is ready to defend you if no threat is present), even without any command being given." He is not convinced. He is very adamant that he is right and I need either a more explicit reference or some advice as to how to convince him that warhorse defense is not something exclusive to special companions.
Caterane 03-31-05, 02:22 PM	Okay, I have some confusion regarding treasure from a Quest: According to the FAQ, the treasure for each fight is based on the EL of the fight, per the table. So each EL 5 encounter should give 1600 gp of treasure. Since an EL 5 quest has 3 encounters, the total treasure for an EL 5 quest should be 4800 gp. Now there is also a quest completion bonus of +33%, which marks the total treasure up to 6384 gp. What confuses me is that Archangel Ixenthor just completed an EL 5 quest, where his only treasure item was a Bronze Gifforn (Figurine of Wondrous Power), which has a market price of 10000 gp. That seems to be almost double the treasure he should have received for the quest. Even if you assume that the item has only 3/4ths value (which you really shouldn't, since that item was the goal of the quest and the 3/4ths value rule exists to account for items that are less useful to the pc), that is still 7500 gp, which is significantly more than the total treasure for the quest. I just don't understand ... -Jindl The quest reward is 6400 gp (normally we multiply the single reward by 4 instead of adding 33% so that the number is even). Griffon Statue 10000 *3/4 = 7500 gp. Ixenthor has payed 1000 gp during the quest. The image of Corona was just a plot item with which to sunder the demonchains, and had no other purpose than a roleplaying one. So 6400 + 1000 = 7400. There are still 100 gp missing but I think Huan smashed some of my alchemist fires against something. EDIT: I just saw that the 1000 gp don't appear in the Quest Summary but I did substract them (you can check my sheet if you want; I didn't edit it). @Huan: Please add the 1000 gp to the Quest Summary under Expenditures. Thanks. @Xanadu: AFAIK this is the only reference for the defend trick but it couldn't be any clearer. Ask your DM what else it could mean if not what you and the CoCo thinks it means.
Jindl 03-31-05, 02:26 PM	The quest reward is 6400 gp (normally we multiply the single reward by 4 instead of adding 33% so that the number is even). Griffon Statue 10000 *3/4 = 7500 gp. Ixenthor has payed 1000 gp during the quest. The image of Corona was just a plot item with which to sunder the demonchains, and had no other purpose than a roleplaying one. So 6400 + 1000 = 7400. There are still 100 gp missing but I think Huan smashed some of my alchemist fires against something. Okay, so then the pc's can pay some of their own wealth, if the item sought is more than the quest reward. Do you think we should / should not apply the 3/4ths rule to the item sought in the quest? It matters for the quest I am running, because Fyhir is seeking 4500 gp of mithril ore, but he should only recieve 3555 gp as his share of the treasure. Now if I apply the 3/4ths rule to the ore, then it becomes 3375 gp, which is within the guidelines for his share. But since that is the item he is seeking, should we really be applying the 3/4ths rule? If not, then he needs to give up ~900 gp of equipment in order to recieve the item (which may just mean he gives up his existing armor). What do you think? -Jindl
T'Var 03-31-05, 02:41 PM	Hey folks, I am really in a bind here with my homebrewed campaign and it is causing much frustration. I wonder if you can help me find an official reference for warhorses automatically defending their ally. I am playing a paper and pencil campaign and my DM will not allow my heavy warhorse to defend me when I am under attack because he is under the impression that is only something druid's animal campanions and paladin's special mounts do. Note: I pointed out the refence under the defend trick which states "The animal defends you (or is ready to defend you if no threat is present), even without any command being given." He is not convinced. He is very adamant that he is right and I need either a more explicit reference or some advice as to how to convince him that warhorse defense is not something exclusive to special companions. well it is quite clearly written in the rules that is what defend trick is for. I would almost tell him if he is unwilling to follow the rules of the game as it is clearly written than druid's animal campanions and paladin's special mounts cannot and will not do it either because nowhere is it written in there discriptions that they will defend there masters. they are stonger and there is a magical bond but there is nothing written that gives them the willingness to defend EXCEPT the defend trick. even druids companions do not have the defend trick unless they are trained to do so.
Sunwolf 03-31-05, 04:44 PM	@Cat Don't know if I made it by the deadline to be paired this week or if Viper set elishar ready. If not, starting next week is still fine. Sunwolf
spasheridan 04-01-05, 03:33 AM	If an invisible PC attempts to take an action that would cancel invis but fails in the action (say cast a spell and fails a concentration check) does the invisibility go away??
Pittbull 04-01-05, 07:53 AM	The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. (Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character’s perceptions.) Concentration and targeting take place in the same moment. If you want to hit somebody, but do not hit, invisibility goes away too. The defintion says not casting a spell, but targeting, only the try is enough to end invisibility.
Jindl 04-01-05, 10:38 AM	Concentration and targeting take place in the same moment. If you want to hit somebody, but do not hit, invisibility goes away too. The defintion says not casting a spell, but targeting, only the try is enough to end invisibility. I disagree. The invisibility spell says the effect ends when you attack, not when you intend to attack. If the concentration check fails, then no spell was cast, and no attack occurred, so the invisibility effect continues. By the same reasoning, if you attempted to snipe with a spell, and the concentration check failed, then no spell was cast, and you don't take the -20 to your hide check for sniping. -Jindl
Cerebus13 04-01-05, 04:52 PM	I was tossing around the idea of making a cleric but ran into some problems when looking through the FAQ. Since deities are not listed in the SRD (at least not that I can see), do we still use them? If we don't use them can we just choose 2 domains as explained in the cleric class description? And what about the War domain, if you don't pick a deity for it would you get to choose a weapon to apply it to?
T'Var 04-01-05, 05:11 PM	Ok have i gotten hacked or does everyones mouse leave a little flower trail in the front page of the CoCo???
Caterane 04-01-05, 05:14 PM	@Cerebus: You can pick any deity (or invent one), pick any 2 domains in the SRD, and choose any simple or martial weapon for the War Domain. @T'Var: No drugs!! :D Where can I find the Sublime Chord PrC?
Sindorin 04-01-05, 05:16 PM	I've got that thing trailing my cursor as well...
T'Var 04-01-05, 05:17 PM	@Cerebus: You can pick any deity (or invent one), pick any 2 domains in the SRD, and choose any simple or martial weapon for the War Domain. @T'Var: No drugs!! :D Where can I find the Sublime Chord PrC? Im clean I swear!! it is in the Complete Adventurer
Zyme86 04-01-05, 05:19 PM	Has the majority of our moderators gone and taken the red pill? Remember the rabbit is bad, dont follow it. Or get a Mac and avoin all complications
Arstimis 04-01-05, 05:21 PM	Ok have i gotten hacked or does everyones mouse leave a little flower trail in the front page of the CoCo??? I dont know if it's because I use Mozilla Firefox for internet as opposed to Internet Explorer, but the flowers just stay in the top left. I clicked it and it led to the Wizards of the Coast main page
spasheridan 04-01-05, 05:21 PM	The flower thing doesnt seem to hack firefox, just IE
T'Var 04-01-05, 05:23 PM	damned april fools wizO prank probably
Zyme86 04-01-05, 05:31 PM	Anyone, got a good smite evil spell prepared?
Jindl 04-01-05, 06:40 PM	damned april fools wizO prank probably I think its pretty funny. But not quite as funny as when they converted everything into Mr. "T" speak...
Caterane 04-01-05, 07:12 PM	Yeah, or that the boards don't work half of the year :ayyyy!: Ok, probably not their best prank
Kaigan 04-01-05, 07:45 PM	Hi everyone. With Cat's approval I will be starting a quest for two characters. Hopefully the characters already have history, but if not, hey, that's part of the fun isn't it. well contact me if your interested, I can start as early as next wednesday. Kaigan
Cerebus13 04-02-05, 02:15 AM	@Sindorin It appears that you are using Photobucket to host your maps, and they have about a 250kb limit on file sizes. Since you're saving the pictures as .bmp files they might be a bit bigger than normal...could you save them as a different format to save space maybe? .png has better quality, but .jpg or .gif are even smaller than that I think.
jstorrie 04-02-05, 04:04 AM	Hallo CoCo. Being a very stubborn sort, I have decided to create a very odd bard for play in Gladius. Anyone who can figure exactly what ridiculous build I'm planning for this character gets a cookie. Hint: it is a very evil cookie!
Pitlords 04-02-05, 05:02 AM	@Jstorrie: Hi and welcome to the CoCo! Your character has been added to the Roster. Your character will be paired next wednesday (wednesday = pairings day). If you have any questions, please ask. @All Pitlords: Please remember that allies have an impact on XP and gold now! If you enter with an ally, you take a -25% xp and gp penalty. If your opponoment enters with an ally, you get a +33% xp and gp bonus. That means, if both of you or none of you have an ally, it evens itself out and both get the regular xp and gold. Please note that there is also a cap on how much gold and xp you get in case of a loss. For XP you may never get more than your ECL*100 if you lose. Example: ECL 3 gladiator loses against a ECL 10 gladiator because he challenged him. He would gain 10800 xp divide by 3 = 3600 XP. Because of the cap he cannot get more than his ECL*100 which is 300 XP. The Gold Cap has its own table, foundable in the FAQ: Arena Combat (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5222369) and soon FAQ: About Pitlording. Use the same method I've just displayed for xp. There is no cap for winning a fight. Your own Maximum gold reward ECL/CR for losing a fight 1 100 2 200 3 300 4 400 5 533 6 666 7 866 8 1,133 9 1,500 10 1,933 11 2,500 12 3,266 13 4,333 14 5,666 15 7.333 16 9,333 17 12,000 18 15,666 19 20,333 20 26,666 There are two fights where this has to be corrected: Kaigan: Rakkar entered with an ally while Azer entered alone. Result: Rakkar wins and gains 675 xp, and 675 gp [-25%] Azer loses and gains 300 xp, and 300 gp [+33% but capped to ECL*100] Spasheridan: Gabriel's dog is a druid's companion which is tailored into his CR so he effectively didn't use an (xp/gp sucking) ally. Result: Arstimis won! He gained 900 GP/XP [-25%] Gabriel lost, He gains 400 XP/GP [+33% but capped to ECL*100] PS: with 33% I mean a recurring decimal.
Arstimis 04-02-05, 05:38 AM	Arstimis won! He gained 900 GP/XP [-25%] Gabriel lost, He gains 400 XP/GP [+33% but capped to ECL*100] PS: with 33% I mean a recurring decimal. The Only reason I brought my horse in was because I did not think there was an exp penalty for him. Orignally I did think there would be, but after reading over the FAQ I got the impression that there was not because he was a basic animal. And according to your FAQ I should not use EXP [quote=From FAQ]Do cohorts and allies have an impact on treasure and XP? Yes, most of them do. If you receive the help of any cohort or ally in a battle, you lose 1/4 of the XP and 1/4 of the gold you would have gotten in that fight. Your allies do not get any of this XP or gold; it is simply lost. The number and power of allies helping is unimportant; if you are helped by one or more cohorts or allies, you get 1/4 less gold or XP. The only exceptions are the class feature allies of Druids, Rangers, Paladins, Wizards, and Sorcerers, and a single basic bought animal. These allies are the only ones whose help does not cost gold and XP.
Pitlords 04-02-05, 07:38 AM	Sigh, seems like I forgot to delete that sentence. Alright, since the law is on your side Arty, it doesn't count against your xp and gold reward, although I have mentioned it several times within the last weeks. ;)
Arstimis 04-02-05, 09:39 AM	Sigh, seems like I forgot to delete that sentence. Alright, since the law is on your side Arty, it doesn't count against your xp and gold reward, although I have mentioned it several times within the last weeks. ;) Exactly, that is what I thought as well. But then I read the FAQ a couple times and added the horse anyways. Also..the horse did nothing so his presense would not have mattered at all
Kaigan 04-02-05, 11:35 AM	So does Rakkar still only gain 675 xp/gp, or can I use Arti's reasoning as well?
Jindl 04-02-05, 11:50 AM	Sigh, seems like I forgot to delete that sentence. Alright, since the law is on your side Arty, it doesn't count against your xp and gold reward, although I have mentioned it several times within the last weeks. ;) I think that means the change is postponed 1 more week. -Jindl
Cerebus13 04-02-05, 12:58 PM	@Elders & Rules guru type people, 1) Can an ECL 3 character bring a 4 HD ally (like Heavy Warhorse) or does it fall under the no CR allies rule of no more than your HD? 2) Can a player decide to bring an ally to the arena based on whether or not their opponent is bringing one? Or do we have to guess when we send in tactics?
Jindl 04-02-05, 01:12 PM	@Elders & Rules guru type people, 1) Can an ECL 3 character bring a 4 HD ally (like Heavy Warhorse) or does it fall under the no CR allies rule of no more than your HD? 2) Can a player decide to bring an ally to the arena based on whether or not their opponent is bringing one? Or do we have to guess when we send in tactics? 1. This is the last week we are allowing this. From now on, allies are limited to HD = ECL of the PC, with the exception of class feature allies (animal companions, special mounts, etc). 2. I think we are going to start listing which allies are brought to the fight as a prebuff. -Jindl
Snommelp 04-02-05, 04:22 PM	April Fool's Day was yesterday, right? Because I just got a weird PM about how somebody "admires my posts." It almost sounds like the WotC boards are transitioning into one of those dating service websites... In other news, I think I will be coming back, but as a player only. It doesn't take me too long to write and send tactics, but with my hectic concert schedule (also with my new GF) it would be very hard to find time to run fights. For this week, Don Quixote rides again! And the pseudodragon who has become pampered from living with nymphs and dryads is going to have another go, as well.
Master_of_Flames 04-02-05, 05:39 PM	i have a question- are we able to use things such are pistols? the stuff is in the dmg and i'd like to know.
Snommelp 04-02-05, 05:45 PM	i have a question- are we able to use things such are pistols? the stuff is in the dmg and i'd like to know. Nope, no guns. I forget what the reasoning behind the decision was, but I think it had something to do with the fact that guns were an optional add-on to the standard rules as listed.
xanadu 04-02-05, 06:01 PM	Hmm. I just thought of something. Can RakkaR the Reckless use his farmer profession to earn a few extra gold during the week? It is after all a standard rule :D
Kingside_Bishop 04-02-05, 07:58 PM	Hey, everyone! I just wanted to ask a question... Is the sundering of weapons allowed? And if so, is it bad form? Thanks.
Kaigan 04-02-05, 08:07 PM	Welcome. Nope, sundering is allowed, and it is not considered bad form, as all sundered items are repaired for free after the fight, thanks to the "Nimbus".
One_Winged_Angel 04-03-05, 12:39 AM	...I return! Serious, it is good to be back. I'll figure out what I'm going to do, but I thought I'd let everyone know I'm back. In the meantime, I have gotten 10 hours of sleep over the past three nights, so I am going to sleep!
Kaigan 04-03-05, 03:17 AM	Just letting every know that I am going to be running a quest, so if anyone wants any items or anthing, yeah, PM me, this will be for two characters
Cerebus13 04-03-05, 11:15 AM	@Rules Gurus again 1) Can we purchase scrolls with metamagic feats applies to them with the properly raised caster level? (Extend spell for example, would raise the CL by 1) 2) If we raise the manifester level on a Power Stone could we use the extra power points available (the max PPs that can be spent is equal to ML) to augment the power as listed in the description? (Expansion for example normally costs 1 PP, but if you augment it with 2 more PPs you can increase the duration from 1 round/ML to 10 mins/ML)
Jindl 04-03-05, 11:24 AM	@Rules Gurus again 1) Can we purchase scrolls with metamagic feats applies to them with the properly raised caster level? (Extend spell for example, would raise the CL by 1) 2) If we raise the manifester level on a Power Stone could we use the extra power points available (the max PPs that can be spent is equal to ML) to augment the power as listed in the description? (Expansion for example normally costs 1 PP, but if you augment it with 2 more PPs you can increase the duration from 1 round/ML to 10 mins/ML) 1. Yes. 2. Yes.
xanadu 04-05-05, 02:52 AM	Just so I understand this correctly. It is now illegal for ECL 3 charactes to have a heavy warhorse as per: Firstly, you can always have one of the nine basic animals you can buy (guard dog, riding dog, donkey, heavy horse, light horse, heavy warhorse, light warhorse, pony, and warpony), even though they would breach the CR limit of your ECL-5. Instead there is a special limit for those allies: their HD must not be greater than your ECL. These basic animals still count as an ally so you cannot bring along any other ally unless your ECL is high enough to support more than one (remember: ECL-5 is the limit). Example: A level 3 character (ECL 3) could bring in a bought Light Warhorse even though its CR 1 is more than your ECL-5. He may not bring in a Heavy Warhorse because its HD (4) exceed your ECL (3). If this is so, I would suggest removing: You may buy any one of the nine basic animals listed in the "Goods and Services" table. You do not have to go on a Quest to acquire these animals. The animals that can be bought are the following: guard dog, riding dog, donkey, heavy horse, light horse, heavy warhorse, light warhorse, pony, and warpony. Note that these "basic bought animals" do not follow the ECL-5 limit for creatures without LA. Normally, for allies without ECL (that means they only have a CR but no LA, like these bought animals have) the maximum amount of allies you can bring into a fight is your ECL-5. Example: A level 3 gladiator (ECL 3) may bring in a Heavy Warhorse (CR 2) Which appears earlier on the same page in the FAQ.
Caterane 04-05-05, 04:08 AM	Thanks a lot Xanadu! I have to browse through the complete FAQ again but if anyone of you finds another outdated reference, please contact me! I will also make it known (for all Artys out there :D j/k) that this rule will be in effect from wednesday on.
Cerebus13 04-05-05, 12:08 PM	Crap. I forgot that a couple of metamagic feats (like energy substitution) have Knowledge(arcana) as a prerequisite. Would it be possible for me to adjust my druid toon's skills to swap points into this skill from another one that was meaningless in my first fight? (spellcraft in this case) I would also like to dump a single point into Autohypnosis since I've seen so many fights won by allies after a player was disabled :P.
Jindl 04-05-05, 12:56 PM	Crap. I forgot that a couple of metamagic feats (like energy substitution) have Knowledge(arcana) as a prerequisite. Okay, as long as you didn't use it in a fight yet. Remember that it's cross class for druids. Would it be possible for me to adjust my druid toon's skills to swap points into this skill from another one that was meaningless in my first fight? (spellcraft in this case) I would also like to dump a single point into Autohypnosis since I've seen so many fights won by allies after a player was disabled :P. FYI: Autohypnosis only helps when you are at 0 hp. You can't use the skill if you are negative. -Jindl
Zyme86 04-05-05, 01:26 PM	are the feats out of the Lebris Mourtis allowed in the collesseum?
Sindorin 04-05-05, 01:29 PM	Only if they are "Core", meaning that they are reprinted elsewhere in the core rulebooks or the System Reference Document (SRD). Those are the only allowed materials. These are the books that I know for a fact you can use: -3.5 Player's Handbook -3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide -3.5 Monter Manual -Expanded Psionics Handbook (minus Thri-kreen character and weapons) There are parts of the complete divine book and other stuff in the SRD, but I am unsure what exactly they are printed in. They have yet to be widely used.
Pittbull 04-05-05, 01:32 PM	are the feats out of the Lebris Mourtis allowed in the collesseum? Sorry, only the core-rule books. See:Our definition of "Core" means everything that can be found in one of the following four sources (all D&D 3.5 sources): the Player's Handbook (PHB), the Dungeon Master's Guide (DMG), the Monster Manual (MM), and the 3.5 System Reference Document (SRD). Every D&D rule used in the Core Coliseum can be found in one of those four sources.
KerlanRayne 04-05-05, 02:03 PM	2) Can a player decide to bring an ally to the arena based on whether or not their opponent is bringing one? Or do we have to guess when we send in tactics?I think we should be allowed to do this. We should not make it a prebuff because it is mostly treated like other equipment. We could write "Only use ally if opponent does too" and add to it "If opponent has same contingency, then do/don't use ally." Understand? KerlanRayne
Kingside_Bishop 04-05-05, 08:06 PM	I've another question, this time asking how the Pitlords would interpret a particular rule. If someone is prone, can they still take a 5-foot step? From the PHB glossary: "You can't take a 5-foot step if your movement is hampered, such as into a square of difficult terrain, in darkness, or when blinded." Thanks!
Zyme86 04-05-05, 08:13 PM	Even if you on the ground, you can still crawl
Caterane 04-05-05, 08:16 PM	If you're prone you can "crawl" 5ft as a move action that provokes an AoO (PHB,p142)
Kingside_Bishop 04-05-05, 08:21 PM	Welcome. Nope, sundering is allowed, and it is not considered bad form, as all sundered items are repaired for free after the fight, thanks to the "Nimbus".Thanks. If you're prone you can "crawl" 5ft as a move action that provokes an AoO (PHB,p142)Thanks. Thanks, everyone.
xanadu 04-05-05, 11:57 PM	Wow, I just noticed Eniolissaryn the Elder is 11-0. I always thought those vernerable wizards with no con or dex weren't viable characters but I guess I am wrong...
Sindorin 04-06-05, 12:08 AM	I have tried to kill him twice when pitlording but he just WON'T DIE!!!! ;) j/k
jstorrie 04-06-05, 12:39 AM	If a wilder manifests a long-duration 'prebuff', how is his wild surge ability adjudicated? Does she simply have a % chance of having lost the power points before any given match that she brings the prebuff to?
Pitlords 04-06-05, 03:50 AM	If a wilder manifests a long-duration 'prebuff', how is his wild surge ability adjudicated? Does she simply have a % chance of having lost the power points before any given match that she brings the prebuff to? As it is now you cannot use anything that requires a check outside the arena, unless you can take 20 or any other 100% way to do it. However, I am considering to change this although I am not sure wether this should become GM/Elder duty, or if the pitlord should handle such roles when moderating the fight.
Cerebus13 04-06-05, 09:33 AM	I might be missing something in the SRD but I can't figure out where the Intimidating and Reckless Rage feats are that are listed on the character Daka: http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5768687 Are those from Complete Warrior or something? In any event, if they aren't allowed material they should probably be changed :/.
Zyme86 04-06-05, 10:19 AM	they dont They have been changed They are from the complete warrior Pardon my ignorance
Salzorin 04-06-05, 11:58 AM	I just looked at Daka, curious to see what you used as replacement feats and couldn't help but notice that you took the diehard feat. Problem is, diehard has a pre-req of endurance...
Sindorin 04-06-05, 12:05 PM	hehe, it would probably get confusing very quickly if I didn't have an avatar...
Jindl 04-06-05, 12:05 PM	Hey guys, We appreciate you checking each other's sheets for errors. I just want to point you to the right place to hold such discussions: The Character Violations Thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5829108#post5829108) Please continue your discussion there, so that Pitlords will be aware of it. ;) Thanks! -Jindl
xanadu 04-06-05, 01:24 PM	the diehard feat. Problem is, diehard has a pre-req of endurance... You are joking right? Got to love those crummy feats that have an even crummier feat as a pre-req :D
Zyme86 04-06-05, 06:40 PM	Your kidding right I have witnessed, esepecially in fighter battles that having the ability to strike when you would normally be unconcinuous could have turned around many a game
Salzorin 04-07-05, 12:49 AM	Hmm... here's a question that probably everybody already has an answer for... except for me: In the skill description of Ride, the action of taking Cover has the text: "You can react instantly to drop down and hang alongside your mount, using it as cover. You can’t attack or cast spells while using your mount as cover. If you fail your Ride check, you don’t get the cover benefit. This usage does not take an action." It says clearly that you can't attack or cast spells while using cover... so obviously you have to come out of cover to take an attack action. The question is, can your opponent just ready an action for when you attack, assuring that you lose the 4 AC cover bonus? It makes sense in physicality, "wait 'til you see the whites of their eyes" and all, and it seems that the rules state clearly that you would have to interrupt cover for the time you take an attack. So the question is just whether or not a readied action can interrupt that time where you hop up onto your horse to take a shot at your opponent...
Snommelp 04-07-05, 01:20 AM	It works, Salzorin. At least, it should work by the rules, although there may be people who disagree with me. You just have to make sure your trigger is either the attack or moving back to cover, since the readied action technically happens before the trigger.
spasheridan 04-07-05, 01:54 AM	IMO the rule is clear. You can take the cover check at any time other than an attack OR a spell casting. It seems to me that this means that readied attacks against an attack / spell and AoO incurred by attacks / spell casting would be the only cases where the mounted combatant would not be allowed a ride check. In another matter, there's something I've been wondering about. Sundered weapons are repaired after a fight, but used items are not replaced. I know that in one of my matches one gladiator cast shatter on another in the hopes of destroying their potions. As pitlord I decided that the nimbus would restore these potions. What about a case where gladiator A managed to steal gladiator B's potions during a battle. If gladiator A drank them, would they be restored after the fight? Thanks!
Salzorin 04-07-05, 02:00 AM	A potion thief, eh?... that's a pretty funny thought. My question added on to that would be... say Gladiator A stole a potion from Gladiator B but didn't drink it... would it be added to Gladiator A's inventory even after the fight?
Caterane 04-07-05, 04:50 AM	Items that are sundered and potions or other items that have been destroyed are replaced for free. The reason behind this is that we don't want gladiators being able to damage other gladiators financially. In the dawn of the arena we witnessed just that: you lost the fight but you destroyed the expensive +1 flaming greatsword so your opponoment lost much more. Or familiar hunting. Or spellbook tearing. It might stretch your imagination a bit but it is necessary. Items that are used up by the wielder are never replaced. He chose to use them so they are gone. Now the potion thief is an interesting question. Normally, it would be the same as destroying the potion thus it should be replaced but I also kinda like this thought. If he would steal and drink it, he would definately benefit from the potion while it would not be accessible to the victim anymore. Perhaps we can decide upon that once someone makes such a character; until then, the potion is replaced. In any case, the potion is not added to the thief's sheet.
Cerebus13 04-07-05, 11:20 AM	Question about druids and their animal companions: Could a druid go on a short quest to get a new animal and begin training them before actually making them their new companion? I'm curious because training an animal for combat riding takes 6 weeks so being able to do it beforehand would speed up the process quite a bit.
Sunwolf 04-07-05, 11:21 AM	From reading the FAQ, bringing in an ally costs you a 25% penalty on gold and xp. Fighting someone who brings in an ally gains a 33% bonus. Here is a little chart: A and B are galdiators and (ally) signifies that gladiator brought in an ally. The contents of the table are the % rewards for A/B. A wins B wins A vs B 100/100 100/100 A(ally) vs B(ally) 100/100 100/100 A vs B(ally) 133/75 100/75 A(ally) vs B 75/100 75/133 So a gladiator that comes by himself and loses to someone with an ally gets a bonus but in most standard matches (equal ECLs) hits the xp/gp cap and doesn't really get a bonus for a tougher fight. :confused: Is that how the rule is supposed to work?
Jindl 04-07-05, 11:26 AM	Question about druids and their animal companions: Could a druid go on a short quest to get a new animal and begin training them before actually making them their new companion? I'm curious because training an animal for combat riding takes 6 weeks so being able to do it beforehand would speed up the process quite a bit. Yes, you can quest for a trained animal companion (see JotHF's recent quest: Searching for an Old Friend). -Jindl
Sindorin 04-07-05, 12:29 PM	This may be a very silly question, but does bringing a psicrystal (which you must take a feat to get, so it is not necessarily a class ally) affect acquired exp/gp?
Pittbull 04-07-05, 01:36 PM	Since the psi-crystal is like a familiar, it should be handle like one, so it doesn't affect the acquired XP/gp. But this is not official, shall the Pitlord rule....
spasheridan 04-07-05, 01:39 PM	SO, about allies. I have a few questions. 1- say I'm a wizard / psion. Does my familiar / psicrystal cause me to earn less XP? 2 - say I'm a ranger / druid. Does my animal compantion cause me to earn less XP? 3 - say I'm a fighter with leadership / thrallheard. Does my cohort / thrall cause me to earn less XP? I believe the answers are : NO, NO, YES. Is that correct? 1-no, 2-no, 3-yes. It's on the 1st page of the fights of the week.
Sindorin 04-07-05, 01:50 PM	I suppose the main difference that threw me off was that you don't get the psicrystal as a class bonus, you have to take a feat.
spasheridan 04-07-05, 02:06 PM	Hrm.. I didn't think of that. Then again, Leadership is a feat and thrallheard is a class feature. I believe that main thrust was that basic class features / allies are OK. They are generally part of a balanced class, so a ranger has d8 hit die but an animal companion. A druid get's full cleric casting abilities, shapechange, a cartload of special powers, but no domains so they throw in animal companions like dire tigers... Hrm... Yeah, it's weird. It looks like it's mostly art and not science. IN other news, Legion is planning taking THrallheard at level 6. Is there any direction on how I construct his thrall?
Caterane 04-08-05, 02:19 PM	Question about druids and their animal companions: Could a druid go on a short quest to get a new animal and begin training them before actually making them their new companion? I'm curious because training an animal for combat riding takes 6 weeks so being able to do it beforehand would speed up the process quite a bit. Well, there still should be a limitation else the training time is useless. I'd say you can only quest for one of the Packages (like Combat riding) and only those who get animals as class feature should be able to do it (ie druids, rangers). Ixenthor just returned from a Direbat quest but that beast knows nothing. I'll think about it some more. Thoughts?
Cerebus13 04-08-05, 02:41 PM	It makes sense to limit it to class companions, otherwise everyone could have a combat riding trained dinosaur with little effort. However my thoughts on the matter were to allow an animal companion class to short quest for a new companion early and train them in the meantime while maintaining their current companion. Once they have achieved the proper level to be allowed the new companion they could swap in the newly trained beast (or partially trained one if they started later). This would make upgrading to new companions take time and some planning ahead if you want to have a one with a full complement of tricks.
spasheridan 04-08-05, 02:49 PM	QUest rating right now is something like ECL = CR of desired companion. Maybe we could make it ECL = CR + 1 for desirec companion who has 3 tricks chosen or a premade package (hunting, riding, whatever). For a companion with 6 pre-chosen tricks (max for the animal before it becomes a companion) we could make the ECL = CR + 2. Does that seem reasonable?? It might make it too hard though.
Snommelp 04-08-05, 08:25 PM	Hey, I just noticed that Kaigan's got a two man quest open. I guess I missed the anouncement. If you're still looking for people, Kaigan, Cedric would be happy to accompany someone on a quest. After all, who wouldn't want a healer to tag along?
Pitlords 04-09-05, 11:00 AM	From reading the FAQ, bringing in an ally costs you a 25% penalty on gold and xp. Fighting someone who brings in an ally gains a 33% bonus. Here is a little chart: A and B are galdiators and (ally) signifies that gladiator brought in an ally. The contents of the table are the % rewards for A/B. A wins B wins A vs B 100/100 100/100 A(ally) vs B(ally) 100/100 100/100 A vs B(ally) 133/75 100/75 A(ally) vs B 75/100 75/133 So a gladiator that comes by himself and loses to someone with an ally gets a bonus but in most standard matches (equal ECLs) hits the xp/gp cap and doesn't really get a bonus for a tougher fight. :confused: Is that how the rule is supposed to work? Hm, you're right. If someone knows his opponoment is bringing in an ally he wouldn't lose anything by bringing one on his own. Ok, I will change the rule so that this bonus is applied AFTER the cap. Active from this week on.
Kaigan 04-09-05, 01:50 PM	That's perfect, so I'll have sean's angel, and Cedric the cleric, aweseome
Snommelp 04-09-05, 04:46 PM	ECL 5 angel and ECL 3 cleric... it will be a most holy adventure. Now for something completely different: Ride-by Attack. The description says "you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again." I would take this to mean that a person who attempts a ride-by gets all of the bonuses and penalties associated with a charge, including extra damage if that person also has the Spirited Charge feat. Would I be correct in that?
Snommelp 04-09-05, 05:46 PM	Hm... on second thought, Kaigan, perhaps you should find someone else for your quest. I had forgotten momentarily that I have several concerts coming up in the near future.
Kaigan 04-09-05, 07:52 PM	Sure Actually, @Cat: I can't do the quest, I have finals coming up really soon, and I need to study, study study.
Cerebus13 04-10-05, 02:17 PM	@Rules Gurus A section of the SRD (described here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#strengthStr)) says: A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow. This means that a lower Strength than 10 won't affect damage with Composite Bows. However, you need to wield a Composite Bow that is tailored to a Strength that is less than or equal to your own or else you take a -2 penalty to attacks. Would it be possible to purchase a Composite Bow that is tailored to a Strength lower than 10? There are no rules forbidding it at all and I cannot find anything in Rules of the Game articles or other Wizard's sources. This was brought to my attention in the Character Violations thread but never received a definite answer one way or the other.
Snommelp 04-10-05, 02:27 PM	As much as I'd like for that to work, Cerebus, it looks like your answer is "no" according to my PHB. The reasoning behind this answer is the pricing for added strength bonuses. For each +1 to the bow, you add 100 gp to the price. There is no rule for each -1, though.
Cerebus13 04-10-05, 02:40 PM	I'll have to adjust my character's stats then...even though a fight has been run already. How we go about adjusting base stats to a character after they have been in fights...do we just reset their XP/Gold and start over?
Zyme86 04-10-05, 08:06 PM	Gareth vs William (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5914965&postcount=1457) Fun fight, nasty ending
xanadu 04-11-05, 12:36 PM	I was wondering if characetrs can buy each other's unwanted equipment. Assuming Necavi completes his quest, he will have a redundant item. The Ripper wants the item. There is no gain or advantage for either party since there is an equvilalent wealth transfer (i.e. one loses x gp item and sells it for x gp: no profit).
Kingside_Bishop 04-12-05, 02:22 PM	Another question... Once a character's statistics are posted, can we retroactively change them? I'd like to switch out a feat -- I haven't used it yet, so it wouldn't have affected my last match, and I'd just like to ask. Thanks!
Sindorin 04-12-05, 04:05 PM	Another question... Once a character's statistics are posted, can we retroactively change them? I'd like to switch out a feat -- I haven't used it yet, so it wouldn't have affected my last match, and I'd just like to ask. Thanks! Yes, you can change your feat to a new one. you can pretty much change anything as long as it hasn't been a factor or used in a fight.
MysticMonk2005 04-12-05, 11:05 PM	What happens if a Dwarven Defender takes a defensive stance on a horse? Does the horse moving count as the DD changing his position?
One_Winged_Angel 04-12-05, 11:42 PM	What happens if a Dwarven Defender takes a defensive stance on a horse? Does the horse moving count as the DD changing his position? Well, since he can still take free actions (I think...), he can guide with knees. I think...
MysticMonk2005 04-12-05, 11:47 PM	"I think" doesn't help me. I've already talked to you about it, now I'm asking the great powers.
Salzorin 04-13-05, 01:15 AM	well, with the wording: "a defender gains phenomenal strength and durability, but he cannot move from the spot he is defending." I believe the question comes down to whether you can define your mount as the "spot" you're defending. But, since "spot" is commonly defined as "A location; a locale." ... and since a horse can not be considered a location... I would have to lean to no. just my 2 cents on the matter However, when the defender gets mobile defense at 8, it removes the restriction of not being able to move from a location. It allows you to take a 5 ft. step only, but I would see precedence here with being able to use a mount since it says "a dwarven defender can adjust his position while maintaining a defensive stance" ...
spasheridan 04-13-05, 01:45 AM	SO.. can Psi-CRystals perform any actions? Could a psi-crystal say.. light a torch with a flint and steel? Could a psi-crystal open a flask of oil? Could a psi-crystal ignite a tindertwig and throw it at a square?
xanadu 04-13-05, 02:23 AM	I posted this in Necavi's quest thread, but I think it bears repeating: I would also have to say I enjoyed the quest. I never really figured I'd ever roleplay Necavi Omnes or Cannon Fodder [geez think of the silly names, if you don't know latin look it up :embarrass] but Sindorin did a good job creating excellent roleplay opportunities throughout the quest in spite of unexpected twists and turns. The quest idea succeeded in this respect in bringing gladiators to life, I believe the original intent behind the idea. Also, I have to compliment Sindorin's running of the quest, it was an abrupt start but was laways smooth. Also the ending was clearly improvised and he cleverly made a believable and impromptu ending that I think it is fair to say neither one of us expected. Thumbs up to the quest idea and Sindorin :thumbsup: Those of you who want to bring your characters alive should not hesitate to take advanatge of this opportunity.
KerlanRayne 04-13-05, 05:02 AM	SO.. can Psi-CRystals perform any actions? Could a psi-crystal say.. light a torch with a flint and steel? Could a psi-crystal open a flask of oil? Could a psi-crystal ignite a tindertwig and throw it at a square?1) Yes. 2) No. 3) No. 4) No. Psicrystals can take actions, but they lack the ability to do the things you ask. If given legs they are similar to spiders, and spiders can do none of the above but can still take actions. KerlanRayne
KerlanRayne 04-13-05, 05:13 AM	You can't charge someone with cover, right? So can you use a ride check to get cover from your mount and negate a charge attack? KerlanRayne
Pittbull 04-13-05, 05:26 AM	Sounds nice and could work. Of course you can't deny somebody attacking your mount, but there is still mounted combat. ;) First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge.
Pittbull 04-13-05, 06:55 AM	Regarding Leadership: If you use your cohort, for crafting magic/psionic items, how does this work? You gain him/her at a certain level determed by your leadership-score, but how much XP does he/she have (minimum XP or some more for crafting)? And most important, how does he/she gain XP if he/she is never brought into the arena? Since the ally-XP-rule is only active if you bring your ally into the arena for a fight. The old rule was, that your cohort is always maxed out to your leadership-score. Thanks!
Pitlords 04-13-05, 07:27 AM	Regarding Leadership: If you use your cohort, for crafting magic/psionic items, how does this work? You gain him/her at a certain level determed by your leadership-score, but how much XP does he/she have (minimum XP or some more for crafting)? And most important, how does he/she gain XP if he/she is never brought into the arena? Since the ally-XP-rule is only active if you bring your ally into the arena for a fight. The old rule was, that your cohort is always maxed out to your leadership-score. Thanks! Cohorts may not craft items. Cohorts are always determined by your permanent leadership score.
Jindl 04-13-05, 08:45 AM	Sounds nice and could work. Of course you can't deny somebody attacking your mount, but there is still mounted combat. ;)First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. @KerlanRayne - The passage Pittbull quoted is talking about the squares the charging character is moving from and to. It is not talking about the target's space. When you charge a mounted pc, even if that pc takes cover from his mount, you can easily still have a line from your starting space to your ending space that is free of obstacles, hindered terrain, and creatures. To answer your earlier question, yes you can charge creatures that have cover. It happens quite often when pc's use reach weapons. Just follow the rules quoted above for the charging pc's movement, and if they can reach their opponent at the end of the movement, then they can charge. It's irrelevant whether the target has cover or not. -Jindl
Pittbull 04-14-05, 08:47 AM	Cohorts may not craft items. Cohorts are always determined by your permanent leadership score. Thanks, did not find that! But now it's clear. :) @Jindl: Thanks for helping.
xanadu 04-15-05, 02:07 AM	Thinking for the future here. To start an ECL 5 character, lets say human, will cost 8 credits. This character would start with 10500 xp and 9500 gold (I am extrapolating from other characters), yes?
Pittbull 04-15-05, 11:22 AM	Thinking for the future here. To start an ECL 5 character, lets say human, will cost 8 credits. This character would start with 10500 xp and 9500 gold (I am extrapolating from other characters), yes? Yes!
Jindl 04-15-05, 11:42 AM	Where can you find this information for all the ECL's?
Sunwolf 04-15-05, 02:09 PM	Question on powerstones: If you have a stone with a metapsionic ability attached to the power (ex empower power energy ray), do you expend your psionic focus when you use the stone? Most (all?) metapsionic feats require expending focus to use them.
Jindl 04-15-05, 02:11 PM	Question on powerstones: If you have a stone with a metapsionic ability attached to the power (ex empower power energy ray), do you expend your psionic focus when you use the stone? Most (all?) metapsionic feats require expending focus to use them. No. The crafter of the stone is assumed to have expended his focus when crafting the stone. You do have to account for the any additional powerpoints necessary for the metapsionic feat.
Caterane 04-15-05, 02:46 PM	Where can you find this information for all the ECL's? Well, he probably took it from Ixenthor's sheet but it isn't written anywhere. To be honest, I have no idea what the formula is and I had no time so far to think about that. Ashenai came up with a system that governs starting levels but he left before he explained it to me. I wrote him several mails in the last weeks but didn't receive an answer. What we know is (parenthesis: bonus) [B]ECL 3: 3200 xp, 3000 gp [3000 xp, 2700 gp] (+200 xp, +300 gp) ECL 4: 6300 xp, 5700 gp [6000 xp, 5400 gp] (+300 xp, +300 gp) ECL 5: 10500 xp, 9500 gp [10000 xp, 9000 gp] (+500 xp, +500 gp)
Caterane 04-15-05, 03:00 PM	Question: What happens if someone manifests a powerstone on someone with psionic hole? Does the power fail because the stone cannot pay more PP? Does he have to pay it from his own reserve? Does the feat affect the stone not at all?
Jindl 04-15-05, 06:51 PM	Question: What happens if someone manifests a powerstone on someone with psionic hole? Does the power fail because the stone cannot pay more PP? Does he have to pay it from his own reserve? Does the feat affect the stone not at all? The feat cannot force the stone to pay additional pp. So, near as I can tell, it doesn't affect a stone at all. -Jindl
Kaigan 04-15-05, 06:57 PM	Well that doesn't make sense then. I'm not liking these powerstones. So you are saying that a character with psionic hole can still be targetted by powerstones with no penalty, where as if someone uses a power, they have to pay the extra power points. Wow, some loop hole. I also don't like how you don't have to pay extra for an enlarged powerstone.
spasheridan 04-15-05, 07:08 PM	The feat cannot force the stone to pay additional pp. So, near as I can tell, it doesn't affect a stone at all. A wilder’s temperamental mind is hard to encompass with the discipline of telepathy. When any telepathy power is manifested on a wilder of 5th level or higher, the manifester of the power must pay 1 power point more than he otherwise would have spent. The extra cost is not a natural part of that power’s cost. It does not augment the power; it is simply a wasted power point. The wilder’s volatile mind can force the manifester of the telepathy power to exceed the normal power point limit of 1 point per manifester level. If the extra cost raises the telepathy power’s cost to more points than the manifester has remaining in his reserve, the power simply fails, and the manifester exhausts the rest of his power points. Benefit: When a foe strikes you in melee combat, the foe immediately loses its psionic focus, if any. Also, if you are the target of a power, the manifester of the power must spend an additional number of power points equal to your Wisdom bonus, or the power fails (all the power points spent on the power are still lost). This extra cost does not count toward the maximum power points a manifester can spend on a single power. Looks to me like if you zap someone with psionic hole with a spell that targets them from a stone then the power fails because the manifester (the stone) cannot pay additional PP to keep the power up.
One_Winged_Angel 04-15-05, 11:15 PM	OK, now I'm in trouble. What do I do with two gladiators who are, ah, somewhat active? Situation in case: Character A wants to always ready a spell against any action by character B so that Character B cannot avoid the spell with a readied move. Character B has a readied action to fire should character A cast a spell. Basically, I have a guy staring down the shaft of an arrow and the other waiting to cast for an action to take place. What I'm trying to say here is: HEEEEEEELLLLLLLLPPPPPP!!!
Cerebus13 04-15-05, 11:32 PM	Wait out the 10 round limit rule and whoever gets to 10 rounds of inactivity first (or whoever GOES first in the round if they both end the same round) they stop readying and start to go after their opponent.
spasheridan 04-16-05, 01:07 AM	Character A wants to always ready a spell against any action by character BThis is impossible. Character A must specify a trigger for his readied action. This trigger cannont be a metagame term. A valid trigger would be "If B moves" or "If B casts a spell", but it can not be "If B takes any action" not can it be "If B takes a move action". IF PC A is a wizard and PC B is an archer (or has a bow out) then the reasonable triggers for their readied actions would be: PC A: Cast if B shoots his bow. PC B: Shoot bow if A casts. Remember, though, that a readied action is noticable. PC B has his bow drawn tight and centered on A, A has his spell components out and fingers twitching at B. Both can see the readied action of the other, so they may react accordingly. Finally, if they keep the mexican stand off going for 10 rounds one of them is going to blink, and it's generally the one who started holding has to blink first.
Sindorin 04-16-05, 01:52 AM	OK, now I'm in trouble. What do I do with two gladiators who are, ah, somewhat active? Situation in case: Character A wants to always ready a spell against any action by character B so that Character B cannot avoid the spell with a readied move. Character B has a readied action to fire should character A cast a spell. Basically, I have a guy staring down the shaft of an arrow and the other waiting to cast for an action to take place. What I'm trying to say here is: HEEEEEEELLLLLLLLPPPPPP!!! Hehe, sorry!
spasheridan 04-16-05, 01:54 AM	Magic QUestion: Say someone attempts to read a scroll of enlarge person and fails (armor check). The spell is a full round action, does he waste a full round or just a standard action (starting, fizzles, can do a move action)? Thanks!
Kingside_Bishop 04-16-05, 02:19 AM	Magic QUestion: Say someone attempts to read a scroll of enlarge person and fails (armor check). The spell is a full round action, does he waste a full round or just a standard action (starting, fizzles, can do a move action)? Thanks!Son of a...
Arstimis 04-16-05, 08:02 AM	This is impossible. Character A must specify a trigger for his readied action. This trigger cannont be a metagame term. A valid trigger would be "If B moves" or "If B casts a spell", but it can not be "If B takes any action" not can it be "If B takes a move action". Im just wondering where it says you have to specify a trigger, because to me, saying if he takes any actions could be a trigger.
Jindl 04-16-05, 09:59 AM	Magic QUestion: Say someone attempts to read a scroll of enlarge person and fails (armor check). The spell is a full round action, does he waste a full round or just a standard action (starting, fizzles, can do a move action)? Thanks! A failed spellcasting attempt still uses the normal casting time. Im just wondering where it says you have to specify a trigger, because to me, saying if he takes any actions could be a trigger. It doesn't specify in the core rules one way or the other. However, as spasheridan has pointed out, in the past we have made the ready action too powerful by allowing triggers that are too vague. I agree with him that the trigger needs to be more specific than "if he does anything." And I think Cat has posted his support of the idea as well. So consider it a CoCo standard that ready actions at a minimum need to specify a specific action as a trigger (ie. move, attack, cast, charge, etc). (@Cat - Please comment on this as well :D) -Jindl
spasheridan 04-16-05, 12:39 PM	Im just wondering where it says you have to specify a trigger, because to me, saying if he takes any actions could be a trigger. Imagine PC A has readied an action to shoot his bow if PC B casts a spell. PC B Readies an action to cast a spell if PC A takes an action. PC A readies (again) to shoot if B casts a spell... but his action of readying triggers B's spell. In reality, A did nothing here... his "taking an action" was really just a continutation of his earlier action. The desrciption of the ready requires a trigger, and I feel that this trigger must be noticible to the PC. Meta-game terms are never noticible, just specific actions. Here's the SRD on readied actions. Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action. You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round This definition here is a bit vague, and it can be broadly interperted. I feel that the trigger must be a single specific action or event, but that is not specified in the rules. The reason I feel it's necesary to restrict triggers to specific actions is to reduce the use and power of the readied action. If we can allow readied actions to give anyone a reasonable chance at 2 actions in a row all games will devolve into a pair of gladiators readying actions vs each other doing anything. Since PCs can see their opponent readying all tactics will be "if I see my opponent ready I ready", otherwise you just give your opponent 2 actions in a row. This is to much power for a single tactic. Also, much of the adjutication of a readied action falls onto the pitlord. Forcing the gladiator to restrict their tactics to a single trigger for readied actions removes any possibility of pitlords picking good or bad triggers and spawning some bickering in the fights thread.
spasheridan 04-16-05, 02:37 PM	Graplles, Pins... OK, say that 2 PC's are in a grapple. PC A pins PC B.Pin Your Opponent: You can hold your opponent immobile for 1 round by winning an opposed grapple check (made in place of an attack). Once you have an opponent pinned, you have a few options available to you (see below).I'm curious about the "options" you have available to you. IMO you take the pin attempt in place of an attack. Now, if you wish to do anything (like.. oh.. damage your opponent) do you need a 2nd attack to attempt this or do you get a 2nd grapple check to hurt him for free?
Cerebus13 04-16-05, 03:42 PM	If You’re Pinning an Opponent You can attempt to damage your opponent with an opposed grapple check, you can attempt to use your opponent’s weapon against him, or you can attempt to move the grapple (all described above). At your option, you can prevent a pinned opponent from speaking. You can use a disarm action to remove or grab away a well secured object worn by a pinned opponent, but he gets a +4 bonus on his roll to resist your attempt. You may voluntarily release a pinned character as a free action; if you do so, you are no longer considered to be grappling that character (and vice versa). You can’t draw or use a weapon (against the pinned character or any other character), escape another’s grapple, retrieve a spell component, pin another character, or break another’s pin while you are pinning an opponent. I think since you only can Pin for one round you get to do any of the above options on that same round. So you can do unarmed damage to them with a grapple check, use their own weapon against them, move the grapple, etc..etc. I imagine you can only do ONE of the options of course, but there is a bunch of stuff to do while pinning.
Arstimis 04-16-05, 04:56 PM	Jindl and Spash, thanks for explaining that, I never knew that became a rule in the CoCo.
Zyme86 04-16-05, 06:15 PM	Kagan, I cant find your character, could ou send me a link to it.
Caterane 04-16-05, 06:44 PM	The feat cannot force the stone to pay additional pp. So, near as I can tell, it doesn't affect a stone at all. Correct, and neither can the powerstone provide additional PP but since Psionic hole is a passive defense - a field that requires powers to be stronger than normal or fail - something the powerstone cannot do, the power should auto-fail. The only rule we have is that you have to use more PP for a power to make it affect a psionic hole character, and a powerstone cannot do that. It doesn't specify in the core rules one way or the other. However, as spasheridan has pointed out, in the past we have made the ready action too powerful by allowing triggers that are too vague. I agree with him that the trigger needs to be more specific than "if he does anything." And I think Cat has posted his support of the idea as well. So consider it a CoCo standard that ready actions at a minimum need to specify a specific action as a trigger (ie. move, attack, cast, charge, etc). (@Cat - Please comment on this as well ) The trigger needs to be specified, no doubt here. There is however a problem with our current interpretation. Imagine the sheriff standing infront of a cowboy aiming his gun at him (just flavor; for you americans :D) ...he readies an action. If he could not use the trigger "if he does anything" but ready vs let's say a move, then his ready action would not trigger if the cowboy uses his gun to shoot the sheriff, and vice versa if he readies vs an attack, his ready action would not go off if the cowboy flees. Seems illogical. On top of that, the rules don't really restrict the trigger. However, we have to specify triggers and we should come up with some guidelines. Ready actions, if not properly defined, are too powerful and cry for abuse. I have some suggestions on how to handle them. First of all, ready actions may not be triggered by metagame terms such as 'standard action' but need to be described ingame which limits them somewhat. "Casting a spell" or even "If he does anything" (remember the sheriff?) should be okay though but then the ready action goes off as soon as the opponoment does anything but delay to next round. We also all agree that ready actions are clearly visible (for those who doubt that I can post a discussion I held with Spasheridan and convinced him ...and we all know that is neigh impossible with that one ;) ). Here we need intelligent pitlord moderation combined with a basic behaviour in case of enemy ready actions, outlined in one's tactics. Example: If the wizard sees the archer with an arrow knocked and aimed at him, he should realize that his next spell might be the trigger so he rides out of LOS and casts there, archer lost a standard action. If the mounted charger readies a move, the other one can expect that he wants to move into charging position, and react accordingly. The nature of your opponoment makes dangerous triggers obvious, and should require a minimum amount of extra work on your tactics. Even if the opponoment came up with an unexpected creative trick, the player won't fall into the same hole twice. I think these guidelines limit the power of ready actions to a great extend without creating artificial limitations. Please tell me what you think about it. If there appear to be problems with that I am also ok with our current interpretation of a highly specified trigger action.
Jindl 04-16-05, 07:00 PM	Correct, and neither can the powerstone provide additional PP but since Psionic hole is a passive defense - a field that requires powers to be stronger than normal or fail - something the powerstone cannot do, the power should auto-fail. The only rule we have is that you have to use more PP for a power to make it affect a psionic hole character, and a powerstone cannot do that. Then is it reasonable to assume that an augmented powerstone could work? For example, say the Elder hits JotHF with a fire ray from a powerstone: enlarged energy ray (ML10). JotHF has the psionic hole feat with a Wis 21 (+5), which means the stone has to spend 5 extra pp's to affect him with the energy ray. Normally the stone would augment the energy ray to deal 10d6+5 damage, but since 5 pp's were spend overcoming psionic hole, that only leaves 5 pps to augment the energy ray. The result, JotHF is hit with a fire ray that does 5d6+5 damage. If a stone cannot spend the extra pp's the power fails. Using the example above, if the fire ray had come from a powerstone: enlarged energy ray (ML5), then after spending 5 pps to overcome psionic hole, the stone had no pps left to fuel the energy ray. So the energy ray failed. Sound reasonable? Now to expand the question: how does this affect dorjes, psicrowns, and tattoos? I think that these items all work as normal, because they are not "power/spell completion" items, they are "power/spell trigger" items. As an example, a wizard can share a spell (of personal or touch range) cast from a scroll with his familiar. He cannot share a wand's effect with his familiar, because using a wand (or potion or staff) is not like casting a spell. By this logic, I would assume that the effect of a dorje (or tattoo or psicrown) is not the same as manifesting a power, and is unaffected by psionic hole. Comments?
Cerebus13 04-16-05, 07:25 PM	If a stone cannot spend the extra pp's the power fails. Using the example above, if the fire ray had come from a powerstone: enlarged energy ray (ML5), then after spending 5 pps to overcome psionic hole, the stone had no pps left to fuel the energy ray. So the energy ray failed. That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Most folks buy augmented stones anyway, so they'll need to buy the biggest they can get to beat a psionic hole toon. Now to expand the question: how does this affect dorjes, psicrowns, and tattoos? I think that these items all work as normal, because they are not "power/spell completion" items, they are "power/spell trigger" items. As an example, a wizard can share a spell (of personal or touch range) cast from a scroll with his familiar. He cannot share a wand's effect with his familiar, because using a wand (or potion or staff) is not like casting a spell. By this logic, I would assume that the effect of a dorje (or tattoo or psicrown) is not the same as manifesting a power, and is unaffected by psionic hole. Dorjes and Psicrowns have charges and PPs available to them, so couldn't they also suffer some penalty that must be paid against a Psionic Hole character? Tattoos are typically the minimum ML required to make them unless a person spends credits on the Black Market, but there are some that exist that are over the minimum ML. Having Psionic Hole affect Power Stones is a good start however, and future playtesting could show whether or not the feat should extend to the rest of the Psionic Items.
Caterane 04-16-05, 07:36 PM	Then is it reasonable to assume that an augmented powerstone could work? For example, say the Elder hits JotHF with a fire ray from a powerstone: enlarged energy ray (ML10). JotHF has the psionic hole feat with a Wis 21 (+5), which means the stone has to spend 5 extra pp's to affect him with the energy ray. Normally the stone would augment the energy ray to deal 10d6+5 damage, but since 5 pp's were spend overcoming psionic hole, that only leaves 5 pps to augment the energy ray. The result, JotHF is hit with a fire ray that does 5d6+5 damage. If a stone cannot spend the extra pp's the power fails. Using the example above, if the fire ray had come from a powerstone: enlarged energy ray (ML5), then after spending 5 pps to overcome psionic hole, the stone had no pps left to fuel the energy ray. So the energy ray failed. Sound reasonable? Hey, yeah. That's a good argument, and I think it works just that way. Now to expand the question: how does this affect dorjes, psicrowns, and tattoos? I think that these items all work as normal, because they are not "power/spell completion" items, they are "power/spell trigger" items. As an example, a wizard can share a spell (of personal or touch range) cast from a scroll with his familiar. He cannot share a wand's effect with his familiar, because using a wand (or potion or staff) is not like casting a spell. By this logic, I would assume that the effect of a dorje (or tattoo or psicrown) is not the same as manifesting a power, and is unaffected by psionic hole. Comments? I don't see a connection between the kind of item trigger, the possibility to share it with your familiar, and the psionic hole feat; from whatever source the power comes, it is still a psionic effect and that is subject to the Psionic Hole feat. But we can apply your suggestion above to the other items: a psicrown has PP so it can just spend more PP on that power and according to the feat description, these PP are in addition to the max PP possible. Dorjes and Crawling tattoos follow the same rules as powerstones: substract the wisdom modifier from the augmented power, and keep the rest. If there's no rest, the power fails.
Kaigan 04-16-05, 07:49 PM	Kagan, I cant find your character, could ou send me a link to it. It's listed in the character thread. It's Eiletha Surion. The link is there.
Jindl 04-16-05, 09:14 PM	I don't see a connection between the kind of item trigger, the possibility to share it with your familiar, and the psionic hole feat; from whatever source the power comes, it is still a psionic effect and that is subject to the Psionic Hole feat. But we can apply your suggestion above to the other items: a psicrown has PP so it can just spend more PP on that power and according to the feat description, these PP are in addition to the max PP possible. Dorjes and Crawling tattoos follow the same rules as powerstones: substract the wisdom modifier from the augmented power, and keep the rest. If there's no rest, the power fails. The point is that I think you are making psionic hole too powerful. It's only supposed to work against powers that target you. Powerstones are virtually the same thing as powers (just like scrolls are virtually the same as spells which is why you can share them with a familiar), which is why I do think that psionic hole would affect powerstones. However; dorjes, psicrowns, and tattoos are not like powers that the caster manifests (which is why you cannot share their effects with a familiar). I guess I'm drawing a distinction between spell completion and spell trigger items regarding whether they are effected by psionic hole. -Jindl
Salzorin 04-16-05, 09:42 PM	Ok, here's my take: Also, if you are the target of a power, the manifester of the power must spend an additional number of power points equal to your Wisdom bonus, or the power fails (all the power points spent on the power are still lost). Earlier people wrote off the ability for the player to pay the additional power points because he's not the manifester... but, from the Power Stones section, I find: To activate a power stone, a manifester must mentally address it, as described below. and Using a stone’s stored power after addressing the stone requires holding the stone and willing the power’s manifestation, as if manifesting a power normally (a standard action). Activating a power stone is subject to disruption just as manifesting a power normally would be. Based off of that, it would seem to me that the player IS the manifester, and as such CAN pay the extra PP from his pool to overcome the Psionic Hole cost.
Caterane 04-17-05, 06:30 AM	@Salzorin, I think you're highlighting a misleading section. To activate a power stone, a manifester must mentally address it, as described below. Of course you have to be a manifester to activate a powerstone (just like you have to be a caster to activate a scroll). And as Jindl pointed out, a powerstone cannot force you to spend additional PP.
Pitlords 04-17-05, 07:44 AM	Please remember that the boards will be down on tuesday and we don't know for how long! That means the option to post late fights will be severly limited. Please make sure that your fights are up on time. Thanks Edit: I have finished the table for starting xp and gold, now foundable in the FAQ: Races and Classes (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5222231). ***** Starting- ***** -ECL -XP -Gold ________________________ 3 3200 3000 4 6300 5700 5 10500 9500 6 15700 13600 7 22000 19900 8 29400 28400 9 37800 37800 10 47200 51400 11 57700 69300 12 69300 92400 13 81900 115500 14 95500 157500 15 110000 210000 16 126000 273000 17 143000 357000 18 160600 462000 19 179500 609000 20 199500 798000
Salzorin 04-17-05, 12:08 PM	@Cat: I think it's the second quote from the power stone section that makes the stronger argument... especially the part that manifestation from a Power Stone is subject to disruption just as manifesting a power normally would be. I just think that the text is basically stating the user of a stone as the manifester of the power. And as such, they would be able to pay the additional PP cost to overcome Psionic Hole. Are they the one that stored that power in the stone? no. Are they the one now manifesting the power from the stone? yes.
TaggIIV 04-17-05, 12:13 PM	I don't know how much leniency the GMs allow for the sake of flavor but hows this for a quest basis... Zaqh'fool the Unevolved Green Wyrmling (his crocodile animal companion) has gone missing just two weeks before the Moon's Eclipse as forecasted by his chart, an important ritual night! Nyphanalith just won't have this! Recruiting a more mundane animal to his service (crocodile treated as same animal companion in rules terms to replace the missing Zaqh'fool in flavor terms) and leads an expedition to search for Zaqh'fool. ...Little does he know, Zaqh'fool has actually evolved into a regular green wyrmling and grown hostile! A dire bat to be captured as a new animal companion in game terms Uhh.. so would something like this be allowed or is that too farfetched?
Pitlords 04-17-05, 02:20 PM	@Tagg: There are no roleplay limits. I see no problem with that. Just write "Short Quest: Dire Bat" into the headline or request a Long Quest. Megrim Lord is still waiting for a quester.
xanadu 04-18-05, 01:35 AM	Wonder if someone can help me out with formating. Is there any way to line up stuff so every character takes up the same pixel space? What I mean is that if you list the standard abilities like such: Str 12 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 12 Is there anyway so the 12s are neatly aligned vertically?
Sindorin 04-18-05, 01:37 AM	I imagine you would have to use a different font to accomplish that...
Pittbull 04-18-05, 06:34 AM	Does anybody know the official 3.5 stats for Kender (Dragonlance-setting)? I need the dicription for our real life campaign. Thanks!!
One_Winged_Angel 04-18-05, 09:54 AM	Wonder if someone can help me out with formating. Is there any way to line up stuff so every character takes up the same pixel space? What I mean is that if you list the standard abilities like such: Str 12 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 12 Is there anyway so the 12s are neatly aligned vertically? Str 12 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 12
Huan 04-18-05, 10:05 AM	Does anybody know the official 3.5 stats for Kender (Dragonlance-setting)? I need the dicription for our real life campaign. Thanks!! (Good book). Found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20030713a) (scroll down): Kender Racial Traits +2 Dexterity, -2 Strength, -2 Wisdom: Quick and agile, the small and wiry kender are built for nimbleness rather than brute strength. Driven by insatiable curiosity, kender lack the ability to think things through or to consider the consequences of their actions. Small: As Small creatures, kender gain a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but they must use smaller weapons than humans use, and their lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of Medium characters. Kender base land speed is 20 feet. +1 racial bonus to all saving throws: Perhaps due to their eternal optimism and their inherent belief in the goodness of all people, kender manage to survive and thrive in a world that is often hostile to them. +2 racial bonus on Spot checks: Kender have remarkable eyesight. +2 racial bonus on Open Locks and Sleight of Hand checks: All kender have an instinctive curiosity when it comes to finding out what lies behind closed doors and inside pockets and pouches. Kender can use these two abilities as though they were trained, even if they have 0 ranks in the skills. Lack of focus:Kender have a -4 racial penalty on Concentration checks. Kender don't necessarily lack magical talent, but their general lack of focus discourages them from pursuing careers in magic. Taunt: Kender have an uncanny insight into the motivations and characteristics of other races. They can use this insight to unleash a verbal barrage of sarcasm, insults, and crude comments that cause the targeted victims to lose their temper. Kender receive a +4 racial bonus on all Bluff checks used to taunt someone. Fearlessness: Kender are immune to fear, magical and otherwise. Automatic languages: Kenderspeak and Common. Bonus languages: Dwarven, Ergot, Elven, Goblin, and Solamnic. Favored class: Rogue.
Pittbull 04-18-05, 10:18 AM	Thanks a lot!
Kaigan 04-18-05, 02:22 PM	Wonder if someone can help me out with formating. Is there any way to line up stuff so every character takes up the same pixel space? What I mean is that if you list the standard abilities like such: Str 12 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 12 Is there anyway so the 12s are neatly aligned vertically? Use the courier new font
Cerebus13 04-18-05, 04:23 PM	The SRD has this to say about one way of doing damage in a grapple: Damage Your Opponent While grappling, you can deal damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. If you win, you deal nonlethal damage as normal for your unarmed strike (1d3 points for Medium attackers or 1d2 points for Small attackers, plus Strength modifiers). If you want to deal lethal damage, you take a -4 penalty on your grapple check. If your character had claws somehow (a spell or perhaps being a half-dragon) instead of hands, would they replace the unarmed strike damage listed under this section with their claw damage? In addition, would this stack with armor spikes?
Zyme86 04-19-05, 09:30 AM	tis up *Click Here* (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5976525&postcount=1480)
Sindorin 04-19-05, 07:18 PM	tis up *Click Here* (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5976525&postcount=1480) That can be of better use in the fight concerns thread (even though the title is in German this week which might make it easy for some to miss) :). In other news... Sokai Calanis has solved the riddle of his inner demons, and now seeks to fulfill the riddle's prophecy - he wishes to find love. In other words, he is levelling up to 6th level (only 300 pts to go) and may take Leadership as a feat. I was thinking that he could acquire his cohort through a quest (which to my understanding is required to attain a cohort... right?). I do know though that there are not any open questlords at the moment, which is okay. I just wanted to throw this out there.
Caterane 04-19-05, 07:32 PM	Hey, have you heard that? Hatzinger is the new pope! The CoCo is glad that one of our own has risen to such heights! lol
xanadu 04-19-05, 08:13 PM	Oops, wrong thread :embarrass
Sindorin 04-19-05, 09:07 PM	Hey, have you heard that? Hatzinger is the new pope! The CoCo is glad that one of our own has risen to such heights! lol Ah, so that's where he went...
Jindl 04-19-05, 09:35 PM	Hey everyone - I'm updating one of my favorite gladiator characters to use in a new RL campaign. Please take a look at the advanced Anna, formerly Ghost of the Arena. I've taken her through the Master of the Unseen Hand PrC from the Complete Warrior (link included on character sheet). I'd appreciate any advice anyone can offer on improving her, especially in the equipment section as she still has a substantial amount of wealth left. Thanks! -Jindl
Sunwolf 04-20-05, 10:01 AM	@Jindl Interesting items for Anna: +1(or higher) ghost touch mithral chain shirt -- additional AC and works on both material and etheral planes -- for those times when something can fight you on the etheral plane. Another option is bracers of armor if you don't have enough cash for the ghost touch mithral chain shirt. consider adding ghost touch to your luckblade to allow you to carry it at all times Thats all the core stuff I can think of, don't have complete Warrior so can't say if there is anything else from there that might help Wand of inflict * wounds (for self healing) when the lay on hands runs out (may need to UMD to activate). If you have a house rule that cure wounds spells will heal you a wand of cure * wounds would work since it is on the Paladin list.
Jindl 04-20-05, 10:36 AM	@Sunwolf - Thanks for the tips. I'll definately start looking for some sort of ghost touch armor. I just have to make sure it has a max Dex of +7 or greater so that Anna doesn't lose any of he dex bonus. Maybe bracers of armor would be better, but I'd have to be sure that they would protect against material plane creatures (are you sure the armor bonus isn't lost?), and that they wouldn't interefere with her passing through solid objects while incorporeal (would the force effect of the armor prevent her from moving into a wall?). I don't think I'm going to ghost touch the luck blade, as I want the sword to be carried by her ally (it's tied in to her ghostly reason for existence). The wand of inflict is a great idea also. I'm asking the DM to look at the Sacred Watcher template from the BoED. If the DM allows the template to grant Telekinesis as a ghost template would, then I'll switch. I think that is in the spirit of the template (ha! pun...). That would give Anna the deathless type, which means she would heal from positive energy. Anna can easily use wands (its a DC20 on the UMD check and she has a +19 bonus). So if there are other wands anyone thinks could be helpful, or any other equipment in general, please let me know. -Jindl
Kingside_Bishop 04-20-05, 10:51 AM	I have a question about accruing credits. I'd like to do it, but most of my statistical thought goes into developing the Guild House, so I'd really like to try to avoid pitlording and questlording. I do like writing stories, however, so I was wondering if I could write in depth flavor text for fights others run, and earn credits that way. I'll be able to pitlord sometime over the summer (especially once finals are over) -- but I was just curious if we can accrue credits by writing stories for fights other people run. Thanks!
Zyme86 04-20-05, 11:02 AM	I'd like to repeat my protest here Due to no fault of my ovn, when the my fight was transfered to another pitbull, my tatics were not, such tatics would have been enough to change the outcome of the fight, I am requesting that the fight be rerun.
Pittbull 04-20-05, 11:02 AM	I have a question about accruing credits. I'd like to do it, but most of my statistical thought goes into developing the Guild House, so I'd really like to try to avoid pitlording and questlording. I do like writing stories, however, so I was wondering if I could write in depth flavor text for fights others run, and earn credits that way. I'll be able to pitlord sometime over the summer (especially once finals are over) -- but I was just curious if we can accrue credits by writing stories for fights other people run. Thanks! Helping Cat with the background-stories and maps for Gladius has been a credit-source too. Checking characters, I think about ten, gives one credit too. Just write Cat a PM. But I'm sure, if you write stories for fights run by a another, might be a complete new source too. Everybody likes stories! :)
Sunwolf 04-20-05, 11:09 AM	An interesting idea is to add the ghost touch property to bracers of armor -- not sure if this is core or but I have seen (arms and equipment guide? or maybe Faerun) that enchantments that can be placed on armor can also be placed on bracers (of armor). Adding ghost touch should allow for the force effects to follow incorporal properties. However, I would run the idea past your GM for a ruling for his campaign. Oops -- mithral chain shirt has max dex of +6 -- +1 leather would have the max dex of +7. It that vein, you can also grab a mithral buckler or small shield with ghost touch for more AC.
Jindl 04-20-05, 11:16 AM	I'd like to repeat my protest here Due to no fault of my ovn, when the my fight was transfered to another pitbull, my tatics were not, such tatics would have been enough to change the outcome of the fight, I am requesting that the fight be rerun. I think you have a good case here, Zyme. As an Elder, I would vote for your fight to be rerun (at no penalty to the previous pitlord). @Pittbull/Caterane - Any thoughts from the other (active) Elder and the GM?
Pittbull 04-20-05, 11:19 AM	I think you have a good case here, Zyme. As an Elder, I would vote for your fight to be rerun (at no penalty to the previous pitlord). @Pittbull/Caterane - Any thoughts from the other (active) Elder and the GM? Please tell what fight it is.
Jindl 04-20-05, 11:19 AM	Helping Cat with the background-stories and maps for Gladius has been a credit-source too. Checking characters, I think about ten, gives one credit too. Just write Cat a PM. But I'm sure, if you write stories for fights run by a another, might be a complete new source too. Everybody likes stories! :) I think it was 10 effective character levels of audits equals 1 credit, so if you audit 2 ECL 5 pc's you're eligible. Of course, we may need to raise that requirement, as auditing 2 ECL5 pc's is nowhere close to as much work as pitlording a fight. I think writing stories for others fights is a great idea, just make sure to get permission from the fight's pitlord and both players before doing so. -Jindl
Jindl 04-20-05, 11:21 AM	Please tell what fight it is. Hisoka the Clown (Salzorin) vs Daka (Zyme86): One_Winged_Angel Aramil Dunskar
Pittbull 04-20-05, 11:47 AM	OK, this fight: Hisoka the Clown (Salzorin) vs Daka (Zyme86): One_Winged_Angel Aramil Dunskar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5978263&postcount=1481) I'd like to repeat my protest here Due to no fault of my ovn, when the my fight was transfered to another pitbull, my tatics were not, such tatics would have been enough to change the outcome of the fight, I am requesting that the fight be rerun. First of all it means another Pitlord not Pitbull! ;) Yes, there should be a rerun, because it was not your fault. The last word has, of course the GM (Catarane). If you want to, I rerun the fight tomorrow, if the tactic are sent to me this night. With delayed Pairings this should be no problem. But only if Aramil or OWA don't want to do the rerun themself.
Zyme86 04-20-05, 12:19 PM	This week I will have a lot of extra time over the weekend, I would I am free to pitlord any #of fights this week (but not too many, I still have a life :weep: )
Sindorin 04-20-05, 12:20 PM	This week I will have a lot of extra time over the weekend, I would I am free to pitlord any #of fights this week (but not too many, I still have a life :weep: ) Be sure to send a Private Message to Pitlords informing of this. This makes sure your post here in the tavern isn't overlooked (which has happened).
Zyme86 04-20-05, 12:21 PM	thx, I'l do that
Pittbull 04-21-05, 03:48 AM	@Zyme86: D'OH! This was in my PM box, under sent messages: 04-13-05 Tatics for Aramil 09:54 PM OneWingedAngel 04-13-05 Tatics for Grakk 09:46 PM Jindl *Sigh* Oh well... I lost because of my stupidyness... so I'm just going to go ahead and pull Aramil out..... -Aramil There was no go for from a Pitlord or the GM. I guess Aramil will fix it himself. Good luck!
Jindl 04-21-05, 09:03 AM	@Pittbull - Huh? The text you quoted from AD was regarding his gladiator "Aramil", who lost this week because OWA didn't recieve tactics. I don't think that quote had anything to do with Zyme's gladiator. -Jindl
Zyme86 04-21-05, 10:20 AM	Ya, He sent me a PM 1, questioned my intregrity, and 2, saying he was going to confirm the mistake and possibly rerun
Pittbull 04-21-05, 12:21 PM	Ya, He sent me a PM 1, questioned my intregrity, and 2, saying he was going to confirm the mistake and possibly rerun Sorry for that confusion! But AD does the rerun now? That's quite good I got such a busy day in my practice and haven't been on boards for the whole afternoon.
Jindl 04-21-05, 04:43 PM	Questions for Pitlords (or anyone else who wants to respond :D): 1. When questing for an animal companion, do we assume that the companion comes with 1/2 its base tricks already trained if it is a short quest, and all of its base tricks already trained if it is a long quest? Of course, you don't have to train bonus tricks, so I'm only referring to the 3 or 6 base tricks each animal can learn based on its Int of 1 or 2. And in both cases, the druid/ranger still has to be able to meet the Handle Animal DC to teach the base tricks as well, right? 2. When spending credits to get an item on the blackmarket (say a Amulet of Health +1 for 5 credits), you never have to spend any more credits for that item, right? Even if you enhance it later (say by increasing the Amulet above from +1 to +3)? The credits give you license for that item, even if the item later is enhanced to be more powerful, right? 3. When adding an acquired template to an existing character, how much gp and xp does the character have at the new ECL? If an ECL3 character has an acquired template added raising them to ECL8, how much xp/gp do they gain by virtue of raising ECL? Is it simply the difference in the starting gp/xp between ECL3 and ECL8? -Jindl
Cerebus13 04-21-05, 04:57 PM	@Jindl 1) Its a good idea to have Druids/Rangers meet the base Handle Animal skill in order to have any automatic skills applies to their companion. I'm not too keen on letting players quest for companions that start out with their full complement of skills however, as that would cheapen the Handle Animal skill quite a bit. Perhaps only be able to gain half of their total skills through questing? 2) I'd say yes to this as well, but only allow it if the PLAYER is upgrading the item. If we are allowed to pay NPCs to upgrade items (not sure or not, I forget) it would make sense to charge credits again. 3) It would be easy to just take the difference of XP/Gold between the two ECLs and apply it to the character I suppose, but I imagine we wouldn't want to encourage this too much because it could easily boost a player out of the ECL range of anyone else if they decided to apply say....the Vampire template and gain +8 ECL.
TaggIIV 04-21-05, 05:29 PM	How literally is the magic-psionic transparency interpreted? For example, do manifester levels count as caster levels for Item Creation feats like Craft Wondrous Item, and vice versa for feats like Craft Universal Item? Though I suppose even if a psion got Craft Wondrous Item he would have a difficult time meeting the spell prerequisites for crafting items.. unless its possible to have maybe an NPC or cohort cast the spells?
jstorrie 04-21-05, 05:46 PM	@TaggIV: psionic wondrous items are called universal items, and there's a separate feat for them. Neither item creation feat overlaps the other.
Solmund 04-21-05, 07:48 PM	was thorn vs solmund ever posted? because the fight listings said i won that, but i don't remember reading the fight.
TaggIIV 04-21-05, 07:55 PM	@TaggIV: psionic wondrous items are called universal items, and there's a separate feat for them. Neither item creation feat overlaps the other. Yeah, but its unfortunate that Universal Items generally suck in comparison to Wondrous Items. :'(
Sindorin 04-21-05, 07:59 PM	It makes sense flavor-wise though, IMHO. Psionics isn't generally known for being able to "enchant" things, like Arcane magic is.
One_Winged_Angel 04-21-05, 11:58 PM	Question: OK, so we make it so that potions and tattoos that are higher than base manifester level cost one credit. So that means that if a character takes scribe tattoo, he is charged a credit every time he makes a 1st level tattoo? Example: Bob, a 6th level psion, wants to craft a tattoo for his newly aquired ally through leadership. He wants to make a tattoo of vigor. However, he is automatically creating a ML 6 tattoo. So this means what exactly? He is charged a credit every single time he makes a tattoo for his ally?
Cerebus13 04-22-05, 12:15 AM	I think the credit cost only applies to when you are purchasing Tats/Potions from an NPC, to limit people from getting high ML Vigor tats and whatnot. If you're creating it yourself the limit should be just what you can create I believe...
Snommelp 04-22-05, 01:40 AM	Don Quixote appears to have lost Mambrino's Helmet. He'll eventually stumble into the black market to find it, but first I have to know how much it will cost. I'm thinking it would translate best as something like a Helmet of Natural Armor +2. Since it's an item in the DMG, but switched to a different slot (amulet to head-piece), it should cost me 10 credits. But how much gold will Quixote have to dish out?
Zyme86 04-22-05, 02:19 AM	If I understand it correctly, it costs the standard on pg285 DMG but with the credit cost as well. Nat armour is the 2000(AC bonus^2)+10° [according to the guide lines of recomended uses for body slots(pg288DMG) protection falls under either a cloak, Robe, nAmulet, ar mabye a belt. but because it's a black (in actuality it would be more accuratly a grey market), anything goes.]
KerlanRayne 04-22-05, 05:18 AM	Bob, a 6th level psion, wants to craft a tattoo for his newly aquired ally through leadership. He wants to make a tattoo of vigor. However, he is automatically creating a ML 6 tattoo.No he doesn't. It's not automatically anything. You chose the ML at creation time which can be anywhere from 1 to 6. KerlanRayne
Jindl 04-22-05, 12:18 PM	Don Quixote appears to have lost Mambrino's Helmet. He'll eventually stumble into the black market to find it, but first I have to know how much it will cost. I'm thinking it would translate best as something like a Helmet of Natural Armor +2. Since it's an item in the DMG, but switched to a different slot (amulet to head-piece), it should cost me 10 credits. But how much gold will Quixote have to dish out? Core rules say that if an item doesn't match the affinity for the body slot that it will take up, it costs and extra +50%. Since helmet's do not deal with protection, the item will cost bonus^2 x 1000 gp +50% = 4000 gp +50% = 6000 gp. And 10 credits. -Jindl
Snommelp 04-22-05, 12:55 PM	Core rules say that if an item doesn't match the affinity for the body slot that it will take up, it costs and extra +50%. Since helmet's do not deal with protection, the item will cost bonus^2 x 1000 gp +50% = 4000 gp +50% = 6000 gp. And 10 credits. -Jindl Oh, good. So I don't have to worry about those extra four credits just yet. I can't wait until Don Quixote reaches level 9. He'll be able to take Leadership and actually use it! Only six levels to go until the Don relocates his squire...
Pitlords 04-22-05, 04:41 PM	@all: The last two customization levels have been enabled. Check the Blackmarket for details. Don Quixote appears to have lost Mambrino's Helmet. He'll eventually stumble into the black market to find it, but first I have to know how much it will cost. I'm thinking it would translate best as something like a Helmet of Natural Armor +2. Since it's an item in the DMG, but switched to a different slot (amulet to head-piece), it should cost me 10 credits. But how much gold will Quixote have to dish out? Mambrino's Helmet (of natural armor+2) would cost 12,000 gp [2² x2000 +50%] and 10 credits. Jindl, where did you get the second +50% from? Question: OK, so we make it so that potions and tattoos that are higher than base manifester level cost one credit. So that means that if a character takes scribe tattoo, he is charged a credit every time he makes a 1st level tattoo? It depends on the manifester level. If your tattoo is ML 1, then you won't have to pay any credits. If the ML is higher than that you need to check the Blackmarket (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=396641). Just because you have - let's say - Craft wondrous items doesn't allow you to craft Mambrino's Helmet for free. I would like to say that custom tattoos costing a cred seems a bit...unreasonable. After all, a formula is provided. Still, I guess it's not my place. The problem lies in the nature of tattoos, or psionics for that matter, that powers don't scale in level if they are augmented. A ML 10 crawling tattoo costs 250 gp and gives you 50 hp. Compare that to aid/false life, both one level higher and still only granting 1d8+3 hp. A 1st level character could just buy 4 ML 10 tattoos and he has 200 extra hps at level 1. If that isn't a problem, nothing is. The same for energy ray, here the powerstone. I am considering to take 1 level of wilder for Indri, not because it would fit into the build but because it would boost my powerlevel significantly because of access to energy ray stones, ML 8 -> 8d6+8, no save, effectively no way to protect against the element as I can choose one of five spontaneously, and that for meager 175 gp at no credit cost. There's not a single wizard spell that could do that, not even close. A 1st level wilder can easily kill anyone, he just needs to go first. It is obvious that someone hasn't really thought that to the end. A single little modification that powers scale in level for every 2 additional PP spent would solve the whole problem with psionics and make it balanced thus making the strict rules on tattoos unnecessary. But that would be a house rule.
Jindl 04-22-05, 05:19 PM	Core rules say that if an item doesn't match the affinity for the body slot that it will take up, it costs and extra +50%. Since helmet's do not deal with protection, the item will cost bonus^2 x 1000 gp +50% = 4000 gp +50% = 6000 gp. And 10 credits. -Jindl @Cat - Sorry, it should have been bonus^2 x 2000 gp + 50% doesn't match affinity = 8000 gp +50% = 12000 gp.
Zyme86 04-22-05, 08:46 PM	I would like to have the tatics for the Arthemus Arctus (Arstimis) vs Nell Leonne (Huan) by this weekend
TaggIIV 04-22-05, 10:35 PM	The problem lies in the nature of tattoos, or psionics for that matter, that powers don't scale in level if they are augmented. A ML 10 crawling tattoo costs 250 gp and gives you 50 hp. Compare that to aid/false life, both one level higher and still only granting 1d8+3 hp. A 1st level character could just buy 4 ML 10 tattoos and he has 200 extra hps at level 1. If that isn't a problem, nothing is. Vigors dont stack
spasheridan 04-22-05, 11:07 PM	The same for energy ray, here the powerstone. I am considering to take 1 level of wilder for Indri, not because it would fit into the build but because it would boost my powerlevel significantly because of access to energy ray stones, ML 8 -> 8d6+8, no save, effectively no way to protect against the element as I can choose one of five spontaneously, and that for meager 175 gp at no credit cost. There's not a single wizard spell that could do that, not even close. A 1st level wilder can easily kill anyone, he just needs to go first.Well, you still need to make a manifester check (d20 + 1 vs DC 9 ) to make it work. And I do believe it's well understood that the scaling of psychic powers is a bit troubling. Generally speaking it's a fair thing, blast for blast wizards and psions usually keep it about the same. THe stand outs, of course, are the +1d6 / +1 dc per PP powers. Energy ray is even almost OK considering that it has short range. With your logic taking a single level of wizard is awesome because you can now bust out with scrolls of Magic Missile (cl9) for only 225 GP a shot. I do believe though that limiting items to minimum level is the way to go. I'm almost tempted to push this through to the logical limt and say that ALL items (scrolls and stones included) should be bought / sold at minimum crafting level and it costs a credit to buy things beyond that limit.
xanadu 04-22-05, 11:08 PM	Vigors dont stack True, but when my first vigor tatoo runs low to about a dozen Hit points, I can simply manifest another. Sure I waste 12 HPs but who cares I got 88 for a few Gold.
Sindorin 04-23-05, 03:11 AM	I have a question: Say a mounted character has Deflect Arrows. Can this be used to deflect an arrow shot at his mount?
jstorrie 04-23-05, 03:40 AM	@Sind: There's nothing RAW to suggest that he could.
Sindorin 04-23-05, 03:57 AM	That's kind of what I figured, I just wanted to make sure, because I had heard of a session where this was allowed.
TaggIIV 04-23-05, 09:24 AM	True, but when my first vigor tatoo runs low to about a dozen Hit points, I can simply manifest another. Sure I waste 12 HPs but who cares I got 88 for a few Gold. I dont know what formula you guys are using but an ML 10 Vigor tattoo would cost 1000gp.* (1 PL x 10 ML x 50 x 2 personal) Thats not a "Few gold." What level 1 character do you know of can afford to use 4000gp of Vigor tattoos per match? *If you use crawling tattoo maybe 500, but thats still no chump change.
Caterane 04-23-05, 01:04 PM	Yep, and if you craft the crawling tattoo it's 250 gp for 50 hp. Even if you lose you get 300 gp. and the higher in level the less significant is the cost. Level 1 mage: 54/4 hp How does that look like? @Spash: Enlarge power is basically free so forget about short range. Magic missile can be protected against but unless you want to drink 5 potions of energy resistance for 300 each you are vulnerable to xd6+x energy rays. 9d6 is not even necessary at level 1. A level 3 wilder can kill anyone with a 6d6+6 energy ray and a 1d20+5 vs Dc7 check. For 150 gp.
Zyme86 04-23-05, 01:24 PM	Aularyth vs Inquisitor Valorum is up now (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6006441&postcount=1490)
Zyme86 04-23-05, 02:20 PM	Jindl, where did you get the second +50% from? I found it!!!!! P 285 DMG "Uncustimary space limitation" i.e. cost an additional 50%, he was right. P 288 DMG "some body slots have different affinities for different speficec Wondrous items that don't match the affinity for a particulat body slot should cost 50% more that wondrous items that match the affinity. Compare the voots of teleportation with the helm of teleportation. Unless you ar intentionally aiming for a truly oddball game, avoid patently abusrd comvinations such as eyeglasses of giant strength at and price."
Kaigan 04-23-05, 02:33 PM	This is why I don't like how powerstones are priced. They should be priced for a higher ML. I mean, at the moment a ML 5 vigor only costs 25*5 gp or 125 gp. For a gain of 25 hp i think that is way, way to cheap. It should be the regular price of a ML 5 powerstone which would be 1125, which is a little better.
xanadu 04-23-05, 04:38 PM	This is why I don't like how powerstones are priced. They should be priced for a higher ML. I mean, at the moment a ML 5 vigor only costs 25*5 gp or 125 gp. For a gain of 25 hp i think that is way, way to cheap. It should be the regular price of a ML 5 powerstone which would be 1125, which is a little better. Hmm...Yeah they are too cheap, but a ML 5 powerstone is equivalent to a 3rd level spell, so 375 gp seems about right.
TaggIIV 04-23-05, 05:05 PM	Yep, and if you craft the crawling tattoo it's 250 gp for 50 hp. Even if you lose you get 300 gp. and the higher in level the less significant is the cost. Level 1 mage: 54/4 hp How does that look like? @Spash: Enlarge power is basically free so forget about short range. Magic missile can be protected against but unless you want to drink 5 potions of energy resistance for 300 each you are vulnerable to xd6+x energy rays. 9d6 is not even necessary at level 1. A level 3 wilder can kill anyone with a 6d6+6 energy ray and a 1d20+5 vs Dc7 check. For 150 gp. No. For 250gp you get 25hp off of a crawling tattoo. An ML 10 crawling tattoo is 500gp. And also Energy Ray is not short range, its Medium (100 +5/level) and yes with Enlarge its quite long. And, the level 3 wilder would require a credit for an ML 6 energy ray. And succeed on a ranged touch attack, which isnt an autokill because most psions arent very dextrous. If he was a wiz/psion then he could use true strike in combination, though. Generally, I find arcane spells to be more effective than psionic powers. Not to mention the versatility of a wizard vs a limited psion. Besides the obvious Vigor, which will most likely see decreased use in a couple levels. @Kaigan: What formula are you using for 1125gp for a regular powerstone of ML 5? Assuming your definition of"regular" is a level 3 power which is minimum ML 5, it would cost only 375gp (3 x 5 x 25) 1125gp would be the price for a level 5 power, maybe is where you mixed up. Anyway, I think such a thing would be a great butchering of psions. Psions are not casters and shouldnt be so exactly compared to them. They have less known powers than a sorcerer, generally speaking they have less powers to choose from and less useful (lets face it. the wizard goes invisible while the psion has to first get within 30' and then hope his opponent fails a will save). Augmentability is one of the advantages that balance these shortcomings.
Salzorin 04-23-05, 05:18 PM	um, Energy Ray is Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
TaggIIV 04-23-05, 05:35 PM	Really. Hm.. I could've sworn it was 100. I thought I specifically looked that up when I was making my psion. I guess I confused it with energy push. >_>
spasheridan 04-23-05, 05:51 PM	@Spash: Enlarge power is basically free so forget about short range. Magic missile can be protected against but unless you want to drink 5 potions of energy resistance for 300 each you are vulnerable to xd6+x energy rays. 9d6 is not even necessary at level 1. A level 3 wilder can kill anyone with a 6d6+6 energy ray and a 1d20+5 vs Dc7 check. For 150 gp.True about enlarge. And the 1 shot items have been dominant in many matches. For my ranger I tend not to use anything, but for my psychic warrior I'm always starting the match with a Vigor stone (ml=my level). I'll use my own PP for powers like force screen or biofeedback, but anything that augments well (like vigor) is cast through a stone. a PW just doesn't have the PP to augment his own buffs. My Psion is an extreme case. All buffs and damage powers are from stones for him. Again he only has 14 PP, so that's just 3 maxmal powers a match. To make up for the gap I use stones, potions.. stuff like that. I believe that the economics of the matches will prove that this is NOT a winning straregy, Legion spends 500 to 1000 GP a fight, so my net increase in value has been 1600 GP. That's not enough for the level, so next level the fights get harder... eventually I'll be to poor to keep it up and I'll be forced into a new pattern.
Caterane 04-24-05, 07:11 AM	I don't think that will be the case. The higher in level the more money you get and the less significant the amount you spend now will be. In a campaign, psionics might be balanced because you won't be able to buy vigor and energy ray stones after every fight, if you can buy them at all (psionics are rare in most settings). What I am saying is that you cannot rely on such items in a campaign. If you win every match here by using high-powered one-shot items, then you have learned nothing about your build because in case your DM doesn't hand out such items you will be forced to go new ways, ways you haven't tested in the CoCo. And isn't the CoCo just that? A testing ground for builds? Edit: On a sidenote, shouldn't the element of a power imprinted in the stone be determined already? I mean, the one who made the stone had to manifest the power into the stone and when he manifests the power he has to pick an element. That would certainly make energy ray stones less dangerous. A bit at least. I know the EPHB says "works exactly like manifesting a power normally" but then the creator chooses fire while imprinting but can change it to cold later?
Jindl 04-24-05, 10:52 AM	Edit: On a sidenote, shouldn't the element of a power imprinted in the stone be determined already? I mean, the one who made the stone had to manifest the power into the stone and when he manifests the power he has to pick an element. That would certainly make energy ray stones less dangerous. A bit at least. I know the EPHB says "works exactly like manifesting a power normally" but then the creator chooses fire while imprinting but can change it to cold later? That would be true for tattoos, but not for powerstones. Powerstones are just like scrolls, and we already know that the user of a scroll: resist energy can select the energy type to protect against at the time of casting.
Kaigan 04-24-05, 11:55 AM	however you have to predetermine what protection to protect against in a scroll of protection from...
Jindl 04-24-05, 12:03 PM	however you have to predetermine what protection to protect against in a scroll of protection from... No you don't. The "caster" for a scroll is the person using the scroll. He gets to make all the decisions. The "caster" for a potion is the person crafting the potion. He must make all the decisions. -Jindl
Iced 04-24-05, 12:05 PM	My swim team is going to california state finals for the first time in 10 years. League is rapidly approaching and I just made CIF time in the 100yd butterfly. My training time just gained a couple of hours and i'm truly exhausted. I won't have the time to really participate in the collesium until around may 14, we have practice from 5:30-8 and 3-6 and 8-9:30 in between i'm sleeping and doing my homework.. Sorry again...:(
Sindorin 04-24-05, 12:45 PM	My swim team is going to california state finals for the first time in 10 years. League is rapidly approaching and I just made CIF time in the 100yd butterfly. My training time just gained a couple of hours and i'm truly exhausted. I won't have the time to really participate in the collesium until around may 14, we have practice from 5:30-8 and 3-6 and 8-9:30 in between i'm sleeping and doing my homework.. Sorry again...:( That's pretty impressive. Good luck there, Iced.
Zyme86 04-24-05, 12:52 PM	@Caterane, please answer a rules dicussion in the fights/conserns 4/21. There is a discussion that casting a 1 round spell takes an entire round, not the 1full round action it states in the PHB
Salzorin 04-24-05, 01:14 PM	@Zyme: There is no debate... the rules are quite clear in the SRD that "When you begin a spell that takes 1 round or longer to cast, you must continue the concentration from the current round to just before your turn in the next round (at least). If you lose concentration before the casting is complete, you lose the spell."
Pitlords 04-24-05, 02:15 PM	correct
TaggIIV 04-24-05, 05:13 PM	What are the size requirements for using a creature as a mount? I know its at least one size larger, but it can it be more than one size larger? For example, a small creature riding a large creature. For say.. a kobold riding a dire bat. <_<
xanadu 04-24-05, 05:46 PM	What are the size requirements for using a creature as a mount? I know its at least one size larger, but it can it be more than one size larger? For example, a small creature riding a large creature. For say.. a kobold riding a dire bat. <_< I'm not sure why, but the Dire bat - as descibed in the monster manuel as large as a horse with a wing span larger than a dragon - is suitable only for small sized creatures as per the DMG.
jstorrie 04-24-05, 07:44 PM	As stated on Monster Manual page 313, all outsiders are proficient with all martial weapons unless stated otherwise in their entry. Tieflings and Aasimar have nothing in their entries about weapon proficiency. Is this sufficient ground to assume that tiefling and aasimar characters have proficiency with all simple and martial weapons?
Captain Mutilate 04-24-05, 08:25 PM	QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I want to play a Githzerai. However they're not open gaming content - but they are still core. How would I go about posting my character?
TaggIIV 04-24-05, 09:02 PM	@Jsstorie: Yes, tieflings and aasimar get automatic proficiencies in martial weapons. (see Aku for an example ;)) @CM: Githzerais can be used even though theyre not in the SRD. Just use the MM stats... and if you dont have the book or a pdf you can just copy the racial stats from Keth's sheet for example.
Captain Mutilate 04-24-05, 09:14 PM	I meant to avoid copyright hate, silly! And I shall go copy Keth. His entire character. And I shall name him Htek.
Pittbull 04-25-05, 03:26 AM	EXPANDED KNOWLEDGE [PSIONIC] You learn another power. Prerequisites: Manifester level 3rd. Benefit: Add to your powers known one additional power of any level up to one level lower than the highest-level power you can manifest. You can choose any power, including powers from another discipline’s list or even from another class’s list. Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time, you learn one new power at any level up to one less than the highest-level power you can manifest. What happens, if a psychic warrior (ML3) takes this feat. He has still only level1 powers and there are no level 0 powers. He fullfills the prerequesites. Does he get a level 1 power, because it's the lowest possibility. Is it handled like anybody has a negative abillity-score, but still gets at least 1hp or 1skill-point when leveling? Thanks!
Jindl 04-25-05, 08:56 AM	What happens, if a psychic warrior (ML3) takes this feat. He has still only level1 powers and there are no level 0 powers. He fullfills the prerequesites. Does he get a level 1 power, because it's the lowest possibility. Is it handled like anybody has a negative abillity-score, but still gets at least 1hp or 1skill-point when leveling? Thanks! The feat would have no effect.
Huan 04-26-05, 10:21 AM	What are the size requirements for using a creature as a mount? I know its at least one size larger, but it can it be more than one size larger? For example, a small creature riding a large creature. For say.. a kobold riding a dire bat. <_< I think this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050125a) answers your question nicely. So, it looks like yes, unless you're a particularly fat kobold. ;)
Sunwolf 04-26-05, 11:10 AM	Question on scroll activation for half-casters like paladins and rangers: Suppose a paladin lvl4 wants to cast a Pal 2 spell (like bulls strength) from a scroll. What is his DC to activate the scroll? He is effectively a 2nd lvl caster and Paladins can cast there 2nd level spells at level 8 or effective caster level 4. So is his DC to activate the scroll DC 5 with a caster 2+d20 roll? Or is it DC 9 with 4+d20 roll?
Huan 04-26-05, 11:13 AM	Question on scroll activation for half-casters like paladins and rangers: Suppose a paladin lvl4 wants to cast a Pal 2 spell (like bulls strength) from a scroll. What is his DC to activate the scroll? He is effectively a 2nd lvl caster and Paladins can cast there 2nd level spells at level 8 or effective caster level 4. So is his DC to activate the scroll DC 5 with a caster 2+d20 roll? Or is it DC 9 with 4+d20 roll? DC 4 with caster check 2+d20 .... you only consider the effective CL for these sort of things. EDIT: Jindl was right: 4, not 5
Jindl 04-26-05, 12:03 PM	DC 5 with caster check 2+d20 .... you only consider the effective CL for these sort of things. It's probably a CL3 divine scroll of bulls strength, which makes the DC 4 for the caster level check.
Pitlords 04-29-05, 03:03 AM	@all Pitlords: Please try to post the fight in one piece. If you have to interupt it, better safe it in a text file. If that's absolutely not possible then it's ok to post it in the fights thread. It's extra work for me to always check the fights thread for unfinished fights. The FotW thread is no guarantee; you might have forgotten to post the link there. Thanks
Pitlords 04-29-05, 05:23 AM	Snommelp finally made it to the hairdresser. The end result? Find out here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4034178) It also solves the gender mystery :D
Salrantol 04-29-05, 07:49 AM	@all Pitlords: Please try to post the fight in one piece. If you have to interupt it, better safe it in a text file. If that's absolutely not possible then it's ok to post it in the fights thread. It's extra work for me to always check the fights thread for unfinished fights. The FotW thread is no guarantee; you might have forgotten to post the link there. Thanks Well, maybe if we had a Pitlording FAQ, we wouldn't have this problem. :P In all seriousness, though, I just liked having stuff sblocked and in one window, but since you posted this I figured out how I could do it without posting them, so the ones that I've already posted incomplete are the last one's I'll do that to. Plus, it's my first week of pitlording. Be gentle. :gah:
Zyme86 04-29-05, 10:27 AM	Duely noted for future reference. When it got to 11pm on a school night I hade to stop, I will finish this afternoon
Pitlords 04-29-05, 01:39 PM	Hm, pitlording FAQ http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/think.gif Good idea LOL
Caterane 04-29-05, 02:41 PM	Please read the new thread "The Problem with Psionics (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6061960#post6061960)" and participate in the discussion! Thanks
Snommelp 04-30-05, 05:24 PM	Don Quixote's fight this week recalled to me something that I had been meaning to bring up. It won't change the fight, so feel free to take your time thinking about the question before answering. As far as I can tell, the whip produced from a feather token acts just like a dancing whip, and, apart from the exceptions listed, should be treated as a whip. In the PHB, it is noted that a whip "deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher." Yet I have seen whips born of feather tokens dealing damage to foes that were armored enough to resist the damage. The reason given was that the damage came from grappling. I can find nothing in the RAW to support the argument that a grappling whip can ignore the rules listed for whips. What say all of you? Can a grappling whip damage a foe who is armored?
xanadu 04-30-05, 06:44 PM	Ok, I'm want to make sure I have the rules correct here. Does any form of concealment male targeting a creature with a spell more difficult? If no, which I imagine the answer is, what about stuff like mirror image , blink, or displacement?
Cerebus13 04-30-05, 07:03 PM	@xanadu Depends on what the spell is of course. If it's one that doesn't involve a attack roll (like magic missile or blindness) then anything less than total cover/concealment won't do anythin. However spells that require attack rolls would suffer from the -atk from cover or the miss% from concealment. Blink in SRD: Any individually targeted spell has a 50% chance to fail against you while you’re blinking unless your attacker can target invisible, ethereal creatures. Displacement gives you 50% concealment, but this quote also applies: However, unlike actual total concealment, displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally. Mirror images can be the victim of a targetted spell just as a normal person. They have an AC and everything, but if any attacks are successful on them they are destroyed. I think that's everything....but I'm sure somebody will help me out if I missed stuff :P.
xanadu 05-01-05, 03:43 AM	OK, thanks. One more question. If I target a dispel magic at an opponent, what I be able to know which spells I eliminated and which ones are still functioning?
cellardweller 05-01-05, 04:03 AM	Spellcraft DC20 + spell level - Identify a spell that’s already in place and in effect. You must be able to see or detect the effects of the spell. No action required. No retry.
Cerebus13 05-01-05, 04:24 AM	It's already been established that we can purchase scrolls and other various consumables with metamagic feats applied to them. Inside the description of scrolls we find: Activate the Spell Activating a scroll requires reading the spell from the scroll. The character must be able to see and read the writing on the scroll.By reading here they mean read aloud (which is how we've played it so far) so some sort of noise is always made when casting from a scroll. My question is, can you purchase a scroll with the Silent Spell metamagic feat applied to it and not have to perform any sort of Verbal component....just read the scroll to yourself?
Pittbull 05-01-05, 06:52 AM	It's already been established that we can purchase scrolls and other various consumables with metamagic feats applied to them. Inside the description of scrolls we find: By reading here they mean read aloud (which is how we've played it so far) so some sort of noise is always made when casting from a scroll. My question is, can you purchase a scroll with the Silent Spell metamagic feat applied to it and not have to perform any sort of Verbal component....just read the scroll to yourself? That's, how it works!
Jindl 05-01-05, 10:09 AM	By reading here they mean read aloud (which is how we've played it so far) so some sort of noise is always made when casting from a scroll. My question is, can you purchase a scroll with the Silent Spell metamagic feat applied to it and not have to perform any sort of Verbal component....just read the scroll to yourself? I'm pretty sure that section means "read" as in read the writing on the scroll and understand it. Basically its establishing that you can see the scroll, and that the type of vision you are using to see the scroll allows you to discern the letters written on it (so Blindsight wouldn't work, for example). "Read" also implies that you understand the writing on the scroll, whether by an earlier use of the spellcraft skill or by a previous casting of read magic. Using a scroll (or any spell completion item) requires you to perform whatever verbal and somatic components would be required for casting the spell. It also has a casting time equal to the spells casting time, with a minimum of 1 standard action. So you could use a scroll: Silent True Strike which would have no components, or a scroll: Stilled Magic Missile without worrying about arcane spell failure. However, there is no point in applying the quicken metamagic feat to a scroll, since the minimum casting time is still 1 standard action. -Jindl
McBAMF 05-01-05, 03:38 PM	RACE QUESTION Im new to this board and I have a question about race restrictions. I want to play a Centaur and according to the Dragonlance Campaign setting they have a LA +2. My question is are Centaurs legal races to play?
Caterane 05-01-05, 03:49 PM	RACE QUESTION Im new to this board and I have a question about race restrictions. I want to play a Centaur and according to the Dragonlance Campaign setting they have a LA +2. My question is are Centaurs legal races to play? Hi McBamf! Welcome to the CoCo! Yes, Centaurs are a legal race as are all who have a Level Adjustment in their entry. A complete list with all playable races can be found in the FAQ: Races and Classes (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5222231) section. Please note that a Centaur also has 4 racial HD, making it a ECL 6 character. However, you have to pay credits (see FAQ: Credits (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5660602)) to enter a new character higher than ECL 3 (4 credits per level above ECL 3) so you have to pick another race for now (until you have earned some credits)
McBAMF 05-01-05, 03:51 PM	thanks for the information
spasheridan 05-01-05, 05:41 PM	Hey Folks- Legion the mightily unbalanced has earned his 6th level. Now he takes 1 level in Thrallherd. How do I go about creating my thrall? Questions for him: 1) How many pts does he have for attributes? 2) How much money does he start with? 3) Beyond the ECL 5 restrcition (and it has to be suseptible to psyhcic powers), is there any other restriction on what my thrall can be? 4) Does my thrall appear or do I have to quest for it? Thanks!
Caterane 05-01-05, 05:45 PM	1) 25 pts 2) zero 3) It is ECL-2 4) Quest
Jindl 05-01-05, 09:09 PM	Now that cohorts (and thralls) require long quests to acquire, perhaps we should allow them to have starting wealth equal to an NPC of their level. Requiring a long quest prevents cohort swapping, which was one of the main reasons for not allowing them to have starting wealth (so that the pc couldn't take his cohorts wealth then trade out for another cohort). I think this suggestion is true to the Core rules; nothing says that cohorts and thralls are penniless bums before they meet the pc's. What do you guys think? -Jindl
spasheridan 05-01-05, 09:53 PM	3) It is ECL-2A thrallherd's 1st thrall is almost gaurenteed to be CL-1. The 2nd thrall is limited to CL-2 (available at CL15) . I thought that class features (animal companions, familiars, mounts, and thralls) were immune to the ECL restricitions of the ally rules. Legions leadership score is 7 at level 6, entitling him to a 5th level thrall. SO, to get a thrall I have to go on a quest.. that is a bit strange, considering how the class feature reads: A thrallherd cannot take the Leadership feat; if the character already has it, the feat is lost and replaced by this ability; those who were previously cohorts and followers go their separate ways, and those who are more mentally pliable show up later to take up roles as thralls and believers. A thrallherd’s first thrall and believers arrive within 24 hours of her entry into this class; likewise, lost thralls and believers are replaced within 24 hours. If Legion is still required to go on a quest for his thrall, is anyone willing to run it for me? Also, will I have to go on a quest to recieve believers? Or will they just appear? Thanks!
cellardweller 05-02-05, 03:58 AM	A thrallherd's 1st thrall is almost gaurenteed to be CL-1. The 2nd thrall is limited to CL-2 (available at CL15) . I thought that class features (animal companions, familiars, mounts, and thralls) were immune to the ECL restricitions of the ally rules. Thaumaturge and Thrallherd are exceptions to this due to the power and customisability of the ally (Imagine having to face a Thaumaturge with a planar ally and a full suite of animated dead - egads!). That being said, I agree that it should be ECL-1 for Thralls. SO, to get a thrall I have to go on a quest.. that is a bit strange, considering how the class feature reads: It is an artificial requirement of the CoCo to prevent cohorts/thralls/planar allies from being customised to suit the potential opponents. Without the quest requirement, a gladiator could replace their existing ally with one more suited to their potential opponents at no cost.
Snommelp 05-02-05, 04:12 AM	My question about the Whip token still stands, if anyone wants to take a stab at it. On a different topic: a donkey has a CR of 1/6. If I had a donkey as an ally, would that count towards my cohort total as 0 or 1? 1/6 is definitely not nothing, but it's also a far cry from 1.
Caterane 05-02-05, 04:25 AM	Another thing to consider is that the thrall that arrives is normally determined by the DM. I don't think you can sit down and create the cohort/thrall to the last detail plus pick the equipment and this guy knocks on your door within 24 hours. This however is possible in the CoCo which is an advantage that should be somewhat evened out by a drawback. Now that cohorts (and thralls) require long quests to acquire, perhaps we should allow them to have starting wealth equal to an NPC of their level. Requiring a long quest prevents cohort swapping, which was one of the main reasons for not allowing them to have starting wealth (so that the pc couldn't take his cohorts wealth then trade out for another cohort). I think this suggestion is true to the Core rules; nothing says that cohorts and thralls are penniless bums before they meet the pc's. What I would do is to get a cohort, equip him with what I need, and take all his stuff. It also increases the effective wealth of your character(-sheet) tremendously. IMO cohorts are already the most powerful ally one can get or to say it in other words: take away the focus from the PC like no one else. With the appropriate free equipment on top of that it wouldn't be impossible for the cohort to fight the opponoment alone.
Jindl 05-02-05, 11:32 AM	What I would do is to get a cohort, equip him with what I need, and take all his stuff. It also increases the effective wealth of your character(-sheet) tremendously. IMO cohorts are already the most powerful ally one can get or to say it in other words: take away the focus from the PC like no one else. With the appropriate free equipment on top of that it wouldn't be impossible for the cohort to fight the opponoment alone. I think the Core rules suggest that no cohort would allow his master to rob him blind. Cohorts do, after all, demand a share to the party treasure. They are also typically unwilling to expend valuable resources unless the situation has dire need. I think in the spirit of the Core rules we could just disallow letting PC's acquire any equipment/wealth from their cohort. We have already disallowed part of this, by saying cohorts cannot help craft. I think that makes much more sense than assuming that Cohorts arrive without any equipment. -Jindl
McBAMF 05-02-05, 12:36 PM	I was wondering if this board lets unarmed strikes be weapon finesseable. Also, do claws and a monk's unarmed strike damage stack.
Sindorin 05-02-05, 12:39 PM	Weapon Finesse is a non-weapon-specific feat that allows you to use your dex bonus in place of your str bonus for all light melee weapons. I'm not sure if an unarmed strike counts as a light melee weapon or not.
spasheridan 05-02-05, 12:40 PM	Bookeeping wise it maybe a pain, but here's some thoughts: 1) Cohorts / THralls have their OWN GP / Gear and it NEVER leaves their character sheet. 2) Cohorts / Thralls keep the 25% penalty on GP rewards as their own, otherwise it'll be more efficient to throw away a thrall every level and get his clone with better gear. 3) Masters may "lend" gear to their Cohorts / Thralls, this gear is kept on the main PC's character sheet and is the main PC's property. 4) Cohorts / Thralls need some kind of restriction on disposable / 1 shot items. Either none, healing only, or some % restriction. Thralls are an interesting subset of cohorts. If the initial thrall is called through a long quest, I would say that a replacement thrall could be called through a short quest. One of the class abiliites is to kind of pick and choose your thralls, and it all happens "off stage" so forcing it back onto the stage is a bit of a kick in the teeth. A long quest is almost a level in XP, so this is a long time away from the arena. The 2nd full thrall may need another long quest to activate, but that is a ways off for anyone. Followers / Believers should just "appear", they should definitly not need a quest to activate. Do they appear geared as their NPC version? (healer with healing kit, blacksmith with smith tools, guard with leather armor & spear, beggar with beggin bowl..)
McBAMF 05-02-05, 12:42 PM	yeah, thats basically my point. Do unarmed strikes (fist+claws) count as light weapons.
Snommelp 05-02-05, 12:43 PM	From the PHB, page 121: "An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat (page 102) to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls made with an unarmed strike." Doesn't get much plainer than that.
Sindorin 05-02-05, 12:44 PM	That's what I get for posting during class w/o any books :cool:
Snommelp 05-02-05, 12:50 PM	That's what I get for posting during class w/o any books :cool: To quote countless supervisors and managers: "Get back to work!" :P The cohort debate is pushing my questions away from the action rather quickly, so just a friendly reminder: two questions, both relevent to people other than myself, are posed by me further up on this page and the prior page. They are ripe for the answering, so have at them, if you wish.
McBAMF 05-02-05, 12:53 PM	thanks for the fast posts everyone
Jindl 05-02-05, 02:19 PM	Don Quixote's fight this week recalled to me something that I had been meaning to bring up. It won't change the fight, so feel free to take your time thinking about the question before answering. As far as I can tell, the whip produced from a feather token acts just like a dancing whip, and, apart from the exceptions listed, should be treated as a whip. In the PHB, it is noted that a whip "deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher." Yet I have seen whips born of feather tokens dealing damage to foes that were armored enough to resist the damage. The reason given was that the damage came from grappling. I can find nothing in the RAW to support the argument that a grappling whip can ignore the rules listed for whips. What say all of you? Can a grappling whip damage a foe who is armored? I think we have always assumed that when the feather token description describes the weapon as dealing 1d6+1 points of damage with no restrictions listed, it overrides the normal restrictions on whips dealing subdual damage only and then only to a limited class of targets. -Jindl
Sindorin 05-02-05, 02:22 PM	Don Quixote's fight this week recalled to me something that I had been meaning to bring up. It won't change the fight, so feel free to take your time thinking about the question before answering. As far as I can tell, the whip produced from a feather token acts just like a dancing whip, and, apart from the exceptions listed, should be treated as a whip. In the PHB, it is noted that a whip "deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher." Yet I have seen whips born of feather tokens dealing damage to foes that were armored enough to resist the damage. The reason given was that the damage came from grappling. I can find nothing in the RAW to support the argument that a grappling whip can ignore the rules listed for whips. What say all of you? Can a grappling whip damage a foe who is armored? I figured I would bring this back so everyone knows what Snommelp is referring to. I believe pitlords may possibly have simply overlooked the part where it says that the whip cannot damage an armored creature or natural +3 creature. The whip is still useful in that it can occupy an opponent though. Edit: tch, Jindl beat me :)
Sindorin 05-02-05, 02:56 PM	On a different topic: a donkey has a CR of 1/6. If I had a donkey as an ally, would that count towards my cohort total as 0 or 1? 1/6 is definitely not nothing, but it's also a far cry from 1. Well, sad enough as it is, the way the rules are worded imply that any ally takes part of the reward away as long as they participate in the encounter.
Snommelp 05-02-05, 06:04 PM	Well, sad enough as it is, the way the rules are worded imply that any ally takes part of the reward away as long as they participate in the encounter. Right, but I'm thinking about multiple allies. You always lose the same amount of gold and xp when you use allies, regardless of the number of allies. The reason I raised the donkey question is because Sancho Panza rides a donkey, and depending on whether we round up or down will determine what level Sancho will be when Don Quixote finds him again. Concerning the whip: Jindl says the lack of listed restrictions for the token overrides the listed restrictions in the PHB, while Sindorin seems to agree that whips from feather tokens deal no damage. Anyone else willing to contribute to the discussion?
Jindl 05-02-05, 06:08 PM	Concerning the whip: Jindl says the lack of listed restrictions for the token overrides the listed restrictions in the PHB, while Sindorin seems to agree that whips from feather tokens deal no damage. Anyone else willing to contribute to the discussion? I also wanted to point out that the feather token write-up says the whip deals real damage = 1d6+1, unlike a normal whip which deals subdual damage. If the token deals real damage, then it may be safe to assume that it affects all creatures, not just a limited class of unarmored opponents with less than +3 natural armor.
Snommelp 05-02-05, 06:12 PM	I also wanted to point out that the feather token write-up says the whip deals real damage = 1d6+1, unlike a normal whip which deals subdual damage. If the token deals real damage, then it may be safe to assume that it affects all creatures, not just a limited class of unarmored opponents with less than +3 natural armor. Hrm... yes, that would probably be a safe assumption. However, isn't it a general rule that magical weapons follow the same rules as their normal counterparts, save for the listed differences? That seems to be the root question.
Caterane 05-02-05, 06:30 PM	Announcement As you might have guessed by reading the Problem with Psionics (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=421717) thread, the proposal I made and which has been backed up by all Elders and many members, becomes written CoCo rule from Wednesday, the 4.May on! For my specialists who always write the wrong date into the headline: that's in 2 days :D The proposal is written in the other thread but to summarize it here in one sentence: Psionic expendable items that are augmented scale in power level for pricing purposes. That means, if you buy a 30 hp vigor stone (ML 6), you have to pay 450 gp because vigor has become a 3rd level power due to the augmentation. That also means, that you can buy stones at a higher manifester level without it being augmented and in this case the power level (and the price) does not scale. Might be good to resist dispels although the vigor above would only grant 5 hp in that case. Credit costs still apply normally. For those who possess such items you can either a) pay the correct difference or b) refund it for full. Pitlords are adviced to check the sheets for such items and report any violation. @Xanadu: Necavi may keep the vigor dorje from the quest; after all, it was your quest reward. However, in case you want to sell it you will only get the old price, half of it even. Add a * behind the item which links to this post.
Zerone 05-02-05, 06:40 PM	'ello all! And how have you been? Well, I might post a character. I do have several questions first... :D 1. Does a Red Wizard's 'Spell Power' ability affect All Schools or just the Specialization? I would like to point you to the Archmage description as well... 2. How does one go about purchasing/crafting a 'Special Magic Item' - i.e. Gloves of Dex. +1? 3. Does this mean one can craft Earings of Dex. +1? I think that is it for now... perhaps more to come... and thanks for the help! *•. Zerone
Cerebus13 05-02-05, 06:47 PM	1. Red Wizards aren't Core/SRD material methinks, so I don't think you can use them. 2 & 3) This (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=396641) thread and this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5660668) one should probably answer your questions for that. Any other questions go ahead and fire away.
Sindorin 05-02-05, 06:55 PM	'ello all! And how have you been? Well, I might post a character. I do have several questions first... :D 1. Does a Red Wizard's 'Spell Power' ability affect All Schools or just the Specialization? I would like to point you to the Archmage description as well... 2. How does one go about purchasing/crafting a 'Special Magic Item' - i.e. Gloves of Dex. +1? 3. Does this mean one can craft Earings of Dex. +1? I think that is it for now... perhaps more to come... and thanks for the help! *•. Zerone Welcome back Zerone! Seeing as how I played the first Red Wizard here, I can help! 1) Spell power affects all caster level-dependent spell variables (such as how many d6 your Fireball does). 2) Credits are used to purchase the custom items. 3) Yes, for a few credits (not sure how many). If you're planning on playing a Red Wizard, be careful to make sure that you account for the fact that you will only be able to cast 1/3 of your total spell levels, and that your scrolls are a maximum caster level of ECL+2.
Zerone 05-02-05, 06:57 PM	Hello Cerebus13 :D Red Wizards are in the DMG (Core Rulebook II) and are listed in the CoCo under playable character prestige classes (where ever I saw them listed - probably under the getting started/character creation links), plus I have played one in the previous version of the CoCo. So unless I missed something, I think they are an allowable prestige class. Can anyone out there confirm if they are allowed or not? Thanks for the links on the item creation/purchasing. :) *•. Z
Zerone 05-02-05, 07:06 PM	Hey Sindorin! :D Oh yeah, the 1/3rd rule... What does that mean in the following examples? Wiz 3, 18 Int gets (2+1) 1st & (1+1) 2nd for 7 total levels, divided by 3 = 2.33. Spec. Wiz 3, 18 Int gets (2+1+1) 1st & (1+1+1) 2nd for 10 total /3 = 3.33. Correct? Do you round up? If you round up, only if > 0.5 or when? Thanks again... *•. Z
Sindorin 05-02-05, 07:14 PM	Hey Sindorin! :D Oh yeah, the 1/3rd rule... What does that mean in the following examples? Wiz 3, 18 Int gets (2+1) 1st & (1+1) 2nd for 7 total levels, divided by 3 = 2.33. Spec. Wiz 3, 18 Int gets (2+1+1) 1st & (1+1+1) 2nd for 10 total /3 = 3.33. Correct? Do you round up? If you round up, only if > 0.5 or when? Thanks again... *•. Z Yes, fortunately we round up. If you have an extra .33 of levels after dividing by three, that .33 counts as another level you may use. ~Sindorin
Cerebus13 05-02-05, 08:00 PM	Hello Cerebus13 :D Red Wizards are in the DMG (Core Rulebook II) and are listed in the CoCo under playable character prestige classes (where ever I saw them listed - probably under the getting started/character creation links), plus I have played one in the previous version of the CoCo. So unless I missed something, I think they are an allowable prestige class. Can anyone out there confirm if they are allowed or not? Thanks for the links on the item creation/purchasing. :) *•. ZGah, I haven't actually opened a 3.5 DMG in months so I forgot the little tidbits that didn't make it into the SRD.... But anyways, for #1 yes the Spell Power ability boosts all yer magics duration/damage/etc.. that is based on caster level. Thankfully the CoCo goes against the D&D norm to always round down where the 1/3rd rule is concerned, helps to plan out stats to push you just a bit over a whole number divisible by 3 to get an extra spell level :P.
Jindl 05-02-05, 09:09 PM	@Zerone - Welcome back !!
Zerone 05-02-05, 09:17 PM	'ello Jindl! Thanks for the welcome back... good thing my name's not 'Carter'... By the way, sorry for never getting back to you on the CoCo campaign questions, when I check my PM for messages, their relevance was well past. *•. Z
Salzorin 05-02-05, 09:24 PM	dear lord Zerone... just how many characters are you drawin' up?
Zerone 05-02-05, 09:44 PM	All great warriors must have a place to call home... When crafting an 'illegal' item, can you craft Gloves/Earings of Dex. +6? :D *•. Z
Jindl 05-02-05, 09:51 PM	All great warriors must have a place to call home... When crafting an 'illegal' item, can you craft Gloves/Earings of Dex. +6? :D *•. Z Yes, but you should know that the Core rules includes rules for slot affinities in the item creation section, and if your item slot doesn't match the purpose of the item, it is an extra 50% to craft it. -Jindl
Megrim_Lord 05-02-05, 09:51 PM	'ello Jindl! Thanks for the welcome back... good thing my name's not 'Carter'... By the way, sorry for never getting back to you on the CoCo campaign questions, when I check my PM for messages, their relevance was well past. *•. Z actually the show is 'Welcome Back Cotter' :D
Megrim_Lord 05-02-05, 09:57 PM	Announcement As you might have guessed by reading the Problem with Psionics (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=421717) thread, the proposal I made and which has been backed up by all Elders and many members, becomes written CoCo rule from Wednesday, the 4.May on! For my specialists who always write the wrong date into the headline: that's in 2 days :D The proposal is written in the other thread but to summarize it here in one sentence: Psionic expendable items that are augmented scale in power level for pricing purposes. That means, if you buy a 30 hp vigor stone (ML 6), you have to pay 450 gp because vigor has become a 3rd level power due to the augmentation. That also means, that you can buy stones at a higher manifester level without it being augmented and in this case the power level (and the price) does not scale. Might be good to resist dispels although the vigor above would only grant 5 hp in that case. Credit costs still apply normally. For those who possess such items you can either a) pay the correct difference or b) refund it for full. Pitlords are adviced to check the sheets for such items and report any violation. @Xanadu: Necavi may keep the vigor dorje from the quest; after all, it was your quest reward. However, in case you want to sell it you will only get the old price, half of it even. Add a * behind the item which links to this post. :weep: :nonono: :censored: :headexplo :fight!: *Dr. Salvador Kills you* *Has aneurism and dies* :ghosted:
Zerone 05-02-05, 09:59 PM	Yes, but you should know that the Core rules includes rules for slot affinities in the item creation section, and if your item slot doesn't match the purpose of the item, it is an extra 50% to craft it. -Jindl Hmmm... so you could craft an item with +10 to a stat? That does not sound fun... Does the +50% count for xp as well? Thanks all, and oh yeah, Cotter... Carter didn't sound correct? :) *•. Z
Jindl 05-03-05, 01:09 PM	Hmmm... so you could craft an item with +10 to a stat? That does not sound fun... Does the +50% count for xp as well? Thanks all, and oh yeah, Cotter... Carter didn't sound correct? :) *•. Z No, we aren't allowing epic items (epic means more than a +6 enhancement bonus to a stat, a +5 insight bonus to a stat, or a +5 enhancement bonus to armor/weapons). Cat may have put an example of a +6 sword in the FAQ, but that is an epic item and is NOT AVAILABLE. Yes, the +50% is to the market value of the item and so affects both gp and xp cost to create.
Cerebus13 05-03-05, 02:46 PM	Rules question: How does the CoCo interpret the AC bonus granted from wearing a Monk's Belt if you are not a monk? Does a PC get to add their Wis bonus to AC along with the +1 AC from a 1st level monk....or do they only get the +1?
Megrim_Lord 05-03-05, 08:17 PM	Ok, a question or two 1. Does UMD work for psionic devices as pertaining to the arena? 2. If not, do classes with UMD get UPD as a class skill?
KerlanRayne 05-03-05, 09:05 PM	How does the CoCo interpret the AC bonus granted from wearing a Monk's Belt if you are not a monk? Does a PC get to add their Wis bonus to AC along with the +1 AC from a 1st level monk....or do they only get the +1?Yes, non monks get their WIS to AC. Yes, but you should know that the Core rules includes rules for slot affinities in the item creation section, and if your item slot doesn't match the purpose of the item, it is an extra 50% to craft it.Actually, what slot would earrings take? Sounds slotless to me which would mean double the cost. @Xanadu: Necavi may keep the vigor dorje from the quest; after all, it was your quest reward. However, in case you want to sell it you will only get the old price, half of it even. Add a * behind the item which links to this post. But his Dorje had nothing to do with the change in the rules. The power level has always scaled with the manifester level. All you did was change the other items to match it. It was wrong when he got it in the quest and more than doubles his net worth. At the very least I think it should be lowered to manifester level 3 or 4. (Sorry, xanadu, but doubling your net worth is a big thing.) KerlanRayne PS - Can anyone take Kaigan's fights? He was doing the only one I'm in.
Jindl 05-03-05, 09:12 PM	Ok, a question or two 1. Does UMD work for psionic devices as pertaining to the arena? 2. If not, do classes with UMD get UPD as a class skill? I have recommended that transparency apply to UMD. AFAIK, that has not been accepted or denied. It is a rule we use in my RL game, and one which I think makes sense. But here, we'll have to see what other people think. :D Yes, but you should know that the Core rules includes rules for slot affinities in the item creation section, and if your item slot doesn't match the purpose of the item, it is an extra 50% to craft it. Actually, what slot would earrings take? Sounds slotless to me which would mean double the cost. I was assuming they would count as either goggles or a hat. Truly slotless items work just fine while in your pocket. Earrings have to be worn. -Jindl
Megrim_Lord 05-03-05, 09:27 PM	correct me if I'm wrong, but shield bonuses don't stack right?
Salzorin 05-03-05, 09:29 PM	correct. shield bonuses don't stack.
Megrim_Lord 05-03-05, 09:29 PM	correct. shield bonuses don't stack. thought so
Megrim_Lord 05-03-05, 09:37 PM	one last question, can you augment a psilike ability?
cellardweller 05-03-05, 10:26 PM	creatures with psi-like abilities are assigned a manifester level, which indicates how difficult it is to dispel their psi-like effects and determines all level-dependent variables (such as range or duration) the abilities might have. When a creature uses a psi-like ability, the power is manifested as if the creature had spent a number of power points equal to its manifester level, which may augment the power to improve its damage or save DC. ..
cellardweller 05-03-05, 10:34 PM	I have recommended that transparency apply to UMD. AFAIK, that has not been accepted or denied. It is a rule we use in my RL game, and one which I think makes sense. But here, we'll have to see what other people think. :D When psionics were first introduced the decision to use full-transparency was made - to my recollection this has not been recinded.
Jindl 05-03-05, 10:51 PM	When psionics were first introduced the decision to use full-transparency was made - to my recollection this has not been recinded. This is true. However, magic=psionics transparency does not normally apply to skills or feats. Spellcraft remains different than Psicraft. Craft Wondrous Items does not equal Craft Universal Items. Etc. UMD would be the only transparent skill if it was assumed to be the same as UPD. I'm fine with including it in the transparency. I just don't think that decision has already been made. -Jindl
Snommelp 05-04-05, 02:44 AM	Just a friendly note: Cedric Fischer (ECL 4) is now a healer for hire, with gladiatorial bouts as a side job. If anybody wants to go questing and wants to bring a healer along, consider Cedric.[/advertisement] Also, I lost track of my own discussion. Did someone clarify whether a donkey's CR 1/6 rounded up or down when bringing in multiple allies? It's not too terribly pertinent at the moment, since Don Quixote won't be able to locate Sancho until he's ECL 9, but I like to know things ahead of time.
Pittbull 05-04-05, 06:52 AM	@Zerone: A little bit late, but from the heart! Nice to have you back!
cellardweller 05-04-05, 09:13 AM	This is true. However, magic=psionics transparency does not normally apply to skills or feats. Spellcraft remains different than Psicraft. Craft Wondrous Items does not equal Craft Universal Items. Etc. UMD would be the only transparent skill if it was assumed to be the same as UPD. I'm fine with including it in the transparency. I just don't think that decision has already been made. Went digging around for the discussion and found it here. Nothing official was ever stated just KerlanRayne asking if it would and Magagumo saying yes. The old tavern thread is similarly bare of an official announcment for the period of May-June 04.
Jindl 05-04-05, 09:46 AM	Went digging around for the discussion and found it here. Nothing official was ever stated just KerlanRayne asking if it would and Magagumo saying yes. The old tavern thread is similarly bare of an official announcment for the period of May-June 04. That's some serious "digging". So what say you, Pittbull and cellar? Do we go with Mag's answer and make UMD = UPD?
cellardweller 05-04-05, 10:13 AM	yes UMD==UPD
Pittbull 05-04-05, 10:43 AM	Yes! UMD==[transparency]==UPD! From my standpoint too. CAT?
Zerone 05-04-05, 10:55 AM	Thanks Pitbull :D More questions for the willing... 1. Can one of you tell me how to scribe a 1st lvl spell at CL 2 & CL3? Just want to make sure I've got it corect. 2. Do X/day abilities also follow the 1/3 rule? Take the Monk's Stunning Fist ability for example. 3. Does it make a difference if it's class related vs. racial? Thanks, *•. Zerone
Salzorin 05-04-05, 11:13 AM	1) It's spell level x caster level x25gp for the base price of scrolls. If you're scribing, you pay 1/2 of the base price in gp and 1/25 of the base price in xp. 2) Yep, 1/3 on abilities as well
Sindorin 05-04-05, 11:55 AM	Question on Leadership Cohorts - Is a leadership cohort acquired through a 3 week quest or a 1 week mini quest? Are there any questlords open if it requires three weeks? Sokai is ready to acquire a cohort at level 6. Anyone? Anyone?
Megrim_Lord 05-04-05, 04:53 PM	.. ok, does that mean yes, or does that mean only if the ability's ML is higher than the base ML for that power?
Zerone 05-04-05, 06:01 PM	Ok, again on the scribe topic... To scribe a Shield (CL 3), it would cost 1 xp & 37.5 gp?
Salzorin 05-04-05, 06:02 PM	3xp and 37.5gp... the base price is 75, so 1/25th of 75 is 3xp
Megrim_Lord 05-04-05, 06:41 PM	Question on Leadership Cohorts - Is a leadership cohort acquired through a 3 week quest or a 1 week mini quest? Are there any questlords open if it requires three weeks? Sokai is ready to acquire a cohort at level 6. Anyone? Anyone? I'm still open, but I'm not sure if I'm able to. I've been rather absorbed into other things and I haven't even gotten time to work on the Quest Aramil requested for Grakk like a month ago. at this point Cat, you might as well scratch me off the list, but if I find more time I'll be open to trying again.
cellardweller 05-04-05, 09:01 PM	ok, does that mean yes, or does that mean only if the ability's ML is higher than the base ML for that power? A power is augmented up to its ML for example a phrenic creature can manifest force screen with ML=HD. It would provide 4AC at 1HD, 5AC at 5HD, 6AC at 9HD etc.
Arstimis 05-04-05, 10:56 PM	Well guys, Im going to have to go on a break from this. I'll be stopping for a while Maybe I'll come back whenver i get some kind of luck, because from 1) having a fight delayed 3 weeks (after being delayed 2 weeks less than a month before) 2) just having bad luck with rolls during fights It gets pretty frustrating trying this Also, I dont have as much time as I used to Another reason im putting this on pause is the ridiculous exp penalty I'd recieve just because i'd choose use some equipment i bought in a fight. That is, my horse. It is a very important part of my build, as could easily be seen from the lack of good fights without it. Please, i'd love a reasonable explanation as to why we get exp penalties for having a riding mount, but no one gets exp penalties for using armor or weapon, or any other equipment (especially magical stuff)? Please tell me how either of those are any different
Caterane 05-05-05, 03:40 AM	Arti, having bad luck and because your fight has been delayed are no reasons to leave; perhaps be annoyed or something. That just happens and especially on the bad luck part, I can tell you novels. Delayed fights also happen so better make a third PC. The XP penalty will be revised soon. I am currently discussing this with Cellardweller who made an excellent proposal and this will have an impact on the penalty. While you gain 16% penalty for a heavy warhorse (8% for a light one) at level 3, this would lessen the higher in level you get. For example, only 5% at level 5 for a light warhorse. I can't counter the time reason you mentioned because that's a real reason but I hope with the other lesser reasons explained, I hope you reverse your decision. PS: warhorses are no equipment but allies. If they would be then you could buy a thousand warhorses (like you can buy a thousand breastplates) and enter with all of them.
Arstimis 05-05-05, 06:38 AM	PS: warhorses are no equipment but allies. If they would be then you could buy a thousand warhorses (like you can buy a thousand breastplates) and enter with all of them.That is only because you houseruled warhorses as being allies and saying you could only bring 1 Other than a houserule, magic equipment and horses are no different, but there are no exp penalties for using magic equipment. My horse would be more equipment than an ally, because I would only use it to ride, not to attack for me
Caterane 05-05-05, 06:43 AM	Well, that's your choice but just because I say I don't use Nightingale to attack doesn't make it equipment.
Kaigan 05-05-05, 10:06 AM	Haha, well in the SRD and the PHB all horses, riding dogs, guard dogs, warhorses are listed under equipment.
Arstimis 05-05-05, 11:36 AM	There ya go, they are equipment according to the PHB, so unless your going directly against the PHB, then you cant call them allies and give me penalties But if gladius is cool with going against the PHB, then go for it But minus the technical wording, please tell me how a riding horse is any different than any other equipment, that should make it warrant penalties. I'd really like a logical argument to this
Snommelp 05-05-05, 11:54 AM	By that same token, according to the PHB a 9th level spell cast by somebody else is Equipment. By your logic, a messenger is Equipment, as is a toll for a toll road. In the PHB, Chapter 7: Equipment uses a loose definition of equipment: things your character can buy. That is the only explanation for the inclusion of such things as messengers and tolls. You'll also notice that, according to the MM, horses &c. are animals, complete with stat blocks. Does your sword come with a stat block? How about your breastplate?
Caterane 05-05-05, 12:00 PM	I've just checked my dictionary just to make sure the english word "equipment" doesn't have any secondary meaning but I couldn't find any. Perhaps american english has a different meaning, I don't know. The CoCo and the PHB however define it that way: - Equipment are non-living non-sentinent things. - Allies are beings with a stat block. In which category would you put a warhorse?
Zyme86 05-05-05, 12:03 PM	Daka would have the former
Arstimis 05-05-05, 12:07 PM	I've just checked my dictionary just to make sure the english word "equipment" doesn't have any secondary meaning but I couldn't find any. Perhaps american english has a different meaning, I don't know. The CoCo and the PHB however define it that way: - Equipment are non-living non-sentinent things. - Allies are beings with a stat block. In which category would you put a warhorse?It doesnt matter where I would put a warhorse. Tell me where The PHB placed the warhorse And again, you dont answer my main question how is a riding horse any different from any other equipment, that should make it warrant penalties.
Snommelp 05-05-05, 12:07 PM	Daka would have the former Well, there you have it. Since Daka wants it to be this way, it must therefore be the truth. Or perhaps I can pose to you all a strange and new hypothesis: the truth is not relative. It does not change to fit with our desires. It is what it is, unchanging.
Snommelp 05-05-05, 12:08 PM	It doesnt matter where I would put a warhorse. Tell me where The PHB placed the warhorse And again, you dont answer my main question how is a riding horse any different from any other equipment, that should make it warrant penalties. The PHB put the warhorse in the same place as it put "Ship's passage" and "Hireling, trained." Are these things, too, equipment?
Sindorin 05-05-05, 12:27 PM	I've just checked my dictionary just to make sure the english word "equipment" doesn't have any secondary meaning but I couldn't find any. Perhaps american english has a different meaning, I don't know. Yes, American English does have a secondary meaning for "equipment". However, I don't want my account getting reported to Wizards of the Coast, so I'll leave this to the secular imagination present in this forum. :embarrass
Arstimis 05-05-05, 12:44 PM	The PHB put the warhorse in the same place as it put "Ship's passage" and "Hireling, trained." Are these things, too, equipment? What does the PHB say, and that is still not my main question How is a riding horse any different from any other equipment, that should make it warrant penalties?
Sindorin 05-05-05, 12:59 PM	I think that the horse/warhorse/other 'allies' are listed under equipment solely because they are "bought". There are different classes of horses - light, heavy, war or domestic - and thus the way they are obtained needed explanation so they listed them under equipment. I believe that they are in no way mere equipment, even if they do not attack. It almost makes me wonder if an Intelligent Weapon is considered equipment or ally though.
Cerebus13 05-05-05, 01:05 PM	What does the PHB say, and that is still not my main question How is a riding horse any different from any other equipment, that should make it warrant penalties?By the PHB it isn't different than other standard equipment technically, but in a rules system like the CoCo they can upset balance greatly at lower ECL. "But it goes against the PHB as a houserule" is a poor argument to allow something so easily abused to be legal. The CoCo allows for unlimited purchasing of allowed equipment between battles (which is not always the case in typical D&D campaigns) so some consessions have to be made. Without them a silly ECL3 character could go into battle with say....a dozen Light Warhorses and still have 1200 gp left over for any other equipment they may need.
Caterane 05-05-05, 01:09 PM	What does the PHB say, and that is still not my main question How is a riding horse any different from any other equipment, that should make it warrant penalties? If I buy 10 masterwork cold iron greatswords (400 gp), I have wasted my money. If I buy 10 heavy warhorses (400 gp) and send them ("send them" opposed to "wield it") at my opponoment, they (not "the sword") will win the fight for me and I have done nothing. That's the difference. Same is true for any number. While a greatsword or any other equipment is useless without your guidance and its effectivity solely depends on how good you are, a horse is a seperate being that has nothing to do with you but has its own stats. And I bet all my money that if Arthemus would be overrun by 10 warhorses while his opponoment is invisible and does nothing, you would be the first to complain. And if we now let common sense into this discussion again: just because they are listed in the equipment section doesn't mean they are equipment in the very meaning of the word. PS: There ya go, they are equipment according to the PHB, so unless your going directly against the PHB, then you cant call them allies By that same token, according to the PHB a 9th level spell cast by somebody else is Equipment. By your logic, a messenger is Equipment, as is a toll for a toll road. In the PHB, Chapter 7: Equipment uses a loose definition of equipment: things your character can buy. That is the only explanation for the inclusion of such things as messengers and tolls. What does the PHB say, that is still not my main question
Jindl 05-05-05, 01:23 PM	If I buy 10 masterwork cold iron greatswords (400 gp), I have wasted my money. Not if your name is Anna, Ghost of the Arena...
Caterane 05-05-05, 01:27 PM	Okay, I think Anna should get an XP penalty too :D
Snommelp 05-05-05, 01:36 PM	What does the PHB say, and that is still not my main question How is a riding horse any different from any other equipment, that should make it warrant penalties?I thought I had shown you how it was different from equipment by pointing out that other things (like tolls and a Ship's passage) which were most certainly not equipment were listed in the equipment section. I also pointe to you that horses, unlike other equipment like swords, come with full stat blocks. You choose to ignore the sense behind these aguments, returning to the tired statement of "it is listed under equipment in the PHB." If you choose to ignore logic, and not just logic but logic that actually applies to DnD, then I cannot help you, Arstimis. All I can say is that, if your continued arguing somehow changes CoCo, I will insist on bringing hirelings (which are equipment) and equipping them with swords (also equipment). That will be the entire arsenal of my character: hirelings and swords. Then we will see if you change your mind.
Caterane 05-05-05, 01:45 PM	Well said. And to help Arty ease his mind about allies and xp penalty, I'll post an excerpt from Cellardweller's Proposal to show him how his horse will affect his xp/gp in the near future. Examples Level 3 gladiator brings in ...a light warhorse (CA=1) : (1/3*.25) 8.33% xp and gold penalty ...a heavy warhorse (CA=2) : (2/3*.25) 16.67% gp and xp penalty. ...a heavy warhorse and a trained wolf (CA=3) : (3/3*.25) 25% xp and gold penalty. ...2 heavy warhorses (CA=4) : not permitted (CA>ECL) ...a giant owl (CA=3) : not permitted (eal>ECL-2) A Level 4 gladiator ...a light warhorse (CA=1) : (1/4*.25) 6.25% xp and gold penalty ...a heavy warhorse (CA=2) : (2/4*.25) 12.5% gp and xp penalty. ...a heavy warhorse and a trained wolf (CA=3) : (3/4*.25) 18.75% xp and gold penalty. ...2 heavy warhorses (CA=4) : (4/4*.25) 25% xp and gold penalty. ...a 5 headed hydra (CA=4) : Not permitted (ecr > ECL-4) A Level 5 gladiator ...a light warhorse (CA=1) : (1/5*.25) 5% xp and gold penalty ...a heavy warhorse (CA=2) : (2/5*.25) 10% gp and xp penalty. ...5 wolf skeletons (CA=5) : (5/5*.25) 25% xp and gold penalty. So Arthemus would have to pay 6.25% for his light warhorse. If he would use a normal riding horse (because he doesn't use it to fight), the penalty would lessen further. I think that's acceptable considering the horse has more HD than Arthemus.
Sindorin 05-05-05, 01:51 PM	Wait a second, I thought we were only allowed to bring one bought ally. Caterane has mentioned bringing in 10 heavy warhorses, and Cellardwellar's proposal gives results if you bring in two heavy warhorses, even if it is illegal. I am very very confused right now.
Jindl 05-05-05, 01:55 PM	Wait a second, I thought we were only allowed to bring one bought ally. Caterane has mentioned bringing in 10 heavy warhorses, and Cellardwellar's proposal gives results if you bring in two heavy warhorses, even if it is illegal. I am very very confused right now. We did away with the 1 ally limit when we switched over to LG.
Caterane 05-05-05, 02:01 PM	Ditto. Currently you can bring in any number of allies up to your ECL-2, or your CR-5 (which will be changed to -4 soon). Here's CD's fully baked proposal (you should really find a better name, CD). There are 4 problems with the system that I want to address. 1) If you need to use an ally, there is no point in using less than the maximum. 2) Horses provide an significant advantage for minimal cost at lower levels. 3) There is no option to "swap out" a horse for a more appropriate ally for the character. 4) There are no rules for using a combination of ECL'd and CR'd allies. Allow me to present the cellar dweller's fully baked ally proposal. The coefficient of allies is calculated according to the following CA = coeefficient of allies AELi = ECL of the i'th ally (0 if LA is '-') ACRi = CR of the i'th ally (0 if LA is not '-') CA = sum(AELi+ACRi) For example Johnny Uncarismatic is an 8th level human cleric. He has the leadership feat, but only has leadership score of 4. If he brought in his cohort (ECL 4) rode a light warhorse (CR1) and had raised an Ogre Skeleton (CR2) and a wolf skeleton (CR1). He would have a ca=sum(4+1+2+1)=8 Maximum CA The maximum ca a gladiator may bring into each fight is equal to his ECL and no individual ally may have an ael>ECL-2 or an acr>max(ecl-4,2) a CR greater than the gladiators ECL-4. Cost of allies Using allies in a fight reduces the rewards you recieve. You recieve CA/ECL*25% less xp and gc for winning a fight. Similarly you receive opponents oppnents CA/ECL*25% more xp and gc for defeating a gladiator that uses allies. Class allies (eg paladin's warhorse, wizards familiar) and not counted in any calculations. This is the basic proposal. I have suggested to change it to acr>max(ecl-4,1)
spasheridan 05-05-05, 02:06 PM	Maximum CA The maximum ca a gladiator may bring into each fight is equal to his ECL and no individual ally may have an ael>ECL-2 or an acl>max(ecl-4,2) a CR greater than the gladiators ECL-4. Cost of allies Using allies in a fight reduces the rewards you recieve. You recieve CA/ECL*25% less xp and gc for winning a fight. Similarly you receive opponents oppnents CA/ECL*25% more xp and gc for defeating a gladiator that uses allies. Class allies (eg paladin's warhorse, wizards familiar) and not counted in any calculations.Thralls break this rule. Are they a class feature or an ally? You pay a heavy cost for a THrall (a whole level of spellcasting ability) and it is only slightly better than a leadership granted cohort. In fact, beyond the ECL-1 vs ECL-2, since the Nimbus raises all of your cohorts there is no differance between them. This should be included in balance discussions.
Jindl 05-05-05, 02:32 PM	This is the basic proposal. I have suggested to change it to acr>max(ecl-4,1) Do I understand it correctly that your change would mean no heavy warhorses (or other CR2 allies) until ECL6? I think that's a bit excessive. Although I do think they should be limited to ECL4+ gladiators. Examples Level 3 gladiator brings in ...a light warhorse (CA=1) : (1/3*.25) 8.33% xp and gold penalty ...a heavy warhorse (CA=2) : (2/3*.25) 16.67% gp and xp penalty. ...a heavy warhorse and a trained wolf (CA=3) : (3/3*.25) 25% xp and gold penalty. ...2 heavy warhorses (CA=4) : not permitted (CA>ECL) ...a giant owl (CA=3) : not permitted (eal>ECL-2) From these examples, I think the warhorses are still much too cheap at ECL3. We know from experience how powerful an ally a heavy warhorse is at that level. To bring the prices more in line, I would suggest using (CA+1)/ECL*25% more xp and gold. That would make the light warhorse cost 16.67%, the heavy warhorse cost 25%, and the heavy warhorse + a trained wolf cost 33.33%. Thralls break this rule. Are they a class feature or an ally? You pay a heavy cost for a THrall (a whole level of spellcasting ability) and it is only slightly better than a leadership granted cohort. In fact, beyond the ECL-1 vs ECL-2, since the Nimbus raises all of your cohorts there is no differance between them. This should be included in balance discussions. I'm not 100% sure when I say this, but I think maybe we should consider thralls and planar cohorts as Class Feature Allies. Both thaumaturge and thrallherd classes give up something significant to gain these class features (loss of a manifester level, worse HD and BAB, not so great feats/skills/powers needed to qualify, etc.) and lest we forget the fact that they cannot gain regular cohorts through the leadership feat. -Jindl
Cerebus13 05-05-05, 05:16 PM	Odd rules question... What is the minimum Int you must have to speak/understand a language? I think it is 3 because you are considered to have humanlike intelligence then...but I dunno for sure. In hand with this...if you apply a template to a base creature that has a very low Int (like an animal with 1 or 2) and it raises their Int up to a point that they gain humanlike intelligence (3) do they get a language? Can you pick what language this is, or is it assumed to be Common?
Arstimis 05-05-05, 05:45 PM	I could go on and try to explain where I am actually coming from, but it seems like I either cant explain it well enough, or you guys dont understand it. Sorry for causing all this argueing, as I said before, I will be taking a break for a little bit.
Pitlords 05-06-05, 04:21 AM	@all: New option out! In case of magical ammunition, you can now buy stacks of 5 and 10 for 1°, or any number for 2°. The part below has been added to the Blackmarket. You may pay 1° to get the right to buy magical projectile ammunition in stacks of 5 or 10 (both stacks have the same credit cost). This applies to arrows, bolts, and bullets. You may pay 2° to buy any number of ammunition. The ammunition cost applies normally. Normally, you can only buy stacks of 50. Note that there are special arrows (slaying, sleep) who do not follow this rule. Example: 10x +2 arrows of human bane, 5x +1 seeking bolt, 27x +3 coldiron frost bullet
KerlanRayne 05-06-05, 04:44 AM	What is the minimum Int you must have to speak/understand a language? I think it is 3 because you are considered to have humanlike intelligence then...but I dunno for sure. In hand with this...if you apply a template to a base creature that has a very low Int (like an animal with 1 or 2) and it raises their Int up to a point that they gain humanlike intelligence (3) do they get a language? Can you pick what language this is, or is it assumed to be Common? Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher understands at least one language (Common, unless noted otherwise).Does that help? KerlanRayne PS - What is the hardness and HP of a Whip? What about a Whip Feather Token that has been activated? What would it's AC be?
Cerebus13 05-06-05, 08:12 AM	PS - What is the hardness and HP of a Whip? What about a Whip Feather Token that has been activated? What would it's AC be?I can take a stab at this one.... The SRD lists leather as having 2 hardness and 5 hp/inch of thickness. So basically a normal whip would match this pretty closely. Feather token whips gain a +1 enhancement bonus, so they would have an extra 2 hardness and 10 hitpoints. Grand total of: 4 hardness and 15 hps. This is of course all calculations done from the Substance Hardness and Hit Point table...because I can't find any rules that would apply to whips anywhere else.
spasheridan 05-06-05, 11:28 AM	This is of course all calculations done from the Substance Hardness and Hit Point table...because I can't find any rules that would apply to whips anywhere else. Light hafted weapon 5 2 Light blade 10 2 Light metal-hafted weapon 10 10 Light hafted weapon is probably the appropriate choice, and it's about the same as yours.
Pitlords 05-06-05, 12:45 PM	I have added some details to the FAQ about Quests. Here they are: Addition to FAQ: Quests (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5660571) Types of Short Quests: There are two different ways to run a Short Quest. The easier way is to run it like an arena fight. Request tactics normally, and post it in the Fights thread. Since this is much easier than an arena fight you are encouraged to write a little story around the fight. This is worth 1°. The other possibility is to open a seperate thread and run it similar to a Long Quest, although not as detailed. The player may make decisions on the spot and roleplaying will surely benefit from this type of Quest. This is worth 2°. Talk to the player which type he would prefer. Changes in bold and red to the FAQ: About Questlording (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5674154) Long Quest: You gain 2 credits a week for running a quest, twice as much as an arena fight. You are encouraged to complete one encounter a week so that the quest is finished after 3 weeks. For every additional week you need you lose 1 credit. These are the standard rewards for a 1 player Long Quest. If you run a multiplayer quest, you get 1 extra credit for each additional player in your quest per week. These changes are to encourage more Questlording. @Jindl: I will give you the rewards retroactively.
Megrim_Lord 05-06-05, 01:19 PM	Y'know, I've been thinking, there should be some sort of benefit for us non credit earners who fight credit earners, because the level of power seems somewhat disproportional between the two. I've noticed that the majority of really successful gladiators have expended a good amount of credits on themselves. for example Most of Cats characters are very good, not just because they are well designed (and they are), but often because they have a credit advantage over other characters. My opinion is that if a character (A) fights another character (B) with X more credits expended on him than character A, character A should get a 10% experience boost for every X more credits Character B has expended than character A, or character A's creator gets a bonus credit for every X more credits Character B has expended than character A (for example if if character B has used 4 credits in creation, and 2 on quipment, and X = 3, then character A's creator would get 2 extra credits for fighting Character B, or that character gets a 20% experience boost for that fight). Maybe my analysis is off base, but something like that seems reasonable to me, what does everyone else think?
Pitlords 05-06-05, 01:25 PM	What credit advantage do you mean? Of all my characters I have only a headband and amulett+1 for 5° each. No ressources from the blackmarket. It is a bonus for those who help to keep the CoCo running. We cannot have enough pitlords. Instead I want to invite you to try to pitlord a match. You'll see you will learn a lot and a ECL 3 match is not very time consuming.
spasheridan 05-06-05, 01:35 PM	The credit perks are generally small. Right now most people use credits to do things like play multiple gladiators, create new high level gladiators, and go on quests. Jindl seems to be interested in getting 1 shot items here or there, but high powered 1-shot items are available under core rules so... Specificly, what items do you see out there that are unfair?
Megrim_Lord 05-06-05, 02:21 PM	The credit perks are generally small. Right now most people use credits to do things like play multiple gladiators, create new high level gladiators, and go on quests. Jindl seems to be interested in getting 1 shot items here or there, but high powered 1-shot items are available under core rules so... Specificly, what items do you see out there that are unfair? like I said, maybe my analysis is off base, in fact I'm probably looking too much at the win columns and not enough at the equipment and characters themselves. It may be the characters themselves more than items. Merman has a near untouchable AC and more attacks than any normal gladiator. Half dragon gladiators (I think Ceres is one) have their breath weapons, nasty ability bonuses, and another big boost to AC, and I'm not even going to touch the pixy's greater invisibility thing. It just seems that up against these a non credit earning gladiator has a good deal less chance of succeeding. I mean really, what defense would a straight melee non credit build have against something with Greater Invisibility as a constant effect? and I've seen at least one occasion where breath weapons are potentially one shot wins, and you can't very well win a fight if you can't breach your opponent's defenses. Again, maybe I'm just overthinking this. PS - Cat if you really want me to I can give it a shot, but no guarantees
Jindl 05-06-05, 02:51 PM	@Megrim - Check out Rhoar, who is quite possibly the most successful noncaster melee build the CoCo ever saw. He is one of only a handful to go 8-0, and did it without casting a single spell. And unlike some of the other very successful non-casters, he lacks even one feat related to archery and he doesn't use a mount. Other good noncaster (mostly) melee builds to look at are: Kage Nightwind, Aemon, SPIKE!, Brackin Bonesnapper, and Angosh. Some of them have a couple of caster levels, but they are all predominately non-casters. As for non-caster ranged builds, Oetzi (Hatzinger) is probably the best. I think Kaigan is modeling Rayos after him, and Rayos has already proven himself a powerhouse (hey, he beat the Elder...) I guess what I'm saying is that its probably harder to make a powerful noncaster build, but people have been doing it since this whole Arena thing started, back to the days of Alathar Vierce. -Jindl
Megrim_Lord 05-06-05, 03:03 PM	Rhoar is a very good gladiator, but by today's arena standards he wouldn't be a non credit build from what I see, plus some of his items are 3.0 only, a big switch from now... come to think of it, I may just be venting subconsciously with this whole thing because I think after his fight Trokk will be wearing his own ass for a hat because complaining is good for reassurance. or maybe I'm just paranoid. Yeah, yeah, that's probably it. I'm paranoid.
Jindl 05-06-05, 03:20 PM	Rhoar is a very good gladiator, but by today's arena standards he wouldn't be a non credit build from what I see, plus some of his items are 3.0 only, a big switch from now... Rhoar is fully 3.5. The only credit cost would be for the permanent enlarge person and the short quest to gain the megaraptor ally. The permanent enlarge could easily be replaced with potions: enlarge person, and the megaraptor ally isn't a necessity (it was just kinda cool). You could easily make these small changes to make his credit cost = 0. I understand your concern about this week's fight. From what I have seen, Trokk is a pretty good gladiator. I'm sure he'll do fine in the long run. -Jindl
Salzorin 05-06-05, 03:28 PM	Just curious on credit costs... looking at the blackmarket prices for custom items... is it safe to say that a +skill item costs 10 credits if it isn't an item specifically laid out in the books? So, getting a +5 to a skill that's not a normal item would cost 10 credits and 2500gp? I have a new build I'm planning that's very reliant on a skill and needs as many extra bonuses he can get... (guess I'm gonna have to try my hand at running some fights soon so I can make the credits necessary...)
Pitlords 05-06-05, 04:51 PM	@Megrim Lord: Yes please give it a try. Just send me your email address and tell me how many fights you want to moderate each week (you can change that anytime). Short Quests do not cost credits. And the creatures you have mentioned have a level adjustment of +3 (halfdragon), +4 (pixie), or +5 (ghost). They have very few hitpoints and other drawbacks. Paying credits doesn't give you access to more powerful creatures or items - they are more or less balanced by WotC - but they give you more options to choose from. But now that you will join the ranks of the pitlords, you can find out for yourself :) Yep, and now I forgot what I wanted to say in the first place :/
Arstimis 05-06-05, 05:12 PM	Sorry about how i sorta went off yesterday..just been very frustrating week. and busy, that is why i am not active this week, but next week I'll be back, and also I will start pitlording 1 fight a week again Also, I have noticed En'Sidious Nyte to be a pretty bad character in the arena as opposed to his true potential. For that reason I am asking of there is anyone that would be willing to be a questlord for Nyte's attempt at an Assassination in Gladius. RP details would be worked out after talking with the new power of gladius (EHTC)
King Uther 05-06-05, 05:24 PM	I'm going to start Questlording next week and would love to do that for you. Also, Everyone who joins the (yet unnamed evil guild hidden in the E.H.T.C.) will have a link to their character as well as a little info, as well as links to any important quests or deeds accomplished.
Pitlords 05-06-05, 05:32 PM	Ok, so we found a couple :) Uther, you can recruit two other members for your quest. @all: you heard it. Evil guys wanted.
Arstimis 05-06-05, 05:39 PM	Cool, thanks Uther, oh..and Nyte works alone, so hopefully what Cat...er.. Pitlord said didnt mean i'd be in a group for the quest But if that is the case....diversions always help :devil:
spasheridan 05-07-05, 02:13 AM	Hear Ye Hear Ye- So, I am in the process of creating / statting out Legions 1st thrall. So far, I know the following: 1) He's a 25 pt character 2) He's ECL 5 and can be any race that fits ECL 5 3) I need to go on a quest of some kind (ecl 5 quest, long or short I'm not sure) for him to join me. The questions I still have, and I need to have answers to, are: 1) When my ECL 5 thrall joins me, is he naked or does he have appropriate ECL 5 NPC gear 2) Will I need to go on a long or short quest to get him? 3) Will using a thrall cost Legion money / xp in fights Legion was an expensive PC to run with the old rules on powerstones. Now he's a bit cheaper, but I need to keep an eye on the cash in / out to keep everything working proper. For a naked Thrall I would be more interested in say a monster race with good natural gear or a spell caster, but a thrall that comes with a few Kgp worth of gear might be better off as a straight tank. I'll need to run this through my min/max.. I mean, RP perspective, before I get a finished answer. I'm sure Sokai is curious as well... Thanks!
Kaigan 05-07-05, 03:01 AM	Arti, if you want I can pitlord your assassination "attempt" :devil: Do you want a long or short quest?
Sindorin 05-07-05, 03:23 AM	Sindorin's Silly Questions: Okay, here's one that has to do with CoCo rules about regenerating items. Say a wizard is fighting a wizard. Both of the wizards have a number of scrolls on them. Wizard A casts Hold Person on Wizard B. Wizard B fails his save and is now held. Wizard A walks up to Wizard B and begins rummaging through Wizard B's assortment of scrolls. Picking out one that he likes, he reads from it, makes gestures, and the scroll disappears as the spell from it is cast as a Coup de Grace against the helpless Wizard B, who failed his save once again. My question is this: Is this "lifted" scroll that Wizard A snatched and used considered "Used" and does it become a past expenditure, or is it treated as a sundered weapon would be, and repaired after the fight? No, this doesn't have anything to do with the wizard's duel between Va'ria and Uhmentarymster... not at all... :D
KerlanRayne 05-07-05, 04:33 AM	Light hafted weapon is probably the appropriate choice, and it's about the same as yours.Hafted weapon would mean it has a wooden handle, which I don't think a whip does, so this might not work. The SRD lists leather as having 2 hardness and 5 hp/inch of thickness. So basically a normal whip would match this pretty closely. Feather token whips gain a +1 enhancement bonus, so they would have an extra 2 hardness and 10 hitpoints. Grand total of: 4 hardness and 15 hps.This sounds pretty good but don't forget that the feather token is a HUGE whip. This would take it up to 4 Hardness and 25 HP. (I Think) Does this sound OK to everyone? What would it's AC be? While grappling? KerlanRayne
Pitlords 05-07-05, 05:28 AM	@Spash: 1) He will have an appropriate free weightless outfit so he isn't naked. Other than that, no. 2) Long Quest if you want to obtain him now. A Short Quest has a cap for EL (your ECL-2) 3) Atm, yes @Sindorin: Like sunder. Only what you yourself use is considered used up. @Kerlan: A normal whip doesn't have 1 inch width, does it?
Caterane 05-07-05, 06:38 AM	I have opened a new discussion about the modification of the Standard Arena Map in the new Arena Reshape (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6118951#post6118951) thread.
TaggIIV 05-07-05, 10:22 AM	When a druid wildshapes does he use the new form's hit dice or his own (with the new form's Con modifier)?
Arstimis 05-07-05, 10:55 AM	Arti, if you want I can pitlord your assassination "attempt" :devil: Do you want a long or short quest? That would be cool Alex, and I'll do a short one for now..maybe a long one the next time. But im not sure if Uther was gonna be the questlord or not, Im sure we'll figure this out
Iced 05-07-05, 12:38 PM	I can DM this next week if anyone wants to go questing.
xanadu 05-07-05, 02:20 PM	When a druid wildshapes does he use the new form's hit dice or his own (with the new form's Con modifier)? New form.
Snommelp 05-07-05, 10:35 PM	I just fixed Quixote's sheet to reflect the change in this week's fight. Because he lost, he's exactly 100 XP short of level 4. :ahem: Anyone have a spare 100 XP?
King Uther 05-07-05, 10:55 PM	I got some if you want.
Jindl 05-07-05, 11:28 PM	New form. Negative. The druid retains his own hit dice while in wild shape.
Snommelp 05-07-05, 11:43 PM	I think that perhaps this week I would like to have the Don take on a short quest. Maybe tackle a monster rampaging about outside of Gladius. On that note, what's the CR for a windmill?
xanadu 05-08-05, 12:24 AM	Negative. The druid retains his own hit dice while in wild shape. I thought he asked whether or not a druid used his new form's con modifer as opposed to his original. 5 HD druid with 10 con and 26 HPs wildshapes into wolverine. Druid is still consider 5 HD creature now with 19 con and 46 (26 orginal + 20 new con modfier) HPs, right? At least that's the impression I get from the Rules of the Game and the Sage rulings in the past.
Snommelp 05-08-05, 12:43 AM	Gnome monk didn't work so well... but what about a hobgoblin monk? We shall see...
Pitlords 05-08-05, 05:04 AM	I think that perhaps this week I would like to have the Don take on a short quest. Maybe tackle a monster rampaging about outside of Gladius. On that note, what's the CR for a windmill? Zero. Unless it's an Animated Object (collosal, CR 10). Why not wait some time and make this your character goal? To defeat a living windmill.
Jindl 05-08-05, 11:23 AM	I thought he asked whether or not a druid used his new form's con modifer as opposed to his original. 5 HD druid with 10 con and 26 HPs wildshapes into wolverine. Druid is still consider 5 HD creature now with 19 con and 46 (26 orginal + 20 new con modfier) HPs, right? At least that's the impression I get from the Rules of the Game and the Sage rulings in the past. You are correct. However, his question was whether the druid adopted the new forms hit dice (and Con modifier). -Jindl
Snommelp 05-08-05, 02:01 PM	Zero. Unless it's an Animated Object (collosal, CR 10). Why not wait some time and make this your character goal? To defeat a living windmill. Excellent... a living windmill vs. the greatest knight-errant Spain has ever known! And at that point I'll hopefully have Sancho around... or maybe that can be the quest where Quixote finds Sancho again. And speaking of quests, anybody who is looking for a companion to go questing can always ask Don Quixote or Cedric. [/advertisement]
Zerone 05-08-05, 02:35 PM	Questions... :D 1. Is there a way to get an Inherent bonus of +5 to a stat besides Tomes and Maunals? Jindle stated that that was the max and it is found in the DMG. 2. Crafting a Cloak of Protection +1 costs 500 gp & 0 xp, correct? 3. Crafting a Headband of Intellect +1 costs 500 gp, 0 xp, & 5°, correct? Thanks, *•. Z
TaggIIV 05-08-05, 02:46 PM	Thanks, guys. Gnome monk didn't work so well... but what about a hobgoblin monk? We shall see... Cool idea! However, keep in mind hobgoblins have racial modifiers of +2 Dex (as opposed to +2 Str) and +2 Con. @Zerone: I don't believe that creating an inherent ability bonus item is possible within the core rules, even by paying credits. In the DMG table for creating magic items, the only bonuses that can be made obscure are saves and AC (and even those only mention luck, insight, sacred, and profane). And, you pay 1/25 of the market price in xp when crafting anything magical. So both the cloak of resistance +1 and headband of intellect +1 would cost 40xp apiece.
Kingside_Bishop 05-08-05, 02:50 PM	Just wanted to let everyone know that the next Character Optimization Contest has begun on the CO board. This month's theme is "War" and the object of the constest is to create the best battlefield commander. Here's the link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=426257), if anyone's interested: the prize is a custom avatar.
Jindl 05-08-05, 02:54 PM	Questions... :D 1. Is there a way to get an Inherent bonus of +5 to a stat besides Tomes and Maunals? Jindle stated that that was the max and it is found in the DMG. 2. Crafting a Cloak of Protection +1 costs 500 gp & 0 xp, correct? 3. Crafting a Headband of Intellect +1 costs 500 gp, 0 xp, & 5°, correct? Thanks, *•. Z 1. Inherent bonuses only come from wish/miracle spells. The tomes/manuals are effectively "wish/miracle" potions. I don't think you can make another kind of magic item that only gives inherent bonuses when in use. 2. Nope. It costs 500 gp + 40 xp. 3. 500 gp + 40 xp + 5°.
Zerone 05-08-05, 03:14 PM	Thanks TaggIIV and Jindl for the responses... however, where in the PHB/DMG/SRD does it state the 1/25 xp cost? I cannot find it anywhere. *•. Z
Snommelp 05-08-05, 03:24 PM	Cool idea! However, keep in mind hobgoblins have racial modifiers of +2 Dex (as opposed to +2 Str) and +2 Con. Heh... woops. Once again blaming finals. Thanks for catching that before pairings.
TaggIIV 05-08-05, 04:17 PM	Thanks TaggIIV and Jindl for the responses... however, where in the PHB/DMG/SRD does it state the 1/25 xp cost? I cannot find it anywhere. *•. Z It says this in the item creation feat descriptions. For example, this is an excerpt from Craft Wondrous Item. You can create any wondrous item whose prerequisites you meet. Enchanting a wondrous item takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its price. To enchant a wondrous item, you must spend 1/25 of the item’s price in XP and use up raw materials costing half of this price.
Zerone 05-08-05, 04:42 PM	Thanks, I don't know how I missed it, but I did... ;) I just looked it up again (PHB) and there it was...? I was looking in the DMG under Creating Magical Items (around 287-288) and there was no mention of it there that I noticed... Thanks!
Pitlords 05-08-05, 07:35 PM	@All: Although LivingGladius runs very well, it has been some time since we last made progress. That's because I have almost no time other than run the board and play my guys (I even stopped to run fights except for an emergency <one>) but it is time to implement one of the many many things that should make Living Gladius so special. First of all, I have finished the last section of the FAQ: About Pitlording (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5674129). I still have to work over it again, especially the last part but it will do for now. The Arena Reshape thing, the Random Starting positions, and soon the random maps, will be some additions that we will see in the near future but I have also added something I wanted to finish for some time: the spiced up arena fights. Instead of one type of arena fight, we will hopefully see more than that. Below are the seven different types that you can do. Please note that half of them may be picked by the GM randomly so you need not necessarily end up against one gladiator (you can stress "one" or "gladiator" ;) ). Anyway, I hope we find a good solution for the Standard Map soon. What kinds of arena fights are there? There are indeed different kinds of arena fights which will be described below. The Standard Arena Fight: Most arena fights will fall into this category. You are paired against another gladiator from your level and you will fight on one of the arena maps (see above for details on different arenas) and you are assigned a Pitlord (a fight moderator). Study your opponoment's character, devise a tactic against him, and send it to your Pitlord. Then wait until the fight is up on the Fights thread. Seperate Thread Arena Fight: After you are paired against an opponoment, your Pitlord opens a new thread, posts your character sheet and that of your opponoment into it along with a short introduction and the arena map where the fight takes place in. You then take turns running the fight: you post your actions for the round, then the other player, and the Pitlord resolves the round and posts what happens. This type of arena fight is up for the Pitlord and the Players to decide and may be combined with any of the other types below. Inter-League Fight: This kind of fight works similar to the Standard Arena Fight but you are not limited to be paired with gladiators from your league. This might be good if you want to fight lower level gladiators to increase your chances to win, or fight higher gladiators if you want to earn more xp and gold, or you might have a lot of active characters and risk to sit out with this character. You have to write the leagues you're open to into the headline of your character sheet (behind the "Ready for..."; like "League 5-7"). Without that, you will never get paired against a higher level gladiator although you might get paired against a lower-level gladiator if that one requested a fight from your league. Team Fights: These work similar to the Standard Arena Fight but include more than 2 gladiators up to a maximum of 8 gladiators. This kind of fight may be requested (by writing it into the headline) or randomly decided by the GM who rolls the pairings. In the former case, the gladiators may be of any level and any combination with a maximum difference in ECL of +2 between the gladiators, and the players may decide who is in which team. In case the GM picks the team fight randomly, he also determines the teams. All gladiators must come from the same league but other than that, there is no guarantee that you won't end up in a team fight. All vs All Fights: These work similar to Team Fights with the difference that there are no teams but everyone fights everyone. The maximum number of gladiators is 4 and there will be only one winner. This kind of fight may be requested by the players with a maximum difference in ECL of +2, or may be randomly picked by the GM with no difference in ECL. Monster Fights: This fight works similar to the Standard Arena Fight but you will fight a monster from the Monster Manual (or Psionic SRD). You may not request a Monster Fight but it will always be picked by the GM. Instead of assigning a monster right away, the GM may also write "random monster" which leaves the choice to the assigned Pitlord. The monster must never have a higher CR than the gladiator. Mercenary Fights: This fight works similar to a Monster Fight but you will fight a mercenary from the Mercenaries Guild. You may not request a mercenary but it will always be picked by the GM. Instead of assigning a mercenary right away, the GM may also write "random mercenary" which leaves the choice to the assigned Pitlord. The mercenary must never have a higher CR than the gladiator. PS: Mercenaries are not available atm so ignore that for now.
Pitlords 05-08-05, 08:00 PM	Rakkar the Reckless is a commoner. Shouldn't he have a lower CR? Can someone check this please as it will have an impact on his xp and gp (he would gain more per fight). Thanks.
TaggIIV 05-08-05, 08:11 PM	Rakkar the Reckless is a commoner. Shouldn't he have a lower CR? Can someone check this please as it will have an impact on his xp and gp (he would gain more per fight). Thanks. I didn't think we calculated CR into the equation - just ECL? If we counted CR we would need to pay closer attention to things like on templates that say CR as base creature +/- etc. Half dragons, for example, have LA +3 but CR +2 - and would thus have the same bonus as Rakkar on gp/xp for fighting in the same ECL league. Same as true for many of the nonstandard races and templates which have adjusted CR that does not match LA.
Jindl 05-08-05, 09:17 PM	XP/GP awarded is determined by the league(s) you and your opponent fight in, not your CR or your opponent's CR. -Jindl
xanadu 05-08-05, 11:08 PM	Rakkar the Reckless is a commoner. Shouldn't he have a lower CR? Can someone check this please as it will have an impact on his xp and gp (he would gain more per fight). Thanks. Yes :) But that's just my opinion when looking over my opponent's character sheets.
Zerone 05-08-05, 11:17 PM	What does the following mean? [Power: 1000 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] Just the 'Power' part. Thanks *•. Z
Snommelp 05-09-05, 12:31 AM	What does the following mean? [Power: 1000 (1000); 0 won, 0 lost] Just the 'Power' part. Thanks *•. Z Power is determined by your number of wins/losses and by the power level of the opponents that you win/lose against. Basically, it's supposed to represent how good your character is. I think the reasoning behind it was for challenges or something...
Zerone 05-09-05, 12:47 AM	Hmmm... thanks. Anyone know what happens to xp and gp gains when you have a light warhorse? a heavy warhorse? a familiar? etc...? Any information would be great. :) *•. Z
Snommelp 05-09-05, 12:52 AM	Hmmm... thanks. Anyone know what happens to xp and gp gains when you have a light warhorse? a heavy warhorse? a familiar? etc...? Any information would be great. :) *•. Z At the moment, it works the same for every ally. If you bring an ally, you earn 3/4 of the gp and xp you normally would recieve. If your opponent brings an ally, you gain 4/3 of the expected gp and xp. If both gladiators bring allies, it evens out (3/4 x 4/3 = 1) Familiars, however, are not considered "allies," but are rather class features. The same is true for a paladin's special mount or a druid's or ranger's animal companion.
King Uther 05-09-05, 01:12 AM	I am going to be a Questlord starting next week. I believe my first week's quest is taken(by Arstimis), but would like to line up quests for the following weeks. In order to help make this site more of a living campaign with a constant flowing story, I only want to do quests that further that story, whether it be your character's or the whole campaign's. No treasure grabbing, non-story driven type. Please PM me if interested.
Pitlords 05-09-05, 07:32 PM	@all: I've added a small section to the FAQ which deals with retired characters. If you retire a character, please DO NOT delete the character. If you want to make a new character, use a new sheet. Thanks. I want to retire my character. What can I do? Sometimes, characters won't work as good as you might have initially thought, and it is of course absolutely within your right to retire this character (and build a new one?). Just write a PM to the Pitlords GM Avatar and tell him that you want to retire the character. The only thing we are asking you is that you do not delete the character. Leave him as he is. Although the character might not be on the Roster anymore, we still have backups of all character links but they only work if there is still a character in there. If your character was at least in the level 7 League, he has earned a place of honor on the Gladius Graveyard, findable in the Characters thread.
Zerone 05-09-05, 10:12 PM	Say, since some new characters are reaching the levels of some old characters, what is needed for an old character to become active? *•. Z
Salrantol 05-10-05, 12:40 AM	Rakkar the Reckless is a commoner. Shouldn't he have a lower CR? Can someone check this please as it will have an impact on his xp and gp (he would gain more per fight). Thanks. He would have a lower CR, but since XP gains are determined by your ECL, that would be irrelevant. However, his opponents' XP/GP gains would be affected, because they are fighting a CR2 opponent (but since an opponent of CR1-3 all has the same XP reward, it's irrelevant until he hits ECL4).
Cerebus13 05-10-05, 08:40 AM	@All What Craft skill is required to make ammunition for the various ranged weapons such as crossbows and regular bows? Regular bows fall under Craft (Bowmaking) whereas crossbows fall into Craft (Weaponsmithing)...so I'm not really sure.
Sindorin 05-10-05, 10:30 AM	QL Iced: Start: 11.May Sokai is looking for a thrall to dominate. Questlog for <none yet> Sokai is not a Thrallherd... he has the Leadership feat.
Jindl 05-10-05, 11:01 AM	@All What Craft skill is required to make ammunition for the various ranged weapons such as crossbows and regular bows? Regular bows fall under Craft (Bowmaking) whereas crossbows fall into Craft (Weaponsmithing)...so I'm not really sure. I think ammunition is made with the same Craft skill used to create the weapon. I'd use the same DC as the base weapon (not counting any mighty quality, and only counting masterwork/special materials if the ammunition has the same quality/material). -Jindl
Jindl 05-10-05, 11:28 AM	@Cat - I like the new types of fights that are opening up. But I have some questions: Seperate Thread Arena Fight: After you are paired against an opponoment, your Pitlord opens a new thread, posts your character sheet and that of your opponoment into it along with a short introduction and the arena map where the fight takes place in. You then take turns running the fight: you post your actions for the round, then the other player, and the Pitlord resolves the round and posts what happens. This type of arena fight is up for the Pitlord and the Players to decide and may be combined with any of the other types below. Does this type of fight grant an extra credit to the pitlord, in a similar fashion to how a seperate thread miniquest does? Inter-League Fight: This kind of fight works similar to the Standard Arena Fight but you are not limited to be paired with gladiators from your league. This might be good if you want to fight lower level gladiators to increase your chances to win, or fight higher gladiators if you want to earn more xp and gold, or you might have a lot of active characters and risk to sit out with this character. You have to write the leagues you're open to into the headline of your character sheet (behind the "Ready for..."; like "League 5-7"). Without that, you will never get paired against a higher level gladiator although you might get paired against a lower-level gladiator if that one requested a fight from your league. Can you request not to be paired against a lower level gladiator (perhaps you need a certain amount of xp to level, and you won't gain it if you face a lower level gladiator)? Should we make that the default setting? Team Fights: These work similar to the Standard Arena Fight but include more than 2 gladiators up to a maximum of 8 gladiators. This kind of fight may be requested (by writing it into the headline) or randomly decided by the GM who rolls the pairings. In the former case, the gladiators may be of any level and any combination with a maximum difference in ECL of +2 between the gladiators, and the players may decide who is in which team. In case the GM picks the team fight randomly, he also determines the teams. All gladiators must come from the same league but other than that, there is no guarantee that you won't end up in a team fight. I hope the GM will be picking teams based upon storylines and RP :) Also, I think we need to establish the changes to the arena map (at least incorporate the "starting box" idea) before we open this type of fight so that the teams can determine their starting positions. I think we also need to figure out how XP/GP will be rewarded to both sides. All vs All Fights: These work similar to Team Fights with the difference that there are no teams but everyone fights everyone. The maximum number of gladiators is 4 and there will be only one winner. This kind of fight may be requested by the players with a maximum difference in ECL of +2, or may be randomly picked by the GM with no difference in ECL. We can't open this type of fight until we have more than 2 possible starting locations. Using the "starting box" idea, we could simply make 4 boxes, one down each axis (with the arena symmetrically shaped, this should be simple enough). And we also have to figure out how XP/GP will be awarded to the participants. Monster Fights: This fight works similar to the Standard Arena Fight but you will fight a monster from the Monster Manual (or Psionic SRD). You may not request a Monster Fight but it will always be picked by the GM. Instead of assigning a monster right away, the GM may also write "random monster" which leaves the choice to the assigned Pitlord. The monster must never have a higher CR than the gladiator. I don't like the idea of someone choosing the monster to be fought. Perhaps we should just make an encounter table to randomly determine the monster in a case like this? If a player wants to face a certain monster (for RP or ally purposes) they can still do a miniquest. Also, we will have to determine standardized equipment for those monsters capable of having equipment (any of the humanoids and giants; most of the monstrous humanoids, fey and outsiders; several aberrations; and a smattering of creatures from other types - like treants for example). This equipment should be listed as part of the encounter table (or linked to the encounter table). Having the pitlord/GM determine both the monster and its equipment is simply too much work and risks too much customization to face the specific pc that it is paired against. I think standard equipment combined with a random encounter table could make this a viable option. Mercenary Fights: This fight works similar to a Monster Fight but you will fight a mercenary from the Mercenaries Guild. You may not request a mercenary but it will always be picked by the GM. Instead of assigning a mercenary right away, the GM may also write "random mercenary" which leaves the choice to the assigned Pitlord. The mercenary must never have a higher CR than the gladiator. My comments about monster fights apply double to mercenary fights, as mercenary's are exponentially more customizable in build and equipment than a monster. -Jindl
Zerone 05-10-05, 02:38 PM	Say, since some new characters are reaching the levels of some old characters, what is needed for an old character to become active? This was on the last page... Thanks *•. Z
Zerone 05-10-05, 04:10 PM	Also, some one else mentioned this and it made me think; why are Animals (horses, dogs, etc.) considered as Cohorts (for xp/gp gains) and not Equipment? Why are Class Specific mounts/animals not considered Cohorts? *•. Z
cellardweller 05-10-05, 07:49 PM	Yo Z. Copy the character from the old gladiators thread to the new. Recalculate your gold and net worth and you are good to go. Unlike creating a fresh character at ECL>3 it doesn't cost any credits to do so. Dogs/Horses/Griffons/etc all add to the CR of the gladiator, other Swords/scrolls/etc do not. Familiars/druid's companions/etc are already factored into the characters CR. Technically leadership cohorts should also be free, but experience says it is not balanced to do so.
spasheridan 05-10-05, 08:33 PM	Also, some one else mentioned this and it made me think; why are Animals (horses, dogs, etc.) considered as Cohorts (for xp/gp gains) and not Equipment? Animals are much more powerful than a torch or a dagger. Equipment is an inanimate object you wield, an animal is something that jumps up and tries to kill you. The simplest answer to your question is this: Is a gladiator wielding 9 long swords as powerful as a gladiator wielding 9 torches? What about a gladiator wielding 9 lions. Is he as powerful as the 9 torch wielder? The basic differance between an animal and a candle should be apparent. Why are Class Specific mounts/animals not considered Cohorts?Because a class specific ability is a class specific ability. Wizards have d4 HD BECAUSE they get familiars... Paladins have to be LG BECAUSE they get mounts, Druids are overpowered... I mean.. snuggly and warm BECAUSE they get animal companions. In other words, class features are already calculated into your CR/ECL, so the animal companion / familiar / mount are already calculated into your power.
Zyme86 05-10-05, 11:53 PM	Dissapointed by his medocre preformance in the ring, Daka has decided it's for the best that he retire.
Salrantol 05-11-05, 12:14 PM	Is it possible to obtain a masterwork tool for any skill (that doesn't have a specific one listed [i.e. Climb, Use Rope, Craft]) or only for certain skills? For example, can one have a masterwork tool for Concentration or Tumble? Or only if you can conceive of the tool itself, such as a masterwork 10' pole for Balance or a masterwork quill for Forgery?
Pittbull 05-11-05, 12:30 PM	Is it possible to obtain a masterwork tool for any skill (that doesn't have a specific one listed [i.e. Climb, Use Rope, Craft]) or only for certain skills? For example, can one have a masterwork tool for Concentration or Tumble? Or only if you can conceive of the tool itself, such as a masterwork 10' pole for Balance or a masterwork quill for Forgery? No, only for certain skills: ride, handle animal, craft, perform. This is a house-rule.
Jindl 05-11-05, 12:59 PM	No, only for certain skills: ride, handle animal, craft, perform. This is a house-rule. And open locks/disable device (MW Thieves Tools).
Jindl 05-11-05, 01:09 PM	Laph buys two sets of magic arrows for 2°: - 5 Elven-bane arrows for 835gp - 5 Human-bane arrows for 835gp He also bought a powerstone of Steadfest Perception imprinted by a psion for 700gp (ML7), the makes an additional credit. So, he spends alltogether 3°! Okay this is the third time this has come up, and the third time I have voiced a protest against it. A PC shouldn't be able to buy psywar only powers imprinted into powerstones by a psion. It is not reasonable to assume that a psion somewhere took both Imprint Stone and Expanded Knowledge for the exact psywar power you want, plus that your character was able to locate this psion and get him to craft a powerstone for you, plus that he would sell it to you for less than what a psywar would have made it for. There's no way a DM would ever let that fly. That powerstone: steadfast perception should be a minimum of ML10 and cost 1000 gp and 2 credits. But you are buying it for much less and it operates the same. The reduction in powerlevel has virtually no effect on the power's usefulness (since the duration is 10 min/lvl and it doesn't augment). You shouldn't be able to assume that some psion somewhere is spending feats, making, and selling these things for less. Otherwise there is no reason for any powerstone to ever be created by a psywar. I would like to hear some comments about this issue, and would like to see it resolved. -Jindl
Pittbull 05-11-05, 01:21 PM	OK, I thought it was solved by paying one credit for the additional feat (expanded knowledge). If the majority says, this is illegal, I'll pay the 300gp and the credit for the ML10 increase. It has been no problem to find any CL, even CL20, for spellcaster services, so far. Having so unlimited resources in Gladius, I thought it would be no problem to find a psion who is specialized on psychic warrior-powerstones. I know Jindl is strickly against this loopwhole, but what say the others. I have no problem with any outcome, but I'd like to use any advantage. Thanks!
spasheridan 05-11-05, 01:24 PM	I'm torn on this. Consider the following: 1) Psions can only choose a fraction of the powers available, so most psion powers are not known by many psions. 2) Imprint Stone is only taken by a fraction of psions. 3) Of the psions who have imprint stone, only a fraction take any given metapsionic feat (enlarge). 4) What is the level distribution of psions? Only some fraction of psions will have sufficient level to make the stone you want (this could be imposed in #1 unless you're looking for say.. vigor (ML more than 1). SO, (1/x)*(1/y)*(1/z)*(1/level)*(# of psions in Gladius) = # of psions who could make the stone you want. Replacing Z, the metamagic feat requirement, with expanded knowledge seems reasonable. Lowering the level from 10 to 7 increases the availability. SO.. by this math, a powerstone of steadfast perception (ml7) is about as easy to find as a powerstone of enlarged energy ray (ml10). I'm all for nerfing 1 shot items, but the nerf must be across the board. I would say that an appropriate nerf would be basic powers only, no metamagic, metapsionic feats allowed into the powerstone OR SCROLL. Otherwise all powerstones should be (enlarged) (greater psionic endowed) for free.....
Sunwolf 05-11-05, 01:24 PM	Okay this is the third time this has come up, and the third time I have voiced a protest against it. A PC shouldn't be able to buy psywar only powers imprinted into powerstones by a psion. It is not reasonable to assume that a psion somewhere took both Imprint Stone and Expanded Knowledge for the exact psywar power you want, plus that your character was able to locate this psion and get him to craft a powerstone for you, plus that he would sell it to you for less than what a psywar would have made it for. There's no way a DM would ever let that fly. That powerstone: steadfast perception should be a minimum of ML10 and cost 1000 gp and 2 credits. But you are buying it for much less and it operates the same. The reduction in powerlevel has virtually no effect on the power's usefulness (since the duration is 10 min/lvl and it doesn't augment). You shouldn't be able to assume that some psion somewhere is spending feats, making, and selling these things for less. Otherwise there is no reason for any powerstone to ever be created by a psywar. I would like to hear some comments about this issue, and would like to see it resolved. -Jindl I think that I have to side with Jindl on this one. Psywar only powers should be priced as if a Psywar created the item (powerstone, tattoo, etc). We follow this rule for bard only spells, paladin only spells, etc. I also fail to see why any NPC psion who actually took the expanded knowledge feat and imprint stone feat would sell the stone for less than a Psywar would sell it for even if it was cheaper for the psion to create. It would be pure extra profit for the psion to sell at the Psywar based price.
Pittbull 05-11-05, 01:29 PM	It would be pure extra profit for the psion to sell at the Psywar based price. But with more reputation, he'll sell much more powerstones, if he's able to make the lower price. That's economy! ;)
Jindl 05-11-05, 01:30 PM	Otherwise all powerstones should be (enlarged) (greater psionic endowed) for free..... FYI: Greater psionic endowment is not a metamagic feat and cannot be applied to a powerstone. About your other points, IMO, it is much more reasonable to assume that a psion took a metapsionic feat which would apply to all of his powers (even more so for enlarge power considering that the significant majority of psionic powers are close range), than it would be to spend the same feat slot to learn a single other power from another list. Of the two psions in my RL campaign (a Lvl 8 Shaper and a Lvl 8 Telepath), both have enlarge power, both have imprint stone, one has overchannel/talented, and neither have taken expanded knowledge. Of course that is a pretty small sample group :D -Jindl
Pitlords 05-11-05, 01:50 PM	Does this type of fight grant an extra credit to the pitlord, in a similar fashion to how a seperate thread miniquest does? No. In a Miniquest you have to come up with a story, opponoments, which you have to run, you are doing the rolls, and you are encouraged to post a map. A Seperate thread fight needs none of that. The players run their characters on their own, you don't have to create NPCs, nor a story, and you can even give the players a online roller database which both players use so that they don't have to wait for you to show up and roll. And you don't need a map. And another reason is that I don't want it to become the standard method but more like an exception else the board will become flooded. The Pitlord is more like a referee here and the players play the fight. If only Dalton could see that... (but Arti might be more than interested in it). Can you request not to be paired against a lower level gladiator (perhaps you need a certain amount of xp to level, and you won't gain it if you face a lower level gladiator)? Should we make that the default setting? Hm, I think that should be ok in this case. Default is 'possible to face lower levels'. You have to write it into the headline. I'll add that to the FAQ. I hope the GM will be picking teams based upon storylines and RP :) More or less, yes. I cannot follow all storylines but I'll try to make appropriate pairs. There won't be any Paladin+Assassin fights of course if that's what you're worried about. Also, I think we need to establish the changes to the arena map (at least incorporate the "starting box" idea) before we open this type of fight so that the teams can determine their starting positions. The discussion has stalled somewhat and I'll post something there. Boxes are not necessary for the basic function of team fights; for now. I'll add a north and south starting position though. I think we also need to figure out how XP/GP will be rewarded to both sides. CR-based XP of all defeated opponoments, divided by number of allies. Lower level PCs will get more XP out of it in case of a win (a loss has a cap) but since they are pretty close together, that won't catapult them up. We can lower the difference in ECL to +1. Example: A level 3 and 4 gladiator team faces an equal team. Team A wins. A3: Win vs CR 3 (900 XP) and CR 4 (1350 XP) divided by 2 = 1125 XP A4: Win vs CR 3 (800 XP) and CR 4 (1200 XP) divided by 2 = 1000 XP We can't open this type of fight [All vs All] until we have more than 2 possible starting locations. Using the "starting box" idea, we could simply make 4 boxes, one down each axis (with the arena symmetrically shaped, this should be simple enough). Right, 2 additional starting positions. As for the boxes, we should find a conclusion to the discussion first before making possible provisional changes. And we also have to figure out how XP/GP will be awarded to the participants. Well, normally. Let's say 4 ECL 4 characters face each other. A wins. A gets 3600 XP B-D get 400 XP because of the cap. We can also say the winner gets half the normal XP (1800 in our example; still more than 1200). What do you guys think? I don't like the idea of someone choosing the monster to be fought. Perhaps we should just make an encounter table to randomly determine the monster in a case like this? If a player wants to face a certain monster (for RP or ally purposes) they can still do a miniquest. I wrote that you may "not request" a monster fight. This will be assigned by me because else a level 3 gladiator with a fly potion could choose a T-Rex. I'll give the player an appropriate monster (after all, the arena organizers wouldn't send a non-flyer vs Ixenthor unless it is anyhow immune to arrows). Also, we will have to determine standardized equipment for those monsters capable of having equipment (any of the humanoids and giants; most of the monstrous humanoids, fey and outsiders; several aberrations; and a smattering of creatures from other types - like treants for example). This equipment should be listed as part of the encounter table (or linked to the encounter table). I intended to limit it to non-equipment monsters for now. Over time, we can create monster kennels where we will post reaccuring monsters with equipment. Any normally intelligent monster should better go into the Mercenary Guild. Having the pitlord/GM determine both the monster and its equipment is simply too much work and risks too much customization to face the specific pc that it is paired against. I think standard equipment combined with a random encounter table could make this a viable option. Sure but as I said, I intend to pair the gladiator up against a lion or something like that, without equipment so no extra work. Once in a while I or someone else creates a monster and it will be added to the monster kennel, a seperate roster, which hopefully grows as we go. What do you mean by standard equipment? My comments about monster fights apply double to mercenary fights, as mercenary's are exponentially more customizable in build and equipment than a monster. -Jindl Mercenaries have their own roster (it's already there; just empty). I have already created 2 Mercenaries with fixed equipment (even expendables will be restored), story and all but I need more time to implement Mercs. I know you have your concerns with mercenaries but we can always regulate them in one direction or the other, and it is another option for LG. Options are good. Like with monsters, I hope our members create an interesting Mercenary on their own, or we can even dig some Ex-Gladiator out. The list will grow. In any case, I am not creating a new PC everytime someone fights a mercenary :eek: Just a small excerpt: We will open a new thread for Mercenaries similar to the Blackmarket. Everytime someone wants to hire a Merc he has to post it there. First come first serve, and once a merc is booked, no one else can book him for that week. Ashenai has created a good formula for merc fees. But as I said, first things first, and these are not mercs atm.
Pittbull 05-11-05, 01:51 PM	I won't buy this powerstone until the this issue has been solved in the tavern. Score: Agaisnt: Jindl, Sunwolf Pro: Pittbull Torn:Spasheridan
Jindl 05-11-05, 02:13 PM	I won't buy this powerstone until the this issue has been solved in the tavern. Score: Agaisnt: Jindl, Sunwolf Pro: Pittbull Torn:Spasheridan Well, you could also buy it at the higher price, then get a partial refund back to the lower price if the issue is resolved in your favor. -Jindl
xanadu 05-11-05, 02:26 PM	I won't buy this powerstone until the this issue has been solved in the tavern. Score: Agaisnt: Jindl, Sunwolf Pro: Pittbull Torn:Spasheridan I'd have to agree with Jindl. Maybe a quest or something to find this particular psion Spasheridan is talking about.
Pittbull 05-11-05, 02:27 PM	@Jindl: No problem, this powerstone is not a musthave for my character-concept. Let's wait what other opinions arise.
Jindl 05-11-05, 02:38 PM	The discussion has stalled somewhat and I'll post something there. Boxes are not necessary for the basic function of team fights; for now. I'll add a north and south starting position though. I think boxes are necessary for team fights. If you have 4 gladiators (and 2 allies) on a team, they can't all begin at Position A, and they shouldn't all have to begin basing each other. A starting box allows the party to begin in their "standard marching order" or whatever. I think starting boxes are definately needed for team fights. CR-based XP of all defeated opponoments, divided by number of allies. Lower level PCs will get more XP out of it in case of a win (a loss has a cap) but since they are pretty close together, that won't catapult them up. We can lower the difference in ECL to +1. Example: A level 3 and 4 gladiator team faces an equal team. Team A wins. A3: Win vs CR 3 (900 XP) and CR 4 (1350 XP) divided by 2 = 1125 XP A4: Win vs CR 3 (800 XP) and CR 4 (1200 XP) divided by 2 = 1000 XP Okay, so please show me how adjustments for allies (under the current system or cellar's fully baked system) will affect xp rewards? Remember, you could have faced multiple opponents with allies or your team may have had multiple allies. Well, normally. Let's say 4 ECL 4 characters face each other. A wins. A gets 3600 XP B-D get 400 XP because of the cap. We can also say the winner gets half the normal XP (1800 in our example; still more than 1200). What do you guys think? That seems pretty harsh. Especially if the 2nd place and 3rd place guy managed to each kill somebody before the 1st place guy came out of hiding and 1-shot killed them. Also, if the 4 pc's had fought 2 normal matches between them, then 2 of them would have received "winning" rewards and 2 would have gotten "losing" rewards. Maybe we should adjust the awards based upon what place you finish in the free-for-all fight? I wrote that you may "not request" a monster fight. This will be assigned by me because else a level 3 gladiator with a fly potion could choose a T-Rex. I'll give the player an appropriate monster (after all, the arena organizers wouldn't send a non-flyer vs Ixenthor unless it is anyhow immune to arrows). But if this is supposed to mimic the realism of a campaign, then that does happen sometimes. Even in your example the ECL3 gladiator would still have a tough time dealing enough damage to the T-Rex to kill it before the fly potion wore off. I'm much more in favor of randomly selected monsters. Just like random pairings between gladiators, sometimes you'll get lucky and match up well against the monster, sometimes you'll be unlucky and face a beast which matches up well against you (the old fighter vs a rust monster match), but you at least know that the match was determined by the dice, and not by a human. Creating the encounter table should be pretty easy. I'm assuming this is limited to 1 on 1 matches, so you only have to fill in CR's 3-7. I intended to limit it to non-equipment monsters for now. Over time, we can create monster kennels where we will post reaccuring monsters with equipment. Any normally intelligent monster should better go into the Mercenary Guild. I was assuming Merc's would work from the Elite Array, while normal intelligent monsters would work with the Standard Array. Be aware that limiting it to non-equipment monsters gives a great advantage to archers and spellcasters. Sure but as I said, I intend to pair the gladiator up against a lion or something like that, without equipment so no extra work. Once in a while I or someone else creates a monster and it will be added to the monster kennel, a seperate roster, which hopefully grows as we go. What do you mean by standard equipment? I mean that everytime you get paired against a stone giant, you have a stat block with equipment listed that you can write tactics against. In addition to the equipment listed in the MM, standard equipment represents the mundane and magic items of treasure that the creature possesses and can use. I'm assuming that when you play in a RL campaign, your DM doesn't let you defeat the Minotaur wielding a normal greataxe, only to find that he has a +2 greataxe as loot? That mindflayer you are about to kill would use the potion: cure serious wounds that he has as treasure to heal if he had the chance, right? Basically, we should create a standard equipment set for each monster entry that is capable of using equipment, which should include a few potions (like oil of magic weapon, protection from <alignment>, hide from animals, resist energy, cure moderate wounds, etc.) and possibly other items as well. I also think some default tactics need to be listed with each monster. They shouldn't be the responsibility of the pitlord to come up with each time. The default tactics don't have to be specific, more like generalizations. For example: A manticore's default tactics could be: Fly around hurling tail spikes until they run out, then dive and melee. And if the manticore had some kind of equipment (say it was a tattoo: metapsionic claw or envenom claw) then you might include that he will activate the tattoo before going into melee. I know it is a bunch of work to set up, but we could allow players to submit write-ups for monsters with tactics and equipment (if intelligent) to be added to the list. Once you (or an Elder) approves of the write-up, then that monster would be added to the Encounter table and that player may get a credit as a reward. I think adding the monster fights does improve LG, but I caution you to consider my points above in the interests of maintaing both actual fairness and the appearance of fairness to all, and in making the monster fights as similar to encounters in a real campaign as possible. -Jindl
spasheridan 05-11-05, 02:39 PM	About your other points, IMO, it is much more reasonable to assume that a psion took a metapsionic feat which would apply to all of his powers (even more so for enlarge power considering that the significant majority of psionic powers are close range), than it would be to spend the same feat slot to learn a single other power from another list.This is the problem though. We assume that: 1) There are psions that know ANY power we want. 2) They have taken the imprint stone feat 3) They have taken any metapsionic feat we want on the stone (enlarge is just the most common) 4) They are of the level we require Seriously, I see stones that are: Forcescreen (ml2), Skate (ml1), Vigor (ml6) A single stone.. all 3 powers.. and that's OK.. But having a psion take Expanded Knowledge is not OK. Now, I'm not saying that it's improbable to find a psion with that feat selection. What I'm saying is that it's already improbable to find all of the requirements for normal stones already so calling shenanigans on the expanded knowledge seems.. like.. um.. being upset at the 5th flying monkey to enter the room but being fine with the 1st 4. Anywho, I propose 4 solutions: 1) Any stone / scroll possible by any character is allowed, using any combination of metamagic and metapsionic and normal feats. Just stick to ECL limits for purchasing. 2) Stones / Scrolls are only available in thier basic form. No feats (meta or otherwise) can be applied to the creation of the scroll / stone. 3) Any stone / scroll possible by any character is allowed, using any combination of metamagic and metapsionic and normal feats. Just stick to ECL limits for purchasing. Expanded knowledge is not allowed though. 4) Stones / Scrolls are only available in thier basic form. No feats (meta or otherwise) can be applied to the creation of the scroll / stone. You can spend a credit to get a feat added to the item though. That's 1 credit per feat so a stone of 3 enlarged energy rays costs 3 credits. I believe that Jindl is proposing #3. I think that #1 or #4 are the more ... fair versions.
Jindl 05-11-05, 02:47 PM	@Spash - A problem with #1 is that psywar only powers are balanced in strength according to what level the psywar has to be to have them. This estimate of strength corresponds to the price the item carries in powerstone form. Allowing players to simply assume that they can buy the powerstone at the price a psion would make it unbalances this issue. Plus it doesn't make sense. The problem with #4 is that the ability to craft powerstones with metapsionic feats embedded is a pretty standard use of the craft feat and fairly common in my experience of the game. I think #3 is the right choice because it is a compromise between position #1 and #4. -Jindl
Salzorin 05-11-05, 03:00 PM	Pitlords... with this team fighting concept. Would gladiators be allowed to make pre-determined pairs? If I and another gladiator wanted to have a permanent duo, would that be acceptable? Just wondering whether you actually want it random-esque or not...
Zerone 05-11-05, 05:12 PM	Also, some one else mentioned this and it made me think; why are Animals (horses, dogs, etc.) considered as Cohorts (for xp/gp gains) and not Equipment? Why are Class Specific mounts/animals not considered Cohorts? I get why they are as they are. However... I think that your xp and gp gains should be affected by the CR of the animal/cohort/etc. To an ECL 10 character a Warhorse is not a threat; to an ECL 3 character a Warhorse is a big threat. So at ECL 10 I ride in on my Warhorse and you have the Leadership feat and bring in an ECL 8 cohort- those 2 things do not cancel eachother out. Make sense? Also, I don't think that it's fair to lose less gp and xp just because you lost the battle; you still had the benefit of the cohort so you should lose the same amount no matter what the outcome may be. I don't get back 1/2 to 1/3 of my xp/gp from a scroll I used in a lost battle... Comments please... :) *•. Z
Jindl 05-11-05, 05:23 PM	Comments please... :) *•. Z Cellardweller has proposed a scaling adjustment to the rewards based upon the strength of the ally. His proposal (called the Fully Baked Proposal) is in the final stages and will be implemented soon. At that time you'll see the reward adjustment for a heavy warhorse will be much less than that for a CR 8 ally. -Jindl
spasheridan 05-11-05, 05:44 PM	A problem with #1 is that psywar only powers are balanced in strength according to what level the psywar has to be to have them. This estimate of strength corresponds to the price the item carries in powerstone form. Allowing players to simply assume that they can buy the powerstone at the price a psion would make it unbalances this issue. Plus it doesn't make sense. I would argue that it makes just as much sense as allowing access to any other power at any level with any metamagic feat applied to it in stone form. In fact, my argument is more along the lines of: You'r right. It's crazy that you can buy a stone of steadfast perception (ml7). I also think it's crazy that you can buy a scroll of extended acid arrow (cl6). The problem with #4 is that the ability to craft powerstones with metapsionic feats embedded is a pretty standard use of the craft feat and fairly common in my experience of the game.In all my years of playing I never saw a scroll of extended anything until I came here... I think #3 is the right choice because it is a compromise between position #1 and #4. I feel that #3 unfairly picks on expanded knowledge. I feel that #3 unfairly picks on psychic powers. We've already made augmented powerstones more expensive than core rules require because of the excessive power of 1-shot items. Now we find another flaw with 1-shot items. In a few more levels I'm sure we'll find even more flaws with 1-shot items. Option #4 is a fair (psychic & magic) restriction on 1-shot items. It's a blanket policy and will keep all 1-shot items down to a minimum. It's a simple rule without excpetions, it's easy to apply and easy to understand. When new opportunites arise we wont need to make more changes to the CoCo and have people selling gear back to the office for refunds, this rule should take care of them all. Again, it's not a test of a build to use 1-shot items, it's a test of buying power. At the moment (level 6 ish) 1-shot items can still cost a goodly amount of the prize purse. Soon the cost issue will be completly negligible and 1-shot items will rule all battles.
Caterane 05-12-05, 02:25 PM	Okay, so please show me how adjustments for allies (under the current system or cellar's fully baked system) will affect xp rewards? Remember, you could have faced multiple opponents with allies or your team may have had multiple allies. I can only calculate it for the current system as I am not the expert of Cellardweller's proposal. +33% divided by number of opponoment gladiators, multiplied by allies of opponoments. In a 2v2 fight, and 1 horse in team B, Team A would get +33% /2 *1. That seems pretty harsh. Especially if the 2nd place and 3rd place guy managed to each kill somebody before the 1st place guy came out of hiding and 1-shot killed them. Also, if the 4 pc's had fought 2 normal matches between them, then 2 of them would have received "winning" rewards and 2 would have gotten "losing" rewards. Maybe we should adjust the awards based upon what place you finish in the free-for-all fight? It's a perfectly valid tactic to hide and wait (within the 10 round limit). But I like the idea of having a ranking list and basing the xp on that. Question is how to calculate and distribute it? But if this is supposed to mimic the realism of a campaign, then that does happen sometimes. Even in your example the ECL3 gladiator would still have a tough time dealing enough damage to the T-Rex to kill it before the fly potion wore off. I'm much more in favor of randomly selected monsters. Just like random pairings between gladiators, sometimes you'll get lucky and match up well against the monster, sometimes you'll be unlucky and face a beast which matches up well against you (the old fighter vs a rust monster match), but you at least know that the match was determined by the dice, and not by a human. Creating the encounter table should be pretty easy. I'm assuming this is limited to 1 on 1 matches, so you only have to fill in CR's 3-7. Your T-Rex example doesn't convince me but I now know what you meant. You mean to roll randomly on the appropriate table DMG, p79-81. That's still better than to let the player pick the monster (which would be ridiculously easy for the player and completely unrealistic), but there are still not enough flyers in there. I can count the flyers on one hand in most tables. Let's take for example 7th level at which point almost every gladiator should have a way to fly and if not can just buy a fly potion. There's the Direbear and the Flesh Golem, all terrible foes that are no threat to the flyer. Some, like the Manticore can fly but is completely outmaneuvered with his poor maneuverability, and even those who have means of ranged combat lose a lot of their power (melee for most of them) if they have to refer to ranged combat. In this long list, only the ghost and the spectre seem to be a threat to flyers. Still, I like this idea very much and if flyers prove to be the spoilers of the fun, then we can make a special monster arena with a low ceiling. After all, no organizer would set up a fight of a flying archer vs a non-flyer non-ranged combat beast. The audience would nap away. And for those who now cry "BOOO flying is all my build can do" then please note that you cannot use this ability in about half the fights of a real campaign. I was assuming Merc's would work from the Elite Array, while normal intelligent monsters would work with the Standard Array. Be aware that limiting it to non-equipment monsters gives a great advantage to archers and spellcasters. Hm, ok that's a point. I mean that everytime you get paired against a stone giant, you have a stat block with equipment listed that you can write tactics against. In addition to the equipment listed in the MM, standard equipment represents the mundane and magic items of treasure that the creature possesses and can use. I know it is a bunch of work to set up, but we could allow players to submit write-ups for monsters with tactics and equipment (if intelligent) to be added to the list. Once you (or an Elder) approves of the write-up, then that monster would be added to the Encounter table and that player may get a credit as a reward. You mean we should make a post for every monster in the encounter tables? That would be indeed a lot of work. I don't even want to count the number of creatures per level. But giving them appropriate arena equipment is a good idea. Same thing for the tactics which can be adjusted a bit to the monsters personality. I think adding the monster fights does improve LG, but I caution you to consider my points above in the interests of maintaing both actual fairness and the appearance of fairness to all, and in making the monster fights as similar to encounters in a real campaign as possible. I'm glad you see it that way. The impulse came from some criticism that in the CoCo you face only other characters while in a campaign, monsters are the main adversaries. With monster fights, we have made a big step. Now only thing we need is more arenas!! Btw, I'd be glad to have the help from all of you in designing this upcoming addition.
Malither76 05-12-05, 02:43 PM	If you guys need andything specific that you need help on let me know I have been playing for almost 15 years and would love to help if I can
Pitlords 05-13-05, 05:50 AM	Can someone cut, reverse, and paste the upper part of the arena so that the lower part is complete? Or if you could finish it in the Dungeoncrafter if that program displays the whole thing. As soon as that is done we can use the new arena. Oh, and we also need new arenas. I thought about: - the plain (few obstacles) - the dungeon (low ceiling) - the city (many obstacles) Should still be an arena; don't get confused by the name. http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Miscellaneous%20Pictures/LG-2a.jpg
Cerebus13 05-13-05, 08:53 AM	@Pitlords Gimme some time with the Gimp and I can probably whip that map into shape.
Caterane 05-13-05, 08:55 AM	That would be super!! I'd give you a credit for it :cool: Btw, if anyone is interested in making a World Map of Gladius and its vincinity, he's most welcome. Here's an example from the Guild House: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Kingside_Bishop/Tyranor.jpg I'd say any map that you present is worth a credit, more if we actually choose it. If you want to do that, we should also be able to add new locations later which develop as the Quests progress.
Cerebus13 05-13-05, 09:37 AM	How does this look? http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/cerebus13/LG-2a.jpg
Caterane 05-13-05, 09:44 AM	Yeah!! Cerebus :cheer: That's perfect!! I'll give you 2 credits for it. @all: I'll give out another 2 credits for anyone who modifies the (code) map accordingly.
Jindl 05-13-05, 10:17 AM	Why don't we move these posted maps (and this discussion) to the Maps thread? -Jindl
Beldin 05-13-05, 10:43 AM	Zhaiyad will get you all. :plotting:
xanadu 05-13-05, 12:54 PM	Since we are getting a new arena map and all, I'd like to foward a suggestion. Although I have pitlorded enough fights that I should not get confused, I still do occasionally think the coordinates on the bottom half of the map are negative and the top positive because that is the way the coordinate plane works in mathamatics. Am I the only one who finds the difference confusing?
Cerebus13 05-13-05, 01:14 PM	@xanadu Would it be easier for everyone involved if we moved the (0,0) point to the lower left corner? That way the map would stretch from x0 to x61 and y0 to y61.
Sunwolf 05-13-05, 02:04 PM	Why not use the Cartesian Coord system and have the 0,0 point be in the center? x,y coords (-,+) (+,+) (0,0) (-,-) (+,-)
Caterane 05-13-05, 02:07 PM	I don't think that's our biggest problem right now. We need a code map that reflects the new arena, and at best before next wednesday.
xanadu 05-13-05, 06:20 PM	Why not use the Cartesian Coord system and have the 0,0 point be in the center? x,y coords (-,+) (+,+) (0,0) (-,-) (+,-) Ahh, so that's what it is called. I knew that actually :embarrass
Megrim_Lord 05-13-05, 07:30 PM	issue: what happens if you roll a save in a round, but it turns out the event that triggered the save wasn't supposed to happen, but as a result of the fix it happens anyway, do I use the same save roll or roll a new one?
spasheridan 05-13-05, 07:38 PM	Usually we maintain rolls for a re-run. WHat you're decsribing is much like a re-run, but before the fight is posted. Not knowing the result I would keep the rolls. So if player A had to make 3 saves during run 1 that get rewound out of the fight by a change... when I re-ran the fight I would keep those 3 rolls as the next 3 saves that player A has to make.
Megrim_Lord 05-13-05, 07:44 PM	so you're saying keep the save yes?
Megrim_Lord 05-13-05, 07:47 PM	oh, hey cat, are you going to create a notepad version of the new map, because the old notepad version is a big help to me, though I don't know about anyone else
Caterane 05-13-05, 07:51 PM	If no one else steps up, yes, but that won't be up anytime soon. I still hope someone else wants 2 credits. ;)
Malither76 05-13-05, 09:35 PM	has anyone heard from Iced is he around, I haven't got tactics from him yet and there is a violation on his character that deals with armour, I want to run the fight somtime tommorrow if possible, what should I do? any suggestions
Sindorin 05-13-05, 11:18 PM	I also wouldn't mind him starting the quest he said that he would run for my character...
Cerebus13 05-13-05, 11:29 PM	If I remember correctly...wasn't Iced on a local swim team and was getting super busy at the end of the school year? I dunno for sure but that might be a reason for his absence.
Solmund 05-14-05, 12:29 AM	thorn vs solmund was still never done, so i have no way of updating my character. :(
Solmund 05-14-05, 12:32 AM	since no one has posted the thorn vs solmund fight, i can't put a link to it in my character sheet. since i can't put a link up, i can't update my character. and since i can't update my character, i can't do anymore fights.
Jindl 05-14-05, 01:05 AM	@Solmud - <abra-kadabra> I have just magically undone the previous pairing. Reset your character to just prior the pairing with Thorn and continue from there. :D -Jindl
Zerone 05-14-05, 01:59 PM	Another beef I have with the CoCo is how we know if we won initiative or not. The only way to know if we won intiative or not is if we see the other gladiator moving first. After our first turn, we do not know if the other character has acted or not. Therefore, I believe that tactics should not be allowed to include such actions that depend on whether or not you win Initiative. This simply is not fair and would change the arena in a more balanced way - the characters would have to have a starting plan that is unchanged, unless character A did something to allow character B to know that they had won initiative - character A moved into LoS and character B hasn't acted yet, etc... Comments? *•. Z
Caterane 05-14-05, 02:08 PM	Unlike with other metagame knowledge, the outcome of initiative is mostly known to the player. Few DMs would keep that a secret. It's also easier for the pitlord. On the other hand it would do away with the "If I win ini" clause in your tactics which might be a good thing. A listen check would be in order unless the gladiator came into few. With the new arena, it would be one step towards less metagame knowledge. If you don't know about initiative, then you cannot be sure wether the other starting position is empty because the gladiator is at another starting box, or if he has just turned invisible. This would be more realistic. I am neutral on this. The Elders have decided about that long long ago. If there are more complaints about the metagame knowledge of initiative, we can revive this poll.
Zerone 05-14-05, 02:27 PM	Concerning the 'Win/Lose Initiative' topic, I was thinking of something like this: In regular D&D you can take any action no mater what the time limit. The DM rolls for random encounter, then you roll initiative. The CoCo could mimic this by the following... At the start of battle each character rolls initiative. This is a basic initiative to make the 'time it takes to do things' fair. Each character takes actions (buffs, actively searching for opponent, etc.) until one character spots the other. Then a second initiative is rolled for battle actions, along with any surprise rounds. That way we have a real D&D encounter environment. In the CoCo we are aware of our opponents before we encounter them, and this is not like most random and even regular encounters. It is extremely hard, if not impossible, to surprise a character, yet in D&D this happens. Comments? *•. Z
Kingside_Bishop 05-14-05, 03:25 PM	Btw, if anyone is interested in making a World Map of Gladius and its vincinity, he's most welcome.If you'd like, Cat, I could draw it up for you. It would look similar to the Guild House map, though -- I'd be using the same template as I did for that one, if that'd be OK. It'd only take me about an hour, and I've the rest of the day off. Plus, I could take the credit and give it to Xanadu, since I'll be depriving him of one by forfeiting my match, and I won't be using it since I don't intend to play here anymore.
Pitlords 05-15-05, 01:01 PM	@all: It is time to include the results of our latest work! The following things will be in effect from next wednesday on! The current arena map will be replaced by the new "Standard Arena Map (http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Miscellaneous%20Pictures/LG-2a.jpg)". If you have a better name for this map, you're welcome to tell us but we need a name to distinguish it from the other 3 that are about to be created soon. With the other 3 arenas in mind, we can finally make the ceiling change the Elders decided upon some time ago which was also unanimously agreed by Ash and me, but put on hold because of the Living Gladius Reformation. The ceiling of the new arena will be reduced to 50 ft. One of the other arenas will take over the open ground scenario with a high ceiling. Along with the new arena, we will finally use Cellardweller's Ally proposal. The first gladiators are in leagues where warhorses do not justify a 25% xp penalty. CD's proposal is based on the power of the ally. I have once again posted the formula below but don't worry if that sounds complicated: Cellardweller is going to write a program for that; an xp calculator for allies. Please note that the max CR for allies has been changed from ECL-5 to ECL-4. The ,1 behind the "Acr>max(ECL-4,1)" means that you can bring in a CR 1 creature even though that would be more than your ECL-4. Any questions, please ask. Finally, I want to thank Cellardweller for this xp proposal because that's a hundred times better than the flat 25%. And also thanks for the upcoming xp calculator. Make sure you enter your name somewhere so that we're always reminded whom we have to thank for it :) I also want to express my thanks to Cerebus13 who not only completed the new .jpg arena map but also drew the (code) map. Thanks to his help we can use it from next wednesday on. Guys, that was awesome work!!! :clap: Cat The coefficient of allies is calculated according to the following CA = coefficient of allies Aecli = ECL of the i'th Ally (0 if LA is '-') Acri = CR of the i'th Ally (0 if LA is not '-') CA = sum(Aecli+Acri) For example Johnny Uncarismatic is an 10th level human cleric. He has the leadership feat, but only has leadership score of 4. If he brought in his cohort (ECL 4) rode a light warhorse (CR1) and had raised an Ogre Skeleton (CR2) and a wolf skeleton (CR1). He would have a CA=sum(4+1+2+1)=8 Maximum CA The maximum CA a gladiator may bring into each fight is equal to his ECL-2, and no individual ally may have an Aecl>ECL-2 or an Acr>max(ECL-4,1). Cost of allies Using allies in a fight reduces the rewards you recieve. You recieve CA/ECL*25% less xp and gc for winning a fight. Similarly you receive opponents oppnents CA/ECL*25% more xp and gp for defeating a gladiator that uses allies. Class allies Class allies (eg paladin's warhorse, wizards familiar) are not counted for XP calculations but do count against the CA. In case the class ally's CR/ECL surpasses the max CA, the class ally may still be brought into the arena but no other non-class ally. Examples (penalty applies to xp and gold) Level 3 gladiator (max CA=1) brings in ...a light warhorse [CR1] (CA=1): (1/1*25); 25% penalty ...a trained dog [CR1/2] (CA=1/2): (0.5/1*25); 12.5% penalty ...a level 1 merc [ECL1] (CA=1): (1/1*25); 25% penalty [merc's N/A yet] ...a heavy warhorse [CR2] (CA=2): not permitted => maxCA=1 Level 4 gladiator (max CA=2) brings in ...a light warhorse [CR1] (CA=1): (1/2*25) = 12.5% penalty ...two trained wolves [2xCR1] (CA=2): (2/2*25) = 25% penalty ...a level 2 merc [ECL2] (CA=2): (2/2*25) = 25% penalty ...a heavy warhorse [CR2] (CA=2): not permitted => Acr>max(ECL-4,1) Level 5 gladiator (max CA=3) brings in ...a light warhorse [CR1] (CA=1): (1/3*25) = 8.33% penalty ...three human zombies [3xCR1/2] (CA=1.5): (1.5/3*25) = 12.5% penalty ...three level 1 mercs [3xECL1] (CA=3): (3/3*25) = 25% penalty ...a heavy warhorse [CR2] (CA=2): not permitted => Acr>max(ECL-4,1) Level 6 gladiator (max CA=4) brings in ...a light warhorse [CR1] (CA=1): (1/4*25) = 6.25% penalty ...a heavy warhorse [CR2] (CA=2): (2/4*25) = 12.5% penalty ...a direbat [CR2] (CA=2): (2/4*25) = 12.5% penalty ...a level 1 and a level 2 merc [ECL=3] (CA=3): (3/4*25) = 18.75% penalty ...an ogre zombie [CR3] (CA=3): not permitted => Acr>max(ECL-4,1)
Sindorin 05-15-05, 05:20 PM	With the new rule, when Sokai gets his ECL 6 cohort, he won't be able to use her... correct? How is the CR of a cohort determined?
Caterane 05-15-05, 05:23 PM	Why shouldn't he be able to use the cohort? If he is ECL 4 then it will be ok.
Sindorin 05-15-05, 05:25 PM	Oh, maybe I am getting confused when it comes to calculating the cohort's CR. Sokai is ecl 6, and his leadership score allows him a cohort of ecl 6. would I need to make the cohort of a lower level in order to use her at sokai's ecl 6?
Cerebus13 05-15-05, 05:27 PM	@Sindorin According to the leadership feat you can only have a cohort that is 2 levels or lower than yourself...so Sokai can get an ECL 4 cohort, which will also fit under the Ally rules.
Caterane 05-15-05, 05:30 PM	The ECL-2 rule for leadership allies comes from the DMG and is in effect since the dawn of the CoCo, Mr. Almost Elder :nonono:
Cerebus13 05-15-05, 05:41 PM	Oh duh, forgot that the Leadership Feat was more fully explain in the DMG :P. I use the SRD too much nowadays and forget where rules are originally documented.
Sindorin 05-15-05, 05:47 PM	I just wanted to make sure that I didn't get a cohort that I couldn't use :). There are lots of guys here that have been here longer than me and aren't elders, unless I'm mistaken...
Caterane 05-15-05, 05:52 PM	I was just kidding Steve :) Don't take it seriously.
Sindorin 05-15-05, 06:24 PM	well, it must have been a huge brain fart on my part because I sent my cohort's level to Iced as a level 6 psion... if he had ended up running it, it would have been bad...
Pitlords 05-15-05, 07:25 PM	Does anyone know of a good mapmaker program with which I can create a nice world map, or at least vincinity map of Gladius?
Cerebus13 05-15-05, 07:49 PM	Does anyone know of a good mapmaker program with which I can create a nice world map, or at least vincinity map of Gladius? Here's some programs I've used: http://www.nbos.com/ http://autorealm.sourceforge.net/index.php http://www.profantasy.com/ http://www.dundjinni.com/ You also may want to download a picture editor with more features such as: http://gimp.org/
Kaigan 05-15-05, 09:58 PM	Just to make an announcement: I'm going to leaving the Coco, or I guess now the LG. Who knows how long, but I will post my three fights before I go. There are reasons of course, but I'd rather not go into them. I guess it's been fun. See you around. Kaigan
Pitlords 05-15-05, 10:18 PM	Critics help us to improve this place, Kaigan. I'd like to hear your concerns. I guess it might be the pace of the new changes but think about it: there have been almost no changes for a long time now, and now that I have a few days off (which is a rare thing atm) I want to use them effectively.
Arstimis 05-15-05, 10:21 PM	Critics help us to improve this place, Kaigan. I'd like to hear your concerns. I guess it might be the pace of the new changes but think about it: there have been almost no changes for a long time now, and now that I have a few days off (which is a rare thing atm) I want to use them effectively. For him not to want to talk about his reasons make it seem that He is leaving because of personal issues he may be having in real life
Kaigan 05-15-05, 11:27 PM	Well not only that, just some of the rules, and things in the CoCo that I'm not liking. I've deemed it better for me to take a break, maybe for all summer, and resume pbp roleplay and chat room games with my friends in Cali. While it's been fun and all, I just don't have the will power anymore to run fights, to make characters, to argue over fights, to come up with half decent tactics, and in all, spend the time that I have in this. And with that, I'll post the fights tonight, i'm finishing my second one. If there is anything wrong with them, then I apologize in advanced, but I doubt i will be able to check in on it. As I said before, I don't know how long I'll be gone, maybe a week, maybe 2, maybe months, maybe forever. But lately, this hasn't become fun any more, and has just become tedious, almost a chore. I hope everyone here will continue to have fun, but for me, the fun has died, replaced by more rules. I guess I also need time in a game where I can roleplay a bit, and let my imagination go. But yeah, everyone have fun, I may drop in time to time to check up on things, but unless something sparks the interest back into me, I doubt I will be back. Good luck with the evolution of the LG. Kaigan
Jindl 05-16-05, 12:31 AM	Well Kaigan, I can only say that I hope you enjoy your summer and your break. And I hope to see you back in the arena again when you are feeling refreshed once more. -Jindl
spasheridan 05-16-05, 12:42 AM	It is a bit of a time sink here. A fun time sink, but a time sink none the less. Some weeks it seems tough to get it all posted in time, but it's a fun pass time when I have a few minutes to spare at the office.
Kaigan 05-16-05, 12:56 AM	I guess time is an issue of sorts. My main reason is that it's lost its appeal to me. Before I wanted and strived to make a great character, and try out designs. I have a lot actually in my head, lots of builds capable of doing well, but it just seems now that it is no longer fun to create. No longer fun to run fights, to write stories. Characters now seems less to rely on their abilities, and more on items, but that's another issue I won't go into now. I just don't want to go through a weekly process of writing well written tactics, I don't want to waste my time dreaming up characters that will take 10 months to get to where I want to. I don't want to take up more fights so that I can gain more credits to get my characters where I want them. So you see for me LG has lost it's appeal to me. It has lost its fun. That's the bottom line. It's a combination of this, of the rules, of the pace of how things are going. But I don't want to get into these reasons becuase of my lack of time at the moment, and well, I don't really want to talk about them. My summer has been very monotonous at the moment, working 40hrs have manual labour at a plant nursery. I come home, and I don't know, I feel the CoCo to be an obligation of sorts. It no longer brings fun. I guess this may also be impart that my girlfriend is now gone for a month travelling, but the Living Gladius seems dead to me. All in all, I hope I will be back. I think it's great what Cat and the elders have acheived, but for some reason I don't like it, and I can't really explain why. Call it more a feeling than anything else. We'll see, I'll check up on things, and if things have settled down again, and if it seems more appealing, well then, I may join up again, but till then, I fare you all goodbye. Kaigan P.S. Don't worry, this will be (I hope) the last message.
Caterane 05-16-05, 04:49 AM	I know what you mean, Kaigan. Sometimes you need a break from something, even if you've been enjoying it for such a long time - which you did. You participated not only in updating your characters and running fights, beeing on quests and even a campaign, but also participated beyond that level. Perhaps daily. And with all things that you do daily, there comes a time when you need a break. That doesn't mean that the thing itself is bad - well in some cases that might be the case but I don't think that alone causes you to leave - no, it is the necessity to take some time off when you feel like you feel now. You can enjoy the CoCo on different levels; one is how you did it all the time, but there are also lesser levels of commitment which many of our members use. What I am saying is, take your time off, enjoy the summer and the time your girlfriend is not here LOL (just kidding :D) but don't say that you'll never come back. Check back once in a while and be it only to say hello to people with whom you have spent a lot of time together for a long time. The CoCo will still be here, with new leagues open, new characters, and new additions. With that being said, I don't say 'farewell' but 'later bud'. Cat PS: Please don't delete your characters. I'll archive them.
Pitlords 05-16-05, 05:09 AM	Kaigan, Rayos is 1 win away from level 7 and getting a place in the graveyard. ;)
King Uther 05-16-05, 11:53 AM	I am upping the amount of quests I can do a week to 4. Yes, 4. So far this next week, I have Sokai (Sindorin) on a normal quest and Barak (Salrantol) on a mini-quest. What I'm trying to do is get a bead on who wants quests, and maybe get a list so I can do a little more prep work for it. I believe Gablim (Snommelp) wants a quest or mini, but I haven't received any info. And of course the Hands of Death always have someone to assassinate.
Arstimis 05-16-05, 12:04 PM	Just as you said, Nyte would love to do another quest. I like quests much more than arena battle. It allows for on the go tactics that cant really be misinterpreted (sp) like some of my pasts fights have been.
Sindorin 05-16-05, 12:15 PM	Maybe Va'ria can join them on their next exploit as well :).
Pitlords 05-16-05, 12:30 PM	@Arty: That's now possible with arena fights too.
Arstimis 05-16-05, 06:22 PM	On the go tactics are allowed for Arena Fights? Does that have to be decided pre-fight with the pitlord or what..how does it work?
Caterane 05-16-05, 06:37 PM	On the go tactics are allowed for Arena Fights? Does that have to be decided pre-fight with the pitlord or what..how does it work? Works similar to a miniquest only that both players fight round by round and the pitlord is the referee and makes the rolls. See FAQ: Arena Combat (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5222369) "What kinds of arena fights are there?". We have increased number of arena fight types from 1 to 7.
Arstimis 05-16-05, 06:41 PM	Works similar to a miniquest only that both players fight round by round and the pitlord is the referee and makes the rolls. See FAQ: Arena Combat (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5222369) "What kinds of arena fights are there?". We have increased number of arena fight types from 1 to 7. That'll be cool Oh, and you didnt seem to notice last week, but Arthemus is readied
Pitlords 05-16-05, 06:49 PM	Oh, and you didnt seem to notice last week, but Arthemus is readied Yes, for the 5th May, not the 11th as far as I can remember.
Malither76 05-16-05, 07:08 PM	anyone want to try and do a team fight or a free for all this week, I have Gareth ECL 5 let me know
Arstimis 05-16-05, 08:54 PM	Yes, for the 5th May, not the 11th as far as I can remember. the date was set to 05-05-11, heh, but its ok
Salrantol 05-16-05, 08:58 PM	May 5, 2011 falls on a Thursday, so unless there's a schedule change by then, I wouldn't expect him to hold a fight that day, Artismis :P
Arstimis 05-16-05, 09:18 PM	May 5, 2011 falls on a Thursday, so unless there's a schedule change by then, I wouldn't expect him to hold a fight that day, Artismis :P Of course if you learned to read dates the logical way (Year, Month, Day: Highest value to lowest value), then 05-05-11 would be May 11, 2005 But not everyone is perfect so i'll fogive you :P
Sindorin 05-17-05, 02:37 AM	It really depends on a few variables. A) What country you are from, B) your religion, and C) when you were born... (edit) and your occupation or work experience.
Caterane 05-17-05, 09:28 AM	the date was set to 05-05-11, heh, but its ok What does the 11 do at the end?? You americans put the date values in whatever order you want, don't you? It's really the best if you write the months in letters.
Cerebus13 05-17-05, 09:51 AM	What does the 11 do at the end?? You americans put the date values in whatever order you want, don't you? It's really the best if you write the months in letters.Perhaps something worthwhile to throw into the FAQ? :P
Pitlords 05-17-05, 10:41 AM	We have pitlords for 14 fights. That won't be enough. If anyone of you can increase the number of fights, I'd be very happy.
Cerebus13 05-17-05, 11:04 AM	@Pitlords Put me down for <two>, I should be Pitlording as many fights as I have active characters anyways :P.
Pittbull 05-17-05, 11:34 AM	OK, gimme <one> fight for next week again!
Zerone 05-17-05, 12:18 PM	Attn. All: Concerning Readied Actions: Please read the DMG p. 25-26, about Readied Actions. I do not believe that we should eliminate the 5' step and the ability to be as specific as we want. The DMG offers different ways to handle Readied Actions - making ability checks to see if we are fast enough, wise enough, strong enough, etc., to implement them in battle. Example: Character A (Lance) is Charging Character B (Spiked Chain). B has a Readied Action: When A's within 10', take a 5' step (negating A's Charge) and Sunder Lance (no AoO due to base to base). The DM decides this is a difficult move that requires a Wis and Dex check to see if B is wise and fast enough to execute this tactic. If B fails either roll, A gets his charge and then B moves and Sunders, representing a characters true value in combat, as Int and Wis are important to tactics as well as Dex and Str, both before the fight in Tactics and during the fight in Physical Ability/Mental Prowess. Our weaker abilities do not restrict us as much as the would in a real campaign and our good ones do not have as big an impact, except for how many +'s they get to combat related things... This would help to emulate and better reflect our gladiator’s strengths and weaknesses. *•. Z
Pittbull 05-17-05, 12:22 PM	But how do you want to handle this? DC5 of DC10 for int/wis-checks? And are they made for every readied action?
Zerone 05-17-05, 12:41 PM	In the book they are DC 15. A little steap, but I like it, similar to a risk/reward situation. Also, these checks could be skill related. Instead, in the above example, of a Dex Check, it could be a Ride Check.
SoulLord 05-17-05, 01:15 PM	Quick question can a starting character spend all/most of his gold in a single item? or are we restricted to 1/4 of the total amount?
Caterane 05-17-05, 01:18 PM	@Soullord: There's no such rule. Use it as you see fit :) @Zerone: No, it would just come down to who writes the better ready action. The player cannot "foresee" what ready actions his opponoment plans (not necessary in a campaign) but that's what he has to do here in the CoCo. Additionally, it makes the pitlords workload unbearable. I'll give you the next Cat vs Jindl fight if we allow the old ready actions :P
SoulLord 05-17-05, 01:46 PM	Glad to hear that another couple of questions. is magic = to psionics? and if so is use magic device the same as use psionic device? on another one i see the psionic tatoos. 1.- Is any check needed to activate it, besides using a standard action?
Cerebus13 05-17-05, 02:05 PM	Glad to hear that another couple of questions. is magic = to psionics? and if so is use magic device the same as use psionic device? on another one i see the psionic tatoos. 1.- Is any check needed to activate it, besides using a standard action?The CoCo uses Magic/Psionics transparency as described in the SRD so those rules apply for "magic = psionics". It was resolved just last week or so that UMD is the same as UPD, so rogues/bards got a boost. No check needed to activate a Psionic Tattoo, just have to use the action to "tap" it.
Caterane 05-17-05, 03:13 PM	Where's this discussion about UMD/UPD? I think they are quite different. A shaper shouldn't be able to use his class skill Use Psionic device to activate a magic scroll. Likewise, you cannot use Psicraft to identify spells. I think the magic/psionics transperancy should only be used for powers and spells affecting each other; like dispel psionics dispelling spells, etc.
Jindl 05-17-05, 03:31 PM	Where's this discussion about UMD/UPD? I think they are quite different. A shaper shouldn't be able to use his class skill Use Psionic device to activate a magic scroll. Likewise, you cannot use Psicraft to identify spells. I think the magic/psionics transperancy should only be used for powers and spells affecting each other; like dispel psionics dispelling spells, etc. The discussion was a few pages back. UMD=UPD was unanimously agreed upon by the active Elders. It is the only transparent skill or feat. -Jindl
SoulLord 05-17-05, 03:35 PM	the hp are not very clear to me.... why did you use in the sample a 4th level wizard who coincidentally uses a d4 for hp? aniway ... what would be the starting hp for a 3rd level rogue with 12 con? 7 + 2 x3.5 + 6x1 ??? Thanks in advance
Cerebus13 05-17-05, 03:48 PM	the hp are not very clear to me.... why did you use in the sample a 4th level wizard who coincidentally uses a d4 for hp? aniway ... what would be the starting hp for a 3rd level rogue with 12 con? 7 + 2 x3.5 + 6x1 ??? Thanks in advanceA 3rd level rogue with 12 con would have: 6 + (2 * 3.5) + (3 * 1) = 16 HPs
Arstimis 05-17-05, 05:30 PM	We have pitlords for 14 fights. That won't be enough. If anyone of you can increase the number of fights, I'd be very happy. You can add me to pitlord a fight, but just 1
Salrantol 05-17-05, 07:10 PM	Here's a question regarding Use Psionic Device (relevant to me due to transparency): How does one know if one can successfully address a powerstone with UPD? Since you can't take 10 on UPD, can you take 20 to address a powerstone, since (near as I can tell) there is no danger involved? Or do you just have the Pitlord roll the check before the fight? Thanks, Salrantol
King Uther 05-18-05, 12:38 AM	I have one more quest/mini-quest slot open. If nobody else wants it, Va'ria can have it. Not that I don't like Va'ria, I just think it unfair to give someone 2 quests without allowing anyone else the chance. Deadline for quest submissions is tomorrow by 2 P.M. Central Time Zone, so I can prepare a little bit and PM the Pitlords before work.
Sindorin 05-18-05, 02:10 AM	That's true, I probably should only have one character questing at a time, especially with the same questlord and all... Va'ria will step down and simply pair for an arena fight if anyone else would like to quest. Anyone? Anyone?
Pitlords 05-18-05, 11:04 AM	New Elder in da House! With the absence of Snark and MadCow, and Mag and Druid Roxors gone forever, I have decided to promote Sindorin, Seraph of Luck, to Elder Status. I have told him that some weeks ago and written a mail to the WizO's yesterday. I am sure the Council will benefit from that!
Sindorin 05-18-05, 01:18 PM	Ausgezeichnet! I didn't expect things to be changed that quickly. Who else gets promoted then?
Pittbull 05-18-05, 01:23 PM	Congrats Steve! :cheer: Just give us your oppinions in the Elders-thread!
Jindl 05-18-05, 02:16 PM	Anyone know which price is correct for Druid's Vestments? The 3750 gp listed in the Wondrous Item's table, or the 10000 gp listed in the item description? -Jindl
Huan 05-18-05, 02:28 PM	Anyone know which price is correct for Druid's Vestments? The 3750 gp listed in the Wondrous Item's table, or the 10000 gp listed in the item description? -Jindl It's 10k, I'm afraid.
Megrim_Lord 05-18-05, 04:05 PM	It's 10k, I'm afraid. actually I think its 3750, +1/day wildshape is not worth 10k...
xanadu 05-18-05, 04:19 PM	actually I think its 3750, +1/day wildshape is not worth 10k... I'd second this interpretation.
SoulLord 05-18-05, 06:26 PM	quick question whats the link of the new map?
Pitlords 05-18-05, 07:08 PM	It's in the Characters of Gladius Thread. Just scroll down.
Sunwolf 05-19-05, 09:00 AM	In the Map thread: Is it a typo on the new map or has the ceiling really been lowered to 50 ft?
Pitlords 05-19-05, 09:25 AM	No typo. Ceiling is at fifty feet. There will soon be another arena that mimics the open ground scenario.
Pittbull 05-19-05, 09:31 AM	A crawling tatoo of touchsight costs 750gp or 1500gp? - Personal range!
Cerebus13 05-19-05, 09:37 AM	A crawling tatoo of touchsight costs 750gp or 1500gp? - Personal range!25 * Level of Power * ML is base equation... So 25 * 3 * 5 = 375gp 375 * 2 = 750gp (for a personal power) I think that's all there is to it....?
Pittbull 05-19-05, 09:57 AM	25 * Level of Power * ML is base equation... So 25 * 3 * 5 = 375gp 375 * 2 = 750gp (for a personal power) I think that's all there is to it....? Isn't it 50*3*5=750 for tatoos? A normal tatoo of touchsight cost 1500gp! I wasn't sure about the crawling type!
Cerebus13 05-19-05, 09:59 AM	I'm using this section of the SRD: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/creatingPsionicItems.htm#creatingPsionic Tattoos Says that 25 * Level of Power * Manifester level is the base, and personal range tattoos cost double.
Pittbull 05-19-05, 10:09 AM	Table: Psionic Tattoos Level MarketPrice 1st 50 gp 2nd 300 gp 3rd 750 gp Yeah, but isn't this the price, if you create the tatoo yourself. There's another table for tatoos (you see above). I think this is the price for normal not personal tatoo. The latter have the double of this price. I'd be so glad, if you proof me wrong! :)
Cerebus13 05-19-05, 10:34 AM	Oh....well now I'm confused :confused:. It seems I've been laboring under the wrong equation for pricing my tattoos, I'll have to adjust for that :P. By that table a 3rd level power that is Personal would cost 750*2, so 1500. Kinda spendy for a single tattoo...
Iced 05-19-05, 10:35 AM	my computer crashed i'm forced to use school computers until i get it back (that's like 1/2 hour a day and no weekends...:() i'll try to get on a friends comp to participate, but it's not looking promising for the next couple of weeks.
Jindl 05-19-05, 10:57 AM	Tattoos are the psionic versions of potions. They have the same pricing, but have some advantages and only a few disadvantages. The advantages are that you don't have to spend a move action that provokes an AoO to draw the tattoo, which means you can make a single move while activating a tattoo vs only a 5 ft step to draw/drink a potion. Also, you cannot make a potion of a personal range spell (so no potions of shield or see invisibility). However, you can make a tattoo of a personal range power, although they are twice as expensive. Still, if you're willing to pay the extra cost, it can be done. The only disadvantages to tattoos are that they are subject to the psionic hole feat (which is really more of a disadvantage of that feat), and that you can only wear 16 of them at one time, as opposed to being able to carry many more potions. Many people think that the 2x cost for personal range powers doesn't apply to crawling tattoos. IMO, this is wrong and a broken interpretation. If this was true, then why would anyone purchase normal tattoos? I think that the 2x cost should apply to all tattoos, crawling or otherwise. -Jindl
Pittbull 05-19-05, 11:39 AM	Thanks a lot! 1500gp for tatoo of touchsight, crawling or not, is quite expensive! I think, I won't take it and rely on other recources.
Megrim_Lord 05-19-05, 06:23 PM	hey Cat, I think the EL calculator is busted, I almost wet myself laughing when it said CR 2 would be a challenge for Indri...
Caterane 05-19-05, 06:31 PM	Forget about the text there. It's good to calculate XP and treasure, and some other things. Up to CR 5 is ok.
Graffix78 05-19-05, 11:10 PM	Greetings and Salutations everyone. My name is Graffix and my brother Malithier turned me on to your community. I look forward to joining ya if you'll have me. I will try to get a character up asap. See ya soon :P
Pittbull 05-20-05, 03:45 AM	Last week I bought in a bit of rush armor-spikes for Hagrid, but I forgot that he's able to use large armor-spikes. He hasn't used them in his fight and want to exchange them to large ones. Thank you! Edit: How much are ML3 expansion-powerstones (2PP used for augmentation) with the new house-rule for powerstones?
KerlanRayne 05-20-05, 05:00 AM	Last week I bought in a bit of rush armor-spikes for Hagrid, but I forgot that he's able to use large armor-spikes. He hasn't used them in his fight and want to exchange them to large ones. Thank you! Edit: How much are ML3 expansion-powerstones (2PP used for augmentation) with the new house-rule for powerstones?Augmenting to 3pp would make it equivalent to a second level power so it would be 2*3*25 = 150 gp. KerlanRayne PS - Are tattoos now using this new rule? Would a ML 5 Vigor Tattoo be 750 gp?
Pittbull 05-20-05, 05:32 AM	Augmenting to 3pp would make it equivalent to a second level power so it would be 2*3*25 = 150 gp. KerlanRayne PS - Are tattoos now using this new rule? Would a ML 5 Vigor Tattoo be 750 gp? I still have problems to calculate the price! ML5 vigor tatoo: 50gpbasepricex5ML=250gpx2personal=500gp
KerlanRayne 05-20-05, 05:56 AM	I still have problems to calculate the price! ML5 vigor tatoo: 50gpbasepricex5ML=250gpx2personal=500gpT he new rule for power stones is that if you augment powers then the level of the powers goes up as well. In your previous example you asked about a ML 3 Expansion for 3 pp. Second level powers use a minimum of 3 pp so it would be treated like a second level power for pricing, ie 2*3*25=150 gp. If you wanted an Energy Ray power stone augmented to 5 pp it would be treated like a third level power (Because third level powers cost a minimum of 5 pp). This would make it cost 3*5*25=375 gp. If that clearer? By the way, my question about the Vigor Tattoo was wrong anyway. It should say "Would a ML 5 Vigor Tattoo cost 1,500 gp?" 3*5*50=750*2=1,500 gp. KerlanRayne
Caterane 05-20-05, 07:16 AM	@Kerlan: Yes. The power is important, not the container that stores it. A ML 5 vigor tattoo also costs 2°
Pittbull 05-20-05, 09:10 AM	@Kerlan: Thanks, now it's clear!
Zerone 05-20-05, 01:35 PM	Greetings and Salutations everyone. My name is Graffix and my brother Malithier turned me on to your community. I look forward to joining ya if you'll have me. I will try to get a character up asap. See ya soon :P 'ello Graffix!!! Hope you enjoy your 'stay' in the Living Gladius! *•. Z
Salzorin 05-21-05, 10:53 AM	@Jindl/All I was having a really hard time finding fault with Jindl's complaint against shooting into a square if you can't see a square, based on the rules... silly as the real-life applications of it are. So I decided to do some posting over on some general Wizard boards to see if anybody else had some insight about it, when somebody finally gave me an answer I think works... here's my take on things, just to see if it satisfies your interpretation: If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight he is considered to have total concealment from you. You can’t attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies. A successful attack into a square occupied by an enemy with total concealment has a 50% miss chance (instead of the normal 20% miss chance for an opponent with concealment). According to this quote, you don't need to have LoS to a square to attack into it. The reason is because you are not choosing the square as a target. You are "attacking into a square," which is different. If the square was actually my target, then on a successful attack roll, I would send an arrow straight into the dirt. So basically, the wording of the rule isn't saying that I attack the square... it's saying that I fire in the direction of the square. This rule says that I "can attack into a square" if I can't see my opponent. We all naturally kept saying that the square becomes my target, thus I would have to have LoS to the square in order to shoot. But in actuallity, the square ISN'T my target... my target is still the person inside of the square, which I wouldn't be allowed to attack if it weren't for the quoted rule above, but there's no circular logic back to the original LoS rule for the square being a "target." I know you guys voted, so the issue has already been resolved, just thought this look at it might give some people some peace of mind.
Cerebus13 05-21-05, 12:44 PM	@All This is either a typo or I am misunderstanding how XP is calculated for Allies. Cost of allies Using allies in a fight reduces the rewards you recieve. You recieve CA/ECL*25% less xp and gc for winning a fight. Similarly you receive opponents oppnents CA/ECL*25% more xp and gp for defeating a gladiator that uses allies. Examples (penalty applies to xp and gold) Level 3 gladiator (max CA=1) brings in ...a light warhorse [CR1] (CA=1): (1/1*25); 25% penalty ...a trained dog [CR1/2] (CA=1/2): (0.5/1*25); 12.5% penalty ...a level 1 merc [ECL1] (CA=1): (1/1*25); 25% penalty ...a heavy warhorse [CR2] (CA=2): not permitted => maxCA=1 The equation works out to be CA/ECL * 25 to get your penalty. However, what is the ECL being used here? From the above example ECL=1...which isn't the gladiator's nor the horse/dog in the first two examples. I think what cellardweller meant to use there is max(CA) instead, which would make sense in this case since max(CA)=1. Does this seem more correct or I am looking at it wrong?
Pitlords 05-21-05, 01:04 PM	@ALL: Here's the first draft for the FAQ: The Rules of Gladius: Campaigns (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5660576). Campaigns are not enabled yet but they will soon be. I am posting this link to spark a discussion. If there's anything the should go into the FAQ too, please tell me. Campaigns are more difficult to balance than Quests but I am sure I have found a good way. @Cerebus: "Level 3 gladiator (max CA=1) brings in..."
Arstimis 05-21-05, 01:33 PM	Im really sorry I am going to have to do this. Everytime I seem to get free time to be able to pitlord agiain, something comes up here So, is there anyone that would be able to take my fight for me? Sorry again
cellardweller 05-22-05, 03:09 AM	Core Collesium Rewards Calculator (http://users.bigpond.net.au/petersd/coco/allycalc/) Better late than never I guess. Let me know if you find any discrepencies or if you have trouble running it.
cellardweller 05-22-05, 03:23 AM	And just in case I get hit by a bus tommorrow, the source code is here (http://users.bigpond.net.au/petersd/coco/allycalc/allycalc.zip)
King Uther 05-22-05, 03:25 AM	When it becomes possible, I am willing to run a campaign for 3-4 gladiators. If anyone wants to go, PM me and I'll start drafting on some story ideas.
Pitlords 05-22-05, 05:33 AM	Thank you so much Cellardweller!! This is probably the most useful tool the CoCo has, and it surely helps to prevent a lot of mistakes. That's definately worth some credits. I will add it to the Roster at once!
Luni 05-22-05, 12:40 PM	Hello everyone. My name is Luni, and I hope to have a gladiator up and running soon. I hope to have fun and talk to you all! :D
Snommelp 05-22-05, 04:44 PM	Wow... a lot has happened since I went away. So, new map, eh? Anything else important I should know about, or is that it?
Salzorin 05-22-05, 05:23 PM	Question on dissolving weapon, the level 2 psychic warrior power... It says that it gets applied to one held weapon and the next successful attack discharges the damage... would this include bows? Could I apply dissolving weapon to a bow and then get the 4d6 damage on the next succesful bow attack?
Arstimis 05-22-05, 06:41 PM	Question on dissolving weapon, the level 2 psychic warrior power... It says that it gets applied to one held weapon and the next successful attack discharges the damage... would this include bows? Could I apply dissolving weapon to a bow and then get the 4d6 damage on the next succesful bow attack?It says something about it being on the next attack. If attack misses, then the dissolving weapon is lost
Salzorin 05-22-05, 08:03 PM	quote from Dissolving weapon: As dissolving touch, except your weapon is charged with acid until you make a successful attack.
Zerone 05-22-05, 09:16 PM	Hello everyone. My name is Luni, and I hope to have a gladiator up and running soon. I hope to have fun and talk to you all! :D Hey Luni! Welcome to the CoCo. :D *•. Z
Pittbull 05-23-05, 02:53 AM	Question on dissolving weapon, the level 2 psychic warrior power... It says that it gets applied to one held weapon and the next successful attack discharges the damage... would this include bows? Could I apply dissolving weapon to a bow and then get the 4d6 damage on the next succesful bow attack? Of course, you can aply in on a bow. The target says one held weapon. So, I would say not 50 arrows. ;)
Pittbull 05-23-05, 02:54 AM	Hello everyone. My name is Luni, and I hope to have a gladiator up and running soon. I hope to have fun and talk to you all! :D Hello Luni! :)
Pitlords 05-23-05, 10:50 AM	Welcome to the Core Coliseum, Luni! If you have any questions, you can ask them here and you'll receive a quick answer. If not, then write a PM to one of the Elders (recognizable by their title) or Caterane. @all: Can someone take over the Hakatri Abendstern (Beldin) vs Zubair Suhaim (KerlanRayne): Arstimis fight?
Sindorin 05-23-05, 10:55 AM	Send me the tactics, I'm working on Lance vs. Elder at the moment and should have time to do both fights today.
cellardweller 05-23-05, 11:05 AM	When the topic of using readied actions while mounted last came up, we ruled that once you readied, your turn was ended so you could no longer take the free actions required to guide your mount. Hence no casting at the end of a double move etc. This has since been overruled by the RoG article mounted combat 3. Ready: Your mount's movement doesn't affect your ability to ready an action. If your mount makes a single move, you can ready an action before or after the mount moves. If your mount runs or makes a double move, you ready your action when your mount has completed half its movement for the turn.
Sindorin 05-23-05, 11:19 AM	Oh my, Ceres may have just shat himself with glee...
Arstimis 05-23-05, 12:07 PM	@all: Can someone take over the Hakatri Abendstern (Beldin) vs Zubair Suhaim (KerlanRayne): Arstimis fight? Please... Edit: Thanks Sindorin..sending tactics now
Sindorin 05-23-05, 12:52 PM	Got them
Luni 05-23-05, 01:30 PM	One quick question: Can a druid start the Gladiator with the animal companion, or must I quest for it first. The quick start guide seems a little vague to me. Thanks for the help.
Kaigan 05-23-05, 01:57 PM	One quick question: Can a druid start the Gladiator with the animal companion, or must I quest for it first. The quick start guide seems a little vague to me. Thanks for the help. You can start with the animal companion. Before your character comes to Gladius you are considered to have "infinite time" before you start battling. This basically means, you have your animal companion, you have all your stuff scribed, all your things self crafted, etc. If you started at a high enough level to be able to use a pegasus, you could have bought the pegi egg, and trained it yourself. So yeah, you have your animal companion. But when you hit 4th level, and you want an advanced animal companion, then you must quest for that. On another note, I've looked over your character sheet. Don't forget your xp costs for scribing your scrolls. Kaigan
Pitlords 05-23-05, 02:19 PM	@Luni: The Quickstart Guide just assists you in making a character quickly. For detailed information, check the FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5221608). There you will find all answers. Or by asking them here ;) @Cellardweller: :/ And I thought we had found a rule to make this cheesy trick impossible. Let's take this issue to the Council I say.
Malither76 05-23-05, 02:41 PM	I think I may have missed this but I was checking the issues in the Council of Elders post and I'm not sure what the issue with Grappling a person on a mount is, the Rules of the Game articles state, that when you iniate a grapple with someone that is mounted you move onto the mount, this movement is free but would grant the mount an AoO, if the mount can not support your character (for example if your character is large, you move next to the mount and maintain the grapple one on the mount one on the ground. The grapplers can still do all normal grapple actions now, and the mount can make attacks at the opponet who is now flatfooted, the person on the mount can escape the grapple and have the mount move a single move, or he can if he winns a check have his mount do a normal move dragging the opponent along with. I was just wondering what is the issue thats going on and why these rules aren't being followed.
Meek Head 05-23-05, 03:37 PM	Hello everyone! I've been watching this place for a while now and after much inner debate I've decided to post a character and give it a try. I'll have him up by the end of today hopefully! If I choose a race that has a LA of 2 can I start with 2 levels, so ECL 4?
Cerebus13 05-23-05, 03:48 PM	Hello everyone! I've been watching this place for a while now and after much inner debate I've decided to post a character and give it a try. I'll have him up by the end of today hopefully! If I choose a race that has a LA of 2 can I start with 2 levels, so ECL 4?Starting ECL for normal gladiators is 3 unfortunately, but you can start characters with a higher ECL by using "credits" received by participating within the community. This post here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5660602) talks about the credit system in more depth. So with these options available you could try to earn 4 credits (the cost required to start an ECL 4 gladiator) before creating your character, or you could start them at ECL 3 with only a single character level and +2 LA. Anyways, welcome!
Pitlords 05-23-05, 05:07 PM	Hi Meekhead! Welcome to the CoCo I'm glad you decided to give it a try. You have to start with a ECL 3 character. If you have LA+2, then you have 1 HD left which can be any one class level. I'd advise against a higher entry ECL because you would have to pitlord some fights first to do that. You can always post a sceond (or third) character later. The Quickstart Guide, the FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5221608), and the Tavern here should answer most of your questions. Pairings are on wednesday so if you have your character up and ready by then, you'll be paired.
cellardweller 05-23-05, 07:53 PM	I think I may have missed this but I was checking the issues in the Council of Elders post and I'm not sure what the issue with Grappling a person on a mount is, the Rules of the Game articles state, ... The discussion took place prior to the publication of the articles. The rules presented in RoG are the ones in effect.
Zerone 05-24-05, 09:48 AM	A beef I have with the CoCo is how we know if we won initiative or not. The only way to know if we won intiative or not is if we see the other gladiator moving first. After our first turn, we do not know if the other character has acted or not. Therefore, I believe that tactics should not be allowed to include such actions that depend on whether or not you win Initiative. This simply is not fair and would change the arena in a more balanced way - the characters would have to have a starting plan that is unchanged, unless character A did something to allow character B to know that they had won initiative - character A moved into LoS and character B hasn't acted yet, etc... In regular D&D you can take any action no mater what the time limit. The DM rolls for random encounter, then you roll initiative. The CoCo could mimic this by the following... At the start of battle each character rolls initiative. This is a basic initiative to make the 'time it takes to do things' fair. It could even be determined by the highest Dex. Each character takes actions (buffs, actively searching for opponent, etc.) until one character spots the other. Then a second initiative is rolled for battle actions, along with any surprise rounds. That way we have a real D&D encounter environment where Spot and other skills/feats/abilities are more important and the CoCo is more D&D based. In the CoCo we are aware of our opponents before we encounter them, and this is not like most random and even regular encounters. It is extremely hard, if not impossible, to surprise a character in the CoCo, yet in D&D this happens. Comments? *•. Z This is two qoutes put together. I looked back and noticed that no one but Cat had mentioned anything, which was more or less for it to be up to the Elders. Well then, Elders, any comments? Also, even if you aren't an Elder, your voice would like to be heard - I'm not as demanding as Cat... :smirk:
Pittbull 05-24-05, 11:05 AM	I favor your idea of having no meta-gaming knowledge of initiative. I think, it's the pitlord's decission if the gladiator believes that he has won ini or not, listen-checks are quite useful! Your idea with two initiative-rolls is nice exspecially in the new arena, where the gladiator only knows that there is somebody in this big hall who wants to harm him, but he has no idea where he is (there might be surprise-actions,... yummy!). Arena-fights are counted as one encounter or one fight, how are there official rules for these, are there more than one initiative-rolls?
Meek Head 05-24-05, 12:08 PM	My character is up, ready for this week. Please look him over for any mistakes.
Sunwolf 05-24-05, 01:50 PM	My character is up, ready for this week. Please look him over for any mistakes. Welcome Meek Head! Took a quick look at your character Mugen: You should come up with a height and weight for your character. Your weight will possibly affect the speed at which your light warhorse moves. Touch Ac should be 13. Lay on hands should be 2(level)*4(chr mod)=8 pts per day Concentration is a class skill for Paladin so you don't have to pay double. To get the tool bonus for handle animal you need to by a 50gp+(cost) whistle (handle animal tool) Need 50gp+(cost) bit and bridle for tool bonus for ride skill. You also get a +2 synergy bonus on your ride skill for having 5 ranks in Handle animal. Masterwork weapons add 300gp to the cost of the weapon so MW greatsword is 350gp Military saddle is only 20gp. Breastplate is medium armor so max speed is 20 regardless of encumberance. You will want to add a stat block for your light warhorse.
SoulLord 05-24-05, 04:10 PM	well my character is ready ...... i think. http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6204381&postcount=279 anyone see any flagrant mistakes?
Meek Head 05-24-05, 06:13 PM	Thanks Sunwolf. I made the corrections you mentioned and changed him a little. :) He should now be ready to enter the arena!
Jindl 05-24-05, 06:22 PM	well my character is ready ...... i think. http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6204381&postcount=279 anyone see any flagrant mistakes? Need to list ht and wt. Add the ability score mods for Int + Wis. Flat AC should include size mod = 15. Grap mod is -2 (+2 bab +0 str -4 size). I think a small sling does 1d3, not 1d4. The dagger should be +3 to hit (+2 bab +1 size). Unless you want to add the masterwork quality for another 300 gp? On skills, move any conditional synergies (like the +2 from decipher script for UMD on scrolls) outside of the skill bonus calculation. You can also streamline your notation quite a bit. Here is an example (for UMD): +13 Use Magic Device [6 rnks +2 Cha +3 feat +2 feat] [+2 synergy on scrolls] I'm not sure what the grey'd out notation means at the end of every skill line, but you have [2ftr] at the end of decipher script, and I think that is probably a mistake. For cross class skills, like Spellcraft, you can mark the ranks as 2/2 rnks, which shows that you spent 2 skill points on a cross class skill. That's all I notice on first glance. Good Luck! -Jindl
SoulLord 05-24-05, 06:26 PM	thanks jindl Ii'll start working on it right away
King Uther 05-24-05, 10:56 PM	I have two quest/miniquest spots open starting this next week if anyone wants to go. Just PM me please. Also, as far as the campaign I'd like to run, I'd prefer it to be good/good-natured characters for this one. If at all possible, I'd like to run the higher level good guys(Jindl, Elder, Ix, Laph). If you guys are interested, I have a story idea to draft and would be delighted to let you guys discover an ancient mystery about Gladius and the dealings going on there even now....
Salzorin 05-25-05, 01:26 AM	Just set my new toon to ready for tomorrows pairings... (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6225264&postcount=280) If people want to take a look at him, see if they can find any mistakes... I'm always happy when mistakes are found before I get paired and can't make changes =P
Jindl 05-25-05, 01:39 AM	Just set my new toon to ready for tomorrows pairings... (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6225264&postcount=280) If people want to take a look at him, see if they can find any mistakes... I'm always happy when mistakes are found before I get paired and can't make changes =P You have him as a Wizard 1 / Psychic Warrior 1, but I think you mean Cleric 1 / Psychic Warrior 1. Are you sure you don't want to wear armor? It won't interfere with your divine spellcasting or power use (only your arcane scrolls will be affected). Please identify which class provided which ranks for each skill. (See the Elder as an example of a good method of how to write out your skills.) You can't prebuff dissolving weapon. We ruled long ago that you can't hold the charge of a touch spell (or effect) as a prebuff. Also, you can't make rolls outside of the arena, so there's no method to determine whether you succeed at the manifester level check to successfully activate the powerstone. Under equipment, you have your bow listed as Mighty +5, when it should only be Mighty +4. Your tattoo: synesthate should be 100 gp, since it is a personal range power. Your wand: true strike should cost 750 gp, not 700 gp. That should leave you with 16 gp. Although not an error, I would suggest that you trade out the powerstone: 2x dissolving weapon (ML4) for a chain shirt and adding the masterwork quality to your greatsword. I think the ac boost and extra +1 to hit will be worth more than a single 1 shot would be. Good luck! -Jindl
Salzorin 05-25-05, 01:46 AM	Thanks for catching those Jindl (Apparently I forgot to go back over to clean up changes I had made) Yeah, I know... no armor is kind of silly. But the offensive power is his biggest selling point, so the armor will have to come later after I win some money :D
Malither76 05-25-05, 01:55 AM	@Jindi, I pm'ed Cat about 3 weeks ago and asked about the dissolving weapon and he said it was a valid prebuff, he ran my character this past week agains Trokk allowing it and I have had it on Gareth for the past 3 weeks as one and I just took the dissolving weapon power at my new level so I could stop buying powerstones. So what do we do from here :)
Jindl 05-25-05, 02:08 AM	@Jindi, I pm'ed Cat about 3 weeks ago and asked about the dissolving weapon and he said it was a valid prebuff, he ran my character this past week agains Trokk allowing it and I have had it on Gareth for the past 3 weeks as one and I just took the dissolving weapon power at my new level so I could stop buying powerstones. So what do we do from here :) Cat's wrong. It happens. ;) Touch spells/powers are not valid prebuffs. Dissolving weapon works "as dissolving touch, except your weapon is charged ..." So its a touch spell delivered by your weapon and not a valid prebuff. FYI: I didn't make that rule (and frankly I'm fine with reversing it). That one comes from Moherajikuyx. -Jindl
Luni 05-25-05, 07:32 AM	My character is ready for the pairings too. I don't think I have anything wrong. Edit: How do you do the linking to a single post? I can't seem to figure it out.
Caterane 05-25-05, 09:03 AM	@Luni: First you need to get the identification number of your post which appears in your status bar when you hover the mouse cursor over the Quote button (just hover; do not click on it!), or by having the cursor hover over the # sign. Your last post for example has the ID number 6266569 Now you can either use the NAME OF THE LINK command, or the one at the bottom of the Roster: NAME. Try it out. Here's an example: Link to Luni's post @Jindl: Dissolving weapon does not use "hold the charge" but "until discharged" which is different. You do not need to use an action to keep it activated (unlike with Hold the Charge Spells), nor does it vanish if you cast something else. That's why Dissolving Weapon is a valid prebuff.
Zerone 05-25-05, 09:15 AM	Attn. Luni: @Luni: First you need to get the identification number of your post which appears in your status bar when you hover the mouse cursor over the Quote button (just hover; do not click on it!), or by having the cursor hover over the # sign. Your last post for example has the ID number 6266569 Now you can either use the NAME OF THE LINK command, or the one at the bottom of the Roster: NAME. Try it out. Here's an example: Link to Luni's post Or you can just hover over the post number (across from the date above the poster's location/join date - this one is 2290, Cat's post above is 2289) and right click it & then copy shortcut. Then create a post and click the Insert Hyperlink icon. Then you can type anything into the first 'script prompt', then past the shortcut in the second 'script prompt', or just cancel the first and past in the second. Examples to the same post... Cat's Post (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6266961&postcount=2289) http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6266961&postcount=2289 Hope this and Cat's ideas help. :D *•. Z
Jindl 05-25-05, 09:23 AM	@Jindl: Dissolving weapon does not use "hold the charge" but "until discharged" which is different. You do not need to use an action to keep it activated (unlike with Hold the Charge Spells), nor does it vanish if you cast something else. That's why Dissolving Weapon is a valid prebuff. It is exactly a holding the charge touch power. Per the description, it works exactly like another touch power, except that the weapon delivers the touch on a successful hit. And it never takes an action to keep activated the held the charge of a touch spell. Where did you get that rule from? I've already said that I personally don't care if we revoke the "No prebuff with held touch spells" rule. But dissolving weapon definately falls under that rule. -Jindl
Caterane 05-25-05, 09:35 AM	I don't have my books here right now; I'll reply later. Touch spells as prebuffs ain't a good idea. First of all, no player character in a campaign runs around with a touch spell for 16 hours. And of course, with prebuffs not counting against your daily limit, every spellcaster/psionic character would prebuff with touch spells (at no disadvantage). This definately doesn't minic a real campaign.
Cerebus13 05-25-05, 10:23 AM	I don't have my books here right now; I'll reply later. Touch spells as prebuffs ain't a good idea. First of all, no player character in a campaign runs around with a touch spell for 16 hours. And of course, with prebuffs not counting against your daily limit, every spellcaster/psionic character would prebuff with touch spells (at no disadvantage). This definately doesn't minic a real campaign.Perhaps players would, but they would have to drop the charge almost every time in order to prepare for the battle with common buff/detection spells such as See Invisibility, Fly or whatever. It wouldn't matter to me much if a Wizard wanted to cast Chill Touch before a battle started...only to lose it in the first round if I went Invisible and he wanted to counter that tactic. Unfortunately to allow the Dissolving powers as prebuffs you'd have to allow all touch powers/spells as prebuffs, because it is one that just doesn't follow the normal touch rules. Touch Powers and Holding the Charge In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch power on the round you manifest it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the power) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything with your hand while holding a charge, the power discharges. If you manifest another power, the touch power dissipates.The bolded section seems to indicate that their are some Touch powers that are the exception to the typical rule of holding charge and future manifestations discharging the Touch power. Dissolving Touch fits the bill here pretty accurately as it has a Range of Touch.
Salzorin 05-25-05, 10:39 AM	While Dissolving Touch does have a range of Touch, Dissolving Weapon has a range of Personal... wouldn't that mean that it's exempt from this rule? Also... As dissolving touch, except your weapon is charged with acid until you make a successful attack. Isn't it reasonable to say that I can prebuff with it and not actually make any attacks after I have until the fight starts? It seems that it charges my weapon with the power, and there's no required holding of a charge cause it already has the conditional until you make a successful attack discharge...
Jindl 05-25-05, 11:17 AM	I'm starting to think that dissolving touch may actually qualify as a prebuff. That range of "personal" is what is convincing me. I'm going to have to reverse my previous conclusion and say that as a personal range power, dissolving weapon does qualify as a prebuff (even if it acts like a touch power). @Salzorin - Unfortunately, your PC still cannot prebuff with the powerstone: dissolving weapon (ML4), because you are only a Lvl1 Psywar, and it would require a successful manifester level check to activate the powerstone (with consequences for failure). Since its not automatic, it can't be used as a prebuff. Once you become a Lvl4 Psywar, you could prebuff by manifesting the power or using the powerstone. -Jindl
Salzorin 05-25-05, 11:25 AM	aw, good point. I always forget about the little things =(
Cerebus13 05-25-05, 11:25 AM	I'm starting to think that dissolving touch may actually qualify as a prebuff. That range of "personal" is what is convincing me. I'm going to have to reverse my previous conclusion and say that as a personal range power, dissolving weapon does qualify as a prebuff (even if it acts like a touch power). @Salzorin - Unfortunately, your PC still cannot prebuff with the powerstone: dissolving weapon (ML4), because you are only a Lvl1 Psywar, and it would require a successful manifester level check to activate the powerstone (with consequences for failure). Since its not automatic, it can't be used as a prebuff. Once you become a Lvl4 Psywar, you could prebuff by manifesting the power or using the powerstone. -JindlThis is a rather confusing situation actually because the power "Dissolving Touch" has a range of Touch (thus making it a touch power), while the power "Dissolving Weapon" has a range of Personal. So one power falls under the "no touch power prebuff" rule, while the other one does not (even though Dissolving Weapon says that it is like Dissolving Touch in all aspects except Range and Target). :confused:
Malither76 05-25-05, 01:45 PM	I think they put thing like it acts just like previous spell in there to save money on text, the description of the spell is were it is different though, example one is range of touch meaning you hold spell until you touch somthing the other is personal as you charge your weapon and it does not lose the charge if it touches somthing only on a successfull attack.
Iced 05-26-05, 12:31 AM	My computer is back and I can now participate in the CoCo again. This next week I'll take a fight and I can questlord if anyone is interested.
Vivat Grendel 05-26-05, 02:48 AM	If memory serves... the reason touch attacks were ruled ineffective as prebuffs was there was no way to safely rule that a caster could avoid touching anythong before the fight. However, I see how you could refrain from attacking with your acid weapon, even if you were attacked in the locker room on the way to the arena, just use another weapon. Reminds me of a joke, imagine this scenario, if prebuffs were allowed for touch only attacks: Cast - Chachi - Gladiator - Wizard level 3, scroll of Shocking Grasp level 5 prebuffed. Meddoc - Passerby and arena cleric. Scene, Locker room before the big fight. Chachi: Wow my first big fight, I'm so scared I could poo my robes right now, glad I wore the brown ones. - Walking the halls to the Arena entrance, sees the door to the little wizards room, and ducks inside. - Chachi: **whistling** Let me whip this out. **ZZZZZAAAAAPPPPP!!!!!** - SCREAMS of pain, and smoke drifting out from his robes, Chachi stumbles into the hall, and stumbles toward Meddoc. Chachi: **croaks** Help me, please.... Meddoc: (rushing towards him) My son, what has happened, you seem in great pain. Chachi: Arrrghhhhhh! Meddoc: My son, tell me what is wrong, I am a cleric of Pelor, with the healing domain, and many ranks in the heal skill. I have my full load of spells, tell me what it is and with Pelor's guidance all I need is to lay my healing touch upon the afflicted area and you will be made whole. Chachi: It's my little Staff of Power. Meddoc: Your what?? Chachi: My mini Rod of Lordly Might. Meddoc: You mean...!? Chachi: My Wand of Wizardly Pleasures Meddoc: Oh, I see. Chachi: But you said you can fix it, use your healing touch. Meddoc: Hold on, let me cast Contact Higher Power **mumbles, moves hands, cast spell** Chachi: What did he say. Meddoc: Pelor says you are going to die, sorry. **Hustles off to wherever he was going** So, let that be a lesson to never prebuff touch spells, your Rod will thank you. PS, The original joke as I remember it. Two Texans are out one day looking for some lost cattle, Bill tells Joe to pull over cause he needs to take a leak. Bill gets out and heads over to some bushes and begins to relieve himself, but he disturbs a rattlesnake. The startled snake coils and strikes, biting him on the (filter proof word) peanuts. He yells for Joe, who runs over to help, and seeing his friend in dire straights, tells him to lay down so the poison does not spread any faster. Joe runs back to the truck to the CB radio and calls for the Doc. Luckily Doc is by the radio, and once informed of the situation, tells Joe what to do. Bill is mighty worried by now, Joe yells back that he has the doc on the radio, and he is getting instructions. Doc tells Joe to take a knife, and make two small x-shaped incisions over the fang marks. Joe says he can do that. Then Doc says to suck out the poison from the wound, and spit it out, then put a bandage over it, and get him to town quick as possible, cause it is the only way he will make it. Joe walks over to Bill, laying there, Bill asks what Doc said. Joe replies, "Doc says your gonna die Bill, sorry."
Huan 05-26-05, 07:55 AM	Perhaps we can limit prebuff spells to only defensive ones, rather than offensive?
Zerone 05-26-05, 08:56 AM	Are the Pitlords supposed to inform you of your location before the fight, before tactics are sent? I haven't pitlorded a new arena fight yet, not too sure of all the changes, and I couldn't find them... Thanks, *•. Z
Zerone 05-26-05, 10:28 AM	If I create an ECL 6 character, what do they receive for xp and gp? Basically, do I get extra xp to spend as I would for starting an ECL 3 character (they receive 200 extra xp to use)? Z
Caterane 05-26-05, 10:57 AM	@Zerone: See FAQ: Races and Classes (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5222231) - How many xp and gp does my newly created character get. The players are supposed to tell you where they want to start.
Jindl 05-26-05, 11:45 AM	@Cat/Zero - I think Zero meant that he wanted to know if the pitlord is supposed to let the players know which starting box thier pc will begin in. And then, as Cat said, the player would list the starting position within that box for their pc as part of their tactics. -Jindl
Jindl 05-26-05, 11:58 AM	Perhaps we can limit prebuff spells to only defensive ones, rather than offensive? The purpose behind allowing prebuffs (and the 16 hour time limit) was to allow gladiators to begin fights with effects running that they would normally have running when adventuring all day. Since the adventuring day is 16 hours long, any effect with a duration of 16 hours could be prebuffed. Holding the charge of touch spells was disallowed because if the adventurer was doing that for several hours, they would be unable to adventure (because they couldn't touch anything without discharging the spell). There are many offensive prebuffs that should be, and are allowed. Greater Magic Fang, Greater Magic Weapon, and Wildshape are just a few examples. Examples of allowed defensive prebuffs include Mage Armor, Magic Vestment, Deeper Darkness, and Protection from Arrows. There are also some prebuffs that are utility spells, like Phantasmal Steed and Longstrider. Of course, all of these effects only qualify as a prebuff if their duration is 16 hours or longer. As far as dissolving weapon is concerned, though it is similar to holding the charge of a touch spell, it doesn't prevent the adventurer from adventuring, since he can still touch things without discharging the spell. In effect, it is much more like a Contingency spell which is set to trigger when he successfully attacks. Based upon how it is used, I do think dissolving weapon is an allowable prebuff. Now that we've gone through the reasoning behind allowing prebuffs, let me repeat a suggestion that I've made in the past: We should allow prebuffs of multiple uses of the same spell/effect with a total duration of 16 hours. A 4th level wizard may travel under the effects of mage armor all day long, if he is willing to devote 3 of his 1st level spell slots to the spell. An 8th level druid can easily travel in wildshape all day long by using 2 of his daily uses of wildshape ability. I think allowing multiple castings with a total duration of 16 hours as prebuffs would be much more similar to real adventurers. And it opens up some prebuffs that currently aren't possible, such as multiple castings of the 10 min/lvl spells. What does everyone else think? -Jindl
Caterane 05-26-05, 12:16 PM	@Jindl: The 1/3 rule means that 2/3 of your spells are being used in other encounters that day, or used to cast knock or similar 'tool' spells. Cutting the wizard's power is another reason. Prebuffed spells do not count against the available spell levels in a fight. That means, you can easily prebuff with all of your 2/3 un-used part so that you can gain additional benefits in the fight. I would spend all my unused 3rd and 4th level spells - which are useless to me in the arena anyway - to prebuff with Heroism. In a campaign however, no one would spend all his 3rd and 4th level spells just to have Heroism running all day. No wizard memorizes 10 Heroisms a day. The 2/3 spells which are supposed to be "useless" in an arena fight (with the exception of 16 hour spells) for reasons mentioned in the beginning of this post, are suddenly usefull again. That's why this rule is not a good idea. One exception could be an "at will" ability which can indeed be renewed anytime. This would have to be discussed first.
Jindl 05-26-05, 12:44 PM	@Cat - The simple solution is to let casters use 1/3rd of their remaining spell slots after casting prebuffs. So if you were to spend several higher level slots on multiple castings of a prebuff, then your pc would have less spell slots available for the fight. I think this more accurately reflects a real adventurer as well, since the other 2/3rd of spells that are being used in other encounters shouldn't include the all day prebuffs, they should be calculated after subtracting the all day prebuffs. -Jindl
King Uther 05-26-05, 01:00 PM	From the way I understand credits, I should have more. If you get 2 for running a Miniquest in a separate thread, I should have: +2 Mini-Quest for Gareth +3 Mini-Quest for Nyte and Shadow +2 Mini-Quest Barak +2 Mini-Quest Va'ria +2 Quest Sokai +3 Quest Nyte and Shadow +2 Quest Sokai +3 Quest Nyte and Shadow +1 Mini-Quest Indri For 20 credits. Now, the rules say you need to have at least as many fights as you do active characters, but it doesn't say you get them subtracted from your credits unless you don't have the before mentioned fights. But even with those 2 credits each week deducted, I should still have 14. Maybe I don't understand the system.
Caterane 05-26-05, 01:27 PM	@Jindl: But that is almost impossible to do. If we calculate the available spell slots after the 16 hour prebuffs then you would have to recalculate them every fight. This makes it much more complicated. The system as it is now is close enough. As for allowing to prebuff with stackable spells from your 1/3 spell-levels, there is one the one hand the (small) problem of tracking it (would have to be mentioned in the prebuff section, like used 10 spell levels to enter with heroism), and on the other hand would it allow to use cheap scrolls to prebuff without having to spend spell slots. The CoCo is already too item focused IMO. That just makes it worse. @Uther: Seems like I don't understand the Credit System LOL Yes, seperate thread miniquests 2°, multiplayer quests +1° per player. I'll give you the creds for your great work. @English guys: Why do you describe something great as being "awesome"? "Aweinspiring", okay, but awesome?
Salzorin 05-26-05, 02:03 PM	@Caterane: Because, while the original use of awesome is as an adjective to describe an item or even that would inspire awe in someone, the use of the term was trivialized over time and eventually made into slang to signify something that is remarkable or amazing.
Sindorin 05-26-05, 02:38 PM	I think prebuffs should be outside the 1/3 rule because they would be in effect whenever the character needs them, whereas the 1/3 rule was integrated with the thought in mind that the caster/manifester needed to protect his/herself outside the arena match. Since they last the majority of the day they should not count against the 1/3 rule. I know it sounds abusable, but it definitely makes sense according to the explanation of the 1/3 rule.
Sindorin 05-26-05, 02:46 PM	Sindorin's Silly Questions: Since Shocking Grasp has a duration of Instantaneous, how long can a familiar hold a charge of it (for delivering)?
Jindl 05-26-05, 03:33 PM	Sindorin's Silly Questions: Since Shocking Grasp has a duration of Instantaneous, how long can a familiar hold a charge of it (for delivering)? As long as necessary. The touch is not discharged until the familiar hits an appropriate target. That's why we had to disallow held touch spells as prebuffs, because otherwise the caster (or familiar) could hold the charge indefinately. -Jindl
Sindorin 05-26-05, 03:41 PM	Yes, that does make sense.
Megrim_Lord 05-26-05, 03:48 PM	As long as necessary. The touch is not discharged until the familiar hits an appropriate target. That's why we had to disallow held touch spells as prebuffs, because otherwise the caster (or familiar) could hold the charge indefinately. -Jindl wait... a familiar can't hold Shocking Grasp, read the spell. The range coincides with the target, the duration is instantaneous and the text implies that the touch is part of the spell, ergo if you touched your familiar with shocking grasp you just succeed in killing it. it says nothing about the spell staying held, it isn't the same as say, dissolving touch, or dissolving weapon Quoth the SRD Shocking Grasp Evocation [Electricity] Level: Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Creature or object touched Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes Your successful melee touch attack deals 1d6 points of electricity damage per caster level (maximum 5d6). When delivering the jolt, you gain a +3 bonus on attack rolls if the opponent is wearing metal armor (or made out of metal, carrying a lot of metal, or the like).
Zyme86 05-26-05, 03:52 PM	But you can channel touch spells though your familiar
Jindl 05-26-05, 03:53 PM	wait... a familiar can't hold Shocking Grasp, read the spell. The range coincides with the target, the duration is instantaneous and the text implies that the touch is part of the spell, ergo if you touched your familiar with shocking grasp you just succeed in killing it. it says nothing about the spell staying held, it isn't the same as say, dissolving touch, or dissolving weapon Sorry, we should have specifically mentioned that the familiar was using its 3rd level ability to deliver touch spells for its master. -Jindl
Megrim_Lord 05-26-05, 03:54 PM	yes but the familiar can't actually HOLD the shocking grasp spell, there is a slight difference
King Uther 05-26-05, 04:40 PM	Awesome is over-used, so much so that inspiring awe is apparently quite easy. But then again the English language has trouble expressing certain things, such as the many facets of love. After all, English actually only has 1 word for love, while it has 4 words for pancake.......clearly we have our language priorities in the right place. By the way, I love pancakes, flapjacks, hotcakes, and silver dollar cakes.
Salzorin 05-26-05, 05:01 PM	<3 Pancakes
SoulLord 05-26-05, 06:22 PM	some races besides the level adjustment also have character levels that must usually be taken. Can we take a race adjust the corresponding level adjustment and forget about the race levels? or must we take them as well?
Jindl 05-26-05, 06:25 PM	@SoulLord - You have to take any necessary racial HD as well. Also note that if the race allows advancement by racial HD, then you can advance with racial HD or class levels. -Jindl
bgt 05-26-05, 06:34 PM	I have a question about non-core material. I was thinking about acquiring a shocker lizard for Brogan. The Arms and Equipment Guide gives the cost of a shocker lizard egg. I'm wondering if I could simply buy an egg and wait for it to hatch instead of going on a quest to catch one of the little buggers. Would this be allowed, or am I doomed to go rummaging through some bushes for a few weeks?
Jindl 05-26-05, 06:40 PM	I have a question about non-core material. I was thinking about acquiring a shocker lizard for Brogan. The Arms and Equipment Guide gives the cost of a shocker lizard egg. I'm wondering if I could simply buy an egg and wait for it to hatch instead of going on a quest to catch one of the little buggers. Would this be allowed, or am I doomed to go rummaging through some bushes for a few weeks? Sorry, but we're Core only. I think you can still get that shocker lizard with a few ranks of Handle Animal and a miniquest (which is only 1 week). Or if you're a mage you can take Improved Familiar to get one. BTW: You should repost here in the tavern your message to Rim-Soulfang. We don't have any discussions occuring on the Gladiators thread. And just in case nobody else has said it: Welcome to the CoCo !! -Jindl
bgt 05-26-05, 07:20 PM	Rim-Soulfang fixed his charachter; I changed the post into a reserved spot. Sorry, I didn't know I should have posted it here. Still on the shocker lizards: How do I go on miniquest? Also, can I hire someone to train the lizards for me? Thanks for your help.
King Uther 05-26-05, 07:39 PM	PM me or another Questlord. Then if I accept, PM the Pitlords telling them you are going on a quest with a certain character. Then it depends on the quest type. If it's too easy to do otherwise it's ran as an arena fight. If not, then a separate thread will come out and you'll post your round-by-round actions. It's really rather easy and plenty of fun.
Jindl 05-26-05, 08:32 PM	Still on the shocker lizards: How do I go on miniquest? Also, can I hire someone to train the lizards for me? Thanks for your help. I'm going to refer you to the FAQ, Table of Contents. Check the sections on Cohorts and Allies, and NPC services. ;) -Jindl
bgt 05-26-05, 09:43 PM	Wow...I somehow never noticed that FAQ...thanks...
LLMadCow 05-26-05, 11:53 PM	Okay, the call is going out. I would like some assistance on getting up to speed.... Here is where I am and what is going on for any of those who want to know what is going on. I have been reading the FAQ and, for the most part, I feel that I about ready to jump back into play. However, I would polietly ask that anyone who has some free time take a quick glance at my characters and let me know if any recent changes have impacted my PCs and require changes. Thanks! Until further notice, I am afraid that I am going to be unable to run any fights. I have managed to work at the only airport in the entire country that has a constant staffing issue and never has enough employees! Long-story-short, if people are not volunteering for overtime, others will be denied their breaks and then they will follow up with mandantory overtime. So, many of us are just doing what we can to lend a hand, make some extra money and work as a team. As far as my characters go, I am going to stick to playing two per week. If anyone has a genuine preferance, I will enlist those PCs. Otherwise, I will take some time to choose. I do hope that there are enough people to run what fights there are. I want to be able to participate in the rest of the arena and offer advice and input, but I do not want to find myself ever neglecting fights due to conflicts with work. So, I genuinely feel that it is better to refrain from overcommitmitting myself and play it safe. This way, when my work calls on me, I can do what needs to be done. Lastly, I need to have my e-mail address changed. I will send the message to the PitLords, but for those of you who read this, take note that whatevr e-address you have for me will need to be updated shortly.....
Megrim_Lord 05-27-05, 07:04 PM	just thought I'd let everyone know I'm open to taking quests both short and long. if anyone has saturday off I'll be free all day so I could take a big bite out of a long quest and quite easily finish a short one or two
Megrim_Lord 05-27-05, 07:11 PM	question: is borrowing credits from other players allowed and if so can I hit anyone up for a few with a guarantee of full return +2 more?
King Uther 05-28-05, 12:46 AM	If it's allowed you can borrow some of mine. I won't be using mine until I save up a lot more......
King Uther 05-28-05, 12:51 AM	And on another note, I am looking for genuine heroes, the kind of characters that will do anythig for the cause of good. There is something dreadful going on in the bowls of Gladius. It all starts with a Mini-Quest open to anyone willing to take on an EL 11 with a few other players, followed by a campaign (in theory with completely different characters) that will inspect where it came from. This is an opportunity to become a legend. Or a corpse.
Caterane 05-28-05, 05:10 AM	@LLMadCow: It's probably the best if you read through certain sections of the FAQ again. Most importantly the FAQ: Arena Combat (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5222369), Quests (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5660571) and - even though it's silvered out and not finished - Campaigns (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5660576). We also changed the way ally penalties are being handled and calculated. See FAQ: Allies (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5222449). And finally, you may want to read the FAQ: NPC Services (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5660668) in case you haven't heard about the Blackmarket. And welcome back! :)
Megrim_Lord 05-28-05, 09:55 AM	If it's allowed you can borrow some of mine. I won't be using mine until I save up a lot more...... something nasty in the works? :devil: well on the upside of that I'd owe you two long quests worth of credits so you could pump it out of me that way
King Uther 05-28-05, 11:25 AM	That sounds fun. On another note, these are the characters on the Mini-Quest to become the "Heroes of Jindl Park," and possibly the campaign: Luken Laph Ceres Any other heroes out there?
Caterane 05-28-05, 11:59 AM	@all: PLEASE READ!! Dilligent as I am :D I've completed the FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5221608) for both Campaigns and Campaignlording. That also means Campaigns are now officially enabled! Please take a look at it because they are very different from a Quest. This is perhaps the most important addition to the CoCo. The Real Adventures board is flooding over with people who want to go adventuring. What this board lacks however is a system where all these player characters are incorporated into one and the same world with visible rankings and powerlevels, like our Roster (don't get me wrong; I like the RA board. I just think we're now filling an important gap). While the CoCo filled a very specific niche, Quests and now Campaigns, expand this board beyond its borders. Perhaps I'm a bit too enthusiastic but I am sure many people throughout the wizards boards would be interested in going on campaigns with their characters being a statistically fixed part of the world (roster). Now we just have to make it public anyhow. If you have any idea on how to do that, please tell me or try it out. Tell your friends, your family, your pets, everyone. We also have to see how Campaigns work and interact with the system. Therefore we need Campaignlords, and players who want to send their characters on a campaign. Please note that this costs an initial fee of 5° but that should be attainable within 2-3 weeks if you pitlord fights or sooner if you run a Quest. King Uther and Kaigan have already stated their interest in running a Campaign. If there's anyone else interested, please tell me. Read the Campaignlording FAQ and prepare the campaign. Oh and please tell me your thoughts about it!
Jindl 05-28-05, 12:15 PM	That sounds fun. On another note, these are the characters on the Mini-Quest to become the "Heroes of Jindl Park," and possibly the campaign: Luken Laph Ceres Any other heroes out there? It wouldn't be Jindl park if I wasn't there, would it? So include Jindl of the High Forest. -Jindl
Megrim_Lord 05-28-05, 12:33 PM	@ Cat: if you want to attract attention, post messages with links on the D&D general, RPG gamer classifieds and definitely the Character Optimization boards
Malither76 05-28-05, 02:17 PM	Gareth Irontower will go with these brave heros to smite the evil coming out of the cave in the forest.
Megrim_Lord 05-28-05, 03:41 PM	I'm looking for a gang of 3 high level gladiators to take on a long EL 10 quest to thwart an illithid cult rising to power in the catacombs under Gladius, pm me if interested
King Uther 05-29-05, 04:14 AM	5 of 6 have been recruited as heroes. One spot remains for those who stand in the face of evil. Luken Laph Ceres Jindl Gareth Who else has the bravery needed for a heroes battle? Please do not take this lightly. If you do, death will follow.
Sindorin 05-29-05, 04:16 AM	The group needs a healer of some sort... are there no good clerics to accompany them into the depths of hell itself? Heh, speaking of taking this lightly, I probably should take a look at Ceres' sheet... it's been like a month since I did last.
Malither76 05-29-05, 04:29 AM	The only healer I know of is Cedric, he is EL 4
Sindorin 05-29-05, 04:38 AM	True... our party is pretty well-rounded despite lacking a dedicated healer...
Malither76 05-29-05, 04:43 AM	I think so, so what is the deal with this are we able to discuss possible tactics now, how much info do we know about the devil anyone?
King Uther 05-29-05, 04:46 AM	A decent level cleric would be helpful though. Especially for the campaign. Imagine 3-5 months of playing without a healer.
Sindorin 05-29-05, 04:46 AM	That's probably going to be up to KU.
Pittbull 05-29-05, 05:54 AM	I think so, so what is the deal with this are we able to discuss possible tactics now, how much info do we know about the devil anyone? Yes, that's very important, if we know something about this evil demon, we can adjust our equipment for him. I'm thinking of outsider-bane arrows and oils of align weapon,....
Zerone 05-29-05, 09:44 AM	I was thinking of putting together a Mystic Theurge. This character could be created and join the quest, if you think that it would be enough healing. Also, would this count towards an 'active character' in the CoCo? *•. Z
Arstimis 05-29-05, 10:19 AM	Why does this always happen to me, gah! I was told I wouldnt have to work this weekend, because someone else was coming in. But guess what, that person calls in sick and I have to come for the weekend. It sucks..and I sit behind computers all day, but all the ones i sit behind are broken. my job is to fix them. So i wont get the chance at all to do this fight I guess I'll have to ask someone to take this from me as well I'm very sorry, I guess I should also be assigned zero fights for the next few weeks, because the same thing will probably end up happening
cellardweller 05-29-05, 11:28 AM	Is anyone other than Pitbull running AOL's funky custom browser? If so have you managed to get the ally calculator working on that platform?
Zerone 05-29-05, 01:43 PM	Ways of earning credits You audit character sheets. Every 10 levels audited is worth 1°. How do I go about earning credits in this fashion? Do I need to ok it with Pitlords as to which character, etc.? *•. Z
Pittbull 05-29-05, 02:06 PM	Why does this always happen to me, gah! I was told I wouldnt have to work this weekend, because someone else was coming in. But guess what, that person calls in sick and I have to come for the weekend. It sucks..and I sit behind computers all day, but all the ones i sit behind are broken. my job is to fix them. So i wont get the chance at all to do this fight I guess I'll have to ask someone to take this from me as well I'm very sorry, I guess I should also be assigned zero fights for the next few weeks, because the same thing will probably end up happening Ok, send it to me! Cellar got so much work with my fight, he deserves no delay on his own one. I will do it tomorrow during work!
Sindorin 05-29-05, 02:20 PM	How do I go about earning credits in this fashion? Do I need to ok it with Pitlords as to which character, etc.? *•. Z Post character audits in the Character Violations Thread. 2 level 5 pc's will net a credit.
Malither76 05-29-05, 04:38 PM	New FAQ update for 3.5 is out, only thing major is the use of spectral hand, you can not cast scrolls and use spectral hand, only spells cast from memory can go through the hand, that hurts some casters.
Jindl 05-29-05, 05:04 PM	@King Uther - For the miniquest in Jindl Park, I would suggest limiting it to 4-5 PC's of 6th level or higher. Having more than 4-5 characters will greatly slow down response times in posting a play by post fight. And I don't want this miniquest to be decided by emailing tactics in. Also, its already questionable whether ECL6 and ECL7 characters can handle a CR 11 Barbed Devil. Allowing lower level PC's is pretty much just inviting them to their own funeral. Since some players are trying to plan ahead for the opponent, please be clear on what, if any, foreknowledge we have about the upcoming fight. Do we know its a barbed devil? Do we know anything about barbed devils? Do we know if it is still in the cave, or is it roaming around the park? Etc. Finally, I think we should understand what brought our characters together in this. Laph and JotHF are easily explained, since they are good friends and spend considerable time in Jindl Park. Laph may have requested help from the other good aligned gladiators of our ranking, which could explain the other heroes who are involved. Whatever the case, please let us know. -Jindl
bgt 05-29-05, 05:14 PM	New FAQ update for 3.5 is out, only thing major is the use of spectral hand, you can not cast scrolls and use spectral hand, only spells cast from memory can go through the hand, that hurts some casters. I weep.
Caterane 05-29-05, 05:57 PM	The maximum number of players for a quest is 4. This is to ensure that it progresses at a good pace. This Quest empties half the highlevel roster which is spread thin anyway. If the Quest will take more time - and this will be the case with 5+ characters, then we might miss many key characters for more than a month. Then, it is normally not granted that the players know their opponoment on a quest. It's ok if you say it will be in a cave but any additional information should be found out by the players AFTER the quest has started, not before. Any information about the Quest must be attained ingame. That's where social skills come in handy. And finally, this cannot be a miniquest (FAQ: Quests (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5660571)). Finally, you may only go on a MiniQuest of an Encounter Level (EL) no more than 2 less than your Effective Character Level (ECL). The normal - the real - Quests are the regular 3-week Quests. Miniquests are only there so that those who do not pitlord have a way to get a leadership cohort or an animal companion. It is something like an "emergency quest" and should be not the dominant type of Quest. Miniquests are also not meant to replace arena fights. There are 7 types (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5222369) of arena fights which all provide new and interesting battles, yet not one has been used. If you want to fight a <whatever>, write into the headline that you want a "Monster fight: EL 11". It will be picked randomly though but I don't think you have your heart on the Barbed Devil anyway.
Caterane 05-29-05, 06:06 PM	@Zerone: Auditing is a complete check-up of a character. You begin by looking for violations on the current version of the sheet, followed by comparing every fight with the past expenditure list and how many xp/gp he got, and report any inconsistancies. Check if the character has swapped out anything. If he has deducted the correct xp and gp for crafted items. And so on. Once you're done post it in the violations thread.
Arstimis 05-29-05, 11:00 PM	Ok, send it to me! Cellar got so much work with my fight, he deserves no delay on his own one. I will do it tomorrow during work!Pittbull tactics now via email. thank you very much
Malither76 05-30-05, 04:13 AM	so does this mean we are not doing the quest then, I need to know b/c Huan is going to run a real quest for Gareth and Cedric, I thought this was going to be a mini quest but if not I'm out, must avenge my masters death and regain his sword :), so Huan if your still up for it we should be good to go this week, Snommelp I think is his screen name said he would be back and was game so if you want to set it up lets do it, pm me if there are problems thanks.
SoulLord 05-30-05, 12:21 PM	Seeing that it comes up frequently. some tactics are easier to run and some other are easier to mess up. How do you like the tactics sent to run a fight better. 1.-general strategy + contingencies? 2.-manouvers round by round with failsafes? 3.- other? Also it seems that some tactics generate more problems than others, what do 1.-you think are the tactics that cause the most trouble? 2.-How do you usually run them?
Iced 05-30-05, 01:21 PM	Due to widespread curiosity as to where I found a "blooded orc" here goes: Orc: Page 146 in my monster manual Blooded(Template): Page 61 of The Unapproachable East Forgotten Realms Supplement.(Has a LA of +1) If there's any additional information that anyone wants, i'll be happy to provide it.
Jindl 05-30-05, 01:45 PM	Due to widespread curiosity as to where I found a "blooded orc" here goes: Orc: Page 146 in my monster manual Blooded(Template): Page 61 of The Unapproachable East Forgotten Realms Supplement.(Has a LA of +1) If there's any additional information that anyone wants, i'll be happy to provide it. Unfortunately, the Blooded template isn't Core material. Sorry :( -Jindl
Meek Head 05-30-05, 02:37 PM	How do I figure out what creatures I can tame with my Handle Animal skill to bring into a fight? Does it go by CR, Handle Animal skill, HD, or something else? When a paladin gets their Paladin's Mount does this count against the number of 'blank' they are allowed to bring into the fight? Thanks.
Jindl 05-30-05, 02:53 PM	How do I figure out what creatures I can tame with my Handle Animal skill to bring into a fight? Does it go by CR, Handle Animal skill, HD, or something else? When a paladin gets their Paladin's Mount does this count against the number of 'blank' they are allowed to bring into the fight? Thanks. Both questions can be answered here in the FAQ. :D -Jindl
Iced 05-30-05, 03:08 PM	@Jindi~Well can I sill use my character? There are several characters in the CoCo already with templates added or belonging to non-standard races.
Jindl 05-30-05, 03:15 PM	@Jindi~Well can I sill use my character? There are several characters in the CoCo already with templates added or belonging to non-standard races. If you select a Core template, then by all means. Perhaps the Fiendish or Phrenic templates would work for you. But since the Blooded template isn't Core, it isn't allowed. -Jindl
Iced 05-30-05, 03:31 PM	I'll look into that. I have to re-think my ideas...
Snommelp 05-30-05, 04:46 PM	Sorry, guys, but it looks like I'm going to be pulling out of the CoCo permanently. I may stop in occasionally for advice on the core rules, but I will no longer be an active participant. I would also, if Caterane is willing, like to offer up my three active characters as the first members of the Mercenary's guild.
bgt 05-30-05, 06:14 PM	mispost
Caterane 05-30-05, 06:24 PM	In the event that my fight with Hagrid II is extended, I would like to forfeit. My last fight was extended, and the concept of only getting two fights this month is rather boring. I would much rather go after some shocker lizards than spending this week waiting for the fight to finish. This brings up a question, though. If I forfeit a fight, do I get the gold and XP for losing? More importantly, will Hagrid get the XP for winning? I would hate to see this last week be a complete waste for him on my account. I sent a PM to Pittbull letting him know of my intentions, and asking him if he would consider leting this fight be a draw(would that be +600 gp/xp for both of us?). Sorry that I retrieved your post but with the deadline less than 8 hours away you might be right about the fight being late. Haven't read from Zyme the whole week. There's no need to forfeit though. Bgt and Pittbull, send tactics to me. I'll take over. Excpect it to be up tomorow (tuesday) noon.
Megrim_Lord 05-30-05, 06:24 PM	I'm looking for a gang of 3 high level gladiators to take on a long EL 10 quest to thwart an illithid cult rising to power in the catacombs under Gladius, pm me if interested Brainless bodies are piling up! don't let this go unchecked or you may find yourselfs slaves to squidfaced masters!
SoulLord 05-30-05, 07:02 PM	Quick question if for example I use one of the central pillars or another such obstacle for cover and then hide. Does losing the cover relative to the observer (the enemy walked around, cover was removed) and thus the enemy having now LOS, makes the spot check automatic?
Cerebus13 05-30-05, 07:04 PM	Quick question if for example I use one of the central pillars or another such obstacle for cover and then hide. Does losing the cover relative to the observer (the enemy walked around, cover was removed) and thus the enemy having now LOS, makes the spot check automatic?Correct, not having cover or concealment means you can't perform a Hide check...and thus they would automatically spot you. Means of producing artificial concealment/cover are good tools for rogues, because just hiding behind obstacles is easily overcome by people with high movement.
SoulLord 05-30-05, 07:13 PM	Ok thanks. Now i know what i need for my next match.... A CardBoard Box!! http://www.gamecritics.com/feature/preview/mgs2add/screen13.jpg :)
Salzorin 05-30-05, 07:52 PM	and NOW you know why snake always used the box... it's amazing where real life (video game) applications of D&D rules come up....
Zerone 05-30-05, 08:39 PM	Now you know, and knowing is half the battle... :rimshot:
Jindl 05-30-05, 11:47 PM	@Megrim Lord - It sounds like an interesting quest, but at this point the highest level gladiators are ECL7 and already committed to the barbed devil hunt. Perhaps after that quest is resolved (or cancelled), then you'll find more willing participants. I'm sure Anna would be interested, if she succeeds on her current quest to once again become the Ghost of the Arena (and ECL8). -Jindl
Malither76 05-31-05, 12:37 AM	Well this is all pending on what King Uther is going to do about the Devil and if Huan still is willing to run, but Gareth is going to go on a quest to avenge his masters death and retrieve his former masters weapon, does anyone feel like going along will be a regular 3 week quest of around ECL 7-9 I think, so send me a pm or just reply here and we will see what happens
Pittbull 05-31-05, 03:58 AM	I'm planning to make a Hound-Archon-build* or Bralani-build to face Cat's Incubus ;) . *He gets a juvenile bronze dragon for free (no quest, no XP-penalty in fights), when he reaches level five of Paladin?
Caterane 05-31-05, 07:57 AM	I'm planning to make a Hound-Archon-build* or Bralani-build to face Cat's Incubus ;) . Wait until you see the picture I got for him (stupid homepage crashed; should be working again tomorow though). Yeah go for them; even though Jindl thinks high LA creatures are worthless (ye olde fun spoiler!!) there are enough ways to make good builds out of them. The best thing however is that they are a LOT of fun to play! And they should shine even more in Quests and Campaigns.
Zerone 05-31-05, 08:36 AM	Maximum CA: The maximum CA a gladiator may bring into each fight is equal to his ECL-2, and no individual ally may have an Aecl>ECL-2 or an Acr>max(ECL-4,1). Explanation: What does Aecl>ECL-2 mean? If all of your Allies have an ECL (ECL=LA+HD), then you should simply add their ECLs together. The result must be at least 2 less than your own ECL. So, for example, our ECL 10 cleric could have a single ECL 8 cohort, or two ECL 3 and one ECL 2 ally, or any other combination adding up to 8 (his ECL-2). That is meant by Aecl>ECL-2. Explanation: What does Acr>max(ECL-4,1) mean? If your Allies do not have a LA, then you need to use their CR to calculate your ally limit. Your Ally's CR must be 4 lower than your ECL. This rule does not count for allies of CR 1 or lower. That is meant by Acr>max(ECL-4,1). Uhhh... why at 6th level can one have an ECL 4 (CR 4) Cohort or an ECL ??? (CR 2) Ally? This does not add up. You should be allowed ECL or CR -2, whether it be for Cohort or Allies. This means that you cannot have a Light Warhorse till 5th level...? (just figured out the CR 1, but a Heavy Warhorse is not an ECL 4, it is an ECL 3/CR 2 Animal - ECL 3. But I cannot have one till ECL 6? Can anyone explain this? It does not make sense... *•. Z
Caterane 05-31-05, 08:44 AM	Acr>max(ECL-4,1) A light warhorse has CR 1 so it's ok even for a lvl 3 character
Luni 05-31-05, 08:54 AM	I know summoned creatures can be warded by Prot from Evil potions. But, couldn't summoned creatures be used to assist another in combat? The rules are kind of vague in this regard unfortunately. From the SRD: AID ANOTHER In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you’re in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent’s next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack. You can also use this standard action to help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell, or to assist another character’s skill check.
Jindl 05-31-05, 09:32 AM	Yeah go for them; even though Jindl thinks high LA creatures are worthless (ye olde fun spoiler!!) there are enough ways to make good builds out of them. The best thing however is that they are a LOT of fun to play! And they should shine even more in Quests and Campaigns. Not worthless, just really difficult to play. Definately something I wouldn't recommend to most players. Of course, both Pittbull and Caterane aren't *most players*. -Jindl
Jindl 05-31-05, 09:37 AM	Uhhh... why at 6th level can one have an ECL 4 (CR 4) Cohort or an ECL ??? (CR 2) Ally? This does not add up. You should be allowed ECL or CR -2, whether it be for Cohort or Allies. This means that you cannot have a Light Warhorse till 5th level...? (just figured out the CR 1, but a Heavy Warhorse is not an ECL 4, it is an ECL 3/CR 2 Animal - ECL 3. But I cannot have one till ECL 6? Can anyone explain this? It does not make sense... *•. Z Don't confuse ECL and CR. A heavy warhorse has no ECL, it is simply a CR2 creature. Only playable races have ECL's. As for whether its just to withhold the heavy warhorse until ECL6, well it may not be a good mirror of most campaigns, but neither are CoCo warhorses who are always with their rider and miraculously heal themselves (even returning from the dead) after each battle. A heavy warhorse can steal the fight at lower ECL's, as surely as Ixenthor's bronze griffon can steal the fight at his ECL (I still think you got an overpowered quest item there, Caterane :(). -Jindl
Pittbull 05-31-05, 11:15 AM	Bartleby (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5203491&postcount=165) is my ultimative long-time project he needs 40 credits to be build. It wasn't possible to build him with the old CoCo-Rules, but now it is. He's far away of being finished, but it'll take some time until league 13 opens (months!!!!). Please take a look over him and give me advice, how I can improve him. Thanks a lot! How many XP do you have in this level for crafting magic items?
Jindl 05-31-05, 11:21 AM	@Pittbull - Looks fine (although why not start the character now and "evolve" him into an astral deva later?) There is a mistake on the polymorph any object. It can't duplicate shapechange, which means that it can't grant supernatural abilities. So you need to remove the supernatural abilities from the angel traits. Check the Rules of the Game - Polymorphing for more info. -Jindl
Pittbull 05-31-05, 11:25 AM	@Pittbull - (1)Looks fine (although why not start the character now and "evolve" him into an astral deva later?) (2)There is a mistake on the polymorph any object. It can't duplicate shapechange, which means that it can't grant supernatural abilities. So you need to remove the supernatural abilities from the angel traits. Check the Rules of the Game - Polymorphing for more info. -Jindl (1) I think a venerable old Aasimar won't survive very long! (2) Yes I know ,but I thought you receive the traits of the new race. Like polymorph into a fire-giant, you get immunity against fire, but vulnerability against cold?
Caterane 05-31-05, 11:40 AM	Neither will he at level 12. One two dispel magix or an AM field and even Laph's little sister's familiar's toy doll grapples him down. Why not make him a bralani. That's 1 ECL less, you gain all the nice abilities, and won't have to fear the dispel. Btw, I'm not sure if the age statistics wouldn't apply to the new form too.
Jindl 05-31-05, 11:41 AM	(1) I think a venerable old Aasimar won't survive very long! (2) Yes I know ,but I thought you receive the traits of the new race. Like polymorph into a fire-giant, you get immunity against fire, but vulnerability against cold? 1. Is it really worth 40 credits to make him venerable? -6 to 3 ability scores < +3 to 3 ability scores (keep in mind that polymorph effects preserve physical age when changing forms, although I'm not sure how that would affect an outsider, since they don't age). An old aasimar cleric isn't much different than an old grey elven mage, and we have a couple of very successful examples of that. 2. It is much too detailed for me to go into a full explanation. Suffice it to say that you never get supernatural abilities unless you cast shapechange, use elemental wildshape, or utilize a psionic feat called metamorphic transfer. You never gain spell-like abilities. As for all of the extraordinary abilities (whether special attacks or special qualities), it really depends, and that's why you need to read the Rules of the Game - Polymorphing. -Jindl
SoulLord 05-31-05, 11:55 AM	Quick question in the new map where can one get concealment?
Jindl 05-31-05, 12:41 PM	Quick question in the new map where can one get concealment? There is no terrain provided concealment, only cover and total cover.
SoulLord 05-31-05, 12:47 PM	Yikes .... but we need our cover..... maybe switch some pillars for bushes? Any plans to add some areas that provide concealment in the future? Bushes, high grass, fog, etc.
Jindl 05-31-05, 12:51 PM	Yikes .... but we need our cover..... maybe switch some pillars for bushes? Any plans to add some areas that provide concealment in the future? Bushes, high grass, fog, etc. Why do you need concealment from the terrain?
SoulLord 05-31-05, 01:13 PM	To be able to hide. If i use Cover to hide then just walking around whatever grants me cover is enough to spot a hiding character automatically. But if i am in a square that grants concealment (bushes, fog, etc.) then just walking around it is not enough to get Line of Sight; so no automatically spotting a hiding character just by walking around.
Sindorin 05-31-05, 01:45 PM	Plans have been mentioned about adding several new arenas, instead of just the main one that has been altered over time. I guess whatever one used would be agreed upon by the gladiators. I imagine that one of them, or perhaps all, will have exactly what you have in mind. That, or there have been talks of adding shadows and perhaps fog to every arena. I personally am not looking forward to the pitlording nightmares that await.
Megrim_Lord 05-31-05, 03:04 PM	@Megrim Lord - It sounds like an interesting quest, but at this point the highest level gladiators are ECL7 and already committed to the barbed devil hunt. Perhaps after that quest is resolved (or cancelled), then you'll find more willing participants. I'm sure Anna would be interested, if she succeeds on her current quest to once again become the Ghost of the Arena (and ECL8). -Jindl I've calculated the quest for ECL 6 characters, who should be able to overcome the odds provided they fight smart, plus 8000+ xp and 5800 gp apiece should sound like enough incentive shouldn't it :D??
King Uther 05-31-05, 03:38 PM	Well, since only 4 characters are allowed, then I guess Gareth goes since he has another quest to do. Since it cannot be a mini-quest, which is what I was hoping, it will become a 4-player long quest, if you all are still willing. It will be difficult, though, but you will be compensated substantially. According to the FAQ, 30,000gp is the standard for a quest of that sort. But I would think it would be quite difficult to do this. Essentially, it is up to you all. I would love to run the quest, since it is necessary to introduce the campaign. But if you do not feel you are up to it, either because of difficulty or the 3-week part, then that is fine. Finally, I hope you all want to, for this is going to be very challenging but very fun. Good luck to all. Luken Laph Ceres Jindl These will be the "Heroes of Jindl Park."
Sindorin 05-31-05, 03:58 PM	I am a bit worried about facing such a beast, but perhaps we will be able to take the devil down. Will Ceres be able to bring his pegasus since it is not an arena fight, or do the same ally rules apply as in the arena?
SoulLord 05-31-05, 04:01 PM	Plans have been mentioned about adding several new arenas, instead of just the main one that has been altered over time. I guess whatever one used would be agreed upon by the gladiators. I imagine that one of them, or perhaps all, will have exactly what you have in mind. That, or there have been talks of adding shadows and perhaps fog to every arena. I personally am not looking forward to the pitlording nightmares that await. what would be your suggestions so it wouldn't get too complicated?
Sindorin 05-31-05, 04:06 PM	I'm wary to suggest much as significant changes to the arena would probably retire some builds. There are builds that would benefit from having cover/concealment, but in my experience with sneaky builds, I've found that they really do not need it if they are smart with their tactics. One of our former GM's, Tellish of Ket, had a build that seemed like he was impossible to spot, and he wasn't a pixie or anything like that (See: Kelek of the Purge).
Pittbull 06-01-05, 05:58 AM	@KU: Laph is ready for the Quest, he just needs to adjust this equipment before starting. Thanks to advice from Jindl and Cat, I dismissed Bartleby and created LORD PITBULL (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5203491) ;) . He isn't finished and help is wanted! Thanks!
Caterane 06-01-05, 07:50 AM	@KU: Laph is ready for the Quest, he just needs to adjust this equipment before starting. Thanks to advice from Jindl and Cat, I dismissed Bartleby and created LORD PITBULL (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5203491) ;) . He isn't finished and help is wanted! Thanks! Wow, even spelled correctly :D And has almost the same ECL as Demon Lord Lazarus. I hope we open this league soon; you'll be challenged!
Pittbull 06-01-05, 07:58 AM	Username: Pitbull was allready in use, when I arrived here. So I got to change it to Pittbull, like Pitt (shortcut for Peter) or (for the girls) looks like Brad Pitt (only my body, not the face! :D )!
SoulLord 06-01-05, 11:17 AM	I'm wary to suggest much as significant changes to the arena would probably retire some builds. There are builds that would benefit from having cover/concealment, but in my experience with sneaky builds, I've found that they really do not need it if they are smart with their tactics. One of our former GM's, Tellish of Ket, had a build that seemed like he was impossible to spot, and he wasn't a pixie or anything like that (See: Kelek of the Purge). I see, i guess that's one of the advantages of being a part time wizard you can bring inexpensive concealment with you on your matches.
Jindl 06-01-05, 11:40 AM	Well, since only 4 characters are allowed, then I guess Gareth goes since he has another quest to do. Since it cannot be a mini-quest, which is what I was hoping, it will become a 4-player long quest, if you all are still willing. It will be difficult, though, but you will be compensated substantially. According to the FAQ, 30,000gp is the standard for a quest of that sort. But I would think it would be quite difficult to do this. Essentially, it is up to you all. I would love to run the quest, since it is necessary to introduce the campaign. But if you do not feel you are up to it, either because of difficulty or the 3-week part, then that is fine. Finally, I hope you all want to, for this is going to be very challenging but very fun. Good luck to all. Luken Laph Ceres Jindl These will be the "Heroes of Jindl Park." @KU - FYI: The whole quest doesn't have to be against EL11 encounters. You could reduce the overall EL of the quest by making the first 2 encounters a lower EL. Take Rook/Fyhir's recent quest as an example. The first encounter was EL5, the second was EL6, and the third was EL7 (a CR9 creature reduced to CR7 because of the many advantages given to the pc's). This made the overall quest EL6. You could work this for our quest, just have the first two encounters be EL8 and the last EL11 for an overall EL9 quest. Or two EL6's and an EL11 for an overall EL of just over 7. Either way, I think the gp/xp rewards are based upon the individual CR's of the creatures, not the overall EL of the quest. One last thing I want to mention is that its important to finish this quest on time, since JotHF and Laph both need to be available for the 2v4 fight immediately afterwards. -Jindl
Pittbull 06-01-05, 11:48 AM	One last thing I want to mention is that its important to finish this quest on time, since JotHF and Laph both need to be available for the 2v4 fight immediately afterwards. You must know, we are very busy these days, with all the rumors about Jindl. ;) Let's clear the Jindl-Park!!! Yippeeee!
xanadu 06-02-05, 01:40 AM	...
SoulLord 06-02-05, 02:03 PM	If I take the improved familiar feat for a wizard can i start with a fiendish or celestial familiar without having to quest for it first?
Pitlords 06-02-05, 02:21 PM	If I take the improved familiar feat for a wizard can i start with a fiendish or celestial familiar without having to quest for it first? A familiar is being summoned in a ritual. You never have to quest for it. The ritual costs 100 gp.
xanadu 06-02-05, 07:35 PM	I didn't realize how dependant my gladiator Necavi Omnes was on the old ally/pricing rules. I don't think he can compete anymore...in his last fight I dont think I could have done anything beyond what I wrote in his tactics and now one missed roll means no chance. So what is the retirement policy in Living Gladius?
Salrantol 06-02-05, 07:46 PM	From here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5221608): I want to retire my character. What can I do? Sometimes, characters won't work as good as you might have initially thought, and it is of course absolutely within your right to retire this character (and build a new one?). Just write a PM to the Pitlords GM Avatar and tell him that you want to retire the character. The only thing we are asking you is that you do not delete the character. Leave him as he is. Although the character might not be on the Roster anymore, we still have backups of all character links but they only work if there is still a character in there. If your character was at least in the level 7 League, he has earned a place of honor on the Gladius Graveyard, findable in the Characters thread.
xanadu 06-02-05, 07:49 PM	Level 7...Necavi is level 6 but has a way to go before 7.
Caterane 06-02-05, 08:20 PM	You have a long way behind you so I'd say definately play him a handful of matches so that he enters the Graveyard and has a permanent place of honor. You're so close! Necavi deserves it!
xanadu 06-02-05, 09:18 PM	Yeah I guess you are right. But for him to be able to compete, he's going to need some help. Is anyone still looking to run a mini quest? Necavi knows before he can re-step into the arena he'll need to hire himself out or seek some adventure for arena expenses.
King Uther 06-03-05, 01:52 AM	@Jindl The quest will be finished on time. If you all 4 want, I can lower it to an overall EL 9. Hmmm....I guess I'll go ahead. But it'll take a little editing.
King Uther 06-03-05, 02:05 AM	Quest is now changed to EL 9.
Pitlords 06-03-05, 07:33 AM	I'm looking for a good picture for the Graveyard of Gladius and the Council of Elders. Any ideas? Oh and we're still looking for a new Avatar for the Pitlords Account, and a good representing picture for the CoCo on the Games Message Board page. I'd reward credits for those who give me a good one.
Jindl 06-03-05, 09:07 AM	I'm looking for a good picture for the Graveyard of Gladius and the Council of Elders. Any ideas? http://www.christcenteredmall.com/stores/art/davinci/last-supper-zoom.jpg Council of Elders PS- That's Jindl in the middle ;)
Cerebus13 06-03-05, 09:09 AM	I like the scissors in the upper right corner :P
Zerone 06-03-05, 09:28 AM	Worst moment in 'SW' history!!! No. (http://darthno.ytmnd.com/) *•. Z
Caterane 06-03-05, 05:27 PM	Wow! Anakin is Darth Vader!!
Sindorin 06-03-05, 05:29 PM	:heehee :rofl: He's Luke's father too!
Jimbojones1983 06-03-05, 07:00 PM	Hello, I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I wanna play and try this out because I think I will like it. A buddy of mine sent me here but I don't know his username here yet lol
Huan 06-03-05, 08:15 PM	Council of Elders: http://www.geocities.com/luken55/Pics/Elders1.jpg Graveyard of Gladius: http://www.geocities.com/luken55/Pics/Graveyard1.jpg http://www.geocities.com/luken55/Pics/Graveyard2.jpg
Caterane 06-04-05, 03:48 AM	Hello, I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I wanna play and try this out because I think I will like it. A buddy of mine sent me here but I don't know his username here yet lol Hi Jimbojones! Welcome to the Core Coliseum! You should begin with the Quickstart Guide (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179917); a tutorial on how to quickly create a character. After that is done, check the FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5221608) or ask here in the Tavern. I can also lend you assistance in creating the character if you want. If you could specify your questions I can give you a more concrete answer. @Huan: Thanks. I think I am going to use the last one for now.
Sindorin 06-04-05, 03:53 AM	Hello, I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I wanna play and try this out because I think I will like it. A buddy of mine sent me here but I don't know his username here yet lol Wait, I thought you knew my name on here... sorry!
xanadu 06-04-05, 03:23 PM	Hmm, looking over some new characters, I noted some things. Megrim Lord, I love the concept behind Vetrinus Taleshire, very cool. Might want to change your believers mirror image spell, it is 2nd level not first. Iced - Annix's scroll of spider climb is incorrectly priced...its a 2nd level spell.
Megrim_Lord 06-04-05, 03:30 PM	Hmm, looking over some new characters, I noted some things. Megrim Lord, I love the concept behind Vetrinus Taleshire, very cool. Might want to change your believers mirror image spell, it is 2nd level not first. Iced - Annix's scroll of spider climb is incorrectly priced...its a 2nd level spell. oops, meant for it to be shield
xanadu 06-04-05, 03:32 PM	Just so this is clear, is the thrallherd feature in the pRc considered a class feature like the druid animal companion? Exactly how does it interact with the living gladius ally rules?
Megrim_Lord 06-04-05, 03:38 PM	Just so this is clear, is the thrallherd feature in the pRc considered a class feature like the druid animal companion? Exactly how does it interact with the living gladius ally rules? yes. It falls under PrC abilities and is just like bringing an animal companion to the ring (no xp/gold penalties), I read it pretty carefully
Megrim_Lord 06-04-05, 05:46 PM	Jimbo, FF4 much? :D good luck in the arena
Jimbojones1983 06-04-05, 08:32 PM	Dang I though no one would know where the characters and town titles came from. Well at least I made up the story on my own :)
cellardweller 06-04-05, 10:29 PM	yes. It falls under PrC abilities and is just like bringing an animal companion to the ring (no xp/gold penalties), I read it pretty carefully Not quite the same. Like druids companions, thralls and planar allies do not cost gold/xp, however they do count towards the maximum number of allies that you can bring in. This is an artificial balancing factor.
Iced 06-05-05, 01:26 AM	scroll problem fixed. In the 3.0 player's handbook spider climb is a 1st level spell. I checked the online SRD and found out they moved it.
Iced 06-05-05, 01:46 AM	Is there an additional penalty for two-weapon fighting if the off-hand weapon is light?
Pittbull 06-05-05, 05:49 AM	PLease give a helping hand with my Houndarchonbuild (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5203491) : - How are racial HDs calculated? 4,5 for ever level, or 8 for the first and 4,5 the others? - Are archons immortals? - How becomes the archon a hound archon hero? ° If he gets class-levels in paladin? ° If he gets class levels? - When does he get his special dragon mount? ° When he becomes a paladin? ° When he gets the paladin-abillity special mount in the 5th level? ° With 11 classlevels of paladin? Here are the informations, I have: Hound Archon Hero The hound archon hero is a mighty champion of justice, devoted to the pursuit and destruction of evil in all its forms. Paladin Abilities Aura of courage, aura of good, detect evil, divine grace, divine health, lay on hands (33 points/day), remove disease 2/week, special mount (juvenile bronze dragon). Hound Archon Hero Mounts In the course of their adventures, many hound archon heroes befriend bronze dragons, which may come to serve as their mounts. The relationship between these mounts and their celestial riders goes beyond even the special bond between paladin and mount. The dragon and the archon are naturally allies and friends, as can be expected of two powerful servants of cosmic justice. The juvenile bronze dragon mount gains 2 additional HD, 4 points of Strength, an additional 4 points of natural armor, improved evasion, and +10 feet to speed in all its movement forms. The dragon cannot, however, command other creatures of its type as other kinds of paladin mounts can. Hound Archons As Characters Hound archon characters possess the following racial traits. +4 Strength, +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma. Medium size. A hound archon’s base land speed is 40 feet. Racial Hit Dice: A hound archon begins with six levels of outsider, which provide 6d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +6, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +5, Ref +5, and Will +5. Racial Skills: A hound archon’s outsider levels give it skill points equal to 9 × (8 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Concentration, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival. Racial Feats: A hound archon’s outsider levels give it three feats. +9 natural armor bonus. Natural Weapons: Bite (1d8) and slam (1d4). Archon Traits (see page 16): Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, aura of menace (Will DC 15 + character’s Cha modifier), immunity to electricity and petrification, +4 racial bonus on saves against poison, magic circle against evil, teleport, tongues. Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities. Special Qualities: Change shape, damage reduction 10/evil, scent, spell resistance equal to 16 + class levels. Automatic Languages: Celestial. Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Infernal. Favored class: Ranger. Level adjustment +5.
Caterane 06-05-05, 06:34 AM	- Racial HD: 8+5*4.5 = 30.5 hp - Yes, they are immortal. The Hero is nothing else than a 11th level paladin archon. Apparently, with 17 HD, you gain a juvenile bronze dragon as special mount. Don't ask me how they came up with the increased stats of the hero though. Advencing in racial HD is something differently; you'd become large for example, and would not gain any of the extra Hero abilities (which all come from being a paladin).
Pittbull 06-05-05, 03:56 PM	@Cat: Thanks a lot!! @All: Is there a max skill-rank-rule for racial-skillpoints too. The discription says only "classlevels" not racial-skillpoints. For example: Ride is a cross-class skill for a houndarchon, so he has to pay 2 skillpoints for 1 rank, but is there a limit how many he can spend? Like level 6 means 9ranks in class skills and 4,5 in cross-class-skills?
Iced 06-05-05, 06:01 PM	@ Pitbull - I'd think that the same rule for skills would apply to monster levels. Say you get two HD for monster levels, then the max skill rank is 2 for class skills and 1 for cross-class skills.
Pittbull 06-06-05, 02:45 AM	Thanks, that was my first thought too, but there are two points which made thinking of another way: (1) If you check the monster-scores on in the MM, there are many examples which break the rule max skill-points on racial skill, for example hound-archon: jump +15 (str+2, 13Ranks, no racial-bonus). (2) Another point is, if you build a monster yourself, MM says,you can give to any skill HDnumber+3 ranks. Does anybody know something official?
KerlanRayne 06-06-05, 02:58 AM	(1) If you check the monster-scores on in the MM, there are many examples which break the rule max skill-points on racial skill, for example hound-archon: jump +15 (str+3, 12Ranks, no racial-bonus).That could include the bonus from a speed higher then 30. That would be +4 right there. Could you find a few more? KerlanRayne
Pittbull 06-06-05, 03:45 AM	Yes, - Azer: Apraise +6 (-1cha+7Ranks+ no racial+ no item). He has 2 HD so max skill-ranks would be 5. - listen and spot of the bralani +13 (wis+2 , no racial mentioned)
Salrantol 06-06-05, 07:28 AM	The Azer's additional +2 to Appraise comes from 5 ranks in any 2 craft skills. Bralani has max ranks of 9 for 6HD, +2 wis mod, +2 from Alertness
Pittbull 06-06-05, 09:46 AM	Seems that I was on the wrong way! Hey, but thanks to all for your help!
King Uther 06-06-05, 02:47 PM	I have 3 Quest/mini-quest slots open. If you want to do a quest/mini, PM me please so I can work on the map and what not. First come first serve.
xanadu 06-06-05, 06:11 PM	OK, show of hands here, how many wizards have had their familiars die in the arena? I was a bit brazen with mine if only because one of my opponents was against me with his last week (which I killed). When was the 2 month policy enacted? Will this not encourage familiar hunting? All I know is next time I face a wizard, their's better not enter the arena...
Caterane 06-06-05, 06:38 PM	There is no penalty for the death of anything, incl familiars, in the arena (and in the arena only)
Cerebus13 06-06-05, 07:27 PM	There is no penalty for the death of anything, incl familiars, in the arena (and in the arena only)Sorry xanadu, the end of the Allies & Cohorts section of the FAQ seemed to imply to me that you cannot re-summon them for 2 months. I'll edit the fight to remove that comment. @Caterane Could the FAQ be reworded to make this a bit more clear? Something like you said before "No penalties for the death of anything under coverage of the Nimbus" would suffice. However make it clear that deaths outside of the Nimbus would still incur penalties as described in the FAQ (if I am thinking correctly).
xanadu 06-06-05, 08:30 PM	That's cool Cerebus13, I obviously didn't know either...now we are both the wiser :)
Iced 06-07-05, 10:18 AM	If your toad familiar is "holding the charge" for a touch spell, can you throw it atthe enemy as a ranged touch attack?
Jindl 06-07-05, 10:19 AM	If your toad familiar is "holding the charge" for a touch spell, can you throw it atthe enemy as a ranged touch attack? Thanks for pointing out why we should keep the penalty for familiar death in effect...
SoulLord 06-07-05, 10:50 AM	I know that trying to listen behind a door or a wall incur a penalty of +5 and +15 but I thought they meant closed structures.... If I start to cast behind cover; do my opponents get the same penalty to listen dc +15 as if I was in a walled room, compared to taking cover from a wall?
Huan 06-07-05, 11:05 AM	If your toad familiar is "holding the charge" for a touch spell, can you throw it at the enemy as a ranged touch attack? :heehee That actually happened once in one of my sessions...
Jindl 06-07-05, 11:13 AM	I know that trying to listen behind a door or a wall incur a penalty of +5 and +15 but I thought they meant closed structures.... If I start to cast behind cover; do my opponents get the same penalty to listen dc +15 as if I was in a walled room, compared to taking cover from a wall? This issue was covered a few months back, with the resolution that it only applied to enclosed spaces (and there are none in the standard arena map). Of course, there's no way for you (or any new player) to be aware of such rulings unless we start adding them to the FAQ, probably as there own section (Common CoCo Rules Questions or something like that). -Jindl
SoulLord 06-07-05, 11:47 AM	yes I though it was odd when heindal was imposed with a +15 dc to his listen check in the last fight. Can anyone update the faq to add this things or its only elder territory?
Sindorin 06-07-05, 12:38 PM	Where did that house rule we had in which the CL/ML of scrolls and power stones made the pricing scale to be much more expensive than they had been go? I can't find it anywhere...
Jindl 06-07-05, 12:41 PM	Where did that house rule we had in which the CL/ML of scrolls and power stones made the pricing scale to be much more expensive than they had been go? I can't find it anywhere... That rule didn't apply to scrolls, only to psionic stuff. -Jindl
Sindorin 06-07-05, 12:42 PM	That rule didn't apply to scrolls, only to psionic stuff. -Jindl Yeah, where'd it go? I just need the adjusted formula because I am power stone shopping again.
Jindl 06-07-05, 01:19 PM	Yeah, where'd it go? I just need the adjusted formula because I am power stone shopping again. It's easy. For ever 2 levels you augment a power, treat it as 1 level higher.
Sindorin 06-07-05, 01:44 PM	It's easy. For ever 2 levels you augment a power, treat it as 1 level higher. And what if they are not augmented but simply imprinted as a high level? Is this why cellardweller always writes "note that my stones are not augmented" in his tactics? Thanks!
Jindl 06-07-05, 01:45 PM	And what if they are not augmented but simply imprinted as a high level? Is this why cellardweller always writes "note that my stones are not augmented" in his tactics? Thanks! If its not augmented, then the price does not scale. Yes, that's why cellar writes that in his tactics (and on his character sheet). -Jindl
Sindorin 06-07-05, 02:08 PM	If its not augmented, then the price does not scale. Yes, that's why cellar writes that in his tactics (and on his character sheet). -Jindl I think I finally understand what it was intended for... If I make a Crystal Shard stone at ML8 but unaugmented, it would only do 1d6 damage, but I could manifest it at a greater distance. Unfortunately I wanted damage, but oh well :)
SnarkHunter 06-07-05, 02:23 PM	Hey everyone I've returned from hiatus and I'm hoping to get in the game again, so If anyone would be so kind as to check this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=443039) and give me the down low, that'd be awesome.
Megrim_Lord 06-08-05, 05:04 PM	does smite evil damage multiply on a crit?
Jindl 06-08-05, 05:09 PM	does smite evil damage multiply on a crit? Yes.
Malither76 06-08-05, 05:41 PM	can somone tell me how to link a thread, I need to link my quest to my characters
Iced 06-08-05, 06:08 PM	If I have the craft wand feat do I have to pay credits to craft wands?
Iced 06-08-05, 08:23 PM	I am available to run any fights or quests needed now that swim season is over. Just a heads up if anyone wants to go questing or something...;)
SoulLord 06-09-05, 11:15 AM	Just a note on the thread council of elders on issues solved. It was mentioned that the walls in the coliseum dont give a +15 to the dc of listening to someone. Could it please be added there?.
Rim-Soulfang 06-09-05, 12:06 PM	Since there is no Illithids to kill, is it possible to become an Illithid slayer? Or is there a psionic variant of Eldritch Knight aviable (and allowed) for full bab 9/10ml?
Pittbull 06-09-05, 12:12 PM	Just use the SRD version of the Illithid-Slayer named simply SLAYER (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) !
Jindl 06-09-05, 12:34 PM	Does anybody know why the LIMG and RIMG vB tags aren't working?
Caterane 06-09-05, 01:04 PM	Does anybody know why the LIMG and RIMG vB tags aren't working? Because we're on the Wizards boards can somone tell me how to link a thread, I need to link my quest to my characters To post a link to a character: NAME. The number may be found on your browser status bar when placing the mouse cursor over the "#" in the top right corner of the post. Since there is no Illithids to kill, is it possible to become an Illithid slayer? Or is there a psionic variant of Eldritch Knight aviable (and allowed) for full bab 9/10ml? The Slayer doesn't need to kill an illithid; you can choose any psionic race. You can go on a quest and kill anything you want.
Sindorin 06-09-05, 02:11 PM	Some confusion in that comes from the Expanded Psionics Handbook versus the System Reference Document - In the System Reference Document, it is not "Illithid Slayer", it is simply "Slayer".
Caterane 06-09-05, 02:34 PM	http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/smilies/think.gif http://home.arcor.de/caterane/Miscellaneous%20Pictures/family.jpg
Caterane 06-09-05, 03:54 PM	This Tavern is closed. Posts continue in the Core Coliseum Tavern III (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=444341) Tavern II, we'll miss you :weep: