Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Caterane 06-09-05, 03:50 PM	The Core Coliseum Tavern http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/Gladius-River.jpg This is the Tavern of the Core Coliseum. Here, all gladiators meet to chat, drink, and sometimes even brawl. You can ask questions, talk to others, or write whatever you want as long as it does not violate the Code of Conduct (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=community/coc). You can't really go wrong here. Newcomers who want to make a character should use the Quickstart Guide or read the Rules of Gladius. Links to the old Taverns: - Core Coliseum Tavern I (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=192697) - Core Coliseum Tavern II (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=348562)
Sindorin 06-09-05, 04:33 PM	What was up with that magazine thing at the end of Tavern II??? I really hope my mind is not that dirty...
Caterane 06-09-05, 04:46 PM	Steve, that's the "Parents" family magazine! I don't want to know what's on your mind :D Does anyone have a good CoCo Tavern picture?
SoulLord 06-09-05, 04:56 PM	there was this image of a bar brawl with beholders and other d&d characters i'll try to look for it. here its is http://www.toddlockwood.com/resources/images/galleries/new_art/01/barfight.jpg
Megrim_Lord 06-09-05, 05:23 PM	Spash, you might want to ask for a cred refund, if you read the thrallherder ability more carefully, you'll find you don't need to quest for thralls or believers
Megrim_Lord 06-09-05, 05:25 PM	Quoth the SRD Thrallherd (Ex): A thrallherd who has just entered the class sends out a subtle psychic call for servants, and that call is answered. Essentially, the character gains something akin to the Leadership feat, but with some important differences. Those who answer a thrallherd’s call are not referred to as cohorts and followers, but rather as thralls and believers, respectively. They do not appear because they admire the character and want to serve her, but because a hidden psychic resonance connects the thrallherd and her servants. As with the Leadership feat, a thrallherd has a Leadership score that determines the highest-level thrall and believers she can attract. A thrallherd’s Leadership score is equal to her character level + her Cha modifier + her thrallherd level. (Note that her thrallherd level is counted twice.) This score is not affected by any of the modifiers mentioned in the Leadership feat. As with the Leadership feat, the called thrall’s level is limited, even if the character’s Leadership score would indicate a higher-level thrall. Unlike with the Leadership feat, the level limit of a thrall is equal to the character’s total level minus 1 (not level minus 2, as is true for cohorts). A thrallherd cannot take the Leadership feat; if the character already has it, the feat is lost and replaced by this ability; those who were previously cohorts and followers go their separate ways, and those who are more mentally pliable show up later to take up roles as thralls and believers. A thrallherd’s first thrall and believers arrive within 24 hours of her entry into this class; likewise, lost thralls and believers are replaced within 24 hours.Use the following table instead of the one with the Leadership feat to determine the level of a thrallherd’s thrall and the number of believers of various levels a thrallherd can attract. as I said
King Uther 06-09-05, 05:28 PM	The 4 characters in the Heroes of Jindl Park thread have 1st choice, but is there anyone who wants to take part in the campaign to discover the evil lurking miles below Gladius (EL6+ please)? I'm looking at you cellardweller(Lance) or Caterane(Ixenthor or Uhmentarymster) as who I would like to finish out the party. On another note, I would like to know if it is possible(in a long while from now) to have one week where all the pairings are not versus each other, but teamed up to fight something? I would like to write an invasion into Gladius' storyline, and what better than the gladiators fending off the invaders. Tell me what you think.
xanadu 06-09-05, 06:08 PM	On another note, I would like to know if it is possible(in a long while from now) to have one week where all the pairings are not versus each other, but teamed up to fight something? I would like to write an invasion into Gladius' storyline, and what better than the gladiators fending off the invaders. Tell me what you think. That sounds like a cool idea to me...something a little different to spice up Living Gladius :)
Luni 06-09-05, 06:27 PM	On another note, I would like to know if it is possible(in a long while from now) to have one week where all the pairings are not versus each other, but teamed up to fight something? I would like to write an invasion into Gladius' storyline, and what better than the gladiators fending off the invaders. Tell me what you think. That does sound cool.
Salrantol 06-09-05, 06:42 PM	Should the listing for this week's fights be reposted into Battles of Gladius now that Fights (which has them listed) is closed? Also, since people are looking for cool things to do, I would like to get together with 3 others for an ECL 4 team battle 2 vs. 2.
Caterane 06-09-05, 07:46 PM	@all: I want to tell you some things. Please read and try to answer all points. Long post but important information. Thanks. So you've already found the new Tavern. The old Tavern was too big so I had to open a new one. For the same reason, I had to open a new Fights thread which is now called "Battles of Gladius" to be more in line with the other Living Gladius expressions. The Fights thread is closed and all fights go from now on into the new Battles of Gladius thread. All links throughout the board have been changed to the new threads. If you detect one that still leads to the Tavern II or the Fights thread, please tell me by PM. Same for any broken or wrong links. Thanks. The CoCo already has the maximum number of stickies and I was wondering if we really need the Roleplay thread. Although I am enjoying every post there, it is barely used. It is also not organized but a jumble of roleplay posts which are not related to another. And Quests (and Campaigns soon) have basically replaced the Roleplay thread with their deeper RP. Now I have three questions: - Do we need the Roleplay thread as a sticky? - If not, then how can we organize roleplaying in the coco? - Is there another thread that should become a sticky? If you have another question, please tell us. I'll probably put up a poll about that next week but let's talk about it first. Due to a recent board upgrade or fix, the [LIMG] and [RIMG] tags are not working. Same for the Elder custom titles of Pittbull and Sindorin but WizO_Paradox has been informed about both and it should be working sooner or later. I'm really sorry about that, Elders, but apparently not even the WizO's have control over that. I want to remind you that there is the possibility to start Campaigns if you are interested in becoming a Campaignlord. If anyone of you wants to give it a try, he or she is most welcome! Once we have some Campaigns up and running, WizO_Shadow would be willing to give us a sticky on some of the other boards with an advertisement announcement for the CoCo. Since there is a lot that has been changed, the other boards should be informed about these latest additions. But we need Campaignlords, else no Campaigns. I'd love to have your assistence in here. Asides from Campaignlording, advertisement for the CoCo would help a lot to attract new members. If you have any idea on how to do that, please tell me, and/or do it yourself. The Pitlords GM Account has a custom avatar. I just haven't found an appropriate picture yet. I think I've asked that at the beginning of the last Tavern, and so I do here again, infront of many new members with new ideas. If you have a good avatar for the Pitlords Account in mind, send it to me. Speaking of Custom Avatars... After talking to the WizO's, the CoCo may now award custom avatars to members who win contests. I haven't set my mind on a certain contest but I have an idea or two. A race to level X won't work because you can always add a PC one level below that but I remembered Snarky's Iron Man Tournament idea. I'd like to set up such a tournament and the winner gets a Custom Avatar. I haven't thought about the specifics of this tournament but here are some ideas from the top of my head: - we determine a certain ECL - 10 would work fine - and all PCs of up to level 10 may participate. The tournament will start in x months so that everyone has a chance to get up there. The more fights you won, the closer you are to ECL 10 and the better your chances in the tournament. If you have a better idea, by all means, tell me! One requirement only: all characters must be from the Roster! You cannot create one-shot gladiators for the tournament. Or perhaps you have even a better idea on how to award custom avatars than a tournament? Tell us! I think that's it for now Cat
Iced 06-09-05, 08:36 PM	Originally Posted by King Uther: On another note, I would like to know if it is possible(in a long while from now) to have one week where all the pairings are not versus each other, but teamed up to fight something? I would like to write an invasion into Gladius' storyline, and what better than the gladiators fending off the invaders. Tell me what you think. That would be awesone! :D Originally posted by Cat: The CoCo already has the maximum number of stickies and I was wondering if we really need the Roleplay thread. Although I am enjoying every post there, it is barely used. It is also not organized but a jumble of roleplay posts which are not related to another. And Quests (and Campaigns soon) have basically replaced the Roleplay thread with their deeper RP. Now I have three questions: - Do we need the Roleplay thread as a sticky? - If not, then how can we organize roleplaying in the coco? - Is there another thread that should become a sticky? If you have another question, please tell us. I'll probably put up a poll about that next week but let's talk about it first. You're right that the roleplay thread is jumbled, but we should leave it sticky until we find a suitable thread to replace it. I think that the various quests allow for more roleplay, like the E.H.T.C. thread. It would be cool to have various themed reoleplay threads(E.H.T.C. for evil, another for good, one for spellcasters, etc)/ Originally posted by Cat: I want to remind you that there is the possibility to start Campaigns if you are interested in becoming a Campaignlord. If anyone of you wants to give it a try, he or she is most welcome! Once we have some Campaigns up and running, WizO_Shadow would be willing to give us a sticky on some of the other boards with an advertisement announcement for the CoCo. Since there is a lot that has been changed, the other boards should be informed about these latest additions. But we need Campaignlords, else no Campaigns. I can campaignlord... ;)
Jindl 06-09-05, 10:33 PM	On another note, I would like to know if it is possible(in a long while from now) to have one week where all the pairings are not versus each other, but teamed up to fight something? I would like to write an invasion into Gladius' storyline, and what better than the gladiators fending off the invaders. Tell me what you think. We should work together on this, since I have just recently revived an old invasion storyline that was originally created by Tellish of Ket (check Rook/Fyhir's quest and the old fights dubbed The March of Evil). -Jindl
Jindl 06-09-05, 10:44 PM	Now I have three questions: - Do we need the Roleplay thread as a sticky? - If not, then how can we organize roleplaying in the coco? - Is there another thread that should become a sticky? No, I don't think we need the Roleplay thread as a sticky. Most of the roleplay is occuring in quests, organization threads, and campaigns. The current Roleplay thread has really become just a place of introductions. I would suggest relegating that to the tavern (and before you say that it would get in the way of rules discussions, read below). I suggest a change to the tavern. With the use of Fights of the Week threads, almost all rules discussion has moved away from the tavern. That leaves the tavern a bit underused. Why don't we change the Tavern into an actual Tavern, and allow RP between characters to occur here. For rules discussions, they should occur in the FotW threads. Then, we'll index the FAQ with links to each FotW thread (and a quick summary of what rules were discussed each week). As for a seperate sticky, I suggest making the FAQ its own sticky. I think it needs renovation, and I'll even volunteer to work on it. The World of Gladius thread can be unstickied, and then the Maps thread can be appended to it, which would leave a thread with the first few posts detailing people and history, and the rest of the thread detailing all of the maps that make up the World of Gladius (starting with a World Map). That would leave us with 3 Stickies: The Tavern (for RP and announcements <- which could be announced by either Joe the Arena Organizer or the Barkeep of the Tavern or etc), The FAQ (which must be stickied, renovated, and the first post of its thread), and The Roster (which looks great the way it is). -Jindl
Sindorin 06-10-05, 01:52 AM	I am interested in running some form of campaign as well. I have a friend that I would want to loan some credits to so he could play in it (Jimbojones1983), would that be okay?
Caterane 06-10-05, 05:26 AM	Ok, so here are the ones who want to run a Campaign: - Sindorin - Iced - King Uther - Kaigan Anyone else? Please read the FAQ: Campaignlording and FAQ: Campaigns, then begin writing on your Campaign. The sooner we have Campaigns running, the better. @Sindorin: Sure, that's ok @Jindl: There might come a time when we need a renovation but that's not now. Atm the thread arrangement works fine. Good idea with the fusion of the World of Gladius and Maps thread. However, I don't want to give up on the World of Gladius thread so easily. I know it could be more useful but we have little idea where LG will lead us in a year or two. Perhaps we include a real guild and economic system like on the Guildhouse board? Perhaps Campaigns will become so popular that they need special governing? I am not satisfied with the roleplaying part of the CoCo; there should be so much more. But a Roleplay thread isn't the answer. I like your idea but it's not terribly necessary now, and we shouldn't make such a big renovation unless it is really necessary. The FAQ are linked throughout the board; wether they are at the top of the thread or not doesn't matter. The FotW threads cannot be linked because they are always opened anew. We can of course include roleplay post in the Tavern. But this is also the place for discussions such as this one and we need such a place. Since the Tavern is always the thread with the most posts, I don't think it is underused. Alright guys, you have heard the Jindler :D . You are encouraged to roleplay your character here. @all: What about the other points I wrote?
Huan 06-10-05, 09:06 AM	...
Salzorin 06-10-05, 11:00 AM	On another note, I would like to know if it is possible(in a long while from now) to have one week where all the pairings are not versus each other, but teamed up to fight something? I would like to write an invasion into Gladius' storyline, and what better than the gladiators fending off the invaders. Tell me what you think. We should work together on this, since I have just recently revived an old invasion storyline that was originally created by Tellish of Ket (check Rook/Fyhir's quest and the old fights dubbed The March of Evil). -Jindl If you guys did this would this be something open to all gladiators without a credit cost? And would gladiators get to run 2 characters that they have for it? or just 1?
Salzorin 06-10-05, 11:03 AM	@Cat: Regarding custom avatars. Aside from doing some form of contest... I think it would be relatively appropriate to give a custom avatar to people that have gained a certain number of credits in a certain amount of time... to those people that run 2 fights, pick up a third when somebody drops a fight, and catch character violations in their spare time... I feel like they could use a little bit of extra recognition.
Jindl 06-10-05, 11:54 AM	If you guys did this would this be something open to all gladiators without a credit cost? And would gladiators get to run 2 characters that they have for it? or just 1? It would probably be a random pairing of 2 gladiators to face an invader (or a team of invaders). This is the equivalent of a random monster fight, which doesn't cost any credits. All active gladiators would be included. There would be no credit cost. -Jindl
SoulLord 06-10-05, 12:04 PM	How about an invasion of animated objects made of Gold :)
Huan 06-10-05, 12:10 PM	{Whips out favored Sienna coloration} Throw my name in the hat for eligible Campaignlords, please. If one of the stickies had to go, it would have to be the Roleplay Thread. I too enjoy a good story, but the entries within are too disjoint and sparingly used to make the thread practical. We must be cruel to be kind here. As Caterane stated, the increasing depth of quests are quickly filling in the gap of roleplaying rather well. As soon as Campaigns are instantiated, perhaps a "Chronicles of Gladius" thread can be started, in which all campaigns/quests/ meaningful miniquests thus far are recorded (instead of the Characters thread). Furthermore, the entries within can be posts by the characters in the plots themselves developing the storyline (a good example is King Uther's EHTC thread). So far, several major plots, even with individual characters, are going on, which is cool... such as EHTC getting a grip on Gladius (can the old coalitions of good band together and counter?.. or will a new one form to fight crime?), or lower plane fiends coming forth and causing trouble ... the fall of the Nimbus .... etc. As for another thread becoming sticky, I cannot think of one. The needs of the COCO seemed to have filtered into the existing ones, so far. :cookie: to King Uther for reviving a plethora of opportunities to making Living Gladius live. With my writing hand back, I hope to help on my end with enriched fights and quests (and maybe campaign). The tournament for custom avatar is a good idea (atypical for the COCO), and perhaps the date can be on the anniversary of the COCO itself? (it would be a nice way to celebrate its birthday) Maybe a person can buy a custom avatar with a number of credits ... that would show a level of achievement (like a medal). Maybe a separate cost for custom title, too.
Pitlords 06-10-05, 01:10 PM	Campaign Roster is ready. A new chapter in coco history! And 5 Campaignlords are a great start! Custom Avatars (CA) should not be given lightly. Although it is nice if someone jumps in to take over a fight, that's certainly not comparable to UnCon Prizewinners, Winners of the Optimization Contest (like our Cellardweller), or similar events that grant CAs. Likewise, someone who has a lot of credits has already been rewarded with a lot of credits with which he can do many things. And buying a CA is definately not the purpose of an award. I'd like to follow the tradition that CAs are something special, and you have to accomplish something special - winning the Iron Tournament for example - to get one. The CoCo birthday is the 28th of July; not sure if we're ready for the tournament by then but we shouldn't rush it. I suggest to have all players lead their characters on their own so that no one loses because of a Pitlord mistake. And yeah, King Uther rules! But so does Huan.
King Uther 06-10-05, 04:29 PM	A couple of thoughts: It would be nice to have a Chronicles of Gladius thread. I would run it if no one else wanted to. It would keep track of the storyline threads and what not. In addition... I would like to see a Stories thread, one where anyone can post a story, categorized by a character story or an event story, and it could all be linked so anyone can easily navigate the plethora of storylines that populate Gladius. It could be the thread where character introductions are made. Any thoughts? If we get as many Campaigns going as could be, Gladius will be empty of many gladiators, particularly good gladiators with important things to do. I suggest that the good characters that are left form some sort of rival good organization, otherwise the E.H.T.C. will sit unopposed with as many as 20-30 good gladiators absent from the city. 3-6 months is a long time for evil to go unchecked. I would like to collaborate with the other Campaignlords to provide our players with an experience you will not see in other sessions. Imagine 5 campaigns where the stories arc over to one another and climax at a battle where each of the parties has to simultaneously defeat an opponent to save Gladius. That would be an epic. Any thoughts? If you would like to be in a campaign but cannot due to credits, I will pay your credit cost providing you have only one character on campaign.
bgt 06-10-05, 05:04 PM	I have a rules question: If a raging barbarian falls asleep, is he still raging? I would think not, but I thought I'd check.
Malither76 06-10-05, 05:24 PM	To all Campaing Lords, Gareth Irontower would like to joing any good questing campaing that will have him, if things don't go to bad on his quest he will be ECL 6 upon completion so if anyone needs a fighter of sorts think of Gareth, thanks
Jindl 06-10-05, 05:55 PM	I have a rules question: If a raging barbarian falls asleep, is he still raging? I would think not, but I thought I'd check. Yes, he is. There is nothing in the RAW to indicate that raging requires concentration or consciousness. Raging is a physical ability, that once begun continues until either the character wills it to end, or its duration expires. It does continue if the character is put to sleep (through magic or poison) or if the character is brought to unconsciousness through real or subdual damage. -Jindl
Sindorin 06-10-05, 06:30 PM	I have set up my campaign thread, "Faded Fate" (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6411658#post6411658) with introduction. Please send me a Private Message if you have a character that you would like to send on the campaign. There has been one character [OK]'d so far, and he is a human fighter level 3 (Cecil). I am looking for 3 or 4 more characters of lower levels to participate.
SoulLord 06-10-05, 06:35 PM	I know that custom stuff costs extra but is the list in the DMG of wands the only wands that can be bought without paying credits? I think they just didnt want to list the entire spells section when they made the wand section (not talking about creating it above minimum caster level)
Caterane 06-10-05, 06:45 PM	@all Pitlords: Please put character sheets and tactics in Spoilerblocks! This makes the fights thread much shorter and spares my mouse wheel. @Xanadu: Can you please put the sheets and tactics in sblocks? Thanks. @Soullord: You can buy any wand but you have to pay credits if it isn't specifically listed in the DMG. Even a CL of one higher than that in the DMG is considered a custom item. Here's the relevant text from the Blackmarket (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=396641): You may pay 5° to get the right to buy custom expendable items with multiple charges, like wands and dorjes. They may contain any spell/power allowed, and may have any caster/manifesterlevel. Normally, you may only buy those listed in the DMG/PHB. Example: Wand of Entangle, Wand of Shocking grasp [CL 5], Dorje of expansion [ML 3]
Jindl 06-10-05, 07:46 PM	I know that custom stuff costs extra but is the list in the DMG of wands the only wands that can be bought without paying credits? I think they just didnt want to list the entire spells section when they made the wand section (not talking about creating it above minimum caster level) I agree with what you're saying, and that is how it used to be. But what Cat wrote is the current system for handling wands that are not printed in the DMG. It is what it is. -Jindl
Caterane 06-10-05, 08:08 PM	We used to allow only those specifically listed in the DMG. The Blackmarket opens the option to buy wands not printed in the DMG by paying credits. Same for all other things in there: it was not possible to pick such an item in the past but now it is. Custom items are core but are rarer than the printed ones. The Blackmarket creates this very enviroment here in the CoCo: they are allowed but the credit cost limits their appearance. Perfect.
SoulLord 06-10-05, 08:27 PM	I understand what you say but it seem's .... well not right that buying a wand for a 1st level spell not listed but in the core and a wand of lets say. Empowered scorching ray with energy substitution acid at level 11 would have the same treatment..
Huan 06-10-05, 10:28 PM	A couple of thoughts: It would be nice to have a Chronicles of Gladius thread. I would run it if no one else wanted to. It would keep track of the storyline threads and what not. In addition... I would like to see a Stories thread, one where anyone can post a story, categorized by a character story or an event story, and it could all be linked so anyone can easily navigate the plethora of storylines that populate Gladius. It could be the thread where character introductions are made. Any thoughts? If we get as many Campaigns going as could be, Gladius will be empty of many gladiators, particularly good gladiators with important things to do. I suggest that the good characters that are left form some sort of rival good organization, otherwise the E.H.T.C. will sit unopposed with as many as 20-30 good gladiators absent from the city. 3-6 months is a long time for evil to go unchecked. I would like to collaborate with the other Campaignlords to provide our players with an experience you will not see in other sessions. Imagine 5 campaigns where the stories arc over to one another and climax at a battle where each of the parties has to simultaneously defeat an opponent to save Gladius. That would be an epic. Any thoughts? If you would like to be in a campaign but cannot due to credits, I will pay your credit cost providing you have only one character on campaign. A simple Stories thread would be nice, but I get the feeling that it would regrettably not be populated enough to last (it sounds like the old Roleplay thread). Also, the Roleplay has not been killed, only made unsticky (so dramatic chracter introductions can perhaps be made there). ... perhaps if the Chronicles of Gladius becomes a reality, then a post or three linking to battles with stories can be made (I myself would not mind maintaining such a section).... If a Stories thread WERE initiated, then I would suggest handling it a little like the Characters thread, in which the first few posts are mandatory introduction, and one of them lists all contributing characters to the Thread. Now, each Character has a SINGLE post in the Thread that they may update in which they provide links to posts/battles/Quests with stories about their characters. The actual stories may be posted in the Roleplay thread or wherever appropriate (Think of it as an expansion of the Background portion of the character sheets). How about that? @All Good-Aligned Characters Rook has detected a disturbance in the Force (besides the extraplanar foes coming out of mines and parks) ... we should keep a sharp eye out... As for your collaboration proposal, I was thinking the exact same thing (I'm glad we're on the same page here) and could not agree more. Multiple sub-plots and adventures under the umbrella of a grander scheme is the stuff epics are made out of ... Of course, we should also keep our players and their goals in mind with these adventures, but if we can get some teamwork going... yeah, it'll be great. Character and plot crossovers really give a fun and "communtiy" feel to all of it... not to mention its really cool.
Sindorin 06-11-05, 01:17 AM	Rook has detected a disturbance in the Force Sokai Calanis: "I feel it as well... a fell voice in the air..."
Sindorin 06-11-05, 01:28 AM	@ All: I if you wish to put an image to the left/right of a post, you can still use the normal [img], but you must also use either a [left] or a [right] tag to orient your image the way you wish. This is much like if you wished to center a paragraph of text before. For some reason though it will not let you have text and an image on the same line still, which is what I imagine the old codes did.
Iced 06-11-05, 02:43 AM	how do you put things in spoiler blocks?
Cerebus13 06-11-05, 02:54 AM	how do you put things in spoiler blocks?Surround the parts with <sblock> and </sblock>. Replace the "<" and ">" with "[" and "]" respectively.
Caterane 06-11-05, 04:29 AM	@Huan/Uther: Why don't you guys take over command over such a project? Like Steve being the Seraph of Luck, uh, I mean, the official Fight of the Week opener, you could be the Roleplay Chefs. I had hoped to include a working Guildsystem (like on the Guildhouse board) which will be actively incorporated into the CoCo but that costs time I don't have right now. And I have no idea where to start. So please if you're interested you can go ahead. Your mission: promote roleplaying in the CoCo! If it is anyhow possible to be incorporated into the system, let me know. @Soullord: Same right for all levels. What a lvl 1 wand is for a new gladiator is the emp.scorching ray for a high level one. Custom Wands don't get rarer the higher in level you go, therefore same credit price.
Pitlords 06-11-05, 12:49 PM	Ignore.
Sindorin 06-11-05, 01:03 PM	It's okay, we forgive you :)
Huan 06-11-05, 01:06 PM	Roger that.
Pitlords 06-11-05, 01:10 PM	Please ignore what I said above. I got hit by a confusion spell!!
Sindorin 06-11-05, 01:18 PM	So is it EL or DL?
Pitlords 06-11-05, 01:30 PM	What's DL? LOL
Sindorin 06-11-05, 01:30 PM	I'm so confused now!
Caterane 06-11-05, 01:44 PM	Ok, problem is that Encounter level is not always appropriate for a group. Imagine a group of five level seven characters - let's say the Elder, Jindl, Ixenthor, Laph, and Lance. Average party level = 7 so Encounter level 7 is considere appropriate. That would mean, one CR 7 creature - like Sokai - would be a threat to this group. I doubt it. On the other hand, a gargantuan adamantine animated object would be CR 7 too and immune to anything this group can bring up. Or, one man party called Sokai1 (EL 7) has the same EL and fights the same creatures as the whole level 7 roster (EL 7). Therefore, I thought we make something like Difficulty Level of a Campaign which focuses more on the real party power but I realized that this calculation is way too complicated.
Sindorin 06-11-05, 02:01 PM	lol, I think I understand now :).
SoulLord 06-11-05, 03:27 PM	Ok no argument in that respec, but to be fair the same restriction should be imposed on crafters if they want to build something not-core it should cost them credits as well. Otherwise you are making it more dificult for non crafters, which I believe the latest trend was to encourage them. @Soullord: Same right for all levels. What a lvl 1 wand is for a new gladiator is the emp.scorching ray for a high level one. Custom Wands don't get rarer the higher in level you go, therefore same credit price.
King Uther 06-12-05, 01:33 AM	The campaign EL should not be the EL of the encounters, but what individual experience award you should expect to receive. That's how I do the Hands of Death Quests, anyhow. This way you can expect to level up with everyone else back in Gladius. I would love to organize with Huan about roleplaying. I'm sure he has some great ideas, and after bouncing some ideas off of one another, perhaps a perfect balance shall be found. As far as a custom Avatar is concerned, it would be unfair to buy one with credits, or let a credit earnings contest be the judge of who wins. Not like I wouldn't like to win, but not because I have the time to put forth and do so by accepting many quests. I would like to see an Iron Man competition though. Two thoughts: Maybe it should be organized in groups? Casters and non-casters, or maybe as many as 4 groups. Or in the spirit of Iron Man, make it an endurance challenge, where you cannot heal your spells/day or buy stuff, but at the same time you are not allowed to use more than 3 of the same item the entire contest(to prevent stockpiling).
Sindorin 06-13-05, 02:49 PM	Here's an interesting question regarding the Weapon Focus (mind blade) feat granted to the Soulknife at level 1: Say a Soulknife has Weapon Focus (longsword) and Weapon Focus (Mind Blade). The Soulknife shapes his mind blade into a longsword form. Does he get the bonus from each feat? How would this work out? Would the two feats stack?
SoulLord 06-13-05, 02:52 PM	Unless it specifically said so like in Greater weapon focus then no, As it's the same bonus; Same reason why bull strenght spells dont stack one each other.
Sindorin 06-13-05, 03:03 PM	That's kind of what I figured, though I just felt the urge to ask.
Huan 06-13-05, 03:03 PM	Anna ... is ... DEAD!
xanadu 06-13-05, 06:00 PM	Who would be willing to run a mini-quest? Desdenova seeks undead allies. It wont be much of a monster fight as she'll need to roll a 1 to successfully command them, but them's the rules.
Jindl 06-13-05, 06:18 PM	Anna ... is ... DEAD! If you don't find that scary, then I suggest you keep reading her quest ...
Caterane 06-13-05, 06:57 PM	Who would be willing to run a mini-quest? Desdenova seeks undead allies. It wont be much of a monster fight as she'll need to roll a 1 to successfully command them, but them's the rules. Miniquests do not necessarily have to be run in a seperate thread. Especially in case of very easy fights, we normally assign a Pitlord who runs it arena like.
Caterane 06-13-05, 06:58 PM	Anna ... is ... DEAD! Luken and Jindl soon too :D
Sindorin 06-13-05, 07:12 PM	Well, it's looking more like Ceres than Luken or Jindl.
xanadu 06-13-05, 08:06 PM	Miniquests do not necessarily have to be run in a seperate thread. Especially in case of very easy fights, we normally assign a Pitlord who runs it arena like. Ok then lets do that.
King Uther 06-14-05, 12:27 AM	Well, if everyone dies we'll pretend the ghost template was the goal anyways.
Sindorin 06-14-05, 03:01 AM	I have a concern with the campaigns. If there is somewhat of a hope that the addition of campaigns will draw new people from other boards to here, how will they cope with the credit cost? I just am pictureing Joe Wizardboards Guy coming over and saying "Hey, I am new here and would like to join a campaign, what do I do?" and then he gets told "Sorry, you have to pitlord 5 fights (which could take up to a month) before you can be part of a campaign"... What should we do about this possible problem? Or should I simply be PMing this question to Pitlords? (I was weary of that because I seem to have been spamming him quite a bit with silly pm's lately... sorry)
Caterane 06-14-05, 07:36 AM	They would be able to get 5 credits in about 3 weeks easily and this is the time they need to learn the rule anyway. A constant week-by-week credit cost will be difficult to sustain for newbies or those who don't want to pitlord. And a credit cost makes sure that Mr.Wizard Guy is serious about the campaign and doesn't drop out half-way because he just wanted to "check it out". Unlike on the RA board - where this occurs frequently - it is very complicated if someone leaves the campaign because of the nature of the coco (controlled wealth distribution). I've thought about this for a long time and this is imo the best solution. But if you have a better suggestion, I'm open to hear it.
Huan 06-14-05, 08:30 AM	Tell Mr. Wizard Guy to let his creativity flow and write stories for all his pitlorded fights. ;)
SoulLord 06-14-05, 10:41 AM	The credit cost seems good for the campaigns. but perhaps an alternative to earn credits could be placed as it would be ..... tough for some newcomers to sucessfuly pitlord some of the fights in the CoCo. you have to admit that it take an above average knowledage of the rules in the least. Perhaps add Good Color commentary to already run fights? just some thoughts.
Jindl 06-14-05, 10:53 AM	The credit cost seems good for the campaigns. but perhaps an alternative to earn credits could be placed as it would be ..... tough for some newcomers to sucessfuly pitlord some of the fights in the CoCo. you have to admit that it take an above average knowledage of the rules in the least. Perhaps add Good Color commentary to already run fights? just some thoughts. We do grant credits for adding a story to a fight, whether you pitlorded the fight or not. If adding a story to a fight, you must talk to both players and the pitlord of the fight (obviously, since they'll need to edit their post to include your story). There are a multitude of past fights that could use stories...
LLMadCow 06-14-05, 11:12 AM	The credit cost seems good for the campaigns. but perhaps an alternative to earn credits could be placed as it would be ..... tough for some newcomers to sucessfuly pitlord some of the fights in the CoCo. you have to admit that it take an above average knowledage of the rules in the least. Perhaps add Good Color commentary to already run fights? just some thoughts. I've been here for ages and I find it tough to run the fights. I may know a lot of the rules and I can research a lot of the other rules quickly, but it is still tough. (Want me to post half of the SRD at you? Huh, punk!?!? :P ) Remember, there have always been a few extra ways to earn credits. You audit character sheets. Every 10 levels audited is worth 1°. OR You write a memorable story. Most of the time this is a story describing an arena fight that you just ran. This is worth 1°, or 2° if it is added to the Tales of Gladius list of best stories. OR Board administration counts as 1°. This is only applicable to the Game Masters aka - you be Caterane. :P For special assistance*, the GMs may reward players with administration credits. *Special Assistance: For anyone interested in visiting Germany, they can earn extra credits for any of the following: Picking up Caterane's laundry from the Dry Cleaners. 1° Picking up Caterane's groceries from the store. 1° Harvesting Caterane's freshly grown fruits and vegetables. 1° Tune-Up Caterane's car. 2° Drop off and pick up books from Library and/or book store. 2° Find a suitable girlfriend for reclusive gamer with no time. 5° Climb the Alps, recover Moherajikuyx and make him run the board again. 100°
Huan 06-14-05, 11:12 AM	There are a multitude of past fights that could use stories... I'm working on it, I'm working on it.... :P
Cerebus13 06-14-05, 11:51 AM	It's already in the FAQ that you cannot have allies or other players craft equipment for your character. However, can you have your character craft equipment for your allies? (Since you are the one footing the bill for all of their equipment, spending money and whatnot....)
Jindl 06-14-05, 11:57 AM	It's already in the FAQ that you cannot have allies or other players craft equipment for your character. However, can you have your character craft equipment for your allies? (Since you are the one footing the bill for all of their equipment, spending money and whatnot....) Yes, that is fine.
Pittbull 06-14-05, 12:09 PM	(1) Find a suitable girlfriend for reclusive gamer with no time. 5° (2) Climb the Alps, recover Moherajikuyx and make him run the board again. 100° (1) No problem, just visit me, I live in a town with hundrets of beautiful women! :pint: :love: :cheer: ;) (2) He lives in Florence? That's about 5-6h away from my home. I have picture of him, let's see what I can do. 100° yummy!! :D
Sindorin 06-14-05, 12:24 PM	5 credits seems pretty low for "reclusive gamer."
verdeloth 06-14-05, 12:36 PM	Hi im just a newb with a newb character. When/how do you know when you're paired?
SoulLord 06-14-05, 12:41 PM	Every wednesday the pairings are done. So if you must make changes to your character its advisable to do them before.
King Uther 06-14-05, 12:41 PM	Pairings happen on Wednesday. It appears in both the Battles of Gladius thread and the Fights of the Week thread.
Sindorin 06-14-05, 12:43 PM	First make sure your character is set "ready 15 June 2005" Pairings are made that day (this wednesday). The editing deadline is 9 pm in Deutschland, 3 pm in St. Louis... wherever you are relative to either of those should be when your editing deadline is (it all happens at the same time). I hope that makes sense. Just let us know where you live and we can tell you when the editing deadline is in your time zone. (it took me forever to figure out all this) Welcome to the CoCo!
SoulLord 06-14-05, 02:32 PM	How are the red wizards of thay handled in the CoCo? can anyone be a red wizard? how about elves, halflings etc.... In the reams settings usually no since they are humans from thay But the prestige class in the dmg only makes a reference to coming from thay which Ii'm not sure is even relevant in here.
Jindl 06-14-05, 02:36 PM	How are the red wizards of thay handled in the CoCo? can anyone be a red wizard? how about elves, halflings etc.... In the reams settings usually no since they are humans from thay But the prestige class in the dmg only makes a reference to coming from thay which Ii'm not sure is even relevant in here. The DMG does reference "Race: Human only" as a prereq. Just like "Race: Elf or Half-Elf" is a prereq for the arcane archer. -Jindl
Pitlords 06-14-05, 03:01 PM	Human, it is but since we have no region called Thay you can ignore that prerequisite
Zerone 06-14-05, 04:34 PM	'ello all. I've a new character who wishes to quest for an animal companion. Any Questlord takers? *•. Z
Jindl 06-14-05, 04:35 PM	'ello all. I've a new character who wishes to quest for an animal companion. Any Questlord takers? *•. Z I'll do it. Send me the info.
Zerone 06-14-05, 04:51 PM	Jindl has informed me that Pixies are always NG; but that pertains to the NPC variety. Is it against the rules to have a PC Pixie of an alignment other than NG? Thanks for the help, *•. Z
Jindl 06-14-05, 05:13 PM	Jindl has informed me that Pixies are always NG; but that pertains to the NPC variety. Is it against the rules to have a PC Pixie of an alignment other than NG? Thanks for the help, *•. Z While we wait for others comments, I would like to point out that the issue has been discussed at length and resolved before, with the final say being that "Always means always." I think the other Elder's all remember the discussion (and unfortunately, I think it occurred while Zoro was on break). If anyone can link the discussion, it would be appreciated. -Jindl
Pitlords 06-14-05, 05:40 PM	I think the main argument was that if we allow "always" to mean "1 in a million" then this would be the same like saying "can have any alignment" because, well, you play this one in a million type, and the other pixie is another one in a million pixie. What we can do to allow different alignments for "always" yet still make it a rarity, is to have it cost credits. After all, always does mean one in a million. Perhaps 5° per step away from the preset alignment? So a fallen CE hound archon costs 20°. A pixie paladin 5°. And dang, another way to spend credits. Elders? Jindl/Zoro: Is this going to be a miniquest?
Zerone 06-14-05, 05:43 PM	While we wait for others comments, I would like to point out that the issue has been discussed at length and resolved before, with the final say being that "Always means always." I think the other Elder's all remember the discussion (and unfortunately, I think it occurred while Zero was on break). If anyone can link the discussion, it would be appreciated. -Jindl The only thing I have to add/mention is that in the 'Pixies as Characters' section there is no alignment restriction.
Pitlords 06-14-05, 05:46 PM	The only thing I have to add/mention is that in the 'Pixies as Characters' section there is no alignment restriction. There never is in this section. It's mentioned in the creature entry. But see above for solutions to your dilemma.
Luni 06-14-05, 06:04 PM	Caterane, can you add the change to power stone pricing to the FAQ? This way, it is much easier for people to find out about all the rule changes, just by looking through the FAQ. Also, you still got Varia II on the character list. You need to change it to Ariel please.
Zerone 06-14-05, 06:11 PM	Just noticed this in the Glossary in the MM... Alignment: Always: The creature is born with the indicated alignment. The creature may have a hereditary predisposition to the alignment or come from a plane that predetermines it. It is possible for individuals to change alignment, but such individuals are either unique or rare exceptions. Don't want to spend any more credits than necessary, but credit expenditure is a fair solution. This method of changing alignment could also be used if a character started out as one alignment and now wishes to switch to another? This would be a miniquest, correct Jindl? *•. Z
Jindl 06-14-05, 06:18 PM	Since it is a 1 time credit cost, I think 10 credits (regardless of how many steps away from the original alignment it is) should be fair. Just so you know, there are other ways to change alignment without credit cost (see helm of opposite alignment), but they won't make a pixie lawful good. AFAIK, it would be a miniquest to obtain the dire bat. -Jindl
Zerone 06-14-05, 06:41 PM	The thing I like about Cat's proposal is that it is relative to how much you plan on deviating from the norm. There has to be roleplaying reasons as to why the character in question is changing alignment, and this is usually a tramatic experience. Let's take Anakin/Darth Vader for instance... :gah: Noooooooooooooooooo! (http://darthno.ytmnd.com/) Ack, wait, let's not... :twitch: :tantrum: What do the rest of you think?
Malither76 06-14-05, 06:42 PM	speaking of alingment, I got a question, Baelin "The Shadow" is listed as neutral, but has been on now his 3rd assassination mission and would like to take the assassin prestige class when he gets there would anyone have a problem with his alignment shifting to NE, I don't believe that is too far from the truth I know in a table top game if I was True N but continued to do evil acts my DM would shift my alignment, but I wanted to ask
Jindl 06-14-05, 07:22 PM	The thing I like about Cat's proposal is that it is relative to how much you plan on deviating from the norm. There has to be roleplaying reasons as to why the character in question is changing alignment, and this is usually a tramatic experience. The problem is that we'll see to many nuetrals and not enough of the normal LG, LE, CE, CG aligns. Making it a flat cost means it doesn't cost extra if you want to be CE instead of NE. -Jindl
Megrim_Lord 06-14-05, 07:29 PM	I think the main argument was that if we allow "always" to mean "1 in a million" then this would be the same like saying "can have any alignment" because, well, you play this one in a million type, and the other pixie is another one in a million pixie. What we can do to allow different alignments for "always" yet still make it a rarity, is to have it cost credits. After all, always does mean one in a million. Perhaps 5° per step away from the preset alignment? So a fallen CE hound archon costs 20°. A pixie paladin 5°. And dang, another way to spend credits. Elders? Jindl/Zoro: Is this going to be a miniquest? well, as most people are aware, one in a million chances usually happen in three out of four party members in any normal D&D game, so I'm apprehensive, plus for a mostly RP based change, the credit cost is really painful
Pitlords 06-14-05, 07:34 PM	Caterane, can you add the change to power stone pricing to the FAQ? This way, it is much easier for people to find out about all the rule changes, just by looking through the FAQ. Also, you still got Varia II on the character list. You need to change it to Ariel please. Yes, Ma'am. It has been added to the FAQ: House Rules section. If anyone spots a mistake in the FAQ, please don't hesitate to tell me! Speaking of house rules: although I've formerly added my vote to the +2 aid bonus while grappling mounted, I've never been satisfied with this solution. Since the Elders couldn't come to a decision, I have thought about it anew and I think I have a good solution: Misc: Grappling while mounted Decision: If you want to grapple someone who is mounted, the opponoment rider gets a +4 bonus per size category difference between you and his mount. He will never suffer a penalty though in case his mount is smaller than you. That spares us the +2 aid another roll, and the bonus is not a flat +2 but depends on the size of the mount. Getting a halfling off of a dire elephant should be much more difficult than pulling him from Oz' riding dog (of course in that specific case he might have gotten constricted by the bundle of 200 arrows lol). Alignment: I think the 5° per step cost is the better solution. Playing a neutral good hound archon is still much more realistic than a CE one. With a relative credit cost, evil angels are much rarer than those that are only slightly more chaotic than their fellows but still heavenly good. I'll add that to the FAQ. @Zoro: You have 13°. You need 8° for the pixie. That leaves you with 5° which you need for the alignment shift. There's no room for the cloak+1 then. Please confirm.
Malither76 06-14-05, 08:04 PM	I still don't get why you guys are house ruleing Grappling, it covers this in rules of the Game, if your opponent is on a mount you join him on the mount if the mount can support both of you, if not you stand adjacent with your opponent in a hold. your mount does get an AoO when you start the grapple unless you have the improved grapple feat. If your mount decides to move you fall off unless you make the opposed grapple check then you drag the other guy along, I don't know why we are changing this stuff, Skipp Williams put pretty much in black and white for us unless there is somthing I'm missing why you want the change
Iced 06-14-05, 09:19 PM	Say I Crafted a +1 Greatsword. If I wanted to add another +1(say by adding ghost touch ability) at a later time, would I be able to? If I have the craft wands feat do I have to pay credits if I want to craft a wand of Fly?
Zerone 06-14-05, 10:17 PM	@Zoro: You have 13°. You need 8° for the pixie. That leaves you with 5° which you need for the alignment shift. There's no room for the cloak+1 then. Please confirm. Yes, I was painfully aware of that... Please set my Fights to 2 per week and no Psionics for right now. I'll send a PM to Pitlords also. I'll delete the Cloak of Charisma, +1 for now. :P I think this should be voted on by the Elders to make it official (as to which way is best). For now I'll do it Cat's way and then if it is ruled otherwise I'll change accordingly. Thanks, Also, what's the button combo for the '°' symbol? I can't find it... ie. hold down Alt and press 0 1 4 9 = • *•. Z Say I Crafted a +1 Greatsword. If I wanted to add another +1(say by adding ghost touch ability) at a later time, would I be able to? Yes, you just pay the difference. If I have the craft wands feat do I have to pay credits if I want to craft a wand of Fly? Yes, as there is no Wand of Flying in the DMG.
Jindl 06-14-05, 10:31 PM	I still don't get why you guys are house ruleing Grappling, it covers this in rules of the Game, if your opponent is on a mount you join him on the mount if the mount can support both of you, if not you stand adjacent with your opponent in a hold. your mount does get an AoO when you start the grapple unless you have the improved grapple feat. If your mount decides to move you fall off unless you make the opposed grapple check then you drag the other guy along, I don't know why we are changing this stuff, Skipp Williams put pretty much in black and white for us unless there is somthing I'm missing why you want the change Cat just didn't realize it, but this is why the Elders stopped discussing/voting on the issue.
Zerone 06-14-05, 11:23 PM	@ The Jive Machine: Please look at the Character Violations thread, as Ammenyennon has a few things that need fixing.
Zerone 06-14-05, 11:42 PM	@ darkpoet1987: Please look at the Character Violations thread, as Joseph Rayne has a few things that need fixing.
Malither76 06-15-05, 01:18 AM	Cool thanks Jindi, just making sure.
Pitlords 06-15-05, 07:30 AM	I still don't get why you guys are house ruleing Grappling, it covers this in rules of the Game, if your opponent is on a mount you join him on the mount if the mount can support both of you, if not you stand adjacent with your opponent in a hold. your mount does get an AoO when you start the grapple unless you have the improved grapple feat. If your mount decides to move you fall off unless you make the opposed grapple check then you drag the other guy along, I don't know why we are changing this stuff, Skipp Williams put pretty much in black and white for us unless there is somthing I'm missing why you want the change Ok, changed that in the FAQ. @Elders: If you already know what you will vote on fascinate then please do it now so that we can close this issue before next pairings.
Jindl 06-15-05, 11:23 AM	@Elders: If you already know what you will vote on fascinate then please do it now so that we can close this issue before next pairings. Hrm, what do you think my vote is ... On another topic: Is the healing from Lay on Hands subject to the 1/3rd rule? For my current fight I'm assuming its not, but from reading the desciption, it cures a # of hps per day, so it actually might be subject to the 1/3rd rule. Thoughts?
Caterane 06-15-05, 12:40 PM	Per Coliseum RAW yes. Do you think this should be handled differently?
Pittbull 06-15-05, 12:42 PM	I think, lay on hands should be handled differently.
SoulLord 06-15-05, 01:01 PM	Ok it has been ruled that one only needs to be a human to be a red wizard Now i'm interested in one particular ability at 7th level they can scribe a tatoo on willing targets. feat Tatoo focus [special] prerequisite: specialized school of magic benefit: add +1 to the dc for all saving throws of your specialized school <rest snipped> so the thing is. Since the class is allowed in gladius and the feat is core can anyone (not nesesarily a human apprentice) pay the wizard to take the feat? *as a note the feat is a prerequisite to take the class.
Zerone 06-15-05, 01:19 PM	Ok it has been ruled that one only needs to be a human to be a red wizard Now i'm interested in one particular ability at 7th level they can scribe a tatoo on willing targets. feat Tatoo focus [special] prerequisite: specialized school of magic benefit: add +1 to the dc for all saving throws of your specialized school <rest snipped> so the thing is. Since the class is allowed in gladius and the feat is core can anyone (not nesesarily a human apprentice) pay the wizard to take the feat? *as a note the feat is a prerequisite to take the class. Any race can just take the feat as it has no racial prerequisites...
Caterane 06-15-05, 01:44 PM	News from the Front: Change Alignment: You can spend credits to change your character's alignment. For every step your new alignment is away from your previous one, you have to pay 5°. Likewise, you can play a race with an aligment entry of "always" that has a different alignment than the entry suggests. You have to pay 5° for every step the alignment differs from the one in the entry.
Malither76 06-15-05, 01:58 PM	Ok I'm a little confused here, so Do I need to pay 5 credits to shift The Shadow to NE, I can understand if your trying to play somthing that is normally one way and you want to play it another but this is a case of a neutral character letting greed get the better of him and finding that he likes killing people, in a table top he would have been forced by now with his actions to shift to evil even if I didn't want to go down that path. if need be I will pay the credits when I get ready to take the prestiege class, but I don't think you should have to pay for something that can be roleplayed out, come to think of it thats a good idea, why not let the character quest to do this, make it a 3 week quest were the character will be faced with things that could alter his alignment, I think Shadow fullfilled this with now assassinating around 10 people this includes henchmen in the quest. and this also makes them pay a credit cost of 3 which I feel is adequate, anyone else? thanks
Caterane 06-15-05, 02:05 PM	Without that rule, everyone could change alignment like his underwear. Face Ixenthor? Quickly change from evil to neutral for one fight. A quest costs 6° and 3 weeks. Additionally, there are already many Quest requirements; I don't want to delegate everything to quests. A roleplaying component should always be included in an alignment change.
Malither76 06-15-05, 02:16 PM	yeah I get what your saying, so I will just need to pay the 5 credits when he goes to level 6 in order to take that level as an assassin level right?
KerlanRayne 06-15-05, 03:43 PM	Is there any way to get a Half Dragon Light Warhorse as a mount? KerlanRayne
Caterane 06-15-05, 03:50 PM	Is there any way to get a Half Dragon Light Warhorse as a mount? KerlanRayne Unfortunately no. You can buy a horse, but not a half-dragon horse. You can quest and use handle animal on an animal but not on a dragon. Perhaps dominate monster?
Zerone 06-15-05, 03:53 PM	Unfortunately no. You can buy a horse, but not a half-dragon horse. You can quest and use handle animal on an animal but not on a dragon. Perhaps dominate monster? Don't forget the Leadership feat... ;) *•. Z
Sindorin 06-15-05, 03:57 PM	Don't forget the Leadership feat... ;) *•. Z Well, you would still need to recruit a cohort with an LA +x (cohort) at least. That strikes a chord here though, what would happen if you did add a +3 LA template to an animal that has a level adjustment of "-"?
Huan 06-15-05, 04:14 PM	Well, you would still need to recruit a cohort with an LA +x (cohort) at least. That strikes a chord here though, what would happen if you did add a +3 LA template to an animal that has a level adjustment of "-"? For Monsters like that, would we not add the +X to its HD for ECL? So then, that would make it an ECL 6 creature. (though the CR would be 3)
Caterane 06-15-05, 04:33 PM	You cannot take a LA "-" creature as a leadership cohort because it has no ECL.
Zerone 06-15-05, 04:35 PM	Hmmm... Yes, I wouyld think that it would then be a LA +3 magical beast. On a different topic, I thought I read somewhere that Teiflings were proficient in all Martial Weapons, and Jindl's character 'Aku' is based on this - did it change? And how do you make the degrees symbol on a keyboard? Example... Hold down Alt and press 0149 to get •... Alt 0176 = °... never mind... :D *•. Z
Cerebus13 06-15-05, 04:42 PM	Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.From the Types & Subtypes section pertaining to Outsiders.
SoulLord 06-15-05, 04:43 PM	Quick question How are new spells handled for new characters I suspect it's #1 Pay for a scroll with the appropiate spells #2 pay the cost of scribing it into your spellbook SL x 100 but there are spellcraft checks to understand the spells can one just assume that they were sucessful no matter what the spellcraft total is?
Caterane 06-15-05, 04:58 PM	Check the FAQ: NPC Services. Section: Copying Spellbooks
SoulLord 06-15-05, 05:16 PM	I see, but I assume no roll is needed to understand the spell before copying it into the spellbook? from the srd Spells Copied from Another’s Spellbook or a Scroll A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Next, she must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell’s level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from her specialty school. She cannot, however, learn any spells from her prohibited schools. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into her spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, below). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.
Cerebus13 06-15-05, 05:27 PM	Typically with skills & rolls that have a consequence (which scribing does) the CoCo only allows you to take 10 on the roll. So in order to scribe a scroll you would need +X bonus for Spellcraft, where X = 5 + Spell Level. You get an additional +2 on the roll if the spell is in your specialized school.
SoulLord 06-15-05, 05:31 PM	Excelent thanks for the input, that was what I was looking for.
Zerone 06-15-05, 07:24 PM	Nothing against Iced or the other combatants, but I don't think that is fair to be assigned to a team battle. If people want a team battle they should request/ask for one. This is unfair and I would have different equipment for a team battle, plus discussing a team strategy is not something I was preparing for. If I was going to ‘team battle’ I would have a teammate and plan already in the works. On a role-playing level, why is my character allied with a Chaotic Evil character? Granted, Saya has no documented ‘history’ as of yet, but Chaotic Evil is the extreme of both, as Lawful Good would also be… This makes no sense.
Megrim_Lord 06-15-05, 07:41 PM	a curiosity, does a lycanthrope have to take the feats of the base animal or can they be modified?
Megrim_Lord 06-15-05, 07:48 PM	oh, and Cat, could you please retire Dr. Salvador? I have a new, more true version of him coming up for the Lvl 3 league, based on the real Dr. Salvador
Luni 06-15-05, 10:22 PM	@all: I should post this now, before it comes up in a match. Can a supernatural ability (Su) be activated while grappling?
xanadu 06-15-05, 10:24 PM	oh, and Cat, could you please retire Dr. Salvador? I have a new, more true version of him coming up for the Lvl 3 league, based on the real Dr. Salvador Who's the real Dr. Salvador?
Jindl 06-15-05, 11:31 PM	Is there any way to get a Half Dragon Light Warhorse as a mount? KerlanRayne Not that I can think of. However, you could get a Half Dragon Pegasus with the leadership feat, and it would look pretty much the same (and be a lot better!) Nothing against Iced or the other combatants, but I don't think that is fair to be assigned to a team battle. If people want a team battle they should request/ask for one. This is unfair and I would have different equipment for a team battle, plus discussing a team strategy is not something I was preparing for. If I was going to ‘team battle’ I would have a teammate and plan already in the works. On a role-playing level, why is my character allied with a Chaotic Evil character? Granted, Saya has no documented ‘history’ as of yet, but Chaotic Evil is the extreme of both, as Lawful Good would also be… This makes no sense. It is an arena battle, arranged by Joe the Arena Coordinator (and don't even think of assassinating him, he's significantly more powerful than any active character). Sometimes the most entertaining battles are when hated enemies are forced to be teammates... a curiosity, does a lycanthrope have to take the feats of the base animal or can they be modified? Yes, they must. I'll be happy to help with any lycanthrope crafting (I've been through the process more than a few times). @all: I should post this now, before it comes up in a match. Can a supernatural ability (Su) be activated while grappling? Yes, and it doesn't require a concentration check, a grapple check, or provoke an AoO. -Jindl
xanadu 06-15-05, 11:39 PM	Is damage done by a swarm suceptible to damage reduction? Or since bites do pierceing, bludgeoning, and slashing it bypasses stuff like 5/slashing but not 5/magic?
Jindl 06-15-05, 11:57 PM	Is damage done by a swarm suceptible to damage reduction? Or since bites do pierceing, bludgeoning, and slashing it bypasses stuff like 5/slashing but not 5/magic? Correct on both accounts.
Iced 06-16-05, 01:33 AM	I will be leaving for vacation this friday. I'll be returning the monday of the week after-next.
Deadly Assassin 06-16-05, 02:03 AM	Hey, I'm new here and was wondering if I could get some help making a character? My AIM is deadlypresence47 and MSN is deadlypresence47@hotmail.com. I've read the quickstart guide and am still confused.
Caterane 06-16-05, 03:44 AM	Nothing against Iced or the other combatants, but I don't think that is fair to be assigned to a team battle. If people want a team battle they should request/ask for one. This is unfair and I would have different equipment for a team battle, plus discussing a team strategy is not something I was preparing for. If I was going to ‘team battle’ I would have a teammate and plan already in the works. On a role-playing level, why is my character allied with a Chaotic Evil character? Granted, Saya has no documented ‘history’ as of yet, but Chaotic Evil is the extreme of both, as Lawful Good would also be… This makes no sense. From the FAQ: Team Fights: These work similar to the Standard Arena Fight but include more than 2 gladiators up to a maximum of 8 gladiators. This kind of fight may be requested (by writing it into the headline) or randomly decided by the GM who rolls the pairings. In the former case, the gladiators may be of any level and any combination with a maximum difference in ECL of +2 between the gladiators, and the players may decide who is in which team. In case the GM picks the team fight randomly, he also determines the teams. All gladiators must come from the same league but other than that, there is no guarantee that you won't end up in a team fight. This is up for several weeks now. The online roller decided the combatants. Sometimes a LG paladin has to kill another LG paladin. Alignments are never an issue in an arena fight.
Sindorin 06-16-05, 03:52 AM	I take it there was a shortage of pitlords available? The thing is, no one is prepared, so I don't think anything is wrong. No one suddenly has an advantage. The only thing I am a bit miffed about is having to face Gurvix for the second week in a row... evidently we both think we won the fight last week, so I guess this week will be the determinant...
xanadu 06-16-05, 04:08 AM	Hey, I'm new here and was wondering if I could get some help making a character? My AIM is deadlypresence47 and MSN is deadlypresence47@hotmail.com. I've read the quickstart guide and am still confused. Deadly Assassin, First off Hi :) Secondly, yes the all the info in the quickstart guide can be overwhelming...don't just read the quickstart guide, read the FAQ! It isn't that long and will answer many of the basic questions (36 point buy, 3rd level, legal races, starting gold, etc.). Getting the basics of your character up will make it much easier for us to help you out.
Jindl 06-16-05, 04:12 AM	Deadly Assassin, First off Hi :) Secondly, yes the all the info in the quickstart guide can be overwhelming...don't just read the quickstart guide, read the FAQ! It isn't that long and will answer many of the basic questions (36 point buy, 3rd level, legal races, starting gold, etc.). Getting the basics of your character up will make it much easier for us to help you out. And of course, the most important thing, Core only (PHB, DMG, MM, and online SRD). Welcome! -Jindl
Deadly Assassin 06-16-05, 04:23 AM	Thanks for all the help offers guys, I appreciate it. Sindorin helped me out though, so I shall go post my char for you guys to look over and nit-pick. ;)
Caterane 06-16-05, 04:47 AM	@all Questlords and Campaignlords: It is important that you use the correct title for your Quest. There will be a board pruning soon. I have requested to spare some threads, including all Quests and Campaigns and it has been ok'd but in order to find all, the title must clear. Ok, so from now on, every Quest/Campaign title must look like this: Quest - "TITLE" (EL) Campaign - "TITLE" (EL) No more, no less.
Deadly Assassin 06-16-05, 04:50 AM	Oh, btw, I just got YIM. My name is deadlyassassin47, and I'm on now.
Rim-Soulfang 06-16-05, 08:31 AM	I recieved this from LLMadCow, and i don't know what im supposed to do with it.Just so everyone knows: There are few changes that need to be made to Dunewalkers character sheet, but will have to wait until after the current fight. 1st - Current xp is 7,800 (not 7,050) 2nd - Gold this round is 1,200 (not 450) 3rd - Gold remaining is 2,250 (not 1,700) 4th - Fight 6 needs to include 2 Potions: CLW as being used. 5th - Fight 6 is a win with +1,200xp/gp Just an FYI Brian
Sunwolf 06-16-05, 09:14 AM	@Rim-Soulfang He sent it to me too. He is informing us of corrections to his character sheet since he can't fix them until after the fight. I don't see anything that would affect this weeks fight.
darkpoet1987 06-16-05, 10:10 AM	Well, now that I feel a little more comfortable around the board, I thought I might as well introduce myself. Don't mind the insanely cliched screen name, it's one I've used for several years, so it grew on me. In any event, I've played D&D for a year now, and, well, the damn game is addictive. My normal group is starting to either pick up more hours at work and a couple people are getting ready to start college(including me), so I figured I might want to get involved in a place where I can play from my home, since things might get a tad bit rough. I'm looking forward to being an active member of this community.
Zerone 06-16-05, 10:19 AM	I will be leaving for vacation this friday. I'll be returning the monday of the week after-next. Are you going to have enough time to work out plans for the 2 on 2 fight (which I do not want to partake in)? What happens if he cannot? I get punished because of some one elses mistake? I don't like being 'forced' to do something... The only thing that I'm unhappy with is that a 2 on 2 battle changes the arena away from 'how good is your build' to 'hope you get a good partner'. Now I have to depend on random luck and some one else, something that I have absolutely no control over. Not a very good representation of how good my character build is. Also, I thought that characters were not supposed to fight each other in back to back weeks?
SoulLord 06-16-05, 10:34 AM	Well I am looking forward for this fight. I think it will be fun at least for me. I just have one doubt do the team members start in the same starting box or is everyone assigned a different box at random? zerone: maybe if iced doesnt send tactics you can use the opportunity to write tactics for both of you :)
Cerebus13 06-16-05, 10:40 AM	I think it will be fun at least for me. I just have one doubt do the team members start in the same starting box or is everyone assigned a different box at random?That's a good question.....Caterane, do team members start in the same box or different ones?
Iced 06-16-05, 10:45 AM	Are you going to have enough time to work out plans for the 2 on 2 fight (which I do not want to partake in)? What happens if he cannot? I get punished because of some one elses mistake? I don't like being 'forced' to do something... The only thing that I'm unhappy with is that a 2 on 2 battle changes the arena away from 'how good is your build' to 'hope you get a good partner'. Now I have to depend on random luck and some one else, something that I have absolutely no control over. Not a very good representation of how good my character build is. Also, I thought that characters were not supposed to fight each other in back to back weeks? Of course since we haven't had time to plan this out really, feel free to write tactics for Gurvix... :D I'm sure you will be much happier for it anyway. Good luck!
Zerone 06-16-05, 10:52 AM	Well I am looking forward for this fight. I think it will be fun at least for me. I just have one doubt do the team members start in the same starting box or is everyone assigned a different box at random? zerone: maybe if iced doesnt send tactics you can use the opportunity to write tactics for both of you :) Please see my post in the FotW thread. I also think that 2 vs. 2 battles would be fun, if given the oppertunity to choose a partner. So, please, do not take anything said (past or future) against one of the other 3 combatants (Iced, SoulLord, Sindorin) or their characters. Thanks for your understanding, Zerone
Luni 06-16-05, 01:17 PM	After reading some past fights I have a question. I've noticed that some people are treating full round actions as 2 standard actions. Where does it say that you can do that in the rules? The main problems with this are sleep and Coup de Grace. They start casting sleep in round 1, move, and then in round 2 finish casting the spell. Unless I'm missing something, this isn't possible.
Cerebus13 06-16-05, 01:29 PM	After reading some past fights I have a question. I've noticed that some people are treating full round actions as 2 standard actions. Where does it say that you can do that in the rules? The main problems with this are sleep and Coup de Grace. They start casting sleep in round 1, move, and then in round 2 finish casting the spell. Unless I'm missing something, this isn't possible.It is legal due to this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#startCompleteFullRou ndAction) action. Only things you can't start are full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.
SoulLord 06-16-05, 01:32 PM	indeed from the srd Start/Complete Full-Round Action The "start full-round action" standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can’t use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.
Luni 06-16-05, 01:41 PM	I've never heard of that. I stand corrected. Thanks Cerebus. Guess I don't know everything. The "start full-round action" standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can’t use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.
Sindorin 06-16-05, 02:03 PM	Well, now that I feel a little more comfortable around the board, I thought I might as well introduce myself. Don't mind the insanely cliched screen name, it's one I've used for several years, so it grew on me. In any event, I've played D&D for a year now, and, well, the damn game is addictive. My normal group is starting to either pick up more hours at work and a couple people are getting ready to start college(including me), so I figured I might want to get involved in a place where I can play from my home, since things might get a tad bit rough. I'm looking forward to being an active member of this community. Awesome, someone that's been playing about as long as I have! (I've been playing for a year and a half)
Sindorin 06-16-05, 02:12 PM	Just a quick note (advertisement): My campaign is still looking for 2-4 more ECL 3-4 characters. Send me a PM if interested.
Megrim_Lord 06-16-05, 07:35 PM	hey, I was websurfing and you'll never believe what I've found, and UPDATED d20 3.5 D&D srd with unearthed arcana options in it! gaze upon it's glory (check the variant rules section)! Updated SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/)
King Uther 06-16-05, 07:40 PM	As an addendum to Sindorin's advertisement: If you cannot the 5-credits needed to participate in a campaign, PM me and I might pay it for you.
xanadu 06-16-05, 07:50 PM	hey, I was websurfing and you'll never believe what I've found, and UPDATED d20 3.5 D&D srd with unearthed arcana options in it! gaze upon it's glory (check the variant rules section)! Updated SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/) I actually like that one better as it is easier to navigate and have used it for sometime now. Alas, I doubt it is "official"
Caterane 06-16-05, 09:02 PM	As an addendum to Sindorin's advertisement: If you cannot the 5-credits needed to participate in a campaign, PM me and I might pay it for you. Hm, Ixenthor wants to go on a Campaign :smirk: Need your opinions, guys. Which FAQ layout do you like more: This one with quotes or This one without
Iced 06-16-05, 09:08 PM	Hey I'm still looking for players also! If you're evil and want to go on a campaign here's your chance!
Cerebus13 06-16-05, 09:23 PM	Hm, Ixenthor wants to go on a Campaign :smirk: Need your opinions, guys. Which FAQ layout do you like more: This one with quotes or This one withoutI like the one without quotes, seems to flow better.
Sindorin 06-16-05, 09:40 PM	@ all CampaignLords: Advertising works! I candidly posted the above advertisement and within an hour I had three applications! With that said, my campaign, "Faded Fate" has enough applicants for a full party pending Megrim_Lord's creation of a level three. I am setting a date for the beginning of this campaign to start on Wednesday June 29, but if everything gets arranged we can begin next wednesday at the time of the next pairings! Stay tuned! I'm still looking for one person, but any are welcome to apply as long as you are level 3 or 4.
Deadly Assassin 06-17-05, 03:12 AM	Awesome, someone that's been playing about as long as I have! (I've been playing for a year and a half) Well, that makes two of us. This isn't my original name; my last one my little sister went and changed the password and didn't tell me, and then conveniently forgot it. :rolleyes: After that I stopped coming to the boards for a while, and just got back into them. I don't even remember my old name anymore, hehe.
Pitlords 06-17-05, 04:56 AM	Well, that makes two of us. This isn't my original name; my last one my little sister went and changed the password and didn't tell me, and then conveniently forgot it. :rolleyes: After that I stopped coming to the boards for a while, and just got back into them. I don't even remember my old name anymore, hehe. Sure, you can take levels in any core prestige class. See here for more information on PrC.
Deadly Assassin 06-17-05, 05:48 AM	Another question; how many credits does a starting character get?
Deadly Assassin 06-17-05, 06:30 AM	Hm, Ixenthor wants to go on a Campaign :smirk: Need your opinions, guys. Which FAQ layout do you like more: This one with quotes or This one without As a noob, I find both just as easy to read.
bgt 06-17-05, 06:52 AM	Another question; how many credits does a starting character get? None. You must work for your credits.
Deadly Assassin 06-17-05, 07:06 AM	None. You must work for your credits. Then how can a new character spend credits to start at a higher level?
Salrantol 06-17-05, 07:48 AM	Credits are not property of a character, they belong to a player. You can use credits earned by pitlording, questlording, campaignlording, or auditing (or any other means I may have missed) to create additional characters with rare or unique gear or extra levels or strange alignments, etc.
Cerebus13 06-17-05, 08:11 AM	Situation: You boost your charisma with a magical item, Cloak of Charisma lets say, and get the Leadership feat. This extra charisma lets you get up to an ECL-2 cohort. What would happen if during a battle your opponent say....cast Mage's Disjunction on you and your cloak was destroyed, thus dropping your charisma below what is required for an ECL-2 Leadership cohort? Edit: Oh and...your cohort is present for this battle as well.
Zerone 06-17-05, 08:58 AM	Hm, Ixenthor wants to go on a Campaign :smirk: Need your opinions, guys. Which FAQ layout do you like more: This one with quotes or This one without Cat, I sort of like the Quote variant a little more... Perhaps 'sblocking' the text so that only the questions are visible would be easier? It would help in searching for the question you are looking for, as there would be less tracking up and down, and it's be easier to not lose your place if you followed a link, etc., as only the questions you are looking at would be open... *•. Z
Pitlords 06-17-05, 09:15 AM	@all: Do you know of a good World Map Maker? It's really important because Uther, Huan, and I are working on a map of the continent, and we'd like to have the best looking map!! We currently have AutoRealm and Fractal Mapper available.
Kaigan 06-17-05, 09:58 AM	@All: Still looking for players for the Drums of War campaign, please PM me or email me if you are interested.
Jindl 06-17-05, 12:13 PM	Situation: You boost your charisma with a magical item, Cloak of Charisma lets say, and get the Leadership feat. This extra charisma lets you get up to an ECL-2 cohort. What would happen if during a battle your opponent say....cast Mage's Disjunction on you and your cloak was destroyed, thus dropping your charisma below what is required for an ECL-2 Leadership cohort? Edit: Oh and...your cohort is present for this battle as well. If your charisma remained at the lower level for a significant period of time (say a week or so) then your cohort would become disatisfied and probably leave. But within the fight, there would be no effect on your ability to have that cohort. -Jindl
King Uther 06-17-05, 12:14 PM	ANNOUNCEMENT!!!!!!: The E.H.T.C. has excellent benefits for evil gladiators. Full dental and health insurance. As well as an entire army of PCs to back you up. A couple of slots need to be filled, and this is the list: 1. General - Virgo needs a strong, commanding character to lead the troops by around ECL 12-14. If you think you would like to create a character who gets to shake things up, do so. Even if you start at ECL 3, you can get there with Quests about the time the good-characters get there. PM me about it and we'll go from there. 2. Cleric - A good commander of the undead to supplement the main army. 3. Main Tactician - This can be anyone from any class. If multiple people want the job(the position won't be open for a few months), a tournament will be set up to determine who gets it. And yes I expect to have that many members by then. 4. Evil Bard - Just need one.
Huan 06-17-05, 01:01 PM	A new Campaign The Grand Heists (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6468284#post6468284) is open and looking for players. Expect this campaign to roll along similarly to the movies Mission: Impossible, Ocean's Eleven, The Tomas Crown Affair, or The Great Train Robbery in terms of the scale of complexity and prizes available for the taking. So, come in and steal something grand... if you can. ;) (Campaign starts July 13th) Otherwise, the Campaign The Arbiter War (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=445358) has the requisite number of players to start. If you had still wanted to join, you are still free to message me and make everyone else sweat in terms of being picked. EDIT: I thank everyone who has applied/is applying to the Arbiter War Campaign. I wish I could take everyone along for the adventure, but sadly only 5 can go. Therefore, in two weeks (1 week before the capaign start), I will finalize the team based on some strict but fair criteria (mostly RP and Party Role). But please, keep submitting characters and try to get in! With both campaigns, should a team member require credits, I would be willing to loan the necesessary amount to them.
Pitlords 06-17-05, 02:44 PM	Has anyone a good picture for the Rules of Gladius thread in mind? Or at hand?
Megrim_Lord 06-17-05, 02:50 PM	I actually like that one better as it is easier to navigate and have used it for sometime now. Alas, I doubt it is "official" it's as official as any other, because without WotC permission to post it, they'd be hit with a lawsuit faster than you can say "fair use clause"
SoulLord 06-17-05, 02:59 PM	As long as its only their open game content, I dont think a lawsuit is in order, in fact the owner of the site takes a great deal of care to insure that no illegal content is on the site.
Huan 06-17-05, 03:06 PM	The first two images that jumped to mind for that thread so far are (I thought 'Library'): http://www.geocities.com/luken55/Pics/Library2.jpg http://www.geocities.com/luken55/Pics/Library1.jpg
Megrim_Lord 06-17-05, 03:10 PM	As long as its only their open game content, I dont think a lawsuit is in order, in fact the owner of the site takes a great deal of care to insure that no illegal content is on the site. exactly, which proves my point that is just as official as any other SRD
Sindorin 06-17-05, 03:16 PM	Faded Fate also has 5 applicants thus far, which is enough for a full party with all party roles filled (healer, casters, tanks, etc). But by all means, you can still apply. This campaign may start sooner than expected due to the turnout. Note: if you told me that you will be making a character for the campaign but have not made it yet, you may want to do so and then let me know so I can add it to the roster.
Megrim_Lord 06-17-05, 04:32 PM	Faded Fate also has 5 applicants thus far, which is enough for a full party with all party roles filled (healer, casters, tanks, etc). But by all means, you can still apply. This campaign may start sooner than expected due to the turnout. Note: if you told me that you will be making a character for the campaign but have not made it yet, you may want to do so and then let me know so I can add it to the roster. my character need not be added to the roster, as it isn't ready and wont be, so good luck, have fun with the campaign
Salrantol 06-17-05, 07:43 PM	4. Evil Bard - Just need one. Why do you need an evil bard when you have a Commander of Trade Defense ready to smite any alleged brigands you can scrounge up. (Aren't you glad detect evil isn't on the bard spell list?)
King Uther 06-17-05, 10:54 PM	True. Barak Brigandslayer is a wonderful pawn of evil.
King Uther 06-17-05, 10:56 PM	After the Hands of Death complete this next Quest, the Secretary of Defense position will be available. Let's have ourselves a fair election with no swaying of the public in any manner, unlike the last one. Or not. Anyways, if your character is interested, PM me and I'll converse with the boss and another election thread will be set up.
Megrim_Lord 06-18-05, 07:48 AM	hey, I was websurfing and you'll never believe what I've found, and UPDATED d20 3.5 D&D srd with unearthed arcana options in it! gaze upon it's glory (check the variant rules section)! Updated SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/) @ Cat: so, out of curiousity, can we use the updates or not?
SoulLord 06-18-05, 10:54 AM	I doubt they are core. Otherwise whats to stop us from using for example the web enhacements in WoTc site
Megrim_Lord 06-18-05, 10:57 AM	Sindorin, I remember asking a little while ago if I HAD to take the base animal's feats as a lycanthrope, and you said yes, well, I think I found something that refutes that statement Quoth the SRD —Racial Feats: Add the animal’s Hit Dice to the base character’s own Hit Dice to determine how many feats the character has. All lycanthropes gain Iron Will as a bonus feat. that seems to say that I get to choose my own feats, doesn't it?
Sindorin 06-18-05, 12:45 PM	I don't remember that, but okeydokey.
Megrim_Lord 06-18-05, 01:27 PM	I don't remember that, but okeydokey. maybe it was jindl then... but i know I had the conversation with somebody, maybe it's in the tavern 2
Pitlords 06-18-05, 02:54 PM	@ Cat: so, out of curiousity, can we use the updates or not? Definately not. A) That's not the official SRD, and B) even if it would be officially in the SRD, we'd have to check it, consider its impact on the system, and discuss wether this should be included in the Core Coliseum.
Megrim_Lord 06-18-05, 04:17 PM	I doubt they are core. Otherwise whats to stop us from using for example the web enhacements in WoTc site half of the "official" srd isn't core, so i think your point is moot :cool:
Megrim_Lord 06-18-05, 05:04 PM	ok, I know the alignment thing is in effect now, and i didn't want to, but I have to say something, because I really don't like it. I honestly wouldn't care if it were just for an alignment change after creation, but I really can't stand the fact that you make it so you are screwing with a character before they even come into the arena. It's like the DM telling me i can't be X creature with X alignment because he says so. By the rules of the forum and arena system all the other credit based limitations on character creation make perfect sense, but this is too much, people shouldn't be forced to play a character of an undesirable alignment just because their build's race has "always X" in it's stat block.
xanadu 06-18-05, 05:08 PM	Regarding alignment switches, I'd rather much discourage the lawful-chaotic monk/barbarians if possible.
Megrim_Lord 06-18-05, 05:13 PM	Regarding alignment switches, I'd rather much discourage the lawful-chaotic monk/barbarians if possible. why? it's not like they can't be beat, and I don't see many coming through the arena, so who cares? besides you lose barb abilities so you only gain monk benefits, not necessarily as helpful depending on the build
King Uther 06-18-05, 05:39 PM	A question I have is in the event of questing for an item, is the 3/4 rule for treasure applied? I'm sure it's not but just in case I thought I'd ask.
Sindorin 06-18-05, 06:21 PM	If you request to quest (heh) for a specific item, it doesn't have the 3/4 rule.
Jindl 06-18-05, 06:32 PM	ok, I know the alignment thing is in effect now, and i didn't want to, but I have to say something, because I really don't like it. I honestly wouldn't care if it were just for an alignment change after creation, but I really can't stand the fact that you make it so you are screwing with a character before they even come into the arena. It's like the DM telling me i can't be X creature with X alignment because he says so. By the rules of the forum and arena system all the other credit based limitations on character creation make perfect sense, but this is too much, people shouldn't be forced to play a character of an undesirable alignment just because their build's race has "always X" in it's stat block. You're welcome to not like it. However, it wasn't just a GM decision, it was an Elder decision, with the primary reason being that any exception to the alignment stated in the creature description requires DM approval. Since we don't have a DM, that approval cannot be given. The credit system allows us to simulate that approval with the expenditure of credits (you'll note that all credit expenditures are to gain things that would require DM approval, such as cohorts, allies, non-standard magic items, and alignment changes). Without this cost the intrinsic alignment of certain creatures becomes meaningless (and it is the intrinsic nature of the creature for a fey, outsider, or dragon to have the "Always <alignment>"). This is the only way such deviations can be made. -Jindl
Jindl 06-18-05, 06:33 PM	why? it's not like they can't be beat, and I don't see many coming through the arena, so who cares? besides you lose barb abilities so you only gain monk benefits, not necessarily as helpful depending on the build Monks do not lose their abilities if they become chaotic, which means a character can start as a monk and become a barbarian. One character (SPIKE) put this to great use and became a very powerful gladiator. He could still do that, but it would now have cost him 5 credits.
Megrim_Lord 06-18-05, 06:38 PM	Monks do not lose their abilities if they become chaotic, which means a character can start as a monk and become a barbarian. One character (SPIKE) put this to great use and became a very powerful gladiator. He could still do that, but it would now have cost him 5 credits. i know how it works, I'm just saying i don't see it often today and with the old arena's lower starting ECL, to be effective it would have been an IN CHARACTER alignment change in most cases, which is fine wth me credit wise, the issue with me is restricting alignment during character creation
Megrim_Lord 06-18-05, 06:40 PM	also, I don't suppose there are any arena core ECL 0 races with a bonus to wisdom? also, what's the first age where a +2 to mental stats is had?
xanadu 06-18-05, 06:51 PM	I'm sure there is an elf if you look hard enough, though it probably ain't core. "Old" - the second age catergory w/ minuses - gets a net +2 wisdom.
Megrim_Lord 06-18-05, 07:04 PM	ok then, one last question, it is my past experience with an ECL 3 druid that I could start with an animal companion, is this still true and would it apply to a higher level one?
Caterane 06-18-05, 08:18 PM	Re: Alignment - I couldn't explain it better than Jindl did. See credits as the amount of pizzas you'd have to buy your DM to get the go for your lawful good pitfiend. Re: Unearthed Arcana - Even IF it would be in the official SRD - which isn't the case and renders this discussion superflous anyway - even then we would have a long long discussion here and it is not sure if we would include it. The system works fine as it is (which hasn't been the case before we allowed psionics and divine stuff); any addition is a risk that I don't want to take at the moment. Re: Druid - I don't know to whom you are refering with "a higher one" (a higher druid or higher companion?), but since an animal companion comes automatically to the druid, you can have one from the beginning on.
Megrim_Lord 06-18-05, 08:34 PM	Re: Alignment - I couldn't explain it better than Jindl did. See credits as the amount of pizzas you'd have to buy your DM to get the go for your lawful good pitfiend. Re: Unearthed Arcana - Even IF it would be in the official SRD - which isn't the case and renders this discussion superflous anyway - even then we would have a long long discussion here and it is not sure if we would include it. The system works fine as it is (which hasn't been the case before we allowed psionics and divine stuff); any addition is a risk that I don't want to take at the moment. Re: Druid - I don't know to whom you are refering with "a higher one" (a higher druid or higher companion?), but since an animal companion comes automatically to the druid, you can have one from the beginning on. Align: but, Jindl DIDN'T explain it... at all... he made one reference to one powerful gladiator that has nothing to do with my argument that the cost should be excluded from the CREATION of a character. i dont know if spike changed his alignment before entry into the arena or during, but i still don't see the relevance to the issue i'm raising. Druid: i meant a higher level druid, i.e entering/created with a 7th level list dire wolverine vs. a 1st level list wolf
Caterane 06-18-05, 08:37 PM	Without this [credit] cost the intrinsic alignment of certain creatures becomes meaningless (and it is the intrinsic nature of the creature for a fey, outsider, or dragon to have the "Always <alignment>"). Re: druid: Yes, companion would be higher, according to your level.
Megrim_Lord 06-18-05, 08:51 PM	Well it's been stated before both by text and forumgoers that intrinsic alignments can and do change, and that most changes are very unique, however a single creature in the exponential numbers of it's race does not make it meaningless. as I've said before, one in a million chances happen in 3 out of 4 party members, and gladius is no exception, considering the fact that it is a natural draw for all sorts of outcasts and exiles from many races.
Caterane 06-18-05, 09:18 PM	No, it happens one in a million times according to the rules, and to properly reflect it we would forbid alignment changes with "always" altogether, or at least make the credit cost a million, too. Fortunately, it is only 5° per step.
King Uther 06-18-05, 09:32 PM	So I need only to buy 20 pizzas to play my Solar who comes from the wrong side of the tracks? He had terrible parents who beat him, and wants only to be loved. His chaotic evil personality prevents much friendship, and he's really mad he cannot be an Arcane Archer. I'd buy my DM more pizzas to ignore the elf requirements for Arcane Archer, but I'm afraid the cholesterol might kill him.
SoulLord 06-18-05, 10:22 PM	Quick question.... when at character creation time can we start our characters at any age category with the bonus and penalties this brings?
KerlanRayne 06-18-05, 10:33 PM	Quick question.... when at character creation time can we start our characters at any age category with the bonus and penalties this brings?Yes you can. KerlanRayne
Megrim_Lord 06-18-05, 10:35 PM	No, it happens one in a million times according to the rules, and to properly reflect it we would forbid alignment changes with "always" altogether, or at least make the credit cost a million, too. Fortunately, it is only 5° per step. huh? wait... how did that make sense?
Sindorin 06-19-05, 02:03 AM	Hehehe, it's time to spam the Tavern thread again... Attention all Faded Fate applicants: I have set the deadline for accepting applications for this campaign. The deadline to submit a PM applying for my campaign will be June 22, which is conveniently a Wednesday. I will select the members out of the group of applicants. If you are selected to be in this campaign, you will receive a Private Message with instructions. The actual campaign will begin one week thereafter, on June 29. This will give us plenty of time for discussion, character introductions, and roleplay. Speaking of roleplay, certain applicants have no background description... If you truly wish to be accepted, here's a hint - You will have a better chance of being selected if your character has a good bio - this makes it easier for me to come up with game content. With that said, I am still taking applications and would like more (it would feel better if I knew that I was leaving out more than just one person - leaving out one person would make me feel simply horrible). Good luck, everyone!
Deadly Assassin 06-19-05, 08:36 AM	Would I be able to go on a mini-quest to kill someone, like some weak peasant or somebody, just so Niccolo can become an Assassin PrC? And if so, is there anyone willing to questlord it for me?
Megrim_Lord 06-19-05, 09:13 AM	one more question, can I wildshape into advanced animals or just regular ones?
Caterane 06-19-05, 09:42 AM	huh? wait... how did that make sense? Sigh Look, it happens one in a million times. We have 150 characters on the roster. It is highly unlikely that even ONE such creature exists in the arena: Chance is 0.00015%. That would easily justify to forbid it at all and in fact it was not allowed until recently. Be glad that it is possible at all now. Secondly, without a credit cost, the term "always" means nothing. Could aswell be "any alignment". No advanced animal wildshape.
Deadly Assassin 06-19-05, 10:14 AM	Would I be able to go on a mini-quest to kill someone, like some weak peasant or somebody, just so Niccolo can become an Assassin PrC? And if so, is there anyone willing to questlord it for me? ???
Cerebus13 06-19-05, 10:29 AM	???Sure you can, you just have to check the questlord roster and see if any questlords are available on a given week...and then contact them through PM or something and figure out all the details.
Deadly Assassin 06-19-05, 10:30 AM	Ok, kool. Thanks a lot.
Megrim_Lord 06-19-05, 10:46 AM	Sigh Look, it happens one in a million times. We have 150 characters on the roster. It is highly unlikely that even ONE such creature exists in the arena: Chance is 0.00015%. That would easily justify to forbid it at all and in fact it was not allowed until recently. Be glad that it is possible at all now. Secondly, without a credit cost, the term "always" means nothing. Could aswell be "any alignment". No advanced animal wildshape. your supposed justification still seems senseless to me given most everybody's normal experience in a D&D party. I mean think about it, how often do one in a million chances ACTUALLY occur in any D&D environment? more than the book says. there was a one in a million chance I'd be born with the characteristics I was born with, but it happened. There was a one in a million chance the harvester would become a quasi diety. There was a one in a million chance you'd be forum GM with Ashenai, but that happened too. There was a one in a million chance King Uther would show up and rock this place apart with quests and radical ideas, but look, that happened. One in a million chances happen every day in every environment, and one such as gladius is a veritable magnet for such things. looking at the RAW works when dealing with math and mechanics, and personally I think in this case you're putting too much stock into the RAW instead of looking at the environment they're meant for. you've already house ruled things that don't need house ruling anyway, so why listen to the RAW on something that would make sense to be house ruled?
Deadly Assassin 06-19-05, 11:24 AM	...there was a one in a million chance I'd be born with the characteristics I was born with, but it happened. There was a one in a million chance the harvester would become a quasi diety. There was a one in a million chance you'd be forum GM with Ashenai, but that happened too. There was a one in a million chance King Uther would show up and rock this place apart with quests and radical ideas, but look, that happened. One in a million chances happen every day in every environment... Not to play the Devil's Advocate...Eh, why not?...:schemes:...Anyways, you're talking about things that have already happened. You cannot compare past stuff with stuff that might happen in the future. Yes, there was a one-in-a-million chance that we each turned out how we did, but that's already happened. Stuff that may happen still has other things that can influence it that may not be visible. It's like saying "Oh, this sapling will grow to be tall because that tree did." What you may not realize is that the older tree may block the sunlight from getting to the sapling, or a logger may come along and cut down the older tree, crushing the sapling as it fell. See what I'm saying? Just my :twocents:
Huan 06-19-05, 11:43 AM	Ok, now we're all getting rhetorical... which solves nothing.
Megrim_Lord 06-19-05, 11:49 AM	You cannot compare past stuff with stuff that might happen in the future. really? then why is the word prediction in the dictionary, or estimate, or even guess? :D
LLMadCow 06-19-05, 11:51 AM	your supposed justification still seems senseless to me given most everybody's normal experience in a D&D party. I mean think about it, how often do one in a million chances ACTUALLY occur in any D&D environment? more than the book says. there was a one in a million chance I'd be born with the characteristics I was born with, but it happened. There was a one in a million chance the harvester would become a quasi diety. There was a one in a million chance you'd be forum GM with Ashenai, but that happened too. There was a one in a million chance King Uther would show up and rock this place apart with quests and radical ideas, but look, that happened. One in a million chances happen every day in every environment, and one such as gladius is a veritable magnet for such things. looking at the RAW works when dealing with math and mechanics, and personally I think in this case you're putting too much stock into the RAW instead of looking at the environment they're meant for. you've already house ruled things that don't need house ruling anyway, so why listen to the RAW on something that would make sense to be house ruled? Okay, given that you want to keep referencing the 1 in a million issue and comparing it to reality, let me remind you that at current projections, there are: 6,448,452,060 people in the world today. Given that number, and if my slightly groggy calculations are correct, then there are 6,447 other people that get to share the title as 1 in a million when it comes down to any particular feature. I'd throw a bunch of examples at you, but I am a bit lazy right now and figure you get the basic idea. So, when reality has tons of options and 6,448 people to share the possible 1 in a million odds you will run into plenty of examples, vs LG which has less than 500 people. You do the math on that one, I am going back to bed shortly. LL
Deadly Assassin 06-19-05, 12:02 PM	really? then why is the word prediction in the dictionary, or estimate, or even guess? :D Because those words don't mean something is going to happen, just that it might happen. And predicting, estimating and guessing aren't comparing. :P
Megrim_Lord 06-19-05, 12:14 PM	Okay, given that you want to keep referencing the 1 in a million issue and comparing it to reality, let me remind you that at current projections, there are: 6,448,452,060 people in the world today. Given that number, and if my slightly groggy calculations are correct, then there are 6,447 other people that get to share the title as 1 in a million when it comes down to any particular feature. I'd throw a bunch of examples at you, but I am a bit lazy right now and figure you get the basic idea. So, when reality has tons of options and 6,448 people to share the possible 1 in a million odds you will run into plenty of examples, vs LG which has less than 500 people. You do the math on that one, I am going back to bed shortly. LL you're literally interperating everything I say which is exactly what you shouldn't be doing, because in doing so you are still missing my entire point, which is that in just about any setting, even in real life, ONE IN A MILLION CHANCES HAPPEN MUCH MORE OFTEN THAN JUST ONCE IN A MILLION TIMES
Deadly Assassin 06-19-05, 12:24 PM	Ok, its like this. Something has one-in-a-million odds. However, that something might happen more than once in one million times, or it might not happen at all. Try this. Flip a quarter 10 times. Since there's only two sides, you have a 1 in 2 chance that it will land heads, so it should only land heads up half the time. But it may land heads up 6 times, or maybe only 3 times.
Megrim_Lord 06-19-05, 01:20 PM	Ok, its like this. Something has one-in-a-million odds. However, that something might happen more than once in one million times, or it might not happen at all. Try this. Flip a quarter 10 times. Since there's only two sides, you have a 1 in 2 chance that it will land heads, so it should only land heads up half the time. But it may land heads up 6 times, or maybe only 3 times. my point exactly
Zerone 06-19-05, 02:23 PM	Are we able to purchase MW items for skills that are not in the PHB, such as Silent Shoes (+2 MS), Darksuit (+2 Hide), Listening Cone (+2 Listen), etc...? If not, I think this would add another way to spend credits. It's the same as 'editing' a magical item into a different slot or to have more than the listed bonus/charges/abilities/etc. Also if it is not allowed, perhaps the Elder's could vote on it costing credits to get these items? Z
Caterane 06-19-05, 04:02 PM	Would I be able to go on a mini-quest to kill someone, like some weak peasant or somebody, just so Niccolo can become an Assassin PrC? And if so, is there anyone willing to questlord it for me? If you want to go on a 3-week quest, you have to look on the Questroster for available Questlords, or if there ain't any, ask here in the Tavern. This kind of quest costs 1 credit a week for a total of 3 credits. If you don't have credits you can go on a Miniquest instead. This takes 1 week and costs no credits, and you need no Questlord. Just write it into your headline and I'll assign a Pitlord next pairings. But it is too early now to quest for a PrC requirement. Play your character for some weeks and perhaps you might want to gather some credits later. @Megrim: your assumption is mathematically incorrect. In case of events that happened and had a one in a million chance there were also 999.999 events that did not happen. This is what is meant by one in a million chance. Again: A one in a million chance is a one in a million chance. If you don't agree with that, fine. Write a letter to your principal and tell him that all mathematicians have eered and that you found out. Until then, we go with what is defined in the science books as being one in a million chance. In any case, I'm out of this discussion.
Megrim_Lord 06-19-05, 04:16 PM	If you want to go on a 3-week quest, you have to look on the Questroster for available Questlords, or if there ain't any, ask here in the Tavern. This kind of quest costs 1 credit a week for a total of 3 credits. If you don't have credits you can go on a Miniquest instead. This takes 1 week and costs no credits, and you need no Questlord. Just write it into your headline and I'll assign a Pitlord next pairings. But it is too early now to quest for a PrC requirement. Play your character for some weeks and perhaps you might want to gather some credits later. @Megrim: your assumption is mathematically incorrect. In case of events that happened and had a one in a million chance there were also 999.999 events that did not happen. This is what is meant by one in a million chance. Again: A one in a million chance is a one in a million chance. If you don't agree with that, fine. Write a letter to your principal and tell him that all mathematicians have eered and that you found out. Until then, we go with what is defined in the science books as being one in a million chance. In any case, I'm out of this discussion. i really don't care if it's mathematically incorrect, because I'm not looking at it literally and no one seems to understand that, so since I can't seem to get anyone to understand that, I give up, let the senselessness continue.
Caterane 06-19-05, 04:24 PM	You're saying that one in a million times happens more often than one in a million times, and that it infact happens so frequently and often that we should allow one in a million times to be something around one in ten times so that "always" can be played with "any" alignment. That's senselessness.
Megrim_Lord 06-19-05, 04:38 PM	You're saying that one in a million times happens more often than one in a million times, and that it infact happens so frequently and often that we should allow one in a million times to be something around one in ten times so that "always" can be played with "any" alignment. That's senselessness. no, it's D&D. I can't count the things that normally would never happen in faerun that happen in faerun on a day by day basis in my campaign. and honestly, how many people do you think are actually going to be playing creatures with an 'always' alignment? there are only so many in the core setting and very few of them make a worthwhile build. so far I've seen only one or two ideas based on creatures with an 'always' alignment using a different one. The thing is, the phrase 'one in a million times' is obligatory, because it's an every day phrase and the majority of those kinds of figures are inaccurate guesses, which is why, in actuality, 'one in a million times' happens more often than once in a million times. I mean haven't you ever DMed a group with a bunch of of near impossibilities for characters?
Pitlords 06-19-05, 04:42 PM	@Megrim: please add a Questlog to your Quest. First post of the Quest. Thanks. PS: No, never seen one and I play for more than 12 years now. I wouldn't allow it in my group. @Uther: the target quest item never counts 3/4th. See FAQ. @Huan/Uther: I need xp and gp for your finished quests. @Jindl: Please check the FAQ: Races and Classes, Section Acquired Templates for information on how to handle your situation. If anything is unclear, write a PM. @all: ECL 8 is open now that the first gladiators arrived there. @Zerone: Convert or retire Jin Szen?
Megrim_Lord 06-19-05, 04:52 PM	@Megrim: please add a Questlog to your Quest. First post of the Quest. Thanks. PS: No, never seen one and I play for more than 12 years now. I wouldn't allow it in my group. @Uther: the target quest item never counts 3/4th. See FAQ. @Huan/Uther: I need xp and gp for your finished quests. must be your ruleset then, or your players are all into stereotyped characters or something, I get at least one every scenario
Caterane 06-19-05, 05:43 PM	There are only a handful of playable races with an "always" alignment and all of them are very exotic. You have one of these rare and exotic races in every campaign? And furthermore, the players of these rare races pick a different alignment than the MM suggests on top of that? I'd say that is far from being normal. If your group does that then it is straying far away from the Rules as written thus creating a house rule. The CoCo though sticks to what the MM says and that is 1 in a million. If you want to play one, pay credits and you have it which is still more than we should allow. EDIT: Xanadu and Megrim, please DO NOT hold any conversation in the Characters of Gladius thread!! :rant: Use these posts for your next characters.
Megrim_Lord 06-19-05, 06:02 PM	There are only a handful of playable races with an "always" alignment and all of them are very exotic. You have one of these rare and exotic races in every campaign? And furthermore, the players of these rare races pick a different alignment than the MM suggests on top of that? I'd say that is far from being normal. If your group does that then it is straying far away from the Rules as written thus creating a house rule. The CoCo though sticks to what the MM says and that is 1 in a million. If you want to play one, pay credits and you have it which is still more than we should allow. EDIT: Xanadu and Megrim, please DO NOT hold any conversation in the Characters of Gladius thread!! :rant: Use these posts for your next characters. no, I meant that their characters all end up in a highly unlikely situation or come from a highly unlikely backgrounds or are a very odd race etc. etc., my point being that incredibly unlikely things happen all the time in D&D. with those expanded areas have any of all THOSE ever come up as highly improbable? as a sidenote trying to explain things online bites, throughout this entire argument everyone seems to either miss the point, overanalyze it/analyze it too literally or take things I say way out of context
xanadu 06-19-05, 06:13 PM	EDIT: Xanadu and Megrim, please DO NOT hold any conversation in the Characters of Gladius thread!! :rant: ?? I dont recall having done so :confused: Edit: Oops, I could have sworn I asked that here :embarrass Oh well, I'll just make a new gladiator
Caterane 06-19-05, 07:47 PM	:waits:
xanadu 06-19-05, 07:55 PM	:angelhide
Jindl 06-19-05, 09:06 PM	@all: ECL 8 is open now that the first gladiators arrived there. @Zerone: Convert or retire Jin Szen? Can you convert a higher level character by reducing their level to ECL8? I was going to conver Rhoar and drop him down to ECL7 or ECL8. -Jindl
xanadu 06-19-05, 09:24 PM	@ schri12 I'm one to talk since I just mixed up message threads, but the "battles" threads is *only* for battles. Any comment related to these battles needs to go in the "comments..." thread. I realize it is probably just an honest mistake, just letting you know.
Huan 06-19-05, 09:29 PM	@Huan/Uther: I need xp and gp for your finished quests. Done. Though the Epilogues are being worked-on at the moment, the Questlogs have now been completed and include that information.
Zerone 06-19-05, 10:32 PM	@ Pitlords: I'll convert Jin, but it may take a while, as some things will chang and I'm still working on others characters right now... *•. Z
xanadu 06-19-05, 11:15 PM	I did not know familiar don't get stat increases every 4 levels. I'm pretty sure some other wizards are running around with a stat increase because I wasn't so sure and looked at other characters to see what they did.
Caterane 06-20-05, 07:34 AM	@Schrii12: :ahem: @Jindl: No, that creates to many complications. The old arena used a slightly different gold distribution. LivingGladius takes the fact that we have several fights per level into consideration (by giving out more gold but you also spend more ressources). If you would just sell everything and buy new things with ECL 8 starting gold, then it would basically be a new gladiator, and not a converted one. You only have to wait one level. My closest convert-character is ECL 14 :(
Meek Head 06-20-05, 08:46 AM	If I want to buy more equipment, say more arrows, I don't have to do anything special, do I? What about buying magical items?
Huan 06-20-05, 08:50 AM	If I want to buy more equipment, say more arrows, I don't have to do anything special, do I? What about buying magical items? No, not at all. You can buy as much as you can afford in between fights or activities.
King Uther 06-20-05, 09:06 AM	Hmmm..... Playing races that have diametrically opposed alignments to their race isn't necessarily all that strange. Alignment is a cultural thing, that comes about from upbringing and the world you grew up in(to a certain degree). So while a drow turning Lawful Good who grew up with Drow is one in a million(a ridiculous, overused American phrase with no real clout), a Drow who grew up in a church of Pelor would most certainly have a good alignment, because it is impossible to be born into a set personality. You acquire it. I am not arguing that I should be able to play any race as any alignment, because there are too many examples where it just wouldn't fit. And I'll gladly stand firm by whatever decision gets made. But I feel that evaluating it in a case-by-case basis might be a little more fair. I realize that can't be done, for how can you justify giving a credit cost to one without the other? You can't. But 5 credits per category change is a lot. Maybe 2 per category? At least then it is somewhat more affordable.
Zerone 06-20-05, 09:14 AM	Where's Padme??? (http://vaderfortune.ytmnd.com/) *•. Z
Jindl 06-20-05, 10:44 AM	@Jindl: No, that creates to many complications. The old arena used a slightly different gold distribution. LivingGladius takes the fact that we have several fights per level into consideration (by giving out more gold but you also spend more ressources). If you would just sell everything and buy new things with ECL 8 starting gold, then it would basically be a new gladiator, and not a converted one. You only have to wait one level. My closest convert-character is ECL 14 :( Um, the old Rhoar is ECL14 (same as Ebelin, oh and you should delete the old Ixenthor from ECL12 since you converted him)... What I'm asking is can we convert an old character to start at an ECL higher than 3? If so, does it cost the same number of credits as a brand new character (started at a higher level) or would it cost less, since you are converting an old character which was higher level? -Jindl
LLMadCow 06-20-05, 10:47 AM	Hmmm..... Playing races that have diametrically opposed alignments to their race isn't necessarily all that strange. Alignment is a cultural thing, that comes about from upbringing and the world you grew up in(to a certain degree). So while a drow turning Lawful Good who grew up with Drow is one in a million(a ridiculous, overused American phrase with no real clout), a Drow who grew up in a church of Pelor would most certainly have a good alignment, because it is impossible to be born into a set personality. You acquire it. In the REAL WORLD, I would agree that "alignment is a cultural thing, that comes about from upbringing and the world you grew up in"; this statement can be supported by years of sociological, medical and/or psychiatric study that have been devoted to just this. The REAL WORLD has set rules and dynamics that govern how everything functions. Now, so as not to get all wild and crazy, I acknowledge that there are tons of variants from what is considered to be 'normal' or 'status quo', but all I am trying to say is that there has been extensive study in this field ... BECAUSE NO ONE GAVE US A RULE BOOK THAT CLEARLY DEFINES EVERYTHING. ( <--Not yelling, just emphasis! :) ) In Dungeons&Dragons (NOT THE REAL WORLD) [future references will be D&DntRW], we cannot force REAL WORLD dynamics and laws because if we did, magic would stop working, monks would be slower, barbarians would be pitiful, and this would no longer be a fantasy game, but a boring reality game. Imagine George the Mechanic going on a campaign to pick up the broken down Chevy Impala and fix it. Whoo-Hoo! At the end you earn 2,400xp and $2,400. George gets to pay the rent, buy some groceries and pay child support. Random encounters on his quest are: three homeless men, then a flat tire in the rain on a hill, and the boss encounter is ... his local 7-11 is held up at gun point while he is picking up something on his way home from work! See, in D&DntRW, we have a nice set of books where some guy behind a desk said that Pixies are ALWAYS Neutral Good, maybe it is something that is hardwired into their genetic make-up (or whatever the D&DntRW equivalent is)! Maybe it has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with their upbringing. So, when the 1 in a million comes into play it is due to some freakish mutation. Or brain damage from birth. Or only due to some illness that they have to get on their second day of birth. Or maybe it is based off of the alignment of the planets and what their parents ate for dinner and what time of year they were born. Or maybe it only occurs by divine intervention. The point is, D&DntRW has rules for us to follow and when there are rules for us to follow, we should. In LG we have to house rule some things to make the arena function a bit smoother and make some balance occur within. Making a house rule to negate the 1 in a million rule about alignment does not help with balance or make anything function smoother, it simply allows players have a little bit more fun and break the rules a little bit. So, charging credits is a nice added bonus as opposed to not allowing it at all. Remember, in the REAL WORLD, scientists have to learn the rules (aka Laws of Nature) through trial and error and extensive study. In D&DntRW, we have to learn the rules through spending lots of money to buy the books and reading them over and over until we can quote them like any holy book! And what is the air speed velocity of an unladen dire bat? Exactly.
SoulLord 06-20-05, 10:52 AM	Since we can only buy Core materials and the list of wands is generous I was wondering about the list of available dorjes to buy since the srd has no list at all I assume then that a) all dorjes are available free of credit charge b) all dorjes cost credits no matter what they are so what is it?
Jindl 06-20-05, 11:01 AM	Hmmm..... Playing races that have diametrically opposed alignments to their race isn't necessarily all that strange. Alignment is a cultural thing, that comes about from upbringing and the world you grew up in(to a certain degree). So while a drow turning Lawful Good who grew up with Drow is one in a million(a ridiculous, overused American phrase with no real clout), a Drow who grew up in a church of Pelor would most certainly have a good alignment, because it is impossible to be born into a set personality. You acquire it. I am not arguing that I should be able to play any race as any alignment, because there are too many examples where it just wouldn't fit. And I'll gladly stand firm by whatever decision gets made. But I feel that evaluating it in a case-by-case basis might be a little more fair. I realize that can't be done, for how can you justify giving a credit cost to one without the other? You can't. But 5 credits per category change is a lot. Maybe 2 per category? At least then it is somewhat more affordable. The difference is that Drow are not an "Always <alignment>" case, they are only usually nuetral evil. Creatures that have an "Always <alignment>" are not that alignment due to culture, they are that alignment due to the intrinsic nature of the creature. Take animals (or other creatures of Int 2,1, or -) for example: They are always nuetral because the intelligence they posess is not capable of making decisions about right and wrong. Without that capablity, they cannot determine what is right and wrong in their own philosophy, and without that philosophy, they are inherently nuetral. Or look at outsiders/fey/and some undead: These creatures are spiritual manifestations of people's beliefs. Their very essence depends upon their part of the greater scheme, be it good vs evil or the mystery of nature. The alignment is dictated by their race, because their race is dependent on their alignment. This intrinsic relationship is the cause for the "Always <alignment>". Devils don't grow up in a culture that teaches them to be evil. Actually, they don't grow up at all, they simply exist. And the essence that creates them infuses them with evil. Just like the essence that creates Pixies infuses them with playfulness and a nuetral good outlook. Its not cultural, it intrinsic. And as far as undead are concerned, those that posess an "Always <alignment>" do so because the negative energy that infuses them so corrupts their spirits that the only possible alignment is that alignment. Of course not all types of undead fall into this category. Many types retain conscious control over their actions, allowing them to maintain any alignment, even a Lawful Good one. Dragons are the only other major players (more major than inevitables, for example), to have an "Always <alignment>". And they do so for the same reason that the outsiders do so. Dragons are creatures formed of ancient and powerful elemental forces, and by their very nature they must be a certain alignment. It's not a cultural thing, its a hereditary thing. That's the difference between an "Always <alignment>" and a "Usually <alignment>", the always signifies an inherent requirement to be a certain way, while usually reflects a lesser tendency (be it cultural or otherwise) to act a certain way. Usually alignments require nothing to be different, while Always would require DM approval (which we represent with credits). -Jindl
King Uther 06-20-05, 11:12 AM	Fair enough. Again, I was in no way arguing one way or another. I think that for the most part 1 in a million(or some other large number) is appropriate. Because how many rare babies are just sitting stranded waiting for the *insert diametrically opposed alignment* family to pick them up and raise them differently. Almost none. With the inborn forces of magic, some creatures alignment is set because of that. I think some degree of credit cost is appropriate. I was just suggesting that it could be lowered to be available without too much cost.
Caterane 06-20-05, 11:47 AM	Um, the old Rhoar is ECL14 (same as Ebelin, oh and you should delete the old Ixenthor from ECL12 since you converted him)... What I'm asking is can we convert an old character to start at an ECL higher than 3? If so, does it cost the same number of credits as a brand new character (started at a higher level) or would it cost less, since you are converting an old character which was higher level? Ah right, the old Ixenthor was still on the roster. Deleted. You're mixing up two things: playing a new character with the same name and background, and converting an existing one. In the former case (like you did with JotH) you chose to retire your old incarnation by forming a completely new one who is supposed to be the same being. However, you could have chosen to take a completely different path, like some levels in druid-hater, different ability scores, and your equipment is freely choosable. In case of a converted one, you can only alter things that work differently in LG opposed to Classic CoCo. You keep everything that still works for LG, including money and equipment. Converting mainly means, adding things like 1/3 spell use, experience points, etc or substracting things that don't work anymore (eg Permanent Enlarge Person at lvl 5). You can of course recreate Rhoar at lvl 7 by paying credits (just like I payed for Ixenthor; I didn't want to wait till 12) or you can wait till lvl 14 and convert Rhoar. I hope that clears it up. PS: I really enjoyed your explanation about alignments. Very nice! Imagine George the Mechanic going on a campaign to pick up the broken down Chevy Impala and fix it. Whoo-Hoo! At the end you earn 2,400xp and $2,400. George gets to pay the rent, buy some groceries and pay child support. Random encounters on his quest are: three homeless men, then a flat tire in the rain on a hill, and the boss encounter is ... his local 7-11 is held up at gun point while he is picking up something on his way home from work! LOL Man that was funny
King Uther 06-20-05, 12:01 PM	It was funny. You might have survived if you didn't spend all your feats on Improved Get Girls( a respectable +3), Fix Overbite(reduces charisma penalty by 1), and Quick Disrobe(free action).
SoulLord 06-20-05, 01:00 PM	can animals use the aid another and fight defensively without extra training? or do these count as aditional tricks?
Huan 06-20-05, 01:13 PM	can animals use the aid another and fight defensively without extra training? or do these count as aditional tricks? I would say those are special Perform tricks.
Pitlords 06-20-05, 03:47 PM	13 fights outstanding and only 10 hours until the deadline. Please finish your fights, Pitlords! Re Tricks: At the moment, only those listed in the PHB are possible to train. Perform is some basic maneuver that the animal performs, like Perform "Click heels" to activate boots of speed. The animal would not know about the magic. Give me some tricks and I'll propose it in the council.
bgt 06-20-05, 04:54 PM	How about a Trick that keeps shocker lizards from emiting warning clicks before attacking? That would be helpful later on...
Luni 06-20-05, 05:03 PM	@Caterane: How about a trick to let the animal disarm items. The animal is physically capable for the most part.
SoulLord 06-20-05, 05:15 PM	13 fights outstanding and only 10 hours until the deadline. Please finish your fights, Pitlords! Re Tricks: At the moment, only those listed in the PHB are possible to train. Perform is some basic maneuver that the animal performs, like Perform "Click heels" to activate boots of speed. The animal would not know about the magic. Give me some tricks and I'll propose it in the council. well I know this "tricks" are not in the players handbook but they are in the complete adventurer so i would like to propose them to be added. perhaps as it's custom they could cost extra credits; 1° for each non core trick?
King Uther 06-20-05, 06:30 PM	I don't know if adding tricks is prudent. Disarming Pets? That's a little strange. You could argue your Ape pet could be taught to use the Tumble Skill, how to shoot a bow, and pick locks. I think sticking to what's listed is appropriate. There's too much room for abuse otherwise. And if it costs credits, then at character creation someone with many credits could create a cohort basically, only faster and stronger.
King Uther 06-20-05, 06:41 PM	As an announcement, my campaign will be delayed two more weeks because Nyte and Shadow vs. Jindl and Laph needs to happen. And after next pairing I will be on the last week of most of my quests. If anyone wants to go on one, PM me.
Jindl 06-20-05, 06:50 PM	As an announcement, my campaign will be delayed two more weeks because Nyte and Shadow vs. Jindl and Laph needs to happen. And after next pairing I will be on the last week of most of my quests. If anyone wants to go on one, PM me. Indeed it does. Please correct JotHF's quest rewards, and I'll get him updated for the 2v4. -Jindl
Megrim_Lord 06-20-05, 06:54 PM	cat can you jump in on Virgo's quest and call the correct gp & xp? someones math is off and I'm not sure who's
Caterane 06-20-05, 07:02 PM	cat can you jump in on Virgo's quest and call the correct gp & xp? someones math is off and I'm not sure who's NO QUESTLOOOOG!! :rant: Zerone, where's the NOOOO link? LOL Mergim, I cannot calculate the rewards if you don't tell us which CR or ECL your opponoments had.
Zerone 06-20-05, 07:22 PM	Where's Padme? (http://vaderfortune.ytmnd.com/) Nooooooooo! (http://darthno.ytmnd.com/) *•. Z
Zerone 06-20-05, 07:33 PM	Are we able to purchase MW items for skills that are not in the PHB, such as Silent Shoes (+2 MS), Darksuit (+2 Hide), Listening Cone (+2 Listen), etc...? If not, I think this would add another way to spend credits. It's the same as 'editing' a magical item into a different slot or to have more than the listed bonus/charges/abilities/etc. Also if it is not allowed, perhaps the Elder's could vote on it costing credits to get these items? Z I think this post got 'overlooked'... :P So I thought I'd 'renew' it... :D Z
Megrim_Lord 06-20-05, 07:58 PM	NO QUESTLOOOOG!! :rant: Zerone, where's the NOOOO link? LOL Mergim, I cannot calculate the rewards if you don't tell us which CR or ECL your opponoments had. CR 4, 5, and 5, and I'll do the questlog soon
Zerone 06-21-05, 01:08 AM	About the Personal Avatar the CoCo has to offer... We could have a separate tournament where we all create a character of, lets say 12th level, and battle it out one on one till there is a winner - no xp/gp gains, a character just for the tournament. There could be a winners and a losers bracket, so each gladiator would get to fight at least two battles, and the Winner of the Winner's Bracket would fight the Winner of the Loser's Bracket to find the eventual champion. The prize being the Personal Avatar. Winning could also grant the character a place the level 12 CoCo Roster...? It could all be on one thread, or multiple threads, with comments/character/fight threads... What does everyone think? *•. Z
Jindl 06-21-05, 02:02 AM	@Jindl: Please check the FAQ: Races and Classes, Section Acquired Templates for information on how to handle your situation. If anything is unclear, write a PM. @all: ECL 8 is open now that the first gladiators arrived there. I just updated Anna. Based upon the FAQ and the xp awarded for the quest, she is just barely ECL9. So I guess the 9th levels are open too. -Jindl
Huan 06-21-05, 08:10 AM	How about, then, merely tricks of tactical maneuvers already in the PHB that every animal already is unquestionably capable of performing? Some good ones have been mentioned. Perform: -Aid Another: Like the ability, the animal distracts, but not quite attacks, the opponent and provides a given bonus (maybe there should be two, one to give the +2 AC and the other to give +2 Attack). -Full defense: More extreme than the defend trick, this has the animal completley guard itself in its most effective manner. -Grapple: All animals have a grapple modifier, but not all are naturally inclined to start a grapple. This allows them to do so. -Tap Tattoo: Hmm... I don't see why not, but it may be debated. -Bull Rush: Likely not to be used that often, but the ability to merely shove one's weight in a certain direction is not terribly difficult. Other maneuvers such as disarm, ready, and trip, seem too much of a stretch to say that ALL animals are naturally capable of (even though they ARE expanded uses of Perform in other books, this is the COre COliseum). However, I agree to the degree of houseruling with which we allow, and that it should be handled cautiously (otherwise not allowed at all). It cannot be helped that many of these undoubtably useful Perform abilites were not included in the PHB.
Caterane 06-21-05, 09:04 AM	I just updated Anna. Based upon the FAQ and the xp awarded for the quest, she is just barely ECL9. So I guess the 9th levels are open too. -Jindl No, that's wrong. You don't gain 29,000, you bump TO 29,000 XP. Plus 4500 from the Quest = 33,500 XP. You need 36,000 for ECL 9. Same with the gold. You just calculate the difference between your last ECL (3) and your new ECL (8), which is 35,000 gold and that's what you get, plus any Quest gold reward. Total 40,700 gp reward.
Jindl 06-21-05, 09:15 AM	No, that's wrong. You don't gain 29,000, you bump TO 29,000 XP. Plus 4500 from the Quest = 33,500 XP. You need 36,000 for ECL 9. Same with the gold. You just calculate the difference between your last ECL (3) and your new ECL (8), which is 35,000 gold and that's what you get, plus any Quest gold reward. Total 40,700 gp reward. Okay. @Huan - Please update the quest reward listed in the questlog.
Huan 06-21-05, 09:17 AM	Done.
SoulLord 06-21-05, 10:11 AM	About the Personal Avatar the CoCo has to offer... We could have a separate tournament where we all create a character of, lets say 12th level, and battle it out one on one till there is a winner - no xp/gp gains, a character just for the tournament. There could be a winners and a losers bracket, so each gladiator would get to fight at least two battles, and the Winner of the Winner's Bracket would fight the Winner of the Loser's Bracket to find the eventual champion. The prize being the Personal Avatar. Winning could also grant the character a place the level 12 CoCo Roster...? It could all be on one thread, or multiple threads, with comments/character/fight threads... What does everyone think? *•. Z I like it a lot, perhaps an all out battle? everyone creates a 3rd level character Survivor gets the Icon? Or to avoid someone hiding until the end how about however kills the most gets the win?
Zerone 06-21-05, 01:06 PM	I like it a lot, perhaps an all out battle? everyone creates a 3rd level character Survivor gets the Icon? Or to avoid someone hiding until the end how about however kills the most gets the win? I meant a 1 on 1 event, where the individual earns the prize. Cat already mentioned a 'Grand Melee' type of event a little while back. I was offering a different type. :) Both are good ideas... however, it must be the winner and not the player with the most kills - one has 'the most' and one is 'the winner', there is a difference there to me... Zerone
SoulLord 06-21-05, 01:32 PM	I disagree.... If surviving is all it takes to win there will be several hiding and invisible while the rest fight it out. if its a most kills then one must be actively trying to kill opponents; otherwise someone else is going to get the prize while one spends the time hiding.
Malither76 06-21-05, 02:54 PM	yep I like the idea of a grand melee as well, and it should be most kills, even the hiders can use this to there advantage, like oh look that guy just got hit hard I think magic missle yay another kill for me. this would be a hoot.
King Uther 06-21-05, 03:11 PM	But who pitlords the mass melee? I defy you to satisfy 30 people's tactics. On the other hand, perhaps a team on team tournament would be more fun. The team that wins, either they each get an avatar, or they duel each other for it. Mass Melee is too.....unpredictable. Most amount of kills? Caster wins no contest. But with team fights or one on one(I favor teams because of time constraints), the best player at the time wins. Plus it could draw in outside people to play here even more. A yearly tournament in July. But only characters who have been playing a certain amount of time should be allowed, otherwise someone would enter the tournament, win an avatar, then quit playing here. Whatever gets decided, it should be fun, entertaining, and challenging.
Caterane 06-21-05, 03:27 PM	Here's how I plan to do it: - It will be a tournament, winner ascends to next level, loser is out.. - In order to prevent uproars from annoyed players, every fight will be a seperate thread fight. - There will be only 1 custom avatar; for the winner, or at the most the winner team. - Price for 2nd and 3rd place could be the first Reputation modifier (which I plan to introduce anyway). You'd get a +2 leadership bonus because of Great Renown. Of course, the winner also gets this bonus. Requirement 1: all gladiators must have an equal chance, aswell as a chance to participate Requirement 2: there must be enough gladiators participating Requirement 3: we would have to freeze ECL10 for some time Requirement 4: No xp and gold rewards during these fights. Rewards are held back until you are out of the tournament (or win it). Open Questions: Question 1: Limit amount of expendables per fight? Question 2: Rememorize/refresh after every fight or Iron Man? Question 3: When to start the tournament? With 8, 16, 32, or 64 players/teams? You have enough time until the tournament starts to either play your PC up, enter a higher-level PC with credits, or instead of just having ECL 10 characters, we also allow Teams that sum up to ECL 10 so that they can participate. Example: Jindl of the High Forest (ECL 10) vs Team: EnSidious (ECL 5) and Baelin (ECL 5). That way everyone in the CoCo can participate.
King Uther 06-21-05, 03:37 PM	Iron man all the way. It should be about who could last the longest. I would like to see 16 combatants, but if that's not possible, 8 would be fine. 32 is unrealistic. Expendables should not be limited to fight, but whole contest. Maybe like...you can use 5 expendables the entire contest, but for every win you can use one more expendable.
King Uther 06-21-05, 03:51 PM	What about cohorts or allies? All would be a major advantage in a 1 on 1.
SoulLord 06-21-05, 03:51 PM	I vote for Iron man as well. As for level I think that 4th level would give a chance to new players (if lucky) to level up a new character and it makes it easier for pitlords to run fights. 1).- no limit to expendables if they run out by the time they reach the finals tough luck. 2).- Iron Man 3).- 8-16
Deadly Assassin 06-21-05, 03:53 PM	1. I agree with Uther: expendables should be limited for entire tournament. 2. Ironman 3. I'd say 8 man teams if we decide to do a team tournament. If we did anything over that you'd have to give out way too many CA's, imo. Or we could do higher number teams and then have inner-team fights for 2 CA's, one for each of the top two fighters. Also, I think XP rewards should be allowed, but retained until out of the tournament/you win. As for ECL, I think it should be cumulative, but higher than 10 if there's going to be any teams of 4 or more, unless there teams are handicapped (i.e. the ECL is 10, and team 1 has 2 ECL 3 characters and an ECL 4 character while team 2 has two ECL 5 characters).
King Uther 06-21-05, 04:01 PM	One Avatar for One Winner. XP/GP is given when character is eliminated. Maybe a 10-25% XP/GP award to the winner as well. Whoever wins deserves it. Good luck to all.
Cerebus13 06-21-05, 04:34 PM	Open Questions: Question 1: Limit amount of expendables per fight? Question 2: Rememorize/refresh after every fight or Iron Man? Question 3: When to start the tournament? With 8, 16, 32, or 64 players/teams?1) You could do this 2 ways.... Either limit the amount of expendables per fight and refresh these items for each battle, or have no limit on expendables but do not refresh items for each battle. Some builds (like UMD bards/rogues) depends on expendable items, but some crafty players could horde up a TON of expendable gear before the tournament started which would be unfair to others. It would be more fair to set a GP limit in expendables that you can use for each fight and then either refresh those items after each battle or not. 2) People who seem to want Iron Man don't realize how badly this would screw over players with lower amount of power points or spells. A Wilder is going to have a pretty tough time getting all the way to the championship without blowing most of their PPs, and there are few (and rather expensive) ways to recharge them without rest. Refreshing class abilities after every battle would make it so every battle is an equal test of the builds involved. If required we could merely keep the 1/3rd rule in effect to reign in uber spellcasters and what not (and combine this with a GP limit of expendables if needed). 3) Some power of 2 would be preferable but if you are really close (like 31/32 or 14/16) you could roll byes for some players at the beginning to simulate an evenly numbered tournament.
Caterane 06-21-05, 04:50 PM	Hm, is 2x ECL 5 the same as 1x ECL 10? I can't imagine that 3 lvl 3 PCs have any chance against a ECL 9 PC. I mean, his cohort would kill them without sweating.
Cerebus13 06-21-05, 05:03 PM	Hm, is 2x ECL 5 the same as 1x ECL 10? I can't imagine that 3 lvl 3 PCs have any chance against a ECL 9 PC. I mean, his cohort would kill them without sweating.Hmm...probably not, but more power to them if they wanna try it. Hard to come up with a balanced system of splitting ECL 10 into smaller group of lower ECL players, so maybe we shouldn't lose sleep over it :P.
SoulLord 06-21-05, 05:04 PM	A wizard, psion, cleric, druid, bard etc. might spend some of his spells but also the fighter types must risk some of his hp's and expendables on each battle. if the rules are the same for everyone I see no unfairness.
Cerebus13 06-21-05, 05:11 PM	A wizard, psion, cleric, druid, bard etc. might spend some of his spells but also the fighter types must risk some of his hp's and expendables on each battle. if the rules are the same for everyone I see no unfairness.Expendable items are going to rule the day then, because casters are going to save their spells as much as possible so they can blow them all out in the final few fights.
Zerone 06-21-05, 05:44 PM	I still feel that since we are giving away 'one' personal avatar, it should be based on individual success. Therefore, a 1 vs. 1 tournament is the best choice... Perhaps we could have a 4 person free-for-all preliminary round, for the 8, 16, or 32 entrants, and then it could be one on one from there, that way we get a little of everything. The first day could be the 4 person battles, and the second day could begin the Iron-man competition. 16 > 4 > 2 > 1 (winner) Or Bracket A 16 > 4 > 2 > 1 \ >Winner of Custom Avatar Bracket B / 16 > 4 > 2 > 1 Since this is a Tournament for a custom avatar, each person should only be allowed one entry, there 'champion'. The name... The Tournament of Champions© We, tabletop gamers and friends (old and new) get together for a ToC every year since the late 80's. It's been called the Tournament of Champions since its creation. I do not mind lending its name to the CoCo, as I would invite all of you to the ToC if you lived closer. Actually, I was looking into running a ToC at GenCon, but haven't pursued it thoroughly enough yet... *•. Z
Salrantol 06-21-05, 05:57 PM	Hmm...probably not, but more power to them if they wanna try it. Hard to come up with a balanced system of splitting ECL 10 into smaller group of lower ECL players, so maybe we shouldn't lose sleep over it :P. It should probably be just like the CR system, where 2 CR8 monsters make an EL10 encounter, or 3 CR7 monsters, or 4-5 CR6 monsters, etc.
Pittbull 06-22-05, 07:58 AM	@All: Is dissolving weapon now a valid prebuff? I know that has been discussed before, but I don't find the post. There are two possible solutions: (1) No, because it's like a charge (stays until a touch-attack has been made)as dissolving touch but only with the weapon. (2) Yes, because you charge the weapon and you need a normal successful attack, not a touch attack. If (2) is the right one Laph could charge all his weapons (all arrows, all javelins, ....), he carries?
Caterane 06-22-05, 09:41 AM	Yes you can prebuff with it
Jindl 06-22-05, 02:48 PM	Laph will use his new power "disolving weapon" to charge his arrows, he has 13 PPs per day and two weeks time, that makes 4arrow/d x 14 =56arrows of dissolving weapon. I asked in the forum if this is possible and Cat gave me the go. I'm going to have to say that we can't allow this. I think you understand why, but let me ask you, who would ever buy magic arrows if they could just have someone spend a week (at no cost in gp or xp) to charge 50 arrows with dissolving weapon? No, I think we need to assert that ammunition is not a valid target for the power. But I do like the way you're thinking creatively! Just an excerpt from a PM from this morning. I wanted to draw attention to the fact that you can't prebuff each of your arrows with dissolving weapons. Ammunition is not a valid target of the power. -Jindl
Pitlords 06-22-05, 03:00 PM	Prebuffs are also limited to 1/3. That rule is in effect for some weeks already
Deadly Assassin 06-22-05, 03:36 PM	Question about sniping and sneak attacks: Can my rogue snipe while sneak attacking? I.e., she's flanking and within 30' of her target (she's sneak attacking with her longbow), and she's hiding behind a pillar or rock.
SoulLord 06-22-05, 03:43 PM	Of course; If your opponent is denied his dex bonus he can be subject to SA damage when sniping you are effectively hiding(invisible) to your opponent and thus you deny him his dex bonus to your attack.
Jindl 06-22-05, 03:47 PM	Hey- Did you know that Luken is gonna lose 20% of his xp rewards as an xp penalty? Wild Elves have sorceror as a favored class, and Luken is a Pal2/Wild4. Wanted to make sure you knew. I think the CoCo rules is actually 20% of xp and gp rewarded for the fight... -Jindl Hmm... I actually did not know that the COCO enforced that. Thanks for the heads up. I will change the build to be Pal3/Wil3 so my PrC progression is fine (just have to change around some of the psionics). Thanks again. -Huan No problem. Actually, only a couple of characters have ever had an xp penalty. Two notable ones were Bonanza the Panza and SPIKE!, both of which were dwarves (Bonanza was a Brb/Clr and SPIKE! was a Mnk/Brb). Another excerpt from today's PM's. Just a heads up that we do enforce the Favored Class rules. -Jindl
Deadly Assassin 06-22-05, 03:48 PM	Ok, thanks. And btw, since she's flanking her target, the target's Dex bonus wouldn't matter whether it's been denied or not. Check the SRD.
Jindl 06-22-05, 03:50 PM	Ok, thanks. And btw, since she's flanking her target, the target's Dex bonus wouldn't matter whether it's been denied or not. Check the SRD. Since you cannot threaten with a ranged weapon, you don't flank with a ranged weapon. If you want to sneak attack with your bow, hiding + shooting is the best way to go. A snipe is merely a move action used to hide after making a ranged attack, so that your target does not know the source of the attack. So a hidden rogue can make a single attack and rehide each round to both remain hidden and deal sneak attack damage. -Jindl
Deadly Assassin 06-22-05, 04:01 PM	Oh, ok, my mistake. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
Jh316 06-22-05, 04:12 PM	Greetings. Just signed up, and managed to hammer out a basic Fighter within a few minutes of the deadline. I've only played in one actual game of DnD, but I've studied the rules a good bit and have hung around a PnP forum for a few years, so I've got a pretty good grip on how things run.
Zerone 06-22-05, 04:21 PM	Welcome Jh316! Glad to have you among our ranks. :D If you have any questions, just ask. *•. Z
Deadly Assassin 06-22-05, 04:27 PM	Greetings. Just signed up, and managed to hammer out a basic Fighter within a few minutes of the deadline. I've only played in one actual game of DnD, but I've studied the rules a good bit and have hung around a PnP forum for a few years, so I've got a pretty good grip on how things run. Umm..just to point out, masterwork on armor doesnt add to the armor bonus, it subtracts from the armor check penalty, unless I'm mistaken again, or missing something (which I just might be).
Jh316 06-22-05, 04:29 PM	Yeah, I know. It's +1 chainmail, I just forgot to put that it's +1 chainmail in the AC section instead of just the Equipment, section, as I was in a hurry. You'll see that I added 1000 to the cost and everything. Should've dropped the masterworked part too, since I just tacked +1 onto the end once I saw how much money I had left.
Salzorin 06-22-05, 04:32 PM	He actually purchased +1 chainmail... 1300g. It just doesn't need to say "masterwork" in front, because all enhancements require that an item be masterwork first... Edit: Looks like he beat me to the explanation...
Jh316 06-22-05, 04:41 PM	Whoops, looks like I gave him a d8 HD instead of a d10. ...I need to stop doing this when I'm not paying attention. That time I didn't give him his con bonus for all 3 levels. And I seem to have done his gold slightly wrong.
Deadly Assassin 06-22-05, 05:09 PM	Ah, ok.
Jh316 06-22-05, 06:11 PM	So, where do I post to say that I'm crafting, or whatever? Once I get the money, I'm going to take a week or two to craft some stuff.
Caterane 06-22-05, 06:59 PM	So, where do I post to say that I'm crafting, or whatever? Once I get the money, I'm going to take a week or two to craft some stuff. In the subject line. You can craft for up to 1000 gp market price without having to tell us or sit out. If you craft for more than that, you write "Crafts <item name>" into the headline. For more information see FAQ: Skills and Feats (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466576).
Sindorin 06-22-05, 07:04 PM	In other news, we had to have our 14 year old yellow labrador, Bailey, euthanized today. She has been taking a turn for the worst over the past couple weeks, losing her hearing and finally becoming unable to walk. She was just too old anymore, she seemed like she was always happy (like every dog should be), but you could just tell she was hurting. If I seem a bit detached in my posts and in my participation, this is why.
Caterane 06-22-05, 07:17 PM	Oh man, Steve, I'm sorry to hear that. But Bailey is surely in the dog heaven with a lot of food and many hot female dogs. And if he suffered all the time it was better for him. Look at LLMadCow's dog for example; that poor creature should be euthanized too. Hey, I lost my 17-year old cat (most intelligent cat I've ever seen) some time ago. Yeah that sucks but she lives on in my memories, and in those who knew her with who you can share stories about the pet. Life goes on
Sindorin 06-22-05, 07:19 PM	Wait, I thought Shamira died in that quest... ?!
Megrim_Lord 06-22-05, 07:34 PM	In other news, we had to have our 14 year old yellow labrador, Bailey, euthanized today. She has been taking a turn for the worst over the past couple weeks, losing her hearing and finally becoming unable to walk. She was just too old anymore, she seemed like she was always happy (like every dog should be), but you could just tell she was hurting. If I seem a bit detached in my posts and in my participation, this is why. I know how you feel, I lost a dog the same way, getting old, really sick, had to put him down, it's rough, watching that happen, so I can sympathize with you. when we put him down was the only time I ever saw my dad cry.
LLMadCow 06-22-05, 10:54 PM	Look at LLMadCow's dog for example; that poor creature should be euthanized too. I sure am glad that I work at the airport and can get through security quickly and also get good deals on international travel. I'll be in Germany shortly. I think they said I have one transfer to make in England and then I'll be landing in Germany. I'm not sure how long the trip will take, but I'll be there soon. Can anyone give me directions to Caterane's house so I can strangle him? I'll be bringing my dog....
LLMadCow 06-22-05, 11:38 PM	@Elders - VOTE
Caterane 06-23-05, 07:28 AM	It has been some time but we have a new member picture up! Deadly Assassin is now part of the glourious gallery! I've also uploaded all remaining pictures that I had on my harddisk. If you want to be in the Gallery, send me a picture!
Jh316 06-23-05, 08:39 AM	A few questions, here. So, when I go to craft, I just put it in the subject, and then when I'm done re-post it with the equipment saying I'm ready for the next pick? Can you craft untrained? Is there a reason to get higher than +10 on weaponsmithing and armorsmithing? How do I sell things? What craft skill is arrowmaking under? Weaponsmithing or bowmaking? How do I go about buying things like potions, or wonderous items? And why the bloody hell doesn't my signature show up most of the time? Oh, and where can I find a list of tattos? I can't find them in the SRD.
bgt 06-23-05, 09:08 AM	So, when I go to craft, I just put it in the subject, and then when I'm done re-post it with the equipment saying I'm ready for the next pick?. Yes. Can you craft untrained? Also yes. Is there a reason to get higher than +10 on weaponsmithing and armorsmithing? How quickly you can craft something. By increasing the save DC, you can craft quicker. How do I sell things? Delete the item for your charachter sheet and give yourself gold equal to 75% of its cost. Items that are gold-equivilent, like gold/silver bars, gems, and artwork are sold for full price. What craft skill is arrowmaking under? Weaponsmithing or bowmaking? Bowmaking. How do I go about buying things like potions, or wonderous items? Delete the gold for it from your charachter sheet, and give yourself the weapon. And why the bloody hell doesn't my signature show up most of the time? You probably have it set to show sigs once. Click on the "My Account" button up top. On the sidebar on the left side of the screen, there should be a button that says "Edit Options". Click on it. Scroll down until you find a option that says "Show Signitures Once". Click on "No" At the bottom of the screen is a button that saves your settings, click on it. Oh, and where can I find a list of tattos? I can't find them in the SRD The SRD (and Expanded Psionics Handbook) only give costs for tattoos by level. You have to look through the powers list to find the power you want, get the level of that power, then look at the tattoo chart to get the cost. To save you some time, a first level tatto costs 50 gp, a second level tatto costs 300 gp, and a third level tatto costs 750 gp.
Caterane 06-23-05, 09:09 AM	Please note that Bgt's post above has some mistakes in it. Use these answers here: So, when I go to craft, I just put it in the subject, and then when I'm done re-post it with the equipment saying I'm ready for the next pick? You put it in the subject. On wednesday, I will make a note on the "Character Actions" post which will be posted on the Battles of Gladius thread. You have to link this post to the item you craft. Additionally, your character is considered active for this week and can't do anything else. This is reflected by a [X] on the Roster infront of your name. Can you craft untrained? Yes Is there a reason to get higher than +10 on weaponsmithing and armorsmithing? No How do I sell things? Put it under the Past Expenditures section on your sheet and write [sold] behind it. You can sell everything for half price. What craft skill is arrowmaking under? Weaponsmithing or bowmaking? I'd say bowmaking. How do I go about buying things like potions, or wonderous items? Just deduct the money and its yours. And why the bloody hell doesn't my signature show up most of the time? Go to My Account -> Edit Options -> Signatures shown once -> No. But with Megrim Lord running around you might not want to do that. Oh, and where can I find a list of tattos? I can't find them in the SRD. You can make any tattoo of a power of up to 3rd level. If it is personal range, it costs double. If it should affect someone else, it must be a crawling tattoo. If it is augmented, the power level increases by 1 per 2 ML. List of all powers in the SRD: Psionics (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35).
Zerone 06-23-05, 09:13 AM	@ Jh316: Most of your questions can be answered here, please read this section! The Rules of Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=448520) A few questions, here. So, when I go to craft, I just put it in the subject, and then when I'm done re-post it with the equipment saying I'm ready for the next pick? Yes, but you will not get the item until the next week. Check here under Skills and Feats (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6463399&postcount=2). Can you craft untrained? Yes, but you must have a +x, where x is the number of what you are crafting, -10. Buckler is an 11, so you need a +1 Craft: Armor, etc... Is there a reason to get higher than +10 on weaponsmithing and armorsmithing? Not that I can see. MW items take a 20... so a 10 is all you need. Unless you want it for roleplaying... How do I sell things? Just state it in your 'Past Expenditures' section of your character, otherwise it is just like the book. I believe it's 1/2 its value, but not sure, can some one confirm? What craft skill is arrowmaking under? Weaponsmithing or bowmaking? Craft: Bowyer/Fletcher How do I go about buying things like potions, or wonderous items? Just sutract the gp and list it on your character. And why the bloody hell doesn't my signature show up most of the time? That's a tricky one. Usually, if you preview message and then post your post, it'll show. Oh, and where can I find a list of tattos? I can't find them in the SRD. SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html) under Psionic... read the Tattoo description... Hope this helps :D *•. Z EDIT: Garrr... :rolleyes: Waves a fist at Cat... and the other at bgt...
bgt 06-23-05, 09:13 AM	Hah! Usually I'm the one that gets beaten to the punch! This deserves a party! :bounce: :dancin: :pint: :dancin: :bounce:
Caterane 06-23-05, 09:20 AM	Anyone else who wants to answer the questions above? LOL
Zerone 06-23-05, 09:20 AM	Pile on the new guy... :pile::bounce:
LLMadCow 06-23-05, 09:34 AM	A few questions, here. So, when I go to craft, I just put it in the subject, and then when I'm done re-post it with the equipment saying I'm ready for the next pick? Can you craft untrained? Is there a reason to get higher than +10 on weaponsmithing and armorsmithing? How do I sell things? What craft skill is arrowmaking under? Weaponsmithing or bowmaking? How do I go about buying things like potions, or wonderous items? And why the bloody hell doesn't my signature show up most of the time? Oh, and where can I find a list of tattos? I can't find them in the SRD. @Jh316 - Welcome to the CoCo! I hope that you find it to be a welcome and inviting atmosphere, even if you do happen to get cut in half or magic missiled to death a few times! If you are looking for answers to the above questions, I would recommend checking out the following links: A good place to start, but not wholly accurate. The place for solid answers; theoretically flawless! More good answers, but it comes off a bit repetitious at times. No good answers, but humorous skill information; worth reading. I do hope that you find this information useful, or if not you might want to try checking some of the posts preceding or following this post. This post brought to you by LLSarcasticCow
King Uther 06-23-05, 09:56 AM	A few questions, here. So, when I go to craft, I just put it in the subject, and then when I'm done re-post it with the equipment saying I'm ready for the next pick? Can you craft untrained? Is there a reason to get higher than +10 on weaponsmithing and armorsmithing? How do I sell things? What craft skill is arrowmaking under? Weaponsmithing or bowmaking? How do I go about buying things like potions, or wonderous items? And why the bloody hell doesn't my signature show up most of the time? Oh, and where can I find a list of tattos? I can't find them in the SRD. I have no intention of answering any of these questions. Well, maybe one. A person with a +11 Weaponsmithing makes 5% cooler looking weapons than someone with a +10. Next week I'm going to have 2-3 open Quest slots. PM me if you'd like to participate.
Jindl 06-23-05, 11:15 AM	Anyone else who wants to answer the questions above? LOL Just one: Is there a reason to get higher than +10 on weaponsmithing and armorsmithing? Since we have already sped up crafting on nonmagical items to operate at 1000 gp per day, we've never had anyone try to add +10 to the craft DC to improve their time. I'm not sure that is even possible under our rules here. So bgt gave a correct answer according to the SRD, and Cat gave a realistic answer for the CoCo. They both forgot that some skills have higher than a DC20 to craft, such as Craft: Alchemy, Craft: Poison, and Craft: Bowmaking. The first two skills above have been fairly rare, but with archers being fairly common, I do want to point out that the craft DC for a mighy bow is 15 +2xStr bonus. So that Mighty (+4) Composite Longbow was a DC23 to craft, requiring a +13 on your skill. The bow I'm planning on buying for my next new character is a Mighy (+12) Comp. Longbow, which would be DC39 to craft... -Jindl
Rim-Soulfang 06-23-05, 05:28 PM	I'm going on a campain but i don't have enough credits to pay the one time cost of 5 credits, could i pay it over several weeks, like with quests?
King Uther 06-23-05, 05:44 PM	@ Rim-Soulfang I can lend you them and you pay me back slowly. How many do you need?
Caterane 06-24-05, 02:35 PM	I've opened a new poll. Please check it out.
Rim-Soulfang 06-24-05, 03:18 PM	@ King Uther 3 i think.
Deadly Assassin 06-24-05, 03:36 PM	Hey Rim, if you got a mnotice from MSN messenger about someone adding them to their list, that as probably me. My MSN handler is deadlypresence47@hotmail.com, and my display name is Godsmack kicks ass!
Jh316 06-24-05, 06:17 PM	Er, just for the record Zero, I re-read the Skills section again and it doesn't say when you get the item, just that you sit out the week if it's more than 1000 gold. And sorry about not finding tattoos, the Psionics section frightens and confuses me.
King Uther 06-24-05, 07:02 PM	Advertisement: I still need an EL 7 or 8 character for the campaign here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=437089) Read the intro, and if you like it PM me. Starts in 12 days.
King Uther 06-25-05, 01:08 AM	Rules Question: I thought I read it somewhere, but I could not locate it in the SRD. Is it reasonable to assume since a 4-armed character adds 1/2 STR to all his off-hand attacks, that if he wielded one weapon in all 4 arms he would apply 2.5 STR damage?
Jindl 06-25-05, 02:32 PM	Rules Question: I thought I read it somewhere, but I could not locate it in the SRD. Is it reasonable to assume since a 4-armed character adds 1/2 STR to all his off-hand attacks, that if he wielded one weapon in all 4 arms he would apply 2.5 STR damage? Per Core rules, there are no weapons that can be wielded with more than 2 hands. A 4-armed creature could wield 2x two-handed weapons, and deal 1.5x Str on each. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 06-25-05, 07:16 PM	I see there are still many debates going on around here. LOL...some things never change i guess. Anyhow, was "THINKING" about coming back on board. I just need the wife to give me enough space to do so. lol. Anyhow, for now just saying "Hi!" Kelek CoCo's first successful assassin.
King Uther 06-26-05, 12:38 AM	You can really get 1.5 Damage off of your second 2hand weapon? I figure it would be 1.0, since you are using two off hands.
Caterane 06-26-05, 02:26 PM	The Fascinate issue has been resolved. It is useless in the arena, and combat in general. There might be some quests and campaigns were the bard can make use of it. There is a new issue up in the Elder's Discussion Forum. Although this will be an Elder topic, I still want all of you participate in this discussion. Post your opinion in the House of Commons (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=384683), as always. @Sindorin: If you like, you can brush up the first post of the House of Commons a bit. Make a short introductionary post, perhaps a nice picture, and some links.
Sindorin 06-26-05, 06:50 PM	The Fascinate issue has been resolved. It is useless in the arena, and combat in general. There might be some quests and campaigns were the bard can make use of it. There is a new issue up in the Elder's Discussion Forum. Although this will be an Elder topic, I still want all of you participate in this discussion. Post your opinion in the House of Commons (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=384683), as always. @Sindorin: If you like, you can brush up the first post of the House of Commons a bit. Make a short introductionary post, perhaps a nice picture, and some links. That's a good idea, Cat. @ All: any suggestions for pictures? I figured I would ask since I'm no longer in the House of Commons, and it is for you all.
Pitlords 06-26-05, 07:11 PM	I think as an Elder you can take the tutelage for the House of Commons. That way you can add something to your sig LOL Well, you know, spur the discussions, give advice to the commoners, and so on. As the youngest Elder (sprung from this thread) and the founder of it you're the perfect guy for the job. And Jindl could handle the Violations thread. Interested?
LLMadCow 06-27-05, 01:46 AM	And Jindl could handle the Violations thread. Interested? So many sarcastic comments to make. I'll just let you fill in the blanks. :P
Caterane 06-27-05, 03:41 AM	He'd be the perfect guy for that :D
Jindl 06-27-05, 09:02 AM	I'm putting LLMadCow in violation for overuse of size7 font. -Jindl
LLMadCow 06-27-05, 11:09 AM	I'm putting LLMadCow in violation for overuse of size7 font. -Jindl I knew it! Put Jindl in charge of the violations thread and he goes around violating people ... I mean he goes around telling people who they violated ... I mean ... sarcasm could only be held at bay for so long! Size 7
Megrim_Lord 06-27-05, 04:55 PM	I'm putting LLMadCow in violation for overuse of size7 font. -Jindl you're just begging me to bring back my size 7 sig
Sunwolf 06-27-05, 05:14 PM	So with the 1/3 rule for spells: If someone has spells from 2 different classes, are the spell level pools counted seperately or lumped together to get spells levels available to be cast in the arena? Ex A Wiz 1/CL2 has 2 arcane spell levels and 4 cleric spell levels Does he have 2/3=1 arcane spell levels available and 4/3=2 cleric spell levels available OR (2+4)/3=2 spell levels available from either spell casting class?
Caterane 06-27-05, 05:18 PM	Each class seperately.
Iced 06-27-05, 05:24 PM	Not this next week, but the week after I think that it'd be a good idea for Griff to do a little questing. Anyone interested in running a 3 week quest for me? The objective would be purely for the benefit of his storyline; going after the rangers that his old gnome community sent to track him down. Either tracking down the rangers or going on an assasination mission. Griff would love to be the head of underdark relations... And of course more power is always good I could use some wands, rings, cloaks, boots, etc.
Caterane 06-27-05, 05:51 PM	Not this next week, but the week after I think that it'd be a good idea for Griff to do a little questing. Anyone interested in running a 3 week quest for me? The objective would be purely for the benefit of his storyline; going after the rangers that his old gnome community sent to track him down. Either tracking down the rangers or going on an assasination mission. Griff would love to be the head of underdark relations... And of course more power is always good I could use some wands, rings, cloaks, boots, etc. Deadly Assassin is looking for players.
Jh316 06-27-05, 06:43 PM	So, would the power Claws of the Beast be able to be used with weapon finesse? And are crawling tattoos included in the 20 tattoo limit?
Caterane 06-27-05, 06:59 PM	yes, natural weapons are light
Pittbull 06-28-05, 05:38 AM	I'd like to buy a special armor: A Mithril Breastplate+1 with mithril armor spikes of "Improved Magic Using", "Magic Using" means a +10 competence-bonus on use magic device. Calculating the costs I followed the improved slick armor, that means: • 5700gp for mithril breastplate+1 with mithril armorspikes • and 15000gp and 5° for making an improved slick armor an improved magic using amor So altogether that makes 20700gp and 5°. Is this right? Do you have any other ideas to get a +10comp bonus on UMD cheaper?
Rim-Soulfang 06-28-05, 09:15 AM	How does sniping work? I can't find it in the books.
King Uther 06-28-05, 09:17 AM	It's in the hide skill description. It means you can attack, then hide at a -20 penalty. If you succeed, then the opponent cannot determine where the ranged attack came from.
Tellish_of_Ket 06-28-05, 10:55 AM	Spiguy Is ready to go on a quest/campaing. Just lemme know what i need to do to get this started. @Jindl: You the violations person? Can you give him a quick once over? There are a few things i'm not entirely sure about. Kelek.
LLMadCow 06-28-05, 11:12 AM	@Jindl: You the violations person? Can you give him a quick once over? Now that's really asking for it! If you want to get Jindl's attention you need to post in ... Size 7 ... let me help you out ... @Jindl: Can you give him a quick once over? Jindl loves size 7. You see, the monitor on his desk is 142", set to 8,000 by 6,000 pixels so that EVERYTHING looks really small. Games look awesome, but sometimes he misses our posts. So, Size 7 is the way to go. :)
Jindl 06-28-05, 11:22 AM	Spiguy Is ready to go on a quest/campaing. Just lemme know what i need to do to get this started. @Jindl: You the violations person? Can you give him a quick once over? There are a few things i'm not entirely sure about. Kelek. I think Cat just wants me in charge of thread maintainance on the violations thread. Other people can still audit characters (for credits). That being said, sure I'll give him a once over :) I found these mistakes: *Hp should be 13 (6 +3.5 +3.5 +0 Con) *List bonus type as racial for saves vs fear effects. *Dagger attack bonus should be +2 (+2 bab -1 str +1 size). *Forgery is not a skill which is allowed the use of mw tools. *Listen should be +7 (Halflings get a +2 racial bonus to Listen checks). *Undercommon is not an available bonus language for halflings. *All of your armor, weapons (and ammunition) should weigh 1/2 as much for your small size. So should some of your other equipment (backpack, belt pouch) and note that these containers only hold 1/4 the normal amount of stuff. *Check the FAQ for limitations on #'s and types of allies, to determine if you can actually bring 2 riding dog allies to any event at ECL3. *Personal range powers that are scribed into tattoos cost double normal cost. Check all of you tattoo prices to see if any should be doubled. That's about all I noticed. -Jindl @All - Forgive LLMadCow. In his old age, he is going blind, deaf, and senile, which explains why he shouts, posts in obnoxiously large print, and makes frequent wild accusations. It's really not his fault. Blame Alzheimers.
SoulLord 06-28-05, 11:51 AM	Scent from the srd. The creature detects another creature’s presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If it moves within 5 feet of the scent’s source, the creature can pinpoint that source. Is there anithing in the core to remove one's scent?
Pittbull 06-28-05, 11:56 AM	Scent from the srd. Is there anithing in the core to remove one's scent? Perhaps a stinking cloud, crisis of breath or if you are wearing a Necklace of Adaptation!
Tellish_of_Ket 06-28-05, 11:59 AM	I think Cat just wants me in charge of thread maintainance on the violations thread. Other people can still audit characters (for credits). That being said, sure I'll give him a once over :) I found these mistakes: *Hp should be 13 (6 +3.5 +3.5 +0 Con) *List bonus type as racial for saves vs fear effects. *Dagger attack bonus should be +2 (+2 bab -1 str +1 size). *Forgery is not a skill which is allowed the use of mw tools. *Listen should be +7 (Halflings get a +2 racial bonus to Listen checks). *Undercommon is not an available bonus language for halflings. *All of your armor, weapons (and ammunition) should weigh 1/2 as much for your small size. So should some of your other equipment (backpack, belt pouch) and note that these containers only hold 1/4 the normal amount of stuff. *Check the FAQ for limitations on #'s and types of allies, to determine if you can actually bring 2 riding dog allies to any event at ECL3. *Personal range powers that are scribed into tattoos cost double normal cost. Check all of you tattoo prices to see if any should be doubled. That's about all I noticed. -Jindl Kk... 1) 14 hp, must have been a typo. (fixed) 2) done 3) fixed, forgot str penalty. (originally he had 10 str) 4) removed, and refunded 5) added...DOH! 6) removed and replaced 7) i think i'm going senile...(work in progress) 8) will re-read 9) i'm a complete psionic noob...so i have no idea. I'll do my best to double check. -ToK
Sindorin 06-28-05, 12:22 PM	Spiguy is ready for a quest/campaign... If you are intersted in questing/campaigning, I would recommend reading the FAQ regarding these. Also, if you want to go on a campaign, send a PM to the Campaignlord and they will see what they can do to help you. There are currently several campaigns available. Welcome back! ~Sindorin
Jindl 06-28-05, 12:45 PM	Scent from the srd. Is there anithing in the core to remove one's scent? Read the spell, Pass Without Trace.
Jindl 06-28-05, 12:47 PM	@Tellish - I'll be happy to run a quest for your new PC. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 06-28-05, 12:53 PM	@Tellish - I'll be happy to run a quest for your new PC. -Jindl I pm'd you with some of the details Jindl....i'll leave the rest up to you. I look forward to it. ToK
SoulLord 06-28-05, 01:22 PM	Read the spell, Pass Without Trace. Excelent just what I was looking for! thanks a lot
Jh316 06-28-05, 01:39 PM	Can I craft armor spikes onto armor after it's been made, or do I have to make new armor?
Tellish_of_Ket 06-28-05, 02:46 PM	Can I craft armor spikes onto armor after it's been made, or do I have to make new armor? Armor spikes can be added on afterwards. What you can't do is after those spike are on, is to make them MW quality. You would need to craft them MW right from the get-go. ToK
Jh316 06-28-05, 03:07 PM	So, do I make a new post in the character thread, or edit my old one?
KerlanRayne 06-28-05, 03:16 PM	If you are just updating that character, you edit it. There is already a record of your old sheets in every fight so you can just change it. KerlanRayne
Jh316 06-28-05, 03:26 PM	Okay... How much do Dull Grey ioun stones cost?
Luni 06-28-05, 03:28 PM	@Caterane: I was going through the Rules of Gladius thread, and under Playable Classes and races, you have the Celestial and Fiendish Templates listed as +1 LA. Shouldn't they be +2?
michael_noah 06-28-05, 03:39 PM	Okay... How much do Dull Grey ioun stones cost? I believe that they did away with them in 3.5 because there were two many good uses for them. The only thing that the SRD says about them is that they are "forever useless", so it would seem that they most likely no longer fly around your head (that would be useful).
Jh316 06-28-05, 03:41 PM	Eh? I never heard of them until I read through the 3.5's SRD, and I don't see where it says they're useless, it says they're good for 1 PP before crumbling.
michael_noah 06-28-05, 03:50 PM	Eh? I never heard of them until I read through the 3.5's SRD, and I don't see where it says they're useless, it says they're good for 1 PP before crumbling. Silly psionic items... Nevermind.
Rim-Soulfang 06-28-05, 03:54 PM	Damn, mixed up am and pm. Again. I thought the fights should be done by now, but it was 12 hours ago.
SoulLord 06-28-05, 03:58 PM	something interesting from the srd under ride uses. Attack from Cover The character can react instantly to drop down and hang alongside his or her mount, using it as one-half cover. The character can attack and cast spells while using his or her mount as cover without penalty. If the character fails, he or she doesn’t get the cover benefit. Now if only there was a way to reach that dc of 60
SoulLord 06-28-05, 04:04 PM	How does sniping work? I can't find it in the books. Its under the hide skill http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm Sniping If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a -20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot.
King Uther 06-28-05, 04:13 PM	Attention all Gladiators: The first real good vs evil group fight will be this next pairing, a nice 2 on 4 match-up that should prove interesting. Good luck to all participants. If anyone would like a similar experience, PM me and we can set something up. In addition, if anyone needs help with maps, I may not be the best but I can come up with something really fast. PM me and I can make one for you, or at least give you links to free downloadable programs.
King Uther 06-28-05, 04:45 PM	When I edit the thread names, it doesn't do anything on the title link. Anyone know the reason?
Caterane 06-28-05, 05:00 PM	Only works for a limited time after opening the thread. After that the WizO's have to do it.
Megrim_Lord 06-28-05, 07:55 PM	As to Sindorin's miniquest: I've been trying to get to it all week, but between trying to catch up with all my other games and doing stuff IRL, I really haven't had much time, so I was hoping someone could take it off my hands, and I apologize for waiting so long to post this in the first place
Zerone 06-28-05, 09:40 PM	A character cannot have a Heavy Warhorse until Level 6, correct? *•. Z
Huan 06-28-05, 09:49 PM	Correct... well, you can HAVE one, you just can't use it... ;)
Iced 06-28-05, 10:20 PM	Spiguy Is ready to go on a quest/campaing. Just lemme know what i need to do to get this started. @Jindl: You the violations person? Can you give him a quick once over? There are a few things i'm not entirely sure about. Kelek. I'm going to run a quest for King Uther, but once that is done with I'd be happy to run a quest for you.
Tellish_of_Ket 06-29-05, 10:04 AM	I'm going to run a quest for King Uther, but once that is done with I'd be happy to run a quest for you. Jindl has already replied and offered to run me through one. Thx for the offer though. On another note, The Pale-Rider is ready to go as well and @Jindl: he'll be accompanying Spiguy. -ToK
Jindl 06-29-05, 10:16 AM	On another note, The Pale-Rider is ready to go as well and @Jindl: he'll be accompanying Spiguy. -ToK I think each player is only allowed one gladiator per quest. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 06-29-05, 10:34 AM	Aha, didn't know that. K, if so then Spiguy will make the trip alone without backup, and i'd have to modify Pale-Rider for something else later. No worries. ToK
Cerebus13 06-29-05, 10:36 AM	question about crafting.... Hypothetical situation: A player crafts MW Greatsword, this costs him 400/3 gold. The market price for this weapon is 400 gold. If/when he goes to sell it would he get 50% of the price he made it for (.5 * 400/3)....or the market price (.5 * 400)?
Tellish_of_Ket 06-29-05, 10:40 AM	question about crafting.... Hypothetical situation: A player crafts MW Greatsword, this costs him 400/3 gold. The market price for this weapon is 400 gold. If/when he goes to sell it would he get 50% of the price he made it for (.5 * 400/3)....or the market price (.5 * 400)? 50% of the market price. ToK
Pittbull 06-29-05, 11:05 AM	I'd like to buy a special armor: A Mithril Breastplate+1 with mithril armor spikes of "Improved Magic Using", "Magic Using" means a +10 competence-bonus on use magic device. Calculating the costs I followed the improved slick armor, that means: • 5700gp for mithril breastplate+1 with mithril armorspikes • and 15000gp and 5° for making an improved slick armor an improved magic using amor So altogether that makes 20700gp and 5°. Is this right? Do you have any other ideas to get a +10comp bonus on UMD cheaper? Nobody has replied so far, please help me.
Cerebus13 06-29-05, 11:21 AM	Nobody has replied so far, please help me.For 15 credits you can make a magic item not related to stuff in the DMG but still calculable. The cost for skill bonus items is (bonus squared * 100). So a +10 UMD armor would be 10000gp. You have 37 credits available so this would save you about 5000 gold in exchange for 10 more credits...so I guess it depends on what you are willing to spend more of.
Jindl 06-29-05, 11:28 AM	For 15 credits you can make a magic item not related to stuff in the DMG but still calculable. The cost for skill bonus items is (bonus squared * 100). So a +10 UMD armor would be 10000gp. You have 37 credits available so this would save you about 5000 gold in exchange for 10 more credits...so I guess it depends on what you are willing to spend more of. It's going to cost him credits anyway. Since the item uses the same slot, its +50% = +15000 gp. And since that slot doesn't have an affinity with UMD, its +50% mroe = +20000 gp. So your total cost should be the cost of a +1 mithril breastplate +20000 gp for the "Magic Using" ability and 15 credits. -Jindl
Jh316 06-29-05, 11:30 AM	So...Can someone tell me how much a dull grey ioun stone costs? I've heard 25 gold, and just want to make sure.
Huan 06-29-05, 12:00 PM	dot dot dot
LLMadCow 06-29-05, 12:26 PM	So...Can someone tell me how much a dull grey ioun stone costs? I've heard 25 gold, and just want to make sure. WAIT! STOP! For starters, I've spent the last 45 minutes pouring over the books and cannot find this mysterous price of 25gp for a Dull Grey Ioun Stone. Oh, I've found the Dull Grey Ioun Stone, but it does not have a price listed. Please, link me to the spot in the SRD where it has a price listed. Better yet, point me to it in the XPHB! Look here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicItems.html) and you will find the Dull Grey Ioun Stone listed, but it has no price. XPHB, Page 160, Table 7:1 has them listed, but it does NOT list a price. Now, if you want to spend 20,000gp for Pale Lavender or 40,00gp for Lavender and Green and burn them out to Dull Grey Ioun Stones, feel free, but that is a big price to pay for that 1 point. My problem is this. Look at Cognizance Crystals. 1,000gp to store and retrieve 1PP. 25,000 for 9PP. You are going to NEVER store, only retrieve 40PP for use in ANY way you like for the same price that someone else is storing and retrieveing 1 at a time? It's not like Dull Grey Ioun Stones are found in nature - they are the burned out remains. Go buy POWER STONES!
Huan 06-29-05, 01:32 PM	If nothing else, I dare say the Dull Gray Ioun stone, relic of 3.0 days, is to be considered worthless... but not necessarily free... only "not to be sold." How about that?
Sunwolf 06-29-05, 01:33 PM	question about crafting.... Hypothetical situation: A player crafts MW Greatsword, this costs him 400/3 gold. The market price for this weapon is 400 gold. If/when he goes to sell it would he get 50% of the price he made it for (.5 * 400/3)....or the market price (.5 * 400)? Crafting in Living Gladius cost 50% in materials. He could then sell it for 50% of full market price if he chooses for break even in gold.
Jh316 06-29-05, 01:39 PM	I was under the impression that you'd only be able to use them one at a time, so it'd be 40 first-level powers without augmentation if you wanted.
Sunwolf 06-29-05, 01:49 PM	Since there is apparently some confusion about this among the pitlords -- I would like an official ruling: Is lay on hand healing subject to the 1/3 rule? It is not limited in number of times a day it can be used but by how much healing is available. I have seen it ruled both ways (all available) and (1/3 available) so which way is the correct ruling?
Caterane 06-29-05, 02:06 PM	@Pittbull: There are two ways to get that: You may pay 10° to get the right to buy custom permanent items related to the ones in the DMG. Or they may use a different body slot which still needs to fulfill the body slot affinity on p288, DMG. Alternatively, you may combine different magic items in one slot. You may not change the type of bonus (eg. deflection -> insight). You may combine this with one of the other customizations but you need to pay the combined credit cost. Example: Belt of health+2 (different slot), Gloves of strength and dexterity+4 (combined slot), Hat of listen+5 (related item; see eyes of the eagle+5). Hat of listen+5 would fall into the same categorie as a Thing of UMD+5, for 10° and 2500 gp. The slot would be choosable by you but don't make it underwear or something illogical. If +5 is not enough, then you can either combine the one above with that: You may pay 15° to get the right to buy custom permanent items with a different bonus than the ones listed in the DMG, higher than the maximum listed in the DMG unless it is specifically prohibited by the rules (like no +6 Longsword). may combine this with one of the other customizations but you need to pay the combined credit cost. Example: Headband of intellect+7, Cloak of elvenkind+10, Ion stone +4 dex, Cloak of resistance+6. Which is pretty credit heavy (25° so far, and 10.000 gp) for a Thing of UMB+10. Or you could go with your armor idea where you don't have to pay for going over the maximum bonus provided in the DMG. See my first quote for reference: You may pay 10° to get the right to buy custom permanent items related to the ones in the DMG. Armor of UMD+15 is similar to Armor of Slickness+15, so 10° but the total price would go up by 50% because UMD is not related to armor, to 28,200 total for the whole armor.
Huan 06-29-05, 02:19 PM	The team for the Campaign "The Arbiter War" (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=445358) is finalized. Team: 1. Archangel Ixenthor (Caterane) 2. Sokai Calanis (Sindorin) 3. Necavi Omnes (Xanadu) 4. Sinnoch Wildstorm (King Uther) 5. Telveran Trueblade (Sunwolf) Actually, since Gareth was already with another Campaign, and Rhoar could not be completed in time, that dropped the number down to a comfortable 5. I thank them both for applying, though. To the accepted players, please prepare your character accordingly during this final week, for we start next week. :) NOTE: There are still slots open for the Campaign "The Grand Heists" (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=448846), so don't be shy about applying!
Pittbull 06-29-05, 02:33 PM	Thank you, that has been a great help, since there is some time until ECL11 league is opened, I can collect a lot of credits to be finally able to pay this huge amount. Thanks a lot!
Jh316 06-29-05, 02:35 PM	So, since it says I'm able to use regular stones with a sling, could I just pick rocks up off the ground in the colluseum and arm them? What kind of an action would that be?
Huan 06-29-05, 03:23 PM	If any of my players wish to pull out of the campaign for their own reasons, I completely understand, but email that today! Finally, if credits are a problems, I can loan out credits to any of my players in need.
Caterane 06-29-05, 04:05 PM	So, since it says I'm able to use regular stones with a sling, could I just pick rocks up off the ground in the colluseum and arm them? What kind of an action would that be? We have no real rules for that but I like this idea. Let's say the ground of the coco provides an unlimited amount of stones that can be used for slings. This gives the sling a slight boost which it can use. In a campaign, you can find rocks easily. Picking up an object is a move-equivalent action.
Jh316 06-29-05, 04:38 PM	I mean, what would picking it up and loading it be? Standard? Full-round?
Tellish_of_Ket 06-29-05, 04:56 PM	Well, it would then me a move action to load the sling as per the rules. IMHO, you're much better off just buying the stones. Otherwise your sling fires at the same rate as a hvy xbow, but does CONSIDERABLY less dmg. -ToK
Jh316 06-29-05, 05:13 PM	The sling's only there in case I ever need it, like if I'm fighting something that's flying and I'm out of arrows. And it's considerably cheaper and lighter than buying a heavy crossbow and bolts, as by the time I learn I'm fighting a flying creature, it's too late to edit my character sheet to take the crossbow out of storage, isn't it?
Tellish_of_Ket 06-29-05, 05:23 PM	nope, not really. You can have the xbow on ur character sheet, and if you aren't flying someone with any flying capablity, you can opt to leave ur xbow at home (as specified in ur tactics) and free yourself of the weight. -ToK
Caterane 06-30-05, 06:50 AM	I want to inform you that the Characters of Gladius thread works normally again. I was able to edit my sheets easily. If you still have problems, tell me. For those of you who have posted a sheet in the backup thread, do not edit that post. You can freely edit your regular sheet of course since that won't be used this week. I want to thank WizO_Mel and her team for the quick fix. The boards were down this night for 2 hours to repair the Characters thread and they made it. Great work! You have the gratitude of the Core Coliseum. :thumbsup:
Pittbull 06-30-05, 06:58 AM	Yes, it works again! Praise the WIZOs!!
Sindorin 06-30-05, 09:54 AM	Now how about those subtitles under our screen names? Pittbull and I want our Council of Elder titles, dammit!
Tellish_of_Ket 06-30-05, 10:22 AM	Now how about those subtitles under our screen names? Pittbull and I want our Council of Elder titles, dammit! I wanted Supreme Being, but i don't think they are going to accomodate it. Hehehe...I guess Council Elder will have to do. -ToK
Sindorin 06-30-05, 10:24 AM	Hmm... having "The Sweetest Sin" would be kind of fun for this account.
Caterane 06-30-05, 12:58 PM	@Gonbow: Welcome to the CoCo!! I'll add your PC in a minute. @Tellish: Are you going to stay this time? If yes, then you'll get your seat in the Council back. No questions asked. @Sindorin/Pittbull: Believe me, I'm trying to get you your titles since January. They have a problem with the database of something. I'll dispatch another mail.
Gonbow 06-30-05, 01:10 PM	Thank you Caterane, I was just about to post and say hi to ya'll. This looks like an interesting place; my character sheet is a little devoid of flavor, but I can add description/background at any time, right?
Tellish_of_Ket 06-30-05, 01:11 PM	@Tellish: Are you going to stay this time? If yes, then you'll get your seat in the Council back. No questions asked. For how long i dunno. But for now i'm here to stay. Life changes and i have to change with it. -ToK
Jh316 06-30-05, 04:53 PM	Y'know, I think that crossbows should have a strength requirment for loading. Somthing like 7-9 for a heavy It just doesn't seem like someone with 6 strength could be able to wind a heavy crossbow, at least not as one full-round action. Manipulating the lever on a light crossbow shouldn't have a strength requirment, though. Well, maybe have one of 5 or so that makes it a standard action.
Huan 07-01-05, 10:52 AM	For those who have not noticed, the COCO links to the CO from the Characters Thread. The CO boards mutually advertises for us, too. (Being the old stomping ground of the COCO, its only natural) This month's CO contest theme was FIRE, and there were many interesting entries. So please vote (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=445291) for the fire character you like best.
Pitlords 07-01-05, 01:17 PM	@all: The Paladin's Lay on Hands ability is not subject to the 1/3 rule. @Astrid: Welcome to the Core Coliseum. Your character is on the Roster. If you have any questions, feel free to ask them here.
Sindorin 07-01-05, 01:37 PM	@all: The Paladin's Lay on Hands ability is not subject to the 1/3 rule. @Astrid: Welcome to the Core Coliseum. Your character is on the Roster. If you have any questions, feel free to ask them here. Yay, just one week after I post a new paladin, he gets a boost from the council!
Tellish_of_Ket 07-01-05, 01:39 PM	@ALL: Anyone CURRENTLY building a map of Gladius and it's surrounding environs? And i do mean already have work in progress. Otherwise to keep myself busy for the summer (our plant is shut down and i have LOADS of time), i will begin the effort to build us a map. -ToK
Sindorin 07-01-05, 01:42 PM	hehehe
Caterane 07-01-05, 01:48 PM	@Purkake: You're already a member; you just don't know it yet :D
Tellish_of_Ket 07-01-05, 01:49 PM	bump
Sindorin 07-01-05, 01:49 PM	I think we are all a bit confused.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-01-05, 02:04 PM	must be mike's drugs again.
Pittbull 07-01-05, 03:40 PM	Isn't Mike in Italy at the moment? Perahps he's having a party with MO!
Caterane 07-01-05, 03:44 PM	I think it was Motherbast who moved to Italy because of a woman. At least it was not because of Guildwars
Pittbull 07-01-05, 03:51 PM	I meant MB, now I'm confused :confused: !
Salrantol 07-01-05, 03:54 PM	my character sheet is a little devoid of flavor, but I can add description/background at any time, right? Anytime except between 9PM GMT on Wednesday (if you're active) and when your fight/quest/miniquest/etc. is completed.
Caterane 07-01-05, 03:56 PM	Mike (aka MarketShare) is that crazy but funny guy from Montreal Where is he btw?
Tellish_of_Ket 07-01-05, 04:12 PM	Mike (aka MarketShare) is that crazy but funny guy from Montreal Where is he btw? Still in Montreal playing LG. Haven't really talked to him since i got married. The bonds are hard to break free from if you know what i mean. lol -ToK
King Uther 07-01-05, 04:15 PM	@ToK Ninjas robbed the secret!
Caterane 07-01-05, 04:15 PM	As are bonds of friendship. Try to get him back here. I think I should retrieve some of his stories from the old fights thread and add them to the Hall of Fame. @Uther: Didn't you want to make it a surprise? I scolded poor Sindorin for giving it away.
Sindorin 07-01-05, 04:21 PM	Ha.
Huan 07-01-05, 04:28 PM	We should have kept it a surprise... :nonono:
King Uther 07-01-05, 04:41 PM	Ninja stealth can keep it a secret. Just look at where it was. My bad.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-01-05, 09:21 PM	OK, Cat...time to shoot down another argument of mine. I've been reading some quests and i find that almost EVERYONE is readying outside of the combat. You cannot ready an action outside of combat. Just thought you should know that. Ok, time for the slams. -ToK
KerlanRayne 07-02-05, 06:34 AM	With the slayer PrC in the SRD you choose a psionic creature asa favored enemy. Can you choose Phrenic creatures? It's a template. Half Giants? They are actually type Giant. Elan? They are type Abberation. Does it matter? KerlanRayne
Caterane 07-02-05, 06:57 AM	@Tok: Huh? I can't remember a fight where this happened. @KR: I think it needs to have the psionic subtype
Rim-Soulfang 07-02-05, 07:36 AM	THE PSIONIC SUBTYPE The psionic subtype applies to creatures that can use psionic powers or abilities or that have the ability to manifest powers. (In other words, a creature with the psionic subtype either has a power point reserve or has psi-like abilities.) It also applies to creatures from other sources that have spell-like abilities labeled as “psionics.” Characters who have levels in any class that grants the use of psionics, or who have psi-like abilities as racial traits, gain the psionic subtype. Traits: Other than the fact that all psionic creatures have psionic powers or psi-like abilities, psionic creatures have no specific traits. The psionic subtype simply identifies creatures that may be vulnerable to powers, spells, and effects targeting psionic creatures.Hmmm, then you should be able to choose Humanoid(elf)(psionic) to get the slayer bonus against elven psions, wilders and psy warriors as well as phrenic elves.
Caterane 07-02-05, 07:48 AM	@all Pit-, Quest- and Campaignlords: The title of your thread must look exactly like that: Quest - "NAME" [EL X] Campaign - "NAME" [EL X] Arena - "PC1 vs PC2" [ECL X] In case of team fights with long names or many participants, choose a title instead of the names. In case of different ECLs, write [ECL 3-5] for example. Please stick to these titles! Thanks.
Pittbull 07-02-05, 08:38 AM	This might be an old question, but please help me: I know the 1/3-rule also aplies for prebuffs, but what happens if you have a ring of sustenance, do you get more PPs to prebuff, because you can refresh your PP-reserve in a shorter time? Daily Power Point Acquisition To regain used daily power points, a psionic character must have a clear mind. To clear his mind, he must first sleep for 8 hours. The character does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but he must refrain from movement, combat, manifesting powers, skill use, conversation, or any other demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If his rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time he has to rest to clear his mind, and he must have at least 1 hour of rest immediately prior to regaining lost power points. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, he still must have 8 hours of restful calm before regaining power points. Sustenance This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.
Caterane 07-02-05, 09:05 AM	The time you need to rest has no effect on the amount of your daily allotment. Outsiders sleep not at all but still can only prepare their normal amount of spells.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-02-05, 11:13 AM	Accepting applications for "A History Lesson" Apply By PM Only!! This is not a first come first serve, but each character that applies will be reviewed by myself. Factors that will be taken into account: 1) reliability 2) quested before without problems 3) punctuality (ie. not often late with posts, fights, tactics etc...) ...and other general things like that. This is a two-part campaign. Each part is 6 months, as per normal. However, once that is finished Part II will begin with those having participated in Part I being given precedent. -ToK
Rim-Soulfang 07-02-05, 11:37 AM	Rules Question: I thought I read it somewhere, but I could not locate it in the SRD. Is it reasonable to assume since a 4-armed character adds 1/2 STR to all his off-hand attacks, that if he wielded one weapon in all 4 arms he would apply 2.5 STR damage?It's in Savage Species, if you wield a weapon 4 handed you add 2,5 times your strenght and any weapon in PHB/SRD can be lenghtened for use with more then 2 hands.
Jh316 07-02-05, 05:20 PM	How do psionic arms and armor work? Does it still cost 1000 gold to give an armor or shield +1 AC, and 3000 to give a weapon +1 attack and damage? And do you also have to have it +1 before adding other attributes?
Shaken, not Stunned 07-02-05, 05:31 PM	I just posted my first character on the characters board. I also listed him as ready for this coming wednesday. Will I be informed of who my opponent is to be, and may I at that time send my tactics, or must I send my tactics to immidiately? If the latter is true, to whom do I send them?
Deadly Assassin 07-02-05, 05:53 PM	Pitlords (the account) will post the week's pairings in the Battles thread Wednesday, at which time you will find out who you are fighting and who your fight's pitlord will be. From that time until Friday evening/night (or possibly later if your pitlord is nice), you can send tactics to your pitlord. Then the fight will be run and then posted before the next weeks fights.
Caterane 07-02-05, 06:03 PM	JH: Same as magic stuff @Shaken: As DA said, pairings are every wednesday 9 PM GMT (Western European Time). To answer your questions, look at the Characters of Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=359951) thread. The 4th post shows the pairings. Example: Felice tu'Ria (Salrantol) vs Goran the Beast (KerlanRayne): Malither Salrantol's character Felice fights against KerlanRayne's character, Goran. The fight will be moderated by Malither to whom both have to send tactics till saturday. Malither will then run the fight and post it in the Battles of Gladius till monday or tuesday. Study your opponoment well before you send tactics. You'll find all infos about your foe in the 2nd post of the characters thread. I suggest to read the Quickstart Guide (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179917) or the Rules of Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6463399).
Shaken, not Stunned 07-02-05, 06:47 PM	Thanks much.
Jh316 07-02-05, 07:02 PM	Am I able to enchant normal clothing like armor? Nevermind, I'll just use padded armor for enchantments. I'm making a Soulknife who's just going to use tattoos of Intertial Armor instead of armor. Hey, what's the DC for Autohpynosis to resist dying? In the chart it says DC 20, but in the text it says DC 15.
Jh316 07-02-05, 08:21 PM	Hm, is this an error? In the Psionic Items section, it lists examples of crawling tattoos, and one of which is a Crawling Tattoo of Concussion. It lists it as being ML 1 and 50 gold, but when I looked up the stats of Concussion Blast, it lists it as being a second-level Psion/wilder power.
KerlanRayne 07-03-05, 01:18 AM	Hmmm, then you should be able to choose Humanoid(elf)(psionic) to get the slayer bonus against elven psions, wilders and psy warriors as well as phrenic elves.Wow, think so? Anyone else have an opinion? KerlanRayne
LLMadCow 07-03-05, 06:34 AM	Hmmm, then you should be able to choose Humanoid(elf)(psionic) to get the slayer bonus against elven psions, wilders and psy warriors as well as phrenic elves. As far as I can tell, based on everything I have read in the XPHB and the SRD 3.5, the Slayer's Favored Enemy (Ex) Bonus should work as follows: Take any of the creature types listed on the Ranger's Favored Enemy list, slap on the additional (Psionic) sub-type on the end of it and everything is fair game. So, in yor given example, Humanoid (elf)(psionic), a Slayer would get their boni against the following: Elven Psion, Elven Psychic Warrior, Elven Soul Knife and Elven Wilder, Phrenic Elves and Any Elf who takes the Wild Talent Feat. These six are the basis for any qualifying for any of the Prestige Classes, so all of the bases should be covered. Remember that included in the sub-type (elf) are the following: Elf (High Elf), Half-Elf, Aquatic Elf (Sea Elf), Drow (Dark Elf), Gray Elf, Wild Elf (Grugach) and Wood Elf (Sylvan). LL
Gonbow 07-03-05, 01:42 PM	Since characters can start as plane-touched here, this question has come bearing on CoCo: Do Aasimar's and Tieflings start proficient with Simple and Martial weapons, as per the Outsider Type Trait (as opposed to racial hit die things)? This won't make much of a difference for the vast majority of players, but I would like to know what the consensus on this is.
Sindorin 07-03-05, 01:45 PM	Their type does grant them martial and simple weapone proficiency, yes (See Jindl's Aku for a great example of using this).
Jh316 07-03-05, 02:50 PM	So, if one of my drow poison arrows misses, and it doesn't break, is it still poisoned? Also, how does masterwork ammunition work? Does it stack with the launcher's masterwork?
Iced 07-03-05, 03:59 PM	So, if one of my drow poison arrows misses, and it doesn't break, is it still poisoned? Also, how does masterwork ammunition work? Does it stack with the launcher's masterwork? #1. dunno #2. doesn't stack with masterwork weapon. If you had a regular bow and fired masterwork ammunition you getthe +1 I think.
Beldin 07-03-05, 05:31 PM	1: it is still poisoned
Erithmu 07-03-05, 08:30 PM	Just checking in ... I have been lurking around here for a bit now and am going for my first fight this week. I am comming over from the roleplay forums so this should be interesting, and different.
Caterane 07-03-05, 08:33 PM	Welcome Erithmu! We are always glad to see new faces here! I'll add your character at once. The FAQ should answer most of your questions, if not, the Tavern surely will :)
Jh316 07-03-05, 09:43 PM	Would a magical item increasing intelligence increase my bonus spells and maximum spell level known, or just base intelligence? Thinking about making Sasha an Assasin. Oh, and for Death Strike, when it says the DC is modified by the assassin's class level, does that mean all class levels, or just how many assassin levels she has?
Tellish_of_Ket 07-03-05, 09:49 PM	Would a magical item increasing intelligence increase my bonus spells and maximum spell level known, or just base intelligence? Thinking about making Sasha an Assasin. Oh, and for Death Strike, when it says the DC is modified by the assassin's class level, does that mean all class levels, or just how many assassin levels she has? Just how many assassin levels he/she has. -ToK
Jh316 07-03-05, 10:06 PM	Do competence bonuses stack? Such as if I had a cloak of elvenkind and drank an elixer of hiding, would I have +10 or +15?
Cerebus13 07-03-05, 10:08 PM	Do competence bonuses stack? Such as if I had a cloak of elvenkind and drank an elixer of hiding, would I have +10 or +15?Bonuses with the same type typically do not stack. Dodge bonuses (and a couple others I don't remember) are an exception to this rule however. Competence bonuses unfortunately are not and thus cannot stack.
Jh316 07-03-05, 10:10 PM	Ah well, not too bad. I can still get +20 from a tattoo of chameleon and and the elixer, which is enough to eliminate the sniping penalty right there.
Jh316 07-03-05, 10:34 PM	Y'know, I think I'm looking at this all wrong. The more I think about my tactics, the more she seems like someone who sticks to hiding behind cover and sniping using poisoned arrows, very rarely coming into melee combat, she seems more like a rogue than a Soulknife. Since I havn't been in a match with her, can I delete stuff and get it back for full price, or do I have to sell it for half-off? If the latter, I won't bother.
Gonbow 07-03-05, 10:48 PM	I'll post this here, since as I'm not an Elder I really cant post it over there, buit... Monks CAN use Two-weapon fighting with Flurry of blows, or unarmed strikes period. They could NOT in 3.0, SPECIFICALLY as was qouted in the council thread, but that was changed in 3.5 See this thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=179686 Post number 7 outlines this, by a Wizards staff member.
Huan 07-03-05, 11:32 PM	@Gonbow If I may, I would like to redirect you to the House of Commons (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=456309), the area where non-Elders can discuss the same isssues Elders are. You may also want to consider copy/pasting your post over there where it will be more identifiable. We are all glad for your active input, however. :)
Gonbow 07-03-05, 11:52 PM	@Huan So that is where it goes. Mmkay. Thanks for the tip, I'll copy it over there now.
Sindorin 07-04-05, 03:39 AM	Okay. I just finished participating in the RL campaign we're trying to do here. I almost hate playing anymore because I know so many more rules than my DM... but I do have one question, just to make sure... DM rolls a natural 20 to attack me with a rapier. To confirm the crit chance, he rolls another natural twenty. He then claims that it gets another confirmation roll, which he rolls as an 18. He then claims it crits doing WAY more damage than a rapier ever could do... like x3 or something. I contested saying that a crit will only ever multiply once, you either confirm or you don't and you cannot critically confirm, and he says no that is not true, he said that on a natural twenty to confirm you can confirm again... Which is correct? I may be stressed out beyond my own understanding for an unknown reason these days, but the way he was running the game just seemed a bit wrong at some points... I mean, he claimed that he was running a core-only campaign... yet we're not allowed to multi class. Anyway, yeah, what should happen with the "triple crit"? If his ruling is correct, it is outrageous and I didn't even want to let him know that the rapier has an 18-20 threat range and he should roll to confirm a fourth time... I don't know, I guess it flustered me just a bit (it put Xaseus at 0, so it wasn't a big deal, but he made me look like an idiot). Could someone please clarify for my sanity's sake? Thanks. ~Sindorin
Jh316 07-04-05, 03:47 AM	There's no rule to do that, but your DM can houserule in whatever he wants.
Sindorin 07-04-05, 03:52 AM	Yeah, I can't find it anywhere. It was just that he said it would be a Core campaign, so I guess I expected the rules to be, well, the Core ones. Then again, I suppose it is far from Core in that he won't allow us to use any race from the monster manual, and will not allow us to multiclass. He even tried to say that the 20 to confirm the crit made it an "instant kill." It was ridiculous. At this point in that campaign, I am just along for the ride, I don't care what happens to me anymore because he's just trying to screw me over.
Purkake 07-04-05, 04:00 AM	This is 100% house rule. It's one of those that many people use so it might seem like it's core. It probably came because people felt that rolling 2 natural 20-s should get you something more. In some campaigns there is the very "cool" rule that 2 20-s and a confirm is an insta-kill so you were lucky enough ;)
Sindorin 07-04-05, 04:25 AM	Yeah, I figured that it was just a house rule... I think it flustered me because he went over what would be different from the core rules and what would not - and the whole crit thing was not one of them. The only house rules he told us he was having was that Dodge doesn't have to be declared, and that Color Spray is banned (which doesn't really make a difference because we don't have a wizard). So all of a sudden I get knocked out because of some crit rule he made up or was taught - it just made me feel stupid when I said that's not how it goes... Oh well. I survived somehow so I will be wary of that, and I'll probably ask him some annoying questions :).
Caterane 07-04-05, 05:18 AM	This is indeed a house rule and nowhere mentioned in the rules. Coincidently, my group has this houserule too, and all agreed on it. This is the lighter variant of the Optional Rule of Instant Kills (20 -> 20 -> confirm = dead). Now, a 2nd 20 (1 in 400 chance) increases the multiplyer by 1. Makes combat a bit more random and dangerous which is a good thing imo.
Huan 07-04-05, 08:41 AM	At my table, if one rolls a natural 20, to be confirmed by another natural 20 (and that one is confirmed by another hit), then you deal maximum possible damage with that weapon. This has actually happened more than a few times (three times in one session, once)... In my opinion, it makes for a pleasantly theatrical/dramatic effect.
SoulLord 07-04-05, 08:52 AM	As satisfactory as that is when it happens. unless your dm fudges the rolls you are going to be subject to it a lot more than you will be inflicting upon your foes.
xanadu 07-04-05, 10:12 AM	Sindorin, I know how you feel. The guy I play with is still stuck in 2nd edition and makes so many mistakes I have stopped trying to correct him in order to keep the game moving. WHen you pitlord here, you are forced to become an expert on much minutia! SoulLord's right. If you play w/ devastating critical effects kills I think it best to play a wizard :)
Sindorin 07-04-05, 01:02 PM	Still, I would have been fine with the way he rolled and ruled had he told us in the beginning that this was in effect. I probably need to stop holding back and not killing people (I have Xaseus using his glaive to disarm people and get them to surrender, or he doesn't even use the glaive and instead simply takes their weapon from them instead of killing them). The DM knows I know the rules better and I think that may be why he tries to make it hard.
Caterane 07-04-05, 01:36 PM	Who's that? => :weep: :weep: :weep: http://www.1a-network.de/images/cgi-bin/gbs/smilies/heul.gif http://www.1a-network.de/images/cgi-bin/gbs/smilies/cry.gif http://boards1.wizards.com/images/avatars/MTGCHK_MelokutheCloudedMirr.jpg http://www.1a-network.de/images/cgi-bin/gbs/smilies/THEFIN.gif
Iced 07-04-05, 01:39 PM	@Sindorin - Just write he new rule down and next time you roll 3 20's in a row against that Tarrasque claim the instakill...;-)
Malither76 07-04-05, 01:54 PM	this is an optional rule which would fall under house rull, its in the DMG as one of the optional rules when 2 20's are roled in a row if the third role is confirmed its intant kill, yes house rule but it is in the books
Deadly Assassin 07-04-05, 02:26 PM	When can a character get a heavy warhorse?
Caterane 07-04-05, 02:32 PM	At ECL 6. Formula is CR = your ECL-4. Minimum CR 1. That's always allowed.
Deadly Assassin 07-04-05, 02:39 PM	At ECL 6. Formula is CR = your ECL-4. Minimum CR 1. That's always allowed. Now, does that mean I can't have one until ECL 6 period, or just just ECL 6 if I want to use it in the Arena?
Zerone 07-04-05, 03:17 PM	You can have whatever animals/monsters you want. You can only bring into the arena for a fight CR = your ECL -4. CR1 creatures are always allowed, no matter your ECL. *•. Z
Deadly Assassin 07-04-05, 04:20 PM	Would anyone be willing to transfer a file of the MM to me over MSN or AIM? MSN: deadlypresence47@hotmail.com AIM: deadlypresence47
Tellish_of_Ket 07-04-05, 04:21 PM	Players still needed for A History Lesson, Part 1 PM me if interested. I'd like to start this Wednesday if possible. -ToK
SoulLord 07-04-05, 05:41 PM	If a fight is to be extended for X reason can one just forfeit the win so he can get a chance to be paired for next week?
Pitlords 07-04-05, 06:06 PM	Sure, you can surrender anytime. But let's wait until wednesday.
Gonbow 07-04-05, 08:26 PM	Given the number of item-based buffs everyone uses (and my character will undoubtedly shortly use), where do you put the post noting where you are getting them? Or do you just note it in your expenditures thing on your character sheet and are assumed to have access to everything that doesn't require the blackmarket?
KerlanRayne 07-05-05, 04:07 AM	Given the number of item-based buffs everyone uses (and my character will undoubtedly shortly use), where do you put the post noting where you are getting them? Or do you just note it in your expenditures thing on your character sheet and are assumed to have access to everything that doesn't require the blackmarket?Expenditures is for Expendable items like potions, scrolls, etc, and for permanent items you have sold off. Magic items likes Stat Booters are just listed under equipment with thir price next to them. You might want to check out a few of the higher level PCs to see how it's done. KerlanRayne
Purkake 07-05-05, 10:22 AM	Hey, I was thinking here. If there was a really buffed out evil cleric that managed to command Anna(or and other undead character) what would you do?
King Uther 07-05-05, 10:26 AM	@Purkake What if someone teleports you out of the arena followed by an Imprisonment spell? Or what if you get hit by a memory loss arrow? There are permanent consequences of some attacks/spells that haven't made an impact yet, but may soon.
Jindl 07-05-05, 10:33 AM	@Purkake What if someone teleports you out of the arena followed by an Imprisonment spell? Or what if you get hit by a memory loss arrow? There are permanent consequences of some attacks/spells that haven't made an impact yet, but may soon. The Nimbus corrects all permanent damage / negative effects after each fight. As for Purkake's question, Anna has ways of dealing with clerics. Although for a character idea, an evil cleric focused on commanding undead allies is pretty neat. Imagine commanding a couple of wraiths to attack your foes at higher levels. Pretty scary...
King Uther 07-05-05, 10:44 AM	What if you teleport them out of the Nimbus? Surely that's possible.
Jindl 07-05-05, 10:50 AM	What if you teleport them out of the Nimbus? Surely that's possible. The point is that no permanent harm can come to your character in an arena fight. If you took steps that would result in permanent harm occuring outside the Nimbus, then the powerful forces behind the arena would bring the character back within the Nimbus and correct whatever harm occurred. Joe doesn't like losing popular gladiators...
SoulLord 07-05-05, 11:08 AM	Quick question regarding spell memorization. Do I have to write on my sheet the spells I have memorized for the week? or can I choose in my tactics the spells I have memorized for the day?
King Uther 07-05-05, 11:09 AM	@ Jindl Fair enough.
Purkake 07-05-05, 11:47 AM	So commanding would just be like turning and the turner/commander would win and the undead would just go free? Sounds okay. BTW: Plane shift is more eevil than just a teleport, especially when you have a good vs evil fight :devil:
Jindl 07-05-05, 11:56 AM	Just FYI: Teleport and Greater Teleport are willing creatures only. You would need a teleportation circle trap to teleport someone offensively, which is a 9th level spell that has a 10 minute casting time. Plane shift can be used offensively, but is a 5th level cleric/7th level wizard spell that also allows a Will save. There are other, equally effective save or die spells at those levels, making the plane shift strategy no better than a normal save or die strategy. -Jindl
Purkake 07-05-05, 12:36 PM	But an evil cleric planeshifting some goody-two-shoes paladin to the gray waste is soo much more stylish than just killing him with a slay living :D
Tellish_of_Ket 07-05-05, 01:48 PM	HOLD UP!!! I was just review the rules for Turning, rebuking, commanding, destroying undead and all that other good stuff. My question is. SRD Destroying Undead: If you have twice as many levels (or more) as the undead have Hit Dice, you destroy any that you would normally turn. SRD Evil Clerics and Undead Evil clerics channel negative energy to rebuke (awe) or command (control) undead rather than channeling positive energy to turn or destroy them. An evil cleric makes the equivalent of a turning check. Undead that would be turned are rebuked instead, and those that would be destroyed are commanded. So as it reads, you need to be able to DESTROY them to command them and to do that you need to be twice it's level. Ariel has only 2 cleric levels, not enough to destroy them, but yet she commands a ghould of 2 hd. Just wondering how is that possible. I would accept a substitution to 2 skeletons without having to mini-quest again. If i am wrong, plz show me how and where. -ToK
Purkake 07-05-05, 01:54 PM	I would think that it has something to do with the turning roll, where you get a bonus or panalty to your levels. I wonder why dont they have grater commanding like the greater turning in the Sun domain.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-05-05, 02:19 PM	Well, at first i just assumed she had Improved Turning, (+1 effective lvl to turn), but she doesn't. Even if she did, it's only to turn and rebuke, not command/destroy. This is very important as i'm building a cleric and would like to know the answer. Cuz if i can command an undead that equals my ECL then that's a pretty important fact to know. -ToK
King Uther 07-05-05, 02:28 PM	I agree. You can make a POWERFUL cleric under that presumption. Imagine fighting a cleric with a Nightwing flying around.
Cerebus13 07-05-05, 02:29 PM	Well, at first i just assumed she had Improved Turning, (+1 effective lvl to turn), but she doesn't. Even if she did, it's only to turn and rebuke, not command/destroy. This is very important as i'm building a cleric and would like to know the answer. Cuz if i can command an undead that equals my ECL then that's a pretty important fact to know. -ToKI think you're correct with your interpretation there ToK. You have to have 2x an Undead's hitdice in your cleric level in order to command them. Only ways around this that I can see would be to artificially boost your level for turn checks, or use the Sun domain power to make turns=destroy and rebukes=command.
Caterane 07-05-05, 02:35 PM	Ariel rolled an 18 on the rebuke check which granted her a +3 bonus to her cleric level, bringing her to 5. And this is more twice as much as a ghoul has HD.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-05-05, 02:41 PM	I don't think it's JUST ur cleric lvl needed to command and destroy. Both SRD and PHB are pretty specific that it's just YOUR LEVEL. However, a Cleric 1/Fighter 9, would be very hard pressed to turn even a simple shadow. A shadow has 3 hd, +2 turn resistance and thus is 5HD to turn. The most you can roll on your turn check is cleric lvl +4. Hope for a 20. Where as a 10th lvl cleric wouldn't even give a shadow a second thought, even on a roll of 1!. Turn, oops, ur mine. So in my example above and the problem with Ariel's pet, you can see, that this can be broken very fast. Because you don't want a 7th lvl cleric controlling a wraith. (5hd+2 turn resistance, CR 5 (which is ur ECL-2)). BAD BAD BAD -ToK
Caterane 07-05-05, 02:47 PM	You need to be ECL 9 to enter with a CR 5 creature
Tellish_of_Ket 07-05-05, 02:57 PM	Ariel rolled an 18 on the rebuke check which granted her a +3 bonus to her cleric level, bringing her to 5. And this is more twice as much as a ghoul has HD. Wrong. That only shows the maximum HD you can affect with your turn attempt. It has nothing to do with control. It doesn't "ADD 3 lvls to your cleric lvls", it's "CLERIC" lvl +3 to see what is the strongest hd undead you can affect. Read the example of Jozan the 3rd lvl turning zombies. He gets a result of 21 (enough to turn an undead of up to 6 HD). And he only TURNS the zombies, not destroys them. That isn't flavor text either. The turn check does not give you extra levels, it's only to see what HD undead you can affect. You still need to follow the rest of the rules. -TOK
Tellish_of_Ket 07-05-05, 03:04 PM	If YOU have twice as many levels (or more) as the undead have Hit Dice, you destroy any that you would normally turn. Its YOUR levels, not YOUR TURN CHECK result in HD! -ToK
Luni 07-05-05, 03:06 PM	So in other words, ToK, I would have to be an 8th level cleric to control a single ghoul. (2HD +2 Turn resistance)*2=8 I thought turning worked like Caterane does as well.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-05-05, 03:13 PM	absolutely. Remember, intelligent undead are MUCH tougher to control. No simple lucky rolling cleric can just bully them around at random. He could still command a powerful horde of skeletons or zombies though. Much more powerful than a single ghoul. Just as a quick example of your 8th lvl cleric, you could control 4 wolf skeletons (not the best, but just quickly off the top of my head) each of HD 2, or 2 large advanced wolf skeletons each of HD 4. Or 8 one-hd skeleks. whatever you choose. If it was as you described (just using the turn check), my uber charismatic domain-tweaked cleric of 5 lvl getting a result of +4, making it 9 HD....that is a VERY powerful number to play with for such a low-lvl cleric. Much min/maxing can result. In a real campaign, you would get out of control very fast. -ToK
King Uther 07-05-05, 03:17 PM	Regardless of your turn result, you cannot command more HD than your level. But, as the rules seem to indicate, your turning check can grant you the ability to command an undead that is more than 1/2 your HD because you are effectively using a higher cleric level for your effects. I think in this sense she can have the ghoul.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-05-05, 03:21 PM	Regardless of your turn result, you cannot command more HD than your level. But, as the rules seem to indicate, your turning check can grant you the ability to command an undead that is more than 1/2 your HD because you are effectively using a higher cleric level for your effects. I think in this sense she can have the ghoul. Why? Because of a lucky roll? That doesn't make sense, even by WoTC rules standards. And no, the turning check doesn't give you the ability to command undead greater than half ur lvls, the turning check doesn't give you extra levels, it just tells you how strong of an undead you can turn. That turn check has NOTHING to do with your own levels that are being considered and required for control. -ToK
Tellish_of_Ket 07-05-05, 03:44 PM	Turning Check: The first thing you do is roll a turning check to see how powerful an undead creature you can turn. This is a Charisma check (1d20 + your Charisma modifier). Table: Turning Undead gives you the Hit Dice of the most powerful undead you can affect, relative to your level. On a given turning attempt, you can turn no undead creature whose Hit Dice exceed the result on this table. Notice TURN...not command/destroy. Destroying Undead: If you have twice as many levels (or more) as the undead have Hit Dice, you destroy any that you would normally turn. Notice it says YOU...not "what the modified result of your turn check" is. You are still limited by your turn check. Meaning if you are 4th lvl, but rolled a 1! with no charisma and get cleric-3, you could not turn or destroy a zombie that you could have otherwise. This is very concrete. Let's think about it for a second. Improved Turning +1 cleric lvls, phylactery of undead turning, +4 cleric levels, Glory domain, +2 turning check, Charm domain, +4 bonus to cha. Assuming 10th lvl cleric would already have a 22 cha. (and i'm keeping this simple, it can be more complicated) Gets a modified roll to give Cleric lvl +4 (not too hard given the massive +10 bonuse he'll have), can control/command a 19HD undead? BHAHAHAHAHHAHBHBAHAHAHAhAAHBHBHAHBHABHAH BA Heck, sign me up!! :rofl: -ToK
King Uther 07-05-05, 04:00 PM	I wonder how awkward the letter B in laughs would sound? Looking at the RAW, it cannot be possible for Ariel to command the ghoul. There is a certain degree of interpretation, but nonetheless if the Elders do not rule otherwise she just turned it for the moment.
Luni 07-05-05, 04:02 PM	Let's think about it for a second. Improved Turning +1 cleric lvls, phylactery of undead turning, +4 cleric levels, Glory domain, +2 turning check, Charm domain, +4 bonus to cha. Assuming 10th lvl cleric would already have a 22 cha. (and i'm keeping this simple, it can be more complicated) Gets a modified roll to give Cleric lvl +4 (not too hard given the massive +10 bonuse he'll have), can control/command a 19HD undead? BHAHAHAHAHHAHBHBAHAHAHAhAAHBHBHAHBHABHAH BA Heck, sign me up!! :rofl: -ToK Turning and rebuking are two different things. Bonuses to your turn check don't help out your rebuke attempts.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-05-05, 04:03 PM	I wonder how awkward the letter B in laughs would sound? Looking at the RAW, it cannot be possible for Ariel to command the ghoul. There is a certain degree of interpretation, but nonetheless if the Elders do not rule otherwise she just turned it for the moment. I have no problems having Ariel substituting the ghoul for two skele's. Without a re-fight, without any more pain and for simplicity. I woud accept saying "It was a 3 skele fight (CR 1 as the ghoul) and she commanded two, and beat up the last." That way she keeps the xp/gp and doesn't have to re-run it. That's my vote anyhow. -ToK
Tellish_of_Ket 07-05-05, 04:06 PM	Turning and rebuking are two different things. Bonuses to your turn check don't help out your rebuke attempts. true...ok, bad example with the glory domain but they would still get the +1d6 turning dmg. That roll stays the same wether your are turning or rebuking, but you know what i'm getting at. Without even trying, it's a +10 turn check. With a few credits (like +10 competence bonus to turn check holy symbol, etc...), i'll have a 19 hd undead VERY quickly with the above example. (or something similar) -ToK **EDIT: Using Cateresque rules, i can get myself a 20HD advanced Huge Air ele, CR 7 at 11th lvl and bring it into the ring. You can do the same with animals, and plants. Just look through, find the biggest meanest thing you can bring and get it.
Luni 07-05-05, 04:10 PM	Mr. Pitlords! Maybe you should add our nice discussion of Turn Undead to Allies and Cohorts section in the Rules. Just so we don't get any more problems about this. I agree with you, ToK. Though, couldn't you have waited one week so I could at least use my ghoul once! :D Now, what is the council's opinion on a Phylactery of Undead Rebuking?
Caterane 07-05-05, 04:20 PM	Will do. About our discussion about undead abilities again... I'm not sure if standard array (3*11, 3*10) is appropriate. Non-elite array (13,12,11,10,9,8) is much better; after all, you won't hunt the sick village fool. And that's what the human warrior skeleton uses too.
Caterane 07-05-05, 04:31 PM	:cheer: WELCOME MCJARVIS!! :cheer:
Zerone 07-05-05, 04:38 PM	@ McJarvis: Welcome to the CoCo! Good luck in your first fight! For some reason I am unable to send you pms, so hopefully you will see this. I noticed that Kon the Barbarian as a character error. Please look under the Character Violations thread for the error and how to fix it. Again, welcome! :D *•. Z
Purkake 07-05-05, 04:42 PM	So many new people :D will you have enough GMs?
xanadu 07-06-05, 12:17 AM	Wondering if I could make some slight adjustments on one of my gladiator NEcavi Omnes before he goes on a campaign. I had in mind for him to mini-quest for a new animal ally beofre going so I bought a circlet of persuasion and invested some skill points in handle animal. Alas, I edited him too late to get the mini-quest officially in and he got paired with a gladiator instead. Was wondering if I can get a refund on the circlet and re-invest the skill points. Also, Necavi has never used the recall agony power. I'm still a psionic nube and dont know why I took it in the first place. This request is a bit more sketchy, but people change feats so I figured I'd ask. In other news, I made a new gladiator (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6485159) ready for an ecl 4. He aint on the roster yet so I figure this was the place to announce her.
Iced 07-06-05, 01:11 AM	If you need a miniquest I'll run it for you...;)
McJarvis 07-06-05, 02:31 AM	@ McJarvis: For some reason I am unable to send you pms, so hopefully you will see this. *•. Z I fixed the problem. I was wondering why the other Char Op boys stopped PMing me a few months ago....^¿^
McJarvis 07-06-05, 02:59 AM	Oh yes, a few questions I had...(not sure where to post) If you have summon spells available to you, do you need to provide the stats for critters you intend to summon, or is it understood you just summon monster manual monsters straight up? Concerning the mysterious Arena that adapts to suit both players: Does this change affect spells such as call lightning?((Which will deal more damage if it is hot and cloudy, or rainy, or a host of other minor weather conditions))
Jindl 07-06-05, 03:04 AM	Oh yes, a few questions I had...(not sure where to post) If you have summon spells available to you, do you need to provide the stats for critters you intend to summon, or is it understood you just summon monster manual monsters straight up? Concerning the mysterious Arena that adapts to suit both players: Does this change affect spells such as call lightning?((Which will deal more damage if it is hot and cloudy, or rainy, or a host of other minor weather conditions)) Summoned monsters are straight from the MM, although it would be a courtesy to your pitlord to included stats in tactics. The arena provides a nuetral environment, which means that yes, call lightning acts like a normal day. A druid could cast sleet storm to create some stormy conditions, then cast call lightning to take advantage of the higher damage die, however...
KerlanRayne 07-06-05, 05:08 AM	With the new Power Stone pricing rules, are Mestapsionic feats counted as augmentation? Would an Extended Skate Power Stone at ML 3 and lasting 6 minutes cost 75 gp or 150 gp? KerlanRayne
KerlanRayne 07-06-05, 05:10 AM	Wondering if I could make some slight adjustments on one of my gladiator NEcavi Omnes before he goes on a campaign.In general, I you have never used a Feat, Spell, Power, Skill, Item, etc. before in a fight, you can change it to something else or get refund for full price. KerlanRayne
Pitlords 07-06-05, 05:43 AM	I had in mind for him to mini-quest for a new animal ally beofre going so I bought a circlet of persuasion and invested some skill points in handle animal. Alas, I edited him too late to get the mini-quest officially in and he got paired with a gladiator instead. Was wondering if I can get a refund on the circlet and re-invest the skill points. Also, Necavi has never used the recall agony power. I'm still a psionic nube and dont know why I took it in the first place. This request is a bit more sketchy, but people change feats so I figured I'd ask. The Recall Agony Power is no problem if you have never used it. I think that's meanwhile official. Of course, that needs to be announced. About the circlet and the skill points, you can still try to get the animal on the Campaign, and a circlet of persuation is much more useful in a Campaign than anywhere else. Tell Huan about your wish to get an animal; I'm sure he will work something out.
SoulLord 07-06-05, 11:44 AM	Asked this before but did not get a reply. If im using a wizard do I have to declare the spells im going to memorize for the week before I get paired? Or can I change my memorized spells and include them in the tactics sent for the week's battle?
Cerebus13 07-06-05, 11:51 AM	Asked this before but did not get a reply. If im using a wizard do I have to declare the spells im going to memorize for the week before I get paired? Or can I change my memorized spells and include them in the tactics sent for the week's battle?Have to declare spells on your character sheet before being paired. It is mentioned in the Quick Start guide I believe.
McJarvis 07-06-05, 11:52 AM	How do Psionics and Magic interact?
Cerebus13 07-06-05, 11:57 AM	How do Psionics and Magic interact?We use full Psionics-Magic Transparency, as described here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#psionicsMagicT ransparency). An additional houserule we added is that the skills Use Magic Device and Use Psionic Device are the same and can be used on magic or psionic items interchangeably.
Pittbull 07-06-05, 11:58 AM	How do Psionics and Magic interact? We use full transparency. Psionic Power=spell-like ability, UPD=UMD, ....
SoulLord 07-06-05, 12:30 PM	Have to declare spells on your character sheet before being paired. It is mentioned in the Quick Start guide I believe. Noted. It does not appear in the regular rules of gladius thread though. Perhaps it was changed by the elders?
Gonbow 07-06-05, 12:58 PM	Does the Psionic Shot feat function with unusual ranged attack forms? I.E: Spells, Spell Like Abilities, etc In particular, I'm wondering if it would function with the firebolts from the Pyrokineticist class or not.
McJarvis 07-06-05, 02:08 PM	Two things: Firstly: Does the True Ressurect effect of the nimbus happen immediately upon death? If it doesn't, this needs to happen, because True Ressurect the spell can not resurrect those who are currently undead. Wouldn't want someone animating their opponent and effectively taking the opponent out perminantly :) Secondly: If you go questing and die(thus not being able to be affected by the nimbus), couldn't one of your comrades(assuming you had any) just animate dead your corpse to a zombie, walk you back to the city, then destroy the zombie? True Ressurect works on undead that have been destroyed.
Luni 07-06-05, 03:27 PM	My new character Lady Tira (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6567197&postcount=315) is done finally. Could someone go through it and scan it for errors?
McJarvis 07-06-05, 03:30 PM	On inspiration, I just reworked Kon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6616749&postcount=331) and changed up his class progression completely. I like him much more now :) If someone could once him over, that'd be great. If not...oh well.
Sunwolf 07-06-05, 04:11 PM	On inspiration, I just reworked Kon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6616749&postcount=331) and changed up his class progression completely. I like him much more now :) If someone could once him over, that'd be great. If not...oh well. Not sure if you can prebuff the poison arrows since you have a chance of poisoning yourself. Also you should note that you have preread your scrolls w/ UMD under prebuffs -- your skill is high enough to take 10 on the check.
McJarvis 07-06-05, 04:19 PM	Not sure if you can prebuff the poison arrows since you have a chance of poisoning yourself. Also you should note that you have preread your scrolls w/ UMD under prebuffs -- your skill is high enough to take 10 on the check. *reading scrolls noted* Wearing gloves negates all chances of poisoning yourself. I'll make sure to note that. EDIT- Suddenly I can't find the rule concerning gloves I'm thinking of. Did I make it up, or is this a house rule one of my dm's made up? I started playing in 3.0, so this very well could be something that changed too.....sigh. DOUBLE EDIT- Speaking of which, the dmg specifically states poisons are always illegal, even if can be obtained. Are there any rules for being caught with poisons in Gladius?
Mind Rogue 07-06-05, 04:24 PM	I was going to create a new druid for this week (although I realize now that she will have to wait until next week. Anyhow, for my animal companion, I was going to have a dog, and was wondering if I had to pay for her from the equipment list or if I got her "free" because I'm a druid. If I do, what kind of dog (normal or riding) is the guard dog?
Sunwolf 07-06-05, 04:28 PM	My new character Lady Tira (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6567197&postcount=315) is done finally. Could someone go through it and scan it for errors? Quick run through: BAB/Grap +1/0 (+1BAB -1STR) You may want to highlight which spells that you have are that are evocation. Scroll costs have errors in both gold and xp -- check SoF,MM,shocking grasp,divine favor. I suggest you group your divine and arcane spells seperately -- especially since some spells could fall in either category. You spent 14 out of 12 wizard skill points.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-06-05, 04:46 PM	DOUBLE EDIT- Speaking of which, the dmg specifically states poisons are always illegal, even if can be obtained. Are there any rules for being caught with poisons in Gladius? Nope...poison here is a dime a dozen. -ToK
Shaken, not Stunned 07-06-05, 07:28 PM	Should we PM or E-mail tactics to the guy running the fight?
Pitlords 07-06-05, 07:31 PM	You can use either. Email addresses are in the 5th post of the Characters of Gladius thread. Tactics should be sent till saturday at the latest or the Pitlord runs it without tactics. The earlier you send it, the better.
Jh316 07-06-05, 08:58 PM	I'm a friend of Astrid's, so I'll ask for her. How do multi-character fights work? Should she trade tactics with her teammate first?
Salrantol 07-06-05, 09:15 PM	As the winningest player in team battle history (3-0, won every single 2 vs. 2 team battle held in Living Gladius thus far), I would say YES!
Tellish_of_Ket 07-06-05, 09:33 PM	oops, wrong thread
Jindl 07-07-05, 12:56 AM	I was going to create a new druid for this week (although I realize now that she will have to wait until next week. Anyhow, for my animal companion, I was going to have a dog, and was wondering if I had to pay for her from the equipment list or if I got her "free" because I'm a druid. If I do, what kind of dog (normal or riding) is the guard dog? Animal companions are free to acquire. Guard dog is not a valid choice (its either dog or riding dog). The guard dog described in the equipment section of the PHB is a normal dog trained in the guarding purpose. For an animal companion, I would recommend the riding dog or wolf (even if you don't plan to ride). -Jindl
Jh316 07-07-05, 02:25 AM	What non-Crawling tattoos cost 50 gp? I can't find any that have a target of you and don't have a range of personal.
McJarvis 07-07-05, 12:30 PM	Do multi-classing penalties apply to gold as well, or just xp?
King Uther 07-07-05, 12:41 PM	Experience.
Pitlords 07-07-05, 01:25 PM	It applies to both Gold and Experience. Else XP penalties would be something desirable.
King Uther 07-07-05, 01:44 PM	I never thought of it like that. It does make sense, with a guaranteed gold system like Gladius has.
McJarvis 07-07-05, 03:22 PM	It applies to both Gold and Experience. Else XP penalties would be something desirable. And I got all excited for nothing.
McJarvis 07-07-05, 03:30 PM	Because I know you'd feel left out if someone didn't welcome you. :cheer: WELCOME Ned Da Destroyer!!! :cheer: It's good to have a friend in here :) And because I know you were afraid of someone saying it. We don't like psionic chars here. I kid :) Welcome in bro.
McJarvis 07-07-05, 03:35 PM	Oh- Regarding double priced items(such as tatoo of chameleon), what all does that apply to? Would a powerstone of chameleon be regular priced? ALSO- I need more info on how transparancy works. If I take 5 ranks in spellcraft, it grants a +2 syn for use with scrolls for Use Magic Device. Does this translate to +2 syn with powerstones as well? If not, can I take 5 ranks in psicraft to get the +2 with powerstone on UMD checks?(instead of UPD checks) Furthermore: does the feat psicraft give an additional +2 to Umd as well as upd?
Jh316 07-07-05, 04:59 PM	Regarding the XP penalty thing, you could just craft magic armor and weapons, then sell them back for half of market price.
Deadly Assassin 07-07-05, 05:41 PM	Would anyone be willing to go over my half giant, dwarf and drow for errors? There are links to them in my sig. They are Ormos, Diego and Zeke, respectively.
McJarvis 07-07-05, 07:49 PM	Regarding the XP penalty thing, you could just craft magic armor and weapons, then sell them back for half of market price. ...so when you craft, you just lose xp?(and half the gold required to buy the item of course)
Jh316 07-07-05, 07:58 PM	Crafting magical items makes you lose 1/25 of the base cost in XP, I think. So yeah, you'd be losing XP with no loss in gold.
Pitlords 07-07-05, 08:33 PM	@all Campaigners: Please write the name of the character into the headline in every post; same for the Campaignlord if a single person is talking. Additionally, the CL should write the location into the headline where the party is atm. That makes it easier to follow.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-07-05, 08:41 PM	Crafting magical items makes you lose 1/25 of the base cost in XP, I think. So yeah, you'd be losing XP with no loss in gold. That would be VERY long and monotonous. Let's assume in your example someone wants to stay at their current lvl. You take a week off to craft bracers of armor +1 and sell it back. You lose 40 xp. Lets say you were 4000xp above what you needed. You could do this 100 weeks in a row and be right back at a base lvl 9 (cuz you can't lose a level crafting). Ok, so you take three more fights at level 9 making (cuz 4 and you would level, so you only fight 3 times), 2400x3=7200xp. So now you craft 180 weeks to stay at level 9 just to retain a gold advantage over your opponent? Forgive me if i fail to understand how after almost FIVE FRIGGIN' GOD FORSAKEN YEARS you continue this to retain a gold advantage over your opponents?!?!?!? LOL LOL In the meanwhile, LivGlad has a few new champions and resets to accomodate something or other as the changing times and ur still at lvl 9, OWNING them....? :( :( LOL -ToK
McJarvis 07-07-05, 08:47 PM	That would be VERY long and monotonous. Let's assume in your example someone wants to stay at their current lvl. You take a week off to craft bracers of armor +1 and sell it back. You lose 40 xp. Lets say you were 4000xp above what you needed. You could do this 100 weeks in a row and be right back at a base lvl 9 (cuz you can't lose a level crafting). Ok, so you take three more fights at level 9 making (cuz 4 and you would level, so you only fight 3 times), 2400x3=7200xp. So now you craft 180 weeks to stay at level 9 just to retain a gold advantage over your opponent? Forgive me if i fail to understand how after almost FIVE FRIGGIN' GOD FORSAKEN YEARS you continue this to retain a gold advantage over your opponents?!?!?!? LOL LOL In the meanwhile, LivGlad has a few new champions and resets to accomodate something or other as the changing times and ur still at lvl 9, OWNING them....? :( :( LOL -ToK Sounds a bit odd, but there are spells which can be used to quickly loose xp too. If anyone ever got up high enough to cast Wish? :-O.(Forgive my looking at 9th level spells first, I AM used to dealing with level 20 builds :) ) EDIT- At the very least, the point is that xp loss is a _good_ thing in this environment. If xploss=gold loss for multiclassing, then it should for xp component spells at least: crafting probably isn't abusable.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-07-05, 09:00 PM	Sounds a bit odd, but there are spells which can be used to quickly loose xp too. If anyone ever got up high enough to cast Wish? :-O. EDIT- At the very least, the point is that xp loss is a _good_ thing in this environment. If xploss=gold loss for multiclassing, then it should for xp component spells at least: crafting probably isn't abusable. The point is, you don't advance lvls. Oh, you'll be king of the jungle at whatever level you decide to pander at, but eventually you will want to gain. But you'll be so far behind those that are in front of you, it may not be worth it. You'd have to do some serious math (calculus to be exact for maximization) about how often you wish to lose exp, to gain gold, that would minimally impede your level progression. Nice idea, but too much brain work. -ToK
Caterane 07-07-05, 09:08 PM	Tok is right; it's not worth it. If it would - or if something abusable pops up - be assured that we'll remove it.
Deadly Assassin 07-07-05, 09:14 PM	:doh: OOOWWWEEE! :tantrum: Stop talking about calculus...it's making my head hurt... plus, its break...I don't want to have to think about math, :gah: which I don't have to take this year, w00t!
McJarvis 07-07-05, 09:51 PM	:doh: OOOWWWEEE! :tantrum: Stop talking about calculus...it's making my head hurt... plus, its break...I don't want to have to think about math, :gah: which I don't have to take this year, w00t! Sorry bro, Math major here...it follows me everywhere I go :) PS- I'm not really looking for loopholes in the rules to exploit: just exploring my options. Sorry if it looks like I'm trying to take advantage of a "system"((friend just pointed out I might want to say something to this effect))
Jh316 07-07-05, 09:54 PM	Y'know, McJarvis, Kon scares Fasin. He scares Fasin very badly.
McJarvis 07-07-05, 10:19 PM	Y'know, McJarvis, Kon scares Fasin. He scares Fasin very badly. Haha! Unfortunately I made some grevious errors on him(venerable physical stats not cumulative as he is now, forgetting I wanted concentration and tumble as skills instead of the accounting skills). I'm going to have to scrap him and start over, unless I can just change him. I know I can't run him with a stinkin 4 str, at the very least. The good news is I figured this out before the second round of action :D.
Jh316 07-07-05, 10:28 PM	Sorry, I was thinking of the wrong one. It's Alfred that scares Fasin badly. Basically the only advantage I'd have over him in a fight is my higher AC. Although I'll be fourth level after this fight, for the time being he even effectively has more HP than Fasin. Though I am curious as to how he has 2d6+3 instead of 2d6+2.
McJarvis 07-07-05, 10:55 PM	Sorry, I was thinking of the wrong one. It's Alfred that scares Fasin badly. Basically the only advantage I'd have over him in a fight is my higher AC. Although I'll be fourth level after this fight, for the time being he even effectively has more HP than Fasin. Though I am curious as to how he has 2d6+3 instead of 2d6+2. That would be a grevious error on my part :)[EDIT- Nevermind, it's a 2d6+3 because +2(str)+1.5*2(two handed weapon)] And yeah, I thought diehard was a nice touch. EDIT- Does anyone even get the joke behind Alfred's character? I guess Alfred Packer is an obscure enough figure in history...
McJarvis 07-08-05, 12:29 AM	On the subject of Alfred Packer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6621338) .. After this weeks battle is done, can I swap out the ranks I put in disguise for ranks in Knowledge(Geography)? I originally thought I was gonna be turning him into an Assassin eventually, but now that I think about it I'd rather him go for Horizon Walker. I don't think this change is major at all(I'm not planning on using disguise ever, and he has only been in the arena once(or rather, will be in the arena once)) If not, that's fine..I think I may be able to squeeze out skills in the coming levels...I'd just prefere my char not have 6 ranks thrown into a skill I'm never gonna use, even for a prereq.
LLMadCow 07-08-05, 03:06 AM	EDIT- Does anyone even get the joke behind Alfred's character? I guess Alfred Packer is an obscure enough figure in history... Are you referring to Alferd Packer (notice the spelling), the only convicted cannibal in American history? If so, I am assuming you also took the time to give him a horse named Liane and equip him with a handaxe, right?
Begferdeth 07-08-05, 04:07 AM	Hi! Ive been poking around the boards for a bit, and thought I would give this coliseum thing a try. Looks kinda fun :) Oh, and if anybody wants to have a look at Ch'Ch'Ili for stuff I messed up on, go ahead... Im sure I broke a rule in there somewhere.
Vathelokai 07-08-05, 04:21 AM	I've decided to give this CoCo thing a shot. I have a question... The item creation feat craft construct. It's not in the SRD under feats, but it is under the monster(golem) section. Will I be able to take it?
Caterane 07-08-05, 04:48 AM	Great! Two new faces! @Begferdeth: your PC is on the roster. Hp = 6+3.5 = 9.5. Bab: only bab here; nothing else Grp: you get a -4 size penaly, not a +1 size bonus Scent is no feat but a racial quality You have 12 bolts only? Psi-like ability: cold ray - add the DC and ML @Vathelokai: you can take that feat. But golems are very expensive; better wait till you're higher in level.
LLMadCow 07-08-05, 04:50 AM	Hi! Ive been poking around the boards for a bit, and thought I would give this coliseum thing a try. Looks kinda fun :) Oh, and if anybody wants to have a look at Ch'Ch'Ili for stuff I messed up on, go ahead... Im sure I broke a rule in there somewhere. Welcome to Gladius Quick changes: WIS...8 [-1]...(2 pts) [-2 racial] - You forgot to subtract the -2 racial on your sheet. Touch 14 - (I think it should only be +3 Dex and +1 Size. Confirm with the gang.) BAB/Grap: +1/-4 [+1 bab, -1 str, -4 size] - Small Creatures get a -4 grapple penalty applied. Masterwork Heavy Crossbow, +5 ranged, 1d8 [19-20/x2] [120' range] - I recommend changing this from +6 to +5 and making a note that you get an additional +1 when within 30' of your enemy. Any further away and the bonus does not apply. You have 24 skill points listed and you only spent 23, but you should have 25. [(4 + Int) x 4] + [4 + Int] = 25. So, you have 2 more to spend. Also, the numbers on the right hand side of the skills do not seem to match up correctly to all the skills. Int 12 grants 1 extra language, abov and beyond common. I am going to sleep, so some one else will have to check on the math for your shopping expenses. Everything else is looking good so far. I hope you enjoy the arena and have many wins! LL
Vathelokai 07-08-05, 05:26 AM	Another question...Intellegent Items. I assume I can get one, since they are Core. If I got one at start with min. intellegence and the only power as bless 3/day (+2000gp), could I upgrade the item later? In the rules as written, I get the impression that once created an int. item is fixed with it's stats and abilities. Would the normal way of dealing with this be to sell the previous item to help pay for the new item, then roleplay that it was the same item? Also, I noticed a thread that was talking about using the craft skills to make money. How does this work?
Tellish_of_Ket 07-08-05, 06:58 AM	Another question...Intellegent Items. I assume I can get one, since they are Core. If I got one at start with min. intellegence and the only power as bless 3/day (+2000gp), could I upgrade the item later? In the rules as written, I get the impression that once created an int. item is fixed with it's stats and abilities. Would the normal way of dealing with this be to sell the previous item to help pay for the new item, then roleplay that it was the same item? Also, I noticed a thread that was talking about using the craft skills to make money. How does this work? Thus far intelligent items have not been introduced to LivGlad. Though there may be a future from them, as of yet, pc's cannot own intelligent items. Now if you run a quest or campaign, there isn't anything wrong with giving your BBEG one, just as long as the pc's don't end up with it. ;) -ToK
Caterane 07-08-05, 08:13 AM	I don't see a reason why Intelligent Items should be excluded. They were available in Classic CoCo (no one took them though) and so they're here. You have to pay credits of course which makes them rather rare, and 2000 gp for the power is not the only cost, see DMG. @Deadly Assassin: What do you have in mind for all those new inactive PCs? You have 6 PCs altogether now; yet not one of them is set ready.
Jindl 07-08-05, 10:36 AM	I don't see a reason why Intelligent Items should be excluded. They were available in Classic CoCo (no one took them though) and so they're here. You have to pay credits of course which makes them rather rare, and 2000 gp for the power is not the only cost, see DMG. No, they weren't available in classic CoCo, mainly because of the problems with creation (see below). When creating an intelligent magic item, the creator DOES NOT get to chose what ability scores or special powers the item possesses. That one fact made it impossible to just go get the exact intelligent item you want to own. Because you can't make the specific item you want, there is no certainty that it even exists. Allowing PC's to just go get an intelligent item exactly as they want, just for some credits, is a major deviation from core. And if it costs more than a few credits, then only a handful of players will ever be able to get one (and whats the point of that?) Pertaining to LG, I think we may be able to introduce intelligent items later, but we should be looking at them as allies, not as equipment. Keep in mind that the intelligent item can act completely independently of the PC. As allies, they should require a quest to obtain and be calculated into the CA for rewards (probably by coming up with some conversion of Ego -> CR). Obviously, this is something that needs to be proposed and approved by the Elders. -Jindl
McJarvis 07-08-05, 12:11 PM	Are you referring to Alferd Packer (notice the spelling), the only convicted cannibal in American history? If so, I am assuming you also took the time to give him a horse named Liane and equip him with a handaxe, right? He gets an animal companion next level :D. Didn't mean to spell the name wrong, but if I had a chance to redo it I wouldn't. I like the name Alfred better, and I think it gets the idea across as it is :)[I mean, he's a dwarf anyway...] As far as the handaxe, you're right. I'll make sure to label the greatsword as a "handaxe" with the stats of a greatsword.
McJarvis 07-08-05, 12:47 PM	e, and 2000 gp for the power is not the only cost, see DMG. Quite right. Intelligent items have to be of a perminant magical nature, so if you want an intelligent handaxe you can expect to put 2000gp more in it right away. In general, I've found Intelligent items(even when custom built) to be ungodly expensive for what you get. The prices for each individual power or intelligence rating seem reasonable, but as you go up in intelligence you are required to get a certain number of lesser/greater powers whether you want them or not. *If* intelligent items are allowed, whether Special purposes are allowable or not would be another thing to determine. There is no rule for determining "randomly" whether an item has one or not. Intelligent Items more or less are set up to be a gift from a dm rather then something to be aimed for in my opinion....
Caterane 07-08-05, 01:22 PM	Jind, Intelligent Items can use a handful of abilities and that's it. My familiar can do more. And as McJarvis said, they are insanly expensive for what they can do. 1/d dimension door for 50,000. Or a power, like haste 3/d for 16,000 plus base cost of about 9000+. Compare that to boots of haste. Or any ally (most allies cost nothing). And why shouldnt you be able to craft them? There are even examples with craft stats and prices given. Well, and about the Elder, I'd be glad if we could get the current issues done but there are almost no replies.
McJarvis 07-08-05, 01:28 PM	Not sure if this is an error or not- but under allowable templates Celestial and Fiendish say they are +1, but the SRD says +2. Is that house errata or an error?
McJarvis 07-08-05, 01:32 PM	And why shouldnt you be able to craft them? There are even examples with craft stats and prices given. Page 288 of the DMG states: "Item Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, and capabilities treated as additions to time, gp cost, and XP cost. The item's alignment is the same as its creator's. Determine other features randomly, following the guidelines in the relevant sections of this chapter." I can see how you could read this such that only the alignment is known at the start, and the costs/xp/time unfold as you craft and the randomness of it is determined. I'm not sure what "other features" you would be determining randomly. Honestly, I never interpretted it that way before reading what J said- I always read it "you can pick the int/wis/cha and abilites, and they scale the cost/craft time"
Caterane 07-08-05, 02:03 PM	If the randomness is the thing that bothers you, we can roll the powers, or let the QL/CL decide what he uses. I just don't want to ban Int.Items. They are a supercool addition, add roleplaying, and are surely no more powerful than their normal counterparts; quite the opposite.
McJarvis 07-08-05, 02:22 PM	They are a supercool addition, add roleplaying booyeah :) The only thing they could possibly be considered overpowered on is at higher levles they are a nice way to get a bunch of magical effects without taking up body slots.
Caterane 07-08-05, 02:26 PM	You mean like Waves of Exhaustion for 164,000 gp? Once per day.
McJarvis 07-08-05, 02:36 PM	My "optimized" intelligent item I made once was a set of fullplate which had the following: Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 10 Speech, Telepathy 120 ft darkvision and blindsense deathwatch continusously active item can use detect magic at will item can use faerie fire 3/day item detects opposing alignments at will item detects undead at will item can read all languages as well as use read magic The cost: magical +1 full plate: 2,650 base: +12,000 abilities: +21,800(1,100+2,700+3,600+7,200+7,200) total: 36,450gp In my game, I was a level 12 char- this was worth less then half my wealth. I felt the ability for an item to be intelligent, have a telepathic connection with me, be able to warn me if it detected anything out of the ordinary(I instructed it to detect magic, detect undead, detect opp alignment on a continual cycle), and faerie fire any invis/nondetectable opponents via it's blindsense was worth it. Because of the telepathy, I could more or less count the abilities of the armor as my own. At that level, however, Gladius members should have less gold then the typical dnd character(it seems we are richer until level 9, then start losing out)((source- wealth chart by level on pg 135 of dmg compared to xp table since xp=gold)). I don't know what the dynamics of gladius fights are like at that level-maybe intelligent items would be broken unless they were random. If not random, though, you could craft the above armor for how little? 18,225gp? Surely it's attainable by 9th level by an ambitious cleric. PS- I'm not really arguing they shouldn't be allowed or that they are broken, just making sure you know what they're capable of. The powerful nature of them isn't in huge abilities like being able to cast waves of exhaustion- it's in the little things that add up. Double PS- Don't forget that the armor itself activates these abilitites, so haste 3/day is really haste as a quickened action 3/day. Triple PS- I soooo want this armor for Alfred. :D
Caterane 07-08-05, 02:55 PM	Deathwatch is useless in the arena (crap! He has more than 2 hp!! lol) as is detect magic. Alignments are known and there are no undead other than Anna and you won't pinpoint her with Detect undead. The only useful things are blindsense paired with faery fire. This is a good counter to invisibility and stealth builds but you also payed 36k. The non-core blindsight spell is 3rd level and would be much cheaper (and blindSIGHT). And boots of haste can be activated as a free action too, lasts 10 rounds. 3/d is once per day in the arena.
McJarvis 07-08-05, 02:57 PM	Deathwatch is useless in the arena (crap! He has more than 2 hp!! lol) as is detect magic. Alignments are known and there are no undead other than Anna and you won't pinpoint her with Detect undead. The only useful things are blindsense paired with faery fire. This is a good counter to invisibility and stealth builds but you also payed 36k. The non-core blindsight spell is 3rd level and would be much cheaper (and blindSIGHT). And boots of haste can be activated as a free action too, lasts 10 rounds. 3/d is once per day in the arena. Yeh, this armor is alot more useful in real dnd, I'll admit. I wouldn't mind having it on the campaign trail...and you would be able to locate opponents with detect magic/oppalignment/undead, these are cone effects.((you could sense direction at least))
Caterane 07-08-05, 03:00 PM	Yes, cool item and that's exactly what I'm saying: these items while not overly powerful are damn cool. EDIT: Your armor reminds me of Diablo 2 *nostalgic* Only computer game I played
Deadly Assassin 07-08-05, 04:00 PM	What caster level potions can a Lvl 2 (ECL 3) character use?
Caterane 07-08-05, 04:03 PM	What caster level potions can a Lvl 2 (ECL 3) character use? Every potion printed specifically in the DMG. For custom potions or different CL than in the DMG, you have to pay 1°, see Blackmarket.
Deadly Assassin 07-08-05, 04:10 PM	Ok, kool. Thanks Cat. Hehe, I could make my monk awesome.
McJarvis 07-08-05, 04:47 PM	Yes, cool item and that's exactly what I'm saying: these items while not overly powerful are damn cool. EDIT: Your armor reminds me of Diablo 2 *nostalgic* Only computer game I played hah! I used to play that all the time. Made a killer Wind Druid(lvl 80 then I quit) btw: my earlier question regarding the CA of Celestials/Fiendish characters...it says +1 on the gladius FAQ, but they are listed as +2 in monster manual and SRD. That's a big difference. Typo or Errata?
Deadly Assassin 07-08-05, 05:49 PM	For the Assassin PrC, do I have to have the required ranks before taking the class, or can I have 7 ranks in the necessary skills and then take the class, bumping the skills up to the required 8 ranks?
Caterane 07-08-05, 06:04 PM	@Mc: That's a mistake in the FAQ. Will correct it. @DA: You have to pay first, then you get the ware ;)
Deadly Assassin 07-08-05, 06:07 PM	Ok, thanks. Just making sure.
Deadly Assassin 07-08-05, 06:57 PM	Just wondering, but how long does 1 round generally last?
McJarvis 07-08-05, 06:58 PM	Just wondering, but how long does 1 round generally last? 6 seconds
McJarvis 07-08-05, 10:07 PM	Son of Kon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6646868&postcount=337) is up and ready to be looked over. Kon himself has fatal errors that will prevent him from being a gladiator for very long.(specifically, his strength is really a 4...I miscalculated aging effects) Aside from that, there were some serious improvements to be made on the character concept. EDIT- Just to be sure, if I UMD a wizard scroll, does my armor count towards casting failure? I'm pretty sure it doesn't, but I need to be sure before I lose another week due to oversight.Nevermind, I just convinced myself that Arcane Failure does apply
Begferdeth 07-09-05, 12:19 AM	@ Caterane Hp 9.5... I just rounded down for now. Ill remember when I level up. Bab... I wasnt sure what all to put in here, the example sheet had in size and str and such, so I put in my ranged one too, since thats what Ill be using more often. Hopefully, anyways. Grp... Woops! Ill fix that... Scent... thought it was like a monster feat or something. Ill move it. 12 bolts... I was trying to keep under light weight, which is rough at 8 Str. But I forgot to buy more when I dropped the heavier armor! I have the 'bolt' powerstones for emergencies. 2d4 bolts +1 each. And if I manage to fire my crossbow that many times in a fight, somethings very odd. Energy Ray... fixed. It doesnt have a DC, its just straight up damage. It's ok to use PP on a racial ability? I wasnt really sure, but I thought it would be a good trick :) @LLMadCow Wis... woops again! Fixed now. Touch AC... forgot natural armor doesnt help there. But I get a +5 from the Elude Touch class ability, so its a 19. Masterwork Crossbow +6... I get +1 BAB, +1 size, +3 Dex, and +1 from the masterworking. So I think the +6 is right. Goes to +7 within 30'. Skills... I changed them around a bunch while making, I knew I got something wrong in there someplace! Fixed up now. Language... Haha! Now I can taunt you in multiple languages! :D Thanks for the help!
Vathelokai 07-09-05, 03:33 AM	Can you pick a starting age other then young adult? The craft(alchemy) skill says that you can't use the skill if you are not a spell caster. Can it be taken by a fighter just for the ranks (for later cross classing purposes)? Is it a cross class skill in that event?
NedTheDestroyer 07-09-05, 03:43 AM	Yea it should be fine to start out at an age older than young adult. Granted you need to get your stats right. But as long as you make your bonuses and penalties cumulative then you're fine. I mean look on the characters page. There are at least a couple middle aged characters.
NedTheDestroyer 07-09-05, 04:01 AM	The DMG makes a list of familiars available for tiny and smaller characters and i was wondering if it was possible to use familiars from this list. I was planning on making a small wizard and was curious about this option. Plus, they're just cool. How cool is a mouse familiar? lol ok just curious. Thanks.
Deadly Assassin 07-09-05, 05:20 AM	Hey guys, I'm open as a questlord if anyone wants to go on a quest. I'll take the first two requests.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-09-05, 10:21 AM	The DMG makes a list of familiars available for tiny and smaller characters and i was wondering if it was possible to use familiars from this list. I was planning on making a small wizard and was curious about this option. Plus, they're just cool. How cool is a mouse familiar? lol ok just curious. Thanks. You have to be tiny or smaller. Not just small.
Gonbow 07-09-05, 12:50 PM	As new characters have unlimited time for crafting/magic item creation, is it allowable to craft an item (if you meet the skill check requirements) and then have it enchanted at the normal cost for such? Thus the difference between buying a +1 mithril chainmail and crafting a masterwork mithril chainmail, then having it enchanted. The cost difference isn't huge unless your dealing with something like adamantine platemail, but every copper piece counts ;) Also, are Caltrops considered weapons, as far as Craft is concerned?
Tellish_of_Ket 07-09-05, 12:55 PM	As new characters have unlimited time for crafting/magic item creation, is it allowable to craft an item (if you meet the skill check requirements) and then have it enchanted at the normal cost for such? Thus the difference between buying a +1 mithril chainmail and crafting a masterwork mithril chainmail, then having it enchanted. The cost difference isn't huge unless your dealing with something like adamantine platemail, but every copper piece counts ;) Yes, you may pay the difference from what you crafted with the price of getting it enchanted. -ToK
McJarvis 07-09-05, 03:51 PM	I guess congrats goes out to Fasin for avoiding a fight with Alfred for a while. After your comment I was kinda hoping you'd lose and do a lvl 3 fight one more time... :)
Sindorin 07-09-05, 04:57 PM	@ anyone with five credits - Tellish_of_Ket has informed me that the pace of my campaign is too slow for him, and that he is dropping out. There is once again an opening. If you have enough credits, you may apply with an ECL 3-4 character. I have been urged not to let people have others pay for their credit cost, as this provokes the exact situation I am presented with - people who don't give a rat's ass about this campaign. @ Faded Fate campaigners: Despite reminders and urgings on the part of player and DM alike, ToK is right; it is going way too slow, and I am considering shutting it down because people are not posting enough and are not showing enough interest. Any feedback/applications with credits are appreciated. ~Sindorin
Tellish_of_Ket 07-09-05, 05:01 PM	please don't misunderstand me Sindorin. I enjoy you as a storyteller. But one or two posts a week is not NEARLY enough to get the job done (and i'm not talking about you). And i do give a "rat's ass" as you put it. I've just been waiting for two weeks for something to happen, and one-liners about a conversation that happened a week and a half ago isn't cutting it for me. My apolagies if you feel i've slighted you but it wasn't meant as anything personal to you. Hey, if i felt i could solo your campaign i would have attempted it. But my character simply does'nt have the skills. -ToK
Sindorin 07-09-05, 05:08 PM	please don't misunderstand me Sindorin. I enjoy you as a storyteller. But one or two posts a week is not NEARLY enough to get the job done (and i'm not talking about you). And i do give a "rat's ass" as you put it. I've just been waiting for two weeks for something to happen, and one-liners about a conversation that happened a week and a half ago isn't cutting it for me. My apolagies if you feel i've slighted you but it wasn't meant as anything personal to you. Hey, if i felt i could solo your campaign i would have attempted it. But my character simply does'nt have the skills. -ToK No, I wasn't talking about you in that part of it. You paid your credits yourself, and Krunch has been a valuable addition to the team (I don't think they'll be able to handle the first encounter that I am planning without Krunch). I was elated when you wanted to join my campaign! I'm talking about the other people who didn't have them and so it doesn't mean anything to them that they have the privelege of campaigning. I don't misunderstand you at all. You are exactly right, and it is your choice to leave the campaign. These guys need to get to posting more, and I am issuing an ultimatum - if they don't get to posting more often, they're going to get the boot. The big, leather one in my closet - but sadly, it won't affect them at all because most of them are not out any credits. I'm not sure if it is just the way I present the campaign, neutral characters, or people being busy in RL. I try not to lead the party by the nose, which happens all too often in games I play in. RL has been busy for me, too, so I could see why people might not be able to post so often. Cerebus just left on vacation, and he let me know ahead of time, so I don't hold this against him.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-09-05, 05:12 PM	Thanks. I just think, and this is my opinion only, that there may not be a whole lot of respect for the other people in a campaign or the campaign master with all the time and effort they put into it. I read some campaigns that sometimes run on 4+ posts daily. If people aren't commited to a campaign, please don't join. It just causes grief and aggravation for those that wanna enjoy it. If you know you are often busy with RL and can't post more than 1 or 2 a week, then submit a list of actions you would like your character to take so it can speed things up. I was really looking forward to this campaign, since it was my first, and maybe i set the expectations too high. Dunno. -ToK
Jh316 07-10-05, 02:31 AM	So, since the off-hand of a double weapon counts as a light weapon for two-weapon fighting, does it also count for weapon finesse? Because I'd like to make a two-weapon fighter that uses quarterstaffs and shillelagh to do 2d6/2d6 with +1 to attack and damage. Or, a nice 18 strength fighter with a Large club, weapon focus and specialization, that does +8 melee, 3d6+9 for 10 rounds with shillelagh. That'd be fun for a while.
McJarvis 07-10-05, 02:55 AM	So, since the off-hand of a double weapon counts as a light weapon for two-weapon fighting, does it also count for weapon finesse? . Double Weapons: You can use a double weapon to make an extra attack with the off-hand end of the weapon as if you were fighting with two weapons. The penalties apply as if the off-hand end of the weapon were a light weapon. It only mentions the penalties being applied as if it were light: not it actually being light in general. I'm not sure what this would really grant you anyway: the main part of it would still be affects by str, so you'll end up with +str to attack/dmg on first strike and +dex to attack, +str to dmg on second strike. Seems better to just use str all the time. The shil idea is neat, though..I'd never thought of that.((There are quite a few druid spells in relation to staffs that would be neat for this sort of character...I'm not sure how many of them are core or not though. Outside of gladius there is some real potential for a ton of flavour on this char...hope you don't mind if I steal the idea for a npc :) ))
Jh316 07-10-05, 03:04 AM	I worked it out, and with a Half-Giant with a Deepcrystal Huge Club and Shillelagh, at ECL 3 with full power attack and 20 strength, you can do 6d6+11 damage, which drops to 4d6+11 once you hit with the Deepcrystal effect once. You'll have an attack bonus of +7 if you're charging and have weapon focus in club. Change that to a d8 if you can convince them that a Greatclub works with Shil.
Salzorin 07-10-05, 03:05 AM	hmm... half-giant druid... wielding a large quarterstaff and using shillelagh would equate to 3d6 damage from both attacks of the quarterstaff....
McJarvis 07-10-05, 03:07 AM	I worked it out, and with a Half-Giant with a Deepcrystal Huge Club and Shillelagh, at ECL 3 with full power attack and 20 strength, you can do 6d6+11 damage, which drops to 4d6+11 once you hit with the Deepcrystal effect once. You'll have an attack bonus of +7 if you're charging and have weapon focus in club. Change that to a d8 if you can convince them that a Greatclub works with Shil. If you're making this a druid, that's very cool :) If not it's still cool, but using shil oil isn't quite as neat as having a half-giant druid and it still being optimized :) EDIT- Ned the Destroyer is right[referring to a chat conversation we had]. This place is awsome because it helps me remember how great and expansive core+srd really can be. Seems like every day I'm thinking of something new, without the need for my old "crutch" of optimization/cheese books.((Of course, I still appreciate those complete books...))
Jh316 07-10-05, 03:08 AM	I made an error, Power Attack with a two-handed weapon is doubled, not multipled by 1.5. So it's +12 or so.
King Uther 07-10-05, 03:27 AM	I'll have a Quest slot open for next pairing for anyone. PM me with story if interested.
NedTheDestroyer 07-10-05, 03:38 AM	@mcjarvis glad to see i'm helpful. I'm totally serious the next campaign i run ... total core. :D
LLMadCow 07-10-05, 04:37 AM	Change that to a d8 if you can convince them that a Greatclub works with Shil. This is not going to happen anytime soon, my good friend. I have gone round and round and round and round again with them on this very topic and every time, I am beat down and told and told that a Greatclub has Metal Spikes on it - Look at the picture in the PHB - and thus does not qualify for Shil.
Jh316 07-10-05, 04:40 AM	Eh? It doesn't say it has to be wooden. That's how I figure I can Shil a Deepcrystal club. Hm, nevermind, it can't be deepcrystal. It doesn't mention it in the description, but it says the target has to be oak.
Caterane 07-10-05, 06:55 AM	@all but especially Rim-Soulfang, Salzorin, Kattattack, and Tellish of Ket: You probably don't have an idea how much work and passion flows into inventing and fleshing out a campaign, with all the NPCs, the storyline, the maps, and much more. The only thing a Campaignlord is asking, the ONLY THING, is that you make at least one post a day, or about a weekly equivalent. That's not too much for what you get. It is really annoying to the CL if his carefully planned campaign fails due to lack of player interest, and we're not talking about a campaign that is running for months but one that has just started!! That is unacceptable. It's not like in an arena fight where you hurt yourself if you don't submit tactics. In Quests and Campaigns, you hurt other people, the CL and the other players. I try to be as blunt as possible: if you cannot maintain roleplaying a campaign, then stay away. Simply put. That's the first point of the Campaign FAQ. That's also why I came up with the one-time 5 credit cost. If you can pay your way in, you have at least shown a certain reliability and contribution to the coco. Since King Uther, Huan, and Sindorin took over the cost, the purpose of the credit cost is ineffective. So it'd probably be the best if we have the players pay for themselves from now on. Now, Rim-Soulfang, Kattattack, and Salzorin. You have signed up for that Campaign. You knew what it is so please participate. Tellish, to you I say, don't give up so easily. If the other 3 don't increase their rate until Sindorin's deadline, they will be booted and substituted. We can put the campaign on hold until then. I'm a bit disappointed by that, guys but it's not too late.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-10-05, 10:24 AM	Cat: c'mon man. I don't need to be lectured on the effort a CL puts into them. I even mentioned that in my top post, plus i did a lot of work on my campaign that i'm ready to start as soon as i get 5 people interested. And as far as my posting goes in Sindorin's campaign, i'm on here every day all day long and i post very often. In fact other than Sin's posts, i have the most posts in that campaign, and i'm always reviewing it when i have a few extra minutes. You're right though, i didn't think it was fair to Sin for me leaving just because of that, i feel bad, so i'll go back to it and make things work even if i have to wait. -ToK ps. my apolagies to Sin for having backed out through no fault of his own.
King Uther 07-10-05, 05:08 PM	Okay, I will not pay any more credits, unless it is someone I have CL or QL'd, and only in an emergency. @Campaigners Have fun. That's what this experience is all about. A mutual enjoyment of DnD. So get to enjoying it. Roleplay; kill things; do whatever makes you satisfied with a character.
Vathelokai 07-10-05, 06:40 PM	Can a starting character have permenancy cast on them? Would the xp cost come from the caster (for a bigger gp cost) or would it come from the recipient? I promise I'll get the character posted soon.
Pitlords 07-10-05, 06:47 PM	Can a starting character have permenancy cast on them? Would the xp cost come from the caster (for a bigger gp cost) or would it come from the recipient? I promise I'll get the character posted soon. Yes but it costs credits. One credit per caster level above your ECL. You start at 3, min.CL for permanency is 9 so it's 6 credits, plus whatever the spell you want to make permanent costs. Additionally, you have to afford it of course. See Blackmarket for details on what you can buy with credits. XP cost pays the caster. Pairings are on wednesday so if you finish your PC before that time you'll get paired. @Campaigners: Please write the name of your PC into the title line of every post. @Campaignlords: Please do the same in case of NPCs plus the location the PCs are at.
Vathelokai 07-10-05, 07:00 PM	are thrown weapons used in the arena retrieveable, specificly Javalins?
Caterane 07-10-05, 07:04 PM	are thrown weapons used in the arena retrieveable, specificly Javalins? Yes. They drop in the square where you aimed at it. Ammunition is retrievable with a 50% chance.
Jh316 07-10-05, 09:50 PM	Since an Assassin casts Poison as an arcane spell, is the save 10+1/2 CL+int bonus, or would it still be wisdom bonus like the description for the Divine spell says?
McJarvis 07-10-05, 09:53 PM	Since an Assassin casts Poison as an arcane spell, is the save 10+1/2 CL+int bonus, or would it still be wisdom bonus like the description for the Divine spell says? Since the spell dictates the type of save, it's 10+1/2CL+wis.
Deadly Assassin 07-10-05, 09:58 PM	Since an Assassin casts Poison as an arcane spell, is the save 10+1/2 CL+int bonus, or would it still be wisdom bonus like the description for the Divine spell says? Hmm...Another aspiring assassin...Nice...
McJarvis 07-10-05, 09:58 PM	This is kind of a high-level deal, but... Winning a fight for a high-level char(levels 10+) nets at least 5,800gp(or more). Incense of Meditation costs 4,900gp(could buy one a battle) and as a pre-buff makes ALL your spells maximized without level adjust. Given the guarunteed money-nature of gladious, this seems a bit off to me. You would never, in a real game of dnd, spend 4,900gp a DAY for this as a constant effect. Just seems downright wrong.
McJarvis 07-10-05, 10:03 PM	Also: the Candle of Invocation. Higher then the incense, but deadly as well...could grant lvl 9 spells very quickly.
Zerone 07-10-05, 10:05 PM	Do Psychic Warrior/Psions stack manifester levels? Or would it be something like this? Power Points = 2 Race +1 Psywar +2 Psion +2 bonus PP for highest class from high stat = 7? *•. Z
Jh316 07-10-05, 10:07 PM	Hmm...Another aspiring assassin...Nice... Yup! ^_^ Gonna make Sasha an assassin at either level 6 or level 8.
Vathelokai 07-10-05, 10:09 PM	Powerful Build (abridged): The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. Does the powerfull build ability apply to any other circumstances, such as more damage for a large monk or other natural weapons?
Cerebus13 07-10-05, 10:10 PM	Do Psychic Warrior/Psions stack manifester levels? Or would it be something like this? Power Points = 2 Race +1 Psywar +2 Psion +2 bonus PP for highest class from high stat = 7? *•. ZIn the SRD the feat Overchannel (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#overchannel) says this:Overchannel [Psionic] You burn your life force to strengthen your powers. Benefit While manifesting a power, you can increase your effective manifester level by one, but in so doing you take 1d8 points of damage. At 8th level, you can choose to increase your effective manifester level by two, but you take 3d8 points of damage. At 15th level, you can increase your effective manifester level by three, but you take 5d8 points of damage. The effective increase in manifester level increases the number of power points you can expend on a single power manifestation, as well as increasing all manifester level-dependent effects, such as range, duration, and overcoming power resistance. Normal Your manifester level is equal to your total levels in classes that manifest powers.The bolded part is the important thing to read.
Deadly Assassin 07-10-05, 10:28 PM	Does the powerfull build ability apply to any other circumstances, such as more damage for a large monk or other natural weapons? Lol, yes, it does. Check out my half-giant monk, Ormos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6530121&postcount=314).
Cerebus13 07-10-05, 10:31 PM	Does the powerfull build ability apply to any other circumstances, such as more damage for a large monk or other natural weapons?If you read the rules for Half-Giants carefully it does not appear that they are considered to have larger natural weapons. They have the option of wielding weapons one size category larger without penalty, but they are still considered to be Medium creatures and thus would do the same damage with their fists as a Human would.
Vathelokai 07-10-05, 10:52 PM	Does the half giant racial ability 'powerful build' apply to natural weapons? The most literal interpretation of the rules seems to say no. Deadly Assassin seems to have set the prescident that it does. It seems reasonable to me that 'powerful build' would apply, since it would only matter to monks who cannot go and buy a d12 weapon.
Deadly Assassin 07-10-05, 10:59 PM	Does the half giant racial ability 'powerful build' apply to natural weapons? The most literal interpretation of the rules seems to say no. Deadly Assassin seems to have set the prescident that it does. It seems reasonable to me that 'powerful build' would apply, since it would only matter to monks who cannot go and buy a d12 weapon. SRD: "A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons." I took this to mean that you would do damage for a large monk, and the couple people I've had look Ormos over haven't said other wise, so...I don't know.
Cerebus13 07-10-05, 11:00 PM	Reasonable or not, the rules are unfortunately pretty clear that Half-Giants are medium sized. They cannot choose to "wield a weapon one size larger" when it comes to their fists. If a monk wants to take advantage of this wield one of the monk weapons such as kama or nunchaku and you can still use the host of monk abilities with it. Edit:SRD: "A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons." I took this to mean that you would do damage for a large monk, and the couple people I've had look Ormos over haven't said other wise, so...I don't know.Effects in this case would refer to things such as Expansion or Magic Weapon, not a racial ability.
Deadly Assassin 07-10-05, 11:10 PM	Reasonable or not, the rules are unfortunately pretty clear that Half-Giants are medium sized. They cannot choose to "wield a weapon one size larger" when it comes to their fists. If a monk wants to take advantage of this wield one of the monk weapons such as kama or nunchaku and you can still use the host of monk abilities with it. They may not be able to choose to wield a fist, but it still counts as a manufactured weapon, so you should be able to deal damage as a large monk. Maybe a ruling by the elders is in order?
Vathelokai 07-10-05, 11:15 PM	I second that motion.
Jindl 07-10-05, 11:45 PM	It was already ruled on previously. A half-giant monk has medium sized fists. Unless you know of a way to surgically add the fists of a large creature?
Deadly Assassin 07-10-05, 11:49 PM	Ok, well that settles it then. Thanks Jindl.
Deadly Assassin 07-11-05, 06:40 AM	Jh316 is looking to go on a quest (EL 6) and is looking for a partner, preferably a cleric with an ECL 4 or 5. If no ECL 4/5 clerics are available, a wizard or sorcerer will do. PM me if you are interested.
LLMadCow 07-11-05, 09:51 AM	Do Psychic Warrior/Psions stack manifester levels? Or would it be something like this? Power Points = 2 Race +1 Psywar +2 Psion +2 bonus PP for highest class from high stat = 7? *•. Z Multiclass Psionic Characters If you have levels in more than one psionic class, you combine your power points from each class to make up your reserve. You can use these power points to manifest powers from any psionic class you have. While you maintain a single reserve of power points from your class, race, and feat selections, you are still limited by the manifester level you have achieved with each power you know. Take 2 individual classes, pool their resources (in this case power points) and you have a total! Example: 2 Psion / 2 Psychic Warrior, All Stats 14 2 Race + (6 Base Psion + 2 Bonus Psion) + (1 Base PsW + 2 Bonus PsW) = 13 PP LL
Zerone 07-11-05, 10:09 AM	Thanks everyone for the help on the psionics questions, I still don't know my way around psionics very well. :D *•. Z
Sunwolf 07-11-05, 10:24 AM	Take 2 individual classes, pool their resources (in this case power points) and you have a total! Example: 2 Psion / 2 Psychic Warrior, All Stats 14 2 Race + (6 Base Psion + 2 Bonus Psion) + (1 Base PsW + 2 Bonus PsW) = 13 PP LL I wasn't sure that bonus points stack like that: From SRD under Psionic Fist: Power Points/Day A Psionic Fist can manifest powers. His ability to manifest powers is limited by the power points he has available. His base daily allotment of power points is given on Table: The Psionic Fist. In addition, he receives bonus power points per day if he has a high Wisdom score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Power Points). His race may also provide bonus power points per day, as may certain feats and items. If a Psionic Fist has power points from a different class, those points are pooled together and usable to manifest powers from either class. Bonus power points from having a high ability score can be gained only for the character’s highest psionic class. Note bolded line. Does this only apply to PRCs, or only Psionic Fist? What about cerebromancer, or other multi-class psionic build? Also does it make sense to add ML levels from different psionic classes to get total ML level (maybe this adding only applies to overchannel)? IE does psywar 2/psion 1 have an ML of 3 or ML2 for psywar and ML1 for psion abilities? The first option seems to me like saying a wiz2/cleric1 has caster level 3 for all his spells -- which we know is not true. Psion and psywar have different lists like a wiz and cleric. It seems that we should have these issues clarified for Living Gladius. I know I am confused. We will start seeing characters with multiple psionic classes soon if we haven't already.
Cerebus13 07-11-05, 10:30 AM	Also does it make sense to add ML levels from different psionic classes to get total ML level (maybe this adding only applies to overchannel)? IE does psywar 2/psion 1 have an ML of 3 or ML2 for psywar and ML1 for psion abilities? The first option seems to me like saying a wiz2/cleric1 has caster level 3 for all his spells -- which we know is not true. Psion and psywar have different lists like a wiz and cleric.This particular rule is quoted within Overchannel in the section labelled "Normal", which means it is what applies when you don't have Overchannel. I am unsure about the bonus PPs from ability scores issue because there are no rules printed in a clear cut section of the SRD.
LLMadCow 07-11-05, 11:07 AM	I wasn't sure that bonus points stack like that: From SRD under Psionic Fist: Power Points/Day A Psionic Fist can manifest powers. His ability to manifest powers is limited by the power points he has available. His base daily allotment of power points is given on Table: The Psionic Fist. In addition, he receives bonus power points per day if he has a high Wisdom score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Power Points). His race may also provide bonus power points per day, as may certain feats and items. If a Psionic Fist has power points from a different class, those points are pooled together and usable to manifest powers from either class. Bonus power points from having a high ability score can be gained only for the character’s highest psionic class. Note bolded line. Does this only apply to PRCs, or only Psionic Fist? What about cerebromancer, or other multi-class psionic build? I have run into this as well; both the Psionic Fist and the War Mind have the same clause in them, and they are also the only PrCs that have their own pool of PPs. Since they both have the clause specificaly mentioned within their respective classes and this clause is found no where else, I think it is safe to say that no other class is bound by this rule. However to further back up the validity of my previous post, I offer up this: Power Point Reserve Psionic characters fuel their abilities through a pool, or reserve, of power points. Your power point reserve is equal to your base power points gained from your class, bonus power points from a high key ability score (see Abilities and Manifesters, below), and any additional bonus power points from sources such as your character race and feat selections. Multiclass Psionic Characters If you have levels in more than one psionic class, you combine your power points from each class to make up your reserve. You can use these power points to manifest powers from any psionic class you have. While you maintain a single reserve of power points from your class, race, and feat selections, you are still limited by the manifester level you have achieved with each power you know. ABILITIES AND MANIFESTERS The ability that your powers depend on -your key ability score as a manifester- is related to what psionic class (or classes) you have levels in: Intelligence (psion), Wisdom (psychic warrior), and Charisma (wilder). The modifier for this ability is referred to as your key ability modifier. The SRD/XPHB would not have gone to such an extent to say classes if it were not possible to add the bonus PP together? Also does it make sense to add ML levels from different psionic classes to get total ML level (maybe this adding only applies to overchannel)? IE does psywar 2/psion 1 have an ML of 3 or ML2 for psywar and ML1 for psion abilities? The first option seems to me like saying a wiz2/cleric1 has caster level 3 for all his spells -- which we know is not true. Psion and psywar have different lists like a wiz and cleric. It seems that we should have these issues clarified for Living Gladius. I know I am confused. We will start seeing characters with multiple psionic classes soon if we haven't already. The character in question may be considered a 3rd level manifester, however he has his abilities capped accordingly. The XPHB is clear on this. He can manifest PsW powers as an ML2 and Psion powers as an ML1; he can spend his PP however he wants, but the manner in which he manifests is determined by his actual individual levels. See above in Blue.
SoulLord 07-11-05, 12:51 PM	The rules of gladius say that you are brought back to life by true resurrection and that your equipment is restored. but what about permanent things like the Blindness spell or some permanent effects of some poisons? are these restored as well?
Tellish_of_Ket 07-11-05, 12:53 PM	The rules of gladius say that you are brought back to life by true resurrection and that your equipment is restored. but what about permanent things like the Blindness spell or some permanent effects of some poisons? are these restored as well? When the fight is over you are absolutely completely 100% restored to normal. -ToK
SoulLord 07-11-05, 01:59 PM	how about xp loss for losing a familiar? are they restored as well? If not then what differentiates between me using a permanent drain ability and an opponent killing my familiar?
Vathelokai 07-11-05, 04:33 PM	I have posted two characters in the "char. of Gladius" thread that need to be checked out. Their names are Denshi and Jodan Desho. Edit: Perhaps I have made a mistake. I could have sworn that new characters have to be inspected before they can be set "ready for (date)." Was I hallucinating? 2nd Edit: Found it. In the Advanced Rules:Credit System it mentions auditing characters. Auditing is not mentioned in the character creation section or the quickstart guide. I have a question about Jodan's XP. Since he has only 2 char. lvs what should his xp be?
King Uther 07-11-05, 05:47 PM	@Vathelokai The same xp as everyone else.
Deadly Assassin 07-11-05, 06:01 PM	Hey, Vathelokai, all that coding you have on your sheets can be fixed by replacing the "<" and ">" with "[" and "]" ;)
Deadly Assassin 07-11-05, 08:18 PM	How many credits would adding the natural lycanthropy template (weretiger) to a human druid cost?
Caterane 07-11-05, 08:34 PM	how about xp loss for losing a familiar? There are no ill effects in the arena that go beyodn a fight. Exception: dispelling permanent buffs. I have a question about Jodan's XP. Since he has only 2 char. lvs what should his xp be? He is a ECL 3 creature (2 HD +1 LA) so he is treated like any lvl 3 character. How many credits would adding the natural lycanthropy template (weretiger) to a human druid cost? 28°
Deadly Assassin 07-11-05, 09:23 PM	:eek: 28 credits? Just to add the natural lycanthropy template to a lvl 3 human druid? Damn...Looks like I won't be doing that for a while...
McJarvis 07-11-05, 09:34 PM	:eek: 28 credits? Just to add the natural lycanthropy template to a lvl 3 human druid? Damn...Looks like I won't be doing that for a while... "just" entails a +3 la plus getting at least 1 racial hit die(for a wererat): that's a level 7 critter(3 levels in druid?) If you want a weretiger it's 3la+6 racial hit die+3druid levels=12th level char. 12-3=9, and 9x4 creds per level is 36. Come to think of it, where did 28 come from? h'mm... EDIT- Nevermind, I think he counted it up for a level 1 druid. For a level 3 druid the cred cost is 36, I'm pretty sure. PS- In the rules FAQ in the example for how to apply the lycanthrope template it lists the werewolves animal hit dice as 1. They have 2 animal hit die. This should be changed prolly.
Jindl 07-11-05, 10:30 PM	I was reading the Ally section of the FAQ, and I saw a rule that I completely disagree with: Exception: Class allies Class allies are allies that come from a class feature, like a wizard's familiar, a druid or ranger animal companion, or a paladin warhorse. If a class feature specifically allows a certain cohort, then it is allowed to be used in the fight, even if the ECL or CR is higher than what the above calculations would allow. However, they still do count as allies that are brought into the fight so if you have reached or exceeded your maximum CA by using a class ally, you may not bring in any other non-class allies. So basically, what you're saying is that a paladin's warhorse, a wizards familiar, or a druid/rangers animal companion prevents any of these classes from enjoying the benefits of the allies that other classes enjoy? And your reasoning is that we should incorporate the CR of class feature allies into determining which allies the character can bring? That's a bunch of <insert slang of choice>! Class feature allies do not have a CR. Find me one example where the CR of an animal companion, wizards familiar, or paladin's special mount is given? All of these creatures had a CR before they became class allies. But no CR is given for them once they advance and become companions. They all have additional abilities, HD, or both. So why don't they have a CR given? The reason is simple. They have no CR because they are a part of their master's CR. If I were to design an encounter where the party of heroes faces an evil necromancer (lets call him Bruno) and his skeleton cloud giant, then I would grant the victorious heroes (those that survived, anyway) experience for defeating Bruno and experience for defeating the skeleton. But they would not get experience for defeating Bruno's familiar, Tommy the Imp, because that experience was already including in the experience for defeating Bruno. The same is true for druids with animal companions or paladins with special mounts. Since the CR for a class feature ally is included in the CR for the master, the Core rules indicate clearly that any class with a class feature ally is equally challenging as those classes without class feature allies. Granted, the arena environment is weighted more strongly towards some classes and away from others (like bards), but since LG includes campaigns and quests as well, using that as an argument against class feature allies should no longer carry any weight (a bard would be great in either a quest or campaign). By placing unfair restrictions like these, you are denying classes the use of an ability that per the Core Rules is deemed to be balanced against the abilities of other classes. And that is just wrong. Class feature allies have no CR and should not be included in any ally calculations involving CR, limiting allies, or adjusting rewards. -Jindl
Jh316 07-11-05, 10:40 PM	Agreed. Causing a Paladin to gain less XP because of his mount would be the same as having him gain less XP for using his spells or Smite Evl.
Jindl 07-11-05, 10:43 PM	Agreed. Causing a Paladin to gain less XP because of his mount would be the same as having him gain less XP for using his spells or Smite Evl. It's not just the rewards adjusting (and actually, they don't adjust for class feature allies now). What I'm ranting about is that paladins and other classes with class feature allies, are restricted in gaining cohorts or other allies. A barbarian can gain a cohort with a level 2 below his own. But a paladin is limited to a cohort with a level of 2 below his own, minus the CR of his special mount (which as stated, doesn't have a CR)? Why should classes with class feature allies be restricted in what allies they can use, when the classes they are considered to be an equal CR to, are not restricted? -Jindl
Huan 07-11-05, 10:45 PM	The Campaign "The Grand Hiests (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=448846)" will be starting soon... but it is not too late for anyone to jump on board! Two more slots are open, and if you are lvls 4-6, and of non-good AND non-lawful alignment, you are welcome. (Otherwise, these three will find themselves with more gold and less people to split it with. ;) ) I'm afraid it will have to be first come, first serve, though.. so PM me ASAP!
Zerone 07-11-05, 11:46 PM	If a character is not active for a week, can they train a trick to two different tamed animals? *•. Z
McJarvis 07-12-05, 01:04 AM	He came, he got man-handled, and he's retiring. He just thought he was stronger then he really was. Goodbye Kon the Barbarian. Helllloooo Son of Kon. :)
Gonbow 07-12-05, 01:07 AM	mutter, grumble Dang time limits grumble, mutter keeping my first fight from getting properly fixed... Ah well. At least someone stepped up to do the 2x2 fight so late. Four gladiators enter, two leave! And if I lose with both of my characters, one of them is so getting the big boot of restarting :P
SodaGuy 07-12-05, 03:27 AM	I'm having trouble making a bow for my character. Can anyone help me?
Pittbull 07-12-05, 03:32 AM	What kind of bow do you like to have?
SodaGuy 07-12-05, 03:35 AM	I dunno. I'm new to the game and haven't ever made a magic weapon. :( I guess just a composite masterwork longbow with any other bonuses I can give it.
Pittbull 07-12-05, 03:40 AM	OK just look to this equipment-page (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/equipment.htm) ,there you find the normal costs. If you have a high enough skill modifier in craft-bowmaking (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm) to take 10, then you need to pay only half the price. If you like to make a magic, psionic or deepcrystal bow, it's in this online-srd too.
SodaGuy 07-12-05, 03:45 AM	So, is a masterwork bow the highest bonus I can get?
Pittbull 07-12-05, 03:55 AM	You have 3000gp to build a ECL-3 guy. 2000gp for being magic, 400gp for the masterwork comp longbow and max +6 str costs 600gp. That makes 3000gp for a Comp Longbow +1 (+6str). ;)
SodaGuy 07-12-05, 04:30 AM	Anyone wanna give me tips on my character. http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6672616
Caterane 07-12-05, 06:58 AM	I was reading the Ally section of the FAQ, and I saw a rule that I completely disagree with: So basically, what you're saying is that a paladin's warhorse, a wizards familiar, or a druid/rangers animal companion prevents any of these classes from enjoying the benefits of the allies that other classes enjoy? And your reasoning is that we should incorporate the CR of class feature allies into determining which allies the character can bring? That's a bunch of <insert slang of choice>! Class feature allies do not have a CR. Find me one example where the CR of an animal companion, wizards familiar, or paladin's special mount is given? All of these creatures had a CR before they became class allies. But no CR is given for them once they advance and become companions. They all have additional abilities, HD, or both. So why don't they have a CR given? The reason is simple. They have no CR because they are a part of their master's CR. If I were to design an encounter where the party of heroes faces an evil necromancer (lets call him Bruno) and his skeleton cloud giant, then I would grant the victorious heroes (those that survived, anyway) experience for defeating Bruno and experience for defeating the skeleton. But they would not get experience for defeating Bruno's familiar, Tommy the Imp, because that experience was already including in the experience for defeating Bruno. The same is true for druids with animal companions or paladins with special mounts. Since the CR for a class feature ally is included in the CR for the master, the Core rules indicate clearly that any class with a class feature ally is equally challenging as those classes without class feature allies. Granted, the arena environment is weighted more strongly towards some classes and away from others (like bards), but since LG includes campaigns and quests as well, using that as an argument against class feature allies should no longer carry any weight (a bard would be great in either a quest or campaign). By placing unfair restrictions like these, you are denying classes the use of an ability that per the Core Rules is deemed to be balanced against the abilities of other classes. And that is just wrong. Class feature allies have no CR and should not be included in any ally calculations involving CR, limiting allies, or adjusting rewards. -Jindl The problem isn't a familiar, an animal companion, or a paladin mount. The problem is with the thrallherd and the planar cohort. The thrallherd even gaining 2 allies of ECL-1 and -2, both of who are very capable of winning a fight on their own. Now imagine this gladiator still having his full CA available. That is just too much. You are right that the CR is tailored into the CR of the character, and in case of familiars, mounts, etc this is no problem because they are explicitely described in and limited by the rules. The supposed limit on thralls is that the DM's intervention which we don't have here. You can create the perfectly fitting thrall and this is not what the core rules intend by making them class allies. I would be willing to exclude at least the paladin mount, and the animal companions from that rule, but not the other class allies. Familiars and Psicrystals are already considered CR --, see FAQ.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-12-05, 07:49 AM	A class ally can always be brought in the arena, regardless of it filling up your CA, or even surpassing it. It does count towards your CA though. Example: you (ECL 7) have an impr.familar (ECL 6). Normally not possible because maxCA is your ECL-2 (that's ECL 5) but since the familiar is a class ally, you can bring it in. Your CA is full now though so no additional allies. Not even a mouse. It's all in the FAQ. K, as Jindl said. If it's a class feature it shouldn't count towards your CA. You can make exception rules limiting this to the Thrallherd and Thaumaturgist's planar cohort ally only. Not regular shmoe's from the phb. Just my opinion. -ToK
Caterane 07-12-05, 07:59 AM	As I said, I would be ok with druid/ranger animal companions and paladin mounts but I want to point out again that their powers are very limited by the concrete definition in the rules, which is not the case for thralls, planar cohorts, and similar leadership-like class allies! A thrallherd 20, with a lvl 19 thrall and a lvl 18 thrall who still has his full Coefficient of Allies (CA) available (which is ECL-2 = 18!!) can definately NOT BE CONSIDERED balanced compared to what other classes get! And another word on class allies: even if they would all count against your CA, they do not suck XP or Gold. Another advantage of class allies over regular allies.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-12-05, 08:08 AM	I know about the thralldude and i agree. But why cap the wizard too? That's what you just told me in my above quote. A wizard who improves his familiar is screwed for allies. What about the paladin who gets a "special mount"? screwed too i bet. -ToK
Caterane 07-12-05, 08:18 AM	No he is not screwed. Familiars and Psicrystals did not count as allies even before Jindl complained. It does not matter if you take the Improved familiar or the Uber familiar feat. It does not count as an ally. But I am repeating myself: Familiars and Psicrystals are already considered CR --, see FAQ. A wizard who improves his familiar is screwed for allies. I would be willing to exclude at least the paladin mount and the animal companions from that rule... As I said, I would be ok with druid/ranger animal companions and paladin mounts... What about the paladin who gets a "special mount"? screwed too i bet. Ray, read my posts!! :weep:
Tellish_of_Ket 07-12-05, 09:18 AM	i did. ;) though you may not believe it. Perhaps you misspoke is all. Because you even replied that my wiz improved familiar still counted towards his/her CA. Now you're saying it isn't...fair enough. BTW, when i said a paladin's "special mount" i wasn't referring to the general special mount, but more like the pegasus, unicorn, dragon etc... -ToK
Vathelokai 07-12-05, 09:19 AM	Anyone wanna give me tips on my character. http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6672616 I notice you have favored enemy:human. Your alignment must be evil to have a sentient race as your favored enemy. Your composite longbow dosn't have the strength modifier listed. Assuming it is +0str it should cost 430gp[100base+300masterwork+30darkwood]. Each +1str costs 100gp and allows you to add that much of your strength damage to your arrows. Now your str mod is +1, but if you use potions or other buffs that might go up. Also, darkwood is considered masterwork, so it gives you a +1 to hit. Add that to your attacks. I recomend returning those smokesticks and using the leftover money to make the bow +2str. The darkwood buckler should cost 215gp. Since you already have a bow, don't bother with the sling. You won't have time to use them both. Overall, looks neat. I look forward to killing him.
Jh316 07-12-05, 09:23 AM	If he gets a composite bow he doesn't have enough strength to use, he gets -2 to attack.
bgt 07-12-05, 09:30 AM	I notice you have favored enemy:human. Your alignment must be evil to have a sentient race as your favored enemy. Isn't it that you must be evil to take your own race as a favored enemy? Even then, every DM I've met will wave this if you provide a reason for the favored enemy, like an elf ranger that hunts drow, or a half orc that seeks to avenge his human mother's kidnap and rape at the hands of an orc tribe.
Zerone 07-12-05, 09:30 AM	I notice you have favored enemy:human. Your alignment must be evil to have a sentient race as your favored enemy. Not true. Where did you see this? *•. Z Soda Guy, your character is looking good. Learning by experience is the best way to become better at something. After a few fights in the CoCo you'll see where it is you want your character to go. By the way, welcome to the CoCo! :D
Vathelokai 07-12-05, 09:32 AM	Oh yeah. Forgot about that. In my mind that character should always drink a str. potion first thing. But then the enfeblement spell or dispel would always take the bow out of commission. Hmmm. You're right, JH316. Stick with the +1 str. spend the 100 leftover gp on a potion. Favored enemy: I guess it is only against your own race. My bad.
Jindl 07-12-05, 09:32 AM	@Cat- I agree that the Thrallherd may need to be an exception. However, keep in mind that the Thrallherd cannot have a cohort, because his thrall ability already restricts against leadership. And being psions, they have very limited ability to gain other allies (no undead, no class feature allies except a weak psicrystal, etc), so the most you'll ever see from a Thral is his 2 thrallherds at very high levels. Compare that to what his cleric/thaumaturge opponent can bring (a planar cohort + several powerful undead + contingent summons), without giving up any caster levels, and its not quite so bad. Please go ahead and adjust the FAQ to say that class feature allies do NOT count in the CA equation. If the thrallherd gets out of control later, we can make adjustments then. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 07-12-05, 09:34 AM	Isn't it that you must be evil to take your own race as a favored enemy? Even then, every DM I've met will wave this if you provide a reason for the favored enemy, like an elf ranger that hunts drow, or a half orc that seeks to avenge his human mother's kidnap and rape at the hands of an orc tribe. No such rule. Your alignment has nothing to do with your favored enemy choice. In fact, it has NOTHING to do with hatred with that chosen enemy. It simply represents how well you know them and have studied them. You could actually revere them and wish to know so much about them, you study their every habit and every move. -ToK
Jindl 07-12-05, 09:35 AM	I notice you have favored enemy:human. Your alignment must be evil to have a sentient race as your favored enemy. Isn't it that you must be evil to take your own race as a favored enemy? Even then, every DM I've met will wave this if you provide a reason for the favored enemy, like an elf ranger that hunts drow, or a half orc that seeks to avenge his human mother's kidnap and rape at the hands of an orc tribe. In v3.0, you had to be evil to take your own race as a favored enemy. That restriction was lifted in v3.5. -Jindl
Zerone 07-12-05, 09:37 AM	No such rule. Your alignment has nothing to do with your favored enemy choice. In fact, it has NOTHING to do with hatred with that chosen enemy. It simply represents how well you know them and have studied them. You could actually revere them and wish to know so much about them, you study their every habit and every move. -ToK In v3.0, you had to be evil to take your own race as a favored enemy. That restriction was lifted in v3.5. -Jindl Wish my response was this good or my knowlegdge this great... :P ;)
bgt 07-12-05, 09:40 AM	In v3.0, you had to be evil to take your own race as a favored enemy. That restriction was lifted in v3.5. -Jindl Yeesh, I've never read the 3.0 PHB, or played in a 3.0 game. Wonder where I got that from...
SodaGuy 07-12-05, 09:41 AM	Aye, I'll make it a +1 bow. The darkwood is confusing me. Since I'm small, my stuff weighs half as much. And since it's darkwood it weighs another half as much. So I think the buckler would weigh 1.25lbs and cost 15(base)+100(master)+25(darkwood of it's original small weight). I have no idea how I got what I got before.
Jh316 07-12-05, 09:44 AM	Masterwork on armor is 150, not 100.
SodaGuy 07-12-05, 09:54 AM	So, is all my equipment good? 1100gp for a mithril shirt 190gp for a darkwood buckler 515 for a darkwood composite longbow +1 str 1000 for Bracer of armor +1 If I sell the smokesticks and thunderstone I have 177gp for a potion. Which do you recommend?
Zerone 07-12-05, 09:54 AM	Can a character under the Blur spell 'hide behind' it's 20% concealment? *•. Z
Jindl 07-12-05, 09:54 AM	Can a character under the Blur spell 'hide behind' it's 20% concealment? *•. Z No.
Jh316 07-12-05, 09:59 AM	So, is all my equipment good? 1100gp for a mithril shirt 190gp for a darkwood buckler 515 for a darkwood composite longbow +1 str 1000 for Bracer of armor +1 If I sell the smokesticks and thunderstone I have 177gp for a potion. Which do you recommend? The armor class bonus from the mithral shirt and the bracers of armor don't stack. Also, get a melee weapon. And your buckler can't be used to defend when using the bow. Also, I'm pretty sure you take a -1 penalty when wearing the buckler and using the bow. Nevermind, you have more than that which you didn't post.
Cerebus13 07-12-05, 10:01 AM	No.So Blur can't be used as a portable way to hide and perform sneak attacks/sniping? I think a few different fights have done this the wrong way then....
Jh316 07-12-05, 10:03 AM	Also, you don't have a racial bonus on your attacks with the longbow.
SodaGuy 07-12-05, 10:08 AM	The armor class bonus from the mithral shirt and the bracers of armor don't stack. Really? That's seems a little weird. Wouldn't two layers of protection make me... more protected? Also, I'm pretty sure you take a -1 penalty when wearing the buckler and using the bow. Grr, ok. Drop that. Now I have more money. What should I do? Can I give the shirt a +1? Mastework my sword, maybe?
Zerone 07-12-05, 10:08 AM	Can a character under the Blur spell 'hide behind' it's 20% concealment? No. Why not? All that is said in the PHB under Hide is that one needs cover or concealment. Blur grants concealment. And several fights have been moderated in this fashion... I need a reason/explaination before I agree to say no, one other than 'it's not fair/that's not how it works'. *•. Z
Jh316 07-12-05, 10:10 AM	It's just that they're both Armor bonuses, and bonuses of the same kind don't stack. You can make the mithral shirt +1 for the same price as the bracers, though, yeah.
SodaGuy 07-12-05, 10:12 AM	Also, you don't have a racial bonus on your attacks with the longbow. Oops, that was supposed to be size. It's just that they're both Armor bonuses, and bonuses of the same kind don't stack. You can make the mithral shirt +1 for the same price as the bracers, though, yeah. Ok, I'll do that. Jeez, you must have nothing to do, helping me and all. :rolleye2:
Jindl 07-12-05, 10:14 AM	Why not? All that is said in the PHB under Hide is that one needs cover or concealment. Blur grants concealment. And several fights have been moderated in this fashion... I need a reason/explaination before I agree to say no, one other than 'it's not fair/that's not how it works'. *•. Z "Because I said so" isn't a good enough reason, eh? Fair enough, then here's what I think. The hiding rules suggest that you must gain cover or concealment from something between you and your opponent. You hide behind cover. You use the concealment of a darkened room or an obscurring mist (because the darkness or the fog is between both characters). A blur effect is you giving concealment to yourself (similar to the cloak dance feat of the XPHB). There is nothing between your form and that of the creature trying to spot you. Since you are not gaining concealment from an intervening effect, I think it is against the spirit of the hiding rules. -Jindl
Jh316 07-12-05, 10:16 AM	I imagine it's similar to not being able to hide in your own shadow.
SodaGuy 07-12-05, 10:16 AM	"Because I said so" isn't a good enough reason, eh? Fair enough, then here's what I think. The hiding rules suggest that you must gain cover or concealment from something between you and your opponent. You hide behind cover. You use the concealment of a darkened room or an obscurring mist. A blur effect is you giving concealment to yourself (similar to the cloak dance feat of the XPHB). There is nothing between your form and that of the creature trying to spot you. Since you are not gaining concealment from an intervening effect, I think it is against the spirit of the hiding rules. -Jindl I'd like to see a guy try to hide out in the open. 'Hey what's that blurry guy doing?'
Jh316 07-12-05, 10:19 AM	Your longsword has +5 to attack. He gets +1 from his strength. You also have +0 grapple. +3 BAB, +1 Strength, -4 size.
Salzorin 07-12-05, 11:01 AM	Well, the way I had always interpreted it was that the blur effect gave you the ability to continue to mask yourself while visible, but that you couldn't begin a hide check while in plain sight... that's what feint checks to distract your opponent so you could rehide were for. (to be honest, that's about the only use I could ever find for that little stipulation in the feint rules) Anyway, with Jindl now saying that we're house-ruling not to allow it in the CoCo... that makes me glad that I never made my Rogue UMD/Hide build....
Gonbow 07-12-05, 11:07 AM	You cant use Blur to hide yourself? :eek: Both of my characters bought potions of blur for this express purpose! Before I made my characters I read over the battles from the week before and one of the pitlords suggested it for a rogue character so they are not 'auto-spotted'. (Which was erroneous anyways, as you have to be more than your Hide rank in feet away from new cover to be auto-spotted, anyone near a corner will never be autospotted unless they are trying to hide untrained.)
LLMadCow 07-12-05, 11:28 AM	"Because I said so" isn't a good enough reason, eh? Fair enough, then here's what I think. The hiding rules suggest that you must gain cover or concealment from something between you and your opponent. You hide behind cover. You use the concealment of a darkened room or an obscurring mist (because the darkness or the fog is between both characters). A blur effect is you giving concealment to yourself (similar to the cloak dance feat of the XPHB). There is nothing between your form and that of the creature trying to spot you. Since you are not gaining concealment from an intervening effect, I think it is against the spirit of the hiding rules. -Jindl I'll reply in the Elders thread by Midnight EST. Before house ruling this, I think we should vote on anything that is discussing the 'spirit' of the rules. LL
Zerone 07-12-05, 11:31 AM	"Because I said so" isn't a good enough reason, eh? Fair enough, then here's what I think. The hiding rules suggest that you must gain cover or concealment from something between you and your opponent. You hide behind cover. You use the concealment of a darkened room or an obscurring mist (because the darkness or the fog is between both characters). A blur effect is you giving concealment to yourself (similar to the cloak dance feat of the XPHB). There is nothing between your form and that of the creature trying to spot you. Since you are not gaining concealment from an intervening effect, I think it is against the spirit of the hiding rules. -Jindl Hmmm... I can see through smoke, I can see through glass. If the glass was inperfect, it would Blur my vision, making it harder to see. What is the difference between smoke and imperfect glass when using Spot? They both Blur/Obscure my vision, making me harder to spot and granting concealment. How then, can I not hide behind imperfect glass? How then, can I not hide behind a Blur spell? :confused: I believe you can hide behind a Blur spell. Comments? *•. Z
SoulLord 07-12-05, 11:58 AM	Look at this Cloak Dance [General] You are skilled at using optical tricks to make yourself seem to be where you are not. Prerequisites Hide 10 ranks, Perform (dance) 2 ranks. Benefit You can take a move action to obscure your exact position. Until your next turn, you have concealment. Alternatively, you can take a full-round action to entirely obscure your exact position. Until your next action, you have total concealment. here you are not even using magic to get concealment yet you can hide I imagine using blurr as the predator movie that unless someone is paying attention they manage to see the blurry image.
Pittbull 07-12-05, 12:10 PM	I think concealment helps to hide, regardless where it comes from.
Malither76 07-12-05, 12:46 PM	I have to agree with Jindl, you need concelment to hide but you still can't hide in plain sight, I think a level 13 ranger or a level 5roge/8assassin could do this because they can hide in plain sight
Zerone 07-12-05, 01:15 PM	I have to agree with Jindl, you need concelment to hide but you still can't hide in plain sight, I think a level 13 ranger or a level 5roge/8assassin could do this because they can hide in plain sight I agree with that train of thought, but where I get hung up is in how it is worded in the PHB and with what you wrote. Mainly, I am not in plain sight, as the Blur spell grants me concealment, just the same as smoke. The opponent gets a 20% miss chance because I am not only harder to see but 'not in plain sight'. Anyone with a PHB, the glossary in the back explains it well. I am not around my book now, else I'd type it up... Another point is that it is a magical effect and we cannot base it in 'real world' physics. *•. Z
Jh316 07-12-05, 01:20 PM	I don't think so. Like I said, I'd imagine hiding behind a Blur spell would be similar to hiding in your own shadow. And it's not like non-clear glass. You can see the person perfectly fine. It just says their outline is distorted and wavy.
Deadly Assassin 07-12-05, 01:38 PM	Sorry to interrupt this lively and entertaining debate, but would someone mind checking out my new character, Skez (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6612858&postcount=330)?
Malither76 07-12-05, 02:04 PM	concelment from the PHB, somthing that prevents the attacker from clearly seeing his or her target, concelment creates a chance that an otherwise successful attack misses. So with this I think I would now agree, any concelment prevents you from clearly being seen and thinking along those lines, its not so much you are actualy hiding for the purpose of say sneak attack you are hiding your attack well enough that it is unexpected and catches your opponent flat footed, so what I would say is that you can use blur to hide, although with nothing in the way granting cover you can still be seen, but if they don't beat your hide with a spot then they are still caught flat footed, So elder what say you, would this be a fair ruling??
Deadly Assassin 07-12-05, 05:08 PM	Ok, you can now check out the Sunderer of Doom and its wielder, Skez. I've edited Skez, just to let you know
Vathelokai 07-12-05, 05:40 PM	@Pitlords or appropriate party: I'm not trying to be critical, and I know you must have discussed this in the past, but how did this forum come to have it's current layout? The D&D (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8)page has a number of sub-forum 'folders' that help keep it organized. They also seem to have as many stickies as they want. Was the limits on CoCo placed by WotC or was it decided by the powers that be?
Caterane 07-12-05, 05:53 PM	@Cat- [...] Please go ahead and adjust the FAQ to say that class feature allies do NOT count in the CA equation. If the thrallherd gets out of control later, we can make adjustments then. -Jindl Not so fast Jindl. I'm not changing a rule just because you found something in the FAQ that you don't like. I appreciate that you express your concerns but I have already explained where I am coming from, and not for the first time. Infact, we had this discussion before and you've even used the same arguments which I remember to have answered (here). Familiars, Psicrystals, and Paladin/Ranger/Druid companions are okay in that they do not count against your CA. They have no CR of their own. Their effective power is limited by their concrete definition on what they can do. Thralls and Planar cohorts however do have a CR, and an ECL even. That makes it easily calculatable. They are not concretized and can basically be anything you need thus making them much more powerful on top of being powerful already because of their leadershipally-like nature. There can be no doubt that this will be unbalancing at higher levels if we make them free allies.
Shaken, not Stunned 07-12-05, 05:57 PM	Given the full psionic/magic transparency, can we make tattoos of spells?
Meek Head 07-12-05, 06:23 PM	What is the gp and xp cost to scribe a 1st level spell with a CL of 3?
Shaken, not Stunned 07-12-05, 06:43 PM	Without spending credits, you can't but an item at a level above the minimum required to cast it unless it is listed in one of the sources allowed (SRD and CORE books).
SoulLord 07-12-05, 06:47 PM	from the srd Scribe Scroll [Item Creation] Prerequisite Caster level 1st. Benefit You can create a scroll of any spell that you know. Scribing a scroll takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. The base price of a scroll is its spell level × its caster level × 25 gp. To scribe a scroll, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one-half of this base price. Any scroll that stores a spell with a costly material component or an XP cost also carries a commensurate cost. In addition to the costs derived from the base price, you must expend the material component or pay the XP when scribing the scroll. so spell level = 1 caster level = 3 3*1*25=75 /25 = 3 xp
Jindl 07-12-05, 06:53 PM	Not so fast Jindl. I'm not changing a rule just because you found something in the FAQ that you don't like. I appreciate that you express your concerns but I have already explained where I am coming from, and not for the first time. Infact, we had this discussion before and you've even used the same arguments which I remember to have answered (here). Familiars, Psicrystals, and Paladin/Ranger/Druid companions are okay in that they do not count against your CA. They have no CR of their own. Their effective power is limited by their concrete definition on what they can do. Thralls and Planar cohorts however do have a CR, and an ECL even. That makes it easily calculatable. They are not concretized and can basically be anything you need thus making them much more powerful on top of being powerful already because of their leadershipally-like nature. There can be no doubt that this will be unbalancing at higher levels if we make them free allies. Then please change the FAQ to reflect that the only class feature allies that are included in CA calculations are Thralls and Planar Cohorts. -Jindl
Erithmu 07-12-05, 07:10 PM	I want to verify something that is semi confusing to me and make sure i'm reading this correctly. If a character crafts LESS THAN 1000gp of gear in a week, they are considered inactive and do not count toward the two char per week being active. True or False. If False please clarify. If a character were to craft more than 1000gp then they are considered active and would go toward the two character per week active limit.
Jindl 07-12-05, 07:21 PM	I want to verify something that is semi confusing to me and make sure i'm reading this correctly. If a character crafts LESS THAN 1000gp of gear in a week, they are considered inactive and do not count toward the two char per week being active. True or False. If False please clarify. If a character were to craft more than 1000gp then they are considered active and would go toward the two character per week active limit. Correct on both counts. You can also combine fighting in the arena with crafting less than 1000 gp in a week. -Jindl
Caterane 07-12-05, 07:30 PM	I'll do it later. Are there any class allies we've left out?
Erithmu 07-12-05, 07:39 PM	Does this include both mundane and magical? ie a wizard crafts 7 scrolls totaling under 1000gp and still engage in arena fight Addendum: 1000gp based off market value or materials spend for the crafter? Correct on both counts. You can also combine fighting in the arena with crafting less than 1000 gp in a week. -Jindl
Jindl 07-12-05, 07:47 PM	I'll do it later. Are there any class allies we've left out? It's easier to say that the only class allies that are considered in CA calculations are Thralls and Planar Cohorts. They are the only ones with their own CR's and ECL's. The other class allies are: druid/ranger animal companion paladin special mount (including DMG variant mounts) sorceror/wizard familiar (including improved familiars) psicrystal blackguard fiendish servant and undead companion shadowdancer shadow companion All of them have additional abilities as class allies, and lack CR's. -Jindl
Jindl 07-12-05, 07:48 PM	Does this include both mundane and magical? ie a wizard crafts 7 scrolls totaling under 1000gp and still engage in arena fight Addendum: 1000gp based off market value or materials spend for the crafter? Yes mundane and magical. 1000gp market value.
Caterane 07-12-05, 07:51 PM	Muchos Gracias Jindl (hope I haven't just said anything offending LOL my spanish sucks)
Zerone 07-12-05, 08:41 PM	Concerning Concealment: Concealment: Something that prevents an attacker from cearly seeing his or her target. Concealment creates a chance that an otherwise successful attack misses (a miss chance). You need cover or concealment in order to atempt a Hide check. Concealment and Hide Checks: You can use concealment to make a Hide Check. Without concealment, you usually need cover to make a Hide Check. The subject's outline appears blurred, shifting and wavering. This distortion grants the subject 20% concealment. Typically, concealment is provided by fog, smoke, a shadowy area, darkness, tall grass, foliage, or magical effects that make it difficult to pinpoint a target's location. Cat, Jindl, & ToK... Please explain to me, within the rules, how I cannot use Blur to Hide? *•. Z
Jh316 07-12-05, 08:44 PM	As described, I don't see how blur can truly be considerd concealment. You can see your target perfectly clearly with no distortion, except for his outline. It just doesn't sound to me like it by itself can provide the kind of concealment needed for Hide. I think it should just say it gives a miss chance like Blink does instead of concealment.
Gonbow 07-12-05, 08:52 PM	Except for the fact that there are not 'kinds' of concealment. There are degrees. Blur gives you one-half concealment (20% miss chance), which is equivalent to the Darkness spell. Are you going to say that we cant hide with the Darkness spell next? How about mist, because it's 'transparent'? The game mechanics do not have any difference between sources of concealment, except insofar as they stack, and what negates them. Hide isn't picky. Any rulings to the contrary are not Core or RAW. Keep that in mind when you make your decisions.
Zerone 07-12-05, 08:55 PM	As described, I don't see how blur can truly be considerd concealment. You can see your target perfectly clearly with no distortion, except for his outline. It just doesn't sound to me like it by itself can provide the kind of concealment needed for Hide. Well, it is in the spell description...? And if that wasn't enough (thanks for your post, by the way) I looked something else up and now I've one more thing to add... :D I have added this into the post above for simplicities sake... Typically, concealment is provided by fog, smoke, a shadowy area, darkness, tall grass, foliage, or magical effects that make it difficult to pinpoint a target's location.
SoulLord 07-12-05, 08:57 PM	I know hiding characters are a lot of trouble for the pitlords but as for the core rules as written Blur does grant the posibility to hide. I'm thinking predator effect.
Jh316 07-12-05, 09:02 PM	No, it's not predator effect. Predator effect would be invisibility. Blur is having an outline that looks shimmery and waery like the air over a fire. "The subject’s outline appears blurred, shifting and wavering." It seems to me that the difference between the mist and darkness example is that those are area effects, while Blur is effecting one target who you're still able to see plainly.
Jh316 07-12-05, 09:11 PM	By the way, how can hiding using Darkness work? It's a shadowy area. Wouldn't you need Hide in Plain Sight to hide in the shadows?
Malither76 07-12-05, 09:12 PM	I agree, you don't have any trouble seeing the opponent, the effect would let you if anything hide your attack, able to attack when the opponent doesn't expect it, if he can't beat your hide check with a spot, same thing with cloak dance, it says that it lets you hide although you are hiding were your at in plain sight, this still lets you get a sneak attack after all is done b/c you attacked from a hidden position, you guys are trying to argue over the flavor text of the spell, the RAW effects are concelment granting 20% miss and the ability to hide
Jh316 07-12-05, 09:21 PM	Maybe it could work with a penalty to the Hide roll, but I really think you're overestimating the power of Blur. It gives you a 20% miss chance because it's a little more difficult to determine where the character's outline is. It won't let you hide your attacks very easily, because although you might not know where exactly their outline ends, you can still see they're about to stab you plainly. And I can't comment on Cloak Dance, because I can't find it in the SRD.
Salzorin 07-12-05, 09:35 PM	... it blurs your shape to the point where opponents have a 1 out of 5 chance of missing you... that's a LOT of bluring, not just a little...
Gonbow 07-12-05, 10:03 PM	Hide in plain sight means you can begin to hide while being observed, under X condition, and have cover/concealment. Hiding normally lets you hide whenever you are not being observed, and have some form of cover/concealment. The difference? I'm standing next to Joe. I'm half invisible due to X concealment affect. Joe knows I'm there, I cant hide unless I make Joe look elsewhere, or fix it so Joe doesn't know where I am. (real invisibility, increasing concealment/cover to full, etc) I'm standing next to Joe. I can hide in plain sight. I am half invisible due to X concealment affect. Even though Joe knows I'm there, I can still hide because I'm that damn good, and he will no longer know WHERE I am. I'm standing in a corner, Joe is around the corner. I have no concealment or concealment within range of me. When Joe comes around the corner, he will see me. I'm standing in a corner, Joe is around the corner. I am half invisible due to X concealment affect. When Joe comes around the corner, he MIGHT see me, depending on how good I am at hiding. If I do something that gives my cover away, he will see me. X concealment affect can be... Anything that gives you concealment! Gosh. Amazing. Concealment doesn't do you any good if the person can see you before you can hide. That is what you need Hide in Plain sight for (Or really really high Hide rank, as cover within Hide Rank feet of you can be 'dashed' to before the person sees you. Or something like that). If the person doesn't know where you are in the first place, you still need concealment for that slight 'he might not see me' chance that lets you use hide. Of course... all this is not in the spirit of the rules, so the arguement is pointless. Anyone who wants to be stealthy in the arena will have go one-shot, or spend credits to get a pebble with darkness on it, judging by the way the elder voting is going.
Salzorin 07-12-05, 10:39 PM	I'm standing next to Joe. I'm half invisible due to X concealment affect. Joe knows I'm there, I cant hide unless I make Joe look elsewhere, or fix it so Joe doesn't know where I am. (real invisibility, increasing concealment/cover to full, etc) Just to point out... there's a rule written in the Feint skill description just for this sort of situation... which will become useless if we were to get rid of being able to remain hidden with blur if you come into sight.
SoulLord 07-12-05, 11:09 PM	I'm seeing three scenarios from this discussion 1.-you can hide in the blurr spell even while being observed (my vote goes here) 2.-you can hide in the blurr spell as long as you were not spotted previously 3.-you cant hide at all in the blurr spell The way I see it if you manage to hide sucessfully in the blurr you efectively break Line of Sight.
Meek Head 07-12-05, 11:10 PM	Does having 5 ranks in Decipher Script help when a wizard activates a scroll with a higher CL than their own? Example: Level 1 wizard wants to activate his scroll of invisibility, CL 3. Does he get the +2 synergy from 5 ranks in Decipher Script to his CL check?
Gonbow 07-12-05, 11:13 PM	I'm seeing three scenarios from this discussion 1.-you can hide in the blurr spell even while being observed (my vote goes here) 2.-you can hide in the blurr spell as long as you were not spotted previously 3.-you cant hide at all in the blurr spell The way I see it if you manage to hide sucessfully in the blurr you efectively break Line of Sight. Of course you cant hide in the blur spell while being observed. The hide skill specifically prohibts such, and only a few class abilities (Hide in plain sight) circumvent this. Of course, you can make it so you are not observed by 1. moving behind total cover/concealment 2. Bluff check to get the person to look elsewhere and 3... Err, cant think of anything else, but those two are usually sufficient.
Begferdeth 07-12-05, 11:45 PM	Sodaguy: Fort save should only have +1 from Con, and Will has +2 from Wis. Your sling should have a dex bonus to the attack I think... are they special? Other than that... looks good to me! Deadly: You didnt put anything in there for your stats while raging. The spoiler thing under racial/class features was blank. And Im glad my guy has no weapons... sunder that! :P
Deadly Assassin 07-12-05, 11:51 PM	Deadly: You didnt put anything in there for your stats while raging. The spoiler thing under racial/class features was blank. And Im glad my guy has no weapons... sunder that! :P Just checked the racial/class spoiler, and everything is there. And the stats for raging are in the class features, I just didn't add them because I don't think I'll rage that much...And I may not be able to sunder your weapons, but I can still deal a load of damage.
McJarvis 07-12-05, 11:52 PM	Does having 5 ranks in Decipher Script help when a wizard activates a scroll with a higher CL than their own? Example: Level 1 wizard wants to activate his scroll of invisibility, CL 3. Does he get the +2 synergy from 5 ranks in Decipher Script to his CL check? No, I'm pretty sure Decipher Script only gives a boost to UMD.
McJarvis 07-12-05, 11:53 PM	And I may not be able to sunder your weapons, but I can still deal a load of damage. Yeah, he can ignore your hardness to sunder you. ;)
Deadly Assassin 07-13-05, 12:17 AM	Yeah, he can ignore your hardness to sunder you. ;) If only that were possible...:D "I move to grapple you." "And I sunder you in half." Lol, that would be awesome.
Deadly Assassin 07-13-05, 01:56 AM	Not that any of my characters will be there anytime soon, but are epic levels allowed?
Pittbull 07-13-05, 03:27 AM	Yes, epic levels are allowed, Cat is desparetely waiting for the level 20 League ;) ! But you can use the epic-stuff only if you're allready epic, so do not think of taking any feat earlier.
KerlanRayne 07-13-05, 05:27 AM	What is the gp and xp cost to scribe a 1st level spell with a CL of 3?To scribe the scroll would cost 37.5 gp, 3 xp, and no credits. To buy the scroll would be 75 gp and 1 credit. Given the full psionic/magic transparency, can we make tattoos of spells?No, you can't. Transparency is only for interaction of spells and powers. Now for the Blur debate. Here's some facts: You need concealment or cover to hide. Blur grants concealment. You can't hide while being observed. You can use a standard action to Feint and move action to hide. Here's how I see it. You can hide while under the effects of blur as long as you are not observed or have Feinted successfully. Any opponent with Line of Sight will know exectly which square you are in (He sees a blurry person), but not what position you are in without a successful spot check. This means that your next attack would be a sneak attack but afterwards you are no longer hidden. (No rules for melee like sniping.) To get hidden again you would have to use a full round to Feint and Hide again leaving you open for attack. If you win the spot check it's 20% miss chance, if you don't, it's a 50% miss chance, but you always know which square to attack. Doesn't seem too abusable to me. Question: Do you need to make hide checks every round to stay hidden while performing other actions (like drink a potion)? KerlanRayne
Deadly Assassin 07-13-05, 07:05 AM	But you can use the epic-stuff only if you're allready epic, so do not think of taking any feat earlier. Yes, I know, I was just planning ahead. ;)
Tellish_of_Ket 07-13-05, 07:49 AM	@zerone: Despite the wording and word choice, and not to mention the interchangability of definitions in the english language, one thing remains steadfastly clear about what you summarized with the blur spell. Nothing actually interferes, intervenes, blocks or otherwise poses to interpose between the blurrer and the viewer. The blurr spell says it "..grants you 20% concealment" not "creates a barrier between you and your opponent that gives you 20% concealment." It is a "magical effect" placed upon a person. IF and a big if at that, the blurr spell was a conjuration effect i would seriously have to consider it more thoroughly. But it is illusion/glamor and thus does not create anything substantial. -ToK
Zerone 07-13-05, 08:18 AM	PHB: Concealment, 2nd Paragraph Typically, concealment is provided by fog, smoke, a shadowy area, darkness, tall grass, foliage, or magical effects that make it difficult to pinpoint a target's location. The above is a Core Rule that lists magical effects as one of many ways to gain concealment. No where under Concealment is there the word 'barrier' nor the phrase 'interferes, intervenes, blocks or otherwise poses to interpose between' as you suggest (Wouldn't that be Cover?), just that something that grants concealment be present, which Blur grants. Saying that Blur doesn't work because it is illusion/glamor is like saying I could not hide within an illusion's shadows, if the illusion cast shadows within it's AoE. If I make an illusion of a pillar, and the pillar casts a shadow, then by your reasoning I could not hide within the shadow becasue it is not real, even though the 'enemy' believes it to be real shadow? I'm trying to be factual and sometimes that comes across wrong, so please do not think that I am angry! :D *•. Z
Tellish_of_Ket 07-13-05, 09:10 AM	magical effects that make it difficult to pinpoint a target's location. Blurr grants you 20% concealment, it doesn't make you difficult to pinpoint your location. They can see you, albeit it fuzzy. -ToK
SoulLord 07-13-05, 10:42 AM	Blurr grants you 20% concealment, it doesn't make you difficult to pinpoint your location. They can see you, albeit it fuzzy. -ToK ok lets go to the other extreme. lets suppose you are invisible you could do a spot check at +20 difficulty to notice the invisible character. Now if you do notice him then he can't hide even though he's invisible? from the srd Concealment and Hide Checks You can use concealment to make a Hide check. Without concealment, you usually need cover to make a Hide check.
Luni 07-13-05, 11:06 AM	It is vacation time for me. I am going to Fragapalooza (http://www.fragapalooza.com). It starts next week, but unfortunately, I've been having computer troubles, so inbetween work and fixing my computer I won't have any time for Core Coliseum. So, I should see you all in two weeks.
Gonbow 07-13-05, 11:30 AM	Blurr grants you 20% concealment, it doesn't make you difficult to pinpoint your location. They can see you, albeit it fuzzy. -ToK Yeah... concealment is the state of being hard to see. ALL concealment. Wether it is from Blur, Darkness or torch light in a otherwise unlit room. Qouted from the glossary on the D&D page: Something that prevents an attacker from clearly seeing his or her target. Concealment creates a chance that an otherwise successful attack misses (a miss chance). Source: PHB What is so hard to understand about that? Blur gives concealment. Just like Darkness and everything else. The blurry outline stuff is flavor, pure and simple. If the spell was called 'dark form', and shrouded the person in short-range darkness, but did the exact same thing mechanically, would you let someone hide in it? Come on. Reading through the character sheets on this board, I've seen more than a few cases of flavor substitution (Elan as Warforged, Celestial Human as Angels, etc) and no one has a problem with it as far as I can see; as long as the mechanics are the same. I'll say my potions of blur are potions of dark bloody form, if it will fix this particular problem, because all the objections are based around the FLAVOR of the thing. That's not a good enough reason to nerf something that clearly functions well within the rules WITHOUT any wrangling. In my humble opinion, anyways.
Purkake 07-13-05, 11:39 AM	Hmm, seems like we have a spirit of the rules vs the rules here. I have always thought that you can hide with blur and seems that by RAW you can. So will the elders vote or what will happen?
TelinArtho 07-13-05, 01:16 PM	New to the CoCo - and I'm working on my first character. I'm sure this has been asked before, but I just want to make sure it will work as I suspect: If a character has a Pearl of Power (2nd) and has 18 total spell levels (and therefore can cast 6 spell levels per fight) for instance. During his fight, he casts 2 2nd level spells and 2 1st level spells. Now he uses his Pearl to gain a spell back. How is this accounted for in game terms: a) get to use it and be able to cast the spell specifically wanted back (so if you used it on Summon Monster II, you could cast that specific spell again) b) get to use it to add a spell back into your spells/day but don't HAVE to use it for that spell (as in the spell is on your list, but it counts as adding 2 spell levels to your fight allotment - so you could theoretically cast 2 Summon Monster Is (if you had them memorized). c) some other complicated possibility. This doesn't really apply to the 1st level one - but I could see the possibility of using a 9th level Pearl in order to gain 9 spell levels for use in the battle. I'm going to progress assuming that it is the first case (you get a specific spell back that you can cast even if you've already hit your normal limit). Thanks in advance.
Malither76 07-13-05, 01:29 PM	you are correct, You gain back that specific spell and can cast it again, so technicaly speaking you gain those 2 spell levels back, for use in the fight, now you could use those to cast 2 more 1st level spells if you had them left available or another 2nd level spell of your choice, the thing is the pearl gives you the specific spell back, but you haven't reached your daily total yet, just your arena total so this is like having 2 extra spell levels available
xanadu 07-13-05, 01:49 PM	Yeah... concealment is the state of being hard to see. ALL concealment. Wether it is from Blur, Darkness or torch light in a otherwise unlit room. Qouted from the glossary on the D&D page: Something that prevents an attacker from clearly seeing his or her target. Concealment creates a chance that an otherwise successful attack misses (a miss chance). Source: PHB What is so hard to understand about that? Blur gives concealment. Just like Darkness and everything else. The blurry outline stuff is flavor, pure and simple. If the spell was called 'dark form', and shrouded the person in short-range darkness, but did the exact same thing mechanically, would you let someone hide in it? Come on. Reading through the character sheets on this board, I've seen more than a few cases of flavor substitution (Elan as Warforged, Celestial Human as Angels, etc) and no one has a problem with it as far as I can see; as long as the mechanics are the same. I'll say my potions of blur are potions of dark bloody form, if it will fix this particular problem, because all the objections are based around the FLAVOR of the thing. That's not a good enough reason to nerf something that clearly functions well within the rules WITHOUT any wrangling. In my humble opinion, anyways. I think the implications of your logic are problematic. Darkness and blur are both second level spells. Darkness creates the conditions necessary to hide and offers a 20% miss chance for concealment. The biggest problem with darkness is that it negates your own precision based attacks and unless you are a ranged combatant, it also grants a miss chance to your opponent. Blur removes all the drawbacks and still enjoys all the benefits.
Gonbow 07-13-05, 02:04 PM	I think the implications of your logic are problematic. Darkness and blur are both second level spells. Darkness creates the conditions necessary to hide and offers a 20% miss chance for concealment. The biggest problem with darkness is that it negates your own precision based attacks and unless you are a ranged combatant, it also grants a miss chance to your opponent. Blur removes all the drawbacks and still enjoys all the benefits. A valid point, in most cases blur (by RAW) is preferable. However, in 3.0 darkness was vastly more powerful than it is now. I believe the spell level discrepency is a hold-over from the previous edition. The problems with darkness for a stealth-based character are also valid. If we cant use blur to TRY and hide... how is a lone rogue supposed to use sneak attacks in the Arena? Hide by itself is hampered by the conditions of the arena and the strict (and justifiably so) rules on when it can be applied. Even when you delve into magic, Obscuring Mist, Darkness, Fog Cloud... All nerf sneak attacks. The only spell that lets you use Sneak Attacks is Invisibility... And given it's bonuses, is there even a point to taking ranks of Hide for a Arena Rogue? At higher levels you'll have Improved Invisibility, or Blink. I suppose it's too much to ask that rogues be able to get by without borrowing from wizards/clerics.. but that is what UMD is for.
Purkake 07-13-05, 02:09 PM	Basically blink does the same, can you hide with that?
xanadu 07-13-05, 02:10 PM	how is a lone rogue supposed to use sneak attacks in the Arena? Simple, they dont. 1 vs 1 pitfight is absolute worst setting for a rogue. Sneak attack will only work once, as per problems you laid out, so the best chance is an assassin with high death attack DC. Good luck getting there ;)
KerlanRayne 07-13-05, 03:08 PM	How is a lone rogue supposed to use sneak attacks in the Arena? Hide by itself is hampered by the conditions of the arena and the strict (and justifiably so) rules on when it can be applied. Even when you delve into magic, Obscuring Mist, Darkness, Fog Cloud... All nerf sneak attacks. The only spell that lets you use Sneak Attacks is Invisibility... And given it's bonuses, is there even a point to taking ranks of Hide for a Arena Rogue? At higher levels you'll have Improved Invisibility, or Blink. I suppose it's too much to ask that rogues be able to get by without borrowing from wizards/clerics.. but that is what UMD is for.Soundslike a regular game to me. In any encounter hide is usually only good once, unless you are sniping. Sniping can be very effective. You can also use flanking with a cohort, summoned creature, or animal ally. I'd say flanking is the most common way to get sneak attack. Kerlan Rayne
Deadly Assassin 07-13-05, 03:48 PM	How much xp is needed to get to lvl 5?
Salrantol 07-13-05, 04:08 PM	10000
McJarvis 07-13-05, 04:23 PM	Late Addition Davian (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6686849&postcount=346) has arrived, ready to fight.
Gonbow 07-13-05, 04:38 PM	Davian notes: AC is 20, not 21 (+2 dex, not +3) Add the note on Fortitude as to where the +1 comes from Add the note on Improved Psicrystal feat as to what level you got it
Deadly Assassin 07-13-05, 04:52 PM	Do I need UMD to be able to use tattoos? And is it a tattoo I need to manifest Dissolving Weapon if not psionic? If so, how much does one cost?
Prince FyreDragon 07-13-05, 05:00 PM	Being a newbie to COCO, I was hoping to maybe have some of the more talented people out there give me some feedback on my first character (located on the character thread), either here or via PM. Recommendations, criticisms, mistakes, glaring weaknesses...things like that.
TelinArtho 07-13-05, 05:24 PM	My character has just arrived (specifically after the deadline so I had some time in case there are errors) - please feel free to rip him apart. As a note, I've played 3.0 extensively but only have the 3.5 SRD - so if there seems to be a glaring mistake, it is probably because of this ignorance on my part. The character I've created is one I've been tempted to make for a while and this seemed like a reasonable place to start. Thanks in advance for any and all comments. Kraegin (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6687335)
xanadu 07-13-05, 05:27 PM	@ Deadly assassin - no UMD needed for tapping psionic tattoos. @ all - rules question. I see several characters who have access to the psion power list but aren't egoists. Yet, they are carrying animal affinity stones, a power on the psi warrior and egoist list, but not on the psion list. Can they use these stones with no problem? I'd like to know because I have a psion as well.
Malither76 07-13-05, 05:32 PM	nope, like scrolls the power has to be on your list
McJarvis 07-13-05, 05:50 PM	Davian notes: AC is 20, not 21 (+2 dex, not +3) Add the note on Fortitude as to where the +1 comes from Add the note on Improved Psicrystal feat as to what level you got it I just made these changes, but I think my clock may have been an hour off. Not sure if I made them after the deadline- sorry if this is the case! I'm not sure what the harm could be, but I understand having to uphold rules for thier own sake(creeping mold commitment)
Deadly Assassin 07-13-05, 06:17 PM	Is there a Dissolving Weapon tattoo? If so, how much does it cost? If not, is there anyway I can get Dissolving Weapon manifested/cast on my weapons?
Jh316 07-13-05, 08:49 PM	Basically blink does the same, can you hide with that? Blink specifically says it gives a miss chance, not concealment.
Zerone 07-13-05, 09:10 PM	Concerning Concealment/Blur: Just wondering how the other elders (ones with no input or anything beyond a 'no') are viewing this topic. *•. Z
Zerone 07-13-05, 09:32 PM	Where in the PHB or DMG does it state that casting the same spell on a character twice (Mage Armor) doubles/stacks the duration?
Jh316 07-13-05, 09:32 PM	Does DR from Adamantine armor stack with DR from a class feature?
Begferdeth 07-13-05, 11:17 PM	@McJarvis: You messed up the HTML for your reflex save. Its funny colored :P And no weapons? I dunno if its cool to go kill an unarmed man. Of course, killing a gnome is always cool, armed or not :P GNOOOOOOMESS!! @TelinArtho Negative CHA modifier? You will never rebuke any undead like that! And the CL on a Pearl of Power is 17. Can you make those?
Deadly Assassin 07-13-05, 11:40 PM	Does the +4 armor bonus to AC from Mage Armor stack with the normal armor bonus to AC?
Gonbow 07-13-05, 11:42 PM	Blink specifically says it gives a miss chance, not concealment. *sighs* Read the entire spell, not just the descriptive line. Blur Illusion (Glamer) Level: Brd 2,Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Creature touched Duration: 1 min./level (D) Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) The subject’s outline appears blurred, shifting and wavering. This distortion grants the subject concealment (20% miss chance). A see invisibility spell does not counteract the blur effect, but a true seeing spell does. Opponents that cannot see the subject ignore the spell’s effect (though fighting an unseen opponent carries penalties of its own). However there was, last I checked, a vote going on to determine if the concealment is actually concealment, or if it will be house-ruled.
TelinArtho 07-13-05, 11:50 PM	@TelinArtho Negative CHA modifier? You will never rebuke any undead like that! And the CL on a Pearl of Power is 17. Can you make those? From the Rules of the Game entry regarding Crafting: However, you do not have to have the caster level mentioned in the item's entry! It seems to me that the crafting does not require the CL requirement. If I am mistaken, please let me know. As to the rebuking of undead - its a feature my character probably won't choose (and would rather destroy undead anyway... but evil clerics don't get that option...). Plus its only a -1 - how bad could it be...?
Jh316 07-13-05, 11:50 PM	Why did you post that? I said blink didn't give concealment, only a miss chance. Perhaps you should re-read my post. I didn't say a thing about blur, I said blink. *sighs* Read the entire spell, not just the descriptive line. *sighs* Read the entire post, not just what you want to hear.
Salzorin 07-13-05, 11:56 PM	Ooh, that's a very interesting point... if the spell Blink SPECIFICALLY gives a miss chance and no concealment... then isn't it safe to say that WoTC definitely had the fact that blur gives concealment in mind? that it does actually mask your location in some respect... enough to remain hidden within it. Otherwise, what's the point of writing the spell description with concealment instead of just writing it like Blink is written?
Jh316 07-14-05, 12:05 AM	Blink is a bit confusing, actually. The base effect is 50% miss chance against physical effects, and doesn't say it's concealment, just says that. Then, a few lines later, it says that if you're capable of striking ethereal creatures, you get a 20% miss chance (for concealment). But then, it also says the Blind Fight feat doesn't help, and Blind Fight works against concealment.
Jh316 07-14-05, 12:30 AM	Does armor check penalty from load stack with that from armor?
LLMadCow 07-14-05, 12:35 AM	Does the +4 armor bonus to AC from Mage Armor stack with the normal armor bonus to AC? Different named bonus types all stack, but usually a named bonus does not stack with another bonus of the same name, except for Dodge bonuses and some circumstances. So, the +4 ARMOR bonus from Mage Armor does not stack with the normal ARMOR bonus to AC. LL
Deadly Assassin 07-14-05, 12:40 AM	Ok, sounds good. Thanks LL.
McJarvis 07-14-05, 12:46 AM	@McJarvis: You messed up the HTML for your reflex save. Its funny colored :P And no weapons? I dunno if its cool to go kill an unarmed man. Of course, killing a gnome is always cool, armed or not :P GNOOOOOOMESS!! @TelinArtho Negative CHA modifier? You will never rebuke any undead like that! And the CL on a Pearl of Power is 17. Can you make those? Yeh..no weapons. I forgot a few key offensive things to add to him, though. I think he's gonna get creamed in this coming fight. Oh well.
Salrantol 07-14-05, 01:00 AM	no, otherwise dwarves would just wear 6 suits of full plate for the +48 armor bonus.
Jh316 07-14-05, 01:30 AM	Okay, I have a question on the fight I'm running. Milo is hiding and Doran has moved. Milo has line of sight on him, but the line of sight is partially obstructed by the corner of a pillar halfway between them. Does Doran get cover, and does he get a hide check? I'd use the LoS calculater posted in the Characters thread, but the link is a 404. Milo is at (-23, -4) and Doran is at (-6, -22)
Gonbow 07-14-05, 01:50 AM	*sighs* Read the entire post, not just what you want to hear. Good point ;) I apologize. Knee-jerk reactions, such as what I just did are NOT a good thing.
Jh316 07-14-05, 01:55 AM	*Shrug* No worries.
Jh316 07-14-05, 03:41 AM	Are you able to disarm as a normal attack in a grapple without pinning? If so, does the attack penalty apply to both rolls? Do you get the bonus for having a two-handed weapon in a grapple?
LLMadCow 07-14-05, 05:27 AM	Okay, I have a question on the fight I'm running. Milo is hiding and Doran has moved. Milo has line of sight on him, but the line of sight is partially obstructed by the corner of a pillar halfway between them. Does Doran get cover, and does he get a hide check? I'd use the LoS calculater posted in the Characters thread, but the link is a 404. Milo is at (-23, -4) and Doran is at (-6, -22) Since the line of sight is partially Obstructed, Doran does get a +4 AC bonus from cover and Doran may attempt to hide. BTW - Go here for the line of sight calculator.... (http://www.sebastian-sutor.de/coco/start.html)
LLMadCow 07-14-05, 05:39 AM	Are you able to disarm as a normal attack in a grapple without pinning? If so, does the attack penalty apply to both rolls? Do you get the bonus for having a two-handed weapon in a grapple? No, N/A, [In a grapple] you can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a –4 penalty on such attacks. No two-handed weapons!!!!! And what is "the bonus for having a two-handed weapon in a grapple" that you speak of? I know of no such animal! Two hands, okay, but a two-handed weapon, no-no. LL
Jh316 07-14-05, 05:50 AM	Read it in context. I mean do you get the bonus for resisting disarming with a two-handed weapon in a grapple?
Zerone 07-14-05, 07:27 AM	Where in the PHB or DMG does it state that casting the same spell on a character twice (Mage Armor) doubles/stacks the duration? *•. Z
Tellish_of_Ket 07-14-05, 07:31 AM	*•. Z It doesn't. You can cast mage armor on yourself as often as you want. Unfortunately like bonuses do not stack. Mage armor grants an "armor" bonus and so you can only benefit from one at a time. You cannot benefit from chainmail + mage armor because they both give "armor" bonuses and like bonuses do not stack (unless it specifically says it does). -ToK
Zerone 07-14-05, 07:52 AM	So you cannot cast 5 Mage Armors with a Duration of 4 hours as a pre-buff to a fight, correct? *•. Z
Tellish_of_Ket 07-14-05, 07:55 AM	So you cannot cast 5 Mage Armors with a Duration of 4 hours as a pre-buff to a fight, correct? *•. Z correct. I guess i misinterpreted your post/question earlier. Now i see you meant does the time it stays on stack. Nope...unless there's a spell that actually specifically says it does, none of them do. -ToK
Deadly Assassin 07-14-05, 08:23 AM	Is there any way for gladiators in a team battle to know where their partner(s) start?
Vathelokai 07-14-05, 09:23 AM	If a wizard casts a spell with a durration (say, 5 rnds), and the caster is killed on the 2nd round of the durration does the effect end, or does it continue for 3 more rnds?
Caterane 07-14-05, 09:45 AM	It's nowhere written that it ends upon death
Jh316 07-14-05, 09:57 AM	I don't use Internet Explorer. How do I authorised unsigned activeX using Firefox?
Rim-Soulfang 07-14-05, 09:59 AM	What did you guys in was you both wanted to gang up on Tira?! At 27 AC, even with Zars +11 to hit while flanking, it wasn’t going to be an easy task. You should take down the weaker guy first and fast then grapple/pummel the spellcaster. You guys should have won this fight hands down.Forgot about the buffs, her 12 ac made it look like a quick kill.
King Uther 07-14-05, 01:08 PM	@ All newer players There is an evil guild assimilating into Gladius society. If you play an evil character and like the idea of joining an eventual epic struggle versus the forces of good, join here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6087836&postcount=1) by posting a roleplay entrance and PMing me. I promise it will be great fun, as well as an outlet to enjoy being evil.
SoulLord 07-14-05, 01:49 PM	So you cannot cast 5 Mage Armors with a Duration of 4 hours as a pre-buff to a fight, correct? *•. Z It happens all the time in the campaigns. if the mage armor runs out the wizard just casts it again. It should be a valid pre-buff as long as you don't exceed your limit of 1/3 spells for pre buffs
Caterane 07-14-05, 01:54 PM	Not really. I haven't seen a single mage in our campaigns who uses all his 1st lvl slots for mage armor, or spends constantly ressources on it.
SoulLord 07-14-05, 02:01 PM	Not really. I haven't seen a single mage in our campaigns who uses all his 1st lvl slots for mage armor, or spends constantly ressources on it. I have a Fighter Sorcerer in an rpol campaign he knows only 2 spells true strike and mage armor (practiced spellcaster feat) so yes whenever a mage armor spell runs out he just casts another. Usually it means 2 a day but due to the rules in gladius I could well see him using all his pre-buff alloted spell slots which would otherwise do nothing for him in the fight.
Caterane 07-14-05, 02:07 PM	Well, yeah, and Megrim has players in his group who constantly play races with an opposed <always> alignment. During my stay in the US I had a group where the normalest guy was a good half-fiend drow or something like that. There are surely crazy things happening but I will take the coco as an example and not Megrim's group, and once I see the majority of wizards using up half their 1st level spells just to enter with mage armor, then we might talk about that. As it is now, the opposite is the case.
SoulLord 07-14-05, 02:21 PM	Well, yeah, and Megrim has players in his group who constantly play races with an opposed <always> alignment. During my stay in the US I had a group where the normalest guy was a good half-fiend drow or something like that. There are surely crazy things happening but I will take the coco as an example and not Megrim's group, and once I see the majority of wizards using up half their 1st level spells just to enter with mage armor, then we might talk about that. As it is now, the opposite is the case. well it all depends if it's allowed or not. If it's allowed I predict a lot of wizards,clerics,druids, etc... using their pre-buff spell list. otherwise it seems limited to either wasting gold asking for a higher lvl wizard to cast it. or waiting until you can cast an extended spell with enough duration for it last. 16/2 = 8 for a spell to last 8 hours it would need at least a caster level of 8 for mage armor and even then it would have to be extended. lets say 50 gp * cl(8) * sl(2) = 16*50 = 800 gp just to enter with mage armor.
Caterane 07-14-05, 02:46 PM	It is allowed. In Campaigns and Quests. And no one uses it.
SoulLord 07-14-05, 04:43 PM	It is allowed. In Campaigns and Quests. And no one uses it. I would. but I prefer to do my roleplaying in rpol as it's credit free. But oh well if im not allowed to cast spells as prebuffs until they can exceed the duration. I guess i'll have to wait until I reach lvl 8.
Deadly Assassin 07-14-05, 08:27 PM	@Prince Fyre Dragon: You soulknife's ranged mind blade attack doesn't use your dex bonus, as it is considered a thrown weapon, so it uses your str bonus.
Prince FyreDragon 07-14-05, 08:42 PM	@Prince Fyre Dragon: You soulknife's ranged mind blade attack doesn't use your dex bonus, as it is considered a thrown weapon, so it uses your str bonus. DEXTERITY (DEX) Dexterity measures hand-eye coordination, agility, reflexes, and balance. This ability is the most important one for rogues, but it’s also high on the list for characters who typically wear light or medium armor (rangers and barbarians) or no armor at all (monks, wizards, and sorcerers), and for anyone who wants to be a skilled archer. You apply your character’s Dexterity modifier to: • Ranged attack rolls, including those for attacks made with bows, crossbows, throwing axes, and other ranged weapons. • Armor Class (AC), provided that the character can react to the attack. • Reflex saving throws, for avoiding fireballs and other attacks that you can escape by moving quickly. • Balance, Escape Artist, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Ride, Sleight of Hand, Tumble, and Use Rope checks. These are the skills that have Dexterity as their key ability. Emphasis mine Based on what it says under Dexterity regarding throwing axes, I have always played that all throwing weapons use your Dexterity for your attack bonus, but add your Strength to your damage. If that is incorrect, I would like an Elder to confirm this before I alter my character (not that it will make much of a difference LOL).
Tellish_of_Ket 07-14-05, 08:43 PM	Emphasis mine Based on what it says under Dexterity regarding throwing axes, I have always played that all throwing weapons use your Dexterity for your attack bonus, but add your Strength to your damage. If that is incorrect, I would like an Elder to confirm this before I alter my character (not that it will make much of a difference LOL). You are correct Prince. Use dex as a modifier to hit and str to damage. -ToK
Zerone 07-14-05, 09:40 PM	Does activating a scroll have a verbal component? Or rather, does it always have a verbal component? *•. Z
Deadly Assassin 07-14-05, 09:42 PM	Emphasis mine Based on what it says under Dexterity regarding throwing axes, I have always played that all throwing weapons use your Dexterity for your attack bonus, but add your Strength to your damage. If that is incorrect, I would like an Elder to confirm this before I alter my character (not that it will make much of a difference LOL). My bad. Lol, I always do that...assume that its the strength bonus for all thrown weapons...My apologies.
SoulLord 07-14-05, 09:55 PM	Does activating a scroll have a verbal component? Or rather, does it always have a verbal component? *•. Z from the srd Determine Effect A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way. Assume the scroll spell’s caster level is always the minimum level required to cast the spell for the character who scribed the scroll (usually twice the spell’s level, minus 1), unless the caster specifically desires otherwise. If the spell inscribed on the scroll has a verbal component then yes.
Zerone 07-14-05, 10:10 PM	Shouldn't a Familiar be treated as a 'summoned' creature? After all, the ability to gain a familiar is called 'Summon Familiar'. *•. Z
McJarvis 07-15-05, 12:20 AM	yay! my first win in the pitts! And I only spent 50 more gp then I won :)[darn those miscalculations of spell effects]
Salrantol 07-15-05, 12:51 AM	And I only spent 50 more gp then I won Get used to it. UMD is an expensive hobby.
McJarvis 07-15-05, 12:58 AM	Get used to it. UMD is an expensive hobby. My "team" is back to the drawing board on finding cheap effective things. I think we're finally onto something... For darn sure I'm not buying those scorching ray scrolls for a while...
Salzorin 07-15-05, 12:59 AM	Balancing costs vs. power is a very difficult task...
Deadly Assassin 07-15-05, 03:02 AM	Is there a powerstone of dissolving weapon?
Pittbull 07-15-05, 03:37 AM	Yes, powerstone of DW: ML4 for 200gp.
Deadly Assassin 07-15-05, 04:21 AM	Ok, kool. Thanks Pittbull. Now, another question: Can you scribe a divine spell onto a scroll if you have the scribe scroll feat?
Pittbull 07-15-05, 05:30 AM	If you are a divine caster, who's able to cast this spell, why not? To calculate the price: Look here! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingScrolls) !
Deadly Assassin 07-15-05, 06:33 AM	Ok, thanks again. Now, last question (for now): How much would a 0-lvl spell cost to scribe, or can you even do that?
Salrantol 07-15-05, 07:18 AM	0-level scrolls: Market Price: 12 gp, 5 sp Scribe Price: 6 gp, 2 sp, 5 cp, 1 XP
TelinArtho 07-15-05, 11:01 AM	Hmmm... If a character with Augmented Summoning casts a summon spell from a scroll (or uses a charge from a wand) - would the summoned creatures be affected by the feat (and therefore gain +4 str/con?)? My original inclination was no - but then I saw a character that had augmented summoning with a bunch of scribed scrolls...
Cerebus13 07-15-05, 11:43 AM	Hmmm... If a character with Augmented Summoning casts a summon spell from a scroll (or uses a charge from a wand) - would the summoned creatures be affected by the feat (and therefore gain +4 str/con?)? My original inclination was no - but then I saw a character that had augmented summoning with a bunch of scribed scrolls...Nope this doesn't work, I'm pretty sure there was a Rules of the Game article on the Wizards site about "Using Magic Items" that answered this. As it is the CoCo doesn't allow the feat to work with anything except summons from your own spells.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-15-05, 11:47 AM	Cerebus is correct. Summons from scrolls cannot be augmented by a feat. -ToK
SoulLord 07-15-05, 11:59 AM	well you could cast an extended summon spell if you have the extend spell feat. I guess you could even add empower spell to a summon spell if you chose to cast it as summoning multiple creatures. If you had the feat augment summoning I don't see why you could not scribe a scroll using it.
TelinArtho 07-15-05, 12:09 PM	I just wanted to make sure - it definitely didn't seem like it would work to me. Also - as far as "making a scroll with it" I don't think it would work since it isn't a metamagic feat. Like I said, I saw a character that happened to have the Aug. Summoning feat and some summoning scrolls in an arena (of course, in that particular battle he didn't use either...), so I just wanted to know for my own case.
Prince FyreDragon 07-15-05, 12:10 PM	Everyone, As a newbie to COCO, I just wanted to take a moment and thank everyone, especially the Elders and pitlords, for making it so easy for someone like myself to get up to pace with this great place. Although not new to D&D, I am very new to arenas and online gaming in general, and have thus had lots of questions, not only on the game itself, but also on the technical side of things such as postings and things of that nature. Everyone so far has been more than helpful, and deserves a big Tarrasque pat on the back (ok, maybe the Big T would put his hand through your back, but that's beside the point LOL). So kudos to everyone, and hopefully after losing a few hundred matches to everyone, I'll pick up on some things that will make me a better builder LOL.
SoulLord 07-15-05, 12:22 PM	I just wanted to make sure - it definitely didn't seem like it would work to me. Also - as far as "making a scroll with it" I don't think it would work since it isn't a metamagic feat. Like I said, I saw a character that happened to have the Aug. Summoning feat and some summoning scrolls in an arena (of course, in that particular battle he didn't use either...), so I just wanted to know for my own case. aaaaaaa I thought that it was a metamagic feat. In that case I concede no augment summoning with scrolls.
Prince FyreDragon 07-15-05, 05:47 PM	Mithral: Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than iron but just as hard. When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonus is increased by 2, and armor check penalties are lessened by 3 (to a minimum of 0). An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon’s size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed). Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a scythe cannot be.) With the above in mind regarding mithral, if I were to have a mithral heavy shield and use it as an offhand weapon for two weapon fighting purposes, would it be considered a medium weapon or a light weapon? For armors (and I am including shields in armors, although this could be a poor assumption), it says that they are treated as one category lighter (i.e. medium armor is treated as light), so if I go by that, a Mithral Heavy Shield could be considered a light shield and therefore not subject to any offhand penalties beyond the normal TWF ones. If we classify it as a weapon, then it would not change, and would be subject to "no light weapon in off-hand" penalties. Can I get a clarification of this, please?
Tellish_of_Ket 07-15-05, 05:50 PM	With the above in mind regarding mithral, if I were to have a mithral heavy shield and use it as an offhand weapon for two weapon fighting purposes, would it be considered a medium weapon or a light weapon? For armors (and I am including shields in armors, although this could be a poor assumption), it says that they are treated as one category lighter (i.e. medium armor is treated as light), so if I go by that, a Mithral Heavy Shield could be considered a light shield and therefore not subject to any offhand penalties beyond the normal TWF ones. If we classify it as a weapon, then it would not change, and would be subject to "no light weapon in off-hand" penalties. Can I get a clarification of this, please? This issue has come up in the past. The answer is no, it doesn't count as a light weapon for purposes of an off-hand attack. One of the reasons (and there were many) is that it doesn't change the size category, nor does it say anything about "light shields" in two-weapon fighting or shield bashing. A two-handed sword cannot be used as a "light weapon" regardless of the material it is made from, thus neither can shields. Hope this helps. I don't remember everything about the discussion, but it went somewhere along those lines. -ToK
Tellish_of_Ket 07-15-05, 06:27 PM	Hey all, My campaign A History Lesson, Part 1 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=457081) still needs players. Lots of them, scroll down to read the intro as well. Don't let the low EL fool you. The ecounters can easily be scaled to meet the parties needs. So if only ECL 5-6 players sign up, it will be changed to meet the challenge. I would like to get it started on the 20th, so please PM me if you want to be included on the waiting list. -ToK
Vathelokai 07-15-05, 06:39 PM	It seems your link is broken, ToK. It might just be me though. Do you know of any way to get 5 credits before the 20th? I don't want to borrow or have my way payed. Just leads to problems. Also, is this trek going to go far from Gladius? Will there be possibilities to take one week breaks here and there?
Tellish_of_Ket 07-15-05, 06:44 PM	OOps. Fixed. -ToK
Vathelokai 07-15-05, 06:49 PM	notice the above edit :rolleyes:
Jindl 07-15-05, 07:01 PM	Do you know of any way to get 5 credits before the 20th? I don't want to borrow or have my way payed. Just leads to problems. Also, is this trek going to go far from Gladius? Will there be possibilities to take one week breaks here and there? Sure, you could write stories for some fights (even if you weren't the pitlord, just ask the pitlord if you can write the story). You get 1 credit per story, if its a decent story. You could also audit some characters, and post your findings on the Violations thread. I'm not sure how many characters you have to audit to get a credit, but I think its like 1 credit per 15 character levels audited. Of course, this assumes an in depth audit (including equipment, skills, and resources expended/rewards gained in their fight history). Also, we do still need some Environemental Maps, for each of the major terrain types. Feel free to submit some maps on the Maps thread. If any of yours are selected, you will be rewarded with credits. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 07-15-05, 07:03 PM	It seems your link is broken, ToK. It might just be me though. Do you know of any way to get 5 credits before the 20th? I don't want to borrow or have my way payed. Just leads to problems. Also, is this trek going to go far from Gladius? Will there be possibilities to take one week breaks here and there? It will not go beyond Gladius for some time. Part two (after the first session is done) will be the far reaches of our realm, plus planar exploration. As for the credits, you can draw out some good maps, offer to take someone's fight(s), do some auditing of characters etc... -ToK
Prince FyreDragon 07-15-05, 07:07 PM	This issue has come up in the past. The answer is no, it doesn't count as a light weapon for purposes of an off-hand attack. One of the reasons (and there were many) is that it doesn't change the size category, nor does it say anything about "light shields" in two-weapon fighting or shield bashing. A two-handed sword cannot be used as a "light weapon" regardless of the material it is made from, thus neither can shields. Hope this helps. I don't remember everything about the discussion, but it went somewhere along those lines. -ToK It does help...I figured that would be the answer but wanted a 2nd opinion. But it does lead me to a second question. With anything mithral, it is already assumed to be masterwork as a part of the crafting, and is priced with this built into the overall cost of the item. If I were to make a mithral light shield with shield spikes specifically to use with two weapon fighting, would the shield spike add-on cause me to have to pay the masterwork cost a 2nd time to receive the +1 to attack rolls that masterwork weapons provides, or does the fact that the shield is already a masterwork item allow me to have that bonus to attack without incurring a masterwork charge a second time? BTW, anyone have an idea on what my next character will be focused on? LOL
Vathelokai 07-15-05, 07:13 PM	MASTERWORK ARMOR Just as with weapons, you can purchase or craft masterwork versions of armor or shields. Such a well-made item functions like the normal version, except that its armor check penalty is lessened by 1. A masterwork suit of armor or shield costs an extra 150 gp over and above the normal cost for that type of armor or shield. The masterwork quality of a suit of armor or shield never provides a bonus on attack or damage rolls, even if the armor or shield is used as a weapon.Won't help you anyway...
Prince FyreDragon 07-15-05, 07:15 PM	Won't help you anyway... ...which is why I am inquiring about adding masterwork shield spikes to a shield. If the spikes are masterwork (regardless of whether I have to pay the masterwork cost for this whole thing twice or just once), then I should receive a +1 to attack, as the spikes *are a melee weapon.
SoulLord 07-15-05, 07:19 PM	you need to pay for the mw spikes if you wish to have the +1 bonus
Vathelokai 07-15-05, 07:23 PM	Shield Spikes: When added to your shield, these spikes turn it into a martial piercing weapon...My appologies... Since it becomes a weapon it would give the +1 MW. ...Shield spikes +10 gp ...I take this to mean that it is treated as part of the weapon and not a seperate thing to be crafted, so you would only be charged once. But then, I was wrong just a second ago. Anyone else have an opinion?
Tellish_of_Ket 07-15-05, 07:26 PM	It does help...I figured that would be the answer but wanted a 2nd opinion. But it does lead me to a second question. With anything mithral, it is already assumed to be masterwork as a part of the crafting, and is priced with this built into the overall cost of the item. If I were to make a mithral light shield with shield spikes specifically to use with two weapon fighting, would the shield spike add-on cause me to have to pay the masterwork cost a 2nd time to receive the +1 to attack rolls that masterwork weapons provides, or does the fact that the shield is already a masterwork item allow me to have that bonus to attack without incurring a masterwork charge a second time? BTW, anyone have an idea on what my next character will be focused on? LOL As described in the special materials "mithral", all items made from mithril as assumed to be masterwork and the masterwork cost is already figured into the price. Now, onto armor spikes. Armor spikes are add-ons, and not part of the armor. If you add armor spikes to a suit of mithral armor, they are not mithrial spikes...they are just normal, non-mw spikes. You would have to pay seperately to have them made of mithril or even just normal mw. The spikes on your shield do not have to be mw to get the +1 bonus that the shield being masterwork already gives you. You aren't hitting with the spikes, you are attempting to "bash with your shield" and the spikes are just there for added cushioning. Although that part i may need some backing up on. At least that's how i see it. Someone may have a different point of view on it. -ToK
Vathelokai 07-15-05, 07:46 PM	I've found it. A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls.An enhancement bonus on a spiked shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but a spiked shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right. I would argue against the paying for the shield and spikes seperately though. They are one item. The spikes cannot be taken off and put on a different shield. You could make it +1magic and darkwood for nearly the same price.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-15-05, 09:01 PM	Well, it specifically says, "When added to your shield...", and to me that reads that they are added on seperately after shield creation. Otherwise their would be a seperate phb entry and price for each type of spiked-shield. -ToK
Vathelokai 07-16-05, 10:18 AM	Now that I have been in my first fight, what do I do? Is is my duty to update my char. sheet to reflect the outcome of the battle? If I go and buy equip or craft new scrolls do I have to post it somewhere other then my sheet (or is that only for black market items)? Can I use my craft skills to make items that I can sell for profit (with 1000gp cap of course)? Can I only craft things for myself? Is there any thing else I can do with my time other then setting my gladiator "ready for july 20"? Also a rules question: the psionic feat Up the walls (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicFeats.html#up-the-walls) states that if you end your move on a wall you fall prone. Does the monk slowfall ability negate this?
Megrim_Lord 07-16-05, 11:04 AM	curiosity, since I haven't been tracking COCO updates, what happened to the roleplay thread and where is that done now?
xanadu 07-16-05, 01:52 PM	Vathaelokai, Yes, you update your gladiator after the fight has been run. It is a good idea to wait a day or two if the fight is posted early bcause some mistakes may have been made and the fight changed. Crafting scrolls is something you put on your sheet, no need for the black market since they are legit core. As far as crafting for profit, I'm not sure. I know that if you craft an adamantine greatsword, you cant fight. So I guess its possible, but you wont be fighting. Better wait for other opinions though.
Vathelokai 07-16-05, 03:51 PM	In the description of crawling tatoos (SRD:psionic items:universal items) it says "their effects are often harmful rather than beneficial." 'Often' being the key word. Is it allowed to put a a benificial power on a crawling tatoo for use in team fights?
Tellish_of_Ket 07-16-05, 04:41 PM	EMERGENCY!! I was about to add a roster/waiting list to my campaign that is going to be starting on the 20th, A History Lesson, Part 1 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6589483#post6589483) and accidently cleared out my PM box. Those that were interested and PM'd me, can you please PM me again with which character you would like to join with. ECL 3 or 4 is fine. We are still short a couple of players. Anyone still interested in joining please PM me quickly. I'm gonna start building the story line around the pc's that are signed up. In the event that we do not get 4 people, unfortunately i'll have to wait until the 27th to start. This surely isn't optimal as i'm sure those that have signed up would like to commence this week. Anyhow, those that have asked to be put on the waiting list, please re-pm me (except Luni). -ToK
Mind Rogue 07-16-05, 05:30 PM	In the description of crawling tatoos (SRD:psionic items:universal items) it says "their effects are often harmful rather than beneficial." 'Often' being the key word. Is it allowed to put a a benificial power on a crawling tatoo for use in team fights? Should be able to, as long as it is an appropriate power (meaning a spell of 3rd level or lower that targets a creature and isn't a compulsion).
xanadu 07-16-05, 05:51 PM	@ rim-soulfang or deadly assassin - accroding to the quest log, you 2 are looking for quests. I'd like one of my characters to go on a mini-quest next week. PM me please if still interested.
Deadly Assassin 07-16-05, 06:01 PM	@ rim-soulfang or deadly assassin - accroding to the quest log, you 2 are looking for quests. I'd like one of my characters to go on a mini-quest next week. PM me please if still interested. Oh, yea...forgot to ask Pitlords to remove me from that for now...I've currently got 1 quest started and 2 more and a mini-quest in the makings. Rim, can you take him? I don't want to take more than I can handle, but if you can't I'm sure I can manage...
Vathelokai 07-16-05, 06:13 PM	Weaponsmithing, Armorsmithing, Bowmaking: You may craft any non-magical item with a listed price that is related to the respective craft skill. The cost of raw materials is 1/2 (not 1/3), but the speed of crafting is much faster than that given in the skill description: you can craft 1000 gp's worth of market price in one day. For example, an adamantine greatsword costing 3050 gp would take 4 days to craft, and cost you 1525 gp. You are assumed to be taking 10 on all crafting rolls. Did I read this wrong or can I craft 7000gp of weapons and armor a week?Crafting and Time: You may craft items up to 1000 gp Marketprice without having to sit out. However, if you exceed that value, you cannot participate in any event. Your character is still considered active.I think it might have been a missprint. Poisonmaking and Alchemy: With Craft poisonmaking, you can craft any non-magical poison listed in the DMG, p297. The cost of raw materials is 1/2 of the base price. There is no chance for failure and you complete it much faster. To create a poison, you need to have a Craft Poisonmaking skill modifier of at least as high as the respective poison's DC. For example, if you want to craft carrion crawler brain juice poison (Dc13), you would have to have a Craft poisonmaking modifier of +13 or more.Is this correct? With all other craft skills you are assumed to take 10. Why the +10 DC to craft poisions? is it a game balance issue?
LLMadCow 07-16-05, 09:07 PM	Weaponsmithing, Armorsmithing, Bowmaking: You may craft any non-magical item with a listed price that is related to the respective craft skill. The cost of raw materials is 1/2 (not 1/3), but the speed of crafting is much faster than that given in the skill description: you can craft 1000 gp's worth of market price in one day. For example, an adamantine greatsword costing 3050 gp would take 4 days to craft, and cost you 1525 gp. You are assumed to be taking 10 on all crafting rolls. Did I read this wrong or can I craft 7000gp of weapons and armor a week? Crafting and Time: You may craft items up to 1000 gp Marketprice without having to sit out. However, if you exceed that value, you cannot participate in any event. Your character is still considered active. I think it might have been a missprint. Poisonmaking and Alchemy: With Craft poisonmaking, you can craft any non-magical poison listed in the DMG, p297. The cost of raw materials is 1/2 of the base price. There is no chance for failure and you complete it much faster. To create a poison, you need to have a Craft Poisonmaking skill modifier of at least as high as the respective poison's DC. For example, if you want to craft carrion crawler brain juice poison (Dc13), you would have to have a Craft poisonmaking modifier of +13 or more. Is this correct? With all other craft skills you are assumed to take 10. Why the +10 DC to craft poisions? is it a game balance issue? 1st - Yes, this is correct. 7,000gp market value worth of gear can be crafted in one week. 7,001gp takes 8 days. My character Dunewalker is crafting a bunch of gear this week. Primarily a Mithral Steel Shield and Breastplate. Total cost for everything will be 3,455gp = 6,910gp Market Value and takes a week to make. 2nd - Yes, this is correct. 1,000gp market value worth of gear can be crafted without having to sit out for the week. My character Dunewalker will be crafting a [Ma]Ranseur (Large), worth 320gp, costing 160gp to craft and this will be crafted along with his fight next week. 3rd - Yes, this is correct. Game balance is the reason, otherwise people would be making insane poisons pretty quickly. Assuming starting Int 20, +1 @4th & 8th, headband of Int +4 (Crafted for 8,000gp), ECL9, max ranks (non-cc) - you qualify for all but 2 poisons (27/29). Why worry about taking 10? If you wanted to optimize for this one particular purpose, I think you could do it with an Elven Wizard 5, 9,000gp; Int 21 +5 (25 +7), self-crafted Headband of Int +4, Craft Poison 8 Ranks, Skill Focus: Craft Poison, Alchemists Lab (+2 Circumstance Bonus) = +20 Craft Poison Modifier at level 5. So, there really is no reason to make it any easier. LL Elder
Tellish_of_Ket 07-16-05, 09:10 PM	One last slot available for A History Lesson, Part 1 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=457081) We can start with 4, and add the 5th one later though, so for sure it will be starting this Wednesday. -ToK
Megrim_Lord 07-16-05, 09:17 PM	curiosity, since I haven't been tracking COCO updates, what happened to the roleplay thread and where is that done now? I reiterate :)
SoulLord 07-16-05, 10:53 PM	Just a note since monster fight are down for the time being why not insted have npc gladiators fight to fill the uneven pairings? As for the roleplaying stuff. it is being done just not in the thread you look for :)
TelinArtho 07-17-05, 01:35 AM	Anyone care to take a look over my 2nd character? He can be found here: Ambellon the Calm (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6716702)
Kaigan 07-17-05, 02:28 AM	hello everyone. My campaign is still up, and I'm hoping to start soon. I'm looking for ECL 3 characters. Good alignment, maybe neutral. Please PM me, or email me at postfontaine04@hotmail.com Here is the post. Drums of War. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=446832) Kaigan
Vathelokai 07-17-05, 07:44 AM	does the +1 MW bonus on a bow stack with the +1 MW bonus on the arrow?
Rim-Soulfang 07-17-05, 08:09 AM	Oh, yea...forgot to ask Pitlords to remove me from that for now...I've currently got 1 quest started and 2 more and a mini-quest in the makings. Rim, can you take him? I don't want to take more than I can handle, but if you can't I'm sure I can manage... No problemo, will do that.
LLMadCow 07-17-05, 08:11 AM	does the +1 MW bonus on a bow stack with the +1 MW bonus on the arrow? Nope. Multiple bonuses of the same kind do not stack, unless they happen to be dodge or different circumstance bonuses. To take it a step further, when using a magical bow and magical arrows, the greater of the two applies. LL
Caterane 07-17-05, 08:12 AM	does the +1 MW bonus on a bow stack with the +1 MW bonus on the arrow? no
LLMadCow 07-17-05, 08:54 AM	no Somebody's about a minute late replying, eh? It happens to the best of us. LL
McJarvis 07-17-05, 01:01 PM	Out of curiosity- What happens if you teleport your opponent out of the arena?(Oh say, with a Dislocator weapon) Does he have to get back in 10 rounds or less or give up the fight?
Megrim_Lord 07-17-05, 01:14 PM	Just a note since monster fight are down for the time being why not insted have npc gladiators fight to fill the uneven pairings? As for the roleplaying stuff. it is being done just not in the thread you look for :) well duh I figured that :D , the essential underlying question is where and how?
Tellish_of_Ket 07-17-05, 02:15 PM	Out of curiosity- What happens if you teleport your opponent out of the arena?(Oh say, with a Dislocator weapon) Does he have to get back in 10 rounds or less or give up the fight? Yup. But at around 33k+ you are looking at around 12th level before being able to do that. Maybe 10th with the pre-req's to create it yourself. A DC 17 will save isn't all that tough at that level, plus you have to hit at ranged and if you miss the charge is expended. You get one shot at it too because of the 1/3 rule. -ToK
McJarvis 07-17-05, 03:02 PM	Yup. But at around 33k+ you are looking at around 12th level before being able to do that. Maybe 10th with the pre-req's to create it yourself. A DC 17 will save isn't all that tough at that level, plus you have to hit at ranged and if you miss the charge is expended. You get one shot at it too because of the 1/3 rule. -ToK As I recall there is a way to augment save dc's at creation. Couldn't someone use credits to make a custom item with a much higher DC along with 1 extra use? EDIT- There is a good chance I'm remembering a 3.0 or non-core rule.
Megrim_Lord 07-17-05, 04:43 PM	well duh I figured that :D , the essential underlying question is where and how? let me be more pointed, where would I post a story if it has nothing to do with a fight or quest?
SoulLord 07-17-05, 09:08 PM	let me be more pointed, where would I post a story if it has nothing to do with a fight or quest? well I guess it depends on what character you wish to post a story to I'm almost certain there must be a proper guild for him otherwise it would be a good chance to create one :)
Deadly Assassin 07-18-05, 01:17 AM	Last chance. Jh316 is looking for another character to go on his quest, preferably a cleric, from ECL 3 to ECL 5. The deadline to join is 6:00 pm GMT, Monday, July 18. PM me if you are interested. If no one pm's me by then, I will set up the quest as a single character quest so it can run this week.
Deadly Assassin 07-18-05, 01:58 AM	Would someone mind checking Basil over for any errors? (Yes Cat, the same Basil from Garic's but lvl 3 and with better equipment. ;) :D ) Edit: And thanks Rim. Edit 2: Saw the mistake in the ability points-fixed that. Edit 3: Saw the spell mistake-fixed that.
Caterane 07-18-05, 04:34 AM	let me be more pointed, where would I post a story if it has nothing to do with a fight or quest? In the Roleplay thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=127417)
Deadly Assassin 07-18-05, 07:33 AM	Would someone mind checking Basil over for any errors? (Yes Cat, the same Basil from Garic's but lvl 3 and with better equipment. ;) :D ) Edit: And thanks Rim. Edit 2: Saw the mistake in the ability points-fixed that. Edit 3: Saw the spell mistake-fixed that. What? Nothing wrong with him?
Pitlords 07-18-05, 08:25 AM	@DA: You need to give the guys the link if you want them to check it, and send me the link if you want me to put him on the roster.
Deadly Assassin 07-18-05, 08:37 AM	Oh, my bad, lol. I assumed everyone had the option to see sigs after every post on, like I do. Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6640701) is Basil's sheet.
Vathelokai 07-18-05, 10:43 AM	@DA Basil's race says human, but the racial mods for elf are still on there. The stats as they are cost 36, so that's fine. HP should be 20 will save should be +6, and if you could put the base+stat eqation in [brackets] or silver it would help. Handle animal skill, your chr bonus is wrong Unless I'm missing something, divine casters shouldn't have "spells known." They can pull freely from the druid list. You can spontaneously cast "summon nature ally." Might want to put that somewhere. Your spells per day should have no 3rd lv spells. The druid is only third lv. Also, what's the N/A under "1st lv spells prepared"? You should have 4 zero lv, 3 first, and 2 second lv. preped. Your non-masterwork long bow has a str mod of +3. Since Basil is not that strong he should take a -2 to hit with it. Also the dmg shouldn't be +5. If you put those numbers in to reflect some kind of buff, then you should put the stats for the bow normaly, then put the modifiers in brackets. You might want to mention the weight of your equipment. Also, minor descriptive stuff. like "wooden holy symbol" instead of just "holy symbol." Your masterwork light wooden shield should only cost 153gp. The feats weapon focus or rapid shot might do you more good in the arena then precise shot, unless your doing lots of team fights. Putting [+1 point blank shot] in your attacks section might be helpfull to the pitlords. Your gold remaining should be 1417. after the shield refund it should be 1424gp.
TelinArtho 07-18-05, 10:54 AM	@Prince FyreDragon - Regarding Elb Just wanted to make note that your con bonus is listed as +4 for your 16 ability score. It seems your HP and Fort save are fine though - so you should just need to correct what you have written. /d
Prince FyreDragon 07-18-05, 11:51 AM	@Prince FyreDragon - Regarding Elb Just wanted to make note that your con bonus is listed as +4 for your 16 ability score. It seems your HP and Fort save are fine though - so you should just need to correct what you have written. /d Danke for the heads up....fixed. That's what I get for tinkering with the character before deciding it was mostly fine the way it was LOL. Also, can someone with a little more experience crafting items please doublecheck everything that I crafted and make sure I have the costs and such correct? This is my first attempt at crafting (in any game, PnP or otherwise).
TelinArtho 07-18-05, 12:05 PM	Masterwork Full Plate (crafted) [50 lbs][900 gp] Mithral Heavy Shield (crafted) [5 lbs][510 gp] Adamantine Dwarven Waraxe (crafted)[8 lbs][1515 gp] Dwarven Waraxe - 30gp, Admamantine - 3000gp, 3030gp total - half of that - 1515gp - check. Heavy Shield - 20gp, Mithril - 1000gp, 1020gp total - half of that - 510gp - check. Full Plate - 1500gp, Masterwork - 150gp, 1650gp total - half of that - 825gp - you should credit yourself 75gp.
Prince FyreDragon 07-18-05, 12:08 PM	Dwarven Waraxe - 30gp, Admamantine - 3000gp, 3030gp total - half of that - 1515gp - check. Heavy Shield - 20gp, Mithril - 1000gp, 1020gp total - half of that - 510gp - check. Full Plate - 1500gp, Masterwork - 150gp, 1650gp total - half of that - 825gp - you should credit yourself 75gp. What do you know....yer right. I forgot that the masterwork charge for armor is only 150 and not 300 like weapons. Kewl...now I can run out and get those masterwork crafting tools I've always wanted LOL.
Vathelokai 07-18-05, 12:09 PM	also might want to put that -6 armor check penalty next to your skills.
Prince FyreDragon 07-18-05, 12:32 PM	also might want to put that -6 armor check penalty next to your skills. I generally only list the skills I have ranks in or a racial/class modifier to, and none of the skills I have ranks in are affected by ACP. Which pretty much means that most of the time the skills affected by ACP will be an auto-fail anyway LOL.
Deadly Assassin 07-18-05, 01:32 PM	@DA 1) Basil's race says human, but the racial mods for elf are still on there. The stats as they are cost 36, so that's fine. 2) HP should be 20 3)will save should be +6, and if you could put the base+stat eqation in [brackets] or silver it would help. 4) Handle animal skill, your chr bonus is wrong 5) Unless I'm missing something, divine casters shouldn't have "spells known." They can pull freely from the druid list. You can spontaneously cast "summon nature ally." Might want to put that somewhere. Your spells per day should have no 3rd lv spells. The druid is only third lv. Also, what's the N/A under "1st lv spells prepared"? You should have 4 zero lv, 3 first, and 2 second lv. preped. 6) Your non-masterwork long bow has a str mod of +3. Since Basil is not that strong he should take a -2 to hit with it. Also the dmg shouldn't be +5. If you put those numbers in to reflect some kind of buff, then you should put the stats for the bow normaly, then put the modifiers in brackets. 7) You might want to mention the weight of your equipment. Also, minor descriptive stuff. like "wooden holy symbol" instead of just "holy symbol." Your masterwork light wooden shield should only cost 153gp. 8) The feats weapon focus or rapid shot might do you more good in the arena then precise shot, unless your doing lots of team fights. Putting [+1 point blank shot] in your attacks section might be helpfull to the pitlords. 9) Your gold remaining should be 1417. after the shield refund it should be 1424gp. 1/2/3/4/5/7/9) Fixed. 6) Noted that it will be used only after casting Bull's Strength. 8) You forget about my wolf companion...And I see Basil as more of a campaign character anways...Lol, I've talked to ToK about joining his campaign with Basil, but am still awaiting his response to my pm.
Vathelokai 07-18-05, 02:49 PM	And I see Basil as more of a campaign character anways...Lol, I've talked to ToK about joining his campaign with Basil, but am still awaiting his response to my pm. See you there!
TelinArtho 07-18-05, 03:06 PM	Tools - masterwork: In the equipment section of the SRD, I've noticed there are "Artisan's Tools - masterwork" for 55gp and "Tool, Masterwork" for 50gp. Since they both bestow the same bonus and nothing is really clear about which should be used, I just figured I would bring it up. In our own rules of Gladius, it cites the 50gp entry - so if you have paid 55gp for your own tools - you might request a refund... not a big deal, moneywise, but a small bonus to those who paid too much. /d
TelinArtho 07-18-05, 03:13 PM	@Maraxus I think this was discussed before, but I don't believe you can apply poison to arrows as a prebuff because of the following from the SRD: Perils of Using Poison A character has a 5% chance of exposing himself to a poison whenever he applies it to a weapon or otherwise readies it for use. Additionally, a character who rolls a natural 1 on an attack roll with a poisoned weapon must make a DC 15 Reflex save or accidentally poison himself with the weapon. I could be wrong though.
TelinArtho 07-18-05, 03:22 PM	@Maraxus Also - I don't believe you can purchase single arrows of Elf Bane +1 without expending 2 credits (if you wanted to purchase 5 or 10 at a time, you could use 1 credit). The following from the Rules of Gladius: You may pay 1° to get the right to buy magical projectile ammunition in stacks of 5 or 10 (both stacks have the same credit cost). This applies to arrows, bolts, and bullets. You may pay 2° to buy any number of ammunition. The ammunition cost applies normally. Normally, you can only buy stacks of 50. Note that there are special arrows (slaying, sleep) who do not follow this rule. Example: 10x +2 arrows of human bane, 5x +1 seeking bolt, 27x +3 coldiron frost bullet
TelinArtho 07-18-05, 03:26 PM	@Maraxus - one last thing - it appears you have 2 more ranks of Ranger skills to take into account (6-1)*4 (Ranger 1) + (6-1) + (2-1) = 25 ranger, 1 Fighter. You have used 23 ranger skill points.
Vathelokai 07-18-05, 03:34 PM	Poisonmaking and Alchemy: With Craft poisonmaking, you can craft any non-magical poison listed in the DMG, p297. The cost of raw materials is 1/2 of the base price. There is no chance for failure and you complete it much faster. To create a poison, you need to have a Craft Poisonmaking skill modifier of at least as high as the respective poison's DC. For example, if you want to craft carrion crawler brain juice poison (Dc13), you would have to have a Craft poisonmaking modifier of +13 or more. You can buy an alchemist's lab (500 gp) which gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on craft poisonmaking. Also, if memory serves, poison can be used as a pre-buff as long as it dosn't degrade faster then 16 hours.
KerlanRayne 07-18-05, 03:50 PM	I generally only list the skills I have ranks in or a racial/class modifier to, and none of the skills I have ranks in are affected by ACP. Which pretty much means that most of the time the skills affected by ACP will be an auto-fail anyway LOL.We generaly include some skills no matter what. Move silently, so your opponent can locate you if they want to hide or run away. Spot and Listen, so you can find an opponent that doesn't want to be. KerlanRayne PS - Shame on you for making Garet Jax and Damson Rhea elves. :P
Prince FyreDragon 07-18-05, 04:07 PM	We generaly include some skills no matter what. Move silently, so your opponent can locate you if they want to hide or run away. Spot and Listen, so you can find an opponent that doesn't want to be. KerlanRayne PS - Shame on you for making Garet Jax and Damson Rhea elves. :P Heh, I figured *someone out here would know those names....I suck at names so I tend to plagarize from my favorite books...just the names mind you, not the characters themselves. So sue me. Or better yet, duel me :evillaugh
SoulLord 07-18-05, 04:33 PM	Quick question ..... When improving weapons from +1 to +2 or similar you only pay the difference in price. now If by paying credits I buy a headband of intelect +1 can I later on just pay the difference in price to upgrade it to a +2 headband of intellect?
Huan 07-18-05, 04:36 PM	Heh, I figured *someone out here would know those names....I suck at names so I tend to plagarize from my favorite books...just the names mind you, not the characters themselves. So sue me. Or better yet, duel me :evillaugh And yet, no one has commented on 'Huan'... clearly no one here has read their J.R.R. Tolkien well enough. ;)
SoulLord 07-18-05, 04:49 PM	And yet, no one has commented on 'Huan'... clearly no one here has read their J.R.R. Tolkien well enough. ;) Huan the hound of Valinor ... should I continue?
Salzorin 07-18-05, 04:58 PM	I plagiarize anime for all of my gladiator names.
Vathelokai 07-18-05, 05:00 PM	I grab mine from my japanese dictionary.
xanadu 07-18-05, 05:15 PM	I have a gladiator who would like to do her part for the E.H.T.C. The guild would like Klaus Orepha, an arena judge who favors good Gladiators, eliminated. My gladiator is ECL 4 and would like to plant the seeds of Klaus's eventual downfall. I'm thinking of a one week mini-quest to remove Klaus's bodyguard leaving him open for a future coup de grace. Takers?
Deadly Assassin 07-18-05, 06:29 PM	I have a gladiator who would like to do her part for the E.H.T.C. The guild would like Klaus Orepha, an arena judge who favors good Gladiators, eliminated. My gladiator is ECL 4 and would like to plant the seeds of Klaus's eventual downfall. I'm thinking of a one week mini-quest to remove Klaus's bodyguard leaving him open for a future coup de grace. Takers? nvm Edit: Ah, ok. My bad.
xanadu 07-18-05, 06:36 PM	Oops, I meant would someone be interested in running a quest.
Megrim_Lord 07-18-05, 08:18 PM	In the Roleplay thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=127417) shouldn't it be stickied then? wasn't it at one point?
Jh316 07-19-05, 02:00 AM	So, where do I post to deduct a credit for my quest, or will Pitlords just deduct it automatically when the pairings are done?
LLMadCow 07-19-05, 05:46 AM	So, where do I post to deduct a credit for my quest, or will Pitlords just deduct it automatically when the pairings are done? Pitlords takes care of 97.34628%* of the credit transactions during pairings. LL *Exact % is +/- 2.65372%** **Okay, exact % isn't exact, just some number I made up, but you get the idea. Why are you reading this line? There aren't supposed to be anymore notes down here! I wonder what this line will look like when I am done?
Caterane 07-19-05, 12:16 PM	@Questlords: You would make my life a bit easier if you would update the Questlog as soon as the weekly battle is finished. Write a short description into the log like I always do on the Questroster. That helps bunches! Tha-anks. :cool:
TelinArtho 07-19-05, 12:20 PM	I've had a few minutes (or hours) to spend this morning on this and that, and so I've posted a few character violations. If I get more time, I might post more. This has nothing to do with me being a nitpicker (alright it might), but rather to help me pore through the rules on each character to help when I start pitlording this week. I've tried to restrict my comments to those characters marked as "Ready for July 20th." /d
Mind Rogue 07-19-05, 03:23 PM	I'm kind of curious how pearls of power work in CoCo. Do they allow the bearer to simply cast another spell of that level, knowing that after the battle, he can simply replace it with the pearl, or does the character have to use an action to regain the spell? For instance, say we have Bob the Wizard with the 1st level spells sleep, mage armor, and magic missile, as well as a 1st level pearl. He normally can only cast one 1st level spell during the battle. If he spends his first round casting mage armor as a buff, can he immediately follow up with sleep or magic missile, or does he have to activate the pearl first?
King Uther 07-19-05, 03:42 PM	@Caterane/Pitlords Sorry I don't always update my quest roster immediately. Often it slips my mind until I post the rewards for the quest.
SoulLord 07-19-05, 03:57 PM	I'm kind of curious how pearls of power work in CoCo. Do they allow the bearer to simply cast another spell of that level, knowing that after the battle, he can simply replace it with the pearl, or does the character have to use an action to regain the spell? For instance, say we have Bob the Wizard with the 1st level spells sleep, mage armor, and magic missile, as well as a 1st level pearl. He normally can only cast one 1st level spell during the battle. If he spends his first round casting mage armor as a buff, can he immediately follow up with sleep or magic missile, or does he have to activate the pearl first? pearl of power is command word activated from the srd Once per day on command, a pearl of power enables the possessor to recall any one spell that she had prepared and then cast so the spell would have to be cast first either in battle or earlier as a prebuff for the pearl to be used to recall that specific spell which has been previously cast.
Altaris13 07-19-05, 04:13 PM	Howdy folks! Take easy on the noob, iffin' ya would... :D
Vathelokai 07-19-05, 04:31 PM	I'll go easy on you if you "favorite" these links! This dosn't pertain to a preticular fight. These are helpfull links for newer players (and pitlords) who havnt' mastered the rules yet. The D&D glossary (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary) wherin all terms and how things stack are explained. The System Reference Document (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html) wherein all rules are explained for free. The Online Dice Roller (http://invisiblecastle.com/index.php) which gets so much use around here. Also, if you havn't heard, there is a Creature Competition (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050510a) where there is a public vote on the coolest creature. The eventual winner will have a Free adventure module (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20030530b) written about them. Stop the Tarrasque while you can! Jannys and Meepo for president!
Salrantol 07-19-05, 04:32 PM	Well, for starters, I'll point out that you appear to have put down "Combat Reflexes" instead of "Combat Expertise" on your character sheet. Important, since you have Improved Disarm and Improved Trip, both of which require Combat Expertise.
Altaris13 07-19-05, 04:49 PM	I'll go easy on you if you "favorite" these links! <snip> Stop the Tarrasque while you can! Jannys and Meepo for president! Succubi Paladin!!! :D Thanks for the links. Well, for starters, I'll point out that you appear to have put down "Combat Reflexes" instead of "Combat Expertise" on your character sheet. Important, since you have Improved Disarm and Improved Trip, both of which require Combat Expertise. Corrected! Thanks.
Prince FyreDragon 07-19-05, 05:09 PM	If a caster, such as a druid or wizard, has the Weapon Finesse feat, does that allow him to make take attacks with touch spells using his dexterity instead of his strength for the to hit (thus making touch attacks and ranged touch attacks both with Dexterity)? Unarmed strikes are light weapons, and thus finessable, so I would think it would, but would like clarification if possible.
Vathelokai 07-19-05, 05:41 PM	SAVING THROWS AGAINST MAGIC ITEM POWERS Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects. For a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability modifier of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell. Is there any way to increase the ability modifier? Like an headband of intelect +2? I know if I craft it myself it still uses the min. stat bonus. I also know heighten spell can increase the effective spell lv. Is there any other way that I don't know about to increase DC?
Kaigan 07-19-05, 08:33 PM	hello everyone. My campaign is still up, and I'm hoping to start soon. I'm looking for ECL 3 characters. Good alignment, maybe neutral. Please PM me, or email me at postfontaine04@hotmail.com Here is the post. Drums of War. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=446832) Kaigan Please, need people to join. It will be fun. I intend to include all facets of the game including riddles, wit, politics, combat, etc. If interested please PM or email. Thanks. Kaigan
Gonbow 07-19-05, 08:48 PM	Heh, I'd join, but I'm already going to be in a brief credit hole for joining one campaign.. Joining two would be credit suicide! Speaking of suicide... I'm going to try out this +2 LA guy; Santos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6719309#post6719309)! He's a monk, and fraagile (with a huge AC). Anyone have suggestions as to magic items/expendable items that someone with such low HP needs/could use? I'd appreciate it, even if my deadline for fixing him up is rapidly approaching.
Sindorin 07-19-05, 09:27 PM	Heh, join so I can have THREE CHARACTERS IN CAMPAIGNS. I'm digging my own grave, I swear...
Cerebus13 07-19-05, 09:47 PM	If characters in campaigns were not considered active I would give it a shot. However I'm not sure if letting people do that is a good idea either, because they may overextend themselves.
Deadly Assassin 07-19-05, 09:49 PM	Heh, I'd join, but I'm already going to be in a brief credit hole for joining one campaign.. Joining two would be credit suicide! Speaking of suicide... I'm going to try out this +2 LA guy; Santos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6719309#post6719309)! He's a monk, and fraagile (with a huge AC). Anyone have suggestions as to magic items/expendable items that someone with such low HP needs/could use? I'd appreciate it, even if my deadline for fixing him up is rapidly approaching. Powerstones of Vigor and CLW/CMW potions?
Gonbow 07-19-05, 10:06 PM	Powerstones of Vigor and CLW/CMW potions? Vigor! Brilliant! But... CMW? Isn't that a bit of... overkill? With only 8 hps, CLW seems like a better bet, but I'll toss some on there. Tumble should let me retreat to a corner that I can hide in, easily enough to quaff the potion.
Gonbow 07-19-05, 11:23 PM	A few questions regarding Psionic Tattoos... What kind of powers can be put in them? Dissolving Weapon; usable as a tattoo for someone with a natural attack or no? How about the various 'X centered around you' abilities? Ranged attack abilities? (Does the caster's 'choice' include where the person's finger is aimed at in the case of various ray powers? Or would they themselves automatically be the 'target' regardless of the description of the attack spell?)
Mind Rogue 07-19-05, 11:25 PM	pearl of power is command word activated from the srd so the spell would have to be cast first either in battle or earlier as a prebuff for the pearl to be used to recall that specific spell which has been previously cast. I don't think you quite understand what I'm asking. I don't want to cast the same spell again, but rather get around the limitation of only being able to cast 1/3 of all your spells. Instead of being able to regain and use the mage armor again, I want to get around this limitation and cast one of the other spells, and I'm wondering if and how the pearl of power would let this happen.
Cerebus13 07-19-05, 11:30 PM	I don't think you quite understand what I'm asking. I don't want to cast the same spell again, but rather get around the limitation of only being able to cast 1/3 of all your spells. Instead of being able to regain and use the mage armor again, I want to get around this limitation and cast one of the other spells, and I'm wondering if and how the pearl of power would let this happen.The rules description says something along the lines of "the spell is then prepared again, just as if it had not been cast". So looking at the literally if you went from 3/3 spell levels to 2/3 spell levels, use Pearl of Power to regain the spell you cast.....you would be as you were before you had cast the spell, at 3/3 spell levels. I'm not an Elder but this seems to be the most logical conclusion.
LLMadCow 07-20-05, 12:00 AM	I don't think you quite understand what I'm asking. I don't want to cast the same spell again, but rather get around the limitation of only being able to cast 1/3 of all your spells. Instead of being able to regain and use the mage armor again, I want to get around this limitation and cast one of the other spells, and I'm wondering if and how the pearl of power would let this happen. If you have a Pearl of Power Level 1, you can use it 1/day = 1/Fight. Now, if you have Mage Armor, Magic Missile and Summon Monster I memorized and cast Mage Armor in round 1, that counts as 1/3 of your available spells, leaving you with 2/3. Next, in round 2 you activate the Pearl of Power and it restores you to 3/3 status and so you can now cast whatever you want. LL
GuardianAngel 07-20-05, 01:01 AM	I am sure it has been answered but what about Feats and weapons from other Wotc books....(ie. Compelete Series? Races of Stone? so forth) And to that note, what if an opponent of mine has one of them?
Prince FyreDragon 07-20-05, 01:06 AM	I am sure it has been answered but what about Feats and weapons from other Wotc books....(ie. Compelete Series? Races of Stone? so forth) And to that note, what if an opponent of mine has one of them? This is a core-only arena, with the core material consisting of the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Monster Manual and Expanded Psionics Handbook, along with the online System Reference Document from the WotC website. Any other material is prohibited....hence the name COre COliseum LOL.
GuardianAngel 07-20-05, 01:14 AM	Then how come I see characters with feats out of the Compelete warrior like Improved Toughness and Greater Two-Weapon Defense? That was why their was a second half to the post, If my opponent's character didn't follow the rules what happens?
Prince FyreDragon 07-20-05, 01:34 AM	All characters are subject to approval before dueling. If there is a violation that you know of, feel free to report it in the Character Violation thread on this forum. One that you mentioned, the Improved Toughness feat, has already been reported (by me LOL). If it is not fixed by the time it is paired, and it is a major violation that causes the character to have an unfair advantage, it is usually held out of pairings or could also be given an auto-loss. I would recommend making sure your character(s) are in compliance....the Elders and Pitlords, as well as the rest of us, police ourselves very well. I love this place, and I've only been here a week. On another note, there is no guarantee that you will be facing a specific person. You can certainly request it, and the DM usually tries to honor those requests, but it does not always happen. So do what I do. Make sure your character is good to go, and then report any violations in other characters that you notice. As long as it gets caught and fixed by turn-in time, it's not an issue :bow:
Pete278 07-20-05, 04:53 AM	Hi, I'm making a character so I can start playing here, but I would like to know whether Use Magic Item is any good in the CoCo?
Vathelokai 07-20-05, 05:08 AM	A few questions regarding Psionic Tattoos... What kind of powers can be put in them? Dissolving Weapon; usable as a tattoo for someone with a natural attack or no? How about the various 'X centered around you' abilities? Ranged attack abilities? (Does the caster's 'choice' include where the person's finger is aimed at in the case of various ray powers? Or would they themselves automatically be the 'target' regardless of the description of the attack spell?) Any power that targets your self can go in a regular tatoo. Any power that targets someone else must be put in a crawling tatoo (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicItemsU.html). I believe, since MindRogue told me, that suggestion enchantments cannot be put in tatoos. In the crawling tatoo examples they show a ranged attack, so I assume all ranged attacks are allowed. As for area effects, don't know. As to your earlier question, stones of vigor might not work. Stones, like scrolls, can only be used if the power in question is on your spell list. So unless your monk has a psionic lv (not just psi-points) they cannot use them, unless you have the Use Psionic Device skill. Tatoos of vigor are 50gp and anyone can use them. I also recommend the precognition and prescience powers, biofeedback, Other ways to boost hp: potions of aid and bear's endurance are about it at 300gp each.
Vathelokai 07-20-05, 05:14 AM	Hi, I'm making a character so I can start playing here, but I would like to know whether Use Magic Item is any good in the CoCo? You mean use magic device, right? If you skill focus or get some psionic items, like third eyes or shards, then yeah. But even with max ranks, the chance for failure at low levels is a bit high (higher then I would bet on, at least). It's a very expensive hobby, though. I saw a fight last week where the winner spent more to win the fight then the prize.
Pete278 07-20-05, 05:37 AM	Ok I won't have that. Thanks for the help.
Vathelokai 07-20-05, 06:00 AM	Now, if you really want to go down that path, try 1st lv. rogue human, int 18 high wisdom, 2nd lv wiz, 3rd cleric. Since everythings on your spell list...If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers. ...then you can use pretty much anything. Only problem with that is the arena rules say you can only use items that are +2ECL to you. Basicly, your 3rd lv char can only use upto 5th lv stuff (i.e. 3rd lv spell scrolls) which still dosn't evade the high price. If you go with the spell caster, make extensive use of scribe scroll to avoid arena limits. But carefull, scrolls have a crappy DC (lv1=11, lv2=13, lv3=14).
Maraxus 07-20-05, 07:28 AM	13 new Characters this week! Is this much? Ahem ... I mean ... Hi, I'm Maraxus and I'm really eager to fight my first fight. This Coliseum looks greatly organized (through this means that one always worries to have done some mistake). The warrior I sent to the pit is Mythos, a new name for my archer, he was already set for a lot of fights in the d&d classes and prestige classes forum, however no fight happened untill now.
Pitlords 07-20-05, 09:01 AM	@Campaignlords: If one of the characters levels during your campaign, please send me a PM. Thanks. @Pete: If you post your character before 9 PM GMT (Western European Time) he will be paired. Else you would have to wait till next wednesday. You can play 2 characters without moderating fights. @Maraxus: Don't worry, we will all help you. Just ask here if you have a question.
Gonbow 07-20-05, 10:12 AM	Any power that targets your self can go in a regular tatoo. Any power that targets someone else must be put in a crawling tatoo (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicItemsU.html). I believe, since MindRogue told me, that suggestion enchantments cannot be put in tatoos. In the crawling tatoo examples they show a ranged attack, so I assume all ranged attacks are allowed. As for area effects, don't know. As to your earlier question, stones of vigor might not work. Stones, like scrolls, can only be used if the power in question is on your spell list. So unless your monk has a psionic lv (not just psi-points) they cannot use them, unless you have the Use Psionic Device skill. Tatoos of vigor are 50gp and anyone can use them. I also recommend the precognition and prescience powers, biofeedback, Other ways to boost hp: potions of aid and bear's endurance are about it at 300gp each. Yeah, I did realize that bit about Vigor, I got a tattoo of it instead. Precog and prescience eh? I don't want to spend 10 turns buffy my guy! All my stuff will wear off before I am done! ^_^ We'll see how my first fight goes and decide which bits are useful or not.. Santos has alot of extra gold. Wha tI really wanted to know was if Dissolve weapon would work or not, since it's a 'maybe'. Thanks for your thoughts though, I do appreciate it.
Deadly Assassin 07-20-05, 10:38 AM	@ Pitlords (the GM) Hey, since I haven't heard from you yet, are the encounters and rewards I sent you for Jh316's and Shaken's quest and miniquest appropriate/correct? If not, I need to know asap so I can fix them. Thanks.
Altaris13 07-20-05, 12:10 PM	Forgive the noob, but I have what might be a silly question. I was looking over the past fights & tactics, and the maps thread. How do I structure a starting position for my tactics? Would someone be kind enough to explain that?
Cerebus13 07-20-05, 12:19 PM	Forgive the noob, but I have what might be a silly question. I was looking over the past fights & tactics, and the maps thread. How do I structure a starting position for my tactics? Would someone be kind enough to explain that?All of the starting squares are the same, simply flipped and turned depending on which cardinal direction they lay on. I find the easiest way to explain your position is in relation to the central obstacle of the arena, which will always be in the same spot. For example, if the North square is your starting square: I want to start in the center point closest to the central obstacle in my starting square. - You would start at the southern most central point of your starting square. I want to start directly behind the rock that is on my left side when I face the central obstacle. - You would start directly north of the rock in the eastern part of the starting square. With these descriptions the Pitlord can decipher where you end up being no matter which square you start in.
Altaris13 07-20-05, 12:32 PM	All of the starting squares are the same .. <snip> With these descriptions the Pitlord can decipher where you end up being no matter which square you start in. Great advice! Much thanks to you C!!!
TelinArtho 07-20-05, 12:35 PM	While clearing up another issue, Jindl seems to indicate that an assumption I had made (and had confirmed by others), might be incorrect. Here's the quoted text from his post in this weeks Fights thread: If Aku had a 1st lvl pearl of power, then he could use it in combat to restore a spell level he had used. This could allow him to cast mirror image and sleep (using his 3 spell levels), then use the pearl to restore sleep (thus "uncasting" a spell level), which would allow him to cast shocking grasp. Please note that the pearl of power does not add a spell level to Aku's allotted spells. It merely allows him to "uncast" a spell he had cast, as appropriate for the pearl. So, for instance, Aku could NOT cast mirror image (a 2nd level spell), then use the 1st lvl pearl of power to restore 1 spell level so that he could then cast blindness. The pearl of power can only "uncast" spells of the appropriate level. I have a character who has 4 spell levels to cast in a day, two pearls of power (1 1st, 1 2nd). I cast a 3 1st level spells and use my PoP (1st) to regain a spell back (so now I have 4 -1-1-1+1 = 2 Spell levels to cast). Can I now cast a 2nd level spell? Its not so much a problem for me, but I need to know in case my tactics start relying on it one way or another. (Like I said, I had posted this question earlier last week and got a different answer than what Jindl gives above). thanks in advance
GuardianAngel 07-20-05, 12:35 PM	http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicMonsters.html#XEPH the race Xeph It says he gains a Racial Feat towards his class but doesnt say which one, and on the warrior he has just weapon finesse. Where do I find this extra feat?
Prince FyreDragon 07-20-05, 12:45 PM	Actually what it says is... Racial Feats: A xeph character gains feats according to his or her character class Meaning that it's feats depend on what class he is. He does not get any feats just for being a xeph (like a human does for being human)
Jindl 07-20-05, 12:45 PM	I have a character who has 4 spell levels to cast in a day, two pearls of power (1 1st, 1 2nd). I cast a 3 1st level spells and use my PoP (1st) to regain a spell back (so now I have 4 -1-1-1+1 = 2 Spell levels to cast). Can I now cast a 2nd level spell? Its not so much a problem for me, but I need to know in case my tactics start relying on it one way or another. (Like I said, I had posted this question earlier last week and got a different answer than what Jindl gives above). thanks in advance Yes. The PoP (1st) "uncasts" the spell level for one of your 1st lvl spells. That means you now have 2 spell levels remaining under the 1/3rd rule, and can cast a 2nd lvl spell. You could NOT cast 2x 2nd lvl spells, then use the PoP (1st) to restore a spell level so that you could cast a 1st lvl spell. See the difference?
TelinArtho 07-20-05, 01:34 PM	Well, like I said, your clarification of the other issue made this unclear to me - but now you have clarified that as well, so everything is good... /d
Deadly Assassin 07-20-05, 01:56 PM	Just making sure, would a halfling's +1 racial attack bonus to thrown weapons/slings stack with a +1 mw attack bonus?
TelinArtho 07-20-05, 02:00 PM	yes because they are different bonuses (+1 from masterwork is an enhancement bonus; +1 from halfling is a racial bonus).
TelinArtho 07-20-05, 02:37 PM	This is specifically addressed to Altaris13, but should be worth mentioning en masse, in case someone may have missed this: Altaris - you have the following listed in your default tactics: If my opponent is sighted but not within chargeable range, then I'll single move closer to cover while switching to my bow. Using 2 points for Expertise, I'll snipe. However, expertise specifies you can only make use of the feat in melee combat: When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as –5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The changes to attack rolls and Armor Class last until your next action. Just figured you should know - because it could affect the way you go about your battles.
Altaris13 07-20-05, 02:47 PM	That's interesting... It seems that the SRD 3.5 is still based on 3.0 rules, at least in part. I was reading through the 'special initiative actions' and that is a hold over from 3.0 which is incorrect. Delay & Ready actions do not reset your initiative. Do we (here in the CoCo) go by the rules in the PHB & DMG? Or does the SRD overrule?
TelinArtho 07-20-05, 04:49 PM	Strange question I'm sure, but: If I wanted to craft some Adamantine Full Plate Barding for my warhorse, what would its market price be? a) (1500+15000)*2 = 33000gp market price - 16500gp to craft or b) 1500*2+15000 = 18000gp market price - 9000gp to craft Of course, this is the most extreme example - but it provides all of the information necessary I believe. (and yes, I'm assuming it is option a - I'm just curious).
Tellish_of_Ket 07-20-05, 05:08 PM	...begins now. A History Lesson, Part 1 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=457081) for those that are signed up [Vathelokai, Luni, LLMadcow, Gonbow, and Deadly Assassin]. You may now post and begin. Have fun. -ToK
Prince FyreDragon 07-20-05, 05:11 PM	Strange question I'm sure, but: If I wanted to craft some Adamantine Full Plate Barding for my warhorse, what would its market price be? a) (1500+15000)*2 = 33000gp market price - 16500gp to craft or b) 1500*2+15000 = 18000gp market price - 9000gp to craft Of course, this is the most extreme example - but it provides all of the information necessary I believe. (and yes, I'm assuming it is option a - I'm just curious). Armor for a horse (a Large nonhumanoid creature) costs four times as much as armor for a human (a Medium humanoid creature) and also weighs twice as much as the armor found on Table: Armor and Shields (see Armor for Unusual Creatures)[/B] Emphasis mine. We know that a suit of adamantine full plate for a human costs 1500 + 15,000 = 16,500. We then take the large animal multiplier in to account (x4) to arrive at a full price cost of 66,000 and then half of that for crafting would be 33,000 gp to craft adamantine full plate barding for a warhorse. At least, that is what I come up with.
TelinArtho 07-20-05, 05:18 PM	Oops - forgot it was x4 not x2... man that's some expensive barding, I guess my fighter won't be making it any time soon...
Salrantol 07-20-05, 05:18 PM	I usually just pick one of the starting boxes, pick my starting point there, and put "or equivalent" after it. For example, if the North square is your starting square: I want to start in the center point closest to the central obstacle in my starting square. - You would start at the southern most central point of your starting square. That would be (0, 22) or equivalent. I want to start directly behind the rock that is on my left side when I face the central obstacle. - You would start directly north of the rock in the eastern part of the starting square. That would be (-4, 22) or equivalent. Just as a couple of examples.
Altaris13 07-20-05, 05:55 PM	Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification Sal!
TelinArtho 07-20-05, 08:57 PM	@Pauper - tried sending you a PM to discuss tactics for our fight, but you seem to have them turned off. Want to discuss? /d
nightbanegod 07-20-05, 09:52 PM	hey all sup.... well just thought id mention my cool sig .. and look for suggestions since it accidentally went over soo well in the thread for july 20th fights... ive already added in the hitler one... out with amelia ... she sucked anyways... thinkin maybe addin more than 10 tho for a good full list .. ill have to make it a spoiler instead now.. :(
TelinArtho 07-20-05, 10:06 PM	SInce it appears that my opponent has already sent his tactics (as have I), it is time to commence trash-talking... Denth the Summoner's followers will destroy all who come in their way! (found painted on the side of a building near the arena) Let the summoned armies wash over the uncleansed (someone shouting in the background)
nightbanegod 07-20-05, 10:43 PM	alas i fear i may have botched how much HP i have ... how does one figure HP in this CoCo
Jh316 07-20-05, 11:02 PM	It says that a mind blade can be manifested on the next move action. Does that mean it can be manifested while moving like a weapon can be drawn if BAB is +1 or higher?
Sindorin 07-20-05, 11:12 PM	edit: never mind i miscounted...
Deadly Assassin 07-21-05, 12:30 AM	alas i fear i may have botched how much HP i have ... how does one figure HP in this CoCo Fist level is the max HD +con mod and each level is half the HD +.5 + con mod. Example: Lvl 3 rogue, con mod=+2: 6+3.5+3.5+6=19 HP. Understand?
Pete278 07-21-05, 03:56 AM	Ok another question. Can I reuse caltrops after I throw them?
Pittbull 07-21-05, 04:01 AM	Ok another question. Can I reuse caltrops after I throw them? Yes, in arena-battles without a problem!
Pete278 07-21-05, 04:29 AM	Cool. Ok, I just finished my character and he's posted. Can someone tell me if it is all right?
Altaris13 07-21-05, 09:39 AM	It says that a mind blade can be manifested on the next move action. Does that mean it can be manifested while moving like a weapon can be drawn if BAB is +1 or higher? That's how I've always treated it while DMing. Though I don't have my XPH handy at the moment, I do recall interpreting the Mindblade to be treated in all respects like a standard weapon (excepting MW & magical enhancements.)
TelinArtho 07-21-05, 10:11 AM	@Pete278 - changes that need to be made to your sheet have been posted in the Character Violations thread.
Deadly Assassin 07-21-05, 04:12 PM	If Ormos (my half-giant monk) were to use gauntlets, would they count as medium weapons or large weapons because of a half-giants racial Powerful Build trait? Also, if I fight unarmed using both hands with a monk, do I incur the normal penalties for fighting with two weapons, even though monks are considered not to have an off hand when unarmed?
Deadly Assassin 07-21-05, 04:43 PM	Also, is an item made of deep crystal considered masterworked?
Gonbow 07-21-05, 04:51 PM	If Ormos (my half-giant monk) were to use gauntlets, would they count as medium weapons or large weapons because of a half-giants racial Powerful Build trait? Also, if I fight unarmed using both hands with a monk, do I incur the normal penalties for fighting with two weapons, even though monks are considered not to have an off hand when unarmed? Medium weapons, the situations Powerful Build applies in were specifically lined out in the ability. Yes, you suffer normal penalties for fighting with two weapons when you gain an extra attack by fighting with your 'off hand'. And the strength penalty is lowered to one half as well; See my character Santos if you want an example of how it works on a level 1 monk.
Deadly Assassin 07-21-05, 04:55 PM	Medium weapons, the situations Powerful Build applies in were specifically lined out in the ability. Yes, you suffer normal penalties for fighting with two weapons when you gain an extra attack by fighting with your 'off hand'. And the strength penalty is lowered to one half as well; See my character Santos if you want an example of how it works on a level 1 monk. Well, for Powerful Build, it says that weapons of the next larger size can be wielded. So I was wondering if that applied to gauntlets as well. A monk has no "off hand," so your answer contradicts itself. Also, What do you mean by strength penalty? SRD: "A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet...There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes." And remember, I already have a monk...Ormos. And this got skipped over: Also, is an item made of deep crystal considered masterworked?
Gonbow 07-21-05, 05:11 PM	If there is a line that cause more confusion in 3.5, I have yet to find it. Basically, what that is supposed to tell us, is that monks, when attacking normally, do not suffer a strength penalty if they for some reason want to use a hand other than their 'on' hand. Nor do they suffer it for headbutting, kicking, etc. In 3.0, the line also doubled for the reason why monks could not use unarmed strikes as off-hand attacks. However, that particular restriction has been lifted. The penalty for attacking with two weapons has not. Whatever weapon is not your primary weapon suffers the strength penalty. Unless of course, the Elders decide to interpret it differently, in which case we shall all bow to their wisdom. I provided the example because that is how I perceive this particular set of rules to work, and as of yet, no one has challenged me on it. And yeah, Half-Giants can attack with Large weapons, and they could probably pick up a pair of large gauntlets and swing them around, but I don't think they would be able to wear them effectively. Which is probably what you wanted to do, neh?
Deadly Assassin 07-21-05, 05:29 PM	If there is a line that cause more confusion in 3.5, I have yet to find it. Basically, what that is supposed to tell us, is that monks, when attacking normally, do not suffer a strength penalty if they for some reason want to use a hand other than their 'on' hand. Nor do they suffer it for headbutting, kicking, etc. In 3.0, the line also doubled for the reason why monks could not use unarmed strikes as off-hand attacks. However, that particular restriction has been lifted. The penalty for attacking with two weapons has not. Whatever weapon is not your primary weapon suffers the strength penalty. Unless of course, the Elders decide to interpret it differently, in which case we shall all bow to their wisdom. I provided the example because that is how I perceive this particular set of rules to work, and as of yet, no one has challenged me on it. And yeah, Half-Giants can attack with Large weapons, and they could probably pick up a pair of large gauntlets and swing them around, but I don't think they would be able to wear them effectively. Which is probably what you wanted to do, neh? Ok, I guess I misunderstood two-weapon fighting...Let me rephrase my question. TWF says that a light weapon in the off hand reduces both penalties by two, and an unarmed attack is considered light. So the penalties w/o the TWF feat are -4 and -8. Since a monk has no off hand, would each attack get the -4 penalty when using both hands to fight? And if a Half-Giant can wield a large weapon w/o penalty, why wouldn't they be able to wield gauntlets as large weapons as well?
Jindl 07-21-05, 05:33 PM	If Ormos (my half-giant monk) were to use gauntlets, would they count as medium weapons or large weapons because of a half-giants racial Powerful Build trait? Also, if I fight unarmed using both hands with a monk, do I incur the normal penalties for fighting with two weapons, even though monks are considered not to have an off hand when unarmed? Your half-giant could wear large guantlets. However, guantlets are not a monk weapon, so your half-giant monk could not flurry while using guantlets. Guantlets, like any weapon, only deal Strx0.5 damage when used as an offhand attack. A monk's unarmed strike (even when flurrying) is not an offhand attack and deals Strx1 damage. If a monk were to use TWF feat to gain an offhand attack with an unarmed strike (even when flurrying), it would deal Strx0.5 damage as normal for an offhand strike. -Jindl
Deadly Assassin 07-21-05, 05:46 PM	Your half-giant could wear large guantlets. However, guantlets are not a monk weapon, so your half-giant monk could not flurry while using guantlets. Guantlets, like any weapon, only deal Strx0.5 damage when used as an offhand attack. A monk's unarmed strike (even when flurrying) is not an offhand attack and deals Strx1 damage. If a monk were to use TWF feat to gain an offhand attack with an unarmed strike (even when flurrying), it would deal Strx0.5 damage as normal for an offhand strike. -Jindl But that still didn't answer my question. My monk doesn't have the TWF feat, so would fighting with two weapons give both attacks -4, or would they be -4 and -8?
Gonbow 07-21-05, 06:00 PM	-4 and -8 respectively. If you normally have +5 +5 or +3/+3 (flurry) or +1/-3 (two weapons) or -1/-1/-5 (flurry and two weapons for -6/-6/-10)
nightbanegod 07-21-05, 06:23 PM	congratulations man... you do get another off hand attack with the two weapons but i doubt if you even hit AC 10 base.. good luck with that!!! :D
nightbanegod 07-21-05, 06:42 PM	wow the excitement... i got my first tactics to my first fight sent in and i fully intend to squish the ranger like the fragile non half giant he is!!! well someone else already said its time to get the trash talking on so im just gettin my share " Just :surrender !! you know you cant win!!! " chanted around his local hang out
King Uther 07-21-05, 09:23 PM	I would just like to share that I have the first character in COCO history who killed an innocent boy simply because he was standing on a fireball trap. Shot him right in the face after he asked for help. I would feel bad, but I really just don't. It all happened here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6753834&postcount=44)
Gonbow 07-21-05, 09:48 PM	I would just like to share that I have the first character in COCO history who killed an innocent boy simply because he was standing on a fireball trap. Shot him right in the face after he asked for help. I would feel bad, but I really just don't. It all happened here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6753834&postcount=44) Not too shabby, but I've seen (slighty) worse, IRL. Details spoilered if you don't particularly want to hear about it. It was a four person campaign (including the DM, who didn't have a character). In the days of second edition actually. We had two fighters, one of eleventh level (merchant house night, very... smary), the other of seventh level (my character, a squire to said knight and possessing the Peasant Hero kit) and a level 9 conjurer/psionicist (bad to the bone, and then some). In our last 'crawl', we had sacked the tower of a powerful magi, killing first a progammed image of him, then the magi himself (we were very, very nasty, for 2nd edition games, anyways). Later, heading north away from the tower, we see a page boy, who stops and asks us directions to said tower. The conjurer impersonates the mage of the tower quite easily and receives the message, then pulls the level 11 fighter aside for a moment. (They talk ICly about what to do with the boy, agree he can't be allowed to leave) Returning, the fighter asks the page boy for a paper and quill so he may write a return message; and a writing surface, the boy's back. Obediantly, the boy turns around, the mage nudges the fighter to finish him off, but the fighter (true neutral) shakes his head. So the mage drives a dagger into the back of the boys head. The DM was a bit... upset. The players explained that the page couldn't be allowed to go back to his master, as he would have a description of us, and thus, the master would know that his mage ally had been slain, but it was all pretty brutal nonetheless. Of course, this incident would have been nothing compared to the sheer acts of horror we bestowed upon the world when we actually played evil characters as opposed to neutral ones, but they are less shocking because they were more or less expected, as opposed to efficiently mercenary in nature.
Altaris13 07-22-05, 09:36 AM	Not too shabby, but I've seen (slighty) worse, IRL. Details spoilered if you don't particularly want to hear about it. It was a four person campaign (including the DM, who didn't have a character). In the days of second edition actually. We had two fighters, one of eleventh level (merchant house night, very... smary), the other of seventh level (my character, a squire to said knight and possessing the Peasant Hero kit) and a level 9 conjurer/psionicist (bad to the bone, and then some). In our last 'crawl', we had sacked the tower of a powerful magi, killing first a progammed image of him, then the magi himself (we were very, very nasty, for 2nd edition games, anyways). Later, heading north away from the tower, we see a page boy, who stops and asks us directions to said tower. The conjurer impersonates the mage of the tower quite easily and receives the message, then pulls the level 11 fighter aside for a moment. (They talk ICly about what to do with the boy, agree he can't be allowed to leave) Returning, the fighter asks the page boy for a paper and quill so he may write a return message; and a writing surface, the boy's back. Obediantly, the boy turns around, the mage nudges the fighter to finish him off, but the fighter (true neutral) shakes his head. So the mage drives a dagger into the back of the boys head. The DM was a bit... upset. The players explained that the page couldn't be allowed to go back to his master, as he would have a description of us, and thus, the master would know that his mage ally had been slain, but it was all pretty brutal nonetheless. Of course, this incident would have been nothing compared to the sheer acts of horror we bestowed upon the world when we actually played evil characters as opposed to neutral ones, but they are less shocking because they were more or less expected, as opposed to efficiently mercenary in nature. Heh. That's not bad. Bad is when you fireball your own party to kill your own cohort because you think he is demon-possessed and going to betray your arcane secrets in some distant future. ;) That was a neutral dwarf wizard. I failed a powers' check for that one.
Caterane 07-22-05, 12:38 PM	@all Campaignlords: Just received a PM about scaling ELs of Campaigns, and I want to clarify it here: The EL posted on the Campaign Roster or behind the Campaign Name is only the Starting EL. Once the party becomes stronger, so do the baddies. Campaignlords need to increase the difficulty appropriately.
Altaris13 07-22-05, 12:45 PM	How can I copy/paste an arena map so that I can print it out on paper?
Caterane 07-22-05, 12:47 PM	Copy the <code> map into a word sheet and resize it until it fits.
Altaris13 07-22-05, 12:48 PM	Oh..... Cool. Thanks Cat!!! :D
Sindorin 07-22-05, 02:04 PM	I've found that a better alternative was to take the actual image that someone made and print that out. It looks really good, and you don't have to deal with the numbes or letters that come with the code. My mind just doesn't work that way and i get a headache from staring at code a lot. Seeing an arena made via dungeoncrafter makes it a lot more readable.
Prince FyreDragon 07-22-05, 02:39 PM	Can I get someone who is as nitpicky as I am to pour over my two characters ready for next week, Elb Foraker and Preia Sterle? I made some significant changes to them both, and could definitely use a second set of eyes to make sure every thing is on the up and up.
Caterane 07-22-05, 02:57 PM	...or you do it like WizO_Shadow (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4532184) LOL That was sooo awesome!
Prince FyreDragon 07-22-05, 03:06 PM	What level do I have to be to be able to summon that gargantuan cat? LMAO
TelinArtho 07-22-05, 03:06 PM	You don't have to alude to me so indirectly - I'll be happy to look them over: Elb - looks fine to me, though your craft skills don't make use of your intelligence bonus... Also it might be good to mention that you are choosing the Dwarven Waraxe as the favored weapon (I know it - but it might be a source of confusion later...). Preia - couple of things: 1. You can't use a spear and a shield at the same time - a spear is a two-handed weapon. You could use a short spear - but that would do 1d6 damage. 2. Your skill points used for hide and move silently weren't applied correctly (you spent 3 CC points on each and got 3 ranks each - you should only have 1.5 ranks in each). 3. You have also allocated 36 total skill points out of 30 points possible. Have fun with that... /d
GuardianAngel 07-22-05, 03:31 PM	Ok in the moster manuel on the Pseudodragon as a possible familir for a person, Now how would I have to go about to get this for a Spellcaster's Familiar. If you could list the options, as of right now I am thinking I would have to do a quest for it correct? Would their be any other way. Also I wanted to know would I be allowed to go negitive on credits but will get them back next week? (Just read about Pitlording and I want to do it, but this week is shot.) Let's see....Oh can I have one of my characters make an item for another one of my character If said character paid for the cost out her money? The two characters in question would be married if that helps or confuses anyone any more. One more thing sorry to be a newb about this, i am sure dozens of people have asked these questions before.
Cerebus13 07-22-05, 03:43 PM	Ok in the moster manuel on the Pseudodragon as a possible familir for a person, Now how would I have to go about to get this for a Spellcaster's Familiar. If you could list the options, as of right now I am thinking I would have to do a quest for it correct? Would their be any other way. Also I wanted to know would I be allowed to go negitive on credits but will get them back next week? (Just read about Pitlording and I want to do it, but this week is shot.) Let's see....Oh can I have one of my characters make an item for another one of my character If said character paid for the cost out her money? The two characters in question would be married if that helps or confuses anyone any more. One more thing sorry to be a newb about this, i am sure dozens of people have asked these questions before.Get a DMG and read up on the Improved Familiar feat. It opens access to a larger range of more exotic familiars based on your levels in an arcane spellcasting class. Pseudodragons can be picked up at 7th level, so unless you have some credits it is going to take a while to get one.
Prince FyreDragon 07-22-05, 03:55 PM	You don't have to alude to me so indirectly - I'll be happy to look them over: Elb - looks fine to me, though your craft skills don't make use of your intelligence bonus... Also it might be good to mention that you are choosing the Dwarven Waraxe as the favored weapon (I know it - but it might be a source of confusion later...). Preia - couple of things: 1. You can't use a spear and a shield at the same time - a spear is a two-handed weapon. You could use a short spear - but that would do 1d6 damage. 2. Your skill points used for hide and move silently weren't applied correctly (you spent 3 CC points on each and got 3 ranks each - you should only have 1.5 ranks in each). 3. You have also allocated 36 total skill points out of 30 points possible. Have fun with that... /d Didn't necessarily mean to point at you, per se....just you or someone like you LOL Made the update to Elb you suggested. For Preia: 1. Doh! That's why I asked....downgraded to a darkwood buckler. 2-3. I actually had my total skill points available listed wrong....I spent them correctly just didn't have the total correct. I also edited the cc skills as I forgot how we were supposed to list cc skills....the totals should all be accurate now. Danke for the review.
Altaris13 07-22-05, 04:00 PM	...or you do it like WizO_Shadow (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4532184) LOL That was sooo awesome! Wowser... Sounds like it was a cool couple of characters too. Peter was/is a Thaumaturge?
Beldin 07-22-05, 04:21 PM	he is. Their level 15 versions are still on the rooster.
Meek Head 07-22-05, 05:06 PM	Is a magical beast affected by the Hide from Animals spell? Mainly vs. a familiar.
Cerebus13 07-22-05, 05:16 PM	Is a magical beast affected by the Hide from Animals spell? Mainly vs. a familiar.Nope, only creatures with the type "Animal" are affected. Familiars are type "Magical Beast" so they are home free.
nightbanegod 07-22-05, 06:13 PM	WHOA WHOA WHOA .... i got a MAJOR beef with my battle with mythos and i want to know to who and how do i complain and try to get this rectified for example .... mythos's DC 15 spot check to see an invisible person....
Altaris13 07-22-05, 06:15 PM	What happens when a medium character uses a large weapon with reach? The reach weapon gives them a total reach of 10 feet, 2 squares. Does a large version add another 5foot square? Also, I know I couldn't use it here in the CoCo, but does Monkey Grip stack with Powerful Build? IE, could a Half-giant use a Huge Greatsword at the -2 penalty?
Altaris13 07-22-05, 06:17 PM	WHOA WHOA WHOA .... i got a MAJOR beef with my battle with mythos and i want to know to who and how do i complain and try to get this rectified for example .... mythos's DC 15 spot check to see an invisible person.... As I understand it, you should post your concerns here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=467794&page=3)
Vallah 07-22-05, 08:09 PM	Can someone plase tell me where I can find the "Hall of fame". I feel the need for a little inspiration. Thanks :plotting:
Deadly Assassin 07-22-05, 08:54 PM	Can someone plase tell me where I can find the "Hall of fame". I feel the need for a little inspiration. Thanks :plotting: There's the Gladius Graveyard (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179902), and there's the characters with "[OLD]" next to them in the Characters thread. Other than that, I wouldn't know where to look.
King Uther 07-23-05, 01:16 AM	@ Vallah Here is the old World of Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=278068) thread. It has a list of many old characters and stories. Other than that, look in the characters thread for the higher level older characters.
Pitlords 07-23-05, 04:39 AM	Can someone plase tell me where I can find the "Hall of fame". I feel the need for a little inspiration. Thanks :plotting: The Link is in the first post of the Characters of Gladius thread.
Jh316 07-23-05, 08:25 AM	What do I do if the Spot check matches the Hide check? Re-roll?
Caterane 07-23-05, 09:43 AM	What do I do if the Spot check matches the Hide check? Re-roll? No. THe Hide check sets the DC and the Spotter needs to pass it. If it is even, the sneaker has been spotted.
Gonbow 07-23-05, 10:23 AM	Given the impressive pricetag placed on Custom Items, I want to get this right before I attempt such; Can the descriptive element of a wonderous item be changed if it retains the same body slot/weight/cost/etc? I.E: Changing a Cloak of Resistance into a Mantle of Resistance. Both take up the 'over-body' slot, if I recall correctly. (As opposed to the Vest of Resistance from a few thousand different books, which takes up the 'Shirt' slot, and is for some reason more expensive than the Cloak).
Deadly Assassin 07-23-05, 10:51 AM	Question: Do damage bonuses stack? Like from Psionic Weapon and from Deep Crystal weapons (for a total of +4d6)?
Altaris13 07-23-05, 11:10 AM	<snip> - who tried to <snip> before the starting signal rang - ignored the electroshock s/he received for trying to violate arena law LOL!!! That's just hilarious!!! The arena has electroshock inhibitors!!! :D
Vathelokai 07-23-05, 11:52 AM	Shan the Lizardman (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=468061) tries to snipe with a 100 lb. crate. :rofl: Now that's entertainment.
Deadly Assassin 07-23-05, 12:10 PM	Shan the Lizardman (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=468061) tries to snipe with a 100 lb. crate. :rofl: Now that's entertainment. Hey, there's no penalty for it, is there? Also, would someone check out my new character (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6741461#post6741461)?
Vathelokai 07-23-05, 12:27 PM	I'm not saying it's against the rules; I'm saying it's brilliant! As for the character: Deep crystal is automaticly masterworks, so you have overpaid for your weapons. The rest looks straight.
Gonbow 07-23-05, 12:42 PM	Comments spoilered, ask and you shall receive. Abilities: Strength – 17 [+3] Dexterity – 12 [+1] Constitution – 10 [+1] Intelligence – 16 [+3] Wisdom – 14 [+2] Charisma – 9 [-1] Might want to include the point costs for your stats... so people don't have to calculate it when they are checking :P HP: 17 (8+4.5+4.5+3) Ergh. Small font, no spaces... that is REALLY hard to read. Put spaces before the +'s or something, please? ^_^ Skills: Autohypnosis +9 (+5 ranks, +2 wis, +2 synergy-Concentration) Concentration +6 (+5 ranks, +1 con) Craft (Bowmaking) +10 (+5 ranks, +3 int, +2 tools) Craft (Weaponsmithing) +10 (+5 ranks, +3 int, +2 tools) Escape Artist +5 (+4 ranks, +2 dex) Hide +5 (+4 ranks, +1 dex) Jump +9 (+6 ranks, +3 str) Knowledge (Psionics) +9 (+4 ranks, +3 int, +2 synergy-Autohypnosis) Move Silently +5 (+4 ranks, +1 dex) Search +5 (+5 ranks, +2 wis) Tumble +7 (+4 ranks, +1 dex, +2 synergy-Jump) You should have the total number of skill points from each class noted somewhere; again, saves loads of time calculating. Which class is first is also vital here to determine skillpoints and multiclass options. I'll even break down your skill sources for you: Intelligence = 18 Human = 6 Psychic warrior = 10 or 4 Monk = 16 or 4 Naturally, the first number is if they are the first class, the second one if they are the second class. Feats: Improved Grapple Improved Unarmed Strike Open Minded Psionic Fist Psionic Weapon Speed of Thought Wild Talent Which ones are psychic warrior feats? Which ones is the human feat? Level feats? Since you seem to be taking monk level first, your Human and first level feat cannot be psionic, unless the other one is Wild Talent, which you seem to have done, but outline what when and where is important ;) Of course, for all my nit-picking, I don't see anything mechanically wrong. And on a completely unrelated note. Is it just me or is there something terribly wrong about having the highest power rating in the ECL 3 bracket only after one fight? Viva la SANTOS! Hee hee. I should apply to EHTC or something.
Vathelokai 07-23-05, 12:47 PM	Also, remember that if your first lv was Monk and you've taken 2 psi-warrior lvs, then you can never advance as a monk again. :noway:
Gonbow 07-23-05, 12:50 PM	Also, remember that if your first lv was Monk and you've taken 2 psi-warrior lvs, then you can never advance as a monk again. :noway: Yeah, if I was going to go Monk -> Psy-war, I'd probably take 2 or 4 levels of monk. Maybe 6 if I wanted improved trip. I'd probably play a psionic race to get access to a few psionic feats in the mean-time though. Half-giant is particularly applicable due to their ungodly grappling abilities that are only augmented by monk and psychic warrior stuff. Lord take pity on Santos when he comes up against a REAL grappler :P
Vathelokai 07-23-05, 01:02 PM	Funny, that is almost the exact progression I am working on for Jodan Desho (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6667781). Almost.
Zerone 07-23-05, 01:33 PM	What is required to replace a feat that you have never used? *•. Z
Deadly Assassin 07-23-05, 02:13 PM	Comments spoilered, ask and you shall receive. Abilities: Strength – 17 [+3] Dexterity – 12 [+1] Constitution – 10 [+1] Intelligence – 16 [+3] Wisdom – 14 [+2] Charisma – 9 [-1] Might want to include the point costs for your stats... so people don't have to calculate it when they are checking :P HP: 17 (8+4.5+4.5+3) Ergh. Small font, no spaces... that is REALLY hard to read. Put spaces before the +'s or something, please? ^_^ Skills: Autohypnosis +9 (+5 ranks, +2 wis, +2 synergy-Concentration) Concentration +6 (+5 ranks, +1 con) Craft (Bowmaking) +10 (+5 ranks, +3 int, +2 tools) Craft (Weaponsmithing) +10 (+5 ranks, +3 int, +2 tools) Escape Artist +5 (+4 ranks, +2 dex) Hide +5 (+4 ranks, +1 dex) Jump +9 (+6 ranks, +3 str) Knowledge (Psionics) +9 (+4 ranks, +3 int, +2 synergy-Autohypnosis) Move Silently +5 (+4 ranks, +1 dex) Search +5 (+5 ranks, +2 wis) Tumble +7 (+4 ranks, +1 dex, +2 synergy-Jump) You should have the total number of skill points from each class noted somewhere; again, saves loads of time calculating. Which class is first is also vital here to determine skillpoints and multiclass options. I'll even break down your skill sources for you: Intelligence = 18 Human = 6 Psychic warrior = 10 or 4 Monk = 16 or 4 Naturally, the first number is if they are the first class, the second one if they are the second class. Feats: Improved Grapple Improved Unarmed Strike Open Minded Psionic Fist Psionic Weapon Speed of Thought Wild Talent Which ones are psychic warrior feats? Which ones is the human feat? Level feats? Since you seem to be taking monk level first, your Human and first level feat cannot be psionic, unless the other one is Wild Talent, which you seem to have done, but outline what when and where is important ;) Of course, for all my nit-picking, I don't see anything mechanically wrong. How do you figure I took the monk class first? I actually took 2 lvls in PsyWar first, and both classes have the same hd. I would have 24 points for lvl 1 (20 plus 4 human), 6 for lvl 2 (5 plus 1 human) and 8 for lvl 3 (7 plus 1 human). As for the character: Deep crystal is automaticly masterworks, so you have overpaid for your weapons. The rest looks straight. No its not. Look at the description. It doesn't say anywhere in there that deep crystal is auto-masterwork. ;) Yeah, if I was going to go Monk -> Psy-war, I'd probably take 2 or 4 levels of monk. Maybe 6 if I wanted improved trip. I'd probably play a psionic race to get access to a few psionic feats in the mean-time though. Half-giant is particularly applicable due to their ungodly grappling abilities that are only augmented by monk and psychic warrior stuff. Lord take pity on Santos when he comes up against a REAL grappler :P Like Ormos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6530121&postcount=314)? :P
Pittbull 07-23-05, 02:17 PM	What is required to replace a feat that you have never used? *•. Z Just tell us what you want to change, if you've never used this feat, it should be no problem.
LLMadCow 07-23-05, 03:12 PM	Also, is an item made of deep crystal considered masterworked? Yes, an item made of Deep Crystal is considered masterwork, because.... Crystal, Deep: Deep crystal is crystal of above-average quality found at the hearts of large veins or deposits of mundane crystal (see below) ... Any weapon made of deep crystal costs 1,000 gp more than its noncrystal counterpart. And... Crystal, Mundane: Mundane crystal can be used in place of metal in weapons or armor, using a special forging process. The fortified crystal possesses the properties of a similar masterwork steel weapon or armor, except for visual appearance. Weapons and armor made of mundane crystal cost the same amount to make as their masterwork counterparts.
nightbanegod 07-23-05, 03:14 PM	i got a question about spell books... how do you or can you even add additional spells to your spell book above and beyond the normal bonus spells every level in wizard?
Vathelokai 07-23-05, 03:35 PM	You can get more 1st lv spells by buying the scroll (25gp each) then transcribe them to to your spell book (100gp per page materials.) For 2nd lv+ Gladius has a special (cheeper) service for copying spells from the wizard's guild (50gp x spell lv) plus the 100gp per page in materials. The pages that a spell takes up is equel to it's spell lv. So 1st lv=125gp each, 2nd lv=200gp each, 3rd lv=250gp each
LLMadCow 07-23-05, 03:43 PM	i got a question about spell books... how do you or can you even add additional spells to your spell book above and beyond the normal bonus spells every level in wizard? Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook Once a wizard understands a new spell, she can record it into her spellbook. Time: The process takes 24 hours, regardless of the spell’s level. Space in the Spellbook: A spell takes up one page of the spellbook per spell level. Even a 0-level spell (cantrip) takes one page. A spellbook has one hundred pages. Materials and Costs: Materials for writing the spell cost 100 gp per page. Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for the spells she gains for free at each new level. And.... Copying Spellbooks: Most wizards who want to learn new spells and scribe them into their own spellbook seek out other wizards and copy the spells into their spellbooks ...for a fee. A wizard charges 50 gp x the spell's level for letting you copy one of his spells. Alternatively, a character may buy a scroll and copy the spell from there but this is only worthwhile in case of a 1st level spell.
Deadly Assassin 07-23-05, 03:50 PM	If you're going to quote the SRD, read the entire entry you quote. Weapons and armor made of mundane crystal cost the same amount to make as their masterwork counterparts. Mundane is different from deep crystal. Edit: Nevermind
nightbanegod 07-23-05, 04:02 PM	ok do i go with Vathelokai's post on the guild or do i go with LLMadCow's SRD quote..... secondly i wanted to know about crafting... what craft skill do you need to craft wonderous items?... for skill rank purposes and i know i read it somewhere in gladius rules before but i cant seem to find it now... how much higher lvl scrolls can you have than you are caster lvl?
Vathelokai 07-23-05, 04:10 PM	LLMadCow's quote does not include the part about having to find a copy of the new spell in the first place. You can either buy a scroll or pay the scribe fee (bottom box of LL's post). Otherwise, both posts have the same content. The only other way of finding scrolls or spellbooks is to go on a quest. As for crafts: You need the appropriate Item Creation Feat. Then you have to craft a masterwork item to enchant. Craft rolls in Gladius are always 'take 10' so you need a +10 modifier to meet the DC20. 2 of those usually come from masterwork tools(55gp) but the other+8 comes from intellegence and skill ranks. Scroll can be +2 to your ECL. For starting char. that means you can buy a scroll with a third lv spell, but not a 4th lv spell.
LLMadCow 07-23-05, 04:16 PM	ok do i go with Vathelokai's post on the guild or do i go with LLMadCow's SRD quote..... secondly i wanted to know about crafting... what craft skill do you need to craft wonderous items?... for skill rank purposes and i know i read it somewhere in gladius rules before but i cant seem to find it now... how much higher lvl scrolls can you have than you are caster lvl? For starters, Vathelokai and I agree with each other. I just quoted everything for more exact details. If you read through both of the quotes I made, from the SRD and the Gladius Rules, you will be able to see how the align with Vathelokai. In regard to Crafting a Wonderous Item, technically all you need is the Feat. When it comes down to the actual application of the feat, one can assume that the gold price may include the cost of purchasing such mundane aspects of crafting. A quiver of Elhonna may require a Masterwork Quiver. A ring of Protection may require a masterwork ring. So long as you meet the requirements listed in the DMG. Scrolls can be purchased at your CL +2. LL
LLMadCow 07-23-05, 04:25 PM	LLMadCow's quote does not include the part about having to find a copy of the new spell in the first place. :P It was implied. Once a wizard understands a new spell The only way to understand a new spell is to memorize it from a new source: A) a borrowed spellbook, B) a scroll, C) a divine intervention, D) some sarcastic reply.
nightbanegod 07-23-05, 04:27 PM	thanks to both of you for the help... im working on a wizard who should be good to go for next wednesdays fights... its alright to run 2 characters ..just not more than that so i should be cool.... and i dearly hope this wizard has a better opening debut than my half giant did
Vathelokai 07-23-05, 04:40 PM	Tip for starting mages: The save DC on scrolls is always the min. that it can possibly be. (example: a first lv scroll of sleep could be made by an int11 caster, so it's will save is 11) Spells cast by you have the normal DC, so it is best to memorize stuff with saves (sleep, ray of enfeeblement) and put personal spells (true strike, obscuring mist) on scrolls. 1st lv scrolls you make are only 12.5gp; one of the best bargins in the game. Also, make sure you know what 1/3 of the spell lvs means.
nightbanegod 07-23-05, 05:05 PM	i know what the 1/3 spell lvls means and i think it kinda blows that it doesnt take into account cantrips but hey w/e... good advise on the saves DC but what about scrolls you scribe... your dc or lowest possible since currently im looking at 20 INT for my 3rd lvl character.....i dont want to get robbed on my dc to saves for other people...also you should also point out that spells without saves are just dandy in scroll form .. like magic missle !!! BEWARE..... on a side note... is the arena shadowy or bright light for purposes of skill benifits from familars... owls and hawks respectively and i thought once your 3rd lvl that a scroll would cost 37.5... if your 3rd caster lvl assuming you want it to be a 3rd caster lvl spell
Vathelokai 07-23-05, 05:32 PM	Even scrolls you scribe use the lowest save DC. The only way around it is the heighten spell metamagic. Even feats like spell focus don't effect it, because they effect the caster and not the spell itself. Also remember that you can have up to 6 spells on one scroll; walking into an arena with 50 scrolls on your belt might turn the heads of some pitlords, since you probably don't have quickdraw. Since scrolls are always the min. caster lv and min int bonus, even if you are 10th lv a first lv scroll still costs 12.5gp. Again, heighten spell is the only escape. As for the arena, it makes an attempt to be as neutral as possible. The lighting is bright enough that the humans can see as far as the elves. There is no wind, so creatures with scent do not get and upwind bonus. The floor always provides perfect traction. Basicly, it's set up so that there are as few environmental/circumstantial bonuses as possible.
nightbanegod 07-23-05, 06:00 PM	under the scribe scroll feat ... caster lvl is a factor in the price Item Cost: Brew Potion, Craft Wand, and Scribe Scroll create items that directly reproduce spell effects, and the power of these items depends on their caster level—that is, a spell from such an item has the power it would have if cast by a spellcaster of that level. The price of these items (and thus the XP cost and the cost of the raw materials) also depends on the caster level. The caster level must be high enough that the spellcaster creating the item can cast the spell at that level. To find the final price in each case, multiply the caster level by the spell level, then multiply the result by a constant, as shown below: Scrolls: Base price = spell level x caster level x 25 gp. heighten spell not being mentioned once in this particular tidbit on item creation and if you can NEVER have a scroll operate as a higher caster lvl then any character other than a 1st lvl caster is getting robbed on the costs and exp costs since HIS caster lvl is part of the formula... true however that he can OPT to have a lower caster lvl to the minimum requirement of the given spell .. but for spells like magic missle or any spell with a duration that have greater effects at higher caster lvls this may not be the case... so your saying that a higher lvl caster cannot EVER create a scroll of magic missle and have that scroll produce more than 1 magic missle since that is the maximum amount of missles you get at the MINIMUM caster lvl for that scroll ... if im reading what your saying is correct... would just like this resolved before i go about scribing scrolls of magic missle or scorching ray and then have them fall flat since i dont get the extra missles or rays from them at higher caster lvls like if i had prepared them and cast them from memory... [edit] Please be careful with the sensitive nature of racial slurs. They aren't acceptable.
Vathelokai 07-23-05, 06:26 PM	I appologize for not being concise. The above statements only apply to the saving throw. I've always had a beef with the saving throw equation, so I tend to harp on it. As for durration and increased damage from higher caster lv, yes you are completely correct. There are examples of these items in the SRD:magic items:scrolls list. It's just that it is frequently a waste of money, i.e. a durration of 2 hours instead of 1 hour is a waste of money in an arena setting, thus the opt down. But again, you are correct.
TelinArtho 07-23-05, 11:27 PM	Craft - weaponsmithing covers crossbows. Is it reasonable to assume bolts are as well?
nightbanegod 07-24-05, 12:46 AM	thank you for the correction Vathelokai.... i just wanted to double check since i fully plan on scribing scrolls of magic missle and had hoped that i would get 2 missles a scroll from them .. and of course when the time is right scorching ray is gonna cook someone as well but as for the hour you stated as duration i have no doubt that your correct however most of the spells im looking at go by the minute and it seems that 20 rounds instead of 10 rounds could become very important *edit* OK here i go trying to bend the rules in my favor again... soooo.... i read somewhere in the rules section here that the lvl req isnt a req for crafting items.... if this is the case ... i want to know about a lvl 3 wizard taking the craft wand feat and crafting myself a wand ... since i can afford it at half its base price and the exp cost will not drop me below 3000... i dont see the problem with me doing that... any stipulations barring such actions? heres the math on that... spell lvl 1 x caster lvl 3 x 750 = 2250 = 1125 GP & 90 EXP ...
LLMadCow 07-24-05, 02:25 AM	OK here i go trying to bend the rules in my favor again... soooo.... i read somewhere in the rules section here that the lvl req isnt a req for crafting items.... if this is the case ... i want to know about a lvl 3 wizard taking the craft wand feat and crafting myself a wand ... since i can afford it at half its base price and the exp cost will not drop me below 3000... i dont see the problem with me doing that... any stipulations barring such actions? This is not allowed. You are correct in that magic users do not have to meet the CL requirement to craft a magic item, they still MUST meet the level requirement for taking a feat. So, you can take the feat Craft Wand at CL 5, according to the requirements of the feat, and then craft any wand you have the spell ability and gold to craft.
LLMadCow 07-24-05, 02:28 AM	Craft - weaponsmithing covers crossbows. Is it reasonable to assume bolts are as well? Yes. Craft: Weaponsmith allows for the crafting of crossbows and their appropriate ammunition.
Caterane 07-24-05, 05:45 AM	and if you can NEVER have a scroll operate as a higher caster lvl then any character other than a 1st lvl caster is getting jipped on the costs and exp costs since HIS caster lvl is part of the formula... You probably didn't mean it that way but some people might be offended by that. Better leave racial themes out (unless it's a race from the MM :) ). Thanks.
nightbanegod 07-24-05, 10:18 AM	sorry my bad caterane ... just an expression... forgot i had an issue like that back in my school year days ...howabout robbed?
xanadu 07-24-05, 11:51 AM	sorry my bad caterane ... just an expression... forgot i had an issue like that back in my school year days ...howabout robbed? I dunno...some folks out there named Robert might take offense :D
Altaris13 07-24-05, 12:14 PM	You probably didn't mean it that way but some people might be offended by that. Better leave racial themes out (unless it's a race from the MM :) ). Thanks. Jipped is a racial comment? :confused: Also, I've posted a few questions on here and can't find where they were answered. I'd like to work out a second character, and the answers to those questions would help. Would reposting them assist in getting them answered?
Caterane 07-24-05, 12:15 PM	The original comment has been edited out and replaced with jipped by WizO Shadow (see last edited line of that post).
nightbanegod 07-24-05, 12:21 PM	wow the controversy... perhaps in the future i shall try to avoid single word phrases that could possibly be misconstrewed as racial slurs... however i know now that as i say this i will forget since there is just the flow of words that a person uses and doesnt think twice about it due to habbits... but i shall try at the very least!!! and yes *jipped* is a racial slur to gypsies *snicker* this word being the issue i had back in my schoolyear days... not with me personally. it was just brought up in discussion in one of my classes. on an unrelated (less controversial) topic... do you have to have the earth subtype in addition to being a 5th lvl caster to have an earth elemental as a familiar? because i would REALLY like a pet rock!!! :D
Deadly Assassin 07-24-05, 12:26 PM	How much does a tattoo of force screen cost?
Pittbull 07-24-05, 12:34 PM	Tattoo of force screen costs 100gp. 50gp(ML1)x2(personal range)=100gp
Deadly Assassin 07-24-05, 12:34 PM	Thanks.
nightbanegod 07-24-05, 02:01 PM	You can get more 1st lv spells by buying the scroll (25gp each) then transcribe them to to your spell book (100gp per page materials.) For 2nd lv+ Gladius has a special (cheeper) service for copying spells from the wizard's guild (50gp x spell lv) plus the 100gp per page in materials. The pages that a spell takes up is equel to it's spell lv. So 1st lv=125gp each, 2nd lv=200gp each, 3rd lv=250gp each by this math .... shouldnt a spell thats 2nd lvl like scorching ray ... cost 300 gp instead of 200 since its spell lvl x2 = 100 gp + pages used x100=200 for 300 gp? same for 3rd lvl spell..haste...150 gp(spell lvl x50 gp) +300 gp(pages used x 100gp) for 450 gp?
Beldin 07-24-05, 02:24 PM	^^yes
TelinArtho 07-24-05, 02:29 PM	I thought I remember this being discussed, but can't seem to find it right now, so I'm going to have to ask. Are xp penalties going to be applied to a battle in the cases were a multiclass character qualifies (Barb1/Wiz3 where fighter is a preferred class, for instance)? I thought there was some language to the effect that it would be applied to both xp and gp, but can't seem to find the reference right now. Thanks
nightbanegod 07-24-05, 02:32 PM	agreeing with me beldin ? because this makes a big difference in GP expenditures for me at this crucial stage of my career as far as which spells im bringing with me to nuke people with...!!! :D :D also whats the weight of a scroll?.... i only got 6 str so it matters!!! lol :(
LLMadCow 07-24-05, 03:29 PM	wow the controversy... perhaps in the future i shall try to avoid single word phrases that could possibly be misconstrewed as racial slurs... however i know now that as i say this i will forget since there is just the flow of words that a person uses and doesnt think twice about it due to habbits... but i shall try at the very least!!! This is always commendable. I always say it is best to err towards the side of caution. on an unrelated (less controversial) topic... do you have to have the earth subtype in addition to being a 5th lvl caster to have an earth elemental as a familiar? because i would REALLY like a pet rock!!! :D Well, here goes my thought on everything...... IMPROVED FAMILIAR [GENERAL] This feat allows spellcasters to acquire a new familiar from a nonstandard list, but only when they could normally acquire a new familiar. Prerequisites: Ability to acquire a new familiar, compatible alignment, sufficiently high level (see below). Benefit: When choosing a familiar, the creatures listed below (NOT COPIED) are also available to the spellcaster. The spellcaster may choose a familiar with an alignment up to one step away on each of the alignment axes (lawful through chaotic, good through evil). Improved familiars otherwise use the rules for regular familiars, with two exceptions: If the creature’s type is something other than animal, its type does not change; and improved familiars do not gain the ability to speak with other creatures of their kind (although many of them already have the ability to communicate). The list in the table above (NOT COPIED) presents only a few possible improved familiars. Almost any creature of the same general size and power as those on the list makes a suitable familiar. Nor is the master’s alignment the only possible categorization. For instance, improved familiars could be assigned by the master’s creature type or subtype, as shown below (Also, NOT COPIED). Well, according to this, we know that you MUST HAVE the Improved Familiar Feat. After that, there is a broad spectrum of choices for assignment, but Type/Subtype and Alignment are two of the recommended categories for for defining suitability. Just going with these themes, I would allow it IF: you have taken the Improved Familiar Feat, are a 5th level caster and meet one of the THREE following: Alignment of (Lawful-Neutral, Chaotic-Neutral, Neutral-Good, Neutral-Evil or True Neutral) or Wizard Specialist: Conjurer or Earth Type/Subtype. This is just my opinion. The elders may want a say in this, but it isn't a very big deal, IMHO. I hope this helps some. Let me know and I can petition Cat and Crew if you wish. LL
Salzorin 07-24-05, 03:59 PM	Small Earth Elementals are on the list of allowed familiars with the feat Improved Familiar. You have to be within one step on each alignment axis, but neutral is their only restriction... so you can be any alignment actually. You can never have an earth elemental larger than small though... since improved familiar says "Almost any creature of the same general size and power as those on the list makes a suitable familiar." So you have to keep things at about the same size and power. I like air elementals personally... having a 100 ft' perfect fly creature to deliver touch attacks = TEH AWESOME.
nightbanegod 07-24-05, 04:17 PM	but but ... its a PET ROCK!!!! and 2ndly it can pass through the arena floor and basically not be seen untill it delivers its touch attack as well.. and its got a decent chance of hitting with its STR and any comment on the weight of scrolls as per sey how many = 1 lb?
Jindl 07-24-05, 04:44 PM	and any comment on the weight of scrolls as per sey how many = 1 lb? Scrolls are considered to be weightless.
Deadly Assassin 07-24-05, 04:47 PM	Nvm.
Deadly Assassin 07-24-05, 06:19 PM	:ahem: I've got a major problem with targets being pre-assigned in a ffa fight. By doing this, you make each gladiator go something like this, "Ok, I'm going to hunt Guy A while Guy B shoots me in the :censored:, and I can't do jack :censored: about him." In other words, while a gladiator is going after his target, he can't do anything about anybody that's attacking him until his target is dead, and even then, in a 4 person ffa, a gladiator still wouldn't be able to do anything until the next guy was dead. "After killing Milo, Vorag had a new target: Santos. He could not attack Niobe," was Cat's response to my question, "...why did you have Vorag CDG the unconcious combatants instead of going after Niobe first?" Edit: Yes, I just found out that targets were pre-assigned.
Pitlords 07-24-05, 06:25 PM	click
nightbanegod 07-24-05, 07:35 PM	TADA .... one more wizard to turn the arena into a techno lights show!!! Dalamar Ohmsford (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6773785&postcount=366) for your scrutiny of flaws and/or admiration!!!
Deadly Assassin 07-24-05, 07:49 PM	:ahem: I've got a major problem with targets being pre-assigned in a ffa fight. By doing this, you make each gladiator go something like this, "Ok, I'm going to hunt Guy A while Guy B shoots me in the :censored:, and I can't do jack :censored: about him." In other words, while a gladiator is going after his target, he can't do anything about anybody that's attacking him until his target is dead, and even then, in a 4 person ffa, a gladiator still wouldn't be able to do anything until the next guy was dead. "After killing Milo, Vorag had a new target: Santos. He could not attack Niobe," was Cat's response to my question, "...why did you have Vorag CDG the unconcious combatants instead of going after Niobe first?" Edit: Yes, I just found out that targets were pre-assigned. Well, anyone want to respond?
Caterane 07-24-05, 08:02 PM	@DA: Yes I want to respond ...for the third time. :twitch: You have now three options. Either you a) read my original comment in the House of Commons (where you even responded btw) that we are going to change that which I put up long before your post, or you B) click on the link I just posted 3 posts up with the Pitlords Account, or you c) just continue to rant here with censored speech. As for the 'problem' itself: We've a) discussed it for about 2 weeks where you participated b) it's in the Rules of Gladius, and c) I've explained it again on the Fights of the Week thread when I posted the pairings. That's all I can do. :tissue: Edit: If you want to imply that the outcome might be different without that rule I want to point out that you did attack Niobe right away in the first run, and lost. So that wouldn't change anything.
nightbanegod 07-24-05, 08:38 PM	as i said in the house of commons thread ... im all for FFA action and im even more so for the 3 way everyone vs everyone from the get-go... and it was made rather clear in that thread that the options for FFA were still being considered ... so ONE LOSS shouldnt be that big of a deal ... i mean seriously at the end of the day its just a game and life goes on ... if u dont like a character to have a loss restart another character and retire em... good luck making a flawless character
nightbanegod 07-24-05, 09:04 PM	heres a question for yall... what countries are represented in the CoCo? ... im just wondering who my wizard is gonna put the hurt on... :D
Deadly Assassin 07-25-05, 01:36 AM	@DA: Yes I want to respond ...for the third time. :twitch: You have now three options. Either you a) read my original comment in the House of Commons (where you even responded btw) that we are going to change that which I put up long before your post, or you B) click on the link I just posted 3 posts up with the Pitlords Account, or you c) just continue to rant here with censored speech. As for the 'problem' itself: We've a) discussed it for about 2 weeks where you participated b) it's in the Rules of Gladius, and c) I've explained it again on the Fights of the Week thread when I posted the pairings. That's all I can do. :tissue: Edit: If you want to imply that the outcome might be different without that rule I want to point out that you did attack Niobe right away in the first run, and lost. So that wouldn't change anything. @ Caterane: Lol, sorry, I know I came off as an :censored: with my above post, but I didn't mean to. I just meant that the idea that a gladiator goes and attacks another but cant turn and fend off his own attacker is kind of messed up. And Cat, I didn't see you had posted in the House of Commons thread until after I posted my rant...I have my options set to put threads that have been replied to since I last read them as bold, but it didn't show up. It's my fault for not checking again. And I didn't think that link was directed towards me, I just thought it was for everyone to know that you had posted that up. Again, I'm sorry, that was my misunderstanding. And I wanted to imply that, had my characters been able to go after whomever they spotted first from the beginning, one or both of those fights may have gone differently. But I understand this was the first trial, and that there's always bugs the first time around, and they will be fixed. If you want volunteers for the next trial, count me in. :D P.S: I hate some of the smileys...You can be smiling and still swearing...Anyways, sorry again Cat. @ Nightbanegod First, I think your Spot bonus should be 9...I don't think you get a bonus from your familiar for having it and for being near it. (I'm basing this on the fact that I can only find the +3 bonus for having an owl as a familiar. If you know where it says that you get a +2 bonus for being near it, please, tell me.) Next, how do you expect to decimate all if you can only cast 2 spell levels worth of spells, and have no weapon? Trust me, if you try to cast as many spells as you're thinking you can cast, you're mistaken. You would move 30' in one round if you wanted to cast a non-full round action spell, where as my monk, Ormos, would move 90' in a charge to grapple you (after using a tat of skate, of course). If the grapple succeeded, you couldn't cast any spells with somatic components, and any other spells would require a concetration check. P.S: I'm from Cali, USA. Burn to live!
Deadly Assassin 07-25-05, 01:41 AM	Ok, question. If Ormos has gauntlets, would he use a large monk's damage (1d8) or a large gauntlet's (1d4)? I could se it being 1d4 because the gauntlet would be considered a weapon, but I could also see it being 1d8 since Ormos would technically be unarmed (imo).
LLMadCow 07-25-05, 01:51 AM	@ Nightbanegod First, I think your Spot bonus should be 9...I don't think you get a bonus from your familiar for having it and for being near it. (I'm basing this on the fact that I can only find the +3 bonus for having an owl as a familiar. If you know where it says that you get a +2 bonus for being near it, please, tell me.) ALERTNESS [GENERAL] Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Listen checks and Spot checks. Special: The master of a familiar gains the benefit of the Alertness feat whenever the familiar is within arm’s reach. There's your +2 bonus added for being within Arms reach. :) P.S: I'm from Cali, USA. Burn to live! What part of California? I was raised in San Jose, but have long since moved all over the place....
Salrantol 07-25-05, 01:57 AM	@ Nightbanegod First, I think your Spot bonus should be 9...I don't think you get a bonus from your familiar for having it and for being near it. (I'm basing this on the fact that I can only find the +3 bonus for having an owl as a familiar. If you know where it says that you get a +2 bonus for being near it, please, tell me.Alertness (Ex): While a familiar is within arm’s reach, the master gains the Alertness feat.ORALERTNESS [GENERAL] Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Listen checks and Spot checks. Special: The master of a familiar gains the benefit of the Alertness feat whenever the familiar is within arm’s reach. That ought to answer your question.
Deadly Assassin 07-25-05, 02:10 AM	Yup, thanks LL and Sal.
MystErikEry 07-25-05, 03:17 AM	I have a question; I'm not sure where to ask it, really, so I guess here is best. Is it okay to create a character who is middle age / old age / venerable age, applying the appropriate (and cumulative) modifications to attributes?
Pittbull 07-25-05, 03:20 AM	Yes, you can create a character at any age!
Salrantol 07-25-05, 07:27 AM	Well... :( Due to a new position that I am taking with my employer (which will, unfortunately, require a great deal more commuting and will leave me without nearly so much free time) and the fact that soon (61 days :D ) I will have the woman I love living in my (then our) home (thus giving me something better to do while home), I will be unable to continue with Living Gladius beyond this current week. I have greatly enjoyed my time here, and have learned a lot of rules much better due to pitlording. Thank you all, and good luck to you all in the arena and life from here on out.
Deadly Assassin 07-25-05, 07:45 AM	Well, at least you're leaving for good reasons, Sal.
Pittbull 07-25-05, 08:00 AM	Hey Sal, good luck! You're very welcome to come back, if you've more spare-time. CU! :)
Vathelokai 07-25-05, 08:30 AM	We'll be here, if you ever want to check in. Good luck.
Sunwolf 07-25-05, 09:37 AM	So I have a question: Don't you need to cast idenitfy on an item (or be told the activation word) in order to find out the command word to activate it? (Like a wand?) If so, would it even be possible to take someone else's wand and use charges from it if you don't know the activation word?
TelinArtho 07-25-05, 09:58 AM	Anyone care to comment on my question about whether the xp penalty from multiclassing is in place (I assume it is - but does it affect gp too?).
Cerebus13 07-25-05, 10:05 AM	Anyone care to comment on my question about whether the xp penalty from multiclassing is in place (I assume it is - but does it affect gp too?).Yes, and it does affect GP as well. Caterane made this distinction last week sometime I believe, because reducing XP and not GP is open to abuse.
TelinArtho 07-25-05, 10:09 AM	I thought so - but I still haven't found the relevant post. Thanks for clearing that up.
Zerone 07-25-05, 11:31 AM	Where can one find the Handle Animal ability: Improved Attack? Thanks for the help, *•. Z
TelinArtho 07-25-05, 12:00 PM	I need a small clarification in the Rules: When crafting (anything), you can craft "up to" 1000gp in Marketprice without having to sit out. Does this translate to 1000gp or less OR 999gp, 9sp, 9cp or less? Seems like a small detail, but it means everything to someone who happens to be crafting with a marketprice of exactly 1000gp...
xanadu 07-25-05, 12:14 PM	Where can one find the Handle Animal ability: Improved Attack? Thanks for the help, *•. Z Zerone, right there :) Read the "attack" entry closer and you'll see the bit about improved attack needing a total of 2 tricks.
xanadu 07-25-05, 12:16 PM	Best Sal.
TelinArtho 07-25-05, 12:17 PM	@Nightbanegod regarding Olmsford: Spell levels should be 3 usable (4 1sts, 2 2nds = 8 spell levels/3 = 2 2/3 = 3
Prince FyreDragon 07-25-05, 12:41 PM	Due to the 1/3 rule for casters, are clerics and druids still allowed to spontaneously replace memorized spells for cure spells and summon ally spells, respectively? Or do they need to memorize those spells if they wish to cast them?
GuardianAngel 07-25-05, 01:20 PM	for the magic domain on the cleric it says you can use scrolls and such as a wizard 1/2 your lvl. my question is do we round down or up if we were 3rd lvl cleric? And what does this mean "psionically focused" If i have a psionic race but not a psionic class can this be done? and can I take psionic feats with either or? Just trying to figure out whats out thier to be used for my characters
Sunwolf 07-25-05, 02:05 PM	Due to the 1/3 rule for casters, are clerics and druids still allowed to spontaneously replace memorized spells for cure spells and summon ally spells, respectively? Or do they need to memorize those spells if they wish to cast them? Yes, they may spontaneously replace memorized spells for cure/inflict or summon spells respectively for clerics(good/evil) and druids. The spontaneous casting uses a spell of the same level as normal. They do not need to memorise those spells since they can spontaneously cast them.
Sunwolf 07-25-05, 02:07 PM	I need a small clarification in the Rules: When crafting (anything), you can craft "up to" 1000gp in Marketprice without having to sit out. Does this translate to 1000gp or less OR 999gp, 9sp, 9cp or less? Seems like a small detail, but it means everything to someone who happens to be crafting with a marketprice of exactly 1000gp... Up to and including 1000gp. Fror example a 2000gp item could be crafted in 2 weeks at 1000gp per week without sitting out.
Gonbow 07-25-05, 02:32 PM	And what does this mean "psionically focused" If i have a psionic race but not a psionic class can this be done? and can I take psionic feats with either or? Psionically focused is a 'buff' that is attained by a DC 20 concentration check (you can take 20), thus, anyone can become psionically focused (unless they have a constitution penalty and no ranks in concentrate). Being psionically focused, in and of itself, has no benefit. Many feats and psionic class abilities take advantage of it however. If you have a psionic power point pool, no matter what the source, you can take psionic feats. Even psionic classes that do not manifest typically give you psionic power points (The Soulknife class, for instance, gives you the Wild Talent feat for free).
GuardianAngel 07-25-05, 02:52 PM	So if I was a Xeph fighter then I would get that ability aslong as I had one rank in Concentration?
Gonbow 07-25-05, 03:06 PM	So if I was a Xeph fighter then I would get that ability aslong as I had one rank in Concentration? And your constitution penalty is -1 or better (0 or positive), yes. (Net concentration of +0 or better, in other words) You won't be able to regain it in battle though, without some ungodly luck, so it'll be a one-shot deal, which really isn't getting the most out of the ability.
Sindorin 07-25-05, 03:06 PM	Attention everyone: A new slot has opened up in Faded Fate, my EL4 campaign. If you have a character posted who is Level 3 or 4, 5 credits, and ample time to post once or twice a day, and of course you would like to participate in this fun game, please send me a PM expressing interest. You may want to consider a rogue/skilled character since that is what the character who left was. Before his departure, the group was very well balanced. Good luck! ~Sindorin
TelinArtho 07-25-05, 03:08 PM	My newest character has decided to have a go at the arena. Care to take a look over him? Daeren Stronghammer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6787924)
Sunwolf 07-25-05, 03:40 PM	@TelinArtho Need to include your +4 armor in the AC line. List your ranged attacks under attacks too. You may want to note your conditional save modifiers in your save block, it is easy to forget them if they aren't right by the save numbers. Note that while you are raging you won't be able to cast spells. You can, however, end your rage when you want and then cast spells.
TelinArtho 07-25-05, 03:51 PM	Thanks - noted in each case.
SoulLord 07-25-05, 04:28 PM	Quick question If I buy something I can then sell it for half the market price... but what about credits? can I get back half the credits (round down) I spent on the item?
McJarvis 07-25-05, 04:59 PM	Speaking of crafting & selling items, can you craft 1,000gp per week if you have the skill, then sell immediately?(1/3gp material cost, 1/2gp sellingprice=~166 gp per week for 1,000gp worth of items) Obviously at lower levels this would be more useful then at higher levels.
TelinArtho 07-25-05, 05:04 PM	Well, since the craft skill has been changed for CoCo - no - you can't do that. However, you could craft 1000gp (for 500gp) of stuff and sell it for 500gp.
Prince FyreDragon 07-25-05, 05:10 PM	Weaponsmithing, Armorsmithing, Bowmaking: You may craft any non-magical item with a listed price that is related to the respective craft skill. The cost of raw materials is 1/2 (not 1/3), but the speed of crafting is much faster than that given in the skill description: you can craft 1000 gp's worth of market price in one day. For example, an adamantine greatsword costing 3050 gp would take 4 days to craft, and cost you 1525 gp. You are assumed to be taking 10 on all crafting rolls. For example, the above adamantine greatsword would have a craft DC of 20, meaning that your character would need a Craft (weaponsmithing) skill bonus of at least +10. You can buy a masterwork tool (50 gp) for the respective craft skill which gives you a +2 circumstance bonus. I'm wondering where you are coming up with the 1000 a week stuff...since by my math and the above rules posted in the rules thread, with a 6 day week (since your 7th day would be fighting), you could craft up to 6000 gp market value per week, and you would pay 3000 in materials. And if I am wrong about the 7th day, then it would go up to 7000 gp market value and 3500 material cost per week. Is there somewhere seperate that says you can only craft 1000 market value per week and still keep fighting? Or am I misinterpreting what it says here? Edit: Nevermind....I just didn't read far enough.... Crafting and Time: You may craft items up to 1000 gp Marketprice without having to sit out. However, if you exceed that value, you cannot participate in any event for that week. Your character is still considered active. For very expensive items, you might have to sit out even more than a week. If you craft items for more than 7000 gp Marketprice, you have to sit out another week, and another one for every additional 7000 gp.
TelinArtho 07-25-05, 05:13 PM	Just a few paragraphs below: Crafting and Time: You may craft items up to 1000 gp Marketprice without having to sit out. However, if you exceed that value, you cannot participate in any event. Your character is still considered active.
Deadly Assassin 07-25-05, 05:24 PM	Ok, question. If Ormos has gauntlets, would he use a large monk's damage (1d8) or a large gauntlet's (1d4)? I could se it being 1d4 because the gauntlet would be considered a weapon, but I could also see it being 1d8 since Ormos would technically be unarmed (imo). :confused:
Gonbow 07-25-05, 05:59 PM	Ormos using Large Gauntlets does damage as a Large Gauntlet (1d4). Gauntlets are not monk weapons and you can not use the improved unarmed strike damage of a monk with them, nor flurry with them, use stunning fist with them (Unless they are ki-strap'd), etc etc.
Prince FyreDragon 07-25-05, 07:42 PM	With regard to druids and armor... Since druids can not wear metal armor, are there any restrictions as to what types of armor can be crafted out of things like darkwood and/or dragonhide? For instance, if I wanted to make a darkwood or dragonhide chain shirt? Would there be any penalties involved with doing so (such as AC penalties, etc)?
nightbanegod 07-25-05, 08:31 PM	well for starters on dark wood... the SRD says Items not normally made of wood or only partially of wood (such as a battleaxe or a mace) either cannot be made from darkwood or do not gain any special benefit from being made of darkwood" ... and last time i checked CHAIN SHIRTS =/= wooden dragon hide prolly has to be quested for
Prince FyreDragon 07-25-05, 08:47 PM	As your own quote says, if it is not normally made from darkwood, it either cannot be done, or does not gain any special benefit, which is the reason for my query. And I have seen nothing to say that special materials have to be quested for, so as long as I can afford the materials, I see no reason that I must quest for dragonhide. There are no wooden armors of any kind, but druids are allowed to make armor out of wood, because at later levels they are allowed to enchant them with the ironwood spell, which causes them to act like steel as far as hardness and such.
MystErikEry 07-25-05, 09:52 PM	Hello! ^_^ I have made a character! Rumplebucket is done! I think... Would somebody please take a look at him, to see if I did it right, and didn't make any mistakes? http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6791536&postcount=372 ^ There he is!
Gonbow 07-25-05, 09:56 PM	That's uh.. That's... Strength 2!?!? Jebus. Ray of enfeeblement for the win! You need to get a spellbook. The weight is significant with a strength that low. Cuz.. Damn... Strength 2... I think that could be a fatal mistake, in all honesty.
MystErikEry 07-25-05, 10:05 PM	That's uh.. That's... Strength 2!?!? Jebus. Ray of enfeeblement for the win! You need to get a spellbook. The weight is significant with a strength that low. Cuz.. Damn... Strength 2... I think that could be a fatal mistake, in all honesty. Ray of Enfeeblement brings him to 1 Str (-5) [it can't lower Str to 0], which means he can't carry his weapon, true - but he can still cast spells. I don't need to carry the spellbook around in the arena. He uses that at home to prepare spells; all he needs is a 4 lb light crossbow and 1 lb pack of bolts. Which he can carry. He's old, and he hobbles around weakly, but that's the way I like him to be. Weapon Finesse means he can use Touch Spells more effectively, too, once he gets some Dexterity enhancement. Dropping to 1 Str means he can't carry his crossbow anymore (in which case he would drop it, and use a bolt as a dagger for CdC, if the situation arises, and otherwise rely entirely on Rays of Frost). But that's about it... woopy-do? And actually, he can keep using his crossbow; he just counts as having a medium load (so gains less Dex bonus (hah!) to AC) and lowers his movement speed. He can still use his crossbow as normal for a CdC, anyway. I mean, compare this to a fighter getting hit with a Ray of Enfeeblement. It might drop him into a Heavy Load, or worse --- would be much more devastating ^_^
Mind Rogue 07-25-05, 10:21 PM	You know too many languages. You don't get an extra language from your headband of intellect, nor do you get one for raising your age to venerable, since you learn languages by the time you become a young adult. I was going to say you had to be at least 6th level to craft a +2 headband, but apparently I was mistaken. I figured it was like magic weapons and armor and cloaks of resistance where your level had to be at least triple the bonus. But wow! as Gonbow said, a strength of 2! Anyone with ray of enfeeblement or strength sapping poison who gets the drop on you will have your head on a silver platter. Then you go around with three copies of sleep and not even a scroll of mage armor - You're asking to get yourself killed really quickly. Your survival depends entirely on being able to get the drop on your opponent and them failing their save. Otherwise, it only takes one or two good blows, and you're out. A third level rogue with a potion of invisibility could easily deal 1d8 +1 +2d6 damage with a sneak attack on his crossbow and pointblank shot, and only have a 5% chance to miss on dealling 4-21 damage, which will take you down more often than not. A rival mage could also easily hit you with a 4d6 scorching ray, which means death more often than not, ray of enfeeblement, which will paralyze you if it hits, magic missile to have a fair shot at knocking you out, and any barbarian with a two-handed weapon is likely to be able to deal lethal damage automatically if he hits. Having a low AC, few HP, poor saves, and a Str of 2 don't really go together well.
MystErikEry 07-25-05, 10:40 PM	Are you sure about the Languages? I only have 6 (Common, plus five others, due to a +5 modifier to Int at character creation; I didn't include the Headband's bonus for that OR my skill points). I should think that a character who is venerable has had time to study and learn one additional language over his lifetime, after all ~_~; Considering +3 Int = +1 language when you begin. Also, yes, my character would totally get owned by an invisible opponent. However, once he reaches a level where he can conceivably cast See Invisible and still cast other spells, this particular bit won't be an issue. Enemy mages with Scorching Ray have to see me to hit me, so it would all depend on who gets to go first... Ray of Enfeeblement can't paralyze me - it says in the spell description that it cannot reduce Str to below 1. Poison, on the other hand, can drain me to 0 Str, which I'm well aware of. I'm more playing him for flavor, mostly. Also, I like Save-or-die spells. And the way to get the DC high is to have as high Int as possible. Yay! I may be wrong on the Headband of Intellect crafting bit - the Rules of Gladius says that you can ignore the Caster Level requirement, provided you have the other requirements met, so I assumed this applied. Three copies of Sleep are kind of unecessary, since I'll only be able to cast two after Expedituous Retreat, so perhaps a Mage Armor would be nice. As soon as he can, though, he'll be starting with Mage Armor pre-buffed (Extended Mage Armor). That'll come. I'll be taking Improved Initiative when I can, and go for some Dex-boosting gear as soon as it becomes uncostly, and get the jump on my enemies - casting a difficult-to-avoid Save-or-die spell seems like it would work decently. Low AC is kind of unavoidable. Mage Armor is +4 (which is nice), but it isn't going to delay his death that much, really. I'd much rather attempt a second Sleep spell if the first fails, while keeping out of range (if at all possible) with Expedituous Retreat). ^_^ I wonder who to ask about that Languages thing, though... EDIT: Pardon me! I noticed I have seven languages instead of the six I claimed. I'm taking off Draconic; I'll have to find out about the Venerable-Age-Language. A character with a +2 Int racial bonus gets an extra language, after all.
Faroth 07-25-05, 10:51 PM	Hi, i'm new in the arena. I'd like to know if i can "get ready" for wed 27, or i need to say i'm ready with a week of anticipation and wait for a pitlord to take me to battle. Thanks for the help, I want to try it! (even if i lose it would be fun :D) see u P.D. The Old pal is too fragile, str2? can he stand his own body? xD
Zerone 07-25-05, 10:58 PM	Hi, i'm new in the arena. I'd like to know if i can "get ready" for wed 27, or i need to say i'm ready with a week of anticipation and wait for a pitlord to take me to battle. Thanks for the help, I want to try it! (even if i lose it would be fun :D) see u Create a Gladiator and post it here... Gladiator's of Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=359951). Then send a PM to the Pitlords account, telling them that you have created a new character and that you wish for them to be added to the list of active gladiators. Then, when your character is added to the list, they will be paired for that weeks fights. Good Luck! :cheer: Welcome to the CoCo. I extend this greeting to all of the new blood that we have received recently. There have been too many to keep track of... :pile::bounce: *•. Z
Zerone 07-25-05, 11:06 PM	Are you sure about the Languages? :snip: I wonder who to ask about that Languages thing, though... EDIT: Pardon me! I noticed I have seven languages instead of the six I claimed. I'm taking off Draconic; I'll have to find out about the Venerable-Age-Language. A character with a +2 Int racial bonus gets an extra language, after all. You receive all the benefits of having a high Int here in the CoCo. It is a little unfair, but even when a character improves a Headband of Intellect to +4 they would gain another language without study, along with skills, etc... Mainly, these things happen in character time, not real time. Also, do not forget about scrolls. The CoCo has a limit of Character Level +2 for the highest level scroll that you can cast during a battle. So, a Level 3 Wizard could buy a scroll of Shocking Grasp Caster Level 5, etc... or scribe a scroll Caster Level 3, 2, or 1. Edit: 2 Str is just fine, as long as its not your character... :D I think a 2 Str will have its difficulties, but they can be overcome. Edit #2: Yes, you ignore Caster Level limits when creating Magical Items. *•. Z
Mind Rogue 07-25-05, 11:09 PM	@ MystErik I didn't think to look up whether RoE could actually knock you to 0 Str or not... But still, I think you might want to invest in a scroll of Mage Armor or something. And to all the newbies out there (esp. Faroth), yes you can still join in. In fact, you can still join in on wednesday as long as you beat the clock (I believe it is 9 PM GMT, but don't hold me to that ;) ).
MystErikEry 07-25-05, 11:10 PM	You receive all the benefits of having a high Int here in the CoCo. It is a little unfair, but even when a character improves a Headband of Intellect to +4 they would gain another language without study, mainly, these things happen in character time, not real time. Also, do not forget about scrolls. The CoCo has a limit of Character Level +2 for the highest level scroll that you can cast during a battle. So, a Level 3 Wizard could buy a scroll of Shocking Grasp Caster Level 5, etc... or scribe a scroll Caster Level 3, 2, or 1. *•. Z Wait, so are you saying that Languages Known and Skill Point totals are dependant on the current, modified Int score? So, for example, if my character was: Starting with 18 Int, Wizard Level 20 (+5 Int from leveling), Venerable (+3 Int), Headband of Intellect +7 (say he spends Credits :P ) Inherent Bonus +5 (from Wish or whatever else) = 38 Int (+14) Would he have counted as starting with 15 languages, 18 first-level spells, and have 368 Skill Points total ?
Zerone 07-25-05, 11:16 PM	Wait, so are you saying that Languages Known and Skill Point totals are dependant on the current, modified Int score? So, for example, if my character was: Starting with 18 Int, Wizard Level 20 (+5 Int from leveling), Venerable (+3 Int), Headband of Intellect +7 (say he spends Credits :P ) Inherent Bonus +5 (from Wish or whatever else) = 38 Int (+14) Would he have counted as starting with 15 languages, 18 first-level spells, and have 368 Skill Points total ? Yes. All ability changes are retro-active: You loose 2 points of Con to a drain effect - You loose the Hit Points. You gain 2 Points of Con through a magical item, you gain the HP. Same for every ability: retro-active. So in the case of the Int increase, your Base skill points would be recalculated from scratch and multiplied, and then add in the bonus per level, and that's your new total. You wouldn't get to change anything already spent, just add the extra skill points into the existing ones already spent. *•. Z
MystErikEry 07-25-05, 11:21 PM	Yes. All ability changes are retro-active: You loose 2 points of Con to a drain effect - You loose the Hit Points. You gain 2 Points of Con through a magical item, you gain the HP. Same for every ability: retro-active. So in the case of the Int increase, your Base skill points would be recalculated from scratch and multiplied, and then add in the bonus per level, and that's your new total. *•. Z This certainly isn't normal rules. In fact, it's mentioned multiple times in the Core rules not to use your Enhanced Int for Skill Point gain, and speaks harshly about how Skill Points are not retroactive. I can see why this is, however, best to do on something like this --- it keeps it all easier to keep track of.
Zerone 07-25-05, 11:30 PM	This certainly isn't normal rules. In fact, it's mentioned multiple times in the Core rules not to use your Enhanced Int for Skill Point gain, and speaks harshly about how Skill Points are not retroactive. I can see why this is, however, best to do on something like this --- it keeps it all easier to keep track of. That's the way it was described to me by Caterane the Iron Fisted... allias the Pitlords... allias Caterane... :king: So that's how I do it here. *•. Z
Faroth 07-25-05, 11:56 PM	Thanks for the help, but i'll wait for the next week. You fall helpless if your strenght go below 0... poison? remember? a single arrow can do the job. see ya
MystErikEry 07-26-05, 12:03 AM	Thanks for the help, but i'll wait for the next week. You fall helpless if your strenght go below 0... poison? remember? a single arrow can do the job. see ya Yes, poison can get him. However, the cheapest Str-damaging poison has DC 14, which can be beaten 25% of the time for Rumplebucket, and even if he fails he still has a 25% chance to not be reduced to 0 from the attack.
Faroth 07-26-05, 12:23 AM	Is possible to resist, kind of hard, but is possible. A question: Can I have a rat familiar free? should i pay some money? a quest? please not a quest. I want to know if i have to quit it of my profile. see ya
Sindorin 07-26-05, 01:23 AM	It depends on your character class, and when the familiar is acquired. If you begin having the familiar right at character creation, you do not have to quest for it. If the familiar is acquired later on, you must quest for it. No matter what, though, the ritual to summon the familiar will always cost 100 gp. If you are not a familiar-using class, you might be able to train such an animal, but it would not have the insane benefits a familiar has.
Jindl 07-26-05, 01:44 AM	The Official FAQ on the WoTC website says specifically that skillpoints are not retroactively modified by Int increases, and that magical enhancements to Int do not affect skill points in any way. Here's a correct example, using an Int 15 nonhuman wizard. Lvl1: 4x(2+2) = 16 skill points. Lvl2: +2+2 = +4 skill points. Lvl3: +2+2 = +4 skill points. Lvl4 (+1 Int at 4th lvl = Int 16): +2+3 = +5 skill points. Lvl5 (acquires a headband of intellect +2 = Int 18): +2+3 = +5 skill points. etc. Notice that the ability score boost at Lvl4 does cause the character to start gaining more skill points, but it is not retroactive to his earlier skill point gains. Also note that the magical enhancement from the headband does not affect skill point gains in any way. So says the Official 3.5 FAQ. ;) -Jindl
MystErikEry 07-26-05, 01:50 AM	That may be how it works in a normal game, but apparently it is retroactive here. It certainly makes bookkeeping easier, though.
Jindl 07-26-05, 01:59 AM	That may be how it works in a normal game, but apparently it is retroactive here. It certainly makes bookkeeping easier, though. It is NOT retroactive here. Never has been. And such a drastic deviation from Core rules would certainly require an Elder approval to be put into effect. Cat, please respond?
MystErikEry 07-26-05, 02:06 AM	That's the way it was described to me by Caterane the Iron Fisted... allias the Pitlords... allias Caterane... :king: So that's how I do it here. *•. Z This is my source... is it reliable? At any rate, I've changed him back to what I had before; however, I did keep the effects of again as having happened before gaining any class levels just like racial features do, so the extra +1 mod to his Intelligence I have applied to his initial Level 1 Spells known and his Skill Points and Starting Languages. I like this better, I think, since it's what I planned for from the start :P (I have his advancement up until 20 practically mapped out XD )
waywreth 07-26-05, 09:50 AM	Basic question: 1. After a fight when do we update our character sheets in time for the following weeks fights? I'm guessing at this time (whenever it is) we're allowed to purchase/sell items as needed.
Sunwolf 07-26-05, 10:21 AM	Basic question: 1. After a fight when do we update our character sheets in time for the following weeks fights? I'm guessing at this time (whenever it is) we're allowed to purchase/sell items as needed. After your fight is posted, you may update your character and set him/her ready for next week. At update time, you may buy and sell items as needed.
Caterane 07-26-05, 11:24 AM	That's the way it was described to me by Caterane the Iron Fisted... allias the Pitlords... allias Caterane... :king: So that's how I do it here. *•. Z Someone must've hijacked my account then for I would never say such a thing. If I had said that then why don't all of my characters use that retroactive skill application? Of course, int modifiers are not retroactively applied. And Zoro... I hope you haven't posted that with my name on other boards lol @MysticEric: You don't get bonus languages for being old (because you get them at character creation and no one can start being old) but you gain a skill point increase from the time you became old/venerable.
Huan 07-26-05, 11:51 AM	I do believe MystErikEry's Rumplebucket Jahosafat Humdingerbuffer has the lowest Str score ever with 2 (btw, I think you intended to put the 16 in Int, not Wis ;) ).
Pitlords 07-26-05, 12:41 PM	@ALL PITLORDS: If there is a change in the outcome in one of your fights, you must tell me. I cannot follow all discussions on the FotW thread so I might miss a rerun. Thanks
Prince FyreDragon 07-26-05, 02:11 PM	Is there anything that says a race that is already psionic (such as maened or elan) is not allowed to take the feat Wild Talent and gain the 2 extra power points on top of the power points granted by race? Wild Talent is a general feat, and it does not say it is restricted to non-psionic races. Is is most likely intended for them, but does not list any restrictions.
KerlanRayne 07-26-05, 02:36 PM	Is there anything that says a race that is already psionic (such as maened or elan) is not allowed to take the feat Wild Talent and gain the 2 extra power points on top of the power points granted by race? Wild Talent is a general feat, and it does not say it is restricted to non-psionic races. Is is most likely intended for them, but does not list any restrictions.Forget Wild Talent, take a look at Psionic Talent, it's better. KerlanRayne
MystErikEry 07-26-05, 02:47 PM	I do believe MystErikEry's Rumplebucket Jahosafat Humdingerbuffer has the lowest Str score ever with 2 (btw, I think you intended to put the 16 in Int, not Wis ;) ). Oh! Yes, thank you. I'm used to the order being Str/Dex/Con/Wis/Int/Cha, for some reason. Someone must've hijacked my account then for I would never say such a thing. If I had said that then why don't all of my characters use that retroactive skill application? Of course, int modifiers are not retroactively applied. And Zoro... I hope you haven't posted that with my name on other boards lol @MysticEric: You don't get bonus languages for being old (because you get them at character creation and no one can start being old) but you gain a skill point increase from the time you became old/venerable. Thank you for the clarification. So if I get a Skill Point increase as usual, does that mean that, since he became a Wizard after becoming Venerable, his starting number of First-Level Spells (at Level 3) is 3 (initial) + 5 (int bonus) + 2 (Level 2) = 10 ? Okay, he's all set then ^_^ Yay! I should probably invest in some Antitoxin, but I suppose I'll first see how he does without it. No sense spending money on something that will only be useful if someone actually goes out of their way to get poisons and use them, which I don't think would be as horribly common.
Caterane 07-26-05, 03:25 PM	@ALL: Miniquests Encounter Levels cannot be higher than the Characters ECL-2!!! Deadly Assassin, your chicken quest is EL 4! Finish it but please remember!
SoulLord 07-26-05, 03:31 PM	Just so I'm not mistaken... Is the cost of a headband of intellect +1 1,000 gp? bonus squared x 1000 = (1) x 1,000 = 1,000
MystErikEry 07-26-05, 03:34 PM	Just so I'm not mistaken... Is the cost of a headband of intellect +1 1,000 gp? bonus squared x 1000 = (1) x 1,000 = 1,000 As far as I know, yes. That's the pattern, alright. However, do remember that such an item would require a credit expenditure, from what I can tell. ^_^
Tellish_of_Ket 07-26-05, 03:36 PM	@MysticEric: You don't get bonus languages for being old (because you get them at character creation and no one can start being old) but you gain a skill point increase from the time you became old/venerable. This is incorrect. You get new languages whenever you Start The Game as per PHB. page 9 first paragraph. You are making assumption of character creation. If he gave himself an 18 int via points, and it was brough up to 21 via age....he [i]began the game with a 21 int and would be entitled to his one extra bonus language. Just my opinion though. That's how i read it. Just so I'm not mistaken... Is the cost of a headband of intellect +1 1,000 gp? bonus squared x 1000 = (1) x 1,000 = 1,000 Yup, plus 5 credits. -ToK
TelinArtho 07-26-05, 03:37 PM	That's correct soullord (and I see you've already got the credits deducted for it...)
Prince FyreDragon 07-26-05, 03:51 PM	When purchasing a power stone, the SRD states that it will contain a certain number of powers based upon it's category (minor, medium or major) and max level. When purchasing a power stone, how are the number of powers it contains determined? Is it always the max, or always the minimum? Must all powers be the same power or can you have more than one power in a power stone as long as they add up to the total powers available to the stone?
MystErikEry 07-26-05, 03:55 PM	You get new languages whenever you Start The Game as per PHB. page 9 first paragraph. You are making assumption of character creation. If he gave himself an 18 int via points, and it was brough up to 21 via age....he [i]began the game with a 21 int and would be entitled to his one extra bonus language. Just my opinion though. That's how i read it. This is how I was thinking it was, too. After all, it isn't as though it wouldn't make sense IC --- a character who has grown to Old Age likely would easily be able to learn another language throughout his lifetime just by being around it, without having to spend 2 Skill Points (or one, if a Bard) into it. *shrugs* ^_^ Oh: How soon do you think it would be possible to get Tome of Understanding +1 to +5 ? I can't make them myself until Level 15 (and and at that point it's better to just use the necessary Wish scrolls anyway, which means it'd be better to just buy the appropriate Tome), and that means I only get the benefit for four levels, and it's very likely to have purchased a Tome at an earlier level.. Hmm.. I want those Int Boosts as soon as possible, if Skill Points aren't retroactive ;)
Jindl 07-26-05, 04:07 PM	This is incorrect. You get new languages whenever you Start The Game as per PHB. page 9 first paragraph. You are making assumption of character creation. If he gave himself an 18 int via points, and it was brough up to 21 via age....he [i]began the game with a 21 int and would be entitled to his one extra bonus language. Just my opinion though. That's how i read it. I agree.
Jindl 07-26-05, 04:08 PM	This is how I was thinking it was, too. After all, it isn't as though it wouldn't make sense IC --- a character who has grown to Old Age likely would easily be able to learn another language throughout his lifetime just by being around it, without having to spend 2 Skill Points (or one, if a Bard) into it. *shrugs* ^_^ Oh: How soon do you think it would be possible to get Tome of Understanding +1 to +5 ? I can't make them myself until Level 15 (and and at that point it's better to just use the necessary Wish scrolls anyway, which means it'd be better to just buy the appropriate Tome), and that means I only get the benefit for four levels, and it's very likely to have purchased a Tome at an earlier level.. Hmm.. I want those Int Boosts as soon as possible, if Skill Points aren't retroactive ;) They are a waste of money. If you really want to boost int, try getting creative with a permanent form of polymorph any object...
MystErikEry 07-26-05, 04:15 PM	They are a waste of money. If you really want to boost int, try getting creative with a permanent form of polymorph any object... That would be at 13th level, but is likely the best option. I don't think it would be good, flavor-wise, though, for this to be the case :/ I can't imagine Rumplebucket being anything other than a grumpy old man. If he were to change into something else, it would be particularly strange XD Plus, a targetted dispel would return him to his feeble old man form, which means he may have to buy multiple Polymorph scrolls until he can actually level up as the new form successfully :P So I dunno about that. >_<
Mind Rogue 07-26-05, 04:50 PM	When purchasing a power stone, the SRD states that it will contain a certain number of powers based upon it's category (minor, medium or major) and max level. When purchasing a power stone, how are the number of powers it contains determined? Is it always the max, or always the minimum? Must all powers be the same power or can you have more than one power in a power stone as long as they add up to the total powers available to the stone? When you purchase a power stone, it has as many powers in it as its creater chose to put in it. Since many stones are custom-ordered (probably most of them in Gladius), it has precisely as many powers in it as you ask to be imbued into it. The variable amount is a guideline to the DM to tell how many powers to imbue into it when randomly generating treasure (which doesn't help much since it can be a pain to go through the psion table and handpick powers since there isn't a list of commonly imbued powers), and has no effect here. However, limiting a power stone to 6 powers (the maximum roled for a major stone) seems reasonable.
Prince FyreDragon 07-26-05, 06:20 PM	I have two new characters posted, Osan'gar and Aran'gar. This is my first attempt ever at doing a psionic character of any kind, so if someone can tear them both apart and look for errors, it would be appreciated.
Altaris13 07-26-05, 08:02 PM	I have two new characters posted, Osan'gar and Aran'gar. This is my first attempt ever at doing a psionic character of any kind, so if someone can tear them both apart and look for errors, it would be appreciated. Wowser Scoob! I wish that old fart would stop playing Scrooge McDuck and actually write!!! Write dang you write!!! :D Ahem... Now back to our regularly scheduled carnage...
Gonbow 07-26-05, 08:37 PM	Osan'gar: Write out where the HP come from. Note how often Burst racial ability can be used. Aran'gar: Also with the HP. Also with the Burst. Comments: Eh... Psionic Talent and Body? How underwhelming :P I imagine this'll be of use in the long run... But right now they seem like subpar choices. Of course, I don't play casters, so better choices arn't coming out of the woodwork, but Point Blank Shot and Psionic Shot (going into Greater Psionic Shot and the psi-focus as a move action later) are a very solid combo, as you can use them with ranged spells.
Deadly Assassin 07-27-05, 01:12 AM	Ok, my new (and last, I swear! Well...At least until I retire someone, that is... :P ) character (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6802948&postcount=378) is up. Anyone care to take a whack at him?
Prince FyreDragon 07-27-05, 01:26 AM	Ok, my new (and last, I swear! Well...At least until I retire someone, that is... :P ) character (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6802948&postcount=378) is up. Anyone care to take a whack at him? :uh-huh: :headexplo :surrender Ahhhhhhh my :censored: eyes! Someone turn the volume of his colors down!
KerlanRayne 07-27-05, 05:58 AM	I have two new characters posted, Osan'gar and Aran'gar. This is my first attempt ever at doing a psionic character of any kind, so if someone can tear them both apart and look for errors, it would be appreciated.For your wilder, I think that Skate is a waste. Wilders are about free augmentation and high manifester levels, skate doesn't benefit from these at all. I'd stick to a power stone. Anthe the Dorge of Energy Ray won't help much either. You can't augment it so you'll have 50 charges of 1d6 damage. For the Entangling Ectoplasm one, add Enlarge onto it. It's free and doubles the range. KerlanRayne
waywreth 07-27-05, 08:37 AM	What level do you have to be to purchase a heavy warhorse? Also can it be done without a quest? And you can just purchase a light warhorse correct? My slow rather immoble butt needs a ride.
TelinArtho 07-27-05, 08:51 AM	Yes you can purchase a warhorse. However, since it is a CR2 creature and you are blessed with the restriction of (ECL-4, 1) for the max cr of creatures you bring with you - you need to be at least 6th level to bring it in (ECL = 6, -4 = 2). You can bring a light warhorse though at 3rd level. /d
Sindorin 07-27-05, 08:54 AM	Yes, and just make sure you watch the weight load you take on that light warhorse. They aren't as strong as some might think...
TelinArtho 07-27-05, 08:58 AM	@Deadly Assassin - if you new character was active, I would post this to the character violations. You need to clarify what class you took at 1st level. RIght now, you have HPs according to having Ranger at 1st, but skills as if you were Rogue. Not a big difference - but a difference you will need to resolve. Once you straighten that out, I think the character is all set.
waywreth 07-27-05, 09:28 AM	Bah thanks guys. My dex is too pathetic to make any ride checks anyway. I'll hold off for now until it becomes a major issue.
Zerone 07-27-05, 10:37 AM	@ Pitlords/Cat: 1. If I haven't used a HA trick with an animal I've trained yet (since they are still unsuable for my Level) can I give you the link and have you switch it on the FotW thread so I can take a different one? I was wrong on what was needed for Combat Riding. 2. Also, what is needed to change a feat that has never been used? Thanks for the info... *•. Z
Caterane 07-27-05, 10:41 AM	1) Send a PM to Pitlords with the link and the trick 2) My approval. Go ahead.
Zerone 07-27-05, 10:48 AM	1) Send a PM to Pitlords with the link and the trick 2) My approval. Go ahead. Thanks bud, and sorry for the extra work. Since its not important for this week's pairings, I'll try to get it to you today, but no need for you to hurry to get it done before the pairings. Just before next week is all I ask... :D *•. Z
Deadly Assassin 07-27-05, 11:28 AM	@Deadly Assassin - if you new character was active, I would post this to the character violations. You need to clarify what class you took at 1st level. RIght now, you have HPs according to having Ranger at 1st, but skills as if you were Rogue. Not a big difference - but a difference you will need to resolve. Once you straighten that out, I think the character is all set. Oops, thanks. I switched order he took levels in at the last moment and guess I forgot to switch the HP. Anything else, anyone?
SoulLord 07-27-05, 01:29 PM	two questions. 1.-what was the elder ruling on hiding in blurr? 2.-characters that have to wait out a week or two .. or three as their figths are re-run are at an increasing disadvantage compared to gladiators who don't have to sit out those weeks. what I propose is that for each week that the fight is postponed that both the winner and the loser get an extra 'losing' share of xp and gold. so for example two 3rd level gladiators wait 2 weeks before their fight is resolved in week 3. Winner would get 900+300+300 =1500 xp and gold And loser would get 300+300+300 = 900 xp and gold
nightbanegod 07-27-05, 06:16 PM	Ho Hum... .anyone care to play some POGO texas holdem while waiting for the pairings? ... im just getting antsy
TCB 07-27-05, 07:52 PM	I was wondering about all these Venerable Casters we are having with a Light load of 6lbs or less. If their Familair is on their body does that weight add up to this total? if it is on the ground then they need to stay near them for the alertness feat? also it says you cant fight while you are occupying the same square as a freindly under combat. Does this just protain to medium size with medium size characters?
MystErikEry 07-27-05, 07:58 PM	I think the only venerable caster out there is Rumplebucket :P A familiar would add its weight to the caster if it's held. It doesn't have to be held, though; it can even stay in the same square as the caster. From DMG p29 "Creatures two size categories apart can occupy the same space without special circumstances. Half the normal number of creatures can occupy the sapce as usual (fractions are not allowed)." Thus, a Medium character with a Tiny familiar can occupy the same space - the Tiny familiar is two size categories apart, and normally you can fit two Tiny creatures in one 5' space (as they have 2-1/2 ft. space). So, half that (one) can be in the same space as the Medium character.
Maraxus 07-27-05, 08:10 PM	Ah, I'm set for a 2vs.2. :eek: And ... I like it. :) The opponents definitly have odds, but so do we. I think team work will be essential for the victory. ;)
Vathelokai 07-28-05, 12:45 AM	Looks like I missed the pairings. Is there something I could be doing in the mean time with Jodan? Can I schedule a miniquest for this week, or do mq have the same deadline as pairings.
King Uther 07-28-05, 12:48 AM	@Vathelokai If Cat says it is okay, I can run you a MQ.
Gonbow 07-28-05, 01:32 AM	two questions. 1.-what was the elder ruling on hiding in blurr? There was a vote on it, but I don't recall any announcements being made afterwards, but it was pretty obvious that the majority think you cant (not RAW, but by the spirit of the rules/spell). Again, I'm not sure if that is the final word or not, but is what it looks like. 2.-characters that have to wait out a week or two .. or three as their figths are re-run are at an increasing disadvantage compared to gladiators who don't have to sit out those weeks. what I propose is that for each week that the fight is postponed that both the winner and the loser get an extra 'losing' share of xp and gold. Ehh... Not really. Someone at the beginning of an ECL is weaker than someone at the end, but the people at the end are constantly getting taken out of said ECL as they level up, so it works out.
MystErikEry 07-28-05, 05:17 AM	Aww, shucks. It looks like someone beat me to making a Commoner character. Heh. What NPC Classes haven't been used once yet? Adept? Expert? I suppose I could play as an even more lowly commoner, intentionally taking 10's in ability scores and using a sickle only, and raising Profession (Farmer) or somesuch, and just save up all of the gp earned... we'll say he's saving up to buy his wife a dirigible or something. XD Hmm, nah :D
Caterane 07-28-05, 06:58 AM	Thanks for all the praises. I appreciate it, and for that reason I've already ordered some t-shirts which you can buy from now on. Looks like that: http://eleo.de/pics/CAT_TS25-7000.jpg 20 bucks! :D
Luni 07-28-05, 11:28 AM	T-Shirts! Wait, does it say COre COliseum on the front, and "Praise the great Pitlord Caterane" on the back?
King Uther 07-28-05, 11:33 AM	The EHTC is now 21 members strong! And it seems we are only set to grow further. So, if you like the idea of having a character roleplayed into an evil guild with real aspirations, then you're welcome to. For all you good characters, you might go to the trouble of counterbalancing us. Or not.
King Uther 07-28-05, 11:35 AM	By the way, Half-Giant Psywars always seem to get good win records.
LLMadCow 07-28-05, 12:38 PM	There was a vote on it, but I don't recall any announcements being made afterwards, but it was pretty obvious that the majority think you cant (not RAW, but by the spirit of the rules/spell). Again, I'm not sure if that is the final word or not, but is what it looks like. Well I have for you: AN ANSWER! An answer to what? They question everyone asks about Hide and Blur. And, since it is part of my trademark, and for clarity of the response, I present to you VAST AMOUNTS OF THE SRD! PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO ANYTHING IN RED! Blur Illusion (Glamer) Level: Brd 2,Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Creature touched Duration: 1 min./level (D) Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) The subject’s outline appears blurred, shifting and wavering. This distortion grants the subject concealment (20% miss chance). A see invisibility spell does not counteract the blur effect, but a true seeing spell does. Opponents that cannot see the subject ignore the spell’s effect (though fighting an unseen opponent carries penalties of its own). Okay, so Blur makes the subject APPEAR different. The subject of Blur LOOKS different. When we VIEW THE SUBJECT OF BLUR, THEY LOOK DIFFERENT; specifically, there is a VISUAL DISTORTION and they APPEAR BLURRED. The distortion also grants concealment - yipiee! HIDE (DEX; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY) Check: Your Hide check is opposed by the Spot check of anyone who might see you. You can move up to one-half your normal speed and hide at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than one-half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty. It’s practically impossible (–20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging. A creature larger or smaller than Medium takes a size bonus or penalty on Hide checks depending on its size category: Fine +16, Diminutive +12, Tiny +8, Small +4, Large –4, Huge –8, Gargantuan –12, Colossal –16. You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway. If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide. You can run around a corner or behind cover so that you’re out of sight and then hide, but the others then know at least where you went. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check; see below), though, you can attempt to hide. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Hide check if you can get to a hiding place of some kind. (As a general guideline, the hiding place has to be within 1 foot per rank you have in Hide.) This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast. Sniping: If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a –20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot. Creating a Diversion to Hide: You can use Bluff to help you hide. A successful Bluff check can give you the momentary diversion you need to attempt a Hide check while people are aware of you. Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action. However, hiding immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action. Special: If you are invisible, you gain a +40 bonus on Hide checks if you are immobile, or a +20 bonus on Hide checks if you’re moving. If you have the Stealthy feat, you get a +2 bonus on Hide checks. A 13th-level ranger can attempt a Hide check in any sort of natural terrain, even if it doesn’t grant cover or concealment. A 17th-level ranger can do this even while being observed. Wow. So, Hide is pretty cool, especially for Rangers, but you cannot hide if people are observing you, even casually. So, if people are LOOKING AT YOU, AND CAN OBSERVE THAT YOU ARE THE SUBJECT OF A BLUR SPELL ('cause they can visually observe the distortion of your outline), YOU CANNOT HIDE, but they might not want to shoot arrows at you since you have concealment. :) LL If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide.
Caterane 07-28-05, 12:45 PM	@WizO_Shadow: Please deactivate size7!
LLMadCow 07-28-05, 01:10 PM	@WizO_Shadow: Please deactivate size7! No. Please don't. I need my Size 7. It's good. I don't complain when people use the entire pallet of smilies! Really, some of those posts have a TON of smilies. And what about those posts with WAY TOO MUCH COLOR? Come on?
Pitlords 07-28-05, 01:55 PM	@ALL: I have added all VERMIN from the Monster Manual and the Brain Mole, Folugub, and Gray Glutton from the Psihandbook to the FAQ: Cohorts and Allies (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466763). They can now be miniquested and tamed with the Handle Animal Skill.
madner 07-28-05, 02:18 PM	By the way, Half-Giant Psywars always seem to get good win records. Hi all, :) Half-Giants are a wetdream, they have nice stats modifiers, plus every possible advantage of size large without any malus. Sounds like a winning combination, especially on lower levels. :D
Sindorin 07-28-05, 02:22 PM	Because of Size 7, Brian should never be able to hide either. :D
Malither76 07-28-05, 05:07 PM	Agreed Sindorin :), but we are in agreement that a level 13 ranger or a level 5thief/8assassin could hide using blur, b/c of the hide in plain sight thingy right :)
Gonbow 07-28-05, 06:21 PM	If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide. Ya know. I stopped arguing about this after the elders voted, but I'll say it again if this is why it was decided this way. Hiding while being observed has NEVER BEEN THE ISSUE. The issue is, hiding WHILE NOT BEING OBSERVED, and then REMAINING hidden via CONCEALMENT. Which is what CONCEALMENT is supposed to do. And what it does according to the rules. I won't use size seven, but just caps ^_^ All that said, my opinion doesn't particularly matter, so if it seems as though I'm not getting it; don't worry about trying to explain it again.
Caterane 07-29-05, 06:35 AM	@Campaignlords: If one of your players levels up, please write a PM to Pitlords! Same for the campaign players: if you see your character in the wrong league, write a PM. Thanks
Beldin 07-29-05, 12:35 PM	Blur grants concealment, so you can hide if you are under a blur effect. If someone has such a Powerstone: 2x Powerstone of Energy Adaption, Specified [(ML3)][.2 lbs][300gp] Shouldn't he specify against what Enegy-type the power stone grants resistance? The power is already manifested when the power stone is created. So the creator of the stone has to specify the Enegy type, not the "user". At least that was was I believed.
sloisel 07-29-05, 12:42 PM	Hello! Last I played with you guys, my character got disqualified for having the Tattoo Focus feat (which is apparently now legal), so lemme ask a couple of questions before I make similar mistakes. 1) Do the rods of metamagic function on psionic powers? A strict reading of the transparency rule http://d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#psionicsMagicT ransparency would indicate so, since magical items are explicitly listed (although feats per se don't benefit from transparency.) 2) Are cognizance crystals automatically full, or must I fill them from my prebuff limit of 1/3 my daily power point allotment? Do power points drawn from cognizance crystals in the arena count against my 1/3 PP use limit in-arena? Cheers, Sebastien Loisel
sloisel 07-29-05, 12:46 PM	Blur grants concealment, so you can hide if you are under a blur effect. Shouldn't he specify against what Enegy-type the power stone grants resistance? The power is already manifested when the power stone is created. So the creator of the stone has to specify the Enegy type, not the "user". At least that was was I believed. That's my understanding of those two rules as well. Sebastien Loisel
Altaris13 07-29-05, 12:50 PM	I refer you to Madcow's post above. You cannot hide while being observed unless you have a class feature that says otherwise. ;) PS: I know of no item that allows you to hide while in plain sight.
Prince FyreDragon 07-29-05, 01:08 PM	:OMG! :rolleye2: :surrender :yuck: :rant: :censored: :tantrum: :banghead: :headexplo :hoppingma Yanno....that above post was just enough to consider making an evil character just so I can go on assassination attempts on MadCow's characters for bringing Size 7 to popularity. :invasion:
Caterane 07-29-05, 01:10 PM	Hello! Last I played with you guys, my character got disqualified for having the Tattoo Focus feat (which is apparently now legal), so lemme ask a couple of questions before I make similar mistakes. 1) Do the rods of metamagic function on psionic powers? A strict reading of the transparency rule http://d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#psionicsMagicT ransparency would indicate so, since magical items are explicitly listed (although feats per se don't benefit from transparency.) 2) Are cognizance crystals automatically full, or must I fill them from my prebuff limit of 1/3 my daily power point allotment? Do power points drawn from cognizance crystals in the arena count against my 1/3 PP use limit in-arena? Cheers, Sebastien Loisel - The Tattoo Focus feat is now legal - Metamagic rods do not function with psionic powers - Cognize crystals must be filled with the Prebuff PP (which is 1/3) but they are not subject to the 1/3 rule (same ruling as with Lay on Hands some weeks ago). Re: Specified energy adaption: should be specified if bought as a stone or tattoo. Re: Blur: This is RAW vs RAI (Rules as Intended). With a complex system such as d20, no designer can think of every little hole in the system. I am sure the designers did not intend to allow to hide while blurred. I would say let the Elders vote but there are only 3 left. I'll discuss it with Pittbull, MadCow, and Sindorin, adding Tellish's mustard, and mine on top of that so that we have 5 voices, and we go with the result.
Altaris13 07-29-05, 01:48 PM	@FyreD... :D I just couldn't resist, sorry...
Altaris13 07-29-05, 02:14 PM	What happens when a medium character uses a large weapon with reach? The reach weapon gives them a total reach of 10 feet, 2 squares. Does a large version add another 5foot square? Also, I know I couldn't use it here in the CoCo, but does Monkey Grip stack with Powerful Build? IE, could a Half-giant use a Huge Greatsword at the -2 penalty? Any care to answer these questions? The answer to the first question is for a second character I'm thinking of making.
TelinArtho 07-29-05, 02:19 PM	I might have an error on my character (nothing serious), but how much is a Tattoo of Skate? I thought it was 50gp, but some people have it listed as 100gp. If it is not 50gp, where does it say how to figure it out (I keep hearing about the price being doubled for personal spells)? thanks /d
Cerebus13 07-29-05, 02:22 PM	Any care to answer these questions? The answer to the first question is for a second character I'm thinking of making.A Large version of a reach weapon still has the same amount of reach I believe. However reach gained from being Large or somesuch stacks with Reach from a weapon, so you could get 15' reach on a Large Ogre with a Glaive. I have no idea if Monkey Grip would stack with Powerful Build, but I doubt it.
Gonbow 07-29-05, 02:26 PM	I might have an error on my character (nothing serious), but how much is a Tattoo of Skate? I thought it was 50gp, but some people have it listed as 100gp. If it is not 50gp, where does it say how to figure it out (I keep hearing about the price being doubled for personal spells)? thanks /d Skate is a personal or touch-range spell. If you get the personal version, it's 100 gp. If you get the touch version, it's 50 gp. Both are funcationally identical, so get the 50 gp version ;)
sloisel 07-29-05, 02:26 PM	Originally Posted by Altaris13 What happens when a medium character uses a large weapon with reach? The reach weapon gives them a total reach of 10 feet, 2 squares. Does a large version add another 5foot square? I think I know the answer to that one. The books repeat in several places that reach weapon double a creature's natural reach. If you're a medium creature, you have a 5' reach. Aside from the whip, wielding any kind of reach weapon (regardless of its size) will double it to 10', but then you can't hit anything within 5'. The whip is special, giving you a reach of exactly 15' regardless of size, with special rules like not being able to make attacks of opportunity. Caterane, thanks for your reply. Sebastien Loisel
TelinArtho 07-29-05, 02:35 PM	Skate is a personal or touch-range spell. If you get the personal version, it's 100 gp. If you get the touch version, it's 50 gp. Both are funcationally identical, so get the 50 gp version ;) Okay then - where does it say that personal spell tattoos get doubled (that's my actual question...)?
sloisel 07-29-05, 02:53 PM	I might have an error on my character (nothing serious), but how much is a Tattoo of Skate? I thought it was 50gp, but some people have it listed as 100gp. If it is not 50gp, where does it say how to figure it out (I keep hearing about the price being doubled for personal spells)? thanks /d Can someone educate me as to what's special about tattoos (or powerstones?) and personal spells? Sebastien Loisel
SoulLord 07-29-05, 03:21 PM	Okay then - where does it say that personal spell tattoos get doubled (that's my actual question...)? I had the same question some time ago from the srd here it is Creating Psionic Tattoos The creator of a psionic tattoo must have a patch of uncovered skin free of hair and fur, and at least a few containers in which to mix dyes. In addition, he needs special materials, usually to create dyes. The costs for materials and dyes are subsumed in the cost for scribing the psionic tattoo— 25 gp × the level of the power × the level of the manifester. All ingredients and materials used to scribe a psionic tattoo must be fresh and unused. The character must pay the full cost for scribing each psionic tattoo. (Economies of scale do not apply.) The user of the psionic tattoo is both the manifester and the target; therefore, powers that target another creature cannot be stored in psionic tattoo form. Powers with a range of personal can be made into psionic tattoos, but they cost double the price of standard psionic tattoos. The creator must know the power to be placed in the psionic tattoo (or must have the power available in some other form). If manifesting the power would reduce the manifester’s XP total, he pays the XP cost upon beginning the scribing in addition to the experience point cost for making the psionic tattoo itself. The act of scribing triggers the power as if it had been manifested, costing the character an appropriate number of power points. Scribing a psionic tattoo requires one day. Item Creation Feat Required Scribe Tattoo.
Caterane 07-29-05, 03:26 PM	Re: Weapon Size: The size of a weapon has no impact on its reach. A colossal greatsword wielded by the medium character still has only 5ft reach, although it does much more damage ...if you can hold it. Re: Tattoo Prices: See Psihandbook, page 182
Altaris13 07-29-05, 03:44 PM	RE: Weapon size & reach. :weep: So much for that idea... Large-sized half-giant with a huge glaive & combat reflexes... "I coulda been a contenda!!!"
sloisel 07-29-05, 03:48 PM	Re: Tattoo Prices: See Psihandbook, page 182 Thanks. Sebastien Loisel
Prince FyreDragon 07-29-05, 03:51 PM	Alright....two more characters for perusal, battery, and criticism LOL....take a peak and find my mistakes.
Gonbow 07-29-05, 03:54 PM	RE: Weapon size & reach. :weep: So much for that idea... Large-sized half-giant with a huge glaive & combat reflexes... "I coulda been a contenda!!!" 20 foot reach with a huge spiked chain and improved trip isn't enough? TWINK! ^_^
Altaris13 07-29-05, 04:02 PM	20 foot reach with a huge spiked chain and improved trip isn't enough? TWINK! ^_^ LOL!!! *looks left* *looks rights* AM NOT!!! :angelhide :D
KerlanRayne 07-29-05, 04:04 PM	Re: Specified energy adaption: should be specified if bought as a stone or tattoo.But Stones are just like scrolls, so decisions aren't made until manifestation time right? KerlanRayne
Prince FyreDragon 07-29-05, 04:10 PM	But Stones are just like scrolls, so decisions aren't made until manifestation time right? KerlanRayne I would think that the type of energy would need to be declared when the item, be it stone or scroll, is purchased, since I am sure that the type of energy expended is part of the spell/manifestation, thus making each different type of energy scroll/stone slightly different from it's counterparts.
MystErikEry 07-29-05, 04:28 PM	I have a question. Is Tattoo Focus available only to humans? The feat listed in the DMG says that it requires only: a) specialization in a school of magic, and b) region: Thay. The Red Wizard Class, on the other hand, does indeed require being a Human from Thay. So would it be possible to have a non-human with Tattoo Focus, who simply never actually becomes a Red Wizard? Edit: Oh yes, I have another question. Is it possible to coup de grace with a "held charge" Touch spell? It says you can coup de grace using a full-round action with a melee weapon, and I believe that "using a touch spell" is considered a melee weapon (since you are considered armed with it, and it can critical hit just like ordinary attacks). Could it therefore be considered a weapon for the purposes of coup de grace? Obviously a ranged touch attack spell can't work this way, since a coup de grace is a full-round action and there's no way to cast a spell while taking a full-round action ... unless it's Quickened? How about that, can you coup de grace (if within 5') with a Quickened ranged touch attack spell?
Altaris13 07-29-05, 04:44 PM	I would think that the type of energy would need to be declared when the item, be it stone or scroll, is purchased, since I am sure that the type of energy expended is part of the spell/manifestation, thus making each different type of energy scroll/stone slightly different from it's counterparts. This is correct as I've always known it. In fact, this applies to all "choices." Scroll of X, Stone of Y, or Potion of Z, it makes no difference. Scroll of Energy Resistance: Fire Tatoo of Synsthete: Feel Sound Potion of Alterself: white-haired goblin Pamela Anderson look-a-like
MystErikEry 07-29-05, 04:48 PM	Quote SRD: "Determine Effect: A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way." A Resist Energy spell prepared and cast the normal way lets you choose the resisted energy at the time of casting, so a scroll of Resist Energy should be the same. Likewise...
nightbanegod 07-29-05, 08:49 PM	@prince fyredragon Sooooooo.......... exactly HOW many characters do you make a week? and do you even plan on running them all since i think thats going to take some serious credits.... dude just pick like 2 characters and work on em... you dont need your own personal army....
Prince FyreDragon 07-29-05, 08:59 PM	@prince fyredragon Sooooooo.......... exactly HOW many characters do you make a week? and do you even plan on running them all since i think thats going to take some serious credits.... dude just pick like 2 characters and work on em... you dont need your own personal army.... I make characters whenever inspiration strikes. Since there is no limit to how many characters you can make here, I don't think it really matters whether I make 2 or 22, as long as they are played periodically. As for my own personal army, I'll direct you to my sig. In the future, I will ask that you please not judge how someone chooses to participate in this forum. I take no offense, but others may not be as understanding....and frankly, it's not polite.
nightbanegod 07-29-05, 09:03 PM	no beef... just sayin.... i would think that playing a higher lvl character vs a few lower lvl characters would be funner... so playin a character weekly would be fastest way to that state ... just my 2cp
Prince FyreDragon 07-29-05, 09:17 PM	no beef... just sayin.... i would think that playing a higher lvl character vs a few lower lvl characters would be funner... so playin a character weekly would be fastest way to that state ... just my 2cp I would tend to agree with you, however, while I am here to do exactly that, I also use this place as a way to brush up on rules that I am not as familiar with as I would like to be, or to test various builds for their viability in certain situations. That is the reason for my first 4 characters....my current 4 are to help me get familiar with psionics, of which I know next to nothing having never played it before. So those will probably be around for awhile. Besides....how cool is it to have one member of every base psionic class on your own personal army? LOL
Vathelokai 07-29-05, 09:38 PM	I would think that the type of energy would need to be declared when the item, be it stone or scroll, is purchased, since I am sure that the type of energy expended is part of the spell/manifestation, thus making each different type of energy scroll/stone slightly different from it's counterparts. The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires. If casting the spell would reduce the caster’s XP total, she pays the cost upon beginning the scroll in addition to the XP cost for making the scroll itself. Likewise, a material component is consumed when she begins writing, but a focus is not. (A focus used in scribing a scroll can be reused.) The act of writing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from her currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.) I've always taken this to mean that any choices must be made when the spell is cast into the scroll. I believe the idea is that it is cast at the time the scroll is made, and the scroll holds it in stasis until used.
Prince FyreDragon 07-29-05, 09:55 PM	I've always taken this to mean that any choices must be made when the spell is cast into the scroll. I believe the idea is that it is cast at the time the scroll is made, and the scroll holds it in stasis until used. Yep....that's what I meant by it being declared when the item is purchased....meaning that if you were to walk in to Joe's Magic shop, you could buy Resist Energy (Cold), Resist Energy (Fire), etc., because it has already been decided at the time the scroll was created, and thus should be listed on your character sheet at the time you purchase it.
nightbanegod 07-29-05, 10:32 PM	Determine Effect: A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way. Assume the scroll spell’s caster level is always the minimum level required to cast the spell for the character who scribed the scroll (usually twice the spell’s level, minus 1), unless the caster specifically desires otherwise. so by this effect... when you finish casting a spell from a scroll you determine the effective energy resistance since thats what you do when you finish casting the regular spell as well
Prince FyreDragon 07-29-05, 10:38 PM	so by this effect... when you finish casting a spell from a scroll you determine the effective energy resistance since thats what you do when you finish casting the regular spell as well I disagree...because you finish casting the spell when the scroll is made...that is how it gets onto the scroll. All that is required to activate the scroll is to read what is already there. Since all you are doing is reading what is there, the type of energy for the spell would have to be on the scroll as well, otherwise you would not know how to add that to the spell. By your logic, I should also be able to buy a scroll of a hold spell and later determine, at the time I use the scroll, whether I want to hold a person, hold a monster, or hold an animal. Doesn't work that way. The spell is complete on the scroll. All you are doing is reading what is already there.
nightbanegod 07-29-05, 10:46 PM	heh...Coincidentally, the spell of hold person is only capable of holding a person in the first place however the spell hold monster can affect any living creature so you may feel free to target anyone with the spell upon completion... and on a side note by your logic then something like the following would happen everything about the spell is determined when the spell is scribed => you buy said scroll which happens to be a fireball spell => upon reading the scroll you are simply triggering the spell to go off as the original caster had specified => fireball detonates in your face since the caster was a vindictive :censored: .... now with your logic you cannot do anything about that since YOU DETERMINE NOTHING ABOUT THE SCROLL.. YOU SIMPLY HAVE IT GO OFF
Prince FyreDragon 07-29-05, 10:56 PM	heh...Coincidentally, the spell of hold person is only capable of holding a person in the first place however the spell hold monster can affect any living creature so you may feel free to target anyone with the spell upon completion... and on a side note by your logic then something like the following would happen everything about the spell is determined when the spell is scribed => you buy said scroll which happens to be a fireball spell => upon reading the scroll you are simply triggering the spell to go off as the original caster had specified => fireball detonates in your face since the caster was a vindictive :censored: .... now with your logic you cannot do anything about that since YOU DETERMINE NOTHING ABOUT THE SCROLL.. YOU SIMPLY HAVE IT GO OFF That is exactly my point. You determine nothing about the scroll....you simply have it go off. So a Resist Energy scroll will not have the type of energy resistance determined by you at time of use...it will be determined at the time the scroll is made. You are just having the scroll of Resist Energy go off....for whatever type of energy the scroll was written for. How would a person who did not make the scroll know how to modify the scroll to suit his own needs? Or how would you modify a power that has already been manifested into a stone? A rogue using the Use Magic Device skill would not know anything about magic, other than how to wing it well enough to use the scroll. He would not know what was necessary to modify a spell stored in a scroll to cast a Resist Energy spell based upon the type of energy he specifies. So if he has no knowledge of how to alter the spell in the scroll, how is he going to make it give him the resistance he wants? No skill will do that....no feat will do that. It's because the type of energy resistance has already been put into the spell at the time the scroll was made.
Gonbow 07-29-05, 11:14 PM	This seems to work well for some people, so I'll try it. Warning: Massive SRD cut/pasting about to begin. Scribing scrolls! What is it? Well, a mage goes through the motions of casting a spell, essentially doing everything BUT the last step of the spell, while sealing it into a piece of paper. This is different from say, making a wonderous item that can cast the spell, as that involves casting the spell into the item, then giving it enough juice to produce the effect multiple times later, or say, infusing a effect into a one-time use potion. Speaking of potions, here are the rules for creating them, basically. BREW POTION [ITEM CREATION] Prerequisite: Caster level 3rd. Benefit: You can create a potion of any 3rd-level or lower spell that you know and that targets one or more creatures. Brewing a potion takes one day. When you create a potion, you set the caster level, which must be sufficient to cast the spell in question and no higher than your own level. The base price of a potion is its spell level x its caster level x 50 gp. To brew a potion, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one half this base price. When you create a potion, you make any choices that you would normally make when casting the spell. Whoever drinks the potion is the target of the spell. Any potion that stores a spell with a costly material component or an XP cost also carries a commensurate cost. In addition to the costs derived from the base price, you must expend the material component or pay the XP when creating the potion. Emphasis mine of course. Now what does this how to do with scrolls? Well, not much directly, except to provide a example of how all-choices-made-at-creation crafting works. Now, lets look at the rules for making scrolls: SCRIBE SCROLL [ITEM CREATION] Prerequisite: Caster level 1st. Benefit: You can create a scroll of any spell that you know. Scribing a scroll takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. The base price of a scroll is its spell level x its caster level x 25 gp. To scribe a scroll, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one-half of this base price. Any scroll that stores a spell with a costly material component or an XP cost also carries a commensurate cost. In addition to the costs derived from the base price, you must expend the material component or pay the XP when scribing the scroll. Note the complete lack of the line describing the choice of the spell and how it must be determined at the creation. Going over the various rules for magic items in the SRD, we can find other tidbits describing the use of scrolls. But to settle this once and for all.. look at the list of randomly determined scrolls in the SRD. You'll notice a abundance of attack spells, including Magic Missile. Now, how could someone decide days, weeks or years before hand what is going to be the target of the magic missile? They cant. This one of the reasons psionic tattoos and potions are not very effective as offensive weapons, but scrolls and wands ARE. So the person with a scroll of resist energy gets to choose what energy type they are protected from when they complete the spell on the scroll. Potions of Alter Self are a different matter however, as per the SRD qoute above.
Mind Rogue 07-29-05, 11:16 PM	A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way If a spell has multiple versions, you choose which version to use when you cast it. You don't have to prepare (...) a specific version of the spell. So, a scroll works exactly like a prepared spell does, and with a prepared spell, you make any decision about the spell when you actually cast it. I'm actually pretty sure there is a spot somewhere that says that you don't have to actually make the decisions (such as what monster to summon or energy to resist) until the spell actually goes off, but I can't find it right now. Also, potions specifically say the energy type, or whatever must be chosen when the potion is brewed, but scrolls have no such stipulation. End Result: Scrolls work exactly like prepared spells: you choose what energy type to resist when you actually use the scroll.
nightbanegod 07-29-05, 11:40 PM	ok both mind rogue and gonbow have valid points so lets just let the matter settle as that... you CAN chose what energy type for resistance when you use the scroll... and for that matter you need at least a spell casting class or use magic device skill to be able to use a scroll in the first place... so if your going by that type of logic then you can cast spells and therefore know how to alter the scroll when its used and if you can only really use magic devices as the skill stipulates then you just seem to have a knack of being able to alter magic devices successfully ... and your more likely to not be able to use the scroll or wand or whatever if you only have the skill as a rogue does...
Caterane 07-30-05, 04:26 AM	Scrolls do not need to specify which version of the same spell is being cast. They are Spell Completion items, that means the spell is mostly finished but not completely. The final activation, along with eventual choices, are being made by the caster. When was the last time you've found a scroll of summon 1d4+1 hippogriffs? As a reference, use Mind Rogue's quotes, plus DMG,p213 on Spell Completion Activation. A potion however is a completely finished spell which must be specified.
KerlanRayne 07-30-05, 04:55 AM	Re: Specified energy adaption: should be specified if bought as a stone or tattoo.This is the statement that started all this. Power Stones are just like scrolls, so you don't have to specify an Energy type until manifestation time. KerlanRayne
Caterane 07-30-05, 05:21 AM	Oops, forget about the stone part. Anyhow I included them. :eek: I was referring to tattoos only.
Pitlords 07-30-05, 11:21 AM	@all: I think we should bring Monster fights back as we have some good suggestions on dungeon maps. The offer of a dungeon map for monster fights is still up (1° per map). Until then, we will go with Vathelokai's map. Also, can someone please make a printable code map out of this one? http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/Vathelokai/cavern.jpg Since this is much more difficult than avoiding melee by flying in the arena, the difficulty will be dropped to your ECL-1 (DMG,p79-81). Notes: Ceiling is at 15ft; the platforms in the corners are the starting boxes (no other function). Water is 5ft deep. Statues are cover. @Vathelokai: Can you please substitute the letters with numbers? And if possible, please turn the big statues into similar directions. Looks better.
Tellish_of_Ket 07-30-05, 11:34 AM	That is a very sezzy map. -ToK
Pittbull 07-30-05, 11:34 AM	@all: I think we should bring Monster fights back as we have some good suggestions on dungeon maps. The offer of a dungeon map for monster fights is still up (1° per map). Until then, we will go with Vathelokai's map. Also, can someone please make a printable code map out of this one? :love: :love: :love:
xanadu 07-30-05, 01:06 PM	Wow. Map looks good & creepy!
Gonbow 07-30-05, 01:19 PM	Random Lycanthropy questions: Given the rules thread, non-standard lycanthropes are allowed yes? (By non-standard, I means lycanthropes of any animal not given a stat-block in the lycanthrope entry) (Imagine it, the Wereweasal! Blood sucking extraordinare.) Can aquatic lycanthropes breathe air while in hybrid form? If one faces a natural lycanthrope in the arena, and contracts the curse during the battle, it wears off at the end as a bonus of the nimbus, yes? (This provides an incentive for were-creatures to live in gladius, for large parts of the town they simply CANT spread the curse).
Gonbow 07-30-05, 02:17 PM	Printable code version of Vath's map is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6835824). Anything but fancy at the moment; if you want color/different ascii symbols to be used Cat, just describe what you want and I'll edit it appropriately.
Pitlords 07-30-05, 02:41 PM	Hey thanks Gonbow. I'll give you a credit for it. Could you please color it? Like the standard arena code map. - Coordinates red - Boxes olive with a purple A, B, C, D in the center - Water navy - all other squares royalblue EDIT: added the map to the Characters thread. I've changed the pond depth to 1 ft for simplicities sake.
Gonbow 07-30-05, 04:08 PM	Hey thanks Gonbow. I'll give you a credit for it. Could you please color it? Like the standard arena code map. - Coordinates red - Boxes olive with a purple A, B, C, D in the center - Water navy - all other squares royalblue EDIT: added the map to the Characters thread. I've changed the pond depth to 1 ft for simplicities sake. Fully colorized. Walls are uncolored, statues are silver (The cover in the arena is black, but the silver font in character sheets are all but impossible to see on a white background, so I have mine set to a black background. Now guess what is impossible to see.. ^_^), squares are royalblue, starting boxes are olive with purple letters and coordinates are in red. Pond depth to 1 ft? Damn. Here I was hoping monster battles with demi-aquatic creatures and/or a use for water breathing spells would actually happen outside of a campaign/quest/miniquest ;)
Vathelokai 07-30-05, 07:17 PM	Alterations to the map (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6732606&postcount=61) have been added. The text in the Maps Thread has been changed to fit the discription given by pitlords. I did like the idea of the pool being deeper, though. Bullrushing heavily armored foes into the water, or haveing huge aquatic tentacle beasts sitting in the center of it really appealed to me. Thanks for using my map (and tip o' the hat to Gonbow). I should have another up soon.
Gonbow 07-30-05, 07:35 PM	Hmm... The map is no longer symetrical (sp?); Is that intentional? If so, I'll update the code version sometime later tonight.
Vathelokai 07-30-05, 07:39 PM	Actually the locations of the statues haven't changed. The cave walls N,E,S,W were always a little non-symetrical, to add to that cave feel.
Pitlords 07-30-05, 09:01 PM	Thanks to both Gonbow and Vathelokai! That was awesome work! I have altered Gonbow's map a bit. The statues were a bit too much to the left, the coordinates began from the top not bottom, and I've changed the statue colors to dimgray, and the arena floor to skyblue. Vathelokai's map will be made symethrical soon. Initially, the pool was deeper and I've already written up the description along with underwater rules but that is really complicated. There are so many things to consider, and pitlords may not be used to underwater combat, or water vs land for example. There are also many modifiers that apply in different situations. And finally, if the pool is deep, then there is no real open combat zone on the map. With the pool being only 1 ft, the center of the map qualifies as such; you just cannot charge through the pond. Again, thanks guys! I have a question: how many hitpoints would the large and the medium statues have, respectively? PHB says Stone = 15/inch. Any ideas?
Vathelokai 07-30-05, 09:21 PM	The map is now symetrical. The rough look on the walls makes it look like it might be off, but it is. My guess on the statues: small - 3 ft diameter at thickest point - 540 hp (limbs probably half that) - 6 inches at thinest - 90 hp large - 8 ft dia. at thickest - 1440 hp - 1 ft at thinest 180 hp If someone just triest to crush the thing out of their way, use the thickest. If someone is trying to break the thing off at the legs, then use the thinest. Those numbers seem a bit high though. Does anyone have a better idea? I say make them adamantine or magic and treat them like any other unbreakable wall. Easiest that way.
Gonbow 07-30-05, 09:30 PM	Thanks to both Gonbow and Vathelokai! That was awesome work! I have altered Gonbow's map a bit. The statues were a bit too much to the left, the coordinates began from the top not bottom, and I've changed the statue colors to dimgray, and the arena floor to skyblue. Well, if you wanted skyblue, I could have made it such! You said royal! :P Vathelokai's map will be made symethrical soon. Cavey is all well and good, but yeah, for a arena... equal starting positions is very important. Initially, the pool was deeper and I've already written up the description along with underwater rules but that is really complicated. There are so many things to consider, and pitlords may not be used to underwater combat, or water vs land for example. There are also many modifiers that apply in different situations. And finally, if the pool is deep, then there is no real open combat zone on the map. With the pool being only 1 ft, the center of the map qualifies as such; you just cannot charge through the pond. Good points, and I figured the reason was something along these lines. But having the option was cool :P Again, thanks guys! I have a question: how many hitpoints would the large and the medium statues have, respectively? PHB says Stone = 15/inch. Any ideas? Well, if it was a solid cube of stone, it would have 1080000 hit points. That is quite obviously, alot. Assume it fills up about half of it's space and it is 540000. Any less than that and it doesn't really block LOS, but it would give cover (yay). Putting it at a third (a bulky humanoid statue, I think) is 360000 and a fourth (average humanoid statue) 270000. Of course, that is hps to completely and utterly reduce it to dust. I'd say 500 to break it in half. At 5' high, the small statues would have 360-720 hps total. I'd say 20-40 hps to break em in half. That's just my opinion though, stone seems to have a very high amount of hit points. Hmm. Animate Object anyone?
Mind Rogue 07-30-05, 10:59 PM	I have a question: how many hitpoints would the large and the medium statues have, respectively? PHB says Stone = 15/inch. Any ideas? [/COLOR] Well, if it was a solid cube of stone, it would have 1080000 hit points. That is quite obviously, alot. Assume it fills up about half of it's space and it is 540000. Any less than that and it doesn't really block LOS, but it would give cover (yay). Putting it at a third (a bulky humanoid statue, I think) is 360000 and a fourth (average humanoid statue) 270000. Of course, that is hps to completely and utterly reduce it to dust. I'd say 500 to break it in half. At 5' high, the small statues would have 360-720 hps total. I'd say 20-40 hps to break em in half. That's just my opinion though, stone seems to have a very high amount of hit points. Hmm. Animate Object anyone? The height wouldn't have anything to do with the number of Hp the statue has, unless you're trying to smash down upon it. However, since most statues are more likely to be hit in a different manner, it is probably best to judge from the front to back (since that is how it is most likely to snap). If the statue is a life size human, it's going to probably be around 8 inches thick (I know that I'm not that thick), which gives it 120 hp. A more delicate statue (such as an elf) might have as little as half that, while larger statues will have more. One of those statues that occupies the same space as a large creature could feasibly be four or five times the amount (up to 40 inches or about 3 1/2 ft), with the rest of the space being it's arms in a pose, any equipment it is depicted with, or just space for a gladiator to take for cover. Keep in mind that I'm gauging it's thickness and not how broad or tall it is. That Large statue is likely to be 10' tall (or more), but that doesn't shield it from being destroyed. Likewise, the 8" thick human statue might be 6' tall and 2 1/2' broad, but it is most fragile in the depth direction, and thus that is how we measure it's hp.
MystErikEry 07-31-05, 12:51 AM	I have a question. Is Tattoo Focus available only to humans? The feat listed in the DMG says that it requires only: a) specialization in a school of magic, and b) region: Thay. The Red Wizard Class, on the other hand, does indeed require being a Human from Thay. So would it be possible to have a non-human with Tattoo Focus, who simply never actually becomes a Red Wizard? Edit: Oh yes, I have another question. Is it possible to coup de grace with a "held charge" Touch spell? It says you can coup de grace using a full-round action with a melee weapon, and I believe that "using a touch spell" is considered a melee weapon (since you are considered armed with it, and it can critical hit just like ordinary attacks). Could it therefore be considered a weapon for the purposes of coup de grace? Obviously a ranged touch attack spell can't work this way, since a coup de grace is a full-round action and there's no way to cast a spell while taking a full-round action ... unless it's Quickened? How about that, can you coup de grace (if within 5') with a Quickened ranged touch attack spell? Just wondering if anyone caught this. XD It seems to have been ignored in the shuffle.
Vathelokai 07-31-05, 02:11 AM	Tatoo focus: yes you can. There is an elf necromancer about who has one. Coup de grace: I'm pretty sure you can. Touch spells count as melee atts, they don't even provoke AoO. I wouln't try it without an an elder putting their 2cp in.
King Uther 07-31-05, 02:15 AM	@ Vathelokai Yes, touch spells can CDG. Shocking Grasp, most notably.
Vathelokai 07-31-05, 02:39 AM	This started over on the Fight o' the Week thread.... I didn't realize there were so many feats for spell casters in the SRD: Divine: Feats (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/divineFeats.html). There's even some good stuff for stock fighters.
MystErikEry 07-31-05, 02:59 AM	This started over on the Fight o' the Week thread.... I didn't realize there were so many feats for spell casters in the SRD: Divine: Feats (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/divineFeats.html). There's even some good stuff for stock fighters. It says at the top that deities may take those feats in addition to standard feats... however, I'm not sure if that means only deities can. None of the Prerequisites say you do, and in fact, one of them only requires that you be sixth level (the Jack of All Trades feat). However, looking at those feats, none of them really seem all that exciting except for Persistant Spell (and that's for prebuffing) and Energy Substitution (Sonic).
King Uther 07-31-05, 03:01 AM	They are for all characters. And wouldn't divine characters take the Kill Your Character feat? Or the Don't Die feat?
Vathelokai 07-31-05, 03:05 AM	@Mysterikery: Umm...reach spell and repeat spell?
sloisel 07-31-05, 07:48 AM	I have four questions, one of which I think I know the answer: 1) It seems like characters are entering fights psionically focussed and with powerstones addressed without the necessary concentration and psicraft bonuses. It takes a concentration check DC 20 to become psionically focussed and a psicraft check DC 15+power level (so 16 or more) to address a powerstone. Hence it should take a concentration bonus of 10 to enter the arena psionically focussed, and a psicraft of 6 or more to address stones outside battle, if you need to take 10. However, the psionic characters I have seen enter the arena with stones addressed and psionically focussed, see e.g. Hagrid II's fight here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6329069 So obviously I don't understand how this works, and I'd like to before Wednesday because if I don't have to buy psicraft as a cross-class skill to a high level, I won't. Is it that the "must take 10" rule applies to crafting, and "can take 20" applies to prebuffs? 2) Are there any limitations to the masterwork tools skill selection? I know animal handling and riding is rather pervasive, but what about earplugs of concentration, glasses of spotting and camo clothes of hiding? 3) This is the one I think I can answer. Can I both empower and maximize my mind thrust by expending a single psionic focus? Can I activate both psionic weapon and deep impact with a single psionic focus? 4) If my psicrystal holds a psionic focus for me, can I activate both psionic weapon and deep impact by expending both our psionic foci? Can I apply both empower and maximize to mind thrust by applying both our psionic foci? Sebastien Loisel
Caterane 07-31-05, 09:00 AM	1) You can take 20 on the check and must pass Dc20 to become focused. 2) Yes, see FAQ: Skills and Feats (only Ride, HA, Craft, Profession, Perform, and any specifically mentioned in the books (eg alchemists lab)) 3) you can use your focus only once 4) Yes
Vathelokai 07-31-05, 09:13 AM	I was under the impression that you could take 20 to get psionicly focused. This was discussed (I think in the fight of the week july 20 thread) and the conclusion everyone came to is that, as long as you don't have a negative con mod, anyone can take 20 to get focused, since concentrate is an untrained skill. If you can only take 10, then what is to stop a char. from making a roll every hour for the entire week before the fight until they attain focus? *edit* Hey, no fair! Making my post pointless by editing...
Caterane 07-31-05, 09:18 AM	Yeah, Take 20, you can try all day
sloisel 07-31-05, 09:56 AM	Yeah, Take 20, you can try all day OK, then perhaps this text from the Skills and Feats FAQ needs to be modified: When using any skill outside of a fight or encounter, you're always assumed to be taking 10 (unless you can't take 10 on the skill in question, like Use Magic Device). And, might I ask, where's the line? How can I tell if I can take 20 on a skill or not? Cheers, Sebastien Loisel
Mind Rogue 07-31-05, 09:59 AM	Remember that you have to have a power point reserve to become focused. Otherwise, it would actually be a useful tool for spellcasters do to the often overlooked ability to expend your focus to treat any concentration check as though you rolled a 15, which is almost universally sufficient to pass the check (they almost certainly have 5+spell level ranks at this point, which allows them to do this to pass a check while DC 20 + spell level check to cast while grappling). Feasibly, it might be worth it for a wizard to take Wild Talent, just so he knows that he can get away with using dimension door if caught in a grapple.
Gonbow 07-31-05, 10:20 AM	Remember that you have to have a power point reserve to become focused. Otherwise, it would actually be a useful tool for spellcasters do to the often overlooked ability to expend your focus to treat any concentration check as though you rolled a 15, which is almost universally sufficient to pass the check (they almost certainly have 5+spell level ranks at this point, which allows them to do this to pass a check while DC 20 + spell level check to cast while grappling). Feasibly, it might be worth it for a wizard to take Wild Talent, just so he knows that he can get away with using dimension door if caught in a grapple. Not only that, but if he takes pbs and psi-shot he can use it with any spell that requires an attack roll. Assuming we are human, that means 1d3+2d6 frost ray at third level. Any takers? ^_^ Or you could just be an Elan. Or any of the other various psionic races.
Pitlords 07-31-05, 11:20 AM	From Arena Combat II: Psionic characters may pre-buff with their psionic focus, if they have a Concentration skill of at least +0 (assumed to take 20 on the check). I've added it to the skills FAQ.
sloisel 07-31-05, 12:03 PM	I've added it to the skills FAQ. Thanks. Although, you didn't add the one about taking 20 on the psicraft check for addressing powerstones. Can you also take 20 to "decipher the writing" on a scroll? This also makes a difference for my current and future characters since not all characters have access to read magic. (*) Sebastien Loisel (*) A strict reading of the rules doesn't let you skip the "decipher the writing" just because you know what's on the scroll. The writing on a scroll must be deciphered before a character can use it or know exactly what spell it contains. This requires a read magic spell or a successful Spellcraft check (DC 20 + spell level).
Pitlords 07-31-05, 12:06 PM	@all: The FAQ: Skills has been clarified. Concentration has been added, and a section about Tools and Masterwork Tools. Along with that I've made a slight modification to the skill rules which you can find in the FAQ: Skills and Feats (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466576). Changes are: A concrete list of all skills that benefit from Masterwork Tools, and the type of tool you need to buy. A list of all skills that suffer a -2 penalty if you lack basic tools. The Ride skill does not benefit from Masterwork tools anymore. The Military saddle still grants a +2 bonus to stay in saddle. If you want to have an item that grants a higher bonus, and/or a bonus to a skill that is not in the list, you can order it in the Blackmarket by paying credits (and the price of course). Those who have a masterwork RIDE tool may refund it for full price.
Pitlords 07-31-05, 01:30 PM	Now that we have many new members, I want to repeat the standing offer to gain credits for providing us with a good picture for the Pitlords Avatar (for this account here). You gain 1° per good suggestion, and 5° if it is the avatar we will choose. The Avatar should be unique, good-looking, and should be related to the CoCo. If you have an idea for the upcoming CoCo accounts 'Scribelords' and 'Prisonlords' (and later probably 'Guildlords'), please show us. All CoCo avatars should have a similar theme though!
Begferdeth 07-31-05, 02:15 PM	Can I play a lycanthrope without spending credits? Like, a wererat under the rules would be: (human+0)+(acquired lycanthrope+2)+(rat+1/8)+(1 class level)=3 1/8. Can I round that 1/8 down? Or do they have to be ECL 4?
Gonbow 07-31-05, 03:08 PM	Can I play a lycanthrope without spending credits? Like, a wererat under the rules would be: (human+0)+(acquired lycanthrope+2)+(rat+1/8)+(1 class level)=3 1/8. Can I round that 1/8 down? Or do they have to be ECL 4? You cant be a human that shapechanges into a rat. You have to be within 1 size category of the animal. Thus, you can be a human that shapechanges into a DIRE rat, which is what Wererats are. (This is why there are no ogre wererats as well) And dire rats have 1 HD, so you would be ECL 4 no matter which way you shake it. That said, you could be say, a Halfling werecat or were(normal)rat. And then this question would be legitimate. Because only humanoids and giants can become lycanthropes I don't think you can use any fine-sized animals as base creatures. I don't remember there being any tiny-sized humanoids in the SRD.. but I could be mistaken.
Luni 07-31-05, 03:23 PM	Weredogs! Weredogs! They get better bonuses that those pesky wererats! Weredogs: +2 str, +6 dex, +4 con ECL Afflicted Wererats: +6 dex, +2 con ECL 4 Afflicted :D Well, weredogs aren't better. You lose out on Weapon Finesse as a weredog. Depends what you want to make. :D
Gonbow 07-31-05, 03:40 PM	lol! I suppose. I like the idea of being a weredirecat or weresnake more than the idea of being a were .... dog.. I mean, take the number of dog jokes that werewolves have to deal with and multiply it times ten, add fleas for seasoning :P
Pitlords 07-31-05, 05:18 PM	Pittbull has just sent me a new picture of himself for the Core Coliseum Gallery (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4034076). I want to take this moment to inform you that we also want YOUR picture for the Gallery! If you have one on your HDD send it to me! The CoCo is probably the most personal board here and we all want to know how the others look like! So submit your picture!! @Huan & King Uther: Hey! You promised me your photo some weeks ago!!
sloisel 07-31-05, 05:57 PM	Now that we have many new members, I want to repeat the standing offer to gain credits for providing us with a good picture for the Pitlords Avatar (for this account here). Since 2003 (I think?) every time I look at the avatar you use, I think of Darkness in the movie Legend. Here's a picture of him. http://www.math.mcgill.ca/loisel/darkness.jpg There are some rather cool scene with that guy in the movie, it might be possible to get a good action shot, but at thumbnail size you might be better off with a face shot. There's one scene where he's got the protagonist pinned against the wall between his horns.
Pitlords 07-31-05, 06:25 PM	Two new pictures on one day! LLMadCow has finally repaired his webcam and submitted a picture. Behold it in the Core Coliseum Gallery (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4034076)! And take it as an example. YOU are next! @Sloisel: Looks cool. Legend? Never heard of that. Is it a good movie?
sloisel 07-31-05, 06:35 PM	@Sloisel: Looks cool. Legend? Never heard of that. Is it a good movie? Most people feel it's a mediocre movie, but I kinda like it. It's sort of a kiddie movie like the Goonies or Time Bandits or Howard the Duck (showing my age, here...) and a lot of people resent young Tom Cruise, who plays the protagonist. However, it is directed by Ridley Scott, who also directed Blade Runner, Thelma & Louise and Gladiator. The one thing I really like about it is that all the bad guys speak in rhymes. Sebastien Loisel
xanadu 07-31-05, 06:37 PM	Nevermind Zerone, who are his neighbors :D
Pitlords 07-31-05, 06:43 PM	Sloisel, do you still have those pictures of yourself you once posted?
sloisel 07-31-05, 06:45 PM	Technical question: when I tried to buy a deepcrystal large glaive in PCGen, the fact that it was large doubled the base price (8GP --> 16GP) and the MW cost (300GP --> 600GP) but not the deepcrystal +1000GP. I realized that's because it's in the magic item chapter and enchantments don't get double price for double size, but is that really the correct rule? In other words, would a deepcrystal large glaive cost 1616GP or 2616GP? Sebastien Loisel
sloisel 07-31-05, 06:47 PM	Sloisel, do you still have those pictures of yourself you once posted? I don't recall which picture that might be, but feel free to snatch the one on the my web page. http://www.math.mcgill.ca/loisel/
Gonbow 07-31-05, 07:10 PM	Most people feel it's a mediocre movie, but I kinda like it. It's sort of a kiddie movie like the Goonies or Time Bandits or Howard the Duck (showing my age, here...) and a lot of people resent young Tom Cruise, who plays the protagonist. However, it is directed by Ridley Scott, who also directed Blade Runner, Thelma & Louise and Gladiator. The one thing I really like about it is that all the bad guys speak in rhymes. Sebastien Loisel I remember that movie! I rather liked it. Introduced me to a lot of basic fantasy archetypes; I hadn't yet read tolkien or the Basic D&D book (more like a booklet..) yet at that point.
sloisel 07-31-05, 07:44 PM	I thought of another guy for one of the multiple avatars you're looking for. Maybe the prison guy? Sarris from Galaxy quest. Here's a good head shot. http://www.math.mcgill.ca/loisel/GQWP21.jpg
LLMadCow 07-31-05, 08:09 PM	Technical question: when I tried to buy a deepcrystal large glaive in PCGen, the fact that it was large doubled the base price (8GP --> 16GP) and the MW cost (300GP --> 600GP) but not the deepcrystal +1000GP. I realized that's because it's in the magic item chapter and enchantments don't get double price for double size, but is that really the correct rule? In other words, would a deepcrystal large glaive cost 1616GP or 2616GP? Sebastien Loisel Weapons for Unusually Sized Creatures: The cost of weapons for creatures who are neither Small nor Medium varies. The cost of the masterwork quality and any magical enhancement remains the same. And The masterwork quality adds 300 gp to the cost of a normal weapon (or 6 gp to the cost of a single unit of ammunition). Adding the masterwork quality to a double weapon costs twice the normal increase (+600 gp). So, the weapon you want actually costs: 1,316gp There are no specifics about Deep Crystal and the size of the weapon.
Pitlords 07-31-05, 08:28 PM	Sloisel is now up in the CoCo Gallery II (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4034178)
Vathelokai 07-31-05, 09:31 PM	What is Sloisel biting? No, couldn't be...
Vathelokai 07-31-05, 09:45 PM	So, the weapon you want actually costs: 1,316gp There are no specifics about Deep Crystal and the size of the weapon. Actually I think deep crystal is automaticly masterwork. Crystal, Deep: Deep crystal is crystal of above-average quality found at the hearts of large veins or deposits of mundane crystal (see below). Deep crystal is renowned for its strength and its psionically resonant nature. Mundane crystal is used for many items of psionic manufacture, such as dorjes, power stones, and psicrystals. Deep crystal is a better grade. While a weapon made of deep crystal is no different from a mundane crystal weapon for a nonpsionic character, a psionic wielder of a deep crystal weapon can focus psionic power through it, increasing the damage that weapon deals. As a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, the wielder can channel psionic power into a melee weapon or ranged weapon made of deep crystal. For 2 power points, the deep crystal weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of damage. The weapon will stay charged for 1 minute or until it scores its next hit. Bows, crossbows, and slings bestow this power on their ammunition. All missile weapons lose this effect if they miss. However, they may be recovered and charged again. Any weapon made of deep crystal costs 1,000 gp more than its noncrystal counterpart. Any item could potentially be made out of deep crystal. Because deep crystal armor is considered to be made out of metal, druids cannot wear it. Deep crystal has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and a hardness of 10. Crystal, Mundane: Mundane crystal can be used in place of metal in weapons or armor, using a special forging process. The fortified crystal possesses the properties of a similar masterwork steel weapon or armor, except for visual appearance. Weapons and armor made of mundane crystal cost the same amount to make as their masterwork counterparts. Any item could potentially be made with mundane crystal. Because mundane crystal armor is considered to be made out of metal, druids cannot wear it. Mundane crystal properly forged has 25 hit points per inch of thickness and a hardness of 8. I could have swore that somewhere it said that deep crystal is the same as mundane crystal, only with the chargeable thing. But I can't seem to find it anywhere. Help anyone? And what's with the big grey box in Rules of Gladius: Time (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466732&postcount=12)? And the legal cohort races code is missing. Pitlords must be updating.
LLMadCow 07-31-05, 10:10 PM	Actually I think deep crystal is automaticly masterwork. I could have swore that somewhere it said that deep crystal is the same as mundane crystal, only with the chargeable thing. But I can't seem to find it anywhere. Help anyone? And what's with the big grey box in Rules of Gladius: Time (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466732&postcount=12)? And the legal cohort races code is missing. Pitlords must be updating. You are correct. I posted about it last week or so. My bad. I go through the whole formula whenever I do it, I was just agreeing with parts of what he said and paying attention to specifically part of it. My bad. Large, Deep-Crystal Glaive - 1,016gp
Zerone 07-31-05, 10:48 PM	Does one need to Handle Animal an ally if they can speak the animals language? HA is the way for use to get past a language barrier with a non-intelligent creature. But animals already knows how to attack, etc. due to instincts... so would I need to HA animal or just ask my friend to do something? *•. Z
Vathelokai 07-31-05, 10:55 PM	WARNING! I have changed some things so the links to the Massive Cavern, being used in the monster fights is now here (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/Vathelokai/CoCo%20Maps/cavern.jpg) (just the image) or here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6732606&postcount=61) (the thread location). Secondly, I have a new huge open cave map (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6846308&postcount=66) , and I need input on what to put in its spaces. All ideas welcome.
Gonbow 07-31-05, 10:56 PM	Does one need to Handle Animal an ally if they can speak the animals language? HA is the way for use to get past a language barrier with a non-intelligent creature. But animals already knows how to attack, etc. due to instincts... so would I need to HA animal or just ask my friend to do something? *•. Z While an animal knows how to survive instinctively, they need to be taught to apply that instinct to other situations. Various animal-speaking abilities allow you to converse, gain information and have animals do things they would normally do, but thats it. A heavy warhose would normally assist its rider in battle, because it is trained to do so. A heavy horse, would not. See the difference?
Vathelokai 07-31-05, 10:58 PM	Does one need to Handle Animal an ally if they can speak the animals language? HA is the way for use to get past a language barrier with a non-intelligent creature. But animals already knows how to attack, etc. due to instincts... so would I need to HA animal or just ask my friend to do something? *•. Z It depends on the intellegence of the creature. Animals with 1-2 int. require HA. Magical animals with int 3+ can be reasoned with.
MystErikEry 07-31-05, 11:32 PM	Question: What would the minimum ECL of a Lycanthrope Human/Giant Octopus be? Am I correct in thinking it is 11? (1 Class + 2 LA Aquired Template + 8 Octopus HD) What do you think is better, afflicted Lyncanthrophy or natural Lycanthrophy? The former has one less LA, and seems to only lose out on some DR/silver... is +5 DR (silver) worth one LA? Can a Giant Octopus use its Jet ability and Ink Cloud abilities outside of water? It doesn't say it can't (and the descriptions don't even mention anything about being underwater) but that would be a little bit silly, admittedly (and in addition to that, a wereoctopus in animal form on land would drown, as it is not amphibious)... It might be better to go with a normal Octopus rather than a Giant octopus (as it's much less HD), but on the other hand it doesn't get quite as nice a Strength boost and also misses out on the constrict attack.
Gonbow 08-01-05, 12:37 AM	Question: What would the minimum ECL of a Lycanthrope Human/Giant Octopus be? Am I correct in thinking it is 11? (1 Class + 2 LA Aquired Template + 8 Octopus HD) What do you think is better, afflicted Lyncanthrophy or natural Lycanthrophy? The former has one less LA, and seems to only lose out on some DR/silver... is +5 DR (silver) worth one LA? Can a Giant Octopus use its Jet ability and Ink Cloud abilities outside of water? It doesn't say it can't (and the descriptions don't even mention anything about being underwater) but that would be a little bit silly, admittedly (and in addition to that, a wereoctopus in animal form on land would drown, as it is not amphibious)... It might be better to go with a normal Octopus rather than a Giant octopus (as it's much less HD), but on the other hand it doesn't get quite as nice a Strength boost and also misses out on the constrict attack. Heh heh. Got people thinking about this now eh? I'd say Natural is worth the +1 LA because you have complete control over your shapeshifting, as opposed to having to sink alot of skill points into it to do it reliably. And yes, it would be minimum ECL 11 for a Were-GiantOcto. Hmm. Were-Octos... Dagon was on the Sci-Fi channel last night... But honestly, a Giant Octopus is MUCH better. The reason? NINE FREAKING NATURAL ATTACKS! Take Improved Natural attack as one of your 4 (or 5, if your a fighter or psychic warrior) feats, get a base strength of 16.. That's 8 +13 20' reach melee attacks that each do 1d6+8. Plus another 10' reach attack that does 1d8+4. That's scary. Of course, a druid can do the same thing at level 8 instead of level 11, but they wouldn't have 6 more points of strength. Plus spending a feat on the attack of ONE form is really silly for a druid, so he'd probably just do 1d4+5. Hah! Of course, for low LA loving, you wont beat Dog or Baboon were-things. +6 Dex, +2 Wis for rat, plus weapon finesse +2 Str, +6 Dex, +4 con, +2 wis for Dog, plus Alertness and Track. +4 Str, +4 Dex, +2 con, +2 wis for Baboon, plus Alertness. Of course, the 1 animal HD is basically worthless, but it does give you some saving throws.
McJarvis 08-01-05, 12:44 AM	Rules Q- Regarding Prebuffs: Prebuffs are defined as things with a duration of longer then 16 hours, and you can only use 1/3 of your casting ability to do them. What about things with VERY long durations? Example: an extended graft weapon manifestation. This has a duration of 48 hours, thus you could theoretically use it twice and then rest, thereby gaining ALL pp's back.(so could I use all my pp's worth in pre-buffs with a longer then 24-hour duration, or could I use that remaining 1/3 pp, or what?)
MystErikEry 08-01-05, 02:46 AM	I just want to play a giant octopus lycanthrope for the flavor... The only question, however, is how I can earn 32 credits as soon as possible. :D I hear there is something about maps... but I can't find the details about it. I like to make maps for combat and stuff (although it is hard to keep it simple, sometimes ^_^) and if I can get a couple credits for making some maps, that would be great... I just don't remember the exact details --- something about the roof not being above a particular height? Of course, having some things in there for cover and/or concealment are useful. I don't know if I have time to questlord/pitlord, though. :/ So I suppose my options are really limited XD
Vathelokai 08-01-05, 03:10 AM	Maps for monster fights (usually caverns) must be under 15 ft high, have halways 10 ft wide, have clear starting positions, and have a clearly labeled x,y grid. Each side of the map should be between 100 and 200 ft. Symetrical maps are prefered. Post them to the Maps of Gladius thread, then send a private message to Pitlords. Other ways to get credits: Pitlording (i.e. GMing) a fight is worth one credit per fight Submitting a cool avatar photo for pitlords, prisonlords, or scribelords is worth a credit. Auditing a char is worth a credit per 10lvs. The way you audit is pick a character, then go through every fight they have ever done and double check that all of their gp/xp transactions were done properly. Also, check Rules of Gladius:Advanced rules: Credit system for more details.
Pitlords 08-01-05, 04:18 AM	Wow! Vathelokai really has a talent for cool dungeon maps!! We should keep this one in mind. When we start to use random arenas, this one is my fav. +1° for Vathelokai! @all: I've added a new way of earning credits to the FAQ: Submit a picture of you! Worth 2° (once; not per picture).
Vathelokai 08-01-05, 04:28 AM	And I was all thinking that it needed something... Thanks though.
Pitlords 08-01-05, 04:47 AM	Don't get me wrong: it IS useful! It's just that we have just re-introduced monster fights and we shouldn't take four steps with one stride. @Mysticerik: Also, supercool map! +2° for you because you've created the code too. I've sent you a PM with suggestions for corrections (starting positions, color, etc). @McJarvis: Unless it is permanent, it counts against your prebuff-1/3. The fight might take place on the day you renew the spell.
MystErikEry 08-01-05, 05:10 AM	Thanks for the suggestions! You're absolutely right about a couple :P This is what I get for making a map at 2:00 am. I'm hoping to make a few more, since they're really quite fun to make. I really ought to make one that actually isn't a cave, though, since caves are really cliched! Perhaps some dungeon innards, or maybe just another arena-style one... Although, a volcanic cavern sounds interesting, too. How does pools of lava sound? (Creatures with fire resistance can even swim in lava, provided they aren't completely submerged, heh) How would arena "events" occur? I mean, I think the DMG or something has some environmental hazards listed --- for example, steam vents. I forget where... It was something like having creatures sometimes make reflex saves or take damage from the hot steam... I suppose natural hazards are okay... Perhaps a fight on some bridges over an underground river would be cool, since if you fall, you have a chance of being swept away (and would actually give those Armor Check penalties a chance!), or perhaps a battle taking place on multiple levels --- or basically a shaft-like level, where the ceiling is usually 10~15' overhead, but slopes upwards as you climb, too! It's all so exciting :P
Vathelokai 08-01-05, 05:37 AM	Code Map for Cavern Map #2 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6846308&postcount=66) has been added. Climb DCs and other miscelany has also been added. On another note, I am trying a new sig experiment. Check out my link.
Pitlords 08-01-05, 05:53 AM	I should probably post some guidelines for code maps. - You need to use the capital letter O for squares with a space in between. - Colors: floor skyblue, starting box olive with navy letter (ABC or D) in the center, misc. obstacles dimgray, walls and pillars black. - Coordinates are always numbers. @Vathe: Could you make the stairs 10ft wide so that huge creatures can use them too? Better one big stair in the center than 2 small ones. Also, this is a blitzkrieg map! You can attack on round one which is problematic hence why we came up with random concealed starting positions.
sloisel 08-01-05, 06:34 AM	You are correct. I posted about it last week or so. My bad. I go through the whole formula whenever I do it, I was just agreeing with parts of what he said and paying attention to specifically part of it. My bad. Large, Deep-Crystal Glaive - 1,016gp Obviously, my one-year D&D hiatus since I've arrived in Geneva hasn't been very good for my Knowledge (The Rules). @Pitlords: How can I tell how many credits I have? Sebastien Loisel
Pitlords 08-01-05, 06:40 AM	Ok, here are the new avatars for the Board Accounts: Pitlords: http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/CoCoAvatar-Pitlords1.jpg Prisonlords: http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/CoCoAvatar-Prisonlords1.jpg Now we need one for Scribelords, too. They will handle the new World of Gladius thread. Any ideas? Should be the same theme.
Vathelokai 08-01-05, 06:46 AM	@sloisel: You can find your credits by going to the characters of gladius thread and scrolling way down. Or just click here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179881&postcount=5)
sloisel 08-01-05, 08:10 AM	Ok, here are the new avatars for the Board Accounts: Pitlords: http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/CoCoAvatar-Pitlords1.jpg Prisonlords: http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/CoCoAvatar-Prisonlords1.jpg Now we need one for Scribelords, too. They will handle the new World of Gladius thread. Any ideas? Should be the same theme. I dunno, how about Pai Mei from Kill Bill v2? http://www.math.mcgill.ca/loisel/PaiMei.jpg http://www.math.mcgill.ca/loisel/pai_mei_copy.jpg
sloisel 08-01-05, 08:27 AM	Other choices that spring to mind are Merlin from the Excalibur movie: http://dandalf.com/dandalf/excalmerlinbw1.gif http://dandalf.com/dandalf/IMG33.JPG And of course, Gandalf or Saruman from the recent Lord of the Rings trilogy, although they might be too recognizable to make good avatars. http://members.aol.com/jillconway/gandalfwp3.jpg http://www.laurelindorenan.com/Gandalf%2010.jpg http://www.chromehorse.net/images/lotr/saruman.jpg Edit: there's a Gandalf gallery here (http://www.meduseld.btinternet.co.uk/gandalfgallery.shtml) .
Pitlords 08-01-05, 08:43 AM	Ok, here are the new avatars for the Board Accounts: Pitlords: http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/CoCoAvatar-Pitlords1.jpg Prisonlords: http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/CoCoAvatar-Prisonlords1.jpg Scribelords: http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/CoCoAvatar-Scribelords1.jpg @Sloisel: I wanted to have the same theme but thanks for your suggestions!
sloisel 08-01-05, 08:45 AM	@Sloisel: I wanted to have the same theme but thanks for your suggestions! No problem. Where's the scribe guy from? Edit: lemme guess... Lawnmower man? Sebastien Loisel
Pittbull 08-01-05, 09:27 AM	Would anybody check my calculation, please: Rhino Hide: Total prize 5165 gp. That makes 165 gp for a MW hide, 4000gp for +2 magic and 1000gp for it's special-ability (+2d6 damage on charges). I'd like to customizes this for 10° to create Hagrid's new armor: An mithril-enhanced Rhino-Breastplate with coldiron-spikes! All I want to change is the base armor this magic item is created on: Mithrilbreastplate: 4200gp Large MW coldiron Armorspikes: 550gp +2 magic: 4000gp Special ability: 1000gp That makes: 9750 gp and 10° for a mithril-enhanced Rhino-Breastplate with large MW cold-iron spikes! Right? It'll take some time until Hagrid has the money, but I think, this armor suits him very well!! :cool:
sloisel 08-01-05, 09:37 AM	What happens when you trip a flying creature? EDIT: Nevermind, found the answer. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040706a @Pitbull: If that flies, I'm gonna want one of those too! Sebastien Loisel
Pittbull 08-01-05, 09:50 AM	You can trip a creature only, if it flies with limps (wings)!
Altaris13 08-01-05, 09:52 AM	A Psi Tat of Expansion (ML3) = 150gp cost, correct?
Pittbull 08-01-05, 10:00 AM	Nope, it would cost at least 300gp, if you don't use the additional MLs for augmentation, because it's a power with personal range (x2costs). If you want to use the MLs for augmentation a house rule of the CoCo aplies and makes this expansion like a 2ndlevel power (3PP to acitvate). A second lvl tatoo costs 300gpx2(personal!)= 600gp.
Altaris13 08-01-05, 10:04 AM	@Pitt! YIKES!!! So much for that idea. I was reading through the equipment rules and couldn't locate that info, thanks! I did want to use the extra 2pp for augmentation. Now, would that also have cost me a credit? Is that considered a 'custom one shot' item? Oh, and how do you make the little 0 symbol?
Pittbull 08-01-05, 10:09 AM	It's on my keyboard! But Zerone said its: º = Alt 0186 ! Give it a try! EDIT: If it's ML is within your ECL+2, you don't need to pay credits.
Altaris13 08-01-05, 10:14 AM	Thanks Pittbull! And thanks for Pitlording. At least I got in an attack this fight. :D EDIT: Can anyone tell me why the SRD lists a potion of Enlarge person as 250gp? Is that for a CL of 5?
sloisel 08-01-05, 10:25 AM	EDIT: If it's ML is within your ECL+2, you don't need to pay credits. That's not what the FAQ says: Tattoes and Potions: These items are restricted to the minimum CL/ML. In case of potions only those listed in the DMG are available, and if a potion is specifically listed having a higher CL then it can be purchased aswell. You may buy higher CL/ML scrolls and potions aswell as potions and oils not listed in the DMG at the Blackmarket. Also, are the feats in the Divine part of the SRD available? I want to take knockdown. Sebastien Loisel
michael_noah 08-01-05, 10:30 AM	EDIT: Can anyone tell me why the SRD lists a potion of Enlarge person as 250gp? Is that for a CL of 5? That's what the DMG says too. We just noticed this in my gaming group last week. I'm relatively certain that the only possible reason is that it's CL5.
Gonbow 08-01-05, 10:45 AM	Also, are the feats in the Divine part of the SRD available? I want to take knockdown. Sebastien Loisel Yes they are, if you can meet the requirement for a feat in that section, you can take it.
Pittbull 08-01-05, 10:45 AM	That's not what the FAQ says: Also, are the feats in the Divine part of the SRD available? I want to take knockdown. Sebastien Loisel Yes, you're right! I forgot that tatoos are at the minimum! Knockdown is available, as all other feats from devine SRD are.
Gonbow 08-01-05, 10:53 AM	Question about the Skills part of the FAQ; Craft (Alchemy) requires at least one level of a casting class or a manifesting class... What about classes that eventually get spells/manifest? For example, Rangers and Paladins. Would they be able to craft (alchemy) at levels where they are unable to cast spells?
Faroth 08-01-05, 10:59 AM	Please, would you check my character? http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6787469&postcount=368 How do I know if I'm engaged in a fight this wednesday? see u
Pittbull 08-01-05, 11:07 AM	Just look here! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179877&postcount=4) There are the pairings!
TelinArtho 08-01-05, 11:10 AM	If you want to fight, put: "Ready Aug 03,2005" in your title. That's easy enough. Things I see: 1. The bonus to fortitude from your familiar is good up to 1 mile away (see section under familiars for this). Alertness is only within arm's reach though. 2. You have charged yourself double on the 2 scrolls of Expeditious Retreat, credit yourself 2xp and 25gp. 3. Since Synesthete is a personal range power, you need to pay double (see section under crafting tatoos in psionics) for each. Debit 150gp from your money. 4. Under spells memorized, you have 3/1+1 for being a diviner, plus 1 for bonus. This equals 3 spell levels and 1 castable spell level. 5. Your rat has 9hp and 3HD (you have him listed as 9HD...) 6. You should probably note your bonus to damage and skills that apply to humans in the appropriate sections of your character sheet. This is more to ensure your pitlord remembers to add it. Yes it is redundant - but it is also a timesaver... That's all that I see right off the bat. Nothing that would disqualify you anyway. /d
Pitlords 08-01-05, 11:29 AM	@Gonbow: then you need to wait until you can actually manifest
sloisel 08-01-05, 11:32 AM	Question about the Skills part of the FAQ; Craft (Alchemy) requires at least one level of a casting class or a manifesting class... What about classes that eventually get spells/manifest? For example, Rangers and Paladins. Would they be able to craft (alchemy) at levels where they are unable to cast spells? Such classes get caster levels but not at level 1. E.g., Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is one-half her paladin level. Sebastien Loisel
xanadu 08-01-05, 12:12 PM	poition of enlarge person costing 250 GP. The only other potions listed with higher caster levels are those which give extra bonuses (sheild of faith, barkskin, et. al), have a higher caster level is inconsistent and I doubt that is the reason for the price. This question has come up on the other boards as well. Some people feel it is "too good" for 50 gp. Nonsense. Maybe it is good for 50 gp, but if it was "too good" then the spell wouldn't be a first level spell and other "good" potions would cost more. Some people think this is a holdover from 3.0 which never got corrected. I never played 3.0, so I am not sure mechanically how this theory works. I think it is either: 1) misprint 2) reflects the fudged shorter "caster" time one derives from drinking potion. I dont think you can apply metamagic feats into potions but enlarge person is a 1 round spell and so if just drink the potion, you are in effect quickening its casting time so maybe that is why the made it 250 gp to represent the standard action one needs to enarlge themselves as opposed to full-round. I doubt this is the case though, it strikes me as being too arbitrary. Are there any other potions which "shorten" caster times for comparison? In my group the potion costs 50 gp like all the other potions.
Luni 08-01-05, 12:27 PM	I created a map like everyone else. :D It's an outdoor map, just to make things a little bit differerent. You can find it here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6850493&postcount=68)
TCB 08-01-05, 12:35 PM	Enlarged Quicken would be a lvl 5 spell with a caster lvl of 9 so not sure about that
Luni 08-01-05, 12:54 PM	TCB, in the top right hand corner of each post is a #. Yours was #1358. Click on it, and it'll take you to a new browser window. Copy the url, and then paste it into your post. http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6850573&postcount=1358
Altaris13 08-01-05, 01:26 PM	I don't suppose there's been an official ruling on the Potion of Enlarge Person? Honestly, I don't even know where to look for rules, and haven't seen anything in the FAQ. Reduce Person is the same cost. Bless weapon (oil) is 100gp. Wierd...
TelinArtho 08-01-05, 01:38 PM	The pricing for potions is 50gpxCLxSL. A 1st level potion of Enlarge is 50gp (50x1x1). The one listed in the SRD is 250gp (50x5 (CL)x1 (SL)). You can buy one at 50gp if you pay the appropriate credits. A potion of Reduce is the same thing. Bless weapon is a special case. This is a paladin only spell, and the first time a paladin can cast it is at 4th level. A paladin is considered a caster of half his paladin levels, so to create a bless weapon oil is 50gp x 2(CL) x 1 (SL) = 100gp.
Altaris13 08-01-05, 01:47 PM	@Telin! That's what I thought. Thanks for the confirmation.
TelinArtho 08-01-05, 01:50 PM	Alright, here's a question: You have a paladin (lvl 2) with the lay on hands ability and a charisma of 12. Normally, he can heal 2 hp/day with his ability. Then he finds a Cloak of Charisma +2, which increases his charisma to 14. Now he can use his ability to heal 4hp/day - right? Well what about using a scroll of Eagle's Splendor? Can he heal up to his new charisma score bonus * lvl within the duration of the spell? thanks /d
Pitlords 08-01-05, 02:13 PM	MiniQuest - "Calling the Game" (King Uther) Queststatus: complete Questlog: empty Miniquest - "A Monastic View" (King Uther) Queststatus: complete Questlog: empty Quest - "The Hunt" (Deadly Assassin) Queststatus: Week 3 running Questlog: empty Quest - "A Pyramid Scheme" (King Uther) Queststatus: Week 2 running Questlog: empty Quest - "Soul of an Assassin" (King Uther) Queststatus: Week 1 complete Questlog: empty Please tell me what I can do so that you update the Questlog when an encounter is done? :weep:
Luni 08-01-05, 02:16 PM	Alright, here's a question: You have a paladin (lvl 2) with the lay on hands ability and a charisma of 12. Normally, he can heal 2 hp/day with his ability. Then he finds a Cloak of Charisma +2, which increases his charisma to 14. Now he can use his ability to heal 4hp/day - right? Well what about using a scroll of Eagle's Splendor? Can he heal up to his new charisma score bonus * lvl within the duration of the spell? thanks /d I'm pretty sure it has to be all day. So, if you found a lvl 3600 scroll of Eagles Splendor, you could heal more. Of course, you can use the scroll of eagles splendor to up your smite damage.
Pitlords 08-01-05, 02:20 PM	Luni +1° for the map
TelinArtho 08-01-05, 02:31 PM	My latest character is up: Sir Valkin (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6851361) Any comments?
Zerone 08-01-05, 03:31 PM	TCB, in the top right hand corner of each post is a #. Yours was #1358. Click on it, and it'll take you to a new browser window. Copy the url, and then paste it into your post. http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6850573&postcount=1358 Or just right-click the number 1358 and select 'Copy Shortcut' and then past it where you need the link. Also, you know that the Icon above the text box with a world and a chain link looking thing, that's the hyperlink button. *•. Z
McJarvis 08-01-05, 05:51 PM	@McJarvis: Unless it is permanent, it counts against your prebuff-1/3. The fight might take place on the day you renew the spell. [/COLOR] Specifically what I was getting at: If I had two different effects that both lasted 48 hours and both cost the same slot cost, could I overlap them? Day 1: Use seven PP to cast 48 hour duration graft weapon power on one arm using extend power feat. Day 2: Use seven PP to cast 48 hour duration graft weapon power on other arm using extend power feat. day three: repeat for first arm. result: Only 7 power points levels are taken from 1/3 buff margin even though 14 are being cast. Both effects are on every day, but since I only have to cast every other day I can alternate them and get an even casting amount per day. I think there are other situations this could be adventagious(especially since psi-warrior builds are normally short on PP anyway))
Mind Rogue 08-01-05, 06:07 PM	Or what about a couple of other lengthy spells. If anybody ever gets up high enough to use it, shambler lasts all week. Meanwhile, goodberry lasts one day per level, so it wouldn't be difficult to have a whole bunch of them, granted that they aren't going to be able to do much. Liveoak also lasts one day per level, although it is sort of limited to where it can go. Mind Blank, Endure Elements, and a number of other spells all have a duration of 1 day, and casting an extended version of them would easily bump it up to 2 days. Spellstaff has a duration of permanent until discharged. Could the druid imbue it one monday so that she has all of her spells available by wednesday? Also, what about permanent spells that I cast on my opponent? If I hit them with baleful polymorph, bestow curse, imprisonment, stasis, binding, blindness/deafness or other similarly long spells, are they still in effect on my opponent later?
GuardianAngel 08-01-05, 06:47 PM	Good question becuase in the battle of the blinding mages one of them is blind are they not?
King Uther 08-01-05, 07:24 PM	@Pitlords I may not have the logs updated as of now, but rest assured I will always have them ready by pairings.
Prince FyreDragon 08-01-05, 07:34 PM	I have made some significant changes and done some revamping on my 4 active characters....if someone could take a peak at them and look for mistakes, I would appreciate it.
Caterane 08-01-05, 07:34 PM	@Uther: Ok, I'll better check the Quests on tuesday/wednesday then
xanadu 08-01-05, 07:52 PM	Prince, You are retiring a guy who won? Give him a chance :) I didn't look at your guys closely so I dont have any errors to report. I did notice that War has no ranged weapon. Trust me, you'll want one if your enemy is flying, you are entangled, or if your enemy is faster than you.
Prince FyreDragon 08-01-05, 09:12 PM	Prince, You are retiring a guy who won? Give him a chance :) I didn't look at your guys closely so I dont have any errors to report. I did notice that War has no ranged weapon. Trust me, you'll want one if your enemy is flying, you are entangled, or if your enemy is faster than you. Actually, I'm retiring 4 characters, 3 of which won. They were just test characters to get myself used to this arena before I put a little effort behind some characters. But now I have my very own stable LOL And on War...I know he needs ranged weaponry....just haven't decided how I want to proceed there...maybe I'll go buy one of those Dwarf slings that my other character had.....they seem to do pretty well LOL.
TCB 08-01-05, 09:38 PM	Ok someone brought of the question about the Divine link on the SRD website. Now under the madness domain the first lvl domain spell is Random Action. What is it, where is it? Looked all over the SRD website, Need info on it for my character this week.
sloisel 08-01-05, 09:39 PM	Specifically what I was getting at: If I had two different effects that both lasted 48 hours and both cost the same slot cost, could I overlap them? You know, right now it's against the rule and I don't mind playing by the rules we have now. However, if I understand this right, the idea behind this house rule was to more closely match the D&D regimen of spending a third of your resources per fight. If that's really the point then McJarvis is right -- spells that last very long would, in a normal D&D game, "overlap" or be cast on alternate days as necessary, and this would still sum up to 1/3 or whatever your spell slots. I have played a 3.0 Sorcerer to level 19 in a real game and I did overlap spell slots so I could spread the buffs around more. I also don't think that such a modification to the current house rule would be unbalancing because I can't think of a whole lot of effects that last 48 hours or more. Perhaps someone can show me some outrageous overlapping? Would 1/3pp prebuff *per day* be outrageous? @TCB I believe that's a cut-n-paste error and "random action" got replaced with "lesser confusion" in 3.5. "Random action" also appears as a prereq for the wondrous item "Chaos Diamond". Sebastien Loisel
McJarvis 08-01-05, 09:42 PM	Also, what about permanent spells that I cast on my opponent? If I hit them with baleful polymorph, bestow curse, imprisonment, stasis, binding, blindness/deafness or other similarly long spells, are they still in effect on my opponent later? I believe this has already been addressed: Adverse effects are negated after battle. Someone with more knowledge then I can correct me if I'm wrong, of course :)
McJarvis 08-01-05, 09:51 PM	Perhaps someone can show me some outrageous overlapping? I don't think it can lead to any abuse other then having more PP's to spend on pre-buffs. Even then, usually long-duration buffs are long duration because they arn't as useful. I think an official rule could just be that if you use a 48-hour duration spell, you can use other 48-hour duration spells of equal or lesser value for free. And the only way to get 48 duration spells in Gladius is more or less Extended 24-hour duration spells, or spells with durations in days/weeks. I don't think any spell has a 2 hour/level duration.(would require epic levels to get over 48 for 1 hour/level)
Luni 08-02-05, 03:15 AM	Ok someone brought of the question about the Divine link on the SRD website. Now under the madness domain the first lvl domain spell is Random Action. What is it, where is it? Looked all over the SRD website, Need info on it for my character this week. I've seen it before! But I don't know where. I think that it is like confusion, but it only lasts for one round. I found it! The Online SRD is wrong. The spell was renamed from Random Action (3.0) to Confusion, Lesser (3.5) Links: 3.0 Version (http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd.html). Search in Spells (R) Random Action Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting] Level: Clr 1 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One living creature Duration: 1 round Saving Throw: Will negates Spell Resistance: Yes The enchanted creature is compelled to act randomly for 1 round. Rather than deciding its action for itself, the subject of the spell takes an action determined randomly on the following table: 1d8 Action --- ------ 1 Attack self (succeed on any attack roll other than a natural 1). 2 Attack nearest being (for this purpose, a familiar counts as part of the subject’s "self"). 3 Flee away from caster at top possible speed. 4 Drop anything held. 5 Stand motionless (as if stunned). 6 Do nothing but defend (total defense). 7 Speak (in the subject’s native tongue, usually regarding surface thoughts) or make noises (if not capable of speech). 8 Attack caster with melee or ranged weapons (or close with caster if attacking is not possible). Nothing can affect this die roll in any way. It is always entirely random. 3.5 Version. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/confusionLesser.htm)
Pittbull 08-02-05, 05:08 AM	I believe Luni is right, it's confusion, lesser. The hypertext SRD says: Madness Domain Spells Confusion, Lesser Touch of madness Rage Confusion Bolts of bedevilment Phantasmal killer Insanity Maddening scream Weird Most of the time they are right!
Caterane 08-02-05, 06:58 PM	http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Charaktere/Harvester/Harvester-Robe-Feet.jpg
sloisel 08-02-05, 07:22 PM	If I'm in time for the pairings, I've got a new character here: Murgatroyd
Prince FyreDragon 08-02-05, 07:50 PM	You might want to specify in your prefight actions that you are addressing your powerstones...otherwise you might have to do that in battle...little chance of failure with your the int bonus, but why take that chance when you can auto-succeed by doing it beforehand...
Begferdeth 08-02-05, 10:02 PM	I would think that as long as you have the skills/class, shouldnt powerstones and scrolls be pre-adressed/read/whatever by default? Once its been done, you never have to do it again. Oh, and Im not sure if I got a real reply to my lycanthropy question... just a lot of suggestions about cool lycanthropes. If I pick an animal with a CR<1, is the character going to be ECL 3 or 4? Like a werebadger would be ECL 3 1/2... a weredog would be ECL 3 1/3... Do they come in at ECL 3? Or ECL 4? Makes a little bit of difference when you havent got any credits to spend on characters :D
MystErikEry 08-02-05, 10:22 PM	I would think that as long as you have the skills/class, shouldnt powerstones and scrolls be pre-adressed/read/whatever by default? Once its been done, you never have to do it again. Oh, and Im not sure if I got a real reply to my lycanthropy question... just a lot of suggestions about cool lycanthropes. If I pick an animal with a CR<1, is the character going to be ECL 3 or 4? Like a werebadger would be ECL 3 1/2... a weredog would be ECL 3 1/3... Do they come in at ECL 3? Or ECL 4? Makes a little bit of difference when you havent got any credits to spend on characters :D I THINK that a character with less than one HD (such as those with 1/8th d8 or somesuch) are considered to have 0 HD... I'm not 100% sure, though. (Also, I'm currently saving up for 36 credits, so I can make a were-giant-octopus :D )
Prince FyreDragon 08-02-05, 10:34 PM	I would think that as long as you have the skills/class, shouldnt powerstones and scrolls be pre-adressed/read/whatever by default? Once its been done, you never have to do it again. Oh, and Im not sure if I got a real reply to my lycanthropy question... just a lot of suggestions about cool lycanthropes. If I pick an animal with a CR<1, is the character going to be ECL 3 or 4? Like a werebadger would be ECL 3 1/2... a weredog would be ECL 3 1/3... Do they come in at ECL 3? Or ECL 4? Makes a little bit of difference when you havent got any credits to spend on characters :D I guess the questions regarding powerstones and scrolls needs to be addressed by Elders....because technically if you do not specify that as a prebuff, you should be making those checks during combat. Granted, if done out of combat you are taking 20 and it is automatic to do it as long as you do not have a penalty to do it otherwise, but I have not seen anything in the rules thread indicating it should be assumed. Hence the reason all of my characters that require it list that as a prefight action. This may all be over a small point, but if it is *not assumed, then there is always that chance that a character could flub the use of his powerstone and that could change an arena match greatly. Now if there *is something in the rules thread that I missed indicating it is always assumed, then all of this is moot. But I don't recall seeing anything of that type, and per the RAW, it does have to be done. Simply listing it on your character sheet as a prefight actions takes care of the problem.
McJarvis 08-02-05, 11:24 PM	Is the Thrall Herd ability treated the same as Leadership for xp/gp penalties?
SodaGuy 08-02-05, 11:42 PM	What's a potion's weight? What about poison on an arrow?
Prince FyreDragon 08-02-05, 11:55 PM	What's a potion's weight? What about poison on an arrow? On my character's, I have potions listed as 0.1 lbs....I believe that is correct but don't hold me to that LOL
Iced 08-03-05, 12:13 AM	This is from Deadly Assassin: yea...well, i'd like to work on your quest (i know im behind on it again), but yesterday and today i've spent the whole time going through each and every folder, drive..evrything (which we apparently have a lot of) making sure there's nothing else hidden anywhere, and i'm still not done...i'll probably be gone for most of tomorrow as well...could you tell the guys at coco that for me? He told me to pass it on so here it is..
MystErikEry 08-03-05, 02:21 AM	I have a question about lycanthropes... In the description of lycanthropy, it says this (emphasis mine): Abilities: All lycanthropes gain +2 to Wisdom. In addition, when in animal form, a lycanthrope’s physical ability scores improve according to its kind, as set out in the table below. These adjustments are equal to the animal’s normal ability scores –10 or –11. A lycanthrope in hybrid form modifies its physical ability scores by the same amount. But it also says this a little earlier (emphasis mine): Alternate Form (Su): A lycanthrope can shift into animal form as though using the polymorph spell on itself, though its gear is not affected, it does not regain hit points for changing form, and only the specific animal form indicated for the lycanthrope can be assumed. It does not assume the ability scores of the animal, but instead adds the animal’s physical ability score modifiers to its own ability scores. A lycanthrope also can assume a bipedal hybrid form with prehensile hands and animalistic features. It also says this, under "Lycanthropes as Characters": +2 Wisdom. Physical abilities are increased by the animal form’s ability modifiers when a lycanthrope changes to its hybrid or animal forms. So, which is it? All of the listed lycanthropes follow the "Animal's scores -10 or -11" rule (and also list LA for these characters, so could theoretically be played, as-is, as a player character, with that LA) , as does the small chart describing the bonuses to ability scores gained by characters who transform into their animal/hybrid lycanthrope form.
Gonbow 08-03-05, 02:27 AM	I have a question about lycanthropes... In the description of lycanthropy, it says this (emphasis mine): But it also says this a little earlier (emphasis mine): It also says this, under "Lycanthropes as Characters": So, which is it? All of the listed lycanthropes follow the "Animal's scores -10 or -11" rule (and also list LA for these characters, so could theoretically be played, as-is, as a player character, with that LA) , as does the small chart describing the bonuses to ability scores gained by characters who transform into their animal/hybrid lycanthrope form. I'm not sure what your question is as all the things you qouted say the same thing. But I'll run it down.. In all forms, Lycanthropes have +2 wisdom. This is assumedly from their increased general awareness of their surroundings. (See: Low-light vision and scent, which they also have in all forms). In hybrid or animal forms, they keep their normal statistics, but increase their physical statistics by an amount equal to the animals physical statistic -10 if it is even, -11 if it is odd. Thus, if you are a wererat, while you are in human form, you get +2 wisdom. In hybrid or rat form, you get +6 dex, +2 con, +2 wisdom.
McJarvis 08-03-05, 02:29 AM	Shan the Man (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6867395&postcount=389) is Ready. Yippee...
MystErikEry 08-03-05, 02:31 AM	The second quoted section says "adds the animal’s physical ability score modifiers to its own ability scores". The ability score modifiers, not the ability scores, to your ability scores (not the modifiers). Thus, following THIS rule, a were-(dire)-rat would have (in animal form), +3 Dex (the Dire Rat's Dexterity ability score modifier is added to your ability score) and +1 Con (the Dire Rat's Constitution ability score modifier is added to your ability score). Since it has a Strength modifier of +0, your strength doesn't change. +2 Wis in all forms, as that's what it says, obviously.
Gonbow 08-03-05, 02:36 AM	The second quoted section says "adds the animal’s physical ability score modifiers to its own ability scores". The ability score modifiers, not the ability scores, to your ability scores (not the modifiers). Thus, following THIS rule, a were-(dire)-rat would have (in animal form), +3 Dex (the Dire Rat's Dexterity ability score modifier is added to your ability score) and +1 Con (the Dire Rat's Constitution ability score modifier is added to your ability score). Since it has a Strength modifier of +0, your strength doesn't change. +2 Wis in all forms, as that's what it says, obviously. By modifiers it is talking about racial modifiers. A dire rat has a racial modifier of +6 to it's dexterity.
MystErikEry 08-03-05, 02:37 AM	Shan the Man (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6867395&postcount=389) is Ready. Yippee... You meant for the Int to cost 16 points, not 18. The +2 to Wis and Cha are age, not racial. You cannot prebuff with a touch spell charge (it's specifically excluded in the Rules of Gladius :D Sadly.) His spells levels are actually 13 (5+4*2) so he can cast one third of that, or 5 (it's rounded up) which you should list on the sheet. Did you pay the 100 gp required to get your familiar? Otherwise looks pretty cool ^_^
MystErikEry 08-03-05, 02:38 AM	By modifiers it is talking about racial modifiers. A dire rat has a racial modifier of +6 to it's dexterity. Oh! Huh. That confused me. >_< Glad that was cleared up ^_^ Thank you. Also, sorry about the double post. >_< I realized I did it only after it was too late XD
Luni 08-03-05, 02:54 AM	Shan the Man (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6867395&postcount=389) is Ready. Yippee... Only problem, is that we have another gladiator named Shan (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6594896)
MystErikEry 08-03-05, 02:59 AM	I have yet another question about lycanthropy. Sorry ^_^; Apparently, this is how you would calculate a lycanthropes HP... Let's use a were-(dire-)rat with one level of Wizard as an example. He'll have a Con score of 12 (+1). 1d4+1 (the character's class level HD and Con score mod) Now add the 1d8 of the animal's HD, and apply the animal form's Con score mod (in this case, it's 14 (+2) Con), so that's 1d8+2. So the character has 1d4+1d8+3 HP (or 11.5 HP)... Okay, but now what happens when the character transforms into his dire rat form? His con score changes from 12 to 14, and thus the Modifier is changed from +1 to +2... So his HP should change according to the change in Con Mod (+1 HP per HD)... Would he then gain 2 HP total (and current) when he transforms into a dire rat, and then lose them when transforming back again? I think it's right in this case, as there should be a change in HP whenever Con changes appropriately, but the way the lycanthrope's HP is calculated in the first place is a bit strange (as it already accounts for the animal form's Con modifier for the animal HD)... >_>;
Gonbow 08-03-05, 03:05 AM	I have yet another question about lycanthropy. Sorry ^_^; Apparently, this is how you would calculate a lycanthropes HP... Let's use a were-(dire-)rat with one level of Wizard as an example. He'll have a Con score of 12 (+1). 1d4+1 (the character's class level HD and Con score mod) Now add the 1d8 of the animal's HD, and apply the animal form's Con score mod (in this case, it's 14 (+2) Con), so that's 1d8+2. So the character has 1d4+1d8+3 HP (or 11.5 HP)... Okay, but now what happens when the character transforms into his dire rat form? His con score changes from 12 to 14, and thus the Modifier is changed from +1 to +2... So his HP should change according to the change in Con Mod (+1 HP per HD)... Would he then gain 2 HP total (and current) when he transforms into a dire rat, and then lose them when transforming back again? I think it's right in this case, as there should be a change in HP whenever Con changes appropriately, but the way the lycanthrope's HP is calculated in the first place is a bit strange (as it already accounts for the animal form's Con modifier for the animal HD)... >_>; What the.. FRAG is going on with lycanthropes!?! They should have more HP in animal form than human form, not consistent in both... it just doesn't make sense! >.<
MystErikEry 08-03-05, 03:17 AM	What does it mean by this, then? Hit Dice and Hit Points: Same as the base creature plus those of the base animal. To calculate total hit points, apply Constitution modifiers according to the score the lycanthrope has in each form. Also, under Were-Rat (one of the example lycanthropes): 1d8+1 plus 1d8+2 (12 hp) This is listed after "Hit Dice" and is under all three columns: Wererat Human Form Medium Humanoid (Human, Shapechanger) , Wererat Dire Rat Form Small Humanoid (Human, Shapechanger) , and Wererat Hybrid Form Medium Humanoid (Human, Shapechanger)...
sloisel 08-03-05, 06:34 AM	You might want to specify in your prefight actions that you are addressing your powerstones...otherwise you might have to do that in battle...little chance of failure with your the int bonus, but why take that chance when you can auto-succeed by doing it beforehand... I thought I could prebuff in my tactics -- is that not the case? Do I need to prebuff before pairings? Sebastien Loisel
Caterane 08-03-05, 08:08 AM	Shan the Man (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6867395&postcount=389) is Ready. Yippee... @McJarvis: Could you please change the name slightly so that won't be any confusion with the existing Shan? Thanks.
Pitlords 08-03-05, 09:05 AM	I've added that to the FAQ: Arena Combat II: If you have at least 1 rank in spellcraft or access to read magic, Scrolls are automatically assumed to be deciphered. The same goes for powerstones if you have 1 rank in psicraft. You do not have to list these under the prebuff section. Characters that lack these prerequisites must decipher the item in the arena.
Altaris13 08-03-05, 10:18 AM	(class/racial HD + human form Con mod) plus (animal HD + animal form Con mod OR hybrid form Con mod <which ever is higher>) This has come a time or two in a Ravenloft campaign I've been playing for a couple of years. A lycan has one set of HP's in all forms, shifting forms does not change their HPs in d20 3.5.
McJarvis 08-03-05, 10:29 AM	@McJarvis: Could you please change the name slightly so that won't be any confusion with the existing Shan? Thanks. Done. @cat: the Line of Sight calculator link in the pittlords post doesn't work. I think the url is missing an "http://", because it redirects to www.wizards.comwww....
sloisel 08-03-05, 10:38 AM	I've added that to the FAQ: Arena Combat II: Aha, that's interesting. I have a psychic warrior with +3 psicraft, so if I take 20 I could normally address a powerstone level 8, but not level 9. According to this rule, my character can address a powerstone level 9? Cheers, Sebastien Loisel
McJarvis 08-03-05, 10:42 AM	I've added that to the FAQ: Arena Combat II: What about UMD? Son of Kon deciphers scrolls currently by taking 10 before arena fights I think...
Pittbull 08-03-05, 11:25 AM	What about UMD? Son of Kon deciphers scrolls currently by taking 10 before arena fights I think... You cannot take 10 with this skill. ;)
Tellish_of_Ket 08-03-05, 11:30 AM	Actually what happens is he would take 10 on his decipher script skill. Also, he wouldn't have to do it every fight for every scroll. If his take 10 decipher scripts enables him to read the scroll, no further rolling is needed. After that he just needs to make his UMD check. And yes he CAN take 10 using UMD, but to do that he would need Skill Master that a 10th level rogue special ability grants. -ToK
Pitlords 08-03-05, 11:38 AM	Ok, here's the update: To decipher a Scroll you either have to have access to read magic, or a sufficent spellcraft modifier. You are assumed to take 20 on that check and must beat Dc20+spell level. If you pass that Dc, your scrolls are automatically assumed to be deciphered. The same goes for powerstones and psicraft although here, the DC is Dc15+power level. Alternative ways to decipher a scroll are the Use Magic Device skill to decipher a Written Spell (take 20 and Dc25+spell level) or Use Psionic Device to decode a powerstone (take 20 and Dc25+power level). You do not have to list these actions under the prebuff section. Characters that lack these prerequisites cannot use the scrolls and powerstones in question. You can take 20 on UMD and UPD here because there is no penalty for failure unlike with activating such a device.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-03-05, 11:38 AM	K, here is the reason why Lycan's have their HP shown the way it is. Lycanthropy can be cured! Thank you very much. It's not to confuse you. They have one set of HP in all forms. The reason they show it the way they do is because if you are cured (afflicted) then you lose those animal hd/hp and become weak again. -ToK
McJarvis 08-03-05, 11:39 AM	@Cat: Son of Kon is fighting again this week. Just to let you know, since I haven't been running chars lately :)
Prince FyreDragon 08-03-05, 12:01 PM	Cat<-----currently hating the day I joined CoCo because I am so damned nitpicky and I am causing him so much work over the little things LOL
sloisel 08-03-05, 01:08 PM	Has anyone else noticed that there's a 6d8 damage exotic ranged weapon in the DMG? Sebastien Loisel
Luni 08-03-05, 01:26 PM	Yep, but it isn't allowed. I wish the Gold Dwarf was playable. :)
Pitlords 08-03-05, 02:43 PM	@ALL: I have added Advanced Monsters to the Rules of the Game. They are now available, although there are some limitations and requirements that need to be fulfilled. You will find a full explanation in the FAQ: Cohorts and Allies (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466763) and the FAQ: NPC Services (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6467150). IMO this is a very good addition. It creates much more diversity and many more options. Many creatures are now still useful at higher levels. While a 4 HD Giant Eagle might not have been interesting to a lvl 15 character, he can now acquire a 12 HD huge version. Short Break-down: - You may acquire advanced monsters of creatures that either appear in the Handle Animal list (see FAQ: Cohorts and Allies), or are available for purchase (see FAQ: NPC Services). Not matter which modification you apply, you have to pay 2 credits. - You may also or alternatively apply the Elite Ability Array to creatures. Normally, all monsters use the Standard Array (all 10's and 11's). Elite Array is 15,14,13,12,10,8. CR increases by 1 if you use Elite Array. - CR and handle animal skill requirements increase with additonal hitdice. For bought animals, Elite Array doubles the price, and advancing bought creatures costs extra (see NPC Services). - You must announce your acquirement in the Blackmarket, no matter wether you have bought it or quested it. It costs credits, and you must link the confirmation post of the Pitlords GM Avatar to your sheet, like with Custom Items. @Prince: I'm very glad you are here!
Caterane 08-03-05, 02:56 PM	http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Charaktere/Harvester/Harvester-Robe-Sword.jpg
MystErikEry 08-03-05, 03:46 PM	When a Lycanthrope changes forms, his Constitution Modifier might change (and usually does). If it does, shouldn't his HP change, as well? Or is this an exception to the rule that changing Con Mods changes HP according to (Con-Change * HD)? Does it not change, because the Animal HD already apply the Animal Con Modifiers? Hmm... If his Con mod changes normally (ie as an enhancement bonus with a spell) does this only affect the HD of the base creature, leaving the HP of the animal alone? Thus making lycanthropes benefit less from Constitution increases than an ordinary character of their HD, since it wouldn't gain them any HP for, say, their six animal levels, and instead only give it for their one class level? Also... Can an afflicted Lycanthrope willingly fail his Will save when someone tries to cast remove curse / break enchantment on them during the full moon? :D
michael_noah 08-03-05, 03:54 PM	The way that you should compute your HPs is, add up all the "rolls", wherever they come from, then add bonus HP from Con, whatever your Con is at the time. Con always works the same for all your hit dice. Here's a really good question - what happens if a halfling becomes a were-Tiny Viper. What does the 1/4 HD do in terms of affecting ECL, etc?
sloisel 08-03-05, 04:00 PM	Now that we have many new members, I want to repeat the standing offer to gain credits for providing us with a good picture for the Pitlords Avatar (for this account here). You gain 1° per good suggestion, and 5° if it is the avatar we will choose. So, uhm, do I get some more credits? :) Also, Cat, you might want to get new curtains. We won't think you're a spendthrift if you do. (*) Sebastien Loisel (*) haha, so funny, haha k im gonna shutup now
Tellish_of_Ket 08-03-05, 04:05 PM	@ALL: I'm available for quests this week and next week. Anyone needing quests done can PM me. I will gladly run your character through a quest or mini-quest. -ToK
Mind Rogue 08-03-05, 04:13 PM	On the subject of afflicted lycanthropes, I would assume that we would use the real life lunar chart (using the day before, of, and after the real full moon), which makes the time of day very important for the lycans. Do the matches take place during the day or at night? Related to it would have to be whether the lycan actually has to be exposed to moonlight for the curse to take affect (I think the match is indoors which would prevent that), as well as the fact that the moon is often visible during the day.
Caterane 08-03-05, 04:34 PM	Revelation to In a Dream... (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179961&postcount=23) It had begun about a month ago. People reported having nightmares, and awoke with their bed full of their sweat, yet, few could describe their dreams. One thing, however, all these people's descriptions had in common was that of black rotten cloth pieces, like from a tattered robe. Others saw mailed hands or boots, and some described a weapon in form of a scythe. Many dissmissed it as nothing but a coincidence, others took it more seriously, knowing exactly who was the being in their dreams! Rumors of the Harvester's return spread throughout the city, and beyond. Was it possible? Was the Seraph of Death sending one of his avatars back to Gladius? And then, on one stormy moonless summer night, all inhabitants in the city suddenly stopped whatever they were doing! Gossip, bets, daring theories, philosophical discussions, and those just heralding the Apokalypse, were finally provided with new material for in that moment, everyone in Gladius knew it! The Harvester has returned!
MystErikEry 08-03-05, 06:29 PM	You know, I just realized that creating my dream character is kind of pointless, since there are no active ECL 12 (or anywhere near it...) characters. Mind you, by the time I get the required 36 credits, there might be XD But I'm going to struggle to get all the credits I can! :P A pic for the gallery is coming up soon, and I think next week I'll offer to run a big quest or something XD I also have to come up with a name for my eventual dream character. I'm thinking I like the name "Krusk".
Prince FyreDragon 08-03-05, 06:38 PM	You know, I just realized that creating my dream character is kind of pointless, since there are no active ECL 12 (or anywhere near it...) characters. Mind you, by the time I get the required 36 credits, there might be XD But I'm going to struggle to get all the credits I can! :P A pic for the gallery is coming up soon, and I think next week I'll offer to run a big quest or something XD I also have to come up with a name for my eventual dream character. I'm thinking I like the name "Krusk". If you are talking about your octopus that you have been asking about....the first thing I though of name-wise was Clash Of The Titans sea monster The Kraken LOL
Mind Rogue 08-03-05, 07:14 PM	Just so you all know (particularly Cat), I'm in the process of writing a program that will roll pairings. However, getting it done in time for this weeks pairings isn't going to happen. Next week doesn't look so good either, but hopefully I'l have a beta ready for the 17th. When I'm done, it should keep track of players, their users, and who the pitlords are. After that, I'll hopefully be able to update it to keep track of win/loss and power records.
sloisel 08-03-05, 07:50 PM	Ok, now we can assemble our new wolf. [...] and 40 hitpoins (5d8+con = (5*4.5) + (5*4) = 22.5+20; rounded down) Something doesn't add up here. Sebastien Loisel
MystErikEry 08-03-05, 08:02 PM	If you are talking about your octopus that you have been asking about....the first thing I though of name-wise was Clash Of The Titans sea monster The Kraken LOL Krackens are a type of aquatic monster already in D&D. Besides, it might be a nickname :D My planned character is a half-orc inhereted lycanthrope (giant octopus). ECL 12 (1 Barbarian + 8 Animal + 3 LA) His father was a half-orc fighter in the arena, and his mother was a human woman who was attacked by a vicious lycanthropic giant octopus while swimming one day. When he was born, his mother was miraculously cured of her afflicted, since it was passed on to him - but since he's grown up with it, he can control it. He's fairly quiet, quite anti-social (just like octopuses are; he likes to brood a lot), and wants to prove himself He likes swimming a lot, and enjoys most carnal or simple pleasures (although it takes quite a bit to get him motivated to a social event) : go, go, half-orc drummer! He doesn't really get poetry, but he does try to enjoy it when presented to him, although it's mostly "... uhh..." to him. His greyish skin can change colours just like the octopuses's can (which explains his racial hide bonus in his humanoid form, since these are applied to all forms (yay!) ). He'll likely have skills in Knowledge (Geography) [I'm planning to make him go for Horizon Walker], Listen, Swim (even though it's unnecessary, but he'd still have enough to swim even dangerous waters by taking 10...), and possibly Spot, too. He'll have to talk a level of Ranger before he can qualify for Horizon Walker, though. :< He'd also not bother wearing clothing in arena fights, considering he'd immediately turn into an octopus anyway...
Altaris13 08-03-05, 08:09 PM	His father was a half-orc fighter in the arena, and his mother was a human woman who was attacked by a vicious lycanthropic giant octopus while swimming one day. I've heard of *sniff sniff* fish... But that's just wrong! He'd also not bother wearing clothing in arena fights, considering he'd immediately turn into an octopus anyway... That's just... gross man, gross!!! :D
MystErikEry 08-03-05, 08:16 PM	That's just... gross man, gross!!! :D Hey, there's lots of historical references to naked gladiators. Plus, why would he wear clothing if he's going to have to take it off as soon as the combat starts, anyway? Besides, I imagine him as a fairly attractive young man. Despite a low Charisma score, his physical appearance is quite good --- he's not "overly buff" despite his high strength (it's refined muscles, which explains his fairly high Dex, too) and he's not ugly despite his low charisma (his low Charisma is a result of acting crude and somewhat anti-social, and brooding a lot, like octopuses do ;) ). :D I think it's cute.
Pitlords 08-04-05, 04:19 AM	@all: I think we have misunderstood the Skate tattoo. There is no weight limit if it is manifested on yourself. So since you can use it in that way it should cost double like every personal tattoo.
MystErikEry 08-04-05, 04:28 AM	@all: I think we have misunderstood the Skate tattoo. There is no weight limit if it is manifested on yourself. So since you can use it in that way it should cost double like every personal tattoo. You or one willing creature or one unattended object (total weight up to 100 lb./level); see text Except that you could then make a touch range Skate spell power, provided your total weight was up to 100 lb./level , since you are also "one willing creature" (the text says "You, another willing creature, or..." (emphasis mine) after all). The text doesn't mention this weight restriction at all, either. However, RAI likely means "if used on yourself, it is Personal, and with Touch, it must be used on someone or something other than yourself" since otherwise, saying it could be Personal rage is ridiculously unnecessary :P I also have a question about grappling with natural weapons, and also a question about natural weapons in general. If you have an opponent in a hold, how many times can you use the "damage opponent" action (which normally takes place of a regular attack action) ? Please check all the relevant rules before you answer this, as they are very weird in some places. Let's say for the example that you have +7/+2 BAB, and you have 4 tentacle (1d4+2 damage each) natural weapons (which in a normal full attack, you can each attack with, with +9 Attack Bonus, as they are your primary natural weapon). Your Strength Score is, thus, 14 (+2). If you have an opponent grappled, how many grapple checks can you make against them to "damage opponent" (as an action available in a grapple) to deal "unarmed" damage (this is natural weapon damage in this case, right? 1d4+2 ?) to them? Also, does a creature with natural weapons qualify for the Improved Grapple feat, even though they don't have Improved Unarmed Strike? Considering their "unarmed" attacks already do lethal damage...
Vathelokai 08-04-05, 06:45 AM	@Elders: When you make a wonderous item, do you use the creators CL or the min CL. For example, dust of illusion has a min caster lv of 6. The disguise self spell has a durration of 10 min/lv., so the item would have a durration of 1 hour per dose. The CoCo rules abolish the min CL on items, so it could be made by a 1st lv caster, for a durration of 10 min. If I were to buy the item at the standard price, which CL would I use? Also, my vote on skate is that it is not personal, because another person is listed as a target.
MystErikEry 08-04-05, 06:48 AM	The standard item fuctions as the description says - two hours. Even if you made it yourself, at a lower level than CL 6, it would still work for two hours. You just need access to Disguise Self for two days (likely best if you cast it yourself), and 600 gp and 40 xp. Also, the description of Skate says "You, or another willing target[...] " indicating that you are also considered a willing target, and thus should be able to target yourself with the Touch version of the spell. There is no reason ever to cast it as a Personal range spell - unless, of course, you cannot touch yourself (if your hands are bound in such a way you can't move them at all, perhaps, to hit yourself with the touch spell?) or something, but that's a bit extreme.
Pitlords 08-04-05, 06:55 AM	This time, ICED has sent me a picture of himself and his better half. If you don't see a picture of you in the Gallery (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4034178), you should send me one soon! 2 Credits for Iced.
sloisel 08-04-05, 09:25 AM	I was looking at the SRD variant classes and races. Since I haven't seen any gladiators with them, I assume they're illegal, but maybe it would be possible to look into approving some of them, the way the animal ally rules were recently expanded? Here's a list of some of the sections that don't look too out of step with current rules. Don't confuse this with splatbooks: splatbooks aren't SRD, these are. http://d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm http://d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm http://d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm http://d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm http://d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm http://d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm Sebastien Loisel
Pittbull 08-04-05, 09:32 AM	Our rule-source is not the online-SRD, which is a great help, but the official SRD from wizards-page (here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35)). I think, this variant are pretty nice, but illegal in the CoCo.
Altaris13 08-04-05, 09:50 AM	@Pittbull: isn't your link this same as this (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html) ??? I want to be sure I'm using the right source material.
Pittbull 08-04-05, 09:55 AM	Official SRD (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35) The two on-line SRDs are pretty good and more handy. But only the wizard's one is the official one.
Luni 08-04-05, 11:20 AM	@Elders: When you make a wonderous item, do you use the creators CL or the min CL. For example, dust of illusion has a min caster lv of 6. The disguise self spell has a durration of 10 min/lv., so the item would have a durration of 1 hour per dose. The CoCo rules abolish the min CL on items, so it could be made by a 1st lv caster, for a durration of 10 min. If I were to buy the item at the standard price, which CL would I use? Caster Level The next item in a notational entry gives the caster level of the item, indicating its relative power. The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation. This information is given in the form "CL x," where "CL" is an abbreviation for caster level and "x" is an ordinal number representing the caster level itself. For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given. Note: CL of a Wonderous Item, has nothing to do with the level needed to make it. Dust of Illusion can be made at level 3, and you could make a level 3 version of it, as that is the mininum requirements. (Craft Wonderous Item requires level 3).
sloisel 08-04-05, 12:58 PM	Our rule-source is not the online-SRD, which is a great help, but the official SRD from wizards-page (here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35)). I think, this variant are pretty nice, but illegal in the CoCo. Aha, I hadn't realized that this guy's "SRD" includes the Unearthed Arcana and the real SRD doesn't. Cheers, Sebastien Loisel
Prince FyreDragon 08-04-05, 04:57 PM	Is there a way (without spending credits) of making a psionic tattoo permanent, so that it can be used on, say, a per day basis? I don't know if the incarnate power would cover something like this or not. Also.... Copying Spellbooks: Most wizards who want to learn new spells and scribe them into their own spellbook seek out other wizards and copy the spells into their spellbooks ...for a fee. A wizard charges 50 gp x the spell's level for letting you copy one of his spells. Alternatively, a character may buy a scroll and copy the spell from there but this is only worthwhile in case of a 1st level spell. Is there a similar service available for manifesters to learn new powers? Per the SRD... Independent Research: A psion also can research a power independently, duplicating an existing power or creating an entirely new one. If characters are allowed to develop new powers, use these guidelines to handle the situation. Any kind of manifester can create a new power. The research involved requires access to a retreat conducive to uninterrupted meditation. Research involves an expenditure of 200 XP per week and takes one week per level of the power. At the end of that time, the character makes a Psicraft check (DC 10 + spell level). If that check succeeds, the character learns the new power if her research produced a viable power. If the check fails, the character must go through the research process again if she wants to keep trying. There is a way in a normal campaign, however I wonder if this can be modified to be something along the lines of what a wizard can do per the Gladius rules. There should also be a way for spontaneous casters (sorcerers, bards) to do this as well.
Prince FyreDragon 08-04-05, 07:45 PM	I noticed this in the fight that Erithmu just posted, and I would very much like to see the arena map altered to match this permanently....it would be so much more logical and I think it would make the matches easier to follow, since the below order is considered the mathematical norm. Prefight notes: I changed the +/- axis to represent the following order (normal graphical coordinate system, to me at least) -x+y|+x+y -x-y|+x-y
MystErikEry 08-04-05, 07:59 PM	I prefer to think of the origin as in the upper left. (1, 1) being the upper left corner, and extending postive to the right and down. This is because in Paint (and other such programs) the coordinates are done this way...
Luni 08-04-05, 08:17 PM	I think in Europe, they do grids the way Caterane has thigs laid out. I too am also used to the way Erithmu does it.
MystErikEry 08-04-05, 08:23 PM	I have a question! (And hopefully my questions will all eventually get answered ;) ) Can a Giant Octopus use its Ink and Jet extraordinary abilities outside of water? Nothing (except for common sense, but how often does that apply to D&D really?) suggests otherwise... :/
Erithmu 08-04-05, 08:26 PM	The only reason I did this is because in the very first fight I did, the first time I had it up .... most of the gladiators got free action dimention doors every other round. Which is cool and all, but ... not very effective when your in the wrong place to hit your opponent. @Fyre: you only noticed that now (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6821953&postcount=160) ?
Tellish_of_Ket 08-04-05, 08:41 PM	I have a question! (And hopefully my questions will all eventually get answered ;) ) Can a Giant Octopus use its Ink and Jet extraordinary abilities outside of water? Nothing (except for common sense, but how often does that apply to D&D really?) suggests otherwise... :/ Ink Jet without water to disperse it? No. Jet (ex): HELL NO! The octo is an aquatic subtype. In anything but human form, i'm not sure how you are gonna breathe? Both animal type and hybrid form take on the primary animal traits, and an octopus is aquatic as opposed to amphibious. So i'm not sure how you will breathe in the arena. If you were a were-whale, i can see you holding your breath at least. -ToK
Mind Rogue 08-04-05, 08:51 PM	I noticed this in the fight that Erithmu just posted, and I would very much like to see the arena map altered to match this permanently....it would be so much more logical and I think it would make the matches easier to follow, since the below order is considered the mathematical norm. I must be holding my printoff wrong then, cause my map is in the standard cartesian coordinate system, with the positives in the upper right corner.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-04-05, 09:28 PM	For those thinking or entertaining the idea of joining campaigns and wondering if it's worth it. Condition Summary: Lady Tira: 19/19 hp [-1 con (16/16 hp)], [fatigued] Nicolae: 3/18 hp [pois1, saved/??], [pois2, -2str/??], [pois3, saved/??], [pois4, -3str/??], [pois5, -2str/??], [pois6, saved/??] Denshi: 18/18 hp Basil: 20/20 hp [fatigued] Sir Doyle: 16/16 hp [-1 con (13/13 hp)] Drudwyn: -1/15 [pois1, saved/??], [pois2, saved/??], [pois3, -1str/??], [pois4, saved/??] Just wanna make a public thanks for the party to actually survive this encounter. Quick thinking on Luni and Vathelokai really helped. See, now that's what you are all missing. Why bother with boring arena fights....when you could be CAMPAIGNING!!! I see there are still some campaign logs unfilled and campaign masters wishing to run them. Please get involved, they are worth it. Both for the campaign lord and the players. Again, grats to my players from A History Lesson, Part 1 (http://boards1.wizards.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=6589483) -ToK *edit...just to let you know, that was only one round of combat. A fortuitous fire elemental ended it on the second round.
Prince FyreDragon 08-04-05, 09:46 PM	For those thinking or entertaining the idea of joining campaigns and wondering if it's worth it. Just wanna make a public thanks for the party to actually survive this encounter. Quick thinking on Luni and Vathelokai really helped. See, now that's what you are all missing. Why bother with boring arena fights....when you could be CAMPAIGNING!!! I see there are still some campaign logs unfilled and campaign masters wishing to run them. Please get involved, they are worth it. Both for the campaign lord and the players. Again, grats to my players from A History Lesson, Part 1 (http://boards1.wizards.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=6589483) -ToK *edit...just to let you know, that was only one round of combat. A fortuitous fire elemental ended it on the second round. When campaigns and quests don't cost credits, I'm sure you'd get many more people volunteering....but with so many of us with no credits at all, that sorta makes it difficult. Not costing credits would definitely change things for me....
MystErikEry 08-04-05, 09:58 PM	Ink Jet without water to disperse it? No. Jet (ex): HELL NO! The octo is an aquatic subtype. In anything but human form, i'm not sure how you are gonna breathe? Both animal type and hybrid form take on the primary animal traits, and an octopus is aquatic as opposed to amphibious. So i'm not sure how you will breathe in the arena. If you were a were-whale, i can see you holding your breath at least. -ToK Um... #1) Ink says that it creates a cloud of ink. There is nothing suggesting this has to be liquid ink or somesuch. You can create choking clouds, smoke clouds, solid clouds of fog (which is water, a liquid, anyway), and so on. It doesn't say it can only be used underwater. #2) Jet doesn't say it uses water, either :P If the entry said "An octopus uses water to propel itself..." or somesuch, then yes, sure, but it just says it jets backwards... #3) A character, aquatic or not, can survive without breathing for a number of rounds equal to twice his Con modifier (see: Suffocation/Drowning DMG). The octopus has a listed ground speed. If it wasn't intended to go on land ever, it would have no ground speed listed. As it is, an octopus can survive out of water for some time. Even in real life, many octopuses go ashore temporarily to catch some tasty crabs, and can even survive up to about a half an hour, provided they stay a little damp (ie they're not roasting in the sun or anything). They can't stay out indefinitely, obviously, but a were-octopus could transform back into his humanoid/giant form in order to take another deep breath, if he felt it was necessary, thus resetting the number of rounds he can hold his breath in. Common sense says that an octopus couldn't use Ink or Jet outside of the water, but nothing at all in the entry indicates otherwise. Ink says it creates a cloud (which could be a literal cloud, as in an amount of floating particles of liquid lighter than air) of ink, and doesn't say anything about being underwater. Jet just says they move backwards at 200 ft speed in a straight line. It doesn't say which speed this modifies - if it mentioned swim speed, then yes - it would only affect his swim speed. As it is, it means it gets 200 ft to its speed (land or swim) when it uses Jet, provided it only moves in a straight line and as a full-round action. Compare this to the Shark's entry, which specifically mentions that its extraordinary abilities only work in water, despite the fact that it doesn't even have a ground speed. A were-shark would not gain these abilities in hybrid form, despite keeping its ground speed, as they are specifically useable only in water anyway. (Oh, and I don't think it gains those Special Attacks, anyway, but even if it did, it couldn't use them :P ) Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if, here, they ruled it that Octopuses can't use Ink or Jet outside of water. I'd just want a GM ruling on it. However, nobody will stop my character from turning into an octopus, even if it is an aquatic creature, and not dying instantly :P There are rules for being without accessible oxygen.
SoulLord 08-04-05, 10:22 PM	When campaigns and quests don't cost credits, I'm sure you'd get many more people volunteering....but with so many of us with no credits at all, that sorta makes it difficult. Not costing credits would definitely change things for me.... I have a proposal for this. charging credits it's mainly done as to show commitment to the campaign hence the credit cost. but how about if credits are charged IF a player has to leave a campaign early. the deterrent might not be as strong as charging 5 credits beforehand but this way many many more players would manage to get involved.
Luni 08-04-05, 10:31 PM	@Soullord: Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Not charging credits, can still cause people to leave. Oh look, you lose -5 credits. No big deal unless we start saying people with negative credits can't participate in anything. As for getting credits, go through the Battles of Gladius. Find a battle, and write a short story about it. Let the pitlord of the battle know, and he can post it in the thread. That nets 1 credit.
SoulLord 08-04-05, 10:55 PM	I know it's not as big a deal as paying up front but it would encourage more people to join. How about if someone has negative credits it cannot participate at all in the colliseum (except to earn credits) It's more harsh but I think people would be willing to risk it.
Zerone 08-04-05, 11:06 PM	@ King Uther: Balbanes?!? A Beoulve perhaps? :D *•. Z
Vathelokai 08-05-05, 10:20 PM	Yeah! The boards are back up!
Prince FyreDragon 08-05-05, 10:42 PM	Yeah! Boards are back in time for the weekend....hopefully this week can be completed with no extensions.....people better be on their games and get tactics in ASAP LOL
MystErikEry 08-06-05, 01:26 AM	I have a question! What magical items can an octopus wear: One headband, hat, helmet, or phylactery on the head One pair of eye lenses or goggles on or over the eyes One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around the neck One vest, vestment, or shirt on the torso One robe or suit of armor on the body (over a vest, vestment, or shirt) One belt around the waist (over a robe or suit of armor) One cloak, cape, or mantle around the shoulders (over a robe or suit of armor) One pair of bracers or bracelets on the arms or wrists One glove, pair of gloves, or pair of gauntlets on the hands One ring on each hand (or two rings on one hand) One pair of boots or shoes on the feet I've bolded the one I think an octopus could feasibly wear. What do you think? While an octopus doesn't have a "neck", it could surely wear a necklace around its mantle, and while it doesn't have a waist, it could be worn in the same area (only lower?)... Do you think it could feasibly wear a cloak or cape, too? Although bracers/bracelets are supposed to be on the arms/wrists, they would work just fine on tentacles, wouldn't they? Perhaps even rings can go on the tentacles, but I'm not sure. o_o; I will definitely need to know this.
Pitlords 08-06-05, 06:40 AM	@all: I have finally added the long discussed earning money by using skills. You can find the details in the FAQ: Skills and Feats (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466576), first header. It is allowed from next wednesday on.
Pitlords 08-06-05, 07:50 AM	We need to divide Use Psionc Device and Use Magic Device. I am sure they are not subject to the magic/psionic transperancy, just like Spellcraft and Psicraft are not subject to this transperancy either. My main concern is the abuse that comes along with it. Best example is the Shaper Psion, who gets UPD as a class skill. That means he would also be easily able to cast EVERY spell, use every wand, rod, staff, etc and this just cannot be, nor is it intented to be used in that way by the creators of the rules. We already have several characters that use this concept to use every spell and power available. On top of that, you can buy a UPD+10 item for 10° in the Blackmarket. With that it is easy for every character to use every magic and psionic item in the book. That's way too powerful. We should also keep an eye on those items as they decrease the usefulness of skill points. So to summarize: Use Psionic Device can only be used for psionic items like Use magic device can only be used for magic ones.
Kaigan 08-06-05, 10:59 AM	I've been saying that for the last month and no one has listened to me!!!!
Tellish_of_Ket 08-06-05, 11:00 AM	I have a question! What magical items can an octopus wear: I've bolded the one I think an octopus could feasibly wear. What do you think? While an octopus doesn't have a "neck", it could surely wear a necklace around its mantle, and while it doesn't have a waist, it could be worn in the same area (only lower?)... Do you think it could feasibly wear a cloak or cape, too? Although bracers/bracelets are supposed to be on the arms/wrists, they would work just fine on tentacles, wouldn't they? Perhaps even rings can go on the tentacles, but I'm not sure. o_o; I will definitely need to know this. You will find you will have a lot of problems. Octopi do not have a discernable waist, or neck. We had many similar problems with a certain PC owl. Trying to do many things that require hands. -ToK
Vathelokai 08-06-05, 11:38 AM	There is an item, masterwork tool, that is described as giving "+2 to skill." Then there is MW artisans tools, which give +2 to a craft skill. I assume that MW tool is for non craft skills, but most non craft skills have thieir own special MW tool (thieves kit, disguise kit, heal kit, etc). The only other skills I can think of that these tools could apply to are knowledge and profession. So, my question is can I buy "MW tool (maps)" which give +2 to know:geography or "MW tool (abacus)" which give +2 to prof:merchant?
McJarvis 08-06-05, 11:40 AM	We need to divide Use Psionc Device and Use Magic Device. I am sure they are not subject to the magic/psionic transperancy, just like Spellcraft and Psicraft are not subject to this transperancy either. My main concern is the abuse that comes along with it. Best example is the Shaper Psion, who gets UPD as a class skill. That means he would also be easily able to cast EVERY spell, use every wand, rod, staff, etc and this just cannot be, nor is it intented to be used in that way by the creators of the rules. We already have several characters that use this concept to use every spell and power available. On top of that, you can buy a UPD+10 item for 10° in the Blackmarket. With that it is easy for every character to use every magic and psionic item in the book. That's way too powerful. We should also keep an eye on those items as they decrease the usefulness of skill points. So to summarize: Use Psionic Device can only be used for psionic items like Use magic device can only be used for magic ones. Erm...one of my chars is based off this idea roughly...I'll have to scrap him/rebuild now because his skills are kinda useless :( [Wasted skill points on synergies that I could have spent on more useful skills, wasted gold on psionic items I can't use now, etc] ...or could I rework my skill list and skill point alotment without remaking the char? B-) EDIT- Also, my tactics for this week involve using a powerstone of chameleon that I thought I could use. Can this ruling go into effect for next week so I at least have time to replan my attack?
Pitlords 08-06-05, 03:04 PM	Those characters who are affected by that change can send me a PM with the link to their character sheet and I will check if you may alter him. I am aware that some characters might have to be changed - Willbrock and Kota are based on that concept - but better now than having a brigade of broken character concepts later. Sorry, but there's too much abuse potential there. I'll also rewrite a part of the Blackmarket later to clarify customizations. @Vathe: See FAQ: Skills @Tellish: The Blackmarket is for purchases only.
Luni 08-06-05, 03:36 PM	I finally figured out how to make the nifty credit symbol. Use the keypad only! hit Alt - 0176 and it produces ° for me.
Luni 08-06-05, 04:01 PM	From the Rules of Galdius: Skills and Feats here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466576&postcount=9) To decipher a scroll or address a powerstone, the item needs to be identified first. This can be done with a Spellcraft (scrolls) or Psicraft (powerstones) check. You are assumed to take 10 on the check, and you must pass the Dc of the item (Scrolls: Dc20+spell level; Powerstones: Dc15+power level). If you have access to the read magic spell, you do not need to make any spellcraft checks. Since Psychic Warriors don't get Psicraft as a class skill, they will almost never be able to address stones. Psicraft is a trained skill as well. There are many characters who don't have +6 to Psicraft for level 1 stones.
Cerebus13 08-06-05, 04:21 PM	Why only take 10 on the check? There is no consequence for failing this roll so I would assume you take 20 on it.
Luni 08-06-05, 04:38 PM	I don't have a problem on taking 20. It's up to the elders to change it.
MystErikEry 08-06-05, 05:01 PM	You will find you will have a lot of problems. Octopi do not have a discernable waist, or neck. We had many similar problems with a certain PC owl. Trying to do many things that require hands. -ToK Well, it depends sort of on how you define "waist"... If it's "where motive limbs connect to the body", the octopus certainly has that... It probably doesn't have a neck, though, as it doesn't have a body that connects to it's head - it's all mantle, skirt, and tentacles (arms)... Also, what kinds of things require hands? A tentacle is very precise, and I imagine it could be used like a hand in many cases (although obviously not in the kind of action required for swinging a weapon). I need to know the things an octopus could wear, so I know what I need to make for him :P
Pitlords 08-06-05, 05:22 PM	@Luni: It IS Take 20. See FAQ: Arena Combat II: To decipher a Scroll you either have to have access to read magic, or a sufficent spellcraft modifier. You are assumed to take 20 on that check and must beat Dc20+spell level. If you pass that Dc, your scrolls are automatically assumed to be deciphered. The same goes for powerstones and psicraft although here, the DC is Dc15+power level. Alternative ways to decipher a scroll are the Use Magic Device skill to decipher a Written Spell (take 20 and Dc25+spell level) or Use Psionic Device to decode a powerstone (take 20 and Dc25+power level). You do not have to list these actions under the prebuff section. Characters that lack these prerequisites cannot use the scrolls and powerstones in question. I just didn't change it in the FAQ: Skills. Thanks for pointing that out. Corrected. @all: The Blackmarket has been clarified, especially items related to the ones in the DMG has been split into 3 different categories. I've also added rules for Intelligent Items there.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-06-05, 05:31 PM	Well, it depends sort of on how you define "waist"... If it's "where motive limbs connect to the body", the octopus certainly has that... It probably doesn't have a neck, though, as it doesn't have a body that connects to it's head - it's all mantle, skirt, and tentacles (arms)... Also, what kinds of things require hands? A tentacle is very precise, and I imagine it could be used like a hand in many cases (although obviously not in the kind of action required for swinging a weapon). I need to know the things an octopus could wear, so I know what I need to make for him :P Well, i don't wanna go near this one with a 10' pole. My suggestion is to just ask Cat what he thinks they could use/manipulate/wear, and we can go from there. Overall, though, i think you will be at the mercy of the pitlord running your fight. Not a good thing. Ask Bubo the owl. -ToK
Mind Rogue 08-06-05, 05:54 PM	Hmm, I'll take the debit to buy you the 10' pole. Personally, I think the only reason it is in the PHB is so when someone says they wouldn't go someplace with a ten-foot pole, you can.
Vathelokai 08-06-05, 05:56 PM	@pitlords: About the tools question from earlier...In the FAQ it says that profession uses the 50 gp tools. The other part of my question was about knowledges using tools. Like maps and compass for know:geograpy and reference books for know:planes. It makes sense to me that you could use a tool like that given that you had 10 minutes to look things up. @MystErikEry: The prob. I see with the were-oc is that there will be no one else of your lv to fight in the arena. As for magic items, I'd say 2 rings, necklace or belt, a head piece, bracers/braclet, and a cloak. Anything other then that seems like it would fall off when he went to full oc form.
Luni 08-06-05, 06:10 PM	@Luni: It IS Take 20. See FAQ: Arena Combat II: I just didn't change it in the FAQ: Skills. Thanks for pointing that out. Corrected. @all: The Blackmarket has been clarified, especially items related to the ones in the DMG has been split into 3 different categories. I've also added rules for Intelligent Items there. No problem, Caterane. I just didn't see that there.
Caterane 08-06-05, 06:19 PM	@Vath: Sorry, only those in the FAQ allowed. @Pauper: The Prison of Gladius is under construction. I have written "DO NOT POST HERE" in big red letters at the top. I'll call a wizo to delete it :/
Erithmu 08-06-05, 06:51 PM	I am looking for a questmaster to do a 3 week quest. I dont see a list of available questmasters, but I would like to try to start it this comming week. I have a pretty good idea of what I am looking to do. If someone would send me a PM if they are available and would like to support a quest.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-06-05, 07:08 PM	I am looking for a questmaster to do a 3 week quest. I dont see a list of available questmasters, but I would like to try to start it this comming week. I have a pretty good idea of what I am looking to do. If someone would send me a PM if they are available and would like to support a quest. I am available Erithmu. I'm making one for Zerone as well to start this Wednesday i may as well kill two birds with one stone. It will be much simpler. Just PM me with what you wanna quest for a bit of history, any stories about your character or quest that i can quickly read up upon and we'll see you Wednesday. -ToK
MystErikEry 08-06-05, 07:40 PM	@MystErikEry: The prob. I see with the were-oc is that there will be no one else of your lv to fight in the arena. As for magic items, I'd say 2 rings, necklace or belt, a head piece, bracers/braclet, and a cloak. Anything other then that seems like it would fall off when he went to full oc form. Well, I know there'll be nobody at ECL 12... however, by the time I get the 36 credits required, there might be. Also, I think it might be okay to have a team match with me as one side, and a bunch of ECL 8/7/6's on the other side XD I just want to have him. I can see a head piece easy (as they do have heads), and the tentacles certainly act like arms for bracers/bracelets. Necklace/belts are hard, since I don't know how you would define "neck" or "waist" --- in an octopus, these are almost the same area ("neck" being "where the head attaches to the rest of the body" and "waist" being "where the locomotive limbs attach to the body")... For a cloak, I'm not 100% sure if it could work, but I can imagine an octopuse wearing a mantle on its mantle, so why not? :D I will note however that worm objects break when he transforms, since the octopus form is larger than he is. Basically, he'd start with a pile of items in front of him, transform into an octopus, put them all on (as an octopus - and this is the tricky part, since there are some things you can't do with tentacles, such as do up buttons :P ) and THEN kick butt. XD
Vathelokai 08-06-05, 08:52 PM	I'd say only one wrap around piece, like a belt or a phylactery or a necklace. Since you are saving up the creds anyway, get him a ring of prestidigitation, so that he can get dressed quickly. Also, many magic items adjust in size to fit the wearer. I don't see why they wouldn't adjust to shapeshifting.
MystErikEry 08-06-05, 09:20 PM	Also, many magic items adjust in size to fit the wearer. I don't see why they wouldn't adjust to shapeshifting. Changing Form Changing form is a standard action. If the change is involuntary, the character performs the change on his next turn following the triggering event. Changing to animal or hybrid form ruins the character’s armor and clothing (including any items worn) if the new form is larger than the character’s natural form; carried items are simply dropped. Characters can hastily doff clothing while changing, but not armor. Magic armor survives the change if it succeeds on a DC 15 Fortitude save. An afflicted character who is not aware of his condition remains in animal form until the next dawn. An afflicted character who is aware of his or her condition (see above) can try to resume humanoid form following a change (voluntary or involuntary) with a Control Shape check, but if he fails his check, he remains in animal (or hybrid) form until the following dawn. Why lycanthropes have to have such a rough time, I'm not 100% sure, but it IS a pain. :D
Vathelokai 08-06-05, 09:26 PM	At least it's only armor. Rings and necklaces should be fine.
MystErikEry 08-06-05, 09:29 PM	It specifically says that it ruins items worn... I would say a ring is a worn item (as it's worn on one of the body slots), so it would thus be ruined if worn while transformed. You would think magical items other than armor would also make saves, too, but it says only magical armor does. *shrugs*
Pitlords 08-07-05, 11:26 AM	Finally, the CoCo's Top Storywriter has submitted a photo. Visit the Gallery (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4034076) and look for Huan. Huan +2°
McJarvis 08-07-05, 12:47 PM	Finally, the CoCo's Top Storywriter has submitted a photo. Visit the Gallery (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4034076) and look for Huan. Huan +2° I knew I was forgetting to send something...despondant pic of me sent :)
Pitlords 08-07-05, 01:17 PM	McJarvis is now beholdable in the Gallery (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4034076). McJarvis +2°
Zerone 08-07-05, 01:20 PM	If someone is glued to the floor with a Tanglefoot Bag, Could the opponent maneuver behind that person and attack them from behind or is the person who is glued to the floor able to turn and face their opponent? The humaniod anatomy does not allow one to rotate at the waste 180° (120° at best) - so it is possible that one could maneuver behind the other person while their feet are glued to the floor. Comments? *•. Z Edit: Can I get my +2 Credits for a Picture???
McJarvis 08-07-05, 01:25 PM	If someone is glued to the floor with a Tanglefoot Bag, Could the opponent maneuver behind that person and attack them from behind or is the person who is glued to the floor able to turn and face their opponent? The humaniod anatomy does not allow one to rotate at the waste 180° (120° at best) - so it is possible that one could maneuver behind the other person while their feet are glued to the floor. Comments? I think 3.5 D&D doesn't account for which way a person is facing.((IE- by rules, this doesn't matter))
sloisel 08-07-05, 03:33 PM	I don't find anything special in the CoCo rules about improving magical items, so I guess the standard core rules apply? http://d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#addingNewAbilitie s There's just one question. If I try to add a +1 equivalent power to my already +1 longsword, i.e., going from a 2000gp sword to an 8000gp sword, and assuming that my character isn't doing the enchanting himself, do I: 1) Pay 6000gp and I have my sword. 2) Pay 6000gp and I'll have my sword in 6 days, my character isn't active since he's not "building" stuff, but rather he's "shopping." 3) Pay 6000gp, my character is out for a week and he's considered active? I'm hoping for 1 or 2 (3 doesn't seem reasonable.) Sebastien Loisel
Zerone 08-07-05, 05:14 PM	I think 3.5 D&D doesn't account for which way a person is facing.((IE- by rules, this doesn't matter)) Well, since we have decided to use logic within the CoCo I ask that it be used here, as it is physically impossible for a humanoid to turn 180° at the waste. Therefore, they could not attack me if their feet were pinned to the floor and I stood behind them. Plain and simple. :) *•. Z
Zerone 08-07-05, 05:15 PM	I don't find anything special in the CoCo rules about improving magical items, so I guess the standard core rules apply? http://d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#addingNewAbilitie s There's just one question. If I try to add a +1 equivalent power to my already +1 longsword, i.e., going from a 2000gp sword to an 8000gp sword, and assuming that my character isn't doing the enchanting himself, do I: 1) Pay 6000gp and I have my sword. 2) Pay 6000gp and I'll have my sword in 6 days, my character isn't active since he's not "building" stuff, but rather he's "shopping." 3) Pay 6000gp, my character is out for a week and he's considered active? I'm hoping for 1 or 2 (3 doesn't seem reasonable.) Sebastien Loisel It is #1. *•. Z
sloisel 08-07-05, 05:20 PM	I think 3.5 D&D doesn't account for which way a person is facing.((IE- by rules, this doesn't matter)) That's correct. There is no facing in D&D. Sebastien Loisel
McJarvis 08-07-05, 05:26 PM	Well, since we have decided to use logic within the CoCo I ask that it be used here, as it is physically impossible for a humanoid to turn 180° at the waste. Therefore, they could not attack me if their feet were pinned to the floor and I stood behind them. Plain and simple. :) *•. Z *literally gets up from his computer and tries this out...* After rigorous testing in the hallway outside of this room, I've decided you can turn 180 if you bend your knees a bit too. Also, maybe your feet arn't glued to the ground. Maybe it's like mud: you can move them, just not enough to get anywhere fast.
Zerone 08-07-05, 05:28 PM	Well, since we have decided to use logic within the CoCo I ask that it be used here, as it is physically impossible for a humanoid to turn 180° at the waste. Therefore, they could not attack me if their feet were pinned to the floor and I stood behind them. Plain and simple. :) *•. Z I'll just quote myself and trust that logic and reason will dictate here.
Zerone 08-07-05, 05:30 PM	*literally gets up from his computer and tries this out...* After rigorous testing in the hallway outside of this room, I've decided you can turn 180 if you bend your knees a bit too. Also, maybe your feet arn't glued to the ground. Maybe it's like mud: you can move them, just not enough to get anywhere fast. The description of Tanglefoor Bag is 'glued to the floor'. No room for error there. If you make your save it's like being in mud, as your movement is reduced to half.
McJarvis 08-07-05, 05:30 PM	I'll just quote myself and trust that logic and reason will dictate here. ...but in my little test I even mimic swiping a sword. I could hit someone behind me without moving my feet, even if it is a little less effecient then usual... EDIT- Oh, didn't read the actual description on tanglefoot bag :). I suppose a - to attack at least would be called for, if we're using logic I could easily aim a bow or crossbow without a problem, a melee weapon would probably be a little cumbersome.
xanadu 08-07-05, 06:27 PM	I think 3.5 D&D doesn't account for which way a person is facing.((IE- by rules, this doesn't matter)) This is correct, there is no facing and thus no "behind" in which a creature is vulnerable.
nightbanegod 08-07-05, 06:29 PM	wow... one would think we are getting all scientific all of a sudden... im just wating for the scientific equations someone is bound to post before long to determine whether or not your character could turn around or not...
Luni 08-07-05, 06:34 PM	Well, I just did a scientific study, and I found out, that orcs can move their torso a full 360°! Since I was using the only orc on Earth, my study is obviously true. He won't be appearing before the media anytime soon. Really!
GuardianAngel 08-07-05, 08:31 PM	Ok so I am running this 2 vs 2 battle and How do i figure out the exp and gp of the winners and looses? Also I know thier was a deadline for the tactics and I even set a special Deadline becuase I couldn't get on friday but I recieved tatics after this Should I change the battle to fit into his tatics? It might change the battle drasticly.
nightbanegod 08-07-05, 10:48 PM	i got a beef with a note on my dalamar fight from week 7/27... as a 3rd lvl character i read in the rules for CoCo that i can get spells and what not no higher than 2 character lvls higher than my self ... so i should be able to buy a 3rd lvl spell as a 3rd lvl caster and i would just have a 15% chance of failure since its caster lvl +1 DC caster lvl check that i got to make and since im a 3rd caster lvl character. however TCB said i couldnt even have the fireball scroll in the first place ... its only a caster lvl 5th character lvl 5th spell scroll so as a caster lvl 3rd character lvl 3rd i dont see where the hang up is... any comments?
Mind Rogue 08-07-05, 11:11 PM	That is an error, and you should be allowed the scroll. Even though you are only a wiz 2, you are still a 3rd level character and can purchase 3rd level scrolls. I seem to recall though that it didn't matter; you knocked Niobe into retirement anyway.
King Uther 08-08-05, 01:22 AM	I am switching Body Adjustment with Dissolving Weapon so I can use pp to actually pre-buff something. Never used Body adjustment, only had it for one fight anyways. Edit: I also took Astral COnstruct with a feat, but decided to switch it for Energy Ray for personal reasons.
sloisel 08-08-05, 08:19 AM	I think there's a slight divergence with core hit point generation method and our hit point generation (notwithstanding the lack of a die roll.) Below, I ignore the first-hd-is-max rule (let's say this is for an npc.) A 10th level wizard with +0con and no feats will have 25 hit points, on average in core and in the coliseum. A 10th level wizard with -1con will have 15 hit points in the coliseum, however the average of 1d4-1 with a minimum of 1 is (1+1+2+3)/4=7/4=1.75, so a core wizard with -1con will have 17.5 hit points at level 10. A 10th level wizard with -2con will have either 5 hit points in the coliseum, or 10 if we clamp the per-die hp at 1 (I don't know if we do that). A core wizard would average (1+1+1+2)/4=1.25 hit points per hit die, so would have 12.5 hit points at level 10. These are substantial differences for these types of characters. Would we consider replacing the "1d4=2.5" table by a "1d4=2.5, 1d4-1=1.75, 1d4-2=1.25, 1d4-3=1" table? Addendum: Actually, this would fubar con modifying spells. RAW are more complicated than I thought for negative con mods! This level 10 wizard with rolls 3,2,3,2,3,2,3,2,3,2 with 8 con and coliseum rules would have 15 hit points. Drain him to 6 con, he's got 10 hit points (not 5!) Drain him to 1 con, he's still got 10 hit points. Maybe we should declare that the rolls for a d8 (for instance) are automatically 4,5,4,5,4,5,... ? Sebastien Loisel
Caterane 08-08-05, 09:04 AM	We should keep it as simple as possible. x.5 is easy to understand.
sloisel 08-08-05, 09:17 AM	We should keep it as simple as possible. x.5 is easy to understand. Yeah I think so too, but now I'm more concerned about wizards that die at 5 con from con drain, which is against the rules. When a wizard drops to 9 con (from 10), he should lose (level) hit points. When he drops to 7 (from 8), he should lose (level/2) hit points because his hit dice went from 1.5 to 0.5, which is clamped at 1, so he only loses .5 hit points per hit die. At 5 con and below, he doesn't lose any hit points. Sebastien Loisel
sloisel 08-08-05, 09:36 AM	1) In a real game, my level 6 sorceror usually casts 3 mage armors a day with half-hour overlaps so he's protected all day. I'm guessing this doesn't fly as prebuff in the coliseum? 2) Do I have to memorize spells on the character sheet or can I do it in the tactics? Must I prebuff in the character sheet or can I do it in the tactics? The FAQ doesn't seem clear on this. Sebastien Loisel
Caterane 08-08-05, 09:49 AM	1) No it is not allowed but the issue is not laid to rest. We have to see the impact on high level fights to allow it. 2) You must reveil all spells on your sheet. Any spell not memorized is considered not available.
sloisel 08-08-05, 09:58 AM	1) No it is not allowed but the issue is not laid to rest. We have to see the impact on high level fights to allow it. Ok, well it'd be nice if this issue could come to a closure. My real-life sorcerors never take extended spell (too few feats!), but it's awful tempting to do so in the arena. Sebastien Loisel
Caterane 08-08-05, 10:03 AM	My real-life sorcerors never take extended spell (too few feats!), but it's awful tempting to do so in the arena. You have just found out the issue I have with such a rule. You also misunderstood me: it's not pending, it is clearly ruled out. We might look at it again when we read high-level fights. And that's months away.
sloisel 08-08-05, 10:53 AM	You have just found out the issue I have with such a rule. You also misunderstood me: it's not pending, it is clearly ruled out. We might look at it again when we read high-level fights. And that's months away. Ah ok. Good to know. Cheers, Sebastien Loisel
Aramil Dunskar 08-08-05, 11:22 AM	Hello again :D Well now that I've had time to clear up some things that I needed to get done over the summer, I believe that I can come back to Gladius, I'll think up a character soon and post him. It feels good to be back :D
Prince FyreDragon 08-08-05, 11:45 AM	Hello again :D Well now that I've had time to clear up some things that I needed to get done over the summer, I believe that I can come back to Gladius, I'll think up a character soon and post him. It feels good to be back :D Didn't know ya before, since I've only been here a short time myself, but welcome back!
Caterane 08-08-05, 12:11 PM	Hello again :D Well now that I've had time to clear up some things that I needed to get done over the summer, I believe that I can come back to Gladius, I'll think up a character soon and post him. It feels good to be back :D Hey Aramil, good to see you again! I have still two of your characters on my disk. Do you want me to put them up again? Here they are: Aramil Belha’doon (Aramil Dunskar) [Power: 828 (828); 0 won, 2 lost] Grakk Mightyfist (Aramil Dunskar) [Power: 1980 (990); 6 won, 5 lost]
sloisel 08-08-05, 12:30 PM	I noticed that there's some uncertainty regarding some of the monster gear (the Yuan-ti were mentionned.) Why don't we just make a bunch of monsters and monster groups for various ECL's, and let the pitlords pick from those? Sebastien Loisel
Pittbull 08-08-05, 12:45 PM	The other important question is, shall the intelligent monster know whom they fight and be prepared for them?
xanadu 08-08-05, 12:49 PM	Intelligent monsters should have a variety of equipment to face different encounters...just as our gladiators have. So an archer monster will have all types of arrows, a melee monster will likely have bull's strength potions and a back-up range weapon, a caster monster will have resist energy scroll of some sort, etc. Its equipment should no be tailored vs. a specific opponent - that is unfair - but how it uses its equipment should be.
Altaris13 08-08-05, 01:31 PM	Intelligent monsters should have a variety of equipment to face different encounters...just as our gladiators have. So an archer monster will have all types of arrows, a melee monster will likely have bull's strength potions and a back-up range weapon, a caster monster will have resist energy scroll of some sort, etc. Its equipment should no be tailored vs. a specific opponent - that is unfair - but how it uses its equipment should be. I'll second that. And add that it should also depend on the Intelligence & CR of the creatures involved. Orcs is orcs & will have orcs's lewt. ;) Drow, on the other hand, would be prepared quite differently (or Yuan-Ti, per the example.)
Altaris13 08-08-05, 01:39 PM	Is there an official ruling on this? Please see here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6904606#post6904606) This is relevant to the fight I'm working on.
xanadu 08-08-05, 01:55 PM	Altaris, "If you trip an opponent in melee combat" from improved trip seems pretty straightforward; it does not appear how you trip an opponent is relevant. That being said, the errata Ingo pasted seems to present a specific scenario which overrides the text in the improved-trip feat. This for me says no free attack. This makes sense to me. As a DM, I would be uncomfortable allowing regular attack - trip - extra regular attack it seems to make improved trip obsolete.
TelinArtho 08-08-05, 02:11 PM	Another Summoner of Denth has arrived to the calling of the arena. Tlanth (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6904914)
KerlanRayne 08-08-05, 02:43 PM	Altaris, "If you trip an opponent in melee combat" from improved trip seems pretty straightforward; it does not appear how you trip an opponent is relevant. That being said, the errata Ingo pasted seems to present a specific scenario which overrides the text in the improved-trip feat. This for me says no free attack. This makes sense to me. As a DM, I would be uncomfortable allowing regular attack - trip - extra regular attack it seems to make improved trip obsolete. The reason it doesn't work is becaus of the rest of that quote "If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt." With knockdown you get a free trip attack, if you hadn't used it to trip you would have gotten ... nothing. So You can't use improved trip. KerlanRayne
Prince FyreDragon 08-08-05, 03:11 PM	@ all members acting as Pitlords I wanted to post this, because after having it happen in one of my battles, I went back through the Battles thread and noticed the same mistake with a few other battles. This is in regards to a combatant's initiative reseting as a result of a readied action. Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action. You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round. Emphasis mine. I have noticed many battles where the initiative reset is causing the fighter with a readied action to have their initiative reset to be *after their opponent, instead of before it. Be careful with this, since in an arena, initiative is one of the more important stats to have. And now back to your regularly scheduled Tavern chat.
Vathelokai 08-08-05, 03:20 PM	I believe the confusion comes from the delay action. Readied actions reset to before, delayed actions reset to after. Readied actions interupt an activity, delayed actions happen after an activity. So basicly, the initiative resets to whenever the char. acted. @Prince and Telin: Also the comments for your fight has been added to the fight thread. The rerun might not show up until tomarrow, because I have to go to work in a few hours.
sloisel 08-08-05, 03:22 PM	Is there an official ruling on this? Please see [knockdown-improved-trip cheese neutering link]. Bummer! I was going to cheese that. Sebastien Loisel
Altaris13 08-08-05, 03:36 PM	Bummer! I was going to cheese that. Sebastien Loisel LOL~ Yeah, me too! :D But really, I agree with the rest of people's comments. If using an attack action to make the trip, then you get the free attack if the trip was successful. But no free attack AFTER a free trip because of a knockdown. @Cat & Council: Is this how you see it? This is how I'm going to run my fight, unless I hear otherwise in the next couple of hours. It doesn't change the tactics much, and I really want to be fair to both parties.
Sindorin 08-08-05, 03:51 PM	The Knockdown feat allows the trip check, which if successful WOULD allow the free attack if you have Improved Trip. Essentially it is two attacks for one. It's a great combo, but I don't think it should be "core" just because it is in the "SRD". The Complete Divine and Psionics Handbook do NOT say "Core Rulebook 3.5" on them... or do they???? I would run the fight using correct rules for both knockdown and improved trip. The gladiator would get the follow up attack.
Maraxus 08-08-05, 03:59 PM	Hi, I have two questions about the rules: 1. Reselling items. If I buy an item now and later don't want it anymore, can I sell it, to get my money back? How much of the value do I get? 2. Trapmaking: Of cause, you can't carry a portable pit in your backpack, but what about other items? Can you craft bear-traps or something and then place them somewhere in the arena?
Prince FyreDragon 08-08-05, 03:59 PM	The Knockdown feat allows the trip check, which if successful WOULD allow the free attack if you have Improved Trip. Essentially it is two attacks for one. It's a great combo, but I don't think it should be "core" just because it is in the "SRD". The Complete Divine and Psionics Handbook do NOT say "Core Rulebook 3.5" on them... or do they???? I would run the fight using correct rules for both knockdown and improved trip. The gladiator would get the follow up attack. I, too, would allow this combo in a game....by the RAW, it works. And as far as it being core or not.....Psionics has been around since AD&D days....lots of people consider the XPH core even if it is not classified that way by WotC....probably the reason it is part of the SRD. And the Divine entries in the SRD, to my knowledge, are not from Complete Divine, but rather from Deities & Demigods, as most of them appear to be for gods and demigods. Technically, rules from the Epic Handbook are not core either, but they are also in the SRD.
Sindorin 08-08-05, 04:06 PM	Of course... I was just commenting on how the SRD (whatever unofficial version we tend to look at :embarrass ) sometimes leaves certain things out (Like the Red Wizard... one of which I will be making in a couple weeks when I will have more time for this and my campaign).
Prince FyreDragon 08-08-05, 04:15 PM	Of course... I was just commenting on how the SRD (whatever unofficial version we tend to look at :embarrass ) sometimes leaves certain things out (Like the Red Wizard... one of which I will be making in a couple weeks when I will have more time for this and my campaign). Actually, it is the WotC SRD that leaves the Red Wizard out, along with things like the Githyanki, Githzerai and others. Dunno why they do that....it's almost like they don't want to acknowledge their own material LOL.
Vathelokai 08-08-05, 04:19 PM	All the things in the SRD are open licence, and thus everyone can use them. The red wizard is trademarked into the Forgotten relms stuff, which is not open source. I'm not sure why the gith-whathaveyou are not open licence, but I suspect they were copywrighted into Spelljammer and that legal knot hasn't been unraveled yet.
KerlanRayne 08-08-05, 04:23 PM	I, too, would allow this combo in a game....by the RAW, it works.Did you see my comment on this? Doesn't seem to work by RAW to me. KerlanRayne
Altaris13 08-08-05, 04:27 PM	@Sindorin: That's just the thing. I want to run the fight using the "correct rules." And the "correct rules" state that you "get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt." So if you don't use an attack action to make the trip, you don't get a free attack. At least, that is how I interpret it.
Aramil Dunskar 08-08-05, 04:40 PM	Hey Aramil, good to see you again! I have still two of your characters on my disk. Do you want me to put them up again? Here they are: Aramil Belha’doon (Aramil Dunskar) [Power: 828 (828); 0 won, 2 lost] Grakk Mightyfist (Aramil Dunskar) [Power: 1980 (990); 6 won, 5 lost] Just put up Grakk to the roster, Aramil wasn't really a smashing success as I hoped he would be, I think up another character idea soon enough. ;)
Sindorin 08-08-05, 04:41 PM	@Sindorin: That's just the thing. I want to run the fight using the "correct rules." And the "correct rules" state that you "get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt." So if you don't use an attack action to make the trip, you don't get a free attack. At least, that is how I interpret it. Knockdown: Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee, you make a trip attack as a free action against the same target. I would assume the person has to attack the other person in order to use Knockdown. As a free action it turns to a trip. The bolded part of your post is meant for those who say your attack would be used for the trip, empasizing that the attack is free. Oh well, you asked for Cat or Elders' opinions, and I have pitlorded a fight or two here where a gladiator was attacked, knocked down, and attacked again, and no one complained or said that I was in error. Just throwing in 2cp.
NiQil 08-08-05, 04:45 PM	Prince FyreDragon. Just wanted y'all to know that due to a technical issue with WotC (they couldn't tell me what was wrong), I abandoned my old logon, and created this new one. So, I am back to square one for characters, since I can't access the old ones....but on the bright side...I get to build new characters LOL
michael_noah 08-08-05, 04:49 PM	You could easily keep your old characters if you would like. I'm guessing the Elders wouldn't have a problem with it. You could just "Quote" them, then copy to a post with your new logon.
NiQil 08-08-05, 04:51 PM	You could easily keep your old characters if you would like. I'm guessing the Elders wouldn't have a problem with it. You could just "Quote" them, then copy to a post with your new logon. That's not a bad idea.....I didn't think of that....would save a lot of work. Cat and/or the nearest Elder....would this be acceptable? Edit: Also, can I keep the credit I earned this week for the story I wrote for the battle Erithmu ran?
Luni 08-08-05, 05:04 PM	Actually, it is the WotC SRD that leaves the Red Wizard out, along with things like the Githyanki, Githzerai and others. Dunno why they do that....it's almost like they don't want to acknowledge their own material LOL. It is called Intellectual Property. They can say they created the Githyanki, the displacer beast, the Mind Flayer. They can't say the created dwarves, elves, trolls or giants.
sloisel 08-08-05, 05:21 PM	...I have pitlorded a fight or two here where a gladiator was attacked, knocked down, and attacked again, and no one complained or said that I was in error. Just throwing in 2cp. Uh, I'd like that to be disambiguated one way or the other, because I'd be unhappy if other people were pulling that off and I wasn't even though my character's built along that vein. Sebastien Loisel
Maraxus 08-08-05, 05:29 PM	So, if nobody wants to answer my questions, could you tell me, where to post them, if I want answers? And then: NiQil, I wanted to post my second character in post #400. And then you reserve 4 posts at once. Shame on you. ;)
NiQil 08-08-05, 05:36 PM	So, if nobody wants to answer my questions, could you tell me, where to post them, if I want answers? And then: NiQil, I wanted to post my second character in post #400. And then you reserve 4 posts at once. Shame on you. ;) Heh, don't blame me, blame the boards. If not for them, I wouldn't have had to abandon my old logon...was having all kinds of boards errors. But they all went away with a new logon....<shrug> don't ask me why.... But look at it this way....at least by me getting to take your slot position on the boards, I still get to keep my characters....so you still get to beat them up LOL.
sloisel 08-08-05, 05:37 PM	1. Reselling items. If I buy an item now and later don't want it anymore, can I sell it, to get my money back? How much of the value do I get? I resell stuff at half-price. I remember this rule from several years ago, and I don't know where (or even if) it's written now. Sebastien Loisel
Zerone 08-08-05, 05:56 PM	Actually, it is the WotC SRD that leaves the Red Wizard out, along with things like the Githyanki, Githzerai and others. Dunno why they do that....it's almost like they don't want to acknowledge their own material LOL. It's part of a different setting, like the Forgotten Realms, not Greyhawk... *•. Z
NiQil 08-08-05, 06:02 PM	I resell stuff at half-price. I remember this rule from several years ago, and I don't know where (or even if) it's written now. Sebastien Loisel SELLING LOOT In general, a character can sell something for half its listed price. Trade goods are the exception to the half-price rule. A trade good, in this sense, is a valuable good that can be easily exchanged almost as if it were cash itself. Emphasis mine. I believe this is what you are referring to, and I believe this is the rule in Gladius as well.
Altaris13 08-08-05, 06:03 PM	I would assume the person has to attack the other person in order to use Knockdown. As a free action it turns to a trip. The bolded part of your post is meant for those who say your attack would be used for the trip, empasizing that the attack is free. Oh well, you asked for Cat or Elders' opinions, and I have pitlorded a fight or two here where a gladiator was attacked, knocked down, and attacked again, and no one complained or said that I was in error. Just throwing in 2cp. And I appreciate your input, or I wouldn't have asked. :D And I wasn't sure of my interpretation, which is also why I asked. It just seems like a lot for a 3rd level character to pull off. Attack, free trip (which is an attack,) and then attack again? Yeesh... Besides, you may attack to use knockdown, but you do not use the attack action specifically to do the trip.
NiQil 08-08-05, 06:12 PM	And I appreciate your input, or I wouldn't have asked. :D And I wasn't sure of my interpretation, which is also why I asked. It just seems like a lot for a 3rd level character to pull off. Attack, free trip (which is an attack,) and then attack again? Yeesh... Besides, you may attack to use knockdown, but you do not use the attack action specifically to do the trip. Actually, considering it costs 2 feats to do this with no AoO, I think it is fairly viable, since at 3rd level, most characters will only have 2-3 feats. It is quite powerful, but it also straps the character from being able to do much of anything else. And I don't necessarily think it is all that much more powerful than power attack>cleave or point black shot>rapid shot. Your mileage may vary.
sloisel 08-08-05, 06:19 PM	Actually, considering it costs 2 feats to do this with no AoO [...] 3 feats. Improved trip requires combat expertise.
Altaris13 08-08-05, 06:29 PM	3 feats. Improved trip requires combat expertise. Yep, and Knockdown requires IT. @NightQuill: ;) Actually, if all you have to do is 10 points of damage to get a free trip followed by another free attack, your mileage is going to go FAR. You are basically getting 3 attack actions that only someone with TWF can get at level 6, and three levels earlier. Plus, you are getting MORE damage potential because your opponent is going to be Prone, with a -4 to AC vs Melee and provoking AoO just to stand up. EDIT: Only someone who does not have natural attacks Example: ME vs ORC ME does 10 points vs ORC, immediately Trips ORC, Does more damage. ORC tries to stand up, provokes AoO. ME does 10 points vs ORC, immediately Trips ORC, does more damage. ME takes normal attack to do MORE damage to ORC. ORC tries to stand up, provokes AoO. ME does 10 points vs ORC, immediately Trips ORC, does more damage. ME takes normal attack to do MORE damage to ORC. ORC tries to stand up, provokes AoO. ME does 10 points vs ORC, immediately Trips ORC, does more damage. ME takes normal attack to do MORE damage to ORC. So on and so on. That is flawed even in TT games dealing with groups. Toss a Rogue into the mix and good grief!!! Now, my issue is specifically with the part of the Improved Trip feat that says: as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt You are not using your attack for the trip attempt, you are using it to do damage WITH AN ADDED BENEFIT of knocking your enemy prone. I see the feat as allowing you to damage your opponent twice, not three times. Initial Attack followed up with an AoO, not Attack plus Free Attack plus AoO. Anyhow, I'm going home to run this fight now. Work is over!!! :D
NiQil 08-08-05, 06:37 PM	Yep, and Knockdown requires IT. @NightQuill: ;) Actually, if all you have to do is 10 points of damage to get a free trip followed by another free attack, your mileage is going to go FAR. You are basically getting 3 attack actions that only someone with TWF can get at level 6, and three levels earlier. Plus, you are getting MORE damage potential because your opponent is going to be Prone, with a -4 to AC vs Melee and provoking AoO just to stand up. EDIT: Only someone who does not have natural attacks Example: ME vs ORC ME does 10 points vs ORC, immediately Trips ORC, Does more damage. ORC tries to stand up, provokes AoO. ME does 10 points vs ORC, immediately Trips ORC, does more damage. ME takes normal attack to do MORE damage to ORC. ORC tries to stand up, provokes AoO. ME does 10 points vs ORC, immediately Trips ORC, does more damage. ME takes normal attack to do MORE damage to ORC. ORC tries to stand up, provokes AoO. ME does 10 points vs ORC, immediately Trips ORC, does more damage. ME takes normal attack to do MORE damage to ORC. So on and so on. That is flawed even in TT games dealing with groups. Toss a Rogue into the mix and good grief!!! Now, my issue is specifically with the part of the Improved Trip feat that says: You are not using your attack for the trip attempt, you are using it to do damage WITH AN ADDED BENEFIT of knocking your enemy prone. I see the feat as allowing you to damage your opponent twice, not three times. Initial Attack followed up with an AoO, not Attack plus Free Attack plus AoO. Anyhow, I'm going home to run this fight now. Work is over!!! :D The more I think about this, the more I am starting to agree with you....if you think about it in a logical sort of way (not to say there is logic in D&D LOL), how do you trip someone that has been knocked down?
sloisel 08-08-05, 06:38 PM	Example: ME vs ORC ME does 10 points vs ORC, immediately Trips ORC, Does more damage. ORC tries to stand up, provokes AoO. ME does 10 points vs ORC, immediately Trips ORC, does more damage. ME takes normal attack to do MORE damage to ORC. Why are you going easy on the orc? Round 1: Hit orc, 15 damage, automatic trip succeeds, bonus attack, 15 damage, automatic trip granted! (it doesn't say you can't trip a prone opponent!), trip succeeds, bonus attack, 15 damage, automatic trip succeeds, bonus attack, etc... Why would you stop after your first bonus attack in round 1? Sebastien Loisel
Pitlords 08-08-05, 06:41 PM	This has been clarified by the sage. Your AoO takes place before the target stood up so you cannot retrip it on the AoO. You also cannot trip an already prone target.
Luni 08-08-05, 06:41 PM	Why are you going easy on the orc? Round 1: Hit orc, 15 damage, automatic trip succeeds, bonus attack, 15 damage, automatic trip granted! (it doesn't say you can't trip a prone opponent!), trip succeeds, bonus attack, 15 damage, automatic trip succeeds, bonus attack, etc... Why would you stop after your first bonus attack in round 1? Sebastien Loisel Common sense?
NiQil 08-08-05, 06:49 PM	There's our emperor with the final answer...so to borrow a line from the Soup Nazi....for whomever has that character.... "No cheese for you!" LOL
sloisel 08-08-05, 06:54 PM	This has been clarified by the sage. Your AoO takes place before the target stood up so you cannot retrip it on the AoO. You also cannot trip an already prone target. Damn those reasonable people. That doesn't say anything about the original knockdown->trip->bonus attack thing though. Sebastien Loisel
Pitlords 08-08-05, 07:04 PM	Hi, I have two questions about the rules: 1. Reselling items. If I buy an item now and later don't want it anymore, can I sell it, to get my money back? How much of the value do I get? 2. Trapmaking: Of cause, you can't carry a portable pit in your backpack, but what about other items? Can you craft bear-traps or something and then place them somewhere in the arena? 1) Half price. 2) No prebuffs that affect the arena.
Altaris13 08-08-05, 07:40 PM	Damn those reasonable people. That doesn't say anything about the original knockdown->trip->bonus attack thing though. Sebastien Loisel No, it doesn't... :weep: EDIT: Nevermind. See here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6907932&postcount=208) Wow... I know the next feat that Aeryn is getting. I disagree (obviously) with the ruling. (Reasons stated previously.)
Mind Rogue 08-08-05, 07:48 PM	1) Half price. 2) No prebuffs that affect the arena. I don't think he's planning on pre-buffing the arena, but rather if he can make a trap and then somehow set it up once the fight starts... without resorting to caltrops.
sloisel 08-08-05, 07:58 PM	I don't think he's planning on pre-buffing the arena, but rather if he can make a trap and then somehow set it up once the fight starts... without resorting to caltrops. The only trap rules I know about are the rules in DMG68-76. Those traps are extremely nonportable and also expensive. Even if they were portable, they'd be hard to use since they take on average 1 minute to reset (paraphrasing from DMG.) Sebastien Loisel
SoulLord 08-08-05, 08:36 PM	knockdown was first introduced in sword and fist. heres the errata for it and the link to the errata file http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/snferratav2.zip use of this feat cannot be combined with improved trip to generate an extra attack, and succesful use of this feat does not grant an extra attack through the cleave or great cleave feats
Gonbow 08-08-05, 10:14 PM	If you have at least 5 ranks, you can use certain skills to earn extra money. These skills are Sleight of Hand, all Perform skills, all Profession skills, and some Craft skillsx. In order to benefit from them, your character must be participating in an Arena Fight. You may not be engaged in any other free activity that week, like teaching a trick to an animal, and you must write it into the headline (like "Earning money with Sleight of Hand"). Finally, you may only use one skill at a time to earn money! For Quests and Campaigns, it is up to the Questlord/Campaignlord to decide: while you should have problems crafting a weapon on a Quest or going pickpocketing in the wilderness, you might be able to perform in a tavern while in a village. You earn (Take10+skill modifier)*ECL gold pieces in a week. The Pitlord mentions this extra income at the bottom of the fight along with the fight rewards, and adds them together. x: all Craft skills except Craft armorsmithing, weaponsmithing, bowmaking, poisonmaking, and alchemy. These skills already have a function in the CoCo (see below). What about Perform (Dance)? It's a requirement for a prestige class, doesn't that count as a 'function'? Also, in the FAQ on Cohorts, the Mephit (all types) link points at monsters T through Z, not M to N as it should. And speaking of Mephits.. is the alterable morphic quality of the Arena's enviroment enough to trigger the fast healing of say, an Air Mephit, which requires moving air? Or is the air assumed to be stagnant because moving air gives the Mephit a significant advantage? EDIT: Tricky qoute vrs quote!
SodaGuy 08-08-05, 11:00 PM	For the aging effects it says: 1. At middle age, -1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha. 2. At old age, -2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha. 3. At venerable age, -3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha. Do those stack? Making a guy of venerable age -6 str, dex, con; +3 int, wis, cha. If so, that passage is poorly worded.
TelinArtho 08-08-05, 11:04 PM	yes they do stack...
nightbanegod 08-09-05, 12:28 AM	coming soon... the real horseman of the apocalypse WAR!!!!
NiQil 08-09-05, 01:20 AM	coming soon... the real horseman of the apocalypse WAR!!!! Ummmm...yeah. See my sig. Iffn you are plannin on makin a similarly-named character, you'll need to change the name so as not to confuse the two.
Altaris13 08-09-05, 01:36 AM	Wowser... And so my Pitlord Virginity is no more. That was long and tiring... 8pm to 1:30am? Yick... :D But I liked it. I hope I ran tactics well, and I hope it reads easily enough.
King Uther 08-09-05, 01:45 AM	@Questees of mine I was moving a lot today and been busy. Sorry to be behind. I will take care of business. Expect a load of updates. Everything will be finished.
McJarvis 08-09-05, 01:51 AM	Wowser... And so my Pitlord Virginity is no more. That was long and tiring... 8pm to 1:30am? Yick... I totally get what you mean. Seems like my fights always take me a good three hours or so...maybe more if I mess it up. I'm hoping once I get a better handle on it it'll take less time.(for instance: Once I get encyclopedic knowledge of every facet of the game I won't have to use my books as fans anymore ;) ) It's amazing how long I optimized builds without really knowing the nitty-gritty mechanics of the game :-O
King Uther 08-09-05, 02:04 AM	Truth be told you never truly optimize before knowing as much about the rules as possible. I mean, you can have the best character bild possible but not be as good as an average character played by a better player.
McJarvis 08-09-05, 02:12 AM	Truth be told you never truly optimize before knowing as much about the rules as possible. I mean, you can have the best character bild possible but not be as good as an average character played by a better player. As I see it now, there is optimization theory, and there is optimization practice. The stuff I did over at the CO board was theory: this board is more application. It's the difference between learning Real Analysis and Differential Equations: both are useful, but one is more profitable in the real world :) I do tend to enjoy the theory more, but I REALLY like being challenged.(hey- I'm a mathematician. I like hard tedious work) Hence why I'm here at all. EDIT: Suddenly I can hear the echoes of all the Math Vs Physics arguements I've had to endure throughout my entire education....blah
McJarvis 08-09-05, 02:57 AM	..
Vathelokai 08-09-05, 03:04 AM	Ummmm...yeah. See my sig. Iffn you are plannin on makin a similarly-named character, you'll need to change the name so as not to confuse the two. So Nightbanegod, Niquil, and Prince Fyredragon are all horsemen? You guys should start your own guild!
Maraxus 08-09-05, 03:38 AM	Mind Rogue had the right idea. :) ... However, I agree, that this is to complicated, since there is no "portable" option in the trapmaking-rules and coco is no place for houserules. ...It's just that my next character, Zassl whants to get something out of his racial bonus since the first ... wait, when the craft(armorsmithing)-skill allows you to reduce the cost of items by crafting them yourself, shouldn't profession(miner) reduce it by the other half through digging for my own raw-materials? :D Never mind.
sloisel 08-09-05, 07:21 AM	Gang Lion, The Holy See west of Root Canal, spiritual leader of the Gang Green wood elf tribe, successor to his Holiness the Inflamed Ape Endix, who died in great pain. He's pretty much done, but I might modify him some more before the pairings. Let me know if you find an error or if my puns are giving you an ulcer. Sebastien Loisel
Vathelokai 08-09-05, 07:33 AM	@GangLion[sloisel]: It all looks good. My only question is, why spell penetration? Not many things 'round these parts have Spell resistance. And dispel magic is the only caster lv. check I can think of off the top of my head.
sloisel 08-09-05, 07:48 AM	@GangLion[sloisel]: It all looks good. My only question is, why spell penetration? Not many things 'round these parts have Spell resistance. And dispel magic is the only caster lv. check I can think of off the top of my head. I'm not sure I'm keeping those two feats -- I might change them before pairings. However, when playing a nonhuman race, and a class without bonus feats, you have a budget of 7 feats for the whole career of a character, so you have to plan accordingly. I've found with a 3.0 sorceror that spell penetration was indispensable at levels 10+. At ECL 5-6 in the arena, we're not unlikely to meet creatures with SR (for instance pixies.) Sebastien Loisel
Vathelokai 08-09-05, 07:56 AM	You wouldn't happen to know, off the top of your head, how much coins weigh? I can't find it in the SRD, and I don't own any 3rd ed books.
Maraxus 08-09-05, 08:10 AM	Standart coin weigth one third of an ounce. Zassl (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6912430#post6912430) enters the ring. Do you like him? ;) If you see any errors please tell me. :) Loisel: Looks good. And this is evil: The cleric is the better caster between cleric and sorcerer (4 spell-levels in a fight, instead of 2), has this domains, more hit points, better fighting power ... But wait untill we are level 18, then Zassl will beat you up with his mighty 9th level spells. (D&D has a strange idea of balancing...)
Vathelokai 08-09-05, 08:22 AM	Since he is small size I think he has to use a lt. xbow. He only has 18 skill pts., so you would have to ditch the cross class skills, or a sorcerer skill. You kneed a spells known list. Back to the coins question; 48 coins to the pound? That dosn't sound right. I remember it being a round number, like 10 or 50 or 100? *edit* Found a reference. It's 50 coins to the pound.
Maraxus 08-09-05, 08:52 AM	Not a light Xbow, but a heavy for his size, you are right. Spells known: Well, under spells per day there was a list of spells and I just entered the spells known there. I hope, it is better understandable, now. Skill points: No, they work. I have 24 skill points. I had an error in the Int-mod. It should be +2, since my intelligence is 14.
Altaris13 08-09-05, 09:06 AM	I totally get what you mean. Seems like my fights always take me a good three hours or so...maybe more if I mess it up. I'm hoping once I get a better handle on it it'll take less time.(for instance: Once I get encyclopedic knowledge of every facet of the game I won't have to use my books as fans anymore ;) ) It's amazing how long I optimized builds without really knowing the nitty-gritty mechanics of the game :-O Pretty much the same here. I spent a lot of time checking & rechecking the rules and my previous Rounds and referring to Tactics & character sheets, plus I had to print & map out the movement or I would've gone insanse. :P I'm exhausted this morning, so I definately want to run fights on the weekends at the latest from now on.
Vathelokai 08-09-05, 09:16 AM	about maps: A trick I've been using is to open the arena map in microsoftsucks Paint. Then just draw letters on the map and use the line-draw fuction to check for cover. It works well for me.
Gonbow 08-09-05, 09:47 AM	Mind Rogue had the right idea. :) ... However, I agree, that this is to complicated, since there is no "portable" option in the trapmaking-rules and coco is no place for houserules. ...It's just that my next character, Zassl whants to get something out of his racial bonus since the first ... wait, when the craft(armorsmithing)-skill allows you to reduce the cost of items by crafting them yourself, shouldn't profession(miner) reduce it by the other half through digging for my own raw-materials? :D Never mind. Given you can use any non 'functional' craft skill to make gold now.. That +1 modifier gives you 3 gold a week at ECL 3! Joyous day. ;) It really is actually, as Santos is now a Iron Chef and my new character, Yasha Tankou (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6914071) is busily making torture devices in her spare time. Roleplaying and min-maxing, together at last!
sloisel 08-09-05, 09:55 AM	But wait untill we are level 18, then Zassl will beat you up with his mighty 9th level spells. (D&D has a strange idea of balancing...) Could be, but I just switched out the Travel domain for the Death domain, which gives me Wail of the Banshee... Edit: And now I've replaced death with strength. You just can't catch me! haha! Sebastien Loisel
NiQil 08-09-05, 11:05 AM	So Nightbanegod, Niquil, and Prince Fyredragon are all horsemen? You guys should start your own guild! Well, if ya wanna get techical (and I do, LOL), me and Prince are the same person, and I already have all Four Horsemen as part of my characters. My own little fighter stable....that apparantly needs to be blown up with an ACME rocket LOL.
Maraxus 08-09-05, 12:24 PM	@Gonbow, about Yasha Tankou: The one thing I found are the feats: You did not take exotic weapon prof. (spiked chain), and in the fighter sblock, it sais your fighter feat would be Weapon focus (which it obviously is not, under feats it lists power attack).
Gonbow 08-09-05, 12:48 PM	@Gonbow, about Yasha Tankou: The one thing I found are the feats: You did not take exotic weapon prof. (spiked chain), and in the fighter sblock, it sais your fighter feat would be Weapon focus (which it obviously is not, under feats it lists power attack). The feats have done a little shuffling.. Originally I had Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Improved Sunder and Weapon Focus: Spiked Chain. But I didn't have Power Attack, the requirement for Improved Sunder. So I switched Sunder to Power Attack, making it the fighter feat, and dropped weapon focus for Wild Talent. Then I realized I didn't have exotic weapon proficiency so I shuffled them around again. Now I need to update the fighter sblock to accurately state which feat I took as the fighter feat, though it is listed in the feat section. Thanks for the heads up about the sblock Maraxus.
McJarvis 08-09-05, 12:49 PM	Clarification: Could someone more informed then I tell me exactly what the benifits of Synsthete is? The power description seems to only infer in-game bonuses of +4 to spot/listen(depending on which is active) if you have your ears/eyes available, able to overcome blindness/deafness if you are affected by it. Some contenders have been talking about "seeing sound waves" or something to detect invis and I just don't see it in the description. All I see is the ability to use listen checks even if you're deafened, not suddenly have radar vision.(is even says there are no benifits if you have your ears intact) I think? Maybe I'm just tired... EDIT: the kind of clarification I would like is situational. Does it allow for sight in darkness? etc, etc *bump*
SoulLord 08-09-05, 01:07 PM	from the srd synesthete Psionic or magical displacement effects, invisibility effects, illusions, and other similar effects confuse your synesthete senses just as they would your normal senses.
McJarvis 08-09-05, 01:14 PM	from the srd synesthete So the best application a gladiator could hope for against an invisibile opponent would be to get a +4 to listen?
Gonbow 08-09-05, 01:20 PM	So the best application a gladiator could hope for against an invisibile opponent would be to get a +4 to listen? That's correct. You could also buy some bags of flour and use them as improvised grenade weapons; much cheaper and heavier than a tattoo of syn. Speaking of tattoos, how does a Tattoo of Energy Retort function? Upon manifesting this power, you choose cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. You weave a field of potential energy of the chosen type around your body. The first successful attack made against you in each round during the power’s duration prompts a response from the field without any effort on your part. The attack may be physical, the effect of a power, or the effect of a spell (including spell-like, supernatural, and extraordinary abilities). An “ectoburst” discharges from the field, targeting the source of the attack and dealing 4d6 points of damage of the chosen energy type. To be affected, a target must be within close range, you must have line of sight and line of effect to it, and you must be able to identify the source of the attack. The ectoburst is a ranged touch attack made using your base attack bonus plus your key ability modifier for your manifesting class. Emphasis mine, how is this determined? My gut says to use the lowest possible ability score required to manifest a 3rd level power; 13, combined with the BAB of a level 5 manifester; +2. Which puts it at a +3. Which sucks ass for a tattoo that costs 1,500; or am I wrong?
NiQil 08-09-05, 01:57 PM	Does a druid who is multiclassed to another class (we'll use fighter as an example) that provides them with armor proficiencies still get hit with penalties if they are wearing metal armor? Am I correct in assuming that regardless of what they are proficient with, druids still cannot wear metal armor?
sloisel 08-09-05, 02:00 PM	Emphasis mine, how is this determined? My gut says to use the lowest possible ability score required to manifest a 3rd level power; 13, combined with the BAB of a level 5 manifester; +2. Which puts it at a +3. Which sucks ass for a tattoo that costs 1,500; or am I wrong? Same question for crawling tattoos: Treat it as a Fine construct that has AC 18, 10 hit points, a hardness of 5, speed 30 feet, and a bonus on attack rolls equal to the wearer’s manifester level + his key ability modifier. @McJarvis: you can also use spot to detect invisible people. Check out http://d20srd.org/srd/skills/spot.htm. The rules giving a radius of error on listen checks is a coliseum house rule. The specific reference on pinpointing invisible people with spot is http://d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#spot. I know these details because long ago in a real game some jerk rogue fought my improved invisibled sorceror. Sebastien Loisel
Gonbow 08-09-05, 02:28 PM	Does a druid who is multiclassed to another class (we'll use fighter as an example) that provides them with armor proficiencies still get hit with penalties if they are wearing metal armor? Am I correct in assuming that regardless of what they are proficient with, druids still cannot wear metal armor? They cannot wear metal armor and use the various druid abilities affected by that prohibition, correct. Dragonhide, among other materials, makes for good alternatives. A druid/fighter with alot of gold to spend can get heavy armor that is not metal easily enough.
xanadu 08-09-05, 02:55 PM	That's correct. You could also buy some bags of flour and use them as improvised grenade weapons; much cheaper and heavier than a tattoo of syn. Speaking of tattoos, how does a Tattoo of Energy Retort function? Emphasis mine, how is this determined? My gut says to use the lowest possible ability score required to manifest a 3rd level power; 13, combined with the BAB of a level 5 manifester; +2. Which puts it at a +3. Which sucks ass for a tattoo that costs 1,500; or am I wrong? Your BAB + minimum manifester modifier [+1 in this case] I would think. Its a touch attack if that makes you feel better. Yep 1500 GP, probably not worth it.
Luni 08-09-05, 03:04 PM	They cannot wear metal armor and use the various druid abilities affected by that prohibition, correct. Dragonhide, among other materials, makes for good alternatives. A druid/fighter with alot of gold to spend can get heavy armor that is not metal easily enough. Look at Talari. A Dragonhide Breastplate, Masterwork only costs 700 gp I think.
Altaris13 08-09-05, 05:05 PM	:b: :b: :b: Mini (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6862265&postcount=387) is here to kill pesky bigguns!!! :devil: :fight!: :mage: Please review and comment on her.
Vathelokai 08-09-05, 05:06 PM	@McJarvis: The real benifit to Synesthete is that if you get hit by blindness/deafness you are not completely helpless for the rest of the fight. I consider equipment like this a precaution. They don't get used very much, but they stop people from using powerfull stuff on you, because they know that you will get over it in one round.
TelinArtho 08-09-05, 05:15 PM	@Altaris - the only thing that catches me right off the bat is the +3 armor bonus you list under AC - Mini has no armor... Also, The cloak of resistance weighs 1 pound, so you are even closer to your medium encumbrance... And a 4 strength is a -3 not a -4 adjustment.
Maraxus 08-09-05, 05:47 PM	@Altaris: I have to add, that your Crossbow has the wrong damage, too (I made the same mistake :)). If it's a small light crossbow, it does only 1d6. In character - A message from Zassl: Minesbiggarinyers, you have already left behind the evilness the society wants to drive us into. On your own, you have realized, that this is not our true nature. Join the "Kobolds' path into the light."- Comunity now. No longer stand inactive about our sisters and brothers who are hated for their evilness and evil for the hate against them. Join us and help us end this. We respect Phrenics, too. PS: Good luck for your fights, you can probably get some massive psi with this charisma but 6 hitpoints are 6 hit points.
Altaris13 08-09-05, 06:01 PM	@Telin! D'oh! :D @Maraxis: Yeah, I have the right damage on paper & forgot to change it from the default character sheet. Will fix. Thanks!!! EDIT: Fixed! Also, I had forgot the +1 resistance bonus on my saves. :eek: :D
Maraxus 08-09-05, 06:11 PM	NiQil (about Caspian and Kronos): Orisons count as 0 spell levels, not 1/2 like most of the time.
NiQil 08-09-05, 06:25 PM	NiQil (about Caspian and Kronos): Orisons count as 0 spell levels, not 1/2 like most of the time. Doh! Good catch. Didn't even realize I had put them in there. Ouch...so long buffs....but on the bright side I can stabalize myself 4 times with each character now....Cure Minor Wounds will pwn u aII LOL
sloisel 08-09-05, 08:39 PM	Join the "Kobolds' path into the light." My current character, Son of Buttmunch, is the son of the very first Arena kobold, a druid named Buttmunch. Cheers, Sebastien Loisel
King Uther 08-09-05, 08:47 PM	The Avatar of Life (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6884101&postcount=392) is ready to defend against the rising of the Harvester.
sloisel 08-09-05, 08:47 PM	Mini is here to kill pesky bigguns!!! Wow, that is one flimsy gladiator. This may be the least of your problems, but why do you take wild talent? As a wilder, you have access to psionic talent, which is a much better feat. http://d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psionicTalent Sebastien Loisel
nightbanegod 08-09-05, 10:51 PM	War (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6910679&postcount=402) please check this character for flaws
GuardianAngel 08-09-05, 11:23 PM	Hey all, trying to learn about these thing called Psionics??? :confused: ??? First Question, If I were to take a Psionic Race such as the Dromites. Could I take Psionic Feats? Second Question, If I were said Dromite and I used it's Energy-ray (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicPowersDtoF.html#energy-ray), would I be able to Augment it with the Bonus 1 power point that it gets because it is Psionic? Third Question, Say I bought a Weapon, Deep Crystal Dagger and had a power point reserve of 2. Like how the Half-Gaint gets, My total Power Point reserve would be 2, useing the 1/3 rule can I not charge my Deep Crystal Dagger? Forth Question, Could a Xeph Psion take the Wild Talent Feat and Psionic Talent Feat to gain +4 power points? Or becuase he is a Psionic Creature he can't take this feat? Last Question, the Psionic Weapon feat says you charge your melee weapon. Now if I use that melee weapon as range. Such as throwing said dagger from above. Do I still get the +2d6 Dmg? Thanks for your info on these. Just reading the SRD about Psionic's and all these questions loop holes came into mind :evillaugh :angel: Please Reply I am going to post this in the Fights and in the Psionic Part of WOTC.
McJarvis 08-09-05, 11:27 PM	Hey all, trying to learn about these thing called Psionics??? :confused: ??? First Question, If I were to take a Psionic Race such as the Dromites. Could I take Psionic Feats? Yup! Second Question, If I were said Dromite and I used it's Energy-ray (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicPowersDtoF.html#energy-ray), would I be able to Augment it with the Bonus 1 power point that it gets because it is Psionic? Psi-like abilities are assumed to be augmented all the way up to thier full capacity. So if you're a 10hd dromite, you have a 5d6 energy ray.(you couldn't augment it further if you wanted to) And the rest of the questions I'm not quite sure on :)
Gonbow 08-09-05, 11:29 PM	Hey all, trying to learn about these thing called Psionics??? :confused: ??? First Question, If I were to take a Psionic Race such as the Dromites. Could I take Psionic Feats? Second Question, If I were said Dromite and I used it's Energy-ray (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicPowersDtoF.html#energy-ray), would I be able to Augment it with the Bonus 1 power point that it gets because it is Psionic? Third Question, Say I bought a Weapon, Deep Crystal Dagger and had a power point reserve of 2. Like how the Half-Gaint gets, My total Power Point reserve would be 2, useing the 1/3 rule can I not charge my Deep Crystal Dagger? Forth Question, Could a Xeph Psion take the Wild Talent Feat and Psionic Talent Feat to gain +4 power points? Or becuase he is a Psionic Creature he can't take this feat? Last Question, the Psionic Weapon feat says you charge your melee weapon. Now if I use that melee weapon as range. Such as throwing said dagger from above. Do I still get the +2d6 Dmg? Thanks for your info on these. Just reading the SRD about Psionic's and all these questions loop holes came into mind :evillaugh :angel: Please Reply I am going to post this in the Fights and in the Psionic Part of WOTC. One: Yes. Two: I'm not sure, this has occured to me as well and I haven't seen any suggestions one way or the other. Three: If you only have 2 power points total, you only have 1 available for arena fights, thus you cannot charge your dagger. However, in quests and campaigns, you can go hog wild. Four: He can take either or both of them, yes. Five: No. You need psionic shot to expend your focus to boost any ranged attack. (Energy rays, scroching missiles, daggers, arrows...)
GuardianAngel 08-09-05, 11:37 PM	PSIONIC WEAPON [PSIONIC] You can charge your melee weapon with additional damage potential. Prerequisite: Str 13. Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. Your attack with a melee weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of damage. You must decide whether or not to use this feat prior to making an attack. If your attack misses, you still expend your psionic focus. But it says Melee Weapon? Daggers still melee?
GuardianAngel 08-09-05, 11:42 PM	Question about buying Tatto's Whats the rules? can I buy a Tatto of Biofeedback (ML 3) which is my ECL? Also can you buy an Augmented Tatto with a ML of 3?
Luni 08-10-05, 12:34 AM	Elite Array Wood Elf Skeleton Size/Type: Medium Undead Hit Dice: 1d12 (6 hp) Initiative: +8 Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares) Armor Class: 16 (+4 Dex, +2 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 12 Base Attack/Grapple: +0/+3 Attack: Scimitar +3 melee (1d6+3/18-20) or claw +3 melee (1d4+1) or Composite Longbow (Str +3) +5 ranged (1d8+3/x3) Full Attack: Scimitar +3 melee (1d6+3/18-20) or 2 claws +3 melee (1d4+1) or Composite Longbow (Str +3) +4 ranged (1d8+3/x3) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: — Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/bludgeoning, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to cold, undead traits Saves: Fort +0, Ref +4, Will +2 Abilities: Str 17, Dex 18, Con Ø, Int Ø, Wis 10, Cha 1 Feats: Improved Initiative Environment: Temperate forests Organization: Any Challenge Rating: 1 or 1⅓ Treasure: None Alignment: Always neutral evil Advancement: — Level Adjustment: — Does this look right? It uses a Wood Elf Skeleton with a wood elf with 17 Str (15 base +2 racial) and 16 dex (14 base +2 racial). And given a Masterwork Composite Longbow, Mighty +3
xanadu 08-10-05, 12:45 AM	Luni - attack with compaiste bow should be +5 because it is a masterwork skeleton. If we can use elite array on skeletons, the wood elf is a good choice.
Luni 08-10-05, 12:54 AM	I'm not sure if it is worth it though. I can have 3-4 regular Wood Elven Skeletons with 13 str, 15 dex, for the price of 1 elite one. I don't see why we can't use the Elite Array on skeletons.
GuardianAngel 08-10-05, 01:06 AM	Hey all got a new character up with some qustionable things. Here he is. Devon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6921562&postcount=410) 1st. Taking into account that all melee weapons are melee weapons, even if they do have a range. (ie. Dagger, Club, shortspear, so forth) 2nd. Takeing into account that you can pre-buff anything that has a duration long enough for it to last a day. Psychic strike states it lasts until it hits successfully. Those missed attacks don't need to be re focused on. Thats if the above is granted or not, I would like input into these.
Luni 08-10-05, 01:21 AM	You may want to delete [/quote] that is sitting at the end of your character. 3rd As above being Psionicly Focused, Channeling it into the feat Psionic-Weapon and then regaining focus. That isn't true. You expend your focus when you make your attack roll. You miss, you lose your focus and the Psychic weapon is wasted. Psionic Weapon [Psionic] Benefit To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. Your attack with a melee weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of damage. You must decide whether or not to use this feat prior to making an attack. If your attack misses, you still expend your psionic focus.
GuardianAngel 08-10-05, 02:00 AM	yes but what if the attack isn't done yet. Could I expend my focus and the Re-gain my focus? Not makeing the attack roll untill I need to.
Luni 08-10-05, 02:03 AM	You can only spend it when you make your attack roll. The way Psionic Focus works, is that you spend it to get immediate results. You can't buff yourself with psionic focus. You can't hold an attack with Psionic Weapon. When you roll your d20 to see if you hit, you decide whether to spend it on that attack or not.
Gonbow 08-10-05, 02:05 AM	yes but what if the attack isn't done yet. Could I expend my focus and the Re-gain my focus? Not makeing the attack roll untill I need to. Psychic Strike: Charge, holds until successful hit is made, like the vast majority of 'touch' spells. Psionic Weapon/Shot/Fist: Expend as you attack, expended regardless of result of attack. So no, you cant. You expend your focus as you attack, not before or after. These abilities looks similar, but they function very differently.
GuardianAngel 08-10-05, 02:06 AM	You have to be able to be Psionicly Focused as a pre-buff. Second it doesn't say that you have to hit the round you expend your focus Thirdly, what about the Tatto of Augmented Compresion? Do I need credits for this?
Gonbow 08-10-05, 02:13 AM	You have to be able to be Psionicly Focused as a pre-buff. Second it doesn't say that you have to hit the round you expend your focus Thirdly, what about the Tatto of Augmented Compresion? Do I need credits for this? Luni mispoke, you can become Psionically Focused as a pre-buff, unless you have a negative concentration modifier. Yes, it does, I'll repeat the qoute. Psionic Weapon [Psionic] Benefit To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. Your attack with a melee weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of damage. You must decide whether or not to use this feat prior to making an attack. If your attack misses, you still expend your psionic focus. Psionic Weapon/Shot/Fist increase the damage potential of a single attack, as specified in thier text. Any feat/spell/ability that increases multiple attacks uses the plural form, such as Point Blank Shot.
Luni 08-10-05, 02:15 AM	You have to be able to be Psionicly Focused as a pre-buff. I misspoke. You can enter Psionically focused. Thirdly, what about the Tatto of Augmented Compresion? Do I need credits for this? Actually, I'm not sure. The statement from the blackmarket seems to be worded funny to me. You may pay credits to get the right to buy custom single-use expendable items with a higher casterlevel. This only applies to scrolls, tattoos (incl. crawling tattoos), and powerstones. You may pay 1° per 2 CL above the normal limit (max 20). Normally, you can only buy scrolls and powerstones up to your ECL+2, and minimum ML for tattoos. Note that two spells on one scroll still count as two custom items as do several custom powers stored within one powerstone!
GuardianAngel 08-10-05, 02:27 AM	I was reading the SRD and it doesn;t say the action used to use a tattoo if the power used is a swift action. Trying to get a tatto of that +2 will, but want it as the imediate action. @ the whole psionic weapon thing, just trying to get some loop holes. I am the guy that likes to think outside the box :angel: but then try to blow it up from outside of it too. :schemes:
Luni 08-10-05, 02:30 AM	Activation A psionic tattoo produces its effect when touched by its wearer and willed to do so. This activity, called “tapping” the tattoo, is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. A psionic tattoo fades away after use. Activating all Tattoos are standard actions. It is probably better off to just buy a cloak of resistance +1 for 1000 gp instead of multiple tattoos of Empty Mind after every fight
GuardianAngel 08-10-05, 02:35 AM	I like the psionic's but it is too confusing, the whole swift action and such as. Like under the Hammer power it is a swift action that does a 1d8, but you have to do a melee touch attack. Swift being just a notch above free but below move. You can do one swift action, so this means I can manifest a standard action with a range of 30ft. move 25ft. and swift action the hammer?
King Uther 08-10-05, 02:59 AM	Yes. A swift action can be done in the same round as a move and a standard action. It's like a quickened spell.
Gonbow 08-10-05, 03:12 AM	I like the psionic's but it is too confusing, the whole swift action and such as. Like under the Hammer power it is a swift action that does a 1d8, but you have to do a melee touch attack. Swift being just a notch above free but below move. You can do one swift action, so this means I can manifest a standard action with a range of 30ft. move 25ft. and swift action the hammer? Hammer is a very poorly worded touch spell, in essence. You can move, turn it on and attack someone with it all in the same turn; which you can do with any other touch spell. What you can do with it and not with other non-swift things is this; Manifest hammer and make a full attack. A monk/psychic warrior should obviously be able to see the advantages of this. Regardless of the speed of the spell however, you'll need at least a standard action to touch the person for it to go off, so no, you wouldn't be able to manifest an energy ray, move up to someone and hit them with hammer.
KerlanRayne 08-10-05, 04:55 AM	4th The tattoo of Compression (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicPowersAtoC.html#compression) is being augmented to last 1min/level instead of round, and takeing into the account it as to be Manifester Level of 2, It would be 2 mins dur.For this to last 1 min/level you must spend 3 power points, 1 for the power and two to augment it. 3 power points requires a Manifester Level of 3 not 2. KerlanRayne
Vathelokai 08-10-05, 07:41 AM	Some feats have a level requirement, like Leadership (lv 6). If a monster has a lv adjustment, does this fill the requirement? For example, a troll has a lv. adj. of +5, giving it an ECL of 6. Could a troll with one figher lv. take leadership, or is the "lv." here based entirely on hit dice? *edit* Nevermind. I found it. Feat Acquisition and Ability Score Increases: A monster’s total Hit Dice, not its ECL, govern its acquisition of feats and ability score increases.
TelinArtho 08-10-05, 10:19 AM	Quick question: If a character gets a feat at 1st level (for instance Augment Summoning) and later would get that feat for free from a class feature (say for Level 2 of Thaumaturgist), would the character get a "replacement" feat or would the character simply not get any additional benefit from the class feature? (I'm assuming the latter...).
michael_noah 08-10-05, 10:20 AM	Yep, you get hosed.
King Uther 08-10-05, 10:45 AM	@Vath Trolls are not ECL6, they're ECL11 for their racial Hit Dice. And that's with no class levels.
NiQil 08-10-05, 11:05 AM	Quick question: If a character gets a feat at 1st level (for instance Augment Summoning) and later would get that feat for free from a class feature (say for Level 2 of Thaumaturgist), would the character get a "replacement" feat or would the character simply not get any additional benefit from the class feature? (I'm assuming the latter...). Cat and the Elders, from what I have seen, are pretty lenient on letting people swap out feats they have never used and things like that. I can't say for sure, but I would guess there is a chance they may let you swap it out for something if that is the case. I would suggest asking really nicely....and maybe offering bribes. I hear dead presidents work wonders LOL
SoulLord 08-10-05, 11:37 AM	quick question. do we need to pay credits to buy a Dorje? we dont need credits to buy stones......
NiQil 08-10-05, 12:10 PM	quick question. do we need to pay credits to buy a Dorje? we dont need credits to buy stones...... I didn't when I bought mine....
NiQil 08-10-05, 12:13 PM	They cannot wear metal armor and use the various druid abilities affected by that prohibition, correct. Dragonhide, among other materials, makes for good alternatives. A druid/fighter with alot of gold to spend can get heavy armor that is not metal easily enough. Is there anything that restricts the types of armors that can be made of dragonhide? The text for dragonhide gives examples on what can be made based on what is taken from the dragon, but I don't see anything that says you can't make x type of armor with dragonhide or only x and y can be made from dragonhide. I just want to doublecheck this before pairings in case I need to change something.
sloisel 08-10-05, 12:16 PM	Cold iron cost "twice as much to make as their normal counterparts" (SRD.) So a 15gp longsword costs 30gp as a cold iron longsword. Does a MW cold iron longsword cost 330 or 630gp? Sebastien Loisel
NiQil 08-10-05, 12:20 PM	Cold iron cost "twice as much to make as their normal counterparts" (SRD.) So a 15gp longsword costs 30gp as a cold iron longsword. Does a MW cold iron longsword cost 330 or 630gp? Sebastien Loisel Masterwork Cold Iron Longsword: This nonmagical longsword is crafted out of cold iron. As a masterwork weapon, it has a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls. No aura (nonmagical); Price 330 gp. Found in Magic Items (Armor and Weapons) in the SRD.
sloisel 08-10-05, 12:22 PM	Found in Magic Items (Armor and Weapons) in the SRD. Good catch. Cheers, Sebastien Loisel
GuardianAngel 08-10-05, 02:50 PM	I know this is like the 30th question but.... If in a battle a Soulknife uses a Potion of Magic Weapon on his Mindblade. He then throws the Mindblade in a Psychic Strike attack. Regardless of it hitting or not does the Magic Weapon spell disappear? Or will it be retained on Mindblade? Would I need Magic Fang instead?
NiQil 08-10-05, 02:55 PM	I know this is like the 30th question but.... If in a battle a Soulknife uses a Potion of Magic Weapon on his Mindblade. He then throws the Mindblade in a Psychic Strike attack. Regardless of it hitting or not does the Magic Weapon spell disappear? Or will it be retained on Mindblade? Would I need Magic Fang instead? To the best of my knowledge (and I might be wrong...I have not checked the SRD yet), you cannot enhance a mindblade by applying oils to the weapon, since it is not solid, but rather made of energy. Now as far as potions you ingest to enhance your to hit and what not, for the most part those are enhancing *your abilities, not your weapon, so those should be ok. If I get time, I'll scour the SRD.
TelinArtho 08-10-05, 03:10 PM	From the SRD: A soulknife can use feats such as Power Attack or Combat Expertise in conjunction with the mind blade just as if it were a normal weapon. He can also choose mind blade for feats requiring a specific weapon choice, such as Weapon Specialization. Powers or spells that upgrade weapons can be used on a mind blade. Emphasis mine. It would seem that you could upgrade with an oil. I'm not sure if it would stick however if you had to reform it. /d
NiQil 08-10-05, 03:16 PM	From the SRD: Emphasis mine. It would seem that you could upgrade with an oil. I'm not sure if it would stick however if you had to reform it. /d I think ome of us is misinterpreted that....the way I read that is that powers (manifested from a manifester) and spells (cast from a caster) will work. It doesn't seem to be saying anything about potions or oils. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my take on it.
GuardianAngel 08-10-05, 03:32 PM	Hehe....so basicly you both are saying you don't have a clue?....hehe :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
sloisel 08-10-05, 03:37 PM	I know this is like the 30th question but.... If in a battle a Soulknife uses a Potion of Magic Weapon on his Mindblade. He then throws the Mindblade in a Psychic Strike attack. Regardless of it hitting or not does the Magic Weapon spell disappear? Or will it be retained on Mindblade? Would I need Magic Fang instead? First, as to the question of the oil of magic weapon, I'm no authority, but you have the following from the soulknife class description in the SRD: As a move action, a soulknife can create a semisolid blade... The blade can be broken (it has hardness 10 and 10 hit points). If it's got hardness and hit points, I suppose you can apply oil to it. As to whether you can use spells and powers on it, yes: Powers or spells that upgrade weapons can be used on a mind blade. So you'd need magic weapon, not magic fang. Now, as to whether the effect needs to be renewed if your soulblade dissipates and you remetarialise it, it's not 100% clear but the way the Mind Blade Enhancement power works suggests that you're probably good: The weapon ability or abilities remain the same every time the soulknife materializes his mind blade (unless he decides to reassign its abilities; see below). The ability or abilities apply to any form the mind blade takes, including the use of the shape mind blade or bladewind class abilities. A soulknife can reassign the ability or abilities he has added to his mind blade. To do so, he must first spend 8 hours in concentration. After that period, the mind blade materializes with the new ability or abilities selected by the soulknife. I suggest you read your class descriptions! Sebastien Loisel
Luni 08-10-05, 03:51 PM	Are there any questlords available for the week of Aug 17th?
xanadu 08-10-05, 03:56 PM	Luni, If none are available, PM me I might be able to do it.
TelinArtho 08-10-05, 03:57 PM	Although not technically listed as a questlord yet, I've been tossing the idea around. If you'll have me - I'll do it.
King Uther 08-10-05, 04:00 PM	You know I'll do it. Although since I already have many quests, I'll let anyone else get first dibs. PM me if nothing works out.
nightbanegod 08-10-05, 04:02 PM	question on earning credits for stories of arena fights... how old can the fight be before it becomes ineligible to be written about ... if its my own character? who do i ask permission to write the story from? who do i send my story to, is there a thread? just lookin for credits since i got a really cool concept character i need like 4 credits to make... any help would be cool
TelinArtho 08-10-05, 04:05 PM	@nightbanegod - to write a story, just PM the pitlord and make sure it is ok. Then, write the story and send it to him/her to add to the fight post. Once it is added, send a PM to Pitlords and include the link to the fight. I don't think there is a limit on how far back you go, but I would imagine it would need to be from a pitlord who is still around and willing to make the edit for you. Other than that, I think that's all there is.
nightbanegod 08-10-05, 04:08 PM	@tellinartho... Thanks for that .... now my :mage: is gonna get his game on!!!
xanadu 08-10-05, 08:57 PM	question about weapon sizes. help me out here. 1/2 giants can wield larger weapons with no penalty. so large falchion 2d6 and threatens 5 and 10 feet. or large glaive 2d8 and threatens 15 and 20 feet away. 1/2 giant manifests expansion, weapon is now huge sized. huge falchion 3d6 and threatens 5, 10, and 15 feet or huge glaive 3d8 and threatens 20, 25, and 30 feet. is this right?
Gonbow 08-10-05, 09:11 PM	question about weapon sizes. help me out here. 1/2 giants can wield larger weapons with no penalty. so large falchion 2d6 and threatens 5 and 10 feet. or large glaive 2d8 and threatens 15 and 20 feet away. 1/2 giant manifests expansion, weapon is now huge sized. huge falchion 3d6 and threatens 5, 10, and 15 feet or huge glaive 3d8 and threatens 20, 25, and 30 feet. is this right? Falchions never give reach, a half-giant wielding one will always have reach equal to his size. Reach weapons (unless you are small or smaller) always double your reach, regardless of their size. So at medium, you can attack 5-10 but not 0-5, at large you can attack 10-20 but not 0-10. Yes, it used to be different, but no longer. Damages look right.
Cerebus13 08-10-05, 09:13 PM	question about weapon sizes. help me out here. 1/2 giants can wield larger weapons with no penalty. so large falchion 2d6 and threatens 5 and 10 feet. or large glaive 2d8 and threatens 15 and 20 feet away. 1/2 giant manifests expansion, weapon is now huge sized. huge falchion 3d6 and threatens 5, 10, and 15 feet or huge glaive 3d8 and threatens 20, 25, and 30 feet. is this right?Weapon size does not affect reach on it. A small/medium/large glaive will always have reach, while a similar set of Greatswords will not. Check the back of the DMG 3.5 for a set of diagrams that illustrate very well what squares you threaten with weapons/reach weapons at various size increments.
nightbanegod 08-10-05, 10:50 PM	-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, and while I was gone, it looks like you guys introduced some new types of fights. Can someone either tell me the rules on these bigger battles (e.x. 3 v 3, FFA, etc...) or could you at least give me the link to the rules? Thanks -Aramil @pitlords... im sure i missed the post somewhere but what is the official ruling on how to fight in a 3 person fight (ie.. target A before target B) and what are the exp brackets determined by and how much? any help yet?
Faroth 08-10-05, 11:43 PM	Do I have to put a list of what I'm buying with the money of the rewards from the arena battles? see ya
NiQil 08-10-05, 11:57 PM	Do I have to put a list of what I'm buying with the money of the rewards from the arena battles? see ya Not a specific list, but since you will have everything you buy listed on your sheet as either equipment/expendables that you still have, or equipment/expendables that you have used/sold, you just need to make sure that the total gold you show on your sheet as spent matches the total of the rewards from your battles plus the initial 3000 gp everyone gets. If you would like an example, take a look at one of my characters. All the money I have going out (purchases) is in red, all of the money coming in (fight rewards, selling equipment) is in blue. When you add all the red stuff and all the blue stuff together on my sheet, it should equal the total gold I have received to date, which is also listed seperately so that the math is easy to do.
xanadu 08-11-05, 12:42 AM	@ nightbanegod - look at fight of the weeks comments @ all - is there a code to resize images?
sloisel 08-11-05, 11:58 AM	When buttmunch hits ECL4 (which may take a while), I think I'm going to send him on a quest. When I do that, I'll probably take on a little bit of pitlording just so I don't lose credits. However, I can't yet; I have a couple of papers due this month and in September I might have to take a little break when I go on vacation in Italy. Cheers, Sebastien Loisel
xanadu 08-11-05, 12:02 PM	OK, I'm working on a club wielder here. Did I calculate the wepon size / penalties correctly? I'm not a real expert with Shillelagh. The Pulverizer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6925257)
sloisel 08-11-05, 12:09 PM	OK, I'm working on a club wielder here. Did I calculate the wepon size / penalties correctly? I'm not a real expert with Shillelagh. The Pulverizer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6925257) You can't wield a huge greatclub. From http://d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize: The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all. Edit: With exotic weapon proficiency (bastard sword), you could wield a huge bastard sword in two hands for 3d8 instead of a large greatsword for 3d6.
Altaris13 08-11-05, 12:10 PM	Yeah, unfortunately monkeygrip & wield over sized weapon feats are non-Core. :(
NiQil 08-11-05, 12:14 PM	OK, I'm working on a club wielder here. Did I calculate the wepon size / penalties correctly? I'm not a real expert with Shillelagh. The Pulverizer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6925257) I'm wondering where the huge great clubs are coming from at the beginning of your calculations. Being a half-giant would allow you to use large great clubs, and then shillelagh would push the damage on them up by two category sizes damage-wise. A large club so modified would be 3d6+1+Str. Shillelagh Transmutation Level: Drd 1 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: One touched nonmagical oak club or quarterstaff Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: Will negates (object) Spell Resistance: Yes (object) Your own nonmagical club or quarterstaff becomes a weapon with a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. (A quarterstaff gains this enhancement for both ends of the weapon.) It deals damage as if it were two size categories larger (a Small club or quarterstaff so transmuted deals 1d8 points of damage, a Medium 2d6, and a Large 3d6), +1 for its enhancement bonus. These effects only occur when the weapon is wielded by you. If you do not wield it, the weapon behaves as if unaffected by this spell.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-11-05, 12:18 PM	Greatclub is not a legal target for Shillelagh -ToK **EDIT: Your Club, since you are half giant, you can weild a large one, bringing it to 1d8 dmg. Then you apply Shillelagh making it 3d6. Drink pot of enlarge on top of that and it goes to 4d6. Also, you wouldn't suffer the -2 size penalty, since being half giant allows you to wield such a club if i'm not mistaken. But on that point i could be wrong. -ToK
sloisel 08-11-05, 12:20 PM	GIVE KEITH BAKER MORE WRITING AUTHORITY!!! What's up with that? Sebastien Loisel
NiQil 08-11-05, 12:22 PM	Greatclub is not a legal target for Shillelagh -ToK That's one of those things that are assumed in most games, but are technically houserules.....since the spell clearly states that it can only be used on a club or quarterstaff. To use it on a greatclub would require an Elder ruling. At least now I know where the initial numbers came from now.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-11-05, 12:23 PM	That's one of those things that are assumed in most games, but are technically houserules.....since the spell clearly states that it can only be used on a club or quarterstaff. To use it on a greatclub would require an Elder ruling. At least now I know where the initial numbers came from now. It's not a house rule. It's an official rule and a core rule. -ToK
sloisel 08-11-05, 12:23 PM	Drink pot of enlarge on top of that and it goes to 4d6. Not for giants... Sebastien Loisel
Tellish_of_Ket 08-11-05, 12:26 PM	Then use the psionic equivalent of whatever it is. I'm not familiar with psionics so i can't say off hand. -ToK
NiQil 08-11-05, 12:27 PM	It's not a house rule. It's an official rule and a core rule. -ToK I think you misunderstood me....I was saying that being able to use a greatclub with shillelagh is a houserule. By RAW it is not allowed, since the spell clearly states only clubs and quarterstaffs. To be allowed to use a greatclub would require an Elder ruling that a greatclub falls into the category of clubs, and is thus allowed.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-11-05, 12:28 PM	Doh...my bad. sorry. :(
sloisel 08-11-05, 12:34 PM	Then use the psionic equivalent of whatever it is. I'm not familiar with psionics so i can't say off hand. Tattoo of expansion is good because it lets you get large even if you're not humanoid. However, it lasts one round, which can be evaded by a smart opponent so I don't think this is a useful tattoo. Stone of expansion is the same, but at least you can get a ML3 version of it which would last 30 minutes. However, you'd need to have ML's of your own or the UPD skill to use this, it works like a scroll. So half-giant fighters had better not apply. Sebastien Loisel
King Uther 08-11-05, 12:37 PM	Expansion Augmented to a ML 3 lasts for 30 minutes.
Altaris13 08-11-05, 12:38 PM	What's up with that? Sebastien Loisel Eberron my friend, Eberron. It is the holiest of settings, the truest and best campaign setting you can play DnD in. The great and honored Keith Baker is the setting's creator. He does us all great favors by writing Dragonshards, free on-line web articles that provide much plot, flavor & crunch to add to the official source books. On the Eberron boards, which KB frequents, someone was complaining that his most recent article was too short. He mentioned that it was mostly due to word length restrictions placed on him by WotC, and that he often over-writes those limits by a LOT. And so, I say to Wizards, screw them and their silly word limits. Give the settings creator, author & all around cool guy the ability to write what he wants!
Altaris13 08-11-05, 12:39 PM	Tattoo of expansion is good because it lets you get large even if you're not humanoid. However, it lasts one round, which can be evaded by a smart opponent so I don't think this is a useful tattoo. Stone of expansion is the same, but at least you can get a ML3 version of it which would last 30 minutes. However, you'd need to have ML's of your own or the UPD skill to use this, it counts as a scroll. So half-giant fighters had better not apply. Sebastien Loisel Thus, Half-Giant Fighter 1 - PsyWarrior 1. :cool:
Gonbow 08-11-05, 12:39 PM	Normal greatclubs are already Large. This is why they are two-handed weapons for a Medium-sized character. Thus, one-step up is a Huge Greatclub. It's only one increase in damage though.
Altaris13 08-11-05, 12:43 PM	Normal greatclubs are already Large. This is why they are two-handed weapons for a Medium-sized character. Thus, one-step up is a Huge Greatclub. It's only one increase in damage though. That's a good point. Great club = large club. It goes to the monkey grip argument/philosphy. A two-handed sword is basically a large longsword, etc etc.
sloisel 08-11-05, 12:44 PM	Expansion Augmented to a ML 3 lasts for 30 minutes. You must be reloading a lot man because it took me about a minute to fix that. :) Sebastien Loisel
sloisel 08-11-05, 12:45 PM	A two-handed sword is basically a large longsword, etc etc. It's not. A large longsword for a medium creature is two-handed (check), 2d6 (check), -2 to hit (not check). Sebastien Loisel
michael_noah 08-11-05, 01:03 PM	it used to be that a greatsword was a large longsword, but that all changed with the new weapon size rules in 3.5. now, a greatsword is only a greatsword - never anything else. it also has a particular size, and if it's not the right size for you, you take penalties using it. so, a greatclub is a greatclub is a greatclub.
Altaris13 08-11-05, 01:21 PM	Hm... I missed that somehow. My bad!
xanadu 08-11-05, 01:49 PM	Human wield large club for -2 penalty. Large club does 1d8. Human applies shillelagh, large club increases 2 sizes for damage: 1d8 ->2d6 ->3d6 for a -2 penalty. Human wields large club for -2 penalty. Human drinks enlarged. He is now large. His club in now huge (2d6). He wields it at -2. Enlarged, he applies shillelagh, huge club increases 2 sizes for: 2d6 -> 3d6 -> 4d6. None of this is new. 1/2 giants allow you to wield 1 weapon sized larger. The next step from 4d6 is 6d6. There is no monkey-grip involved or greatswords or greatclubs. What did I do wrong?
Pittbull 08-11-05, 02:03 PM	Just a question: What ability use clerics with the magic domain as the referring ability, when activating arcane scrolls? Do they use wisdom or intelligence?
Luni 08-11-05, 02:08 PM	Pretty sure it is intelligence.
sloisel 08-11-05, 02:13 PM	splurt
Tellish_of_Ket 08-11-05, 02:16 PM	Human wield large club for -2 penalty. Large club does 1d8. Human applies shillelagh, large club increases 2 sizes for damage: 1d8 ->2d6 ->3d6 for a -2 penalty. Human wields large club for -2 penalty. Human drinks enlarged. He is now large. His club in now huge (2d6). He wields it at -2. Enlarged, he applies shillelagh, huge club increases 2 sizes for: 2d6 -> 3d6 -> 4d6. None of this is new. 1/2 giants allow you to wield 1 weapon sized larger. The next step from 4d6 is 6d6. There is no monkey-grip involved or greatswords or greatclubs. What did I do wrong? The half-giant already is weilding a weapon one size larger, and that is the large club that the human would use at -2. The half-giant wields this at no penalty. So if your half-giant example wants to use a huge club, take the -2, it would then be 6d6. Though i'm unsure if you can use a weapon of two size categories higher than you...but, if he can't then he can get the 6d6. -ToK
xanadu 08-11-05, 02:38 PM	So if your half-giant example wants to use a huge club, take the -2, it would then be 6d6. -ToK Exactly :D
sloisel 08-11-05, 03:24 PM	My dex is 12, I want to take the dodge feat. In 3.0 the sage once said you could qualify for a feat using gloves of dexterity +2, but that if your dex drops below 13 you lose the benefit of the feat. Is that the case in the arena? Sebastien Loisel
NiQil 08-11-05, 03:34 PM	My dex is 12, I want to take the dodge feat. In 3.0 the sage once said you could qualify for a feat using gloves of dexterity +2, but that if your dex drops below 13 you lose the benefit of the feat. Is that the case in the arena? Sebastien Loisel This from the SRD under Feats: Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite. A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite. Nowhere here does it say that the ability score has to be natural (i.e. not provided by magical equipment). I, personally, would say that yes, you could, since it does say if you lose the prereq, you can't use the feat...which would go along with what you said the sage said. However, if there is something else in the SRD that defines this, then I could be wrong. Bear in mind, however, that you would not be able to take the feat until you met the prereq. Oh great and powerful Oz, I mean Cat...what say you?
Tellish_of_Ket 08-11-05, 03:46 PM	Hey all... Trying to read up on psionics, but the SRD is very confusing to navigate, plus i can't find where they talk about psionic focus. Somes say you must expend your psionic focus to use this feat. Where and what is it? Where do i find it, and read up on it. -ToK
King Uther 08-11-05, 03:52 PM	It's under the concentration skill in the psionics section.
Mind Rogue 08-11-05, 03:53 PM	Psionic Focus is listed under a new use for the concentration skill. Now, out of curiousity, could you take a feat for which you don't ordinarily meet the prerequisites, but occasionally do, and then use it only when you fullfill the criteria? Examples might be a Str 12 Barbarian taking the power attack tree and only being able to Power Attack or Sunder while screaming up a storm, or a druid who wants to take Awesome Blow or Multiattack and use them in Wild Shape.
NiQil 08-11-05, 03:57 PM	Psionic Focus is listed under a new use for the concentration skill. Now, out of curiousity, could you take a feat for which you don't ordinarily meet the prerequisites, but occasionally do, and then use it only when you fullfill the criteria? Examples might be a Str 12 Barbarian taking the power attack tree and only being able to Power Attack or Sunder while screaming up a storm, or a druid who wants to take Awesome Blow or Multiattack and use them in Wild Shape. In your example, I would say no, since in order to level you have to be in a place that is relatively safe and quiet. Given that environment, you would not be raging, nor wildshaped, and thus would not meet the prereqs to take the feats at the time of leveling. At least, that is how I would view it.
NiQil 08-11-05, 03:59 PM	Hey all... Trying to read up on psionics, but the SRD is very confusing to navigate, plus i can't find where they talk about psionic focus. Somes say you must expend your psionic focus to use this feat. Where and what is it? Where do i find it, and read up on it. -ToK CONCENTRATION (CON) You are particularly good at focusing your mind. The following are additional uses for the concentration skill. Check: You must make a Concentration check whenever you might potentially be distracted (by taking damage, by harsh weather, and so on) while engaged in some action that requires your full attention. Such actions include manifesting a power, concentrating on an active power, directing a power, or using a psi-like ability. If the Concentration check succeeds, you can continue with the action as normal. If the check fails, the action automatically fails and is wasted. If you were in the process of manifesting a power, the power points are lost. If you were concentrating on an active power, the power ends as if you had ceased concentrating on it. If you were directing a power, the direction fails but the power remains active. If you were using a psi-like ability, that use of the ability is lost. The table below summarizes various types of distractions that cause you to make a Concentration check. If the distraction occurs while you are trying to manifest a power, you must add the level of the power you are trying to manifest to the appropriate Concentration DC. Concentration DC1 Distraction 10 + damage dealt Damaged during the action.2 10 + half of continuous damage dealt Taking continuous damage during the action.3 15 + power level Attempting to manifest a power without its display. 15 Entangled. Distracting power’s save DC Distracted by nondamaging power.4 20 Gain psionic focus. 20 Grappling or pinned. (You can manifest powers normally unless you fail your Concentration check.) Distracting power’s save DC Weather caused by power4 1 If you are trying to manifest, concentrate on, or direct a power when the distraction occurs, add the level of the power to the indicated DC 2 Such as during the manifestation of a power with a manifesting time of 1 round or more. Also from an attack of opportunity or readied attack made in response to the power being manifested (for powers with a manifesting time of 1 action) or the action being taken (for activities requiring no more than a full-round action). 3 Such as from standing in natural fire or lava. 4 If the power allows no save, use the save DC it would have if it did allow a save. Gain Psionic Focus: Merely holding a reservoir of psionic power points in mind gives psionic characters a special energy. Psionic characters can put that energy to work without actually paying a power point cost-they can become psionically focused as a special use of the Concentration skill. If you have 1 or more power points available, you can meditate to attempt to become psionically focused. The DC to become psionically focused is 20. Meditating is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. When you are psionically focused, you can expend your focus on any single Concentration check you make thereafter. When you expend your focus in this manner, your Concentration check is treated as if you rolled a 15. It’s like taking 10, except that the number you add to your Concentration modifier is 15. You can also expend your focus to gain the benefit of a psionic feat - many psionic feats are activated in this way. Once you are psionically focused, you remain focused until you expend your focus, become unconscious, or go to sleep (or enter a meditative trance, in the case of elans), or until your power point reserve drops to 0. Action: Usually none. In most cases, making a Concentration check doesn’t require an action; it is either a free action (when attempted reactively) or part of another action (when attempted actively). Meditating to gain psionic focus is a full-round action. Try Again: Yes, though a success doesn’t cancel the effects of a previous failure, such as the loss of the power points for a power being manifested or the disruption of a power being concentrated on. Special: You can use Concentration to manifest a power or use a psi-like ability defensively, so as to avoid attacks of opportunity altogether. The DC of the check is 15 + the power’s level. If the Concentration check succeeds, you can manifest normally without provoking any attacks of opportunity. If the Concentration check fails, the power also automatically fails and the power points are wasted, just as if your concentration had been disrupted by a distraction. A character with the Combat Manifestation feat gets a +4 bonus on Concentration checks made to manifest a power or use a psi-like ability while on the defensive or while grappling or pinned. Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Concentration, you get a +2 bonus on Autohypnosis checks. Emphasis mine.
Caterane 08-11-05, 05:50 PM	@Tellish: Just buy the book. You'll need it often enough for the CoCo, and it's not that it's not affordable. No severance from the Forces? Or do you just get a warm handshake in Canada LOL
King Uther 08-11-05, 07:58 PM	@ Everyone I have a job for someone with some time and enthusiasm. I will admit, it is a pain in the....... But, for someone willing to put the time in for me, I will reward you with 30 credits. I'll give you 50 if it's perfect. For reference, it is about color filling and detail. Edit: PM me about it if interested. Otherwise, do not worry about it. I'll be done with it eventually.
Mind Rogue 08-11-05, 08:06 PM	It must be some project if you're offering 30 credits for it, but then again, you do earn a lot of them. Coloring and detail, I'd guess a map. And by the reward, either you're being really lazy or it's one heck of a map.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-11-05, 09:16 PM	Go King GO!! Tellish_of_Ket, King Uther+, nightbanegod, TelinArtho I see King is busy tonight. Four quests simultaneously. Now that's dedication. LOL. -ToK
nightbanegod 08-11-05, 09:25 PM	wow 4 at once? well i must submit my humble gratitude in the presence of the masses then!!! However, Dalamar barely is capable of a smile...unless he is torturing something to his own delights! and on a side note ... if someone shows me how or sends me the program yall make those nifty maps yall post on the boards i would throw extensive perfectionism king uthers way for creating a map ... since i am in most dire need of those credits
Tellish_of_Ket 08-11-05, 09:29 PM	wow 4 at once? well i must submit my humble gratitude in the presence of the masses then!!! However, Dalamar barely is capable of a smile...unless he is torturing something to his own delights! and on a side note ... if someone shows me how or sends me the program yall make those nifty maps yall post on the boards i would throw extensive perfectionism king uthers way for creating a map ... since i am in most dire need of those credits Just follow the yellow brick road (http://www.dungeoncrafter.com/) Get DC 1, not 2, just fyi -ToK
nightbanegod 08-11-05, 11:34 PM	thank you tellish... now i just need to establish my claim to this excersize in creativity with King Uther
Prisonlords 08-12-05, 12:54 AM	I need a volunteer. I've made some space and I will be taking the time to give a detailed sample of what a character audit should look like and what it should include. It is not going to include the Streamlining Initiative, but it is going to cover the basics needed to get the job done. So, if you have a character who has been involved in at least 5 fights, and you would like to experience the fun and excitement of being audited, please send a PM to the Prisonlords account. I'll pick one and post a copy of the character in the Prisonlords thread. From there I will list the post as under construction until I finish the audit. There is no prize, but you get a heads up without any worry about violations.
Prisonlords 08-12-05, 01:59 AM	The Prison is up and running! Check it out. I'm not saying that everything is fully functional, but I am saying that we are going to start using it. I intend to toss EVERYONE in there. So, be aware of your character sheets, check in often, and know that I will make announcements from time to time, but if it is real important, I will post a message here as well. The Streamlining Initiative will be ready to begin as soon as I finish with the post and have all of the Streamlining edits in place. Enjoy and I look forward to working with all of you. LLPL
Faroth 08-12-05, 09:21 AM	A question, What is LOS?? see u
Altaris13 08-12-05, 09:22 AM	A question, What is LOS?? see u Line Of Sight
TelinArtho 08-12-05, 09:44 AM	If you are on campaign and you have non-class allies with you, you get an xp penalty just like in the arena. If you buy a mule (or some other load-carrying beast), that is not going to be used for battle, but just as a means of carrying things - will this apply a) towards the maximum number of allies available to be brought with you? b) towards the xp penalty. The reason I ask is because Sir Valkin is going to be going on campaign soon and having a pack horse to carry non-vitals would seem reasonable. However, since he already rides a horse, it might not even be an option. thanks /d
King Uther 08-12-05, 12:30 PM	I will be offline for approximately the next 60 hours because I am moving. I will be back on Monday.
TelinArtho 08-12-05, 12:46 PM	Can there be an official declaration on whether a Tattoo of Skate costs 50gp or 100gp. Under the text of the power it lists the following: Range: Personal or touch; see text Target: You or one willing creature or one unattended object (total weight up to 100 lb./level); see text I personally don't care which way it is - but since it is inconsistent throughout CoCo - I think an official declaration should be made.
NiQil 08-12-05, 12:56 PM	Can there be an official declaration on whether a Tattoo of Skate costs 50gp or 100gp. Under the text of the power it lists the following: I personally don't care which way it is - but since it is inconsistent throughout CoCo - I think an official declaration should be made. There was....see Pitlords post Here @all: I think we have misunderstood the Skate tattoo. There is no weight limit if it is manifested on yourself. So since you can use it in that way it should cost double like every personal tattoo.
MystErikEry 08-12-05, 01:07 PM	It also has no weight limit when used on another willing creature, and you're not going to claim using the Power on another willing creature is a Personal range spell, are you? o_O That isn't the reason it would be Personal. The only reason would be "Rules as Intended" with it being "Personal if used on yourself, Touch otherwise" except it doesn't, by RAW, say that - so theoretically you could charge up the touch version, and then touch yourself, as you're a valid target (see the Target line) and you can use Touch spells on yourself otherwise. :P
NiQil 08-12-05, 01:15 PM	It also has no weight limit when used on another willing creature, and you're not going to claim using the Power on another willing creature is a Personal range spell, are you? o_O That isn't the reason it would be Personal. The only reason would be "Rules as Intended" with it being "Personal if used on yourself, Touch otherwise" except it doesn't, by RAW, say that - so theoretically you could charge up the touch version, and then touch yourself, as you're a valid target (see the Target line) and you can use Touch spells on yourself otherwise. :P All of that may be true, however that has been the most recent ruling. And I would be willing to bet that you are correct in that it was ruled this way due to being Rules As Intended, vs Rules as Written. I think we *all know that it is supposed to be personal, based on how it was written...we have just be arguing semantics, because we don't want it to cost more, and we don't want to have to back charge ourselves. But per this post from Pitlords, that is the ruling.
Vathelokai 08-12-05, 01:26 PM	So i just turned myself in at the prison for traficking in psionic tatoos. Total I have to pay back...800gp. Jodan really has a habit. @NiQil: So, you trying to get an official post as Prisonlord deputy? :D
NiQil 08-12-05, 01:30 PM	So i just turned myself in at the prison for traficking in psionic tatoos. Total I have to pay back...800gp. Jodan really has a habit. @NiQil: So, you trying to get an official post as Prisonlord deputy? :D :rofl: Everything here at work is kind of on hold at the moment, and since no one is posting on the boards to give me anything to read, I figured I would occupy myself with sifting through characters. Don't worry though...since the rosters are in alphabetical order, I doubt I will get to *your characters today :P Besides....I *know that a couple of my characters have some minor errors that I am waiting for fights to be posted for so I can fix them....someone is more than welcome to report me to the law for those until I can fix em.... ~I fought the law, and the law won. I fought the law, and the law won~
Gonbow 08-12-05, 01:48 PM	All of that may be true, however that has been the most recent ruling. And I would be willing to bet that you are correct in that it was ruled this way due to being Rules As Intended, vs Rules as Written. I think we *all know that it is supposed to be personal, based on how it was written...we have just be arguing semantics, because we don't want it to cost more, and we don't want to have to back charge ourselves. But per this post from Pitlords, that is the ruling. No, I don't 'know' that it is supposed to be personal. It clearly states Personal or one other creature or one object (up to weight limit). That's not semantics, that is how the power works! (Nor do I think it was intended to cost 100 rather than 50... The difference in cost is If it is going to cost more, so be it; the vast majority of tattoos cost 100 already, one more isn't that big of a difference.) Everyone has a right to thier opinion, but please don't speak for others NiQil.
KerlanRayne 08-12-05, 02:16 PM	Didn't I see something about intelligent items being allowed now? Where are the rules for this? KerlanRayne
NiQil 08-12-05, 02:22 PM	No, I don't 'know' that it is supposed to be personal. It clearly states Personal or one other creature or one object (up to weight limit). That's not semantics, that is how the power works! (Nor do I think it was intended to cost 100 rather than 50... The difference in cost is If it is going to cost more, so be it; the vast majority of tattoos cost 100 already, one more isn't that big of a difference.) Everyone has a right to thier opinion, but please don't speak for others NiQil. As I said, I think we all know...I wasn't speaking for anything other than what my opinion was. I spoke for no one else. I spoke to what my opinions of others thoughts might be. Whether I am correct in what I think or not, it is still my opinion. No offense, Gonbow, but don't put words in my mouth. And since the issue has been ruled on, I think we can let it go. Pitlords post was clear. Edit: I also found this in the SRD under Psionic Tattoos. By definition, a psionic tattoo cannot be made with a power that affect another creature (that is what crawling tattoos are for). So per this entry, and Pitlords ruling, I agree that Skate tattoos should be personal cost. The user of the psionic tattoo is both the manifester and the target; therefore, powers that target another creature cannot be stored in psionic tattoo form. Powers with a range of personal can be made into psionic tattoos, but they cost double the price of standard psionic tattoos.
Mind Rogue 08-12-05, 03:50 PM	There seems to be a "common logic" error here. "... powers that target another creature cannot be stored in psionic tattoo form." Okay, that makes sense. The wearer must be the target of the power. However, the fact that it says that personal powers cost twice as much as normal powers is kind of funny, since if the power isn't personal, and it doesn't target other creatures, what else could be used? What it should say is that the power affects the wearer, even if it would normally affect another creature (thus powers that affect other creatures could be scribed, but they affect you instead). If the power normally only has a range of personal, it costs double. I'm pretty sure that's what's intended, although it could be construed such that the vast majority of powers cannot be scribed, because they affect other creatures, although most of them make poor tattoos. In general, you wouldn't want a tattoo that causes 1d6 fire damage to you (although you might if you were a shambling mound. The other thing is that most useful powers are indeed personal range (vigor, synesthete, precognition, tongues, inertial armor, force screen, empty mind, body adjustment, and so on), so you're almost invariably stuck with a double-cost tatoo anyway. Hence the reason why I prefer potions of Mage Armor.
MystErikEry 08-12-05, 03:50 PM	So all tattoos should be considered "Personal" range and thus cost double? By RAW, you can manifest Skate as a touch spell, and then touch yourself. All touch spells can be used on yourself. There's nothing in the Skate description that says "If used as a touch range power, you may not target yourself; instead, it is simply a personal range spell." As it is, there's nothing in the text that indicates whether the spell is Personal or touch range, excepting that it obviously must be touch range for other subjects. Aside from that, there's only one reason you'd use it as a Personal range Power: to use it while you're being grappled or otherwise can't touch yourself, or somesuch. Of course, it has little use, then. RAI says that it's either a Personal Range spell, or a touch range spell which can only affect others and objects. That's why it costs double - not because you're manifesting it on yourself (since otherwise all tattoos would be twice the price, since they're all going to be used on yourself) but because it is considered a Personal range spell when you do so (unlike other Touch spells/powers, like the Cure spells)... :P Please, don't try to explain it using RAW. By RAW, you can manifest Skate as a touch power and then touch yourself, and thus are allowed to make a psionic tattoo using the touch version of it with yourself as the target, as the text nowhere says that it is not a touch power when doing so. It's a RAI vs RAW thing, and that's about the extent of it. Edit Note: Please note I use power and spell interchangeably throughout this. I apoligize for any inconsistancy XD
NiQil 08-12-05, 04:02 PM	I agree that this is a RAI vs RAW thing. And no, not all tattoos would be personal and cost double. Only personal effect tattoos. I think, in the paragraph I quoted, that it was also covering crawling tattoos. I might be mistaken. But if you look at it from that standpoint, it makes much more sense. Tattoos that are personal cost double, and ones that effect others would be crawling tattoos, and thus not bound by the double cost. A crawling tattoo is where you put all of your damage powers and things of that nature. For instance, putting Entangling Ectoplasm in a tattoo is a crawling tattoo. A tattoo of Mind Thrust would be a crawling tattoo. Crawling tattoos are not bound by the double cost. So in the case of skate (and this is my interpretation of it only), to have it work on yourself, it would be a normal tattoo, with the double cost for personal, and if you wanted it to use on someone else or on an object, it would have to be a crawling tattoo. Now maybe that is way off. But that, at least to me, appears to be the most logical explanation. But all of this is kind of moot, anyway, unless Cat wants to change his ruling.
Maraxus 08-12-05, 06:56 PM	Wow, I'm new to psionics, especially 3.5. And I'm just seeing this dissolving weapon in action. This is so powerful! I need to have this, too. To bad, you can't regulary get manifester services with a caster level higher then your ECL, but once my characters hit ECL4, I will always run around with some weapons with Dissolving Weapon cast on them. 80gp for 4d6 that even dont go off when you miss! You better get some potions of resist energy, I will. :) The text does not say this clearly, but does it work with ranged weapons, too?
Tellish_of_Ket 08-12-05, 07:54 PM	Speaking of Psionic Experts: Is there a psionic equivalent of True Strike? I looked, but couldn't find one. -ToK
MystErikEry 08-12-05, 08:35 PM	Wow, I'm new to psionics, especially 3.5. And I'm just seeing this dissolving weapon in action. This is so powerful! I need to have this, too. To bad, you can't regulary get manifester services with a caster level higher then your ECL, but once my characters hit ECL4, I will always run around with some weapons with Dissolving Weapon cast on them. 80gp for 4d6 that even dont go off when you miss! You better get some potions of resist energy, I will. :) The text does not say this clearly, but does it work with ranged weapons, too? You'd use it on the ammunition, since it doesn't bestow it upon its ammunition. Also, I'm not sure if you can get someone else to cast it on your weapon :/ If you touch your weapon after they cast it, that would count as an attack, as far as I know, and harm you. It does say, after all, that you're immune to the acid yourself, but others are not. And it's a Personal range spell...
Mind Rogue 08-12-05, 09:15 PM	I find it kind of funny that we allow Dissolving Weapon as a prebuff when we don't allow Dissolving Touch. I think it's even weirder that Dissolving Weapon lasts until you connect with something while Dissolving Touch only lasts for 1 round, unless what DW means is, "... except your weapon is charged with acid until you make a successful attack or the acid denatures 1 round later" which would allow you the chance to attack with it, but not to hold it and wait. But then, I'm not really a fan of deep-crystal either. Charging a weapon should at least be a move-equivalent, but probably a standard action.
Caterane 08-12-05, 09:39 PM	Didn't I see something about intelligent items being allowed now? Where are the rules for this? KerlanRayne See Blackmarket. @Tok: Nope.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-12-05, 10:20 PM	Thanks. Can someone please link the srd section that shows personal tattoo's are double the cost? For the life of me i can't find it. I even looked under crawling tatoo's and nowhere does it say that. thanks in advance. -ToK
Gonbow 08-12-05, 10:42 PM	@ToK Its in the general Psionic Items section, under 'Creating Psionic Tattoos' here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicItems.html). I'll quote as well. Creating Psionic Tattoos The creator of a psionic tattoo must have a patch of uncovered skin free of hair and fur, and at least a few containers in which to mix dyes. In addition, he needs special materials, usually to create dyes. The costs for materials and dyes are subsumed in the cost for scribing the psionic tattoo: 25 gp x the level of the power x the level of the manifester. All ingredients and materials used to scribe a psionic tattoo must be fresh and unused. The character must pay the full cost for scribing each psionic tattoo. (Economies of scale do not apply.) The user of the psionic tattoo is both the manifester and the target; therefore, powers that target another creature cannot be stored in psionic tattoo form. Powers with a range of personal can be made into psionic tattoos, but they cost double the price of standard psionic tattoos. The creator must know the power to be placed in the psionic tattoo (or must have the power available in some other form). If manifesting the power would reduce the manifester’s XP total, he pays the XP cost upon beginning the scribing in addition to the experience point cost for making the psionic tattoo itself. The act of scribing triggers the power as if it had been manifested, costing the character an appropriate number of power points. Scribing a psionic tattoo requires one day. Item Creation Feat Required:Scribe Tattoo. The whole targeting bit is fishy, and leads to things like tattoos of Skate costing double and it also leaves questions like area spells that target the caster (I wouldn't mind spending 750 for a fireball at ground zero if I have Evasion, eh?) and bizzare targeting scenarios; like dissolving weapon on a natural weapon (like a monk's fist or a lizardman's claws). It targets the weapon, but I am the weapon, so can it be scribed or not? ;)
Tellish_of_Ket 08-12-05, 10:46 PM	@ToK Its in the general Psionic Items section, under 'Creating Psionic Tattoos' here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicItems.html). I'll quote as well. The whole targeting bit is fishy, and leads to things like tattoos of Skate costing double and it also leaves questions like area spells that target the caster (I wouldn't mind spending 750 for a fireball at ground zero if I have Evasion, eh?) and bizzare targeting scenarios; like dissolving weapon on a natural weapon (like a monk's fist or a lizardman's claws). It targets the weapon, but I am the weapon, so can it be scribed or not? ;) Why not just make a crawling tatoo of skate etc...? They don't cost double do they? Seems like the price guide for crawling tatoos is pretty fixed. -ToK
NiQil 08-12-05, 10:57 PM	Why not just make a crawling tatoo of skate etc...? They don't cost double do they? Seems like the price guide for crawling tatoos is pretty fixed. -ToK Because crawling tattoos of skate would not affect you. Crawling tattoos leave your body when tapped and would affect whoever you target them at. Hence the reason I believe that skate as a personal effect is a normal tattoo and costs double, while buying it to use on someone else or an object (the touch part of the descriptor) would be a crawling tattoo aimed at someone else. Normal tattoos can't be targeted at another creature. Crawling tattoos are *designed to be targeted at another creature. That's why they *have crawling tattoos. As Mind Rogue stated earlier (paraphrasing here for an example)....would you really want to tap a tattoo of Crystal Shards and take 1d6 damage, or would you prefer to tap a crawling tattoo of Crystal Shards and have that 1d6 go to someone else?
Tellish_of_Ket 08-12-05, 11:02 PM	@Tellish: Just buy the book. You'll need it often enough for the CoCo, and it's not that it's not affordable. No severance from the Forces? Or do you just get a warm handshake in Canada LOL I didn't even get that. Long story behind it though. @ Everyone I have a job for someone with some time and enthusiasm. I will admit, it is a pain in the....... But, for someone willing to put the time in for me, I will reward you with 30 credits. I'll give you 50 if it's perfect. For reference, it is about color filling and detail. Edit: PM me about it if interested. Otherwise, do not worry about it. I'll be done with it eventually. I'm interested. What is it? PM me by all means. I have lots of spare time on my hands right now. -ToK
Maraxus 08-13-05, 04:08 AM	You'd use it on the ammunition, since it doesn't bestow it upon its ammunition. Also, I'm not sure if you can get someone else to cast it on your weapon :/ If you touch your weapon after they cast it, that would count as an attack, as far as I know, and harm you. It does say, after all, that you're immune to the acid yourself, but others are not. And it's a Personal range spell... That with the ranged/ammunition I'm not sure about, too. I definitly does not work on the amunition directly, but since it says As dissolving touch, except your weapon is charged with acid until you make a successful attack. And it does not say, that the weapon needs to be in touch with the target at that time, I think it works on bows. And then you can shoot and as soon as you hit something, the dissolving activates. I think that's a good literal interpretation of the wording. I'm only not so sure if it was intended that way. The power is simply badly worded. Hey, my manifester can put down the weapon and I pick it up. Or I disarm him, in any way, this does not count as an attack against me. And that it is a personal range power only means, that the target (the weapon) must be held in the moment, the power is manifestet. ...And wouldn't be that power be much to good to limit it to one class? :)
MystErikEry 08-13-05, 04:50 AM	Well, an arrow is a weapon. A bow is also a weapon, but it never strikes the opponent. The personal nature of the Power makes me wonder its intent. It doesn't seem like it should be Personal - it should be Touch. Personal affects only the user - and in this case, it explicitly works for a weapon, instead. The first one is a Touch range spell (Dissolving Touch) whereas Dissolving Weapon is a Personal range spell that affects a weapon. Since it notes that the acid doesn't harm the caster, I would assume it would harm anyone else it touches. Also, why can't you prebuff with Dissolving Touch? Your touch, claw, or bite is corrosive, and sizzling moisture visibly oozes from your natural weapon or hand. You deal 4d6 points of acid damage to any creature or object you touch with your successful melee touch attack. Acid you secrete denatures 1 round after use, losing all efficacy and ability to deal damage. You are immune to your own acid. So, let's look at this: Dissolving Touch is a Touch-range Power that deals 4d6 points of damage to the target. For the remainder of that round, you still have the effect of the acid available, but one round after using it, it's gone. Dissolving Weapon is a Personal-range Power that affects one held weapon whose acid is removed with a successful attack. I wish it said more. For example, does it only work on your own weapon? That is, if someone else tries to take your weapon (ie by touching it), do they take acid damage and have the acid immediately lose efficacy? Does it do 4d6 points of damage? It just says it's charged with acid; it doesn't say it does any extra damage with a particular hit (although I assume it does mean to deal 4d6 points of damage). I also think that Dissolving Touch is worded poorly; its target is a creature or object touched, which I can only assume is the creature/object attacked with Acid. Of course, this is silly, since it says that it affects your natural weapons, too, when it doesn't have to - as far as I know, you can make touch attacks with natural weapons as it is, except that you have to hold the charge one round in order to actually make an attack other than the touch attack. So from what I understand it, it's actually a Personal range spell that makes your touch (as a touch attack), or your unarmed strike or a natural weapon (as a normal attack) deal 4d6 points of acid damage. This is broken for a Monk, since they can activate the Power and then flurry of blows for 4d6 x Attacks damage... Ouch. So, Dissolving Weapon should actually be a Personal range spell that makes your next weapon attack deal 4d6 points of acid damage, rather than affecting the weapon itself. After all, True Strike is a Personal Range spell, and it affects attacks, too :D That's the way it seems to be intended, anyway.
Maraxus 08-13-05, 05:14 AM	Of course, this is silly, since it says that it affects your natural weapons, too, when it doesn't have to I think this is only written there to say, you need an empty hand on a natural weapon to use this ability. So with a swort in one hand you can use the other hand to deliver the touch, but if you have a weapon in each hand, you can't do that, unless you have a free natural weapon (bite) to deliver the dissolving touch. This is broken for a Monk, since they can activate the Power and then flurry of blows for 4d6 x Attacks damage... Ouch. How, the spell is a standard action, so you can't attack anymore after manifesting it. And 1 round duration ends directly before your next action. However, if the target is "Creature or object touched", this does usually mean, that you get a free touch attack with the casting of the spell. You could argue, that it also works on AoOs this round. I thing that's after the wording through probably not intended (on the other hand: Why else should the acid dissolve after 1 round and not after the use in your action...) However, this gives me a complete new view on dissolving weapon. I thought As dissolving touch, except your weapon is charged with acid until you make a successful attack. would replace You deal 4d6 points of acid damage to any creature or object you touch with your successful melee touch attack. Acid you secrete denatures 1 round after use, losing all efficacy and ability to deal damage. But maybe it is only meant to replace "You deal 4d6 points of acid damage to any creature or object you touch with your successful melee touch attack." or in other words, this allows you to make an attack with the weapon instead of the unarmed strike - but still dissolves after one turn. I think that would be far more balanced - but the way you read it now it definitly works another way. *Looks for an errata/clarification about this*
nightbanegod 08-13-05, 09:54 AM	ewwww.... an EL 3 half giant monk/psionic something that could do 12d6 acid damage in one round while grappling? i just dont think thats very fair!!!
Gonbow 08-13-05, 10:05 AM	ewwww.... an EL 3 half giant monk/psionic something that could do 12d6 acid damage in one round while grappling? i just dont think thats very fair!!! Eh? No, they could do 5d6. You cant flurry of blows unless you are making a full attack; someting you are NOT doing when you grapple. Even when they are not grappling, unless they find some way to make activating dissolving touch a swift action, they are still limited to one attack. A greatsword with dissolving weapon does 6d6; much more dangerous. EDIT: Of course, the wording on Dissolving Touch doesn't nessecarially state that it wears off 1 round after you cast it, but one round after you USE it. Unforunately, due to the targeting wording, you still cant get a tattoo of dissolving touch, as you'd take 4d6 acid damage.
Vathelokai 08-13-05, 11:19 AM	Because crawling tattoos of skate would not affect you. Crawling tattoos leave your body when tapped and would affect whoever you target them at. Hence the reason I believe that skate as a personal effect is a normal tattoo and costs double, while buying it to use on someone else or an object (the touch part of the descriptor) would be a crawling tattoo aimed at someone else. Normal tattoos can't be targeted at another creature. Crawling tattoos are *designed to be targeted at another creature. That's why they *have crawling tattoos. As Mind Rogue stated earlier (paraphrasing here for an example)....would you really want to tap a tattoo of Crystal Shards and take 1d6 damage, or would you prefer to tap a crawling tattoo of Crystal Shards and have that 1d6 go to someone else? Au Contrare... Crawling tattoos resemble standard psionic tattoos, but their effects are often harmful rather than beneficial. Like a psionic tattoo, a crawling tattoo can be scribed only with a power of no higher than 3rd level that targets one or more creatures. Exceptions are the body adjustment power, which can be scribed even though it affects only the manifester, and telepathy (compulsion) powers, which cannot be scribed at all. Powers that normally have an area affect only one target if scribed in a crawling tattoo. Powers with an experience point requirement cannot be scribed into a crawling tattoo. Otherwise, crawling tattoos are treated as psionic tattoos until they are activated by the wearer. You could get a crawling tatoo of skate. The major difference would be that it hits you and activates on the round after you tap it.
Mind Rogue 08-13-05, 12:12 PM	Also, why can't you prebuff with Dissolving Touch? You can't prebuff with Dissolving Touch because the rules of CoCo state that you cannot hold a touch spell long enough to use it as a prebuff (I guess you are assumed to have touched something before the battle starts). I personally believe the same logic should be applied to Dissolving Weapon.
NiQil 08-13-05, 01:19 PM	Au Contrare... You could get a crawling tatoo of skate. The major difference would be that it hits you and activates on the round after you tap it. I stand corrected....you *could get one if you wanted to....and that would be a way around the whole personal double cost bit. Because you can *allow the touch attack to happen....the only drawback, as you said, is that it would kick in the following round...not the round you tap it. So, for those that want to pay 50 for their skate tattoos instead of 100, since Pitlord ruled they are personal as far as normal tattoos go, if you want to get a crawling tattoo of skate, you could pay 50 to get one instead of 100, and then upon tapping you would need to specify that you are allowing the touch attack to happen, and then the skate would kick in the following round. That actually seems like a pretty good "compromise" (for lack of a better word) to solve the whole situation. By buying the normal tattoo with the range of personal and paying the extra 50, you are basically paying for the ability to have it go off the same round you tap it. That may seem a little pricey for the effect, but I think it goes a long way towards solving the issue. Your mileage may vary.
Vathelokai 08-13-05, 01:31 PM	I actually came up with the idea when I was in a team fight. I thought, "why not get a crawling tatoo of skate and send it to my partner, or have it hit my mount?" Hey Valkin! Get a crawling tat of animal affinity (lion) and have it "attack" Foreman.
NiQil 08-13-05, 01:38 PM	I actually came up with the idea when I was in a team fight. I thought, "why not get a crawling tatoo of skate and send it to my partner, or have it hit my mount?" Hey Valkin! Get a crawling tat of animal affinity (lion) and have it "attack" Foreman. :heehee
Vathelokai 08-13-05, 04:05 PM	Do you have to pay for your familiar if you are a spell caster? What if your first lv. was not in wizard/sorcerer? Some people have been paying 100gp and some have paid nothing.
NiQil 08-13-05, 04:14 PM	Do you have to pay for your familiar if you are a spell caster? What if your first lv. was not in wizard/sorcerer? Some people have been paying 100gp and some have paid nothing. By the RAW, yes you do. Any characters you see without having paid that price should be reported to the Prisons. What your first level was makes no difference...because you would not have the ability to summon it until you take that first level in wizard/sorcerer, even if you already have 7 levels in rogue or something else. Bear in mind, though, that you are not *required to have a familiar, so if you don't want one, then spend the 100 gp on something shiny. :D
Altaris13 08-13-05, 05:02 PM	@Vath & NiQil: yeah, by RAW you do have to pay the 100gp for your familiar. Most DMs don't bother with it though.
Faroth 08-13-05, 06:48 PM	A question, a Rgr lv1 can cast spells from scrolls of spells of the ranger list? see u
Maraxus 08-13-05, 06:59 PM	No, a ranger level 1-3 has no caster level at all.
Vathelokai 08-13-05, 07:47 PM	A wand can be used by anyone who has the spell on their list, even if they don't have the spell yet. As for scrolls... To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements. * The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.) * The user must have the spell on his or her class list. * The user must have the requisite ability score. If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers. So, yes you can and you can use cleric scrolls as well.
Maraxus 08-13-05, 08:02 PM	You can use cleric (or druid) scrolls, however, without a caster level, you can't "make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully" A 4th or hight level ranger can use cleric scrolls - usually better then ranger scrolls (has a ranger ever taken scribe scoll?), but a first level ranger can not. For wands you are right, activation method "Spell Trigger" can even be used by someone who can't cast spells yet (or at all, even a Wisdom 9 Ranger could use a wand) but "Spell Completion" is more difficult
Kaigan 08-13-05, 08:10 PM	You can use cleric (or druid) scrolls, however, without a caster level, you can't "make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully" A 4th or hight level ranger can use cleric scrolls - usually better then ranger scrolls (has a ranger ever taken scribe scoll?), but a first level ranger can not. For wands you are right, activation method "Spell Trigger" can even be used by someone who can't cast spells yet (or at all, even a Wisdom 9 Ranger could use a wand) but "Spell Completion" is more difficult For scrolls you are wrong. A ranger can only cast divine spells and use divine scrolls from his spell list. He does not have access to any cleric spells unless they are part of his spell list.
Gonbow 08-13-05, 08:13 PM	For scrolls you are wrong. A ranger can only cast divine spells and use divine scrolls from his spell list. He does not have access to any cleric spells unless they are part of his spell list. I don't think he was suggesting that you can, but merely that a ranger can use a scroll scribed by a cleric if the spell on the scroll is on his spell list, which is correct. Same goes for druids and paladin scribed scrolls even.
Maraxus 08-13-05, 08:34 PM	Right, I wanted to say this. A ranger can use scrolls like a level 0 Detect Poison, or a caster level 1 Magic fang (obviously scribed by a druid) or even a level 1 cure light wounds.
TelinArtho 08-13-05, 09:26 PM	This post seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle about the tattoos - anyone have an answer? If you are on campaign and you have non-class allies with you, you get an xp penalty just like in the arena. If you buy a mule (or some other load-carrying beast), that is not going to be used for battle, but just as a means of carrying things - will this apply a) towards the maximum number of allies available to be brought with you? b) towards the xp penalty. The reason I ask is because Sir Valkin is going to be going on campaign soon and having a pack horse to carry non-vitals would seem reasonable. However, since he already rides a horse, it might not even be an option. thanks /d
nightbanegod 08-13-05, 09:36 PM	LE sigh... no sign of the 3 person FFA my horseman was in.... LE sigh... :weep:
NiQil 08-13-05, 09:42 PM	LE sigh... no sign of the 3 person FFA my horseman was in.... LE sigh... :weep: Patience, my young Padiwan. (sp?)
Faroth 08-13-05, 11:01 PM	Is permitted the prestige class Red Wizard in the Core Coliseum? see u
xanadu 08-13-05, 11:25 PM	Is permitted the prestige class Red Wizard in the Core Coliseum? see u Yes!
nightbanegod 08-13-05, 11:59 PM	ahh i see that sympathy first comes from NIQIL... the infiltrator of the horsemen of the apocalypse... seeing as how im modeling my horseman after WAR... you just got your characters up before me and i just now noticed them... perhaps our respective counterparts could duel some time? i could post the 3 im missing... then we have a 4 vs 4 me thinks...
NiQil 08-14-05, 12:10 AM	ahh i see that sympathy first comes from NIQIL... the infiltrator of the horsemen of the apocalypse... seeing as how im modeling my horseman after WAR... you just got your characters up before me and i just now noticed them... perhaps our respective counterparts could duel some time? i could post the 3 im missing... then we have a 4 vs 4 me thinks... Alas, poor Horatio...I knew him well. My Horsemen have gone the way of the Dodo. But feel free to make up yours, and if you would like to challenge the Order of Divine Might, well then I'm your huckleberry.
Caterane 08-14-05, 03:47 AM	Order of Divine Might? Just don't tell me it's another set of 4 new PCs LOL :P
NiQil 08-14-05, 04:06 AM	Order of Divine Might? Just don't tell me it's another set of 4 new PCs LOL :P Nope.....it's 8 of them....all with both a familiar and an animal companion as well as a mount. LMAO Actually, they are my four current characters....or so sayeth my sig.
nightbanegod 08-14-05, 09:35 AM	:rofl: .... hey no problem... i dont have credits to pay ... BUT if for some strange reason the pitlords found it in their hearts to accidentally pair my horseman up with your WAR character next week... i would be most pleased
Faroth 08-14-05, 10:10 AM	Then, I think I'll create a Red Wizard. Now to wait for the books... isn't the same in 3.5? I'd like to know, I have the FRCS de 3.0 but I don't have the DM Guide yet and I don't know what to do, at least please tell me if the prerequisites are the same. Thanks. see u
sloisel 08-14-05, 10:12 AM	A longsword is 15gp, a large weapon is 2x price, a cold iron weapon is 2x price, so a large, cold iron longsword is 45 gp ("doubled doubling=tripling") or 60 gp ("a huge weapon is four times as heavy as a medium one, doubled doubling=quadrupling")? On the other materials, the material price is unaffected by the weapon size so right now I'm going with 45gp. Let me know if I'm wrong. Sebastien Loisel
sloisel 08-14-05, 10:13 AM	Then, I think I'll create a Red Wizard. Now to wait for the books... isn't the same in 3.5? I'd like to know, I have the FRCS de 3.0 The class is very different. It no longer gets higher save DCs in its specialized school. Sebastien Loisel
nightbanegod 08-14-05, 01:11 PM	A longsword is 15gp, a large weapon is 2x price, a cold iron weapon is 2x price, so a large, cold iron longsword is 45 gp ("doubled doubling=tripling") or 60 gp ("a huge weapon is four times as heavy as a medium one, doubled doubling=quadrupling")? On the other materials, the material price is unaffected by the weapon size so right now I'm going with 45gp. Let me know if I'm wrong. your looking at a price of 60 gp... this is why... cold iron long swords are double gp of a regular long sword... and a regular large long sword would be 30 gp... your not just paing an additional 15 gp to a medium long sword for an extension on the end of it... it is a regular item... and the base price for it is 30 as is.. so double that if the material it is made out of is cold iron.. id prolly want to make it masterwork if i were you though. Also take craft weaponsmithing to try and get a reduced price for that... its worth it in the long run if you make yourself weapons...
nightbanegod 08-14-05, 01:14 PM	red wizard prereqs as is in the 3.5 DMG ... Human from Thay Any nongood alignment spellcraft 8 ranks Tattoo Focus (new feat in DMG) able to cast 3rd lvl arcane spells
Pitlords 08-14-05, 01:40 PM	@all: After a productive discussion in the House of Commons, we have finally found a good way to make use of skills that were more or less useless in the CoCo. That has changed now! - You can now get a discount when buying items by using bluff, sense motive, and appraise in combination. - You can save the credit cost for custom items by using your Gladius Underworld knowledge, which is expressed by Gather Information. - You can use diplomacy to acquire an ally with an intelligence between 3 and 6. I still need to write up the detailed list but a provisional list with the creature names is posted in the House of Commons. - Most importantly, I've introduced "Free Activities". These are activities like Earning money with skills, getting discounts, training animals, etc which are now set into rules. See FAQ: Skills (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466576) for details! Please read it so that there will be no confusion. I also want to ask you to give me your opinion on wether we should lower the maximum allowed CL/ML for scrolls and powerstones from ECL+2 (as it is now) to ECL+0. I've noticed that expandable items play a far too strong role in fights. Please join this discussion in the House of Commons. Thanks.
xanadu 08-14-05, 03:08 PM	Wands of entangle are a dime a dozen here at Gladius; I had no idea it wasn't in the DMG! I know because I been hit with them multiple times! Throw these offenders in prison! Speaking of the prison, can I get a ruling on the legality my shillelagh club weilder before he gets thown into prison or I am told its an illegal build? Here is the boring & typical usage of shillelagh: Human wield large club for -2 penalty. Large club does 1d8. Human gets enlarged. Large club becomes huge and does 2d6 damage Enlarged, he applies shillelagh, huge club increases 2 sizes for: 2d6 -> 3d6 -> 4d6. None of this is earth-shattering. Now, let's explore the possibilities. My first question is if a greatclub is a legal target for shillelagh. A greatclub is simply a big club one wields with 2 hands. Mostly I ask because this removes the nonsense of a human using a large sized club with 2 hands instead of simply picking up a larger "medium" sized tree branch he could use with 2 hands. Why shillelagh would apply to the large size "club" and not to a medium-sized great"club" seems silly to me. A greatclub is every much a club as a greatsword is a sword. Second question is unrelated. Let's stick with the boring shillelagh usage described above. A 1/2 giant is allowed to wield 1 weapon sized larger. So replacing "human" with "1/2 giant" in the above formula means we will incease our club 1 more size from 4d6 to 6d6 (he'd still take the -2 penalty). Right?
michael_noah 08-14-05, 03:12 PM	xanadu, you're right on all accounts, including the silliness of the rule. the RAW as it stands, though, says it only works on "clubs".
Faroth 08-14-05, 03:45 PM	I'd like to know how is calculated the dc of scrolls. 10 + Spell level + Int Mod? I think in the case of bought scrolls, the int mod is the minimun, but what about a self crafted scroll? Use the Int Mod of the character? or the min? see u
NiQil 08-14-05, 03:51 PM	I'd like to know how is calculated the dc of scrolls. 10 + Spell level + Int Mod? I think in the case of bought scrolls, the int mod is the minimun, but what about a self crafted scroll? Use the Int Mod of the character? or the min? see u When purchasing a scroll, the DC is always 10 + Spell level, unless specifically stated otherwise. Scrolls are always created at the minimum DC. When crafting a scroll, the DC of the scroll is at least 10 + Spell level. You can make it a higher CL if you choose, to gain extra duration, effect, etc. Your INT modifier is not taken into account for the DC of scrolls at creation.
Caterane 08-14-05, 03:56 PM	That's wrong, NiQil! A scroll's DC is always 10+spell level+minimum INT required to cast the spell. Example: 1st level scroll, Int required 11 -> +0 DC = 10+1+0 = 11 3rd level scroll, Int required 13 -> +1 DC = 10+3+1 = 14 6th level scroll, Int required 16 -> +3 DC = 10+6+3 = 19
nightbanegod 08-14-05, 03:59 PM	@caterane ... so then is my wizard getting ripped off for his 20 int for any scroll he scribes for himself?
NiQil 08-14-05, 04:01 PM	That's wrong, NiQil! A scroll's DC is always 10+spell level+minimum INT required to cast the spell. Example: 1st level scroll, Int required 11 -> +0 DC = 10+1+0 = 11 3rd level scroll, Int required 13 -> +1 DC = 10+3+1 = 14 6th level scroll, Int required 16 -> +3 DC = 10+6+3 = 19 LOL I came back to edit my post, but you had already beat me to it. I had to double check, because I rarely make scrolls. Yer correct.
Erithmu 08-14-05, 04:32 PM	only ripped off for the offensive ones that allow a DC. Most scrolls that I scribe are protective, or have no saving throw.
Vathelokai 08-14-05, 05:33 PM	Remember that the other variables (durration, copies for high lv., etc.) do count the higher caster lv. Yes the DC formula for scrolls is wonky, but it is set that day so that a wizard cannot cast spells at full power as much as they want. Just remember that magic missile and true strike are the only 'attack' spells worthwhile on scrolls. A scroll with 5 mm will save your butt. I've seen it plenty of times. My suggestion: go through your spell list, and memorize a spell with a fort save, a reflex and a will (like grease, ray of enfeble, and sleep) and put everything else on scroll.
Vathelokai 08-14-05, 06:10 PM	The prisonlords fully intend to implement the following character sheet template before the next pairings. Streamlining Initiative (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6841099&postcount=4) Also be warned that the following characters have been reported to the prison. This list counts up to post 40 in the prison. If you don't fix these errors before next pairings prisonlords will put a violation on your rapsheet. Dunewalker (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6945346&postcount=12) Harvester #3 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6945777&postcount=13) Aeryn Valaer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6945910&postcount=15) Minesbiggarinyers (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6945999&postcount=16) Ch'ch'ili (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6946276&postcount=17) N'rik Hathindar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6946632&postcount=18) Skez Dreadfury (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6946852&postcount=19) Ormos Bhaenth (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6947031&postcount=20) Jodan Desho (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6947118&postcount=22) Vorag Grishnak (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6947241&postcount=23) Basil Arawn (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6947978&postcount=24) Lothan Laurel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6960307&postcount=30) Yasha Tankou (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6960399&postcount=31) Dagnal Undercut (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6960504&postcount=32) Loxlee (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6960629&postcount=33) Devon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6960684&postcount=34) Barret Wallace (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6960772&postcount=35) Balbanes (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6961820&postcount=36) Lothan (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6962918&postcount=37) Let no one say they were not warned.
Aramil Dunskar 08-14-05, 06:15 PM	@Pitlords: I'll be in GenCon from Wed, till Monday of next week, so I will not be able to pitlord over any new fights. However I will be able to do the one I currently have, and it will be up tomorrow. -Aramil
MystErikEry 08-14-05, 06:23 PM	Hey, wait a sec! A lycanthrope's type and subtype do not change when they transform into animal form, unlike the Polymorph spell (as can be seen by the example lycanthropes). As a result, a wereoctopus does not gain the aquatic subtype while in octopus form. Thus, it breathes air and drowns in water... How odd is that!
nightbanegod 08-14-05, 07:03 PM	so im trying to figure out which would be cheaper... scribing 5 x scrolls of wish or crafting a tome clear thought.... GP vs EXP comparisons.... higher lvl :mage:'s are some of the most broken characters out there...
Vathelokai 08-14-05, 08:00 PM	SCRIBE SCROLL [ITEM CREATION] Prerequisite: Caster level 1st. Benefit: You can create a scroll of any spell that you know. Scribing a scroll takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. The base price of a scroll is its spell level x its caster level x 25 gp. To scribe a scroll, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one-half of this base price. Any scroll that stores a spell with a costly material component or an XP cost also carries a commensurate cost. In addition to the costs derived from the base price, you must expend the material component or pay the XP when scribing the scroll.Over the counter wish scroll wish 28,825 gp1 1 Assumes no material component cost in excess of 10,000 gp and no XP cost in excess of 5,000 XP. Wish spellUniversal Level: Sor/Wiz 9 Components: V, XP Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: See text Target, Effect, or Area: See text Duration: See text Saving Throw: See text Spell Resistance: Yes Wish is the mightiest spell a wizard or sorcerer can cast. By simply speaking aloud, you can alter reality to better suit you. Even wish, however, has its limits. Material Component: When a wish duplicates a spell with a material component that costs more than 10,000 gp, you must provide that component. XP Cost: The minimum XP cost for casting wish is 5,000 XP. When a wish duplicates a spell that has an XP cost, you must pay 5,000 XP or that cost, whichever is more. When a wish creates or improves a magic item, you must pay twice the normal XP cost for crafting or improving the item, plus an additional 5,000 XP. CRAFT WONDROUS ITEM [ITEM CREATION] Prerequisite: Caster level 3rd. Benefit: You can create any wondrous item whose prerequisites you meet. Enchanting a wondrous item takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its price. To enchant a wondrous item, you must spend 1/25 of the item’s price in XP and use up raw materials costing half of this price. You can also mend a broken wondrous item if it is one that you could make. Doing so costs half the XP, half the raw materials, and half the time it would take to craft that item in the first place. Some wondrous items incur extra costs in material components or XP, as noted in their descriptions. These costs are in addition to those derived from the item’s base price. You must pay such a cost to create an item or to mend a broken one. Blessed Book: This well-made tome is always of small size, typically no more than 12 inches tall, 8 inches wide, and 1 inch thick. All such books are durable, waterproof, bound with iron overlaid with silver, and locked. A wizard can fill the 1,000 pages of a blessed book with spells without paying the 25 gp per page material cost. This book is never found as randomly generated treasure with spells already inscribed in it. Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, secret page; Price 12,500 gp;Weight 1 lb. Secret page spellTransmutation Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 10 minutes Range: Touch Target: Page touched, up to 3 sq. ft. in size Duration: PermanentSaving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No Secret page alters the contents of a page so that they appear to be something entirely different. The text of a spell can be changed to show even another spell. Explosive runes or sepia snake sigil can be cast upon the secret page. A comprehend languages spell alone cannot reveal a secret page’s contents. You are able to reveal the original contents by speaking a special word. You can then peruse the actual page, and return it to its secret page form at will. You can also remove the spell by double repetition of the special word. A detect magic spell reveals dim magic on the page in question but does not reveal its true contents. True seeing reveals the presence of the hidden material but does not reveal the contents unless cast in combination with comprehend languages. A secret page spell can be dispelled, and the hidden writings can be destroyed by means of an erase spell. Material Component: Powdered herring scales and will-o’-wisp essence. Craft blessed book: 6,250 gp, secret page spell(3rd lv), craft wonderous item(3rd lv feat), (optional: 50 powdered red herrings, 50 vials of will o' wisp essence), 500 xp, 7 days Craft 5 scrolls of wish: (spell lv 9 x caster lv 17 x 25 gp) = 3825gp base price; (3825/2) x 5 = 9,532.5 gp, 153 xp x 5 = 765 + 5000 xp x 5 = 25,765 xp (this assumes you use the min xp for the wish spell), 20 days So, blessed book is cheaper and saves you 100,000gp in spell copying fees. Scrolls of wish seem cheap, but have a 5,153xp cost each. Dosn't seem so broken to me.
MystErikEry 08-14-05, 08:54 PM	Um... #1) He asked about the split between casting Wish five times (for a +5 inherent bonus to Int) or crafting a Tome of Clear Thought (+5). #2) He said high level spellcasters are broken, not Wish spells :P I'm not sure which would be better. You can't create a Tome of Clear Thought until you're Level 17, though, due to the fact that you have to cast the spell yourself. If you purchased scrolls - which can currently be done at Level 16, although there are plans being made to limit the level of purchased expendables to ECL as well - then you would need a great deal of them, and they are extremely expensive. A Tome of Clear Thought +5 costs 137,500 gp, so would take 137 days to craft. So you'll need 137 Wish scrolls, or 28,825 * 137, or 3949025 gp. Add that to the crafting cost, and you are costing yourself 137 days of work (20 weeks), 3,955,275 gp, and 25,500 XP. Aside from that GP being entirely unobtainable, you wouldn't have 25,500 XP to spare until Level 17 anyway, so you wouldn't be able to make it at a lower level as it is (XP costs are paid immediately upon starting the project; if you can't meet it, you can't make it). At that point, it's a choice between (from best to worse, imho): Scribing 5x Wish Scrolls and casting them (72,062.5 gp, 5765 XP) Buying a Tome of Clear Thought (137,500 gp)... Casting Wish five times (25,000 XP) Crafting a Tome of Clear Thought (68,750 gp, 25,500 XP) Buying 5x Wish Scrolls and casting them (144,125 gp) Buying Wish Scrolls and casting them is worse than just getting a Tome of Clear Thought, and casting Wish five times is better than crafting your own Tome of Thought. Edit: Oh, I see that scribing a scroll makes you pay the XP cost as if you had cast the spell, anyway, even though you're already paying more for it due to the XP cost... That's odd o_O; Makes it useless to scribe XP-costing spells, basically, hm. I guess the best choice is likely a) casting Wish 5 times, or b) buying a Tome of Clear Thought.. o_O;
nightbanegod 08-14-05, 08:57 PM	i think that regardless of race... the wizards ability to add +5 inherent bonus to all abilities is still pretty broken. and if you build your character right before you can cast wish then you should only have to pay the GP for the first 5 wishes to pump Int... then you should be able to cast 5 wishes a day straight up... its nice being a :mage:
MystErikEry 08-14-05, 09:04 PM	25000 XP per stat isn't anything to scoff at... and from what I can tell, you can't do that until Epic levels, anyway. If you're just about to become Level 20, you'll have 190000 XP. Dropping down to 19 again (171000 XP) would give you 19000 XP. That isn't enough to cast Wish five times in a row, and you can't "delay" a levelup for a spell (only for item crafting, by RAW).
Iced 08-14-05, 09:55 PM	I have decided that there has been enough interest to start missions abroad. My campaign will start 3 weeks from next friday.
KerlanRayne 08-14-05, 10:24 PM	At that point, it's a choice between (from best to worse, imho): Scribing 5x Wish Scrolls and casting them (72,062.5 gp, 5765 XP) Buying a Tome of Clear Thought (137,500 gp)... Casting Wish five times (25,000 XP) Crafting a Tome of Clear Thought (68,750 gp, 25,500 XP) Buying 5x Wish Scrolls and casting them (144,125 gp)This is wrong. Crafting a Tome of Clear Thought costs 6,250 gp + 25,500 XP. Just check the DMG or SRD and see for yourself. When you use a spell that costs XP to create an item, the Market Price ONLY goes up by 5gp for each XP spent. The creation cost does not change. If you buy the tome, you are compensating the creator for the XP that he has lost. Crafting a scroll of wish costs 1,912.5 gp + 5,153 XP. 5 wish scrolls would cost 9,562.5 gp + 25,765 XP. It would be better, however, to scribe 4 and cast the last from memory. KerlanRayne
xanadu 08-14-05, 10:59 PM	xanadu, you're right on all accounts, including the silliness of the rule. the RAW as it stands, though, says it only works on "clubs". Bah :pbbbtt: I think you are right RAW. Can I make a case RAI :D
LLMadCow 08-15-05, 02:23 AM	The prisonlords fully intend to implement the following character sheet template before the next pairings. Streamlining Initiative (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6841099&postcount=4) Also be warned that the following characters have been reported to the prison. This list counts up to post 40 in the prison. If you don't fix these errors before next pairings prisonlords will put a violation on your rapsheet. Dunewalker (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6945346&postcount=12) Harvester #3 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6945777&postcount=13) Aeryn Valaer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6945910&postcount=15) Minesbiggarinyers (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6945999&postcount=16) Ch'ch'ili (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6946276&postcount=17) N'rik Hathindar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6946632&postcount=18) Skez Dreadfury (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6946852&postcount=19) Ormos Bhaenth (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6947031&postcount=20) Jodan Desho (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6947118&postcount=22) Vorag Grishnak (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6947241&postcount=23) Basil Arawn (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6947978&postcount=24) Lothan Laurel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6960307&postcount=30) Yasha Tankou (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6960399&postcount=31) Dagnal Undercut (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6960504&postcount=32) Loxlee (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6960629&postcount=33) Devon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6960684&postcount=34) Barret Wallace (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6960772&postcount=35) Balbanes (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6961820&postcount=36) Lothan (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6962918&postcount=37) Let no one say they were not warned. Prison Updates: The Rap Sheet will be updated every weekend. During the week, people are encouraged to post and respond to violations that they have discovered. If you find that a character has some problems, post a message here and notify the player. (See: Sample Initial Complaint Post) If the player replies and acknowledges a solution prior to the weekend update, and the character can not be updated due to fight status, a violation will not be awarded. If the problem is not fixed and/or acknowledged a violation will be awarded. (See: Sample Violation Post) Once a character has fought, the violation is expected to be resolved within 24 hours. After fixing a problem, inform the person who told you of the violation so that they can also respond accordingly. (See: Sample: Edited Initial Complaint Post) When the Rap Sheet is updated, a single post will be made at the end of the thread, notifying players of what changes have been made. Updates should typically take place on Sunday, although this is subject to change without warning; the Prisonlords weekend is considered to be Friday, Midnight EST - Sunday, Midnight EST. And.... Well, just go read the post! The long and the short of it is, I opened the thread up a bit late, but a few days earlier than the weekend. So, I am not going to be assigning *Violations* until next weekend, since that is when updates will be occurring. Please everyone, please read the format for posting and replying and editing posts. I rely on everyone here to help me keep up with changes. I cannot go and check on every single sheet every week to see if they have been updated, so this is how it is supposed to work: Step 1: Person 1 posts that Person 2 has a problem with their character sheet. Step 2: Person 2 posts an acknowledgement and fixes the problem. Step 3: Person 2 PMs/e-mails Person 1 that the violation has been corrected. Step 4: Person 1 returns to their initial post and edits it to place the words PROBLEM FIXED at the VERY TOP of the post. This way when I check the thread on the weekend, I go over the posts and see which posts do not have PROBLEM FIXED in the header and check out those characters. Make sense? So, please edit those sheets! LL
Snommelp 08-15-05, 03:54 AM	Howdy, y'all! I'm back. For your viewing and fighting pleasure, may I present Sam. I'd be much obliged if you could check him out, make sure I didn't make any mistakes. I may be a bit rusty.
Caterane 08-15-05, 03:56 AM	Howdy, y'all! I'm back. For your viewing and fighting pleasure, may I present Sam. I'd be much obliged if you could check him out, make sure I didn't make any mistakes. I may be a bit rusty. Hey, welcome back! I have those PCs on my disk. Wanna reactivate one? Snomm Elp "The Waist-High Fist" (Snommelp) [Power: 971 (694); 2 won, 5 lost] Boriux Lamech (Snommelp) [Power: 1724 (862); 0 won, 2 lost] Gablim Utye (Snommelp) [Power: 1091 (1091); 1 won, 0 lost] Don Quixote de la Mancha (Snommelp) [Power: 1260 (900); 3 won, 3 lost] Cedric Fischer (Snommelp) [Power: 971 (694); 0 won, 4 lost] [Q:1]
Snommelp 08-15-05, 03:59 AM	Hey, welcome back! I have those PCs on my disk. Wanna reactivate one? Snomm Elp "The Waist-High Fist" (Snommelp) [Power: 971 (694); 2 won, 5 lost] Boriux Lamech (Snommelp) [Power: 1724 (862); 0 won, 2 lost] Gablim Utye (Snommelp) [Power: 1091 (1091); 1 won, 0 lost] Don Quixote de la Mancha (Snommelp) [Power: 1260 (900); 3 won, 3 lost] Cedric Fischer (Snommelp) [Power: 971 (694); 0 won, 4 lost] [Q:1] You know, it's tempting, but I think I'm going to start fresh. By the way, what happened to the RP thread? Lack of interest?
Caterane 08-15-05, 04:08 AM	We'll soon have something MUCH better. You'll love it, I promise :)
Pitlords 08-15-05, 04:52 AM	Huan's story has been added to the Tales of Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4037301). He gains 3° for this story (I've increased the credit reward for stories that enter the Tales). Many have asked me about a concrete definition of stories and rewards. I wanted to wait until the World thread is up but since that might take some more weeks I will define it provisionally now. A story for an arena fight should add to the World of Gladius, and enrichen it. If you 'just' (don't want to downplay it!!) describe how two guys swing at each other, this is surely entertaining but doesn't advance the world. Stories should be just that: stories. I intend to make the coco much less focused on the arena roleplay-wise but turn it more into an interactive living world. Arena fights remain, but can now be reduced to a technicality and your character need not be a gladiator just because he's on the roster and technically fighting in the arena. All of my characters are examples for that. Therefore, if you write a story, you can have it take place somewhere else. In the city of Gladius or in another city, in the wilderness, a dungeon, on another plane, whereever you want your story to happen, and of course, if you write an outstanding story about the arena, it will be rewarded too (but it should be equal in quality and length to other stories). That way, every story you write adds to the world of Gladius once the thread is up. Your story took place in a jungle region and you described an eery mysterious dungeon in its center? Be assured that this dungeon will soon appear in the appropriate regional entry of the World thread. This type of story is worth 1° but you may get more, depending on the length and quality of the story. For stories like the Deepstone Squad, or Ancient Evils - Part IV, you will earn MUCH more credits. Once the world thread is up and running, I will give a more detailed explanation. In fact, your stories will be the lifeblood of this thread.
Sindorin 08-15-05, 07:02 AM	Well, as many of you may have noticed, my heart is not in this anymore. I'm leaving to take a break from this, as I am not sure that I like the direction that this place is heading in. I may come back after I build up some enthusiasm. Later kids, ~Sindorin
sloisel 08-15-05, 07:31 AM	I intend to make the coco much less focused on the arena roleplay-wise but turn it more into an interactive living world. Some of us like the arena setting! I send Xanadu a story "in the old style" for Buttmunch vs Eiletha Surion (Kaigan), will that still be worth a credit? Sebastien Loisel
michael_noah 08-15-05, 09:14 AM	I'm with sloisel. I think the reason that the CoCo has done so amazingly well in its tenure is that it is about simple, core arena combat. The roleplay, etc. has always been a nice addition, not the main attraction, at least as far as I see it. I'm not sure that all the things being added on, or being changed, are good for it. Arena combat and great vision regarding the rules of DnD are the reasons I so recently became a pitlord. It may be that we're in the minority though...
xanadu 08-15-05, 09:42 AM	The arena is still there! Pitlords just wants to make CoCo more than just the arena.
michael_noah 08-15-05, 09:50 AM	I realize that the arena is still there. I am one of those folks, though, that needs to find every single item in a video game. If there is all this other stuff out there that I don't want to do, it makes doing "just" the arena less attractive. Adding roleplaying elements really won't detract from anything, I don't think. It's more the things like house-ruling ways for skills to make you money that turn me off. I want to make characters less and less as these things are added, because I don't want to partake of them, and that means that others will have an advantage over me.
Caterane 08-15-05, 09:51 AM	I think some of you misunderstood me. The technical procedure will always be there: You have a character and he fights others in the arena. What I intend to do is to increase the roleplaying around it. By default (ie no background) your character is a gladiator in Gladius who earns money by fighting in the arena. But for those who want a different character background, we will have a solid base for that. This basis are the stories that take place outside the arena on the one hand, and the World thread that finally puts the coco into a concrete world with defined locations (invented by players in stories). All that adds to this board without taking anything away. There's no need to be worried. @Michael: you can freely choose not to use the new skills. It won't be game-breaking. They have invested their skill points in profession, you in hide; they get gather information to buy items, you pitlord fights, and so on. Please note that the Classic coco was such a skeleton arena with almost no functions other than the 1 vs 1 battles. We had like 4 characters per league, with the ECL 3 league perhaps being at 8-10 PCs at the most. The coco wouldn't have survived.
NiQil 08-15-05, 11:27 AM	One issue I have with these changes is specifically with your new guidelines for the stories. Mandating how a story should be written seems in very bad form. Rewarding stories that go above and beyond stories that are written with the arena as the setting is perfectly acceptable. But telling people they can't write about the arena anymore does nothing more than remove even more focus from the arena. The arena is, and should remain (in my opinion), the focus of Gladius. I, personally, *prefer the stories to be set in the arena, because I enjoy seeing the stories correlate what I see in the fight posting into a story. Mandating that this no longer happen does nothing more than take away options, which seems to be entirely contradictory to what your goal is...that being to give *more options. If you want to see more stories set in other places, then up the rewards for those stories to encourage it. But taking away everyone's option of writing a story set in the arena, with the intent to do nothing more than give a little flash and pinache to a battle, seems to be counterproductive. Not everyone is a great writer like Huan (great story, BTW). Some do it just so they can earn credits. Others do it just because they enjoy writing, even if they aren't the best storytellers (no offense meant to anyone). If you feel that you want to make stories more meaningful to the world rather than just having it be about the arena, great. Reward stories that do that more than stories that don't. But if someone takes the time and effort to write a story set in the arena, and it does nothing more than turning a round by round explanation of rolls into something that flows and reads like a battle, should we really punish them for that by saying they are no longer going to be rewarded for their efforts?
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 12:07 PM	Again, this post seems to have been lost in the shuffle. Since this actually matters to my character in a few weeks - can I get an answer? This post seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle about the tattoos - anyone have an answer? Originally Posted by TelinArtho If you are on campaign and you have non-class allies with you, you get an xp penalty just like in the arena. If you buy a mule (or some other load-carrying beast), that is not going to be used for battle, but just as a means of carrying things - will this apply a) towards the maximum number of allies available to be brought with you? b) towards the xp penalty. The reason I ask is because Sir Valkin is going to be going on campaign soon and having a pack horse to carry non-vitals would seem reasonable. However, since he already rides a horse, it might not even be an option. thanks /d
NiQil 08-15-05, 12:09 PM	Again, this post seems to have been lost in the shuffle. Since this actually matters to my character in a few weeks - can I get an answer? I would recommend sending this question as a PM to Cat, since it has gotten lost twice.
Caterane 08-15-05, 12:10 PM	@NiQil: You were one of those who asked me to clarify storywriting, and here I did. Note that you can STILL write stories for the arena and get the credit. It just has to be now similar and equal to stories provided by others. @Telin: No, the mule or your dire elephant that doesn't help in the fight does not count in your rewards.
NiQil 08-15-05, 12:16 PM	@NiQil: You were one of those who asked me to clarify storywriting, and here I did. Note that you can STILL write stories for the arena and get the credit. It just has to be now similar and equal to stories provided by others. You are correct, I did ask for it. But in your other post, you made it sound as if setting stories in the arena was being banned altogether. *That was the reason for my concern. I don't know about others, but I am not all that talented at taking something that was set in one place and changing everything around to make it look like it was set somewhere else. I am glad to see that this is not something I will have to be overly concerned with. Thank you for the clarification.
TelinArtho 08-15-05, 12:19 PM	@Cat - thanks for the reply. @NiQil - I kept bumping the post because, in general, I assume that it is an answer that could be used by others and the response could have been debatable. I also try to avoid sending PMs to Cat because I assume he gets more than his fair share... Anyway, sounds like Sir Valkin gets to buy a pack mule so he can still move at full speed on his horse for the campaign he's going on... /d
Pitlords 08-15-05, 12:33 PM	@NiQil: Edited the announcement. Please read it again and tell me if it's more to your liking.
NiQil 08-15-05, 12:38 PM	@NiQil: Edited the announcement. Please read it again and tell me if it's more to your liking. That is much clearer. Definately takes care of my concerns.
Altaris13 08-15-05, 12:41 PM	I cannot seem to find the rules here at the CoCo on buying stones/scrolls of higher manifester/caster level than you. I recall seeing it somewhere, but now I can't find it. :( Will someone point me to the right spot? I'd like to get a couple stones of 'blah' for Mini, but she is only ML1 and the powers I'd like to buy are either Power Level 2 or 3, which means ML3 & 5 respectively.
McJarvis 08-15-05, 12:44 PM	I'm positive that every single bone in my body hurts right now. I'm back from the trip. Probably will get around to doing stuff for CoCo again tomorrow. I've missed ya'll. hi everyone!
Pitlords 08-15-05, 12:45 PM	I cannot seem to find the rules here at the CoCo on buying stones/scrolls of higher manifester/caster level than you. I recall seeing it somewhere, but now I can't find it. :( Will someone point me to the right spot? I'd like to get a couple stones of 'blah' for Mini, but she is only ML1 and the powers I'd like to buy are either Power Level 2 or 3, which means ML3 & 5 respectively. Your HD or class levels do not matter; only your ECL counts. That is your HD plus LA. Mini is ECL 3. The current rule is that you can buy scrolls or stones of a CL/ML up to your ECL+2. If you want to buy even higher stones/scrolls you have to pay credits in the Blackmarket (see there). Note that we're currently discussing to lower the cap to ML/CL = ECL.
NiQil 08-15-05, 12:46 PM	I cannot seem to find the rules here at the CoCo on buying stones/scrolls of higher manifester/caster level than you. I recall seeing it somewhere, but now I can't find it. :( Will someone point me to the right spot? I'd like to get a couple stones of 'blah' for Mini, but she is only ML1 and the powers I'd like to buy are either Power Level 2 or 3, which means ML3 & 5 respectively. The current rule is ECL+2, meaning up to level 5 in the case of Mini. The information can be found here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6467150 It is listed under the topic Gladius Market: What can I buy? Go just past the part of that section that talks about adding the elite array to mount/cohorts.
McJarvis 08-15-05, 12:48 PM	@Cat: Have you ever heard the song "Harvester of Sorrow" by Metallica? Seems very fitting for your character lineup :) I'm listening to it while reading your fights...haha
Altaris13 08-15-05, 12:56 PM	@Cat & NiQil: Thanks a bunch! EDIT: To manifest a power above your "powers known level" you have to make manifester level checks, right? Or is it concentration checks? My head hurts today and its hard to think straight. :( I'm staring at the rules and they're not making any sense at the moment. :weep:
Caterane 08-15-05, 01:01 PM	@Mc: I'm no heavy metal fan but I've heard that song once. I tihnk eery organ music would be more fitting for the Harvester. Or the Soulreaver 1 Soundtracks!! All of them. @Altaris: Manifester level check.
xanadu 08-15-05, 01:03 PM	I hearby nominate Luni as Attorney general of Gladius
NiQil 08-15-05, 01:05 PM	I always pictured the Harvester's theme music to be a mix between Darth Vader's march music and the sounds that Jason Vorhees kills by LOL
Altaris13 08-15-05, 01:24 PM	OK. I want to be sure I'm doing this right today. Power Stone of Energy Bolt (Power Level 3, ML5) 3x5x25 = 375gp cost PS of Energy Push (PL2,ML5, augmented 2pp) 3x5x25= 375gp PL goes up to 3 due to increased ML for augmentation. This also costs no credits, right? Both stones use ML5 for all ML-based effects too, correct?
xanadu 08-15-05, 01:47 PM	OK. I want to be sure I'm doing this right today. Power Stone of Energy Bolt (Power Level 3, ML5) 3x5x25 = 375gp cost PS of Energy Push (PL2,ML5, augmented 2pp) 3x5x25= 375gp PL goes up to 3 due to increased ML for augmentation. This also costs no credits, right? Both stones use ML5 for all ML-based effects too, correct? This looks correct.
Altaris13 08-15-05, 02:09 PM	Cool. Much thanks Cat, NiQIl & Xan!!
King Uther 08-15-05, 02:54 PM	@ Pitlords Well, I have something I would like to change about Virgo. I took the feat Narrow Mind when I girst made him, not knowing I could pre-buff Psionic Focus. But it got used in a fight. It wouldn't have affected it, but nonetheless it was used technically. Can I change it?
Tellish_of_Ket 08-15-05, 03:00 PM	@ Pitlords Well, I have something I would like to change about Virgo. I took the feat Narrow Mind when I girst made him, not knowing I could pre-buff Psionic Focus. But it got used in a fight. It wouldn't have affected it, but nonetheless it was used technically. Can I change it? Personally, i don't see why you couldn't. I'd just chalk it up as a misunderstanding, change the feat and live a better life. lol But that's just my opinion though. -ToK
Altaris13 08-15-05, 03:12 PM	I'm not on the Coucil of Elders, but as a Pitlord, I think Uther's request is very reasonable.
michael_noah 08-15-05, 03:31 PM	this is a sticking point elsewhere, so I'm not sure how it's been ruled in CoCo: can monks take Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike)?
NiQil 08-15-05, 03:35 PM	this is a sticking point elsewhere, so I'm not sure how it's been ruled in CoCo: can monks take Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike)? <running and hiding from the debate that this question is going to cause>
xanadu 08-15-05, 03:36 PM	this is a sticking point elsewhere, so I'm not sure how it's been ruled in CoCo: can monks take Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike)? Why dont you join the half-dozen or so 10 page threads on this topic in the regular forms :)
michael_noah 08-15-05, 03:38 PM	Why dont you join the half-dozen or so 10 page threads on this topic in the regular forms :) I'm not asking for a debate, I just want to know what the rule here is. Unless you want a debate...
NiQil 08-15-05, 03:39 PM	I'm not asking for a debate, I just want to know what the rule here is. Unless you want a debate... No....NO DEBATE LOL. I ran and hid because I know this will cause one.
GuardianAngel 08-15-05, 03:39 PM	Question how do I give equipment to a monster for a battle? How much gp value do I give? Any item allowed by the CoCo rules? Does the PC get all the equipment afterwards? Does this equal his +900gp if he wins? If he dies does tha mean he dies permently? Just some questions before hand I had makeing up the Hound Archon right now.
xanadu 08-15-05, 03:43 PM	I'm not asking for a debate, I just want to know what the rule here is. The only issue I recall regarding monks is whether or not 1/2 giants get to be one sized larger. So it looks like a debate may be necessary :D
Mind Rogue 08-15-05, 03:44 PM	NiQil, I think you are underestimating the power of this question. I've seen one thread on the topic reach to something like 25 pages. I don't know what the official ruling on CoCo is though.
michael_noah 08-15-05, 03:46 PM	The only issue I recall regarding monks is whether or not 1/2 giants get to be one sized larger. So it looks like a debate may be necessary :D If I recall correctly, this was answered in the latest FAQ. It was also never a question, since the half-giant entry says nothing at all about raising unarmed damage.
MystErikEry 08-15-05, 03:47 PM	The ruling for INA on Monks at the CoCo should likely be the same that CustServ has given time after time again: no, Monks cannot take INA, because their unarmed strikes are only considered natural weapons for the purpose of spells and (other magical) effects.
xanadu 08-15-05, 03:47 PM	Question how do I give equipment to a monster for a battle? How much gp value do I give? Any item allowed by the CoCo rules? Does the PC get all the equipment afterwards? Does this equal his +900gp if he wins? If he dies does tha mean he dies permently? Just some questions before hand I had makeing up the Hound Archon right now. 1) interesting question. Its an ECL 3 fight but Pitlords rolled an ECL 4 enocunter. best ask him. 2) i believe yes 3) no 4) no, he starts with what he starts regardless of the fight's outcome 5) irrelevant, he wont be coming back to Gladius. Just equip him in a manner which makes sense, allowing him to respond to a variety of opponents and dangers.
michael_noah 08-15-05, 03:51 PM	The ruling for INA on Monks at the CoCo should likely be the same that CustServ has given time after time again: no, Monks cannot take INA, because their unarmed strikes are only considered natural weapons for the purpose of spells and (other magical) effects. This is the answer that I'm expecting. I'll refrain from voicing my opinion on the matter, though I don't like the insertion of the parenthetical in what is otherwise a quote from the rulebook.
MystErikEry 08-15-05, 04:01 PM	This is the answer that I'm expecting. I'll refrain from voicing my opinion on the matter, though I don't like the insertion of the parenthetical in what is otherwise a quote from the rulebook. The trouble is that "effect" is never described anywhere except in the case of "Spells" and if you take effect to mean it's meaning in english, feats have effects, but aren't effects themselves, so the Monk would not qualify for the feat. They simply had said "spells and effects" in order to cover spell-like abilities, which are not technically spells but DO have effects (as they have an Effect line just like spells do, basically). My only surprise is that it hasn't been errata'd or put in the FAQ for clarification... I guess they thought it was pretty common sense. o_o; Unarmed strike is never a true natural weapon. Monks were only meant to benefit from spells that normally only affected natural weapons, as if they were... Anyway, I personally would stick with what CustServ has said over and over. :P
Vathelokai 08-15-05, 04:32 PM	I hearby nominate Luni as Attorney general of Gladius I second the vote :D
Vathelokai 08-15-05, 04:34 PM	this is a sticking point elsewhere, so I'm not sure how it's been ruled in CoCo: can monks take Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike)? Because the improved damage is from a feat and not 'natural' I don't believe you can take it. However, as noted in other parts, you could make a monster with monk lvs., and as long as it had a natural att. that did dmg. (as opposed to subdual damage) then it would be alright.
Pittbull 08-15-05, 04:41 PM	I'm sure not sure about the correct official ruling, but in the old CoCo we allowed monks to take the Improved Natural Attack-feat. Just take a look to old-version monks like Brackin Bonesnapper (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2723577). I think this special ruling is still work. @CAT: ?????? Hasn't there been a poll about this issue, about a year ago?
Gonbow 08-15-05, 04:42 PM	Because the improved damage is from a feat and not 'natural' I don't believe you can take it. However, as noted in other parts, you could make a monster with monk lvs., and as long as it had a natural att. that did dmg. (as opposed to subdual damage) then it would be alright. Yes and no. The monsters natural attack of choice would indeed be enhanced by the feat, but it would be completely seperate from the monk levels. A monks unarmed strike CANNOT be made with a natural weapon the monk already possesses. This is in the FAQ under the woefully small section about monks.
michael_noah 08-15-05, 04:44 PM	please please please no debate! I know that it's contested, and I know all the arguments (and you all probably do too), let's just see what the ruling is.
Pittbull 08-15-05, 04:46 PM	There is the poll (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=197368)!
michael_noah 08-15-05, 04:51 PM	Alright, I'll assume that's the ruling until it gets re-opened.
Caterane 08-15-05, 05:40 PM	Oh right, the old INA poll. Can you remeber that Ray? LOL It was based on the argument that the term "effects" is not defined thus feats must be effects, and that since there is one example in the DMG where a creature had improved critical (unarmed strike) the same should be true for ina. Today, I still think this is nonsense but I don't mind anymore because monks can use a slight boost. You see what happens if we have a democracy here :D PS: I really wonder how Peter has voted in that poll ;)
Pittbull 08-15-05, 05:47 PM	I voted for NO!
Altaris13 08-15-05, 05:50 PM	I voted for NO! And I /would/ vote for NO!
MystErikEry 08-15-05, 06:04 PM	I think, by RAW and RAI (as shown by the numerous similar responses from CustServ) that monks should not be able to take INA. However, it's not unbalanced to let them. CoCo is allowed to make some houserules, I guess, especially those that help balance things a little, or somesuch. I do have another question, though! QUESTION: Would I qualify for Improved Grapple if I had a Natural Weapon (I mean, an actual Natural Weapon) without having to take Improved Unarmed Strike (since my unarmed attack is already dealing lethal damage and not provoking an Attack of Opportunity already) ?
Gonbow 08-15-05, 06:10 PM	QUESTION: Would I qualify for Improved Grapple if I had a Natural Weapon (I mean, an actual Natural Weapon) without having to take Improved Unarmed Strike (since my unarmed attack is already dealing lethal damage and not provoking an Attack of Opportunity already) ? Yes, you do qualify. You also qualify for Deflect Arrows as well. As per my note about Merman though, be warned that you do not get your natural weapon attack pattern while grappling, you are limited to one 'action' per iterative attack your BAB would provide you. This is sometimes an improvement (A grappling dragon could bite you multiple times), sometimes a hinderance (A grappling kraken can only tentacle lash you twice as opposed to 8 times).
Pittbull 08-15-05, 06:11 PM	Cat pointed out, that you are allowed to take improved grapple if you have natural attacks, some time ago.
Luni 08-15-05, 06:18 PM	I hearby nominate Luni as Attorney general of Gladius How does my name get up there?
MystErikEry 08-15-05, 06:20 PM	Both of those confirmed a number of things I needed to know for my wereoctopus character ^_^ Thank you very much. It seems the best thing for him to do would be to attack normally with all of his tentacles, and on the last hit (well, one of the last; depends on how many of them are hitting; if he's missing lots, probably grapple on the second successful hit!) grapple the enemy for extra constriction damage. Then, squeeze them each turn for damage and then constriction damage, and if they happen to escape the grapple, repeat :D (A smart enemy would stay grappled, in most cases, unless they needed to be free to wield their weapons/spells...) What this means, basically, is that I can go with Run instead of Improved Natural Attack >_> Or go with something else equally fun ^_^
Tellish_of_Ket 08-15-05, 06:47 PM	Oh right, the old INA poll. Can you remeber that Ray? LOL It was based on the argument that the term "effects" is not defined thus feats must be effects, and that since there is one example in the DMG where a creature had improved critical (unarmed strike) the same should be true for ina. Today, I still think this is nonsense but I don't mind anymore because monks can use a slight boost. You see what happens if we have a democracy here :D PS: I really wonder how Peter has voted in that poll ;) Oh yea. Please let us not ressurect this headache. IMO, it's NO!!!! for both RAW and RAI. I don't mind it staying the same either. The damage has been done. Let sleeping dogs lie. -ToK
xanadu 08-15-05, 07:48 PM	How does my name get up there? Look at the prison thread. Your incarcerating gladiators left and right :D
Altaris13 08-15-05, 07:51 PM	NiQil has audited a number of characters already. He has been very proactive in helping us keep our PCs in-line. Even if the auditing system is not yet "in place" I strongly think that he should get the credits that he deserves. :clap: Kudos to you NiQil, and thanks for helping me with Aeryn & Minesbiggerinyers. :clap:
xanadu 08-15-05, 08:01 PM	Yes, you do qualify. You also qualify for Deflect Arrows as well. As per my note about Merman though, be warned that you do not get your natural weapon attack pattern while grappling, you are limited to one 'action' per iterative attack your BAB would provide you. This is sometimes an improvement (A grappling dragon could bite you multiple times), sometimes a hinderance (A grappling kraken can only tentacle lash you twice as opposed to 8 times). This is both right and wrong. If a monster wants to damage an opponent with an opposed grapple check, then Gonbow is correct. However, another option is to forgo grapple checks and use natural weapons to attack and damage your opponent. According to Rules of the game: Attack Your Opponent: You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a -4 penalty on such attacks. You can't attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons. If you have multiple natural weapons, however, you can use all of them while grappling. In many cases, though, you're better off making an opposed grapple check to damage your opponent rather than making an attack with a natural weapon (see the section on damaging your opponent for details). Mer-Man is better off using all his natural weapons with the -4 modifier.
Gonbow 08-15-05, 08:06 PM	Alright, I'll qualify my earlier statement, because yes Mer-man would be better off attacking with all of his natural weapons at -4, but he cant. He can attack with one, once and -4, then with the rakes (Also at -4 maybe, but I'm not sure about that). And why? Because of this. If You’re Grappling When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses And yes, those actions it lists are the only actions you can perform, you'll note the lack of full attack, eh? You can perform one for every iterative attack you would normally be entitled to; Both Merman and Virgo are entitled to one, but Mer-man gets 2 extra from his special ability, so he has a slight advantage, but not as much as he had before.
xanadu 08-15-05, 08:20 PM	Well, if somebody has a +20 BAB, according to what you posted, they could get 4 attacks. Getting 4 attacks in one round is a pretty good definition of full attack so I believe full attack is implied in the SRD reference you quoted. Moreover, because Skip's rules of the game specifically say you can execute a full attack with all natural weapons, that lends much creedence to the implication. Monks have consistently flurried and monsters using their full attack routines in CoCo grapples. As Skip's rules of the game confirm this is ok, I will allow both Virgo to flurry and Mer-Man to use their grapple tactics.
Gonbow 08-15-05, 08:36 PM	Well, if somebody has a +20 BAB, according to what you posted, they could get 4 attacks. Getting 4 attacks in one round is a pretty good definition of full attack so I believe full attack is implied in the SRD reference you quoted. Moreover, because Skip's rules of the game specifically say you can execute a full attack with all natural weapons, that lends much creedence to the implication. Monks have consistently flurried and monsters using their full attack routines in CoCo grapples. As Skip's rules of the game confirm this is ok, I will allow both Virgo to flurry and Mer-Man to use their grapple tactics. Well, I generally don't consider implied good enough, I tend towards RAW more often then not, but that is just my opinion. Right you are... Skip has been wrong before (and changed his opinion on things), but if we're going to consider him an authority on these things (which I do consider him, since I qouted him earlier on a different matter) we should follow what he says rather than picking and choosing. Plus, since I have a monk and I'm planning to have a monster character, the flurry of blows and natural weapons bit does help my character(s) ^_^
MystErikEry 08-15-05, 11:31 PM	According to Skip's article, you can make normal attacks as a monster... I mean, if you're a giant octopus and have someone grappled, it says that it could make eight tentacle attacks at -4. However, the question is: if I also use my BAB to damage the enemy, how many times can I do that? Does it use up one of my natural weapon attacks for that round? U_U *is confused*
Gonbow 08-15-05, 11:51 PM	According to Skip's article, you can make normal attacks as a monster... I mean, if you're a giant octopus and have someone grappled, it says that it could make eight tentacle attacks at -4. However, the question is: if I also use my BAB to damage the enemy, how many times can I do that? Does it use up one of my natural weapon attacks for that round? U_U *is confused* Yes, if we are following the article (which we seem to be doing), you can make 8 attacks at -4. You can use one of your natural weapon attacks to perform a damage your enemy instead, if you wish. Thus you would have 8 damage an enemy using normal grapple checks and normal grapple damage for your size (modified by being a monk/etc).
MystErikEry 08-16-05, 12:21 AM	Yes, if we are following the article (which we seem to be doing), you can make 8 attacks at -4. You can use one of your natural weapon attacks to perform a damage your enemy instead, if you wish. Thus you would have 8 damage an enemy using normal grapple checks and normal grapple damage for your size (modified by being a monk/etc). It wouldn't do grapple damage based on the natural weapon used, as said by Skip? Also, wouldn't a Giant Octopus then be able to 'damage an enemy' eight times... at full BAB ? I thought it was already clear that we were only allowing 'damage an enemy' actions based on BAB, not on how many natural weapons you get to attack with...
Gonbow 08-16-05, 12:24 AM	It wouldn't do grapple damage based on the natural weapon used, as said by Skip? Also, wouldn't a Giant Octopus then be able to 'damage an enemy' eight times... at full BAB ? I thought it was already clear that we were only allowing 'damage an enemy' actions based on BAB, not on how many natural weapons you get to attack with... Eh? Whatever he said is what it is. I wasn't looking at the article when I responed. At full grapple check, yes. Nothing is terribly clear, aside from how Xanadu is running his fight. I'd like an official statement by Pitlords or a vote from the council on how to handle natural weapons in a grapple, personally.
MystErikEry 08-16-05, 12:35 AM	Giant Octopus (from an ECL 12 Lycanthrope who would have +7/+2 BAB at that point) with Improved Natural Attack and 30 Strength... Tentacle: 1d6+10 damage. Attack Bonus: +17. Bite: 1d8+5 damage. Attack Bonus: +12. Constriction damage: 2d8+6 If he's grappled someone, and uses the "damage an opponent" action nine times... 1d6++2d8+16 at +17 eight times, and 3d8+11 once at +12... or 9d6+19d8+149 damage in one round... ?
Pauper 08-16-05, 01:08 AM	At first, Alac spent his time prior to his assigned arena fight in the tavern because it seemed to be the thing to do. Absorbing the energy of the patrons, the excited arguments over which gladiator would triumph over whom, filled Alac with an energy and an anticipation for the battle to come. In time, that energy seemed lost - not that the patrons still didn't argue and joke with one another, but Alac slowly seemed to lose his ability to tune in to that excitement. Little by little, it seemed that the excitement of visiting the tavern was replaced by the anticipation of downing that single mug of stout he allowed himself before each fight. Today, he stared into the empty mug and considered ordering another. The noise of the tavern seemed to subside for a moment, allowing a snippet of a nearby conversation to reach Alac's ears. "I tell ya," spoke a gruff voice with a strong Dwarven accent, "that Dagnal is a force. A force! Even that new Harvester should be quakin' at the thought of facin' him." The dwarf's companion muttered something in a subdued tone, and Alac quietly shifted down a couple of empty seats at the bar to get a better sense of the conversation. The dwarf was speaking again. "Mind you, it'll be a tougher fight than he's had. A couple of pantywaist elves. Bah! At least if you're going to send an elf into the arena, make it one of those groo...those grui...eh..." The dwarf's companion spoke again, this time barely audible over the crowd. "A gruagach?" He had a wistful tone, halfling-like in its pacing. The dwarf belched, having taken advantage of his pronunciation lapse to wet his whistle. "Aye, one of them wild elves. Now there's somethin' to see - one of them wild elves with the branches in his hair. There's a worthy fight. Not like these Nimbus-blasted high elves with their fancy spellcasting and flimsy bows who won't even stand to yer face. I hope this Horseman has more balls than that Pale Rider - all he does is gallop around. Give me a good one-man cavalry charge any day!" The dwarf cackled and audibly slurped another slug from his tankard. "What about the mage?" his companion asked. The dwarf seemed to choke for a moment. "That stripling with the puff-of-smoke tactics? Bah! He's been in more fights than both of his opponents put together and hasn't shown me a thing. My money's on Dagnal, and if ye want to make a few coins you'd do the same. The Horseman might be a better bet if Dagnal wasn't free to target him from the get-go, but don't bother yerself about the wizard. He's got no chance." The halfling said nothing, and Alac was somehow both upset at the dwarf's words and glad he hadn't turned to make his presence known. Instead, he slipped off the barstool and left the tavern, headed for the arena. He prepared for the battle, as he'd done times before, but this time the dwarf's words echoed in the stone dressing chambers, or maybe only in Alac's head. They followed him to the now-familiar starting square as he waited for the signal from the arena master to begin. The dwarf's right, thought Alac, what am I even doing here? As soon as I see the Horseman, I'm going to surrender. What's the point? Something rustled through the arena, grazing Alac's skin and making goosebumps stand up on his bare arms. Do not give up so quickly, a voice in the breeze whispered to him. How will Good stand when it refuses to take the field against Evil? The horn sounded; the fight was underway. Alac sprinted toward the center of the arena, looking for the security of cover. He could hear the heavy armor of the dwarf and the sounds of a moving horse. He kept his head on a swivel and his mind open to any empathic urges from Feck, his bat familiar. As he passed through the center of the arena, Alac saw the biggest dwarf he'd ever seen. The dwarf looked back at him, sized him up and down, then snorted and moved on, out of sight. What? That's it? Alac had worried that the dwarf might have killed him on sight, just for the sport of it and to make matters easier for his opponent - to force the action, perhaps. He hadn't expected to be dismissed, even though the dwarf in the tavern had done exactly the same thing. Some tiny ember of the feeling that first brought him to Gladius flared deep within Alac, threatening to smoulder to life. He began following the dwarf, keeping his motions quick and quiet to try and foil the Horseman. Spotting the dwarf after a few moments, he fired off a cantrip, splashing the back of the dwarf's armor with acid. The dwarf simply moved on. Alac continued to pursue, sending another blob of acid into the dwarf. At any moment he expected the dwarf to turn and swat this gnat who was threatening the death of a thousand stings against him, but the dwarf simply moved on again, looking for cover. Watch him, though. Don't give him a chance to overbear you with that axe of his, Alac thought to no one in particular. Feck rustled on his shoulder, sensing his master's concern. Again spotting the dwarf through a gap in the columns, Alac fired off another blob of acid, which splashed against the column, missing the dwarf. That's when the Horseman finally came into view. Alac saw it in the dwarf's eyes and knew that the dwarf wasn't going to bother trying to deal with him. Instead, the dwarf cast away his weapon and shield, drew a wicked-looking flail as he rushed at the Horseman, and executed a perfect chain-assisted disarm on the Horseman's lance. The strange breeze returned, whispering to Alac again: Evil will sometimes take actions that benefit us as well. But we must be present in the field to take advantage. Another glob of acid into the dwarf. The Horseman, clearly wanting to engage Alac but unwilling to ignore the massive dwarf bearing down on him decided to try to complete what Alac had begun, but his hasty bowshot missed cleanly, possibly hindered by the flail swinging into him as he tried to wheel his horse away. The dwarf pursued, pressing the attack on his true target. Alac pursued like a forgotten insect, sending Feck to the air briefly to keep track of the dwarf's position. Coming around another set of pillars, Alac could see the Horseman sorely pressed - the Horseman had drawn his own flail, and was directing his warhorse to join the attack. But the dwarf would not be denied, continuing to swing his own flail through the Horseman's space, connecting with the shaft of the Horseman's own flail, causing a temporary clinch. The Horseman escaped the clinch, wheeled and swung wildly, his horse screeching to try and land some damaging blow on the savagely pressing dwarf. Again the dwarf's flail swung, this time scoring a solid hit on the Horseman. The Horseman continued to struggle in return, though his mount finally landed a solid blow with one metal-shod hoof. Another acid splash spun through space, narrowly missing the single-minded dwarf. [OOC: Gonbow, you handled the 'firing into melee' penalty correctly by the RAW; IMO, the -4 is a penalty to Alac's attack and isn't even considered in the same category as the cover bonus to Dagnal's AC, thus they would 'stack'. Though if I were inclined to I'd argue that neither Dagnal nor the Horseman would be considered a 'friendly' character so the penalty shouldn't have applied.] Now finally showing the signs of his beating, the dwarf stood back a moment and began casting. Casting! Alac realized, Blast, he's a spellcaster as well! Whatever he tried, though, seemed to have no effect on the Horseman, who continued to press the attack, also to no effect. The buzz of prepared magic left Alac's mind as he fired yet another splash of acid at the dwarf - out of cantrips! A clean hit, and the dwarf teetering on the brink of death. Then, as if born of pure desperation, an awe-inspiring swing from the dwarf, clouting the Horseman and clearly hurting him badly. Alac grinned, realizing he needed a way to keep the engagement going - he moved in and fired off his obscuring mist. Let them stagger around in that a while, he thought, bringing his own training at the abbey to mind. Fighting in shadows and mist was second-nature to Alac, and he felt a surge as, for the first time, he realized he had a chance to come away victorious. A curse in some Giantish tongue greeted Alac's ears as the Horseman realized what had happened - he swung anyway, and the crash of armor striking the ground told Alac that the dwarf had been defeated. Smiling, remembering the blood leaking from beneath the half-giant's plate helmet, Alac cast his final arcane spell, hoping to finish off his opponent. A huge swoosh of air as the Horseman's flail swung crazily through the air told Alac that the mist was confusing his opponent, then the horse went still and both combatants seemed intent on listening for each other. Then, a sudden inspiration. Slapping his foot against the ground, then shifting to the side awaiting the approach of the armored horse - it would be easy enough to know when the opponent was close with all that metal jangling around. Dutifully, the Horseman came on, and Alac's touch, after a moment's pause, fell true, damaging the opponent. The Horseman's mace whooshed above Alac's head, missing, but the horse landed a lucky blow with an iron-shod hoof, hurting Alac, testing his resolve for the first time in the fight. No, not now. Not when I'm so close. Another reach with the last bit of energy from his spell. A sinking feeling as the touch flounders, then...a hit! The final spell energies drain into Horseman...and he still stirs! Hastily, nearly in a panic, Alac brings out his mace, knowing that his opponent was skilled enough to defeat a far better armored opponent than he. A swing with the flail...a shocking blow, nearly taking Alac down. Then, without warning, a crash of armor. He fell! He fell from his horse! I've done it! One last swing with the mace, and the battle, at last, was ended. He reached down and removed the Horseman's bloody helmet. Alac emerged from the mist, holding the helmet in his hand, then tossed it to the ground. The crowd gasped audibly - seemingly in shock - before erupting in wild cheers as the arcanist strode toward the now open exit. One final breath of breeze: Never give up, Alac. Never surrender. He was sure his smile was as wide as the gates of Gladius itself.
Gonbow 08-16-05, 01:44 AM	@MystErikEry Yes, because you have improved grab... Scary neh? Worth the LA for once ;) @Pauper Great story! I'll add this onto the fight and note that you should get the credit for it.
Caterane 08-16-05, 04:27 AM	You are probably confusing 'attack' and 'damage' an opponoment, both of which are options in a grapple. The damage option is the regular grapple check; the attack an opponoment is basically just like a normal melee attack routine at -4 in grapple. We've talked about that before and came to the conclusion that this is the way it works. We had many natural attack gladiators in the past who all did it that way; besides, it's pretty clear.
MystErikEry 08-16-05, 04:43 AM	You are probably confusing 'attack' and 'damage' an opponoment, both of which are options in a grapple. The damage option is the regular grapple check; the attack an opponoment is basically just like a normal melee attack routine at -4 in grapple. We've talked about that before and came to the conclusion that this is the way it works. We had many natural attack gladiators in the past who all did it that way; besides, it's pretty clear. Okay, but how many times can you make "the regular grapple check" ? If it's once per weapon, we're talking about the exact same damage, except with +25 instead of +17, due to Improved Grapple and Large size... Against the opponent's Grapple check, which will very often suck horribly when AC would be decent. o_o;
Caterane 08-16-05, 05:05 AM	It is based on your bab, for both attack and damage an opponent. The difference is that the latter uses grapple checks at your iterative bab, and the first one uses regular attack routines (with the exception of using TWF with light weapons), but also based on bab. Natural attacks are part of a creatures regular attack routine and do not interfere with the bab.
Pittbull 08-16-05, 05:44 AM	Giant Octopus (from an ECL 12 Lycanthrope who would have +7/+2 BAB at that point) with Improved Natural Attack and 30 Strength.. Please don't forget, that in ECL12 many opponents will have Freedom of Movement and then you can forget grappling at all. ;)
Vathelokai 08-16-05, 09:03 AM	What this means, basically, is that I can go with Run instead of Improved Natural Attack >_> Or go with something else equally fun ^_^ Have you checked out multi attack? All those extra attacks at -2 instead of -4?
Luni 08-16-05, 10:22 AM	For those of you taking the magic domain, don't forget to make sure you got the requisite Intelligence score to use those arcane scrolls.
Altaris13 08-16-05, 12:25 PM	Is there a thread that we can follow Quests & Campaigns current and proposed? (Other than pairings)
NiQil 08-16-05, 12:31 PM	Is there a thread that we can follow Quests & Campaigns current and proposed? (Other than pairings) Here
xanadu 08-16-05, 12:35 PM	I have created two new gladiators. I see nothing in the rules against this so I figured I'd ask. We have had quests with multiple gladiators before, would it be cool if I both these characters went on the same quest? I kind of evnsion them as a duo and think it would be neat to at least bring them into Gladius together. Also, would anyone be interested in questlording?
TelinArtho 08-16-05, 12:46 PM	I know there's at least one person (Erithmu) who has had a quest with 2 of his gladiators together - so I would assume its allowed. As to who can do it - I can - just send me a PM on what you want to do (I'd much rather do a quest with a purpose than to quest for fun...) /d
Tellish_of_Ket 08-16-05, 01:17 PM	For those of you taking the magic domain, don't forget to make sure you got the requisite Intelligence score to use those arcane scrolls. You really know how to crush someones hopes and dreams don't ya? lol. K, looks like i need to pick a new domain then, since my cleric has 10 int and can't use any scrolls. hahah. -ToK
Luni 08-16-05, 01:38 PM	Just buy a potion of Fox's Cunning.
xanadu 08-16-05, 01:52 PM	You really know how to crush someones hopes and dreams don't ya? lol. No, I think Luni just wants more opportunities to throw people in prison :D
Luni 08-16-05, 01:54 PM	No, I think Luni just wants more opportunities to throw people in prison :D LOL. Technically they aren't doing anything wrong. They just can't use the stuff they buy. I'm unsure whether to throw them in prison or not. Also, it would change their fights as well.... Though, it is probably a little late for that.
NiQil 08-16-05, 02:22 PM	@Cat As Luni pointed out, without the INT prereq, the Magic Domain is kinda useless to clerics. My cleric has it, but has never used it, since he has an INT of 10.. Is it cool if I remove it and put the Plant Domain in in it's place?
Altaris13 08-16-05, 02:22 PM	No, I think Luni just wants more opportunities to throw people in prison :D :heehee @NiQil: Thanks dude!
Altaris13 08-16-05, 02:23 PM	What does it take to start a guild/group/etc etc etc? I was thinking of trying to recruit some more reptilian peeps so go with Zassl & Minesbiggeranyers
Luni 08-16-05, 02:28 PM	@Cat As Luni pointed out, without the INT prereq, the Magic Domain is kinda useless to clerics. My cleric has it, but has never used it, since he has an INT of 10.. Is it cool if I remove it and put the Plant Domain in in it's place? You can still use arcane wands, NiQil. :) And all those nifty scrolls of Mage Hand.
NiQil 08-16-05, 02:31 PM	You can still use wand, NiQil. :) And all those nifty scrolls of Mage Hand. Hmmm....I also vote Luni into office. While the election is going on, let me run and crank out a rogue who specializiations in assassinations that I can introduce her to after she takes office LOL
NiQil 08-16-05, 02:35 PM	What does it take to start a guild/group/etc etc etc? I was thinking of trying to recruit some more reptilian peeps so go with Zassl & Minesbiggeranyers Oddly enough, I was toying with the same idea for the Order of Divine Might...good-aligned peeps...maybe requiring at least one level of a divine casting class....haven't thought it through yet....but the EHTC is getting a touch to cocky for my taste. :shifty:
NiQil 08-16-05, 02:40 PM	Yanno....I just realized....with Sindorin and Jindl gone, we only have 2 active Elders and Cat....wonder if anyone will get promoted...
Altaris13 08-16-05, 02:49 PM	Oddly enough, I was toying with the same idea for the Order of Divine Might...good-aligned peeps...maybe requiring at least one level of a divine casting class....haven't thought it through yet....but the EHTC is getting a touch to cocky for my taste. :shifty: Cocky? Cocky?! The audacity! The fellaciousness! The temerity! The daring! You, sir, are a pompous and odiferous ninny! :slaps NiQil with a white glove: A duel, I dare say, is required to defend the honor of my great and honest trade guild! :coughbullcough: :D
NiQil 08-16-05, 02:58 PM	Cocky? Cocky?! The audacity! The fellaciousness! The temerity! The daring! You, sir, are a pompous and odiferous ninny! :slaps NiQil with a white glove: A duel, I dare say, is required to defend the honor of my great and honest trade guild! :coughbullcough: :D :::coughcoughtimeandplacecoughcoughpicky ourfoefromtheordercoughhackcoughbutyerpa yingthecreditsbecauseIhavenonecoughcough :: Damn this cold....
Luni 08-16-05, 03:02 PM	Oddly enough, I was toying with the same idea for the Order of Divine Might...good-aligned peeps...maybe requiring at least one level of a divine casting class....haven't thought it through yet....but the EHTC is getting a touch to cocky for my taste. :shifty: NiQil, just start challenging the EHTC members to matches. Show them you mean business! Actually, I was planning on doing that myself when I create a Paladin.
NiQil 08-16-05, 03:05 PM	NiQil, just start challenging the EHTC members to matches. Show them you mean business! Actually, I was planning on doing that myself when I create a Paladin. Heh...I would....but alas...no credits...earning just enough to keep all 4 charactes active...but I figure if I start throwing down the gauntlet, they'll get tired of me calling them cowards and come challenge me LOL
Tellish_of_Ket 08-16-05, 03:07 PM	Just buy a potion of Fox's Cunning. I think i'll just sub it out since it hasn't been used, and save myself some coin and one action every battle. It's bad enough that clerics lose initiative 9 times out of 10, never mind giving my opponent another free turn, by drinking that pot. Besides, i'd then have to invest in something more permanent which would cost even more money. Not worth it to get access to a few wizard spells. At 10th level cleric i'd only just start casting fireballs doing 5d6. I think i can think of better things to do at 10th level cleric. -ToK
Luni 08-16-05, 03:10 PM	I don't blame you ToK. I was trying to build a cleric with the magic domain, but it was hard trying to find points to put into intelligence.
NiQil 08-16-05, 03:19 PM	Does anyone know where in the SRD I can find the list of deities? If it is even in there? Or if someone has a PHB handy, any chance of getting someone to PM me with the deity info out of it?
Luni 08-16-05, 03:22 PM	Deities are Intellectual Property and therefore not availabe in the SRD. As for copying them out, do you want just the good aligned ones?
NiQil 08-16-05, 03:36 PM	Deities are Intellectual Property and therefore not availabe in the SRD. As for copying them out, do you want just the good aligned ones? You read my mind...I was looking to maybe link my characters up with deities...<kicks SRD for not having intellectual property>
Altaris13 08-16-05, 03:40 PM	:::coughcoughtimeandplacecoughcoughpicky ourfoefromtheordercoughhackcoughbutyerpa yingthecreditsbecauseIhavenonecoughcough :: Damn this cold.... HAH! Trying to weasel out of it by claiming to be poor. Bad excuse, mate, bad excuse. Coward! :P ;)
NiQil 08-16-05, 03:42 PM	HAH! Trying to weasel out of it by claiming to be poor. Bad excuse, mate, bad excuse. Coward! :P ;) Not cowardly, but merely humble. The Order has always functioned from the generosity and donations of others. :D
Altaris13 08-16-05, 03:44 PM	Not cowardly, but merely humble. The Order has always functioned from the generosity and donations of others. :D :heehee I would pay the credits, but I want to campaign!!! Freakin' expensive at 5 cred's a character.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-16-05, 03:48 PM	:heehee I would pay the credits, but I want to campaign!!! Freakin' expensive at 5 cred's a character. Expensive? Not really. Try running a campaign for 6 continuous months. That's a lot of work. You get to join in the fun VERY cheaply for 5° for 6 months of playing. That's the best bargain around IMO. -ToK
sloisel 08-16-05, 04:01 PM	What happened to Moherajikuyx? Sebastien Loisel
NiQil 08-16-05, 04:11 PM	What happened to Moherajikuyx? Sebastien Loisel :thinks: :whatsthis :looloo:
xanadu 08-16-05, 04:13 PM	Heh...I would....but alas...no credits...earning just enough to keep all 4 charactes active...but I figure if I start throwing down the gauntlet, they'll get tired of me calling them cowards and come challenge me LOL This can be arranged you know ;)
NiQil 08-16-05, 04:19 PM	This can be arranged you know ;) The Order is always ready to defend against the wicked. We've got the hammer and the nails.
Altaris13 08-16-05, 04:26 PM	Expensive? Not really. Try running a campaign for 6 continuous months. That's a lot of work. You get to join in the fun VERY cheaply for 5° for 6 months of playing. That's the best bargain around IMO. -ToK Sure, I agree with that. But when you can really only afford the time to Pitlord one fight a week, and you want to earn credits for custom items or higher ECL PCs, then 5 credits a pop is rough.
xanadu 08-16-05, 04:29 PM	The Order is always ready to defend against the wicked. We've got the hammer and the nails. Hmm...well if 2 of them want to take on Draconis Regina that I'd do but I dont have any ECL 3 gladiators in ETHC. Some other ETHC people: add them to the death list!
Luni 08-16-05, 04:31 PM	You read my mind...I was looking to maybe link my characters up with deities...<kicks SRD for not having intellectual property> Quick description sent.
SoulLord 08-16-05, 05:39 PM	Im thinking of creating a dragon for the lvl 4 league but i'm a little confused by the process. lets say I want a white dragon wyrmling lvl adj +2 racial hit dice 3 or a black dragon very young lvl +4 racial hit dice 7 Is the wyrmling the equivalent of a 5th lvl character or a 2nd lvl character? same with the black ?
NiQil 08-16-05, 05:41 PM	Im thinking of creating a dragon for the lvl 4 league but i'm a little confused by the process. lets say I want a white dragon wyrmling lvl adj +2 racial hit dice 3 or a black dragon very young lvl +4 racial hit dice 7 Is the wyrmling the equivalent of a 5th lvl character or a 2nd lvl character? same with the black ? The wyrmling would be ECL 5 before you get any class levels. The very young black dragon would be ECL 11 before any class levels.
Vathelokai 08-16-05, 05:42 PM	Since I'm doing the same thing for the 6th league, I found out. ECL = HD + LA but for things like feats and skills, only the HD apply. LA only represents the natural attacks, all good saves and spell like abilities.
SoulLord 08-16-05, 05:55 PM	The wyrmling would be ECL 5 before you get any class levels. The very young black dragon would be ECL 11 before any class levels. it's a shame the cost seems to be too high for them to be worthy contenders
NiQil 08-16-05, 05:57 PM	it's a shame the cost seems to be too high for them to be worthy contenders Ummm....well....they're dragons. Even baby dragons are something to be feared...hence the reason the high ECL's.
Vathelokai 08-16-05, 06:00 PM	I agree with soullord. The natural attacks are wimpy until they reach young adult. Most dragons dont get spells till about ECL 10. But the RP value is so worth it.
SoulLord 08-16-05, 06:09 PM	indeed maybe for a campaign but for the arena it's just not worth it
Altaris13 08-16-05, 06:16 PM	indeed maybe for a campaign but for the arena it's just not worth it Yep, very true. Hey, maybe we can get a 'Young Dragons' crew going or something? :D
SoulLord 08-16-05, 06:18 PM	that sounds like a good campaign Dragons of the world unite!
Snommelp 08-16-05, 06:22 PM	If playing a dragon is anything like playing a pseudodragon, you guys are in for a rough time. It didn't help that the pseudodragon was tiny, and so is a white wyrmling. You have to get right on top of your foe to attack.
nightbanegod 08-16-05, 06:47 PM	Whats this? challenge the EHTC??? ... i would accept your challenge however... *coughcoughpoorsonofafemaledogcoughcough * ... that cold of yours seems to be contagious perhaps if our cold clear up those rather wacky pairing gods would pair dalamar up with any challenger you can put forth
Maraxus 08-16-05, 07:00 PM	Hey, the white wyrmling can swim and burrow and fly very, very fast. ... Your right, it's a weakling. Crapy attributes, no damage in either the bite or the breath weapon. The pseudodragon is better allthrough lower CR. But the attributes, and the natural armor are better, the poison beats the 1d6 breath all the time. ...question: What do you think, why ain't quasit and imp player-races?
nightbanegod 08-16-05, 07:06 PM	@ anyone i want to pitlord like a bunch of fights this week... i can pitlord as many as are sent my way with my available time... who do i talk to to get the word out and my name in the pitlord bucket...
NiQil 08-16-05, 07:09 PM	Whats this? challenge the EHTC??? ... i would accept your challenge however... *coughcoughpoorsonofafemaledogcoughcough * ... that cold of yours seems to be contagious perhaps if our cold clear up those rather wacky pairing gods would pair dalamar up with any challenger you can put forth Unlikely...for my gods are fair gods and would never pit me against inferior competition. :evillaugh
NiQil 08-16-05, 07:11 PM	I finally finished Kronos' animal companion....can someone take a quick looksee and see if I messed anything up? Been a *long time since I build an animal companion. I know it is missing tricks....still looking at those.
nightbanegod 08-16-05, 07:29 PM	OHHHHHHH........ now please pitlords ... im throwing down the gauntlet for NIQIL and Dalamar .. now i only request enough pitlord fights to pull even with me paying both our credits for a requested fight and NIQIL gets the option of picking any character he has at ECL 3-4 ... and i WILL show him who's inferior!!! :mage:
SoulLord 08-16-05, 07:31 PM	I'ive been pondering what would be a fun new character to play. and would be fun for the pitlord to run as well perhaps a paladin trading sword blows with his foe? what do pitlords consider fun?
NiQil 08-16-05, 07:35 PM	OHHHHHHH........ now please pitlords ... im throwing down the gauntlet for NIQIL and Dalamar .. now i only request enough pitlord fights to pull even with me paying both our credits for a requested fight and NIQIL gets the option of picking any character he has at ECL 3-4 ... and i WILL show him who's inferior!!! :mage: Well, since I just completed it....why not throw Kronos and Gaia into the fray? Gaia could use a new chewtoy.....
MystErikEry 08-16-05, 07:47 PM	Maybe someone can help me figure this out. I am a Large Octopus (as per the animals section of the SRD). I have someone grappled at the start of my turn. Could someone list all of the possible actions I could take on my turn, and what damage they would do along with the bonuses to attack/grapple rolls I would get? This would really clear things up for me. Thank you.
nightbanegod 08-16-05, 07:49 PM	aight NIQIL .... Kronos has nothing on me... ill take ya DOWN!!! your pet dog is gonna get SMOKED!!! or just ignored all together :evillaugh
Ellorion Saenelle 08-16-05, 07:59 PM	the link to the rules of the game is not working
Snommelp 08-16-05, 08:24 PM	@ anyone i want to pitlord like a bunch of fights this week... i can pitlord as many as are sent my way with my available time... who do i talk to to get the word out and my name in the pitlord bucket... PM the Pitlords account with how many fights you want to run per week and any special requests (i.e. "I don't want psionic fights").
nightbanegod 08-16-05, 08:39 PM	snommelp.... weird name but thanks for the help im off!!!!
Altaris13 08-16-05, 09:12 PM	that sounds like a good campaign Dragons of the world unite! Sounds cool to me! Should we allow 'draconic' creatures rather than just dragons? I know two kobolds who would fit. One of them wants to become a Dragon Disciple. Of course, if we're talking serious here, I know I'm way off on credits for a campaign and a dragon. EDIT: I'd be willing to Pitlord the fight between NiQil & Nightbane. Not sure if you can volunteer for fights or not though.
nightbanegod 08-16-05, 09:32 PM	if they set it up altaris that would be cool... im totally going to nuke em...kamehameha style ive got an attack for each of his saves as well as each of his armor classes!! :P and 5 bucks says my owl can take his wolf any day
Snommelp 08-16-05, 10:01 PM	Just a heads up: I'm going to be away from my computer from early tomorrow morning until Friday. I should be back before 1 PM local time, though. It seems a shame that my first week back I won't be responding with my usual promptness... I used to send my tactics right away, sometimes before the pairings had been linked in the fights of the week thread.
xanadu 08-16-05, 10:46 PM	I'ive been pondering what would be a fun new character to play. and would be fun for the pitlord to run as well perhaps a paladin trading sword blows with his foe? what do pitlords consider fun? Rogue-types and druids are annoying to pitlord. Barbarians are fun :)
Kaigan 08-16-05, 10:55 PM	Especially two melee barbarians. Maybe even ones with great clubs. Cave-men anyone? :)
NiQil 08-16-05, 10:58 PM	Rogue-types and druids are annoying to pitlord. Barbarians are fun :) Why are druids annoying? I can see rogue-types...all the sneaking and hiding and whatnot....but why druids?
Altaris13 08-17-05, 06:54 AM	if they set it up altaris that would be cool... im totally going to nuke em...kamehameha style ive got an attack for each of his saves as well as each of his armor classes!! :P and 5 bucks says my owl can take his wolf any day :heehee We'll see mate, we'll see. If you had any, I'd say bet him 5 creds rather than 5 bucks to actually make it a bet.
Vathelokai 08-17-05, 07:03 AM	I'ive been pondering what would be a fun new character to play. and would be fun for the pitlord to run as well perhaps a paladin trading sword blows with his foe? what do pitlords consider fun? Fun for me is when I see a tactic I have never seen before. The expeditious retreat + long bow is always a hassle. Thing that might be neat... An animal handler paladin or druid; basicly, bring a different monster to every fight. Use the monster to soften up your foe, or bring one with scent/track when you go against a rogue. Take a tip from the mind flayers and throw a squid on the face of the wizard you are fighting!
Vathelokai 08-17-05, 07:04 AM	that sounds like a good campaign Dragons of the world unite! I'm in if your in. I already have the char. sheet written up. I'm just tweaking the equipment before I post it. I can't seem to get feedback on what types of magic items monsters can wear though. If anyone hears this message, go to the House of Commons and push the issue. ;)
Altaris13 08-17-05, 08:48 AM	The way my group & I have always handled it is this: if it makes sense, then go right ahead. Armor can be customized (ie: cost more) to be fitted to most any creature (like barding.) We generally treat rings as having the ability to resize to fit whoever is wearing it. I am definately not the foremost expert on Dragons though. I'd suggest referring to the Draconomicon as it has a lot of dragon-orientated gear IIRC. RE: Tentacly creatures --- I've seen a number of instances where Illithid wore armbands/rings/so forth on their tentacles and benefited from it. I do believe you can still only benefit from one "item" per "slot." So an octopus would only gain benefit from guantlets of ogre power OR gloves of dexterity, despite being able to "wear" both. In this instance, I'd rule (in favor of balance) that you could really only "wear" one "slotted item". So I'd say that something with more than two "arms" could not wear both the gauntlets and the gloves aforementioned. However, I'd also say that something with tentacles rather than limbs would still benefit from "arm slots" and "feet slots." Such items would require customization (IE: cost more,) at least as far as common sense goes. EX: armbands would be no problem, but boots would have to "stockings" or something similar.
Vathelokai 08-17-05, 08:58 AM	The problem with that is that everyone has their own version of 'reasonable.' Since this is CoCo, going with Draconomicon rules is nearly out the window. Personally, I would like to see a set of rules that covers most monsters. What if you want to put magic items on your mount? Do reptiles, horses and manticores uses the same rules to determine what 'slots' they have? Can a hydra wear 4 headbands of intelect? Should everytype of creature have the same number of slots, with different names for the slots, even though they 'carry' the same items? What about creatures that grow in size as their HD improve? I can, and will, go on at a later point. Whether I get feedback or not, I will be writing up a set of rules that covers most of the monster manual. I think we need it, since monster races are allowed, and we have monster fights.
Faroth 08-17-05, 09:58 AM	I have a question, if I want to do a simple craft (a couple of arrows) or make a scroll very basic (a Protection from Evil) ... I have to sit for a week? I have to inform this to the pitlords in some thread or my character sheet? Please I need the answer before the pairings xD
Vathelokai 08-17-05, 10:02 AM	You can craft up to 1,000gp worth of stuff in one week without sitting out. You can craft up to 7,000gp wort of stuff if you sit out.
Faroth 08-17-05, 10:13 AM	I suppose I can't do both things (craft arrows and craft scrolls) even if the money is less than 1000 gp =/ Thanks for the answer
TelinArtho 08-17-05, 10:17 AM	Actually you can, as long as the total Market Value of your crafts does not exceed 1000gp, you are alright. For instance: Craft a Pearl of Power (1000gp MV), 500gp, 40xp - you can still fight. Craft a suit of Full Plate (1500gp MV), 750gp - you can't fight. Craft a suit of Half Plate (600gp MV), 300gp and Craft a Feather Token (Whip) (500gp MV), 250gp, 20xp - you can't fight. Craft a suit of Scale Mail (50gp MV), 25gp and Brew a potion of Mage Armor (50gp MV), 25gp, 2 xp - you can fight.
Faroth 08-17-05, 10:20 AM	Cool! thanks, now I'll go for arrows and scrolls hehe see u
michael_noah 08-17-05, 10:26 AM	I believe that there was an article on the Wizard's board that detailed some animal slots for magic items. That would seem a great place to start. I'll try to find it.
SoulLord 08-17-05, 10:51 AM	I'm in if your in. I already have the char. sheet written up. I'm just tweaking the equipment before I post it. I can't seem to get feedback on what types of magic items monsters can wear though. If anyone hears this message, go to the House of Commons and push the issue. ;) its very tempting im all for it but i'm afraid it's out of my budget 5 credits campaign + ?? a suitable starting dragon what do I consider suitable almost everything except white dragons
Altaris13 08-17-05, 10:56 AM	That's why I mentioned "draconic" creatures rather than just "dragons." Half-Dragons would be cheaper LA & creds, I think.
NiQil 08-17-05, 12:25 PM	@Cat I posted this yesterday, and it got lost in the shuffle... As Luni pointed out to me, Caspian does not meet the prereq to be able to use the Magic domain that he had (Int 10), so I swapped it for the Plant domain....is that acceptable?
NiQil 08-17-05, 12:37 PM	I have a question related to crafting. Currently, if someone buys an item....say a mithral chain shirt at a cost of 1100....if they want to sell it, they get half the market value back, which is 550. If I were to craft the same mithral chain shirt, the cost I would be paying for it to begin with is 550. If I were then, in the future, to want to sell it to upgrade or something, do I still sell it and receive half market value, getting my 550 back? Or am I now selling it at the price it cost me to craft it, and getting half of that amount (275) back? This is the only entry in the SRD I could find regarding selling things... In general, a character can sell something for half its listed price. By that entry, if you craft something (at which time you are paying half price for it), then you should be able to sell it according to its normal listed price, which would allow you to recoup your full investment in that item. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
Caterane 08-17-05, 12:44 PM	There's a new issue up in the House of Commons! @NiQil: Plant domain, ok. Half price of market price.
NiQil 08-17-05, 12:47 PM	Thank you Cat....yet another benefit to crafting....no money loss!
Maraxus 08-17-05, 12:50 PM	One quick question before the fight: Is asking for an Augury Spell a possible per-fight action?
Luni 08-17-05, 01:29 PM	Can anyone go through Shakari (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6918469&postcount=409) and make sue I didn't make too many silly mistakes?
TelinArtho 08-17-05, 01:36 PM	The only thing I see right off is the damage for weilding the quarterstaff as 2-weapons. It should be 1d6+4/1d6+2.
Mind Rogue 08-17-05, 01:44 PM	Flatfooted AC should only be 14 (rangers don't get uncanny dodge). Your damage for a double weapon quarterstaff is incorrect. It should be 1d6+4/1d6+2. You forgot your elf and druid abilities under special abilities. You should mention that your warhorse cost 150 gp. I guess it's also debateably whether a chain shirt could be made out of dragonhide, since it isn't listed amongst the armor types that can be made. Personally, I want to see how you make all of the little rings from dragon scales.
Maraxus 08-17-05, 01:47 PM	...See above ... You get racial boni to spot and listen like and the Immunity to sleep spells and effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects, like every other elf, too. Skills: Under Profession you should say whith one. Hey, how did the crocodile get on the Druid level 1 list? CR2 is for 4th levels ... never mind :D Everything else looks okay
Cerebus13 08-17-05, 01:52 PM	The 2° Advanced Monsters option that is available... Can this be applied to familiars, animal companions, purchased allies, or "befriended" allies (diplomacy, leadership, handle animal)? Applying the Elite Array of stats to a monster raises its CR by 1. How would this affect an ECL calculated character such as a Leadership cohort (can this even be done?)? Normally ECL is Hit Dice + Level Adjustment...so CR has no meaning in this case.
NiQil 08-17-05, 02:00 PM	Flatfooted AC should only be 14 (rangers don't get uncanny dodge). Your damage for a double weapon quarterstaff is incorrect. It should be 1d6+4/1d6+2. You forgot your elf and druid abilities under special abilities. You should mention that your warhorse cost 150 gp. I guess it's also debateably whether a chain shirt could be made out of dragonhide, since it isn't listed amongst the armor types that can be made. Personally, I want to see how you make all of the little rings from dragon scales. The armor types that are listed are examples...no where in the dragonhide entry in the Special Materials section of the SRD does it say that only certain types can be made. It gives those examples so that it is known how much hide can be extracted from a dragon, based upon what it would take to manufacture the armor for a creature of a certain size. Dragonhide: Armorsmiths can work with the hides of dragons to produce armor or shields of masterwork quality. One dragon produces enough hide for a single suit of masterwork hide armor for a creature one size category smaller than the dragon. By selecting only choice scales and bits of hide, an armorsmith can produce one suit of masterwork banded mail for a creature two sizes smaller, one suit of masterwork half-plate for a creature three sizes smaller, or one masterwork breastplate or suit of full plate for a creature four sizes smaller. In each case, enough hide is available to produce a small or large masterwork shield in addition to the armor, provided that the dragon is Large or larger. Because dragonhide armor isn’t made of metal, druids can wear it without penalty. Dragonhide armor costs double what masterwork armor of that type ordinarily costs, but it takes no longer to make than ordinary armor of that type. Dragonhide has 10 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 10. For instance, who says they aren't using the hide of more than one dragon to make a dragonhide chain shirt? Or maybe they are using leftover pieces from many dragons...who's to say?
Maraxus 08-17-05, 02:07 PM	But how can you make a chain shirt of this? This would be a good point to include scale mail, but chain-something? I don't think this is possible. But does this mean, that it is forbidden?
NiQil 08-17-05, 02:11 PM	But how can you make a chain shirt of this? This would be a good point to include scale mail, but chain-something? I don't think this is possible. But does this mean, that it is forbidden? To borrow lines from others...when has logic ever ruled in D&D? The SRD doesn't restrict it...so why should we? Dragonhide is about the only armor that druids can use efficiently without a real high dex...which usually doesn't come until higher levels. And by the time their dex is high enough to make full use of leather or hide armor, they are getting to the point where they can get ironwood armor. Why gimp the druids on armor any more than they already are?
Cerebus13 08-17-05, 02:16 PM	But how can you make a chain shirt of this? This would be a good point to include scale mail, but chain-something? I don't think this is possible. But does this mean, that it is forbidden?It's not forbidden...however, because it is not listed in the SRD/DMG/PHB/MM then it will cost credits to purchase it since it is a custom item.
NiQil 08-17-05, 02:24 PM	It's not forbidden...however, because it is not listed in the SRD/DMG/PHB/MM then it will cost credits to purchase it since it is a custom item. Why would it be a custom item? You can make an adamantine chain shirt, and it is not custom....you can make a mithral half plate, and it is not custom....why would using a special material like dragonhide be any different from building out of mithral or alchemical silver or darkwood?
Luni 08-17-05, 02:28 PM	Thanks for the catch of mistakes. Silly me, forgetting about elf abilities. As for Dragonhide Chain Shirt. Hmm. Maybe you guys are right. What does Caterane say about this?
NiQil 08-17-05, 02:38 PM	Thanks for the catch of mistakes. Silly me, forgetting about elf abilities. As for Dragonhide Chain Shirt. Hmm. Maybe you guys are right. What does Caterane say about this? I'd really love to know too, since I have a character in play with the very same thing. It's not restricted by the SRD in any way, and see no reason it would cost credits any more than a mithral half plate or an adamantine suit of chainmail would cost credits.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-17-05, 02:54 PM	Crafting stuff out of special materials is not considered a custom item. Otherwise all those cold-iron longswords, arrows, etc.. would all require massive amounts of credits. And as for the Dragon-Hide chain shirt, it's simply the "equivalent" of it. Meaning you be getting a suit of dragon-hide armor with +4 AC. The name 'chain shirt' attached to it, is considered a point of comparison to what it's equivalent to. -ToK
Altaris13 08-17-05, 03:13 PM	Crafting stuff out of special materials is not considered a custom item. Otherwise all those cold-iron longswords, arrows, etc.. would all require massive amounts of credits. And as for the Dragon-Hide chain shirt, it's simply the "equivalent" of it. Meaning you be getting a suit of dragon-hide armor with +4 AC. The name 'chain shirt' attached to it, is considered a point of comparison to what it's equivalent to. -ToK Seems reasonable to me, I guess. But why not just go with the dragonhide breastplate and be done with it?
NiQil 08-17-05, 03:15 PM	Seems reasonable to me, I guess. But why not just go with the dragonhide breastplate and be done with it? Because of the higher dex allowance for a chainshirt, for one. That's why Kronos has one...at least for now. Also, with a breastplate, you take a mobility hit to your speed down to 20 or 15 feet, depending on race. I usually try and avoid that wherever possible.
SoulLord 08-17-05, 03:24 PM	how about if the chain shirt is made of dragon bone specially treated as to have the properties of a steel link..... at least frome a role playing perspective :P
NiQil 08-17-05, 03:32 PM	I want to make sure I have this correct before pairings...someone correct me if I am wrong. A CL 1 potion...we'll use Shield of Faith as an example....normally costs 50 gp and has a duration of 1 min. If I were to purchase it at a CL 2, it would be 100 gp, and the duration would be 2 min? And this does not require credits, is that also correct?
Caterane 08-17-05, 03:33 PM	Great, pairings in 1 hour and the boards don't work properly. :rolleyes: The 2° Advanced Monsters option that is available... Can this be applied to familiars, animal companions, purchased allies, or "befriended" allies (diplomacy, leadership, handle animal)? Applying the Elite Array of stats to a monster raises its CR by 1. How would this affect an ECL calculated character such as a Leadership cohort (can this even be done?)? Normally ECL is Hit Dice + Level Adjustment...so CR has no meaning in this case. a) No. Class allies have their own rules. b) Leadership cohorts use the 25 pt-buy method and advance by class levels, not racial HD like those applicable for advancement.
Altaris13 08-17-05, 04:06 PM	Because of the higher dex allowance for a chainshirt, for one. That's why Kronos has one...at least for now. Also, with a breastplate, you take a mobility hit to your speed down to 20 or 15 feet, depending on race. I usually try and avoid that wherever possible. Eh, so what?! :eek: Just kidding. :D Personally, I'd never allow a dragonhide "chainshirt." Hide, sure. Breastplate, sure. Plate, why not? Heck, even a "leather shirt." Just because "logic doesn't exist" in DnD doesn't mean I can't use "common sense." :) :cheer: Pairings! Pairings! Yay Pairings! :cheer:
NiQil 08-17-05, 04:12 PM	Eh, so what?! :eek: Just kidding. :D Personally, I'd never allow a dragonhide "chainshirt." Hide, sure. Breastplate, sure. Plate, why not? Heck, even a "leather shirt." Just because "logic doesn't exist" in DnD doesn't mean I can't use "common sense." :) :cheer: Pairings! Pairings! Yay Pairings! :cheer: Bear in mind, that just because it is listed as a chain shirt mechanically, does not mean it is actually a chain shirt. It just means that is how it works in the game. Just like people make up their own races and then put (treat as XX) next to it. It's mechanics vs flavor. Mechanically, a dragonhide chain shirt is just that. Flavor-wise, maybe it is like SoulLord said...it is a chainshirt made of dragon bones...or it is one solid dragonhide that has etchings of chainlinks on it to give it that appearance. Flavor-wise, that would make much more sense, but mechanically it would still be a chainshirt.
Ellorion Saenelle 08-17-05, 04:38 PM	when were the pairings be up
nightbanegod 08-17-05, 04:38 PM	on the note of custom items... i want to know what happened to custom spells in the black market? and on another note... WHERE IS THE FIGHTS OF THE WEEK 8/17 thread
NiQil 08-17-05, 04:45 PM	The FotW thread is late... I don't know if I am the only one that didn't know this, but the board clock, that currently says it is 8:43 GMT, is wrong. GMT is 5 hours ahead of New York, making it currently 9:43 GMT. This, according to Emperor Cat. So you may want to adjust your clocks so that they reflect it being the correct time, even though it may say that it is GMT - or + something. I just edited my characters after the deadline (to fix something in the subject header that Cat pointed out to me), so don't edit yours.
Ellorion Saenelle 08-17-05, 04:48 PM	check your options, maybe it is on the wrong time zone.
Altaris13 08-17-05, 04:49 PM	Pairings will be up in a few hours. @NiQil: flavor vs mechanics? That's the territory of RAW vs RAI. And that is open to interpertation. Don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem with it, and wouldn't say anything as a Pitlord. But as a DM in my TT game, it'd never fly.
NiQil 08-17-05, 04:49 PM	check your options, maybe it is on the wrong time zone. No...my time is set to GMT for this very reason, and it currently says 8:49 pm GMT. According to Cat (and I'll take his word for it), it is now 9:49 GMT.
Maraxus 08-17-05, 04:52 PM	Since Leadership is mentioned ... It's still some level but I ask now ... What if the cohort takes a craft magic item-feat?
Ellorion Saenelle 08-17-05, 04:53 PM	one other thing u might check is the daylight savings time button.
NiQil 08-17-05, 04:57 PM	one other thing u might check is the daylight savings time button. Currently off. It's not my settings. The clock itself is wrong.
nightbanegod 08-17-05, 05:00 PM	Since Leadership is mentioned ... It's still some level but I ask now ... What if the cohort takes a craft magic item-feat? :weep: post 1984 was only this.... and that was SUCH a good year too....
Ellorion Saenelle 08-17-05, 05:02 PM	Currently off. It's not my settings. The clock itself is wrong. try setting it to on. i think that should work
Maraxus 08-17-05, 05:17 PM	:weep: post 1984 was only this.... and that was SUCH a good year too.... No good year, my brother was born then. ;) And another question. The unusual allies to buy look something like this... Griffon (Egg 3500 gp, Adult 7000 gp) Pegasus (Egg 2000 gp, Adult 3000 gp) Pseudodragon (Egg 10000 gp, Adult 20000 gp) Flesh Golem (20.000 gp) ...Among others. My question is: Why is the pseudodragon that expencive? 3 times as expencive then the griffin (CR4) 6 times as much as the pegasus (CR3) Or as expencive as the flesh golem (CR7) Not to forget that aerial mounts are to be valued higher as you can see from the paladin mounts. So why does the pseudodragon (Reminder: CR1) cost as much as allis with 8 times the combat-power? Could it be, that there is a "0" to much? I want a pseudodragon (but the one with the picture in 3.0 Monster Manual, not the one in the 3.5er - I want the cute one.)
nightbanegod 08-17-05, 05:22 PM	awwww... he wants a pet lizard!!! and 1984 I was born that year :P
Maraxus 08-17-05, 05:26 PM	I have a pet lizard. His name is pocketwyrm and he wears a tiny leather armor. I want a dragon! My (I mean Zassl, of course) level 9 feat is reserved for improved familiar, but I want it earlier! ;)
Altaris13 08-17-05, 05:59 PM	Maraxus: it is "of course" not "of cause" :D
Maraxus 08-17-05, 06:05 PM	Arg, I often do that wrong. ... Two words, same pronounciation ... and both from a different context ... "of reason" or "of track" ... so it was the other. And there were still two questions: 1. Can a cohort craft magic items for me? 2. Is the price of 10000/20000 for a pseudodragon really correct?
NiQil 08-17-05, 06:19 PM	1. No What about my cohort? Can he cast spells on me? Craft items? First of all, Cohorts may not craft any items; neither mundane nor magical ones. Cohorts with levels in a spellcasting class can aid the character by casting spells on him. Basically, these buff spells have the same limitation that every prebuff has (minimum 16 hours) so the Cohort can cast mage armor or nondetection on the gladiator if it lasts longer than 16 hours. The cohort can of course also cast spells on himself. However, there are some limitations to what a cohort may cast. Obviously, the spell cannot have a range of personal unless the Cohort casts it on himself. If the spell has a material component, the gladiator must provide it. Since the Cohort has no XP he cannot cast any spells with an XP component at all. The cast spells must be marked off (either by silvering it out or using strikethrough) on the spell-list. Like with gladiators, these prebuffs do not count against the 1/3 limit. As long as the cohort casts a single spell on the gladiator (or assists him in any other way) the cohort is considered to be participating in the fight, even if the gladiator leaves the cohort at home. The cohort took an active part in increasing the chances for a win so the ally rule applies normally. See FAQ: Cohorts and Allies for more information about cohorts. 2. Yes, as far as I know.
Faroth 08-18-05, 09:37 AM	I'm unsure, but... the bonus from Favored Enemy: Human apply to Half-humans? I don't think Half-elf, Half-Orc or Half-Giant are good favored enemys =/ And in the case, a Favored Enemy: Elf is usable against a Half-elf? see u
Luni 08-18-05, 09:49 AM	I'm unsure, but... the bonus from Favored Enemy: Human apply to Half-humans? I don't think Half-elf, Half-Orc or Half-Giant are good favored enemys =/ And in the case, a Favored Enemy: Elf is usable against a Half-elf? see u Quick response. Half-Elves are treated as elves. Half-Orcs are treated as orcs. Half-Giants are treated as giants.
Faroth 08-18-05, 09:54 AM	That's racial discrimination lol
xanadu 08-18-05, 10:20 AM	That's racial discrimination lol :heehee
Huan 08-18-05, 10:48 AM	For the Black Market, how much would a Belt of Giant's Strength +2 cost in terms of gp and credits?
Pittbull 08-18-05, 11:09 AM	For the Black Market, how much would a Belt of Giant's Strength +2 cost in terms of gp and credits? Different bodyslot---> 5° and 4000gp. I don't think that the +50%-rule aplies because there are belts of giantstrength.
TelinArtho 08-18-05, 01:23 PM	How are we dealing with handled vermin (centipedes, spiders, scorpions, etc)? According to the Handle Animal skill, in order to learn tricks the creature must have an intelligence of 1 (3 tricks) or 2 (6 tricks). Vermin have no intelligence - so what is the procedure for using them in the arena? For instance, my new character (not yet posted) will miniquest to get some Tiny Centipedes, because his HA will be +9, and that's what he can get. However, how are they controlled during combat?
Caterane 08-18-05, 01:28 PM	Consider them animals with Int 1 for that purpose
Delusional Illusion 08-18-05, 04:16 PM	Hi :) I'm new in this part of the boards and I just finished reading the rules section. You can propably guess I'm alittle overwhelmed at the moment as there are so many rules to follow. I wonder if I even dare to try to create a character with my pitifull skills :P Heh, propably I will give it a go so you might be seeing me here later on asking stupid questions so consider this as a warning ;) DL
Luni 08-18-05, 04:20 PM	No question is stupid! Better to ask, then to guess. Welcome aboard!
Altaris13 08-18-05, 04:20 PM	Welcome Illusion! We're all here to help, so ask away. And fear not, your character will be scrutinized, reviewed, weighed, scaled, measured, re-scrunitinized and processed through our thorough 1,101 point inspections. :D
NiQil 08-18-05, 04:21 PM	Hi :) I'm new in this part of the boards and I just finished reading the rules section. You can propably guess I'm alittle overwhelmed at the moment as there are so many rules to follow. I wonder if I even dare to try to create a character with my pitifull skills :P Heh, propably I will give it a go so you might be seeing me here later on asking stupid questions so consider this as a warning ;) DL To borrow a line from someone much smarter than I...there are no stupid questions...only stupid answers.
Delusional Illusion 08-18-05, 04:25 PM	Heh, thanks :) You'll propably be seeing a character sheet from me sometime during next week. See you then :)
Mind Rogue 08-18-05, 05:07 PM	To borrow a line from someone much smarter than I...there are no stupid questions...only stupid answers. I thought that there where no stupid questions... only stupid people who ask stupid questions. :D No offense Delusional ;) Feel free to ask away. Perhaps I might suggest to use the standard character sheet, filling it out and deleting what's not necessary. It includes information right on it how to fill it out. Just make sure to put "Ready for Wed Aug 24th" at the top when you are done, and you'll be all set for next week's fight (Allthough PMing Pitlords is highly recommended). Of course, if you don't finish, I suggest you don't put "Ready for Wed Aug 24th" at the top. And, contrary to the top quote, feel free to ask questions. I like to answer the not-so-stupid ones. ;)
Vathelokai 08-18-05, 05:28 PM	Another idea would be to find a char. sheet of someone who has the same class, quote it, and switch all the info. That way you know that the sheet will look nice and have all the info your char. needs.
Huan 08-18-05, 06:41 PM	To borrow a line from someone much smarter than I...there are no stupid questions...only stupid answers. More unfriendly varient: There are no stupid questions... just stupid people who ask questions. :P
nightbanegod 08-18-05, 09:15 PM	I'm unsure, but... the bonus from Favored Enemy: Human apply to Half-humans? I don't think Half-elf, Half-Orc or Half-Giant are good favored enemys =/ And in the case, a Favored Enemy: Elf is usable against a Half-elf? see u well Luni had a good point however another thing to consider is ... who's to say that that other half is human... for example ... Son of Buttmunch... half giant and one heck of an ugly half kobold? or do we even want to know what that other half is
NiQil 08-18-05, 10:39 PM	well Luni had a good point however another thing to consider is ... who's to say that that other half is human... for example ... Son of Buttmunch... half giant and one heck of an ugly half kobold? or do we even want to know what that other half is Generally speaking, half races usually have a notation somewhere in their racial entry that they are treated as a certain race for various purposes. Half-elves are treated as elves, half-orcs are treated as orcs, and half-giants are treated as giants. So for Favored Enemy purposes, to cover these three races, you would need elves, orcs, and giants in order to go after their half-races. I'm honestly surprised there aren't more dwarven characters around here, seeing how they have a massive AC bonus against giants, and there are so many half-giant characters in CoCo.
Maraxus 08-18-05, 11:36 PM	Hi, one short question: If you use a 2-handed weapon with a strength below 10, do you get the strength penalty *1,5 to damage or only *1 ?? You apply your character’s Strength modifier to: ... Damage rolls when using a melee weapon or a thrown weapon (including a sling). (Exceptions: Off-hand attacks receive only one-half the character’s Strength bonus, while two-handed attacks receive one and a half times the Strength bonus. A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.) ... It speaks only of a bonus, so one could say, this does not count for penalties - but on the other hand it says nothing about penalties, so the rule for the bonuses may apply. What do you think?
NiQil 08-18-05, 11:53 PM	Hi, one short question: If you use a 2-handed weapon with a strength below 10, do you get the strength penalty *1,5 to damage or only *1 ?? It speaks only of a bonus, so one could say, this does not count for penalties - but on the other hand it says nothing about penalties, so the rule for the bonuses may apply. What do you think? ick....that's a tough one. I can't speak for RAW.....only from my home experience in games....we treat penalties the same way as bonuses....if you use a weapon that gives a 1.5 bonus, then you take a 1.5 penalty. In other words, penalty and bonus are interchangeable. You might also want to check to see if wielding that type of weapon with a Strength below 10 is even possible. I may be thinking of a version previous to 3.5e, but I know that at some point weapons had minimum strengths to wield them. I would say this may call for an Elder ruling, if you cannot find anything further in the SRD. I'll do some hunting. Edit: Here is a paragraph found in the PHB that I cannot find in the SRD that you could infer from. Damage: If you score a hit, roll damage and deduct it from the target's current hit points. Add your Strength modifier on damage rolls involving melee and thrown weapons. If you're using a weapon in your off hand, add one-half your Strength modifier (if it's a bonus). If you're wielding a weapong with both hands, add one and a half times your Strength modifier (if it's a bonus). Based on that last sentence, it would appear that if it you do not have a bonus to your Strength, then you do not add one and a half times....so one could infer from that you only take your Strength penalty to damage, not Strength and a half. That is pretty flimsy, but it is the best I have come up with so far. I'll keep hunting.
Dr. Funk 08-18-05, 11:57 PM	Hi - I'm new here. I've posted a new character and since I'm new, would like some feedback on him. Cid Highwing (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7007710)
TelinArtho 08-19-05, 12:04 AM	Just to be candid and so that the cat is out of the bag - so to speak - Dr. Funk is my Brother-in-Law. I'll never be biased towards/against him - but I think honesty is the better route here. If anyone is concerned about it, I will send a PM to Pitlords/Cat to just not pair me up as his pitlord. (Also, he's relatively new to D&D and to 3.5 - so if he misses something, he may not realize it.) /d
NiQil 08-19-05, 12:09 AM	Just to be candid and so that the cat is out of the bag - so to speak - Dr. Funk is my Brother-in-Law. I'll never be biased towards/against him - but I think honesty is the better route here. If anyone is concerned about it, I will send a PM to Pitlords/Cat to just not pair me up as his pitlord. (Also, he's relatively new to D&D and to 3.5 - so if he misses something, he may not realize it.) /d Let me get this right....Dr. Funk.....you claim relation to Telin? You have my profound condolences. :rofl:
TelinArtho 08-19-05, 12:12 AM	Actually, to be precise, I'm claimed relation to him - but only through marriage to his sister... And don't worry NiQil - Foreman will be by to BEAT you later...
Maraxus 08-19-05, 12:13 AM	Ah, google is your friend... found it in the archive: http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-302225.html ...however, this are only 2 people who can say surly that it does not aply to penalties (and one who thiks it should be that way but does not know) You said it does aply to penalties and that was my first impression, too. However, in question, I rule for the gladiator with the low strength. If his opponent has any protest, this can go ... NiQil, you are great, thanks.
Ellorion Saenelle 08-19-05, 12:17 AM	@dr. funk I think your character looks good.
NiQil 08-19-05, 12:24 AM	Actually, to be precise, I'm claimed relation to him - but only through marriage to his sister... And don't worry NiQil - Foreman will be by to BEAT you later... Heh....I'm just waiting for Kronos to get Sir Valkin one on one....because last time I didn't have my animal companion ready.....now that I do, that might even the score....especially since, if I really want to, I could change it to a light or heavy warhorse as well....wouldn't that be fun? Horse on horse combat LOL Besides...Foreman has dusted me twice....the way I see it, I am just getting even LOL.
nightbanegod 08-19-05, 12:26 AM	his sister? dude if it were my sister YOU would be beaten... but thats just me :P ...
Caterane 08-19-05, 01:07 AM	@all: Please do NOT open any Guild threads at that time. We need a fully functional administration first. Every new to-be-Guild needs to be checked and approved first! So it is really to no avail if you open one now. @Tok: Well, a rogue Guild is definately something we will use later so keep it. I also don't think you will forbid your own guild later lol Ok, we will go with 3 test guilds then.
Luni 08-19-05, 01:12 AM	@Caterane: Can you teach 3 creatures at once with the free action from Handle Animal? All the same trick of course.
Kaigan 08-19-05, 01:18 AM	Hi - I'm new here. I've posted a new character and since I'm new, would like some feedback on him. Cid Highwing (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7007710) Welcome to the LG CoCo Dr. Funk. Your character looks good. Good luck next week on your fight. @All: It's Kaigan again, looking for one more person for my campaign, the Drums of War found here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=446832) Please look it over, and Pm me if you're interested. Thanks. Start date will be Sept 7th.
michael_noah 08-19-05, 02:18 AM	You definitely do not take an extra penalty for having a low strength and using a two handed weapon. You only take your strength penalty, not *1.5.
Usurpator 08-19-05, 02:34 AM	Hi - I'm new here. I've posted a new character and since I'm new, would like some feedback on him. Cid Highwing (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7007710) Welcome, here's some feedback: You are short-changing yourself: you get a +1 size bonus to attacks for being small. Do you have a specific reason for not taking a masterwork longbow?
TelinArtho 08-19-05, 08:47 AM	I'll make sure he sees the changes for the attack bonus. I also noticed that he's got a +2 cha bonus to one of his skills (HA) that should only be +1. Since I was there making the character with him, I can tell you that he didn't buy a masterwork bow because he wanted to craft a bow. If he buys the bow, he'll probably make other changes to his skills, because the bowmaking skill isn't nearly as useful to him. It is something to consider though. /d
TelinArtho 08-19-05, 09:14 AM	Well, the third member of the followers of Denth the Summoner has arrived. Anyone care to comment? Vakkor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7009806) Also, he needs to go on a miniquest next week for a couple of Medium Monstrous Centipedes - anyone up for it? (Simple CL1 encounter)
Gonbow 08-19-05, 09:24 AM	I'll make sure he sees the changes for the attack bonus. I also noticed that he's got a +2 cha bonus to one of his skills (HA) that should only be +1. Since I was there making the character with him, I can tell you that he didn't buy a masterwork bow because he wanted to craft a bow. If he buys the bow, he'll probably make other changes to his skills, because the bowmaking skill isn't nearly as useful to him. It is something to consider though. /d If your going to be an archer, I highly suggest keeping Craft: Bowmaking, because it includes the creation of arrows/bolts as well as bows. You are likely to only get 1-2 bows in your carreer, and then upgrade them as time passes, but you are likely to shoot many, many, many, many arrows, and that half-price will add up, I think.
TelinArtho 08-19-05, 09:37 AM	Well, I look at it like this: Craft: Bowmaking to make a bow to start, 6 ranks -1 int, +2 tool making a Mighty +1 Str Bow saves him 200 vs (100+55) - 45gp. Later on, he'll be able to craft a masterworked one and save him (500 vs 250+55) - 195gp. If he uses 20 arrows per fight, this would accumulate at 5sp/fight. So if he's already saving money I could see it being helpful. However, even at 100 arrows/fight, he'd only be saving himself 2gp, 5sp/fight. Just to recoup the cost of his tools (55gp), he'll need to craft 1100 arrows. Find me a single archer in the CoCo that has used up that many arrows. Now, if instead he puts those ranks in another skill (Profession - Woodland Tour Guide) - 6 ranks +2 wis, +2 tool - at ECL 3, he's making 30gp/week - this will far outstrip the benefit he'll get from Bowmaking - especially if he's just using it for crafting arrows. /d
Vathelokai 08-19-05, 09:47 AM	Unfortunately, Cat has ruled against any tool that is not specificly listed in the SRD or rules of gladius thread. So, no profession tools. Your point about craft bow is right on.
TelinArtho 08-19-05, 09:51 AM	Well, I'm going by the Rules of Gladius thread: You can buy a set of masterwork tools for certain skills which give you a +2 circumstance bonus for the skills. These masterwork tools are only available for Appraise by weight (merchant's scale: 2 gp) [non-magic value only] Appraise by detail (magnifying glass: 100 gp) [non-magic value only] Climb (climber's kit: 80 gp) Craft Alchemy/Poisonmaking (alchemy lab: 500 gp) Craft skills, all others (artisan's tool: 55 gp) Disable device (masterwork thieves tools: 100 gp) Disguise (disguise kit: 50 gp/10charges) Handle Animal (whistle: 50 gp) Heal (healer's kit: 50 gp/10charges) Open lock (masterwork thieves tools: 100 gp) Perform skills (masterwork musical instrument: 100 gp) Professions (various tools: 50 gp) Ride to stay in the saddle (military saddle: price varies). Emphasis mine.
Faroth 08-19-05, 10:29 AM	If I'm a druid can I begin with an animal companion? Do I have to pay money for the animal? Do I have to go on a quest for it?
Vathelokai 08-19-05, 10:40 AM	Well, I'm going by the Rules of Gladius thread: I see my mistake. I made the arguement that the 50gp profession tool should be allowed for knowledge checks. Example: Prof: guide can use a tool (map), but know: geography cannot use tool (map). Cat ruled profession tools were allowed and knowledge tools were not.
xanadu 08-19-05, 10:41 AM	If I'm a druid can I begin with an animal companion? Do I have to pay money for the animal? Do I have to go on a quest for it? Yes, druids begin with their companion.
Gonbow 08-19-05, 10:42 AM	Well, I look at it like this: Craft: Bowmaking to make a bow to start, 6 ranks -1 int, +2 tool making a Mighty +1 Str Bow saves him 200 vs (100+55) - 45gp. Later on, he'll be able to craft a masterworked one and save him (500 vs 250+55) - 195gp. If he uses 20 arrows per fight, this would accumulate at 5sp/fight. So if he's already saving money I could see it being helpful. However, even at 100 arrows/fight, he'd only be saving himself 2gp, 5sp/fight. Just to recoup the cost of his tools (55gp), he'll need to craft 1100 arrows. Find me a single archer in the CoCo that has used up that many arrows. Now, if instead he puts those ranks in another skill (Profession - Woodland Tour Guide) - 6 ranks +2 wis, +2 tool - at ECL 3, he's making 30gp/week - this will far outstrip the benefit he'll get from Bowmaking - especially if he's just using it for crafting arrows. /d It's not just normal arrows, it's also Silver, Cold-iron and MASTERWORK arrows that he will be saving money on ;)
TelinArtho 08-19-05, 10:51 AM	Well, I'm still going to disagree with you Gonbow- just how many people here have Cold Iron/Silver DR? Sure you might make some, but they aren't that expensive (cold iron is only double - so 20 arrows saves you 1gp; silver is +2 gp/arrow or +2 gp/20 arrows. I'll assume the former, so for 20 arrows, you are saving 10gp, 5sp). As to masterworked arrows, unless you are enchanting them afterwards (which you might be, in which case, I do agree it is useful), are not worth it because the Enhancement bonus from ammunition does not stack with the Enhancement bonus from the bow.
TelinArtho 08-19-05, 10:53 AM	What animal trick (if it is an animal trick) covers the ability to wear barding without non-proficiency penalties?
Gonbow 08-19-05, 11:09 AM	Well, I'm still going to disagree with you Gonbow- just how many people here have Cold Iron/Silver DR? Sure you might make some, but they aren't that expensive (cold iron is only double - so 20 arrows saves you 1gp; silver is +2 gp/arrow or +2 gp/20 arrows. I'll assume the former, so for 20 arrows, you are saving 10gp, 5sp). As to masterworked arrows, unless you are enchanting them afterwards (which you might be, in which case, I do agree it is useful), are not worth it because the Enhancement bonus from ammunition does not stack with the Enhancement bonus from the bow. Exactly. Arrows of slaying anyone? Custom arrows with use-activated spells can be useful as well, if extremely expensive. But your an archer! What else are you going to spend your money on, if not arrows of fireball? :P
NiQil 08-19-05, 11:15 AM	What animal trick (if it is an animal trick) covers the ability to wear barding without non-proficiency penalties? To the best of my knowledge, there are no proficiencies with barding. At least, none that I have seen. And the only penalties I have seen for barding is with regard to it being medium or heavy, which causes slowed movement rates. That being said, if it were my game, I would rule that only animals that normally are trained for combat (warhorses, warponies and riding dogs) could wear barding, as they would be trained with it to some degree. Other animals or magical beasts would need to be trained for combat before I would allow barding for them. Doing this would require training in Combat Riding (see Skill: Handle Animal), which would give them the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard and heal. Giving a normal riding animal that type of training (to me at least) would seem logical to assume familiarity with barding. But I know of no such rules that gives penalties for non-proficiency, since there isn't a Proficiency: Barding feat that I know of.
TelinArtho 08-19-05, 11:19 AM	Here's my thoughts on the matter: 1. Barding can only be used by creatures that have been trained for "Combat Riding" - this is a 6-week training course and can only be done with creatures that possess an Intelligence of 2 or more. 2. Barding can only be used by creatures that have been trained for "Attack" and "Work" - Attack because it is a combat situation and Work because it is encumbrance for them. If it is just 2 tricks, any animal can get it. I think I've seen a few characters that had animals that were not trained for combat riding that still had barding. I'll try to go find some examples. /d
TelinArtho 08-19-05, 11:38 AM	Here's some examples of creatures that have used barding but do not specifically have Combat Riding: Regular creatures: Seidenfuss (Hippogriff, Chain shirt barding, not Combat Riding) [Indri], Battra (Hippogriff, Chain shirt barding, not Combat Riding) [Mer-man] Gotterfunken (Griffin, Chain shirt barding - intelligent, but no armor feat) [Archangel Ixenthor] Familiars: Eule (Owl, Chain shirt barding, no tricks - but has intelligence and no armor feat) [Uhmentarymster] Pocketwyrm (Lizard, Leather barding - intelligent, but no armor feat) [Zassl] Mins (Owl, Chain shirt barding - intelligent, but no armor feat) [Czernobog] Animal Companion: Vanguard (Bison, Mithril Hide? barding - animal companion, 4 tricks) [Arion Hunter] This is not a comprehensive list, but at the same time, I think it shows that combat riding (6 specific tricks) is not being used to determine armor proficiency or CoCo is simply ignoring armor non-proficiency in general. I would like to have a concrete answer to this - so if some Elders or Cat/Pitlords could speak up - that would be great.
Mind Rogue 08-19-05, 11:49 AM	Well, the MM says that an animal is not proficient in armor "unless trained for war". Sadly, War isn't a general purpose in the handle animal skill, although Fighting and Combat Riding are, and I would suppose that either are probably sufficient training for barding. The attack trick might be deemed sufficient by some, although I think that one of these two purposes should probably be required. Another one you might want to add to your list, though is Zephyr, Zahrat's riding dog animal companion. She's one trick short for both Fighting and Combat Riding. However, it's only leather barding, so even if she isn't proficient in it, no penalties are applied because it has no ACP. Still, we should have concrete requirements fo being "trained for war" so that we know what it takes to wear armor around here.
TelinArtho 08-19-05, 11:50 AM	Okay, doing more research I have found the following under the entry for animal type: —Proficient with no armor unless trained for war. And this under Magical Beast (familiars, griffon, hippogriff) type: —Proficient with no armor. So we look under handle animal for "War training" or something similar: Combat Riding (6 weeks, 6 tricks) Fight (3 weeks, 3 tricks) Guarding (4 weeks, 4 tricks)
TelinArtho 08-19-05, 11:52 AM	@Mind Rogue - that's exactly what I'm getting at. It may seem like a trivial question to some, but if the question could come up for a character I'm designing, I want to know ahead of time before I invest too much of my time into it. In case anyone's wondering this eventually leads to whether or not vermin can wear armor...
Mind Rogue 08-19-05, 12:24 PM	@Mind Rogue - that's exactly what I'm getting at. It may seem like a trivial question to some, but if the question could come up for a character I'm designing, I want to know ahead of time before I invest too much of my time into it. In case anyone's wondering this eventually leads to whether or not vermin can wear armor... Aside from finding someone willing to make barding for your scorpion (or whatever it is), the short answer is 'no' (the long answer is 'yes' but they won't be proficient in it) since being mindless, they are incapable of learning any tricks, therefore they cannot be trained for war or gain armor proficiency.
xanadu 08-19-05, 12:25 PM	I remember about 6 weeks ago there was a discussion regarding the ability scores undead could have if secured as an ally. Can someone link me to that discussion or its final decision.
TelinArtho 08-19-05, 12:32 PM	@Mind Rogue: This was Cat's response to how to train vermin since they are eligible for Handle Animal in Gladius: Consider them animals with Int 1 for that purpose So I have 3 tricks available to me for training my vermin. So my question still stands as to what needs to be done to get rid of Armor non-proficiency penalties.
TelinArtho 08-19-05, 03:39 PM	Xanadu - in case you haven't found the discussion yet, there are two things I've found on the subject. The first is a fairly recent post about an Elite Array Wood Elf Skeleton. The latter (which is actually much earlier) is a post about someone getting a ghoul as a 2nd lvl cleric and replacing it with skeletons. Elite Array Skeleton (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6921365) Ghoul discussion (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=444341&page=18&pp=30) That goes all the way back to page 18 of this tavern. So if this doesn't cover it - you need to go further back. /d
King Uther 08-19-05, 04:53 PM	Attention all EHTC Members or possible members: I am going to have a page specifically for stories of characters, linked to your post for convenience. It won't be included until the new EHTC is finished, but feel free to write any stories in the current thread. I think it will be a good way to facilitate roleplay.
sloisel 08-19-05, 05:16 PM	Familiars: Eule (Owl, Chain shirt barding, no tricks - but has intelligence and no armor feat) [Uhmentarymster] Pocketwyrm (Lizard, Leather barding - intelligent, but no armor feat) [Zassl] Mins (Owl, Chain shirt barding - intelligent, but no armor feat) [Czernobog] As far as I know, it is entirely impossible for familiars to be proficient with armors. As their int is pretty high, they cannot be taught tricks with handle animal, so certainly cannot get the armor proficiency that way, and there is no method for them to get a feat (well, I guess a wish might do it.) Familiars do get your skill ranks, but none of your feats. (Which is weird when it comes to languages; I hope you wrote down which ones were free from high int and which ones were from the speak language skill.) Which doesn't prevent them from using barding, but they will apply the armor check penalty to all that familiar's skills that require movements and also attack rolls. So if all you're going to do is ride a horse, doesn't matter if it has war training, you might as well stick barding onto it. If these characters haven't applied the armor check penalty to their familiars' attack bonus(es), they are in violation and should be reported in the prison thread. Sebastien Loisel
Delusional Illusion 08-19-05, 05:59 PM	Hi! I've just finished with the number parts of my character sheet and being new here I would greatly appreciate if anyone had time to give it a quick look over. Some odd mistakes always crawl in after multiple edits and you never see them yourself :embarrass. Thanks :) *Link* (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7009527&postcount=425)
Maraxus 08-19-05, 06:00 PM	Pocketwyrm has no problem with his tiny leather jacket. He takes the -0 penanty to everything without problem. :) And Owls don't attack anyway. :) But Meek Head should reduce the armor bonus from Mins' barding - tiny creatures get only half.
nightbanegod 08-19-05, 06:32 PM	Attention all EHTC Members or possible members: I am going to have a page specifically for stories of characters, linked to your post for convenience. It won't be included until the new EHTC is finished, but feel free to write any stories in the current thread. I think it will be a good way to facilitate roleplay. do you mean you want a background story?... this could be fun!!
nightbanegod 08-19-05, 06:34 PM	As far as I know, it is entirely impossible for familiars to be proficient with armors. As their int is pretty high, they cannot be taught tricks with handle animal, so certainly cannot get the armor proficiency that way, and there is no method for them to get a feat (well, I guess a wish might do it.) Familiars do get your skill ranks, but none of your feats. (Which is weird when it comes to languages; I hope you wrote down which ones were free from high int and which ones were from the speak language skill.) Which doesn't prevent them from using barding, but they will apply the armor check penalty to all that familiar's skills that require movements and also attack rolls. So if all you're going to do is ride a horse, doesn't matter if it has war training, you might as well stick barding onto it. If these characters haven't applied the armor check penalty to their familiars' attack bonus(es), they are in violation and should be reported in the prison thread. Sebastien Loisel whats wrong with strapping some non humanoid bracers of armor on a creature? or even a tiny amulet of natural armor?
Gonbow 08-19-05, 09:11 PM	As far as I know, it is entirely impossible for familiars to be proficient with armors. As their int is pretty high, they cannot be taught tricks with handle animal, so certainly cannot get the armor proficiency that way, and there is no method for them to get a feat (well, I guess a wish might do it.) Familiars do get your skill ranks, but none of your feats. (Which is weird when it comes to languages; I hope you wrote down which ones were free from high int and which ones were from the speak language skill.) Which doesn't prevent them from using barding, but they will apply the armor check penalty to all that familiar's skills that require movements and also attack rolls. So if all you're going to do is ride a horse, doesn't matter if it has war training, you might as well stick barding onto it. If these characters haven't applied the armor check penalty to their familiars' attack bonus(es), they are in violation and should be reported in the prison thread. Sebastien Loisel Well, actually, in the blurb about familiars, it states that they use the casters HD for all things that depend upon it, with the exception of HP (they either use their natural total, or half their masters, whichever is higher). Thus, while they don't get YOUR feats, it is arguable that they get their OWN set of feats. This makes combative familiars a little more attractive, imho. Of course, I could be wrong, but that seems to be how it works.
nightbanegod 08-19-05, 09:59 PM	Armor Spikes: You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a –4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) An enhancement bonus to a suit of armor does not improve the spikes’ effectiveness, but the spikes can be made into magic weapons in their own right. so with this in mind ... whats stopping a half giant from purchasing Largesized armor spikes that deal higher damage?
Dr. Funk 08-19-05, 10:10 PM	Okay, I've got another character up. Tell me what you think: Vivi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7016241)
Luni 08-19-05, 10:11 PM	so with this in mind ... whats stopping a half giant from purchasing Largesized armor spikes that deal higher damage? Nothing. Thats why I'm scared of Half-Giant Grapplers.
Luni 08-19-05, 10:15 PM	Okay, I've got another character up. Tell me what you think: Vivi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7016241) You got 30 skill points listed, when you only get 24. I like your 30000 gp in expendables. I'd suggest getting a familiar to improve your HP's or Fort. Save.
Dr. Funk 08-19-05, 10:25 PM	i wanted to wait to get the improved familiar feat and get an air elemental
nightbanegod 08-19-05, 10:45 PM	now. if ive done this right ... *the horseman* can have ac 27 and still get two attacks at +5 and -1 for 2d6+4 and 1d8+2...each round.. i think this is nice!!! for a 3rd lvl character
NiQil 08-20-05, 03:35 AM	I asked this a few days ago and it got lost in the shuffle. Are we able to buy potions at higher CL's than what is listed in the SRD, as long as the potion exists in the SRD, with no credits? For instance, if I wanted a CL 5 potion of barkskin, which is listed with a lower CL in the SRD, can I buy it without credits? The potion itself exists per the SRD....but a higher CL would hike the price in exchange for a longer duration. I know that if I wanted a potion of...say...faerie fire...to make myself nice and shiny...I would need credits because the potion is not on the list. I would like clarification on my example...where the potion *is on the list, but I want to buy it at a higher CL.
Maraxus 08-20-05, 04:29 AM	i wanted to wait to get the improved familiar feat and get an air elemental Hey, we can dismiss familiars, can't we? *plans to do that*
Usurpator 08-20-05, 04:31 AM	How often can you use powers or items that have a certain number of uses per week instead of per day?
KerlanRayne 08-20-05, 04:54 AM	I asked this a few days ago and it got lost in the shuffle. Are we able to buy potions at higher CL's than what is listed in the SRD, as long as the potion exists in the SRD, with no credits? For instance, if I wanted a CL 5 potion of barkskin, which is listed with a lower CL in the SRD, can I buy it without credits? The potion itself exists per the SRD....but a higher CL would hike the price in exchange for a longer duration. I know that if I wanted a potion of...say...faerie fire...to make myself nice and shiny...I would need credits because the potion is not on the list. I would like clarification on my example...where the potion *is on the list, but I want to buy it at a higher CL.Higher caster level potions not on the list would cost credits. However, if you look at the list of potions, many are listed several times with different caster levels. Barkskin for example is on there 4 times, from +2 to +5 bonuses. KerlanRayne
Vathelokai 08-20-05, 07:58 AM	Nothing. Thats why I'm scared of Half-Giant Grapplers. Have you read over the new harvester...halfgiant...expansion...armo r spikes...
Luni 08-20-05, 09:28 AM	Have you read over the new harvester...halfgiant...expansion...armo r spikes... Balbanes scares me more. He's a good guy.
TelinArtho 08-20-05, 10:32 AM	Regarding dismissing familiars, from the SRD: A slain or dismissed familiar cannot be replaced for a year and day @Usurpator A 1/week item can be used 1/fight. If it is usable 4 times/week, then it can be used 2/fight. In other words, its the same as normal. Technically, if an item is 1/hour, it can be used once in the hour and then again in another hour if the fight lasts that long. Thankfully, to my knowledge, no fight has ever lasted that long...
nightbanegod 08-20-05, 10:39 AM	i think in a short while ... War should be able to take balbanes
nightbanegod 08-20-05, 10:43 AM	AN HOUR?????... jeez that would be like round 600 :eek: + !!!
Caterane 08-20-05, 10:47 AM	Balbanes? The only thing I'd be worried about is his wand of entangle ...because it increases the workload for the Pitlord by delaying the time before the Harvester finally gets into melee and flats Balbanes on the ground :D
King Uther 08-20-05, 11:12 AM	2 problems with that 1. You'll never make it to melee 2. You'll be dead before any of your strengths even come into play
Caterane 08-20-05, 11:21 AM	I think I'll just buy a scroll of fly :D
Usurpator 08-20-05, 12:06 PM	A 1/week item can be used 1/fight. If it is usable 4 times/week, then it can be used 2/fight. In other words, its the same as normal. Thank you. It was also possible that you converted the uses to x/day and then rounded up. Technically, if an item is 1/hour, it can be used once in the hour and then again in another hour if the fight lasts that long. Thankfully, to my knowledge, no fight has ever lasted that long... I guess the Pitlord is still writing up the report of that one fight that did last for over an hour. ;)
nightbanegod 08-20-05, 12:48 PM	that would have to be a multi post arena fight or even just a new thread and seperate actions by post!!
Snommelp 08-20-05, 03:44 PM	I'm rolling up a second character, possibly one of my strangest to date. I need one thing, though: what's a good name for a Githzerai?
Gonbow 08-20-05, 03:52 PM	I'm rolling up a second character, possibly one of my strangest to date. I need one thing, though: what's a good name for a Githzerai? Githzerai and Githyanki are incredibly unique, yet incredibly untapped. I just chose a random string of interesting sounding names for my Githzerai: Santos Fi'corma. If you have been playing d&d for awhile, 2nd edition darksun in particular, take a look at the Black Spine module series, it goes into an astral stronghold of Githyanki near the end and includes several named Githzerai/yanki NPCs. I used to have it, but I gave it away about a year ago.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-20-05, 04:23 PM	I'm rolling up a second character, possibly one of my strangest to date. I need one thing, though: what's a good name for a Githzerai? I had a Githzerai character here in the arena awhile back. He did pretty well. He was an archer/grappler ftr/mnk. Did ok, but i was still new then. I might revist him at a later date. NEED NEW PC FOR CAMPAIGN!! A History Lesson, Part 1 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=457081) needs you. We have lost a member for 3 weeks now, waiting his return, and still no idea where/when they'll return. I've decided to open the slot up to the floor for someone else to fill. You MUST be ECL 4, or an powerful ECL 3 build very close to levelling. A Druid would be nice or a strong melee combatant. This is not a first come first serve, i will chose amongst the possible candidates for the best fit for the current party and notify them by Tuesday at the latest of their acceptance. -ToK
Snommelp 08-20-05, 04:56 PM	Rrayylos Dakkama has arrived. Anyone notice mistakes?
Usurpator 08-20-05, 05:09 PM	Rrayylos Dakkama has arrived. Anyone notice mistakes? Inertial armor gives an armor bonus, so it doesn't stack with normal armor.
Snommelp 08-20-05, 05:13 PM	Inertial armor gives an armor bonus, so it doesn't stack with normal armor. Right, forgot about that. That's why all of the Gith are monks. Never mind, Pitlords, scrap Rrayylos until I make the necessary modifications.
NiQil 08-20-05, 05:16 PM	Right, forgot about that. That's why all of the Gith are monks. Never mind, Pitlords, scrap Rrayylos until I make the necessary modifications. Just make sure the heading of the post is labled under construction, so that you can still use the post to put in another character at some future point. And then if you have to change the name of it later, just pm the pitlords acct so that the link on the roster will reflect the correct name.
Usurpator 08-20-05, 05:17 PM	double post.... :confused:
Snommelp 08-20-05, 05:41 PM	Rrayylos has been reborn as Grakk. An Orc barbarian might not be as fantastical, but, unlike the Gith, it actually makes sense.
Snommelp 08-20-05, 07:18 PM	That Standard Dungeon Map is new. Is it possible to hold an arena fight on that map? If so, do you have to request it, or is it random?
Vathelokai 08-20-05, 07:25 PM	The dungeon map is for the monster fights. I'm not sure about requests though. Might have to pay a credit.
Vathelokai 08-20-05, 07:51 PM	For the purposes of the alter self spell, is a monsterous humanoid the same as a humanoid?
Snommelp 08-20-05, 08:13 PM	For the purposes of the alter self spell, is a monsterous humanoid the same as a humanoid? To the best of my knowledge, no. Monstrous Humanoid is a unique type, and is different from simple Humanoid.
Vathelokai 08-20-05, 08:33 PM	How bout this... alterself gives you racial skill bonuses of the type you assume. Dwarf (and deep halfling) stonecunning is sometimes considered a racial skill bonus. Would you get it? would you get only the + to skill and not the full version? Similarly, if you change into an elf, do you get the "auto-search within 5 feet of secret doors?' It is mentioned in the racial skill bonus section.
Snommelp 08-20-05, 08:42 PM	Let's look at both of your examples. First, stonecutting. Stonecutting is indeed a bonus to a skill that comes about simply by nature of being part of that race, so yes, it is a racial skill bonus, and you get it with alter self. The elf's ability to automatically search for secret doors is not a bonus, but rather a racial trait. It is listed with the bonus to search checks because it applies to the same check. You do not get the auto-search trait from alter self.
Snommelp 08-20-05, 09:56 PM	Rrayylos has been reborn as Grakk. An Orc barbarian might not be as fantastical, but, unlike the Gith, it actually makes sense. There's already a Grakk, so my Grakk is now Grik.
Mind Rogue 08-20-05, 10:34 PM	There's already a Grakk, so my Grakk is now Grik. It's amazing how many duplicate names we get here. There've now been two Grakks, two Shans, at least two Sashas, and several War and Deaths by different people. War and Death I can at least understand; after all everyone knows the horseman of the apocalypse and wants to build them, but if you're going to pull random syllables together, what are the odds of getting two Grakks?
Mind Rogue 08-20-05, 10:45 PM	@ Caterane I've noticed that I forgot to give Zahrat survival, so I was wondering if I could pluck a rank from Handle Animal, Knowledge (Nature), and Hide, seeing as I haven't actually used any of those skills (or at least all of my Handle Animal checks automatic successes anyway because I've only used it with my animal companion)
Gonbow 08-21-05, 12:55 AM	How does one handle languages for a non-standard character that doesn't have a language block listed? Specifically, I'm thinking about trying out a Krenshar; at ECL 4, it's only 4 credits, which is easy enough... So without further ado: Lortavos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7025033&postcount=430). Any suggestions would of course, be appreciated, I was planning on picking up a level of barbarian or psychic warrior next.
Caterane 08-21-05, 03:50 AM	@Snommelp: Basically, you can use any map you want for Arena Fights as long as both combatants and the Pitlord agree. @Mindrogue: What do you need survival for?
Pitlords 08-21-05, 04:32 AM	You can now earn credits by finding violations. For every 10 violations you find, you gain 1°. Part of this work is that you follow the guidelines the Prisonlord posted. The player of the violated player sends you a PM that he has corrected it, and you return to your post and edit the headline to "Violation fixed". I've posted a map for the timezones in the FAQ: Time. Thanks to NiQil, LLMadCow, and Mindrogue. You all get a credit for it. Mindrogue has made a timetable. I haven't added it to the FAQ as I think the map is enough but for those of you who want to save it, here it is: Deadline Table (9 PM GMT) Region GMT DST General American Samoa (no DST) -11 9 AM 10 AM Hawaii-Aleutian (no DST) -10 Noon 11 AM Alaskan Time Zone -9 1 PM Noon California (Pacific) -8 2 PM 1 PM Utah (Mountain) -7 3 PM 2 PM Illianois (Central US) -6 4 PM 3 PM New York (Eastern US) -5 5 PM 4 PM Indiana (Eastern: no DST)-5 ** 4 PM (Atlantic) -4 6 PM 5 PM Greenland -3 7 PM 6 PM Mid-Atlantic -2 8 PM 7 PM Cape Verde Isles -1 9 PM 8 PM Greenwhich Mean Time +0 ** 9 PM U.K. (Western Europe) +0 10 PM 9 PM Germany (Central Europe) +1 11 PM 10 PM Greece (Eastern Euro.) +2 Midnight 11 PM Moscow (2nd Russian) +3 1 AM Midnight Samara (3rd Russian) +4 2 AM 1 AM Yekaterinburg (4th Rus) +5 3 AM 2 AM India (No DST) +5.5 ** 2:30 AM Bangledesh (No DST) +6 4 AM 3 AM Thailand (No DST) +7 5 AM 4 AM China +8 6 AM 5 AM Western Australia +8 6 AM 5 AM Japan (No DST) +9 ** 6 AM Central Australia +9 7 AM 6 AM Eastern Australia +10 8 AM 7 AM New Caledonia +11 9 AM 8 AM New Zealand +12 10 AM 9 AM
NiQil 08-21-05, 05:05 AM	Are credits going to be given from when the Prison opened? Or is it just from this post going forward?
sloisel 08-21-05, 05:08 AM	Everybody knows about the hill giant were-boar. But have you tried our latest model? He's bigger, he's stronger, and he's badder: the ogre were-elasmosaurus. At 14 hit dice and +3LA it's yours for one easy payment of 56 credits. Sebastien Loisel
Pitlords 08-21-05, 05:25 AM	@NiQil: From the beginning on. Actually, your postings convinced MadCow (the Prisonlord) that this is worth credits. It must be a game-affecting violation though. Just reporting "He didn't begin his name with a capital letter!!" isn't enough.
Vathelokai 08-21-05, 05:26 AM	Alterself says you do not gain extraordinary abilities, but you do gain any gross physical attributes (such as wings). In the monster manual, merfolk have the extraordinary ability breathe water, so you would not get it. Aquatic elves have the unlabeled trait gills. If you become an aquatic elf, you would gain the gills, right?
NiQil 08-21-05, 05:32 AM	@NiQil: From the beginning on. Actually, your postings convinced MadCow (the Prisonlord) that this is worth credits. It must be a game-affecting violation though. Just reporting "He didn't begin his name with a capital letter!!" isn't enough. Cool beans....now I can earn a reputation as a narc LOL.
Delusional Illusion 08-21-05, 05:50 AM	I've just finished my character. Could anyone take a quick look at it if I have made any mistakes? Thanks. Wlandra (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7009527&postcount=425)
Pitlords 08-21-05, 06:51 AM	Due to the recent increase in board functions, I have redefined the purpose of the Elders, as well as some other changes. - The Council of Elders has been disbanded. This thread won't perform any function anymore. Votes on unclear D&D rules will be made in a seperate Poll that I open if such an issue is up. - The Elders Discussion Forum has been dissolved. It has never worked the way I wanted it to work because of lack of participation. There's also no need for a divide between Elders opinions and Commoners opinions. - The House of Commons will be renamed in Council of Gladius! It has proven to be very efficient in solving problems, and to preserve its efficiency, I've written some guidelines for this new Council (1st post). - All old missing Elders have been demoted. I cannot wait for them to return one day, if at all. It is written in the FAQ. - The new Elders are Pittbull, LLMadCow, Tellish of Ket, King Uther, and Huan. - The purpose of being an Elder has been redefined. Elders will still vote on unclear rules regarding the D&D system but will do so in a poll but this will now be only a side-function. Every Elder gets a Domain - an aspect of the Core Coliseum - over which he has authority. His word is law in his domain (I will only overrule it if there's a reason). - We also have new Board Accounts. Pitlords is clear (GM Avatar), Prisonlords is for the Prison which is LLMadCow's Domain. Guildlords is for everything related to Guilds which is the Domain of Tellish of Ket. Scribelords will be jointly used by King Uther and Huan and is used for the World of Gladius and the Tales of Gladius. Uther also has the Quest Domain whereas Huan has the Campaign Domain. Pittbull has the Tooth Domain, so if your teeth ache, send him a PM. - That also means that you now have to send anything related to that domain to the Elder whose domain it is. Questlords, for example, should send their maps and calculations to King Uther.
Snommelp 08-21-05, 06:51 AM	It's amazing how many duplicate names we get here. There've now been two Grakks, two Shans, at least two Sashas, and several War and Deaths by different people. War and Death I can at least understand; after all everyone knows the horseman of the apocalypse and wants to build them, but if you're going to pull random syllables together, what are the odds of getting two Grakks? I don't know where the other Grakk came from, but mine sounded similar to goblin words in a comic I read, those words being Gratt and Grik. @ DI: Your BAB is only +2, not +6. Other than that, I see no errors. However, it's almost 4 AM here, so I might have missed something. Good morning. Happy birthday to me...
Delusional Illusion 08-21-05, 07:07 AM	Thanks Snommelp. Multiple edits always leave odd mistakes. And Happy Birthday :)
Pittbull 08-21-05, 07:54 AM	OH YES! :rimshot: Happy Birthday TO YOU!! I wish you all the best, Snommelp! P.S.: I used only size 6 because LLMadCow has the copy-right for size 7! ;)
Caterane 08-21-05, 08:50 AM	Happy Birthday Snommelp! 20 years old? I've never been that young Hm, perhaps I should give out Birthday Credits. That encourages people to tell me their birthdays for the Birthday List. Yes, I think that's cool :cool: Snommelp +1° :D
Mind Rogue 08-21-05, 10:19 AM	@Snommelp: Basically, you can use any map you want for Arena Fights as long as both combatants and the Pitlord agree. @Mindrogue: What do you need survival for? It's one of those things that I feel bad about having a druid without survival. That and there is the incredibly likely chance that I am going to be joining Tellish's campaign, and survival might come in handy out there. Say, Tellish, how far in are you guys? Is it still costing five credits to come in as a relief pitcher, or is it getting chopped down to 4? Either way, I think I've got them (I haven't been spending any yet). ~Sings~ Happy Birthday [Stomp] It's Your Birthday [Stomp] Death, Destruction and Despair, People Dying Everywhere, so Happy Birthday [Stomp] It's Your Birthday [Stomp]...
Altaris13 08-21-05, 10:24 AM	Happy Birthday Snommelp! 20 years old? I've never been that young Hm, perhaps I should give out Birthday Credits. That encourages people to tell me their birthdays for the Birthday List. Yes, I think that's cool :cool: Snommelp +1° :D Hey, cool! My 27th is this Wednesday the 24th.
Altaris13 08-21-05, 10:32 AM	Everybody knows about the hill giant were-boar. But have you tried our latest model? He's bigger, he's stronger, and he's badder: the ogre were-elasmosaurus. At 14 hit dice and +3LA it's yours for one easy payment of 56 credits. Sebastien Loisel Any chance I can finance that cost? :D
TelinArtho 08-21-05, 11:29 AM	@Xanadu - tried to send another message but your inbox is full, this also applies to ToK's undead, so it might be worth saying to the whole group: One more thing - skeletons are not proficient with bows - they are proficient with all simple weapons and any weapon found in their entry in the SRD. —Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry. —Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor. This was retracted because I found out that I was wrong.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-21-05, 12:04 PM	Happy Birthday Snommelp! 20 years old? I've never been that young Hm, perhaps I should give out Birthday Credits. That encourages people to tell me their birthdays for the Birthday List. Yes, I think that's cool :cool: Snommelp +1° :D Ugh, I just looked at the birthday list. I feel like such an old man.  Say, Tellish, how far in are you guys? Is it still costing five credits to come in as a relief pitcher, or is it getting chopped down to 4? Either way, I think I've got them (I haven't been spending any yet). Out of 38'ish encounters, we’ve completed 7. One the -1° to enter after the first full month, you’d have to PM Cat about that one. Everybody knows about the hill giant were-boar. But have you tried our latest model? He's bigger, he's stronger, and he's badder: the ogre were-elasmosaurus. At 14 hit dice and +3LA it's yours for one easy payment of 56 credits. Sebastien Loisel It’s actually +5 LA (you forgot the ogre’s LA), and 64 Credits starting at ECL 19…honestly, it’s very weak at that ECL. But hey, why stop there. Why not a Troll Were-Orca? +28 str, +8 dex, +22 con, -4 int, -8 cha [+9orca hd + 6troll hd +11LA = ECL 26] for the super low cost of 92 credits. So, King Uther, you want something to spend your credits on? There ya go. lol **EDIT** But hey, for you DM's out there, it would be a CR 11 creature. I guarantee you almost any ECL 10 party will poop their pants when they see this sucka' gunning for them. -ToK
Mind Rogue 08-21-05, 12:44 PM	Oh, well I guess this isn't that far in. I'll just foot the bill, since I haven't really been spending credits on anything else.
sloisel 08-21-05, 01:22 PM	Have you read over the new harvester...halfgiant...expansion...armo r spikes... And this season, all sensible half-giants strut down the catwalk in Christian Dior gloves of Titan's Grip. Oh so glamorous, and any independent girl with a positive outlook can afford one (as seen on Queer Eye for the Straight Guy!) http://d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#glovesofTitansGrip Sebastien Loisel
Tellish_of_Ket 08-21-05, 03:11 PM	Desperately Seeking Formater.. I've seen some people do great spacing and formating with their codes on sheets and stuff, so don't suppose someone can give a hand to a frustrated formatter? 1.....Entrance a-b) Secret Entrances___11........Library 2.....Courtyard_______________________12 a-c..Lecture Halls 101-103 2a....Well (sewer access)_____________13.......Combat Training Room 3.....Stabling Area__________________13a.....Training Kit Storage Room 4.....Feed/Stocks/Supplies for animals__14......R & D Department 5.....Dust-off area__________________15......Garden/Arboritum 6.....Kitchen_______________________16.. ....Senior Officer Tactical Room 7.....Dining Hall_____________________17......Senior Officer Lounge 8.....Main Sleeping Quarters__________18......Murder-Hole Guard room 8a....On-Shift Supervisor's Bed________19......Deputy Directors Office 9.....Ready Room___________________20.....Personel Department 10....Hallway a) access tunnel_________21.....Secretary's Office If someone could kindly format that so the columns are even, that would be much appreciated. I've been at it for awhile to no avail, and as you can see, it's quite the mess. -ToK
sloisel 08-21-05, 03:17 PM	1.....Entrance a-b) Secret Entrances___11......Library 2.....Courtyard________________________1 2a-c...Lecture Halls 101-103 2a....Well (sewer access)______________13.......Combat Training Room 3.....Stabling Area____________________13a.....Training Kit Storage Room 4.....Feed/Stocks/Supplies for animals_14......R & D Department 5.....Dust-off area____________________15......Garden/Arboritum 6.....Kitchen__________________________1 6......Senior Officer Tactical Room 7.....Dining Hall______________________17......Senio r Officer Lounge 8.....Main Sleeping Quarters___________18......Murder-Hole Guard room 8a....On-Shift Supervisor's Bed________19......Deputy Directors Office 9.....Ready Room_______________________20......Perso nel Department 10....Hallway a) access tunnel_________21......Secretary's Office Cut-and-paste into notepad, make sure you're in fixed width font, and edit away, then cut-and-paste back. In my browser, the 12 and 16 are weird, but I don't know why. Sebastien Loisel
Vathelokai 08-21-05, 03:22 PM	1.....Entrance a-b) Secret Entrances______11........Library 2.....Courtyard_________________________ 12 a-c....Lecture Halls 101-103 2a....Well (sewer access)_________________13........Combat Training Room 3.....Stabling Area_______________________13a.......Tra ining Kit Storage Room 4.....Feed/Stocks/Supplies for animals____14........R & D Department 5.....Dust-off area_______________________15........Gar den/Arboritum 6.....Kitchen___________________________ 16........Senior Officer Tactical Room 7.....Dining Hall_________________________17........S enior Officer Lounge 8.....Main Sleeping Quarters______________18........Murder-Hole Guard room 8a....On-Shift Supervisor's Bed___________19........Deputy Directors Office 9.....Ready Room__________________________20.......P ersonel Department 10....Hallway a) access tunnel____________21........Secretary's Office This look better? For some reason, 2 spaces keep inserting themselves at specific points, and I can't get rid of them. It might be a firefox thing. It gets wierd on the boards sometimes.
NiQil 08-21-05, 03:31 PM	Desperately Seeking Formater.. I've seen some people do great spacing and formating with their codes on sheets and stuff, so don't suppose someone can give a hand to a frustrated formatter? 1.....Entrance a-b) Secret Entrances___11........Library 2.....Courtyard_______________________12 a-c..Lecture Halls 101-103 2a....Well (sewer access)_____________13.......Combat Training Room 3.....Stabling Area__________________13a.....Training Kit Storage Room 4.....Feed/Stocks/Supplies for animals__14......R & D Department 5.....Dust-off area__________________15......Garden/Arboritum 6.....Kitchen_______________________16.. ....Senior Officer Tactical Room 7.....Dining Hall_____________________17......Senior Officer Lounge 8.....Main Sleeping Quarters__________18......Murder-Hole Guard room 8a....On-Shift Supervisor's Bed________19......Deputy Directors Office 9.....Ready Room___________________20.....Personel Department 10....Hallway a) access tunnel_________21.....Secretary's Office If someone could kindly format that so the columns are even, that would be much appreciated. I've been at it for awhile to no avail, and as you can see, it's quite the mess. -ToK See if this works more to your liking... 01________Entrance a-b Secret Entrances 02________Courtyard 02a_______Well (sewer access) 03________Stabling Area 04________Feed/Stocks/Supplies for animals 05________Dust-off area 06________Kitchen 07________Dining Hall 08________Main Sleeping Quarters 08a_______On-Shift Supervisor's Bed 09________Ready Room 10________Hallway a) access tunnel 11________Library 12a-c_____Lecture Halls 101-103 13________Combat Training Room 13a_______Training Kit Storage Room 14________R & D Department 15________Garden/Arboritum 16________Senior Officer Tactical Room 17________Senior Officer Lounge 18________Murder-Hole Guard room 19________Deputy Directors Office 20________Personel Department 21________Secretary's Office If you would like it in the 2 column format you had kinda started, I can easily redo it for that.....but I personally prefer this. But it's your info :)
xanadu 08-21-05, 03:33 PM	Due to the recent increase in board functions, I have redefined the purpose of the Elders, as well as some other changes. - The Council of Elders has been disbanded. This thread won't perform any function anymore. Votes on unclear D&D rules will be made in a seperate Poll that I open if such an issue is up. - The Elders Discussion Forum has been dissolved. It has never worked the way I wanted it to work because of lack of participation. There's also no need for a divide between Elders opinions and Commoners opinions. - The House of Commons will be renamed in Council of Gladius! It has proven to be very efficient in solving problems, and to preserve its efficiency, I've written some guidelines for this new Council (1st post). - All old missing Elders have been demoted. I cannot wait for them to return one day, if at all. It is written in the FAQ. - The new Elders are Pittbull, LLMadCow, Tellish of Ket, King Uther, and Huan. - The purpose of being an Elder has been redefined. Elders will still vote on unclear rules regarding the D&D system but will do so in a poll but this will now be only a side-function. Every Elder gets a Domain - an aspect of the Core Coliseum - over which he has authority. His word is law in his domain (I will only overrule it if there's a reason). - We also have new Board Accounts. Pitlords is clear (GM Avatar), Prisonlords is for the Prison which is LLMadCow's Domain. Guildlords is for everything related to Guilds which is the Domain of Tellish of Ket. Scribelords will be jointly used by King Uther and Huan and is used for the World of Gladius and the Tales of Gladius. Uther also has the Quest Domain whereas Huan has the Campaign Domain. Pittbull has the Tooth Domain, so if your teeth ache, send him a PM. - That also means that you now have to send anything related to that domain to the Elder whose domain it is. Questlords, for example, should send their maps and calculations to King Uther. Egalitarianism! CoCo is drifting into a consitutional monarchy, Pitlords better stage a counter-revolution before any claims to emperor/King fall on deaf ears :D
Vathelokai 08-21-05, 03:37 PM	Trust me, it's a pupet government. Cat is the emporer. :P
Gonbow 08-21-05, 03:48 PM	@Vathelokai Tactics for Yasha sent via pm... tossed it to the wrong person earlier, when the pairings were different.
Meek Head 08-21-05, 03:50 PM	Handle Animal question: Can a character gain gp from training animals like a profession? If not, why not and how is that fair?
Tellish_of_Ket 08-21-05, 03:51 PM	Trust me, it's a puppet government. Cat is the emporer. :P Well, he finally got what he wanted. lol. After I left, he just slid right in there. HAhA. Well, we couldn't ask for a more devoted emperor anyhow. -ToK
Vathelokai 08-21-05, 04:02 PM	@Vathelokai Tactics for Yasha sent via pm... tossed it to the wrong person earlier, when the pairings were different. Both tactics recieved. I'm busy right now, but I will start running it in a few hours.
Zerone 08-21-05, 04:03 PM	1 Entrance a-b) Secret Entrances 11 Library 2 Courtyard 12a-c Lecture Halls 101-103 2a Well (sewer access 13 Combat Training Room 3 Stabling Area 13a Training Kit Storage Room 4 Feed/Stocks/Supplies for animals 14 R & D Department 5 Dust-off area 15 Garden/Arboritum 6 Kitchen 16 Senior Officer Tactical Room 7 Dining Hall 17 Senior Officer Lounge 8 Main Sleeping Quarters 18 Murder-Hole Guard room 8a On-Shift Supervisor's Bed 19 Deputy Directors Office 9 Ready Room 20 Personel Department 10 Hallway a) access tunnel 21 Secretary's Office 1 Entrance a-b) Secret Entrances 2 Courtyard 2a Well (sewer access 3 Stabling Area 4 Feed/Stocks/Supplies for animals 5 Dust-off area 6 Kitchen 7 Dining Hall 8 Main Sleeping Quarters 8a On-Shift Supervisor's Bed 9 Ready Room 10 Hallway a) access tunnel 11 Library 12a-c Lecture Halls 101-103 13 Combat Training Room 13a Training Kit Storage Room 14 R & D Department 15 Garden/Arboritum 16 Senior Officer Tactical Room 17 Senior Officer Lounge 18 Murder-Hole Guard room 19 Deputy Directors Office 20 Personel Department 21 Secretary's Office Hope these cleaner versions help. *•. Z
NiQil 08-21-05, 04:04 PM	Handle Animal question: Can a character gain gp from training animals like a profession? If not, why not and how is that fair? Your question answers itself. To earn gold, it would not be the Handle Animal Skill that would be used....it would be Profession: Animal Trainer.
Vathelokai 08-21-05, 04:05 PM	Handle Animal question: Can a character gain gp from training animals like a profession? If not, why not and how is that fair? You could technicly make money with any skill. But here it has been ruled that any skill you could use to benifit yourself in the arena (like training animals to fight) cannot be used to make money. That's why skills like profession, appraise, etc have been given the ability to produce money. It's not really fair, but according to the elders, it keeps things balanced. You could look into buying untrained animals cheap, then selling them trained. There might be a profit in that, and there is no rule against it.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-21-05, 04:06 PM	You could technicly make money with any skill. But here it has been ruled that any skill you could use to benifit yourself in the arena (like training animals to fight) cannot be used to make money. That's why skills like profession, appraise, etc have been given the ability to produce money. It's not really fair, but according to the elders, it keeps things balanced. You could look into buying untrained animals cheap, then selling them trained. There might be a profit in that, and there is no rule against it. Or mini-questing for an animal, taking the time to train it, then sell it off? -ToK **EDIT ZERONE is the code God!!
Caterane 08-21-05, 07:57 PM	I am GM since the first day this board came to life and have worked with several different constellations - together with two GMs, with one GM, alone - as well as different Council of Elders manifestations, but the current system is the best and most efficient one by far. We've never made so much progress than during this year and the new Elder Domains will only improve it. They will do a great job, of that I am sure. There might be more domains in the future for additions we don't know about yet, but I am sure there's no shortage of volunteers for those positions. Additionally, the House of Commons, now known as Council of Gladius will provide us with new ideas, and everyone can participate, is even asked to participate. These are the main reasons for the changes I announced above. It gives the Elders more power and responsibility, and the voices of everyone will be heard better through the Council. This is IMO a good thing.
McJarvis 08-21-05, 09:35 PM	h'mm
LLMadCow 08-21-05, 09:54 PM	@Everyone! Check out this cool, new utility brought to you by our very favorite Sovelior. Check out the On-Screen DM Screen (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/toolsScreen.html) and see how much time and effort it can save you when running fights! LL
Vathelokai 08-21-05, 11:49 PM	Or mini-questing for an animal, taking the time to train it, then sell it off? That's what I ment. Thanks for clarifying. I am GM since the first day this board came to life and have worked with several different constellations... All the emporer jokes getting to you? :D That is the rule after all, 'the DM is in charge.' No offense; I'm just cracking jokes.
Emrys Donovan 08-21-05, 11:53 PM	Hey, I'm new here, and was wondering if anyone had AIM? My sn is TAMUs12thMan. I think I've got everything down, except for how to calculate encumberance. Could someone im me and help? Thanks in advance.
Vathelokai 08-22-05, 12:10 AM	Try this link. (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/carryingAndExploration.html) This is the ultimate rules site. Bookmark it. It is your friend.
nightbanegod 08-22-05, 12:17 AM	im afraid your incorrect vathelokai.... for if you scroll through that website you will find info added there that is not allowed in the CoCo... which is why i will redirect anybody whos interested to the REAL SRD (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35)... and you will see that when you click on this link ... you are infact ... NOT leaving the wizards of the coast website... alas this is not as fun to navigate however
Tellish_of_Ket 08-22-05, 12:35 AM	@Everyone! Check out this cool, new utility brought to you by our very favorite Sovelior. Check out the On-Screen DM Screen (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/toolsScreen.html) and see how much time and effort it can save you when running fights! LL WOOT! That made my bookmark in less than 2 seconds. -ToK
nightbanegod 08-22-05, 12:36 AM	ive got a question for thrikreens... why aren't they allowed as a race? they are in the expanded psionics handbook 3.5 ... even listed under races with elan, half giant, duerger, maenids,xeph,dromites and whatnot.... so whats wrong with them? they got no more adjustment than a Sahuagin, which seems to be a tough competitor recently... so what did they do wrong to be blacklisted?
Vathelokai 08-22-05, 12:48 AM	im afraid your incorrect vathelokai.... for if you scroll through that website you will find info added there that is not allowed in the CoCo... which is why i will redirect anybody whos interested to the REAL SRD (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35)... and you will see that when you click on this link ... you are infact ... NOT leaving the wizards of the coast website... alas this is not as fun to navigate however Could you direct me to the 'not core' info in my site? I didn't know it was there. I may have used some rules incorrectly. I'm willing to chance using the 'not official' site, just because it is so easy to navigate.
Snommelp 08-22-05, 01:07 AM	ive got a question for thrikreens... why aren't they allowed as a race? they are in the expanded psionics handbook 3.5 ... even listed under races with elan, half giant, duerger, maenids,xeph,dromites and whatnot.... so whats wrong with them? they got no more adjustment than a Sahuagin, which seems to be a tough competitor recently... so what did they do wrong to be blacklisted? They got blacklisted because they're not in the SRD. It's not unreasonable to assume that people here will have the core rulebooks, seeing as they're sort of necessary. A lot of people don't use psionics, though, and frankly a lot of pitlords would probably get upset if they had to go spend an extra $20 (or is it $30?) on the off chance that they should run a fight with something in the XPH that isn't also in the SRD.
NiQil 08-22-05, 01:10 AM	Could you direct me to the 'not core' info in my site? I didn't know it was there. I may have used some rules incorrectly. I'm willing to chance using the 'not official' site, just because it is so easy to navigate. In my experience, it is not that there is non-core material there so much as there are things left out that are in the WotC SRD. I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but I know that I have run across a couple of things that the SRD has that the unofficial SRD does not. And not very many things...but enough that I generally only use the non-official version if I am building a character or something because it is quicker. But I can't say that I have run across anything that is non-core.
Pitlords 08-22-05, 03:13 AM	Hey, cool! My 27th is this Wednesday the 24th. Which year?
Altaris13 08-22-05, 07:18 AM	Which year? 1978...
Altaris13 08-22-05, 07:20 AM	Hey, I'm new here, and was wondering if anyone had AIM? My sn is TAMUs12thMan. I think I've got everything down, except for how to calculate encumberance. Could someone im me and help? Thanks in advance. Welcome to CoCo!!! If you need any help, drop me a PM.
Caterane 08-22-05, 07:44 AM	@Vathelokai: Don't worry. It's funny :)
Maraxus 08-22-05, 07:53 AM	Not that it matters to me now but is this D&D only, or could we also use the D20-SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm). There is some unearthed arcana stuff. The problem is, that some of this is defintly for a group, with a dm, who controlls it. But other (battle sorcerer, racial paragon classes) could be useable here, too.
sloisel 08-22-05, 07:57 AM	@Maraxus, why not a buckler on your mythos dude? +1 ac, and you can still shoot arrows and swing your pick.
Maraxus 08-22-05, 08:15 AM	First he had one but then I thought "Hey, I shoot most of the time - The effect would be minimal" - maybe he will get one one day. Should at least be a masterwork one, because the 1 point of armor check penalty is definitly more then the 1 point of AC while not shooting. ...Oh yes, and it makes thinks more dificult for the pitlord. ;)
TelinArtho 08-22-05, 01:00 PM	@Cat/Pitlords - did you see the discussion from Friday about training for "war" and the acceptability of having animals, familiars, etc using armor? Essentially, I want to know what tricks are needed to train something for "war" - which would enable something to use armor. Some ideas presented have been Combat Riding (in which case, there are some violations (Including some of Cat's characters...)) or Fighting (which seems most reasonable to me) or simply the Attack trick (which seems a little light - but fine with me). The end goal is to find out whether or not Vermin (3 tricks) under handle animal can be trained to use armor. /d
Aramil Dunskar 08-22-05, 01:28 PM	@Pitlords: I am back from GenCon, so you can make me an active Pitlord again. -Aramil
michael_noah 08-22-05, 01:45 PM	Maybe I missed something important in the argument about companions/familiars/etc using armor, but the answer seems rather obvious. Nothing stops these things from using armor, but in order to do so without a penalty, they need the requisite proficiency. Familiars, unfortunately, don't have a way to get this, but, well, that's that.
NiQil 08-22-05, 01:49 PM	Maybe I missed something important in the argument about companions/familiars/etc using armor, but the answer seems rather obvious. Nothing stops these things from using armor, but in order to do so without a penalty, they need the requisite proficiency. Familiars, unfortunately, don't have a way to get this, but, well, that's that. The problem is that there are no proficiencies for "barding." If you are referring to the armor proficiences, I don't think those would apply to animals and magical creatures. Also, we have been looking at the aspect of whether a creature is "trained for war" as it states with regard to warhorses, riding dogs, and warponies. You might want to scroll back through the last couple of pages of this thread for the conversation...everyone was kind of in a general agreeance that it would be based off of the determination of what "trained for war" meant....we are just waiting to see exactly how that is defined.
michael_noah 08-22-05, 01:53 PM	Well, I don't think there's actually a definition for "barding" in DnD. It's just armor made for an animal, or magical beast, or whatever. That's why it costs what armor made for a non-humanoid (usually large) thing costs, and has the same statistics. Being "trained for war" is described pretty well, in that a thing knows those certain tricks, and that one need not make ride checks to control it in battle. It says nothing about granting it proficiency, so it doesn't.
TelinArtho 08-22-05, 01:53 PM	Right - but I'm trying to figure out what the "requisite proficiency" is. All that has been concretely identified is that they must be "trained for war" - but this is not actually listed in the Handle Animal skill. If it is "Combat Riding" - then some of the allies that I listed before are in violation (either for not listing the penalty to attacks or for not giving them the right tricks). Also, if it is Combat Riding, then no creature with an intelligence of 1 can use armor, because you need 6 tricks to do it. If it is "Fighting", then all animals with Int 1 and 2 can wear barding if trained to do so. Also, I believe all of the allies I mentioned (other than familiars) are correctly listed then. This would also mean my vermin allies will be able to wear barding efficiently. My goal is to remove the penalty for fighting in barding for the vermin. EDIT - Where is "trained for war" clearly described? I haven't found any clear reference as to what tricks it is assigning.
NiQil 08-22-05, 01:59 PM	Also, as far as I know, there are no feats for armor proficiencies for monsters/magical creatures/animals in any of the core books. I have not looked, but I don't remember any. The only thing that has been pinned down for sure is that for an animal or creature to wear barding, it must be trained for war. So we need a definition for being trained for war to be ruled on. And I guess we may also need a ruling as to whether animals/monsters/magical beasts can use PC feats without having any character classes.....I am guessing no. So if we use the armor proficiency feats, then *no creature without character levels could wear barding. And that just doesn't seem correct. The "trained for war" is what we all kinda agreed made the most sense....so we are trying to get a ruling as to exactly what "trained for war" means with relation to the tricks they must know.
michael_noah 08-22-05, 02:00 PM	This is, I believe, the generally accepted definition of "trained for war" Combat Riding (DC 20): An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. Training an animal for combat riding takes six weeks. You may also “upgrade” an animal trained for riding to one trained for combat riding by spending three weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal’s previous purpose and any tricks it once knew. Warhorses and riding dogs are already trained to bear riders into combat, and they don’t require any additional training for this purpose. This is barding: Barding, Medium Creature and Large Creature Barding is a type of armor that covers the head, neck, chest, body, and possibly legs of a horse or other mount. Barding made of medium or heavy armor provides better protection than light barding, but at the expense of speed. Barding can be made of any of the armor types found on Table: Armor and Shields. Armor for a horse (a Large nonhumanoid creature) costs four times as much as armor for a human (a Medium humanoid creature) and also weighs twice as much as the armor found on Table: Armor and Shields (see Armor for Unusual Creatures). If the barding is for a pony or other Medium mount, the cost is only double, and the weight is the same as for Medium armor worn by a humanoid. Medium or heavy barding slows a mount that wears it, as shown on the table below. Flying mounts can’t fly in medium or heavy barding. Removing and fitting barding takes five times as long as the figures given on Table: Donning Armor. A barded animal cannot be used to carry any load other than the rider and normal saddlebags. So, barding is armor. That means that it uses the same rules as armor. If you want your companion to use light barding, and you don't want it to take penalties from non-proficiency, you need to get it the feat Armor Proficiency (light). I am not sure where this quote about needing to be "trained for war" came from. Can someone direct me to it?
NiQil 08-22-05, 02:07 PM	This is, I believe, the generally accepted definition of "trained for war" This is barding: So, barding is armor. That means that it uses the same rules as armor. If you want your companion to use light barding, and you don't want it to take penalties from non-proficiency, you need to get it the feat Armor Proficiency (light). I am not sure where this quote about needing to be "trained for war" came from. Can someone direct me to it? But again we run into the same question....can animals take PC proficiencies without having PC levels? I was under the impression you could not....that for animals to use them they had to be granted by bonus feats.
TelinArtho 08-22-05, 02:11 PM	I have a hard time accepting that it is the "generally accepted definition" of trained for war, mostly because there's a fair amount of discussion from when I brought it up on Friday. Also, there is the Fighting general purpose in the Handle Animal skill - and Fighting, at least to me, would seem reasonable to train an animal to wear armor. And then there's also the factor that if it is Combat riding to be used, then I'm going to have to throw a few prominent members of the CoCo into prison... Edit- as to where the "trained for war" comes from, take a look in the Types/Subtypes section of the SRD: Animal Type: An animal is a living, nonhuman creature, usually a vertebrate with no magical abilities and no innate capacity for language or culture. Features: An animal has the following features (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry). —d8 Hit Dice. —Base attack bonus equal to 3/4 total Hit Dice (as cleric). —Good Fortitude and Reflex saves (certain animals have different good saves). —Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die. Traits: An animal possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry). —Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal). —Low-light vision. —Alignment: Always neutral. —Treasure: None. —Proficient with its natural weapons only. A noncombative herbivore uses its natural weapons as a secondary attack. Such attacks are made with a –5 penalty on the creature’s attack rolls, and the animal receives only 1/2 its Strength modifier as a damage adjustment. —Proficient with no armor unless trained for war. —Animals eat, sleep, and breathe. Emphasis mine.
michael_noah 08-22-05, 02:13 PM	Anyone can take any feat they want that they meet the prerequisites for. Is the question actually, "will the DMs at CoCo allow us to choose feats for our companions, or must they take those listed in their stat block in the SRD?"? Because that's a good question. It seems that we should certainly be able to choose feats for our companions if they gain bonus hit dice (a la druid companion), or if we advance them (a la paying credits, etc.). It's my belief that one should be able to choose all of the feats, but that's just me.
michael_noah 08-22-05, 02:15 PM	I have a hard time accepting that it is the "generally accepted definition" of trained for war, mostly because there's a fair amount of discussion from when I brought it up on Friday. Also, there is the Fighting general purpose in the Handle Animal skill - and Fighting, at least to me, would seem reasonable to train an animal to wear armor. And then there's also the factor that if it is Combat riding to be used, then I'm going to have to throw a few prominent members of the CoCo into prison... Well, here's how I would take it. Nowhere does a rule state that one can grant an animal feats by using handle animal. I don't think there's any way that CoCo should allow this. The entry in the animal type states that any animal not "trained for war" is not proficient in any armor. If doesn't state that any other animals are proficient. I'll agree that it implies it, but that's not much. In the end, I think that any creature needs to have the feat Armor Proficiency in order to use armor without penalty, and I don't think we should be giving those feats away for free, or because of a skill.
NiQil 08-22-05, 02:18 PM	After going through the SRD with regard to Monsters, I would have to agree with Michael Noah that for creatures to use barding, they have to have armor proficiencies. Creatures gain feats just like PC's do, and since the Armor Proficiency feats are listed as General, I have run into no reason why an animal could not take them. So most animals in the ECL 3, 4, and 5 leagues will not be able to use barding, because they are required to be of lower ECL's than their "owners", meaning that they will not have progressed far enough to earn additional feats beyond what are outlined for them as a level one creature. So I would have to say, Telin, to start jailing away.
TelinArtho 08-22-05, 02:21 PM	I think I'll wait for Cat's take on this before I do. Frankly, I'm not satisfied that the three of us have actually agreed on it at all - and, like I said, this affects a lot of people. So better to get it right and then put people in prison. Also, if the requirement is they have the armor proficiency feat, then all warhorses would be in violation. Also, note that a riding dog is NOT trained for war... just that it is trained for riding.
NiQil 08-22-05, 02:26 PM	I think I'll wait for Cat's take on this before I do. Frankly, I'm not satisfied that the three of us have actually agreed on it at all - and, like I said, this affects a lot of people. So better to get it right and then put people in prison. Also, if the requirement is they have the armor proficiency feat, then all warhorses would be in violation. Also, note that a riding dog is NOT trained for war... just that it is trained for riding. Except, a riding dog *can be trained for war...but otherwise yes, they do not come initially trained for war. I even have a backup character (goblin rogue) who has a riding dog as his mount who has the combat riding package....but doesn't wear barding, thankfully LOL But yes, I agree, lets err on the side of caution....we need to get some Elder/Cat attention on this one. Cause lots of people might have to make changes if proficiencies are required for barding.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-22-05, 03:13 PM	No. There is no RAW to support any of the claims. You are cut/pasting from various sources and rules that apply to PC's and others that apply to mounts and coming up with your own conclusions. They do not relate. Any animal trained to fight can use barding. -ToK
NiQil 08-22-05, 03:17 PM	No. There is no RAW to support any of the claims. You are cut/pasting from various sources and rules that apply to PC's and others that apply to mounts and coming up with your own conclusions. They do not relate. Any animal trained to fight can use barding. -ToK Thank you Elder Tellish (congrats on the promo, BTW). Now, can you answer part two of the issue, and define what constitutes "trained for war" as listed under the animal section in the SRD? We are wondering whether it requires the full Combat Riding regime (see Handle Animal skill), or something lesser.
michael_noah 08-22-05, 03:19 PM	No. There is no RAW to support any of the claims. You are cut/pasting from various sources and rules that apply to PC's and others that apply to mounts and coming up with your own conclusions. They do not relate. Any animal trained to fight can use barding. -ToK Of course they can. Anyone can use armor, too. However, if they are not proficient, they take the armor check penalty to all attacks and all skills that require movement. What I posted above is quite clear - Barding is a type of armor. The rest of the passage even goes on to talk about armor.
TelinArtho 08-22-05, 05:00 PM	And Pittbull just posted a response in the House of Commons saying that Combat Riding would be required... I just want a hard decision on the matter. If its combat riding, I'll start putting people in prison. If its fighting, I'll start training my vermin with barding... /d
Snommelp 08-22-05, 05:02 PM	michael_noah, I know you've gotten really into this debate, but surely you must see that this is a rules disparity. The RAW do not clearly spell out what is needed for an unintelligent animal to effectively wear barding. I could argue your side just as easily as I could argue your opponent's side, because there is no clear answer. In cases like this, the ruling of an elder (i.e. ToK) is final, unless overturned by a DM (i.e. Cat). Unless Cat overturns ToK's decision, all war trained animals are considered proficient with barding. Note, however, that Pittbull has also made a ruling. They aren't necessarily contradictory, of course; it all depends on your perspective.
michael_noah 08-22-05, 05:06 PM	I understand that, I just think it's a bad ruling to make. In fact, if that's an official Elder ruling, I would like to call on Cat to judge on it, and hopefully change it. What ToK is saying is that the statement, "Proficient with no armor unless trained for war." means, "Proficiency with all armor if trained for war." Then deciding on a definition for "trained for war" when none is given in the rules (though it's a fair definition). This thereby gives a free feat to animals, no, 3 free feats to animals merely by having someone with some ranks in a skill. That seems pretty wrong to me.
TelinArtho 08-22-05, 05:09 PM	Well, Cat has finally spoken up and is setting up a poll on the matter. So we can let it rest until that is set up.
Caterane 08-22-05, 05:52 PM	The point is that horses do not gain feats (no advancement) which would mean that there wouldn't be any warhorses with barding around. This clearly cannot be. We have one reference ("proficient with armor if trained for war") that implies that it is possible for warhorses to wear barding (and Michael, I don't think they mean 'wearing yes but with penalty' Note the word 'proficient'). We have now three different options what 'trained for war' could mean: (1) All 6 tricks of the Combat Riding package (2) The 3 tricks of the Fighting package (3) The attack trick Unless someone enlights us (with facts) we have to come up with our own definition of being trained for war. PS: If an Elder states something, then this is their opinion, not a board rule (unless there was an official voting on it in a poll). Just to prevent any confusion in the future: Elders vote on unclear rules related to the D&D system, or things like banning a spell, etc and it will be done in a poll. Rules related to the working of the board itself are made by me. Hope that clears things up a bit.
SodaGuy 08-22-05, 06:33 PM	Well, Milo Tad (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6672616#post6672616) just hit the 2000 gp mark and is looking to buy some cool items. But I have no idea what to get. Anyone have a suggestion?
NiQil 08-22-05, 06:36 PM	Well, Milo Tad (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6672616#post6672616) just hit the 2000 gp mark and is looking to buy some cool items. But I have no idea what to get. Anyone have a suggestion? Since you appear to be primarily an archer, I think the obvious recommendation would be a +1 enhancement to your bow.
SodaGuy 08-22-05, 06:47 PM	You can add an enhancement to a pre-existing weapon? Man, this game has a lot of rules that I don't know.
TelinArtho 08-22-05, 06:48 PM	As long as the weapon is Masterwork - yes you can add an enhancement to it. If it is already magical, you can further enchant it too.
NiQil 08-22-05, 06:54 PM	You can add an enhancement to a pre-existing weapon? Man, this game has a lot of rules that I don't know. Yep...pay the 2000 gp and you now have yourself a +1 bow...add +1 to your damage in addition to the +1 you are already getting from it being masterwork. Or, you can look at the other enhancements that cost the same as a +1 enhancement and add one of those....however it is generally considered more economical to add the normal magical enhancements (+1, +2, etc) onto your bow, and save the other stuff (the flaming quality is a +1 enhancement, for example, as is the frost quality, which would add an additional 1d6 fire or cold damage, respectively) for arrows, since you can only have so many enhancements on any one weapon. If it were me, I would add the +1 enhancement to the bow.
Luni 08-22-05, 06:56 PM	Yep...pay the 2000 gp and you now have yourself a +1 bow...add +1 to your damage in addition to the +1 you are already getting from it being masterwork. Or, you can look at the other enhancements that cost the same as a +1 enhancement and add one of those....however it is generally considered more economical to add the normal magical enhancements (+1, +2, etc) onto your bow, and save the other stuff (the flaming quality is a +1 enhancement, for example, as is the frost quality, which would add an additional 1d6 fire or cold damage, respectively) for arrows, since you can only have so many enhancements on any one weapon. If it were me, I would add the +1 enhancement to the bow. A magic weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have any of the abilities listed on Table: Melee Weapon Special Abilities or Table: Ranged Weapon Special Abilities. You always need a +1 enhancement first. Unlike NiQil I favor frost arrows. :)
TelinArtho 08-22-05, 06:58 PM	@NiQil - you can't add a enhancements onto a bow (or any weapon or any armor for that matter) until they have at least that first +1 enhancement. The way you have it worded is misleading. Armor or a shield with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.
SodaGuy 08-22-05, 06:58 PM	OK then, +1 bow it is.
NiQil 08-22-05, 07:17 PM	@NiQil - you can't add a enhancements onto a bow (or any weapon or any armor for that matter) until they have at least that first +1 enhancement. The way you have it worded is misleading. Yer correct....sorry for the poor wording, Soda Guy.....you do need the +1 enhancement before you can add the other stuff on top of it.
SodaGuy 08-22-05, 07:19 PM	Yeah, I did know that. If I wanted to add an enhancement to a weapon or armor in an actual game, how would my character get that done? A wizard, or a blacksmith, or by killing goblins or something.
NiQil 08-22-05, 08:13 PM	Yeah, I did know that. If I wanted to add an enhancement to a weapon or armor in an actual game, how would my character get that done? A wizard, or a blacksmith, or by killing goblins or something. In an actual campaign, you would need to visit an arcane caster that has the ability to craft magic weapons and armor to have this done.
michael_noah 08-22-05, 08:19 PM	The point is that horses do not gain feats (no advancement) which would mean that there wouldn't be any warhorses with barding around. This clearly cannot be. We have one reference ("proficient with armor if trained for war") that implies that it is possible for warhorses to wear barding (and Michael, I don't think they mean 'wearing yes but with penalty' Note the word 'proficient'). But, note that the rules do not say "proficient if trained for war" anywhere. They merely say that those animals that are not trained for war are not proficient. I'd say the more likely reason that some horses can wear armor without penalty is that the feats listed in their entry are not the be all and end all, but that one could train a horse such that it had armor proficiencies - and they would take up a feat slot. I think you're venturing pretty far into house-rule territory here. If the game designers wanted warhorses to be proficient in armor, they would have listed it in their stat block, or they would have given a way to do it in the handle animal skill, or something. Nothing like this exists, because they need the feat, just like anyone else.
sloisel 08-22-05, 08:19 PM	In an actual campaign, you would need to visit an arcane caster that has the ability to craft magic weapons and armor to have this done. Doesn't need to be arcane... Sebastien Loisel
NiQil 08-22-05, 08:29 PM	Doesn't need to be arcane... Sebastien Loisel True, I suppose....I just don't run across many clerics and druids that make magic armor in campaigns I have been in LOL
Snommelp 08-22-05, 08:50 PM	But, note that the rules do not say "proficient if trained for war" anywhere. They merely say that those animals that are not trained for war are not proficient. I'd say that's a pretty good argument against you, right there. If they specifically point out that animals not trained for war aren't proficient, it stands to reason that animals which are trained for war would be proficient. Otherwise, why make the specification?
michael_noah 08-22-05, 09:30 PM	I'd say that's a pretty good argument against you, right there. If they specifically point out that animals not trained for war aren't proficient, it stands to reason that animals which are trained for war would be proficient. Otherwise, why make the specification? I already agreed that it's implied, but I think it's a whole lot more likely that it's because of poor wording, or a lack of rules text that needed to be there. It's quite unlikely that they wanted all animals that were "trained for war" to be proficient in all armor, but then neglected to mention that in any animal description, in the description of barding, or in the handle animal skill (if that even has anything to do with it), not to mention that they didn't define "trained for war" at all! Anything we try to make of this is a house rule, and I think a dangerous one, as presented in my post in the House of Commons.
xanadu 08-22-05, 09:39 PM	Just get some MW studded leather barding for creatures - armor check penalty 0.
Altaris13 08-22-05, 10:09 PM	I don't recall exactly where I saw this, but there is a "war x" template that is applied to animals "trained for war." IIRC, it is loosely based on warhorses. I believe that anything listed in the MMx with "war' in the name can be construed as be "trained for war." As such, Warhorses would be proficient in the use of barding. IMO, I would treat "training for combat blah" with Handle Animal the same as training for war. Frankly, making an animal proficient in barding is not going to be game breaking. Especially if the animal starts off with light armor proficiency.
Gonbow 08-22-05, 10:31 PM	Just get some MW studded leather barding for creatures - armor check penalty 0. Quite. That's what I did with Lortavos (God, I keep mispelling the name of my own character... A sign perhaps?)... Of course, he is a PC anyways, but it's a good purchase for non-arcane characters who for whatever reason have no armor proficiencies.
xanadu 08-22-05, 10:55 PM	Yep. MW studded leather works for RakkaR the Reckless who is a commoner. I generally like studded leather or leather on my large mounts anyway because it is much cheaper than chainshirt.
xanadu 08-22-05, 11:09 PM	On the blackmarket, how much gold does a +1 ability item cost?
Kaigan 08-22-05, 11:30 PM	On the blackmarket, how much gold does a +1 ability item cost? Like Gloves of Dex +1? it's 1,000 gp and 5 credits.
Emrys Donovan 08-22-05, 11:32 PM	Is there anyone with AIM who can help me with my char. sheet? My screen name is TAMUs12thMan.
LongArcher 08-23-05, 12:10 AM	Hello people. Well, i was doing a search today for any kind of arena battles and little did i know there was one on the wizards web site itself. So, I spent a bit of time reading some of the rules (too much for now) and thought i would give it a try. Archie Longbow is available to be combed over for errors. There might be a few, hope i don't get thrown in jail though. I look forward to challenging you all in the coming weeks. So, now i have to send a PM to Pirtlords right?
Gonbow 08-23-05, 12:15 AM	Hello people. Well, i was doing a search today for any kind of arena battles and little did i know there was one on the wizards web site itself. So, I spent a bit of time reading some of the rules (too much for now) and thought i would give it a try. Archie Longbow is available to be combed over for errors. There might be a few, hope i don't get thrown in jail though. I look forward to challenging you all in the coming weeks. So, now i have to send a PM to Pirtlords right? 08 charisma is -1, not +0 for starters. I'm too tired to look at it closer. You don't need to PM Pitlords unless you intend to become a Pitlord.
xanadu 08-23-05, 12:19 AM	Like Gloves of Dex +1? it's 1,000 gp and 5 credits. cool thanks
Meek Head 08-23-05, 12:59 AM	@ Cat, ToK, Elders: Can a character enter the arena with 2 scrolls in hand, cast one, and draw a third for his first action or is it only 1 scroll, cast, draw? Thanks
Snommelp 08-23-05, 01:15 AM	Hello people. Well, i was doing a search today for any kind of arena battles and little did i know there was one on the wizards web site itself. So, I spent a bit of time reading some of the rules (too much for now) and thought i would give it a try. Archie Longbow is available to be combed over for errors. There might be a few, hope i don't get thrown in jail though. I look forward to challenging you all in the coming weeks. So, now i have to send a PM to Pirtlords right? It looks like you have two HP totals listed. Your grapple modifier is +1, because your strength score is 10 (+0). Your bow is masterwork, granting a total attack bonus of +5, not +4. Martial Weapon proficiency gives you proficiency with only one martial weapon. You can still use the others, but at a -4 penalty. You get 42 skill points, not 40. Unless you paid to scribe spells into your spellbook, you know two spells too many. You need to take that 58 xp that you spent scribing out of your xp total. You spent 2937 gp total, so you should have 63 gp left, not 88. I believe that's everything on the technical side. I also noticed that you're at a medium load. You might want to consider leaving some of the heavy stuff at home, since you are a ranged fighter. Just a thought.
Laughing_Dragon 08-23-05, 01:29 AM	I've been wondering of late if the advanced Psionic tattoo system presented in the archives of the Mind's Eye is usable in CoCo. It'd be nice to be able to reuse the same tattoo over and over again. I'm betting it isn't seeing as how someone would have already used the system if you could do it.
Vathelokai 08-23-05, 02:57 AM	I've been wondering of late if the advanced Psionic tattoo system presented in the archives of the Mind's Eye is usable in CoCo. CoCo is Core rules only. 'Core' meaning PHB, DMG, MM, with psionics, divine, and epic rules. There is another game forum in the wizard.community though. I've never played there, but I think it is anything goes.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-23-05, 08:56 AM	@ Cat, ToK, Elders: Can a character enter the arena with 2 scrolls in hand, cast one, and draw a third for his first action or is it only 1 scroll, cast, draw? Thanks You need a free hand to complete the spell on a scroll. So, in your example, a person can enter the arena with ONE scroll in hand, cast it, then draw another and take a 5' step. Remember, scrolls are not weapon-like objects so they can't be drawn while the player moves. -ToK
LongArcher 08-23-05, 09:04 AM	It looks like you have two HP totals listed. Your grapple modifier is +1, because your strength score is 10 (+0). Your bow is masterwork, granting a total attack bonus of +5, not +4. Martial Weapon proficiency gives you proficiency with only one martial weapon. You can still use the others, but at a -4 penalty. You get 42 skill points, not 40. Unless you paid to scribe spells into your spellbook, you know two spells too many. You need to take that 58 xp that you spent scribing out of your xp total. You spent 2937 gp total, so you should have 63 gp left, not 88. I believe that's everything on the technical side. I also noticed that you're at a medium load. You might want to consider leaving some of the heavy stuff at home, since you are a ranged fighter. Just a thought. Yes, i ended up changing my stats as i built her, but forgot to change some of the corresponding things. I guess though with the martial weapon prof. being only one weapon, the whole build is scrapped. Looks like i'll have to be a tiefling. Oh well. It will give me a few other options for alter self and polymorph when the time comes. I just hate losing a caster level as i will be losing another caster level when i switch to eldritch knight. Back to the drawing board. :(
LongArcher 08-23-05, 10:13 AM	Alright, new version is posted. Archie Longbow the tiefling. I hate losing a level of spellcasting. Really stalls progression, but i guess i really needed to be proficient in all martial weapons so i felt i had no choice.
Luni 08-23-05, 10:15 AM	You can always take a level as a Fighter, Ranger or PSychic Warrior. All 3 of them give MArtial Weapon Proficiency. Plus, you can get more hps.
Gonbow 08-23-05, 10:48 AM	@ Cat, ToK, Elders: Can a character enter the arena with 2 scrolls in hand, cast one, and draw a third for his first action or is it only 1 scroll, cast, draw? Thanks 1, cast, draw would work, but you would only be able to make a 5' move your first turn. On another note, you can achieve similar results by having more than one spell on a single scroll; scrolls can hold up to six spells each, IIRC.
Huan 08-23-05, 11:41 AM	1, cast, draw would work, but you would only be able to make a 5' move your first turn. On another note, you can achieve similar results by having more than one spell on a single scroll; scrolls can hold up to six spells each, IIRC. Really? I was under the impression scrolls can have unlimited length (but given how easy they are to break you would not want to put all of your eggs in one basket, so to speak ;) ). Can you please tell me where it says that?
Huan 08-23-05, 11:44 AM	You can always take a level as a Fighter, Ranger or PSychic Warrior. All 3 of them give MArtial Weapon Proficiency. Plus, you can get more hps. Don't forget Barbarians or Paladins, they need lovin' too. :)
xanadu 08-23-05, 11:46 AM	Don't forget Barbarians or Paladins, they need lovin' too. :) And aristocrats :D
Gonbow 08-23-05, 12:39 PM	Really? I was under the impression scrolls can have unlimited length (but given how easy they are to break you would not want to put all of your eggs in one basket, so to speak ;) ). Can you please tell me where it says that? Table: NUMBER OF SPELLS ON A SCROLL Scroll Type Number of Spells Minor scroll 1d3 spells Medium scroll 1d4 spells Major scroll 1d6 spells Well, there is that. Nothing else in the SRD suggests that a scroll can have more than one spell, actually. So... It's kind of vague.
TelinArtho 08-23-05, 12:40 PM	Okay - here's a bit of a problem. Does the protection against summoned creatures for the protection from [alignment] spells protect against all creatures except the opposed alignment, or only against those of the alignment. Here's the relevant text from the SRD: Protection from evil Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Good summoned creatures are immune to this effect. The protection against contact by summoned creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. Spell resistance can allow a creature to overcome this protection and touch the warded creature. Protection from good This spell functions like protection from evil, except that the deflection and resistance bonuses apply to attacks from good creatures, and good summoned creatures cannot touch the subject Protection from chaos This spell functions like protection from evil, except that the deflection and resistance bonuses apply to attacks from chaotic creatures, and chaotic summoned creatures cannot touch the subject. Emphasis mine. This would affect the fight I have this week, but also, since I have a lot of summoners, this is a major difference. Bear in mind, I am fine with it either way - I just want to know precisely which one it is. /d
Gonbow 08-23-05, 12:43 PM	Pro: Blah Each protection spell has the alignment opposite that it is protecting from; Thus, Pro: Law is a Chaotic spell and chaotic extraplaner/summoned creatures are not affected by it. Neutral, Good and Lawful summoned creatures would be hedged out by it, however. Thus, good creatures can go through pro-evil, etc, etc.
TelinArtho 08-23-05, 12:58 PM	That's what I thought, but the non-protection from evil spells had a different reading to it. Regardless - it looks fine. Anyway, onto my next question. If a summoned creature (with SR) goes up to a guy with Prot. from blah - would the creature get a single chance to break the barrier (one SR check) or would it be several (over several attacks)? /d
waywreth 08-23-05, 01:23 PM	I was wondering if I could switch the feat "Mounted Combat" (which in my 5 fights I've yet to use) for "Divine Might". I failed to realize that Divine feats were allowed. I'm not sure of the policy on such, but I've yet to use Mounted Combat (was waiting to buy a heavy warhorse...). I qualify for it - Prerequisites: Str 13, turn or rebuke undead ability, Power Attack.
Caterane 08-23-05, 02:28 PM	I was wondering if I could switch the feat "Mounted Combat" (which in my 5 fights I've yet to use) for "Divine Might". I failed to realize that Divine feats were allowed. I'm not sure of the policy on such, but I've yet to use Mounted Combat (was waiting to buy a heavy warhorse...). I qualify for it - Prerequisites: Str 13, turn or rebuke undead ability, Power Attack. Ok, you may change it. Link this post to the new feat (Divine might) on your sheet.
Huan 08-23-05, 02:55 PM	Well, there is that. Nothing else in the SRD suggests that a scroll can have more than one spell, actually. So... It's kind of vague. Ah, interesting ... though since we use a similar table for powerstones (same limit of 6), I suppose this scroll spell cap is the intention as well. Ok, that's that, thanks. :) As for a scroll having more than one spell, sure it can (under Magic Items): Physical Description: A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8 1/2 inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide. A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8 1/2 inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each extra spell. Scrolls that hold three or more spells are usually fitted with reinforcing rods at each end rather than simple strips of leather. A scroll has AC 9, 1 hit point, hardness 0, and a break DC of 8.
Iced 08-23-05, 03:24 PM	If I buy 1 vial of poison is it enough to coat 20 arrows or 1 arrow? Seeing as arrows are sold in bundles of twenty and you'd be able to coat a greatsword in a single vial I'd think you'd be able to do a batch of arrows but I'd like to be sure.
Iced 08-23-05, 03:27 PM	Yes, i ended up changing my stats as i built her, but forgot to change some of the corresponding things. I guess though with the martial weapon prof. being only one weapon, the whole build is scrapped. Looks like i'll have to be a tiefling. Oh well. It will give me a few other options for alter self and polymorph when the time comes. I just hate losing a caster level as i will be losing another caster level when i switch to eldritch knight. Back to the drawing board. :( If you go elf you'll be able to have the longbow and longsword proficiency for free and still be able to take 3 levels of wizard...;-)
TelinArtho 08-23-05, 03:41 PM	For anyone who has considered doing audits for credits: Auditing is nothing to scoff at. It takes a lot of time and is a labor intensive work. You will look up every single question you have and even look up rules that you faithfully know. For level 3 characters, I don't think an audit is difficult, but for the 2 characters I've done (King Uther's Virgo and Caterane's Uhmentarymster) - they can definitely get difficult. One thing to remember is that you must look up each fight, this is both to make sure the fights are linked correctly as well as to make sure the past expenditures are done correctly. People make mistakes and both characters I listed had a fair number of them in this area (Uhme was forced to spend an additional 1000gp while Virgo found out that he had an extra 1000gp lying around in the closet somewhere...). Auditing is something the CoCo needs. This will help anyone who does it well to learn the rules real fast, and it will help maintain consistency. it is needed for the new people/characters, but it is also needed for the old hats. And just for the record, auditing those two characters took 6 hours total from start to finish. I suspect a 3rd level character could easily be done in 1 hour. In the coming weeks, I will try to get at least one long audit done on one of the higher level characters per week. /d
Tellish_of_Ket 08-23-05, 04:29 PM	You can always take a level as a Fighter, Ranger or PSychic Warrior. All 3 of them give MArtial Weapon Proficiency. Plus, you can get more hps. Don't forget Barbarians or Paladins, they need lovin' too. :) With regards to being an eldritch knight, personally, and from experience, i would say chosing to be a tiefling is a wise choice. At first i thought it would be another Aku-type of character but they appear to be quite different builds. Aku was very orginal for the time, and IMHO the LA +1 offsets the hp balance appropriately. You gotta think that with +10 Natural AC bonus, +4 mage armor, +4 shield, +4 dex, and if you play your cards right +4 cover, you're looking at AC 36 without even sneezing. Again, imho, that's a pretty safe AC from melee attacks all the way up to 10th level at least. But tough choice though. I personally would have still chosen the fighter level for the hp and feats, but that's just me. Maybe that's just my short-sightedness. ;) -ToK
Vathelokai 08-23-05, 04:35 PM	You gotta think that with +10 Natural AC bonus... -ToK Tieflings get nat. armor?
Snommelp 08-23-05, 04:42 PM	Tieflings get nat. armor? It's gotta be the PrC... no LA +1 race has +10 natural armor.
Caterane 08-23-05, 04:43 PM	He means he polymorphs into outsiders which is possible as a tiefling.
Luni 08-23-05, 05:01 PM	The more tieflings the better!
Caterane 08-23-05, 05:36 PM	@all: I've begun working on the new Tales of Gladius thread. Here, all old and new stories will be archived. The stories will ALWAYS be posted by the Scribelords Account, never by you so just never post there please. I am not 100% satisfied with the front picture of the thread. If you have a better idea for a picture for the 1st post, please show us. Thanks.
Vathelokai 08-23-05, 05:38 PM	Then you might want to say 'don't post here' three times in larger letters... "What I tell you three times is true..." -The hunting of the Snark
NiQil 08-23-05, 05:55 PM	I know that if a monk wears gauntlets, he uses the damage for the gauntlet instead of his normal unarmed strike damage. However, using a gauntlet allows him to have them enchanted, making them into magical weapons. I also know that there exists such things as Gloves of Dexterity and Gloves of Archery Snaring that can be freely worn by a monk and still allow him to use his unarmed strike damage, but *also allows him to have them further enchanted for greater magical advantage. What I am wondering is if it is allowed for a monk to wear normal leather gloves that would allow him to still use his unarmed strike damage, but would later allow him to have said leather gloves enchanted. If this is allowed, would these leather gloves be considered a part of the free weightless outfit given to all gladiators, or would there be a seperate cost for them? If so, how much?
Snommelp 08-23-05, 05:56 PM	Question: I know it's possible to add magical bonuses to weapons and armor (+1 to +2 for x amount of gp), but is the same possible for other magical items (like, say, bracers of natural armor)?
Iced 08-23-05, 06:20 PM	If I buy 1 vial of poison is it enough to coat 20 arrows or 1 arrow? Seeing as arrows are sold in bundles of twenty and you'd be able to coat a greatsword in a single vial I'd think you'd be able to do a batch of arrows but I'd like to be sure. Anyone?
Gonbow 08-23-05, 06:34 PM	I know that if a monk wears gauntlets, he uses the damage for the gauntlet instead of his normal unarmed strike damage. However, using a gauntlet allows him to have them enchanted, making them into magical weapons. I also know that there exists such things as Gloves of Dexterity and Gloves of Archery Snaring that can be freely worn by a monk and still allow him to use his unarmed strike damage, but *also allows him to have them further enchanted for greater magical advantage. What I am wondering is if it is allowed for a monk to wear normal leather gloves that would allow him to still use his unarmed strike damage, but would later allow him to have said leather gloves enchanted. If this is allowed, would these leather gloves be considered a part of the free weightless outfit given to all gladiators, or would there be a seperate cost for them? If so, how much? Basically, no. When you hit with a gauntlet you are using a weapon. You are not using an unarmed strike. If you hit with an unarmed strike, even if the appendage you use is sheathed in magical armor etc, it is not a magical unarmed strike, you have to get a amulet of mighty fists to achieve what you are talking about.
NiQil 08-23-05, 06:47 PM	Basically, no. When you hit with a gauntlet you are using a weapon. You are not using an unarmed strike. If you hit with an unarmed strike, even if the appendage you use is sheathed in magical armor etc, it is not a magical unarmed strike, you have to get a amulet of mighty fists to achieve what you are talking about. I think you misunderstood me (and please correct me if I am misunderstanding you). Let me give an example. Say I buy Gloves of Dexterity +1 for a monk. No one disputes (at least I hope not) that when wearing these gloves, a monk can still use his unarmed strike damage bonus in melee and also receive the benefits of the gloves at the same time. Now suppose I go out later and want to have these same Gloves of Dexterity enchanted with a +1 enhancement (in effect, making them +1 Gloves of Dexterity +1 LOL). What I am wondering is a) is there any rule preventing these Gloves of Dexterity from being enchanted with a +1 enchantment, and b) assuming their isn't, and they *can be enchanted, would this still allow the monk to use his unarmed damage bonuses? Assuming for the moment that the Gloves of Dexterity can be enchanted, why would the monk suddenly lose the ability to use his unarmed damage bonuses with these gloves that now have a +1 enchantment on them? Does the +1 enchantment take away the ability of the monk to use his unarmed damage bonus? Now, as I said, this all assumes that Gloves of Dexterity can be enchanted with a +1 enhancement like a weapon can, which I am not sure on. So I would like an answer to that question as well, if anyone knows.
Gonbow 08-23-05, 06:51 PM	I think you misunderstood me (and please correct me if I am misunderstanding you). Let me give an example. Say I buy Gloves of Dexterity +1 for a monk. No one disputes (at least I hope not) that when wearing these gloves, a monk can still use his unarmed strike damage bonus in melee and also receive the benefits of the gloves at the same time. Now suppose I go out later and want to have these same Gloves of Dexterity enchanted with a +1 enhancement (in effect, making them +1 Gloves of Dexterity +1 LOL). What I am wondering is a) is there any rule preventing these Gloves of Dexterity from being enchanted with a +1 enchantment, and b) assuming their isn't, and they *can be enchanted, would this still allow the monk to use his unarmed damage bonuses? Assuming for the moment that the Gloves of Dexterity can be enchanted, why would the monk suddenly lose the ability to use his unarmed damage bonuses with these gloves that now have a +1 enchantment on them? Does the +1 enchantment take away the ability of the monk to use his unarmed damage bonus? Now, as I said, this all assumes that Gloves of Dexterity can be enchanted with a +1 enhancement like a weapon can, which I am not sure on. So I would like an answer to that question as well, if anyone knows. That's the thing. To get an enchancement bonus at less than MASSIVE GP and credit costs the gloves have to be a weapon. Which is fine, see: Gauntlets and spiked gauntlets. However, if it is a weapon, you do not get it's bonus when making an unarmed strike. Theorhetically, any piece of equipment can give your unarmed strikes an enhancement bonus; it would just be a matter of reassiging amulet of mighty fists to a different slot on your body. Easy enough, if very expensive. What you seem to want to do is to get +1 gloves for 2,000 and some credits, which you CAN do, but they won't help your unarmed strikes.
Huan 08-23-05, 07:42 PM	If I buy 1 vial of poison is it enough to coat 20 arrows or 1 arrow? Seeing as arrows are sold in bundles of twenty and you'd be able to coat a greatsword in a single vial I'd think you'd be able to do a batch of arrows but I'd like to be sure. Hmm... well.. this answer's a little bit of a stretch (which means there is likely a better response), but... One dose of poison smeared on a weapon or some other object affects just a single target. A poisoned weapon or object retains its venom until the weapon scores a hit or the object is touched (unless the poison is wiped off before a target comes in contact with it). Any poison smeared on an object or exposed to the elements in any way remains potent until it is touched or used. Well, with this in mind it does not speficially state how to treat ammo. For instance, how would we address sling stones or crossbow bolts? However, it does specifically say "object" and does not say anything about splitting up the dose or even the possibility thereof (just like how one cannot split up a potion). To be safe, we should say we cannot else we come up with the problem of how much poison can be spread out to how much while still remaining potent. If nothing else, an arrow is technically a light weapon of its own right, and that complies with the RAW. So, no, I am afraid it is still going to be one dose per arrow.
TelinArtho 08-23-05, 07:58 PM	The way I would explain the poison is as such: One dose of poison (effective to one person) comes in a vial. The contents of said bottle do not necessarily cover the entire blade or weapon that it is smeared on - just that it is put in a spot that would most likely find its way onto someone else. So the assumption that the poison covers the entire blade and thus could be spread over multiple arrows is the opposite of the way I'd look at it. /d
Huan 08-23-05, 09:51 PM	Calling all ECL 4-6, non-good AND non-lawful characters! (Lawful Neutral is the only exception) The Grands Hiests (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6468272#post6468272), a campaign unlike any thus far, will be opening soon... very soon! However, a few free slots are open and we need some suave, intelligent, and otherwise daring people from Gladius to rush up and grab the gold! Expect missions from this campaign to liken such grand thefts as Mission Impossible, The Thomas Crown Affair, The Great Train Robbery, or Ocean's Eleven. Again, if you are ECL 4, 5, or 6 (and of N, LN, CN, NE, or CE alignment), and are interested, please PM or email me (email preferrable) ASAP! The sooner we get a man/woman/creature on the team the sooner the great adventure will begin! -Huan
NiQil 08-23-05, 09:55 PM	Ok....this may be the pain pills I am on talking....but I just had the sudden urge to turn the Power Rangers into D&D characters. Someone please shoot me. In the face. With a hammer.
NiQil 08-23-05, 10:08 PM	@Cat Is there any way that one could pay credits or take a level adjustment or something to have a character be an alignment that is normally restricted to a certain class? For instance if I wanted to make a True Neutral Monk instead of a Lawful Neutral Monk, would that be allowed? And if so, what would the credit cost be, if any? I know that it costs 5 credits to *change your alignment per step you want to change it, but I didn't know if that would allow you to be alignments that are normally restricted with regard to certain classes.
Huan 08-23-05, 10:08 PM	Power Rangers d20, eh? ... *loads Hammer-Rifle*
Tellish_of_Ket 08-23-05, 10:20 PM	Ok....this may be the pain pills I am on talking....but I just had the sudden urge to turn the Power Rangers into D&D characters. Someone please shoot me. In the face. With a hammer. Packs a cannon full of hammers.
Mind Rogue 08-23-05, 10:42 PM	(Curses self for not making a dwarf)
Vathelokai 08-24-05, 07:08 AM	@Cat Is there any way that one could pay credits or take a level adjustment or something to have a character be an alignment that is normally restricted to a certain class? For instance if I wanted to make a True Neutral Monk instead of a Lawful Neutral Monk, would that be allowed? And if so, what would the credit cost be, if any? I know that it costs 5 credits to *change your alignment per step you want to change it, but I didn't know if that would allow you to be alignments that are normally restricted with regard to certain classes. That 5 credit thing only applies if to racial alignment restrictions. The monk alignment is a class prereq., so no, you could not get away with it. The only option you have is to gain some monk lvs., then change alignment and never be allowed to proceed as a monk.
Luni 08-24-05, 11:14 AM	Quick question about Handle Animal. Rear a Wild Animal: To rear an animal means to raise a wild creature from infancy so that it becomes domesticated. A handler can rear as many as three creatures of the same kind at once. A successfully domesticated animal can be taught tricks at the same time it’s being raised, or it can be taught as a domesticated animal later. So, could Talari train all 3 wolves simulatenously?
McJarvis 08-24-05, 11:15 AM	@Cat Is there any way that one could pay credits or take a level adjustment or something to have a character be an alignment that is normally restricted to a certain class? For instance if I wanted to make a True Neutral Monk instead of a Lawful Neutral Monk, would that be allowed? And if so, what would the credit cost be, if any? I know that it costs 5 credits to *change your alignment per step you want to change it, but I didn't know if that would allow you to be alignments that are normally restricted with regard to certain classes. There _should_ be, even though there isn't now. I always like the idea of neutral/good assassins :) EDIT: speaking of which: if you lose the prereqs for a prestige class, do the benifits of the class go away? I know this is *somewhat* disputed on other boards...
Mind Rogue 08-24-05, 11:20 AM	You lose the class abilities, but you still get to keep your HD, BaB, skill points, and saves garnered. I know that was in the 3.0 DMG, but with howe they've reorganized the 3.5 one, I'm not sure what's still in there anymore, but I think it probably got cut along with the line that says that PrC don't give Xp penalties.
xanadu 08-24-05, 11:26 AM	I think the intimidate skill should allow for minor violations to go unnoticed by the Prisonlords. Whose going to nark when you know you and your family will wind up blugeoned with baseball bats and thrown in the East River ;) Luni, I think you answered your own question there.
Maraxus 08-24-05, 11:34 AM	speaking of which: if you lose the prereqs for a prestige class, do the benifits of the class go away? I know this is *somewhat* disputed on other boards... The Complete warrior sais, that if you don't quallify for a prestige class anymre, you lose it's special abilities. But one can ignore this (since non-core) and one should ignore this. Taking this exactly as written, a dragon disciple entering 10th level would suddenly end in a state of instable creature type (he becomes a dragon, which imedeatly makes him lose all abilities, including being a dragon, that's why he does become....). Obviously, unless otherwise stated, you keep all class features. It is a good question, whether you can keep on progressing in the class, here I would say (and I think I'm not allown with this), that you can't progress in a class, you no longer qualify for (unless otherwise noted).
McJarvis 08-24-05, 11:34 AM	Alright, new version is posted. Archie Longbow the tiefling. I hate losing a level of spellcasting. Really stalls progression, but i guess i really needed to be proficient in all martial weapons so i felt i had no choice. You could be a half-giant too. :)
SoulLord 08-24-05, 11:58 AM	Quick question.... do familiars gain feats?
Maraxus 08-24-05, 12:28 PM	Familiar Basics: Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master’s character level or the familiar’s normal HD total, whichever is higher. So they get no real hit dies. They do not get class levels, too. And so they have no way to get feats.
Gonbow 08-24-05, 12:58 PM	Feats are an effect of gaining HD, neh? Thus, they do ;) It's REALLY up to debate, the elders should take a look at it when they have some time, because it requries the 'effects' of Hit-dice to be determined.
sloisel 08-24-05, 01:12 PM	Feats are an effect of gaining HD, neh? Thus, they do ;) It's REALLY up to debate, the elders should take a look at it when they have some time, because it requries the 'effects' of Hit-dice to be determined. A long time ago, in the 3.0rd age, this was answered officially, I think by the sage, but I'm not sure. The answer was that familiars don't advance. I'm trying to locate it, but that type of old information is hard to find. Sebastien Loisel
McJarvis 08-24-05, 01:40 PM	The Complete warrior sais, that if you don't quallify for a prestige class anymre, you lose it's special abilities. But one can ignore this (since non-core) and one should ignore this. Taking this exactly as written, a dragon disciple entering 10th level would suddenly end in a state of instable creature type (he becomes a dragon, which imedeatly makes him lose all abilities, including being a dragon, that's why he does become....). Obviously, unless otherwise stated, you keep all class features. It is a good question, whether you can keep on progressing in the class, here I would say (and I think I'm not allown with this), that you can't progress in a class, you no longer qualify for (unless otherwise noted). Cool. If I could get an official ruling on this that would be great. I'd love to play a good-aligned assassin.
Altaris13 08-24-05, 01:41 PM	That 5 credit thing only applies if to racial alignment restrictions. The monk alignment is a class prereq., so no, you could not get away with it. The only option you have is to gain some monk lvs., then change alignment and never be allowed to proceed as a monk. This is exactly true. You do not lose class features based on alignment restrictions UNLESS the class specifies that you lose them. Generally, you just cannot proceed until you again meet the prereq's.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-24-05, 01:43 PM	Cool. If I could get an official ruling on this that would be great. I'd love to play a good-aligned assassin. You can play a good-aligned assassin. You only need to be evil to qualify, not continue to level in. I remember reading that as well. Sadly i cannot find the article anymore, but i remember it quite well. -ToK
Tellish_of_Ket 08-24-05, 01:44 PM	A long time ago, in the 3.0rd age, this was answered officially, I think by the sage, but I'm not sure. The answer was that familiars don't advance. I'm trying to locate it, but that type of old information is hard to find. Sebastien Loisel It's in the phb actually under familiars. They do not advance. They only gain special abilities based on your wizard/sorcerers level. The same applies to animal companions.
TelinArtho 08-24-05, 01:53 PM	Alright, this is going to be a little despicable, but its a tactic that one of my characters might take up (because it is very much in character for him...): Step 1: Buy an animal Step 2: Bring said animal into the arena bound and immobile Step 3: In round 1 of the fight, beat said animal to a state of dying (-1 to -9). Step 4: Cast Death Knell (+1d8 hp, +2 Str, +1 CL for 10 min/HD of the animal) My question has the following assumptions: First of all, I am assuming the nexus will revive my animal. I don't care if it doesn't like me anymore - I'm keeping it bound... Second of all, I am also assuming that the animal will count against my total ally CR and such. So, the question is, can someone find a better animal to use than a Donkey (2HD, CR 1/6)? Looking for either a lower CR and same HD or higher HD and same CR... If either of my assumptions is wrong, let me know.
xanadu 08-24-05, 01:56 PM	Alright, this is going to be a little despicable, but its a tactic that one of my characters might take up (because it is very much in character for him...): Step 1: Buy an animal Step 2: Bring said animal into the arena bound and immobile Step 3: In round 1 of the fight, beat said animal to a state of dying (-1 to -9). Step 4: Cast Death Knell (+1d8 hp, +2 Str, +1 CL for 10 min/HD of the animal) My question has the following assumptions: First of all, I am assuming the nexus will revive my animal. I don't care if it doesn't like me anymore - I'm keeping it bound... Second of all, I am also assuming that the animal will count against my total ally CR and such. So, the question is, can someone find a better animal to use than a Donkey (2HD, CR 1/6)? Looking for either a lower CR and same HD or higher HD and same CR... If either of my assumptions is wrong, let me know. Use a chicken and simply squeeze its neck [CDG]. I'd consider it an expendable but I dont make the decisions here.
TelinArtho 08-24-05, 02:07 PM	Well, the thing is - you don't want to do a CDG - because that actually kills the animal. I need to bring it to a state of dying and then cast Death Knell (which kills the animal). Also, I need something with at least 1/2 HD realistically (the duration of Death Knell is based on 10 min/HD of the creature), and I want a small CR. Chickens, since they are not statted out, don't have an entry that I've seen, so I don't know what they would qualify for - probably 1 hp (1/8 HD) and a CR of 1/10 or lower. Regardless, a donkey would be 2HD (20 minute duration) and only a CR of 1/6. If it becomes an expendable, then the 8gp for the donkey is much more significant, but still fairly inexpensive. /d
Luni 08-24-05, 02:30 PM	@TelinArtho: The Living Gladius Chapter of the P.E.T.A. has been informed of your actions. Prepare to be squished.
NiQil 08-24-05, 02:39 PM	@TelinArtho: The Living Gladius Chapter of the P.E.T.A. has been informed of your actions. Prepare to be squished. Heh....Telin...no worries...lemme go get Ted Nugent to deal with PETA :rofl:
Tellish_of_Ket 08-24-05, 02:40 PM	You can't use a chicken as their is no price listed for it. If you use anything other than what you can readily buy, you will have to miniquest for it. So you could mini-quest for a dozen bats one week, bring them to the point of starvation (-1 hp), putting them at 0HP and in a dying state. Bring one into the arena with you and on round one, you death knell it. Your deathknell though would only last 1 minute. -ToK
TelinArtho 08-24-05, 02:54 PM	Well, I guess then I need a ruling on whether a bought animal used in this fashion would be a) an expendable (costs me x gp each time I use it...) or b) an ally (in which case it will cut into my xp/gp of each fight and boost that of my opponent). /d
sloisel 08-24-05, 02:59 PM	Well, I guess then I need a ruling on whether a bought animal used in this fashion would be a) an expendable (costs me x gp each time I use it...) or b) an ally (in which case it will cut into my xp/gp of each fight and boost that of my opponent). I was planning to do more or less the same thing, but then decided it wasn't worth the effort. The question is still good, though.
TelinArtho 08-24-05, 03:05 PM	Well, for my summoners, an extra CL is a big deal - that's an extra round on each of their summoned creatures. Still, it does cost them 2 spell levels, so it will need to be handled carefully (or simply use a scroll...). Before I got into it, I wanted to know the viability of it first.
Begferdeth 08-24-05, 03:08 PM	I think the intimidate skill should allow for minor violations to go unnoticed by the Prisonlords. Whose going to nark when you know you and your family will wind up blugeoned with baseball bats and thrown in the East River ;) Ill take 4 ranks in "Metagaming" while Im at it! :D This, combined with the Intimidation, will let me look at (and adjust) the tactics submitted to the Pitlord by my opponents, because the messenger imps will be totally intimidated by me! Bwahahaha!
TelinArtho 08-24-05, 05:14 PM	You can't use a chicken as their is no price listed for it. If you use anything other than what you can readily buy, you will have to miniquest for it. So you could mini-quest for a dozen bats one week, bring them to the point of starvation (-1 hp), putting them at 0HP and in a dying state. Bring one into the arena with you and on round one, you death knell it. Your deathknell though would only last 1 minute. -ToK Actually, chickens are priced out, just not where you would expect. You have to look under "Trade Goods" - because chickens have the same cost to buy as return on selling. So a 5 chickens can be traded for 1 pound of iron or 50 chickens could even be traded for a goat, etc. Regardless, I'm looking for a longer duration, but this would vastly depend on whether the animal was considered an expendable or an ally.
sloisel 08-24-05, 06:11 PM	It's in the phb actually under familiars. They do not advance. They only gain special abilities based on your wizard/sorcerers level. The same applies to animal companions. And for good measure, I also found it in the FAQ. The animal companion rules -- or, for that matter, pretty much any other effect that grants a creature bonus Hit Dice -- don't use the monster improvement rules presented in Chapter 4 of the Monster Manual.
nightbanegod 08-24-05, 06:38 PM	to use respective craft skills do you need to have ranks in the craft skill or will a sufficiently high int bonus and some masterwork tools cover the untrained modifier required? ... basically do you need ranks in a craft skill to use it for crafting discount goods?
sloisel 08-24-05, 07:31 PM	Hey, I was just reading the FAQ and I learnt some stuff. A monk can flurry of blows AND at the same time do some two-weapon fighting. What's more, he can attack off-hand with his fists! At level 20 with the greater TWF, he's got 8 attacks. Also, if you're wielding a two-handed weapon AND spiked armor, you can also use TWF to attack with the 2-h weapon as your main weapon and the spiked armor as an off-hand weapon. Which begs the question, what kind of an idiot would actually use a one-handed weapon and a light, off-hand weapon?? It's just less damage! Sebastien Loisel
xanadu 08-24-05, 08:54 PM	Hey, I was just reading the FAQ and I learnt some stuff. A monk can flurry of blows AND at the same time do some two-weapon fighting. What's more, he can attack off-hand with his fists! At level 20 with the greater TWF, he's got 8 attacks. Also, if you're wielding a two-handed weapon AND spiked armor, you can also use TWF to attack with the 2-h weapon as your main weapon and the spiked armor as an off-hand weapon. Which begs the question, what kind of an idiot would actually use a one-handed weapon and a light, off-hand weapon?? It's just less damage! Sebastien Loisel Yep. Reading the FAQ actually can stimulate good characters designs. Weapon finesse users, non-monks, and/or those not profiecient w/ armor spikes will dual wield traditionally.
Maraxus 08-24-05, 10:30 PM	I don't know where that with the two-handed weapon and the spikes is in the faq, but I think, that You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa. should have been "with your off hand". And since a two-handed attack uses both the primary and the off hand, this would not work. And If you now say "This may be intented, but by RAW..." then I take out my lawyers kit and say that you can even make attacks with a weapon in your primary hand and unarmed attacks with your off-hand and additional attacks with the spikes, and then it is getting really stupid.
Snommelp 08-24-05, 11:32 PM	Question: I know it's possible to add magical bonuses to weapons and armor (+1 to +2 for x amount of gp), but is the same possible for other magical items (like, say, bracers of natural armor)? I think this got lost in the shuffle.
Gonbow 08-24-05, 11:35 PM	If the item in question has a standard progression laid out in the SRD/DMG, you can upgrade it from one version to another for the cost of the difference (if increasing, if decreasing, sell the item for half cost, then purchase a new version at full price). So for Bracers of Armor, Gloves of Dexterity, Etc... Yes, yes you can.
Vathelokai 08-25-05, 06:53 AM	For those of you who were interested, the creature competition (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050510a) has come to a close. Winner of the popularity contest: Sucubus Paladin. Not my favorite, but better then the Terrasque. This means that the S. Paladin will be comming to a module near you. However, the competition is not quite over. There are 3 runner up grudge matches you can vote on.
sloisel 08-25-05, 08:26 AM	I don't know where that with the two-handed weapon and the spikes is in the faq, but I think, that should have been "with your off hand". And since a two-handed attack uses both the primary and the off hand, this would not work. And If you now say "This may be intented, but by RAW..." then I take out my lawyers kit and say that you can even make attacks with a weapon in your primary hand and unarmed attacks with your off-hand and additional attacks with the spikes, and then it is getting really stupid. Nonono! The FAQ is very explicit! There's a long section about armor spikes on page 20. You can TWF with a greatsword and armor spikes, and the TWF feats work there too, adding more and more armor spike attacks. The FAQ even mentions that you could in fact use the armor spike as your primary attack and the greatsword as your off-hand weapon, as weird as that sounds. Sebastien Loisel
Vathelokai 08-25-05, 08:35 AM	@Sloisel: Could you post a link to the FAQ? *edit* Never mind.Here they are. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a)
Maraxus 08-25-05, 09:35 AM	Okay, found it. Only possible solution: The FAQ is wrong. :)
sloisel 08-25-05, 10:54 AM	To all the people playing fun monsters with natural abilities that increase with your HD: the FAQ page 45 says that only racial HDs count to improve the DC of a natural ability, unless noted otherwise in the creature description. Sebastien Loisel
Luni 08-25-05, 11:00 AM	To all the people playing fun monsters with natural abilities that increase with your HD: the FAQ page 45 says that only racial HDs count to improve the DC of a natural ability, unless noted otherwise in the creature description. Sebastien Loisel So, Dromites Energy Ray, Half-Giants Stomp and Psionic Duergar Inivisibility and Expansion, never improve?
Gonbow 08-25-05, 11:05 AM	So, Dromites Energy Ray, Half-Giants Stomp and Psionic Duergar Inivisibility and Expansion, never improve? Yes and no. According to what I've been told; Psi-like powers are always fully augmented to the max of whatever ML has been set for them. This in turn, increases the DC for some of them as per the rules of augmentation per the power. EDIT: Of course, if we make it based of racial HD, all the listed abilities will never improve... which is rather idiotic (Why state a progression at all if they cannot progess?). Regardless of what the FAQ says, more often than not in 3.5 supplements, HD = HD, not HD = Racial HD. See: Half-Celestial and Half-Fiendish templates. Of course, there are exceptions; See: Half-Dragon template.
Snommelp 08-25-05, 11:07 AM	I thought that I read somewhere that stones of Animal Affinity had to have the type of bonus already chosen. Am I mistaken?
Gonbow 08-25-05, 11:12 AM	I thought that I read somewhere that stones of Animal Affinity had to have the type of bonus already chosen. Am I mistaken? Yes. Stones, like scrolls, allow the person using them to make all decisions for the spell. Tattoos and potions however, have to be specified before-hand.
Pitlords 08-25-05, 11:32 AM	A new option for allies is available: You can now customize your allies' feats and skills. Since the beginning of this board there was only one type of light/heavy warhorse - that from the monster manual which is pretty boring considering that this ally is the most frequent one by far. I see it as a remnant from the system of the Classic CoCo which did not allow for a customization. This new rule brings much more diversity and upgrades this section to the standards of Living Gladius. Customizing creatures: How can I do that? The creature versions from the Monster Manual are the standard versions but surely not the only ones. You can customize these creatures by changing their printed feats and skills. For feats, you just exchange one or more existing ones with new ones. Skills need more attention because you have to recalculate a creatures skill points and then assign them anew, taking into consideration class/cross-class skills, and common sense (no spellcraft animals, for example). You may only customize a creature when you acquire it; once you've made your decision, there will be no further customization! All purchased creatures may be customized at no credit cost albeit at double market price which reflects the special training you request. All allies attained by either handle animal or diplomacy cost credits to customize: you have to pay 1° per changed feat, and a flat 1° if you want to relocate skill points. Post your request in the Blackmarket and link the Pitlords answer. That also solves the issue with Barding and Mounts. There will be no refunding or altering of existing allies because of that rule. See it as if a group of special animal trainers just arrived in Gladius. Barding may be refunded though (link this post to the refund).
NiQil 08-25-05, 11:36 AM	@ Cat/Pitlords This may solve the issue of animals and barding, but we still need a determination of what "trained for war" means as it relates to the riding dog being able to make trip attacks like wolves. Edit: Also, since there are not any changes to existing allies allowed, should those that are currently using barding on animals without the feats for it be allowed/required to sell the barding at full price? Or just the normal half price?
Pitlords 08-25-05, 11:40 AM	I think the current Elder Poll will take care of that.
sloisel 08-25-05, 11:52 AM	So, Dromites Energy Ray, Half-Giants Stomp and Psionic Duergar Inivisibility and Expansion, never improve? RAW looks iffy. However, since they are described as character races without racial HD's, I'd guess that when it says "HD" in the race descriptions, RAI mean "total HD." I think the exception is more for things that do have racial hit dice and are described in the monster entries. Good question, though. Scratch that. The FAQ talks about special attacks, what you talk about is spell-like abilities, which aren't special attacks. Sebastien Loisel
Cerebus13 08-25-05, 01:38 PM	@Pitlords Does this Ally customization apply to Familiars as well? Do you need to spend credits to change them as well since Familiars are not purchased from the equipment list?
Snommelp 08-25-05, 01:40 PM	I'm assuming we only post violations in the prison if the violation helps the offender, yes? Laughing Dragon, Kregor's grapple modifier is too low. You forgot size.
Altaris13 08-25-05, 02:42 PM	Whew... Archie Longbow (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7042212) has lots of errors. Exp: 1188 (3000) - First of all, you start with 3200 XP. Second, you cannot spend enough XP to drop you a level. So the most you can spend is 200xp. Hit Points: 10.5 [4+(2.5(1))+4 con] - You drop the .5 until you gain whole numbers. HP = 10 Attacks: +1 melee, Greatsword, 2d6+0 [19-20/x2] - -3 melee +1 melee, Longspear, 1d8+0 [20/x3] - -3 melee +6 ranged, [ma]Composite Longbow 1d8 [20/x3] [110' range] - +2 ranged Racial abilities: Tiefling characters possess the following racial traits. +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, –2 Charisma. Medium size. A tiefling’s base land speed is 30 feet. Darkvision out to 60 feet. Racial Skills: Tieflings have a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Hide checks. Racial Feats: A tiefling gains feats according to its class levels. Special Attacks: Darkness. Special Qualities: Resistance to cold 5, electricity 5, and fire 5. Automatic Languages: Common, Infernal. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc. Favored Class: Rogue. Level adjustment +1. Outsider traits: DO NOT APPLY TO YOU. See above for feats. You have the outsider traits, but your Tiefling traits take precendence. Skills (35 Points Wizard): +7 Concentration [5 ranks, +2 con] +9 Escape Artist [5 ranks, +3 dex] - Your math is wrong anyway. But this is not a class skill for wizards. Cross Class ranks = 2.5, total bonus is +5 +6 Profession: Bounty Hunter [5 ranks, +1 int] +8 Spot [2.5 ranks(5wiz(cc)), +1 wiz, +5 familiar] +5 Listen [2.5 ranks(5wiz(cc)), +1 wiz, +2 familiar] +8 Spellcraft [5 ranks, +3 int] +8 Tumble [5 ranks, +3 dex] - This is not a class skill for wizards. Cross Class ranks = 2.5, total bonus is +5 Encumberance: You are in a medium load. If you exceed your 33lbs AT ALL, then you are encumbered. You do not get 33.9 pounds to carry. Comments in green in the quoted section. <snip> But ya, otherwise the character is correct. Altaris, i suggest you at least research it before posting something like that. That's quite a boo-boo you made. No worries, we are all here to learn, and i'm now been made curious about that LA+1 thing and how it equates to "extra" experience points. -ToK You shouldn't presume that I /didn't/ research it, for you are wrong in that assumption. PLANETOUCHED Planetouched is a general word to describe someone who can trace his or her bloodline back to an outsider, usually a fiend or celestial. The effects of having a supernatural being in one’s heritage last for many generations. Although not as dramatically altered as a half-celestial or a half-fiend, planetouched still retain some special qualities. The two planetouched varieties described here are the most common. Aasimars are humans with some trace of celestial blood in their veins, and tieflings have some fiendishness in their family tree. AASIMAR Aasimar, 1st-Level Warrior Medium Outsider (Native) Hit Dice: 1d8+1 (5 hp) Initiative: +4 Speed: 20 ft. in scale mail (4 squares); base speed 30 ft. Armor Class: 16 (+4 scale mail, +2 heavy shield), touch 10, flat-footed 16 Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+2 Attack: Longsword +2 melee (1d8+1/19–20) or light crossbow +1 ranged (1d8/19–20) Full Attack: Longsword +2 melee (1d8+1/19–20) or light crossbow +1 ranged (1d8/19–20) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Daylight Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., resistance to acid 5, cold 5, and electricity 5 Saves: Fort +3, Ref +0, Will +0 Abilities: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 10 Skills: Heal +4, Knowledge (religion) +1, Listen +3, Ride +1, Spot +3 Feats: Improved Initiative Environment: Temperate plains Organization: Solitary, pair, or team (3–4) Challenge Rating: 1/2 Treasure: Standard Alignment: Usually good (any) Advancement: By character class Level Adjustment: +1 Aasimars are usually tall, good-looking, and generally pleasant. Some have a minor physical trait suggesting their heritage, such as silver hair, golden eyes, or an unnaturally intense stare. Most aasimars are decidedly good-aligned. They fight against evil causes and attempt to sway others to do the right thing. Occasionally they take on the vengeful, judgmental aspect of their celestial ancestor, but this is rare. Combat Aasimars usually like a fair, straightforward contest. Against a particularly evil foe, however, they fight with utter conviction and to the death. Daylight (Sp): An aasimar can use daylight once per day as a 1st-level caster or a caster of his class levels, whichever is higher. Skills: An aasimar has a +2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks. The aasimar warrior presented here had the following ability scores before racial adjustments: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8. Aasimar as Characters Aasimar characters possess the following racial traits. +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma. Medium size. An aasimar’s base land speed is 30 feet. Darkvision: Aasimars can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Racial Skills: Aasimars have a +2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks. Racial Feats: An aasimar gains feats according to its class levels. Special Attacks (see above): Daylight. Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to acid 5, cold 5, and electricity 5. Automatic Languages: Common, Celestial. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling,Sylvan. Favored Class: Paladin. Level adjustment +1. TIEFLING Tiefling, 1st-Level Warrior Medium Outsider (Native) Hit Dice: 1d8+1 (5 hp) Initiative: +1 Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares) Armor Class: 15 (+1 Dex, +3 studded leather, +1 light shield), touch 11, flat-footed 14 Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+2 Attack: Rapier +3 melee (1d6+1/18–20) or light crossbow +2 ranged (1d8/19–20) Full Attack: Rapier +3 melee (1d6+1/18–20) or light crossbow +2 ranged (1d8/19–20) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Darkness Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., resistance to cold 5, electricity 5, and fire 5 Saves: Fort +3, Ref +1, Will –1 Abilities: Str 13, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 9, Cha 6 Skills: Bluff +4, Hide +5, Move Silently +1, Sleight of Hand +1 Feats: Weapon Focus (rapier) Environment: Temperate plains Organization: Solitary, pair, or gang (3–4) Challenge Rating: 1/2 Treasure: Standard Alignment: Usually evil (any) Advancement: By character class Level Adjustment: +1 Many tieflings are indistinguishable from humans. Others have small horns, pointed teeth, red eyes, a whiff of brimstone about them, or even cloven feet. No two tieflings are the same. Combat Tieflings are sneaky, subtle, and generally conniving. They prefer to strike from ambush and usually avoid a fair fight if they can. Darkness (Sp): A tiefling can use darkness once per day (caster level equal to class levels). Skills: A tiefling has a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Hide checks. The tiefling warrior presented here had the following ability scores before racial adjustments: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8. Tieflings as Characters Tiefling characters possess the following racial traits. +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, –2 Charisma. Medium size. A tiefling’s base land speed is 30 feet. Darkvision out to 60 feet. Racial Skills: Tieflings have a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Hide checks. Racial Feats: A tiefling gains feats according to its class levels. Special Attacks (see above): Darkness. Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to cold 5, electricity 5, and fire 5. Automatic Languages: Common, Infernal. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc. Favored Class: Rogue. Level adjustment +1. I see nothing there that says that Planetouched get the traits of Outsiders. No where does it list that the above traits are in addition to the traits of its type. If you refer to Gnomes, Elves, Dwarves etc, then each subrace lists the changes to that subrace which are "in addition" to the traits of the race. See below: Emphasis mine. Outsider Type An outsider is at least partially composed of the essence (but not necessarily the material) of some plane other than the Material Plane. Some creatures start out as some other type and become outsiders when they attain a higher (or lower) state of spiritual existence. Features An outsider has the following features. 8-sided Hit Dice. Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (as fighter). Good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves. Skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die. Traits An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry). Darkvision out to 60 feet. Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry. Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor. Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep. So... Since Tiefling notes otherwise in its entry, Tieflings DO NOT get proficieny with all simple & martial weapons, so on and so forth.
Pitlords 08-25-05, 02:47 PM	@Pitlords Does this Ally customization apply to Familiars as well? Do you need to spend credits to change them as well since Familiars are not purchased from the equipment list? Familiars are normal animals before you pay 100 gold to make it a familiar thus you could use a customized animal as a familar. This however involves a miniquest and the credit cost just like if you would quest for a handle animal ally. Damn FAQ: Allies has reached its max of 50.000 characters. :mad:
sloisel 08-25-05, 02:50 PM	You shouldn't presume that I /didn't/ research it, for you are wrong in that assumption. I see nothing there that says that Planetouched get the traits of Outsiders. No where does it list that the above traits are in addition to the traits of its type. If you refer to Gnomes, Elves, Dwarves etc, then each subrace lists the changes to that subrace which are "in addition" to the traits of the race. I don't intend to participate in this discussion past this post because I've got a hunch that this isn't really up for negotiation, but I also think there's some sort of problem there and it isn't clear that Altaris13 is wrong. I think there's also an ambiguity with half-giants, elans and all other non-humanoid races. For instance, the dromite monster entry says: "Dromite characters possess the following racial traits." Doesn't sound to me like they're in addition to anything else, and it does seem like it's "noted otherwise in the creature's description." Sebastien Loisel
Snommelp 08-25-05, 02:50 PM	Maybe I missed it, but I don't see where the Tiefling entry specifically says what you say it says. I do not see the notation otherwise, as it were. Please point it out to me, maybe in that large, bold, uderlined, italicized type font you like.
Altaris13 08-25-05, 02:54 PM	But I do like the bold, underlined, italicized and dark red. :D Racial Feats: A tiefling gains feats according to its class levels.
Snommelp 08-25-05, 02:58 PM	Forgive me, Altaris, but I don't see how that bit about racial feats negates the weapon proficiencies. Elves, after all, are proficient with some weapons, and yet it does not take a feat for them to be so. It seems to me more likely that this instance is an overlap, not an override.
Gonbow 08-25-05, 03:04 PM	Altaris13's arguement: Tieflings only get feats as per their character classes. This keeps the Outsider traits from giving them free feats. Counter-arguement: Altaris13 is completey correct. The Outsider traits cannot give them bonus feats; and isn't trying to do so! It is giving them proficiencies. Just as proficiencies from character classes are not listed as bonus feats, neither are these. Feats are not the only way to get proficiencies, and with martial weapons they are probably the worst way to do so. Ipso factum: Tieflings (and Aasimar) are proficient with simple and martial weapons, regardless of class or level.
Altaris13 08-25-05, 03:15 PM	OK, I see where you're coming from now. But that is splitting hairs. Weapon Proficiencies ARE feats, just as Armor Proficiencies are.
michael_noah 08-25-05, 03:16 PM	Altaris13's arguement: Tieflings only get feats as per their character classes. This keeps the Outsider traits from giving them free feats. Counter-arguement: Altaris13 is completey correct. The Outsider traits cannot give them bonus feats; and isn't trying to do so! It is giving them proficiencies. Just as proficiencies from character classes are not listed as bonus feats, neither are these. Feats are not the only way to get proficiencies, and with martial weapons they are probably the worst way to do so. Ipso factum: Tieflings (and Aasimar) are proficient with simple and martial weapons, regardless of class or level. I think the whole thing is pretty clear. The Tiefling and Aasimar entries say that they gain feats according to class levels. Even if the proficiencies granted by the outsider type are feats, it does not say ("otherwise") in the entry that they do not gain these feats. It merely says that they do gain feats from class levels.
Pittbull 08-25-05, 03:19 PM	Counter-arguement: Altaris13 is completey correct. The Outsider traits cannot give them bonus feats; and isn't trying to do so! It is giving them proficiencies. Just as proficiencies from character classes are not listed as bonus feats, neither are these. Feats are not the only way to get proficiencies, and with martial weapons they are probably the worst way to do so. Ipso factum: Tieflings (and Aasimar) are proficient with simple and martial weapons, regardless of class or level. That's right, but now I have a really crazy idea: A giant possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry): - Proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as any natural weapons. Are Half-Giants then proficient with their natural weapons too? That could mean that they need not to take the unarmed combat-feat for getting the improved grapple-feat? Please give me some input, what do you think?
McJarvis 08-25-05, 03:43 PM	Altaris13's arguement: Tieflings only get feats as per their character classes. This keeps the Outsider traits from giving them free feats. ...but we also know that critters in the Monster Manual are automatically proficient with what they are wearing. This means Tiefs get light armor prof and Asims get medium armor prof. Which means they get feats that are not a part of character classes, so there ARE exceptions. And it doesn't say they don't get outsider traits...
michael_noah 08-25-05, 03:47 PM	That's right, but now I have a really crazy idea: Are Half-Giants then proficient with their natural weapons too? That could mean that they need not to take the unarmed combat-feat for getting the improved grapple-feat? Please give me some input, what do you think? Half-Giants don't have any natural weapons. Unarmed strikes aren't natural weapons, they are merely considered natural weapons for the purposes of spells and effects that do stuff to them. And, it doesn't matter if they do or not. Improved grapple requires Improved Unarmed Strike. So, you need the feat. End of story.
Caterane 08-25-05, 04:04 PM	Half-Giants don't have any natural weapons. Unarmed strikes aren't natural weapons, they are merely considered natural weapons for the purposes of spells and effects that do stuff to them. And, it doesn't matter if they do or not. Improved grapple requires Improved Unarmed Strike. So, you need the feat. End of story. Not exactly. There are creatures in the monster manual that have the impr.grapple feat but not stunning fist. I can recall the Bebilith from the top of my head but I know for sure that there are others. That implies that natural weapons qualify as prerequisite. I agree on the Half-Giant though. He has no natural weapons.
sloisel 08-25-05, 04:22 PM	Not exactly. There are creatures in the monster manual that have the impr.grapple feat but not stunning fist. I can recall the Bebilith from the top of my head but I know for sure that there are others. That implies that natural weapons qualify as prerequisite. No it doesn't. Monsters that come with feats don't need the prereqs. I read it today or yesterday. I'll edit this post later with a precise reference. Update: it's the "bonus feat" description under "feats" here. (http://d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm) On the weapon and armor proficiencies, I think they just screwed up. I think they meant for the half-giant and friends to have exactly the set of feats that it says in the character race entry (those entries are made to be more complete than monster entries.) I also think that for the most part, when they enumerate the racial traits, those were meant to be the "unless otherwise noted in the creature's entry" exception. However, they screwed it up completely. The hill giant lists all the weapon and armor proficiencies that hill giants have, which is simple and martial weapons. It also says light and medium armor, and shield proficiency. This matches perfectly with the giant type. Right next to it, we have the stone giant, which fails to list the weapons and armor proficiencies, and yet is wearing hide armor. Sebastien Loisel
Altaris13 08-25-05, 04:37 PM	Regardless of your interpretation, and mine is obvious and unchanged, I believe that RAW and RAI are such that neither of the Planetouched races gain Simple & Martial weapon proficiencies. They are only LA+1, which accounts for the rest of their abilities listed in their entries. So disagree is to completely abuse the poorly worded entries in the MM.
xanadu 08-25-05, 04:55 PM	OMG, what's up with the rule-lawyering? Originally Posted by SRD, Tiefling Entry Originally Posted by SRD, Tiefling Entry Racial Feats: A tiefling gains feats according to its class levels. Gains, as in aquiring new ones. As in in addition to its default feats (i.e. one first level feat) Also, gains as in does not eliminate the qualities gained from its outsider status. Feats and outsider traits are completely independant of each other. Outsiders are proficient with martial weapons because they are outsiders, not because of any feat they have or do not have.
McJarvis 08-25-05, 05:02 PM	OMG, what's up with the rule-lawyering? Gains, as in aquiring new ones. As in in addition to its default feats (i.e. one first level feat) Also, gains as in does not eliminate the qualities gained from its outsider status. Feats and outsider traits are completely independant of each other. Outsiders are proficient with martial weapons because they are outsiders, not because of any feat they have or do not have. To pound this point in further, the humanoid type even specifically says that humanoids have proficiency with all simple weapons, or by character class. Outsiders do not have the "or by character class" part.
sloisel 08-25-05, 06:24 PM	On another note... Do you think you know how stacking works? Think again! If a cleric 8/psychic warrior 1 casts magic vestment +2 enhancement on his chain shirt and thicken skin +1 enhancement on his skin/natural armor, what's his AC? If you answered 16, you are wrong. If you answered 17, you are correct! (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040127a) And the price is right! Come on down! On a similar note, a dude with padded +5 armor and bracers of armor +4 has AC 16 (10+1 padded +5), not 19 (10+4 bracer +5 enhancement). Also works with barkskin.
sloisel 08-25-05, 06:50 PM	So what are the new and improved rules for story writing now? If I write a true blue arena fight story, that's zero credit? Is it better to write a Conan-style story, complete with evil temples, untold riches and sultry half-naked priestesses? What if I prefer discworld wackyness? ("Corporal, were you about to kill innocent civilians?" -- "Sir no sir! Jes a warning shot inna head sir!") Or how about if I write a gonzo journalist style story (with apologies to Hunter S. Thompson, whose ashes were shot out of a cannon last week.) This last one would fit my madness domain character, I think. Sebastien Loisel
TelinArtho 08-26-05, 10:41 AM	To preempt Kaigan letting people know - it looks like GuardianAngel is no longer posting at CoCo - per his recent message. This likely means there is an opening for the Drums of War campaign which is set to start in 2 weeks. /d
sloisel 08-26-05, 11:23 AM	To preempt Kaigan letting people know - it looks like GuardianAngel is no longer posting at CoCo - per his recent message. This likely means there is an opening for the Drums of War campaign which is set to start in 2 weeks. Which message?
TelinArtho 08-26-05, 11:25 AM	This one: Sorry (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=490482)
TelinArtho 08-26-05, 11:30 AM	Okay, now that I've done some more research, I've figured out that Vakkor won't be able to fully train his centipedes without improving his handle animal skill (by at least 4 points) Currently, I see a couple of options: 1. Wait until I'm level 4 (+1 rank, +3 from circlet of persuasion (+3 to all Cha skills). 2. Craft a cutom item. So going with custom item, here's what I can do: A Circlet of Animal Friendship (+5 competence bonus to Handle Animal). This circlet is based on the many skill-improvement items (Cloak of Elvenkind, Boots of Elvenkind, Ring of Swimming, etc). It would cost 2500gp and 5 credits. Also, to craft it, you would need Craft Wondrous Item and at least 5 ranks in Handle Animal. If there is worry about balance (giving a bonus to handle animal does give me access to a greater array of animals - but I'm still limited by the max ally HD restriction), I'm willing to restrict the bonus to just Training with the Handle Animal skill.
NiQil 08-26-05, 11:33 AM	Okay, now that I've done some more research, I've figured out that Vakkor won't be able to fully train his centipedes without improving his handle animal skill (by at least 4 points) Currently, I see a couple of options: 1. Wait until I'm level 4 (+1 rank, +3 from circlet of persuasion (+3 to all Cha skills). 2. Craft a cutom item. So going with custom item, here's what I can do: A Circlet of Animal Friendship (+5 competence bonus to Handle Animal). This circlet is based on the many skill-improvement items (Cloak of Elvenkind, Boots of Elvenkind, Ring of Swimming, etc). It would cost 2500gp and 5 credits. Also, to craft it, you would need Craft Wondrous Item and at least 5 ranks in Handle Animal. If there is worry about balance (giving a bonus to handle animal does give me access to a greater array of animals - but I'm still limited by the max ally HD restriction), I'm willing to restrict the bonus to just Training with the Handle Animal skill. Another option would be to take advantage of the NPC Animal Trainers that Gladius offers.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-26-05, 11:39 AM	We have had this discussion in depth many many moons ago. A tiefling IS and outsider and ALL outsiders are proficient in martial weapons. We've sought many independant opinion, from the players in the character optimization board, to wotc, to the Nyrond Rules Monkeys, to everything. It was unanimously agreed that they have the martial weapon proficiency. So, whatever rules lawyering, or twisted logic you try to apply to say they DO NOT, let it go. They do, accept it...deal with it. -ToK
TelinArtho 08-26-05, 12:10 PM	@NiQil - I looked that up, but saw there were no costs listed - and since Vakkor is going to train A LOT of vermin, I figured it would be better to just get the boost to his skill. If a cost wants to be added for training tricks to "basic vermin" - I'm all for it though... /d
NiQil 08-26-05, 12:18 PM	@NiQil - I looked that up, but saw there were no costs listed - and since Vakkor is going to train A LOT of vermin, I figured it would be better to just get the boost to his skill. If a cost wants to be added for training tricks to "basic vermin" - I'm all for it though... /d As far as I know, it is a free activity. I beliave it just sits that character out of the arena that week (but it is still listed as active), the same way that crafting something over 1000 gp would. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that is how it is set up. Edit: Actually, I did have it slightly wrong. Below is from the Rules Thread What kind of services can I make use of? There are different kinds of services which a character can make use of. Of course they all cost hard-earned money. Animal Trainers: Most bought animals are already trained but you can opt to buy an untrained version of this animal. Exotic beast always come untrained. Since not every gladiator has the necessary skill to train or rear an animal or a magical beast even, he can hire a professional trainer to do this job for him. Animals and Magical Beast acquired on quests can be trained by a trainer but it requires six weeks to complete during which the beast is not available. Code: Fees for Animal Trainers: Basic Animals.......50 gp (per trick) Giant Eagle.......1000 gp Griffon...........1500 gp Hippogriff........1000 gp Giant Owl.........1000 gp Pegasus...........1000 gp Spider Eater......3000 gp So if I am understanding this right, you would pay the associated fees per trick. I guess you would then just need to see which category your vermin fall into.
Sunwolf 08-26-05, 12:33 PM	As one of the higher level monk players currently in Living Gladius I would like to bring up a couple of issues that should get rulings: 1) Improved Natural Attack Can monks take this feat to improve their unarmed strike damage? This is a issue with some controversy. I believe that in the past the Core Collesium (previous incarnation of Living Gladius) allowed monks to take this feat. Unfortunately, I can not prove this as links to the older monk gladiators like Rito and Brackin don't seem to be working for me. Can we have an elder ruling on this issue? 2) Psionic feats that apply to unarmed strikes: Can feats like 'psionic weapon' be used with unarmed strikes? A monk's unarmed strike is treated as a manufactured and natural weapon for spells and effects. Don't feats count as affects? From SRD: A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons. Psionic Weapon [Psionic] You can charge your melee weapon with additional damage potential. Prerequisite Str 13. Benefit To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. Your attack with a melee weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of damage. You must decide whether or not to use this feat prior to making an attack. If your attack misses, you still expend your psionic focus Psionic fist on the other hand includes natural weapons (like claws, bites etc) in its wording. Psionic Fist [Psionic] You can charge your unarmed strike or natural weapon with additional damage potential. Prerequisite Str 13. Benefit To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. Your unarmed strike or attack with a natural weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of damage. You must decide whether or not to use this feat prior to making an attack. If your attack misses, you still expend your psionic focus. So what is the ruling on this set of feats? Can monks use psionic weapon with their unarmed strikes or must they use psionic fist? This was also posted in the Council of Gladius thread.
TelinArtho 08-26-05, 01:08 PM	So, here's a question: Has anyone ever actually died on a quest? Xanadu's character The Pulverizer just got taken down in one hit for 27 damage from a lucky critical with a longspear... he's not dead, but certainly The Phantom Lord will need to find a way to heal him quickly... For more - tune in to the quest called: "Bring out yer Dead! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=486891)"
NiQil 08-26-05, 01:10 PM	As one of the higher level monk players currently in Living Gladius I would like to bring up a couple of issues that should get rulings: 1) Improved Natural Attack Can monks take this feat to improve their unarmed strike damage? This is a issue with some controversy. I believe that in the past the Core Collesium (previous incarnation of Living Gladius) allowed monks to take this feat. Unfortunately, I can not prove this as links to the older monk gladiators like Rito and Brackin don't seem to be working for me. Can we have an elder ruling on this issue? 2) Psionic feats that apply to unarmed strikes: Can feats like 'psionic weapon' be used with unarmed strikes? A monk's unarmed strike is treated as a manufactured and natural weapon for spells and effects. Don't feats count as affects? From SRD: Psionic fist on the other hand includes natural weapons (like claws, bites etc) in its wording. So what is the ruling on this set of feats? Can monks use psionic weapon with their unarmed strikes or must they use psionic fist? This was also posted in the Council of Gladius thread. I would definitely say that you would need psionic fist, since I think it is fairly obvious that psionic weapon was not intended for monks. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
nightbanegod 08-26-05, 01:24 PM	As one of the higher level monk players currently in Living Gladius I would like to bring up a couple of issues that should get rulings: 1) Improved Natural Attack Can monks take this feat to improve their unarmed strike damage? This is a issue with some controversy. I believe that in the past the Core Collesium (previous incarnation of Living Gladius) allowed monks to take this feat. Unfortunately, I can not prove this as links to the older monk gladiators like Rito and Brackin don't seem to be working for me. Can we have an elder ruling on this issue? 2) Psionic feats that apply to unarmed strikes: Can feats like 'psionic weapon' be used with unarmed strikes? A monk's unarmed strike is treated as a manufactured and natural weapon for spells and effects. Don't feats count as affects? From SRD: Psionic fist on the other hand includes natural weapons (like claws, bites etc) in its wording. So what is the ruling on this set of feats? Can monks use psionic weapon with their unarmed strikes or must they use psionic fist? This was also posted in the Council of Gladius thread. out of curiousity ... if both of the feats do the same thing but just have different targets, (natural weapons vs manufactured) what does it matter which one you pick? unless your trying to go for something else in the process :confused:
Gonbow 08-26-05, 01:41 PM	out of curiousity ... if both of the feats do the same thing but just have different targets, (natural weapons vs manufactured) what does it matter which one you pick? unless your trying to go for something else in the process :confused: If we let monks use psionic weapon, the person can use the same feat with his fist as he can with his ranseur/greatsword/etc. Thus, psionic weapon becomes more versatile and more powerful and more attractive. Whereas, if he has to get Fist, he needs /two/ feats to boost his weapon damage and his fist damage. See the difference?
nightbanegod 08-26-05, 01:42 PM	If we let monks use psionic weapon, the person can use the same feat with his fist as he can with his ranseur/greatsword/etc. Thus, psionic weapon becomes more versatile and more powerful and more attractive. Whereas, if he has to get Fist, he needs /two/ feats to boost his weapon damage and his fist damage. See the difference? Ahh it suddenly makes sense now... ok ... looking for a final word for all non standard races that are treated as something else instead of humanoid... outsiders, half giants, and what not... are they officially proficient racially with anything listed in the respective monsters entry in the MM and what other traits to they possess, for example if you pick up the epic feat Planar Turning .... could you then turn any of the planetouched and what not.... just looking for benefits to be spelled out per nonstandard character class.... perhaps an addendum could be added to the allowed races post as to some of the indirect benifits of some races that are not neccessarily spelled out in the creatures entry
waywreth 08-26-05, 01:44 PM	Few questions: 1. Can I buy a scroll that's higher level than I can cast spellwise but the scroll is at the minimum level needed to cast the spell (aka it's a 3rd level spell, so you need to be 5th level to scribe it)? If so does it cost credits... 2. I want to sell back some used armor. Am I correct that I get half of what I paid for it? 3. If you're over your max weight I know you can't move and/or attack... are you thus considered helpless? What can/can't you do in this situation?
Gonbow 08-26-05, 02:00 PM	Ahh it suddenly makes sense now... ok ... looking for a final word for all non standard races that are treated as something else instead of humanoid... outsiders, half giants, and what not... are they officially proficient racially with anything listed in the respective monsters entry in the MM and what other traits to they possess, for example if you pick up the epic feat Planar Turning .... could you then turn any of the planetouched and what not.... just looking for benefits to be spelled out per nonstandard character class.... perhaps an addendum could be added to the allowed races post as to some of the indirect benifits of some races that are not neccessarily spelled out in the creatures entry There isn't a final word, because oft it is case by case. I.E: A stone giant gets everything it is shown with, but a half-giant doesn't. And why is that? Racial Hit Dice. Stone giants have them, half-giants don't. You'll note that everything without racial hitdice is listed as a 1st level 'something' (usually warrior)? The listing gives them various things as appropriate for the 'something'. Okay, why do Tieflings get more than Half-giants? Because Outsiders > Giants. I'm serious. All outsiders get martial weapon proficiencies and simple weapon proficiency. As opposed to the vast majority of other creature types which get proficiencies for natural weapons and 'as listed'. And if the creature doesn't have racial HD, the 'as listed' is ignored, basically. The Character Optimization board is a good place to look for lists of benefits though. (I.E: Tiefling Wizard/Aasimar Sorcerer with Alter Self is significantly more powerful than just about anything else, though Elan's have some tricks up their sleeves too). There is a link the CO in the FAQ, near the very beginning.
Gonbow 08-26-05, 02:01 PM	Few questions: 1. Can I buy a scroll that's higher level than I can cast spellwise but the scroll is at the minimum level needed to cast the spell (aka it's a 3rd level spell, so you need to be 5th level to scribe it)? If so does it cost credits... 2. I want to sell back some used armor. Am I correct that I get half of what I paid for it? 3. If you're over your max weight I know you can't move and/or attack... are you thus considered helpless? What can/can't you do in this situation? 1. The caster level can be up to 2 higher than your character level without having to pay credits. 2. Yes. 3. Hell if I know, actually.
McJarvis 08-26-05, 02:08 PM	Ahh it suddenly makes sense now... ok ... looking for a final word for all non standard races that are treated as something else instead of humanoid... outsiders, half giants, and what not... are they officially proficient racially with anything listed in the respective monsters entry in the MM and what other traits to they possess, for example if you pick up the epic feat Planar Turning .... could you then turn any of the planetouched and what not.... just looking for benefits to be spelled out per nonstandard character class.... perhaps an addendum could be added to the allowed races post as to some of the indirect benifits of some races that are not neccessarily spelled out in the creatures entry You'll just have to check out the glossary of the Monster Manual(or The Monster Types (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monsterTypes.html) section of the SRD) for what various races get as a function of thier race. Humanoids get simple weapon profs if they don't have prof's from classes, all giants get martial weapon prof, all outsiders get martial weapon prof, etc, etc.
Luni 08-26-05, 02:13 PM	Few questions: 3. If you're over your max weight I know you can't move and/or attack... are you thus considered helpless? What can/can't you do in this situation? I've been using this from the SRD ifting and Dragging A character can lift as much as his or her maximum load over his or her head. A character can lift as much as double his or her maximum load off the ground, but he or she can only stagger around with it. While overloaded in this way, the character loses any Dexterity bonus to AC and can move only 5 feet per round (as a full-round action). I'd let a character attack still, though the fight is going to be over real fast.
Ribking 08-26-05, 02:37 PM	Hello everyone. I have been reading through the rules for a while and have finally decided to take the first step into the CoCo! I've created two characters, but will likely only play one for a while. I have some questions in regards to buying trained animals and having animals trained by NPCs. It states in the rules that it costs 50gp per trick for a regular animal. If I wanted to buy a riding dog trained to hunt, how much would it cost? Is there a rule for training for a purpose? Or is it only per trick? Is it possible to initially buy the riding dog trained to hunt, or would I have to buy the riding dog, and then spend the time and money to have him trained to hunt? Thanks in advance for your time and help. I hope to see you all in the arena! :D
NiQil 08-26-05, 02:42 PM	Hello everyone. I have been reading through the rules for a while and have finally decided to take the first step into the CoCo! I've created two characters, but will likely only play one for a while. I have some questions in regards to buying trained animals and having animals trained by NPCs. It states in the rules that it costs 50gp per trick for a regular animal. If I wanted to buy a riding dog trained to hunt, how much would it cost? Is there a rule for training for a purpose? Or is it only per trick? Is it possible to initially buy the riding dog trained to hunt, or would I have to buy the riding dog, and then spend the time and money to have him trained to hunt? Thanks in advance for your time and help. I hope to see you all in the arena! :D Welcome to the arena! As to your questions, riding dogs automatically come trained with the combat riding trick package (see below). Since they only have an Intelligence of 2, they can only learn 6 tricks, which, conveniently enough, is exactly how many tricks they come pretrained with. You can buy a dog untrained, and teach it up to 6 tricks yourself if you have the necessary skills, or you can pay an animal trainer 50 gp per trick (for a total cost of 300 gp if you have them train all 6 tricks). HANDLE ANIMAL (CHA; TRAINED ONLY) Check: The DC depends on what you are trying to do. Task Handle Animal DC Handle an animal 10 “Push” an animal 25 Teach an animal a trick 15 or 201 Train an animal for a general purpose 15 or 201 Rear a wild animal 15 + HD of animal 1See the specific trick or purpose below. General Purpose DC General Purpose DC Combat riding 20 Hunting 20 Fighting 20 Performance 15 Guarding 20 Riding 15 Heavy labor 15 Handle an Animal: This task involves commanding an animal to perform a task or trick that it knows. If the animal is wounded or has taken any nonlethal damage or ability score damage, the DC increases by 2. If your check succeeds, the animal performs the task or trick on its next action. “Push” an Animal: To push an animal means to get it to perform a task or trick that it doesn’t know but is physically capable of performing. This category also covers making an animal perform a forced march or forcing it to hustle for more than 1 hour between sleep cycles. If the animal is wounded or has taken any nonlethal damage or ability score damage, the DC increases by 2. If your check succeeds, the animal performs the task or trick on its next action. Teach an Animal a Trick: You can teach an animal a specific trick with one week of work and a successful Handle Animal check against the indicated DC. An animal with an Intelligence score of 1 can learn a maximum of three tricks, while an animal with an Intelligence score of 2 can learn a maximum of six tricks. Possible tricks (and their associated DCs) include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following. Attack (DC 20): The animal attacks apparent enemies. You may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal to attack, and it will comply if able. Normally, an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals. Teaching an animal to attack all creatures (including such unnatural creatures as undead and aberrations) counts as two tricks. Come (DC 15): The animal comes to you, even if it normally would not do so. Defend (DC 20): The animal defends you (or is ready to defend you if no threat is present), even without any command being given. Alternatively, you can command the animal to defend a specific other character. Down (DC 15): The animal breaks off from combat or otherwise backs down. An animal that doesn’t know this trick continues to fight until it must flee (due to injury, a fear effect, or the like) or its opponent is defeated. Fetch (DC 15): The animal goes and gets something. If you do not point out a specific item, the animal fetches some random object. Guard (DC 20): The animal stays in place and prevents others from approaching. Heel (DC 15): The animal follows you closely, even to places where it normally wouldn’t go. Perform (DC 15): The animal performs a variety of simple tricks, such as sitting up, rolling over, roaring or barking, and so on. Seek (DC 15): The animal moves into an area and looks around for anything that is obviously alive or animate. Stay (DC 15): The animal stays in place, waiting for you to return. It does not challenge other creatures that come by, though it still defends itself if it needs to. Track (DC 20): The animal tracks the scent presented to it. (This requires the animal to have the scent ability) Work (DC 15): The animal pulls or pushes a medium or heavy load. Train an Animal for a Purpose: Rather than teaching an animal individual tricks, you can simply train it for a general purpose. Essentially, an animal’s purpose represents a preselected set of known tricks that fit into a common scheme, such as guarding or heavy labor. The animal must meet all the normal prerequisites for all tricks included in the training package. If the package includes more than three tricks, the animal must have an Intelligence score of 2. An animal can be trained for only one general purpose, though if the creature is capable of learning additional tricks (above and beyond those included in its general purpose), it may do so. Training an animal for a purpose requires fewer checks than teaching individual tricks does, but no less time. Combat Riding (DC 20): An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. Training an animal for combat riding takes six weeks. You may also “upgrade” an animal trained for riding to one trained for combat riding by spending three weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal’s previous purpose and any tricks it once knew. Warhorses and riding dogs are already trained to bear riders into combat, and they don’t require any additional training for this purpose. Fighting (DC 20): An animal trained to engage in combat knows the tricks attack, down, and stay. Training an animal for fighting takes three weeks. Guarding (DC 20): An animal trained to guard knows the tricks attack, defend, down, and guard. Training an animal for guarding takes four weeks. Heavy Labor (DC 15): An animal trained for heavy labor knows the tricks come and work. Training an animal for heavy labor takes two weeks. Hunting (DC 20): An animal trained for hunting knows the tricks attack, down, fetch, heel, seek, and track. Training an animal for hunting takes six weeks. Performance (DC 15): An animal trained for performance knows the tricks come, fetch, heel, perform, and stay. Training an animal for performance takes five weeks. Riding (DC 15): An animal trained to bear a rider knows the tricks come, heel, and stay. Training an animal for riding takes three weeks. Rear a Wild Animal: To rear an animal means to raise a wild creature from infancy so that it becomes domesticated. A handler can rear as many as three creatures of the same kind at once. A successfully domesticated animal can be taught tricks at the same time it’s being raised, or it can be taught as a domesticated animal later. Action: Varies. Handling an animal is a move action, while pushing an animal is a full-round action. (A druid or ranger can handle her animal companion as a free action or push it as a move action.) For tasks with specific time frames noted above, you must spend half this time (at the rate of 3 hours per day per animal being handled) working toward completion of the task before you attempt the Handle Animal check. If the check fails, your attempt to teach, rear, or train the animal fails and you need not complete the teaching, rearing, or training time. If the check succeeds, you must invest the remainder of the time to complete the teaching, rearing, or training. If the time is interrupted or the task is not followed through to completion, the attempt to teach, rear, or train the animal automatically fails. Try Again: Yes, except for rearing an animal. Special: You can use this skill on a creature with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2 that is not an animal, but the DC of any such check increases by 5. Such creatures have the same limit on tricks known as animals do. A druid or ranger gains a +4 circumstance bonus on Handle Animal checks involving her animal companion. In addition, a druid’s or ranger’s animal companion knows one or more bonus tricks, which don’t count against the normal limit on tricks known and don’t require any training time or Handle Animal checks to teach. If you have the Animal Affinity feat, you get a +2 bonus on Handle Animal checks. Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Handle Animal, you get a +2 bonus on Ride checks and wild empathy checks. Untrained: If you have no ranks in Handle Animal, you can use a Charisma check to handle and push domestic animals, but you can’t teach, rear, or train animals. A druid or ranger with no ranks in Handle Animal can use a Charisma check to handle and push her animal companion, but she can’t teach, rear, or train other nondomestic animals.
Kaigan 08-26-05, 02:52 PM	@All questlords: I want one of my character, Aeiou to go on a quest next week if possible. I can send you information about the quest asap. Please respond by PM. Thanks. Kaigan
Ribking 08-26-05, 03:01 PM	You can buy a dog untrained, and teach it up to 6 tricks yourself if you have the necessary skills, or you can pay an animal trainer 50 gp per trickThanks for the reply! And fast too! Would I have to wait the full six weeks, or could I buy the fully trained dog immediately for 325gp?
Gonbow 08-26-05, 03:02 PM	Would I have to wait the full six weeks, or could I buy the fully trained dog immediately for 325gp? You can buy it immediately.
Ribking 08-26-05, 03:04 PM	Man this board moves fast! Thanks again for the almost immediate reply.
NiQil 08-26-05, 03:14 PM	I have seen it stated in the past by Cat and others (most recently in the barding discussion), that there is no progression for animals such as horses and dogs. I am wondering why we are not using the below rules for animal/monster progression with regard to cohorts. IMPROVING MONSTERS Each of the monster entries describes a typical creature of its kind. However, there are several methods by which extraordinary or unique monsters can be created using a typical creature as the foundation: by adding character classes, increasing a monster’s Hit Dice, or by adding a template to a monster. These methods are not mutually exclusive—it’s possible for a monster with a template to be improved by both increasing its Hit Dice and adding character class levels. Class Levels: Intelligent creatures that are reasonably humanoid in shape most commonly advance by adding class levels. Creatures that fall into this category have an entry of “By character class” in their Advancement line. When a monster adds a class level, that level usually represents an increase in experience and learned skills and capabilities. Increased Hit Dice: Intelligent creatures that are not humanoid in shape, and nonintelligent monsters, can advance by increasing their Hit Dice. Creatures with increased Hit Dice are usually superior specimens of their race, bigger and more powerful than their run-of-the-mill fellows. Templates: Both intelligent and nonintelligent creatures with an unusual heritage or an inflicted change in their essential nature may be modified with a template. Templates usually result in tougher monsters with capabilities that differ from those of their common kin. Each of these three methods for improving monsters is discussed in more detail below. ABILITY SCORE ARRAYS Monsters are assumed to have completely average (or standard) ability scores—a 10 or an 11 in each ability, as modified by their racial bonuses. However, improved monsters are individuals and often have better than normal ability scores, and usually make use of either the elite array or the nonelite array of ability scores. Monsters who improve by adding a template, and monsters who improve by increasing their Hit Dice, may use any of the three arrays (standard, nonelite, or elite). Any monster unique enough to be improved could easily be considered elite. Elite Array: The elite array is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. While the monster has one weakness compared to a typical member of its race, it is significantly better overall. The elite array is most appropriate for monsters who add levels in a player character class. Nonelite Array: The nonelite array is 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8. The nonelite array does not necessarily make a monster better than normal, but it does customize the monster as an individual with strengths and weaknesses compared to a typical member of its race. The nonelite array is most appropriate for monsters who add class levels in a NPC class. Ability Score Improvement: Treat monster Hit Dice the same as character level for determining ability score increases. This only applies to Hit Dice increases, monsters do not gain ability score increases for levels they “already reached” with their racial Hit Dice, since these adjustments are included in their basic ability scores. MONSTERS AND CLASS LEVELS If a creature acquires a character class, it follows the rules for multiclass characters. The creature’s Hit Dice equal the number of class levels it has plus its racial Hit Dice. A creature’s “monster class” is always a favored class, and the creature never takes XP penalties for having it. Additional Hit Dice gained from taking levels in a character class never affect a creature’s size. Humanoids and Class Levels: Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels. The monster loses the attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, skills, and feats granted by its 1 monster HD and gains the attack bonus, save bonuses, skills, feats, and other class abilities of a 1st-level character of the appropriate class. Level Adjustment and Effective Character Level: To determine the effective character level (ECL) of a monster character, add its level adjustment to its racial Hit Dice and character class levels. The monster is considered to have experience points equal to the minimum needed to be a character of its ECL. If you choose to equip a monster with gear, use its ECL as its character level for purposes of determining how much equipment it can purchase. Generally, only monsters with an Advancement entry of “By character class” receive NPC gear; other creatures adding character levels should be treated as monsters of the appropriate CR and assigned treasure, not equipment. Feat Acquisition and Ability Score Increases: A monster’s total Hit Dice, not its ECL, govern its acquisition of feats and ability score increases. INCREASING HIT DICE As its Hit Dice increase, a creature’s attack bonuses and saving throw modifiers might improve. It gains more feats and skills, depending on its type, as shown on Table: Creature Improvement by Type. Note that if a creature acquires a character class, it improves according to its class, not its type. Table: Creature Improvement by Type Hit Die Attack Bonus Good Saving Throws Skill Points* Aberration d8 HD x3/4 (as cleric) Will 2 + Int mod per HD Animal d8 HD x3/4 (as cleric) Fort, Ref (and sometimes Will) 2 + Int mod per HD Construct d10 HD x3/4 (as cleric) — 2 + Int mod per HD** Dragon d12 HD (as fighter) Fort, Ref, Will 6 + Int mod per HD Elemental d8 HD x3/4 (as cleric) Ref (Air, Fire), or Fort (Earth, Water) 2 + Int mod per HD Fey d6 HD x1/2 (as wizard) Ref, Will 6 + Int mod per HD Giant d8 HD x3/4 (as cleric) Fort 2 + Int mod per HD Humanoid d8 HD x3/4 (as cleric) Varies (any one) 2 + Int mod per HD Magical beast d10 HD (as fighter) Fort, Ref 2 + Int mod per HD Monstrous humanoid d8 HD (as fighter) Ref, Will 2 + Int mod per HD Ooze d10 HD x3/4 (as cleric) — 2 + Int mod per HD** Outsider d8 HD (as fighter) Fort, Ref, Will 8 + Int mod per HD Plant d8 HD x3/4 (as cleric) Fort 2 + Int mod per HD** Undead d12 HD x1/2 (as wizard) Will 4 + Int mod per HD** Vermin d8 HD x3/4 (as cleric) Fort 2 + Int mod per HD** All types have a number of feats equal to 1 + 1 per 3 Hit Dice. * As long as a creature has an Intelligence of at least 1, it gains a minimum of 1 skill point per Hit Die. ** Creatures with an Intelligence score of “—” gain no skill points or feats. SIZE INCREASES A creature may become larger when its Hit Dice are increased (the new size is noted parenthetically in the monster’s Advancement entry). A size increase affects any special ability the creature has that is affected by size. Increased size also affects a creature’s ability scores, AC, attack bonuses, and damage values as indicated on the tables below. Table: Changes to Statistics by Size Old Size* New Size Str Dex Con Natural Armor AC/ Attack Fine Diminutive Same –2 Same Same –4 Diminutive Tiny +2 –2 Same Same –2 Tiny Small +4 –2 Same Same –1 Small Medium +4 –2 +2 Same –1 Medium Large +8 –2 +4 +2 –1 Large Huge +8 –2 +4 +3 –1 Huge Gargantuan +8 Same +4 +4 –2 Gargantuan Colossal +8 Same +4 +5 –4 *Repeat the adjustment if the creature moves up more than one size. Table: Increased Damage By Size Old Damage (Each)* New Damage 1d2 1d3 1d3 1d4 1d4 1d6 1d6 1d8 1d8 2d6 1d10 2d8 2d6 3d6 2d8 3d8 * Repeat the adjustment if the creature moves up more than one size category. TEMPLATES Certain creatures are created by adding a template to an existing creature. A templated creature can represent a freak of nature, the individual creation of a single experimenter, or the first generation of offspring from parents of different species. ACQUIRED AND INHERITED TEMPLATES Some templates can be added to creatures anytime. Templates such as these are referred to as acquired templates, indicating that the creature did not always have the attributes of the template. Other templates, known as inherited templates, are part of a creature from the beginning of its existence. Creatures are born with these templates. It’s possible for a certain kind of template to be of either type. READING A TEMPLATE A template’s description provides a set of instructions for altering an existing creature, known as the base creature. The changes that a template might cause to each line of a creature ’s statistics block are discussed below. Generally, if a template does not cause a change to a certain statistic, that entry is missing from the template description. For clarity, the entry for a statistic or attribute that is not changed is sometimes given as “Same as the base creature.” Size and Type: Templates often change a creature’s type, and may change the creature’s size. If a template changes the base creature’s type, the creature also acquires the augmented subtype unless the template description indicates otherwise. The augmented subtype is always paired with the creature’s original type. Unless a template indicates otherwise, the new creature has the traits of the new type but the features of the original type. If a template changes a creature’s size, use Table: Changes to Statistics by Size to calculate changes to natural armor, Armor Class, attack rolls, and grapple bonus. Hit Dice and Hit Points: Most templates do not change the number of Hit Dice a monster has, but some do. Some templates change the size of a creature’s Hit Dice (usually by changing the creature type). A few templates change previously acquired Hit Dice, and continue to change Hit Dice gained with class levels, but most templates that change Hit Dice change only the creature’s original HD and leave class Hit Dice unchanged. If the Hit Dice entry in a template description is missing, Hit Dice and hit points do not change unless the creature’s Constitution modifier changes. Initiative: If a template changes the monster’s Dexterity, or if it adds or removes the Improved Initiative feat, this entry changes. Speed: If a template modifies a creature’s speed, the template states how that happens. More commonly, a template adds a new movement mode. Armor Class: If a template changes the creature’s size, see Table: Changes to Statistics by Size to determine its new Armor Class and to see whether its natural armor changes. In some cases the method of determining Armor Class changes radically; the template description explains how to adjust the creature’s AC. Base Attack/Grapple: Templates usually do not change a creature’s base attack bonus. If a template modifies a creature’s base attack bonus, the template description states how that happens. Changes to a creature’s Strength score can change a creature’s grapple bonus, as can changes to its size. Attack and Full Attack: Most templates do not change a creature’s attack bonus or modes of attack, even when the creature’s type changes (the creature’s base attack bonus is the same as a creature of the original type). Of course, any change in ability scores may affect attack bonuses. If Strength or Dexterity changes, use the new modifier to determine attack bonuses. A change in a monster’s size also changes its attack bonus; see Table: Changes to Statistics by Size. Damage: Damage changes with Strength. If the creature uses a two-handed weapon or has a single natural weapon, it adds 1-1/2 times its Strength bonus to the damage. If it has more than a single attack then it adds its Strength bonus to damage rolls for the primary attack and 1/2 its Strength bonus to all secondary attacks. Space/Reach: A template may change this entry if it changes the monster’s size. Note that this table does not take into account special situations such as exceptional reach. Special Attacks: A template may add or remove special attacks. The template description gives the details of any special attacks a template provides, including how to determine saving throw DCs, if applicable. Special Qualities: A template may add or remove special qualities. The template description gives the details of any special qualities a template provides, including how to determine saving throw DCs, if applicable. Even if the special qualities entry is missing from a template description, the creature still gains any qualities associated with its new type. Base Saves: As with attacks, changing a monster’s type does not always change its base saving throw bonuses. You only need to adjust them for new modifiers for Constitution, Dexterity, or Wisdom. A template may, however, state that a monster has a different “good” saving throw. Abilities: If a template changes one or more ability scores, these changes are noted here. Skills: As with attacks, changing a monster’s type does not always change its skill points. Most templates don’t change the number of Hit Dice a creature has, so you don’t need to adjust skills in that case unless the key abilities for those skills have changed, or the template gives a bonus on one or more skills, or unless the template gives a feat that provides a bonus on a skill check. Some templates change how skill points are determined, but this change usually only affects skill points gained after the template is applied. Treat skills listed in the base creature’s description as class skills, as well as any new skills provided by the template. Feats: Since most templates do not change the number of Hit Dice a creature has, a template will not change the number of feats the creature has. Some templates grant one or more bonus feats. Environment: Usually the same as the base creature. Organization: Usually the same as the base creature. Challenge Rating: Most templates increase the creature’s Challenge Rating. A template might provide a modifier to be added to the base creature’s CR, or it might specify a range of modifiers depending on the base creature’s original Hit Dice or CR. Treasure: Usually the same as the base creature. Alignment: Usually the same as the base creature, unless the template is associated with a certain alignment. Advancement: Usually the same as the base creature. Level Adjustment: This entry is a modifier to the base creature’s level adjustment. Any level adjustment is meaningless unless the creature retains a high enough Intelligence (minimum 3) to gain class levels after applying the template. Adding More Than One Template In theory, there’s no limit to the number of templates you can add to a creature. To add more than one template, just apply each template one at a time. Always apply inherited templates before applying acquired templates. Whenever you add multiple templates, pay attention to the creature’s type—you may add a template that makes the creature ineligible for other templates you might want to add. ADVANCED MONSTER CHALLENGE RATING When adding class levels to a creature with 1 or less HD, you advance the creature like a character. Otherwise, use the following guidelines. ADDING CLASS LEVELS If you are advancing a monster by adding player character class levels, decide if the class levels directly improve the monster’s existing capabilities. When adding class levels to a creature, you should give it typical ability scores appropriate for that class. Most creatures are built using the standard array of ability scores: 11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10, adjusted by racial modifiers. If you give a creature a PC class use the elite array of ability scores before racial adjustments: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. Creatures with NPC classes use the nonelite array of 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8. T Associated Class Levels Class levels that increase a monster’s existing strengths are known as associated class levels. Each associated class level a monster has increases its CR by 1. Barbarian, fighter, paladin, and ranger are associated classes for a creature that relies on its fighting ability. Rogue and ranger are associated classes for a creature that relies on stealth to surprise its foes, or on skill use to give itself an advantage. A spellcasting class is an associated class for a creature that already has the ability to cast spells as a character of the class in question, since the monster’s levels in the spellcasting class stack with its innate spellcasting ability. Nonassociated Class Levels If you add a class level that doesn’t directly play to a creature’s strength the class level is considered nonassociated, and things get a little more complicated. Adding a nonassociated class level to a monster increases its CR by 1/2 per level until one of its nonassociated class levels equals its original Hit Dice. At that point, each additional level of the same class or a similar one is considered associated and increases the monster’s CR by 1. Levels in NPC classes are always treated as nonassociated. ADDING HIT DICE When you improve a monster by adding Hit Dice, use Table: Improved Monster CR Increase to determine the effect on the creature’s CR. Keep in mind that many monsters that advance by adding Hit Dice also increase in size. Do not stack this CR increase with any increase from class levels. In general, once you’ve doubled a creature’s CR, you should closely watch any additional increases in its abilities. Adding Hit Dice to a creature improves several of its abilities, and radical increases might not follow this progression indefinitely. Compare the monster’s improved attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and any DCs of its special abilities from the HD increase to typical characters of the appropriate level and adjust the CR accordingly. Table: Improved Monster CR Increase Creature’s Original Type CR Increase Aberration, construct, elemental, fey, giant, humanoid, ooze, plant, undead, vermin +1 per 4 HD added Animal, magical beast, monstrous humanoid +1 per 3 HD added Dragon, outsider, nonassociated class levels +1 per 2 HD or 2 levels added Directly associated class levels +1 per level added Other Modifiers: Size increased to Large or larger +1 to CR Monster’s ability scores based on elite array* +1 to CR Monster possesses special attacks or qualities that significantly improve combat effectiveness +2 to CR Monster possesses special attacks or qualities that improve combat effectiveness in a minor way +1 to CR Template added + template CR modifier * Do not apply this increase if you advance a monster by class levels. (Monsters advanced by class levels are assumed to use the elite array.) INCREASING SIZE Generally, increasing a monster’s size increases its combat effectiveness. Large creatures gain increased Strength, reach, and other benefits. Apply this modifier if you increase a creature beyond Medium and in conjunction with any other increases. Be careful, though. Monsters that benefit from a smaller size may actually lose effectiveness because of a size increase. Monsters that don’t benefit from size increases don’t advance in that manner for this reason. ADDING SPECIAL ABILITIES You can add any sort of spell-like, supernatural, or extraordinary ability to a creature. As with a class level, you should determine how much, or how little, this ability adds to the creature’s existing repertoire. A suite of abilities that work together should be treated as a single modifier for this purpose. If the ability (or combination of abilities) significantly increases the monster’s combat effectiveness, increase its CR by 2. Minor abilities increase the creature’s CR by 1, and truly trivial abilities may not increase CR at all. If the special abilities a monster gains are not tied to a class or Hit Die increase, this CR increase stacks. A significant special attack is one that stands a good chance of incapacitating or crippling a character in one round. A significant special quality is one that seriously diminishes the monster’s vulnerability to common attacks. Do not add this factor twice if a monster has both special attacks and special qualities. Make sure to “scale” your evaluation of these abilities by the monster’s current CR. There are a variety of ways to increase powers of cohorts given. I personally would go with the Hit Die progression as the standard. But I am wondering if this was already considered and rejected, or if this was never looked at.
McJarvis 08-26-05, 03:22 PM	I have seen it stated in the past by Cat and others (most recently in the barding discussion), that there is no progression for animals such as horses and dogs. I am wondering why we are not using the below rules for animal/monster progression with regard to cohorts. There are a variety of ways to increase powers of cohorts given. I personally would go with the Hit Die progression as the standard. But I am wondering if this was already considered and rejected, or if this was never looked at. I would imagine it's because the entries for them have a - next to "advancement". I always thought those hd tables were for critters who DID have advancement.((for instance, a hyena is an animal that has hd advancement))
NiQil 08-26-05, 03:28 PM	You are correct, in that some animals do not allow for advancement in their SRD stat blocks, but some do. I guess a better way to phrase my question would be are we allowed to advance cohorts using these methods for animal and monsters that allow advancement? Edit: Nevermind...answered my own question.
SauroGrenom 08-26-05, 06:17 PM	In the following passage from the Prison thread, where I was thoughtfully audited by TelinArtho, I was told that Enlarge Person does not work with Half-Giants. I feel that the SRD appears to have a different opinion than TeliArtho. I would appreciate an official rulling on this. Audit of Rebreg Eennoss (SauroGrenom) Enlarge Person does not work on Half-Giants - might I recommend a Tatoo of Augmented Expansion (same effect, but different cost I believe). Powerful Build: The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. Bold emphasis is mine. I feel that this passage clearly states that powers and effects, like Enlarge Person will increase the base size and reach of a half-giant to Large, but he will gain the benefits for grapple, trip, bullrush, and so on as if he were infact Huge in size.
Snommelp 08-26-05, 06:21 PM	You're looking in the wrong place to find the violation. The reason Enlarge Person doesn't work is because it only works on humanoids, not giants.
SauroGrenom 08-26-05, 06:23 PM	Ahhh, I see. Ok, those snarky little details.
Caterane 08-26-05, 06:29 PM	The psionic power Expansion would work though ;) and Welcome to the CoCo!
SauroGrenom 08-26-05, 06:41 PM	The major downfall of Psionic Expansion is that it only has a durration of 1round/level where Enlarge Person lasts something like 50 times as long at only 2.5 times the cost. Another minor thing, TelinArtho said that totoos with a range of personal cost twice as much as normal, but I cannot find this in the SRD. Furthermore the Skate power is both touch and personal, so does it cost the higher amount or not?
Vathelokai 08-26-05, 06:47 PM	As I discovered in the last fight I ran, psionic expansion can have a larger durration for 2 extra PP. I belive a powerstone with that comes out cheaper.
Vathelokai 08-26-05, 06:53 PM	As for the skate thing, there was a huge debate here last month, and Cat ruled that if you are casting skate on yourself it is personal. Therefore a tatoo effecting yourself counts as personal, since tatoos count as 'cast by the tapper.'
SauroGrenom 08-26-05, 06:57 PM	Wouldn't such a tattoo be a nonstandard item and require a credit, which this noob doesn't have any of. If not how would you figure the cost and ML of such an item, it would require a 3rd level manifester, so my guess would be that its cost is 50x1(powerlevel)x3(ML)=150gp for a durration of 3minutes? Wait double that cost because the power is personal, so 300gp?
NiQil 08-26-05, 07:01 PM	The major downfall of Psionic Expansion is that it only has a durration of 1round/level where Enlarge Person lasts something like 50 times as long at only 2.5 times the cost. Another minor thing, TelinArtho said that totoos with a range of personal cost twice as much as normal, but I cannot find this in the SRD. Furthermore the Skate power is both touch and personal, so does it cost the higher amount or not? For the cost of personal tattoos: Creating Psionic Tattoos The creator of a psionic tattoo must have a patch of uncovered skin free of hair and fur, and at least a few containers in which to mix dyes. In addition, he needs special materials, usually to create dyes. The costs for materials and dyes are subsumed in the cost for scribing the psionic tattoo— 25 gp x the level of the power x the level of the manifester. All ingredients and materials used to scribe a psionic tattoo must be fresh and unused. The character must pay the full cost for scribing each psionic tattoo. (Economies of scale do not apply.) The user of the psionic tattoo is both the manifester and the target; therefore, powers that target another creature cannot be stored in psionic tattoo form. Powers with a range of personal can be made into psionic tattoos, but they cost double the price of standard psionic tattoos. The creator must know the power to be placed in the psionic tattoo (or must have the power available in some other form). If manifesting the power would reduce the manifester’s XP total, he pays the XP cost upon beginning the scribing in addition to the experience point cost for making the psionic tattoo itself. The act of scribing triggers the power as if it had been manifested, costing the character an appropriate number of power points. Scribing a psionic tattoo requires one day. Item Creation Feat Required: Scribe Tattoo. Emphasis mine. For the CoCo ruling on the cost of Skate tattoos, you can see it here. To save you time, it says that Skate tattoos cost double just like every other personal tattoo.
Mind Rogue 08-26-05, 07:05 PM	So... can someone give me an example of a tattoo that wouldn't cost double? To my knowledge, all of the psionic powers either are personal or it would be either pointless or foolhardy to use on yourself.
NiQil 08-26-05, 07:10 PM	So... can someone give me an example of a tattoo that wouldn't cost double? To my knowledge, all of the psionic powers either are personal or it would be either pointless or foolhardy to use on yourself. Bear in mind, that when talking about tattoos, you are also talking about crawling tattoos. Crawling tattoos are the ones that you generally want to you to deliver damage or effects. A nice early level choice is a crawling tattoo of Entangling Ectoplasm. Or you can put your damage powers, such as Mind Thrust, into a crawling tattoo. So the "standard" tattoos are almost always going to be personal/double the cost, while crawling tattoos are going to be the standard cost and carry the stuff that affects others.
Mind Rogue 08-26-05, 07:13 PM	Bear in mind, that when talking about tattoos, you are also talking about crawling tattoos. Crawling tattoos are the ones that you generally want to you to deliver damage or effects. A nice early level choice is a crawling tattoo of Entangling Ectoplasm. Or you can put your damage powers, such as Mind Thrust, into a crawling tattoo. So the "standard" tattoos are almost always going to be personal/double the cost, while crawling tattoos are going to be the standard cost and carry the stuff that affects others. I'm not talking about crawling tatoos, I'm talking about the tatoos that you tap and they bestow their power upon you. There just simply aren't any powers that you can put into the Scribe Tatoo feat that don't cost double. Besides, crawling tatoos are already priced so that they are effectively double that of an ordinary tatoo.
NiQil 08-26-05, 07:22 PM	I'm not talking about crawling tatoos, I'm talking about the tatoos that you tap and they bestow their power upon you. There just simply aren't any powers that you can put into the Scribe Tatoo feat that don't cost double. Besides, crawling tatoos are already priced so that they are effectively double that of an ordinary tatoo. I'm not sure what you mean by the cost being double....crawling tattoos cost the same as potions of equivalent caster/manifester level. As for powers, Astral Construct would work...Bestow Power would be useful in an actual campaign...Bolt is good for casters/manifesters that have low strength and don't want to carry ammo around...Call Weaponry would be hella useful to a rogue-type in a campaign.... And that is just skimming through them. Bear in mind, while there may not be many that are not personal range that are useful in CoCo, that doesn't mean they aren't useful in a normal game.
Mind Rogue 08-26-05, 08:08 PM	Hmmm. When did that happen? I'd sware a 1st level crawling tattoo was 100 gp. As for the powers you listed, you did find one counterexample for me; bestow power. The other powers you listed are not viable because they cannot affect the manifester. Rather, each and every last one of them creates something. Other than that, the only power that I can find that you could scribe as an ordinary psionic tatoo without doubling the cost is Astral Traveler. The rest of them either are personal (such as force screen or vigor), harmful (such as energy ray or crystal shard), invalid (such as bolt of grease), or else self defeating (such as sense link or missive).
NiQil 08-26-05, 08:20 PM	Tattoos aren't always meant to bestow powers on you. Hence the reason that personal range tattoos cost double. As for pricing... Market Price: The cost of a crawling tattoo depends on the level of the power scribed in it. Power Level Market Price 1st 50 gp 2nd 300 gp 3rd 750 gp
Vathelokai 08-26-05, 09:51 PM	Also, there is a house rule... Augmented Powerstones/Tattoos: For every two manifester levels above the minimum, the power level increases by one. This directly affects the pricing of such items. It only applies to augmented stones and tattoos. Unaugmented ones use the normal formula. Example: (augmented): Vigor [ML 5] = 25*5*3 = 375 gp [+25 hp] (unaugmented): Vigor [ML 5] = 25*5*1 = 125 gp [+5 hp] And the credit rule... You may pay credits to get the right to buy custom single-use expendable items with a higher casterlevel. This only applies to scrolls, tattoos (incl. crawling tattoos), and powerstones. You may pay 1° per 2 CL above the normal limit (max 20). Normally, you can only buy scrolls and powerstones up to your ECL+2, and minimum ML for tattoos. Note that two spells on one scroll still count as two custom items as do several custom powers stored within one powerstone! Example: Tattoo of expansion [ML 7], Powerstone of force screen [ML 9], Scroll of Time Stop [CL 17].
Mind Rogue 08-26-05, 10:06 PM	Tattoos aren't always meant to bestow powers on you. Hence the reason that personal range tattoos cost double. As for pricing... What part of the fact that the tapper is both the manifester and the target means that the power isn't necessarily suppossed to bestow powers on you? It's like a potion, the benefits apply to the user only, therefore its entire point is to bestow powers upon you (except for crawling tattoos, whose point is to bestow powers upon other people).
NiQil 08-26-05, 10:21 PM	What part of the fact that the tapper is both the manifester and the target means that the power isn't necessarily suppossed to bestow powers on you? It's like a potion, the benefits apply to the user only, therefore its entire point is to bestow powers upon you (except for crawling tattoos, whose point is to bestow powers upon other people). Just because you are the target, does not mean you are the recipient of bestowed powers. The power Bolt, for example, is not targeted at anyone, as all it does is create ammunition. It does not "bestow a power" of any kind. But because you are the tapper, you are considered the target, and therefore the ammunition created by said Bolt power is provided to you. Same with Call Weaponry. No "power bestowed" in the sense I am assuming you mean, but because you are the one tapping the power, you are the one that gets the weaponry that is called. Since there is no power bestowed directly on you (it is being supplied through indirect means), it is not a personal range and does not cost double. It's kinda like the invisibility thing with causing damage....direct vs indirect. With it being an indirectly bestowed power, such as supplying ammunition or summoning a construct, it does not carry the Personal range descriptor, and therefore is not subject to the double cost.
Mind Rogue 08-26-05, 11:12 PM	When its wearer physically activates the tattoo, the wearer is the target of the power. The user of the psionic tattoo is both the manifester and the target; therefore, powers that target another creature cannot be stored in psionic tattoo form. Powers with a range of personal can be made into psionic tattoos, but they cost double the price of standard psionic tattoos. Like a psionic tattoo, a crawling tattoo can be scribed only with a power of no higher than 3rd level that targets one or more creatures. I think this makes it self-evident that only powers with targets can be made into tattoos. Since bolt and call weaponry do not, they can not be made into psionic tattoos. The
NiQil 08-26-05, 11:25 PM	I think this makes it self-evident that only powers with targets can be made into tattoos. Since bolt and call weaponry do not, they can not be made into psionic tattoos. The I don't think it is self evident at all. Nothing you quoted says that a tattoo requires a target to be made into a tattoo. It just says that the user of the tattoo is the target of the tattoo, and that, excepting crawling tattoos, powers that target others cannot be made into tattoos. Nothing there says that a power itself has to designate a target in order to be made into a tattoo, it just says that the user of the tattoo is the target of whatever power is there. Again, direct vs indirect bestowment of powers. I've seen nothing to indicate that a 6 Str Psion couldn't scribe a tattoo of Bolt onto himself in order to have an ammunition source for his crossbow without having to actually carry the ammunition. Or that a psychic warrior who can't go somewhere armed can't scribe a tattoo of Call Weaponry onto himself to have a weapon on him at all times that can't be taken away by someone searching him.
McJarvis 08-26-05, 11:30 PM	In general, the lack of touch power buffs that Mind Rogue is referencing is probably an oversight on the devopers parts. I was trying to make a psion about a month ago that works by delivering touch powers via psi-crystal, and to my dismay there almost no such touch powers. It's like the developers started out thinking "yeah, we'll make some touch powers" and later said "personal is good enough"
NiQil 08-26-05, 11:43 PM	In general, the lack of touch power buffs that Mind Rogue is referencing is probably an oversight on the devopers parts. I was trying to make a psion about a month ago that works by delivering touch powers via psi-crystal, and to my dismay there almost no such touch powers. It's like the developers started out thinking "yeah, we'll make some touch powers" and later said "personal is good enough" I'm not referring to touch powers, but rather to powers with no target at all. Bolt, as an example, has a range of 0 ft, and has no target whatsoever. I have seen nothing in the XPH or the SRD to say this power could not be made into a tattoo, so that upon tapping it, ammunition materlizied at your feet, just like you had manifested the power from memory. Or Call Weaponry, which also has a range of 0 ft. Or Concealing Amorpha, which also has a range of 0 ft, and seems to be the psionic equivalent to blur (or so it appears based upon description). None of these powers has a range of personal, and I have seen nothing to indicate that *any of these powers could not be made into a psionic tattoo.
McJarvis 08-27-05, 09:39 AM	I'm not referring to touch powers, but rather to powers with no target at all. Bolt, as an example, has a range of 0 ft, and has no target whatsoever. I have seen nothing in the XPH or the SRD to say this power could not be made into a tattoo, so that upon tapping it, ammunition materlizied at your feet, just like you had manifested the power from memory. You mean like the first line on page 170 of the XPH under Psionic Tattoos? Psionic tattoos are designs scribed on the skin that manifest powers on their wearers. :) I would certainly consider that enough clarity to negate any chance of them being used for creation spells. Unless you want to create something inside you.... EDIT: And while you are certainly correct that nothing in the XPH expressly forbids creation spells to be used, techincally speaking there's nothing in D&D that says my character can't shoot bolts with a bow. What we DO have is the PhB expressly saying that arrows are ammunition for a bow, and bolts are ammunition for a crossbow. I think the rules are more based on what they allow you to do and not what they don't mention you can't do.
TelinArtho 08-27-05, 11:47 AM	Enough about the tatoos already - they aren't priced fairly - boo hoo... Just kidding. Anyway, back to my important question about an animal handling boost item. Would someone like to comment on what it would cost for credits?
NiQil 08-27-05, 12:36 PM	You mean like the first line on page 170 of the XPH under Psionic Tattoos? :) I would certainly consider that enough clarity to negate any chance of them being used for creation spells. Unless you want to create something inside you.... EDIT: And while you are certainly correct that nothing in the XPH expressly forbids creation spells to be used, techincally speaking there's nothing in D&D that says my character can't shoot bolts with a bow. What we DO have is the PhB expressly saying that arrows are ammunition for a bow, and bolts are ammunition for a crossbow. I think the rules are more based on what they allow you to do and not what they don't mention you can't do. See, I would still have to disagree with that. Stating that they are used to manifest powers on the user does not state that the power has to directly affect the user. A tattoo of Concealing Amorpha would manifest it's power upon the user, but it does not directly affect the user (range is 0 ft, not personal), so again, I see no reason it could not be made into a tattoo at the cost of 50 gp. Edit: And while you are correct about the bolts/bow analogy, there are also clearly outlined penalties for doing so (I would definitely consider that an improvised weapon, for instance). Heck, if I wanted to I could fire a chicken from a bow. But there would be definite penalties for doing so. The tattoo entries clearly outline what cannot be made into a tattoo. Just like the potion outlines outline what cannot be made into a potion. If it is not listed there (and I am still not convinced that anything quoted has said that the powers I am using as examples fall into these quotes), then they can be made into a power. Why else would there be a distinction between the cost of normal/crawling tattoos and tattoos with personal range?
Vathelokai 08-27-05, 01:06 PM	If you were to buy masterwork armor with armor spikes so that you could enchant it later, would you have to pay the armor MW price (150) and the spikes (300)? This seems to be what the rules are saying. You would also have to enchant the two seperately later as well, right?
NiQil 08-27-05, 01:20 PM	If you were to buy masterwork armor with armor spikes so that you could enchant it later, would you have to pay the armor MW price (150) and the spikes (300)? This seems to be what the rules are saying. You would also have to enchant the two seperately later as well, right? You are correct...because they are treated differently. For instance, you could have masterwork armor and mundane spikes, or mundane armor and masterwork spikes. To enchant them, whatever you are enchanting has to be masterwork. So you could have mundane armor, masterwork spikes, and then enchant the spikes. You would still have mundane armor, but now you would have +1 spikes. Or vice versa, you could end up woth +1 armor with mundane spikes. So to have them both masterwork, it would be [(150 + normal cost of the armor + any special material modifiers) + (300 + normal cost of the spikes + any special material modifiers)]
Tellish_of_Ket 08-27-05, 01:22 PM	If you were to buy masterwork armor with armor spikes so that you could enchant it later, would you have to pay the armor MW price (150) and the spikes (300)? This seems to be what the rules are saying. You would also have to enchant the two seperately later as well, right? You are 100% correct on both counts. -ToK
nightbanegod 08-27-05, 01:59 PM	psionic tattoos aside... a question on radius of ENTAGLE SPELL .. now with a 4o foot radius... does that mean its got the full circumfrence of 80 feet from one side to another?
NiQil 08-27-05, 02:08 PM	psionic tattoos aside... a question on radius of ENTAGLE SPELL .. now with a 4o foot radius... does that mean its got the full circumfrence of 80 feet from one side to another? To my knowledge, yes. Radius is from the center outward to any given point. Diameter is through the middle to one side from the other. If the radius is 40, then the diameter is 80. So, from wherever the center of an entangle spell is, it would extend out 40 feet in any direction.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-27-05, 02:14 PM	psionic tattoos aside... a question on radius of ENTAGLE SPELL .. now with a 4o foot radius... does that mean its got the full circumfrence of 80 feet from one side to another? ra·di·us (rā'dē-əs) pronunciation n., pl. -di·i (-dē-ī') or -di·us·es. 1. (Abbr. r or rad.) Mathematics. 1. A line segment that joins the center of a circle with any point on its circumference. 2. A line segment that joins the center of a sphere with any point on its surface. 3. A line segment that joins the center of a regular polygon with any of its vertices. 4. The length of any such line segment. 2. A circular area measured by a given radius: every family within a radius of 25 miles of the city center. 3. A bounded range of effective activity or influence: the operating radius of a helicopter. 4. A radial part or structure, such as a mechanically pivoted arm or the spoke of a wheel. 5. Anatomy. 1. A long, prismatic, slightly curved bone, the shorter and thicker of the two forearm bones, located on the lateral side of the ulna. 2. A similar bone in many vertebrates.
nightbanegod 08-27-05, 02:36 PM	ra·di·us (rā'dē-əs) pronunciation n., pl. -di·i (-dē-ī') or -di·us·es. 1. (Abbr. r or rad.) Mathematics. 1. A line segment that joins the center of a circle with any point on its circumference. 2. A line segment that joins the center of a sphere with any point on its surface. 3. A line segment that joins the center of a regular polygon with any of its vertices. 4. The length of any such line segment. 2. A circular area measured by a given radius: every family within a radius of 25 miles of the city center. 3. A bounded range of effective activity or influence: the operating radius of a helicopter. 4. A radial part or structure, such as a mechanically pivoted arm or the spoke of a wheel. 5. Anatomy. 1. A long, prismatic, slightly curved bone, the shorter and thicker of the two forearm bones, located on the lateral side of the ulna. 2. A similar bone in many vertebrates. TEE HEE... i know mathematics ... im just double checking with a dumb question :embarrass ... thanks anyways TELLISH did you copy and paste that from somewhere?
Mind Rogue 08-27-05, 03:01 PM	TEE HEE... i know mathematics ... im just double checking with a dumb question :embarrass ... thanks anyways TELLISH did you copy and paste that from somewhere? Apparently not, because it actually has a circumfrence of about 120 ft, which is the distance around the permeter. The distance across is called the diameter, which is indeed 80 ft. But yes, after the question, I think ToK's response was necessary.
sloisel 08-27-05, 04:33 PM	a circumfrence of about 120 ft [...] diameter, which is indeed 80 ft. That can't be right. Sebastien Loisel
Emrys Donovan 08-27-05, 04:34 PM	Hey guys, Maximus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7086692&postcount=435) has been posted. Please feel free to rip him to shreds before Wednesday. Also, I'm open to any suggestions for expendables.
Gonbow 08-27-05, 04:41 PM	Re: Maximus For starters, stats bought with points are NOT enchancement bonuses (this is VERY important) or bonuses of ANY kind. Secondly, from a rules point of view, Dodge feat > Acrobatic feat Thirdly, you need to state a specialization for Profession.
Emrys Donovan 08-27-05, 04:46 PM	Re: Maximus 1. For starters, stats bought with points are NOT enchancement bonuses (this is VERY important) or bonuses of ANY kind. 2. Secondly, from a rules point of view, Dodge feat > Acrobatic feat 3. Thirdly, you need to state a specialization for Profession. 1. Ok, fixed. 2. I think I'll stick with Acrobatic, but thanks. 3. I'll put tumbling for now, but is there a list to choose from?
Snommelp 08-27-05, 04:50 PM	3. I'll put tumbling for now, but is there a list to choose from? Should be listed in the skill description.
Emrys Donovan 08-27-05, 04:57 PM	Should be listed in the skill description. Nope, it's not, but I was wondering if there were house-ruled proffessions, such as bodyguards and such for this game. Sorry for the confusion.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-27-05, 05:12 PM	Nope, it's not, but I was wondering if there were house-ruled proffessions, such as bodyguards and such for this game. Sorry for the confusion. Gladius Security and Intelligence Service (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=485662) will be looking for some qualified operatives after the weekend, coming into next wednesday. Perhaps you've been thinking about a career in "profession: bounty hunter"? Or perhaps "profession: espionage agent" would be more suitable. Please look over our leaflets and see if any of these skillsets would be something you'd consider training in to assist us with maintaining Gladiosian security? Careers as a deep cover operative League of Assassins/Deep Cover Agents - 1 rank per ECL in Profession: Espionage Agent/Bounty Hunter - 1 rank per ECL in any two of the following {Forgery, Disguise, Bluff, Gather Information} [0.5 ranks/ECL if a skill is cross-class] Careers as a bounty hunter League of Bounty Hunters/Contract Killers - 1 rank per ECL in Profession: Bounty Hunter - 1 rank per ECL in any two of the following {Spot, Listen, Knowledge: Local, Intimidate} [0.5 ranks/ECL if a skill is cross-class] Careers as a rogue/spy League of Rogues/Spies - 1 rank per ECL in Profession: Espionage Agent - 1 rank per ECL in any two of the following {Open Locks, Disable Device, Hide, Move Silent, Search} [0.5 ranks/ECL if a skill is cross-class]
Emrys Donovan 08-27-05, 05:30 PM	Gladius Security and Intelligence Service (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=485662) will be looking for some qualified operatives after the weekend, coming into next wednesday. Perhaps you've been thinking about a career in "profession: bounty hunter"? Or perhaps "profession: espionage agent" would be more suitable. Please look over our leaflets and see if any of these skillsets would be something you'd consider training in to assist us with maintaining Gladiosian security? Careers as a deep cover operative League of Assassins/Deep Cover Agents - 1 rank per ECL in Profession: Espionage Agent/Bounty Hunter - 1 rank per ECL in any two of the following {Forgery, Disguise, Bluff, Gather Information} [0.5 ranks/ECL if a skill is cross-class] Careers as a bounty hunter League of Bounty Hunters/Contract Killers - 1 rank per ECL in Profession: Bounty Hunter - 1 rank per ECL in any two of the following {Spot, Listen, Knowledge: Local, Intimidate} [0.5 ranks/ECL if a skill is cross-class] Careers as a rogue/spy League of Rogues/Spies - 1 rank per ECL in Profession: Espionage Agent - 1 rank per ECL in any two of the following {Open Locks, Disable Device, Hide, Move Silent, Search} [0.5 ranks/ECL if a skill is cross-class] Thanks but no. I'll stick with Tumbling for now.
Mind Rogue 08-27-05, 05:40 PM	That can't be right. Sebastien Loisel You're right, the circumference should actually be a little larger than 240 ft. I was forgetting that PI is actually the ration between the circumference and the diameter, not the radius.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-27-05, 05:43 PM	Ya, i should have bolded the part that he was looking for. I have a calculus diploma, but ya, i did cut/paste it from a site. You're right, the circumference should actually be a little larger than 240 ft. I was forgetting that PI is actually the ration between the circumference and the diameter, not the radius. 251.38, but for D20 sake, we'll consider it to be 250. Not that it will ever come up though. -ToK
Mind Rogue 08-27-05, 05:50 PM	Ya, i should have bolded the part that he was looking for. I have a calculus diploma, but ya, i did cut/paste it from a site. 251.38, but for D20 sake, we'll consider it to be 250. Not that it will ever come up though. -ToK Hey, for the sake of estimation and to do all of the calculations in my head, I used PI to zero decimals rather than approximating it to 3.14159...
nightbanegod 08-27-05, 06:05 PM	Ya, i should have bolded the part that he was looking for. I have a calculus diploma, but ya, i did cut/paste it from a site. 251.38, but for D20 sake, we'll consider it to be 250. Not that it will ever come up though. -ToK way to beat a dead horse... im rather far from dumb considering i too was doing calculus before i even got out of highschool ... i was merely asking a question in regards to the wording of the spell which, from time to time, has been the subject of LARGE debates on these sites. i apologize for passing myself off as ignorant and indeed i know the definitions of diameter, radius, circumfrence, and how to find these values with given information. so, on that note... the fight in question, which, coincidentally the area that entangle encompassed turned out to mean about jack squat, is up for your viewing pleasure Aeryn vs Kronos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7081029&postcount=289)
Tellish_of_Ket 08-27-05, 06:23 PM	way to beat a dead horse... Aeryn vs Kronos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7081029&postcount=289) How could we have pointless debates if we didnt? :P -ToK
Emrys Donovan 08-27-05, 06:47 PM	Is there anything else wrong with Maximus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7086692&postcount=435)? And could someone recommend some expendable items for him?
NiQil 08-27-05, 06:58 PM	Is there anything else wrong with Maximus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7086692&postcount=435)? And could someone recommend some expendable items for him? I'd start with some way to cure yourself, like potions of cure light and/or moderate wounds. I'd also get some powerstones of Vigor to boost your HP. Also, powerstones of biofeedback. Damage reduction is always a good thing. Alos, since you can craft weapons, you might want to consider crafting your kama and/or nunchaku out of deep crystal. Channelling 2 pp through deep crystal weapons will increase the damage on your next hit by 2d6....always a good thing to be able to do. Makes for a lot of one hit kills at lower levels.
Mind Rogue 08-27-05, 07:32 PM	Your flurry of blows with your Kama and your nunchacku are +3/+3 because they are masterwork. Definitely get some healing potions. I cannot tell you how many times I've had to say, well, you're at 0 hp, and you have no way of gaining them, so you lose. Then of course they always want me to run it one more round in case they get a critical hit, which they never do. Having both the kama and the nuchacku seems a bit overkill. You don't need two weapons. I'd probably pick up a couple javelins though, so you can have something to throw at your opponents. A sling or a crossbow would work too, but if your opponent tries levitate or can somehow outrun you, you've automatically lost the fight. You don't need Wild Talent. As a psychic warrior, you already have Pp. You should take Psionic Talent instead. A deepcrystal weapon could be useful, but if you're just going to pump your pp into either Inertial Armor or Force Screen, you're not going to be able to use it. Aside from that, some standard goodies are potions cure light or moderate wounds, potions of pro good/law/evil/chaos, potion of enlarge person, powerstone of biofeedback, tatoo of skate, powerstone of vigor, and so on. Oh, did I mention the healing potions?
nightbanegod 08-27-05, 08:32 PM	How could we have pointless debates if we didnt? :P -ToK TOUCHE' and as far as Mamximus goes... can you have weapon:grapple? as well as for the convenience of the pitlords when they run your character... you might want to put down your listen, spot, and hide, checks in your skills even if there are no ranks.. its just nice.
TelinArtho 08-27-05, 09:39 PM	Vakkor, my latest summoner wants to go on a quest for a magical item that will boost his ability to handle animals (+5 competence bonus, 2500gp, 5 credits I think). He could start either this upcoming week or the week following, any questlords available (King Uther?)?
King Uther 08-27-05, 11:17 PM	You know I'm free. PM me the details of what you want.
TelinArtho 08-27-05, 11:25 PM	[Begin Useless Thread from TelinArtho] As stated - this post will have very little to do with D&D. So, I'm waiting (anxiously I might add) for my remaining two fights to be posted and the tactics from 2 characters for the fight that I've yet to run. I've updated the characters I needed to update, but in the end, I was running out of things to do. So, I tuned into one of my other pasttimes - online poker. I've been playing poker online for almost 2 years now. In my first 15 months, I was winning at a rate of about $1.90 per hour. I was playing mostly for fun, but at the same time, I was hoping one day to make some serious dough at it. In any case, since the first of this year, things have been going really well for me. So tonight, whilst waiting for some things to get finished, I've played a little poker and am currently on one of my best nights ever. So anyway, sorry for the lack of content and especially if it seems that I'm bragging - but I'm having a good night and I like to share that with others... [/End Useless Thread] Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Vathelokai 08-28-05, 03:05 AM	TOUCHE' and as far as Mamximus goes... can you have weapon:grapple? as well as for the convenience of the pitlords when they run your character... you might want to put down your listen, spot, and hide, checks in your skills even if there are no ranks.. its just nice. Check the prison thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=474312). Scroll down to the 'streamlining initiative' section. You have to put your hide spot etc. in now. Grapple is a seperate sort of check then an attack. The 'weapon focus: grapple' only applies to the touch att. to initate grapple. As for Maximus, you might want to invest in some cheap armor with armor spikes. Until you get more monk lvs., the only thing you really loose is the flurry. The armor bonus will make up for the loss of wisdom AC. Expendables: potion of invis 300gp. Make yourself invis, walk up to opponent, engage in grapple. Not too many casters invest in invisibility purge, and you can cover their mouth while pinning them. Also remember, most usefull psionic tatoos are personal range, thus cost 100 gp or more. Go with the powerstones.
NiQil 08-28-05, 03:32 AM	Nope, it's not, but I was wondering if there were house-ruled proffessions, such as bodyguards and such for this game. Sorry for the confusion. There are specific professions listed in the PHB under the Profession Skill. They are not listed in the online SRD. @Cat Are we allowed to make up our own sub-categories for Craft/Perform/Profession checks as far as making extra money in the arena, or should we stick to what is listed in the PHB? I ask because I have seen several characters with made-up sub-categories (as an example, Gonbow's Yasha Tankou has Craft: Torture Devices), and I did not know if that was legal or not, since there *are specific breakdowns for what crafts you can do, how Perform is broken up, and what Professions there are. However, I think that the breakdowns are only listed in the PHB, and not in the SRD.
Vathelokai 08-28-05, 06:43 AM	While going over my char. with a fine tooth comb to avoid prison, I realize I made a irrepairable error. I have set Jodan up so that he can never get the prestige class I wanted him to have. My question is, since you can pay credits to start a character at a higher ECL, could I pay the credits to make an ECL 4 character that is essentially the same as my previous one, and set the old one to permemantly inactive? Bonus Question: Do all credit expenditures have to be placed in the black market? Is that thread only for purchases, or is it for anything 'bought' with credits?
Pittbull 08-28-05, 07:57 AM	@Vathelokai: Of course you can reset your character and let him start at ECL-4, paying four credits. You can also link the fights has made under a point like "previous incarnation". The blackmarket is only for puchases, so please do post there for the new characters, just send a PM to Pitlords, that Jodan should be at ECL-4 and you pay 4° for that.
Caterane 08-28-05, 08:43 AM	@NiQil: The Harvester has Profession: Soul Harvesting. I hope that answers your question ;) @Vath: I couldn't have explained it better than Pittbull :)
Vathelokai 08-28-05, 08:49 AM	Is there a masterwork tool for soul harvesting? :P
Pitlords 08-28-05, 09:14 AM	AARRGH! 4 new characters! NIQIL!!! Number 17-20 of yours! :weep: @Vathe: Yes, the Wall of the False ;)
Vathelokai 08-28-05, 10:07 AM	Like a member of any other class, a monk may be a multiclass character, but multiclass monks face a special restriction. A monk who gains a new class or (if already multiclass) raises another class by a level may never again raise her monk level, though she retains all her monk abilities.Does this apply to prestige classes?
Luni 08-28-05, 10:19 AM	Does this apply to prestige classes? Yes, but some prestige classes such as the Psionic Fist, will allow monks to resume their previous career.
Shaken, not Stunned 08-28-05, 10:27 AM	I can't decipher the meaning of the line up for the week. Am I fighting two people? (Characters of the Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=359951))
nightbanegod 08-28-05, 10:40 AM	@shaken... your in a 3 person FFA so yes you are fighting 2 people ... you get one winners share for each "target" you kill and 1 losers share for each target you dont kill... the order of the 2 people you are fighting that you have to kill them in is dictated by the post ... in this case you need to kill Juntar to receive at least one winners share and then you can kill alac for another winners share...However ... if you kill alac without killing Juntar and then die yourself .. you receive only losers shares for not having defeated your target... your target officially becomes the next person in line after the person who is currently your target is defeated
Vathelokai 08-28-05, 10:40 AM	I can't decipher the meaning of the line up for the week. Am I fighting two people? (Characters of the Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=359951)) What? You a pansy? Can't hack it? :D
nightbanegod 08-28-05, 10:47 AM	[Begin Useless Thread from TelinArtho] As stated - this post will have very little to do with D&D. So, I'm waiting (anxiously I might add) for my remaining two fights to be posted and the tactics from 2 characters for the fight that I've yet to run. I've updated the characters I needed to update, but in the end, I was running out of things to do. So, I tuned into one of my other pasttimes - online poker. I've been playing poker online for almost 2 years now. In my first 15 months, I was winning at a rate of about $1.90 per hour. I was playing mostly for fun, but at the same time, I was hoping one day to make some serious dough at it. In any case, since the first of this year, things have been going really well for me. So tonight, whilst waiting for some things to get finished, I've played a little poker and am currently on one of my best nights ever. So anyway, sorry for the lack of content and especially if it seems that I'm bragging - but I'm having a good night and I like to share that with others... [/End Useless Thread] Back to your regularly scheduled programming. I too play online poker, however, being as poor as i am, i have yet to throw down some money to gamble for real, however anyone who is interested could play me at POGO texas hold em, which to some degree is gambling if you know anything about the pogo site. and to top it all off its free. and on another note, if your having that good of a nite... you could always send some my way ;)
nightbanegod 08-28-05, 10:50 AM	Shaken, not Stunned I can't decipher the meaning of the line up for the week. Am I fighting two people? (Characters of the Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179877&postcount=4)) What? You a pansy? Can't hack it? :D :rofl: Now to toot my own horn, if shan cant handle a simple fight like that ... i would like to point shan this way -------> (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7068562)
Shaken, not Stunned 08-28-05, 11:53 AM	So am I obligated to target one opponent? Are there any unusual rules here that do no exist in a one-on-one match?
nightbanegod 08-28-05, 12:24 PM	So am I obligated to target one opponent? Are there any unusual rules here that do no exist in a one-on-one match? Shaken .... Read this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466621)
Prisonlords 08-28-05, 04:35 PM	Hello everybody. I want to bring everyone's attention to the most recent addition to The Prison of Gladius: Earning Credits: Audits & Violations. This is where you can read all about earning credits associated with The Prison, as well as check to see how many credits you have earned thus far. If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me or find me on AIM or YahooIM. LLPL
Prisonlords 08-28-05, 05:31 PM	It occurs to me that some people have been posting Violations and/or Audits that are not being clearly marked as such. Since the Prison of Gladius thread is for the posting of violations as well as response to the violations, it is important to clearly label any Violations or Audits that you post. I am sure that if you spend a bunch of time doing Audits and tracking Violations you want to be sure you get credit for the wok you have done. So, please be sure to read the information on posting violations and audits. And if I have missed anyone, please send me a message with a link to the post that I missed, but also be sure to edit your post for more visible presentation; not only does this allow me to find your posts, but it lets those who you report on more easily locate the violation. LLPL
Scribelords 08-28-05, 11:13 PM	The Tales of Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7048367) Thread is now ready for avid or casual readers interested in a good story or two (minor polishing aside). Feel free to browse the library shelves and learn about important characters here, laugh at the more humorous tales, or take the challenge and author a story worthy of archive here (which, by the way, can also garner more than average credits). You can also find the Member Picture Gallery and Birthday Roster here. If there are any invalid or incorrect links, please PM me. Thank you and please enjoy!
Pittbull 08-29-05, 05:37 AM	The Tales of Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7048367) Thread is now ready for avid or casual readers interested in a good story or two (minor polishing aside). Feel free to browse the library shelves and learn about important characters here, laugh at the more humorous tales, or take the challenge and author a story worthy of archive here (which, by the way, can also garner more than average credits). You can also find the Member Picture Gallery and Birthday Roster here. If there are any invalid or incorrect links, please PM me. Thank you and please enjoy! WHOW! WHAT A GREAT WORK!! Lots of memories and good stuff for new ideas! I hope thee GM gives you some credits for that work, ;) ! You truly earned this! To all the newbies: Read this, even if it takes some time, it's so cool!!
Vathelokai 08-29-05, 03:38 PM	With the alter self spell, if you change yourself into a creature that gets bonus psionic power points (such as a Blue) do you get the pp? It does not say specificly in the monster entry wether pp are a racial bonus, but it is implied and seems to follow the same rules.
SoulLord 08-29-05, 03:49 PM	With the alter self spell, if you change yourself into a creature that gets bonus psionic power points (such as a Blue) do you get the pp? It does not say specificly in the monster entry wether pp are a racial bonus, but it is implied and seems to follow the same rules. It seems to me that if you use a spell to turn into a blue that you would gain the capability of obtaining psionic points by having a clear mind and resting 8 hours up to the race limit.
Vathelokai 08-29-05, 03:57 PM	After rereading alter self, I find that you would not get it. You only get racial skills and feats, not extraordinary qualities. At least, I think psionic feats and abilitys qualify as extraordinary.
nightbanegod 08-29-05, 04:04 PM	what are all your options for a standard elf to turn into with the alter self spell? Since i know its a rather strict list when compared to polymorph
Pitlords 08-29-05, 04:06 PM	@all: I've updated the Rules of Gladius to the most recent standards. The FAQ: Time has been included in the FAQ: Starting Out. The FAQ: Cohorts and Allies has been splitted to Allies I and Allies II because of post limits. Prices for advancement, elite array, feat and skill changes have been added to the list of creatures in FAQ: Allies II. The recent Elder decision has been added to the FAQ: Skills and Feats. Parts of the NPC Service section has been relocated to other headers. Tomorow, I will begin to write on the FAQ: Guilds. However, there's still a lot that needs to be discussed but at least the Guilds should be running on their own within the next weeks.
Vathelokai 08-29-05, 04:08 PM	what are all your options for a standard elf to turn into with the alter self spell? Since i know its a rather strict list when compared to polymorph The full list of alter self options and their effects is listed in the Arcane Order thread, post 4 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3270757&postcount=4). Any humanoid can turn into any other humanoid, thus the standard elf, could go xeph, troglodyte, forest gnome... whatever.
nightbanegod 08-29-05, 05:29 PM	WAIT A SECOND!!!! we need some clarification before we move any further, now ask yourself, do you know what the SRD is? and i say to you IS IT THIS VERSION? (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35) which most notably does not bring up the "leaving wizards website page when linked to, implying this is wizards of the coast affirmed OR IS IT THIS VERSION? (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html) which most notably has alot more info than said previous version, however, looking over a few reference guids that i have at home, i have come to conclude that information located in this version is also gathered from: Complete warrior, unearthed arcana, and a few others i havnt exactly referenced yet... SO,again i ask you, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE SRD IS?
Altaris13 08-29-05, 06:17 PM	Your first link is the officially accepted SRD for the CoCo.
nightbanegod 08-29-05, 06:23 PM	Your first link is the officially accepted SRD for the CoCo. then why are there characters here posted with wrong info... such as the feats HOLD THE LINE, and FLEET OF FOOT as well as other members referencing the 2nd one to other, new, people that dont know better... official posting?
Cerebus13 08-29-05, 06:40 PM	then why are there characters here posted with wrong info... such as the feats HOLD THE LINE, and FLEET OF FOOT as well as other members referencing the 2nd one to other, new, people that dont know better... official posting?Both of those feats are from the "Divine" section of the SRD. The html versions of the SRD that exist sometimes list some extra open source gaming content which is not included in the CoCo, but the "Divine" section of the SRD is most certainly legal.
Meek Head 08-29-05, 07:53 PM	@ Pitlords: I was wondering if I could change some of Czernobog's unused skills (HA and Ride) into Professions and/or Crafts?
SauroGrenom 08-29-05, 08:04 PM	I've read throught the Rules once now, and I'd like to congratulate Caterane on building a system that works. I think you've set things up nicely, so that participants are able to customize their characters, but you have very well defined limitations on what is allowed. I also must protest. My protest is with regard to the Credit System. First, I would like to say that I can see how the credit system was devised to encourage participants to actively participate in the Core Coliseum. Credits are awarded to those who support CoCo, and those supporters can use them to gain access to options not previously available. In this way the credit system is a wonderfull thing and a valuable part of CoCo. However it seams unfare (fareness is not realy required though it is nice) that a casual participant is unable to gain credits at all, and therefore cannot have custom items or even participate in a guest. I have limited resources (time) to dedicate to CoCo, and I'm unexperienced at running battles (thus doing this will likely take a lot of time to learn). The only other regular activity to earn credits is Auditing, and the post linked from the Rules to the Auditing section of the Prison is empty. So it's unclear how to participate in that, and the amount of available time may again become an issue. I may be able to write stories as I become more familiar with the back story of the setting but not right now. So, I'd like to suggest that the Arena participants make a valuable contribution to CoCo and should be awarded some small fraction of credits for that contribution. The collective we, of participants, give the collective you, of organizers, someone to play with, and I feel that our contribution is valuable. The Elders are far wiser than I and would be better able to determine fare conditions for awarding credits due to Arena participation. I humbly advance this minor protest and suggestion to the consideration of the Elders. Sauro Grenom
Snommelp 08-29-05, 08:15 PM	Sauro: custom items and quests aren't as spectacular as they sound. If you really want the option, though, you can gain credits in a manner that I suppose you didn't notice: posting violations. If you see a mistake, post it in the prison thread. Every ten mistakes posted is one credit.
SauroGrenom 08-29-05, 08:27 PM	Snommelp, I assume that is Auditing. I didn't know it was that simple. I figured you needed to be an accepted Auditor. I would be nice if the Auditing post linked in the Rules post indicated this. Regardless, I still believe that active and ontime participation in the Arena is a worthwile contribution to CoCo, and thus should be rewarded to some minor extent.
nightbanegod 08-29-05, 08:42 PM	any word on thrikreens as characters since they are not listed in the psionics section of the SRD that i know of?
nightbanegod 08-29-05, 08:55 PM	:censored: sorry tellinartho still ... any word on the thrikreen?
TelinArtho 08-29-05, 09:22 PM	@nightbanegod - I don't think there's any need to be so aggressive. As small a community as CoCo is - it might be better to measure one's words a little better. @SauroGrenom - there are plenty of options for gaining credits, and some don't require much effort at all if all you have time for is the occasional post. However, if that's all you have time for, you might not have the time for the more intensive things of CoCo. Quests for instance require much more daily effort than an arena fight. However, if a quest is what you want, you need three credits: 1 picture of yourself for the gallery (2 credits) and your birthdate (1 credit) will get you that. If you want something a little more, doing 1 fight a week would earn you 1 credit per week. My first fight took me a few hours of dedicated work. Lately, I can polish off a 2 player fight fairly quickly, and I only started here about a month ago. Still, in terms of other options: 1. You can audit characters for 1 credit/10 levels audited. This is an intensive study of a character to make sure they are valid. It takes a fair amount of time (an 8th level character I did took 3 hours), but it earns credits very well. 2. You can post violations. These are just single posts about character violations, fairly informal, but can be done very quickly. Just make sure the post is more than just a trivial matter. If someone added a bonus wrong, that's not enough. If someone spent 80 skill points when they should only have 70 - that's a little more serious. This is a bit of a judgement call. However, for time involved, these are probably your best option. Honestly, if you just verify your opponents each week, you'll probably pick up a credit or two every other week. 3. You can post stories about fights. This is good if you like to weave words. If you don't it can be torture. It doesn't require any special knowledge though, just an understanding of the characters and the particulars of a fight. It is a fine option for earning credits and, if you are a writer or want to be, it is very good practice for creativity. 4. There are other ways of earning credits. If you see something which is not done well, PM Cat and see if you can offer to lighten the load and fix something. He's giving extra helper credits when the help merits it. Recently this was for the new maps for the monster fights. Hopefully, that will give you some ideas.
Snommelp 08-29-05, 10:42 PM	@ nightbanegod: unless the rules change, thrikreen are not an option for player races. They're not in the SRD, and it's too much to assume that people in a Core forum will have a non-Core book. @ SauroGrenom: fighting in the arena is its own reward. That's the main reason that people are here. It seems a bit strange to reward people for something that is often a reward of its own. I myself take great pride in my characters' ratings, for example. EDIT: We get credits for posting our pictures now? Wasn't like that when I sent Cat my picture... or was it? It was so long ago, and I've had a long day...
Usurpator 08-30-05, 03:47 AM	@SauroGrenom It is a simple question of supply and demand. There are more people who want their characters to fight in the arena or go on campaigns/quest then there are who want to run battles as Pitlord/Campaignlord etc (for whatever reason). You are an example of that yourself. By offering some incentive (credits) to people who contribute to this community in ways that are less popular, it is possible for others to enjoy it. So if anything is 'unfair', its the fact that you can post two characters and have them fight each week without contributing anything in return. I appreciate the thoughtful way this arena is set up, and especially that the credits don't allow advantages that are in themselves unbalanced. Without the credit system it might be possible that many fights won't be done because there aren't enough Pitlords. Just consider the fact that you can post characters here and have them fight a privilege and focus on what you do get, instead of what you don't.
KerlanRayne 08-30-05, 05:26 AM	I think you can also earn credits by creating some good maps and posting them in the maps thread. KerlanRayne
TheMagister 08-30-05, 09:52 AM	I've been repeatedly told by different Pitlords that the Demoralize Opponent usage of the Intimidate skill is unusable by my character on the CoCo. Since this isn't a "DM Option" sidebar thing in the DMG, but is a valid use of the Intimidate skill listed on pg. 75 in the PHB, under the skill listing, I'm wondering if they just don't understand the usage of the skill, of if I'm just unaware of some blanket decision that's already been made. If this has been a Council of Elders decision, that's fine. I just haven't seen it anywhere. Thanks for any information. TM
Pittbull 08-30-05, 10:17 AM	You're talking about his? INTIMIDATE (CHA) Check: You can change another’s behavior with a successful check. Your Intimidate check is opposed by the target’s modified level check (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear). If you beat your target’s check result, you may treat the target as friendly, but only for the purpose of actions taken while it remains intimidated. (That is, the target retains its normal attitude, but will chat, advise, offer limited help, or advocate on your behalf while intimidated. See the Diplomacy skill, above, for additional details.) The effect lasts as long as the target remains in your presence, and for 1d6×10 minutes afterward. After this time, the target’s default attitude toward you shifts to unfriendly (or, if normally unfriendly, to hostile). If you fail the check by 5 or more, the target provides you with incorrect or useless information, or otherwise frustrates your efforts. Demoralize Opponent: You can also use Intimidate to weaken an opponent’s resolve in combat. To do so, make an Intimidate check opposed by the target’s modified level check (see above). If you win, the target becomes shaken for 1 round. A shaken character takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. You can intimidate only an opponent that you threaten in melee combat and that can see you. Is see no reason why it shouldn't be usable in the Arena! But don't forget it's a standart-action.
Caterane 08-30-05, 10:30 AM	@ Pitlords: I was wondering if I could change some of Czernobog's unused skills (HA and Ride) into Professions and/or Crafts? Ok. Link this post to the new skills. PS: Pitlords is me ;)
TelinArtho 08-30-05, 10:38 AM	TheMagister - I've told you twice that you can't use it, and now, I might be admitting that I am wrong. Under your original character sheet, I remember that you had it listed as a variant rule. I hadn't looked at the Intimidate skill description with regard to it, but I see it now. The only thing I am not sure about is using intimidate on other "pcs." In any case, I apologize for possibly being wrong about this. It is however a standard action that you take when you are in melee. If you want to use this in a fight, make sure that you specifically spell out when to do it (when you first enter melee, after you make your first attack or something similar).
Caterane 08-30-05, 10:43 AM	@Sauro: Pitlords are the ones who keep this board running, as well as all those who contribute by doing things that earn credits. They invest their time and effort to provide a fun board for others, including you. The rewards - although nice and fun - are not game-breaking. A second function of credits is to limit certain items/actions. For example, you can change the alignment of a creature with 'always <alignment>' (demons, devils, angels, etc) by paying 5°. Without that, everyone could just play good demons and evil angels just as easily as their normal counterparts. Without credits, we would see a flood of custom items and creatures. Finally, there are so many ways to earn credits by now. Running fights is only one of it, and a lvl 3 fight should be done pretty quickly. Besides, there's no better way to learn the rules than to pitlord. If you don't have time to earn credits, then you don't have time to go on a Quest or Campaign either, or go on a miniquest to get a custom animal companion. @Telin: You gain only a credit on your birthday, not for submitting the date. It's a birthday present! I'll probably decrease the levels you need to audit for a credit to 2 or 3. The 10 levels came from the old coco where you had only 1-2 fights a level. Now it's much more work. @Nightbanegod: Thri-kreen are not in the SRD. Sorry. @Magister: Intimidate can be used in the Arena although the effect is minor only. I'm still trying to find good uses for such skills as Intimidate, Survival, etc. These are frequently used on Campaigns.
TheMagister 08-30-05, 10:43 AM	You're talking about his? INTIMIDATE (CHA) Check: You can change another’s behavior with a successful check. Your Intimidate check is opposed by the target’s modified level check (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear). If you beat your target’s check result, you may treat the target as friendly, but only for the purpose of actions taken while it remains intimidated. (That is, the target retains its normal attitude, but will chat, advise, offer limited help, or advocate on your behalf while intimidated. See the Diplomacy skill, above, for additional details.) The effect lasts as long as the target remains in your presence, and for 1d6×10 minutes afterward. After this time, the target’s default attitude toward you shifts to unfriendly (or, if normally unfriendly, to hostile). If you fail the check by 5 or more, the target provides you with incorrect or useless information, or otherwise frustrates your efforts. Demoralize Opponent: You can also use Intimidate to weaken an opponent’s resolve in combat. To do so, make an Intimidate check opposed by the target’s modified level check (see above). If you win, the target becomes shaken for 1 round. A shaken character takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. You can intimidate only an opponent that you threaten in melee combat and that can see you. Is see no reason why it shouldn't be usable in the Arena! But don't forget it's a standart-action. I always forget about the standard action part of it, thanks for reminding me how useless it would be to do this instead of attacking normally. As a matter-of-fact, I can't think of ANY situation in which this would be useful for a fighter. I suppose you could "gang-scare" a single target if you have friends with you, since fear effects are cumulative, bringing him to the "panicked" condition in one round. A fighter could demoralize a target with his intimidate skill just before a wizard hits him with a phantasmal killer spell, I guess. With enough people, you could lower a target's saves enough to make him fail save-or-die effects. Still useless in the Arena, though, because it only lasts for one round. Edit: Thanks for responding, Cat. No worries TelinArtho...we're all here to learn. I know enough to know that I don't know enough. =) TM
michael_noah 08-30-05, 10:47 AM	@Telin: You gain only a credit on your birthday, not for submitting the date. It's a birthday present! I didn't know this! It was my birthday last wednesday!
Huan 08-30-05, 10:53 AM	I didn't know this! It was my birthday last wednesday! Well then, happy belated birthday to you (and to all whom I have missed so far). :)
Caterane 08-30-05, 10:59 AM	Well, then Happy Birthday Michael! +1° :D
NiQil 08-30-05, 11:09 AM	I always forget about the standard action part of it, thanks for reminding me how useless it would be to do this instead of attacking normally. As a matter-of-fact, I can't think of ANY situation in which this would be useful for a fighter. I suppose you could "gang-scare" a single target if you have friends with you, since fear effects are cumulative, bringing him to the "panicked" condition in one round. A fighter could demoralize a target with his intimidate skill just before a wizard hits him with a phantasmal killer spell, I guess. With enough people, you could lower a target's saves enough to make him fail save-or-die effects. Still useless in the Arena, though, because it only lasts for one round. Edit: Thanks for responding, Cat. No worries TelinArtho...we're all here to learn. I know enough to know that I don't know enough. =) TM Personally, the only time I have *ever seen this aspect of Intimidate used was in a campaign that saw our party's scythe-wielding barbarian get challenged to 1-on-1 honor combat with the local paladin....something about acusing the paladin of familiar relations with his "special mount." Barbarian used it in round 1 of combat to stand there and shout taunts at the paladin and make fun of him shortly before taking the scythe and using it to count the paladin's ribs.....by prying his throat open and cutting them out.
TheMagister 08-30-05, 11:19 AM	Personally, the only time I have *ever seen this aspect of Intimidate used was in a campaign that saw our party's scythe-wielding barbarian get challenged to 1-on-1 honor combat with the local paladin....something about acusing the paladin of familiar relations with his "special mount." Barbarian used it in round 1 of combat to stand there and shout taunts at the paladin and make fun of him shortly before taking the scythe and using it to count the paladin's ribs.....by prying his throat open and cutting them out. A good story, but not really possible (I LIKE this way of using it, mind you...). You have to be in melee with your target to use it. TM
NiQil 08-30-05, 11:23 AM	A good story, but not really possible (I LIKE this way of using it, mind you...). You have to be in melee with your target to use it. TM He was....the paladin won initiative....and had taken the first swing. Our barbarian was *really cocky. But he did have almost double the HP of the barbarian at the time, due to a massive Con score...so he took a round to taunt the paladin and make him look bad in front of the priests of the church he was from.
Altaris13 08-30-05, 12:22 PM	I didn't know this! It was my birthday last wednesday! Scary... It was mine too, though I'd already told Cat. What year, if you don't mind my asking? EDIT: @Telin: You gain only a credit on your birthday, not for submitting the date. It's a birthday present! Oh... So did I get my birthday credit?
michael_noah 08-30-05, 12:45 PM	i think a couple of people perhaps have that birthday... I was born in 1981.
Altaris13 08-30-05, 01:57 PM	Cool. I'm a couple years older, but hey. :D
NiQil 08-30-05, 02:54 PM	If anyone gets a chance, I would appreciate if someone could take a look at the new characters I have under construction (the latter four listed in my sig) and see if they see any errors.
Altaris13 08-30-05, 03:01 PM	A level One Cleric in the CoCo gets 3-0 level spells, and 1+1 spell. Do they get to cast two first level spells? 1 for their normal plus their Domain spell? Or do cleric & specialilst wizards factor in their bonus spell (per level) into their spell levels/fight? Is that question unclear? EDIT: Also, if you cast Inflict, can you also make an armed attack with the touch attack all in the same round? Like using a spiked gauntlet? If so, then it becomes a normal melee attack, right?
NiQil 08-30-05, 03:07 PM	A level One Cleric in the CoCo gets 3-0 level spells, and 1+1 spell. Do they get to cast two first level spells? 1 for their normal plus their Domain spell? Or do cleric & specialilst wizards factor in their bonus spell (per level) into their spell levels/fight? Is that question unclear? As far as I know, the domain/specialty spell levels are still added into your overall spell-level total and then divided by 3 and rounded up. The only difference is that in your spells memorized, you still need to designate which spell is being taken from your domain spell list/specialty. That's how I do it with the cleric I am running now. Edit in response to your edit: I would think not, because I don't think a touch spell can be cast on a weapon, and when striking with a gauntlet, it is considered a weapon. So it would be either or. If you are using just your fist, though, then yes, you should get unarmed damage + the spell damage. This is why a cleric buffing a monk is highly deadly...clerics have *lots of touch spells...buff the monk with touch spells, then send him out to do unarmed damage with them.
NiQil 08-30-05, 03:09 PM	With regard to casters of any kind.... If a caster has an intelligence score below 8, are they still able to cast spells? Int 8 is generally considered to be the threshold to be able to speak in complete thoughts and sentences (although I would have to look at the SRD to see if this is RAW). So if a sorcerer had an intelligence of 5, would they even be able to cast any spells with verbal components?
Gonbow 08-30-05, 03:13 PM	A level One Cleric in the CoCo gets 3-0 level spells, and 1+1 spell. Do they get to cast two first level spells? 1 for their normal plus their Domain spell? Or do cleric & specialilst wizards factor in their bonus spell (per level) into their spell levels/fight? Is that question unclear? EDIT: Also, if you cast Inflict, can you also make an armed attack with the touch attack all in the same round? Like using a spiked gauntlet? If so, then it becomes a normal melee attack, right? In a campaign/quest they would get 3 0 level 1 1st level and 1 1st-level domain. In the arena/miniquests, they wold get 3 0 level and 1 1st level, which can be their domain spell. (I.E: They factor in bonus/domain spells, then divide, as NiQil said.) Inflict/various touch spells: I do not believe you can use them with a spiked gauntlet, but I am not sure. You CAN use them with pure unarmed strikes. (Thus, a monk/priest can hit you for 1d6 +str +inflict damage) And yes, it is no longer a touch attack at that point.
SoulLord 08-30-05, 03:25 PM	With regard to casters of any kind.... If a caster has an intelligence score below 8, are they still able to cast spells? Int 8 is generally considered to be the threshold to be able to speak in complete thoughts and sentences (although I would have to look at the SRD to see if this is RAW). So if a sorcerer had an intelligence of 5, would they even be able to cast any spells with verbal components? you need an ability score equal to 10+ level of the spell you want to cast in your ability related to the spellcasting class wis clerics, cha sorcerers, int wiz. 0 10 1 11 2 12 3 13 etc.
TelinArtho 08-30-05, 03:36 PM	With regard to casters of any kind.... If a caster has an intelligence score below 8, are they still able to cast spells? Int 8 is generally considered to be the threshold to be able to speak in complete thoughts and sentences (although I would have to look at the SRD to see if this is RAW). So if a sorcerer had an intelligence of 5, would they even be able to cast any spells with verbal components? I've never heard of anything regarding Int 8 or below making it so you can't speak sentences. Regardless, only the requisite caster ability is needed (Int, Wis or Cha) equal to 10+SL. I think I would need to see a quote from the SRD supporting your argument.
Gonbow 08-30-05, 03:48 PM	The cut-off for speech is INT 3. If said sorcerer had INT 2, they would be unable to speak and thus, cast spells without the Natural Spell feat (arguable as to wether this would work or not). An INT 5 sorcerer has no problem casting spells as long as they have enough CHA, as has been stated.
NiQil 08-30-05, 03:51 PM	I've never heard of anything regarding Int 8 or below making it so you can't speak sentences. Regardless, only the requisite caster ability is needed (Int, Wis or Cha) equal to 10+SL. I think I would need to see a quote from the SRD supporting your argument. Not an argument...a question. I know that you need the req casting ability, but if you are unable to form complete sentences due to a low Int ability, how can you speak the verbal components? Maybe this is just me thinking in real world terms as opposed to game mechanics. Hence the reason I asked. Along the same vein, if you have an Int penalty, does this remove the ability to speak languages automatically known due to race, such as common? Since your languages known are affected by a bonus, would a penalty take away racially known languages, or do those always stay regardless of your Int?
TelinArtho 08-30-05, 03:58 PM	Well, I guess my only logical response is that spells won't likely have "complete sentences" as verbal components - they might be single words or even a phrase of unintelligible vowel sounds or something similar. In terms of game mechanics, one's intelligence doesn't matter when casting spells as a sorcerer or a cleric. The only time it actually makes a difference is when the intelligence dips to 0 (comatose). I don't even see anything that says you can't cast spells if your intelligence drops below 3.
NiQil 08-30-05, 04:01 PM	Well, I guess my only logical response is that spells won't likely have "complete sentences" as verbal components - they might be single words or even a phrase of unintelligible vowel sounds or something similar. In terms of game mechanics, one's intelligence doesn't matter when casting spells as a sorcerer or a cleric. The only time it actually makes a difference is when the intelligence dips to 0 (comatose). I don't even see anything that says you can't cast spells if your intelligence drops below 3. That is kind of the way I was leaning as well...that it was a word hear and a word there, but I wanted other's opinions. And my second question sort of ties to the first. If your Int penalty can remove the number of languages you know at the start (which is what I am trying to find out), then, if you can't speak any languages, how can you use verbal component spells? Again, this may just be my brain trying to wrap real world ideas around game mechanics...just looking for other points of view.
TelinArtho 08-30-05, 04:08 PM	From the SRD on Speak Language: You start at 1st level knowing one or two languages (based on your race), plus an additional number of languages equal to your starting Intelligence bonus So if you are a half-orc, you start with Orcish and Common. Then if you have a bonus - you can add other - but the starting two are not removed. As to if you don't know a language can you still cast spells - again, I think this is a case the spells are not tied to language, so as long as a character could speak (whether or not he had a language) he could cast spells.
michael_noah 08-30-05, 04:11 PM	it's always dangerous to try to use "real world logic" to figure things out in DnD. If it helps at all, there is nothing about verbal components that says they are intelligible, part of a language, or even interpretable in any meaningful way other than that they trigger a spell. For example, Druids can cast spells by growling with natural spell, and (albeit from non-core sources) bards can disguise them in song, and others can merely twist them so they are hard to recognize. The are just sounds - nothing else. Also, intelligence penalties never take away your starting languages, unless, perhaps your int is below 3.
Altaris13 08-30-05, 04:12 PM	In a campaign/quest they would get 3 0 level 1 1st level and 1 1st-level domain. In the arena/miniquests, they wold get 3 0 level and 1 1st level, which can be their domain spell. (I.E: They factor in bonus/domain spells, then divide, as NiQil said.) Inflict/various touch spells: I do not believe you can use them with a spiked gauntlet, but I am not sure. You CAN use them with pure unarmed strikes. (Thus, a monk/priest can hit you for 1d6 +str +inflict damage) And yes, it is no longer a touch attack at that point. OK, but don't you round up on the 1/3, per the FAQ? Also, can you still make the unarmed strike/inflict in the same round?
NiQil 08-30-05, 04:14 PM	it's always dangerous to try to use "real world logic" to figure things out in DnD. If it helps at all, there is nothing about verbal components that says they are intelligible, part of a language, or even interpretable in any meaningful way other than that they trigger a spell. For example, Druids can cast spells by growling with natural spell, and (albeit from non-core sources) bards can disguise them in song, and others can merely twist them so they are hard to recognize. The are just sounds - nothing else. Also, intelligence penalties never take away your starting languages, unless, perhaps your int is below 3. I agree about the real world logic LOL....hence the reason I asked for other feedback...for some reason I just can't seem to wrap my head around game mechanics today LOL
NiQil 08-30-05, 04:17 PM	OK, but don't you round up on the 1/3, per the FAQ? Also, can you still make the unarmed strike/inflict in the same round? Yes, you round up. So, as an example, a cleric with 3+1 firsts and 2+1 seconds would have 10 total spell levels, of which you would be able to use 4 levels in the arena, since 10/3=3 with 1 leftover, so round up to 4. As for your charge question, here's what the SRD has to say about it (emphasis mine): Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge. Hence the reason clerics buffing monks are so dangerous....a monk rolling around with a flurry with both fists charged with chill touch or something...not a pretty picture, especially once the monk's damage starts increasing for his unarmed strikes.
Altaris13 08-30-05, 04:39 PM	Yes, but can you cast & make an unarmed attack in the same round? I see nothing that says you can't. By the way, you keep quoting the cleric buffing monk, and yes, that is what I'm making.
Pitlords 08-30-05, 04:41 PM	@all: I've written up a big part of the rules for Guilds. Please follow this link to the Council of Gladius and help me to flesh out the rules for Guilds. Thanks
NiQil 08-30-05, 04:45 PM	Yes, but can you cast & make an unarmed attack in the same round? I see nothing that says you can't. By the way, you keep quoting the cleric buffing monk, and yes, that is what I'm making. You cannot cast *and make an unarmed attack in the same round, as they are both standard actions. To use the hold a charge technique, you would need to cast in one round and hold the charge, and then attack unarmed the following round. You can cast and make the appropriate touch/ranged touch attack that normall goes with the spell you are casting, but in order to get the extra damage from the unarmed strike along with the spell damage, you would need 2 rounds.
Altaris13 08-30-05, 06:02 PM	Introducing Zamier (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7113409&postcount=443). Please review for errors.
sloisel 08-30-05, 06:41 PM	Meet Mrs. Buttmunch. Y'all be on your best behavior. And you, stop picking your nose. I'm not quite done with the gear.
sloisel 08-30-05, 06:48 PM	Introducing Zamier (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7113409&postcount=443). Please review for errors. I see you've picked up on the "I multiclass so I can use all scrolls, have good saves and plenty of feats" signature coco style. :) Go tiger! Sebastien Loisel
Snommelp 08-30-05, 07:34 PM	Before I potentially edit my characters needlessly: NiQil stated in the Prison thread that all gladiators need to list Hide and Move Silently scores, even if the character has no ranks. I was unaware of this, and (if it is true) do not understand why a character like Grik, whose tactics usually involve rushing blindly into combat, would need to list skills that will never be used. Spot and Listen I understand. Hide and Move Silently, je ne comprends pas.
NiQil 08-30-05, 07:36 PM	Before I potentially edit my characters needlessly: NiQil stated in the Prison thread that all gladiators need to list Hide and Move Silently scores, even if the character has no ranks. I was unaware of this, and (if it is true) do not understand why a character like Grik, whose tactics usually involve rushing blindly into combat, would need to list skills that will never be used. Spot and Listen I understand. Hide and Move Silently, je ne comprends pas. Take a look at the Streamlining Initiative section of the Prison Thread...that is where it is outlined.
Luni 08-30-05, 08:02 PM	Take a look at the Streamlining Initiative section of the Prison Thread...that is where it is outlined. You'll also notice that it says Under Construction. While the idea in there are good, the people who don't follow them aren't breaking any rules.
NiQil 08-30-05, 08:41 PM	Nor have I posted any violations for not having it. But I have mentioned it on a few violations that were posted for other reasons, since it *is coming. Hence the reason I answered the question about the Hide/Move Silently/Listen/Spot question in the same fashion. No, it's not a violation, but yes, it is going to be required.
Snommelp 08-30-05, 08:55 PM	Thanks for the responses, both of you. Now for a demi-rant: It seems to me a bit strange that in the future Move Silently and Hide will be required on all sheets, even those of characters who have no intention of doing either. If my character never (I repeat: never) uses these skills, it's pointless to list them on his sheet. They are literally taking up space and making the sheet longer than it needs to be. I thought the point of the Streamlining Initiative was to make sheets more streamlined; more compact and functional. This instance would be counter to that goal.
nightbanegod 08-30-05, 09:04 PM	i would have to agree with snommelp when i consider my character *the first horseman* who is not built for subtleness by ANY means... i dare you to make a move silently check in full plate with a tower shield and have any hope of beating their listen check ... I DARE YA barring extream equipment geared twards making that check!!!
NiQil 08-30-05, 09:27 PM	Thanks for the responses, both of you. Now for a demi-rant: It seems to me a bit strange that in the future Move Silently and Hide will be required on all sheets, even those of characters who have no intention of doing either. If my character never (I repeat: never) uses these skills, it's pointless to list them on his sheet. They are literally taking up space and making the sheet longer than it needs to be. I thought the point of the Streamlining Initiative was to make sheets more streamlined; more compact and functional. This instance would be counter to that goal. I am guessing, but I believe the idea is uniformity. You are correct in that not every character utilizes all or any of those skills. But since most characters utilize at least some of them, the idea is to put them all on the character sheet so that it is there for the pitlord if they ever *do need them. For instance, using your character as an example....even though it may never *intentionally hide from an opponent, it is still entitled to a hide check if it is near cover against an opposed spot check. Even though it may not be geared towards that, and never have a lofty modifier for hide, it is still entitled to the check. The other player is also entitled to the spot check, and the hide check would need to be done as the counter to determine how close they think they are. So, while your character may never intentionally use it, it may still come in to play, so the pitlords may still need the modifier. That is why I believe it is going to be put on all sheets...to make less work for the pitlords in those odd times that the character who doesn't normally hide is entitled to a hide check.
Gonbow 08-30-05, 09:42 PM	Re: Hide, Move Silently In addition to the reasons NiQil laid out, Move Silently modifiers are also important, because the level of horrid checkness is important because from the very first round, your opponent can theorhetically pin-point your location (if you roll horribly and they have a stellar roll; the penalty for distance will /normally/ keep this from happen.)
Snommelp 08-30-05, 09:47 PM	I am guessing, but I believe the idea is uniformity. You are correct in that not every character utilizes all or any of those skills. But since most characters utilize at least some of them, the idea is to put them all on the character sheet so that it is there for the pitlord if they ever *do need them. For instance, using your character as an example....even though it may never *intentionally hide from an opponent, it is still entitled to a hide check if it is near cover against an opposed spot check. Even though it may not be geared towards that, and never have a lofty modifier for hide, it is still entitled to the check. The other player is also entitled to the spot check, and the hide check would need to be done as the counter to determine how close they think they are. So, while your character may never intentionally use it, it may still come in to play, so the pitlords may still need the modifier. That is why I believe it is going to be put on all sheets...to make less work for the pitlords in those odd times that the character who doesn't normally hide is entitled to a hide check. Forgive me, but I don't see how a character can unintentionally hide. If the character is fully covered, there is no line of sight. If the character has no cover, he can't hide. If the character is partially covered, he can choose to hide, but if he chooses not to hide, there is no hide check to make because he is not hiding. He is in plain sight, or at least what part of him is not covered is in plain sight. Let us use my Grik as an example. Let us suppose that he is in a three person free-for-all match, and somehow manages despite his low mental scores to move next to a rock to avoid flanking. One of his opponents (let's say Cid) is on the opposite side of the rock. He can't see Grik, so there's no check. The other opponent (The Harvester) is on the same side of the rock as Grik, and also has no check because Grik is in plain view. Now Cid moves, so that half of Grik is showing behind the rock. If Grik were hiding, he would concievably be up against the rock, trying to avoid detection. A check would be needed. However, Grik is not trying to hide. Grik is in fact dancing all around his five foot square, trying to avoid the projectiles being launched by the Harvester. I'd say Grik would stand out like a rose in a cement prison. He should not get a hide check, nor would I expect (or want) him to get a hide check.
Snommelp 08-30-05, 09:51 PM	Re: Hide, Move Silently In addition to the reasons NiQil laid out, Move Silently modifiers are also important, because the level of horrid checkness is important because from the very first round, your opponent can theorhetically pin-point your location (if you roll horribly and they have a stellar roll; the penalty for distance will /normally/ keep this from happen.) But if the character isn't moving, you can't make a Move Silently roll. Also, in reading the skill, it seems that moving silently is a choice a character makes when he is moving. If a character doesn't want to move silently, the only modifier to the listen check would be distance. I'd use the chart under Listen as a guideline. A charging, screaming orc in armor would probably be the same DC as a battle.
NiQil 08-30-05, 09:59 PM	But if the character isn't moving, you can't make a Move Silently roll. Also, in reading the skill, it seems that moving silently is a choice a character makes when he is moving. If a character doesn't want to move silently, the only modifier to the listen check would be distance. I'd use the chart under Listen as a guideline. A charging, screaming orc in armor would probably be the same DC as a battle. To the best of my knowledge, listen and spot always require an opposed check when you are against an opponent. Check: Your Listen check is either made against a DC that reflects how quiet the noise is that you might hear, or it is opposed by your target’s Move Silently check. Check: The Spot skill is used primarily to detect characters or creatures who are hiding. Typically, your Spot check is opposed by the Hide check of the creature trying not to be seen. Sometimes a creature isn’t intentionally hiding but is still difficult to see, so a successful Spot check is necessary to notice it. So whenever your opponent is trying to listen or spot, there is always an opposed check. Regardless of whether or not you are trying to hide/move silently, in certain situations an opposed check is required for an opponent to listen/spot. So for these opposed checks to be easier, the skills should be there so the pitlords don't have to figure out what the check is; they will have it right in front of them on all sheets.
Mind Rogue 08-30-05, 10:08 PM	i would have to agree with snommelp when i consider my character *the first horseman* who is not built for subtleness by ANY means... i dare you to make a move silently check in full plate with a tower shield and have any hope of beating their listen check ... I DARE YA barring extream equipment geared twards making that check!!! +1 Dex -5 MW Full Plate -9 MW Tower Shield = -13 mod. Opponent (Fighter, Wizard, Sorcerer, etc): +1 Wis - 16 Distance = -15 mod. You can still win this quite easily.
Snommelp 08-30-05, 10:11 PM	Please note that in the example you yourself quoted for Listen checks, the SRD said "or." The Listen check is made against either a DC based on how difficult the sound is to hear or an opposed roll. Also, in your quoted section about creatures who are not hiding but are hard to see, the SRD does not mention an opposed roll. It mentions an opposed roll in the sentence prior, but not in that context. It does call for a successful Spot roll, but not a Hide roll. Further, the Hide skill makes no mention of unintentionally hiding. Just as an aside, please note that I plan on fighting this to the bitter end. If this rule stands, note that I will make things difficult by having my characters be as noisy and noticeable as possible, perhaps even adding bells to their clothing. My pitlords will hate me, because they will have to add impromptu penalties to my Move Silently check, or they will prove me right by simply ignoring the rolls.
NiQil 08-30-05, 10:15 PM	Please note that in the example you yourself quoted for Listen checks, the SRD said "or." The Listen check is made against either a DC based on how difficult the sound is to hear or an opposed roll. Also, in your quoted section about creatures who are not hiding but are hard to see, the SRD does not mention an opposed roll. It mentions an opposed roll in the sentence prior, but not in that context. It does call for a successful Spot roll, but not a Hide roll. Further, the Hide skill makes no mention of unintentionally hiding. Just as an aside, please note that I plan on fighting this to the bitter end. If this rule stands, note that I will make things difficult by having my characters be as noisy and noticeable as possible, perhaps even adding bells to their clothing. My pitlords will hate me, because they will have to add impromptu penalties to my Move Silently check, or they will prove me right by simply ignoring the rolls. Whether they make the checks or not would not change the requirement to have the checks on your sheet. They may very well ignore the check, but if that is how the rules say the character sheet should be formatted, then ignoring the checks or intentionally giving your character penalties to the checks won't change the need to have the checks on your sheet to avoid violations being issued. So I guess to win that battle, you are going to have to take it up with LL and Cat.
Snommelp 08-30-05, 10:19 PM	Whether they make the checks or not would not change the requirement to have the checks on your sheet. They may very well ignore the check, but if that is how the rules say the character sheet should be formatted, then ignoring the checks or intentionally giving your character penalties to the checks won't change the need to have the checks on your sheet to avoid violations being issued. So I guess to win that battle, you are going to have to take it up with LL and Cat. Oh, that'll happen, too. Standard formula: write to your congressman before protesting, write to the GM before protesting, etc. But I'm interested in how you will respond to the first part of that post. I haven't been part of a good debate in a while!
NiQil 08-30-05, 10:29 PM	Oh, that'll happen, too. Standard formula: write to your congressman before protesting, write to the GM before protesting, etc. But I'm interested in how you will respond to the first part of that post. I haven't been part of a good debate in a while! Oh I don't dispute that opposed checks are not always required...but for arena purposes, they are used more often than not. Since in the arena, you are "against an opponent" to use the phrase from the SRD, opposed checks are needed. Hence the reason to have them right there for the pitlords to see. Even if that opposed check always results in your opponent basing you right away because you are in the middle of the arena singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer weiner" and jumping up and down like a blithering idiot, because of the distance modifiers, there is *still a chance that the opponent rolls lower than you and can't tell where you are.
TelinArtho 08-30-05, 11:10 PM	I'll propose a simple solution. If you ever - and I mean ever - want to hide or move silently, include it in your sheet. If not, you are automatically spotted/pinpointed. In other words, if you are invisible - you are automatically detected unless it is on your sheet.
Snommelp 08-30-05, 11:28 PM	Oh I don't dispute that opposed checks are not always required...but for arena purposes, they are used more often than not. Since in the arena, you are "against an opponent" to use the phrase from the SRD, opposed checks are needed. Hence the reason to have them right there for the pitlords to see. Even if that opposed check always results in your opponent basing you right away because you are in the middle of the arena singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer weiner" and jumping up and down like a blithering idiot, because of the distance modifiers, there is *still a chance that the opponent rolls lower than you and can't tell where you are. But my point is that if a character are acting in such a manner as you are describing, that character is not Moving Silently. He is quite obviously moving loudly. To make a Move Silently roll seems rather ridiculous, since the character appears to be trying to get the attention of his opponent. Common sense doesn't always factor into DnD, but sometimes it does. You don't make a Move Silently roll if you aren't trying to move silently. Hence the name. Another argument: you appear to be trying to turn Move Silently and Hide into passive skills (skills which you use automatically). Apart from those two skills (and speak language, which operates on different rules), can you name for me any other skills i the PHB which are passive skills? The closest I can think of is Survival, but even with that skill you have to choose to make the rolls. If I choose for my character not to make a hide roll, why should he be forced to attempt to hide? Finally, I don't see how your countering argument disputes the fact that not all Listen and Spot rolls are opposed. Your previously quoted SRD sections mention "against an opponent" in conjecture with "opposed rolls," true, but it does not mention that opposed rolls are mandatory. Example:Typically, your Spot check is opposed by the Hide check of the creature trying not to be seen. Sometimes a creature isn’t intentionally hiding but is still difficult to see, so a successful Spot check is necessary to notice it. "Opposed roll" is used together with "trying not to be seen." As in, your opponent makes an opposed roll because he doesn't want you to find him. When it reaches "a creature isn't intentionally hiding but is still difficult to see," there is no more mention of opposed rolls. Post-script: I believe I said that distance would still apply to Listen checks. There is no contention there. @TelinArtho: Only one of my characters has a potion of invisibility, and he only has one. If I were to use it, I could easily add into my tactics what will be modified for this special instance.
TelinArtho 08-30-05, 11:36 PM	Perhaps I should just quote the Rules of Gladius. Under Hide vs Spot: Note that hiding is not an action; if a character has cover, he will automatically try to hide. and under Move Silently vs Listen: Moving Silently is not an action; a character will automatically try to move silently If you want your character to never do so - just specify it in your tactics. Otherwise, include the 2 lines in your skills. It doesn't take much effort on your part (and it saves the pitlord the effort to figure it out on the spot - and ultimately, I'm more for saving the pitlord time and a possibility of making mistakes). /d
Snommelp 08-30-05, 11:46 PM	I see I'm fighting a losing battle here. Let it be shown on the record that, in this instance, I disagree with the Rules of Gladius as written. My challenge still stands: find me any other skill (apart from Speak Language, which operates under a different set of rules from every other skill) that is passive, as you claim Hide and Move Silently to be. If you cannot do so, I will stand resolutely by my decision that the Rules of Gladius are wrong. Find me one other skill which I cannot dispute, and I will back down.
Iced 08-30-05, 11:50 PM	Can you pre-buff a poison on a weapon?
Emrys Donovan 08-30-05, 11:55 PM	Sorry for the lack of activity lately, guys. I've had a lot of RL stuff the past few days, mostly since I just started school. I should be able to get on most days. If I don't get on, its either school related or I'm with my girlfriend (would happen mostly on weekends). Also, Cat, please don't pair Maximus this week...I'll edit his sheet saying he's not ready, and I'll also pm you with this message. Thanks.
Maraxus 08-31-05, 12:02 AM	Oh man, what did I do??? I joined the campain "The Grand Heists", looked good, but now I see the party: 1. Cleric 2. Archer (Ranger/PsyWarrior) 3. Archer (Ranger/Fighter) 4. Archer (Ranger/Rogue) I think we are not very balanced! If we get one opponent, that has protection from ranged or piecring attacks, we are dead meat. :( ...On the other hand... If we really catch an opponent flat-footed, he will definitly die in our hail of arrows. And if an opponent survives the first round? ... Our cleric should be high-valued. :)
Gonbow 08-31-05, 12:09 AM	Can you pre-buff a poison on a weapon? Only if you have immunity to the poison you are buffing with, or the poison use ability (assassins, black-guards, a few monsters here and there).
Gonbow 08-31-05, 12:11 AM	I see I'm fighting a losing battle here. Let it be shown on the record that, in this instance, I disagree with the Rules of Gladius as written. My challenge still stands: find me any other skill (apart from Speak Language, which operates under a different set of rules from every other skill) that is passive, as you claim Hide and Move Silently to be. If you cannot do so, I will stand resolutely by my decision that the Rules of Gladius are wrong. Find me one other skill which I cannot dispute, and I will back down. Why should we have to? It's stated in the SRD and PHB that they are passive. You've even had the SRD qouted at you. If you don't want to use the skills to your advantage; that's your choice, no one will force you to do so. But they are part of the D&D rule system. EDIT: But since you asked; Spot, Listen, Sense motive, Balance, Concentration and Knowledge, for starters, have completely passive applications.
Snommelp 08-31-05, 12:16 AM	Why should we have to? It's stated in the SRD and PHB that they are passive. You've even had the SRD qouted at you. If you don't want to use the skills to your advantage; that's your choice, no one will force you to do so. But they are part of the D&D rule system. Yes, I've had the SRD quoted at me, but I still fail to see how the quotes say what you claim they say. If you could prove that, that would also be beneficial. Right now, the countering arguments have been unsatisfactory.
Tellish_of_Ket 08-31-05, 12:24 AM	Oh man, what did I do??? I joined the campain "The Grand Heists", looked good, but now I see the party: 1. Cleric 2. Archer (Ranger/PsyWarrior) 3. Archer (Ranger/Fighter) 4. Archer (Ranger/Rogue) I think we are not very balanced! If we get one opponent, that has protection from ranged or piecring attacks, we are dead meat. :( ...On the other hand... If we really catch an opponent flat-footed, he will definitly die in our hail of arrows. And if an opponent survives the first round? ... Our cleric should be high-valued. :) Your cleric is a Chaotic Evil megalomaniac, with delusions of grandeur talking to his skeletal allies like they were his best friends. I'm not sure how he fits in with a bunch of lawful and neutral characters, but we'll see. HAHHA Be prepared...Pure Evil has previously burned a village of farmers and innocent by-standers slaying their families as well. He has no compunction to slay anything and everything in his path. -ToK
Snommelp 08-31-05, 12:48 AM	EDIT: But since you asked; Spot, Listen, Sense motive, Balance, Concentration and Knowledge, for starters, have completely passive applications. Spot: reactive or active, not passive Listen: reactive or active, not passive Sense Motive: listed under Action: ...generally takes at least 1 minute. Therefore, active Balance: listed under Being Attacked while Balancing: You are considered flat-footed while balancing, since you can't move to avoid a blow. This suggests that you need to concentrate on balancing; therefore, active Concentration: it is stated under Action that Concentration is either reactive or active Knowledge: granted And since you seem to prefer your arguments on the grounds that you are quoting the SRD at me, here's something for you. Please turn to page 78 of your PHB or the Skills section of your SRD. Look under LISTEN: In the case of people trying to be quiet, the DCs given on the table could be replaced by Move Silently checks (emphasis mine, of course). My quote says that opposed rolls are optional. I still don't see how your quote says they aren't. Sorry, I said I would back down, didn't I? Of course, Knowledge is different in that it is trained only, and you do have to roll each time you think you know something...
NiQil 08-31-05, 01:07 AM	Spot: reactive or active, not passive Listen: reactive or active, not passive Sense Motive: listed under Action: ...generally takes at least 1 minute. Therefore, active Balance: listed under Being Attacked while Balancing: You are considered flat-footed while balancing, since you can't move to avoid a blow. This suggests that you need to concentrate on balancing; therefore, active Concentration: it is stated under Action that Concentration is either reactive or active Knowledge: granted And since you seem to prefer your arguments on the grounds that you are quoting the SRD at me, here's something for you. Please turn to page 78 of your PHB or the Skills section of your SRD. Look under LISTEN: In the case of people trying to be quiet, the DCs given on the table could be replaced by Move Silently checks (emphasis mine, of course). My quote says that opposed rolls are optional. I still don't see how your quote says they aren't. Sorry, I said I would back down, didn't I? Of course, Knowledge is different in that it is trained only, and you do have to roll each time you think you know something... Spellcraft is also trained only...but it works passively in that it allows checks anytime a spell is cast. You need not be concentrating on the spell to make a check to try and figure out what spell was cast. But this is all beside the point. The point, is that while characters may never ever want to move silently or hide, because some do...in fact I would say most, but that's me.....to be uniform it must be listed on all sheets. Not only that, but because of the penalties due to range related to listen and spot (mainly listen), even if no check is rolled to see whether you were moving silently (to account for the fact that you weren't), there is *still a chance a listen check will fail due to range. So the modifier still needs to be there so the pitlord has a basis to work with. If they take your modifier, give you massive penalties for wearing your bells and clucking like a chicken, the penalties on the listen check could still cause your opponent to fail. Because each skill is based off of an ability, each character has an inherent ability to do certain things based on their physical capabilities. If you are more dexterous than others, you will naturally move more quietly than others to start with (which is accounted for with your base modifier). Now if you go out and try and make yourself be heard, it is still not going to take away your inherent natural aptitude. It may counteract it (and thus, turn your modifier into a penalty), but it won't take it away. And no matter how much you try and be heard, if your opponent is far away, the sound may not carry, hence the need for a check. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with how the checks work, the modifiers still need to be on the sheet.
Snommelp 08-31-05, 01:15 AM	I have already agreed with the distance penalty, that is not a point of contention. We don't need to bring it up again. Your point is that there needs to be a DC for the Listen checks; my point is that DCs are already given, and that opposed Move Silently rolls aren't required. All I ask is that you address this issue, rather than attempting to beat me into submission by repeating the same arguments over and over again. Is that too much to ask? I'll even address one of your new issues, and then you can rebut: you claim that you can't take away your inherent natural aptitude. I've seen incredibly dextrous people do the most clumsy things... on purpose. You can most certainly take away your inherent natural aptitude. You simply try to be clumsy, or to be heard, or to be seen. EDIT: and, because I'm feeling strangely argumentative today, Spellcraft is reactive, not passive. Reactive means that you react to another stimulus, i.e. making a Listen check when someone moves. Passive is when something is done automatically without a stimulus, i.e. the beating of your heart. By attempting to make Hide passive, you are saying that a character will subconsciously press against a wall to avoid detection. By making Move Silently passive, you are saying that a character will subconsciously tip-toe across the field of battle. I'm not buying it.
Sindorin 08-31-05, 01:23 AM	Amidst the endless dance of debate, I come back at this desperate hour... to dance in blood once more in the dank, darkness of the deepest realms of hell, to the highest cloud of Celestia... To once again hear the marshall's call sound throughout our great city... I have returned...
Snommelp 08-31-05, 01:26 AM	Heh... welcome back, Sin. Do you feel like joining the debate, too? I haven't had such a spirited debate over such a trivial matter in a long time!
Sindorin 08-31-05, 01:31 AM	If the enemy does something and there is an opposed check, then you get said check reactively, though the DM may make the roll to prevent you from metagaming that you just failed or succeeded on a check. If said check is not displayed and you believe you should at least get the check here, I imagine it is up to the pitlord to justify whether or not judgement be dealt. I don't know if this helps or not as I'm not sure what exactly the debate is debating...
NiQil 08-31-05, 01:38 AM	I have already agreed with the distance penalty, that is not a point of contention. We don't need to bring it up again. Your point is that there needs to be a DC for the Listen checks; my point is that DCs are already given, and that opposed Move Silently rolls aren't required. All I ask is that you address this issue, rather than attempting to beat me into submission by repeating the same arguments over and over again. Is that too much to ask? I'll even address one of your new issues, and then you can rebut: you claim that you can't take away your inherent natural aptitude. I've seen incredibly dextrous people do the most clumsy things... on purpose. You can most certainly take away your inherent natural aptitude. You simply try to be clumsy, or to be heard, or to be seen. EDIT: and, because I'm feeling strangely argumentative today, Spellcraft is reactive, not passive. Reactive means that you react to another stimulus, i.e. making a Listen check when someone moves. Passive is when something is done automatically without a stimulus, i.e. the beating of your heart. By attempting to make Hide passive, you are saying that a character will subconsciously press against a wall to avoid detection. By making Move Silently passive, you are saying that a character will subconsciously tip-toe across the field of battle. I'm not buying it. Actually, you can't take away inherent natural aptitude, short of changing yourself. As you just stated, you can TRY to be clumsy, or to be heard, or to be seen. It doesn't take away the natural aptitude, it merely attempts to counteract it. As to your point, you are forgetting one thing. Based on how the checks are written, it is left entirely in the DM's hands as to whether the DC lists for certain situations are used, or whether the DM requires an opposed roll. Either could be correct. But ultimately, based on the way the skills are written, it is left to the DM to decide. And, while I can't speak for Cat, I personally think that since there are allowances already stated within the skills for opposing rolls when you are facing an opponent, that those make more sense then using a preset list of DC's. Just my opinion. But, in this case, since the writers wrote the skills with the option to do either, it becomes a DM call, and rule 0 trumps all. Of course, that's just my opinion.
Snommelp 08-31-05, 01:40 AM	@ Sin: Oh, sorry. Forgot that we've typed so much since this began... the debate is this: it seems that soon it will be required that character sheets show Hide and Move Silently skills. I objected on the grounds that at least one of my characters never plans to Hide or Move Silently. Apparently, however, the Rules of Gladius say that Hide and Move Silently are passive skills, or in other words that you always Hide or Move Silently regardless of whether you intend to do so. That has led to this rather spirited debate. I am on the opposed side, whereas NiQil and Gonbow are arguing on the behalf of the Rules of Gladius. @ NiQil: you posted while I was responding to Sin. Give me a second, I'll try to come up with a stellar response.
Sindorin 08-31-05, 01:46 AM	hmm... well, I don't see why anyone shouldn't always display hide/move silently. You are right though, I was under the impression that you had to say "I am hiding" rather than automatically be considered hidden. Silly rules.
Snommelp 08-31-05, 01:47 AM	@ NiQil: Alright, I think I've got a good response. *Ahem* Yes, allowances are made for opposing rolls. However, as I have pointed out (with a quote), there are specific instances in which those allowances are made, e.g. when the opponent is trying to be quiet. There is no need to use Rule 0, since there is a specific circumstance with which to work. Also, you must explain to me how it makes more sense to create a Move Silently modifier for a bard using Perform: Shout Singing while running in armor covered in bells than simply equating that to the sound of a battle and using the DC listed on the pre-made chart. It seems to me that your way leaves more work for the Pitlord, which I thought we were trying to avoid. It's getting late here, and I'm afraid I have class tomorrow. Feel free to continue your side of the debate if you wish; I'll try to pick up when I can.
Gonbow 08-31-05, 01:58 AM	The difference between reactive and passive is... insignificant. By that definition, move silently and hide is reactive the way I've been running it; I.E: It activates in response to you moving/being in an area where you might not be seen. <shrugs> Anyways, I've made a new character! Slightly more versatile than my last two, as I've /finally/ made a caster. I present; Tatyana (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7118092&postcount=446)!
Pitlords 08-31-05, 02:02 AM	"RHOOOAAARR!!" one of the mysterious leaders of the Pitlords finally shows himself to the people of Gladius "MY EVOLUTION IS COMPLETE!" was all he roared, and even the deaf inhabitants heard him!
NiQil 08-31-05, 02:05 AM	"RHOOOAAARR!!" one of the mysterious leaders of the Pitlords finally shows himself to the people of Gladius "MY EVOLUTION IS COMPLETE!" was all he roared, and even the deaf inhabitants heard him! :uh-huh: Showoff LOL :pbbbtt:
Tellish_of_Ket 08-31-05, 02:06 AM	"RHOOOAAARR!!" one of the mysterious leaders of the Pitlords finally shows himself to the people of Gladius "MY EVOLUTION IS COMPLETE!" was all he roared, and even the deaf inhabitants heard him! uh...what? -ToK LOL
Pitlords 08-31-05, 02:13 AM	Also see Prisonlords and Scribelords. Although Guildlords is still not ready. And the new Elder titles neither. But we're making progress!
Tellish_of_Ket 08-31-05, 03:19 AM	Oh man, what did I do??? I joined the campain "The Grand Heists", looked good, but now I see the party: 1. Cleric 2. Archer (Ranger/PsyWarrior) 3. Archer (Ranger/Fighter) 4. Archer (Ranger/Rogue) I think we are not very balanced! If we get one opponent, that has protection from ranged or piecring attacks, we are dead meat. :( ...On the other hand... If we really catch an opponent flat-footed, he will definitly die in our hail of arrows. And if an opponent survives the first round? ... Our cleric should be high-valued. :) Know what else? I distincly recall reading that the quest called for "skill monkeys" and such. We are going on a robbing spree, breaking into places, searching and stuff, when NO ONE in the party can open locks, disable traps, or do anything roguish? Oh boy, this will be a short campaign. LOL. Encounter 1: Dm: ok. you guys manage to hack your way into the casino, because no one can climb the wall, and no one has any climbing gear. Once inside the casino, you see a metal-bound iron door. It looks VERY solid, but has a weak lock. Pure Evil: Hm...none of us can pick it, so i gues we take some corpses and use them as battering rams. Oh yeah, one guy has good use-rope, so we'll tie a few together and maybe with all the skull bashing we'll get a +2 circ bonus to break the door? Dm: riiiiiight! Ok, so you bash at the door for abou 30 minutes, it's a little dented, but nothing more. You've gone through all the bodies....now what? Pure Evil: Go out, into the market square and get more people. Dm: ok, so you gather another dozen corpses. By now you are all chaotic evil in alignment. And before you can begin the bashing anew, the militia surrounds the building. Pure Evil: Really? Cool. More bodies. Ok guys, so after killing the militia, can we still bash the vault door? Dm: More bashing, still nothing...but getting closer. The entire kingdom's army is now at your doorstep...SURRENDER OR DIE!! ...and the heroes (villians) go down in a blaze of glory. LOL LOL -ToK
sloisel 08-31-05, 03:58 AM	I think I need a ruling. We learned from the FAQ that if you are wearing padded +2 and bracers of armor +4, your AC is 4 because the enhancement +2 of the padded applied to the padded, giving it a total armor bonus of (1+2)=3, which is less than 4. We also know from the mage armor spell that mage armor provides you with an "invisible but tangible" armor of force. Magic vestments must be cast on an armor or shield. Can you cast it on mage armor? Can you cast it on the shield spell? The unavoidable follow-up is whether you can use oil of magic vestment on mage armor or the force effect provided by bracers of armor. Sebastien Loisel
Vathelokai 08-31-05, 06:52 AM	i would have to agree with snommelp when i consider my character *the first horseman* who is not built for subtleness by ANY means... i dare you to make a move silently check in full plate with a tower shield and have any hope of beating their listen check ... I DARE YA barring extream equipment geared twards making that check!!! Something I noticed while Pitlording is that characters with high listen checks can sometimes use Listen to target where an opponent is while hiding. For example, SneakyArcherX runs behind a pillar and gains full cover. He cannot see HulkingFigherBot at all, but when HFB makes his move silent at -15, it gives SAX a good chance to know where he is moving to, and SAX can sneak around and find a good sniper spot. As for Hide, it is something you do automaticly. It is, by default, part of the move action. That's the rational behind having it on all sheets. And there is always the chance you could get a lucky roll. As for the passive/reactive thing, since you have to react (according to the rules of Gladius), it makes sense that you would have to have your modifiers listed. Why not just put... Spot +4 Listen +8 Move silent [always choose to fail] Hide [always choose to fail] in the skill section? I understand that it's principle, but that would save the effort of putting it in your tactics every week.
Altaris13 08-31-05, 09:04 AM	@Gonbow: Tatyana looks pretty good. I'm curious why you chose the Psicrystal & armor though, over a deepcrystal weapon and another feat.
Altaris13 08-31-05, 09:06 AM	I see you've picked up on the "I multiclass so I can use all scrolls, have good saves and plenty of feats" signature coco style. :) Go tiger! Sebastien Loisel :D Yeah, I figured it was time to fit in. :rolleyes:
Tellish_of_Ket 08-31-05, 10:15 AM	I think I need a ruling. We learned from the FAQ that if you are wearing padded +2 and bracers of armor +4, your AC is 4 because the enhancement +2 of the padded applied to the padded, giving it a total armor bonus of (1+2)=3, which is less than 4. We also know from the mage armor spell that mage armor provides you with an "invisible but tangible" armor of force. Magic vestments must be cast on an armor or shield. Can you cast it on mage armor? Can you cast it on the shield spell? The unavoidable follow-up is whether you can use oil of magic vestment on mage armor or the force effect provided by bracers of armor. Sebastien Loisel No ambiguity. This is an ages old debate which has been stamped down many times. NO NO and NO. You cannot cast magic vestments on mage armor. It is not armor. It's a miniature wall of force. You cannot not enchant a wall of force regardless of it's "tangibility". Same goes with the force effect of bracers. -ToK
Gonbow 08-31-05, 10:39 AM	@Gonbow: Tatyana looks pretty good. I'm curious why you chose the Psicrystal & armor though, over a deepcrystal weapon and another feat. The Psicrystal is for Psicrystal Containment, so I can get more use out of Greater Psionic Shot. It also helps deal with sneaky characters a little (ignores magical silence, another reactive listen/spot checks and 2 active listen/spot checks). Also, I like the boosted will save, it's like Iron Will + misc benefits. Given Tatyana's very low (for now) BAB, I thought crafting armor would be more useful than crafting weapons; plus as soon as I get some more free money, she can craft a diminutive set of mithril chain for her Psicrystal! I'll be cooler than everyone ;) Later on, I'll probably pick up craft (weapon), probably once my BAB is getting half-way decent with levels of Slayer.
Snommelp 08-31-05, 10:44 AM	The difference between reactive and passive is... insignificant. By that definition, move silently and hide is reactive the way I've been running it; I.E: It activates in response to you moving/being in an area where you might not be seen. <shrugs> I'm awake again, and ready to contine the debate... at least, until I must leave for French. *Ahem* But my entire point is that Hide and Move Silently are neither passive nor reactive, but active. A character chooses to hide. Perhaps you would better understand my argument with a quick scenario. In accordance with Murphy's Law, it will be a Worst Case scenario. Let us suppose that Grik the Orc barbarian is facing a halflinf barbarian named Tom. Tom is operating under default tactics "force melee, but don't charge since I need AC." Grik's tactics have some contingencies, but basically boil down to "force melee." The fight is under way, and both characters are searching for each other. Grik hears Tom (bad MS roll) and moves in that direction, ending his turn partially covered by a rock, 35 feet from Tom. Because of an unfortunate set of rolls, Tom is oblivious to Grik and moves 30 feet... the exact wrong way. Grik is now 65 feet from Tom. He can't charge, because there's a rock in the way. Believing Tom may have a readied action, Grik moves 55 feet, leaving ten between himself and Tom. Tom rages, closes the gap, swings his greataxe, and just barely puts Grik into negatives. Since Grik has no allies, he loses. Now I complain to the pitlord, because Grik never intended to hide. The pitlord decides to humor me and ignore the Rules of Gladius to see what would have happened. Grik still hears Tom (Listen DC 5 based on table, light armor but moving more than half speed and not trying to be quiet). Grik still ends his turn beside the rock. Since he is not trying to hide, though, Tom automatically sees Grik. Tom moves 30 feet towards Grik and readies to attack when Grik is in range. A contingency in Grik's tactics activates. Grik drops his axe, draws his longspear, steps 5 feet to the side (no more cover, but still 5 feet from Tom), rages, and strikes, putting the halfling six feet under. In this instance, this rule is life-or-death. I for one would not want my character to lose his battle just because he was forced to Hide when he had no intention of hiding. @ Vathelokai: it's not about putting the skills on the sheet any more. It's about characters having to move in zig-zag paths all across the map in an effort to avoid cover so they won't accidentally Hide.
TelinArtho 08-31-05, 11:04 AM	Arguing for the principle - why bother? Anyway, I think I can get across a point which is not an issue because the move silently/hide checks are automatic. It prevents a pitlord from having to make a judgement call. Picture these scenarios (in each case, the player in question is not specific about wanting to move silently/not wanting to move silently): 1. A fighter is walking at normal speed, unarmored. In the listen skill, it lists the DC as ... oh wait - its not specifically covered. 2. A fighter is walking at half speed, in full plate. In the listen skill, it lists the DC as ... oh wait - its not specifically covered. 3. A 1st-level rogue is using move silently to move past someone. He rolls really well (say has a modified roll of 25), but the pitlord looks in the listen skill and sees that a rogue would make the DC15. The purpose of the rule in the Rules of Gladius is to remove the guesswork. If LOS has been removed, the character gets a hide check [unless it is specifically stated otherwise in the character's tactics]. If LOS does not exist, the character automatically tries to move silently [unless it is specifically stated otherwise in the character's tactics]. While you look at it as a personal affront to have to include 2 lines on a character sheet, I, as a pitlord, see it as a removal of guesswork regarding this, often sketchy, area of the rules.
TelinArtho 08-31-05, 11:09 AM	And to further the point, under Move Silently: Action:None. A Move Silently check is included in your movement or other activity, so it is part of another action. and under Hide: Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action. However, hiding immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action. I think your argument was that they are active skills (in that you act to use them). However, the above shows that most of the time - they aren't.
Snommelp 08-31-05, 11:18 AM	Telin, it's not about those two lines on the character sheet any more. I just said that. As for "taking out the guess work," let me provide you with two example from the old CoCo, when I used to pitlord regularly. Example one: Character A (a mage) wanted to cast his spells as loudly as possible to lure character B towards him. Character B wanted to engage A in melee. Using the table under LISTEN, and based on the DCs of people talking and people whispering, I assigned an ad hoc DC of -5 to the Listen check. Nobody complained. Example two: In the old CoCo, I was actually reprimanded for making Spot checks too often. Character A had partial cover, but didn't intend to Hide. I made character B make a Spot check, and got told off for it. And as for your quotes: the same line can be found in Climb. "Climbing is part of movement." Does that mean my characters will automatically try to climb over every obstacle they hit? It's also in Tumble. Does that mean my characters will Tumble every time they move? Uh-oh! Tumble's Trained Only! But since Tumbling's part of a move, my characters have to Tumble, so I have to put ranks into the skill! The text doesn't say that the checks must be part of your move action, only that if you choose to use them, they will be in that instance. EDIT: your third example, the rogue Moving Silently: that is covered in the Listen Skill, in a section I have already quoted. "In the case of people trying to be quiet, the DCs given could be replaced my Move Silently checks." Replace "could" with "should" and it's all good.
Altaris13 08-31-05, 11:28 AM	@Gonbow: gotcha. Planning ahead. :D I really like PsiCrystal Containtment, but you have to have the feats to make it worth it. And generally, IMO, PsiCrystal Affinity is only worth taking if you get PsiCrystal Containtment. Personally, I think Psions should've got Psicrystal for free (like they did before & like Wizards/Sorc's get Summon Familiar.) That, and I feel Wizards should be able to choose a Bonus Feat at 1st instead of just Summon Scroll. But hey...
TelinArtho 08-31-05, 11:36 AM	Example one: Character A (a mage) wanted to cast his spells as loudly as possible to lure character B towards him. Character B wanted to engage A in melee. Using the table under LISTEN, and based on the DCs of people talking and people whispering, I assigned an ad hoc DC of -5 to the Listen check. Nobody complained. Example two: In the old CoCo, I was actually reprimanded for making Spot checks too often. Character A had partial cover, but didn't intend to Hide. I made character B make a Spot check, and got told off for it. Actually, these two examples are perfect for the reasoning of why it is a rule in Gladius now. Under situation A, the character specifically wants to be found (as in it is listed in their tactics). As I said before, if that's what they want, go ahead and just let the other player pin point him. In your scenario before you made an Ad-hoc decision for it - under the current rule, you wouldn't have to. In other words, it takes out the guesswork. In the second case, it is even better. Because the player moved to partial cover and didn't specifically say he was trying to hide, he would have. If he gave you trouble for it, it is plain as day in the rules that his character would have tried to hide, unless it is stated otherwise in his tactics. The move here is to get away from "intent" (judgement calls) and get to clearly articulated tactics that leave out the judgement. In my opinion, you just proved that the rule set is in a good place, not the other way around.
Snommelp 08-31-05, 11:49 AM	In the second case, it is even better. Because the player moved to partial cover and didn't specifically say he was trying to hide, he would have. If he gave you trouble for it, it is plain as day in the rules that his character would have tried to hide, unless it is stated otherwise in his tactics. The move here is to get away from "intent" (judgement calls) and get to clearly articulated tactics that leave out the judgement. In my opinion, you just proved that the rule set is in a good place, not the other way around.Please note: in the second situation, it was actually other pitlords who reprimanded me. Both players were fine with it. You and I seem to have different goals. You want fights run without judgement calls. I would not trust my character to a pitlord who is unwilling to use logic and make judgement calls based on sound reasoning. Also, it seems that with the rules at hand, I would have to make more work for the pitlord, which we are trying to avoid. If my character doesn't want to Hide, I have to tell my pitlord that my character will always avoid cover. This means the pitlord has to carefully consider whether each move puts the character into cover or not, a daunting task when your point of reference refuses to stand still. EDIT: I must go to class now. Take your time to chew on this, and I'll be back in roughly three and a half hours.
NiQil 08-31-05, 11:52 AM	Please note: in the second situation, it was actually other pitlords who reprimanded me. Both players were fine with it. You and I seem to have different goals. You want fights run without judgement calls. I would not trust my character to a pitlord who is unwilling to use logic and make judgement calls based on sound reasoning. Also, it seems that with the rules at hand, I would have to make more work for the pitlord, which we are trying to avoid. If my character doesn't want to Hide, I have to tell my pitlord that my character will always avoid cover. This means the pitlord has to carefully consider whether each move puts the character into cover or not, a daunting task when your point of reference refuses to stand still. EDIT: I must go to class now. Take your time to chew on this, and I'll be back in roughly three and a half hours. But the difference is, is that there are far fewer people who will specify in their tactics to never hide than there are who won't. So while pitlords who get characters such as Grik who never wants to hide might have to do some additional work in that specific instance, on the whole, it will make or less work for them.
TelinArtho 08-31-05, 12:02 PM	You and I seem to have different goals. You want fights run without judgement calls. I would not trust my character to a pitlord who is unwilling to use logic and make judgement calls based on sound reasoning. I would rephrase it as follows: I want fights with as few as possible judgement calls. For the judgement calls that might come into play, they should be based on sound reasoning. As to making more work for the pitlord, I disagree. If the player's tactics are, specifically, never hide, never try to move silently, the pitlord won't have to avoid pieces of cover - because the player has said to not take it into account. If LOS is established, the character is seen - no matter the distance or form of cover. The rule that you are disputing however is to benefit the masses. As NiQil has stated, it is much more common that a player wants to have hide/move silently opposed by spot/listen respectively than not. Grik is an exeption perhaps, but there are few who would specifically want to be detected as early as possible.
NiQil 08-31-05, 12:46 PM	Question for someone why may know....oddly enough, there is not an entry for this in the SRD, and my PHB is at home. In the weapons section, there are entries for both throwing axes and hand axes. Since there are entries for both, are you allowed to use throwing axes in melee, or must you use hand axes? As I said, with the exception of the exotic ones (orc double-axe and the dwarven waraxe), the SRD seems to have omitted item descriptions for all axes listed as weapons (throwing, handaxe and battleaxe).
Luni 08-31-05, 01:00 PM	Question for someone why may know....oddly enough, there is not an entry for this in the SRD, and my PHB is at home. In the weapons section, there are entries for both throwing axes and hand axes. Since there are entries for both, are you allowed to use throwing axes in melee, or must you use hand axes? As I said, with the exception of the exotic ones (orc double-axe and the dwarven waraxe), the SRD seems to have omitted item descriptions for all axes listed as weapons (throwing, handaxe and battleaxe). My Players Handbook says gnome fighters like to use Throwing Axes for both ranged and melee attacks.
TheMagister 08-31-05, 01:05 PM	I would like to introduce a bill in the Council of Elders for discussion (and possible implementation) of the usage of the Craft: Trapmaking skill in the CoCo arena. I would propose that those with the skill could craft traps which they could then distribute during a contest and then lure opponents into/onto them. Examples could include (but are not limited to): Bear traps Traps involving alchemical compounds (the ol' bucket-over-the-door trick) Tripwires Net traps etc. Basically, any simple trap that could be assembled as a full-round action (or longer, perhaps). Caveats to this bill would possibly include the limitation on using traps with a CR of no higher than 1/2 (round down) of your character level (or ECL, if that fits better). Opponents should be allowed a spot check opposed by the crafter's Profession: trap setter check. Opinions? TM
Gonbow 08-31-05, 01:08 PM	I would like to introduce a bill in the Council of Elders for discussion (and possible implementation) of the usage of the Craft: Trapmaking skill in the CoCo arena. I would propose that those with the skill could craft traps which they could then distribute during a contest and then lure opponents into/onto them. Examples could include (but are not limited to): Bear traps Traps involving alchemical compounds (the ol' bucket-over-the-door trick) Tripwires Net traps etc. Basically, any simple trap that could be assembled as a full-round action (or longer, perhaps). Caveats to this bill would possibly include the limitation on using traps with a CR of no higher than 1/2 (round down) of your character level (or ECL, if that fits better). Opponents should be allowed a spot check opposed by the crafter's Profession: trap setter check. Opinions? TM Well, this has been raised before and was shut down under the header of 'no prebuffs that alter the nature/enviroment of the arena itself'. I.E: If we let trapmakers do this, we are opening it up to let wizards surround the starting positions in walls of stone, etc, etc.
sloisel 08-31-05, 01:13 PM	Hey, this is just to let you know. I was playing with excel, trying to figure out what the % off purchases meant at higher levels. I applied it to my newest character, who will eventually be a slayer (with both bluff and sense motive as class skills). To max my % off, I took (ECL+3)/2+5. The /2 is because of cross-class (appraise) and the +5 is +2 int, +2 Ma tool and some other +1 to account for some growth at the higher levels (maybe another +1 from int, or some other reason.) Since appraise is cross-class, I only spend "half-time" in bluff and sense motive (so an amortized cost of 2 skill points per level is all I pay.) The next assumption is that I would use this on one purchase per week, of the value of the most recent winnings, assuming a victory. The idea being that on a loss you don't buy big ticket items anyhoot, so just use those weeks for your craft skill. Incidentally, I also have on the same table what you get every week for a craft skill, and what you make from an arena victory in a week. Just for comparison's sake. http://www.math.mcgill.ca/loisel/appraise.gif I don't usually use smileys, but I feel compelled to use this one right now: :OMG! A rogue would have a bit less than 2x as much. You won't buy a big ticket item (=1 week's winnings) every week, but now and again you'll buy an extra big one, so it evens out. Needless to say, I'm planning to use this! Anyway, just thought I'd share this with all y'all. Sébastien Loisel
Altaris13 08-31-05, 01:32 PM	Will someone please explain how to attach an image? What the hell goes between the img blocks? I've tried to cut & paste the image, I've tried www. links, I've tried the full http: links and THAT at least got me the big red X image. GR.
NiQil 08-31-05, 01:37 PM	Will someone please explain how to attach an image? What the hell goes between the img blocks? I've tried to cut & paste the image, I've tried www. links, I've tried the full http: links and THAT at least got me the big red X image. GR. In order to put an image in a post, it must be hosted on a website somewhere, so that when you put the code into your post, the code will access the site hosting the picture. The easiest way to do this is to sign up for a free account at www.photobucket.com. You can upload pictures into your own photo album, and then with each picture's display, there are different lines that you can use to post the pictures in various places. The one you will need for here is the bottom of the three show lines...it has [IMG] at the beginning and [~/IMG] at the end (without the extra ~)....just copy that line and paste it into your post.
Scribelords 08-31-05, 01:48 PM	News regarding the Tales of Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7048367) Thread. The Table of Contents is now done in such a manner that is easier to browse (and perhaps easier on the eyes). We have a new pic and Birthday from Nightbanegod! (check it out) Please continue to enjoy the Tales of Gladius and try to add to it.
TheMagister 08-31-05, 01:50 PM	Well, this has been raised before and was shut down under the header of 'no prebuffs that alter the nature/enviroment of the arena itself'. I.E: If we let trapmakers do this, we are opening it up to let wizards surround the starting positions in walls of stone, etc, etc. Nah, you're missing the meat of what I proposed. The crafter would have to set up/assemble the traps AFTER the starting buzzer. Of course, he'd have the TRAPS precrafted, but he'd have to "set them up" as a full-round action each before they'd be useful. In no way would I condone one character being able to manipulate the battlefield beforehand. It wouldn't be fair. TM
NiQil 08-31-05, 02:12 PM	Nah, you're missing the meat of what I proposed. The crafter would have to set up/assemble the traps AFTER the starting buzzer. Of course, he'd have the TRAPS precrafted, but he'd have to "set them up" as a full-round action each before they'd be useful. In no way would I condone one character being able to manipulate the battlefield beforehand. It wouldn't be fair. TM The only immediate problem I see with that is that I believe it takes longer than a full round action to set them up. I have not looked, so I could be wrong, but I know that it does take 2d4 rounds to reset a mechanical trap that has been tripped/disabled already...so I can't imagine it taking *less time to set up the trap the very first time than it would to reset a trap that is already set up.
Altaris13 08-31-05, 02:19 PM	Great! Thanks NiQil!
Sindorin 08-31-05, 02:52 PM	Hmm... why are all of the CoCo Custom Avatars so... ugly? Yes, long ago people were able to manipulate the arena as a prebuff. At one point someone drowned at the start of a fight because a Decanter of Endless Water had been open for quite some time. It is amusing to look back and reminisce at how ridiculous a place this once was...
sloisel 08-31-05, 02:52 PM	Hey, two questions: 1) If you get a % off to purchase items, can you apply it to upgrade items too? 2) If you pay credits to buy a nonstandard item (like a cloak of charisma +1), do you need to pay more credits to upgrade it to +3?
Laughing_Dragon 08-31-05, 02:59 PM	A quick question regarding Item upgrades (Like upgrading a MC weapon to +1, or a +1 weapon/armor to +2): How does one go about that. I assume you don't mearly state that you suddenly have it, unless you just buy the item. Second I heard that psionic tattoo's in some cases cost double I'd like to know if a psionic tattoo of Force Screen with a ML of 1 would cost 50 gp or 100 gp.
TelinArtho 08-31-05, 03:04 PM	@sloisel, not sure about your first question (I assume yes). For your second question, I am almost certain the answer is yes. @laughing dragon - if you pay for the upgrade, just mark the change on your sheet; if you craft the change, its a little different. Here's some examples: Full plate that you bought and then had it enchanted: Full Plate +1 [2650gp] Full plate that you crafted and then had it enchanted: Full Plate +1 [750gpC + 1000gp for enchantment] Full plate that you bought and then enchanted yourself: Full Plate +1 [1650gp + 500gp, 40xpC for enchantment] Full plate that you crafted and then enchanted yourself: Full Plate +1 [750gpC + 500gp, 40xpC for enchantment] As to the second question, Force Screen is a personal effect, therefore it costs double the usual - so 100gp.
NiQil 08-31-05, 03:05 PM	A quick question regarding Item upgrades (Like upgrading a MC weapon to +1, or a +1 weapon/armor to +2): How does one go about that. I assume you don't mearly state that you suddenly have it, unless you just buy the item. Second I heard that psionic tattoo's in some cases cost double I'd like to know if a psionic tattoo of Force Screen with a ML of 1 would cost 50 gp or 100 gp. Any psionic tattoo with a range of personal (including Skate) cost double it's normal cost. So for ML 1 tattoos with personal range, they are 100 gp. Force Screen falls into this category. As far as upgrading weapons, you just pay the difference. So if you have a Ma weapon and want to get a +1 enchantment on it, you pay the 2000 extra to have the enchantment added, and note it on your sheet that way. For an example, take a look at the armor that Silas the Soulreaver is in. Self-crafted, and then enchanted. Look in both the equipment and accounting categories of the sheet to see everything.
Laughing_Dragon 08-31-05, 03:10 PM	Noted all. Thank you very much ^^
Snommelp 08-31-05, 03:59 PM	But the difference is, is that there are far fewer people who will specify in their tactics to never hide than there are who won't. So while pitlords who get characters such as Grik who never wants to hide might have to do some additional work in that specific instance, on the whole, it will make or less work for them. I almost hate to dredge this back up, but I'm still not quite satisfied... *Ahem* Really? I was under the impression that gladiators who hide were in the minority. After all, the reshaped arena isn't all that conducive to hiding, what with all of the open spaces. Is there really such a large majority of gladiators who intend to hide? I really have been gone a long time if that's true...
TelinArtho 08-31-05, 03:59 PM	Okay - I'm working on my next character and it involves some stuff I've never had to really think about. If you are a large creature that is 10ft tall with a 10ft reach, you can hit things up to 10ft directly above you (20ft off the ground). If you have a reach weapon, you'd be able to hit up to 20ft above you (30ft off the ground). If you are a huge creature that is 15ft tall with a 15ft reach, you can hit things up to 15ft directly above you (30ft off the ground) or 30ft above you if you have reach (45ft off the ground). That's all correct right? Also, something that gives 4 racial hit dice would give you your first ability bonus right?
NiQil 08-31-05, 04:03 PM	I almost hate to dredge this back up, but I'm still not quite satisfied... *Ahem* Really? I was under the impression that gladiators who hide were in the minority. After all, the reshaped arena isn't all that conducive to hiding, what with all of the open spaces. Is there really such a large majority of gladiators who intend to hide? I really have been gone a long time if that's true... Go take a look at...say...the last 20 fights posted. See how many had hide and move silently checks from at least one character. And see how many in their tactics said they didn't want to hide or move silently.
Altaris13 08-31-05, 04:06 PM	Okay - I'm working on my next character and it involves some stuff I've never had to really think about. If you are a large creature that is 10ft tall with a 10ft reach, you can hit things up to 10ft directly above you (20ft off the ground). If you have a reach weapon, you'd be able to hit up to 20ft above you (30ft off the ground). If you are a huge creature that is 15ft tall with a 15ft reach, you can hit things up to 15ft directly above you (30ft off the ground) or 30ft above you if you have reach (45ft off the ground). That's all correct right? Also, something that gives 4 racial hit dice would give you your first ability bonus right? I believe you've got it all on the money.
Delusional Illusion 08-31-05, 04:09 PM	Uh, what's the time right now? Did I make it before the character edit deadline? Completely lost the track of time :P
Altaris13 08-31-05, 04:12 PM	You've got about half an hour.
Sindorin 08-31-05, 04:17 PM	Actually, the deadline was about 17 minutes ago... Unless the 'system' has been changed in my abscence...
Gonbow 08-31-05, 04:22 PM	I almost hate to dredge this back up, but I'm still not quite satisfied... *Ahem* Really? I was under the impression that gladiators who hide were in the minority. After all, the reshaped arena isn't all that conducive to hiding, what with all of the open spaces. Is there really such a large majority of gladiators who intend to hide? I really have been gone a long time if that's true... Anyone who uses invisibility wants to use move silently (notes the number of individuals with potions/scrolls of invis) and plenty of archers use them to set up a good opening volley (notes the number of archers). And the new arena is very conductive to hiding, imho. Lots of places to duck behind to cut LOS.
Altaris13 08-31-05, 04:22 PM	They put up a map here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6463615&postcount=7) Unless I'm mistaken, we've got until -5GMT, which should be 5pm EST in America.
Usurpator 08-31-05, 04:24 PM	I almost hate to dredge this back up, but I'm still not quite satisfied... *Ahem* Really? I was under the impression that gladiators who hide were in the minority. After all, the reshaped arena isn't all that conducive to hiding, what with all of the open spaces. Is there really such a large majority of gladiators who intend to hide? I really have been gone a long time if that's true... There can always arise situations where I suddenly want to hide or use the move silently skill. If my heavily armored character is critically wounded but caught in obscuring mist, I don't want my opponent to pinpoint my location while I silently consume a potion of healing. Maybe your opponent has been blinded or deafened, in that case it also suddenly required to make use of skills you don't usually make use of. To say in such a case: 'I let the blinded character pinpoint me automatically with his listen check' would be plain stupid, even for the heavily armored 10-int warrior.
Mind Rogue 08-31-05, 04:26 PM	Nope. The deadline is 9 PM GMT, which currently is 5 PM EST or 2 PM Pacific Time. In about two months, DST will end, pushing the deadlines back to 4 PM EST or 1 PM Pacific, since GMT does not include DST. So, you guys still have about half an hour to finish editing. I made a chart for this, which Cat posted somewhere a few pages back in the tavern. If you want, I can PM it to you.
Altaris13 08-31-05, 04:27 PM	Anyone who uses invisibility wants to use move silently (notes the number of individuals with potions/scrolls of invis) and plenty of archers use them to set up a good opening volley (notes the number of archers). And the new arena is very conductive to hiding, imho. Lots of places to duck behind to cut LOS. I do know of a couple Psion's who use hiding to get close to their targets. But frankly, I agree with Snommelp here. It takes no effort for me to judge a DC as a Pitlord for opposed Spot/Hide & Listen/Move Silent checks. Unless a player's tactics tell me to Hide/MS, then in most cases they aren't going to. On the same token, if someone is going to make a bunch of noise to get their opponent's attention, let them. I'm pretty sure that Gladiators can yell loud enough to be heard across the Arena. It's only 300 hundred something feet, the length of a football stadium. EDIT: As I said, 'most cases.' Ellorion's examples are rather extreme, but fall outside of 'most cases.'
Snommelp 08-31-05, 04:33 PM	Alright, I can see when I've lost. I still find it completely and totally illogical that Hiding is a passive skill, and you have to actively choose not to Hide, but it is painfully obvious that I am making no headway. I will attempt to draw Cat's attention to my arguments, try to show him reason, and then speak of this no more. By the way, pairings aren't up yet, are they?
Altaris13 08-31-05, 04:37 PM	Nope, no pairings yet. They should begin in about 20 minutes, and be up a couple hours after that.
TelinArtho 08-31-05, 05:28 PM	Large weapons are double the cost of medium ones. Is the cost for masterwork doubled as well? Large Heavy Flail - 50gp [Ma] Large Heavy Flail - 350gp or 650gp? What about for composite bows built for strength? Large Composite Bow 200gp Large Mighty (+1 Str) Composite Bow 300gp or 400gp? [Ma] Large Mighty (+8 Str) Composite Bow 1300gp or 2400gp? thanks /d
Altaris13 08-31-05, 05:38 PM	The cost for Ma is NOT doubled (or reduced in the case of small weapons.) You only double the base cost of the weapon (or reduce.)
Emrys Donovan 08-31-05, 09:14 PM	Felix (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7126370&postcount=447) is now ready to be inspected. I will edit in the expendables later. Thanks.
Mind Rogue 08-31-05, 10:14 PM	Question: What kind of action is it to adjust your grip on a weapon (say a dwarf with a waraxe switching from wielding it one-handed to wielding it two-handed). Drawing a weapon and manipulating an object are both move actions, while the FAQ says that switching a weapon from one hand to the other is a move action, but doesn't say anything about putting the other hand back on a two-handed weapon.
NiQil 08-31-05, 10:21 PM	Question: What kind of action is it to adjust your grip on a weapon (say a dwarf with a waraxe switching from wielding it one-handed to wielding it two-handed). Drawing a weapon and manipulating an object are both move actions, while the FAQ says that switching a weapon from one hand to the other is a move action, but doesn't say anything about putting the other hand back on a two-handed weapon. Assuming the second hand is empty before it goes to the waraxe, I would probably call it a swift action.
Gonbow 08-31-05, 10:44 PM	Question: What kind of action is it to adjust your grip on a weapon (say a dwarf with a waraxe switching from wielding it one-handed to wielding it two-handed). Drawing a weapon and manipulating an object are both move actions, while the FAQ says that switching a weapon from one hand to the other is a move action, but doesn't say anything about putting the other hand back on a two-handed weapon. Close to NiQil; I would rule this is a free action. All your doing is moving a hand and clenching it around something. This is about the same amount of effort required to drop something next to you (move so your not dropping it on yourself, unclench hand).
xanadu 08-31-05, 11:23 PM	Question: What kind of action is it to adjust your grip on a weapon (say a dwarf with a waraxe switching from wielding it one-handed to wielding it two-handed). Drawing a weapon and manipulating an object are both move actions, while the FAQ says that switching a weapon from one hand to the other is a move action, but doesn't say anything about putting the other hand back on a two-handed weapon. This is a free action. I know it is in the FAQ somehwere, but dont know excatly where.
Ellorion Saenelle 09-01-05, 02:45 AM	Can you grapple on a AoO? and does Force Screen block all touch attacks?
Luni 09-01-05, 03:48 AM	Can you grapple on a AoO? Yep. But unless you have improved Grapple, you provoke an AoO in return. and does Force Screen block all touch attacks? Just Incorporeal ones. Force Screen does nothing for Alchemist Fire and Chill Touch. It only stops ghosties touch attacks.
Cerebus13 09-01-05, 09:32 AM	If you purchase an Ally that can be made advanced to increase its hitdice, can you increase the hitdice of the Ally after purchasing it? Or is this only available the first time you buy your Ally?
Mind Rogue 09-01-05, 09:55 AM	This is a free action. I know it is in the FAQ somehwere, but dont know excatly where. If someone could find the reference it would be appreciated, but all I've been able to find is the reference about passing a weapon from one hand to the other, and without any other sort of evidence, I'm going to say it takes as much effort to move one hand from somewhere to the hilt of your weapon (that is in the other hand) as it does to grab the item out of your other hand (a move action that can be combined with movement or a free-action with quickdraw).
TelinArtho 09-01-05, 10:14 AM	You can only advance allies at purchase/questing time - not afterwards.
Snommelp 09-01-05, 10:49 AM	If someone could find the reference it would be appreciated, but all I've been able to find is the reference about passing a weapon from one hand to the other, and without any other sort of evidence, I'm going to say it takes as much effort to move one hand from somewhere to the hilt of your weapon (that is in the other hand) as it does to grab the item out of your other hand (a move action that can be combined with movement or a free-action with quickdraw). It's here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041102a), under Adjacent Squares and Reach Weapons:Although the rules don't mention it, letting go of a two-handed weapon with one hand or putting a free hand back on the weapon is a free action for you.Rules of the Game article, not the FAQ. It might be in the FAQ as well, though. I'll keep looking. EDIT: from the FAQ:If Gruntharg wants to use that longspear he has been holding on his shoulder or dragging on the ground, he has to get his free hand on it. This maneuver is similar to drawing the weapon, but a little easier, since Gruntharg already has one hand on it. Therefore, it’s a free action. But Gruntharg can do this only during his own turn, and in any case, he does not threaten an area with the longspear when he’s holding it in only one hand.
TelinArtho 09-01-05, 11:36 AM	I swear I must be the worst questlord. I'm now in my second battle for Xanadu's quest and I've dealt one critical (that knocked one of his characters to -4 from full hp) and threatened two others... Fight 2 is already getting interesting...
Sindorin 09-01-05, 12:06 PM	Since I have been gone for a short time, it seems that I may be confused about something. How is it that there are currently two quests that each have a person playing two of their own characters? Has the FAQ, which used to say You may NOT play two of your own characters in a quest now been changed? Curious...
TelinArtho 09-01-05, 12:18 PM	In all honesty, I saw that King Uther was running two of ToK's characters, so I assumed it was fine. I would suspect it isn't a big deal - just make sure the characters don't split the treasure unevenly and make sure they don't trade items while on the quest. /d
TheMagister 09-01-05, 01:57 PM	@Laughing Dragon and @Dr. Funk There's been a miscommunication between myself and Caterane; I can't pitlord your contest this week! Look for a re-assignment soon. TM Edit: Reassigned to Gonbow! Send your tactics to him! tm
xanadu 09-01-05, 02:53 PM	If someone could find the reference it would be appreciated, but all I've been able to find is the reference about passing a weapon from one hand to the other, and without any other sort of evidence, I'm going to say it takes as much effort to move one hand from somewhere to the hilt of your weapon (that is in the other hand) as it does to grab the item out of your other hand (a move action that can be combined with movement or a free-action with quickdraw). Mind rogue, look at the rules of the game about clerics. I'm sure it talks there about somantic components and moving hands. I know this is a free action, I'm just not sure where I read it.
SoulLord 09-01-05, 08:06 PM	How many explosive runes can fit into a scroll? not talking about scribing the spell, I'm talking about placing runes on it.... it seems the minimum would be 6 but what would the most be?
Emrys Donovan 09-01-05, 11:21 PM	Felix (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7126370&postcount=447) is now ready to be inspected. I will edit in the expendables later. Thanks. Anything?
Snommelp 09-02-05, 02:06 AM	Anything? You list your Mighty (+2) bow as dealing +3 damage. One of those numbers has to be wrong. I don't know the Mindblade class well enough to help further. Looks almost perfect from my viewpoint, though.
Vathelokai 09-02-05, 07:41 AM	Hey All! :dragon: Have fun examining my new character (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7139586&postcount=450). :D If you find an error, let me know.
NiQil 09-02-05, 08:51 AM	So last night I had my graphic designer wife clean up our Arena Map, since she thought it looked a little hard to use. So she cleaned it up, made the numbering easier to see and to tell which columns/rows they belong to, and also changed the coordinate system to the standard Cartesian setup. With lots of people already making this change themselves in their individual battles, I think it would be a good idea to use this map as our new arena map. Take a look at it and let me know what you think.
Emrys Donovan 09-02-05, 04:07 PM	You list your Mighty (+2) bow as dealing +3 damage. One of those numbers has to be wrong. I don't know the Mindblade class well enough to help further. Looks almost perfect from my viewpoint, though. Right...Thanks.
xanadu 09-02-05, 06:56 PM	So last night I had my graphic designer wife clean up our Arena Map, since she thought it looked a little hard to use. So she cleaned it up, made the numbering easier to see and to tell which columns/rows they belong to, and also changed the coordinate system to the standard Cartesian setup. With lots of people already making this change themselves in their individual battles, I think it would be a good idea to use this map as our new arena map. Take a look at it and let me know what you think. Wow, that does look "clean".
Ribking 09-02-05, 08:45 PM	Hello everyone. I just fought (and lost) my first arena match! I wanted to know how long do I need to wait before I can start modifying my character? IE - Spend money, etc....
Gonbow 09-02-05, 08:52 PM	Hello everyone. I just fought (and lost) my first arena match! I wanted to know how long do I need to wait before I can start modifying my character? IE - Spend money, etc.... You can begin modifying your character as soon as the fight is posted.
Snommelp 09-02-05, 08:59 PM	Hello everyone. I just fought (and lost) my first arena match! I wanted to know how long do I need to wait before I can start modifying my character? IE - Spend money, etc.... As Gonbow said, you can edit as soon as your fight is posted. If there are any problems, though, it's better to wait until those are sorted out. If there aren't any problems, go ahead and begin editing.
Ribking 09-02-05, 09:02 PM	Thanks guys. :)
Emrys Donovan 09-02-05, 11:15 PM	Ok, Victor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7144626&postcount=451) is ready to be torn apart.
Snommelp 09-02-05, 11:32 PM	Ok, Victor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7144626&postcount=451) is ready to be torn apart. We're not tearing apart, we're...um... rending asunder... Aasimar is a type of Outsider. All Outsiders are proficient with simple and martial weapons.
Gonbow 09-02-05, 11:45 PM	Ok, Victor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7144626&postcount=451) is ready to be torn apart. I haven't looked at the sheet, but I'll note that the name Victor is already in use. You'll have to look farther afield for a good name ;)
Snommelp 09-03-05, 12:05 AM	I haven't looked at the sheet, but I'll note that the name Victor is already in use. You'll have to look farther afield for a good name ;) We could turn Victor into Victoria...
Emrys Donovan 09-03-05, 01:09 AM	Can a character start out with dragonhide armor? If so, is there a limit to the size of dragon?
Gonbow 09-03-05, 01:12 AM	Can a character start out with dragonhide armor? If so, is there a limit to the size of dragon? Yes and no, respectively. If you can pay for it, you can have it.
Emrys Donovan 09-03-05, 01:15 AM	And the shield that comes with the armor, either small or large, is either light or heavy, respectively? And would it be considered wooden or steel for weight and ac bonus purposes?
Gonbow 09-03-05, 01:23 AM	Dragonhide doesn't come with free shields. That is just describing what you can make from that size dragon, not what you MUST make or is ALWAYS made. (Any armor in the book can be made from dragon hide, for example, not just those mentioned in it's description).
Emrys Donovan 09-03-05, 01:32 AM	Ah, ok, thanks. Well, I'm off to bed. G'nite.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-03-05, 03:56 AM	Are there no verbal, somatic, or material components for psionic powers like there are for spells? -ToK
Pitlords 09-03-05, 09:15 AM	@all: NiQil posted a new Arena Map with new coordinates. Can someone please convert the code map of the arena accordingly? I'll give you a credit for it.
nightbanegod 09-03-05, 09:29 AM	@all: NiQil posted a new Arena Map with new coordinates. Can someone please convert the code map of the arena accordingly? I'll give you a credit for it. DIBBS!!! im working on it right now!! x 3 2 2 1 1 - + 1 1 2 2 3 y 0 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 30 w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w O O O O O O O O O O O O O w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w30 9 w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w 9 8 w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w 8 7 w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w 7 6 w w w w w w w w w w w w w O O O O O O O O O O O O O § O O O C O O O § O O O O O O O O O O O O O w w w w w w w w w w w w w 6 25 w w w w w w w w w w w O O O O O O O § O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O § O O O O O O O w w w w w w w w w w w25 4 w w w w w w w w w w O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O 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O O O O O O O O § O O O O O O O @ @ @ O O O O O O O § O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O B O O O O 0 -1 O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O @ O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O-1 2 O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O @ @ O O O O O @ @ O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O 2 3 O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O § O O O O O O O O O O @ @ O O O @ @ O O O O O O O O O O § O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O 3 4 O O O O § O O O O @ O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O @ O O O @ O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O @ O O O O § O O O O 4 5 O O O O O O O O @ @ O O O O O O O O O O O O O O @ @ O O O O O O O O O @ @ O O O O O O O O O O O O O O @ @ O O O O O O O O 5 6 O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O @ @ O O O O O O O O O @ @ O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O 6 7 w O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O w 7 8 w O O O O O O O O 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6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 ok i silvered out the arena floor but as you can tell you can still easily make out the grid squares. all you gotta do is highlight it if you really wanna see those circles. this way it is easier to see the rocks on the floor and the pillar locations and just nicer on the eyes. and i switched around the coordinates and added another row on the far right side [30,0] so that you can tell their Y coordinate on the far side without having to trace across the entire arena... this what you were looking for?
Caterane 09-03-05, 09:36 AM	@all: I think it is time to inform you about the progress on the World Map. I haven't had much time to work on it so the progress was not the best one but I think it was worth the delay. The World Map is <here (http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Karten/World-of-Gladius-5.jpg) > (heavy graphic!) It's of course not finished but the topography is complete. The Map is divided into Sectors. Each will get its own post in the World Thread, perhaps with sectors on their own. We can basically break the world down from the globe to Angosh's loo. Gladius is in Sector 12 which will be the main sector. The vast forest to the north is of course the High Forest. The rest still has to be filled up ...by you. For example, the brown island in sector 15 might be a small undead island nation. I'll open a new thread <here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=495565)> where everyone can post his ideas. The more concrete you are the more likely we will take it. If you remember something from a Quest, Campaign, or Story please tell us there too. One final thing: Please don't hold any lengthy conversations in this thread unless it really adds to the thread. The Scribelords will later use this thread to fill out the world.
Altaris13 09-03-05, 09:46 AM	Are there no verbal, somatic, or material components for psionic powers like there are for spells? -ToK Nope. Psionics are cool like that. Generally, they have 'displays' which are particular to each power. Most are visual, some are audio, etc.
Maraxus 09-03-05, 11:31 AM	About the world map: 1st: The topography is boring, not enough montains and rivers. Do we agree, that the mountains and rivers shown are only the largest? 2nd: About the measurement: If you really want a WORLD, The 1700x1400 miles per square are okay, this would mean the central landmass would be about twice as big as africa (The United stated are about as big as the high forest plus the arctic peninsula northwest of it and Germany would be the size of the little island in 42). However, this would make continental travel very hard in a time befor plaines or railroads. Magic could help, but still this could be a bad excuse. We can easilie measure it down by the factor of 1/2. However, it should not be less, or else the climate-zones (desert and arctics) would be quite close to another. 3rd: I have planes for southern 32. :) PS: 4th: How raw may the ideas one posts into the worldmap thread be? would have this post been better placed there?
Snommelp 09-03-05, 12:35 PM	I seem to have left my DMG on the other side of the state when I came back to college. Could somebody PM me Table 4-23? Barring that, could someone tell me where it is in the SRD?
Emrys Donovan 09-03-05, 06:30 PM	How much do powerstones and tatoos weigh? Edit: Also, Maximus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7086692&postcount=435) has been edited...Please look him over again.
Snommelp 09-03-05, 06:48 PM	Edit: Also, Maximus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7086692&postcount=435) has been edited...Please look him over again. Weapon Focus: Grapple does not give you +1 to your opposed Grapple checks. Weapon Focus gives you +1 to attack rolls, i.e. the touch attack made to start a grapple.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-03-05, 06:50 PM	Weapon Focus: Grapple does not give you +1 to your opposed Grapple checks. Weapon Focus gives you +1 to attack rolls, i.e. the touch attack made to start a grapple. Indeed it does Snommelp. Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike would give you the +1 to the touch attack roll made to start a grapple. -ToK
Snommelp 09-03-05, 06:54 PM	Indeed it does Snommelp. Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike would give you the +1 to the touch attack roll made to start a grapple. -ToK Quoi? I'm afraid you'll have to explain the logic. Weapon Focus states that it grants +1 to attack rolls, and an opposed grapple check is not (to my knowledge) considered an attack roll.
Emrys Donovan 09-03-05, 06:54 PM	Ah, thanks. What about how much tatoos and powerstones weigh? Do either of you know?
Snommelp 09-03-05, 06:57 PM	Ah, thanks. What about how much tatoos and powerstones weigh? Do either of you know? Tattoos shouldn't weigh anything. I don't know about powerstones, though.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-03-05, 07:00 PM	Quoi? I'm afraid you'll have to explain the logic. Weapon Focus states that it grants +1 to attack rolls, and an opposed grapple check is not (to my knowledge) considered an attack roll. phb p. 156 Grapple Checks Repeatedly in a grapple, you need to make opposed grapple checks against an opponent. A grapple check is like a melee attack roll. Your attack bonus on a grapple check is: It's "like an attack roll", which means you can crit as well. By definition, if you took a feat to augment this, it would be added. -ToK
Emrys Donovan 09-03-05, 07:03 PM	Tattoos shouldn't weigh anything. I don't know about powerstones, though. Ok. I'll ask later about pwerstones, when more people are on. And I have editted both Felix (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7126370&postcount=447) and Nico (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7144626&postcount=451), and I'd appreciate it if you guys went over them as well. Thanks.
Snommelp 09-03-05, 07:04 PM	It's "like an attack roll", which means you can crit as well. By definition, if you took a feat to augment this, it would be added. -ToK Huh... missed that part. OK. Good to know about the crit part, too.
nightbanegod 09-03-05, 07:42 PM	It's "like an attack roll", which means you can crit as well. By definition, if you took a feat to augment this, it would be added. -ToK im curious as to what would be multiplied on a successful crit grapple check? would you .... *shudder* nvm... just what would be multiplied?
Tellish_of_Ket 09-03-05, 07:49 PM	im curious as to what would be multiplied on a successful crit grapple check? would you .... *shudder* nvm... just what would be multiplied? well, it's unarmed, soooooo it would be 20/x2. -ToK
nightbanegod 09-03-05, 07:56 PM	About the world map: 1st: The topography is boring, not enough montains and rivers. Do we agree, that the mountains and rivers shown are only the largest? 2nd: About the measurement: If you really want a WORLD, The 1700x1400 miles per square are okay, this would mean the central landmass would be about twice as big as africa (The United stated are about as big as the high forest plus the arctic peninsula northwest of it and Germany would be the size of the little island in 42). However, this would make continental travel very hard in a time befor plaines or railroads. Magic could help, but still this could be a bad excuse. We can easilie measure it down by the factor of 1/2. However, it should not be less, or else the climate-zones (desert and arctics) would be quite close to another. agreed 3rd: I have planes for southern 32. :) PS: 4th: How raw may the ideas one posts into the worldmap thread be? would have this post been better placed there? jeez i just tried to save the picture to my computer and open it up so i could adjust the size and see the whole thing at once... my computer said there was too many bytes in the image and couldnt open it up :weep: maybe my computer just sucks i dunno *edit* i know what the modifier would be since its unarmed. but if its a pass or fail check. do you get to do damage on it? or are you talking about the grapple check while your grappled to do unarmed damage?
Snommelp 09-03-05, 07:59 PM	*edit* i know what the modifier would be since its unarmed. but if its a pass or fail check. do you get to do damage on it? or are you talking about the grapple check while your grappled to do unarmed damage? We're talking about checks to do damage.
Gonbow 09-03-05, 08:03 PM	well, it's unarmed, soooooo it would be 20/x2. -ToK [Silly Mode] Unless your a level 45 monk with Keen Strike! 18-20x2 grappling for life! [/Silly Mode]
NiQil 09-03-05, 08:07 PM	I'll have to look at the SRD, as I am not very familiar with the grapple rules...hence the reason one of my characters is a grappler (to learn them)....but I was under the impression that the weapon focus bonus only applied on the initial check to initiate the grapple. Is that correct?
Tellish_of_Ket 09-03-05, 08:17 PM	I'll have to look at the SRD, as I am not very familiar with the grapple rules...hence the reason one of my characters is a grappler (to learn them)....but I was under the impression that the weapon focus bonus only applied on the initial check to initiate the grapple. Is that correct? Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike, +1 to unarmed attacks, including the touch attack to start a grapple. +1 to "attacking a character" within a grapple. Weapon Focus: Grapple, +1 to opposed grapple checks. Does not affect "attacking a characer" within the grapple. -ToK
NiQil 09-03-05, 08:26 PM	Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike, +1 to unarmed attacks, including the touch attack to start a grapple. +1 to "attacking a character" within a grapple. Weapon Focus: Grapple, +1 to opposed grapple checks. Does not affect "attacking a characer" within the grapple. -ToK Ahhh....that makes things a little clearer. So with both feats, that would give me +1 to start the grapple, +1 to the opposed check, and then +1 to use the attack a character within a grapple. So basically +1 to just about everything you can do in a grapple LOL.
Emrys Donovan 09-03-05, 09:41 PM	And I have editted both Felix (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7126370&postcount=447) and Nico (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7144626&postcount=451), and I'd appreciate it if you guys went over them as well. Thanks. Anyone? Thanks.
Luni 09-03-05, 09:50 PM	Nico, is going to have a tough time winning, because you really have no way to damage anybody. He should also receive Med Armor, Lt. Armor and Shield Prof. for being an aasimar. Felix Skills: 44 Points (32 points Psy-War, 12 points Monk) Why the high Int for Felix?
Gonbow 09-03-05, 10:06 PM	Nico, is going to have a tough time winning, because you really have no way to damage anybody. He should also receive Med Armor, Lt. Armor and Shield Prof. for being an aasimar. Felix Skills: 44 Points (32 points Psy-War, 12 points Monk) Why the high Int for Felix? Tieflings and Aasimar's don't get any armor proficiencies, those listed in the stat block come from the 1 level of warrior. They do get martial weapon profs however, as discussed here over and over again ^_^
Luni 09-03-05, 10:43 PM	Tieflings and Aasimar's don't get any armor proficiencies, those listed in the stat block come from the 1 level of warrior. They do get martial weapon profs however, as discussed here over and over again ^_^ I'm under the impression they did get the prof. from being outsiders. They do have the armor prof. in their descripton. Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor. I blame WoTC for not giving us Planetouched Commoners!
Emrys Donovan 09-03-05, 11:11 PM	Whats bad about being smart? And what do you mean Nico has no way of damaging anybody? That's what the potion of bulls strength is for, plus the offensive precog/presciense can help.
King Uther 09-03-05, 11:14 PM	To gain outsider traits you need to usually have hit dice of outsider.
Luni 09-03-05, 11:21 PM	Whats bad about being smart? And what do you mean Nico has no way of damaging anybody? That's what the potion of bulls strength is for, plus the offensive precog/presciense can help. There's nothing wrong about being smart. Maybe I'm wrong and Nico will remain undefeated from levels 3-20. They were just my opinions. Feel free to ignore them.
Luni 09-03-05, 11:23 PM	To gain outsider traits you need to usually have hit dice of outsider. No you don't. The only type where you need 1 HD to gain the traits is Humanoids. Humanoids with more than 1 Hit Die are the only humanoids who make use of the features of the humanoid type.
Mind Rogue 09-03-05, 11:57 PM	@ Pitlords Could I swap Alexi's Stand Still feat for either Improved Trip or Two-Weapon Fighting? He hasn't used it and I've come to realize that it's generally pretty worthless since most foes either stay in melee or else use the withdraw action, preventing the AoO anyway. Oh, and Yoriko's last fight has changed yet again, so you should probably adjust the power rating.
Emrys Donovan 09-04-05, 03:11 AM	Duncan (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7153423&postcount=452) is now ready to be rended asunder. ;)
Vathelokai 09-04-05, 03:51 AM	Where did Duncan get the Lv. 3 spell? Looks like a misprint. You cannot use powerstones unless you have a manifester level (or Use Psionic Device skill). They function like scrolls. If you want psi stuff, tatoos are your only real option.
Caterane 09-04-05, 04:34 AM	@ Pitlords Could I swap Alexi's Stand Still feat for either Improved Trip or Two-Weapon Fighting? He hasn't used it and I've come to realize that it's generally pretty worthless since most foes either stay in melee or else use the withdraw action, preventing the AoO anyway. Ok. Link this post.
Luni 09-04-05, 11:14 AM	Duncan (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7153423&postcount=452) is now ready to be rended asunder. ;) Exotic Weapon Prof. requires a +1 BAB. Swap it with Improved Trip, and you are fine. Also, You may want to spend all your skills
Emrys Donovan 09-04-05, 03:09 PM	Where did Duncan get the Lv. 3 spell? Looks like a misprint. Its a bonus spell for a high Wisdom score. And I removed the powerstones. @ Luni: Duncan has a BAB +1. Edit: Nevermind, Luni, I see what you meant.
Snommelp 09-04-05, 03:45 PM	Its a bonus spell for a high Wisdom score. You can't use it, though... a level 3 druid has - level 3 spells. If it was 0 instead of - you could use the bonus spell.
Vathelokai 09-04-05, 03:47 PM	Its a bonus spell for a high Wisdom score. I thought that you didn't get access to the high stat bonus spells until your caster lv allowed you to cast the spells? And isn't entangle a 1st lv spell? I'm confused. I should get some sleep.
TelinArtho 09-04-05, 03:48 PM	You only gain bonus spells of a spell level that you can currently cast. In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level.
Snommelp 09-04-05, 06:19 PM	Questions: When using a double weapon, do you still add strength and a half? Do half-orcs get weapon familiarity with an orc double-axe?
Mind Rogue 09-04-05, 06:23 PM	Questions: When using a double weapon, do you still add strength and a half? Do half-orcs get weapon familiarity with an orc double-axe? No and No. However, I think that orcs should get the weapon proficiency, although it is not my place to make that rule.
Snommelp 09-04-05, 06:43 PM	One more question: Does using a double weapon count as using two weapons for the purposes of a full attack and the Two-Weapon Fighting feat?
Gonbow 09-04-05, 06:49 PM	One more question: Does using a double weapon count as using two weapons for the purposes of a full attack and the Two-Weapon Fighting feat? If you attack with both heads, yes. If you only attack with one head, no.
Snommelp 09-04-05, 06:52 PM	Alright. Thanks to both of you.
Emrys Donovan 09-04-05, 07:13 PM	You only gain bonus spells of a spell level that you can currently cast.In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level. Yes. For a druid to be able to cast a level 3 spell, he must have a Wis score of at least 10 + the spell level, and since Duncan's score is 16, I'd say that's high enough. You can't use it, though... a level 3 druid has - level 3 spells. If it was 0 instead of - you could use the bonus spell. Why can't I use it? And in the tables for the wizard, sorcerer and druid they put "-," not "0."
Snommelp 09-04-05, 07:37 PM	Why can't I use it? And in the tables for the wizard, sorcerer and druid they put "-," not "0." Because a "-" means that you are incapable of casting spells of that level. A "0" (which is only found in bard, paladin, and ranger spell tables) means that you can cast spells of that level, but only if you have a bonus spell of that level. Does that make sense to you? If not, I can try to explain in another way.
Emrys Donovan 09-04-05, 09:29 PM	Because a "-" means that you are incapable of casting spells of that level. A "0" (which is only found in bard, paladin, and ranger spell tables) means that you can cast spells of that level, but only if you have a bonus spell of that level. Does that make sense to you? If not, I can try to explain in another way. Yup, got it. Thanks.
Snommelp 09-04-05, 11:00 PM	No prob, Emrys. New question (or maybe not so new): If I have a masterwork bow and masterwork arrows, is that +2 to my attack or only +1?
NiQil 09-04-05, 11:08 PM	No prob, Emrys. New question (or maybe not so new): If I have a masterwork bow and masterwork arrows, is that +2 to my attack or only +1? MASTERWORK WEAPONS A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls. You can’t add the masterwork quality to a weapon after it is created; it must be crafted as a masterwork weapon (see the Craft skill). The masterwork quality adds 300 gp to the cost of a normal weapon (or 6 gp to the cost of a single unit of ammunition). Adding the masterwork quality to a double weapon costs twice the normal increase (+600 gp). Masterwork ammunition is damaged (effectively destroyed) when used. The enhancement bonus of masterwork ammunition does not stack with any enhancement bonus of the projectile weapon firing it. All magic weapons are automatically considered to be of masterwork quality. The enhancement bonus granted by the masterwork quality doesn’t stack with the enhancement bonus provided by the weapon’s magic. Even though some types of armor and shields can be used as weapons, you can’t create a masterwork version of such an item that confers an enhancement bonus on attack rolls. Instead, masterwork armor and shields have lessened armor check penalties. Doesn't stack...you would be +1 to hit.
Snommelp 09-04-05, 11:13 PM	Thanks... kind of makes masterwork ammo seem pointless, eh? If you don't have enough gp for a masterwork bow, you can have the masterwork bonus for five shots or so, then it's back to normal ammunition.
NiQil 09-04-05, 11:29 PM	Thanks... kind of makes masterwork ammo seem pointless, eh? If you don't have enough gp for a masterwork bow, you can have the masterwork bonus for five shots or so, then it's back to normal ammunition. Not really...for instance, the general plan for my archer (Kronos the Farslayer) is to put his bow at a +5 and maybe add some other enchantments to it as well that will then get bestowed to the ammunition. But then I can craft masterwork ammunition and have it enchanted with different enchantments so that I am getting enchantments from both the bow and the arrow....a nice away to get around the total +10 in enchantments....although quite costly until yer of high enough level to afford to do this regularly.
nightbanegod 09-05-05, 03:47 AM	Not really...for instance, the general plan for my archer (Kronos the Farslayer) is to put his bow at a +5 and maybe add some other enchantments to it as well that will then get bestowed to the ammunition. But then I can craft masterwork ammunition and have it enchanted with different enchantments so that I am getting enchantments from both the bow and the arrow....a nice away to get around the total +10 in enchantments....although quite costly until yer of high enough level to afford to do this regularly. Spell storing anarchic holy +5 enchantment on a +5 mighty composite long bow with a +2 Shocking burst Frost burst wounding thundering*lawful outsider*bane *evil outsider*Bane silver arrow would just nearly obliterate your average Pit Fiend me thinks
Tellish_of_Ket 09-05-05, 03:50 AM	if you already have a +5 bow then any magical enchantments you have from arrows wouldnt stack... as far as +x goes... perhaps if your shooting bane arrows or flaiming or something like that but thats just not nice!! keen anarchic holy +5 enchantment on a +5 mighty composite long bow with a Shocking burst*evil outsider*Bane silver arrow would just nearly obliterate your average Pit Fiend me thinks You're half right. the +x enchantments would stack for damage purposes. and you can't keen a bow or it's arrows. -ToK
Emrys Donovan 09-05-05, 04:41 AM	I think I read somewhere that Use Magic Device and Use Psionic Device are used interchangeably...or maybe that was my RL DM's own house rule...Can't remember. If that's so here, does that mean a character with UMD can use powerstones?
Emrys Donovan 09-05-05, 05:10 AM	I think I read somewhere that Use Magic Device and Use Psionic Device are used interchangeably...or maybe that was my RL DM's own house rule...Can't remember. If that's so here, does that mean a character with UMD can use powerstones? Nevermind, I'll just use the UPD skill instead, lol. Ok, here's Merrick (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7161984&postcount=453) to be looked over. Thanks.
Vathelokai 09-05-05, 09:23 AM	Nevermind, I'll just use the UPD skill instead, lol. Ok, here's Merrick to be looked over. Thanks. Your dex mod (and thus your ranged attacks) are off. I'd pick up a sling, incase someone thinks to 'ray of enfeeble' you. Also, weaponsmithing dosn't cover bows, incase you didn't know. I'd trade some hide/movesilent points to UPD just to make it more possible to make the UPD roll. A 10 is really as good as a 12 in hide, especially with the a tat of chameleon. Overall, I like him.
Gonbow 09-05-05, 12:04 PM	You're half right. the +x enchantments would stack for damage purposes. and you can't keen a bow or it's arrows. -ToK Actually, why cant you keen arrows? They arn't projecticle weapons, but rather ammunition. There isn't a list of what can be applied to them, but keen arrows make sense to me, thematically (though they are probably a scary idea balance wise).
Vathelokai 09-05-05, 12:23 PM	I always thought ammo counted as part of a 'ranged weapon' for the purposes of keen...or most purposes actually.
NiQil 09-05-05, 12:54 PM	Table: Ranged Weapon Special Abilities Minor Medium Major Special Ability Base Price Modifier1 01–12 01–08 01–04 Bane +1 bonus 13–25 09–16 05–08 Distance +1 bonus 26–40 17–28 09–12 Flaming +1 bonus 41–55 29–40 13–16 Frost +1 bonus 56–60 41–42 — Merciful +1 bonus 61–68 43–47 17–21 Returning +1 bonus 69–83 48–59 22–25 Shock +1 bonus 84–93 60–64 26–27 Seeking +1 bonus 94–99 65–68 28–29 Thundering +1 bonus — 69–71 30–34 Anarchic +2 bonus — 72–74 35–39 Axiomatic +2 bonus — 75–79 40–49 Flaming burst +2 bonus — 80–82 50–54 Holy +2 bonus — 83–87 55–64 Icy burst +2 bonus — 88–92 65–74 Shocking burst +2 bonus — 93–95 75–79 Unholy +2 bonus — — 80–84 Speed +3 bonus — — 85–90 Brilliant energy +4 bonus 100 96–100 91–100 Roll again twice2 — 1 Add to enhancement bonus on Table: Weapons to determine total market price. 2 Reroll if you get a duplicate special ability, an ability incompatible with an ability that you’ve already rolled, or if the extra ability puts you over the +10 limit. A weapon’s enhancement bonus and special ability bonus equivalents can’t total more than +10. Above is the table of enchantments that can be added to ranged weaponry. Keen isn't on the list, hence it can't be added. This list applies to both the weapon itself and it's ammunition. You can't add an enhancement to a bow, crossbow, or sling that is not on this list, nor can you add an enhancement to arrows, bolts or bullets that is not on this list. All other ranged weaponry (such as a javelin or dagger) depend on whether or not you can also use them in melee as to what enchantments you can add....I believe most other ranged weapons *can also be used in melee so you can add from the melee weapons list.
King Uther 09-05-05, 01:01 PM	While I agree that ammo is a ranged weapon and should use the ranged weapon table, arrows can be used in melee as well.
Gonbow 09-05-05, 01:02 PM	Above is the table of enchantments that can be added to ranged weaponry. Keen isn't on the list, hence it can't be added. This list applies to both the weapon itself and it's ammunition. You can't add an enhancement to a bow, crossbow, or sling that is not on this list, nor can you add an enhancement to arrows, bolts or bullets that is not on this list. All other ranged weaponry (such as a javelin or dagger) depend on whether or not you can also use them in melee as to what enchantments you can add....I believe most other ranged weapons *can also be used in melee so you can add from the melee weapons list. So can arrows and bolts. They function as daggers of their size. Arrows: An arrow used as a melee weapon is treated as a light improvised weapon (–4 penalty on attack rolls) and deals damage as a dagger of its size (critical multiplier x2). Arrows come in a leather quiver that holds 20 arrows. An arrow that hits its target is destroyed; one that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost. So... why cant they be keen again? ;)
Snommelp 09-05-05, 01:04 PM	Can you enchant improvised weapons? Can you have a +2 table leg? Can you have a vorpal broken ceramic pot? Melee arrows and bolts are improvised weapons, after all, so that needs to be taken into account.
King Uther 09-05-05, 01:05 PM	I want a +2 lead pipe of disruption.
Gonbow 09-05-05, 01:07 PM	Can you enchant improvised weapons? Can you have a +2 table leg? Can you have a vorpal broken ceramic pot? Melee arrows and bolts are improvised weapons, after all, so that needs to be taken into account. As long as it's a masterwork table leg... I would say so, yes! A vorpal broken ceramic pot may not be possible though, as it is broken by definition it may no longer be considered 'masterwork' and thus enchantable.
Maraxus 09-05-05, 01:07 PM	Wait, if you have a "meele only" enchantment on a throw-able weapon, do they also work when thrown? Not that ths would be bad with keen or vicious but what about spell-storing?
Tellish_of_Ket 09-05-05, 01:09 PM	So... why cant they be keen again? ;) Because it's not on the list. Though they can be used as melee weapons, that isn't their intention and are classified under ranged weapons for purposes of enchantments. Under ranged weapon enchantments, there is no KEEN option. The Keen Edge spell is the only way i know of to make arrows keen, albeit temporarily. -ToK
Tellish_of_Ket 09-05-05, 01:10 PM	Wait, if you have a "meele only" enchantment on a throw-able weapon, do they also work when thrown? Not that ths would be bad with keen or vicious but what about spell-storing? All weapons are throwable. You can throw a greataxe if you wish, and NO, they do not lose their enchantments. -ToK
NiQil 09-05-05, 01:17 PM	Weapons come in two basic categories: melee and ranged. Some of the weapons listed as melee weapons can also be used as ranged weapons. In this case, their enhancement bonus applies to either type of attack. So yes, daggers keep their enchantments when thrown. The melee list of enchantments cover every enchantment on the ranged list except Distance and Returning.
Snommelp 09-05-05, 01:19 PM	Hmm... just had a thought. It's rare, I know. If improvised weapons are enchantable, could an ogre throw a +2 gnome-bane halfling? I know it's not actually possible, but man, would it be funny...
NiQil 09-05-05, 01:23 PM	Hmm... just had a thought. It's rare, I know. If improvised weapons are enchantable, could an ogre throw a +2 gnome-bane halfling? I know it's not actually possible, but man, would it be funny... Only if he is masterwork first...and for parents to have a masterwork child is going in a direction I am not headed :rofl:
Gonbow 09-05-05, 01:25 PM	Perhaps a masterwork homonculi? Bwahahaha!
King Uther 09-05-05, 01:35 PM	You need a returning enchantment on that halfling. It's mandatory for the "halfling hurler" build.
NiQil 09-05-05, 01:43 PM	You need a returning enchantment on that halfling. It's mandatory for the "halfling hurler" build. Great...now we have D&D WWE-style....in this corner we have Triple H...the Hulking Halfling Hurler.....
Emrys Donovan 09-05-05, 02:27 PM	Your dex mod (and thus your ranged attacks) are off. I'd pick up a sling, incase someone thinks to 'ray of enfeeble' you. Also, weaponsmithing dosn't cover bows, incase you didn't know. I'd trade some hide/movesilent points to UPD just to make it more possible to make the UPD roll. A 10 is really as good as a 12 in hide, especially with the a tat of chameleon. Overall, I like him. Thanks...I think I'm going to have fun with her. :P Thanks for the heads up on Craft. Fixed that, and everything to do with my dex mod. Also, I can only get up to 4 ranks in UPD as it and UMD are cross-class skills for a ranger.
Snommelp 09-05-05, 03:02 PM	Gonbow: Either Sam or Grik would like to challenge either Tatyana or Lortavos for next week. Consider this the glove slap to the face.
Gonbow 09-05-05, 03:39 PM	Gonbow: Either Sam or Grik would like to challenge either Tatyana or Lortavos for next week. Consider this the glove slap to the face. Tatyana eyes the orc with a rather ugly sneer on her face, "You wish to battle me? Truly, the tales of orcish stupidity are not an exaggeration. Come then, in two days hence, you shall know your folly." She signs the writ of challenge and hands it to a nearby official, so the challenge and her agreement to it are duly recorded. [OOC: Lortavos isn't active this week (Him and Santos are going to be switching on and off for a bit), so Tatyana will accept Grik's challenge. Brains vrs Brawn.]
Snommelp 09-05-05, 03:53 PM	Grik looks at Tatyana with a puzzled look on his face, until Sam reaches up and explains that Tatyana has agreed to fight him. "Oh. Okay. Elf woman talk funny. We fight, have fun." With Sam's help, Grik puts his name on the writ of challenge, a bit belated, as the official hides a grin. I was looking forward to fighting Lortavos, too, but this works. Maybe next week Sam can fight the Krenshar.
Emrys Donovan 09-05-05, 07:17 PM	Uther, I sent you a pm about a miniquest idea for Maximus. If possible, could we do it this week?
Emrys Donovan 09-05-05, 08:04 PM	Ok, just so I can make sure everything on my characters is right for this week (yes I know only two can be active until I get some credits), would one or more of you guys mind going over each one, listing anything wrong with them? Maximus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7086692&postcount=435) Felix (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7126370&postcount=447) Victoria (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7144626&postcount=451) Duncan (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7153423) Merrick (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7161984)
Snommelp 09-05-05, 08:17 PM	I don't know psionics, so I can't help there, but I didn't see any problems during my quick once-over.
xanadu 09-05-05, 08:42 PM	Victoria should have 8 HPs (only 2 from constitution). Thats the only thing I saw from a quick look, although I must admit I find some of you choices curious.
Emrys Donovan 09-05-05, 08:53 PM	Victoria should have 8 HPs (only 2 from constitution). Thats the only thing I saw from a quick look, although I must admit I find some of you choices curious. Thanks for the heads up. And what choices do you find curious?
Mind Rogue 09-05-05, 09:06 PM	Maximus: you cannot use most of your monk abilities, including flurry, while wearing your chain shirt. Also, you don't need to say +0 Wis, +0 size and so on: +0 is considered the 'norm'. Victoria: Inertial Armor doesn't stack with your chain shirt. I'd pick Force Screen instead. I also find it odd that you bumped charisma up so high when psions are Int based, although your telepath skills sure can use it. Felix: I don't know exactly how much use you're going to get out of cleave in the arena, since most fights will likely be 1 on 1, while the rest of them your other foe is likely to not be next to you. Duncan: AC bonus from bucker is only +1. I also am kind of curious why you chose to buy 2 or 4 potions of Bulls Str or Cats Grace or the like for a character, where they will really only be able to use one a match. You could either choose to use the money to buy something else now, then buy another potion with your winnings, or else you could simply stash the money and buy another one later. By having several here now, you ar cutting into your ability to change direction if you come up with a better strategy.
Emrys Donovan 09-05-05, 09:46 PM	Maximus: you cannot use most of your monk abilities, including flurry, while wearing your chain shirt. Also, you don't need to say +0 Wis, +0 size and so on: +0 is considered the 'norm'. Victoria: Inertial Armor doesn't stack with your chain shirt. I'd pick Force Screen instead. I also find it odd that you bumped charisma up so high when psions are Int based, although your telepath skills sure can use it. Felix: I don't know exactly how much use you're going to get out of cleave in the arena, since most fights will likely be 1 on 1, while the rest of them your other foe is likely to not be next to you. Duncan: AC bonus from bucker is only +1. I also am kind of curious why you chose to buy 2 or 4 potions of Bulls Str or Cats Grace or the like for a character, where they will really only be able to use one a match. You could either choose to use the money to buy something else now, then buy another potion with your winnings, or else you could simply stash the money and buy another one later. By having several here now, you ar cutting into your ability to change direction if you come up with a better strategy. I list the extra AC stuff so I don't forget about it, especially the Wis mod for Maximus. As for why I bought multiples of the mod potions, if I feel I need anything before this Wednesday (or whenever the deadline to edit is), I'll switch it in. If I don't I'll use any winnings to get anything I may need afterwards. If I don't have enough, I'll save up. And yea, those skils are the reason why I bumped up Cha. The Cleave feat for Felix is for quests and/or campaigns, and I think I'm going to revamp him a little. Thanks for checking over my characters.
Snommelp 09-05-05, 09:50 PM	You don't need Cleave for Improved Sunder, just Power Attack...
Emrys Donovan 09-05-05, 11:34 PM	Ah, you are correct. Ok, edited my post. And now, for the new Felix (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7126370&postcount=447). Check him out and let me know what you guys think.
Ribking 09-05-05, 11:46 PM	I was looking through a few of the Gladiators listed and came across a feat called "Knockdown". Until reading that character's feat list, I had never heard of it. So I decided to look it up in the SRD...but it isn't in there. I remember the rules stating that the SRD covered all the rules in the CoCo. So what gives? Are there other allowed resources? Is there somewhere I can go and look up other Feats that are not in the SRD?
McJarvis 09-05-05, 11:47 PM	I was looking through a few of the Gladiators listed and came across a feat called "Knockdown". Until reading that character's feat list, I had never heard of it. So I decided to look it up in the SRD...but it isn't in there. I remember the rules stating that the SRD covered all the rules in the CoCo. So what gives? Are there other allowed resources? Is there somewhere I can go and look up other Feats that are not in the SRD? Check the divine section of the SRD. There are some feats/etc there.
King Uther 09-06-05, 01:10 AM	@Emrys Yeah, this week is fine.
Pauper 09-06-05, 04:00 AM	Looking at the difference between fighting un-optimized monsters and heavily optimized PCs, it seems the monster fights are much easier ways to gain money and XP. How do I get in on that action? -- Pauper
TelinArtho 09-06-05, 09:54 AM	@Pauper - they are random - and they are not always a cake walk. Look at Aeryn vs the Hound Archon... he had NO chance...
Tellish_of_Ket 09-06-05, 11:09 AM	Just a reminder this week, that I'm making myself available for quests and mini-quests. Please PM me with your requests. -ToK
michael_noah 09-06-05, 12:15 PM	Well, I finally made a character. I'd love any error checkers - or even better, advice givers - to have a look. Here he is. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7113930&postcount=444) I know nothing about psionics, so if someone has advice on power choices, crafting choices, etc. I'd love to hear them.
NiQil 09-06-05, 12:23 PM	Well, I finally made a character. I'd love any error checkers - or even better, advice givers - to have a look. Here he is. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7113930&postcount=444) I know nothing about psionics, so if someone has advice on power choices, crafting choices, etc. I'd love to hear them. With regard to your powers...why Control Light? With Crystal Shard being your only damage-dealing power, you may want to consider dropping Control light and adding Energy Ray and/or Mind Thrust. I guess it depends on whether you plan on being a battle caster, or using your PP strictly to buff. If strictly to buff, then I would probably recommend one of the Precognition powers (offensive or defensive) instead. Also, power selection would depend somewhat on whether this is for the most part an arena character or a quest/campaign character.
michael_noah 09-06-05, 12:27 PM	With regard to your powers...why Control Light? With Crystal Shard being your only damage-dealing power, you may want to consider dropping Control light and adding Energy Ray and/or Mind Thrust. I guess it depends on whether you plan on being a battle caster, or using your PP strictly to buff. If strictly to buff, then I would probably recommend one of the Precognition powers (offensive or defensive) instead. Also, power selection would depend somewhat on whether this is for the most part an arena character or a quest/campaign character. I can't really see a reason to get energy ray in addition to crystal shard. Mind thrust would be worth it for enemies with higher ACs and lower saves... I chose control light because if my opponent doesn't have darkvision, it's effectively Invisibility, especially for when I need to run away. I'd say the character is most likely going to primarilly be an arena character. For now.
Pittbull 09-06-05, 12:35 PM	Well, I finally made a character. I'd love any error checkers - or even better, advice givers - to have a look. Here he is. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7113930&postcount=444) I know nothing about psionics, so if someone has advice on power choices, crafting choices, etc. I'd love to hear them. Why do you take a light crossbow, since he is an outsider, he is proficient with martial weapons like longbows and so on....
NiQil 09-06-05, 12:37 PM	I can't really see a reason to get energy ray in addition to crystal shard. Mind thrust would be worth it for enemies with higher ACs and lower saves... I chose control light because if my opponent doesn't have darkvision, it's effectively Invisibility, especially for when I need to run away. I'd say the character is most likely going to primarilly be an arena character. For now. That makes sense. I would probably recommend, then, to either get yourself some more damage dealing powerstones, or make sure you can deal damage either with archery or melee, since it looks like most of your power points will be used for buffing. Also, and this is more my disdain for level adjustments than anything else, but I would probably recommend going with gray elf instead of tiefling. Get the same bonus to int and dex that you have now and get rid of that level adj, which would in turn let you get to level 3 and 2nd level powers, giving you that many more power points. Again, just a thought. Your mileage may vary.
michael_noah 09-06-05, 12:48 PM	Ah! free martial weapons. I totally forgot. Thank you. There's a very particular reason that I'm being a teifling. Gray elf just wouldn't cut it.
Ribking 09-06-05, 12:49 PM	Hello again....Can someone help me with this issue? After my first week, I found some pretty important things I would like to change about my Gladiator - Ability Scores. I would like to slightly adjust two of my ability scores (still within the 36 point-buy rule). Is this a possibility? Would it be possible to just start the character over?
Sindorin 09-06-05, 12:51 PM	Hello again....Can someone help me with this issue? After my first week, I found some pretty important things I would like to change about my Gladiator - Ability Scores. I would like to slightly adjust two of my ability scores (still within the 36 point-buy rule). Is this a possibility? Would it be possible to just start the character over? Hehe, I just replied to you in the concerns thread... I would remake it because then you can adjust what equipment you buy too.
michael_noah 09-06-05, 01:01 PM	I wonder, does that mean that Tieflings are proficient in light armor and shields as well?
Sindorin 09-06-05, 01:05 PM	If it says in the Outsider type description, then they probably are...
NiQil 09-06-05, 01:28 PM	If it says in the Outsider type description, then they probably are... Outsider Type: An outsider is at least partially composed of the essence (but not necessarily the material) of some plane other than the Material Plane. Some creatures start out as some other type and become outsiders when they attain a higher (or lower) state of spiritual existence. Features: An outsider has the following features. —8-sided Hit Dice. —Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (as fighter). —Good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves. —Skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die. Traits: An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry). —Darkvision out to 60 feet. —Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. —Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry. —Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor. —Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep. Hope that helps...
Sindorin 09-06-05, 03:08 PM	Ah, so yes, if you give the outsider any sort of armor, it is automatically proficient per the RAW. WTF silly rulez
NiQil 09-06-05, 03:16 PM	Ah, so yes, if you give the outsider any sort of armor, it is automatically proficient per the RAW. WTF silly rulez Ah...no...not exactly. If the entry in the Monster Manual lists it with armor, then it is proficient with what ever type of armor is listed, along with all lesser types, and is also automatically proficient with shields if it is proficient with any kind of armor. If you give your outsider heavy armor, but it is only listed in the MM with light armor, then it is NOT proficient with the heavy armor you are giving it.
Luni 09-06-05, 03:25 PM	I've always wondered why the Nessian Hellhound has armor Prof, but the regular one doens't
Sindorin 09-06-05, 03:37 PM	Ah...no...not exactly. If the entry in the Monster Manual lists it with armor, then it is proficient with what ever type of armor is listed, along with all lesser types, and is also automatically proficient with shields if it is proficient with any kind of armor. If you give your outsider heavy armor, but it is only listed in the MM with light armor, then it is NOT proficient with the heavy armor you are giving it. I know, I know... I was merely commenting that they should have worded it like that instead of making it very ambiguous.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-06-05, 03:45 PM	Ah, so yes, if you give the outsider any sort of armor, it is automatically proficient per the RAW. WTF silly rulez Nope. I think you are misreading it Sin. It has to have the armor listed in it's MM stats to be proficient in it. The tiefling is only proficient with light armor, and thus automatically proficient with shields. Other than tower shield of course. -ToK *EDIT...OK, i see i was beaten to the punch again. :(
Gonbow 09-06-05, 03:45 PM	I've always wondered why the Nessian Hellhound has armor Prof, but the regular one doens't Obviously, it's been trained for war! :rolleyes: Just kidding. The SRD is taking forever to load or I'd offer a more speculative answer.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-06-05, 03:49 PM	I've always wondered why the Nessian Hellhound has armor Prof, but the regular one doens't As an outsider, whatever armor it's MM is listed as wearing it is automatically proficient in. Other than that, there is no real reason. It's not fiendish, it's feats are all accounted for. I'm inclined to seriously believe what Gonbow just said. "it's trained for war". -ToK
Luni 09-06-05, 03:53 PM	The revision of a previous character is up Here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7175526&postcount=454) Beside the fact I'm a few credits short, and haven't linked the +3 Periapt, does anything seem out of the ordinary?
Emrys Donovan 09-06-05, 04:03 PM	Ah, you are correct. Ok, edited my post. And now, for the new Felix (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7126370&postcount=447). Check him out and let me know what you guys think. Anything get messed up when I redid Felix?
TelinArtho 09-06-05, 04:33 PM	This should be interesting - especially depending on what King Uther decides on. To all of us heading on the Drums of War campaign - some thoughts from a party member: 1. Sir Valkin is a mounted Fighter/Paladin who can move at absurd speeds (90ft speed). Beware all his enemies who do not have cover to block charges... 2. Ellorian Saenelle (whose name I will deliberately misspell because it gives me personal pleasure...) is an Archer - but might have to do his fighting from within the water - as he can only survive for 18 hours before suffocating... 3. Mine... Mini... Minesbiggarinyers (oh whatever your name is) is a kobold wilder. Our sole source of non-front end fighting power... and she's level 1... 4. King Uther's shapeshifting construction page. At first I saw it was another ranged fighter, but now it seems to be either a psionic character or a druid. Make up your mind will you? At first glance, we could be hurting for some healing. Valkin is down to 175gp, but he might be persuaded to sell his second suit of armor to pick up a Wand of CLW. Once he reaches Lvl 4, he'll have 12hp of healing through lay on hands per day. For melee strength, we've currently only got Sir Valkin really. But that's fine because ranged support is quite good. Mini's powers are pretty short range though - so that may prove to be a problem. Depending on what Uther decides to use - we could have a well rounded party with no rogue (not needed in my opinion anyway), or we could be very fighter-heavy - which isn't the end of the world either (well it might be if we fail...). For spells though, and healing in particular, we could be in a bad way. I'd rather not pick up a wand - mostly because I like being able to choose between armors - but if no other alternative is presented, I might have to use that route for salvation. Any other ideas? Also, welcome to the campaign (to myself, Altaris13, Ellorian Saenelle and King Uther). To all who will be watching - enjoy. And special thanks to Kaigan for running it. /d
Mind Rogue 09-06-05, 04:37 PM	Anya Starfire has entered the fray.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-06-05, 04:54 PM	Anya Starfire has entered the fray. See the Prison Thread please. :D -ToK
Altaris13 09-06-05, 04:59 PM	This should be interesting - especially depending on what King Uther decides on. To all of us heading on the Drums of War campaign - some thoughts from a party member: 1. Sir Valkin is a mounted Fighter/Paladin who can move at absurd speeds (90ft speed). Beware all his enemies who do not have cover to block charges... 2. Ellorian Saenelle (whose name I will deliberately misspell because it gives me personal pleasure...) is an Archer - but might have to do his fighting from within the water - as he can only survive for 18 hours before suffocating... 3. Mine... Mini... Minesbiggarinyers (oh whatever your name is) is a kobold wilder. Our sole source of non-front end fighting power... and she's level 1... 4. King Uther's shapeshifting construction page. At first I saw it was another ranged fighter, but now it seems to be either a psionic character or a druid. Make up your mind will you? At first glance, we could be hurting for some healing. Valkin is down to 175gp, but he might be persuaded to sell his second suit of armor to pick up a Wand of CLW. Once he reaches Lvl 4, he'll have 12hp of healing through lay on hands per day. For melee strength, we've currently only got Sir Valkin really. But that's fine because ranged support is quite good. Mini's powers are pretty short range though - so that may prove to be a problem. Depending on what Uther decides to use - we could have a well rounded party with no rogue (not needed in my opinion anyway), or we could be very fighter-heavy - which isn't the end of the world either (well it might be if we fail...). For spells though, and healing in particular, we could be in a bad way. I'd rather not pick up a wand - mostly because I like being able to choose between armors - but if no other alternative is presented, I might have to use that route for salvation. Any other ideas? Also, welcome to the campaign (to myself, Altaris13, Ellorian Saenelle and King Uther). To all who will be watching - enjoy. And special thanks to Kaigan for running it. /d Er? Did I miss an official post somewhere? I am definately looking for to this campaign. It will be a wonderful opportunity to RP with these awesome people, both the DM and my fellow players. I'll definately have to purchase some form of healing, at least for myself since I've got little. Another idea though is to pool funds? I'd be willing to fork over my 300 gp towards the purchase of a Wand. Is that allowed? Anyway, I know Mini is only level 1 class-wise, but she's not a bad shot with that crossbow either. I second Telins thanks Kaigan. Definately a special thanks for running this campaign.
TelinArtho 09-06-05, 05:10 PM	I don't think you've missed an official post, but I haven't heard otherwise from Kaigan - so I'm being presumptuous on thanking him. However, even if we didn't start this week, I think it is due that he be thanked for setting it up soon regardless. Elloriun has expressed interest in helping purchase a wand as well, so I think we should have no problem getting one and I imagine that Kaigan will allow us to do so once the campaign is started (since I think we're starting in Gladius). As to the rest of my money, I'm still looking over what would be a good set of choices. This might include picking up a few more weapons (because you can never have enough) or perhaps some expendables that would be useful to him. I was really hoping to advance before the campaign started, just so I could have that 12hp of healing per day - but I guess 6 will have to do for now... /d
Snommelp 09-06-05, 05:19 PM	Does anyone remember what the formula was for figuring out Power Ratings?
TelinArtho 09-06-05, 05:20 PM	Isn't it still in the characters thread? I'll go check.
Altaris13 09-06-05, 05:27 PM	You're not that far off from leveling Telin. You might want to put "ready for Sept 7th OR Campaign: Drums of War" in your character title. Wouldn't want to not get paired if the campaign doesn't start on time. I suppose I should buy some rations too... You mentioned before about using your mule for gear? Mini's a weakling. :D
Shaken, not Stunned 09-06-05, 05:30 PM	Hi. I thought I would say something here. I am questlording now. I am trying to stick to lower-level multi-person quests initially, but have no reservations about running high level, high psionic were-dragon half-celestial cyborg illithids or the like, so send a PM if you are looking to go on a quest.
NiQil 09-06-05, 05:34 PM	You're not that far off from leveling Telin. You might want to put "ready for Sept 7th OR Campaign: Drums of War" in your character title. Wouldn't want to not get paired if the campaign doesn't start on time. I suppose I should buy some rations too... You mentioned before about using your mule for gear? Mini's a weakling. :D LOL that would be utterly hilarious for you all to load up on gear and forget food....methinks that mule and Foreman would start to look mighty tasty after a week or so of not eating :rofl:
Altaris13 09-06-05, 05:39 PM	LOL that would be utterly hilarious for you all to load up on gear and forget food....methinks that mule and Foreman would start to look mighty tasty after a week or so of not eating :rofl: :heehee: That's terrible man, just terrible. I'll eat the elf first. /He's/ a rare delicacy. :D
TelinArtho 09-06-05, 05:40 PM	Yes, Sir Valkin has a mule to use if anyone wants to. The mule is already moving at 20ft instead of 30ft, because of Sir Valkin buying 3 weeks of Feed for Foreman (no its not for the mule...). At 10 pounds per day, it adds up quickly. If we determine we need to move faster, I might ditch the mule and get a light horse to carry stuff instead - we'll have to see how things go... And yes, don't forget the essentials: extra weapons, clothing and food (and in Ellurion's case - water...). I should update if the campaign doesn't start - but I'm confident that it will. /d
nightbanegod 09-06-05, 06:39 PM	just double checking that i can scribe my own scrolls at whatever caster lvl i currently am without having to pay °s. its a feat to be able to do so so it shouldnt be a problem
Emrys Donovan 09-06-05, 07:23 PM	For a rogues weapon proficiency for shortbow, does that include the composite shortbow?
NiQil 09-06-05, 07:26 PM	So I'm sitting here bored at work, and I got a silly idea in my head that would make for one of the more off the wall characters around...but I was very seriously contemplating rolling in a higher-level character who sole weapon is a Rod of Wonder. Anyone know off the top of their head what level it would need to be to afford a 25,000 gp purchase? LOL
NiQil 09-06-05, 07:28 PM	For a rogues weapon proficiency for shortbow, does that include the composite shortbow? To the best of my knowledge, yes....shortbows/longbows and their composite counterparts are interchangeable as far as proficiencies are concerned, to my knowledge. I'd have to check the SRD to be sure.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-06-05, 07:32 PM	For a rogues weapon proficiency for shortbow, does that include the composite shortbow? yes they are. completely interchangeable. -ToK
Snommelp 09-06-05, 07:35 PM	So I'm sitting here bored at work, and I got a silly idea in my head that would make for one of the more off the wall characters around...but I was very seriously contemplating rolling in a higher-level character who sole weapon is a Rod of Wonder. Anyone know off the top of their head what level it would need to be to afford a 25,000 gp purchase? LOL 25K? You're looking at level 8, minimum. At that level, you'd only have 3,000 to work with after that hefty purchase.
NiQil 09-06-05, 07:38 PM	25K? You're looking at level 8, minimum. At that level, you'd only have 3,000 to work with after that hefty purchase. Ouch...ok...so probably level 9 then to be functional. You have to admit....his battles would be the stuff of legends. "The gladiator takes out his magical rod, fires it.....and watches 600 butterflies spew forth at his enemy. Cursing his bad luck, he tries again, only to detect thoughts on his opponent...most of which consist of 'Where the heck did all these friggin butterflies come from?'"
Emrys Donovan 09-06-05, 07:58 PM	Sweet. Ok, Kristina (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7177934&postcount=456) is up and ready to be gawked over. ;)
nightbanegod 09-06-05, 09:10 PM	Ouch...ok...so probably level 9 then to be functional. You have to admit....his battles would be the stuff of legends. "The gladiator takes out his magical rod, fires it.....and watches 600 butterflies spew forth at his enemy. Cursing his bad luck, he tries again, only to detect thoughts on his opponent...most of which consist of 'Where the heck did all these friggin butterflies come from?'" i would LOVE to pitlord those fights and would narrate to my hearts content
Mind Rogue 09-06-05, 09:36 PM	That sure would be funny, but I don't know how functional it would be. Most of the abilities of the rod aren't going to help you at all, while the others will not likely be much better. Delusion, Summon Grass, Grow Leaves, and Color Change have absolutely no beneficial effect (total 14%), while Faerie Fire, Detect Thoughts, Gust of Wind, Summon Butterflies, and Heavy Rain are circumstantial at best (21 %), Reduce Wielder, Enlarge Person, and Etherealness would need to be prepared for, as they are beneficial if you can take advantage of them, but detrimental otherwise (11 %), while the rest of them range from helping you a little (such as by Slowing your target) to a lot (such as by turning them to stone). Probably the best thing you can hope for is to roll a 98+ and turn your foe to stone, although fireball and lightning bolt wouldn't hurt, albeit they would deal mediocre damage for this level. The question is, if you roll gems, do you get to keep them after the fight is over?
NiQil 09-06-05, 09:49 PM	That sure would be funny, but I don't know how functional it would be. Most of the abilities of the rod aren't going to help you at all, while the others will not likely be much better. Delusion, Summon Grass, Grow Leaves, and Color Change have absolutely no beneficial effect (total 14%), while Faerie Fire, Detect Thoughts, Gust of Wind, Summon Butterflies, and Heavy Rain are circumstantial at best (21 %), Reduce Wielder, Enlarge Person, and Etherealness would need to be prepared for, as they are beneficial if you can take advantage of them, but detrimental otherwise (11 %), while the rest of them range from helping you a little (such as by Slowing your target) to a lot (such as by turning them to stone). Probably the best thing you can hope for is to roll a 98+ and turn your foe to stone, although fireball and lightning bolt wouldn't hurt, albeit they would deal mediocre damage for this level. The question is, if you roll gems, do you get to keep them after the fight is over? Heh....I'd be more inclined to try and keep the summoned rhino LOL. We actually had an elf in a game way back when that had one of these in play as her primary weapon....and it proved useful in almost every situation due to some extremely good rolling. We needed to get inside a gate, and wouldn't you know it, she managed to summon the rhino. We needed a way to escape the BBEG, and wouldn't you know it, 600 butterflies spewed forth and blinded him. And do you have any idea how useful it is to have that rod spew out stone to flesh when getting a random encounter to face a stone golem? LOL
Ribking 09-06-05, 10:09 PM	Alrighty... I just remade Greefe (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7081407) A slight change in my WIS and INT which results in different skill points. Not too big of a change all in all. Is there someone that I need to send a PM to? I left a large note at the top of the character....hopefully it's noticable enough.
NiQil 09-06-05, 10:15 PM	Alrighty... I just remade Greefe (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7081407) A slight change in my WIS and INT which results in different skill points. Not too big of a change all in all. Is there someone that I need to send a PM to? I left a large note at the top of the character....hopefully it's noticable enough. Send a PM to Pitlords aka Caterane. He's the GM. Send it to the Pitlords name and let him know what you did. You will want to remove any record of your old character, since this is technically a new one (such as fight records, past expenditures, etc)....basically treat it as if you are introducing this character for the very first time.
nightbanegod 09-06-05, 10:25 PM	ive got a question about the ANIMATE DEAD spell. since it automatically gives yhou controll of the undead ... do they count against your exp gains. i would think that they dont since techincally its a companion thats granted via a spell ( a class feature) that they should not affect the % of Exp you get
Gonbow 09-06-05, 10:32 PM	ive got a question about the ANIMATE DEAD spell. since it automatically gives yhou controll of the undead ... do they count against your exp gains. i would think that they dont since techincally its a companion thats granted via a spell ( a class feature) that they should not affect the % of Exp you get They do. Just the same way planar allies/etc (also from spells) do. The definition of a class feature that gives you an ally is a feature that's /only function/ is to give you the ally. The wizard's ability to get a familiar is just that. So is the paladin's ability to get a special horse... That is all they can be used for.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-06-05, 10:32 PM	ive got a question about the ANIMATE DEAD spell. since it automatically gives yhou controll of the undead ... do they count against your exp gains. i would think that they dont since techincally its a companion thats granted via a spell ( a class feature) that they should not affect the % of Exp you get Yes they do. Though casting divine spells are a class feature, the animate dead is not. If you bring extra allies, above and beyond what is stated in your class description as alloying, it will cost you xp. -ToK
nightbanegod 09-06-05, 11:13 PM	any beef with an animated HYDRA corpse? on making a skeleton i could make a hydra with 7 heads into a skeleton and still use him in the arena since his skeleton CR would only be 3 as i would be an ECL 7 character
Tellish_of_Ket 09-06-05, 11:29 PM	any beef with an animated HYDRA corpse? on making a skeleton i could make a hydra with 7 heads into a skeleton and still use him in the arena since his skeleton CR would only be 3 as i would be an ECL 7 character Nope. No beef. As long as you have the clerical strength to pull it off. You'll have to kill the 7 headed hydra first in mini-quest though. *EDIT...and dont' forget to buy your gem. -ToK
nightbanegod 09-06-05, 11:43 PM	Nope. No beef. As long as you have the clerical strength to pull it off. You'll have to kill the 7 headed hydra first in mini-quest though. *EDIT...and dont' forget to buy your gem. -ToK could be a challenge for a 5th lvl cleric to take down a 7 headed hydra... im kinda scared about it but ill deal im thinking HIGH DC doom followed up with a bestow curse.. would help and certainly curb the beasts effectiveneses... Would make an awesome mount though :schemes: would the 20% miss chance from blur and the 20% miss chance for being 5' away in an obscuring mist stack?
Maraxus 09-07-05, 12:14 AM	Right, Hydras are evil, as long as you have no real blaster mage and a real good tank :) And no, blur is a concealment-miss chance, too. I'm quite sure no percentil-miss chances stack.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-07-05, 12:20 AM	could be a challenge for a 5th lvl cleric to take down a 7 headed hydra... im kinda scared about it but ill deal 5th level cleric? Ouch..i thought you said you were 7th. I guess you're planning on making an ECL 7 character? -Tok
xanadu 09-07-05, 01:16 AM	Surely the wisest sages are descending upon gladius to comprehend how the local economy subsists laregly upon the following nefarious "professions" The Pulverizer - demolitions :plotting: The Phantom Lord - raising hell Shazzelin the Gray - torturer :rofl: Vakkor - vermin herding Dark Lord of the Sith - hunt down and destroy the Jedi Archie Longbow - bounty hunter Quentus Doomshadow - espionage agent :thinks: Tatyana Malvont - espionage agent :shocked: Victoria "Nico" Nicodemeus - deep cover agent :crazy: Felix Drake - bounty hunter The Harvester - soul harvesting :devil: Zamier - butcher :D
Luni 09-07-05, 01:23 AM	What? Nothing on Shakari the waitress who serves beer to all of them when the year end party is being held, and learns all their dark secrets?
Gonbow 09-07-05, 01:25 AM	Or Santos Fi'Corma's flourishing cook house? Best fried steak in Gladius, or your meal server will be personally pulverized at your table by the chef.
Usurpator 09-07-05, 01:37 AM	Shazzelin the Gray - torturer :rofl: Actually, Shazzelin was thinking of ordering a masterwork Iron Maiden with Yasha Tankou, who has Craft(Torture Devices), and is called the Mistress of Steel as well. Can't go wrong with that, just trying to fit into the local economy. ;) EDIT: Oh, and yeah, with Cha 4 being a torturer is one of the few professions that your clients won't run away from you.
Luni 09-07-05, 02:00 AM	So, how much does a altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture dedicated to your deity cost? And, could I make it portable by loading it onto a cart?
KerlanRayne 09-07-05, 05:18 AM	If I have an extended level 1 power at ML 3 would it cost 75 gp or 150 gp? I don't know if metapsionics count as augmentation for the new pricing rules. KerlanRayne
sloisel 09-07-05, 05:43 AM	So, how much does a altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture dedicated to your deity cost? And, could I make it portable by loading it onto a cart? I know what you're thinking, but I think the words "permanent fixture" in the spell would preclude anything that could be moved.
sloisel 09-07-05, 05:46 AM	Yes they do. Though casting divine spells are a class feature, the animate dead is not. If you bring extra allies, above and beyond what is stated in your class description as alloying, it will cost you xp. I've been wondering about this, by the way. For an evil cleric, is rebuke/control undead a "class feature"? It does state in your class description how many HDs of undead you can control. Sébastien Loisel
sloisel 09-07-05, 05:49 AM	Hey everyone! I'm collecting ambiguities over in this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=488742), which I intend to eventually forward to the sage. If you can think of other ambiguities (and please check all sources to make sure they really are ambiguous!), append them to the thread or send them to me via PM. Thanks! Sébastien Loisel
nightbanegod 09-07-05, 05:54 AM	I've been wondering about this, by the way. For an evil cleric, is rebuke/control undead a "class feature"? It does state in your class description how many HDs of undead you can control. Sébastien Loisel as well as how many HD you can animate with the animate dead spell... making it nigh impossible for a "necromancer" wizard to ever have under his controll more HD of monsters than an evil cleric whos animated a few corpses i was amused when i did the math and it all worked out so that a friend of mine with his 10th lvl cleric could have almost twice as many undead as my 10th lvl necromancer wizard... i was :weep:
Altaris13 09-07-05, 08:24 AM	Zamier - butcher :D I'm glad that someone besides myself appreciates a little subtlety. ;)
Oldmangray 09-07-05, 08:26 AM	i was wondering can the psionic feat *psionic fist* be used with a soulknifes mindblade? i was just wondering if it flys.
Cerebus13 09-07-05, 08:27 AM	If I have an extended level 1 power at ML 3 would it cost 75 gp or 150 gp? I don't know if metapsionics count as augmentation for the new pricing rules. KerlanRayneOnly augmenting raises the price according to the CoCo houserule, and then it only gets raised for every 2 levels that you augment it.
Vathelokai 09-07-05, 08:33 AM	i was wondering can the psionic feat *psionic fist* be used with a soulknifes mindblade? i was just wondering if it flys. I think since the soulknife is considered a weapon for most purposes, you have to get psionic weapon (or whatever the melee version of the feat is called).
Altaris13 09-07-05, 08:40 AM	What Vath said. It is psionic weapon. @Cat: Re: Zamier, can I drop the 1 rank in Ride and add it to Profession? Please and thank you. I missed the fact that you need 5 ranks to earn additional monies.
NiQil 09-07-05, 12:32 PM	If you are carrying a light shield, since you can hold other things in that same hand (but not wield weapons), does that allow you to use that hand to cast spells or use a wand or drink a potion?
Altaris13 09-07-05, 12:58 PM	If you are carrying a light shield, since you can hold other things in that same hand (but not wield weapons), does that allow you to use that hand to cast spells or use a wand or drink a potion? Well, a wand is a weapon-like object, so I'd guess no? Potions, I believe can officially be used by your shield hand. However, I would definately not allow casting with a shield hand. After all, what is a weapon for but attacking? Since casting requires even more deft & articulate movements than swinging a weapon, well, like I said, definately no casting with your shield hand.
Luni 09-07-05, 01:03 PM	Of course, he could put his weapon into his shield hand, and then cast a spell with his remaining hand. He loses his Shield Bonus and can't attack with his weapon while having it in his shield hand.
TelinArtho 09-07-05, 01:07 PM	@Luni - just for holding an item in your shield hand still allows you your shield bonus. As to what I suggest - hold a scroll in your shield hand and cast with your other hand. Or - get a buckler and stop worrying about it... I'm not sure about the wand - but I'd probably say no you can't use it.
Luni 09-07-05, 01:10 PM	Advanced Creature: 4 armed 3HD Sahauagin Size/Type: Medium Monstrous Humanoid (Aquatic) Hit Dice: 3d8+3 (16 hp) Initiative: +1 Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), swim 60 ft. Armor Class: 16 (+1 Dex, +5 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 15 Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+5 Attack: Talon +5 melee (1d4+2) or trident +5 melee (1d8+3) or heavy crossbow +4 ranged (1d10/19-20) Full Attack: Trident +5 melee (1d8+3) and bite +3 melee (1d4+1)and 3 talons +3 melee (1d4+1); or 4 talons +5 melee (1d4+2) and bite +3 melee (1d4+1); or 2 heavy crossbow +4 ranged (1d10/19-20) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Blood frenzy, rake 1d4+1 Special Qualities: Blindsense 30 ft., darkvision 60 ft., freshwater sensitivity, light blindness, speak with sharks, water dependent Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +4 Abilities: Str 14, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 9 Skills: Handle Animal +4*, Hide +6*, Listen +6*, Profession (hunter) +1*, Ride +3, Spot +6*, Survival +1* Feats: Great Fortitude, MultiattackB, Multiweapon Fighting Challenge Rating: 2 Treasure: Standard Alignment: Usually lawful evil Advancement: 3-5 HD (Medium), 6-10 HD (Large), or by character class Level Adjustment: +2 (+3 if four-armed) DOes anything look wrong? It should cost 2° as well.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-07-05, 01:31 PM	If you are carrying a light shield, since you can hold other things in that same hand (but not wield weapons), does that allow you to use that hand to cast spells or use a wand or drink a potion? Yes, you can cast spells. It's the old "sword and board" technique that many war clerics use. No you cannot utilize a wand, as it is a "Weapon-like" object. Meaning it would follow the same restrictions. However, as i see mentioned about scrolls, as long as the other hand is free, you can hold a scroll in your shield hand and still cast the spell. Or vice-versa. Unfortunately there isn't anything written about still maintaining your shield bonus...or losing it for that matter as well. It's simply a question of semantics. -ToK
Mind Rogue 09-07-05, 01:33 PM	You can actually hold weapons in your light shield hand (and you don't lose your shield bonus since it doesn't say that you lose it when holding something). However, you cannot wield the weapon (which means no attacking or threatening the area around you with it). I don't know if you could use a wand like this, but I'd assume not because it would be similar to wielding a weapon. I also believe the FAQ suggests that you don't have enough access with a light shield to cast with that hand although a buckler explicitly leaves you total control with the hand.
TelinArtho 09-07-05, 01:34 PM	Didn't know we were allowed to cast spells with a shield hand when wielding a light shield... that helps Kraegin out a lot since he never draws his weapon pretty much because of it... Wish I had known earlier /d
sloisel 09-07-05, 01:58 PM	Didn't know we were allowed to cast spells with a shield hand when wielding a light shield... that helps Kraegin out a lot since he never draws his weapon pretty much because of it... Wish I had known earlier /d FAQ page 5 says you can cast with your buckler hand but not your light shield hand. Sébastien Loisel
TelinArtho 09-07-05, 02:05 PM	Thanks for pointing that out. Come to think of it - I think Kraegin will change up shields so I don't have to worry about this anymore...
Emrys Donovan 09-07-05, 04:19 PM	And now, for the new Felix (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7126370&postcount=447). Anything get messed up when I redid [him]?*poke* Sweet. Ok, Kristina (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7177934&postcount=456) is up and ready to be gawked over. ;)*poke*
Altaris13 09-07-05, 04:27 PM	I know this has been addressed before, but I just had a thought. A lot of the more dedicated people here have characters on campaigns, as well as gladiators in the Arena. Campaigns cost 5 credits just to join, but also they will probably cost an extra credit a week if you want to keep 2 gladiators open for the Coliseum. So, here's my suggestion for debate, trash talking, what ever. :P Each player may have one character on campaign in addition to two gladiators active in the Arena at no extra credit cost. Some of my reasoning: A lot of my fellows here have mentioned trying to amass credits of late so they can craft characters of high(er) ECLs. If we pitlords (particularly the newer ones like myself & NBG) begin to take on three or four fights a week, we'll be (a) taking on a lot (imo) and (b) taking fights from others who may need that extra fight just to break even on their number of characters. By doing this, we'll reduce the credit cost (obviously) for those who've already earned the right to be on campaign (ie: paid the 5 credits.) But this will also mean that everyone who is on campaign (which is a lot, if not most of the more experienced & involved players) will be able to continue participating in the Arena to the full standard allotment (2 PCs.) This would also mean that those of us looking to take on extra fights to earn 2 or 3 credits a week can do so without there being a shortage of Arena fights to assign fairly.
Sindorin 09-07-05, 04:39 PM	Excellent, someone finally agrees with me...
Emrys Donovan 09-07-05, 04:45 PM	@ oldmangray Re: Tak His Dex should be 14 if he has a -2 racial and you spent 10 points. And I'm not sure if you can use a medium-sized mindblade, but I'd ask someone else to be sure. Also, Tak can only speak Common. Giant and Draconic are bonus languages, which he would get for every point of int mod he has (which he has none of as of yet). Also, I'd get some healing potions, such as Cure Light Wounds, which cost 50 gp each. Medium Wounds is 300 each.
Sindorin 09-07-05, 05:02 PM	Actually 10 points with a +2 racial bonus would be an 18...
nightbanegod 09-07-05, 05:05 PM	I know this has been addressed before, but I just had a thought. A lot of the more dedicated people here have characters on campaigns, as well as gladiators in the Arena. Campaigns cost 5 credits just to join, but also they will probably cost an extra credit a week if you want to keep 2 gladiators open for the Coliseum. So, here's my suggestion for debate, trash talking, what ever. :P Each player may have one character on campaign in addition to two gladiators active in the Arena at no extra credit cost. Some of my reasoning: A lot of my fellows here have mentioned trying to amass credits of late so they can craft characters of high(er) ECLs. If we pitlords (particularly the newer ones like myself & NBG) begin to take on three or four fights a week, we'll be (a) taking on a lot (imo) and (b) taking fights from others who may need that extra fight just to break even on their number of characters. By doing this, we'll reduce the credit cost (obviously) for those who've already earned the right to be on campaign (ie: paid the 5 credits.) But this will also mean that everyone who is on campaign (which is a lot, if not most of the more experienced & involved players) will be able to continue participating in the Arena to the full standard allotment (2 PCs.) This would also mean that those of us looking to take on extra fights to earn 2 or 3 credits a week can do so without there being a shortage of Arena fights to assign fairly. i second this motion WITH EXTREME ENTHUSIASM ps: thanks for the name dropping Altaris and indeed i totally would love to be running like 4-5 fights a week if i could so i could amass decent amounts of credits that would be put to hard use
Altaris13 09-07-05, 05:10 PM	:D Actually Sindorin, I agree with a lot of what you've had to say. But I've made a fool of myself on the Council thread after a couple of sleepless nights, so I figured I'd refrain from posting there for a while. ;) And no worries, NBG. I appreciate the support, and hopefully enough others will agree with me for Cat to implement. Should I crosspost that over to the council thread? I know Cat is focused on getting the Guild issues resolved (which is where I made an idiot of myself.)
Ellorion Saenelle 09-07-05, 05:12 PM	Actually 10 points with a +2 racial bonus would be an 18... No, its 14. He has a -2racial bonus to dex, not +2. He is a half Giant.
Altaris13 09-07-05, 05:15 PM	No, its 9 points, because he's a half-human and gets nothing! :eek: Sorry, work is making me :looloo:
Sindorin 09-07-05, 05:16 PM	:D Actually Sindorin, I agree with a lot of what you've had to say. But I've made a fool of myself on the Council thread after a couple of sleepless nights, so I figured I'd refrain from posting there for a while. ;) And no worries, NBG. I appreciate the support, and hopefully enough others will agree with me for Cat to implement. Should I crosspost that over to the council thread? I know Cat is focused on getting the Guild issues resolved (which is where I made an idiot of myself.) Yes you should crosspost that with confirmation links to my support as well as NBG's. Once enough support is built, change is possible. I do know that there are some who like the all vs. all fights. I would simply not like them to be randomly assigned, and without the A-B-C-D-A target system... There's a better way, the exp should be treated as if in an evil campaign the party suddenly turns on each other... or something. Either way, any change to those blasted things is for the better. Or you could just keep it simple and cross your post to the council and simply SAY that your motion has been seconded and thirded...
Sindorin 09-07-05, 05:18 PM	No, its 14. He has a -2racial bonus to dex, not +2. He is a half Giant. hehe, I was replying to a post in which the person said +2... my mistake, I probably could have not been lazy and reviewed the character myself... le sigh*
nightbanegod 09-07-05, 05:21 PM	knowing that i could drop my ECL 7 character and put him into a quest right away would be alot more motivating if i knew i could keep WAR and Dalamar fighting in the arena as well... someone has got to put those loose cannons in the arena in thier place (opposable thumbs... sigh)
Emrys Donovan 09-07-05, 05:21 PM	hehe, I was replying to a post in which the person said +2... my mistake, I probably could have not been lazy and reviewed the character myself... le sigh* :embarrass Lol, sorry about that...I use the number pad when I type numbers, and as I don't usually use the "-" button, I seemed to have hit the "+" instead.
nightbanegod 09-07-05, 05:27 PM	off topic: why do you type le sigh* just curious. this guy i know in the fine state of iowa *coughsuckscough* says the same thing fairly often as i recall
Sindorin 09-07-05, 05:28 PM	It's all good. :D Altaris13, if you are worried about making a fool of yourself in the Council, do NOT let that deter you. I was made an Elder not long ago (I don't think that status stands anymore because I left for a bit) basically because that was exactly what I did - I shot anything and everything out there. I got yelled at the first week I was posting in the Council of Elders thread, but I didn't let it bother me (instead people kidnapped me from the CoCo). People may not think everything you have to say is glittering like gold, but you eventually say something that someone likes and improves... everyone has great ideas, they all should be thrown out there. It's called 'workshopping' :) Plus it's nice to have this tavern to test your ideas first before posting in Council... Speaking of Council, what happened to the House of Commons!? I'm sad, my house got burned down... :raincloud
NiQil 09-07-05, 05:31 PM	It's all good. :D Altaris13, if you are worried about making a fool of yourself in the Council, do NOT let that deter you. I was made an Elder not long ago (I don't think that status stands anymore because I left for a bit) basically because that was exactly what I did - I shot anything and everything out there. I got yelled at the first week I was posting in the Council of Elders thread, but I didn't let it bother me (instead people kidnapped me from the CoCo). People may not think everything you have to say is glittering like gold, but you eventually say something that someone likes and improves... everyone has great ideas, they all should be thrown out there. It's called 'workshopping' :) Plus it's nice to have this tavern to test your ideas first before posting in Council... Speaking of Council, what happened to the House of Commons!? I'm sad, my house got burned down... :raincloud Cat dissolved the House of Commons and the Elder thread and combined them into the Council thread. Quite a lot changed in the short time you were gone....you should take a run through the Rules thread again sometime.
Sindorin 09-07-05, 05:34 PM	off topic: why do you type just curious. this guy i know in the fine state of iowa *coughsuckscough* says the same thing fairly often as i recall I actually started doing that recently by habit... I'm not sure why. It is very useful because things seem very hopeless nowadays - all these rules and changes here that I don't like - *le sigh* is, I suppose, intended to mean "I give up" or "we'll see about that" or "hopeless" or "I will have my revenge..." Maybe not that last one, but you get my general intentions. I didn't realize other people did it. Funny... The State of Iowa is definitely a "state"... :cool:
Sindorin 09-07-05, 05:35 PM	Cat dissolved the House of Commons and the Elder thread and combined them into the Council thread. Quite a lot changed in the short time you were gone....you should take a run through the Rules thread again sometime. Wow Cat sure has been busy changing stuff around and making ugly Pitlords avatars. Was any of this voted on?!?!
nightbanegod 09-07-05, 05:38 PM	Wow Cat sure has been busy changing stuff around and making ugly Pitlords avatars. Was any of this voted on?!?! its a bit more like a dictatorship that you kinda just follow because hes got a bigger gun than you... :D
Sindorin 09-07-05, 05:41 PM	Well at least we won't get murdered or anything... though while I was gone I was curious as to whether or not Caterane would actually come to St. Louis and beat me up like he said he would if I became addicted to Guild Wars... which I did recently...
Altaris13 09-07-05, 05:44 PM	Voted on? No, but I don't recall any one speaking against it either. I think it started because I put Uther up for Elder position since a few of you Elder's disappeared. Even with Uther, I think there only 3 active Elders, but a bunch of us commoners :D were being loud & obnoxious & demanding to be heard! (A bit of exaggerration there.)
nightbanegod 09-07-05, 05:45 PM	i recently found out that diablo 2 put out another patch... whereas i was under the impression that the version 1.10 would be the last... im tempted to pick up another copy of it... which would be VERY bad for my spare time :D :weep: and (exageration?) i DONT THINK SO!!!! :evillaugh :devil: :schemes: :pbbbtt: :rant: :censored: :censored: :pumpkin: :chicken: :turkey: :dragon:
NiQil 09-07-05, 05:49 PM	Voted on? No, but I don't recall any one speaking against it either. I think it started because I put Uther up for Elder position since a few of you Elder's disappeared. Even with Uther, I think there only 3 active Elders, but a bunch of us commoners :D were being loud & obnoxious & demanding to be heard! (A bit of exaggerration there.) King Uther, Tellish of Ket, Huan, Pittbull and LLMadCow are the current Elders.
Altaris13 09-07-05, 05:49 PM	:heehee So, a chicken, a turkey, and a dragon walk into a tavern...
sloisel 09-07-05, 05:54 PM	Wow Cat sure has been busy changing stuff around and making ugly Pitlords avatars. Was any of this voted on?!?! You can blame me for entering images for pitlords and prisonlords that were eventually chosen -- I don't think anybody else entered any. I had also entered images for scribelords, but Cat ended up using lawnmower man (I think) instead. The images I had suggested for scribelords were more wizardly, but he wanted some sort of monster type, that's why he didn't pick my suggestions. The pitlords avatar is Darkness from the movie Legend and prisonlords is Sarris from Galaxy Quest. My suggestions for scribelords were Merlin from the old Excalibur movie, Gandalf and Saruman from the recent LotR movies, and a couple of paintings of wizards I'd found. Edit: It's on pages 44 and 45 of this thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=444341&page=44&pp=30 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=444341&page=45&pp=30 Sébastien Loisel
Sindorin 09-07-05, 05:57 PM	Ah. They do their job well!
Snommelp 09-07-05, 06:29 PM	Important and relevant question: can a thrown mindblade be deflected by a person with Deflect Arrows? It's not an unusually massive weapon, but the case could be made for it being generated by a spell effect. I need an answer before I can send tactics.
NiQil 09-07-05, 06:37 PM	Important and relevant question: can a thrown mindblade be deflected by a person with Deflect Arrows? It's not an unusually massive weapon, but the case could be made for it being generated by a spell effect. I need an answer before I can send tactics. Heh...you read my mind....I had the same question.
Snommelp 09-07-05, 07:10 PM	Heh...you read my mind....I had the same question. Really? I never would have seen that coming... :P I would say that they can be deflected, but then again, I'm biased.
NiQil 09-07-05, 07:13 PM	Really? I never would have seen that coming... :P I would say that they can be deflected, but then again, I'm biased. That's not how I would *like it to be ruled.....but most likely I am guessing they can be deflected just like any other thrown weapon. But I agree....we need a few third party responses on this one.
Shaken, not Stunned 09-07-05, 07:15 PM	Hey, everybody. Are there any ECL three or four characters out there who would like to go on a quest with another adventurer? I have a very versatile request from the first individual to respond, and so can accomodate almost anything. It'd be really neat if I could up the CR of the fight, but to do so I need at least another guy. The quest will start wednesday after next. Please send me A PM by next thursday if you would like to participate (the usual credit fee applies).
NiQil 09-07-05, 07:40 PM	Bueller?
Tellish_of_Ket 09-07-05, 07:46 PM	Important and relevant question: can a thrown mindblade be deflected by a person with Deflect Arrows? It's not an unusually massive weapon, but the case could be made for it being generated by a spell effect. I need an answer before I can send tactics. Of course. Mind Blade is a supernatural ability, not a spell-like ability. -ToK
NiQil 09-07-05, 07:55 PM	Of course. Mind Blade is a supernatural ability, not a spell-like ability. -ToK Doh! Yer killin' me, Smalls!
Tellish_of_Ket 09-07-05, 08:20 PM	....who is the Eldest of them all. In case anyone is interested, i did a wee bit of research. Since i've seen a lot of references to elders and such, i thought i'd get a little nosy and see just who is Eldest of them all. Week 1: Mo, Snark, Magagumo Week 2: LLMadCow, Jindl Week 3: Caterane, Kerlan Rayne Week 4: Tellish of Ket Week 7: sloisel Week 8: MotherBast I didn't want to spend all week and go much further. Yeah, some of them aren't here anymore, but they were staples for a long time. I'm sure Kaigan came shortly thereafter i think. But without a search function, it was pretty lengthy just to get that much. ...and the winner is???? None other than Mr. Size 7 himself: LLMadCow -ToK
KerlanRayne 09-08-05, 03:30 AM	I actually started doing that recently by habit... I'm not sure why. It is very useful because things seem very hopeless nowadays - all these rules and changes here that I don't like - *le sigh* is, I suppose, intended to mean "I give up" or "we'll see about that" or "hopeless" or "I will have my revenge..." Maybe not that last one, but you get my general intentions. I didn't realize other people did it. Funny... I thought *le sigh* came from the Looney Tunes character Pepé Le Pew. KerlanRayne
Pitlords 09-08-05, 07:28 AM	The Active status for characters on campaigns is not there to annoy you but to make sure that we have enough pitlords. I prefer to be too careful than too reckless with such things. Especially in the beginning, when we had no idea on the impact of campaigns, I had to put up that restriction. Allowing 1 free character on a campaign means more characters in the arena, and less pitlords. This week, we have Pitlords for 41 fights (which is a record) while the actual number of fights is 33. That's a safe margin for now although if the # of PL decrease and the number of fights increase by the new characters, we might get a problem. Imagine, those 25 characters on the campaigns (soon more) would be free and replaced by an equal number of gladiators. Secondly, I see no reason for making campaign characters free. Your character levels just as fast, or faster even, as in the arena. On top of that, you can run him by yourself, and that 24/7. That's imo much better than an arena fight. I could understand your argument somewhat if campaigns would not be game-affecting but that's not the case; and even then there's still the problem with the Pitlords. But what I can do is to increase the number of credits for Campaignlords to 3 a week. It's more work than a quest so it's definately worth it. Likewise, quests now reward a flat 2° for the QL.
Cerebus13 09-08-05, 08:24 AM	I'm thinking of picking up a mount for one of my characters at some point and had some questions. 1) Can you go on a mini-quest for an animal that can be bought on the market with an Elite ability score array if you pay the credit cost? 2) As per this quote of the SRD under the Ride skill:Control Mount in Battle As a move action, you can attempt to control a light horse, pony, heavy horse, or other mount not trained for combat riding while in battle. If you fail the Ride check, you can do nothing else in that round. You do not need to roll for warhorses or warponies.I've bolded the relevant section. After reading this it seems to me that in order to be able to ride a mount into battle without having to roll this DC20 Ride check every round it has to be trained with the Combat Riding skill package. Is this true?
Sindorin 09-08-05, 08:48 AM	I thought *le sigh* came from the Looney Tunes character Pepé Le Pew. KerlanRayne Hmm, perhaps this is some unconscious thing bursting forth from childhood... who knows... funny though.
waywreth 09-08-05, 01:37 PM	Is it possible to get a refund on an item you purchased but can't use? I bought 2 scrolls of entangle before realizing it's not on my spell list. AFTER this week's fight I'd love to be able to sell them back at full price and buy a scroll of fly which IS on my spell list. ... Core Coliseum - teaching how to use scrolls since inception.
Snommelp 09-08-05, 01:49 PM	As far as I know, any unused item can be sold back for full price. Used but still usable items can be sold back for half price.
michael_noah 09-08-05, 01:51 PM	Is there any rule about creating items with metapsionic feats? If so, can one make items with Enlarge Power with essentially no cost increase? If so, can I make all of my stones be that way since I didn't know?
Altaris13 09-08-05, 02:25 PM	Is there any rule about creating items with metapsionic feats? If so, can one make items with Enlarge Power with essentially no cost increase? If so, can I make all of my stones be that way since I didn't know? There is a cost increase though. Your ML has to be sufficient to apply the metapsionic feat in question. By augmenting (which includes spending PP for metapsionic feats,) you increase your effective ML, which affects the cost of the psionic item.
michael_noah 09-08-05, 02:40 PM	But Enlarge Power doesn't increase the PP cost at all, it just requires that you expend your psionic focus.
Cerebus13 09-08-05, 02:52 PM	But Enlarge Power doesn't increase the PP cost at all, it just requires that you expend your psionic focus.We've been using this interpretation for Enlarge Power for a while now, since it doesn't increase PP usage or ML of the power in question.
Altaris13 09-08-05, 03:46 PM	We've been using this interpretation for Enlarge Power for a while now, since it doesn't increase PP usage or ML of the power in question. Um, does this mean that MN was right? Or was this in support of my post? :confused:
Cerebus13 09-08-05, 04:40 PM	Um, does this mean that MN was right? Or was this in support of my post? :confused:Sorry I wasn't very clear on that. Basically, Enlarge Power can be freely applied to Powerstones because the payment of "expend your psionic focus" is paid by the person creating the stone. Since this "payment" has no real monetary value, unlike metamagic feats increasing spell level/caster level, it is a freebie for us to apply to powerstones that have applicable ranges.
Altaris13 09-08-05, 04:43 PM	Weee! :D Does that go for our other metapsionic feats as well?
NiQil 09-08-05, 04:46 PM	Sorry I wasn't very clear on that. Basically, Enlarge Power can be freely applied to Powerstones because the payment of "expend your psionic focus" is paid by the person creating the stone. Since this "payment" has no real monetary value, unlike metamagic feats increasing spell level/caster level, it is a freebie for us to apply to powerstones that have applicable ranges. Ummm.....hi....can we say broken? A free metapsionic feat in powerstones? This definitely needs to be changed. @Cat This should definitely be addressed. Metapsionic/magic applied to items should *never be free, IMO.
Luni 09-08-05, 04:58 PM	But, I'm already working on replacing all those power stones with Enlarged Versions.
Altaris13 09-08-05, 05:00 PM	But, I'm already working on replacing all those power stones with Enlarged Versions. Wow. You didn't wait long at all. :D
Emrys Donovan 09-08-05, 05:04 PM	How long does a potion of bull's strength last?
Cerebus13 09-08-05, 05:12 PM	Ummm.....hi....can we say broken? A free metapsionic feat in powerstones? This definitely needs to be changed. @Cat This should definitely be addressed. Metapsionic/magic applied to items should *never be free, IMO.It's been like this for a long time and no one has had any issues with it...probably because increasing the ranges of Psionic powers (which typically are very short) helps out Psionic classes which have a lot tougher time dealing with the 1/3rd rule than normal spell casters. Psionics already received a nerf with the house rule that increases cost of psionic items that have augmented powers on them. I don't see the need to nerf them further. @Altaris13 Enlarge Power is the only metapsionic feat that has a "free" cost. All the other ones have increased PP costs associated with them, which is not free because it requires an increased Manifester Level to compensate. Edit: How long does a potion of bull's strength last?The CL of a Bull's Strength potion is 3, so the duration would be 3 * 1 minute or 30 rounds total.
michael_noah 09-08-05, 05:21 PM	Ummm.....hi....can we say broken? A free metapsionic feat in powerstones? This definitely needs to be changed. @Cat This should definitely be addressed. Metapsionic/magic applied to items should *never be free, IMO. It certainly should be free! It doesn't increase any of the things that affect powerstone cost. I think all the other metapsionic feats do - and every core metamagic feat does.
Caterane 09-08-05, 05:26 PM	I didn't make the rules for psionics. Enlarge Power is normally not that problematic because in a campaign you need access to such a metapsionicked stone. And here, well, it doubles the range; that's not broken so no need for another house rule (because that's what it would be).
michael_noah 09-08-05, 05:27 PM	So can I change the stones I have?
Pittbull 09-08-05, 05:38 PM	So can I change the stones I have? I would say yes! Just contact your pitlord and opponent or do it after the fight.
Altaris13 09-08-05, 05:40 PM	Weee! I'll want to do the same... *goes to poke some peeps*
NiQil 09-08-05, 05:53 PM	Can a wilder use their Wild Surge ability to craft powerstones, dorjes or tattoos at a higher manifester level at no additional cost?
Gonbow 09-08-05, 06:01 PM	Can a wilder use their Wild Surge ability to craft powerstones, dorjes or tattoos at a higher manifester level at no additional cost? Wild Surge can go off whenever you manifest a power. You manifest a power when you, manifest a power, use a psi-like ability, use a 'spell' completion or 'spell' trigger item. I.E: Powerstones and Dorjes yes, Tattoos no. That's how I would reard it, anyways.
NiQil 09-08-05, 06:12 PM	Wild Surge can go off whenever you manifest a power. You manifest a power when you, manifest a power, use a psi-like ability, use a 'spell' completion or 'spell' trigger item. I.E: Powerstones and Dorjes yes, Tattoos no. That's how I would reard it, anyways. By that logic, Tattoos should also be able to, since the power points necessary to activate a tattoo are part of the tattoo. Since tattoos are activated with command thoughts, they require no special activation sequence. The creator has put everything there needed to activate the power. If the power is augmented, then the necessary powerpoints are already a part of the tattoo, meaning that the Wild Surge would have been done at creation. However, since tattoos are basically like potions, I could easily see why you would say what you did. What I am curious about is if you craft a powerstone that is augmented with Wild Surge, would just still have to pay the extra cost for it? That could go either way. Based on the nerf in place, though, I would guess you would still have to.
Gonbow 09-08-05, 06:20 PM	By that logic, Tattoos should also be able to, since the power points necessary to activate a tattoo are part of the tattoo. Since tattoos are activated with command thoughts, they require no special activation sequence. The creator has put everything there needed to activate the power. If the power is augmented, then the necessary powerpoints are already a part of the tattoo, meaning that the Wild Surge would have been done at creation. However, since tattoos are basically like potions, I could easily see why you would say what you did. What I am curious about is if you craft a powerstone that is augmented with Wild Surge, would just still have to pay the extra cost for it? That could go either way. Based on the nerf in place, though, I would guess you would still have to. Well the thing with tattoos is that YOU don't cast it, the creator does. That's why they make all the decisions, you have to be the target, etc. Crafting with wild surge? Uhm. I suppose. I don't see why not. But it would cost as though it were manifested at a higher level. Just as if it wasn't wild surged but created by a wilder of that level.
Altaris13 09-08-05, 06:21 PM	NiQil, I think you misunderstood. If an item is spell-completion, like power stone (= scroll,) then the manifester (= caster, or YOU) is a wilder, then you can wild surge. Wild Surge is done when the power is manifested, not when an item is crafted. So, no, you can't have a previously made wild-surged powerstone of uberdoom. ;) But you could play an uber wilder with a powerstone of doom and wild surge when you manifest the stone's power. EDIT: Gonbow! YAY! (Since you're here, is my fight going to be soon? pretty, pretty, please?) :D Anyhow: wild surge actually provides the PP to augment the power in question, so it wouldn't be free anyway.
nightbanegod 09-08-05, 06:54 PM	whats the rules on tripping a mounted opponent?
Snommelp 09-08-05, 06:57 PM	whats the rules on tripping a mounted opponent? You can use trip to pull someone from his mount. That's "tripping" a mounted opponent. If you mean tripping the mount while the rider is mounted, no idea.
nightbanegod 09-08-05, 07:06 PM	You can use trip to pull someone from his mount. That's "tripping" a mounted opponent. If you mean tripping the mount while the rider is mounted, no idea. do they fall prone?
Snommelp 09-08-05, 07:09 PM	The PHB just says that you pull him from his mount. Since it doesn't specifically say that he falls prone, I'd say that he doesn't. Also, the rider can make a Ride check instead of the Strength or Dexterity check.
Usurpator 09-08-05, 07:11 PM	I wondered something in response to Luni's post about the caster level of a potion of enlarge person: About the potions, the COCO rules say: These items are restricted to the minimum CL/ML. In case of potions only those listed in the DMG are available, and if a potion is specifically listed having a higher CL then it can be purchased aswell. You may buy higher CL/ML scrolls and potions aswell as potions and oils not listed in the DMG at the Blackmarket. I make this out to understand that I can only use potions that are in the DMG and that they are always at minimum CL, but I can choose to have a higher CL potion if I want to AND the potion is in the list. So in case of Enlarge Person I should be able to choose between a CL1 and a CL5 potion. Is this the case or not? And why make mention of the minimum caster levels at all concerning potions when you can only choose the potions at the exact caster level that is mentioned in the DMG? BTW, I think the CL5 on the enlarge person potion is a holdover from 3.0, when a CL5 actually made a difference in comparison to lower caster levels, since you grew 10% per CL, up to a max. of 50%. Editing error when converting to 3.5 I guess.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-08-05, 07:11 PM	do they fall prone? Absolutely. And to answer the above post as well, if you trip the mount, the rider would need to make a soft fall check to avoid taking damage. -ToK
nightbanegod 09-08-05, 07:17 PM	Absolutely. And to answer the above post as well, if you trip the mount, the rider would need to make a soft fall check to avoid taking damage. -ToK YAY... now how about you just obliterate the mount instead of tripping? what happens then?
NiQil 09-08-05, 07:17 PM	The PHB just says that you pull him from his mount. Since it doesn't specifically say that he falls prone, I'd say that he doesn't. Also, the rider can make a Ride check instead of the Strength or Dexterity check. I might disagree with this....I'm kinda on the fence. Here are the two relavent entries from the Trip action. Being Tripped (Prone): A tripped character is prone. Standing up is a move action. Tripping a Mounted Opponent: You may make a trip attack against a mounted opponent. The defender may make a Ride check in place of his Dexterity or Strength check. If you succeed, you pull the rider from his mount. Looking at those two together, if you are using the trip act to bring a person off his mount, the case could be made that they were "tripped" and would therefore fall prone. Since they are coming down from a mount, they would also take falling damage.
Snommelp 09-08-05, 07:25 PM	Meh. I just calls 'em as I sees 'em. ToK seems to have a better grasp of this sort of situation, and I'm apathetic in this instance, so I defer to his judgement. NBG: If you "obliterate" the mount, the rider will have to make a soft fall check or take damage from falling. He might or might not fall prone. ToK?
nightbanegod 09-08-05, 07:25 PM	cool on trippin him... any word on devastating his mount? does he fall for damage?
Emrys Donovan 09-08-05, 08:26 PM	How long does a potion of Bull's Strength last?
nightbanegod 09-08-05, 08:36 PM	How long does a potion of Bull's Strength last? dude its a 2nd lvl spell .... 30 rounds
michael_noah 09-08-05, 08:50 PM	cool on trippin him... any word on devastating his mount? does he fall for damage? I, I mean, "he" falls, unless me makes a soft fall ride check. If he doesn't make it, I'd guess that "he" is also prone - the rules of the game or the faq or something say that in general, when a person falls, unless they somehow take no damage, they fall prone. (I really hope I'm wrong about who this is...)
Emrys Donovan 09-08-05, 09:47 PM	dude its a 2nd lvl spell .... 30 rounds Dude thanks, lol.
nightbanegod 09-08-05, 10:47 PM	I, I mean, "he" falls, unless me makes a soft fall ride check. If he doesn't make it, I'd guess that "he" is also prone - the rules of the game or the faq or something say that in general, when a person falls, unless they somehow take no damage, they fall prone. (I really hope I'm wrong about who this is...) LOL ... you hoped correctly, this issue is not pertinent to your fight ... yet at least
michael_noah 09-08-05, 11:47 PM	LOL ... you hoped correctly, this issue is not pertinent to your fight ... yet at least Yay!
NiQil 09-09-05, 11:56 AM	Are cleric turn undead attempts subject to the 1/3 rule?
TelinArtho 09-09-05, 12:01 PM	yes.
Luni 09-09-05, 12:02 PM	Are cleric turn undead attempts subject to the 1/3 rule? Yes.
Snommelp 09-09-05, 12:02 PM	Are cleric turn undead attempts subject to the 1/3 rule? Should be. Anything that's x/day is 1/3 of x per arena fight or miniquest, including things like a barbarian's rage (which is moot since a barbarian can only rage once per encounter anyway), so it follows that turning would be subject to the 1/3 rule as well. EDIT: wow, three responses in the span of a minute... we're good!
Luni 09-09-05, 12:18 PM	Should be. Anything that's x/day is 1/3 of x per arena fight or miniquest, including things like a barbarian's rage (which is moot since a barbarian can only rage once per encounter anyway), so it follows that turning would be subject to the 1/3 rule as well. EDIT: wow, three responses in the span of a minute... we're good! That's not entirely correcte Snommelp. Paladins Lay on Hands, Monk Wholeness of Body doesn't have a limit on its use. I'm not sure about the Clerics Freedom Domain ability however.
Snommelp 09-09-05, 12:42 PM	Right... anything that's x/day except self-healing powers. Because the premise was that you might need the rest for later fights, but that would never stop a character from using a self-healing ability. And Freedom Domain ability is unknown.
NiQil 09-09-05, 12:44 PM	Right... anything that's x/day except self-healing powers. Because the premise was that you might need the rest for later fights, but that would never stop a character from using a self-healing ability. And Freedom Domain ability is unknown. Actually, isn't that the point of the arena....to stop a character from using a self-healing ability? LOL
Snommelp 09-09-05, 01:12 PM	Question: if one wanted to give a +1 enchantment to a masterwork composite bow with a strength enhancement, how exactly would that work? A +1 composite shortbow +2? A +1 composite longbow +5? Am I making it more difficult than it needs to be, and all you actually need to do is add the magical bonus to the strength bonus?
michael_noah 09-09-05, 01:18 PM	it's not complicated at all. You pay the same that you would for any other weapon - and it works the same way. You just add an enhancement bonus to attack (that overlaps with the masterwork bonus) and damage (that stacks with any strength bonus).
NiQil 09-09-05, 01:19 PM	Question: if one wanted to give a +1 enchantment to a masterwork composite bow with a strength enhancement, how exactly would that work? A +1 composite shortbow +2? A +1 composite longbow +5? Am I making it more difficult than it needs to be, and all you actually need to do is add the magical bonus to the strength bonus? It would be listed as a +1 Mighty (+2 Str) Composite Shortbow or Longbow. As far as cost goes, it would be the cost of the normal composite bow (short or long) + masterwork cost + (100 x each point of Str bonus it allows) + 2000 for the +1 enchantment. So a +1 Mighty (+2 Str) Composite Longbow would be 100 bow + 300 masterwork + 200 mighty +2 Str + 2000 enchantment for a total of 2600 gp. As for stat purposes...the +1 enhancement would go on both your attack and damage modifiers, and then Mighty bonus would be strictly a damage modifier.
SoulLord 09-09-05, 01:25 PM	Exactly as it would on a melee weapon. for example a mW mighty bow +3 when added a +1 magical enhacment would get no benefits to hit (as it doesn't stack with the mw bonus) and would do +1 damage
KerlanRayne 09-09-05, 02:26 PM	I write it like this, Composite[+4] Longbow +1. I don't think they are called Mighty bows anymore. KerlanRayne
NiQil 09-09-05, 02:35 PM	@Cat/Pitlords or anyone else that knows When someone spends a pairing crafting an item....do they still earn the money from skill awards for profession, crafts, etc, or does that go away for the week you are crafting? I am guessing it goes away, but wasn't sure. Edit: Nevermind...answered my own question. Skill awards are free activities, and free activities cannot be performed when crafting.
waywreth 09-09-05, 03:04 PM	Hurrah a new gladiator! If anyone is bored and wouldn't mind checking him to make sure I didn't do something horribly wrong like my last one, I'd appreciate it. Casgish (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7202847&postcount=460)
TelinArtho 09-09-05, 03:13 PM	You seem to be inconsistent with your strength bonus - check all cases where it is listed. Int of 18 is 16 points not 14. Your bonus for Craft (Horseshoes) should be +12 with your tools. You can't use your wand of CLW because it is not on your spell list. Include the net in your list of attacks (it has dynamics that are not always common in arenas - so it is better to have all of the attack bonuses and rules laid out). Don't forget to include the Save DCs for your spells. I didn't double check your expenditures - but the rest looks fine.
michael_noah 09-09-05, 03:14 PM	Hurrah a new gladiator! If anyone is bored and wouldn't mind checking him to make sure I didn't do something horribly wrong like my last one, I'd appreciate it. Casgish (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7202847&postcount=460) You've added your constitution bonus to HP at first level twice. You have 14 points listed for being spent on intelligence, you actually spent 16. I think your total is right, though. You have not picked a feat for level 3.
waywreth 09-09-05, 03:18 PM	Thanks both... Feel free to submit that stuff to the prison thread, I forgot you get credit for it now. I'm going to fix now anyway.
Emrys Donovan 09-09-05, 04:42 PM	Would having an inherited template (namely lycanthrope) cost any credits? If so, how many?
Mind Rogue 09-09-05, 05:01 PM	The template costs just as much as any other LA race: it increases your effective character level, so you would have to pay the one-time cost of 4 credits per point that your ECL is above 3. So if you were playing an Drow natural wererat rogue 1 you would have 1 class levels +1 HD +2 LA for being a drow and another +3 LA for being a lycanthrope, for a total ECL of 7, so you would be charged 16 credits. Now feasably, couldn't a natural (but not an afflicted) lycanthrope start with only animal HD, since their first level would actually be the animal HD?
Emrys Donovan 09-09-05, 05:12 PM	The template costs just as much as any other LA race: it increases your effective character level, so you would have to pay the one-time cost of 4 credits per point that your ECL is above 3. So if you were playing an Drow natural wererat rogue 1 you would have 1 class levels +1 HD +2 LA for being a drow and another +3 LA for being a lycanthrope, for a total ECL of 7, so you would be charged 16 credits. Now feasably, couldn't a natural (but not an afflicted) lycanthrope start with only animal HD, since their first level would actually be the animal HD?No. You have to be a humanoid or giant to be a lycanthrope, inherited or afflicted, so you would have a class at first lvl. How huch for a human natural werebear fighter 1? 8 credits? Edit: Actually, that might work, but I'm not sure.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-09-05, 05:23 PM	No. You have to be a humanoid or giant to be a lycanthrope, inherited or afflicted, so you would have a class at first lvl. How huch for a human natural werebear fighter 1? 8 credits? Whoa! 8 credits? Not on your life. Remember 4 credits for every ECL above 3. Bear HD = 6 LA + 3 (natural) Ftr +1 _____ ECL 10 - 3 = 7 x 4 = 28 credits. -ToK
Emrys Donovan 09-09-05, 05:29 PM	Lol, I'm not quite sure how to determine HD. I'm guessing its the second +xdy+z (ie 6d6+18)?
Tellish_of_Ket 09-09-05, 05:36 PM	Need an expert opinion here. When something says, Polymorph (humanoid forms only) does this mean, humanoid only or anything with a humanoid shape? -ToK
SoulLord 09-09-05, 05:42 PM	what does it say polymorph? (humanoids forms only) if you tell us we can answer better.
Emrys Donovan 09-09-05, 05:44 PM	Need an expert opinion here. When something says, Polymorph (humanoid forms only) does this mean, humanoid only or anything with a humanoid shape? -ToKI'd look at the Ranger class table for favored enemies. It has "humanoids" broken down into subtypes, such as orc, human, elf, etc.
Sindorin 09-09-05, 05:45 PM	I thought it was 5 credits for each level above 3... it used to be 4 but it changed with LG. Did it go back to 4?
Altaris13 09-09-05, 05:59 PM	What's the code for strikethrough like that?
Mind Rogue 09-09-05, 06:14 PM	strikethrough is done with the nifty (s)(/s) except in square brackets.
michael_noah 09-09-05, 06:21 PM	it almost certainly means Humanoid (with a capital H) the type, not the shape. I doubt whatever it is can polymorph into a hound archon, for example.
Vathelokai 09-09-05, 06:40 PM	Need an expert opinion here. When something says, Polymorph (humanoid forms only) does this mean, humanoid only or anything with a humanoid shape? -ToK Pretty sure it means humanoids and any of the humanoid subtypes, but none of the 'humanoid' monsterous humanoids. I compiled a list in the Arcane Order thread, post 4.
Emrys Donovan 09-09-05, 07:59 PM	Does damage from sneak attack and dissolving weapon stack?
Vathelokai 09-09-05, 08:22 PM	What's the code for strikethrough like that? Full list of codes for this forum found here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/misc.php?do=bbcode) Scroll far enough down and it shows you how to use everything. Does damage from sneak attack and dissolving weapon stack? Unless I'm mistaken, sneak attack stacks with every other kind of damage.
Huan 09-09-05, 11:13 PM	@Tellish of Ket and all "A History Lesson, Part 1" players Sorry for the accidental post on your turf... itchy mouse finger (I meant to post in the FoTW). :)
Luni 09-10-05, 01:06 AM	@Tellish of Ket and all "A History Lesson, Part 1" players Sorry for the accidental post on your turf... itchy mouse finger (I meant to post in the FoTW). :) Sure, we believe you! :D
Sindorin 09-10-05, 01:31 AM	Okay. I am doing something many likely thought Sindorin would never do - making a character that has levels in Druid. Am I able to start with the Animal Companion, or will this need to be quested for? If it needs to be quested for, that is cool with me and makes it all the better :-). Its a build I don't think anyone has done here yet...
NiQil 09-10-05, 01:54 AM	Okay. I am doing something many likely thought Sindorin would never do - making a character that has levels in Druid. Am I able to start with the Animal Companion, or will this need to be quested for? If it needs to be quested for, that is cool with me and makes it all the better :-). Its a build I don't think anyone has done here yet... As long as you have at least one level in Druid, you get the Animal Companion as a class feature. Basically, you get an ally that does not give you experience or gold penalties in the arena...which druids need at low levels...until they get wild shape they have a low survivability rate....at least in my experience.
Sindorin 09-10-05, 01:58 AM	That makes sense. The reason I asked is because I know certain allies (like purchased ones) can be obtained without quests during creation... but I wasn't sure about a class feature. Thanks!
Sindorin 09-10-05, 02:58 AM	One thing that is confounding me: In looking into how to make my druid, I looked at Jindl of the High Forest when he started in LG. How is it that he was able to have a crocodile as his companion at level 3? I ask this only because it sounds fun and I might do it too...
Emrys Donovan 09-10-05, 07:18 AM	One thing that is confounding me: In looking into how to make my druid, I looked at Jindl of the High Forest when he started in LG. How is it that he was able to have a crocodile as his companion at level 3? I ask this only because it sounds fun and I might do it too... It is an alternate lvl 1-3 animal companion choice. ;) Have fun.
Usurpator 09-10-05, 07:47 AM	One thing that is confounding me: In looking into how to make my druid, I looked at Jindl of the High Forest when he started in LG. How is it that he was able to have a crocodile as his companion at level 3? I ask this only because it sounds fun and I might do it too... That has confounded me as well. Crocodile is listed as alternative starting animal companion (for aquatic campaigns) and listed as an alternative animal companion for 4th lvl or higher druids. Obviously it should be one of those, not both. Quick analysis: judging from its HD and its combat prowess a crocodile should probably fall into the 4th+ animal companion category, and not in the starting animal companion category. I guess its a editing error.
michael_noah 09-10-05, 09:46 AM	The crocodile is allowed for all druids as a 4th level companion, but it is also allowed to druids in an aquatic campaign at a lower level because the crocodile is... aquatic. Luckily for druids - the arena is always the most favored environment for the gladiator, so all arena druids (though i'd say not druids on non-aquatic campaigns) can have one at 1st level.
Dr. Funk 09-10-05, 10:39 AM	My latest gladiator is up: Ariator (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7209889#post7209889)
Vathelokai 09-10-05, 10:57 AM	Blast you! You stole my gimmick, and beat me to the post by 10 minutes. My new character (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7209993&postcount=463) challenges you to a duel! I've still got to work some kinks out, like a name, but I'll see you by the bus after school, Dr. Funk.
TelinArtho 09-10-05, 11:02 AM	Well, if you want to go there Vath - I've had Kraegin up for over a month now, and Tlanth and Vakkor are also summoners (who are both 3rd level at the moment I might add...).
Vathelokai 09-10-05, 11:11 AM	I just thought I'd get all melodramatic with it. Thought it was funny...I went and posted a char., then went to the tavern to ask for comments, and there's Ariator. Hey, maybe we could all throw in on a free for all and give a pitlord an anurism :D
Sindorin 09-10-05, 12:25 PM	It is an alternate lvl 1-3 animal companion choice. ;) Have fun. oooh. :evillaugh
Mind Rogue 09-10-05, 12:42 PM	Maybe someday someone will leave a decanter of endless water on by accident and flood the arena, so we'd have to take advantage of the situation by having a duel between Mer-Man and a druid who is permission to start in wild shape as some sort of aquatic creature, along with his crocodile animal companion. Or maybe between a Malenti and an aquatic elf or something like that.
Pittbull 09-10-05, 12:53 PM	The decanter was one of the reasons why we installed the rule that pre-buffs must not affect the arena. Böser Harvester, Böser Harvester! ;) But don't forget we still have the option of different arena-types. You can do it like mini-quests on an own map.
Mind Rogue 09-10-05, 01:03 PM	It was kind of a joke to allow two aquatic type gladiators to have a challenge in their natural habitat. Since it would work to both gladiators advantage, they could have a special challenge where they fight in the arena after it had been flooded.
Sindorin 09-10-05, 01:17 PM	I have no real explanation for why he thought he was able to do that stuff to the arena in the first place... I don't think any of us did. It was quite funny though.
Luni 09-10-05, 01:25 PM	It was kind of a joke to allow two aquatic type gladiators to have a challenge in their natural habitat. Since it would work to both gladiators advantage, they could have a special challenge where they fight in the arena after it had been flooded. And I'm not Pitlording an underwater combat! You can challenge people to use the other maps though. Just need everyone to agree on using a different map.
Emrys Donovan 09-10-05, 04:45 PM	What kind of action is drinking a potion?
nightbanegod 09-10-05, 04:47 PM	a standard action... and on another note... is it official that we can run more than one of our own characters in miniquests and quests? or even campaigns? and if not then explain Tellish of Kets quest with paierider and the dwarf
Huan 09-10-05, 07:06 PM	Since it really does not really specifiy either way, do luck and insight bonuses to AC apply to Touch AC as well?
Gonbow 09-10-05, 07:24 PM	Since it really does not really specifiy either way, do luck and insight bonuses to AC apply to Touch AC as well? Logically and mechanically, I would say yes. Touch AC = Non armor-affected AC. Insight and luck have nothing to do with armor, so, ja.
Huan 09-10-05, 07:36 PM	@Gonbow I was thinking the same thing, too (Touch AC = AC - (Armor & Shield)). I just wanted to get a second voice on it. Thanks. :)
Maraxus 09-10-05, 07:41 PM	and on another note... is it official that we can run more than one of our own characters in miniquests and quests? or even campaigns? and if not then explain Tellish of Kets quest with paierider and the dwarf I think it still stands, that you can't have two characters in one campain, that would make the roleplaing of campains ... less interesting. But I see no reasons to forbit this for (short) quests.
sloisel 09-10-05, 10:07 PM	@Gonbow I was thinking the same thing, too (Touch AC = AC - (Armor & Shield)). I just wanted to get a second voice on it. You forgot natural armor. You don't count it in touch AC.
nightbanegod 09-10-05, 11:31 PM	@Gonbow I was thinking the same thing, too (Touch AC = AC - (Armor & Shield)). I just wanted to get a second voice on it. Thanks. :) the way i've played it since insight bonuses granted from PrC's typically doesnt apply when your denied your dex as well, insight gets applied in situations where you get your dex since its more like you know how to block that blow or something like that.. and luck... well luck is luck ... you just get it. GOOD or BAD
Usurpator 09-11-05, 03:59 AM	@Gonbow I was thinking the same thing, too (Touch AC = AC - (Armor & Shield)). I just wanted to get a second voice on it. Thanks. :) Anything that prevents a blow from connecting should go into touch AC, so insight and luck, sure. You need luck to avoid being touched by a Shocking Grasp. Armor, shield and natural armor don't prevent a blow from connecting, they absorb its force.
Usurpator 09-11-05, 04:58 AM	Question about DC's cast from a scroll: In our home campaign we always used the ability score of the user of the scroll to determine the save DC. Here I see minimum ability score used. The SRD says (emphasis mine): Determine Effect: A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way. I always assumed that this meant you used your own ability score modifier for the save DC's. Just tell me that the rule here is that you use the minimum ability score and I will take that into account in my tactics. And a final queston: in the case of self-scribed scrolls, is the save DC also based on minimum ability score, or the ability score of the crafter?
Vathelokai 09-11-05, 05:06 AM	All magic items except staffs use the minimum ability score possible to craft it, no matter what the creator or the users powers are. As for self scribed scrolls, the DC is always the minimum possible, but level dependent effects (like durration) are based on the Caster Level of the scroll. That line about 'exactly' just dosn't make sense. I know it's in the SRD, but if you skim around there are a number of things different about casting from a scroll.
NiQil 09-11-05, 08:18 AM	All magic items except staffs use the minimum ability score possible to craft it, no matter what the creator or the users powers are. As for self scribed scrolls, the DC is always the minimum possible, but level dependent effects (like durration) are based on the Caster Level of the scroll. That line about 'exactly' just dosn't make sense. I know it's in the SRD, but if you skim around there are a number of things different about casting from a scroll. The problem with the exactly line is that no one reads the rest of the line. The line reads that the spell is cast in exactly the same way....meaning that the action time is the same. That does not mean that the durations, effects, damage, etc are the same, because those are dependant on who is casting them. But the act of casting them is identical, except for you are reading it from a scroll instead of chanting lines from memory. The visual, verbal and somatic components are all the same (even if they are built into the scroll already), and the time it takes to do so are the same. That's it. The rest of the variable parts of the spell are not determined by how the spell is cast...they are determined by the power of the person casting the spell. So in the case of a scroll, the power of the person who scribed the scroll is what determines its variables, not the person reading the scroll. But the time it takes for a caster to cast the spell from a scroll vs the time it takes for someone to cast the same spell from memory is the same, and all of the components of the spell are the same, except that from memory you are drawing them out on your own, whereas from a scroll they were already used to make the scroll.
Altaris13 09-11-05, 11:05 AM	Hey all available Questlords! I'd like to take Zamier (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7113409) on a quest for an item.
Luni 09-11-05, 11:49 AM	Advice Wanted: Talari, has too much gold and needs to go on a spending spree. What would be the best way to improve her AC? Also, is there an item that lets you see invisible?
xanadu 09-11-05, 01:12 PM	hand of glory I think is 8000 gp.
Luni 09-11-05, 02:04 PM	hand of glory I think is 8000 gp. Oooh. Only need 2000 more, then no more invisible death!
xanadu 09-11-05, 02:59 PM	Oooh. Only need 2000 more, then no more invisible death! Actually, Druids should be the second easiest to deal with invisible things as you have faerie fire and a free action DC 10 check for your companion to seek w/ his scent.
Emrys Donovan 09-11-05, 03:27 PM	Hey Cat, can I switch out Speed of Thought for Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike? I have yet to use SoT.
nightbanegod 09-11-05, 06:14 PM	Advice Wanted: Talari, has too much gold and needs to go on a spending spree. What would be the best way to improve her AC? Also, is there an item that lets you see invisible? grab the ioun stone for +1 insight bonus to AC 5000 gp and it applies to touch AC
Snommelp 09-11-05, 06:38 PM	grab the ioun stone for +1 insight bonus to AC 5000 gp and it applies to touch AC But with that same 5000 you could get an amulet of natural armor +1 and still have 3000 left over to turn the MW shield and armor into a +1 shield and +1 armor. That's +3 that doesn't effect your touch AC vs. +1 which does. EDIT: Armor bonuses don't stack. I know this. Really, I do.
Vathelokai 09-12-05, 02:18 AM	@Cat: So, is the guildhall thread off limits until it has its reserved posts filled with rules?
Caterane 09-12-05, 06:43 AM	Hey Cat, can I switch out Speed of Thought for Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike? I have yet to use SoT. Ok. Link this post.
Caterane 09-12-05, 06:47 AM	@Vath: The Guild Hall is not necessary for now. The TAO and GSIS can begin to recruit members. Guild Wars won't begin until next month. @all: If anyone is interested in making a guild, please PM me your suggestions. Please note that it's a lot of work to run a guild, and we will only accept guilds that have a chance to find many members. Examples: Archer Guild, Psionic Guild, Bounty Hunters Guild, Melee Guild, etc
Luni 09-12-05, 11:24 AM	@Vath: The Guild Hall is not necessary for now. The TAO and GSIS can begin to recruit members. Guild Wars won't begin until next month. @all: If anyone is interested in making a guild, please PM me your suggestions. Please note that it's a lot of work to run a guild, and we will only accept guilds that have a chance to find many members. Examples: Archer Guild, Psionic Guild, Bounty Hunters Guild, Melee Guild, etc Darn, there goes the Evil Outsiders guild. While I'm tempted to make an Outsiders Guild, stuffing Tieflings and Aasimars in the same room, probably would cause problems.
michael_noah 09-12-05, 11:36 AM	Hey, Tenhelrim would join the Evil Outsiders guild. There are a couple others out there too...
Gonbow 09-12-05, 11:36 AM	@Luni Perhaps a 'Non humanoid' guild? That'd accept tieflings and aasimars, as well as elan's, half-giant's, shaguain.. etc ;) @ToK Why did you change the requirements for GSIS!?! I set up Tatyana specifically to be able to join with the old requirements =/ <grumble grumble>
Altaris13 09-12-05, 11:45 AM	Since it has come up a time or two before, I wanted to share this with everyone. You remain in your assumed form until the spell ends. The spell is dismissable; if you are the spellcaster, you can end the spell during your turn with a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If you share the spell with a familiar or companion, the recipient cannot dismiss the effect, though the effect still ends for the familiar or companion if it moves more than 5 feet away from you.
Luni 09-12-05, 11:46 AM	The whole thing stopping me from creating an Evil Outsider Guild is membership. On the Guilds page, it says guilds must have 5+ members. I think there are only 3 Tieflings here. As for guilds, I am going to design a Nature Lovers guild to combat the evil city lovers who would Pave over Paradise! Before I go send a PM to Emperor Caterane, what do you all think of a Nature Oriented Guild. And not just open to Rangers, Barbarians, Druids.
Usurpator 09-12-05, 12:10 PM	Before I go send a PM to Emperor Caterane, what do you all think of a Nature Oriented Guild. And not just open to Rangers, Barbarians, Druids. That would be a great idea! I would love to see theme oriented guilds rather than class or race based guilds. Bounty Hunters Guild :) Evil Outsiders Guild :( Nature Guild :) Melee Guild :(
Luni 09-12-05, 12:14 PM	Well, my Initial Thoughts are: Alignment: Any Neutral [Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral, Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, Neutral Evil] Skills: [Knowledge: Nature or Survival 5 ranks or Ride 5 Ranks] AND Handle Animal 5 ranks Guild Token: Members gain +1 Rank/ECL to Handle Animal Feel free to discuss!
TelinArtho 09-12-05, 12:22 PM	Discussion from Prison Thread: I put Draconis Regina in prison for having miniquested for a hippogriff without having the appropriate HA skill. Luni's pointed response (pointed as in "very sharp - perceptive") asks if you need a HA skill of +8 for a warhorse. Here's my response: Yes and No - if you want to miniquest for a horse to train into a warhorse - yes. If you just buy one - no. You can always purchase the creatures regardless of whether or not you have HA. /d
michael_noah 09-12-05, 12:25 PM	I think that the point is that you can also just purchase a hippogryph - or purchase the training of one. This is completely core, listed in the monster entry. If we've somehow outlawed this, that's a Bad ThingTM.
NiQil 09-12-05, 12:25 PM	Well, my Initial Thoughts are: Alignment: Any Neutral [Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral, Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, Neutral Evil] Skills: [Knowledge: Nature or Survival 5 ranks or Ride 5 Ranks] AND Handle Animal 5 ranks Guild Token: Members gain +1 Rank/ECL to Handle Animal Feel free to discuss! I might suggesting expanding the skills bit slightly...maybe make it 5 ranks in any two of the following skills Knowledge: Nature, Survival, Ride, Handle Animal or Swim. I might also suggest, for the guild token, to maybe make it something a touch more useful to all...maybe like earning gold that week from use of one of the 5 skills listed above in the arena just like it was a profession or craft....but only at half the normal rate....in addition to any other money the character is already earning from skill use in the arena. So the earnings would be ((10+skill modifier)*ECL)/2...so a level 3 ECL with a +10 skill modifier would earn an additional 30 gp on top of any other skill earnings their characters already receive.
NiQil 09-12-05, 12:27 PM	I think that the point is that you can also just purchase a hippogryph - or purchase the training of one. This is completely core, listed in the monster entry. If we've somehow outlawed this, that's a Bad ThingTM. On what page is the price outlined for purchasing a hippogriff?
michael_noah 09-12-05, 12:29 PM	I'm looking at the SRD: Fancy Online SRD (http://d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hippogriff.htm)
Luni 09-12-05, 12:32 PM	Discussion from Prison Thread: I put Draconis Regina in prison for having miniquested for a hippogriff without having the appropriate HA skill. Luni's pointed response (pointed as in "very sharp - perceptive") asks if you need a HA skill of +8 for a warhorse. Here's my response: Yes and No - if you want to miniquest for a horse to train into a warhorse - yes. If you just buy one - no. You can always purchase the creatures regardless of whether or not you have HA. I have to agree with Telin. Otherwise, when Talari hits level 12, she will MQ for +23 HA: Tyrannosaurus, 180 hp (18HD), speed 40, huge [CR 8] Why worry about the +23 HA, when you can easily make the DC15 HA check to push it to attack. No, I think you need the HA bonus to quest for it. IF you don't have HA you should just buy one. Note: Training an animal is only a DC 15-20 Check anyways. Why have the HA bonus needed if we aren't going to use it.
michael_noah 09-12-05, 12:33 PM	i'm not disagreeing that an animal (whatever) needs to be trained, I'm saying that we should allow someone to pay for the training, especially when it's specifically detailed in the core rules. The handle animal check that CoCo is using is already a departure from the core rules. Normally, you'd need to make that check after years of raising the animal from infancy. That's the only time the high (15+HD) check is used. I think we're just using it so that there's some possibility of getting animal allies - otherwise noone would ever have them. I'm relatively sure that the intention of the rules was that an animal could not be handled at all unless it is domesticated. You shouldn't be able to handle the dinosaur at all unless someone raised it from infancy.
Usurpator 09-12-05, 12:34 PM	For the Nature Guild (and other guilds too) I would like to see alternative entry requirements next to the ever-present skill ranks. If I made a Dwarven Cleric of Obad-Hai with 10 Int, I would love to enter him in the Nature's Guild, but would be unable to until he reached 7th lvl, and that's with him focusing exclusively on the required skills. I have a few 10 Int characters, and with few skill points to go around, I would hate to see most guilds barred to them.
TelinArtho 09-12-05, 12:50 PM	Training the hippogriff was never an issue - the rules for that are located in the Handle Animal skill and in the rules of Gladius thread very clearly (DC15 or DC20; +5 DC if not an animal). You can also pay for the training. However, what is being discussed is whether Draconis can get the hippogriff from the MQ at all. Yes, she could buy one for whatever cost (3kgp I think), but unless she has a HA skill of +13 or higher - she can't MQ for it. This is not a core rule - but it is a rule specifically spelled out in the Allies II thread of the Rules of Gladius. I really don't know why it is really being discussed - the rule is spelled out clear as day to me. /d
michael_noah 09-12-05, 12:56 PM	Training the hippogriff was never an issue - the rules for that are located in the Handle Animal skill and in the rules of Gladius thread very clearly (DC15 or DC20; +5 DC if not an animal). You can also pay for the training. However, what is being discussed is whether Draconis can get the hippogriff from the MQ at all. Yes, she could buy one for whatever cost (3kgp I think), but unless she has a HA skill of +13 or higher - she can't MQ for it. This is not a core rule - but it is a rule specifically spelled out in the Allies II thread of the Rules of Gladius. I really don't know why it is really being discussed - the rule is spelled out clear as day to me. /d I agree, that is what the rule says. I'm saying it's a really bad one. It requires no (handle animal) skill whatsoever to look for a hippogriff - beat it up - keep it from dying - and hand it over to a trainer. I don't think we should artificially require a skill check.
Cerebus13 09-12-05, 01:01 PM	I agree, that is what the rule says. I'm saying it's a really bad one. It requires no (handle animal) skill whatsoever to look for a hippogriff - beat it up - keep it from dying - and hand it over to a trainer. I don't think we should artificially require a skill check.I agree with michael on this one, you shouldn't need a high HA skill to be able to find an animal and bonk it on the head to bring back to town for someone to train it. However the Allies thread is rather specific on it so that would require a rules change to implement it.
Luni 09-12-05, 01:49 PM	For the Nature Guild (and other guilds too) I would like to see alternative entry requirements next to the ever-present skill ranks. If I made a Dwarven Cleric of Obad-Hai with 10 Int, I would love to enter him in the Nature's Guild, but would be unable to until he reached 7th lvl, and that's with him focusing exclusively on the required skills. I have a few 10 Int characters, and with few skill points to go around, I would hate to see most guilds barred to them. I don't want to chase out the low int characters, but take a look at Prestige Classes though. You won't see very many wizard Assassins. I think 5 ranks is a good start for guild entry. Thats what TAO and GSIS have set-up. I think Guildlords doesn't want us to go to a 5 rank or 2.5 CC rank system.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-12-05, 01:59 PM	@Luni Perhaps a 'Non humanoid' guild? That'd accept tieflings and aasimars, as well as elan's, half-giant's, shaguain.. etc ;) @ToK Why did you change the requirements for GSIS!?! I set up Tatyana specifically to be able to join with the old requirements =/ <grumble grumble> Yes, i wanted to post about this. @ALL: Those who've set up their characters to be molded around the old G.S.I.S. requirements can move their skills around to match the new one. The reason Gonbow, for the changes were that the way i had it, it was too general and easy to get in. In restrospect, it's theoreticaly possible, i could have had almost EVERY character as a member, while the other guilds try to struggle on with just a few. Now i know that wouldn't be the case, but it was nonetheless still possible. Cat and I went over the requirements with a fine-toothed comb and came up with the final product. In fact all guilds will follow G.S.I.S. as a role-model: A particular set of requirements that focus around their main objective. This way you still get a variety of classes, but isn't "all encompassing". Oh, i don't think Cat mentioned it, but we are only accepting four guilds for now. G.S.I.S. and T.A.O. have already been approved (obviously) and we are accepting ideas for two more. Please don't be shy, but we reserve the final right for yea/nae of said guild. -ToK
Tellish_of_Ket 09-12-05, 02:05 PM	I think it still stands, that you can't have two characters in one campain, that would make the roleplaing of campains ... less interesting. But I see no reasons to forbit this for (short) quests. It was at first a bit of an experiment to see if it could be done properly without throwing the balance off scale. It seems to have worked fine, and i wasn't the first to try it either...but i did follow suit. As of now, you can't have two of the same players in a campaign. And as for the quests, unless you are the only questor, then no as well. Hope this helps. -ToK
Luni 09-12-05, 02:23 PM	@Caterane: Do you want the guild PM to be sent to Caterane, Pitlords or Guildlords? Nature Oriented Guild - The Living Tree? Requirements: Any neutral Skills: 5 ranks in Any two of [Know: Nature; Ride; Handle Animal; Survival; Swim] Token: When the guild is in possession of its token all members may earn money from the above skills. By teaching, you recieve a stipend of (Take10+skill modifier)*ECL per week as a free activity. The token can be lost by loosing a guild challenge. If the token is lost, members may take no free activities the following week, nor may they craft more then 1000 gp that week. OR They may reduce the CR of an ANIMAL Ally by 1 CR. Mininum CR 1. I'm throwing the idea hat out to all of you. I have the basic, but would like to have a better name.
sloisel 09-12-05, 02:34 PM	Hey Xanadu, here's a hint. When it seems like everybody is breaking a rule, the first thing to check is whether you understand the rule. In this case, if you had read the rules of gladius: allies post (as well as the following post), you would've seen that warhorses can be purchased and that purchased allies have nothing to do with handle animal. For instance, a pegasus can be obtained in three ways. By purchasing it, with handle animal by miniquesting for it, or by the leadership feat. Don't ask me why you can't get it with the diplomacy skill, even though it has an intelligence of 10. Now go back and fix your boo boo. Sébastien Loisel
Caterane 09-12-05, 02:58 PM	@Luni: A Nature's Guild would work very well but it needs to be restricted like the other 3 Guilds are restricted to a narrowed field. You can't have any character in there. Here are the requirements for the other three Guilds: GSIS: 5 ranks in gather information, bluff, knowledge local, any city profession TAO: 5 ranks in spellcraft and two knowledge skills, cast 2nd lvl arcane spells EHTC: 5 ranks in bluff, sense motive, appraise; non-good alignment As you can see, these requirements are not automatically met by anyone. It makes sure that only builds related to the theme can enter. Similarily, it doesn't take away characters from other guilds. Tok wanted to have melee guys and spellcasters for his guild, and Vath wanted clerics and rogues in the Order. That's not good. Finally, guilds need to be balanced against non-guild characters. That means, you need to make some sacrifices to enter hence the difficult requirements. And such should be the requirements of a nature's guild. On the positive side, you'll probably find many members pretty easily. Example Suggestion from the top of my head: 5 ranks in Survival, Handle Animal, Knowledge nature; Wild empathy class feature. That means, druids and rangers can join very easily, while barbarians with a level druid or ranger can also join, as can nature clerics at later levels (just like it should be). You'll have good melee guys and divine spellcasters. That's not bad imo. The Benefit needs to be considered carefully. +1/ECL to Handle Animal is probably the best one, and the -1 CR for animals as a Power Token (top ranking guild). I'd like to discuss that with you thoroughly though. If you have a Yahoo handle, contact me. Else, by PM.
NiQil 09-12-05, 03:18 PM	@Caterane: Do you want the guild PM to be sent to Caterane, Pitlords or Guildlords? Nature Oriented Guild - The Living Tree? Requirements: Any neutral Skills: 5 ranks in Any two of [Know: Nature; Ride; Handle Animal; Survival; Swim] Token: When the guild is in possession of its token all members may earn money from the above skills. By teaching, you recieve a stipend of (Take10+skill modifier)*ECL per week as a free activity. The token can be lost by loosing a guild challenge. If the token is lost, members may take no free activities the following week, nor may they craft more then 1000 gp that week. OR They may reduce the CR of an ANIMAL Ally by 1 CR. Mininum CR 1. I'm throwing the idea hat out to all of you. I have the basic, but would like to have a better name. The Treehuggers? LOL just kidding You could always borrow from Tolkien and call it Entmoot A few other ideas off the top of my head: Circle of the Sun Keepers of the Forest (could even tie this one in with the forest north of Gladius in the World thread) Guardians of Life (although this one might sound like it requires a good alignment as well) The Tree Whisperers (sorry, couldn't resist LOL)
xanadu 09-12-05, 03:28 PM	Sloisel The thing is I am not making an attempt to handle the animal on my own. I am spending lots of gold on a trainer to do this for me. All I simply did was go on a miniquest and delivered the animal I wanted to the trainer for him to train it. I guess I am confused why people can go out, beat up a random animal with non-lethal damage and then handle it whereas I seemingly cant go out, beat-up an animal with non-lethal damage and then hand it over to a trained professional to handle it.
Cerebus13 09-12-05, 03:33 PM	Sloisel The thing is I am not making an attempt to handle the animal on my own. I am spending lots of gold on a trainer to do this for me. All I simply did was go on a miniquest and delivered the animal I wanted to the trainer for him to train it. I guess I am confused why people can go out, beat up a random animal with non-lethal damage and then handle it whereas I seemingly cant go out, beat-up an animal with non-lethal damage and then hand it over to a trained professional to handle it.This question was raised in the Tavern earlier xanadu, but the rules are made this way to force people without Handle Animal ranks to purchase animal allies instead of saving the money by going on a Mini-Quest. It seems silly that a skill is required for me to be able to knock a horse unconscious, but apparently it is a rare art that only few can master :P .
xanadu 09-12-05, 03:52 PM	This question was raised in the Tavern earlier xanadu, but the rules are made this way to force people without Handle Animal ranks to purchase animal allies instead of saving the money by going on a Mini-Quest. It seems silly that a skill is required for me to be able to knock a horse unconscious, but apparently it is a rare art that only few can master :P . Especially since there is a rule in the SRD which accounts for that. OK, I was not aware of that discussion. I thought the handle animal values there were for to actually train the animals yourself [yeah, I know silly me for thinking the skill would actually be used for the explicit purpose it is meant for, I will say 3 Hail Marys to absolve myself of my sins]. Now, if we can reopen the discussion as I have a slight point that I feel is relevant: Don't we think we are valuing the handle animal skill just a bit too much in relation to other skills? If I have a 15 modifier in handle animal, I can go out, get, and train a Hippogryff for absolutely nothing and save 4000 GPs in the process. If I have a 15 modifier in profession I can make 75 GP. If I have a 15 modifer in Knowledge (nature) I can identify the quicksand I'll never see in Gladius. If I have 15 ranks in gather information I can do nothing. I'd need a 24 charisma, max ranks, and a tool to get the 15 modifier in the first place :weep:
sloisel 09-12-05, 03:56 PM	Sloisel The thing is I am not making an attempt to handle the animal on my own. I wasn't talking about your mount, although you're going to need to fix that too. I was talking about this insanity. Sébastien Loisel
TelinArtho 09-12-05, 04:40 PM	Actually Xanadu, I think the benefits of Handle Animal are well balanced. Anything you can get with Handle Animal is limited to be brought into the arena in several ways: 1. You need to have the appropriate skill modifier. For a 3rd level character, I've managed to get it up to +11. Although higher is possible - it definitely isn't common. 2. You are limited by the ECL-2 or CR-4,1 rule. As a 3rd-5th level character you can only bring into the arena allies that are CR1 or less. No matter what your skill modifier is - those CR2+ creatures just aren't available to bring in. 3. You are limited by either a miniquest (which is ECL-2 max) or a quest (which will cost you 3 credits). 4. Even after you get the creature you must be able to train it or have the money to train it. This was an unfortunate side to the +11 I had as a starting character - I need a +15 to train a non-standard animal in the fighting techniques. 5. You must spend the time to train the beast in question (1 week/trick). Usually this means it will take a minimum of 4 weeks to get it "battle ready" from the time you decide to quest for it.
sloisel 09-12-05, 04:55 PM	Something I just realized, and I'm not sure I'm reading this right but -- According to the SRD, training a pegasus (for instance) takes 6 weeks and costs 1000gp. But the way the Allies section is written, it appears like it takes 6 weeks and costs 6000gp. Am I reading that right? Is that a house rule, an accident or is there something I don't understand about the SRD? Note that as intelligent creatures (int 10) who understand common, pegasi don't learn tricks. Sébastien Loisel
Vathelokai 09-12-05, 05:12 PM	@Sloisel: Has the Jodan/Mrs. Buttmunch fight been posted yet? Did I miss it?
TelinArtho 09-12-05, 05:43 PM	FYI - I am open to do questlording from now on, possibly two at a time. PM me if you are interested in setting up a quest for one of your characters. /d
xanadu 09-12-05, 06:37 PM	Actually Xanadu, I think the benefits of Handle Animal are well balanced. Anything you can get with Handle Animal is limited to be brought into the arena in several ways: 1. You need to have the appropriate skill modifier. For a 3rd level character, I've managed to get it up to +11. Although higher is possible - it definitely isn't common. 2. You are limited by the ECL-2 or CR-4,1 rule. As a 3rd-5th level character you can only bring into the arena allies that are CR1 or less. No matter what your skill modifier is - those CR2+ creatures just aren't available to bring in. 3. You are limited by either a miniquest (which is ECL-2 max) or a quest (which will cost you 3 credits). 4. Even after you get the creature you must be able to train it or have the money to train it. This was an unfortunate side to the +11 I had as a starting character - I need a +15 to train a non-standard animal in the fighting techniques. 5. You must spend the time to train the beast in question (1 week/trick). Usually this means it will take a minimum of 4 weeks to get it "battle ready" from the time you decide to quest for it. I completely disagree. The benefits you gain from a high handle animal modfier trump every other skill combined with the possible exception of UMD. What other skill allows a gladiator to circumvent thousands and thousands of gold pieces for no logical reason? I dont need an obscene handle animal skill to hunt down and animal and give it to a trainer, I'm sorry. Even use magic device at least makes you pay for all the items you intend on using. Handle animal avoids this! What you are basically saying with your points is that you need to have a high handle animal modifier to reap benefits and those benefits are still constrained by the ally limits. This is completely irrelevant to my point. If I have a +15 handle animal modifier I can circumvent 4000 GPs for having an exotic ally. Period. The aquisition of a creature has nothing to do with the handle animal skill; it's used for training. The handle animal skill should allow you to bypass the 1000 gp to train the ally, which I might add is still a more powerful use of a skill than any other.
Caterane 09-12-05, 07:24 PM	@Usurpator: That's a nice idea with the Gladius Weekly. It is a source for adventure hooks, and summarizes the weekly events in-game. If you want to continue to do that, I can give you a credit for being the Gladius Editor. I'd open an appropriate thread. What do you think?
Iced 09-12-05, 10:06 PM	I AM STARTING MY CAMPAIGN A WEEK FROM NEXT PAIRINGS IF EVERYTHING GOES ACCORDING TO PLAN. ALL INTERESTED PARTIES PLEASE CONTACT ME VIA PM. THE CAMPAIGN TITLE IS "MISSIONS ABROAD".
nightbanegod 09-13-05, 01:54 AM	what do you do in a pitlords situation where the rider doesnt know the enemy is baseing him but his mount has scent and knows the enemy is right on him?
Ravashack 09-13-05, 03:12 AM	Hmmmm... Looking over the rules, I have a question about allies. Do Summoned monsters or Astral Constructs fall under the "allies" rules? And if they do, how so?
xanadu 09-13-05, 04:05 AM	Hmmmm... Looking over the rules, I have a question about allies. Do Summoned monsters or Astral Constructs fall under the "allies" rules? And if they do, how so? Hi! They do not count as allies. They are simply a spell/power effect. You can summon 100 wolves if you want!
sloisel 09-13-05, 04:22 AM	what do you do in a pitlords situation where the rider doesnt know the enemy is baseing him but his mount has scent and knows the enemy is right on him? If the mount knows the defend trick and if the mount knows that this is an enemy then it will defend the rider? Sébastien Loisel
TheMagister 09-13-05, 05:13 AM	Not sure where to post this, and don't wanna bother Cat with it if I don't have to. On Torgirr Hammerstriker [ECL 3]: I'm changing my favored enemy (goblinoids) to favored enemy (giants) since I haven't used it yet. There just aren't that many goblinoid characters here, and Torgirr will need all the help he can get when he finally goes up against one of those half-giant psychic warriors... TM
Sindorin 09-13-05, 09:30 AM	Always remember that that's what this place is designed for - optimization. If there's something you want different on your character and it hasn't been used or played any factor whatsoever, go ahead and change it.
Snommelp 09-13-05, 01:52 PM	Guild idea: could we bring back the Monk's Abbey? Would anyone be interested in that?
NiQil 09-13-05, 01:56 PM	Since Cat has limited the guilds to 4 at the present time, I kinda doubt it, since we already have 4. But I agree...the Monk's Abbey or something similar to it would be a good guild to have around....maybe something that just catered to grapplers (of which monks generally are) like the School for Unarmed Combat or something....that way it's not *just monks, as the name Monk's Abbey implies.
Altaris13 09-13-05, 01:56 PM	Guild idea: could we bring back the Monk's Abbey? Would anyone be interested in that? Zamier would be up for membership, perhaps. Going on a Quest costs 1 credit per week. This is under the Quest section in the Character's thread. According to the Rules, I thought quests cost a one time fee of 3 credits? Is it really one per week for a quest?
NiQil 09-13-05, 02:05 PM	If there was a guild for grapplers or something, Methos would definitely be interested....I had him geared up for the GSIS, but now that the requirements have changes so drastically, I don't see any way I would be able to modify the character enough to be able to get in there. Depending upon the requirements of The Living Tree, I may try and get Caspian in there...will have to wait and see. Kinda sucks that the requirements for the guilds are being changed so drastically from what they were....characters are either going to have to be modified heavily to meet the requirements, or redone entirely if they want to join.
NiQil 09-13-05, 02:06 PM	Zamier would be up for membership, perhaps. This is under the Quest section in the Character's thread. According to the Rules, I thought quests cost a one time fee of 3 credits? Is it really one per week for a quest? I've always wondered that myself. The total is the same, since quests are always 3 week events...3 credits....but that post makes it sound as if you pay 1 a week instead of 3 all at once. I wonder if we can get Cat to clarify that one way or the other.
TelinArtho 09-13-05, 02:09 PM	Quests are 1 per week (easy way to check is the credit breakdowns that Cat provides after each pairings). This is better than a one time cost of 3 credits because if you or your questlord have to cancel the quest - you don't pay in advance for weeks that you haven't yet completed.
NiQil 09-13-05, 02:10 PM	Quests are 1 per week (easy way to check is the credit breakdowns that Cat provides after each pairings). This is better than a one time cost of 3 credits because if you or your questlord have to cancel the quest - you don't pay in advance for weeks that you haven't yet completed. Too bad you can't do campaigns the same way...1 credit a week for the first 5 weeks...
Gonbow 09-13-05, 02:27 PM	Re: Monk's Abbey But of course! Santos is on standby to join any such organization. Re: GSIS changing requirements Yeah, I'm in a similar position with Tatyana. I dumped skill points into stealth skills to qualify for one of the branches, only to find that I'll have to get Bluff and bunch of other crazy things too. At 5 ranks no less =/ Maybe a new guild will open that is friendly to spies... >.> If you read through the old old guilds, you'll note a terrorist organization. Anyone want to create a foil to GSIS? :P
Altaris13 09-13-05, 02:33 PM	Quests are 1 per week (easy way to check is the credit breakdowns that Cat provides after each pairings). This is better than a one time cost of 3 credits because if you or your questlord have to cancel the quest - you don't pay in advance for weeks that you haven't yet completed. Nifty!
NiQil 09-13-05, 02:35 PM	Re: Monk's Abbey But of course! Santos is on standby to join any such organization. Re: GSIS changing requirements Yeah, I'm in a similar position with Tatyana. I dumped skill points into stealth skills to qualify for one of the branches, only to find that I'll have to get Bluff and bunch of other crazy things too. At 5 ranks no less =/ Maybe a new guild will open that is friendly to spies... >.> If you read through the old old guilds, you'll note a terrorist organization. Anyone want to create a foil to GSIS? :P The thing I find really odd about the GSIS requirements is that, outside of rogues and maybe rangers and bards, unless you are building a character specifically to campaign with, most characters are not going to have the spare skill points to burn in the skills needed to join that guild and still be functional in the arena. And, while rangers are popular here because they are martially oriented...we don't see many rogues or bards. And with The Living Tree opening as well, I see more rangers going there than into the GSIS. So, at first blush, it seems like the GSIS is going to be hurting for members with its current requirements.
Altaris13 09-13-05, 02:52 PM	How do you (the player) figure out how much XP you could earn on a quest? I see the rules for treasure, but nothing about XP? If you choose an EL, do the three fights equal that EL, or is EACH fight the requested EL?
Luni 09-13-05, 02:55 PM	How do you (the player) figure out how much XP you could earn on a quest? I see the rules for treasure, but nothing about XP? If you choose an EL, do the three fights equal that EL, or is EACH fight the requested EL? Each Fight! Therefore an ECL 3 character going on an EL 3 quest gets [3*900 xp & gold] + 33% bonus.
Luni 09-13-05, 03:25 PM	I think I'm going to have the first character dead in a campaign! Lady Tira vs a Wyvern. Not good :weep:
King Uther 09-13-05, 03:31 PM	@Altaris You can always PM me, as I am the official ruler of Quests.
Gonbow 09-13-05, 03:32 PM	I think I'm going to have the first character dead in a campaign! Lady Tira vs a Wyvern. Not good :weep: Wyverns vrs any random person in the campaign. Not good. =/ But even if you die we will obviously ressurect you! Nic has plenty of free gold to spen don the spell.
Altaris13 09-13-05, 03:37 PM	@Altaris You can always PM me, as I am the official ruler of Quests. OH, supa nifty. :D I didn't realize that. I'm talking with Telin about a Quest I'd like to go on, so you'll hear from us soon I guess? As in, we need your approval for the quest, correct?
SoulLord 09-13-05, 04:00 PM	A familiar has the same skill ranks as it's master now what I was wondering is if a familiar can tumble as part of it's movement? Even if this movement is flying or the like.
Iced 09-13-05, 05:22 PM	I've had two, I need 4 characters to start on the 21st. So far I have an applied rogue and one applied wizard. I'm looking for a party with one rogue (or the like, something with similar skills), 1 Character that can provide healing (probable divine spellcaster most likely cleric), 1 martial oriented character (monk, barbarian, psychic warrior etc.), and 1 other applicant (most likely a primary spellcaster or psionic character) Missions Abroad Starts on the 21st, pm me with applications comments or concerns. thanks, ~Iced
Snommelp 09-13-05, 05:31 PM	I'd love to, Iced, but both my characters are Good. Re: Monk's Abbey I didn't know that Guilds were currently limited to 4, but this can still be on the back-burner. For requirements, I was thinking Lawful (any), Improved Unarmed Strike, Wisdom 12 or better, must quest to join. Some non-monks can join, but it will still be monk-like.
Altaris13 09-13-05, 05:32 PM	I'd like to beseach my fellow gladiatorial players for some help (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=501115) optimizing a Diviner over on the CO board.
Snommelp 09-13-05, 05:37 PM	This is something that will be happening in the distant future, I think, but if I wanted to Mini-Quest to kill a full-blooded giant, what's the minimum ECL my character would have to be? What about if I changed it from a Mini-Quest to a full blown Quest?
NiQil 09-13-05, 05:38 PM	I'd love to, Iced, but both my characters are Good. Re: Monk's Abbey I didn't know that Guilds were currently limited to 4, but this can still be on the back-burner. For requirements, I was thinking Lawful (any), Improved Unarmed Strike, Wisdom 12 or better, must quest to join. Some non-monks can join, but it will still be monk-like. I think that this is a great start...but Guildlords might want it a little narrower, since with those criteria, any paladin with IUS would probably get in, and clerics/druids/rangers the same. Might want to add something to narrow it down...maybe require Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple also. Still primarily monk based, but will allow other grapplers in.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-13-05, 05:43 PM	I think I'm going to have the first character dead in a campaign! Lady Tira vs a Wyvern. Not good :weep: Honestly, you guys had horrible rolls. IMHO, you guys should have EASILY killed one and close to having killed the second. Nicolae, never hitting once in 3 rounds, Zahrat missing 2 ranged touch attacks. You guys all have low ac's. When you think of just your missed rolls from two pc's alone...3d8+9;2d6+8. Median dmg, that is 37.5, which is ample dmg to kill BOTH wyverns you guys are fighting. If you weren't a religious person before, you might wanna start now. lol -ToK
Usurpator 09-13-05, 05:44 PM	@Usurpator: That's a nice idea with the Gladius Weekly. It is a source for adventure hooks, and summarizes the weekly events in-game. If you want to continue to do that, I can give you a credit for being the Gladius Editor. I'd open an appropriate thread. What do you think? Thanks! I am going to try and continue it for at least three weeks, to see if everybody enjoys it, tweak the format a little and see if I can commit to such a thing. Call it an experimental phase if you will. My ideas for the format are: 1. Current Events The newsletter start with one or more events of the past week, be it rules discussions, bookings in the prison, new ideas for formats etc. etc. All translated into in-game lingo of course. The first three articles in my first newsletter are of this type. 2. Survey Each week I like to include some kind of statistical survey, highlighting a particular aspect of CoCo's gladiators, once again translated into in-game lingo. The article about the Mithril Shortage is an example of that 3. Fight Reports Each week I would like to highlight one or more arena fights. Amazing Victory, Foolish Loss and Hotly Contested could be categories falling under this heading. 4. Campaign Reports I would like to include a brief report whenever a campaign is started, preferably written by the campaignlord that summarizes in a few handy sentences what the campaign is about. I would like to post a similar report halfway and one at the wrap-up of a campaign. I found that reading campaign logs here is hard work when you're not participating, and it costs time to separate the wheat from the chaff. I myself would very much like such brief update to give an idea what's going on without having to scroll through hundreds of posts. I would like to keep all the articles brief and easy to read at a glance. I would like the tone not to be to serious, it should be a fairly light read. What do you all think, any other ideas, contributors?
Luni 09-13-05, 05:55 PM	I like it Usurpator. How about adding a Hot Streak Section: Lists all gladiators that have won 3 fights in a row. I suggest a Cold streak as well, but some people might get upset... Oh, and a section on challenges. Such as, someone foolish challenges Balbanes...
Caterane 09-13-05, 05:56 PM	The Monk's Abbey would be a good idea for a guild. It would mainly hold monks and fists of zuoken but also some who focus on the monk way, grapplers perhaps. Keep that idea in mind for later. For the next few weeks however I'd like to limit guilds to 4 to see how they work. The next guilds should focus on psionics, monks, or melee guys in general, and archers. Guilds are a good way to boost build concepts that are a bit at a disadvantage here. Therefore the EHTC and GSIS tokens are a bit more powerful than those of the other two guilds. Re: GSIS. Please note that the GSIS has a powerful token. With the gather information bonus you can get a lot for free in the Blackmarket. The GSIS requirements are as easy to meet for bards and rogues as druids and rangers can join TLT or sorcerers and wizards TAO. Basically everyone with a single level in rogue could join the GSIS easily. @NiQil: I deduct 1° per week for a Quest. PS: Leave the paladins for me. The Celestial Forces are coming back soon ;)
NiQil 09-13-05, 06:19 PM	The Monk's Abbey would be a good idea for a guild. It would mainly hold monks and fists of zuoken but also some who focus on the monk way, grapplers perhaps. Keep that idea in mind for later. For the next few weeks however I'd like to limit guilds to 4 to see how they work. The next guilds should focus on psionics, monks, or melee guys in general, and archers. Guilds are a good way to boost build concepts that are a bit at a disadvantage here. Therefore the EHTC and GSIS tokens are a bit more powerful than those of the other two guilds. Re: GSIS. Please note that the GSIS has a powerful token. With the gather information bonus you can get a lot for free in the Blackmarket. The GSIS requirements are as easy to meet for bards and rogues as druids and rangers can join TLT or sorcerers and wizards TAO. Basically everyone with a single level in rogue could join the GSIS easily. @NiQil: I deduct 1° per week for a Quest. PS: Leave the paladins for me. The Celestial Forces are coming back soon ;) That was my point...focus the Monk's Abbey (would probably need a new name, too) on grapplers....several divine casters have Improved Unarmed Strike, but not many also have Improved Grapple. Requiring those two feats, in addition to the other requirements Snommelp mentioned, would narrow the field more than enough, without narrowing it too much. Psychic warriors with those feats could still get in, as could fighters geared towards grappling. But it helps keep out those that aren't grappler builds in design, which is what I think the intent of a guild like this should be. Maybe call it the Hand-to-Hand Training Center....or something along those lines but slightly less corny.
Snommelp 09-13-05, 06:20 PM	I think that this is a great start...but Guildlords might want it a little narrower, since with those criteria, any paladin with IUS would probably get in, and clerics/druids/rangers the same. Might want to add something to narrow it down...maybe require Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple also. Still primarily monk based, but will allow other grapplers in. Some monks might choose stunning fist instead, though, and I want this open to all monks. Any Paladin who fits those criteria is monkish enough for me, and the same for lawful clerics/druids/rangers who decide to give up a feat that might be needed elsewhere. Besides, they might want to join Celestial Protectors instead. If guildlords wants me to narrow it, I'll think of something, but right now I like it like this. @ Cat: understood. It's in planning with the intent of being put lower on the CoCo to-do list. Also:This is something that will be happening in the distant future, I think, but if I wanted to Mini-Quest to kill a full-blooded giant, what's the minimum ECL my character would have to be? What about if I changed it from a Mini-Quest to a full blown Quest?
xanadu 09-13-05, 06:27 PM	Yes, Usurpator, keep up the Gladius news :thumbsup:
Caterane 09-13-05, 06:38 PM	1° for a good thread picture for the upcoming "Gladius Weekly" thread.
Mind Rogue 09-13-05, 08:18 PM	Honestly, you guys had horrible rolls. IMHO, you guys should have EASILY killed one and close to having killed the second. Nicolae, never hitting once in 3 rounds, Zahrat missing 2 ranged touch attacks. You guys all have low ac's. When you think of just your missed rolls from two pc's alone...3d8+9;2d6+8. Median dmg, that is 37.5, which is ample dmg to kill BOTH wyverns you guys are fighting. If you weren't a religious person before, you might wanna start now. lol -ToK Umm, my Produce Flame actually deals 1d6+5 damage (so two misses is actually 2d6+10). Did I forget to update that when I leveled up?
Huan 09-13-05, 09:15 PM	@Usurpator If you ever need to a get a "week in review" synopsis for all the campaigns currently going on, just ask me... I regularly keep up with all of them, especially seeing as how Campaigns are my Domain. Otherwise, cool idea and good luck!
Sindorin 09-13-05, 09:41 PM	Theoretically, wouldn't the people of Gladius not know what is going on in the campaigns since they don't take place in Gladius?
Luni 09-13-05, 09:44 PM	Theoretically, wouldn't the people of Gladius not know what is going on in the campaigns since they don't take place in Gladius? Magic! Everyone knows that the people of Gladius have Imps in a Adamantine Box, to give them their choice of Soap operas: A Histoy Lesson: Season 1 <Historical Documentary> The Grand Heists: <Action> The Arbiter War: <Sci Fi> Drums of War? A New Threat?
Sindorin 09-13-05, 09:57 PM	Oh my. I've messed around a little with "soap opera stuff" before, intertwining little love stories between my characters... Tair Malek and Illyx Solus were one example... I'm hoping KU is up for goofing around with Virgo and Va'ria.
Sindorin 09-13-05, 11:22 PM	In other news, I have finally broken whatever seal has always been around my head (what?) and posted a druid... I've never played a druid before, so please keep that in mind and be nice... Mokoridos, The Winter (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7242224&postcount=467) I'm looking for a good image. Let me know if you have a good one.
Vathelokai 09-13-05, 11:34 PM	I think I'm going to have the first character dead in a campaign! Lady Tira vs a Wyvern. Not good :weep: Hey, I'm the one with 1 hp standing right in front of the wyvern. Hopefully, Nic will be as generous about resurecting Denshi as he is with Tira :)
King Uther 09-14-05, 01:43 AM	Announcement: Balbanes has two useless feats, because he has tranformed into something different than I originally thought. Mounted COmbat and Mounted Archery will be traded out, because I never used either feat, not even once. I only brought my mount in battle twice, and didn't use my ride skill for anything except pressing combat.
Caterane 09-14-05, 06:52 AM	Announcement: Balbanes has two useless feats, because he has tranformed into something different than I originally thought. Mounted COmbat and Mounted Archery will be traded out, because I never used either feat, not even once. I only brought my mount in battle twice, and didn't use my ride skill for anything except pressing combat. Ok. Please link this post.
Caterane 09-14-05, 06:54 AM	...
Vathelokai 09-14-05, 06:54 AM	In other news, I have finally broken whatever seal has always been around my head (what?) and posted a druid... I've never played a druid before, so please keep that in mind and be nice... Mokoridos, The Winter (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7242224&postcount=467) I'm looking for a good image. Let me know if you have a good one. Your MW armor tools should cost 55gp. Unless you go questing, the scroll of endure elements seems like a waste. I'd tweak the spells memorized, but thats a personal choice.
Caterane 09-14-05, 07:06 AM	@ALL: Please come all to the Council of Gladius to participate in the discussion about Living Guilds.
sloisel 09-14-05, 07:12 AM	In other news, I have finally broken whatever seal has always been around my head (what?) and posted a druid... I've never played a druid before, so please keep that in mind and be nice... Mokoridos, The Winter (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7242224&postcount=467) I'm looking for a good image. Let me know if you have a good one. This character brings up a question I've been posing myself for a while. There's a bunch of effects that force you to use more power points than you thought. In the case of this character, it's the psionic hole feat, but there's also the power catapsi, the wilder psychic enervation, a few items... If you have a character with lots of pp but only 4 pp left in his "usable" pool and unbeknownst to you your opponent has one of these effects on (say, catapsi and you fail the will save) and you manifest a 1pp power, do you: 1) End up using 5pp and that's that? (Catapsi is like "pp damage"?) You're out of pp's for this fight? 2) You're not allowed to use your power if there's a chance catapsi might cost you more than your usable quota? Same for psychic enervation; do you need to save enough usable pp's to pay for psychic enervation? Does psychic enervation count at all towards "usable" pp's? Sébastien Loisel
sloisel 09-14-05, 07:18 AM	1° for a good thread picture for the upcoming "Gladius Weekly" thread. Here I come! Is there a theme? http://www.digitalmediafx.com/News2001/Images/MonstersAd.jpg http://www.uh.edu/engines/readingthepaper.jpg http://www.le.ac.uk/li/images/reading%20paper.gif http://www.tate.org.uk/collection/N/N03/N03690_9.jpg http://www.doganart.com/resimler/TCafe/Reading%20newspaper%20in%20cofee%20house .jpg http://images.animationfactory.com/imagedir/animations/people_m_z/miscellaneous/man_reading_newspaper/man_reading_newspaper_hr.jpg http://www.india-picture.com/people2/images/brahmin1.jpg http://www.susanneangst.com/Frank_Buchser/images/fff_Part_IV/black%20youth%20%20reading%20the%20newsp aper%20on%20%20barrel.JPG
Caterane 09-14-05, 07:26 AM	LOL I'd prefer a newspaper that has Gladius Weekly as header but there can be other good pictures for it too.
Guildmaster (TAO) 09-14-05, 08:02 AM	@Sloisel: Think you could just put the links, instead of a whole page of pictures? @Guildmasters: I had a random idea while looking through avatars. There are a number of symbol avatars, in hecatomb, d&d, eberon, etc. I thought it would be neat to have the guilds pick a logo, instead of a person as the avatar, then it could work as an IC symbol of the guild. Any thoughts? If nobody likes it, then no worries.
Caterane 09-14-05, 09:27 AM	I like it but some might be picked by other members already.
Sindorin 09-14-05, 09:27 AM	Your MW armor tools should cost 55gp. Unless you go questing, the scroll of endure elements seems like a waste. I'd tweak the spells memorized, but thats a personal choice. Ah, the MW armor tools was definitely a typo, thanks for the catch. I also didn't realize Soften Earth and Stone only lasts a short while.
Caterane 09-14-05, 09:29 AM	@Guilds: You should reserve up to post 10 just to be on the safe side. If we use the new ideas there's a lot to add.
Sindorin 09-14-05, 09:32 AM	This character brings up a question I've been posing myself for a while. There's a bunch of effects that force you to use more power points than you thought. In the case of this character, it's the psionic hole feat, but there's also the power catapsi, the wilder psychic enervation, a few items... If you have a character with lots of pp but only 4 pp left in his "usable" pool and unbeknownst to you your opponent has one of these effects on (say, catapsi and you fail the will save) and you manifest a 1pp power, do you: 1) End up using 5pp and that's that? (Catapsi is like "pp damage"?) You're out of pp's for this fight? 2) You're not allowed to use your power if there's a chance catapsi might cost you more than your usable quota? Same for psychic enervation; do you need to save enough usable pp's to pay for psychic enervation? Does psychic enervation count at all towards "usable" pp's? Sébastien Loisel I'm pretty sure that you have to consider the extra pp required for Psionic Hole "used" thus yes, they do count against your 1/3 allotment for an arena fight. Psychic Enervation also takes from the 1/3 of your pp allowed. I know this because Sokai has fought against Jindl of the High Forest, whom I got the Psionic Hole idea from, and Sokai has enervated more than once in the arena... he actually won one of the fights he enervated in...
Pitlords 09-14-05, 10:06 AM	I'll give out 1° if someone could color the new FFA code map <here> Please use the same colors like the other Dungeon Map or the Standard Arena Map. And please exchange the 'C' with dashes that point in the appropriate direction. The center needs a statue with lava (red O). The 2 stairs on each side should be changed to one in the center. Thanks. @Vath: Is it possible to place one stair in the center than two on the edges? Would be better.
Delusional Illusion 09-14-05, 10:15 AM	Anyone got any suggestion what I should buy for my character? (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7009527) Seeing any major flaws that could be fixed with few scrolls or items? I'm a bit lost at what I should buy or should I save for something else. :embarrass
Guildmaster (TLT) 09-14-05, 11:36 AM	@Sloisel: Think you could just put the links, instead of a whole page of pictures? @Guildmasters: I had a random idea while looking through avatars. There are a number of symbol avatars, in hecatomb, d&d, eberon, etc. I thought it would be neat to have the guilds pick a logo, instead of a person as the avatar, then it could work as an IC symbol of the guild. Any thoughts? If nobody likes it, then no worries. Your just jealous of my Black Lotus! Actually, I think that is a good idea.
xanadu 09-14-05, 12:33 PM	LOL King Uther just replaced the useless stealthy feat with improved grapple on his Dire Bat
Huan 09-14-05, 01:37 PM	Anyone got any suggestion what I should buy for my character? (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7009527) Seeing any major flaws that could be fixed with few scrolls or items? I'm a bit lost at what I should buy or should I save for something else. :embarrass Saving is always a good idea, as is sketching out a possible build progression for your character. Some brief basics: Some utility scrolls like Protection from Good,Evil,Chaos, and Law, and Divine Favor,never fail. Keep a Shield of Faith scroll on hand for back-up. Also, you may want to increase the CL on your Summon scrolls to the make the short duration worth it. A tattoo of Force Screen would be good for a net Shield AC increase of +3 when you need it. Beware the scroll of Sanctuary, as it has a very low duration, and the DC for the scroll version will be the mimimum (11). The mimimum DC thing applies to all scrolls (bear that in mind for your Entangle and Command scroll too)
Huan 09-14-05, 01:39 PM	Regarding Lycanthropes, are we free to use the guidelines to make a lycanthrope for any animal? (for COCO I mean) If so, I ask only for the alignment issue. Otherwise, I may assume the default Neutral alignment is to be used.
Sindorin 09-14-05, 02:30 PM	LOL King Uther just replaced the useless stealthy feat with improved grapple on his Dire Bat Hmm... that's a good idea... *runs off to check ElidocorC's feats*
Delusional Illusion 09-14-05, 02:47 PM	*Wise advice* Thanks alot :D These are just the kind of things I needed. Hmm... I better start looking into those matters..
Gonbow 09-14-05, 03:05 PM	Regarding Lycanthropes, are we free to use the guidelines to make a lycanthrope for any animal? (for COCO I mean) If so, I ask only for the alignment issue. Otherwise, I may assume the default Neutral alignment is to be used. Not all animals can be made into lycanthropes; They are stipulations in the lycanthrope section which keep you from becoming a herbivore (I think this was the stipulation. Something like that). And moreover, the size limitation has to be observed. Thus you cant have a Human or Dwarf Werecat, but Halfing Werecats and Gnome Werecats are just dandy.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-14-05, 03:07 PM	Regarding Lycanthropes, are we free to use the guidelines to make a lycanthrope for any animal? (for COCO I mean) If so, I ask only for the alignment issue. Otherwise, I may assume the default Neutral alignment is to be used. The rules for creating a Lycanthrope are in the MM, and yup...you can create any lycan you wish within those guidelines. Default neutrality would be assumed. -ToK
Luni 09-14-05, 03:09 PM	Halfling Were-Ravens!
xanadu 09-14-05, 05:44 PM	:rofl: :rofl: Mokoridos's crocodile has deflect arrows as a feat!! :rofl: :rofl: Apparently he catches them in his teeth :D
Sindorin 09-14-05, 06:17 PM	hell yizzle... too bad it doesn't have flurry of blows though.
Altaris13 09-14-05, 08:14 PM	Hey Cat, I've never used the Armorsmithing for Aeryn. I'm going to change that to weaponsmithing, okie dokie? After my fight, of course.
Iced 09-14-05, 10:11 PM	I AM STARTING MY CAMPAIGN NEXT PAIRINGS IF EVERYTHING GOES ACCORDING TO PLAN. ALL INTERESTED PARTIES PLEASE CONTACT ME VIA PM. THE CAMPAIGN TITLE IS "MISSIONS ABROAD". EL 3-4 You want to be a member of the E.H.T.C. Non-good alignment
Tellish_of_Ket 09-15-05, 01:57 AM	Halfling Were-Ravens! Pixie were-ravens!! -ToK
Luni 09-15-05, 02:06 AM	Pixie were-ravens!! -ToK I'm going to go make one right now! Edit: Wait. Fey are immune to Lycanthropy!
Tellish_of_Ket 09-15-05, 02:22 AM	I'm going to go make one right now! Edit: Wait. Fey are immune to Lycanthropy! BAH!! Stupid humanoid/giants restriction. -ToK
Luni 09-15-05, 02:27 AM	BAH!! Stupid humanoid/giants restriction. -ToK I'm working on a Troll Weretyrannosaur. Only an ECL of 32!
Caterane 09-15-05, 07:09 AM	@all: You know that customizing a creature costs credits!! If you haven't payed in the Blackmarket, you don't own it. Hey Cat, I've never used the Armorsmithing for Aeryn. I'm going to change that to weaponsmithing, okie dokie? After my fight, of course. Oki dokie
Vathelokai 09-15-05, 07:34 AM	I'll give out 1° if someone could color the new FFA code map <here> @Vath: Is it possible to place one stair in the center than two on the edges? Would be better. Updated. Are the stairs wide enough?
Caterane 09-15-05, 08:36 AM	I can't see a difference. I meant one stair on each side in the center, instead of two stairs. And the map needs to be colored.
Vathelokai 09-15-05, 08:47 AM	Sorry, don't have time to do anything with the code map.
Caterane 09-15-05, 08:50 AM	And the stairs on the jpg map?
sloisel 09-15-05, 09:21 AM	Hey Cat, did you get my PM? I forgot to write on Mrs. Buttmunch's character sheet that she was fighting this week, is it possible to fix that and get her paired? I won't be around for the next couple of weeks, but I was hoping to make it one more time before I leave. Sébastien Loisel
Vathelokai 09-15-05, 09:33 AM	And the stairs on the jpg map? I changed that. The stairs are in the center now. Did you refresh the screen?
Cerebus13 09-15-05, 09:44 AM	I think I have figured out the bug that won't allow you to expand <sblock> text when using Firefox: When declaring text within an <sblock> if you have any other tags declared outside of it (such as font or color ones) that carry on to inside of it that won't allow you to open them in Firefox. So to fix this always make sure that <sblock> is the first tag you put down and put all other tags within it.
michael_noah 09-15-05, 10:05 AM	I think I have figured out the bug that won't allow you to expand <sblock> text when using Firefox: When declaring text within an <sblock> if you have any other tags declared outside of it (such as font or color ones) that carry on to inside of it that won't allow you to open them in Firefox. So to fix this always make sure that <sblock> is the first tag you put down and put all other tags within it. Aha! Good catch!
Mind Rogue 09-15-05, 10:42 AM	:teach: Read this, NiQil
SauroGrenom 09-15-05, 11:54 AM	Hi Folks, I have a question about how to properly use the Ride and Handle Animal skills when you are in mounted combat. This has come up in a recent fight, and my reading of the rules appears to be somewhat different from that of the pitlord. So I would like to have a friendly conversation about it here so that all the details can be clearly worked out. The specific tactic I ran up against is an example of a gladiator with no ranks in either Ride or Handle Animal (and never once made a check in the battle) and my character killed him easily, but all the while was being chewed up by the horse who ended killing my gladiator. I have some doubts that this strategy is not permisable by the rules. First off, for review: the Ride skill has several special actions that can be taken that all require making a Ride check. These include staying on the horse when you take damage, or falling without taking damage, or having the horse attack, or using the mount as cover, and a few others as well. Also for review the Handle Animal skill has tricks suck as "defend" or "attack". Gladiators can take 20 on Handle Animal checks outside of combat, so they will often have their war trained animals "defend" or "attack" even if they have no ranks in the Handle Animal skill. Also the task of handle an animal has DC10 and the following effect: "This task involves commanding an animal to perform a task or trick that it knows. If the animal is wounded or has taken any nonlethal damage or ability score damage, the DC increases by 2. If your check succeeds, the animal performs the task or trick on its next action." Note it does not ever state when the effect of the trick ends, so we must infer some logical end. Obviously if a gladiator made the skill check two years ago then its effect is nolonger controlling the animal. The question of when this effect ends is central to the kind of things you can do with Handle Animal. Now lets look closely at the "defend" trick. The SDR states "The animal defends you (or is ready to defend you if no threat is present), even without any command being given. Alternatively, you can command the animal to defend a specific other character." The bolded text suggests that the animal will ready an action to attack anyone who attacks the master of the animal. As a natural consiquence if you tell the animal to do something else the "defend" trick and readied action should be cancled in place of another action. Lastly for review, in the mounted combat section of the SDR the last sentence states that "Without you to guide it, your mount avoids combat." So by my interpretation of the rules you can use the Ride skill to use an animal as a mount. That will allow you to tell the beast to move at your will and attack when you make your check. There is no prohibition about moving then attacking, then moving again and comming around for a charge. You can do all the things that the Ride skill allows, but if you fall off the horse, then the mount avoids combat and will run away from attackers. Also by my interpretation, if you use the Handle Animal skill and tell the horse to "defend" then you have to make another check when the animal takes damage (the DC increases), and you cannot tell it to move around the battle field at your will. To do so is to interupt the previous "defend" command and if you want the beast to "defend" later you will need to make another check. I suppose you could just sit on the horse while it deffends you and neither of you move. In my opinion the relationship between these two skills is simply in the synergy bonus between the skills not that you can use Handle Animal skill to instruct the mount to perform tricks that continue in persistent effect as you are riding it around the battlefield. So basically the major question is if instructing a mount to move and act as a mount will end the effect of a previous instruction to perform a trick the animal knows. As a secondary question, does a mount who is performing a trick and subsiquently looses its rider (from dying or failing a Ride check when taking damage) act as a mount and avoid battle or as a animal who will continue to perform its trick untill it is hurt.
NiQil 09-15-05, 12:04 PM	Hi Folks, I have a question about how to properly use the Ride and Handle Animal skills when you are in mounted combat. This has come up in a recent fight, and my reading of the rules appears to be somewhat different from that of the pitlord. So I would like to have a friendly conversation about it here so that all the details can be clearly worked out. The specific tactic I ran up against is an example of a gladiator with no ranks in either Ride or Handle Animal (and never once made a check in the battle) and my character killed him easily, but all the while was being chewed up by the horse who ended killing my gladiator. First off, for review: the Ride skill has several special actions that can be taken that all require making a Ride check. These include staying on the horse when you take damage, or falling without taking damage, or having the horse attack, or using the mount as cover, and a few others as well. Also for review the Handle Animal skill has tricks suck as "defend" or "attack". Gladiators can take 20 on Handle Animal checks outside of combat, so they will often have their war trained animals "defend" or "attack" even if they have no ranks in the Handle Animal skill. Also the task of handle an animal has DC10 and the following effect: "This task involves commanding an animal to perform a task or trick that it knows. If the animal is wounded or has taken any nonlethal damage or ability score damage, the DC increases by 2. If your check succeeds, the animal performs the task or trick on its next action." Note it does not ever state when the effect of the trick ends, so we must infer some logical end. Obviously if a gladiator made the skill check two years ago then its effect is nolonger controlling the animal. The quetio of when this effect ends is central to the kind of things you can do with Handle Animal. Now lets look closely at the "defend" trick. The SDR states "The animal defends you (or is ready to defend you if no threat is present), even without any command being given. Alternatively, you can command the animal to defend a specific other character." The bolded text suggests that the animal will ready an action to attack anyone who attacks the master of the animal. As a natural consiquence if you tell the animal to do something else the "defend" trick and readied action should be cancled in place of another action. Lastly for review, in the mounted combat section of the SDR the last sentence states that "Without you to guide it, your mount avoids combat." So by my interpretation of the rules you can use the Ride skill to use an animal as a mount. That will allow you to tell the beast to move at your will and attack when you make your check. There is no prohibition about moving then attacking, then moving again and comming around for a charge. You can do all the things that the Ride skill allows, but if you fall off the horse, then the mount avoids combat and will run away from attackers. Also by my interpretation, if you use the Handle Animal skill and tell the horse to "defend" then you have to make another check when the animal takes damage (the DC increases), and you cannot tell it to move around the battle field at your will. To do so is to interupt the previous "defend" command and if you want the beast to "defend" later you will need to make another check. I suppose you could just sit on the horse while it deffends you and neither of you move. In my opinion the relationship between these two skills is simply in the synergy bonus between the skills not that you can use Handle Animal skill to instruct the mount to perform tricks that continue in persistent effect as you are riding it around the battlefield. So basically the major question is if instructing a mount to move and act as a mount will end the effect of a previous instruction to perform a trick the animal knows. As a secondary question, does a mount who is performing a trick and subsiquently looses its rider (from dying or failing a Ride check when taking damage) act as a mount and avoid battle or as a animal who will continue to perform its trick untill it is hurt. If memory serves, from the Handle Animal skill, all tricks must be commanded in order for them to be performed, with the exception of the defend trick. If the rider is injured or dead, the defend trick automatically kicks in. So, in your example of your battle, if the rider was injured or dead, the defend trick would kick in, and you would be attacked as long as you continue to threaten the rider. As soon as you back away, however, the horse should break off, since your retreat then would require it to use the attack trick, which it has not been commanded to do.
TelinArtho 09-15-05, 12:13 PM	First, note that the result of the fight cannot be changed at this point. In the future - post your concerns to the appropriate FotW thread before Wednesday's pairings. As to the fight, you knocked your opponent to -13 - so he loses the fight regardless of his horse's actions on the following round. As to the ride checks and handle animal checks - they should have been made (and if they were, but simply not listed - nightbanegod should have made mention of them). However, like I said, there's not much that can be done about it now, just make sure you post concerns about fights during the week before the pairings and keep calm. Some of the pitlords are not rules experts (myself included) - and we all make mistakes. /d
SauroGrenom 09-15-05, 12:25 PM	If you could point me to where this is mentioned in the SDR, I would appreciate it. I've looked and I cannot find anything in the Handle Animal skill to the effect that the "defend" trick does not need to be commanded. And I feal that such a ruling is in direct contradiction to the presence of the "Fight with Warhorse" ability in the Ride skill if it is applied to a mount. Why would that use of the Ride skill exist is all war trained mounts attacked automatically. In the least each such attack should require a DC5 ride check to stay on the mount. Anyway if the rider is dead, then who makes the Handle Animal check? Also I still need to know what are the conditions that terminate a previous command and require a new check to get the animal to preform a trick. Finally if what you suggest is true then the line at the end of the mounted combat section in the SDR is their only for the rare moments of when a rider falls off a mount in combat but is not injured.
TelinArtho 09-15-05, 12:27 PM	Regardless of whether the defend line that you are looking for is in the SRD, you can find the rule in the Rules of Gladius under skills - Ride (which takes precedence over the SRD here).
NiQil 09-15-05, 12:47 PM	As requested Defend (DC 20): The animal defends you (or is ready to defend you if no threat is present), even without any command being given. Alternatively, you can command the animal to defend a specific other character. Emphasis mine This is why I say that if you back off from your target after killing them, the horse will not attack anymore....because you are no longer threatening the rider....and to pursue the attack would require an attack command from the rider (which they can't give if they are unconscious and/or dead)
NiQil 09-15-05, 12:53 PM	:teach: Read this, NiQil NO! :P
nightbanegod 09-15-05, 05:14 PM	my bad about the horse actually winning the fight since in the first run tenhelrim used autohypnosis and auto stabilized, thus the horse could go on fighting since it was being directly attacked by Rebreg
SauroGrenom 09-16-05, 01:32 AM	Too late now, and no hard fealings in any case. I just want to know how the rules work, so that I can plan future tactics correctly. It seams that mounted combat is kind of complicated. I was kind of wondering how grappling works against mounted opponents. It says in the grapple rules that after you win the grapple check and have a grapple going, you move into the square your opponent occupies. I was wondering if that means that you climb up on the horse, or pull them down into your space, or automatically end up in a grapple with the horse as well, or what ever? With each fight I learn about sections of the rules that I didn't previously know because they are used against me to great effect. Let's see how this next fight goes.
xanadu 09-16-05, 02:11 AM	With each fight I learn about sections of the rules that I didn't previously know because they are used against me to great effect. Let's see how this next fight goes. That should be CoCo's motto!
Delusional Illusion 09-16-05, 06:04 AM	*kicks herself* I just realized that in my earlier fight the DM may have forgotten my favored enemy bonuses to attack which might have changed the result. Stupid me :banghead: Oh well, too late to change anything. Better be more observant later on. :rolleyes:
Vathelokai 09-16-05, 06:50 AM	I was kind of wondering how grappling works against mounted opponents. It says in the grapple rules that after you win the grapple check and have a grapple going, you move into the square your opponent occupies. I was wondering if that means that you climb up on the horse, or pull them down into your space, or automatically end up in a grapple with the horse as well, or what ever? In the rules of gladius thread, there is a house rule for that, since there isn't one in the SRD. I'm pretty sure that if the grapple is successful, the rider is pulled from the mount and the two grapplers are fighting in the space next to the mount.
Emrys Donovan 09-16-05, 07:50 AM	What do you guys think of Tzur (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7264023&postcount=469)?
Tellish_of_Ket 09-16-05, 07:59 AM	What do you guys think of Tzur (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7264023&postcount=469)? You should check out the prison. He made his way there very quickly last night. -ToK
Caterane 09-16-05, 09:21 AM	LOL Sometimes I could laugh my butt of about your comments Ray
Cerebus13 09-16-05, 02:20 PM	I have discovered a small but very important piece of information within the official D&D FAQ:When grappling, you can damage your foe with your spikes by making a regular grapple check (opposed by your foe’s check). If you succeed, you deal piercing damage to your foe (see Table 7–5 in the Player’s Handbook) rather than the unarmed strike damage you’d normally deal when damaging your foe with a grapple check. Since you can use armor spikes as a light weapon, you can simply use them to attack your foe. You suffer a –4 penalty on your attack roll when attacking with a light weapon in a grapple (see page 156 in the Player’s Handbook), but if your foe is bigger or stronger than you, this might prove a better tactic than trying to deal damage through a grapple check because there is no opposed roll to make—you just have to hit your opponent’s Armor Class. You can’t attack with two weapons when grappling, even when one of those weapons is armor spikes (see the section on grappling in Chapter 8 of the Player’s Handbook).This passage indicates that the only options available for the use of Armor Spikes within a grapple is by making a regular grapple check and dealing the normal Spike damage (the "Damage Your Opponent" option), or by rolling a normal attack roll with a -4 to the check (the "Attack Your Opponent" option). The current interpretation we have been using within the CoCo is that Armor Spikes deal damage in addition to damage dealt by using the "Damage Your Opponent" grapple option. Sadly, this is wrong according to this FAQ. It is unfortunate that I only found this out now because my grappler, Guts, makes use of the extra damage granted by Armor Spikes quite often. Future plans I had for him once he was able to interative attacks now cannot include Armor Spike damage for each grapple check...so I may have to scrap him and start again :(.
TelinArtho 09-16-05, 02:37 PM	That is interesting. Before I go in and modify the fight however, I want to see that the CoCo is actually using this ruling (since I've seen it used throughout like in the fight this week between Methos and Pirotess in many other fights). Would the elders care to comment?
NiQil 09-16-05, 03:10 PM	If one was to want to take a paladin and take him into the blackguard prestige class....could the alignment change and the outsider contact both be done in the same quest, or would there have to be two seperate quests done in order to accomplish both requirements?
Cerebus13 09-16-05, 03:55 PM	If a character chose an animal template for Lycanthropy that had wings....would the character gain wings (and equivalent flight speed) when in Hybrid form?
Tellish_of_Ket 09-16-05, 04:06 PM	That is interesting. Before I go in and modify the fight however, I want to see that the CoCo is actually using this ruling (since I've seen it used throughout like in the fight this week between Methos and Pirotess in many other fights). Would the elders care to comment? Well, despite our wealth of knowledge, sometimes we do make errors. And in all honesty, that's a huge one. If the FAQ and PHB read as such then it is so. Wish i had time to independently verify the FAQ, but i will, and hope someone else does as well. If one was to want to take a paladin and take him into the blackguard prestige class....could the alignment change and the outsider contact both be done in the same quest, or would there have to be two seperate quests done in order to accomplish both requirements? You could easily accomplish both in one quest. If a character chose an animal template for Lycanthropy that had wings....would the character gain wings (and equivalent flight speed) when in Hybrid form? Yup..you still keep ur wings. -ToK
Tellish_of_Ket 09-16-05, 04:21 PM	Armor Spikes: You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. I also did verify and found it in the FAQ, but i also need to caution that the FAQ is not an official publication, or is it an errata to any of the CORE books. I also wouldn't mind a supporting opinion from an Elder. I know from being a previous author for Living Greyhawk, that the FAQ was not an official source to quote and we were not bound by any of it's "Opinions". I quoted the PHB and the SRD supports the PHB. I also checked the errata and nothing in it supports the FAQ. -ToK
NiQil 09-16-05, 04:26 PM	I also did verify and found it in the FAQ, but i also need to caution that the FAQ is not an official publication, or is it an errata to any of the CORE books. I also wouldn't mind a supporting opinion from an Elder. I know from being a previous author for Living Greyhawk, that the FAQ was not an official source to quote and we were not bound by any of it's "Opinions". I quoted the PHB and the SRD supports the PHB. I also checked the errata and nothing in it supports the FAQ. -ToK You have to admit, however, that the FAQ, along with the Rules of the Game and other articles, are generally considered to be valid rules clarifications. At least, they have been in the past.
Gonbow 09-16-05, 04:41 PM	I also did verify and found it in the FAQ, but i also need to caution that the FAQ is not an official publication, or is it an errata to any of the CORE books. I also wouldn't mind a supporting opinion from an Elder. I know from being a previous author for Living Greyhawk, that the FAQ was not an official source to quote and we were not bound by any of it's "Opinions". I quoted the PHB and the SRD supports the PHB. I also checked the errata and nothing in it supports the FAQ. -ToK Personally, I hold the FAQ/Skip William's rules knowledge in serious contempt. However, if we do not utilize the answers in the FAQ, or utilize them in a case by case manner, the number of 'house rules' nessecary for CoCo multiply to the Nth power, a situation that would be most unpleasant. For simplicity sake, treating the FAQ as RAW is the best way to go. That's my 2 cents.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-16-05, 05:24 PM	I agree. We should let it ride as FAQ being correct in the rules interpretation even though he's WRONG and a MORON!! -ToK
SauroGrenom 09-16-05, 06:20 PM	Hi All, I hope it isn't annoying to bring this up again, I made a few posts about it yesterday. I'm still trying to get the details clear about attacks from a mount and the person on that mount. I think I understand how the defend trick is triggered, and the effect of that trick. I was looking at the SRD entry for the warhorse and I found this sentence "A light warhorse can fight while carrying a rider, but the rider cannot also attack unless he or she succeeds on a Ride check." I assume this is the DC10 Ride check for "fight with warhorse". OK, That makes it clear to me that the defend trick can trigger and the horse can attack but the rider cannot "attack" in the same round without succeeding on a Ride check. So how about other actions that are similar to an attack, like casting a spell or manifesting a power, or read a scroll, or use a powerstone, or activate a tattoo, or quaffing a potion, or starting a grapple, or tripping an opponent, or disarming an opponent, or sunder, or feint, or use a wand, or you get the picture. It makes sense that if the "attack" option is unavailable, then all the special attacks (trip, sunder, grapple,...) are not available. But what about all the other actions that are not technically an attack but require a simular effort (ie standard actions). Are spells that target others an "attack" for this purpose? This bring up an interesting circumstance, what if Bruce is mounted but has no ranks in Ride and he is attacked by Hagar with a greatsowrd. If Bruc's mount uses its trick "defend" and Bruc fails his Ride check, then he cannot attack. Instead Bruce wants to hit Hagar with his mace for a higher BAB than the horse. Does Bruce have to make a Handle Animal check to prevent the horse from attacking so that he can get his attack without needing a Ride check? It appears that according to the RAW in the "defend" trick that Bruce has no choice in the matter, he simply must make the Ride check or surrender his attack. If spell casters are allowed to cast but all "attacks" are not possable, then it appears to highly favor spellcasters over melee in mounted combat. And I just thought of this, does a spellcaster have to make a concentration check to cast on a horse that is attacking. I would think that it would be a difficult time to maintain your concentration when the horse your on is biting someone and kicking with its hoves in the air. Perhaps a concentration check is needed in addition to a Ride check. SauroGrenom
Tellish_of_Ket 09-16-05, 06:24 PM	Well, u just answered your own question. You can attack with your mount on a DC 10 ride check. So i'm not sure why you say later, that they cannot? A mount that single moves does not require a concentration check. A double move is DC 10+spell level, and running is DC 15+spell level. Casting on a fighting mount is a DC 15+spell level. -ToK
Pittbull 09-16-05, 07:07 PM	When grappling, you can damage your foe with your spikes by making a regular grapple check (opposed by your foe’s check). I understand understand this passage like this. First there is the opposed grapple-check. Then you deal damage with the armor-spikes(+str-mod). Since you can use armor spikes as a light weapon, you can simply use them to attack your foe. You suffer a –4 penalty on your attack roll when attacking with a light weapon in a grapple (see page 156 in the Player’s Handbook), but if your foe is bigger or stronger than you, this might prove a better tactic than trying to deal damage through a grapple check because there is no opposed roll to make—you just have to hit your opponent’s Armor Class. If you use armor-spikes as a light weapon in grapples, you suffer a -4 modifier for the attack (grapple-rules, attacking with a light weapon). I remember we have used armor-spikes this way allready in this way some time ago. But then somebody came up with the idea of additional damage, because of this: Armor Spikes: You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. Now I understand the dilemma. My opinion is, the SRD states it clear: extra damage is never modified with a strength-bonus and armor-spikes suply only additional dices for damage (like sneak-damage or psionic weapon). So there is there is a need of an inital damage, which is here the subdual and the armor-spikes-damage is only added. I believe the FAQ is wrong. But if the FAQ is official, it is an errata and we should use this version.
Cerebus13 09-16-05, 07:32 PM	At this point we have both Tellish of Ket and Pittbull agreeing that we should use the FAQ's interpretation of the rules in this case. Unless Caterane or the other elders have a major objection to this we could probably go with this change to the rules.
xanadu 09-16-05, 07:59 PM	Now I am confused with grappling. I have armor spikes, I can: (1) Opt for a grapple check. If I win, I do unarmed damage + strength for nonlethal + spike damage which is lethal. (2) Opt to attack my opponent with the spikes. If I do so, I get a -4 AC and if I hit, I do spikes + strength for lethal damage. Right?
Cerebus13 09-16-05, 08:02 PM	Now I am confused with grappling. I have armor spikes, I can: (1) Opt for a grapple check. If I win, I do unarmed damage + strength for nonlethal + spike damage which is lethal. (2) Opt to attack my opponent with the spikes. If I do so, I get a -4 AC and if I hit, I do spikes + strength for lethal damage. Right?(1) Nope. You only do Spike damage + Str Bonus, but it is lethal damage as opposed to doing a normal unarmed strike bit of damage. (2) Correct.
Maraxus 09-16-05, 10:29 PM	If a character chose an animal template for Lycanthropy that had wings....would the character gain wings (and equivalent flight speed) when in Hybrid form? Right, I had a similar question in mind, namely limbs: What do I have? The Weresnake would be quite cool (Kobold Weresnake, or Lizardfolk Weresnake is the question) if you had your arms in Hybrit form. And Wereoctopus ... how cool is that? But what does he have? Is this like Doc Oc. in Spiederman: The Hybridform has two arms, two legs and four additional tentakles? And what if the humanoid was a merman? 5 tentacles, 1 fin or does the fin count as two limbs? And what was that with the wings: Do you have them in place of the arms or in addition. Questions over questions... And maybe the anser is quite simple: Everything like the animal form? Could that be? I think that works bad together with the hybrid forms using weapons. ...Hm, no, by the rules, it looks, as if an Wereoctopus-Meerman would have the fin (movement of the humanoid is kept), but no tentacles. Instead the hands get claws. Better say, there are no were-octopusses. ;) But it also means the weresnake has armes in hbrit form. The Constriktor does not have it's constrikt, nor does the Viper has it's poison, however. Okay, looks like I answered my own question. Just say, if I was wrong. :) PS: And I'm not sure about the wings for the hybrit form: Speed Same as the base creature or base animal, depending on which form the lycanthrope is using. Hybrids use the base creature’s speed. However, it sais only speed, not modes of movement in general, so it could have wings, but I don't know a sentence that speaks for that.
King Uther 09-17-05, 12:43 AM	attention: If You Want To Go On Iced's Campaign, Which Directly Ties In With The Ehtc, Then I Will Pay Your Credits!!!! This Is A One-time Opportunity, So Get Your Evil/non-good Characters Applied.
Iced 09-17-05, 03:38 AM	I AM STARTING MY CAMPAIGN A WEEK FROM NEXT PAIRINGS IF EVERYTHING GOES ACCORDING TO PLAN. ALL INTERESTED PARTIES PLEASE CONTACT ME VIA PM. THE CAMPAIGN TITLE IS "MISSIONS ABROAD". ~King Uther attention: If You Want To Go On Iced's Campaign, Which Directly Ties In With The Ehtc, Then I Will Pay Your Credits!!!! This Is A One-time Opportunity, So Get Your Evil/non-good Characters Applied. Missions Abroad (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=447228) EL 3-4 Non-good alignment/ EHTC member. pm me with questions, comments, and/or concerns.
KerlanRayne 09-17-05, 05:58 AM	At this point we have both Tellish of Ket and Pittbull agreeing that we should use the FAQ's interpretation of the rules in this case. Unless Caterane or the other elders have a major objection to this we could probably go with this change to the rules. How about this: Errata Rule: Primary Sources When you find a disagreement between two D&D® rules sources, unless an official errata file says otherwise, the primary source is correct. One example of a primary/secondary source is text taking precedence over a table entry. An individual spell description takes precedence when the short description in the beginning of the spells chapter disagrees. Another example of primary vs. secondary sources involves book and topic precedence. The Player's Handbook, for example, gives all the rules for playing the game, for playing PC races, and for using base class descriptions. If you find something on one of those topics from the DUNGEON MASTER's Guide or the Monster Manual that disagrees with the Player's Handbook, you should assume the Player's Handbook is the primary source. The DUNGEON MASTER's Guide is the primary source for topics such as magic item descriptions, special material construction rules, and so on. The Monster Manual is the primary source for monster descriptions, templates, and supernatural, extraordinary, and spell-like abilities.Obvious contradiction so PHB is the primary source. KerlanRayne
Vathelokai 09-17-05, 06:03 AM	PS: And I'm not sure about the wings for the hybrit form: However, it sais only speed, not modes of movement in general, so it could have wings, but I don't know a sentence that speaks for that. Well, in Lycanthropes it says to compare to polymorph, and polymorph says to compare to alter self. With alter self you get to keep 'gross physical qualities' but not special abilities. So if you have natural flight from wings you keep it, but if you have supernatural flight, I would guess not.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-17-05, 07:38 AM	How about this: Obvious contradiction so PHB is the primary source. KerlanRayne I think everyone in his/her right mind agrees that the FAQ is a VERY OBVIOUS contradiction to the rules and there is NO ERRATA to support the FAQ. Just some looney-tunes author who doesn't even know the rules. No official gaming sponsored by WoTC has ever used the FAQ as law. None. Not Living Greyhawk, not EBBERON, NOTHING!!! This leaves us with two options. In our own COCO FAQ, include a reference to simply counter the specific claim made by the FAQ in the case of armour spikes OR adopt the FAQ wholly and unequivocally as an official clarifications to the rules. My vote would be for option 1, as i'm sure would most other people agree as well. -ToK
TheMagister 09-17-05, 10:53 AM	My vote goes with Tellish. TM
NiQil 09-17-05, 10:55 AM	I think everyone in his/her right mind agrees that the FAQ is a VERY OBVIOUS contradiction to the rules and there is NO ERRATA to support the FAQ. Just some looney-tunes author who doesn't even know the rules. No official gaming sponsored by WoTC has ever used the FAQ as law. None. Not Living Greyhawk, not EBBERON, NOTHING!!! This leaves us with two options. In our own COCO FAQ, include a reference to simply counter the specific claim made by the FAQ in the case of armour spikes OR adopt the FAQ wholly and unequivocally as an official clarifications to the rules. My vote would be for option 1, as i'm sure would most other people agree as well. -ToK The only problem with this, ToK, is that if you do this with armor spikes, then that means the rest of the FAQ is fair game to get tossed out as well. Why should exceptions be made for one rule and not for others that are mentioned in the FAQ? Now, granted....usually there is not this big a disparity between interpretations between sourcebooks and the FAQ. But you get my point. Either toss the FAQ as a whole, or include it as a whole. But it is totally biased to just toss it for some rules and not for others. Up until now, the FAQ has always been used in CoCo (at least as long as I have been here, anyway..which granted is only a few months) as an add-on to errata whenever rules questions have come up. But because it says something that not a lot of people agree with, now suddenly we don't want to listen to it? I'd be willing to bet that if it said that not only do armor spikes work like they always have here, but you also don't take the -4 penalty for using them, that everyone would be jumping on the FAQ as an official source, saying it was correct. Edit: And if we do toss the FAQ as a non-official source, then we also need to toss the Rules of the Game articles...the Tactics and Tips articles....everything that is not a core book or official errata. Again, up until now these have all been accepted rules clarifications. But if one gets tossed, then they all should, since none of them are official.
Vathelokai 09-17-05, 11:03 AM	I think your going a bit over board on this one, Niqil. There is the statement in the FAQ that says that if FAQ contradicts a primary source, ignore the FAQ.
TheMagister 09-17-05, 11:13 AM	I think your going a bit over board on this one, Niqil. There is the statement in the FAQ that says that if FAQ contradicts a primary source, ignore the FAQ. That's really very true. The FAQ is an alternative rules source, not a primary rules source. If the 3.5 PHB errata said something different, then it's RAW. @Niqil I don't think that the relative power of +1d6 in a grapple is the big deal here. If the FAQ got rid of the -4 non-proficiency penalty for using armor spikes in a grapple, I'd like to think that I'd be one of the first ones posting my disagreement. I think the people that are arguing for the unarmed damage + str + 1d6 (extra) lethal damage are only doing so because that's what the PHB *says should happen. The FAQ is just a contradictory rules source. It can be official and still be wrong. That you have to admit. TM
NiQil 09-17-05, 11:15 AM	I think your going a bit over board on this one, Niqil. There is the statement in the FAQ that says that if FAQ contradicts a primary source, ignore the FAQ. There is a statement in the core books that says that the primary source should always be followed in the case of contradictions. And only the core books and errata are official game content...the rest is just interpretation. So again, I ask....how is it fair to ban part of the unofficial game content that we have, up until this point, accepted as official, and not ban all of it? Let me put this in another vein. Suppose that the FAQ gets updated pretty soon and stated that the psionic Energy powers (Missile, Blast, etc) are *supposed to be able to affect equipment just like Gonbow has been using with Tatyana? It would then agree with the RAW, but everyone was pretty much in agreeance that it was way overpowered to let it do that. Since there would be no contradiction between the FAQ and RAW at that point, would we let that stand? I doubt it...we would houserule it away, in direct contradition with the FAQ and the RAW, even though they were in agreeance. So there again, we would be choosing to ban part of the FAQ that we think is wrong. So again....how is it right to ban part of the FAQ and not all of it? If we are going to ban non-official sources, then ban them all. If we are going to use non-official sources as rules clarifications like CoCo has done since I have been here, then accept them whole. None of this "we take what we agree with and don't use what we don't like" stuff. That leaves the taste of munchkin in my mouth, and in my opinion, should be avoided.
SauroGrenom 09-17-05, 11:22 AM	Although I'm a newb here and my opinion probably counts for squat, I agree with NiQil. The FAQ should not be tossed because its interpretation of a particular rule is in contradiction to what has been accepted practice at CoCo. However, I have gone and looked in the SRD and found the following relevant passage: Armor Spikes: You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a –4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) emphasis mine... The use of the word "extra" implies to me that the options described by Xanadu are correct. (1) Opt for a grapple check. If I win, I do unarmed damage + strength for nonlethal + spike damage which is lethal. (2) Opt to attack my opponent with the spikes. If I do so, I get a -4 AC and if I hit, I do spikes + strength for lethal damage. So we clearly have two different sources on the rules (FAQ and SRD), and they are in contradiction. I think it is a resonable thing to say that the FAQ is a valid rules source unless it is in direct contradiction with the fundamental rules in the SRD. We can then rely upon the FAQ in times when the SRD is ambigious, and ignor the FAQ when it clearly contradicts the SRD (this is the only example I know of). To do this is not realy bias in my opinion, but rather establishing a hierarchy of rules sources simular to the quote KerlanRayne showed us from the Official Errata.
King Uther 09-17-05, 11:27 AM	Hmmmm...I wouldn't be arguing that armor spikes aren't powerful. Granted this takes some feats, but you could easily do something similar and less powerful without all the feats. When Virgo was in the EL3 league he 1-hit killed every fight except 1. Grapple Damage with a 22 STR[easily achievable by 5th with a half-Giant]: +1d8[monk Expansioned] +7[STR Expansioned] +1d10+1[+1 Deepcrystal Spikes of wounding Expansioned] +2d6[Deepcrystal] +4d6[Psionic Weapon] +4d6 Dissolving Weapon[could be higher] +4d6[Psionic Fist]* for a net average damage of : 67 at 8th level [More if you focus better] *If you have a Psicrystal with an extra focus
NiQil 09-17-05, 11:33 AM	Although I'm a newb here and my opinion probably counts for squat, I agree with NiQil. The FAQ should not be tossed because its interpretation of a particular rule is in contradiction to what has been accepted practice at CoCo. However, I have gone and looked in the SRD and found the following relevant passage: emphasis mine... The use of the word "extra" implies to me that the options described by Xanadu are correct. So we clearly have two different sources on the rules (FAQ and SRD), and they are in contradiction. I think it is a resonable thing to say that the FAQ is a valid rules source unless it is in direct contradiction with the fundamental rules in the SRD. We can then rely upon the FAQ in times when the SRD is ambigious, and ignor the FAQ when it clearly contradicts the SRD (this is the only example I know of). To do this is not realy bias in my opinion, but rather establishing a hierarchy of rules sources simular to the quote KerlanRayne showed us from the Official Errata. BTW, Armor Spikes are of no use to my Monk Grappler. I think I may have just figured out why the FAQ says what it says. Spiked weapons are light weapons, yes? Unarmed strikes are also light weapons. Per the grapple rules, you cannot attack with both a light weapon and unarmed strikes in the same grapple. Here is the relavent text from grappling: Attack Your Opponent: You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a –4 penalty on such attacks. You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons. Since spikes are light weapons, they cannot be used inconjunction with unarmed damage. This is RAW, not FAQ. The FAQ is now agreeing with RAW.
Vathelokai 09-17-05, 11:36 AM	So the SRD contradicts itself. Hmm. We should send an email to the authorities. :)
NiQil 09-17-05, 11:41 AM	So the SRD contradicts itself. Hmm. We should send an email to the authorities. :) This is also in the PHB, page 156, bottom of the first column, continued to the top of the second column. So now the FAQ is in agreeance with RAW. Armor spikes cannot be used in conjunction with unarmed damage in a grapple, since they are light weapons.
Snommelp 09-17-05, 11:48 AM	But that only takes care of the attack option. There's still the "deal damage to opponent" option to be considered.
TheMagister 09-17-05, 11:52 AM	You're missing the point of the two light weapon thing. When you make a grapple check and are wearing spiked armor, the spikes deal that extra piercing damage in addition to your unarmed strike damage. It's the same as the extra fire damage from a sword with the flaming property. You don't have to make two attacks with the sword to also deal the extra fire damage. Dealing 1d8+str for the longsword and +1d6 fire damage does not require two attacks, or you'd ALWAYS take at least a -4 penalty for attacking with two one-handed weapons at once. The spike damage is extra. Over and above. You don't ALSO have to hit with the spikes. Edit: Yeah, Snommelp. I should clarify that I am referring to the "damage your opponent" option of the grapple. Thanks for reminding me. TM
Vathelokai 09-17-05, 11:53 AM	But that only takes care of the attack option. There's still the "deal damage to opponent" option to be considered. In a grapple you can choose to attack or to deal damage or etc. If you choose to deal damage, then you cannot do the grapple damage. You end up with spikes + str.
NiQil 09-17-05, 11:59 AM	You're missing the point of the two light weapon thing. When you make a grapple check and are wearing spiked armor, the spikes deal that extra piercing damage in addition to your unarmed strike damage. It's the same as the extra fire damage from a sword with the flaming property. You don't have to make two attacks with the sword to also deal the extra fire damage. Dealing 1d8+str for the longsword and +1d6 fire damage does not require two attacks, or you'd ALWAYS take at least a -4 penalty for attacking with two one-handed weapons at once. The spike damage is extra. Over and above. You don't ALSO have to hit with the spikes. TM Actually, you do...and here's why. In the damage your opponent option for grapping, you cannot used anything other than that option to deal damage. You cannot use weapons. Your damage comes from the grapple itself, which is why the damage is equivalent to an unarmed strike, but not an unarmed strike itself. Damage Your Opponent: While grappling, you can deal damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. If you win, you deal nonlethal damage as normal for your unarmed strike (1d3 points for Medium attackers or 1d2 points for Small attackers, plus Strength modifiers). If you want to deal lethal damage, you take a –4 penalty on your grapple check. Exception: Monks deal more damage on an unarmed strike than other characters, and the damage is lethal. However, they can choose to deal their damage as nonlethal damage when grappling without taking the usual –4 penalty for changing lethal damage to nonlethal damage. Under the Attack your opponent option, you can either use an unarmed strike (a light weapon), a natural weapon, or a light weapon (of which spikes are light weapons). You cannot use more than one light weapon in the Attack your opponent option. So, either you use the Damage Your Opponent option and get damage equivalent to an unarmed strike...and nothing from weapons...or you use the Attack Your Opponent option to use a weapon of some kind at a -4 penalty. Unarmed strikes are light weapons, as are spikes. In short, you cannot use armor spikes in the Damage Your Opponent option, and if you use them in the Attack Your Opponent option, you cannot gain damage from any other light weapon (including unarmed strikes). Edit: I think this puts to rest the whole "FAQ is wrong" mess. We have just been doing grapples wrong all this time.
SauroGrenom 09-17-05, 12:30 PM	NiQil, I think you've got it. I was assuming that "damage your opponent" was an attack but it clearly has no attack role (grapple check instead). Also as you said "damage your opponent" causes damage equivalent to an unarmed strike, so it isn't actually an unarmed strike. Since Armor Spikes:deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. Then the bonus damage does not apply to the "damage your opponent" grapple action. This does bring up the interpretation that Armor Spikes add damage to any successful "grapple attack". So if you are grappling and hit with an attack (a d20 role +BAB-4penalty) using unarmed strike, a natural weapon, or a light weapon, then you automaticaly cause extra spikes damage. The potetial for abuse there is huge because a single attack automatically causes damage from two weapons if it hits. You could have some extra damage from things like deep crystal spikes and deep crystal dagger, thus cause bonus damage from both on a successful hit with the dagger.
TheMagister 09-17-05, 12:36 PM	That extra +1d6 has to go somewhere, dude. It's described as "extra" and that means that it's added onto something existing. It just has to go somewhere. TM
Cerebus13 09-17-05, 12:47 PM	"on a successful grapple attack" is poorly worded and could refer to the "Damage Your Opponent" option or the "Attack Your Opponent" option. The rules are confusing and contradictory which is why the FAQ tries to address this. There is no reason for us to argue the semantics here because the RAW don't really make sense here. The best course of action is for the elders or the community at large to vote on how they want to handle Armor Spikes. Either: 1) Treat Armor Spikes as the CoCo has always treated them. This means that the Spikes deal "extra" damage in addition to unarmed strike damage when using the "Damage Your Opponent" option, and that they can be used in the "Attack Your Opponent" option themselves with a -4 penalty. 2) Use the FAQ interpretation. Meaning that Armor Spikes can be used to deal lethal damage using the "Damage Your Opponent" option, but you only include the Armor Spike damage and you strength bonus. Using Spikes to "Attack Your Opponent" would still work in the same way. Pick a interpretation and stick to it, because arguments and discussions are just going to delay this and it is important we get this sorted out before Tuesday because it directly affects a fight from this week. Due to my being involved in the fight I'll abstain from voting because I would have a biased opinion on the matter.
TheMagister 09-17-05, 12:49 PM	I'll wait for elder involvement from this point. I've said what I have to say. TM
TheMagister 09-17-05, 12:56 PM	Edit: double post. TM
xanadu 09-17-05, 01:33 PM	We cannot just throw out FAQs and Rules of the Game. There are invaluable at clarifying some poorly worded sections of the rules and have been consistently been used as a legitmate source. You aren't making an attack with spikes, the damage is extra to what is done on a grapple check. This obviously simulates the fact that receiving a bearhug will hurt more with someone wearing spiked armor than someone who is not. What is so confusing and controversial here? How does this not make sense?
Vathelokai 09-17-05, 01:36 PM	We're all just arguing about sematics. Nothing very contravesial at all. :cool:
Vathelokai 09-17-05, 01:43 PM	So anyway, since this arguement is getting stale... The Arcane Order is looking for a fifth member. If you like to RP on the board and want to be a guinea pig in the new guild experiment, send me a PM. The only qualification to join is the ability to cast 2nd lv arcane spells, since skill re-distribution has been allowed. Change that worthless craft skill into a knowledge; free by joining. Current members of he guild are/will be Auburn (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7209993), Archie Longbow (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7042212), Vandalar the Red (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6452290) and Aranor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7117895)
Cerebus13 09-17-05, 02:41 PM	We cannot just throw out FAQs and Rules of the Game. There are invaluable at clarifying some poorly worded sections of the rules and have been consistently been used as a legitmate source. You aren't making an attack with spikes, the damage is extra to what is done on a grapple check. This obviously simulates the fact that receiving a bearhug will hurt more with someone wearing spiked armor than someone who is not. What is so confusing and controversial here? How does this not make sense?If I could post a Poll thread for people to vote on this I would, but I either cannot or I'm too dumb to figure out how. We need to pick one way or another which is going to be used.
Vathelokai 09-17-05, 02:47 PM	You're not dumb. Polls are disabled for the common folk. *edit* Seriously folks, Tellish and Pitbull (both elders) have come out on the side of the FAQ. You're never going to convince each other, and unless you convince Cat, we're going with the FAQ version of armor spikes. That's the whole point of having elders; now that they've done their job, why are we still squabling?
SauroGrenom 09-17-05, 03:34 PM	How do you caclulate the increased cost for animals? Specifically I'm thinking of buying a riding dog that is trained to hunt, so it could be a low cost way to find invisable opponents. Would it increase the cost further if I want to swap one of the tricks in the hunting group for another, such as fetch for defend? What is the limit on how many purchased allies you can have with you in the Arena?
Vathelokai 09-17-05, 03:56 PM	In the handle animal skill, there are rules for teaching different tricks. The number of tricks an animal can have is based on its int. You don't have to select one of the 'package deals' of tricks. The tricks are free with the creature. I don't know the answers to any of your other questions, though. It might all be in the Rules thread under allies.
TelinArtho 09-17-05, 04:03 PM	Since this issue is directly involved in a fight I have already run, I will take the points made on this and alter it accordingly. However, since I won't likely have the time to edit the fight until Monday - it will allow for the rest of the elders to put their points on this matter. Also, if this is the rule that is going to be used going forward (and I'm stressing this because it was NOT done this way in the past) - someone (ie Cat) should make an appropriate mention in the rules of Gladius. /d
TheMagister 09-17-05, 04:07 PM	Since I'm new to Pitlording, I have a few questions that I want opinions on. I don't really think there are any definite answers. 1) Should a pitlord be each character's best advocate (i.e. making the best objective, un-biased decisions possible) or should he pretend that he's an imbecile following orders, even if they don't make sense? 2) Shouldn't pitlords make the effort to kinda "proof-read as I go" while they are 'lording the matches they take? It seems like there are some 'lords that kinda rush through the matches. More time seems to be spent revising than would actually be spent running it right the first time. 3) Is #2 above just a little presumptuous, and should I be told to shut my pie-hole, or do I actually have a valid concern? TM
TelinArtho 09-17-05, 04:19 PM	1. In general, a pitlord should follow a player's tactics until the point that they break - and then the pitlord should still see if other tactics would be implemented in the player's conditionals (if any). If a player's tactics break - then the pitlord should try to keep the new tactics according to what the player has tried before (so nothing groundbreaking, but not have the player run around like a chicken...). 2. This is going to be a very subjective thing to answer about. I graduated from college with honors in English and French - so I uphold myself to a pretty high standard. However, remember that not everyone here is American/a native English speaker and not everyone here is the same age or brought up with the same education. For instance, while I have graduated from college, my brother-in-law (Dr. Funk) is not yet an adult. 3. Regarding revisions - I think it is best to "keep your pie-hole shut" (tongue in cheek...). Here's why: Not everyone has the same level of understanding of the rules, nor does everyone have the same interpretation of rules. You may see it as a pitlord "rushing through" his fights - I see it as a likely case where the pitlord didn't understand a particular rule or situation (even perhaps a misunderstanding in the tactics).
Usurpator 09-17-05, 04:30 PM	1) Should a pitlord be each character's best advocate (i.e. making the best objective, un-biased decisions possible) or should he pretend that he's an imbecile following orders, even if they don't make sense? If a tactic written for the character doesn't work, I have the character make a DC 10 Wisdom check each round to 'realize' it. Then it takes a DC 10 Intelligence check to come up with a workable alternative (provided by me). 2) Shouldn't pitlords make the effort to kinda "proof-read as I go" while they are 'lording the matches they take? It seems like there are some 'lords that kinda rush through the matches. More time seems to be spent revising than would actually be spent running it right the first time. Sometimes tactics just don't work because one of the parties made assumptions that are just not true. I think the fights are just as much a test of writing tactics as it is a test of character building. If the participants fail to come up with effective tactics they should suffer the consequences for that just as they would be punished by building a poor character. Actually, since copying a character idea from somebody else is much easier than copying a tactic, I would say that writing effective tactics is even more a test of skill than the actual building is. I would certainly not apply the most fiendish tactics I think up myself in a fight I Pitlord unless the tactics called for something like it. The fights are a test of the Pitlord's skill and knowledge of the rules and in interpreting tactics too, and that's what most rewrites are about.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-17-05, 05:05 PM	How do you caclulate the increased cost for animals? Specifically I'm thinking of buying a riding dog that is trained to hunt, so it could be a low cost way to find invisable opponents. Would it increase the cost further if I want to swap one of the tricks in the hunting group for another, such as fetch for defend? What is the limit on how many purchased allies you can have with you in the Arena? FAQ: Allies (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466763) -ToK
TheMagister 09-17-05, 05:38 PM	If a tactic written for the character doesn't work, I have the character make a DC 10 Wisdom check each round to 'realize' it. Then it takes a DC 10 Intelligence check to come up with a workable alternative (provided by me). That's workable. Sometimes tactics just don't work because one of the parties made assumptions that are just not true. I think the fights are just as much a test of writing tactics as it is a test of character building. If the participants fail to come up with effective tactics they should suffer the consequences for that just as they would be punished by building a poor character. I only kind've agree with this. In my first experience with Pitlording, one player read his opponent's incorrect sheet and devised tactics around the error. His tactics ceased being valid after the first turn. Maybe its a case-by-case basis... I would certainly not apply the most fiendish tactics I think up myself in a fight I Pitlord unless the tactics called for something like it. The fights are a test of the Pitlord's skill and knowledge of the rules and in interpreting tactics too, and that's what most rewrites are about. See, this is where I'm just going to have to restrain myself. Some things are just...well...just common fighter/adventurer/magic user strategies in certain situations. Taking a 5' step backwards before you use a ranged weapon/cast a spell is one. Pulling out a polearm when your opponent is trying to continually withdraw out of melee so that you can take an AoO on his second square of movement is another. There are just common Fighter/Wizzy/etc. 101 tactics out there that every adventurer should know (IMHO). It'll be very hard for me to ignore these things that I know and still feel like I gave each gladiator a fair shot. I suppose you're right though, I can't/shouldn't play their characters for them. I'd appreciate more opinions, though. TM
nightbanegod 09-17-05, 06:12 PM	what is the additional gold costs and how do you factor them when you want to buy a custom item out of the black market that has a different type of bonus on an item for example Ring of protection +1 = +1 deflection bonus to AC customized Ring of protection +1 = +1 Morale Bonus to AC its the happy ring of not getting smacked by the pulverizer with super buffs and for some unknown reason unverifiable attack rolls how would you factor the additional costs to make such an item?
nightbanegod 09-17-05, 06:22 PM	So anyway, since this arguement is getting stale... The Arcane Order is looking for a fifth member. If you like to RP on the board and want to be a guinea pig in the new guild experiment, send me a PM. The only qualification to join is the ability to cast 2nd lv arcane spells, since skill re-distribution has been allowed. Change that worthless craft skill into a knowledge; free by joining. Current members of he guild are/will be Auburn (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7209993), Archie Longbow (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7042212), Vandalar the Red (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6452290) and Aranor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7117895) isnt Dalamar an Undercover brutha?
Tellish_of_Ket 09-17-05, 06:31 PM	I'd appreciate more opinions, though. TM I would tend to side with Usurpator's judgements. Just because there are fighter 101 tactics out there, doesn't mean everyone knows them, but at the same time there are some GLARINGLY obvious situations. Such at what TM pointed out, the old 5' step and cast. That should never ever have to be specified by a gladiator in his tactics, but to be honest, it wouldn't hurt either...so if you know to do it, write it down, and don't take any chances. People have been killed by pitlords who've claimed, "We'll, he didn't say to 5' back before casting, so he died." And believe me, it's happened more than once. Being an effective gladiator is also being an effective tactician. Just being able to train (make a good build), doesn't automatically mean you know what to do with it in an arena-like setting (tactically). Arena battles are a combination of both. -ToK
Vathelokai 09-17-05, 07:07 PM	isnt Dalamar an Undercover brutha? Denshi and Dalamar are both on campaigns, thus they do not count. TAO needs 5 active members.
NiQil 09-17-05, 11:26 PM	Is there any restriction on a bard prebuffing with something like Inspire Courage? I know that, logically, no one can sing for over 16 hours, but there is nothing in the RAW that says this that I know of.
TheMagister 09-18-05, 07:27 AM	Hey, I need info. What exac-a-tick-aly does the feat "Psionic Hole" do? What are its prereqs? Oh, and what does the power "synesthete" do? How long does it last @ ML 1? Force Screen, same questions. Defensive Precognition, same questions. What ML is someone who has the Phrenric Template? Does it cost PP to manifest a Psi-like ability? I think that'll get me started nicely. (My work computer's firewall keeps me from referencing the SRD, so this is really my only way to get information on Psi-stuff. If someone could send me the entire SRD by e-mail, I'd be your friend forever. Or at least until tomorrow.) TM
Vathelokai 09-18-05, 07:33 AM	PM me your email. Also, have you checked the other SRD? (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html) It's not a download, and it's easier to use, but don't tell Nightbanegod I was promoting it ;)
TheMagister 09-18-05, 09:17 AM	EDIT: I found it. I feel like a dork, now that I know where it is. Thanks, guys for all the help. Really sorry for making you work when all I had to do was poke around for 15 minutes. Abjectly sorry, TM
TelinArtho 09-18-05, 09:22 AM	Psionic Hole PSIONIC HOLE [GENERAL] You are anathema to psionic creatures and characters. Prerequisite: Con 15. Benefit: When a foe strikes you in melee combat, the foe immediately loses its psionic focus, if any. Also, if you are the target of a power, the manifester of the power must spend an additional number of power points equal to your Wisdom bonus, or the power fails (all the power points spent on the power are still lost). This extra cost does not count toward the maximum power points a manifester can spend on a single power. Special: You cannot take or use this feat if you have the ability to use powers (if you have a power point reserve or psi-like abilities). Synesthete Synesthete Psychometabolism Level: Psion/wilder 1, psychic warrior 1 Display: Material Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 10 min./level (D) Power Points: 1 You receive one kind of sensory input when a different sense is stimulated. In particular, you can either feel light or feel sound. You can shift your stimulated sense between these two options once per round as a swift action. Your senses continue to work normally as well, unless they are impaired for some reason. Your face must be uncovered to use this power, because it is the skin of your face that acts as the sensory receiver. If you are feeling light by absorbing ambient light onto your skin, you have your normal visual abilities (except for darkvision), even if your eyes are closed or you are blinded. If your eyes are working normally, you gain a +4 circumstance bonus on all Spot and Search checks. While feeling light, you are immune to gaze attacks. If you are feeling sound by absorbing sound onto your skin and your ears are working normally, the expanded audio input provides you with a +4 circumstance bonus on Listen checks. Psionic or magical displacement effects, invisibility effects, illusions, and other similar effects confuse your synesthete senses just as they would your normal senses. You can also use this power to see sound if you are deafened, or hear light if you are blinded, thus removing all penalties associated with either condition (though you gain no bonuses for using the power in this way if you are not deafened or blinded). Force Screen Psychokinesis [Force] Level: Psion/wilder 1, psychic warrior 1 Display: Auditory Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 min./level Power Points: 1 You create an invisible mobile disk of force that hovers in front of you. The force screen provides a +4 shield bonus to Armor Class (which applies against incorporeal touch attacks, since the force screen is a force effect). Since it hovers in front of you, the effect has no armor check penalty associated with it. Augment: For every 4 additional power points you spend, the shield bonus to Armor Class improves by 1. Precognition, Defensive Clairsentience Level: Psion/wilder 1, psychic warrior 1 Display: Material and visual Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 min./level (D) Power Points: 1 Your awareness extends a fraction of a second into the future, allowing you to better evade an opponent’s blows. You gain a +1 insight bonus to AC and on all saving throws. If caught in a situation where your Dexterity bonus isn’t applied to your Armor Class, this bonus to AC and saving throws does not apply. Augment: You can augment this power in one or both of the following ways. 1. For every 3 additional power points you spend, the insight bonus gained increases by 1. 2. If you spend 6 additional power points, you can manifest this power as a swift action. PHRENIC CREATURE Seemingly no different from standard examples of their kind, phrenic creatures harbor mental might. Monsters who naturally possess psionic ability are not found as phrenic creatures. Phrenic creatures are freaks among their kind, otherwise normal creatures whose minds are more powerful than those of their fellows. Similarly, creatures who advance by character class are usually not phrenic creatures—they simply take levels in a psionic class to hone their mental powers. CREATING A PHRENIC CREATURE “Phrenic” is an inherited template that can be added to any nonmindless creature that does not already have the psionic subtype (referred to hereafter as the “base creature”). A phrenic creature uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here. Size and Type: The creature’s type does not change, unless it is an animal (in which case it becomes a magical beast [augmented animal]). It gains the psionic subtype. Psi-Like Abilities (Sp): A phrenic creature possesses the psi-like abilities indicated below, depending on its Hit Dice. The abilities are cumulative. Unless otherwise noted, an ability is usable once per day. Manifester level is equal to the creature’s HD. The save DCs for a phrenic creature’s psi-like abilities are Charisma-based. HD Abilities 1–2 3/day—defensive precognition; 1/day—force screen 3–4 3/day—empty mind, mind thrust 5–6 1/day—body adjustment, brain lock 7–8 1/day—aversion, blast 9–10 3/day—intellect fortress; 1/day—psychic crush 11–12 1/day—psionic dominate 13–14 1/day—energy current, tower of iron will 15–16 3/day—psionic teleport 17–18 1/day—fission 19–20 1/day—ultrablast Special Qualities: A phrenic creature has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities. Naturally Psionic: A phrenic creature gains 1 bonus power point. Power Resistance (Ex): A phrenic creature has power resistance equal to its Hit Dice +10. Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Int +2 (if Int is 3 or greater), Wis +2, Cha +4. Feats: A phrenic creature can take psionic feats, if it meets the prerequisites for such feats. Challenge Rating: Up to 5 HD, same as base creature +1; 6–10 HD, same as base creature +2; 11+ HD, same as base creature +3. Level Adjustment: Same as base creature +2.
TheMagister 09-18-05, 09:58 AM	Perusing the Psionic stuff, I have come across a question: What powers (if any) are tattoos limited to? I know about the power level 3 or less restriction. Otherwise, can you have tats that contain ANY psionic power of 3rd level or less? TM
nightbanegod 09-18-05, 11:36 AM	how many spells per day does a 5th level cleric with the madness domain and a wisdom of 21 have? and what would the BASE DC be?
Gonbow 09-18-05, 11:55 AM	Perusing the Psionic stuff, I have come across a question: What powers (if any) are tattoos limited to? I know about the power level 3 or less restriction. Otherwise, can you have tats that contain ANY psionic power of 3rd level or less? TM Sort of. I've asked about alot of 'vague' powers tatoo-wise and never gotten a response. One main limitation: You can create a psionic tattoo of any power of 3rd level or lower that you know and that targets one or more creatures. The second limitation: When you create a psionic tattoo, you make any choices that you would normally make when manifesting the power. When its wearer physically activates the tattoo, the wearer is the target of the power. Thus, you cannot have a tattoo of say, Bolt, because it does not target one or more creatures. And a tattoo of Energy Ray would be pretty painful. (However, see: Crawling Tattoos for Energy Ray)
nightbanegod 09-18-05, 12:00 PM	PM me your email. Also, have you checked the other SRD? (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html) It's not a download, and it's easier to use, but don't tell Nightbanegod I was promoting it ;) HA!! Caught you red handed!! ... lol, really i dont care, im just saying if we could use the other SRD id have some more tricks but its sad its labeled as NON-core *edit* ahh so Dalamar isnt the only imposter YAY!!
Cerebus13 09-18-05, 12:09 PM	For the FAQ interpretation: NiQil Vathelokai Pittbull - Elder Tellish of Ket- Elder Gonbow For the current CoCo interpretation: xanadu TheMagister KerlanRayne For a different set of rules: SauroGrenom Only 2 elders have weighed in an opinion that I can determine at this point, so this matter isn't quite closed yet. Edit: ToK changed his vote so it seems the majority wants to use the rules from the D&D FAQ.
Iced 09-18-05, 12:12 PM	I AM STARTING MY CAMPAIGN A WEEK FROM NEXT PAIRINGS IF EVERYTHING GOES ACCORDING TO PLAN. ALL INTERESTED PARTIES PLEASE CONTACT ME VIA PM. THE CAMPAIGN TITLE IS "MISSIONS ABROAD". ~King Uther says he will pay your credits! Missions Abroad (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=447228) EL 3-4 Non-good alignment/ EHTC member. pm me with questions, comments, and/or concerns.
Gonbow 09-18-05, 12:16 PM	For the FAQ interpretation: NiQil Vathelokai Pittbull - Elder For the current CoCo interpretation: xanadu TheMagister Tellish of Ket- Elder KerlanRayne For a different set of rules: SauroGrenom If I am understanding people's posts correctly the community is currently one vote ahead in using the current CoCo rules set for this question. Only 2 elders have weighed in an opinion that I can determine at this point, so this matter isn't quite closed yet. I think your missing a few people there. Regardless, add my name to the 'FAQ Interpretation' list. Because if we throw out this, then we have to go through the FAQ question by question and see if we agree with their response; The amount of wrangling this would generate no matter HOW it is done is not to my liking.
NiQil 09-18-05, 12:18 PM	For the FAQ interpretation: NiQil Vathelokai Pittbull - Elder For the current CoCo interpretation: xanadu TheMagister Tellish of Ket- Elder KerlanRayne For a different set of rules: SauroGrenom If I am understanding people's posts correctly the community is currently one vote ahead in using the current CoCo rules set for this question. Only 2 elders have weighed in an opinion that I can determine at this point, so this matter isn't quite closed yet. And this may change quite a bit if they read everything that I have posted since these people posted. I would like to think I have shown, by the RAW, that the FAQ is correct. Some (such as TheMagister, for example), don't agree with my interpretation, while others simply disagreed with the FAQ because they thought the FAQ directly conflicted with the PHB before I made my postings indicating that it did not. @ Cat You and the other Elders are probably going to need to weigh in on this one...and it may require an Elder vote. I feel I have proven why, by the RAW, the FAQ is correct...others feel the way it has always been done shouldn't be changed. The PHB contradicts itself, due to the use of the word "extra" in one key area. Take that out, and I feel my argument is even more valid than before. But as it stands, there is no clearcut definement we can point at.
NiQil 09-18-05, 12:20 PM	I AM STARTING MY CAMPAIGN A WEEK FROM NEXT PAIRINGS IF EVERYTHING GOES ACCORDING TO PLAN. ALL INTERESTED PARTIES PLEASE CONTACT ME VIA PM. THE CAMPAIGN TITLE IS "MISSIONS ABROAD". ~King Uther says he will pay your credits! Missions Abroad (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=447228) EL 3-4 Non-good alignment/ EHTC member. pm me with questions, comments, and/or concerns. I think the reason you are having trouble finding people, Iced, is that, last time I checked, the EHTC has not posted its new entry requirements...and with everyone having to reapply to a guild, even if they were in one before, no one knows if the can/will enter the EHTC or not.
nightbanegod 09-18-05, 01:17 PM	I think the reason you are having trouble finding people, Iced, is that, last time I checked, the EHTC has not posted its new entry requirements...and with everyone having to reapply to a guild, even if they were in one before, no one knows if the can/will enter the EHTC or not. theres new entry requirements?
Snommelp 09-18-05, 01:56 PM	Silly question: let's say that two characters played by two different players are on a quest, and the quest is delayed or ended because one of the two players stops posting. What happens? I'm guessing the questlord isn't penalized, but does the other player get back any credits spent?
nightbanegod 09-18-05, 02:17 PM	CROVAX (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7261208&postcount=468)
Mind Rogue 09-18-05, 02:33 PM	The scimitars... "Zz'dtri" ... of course! My only hope! Aren't ... Aren't you ... AAAH! Aren't you a violation of a certain popular fantasy writer's intellectual property? In reference to Crovax the Cursed from MtG. :D
nightbanegod 09-18-05, 02:36 PM	In reference to Crovax the Cursed from MtG. :D LMFAO, i love order of the stick, and how much of a bribe do you want to keep the Men in suites off me and the refference on the DownLow :P
Tellish_of_Ket 09-18-05, 05:10 PM	And this may change quite a bit if they read everything that I have posted since these people posted. I would like to think I have shown, by the RAW, that the FAQ is correct. Some (such as TheMagister, for example), don't agree with my interpretation, while others simply disagreed with the FAQ because they thought the FAQ directly conflicted with the PHB before I made my postings indicating that it did not. @ Cat You and the other Elders are probably going to need to weigh in on this one...and it may require an Elder vote. I feel I have proven why, by the RAW, the FAQ is correct...others feel the way it has always been done shouldn't be changed. The PHB contradicts itself, due to the use of the word "extra" in one key area. Take that out, and I feel my argument is even more valid than before. But as it stands, there is no clearcut definement we can point at. I think you misunderstood what i was saying NiQil. All evidence supports to current CoCo interpretation, but we can't just ignore the FAQ either. As much as we hate it, we do use it often for rules clarification and we can't pick and choose which ones we do and which ones we do not. My vote would be in favour of the FAQ, despite my "personal" opinion. -ToK
Emrys Donovan 09-18-05, 05:47 PM	LMFAO, i love order of the stick, and how much of a bribe do you want to keep the Men in suites off me and the refference on the DownLow :P A credit? :P J/k. I noticed it too, but didn't say anything.
Mind Rogue 09-18-05, 05:53 PM	A credit? :P J/k. I noticed it too, but didn't say anything. You're being nice. I was thinking five.
Aramil Dunskar 09-18-05, 07:18 PM	@Any Questlord or Campaignlord: I'm looking for either a Campaign or Quest for Grakk to get into, the Campaign I don't mind what it is, as long as it doesn't go against his alignment, and for the Quest he's looking to tame his own pegasus for combat. PM me if your available for the quest or you need someone for a campaign. Thanks -Aramil
Caterane 09-18-05, 07:26 PM	The new entry requirements for the EHTC are special: 5 ranks in any two of the following skills: - Appraise - Bluff - Sense motive and non-good alignment Once the first 5 members have joined the EHTC, the requirements will change to 5 ranks in all three mentioned skills. Anyone who wants to join the EHTC can change his skills accordingly after sending a PM to either me or Tellish.
Luni 09-18-05, 09:35 PM	Ariel requests for an evil ECL 4-6 Character to help her build a grand cathredal to evil. :D Well not build by herself, but by finding a nice little work force that needs some encouragment. :schemes: Planning to start on 28th of September. I also need a questlord, but I am more interested in another player to quest with at the moment.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-18-05, 10:13 PM	Ariel requests for an evil ECL 4-6 Character to help her build a grand cathredal to evil. :D Well not build by herself, but by finding a nice little work force that needs some encouragment. :schemes: Planning to start on 28th of September. I also need a questlord, but I am more interested in another player to quest with at the moment. Damn. Too bad Pure Evil is in a campaign, he would have gladly joined ya. -ToK
Luni 09-18-05, 11:03 PM	Damn. Too bad Pure Evil is in a campaign, he would have gladly joined ya. -ToK I gathered that from your first quest. :D
Vathelokai 09-18-05, 11:23 PM	Perusing the Psionic stuff, I have come across a question: What powers (if any) are tattoos limited to? I know about the power level 3 or less restriction. Otherwise, can you have tats that contain ANY psionic power of 3rd level or less? TMPower level 3 or less. Cannot be a compultion effect. Regular tatoos target yourself and crawling tatoos target others. Any power that targets multiple people only targets 1 person in tatoo form. I think that's about it. There's also Gonbows post earlier.
Vathelokai 09-19-05, 12:40 AM	I was reading over the posts in the blackmarket, and saw a lot of 5 credit expeditures for items that exist in the dmg. No body slot switch or anything. Why are the credit's being paid? What am I missing?
Gonbow 09-19-05, 01:29 AM	I was reading over the posts in the blackmarket, and saw a lot of 5 credit expeditures for items that exist in the dmg. No body slot switch or anything. Why are the credit's being paid? What am I missing? The peripats right? Simple: In the DMG they go by 2's. +2, +4, +6; A 'odd' numbered peripat is 'illegal' thusly.
nightbanegod 09-19-05, 01:36 AM	Ariel requests for an evil ECL 4-6 Character to help her build a grand cathredal to evil. :D Well not build by herself, but by finding a nice little work force that needs some encouragment. :schemes: Planning to start on 28th of September. I also need a questlord, but I am more interested in another player to quest with at the moment. check out the horseman (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6910679&postcount=402). he might be up for it if you would like the military aspect of his character, and he would like to cause someone to start a war with someone else. basically fuel conflicts and cause fights and wars. its your call. and he would love an ECL 5-6 quest or some such for exp and gold, plus hes a fairly decent combatant.
nightbanegod 09-19-05, 01:58 AM	The new entry requirements for the EHTC are special: 5 ranks in any two of the following skills: - Appraise - Bluff - Sense motive and non-good alignment Once the first 5 members have joined the EHTC, the requirements will change to 5 ranks in all three mentioned skills. Anyone who wants to join the EHTC can change his skills accordingly after sending a PM to either me or Tellish. what about classes that have those as cross class skills? does it have to be 5 ranks or 5 skill points?
Tellish_of_Ket 09-19-05, 02:03 AM	I gathered that from your first quest. :D Heheh. Hey, as soon as that campaign is complete, you and i are gonna go on a tear like no other. K? Those will be one hell of a set of quests. OOooooo, i can taste the evilness already. -ToK
Vathelokai 09-19-05, 02:06 AM	what about classes that have those as cross class skills? does it have to be 5 ranks or 5 skill points? Right now it's 5 ranks, cc or not. Things are still up in the air now, though.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-19-05, 02:19 AM	what about classes that have those as cross class skills? does it have to be 5 ranks or 5 skill points? It's 5 ranks cross-class or not. ANNOUNCEMENT I guess since other guilds are looking for recruits, i may as well announce that G.S.I.S. will also be recruiting. I know i've had pm's before from interested parties, but that was with the old membership requirements. If those that pm'd before are still interested please re-pm me. Any new interested bodies, please pm as well. As you know all guilds require a minimum of 5 players to be considered active. So don't be shy. Guild Type: Espionage and Counter-Espionage Goal: Gather Intelligence Power Level: Requirements: -5 ranks in Bluff, Gather Information, Knowledge Skill: Local, Profession: Any City Profession -Must Quest or MQ to Join. -Alignment Restrictions: No Chaotic Evil, Lawful Good Remember that even if you don't have the requirements now, you will be able to change around some skills to meet the req's. Also, if you are ECL 4, and a skill is xclass to you, you can quest for membership, which will get you to ECL 5, and thus qualifying yourself for the guild at end of quest. -ToK
Luni 09-19-05, 02:38 AM	Heheh. Hey, as soon as that campaign is complete, you and i are gonna go on a tear like no other. K? Those will be one hell of a set of quests. OOooooo, i can taste the evilness already. -ToK We are going to have a pile of fun.
Usurpator 09-19-05, 02:52 AM	I have to get something off my chest: Last weeks I have seen many creative and great ideas proposed about the guilds. Once the system is fully fleshed out it seems like it going to be a lot of fun! I would love to have one of my characters join a guild but none meet the requirements. Even in the best case scenario, it would take several levels to be able to do so. While I love the idea of guilds I don't like (and frankly don't understand) why the entry requirements are this high. It's like qualifying for a prestige class, but in the case of prestige classes you know it's balanced because of the benefits a prestige class gives you. My points: - Guilds should cater to the characters, not the other way around. - You should not have to build a character specifically to be able to join a guild. There is no intention of creating a dichotomy between arena-built characters and guild-built characters, or is there? - Why class guilds? Why couldn't a Sorcerer be interested in Gladius security (G.S.I.S.) or a Barbarian interested in nature (Living Tree)? - What are all those entry requirements supposed to balance? Why are they this stringent? - It unfairly punishes hybrid (multi-class) characters by requiring a strong focus in one (class-related) area. - It unfairly punishes low-int builds because most requirements are skill ranks. Or is the intention of guilds to be another form of prestige classes?
Vathelokai 09-19-05, 03:00 AM	We are going to have a pile of fun. Well...if you think corpses are fun, then sure you'll have a pile :D
Vathelokai 09-19-05, 03:08 AM	While I love the idea of guilds I don't like (and frankly don't understand) why the entry requirements are this high. It's like qualifying for a prestige class, but in the case of prestige classes you know it's balanced because of the benefits a prestige class gives you. My points: - Guilds should cater to the characters, not the other way around. - You should not have to build a character specifically to be able to join a guild. There is no intention of creating a dichotomy between arena-built characters and guild-built characters, or is there? - Why class guilds? Why couldn't a Sorcerer be interested in Gladius security (G.S.I.S.) or a Barbarian interested in nature (Living Tree)? - What are all those entry requirements supposed to balance? Why are they this stringent? - It unfairly punishes hybrid (multi-class) characters by requiring a strong focus in one (class-related) area. - It unfairly punishes low-int builds because most requirements are skill ranks. Or is the intention of guilds to be another form of prestige classes? When origionally pushed by Uther, ToK and me, the guilds had a very loose focus. There was a 50/50 shot that any character could qualify for any guild. Cat was very against this idea. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but the general thrust of his arguement was that the guilds should be for very specific types of characters so there could be many guilds with many, specific focuses. In the case of the guilds he argued that a rules frame should come before a RP justification. Thus the class guilds.
Usurpator 09-19-05, 03:35 AM	In the case of the guilds he argued that a rules frame should come before a RP justification. Thus the class guilds. Thank you for the explanation. I agree with Cat that a rules frame should come first. But there are infinite of these frames available, and now a Prestige-class like frame has been chosen, with the consequences I have given above. Say, there are about 100 active characters in CoCo. Say that 50% of them would be interested in joining a guild. If a 100% are able to join a guild we would have 5 guilds with 10 active members each, which sounds okay, right? But if only 25% are able to join a guild, we would barely have two guilds. I have a crusading-type of Paladin/Sorcerer. Should I scour the character lists, looking to see if there are at least 5 paladin/sorcerers out there, hope they want to actively participate in a guild, and then set up the Templars Guild which takes Divine Grace and able to cast arcane spells spontaneously as requirements? And then have a guild full of carbon-copy characters? Guilds are RP entities, not rules entities, but if you have to put a rule frame around it, choose things that people are able to meet automatically but still divides the applicants, thereby ensuring not everyone is going to join the same guild such as: alignment or race. In any case, I think the restrictions need to be relaxed. I would love to join a campaign at some date, but if many are Guild-based (like Iced's is now) I just cannot partcipate.
Vathelokai 09-19-05, 03:37 AM	Guilds are RP entities, not rules entities, but if you have to put a rule frame around it, choose things that people are able to meet automatically but still divides the applicants, thereby ensuring not everyone is going to join the same guild such as: alignment or race. In any case, I think the restrictions need to be relaxed. I agree with your sentiment.
Usurpator 09-19-05, 04:25 AM	Since Cat specifically asked for constructive criticism, here's some ideas for new (relaxed) requirements: EHTC To join: - Must have either Bluff or Sense Motive as class skill or at least 3 ranks in Appraise - Any non-good alignment - Quest or Miniquest to join To be a Guildmaster: - As old EHTC requirements GSIS Guildmembers - Must have Gather Information, Hide or Spot as a class skill or at least 3 ranks in any City Profession. - Must Quest or MQ to Join. - No Chaotic Evil or Lawful Good To be a Guildmaster: - As old requirements TNT Guildmembers - Must have Survival as a class skill or at least 1 rank in Knowledge(Nature) - Must Quest or MQ to Join. - Only Lawful Neutral, Neutral Good, True Neutral or Chaotic Neutral alignment - No outsiders or half-races To be a Guildmaster: - As old requirements TAO Guildmembers - Able to cast any arcane spell - Only non-chaotic alignment - Must be male (just an idea as possible rule requirement) To be a Guildmaster: - As old requirements
Vathelokai 09-19-05, 04:37 AM	Actually, that's part of the reason I removed "Brotherhood of" from the title :D As for guildmasters, there aren't really any requirements. The guildmaster isn't a 'character' per say, though some guildmasters have characters in their guilds (Virgo, Auburn) and they can create NPC's to act as mouthpieces for the guildmaster. As for the ideas themselves, I like them, though they need tweaking. Perhaps we could wait for more people to log on and get Cat's opinion, and the general sentiment of the players. If there are lots people who agree with you then Cat might be swayed. As it stands, it looks like guilds are not filling up very fast. I'm guessing some of it is not wanting to be a guinea pig in the test run, but more then you have said that the prereqs. are keeping them out.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-19-05, 04:38 AM	When origionally pushed by Uther, ToK and me, the guilds had a very loose focus. There was a 50/50 shot that any character could qualify for any guild. Cat was very against this idea. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but the general thrust of his arguement was that the guilds should be for very specific types of characters so there could be many guilds with many, specific focuses. In the case of the guilds he argued that a rules frame should come before a RP justification. Thus the class guilds. Exactly. This is what we all found. Initially, GSIS could include almost ANY character type. I was very loathe to let go of my "broad range" of abilities and requirements and eventually got talked out of it for the sake of uniformity and to have guilds class-based. I liked the old GSIS better, but as long as we are all on the same page, i don't mind it as it is now. But i did get some pm's from just what Usurpator was talking about. Some spellcasters, built around the requirements for my old guild, and managed to balance it all, and had the rp'ability to function in a security measure for GSIS. But now, it's a pipe dream. That/those character(s) would need to be around 8th level to join now. I'm not saying i don't like it now, but i know it was easier before, and RP was the biggest motivator to join. I'd have to do some more thinking for now. One thing i do no for sure, is that guilds should definately be RP-based instead of class based. But that's just my opinion. -ToK
Vathelokai 09-19-05, 05:01 AM	I'm playing devil's advocate here, since I'm OK with the current setup, so noone get upset. It occurs to me that Uther, ToK, and Vath all liked the RP over rules approach. I'd bet money that Luni is of similar mindset. I'm loath to petition for change at this point, because there have been many delays and I want to get the guilds rolling, but it might be a good idea in the long run to lower the intro reqs. If we use the setup Usurpator suggested, then it still keeps things class based (mostly) but makes for more characters able to enter. I agree, ToK, thinking on it would be the best approach.
Cerebus13 09-19-05, 08:40 AM	Just quick reminder to check my tally sheet for the Armor Spikes vote here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7283289&postcount=3121). Currently 2 elders have said to go with the D&D FAQ on this, so unless a sweeping majority of the rest of them vote against it I think this issue is almost closed. Depressing really because my grappler, Guts, is just not going to work out the way I wanted anymore so I may simply retire him :weep:.
Sindorin 09-19-05, 09:49 AM	Just quick reminder to check my tally sheet for the Armor Spikes vote here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7283289&postcount=3121). Currently 2 elders have said to go with the D&D FAQ on this, so unless a sweeping majority of the rest of them vote against it I think this issue is almost closed. Depressing really because my grappler, Guts, is just not going to work out the way I wanted anymore so I may simply retire him :weep:. I would like to weigh in in favor of the D&D FAQ... however jumbled and unclear we find it at times, it is our guide.
Altaris13 09-19-05, 12:13 PM	My posting will be erratic over the next day or two. Soon to be Hurricane Rita is bearing down on my home according to the news. I will try to post my fight this evening, providing I have an internet connection still. Unfortunately, my area floods pretty bad and my cable goes on the fritz every time it rains like this.
NiQil 09-19-05, 12:15 PM	My posting will be erratic over the next day or two. Soon to be Hurricane Rita is bearing down on my home according to the news. I will try to post my fight this evening, providing I have an internet connection still. Unfortunately, my area floods pretty bad and my cable goes on the fritz every time it rains like this. Do what ya gotta do....I might recommend making yourself an inactive pitlord this week and setting your fighters inactive just in case. If your situation changes before Wednesday, you can always change them as long as it's before the deadline.
TelinArtho 09-19-05, 12:24 PM	@Altaris - if you think you won't be able to post the fight - feel free to send me the tactics of the characters and I'll finish it for you - no need to even search for someone - just send them. And good luck with the storm.
NiQil 09-19-05, 01:55 PM	Exactly. This is what we all found. Initially, GSIS could include almost ANY character type. I was very loathe to let go of my "broad range" of abilities and requirements and eventually got talked out of it for the sake of uniformity and to have guilds class-based. I liked the old GSIS better, but as long as we are all on the same page, i don't mind it as it is now. But i did get some pm's from just what Usurpator was talking about. Some spellcasters, built around the requirements for my old guild, and managed to balance it all, and had the rp'ability to function in a security measure for GSIS. But now, it's a pipe dream. That/those character(s) would need to be around 8th level to join now. I'm not saying i don't like it now, but i know it was easier before, and RP was the biggest motivator to join. I'd have to do some more thinking for now. One thing i do no for sure, is that guilds should definately be RP-based instead of class based. But that's just my opinion. -ToK I had a thought along these same lines. The initial idea behind the old guilds seemed to be simply as a place for everyone to be able to roleplay their characters...and do so in an environment that they would normally be in (evil characters in an evil guild....arcanists in an arcane order..monks together with other monks, etc). Occasionally challenges rolled out of this roleplaying, along with ideas for quests, miniquests and campaigns. No one really seemed to have a problem with this. It was fun. Now the guilds are evolving into something far different. They are much stricter, and much more complicated. Only time will tell if they are as fun (not saying they won't be...just that we won't know until they get off the ground). It seems that there are several of us, myself included, who are just looking for a way to roleplay our characters to some degree without having all of the extra complications. My thought, based on this supposition, was to let the guilds stand as they are being build, but along with that, create an IC only thread where *anyone can go to roleplay their character. Want to talk smack to another character? This would be the place. Want to simply swap stories of past battles. Same difference. Want to build a backstory for a pending quest or campaign? Roleplay it out in here with the various characters. This is just something I came up with while reading the recent guild posts here....I would love to here others' thoughts on this idea.
Caterane 09-19-05, 02:09 PM	The main purpose of Guilds will be in-character RP! We are just building a cool frame around it. If you just want to roleplay your PC in a guild, then do so and ignore all that other stuff. You'll pay some fees, you'll get some benefits, and that's it. I still miss the big participation in the project, btw. I use all my free time for the guilds; that's why the roster isn't updated.
Gonbow 09-19-05, 02:09 PM	Exactly. This is what we all found. Initially, GSIS could include almost ANY character type. I was very loathe to let go of my "broad range" of abilities and requirements and eventually got talked out of it for the sake of uniformity and to have guilds class-based. I liked the old GSIS better, but as long as we are all on the same page, i don't mind it as it is now. But i did get some pm's from just what Usurpator was talking about. Some spellcasters, built around the requirements for my old guild, and managed to balance it all, and had the rp'ability to function in a security measure for GSIS. But now, it's a pipe dream. That/those character(s) would need to be around 8th level to join now. I'm not saying i don't like it now, but i know it was easier before, and RP was the biggest motivator to join. I'd have to do some more thinking for now. One thing i do no for sure, is that guilds should definately be RP-based instead of class based. But that's just my opinion. -ToK Quite. I built Tatyana to be part of GSIS; a mentalist spy. There is simply no way for me to join GSIS until level 8 now (5 levels away), and more-over, she cannot enter ANY of the guilds before level 8 without multiclassing. While I had planned for most of my characters to enter guilds, the hit and miss coverage of classes is seriously cramping my ability to do so, with only one character having a class with skills appropriate to a guild; And it's one I'm not even interested in! (Yasha could join the Nature guild. Yah, RIGHT. She'd be much more interested in GSIS or EHTC; Which is why she joined Iced' campaign. At least I'll have several levels to get the requirements before returning to the arena.) I'm still considering wether or not to change Tatyana's stats and just wait a few months to join, or to leave her as she is and forget joing a guild at all =/
NiQil 09-19-05, 02:18 PM	The main purpose of Guilds will be in-character RP! We are just building a cool frame around it. If you just want to roleplay your PC in a guild, then do so and ignore all that other stuff. You'll pay some fees, you'll get some benefits, and that's it. I still miss the big participation in the project, btw. I use all my free time for the guilds; that's why the roster isn't updated. Ummm....Cat....no offence here....but you are missing the point. There are several that have already expressed that they would love to roleplay their characters, but have no desire to do so in the new guild system for various reasons ranging from the requirements to get in being to strict to it being too complicated to just plain not wanting to join a guild. What is so bad about letting people roleplay their characters without having all of the strings attached to it that the guilds will have? Many want to roleplay....not as many want to redo characters to join guilds or want to even worry about the guilds at all. They just want to roleplay. That's it. No bells, no whistles, no strings....just roleplay. Edit: And don't take this expression the wrong way. I think what the guilds are doing will ultimately prove to be a very valuable addition to CoCo. I have reservations about certain aspects that are being implemented, but overall I think they will be a good addition. But I don't see how having an IC thread for those that just want to roleplay with no strings attached would be a problem. Maybe I'm just blind (ok, well actually I am...legally anyway....but that's beside the point LOL).
Altaris13 09-19-05, 02:52 PM	@Altaris - if you think you won't be able to post the fight - feel free to send me the tactics of the characters and I'll finish it for you - no need to even search for someone - just send them. And good luck with the storm. You know, that would probably be best. I'm going to have to stop for a couple of last minute supplies, and that will be... unpleasant. :( Thanks for volunteering mate.
Altaris13 09-19-05, 02:57 PM	I know I've been a bit of a 'nay-sayer' when it comes to the current structure of Guilds. But I wanted to add something: I like the ideas that Cat is coming up with. Now that I understand what the intention is with LivingGuilds, I think it things will come along very well and for the betterment of LivingGladius in general. I have no issues with the Guilds being class based. After all, any prestige class or "special organization" is going to have mechanical requirements. The mechanic-driven requirements show hard representation of a PC's dedication to the concept & goals of that organization. After all, no truly organized, formalized & structured organization is going to take "just anyone."
Usurpator 09-19-05, 03:17 PM	After all, no truly organized, formalized & structured organization is going to take "just anyone." Actually, its the reverse. Since the characters will form the guilds, not the other way around, the guilds will conform to what the characters want them to be. And since the current requirements don't reflect the majority of characters, the guild shouldn't never come into being like this. It's not like the EHTC is kicking out members because they want to raise their standards, its because the city council passing laws that make it impossible for certain characters to be guildmembers anymore. Generally, I like a lot of the ideas I have seen, but I have not participated much largely because I'm not too keen in putting a lot of energy into something my characters won't be able to enter naturally.
Caterane 09-19-05, 03:21 PM	The EHTC and GSIS requirements can be eased up a bit now that we don't have those powerful tokens anymore (they've been replaced by in-guild benefits). The TAO and TLT have very easy requirements for their classes so the other two guilds should have the same. They were just higher because of their good token. It's too early to talk about requirements though. We have to finish the rules first. The more you help me, the sooner we can start.
NiQil 09-19-05, 03:27 PM	The EHTC and GSIS requirements can be eased up a bit now that we don't have those powerful tokens anymore (they've been replaced by in-guild benefits). The TAO and TLT have very easy requirements for their classes so the other two guilds should have the same. They were just higher because of their good token. It's too early to talk about requirements though. We have to finish the rules first. The more you help me, the sooner we can start. The TLT has one requirement that I personally think should be done away with....and that is the requirement to have the Wild Empathy class feature. By having that there, it requires you to either be a ranger or druid, or to multiclass into one of those. Those two classes are not the only classes that can be nature-centric (barbarian and bard immediately come to mind as two others). Requiring multi-classing to get into a guild because you have a cleric of Obad-Hai just seems a little harsh to me.
Usurpator 09-19-05, 03:34 PM	It's too early to talk about requirements though. We have to finish the rules first. The more you help me, the sooner we can start. I agree that it is now best to finish the rules first, since the point about the requirements has been made. After finishing the rules we can have an open 'write in' for each guild. See who's interested in joining each guild purely based on RP aspects. Then we can see if we can fiddle with the entry requirements so that a suitable proportion of the interested parties can join with a minimum amount of skill adjustments or similar changes. It also mimics the way guilds are set up in an RP way: the entry requirements are determined by their founders. Internally they decide on their own rules, but externally they have to obey the laws set by the government.
Caterane 09-19-05, 03:59 PM	I thought about the amount and range of Guilds, and came to the conclusion that there will always be only a handful of guilds because we a) don't have that many PCs on the roster to support more than 8, and there are not enough themes without repeating itself. So here's my list of guilds that we will probably have in the end: - GSI Services (Stealth): Rogues, Bards - Arcane Order (Arcane): Wizards, Sorcerers - The Living Tree (Nature): Rangers, Druids - EHT Company (????): ??? - Celestial Forces (Good): Paladins, good clerics - Warriors Guild (Combat): Fighters, Barbarians, Monks - Psionics Guild (Psionics): Wilders, Psions, Psychic Warriors I had some problems getting the EHTC anywhere in there. Even the theme is not clear but "Evil" is still missing, or a real underground organization that is opposed to the GSIS. Perhaps Uther can tell us which builds should go into the EHTC. Perhaps there can be an 8th guild later.
NiQil 09-19-05, 04:05 PM	I thought about the amount and range of Guilds, and came to the conclusion that there will always be only a handful of guilds because we a) don't have that many PCs on the roster to support more than 8, and there are not enough themes without repeating itself. So here's my list of guilds that we will probably have in the end: - GSI Services (Stealth): Rogues, Bards - Arcane Order (Arcane): Wizards, Sorcerers - The Living Tree (Nature): Rangers, Druids - EHT Company (????): ??? - Celestial Forces (Good): Paladins, good clerics - Warriors Guild (Combat): Fighters, Barbarians, Monks - Psionics Guild (Psionics): Wilders, Psions, Psychic Warriors I had some problems getting the EHTC anywhere in there. Even the theme is not clear but "Evil" is still missing, or a real underground organization that is opposed to the GSIS. Perhaps Uther can tell us which builds should go into the EHTC. Perhaps there can be an 8th guild later. What about a guild to support prestige classes? Since they each have their own requirements, it wouldn't really need to have any requirements other than must have a prestige class. Also....you might have better luck if you list these guilds by theme only, rather than by classes, since the theme of the guild is much more important than the class of its members. For instance, it would be just as natural to have evil rogues and bards in the EHTC as it would be to have good ones in the GSIS....and just as natural to have rangers in the GSIS as in TLT.
Snommelp 09-19-05, 04:12 PM	Has anyone heard from Ellorion? He's supposed to be questing with me, but he's been absent from the boards for four days now.
Caterane 09-19-05, 04:14 PM	I just want to make sure most concepts are covered with those 7 guilds, and keep an 8th one reserved for later if there's a hole somewhere. About the requirements again: Without any strict requirements, anyone could join any guild. The example requirements from Usurpator - like 1 rank in Knowledge nature to join the TLT - are a farce, not a requirement. If we do it that way, we can just aswell forget about requirements altogether. Look, if you - the real world you - go to Microsoft with your 1 rank in knowledge mousepad, they won't even open the door. Guilds must have requirements and everyone who fulfill those requirements is automatically a character related to that theme and can rightfully join. We will ease up the requirements, overhaul them a bit, but don't expect your venerable Str 6 wizard to be able to join the Warriors guild. EDIT: Oh and VERY important! I've said it before and will do so again: EVERYONE CAN POST IN ANY GUILD THREAD, MEMBER OR NOT! So much for the in-character roleplaying 'problem'.
TelinArtho 09-19-05, 04:28 PM	If a character is sitting out because he/she is crafting an item of a value greater than 1000gp, can that character still make use of free activities (training or professions, etc)? I'm assuming not - but I wanted to make sure.
Caterane 09-19-05, 04:34 PM	If a character is sitting out because he/she is crafting an item of a value greater than 1000gp, can that character still make use of free activities (training or professions, etc)? I'm assuming not - but I wanted to make sure. No.
Usurpator 09-19-05, 04:37 PM	About the requirements again: Without any strict requirements, anyone could join any guild. The example requirements from Usurpator - like 1 rank in Knowledge nature to join the TLT - are a farce, not a requirement. If we do it that way, we can just aswell forget about requirements altogether. Cat, I don't like the way you ridicule my proposal, I think its uncalled for. You said you appreciated constructive ideas, and I made a sincere attempt to do so, but from your reaction it seems you only appreciate ideas that fit into your conception of what the guilds should be. Please listen to the ideas offered without a priori hanging on to your own conception of how it should be, however well thought out your own conception might be. As I said before, I thought the point about the entry requirement was made, and I was ready to let it rest until the other rules are completed. The way you now respond to my proposal heavily discourages me of contributing any more ideas to the Living Guilds. I can understand you feel a little frustrated when you put so much energy into something and you feel it is met with resistance at every turn. I think you only have our best interests in mind, but the way you go about it doesn't sit well with me. Please let it rest as well and think about it while you work on the practical rules.
Caterane 09-19-05, 04:45 PM	Ok, sorry about that. I never meant to make your idea sound ridiculous. And it's not the many ideas, but that I am under the impression that I have to do much of it alone that frustrates me a bit. :( Every brainstorming in the Council would help.
TelinArtho 09-19-05, 04:59 PM	BEWARE Any and all who might want to use me as a Questlord. I am now running my 2nd quest. In the first (just to recap), I critted once with a glaive to knock a melee build from full hp to -4 (luckily he wasn't alone so he got healed). I also threatened criticals 3 other times in that quest. In my 2nd quest, in the first round, an orc has critted the hero and knocked him down by 20hp damage to 1hp. Good luck Zamier! Ode to a Pearl (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=502157)
Luni 09-19-05, 05:06 PM	BEWARE Any and all who might want to use me as a Questlord. I am now running my 2nd quest. In the first (just to recap), I critted once with a glaive to knock a melee build from full hp to -4 (luckily he wasn't alone so he got healed). I also threatened criticals 3 other times in that quest. In my 2nd quest, in the first round, an orc has critted the hero and knocked him down by 20hp damage to 1hp. Good luck Zamier! Ode to a Pearl (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=502157) Hey, I didn't think Vakkor would survive some of his fights either.
Mind Rogue 09-19-05, 05:08 PM	Look, if you - the real world you - go to Microsoft with your 1 rank in knowledge mousepad, they won't even open the door. Guilds must have requirements and everyone who fulfill those requirements is automatically a character related to that theme and can rightfully join. No, they'd throw him out because he was overqualified. :D Actually, there you are using an example of a well established guild that has the option of being picky about whom it allows. Right now, all of our guilds have zilch members, or low enough that they still have to do recruiting. A better example might be if some of my friends and I decided to start our own little theatre troupe. Even if some of us only have 1 rank in Perform(act) we'll still accept them into the troupe because we need them to fill in the other rolls. We also need people with other skills to run things like set building (if we use them) lighting, sound effects, directing, and so on. Once we get bigger, we can have people focus in on some of these niches. At this point, not everyone will be an actor. We'll need people who are only stage hands to move the set on and off and someone to do the sound and light boards, someone else to usher, and so on. Taking this back into the game, the EHTC might need some people to acquire the goods, someone else to transport them, then a third person to fence them again after smuggling them (or whatever the EHTC does with them). For some items, sleight of hand will help with transport because it allows the member to conceal it on their body, while the person in charge of fencing will need ranks in Gather Information and Knowledge (local). Somewhere along the line, someone has to figure out how much the stuff they are getting is worth, so somebody has to have appraise. However, for the guild to work properly, in no way does everyone have to have all four of these skills.
Usurpator 09-19-05, 05:08 PM	Has anyone heard from Ellorion? He's supposed to be questing with me, but he's been absent from the boards for four days now. Ellorion is supposed to Pitlord the victory of Solon (Usurpator) over Elliak the Eminent (Xanadu), but I haven't heard anything myself. It's getting close to the deadline and I am still waiting for three of my character's fights... :(
TelinArtho 09-19-05, 05:10 PM	I know! I didn't prepare Vakkor very well for his quest - but I'm happy that he did make it through in the end. Certainly, things would've been much different if he hadn't been able to disarm his foe... Zamier does have plenty of options, but I don't know what he'll be able to do to avoid 3 attacks next round.
TelinArtho 09-19-05, 05:12 PM	If there are any fights that have not been run by tomorrow - I'm generally around to take care of them - so if the fights haven't been posted by then (and Ellorion hasn't been by to give you an update), I'll take them then. /d
Luni 09-19-05, 05:13 PM	Ellorion is supposed to Pitlord the victory of Solon (Usurpator) over Elliak the Eminent (Xanadu), but I haven't heard anything myself. It's getting close to the deadline and I am still waiting for three of my character's fights... :( I have Nexa's fight, but I don't have the time to run it until late tonight or tomorrow morning. It will be up tomorrow morning!
Vathelokai 09-19-05, 05:14 PM	@MindRogue: To use your mediphore, the NPC hirelings will be the stagehands and merchants. It's a case of wealthy actors getting together to form a guild. Don't think I'm challenging your arguement. I agree, have the whole time, that putting the rules explaination before the RP expl. is a bit wonky.
NiQil 09-19-05, 05:21 PM	@MindRogue: To use your mediphore, the NPC hirelings will be the stagehands and merchants. It's a case of wealthy actors getting together to form a guild. Don't think I'm challenging your arguement. I agree, have the whole time, that putting the rules explaination before the RP expl. is a bit wonky. Agreed as well. Maybe this is the reason for the lack of responses in the Council thread for the building of the guild. Without a concrete idea of how we want these guilds to function, I'm personally having a hard time wrapping my mind around putting rules to the whole idea of building on rooms and upgrades and whatnot. Maybe we are trying to do too much all at once. <shrug> Not a shot at anyone, because I know this is all a lot of hard work...but it seems kinda bass ackwards to me. It would seem easier to me to get the entry requirements hashed out and let the guilds get up and running as just a RP thing so that members can start being collected, and then hash out things from there. Start with the basics, such as the power ranking system and things like that, and then work out what, to me, seems to be the smaller things such as the size of the rooms needed and guild income and things of that nature. Of course, that's just my opinion...I could be wrong.
Caterane 09-19-05, 05:46 PM	1) First of all, we need to invent rooms of which the guild is made. I've already given some very concrete examples, like Living Quarters housing 5 low PCs. However, there's a list of rooms that still need a purpose. 2) These rooms must be advancable. So a Basic Living Quarter could be upgraded to a Fancy Living Quarter (for 2 mid PCs). I am currently looking for ideas for advanced rooms. 3) In some rooms, you can buy upgrades. These upgrades affect the whole guild and are a one-time cost. You could for example buy the "Longsword Upgrade" in the Basic Smithy to give from now on all soldiers longswords instead of the default shortsword. I am looking for ideas of upgrades and the room in which it can be bought. I'd be happy to solve this first and every bit of participation helps. I hope my explanation encourages that. If you have questions about that I would be glad to explain more. Here's a look into the future. The next steps after developing the Base of Operation rules are: - Districts of Gladius: We make a list of district traits, like "Faith" or "Crime" or "Economy" and assign a numerical value to every trait in every district. These District Traits have effects on facilities. Guilds will modify District traits by their prescence. - Facilities: Buildings that Guilds can buy in Gladius and that generate additional income. The efficiency depends on the district and Guild prescence in that district. What kind of facilities are there and what do they do? Inter-Guild Wars: Struggles between guilds either with NPC soldiers, or with characters. You can try to conquer a district, destroy a facility, or even assault the base and steal some gold from the treasure. The options can be endless. Also, how do defensive buildings affect that battle? Guild Specials: The individual traits of Guilds for Districts, their special rooms, and what rooms they cannot use. Once these issues have been solved, the Guild System is ready.
Altaris13 09-19-05, 06:15 PM	I know! I didn't prepare Vakkor very well for his quest - but I'm happy that he did make it through in the end. Certainly, things would've been much different if he hadn't been able to disarm his foe... Zamier does have plenty of options, but I don't know what he'll be able to do to avoid 3 attacks next round. Bah! 3 attacks me foot! All Will Fear Zamier! :D (By the way, he ran away!) :P
NiQil 09-19-05, 06:18 PM	Bah! 3 attacks me foot! All Will Fear Zamier! :D (By the way, he ran away!) :P Your foot took three attacks? :D
Altaris13 09-19-05, 06:24 PM	Your foot took three attacks? :D :heehee
nightbanegod 09-19-05, 07:56 PM	hear hear ... pun-pun the ultimate KOBOLD shall destroy gladius in one fell swoop
TheMagister 09-19-05, 08:26 PM	I'll be unable to Pitlord the next two weeks (Sept. 21st and Sept. 28th). I won't have enough computer access to run fights. Thanks! TM
Snommelp 09-19-05, 08:39 PM	Whoa! What happened to the boards? They look... I was going to say professional, but that's not right... expensive! That's the word I want! I must bring back a juvenile nature... :P :P
Huan 09-19-05, 08:46 PM	Hmm.... the new forum ambiance ... looking good....
xanadu 09-19-05, 09:07 PM	Computerknowledgable folks, The way wizards has their web pages formated is they require me to scroll left to right to see the entire page. This new funky format made the problem unbearably worse. What settings must I adjust so the page fits on one screen?
NiQil 09-19-05, 09:14 PM	Computerknowledgable folks, The way wizards has their web pages formated is they require me to scroll left to right to see the entire page. This new funky format made the problem unbearably worse. What settings must I adjust so the page fits on one screen? I am having the same problem. It appears with this new format that the boards are now formatted to fit a 1024x768 monitor resolution. I use 800x600. I PM'd a WizO to see if they could tell me if there was a way to fix it. If so, I'll post it here. Edit: I don't know if this will help anyone else, but I did some tinkering with settings and I managed to get the boards set back to the way they were before the change. To do what I did, go to Quick Links and then Edit Options. When your Options screen comes up, scroll all the way down to the bottom....you are looking for a pull down menu that is labeled something like "Select Forum Skin" or something to that effect. Most of us are probably using the one that says "Use Forum Default". If you change to the one just below it in the pull down menu that says "Default Style", it gave me the old boards back.
nightbanegod 09-19-05, 10:06 PM	-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- what happens when a person moves through a square on horseback where an invisible person is standing? how do i handle that?
Tellish_of_Ket 09-19-05, 10:18 PM	what happens when a person moves through a square on horseback where an invisible person is standing? how do i handle that? Same way as any other similar situation. The invisible person has the option of letting them pass unhindered. But don't forget the horses scent ability. Being right next to it, will allow the mount to pin-point the invisible foe with a move action. -ToK
Sindorin 09-19-05, 10:21 PM	Everything is all shiny...
SauroGrenom 09-19-05, 11:42 PM	-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- what happens when a person moves through a square on horseback where an invisible person is standing? how do i handle that? How does a player write a tactic for a highly improbable possibility like this? :eek:
nightbanegod 09-19-05, 11:56 PM	i got another odd question now... if a caster is readying to target someone who is invisible for when they become visible. does the invisible person become visible while attempting to grapple soon enough for the caster to cast a readied spell on them? or does the casters readied action not go off since he becomes grappled before the grappler becomes visible?
Iced 09-19-05, 11:58 PM	Missions Abroad starts the 21st! They need a cleric/ divine spellcaster with healing ability. Yout credits are being paid for by king uther! Apply your divine spellcaster now while there is yet time! If there's not a divine spellcaster entered by sept. 21 the campaign may have to be delayed.
TheMagister 09-20-05, 03:37 AM	...check my two characters: Sdentch (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6966406&postcount=417) and Torgirr (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6959095&postcount=415) I just bought and sold a bunch of stuff and I wanna make sure it's all legal. Thanks! TM
Vathelokai 09-20-05, 07:00 AM	@Usupator: Loving the Arena Weekly. Thought you should be warned that the links don't work on this weeks issue.
Usurpator 09-20-05, 07:21 AM	@Usupator: Loving the Arena Weekly. Thought you should be warned that the links don't work on this weeks issue. Thanks! :D Links fixed. Typed it locally and put in links before using the board editor. Apparently it put a space after the url= part, mucking up the links.
Emrys Donovan 09-20-05, 07:37 AM	Whoa! :eek: We got a new look! Its weird...or maybe its just me.
Caterane 09-20-05, 09:33 AM	Ok, from what I read, many of you are not happy with the strict requirements and the tax. Here's my compromise: we easen up the requirements to join (well, not down to one rank, right Usurpator ) and we will drop the tax from a real tax to an 'imaginary' one. That means, a Guild still earns 10% of a PCs income a week but that isn't deducted from the PCs income. In return, I want your participation, and a bit more enthusiasm about LivingGuilds. Deal? @Guildmasters: You can begin to note down some applicants in your guild but no one joins yet. Once we start, you pick 5 low PCs. Also, you should have at least 15 posts reserved. You will need that space; one for each district.
NiQil 09-20-05, 10:28 AM	Grapple Checks: Repeatedly in a grapple, you need to make opposed grapple checks against an opponent. A grapple check is like a melee attack roll. Your attack bonus on a grapple check is: Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifier WEAPON FINESSE [GENERAL] Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1. Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls. Special: A fighter may select Weapon Finesse as one of his fighter bonus feats. Natural weapons are always considered light weapons. Based on the above passages, is someone with weapon finesse able to use ther Dex modifier in place of the Strength modifier on grapple checks? It seems to me that you can, but I want to be sure. And no, I am not talking about the initial touch attack to start a grapple, but rather the opposed checks while in a grapple.
Snommelp 09-20-05, 11:12 AM	Wow, Grik's been newsworthy two weeks in a row... who would've thought a simple orc barbarian would be so popular? NiQil: I would vote "no," since it's an opposed roll, but if someone with authority contradicts me, I'll probably defer to his judgement.
NiQil 09-20-05, 11:37 AM	The Permanency spell and Incarnate power can make certain spells permanent on you. You have to pay for both the permanency/incarnate spellcasting service (10x5xCL +5 gp per XP), plus the spell you want to render permanent (10x5xCL) including any material component and xp cost, if any. The minimum caster level requirement must be met and the maximum caster level is 20. A spell made permanent can be dispelled either by dispelling the Permanency Spell itself, or the companion spell (for that reason it is important that you note down the Caster level of the spell, or of both spells if the CL isn't the same). You can only make those spells permanent that are listed in the spell/power description. Permanent symbol spells that are discharged reactivate after 10 minutes. Example: A permanent CL 10 Enlarge Person costs 3600 gp (10x5x10 +2500, plus 10x1x10), whereas a CL 11 Greater Magic Fang costs 8380 gp (10x5x11 +7500, plus 10x3x11). A permanent CL 15 Symbol of Death costs 26950 gp (10x5x15 +20000 [XP] +5000 [material component], plus 10x8x15). You may not buy a permanent See Invisibility (Target: personal) unless you can cast it yourself but in this case the See invisibility spell has your caster level, the permanency spell, however, the caster level of the NPC Spellcaster. You may not make Magic Vestment permanent because it is not in the list. I have a question about this. When it says that the minimum caster level must be met, is this referring to the cost you must pay, or the level your character must be? For instance, using the Greater Magic Fang example listed above....would this mean I would need to be at least 9th level to have this done, or is the minimum caster level referring strictly to the cost that must be paid? Basically, in the above example, I am trying to determine if I would have to be Level 9 to have it done, or just be able to afford to pay for it at the CL 11 that is required for Greater Magic Fang to be permanent.
TelinArtho 09-20-05, 11:43 AM	Here Lies Zamier Gladiator who had his tools stolen. He did fight with foes aplenty But in the end, his life was broken
NiQil 09-20-05, 11:46 AM	Here Lies Zamier Gladiator who had his tools stolen. He did fight with foes aplenty But in the end, his life was broken Ouch....is this the first player to die in a quest? Certainly the first one since I have been here.... Kinda sucks too...no one to resurrect him so the character is done in all of Gladius.
Altaris13 09-20-05, 11:47 AM	Dang falchions. :D Dang orcs. :D Could only hit me with a crit, and did so twice. :weep: But hey, the Celestial Forces (and their dark, secret counterpart) will come and resurrect me! So n'yeh! :P But that's OK. I've decided to retire Aeryn and Zamier. I see where I could improve on Zamier. Cool concept, but I messed it up.
NiQil 09-20-05, 11:52 AM	Dang falchions. :D Dang orcs. :D Could only hit me with a crit, and did so twice. :weep: But hey, the Celestial Forces (and their dark, secret counterpart) will come and resurrect me! So n'yeh! :P I'm not sure if the can....if memory serves (and I could be wrong...I haven't looked), if a character dies outside of Gladius (outside of the Nimbus) and there is no one to bring you in for ressurrection, the character is dead. Since the Celestial Forces don't exist yet, I think Zamier is done in Gladius. Might want clarification on that one. Edit: Glad I checked....I was way off. Here's what happens: What happens if my character dies on a Quest? What about my allies? Quests and Campaigns that take place in the non-protected city districts aswell as all adventures beyond the city walls are much more dangerous. If you die outside the Nimbus, you will lose all XP but no more than is required to stay at the current level, as well as wealth according to what you have earned during your current level. As a guideline, we will use the table on p.51 in the DMG: "Treasure values per encounter" to see how much a character loses. Example: Taryn Thunderstorm (Level 7) has fought 3 times since he leveled up to his current level: He won twice in the arena, and lost once. He earned (let's say) 4500 XP from these fights which brings him to 25.500 XP. He also earned ~6000 gp [2600*2 (the wins; DMG p51) +2600/3 (the loss)] since he has leveled to ECL 7. Sadly, the noble paladin dies on one of his holy quests outside Gladius while fighting a blackguard who has taken some Gladiosian prisoners. Taryn loses 4500 XP which brings him to 21000 - the minimum amount required to be level 7 (so no level loss), and the Blackguard loots 6000 gp worth in gp and items before he is being chased off by Celestial Forces reinforcements who came to aid Taryn. Taryn has to regain his XP and gold from the beginning of Level 7 but he will have no disadvantages other than having lost the work of 3 weeks, nor will he have to do the frustrating work of un-leveling his character. A new level will be like a home plate: once attained, you cannot lose it anymore though you can fall back within the level. So going on a Quest is still risky but it won't be as frustrating while still being very close to the Core Rules that are used in a RL campaign.
TelinArtho 09-20-05, 12:45 PM	Another summoner of Denth has arrived: Delaria (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7301351)
SauroGrenom 09-20-05, 12:50 PM	Based on the above passages, is someone with weapon finesse able to use ther Dex modifier in place of the Strength modifier on grapple checks? It seems to me that you can, but I want to be sure. And no, I am not talking about the initial touch attack to start a grapple, but rather the opposed checks while in a grapple. NiQil, Sorry, but I dissagree. A grapple check is like an attack roll, but not the same thing, simular to a trip attempt. An attack roll is not interchangale with a grapple check. Grapple checks have size modifiers that are different from size modifiers on Attack rolls. Grapple checks have feats that modify them that do not cross over into regular attacks, and this separation goes both ways.
Altaris13 09-20-05, 02:49 PM	Hey, does anyone know what the generic weapon is for a Nuetral cleric of War with no Patrol Deity?
NiQil 09-20-05, 02:52 PM	Hey, does anyone know what the generic weapon is for a Nuetral cleric of War with no Patrol Deity? Patrol Deity? LMAO On topic...when there is no patron deity, a cleric picks two domains. I have never seen any RAW that says a cleric gets x weapon when they have no deity....and the way it has always been played here is that you just pick a weapon and get the war domain's benefits on that weapon (hence the reason dwarven clerics are popular....waraxe, anyone?).
TelinArtho 09-20-05, 02:52 PM	I don't think they have it listed anywhere (I checked Spiritual weapon for example), but for the purposes of Gladius, you can choose any simple or martial weapon - with bludgeons being the most common examples (heavy mace of course is probably the most common of the common). /d
Emrys Donovan 09-20-05, 02:57 PM	My new Kineticist, Ezra (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7302348&postcount=471).
TelinArtho 09-20-05, 03:13 PM	...check my two characters: Sdentch (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6966406&postcount=417) and Torgirr (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6959095&postcount=415) I just bought and sold a bunch of stuff and I wanna make sure it's all legal. Thanks! TM For Sdentch - you have a longspear listed in your equipment and in your past expendibles as a sold item. Did you actually have 2? Assuming you did not buy 2 and then sell one, you have spent 5752gp, 5sp of the 5775gp that you have earned. This means you have 22gp, 5sp left. Other than that - she looks legal. Looking at Torgirr now...
TelinArtho 09-20-05, 03:17 PM	Torgirr is in violation. He has purchased individual magical arrows - which require credits (check the blackmarket for how many). I will wait to balance his checkbook until the violation is fixed. (If you prefer, I'll post this to the prison).
Luni 09-20-05, 03:28 PM	Another summoner of Denth has arrived: Delaria (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7301351) I'm going to go make the Denth Slayer now.
TelinArtho 09-20-05, 03:33 PM	I'm going to go make the Denth Slayer now. I'm just working around the same class for a little while seeing just how versatile it can be. So far, the clerics have not had a wonderful record: Kraegin (2 wins, 4 losses, survived quest) Tlanth (2 losses) Vakkor (barely survived quest) Delaria (who knows...) And it isn't that difficult to give me a significantly difficult time (prot. from alignment generally makes it difficult...).
NiQil 09-20-05, 03:34 PM	I'm going to go make the Denth Slayer now. First the Balbanes/Harvester thing....now someone is going to make a Denth Slayer? LOL glad none of my characters reach that kind of status....then again I don't keep any of them around that long...hopefully until now anyway.
NiQil 09-20-05, 03:35 PM	I'm just working around the same class for a little while seeing just how versatile it can be. So far, the clerics have not had a wonderful record: Kraegin (2 wins, 4 losses, survived quest) Tlanth (2 losses) Vakkor (barely survived quest) Delaria (who knows...) And it isn't that difficult to give me a significantly difficult time (prot. from alignment generally makes it difficult...). Two words for you....True Neutral. None of those spells work against it.
TelinArtho 09-20-05, 03:39 PM	Actually, with summons, true neutral is the worst you can have. You see protection from evil (as an example) protects you from all non-good summons. (in other words only if you are the opposite do you get to hit them...). This is why any protection spell is effective against a druid (summon nature's ally - most summons are true neutral and have no SR to break through) but may not be all that effective against a cleric (where almost all summons aren't true neutral AND most have SR).
NiQil 09-20-05, 03:39 PM	Alright...can someone take a look at the two new characters in my sig? One is a remake of a character I currently have (realized I screwed up the build slightly so am starting him over) and the other is brand new. And a cookie for anyone that can guess the progression I have planned for Keltsat LOL.
NiQil 09-20-05, 03:46 PM	Actually, with summons, true neutral is the worst you can have. You see protection from evil (as an example) protects you from all non-good summons. (in other words only if you are the opposite do you get to hit them...). This is why any protection spell is effective against a druid (summon nature's ally - most summons are true neutral and have no SR to break through) but may not be all that effective against a cleric (where almost all summons aren't true neutral AND most have SR). I think you have the spell effects slightly wrong. Protection from Evil does not protect against everything not good....just evil. Protection from Good is just that....protection from any aspect of good. Has no effect on Neutrality. Pro Chaos has no effect on neutrality...just chaos aspects, etc. Take a look. Protection from Chaos Abjuration [Lawful] Level: Clr 1, Law 1, Pal 1, Sor/Wiz 1 This spell functions like protection from evil, except that the deflection and resistance bonuses apply to attacks from chaotic creatures, and chaotic summoned creatures cannot touch the subject. Protection from Evil Abjuration [Good] Level: Clr 1, Good 1, Pal 1, Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Creature touched Duration: 1 min./level (D) Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: No; see text This spell wards a creature from attacks by evil creatures, from mental control, and from summoned creatures. It creates a magical barrier around the subject at a distance of 1 foot. The barrier moves with the subject and has three major effects. First, the subject gains a +2 deflection bonus to AC and a +2 resistance bonus on saves. Both these bonuses apply against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures. Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person). The protection does not prevent such effects from targeting the protected creature, but it suppresses the effect for the duration of the protection from evil effect. If the protection from evil effect ends before the effect granting mental control does, the would-be controller would then be able to mentally command the controlled creature. Likewise, the barrier keeps out a possessing life force but does not expel one if it is in place before the spell is cast. This second effect works regardless of alignment. Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Good summoned creatures are immune to this effect. The protection against contact by summoned creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. Spell resistance can allow a creature to overcome this protection and touch the warded creature. Arcane Material Component: A little powdered silver with which you trace a 3-foot -diameter circle on the floor (or ground) around the creature to be warded. Protection from Good Abjuration [Evil] Level: Clr 1, Evil 1, Sor/Wiz 1 This spell functions like protection from evil, except that the deflection and resistance bonuses apply to attacks from good creatures, and good summoned creatures cannot touch the subject. Protection from Law Abjuration [Chaotic] Level: Chaos 1, Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 1 This spell functions like protection from evil, except that the deflection and resistance bonuses apply to attacks from lawful creatures, and lawful summoned creatures cannot touch the subject. If a druid is summoning true neutral animals....the pro spells don't touch them at all, because they don't meet the alignments of any of the pro spells. Again.....they only protect from what they say they protect from.....not from everything except for the opposite of what they say. Pro Good is not going to touch evil and won't touch neutrality, unless it has an aspect of good in it.
Mind Rogue 09-20-05, 03:47 PM	Hey, does anyone know what the generic weapon is for a Nuetral cleric of War with no Patrol Deity? Just make a shimmering duplicate of the guy's own weapon or make something up. Ultimately, it doesn't matter much. I also think that anyone who uses Spiritual Weapon should be required to say what kind of weapon they summon or else it doesn't work, or at least they get a club or something pitiful like that.
NiQil 09-20-05, 03:51 PM	Just make a shimmering duplicate of the guy's own weapon or make something up. Ultimately, it doesn't matter much. I also think that anyone who uses Spiritual Weapon should be required to say what kind of weapon they summon or else it doesn't work, or at least they get a club or something pitiful like that. He wasn't asking about Spiritual weapon....that was just one place Telin looked. He was asking about the War Domain extra bonus of getting the Martial weapon proficiency and weapon focus for the weapon your deity prefers. With no deity, you get to pick the weapon those bonus applies to.
TelinArtho 09-20-05, 03:53 PM	NiQil - the things you are highlighting I have brought up before. Here's the relevant text from Protection from Evil: Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Good summoned creatures are immune to this effect. The protection against contact by summoned creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. Spell resistance can allow a creature to overcome this protection and touch the warded creature. I know that the other protection from alignment spells are worded in a different way - and that is why I questioned this a few weeks ago. However, for the purposes of warding creatures, it is the opposing alignment that gets through - not all alignments except the alignment warded. Therefore - prot. from good - all non-evil summoned creatures are warded. Prot. from law - all non-chaotic summoned creatures are warded, etc.
Mind Rogue 09-20-05, 03:57 PM	I think you have the spell effects slightly wrong. Protection from Evil does not protect against everything not good....just evil. Protection from Good is just that....protection from any aspect of good. Has no effect on Neutrality. Pro Chaos has no effect on neutrality...just chaos aspects, etc. Take a look. If a druid is summoning true neutral animals....the pro spells don't touch them at all, because they don't meet the alignments of any of the pro spells. Again.....they only protect from what they say they protect from.....not from everything except for the opposite of what they say. Pro Good is not going to touch evil and won't touch neutrality, unless it has an aspect of good in it. You're highlighting the wrong part of Protection from Evil. Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Good summoned creatures are immune to this effect. The protection against contact by summoned creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. Spell resistance can allow a creature to overcome this protection and touch the warded creature. This says that it wards against all non-good summoned creatures. The other spells are supposed to work the same way.
NiQil 09-20-05, 03:57 PM	NiQil - the things you are highlighting I have brought up before. Here's the relevant text from Protection from Evil: I know that the other protection from alignment spells are worded in a different way - and that is why I questioned this a few weeks ago. However, for the purposes of warding creatures, it is the opposing alignment that gets through - not all alignments except the alignment warded. Therefore - prot. from good - all non-evil summoned creatures are warded. Prot. from law - all non-chaotic summoned creatures are warded, etc. Hmm....odd.....but I see where you are coming from.
Altaris13 09-20-05, 04:09 PM	Actually, Mind Rogue was answering part of my question. :D Thanks to all three of you for the help.
Caterane 09-20-05, 04:24 PM	@ALL: The Building List is almost complete, and that within 1 day! Still, there are some empty spots that need to be filled. Please check this <post> and brainstorm some buildings, or improve existing ones. Every bit helps! Can you please post here any fights that have been reassigned? I've used up all my free time this week for the guilds therefore no time for the roster update.
TelinArtho 09-20-05, 04:30 PM	Wlandra (Delusional Illusion) vs Ariator Windhaven (Dr. Funk): Altaris13 TelinArtho Yasha Tankou (Gonbow) vs Nexa (Usurpator): michael_noah Luni Shan (Shaken, not Stunned) vs Alexi Wood (Mind Rogue): Aramil Dunskar TelinArtho (pending tactics for Shan)
Altaris13 09-20-05, 04:55 PM	Hey Cat, please make me inactive as a Pitlord. Rules questions: is info located on the DnD WotC website considered eligible for use here? It is generally considered to be Core information, especially on the CO board.
NiQil 09-20-05, 05:16 PM	Hey Cat, please make me inactive as a Pitlord. Rules questions: is info located on the DnD WotC website considered eligible for use here? It is generally considered to be Core information, especially on the CO board. I am guessing the answer to this is going to be if it is not in one of the three core books, the XPH or the Deities & Demigods book (which make up the SRD), then probably not. Depends on what you are asking about, I guess.
Luni 09-20-05, 06:23 PM	Is it a bit much to assume that a werewolf can wear a Belt of Giant Strength, boots of Springing and Striding when he uses his Alternate Form? The SRD says that a Werewolf Lord in Dire Wolf form keeps the gauntlets of Ogre Power, but loses a Cloak of Resistance.
NiQil 09-20-05, 06:40 PM	Along the same vein....would a half-dragon with wings need to have special armor made to be able to wear it with the wings? If so, what would be the cost and/or craft DC?
Mind Rogue 09-20-05, 06:45 PM	Twice as much and the same DC. Essentially it is barding or armor made for a non-humanoid.
NiQil 09-20-05, 06:51 PM	Twice as much and the same DC. Essentially it is barding or armor made for a non-humanoid. I was afraid that would be the case....stupid wings. Oh well....I guess they'll prove useful when the time comes.
TelinArtho 09-20-05, 07:11 PM	If a creature's touch deals damage (for instance, a fire elemental burns anything that touches it), can you deliver a friendly touch spell to a willing elemental safely? For instance I want to cast Bull's Strength on my pet Fire Elemental. Can it choose not to burn me? /d
Luni 09-20-05, 07:15 PM	If a creature's touch deals damage (for instance, a fire elemental burns anything that touches it), can you deliver a friendly touch spell to a willing elemental safely? For instance I want to cast Bull's Strength on my pet Fire Elemental. Can it choose not to burn me? /d I'd say only if it suppress the ability. Which of course a fire elemental can't do. Note: I can't find any rules though.
NiQil 09-20-05, 07:16 PM	If a creature's touch deals damage (for instance, a fire elemental burns anything that touches it), can you deliver a friendly touch spell to a willing elemental safely? For instance I want to cast Bull's Strength on my pet Fire Elemental. Can it choose not to burn me? /d Sounds like you'd be better off with a potion LOL. Or get yourself some Resist Energy first.
TheMagister 09-20-05, 07:55 PM	Torgirr is in violation. He has purchased individual magical arrows - which require credits (check the blackmarket for how many). I will wait to balance his checkbook until the violation is fixed. (If you prefer, I'll post this to the prison). Rats. I thought that buying the individual arrows was sneaky, but couldn't find where it wasn't specifically prohibited without black market connections. I'll edit them out, no need to book me. Thanks, Telin. Edit: All done with both edits. In Sdentch's case, the longspear she had, she kept. That means that I just needed to deduct 2.5gp from her current stash of cash (the sale never happened). Thanks again. TM
NiQil 09-20-05, 08:02 PM	I have a question related to one I asked earlier. I am wondering if it is considered here that if some rule did not change from 3.0 to 3.5, and is not talked about in the 3.5 FAQ, that it's entry into the 3.0 FAQ would still be valid? I want to refrain from giving more details until this question is answered so that the subject I am going to ask about next does not bias the response. (And no, this is not going to break anything....just a clarification I have asked for before and gotten mixed answers on).
Luni 09-20-05, 08:55 PM	I have a question related to one I asked earlier. I am wondering if it is considered here that if some rule did not change from 3.0 to 3.5, and is not talked about in the 3.5 FAQ, that it's entry into the 3.0 FAQ would still be valid? I want to refrain from giving more details until this question is answered so that the subject I am going to ask about next does not bias the response. (And no, this is not going to break anything....just a clarification I have asked for before and gotten mixed answers on). My understanding is, that the 3.0 FAQ is valid, as long as the stuff in question wasn't updated [changed] from 3.0 to 3.5
nightbanegod 09-20-05, 08:58 PM	Come one come all. please review my newest creation and offer your opinions. he will be questing to find this great city of gladius from lands unknown and attempting to scare, poison, curse, kill, animate, anyone that crosses his path on this lovely journey!!! So, without further adew, i present, the new and improved CROVAX!!! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7261208&postcount=468)
NiQil 09-20-05, 09:20 PM	While rolling opposed attack rolls (such as in a grapple or in a disarm attempt), does a natural 1 mean automatic failure as it does for a normal attac roll? For the attacker (that is, the character trying to disarm a foe or accomplish something with a grapple check) a natural 1 fails and a natural 20 succeeds, no matter what the defender rolls. Although the defender's roll is called an "opposed attack roll," the defender is really just setting the DC for the attacker: 1s and 20s aren't special for the defender. Just apply the defender's modifiers to set the DC for the attacker. If both the attacker and the defender roll a 1, the attacker fails. If both the attacker and the defender roll a 20, the attacker succeeds. Note that you cannot get a hold on a foe two or more sizes larger than you (see page 137 in the Player's Handbook). All of the foregoing assumes that you are indeed making an opposed attack roll, which is subject to automatic success or failure. Checks are not subject to automatic success or failure. For example, if you are making an opposed check (as you would when making a Hide check opposed by a foe's Spot check), a roll of 1 or 20 has no special significance. Alright...according to this, grapple checks are opposed attack rolls. If this is held true (i.e., the definition was not changed in 3.5, which as far as I know it was not), then Weapon Finesse *can allow Dexterity to be applied to an opposed grapple check in place of Strength, since Weapon Finesse applies to all attack rolls. Can I please get a ruling on this? This could mean a big difference for some characters (yes, mine is one of them LOL)
Emrys Donovan 09-20-05, 10:59 PM	My new Kineticist, Ezra (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7302348&postcount=471).Would someone look her up and down (figuratively, of course :D ) and post their findings?
Gonbow 09-20-05, 11:03 PM	Would someone look her up and down (figuratively, of course :D ) and post their findings? Sure. Off-hand, why does your powerstone of Energy Missile say +1d6 on it? It deals 3d6, which is the base as it's ML = Minimum ML for an Energy Missile. Also, you DO know that CoCo nerfed Energy Missile to 'unattended' only, right?
TheMagister 09-20-05, 11:23 PM	Hey, can someone give me a reason why I couldn't do this with Sdentch: Wield a [Ma] Spiked Heavy Steel Shield in my primary hand and a light weapon in my off-hand. This would theoretically satisfy the TWF requirements for a one-handed weapon in your primary and a light weapon in your off-hand. My related question is this: when Sdentch shield-bashes with the shield, would she get her full strength bonus to AC, or would the shield's "you can bash with an opponent with a heavy shield, using it as an off-hand weapon. Used this way, a heavy shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purposes of attack rolls, treat a heavy shield as a one-handed weapon." language limit Sdentch to always treating the shield as an off-hand weapon even if she wields it in her primary hand? Thanks for any input, TM
NiQil 09-20-05, 11:42 PM	Hey, can someone give me a reason why I couldn't do this with Sdentch: Wield a [Ma] Spiked Heavy Steel Shield in my primary hand and a light weapon in my off-hand. This would theoretically satisfy the TWF requirements for a one-handed weapon in your primary and a light weapon in your off-hand. My related question is this: when Sdentch shield-bashes with the shield, would she get her full strength bonus to AC, or would the shield's "you can bash with an opponent with a heavy shield, using it as an off-hand weapon. Used this way, a heavy shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purposes of attack rolls, treat a heavy shield as a one-handed weapon." language limit Sdentch to always treating the shield as an off-hand weapon even if she wields it in her primary hand? Thanks for any input, TM Technically, no it wouldn't, since this entry... Shield, Heavy, Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A heavy shield is so heavy that you can’t use your shield hand for anything else. Wooden or Steel: Wooden and steel shields offer the same basic protection, though they respond differently to special attacks. Shield Bash Attacks: You can bash an opponent with a heavy shield, using it as an off-hand weapon. See Table: Weapons for the damage dealt by a shield bash. Used this way, a heavy shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a heavy shield as a one-handed weapon. If you use your shield as a weapon, you lose its AC bonus until your next action (usually until the next round). An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right. ...clearly states that it would be an off-hand weapon only.
Emrys Donovan 09-21-05, 12:11 AM	Sure. Off-hand, why does your powerstone of Energy Missile say +1d6 on it? It deals 3d6, which is the base as it's ML = Minimum ML for an Energy Missile. Also, you DO know that CoCo nerfed Energy Missile to 'unattended' only, right? I meant to put ML4 so it would deal +1d6 damage. So I can't use it to damage my opponent? If this is so, can you link me the posts that show how this came to be?
TheMagister 09-21-05, 12:17 AM	So it's the only weapon in the game that is always considered an off-hand weapon, even if wielded in your primary hand? That seems illogical (from a common-sense perspective, not necessarily a game perspective). There's also this entry from the SRD, Combat I (Basics), under Damage: Off-Hand Weapon: When you deal damage with a weapon in your off hand, you add only 1/2 your Strength bonus. This denotes that a weapon is only on off-hand weapon if it is wielded in your off hand. It seems like I could change the category of a weapon from "off-hand weapon" to just a normal weapon simply by switching it to my primary hand. What do you think of that? TM
NiQil 09-21-05, 12:19 AM	I meant to put ML4 so it would deal +1d6 damage. So I can't use it to damage my opponent? If this is so, can you link me the posts that show how this came to be? What he meant was that you can use it to damage your opponent and damage unattended equipment, but you can no longer use it to damage equipment that is attended (such as equipment a person is holding or wearing)
TheMagister 09-21-05, 12:21 AM	Also, from the PHB, pg 113, under One-Handed: A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary or the off-hand. Since a heavy shield used to bash is "treated as a one-handed weapon", this applies, too! Another instance in my favor! TM
TheMagister 09-21-05, 12:24 AM	Basically, I'm putting forth that the language in the description of a Heavy shield that refers to it as an "off-hand weapon" is not totally definative, but only refers to how most characters would use a shield. There are no other weapons out there that are always classified only as off-hand weapons. The only thing that makes a weapon an off-hand weapon is its presence in a character's off-hand. TM
NiQil 09-21-05, 12:25 AM	So it's the only weapon in the game that is always considered an off-hand weapon, even if wielded in your primary hand? That seems illogical (from a common-sense perspective, not necessarily a game perspective). There's also this entry from the SRD, Combat I (Basics), under Damage: Off-Hand Weapon: When you deal damage with a weapon in your off hand, you add only 1/2 your Strength bonus. This denotes that a weapon is only on off-hand weapon if it is wielded in your off hand. It seems like I could change the category of a weapon from "off-hand weapon" to just a normal weapon simply by switching it to my primary hand. What do you think of that? TM Logically, you are correct. I don't dispute that. But the problem is that since the shield entry specifically states it can only be used in the off-hand, you can never use it in your primary hand. Which makes sense from a logical standpoint....have you ever seen a fighter that used a shield as their primary weapon and some other weapon (like a shortsword or handaxe or something) in their secondary hand? Shields aren't normally weapons, they can just be modified to act like weapons with the addition of spikes. It's the spikes themselves that are the weapons, not the shields. Hence, shields do not fall under simple, martial or exotic weapon proficiencies....the spikes do. That is what I believe is behind them being designated as always being an off-hand weapon. But regardless of why they did it....it still specifically states that shields can be used to bash only as an off-hand weapon. Not really any way around that, mechanically, as far as I can see. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
NiQil 09-21-05, 12:27 AM	Basically, I'm putting forth that the language in the description of a Heavy shield that refers to it as an "off-hand weapon" is not totally definative, but only refers to how most characters would use a shield. There are no other weapons out there that are always classified only as off-hand weapons. The only thing that makes a weapon an off-hand weapon is its presence in a character's off-hand. TM Again...logcially you are correct. Mechanically, you still have to get around that line that says it is used as an off-hand weapon. If it was intended to be either the primary or off hand, then they would have written that it can be used as a one-handed weapon....not a one-handed weapon used in the off hand.
Emrys Donovan 09-21-05, 12:36 AM	What he meant was that you can use it to damage your opponent and damage unattended equipment, but you can no longer use it to damage equipment that is attended (such as equipment a person is holding or wearing)Ok, sounds good, thanks. And Gonbow, I was only planning on using it to damage opponents. If I wanted to attack equipment, I'd throw Tzur at you with his +17 to sunder. :P
xanadu 09-21-05, 01:21 AM	Inspired by all those "fighters are..." threads, I present: Fighter (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6326254) Think this guy can cut it at ECL 12? LOL, I bet he'd lose to some current gladiators...
Luni 09-21-05, 01:31 AM	Inspired by all those "fighters are..." threads, I present: Fighter (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6326254) Think this guy can cut it at ECL 12? LOL, I bet he'd lose to some current gladiators... Weakling! I respond with Lord Talack (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7307744&postcount=472)
Emrys Donovan 09-21-05, 01:35 AM	Weakling! I respond with Lord Talack (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7307744&postcount=472)"Under construction until I get 28 credits." :heehee
Luni 09-21-05, 01:40 AM	"Under construction until I get 28 credits." :heehee It is true. Hopefully, by the time I'll have 28 credits, there will actually be level 10 gladiators.
xanadu 09-21-05, 01:44 AM	Hey! You cant make that an active gladiator. Currently, I believe Draconis Regina has the highest strength of any gladius gladiator. She will be forced to take measures to ensure that remains so...
Tellish_of_Ket 09-21-05, 01:45 AM	It is true. Hopefully, by the time I'll have 28 credits, there will actually be level 10 gladiators. Ya. I have a level 10 werebear that's been almost ready to go for a long time at 10th level. Waiting to get a bunch up there for the Ironman contest. -ToK
TheMagister 09-21-05, 01:46 AM	Again...logcially you are correct. Mechanically, you still have to get around that line that says it is used as an off-hand weapon. If it was intended to be either the primary or off hand, then they would have written that it can be used as a one-handed weapon....not a one-handed weapon used in the off hand. To this I respond: Used this way (to bash), a heavy shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a heavy shield as a one-handed weapon. A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary or the off-hand. But I'm just repeating myself at this point. I don't really agree with you, though. I can see where you're coming from, but I don't agree with it. I can totally imagine a fighter wanting to specialize in shield-bashing as a primary weapon. It would be an unorthodox fighting style, but hardly impossible or unbelieveable. Since the language in about three different places says one thing, and the instance of one sentence says another, I'm going to stick to my guns on this one. Thanks for the conversation, and if you come up with anything else, let me know. TM
Luni 09-21-05, 01:47 AM	Hey! You cant make that an active gladiator. Currently, I believe Draconis Regina has the highest strength of any gladius gladiator. She will be forced to take measures to ensure that remains so... Get Draconis up to ECL 10, and we can have a duel. Or, we could just kill all the weaklings. Maybe we need a Strength Guild. Only people with 28+ Strength need apply. Aside: Can someone check my math on the weight limits? The fact that Dire Wolf form allows him to carry 4152 lbs as light seems a bit high to me.
Usurpator 09-21-05, 01:52 AM	Can anyone enlighten me about the use of the "max. 10-round delay or forfeit" rule used here in CoCo? This week a gladiator of mine broke the 10 round barrier without initiating significant interaction, and an opponent of a gladiator of mine broke it as well. Since I have seen gladiators get disqualified over breaking it. Is this up to the Pitlord? I always assume no gladiator would like to be disqualified like this, so if I Pitlord a fight I would make any gladiator at least try to do something significant in round 9, even if it goes against given tactics. Should I do this?
Luni 09-21-05, 01:57 AM	Can anyone enlighten me about the use of the "max. 10-round delay or forfeit" rule used here in CoCo? This week a gladiator of mine broke the 10 round barrier without initiating significant interaction, and an opponent of a gladiator of mine broke it as well. Since I have seen gladiators get disqualified over breaking it. Is this up to the Pitlord? I always assume no gladiator would like to be disqualified like this, so if I Pitlord a fight I would make any gladiator at least try to do something significant in round 9, even if it goes against given tactics. Should I do this? Well, I'd only disqualify someone if they were deliberately avoiding a fight. For example, always withdrawing, and your opponent doesn't have a reach weapon and you both move at the same speed. If the delay is because they are both running around the arena, and just can't find each other. Or 2 Invisible Fighters, I'd have the crowd throw bottles to highlight their position [+100 on Listen].
Snommelp 09-21-05, 02:06 AM	There is a non-cumulative 10-round limit to delaying tactics. Every ten rounds, you have to interact meaningfully with your opponent. If you do not, the pitlord is free to introduce some unfortunate circumstance (a random spectator yelling out your exact position, for example, or people throwing beer bottles at you) that makes you vulnerable. Note that this limit only applies if one of the characters wants to engage the other, but the other one is hiding, invisible, or out of reach. If both characters are doing their best to fight the other, no penalty should be introduced. Similarly, if a wizard is flying over the head of a melee fighter and peppering him with Magic Missiles while he is unable to do anything, no penalty should be given, since there is meaningful interaction between the gladiators. Can I leave the Arena by teleporting, plane shifting, etc? You can, but there is a ten-round limit on leaving the Arena. Unlike the 10-round limit to delaying tactics, this limit is cumulative. If you spend a total of ten rounds or more outside the Arena, you automatically lose. "Outside the arena" can mean two things: you are outside the arena if you physically leave it (via Teleport or Dimension Door, for instance), or if you leave the Prime Material Plane (through a spell like Ethereal Jaunt). Note that burrowing into the ground or Melding into some stone part of the Arena does not count as leaving; it would probably count against the non-cumulative 10-round limit on delaying tactics, though.You have to actually leave the arena for ten rounds to be disqualified. Constantly avoiding your opponent merely adds an "unfortunate circumstance" which will in theory stop the delay tactic. If this has changed, the rules need to be updated.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-21-05, 02:09 AM	Hey! You cant make that an active gladiator. Currently, I believe Draconis Regina has the highest strength of any gladius gladiator. She will be forced to take measures to ensure that remains so... Well, my werebear would have an even greater str than her werewolf. So what you gonna do about that now? lol -ToK
xanadu 09-21-05, 02:17 AM	What's up with the fascination of lycanthropes? They don't strike me as a must have template because you know every gladiator will have a silver weapon.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-21-05, 02:27 AM	What's up with the fascination of lycanthropes? They don't strike me as a must have template because you know every gladiator will have a silver weapon. But, does their piddly silver weapon compare to this? +10 melee, [MA] colossal Dwarven waraxe, 12d8+18 [19-20/x3][+5bab, +12str, -2size, -6weapsize, +1mw] Rage and full power attack on top of that, and you get 12d8+31, possible x3 crit. Median dmg is 85 dmg per swing. Currently no ECL 10 gladiator even has 85 hp. I think the highest there is 65, so it's a bit of overkill i know. :D Oh, and don't think he'll miss much with true strikes on every attack. Even Lord Tallack would die in one hit with her DR 10/silver. Whereas my guy has [+12barb, +(6*(4.5 bear HD)), +56 Con] = 95 HP [109 raged] HP...so i'm sure he take a few hits from a silver weapon. :D -ToK
xanadu 09-21-05, 02:35 AM	Might I ask how your guy gets to weild a "real" colossal (!) weapon? I got a colossal shillelagh but that's only 6d6.
Luni 09-21-05, 02:36 AM	But, does their piddly silver weapon compare to this? +10 melee, [MA] colossal Dwarven waraxe, 12d8+18 [19-20/x3][+5bab, +12str, -2size, -6weapsize, +1mw] Rage and full power attack on top of that, and you get 12d8+31, possible x3 crit. Median dmg is 85 dmg per swing. Currently no ECL 10 gladiator even has 85 hp. I think the highest there is 65, so it's a bit of overkill i know. :D Oh, and don't think he'll miss much with true strikes on every attack. Even Lord Tallack would die in one hit with her DR 10/silver. Whereas my guy has [+12barb, +(6*(4.5 bear HD)), +56 Con] = 95 HP [109 raged] HP...so i'm sure he take a few hits from a silver weapon. :D -ToK I'm curious how a Barbarian gets to cast True Strike. I wonder if a ballista would make a good ranged weapon.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-21-05, 02:37 AM	Might I ask how your guy gets to weild a "real" colossal (!) weapon? I got a colossal shillelagh but that's only 6d6. I'm a HUGE sized humanoid, so i start of already with huge-sized weapons. Medium for me, Maybe collosal isn't the right word, as it would only be guargantuan to me, but collosal++ to everyone else. Besides, it just sounds meaner. :D I'm curious how a Barbarian gets to cast True Strike. Ring of spell storing :D ....AND if decide to buy him a belt of strength, or just use cheaper potions, you can add 4 more pts to his strength. -ToK
Usurpator 09-21-05, 02:39 AM	@Luni & Snommelp, I rarely see one gladiator not wanting to fight the other, I often see each gladiator wanting to fight on their own terms. And meeting those terms often causes a lot of delay, withdrawing, readying, buffing etc. etc. The invisible sneak wants to set up a good shot, and if he is a slow mover, it might take him 10 rounds or more to get to a position when he can fire a good shot, let alone if his opponent occasionally moves around the arena. The archer wants to take a shot a the wizard beyond the distance of his close range spells, the wizard wants to avoid getting shot at until the archer comes within close range. Consequently, the wizard will be constantly breaking LOS and seeking cover, the archer moving around at a distance, trying to get off a shot, but never closing to close range. Technically, this could take forever, but is one of them actually trying to avoid the fight? I often see Pitlords counting buffing against the 10-round limit, but buffing is not in itself a sign of wanting to avoid a fight, or is it?
xanadu 09-21-05, 02:42 AM	I'm a HUGE sized humanoid, so i start of already with huge-sized weapons. Medium for me, Maybe collosal isn't the right word, as it would only be guargantuan to me, but collosal++ to everyone else. Besides, it just sounds meaner. :D Ring of spell storing :D ....AND if decide to buy him a belt of strength, or just use cheaper potions, you can add 4 more pts to his strength. -ToK I think I'd grapple that guy so he couldn't use his true-strike megaweapon :P
Tellish_of_Ket 09-21-05, 02:45 AM	I think I'd grapple that guy so he couldn't use his true-strike megaweapon :P Oh yeah...it's a +1 weapon, so add 1 pt of damage and +1d6 frost. Ok, you can grapple me +15/+15/+10 claw/claw/bite, or +29 grapple checks. The gapple check isn't uber-impressive, but still damn good. -ToK
Luni 09-21-05, 02:48 AM	The chart only goes up to Collosal sized weapons. Lord Talack's Collosal Greatsword [+2] +10 melee 8d6+33 [+5 BAB +14 Str +2 Magic + -2 Size - 4 Weapon Size - 5 Power Attack]. Average 51. Not quite enough. I'll also buy a ring of Spell Storing.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-21-05, 02:51 AM	The chart only goes up to Collosal sized weapons. Lord Talack's Collosal Greatsword [+2] +10 melee 8d6+33 [+5 BAB +14 Str +2 Magic + -2 Size - 4 Weapon Size - 5 Power Attack]. Average 51. Not quite enough. I'll also buy a ring of Spell Storing. WHAT! Copy cat :P. And u'd be at -6 weapon size, unless u start off huge as well. -ToK
Luni 09-21-05, 02:54 AM	WHAT! Copy cat :p. And u'd be at -6 weapon size, unless u start off huge as well. -ToK I think you are wrong on damage, but I see now how to do it. Collosal Greatsword 8d6 Collosal+ Greatsword 12d6? Collosal++ Greatsword 16d6?
Tellish_of_Ket 09-21-05, 02:57 AM	I think you are wrong on damage, but I see now how to do it. Collosal Greatsword 8d6 Collosal+ Greatsword 12d6? Collosal++ Greatsword 16d6? Yup. But ya. I'm off on my dmg. It would be more. I missed a thing or two and there still some fine-tuning to do. Maybe someday i'll get around to finishing the build. -ToK
Luni 09-21-05, 03:03 AM	Lord Talack's Collosal Greatsword 32d6+66dmg +30 melee [+14 Str +5 BAB +2 Magic -2 Size -6 Weapon Size -5 Pow Attack +2 Charge +20 True Strike] There we go. Average Damage: 178
Tellish_of_Ket 09-21-05, 04:06 AM	Lord Talack's Collosal Greatsword 32d6+66dmg +30 melee [+14 Str +5 BAB +2 Magic -2 Size -6 Weapon Size -5 Pow Attack +2 Charge +20 True Strike] There we go. Average Damage: 178 Should be -12 weapon size for you. Or -10 at best, with only +24 or +22 to hit. :P That sword though, would cost you a pretty penny. Remember, price doubles for every size category you go up. I'm not sure how we'd weild these weapons. I'm sure the damage, is from standing it up on end, and FALLING upon your opponent. LOL -ToK
Vathelokai 09-21-05, 06:55 AM	Can anyone enlighten me about the use of the "max. 10-round delay or forfeit" rule used here in CoCo? This week a gladiator of mine broke the 10 round barrier without initiating significant interaction, and an opponent of a gladiator of mine broke it as well. Since I have seen gladiators get disqualified over breaking it. Is this up to the Pitlord? I always assume no gladiator would like to be disqualified like this, so if I Pitlord a fight I would make any gladiator at least try to do something significant in round 9, even if it goes against given tactics. Should I do this? I try to follow the 'use the tactics even if they are bad' route. The only time I have disqualified someone was Ch'ch'ili. He made himself invis and tried to regain psionic focus. His concentration score was horrible at the time, so it didn't really work. Since he had no other attack form except psionic shot (none that mattered anyway) and his melee opponent was faster, it would have been suicide to do anything else. Some pitlords use wisdom checks to see if the character could come up with a strategy on the fly. I think as long as you put a note in the fight that you did so, it would be reasonable to go against tactics instead of disqualifying the delayer.
michael_noah 09-21-05, 08:51 AM	Apart from the fact that weapon finesse just doesn't apply to grappling - even if you think it does, here is why it cannot: Benefit With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls. When you make an opposed grapple check, you are not attacking with a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain, so weapon finesse cannot apply. Also note the last line. I don't think a lot of people know this.
NiQil 09-21-05, 10:56 AM	Apart from the fact that weapon finesse just doesn't apply to grappling - even if you think it does, here is why it cannot: When you make an opposed grapple check, you are not attacking with a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain, so weapon finesse cannot apply. Also note the last line. I don't think a lot of people know this. See my post in the FotW thread. The 3.0 FAQ determined that a grapple check is an unarmed opposed attack roll. Attacking unarmed is always considered to be attacking with a light weapon.
Snommelp 09-21-05, 11:03 AM	@Luni & Snommelp, I rarely see one gladiator not wanting to fight the other, I often see each gladiator wanting to fight on their own terms. And meeting those terms often causes a lot of delay, withdrawing, readying, buffing etc. etc. The invisible sneak wants to set up a good shot, and if he is a slow mover, it might take him 10 rounds or more to get to a position when he can fire a good shot, let alone if his opponent occasionally moves around the arena. The archer wants to take a shot a the wizard beyond the distance of his close range spells, the wizard wants to avoid getting shot at until the archer comes within close range. Consequently, the wizard will be constantly breaking LOS and seeking cover, the archer moving around at a distance, trying to get off a shot, but never closing to close range. Technically, this could take forever, but is one of them actually trying to avoid the fight? I often see Pitlords counting buffing against the 10-round limit, but buffing is not in itself a sign of wanting to avoid a fight, or is it? As long as you are trying to fight, the 10-round rule doesn't apply. As it says in the Rules of Gladius, a melee character fighting against a flying wizard would not be subject to the 10-round rule, because he cannot help the situation. An invisible sneak trying to get into position to hit his opponent is definitely not delaying. A wizard trying to get his opponent into range without getting shot is attempting to initiate combat, so she's not delaying. An archer trying to shoot his opponent while staying far away is not delaying, either. If the wizard and archer met, it would be a long, boring fight, but none of the above examples would be subject to the 10-round rule. Buffing is trickier. Technically, a buffer is not trying to initiate combat while buffing. However, the delay-tactic 10-round counter resets itself after the character stops delaying, so if a buffer has eleven rounds of buff spells to cast, concievably he could buff for nine, start looking for his opponent (no longer delaying), then cast the other two and go from there. Of course, by then most opponents will have found the buffer anyway. EDIT: And it seems most people have either forgotten or don't realize that the ten-round rule is two-fold. There's one counter for delay tactics. It resets itself each time. If it counts down to zero, a minor penalty happens. There's another counter for leaving the arena. It does not reset. If it reaches zero, the character is disqualified.
TelinArtho 09-21-05, 11:33 AM	Once Daeren Stronghammer has reached level 5 (either this week or the week following), he's going to want to go on an ECL5 quest (if by himself). He is not opposed to taking along someone to help him. If someone goes with him, the ECL will need to be 8+. Any takers? Daeren is a true neutral dwarven barbarian/wizard. For level 5, he'll be picking up another level of wizard - so he'll have some 2nd level spells available. As an aside, I'm also looking for a questlord (for 1 or 2 gladiators), though I have a long standing invitation from King Uther if no one steps up. Daeren's quest goal will be a Tan Bag of Tricks (value 6300gp).
SoulLord 09-21-05, 01:18 PM	Since new skill uses are being created can one get a MW tool to increase the knowledage skill? I can see this as Books on the subject knowledage
TelinArtho 09-21-05, 01:24 PM	The issue of augmented tattoos came up in the prison thread, and it seems to indicate that all augmented tattoos are blackmarket items. If this is the case, we've got a lot of characters in violation (I believe...). However, before sending them to prison, I want to make sure I've got the rules down correctly. I've quoted the relevant sections of the Rules thread and the Blackmarket thread. If Cat/Pitlords could respond quickly on this issue - that would surely help. Augmented Powerstones/Tattoos: For every two manifester levels above the minimum, the power level increases by one. This directly affects the pricing of such items. It only applies to augmented stones and tattoos. Unaugmented ones use the normal formula. Example (augmented): VigorA [ML 5] = 25*5*3 = 375 gp [+25 hp] Example (unaugmented): Vigor [ML 5] = 25*5*1 = 125 gp [+5 hp] You may pay credits to get the right to buy custom single-use expendable items with a higher casterlevel. This only applies to scrolls, tattoos (incl. crawling tattoos), and powerstones. You may pay 1° per 2 CL above the normal limit (max 20). Normally, you can only buy scrolls and powerstones up to your ECL+2, and minimum ML for tattoos. Note that two spells on one scroll still count as two custom items as do several custom powers stored within one powerstone! I admit, I'm not real familiar with how applying power points (to augment a stone/tattoo) would increase the ML of the power - so this may not be an issue at all, but I'd like to understand it once and for all.
NiQil 09-21-05, 01:29 PM	The issue of augmented tattoos came up in the prison thread, and it seems to indicate that all augmented tattoos are blackmarket items. If this is the case, we've got a lot of characters in violation (I believe...). However, before sending them to prison, I want to make sure I've got the rules down correctly. I've quoted the relevant sections of the Rules thread and the Blackmarket thread. If Cat/Pitlords could respond quickly on this issue - that would surely help. I admit, I'm not real familiar with how applying power points (to augment a stone/tattoo) would increase the ML of the power - so this may not be an issue at all, but I'd like to understand it once and for all. Augmenting a power does not, in and of itself, increase the ML. It merely means that more power points were spent on it to increase it's effect. Unlike spells, this does not increase the ML. However, in COCO, this has been altered (as seen in your first quote), slightly, so that any augmentation of tattoos *does increase the ML for purposes of cost. As far as I can tell, this increase in ML would require a credit expenditure (since the second quote you provided clearly states it does if it is beyond the minimum ML), and therefore means that any augmented tattoo does, indeed, require credit expenditure.
Luni 09-21-05, 01:41 PM	The issue of augmented tattoos came up in the prison thread, and it seems to indicate that all augmented tattoos are blackmarket items. If this is the case, we've got a lot of characters in violation (I believe...). However, before sending them to prison, I want to make sure I've got the rules down correctly. I've quoted the relevant sections of the Rules thread and the Blackmarket thread. If Cat/Pitlords could respond quickly on this issue - that would surely help. I admit, I'm not real familiar with how applying power points (to augment a stone/tattoo) would increase the ML of the power - so this may not be an issue at all, but I'd like to understand it once and for all. I think the mininum ML of tattoos is to keep them the same as Potions.
Gonbow 09-21-05, 02:05 PM	Augmenting a power does not, in and of itself, increase the ML. It merely means that more power points were spent on it to increase it's effect. Unlike spells, this does not increase the ML. However, in COCO, this has been altered (as seen in your first quote), slightly, so that any augmentation of tattoos *does increase the ML for purposes of cost. As far as I can tell, this increase in ML would require a credit expenditure (since the second quote you provided clearly states it does if it is beyond the minimum ML), and therefore means that any augmented tattoo does, indeed, require credit expenditure. Augmenting a tattoo DOES increase the ML, RAW. (Or to be more precise, you cant augment a tattoo until you raise the ML above minimum) When manifesting a power, you can spend a number of power points between the minimum to manifest the spell and your effective ML. Thus, a ML 1 (A level one power, such as Vigor) tattoo cannot have more than 1 point power spent in it, and thus, cannot be augmented as there are no 0-cost powers. The same thing goes for every other level of tattoos; you just cant do it without increasing the ML by at least 1 above minimum.
King Uther 09-21-05, 02:10 PM	This is something that was mentioned a long time ago, and it involves an Ironman tournament for a custom Avatar in the COCO. Since I havent heard it mentioned in many months, I thought I would bring it up to enlighten any newcomers. The ideal level starting point is around 10[Although I'd vote for 11 or 12], and each player gets only one character. Last man standing wins the Avatar. I'd like to re-discuss this. These are the 2 options: 1. Ironman: You start with your numbers of spells/abilities per day, and when you run out your out. a. 1/3 rule is in effect for each fight b. 1/3 rule is not used in contest 2. Straight tournament: You regain abilities/spells after each fight. 1/3 rule has to be in effect. The thing is Ironman favors the fighter the more fights he is in, and overall provides a better strategic and compelling contest. But it also puts some power into the expendable heavy characters, which means some rules about them must be made before the contest bracket is set up.
Luni 09-21-05, 02:17 PM	This is something that was mentioned a long time ago, and it involves an Ironman tournament for a custom Avatar in the COCO. Since I havent heard it mentioned in many months, I thought I would bring it up to enlighten any newcomers. The ideal level starting point is around 10[Although I'd vote for 11 or 12], and each player gets only one character. Last man standing wins the Avatar. I'd like to re-discuss this. These are the 2 options: 1. Ironman: You start with your numbers of spells/abilities per day, and when you run out your out. a. 1/3 rule is in effect for each fight b. 1/3 rule is not used in contest 2. Straight tournament: You regain abilities/spells after each fight. 1/3 rule has to be in effect. The thing is Ironman favors the fighter the more fights he is in, and overall provides a better strategic and compelling contest. But it also puts some power into the expendable heavy characters, which means some rules about them must be made before the contest bracket is set up. I'd prefer number 1a. People will have lots of expendables, but that would happen no matter what way we went.
SauroGrenom 09-21-05, 02:28 PM	The issue of augmented tattoos came up in the prison thread, and it seems to indicate that all augmented tattoos are blackmarket items. If this is the case, we've got a lot of characters in violation (I believe...). However, before sending them to prison, I want to make sure I've got the rules down correctly. I've quoted the relevant sections of the Rules thread and the Blackmarket thread. If Cat/Pitlords could respond quickly on this issue - that would surely help. :gah: :twitch: I even asked about this when I first made Rebreg. It came up becasue I originally had an Enlarge Potion and it doesn't effect Half-Giants. Those in the Prison thread suggested that I buy an Augmented Expansion Tattoo. An Unaugmented Expansion Tattoo is basically useless because the durration is one round, but augmented 2pp and manifested at 3rd level its durration is a usefull 3 minutes and only slightly more expensive than an Enlarge Person potion. What to do? It seams that psionic tattoo's are intended to be basically equivalent to Potions, but since psionic powers sometimes require augmentation to be actually equivalent to the spell version then requiring credits to buy the tattoo is unreasonable in my opinion. Take for example that the basic Barkskin +2 potion costs 300gp and requires a CL3, but a Barkskin Potion +5 costs 1200gp and requires a CL15. Is the Barkskin+5 potion an Augmented caster level potion? I could understand if the CL or ML was augmented due to the use of metamagic or metapsionic feats, then that might require buying the item on the blackmarket.
Pitlords 09-21-05, 02:54 PM	@all: Just a quick note: Pairings will be done later that day as I have some work to do. They will be done today, though. Cat
NiQil 09-21-05, 02:55 PM	Heh...there's one way to find out....force the issue. I just threw The Harvester in jail in the Prison thread with an audit....he has several augmented powerstones so we should get an answer LOL.
TelinArtho 09-21-05, 03:00 PM	The thing is the powerstones wouldn't be in violation... it has to be the tattoos... (stones allow a ML of ECL+2)
NiQil 09-21-05, 03:07 PM	The thing is the powerstones wouldn't be in violation... it has to be the tattoos... (stones allow a ML of ECL+2) For some reason I had it in my head that you were asking about both.
TelinArtho 09-21-05, 03:08 PM	You realize that now the Harvester is going to come and impale you... right?
NiQil 09-21-05, 03:11 PM	You realize that now the Harvester is going to come and impale you... right? Eh...wouldn't be the first time Cat has wanted to beat me over the head with a blunt object of some kind LOL. But hey....if he throws down a challenge at least he'll break one of my new characters in properly LOL. Besides....did you see the OG (over gold) he is wearing? We need to get the Gladius repo man after him LOL.
Luni 09-21-05, 03:22 PM	Eh...wouldn't be the first time Cat has wanted to beat me over the head with a blunt object of some kind LOL. But hey....if he throws down a challenge at least he'll break one of my new characters in properly LOL. Besides....did you see the OG (over gold) he is wearing? We need to get the Gladius repo man after him LOL. My math says The Harvester over spent 460 gp. Total gold being 6049.
Begferdeth 09-21-05, 03:22 PM	Ok... so according to this, did Ch'Ch'Ili NOT get disqualified? He never went more that 5 rounds ina row without getting his focus back and firing his shot off... But he did spend a lot of rounds hiding and concentrating. I might have to go back to my 'take the time to snipe him right' strategy... Even though it takes forever. Sorry, pitlords... :rolleyes: As long as you are trying to fight, the 10-round rule doesn't apply. As it says in the Rules of Gladius, a melee character fighting against a flying wizard would not be subject to the 10-round rule, because he cannot help the situation. An invisible sneak trying to get into position to hit his opponent is definitely not delaying. A wizard trying to get his opponent into range without getting shot is attempting to initiate combat, so she's not delaying. An archer trying to shoot his opponent while staying far away is not delaying, either. If the wizard and archer met, it would be a long, boring fight, but none of the above examples would be subject to the 10-round rule. Buffing is trickier. Technically, a buffer is not trying to initiate combat while buffing. However, the delay-tactic 10-round counter resets itself after the character stops delaying, so if a buffer has eleven rounds of buff spells to cast, concievably he could buff for nine, start looking for his opponent (no longer delaying), then cast the other two and go from there. Of course, by then most opponents will have found the buffer anyway. EDIT: And it seems most people have either forgotten or don't realize that the ten-round rule is two-fold. There's one counter for delay tactics. It resets itself each time. If it counts down to zero, a minor penalty happens. There's another counter for leaving the arena. It does not reset. If it reaches zero, the character is disqualified.
NiQil 09-21-05, 03:26 PM	My math says The Harvester over spent 460 gp. Total gold being 6049. I am guessing the way you added it was to remove the list of past expendables from his current equipment. However, without some designation that they *have been used, then we have to assume that they are unused equipment. I even stated as much in my audit.
Altaris13 09-21-05, 03:40 PM	Just something I saw on the DnD main page. Sci Fi's DnD 2, the movie. (http://www.scifi.com/dnd/)
Snommelp 09-21-05, 04:12 PM	Ok... so according to this, did Ch'Ch'Ili NOT get disqualified? He never went more that 5 rounds ina row without getting his focus back and firing his shot off... But he did spend a lot of rounds hiding and concentrating. I might have to go back to my 'take the time to snipe him right' strategy... Even though it takes forever. Sorry, pitlords... :rolleyes: I'm not saying what did or did not happen, but according to the Rules of Gladius as posted, Ch'Ch'Ili should not have been disqualified, if what you say is true. I admit I didn't read that fight, so I'm taking your word for it.
NiQil 09-21-05, 04:21 PM	I'm not saying what did or did not happen, but according to the Rules of Gladius as posted, Ch'Ch'Ili should not have been disqualified, if what you say is true. I admit I didn't read that fight, so I'm taking your word for it. I'm actually glad this got brought up....I know in my first week of running fights last week I was using the 10-round disqual as it has been mentioned...with round 10 being diqualified (fortunately none of my fighters made it there). Now I see that I did it entirely wrong. However, I do want to point out that "meaningful interaction" does not include things like moving around trying to get a clean shot, as far as I know. Or things like withdrawing or just flat out running away. To me, "meaningful interaction" means you are trying to do something to your opponent (succeeding or not). Maybe we need a more concrete definition.
Pittbull 09-21-05, 05:24 PM	This is something that was mentioned a long time ago, and it involves an Ironman tournament for a custom Avatar in the COCO. Since I havent heard it mentioned in many months, I thought I would bring it up to enlighten any newcomers. The ideal level starting point is around 10[Although I'd vote for 11 or 12], and each player gets only one character. Last man standing wins the Avatar. I'd like to re-discuss this. These are the 2 options: 1. Ironman: You start with your numbers of spells/abilities per day, and when you run out your out. a. 1/3 rule is in effect for each fight b. 1/3 rule is not used in contest 2. Straight tournament: You regain abilities/spells after each fight. 1/3 rule has to be in effect. The thing is Ironman favors the fighter the more fights he is in, and overall provides a better strategic and compelling contest. But it also puts some power into the expendable heavy characters, which means some rules about them must be made before the contest bracket is set up. 1a might be a good solution! Man, I'm really looking forward to this! Can't wait to see Willbrock in action. DnDII- the return of the lip-stick warriors! :P
Altaris13 09-21-05, 05:42 PM	DnDII- the return of the lip-stick warriors! :P :heehee I have to say, that I hope to have a PC who will be up to the challenge of 1a.
SauroGrenom 09-21-05, 09:41 PM	It seams that the random gods of Arena match parring have it out for poor Rebreg my Half-Giant level2monk. I've got the most incredible loosing streek in the Arena. Mostly due to my own poor tactics, but this week I was matched against a level3 dwarf ranger who has giants as his favored enemy. If Rebreg can take this guy down, then he deserves double rewards. I don't realy want extra rewards, just trying to express that I'm a bit flabbergasted by the fickle nature of luck and unluck.
Snommelp 09-21-05, 09:45 PM	It seams that the random gods of Arena match parring have it out for poor Rebreg my Half-Giant level2monk. I've got the most incredible loosing streek in the Arena. Mostly due to my own poor tactics, but this week I was matched against a level3 dwarf ranger who has giants as his favored enemy. If Rebreg can take this guy down, then he deserves double rewards. I don't realy want extra rewards, just trying to express that I'm a bit flabbergasted by the fickle nature of luck and unluck. I'd happily offer to challenge you with one of my own gladiators, but I doubt you'd like that, seeing as both are ECL 4 and one is a dwarf.
Iced 09-21-05, 10:59 PM	The campaign in going to go ahead and start, but I still want a cleric to join. If you have a cleric and you would like to join a campaign please pm me. Level can be 3 or four and any alignment accepted by the E.H.T.C. JOIN MISSIONS ABROAD!!! ~Iced
SauroGrenom 09-21-05, 11:04 PM	Does a Tanglefoot bag count as a thrown splash weapon?
xanadu 09-22-05, 02:11 AM	Does a Tanglefoot bag count as a thrown splash weapon? I dont think in the sense that if things adjacent to the square are affected. Though, you do roll on the miss chart to see where it lands if it does not strike the target. NiQil - will we ever see your gladiators graduate the ECL 3 league?
Vathelokai 09-22-05, 07:23 AM	Ok... so according to this, did Ch'Ch'Ili NOT get disqualified? He never went more that 5 rounds ina row without getting his focus back and firing his shot off... But he did spend a lot of rounds hiding and concentrating. I might have to go back to my 'take the time to snipe him right' strategy... Even though it takes forever. Sorry, pitlords... :rolleyes: At the time I thought it was a total of 10 rounds of delays. If I remember right, Ch'ch'ili had 15 rounds before I finally disqualified him. I appologize, since the rules say I should have had an audience member throw stuff at him or something. But from what I remember of the fight, the dromite would have died in one round anyway. I guess I owe you one.
Guildmaster (TAO) 09-22-05, 08:25 AM	@SpellSlingers A change in the roster has occured, and TAO needs another member. Guildrules have changed again, and now any sorcerer, wizard or bard may apply. Get in while the gettings good!
Vathelokai 09-22-05, 08:30 AM	Announcement Uncon (http://wizo.wizards.com/uncon/pages/index.php) is here! For those of you that don't know, uncon is where you can win your own custom avatar, and have fun doing it.
King Uther 09-22-05, 11:25 AM	Gamefaqs is having the final vote for the Tournament of Champions! http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/Arkazzan/b66.jpg Make sure to vote if you even care.
Altaris13 09-22-05, 11:40 AM	Do you have a link?
TelinArtho 09-22-05, 01:58 PM	Once Daeren Stronghammer has reached level 5 (either this week or the week following), he's going to want to go on an ECL5 quest (if by himself). He is not opposed to taking along someone to help him. If someone goes with him, the ECL will need to be 8+. Any takers? Daeren is a true neutral dwarven barbarian/wizard. For level 5, he'll be picking up another level of wizard - so he'll have some 2nd level spells available. As an aside, I'm also looking for a questlord (for 1 or 2 gladiators), though I have a long standing invitation from King Uther if no one steps up. Daeren's quest goal will be a Tan Bag of Tricks (value 6300gp). Okay - so Nexa is going to be joining Daeren Stronghammer on his quest to get a Tan Bag of Tricks (she may also be looking for one - Usurpator speak up if you want something else). So, that means we're looking for a questlord to do an ECL 8 quest. Also, as a particular of the quest, we're going to be searching for a White Dragon (specifically a Young Adult one (CR8)). So cold weather etc... We are both waiting until we're level 5 for this, which means at least two weeks (Nexa is a little behind XP-wise) before we can begin.
TheMagister 09-22-05, 08:29 PM	Hey, where can I view my total credits earned? Thanks, TM
Luni 09-22-05, 09:05 PM	Hey, where can I view my total credits earned? Thanks, TM Open the Characters of Gladius thread, and scroll down til you see Pitlords. [Post #5] Or alternatively, click here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179881&postcount=5)
Emrys Donovan 09-22-05, 10:10 PM	Cat, I'd like to switch out the unused ranks two of my characters have in their professions and add them into other skills. Maximus: -4 ranks Profession: Tumbling; +2 ranks each to Listen and Spot Victoria: -3 ranks Profession: Deep Cover Agent; +1 rank to Spot, +2 ranks to Listen Is that ok?
TheMagister 09-22-05, 10:12 PM	Open the Characters of Gladius thread, and scroll down til you see Pitlords. [Post #5] Or alternatively, click here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179881&postcount=5) Hey, thanks for the info, and the handy link! TM
Emrys Donovan 09-22-05, 10:26 PM	Would anyone mind checking out Hope (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7325524&postcount=475)? Thanks.
Luni 09-22-05, 10:35 PM	Would anyone mind checking out Hope (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7325524&postcount=475)? Thanks. You trying to create more characters then NiQil? Looks good though. Nothing jumps out at me. I wish I could get good pictures like that for my characters.
Emrys Donovan 09-22-05, 10:37 PM	You trying to create more characters then NiQil? Looks good though. Nothing jumps out at me. I wish I could get good pictures like that for my characters. Yup. That makes 9 for me. :P J/k...I just like creating characters...I know, its a little strange, but hey. Ok, thanks.
Gonbow 09-22-05, 10:56 PM	Re: Hope Grapple is wrong (You have no strength bonus) Your Longsword attack is wrong (+2, not +3) Your Mithril Shirt weighs a bit less than that (Ignore the mithril entry, go to the Magic Items entry for Mithril Shirts.) Otherwise, looks good.
Begferdeth 09-22-05, 10:59 PM	Hey Emrys... Did you get Hope's HP right? You have 8+4.5+2.5+3... that adds to 18 in my head. You also have +2 Wis bonus on you Will save, but only a +1 Will bonus. Thats all I saw!
Mind Rogue 09-22-05, 11:09 PM	Even with rapid reload, you can't get two shots off with a heavy crossbow. I suggest that either you switch it and the appropriate feats for a light crossbow or else you pick up craft(fletchery) rather than craft (weaponsmithing) and go with a longbow. This would also allow you to dump rapid reload for another feat, such as perhaps greater psionic shot. You also forgot to give the sum for your normal AC (17) although you did give the breakdown as well as your touch and flat-footed values. Your max hp should be 18, not 15. Aside from that, she looks pretty good. I like her avatar. But you know, some of us settle the need to build lots of characters by becoming DMs. "This is my Anchor of Hope..." Sorry, your character reminded me of a quote. ~gives handsign for 'Hope'~
NiQil 09-22-05, 11:12 PM	<intentionally ignoring any and all slanderous mention of my supurb 3rd level character building skills made in prior posts> :D
Emrys Donovan 09-22-05, 11:26 PM	Re: Hope Grapple is wrong (You have no strength bonus) Your Longsword attack is wrong (+2, not +3) Your Mithril Shirt weighs a bit less than that (Ignore the mithril entry, go to the Magic Items entry for Mithril Shirts.) Otherwise, looks good.Fixed. Thanks. Hey Emrys... Did you get Hope's HP right? You have 8+4.5+2.5+3... that adds to 18 in my head. You also have +2 Wis bonus on you Will save, but only a +1 Will bonus. Thats all I saw!Hp is fixed. And I accidentally had my Wis mod listed wrong, it should be +2. Thanks Even with rapid reload, you can't get two shots off with a heavy crossbow. I suggest that either you switch it and the appropriate feats for a light crossbow or else you pick up craft(fletchery) rather than craft (weaponsmithing) and go with a longbow. This would also allow you to dump rapid reload for another feat, such as perhaps greater psionic shot. You also forgot to give the sum for your normal AC (17) although you did give the breakdown as well as your touch and flat-footed values. Your max hp should be 18, not 15. Aside from that, she looks pretty good. I like her avatar. But you know, some of us settle the need to build lots of characters by becoming DMs. "This is my Anchor of Hope..." Sorry, your character reminded me of a quote. ~gives handsign for 'Hope'~Rapid Shot gives me that extra attack. Lol, I could have sworn I put her AC in after posting her...I saw I had forgotten her AC values, and then edited them in...must've missed that one. Oh well, fixed now. And Hp's been fixed as well. Thanks.
TheMagister 09-22-05, 11:30 PM	Fixed. Thanks. Hp is fixed. And I accidentally had my Wis mod listed wrong, it should be +2. Thanks Rapid Shot gives me that extra attack. Lol, I could have sworn I put her AC in after posting her...I saw I had forgotten her AC values, and then edited them in...must've missed that one. Oh well, fixed now. And Hp's been fixed as well. Thanks. Rapid Reload lets you load a heavy crossbow as a move action instead of a full-round action. You still can't Rapid Shot with a heavy crossbow. TM
Emrys Donovan 09-22-05, 11:40 PM	Ok, I'll change it to a light crossbow.
King Uther 09-23-05, 12:31 AM	@Luni If you need pictures, all you need is ask. I have access to roughly infinite good ones[although personally I used the same couple of artists consistently].
Emrys Donovan 09-23-05, 12:33 AM	@Luni If you need pictures, all you need is ask. I have access to roughly infinite good ones[although personally I used the same couple of artists consistently]. May I ask where you get your pictures?
King Uther 09-23-05, 02:27 AM	Sorry questers I was out of town. I will commence questing and campaigning in the morning.
TheMagister 09-23-05, 03:21 AM	Say, does having a spiritual weapon attack an enemy break your invisibility? It's just like having a summoned monster attack an enemy, isn't it? TM
Pittbull 09-23-05, 03:58 AM	Attacking with spirituel weapon breaks invisibility, sorry.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-23-05, 05:38 AM	Say, does having a spiritual weapon attack an enemy break your invisibility? It's just like having a summoned monster attack an enemy, isn't it? TM I second pittbull. It does break invis. -ToK
Vathelokai 09-23-05, 06:43 AM	Say, does having a spiritual weapon attack an enemy break your invisibility? It's just like having a summoned monster attack an enemy, isn't it? TM There is a section on it in the FAQ. Any spell that has a target dispels invis. So spiritual weapon...the active spell effect is targeting someone to cause damage. With summon monster, the spell effect only summons the creature. Even detect magic will break invis, once it targets something. As a general rule, summons do not break invis, but evocations (like spiritual weapon) do.
Altaris13 09-23-05, 08:49 AM	@Luni If you need pictures, all you need is ask. I have access to roughly infinite good ones[although personally I used the same couple of artists consistently]. Yes, please share! :D I'm always on the hunt for more pictures from great artists. I tend not to use them online much, but I ADORE using them for NPCs & PCs in my TT games. But you know, some of us settle the need to build lots of characters by becoming DMs. You know, this is so true. I originally started DMing just to use all the cool and over developed characters that I had created. Over time though, I've come to focus more on the PCs for story and development then on the hooks of my own NPCs.
TelinArtho 09-23-05, 09:34 AM	Quick clarification needed for training: If you are training an ally, is that ally available for the fight during the week it is being trained? If it is, does it have the trick you are training it for available?
xanadu 09-23-05, 11:22 AM	Quick clarification needed for training: If you are training an ally, is that ally available for the fight during the week it is being trained? If it is, does it have the trick you are training it for available? I believe so. At least that was the case with a number of my past opponents.
Emrys Donovan 09-23-05, 12:02 PM	But you know, some of us settle the need to build lots of characters by becoming DMs.I was going to become one, but no one around me plays DnD, though I'll probably go to the local game store and ask the owner if I can post a message looking for players who can meet there. <intentionally ignoring any and all slanderous mention of my supurb 3rd level character building skills made in prior posts> :DI didn't make any slanderous remarks regarding your pc building skills, lol. Just saying I'm trying to make more pc's than you. :P (j/k)
NiQil 09-23-05, 12:23 PM	I was going to become one, but no one around me plays DnD, though I'll probably go to the local game store and ask the owner if I can post a message looking for players who can meet there. I didn't make any slanderous remarks regarding your pc building skills, lol. Just saying I'm trying to make more pc's than you. :P (j/k) Good luck....then Cat can rail on you instead of me LOL. But, if my count is correct, you are about 10 or so behind...get crackin'.
TelinArtho 09-23-05, 12:40 PM	Since Zamier died in his first week - I just figured I'd open up the room for another offer of a questlord. If you have a character or there are several characters who would like to go on a quest - let me know. /d
Emrys Donovan 09-23-05, 01:34 PM	Good luck....then Cat can rail on you instead of me LOL. But, if my count is correct, you are about 10 or so behind...get crackin'. Lol, no, I'm restraining myself now. No more for me...unless one dies, which i don't see happening.
Usurpator 09-23-05, 02:22 PM	Quick clarification needed for training: If you are training an ally, is that ally available for the fight during the week it is being trained? If it is, does it have the trick you are training it for available? Logically, the ally should be available, just without the trick, since it takes a week to train. If you are doing the training during the current week, well, then the week is not yet over when you fight, so the training isn't finished yet.....
SauroGrenom 09-23-05, 02:25 PM	Has the issue of Augmented Tattoos costing credits been resolved by the Elders yet?
TelinArtho 09-23-05, 02:30 PM	Not officially - I think Cat's been too busy to notice it - and the rest of the elders just didn't speak up... I only had one character in design that would have used them, but its going to be a while before he's introduced - so that's why I haven't pressed the matter further. If you need the answer - send a PM to Cat/other elders to see if they'll examine it.
NiQil 09-23-05, 02:42 PM	Logically, the ally should be available, just without the trick, since it takes a week to train. If you are doing the training during the current week, well, then the week is not yet over when you fight, so the training isn't finished yet..... Logically yes, this is true...however if you are doing the training (i.e. not paying someone), the Rules thread states that you can train them and still fight in the same week because training is considered a free activity. Training and Time: According to the rules, you need to spend only 3 hours a day training with your companion which doesn't interfere with your arena fight. Once a week, as a Free Activity, you may teach one trick to your animal. You have to link this activity. Since you have to link each trick you train, you would be one week behind....i.e train it and have it available with no tricks that week...train it again in week 2 and have it available only with the trick learned in week 1, etc.
NiQil 09-23-05, 04:47 PM	Alright....I don't wanna sound like a killjoy here (which is why this is here and not in the Council thread)...but with that guild map out....I have the ever-increasing feeling that what we are really doing is building Gladius Risk.
SauroGrenom 09-23-05, 07:20 PM	Alright....I don't wanna sound like a killjoy here (which is why this is here and not in the Council thread)...but with that guild map out....I have the ever-increasing feeling that what we are really doing is building Gladius Risk. Poignant critisizm there. The discussion is shaping up a formal rules system for the guilds to build, have influince, conflict with one another, and generally do stuff. But it has strayed far from the basic beginnings of a format for Roleplay. We must keep in mind that we are all D&D players and we use a very complicated rules system to compete amongst eachother and cooperatively tell a story or Arena Battle. There is a reason we use this complicated behemoth of rules to play. The more things you may want to do, then the more rules must be written to govern those interactions, else when player disputes come up their is no previously agreed upon way to resolve any dissagreements. So far it appears that guild members want to plot, and scheme, war with eachother, build stuff, expand their influince, and wield that influince against their rivals. To prevent conflicts down the road, the setting must be built, and the rules written. One of my major concerns is that the guild system may be seldom used. It appears that it will be totally seperate from the Arena, so the only incentive to join is whatever may be happening in the guilds could be a fun activity. What do you think would be fun enough to warrant your participation?
NiQil 09-23-05, 07:30 PM	Poignant critisizm there. The discussion is shaping up a formal rules system for the guilds to build, have influince, conflict with one another, and generally do stuff. But it has strayed far from the basic beginnings of a format for Roleplay. We must keep in mind that we are all D&D players and we use a very complicated rules system to compete amongst eachother and cooperatively tell a story or Arena Battle. There is a reason we use this complicated behemoth of rules to play. The more things you may want to do, then the more rules must be written to govern those interactions, else when player disputes come up their is no previously agreed upon way to resolve any dissagreements. So far it appears that guild members want to plot, and scheme, war with eachother, build stuff, expand their influince, and wield that influince against their rivals. To prevent conflicts down the road, the setting must be built, and the rules written. One of my major concerns is that the guild system may be seldom used. It appears that it will be totally seperate from the Arena, so the only incentive to join is whatever may be happening in the guilds could be a fun activity. What do you think would be fun enough to warrant your participation? See....that's the thing. When this all started, I got the impression that most people just wanted a place to roleplay, and maybe trash talk a little about whose guild was better, and maybe issue a few challenges as a result. Not a whole lot to ask. Now it has evolved into this huge undertaking, and I have seen the participation go down more and more as it gets more and more complicated. I personally don't think that is a coincidence. Just my two coppers.
nightbanegod 09-23-05, 08:10 PM	this may seem like a really late comment to be throwing into the mix. however. has anyone even formally asked ... "Who would like a complex set of rules set up so that you can scheme, war with, interact with, and generally function as a city derrived from a chess board? Ayes to the left and Nays to the right please. the answer to this question would make or break the entire guild interaction building proccess, seeing as how if you get no responses then nobody cares, if you get a few Ayes and a few Nays then someone cares but an equal majority dont really care. and if you get an overwhelming Nay ... they why bother building at all.. id say we should look at the current roster of accounts. not characters but actual names of players. and say... 60%? should at least voice an opinion as to favor the guild building process and i believe with the current count that puts it around 31 Ayes, because in the end, isnt CoCo about the most favorable conditions for interaction among its participants. and i see alot of posts going on in the tavern ... it seems theres at least 1-1/2 to 2 pages of posts ive missed in my nightly checking up on the website.. and with that kind of post frequency i have no hope of even beingb caught up in the Tavern on recent issues as well as the councel of gladius.... admitedly, it is in theory and apparently practice (the 2nd time aroud), i dont even bother reading it since im missing a page + a day there im sure... at what point does the number of different interaction threads on the CoCo reach critical mass? how many different places does one person need to post before you reach a point where it is actually impossible to keep up with whats going on barring a straight 4-6 hour reading session on the CoCo nightly? i for one am actually FOR the Guild construction process, however, i warn the elders and anyone else willing to pass the torch along. there will come a time when a person logs on to the CoCo for the first time. sees the number of different places that a person who is not questiong or campaigning (which by the way adds a whole LOT of reading and posting depending on how you play your said quests or campaigns) and just simply logs back off in an effort to find a simpler outlet for interaction with others on a DnD platform idea. in the end, just keep it simple people. over complicating needlessly and extensively is a bad thing. :twocents:
Luni 09-23-05, 08:14 PM	this may seem like a really late comment to be throwing into the mix. however. has anyone even formally asked ... "Who would like a complex set of rules set up so that you can scheme, war with, interact with, and generally function as a city derrived from a chess board? Ayes to the left and Nays to the right please. the answer to this question would make or break the entire guild interaction building proccess, seeing as how if you get no responses then nobody cares, if you get a few Ayes and a few Nays then someone cares but an equal majority dont really care. and if you get an overwhelming Nay ... they why bother building at all.. id say we should look at the current roster of accounts. not characters but actual names of players. and say... 60%? should at least voice an opinion as to favor the guild building process, because in the end, isnt CoCo about the most favorable conditions for interaction among its participants. and i see alot of posts going on in the tavern ... it seems theres at least 1-1/2 to 2 pages of posts ive missed in my nightly checking up on the website.. and with that kind of post frequency i have no hope of even beingb caught up in the Tavern on recent issues as well as the councel of gladius.... admitedly, it is in theory and apparently practice (the 2nd time aroud), i dont even bother reading it since im missing a page + a day there im sure... at what point does the number of different interaction threads on the CoCo reach critical mass? how many different places does one person need to post before you reach a point where it is actually impossible to keep up with whats going on barring a straight 4-6 hour reading session on the CoCo nightly? i for one am actually FOR the Guild construction process, however, i warn the elders and anyone else willing to pass the torch along. there will come a time when a person logs on to the CoCo for the first time. sees the number of different places that a person who is not questiong or campaigning (which by the way adds a whole LOT of reading and posting depending on how you play your said quests or campaigns) and just simply logs back off in an effort to find a simpler outlet for interaction with others on a DnD platform idea. in the end, just keep it simple people. over complicating needlessly and extensively is a bad thing. :twocents: Well said! Though to be honest, most of the questions will be answered in the Rules of Gladius thread. I believe that is why we are trying to make guilds, involved in the Role-play of Gladius, the stories of Gladius, without making it too much for someone knew. I 99.9% the guild system, that Caterane and co. are working on. I haven't said much yet, but I will speak up if they head into territory I don't want to see.
Mind Rogue 09-23-05, 08:22 PM	I vote nay. I was thinking that perhaps in the future I might join one, possibly Luni's nature guild once Zahrat gets done campaigning, but if I have to even think about all of this crazy stuff, why bother? When in doubt, KISS (Keep it Simple, Stupid). A quest or miniquest to join a guild (run by the guildmaster or someone she appoints), and aside from that, it should be mostly roleplaying. If things escalate to conflict they can have a multiperson duel in some special arena or extra challenges, but we don't need to manage guild income or how many buildings they control.
nightbanegod 09-23-05, 08:26 PM	Well said! Though to be honest, most of the questions will be answered in the Rules of Gladius thread. I believe that is why we are trying to make guilds, involved in the Role-play of Gladius, the stories of Gladius, without making it too much for someone knew. I 99.9% the guild system, that Caterane and co. are working on. I haven't said much yet, but I will speak up if they head into territory I don't want to see. whew, thought i was going to step on some toes with that one... ohh and i did some research... if your not on this list of active players then im sorry and that only further proves my point that there are more people than just a handfull of people who's opinions, whether stated or held, matter considering its THESE people that make CoCo what it is... and not the rules pusted under the rules thread. altaris13 aramil dunskar begferdeth beldin Caterane cerebus13 Delusional illusion Dr funk Ellorion Saenelle Emrys Donovan Enterik faroth Gonbow huan Iced Kaigan kerlanrayne King uther laughing dragon LLmadcow longarcher luni - AYE madner malither76 maraxus maverick knight meek head michael noah mind rogue - Nay nightbanegod - Nay or Aye. im still deciding about how complicated is too complicated. niquil - Nay oldmangray pauper pittbull ravashack ribking saurogrenom shaken, not stunned Sindorin sloisel snommelp Sodaguy soullord sunwolf TellinArtho Tellish of ket themagister usurpator vathelokai waywreth xanadu zerone with this list we would need at least a 31-32 Aye vote to have a 60% aproval rating. and i think thats more than a fiar % in regards to something as expansive as the Guild project. pleace sonsider this ELDERS... perhaps you could copy my list and simply repost the list and who's voted one way or the other. and when you can strike off 30+ names. see where the chips lay?
NiQil 09-23-05, 08:26 PM	I vote nay. I was thinking that perhaps in the future I might join one, possibly Luni's nature guild once Zahrat gets done campaigning, but if I have to even think about all of this crazy stuff, why bother? When in doubt, KISS (Keep it Simple, Stupid). A quest or miniquest to join a guild (run by the guildmaster or someone she appoints), and aside from that, it should be mostly roleplaying. If things escalate to conflict they can have a multiperson duel in some special arena or extra challenges, but we don't need to manage guild income or how many buildings they control. What Rogue said....wait...let me do it for the cheap seats in true LLMC style....WHAT ROGUE SAID
nightbanegod 09-23-05, 08:31 PM	ok with a few quick edits ive got your respective voices listed on my list. and currently the tally is AYE has 1 Nay has 2 Undecided has 1 raises a guilty hand this is not a good start twards the 31-32 60% that is being asked...
xanadu 09-23-05, 09:43 PM	I think guilds have the potential to add a lot. I really dont mind having districts as part of the city as it brings the city to life. What I'd rather not have in to have guilds turn into a real time strategy game too complicated for the casual poster to understand - this is a great danger I think. The casual poster should not feel intimidated to participate in the guilds. I'd rather not rest on the laurels of "well technically they dont need to be involved in the planning or organization," because if they dont at least get the gist I dont think they'll participate. We can still have districts, buildings, and themes, but let's use these to enhance the role-play element and give gladiators token benefits rather than make this a real time strategy game that only a few will participate in. In sum, I want the ETHC to build a mafia in the sleezy section of Gladius and maybe provide a pretext to offer a formal challenge to the security guild. Maybe give the ETHC some discounts on the blackmarket and a victory banner to hang in our hall after a victory in the arena. This is a "aye" vote but also one of caution.
nightbanegod 09-23-05, 10:06 PM	click an Aye or Nay to see respective post altaris13 aramil dunskar begferdeth beldin Caterane cerebus13 Delusional illusion Dr funk Ellorion Saenelle Emrys Donovan Enterik faroth Gonbow huan Iced Kaigan kerlanrayne King uther laughing dragon LLmadcow longarcher luni - Aye (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7333437&postcount=3366) madner malither76 maraxus maverick knight meek head michael noah mind rogue - Nay (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7333509&postcount=3367) nightbanegod - Nay or Aye. im still deciding about how complicated is too complicated. niquil - Nay (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7333537&postcount=3369) oldmangray pauper pittbull ravashack ribking saurogrenom shaken, not stunned Sindorin sloisel snommelp Sodaguy soullord sunwolf TellinArtho Tellish of ket themagister usurpator vathelokai waywreth xanadu - Aye with caution (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7334100&postcount=3371) zerone
Snommelp 09-23-05, 10:19 PM	Put me down as a "Meh." I like the theory, to the point where I wanted to be a guild leader, but shortly after I said that I felt like I was drowning in a sea of new and complicated rules. Wait... that sounds more like a "nay"... really, I like the idea, mostly, I just can't see myself running a guild. Far too complex and time consuming.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-23-05, 10:54 PM	Speaking of which. As the Guildlord, i will have more than a full plate. Any takers on running GSIS? -ToK
Begferdeth 09-23-05, 11:13 PM	Im gonna vote Nay on this Guild thing for now... The whole place is built on Core rules, and giving players a bonus (even a little one) for being in a guild is starting to take it out of the rules. Plus, it makes it so that everybody has to start building characters to fit into guilds, just so they can get the extra points (every little bit helps!) But, if its just for roleplay, or the bonuses only apply to guild-sanctioned battles/events/whatever, then go for it! Extra roleplay never hurts. Heck, I know I could use some extra roleplay... I just cant work up the creativity for it :P
Ravashack 09-24-05, 01:36 AM	I think if we have guilds in the CoCo, that they should not have any DIRECT in-game benefit at all. At best, guilds could be used to relax the houseruled restrictions by giving people 1 credit/week, to represent the connections that you create while in a guild, to a max limit of say, 10 credits at a time. That is, someone under 10 credits could still get one a week, but someone at or above that has no time to make and keep more connections/contacts/favors/etc. Any benefits from the guild should not be able to directly influence the CoCo, or it will become a direct part of the min-max equation. So I have a no vote right there for the most part.
Vathelokai 09-24-05, 02:34 AM	So far, the only DIRECT in game benefit from the guilds is that guild members get to share masterwork tools (this is what half the rooms really do). I know it happens, but I think it rediculous for a min/maxer to join a guild over 50 gp. And even if said min/maxer did such, what is the detriment? +2 to a craft skill in exchange for more RP on the board. I'm OK with that. All the other ideas have been tabled for now. The guild token thing has been put to the side until we can come up with a benefit that does not affect arena play. (unless I missed something in the council). I think in the end, the quality of the guilds will be dependent on how much time the guildlord can put into it. Considering the crowd in these parts, if the strategy game starts to over run the RP/Quest basis for the guilds, then the guilds will fall appart. This much is obvious. I caution everyone to also consider Saurogenom's statements: these rules are being developed so that squables don't break out later. It seems like a huge undertaking at the moment, but once things get started, it will be as smooth as the arena fights are now. If we were to open guilds with no basis, everytime there was a challenge, or a raid, or politicing, there would be a new debate about ajudication. We would end up with a convoluted mish/mash of rules and what we have seen in the council would be spread out over many months. So that my possition is clear, yea for guilds.
Vathelokai 09-24-05, 02:42 AM	Im gonna vote Nay on this Guild thing for now... The whole place is built on Core rules, and giving players a bonus (even a little one) for being in a guild is starting to take it out of the rules. Plus, it makes it so that everybody has to start building characters to fit into guilds, just so they can get the extra points (every little bit helps!) But, if its just for roleplay, or the bonuses only apply to guild-sanctioned battles/events/whatever, then go for it! Extra roleplay never hurts. Heck, I know I could use some extra roleplay... I just cant work up the creativity for it :P Due to the tavern debate of page 105-107, started by Usupator, entry requirements were removed. That provoked action in the council to change the tokens. So now guilds might be usefull as MW tools. I don't think that's any mored damaging then letting charaters have professions to make a couple extra bucks a week. As Usurpator pointed out, guilds were functioning like prestige classes, and giving bonuses as such. That has been changed. All other guild bonuses so far are for inter-guild conflict and world building. Does this mean you are on the yea side now?
Vathelokai 09-24-05, 03:11 AM	What Rogue said....wait...let me do it for the cheap seats in true LLMC style....WHAT ROGUE SAID Didn't you just apply to TAO? :P But seriously, the construction aspect could be complicated, yes, but the guildmaster does all of it. If run correctly, someone in the guild is questing every week to perpetuate a story of the guild. Every now and then in RP someone says "hey, we just got three new members. Maybe we should build rooms for them." So to respond to MindRogue and Niqil, unless something is awry, it will be all questing and RP. MORE JUSTIFICATION: The real reason, I think, that Cat is going so far with this is that there were guilds before. They were very simple - RP only. Sometimes they were the basis of quests and campaigns. Do you see any of them around? One day Uther got an idea and started a new guild. SoulLord and myself had some fun in the Arcane thread. I'm putting words in Cat's mouth again, but ignore that....Intrest in a RP only guild fluxuates, based entirely on wether there is someone there to create action. All stories must have some kind of conflict or interaction or event that gives the characters something to RP about. Without that, the perpetual story structure of a guild falls appart as soon as the most interesting member leaves. What the 'guild rules' are all about is creating an evolving framework that sparks RP. Basicly, it's setting creation. Since Cat is a rules lawyer at heart, that is the relm he is focusing on. He's leaving it up to the questlords/pitlords/guilmasters to flesh things out and make the world very real. And if you think about it, putting the rules up then developing the world is a proven strategy. Which came first, Eberon or D20? (yes I know it's more complicated then that, but it's just a metaphor) As for Nighbanegod's 'gladius as chessboard' remark; It looks like a chess board to us, but the characters should not see it that way. It's the same as a character 'seeing' the HD of monsters or the + on their sword. It's a mechanic. Since you're having a poll, could you phrase the question so that it is not so obvious which answer you scorn? Not trying to get personal or anything, but loaded questions are one of my pet peeves.
King Uther 09-24-05, 03:14 AM	Okay, now I have to say something. I am going to be fleshing out my guild more soon, and I want to see this idea blossom into an awesome ROLEPLAY addition. So I vote yes, but I reserve to vote otherwise if we start heading towards unbalancing play. You should want to join a guild because of its flavor, as well as for pride. Make your guild the best one! Anyways, don't be so hasty to say no. Let's see how this trial works first.
NiQil 09-24-05, 03:22 AM	Didn't you just apply to TAO? :P But seriously, the construction aspect could be complicated, yes, but the guildmaster does all of it. If run correctly, someone in the guild is questing every week to perpetuate a story of the guild. Every now and then in RP someone says "hey, we just got three new members. Maybe we should build rooms for them." So to respond to MindRogue and Niqil, unless something is awry, it will be all questing and RP. MORE JUSTIFICATION: The real reason, I think, that Cat is going so far with this is that there were guilds before. They were very simple - RP only. Sometimes they were the basis of quests and campaigns. Do you see any of them around? One day Uther got an idea and started a new guild. SoulLord and myself had some fun in the Arcane thread. I'm putting words in Cat's mouth again, but ignore that....Intrest in a RP only guild fluxuates, based entirely on wether there is someone there to create action. All stories must have some kind of conflict or interaction or event that gives the characters something to RP about. Without that, the perpetual story structure of a guild falls appart as soon as the most interesting member leaves. What the 'guild rules' are all about is creating an evolving framework that sparks RP. Basicly, it's setting creation. Since Cat is a rules lawyer at heart, that is the relm he is focusing on. He's leaving it up to the questlords/pitlords/guilmasters to flesh things out and make the world very real. And if you think about it, putting the rules up then developing the world is a proven strategy. Which came first, Eberon or D20? (yes I know it's more complicated then that, but it's just a metaphor) As for Nighbanegod's 'gladius as chessboard' remark; It looks like a chess board to us, but the characters should not see it that way. It's the same as a character 'seeing' the HD of monsters or the + on their sword. It's a mechanic. Since you're having a poll, could you phrase the question so that it is not so obvious which answer you scorn? Not trying to get personal or anything, but loaded questions are one of my pet peeves. As an aside...check your PM's. I backed off...in part because of the lack of requirements yet, and also in part because I am still having a really difficult time getting behind the whole guild thing for anything more than a little RP, a little trash-talking, and a little quest/miniquest setup. I've tried...I've helped with ideas for the guilds when I had them. I just can't get behind it in its current form. I think my first post that started this discussion said it best....it feels too much like Risk, Gladius style. I really, really like the idea of guilds.....but not as they stand. I've tried to wrap my brain around it in such a way as to justify it to myself that it is a good thing....and haven't been able to. Heck...since the sector map rolled out, we've lost two guildmasters....one for much the same reasons as I am outlaying, and the other because the load this would cause combined with the load of work he already has as Guildlord would be too much. I think that should should say something to us...sort of a say-when type thing. Well, let me be the first (again, in LLMC style)...WHEN!
Ravashack 09-24-05, 03:29 AM	So far, the only DIRECT in game benefit from the guilds is that guild members get to share masterwork tools (this is what half the rooms really do). I know it happens, but I think it rediculous for a min/maxer to join a guild over 50 gp. And even if said min/maxer did such, what is the detriment? +2 to a craft skill in exchange for more RP on the board. I'm OK with that. All the other ideas have been tabled for now. The guild token thing has been put to the side until we can come up with a benefit that does not affect arena play. (unless I missed something in the council). I was unaware of the tabling, as my decision was based on the PRCish look of the guilds that would be offered by joining, which I am against. I would not consider a +2 to a Craft skill to be a direct in game benefit. It has no effect on your arena fights, nor would it do anything by itself during a quest or campaign. The person running such would have to customize specifically for the skill in order for it to be of significance. Now, a +2 to Jump, a +2 to Diplomacy, +2 to Bluff...something like that starts a ball rolling in the wrong direction IMO.
Vathelokai 09-24-05, 03:38 AM	As an aside...check your PM's. I backed off... Just checked...I guess I didn't get it :confused:
Usurpator 09-24-05, 03:52 AM	But seriously, the construction aspect could be complicated, yes, but the guildmaster does all of it. This is my currently my biggest problem. The system now under development is essentially a strategy game between the Guildlords. We have to put the characters back into the guilds. I feared of losing the characters before because of the high entry requirements, now I fear of losing the characters because the current rules have nothing to offer them in terms of what they can do. I am busy writing a piece that adresses this (and other) issues, I hope to have it up later today.
Pittbull 09-24-05, 02:29 PM	What happens if you spent so many XP in item-creation or spells, that your total XP is less than the required XP for your current level? DO you loses a level?
Cerebus13 09-24-05, 02:36 PM	Can a druid take Multiattack as a feat once they get high enough to be able to Wildshape?
SauroGrenom 09-24-05, 02:39 PM	What happens if you spent so many XP in item-creation or spells, that your total XP is less than the required XP for your current level? DO you loses a level? You are not allowed to spend enough XP in item creation to drop you a level. You simply cannot make the item.
Pittbull 09-24-05, 02:40 PM	Can a druid take Multiattack as a feat once they get high enough to be able to Wildshape? I believe, they can't.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-24-05, 02:47 PM	What happens if you spent so many XP in item-creation or spells, that your total XP is less than the required XP for your current level? DO you loses a level? You cannot craft so much that you lose a level. If crafting something would cause you to lose a level, you simply cannot craft it. -ToK
SauroGrenom 09-24-05, 03:21 PM	For clarity and to dispell any confusion about the guild system as it currently stands; The Guild System is nearly totally independant from the Arena System. In fact, I can not think of any way in which there is any bonus of any kind that is given to Guild Members that will carry over into combat, buying spells for a spellbook, buying services, buying items or making money. As it currently stands, the role of the Guilds as it pertains to characters is to give them a forum for roleplay between guild members and to provide the potential for miniquests that would be required for particular guild activites (such as burglarizing another guilds base). Now as a forum for that interaction, it is rife with the potential to degenerate into a pointless disagreement between players. Rules must be made to prevent this and preserve the guild system. Of example, it was expressed in the Council that if Guild A wants to burglarize the Guild Hall of Guild B, then how is such a interaction mediated. Rules are being built to allow this kind of interaction to happen. We are currently discussing how Guild B can prepare for this possibility (hire nightwatchmen, but bars on the windows or whatever), and what sneakly tactics Guild A can employ to improve their chances of success. The rules as they stand so far govern how a guild makes money, what they can spend their money on (no interaction with the Arena) and how they wield their influince in a part of the city. The Council is still working on rules that allow guilds to war with one another, ally with one another, and any of the various sneaky things a guild could do to try and combat the influince of a rival guild. If you all have ideas about a particular thing that you may want to do with a guild member at some time in the future (quests, battles, take another to court or whatever), post your idea in the Council thread, and we will work on setting up rules to govern that activity. Without rules all the roleplay is like a bunch of kids sitting around trying to tell a cooperative story, and we all know what happens when a disagreement arises in a situation like that (the story degenerates into a argument and is effectively over). Most of the rules will not be used in most of the interactions, but they still need to be there to prevent problems in the future. This is like the BullRush rules, seldom used, but certianly necessary in those few instances that they are called for. I vote Yay for the Guilds, and I encourage all those who may have not recently reviewed the Council thread to look at the last two pages of the thread. Specifically this post (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7320681&postcount=631), and this map (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7331177&postcount=651) are mostly decided. The current questions on Cat's mind are in this post (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7336965&postcount=660). All the Current ideas are there in their brainstormed and sloppy forms as well as some a bit more polished. If an idea was up earlier but is not in those last two pages, then it has been dropped. Most of what's up now governs how guilds make and spend money, and spread influince over the city. We are just now working out how they will interact with the other guilds. This is a critical point where the input of as many voices as possable is needed. If you can envision your guild member doing a service to your guild, then post a description in the Council. Such as "I would like to be able to quest for the TOA and gather rare spell components from the gizard of a dragon." We will try to make sure that it is possable to try what you are asking for. BTW: I think Ravenshack's Idea about credits is excellent, but others may dissagree. I encourage you to post it in the Council Thread. I can elaborate if necessary, but only upon request.
SauroGrenom 09-24-05, 03:38 PM	This is my currently my biggest problem. The system now under development is essentially a strategy game between the Guildlords. We have to put the characters back into the guilds. I feared of losing the characters before because of the high entry requirements, now I fear of losing the characters because the current rules have nothing to offer them in terms of what they can do. I am busy writing a piece that adresses this (and other) issues, I hope to have it up later today. I agree that players need to be a major part of the guild system, and as it currently stands, the rules that have been developed do not have much room for player activity, BUT the player contribution is now the current topic of discussion and if you have ideas about how to make that happen I encourage you to post it in the Council Thread. The current rules only govern how the guilds make and spend money, expand over the city and build things. Those decisions are made by the guildmaster I suppose, though each guild can decide for itself how to govern spending its money. The next phase is to describe guild interactions, and that is where most of the characters will play a role. If you want something specific to be possable, post a suggestion in the Council Thread.
Book5 09-24-05, 03:45 PM	http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/Gladius-River.jpg This is the Tavern of the Core Coliseum. Here, all gladiators meet to chat, drink, and sometimes even brawl. You can ask questions, talk to others, or write whatever you want as long as it does not violate the Code of Conduct (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=community/coc). You can't really go wrong here. [/quote] Ahhh, so it doesnt matter that I didnt read anything past this point? Hi, Book5, B, 5, or book will do. Whats the latest brawl? and whos winning? Can I help? I have :twocents: and I know how to use em! !..! those are rock fingers
Book5 09-24-05, 03:50 PM	The current rules only govern how the guilds make and spend money, expand over the city and build things. Those decisions are made by the guildmaster I suppose, though each guild can decide for itself how to govern spending its money. The next phase is to describe guild interactions, and that is where most of the characters will play a role. So to clarify, I as a player in a guild game I cannot buy a building? Assuming my little guy gets the cash - that has to be a guildmaster descision? :D I think I'll go read the rules now, pg114 ... wow. later.
Mind Rogue 09-24-05, 04:13 PM	Wow. Someone who just joined and has no clue what's going on, but is already offering to put in a few copper pennies. Welcome aboard Book5. May the dice have favor upon your sword.
SauroGrenom 09-24-05, 07:17 PM	So to clarify, I as a player in a guild game I cannot buy a building? Assuming my little guy gets the cash - that has to be a guildmaster descision? :D I think I'll go read the rules now, pg114 ... wow. later. In a word, the answer to your question is No. Guild money is seperate from character money, and there is no way at CoCo for characters to buy buildings. It is not covered in the SRD, and it is simply assumed that all characters have a free place to live and eat free food when they are not fighting. BTW: Welcome to CoCo.
nightbanegod 09-24-05, 07:35 PM	hey book, dont be discouraged by the amount of input you may get. just start a character and see what conversations you land yourself into. things get interesting around here pretty quickly and usually on thursdays (gotta love the post pairings chatter!!!)
Maraxus 09-24-05, 08:11 PM	Sorry, I don't know, where I should put this, either in the prison or in the council, so I put is here ;) A crocodile as animal companion That SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/druid.html), as well as the official Wizards SRD (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35) are inconsistent. On the one hand, they say: Animal Companion (Ex): A druid may begin play with an animal companion (...) If the campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the following creatures are also available: crocodile, porpoise, Medium shark, and squid. On the other hand they say: ALTERNATIVE ANIMAL COMPANIONS A druid of sufficiently high level can select her animal companion from one of the following lists, applying the indicated adjustment to the druid’s level (in parentheses) for purposes of determining the companion’s characteristics and special abilities. 4th Level or Higher (Level –3) (...) Crocodile (animal)1 (...) Of cause we can take this as written and interprete that as: You can either take the crocodile like that or you can take the crocodile at level -3, just as you wish. But of cause, this was not intended (and it is a very bad interpretation of that. The better Interpretation is: There is an error). Going by That SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm#theDruidsAnimalCompanion) and the convincing fact, that all the CR2 animals are on the level 4 list, I think that the crocodile belong there and only there. What do you think?
Luni 09-24-05, 08:22 PM	Sorry, I don't know, where I should put this, either in the prison or in the council, so I put is here ;) A crocodile as animal companion That SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/druid.html), as well as the official Wizards SRD (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35) are inconsistent. On the one hand, they say: Animal Companion (Ex): A druid may begin play with an animal companion (...) If the campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the following creatures are also available: crocodile, porpoise, Medium shark, and squid. On the other hand they say: ALTERNATIVE ANIMAL COMPANIONS A druid of sufficiently high level can select her animal companion from one of the following lists, applying the indicated adjustment to the druid’s level (in parentheses) for purposes of determining the companion’s characteristics and special abilities. 4th Level or Higher (Level –3) (...) Crocodile (animal)1 (...) Of cause we can take this as written and interprete that as: You can either take the crocodile like that or you can take the crocodile at level -3, just as you wish. But of cause, this was not intended (and it is a very bad interpretation of that. The better Interpretation is: There is an error). Going by That SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm#theDruidsAnimalCompanion) and the convincing fact, that all the CR2 animals are on the level 4 list, I think that the crocodile belong there and only there. What do you think? I have no idea why they put the crocodile on the list for level 1 druids in an aquatic campaign. Regardless, it is there. There has been no errata or mention in the FAQ about it.
Maraxus 09-24-05, 08:33 PM	I know of an even bigger mistake in the MM, but it is my secret for now. You know, it is evil to say something like that? :rolleyes: Now I have to search through the entire MM to find it, too - Damn, I am to snoopy. ;) ...And to say it and than take it away is not better. :D
Luni 09-24-05, 08:36 PM	You know, it is evil to say something like that? :rolleyes: Now I have to search through the entire MM to find it, too - Damn, I am to snoopy. ;) Well, it is a mistake, but probably not a bigger one. A poor choice of words on my end. Maybe it is intentional that WoTC did this. To let you in: Take a look at the Werewolf Lord under Lycanthropes. Note: The MM errata says that the stat box overrules the descriptive text. -Unlike the werebear its bastard sword increases in size when it goes into Hybrid Form. -It can still use its Gauntlets of Ogre Power in Animal or Hyrbid form. -It has one feat I can't account for..
Maraxus 09-24-05, 09:05 PM	Wow, that's like a ring of 3 wishes. ;)
Book5 09-24-05, 11:17 PM	In a word, the answer to your question is No. Guild money is seperate from character money, and there is no way at CoCo for characters to buy buildings. It is not covered in the SRD, and it is simply assumed that all characters have a free place to live and eat free food when they are not fighting. BTW: Welcome to CoCo. Whata ya mean "its not covered in the srd?" Inn Stay (poor) - 1 sp a day. Im payin for it (along with my attendant - trained hireling) until I figure something else out. Payed for a month with starting cash already (now those last 250 gp are always the hardest to spend). BTW: Get ready for "Tan, son of Sty. Warrior Comedian" Halfling Bard/Fighter. He'll be up before dawn tommarow. "Jokes so bad.. they'll put you to sleep."
Book5 09-24-05, 11:20 PM	Going by That SRD and the convincing fact, that all the CR2 animals are on the level 4 list, I think that the crocodile belong there and only there. :twocents: when in doubt go with consistancy.
Begferdeth 09-25-05, 02:47 AM	Well... now that Ive read a bit more on it, the guilds seem to be coming out to a sort of a free challenge system for fights against rival guilds. Which is totally OK in my book. The masterwork tool thing... Heck, put a 50gp signup fee for a guild, and it all comes out even! Now Ill have to make the Big Guild Of Bugs. Only characters with exoskeletons need apply. :D Due to the tavern debate of page 105-107, started by Usupator, entry requirements were removed. That provoked action in the council to change the tokens. So now guilds might be usefull as MW tools. I don't think that's any mored damaging then letting charaters have professions to make a couple extra bucks a week. As Usurpator pointed out, guilds were functioning like prestige classes, and giving bonuses as such. That has been changed. All other guild bonuses so far are for inter-guild conflict and world building. Does this mean you are on the yea side now?
Vathelokai 09-25-05, 05:56 AM	Whata ya mean "its not covered in the srd?" Inn Stay (poor) - 1 sp a day. Im payin for it (along with my attendant - trained hireling) until I figure something else out. Payed for a month with starting cash already (now those last 250 gp are always the hardest to spend). BTW: Get ready for "Tan, son of Sty. Warrior Comedian" Halfling Bard/Fighter. He'll be up before dawn tommarow. "Jokes so bad.. they'll put you to sleep." You could join a guild: free room and board...which reminds me, there's space for bards in the mage guild (TAO). It seems like NiQil has with drawn his application...I think. If he did, then we need a 5th member. The in character explaination for free room and board for everyone is that all gladiators have a free living quarters in the arena district of town. Basicly, gladiator dorms. If you want something fancier (like a room at an inn) then you have to pay. As far as RP goes, I think 3 gp a month ain't bad to get away from the rowdiest section of town. The 'not covered in SRD' comment was about owning a house, not renting. I'd recommend keeping that money. After your first fight, you'll find a gaping hole in your character that needs to be patched with something.
Vathelokai 09-25-05, 06:34 AM	So to clarify, I as a player in a guild game I cannot buy a building? Assuming my little guy gets the cash - that has to be a guildmaster descision? :D I think I'll go read the rules now, pg114 ... wow. later. The way the rules are shaping up, your character could be part of a team (guild) that buys buildings with virtual money that is based on the money you get from arena fights/quests. It is up to the entire guild what buildings get built.
Usurpator 09-25-05, 07:40 AM	I often see tactics where people desire to cast spells from scrolls while they have a weapon in their hands, while stowing or dropping the weapon to cast the spell from the scroll would be extremely unwise. Casting most spells from a scroll requires two hands free, since most spells cast require somatic components. One hand to draw and hold the scroll, one hand to make the appropriate gestures. If you write: "If hurt below x hit points use a scroll of moderate wounds and then continue with melee", would usually take two rounds (one to stow the weapon, one to draw and cast from the scroll). If you write "If he bases my, I will immediately cast shield from my scroll", would usually mean you drop your weapon in order to cast the spell, possible creating problems in your tactics later on. Additionally, you cannot draw a scroll as a free action during a regular move, it is not a weapon. Both drawing a scroll and reading from a scroll trigger AoO's. Oh, yeah, sheating or stowing a weapon also draws an AoO. Just FYI, I hate to see broken tactics appear again and again because they fail to consider these things.
Altaris13 09-25-05, 10:29 AM	Just to toss my opinion into the mix. I'm all for the Guilds, so 'yay' for me.
Maraxus 09-25-05, 11:50 AM	1. Any other opinion about the crocodile - thing? 2: Question about the Psionics/Magic Transparency rule: The ability of animal companions or familiars sais "share spells" and the psi-crystal sais "share poweres". Does this only mean powers/spells, or does a Caster/Manifester share his powers with his familiar and spells with his crystal, too.
Vathelokai 09-25-05, 11:53 AM	1. - I'd say allow the croc. It's allowed in the rules, even though it's silly. 2. - If I understand the psionic/magic transparency rules correctly, powers and spells would transfer onto a companion. You thinking of making a druid/psion/sorcerer? Lots of helpers with no negatives to xp income. :cool:
Maraxus 09-25-05, 12:12 PM	1. - I'd say allow the croc. It's allowed in the rules, even though it's silly. 2. - If I understand the psionic/magic transparency rules correctly, powers and spells would transfer onto a companion. You thinking of making a druid/psion/sorcerer? Lots of helpers with no negatives to xp income. :cool: 1. Well if it would just be silly, (=only clue is that the CR is to high), I had not asked. But together with the fact, that it is another rule, that you have to be 4th level to take a crocodile and suffer -3 to your level concerning it's abilities, I say that this is no silliness but an error in the rules. 2. About that. :) 3 mental attributes are to much, so it will either be druid/wilder/sorcerer, druid/psiwarrior/sorcerer or druid/psion/wizard. :) And althrough d/w/s sounds like a cool concept, I'm not sure if that works from the skill points, I need concentration, a bit of spell- and psicraft and maxed out handle animal. ;)
Luni 09-25-05, 12:23 PM	1. Well if it would just be silly, (=only clue is that the CR is to high), I had not asked. But together with the fact, that it is another rule, that you have to be 4th level to take a crocodile and suffer -3 to your level concerning it's abilities, I say that this is no silliness but an error in the rules. 2. About that. :) 3 mental attributes are to much, so it will either be druid/wilder/sorcerer, druid/psiwarrior/sorcerer or druid/psion/wizard. :) And althrough d/w/s sounds like a cool concept, I'm not sure if that works from the skill points, I need concentration, a bit of spell- and psicraft and maxed out handle animal. ;) Go with this one: druid/wilder/sorcerer The +cha for one of them will make up for the smaller Handle Animal. You only need Psicraft. Read Magic will cover the divine/arcane scrolls, while Psicraft covers all the PSicraft things you need. Concentration for your 3rd skill.
xanadu 09-25-05, 12:30 PM	I often see tactics where people desire to cast spells from scrolls while they have a weapon in their hands, while stowing or dropping the weapon to cast the spell from the scroll would be extremely unwise. Casting most spells from a scroll requires two hands free, since most spells cast require somatic components. One hand to draw and hold the scroll, one hand to make the appropriate gestures. If you write: "If hurt below x hit points use a scroll of moderate wounds and then continue with melee", would usually take two rounds (one to stow the weapon, one to draw and cast from the scroll). If you write "If he bases my, I will immediately cast shield from my scroll", would usually mean you drop your weapon in order to cast the spell, possible creating problems in your tactics later on. Additionally, you cannot draw a scroll as a free action during a regular move, it is not a weapon. Both drawing a scroll and reading from a scroll trigger AoO's. Oh, yeah, sheating or stowing a weapon also draws an AoO. Just FYI, I hate to see broken tactics appear again and again because they fail to consider these things. How do casters use a weapon then?
Luni 09-25-05, 12:31 PM	How do casters use a weapon then? They don't.
Usurpator 09-25-05, 12:40 PM	How do casters use a weapon then? If you cast spells normally (without a scroll), it is not a problem, since it is easy to free up a hand. You can even use a weapon and a light shield and have no problems, since you can transfer your weapon temporarily to your shield hand to cast with the other. If using scrolls to cast.... then it is going to be a hassle.
xanadu 09-25-05, 01:03 PM	They don't. Hmm, that is going to come as a big surprise to the masses of bow using bards, lance wielding paladins, and clerics equipped with mace and shield :blink:
Snommelp 09-25-05, 01:13 PM	Hmm, that is going to come as a big surprise to the masses of bow using bards, lance wielding paladins, and clerics equipped with mace and shield :blink: Bard spells have very simple somatic components; simple enough that they can wear light armor with no penalty. However, the paladins and clerics are in error. In the PHB, page 174: A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component. So the mace and shield cleric is in error, but the lance-wielding paladin is alright, provided he is mounted and has no shield. EDIT: Also, note that it is a free action to remove or replace a hand on a two-handed weapon.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-25-05, 02:26 PM	Bard spells have very simple somatic components; simple enough that they can wear light armor with no penalty. However, the paladins and clerics are in error. In the PHB, page 174: So the mace and shield cleric is in error, but the lance-wielding paladin is alright, provided he is mounted and has no shield. EDIT: Also, note that it is a free action to remove or replace a hand on a two-handed weapon. As long as it's a light shield or buckler, there is no problem for the cleric either. Hence the term, "Sword and Board" given to clerics who chose that form of fighting. They still have to be careful of the spells they chose though. Most take eschew materials to compliment that style, so they don't have to reach in a component pouch...otherwise, duh, they couldn't do it. -ToK
Caterane 09-25-05, 06:16 PM	From what I read, most doubts either come from wrong information, or lack of understanding of what we're trying to do. Please read this post as it sets some things straight. Guilds are roleplaying threads. If you don't want to have anything to do with the rules system behind it, please just ignore it and roleplay your character. No one is forced to read even a single rule! The main part of any guild will be its characters; the guildmaster is only the administrator account that updates some posts once in a while. Secondly, guilds will not give any benefit at all to a character (not even +2 craft). The requirements will be made easier so that a much broader range can join a guild. Bascially, as long as your character fits the theme, he will be able to join. Then I want to remind you that my prime directive is and has always been to keep things as simple as possible while getting the most fun out of it. The best thing about the Living Guild system is that it will be very simple. It may seem overwhelming and there will be written a lot but the rules themselves will be very easy to understand, and the whole system will be easy to run. I promise you that you will fully understand it by reading once over the FAQ: Guilds. What I posted in the Council - the buildings, the rooms, the wages, etc - are things no one needs to memorize just like no one needs to memorize the list of available weapons or mundane items in the PHB. The actual rules section will be short and easy to understand. But rules are necessary. No one complains about the uncounted rules of the d20 system; infact, most would prefer a much tighter rules web to prevent holes in the system which in turn cause all those arguments. The Guild system will be very clear so that there is no interpretation possible, and with it no fun-stealing arguments. That said, I want to ask you to give me the chance to finish it, THEN judge the system. It is unfair to make a poll in the middle of its creation when we're still tossing ideas around. I think we've found an excellent system that allows for different levels of participation while the main purpose of guilds - enhancing roleplay and bringing this board more to life than any addition before - is fully preserved and independent of your level of participation.
Cerebus13 09-25-05, 08:22 PM	I've run into a situation with a fighter who has a couple of illegal items. He has a Psionic Tattoo of Dissolving Touch and Call Weaponry. Dissolving Touch won't work because you are always the target of the power on your Tattoo, so that would be a bad idea to use... Call Weaponry was not specified as to which weapon it would be used to call, and all Tattoos must specify all choices when they are created (and his tattoo did not specify). So my question is...how do I handle this? 1) Dissolving Touch. His character has a level in Psychic Warrior and thus can use Power Stones...should I allow him to purchase one of these to replace the Tattoo? Or should he not be allowed to get one at all? 2) Call Weaponry. Same situation...could try to purchase a stone instead. However, I could also simply allow him to specify which weapon he wants to use with it as well. In any event...I don't want to run the fight until I get some non-biased opinions on how I should handle the equipment snafu here.
nightbanegod 09-25-05, 08:45 PM	id say on call weaponry that when the tattoo is made, it has to be aimed at a specific type of weapon therefore allow him to specify however on the dissolving touch. isnt that for unarmed touch attacks? and therefore he would be targeting himself with the charge. to be delivered to someone else via a touch attack? on another note.. was the tattoo of vigor ever figured out as being illegal for its augmented nature? or can we get a ML vigor = ECL+2?
Gonbow 09-25-05, 09:18 PM	id say on call weaponry that when the tattoo is made, it has to be aimed at a specific type of weapon therefore allow him to specify however on the dissolving touch. isnt that for unarmed touch attacks? and therefore he would be targeting himself with the charge. to be delivered to someone else via a touch attack? on another note.. was the tattoo of vigor ever figured out as being illegal for its augmented nature? or can we get a ML vigor = ECL+2? The LG faq clearly states that Tattoos and potions = Minimum ML. Why is there even a question about this? Moreover, it has been stated by Cat that you cant get the extend psionic metamagic feat of them either (The one that only requires the expenditure of psionic focus). As far as Dissolving Touch; It's a gray area, I've asked about it before but didn't get a response (which is why I didn't get a tattoo of it). Call Weaponry is more clear-cut; You cant creature a tattoo of something that doesn't target a creature, thus, no Call Weaponry for you.
nightbanegod 09-25-05, 10:34 PM	ehh tattoos are not my specialty ... but on another note... PEOPLE SHOULD LOOK AT THE AMAZING DANCING DROW RIGHT HERE FOR YOUR VIEWING PLEASURE (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7315487#post7315487) by my count i think he has dodged 19 attacks from some hefty sized dudes and not been hit once since the beginning of the fight. but i hope im not jinxing it by pointing it out
Mind Rogue 09-25-05, 10:43 PM	I'm pretty sure I've already voiced my biased opinion about this: it's in my tactics. However, now that I think about it, there are a number of half-giants out there with illegal augmented tattoos of expansion. Like the one monk in that fight that I ran this week...
TelinArtho 09-25-05, 10:50 PM	ehh tattoos are not my specialty ... but on another note... PEOPLE SHOULD LOOK AT THE AMAZING DANCING DROW RIGHT HERE FOR YOUR VIEWING PLEASURE (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7315487#post7315487) by my count i think he has dodged 19 attacks from some hefty sized dudes and not been hit once since the beginning of the fight. but i hope im not jinxing it by pointing it out You and I both know that it won't last forever though - and worse for Crovax yet is the fact that he'll be effectively surrounded unless he takes some immediate actions to rectify the situation...
xanadu 09-25-05, 11:46 PM	1) Dissolving Touch. His character has a level in Psychic Warrior and thus can use Power Stones...should I allow him to purchase one of these to replace the Tattoo? Or should he not be allowed to get one at all? Yes, I'd would replace the tattoo with the stone. 2) Call Weaponry. Same situation...could try to purchase a stone instead. However, I could also simply allow him to specify which weapon he wants to use with it as well. In any event...I don't want to run the fight until I get some non-biased opinions on how I should handle the equipment snafu here. Have him call his default weapon.
NiQil 09-25-05, 11:53 PM	Yes, I'd would replace the tattoo with the stone. Have him call his default weapon. I would tend to agree with this...and note it so that he can change his expenditures. However, I would only do this if the character in question has at least one rank in psicraft, since that is what it would take for this character to use powerstones (and since psicraft is not a class skill for psy warriors, this may be iffy). If the character does not have the necessary rank to use those powers as stones instead of tattoos, then at that point I would, unfortunately for the player, disallow those items and not use them in the fight. If these were to be used in the player's tactics, I would give him/her the chance to adjust their tactics.
Emrys Donovan 09-26-05, 04:39 AM	Hey, does anyone know where I can find a list of the deities (and their descriptions and such) that can be used in the Coliseum? Edit: Nevermind. Question answered by Luni. Thanks again.
TelinArtho 09-26-05, 11:37 AM	@Xanadu regarding your opinion about the handle animal skill: Not only does this skill have absolutely nothing to do with finding, capturing, and acquiring beasts, it seriously strains the skill balance in comparison to other feats. No other skill allows a gladiator to save/pocket/acquire 2000-3000 GPs! Not even close. First of all, to refute your point about it saving a gladiator 2k+gp, there's plenty of options here. Craft-weaponsmithing - craft a adamantine greatsword, how much have you saved? If you want to say that this has been modified from the core rules as well, you'll notice that it should be 1/3rd for the raw materials, but in the CoCo - it was reduced to 1/2. An adamantine greatsword is 3050, so crafting one saves you 1525gp. How about Craft-Armorsmithing. Craft a suit of adamantine full plate, you save 8250gp! Both of these can be done with 6 ranks, +2 int, and +2 [Ma] Tools. As to whether or not the skill was "designed" to be used to quest for creatures - this is a custom rule for the CoCo. It is there to help maintain balance but also allow people to get creatures that are a little out of the box. From my point of view, I think the handle animal and diplomacy customs help the CoCo. I realize you disagree, but if you want to effect change, propose a reasonable solution.
SauroGrenom 09-26-05, 12:04 PM	Last night I was updating the character sheet for Rebreg, and I noticed that ontop of his continious losses he is hemoraging money. He may be the only gladiator who has been in 4 fights and succeeded in having less money at that point that when he was created. I'm learning as I go along here, but what is it about this build that is so unworkable? Every fight ends poorly for the Half-Giant monk, and now there is discussion that the augmented Expansion tattoo's that he uses are illegal. Perhaps grapple builds are inherently weaker than melee or spellcasting builds. The basic idea was to see if a monk build can be successfull in the Arena, so I decided to focus on a grapple build because that is one of the early strengths of the monk class. It's starting to look like monks are not a workable class in Arena combat.
NiQil 09-26-05, 12:10 PM	Last night I was updating the character sheet for Rebreg, and I noticed that ontop of his continious losses he is hemoraging money. He may be the only gladiator who has been in 4 fights and succeeded in having less money at that point that when he was created. I'm learning as I go along here, but what is it about this build that is so unworkable? Every fight ends poorly for the Half-Giant monk, and now there is discussion that the augmented Expansion tattoo's that he uses are illegal. Perhaps grapple builds are inherently weaker than melee or spellcasting builds. The basic idea was to see if a monk build can be successfull in the Arena, so I decided to focus on a grapple build because that is one of the early strengths of the monk class. It's starting to look like monks are not a workable class in Arena combat. On the contrary...monks seem to fair well here, as long as you know how to run them. They are supremely suited for a self-sufficient environment like an arena. This may be just my personal bias coming through, but part of your problem may be that level adjustment you took to be a half giant. Level adjustments tend to make a character weaker in the long run. Look at what you sacrificed to get that race. A level of saves, skill points, hit die, BAB, the speed bump monks get at third level....and that's just off the top of my head. Let me take a look at your character in a bit and I will see if I can give you some pointers on what could use some shoring up.
TelinArtho 09-26-05, 12:16 PM	Monks do just fine - but you have to be aware of the expense you are accruing while you fight. At ECL3, whether or not the augmented tattoo is legal without credits (and its not), it would still cost 300gp. If you lose your fight - you are breaking even when using this item. Even if you win, you're cutting your winnings by 1/3rd. And this is if you use nothing else during the fight. The way around this is to build a solid 3rd level character. A 2nd level half-giant monk could easily have a +10 grapple modifier (+4 sz, +1 BAB, +1 str, +4 impr. grapple) - and that is formidable enough against most characters who are not enlarged or who do not have improved grapple. So for ECL3, you probably don't even need to be enlarged. Now you need to spend some time making sure you have the ability to grapple. Your speed would be only 30ft as a 2nd level monk. Pick up a skate tattoo (+15ft) to help this out. Your touch AC will generally be good enough, but your regular AC might need some help. Potion of Mage Armor will help this. Essentially, just try to address things as they come to your mind, but if you are planning tactics and before you are even done buffing, you find yourself in excess of the winnings you would get for losing - tread carefully. I'm not saying you shouldn't - but it may be more devastating to lose than it is a benefit of winning. /d
NiQil 09-26-05, 12:28 PM	After looking Rebreg over...a couple of things jumped out at me. Granted, these are my opinions...so take them for what they are worth (not much, generally LOL) First...for a monk, your AC is extremely low. In my experience, monks usually have some of the highest AC's in the game. To remedy this, I would recommend tattoos of inertial armor (100 gp apiece) and tattoos of force screen (100 gp apiece). If you use one of those each battle, that is a +8 to your AC for 200 gp a fight. The other big thing that jumped out at me is your approach to your fights thus far. Lots of sneaking and hiding and trying to not be hit. While tactics vary from fight to fight, I have found in my experience with monks here that sneaking is usually a good way to get yourself killed. With Deflect Arrows, monks rarely have to worry about ranged attacks. If you have a decent ranged weapon (crossbow or bow, depending on race), you can plink someone to death from range without ever taking a hit. Or, you can use those ranged weapons to advance on someone until they are in range, and then rush them and grapple them, rather than trying to land a sneaky grapple. Monks also generally have a speed advantage. Until you gain a level or two, you won't have that, but you can manufacture it with skate tattoos. If you choose to go this route, then use your superior speed to get in close quickly before the opponent has a chance to finish buffing. Also, my general rule of thumb with *any character is to never spend more rounds buffing than I have class levels if I can help it. Again...just some thoughts...do with them what you will.
Mind Rogue 09-26-05, 01:50 PM	Well, speaking as the onewho ran your last fight and who also has a monk in the arena (although she's hovering around 50/50 I think), I believe I can give some useful advice. First off, you generally won't be needing to enlarge yourself. You already have a +13 to grapple checks which should be plenty sufficient unless you find yourself against someone with a similar build. Yoriko carries a potion of enlarge person with her, but she only uses it against foes who possess similar capabilities. Second off, you're kind of a one-trick pony. You can grapple... and you can grapple. Other options would be a good investment. If you had the feats, Combat Expertise followed by Improved Trip or Disarm next level might offer another option, but it's probably too late for that. I don't expect that you'll be using Stunning Fist much though. Next, your ranged attack stinks, which is sad because a monk with deflect arrows and a ranged attack can be a real pain, especially once they begin to move as fast in one move action as their foe gets in two. Personally, I pick javelins because they deal more damage, although you have some range there on your crossbow. However, I think that with your low attack bonus with it, the extra damage on a rare hit is probably going to usually fair better than the lower penalty since you may be needing a 20 anyway. Of course, you could always carry both and use them as the situation calls for. Both essentially will require an action to reload, but you can always draw a javelin while moving. In general, I don't think it is usually worth trying to go invisible. There are some instances where it might be useful, such as if your opponent has a pseudo-save-or-die spell prepared and you want to make sure you avoid it but it generally isn't worth using every fight. This alone would save you quite a bit of money. Mage Armor and Skate however are pretty useful to have. Skate would allow you to get over and interrupt the buff sequence off those who tend to take way too long (such as Balbanes, Avatar of Life). Granted you have to spend a standard action to use it, but as long as you spend a full turn moving, you get that action back, and if it means that it allows you to reach your foe before he can apply his crucial shield buff which prevents you from landing an all-important blow. As you saw in your last battle, against many opponent, Mage Armor will help to stem off a lot of blows, which is particularly important because you have a pretty low AC. Fly is a nice contingency to have, although against enemies who use aerials against you, you can usually make up for it with a good ranged attack, which you sorely lack. However, it is so expensive, you'll essentially have to win to break even. It is probably better to just suck up the loss and hope your crossbow pulls in some lucky shots. Magic Weapon and Shillelagh don't stack. You should decide whether you want to whomp someone with your big stick or your fists, although they are cheap so it doesn't matter too much that you carry both. Healing potions don't help much when in grapple, allthough it doesn't hurt to carry them. Bull's strength is a bit expensive right now. If you use it, remember that you will come out behind if you lose. Suggestions: Invest in a MW crossbow or bolts to get some bonus on your ranged attack and/or pick up some javelins. Defensive items, such as ptn of mage armor, shield of faith, tatoo of force screen, etc. will probably do you more good than going invisible will. You might want to consider picking up the other protection:alignment potions.
Scribelords 09-26-05, 02:51 PM	My account is not working correctly, so for today I am going to do all my posting on this account.
TelinArtho 09-26-05, 02:56 PM	Here Lies Crovax 2 Ogres and a troll later His chest is a crater... Terror by the Sea (ECL7)
NiQil 09-26-05, 03:00 PM	So lets see.....two quests....two PC deaths. Either you are clearly outthinking your PC's, or the power level needs to come down a touch LOL You should add something to your sig about TelinArtho, the killer questlord LOL
Luni 09-26-05, 03:07 PM	Here Lies Crovax 2 Ogres and a troll later His chest is a crater... Terror by the Sea (ECL7) TelinArtho, you want to run a quest for me? :D
TelinArtho 09-26-05, 03:10 PM	Actually, I don't think either one was exactly horrible, though there's definitely things that both characters could've done to get out of their respective mess. Zamier: He had a fairly low AC and was within one move of an unknown number of opponents (at least 2). He started casting a full-round spell (which he admitted he had forgotten about), and they came over and smacked him, forcing him to lose it. He had plenty of time to buff, and could have moved away to buff if he felt he was at risk (which he should've). Still, he managed to do quite well after that by healing - but I really think he should've spent another round healing. It might not have made a difference, but just one CLW when he was that wounded was not a great idea. Crovax: See the quest - I've already outlined a few areas where Crovax could have done better. The crux of the problem is not effectively doing anything to his opponents until round 7 or 8. That and I was exceptionally kind for not having the ogre grapple him after Crovax shattered the club... Quests are not about me outthinking the PC, but it is also not supposed to be a cakewalk. Both of these fights were entirely winnable if the players took actions that would further their cause.
TelinArtho 09-26-05, 03:11 PM	TelinArtho, you want to run a quest for me? :D I'm always willing to do quests - send me the specifics... :)
NiQil 09-26-05, 03:14 PM	Actually, I don't think either one was exactly horrible, though there's definitely things that both characters could've done to get out of their respective mess. Zamier: He had a fairly low AC and was within one move of an unknown number of opponents (at least 2). He started casting a full-round spell (which he admitted he had forgotten about), and they came over and smacked him, forcing him to lose it. He had plenty of time to buff, and could have moved away to buff if he felt he was at risk (which he should've). Still, he managed to do quite well after that by healing - but I really think he should've spent another round healing. It might not have made a difference, but just one CLW when he was that wounded was not a great idea. Crovax: See the quest - I've already outlined a few areas where Crovax could have done better. The crux of the problem is not effectively doing anything to his opponents until round 7 or 8. That and I was exceptionally kind for not having the ogre grapple him after Crovax shattered the club... Quests are not about me outthinking the PC, but it is also not supposed to be a cakewalk. Both of these fights were entirely winnable if the players took actions that would further their cause. No worries...I was just giving ya a hard time for being the only questlord to ever kill a PC, let alone 2 in two weeks LOL
Luni 09-26-05, 03:17 PM	My account is not working correctly, so for today I am going to do all my posting on this account. And this is of course, no fun. I hope you can get it fixed.
TelinArtho 09-26-05, 03:18 PM	I know - just like Luni was probably just baiting me too... No worries. I was always considered a killer DM among my friends at home, but trust me - neither of these cases were because of my killer tendencies. Just bad luck...
Luni 09-26-05, 03:39 PM	I know - just like Luni was probably just baiting me too... No worries. I was always considered a killer DM among my friends at home, but trust me - neither of these cases were because of my killer tendencies. Just bad luck... I was baiting you, but now I'll have to come up with soemthing. I'll have to show these people how to win a quest.
Vathelokai 09-26-05, 03:42 PM	I have a dragon PC, Saffron (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7139586&postcount=450) In the dragon section of the monster manual, under feats it says that dragons "have one feat, plus additional feats based on Hit Dice just like any other creature." Does this mean Saffron gets a bonus feat for being a dragon, or is the 'one feat' the 1st HD feat that everything gets?
Luni 09-26-05, 03:47 PM	I have a dragon PC, Saffron (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7139586&postcount=450) In the dragon section of the monster manual, under feats it says that dragons "have one feat, plus additional feats based on Hit Dice just like any other creature." Does this mean Saffron gets a bonus feat for being a dragon, or is the 'one feat' the 1st HD feat that everything gets? Hmm. I thought True dragons weren't entiitled to feats. There are none in their descriptions. :D I think it means that the 1 feat is the 1st HD everyone gets. Take a look at the Dragon Turtle. It is a dragon without an extra feat.
Vathelokai 09-26-05, 03:52 PM	A monster gains feats just as a character does. Feats: All dragons have one feat, plus additional feats based on Hit Dice just like any other creature. Dragons favor Alertness, Blind-Fight, Cleave, Flyby Attack, Hover, Improved Initiative, Improved Sunder, Power Attack, Snatch, Weapon Focus (claw or bite), Wingover, and any metamagic feat that is available and useful to sorcerers.And there is no mention in the 'types, subtypes, and special abilities' section. Well, a dragon turtle isn't a 'true dragon.' And there are no examples in the SRD that I know of of true dragons (i.e. red blue gold brass, etc.).
Luni 09-26-05, 04:05 PM	And there is no mention in the 'types, subtypes, and special abilities' section. Well, a dragon turtle isn't a 'true dragon.' And there are no examples in the SRD that I know of of true dragons (i.e. red blue gold brass, etc.). I see what you mean now. There are two dragons in the Epic Monsters. They have no extra, bonus feats listed. Again, they aren't true dragons, but they are far closer then dragon turtles.
Vathelokai 09-26-05, 04:20 PM	The epic dragons "have all traits of standard dragons", so I assume they are 'true dragons.' I'll call it bad writing, and not give myself a bonus feat.
TheMagister 09-26-05, 04:40 PM	I'd like to quest Torgirr to acquire either boots of elvenkind or a cloak of elvenkind (surprise me!). How do I go about setting this up? TM
TelinArtho 09-26-05, 04:43 PM	Pick an active questlord or query for one (which you just did), provide the item that you want (which you did) and accept the questlord that you want. I'll offer my services. If you accept, send me some RP info for Torgirr (is there something in his history that he wants to explore, something he wants to look into, etc). Also send the ECL of the quest that you want (since you can technically specify any ECL - I wouldn't really recommend going I can set it up to start this Wednesday if you like. Just let me know.
TheMagister 09-26-05, 05:01 PM	Pick an active questlord or query for one (which you just did), provide the item that you want (which you did) and accept the questlord that you want. I'll offer my services. If you accept, send me some RP info for Torgirr (is there something in his history that he wants to explore, something he wants to look into, etc). Also send the ECL of the quest that you want (since you can technically specify any ECL - I wouldn't really recommend going I can set it up to start this Wednesday if you like. Just let me know. I'll accept TelinArtho as my questlord! (Lightning flashes as ominous black thunderheads form over the area...) Was that not a good idea? =) There's no special RP information for Torgirr besides what's on his character sheet. That ought to be enough. Wednesday would be fine. If you wouldn't be too busy, Saturday and Sunday would be better. I'll be basically glued to my work computer all weekend (I'll be working 9 straight 12hr. days...yecch). ECL of the quest...I just turned 4th, so I think I'll be best served by staying in the ECL 3 range, if that's all right. ECL 4 would just overpower me, I think. Ogres sound nice (yay, giant for favored enemies!). Again, surprise me! TM
NiQil 09-26-05, 05:06 PM	I'll accept TelinArtho as my questlord! (Lightning flashes as ominous black thunderheads form over the area...) Was that not a good idea? =) There's no special RP information for Torgirr besides what's on his character sheet. That ought to be enough. Wednesday would be fine. If you wouldn't be too busy, Saturday and Sunday would be better. I'll be basically glued to my work computer all weekend (I'll be working 9 straight 12hr. days...yecch). ECL of the quest...I just turned 4th, so I think I'll be best served by staying in the ECL 3 range, if that's all right. ECL 4 would just overpower me, I think. Ogres sound nice (yay, giant for favored enemies!). Again, surprise me! TM Drow sorcerers it is! LOL
RevIron 09-26-05, 05:06 PM	After I've finished making my Evil Cleric I'd like to join some sort of Evil Clerics and Blackguards guild. Is there already one of these? If not is there enough demand and someone who's prepared to run one of these? Thanks, Rev Iron
Vathelokai 09-26-05, 05:10 PM	Right now East Habari Trading company is the catch all evil guild. I think there is only 2 blackguards, but with the lowered guild requirements, s/he might fit in a couple different guilds.
Emrys Donovan 09-27-05, 02:39 AM	Ok, would someone mind looking over Sebastian (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7302348&postcount=471)? No, he's not my 10th character...I removed Ezra and replaced her with Sebastian. :P ;)
Maraxus 09-27-05, 06:03 AM	Oh my, half orc Str 18 + Strength Domain, +Rage, +Enlarge Person = 26. Massive. Only mistake: Nothing serious, under your disarm modifiers, it says "Improved Trip". One Idea: Why don't you make barbarien your first level. That would result in 2 more HPs and 4 skill points (or 6 if you want to be illiterate, or if you want to argue that a barbarien looses his illiteracy when he multiclasses) Oh and hide/movesilently noted is always good, even if untrained.
Vathelokai 09-27-05, 09:02 AM	You may pay 5° to get the right to buy custom permanent items based on the ones in the books. I'm interested in a necklace of prestidigitation. A necklace of mage hand (0 lv. spell) costs 900 gp. So could I get a neck. of pres. for 900 gp and 5 credits?
NiQil 09-27-05, 10:14 AM	Oh my, half orc Str 18 + Strength Domain, +Rage, +Enlarge Person = 26. Massive. Only mistake: Nothing serious, under your disarm modifiers, it says "Improved Trip". One Idea: Why don't you make barbarien your first level. That would result in 2 more HPs and 4 skill points (or 6 if you want to be illiterate, or if you want to argue that a barbarien looses his illiteracy when he multiclasses) Oh and hide/movesilently noted is always good, even if untrained. Actually, a barbarian *does lose its illiteracy when he multiclasses. Illiteracy: Barbarians are the only characters who do not automatically know how to read and write. A barbarian may spend 2 skill points to gain the ability to read and write all languages he is able to speak. A barbarian who gains a level in any other class automatically gains literacy. Any other character who gains a barbarian level does not lose the literacy he or she already had.
Emrys Donovan 09-27-05, 11:06 AM	One Idea: Why don't you make barbarien your first level. That would result in 2 more HPs and 4 skill points (or 6 if you want to be illiterate, or if you want to argue that a barbarien looses his illiteracy when he multiclasses) Because I wouldn't have enough skill points to get Know: Religion and my craft skills. Trust me...I've worked it out...Thanks for spotting that mistake, btw.
Maraxus 09-27-05, 11:48 AM	NiQil: Oh, right. Stupid rule but if it's in the books... :) Emrys: Some problems with the tags in your skills now. About the skills you are right - would not work, unless you took two ranks in know(religion) cross-class, when taking the barb level. :) ... Why do I tell you this? I don't know. ;)
TelinArtho 09-27-05, 11:55 AM	Just in case anyone was worried about the whole "augmented" tattoo issue - it appears that it is not so widespread as we thought and is limited to the lower level gladiators. I have just examined all gladiators ECL5+ and not a single one had a violation of this sort (was just looking for violations for tattoos - so not full audits...) I'll take a look at ECL3 and 4 during lunch. /d
Emrys Donovan 09-27-05, 11:57 AM	Emrys: Some problems with the tags in your skills now.Whats wrong with them? Edit: Nevermind, saw the missing end tag. Thanks.
NiQil 09-27-05, 12:33 PM	This just got posted in the Prison thread, and I went to look at it for myself, and I have to question if this is correct or not: Unless otherwise noted the character must go on a Quest to acquire a class ally. Class feature allies use the 25 pt buy to determine ability scores if they have a LA listed (planar cohort, thrall), else, if the ally has no LA (paladin mount, wizard familiar, etc) it uses the abilities presented in their entry, modified by whatever bonus it gets from being a class ally. If this is correct, then every wizard, sorcerer and druid that wants to have a class ally should have gone on a quest for it (in addition to paying the 100 gp for wizards and sorcerers). I would be willing to bet that most haven't. This also means paladins and rangers will have to when they level high enough as well. Before I start tossing characters into prison left and right, I want to get some verification that this is correct. Also, along the same vein: Allies gained from the leadership feat must be quested for, and they carry xp and gp penalties in the arena. What about psi crystals? These are also allies that are acquired with a feat. Should they not also have to be quested for, and carry xp and gp penalties?
TelinArtho 09-27-05, 12:46 PM	There is a rule in the thread that indicates you may Start with class allies if your class allows it. However, if you are to gain it After you have fought, then you need to quest/miniquest for it. I'll look it up, because it is not in the same area that I know of.
TelinArtho 09-27-05, 12:46 PM	Just in case anyone was worried about the whole "augmented" tattoo issue - it appears that it is not so widespread as we thought and is limited to the lower level gladiators. I have just examined all gladiators ECL5+ and not a single one had a violation of this sort (was just looking for violations for tattoos - so not full audits...) I'll take a look at ECL3 and 4 during lunch. /d Finished looking through the rest and posted a few violations. In essence - there really wasn't much in violation.
NiQil 09-27-05, 12:47 PM	There is a rule in the thread that indicates you may Start with class allies if your class allows it. However, if you are to gain it After you have fought, then you need to quest/miniquest for it. I'll look it up, because it is not in the same area that I know of. That would be helpful...otherwise lots of people are goin to prison LOL
SauroGrenom 09-27-05, 12:49 PM	If a character takes feats that improves his unarmed strike attack, then do those feats apply when he is grappling? For example if you get weapon specialization or weapon focus in Unarmed Strike, does the damage bonus apply to successfull grapple checks used to cause unarmed damage? Also does a Psychic Warrior qualify for taking Weapon Specialization feats? In the description of that classes bonus feats, the SRD entions that the Psychic warrior takes feats from the fighters bonus feats list.
TelinArtho 09-27-05, 12:57 PM	That would be helpful...otherwise lots of people are goin to prison LOL I can't find the reference right yet, but I know Cat has clarified about it before. Before we start putting people in prison for it, send a PM to get an official ruling. Also - with regard to the prison post you just put up for Virgo - he just finished his quest for his ally. If his quest is linked - then he has satisfied the requirement.
NiQil 09-27-05, 01:02 PM	I can't find the reference right yet, but I know Cat has clarified about it before. Before we start putting people in prison for it, send a PM to get an official ruling. Also - with regard to the prison post you just put up for Virgo - he just finished his quest for his ally. If his quest is linked - then he has satisfied the requirement. The last link on the sheet that I could find was the battle vs Mer-Man. The two quests that are linked on the sheet do not relate to the ally in any way. If he just finished the quest for it, it may be that he has just not added it yet, but with the ally being listed already, the quest should be too.
TelinArtho 09-27-05, 01:05 PM	Well, if the quest is not linked - its fair game. Put him in prison boys!
Tellish_of_Ket 09-27-05, 03:23 PM	@ALL: RE: of Halfling and Haversacks. Just curious since small creatures use "small" equipment, does that also mean that the haversack is small and weights 2.5 lbs and holds 3/4 the regular amount? -ToK
Gonbow 09-27-05, 03:28 PM	If it is a 'small' haversack, it would weigh 3/4's, yes. But I don't think it's carrying capacity would change as that is magical. @Twinks Before you rush out and buy 'small' haversacks, keep in mind that you cannot efficiently use items that are not designed for your size, so you'll have to spend extra actions to get stuff out and what not. (You would if I was a DM, anyways.)
Tellish_of_Ket 09-27-05, 03:35 PM	If it is a 'small' haversack, it would weigh 3/4's, yes. But I don't think it's carrying capacity would change as that is magical. @Twinks Before you rush out and buy 'small' haversacks, keep in mind that you cannot efficiently use items that are not designed for your size, so you'll have to spend extra actions to get stuff out and what not. (You would if I was a DM, anyways.) Then everyone would just buy diminuative haversacks and keep them on their belts like a pouch. It's a tough question, i know. I'm still researching it myself and haven't come up with anything conclusive. -ToK
Vathelokai 09-27-05, 05:14 PM	Wondering about my tiny haversack? I figured that it did the 'scales to fit the wearer' thing that most magic items do.
Usurpator 09-27-05, 05:22 PM	Then everyone would just buy diminuative haversacks and keep them on their belts like a pouch. It's a tough question, i know. I'm still researching it myself and haven't come up with anything conclusive. How about: the diminutive haversacks would enlarge to become medium sized haversacks once a medium-sized creature picked them up?
NiQil 09-27-05, 06:01 PM	Here is the conversation I had with Cat.....in short, wizards, sorcerers, druids, rangers, paladins, and any psionic class that gains psicrystal affinity does not need to quest or miniquest for their respective allies. The "unless otherwise noted" mentioned in the Rules thread is referring to the respective class entries on how to obtain those allies. I made this post in the Tavern, and wanted to bring it to your attention, because either it is an error in the Rules thread that will need to be changed or clarified, or we have a whole lot of people with character violations. Also, there is a second question at the bottom of the post regarding allies obtained from feats. This just got posted in the Prison thread, and I went to look at it for myself, and I have to question if this is correct or not: Unless otherwise noted the character must go on a Quest to acquire a class ally. Class feature allies use the 25 pt buy to determine ability scores if they have a LA listed (planar cohort, thrall), else, if the ally has no LA (paladin mount, wizard familiar, etc) it uses the abilities presented in their entry, modified by whatever bonus it gets from being a class ally. If this is correct, then every wizard, sorcerer and druid that wants to have a class ally should have gone on a quest for it (in addition to paying the 100 gp for wizards and sorcerers). I would be willing to bet that most haven't. This also means paladins and rangers will have to when they level high enough as well. Before I start tossing characters into prison left and right, I want to get some verification that this is correct. Also, along the same vein: Allies gained from the leadership feat must be quested for, and they carry xp and gp penalties in the arena. What about psi crystals? These are also allies that are acquired with a feat. Should they not also have to be quested for, and carry xp and gp penalties? See highlighted part That is the part that we have a question about. As far as we can tell, there is no other note. So, by that response, it would appear to me that every sorcerer, wizard and druid with an ally who hasn't quested for it is in violation. Also, that didn't address the second question regarding allies gained from feats. The leadership feat requires a quest...does the feat for psicrystals also require a quest to gain a psicrystal? A wizard uses a ritual, a druid calls his companion, and a paladin summons his mount. There is no need for a quest. A psicrystal quest would be pretty stupid too. @TheMagister That means you do not have to miniquest for your animal companion, but you can if you want to.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-27-05, 07:05 PM	How about: the diminutive haversacks would enlarge to become medium sized haversacks once a medium-sized creature picked them up? Excellent suggestion Usurpator. -ToK
Enterik 09-28-05, 10:35 AM	Is there a pre-existing body of discourse on the use of caltrops in the arena? More specifically, what is the spot or search DC to notice caltrops in the standard arena? There was some discussion (1 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7361748&postcount=356),2 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7361826&postcount=358),3 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7362009&postcount=364),4 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7362238&postcount=368),5 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7362351&postcount=369),6 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7362741&postcount=376)) in the fight of the week september 21, 2005 thread, but no resolution. My character attempted to use them, but the DM had the opponent notice (without roll) and step around them, so they were pretty much useless, and in fact, since there was no chance they were going to work, the caltrops gambit was a substantial liability (not that I was going to win against an AC my PC could not hit). If this is the standard way caltrop use is going to be resolved in the arena, I probably won't use them again. Regardless, it seems like there should be some sort of official position on the mechanics of becoming aware of their presence.
Snommelp 09-28-05, 10:52 AM	Do CoCo monks have to deal with the multi-class restriction that is in the PHB? I'm guessing yes, but if no, I've got an idea to try...
SoulLord 09-28-05, 11:06 AM	Is there a pre-existing body of discourse on the use of caltrops in the arena? More specifically, what is the spot or search DC to notice caltrops in the standard arena? There was some discussion (1 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7361748&postcount=356),2 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7361826&postcount=358),3 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7362009&postcount=364),4 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7362238&postcount=368),5 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7362351&postcount=369),6 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7362741&postcount=376)) in the fight of the week september 21, 2005 thread, but no resolution. My character attempted to use them, but the DM had the opponent notice (without roll) and step around them, so they were pretty much useless, and in fact, since there was no chance they were going to work, the caltrops gambit was a substantial liability (not that I was going to win against an AC my PC could not hit). If this is the standard way caltrop use is going to be resolved in the arena, I probably won't use them again. Regardless, it seems like there should be some sort of official position on the mechanics of becoming aware of their presence. You could always use them to stop someone from charging you.....
NiQil 09-28-05, 11:10 AM	Do CoCo monks have to deal with the multi-class restriction that is in the PHB? I'm guessing yes, but if no, I've got an idea to try... To the best of my knowledge, normal multi-class core rules apply. So yes, you would not be able to go monk again after leaving.
TheMagister 09-28-05, 11:13 AM	@TheMagister That means you do not have to miniquest for your animal companion, but you can if you want to. Whee!!! Jailbreak! TM
NiQil 09-28-05, 11:14 AM	Whee!!! Jailbreak! TM Make sure your narc knows so your violation is rescinded.
TelinArtho 09-28-05, 11:15 AM	I already noted the change in the prison thread. I'm very proactive like that...
NiQil 09-28-05, 11:16 AM	I already noted the change in the prison thread. I'm very proactive like that... I figured as much...but didn't want to let your head get *too big LOL.
Enterik 09-28-05, 11:20 AM	You could always use [caltrops] to stop someone from charging you..... Fair enough, that might stop a charge, but I'd still like to know my chances of actually hobble my opponent before they have a choice in the matter.
NiQil 09-28-05, 11:28 AM	Fair enough, that might stop a charge, but I'd still like to know my chances of actually hobble my opponent before they have a choice in the matter. In all honesty....in an arena setting, really the only way caltrops are going to be useful is to get yourself into a corner and then cover the open spaces immediately around you with them so that anyone that wants to engage you in melee has to go through them to get to you. And even that would take several turns to set up. They are probably much more useful in a quest or campaign setting than in the arena.
Enterik 09-28-05, 12:43 PM	In all honesty....in an arena setting, really the only way caltrops are going to be useful is to get yourself into a corner and then cover the open spaces immediately around you with them so that anyone that wants to engage you in melee has to go through them to get to you. And even that would take several turns to set up. They are probably much more useful in a quest or campaign setting than in the arena. That caltrops are more useful elsewhere may be so. I'm not really concerned about that. I just want some sort of official guideline for arena use for the purposes of hobbling. If they are obvious enough to autospot then Devolved won't bother to encumber hissself...
TelinArtho 09-28-05, 03:45 PM	@Enterik - The old council thread probably won't be the best place to post about it - here is. However, if you are looking for an immediate answer, the simple answer is "we don't know." If you want to bring it to the forefront, PM Cat, LLMadCow, King Uther, Huan and Pittbull (the current elders - I didn't miss anyone or apply the title incorrectly right?) and see if they'll address it. The only other option is to find a quote, reference or source (possibly not SRD or even 3.5) where it indicates some spot/search check for caltrops. /d
NiQil 09-28-05, 03:51 PM	@Enterik - The old council thread probably won't be the best place to post about it - here is. However, if you are looking for an immediate answer, the simple answer is "we don't know." If you want to bring it to the forefront, PM Cat, LLMadCow, King Uther, Huan and Pittbull (the current elders - I didn't miss anyone or apply the title incorrectly right?) and see if they'll address it. The only other option is to find a quote, reference or source (possibly not SRD or even 3.5) where it indicates some spot/search check for caltrops. /d You missed ToK...he'll be crushed.
TelinArtho 09-28-05, 03:54 PM	Damn - I was doing so good too...
Enterik 09-28-05, 04:32 PM	@Enterik - The old council thread probably won't be the best place to post about it - here is. However, if you are looking for an immediate answer, the simple answer is "we don't know." If you want to bring it to the forefront, PM Cat, LLMadCow, King Uther, Huan and Pittbull (the current elders - I didn't miss anyone or apply the title incorrectly right?) and see if they'll address it. The only other option is to find a quote, reference or source (possibly not SRD or even 3.5) where it indicates some spot/search check for caltrops. /d Well, a search of the D&D section of the wixards site, shows that iconic characters and personalities like caltrops and a blurb in Tactics and Tip: Managing the Battlefield (Part Two) (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/tt/20050418a) The caltrops might halve a foe's movement or perhaps simply cause an opponent to avoid a specific square. The latter tactic works better with reasonably intelligent foes who recognize the impediment and might choose to avoid it. Both lend you a bit more control over movement on the field. and Room 2: Down on their Luck (EL2) from Return to Undermountain (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ru/20050323a) puts pre-scattered caltrops in the description of the area The floor about the door is strewn with caltrops, and the walls of this dusty room bear engravings of robed figures bearing staffs, wands, scrolls, spellbooks, and other symbols of arcane spellcasting. It also holds three snarling orcs warriors! Already on their feet when you enter, they draw their weapons and shout at you in their crude language. Both seem to point towards automatic awareness by intelligent creatures... That's about it, unless you want to cite Magic Cards :P
TelinArtho 09-28-05, 04:42 PM	Still readying the caltrops as a spread into x square just before character b moves into it should be an effective option. It may not be as perfect as you want, but it should still work. /d
TelinArtho 09-28-05, 04:45 PM	Okay so I'm working on a marilith look-alike... a sahaugin mutant with 4 arms. I need some help determining attack boni - if you please: Str 20 (+5) Dex 18 (+4) BAB +3 Multiattack, Multiweapon Fighting. Natural Attacks (this one's easy): 4 Talons +8 melee [+3 BAB, +5 Str], 1d4+5 dmg each and Bite +6 melee [+3 BAB, +5 Str, -2 2ndary attack], 1d4+2 dmg. With weapons: Trident +6 melee [+3 BAB, +5 Str, -2 multiweapon fighting], 1d8+5 dmg 3 Short Swords +6 melee [+3 BAB, +5 Str, -2 multiweapon fighting], 1d6+2 dmg and Bite +4? melee [+3 BAB, +5 Str, -2 multiweapon fighting, -2 2ndary attack], 1d4+2 dmg Let me know if I've got anything wrong there.
NiQil 09-28-05, 04:50 PM	Okay so I'm working on a marilith look-alike... a sahaugin mutant with 4 arms. I need some help determining attack boni - if you please: Str 20 (+5) Dex 18 (+4) BAB +3 Multiattack, Multiweapon Fighting. Natural Attacks (this one's easy): 4 Talons +8 melee, 1d4+5 dmg each and Bite +6 melee, 1d4+2 dmg. With weapons: Trident +6 melee, 1d8+5 dmg 3 Short Swords +6 melee, 1d6+2 dmg and Bite +4? melee, 1d4+2 dmg Let me know if I've got anything wrong there. You might have better luck if you write these out as standard attack and full attack, and then within each option include both attacks with natural weapons and attacks with manufactured weapons seperately, because the bonuses could change depending on the situation.
TelinArtho 09-28-05, 04:52 PM	Well, I'm kind of only looking for help in the full attack (standard attacks are pretty easy to figure out...). I'll list the appropriate boni in blocks edited above.
NiQil 09-28-05, 04:58 PM	As far as I can tell, they look correct to me. The only thing I would do differently is wield 4 short swords so that if I pick up anything weapon affecting (focus, improved crit, etc) would apply to all of my weapon attacks....but that's me....I like synergies like that.
TelinArtho 09-28-05, 05:05 PM	Actually, I'll probably have an overly large selection of weapons, plus he's picking up cleric levels later and he'll have a shield as an option: 4 short swords, 1 trident, lg stl shield, scrolls, some bludgeoning weapon, some slashing weapon, 2 crossbows? maybe... (Scroll in hand, trident in hand, shield in hand and can still cast a spell... heh heh heh...)
NiQil 09-28-05, 05:13 PM	Sounds like some of my character ideas....not the 4 limbs though....I loathe level adjustments LOL....but carrying the proverbial "golf bag" of weapons...that's right up my alley LOL.
NiQil 09-28-05, 05:34 PM	1. Do things like scrolls and potions (and via transparancy, tattoos and powerstones) register a magical aura as it relates to the detect magic spell? Or is it just things like wands, rods, wonderous items (and dorjes and psicrowns through transparancy)? 2. With regard to domain spells for clerics....after you select the one domain spell you are required to take, are you allowed to take more domain spells beyond that at any given level. Example: On the Travel domain, Longstrider is the first level domain spell, but that spell is not normally included on a cleric spell list if you do not have that domain. If I select another spell as my domain spell for 1st level (from the other domain I have), can I then select Longstrider as part of the other 1st level spells I can cast at that level, or can I *only take it as a domain spell, since it is not normally on the cleric list? To put it another way, do domain spells become part of your cleric spell list to be chosen anytime you refresh spells?
Luni 09-28-05, 05:57 PM	Do things like scrolls and potions (and via transparancy, tattoos and powerstones) register a magical aura as it relates to the detect magic spell? Or is it just things like wands, rods, wonderous items (and dorjes and psicrowns through transparancy)? Yeah, scrolls and potions do radiate magic. For scrolls, the spells on the scroll determines the school of magic. For potions, the base spell determines the school. As for via transparency, I'm not sure. I'd say yes, you get a magical aura, just no school of magic. The same thing applies to Detect Psionics.
NiQil 09-28-05, 06:03 PM	Yeah, scrolls and potions do radiate magic. For scrolls, the spells on the scroll determines the school of magic. For potions, the base spell determines the school. As for via transparency, I'm not sure. I'd say yes, you get a magical aura, just no school of magic. The same thing applies to Detect Psionics. Heh...caught me before I edited. Cool beans....nothing like a level 0 spell to spoil someone hiding that is carrying magical expendables...
Luni 09-28-05, 06:08 PM	2. With regard to domain spells for clerics....after you select the one domain spell you are required to take, are you allowed to take more domain spells beyond that at any given level. Example: On the Travel domain, Longstrider is the first level domain spell, but that spell is not normally included on a cleric spell list if you do not have that domain. If I select another spell as my domain spell for 1st level (from the other domain I have), can I then select Longstrider as part of the other 1st level spells I can cast at that level, or can I *only take it as a domain spell, since it is not normally on the cleric list? To put it another way, do domain spells become part of your cleric spell list to be chosen anytime you refresh spells? No, they stay as just domain spells. Of course, you can get scrolls of those new spells and cast them, since they are on your list.
Luni 09-28-05, 06:08 PM	Heh...caught me before I edited. Cool beans....nothing like a level 0 spell to spoil someone hiding that is carrying magical expendables... Well, it takes a while to pinpoint their location. If they keep on moving, Detect Magic really won't help you.
NiQil 09-28-05, 06:17 PM	Well, it takes a while to pinpoint their location. If they keep on moving, Detect Magic really won't help you. Not really....3 rds to pinpoint as long as they are within the range of the spell...which is 60 feet. Especially useful for those that favor invisibility because it will detect the spell in use as well as the items they carry. And on that note, question number 3....would you be able to negate the effects of invisibility (loss of Dex AC, 50% miss chance, etc) by doing something like covering the invisible person in something that makes them visible....like flour or sand or something? You'd still have to hit them with it, but once you do, would the invisibility effects be negated, since you can now see them (if even only partially...like a head or chest or something)?
Usurpator 09-28-05, 06:22 PM	And on that note, question number 3....would you be able to negate the effects of invisibility (loss of Dex AC, 50% miss chance, etc) by doing something like covering the invisible person in something that makes them visible....like flour or sand or something? You'd still have to hit them with it, but once you do, would the invisibility effects be negated, since you can now see them (if even only partially...like a head or chest or something)? As a DM, I would allow it immediately. In the Arena, I don't know. There are no clear rules for it, and it is probably going to be used a lot, so we have to establish a house rule for it. Personally, I prefer paint over flour or sand, it sticks better and looks better. :D
NiQil 09-28-05, 06:30 PM	As a DM, I would allow it immediately. In the Arena, I don't know. There are no clear rules for it, and it is probably going to be used a lot, so we have to establish a house rule for it. Personally, I prefer paint over flour or sand, it sticks better and looks better. :D Yeah...I use it all the time in home campaigns....never leave home without a bag of cooking flour or a can of paint or something similar....but I definitely want a ruling on how it would work here, because it is a cheap and easy way to negate invisibility it it is allowed. @ Cat & all Elders What say you?
nightbanegod 09-28-05, 06:37 PM	but wouldnt said paint/flour/sand become an item "in their poseession" and become invisible as well?
SoulLord 09-28-05, 06:40 PM	Just throw a tanglefoot bag at them at least you'll know where they are supposed to be.
NiQil 09-28-05, 06:44 PM	but wouldnt said paint/flour/sand become an item "in their poseession" and become invisible as well? No, because... ...picked up items disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. ...they would have to scrape it all off of them and put it into pouches or clothing....have you ever tried to get flour off of your face? Ever get it all without spending a lot of time doing it or washing your face?
nightbanegod 09-28-05, 06:58 PM	good point. and no it wasnt flour. i just spent a few days getting industrial paint off my hands. dawn soaptm, industrial floor stripper, hand soap, fingernail polish remover, rubbing alcohol, nothing got it off. it eventually wore off though. perhaps with a big enough dose of paint. they would stay covered till next pairings!!
NiQil 09-28-05, 07:05 PM	good point. and no it wasnt flour. i just spent a few days getting industrial paint off my hands. dawn soaptm, industrial floor stripper, hand soap, fingernail polish remover, rubbing alcohol, nothing got it off. it eventually wore off though. perhaps with a big enough dose of paint. they would stay covered till next pairings!! heh my step-father has a home-made solvent that we use for things like that...not sure what he uses to make it but it works wonders. Doesn't damage your skin, but will take all kinds of things off of you. The only problem with my theory is that I don't see sand, paint, or flour on the Equipment price list....so for this theory to be viable it would have to be something with a price entry already....I was thinking maybe lantern oil....then you can light them on fire later too LOL.
NiQil 09-28-05, 07:26 PM	Yet another question... With regard to druids and animal companions... If a druid takes a horse as it's animal companions...would you use the statblock for a light/heavy horse or light/heavy warhorse?
nightbanegod 09-28-05, 07:48 PM	Yet another question... With regard to druids and animal companions... If a druid takes a horse as it's animal companions...would you use the statblock for a light/heavy horse or light/heavy warhorse? OOOOOO free mount with no rewards penalty WEEEE!!! and it would have to be a light horse/warhorse to begin with due to the CR. CR2s are for higher lvl druids. hence the croc issue
NiQil 09-28-05, 07:58 PM	OOOOOO free mount with no rewards penalty WEEEE!!! and it would have to be a light horse/warhorse to begin with due to the CR. CR2s are for higher lvl druids. hence the croc issue No...you can have either a light or heavy horse as a companion...I am just wondering which statblock to use for a druid to take one. A druid may begin play with an animal companion selected from the following list: badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf. Based on the other animals listed here, I am guessing it is probably the normal horses, as opposed to a warhorse statblock....but I wanted to be sure. But yes....druids can have a free mount if they so choose LOL
NiQil 09-29-05, 01:24 AM	I just stumbled across something, and I think that it is going to change lots of people's characters...or more specifically, their animal companions and familiars. Since animal companions and familiars receive bonus hit dice as their masters advance, those creatures should also be advancing for each hit die. The thing that most people probably haven't been doing is that, in the MM entry for the specific creature, it has an Advancement listing down at the bottom of the statblock based on it's HD. If the statblock says so, and the HD advance far enough, the size of the creature may change. If so, then the creatures stats receives boosts and penalties accordingly. As an example, take a druid with a wolf for an animal companion. Wolves normally start with 2 HD. With a 3rd level character for a master, it is going to receive 2 additional HD as bonus. If you look at the wolf's statblock in the MM, it says that at 4 HD, wolves change from medium creatures to large. So then, if you go to the section of the MM for improving monsters, it gives you charts on what gets changed if your creature changes size due to advancement. Just to give you an idea of how big this could be for some of you....I have a druid I am tinkering with, who has a wolf as a companion. This wolf has 34 HP, a +8 Bite attack that does 1d8+6 damage, with a +17 Grapple (due to taking Improved Grapple as a feat for it's 3rd HD). That is more powerful than most characters at level 3 or 4. After looking at some of the familiars and animal companions currently attached to characters, I would recommend to you all that you take a look at what I am talking about...it will make your friends much more durable.
Maraxus 09-29-05, 01:37 AM	No, it was clarified that the hit dies are no advancement as in the statistics bock advancement. This has two effects: 1. No increase in size. 2. More then the normal maximum possible.
Luni 09-29-05, 01:44 AM	I just stumbled across something, and I think that it is going to change lots of people's characters...or more specifically, their animal companions and familiars. Since animal companions and familiars receive bonus hit dice as their masters advance, those creatures should also be advancing for each hit die. The thing that most people probably haven't been doing is that, in the MM entry for the specific creature, it has an Advancement listing down at the bottom of the statblock based on it's HD. If the statblock says so, and the HD advance far enough, the size of the creature may change. If so, then the creatures stats receives boosts and penalties accordingly. As an example, take a druid with a wolf for an animal companion. Wolves normally start with 2 HD. With a 3rd level character for a master, it is going to receive 2 additional HD as bonus. If you look at the wolf's statblock in the MM, it says that at 4 HD, wolves change from medium creatures to large. So then, if you go to the section of the MM for improving monsters, it gives you charts on what gets changed if your creature changes size due to advancement. Just to give you an idea of how big this could be for some of you....I have a druid I am tinkering with, who has a wolf as a companion. This wolf has 34 HP, a +8 Bite attack that does 1d8+6 damage, with a +17 Grapple (due to taking Improved Grapple as a feat for it's 3rd HD). That is more powerful than most characters at level 3 or 4. After looking at some of the familiars and animal companions currently attached to characters, I would recommend to you all that you take a look at what I am talking about...it will make your friends much more durable. Familiars advance only in HD. They never get more skills, feats or anything else. There HD is just higher for spells and effect. As for animal companions, it has been stated in the FAQ that they don't advance in size.
NiQil 09-29-05, 01:49 AM	Familiars advance only in HD. They never get more skills, feats or anything else. There HD is just higher for spells and effect. As for animal companions, it has been stated in the FAQ that they don't advance in size. I'm really glad you pointed that out, because otherwise druids would be even more broken than they are. I was looking at that, saying "That can't be right." Fortunately, even though they don't get the size, they do still advance with their HD increase as far as skills, BAB and so forth. Can you imagine a level 3 druid rolling around here with a huge horse? LMAO
Caterane 09-29-05, 05:14 AM	@all: My internet connection broke down yesterday and I cannot access the web. My phone company said it will be reinstalled within the next 2-7 days during which I won't be able to get online very often (friends, faculty, internet cafés). Tellish of Ket will run the Pitlord account for the time being until further notice. I'll be back soon. Cat PS: Visit the Council!
TelinArtho 09-29-05, 11:56 AM	Can anyone tell me what the favored class is for Sahaugin (and if it makes a difference, Sahaugin mutants)? It doesn't appear to be in the SRD, so any help here would be great.
TelinArtho 09-29-05, 12:08 PM	From the rules thread: The environmental specifics of the Arena can change to fit the gladiators fighting in it; it always does its best to be as beneficial to both gladiatos as possible. If one gladiator wants to burrow, then the earth is loose enough to allow burrowing. If, on the other hand, a gladiator wants to Meld into Stone, then he can assume any part of the Arena to be made of stone. If a light breeze would be helpful to either party, then there is a light breeze. Naturally, common sense should always be used: just because one character is a Merfolk, the Arena will not be flooded with water. These environmental bonuses should always be minor, and never actively hostile to the other gladiator. Okay a couple of things here, and again, think Sahaugin because that's what I'm working with: 1. While I would not expect the arena to be flooded, what if the creature has no land speed? For instance, a sahaugin druid gets a shark companion - is the shark completely useless in the arena? Or are we to assume that a creature that can't normally live outside of water uses the same mode of movement just in a virtual sense (so the shark would move at 60ft)? 2. Since prebuffs are only valid if they last for 16+ hours, what about breathing. A sahaugin can survive out of water for 1 hour per 2 points of constitution, so unless the sahaugin has a Con score of 32, or unless there's something I'm missing here - there's a problem... Thanks /d
NiQil 09-29-05, 12:20 PM	Quick question about light shields. I know that you cannot wield weapons in the hand using a light shield. But it does say it lets you carry other items in that hand. 1. Can you wield a weapon-like object (i.e. wand) in that hand? I know you can hold it, but can you wield it? 2. Can that hand be used to cast spells?
TelinArtho 09-29-05, 12:27 PM	You can't weild anything, and you can't cast spells with a light shield in hand. You can hold an item though. As to whether you can use a wand - that's a tough one and I simply don't know the answer. I suspect the answer is no though...
Mind Rogue 09-29-05, 12:29 PM	You cannot "wield" the wand with your shield hand, which prevents you from activating it. You could hold something else in that hand, however, and put the wand in your primary hand. Or you could always carry a buckler instead.
NiQil 09-29-05, 12:33 PM	You can't weild anything, and you can't cast spells with a light shield in hand. You can hold an item though. As to whether you can use a wand - that's a tough one and I simply don't know the answer. I suspect the answer is no though... That's the one I'm stuck on as well. I was pretty sure that you couldn't cast (but wanted to double check) with that hand, and I know you can't wield a weapon...but the shield entry says nothing about wielding weapon-like objects. I have a ranger I am tinkering with that will be two-weapon fighting with a sword and shield, and I was trying to figure out if he could still wield a cure wand in the same hand that he is wielding the light shield. This is all that it has in the Wand entry: To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole. Based on that, and on the fact that the light shield restricts the wielding of weapons but not weapon-like objects....I would lean towards the side of yes you can. But then again, I'm a little biased LOL.
NiQil 09-29-05, 12:39 PM	Second double post this morning.
NiQil 09-29-05, 12:42 PM	You cannot "wield" the wand with your shield hand, which prevents you from activating it. You could hold something else in that hand, however, and put the wand in your primary hand. Or you could always carry a buckler instead. That's the crux of the argument....I don't think you "wield" wands in the conventional sense. You simply hold and point. I don't know if that constitutes wielding. And it isn't a weapon, but rather a weapon-like object. So I don't know if the same restrictions apply to it in the first place. So if there is any text supporting your statement, please post it. So far, I haven't come across any.
Snommelp 09-29-05, 01:24 PM	Can anyone tell me what the favored class is for Sahaugin (and if it makes a difference, Sahaugin mutants)? It doesn't appear to be in the SRD, so any help here would be great.Ranger.1. While I would not expect the arena to be flooded, what if the creature has no land speed? For instance, a sahaugin druid gets a shark companion - is the shark completely useless in the arena? Or are we to assume that a creature that can't normally live outside of water uses the same mode of movement just in a virtual sense (so the shark would move at 60ft)? 2. Since prebuffs are only valid if they last for 16+ hours, what about breathing. A sahaugin can survive out of water for 1 hour per 2 points of constitution, so unless the sahaugin has a Con score of 32, or unless there's something I'm missing here - there's a problem...1. Your druid wouldn't have to have a shark companion... although of course the racial bonus points that way. I think if we start to see a lot of merfolk and such, we'll have to make a special arena for them to keep things fair. 2. I'd say breathing is an exception. You can stay in water until right before your fight starts.
TelinArtho 09-29-05, 01:36 PM	I know he wouldn't "have" to have a shark companion - I'm more asking what the viability of aquatic allies is. For instance, I'm making a sahaugin character who will probably fight in the arena and do quests (which will likely be mostly underwater). If I have to have 2 types of allies - ones I can use in the arena and ones I can't this is more draining on my character's resources (because he needs to train two separate allies for instance). The character in question isn't even a druid - but I wanted an easy reference...
NiQil 09-29-05, 02:55 PM	What is our position in CoCo on paladin's being allowed to have creatures other than horses for their summoned mounts? The class entry for paladin's says that horses are usually the summoned creature, but not always. Do we have the option of choosing a different animal? If so, what are the criteria that they would have to meet? If this were to require credits, that would be fine....I just want to know for future reference.
TelinArtho 09-29-05, 04:24 PM	Okay - I've posted my sahaugin for review. If anyone sees any errors - let me know. Thanks Aquin (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7382313)
SoulLord 09-29-05, 04:40 PM	Okay - I've posted my sahaugin for review. If anyone sees any errors - let me know. Thanks Aquin (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7382313) Every time I see a character like this I remember the Old Terror from the deep. time to bring the old X-com defense up
TelinArtho 09-29-05, 04:42 PM	You too?
TelinArtho 09-29-05, 04:48 PM	Next week, Kraegin is planning on going on a quest to unearth and restore a lost temple to Denth. Are there any able-bodied souls who would be willing to accompany me? Also, Questlord King Uther - are you able to do this quest? ECL will depend on whether or not someone accompanies him. Kraegin will be 5th level, so anyone wishing to join him should be 4-6th level and NOT a cleric/druid/paladin and of non-good alignment. If not, he'll be happy to quest on his own. /d
TheMagister 09-29-05, 05:34 PM	Next week, Kraegin is planning on going on a quest to unearth and restore a lost temple to Denth. Are there any able-bodied souls who would be willing to accompany me? Also, Questlord King Uther - are you able to do this quest? ECL will depend on whether or not someone accompanies him. Kraegin will be 5th level, so anyone wishing to join him should be 4-6th level and NOT a cleric/druid/paladin and of non-good alignment. If not, he'll be happy to quest on his own. /d Sdentch is up for a quest. She wants a lion-shield. A spiked light shield version of a lion-shield. Yeah...(drool)... Or just some gauntlets of ogre power. Or lots of gold. Heck, just pay her with food. TM
TelinArtho 09-29-05, 05:56 PM	Since Sdentch is 4th level, the treasure isn't distributed evenly. She'd get 4/9ths and Kraegin would get 5/9ths. This works out as follows for ECL 5-9 quests: ECL5 2844/3556 ECL6 3556/4444 ECL7 4622/5778 ECL8 5867/7333 ECL9 8k/10k On the other hand, Sdentch will get more XP since she is lower level. Kraegin isn't questing for a particular item, so he's fine with any ECL 5-9. If Sdentch wants Gauntlets of Ogre Power, it would need to be at least ECL7; for a Lion Shield (a customized one would cost a fair number of credits and only be marginally less expensive) (9170gp) would be at least ECL10 - and I'm thinking that's way out of our league...
TheMagister 09-29-05, 06:00 PM	Since Sdentch is 4th level, the treasure isn't distributed evenly. She'd get 4/9ths and Kraegin would get 5/9ths. This works out as follows for ECL 5-9 quests: ECL5 2844/3556 ECL6 3556/4444 ECL7 4622/5778 ECL8 5867/7333 ECL9 8k/10k On the other hand, Sdentch will get more XP since she is lower level. Kraegin isn't questing for a particular item, so he's fine with any ECL 5-9. If Sdentch wants Gauntlets of Ogre Power, it would need to be at least ECL7; for a Lion Shield (a customized one would cost a fair number of credits and only be marginally less expensive) (9170gp) would be at least ECL10 - and I'm thinking that's way out of our league... Bah. I'm in it for the adventure. I don't need shineys or pretty things. Any treasure she finds is cool with her. I'm all right with DM surprises. TM
Begferdeth 09-29-05, 06:11 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7382911&postcount=480 Ive made a second gladiator! This one will probably do even worse that Chili did, but I just got the idea and had to try it. Anyways, have a look, tell me what Ive done horribly wrong...
SauroGrenom 09-30-05, 12:25 AM	Is there any limit upon the number of purchased allies that can be brought into the Arena?
Vathelokai 09-30-05, 01:06 AM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7382911&postcount=480 Ive made a second gladiator! This one will probably do even worse that Chili did, but I just got the idea and had to try it. Anyways, have a look, tell me what Ive done horribly wrong... You can get to a thing called 'character map' by going to the start button, then all programs, accessories, then system. You can cut and paste (or learn the key stroke for) an umlaut from there.
Luni 09-30-05, 01:08 AM	Is there any limit upon the number of purchased allies that can be brought into the Arena? Yep. It is ECL - 2. With no individual ally taking up more then ECL - 2 [If they have a level adjustment] or ECL -4 [Mininum 1] if not. It is all in the Rules of Gladius under allies.
Usurpator 09-30-05, 02:03 AM	Moving this discussion to the tavern: Aramur, the Aurora Prince has a bad mount. Hey, what about that: Make customisating allies free for everybody. That's only an unfair advantage now. You don't have to pay credits for swapping feats on mounts you can buy, I did pay extra gold for the two custom feats. I think the mounts are getting a little silly. I agree, this mount was just one of the more regular designs I have lying around. Just wait until I bring in my Wild Talented steeds. If I win this fight I could easily buy three more custom mounts, choosing the most effective one to ride each fight. I also think a normal light warhorse would be CR1 but a Warhorse with Improved Grapple, Armor Spikes and Proficiency would be easily CR2. Hell, it could easily take down EL3's specialized in grappling: better movement, good hit points, three touch attacks to start grapple and better grapple checks.... If you look at the Pirotess fight: she didn't do a single thing that affected the battle, nothing, it was solely the Hrolf that beat her opponent. If feat customizing would cost credits and/or perhaps raise the CR of allies by 1 would probably help a lot. Otherwise, plan on seeing a lot of customized steeds from me, cause if I may not bring them, maybe my opponent will. Although I won't give any of them Deflect Arrows, I promise.
Luni 09-30-05, 02:07 AM	Moving this discussion to the tavern: You don't have to pay credits for swapping feats on mounts you can buy, I did pay extra gold for the two custom feats. I agree, this mount was just one of the more regular designs I have lying around. Just wait until I bring in my Wild Talented steeds. If I win this fight I could easily buy three more custom mounts, choosing the most effective one to ride each fight. I also think a normal light warhorse would be CR1 but a Warhorse with Improved Grapple, Armor Spikes and Proficiency would be easily CR2. Hell, it could easily take down EL3's specialized in grappling: better movement, good hit points, three touch attacks to start grapple and better grapple checks.... If you look at the Pirotess fight: she didn't do a single thing that affected the battle, nothing, it was solely the Hrolf that beat her opponent. If feat customizing would cost credits and/or perhaps raise the CR of allies by 1 would probably help a lot. Otherwise, plan on seeing a lot of customized steeds from me, cause if I may not bring them, maybe my opponent will. Although I won't give any of them Deflect Arrows, I promise. Yeah, I think they should have a CR increase of 1. The only problem with feat swapping, is for those of us who quests for allies can't get the different feats as we don't spend any money on our new allies.
Usurpator 09-30-05, 02:12 AM	Yeah, I think they should have a CR increase of 1. The only problem with feat swapping, is for those of us who quests for allies can't get the different feats as we don't spend any money on our new allies. Well, its not really a problem, I'd rather think of it as an extra choice you have, since you can still get ones by spending money. Quest for it and get it free but without custom feats or buy it and get it with custom feats.
Usurpator 09-30-05, 02:24 AM	Oh, and this is a serious rule question: If I take a pack of similar creatures and want to custom they all the same way (like a subtype of the species xyz), do I have to pay for each one or once for "the design"? You can train up to three creatures of the same type together (see Handle Animal skill). But if you don't train them yourself you pay the trainer the full price for each creature.
Snommelp 09-30-05, 03:05 AM	I've made a new character, Ielenia, and she's got almost 300 gp left to burn. Any ideas?
Usurpator 09-30-05, 03:32 AM	I've made a new character, Ielenia, and she's got almost 300 gp left to burn. Any ideas? A potion of CLW in case you get hit by a summon swarm Potions of protection from X for your AC and against summoned monsters Tattoo of Force Screen for that extra AC
Vathelokai 09-30-05, 04:34 AM	And a tatoo of synesthete, in case you get blinded. Potion of mage armor does the same as force screen and it's cheaper.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-30-05, 04:41 AM	And a tatoo of synesthete, in case you get blinded. Potion of mage armor does the same as force screen and it's cheaper. It doesn't stack with his current armor that he's wearing. Though my greatest suggestion would be to exchange jump for some sort of craft skill. This is a huge money saver for you. Maybe keep 2 skills points in tumble, and tump the rest in either craft weapons/armor/bows. -ToK
Vathelokai 09-30-05, 04:43 AM	I was getting force screen confused with inertial armor...my bad.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-30-05, 04:50 AM	More reccomendations... STR...14 [+2]...(6 pts) DEX...18 [+4]...(10 pts) (16+2 racial) CON...12 [+1]...(6 pts) (14-2 racial) INT...14 [+0]...(6 pts) WIS...14 [+0]...(6 pts) CHA...10 [+0]...(2 pts) This will give you the requisite int bonus you need to craft MW stuff right away. It will give you more skill points and skills. It increases your will saves, and the 13+ int will give you access to other feats. You don't have any charisma based skills, so not sure what the +2 bonus there would have been for. Then again, i'm not sure what kind of future you have in mind, but with your defensive abilities and your penchant for tumble, perhaps the duelist PrC would be open to you. It would definately be a first in CoCo. No one has ever made one. -ToK
TelinArtho 09-30-05, 08:12 AM	You can train up to three creatures of the same type together (see Handle Animal skill). But if you don't train them yourself you pay the trainer the full price for each creature. Where does it say this? If this is true, Vakkor would have been training both his centipedes... I only see it under Rear a Wild Animal: Rear a Wild Animal: To rear an animal means to raise a wild creature from infancy so that it becomes domesticated. A handler can rear as many as three creatures of the same kind at once.
Usurpator 09-30-05, 08:17 AM	Where does it say this? If this is true, Vakkor would have been training both his centipedes... I only see it under Rear a Wild Animal: I see, you are correct, I misremembered it. It does bring up another question though: Most animals that are captured through quests are in effect, Wild Animals. So do you first have to domesticate a Wild Animal before you can learn it tricks, as per 'Rear a Wild Animal'?
TelinArtho 09-30-05, 08:27 AM	No - you essentially "domesticate" it on the quest by defeating it. While a little manufactured in detail, it just makes the transition easier. Plus, unless the questing character wants to push the animal all of the time, they'll have 1-6 weeks before the creature can be used in the arena effectively...
Sunwolf 09-30-05, 08:37 AM	Question on the Gather Information skill: Is it just your modifier that you use times the value in the table to purchase items from the black market or do you do 10 + modifier like is used for the craft/profession skills for earning money? An example in the FAQ would certainly be nice and answer this question quite nicely. I'd like to figure this out to see if this is a skill I want to use. Thanks.
Altaris13 09-30-05, 08:48 AM	Can you ready an action to move?
Vathelokai 09-30-05, 09:14 AM	Can you ready an action to move? The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so). Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it.There ya go.
Usurpator 09-30-05, 09:32 AM	There ya go. Yes, but don't forget: You cannot ready to dodge an incomming attack. Which I always read that you cannot ready an action to move out of the path of a charge or any other kind of melee or ranged attack, which makes sense to me.
TelinArtho 09-30-05, 10:31 AM	I don't know Usurpator - there are readies that you can do to avoid charges and such: Ready to move if the opponent moves to within 10ft of you Ready to move if the opponent attacks with a melee weapon What that line about dodging an attack is for is to specify that you can't do this: Ready to dodge an incoming attack (as in, without actually moving out of the square you are in).
NiQil 09-30-05, 10:32 AM	These two questions seem to have gotten lost in the shuffle, so I will repost them. 1. What is the CoCo position on paladins taking creatures other than warhorses for their mounts when they get the summon mount ability at level 5? The RAW says that the mount is usually a warhorse (or warpony, if small), implying that other creatures are able to be used. But there is nothing in the Rules thread to indicate what other creatures (if any) might be allowed, or what criteria would be used to change the type of mount you have. 2. Say I have a ranger who is two weapon fighting with a sword in his primary hand and a light shield with spikes in his off hand. The light shield entry says that you cannot wield another weapon in that hand, but that they hand is open to carry other items. Is it possible to use a wand in that other hand? Not a wand that you would attack with (like a wand of Magic Missile), because that would make it a weapon, but what about a wand of Cure Light Wounds? As far as I can tell, this is a gray area in the RAW, because wands are weapon-like objects, and you don't "wield" wands like you wield a weapon. You simply hold it and point it in the general direction of where you want the effect to go. Activating a wand is a standard action, so you would not be able to do it in the same round you attack anyway, but is there anything that says you can't activate that wand from the same hand you are holding the shield in?
NiQil 09-30-05, 10:36 AM	I don't know Usurpator - there are readies that you can do to avoid charges and such: Ready to move if the opponent moves to within 10ft of you Ready to move if the opponent attacks with a melee weapon What that line about dodging an attack is for is to specify that you can't do this: Ready to dodge an incoming attack (as in, without actually moving out of the square you are in). Bear in mind also that while the RAW states that you can 5 ft step as part of a ready action, the Rules thread has outlawed that part of a ready action.
Iced 09-30-05, 10:40 AM	if i have a mithril breastplate can i add armor spikes of a different metal?
TelinArtho 09-30-05, 10:49 AM	yes.
Luni 09-30-05, 11:22 AM	I don't know Usurpator - there are readies that you can do to avoid charges and such: Ready to move if the opponent moves to within 10ft of you Ready to move if the opponent attacks with a melee weapon What that line about dodging an attack is for is to specify that you can't do this: Ready to dodge an incoming attack (as in, without actually moving out of the square you are in). I've always interpeted it differently. I've always seen it as your previous examples. I think the reason is for situations like this. Gladiator A casts True Strike. Gladiator B readies an action to move behind cover when Gladiator A shoots. Gladiator A shoots, but his action is interrupted by Gladiator's B ready action. Gladiator B moves behind cover. Gladiator A loses his spell.
NiQil 09-30-05, 11:29 AM	I've always interpeted it differently. I've always seen it as your previous examples. I think the reason is for situations like this. I'd have to go with Telin on this one...because your example, Luni, is a perfect example of why you should use a ready action to move. That cover in the example could be the difference between a hit and miss. The spell is not lost...it still is used...it just has a harder time hitting. It would still hit in most cases...but a bad roll combined with the cover could cause it to miss.
TelinArtho 09-30-05, 12:35 PM	Daeren Stronghammer (will be 5th level) and Nexa (will be 5th level if she wins) are planning on going on a quest next week (October 5th) if both of us advance (October 12th if not). We are petitioning for a questlord. Here's the specifics of the quest: ECL8 Daeren's quest goal is to get a Tan Bag of Tricks Nexa's quest goal is [to be filled in...] The quest is to save a village in the frozen wastes from a marauding Young Adult White Dragon. [@KingUther - I realize you've already been sent the specifics, but since you already have Kraegin/Sdentch's quest - I figured I'd spread the quests around if there's another questlord available.]
Usurpator 09-30-05, 12:47 PM	I'm with Luni, because it is not worth the added headaches of writing tactics that make (ab)use of such options. Forbidding the 5 ft. step together with a readied action stops a lot of such abuses, but not all. - Once someone charges you, you cannot move out of the way anymore. - If someone attacks you or shoots an arrow at you, you better get to cover before he does so, not while he is doing so. Readying gives an advantage for the defender and avoider, and we see plenty of both already. Last week we got an eternal ready loop between Nexa and Greevus last fight, because both gladiators wanted to spoil the other one's action and then immediately get in a good action of their own. Good strategy perhaps, but a headache if everyone starts using it. But until now I haven't seen the ready-to-move on attack strategy, so even if it is allowed, I guess its not a big problem if those who are for it rarely, if ever, make use of it. Currently, it is a non-issue to me, I will not use it because I believe it a headache for everyone involved (especially Pitlords), secondly, because I believe the Rules of Gladius are against it.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-30-05, 12:52 PM	I don't know Usurpator - there are readies that you can do to avoid charges and such: Ready to move if the opponent moves to within 10ft of you Ready to move if the opponent attacks with a melee weapon What that line about dodging an attack is for is to specify that you can't do this: Ready to dodge an incoming attack (as in, without actually moving out of the square you are in). Yes, but that's one of the House Rules in CoCo. What was happening was that battles were becoming so complicated and caused too many problems for pitlords. Otherwise, fights would just become "battle of the readies". You cannot ready (in CoCo only): Move 30' to the left, when he gets 10' of me. etc... to dodge attacks coming in. Like someone charging, or if he moves to take a swing. -ToK
Tellish_of_Ket 09-30-05, 12:57 PM	These two questions seem to have gotten lost in the shuffle, so I will repost them. 1. What is the CoCo position on paladins taking creatures other than warhorses for their mounts when they get the summon mount ability at level 5? The RAW says that the mount is usually a warhorse (or warpony, if small), implying that other creatures are able to be used. But there is nothing in the Rules thread to indicate what other creatures (if any) might be allowed, or what criteria would be used to change the type of mount you have. The criteria is in the DMG. You would have to wait until the appropriate level to summon the critter. ...and you can't use a wand in your light shield hand. But until now I haven't seen the ready-to-move on attack strategy, so even if it is allowed, I guess its not a big problem if those who are for it rarely, if ever, make use of it. Currently, it is a non-issue to me, I will not use it because I believe it a headache for everyone involved (especially Pitlords), secondly, because I believe the Rules of Gladius are against it. I invented the "Pillar Dance" that is the main driving goal towards this house rule. My ready would be "Interrupt his attack with my attack, then 5' step on the corner to get cover from his attack" i would just back up and dance around the pillar gaining benefit of cover while he would have to move around to attack me and be denied cover. When fighting chargers, i would move away behind cover when he got 10' of his charge (too late to change his action) and slowly whittle him down. This caused many many headaches and arguments. So we just decided to nerf the abuse. -ToK -ToK
NiQil 09-30-05, 01:01 PM	The criteria is in the DMG. You would have to wait until the appropriate level to summon the critter. ...and you can't use a wand in your light shield hand. -ToK Care to explain why (with regard to the wand bit)? The issue falls into a gray area of the RAW, so I would love to know why you feel this way. As far as I can tell, there is nothing that says you can or can't. It could go either way. I'd love to hear your reasoning. And I know about the criteria in the DMG for the mount issue, but since that issue isn't outlined in the Rules thread, I wasn't sure if there were credit requirements, or if we were going strictly by the book.
Altaris13 09-30-05, 01:01 PM	So what about situations that are not the opponent attacking: example: I ready to move behind nearest on LOS to enemy to break LOS example: I ready to move towards the enemy on LOS example: I ready to move away from enemy on LOS or what about this: example: I ready to move 30ft in a random direction if I hear casting example: I ready to move 15ft in a horizontal direction away from cover on casting example: I ready a 5ft step behind cover if my enemy is mounted So on and on and on.
Altaris13 09-30-05, 01:02 PM	Care to explain why (with regard to the wand bit)? The issue falls into a gray area of the RAW, so I would love to know why you feel this way. As far as I can tell, there is nothing that says you can or can't. It could go either way. I'd love to hear your reasoning. And I know about the criteria in the DMG for the mount issue, but since that issue isn't outlined in the Rules thread, I wasn't sure if there were credit requirements, or if we were going strictly by the book. A wand is a weapon-like object, which can only be used in a shield-hand if you're using a buckler (iirc.)
NiQil 09-30-05, 01:15 PM	A wand is a weapon-like object, which can only be used in a shield-hand if you're using a buckler (iirc.) The light shield entry only restricts wielding weapons. Says nothing about weapon-like objects. And you don't wield a wand, you hold it and activate it. Hence the reason it falls into a gray area. Now, that being said....if CoCo rules that weapons and weapon-like objects are going to be treated the same in every respect...that's fine. But as it stands, no such RAW rule exists that I am aware of. Heck, weapon-like objects is barely an acknowledged term to begin with, having only been listed in one or two places that I can think of off the top of my head. Or if CoCo wants to rule that to activate a wand, you are, in effect, wielding it, that's fine too. But again, no such RAW rule exists that I am aware of. That is the reason for my question to begin with. There *are no clear-cut rules for a situation like this, that I know of anyway.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-30-05, 01:23 PM	Wands: A wand is a fairly flimsy stick that holds a single spell. Wands have charges; activating a wand releases the spell in it and consumes a charge. Wands use the spell trigger activation method (see Part Two). To activate a wand, you must hold it one hand (or whatever passes for a hand) and speak a single word After a bit of research, it would appear that NiQil is correct. But don't get me wrong, i'm not endorsing it just yet. Just helping to see all sides of the issue first. -ToK
NiQil 09-30-05, 01:30 PM	After a bit of research, it would appear that NiQil is correct. But don't get me wrong, i'm not endorsing it just yet. Just helping to see all sides of the issue first. -ToK If you find something definitive, please link or quote it. I looked all through the SRD, the FAQ, and the articles on the WotC site, and I couldn't find anything clear cut one way or the other....nor could I find anything remotely close to the situation. The reason I asked initially is that I had an idea for a ranger who used Two-Weapon Fighting with a sword and light shield with spikes, but Two-Weapon Fighting is sorta counterproductive to being able to heal on the fly, so I went looking for the rules on using a wand in the off hand that is wielding the light shield. And I ran into this big, gray void known as "undefined." LOL
Altaris13 09-30-05, 01:41 PM	There is precedent for a wand being considered a weapon. Normally, you can only use one wand at a time. With the feat 'dual wand wielder' you can use a second wand in the same round at the cost of charges. Said feat requires two-weapon fighting. Again, iirc. The dual wand wielder feat is not SRD, so I cannot verify it for certain. (Book is at home.)
NiQil 09-30-05, 01:47 PM	There is precedent for a wand being considered a weapon. Normally, you can only use one wand at a time. With the feat 'dual wand wielder' you can use a second wand in the same round at the cost of charges. Said feat requires two-weapon fighting. Again, iirc. The dual wand wielder feat is not SRD, so I cannot verify it for certain. (Book is at home.) If it's (the feat) not SRD, then it isn't Core, and shouldn't be considered here, since we operate with Core rules. But, to use your example, what if I was using a wand of cure light wounds, and a wand of detect magic? I highly doubt anyone would consider either of those to be weapons. And so we get back to the same issue. It's a gray area.
Altaris13 09-30-05, 01:50 PM	I disagree. It is Core, if not used in the CoCo for not being in the SRD. It is from a complete book, and as such is from WotC and therefore core. And yes, I would consider the example wands as weapons-like objects, and therefore subjected to the rules of weapons. You don't just 'activate' a wand. You "flourish" it, or "brandy" it about, or what have you. You "wield" a wand, just like you "wield" weapons.
NiQil 09-30-05, 01:59 PM	I disagree. It is Core, if not used in the CoCo for not being in the SRD. It is from a complete book, and as such is from WotC and therefore core. And yes, I would consider the example wands as weapons-like objects, and therefore subjected to the rules of weapons. You don't just 'activate' a wand. You "flourish" it, or "brandy" it about, or what have you. You "wield" a wand, just like you "wield" weapons. I think you and I have a different definition of what is core. By WotC's own rules, there are only 3 core books. PHB, DMG, and MM. That's it. Anything beyond that, isn't, per them. I also happen to consider the XPH core. You, obviously, also consider the Complete books to be core. But in terms of this arena, the only things that should be considered core, are the three books that have the "core" descriptor on their covers (the three I mentioned), Deities and Demigods (since it's material is used in the SRD), and the XPH (for the same reason). Complete Books have no bearing here in CoCo. As to the wand....look at the quote Tellish provided. It is the same as the one in the SRD. You do, in fact, just activate it. Hold it, point it in the general direction of where you want the effect, and say the command word. That's it. End of list. And weapons are not weapon-like objects. Weapon-like objects are not weapons. They may be treated the same in some respects, but they are not the same. And there is nothing mentioned about weapon-like objects being allowed or restricted in this situation. So again, we go back to my big, gray void. :)
Altaris13 09-30-05, 03:05 PM	They may be treated the same in some respects, but they are not the same. You said it yourself.
NiQil 09-30-05, 03:08 PM	You said it yourself. Correct, I did. They may be treated the same in SOME respects. The core rules do not indicate this is one of them, nor does it indicate that it is not one of them. It makes no mention one way or the other. So....once more into the void.
SoulLord 09-30-05, 03:20 PM	If it's (the feat) not SRD, then it isn't Core, and shouldn't be considered here, since we operate with Core rules. But, to use your example, what if I was using a wand of cure light wounds, and a wand of detect magic? I highly doubt anyone would consider either of those to be weapons. And so we get back to the same issue. It's a gray area. How about an undead damaged by the cure light wounds of the wand? I'm sure he would consider it to be a weapon
Altaris13 09-30-05, 03:24 PM	Correct, I did. They may be treated the same in SOME respects. The core rules do not indicate this is one of them, nor does it indicate that it is not one of them. It makes no mention one way or the other. So....once more into the void. OK, look at this way: you can draw a wand as a move action or as part of a move action. Just like a weapon. If the difficulty is the same here, would not the same thought process apply to using it in conjunction with a shield? EDIT: Good point SoulLord.
NiQil 09-30-05, 03:29 PM	How about an undead damaged by the cure light wounds of the wand? I'm sure he would consider it to be a weapon In that situation, yes. But if both wands were to be used on myself, then they wouldn't be. Again...it's a gray, undefined area. Which is why I am trying to get a ruling from the Elders and Cat (when he comes back). The issue is not clearly defined anywhere....this will almost definitely have to be a CoCo houserule. Because if it's not defined beforehand, then when it actually comes up, someone is going to get bent out of shape when either A)I use the tactic successfully with no RAW support that it's allowed, or B) I am not allowed to use the tactic with no RAW support for why it's not allowed. If I can get it clarified beforehand as to how CoCo wants to handle it, then it won't be an issue in the future, and will save many headaches down the road.
NiQil 09-30-05, 03:36 PM	OK, look at this way: you can draw a wand as a move action or as part of a move action. Just like a weapon. If the difficulty is the same here, would not the same thought process apply to using it in conjunction with a shield? EDIT: Good point SoulLord. That's the point. You can draw it like a weapon. Yes. I will readily agree to that. But you are not drawing a weapon. You are drawing a weapon-like object. The use of said object is entirely different. Wielding a weapong requires a lot of movement for your shield arm...more than the shield will allow, hence the restriction. A wand, on the other hand, merely requires you to hold it and point it in the general direction that you want the effect to go (in my example of a clw wand, at yourself), and then use the command word. Hardly the same thing. Now, SoulLord brought up the point that wands can be used as weapons. Yes they can. But that does not inherently make them weapons. I am not advocating being able to carry around a wand of magic missiles in your shield hand (although, by the RAW, this would again fall into the gray area, since a wand is not a weapon). Wands are weapon-like objects, not weapons. They can be used to hurt things, true, but they are not defined as weapons. I can use a bucket of water to hurt someone (by drowning them in it), but that does not make it a weapon. We can go on and on about how an individual type of wand can be used to hurt a certain thing or creature. That's not the point. The point is, using a wand in your shield hand is not ruled on one way or the other by the RAW. This is what I am trying to get a ruling on.
SoulLord 09-30-05, 03:44 PM	In that situation, yes. But if both wands were to be used on myself, then they wouldn't be. Again...it's a gray, undefined area. Which is why I am trying to get a ruling from the Elders and Cat (when he comes back). The issue is not clearly defined anywhere....this will almost definitely have to be a CoCo houserule. Because if it's not defined beforehand, then when it actually comes up, someone is going to get bent out of shape when either A)I use the tactic successfully with no RAW support that it's allowed, or B) I am not allowed to use the tactic with no RAW support for why it's not allowed. If I can get it clarified beforehand as to how CoCo wants to handle it, then it won't be an issue in the future, and will save many headaches down the road. By that same Logic you could also use a sword on yourself but not for that it would stop being treated as a weapon.
NiQil 09-30-05, 03:51 PM	By that same Logic you could also use a sword on yourself but not for that it would stop being treated as a weapon. Not true, because a sword is defined as a weapon by the RAW. A wand is defined as a weapon-like object. Just because something can damage something, that does not make it a weapon. But the RAW defining something as a weapon makes it a weapon, regardless of how it is used. Drowning someone is water does not make the water a weapon. Holding a longsword to your own throat still makes the longsword a weapon, because the RAW defines a longsword as a weapon, while it makes no such determination about water. Same thing with wands. Wands are not defined as weapons. I might be able to use one to hurt something, but that doesn't make it a weapon as defined by the RAW. It still makes them weapon-like objects. And yet again, we end up back at my big gray void of "Undefined."
Altaris13 09-30-05, 04:05 PM	Only because you continue to beat something to death that should be obvious. Wands = weapons for all intents and purposes. RAI are obvious on this, and RAW lead you to that thought process UNLESS you are deliberately trying to attain a different ruling to your benefit, which seems to be the case.
NiQil 09-30-05, 04:13 PM	Only because you continue to beat something to death that should be obvious. Wands = weapons for all intents and purposes. RAI are obvious on this, and RAW lead you to that thought process UNLESS you are deliberately trying to attain a different ruling to your benefit, which seems to be the case. I see no RAI here one way or the other either. If Wands are supposed to be treated as weapons, why are they not defined as such? Why call them weapon-like objects instead of weapons? Now...do I have an opinion on how this should be handled? Of course. I've already stated it. But I have also stated that it is not defined one way or the other. Your obvious intepretations of RAI is only obvious if you view it in one way...and not so obvious if you view it in another. I can live with it being defined either way. That's the reason I am asking for a ruling. But, by the RAW, it IS NOT DEFINED. To state otherwise is wrong, unless you can prove otherwise with a source. There is no RAW to say that treating them as weapons is correct, and there is no RAW to say that treating them as weapons is incorrect. It is NOT DEFINED. There is no RAW to say that wielding a wand is the same as wielding a weapon, and there is no RAW to that wielding a wand is not the same as wielding a weapon. Again, it is NOT DEFINED.
King Uther 09-30-05, 04:16 PM	I could make a wand sheath and wield it as a weapon.
Altaris13 09-30-05, 04:18 PM	Why else would the refer to wands as 'weapon-like objects?' Wands are the only items (iirc) that they do this for. You cannot really call a wand a weapon because though it is a weapon in the truest intent of the word, it is not a weapon in the factual sense of the word.
NiQil 09-30-05, 04:24 PM	Why else would the refer to wands as 'weapon-like objects?' Wands are the only items (iirc) that they do this for. You cannot really call a wand a weapon because though it is a weapon in the truest intent of the word, it is not a weapon in the factual sense of the word. Actually, rods and staffs are also treated as weapon-like objects. And what you just said is exactly the reason I am asking for a ruling. "Because they are not a weapon in the factual sense of the word." What I am trying to establish is how we want to treat weapon-like objects. Let me put another spin on it. Suppose the same dual wielder (sword and light shield with spikes) was a fighter/wizard, and the item he wanted to hold in his hand was a metamagic rod. Clearly not a weapon, but defined as a weapon-like object. So again...would he be able to do so?
SauroGrenom 09-30-05, 05:35 PM	NiQil, Nice spot check on noticing that little tiny hole in the rules. Must have been a DC20 check at least. My take on the issue is to infer from the rules listed in the equipment section of the SRD. Shield, Light, Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield’s weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it. Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round.. The rules obviously didn't expect those who are using bucklers to be doing anything other than attacking with a weapon, but the oversight of that is neither here nor there. We can see that the entry for the Light Shield allows you to carry objects in your shield hand, but you are specifically prohibited from using weapons in that hand. The Bucker on the other hand specifically allows weapons to be used in that hand, but does not mention that you can carry anything in that hand. If we are strict rules lawyers, then you cannot carry anything in your hand that has a Buckler strapped to the arm, but that would be ridiculous. It is reasonable to infer that since the section of the SRD that covers the use of shields only mentions attacking and holding as available for the shield hand, that attacking is the expected use of the object in the shield hand. If we are willing to make the reasonable assumption that in the interpretation of this small slice of the SRD attacking is equivalent to a “use”, then prohibitions against attack are prohibitions against use. Since attacks with the same hand as a light shield are strictly forbidden in the rules and since the expected use of the shield hand is to attack, it is reasonable to infer that you cannot use anything in your shield hand that is holding a light shield. You can certainly hold a light weapon in that hand but not attack with it. You can hold a potion in that hand but you cannot quaff it. You can hold a wondrous item in that hand but not activate it, even if it is use activated. Same goes for wands. If the CoCo is willing to allow any of those uses, then all of them should be allowed. Using a scroll is an interesting case, because you hold it in the shield hand. But the actual activation of it is reading it, and I don’t suppose that the act of reading the scroll requires that the shield hand do anything except hold the item so it is allowed. Regardless, if should be noted that if you have a buckler and are attacking with your shield hand, then you loose your shield bonus to AC. If our assumption that use and attack are equivalent is followed, then any use for the shield hand results in the loss of the Shield bonus. Such effects are clearly noted in the entry for the buckler with regard to an attack, but I think they should also apply to other uses of the shield hand if they are allowed. SauroGrenom
NiQil 09-30-05, 06:36 PM	NiQil, Nice spot check on noticing that little tiny hole in the rules. Must have been a DC20 check at least. My take on the issue is to infer from the rules listed in the equipment section of the SRD. The rules obviously didn't expect those who are using bucklers to be doing anything other than attacking with a weapon, but the oversight of that is neither here nor there. We can see that the entry for the Light Shield allows you to carry objects in your shield hand, but you are specifically prohibited from using weapons in that hand. The Bucker on the other hand specifically allows weapons to be used in that hand, but does not mention that you can carry anything in that hand. If we are strict rules lawyers, then you cannot carry anything in your hand that has a Buckler strapped to the arm, but that would be ridiculous. It is reasonable to infer that since the section of the SRD that covers the use of shields only mentions attacking and holding as available for the shield hand, that attacking is the expected use of the object in the shield hand. If we are willing to make the reasonable assumption that in the interpretation of this small slice of the SRD attacking is equivalent to a “use”, then prohibitions against attack are prohibitions against use. Since attacks with the same hand as a light shield are strictly forbidden in the rules and since the expected use of the shield hand is to attack, it is reasonable to infer that you cannot use anything in your shield hand that is holding a light shield. You can certainly hold a light weapon in that hand but not attack with it. You can hold a potion in that hand but you cannot quaff it. You can hold a wondrous item in that hand but not activate it, even if it is use activated. Same goes for wands. If the CoCo is willing to allow any of those uses, then all of them should be allowed. Using a scroll is an interesting case, because you hold it in the shield hand. But the actual activation of it is reading it, and I don’t suppose that the act of reading the scroll requires that the shield hand do anything except hold the item so it is allowed. Regardless, if should be noted that if you have a buckler and are attacking with your shield hand, then you loose your shield bonus to AC. If our assumption that use and attack are equivalent is followed, then any use for the shield hand results in the loss of the Shield bonus. Such effects are clearly noted in the entry for the buckler with regard to an attack, but I think they should also apply to other uses of the shield hand if they are allowed. SauroGrenom And that's exactly the reason I want to get it out in the open and get a ruling before it actually gets used. It is a blind spot in the rules that needs to be addressed. Do I think that we should be able to use wands in the shield hand? As much as I would like to, I would probably err on the side of balance and say no, we shouldn't. If we can...great...gives me that many more options. If not, not biggie. But it is a definite gray area that needs addressed. The character that originally spawned my search in this area has already had a workaround applied to it that will essentially allow it to do the same thing that I had originally set out to do, just by using different equipment and a slightly different feat selection. But the issue still needs to be addressed.
Snommelp 10-01-05, 02:27 AM	Apart from Sleep, what low-level offensive spells require Will saves? I can't think of anything, but I don't have my books with me to check right now.
Luni 10-01-05, 02:43 AM	Apart from Sleep, what low-level offensive spells require Will saves? I can't think of anything, but I don't have my books with me to check right now. Off the top of my head. Hold Person - Level 2 Cleric/Level 3 Wizard. Color Spray - Level 1 Wizard Doom - Level 1 Cleric Cause Fear - Level 1 Cleric
Vathelokai 10-01-05, 04:13 AM	Apart from Sleep, what low-level offensive spells require Will saves? I can't think of anything, but I don't have my books with me to check right now. Arcane: daze charm person hypnotism sleep color spray detect thoughts daze monster hideous laughter hypnotic pattern minor image pyrotechnics Divine: inflict minor wounds bane command doom inflict light wounds calm emotions enthrall hold person inflict moderate wounds silence zone of truth
sloisel 10-01-05, 05:09 AM	I'm baaack. Are we having problems getting people to stick around long enough to reach ECL6+ or something? It seems like there are hardly any ECL6+ characters fighting in the arena. Monster fights are cute, but they're not the reason why I like the arena. Sébastien Loisel
Usurpator 10-01-05, 05:29 AM	I'm baaack. Are we having problems getting people to stick around long enough to reach ECL6+ or something? It seems like there are hardly any ECL6+ characters fighting in the arena. Monster fights are cute, but they're not the reason why I like the arena. Sébastien Loisel I guess it takes a lot of time to reach ECL6+, assuming you lose half and win half of your fights, you need 5,5 fights to reach next level. That's 17 weeks for ECL6+, assuming a single character fights every week, which they usually don't.
Vathelokai 10-01-05, 05:42 AM	Psionic Restraints: Each of the various psionic restraints is an iron cuff that cunningly locks around the wrist (DC 27 Open Lock check). The cuff limits the total number of power points a psionic creature wearing it can use in 1 round (regardless of the creature’s total power point reserve), or completely damps the ability to use psionics. All types of psionic restraints prevent the free manifesting of powers. What exactly does the last sentence mean? Why would the restrains prohibit you from using more then 3 pp in a round, if you cannot use powers at all? Another related question: What type of action would it be to put someone in restraints (psionic or manacles)? Grapple, pin, hogtie? Can you even do it in combat?
Usurpator 10-01-05, 08:44 AM	Question: Is going on quests (especially those above your ECL) actually bad for your wallet and relative power in the Arena? If an ECL 3 character goes on a ECL 3 quest, he gets 3600 (3 * 900 + 33%) XP and 3600 (3 * 900 + 33 %) gp. If he manages to keep all the treasure that he finds, he will have earned 1 gp. per XP, the same as gladiators in the arena do. If an ECL 3 character goes on a ECL 5 quest, he gets 7200 (3 * 1800 + 33%) XP and 6400 (3 * 1600 + 33%) gp. If he manages to keep or sell all the treasure that he finds, he will have earned 0,88 gp. per XP, 1125 gp. less than gladiators in the arena do. The above assumes you can keep and use all treasure you find, if you have to sell a portion at half price the ratio will turn out even worse (and I am not even speaking about losing items....). Since your relative strength when fighting opponents on the same ECL is partially based on the amount of goodies you can buy and thus the treasure you have amassed, most questers will be actually worse off than regular gladiators: they end up with less treasure. Since there is a danger of dying, and you pay credits to quest, shouldn't it be the reverse? Especially since the Quest FAQ says: Finally, a quest gives greater rewards than an arena fight because you risk being killed, or lose items on your quest, but many find the treasure too tempting to stay at home. If the +33% XP bonus on quests is dropped, then the quote will at least hold some truth.
Altaris13 10-01-05, 11:31 AM	So what about situations that are not the opponent attacking: example: I ready to move behind nearest on LOS to enemy to break LOS example: I ready to move towards the enemy on LOS example: I ready to move away from enemy on LOS or what about this: example: I ready to move 30ft in a random direction if I hear casting example: I ready to move 15ft in a horizontal direction away from cover on casting example: I ready a 5ft step behind cover if my enemy is mounted So on and on and on. Come on guys and gals. I really need an answer on this issue.
Luni 10-01-05, 11:47 AM	Come on guys and gals. I really need an answer on this issue. So what about situations that are not the opponent attacking: example: I ready to move behind nearest on LOS to enemy to break LOS example: I ready to move towards the enemy on LOS example: I ready to move away from enemy on LOS These are fine. or what about this: example: I ready to move 30ft in a random direction if I hear casting. example: I ready to move 15ft in a horizontal direction away from cover on casting Personally, I'd consider spellcasting to be an attack. example: I ready a 5ft step behind cover if my enemy is mounted [color=red]This one is fine] So on and on and on. This is just my personal opinion.
KerlanRayne 10-01-05, 12:03 PM	What exactly does the last sentence mean? Why would the restrains prohibit you from using more then 3 pp in a round, if you cannot use powers at all?Holdover from 3.0 they had Talents which were like psionic Cantrips. They were manifested for free a certain number of times per day. KerlanRayne
Usurpator 10-01-05, 12:04 PM	example: I ready to move behind nearest on LOS to enemy to break LOS :thumbsup: example: I ready to move towards the enemy on LOS :thumbsup: example: I ready to move away from enemy on LOS :thumbsup: or what about this: example: I ready to move 30ft in a random direction if I hear casting :thumbsdow example: I ready to move 15ft in a horizontal direction away from cover on casting :thumbsdow If the intention was to foil the spell by breaking LOS or exceeding range, I would not allow it. You can react 'after' the casting with a move, but that will only help against spells with casting times greater than one action. You can ready many actions to foil spellcasting, such as attacks, counterspells or using items or spells to break LOS, just not movement. This is precisely why Nexa used obscuring mist instead of movement in her fight with Greevus to foil his magic missiles, while she could have used movement just as easily to the same effect. example: I ready a 5ft step behind cover if my enemy is mounted :confused: Since you cannot ready 5 ft. steps, only a move of 5 ft., it cannot be done. What are you trying to do here, since the triggering condition is a bit weird?
Tellish_of_Ket 10-01-05, 01:56 PM	Question: Is going on quests (especially those above your ECL) actually bad for your wallet and relative power in the Arena? If an ECL 3 character goes on a ECL 3 quest, he gets 3600 (3 * 900 + 33%) XP and 3600 (3 * 900 + 33 %) gp. If he manages to keep all the treasure that he finds, he will have earned 1 gp. per XP, the same as gladiators in the arena do. If an ECL 3 character goes on a ECL 5 quest, he gets 7200 (3 * 1800 + 33%) XP and 6400 (3 * 1600 + 33%) gp. If he manages to keep or sell all the treasure that he finds, he will have earned 0,88 gp. per XP, 1125 gp. less than gladiators in the arena do. The above assumes you can keep and use all treasure you find, if you have to sell a portion at half price the ratio will turn out even worse (and I am not even speaking about losing items....). Since your relative strength when fighting opponents on the same ECL is partially based on the amount of goodies you can buy and thus the treasure you have amassed, most questers will be actually worse off than regular gladiators: they end up with less treasure. Since there is a danger of dying, and you pay credits to quest, shouldn't it be the reverse? Especially since the Quest FAQ says: If the +33% XP bonus on quests is dropped, then the quote will at least hold some truth. I'm actually going to agree with you. I found this out the hard way. My two characters, Krunch and Pale-Rider (APL 5), began a quest and since we kick so much butt :P , King and I agreed to make it an EL 7 quest. It would be tougher, but the rewards greater. At the end i was staring at the screen agape. I thought King forgot to give me half of my xp and gp...turns out, exactly what you stated happend. I got a WHOLE lot less than what i bargained for. Even though i nearly risked death (twice), i came away with less. That was definately a lesson learned. -ToK
Usurpator 10-01-05, 02:11 PM	Even though i nearly risked death (twice), i came away with less. That was definately a lesson learned. I propose a new Quest motto: "Less risk, more reward!" :P Just take a missions below your APL next time and you end up with relatively more money. At the moment equal or higher EL Quests are good for a speedy level bump at the cost of getting behind money-wise. On a side note: you lose your profession and craft income as well during a quest...
Tellish_of_Ket 10-01-05, 02:18 PM	I propose a new Quest motto: "Less risk, more reward!" :P Just take a missions below your APL next time and you end up with relatively more money. At the moment equal or higher EL Quests are good for a speedy level bump at the cost of getting behind money-wise. On a side note: you lose your profession and craft income as well during a quest... It was worse for me, because i had two people on one quest, which means i had to "split the pot". :( I don't think i'll be doing that anymore. -ToK
SauroGrenom 10-01-05, 02:59 PM	Duergar have a psi like ability to cast expansion as a 3rd level manifester. Can this ability be augmented? Specifically Expansion allows an extra 2 pp to be spent to increase the durration to 1min/level. If the Duregar supplies the extra 2pp, can this ability have an expaned durration? If not, then what if the Duregar has the ability to manifest powers? Can he then increase the durration of the power?
Gonbow 10-01-05, 03:04 PM	So what about situations that are not the opponent attacking: example: I ready to move behind nearest on LOS to enemy to break LOS example: I ready to move towards the enemy on LOS example: I ready to move away from enemy on LOS or what about this: example: I ready to move 30ft in a random direction if I hear casting example: I ready to move 15ft in a horizontal direction away from cover on casting example: I ready a 5ft step behind cover if my enemy is mounted So on and on and on. All of these are fine. A ready action must have a concrete trigger and something that you can do with a standard action or less, which all of these have. The last two are borderline because one doesn't specify the time accurately enough (Before? After? Any casting or just that of your opponent?) and the one after it is miss the 'if I see', but thats nit-picking really, both are understandable as 'when this happens, do this'. Duergar have a psi like ability to cast expansion as a 3rd level manifester. Can this ability be augmented? Specifically Expansion allows an extra 2 pp to be spent to increase the durration to 1min/level. If the Duregar supplies the extra 2pp, can this ability have an expaned durration? If not, then what if the Duregar has the ability to manifest powers? Can he then increase the durration of the power? Psi-like powers are automatically augmented as high as the ML that they come with. Determine the Duergar's ML and you have the amount of 'free' PPs that you have to augment with (In this case, minimum ML to augment in this way is 3). If the intention was to foil the spell by breaking LOS or exceeding range, I would not allow it. You can react 'after' the casting with a move, but that will only help against spells with casting times greater than one action. You can ready many actions to foil spellcasting, such as attacks, counterspells or using items or spells to break LOS, just not movement. This is precisely why Nexa used obscuring mist instead of movement in her fight with Greevus to foil his magic missiles, while she could have used movement just as easily to the same effect. Readied actions happen -before- whatever triggers them. Delayed actions happen -after- whatever triggers them. You can use a readied action to break LOS in response to someone starting to cast a spell, and thusly make them 'waste' that spell. (Though waste is relative, certain spells won't be affected by this too much, like fireballs or buffs)
sloisel 10-01-05, 03:44 PM	I guess it takes a lot of time to reach ECL6+, assuming you lose half and win half of your fights, you need 5,5 fights to reach next level. That's 17 weeks for ECL6+, assuming a single character fights every week, which they usually don't. Maybe in a few thousand years when the xp/gp tables are revised they should be tweaked up to take this into account. Sébastien Loisel
Begferdeth 10-01-05, 04:27 PM	On this "ready a move action thing", I cant see any problems with it. You are basically giving up your move action for the turn, so that you can "dive for cover." If everybody starts readying move actions on casting and such, I can see a lot of wizards starting to take feats like Still Spell and Silent Spell... you dont know their casting, so you just stand like a lump while the wizzie blows you away :) Or, they just ready to cast their spells when the other guy moves. If we get a bunch of "ready loops", maybe we could house rule up a will save of something, to see if your nerve breaks during the standoff. First guy to lose his nerve draws, just like a cowboy! :D I dont think the "cover dance" thing that I heard mentioned would work. You could interrupt his attack with your attack... which is just delaying your initiative to just before his. But you couldnt also do the 5' step, because thats another action, even if it is a free one. And readying a 5' step to get away from an attack, well... the opponent gets a free 5' step too, so I would say if you move to someplace he cant hit you from, then he would just follow you for free and then pound you.
Begferdeth 10-01-05, 04:30 PM	You can get to a thing called 'character map' by going to the start button, then all programs, accessories, then system. You can cut and paste (or learn the key stroke for) an umlaut from there. If this is the only problem anybody saw, I must be getting better at doing this!
NiQil 10-01-05, 05:19 PM	On this "ready a move action thing", I cant see any problems with it. You are basically giving up your move action for the turn, so that you can "dive for cover." If everybody starts readying move actions on casting and such, I can see a lot of wizards starting to take feats like Still Spell and Silent Spell... you dont know their casting, so you just stand like a lump while the wizzie blows you away :) Or, they just ready to cast their spells when the other guy moves. If we get a bunch of "ready loops", maybe we could house rule up a will save of something, to see if your nerve breaks during the standoff. First guy to lose his nerve draws, just like a cowboy! :D I dont think the "cover dance" thing that I heard mentioned would work. You could interrupt his attack with your attack... which is just delaying your initiative to just before his. But you couldnt also do the 5' step, because thats another action, even if it is a free one. And readying a 5' step to get away from an attack, well... the opponent gets a free 5' step too, so I would say if you move to someplace he cant hit you from, then he would just follow you for free and then pound you. Just as a point of clarification....per the Rules thread CoCo has disallowed the use of a 5 ft step as a part of a ready action.
NiQil 10-01-05, 11:04 PM	After looking at the whole manifester level/credit thing with regard to powerstones and tattoos, I think I have found a serious flaw. Let me provide an example. A normal ML 1 powerstone of Vigor provides 5 hp for 1 min and costs 25 x 1 (power level) x 1 (ML) = 25 gp. A normal ML 3 powerstone of Vigor provides 5 hp for 3 min and costs 25 x 1 (power level) x 2 (ML) = 75 gp. An augmented (2 PP) ML 1 powerstone of Vigor provides 15 hp for 1 min and costs 25 x 1 (power level) x 1 (ML) = 25 gp. An augmented (2 PP) ML 3 powerstone of Vigor provides 15 hp for 3 min and costs 25 x 1 (power level) x 1 (ML) = 75 gp. I do not think that the RAW provides for augmented powerstones/tattoos for purchase because there is no cost difference according to their own formula. This works out great for crafting your own powerstones, since the cost doesn't increase to augment. This also seems to work when compared to the fact that magic has it's effects go up based on the user level, and not just the duration like psionics does. Here in CoCo, we allow the purchase of augmented powerstones by increasing the ML and for credits, and that kinda screws with the pricing formula, since the formula wasn't meant to take into account augmentation (just higher manifester levels). By our houserules, for every 2 manifester levels we add to a powerstone, it also increases the power level by 1. A CoCo ML 1 powerstone of Vigor provides 5 hp for 1 min and costs 25 x 1 (power level) x 1 (ML) = 25 gp. A CoCo ML 3 powerstone of Vigor provides 15 hp for 3 min and costs 25 x 2 (power level) x 3 (ML) = 150 gp, as well as 1 credit for it being 2 ML's higher than what it would normally sell for. This is the attempt to make powerstone cost comparable to scroll cost of equivalent level. The problem here, is what if I want an ML 2 powerstone of Vigor? I can get a CoCo one that gives me 10 hp for 2 min and costs 25 x 1 power level) x 2 (ML) = 50 gp, and not have to spend credits. With our houserule, we are, in effect, giving away free augmentation by the buyer just not taking that last step and taking it to something that would require credits. All they are paying is the additional cost for that extra ML (which is the same as a normal powerstone of the same ML), and they are getting the added bonus of augmentation for free. Somehow this doesn't seem correct. I think this houserule should be reexamined.
Vathelokai 10-01-05, 11:45 PM	I'm going to have to agree with NiQil. On another note... Dimension Swap Psychoportation (Teleportation) Level: Nomad 2, psychic warrior 2 Display: Visual Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Targets: You and one ally in range, or any two allies in range; see text Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless, object) Power Resistance: Yes (harmless, object) Power Points: 3 You instantly swap positions between your current position and that of a designated ally in range. Alternatively, you can swap the positions of any two allies in range. This power affects creatures of Large or smaller size. You can bring along objects, but not other creatures.If I were to make a tatoo of this power, would it be 'personal', and thus cost double? If it wasn't personal, would it have to be a crawling tatoo?
Luni 10-01-05, 11:50 PM	After looking at the whole manifester level/credit thing with regard to powerstones and tattoos, I think I have found a serious flaw. Let me provide an example. A normal ML 1 powerstone of Vigor provides 5 hp for 1 min and costs 25 x 1 (power level) x 1 (ML) = 25 gp. A normal ML 3 powerstone of Vigor provides 5 hp for 3 min and costs 25 x 1 (power level) x 2 (ML) = 75 gp. An augmented (2 PP) ML 1 powerstone of Vigor provides 15 hp for 1 min and costs 25 x 1 (power level) x 1 (ML) = 25 gp. An augmented (2 PP) ML 3 powerstone of Vigor provides 15 hp for 3 min and costs 25 x 1 (power level) x 1 (ML) = 75 gp. I do not think that the RAW provides for augmented powerstones/tattoos for purchase because there is no cost difference according to their own formula. This works out great for crafting your own powerstones, since the cost doesn't increase to augment. This also seems to work when compared to the fact that magic has it's effects go up based on the user level, and not just the duration like psionics does. Here in CoCo, we allow the purchase of augmented powerstones by increasing the ML and for credits, and that kinda screws with the pricing formula, since the formula wasn't meant to take into account augmentation (just higher manifester levels). By our houserules, for every 2 manifester levels we add to a powerstone, it also increases the power level by 1. A CoCo ML 1 powerstone of Vigor provides 5 hp for 1 min and costs 25 x 1 (power level) x 1 (ML) = 25 gp. A CoCo ML 3 powerstone of Vigor provides 15 hp for 3 min and costs 25 x 2 (power level) x 3 (ML) = 150 gp, as well as 1 credit for it being 2 ML's higher than what it would normally sell for. This is the attempt to make powerstone cost comparable to scroll cost of equivalent level. The problem here, is what if I want an ML 2 powerstone of Vigor? I can get a CoCo one that gives me 10 hp for 2 min and costs 25 x 1 power level) x 2 (ML) = 50 gp, and not have to spend credits. With our houserule, we are, in effect, giving away free augmentation by the buyer just not taking that last step and taking it to something that would require credits. All they are paying is the additional cost for that extra ML (which is the same as a normal powerstone of the same ML), and they are getting the added bonus of augmentation for free. Somehow this doesn't seem correct. I think this houserule should be reexamined. It only costs credits if you want a stone of EL higher then your ECL +2. A level 5 Stone of Vigor Augmented for 375 gp is fair to every level 3 gladiator. What is wrong with free Augmentation? Are Psionic Powers so vastly superior to Wizard/Cleric Spells, that we should limit their use on stones? So you can get +10 hp/ 50 gp with an augmented Stone of Vigor [ML 2]. I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say NiQil.
Vathelokai 10-02-05, 12:54 AM	I'm looking for a permenant magic item that bestows endure elements. I know of none, so I'm thinking of making a ring of EE. I'm guessing that it would have the same cost as a ring of Featherfall (2200gp) and cost 5 credits. The blackmarket says I must have the item looked over by an elder/gm...So could one respond? Anyone know of a EE item (other then potions)?
SoulLord 10-02-05, 12:55 AM	quick confirmation. Can a wizard scribe a scroll with his feats without paying extra credit cost? empowered shocking grasp, sonic fireball etc..
TelinArtho 10-02-05, 12:58 AM	@Soullord - yes as long as it falls under ECL+2 (which it will...) @Vath - I know of no item that gives it as the only power. I believe the Boots of the Winterlands bestow a similar effect (though with other benefits)
KerlanRayne 10-02-05, 01:50 AM	After looking at the whole manifester level/credit thing with regard to powerstones and tattoos, I think I have found a serious flaw. Let me provide an example. A normal ML 1 powerstone of Vigor provides 5 hp for 1 min and costs 25 x 1 (power level) x 1 (ML) = 25 gp. A normal ML 3 powerstone of Vigor provides 5 hp for 3 min and costs 25 x 1 (power level) x 2 3 (ML) = 75 gp. These are correct. An augmented (2 PP) ML 1 powerstone of Vigor provides 15 hp for 1 min and costs 25 x 1 (power level) x 1 (ML) = 25 gp. This is not correct. An augmented (2 PP) ML 3 powerstone of Vigor provides 15 hp for 3 min and costs 25 x 1 (power level) x 1 3 (ML) = 75 gp. This is correct normally, but the CoCo has house ruled differently. I do not think that the RAW provides for augmented powerstones/tattoos for purchase because there is no cost difference according to their own formula. This works out great for crafting your own powerstones, since the cost doesn't increase to augment. This also seems to work when compared to the fact that magic has it's effects go up based on the user level, and not just the duration like psionics does. Here in CoCo, we allow the purchase of augmented powerstones by increasing the ML and for credits, and that kinda screws with the pricing formula, since the formula wasn't meant to take into account augmentation (just higher manifester levels).This is wrong, you don't pay credits for augmentation, also the house rule doesn't determine Manifester Level, it's the Augmentation that determines the Manifester Level By our houserules, for every 2 manifester levels we add to a powerstone, it also increases the power level by 1. A CoCo ML 1 powerstone of Vigor provides 5 hp for 1 min and costs 25 x 1 (power level) x 1 (ML) = 25 gp. A CoCo ML 3 powerstone of Vigor provides 15 hp for 3 min and costs 25 x 2 (power level) x 3 (ML) = 150 gp, as well as 1 credit for it being 2 ML's higher than what it would normally sell for. This is the attempt to make powerstone cost comparable to scroll cost of equivalent level. The problem here, is what if I want an ML 2 powerstone of Vigor? I can get a CoCo one that gives me 10 hp for 2 min and costs 25 x 1 power level) x 2 (ML) = 50 gp, and not have to spend credits. With our houserule, we are, in effect, giving away free augmentation by the buyer just not taking that last step and taking it to something that would require credits. All they are paying is the additional cost for that extra ML (which is the same as a normal powerstone of the same ML), and they are getting the added bonus of augmentation for free. Somehow this doesn't seem correct. I think this houserule should be reexamined.You have this all wrong. For every power pont spent, it raises the Manifester Level by 1. For a 15 HP Vigor stone you would have to spend 3 pp and have a minimum manifester level of 3. In psionics, you can only spend a number of Power Points less than or equal to your manifester level. This means if the stone is Manifester Level 1 it can only spend 1 Power Point. I think it was you that brought this up before and I tried to explain it. Either you missed my post, or I didn't get the message across. If you have any other questions about this you can get me through IM or PM. KerlanRayne
Book5 10-02-05, 02:29 AM	@Vath - I know of no item that gives it as the only power. I believe the Boots of the Winterlands bestow a similar effect (though with other benefits) @Vath - what about A minor ring of energy resistance grants 10 points of resistance. A major ring of energy resistance grants 20 points of resistance. A greater ring of energy resistance grants 30 points of resistance. Would those work? @elder - Or is environmental heat/cold different than fire/cold damage? I've called environmental heat "fire effect" in games before but I might have missed something in the SRD that says otherwise.
NiQil 10-02-05, 03:07 AM	@Vath - what about Would those work? @elder - Or is environmental heat/cold different than fire/cold damage? I've called environmental heat "fire effect" in games before but I might have missed something in the SRD that says otherwise. They are different. One is an environmental effect, while the other is an enhancement type added to weapons and such. An environmental effect, while it may be called something like "fire effect (to borrow your phrase)", does not deal actual fire damage like a flaming +1 longsword would. At least, as far as I know, anyway.
Book5 10-02-05, 05:01 AM	They are different. One is an environmental effect, while the other is an enhancement type added to weapons and such. An environmental effect, while it may be called something like "fire effect (to borrow your phrase)", does not deal actual fire damage like a flaming +1 longsword would. At least, as far as I know, anyway. righto checked wilderness and encounters and damage from extrreem heat and cold is just refered to as lethal or non-lethal not fire or frost damage. So yeah, boots or credits. Rough. Sure seems like some stuff is just missing from raw. Like "Vest of Adaption" or something.
Usurpator 10-02-05, 01:23 PM	So, my first above creation above ECL3: Corghann the Wily (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7403076) If anybody can look him over for errors, mistakes, weird things, or any other comment before I start shelling out the credits?
Pittbull 10-02-05, 02:01 PM	I think +1 more LA is worth to avoid control shape-rolls. The DCs are so high. Making control-check's when you get damaged isn't fun. Control Shape (Wis) Any character who has contracted lycanthropy and is aware of his condition can learn Control Shape as a class skill. (An afflicted lycanthrope not yet aware of his condition can attempt Control Shape checks untrained.) This skill determines whether an afflicted lycanthrope can control his shape. A natural lycanthrope does not need this skill, since it has full control over its shape. Check (Involuntary Change) An afflicted character must make a check at moonrise each night of the full moon to resist involuntarily assuming animal form. An injured character must also check for an involuntary change after accumulating enough damage to reduce his hit points by one-quarter and again after each additional one-quarter lost. Involuntary Change Control Shape DC Resist involuntary change 25 On a failed check, the character must remain in animal form until the next dawn, when he automatically returns to his base form. A character aware of his condition may make one attempt to return to humanoid form (see below), but if he fails, he remains in animal form until the next dawn. Retry (Involuntary Change) Check to resist an involuntary change once each time a triggering event occurs. Check (Voluntary Change) In addition, an afflicted lycanthrope aware of his condition may attempt to use this skill voluntarily in order to change to animal form, assume hybrid form, or return to humanoid form, regardless of the state of the moon or whether he has been injured. Voluntary Change Control Shape DC For game purposes, the full moon lasts three days every month. Return to humanoid form (full moon1) 25 Return to humanoid form (not full moon) 20 Assume hybrid form 15 Voluntary change to animal form (full moon) 15 Voluntary change to animal form (not full moon) 20 Retry (Voluntary Change) A character can retry voluntary changes to animal form or hybrid form as often as he likes. Each attempt is a standard action. However, on a failed check to return to humanoid form, the character must remain in animal or hybrid form until the next dawn, when he automatically returns to humanoid form. Special An afflicted lycanthrope cannot attempt a voluntary change until it becomes aware of its condition (see Lycanthropy as an Affliction).
Tellish_of_Ket 10-02-05, 03:21 PM	I think +1 more LA is worth to avoid control shape-rolls. The DCs are so high. Making control-check's when you get damaged isn't fun. Control Shape (Wis) Any character who has contracted lycanthropy and is aware of his condition can learn Control Shape as a class skill. (An afflicted lycanthrope not yet aware of his condition can attempt Control Shape checks untrained.) This skill determines whether an afflicted lycanthrope can control his shape. A natural lycanthrope does not need this skill, since it has full control over its shape. Check (Involuntary Change) An afflicted character must make a check at moonrise each night of the full moon to resist involuntarily assuming animal form. An injured character must also check for an involuntary change after accumulating enough damage to reduce his hit points by one-quarter and again after each additional one-quarter lost. Involuntary Change Control Shape DC Resist involuntary change 25 On a failed check, the character must remain in animal form until the next dawn, when he automatically returns to his base form. A character aware of his condition may make one attempt to return to humanoid form (see below), but if he fails, he remains in animal form until the next dawn. Retry (Involuntary Change) Check to resist an involuntary change once each time a triggering event occurs. Check (Voluntary Change) In addition, an afflicted lycanthrope aware of his condition may attempt to use this skill voluntarily in order to change to animal form, assume hybrid form, or return to humanoid form, regardless of the state of the moon or whether he has been injured. Voluntary Change Control Shape DC For game purposes, the full moon lasts three days every month. Return to humanoid form (full moon1) 25 Return to humanoid form (not full moon) 20 Assume hybrid form 15 Voluntary change to animal form (full moon) 15 Voluntary change to animal form (not full moon) 20 Retry (Voluntary Change) A character can retry voluntary changes to animal form or hybrid form as often as he likes. Each attempt is a standard action. However, on a failed check to return to humanoid form, the character must remain in animal or hybrid form until the next dawn, when he automatically returns to humanoid form. Special An afflicted lycanthrope cannot attempt a voluntary change until it becomes aware of its condition (see Lycanthropy as an Affliction). Ya...what he said. Plus you can redirect some skills. -ToK
Usurpator 10-02-05, 04:23 PM	Ya...what he said. Plus you can redirect some skills. -ToK Well, just don't have the credits for ECL 5, and I think it's a bit too costly as well for what you gain. Besides, the way I read it, the intention for involuntary change is to occur when you're in humanoid form, not in hybrid or animal form. An afflicted character who is aware of his or her condition (see above) can try to resume humanoid form following a change (voluntary or involuntary) with a Control Shape check, but if he fails his check, he remains in animal (or hybrid) form until the following dawn. If Corghann voluntarily changes to a hybrid as prebuff, then tries to change back and deliberately fails the Control Shape check, according to the text he can (and must) remain in hybrid form until the following dawn. The whole text written from the perspective of the lycanthrope desiring to be in his original form. For arena fights, Corghann does not want to be in his original form, ever.
Iced 10-02-05, 08:02 PM	When are the guilds going to start up again?
SauroGrenom 10-02-05, 08:15 PM	When the Living Guild rules system is set in place, then the guilds will get started. Atleast that's what Cat has said. If you want to help get it going, read the Council thread's last couple pages and make a post with your ideas.
Snommelp 10-02-05, 08:28 PM	This has probably already been asked, but what's the standard way of showing that a character is making money with a skill as a free action? Do we list the amount being made, the skill modifier, both?
Vathelokai 10-03-05, 01:02 AM	In case anyone's interested, the arcane rules section of TAO has been updated. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7225626&postcount=6)
Vathelokai 10-03-05, 01:06 AM	When are the guilds going to start up again? It should be noted that the older guild threads (East Habari, Brotherhood Arcane) can still be used for RP. It seems all this 'guild reorganization' business has put a damper on things. But everyone should know that there is no ban on RPing in the already existing guilds; just the new guilds with new rules must wait. So if you want to go apply to a guild, or just have fun with your character, by all means do it.
NiQil 10-03-05, 02:24 AM	This has probably already been asked, but what's the standard way of showing that a character is making money with a skill as a free action? Do we list the amount being made, the skill modifier, both? Look at the subject heading for this post. That is how I do it on my characters. So something like Ready for October 5th, making money with Craft: Bookbinding or something like that.
TelinArtho 10-03-05, 01:57 PM	@HUAN! I tried to reply to your PM but it told me that you didn't like PMs. The quest sounds fine - any particular aspect of your character that you want to explore? I'll get the details approved and we'll start this Wednesday.
Emrys Donovan 10-03-05, 03:14 PM	Does Grip of Iron affect the inititial grab attempt for a grapple, the opposed grapple check, or both?
NiQil 10-03-05, 03:20 PM	Does Grip of Iron affect the inititial grab attempt for a grapple, the opposed grapple check, or both? Grip of Iron Psychometabolism Level: Psychic warrior 1 Display: Visual Manifesting Time: 1 immediate action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 round/level Power Points: 1 You can improve your chances in a grapple as an immediate action, gaining a +4 enhancement bonus on your grapple checks. You can manifest this power with an instant thought, quickly enough to gain the benefit of the power in the current round. Manifesting this power is an immediate action, like manifesting a quickened power, and it counts toward the normal limit of one quickened power per round. You can manifest this power when it isn’t your turn (if you are grappled). Augment: For every 4 additional power points you spend, the enhancement bonus on your grapple checks increases by 2. Emphasis mine. The above bolded line indicates that you get the bonus to the opposed grapple check made after the initial melee touch attack to start a grapple. You do not get this bonus to the initial melee touch attack, since it says you can improve your chances IN a grapple, not to START a grapple.
Emrys Donovan 10-03-05, 03:24 PM	Sounds good. Thanks.
NiQil 10-03-05, 03:27 PM	Sounds good. Thanks. And if I'm right about the reason you asked this, I'm in trouble :weep:
Emrys Donovan 10-03-05, 03:33 PM	Also, if I use all my power points, I automatically lose my psionic focus, right?
Emrys Donovan 10-03-05, 03:34 PM	And if I'm right about the reason you asked this, I'm in trouble :weep: Nope, wrong reason...Its for my quest. :D
NiQil 10-03-05, 03:41 PM	Also, if I use all my power points, I automatically lose my psionic focus, right? Here ya go... Once you are psionically focused, you remain focused until you expend your focus, become unconscious, or go to sleep (or enter a meditative trance, in the case of elans), or until your power point reserve drops to 0.
NiQil 10-03-05, 03:42 PM	Nope, wrong reason...Its for my quest. :D Well then get to hoppin' on the right reason LOL. Ya got about 12 hours until deadline LOL.
TelinArtho 10-03-05, 03:46 PM	I swear I must be issuing an unspoken challenge to all of the people on the boards... I've now run four quests: The Pulverizer and The Phantom Lord (Xanadu) - first hit knocked Pulverizer from Full HP to negatives. He was healed and they finished the quest. Zamier (Altaris13) - fights a bugbear and 2 orcs. One of the orcs gets a crit knocking him from full to 2hp - he then dies a few rounds later Crovax (Nightbanegod) - successfully dodges attacks from a troll and two ogres for 6 rounds unscathed - but since he didn't do anything effective in that time, when they did start hitting, he got creamed... Torgirr (TheMagister) - faces off with a giant praying mantis, but steps away at the wrong time and gets sliced. So four quests - and three of the 5 characters have died (and one more went down...). Next week, I start a quest for Talari (Luni), Dameon Leonne (Huan) and The Gatekeeper (Iced). What do you suppose the Vegas odds are that all three will complete their respective quests? Tune in next week for full coverage... (cue Usurpator...)
SauroGrenom 10-03-05, 03:50 PM	I know that I read somewhere that if a skill effect is active, and something happens to increase the DC, then a new check must be made. Example, you are balancing on a ledge and an evil enemy pours grease upon your ledge (ledge becomes slippery). Then you must succeed on a new balance check at higher DC or fall from the ledge. In this case the balance check made before the grease does not continue to be in effect. The new higher DC requires a second roll. Another example would be if you are using the Survival skill to track an enemy, but it begins to rain, the higher DC requires a success on a reroll or you loose the trail. Specifically this has come up in the Area with the Handle Animal Skill that has an increased DC to perform the action "handle animal" if the animal is wounded. The question is, does the Handler have to make a second check at higher DC if the animal is wounded?
NiQil 10-03-05, 03:56 PM	I know I read that thing about increased DC's requiring a reroll of the skill check somewhere. I just cannot find it right now. If you are referring to your issue in your battle regarding the Handle Animal skill....I posted the relevant text in the FotW thread.
Emrys Donovan 10-03-05, 04:01 PM	Well then get to hoppin' on the right reason LOL. Ya got about 12 hours until deadline LOL. I know...Don't worry, your fight will be up before then...It doesn't take me long to do a fight. Good luck to you and my other three gladiators, although I'm still missing tactics from you, Kaigin. I will accept them for another 3 hours.
NiQil 10-03-05, 04:05 PM	I know...Don't worry, your fight will be up before then...It doesn't take me long to do a fight. Good luck to you and my other three gladiators, although I'm still missing tactics from you, Kaigin. I will accept them for another 3 hours. Heh.....not a shot at you here....but I always worry....the last 6 weeks in a row and 7 of 8 I have had a fight I was in go past deadline.
TelinArtho 10-03-05, 04:07 PM	Well, as per usual, I should be around to pick up the extras even if they do - though this week is actually busier than most - so we'll have to see...
Mind Rogue 10-03-05, 04:57 PM	I know that I read somewhere that if a skill effect is active, and something happens to increase the DC, then a new check must be made. Example, you are balancing on a ledge and an evil enemy pours grease upon your ledge (ledge becomes slippery). Then you must succeed on a new balance check at higher DC or fall from the ledge. In this case the balance check made before the grease does not continue to be in effect. The new higher DC requires a second roll. Another example would be if you are using the Survival skill to track an enemy, but it begins to rain, the higher DC requires a success on a reroll or you loose the trail. Specifically this has come up in the Area with the Handle Animal Skill that has an increased DC to perform the action "handle animal" if the animal is wounded. The question is, does the Handler have to make a second check at higher DC if the animal is wounded? The Track feat specifically says that if the DC increases you must make a new Survival check, but to the best of my knowledge, no such caveat exists for skills in general.
Usurpator 10-03-05, 07:17 PM	I know that I read somewhere that if a skill effect is active, and something happens to increase the DC, then a new check must be made. Example, you are balancing on a ledge and an evil enemy pours grease upon your ledge (ledge becomes slippery). Then you must succeed on a new balance check at higher DC or fall from the ledge. In this case the balance check made before the grease does not continue to be in effect. The new higher DC requires a second roll. Another example would be if you are using the Survival skill to track an enemy, but it begins to rain, the higher DC requires a success on a reroll or you loose the trail. Specifically this has come up in the Area with the Handle Animal Skill that has an increased DC to perform the action "handle animal" if the animal is wounded. The question is, does the Handler have to make a second check at higher DC if the animal is wounded? Even if this were true (and I don't think it is) if such a check failed, the horse would still automatically defend itself against any attacker, in this case Rebreg. And even then, the horse only did damage on its initial attack, it doesn't matter for the result of the fight. Sure, I liked for Rebreg to win once, I didn't write 'Save Rebreg' for nothing, but as fate would have it, you were paired against one of my characters. And looking at the fight, Rebreg had a fair shot. He certainly can't complain about the rolls...
SauroGrenom 10-03-05, 07:56 PM	No hard fealings Usurpator. I'm kind of a rules lawyer at heart, and I always want to see the rules properly applied. Problem is that I keep learning more rules as each battle passes. BTW I got a real chuckle out of "Save Rebreg". I must admit that after this defeat I gave serious consideration to retiring Rebreg, but he has become the ultimate underdog in my mind. We shall see how many losses he can endure without giving up. At this rate another 4 or 5 losses before he levels. On a related topic, I have been seriously impressed by the potency of "pet" builds. A light warhorse in the battle is a tremendously powerfull ally at low levels. If you have a familiar along or an animal companion, then the number of combatants quickly increases beyond the ability of any one melee character to control. You don't even need any ranks in Ride or handle animal to have a mount, and use it's movement to outmanouver any opponent at EL3. The creature will automatically defend you in melee combat and take AoO's. I have yet to figure out an effective way for a melee build to neutralize the extra attacks and HP sink that the horse represents.
Huan 10-03-05, 11:33 PM	Calling any and all available Questlords: I would like to take go on an ECL 5 Long Quest with Dameon Leonne starting this week. Please reply ASAP! (I poked TelinArtho, who is stated to be available, but no reply for over a day now)
The Undershadow 10-03-05, 11:56 PM	Could you please look over this character and tell me what you think? He isn't finished yet. I just wanted to know what you thought. Thanks click here (7386866)
Sindorin 10-04-05, 12:06 AM	@ Huan, I can take Dameon's quest, if Scribelords okays it. I have... ideas... :lightbulb
Huan 10-04-05, 12:13 AM	@Sindorin Thanks! @TelinArtho Dont worry about it now. Thanks for hearing me out though.
SauroGrenom 10-04-05, 12:31 AM	Do Psions gain a PsiCrystal automatically as a class feature, or do they have to spend a feat on it?
nightbanegod 10-04-05, 12:37 AM	is a stunned blined creature able to be CDGed?
SauroGrenom 10-04-05, 12:50 AM	is a stunned blined creature able to be CDGed? HELPLESS DEFENDERS A helpless opponent is someone who is bound, sleeping, paralyzed, unconscious, or otherwise at your mercy. Coup de Grace: As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target. You automatically hit and score a critical hit. If the defender survives the damage, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. A rogue also gets her extra sneak attack damage against a helpless opponent when delivering a coup de grace. No, you cannot CDG a blinded stunned opponent. You can attack it with a -4 on the opponents AC, and the opponent looses dex and dodge bonuses to AC.
NiQil 10-04-05, 12:51 AM	@ Huan If you go back through the lasts few posts, Telin did try to PM you, but he said that it wouldn't accept his PMs @ Emrys No, psions do not get them for free...they must spend a feat for them (usually the bonus feat they get at first level). @ nightbanegod A CDG requires that your opponent be helpless. Helpless, as defined by the PHB, page 309, consists of being paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. Stunned isn't mentioned as being one of the conditions where a CDG would apply.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-04-05, 01:19 AM	@Sindorin Thanks! @TelinArtho Dont worry about it now. Thanks for hearing me out though. Actually, there may be some confusion. TelinArtho PM'd the Pitlords account saying you were going on a quest. Now where the confusion comes in, is he didn't exactly state that he was running it...he just sent me notice that you were going on one. -ToK
NiQil 10-04-05, 01:27 AM	Grrr....2 and a half hours until 7 weeks in a row of at least one character's fight going late...and with no one having picked it up, methinks there is very little chance of it not hitting number 7...so frustrating.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-04-05, 01:42 AM	Grrr....2 and a half hours until 7 weeks in a row of at least one character's fight going late...and with no one having picked it up, methinks there is very little chance of it not hitting number 7...so frustrating. Level 3 Wlandra (Delusional Illusion) vs The Dire Flame (Iced): Altaris13 Tan, Son of Sty (Book5) vs Sebastian (Emrys Donovan): Caterane Coralias Tahlron (Kaigan) vs Axhind (NiQil): Emrys Donovan Delaria (TelinArtho) MiniQuests for a Small Air Elemental: King Uther Level 5 Milo Tad (SodaGuy) vs Memorix (Tellish_of_Ket): Gonbow Level 7 Nessa Tempe (LLMadCow) vs 1 drider (monster): Iced Level 9 Virgo Arkazzan (King Uther) vs Hagrid II (Pittbull) & Brilf Zephyr (Sunwolf): Luni There are many late fights this week and Kaigan hasn't sent tactics for Coralias Tahlron. I should remind all pitlords that tactics are due friday. You DO NOT have to wait for them (unless they've pm'd you in advanced letting you know of their tardiness). If you don't get them friday, you are free to run the fight Saturday or at your earliest convenience. If the gladiator in question doesn't have default tactics to run with, you have the right to "toss in the towel" and have the match declared an auto-loss against that gladiator. These constant lates have a snowball affect against the gladiators and quite the source of distraction. Often times even if the fight is posted late, they cannot update their character soon enough for the Wednesday pairings and are forced to sit out. I've PM'd Emrys to do exactly that since Coralias doesn't have any default tactics. Please send me all tactics for all oustanding fights. I will do my best to finish them up. -ToK
NiQil 10-04-05, 01:58 AM	Level 3 Wlandra (Delusional Illusion) vs The Dire Flame (Iced): Altaris13 Tan, Son of Sty (Book5) vs Sebastian (Emrys Donovan): Caterane Coralias Tahlron (Kaigan) vs Axhind (NiQil): Emrys Donovan Delaria (TelinArtho) MiniQuests for a Small Air Elemental: King Uther Level 5 Milo Tad (SodaGuy) vs Memorix (Tellish_of_Ket): Gonbow Level 7 Nessa Tempe (LLMadCow) vs 1 drider (monster): Iced Level 9 Virgo Arkazzan (King Uther) vs Hagrid II (Pittbull) & Brilf Zephyr (Sunwolf): Luni There are many late fights this week and Kaigan hasn't sent tactics for Coralias Tahlron. I should remind all pitlords that tactics are due friday. You DO NOT have to wait for them (unless they've pm'd you in advanced letting you know of their tardiness). If you don't get them friday, you are free to run the fight Saturday or at your earliest convenience. If the gladiator in question doesn't have default tactics to run with, you have the right to "toss in the towel" and have the match declared an auto-loss against that gladiator. These constant lates have a snowball affect against the gladiators and quite the source of distraction. Often times even if the fight is posted late, they cannot update their character soon enough for the Wednesday pairings and are forced to sit out. I've PM'd Emrys to do exactly that since Coralias doesn't have any default tactics. Please send me all tactics for all oustanding fights. I will do my best to finish them up. -ToK If you can get tactics for them, I would do the Wlandra vs Dire Flame fight first....that one was held over from last week...would be terrible to have it held over again this week. Also, just in case, I am going to go ahead and forward you Axhind's tactics, on the miracle chance that Kaigan sent in tactics that we don't know about.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-04-05, 04:45 AM	Level 3 Wlandra (Delusional Illusion) vs The Dire Flame (Iced): Altaris13 Tan, Son of Sty (Book5) vs Sebastian (Emrys Donovan): Caterane Delaria (TelinArtho) MiniQuests for a Small Air Elemental: King Uther Level 7 Nessa Tempe (LLMadCow) vs 1 drider (monster): Iced Alright...so now the list has been cut down a bit, and NiQil is taking over Altaris13's fight. Please send NiQil your tactics asap guys so it can be run quickly. Book5 and Emrys, please send me ur tactics, as it doesn't look like Caterane is back yet. -ToK
NiQil 10-04-05, 11:34 AM	Alright...so now the list has been cut down a bit, and NiQil is taking over Altaris13's fight. Please send NiQil your tactics asap guys so it can be run quickly. Book5 and Emrys, please send me ur tactics, as it doesn't look like Caterane is back yet. -ToK I'm sorry if my poor wording has caused confusion...what I was actually saying was that if I were you, ToK, that is the fight that I would do first because it was already a holdover. I don't have any way to do the fight, unfortunately (I don't get enough free time during the week...hence the reason my fights almost always get posted on Friday nights or the weekend). Wlandra did send me tactics, so I am going to forward them to you.
TelinArtho 10-04-05, 12:03 PM	@Huan, Sindorin and Pitlords: Since I've been away, I've already set up the quest for Dameon. However, if you'd rather go under Sindorin - that's fine - I'll hold the quest for someone else later. Just let me know which way. (And Huan you might want to resolve that issue with PMs because I tried to reply and it just said I couldn't...)
TelinArtho 10-04-05, 01:20 PM	@Tok - in your list above you include Delaria's miniquest as not being completed. It is being run in a separate thread and is essentially done (once King Uther does my actions for 1-2 rounds it is anyway...). /d
Huan 10-04-05, 01:24 PM	@TelinArtho Ah, I understand... Sorry, but I needed it last-minute and it was kind of first-come, first-serve... maybe another time :)
TelinArtho 10-04-05, 01:40 PM	No prob Huan. Just so you know, I have a quest for Dameon created (storyline anyway - encounters would need to be updated as you increase in level) that would work for him at any level - so if you need a questlord in a pinch next time - I'm your man... /d
TelinArtho 10-04-05, 02:17 PM	So - did anyone pick up Daeren and Nexa's quest to start on Oct 5th? I know the specifics were sent to Uther (via ToK) - but I've not received any confirmation.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-04-05, 02:25 PM	Now, if Book5, Emrys, and Iced could send me their tactics, i'll try to run the last two fights today. -ToK
TelinArtho 10-04-05, 03:31 PM	So - did anyone pick up Daeren and Nexa's quest to start on Oct 5th? I know the specifics were sent to Uther (via ToK) - but I've not received any confirmation. Okay - looks like Uther is going to take it. Thanks @Usurpator - are you ready?
Sindorin 10-04-05, 03:56 PM	Huan's quest for Dameon is ready to go, intro has been posted.
Sunwolf 10-04-05, 04:13 PM	Question on the Gather Information skill: Is it just your modifier that you use times the value in the table to purchase items from the black market or do you do 10 + modifier like is used for the craft/profession skills for earning money? An example in the FAQ would certainly be nice and answer this question quite nicely. I'd like to figure this out to see if this is a skill I want to use. Thanks. Anyone have an answer for this question or should I ask it in the council thread?
TelinArtho 10-04-05, 04:27 PM	The maximum value depends on your ECL and your Gather information modifier: Look for your ECL in the table below, then multiply your gather information skill modifier with the multiplier. Note that you still need to pay the gold cost! You must link this activity. According to the rules thread on the matter, it is just your ECL multiplier multiplied by your skill modifier.
sloisel 10-04-05, 05:37 PM	Anyone have an answer for this question or should I ask it in the council thread? It's the modifier without the take 10. If you're ECL3 with a skill modifier of +8, that's 8x17=136gp, not 18x17=306gp. Sébastien Loisel
TelinArtho 10-04-05, 05:43 PM	Since this is the second time it has come up, I figured I'd spend a moment to review some of the rules with regard to handle animal and allies: 1. You can purchase allies without the handle animal skill. There is a list to choose from, and you can even pay someone to train them. 2. You can miniquest for allies with the handle animal skill. You must have a handle animal bonus equal to or greater than 5+HD (10+HD for non-animals). This goes even for allies that you would normally purchase - even warhorses. In other words, if you want to not pay for your ally - you are going to have to put some ranks into Handle Animal (or get a really good charisma score...). That is all.
Pitlords 10-04-05, 05:51 PM	Annoucement Well, another week another dollar. I'll be updating the boards and pairings tomorow, so those with quests starting that haven't already PM'd the Pitlords account, please do so now. We have a couple of late fights to which i don't have all the tactics, so they will have to continue on into next week with new pitlords. Due to a shortage of pitlords from last week (several people had to run 3 or more fights), there will be a greater percentage assigned for team battles to take up the slack. Please do not forgot to update your characters and set them to being ready for Oct 5 before the deadline. Thank you and have a great day. -ToK (this has been a public service announcement)
SoulLord 10-04-05, 05:55 PM	Annoucement Well, another week another dollar. I'll be updating the boards and pairings tomorow, so those with quests starting that haven't already PM'd the Pitlords account, please do so now. We have a couple of late fights to which i don't have all the tactics, so they will have to continue on into next week with new pitlords. Due to a shortage of pitlords from last week (several people had to run 3 or more fights), there will be a greater percentage assigned for team battles to take up the slack. Please do not forgot to update your characters and set them to being ready for Oct 5 before the deadline. Thank you and have a great day. -ToK (this has been a public service announcement) That's interesting since I was not assigned any fight last week I thought that we were fine with the number of pitlords we have
Tellish_of_Ket 10-04-05, 06:07 PM	That's interesting since I was not assigned any fight last week I thought that we were fine with the number of pitlords we have I believe you were listed a "no fights" last week. Did you want to run a fight? -ToK
SoulLord 10-04-05, 06:14 PM	Interesting I recall no such anouncement from my part. Also If im not mistaken in the pitlords list I was listed at my usual 1° but what's done was done no sense in especulating what happened. To make it Official hand me a fight next week.
NiQil 10-04-05, 06:18 PM	Also, I normally run two, and only got rolled one....I only picked up a second one because there was a fight that went mistakenly unassigned. I should normally be getting two rolled in for me. Also, there are some people that do have <max> listed as their pitlording preference....I want to say both Luni and nightbanegod have this....so that should help pick up some slack as well.
Vathelokai 10-04-05, 06:18 PM	Do Psions gain a PsiCrystal automatically as a class feature, or do they have to spend a feat on it? They have to spend a feat on it. Psions get a bonus feat at first level, though.
SauroGrenom 10-05-05, 01:13 AM	If a psionic power shows up on the list for more than one class and at two different levels, then which level is the power considered to be manifest at with regard to augmentation, durration and cost (credit cost as well). Example: Biofeedback is a level1 power for a psy warrior, and a level2 power for Psion. If you have a powerstone or Dorje with this power, which level is it manifest at? Also if you are a psy warrior but your powerstone has the psion version of the power(ML3), can you use it?
Luni 10-05-05, 01:18 AM	If a psionic power shows up on the list for more than one class and at two different levels, then which level is the power considered to be manifest at with regard to augmentation, durration and cost. Example: Biofeedback is a level1 power for a psy warrior, and a level2 power for Psion. If you have a powerstone or Dorje with this power, which level is it manifest at? Also if you are a psy warrior but your powerstone has the psion version of the power(ML3), can you use it? Yes. Whichever level you want. If a psion wants to buy a stone of Biofeedback [ML 1] for 25 gp, why not. It isn't gamebreaking. The reverse applies to scrolls. Sometimes it is cheaper to buy ranger scrolls instead of druid scrolls.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-05-05, 01:56 AM	Interesting I recall no such anouncement from my part. Also If im not mistaken in the pitlords list I was listed at my usual 1° but what's done was done no sense in especulating what happened. To make it Official hand me a fight next week. Well, i was just going by the notes left for me. No biggie. I'll make sure you get a fight this week. As well NiQil, i'll ensure you get your 2. Thanks for the notice, it really helps alot. -ToK
Sindorin 10-05-05, 02:14 AM	I'm not sure where to take Ceres in terms of class levels. He is currently 2 fighter 2 psychic warrior. should I keep going with Psychic warrior, or put in levels of something else and try for a prestige class? He is going to level up soon, and I was just thinking about this and I realized I have no idea what I am planning to do with his build. Thanks for any help!
Snommelp 10-05-05, 02:23 AM	I'm not sure where to take Ceres in terms of class levels. He is currently 2 fighter 2 psychic warrior. should I keep going with Psychic warrior, or put in levels of something else and try for a prestige class? He is going to level up soon, and I was just thinking about this and I realized I have no idea what I am planning to do with his build. Thanks for any help! I don't know much about the psionic classes, but I'd say either go for a straight dual-class progression, or keep going in Psychic Warrior. Preferably the first option; dual-classes are fun, and if it weren't for that pesky restriction, I'd be progressing Sam evenly through the monk class and the cleric class right now.
Sindorin 10-05-05, 02:27 AM	Yeah, I had thought about that based on the fact that fighter and psychic warrior would add up to an insane amount of feats. I am considering making Ceres Gladius' first Elocater... it looks like a fun class to mess with. Imagine Ceres as a free action using Dimension Door to blink to a charge position against his opponent and then charging like a maniac. The only thing against that is finding a way for his mount to blink with him as well.
MysticMonk2005 10-05-05, 02:54 AM	Hey all. Its been a while since I've done anything here. Glad to see CoCo is still ticking. Slowly ticking but ticking none the less. Pard is getting itch to down more of those pesky overpowered casters. Any way I'm thinking about making a new character and was wondering if there was any major rule changes that I should know of since... atleast June, but I think I kinda poofed closer to April or May.
Snommelp 10-05-05, 03:01 AM	April or May... then I'm guessing you already know about the 1/3 rule, but the new Arena map may surprise you. I know it surprised me. They were still discussing the possibile ways to avoid first turn kills when I took my leave of absence. The most important thing to note with the new map: tell the pitlord where you want to start in the starting box, or you'll start in the center of it, which isn't really advantageous to any build that I can think of. There are also several kinds of fights, but you won't need to know about them unless you're slotted for one, and they're all listed in the rules. Welcome back.
MysticMonk2005 10-05-05, 03:15 AM	Thanks. Now the question is, will thier renovations stop Pard from 1 rounding? :D Just another quick question, anyone know if Moh still pokes around? <.< I would love to pit Pard against Rito Maya.
Pittbull 10-05-05, 04:02 AM	Hello Mustadio, erhm Mystic ;) ! Nice to have you back again, Mo didn't show up in the last months. Cat is the new and only emperior of the CoCo. Jindl has left, but will hopefully come back. You really need to take a look to the rules of gladius, there are so many new rules, that won't fit in a single post. To your question: One-rounding is still possible for Pard "Lord of the Bumps" Longfellow!
Pitlords 10-05-05, 04:46 AM	The following have been imprisoned by our illustrious Prisonlord. Vivi Ariator Windhaven Lady Esmara Silvertree Victor Adlar Nyatar Tak the Hungry Aran Whitehelm Maylee the Wanderer I see that there are two of the named characters above set as Ready for Oct 5. In order to fight, you need to visit the prion thread and fix your violations. Also, as a note, all characters ECL 5 and below that have been inactive for 3 weeks have been archived. This will streamline the roster a lot and make things easier to see how may be fighting and whatnot. -ToK
MysticMonk2005 10-05-05, 05:09 AM	Glad to see you remember the very first days Pittbul. Arty still remembers seeing his body from a different view, nor has he given up hope for revenge. I've glanced through it, but theres so much there <.< I feel sorry for the fingers of whoever typed all that up. It somewhat saddens me that Pard will never get to expeirence another bump(I was actualy somewhat dissapointed when his winning streak started, almost had 3 bumps in a row you know :P) But it seems that I may need to give him a new title. Perhaps if he still proves to be capable against wizards in LG he might get something along those lines.
Vathelokai 10-05-05, 07:45 AM	1: The presdigitation spell allows a caster to lift upto 1 lb. of material. The spell has a durration of 1 hour (not concentration). Could a caster use presti. to hold a scroll that she is casting, thus leaving one hand free to hold a weapon and one hand free to cast from the scroll? Could the caster use presti. to draw a scroll? Would this be a free action or a move action? 2: The ride skill says that you can ride an 'ill suited' creature. What types of creatures do they mean? Could I ride an ogre by using diplomacy instead of handle animal? Could I ride a mindless centipede, and if so, how would it be controlled? Is there any limit on what can be ridden? If you attempt to ride a creature that is ill suited as a mount, you take a –5 penalty on your Ride checks. A mount must be at least one size category bigger than the rider. A mount and rider share the same space on the battlefield. 3: If someone takes the improved familiar feat, do they have to use the unmodified creature from the monster manual? Specificly, can they use elite and/or advanced creatures? The list ... presents only a few possible improved familiars. Almost any creature of the same general size and power as those on the list makes a suitable familiar.Since the list is organized by caster level, could we take this quote to mean that the imp. familiar feat could allow most any creature as long as there is a level prereq.? Could I pay credits/quest to use the feat in such a way? 4: When spell slots are lost (such as when sacrified for archmage/hierophant powers), are these spell slots no longer considered in the 1/3 rule equation? Are they considered prebuff slots, or are the no longer considered spell slots at all?
Vathelokai 10-05-05, 08:21 AM	Buying Buildings Characters might want to buy their own buildings or even construct their own castle. Use the prices in Table: Buildings directly, or as a guide when for extrapolating costs for more exotic structures. Table: Buildings Item Cost Simple house 1,000 gp Grand house 5,000 gp Mansion 100,000 gp Tower 50,000 gp Keep 150,000 gp Castle 500,000 gp Huge castle 1,000,000 gp Moat with bridge 50,000 gp Simple House: This one- to three-room house is made of wood and has a thatched roof. Grand House: This four- to ten-room house is made of wood and has a thatched roof. Mansion: This ten- to twenty-room residence has two or three stories and is made of wood and brick. It has a slate roof. Tower: This round or square, three-level tower is made of stone. Keep: This fortified stone building has fifteen to twenty-five rooms. Castle: A castle is a keep surrounded by a 15-foot stone wall with four towers. The wall is 10 feet thick. Huge Castle: A huge castle is a particularly large keep with numerous associated buildings (stables, forge, granaries, and so on) and an elaborate 20-foot-high wall that creates bailey and courtyard areas. The wall has six towers and is 10 feet thick. Moat with Bridge: The moat is 15 feet deep and 30 feet wide. The bridge may be a wooden drawbridge or a permanent stone structure. This came up last week...I might have to go buy me a house. :mage: Hmmm...I wonder if I had Craft: Arcitecture if I could build a masterwork house at half price? With the COCO house rules, I could build simple houses in my spare time between fights :D Also, I might drag this post over to the Council. We are the 'Core' Coliseum, after all, and it turn out there are rules for aquireing property.
SoulLord 10-05-05, 11:13 AM	1: The presdigitation spell allows a caster to lift upto 1 lb. of material. The spell has a durration of 1 hour (not concentration). Could a caster use presti. to hold a scroll that she is casting, thus leaving one hand free to hold a weapon and one hand free to cast from the scroll? Could the caster use presti. to draw a scroll? Would this be a free action or a move action? 2: The ride skill says that you can ride an 'ill suited' creature. What types of creatures do they mean? Could I ride an ogre by using diplomacy instead of handle animal? Could I ride a mindless centipede, and if so, how would it be controlled? Is there any limit on what can be ridden? 3: If someone takes the improved familiar feat, do they have to use the unmodified creature from the monster manual? Specificly, can they use elite and/or advanced creatures? Since the list is organized by caster level, could we take this quote to mean that the imp. familiar feat could allow most any creature as long as there is a level prereq.? Could I pay credits/quest to use the feat in such a way? 4: When spell slots are lost (such as when sacrified for archmage/hierophant powers), are these spell slots no longer considered in the 1/3 rule equation? Are they considered prebuff slots, or are the no longer considered spell slots at all? 1: yes 2: creatures you don't usually ride like Horses; as long as you have a suitable riding saddle I would say go for it. 3: you can take the improved credit costing option 4: Since you dont have them available since you sacrificed them I would say they dont count in the 1/3 equation
NiQil 10-05-05, 01:04 PM	So I had this idea for a group of villains to use in a home campaign and I need some help fleshing them out...thought you all might be able to offer some ideas. I stole this idea of the WotC boards, so some of you might have heard this before. I want to make a group of villains based around the seven deadly sins....specifically one villain to represent each sin. I need some help fleshing out what would go best with each sin, using only the material we use here in CoCo. Here's what I have so far: Greed - halfing rogue Wrath - half-orc or orc barbarian Pride - elven druid Sloth - Lust - Envy - Gluttony - dwarven fighter These are the ideas I have had so far. I may eventually role these in here to playtest their viability, but any help anyone can add would be appreciated.
Luni 10-05-05, 01:07 PM	So I had this idea for a group of villains to use in a home campaign and I need some help fleshing them out...thought you all might be able to offer some ideas. I stole this idea of the WotC boards, so some of you might have heard this before. I want to make a group of villains based around the seven deadly sins....specifically one villain to represent each sin. I need some help fleshing out what would go best with each sin, using only the material we use here in CoCo. Here's what I have so far: Greed - halfing rogue Wrath - half-orc or orc barbarian Pride - elven druid Sloth - Lust - Envy - Gluttony - dwarven fighter These are the ideas I have had so far. I may eventually role these in here to playtest their viability, but any help anyone can add would be appreciated. Lust and Evy should be bards or enchanters.
NiQil 10-05-05, 01:22 PM	Lust and Evy should be bards or enchanters. The one thing I was thinking was to make Envy the elven druid (envious of other creatures forms (i.e. Wild shape)), and make Pride a human cleric instead (my god's better than your god). Then that would leave Lust and Sloth. Maybe make Lust an elven wizard/sorcerer enchanter and Sloth a gnome illusionist (too lazy to even make his spells real).
TelinArtho 10-05-05, 01:25 PM	An Anti-paladin (Blackguard) would work well for Pride, in my opinion... Sloth could be anything in heavy armor (cleric or fighter) with a slow movement to begin with (gnome, halfling - maybe dwarf)
NiQil 10-05-05, 01:46 PM	An Anti-paladin (Blackguard) would work well for Pride, in my opinion... Sloth could be anything in heavy armor (cleric or fighter) with a slow movement to begin with (gnome, halfling - maybe dwarf) So here's what I have now. Greed - halfling rogue Wrath - half-giant barbarian Pride - human blackguard Sloth - dwarven fighter Lust - tiefling sorcerer Envy - elven druid Gluttony ?
TelinArtho 10-05-05, 02:09 PM	Gluttony sounds like a halfling bard to me...
NiQil 10-05-05, 02:22 PM	Gluttony sounds like a halfling bard to me... That's the one I'm stuck on....I just don't see anything "gluttunous" about most of these classes/races. Gluttony, to me, implies doing something - or everything - in excess. Maybe a wilder, with the whole Wild Surge/Enervation thing?
Luni 10-05-05, 03:03 PM	That's the one I'm stuck on....I just don't see anything "gluttunous" about most of these classes/races. Gluttony, to me, implies doing something - or everything - in excess. Maybe a wilder, with the whole Wild Surge/Enervation thing? Too bad you can't play an oozemaster. Make gluttony a troll? Of course thats an ECL of 11.
TelinArtho 10-05-05, 03:15 PM	Okay - I'm starting to look over making a character with Gather Information, but I want to know how much I can buy with it. For instance, the text says that you can purchase a single item without credits as long as its price falls under the product of ECL Multiplier * Skill Modifier. For instance, a 3rd level rogue with a 16 Cha and Skill Focus (Gather Information), would have a +12 Gather Information. The multiplier for ECL3 is x17, so the product is 204gp. For my example I need a bit higher threshold, so for the sake of argument, lets make the rogue 20th level with a total modifier of +45 (absurd, but not impossible...). This gives him a product of 45*45 = 2025gp. Now, since he's a ranged type of rogue, he wants to purchase magic arrows. Can he only purchase 1 type of arrow at a time or only 1 arrow at a time: 1 arrow +1 bane vs x, y, or z (+2 equiv) = 166.05gp 5 arrows +1 bane vs x,y, or z (+2 equiv) = 830.25gp I know he can't buy multiple different types of arrows each week, but being able to buy a single type of arrow would be nice - as long as he could do multiples. Any thoughts on the matter? /d
Luni 10-05-05, 03:22 PM	Okay - I'm starting to look over making a character with Gather Information, but I want to know how much I can buy with it. For instance, the text says that you can purchase a single item without credits as long as its price falls under the product of ECL Multiplier * Skill Modifier. For instance, a 3rd level rogue with a 16 Cha and Skill Focus (Gather Information), would have a +12 Gather Information. The multiplier for ECL3 is x17, so the product is 204gp. For my example I need a bit higher threshold, so for the sake of argument, lets make the rogue 20th level with a total modifier of +45 (absurd, but not impossible...). This gives him a product of 45*45 = 2025gp. Now, since he's a ranged type of rogue, he wants to purchase magic arrows. Can he only purchase 1 type of arrow at a time or only 1 arrow at a time: 1 arrow +1 bane vs x, y, or z (+2 equiv) = 166.05gp 5 arrows +1 bane vs x,y, or z (+2 equiv) = 830.25gp I know he can't buy multiple different types of arrows each week, but being able to buy a single type of arrow would be nice - as long as he could do multiples. Any thoughts on the matter? /d Your level 20 rogue should have 900 gp cap, not 2025. It isn't bad. At level 3, you can buy 1 bane arrow a week. [Giants, Elves and Human bane!] You just got to guess which race your opponent is before hand. Actually, you could buy augmented tattoo's and potions easily though.
NiQil 10-05-05, 03:24 PM	Too bad you can't play an oozemaster. Make gluttony a troll? Of course thats an ECL of 11. If I made them monsters, Gluttony would be fairly easy...first thing that comes to mind is a gelatanous cube LOL. But I'd like to try and make them core classes....maybe a thri-keen monk? Couldn't playtest that one here...but the gluttony of attacks.....has possibilities.
TelinArtho 10-05-05, 03:45 PM	Your level 20 rogue should have 900 gp cap, not 2025. It isn't bad. At level 3, you can buy 1 bane arrow a week. [Giants, Elves and Human bane!] You just got to guess which race your opponent is before hand. Actually, you could buy augmented tattoo's and potions easily though. Nope - 2025gp. You multiply your bonus to the skill (+45) by the level multiplier (level 20 = x45) = 45*45 = 2025. Like I said though, it would be nice to know if I'm limited to a single arrow, or lots of one type of arrow.
NiQil 10-05-05, 03:50 PM	Nope - 2025gp. You multiply your bonus to the skill (+45) by the level multiplier (level 20 = x45) = 45*45 = 2025. Like I said though, it would be nice to know if I'm limited to a single arrow, or lots of one type of arrow. If I had to guess, I would say that you would probably be limited to 1 quiver of one type of arrows. So, 1 quiver of 20 Bane (Pitlord) arrows or something. :P That's what makes the most sense to me, anyway.
Gonbow 10-05-05, 04:12 PM	If I made them monsters, Gluttony would be fairly easy...first thing that comes to mind is a gelatanous cube LOL. But I'd like to try and make them core classes....maybe a thri-keen monk? Couldn't playtest that one here...but the gluttony of attacks.....has possibilities. A similar suggestion occured to me; If anyone has seen FMA they'll know I'm shameless, but make Gluttony a human (ex)monk/psychic warrior. Beats people up then eats them with various Bite of X powers ;)
MysticMonk2005 10-05-05, 04:12 PM	I would make Lust a sucubus <.< and every time i see those Full Metal Alchemist keeps running through my mind....
NiQil 10-05-05, 04:30 PM	The more and more I think about it, the more I like the thri-keen monk with multi-weapon fighting.....won't be able to hit worth a darn, but oh the number of attacks it would get....a "gluttunous" amount if I do say so myself.
TelinArtho 10-05-05, 04:32 PM	Well, a sahaugin mutant should work well enough - 4 talons plus a bite. If its grappling, add 2 more for rakes...
SauroGrenom 10-05-05, 08:15 PM	I was just auditing my opponent for this week and I had an interesting thought. Is it possable to cast Shillelagh from a scroll while you are holding the staff? The spell has a somatic component, so I assume that you need a free hand to cast the spell. If you are holding the scrolll with one hand, then you have to cast with the other. There are no hands left for the staff, so you'll need to drop it on the ground cast the spell and retrieve it. Is this right?
Luni 10-05-05, 08:23 PM	I was just auditing my opponent for this week and I had an interesting thought. Is it possable to cast Shillelagh from a scroll while you are holding the staff? The spell has a somatic component, so I assume that you need a free hand to cast the spell. If you are holding the scrolll with one hand, then you have to cast with the other. There are no hands left for the staff, so you'll need to drop it on the ground cast the spell and retrieve it. Is this right? Yep. He has to sheathe his quarterstaff or drop it before casting Shillelagh from a scroll.
NiQil 10-05-05, 09:20 PM	Yep. He has to sheathe his quarterstaff or drop it before casting Shillelagh from a scroll. Actually that is an error on my part...they should be oils, not scrolls, as shillelagh is not on the ranger spell list. Didn't remember to change them before the fight, so either the Pitlord can let me use them as oils, or I simply won't use them this fight.
MotherBast 10-05-05, 09:40 PM	Hello all. Been awhile. I know I said I was comming back 5 months ago, but my jobs been crazy. Went from driving a truck to being a traveling salesman. Its hard to find time ya know. Anyway, I was just scanning through the recent D&D FAQs and noticed they finally put it in the FAQ that Monks can use the Improved Nattural Attack feat. It was a HUGE debate here on the threds back in my day. In the end, the vote did go the way of Improved Nattural Attack being legal, but it was still not "offical". I'm glad it is now. So, whos still here from the old days huh? I'm sure CAT is. By the way CAT, I finally went to Italy. Stopped over in Paris too. Rome was cool, but it was in the summer, so like, no one there but tourest, and I'm not into the tourest thing. Mostly just hung out at the girl's house I went to see. And I'm absolutly positive I'm spelling Tourest wrong.... humm.... oh bother. That is one thing that remains unchanged, my seplling is still as bad as its ever been. Anyway, just thought yall would like to know about the FAQ matching up to what we had decided last year. I'll probably stop in again in the next week or so, but I still don't have time to run another character. Haven't forgotten the CoCo though. I'll be back some day, but right now I don't even have time for my RL game. Haven't had my D&D fix in over 6 months.... oh, the pain, the agony!!! I hate adulthood....
Sindorin 10-05-05, 10:18 PM	I don't know if you remember me, but I'm still here, and I was an Elder at one point. I dont know if I still am, because Cat said I was an Elder "from then on..." but then i left for a short bit and came back only recently. Anyway, glad to have you back!!!
SauroGrenom 10-06-05, 12:16 AM	What is the CoCo Ruling on Smokesticks? The SRD states that to use these you must ignite them. Can a gladiator use these in the arena, and if so then how?
Snommelp 10-06-05, 01:51 AM	What is the CoCo Ruling on Smokesticks? The SRD states that to use these you must ignite them. Can a gladiator use these in the arena, and if so then how?I think I had a gnome monk use those once... I think it was a standard action to set it off. Feel free to get a second opinion, though. Another question: when you weild a two-handed weapon, your off-hand side is considered a light weapon. In a grapple, you can try to weild a light weapon against your opponent. Are these two rules compatible, or in other words, can you use your off-hand side of a two-handed weapon in a grapple?
Pitlords 10-06-05, 04:12 AM	Hello all. Been awhile. I know I said I was comming back 5 months ago, but my jobs been crazy. Went from driving a truck to being a traveling salesman. Its hard to find time ya know. Anyway, I was just scanning through the recent D&D FAQs and noticed they finally put it in the FAQ that Monks can use the Improved Nattural Attack feat. It was a HUGE debate here on the threds back in my day. In the end, the vote did go the way of Improved Nattural Attack being legal, but it was still not "offical". I'm glad it is now. So, whos still here from the old days huh? I'm sure CAT is. By the way CAT, I finally went to Italy. Stopped over in Paris too. Rome was cool, but it was in the summer, so like, no one there but tourest, and I'm not into the tourest thing. Mostly just hung out at the girl's house I went to see. And I'm absolutly positive I'm spelling Tourest wrong.... humm.... oh bother. That is one thing that remains unchanged, my seplling is still as bad as its ever been. Anyway, just thought yall would like to know about the FAQ matching up to what we had decided last year. I'll probably stop in again in the next week or so, but I still don't have time to run another character. Haven't forgotten the CoCo though. I'll be back some day, but right now I don't even have time for my RL game. Haven't had my D&D fix in over 6 months.... oh, the pain, the agony!!! I hate adulthood.... :eek: :w00t: :mymy: Now, there is a blast from the past. kerlaneRayne, LLMadcow, Sloisel, Tellish of Ket, Sindorin, Kaigan, Caterane, are still around from Old School. Come back soon. It's pretty crazy right now. We've seen a ton of new and interesting builds since you've been gone. Heck, since I was gone. How was the trip? Find any cool bong-shops? LOL LOL...the new people won't get that inside joke. :D -ToK
KerlanRayne 10-06-05, 04:31 AM	So, whos still here from the old days huh? I'm sure CAT is. By the way CAT, I finally went to Italy. Stopped over in Paris too. Rome was cool, but it was in the summer, so like, no one there but tourest, and I'm not into the tourest thing. Mostly just hung out at the girl's house I went to see. And I'm absolutly positive I'm spelling Tourest wrong.... humm.... oh bother. That is one thing that remains unchanged, my seplling is still as bad as its ever been.Yes Cat is still here. He is now the supreme ruler of the CoCo. All Hail the Cat! ;) He has been cut off, however. His internet connection has been messed up for a week or so, and he's working on the problem. Jindl is gone though, on a haiatus I guess. Glad to see you back. KerlanRayne
sloisel 10-06-05, 04:48 AM	Welcome back! Anyway, I was just scanning through the recent D&D FAQs and noticed they finally put it in the FAQ that Monks can use the Improved Nattural Attack feat. Really? Where did you see it? By the way, there's a weird ruling in the FAQ that clashes with everything we've been doing up to now. They claim that a mithral chain barding for a horse is 16,000gp. It's a real weird way of calculating the material cost I'm sure nobody ever thought of: 600gp for chain barding (150gpx4). Then take the 4000gp of mithral, remove 150gp of masterwork (=3,850), multiply by 4 (=15,400), add the price of chain barding (=600gp) and don't ask what happened to the 150gp masterwork cost. They also appear to say that a +1 keen psychokinetic longsword would cost the same as a +3 magical weapon, not the same as a +2 magical and +2 psionic weapon or some other combination. I say appear because they didn't say it as clearly as I just did. Sébastien Loisel
NiQil 10-06-05, 11:34 AM	Welcome back! Really? Where did you see it? By the way, there's a weird ruling in the FAQ that clashes with everything we've been doing up to now. They claim that a mithral chain barding for a horse is 16,000gp. It's a real weird way of calculating the material cost I'm sure nobody ever thought of: 600gp for chain barding (150gpx4). Then take the 4000gp of mithral, remove 150gp of masterwork (=3,850), multiply by 4 (=15,400), add the price of chain barding (=600gp) and don't ask what happened to the 150gp masterwork cost. They also appear to say that a +1 keen psychokinetic longsword would cost the same as a +3 magical weapon, not the same as a +2 magical and +2 psionic weapon or some other combination. I say appear because they didn't say it as clearly as I just did. Sébastien Loisel The ruling about Monks/INA isn't in the FAQ...it was something published by the Sage in the latest Dragon magazine....and has caused the WizO's to close more threads than I have ever seen with new debates about the topic.
NiQil 10-06-05, 12:20 PM	If a fighter is using a tower shield, what type of action (standard, full, etc) is required to use the tower shield for full cover?
Pittbull 10-06-05, 01:24 PM	If a fighter is using a tower shield, what type of action (standard, full, etc) is required to use the tower shield for full cover? A standart-action! @Motherbast: Welcome back!
King Uther 10-06-05, 01:49 PM	@Pittbull I love your use of the exclamation point. It makes you sound so upbeat and helpful.
Pitlords 10-06-05, 02:13 PM	What is the CoCo Ruling on Smokesticks? The SRD states that to use these you must ignite them. Can a gladiator use these in the arena, and if so then how? Draw smokestick, use smokestick. -ToK
MysticMonk2005 10-06-05, 02:21 PM	so was the RP thread deleted? Cause I dont see it anywhere.
King Uther 10-06-05, 02:32 PM	Huan and I are working on the new RP thread, called the World of Gladius thread. We're currently working on the world as a whole, then we're going to start incorporating the RP element more.
MysticMonk2005 10-06-05, 03:43 PM	It'll still be open to peoples random rp posts though right?
King Uther 10-06-05, 04:02 PM	It'll still be incoprorated, yes. Right now Quests and campaigns are the main way to RP though.
sloisel 10-06-05, 04:03 PM	The ruling about Monks/INA isn't in the FAQ...it was something published by the Sage in the latest Dragon magazine....and has caused the WizO's to close more threads than I have ever seen with new debates about the topic. Aha, and what's the ruling? Sébastien Loisel
NiQil 10-06-05, 04:06 PM	Aha, and what's the ruling? Sébastien Loisel That they can, just like we already allow.
Myrridin 10-06-05, 04:12 PM	Jindl's gone, huh? How did that happen? I guess I may have a little time to start up a new character on the old CoCo; could be interesting.
Sindorin 10-06-05, 04:22 PM	Wow, 3 people coming back or at least showing signs of life in ONE WEEK!! It's like a reunion or something.
sloisel 10-06-05, 04:28 PM	That they can, just like we already allow. So just to be clear, a monk that has 1d10 unarmed attacks can get 2d6 with INA? Sébastien Loisel
Pittbull 10-06-05, 04:28 PM	@Myrridin: Cool to see back again too. Jindl has left, because he's busy in RL. As Sindorin said, it very nice to see some old faces! A warm welcome to all of you! Just make or reactivate characters and jump into the rumble.....
NiQil 10-06-05, 04:34 PM	So just to be clear, a monk that has 1d10 unarmed attacks can get 2d6 with INA? Sébastien Loisel Yes and no. Yes, they can increase from 1d10, but not to 2d6....to 2d8. IMPROVED NATURAL ATTACK [GENERAL] Prerequisite: Natural weapon, base attack bonus +4. Benefit: Choose one of the creature’s natural attack forms. The damage for this natural weapon increases by one step, as if the creature’s size had increased by one category: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6. A weapon or attack that deals 1d10 points of damage increases as follows: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8. Emphasis mine. You would use whatever damage die the monk currently has (as it's normal damage), and then increase it one step based on the above progressions.
MotherBast 10-06-05, 06:51 PM	The above is correct. And as for where the FAQ can be found, its currently in Dragon Mag, but it will be online in a month or so. The FAQ you read online is taken directly from Dragon Mag, but they usually wait untill the next issues is released before they add the last issues questions to the online FAQ. Also note, this should be sort of obvious, but it was asked that if the INA feat creates the "effect" of incressing your damage, would that be suppressed in an AMF. (Antimagicfield) For the record, all feats are concidered Extroadanry Abilities, (with the exception of some non-core stuff) and the "effects" of Extro Abilites and nonmagical, and therefor not suppressed by AMF. And I do remember you Sin. Glad to see you still about. And ToK as well. LL, Pitbull... lots of peeps still here. Just reading over the New CoCo rules. I love the changes to the way you guys let readied actions work. That combined with the FAQ that says you can't attack at the end of a mounts double move should really make for more creative and intresting tactics than first turn kill builds and "ready to screw up his action" guys. I also see that some changes were made to the way HA, CU, and that kinda stuff works. Also good news. I hope druid Animal Companions weren't nerffed, or Pally mounts.... I am defanatly intregued by the advances made here. Maybe I'll get involved again sooner than I thought. It all looks good.
Snommelp 10-06-05, 10:33 PM	Another question: when you weild a two-handed weapon, your off-hand side is considered a light weapon. In a grapple, you can try to weild a light weapon against your opponent. Are these two rules compatible, or in other words, can you use your off-hand side of a two-handed weapon in a grapple? :bump:
TelinArtho 10-06-05, 10:42 PM	When you wield a two-handed weapon - there is no "off-hand" side - so no. /d
MysticMonk2005 10-06-05, 11:31 PM	hmmm wow, if two people showed up right after I did, maybe I ought to look into poofing and coming back to crank up our membership :P
Emrys Donovan 10-06-05, 11:48 PM	Anyone care to check out Led (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7438675&postcount=489)? Thanks, appreciate it.
sloisel 10-07-05, 05:26 AM	Another question: when you weild a two-handed weapon, your off-hand side is considered a light weapon. In a grapple, you can try to weild a light weapon against your opponent. Are these two rules compatible, or in other words, can you use your off-hand side of a two-handed weapon in a grapple? Where'd you get the idea that your off-hand is wielding a light weapon? That seems to go against the rules as I know them. Sébastien Loisel
Vathelokai 10-07-05, 05:49 AM	Anyone care to check out Led (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7438675&postcount=489)? Thanks, appreciate it. If you could put in the modifiers that create your attacks in silver, it would be handy. I think the profession could be more specific. You might want to pick up some of the standard magical defenses; synesthete to counter blinding, prot. evil to counter summoned monsters. A cognizance crystal might not be a bad investment, once you can augment your expansion power. Keep in mind that there is a 10% chance that the ML2 powerstones won't work. Love the adaman. greataxe with improved sunder.
Caterane 10-07-05, 05:57 AM	As it turned out, when my phone company said my connection will be accessable again within 2-7 days, they meant 2+7 days LOL At least, it works again and I will glance over the most important posts during the last week. I want to thank Tellish of Ket for jumping in during that time. I knew the CoCo would be in good hands. Thanks a lot, Ray! Motherbast, Myrridin, and MysticMonk... wow! It's really cool to hear from you again - I'm an absolute nostalgic guy - and I hope these won't stay the only posts of yours. The CoCo has changed drastically within the last 10 months and you would have to read over the teal-colored Rules of Gladius; the Advanced Rules too if you like. It's basically a new board compared to the "Classic CoCo" as we call the incarnation you played in. Make a character and give it a try. And of course to all the others: glad to see you again :)
Vathelokai 10-07-05, 07:09 AM	1: The presdigitation spell allows a caster to lift upto 1 lb. of material. The spell has a durration of 1 hour (not concentration). Could a caster use presti. to hold a scroll that she is casting, thus leaving one hand free to hold a weapon and one hand free to cast from the scroll? Could the caster use presti. to draw a scroll? Would this be a free action or a move action? 2: The ride skill says that you can ride an 'ill suited' creature. What types of creatures do they mean? Could I ride an ogre by using diplomacy instead of handle animal? Could I ride a mindless centipede, and if so, how would it be controlled? Is there any limit on what can be ridden? 3: If someone takes the improved familiar feat, do they have to use the unmodified creature from the monster manual? Specificly, can they use elite and/or advanced creatures? Since the list is organized by caster level, could we take this quote to mean that the imp. familiar feat could allow most any creature as long as there is a level prereq.? Could I pay credits/quest to use the feat in such a way? 4: When spell slots are lost (such as when sacrified for archmage/hierophant powers), are these spell slots no longer considered in the 1/3 rule equation? Are they considered prebuff slots, or are the no longer considered spell slots at all? Bump... To be more specific; 1: Anyone know the specific action types for using prestidigitation to hold/draw a scroll or other item? 2: A wizard builds an iron golem and takes the mounted combat feat. The wizard makes himself invisible and his hapless foe does not know he is upon the construct. Assuming a very high ride skill, the construct would be able to ignore damage from one attack per round. Is this correct? 3: Could an elder rule on getting a elite advanced creature with the improved familiar feat?
Tellish_of_Ket 10-07-05, 07:50 AM	Bump... To be more specific; 1: Anyone know the specific action types for using prestidigitation to hold/draw a scroll or other item? 2: A wizard builds an iron golem and takes the mounted combat feat. The wizard makes himself invisible and his hapless foe does not know he is upon the construct. Assuming a very high ride skill, the construct would be able to ignore damage from one attack per round. Is this correct? 3: Could an elder rule on getting a elite advanced creature with the improved familiar feat? 1. Very interesting. I would rule that it's there for your to use, just like a animated shield might always be there for your protection 2. An iron golem is not a mount. You would gain no benefit from the mounted combat feat while on the shoulders of an Iron Golem. 3. The improved familiar feat is pretty specific. You get the base creature. That's my take on it anyhow. -ToK
Vathelokai 10-07-05, 09:02 AM	1. Very interesting. I would rule that it's there for your to use, just like a animated shield might always be there for your protection 2. An iron golem is not a mount. You would gain no benefit from the mounted combat feat while on the shoulders of an Iron Golem. 3. The improved familiar feat is pretty specific. You get the base creature. That's my take on it anyhow. -ToK 1: Yeah, but having a dozen scrolls hovering around would be quite the target for the more sunder happy players. That's why I wonder about drawing an item with presti. If it's a free action, then every mage in the coliseum just got a bit more powerfull. 2: It's obvious that a gollem wouldn't be a mount. But there is no rule against it. At the risk of sounding like NiQil; why not? The only description of what a mount is that I can find is 'a creature 1 size catagory larger then yourself.' Since golems are under the control of their creator, they could be 'driven' around. And to belabor the point more, what about golems with an intellegence score? Would they be that much different then the magical beast mounts? 3: What caught my attention was imp. familiar: homunculous. It says that you have to create the homun. first. You could, in theory, build an advanced version (the only real benefit being an extra feat) before getting the imp. familiar feat.
Sindorin 10-07-05, 09:35 AM	As it turned out, when my phone company said my connection will be accessable again within 2-7 days, they meant 2+7 days LOL At least, it works again and I will glance over the most important posts during the last week. I want to thank Tellish of Ket for jumping in during that time. I knew the CoCo would be in good hands. Thanks a lot, Ray! Motherbast, Myrridin, and MysticMonk... wow! It's really cool to hear from you again - I'm an absolute nostalgic guy - and I hope these won't stay the only posts of yours. The CoCo has changed drastically within the last 10 months and you would have to read over the teal-colored Rules of Gladius; the Advanced Rules too if you like. It's basically a new board compared to the "Classic CoCo" as we call the incarnation you played in. Make a character and give it a try. And of course to all the others: glad to see you again :) Glad to see that everything worked out, Cat. Your griffon got petrified :D
NiQil 10-07-05, 10:30 AM	Where'd you get the idea that your off-hand is wielding a light weapon? That seems to go against the rules as I know them. Sébastien Loisel @ Telin and Sloisel Double Weapons: Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaffs, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he or she incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. Emphasis mine. The second "business end" of a double weapon is, indeed treated as a light weapon for purposes of two-weapon fighting.
TelinArtho 10-07-05, 10:33 AM	Only when you are wielding the weapon as a double weapon is there an off-hand side. So if you are two-weapon fighting with it - yes you have an off-hand side. However, once you start two-weapon fighting, you can't use it in a grapple: Attack Your Opponent: You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a –4 penalty on such attacks. You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons. If you aren't using it as two weapons, it is a two-handed weapon.
NiQil 10-07-05, 10:39 AM	Only when you are wielding the weapon as a double weapon is there an off-hand side. So if you are two-weapon fighting with it - yes you have an off-hand side. However, once you start two-weapon fighting, you can't use it in a grapple: If you aren't using it as two weapons, it is a two-handed weapon. Correct...however that wasn't the question. The question was, can you wield the weapon with both hands in a grapple, and attack *only with the offhand side, so that it counts as a light weapon? There is nothing about two weapon fighting that says you have to attack with both ends of the weapon for it to be two-weapon fighting...you just have to be wielding the weapon that way. If we take grappling out of the equation, would you allow someone wielding a double weapon to walk to someone else on the battlefield and attack them with the offhand side only? If so, would you make the attack as the offhand attack with appropriate penalties, or would you make it a two-handed attack, which is not their intent? I see no reason the off-hand attack cannot occur in that situation. So then throw grappling back into the situation. What changes that causes you to not be able to do the same thing?
TelinArtho 10-07-05, 10:44 AM	A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he or she incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. Only when you are fighting with both ends of the weapon is it considered a one-handed and a light weapon. If we take grappling out of the equation, would you allow someone wielding a double weapon to walk to someone else on the battlefield and attack them with the offhand side only? No. Because with a double weapon, the offhand "side" is only specified when you attack with two weapons. Double weapons don't have a "light" side and a "one-handed" side - you could use either end as a primary attack - but if you only attack with one side, you are using the weapon as a two-handed weapon.
NiQil 10-07-05, 10:45 AM	2: It's obvious that a gollem wouldn't be a mount. But there is no rule against it. At the risk of sounding like NiQil; why not? The only description of what a mount is that I can find is 'a creature 1 size catagory larger then yourself.' Since golems are under the control of their creator, they could be 'driven' around. And to belabor the point more, what about golems with an intellegence score? Would they be that much different then the magical beast mounts? I'm not certain if I should take this as a compliment or be offended....
NiQil 10-07-05, 10:48 AM	Only when you are fighting with both ends of the weapon is it considered a one-handed and a light weapon. No. Because with a double weapon, the offhand "side" is only specified when you attack with two weapons. Double weapons don't have a "light" side and a "one-handed" side - you could use either end as a primary attack - but if you only attack with one side, you are using the weapon as a two-handed weapon. You can use either end, yes...but not either hand. You still have a primary and off hand, regardless of which hand is wielding which end. And you are "fighting" with both ends...you just aren't "attacking" with both ends. They aren't the same. I can "fight" with two fists, but only "attack" with my off hand fist.
TelinArtho 10-07-05, 11:09 AM	Well, I guess you've wore me out - because I just don't care enough. Here's a quick synopsis of my argument. A double-weapon is a two-handed weapon. When you are two-weapon fighting, it is treated as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you are not two-weapon fighting - it is a two-handed weapon. You cannot two-weapon fight in a grapple - erego - you cannot use the "light" side of a double weapon. I'm done now though.
Myrridin 10-07-05, 11:18 AM	Now I'll admit I've been out of the game for awhile, but how is The Harvester3 casting Arcane spells from a scroll? It says in the SRD that you have to be of the appropriate caster type arcane/divine to use scrolls of that type. I'm seeing the 1 level of PsyWarrior, and the 1 level of Cleric...but I'm missing an arcane casting level that would give you that ability. If I'm off, let me know.
NiQil 10-07-05, 11:21 AM	Now I'll admit I've been out of the game for awhile, but how is The Harvester3 casting Arcane spells from a scroll? It says in the SRD that you have to be of the appropriate caster type arcane/divine to use scrolls of that type. I'm seeing the 1 level of PsyWarrior, and the 1 level of Cleric...but I'm missing an arcane casting level that would give you that ability. If I'm off, let me know. Clerical Magic domain lets you use arcane devices as a wizard of a level equal to half your cleric levels, but at least 1.
SoulLord 10-07-05, 11:26 AM	1. Very interesting. I would rule that it's there for your to use, just like a animated shield might always be there for your protection 2. An iron golem is not a mount. You would gain no benefit from the mounted combat feat while on the shoulders of an Iron Golem. 3. The improved familiar feat is pretty specific. You get the base creature. That's my take on it anyhow. -ToK I have to agree that an iron golem could be used as a mount. But I would ask at least for an Exotic riding Saddle.
Myrridin 10-07-05, 11:29 AM	Clerical Magic domain lets you use arcane devices as a wizard of a level equal to half your cleric levels, but at least 1. Ahh yeah, I'd forgotten about that. Thanks. Gotta love that domain. :P On a different note, I've posted my first character in over a year, and would like him active for next week's round of fights.
NiQil 10-07-05, 11:31 AM	Ahh yeah, I'd forgotten about that. Thanks. Gotta love that domain. :P On a different note, I've posted my first character in over a year, and would like him active for next week's round of fights. I noticed, with regard to your new character, that your two craft skills are incorrect.....they are 5+2+2=+9, not +10.
Myrridin 10-07-05, 11:37 AM	that's because I forgot to include the point into each I put from my wizard levels. thanks.
sloisel 10-07-05, 11:47 AM	What's the sneakiest you can be at ECL 3? I've got forest gnome, ranger, 18dex, feats stealthy and skill focus, competence bonus from item, enhancement bonus from item, but what else? Sébastien Loisel
SoulLord 10-07-05, 11:54 AM	What's the sneakiest you can be at ECL 3? I've got forest gnome, ranger, 18dex, feats stealthy and skill focus, competence bonus from item, enhancement bonus from item, but what else? Sébastien Loisel Halfling 20 dex for starters
Pittbull 10-07-05, 11:58 AM	@Sloisel: Or a goblin, he gets +2 on dex and a racial mod on move-silently. @Myrridin: If you make him a grey-elf, he's more intellegent.
Myrridin 10-07-05, 01:43 PM	@Myrridin: If you make him a grey-elf, he's more intellegent. Yeah, but then I lose 2 more Strength too...and I'm not sure if I want to make that trade off. I like having some more bonus damage. I'm considering it though. I have a little time to make up my mind I suppose.
sloisel 10-07-05, 01:45 PM	Halfling 20 dex for starters I actually meant for the skill hide, not move silently. Right now I'm at 6rnks+4dex+4race+4size+2stealthy+3skillf ocus+5cloakofelvenkind =+28 hide with a tattoo of chameleon as an expandable for another +10 enhancement to hide. Did I miss anything? I'm trying to snipe. Sébastien Loisel
SoulLord 10-07-05, 02:09 PM	I actually meant for the skill hide, not move silently. Right now I'm at 6rnks+4dex+4race+4size+2stealthy+3skillf ocus+5cloakofelvenkind =+28 hide with a tattoo of chameleon as an expandable for another +10 enhancement to hide. Did I miss anything? I'm trying to snipe. Sébastien Loisel Exilir of Hiding. after this you need places to hide. scroll of obscuring mist and the like.
NiQil 10-07-05, 02:18 PM	If a wizard or sorcerer has the Weapon Finesse feat, am I correct in thinking that this would let them use their Dex modifier for touch attacks as well as for ranged touch attacks (that normally use Dex)?
SoulLord 10-07-05, 02:20 PM	If a wizard or sorcerer has the Weapon Finesse feat, am I correct in thinking that this would let them use their Dex modifier for touch attacks as well as for ranged touch attacks (that normally use Dex)? Yes. I was very tempted to take the feat specially considering the lousy str score of my character....
KerlanRayne 10-07-05, 03:10 PM	2. An iron golem is not a mount. You would gain no benefit from the mounted combat feat while on the shoulders of an Iron Golem.Here's a quote from the Rules of the Game article on familiars. Protection from Physical Threats Even with its increased Armor Class and hit points, a familiar is even more vulnerable to melee and ranged attacks than you are. Since most familiars are size Tiny or smaller, the familiar can share your space. This doesn't provide the familiar with cover or any special defense, but at least you'll be on hand to intervene if the familiar gets into trouble. You might want to consider letting your familiar use you as a mount. If it does so, it can make a Ride check to claim cover (+4 to Armor Class) for 1 round. This is "soft" cover, and the familiar does not get a bonus on Reflex saves while claiming cover from you. The familiar cannot attack while claiming cover from you, but that's usually not a problem. Remember that if you have the Ride skill, the familiar can use your ranks (and its Dexterity score) to make Ride checks.I find this very interesting. KerlanRayne
sloisel 10-07-05, 04:11 PM	Here's a quote from the Rules of the Game article on familiars. I find this very interesting. I'll be damned. I for one welcome our new wizard 1/fighter 2 unhittable overlords. Edit: Ok, the familiars are unlikely to have the combat riding feat... But spurring is fair game! Edit2: And I can't wait for the wizards wearing exotic saddles on their backs. Sébastien Loisel
Usurpator 10-07-05, 05:27 PM	Here's a quote from the Rules of the Game article on familiars. I find this very interesting. KerlanRayne Is that the same article that claimed you can Sunder familiars.... Just crazy stuff, how do they come up with it....
SoulLord 10-07-05, 06:42 PM	quick question would an ettin sorcerer be able to cast true strike with one head/hand and then power attack/true strike with the other head/hand?
Tellish_of_Ket 10-07-05, 07:29 PM	quick question would an ettin sorcerer be able to cast true strike with one head/hand and then power attack/true strike with the other head/hand? Without researching, just off the top of my head, i would say yes. Both heads speak/think independently of each other. I would even go as far as saying he could cast two fireballs etc...per round. But then again, i could be way off as well. Here's a quote from the Rules of the Game article on familiars. I find this very interesting. KerlanRayne Oh, i have no problems with that. That is the RIDER taking cover on his MOUNT. What he could not do, is use the MOUNTED COMBAT feat to make his master move out of the way to avoid an attack. Which is what i was getting at in my first post. I'll be damned. I for one welcome our new wizard 1/fighter 2 unhittable overlords. Edit: Ok, the familiars are unlikely to have the combat riding feat... But spurring is fair game! Edit2: And I can't wait for the wizards wearing exotic saddles on their backs. Sébastien Loisel Hey Seb, I think you're reading too much into it. What the Rules of The Game imply is that the familiar himself can duck around the master to take cover, not use a mounted combat feat for the master to avoid getting hit. I would not read it anything beyond that. -ToK
SauroGrenom 10-07-05, 07:33 PM	Monk Unarmed Damage and Psychic Warrior Claws of the Beast. Do these two weapons stack? So if a monk takes levels in PsyWarrior, can he add the claws damage to his unarmed strikes? I'd guess that they are two different weapons, but I'd like to hear the opinions of others.
Maraxus 10-07-05, 08:01 PM	Definitly, that are two diffrent weapons, a Lizardman (I'm not pc. enought to call them lizardfolk) - Monk does not add his claw damage to unarmed strikes, too. Well, I had planned to make my next character a summoning focussing druid, but when I see the latest characters, I'm not so sure anymore - there are some of that archetype at the moment. :) Well, let's see where is a lack - bards of cause ... and rogues.
NiQil 10-08-05, 02:42 AM	Question regarding wizards In order for a wizard to use a wand, the spell must be on their spell list, correct? Tell me if this situation works: A wizard gets a hold of a bardic scroll of cure light wounds, and procedes to scribe it into his spellbook. He can now memorize this spell and cast it if he chooses. Now that this spell is in his spellbook, is he now able to use scrolls, wands, etc with this spell in it? In other words, does scribing a spell into your spellbook place that spell onto your spell list (as it is used for spell trigger activation)?
The Undershadow 10-08-05, 02:58 AM	I think the spell that you plan to scribe into your spellbook has to be from the Wizard's overall spell list.
Snommelp 10-08-05, 03:01 AM	I know that it shouldn't work, but I can't find any rules contesting it, NiQil. The best I can find is that in the Scroll section of the SRD it says that you can't activate a scroll unless it's on your spell list. I suppose you could argue that writing it into your spellbook is theoretically the same as activating it... Or we could say that it's a prohibited school, which would make it illegal, as well. I think that's the better argument.
NiQil 10-08-05, 03:07 AM	Doesn't say that, as far as I can tell... Spells Copied from Another’s Spellbook or a Scroll: A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Next, she must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell’s level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from her specialty school. She cannot, however, learn any spells from her prohibited schools. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into her spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, below). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment. If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. She cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until she gains another rank in Spellcraft. A spell that was being copied from a scroll does not vanish from the scroll. In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to the spell’s level x50 gp. As long as it's an arcane scroll, it doesn't matter where it came from. Bards cast cure light wounds as an arcane spell, and cure light wounds is on the arcane scroll list. So wizards can definitely use the scroll, and they can definitely scribe it into their spellbook. The point I am trying to get clarified is whether or not being in their spellbook now allows them to use spell trigger items, such as wands, or if it specifically has to be listed on the wizard list, with the wizard's personal spellbook being disregarded in this instance.
NiQil 10-08-05, 03:12 AM	I know that it shouldn't work, but I can't find any rules contesting it, NiQil. The best I can find is that in the Scroll section of the SRD it says that you can't activate a scroll unless it's on your spell list. I suppose you could argue that writing it into your spellbook is theoretically the same as activating it... Or we could say that it's a prohibited school, which would make it illegal, as well. I think that's the better argument. Except that wouldn't work unless you are dealing with a specialist wizard that has that school excluded. A generalist wizard has no prohibited schools. Bear in mind here that I am not talking about using scrolls of the spell. Scrolls are spell completion items. I am referring to spell trigger items, such as wands. Cure light wounds is the easiest example, but there are others. No one will dispute that an arcane scroll of cure light wounds can be scribed into a wizard's spellbook. The only question is whether or not being in the spellbook adds that spell to your spell list or not.
Snommelp 10-08-05, 03:31 AM	Except that wouldn't work unless you are dealing with a specialist wizard that has that school excluded. A generalist wizard has no prohibited schools.Just double-checked, and since the cure spells are listed as conjurations, I have to agree with you.Bear in mind here that I am not talking about using scrolls of the spell. Scrolls are spell completion items. I am referring to spell trigger items, such as wands. Cure light wounds is the easiest example, but there are others. No one will dispute that an arcane scroll of cure light wounds can be scribed into a wizard's spellbook. The only question is whether or not being in the spellbook adds that spell to your spell list or not.Oh, I'd like to argue that cure spells can't be scribed into spellbooks. Unfortunately, I don't know how. What I do know is that the spell lists are what they are; if cure spells can be copied into spellbooks, that still doesn't change the spell list without a house rule. The reasoning is thus: the spell list is the list of spells available for all wizards to choose from as "free" when leveling. If copying a bard scroll into a wizard's spell book changed the spell list, it would change it for everyone, and new wizards could learn the spell without having to go through a bard scroll.
NiQil 10-08-05, 05:11 AM	Just double-checked, and since the cure spells are listed as conjurations, I have to agree with you.Oh, I'd like to argue that cure spells can't be scribed into spellbooks. Unfortunately, I don't know how. What I do know is that the spell lists are what they are; if cure spells can be copied into spellbooks, that still doesn't change the spell list without a house rule. The reasoning is thus: the spell list is the list of spells available for all wizards to choose from as "free" when leveling. If copying a bard scroll into a wizard's spell book changed the spell list, it would change it for everyone, and new wizards could learn the spell without having to go through a bard scroll. I actually agree with you....but it's yet another loophole that needs to be ruled on (like the whole wand-wielding in the hand that holds a light shield issue I brought up a bit ago). I think that the spell list is treated as is, regardless of what is in the wizard's book. But nowhere does it state that that is true, nor that it is false. Hence the reason I threw it out there to be looked at. There is no disputing that a wizard could scribe an arcane scroll of cure light wounds into his spellbook and personally be able to cast it, or personally craft it into a scroll for himself. But does that cause it to be added to his spell list? That's what needs to be ruled on.
Usurpator 10-08-05, 05:12 AM	Question regarding wizards In order for a wizard to use a wand, the spell must be on their spell list, correct? Tell me if this situation works: A wizard gets a hold of a bardic scroll of cure light wounds, and procedes to scribe it into his spellbook. He can now memorize this spell and cast it if he chooses. Now that this spell is in his spellbook, is he now able to use scrolls, wands, etc with this spell in it? In other words, does scribing a spell into your spellbook place that spell onto your spell list (as it is used for spell trigger activation)? Spellbook != spell list, a spell list is that long list in the PHB. A wizard can only scribe scrolls into his spellbook that are on his spell list. Cure light wounds is not on his spell list, he wouldn't even know what level of spell it would be for him.
NiQil 10-08-05, 05:18 AM	Spellbook != spell list, a spell list is that long list in the PHB. A wizard can only scribe scrolls into his spellbook that are on his spell list. Cure light wounds is not on his spell list, he wouldn't even know what level of spell it would be for him. Not true. Read the post a few above this one that quotes from the SRD. A wizard can scribe any arcane scroll into his spell book, regardless of source. Bards can cast cure light wounds as an arcane spell, and can scribe it as such. Cure light wounds is listed on the arcane scroll list in the SRD. The quote I posted from the SRD states that it can be any arcane scroll, regardless of source. Edit: Here's the quote again, so you don't have to hunt for it. Spells Copied from Another’s Spellbook or a Scroll: A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Next, she must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell’s level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from her specialty school. She cannot, however, learn any spells from her prohibited schools. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into her spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, below). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment. If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. She cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until she gains another rank in Spellcraft. A spell that was being copied from a scroll does not vanish from the scroll. In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to the spell’s level x50 gp.
sloisel 10-08-05, 05:34 AM	A wizard can scribe any arcane scroll into his spell book, regardless of source. Bards can cast cure light wounds as an arcane spell, and can scribe it as such. Cure light wounds is listed on the arcane scroll list in the SRD. You can try that crap on your DM if you like, but I guarantee this ain't gonna fly in here. Sébastien Loisel
NiQil 10-08-05, 05:42 AM	You can try that crap on your DM if you like, but I guarantee this ain't gonna fly in here. Sébastien Loisel First off, there is no need to be vulgar. Secondly, I fail to see how scribing a scroll that is listed on the arcane list into an arcane spellbook violates the rules. Is there a rule somewhere that says that you can only scribe scrolls into your spellbook that are on your spell list? According to the SRD (the quote I provided), the source of the scroll does not matter, as long as it is an arcane scroll. So please back up your statements with facts, rather than rhetoric.
sloisel 10-08-05, 05:50 AM	First off, there is no need to be vulgar. Didn't mean it to be vulgar, apologies. Cheers, Sébastien Loisel
Tellish_of_Ket 10-08-05, 10:16 AM	First off, there is no need to be vulgar. Secondly, I fail to see how scribing a scroll that is listed on the arcane list into an arcane spellbook violates the rules. Is there a rule somewhere that says that you can only scribe scrolls into your spellbook that are on your spell list? According to the SRD (the quote I provided), the source of the scroll does not matter, as long as it is an arcane scroll. So please back up your statements with facts, rather than rhetoric. Ok, time for me to step in. PHB page 99, Scribe Scroll: "You can create a scroll of any spell you know." Page 178- 179 ...allow wizards to learn and add spells to their spell books in three ways: 1) gain two spells of levels they can cast from their spell list when gaining a level, 2) decipher and study spells from their spell list (none from a prohibited school) from a scroll or borrowed spellbook, or 3) magical research of an existing wizard spell or one that the DM allows to be created and added to the wizard's spell list. Bards do not have spellbooks, so trying to loophole the fact that you are borrowing a bard's spellbook simply won't work either. The spell in you intend to scribe into your spellbook (via scroll) as you can see MUST be in your spell list. Since we don't incorporate magical research, option 3 is obviously out. Contrary to what you say, there is no house rule required by anyone. It's laid out in black and white. From your SRD quote, you failed to bold the following "(see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, below)" Which you must still follow the guidelines therein. The no matter the source is very open-ended and can imply arcane writings upon a cave wall for example, or stone tablets, or a multitude of other possible sources. But either way, the point is moot as the PHB is very clear, it needs to be from your spell list. -ToK
King Uther 10-08-05, 10:51 AM	In addition, the English language clears this one up a bit. No matter what the source is not a phrase modifiyng the previous sentence(A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook.), but the following independent clause, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above).
Tellish_of_Ket 10-08-05, 11:10 AM	Actually, i'm just re-re-reading what i wrote and can't seem to find "from their spell list". Blinded by RAI maybe? Maybe. I will continue my research into this subject. -ToK
Tellish_of_Ket 10-08-05, 11:26 AM	ok...found what i was looking at and intended to say, so let me clear it up. From PHB: Wizards "Spells: A wizard casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/ wizard spell list. " So, when you're reading about adding spells to your spellbook, they must be from drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, end of story. Otherwise, i can carry on withy my usual sillyness of rules-bending to quote and say, "Spells Gained at a New Level: Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, she gains two spells of her choice to add to her spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels she can cast. If she has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from her specialty school." Ok, so when i get to level 3, i'm gonna take Cure Moderate Wounds and Summon Nature's Ally II. Hey, no matter how hard you look in that section, it never mentions a darn thing about spell list...so it's ok then right? WRONG!!! -ToK
King Uther 10-08-05, 11:26 AM	Okay, let me re-phrase what I said for clear understanding. What it didn't say: A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, These phrases are not connected. Please note the period after spellbook. What it did say: No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). This is one full sentence, and the phrase no matter what the spell's source comes into meaning. It means that regardless of where the spell came from, you still have to decipher it.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-08-05, 11:29 AM	Okay, let me re-phrase what I said for clear understanding. What it didn't say: A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, These phrases are not connected. Please note the period after spellbook. What it did say: No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). This is one full sentence, and the phrase no matter what the spell's source comes into meaning. It means that regardless of where the spell came from, you still have to decipher it. Yes, i added a post after my itty-bitty tiny moment of doubt. Since this is a new page i'll re-post it here. But just for the record, you're saying that if they decipher the scroll of arcane CLW, they can add it to their spellbook correct? ok...found what i was looking at and intended to say, so let me clear it up. From PHB: Wizards "Spells: A wizard casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/ wizard spell list. " So, when you're reading about adding spells to your spellbook, they must be from drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, end of story. Otherwise, i can carry on withy my usual sillyness of rules-bending to quote and say, "Spells Gained at a New Level: Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, she gains two spells of her choice to add to her spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels she can cast. If she has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from her specialty school." Ok, so when i get to level 3, i'm gonna take Cure Moderate Wounds and Summon Nature's Ally II. Hey, no matter how hard you look in that section, it never mentions a darn thing about spell list...so it's ok then right? WRONG!!! -ToK -ToK
Tellish_of_Ket 10-08-05, 12:08 PM	More supporting documentation to support the "Anti-CLW for Wizards" movement. The question was answered back in the 3.0 FAQ, page 42: ********* Q: Is it possible for wizards to cast curative spells such as cure moderate wounds or cure light wounds? It seems that they can under the right circumstances. Suppose Willie, a halfling bard in my party, has the Scribe Scroll feat. The Player's Handbook says wizards, sorcerers, and bards all cast arcane magic. That means the cure spells a bard casts are arcane and not divine regardless of what the spell is, right? That also means that if Willie scribes a scroll with cure light wounds on it, the scroll will still be an arcane scroll. If that's correct, it means that if my wizard gets the cure light wounds scroll from Willie, he can scribe it into his spellbook and then prepare it as an arcane spell that he can use time and time again, right? A: You can't read a spell off a scroll unless the spell is on your class list (see page 203 in the DUNGEON MASTER's Guide). You also cannot scribe a spell into your book unless it's on your class list. Only another bard can use Willie's cure light wounds scrolls (because bards are the only arcane casters who have cure spells on their class lists). Remember that spell trigger items, such as wands, do not come in arcane or divine versions. If a bard makes a wand of cure light wounds, any character who has cure light wounds on his spell list can use the wand.
King Uther 10-08-05, 12:39 PM	No no no no, that's not what I was trying to say. I was saying the phrase, 'No matter what the spell's source', was modifying the decipher part, meaning a wizard must always decipher a scroll, no matter what the spell's source. It does not mean he can copy any arcane scroll, and to assume it does is misinterpreting the text. And as you did with your post, as a Bible scholar you learn that you should always use clear texts to help define unclear ones. We agree, but it sure is fun to keep pointing out different ways in which we are right. And in case it wasn't apparent for any readers.... NO CURE SPELLS CAN BE COPIED INTO A WIZARD'S SCROLLBOOK!
Snommelp 10-08-05, 02:08 PM	All right, now that that's out of the way... I've never played a paladin before, so the whole "smiting" thing has me a bit confused. The rules say that a paladin can make an attempt once per day. However, it doesn't say what happens if the attempt fails. Is it like a touch spell, and the effect sticks around? Is it a one-shot deal and if you miss, too bad?
Guildlords 10-08-05, 07:56 PM	Is it possible to merge two picture together to some kind of slide-show; you know, that the pix switch back and forth? Ok, I know it's possible. Question is: can anyone do that? Cat
LongArcher 10-08-05, 09:29 PM	About Grappling and Weapon Finesse. Since I was put in prison for this, I thought that the topic had been discussed quite thoroughly and it was deemed that grapple checks are like attack rolls and similar feats and bonuses that would affect an attack roll, likewise affect grapple checks. Which brings me to my point. Scorpions have weapon finesse and are a grappling creature. In their stat-blocks it states that they can use either dex or str for grappling, whichever is higher. So why can't I? /amz
TheMagister 10-08-05, 11:43 PM	I've got a problem. Vandelar's tactics have him casting spectral hand on his familiar Ganon (I presume so that Ganon can manipulate the hand). The spell doesn't say that it can't be used in this fashion (although this usage is highly suspect). The problem that I have is this: Ganon has an intelligence of 8. Yeah, it's a smart hawk, but it can't even cast the spell, much less control it. How should I handle this? TM
Luni 10-08-05, 11:54 PM	I've got a problem. Vandelar's tactics have him casting spectral hand on his familiar Ganon (I presume so that Ganon can manipulate the hand). The spell doesn't say that it can't be used in this fashion (although this usage is highly suspect). The problem that I have is this: Ganon has an intelligence of 8. Yeah, it's a smart hawk, but it can't even cast the spell, much less control it. How should I handle this? TM Why does Vandelar need two spectral hands? He gets one, and the hawk gets one. For as long as the spell lasts, any touch range spell of 4th level or lower that you cast can be delivered by the spectral hand Unless the familiar has taken up spellcasting, it can't deliver spells through the spectral hand.
NiQil 10-09-05, 12:01 AM	About Grappling and Weapon Finesse. Since I was put in prison for this, I thought that the topic had been discussed quite thoroughly and it was deemed that grapple checks are like attack rolls and similar feats and bonuses that would affect an attack roll, likewise affect grapple checks. Which brings me to my point. Scorpions have weapon finesse and are a grappling creature. In their stat-blocks it states that they can use either dex or str for grappling, whichever is higher. So why can't I? /amz As much as I would love for it to be this way, it changed from 3.0 to 3.5. In 3.0, you could apply any modifiers (such as finesse) to your grapple checks because grapple checks were classified as opposed attack rolls. However, in 3.5 that changed to them just being opposed checks, which removed the ability to modify the grapple modifier in that way, since Finesse only applies to attack rolls.
TheMagister 10-09-05, 12:20 AM	Why does Vandelar need two spectral hands? He gets one, and the hawk gets one. The single casting of spectral hand won't yield two controllable hands, just as if the familiar had also cast the spell, will it? That just seems like too much (WAY abusable). If this is so, I'm making a mage for my next character. Unless the familiar has taken up spellcasting, it can't deliver spells through the spectral hand. And if his tactics say to do this? I'm leaning toward just letting him fall on his face with the spectral hand thing. His melee touch attack bonus sucks b/c of his low strength. He's far better off letting his familiar deliver touch spells until he gets weapon finesse himself as a feat. TM
Luni 10-09-05, 12:36 AM	The single casting of spectral hand won't yield two controllable hands, just as if the familiar had also cast the spell, will it? That just seems like too much (WAY abusable). If this is so, I'm making a mage for my next character. The spell is shared. Therefore, two hands are created. Since the familiar can't cast spells it isn't a big deal. And if his tactics say to do this? I'm leaning toward just letting him fall on his face with the spectral hand thing. His melee touch attack bonus sucks b/c of his low strength. He's far better off letting his familiar deliver touch spells until he gets weapon finesse himself as a feat. TM Well, the hand gets a +2 bonus and all the attacks are incorporeal. Most characters AC are about 10-14 from Touch Attacks. You could always let him know so he could write up new tactics. These are just my opinions. I think letting a familiar deliver spells via Spectral Hand is a bit much. Now, if someone had Imbue with Spell Ability, and cast that on a familiar with Spectral Hand out, the familiar could cast and deliver his own touch spells.
Snommelp 10-09-05, 12:44 AM	All right, now that that's out of the way... I've never played a paladin before, so the whole "smiting" thing has me a bit confused. The rules say that a paladin can make an attempt once per day. However, it doesn't say what happens if the attempt fails. Is it like a touch spell, and the effect sticks around? Is it a one-shot deal and if you miss, too bad? :bump:
TheMagister 10-09-05, 12:48 AM	The spell is shared. Therefore, two hands are created. Since the familiar can't cast spells it isn't a big deal. Well, the hand gets a +2 bonus and all the attacks are incorporeal. Most characters AC are about 10-14 from Touch Attacks. You could always let him know so he could write up new tactics. These are just my opinions. I think letting a familiar deliver spells via Spectral Hand is a bit much. Now, if someone had Imbue with Spell Ability, and cast that on a familiar with Spectral Hand out, the familiar could cast and deliver his own touch spells. If you'll even give him THAT much, I'm starting to lean towards his interpretation of the share spells/deliver touch spells master/familiar relationship. A quick read through the "Familiars" sidebar in the PHB pg. 53 really does point toward a familiar being designated the "toucher" and being able to deliver the spell "just as the master could". Holy crow... I think I just had an arcanagasm. TM
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 12:49 AM	Spectral Hand Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Effect: One spectral hand Duration: 1 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: NoShare Spells: At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself. A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiar’s type (magical beast).Since the effect of the spell is only '1 spectral hand', even if the spell was shared, it would still produce only one hand. I would rule that he can cast the spell, creating the hand from his familiar's essence, and under the familiar's control, but the second the familiar left Vandalar's space, the spell would be dismissed.
NiQil 10-09-05, 12:52 AM	:bump: Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day. At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: The Paladin, to a maximum of five times per day at 20th level. Since the ability states that it is used up even if it has no effect on a non-evil creature, I think it safe to assume that it is used regardless of whether you hit or miss. Especially since it also says you can attempt this once per day (at first level)...it would say that it is kept until it connects if that was the way it was supposed to be. In a nutshell, use it and lose it, regardless of it connecting or not. That's how I've always done it, anyway.
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 12:54 AM	:bump: Since the wording says 'paladins may attempt to smite 1/day, I'd guess that it does not work like a charged touch. If the attempt ends up missing, then the '1 attempt per day' has been used up.
Snommelp 10-09-05, 12:56 AM	All right, thanks guys. Now I can get back to finishing Sam and Aerandir's quest... I hope...
Tellish_of_Ket 10-09-05, 01:09 AM	As much as I would love for it to be this way, it changed from 3.0 to 3.5. In 3.0, you could apply any modifiers (such as finesse) to your grapple checks because grapple checks were classified as opposed attack rolls. However, in 3.5 that changed to them just being opposed checks, which removed the ability to modify the grapple modifier in that way, since Finesse only applies to attack rolls. Well, that brings up an interesting point actually. Looking at the scorpions it does seem as though they use their weapon finesse ability in their grapples. And we've all agreed that opposed grapple checks are like attack rolls. I will have to do a bit more digging however before i give my conclusions at least. -ToK
NiQil 10-09-05, 01:14 AM	Well, that brings up an interesting point actually. Looking at the scorpions it does seem as though they use their weapon finesse ability in their grapples. And we've all agreed that opposed grapple checks are like attack rolls. I will have to do a bit more digging however before i give my conclusions at least. -ToK I would love for it to be so.....but I believe it was Cerebus that found a quote in the 3.5 FAQ that says they are no longer opposed attack roles....they now fall into their own category as opposed checks (but not opposed skill checks). I argued strenuously that we *could finesse grapple checks, but got shot down. So feel free to investigate....would increase the viability of Axhind greatly.
NiQil 10-09-05, 01:21 AM	Here is the relevant quote, from page 13 of the FAQ I have a monk with the Vow of Poverty feat (from Book of Exalted Deeds). Does the exalted strike bonus apply to grapple, sunder, disarm, and trip attempts? The exalted strike bonus gained by a character who has taken Vow Of Poverty applies only on attack and damage rolls. Unless something is described as an attack roll or a damage roll, the bonus doesn't apply. * The touch attack made to start a grapple is an attack roll (so the bonus would apply to this roll), but a grapple check is not an attack roll, and thus the bonus wouldn't apply to the grapple check. Likewise, the touch attack made to start a trip attack would gain the bonus, but the Strength check you make to trip the defender is not an attack roll and wouldn't gain the bonus. * To attempt a disarm attack or a sunder attack, you make an attack roll opposed by the defender's attack roll, so the exalted strike bonus would apply. Emphasis mine. Even though they are talking about a different feat, Weapon Finesse operates in the same way...it applies to all attack rolls. But, as stated above, grapple checks are no longer considered attack rolls. As much as I hate to admit it, no dice on the Finessed grapple checks.
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 01:59 AM	It seems the problem is that unarmed strikes are defined as light weapons, but in some uses they are not considered light weapons. Blasted editors! The scorpion grapple finesse wouldn't be the only error in the monster manuel...there's a ton of them. You could always get the feat 'weapon focus: grapple' instead of weapon finesse.
Gonbow 10-09-05, 01:59 AM	What about the 'house rule' of monks flurrying grapples then? I mean, if they are not even attacks... I'm all for monk uberness (As I have one, and a fragile one at that) but whats the status, jack? Ain't that a bit hypocritical?
Tellish_of_Ket 10-09-05, 02:04 AM	About Spectral Hand: Only one hand is produced. If you give it to your familiar, he's S.O.L. Even if you shared your touch spells, your familiar could not use the spectral hand to attack, becuase it is only from spells that YOU cast. Sharing a spell is not considered the caster. @Grappling/Finesse: You might be right. Seemed fishy and far-fetched to me, but i'm still looking into it. Seems like i'm just gonna run into a brick wall though. What about the 'house rule' of monks flurrying grapples then? I mean, if they are not even attacks... I'm all for monk uberness (As I have one, and a fragile one at that) but whats the status, jack? Ain't that a bit hypocritical? As per the quote in the above post, it would seem there is no flurry/grapple either. Which i would actually support wholeheartedly. -ToK
Luni 10-09-05, 02:06 AM	Improved Grab (Ex) To use this ability, a monstrous scorpion must hit with a claw attack. A monstrous scorpion can use either its Strength modifier or Dexterity modifier for grapple checks, whichever is better. Perhaps it is a special ability thanks to Improved Grab.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-09-05, 02:07 AM	Perhaps it is a special ability thanks to Improved Grab. Or poor editing? -ToK
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 02:19 AM	Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Effect: One spectral hand Duration: 1 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No A ghostly, glowing hand shaped from your life force materializes and moves as you desire, allowing you to deliver low-level, touch range spells at a distance. On casting the spell, you lose 1d4 hit points that return when the spell ends (even if it is dispelled), but not if the hand is destroyed. (The hit points can be healed as normal.) For as long as the spell lasts, any touch range spell of 4th level or lower that you cast can be delivered by the spectral hand. The spell gives you a +2 bonus on your melee touch attack roll, and attacking with the hand counts normally as an attack. The hand always strikes from your direction. The hand cannot flank targets like a creature can. After it delivers a spell, or if the hand goes beyond the spell range, goes out of your sight, the hand returns to you and hovers. The hand is incorporeal and thus cannot be harmed by normal weapons. It has improved evasion (half damage on a failed Reflex save and no damage on a successful save), your save bonuses, and an AC of at least 22. Your Intelligence modifier applies to the hand’s AC as if it were the hand’s Dexterity modifier. The hand has 1 to 4 hit points, the same number that you lost in creating it.Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master could. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.It seems to me that a familiar could use spectral had to deliver touch spells, though I do see what ToK is saying. But to counter, I have always assumed that the familiar and master were considered one entity, and that for intents and purposes the familiar 'might as well be the caster' as it pertains to spell descriptions. Seems that a literal reading of the rules would make me wrong...though it dosn't seem right for some reason.Share Spells: At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself. A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiar’s type (magical beast).Further a literal reading of shared spells would indicate that spectral hand could not be cast on the familiar at all. The spell has no target, has a range, and has an effect of '1 hand'. Since the spell is not technicly cast on the master, it could not be shared. This also seems strange, since the effect has a definite effect on the caster.
Luni 10-09-05, 02:19 AM	In the question above the Sage states, “The ammunition prices for special materials are per piece. A single adamantine arrow costs 61 gp. Twenty such arrows would cost 1,220 gp (not 1,201 gp).” Does that apply to all special materials, or just those that are automatically masterwork, or just those that have an addition to the cost rather than a multiplier? Unless stated otherwise, any time an item cost modifier is provided for ammunition, it applies to each piece. Each adamantine arrow costs +60 gp. Each cold iron arrow costs 1 sp (twice as much as a normal arrow). Each alchemical silver arrow costs +2 gp. Hmm. The price of arrows went up.
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 02:23 AM	Hmm. The price of arrows went up. So Denshi only has 1 adaman. arrow?!?! That's just lovely.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-09-05, 02:25 AM	Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Effect: One spectral hand Duration: 1 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No A ghostly, glowing hand shaped from your life force materializes and moves as you desire, allowing you to deliver low-level, touch range spells at a distance. On casting the spell, you lose 1d4 hit points that return when the spell ends (even if it is dispelled), but not if the hand is destroyed. (The hit points can be healed as normal.) For as long as the spell lasts, any touch range spell of 4th level or lower that you cast can be delivered by the spectral hand. The spell gives you a +2 bonus on your melee touch attack roll, and attacking with the hand counts normally as an attack. The hand always strikes from your direction. The hand cannot flank targets like a creature can. After it delivers a spell, or if the hand goes beyond the spell range, goes out of your sight, the hand returns to you and hovers. The hand is incorporeal and thus cannot be harmed by normal weapons. It has improved evasion (half damage on a failed Reflex save and no damage on a successful save), your save bonuses, and an AC of at least 22. Your Intelligence modifier applies to the hand’s AC as if it were the hand’s Dexterity modifier. The hand has 1 to 4 hit points, the same number that you lost in creating it.Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master could. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.It seems to me that a familiar could use spectral had to deliver touch spells, though I do see what ToK is saying. But to counter, I have always assumed that the familiar and master were considered one entity, and that for intents and purposes the familiar 'might as well be the caster' as it pertains to spell descriptions. Seems that a literal reading of the rules would make me wrong...though it dosn't seem right for some reason.Share Spells: At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself. A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiar’s type (magical beast).Further a literal reading of shared spells would indicate that spectral hand could not be cast on the familiar at all. The spell has no target, has a range, and has an effect of '1 hand'. Since the spell is not technicly cast on the master, it could not be shared. This also seems strange, since the effect has a definite effect on the caster. To use the spectral hand to deliver a touch spell, the spell must be cast by YOU...not shared or designated or anything like that. YOU must be the caster. The spectral hand (or extra spectral hand) upon the familiar would be wasted. Even if you designate it as the toucher, it doesn't meet the criteria of Spectral Hand in that the spell was not cast by the familiar. Give it "imbue with spell ability" and now that all changes. -ToK
Snommelp 10-09-05, 02:27 AM	Grik's sold some stuff, so he's got just over 3000 gp to spend. I can't decide whether to use it to enchant Luk Bo or to increase Grik's AC...
Luni 10-09-05, 02:28 AM	So Denshi only has 1 adaman. arrow?!?! That's just lovely. I got 4 adamantine bolts though! Thats 240 gp. I'm rich. Ok. Maybe I shouldn't of brought that up now. I just found it interesting while we were discussing rules...
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 02:28 AM	And what do you say to spectral hand being cast on a familiar in the first place? Seems that shouldn't be allowed, if I'm reading correctly (see bottom of above post)?
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 02:31 AM	I got 4 adamantine bolts though! Thats 240 gp. I'm rich. Ok. Maybe I shouldn't of brought that up now. I just found it interesting while we were discussing rules... And we could never have afforded the 20 arrows for Nic (That would have cost 1202gp or so.), only about 5. So we stand unarmed...Maybe we should hear back from ToK before running away. Unless I've miscalculated, we can do 120 dmg if we roll max damage every round. It has more HP then that. Hmmm....
TheMagister 10-09-05, 02:48 AM	As far as the spectral hand thing goes, I'm totally against it. It seems far too abusable to me. I mean, according to Luni, a caster could: 1) go invisible 2) cast spectral hand and share it to get two hands 3) charge one hand with a spell 4) charge the other with a spell 5) super-bum-rush a target with two touch spells in a single round. It's just not right. I just can't prove otherwise. The best argument I've heard against it is that spectral hand doesn't qualify as a "sharable" spell. As far as the master/familiar relationship, I'm with Vathelokai in that I am of the opinion that the familiar is an extension of the master. If the master casts the spell and designates the familiar as the "toucher", I don't see how that's any different than the master casting the spell and designating the hand as the "toucher". To me it's a very simple logical progression. Hey... Can a spellcaster cast "detect magic" and share it with his familiar, and then let his familiar concentrate on it and keep it up? TM
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 02:54 AM	As far as the master/familiar relationship, I'm with Vathelokai in that I am of the opinion that the familiar is an extension of the master. If the master casts the spell and designates the familiar as the "toucher", I don't see how that's any different than the master casting the spell and designating the hand as the "toucher". To me it's a very simple logical progression. Hey... Can a spellcaster cast "detect magic" and share it with his familiar, and then let his familiar concentrate on it and keep it up? TM It should be noted that it's my opinion (not a rules analysis) that the familiar is an extention of the caster. Detect magic also does not have a target, even though it is obviously targeted on the caster and gives him an ability. So logicly, yes; literally, no. I'm a bit confused by the whole thing, myself. Seems I've been using house rules this whole time. Blasted editors! Arbitrarily deciding which spells that effect the caster really effect the caster. And skill points for monsters! And weapon finesse for scorpions!
Snommelp 10-09-05, 02:55 AM	No. Detect Magic has a range of 60 feet, not personal. Spectral Hand also doesn't work, because it doesn't fit the parameters. It's not a spell that you cast on yourself, it's not a touch spell, and it's not a spell with target "You." Those are the only spells that you can share/have your familiar deliver, and except for delivering touch spells, the spells stop effecting the familiar as soon as it mves more than 5 feet from its master.
Usurpator 10-09-05, 04:30 AM	About Grappling and Weapon Finesse. Since I was put in prison for this, I thought that the topic had been discussed quite thoroughly and it was deemed that grapple checks are like attack rolls and similar feats and bonuses that would affect an attack roll, likewise affect grapple checks. Which brings me to my point. Scorpions have weapon finesse and are a grappling creature. In their stat-blocks it states that they can use either dex or str for grappling, whichever is higher. So why can't I? /amz Hi LongArcher, I think Scorpions can use their Dex for grappling because it is specifically mentioned in their entry, which indicates that it is an exception to the general rule that you can't. Because the MM says monster can do something, does not make anyone able to do that same thing. Many other monsters have Weapon Finesse, but all their grapple checks don't use their Dex, following the general rule as I said in my PM.
sloisel 10-09-05, 04:59 AM	Since the effect of the spell is only '1 spectral hand', even if the spell was shared, it would still produce only one hand. I would rule that he can cast the spell, creating the hand from his familiar's essence, and under the familiar's control, but the second the familiar left Vandalar's space, the spell would be dismissed. Share spells allows spells "he casts on himself" to also affect the familiar. You cannot share a fireball with a familiar to get the effect of two fireballs, share a summon monster with a familiar to get 2x the monsters, share spiritual weapon with a familiar to get 2x the spiritual weapons, or share spectral hand with the familiar to get 2x the spectral hands. In fact, by a tight reading of the share spell rule, you cannot share touch attack spells since by a strict interpretation of the wording of ghoul touch (say), you are not the target. I realize that most people don't read it this tightly and I only noticed in a real life 3.0 game when I took eyebite. I didn't mention it to the DM and he let me get away with it, but I think that technically it was wrong for me to share eyebite with my familiar. If you want your familiar to deliver touch spells, you can't share ghoul touch with your familiar; instead you must designate your familiar as the toucher (a 3rd level familiar ability.) Sébastien Loisel
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 05:00 AM	List of spells that can be shared with familiar has been added to the TAO thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7225626&postcount=6) This has brough up a number of new but related questions... 1: so if you cast CLW on yourself it heals you and your familiar? 2: If you cast augury or commune, do you and your familiar get to ask your own questions? 3: If you contact other plane, do you and your familiar get to talk to different outsiders? 4: if you cast legend lore/vision, do you and your familiar get to identify different legends? 5: When you polymorph, your familiar gets to polymorph too? 6: can you have one contingency on your familiar and another on yourself? 7: When you cast truestrike, are the next attacks of both you and the familiar at +20?
TheMagister 10-09-05, 05:02 AM	See? That's the kind of can of worms we're finally opening here. I'm against it. Down this path there be too much cheese. TM
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 05:39 AM	List of spells that can be shared with familiar has been added to the TAO thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7225626&postcount=6) This has brough up a number of new but related questions... 1: so if you cast CLW on yourself it heals you and your familiar? 2: If you cast augury or commune, do you and your familiar get to ask your own questions? 3: If you contact other plane, do you and your familiar get to talk to different outsiders? 4: if you cast legend lore/vision, do you and your familiar get to identify different legends? 5: When you polymorph, your familiar gets to polymorph too? 6: can you have one contingency on your familiar and another on yourself? 7: When you cast truestrike, are the next attacks of both you and the familiar at +20? Actually, this can is already open. All of those spells have targets of 'you', 'personal', or 'creature touched.' Looking at it again, #6 is already out, but the rest seem to be allowed. I'm already working up an alter self list for familiars. Familiars would be way more helpfull when shapeshifted to something with a threat range.
sloisel 10-09-05, 05:43 AM	List of spells that can be shared with familiar has been added to the TAO thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7225626&postcount=6) That list is in error. As I posted above, this is not a strict reading of the rules. In fact, rules of the game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050913a) makes it very clear. "The master decides when spells are shared. To be shared, the master must cast the spell and the spell must have the master as its target. The spell must have a target entry; effect and area spells cannot be shared. See Rules of the Game: Reading Spell Descriptions for a discussion of targets, effects, and areas. Spells with touch range cannot be shared unless the master targets himself with the touch." There's some subsequent crap about CLW, he didn't make it up for that issue of RotG, they also had it in 3.0 in Tome and Blood. Since most wizards aren't also substantial clerics, I don't think we need to worry too much about whether or not this particular rule is the way Skip thinks it is. Sébastien Loisel
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 06:00 AM	Share Spells: At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself. A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiar’s type (magical beast). As you point out in your post (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7454582&postcount=3839) the spells cannot be shared in that fashion. However, you could cast, say, shocking grasp and then touch yourself. Since you would take damage, and you are both the caster and target of the spell, you could 'share' the damage with your familiar. Why anyone would want to do this is beyond me, but it seems technicly possible. Either way, I will remove such offensive spells from the list, for claritys sake. And while I'm at it, I will put in notes, explaining exactly how CLW, polymorph, etc. work.
sloisel 10-09-05, 06:36 AM	As you point out in your post (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7454582&postcount=3839) the spells cannot be shared in that fashion. However, you could cast, say, shocking grasp and then touch yourself. Since you would take damage, and you are both the caster and target of the spell, you could 'share' the damage with your familiar. Why anyone would want to do this is beyond me, but it seems technicly possible. Either way, I will remove such offensive spells from the list, for clarity's sake. And while I'm at it, I will put in notes, explaining exactly how CLW, polymorph, etc. work. That's right, you can hurt both yourself and your familiar with a single touch spell, but that wasn't clear from the list you have. It would be best if the complete list of things that can be shared (even if it sounds dumb) be somehow kept, perhaps with the weird ones segregated in their own list. For instance, the main list could have polymorph and holy aura, and the second list would have entries like chill touch (only when attacking self), etc... Add a link to RotG for good measure. Sébastien Loisel
Usurpator 10-09-05, 06:52 AM	List of spells that can be shared with familiar has been added to the TAO thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7225626&postcount=6) This has brough up a number of new but related questions... 1: so if you cast CLW on yourself it heals you and your familiar? 2: If you cast augury or commune, do you and your familiar get to ask your own questions? 3: If you contact other plane, do you and your familiar get to talk to different outsiders? 4: if you cast legend lore/vision, do you and your familiar get to identify different legends? 5: When you polymorph, your familiar gets to polymorph too? 6: can you have one contingency on your familiar and another on yourself? 7: When you cast truestrike, are the next attacks of both you and the familiar at +20? All yes.
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 07:10 AM	That's right, you can hurt both yourself and your familiar with a single touch spell, but that wasn't clear from the list you have. It would be best if the complete list of things that can be shared (even if it sounds dumb) be somehow kept, perhaps with the weird ones segregated in their own list. For instance, the main list could have polymorph and holy aura, and the second list would have entries like chill touch (only when attacking self), etc... Add a link to RotG for good measure. Sébastien Loisel Will do. All yes. Based on the rules of the game article, pointed out by Sloisel, maybe not....I must investigate further.
Mind Rogue 10-09-05, 10:59 AM	And we could never have afforded the 20 arrows for Nic (That would have cost 1202gp or so.), only about 5. So we stand unarmed...Maybe we should hear back from ToK before running away. Unless I've miscalculated, we can do 120 dmg if we roll max damage every round. It has more HP then that. Hmmm.... Perhaps I should change my buffs to 1) Longstrider, 2) Entangle, 3) Run the heck away. This has brough up a number of new but related questions... 1: so if you cast CLW on yourself it heals you and your familiar? 2: If you cast augury or commune, do you and your familiar get to ask your own questions? 3: If you contact other plane, do you and your familiar get to talk to different outsiders? 4: if you cast legend lore/vision, do you and your familiar get to identify different legends? 5: When you polymorph, your familiar gets to polymorph too? 6: can you have one contingency on your familiar and another on yourself? 7: When you cast truestrike, are the next attacks of both you and the familiar at +20? 1.) Yes, but see the rules of the game article. 2.) Yes, but both of you draw questions from the same pool. So say you are powerful enough to ask 5 questions. If both you and your familiar ask 2 questions, you only have one question left. 5.) Yes, but the form it can take is limited to being one size category above it and if it moves away from you, it reverts back to its normal size. 6.) If you use multiple contingency spells. If you use the same one, it only stays in effect as long as the two of you remain close, and as soon as one goes off, the entire thing is dispelled. Also, if you use the first one, the familiar needs to carry the focus on its person, which is liable to be a wee bit difficult. 7.) Yes, but as soon as one of you attacks, the spell is dispelled, preventing the other from gleaming the benefits.
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 11:55 AM	After some research, I have discovered... -The number of questions you can ask in spells like commune, contact other plane, etc. is based on your caster level; familiars have no caster level, so cannot ask anything. Other spells like augury, divination, ect. give the same answers to the questions based on who the caster is, i.e. if the familiar and the caster both asked the same question, they would get the same answer, even if it were wrong. -Legend lore/vision researches only one legend, but both the familiar and caster could be effected by the spell. The only really wierd use I found was shield other. If a master cast the spell on himself and shared it, it seems that both familiar and master would get all the benefits and share all of their damage. Then of course there is wish: It seems that if you target yourself with an inherent bonus and shared it, the familiar would also get the bonus, since the spell durration is instant.
sloisel 10-09-05, 12:50 PM	After some research, I have discovered... -The number of questions you can ask in spells like commune, contact other plane, etc. is based on your caster level; familiars have no caster level, so cannot ask anything. Other spells like augury, divination, ect. give the same answers to the questions based on who the caster is, i.e. if the familiar and the caster both asked the same question, they would get the same answer, even if it were wrong. -Legend lore/vision researches only one legend, but both the familiar and caster could be effected by the spell. The only really wierd use I found was shield other. If a master cast the spell on himself and shared it, it seems that both familiar and master would get all the benefits and share all of their damage. I think your conclusions are correct, but based on what I perceive to be the intention of the authors, not on your reasoning. As you can see from polymorph, divine favor, etc..., the caster level of the familiar is entirely irrelevant. I think that the whole spiel about protection vs energy and CLW in RotG is Skip's way of handling the rules and not so close to RAW. To convert a personal spell into a two-person spell, he makes nontrivial modifications to these spells. For instance, why does CLW affect only one party's hp while bull strength affect both parties's strength scores? Don't the familiar and caster have separate pools of strength points? It also seems arbitrary that you have to put all hit points in one pool, but that somehow any spillover can be put in the other pool. What about mage armor and separate pools of AC points? Why is his modification of mirror image (1d4+1=3 means 3 images of you, 3 images of your familiar, but they pop simultaneously) more logical than the interpretation 1d4+1=3 images means 3 images of you or your familiar (e.g., 2 of you and 1 of your familiar) or 3 independently popping images each? And somehow polymorph is special because it really does count as if you'd cast the spell twice. Presumably both targets get to heal as if they had slept one night -- unless there's some other interpretation we're supposed to divine? At any rate, it is what it is. If we take only SRD the simplest interpretation is that both caster and familiar get their own copy of the same spell, and parameters can be changed for each (this is so that polymorph works correctly.) This has the unfortunate side-effect of twinning legend lore and friends for free, which I don't think is as intended. If you cannot change the parameters for each target, you might have to deal with familiars polymorphing into large creatures. If we incorporate RotG, it's murkier and I would only incorporate what RotG explicitly lists -- cure spells, prot vs energy and mirror image. We don't need to care about Legend Lore in the coliseum because it's entirely useless. Let DM's deal with it in real games. Shield other is a problem even disregarding familiars. It's not clear what happens when lots of people cast shield other on a single character, or when two character mutually cast shield other on each other. I think your interpretation for wish is also correct. Which leads me to think that what they meant is, each character gets his or her own copy of the spell, with modifiable parameters, unless the spell has a duration of instantaneous, in which case you only get one copy of the spell. Sébastien Loisel
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 01:07 PM	I agree with all of your points, except the instant durration spells. The wording of 'share spells' implies that instant spells would effect the caster and familiar, thus copying the spell.
sloisel 10-09-05, 01:14 PM	I agree with all of your points, except the instant durration spells. The wording of 'share spells' implies that instant spells would effect the caster and familiar, thus copying the spell. Yeah, they clearly wrote that instant spells affect both. I was just saying, I think maybe if they'd thought of it they would've excluded instant spells; this would've handled wish and CLW and legend lore (if its stat block weren't screwy) and such. As written, instant spells share too. Sébastien Loisel
SauroGrenom 10-09-05, 01:31 PM	I know that augmented tattoo's are illegal and must be purchased in the blackmarket. Are augmented powerstones also illegal? I assume that you can buy powerstones that are increased ML but not augmented. Can you also buy powerstones that are increased ML and augmented as well?
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 02:46 PM	I know that augmented tattoo's are illegal and must be purchased in the blackmarket. Are augmented powerstones also illegal? I assume that you can buy powerstones that are increased ML but not augmented. Can you also buy powerstones that are increased ML and augmented as well? Yes you can! You may pay credits to get the right to buy custom single-use expendable items with a higher casterlevel. This only applies to scrolls, tattoos (incl. crawling tattoos), and powerstones. You may pay 1° per 2 CL above the normal limit (max 20). Normally, you can only buy scrolls and powerstones up to your ECL+2, and minimum ML for tattoos. Note that two spells on one scroll still count as two custom items as do several custom powers stored within one powerstone! Example: Tattoo of expansion [ML 7], Powerstone of force screen [ML 9], Scroll of Time Stop [CL 17]. Augmented Powerstones/Tattoos: For every two manifester levels above the minimum, the power level increases by one. This directly affects the pricing of such items. It only applies to augmented stones and tattoos. Unaugmented ones use the normal formula. Example (augmented): VigorA [ML 5] = 25*5*3 = 375 gp [+25 hp] Example (unaugmented): Vigor [ML 5] = 25*5*1 = 125 gp [+5 hp]
SauroGrenom 10-09-05, 03:30 PM	I am happy to announce that Rebreg has finally won a battle (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7450576&postcount=477)! Having gained a bit of experience from my first build, I think that I'll apply my new knowledge to a second character while continuing to run Rebreg. I am currently working on a Duergar Ranger-PsiWarrior. I am thinking of giving this grey dwarf an animal ally. Specifically a trained Riding Dog that can be equiped with barding for a high AC. I've noticed that the skills in the entry for the Riding Dog are higher than you would predict for a 2HD animal. If I wanted to retrain the dog with different skills and feats, then how many skill points would there be available? Are the skill check modifiers from Alertness already included in the MM entry? Also how high must your handle animal skill be inorder to allow you to do your own training? What is the cost for retraining the animal with different tricks if you are required to hire a trainer? Can you instruct an animal to perform tricks when you are invisiable?
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 03:42 PM	I am happy to announce that Rebreg has finally won a battle (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7450576&postcount=477)! Having gained a bit of experience from my first build, I think that I'll apply my new knowledge to a second character while continuing to run Rebreg. I am currently working on a Duergar Ranger-PsiWarrior. I am thinking of giving this grey dwarf an animal ally. Specifically a trained Riding Dog that can be equiped with barding for a high AC. I've noticed that the skills in the entry for the Riding Dog are higher than you would predict for a 2HD animal. If I wanted to retrain the dog with different skills and feats, then how many skill points would there be available? Are the skill check modifiers from Alertness already included in the MM entry? Also how high must your handle animal skill be inorder to allow you to do your own training? What is the cost for retraining the animal with different tricks if you are required to hire a trainer? Can you instruct an animal to perform tricks when you are invisiable? All of the modifiers are added into the 'monster's' stat block. There's a total of 22 points -4 racial bonus -4 feat, -7 ability modifiers; leaving you with 7 ranks of skills. (According to the 'types/subtypes' section of the monster enty, it should only have 5, but never mind that) If you bought an elite (i.e. higher stats) dog, you couldn't increase his ranks, since it already has a maxed intelegence (of 2). In the handle animal description, it states the DC to teach an animal a trick. Each trick is different, either DC 15 or 20. Read carefully; some tricks have wierd quirks, like attack - if you teach an animal attack twice, it can attack unusual creatures like undead. Don't forget to buy a masterwork handle animal tool for 50 gp. There are no concrete rules on if the animal has to see you for you to give it commands. It makes sense that if you yelled or whistled commands it would work, but I think it would be a DC 0 listen check to find you. 1st level Druids and 4th level Rangers can give commands to their animal companions telepathicly, so no problems there. Not sure what it costs to hire a trainer though. Most animals come trained, so you can start the game with a tricked out animal, but if you get one later you would have to spend the time and rescources training it.
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 03:55 PM	Alrighty! I've tweaked the list of spells you can share with a familiar. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7225626&postcount=6) I also added that alter self list for familiars. Comments?
Usurpator 10-09-05, 03:55 PM	I am happy to announce that Rebreg has finally won a battle (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7450576&postcount=477)! Congratulations! Having gained a bit of experience from my first build, I think that I'll apply my new knowledge to a second character while continuing to run Rebreg. I am currently working on a Duergar Ranger-PsiWarrior. Something like Shazzelin the Gray (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7038754)? I am thinking of giving this grey dwarf an animal ally. Specifically a trained Riding Dog that can be equiped with barding for a high AC. I've noticed that the skills in the entry for the Riding Dog are higher than you would predict for a 2HD animal. If I wanted to retrain the dog with different skills and feats, then how many skill points would there be available? 5 skill points. The rest are ability, feat and racial bonusses (and errors if any skill points remain) Are the skill check modifiers from Alertness already included in the MM entry? Also how high must your handle animal skill be inorder to allow you to do your own training? What is the cost for retraining the animal with different tricks if you are required to hire a trainer? With a -4 penalty to Charisma, and the ability not being essential to Psychic Warrior or Ranger operations, you'd be hard-pressed to reach the required skill bonus of +10 for self-training animals. Can you instruct an animal to perform tricks when you are invisiable? I guess so, but if I Pitlord I would probably raise the DC for some commands by 2, while some commands would be impossible depending on the circumstances.
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 04:10 PM	With a -4 penalty to Charisma, and the ability not being essential to Psychic Warrior or Ranger operations, you'd be hard-pressed to reach the required skill bonus of +10 for self-training animals. With a charisma of 4, first level in ranger you could have 4.5 ranks -3 ability +2 tools. It would be at least 7 more levels of ranger before you could do it; 12 to do it effectively. Maybe you could buy some gloves of animal handling +10?
sloisel 10-09-05, 04:44 PM	With a charisma of 4, first level in ranger you could have 4.5 ranks -3 ability +2 tools. It would be at least 7 more levels of ranger before you could do it; 12 to do it effectively. Maybe you could buy some gloves of animal handling +10? If he's got a level of ranger, his max ranks at character level 2 is 5, not 4.5. See http://d20srd.org/srd/classes/multiclass.htm. 7 more levels of anything will up that to 12.
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 05:08 PM	If he's got a level of ranger, his max ranks at character level 2 is 5, not 4.5. See http://d20srd.org/srd/classes/multiclass.htm. 7 more levels of anything will up that to 12. 1 level ranger, 1 level psi-warrior, 1 level adjustment (duergar). Handle animal is cross class for psi-warriors.
sloisel 10-09-05, 05:39 PM	Handle animal is cross class for psi-warriors. Doesn't matter. Read my link above.
SauroGrenom 10-09-05, 05:45 PM	I was reading over the SRD Handle Animal skill section, and I ran across these two pieces of information. Handle an Animal: This task involves commanding an animal to perform a task or trick that it knows. If the animal is wounded or has taken any nonlethal damage or ability score damage, the DC increases by 2. If your check succeeds, the animal performs the task or trick on its next action. Down (DC 15): The animal breaks off from combat or otherwise backs down. An animal that doesn’t know this trick continues to fight until it must flee (due to injury, a fear effect, or the like) or its opponent is defeated. OK, so the first passage states that the animal performs its trick on the next action, but do we assume that it will continue to perform that trick every turn without needing any additional skill checks? It is not explicitly stated that the skill's effect continues for several rounds, nor is it stated that it only lasts for a single round. The second passage states that animals may flee due to injury. What are the rules governing that? How much injury is required, is there a save or skill check to prevent the animal from fleeing?
Vathelokai 10-09-05, 06:04 PM	Doesn't matter. Read my link above. Skills If a skill is a class skill for any of a multiclass character’s classes, then character level determines a skill’s maximum rank. (The maximum rank for a class skill is 3 + character level.) If a skill is not a class skill for any of a multiclass character’s classes, the maximum rank for that skill is one-half the maximum for a class skill. When did that happen? Wouldn't that basicly mean that there is no such thing as cross class skills? *edit* I'm over reacting...CC is still double price.
sloisel 10-09-05, 06:26 PM	When did that happen? It's been like this since 3.0.
MysticMonk2005 10-09-05, 07:17 PM	I am happy to announce that Rebreg has finally won a battle (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7450576&postcount=477)! Congrats, but FYI I have two characters that lost more then him :P Pard 'Lord of the Bumps' lost his first 8 matches. Then there is Emad who I give up on(after loosing all 7 of his fights) as it would take years and years before he was a high enough level to do what I want with. I would of stuck with him on the 3 strikes u bump rule, but even if u win it takes quite a while to level undere LGE.
Snommelp 10-09-05, 10:47 PM	This is a long shot, but is a grappled opponent considered helpless for a CdG? Not to the other grappler, but to a third party.
Mind Rogue 10-09-05, 11:01 PM	This is a long shot, but is a grappled opponent considered helpless for a CdG? Not to the other grappler, but to a third party. No. Even if you pin them, they still are not helpless (although they would be in really bad shape). However, a grappler loses his Dex bonus against any opponent he isn't grappling.
Snommelp 10-09-05, 11:09 PM	No. Even if you pin them, they still are not helpless (although they would be in really bad shape). However, a grappler loses his Dex bonus against any opponent he isn't grappling.Thanks. Doesn't help me, though. I was hoping for Sam to grapple that accursed giant and have Aerandir CdG... I guess I'll have to come up with a new miracle plan...
TheMagister 10-10-05, 05:26 AM	Changed Torgirr's Craft skill from (weaponsmith) to (Ironmongery) so that he can use it to make money next level when he gets 5 ranks in it. It's been unused (and will remain unused until he gets 5 ranks in it). TM
Vathelokai 10-10-05, 08:18 AM	@MystikMonk: Check my sig. :D
Enterik 10-10-05, 10:28 AM	Alrighty! I've tweaked the list of spells you can share with a familiar. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7225626&postcount=6) I also added that alter self list for familiars. Comments? If they can become stirges, it's unlcear to me why a bat or toad could not assume the form of a dire rat? Or why Tiny familiars can't become Vargoilles and juvenile arrowhawks? Or why Imps/Quasits can't become chokers?
Vathelokai 10-10-05, 10:53 AM	Alter self allows the subject to turn into any creature of the same type that is within one size catagory of itself. The new form can not have a template. When alter self is shared, the master and familiar are considered two different recipients of the spell. So bats and toads are diminuitive; they can only shift into magical beasts that are fine, diminuitive or tiny. Dire animals are still animals, not magical beasts. I found that there is a supprisingly small number of magical beasts in the monster manual.
NiQil 10-10-05, 11:51 AM	A question regarding the clerical Magic Domain as it relates to scrolls.... Granted Power: Use scrolls, wands, and other devices with spell completion or spell trigger activation as a wizard of one-half your cleric level (at least 1st level). For the purpose of using a scroll or other magic device, if you are also a wizard, actual wizard levels and these effective wizard levels stack. Activate the Spell: Activating a scroll requires reading the spell from the scroll. The character must be able to see and read the writing on the scroll. Activating a scroll spell requires no material components or focus. (The creator of the scroll provided these when scribing the scroll.) Note that some spells are effective only when cast on an item or items. In such a case, the scroll user must provide the item when activating the spell. Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance. To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements. • The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.) • The user must have the spell on his or her class list. • The user must have the requisite ability score. If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers. The Magic Domain states that you can use arcane devices with spell completion or trigger activation like a wizard of one half your cleric levels. Activating a scroll states that in order for you to use a scroll, you must have the spell on his or her class list. It also states that if you do not meet the caster level of the scroll, in order to use the scroll, you must meet the requirements it lists, of which having the spell on your spell list is one of them. Here is my question. Say you have a level 5 cleric with the Magic Domain(effectively using up to level 2 arcane scrolls) that wants to use a level 3 scroll. Can he? By how I read this, he can't, because he does not meet all of the conditions needed to be able to make a caster level check to use the scroll. Even though he is granted the ability to use scrolls like a wizard, that does not give him a wizard spell list, so he does not meet that requirement, and would not be able to make a caster level check to activate that scroll. Am I correct or incorrect in this? If I am incorrect in this, can someone show me why?
Vathelokai 10-10-05, 12:19 PM	For the purpose of using a scroll or other magic device, if you are also a wizard...I assume this means that all wizard spells are on your spell list for the purpose of using magic items.
NiQil 10-10-05, 12:24 PM	I assume this means that all wizard spells are on your spell list for the purpose of using magic items. Except, to borrow a line from ToK, wouldn't it say that if that was how it was supposed to be? It doesn't say anything about it giving you a wizard spell list...it just says you can use those items like a wizard could that is the same level as half your cleric levels. Says nothing about granting you a wizard spell list. It just says that if you are already a wizard, these levels will stack with your normal wizard levels. You would already have a wizard spell list in that case, and this argument wouldn't apply to that situation. I don't see anything to support that argument. So again, I ask,....if you have no wizard spell list, how can you meet the spell list requirement to be able to make a caster level check for wizard scrolls of a CL higher than yours?
Cerebus13 10-10-05, 12:33 PM	Except, to borrow a line from ToK, wouldn't it say that if that was how it was supposed to be? It doesn't say anything about it giving you a wizard spell list...it just says you can use those items like a wizard could that is the same level as half your cleric levels. Says nothing about granting you a wizard spell list. It just says that if you are already a wizard, these levels will stack with your normal wizard levels. You would already have a wizard spell list in that case, and this argument wouldn't apply to that situation. I don't see anything to support that argument. So again, I ask,....if you have no wizard spell list, how can you meet the spell list requirement to be able to make a caster level check for wizard scrolls of a CL higher than yours?Erm, interpreting Magic Domain this way rather shoots it in the foot entirely. This quote from the SRD: To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements. ... * The user must have the spell on his or her class list. ...Indicates that in order to use a scroll at all you must have the spell on your class list. If the Magic Domain does not circumvent this part of the rules regarding scrolls...then it would not work at all without Wizard levels. This would make the Domain entirely useless unless you were multiclassing a Wizard/Cleric character.
NiQil 10-10-05, 12:36 PM	Erm, interpreting Magic Domain this way rather shoots it in the foot entirely. This quote from the SRD:Indicates that in order to use a scroll at all you must have the spell on your class list. If the Magic Domain does not circumvent this part of the rules regarding scrolls...then it would not work at all without Wizard levels. This would make the Domain entirely useless unless you were multiclassing a Wizard/Cleric character. Not at all...because the domain DOES specifically state that you can use those items as a wizard of half your cleric levels. That would circumvent the normal scroll rules in that regard. But it says nothing about giving you a spell list to be able to use scrolls of a caster level higher than your "wizard level" that is granted by the domain.
Vathelokai 10-10-05, 12:56 PM	So basicly it's just for scrolls, since wands and staffs need you to have the spell on your list.
NiQil 10-10-05, 01:01 PM	So basicly it's just for scrolls, since wands and staffs need you to have the spell on your list. No....the Magic Domain specifically states that any item with a spell completion or spell trigger activation method may be used as a wizard of one half your cleric levels. This would include wands, staffs, rods, etc. But it says nothing about giving you a spell list for you to use scrolls at a wizard level higher than the one the domain is granting you. Since it doesn't, I fail to see how a 5th level cleric could make a caster level check to use a scroll of fireball, since that is a 3rd level spell and they do not have a wizard spell list. Or how a 3rd level cleric could use a scroll of Invisibility, since it is a 2nd level spell and you would have a "wizard level" of 1 at that point.....but no wizard spell list.
Vathelokai 10-10-05, 01:07 PM	Spell Completion: This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that’s left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can’t already cast the spell, there’s a chance he’ll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does. Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.Seems the wording of the magic domain power contradicts itself. If you cannot use higher level scrolls because you do not have a wizard spell list, how could you use spell triger items at all. The domain power only gives you a wizard level, which is not enough to use a staff or wand. Each rod has its own activation method, so some can be used and some cannot. My guess is that by specificly stating wands, they imply that you can use the wizard spell list. But that is not specificly stated, as you point out.
NiQil 10-10-05, 01:16 PM	Seems the wording of the magic domain power contradicts itself. If you cannot use higher level scrolls because you do not have a wizard spell list, how could you use spell triger items at all. The domain power only gives you a wizard level, which is not enough to use a staff or wand. Each rod has its own activation method, so some can be used and some cannot. My guess is that by specificly stating wands, they imply that you can use the wizard spell list. But that is not specificly stated, as you point out. In this case, the rule of sources comes in to play. The specific overrides the general. The Magic domain specifically states that you can use those items like a wizard of one half your cleric levels. That overrides any spell list requirements related to using things up and equal to your "wizard level". But it does *not say that you are granted a spell list. In this case, the scroll activation instructions become the specific, by stating that in order to make a caster level check, you *must have the spell on your spell list. The Magic domain does not grant you a spell list. So you should *not be able to make a caster level check to use arcane scrolls at a higher wizard level than you have, because you do not have a spell list. But you can still use the scrolls/wands, etc at a level equal to your wizard level, because the Magic Domain specifically says you can.
Vathelokai 10-10-05, 02:05 PM	OK...the power says you can use scrolls, wands, etc. as a wizard 1/2 your cleric level. If, for intents and purposes of magic item use, you are a wizard, then you have access to the wizard spell list. I think that is the crux of the arguement. Otherwise, the power does not make sense. It says you can use a wand as if you were a # level wizard, but wand use is in no way based on level. It dosn't say you automaticly get to use wands....only that you could use them as if you had a caster level.
Cerebus13 10-10-05, 02:18 PM	In this case, the rule of sources comes in to play. The specific overrides the general. The Magic domain specifically states that you can use those items like a wizard of one half your cleric levels. That overrides any spell list requirements related to using things up and equal to your "wizard level". But it does *not say that you are granted a spell list. In this case, the scroll activation instructions become the specific, by stating that in order to make a caster level check, you *must have the spell on your spell list. The Magic domain does not grant you a spell list. So you should *not be able to make a caster level check to use arcane scrolls at a higher wizard level than you have, because you do not have a spell list. But you can still use the scrolls/wands, etc at a level equal to your wizard level, because the Magic Domain specifically says you can.Using the bolded line to indicate that the Magic Domain allows you to use scrolls of up to your caster level...also means that you can use scrolls over your Caster Level. There are two sets of scrolls being discussed here...equal or less than Caster Level scrolls and greater than Caster Level scrolls. By the above bolded quote you can either exclude both uses, or neither of them. You cannot exclude both uses of scrolls, otherwise there would be no need to mention Spell Completion items at all because you could not use them.
NiQil 10-10-05, 02:22 PM	OK...the power says you can use scrolls, wands, etc. as a wizard 1/2 your cleric level. If, for intents and purposes of magic item use, you are a wizard, then you have access to the wizard spell list. I think that is the crux of the arguement. Otherwise, the power does not make sense. It says you can use a wand as if you were a # level wizard, but wand use is in no way based on level. It dosn't say you automaticly get to use wands....only that you could use them as if you had a caster level. I see where you are coming from with regard to the wands. You are correct in that wands do not base their activation on spell levels, just whether or not you have a spell list. From that standpoint, I can see see now where you are assuming that since you need spell list access to use wands, that the domain is granting this, and therefore (by extrapolation), the spell list coverage is also extended to scrolls and staffs and such. While I don't necessarily (yet) agree with this interpretation, at least what you are saying makes sense to me.
Caterane 10-10-05, 03:28 PM	I'm proud to present you a fully functional guild system. The FAQ: Guilds is complete (except for some minor things) and can be used. Please read it to learn the rules for the LivingGuilds system. You will also see that the rules are much simpler than many of you thought they'd be. If you have read "The Basics", "Operations", "Guild Wars", and "Guild Actions" you'll know how it works. You can now apply for a guild with your character. Guildmasters should make a list with applicants in their guild thread, and pick 5 from that list in 3 weeks from this wednesday on because that will be the day when the guild system starts. Note that there will be NO miniquest prerequisite to join for these first 5 characters! I will discuss the individual entry requirements with the guildmasters within the week but you can expect that they are more roleplay based than those we had so far. There are still some things that need to be done. I'll write up the Regiment stats within the next days. We need to create the Battle Maps. Neither of that will be needed anytime soon. The prices of everything may change while we play along. They are all nothing more than estimations without me having seen the system in action so I could only guess. More important are the rules for the Covert Operations. They are basically non-existant. There must be a concrete frame that governs those operations. I'd like to hear ideas from all of you, if possible. And of course, Feedback is appreciated. Cat
MysticMonk2005 10-10-05, 04:11 PM	@MystikMonk: Check my sig. :D <.< what am I looking for?
NiQil 10-10-05, 04:32 PM	With regard to the Arcane Archer prestige class.... Imbue Arrow (Sp): At 2nd level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell’s area is centered on where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow’s range rather than the spell’s range. It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow. The arrow must be fired in the round the spell is cast, or the spell is wasted. Is the above class ability able to be used in conjunction with scrolls, staffs, etc, or is it only with spells you cast from memory?
Vathelokai 10-10-05, 04:39 PM	<.< what am I looking for? Sword-chucks, Yo! The 'rest of the sig' link...Oh, nevermind.
MysticMonk2005 10-10-05, 04:46 PM	@Vath ah that Yes, long live 8-bit. :D @anyone who cares: Lissa is set to fight this week :D
One_Winged_Angel 10-10-05, 05:31 PM	Wow. Didn't know everyone had the same idea I did. Go figure, eh? How's it going Cat? How is everyone? General announcement: I'm going to be returning to the COCO. Now that I have 3 classes a day, no extra activities, and, most importantly, no one to play DnD with, I've been itching to take some of my characters back into action and put a few new ideas into play. I won't be coming on active this week (midterms. Ack!) but I will be lurking, posting, commenting, and catching up on rules. Might post a character in that space of time.
NiQil 10-10-05, 06:43 PM	With regard to Craft - Alchemy and Craft - Poisonmaking.... According to the Rules thread, an alchemical lab will provide a +2 circumstance bonus to either of these skills. Does that mean you need a seperate lab for each of them to get the bonus, or will one lab supply the bonus to both skills simultaneously? Considering the hefty cost of a lab, I am hoping for simultaneous bonuses. Edit: Also, with regard to Alchemy and Poisonmaking.... In the Rules thread, in the paragraph for Weaponsmithing, Armorsmithing, and Bowmaking, it says you are assumed to be taking 10 on all craft checks. In the paragraph regarding Alchemy and Poisonmaking, it does not state anything about taking 10. Is the taking 10 rule applicable to Alchemy and Poisonmaking as well?
MysticMonk2005 10-10-05, 10:38 PM	<.< Man I should look into making this a trade of sorts. Get paid to go somewhere to attract the crowds :D (Now brought to you in the correct place :D)
One_Winged_Angel 10-10-05, 10:52 PM	<.< Man I should look into making this a trade of sorts. Get paid to go somewhere to attract the crowds :D (Now brought to you in the correct place :D) ...First day back and I've already got a stupid side comment from Mystic. Guess only the arena has changed.
Kaigan 10-10-05, 11:09 PM	@Mystic and OWA: Welcome back... missed you guys... well ttyl.
TheMagister 10-10-05, 11:44 PM	No....the Magic Domain specifically states that any item with a spell completion or spell trigger activation method may be used as a wizard of one half your cleric levels. This would include wands, staffs, rods, etc. But it says nothing about giving you a spell list for you to use scrolls at a wizard level higher than the one the domain is granting you. Since it doesn't, I fail to see how a 5th level cleric could make a caster level check to use a scroll of fireball, since that is a 3rd level spell and they do not have a wizard spell list. Or how a 3rd level cleric could use a scroll of Invisibility, since it is a 2nd level spell and you would have a "wizard level" of 1 at that point.....but no wizard spell list. Wow. I always thought that that was too powerful. I'm of the opinion that Clerics with the Magic Domain should only be able to activate arcane spells from scrolls with a caster level of no more than 1/2 of their cleric level.... ...but that's just because I think it's too powerful. TM
SauroGrenom 10-11-05, 12:37 AM	OK, I just came up with a totally crazy idea and I'd like to run this past those of you here in the tavern to tell me if this is feasable. Can a Familiar have a mount? I'm about to post a character who has a level in PsiWarrior and used the bonus feat to get a psicrystal. This little construct has its masters ranks in skills, so it will have a Ride of +7. I'm thinking of buying a custom riding dog for the little crystal to ride into battle. Riding Dogs trained for war get trip attacks, and have the scent and Track abilites that can be used to find invisable opponents. These two seem like a nice duo and a great way for me to utilize the telepathic link to tightly control the dog's actions to best effect without making multiple Handle Animal checks.
Sindorin 10-11-05, 12:57 AM	Hmm. My girlfriend of over 2 years has suddenly decided that we need a break. Posting shall be sporadic while I sort things out with this... I have no idea what the **** is going on. Stupid ****ing long distance relationships... But yes, posting... sporadic at best. I'll make an effort, I promise.
Snommelp 10-11-05, 01:01 AM	@ Sauro: if it works, you'll be taking two XP penalties. @ Sin: Wow, that's rough. If you need to talk, PM me.
TelinArtho 10-11-05, 01:02 AM	This is why when I met my wife five years ago I didn't let her go for anything. She encourages my poker - my role-playing - my writing and even tries everything herself. Not that it means much - but if she's worth it - you'll make sure it works. If she's not - she'll make sure it doesn't. Hope it all works out.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-11-05, 01:02 AM	I see where you are coming from with regard to the wands. You are correct in that wands do not base their activation on spell levels, just whether or not you have a spell list. From that standpoint, I can see see now where you are assuming that since you need spell list access to use wands, that the domain is granting this, and therefore (by extrapolation), the spell list coverage is also extended to scrolls and staffs and such. While I don't necessarily (yet) agree with this interpretation, at least what you are saying makes sense to me. The domain ability allows the use of the device as if a wizard, so as if you had the wizard spell list (otherwise, the ability would not allow use of wizard scrolls of any level). For spell completion purposes he would have the spell list of a wizard. That list includes higher level spells than just 1st level ones. For example a ranger1 doesn't even *have* a caster level yet has his full spell list for spell completion purposes. So to whit if casting a 3rd level scroll of magic missle he would need to make a caster level check, but a 1st level scroll of magic missle he could do without a roll. This is assuming that the cleric in question had atleast an INT of 11. The later could be bypassed as normal by UMD, but that's getting far afield. -ToK
SauroGrenom 10-11-05, 01:09 AM	@ Sauro: if it works, you'll be taking two XP penalties. Why? I can see that the dog causes one as per the normal Allies rules. Familiar's don't cause an xp penalty, neither do allies granted by class features of any other class. Why should a psicrystal cause an extra XP penalty?
Snommelp 10-11-05, 10:44 AM	Why? I can see that the dog causes one as per the normal Allies rules. Familiar's don't cause an xp penalty, neither do allies granted by class features of any other class. Why should a psicrystal cause an extra XP penalty?Because psicrystals, unlike the others, aren't granted by the class. They're feat allies. That makes them like allies gained through Leadership, which carry an XP penalty.
NiQil 10-11-05, 11:09 AM	Because psicrystals, unlike the others, aren't granted by the class. They're feat allies. That makes them like allies gained through Leadership, which carry an XP penalty. This might be up for debate....I no longer have the PM, but back a few weeks ago when we were trying to sort out what the phrase "unless otherwise stated" means in the Rules thread in regards to having to possibly quest for animal companions and paladin horses, Cat told me that psicrystals do not require quests like Leadership allies do.....so it would be debatable as to whether they incur XP penalties like Leadership allies for the same reason.
NiQil 10-11-05, 11:10 AM	With regard to the Arcane Archer prestige class.... Is the above class ability able to be used in conjunction with scrolls, staffs, etc, or is it only with spells you cast from memory? :bump:
NiQil 10-11-05, 11:12 AM	With regard to Craft - Alchemy and Craft - Poisonmaking.... According to the Rules thread, an alchemical lab will provide a +2 circumstance bonus to either of these skills. Does that mean you need a seperate lab for each of them to get the bonus, or will one lab supply the bonus to both skills simultaneously? Considering the hefty cost of a lab, I am hoping for simultaneous bonuses. Edit: Also, with regard to Alchemy and Poisonmaking.... In the Rules thread, in the paragraph for Weaponsmithing, Armorsmithing, and Bowmaking, it says you are assumed to be taking 10 on all craft checks. In the paragraph regarding Alchemy and Poisonmaking, it does not state anything about taking 10. Is the taking 10 rule applicable to Alchemy and Poisonmaking as well? :bump:
SauroGrenom 10-11-05, 11:14 AM	Because psicrystals, unlike the others, aren't granted by the class. They're feat allies. That makes them like allies gained through Leadership, which carry an XP penalty. This "feat ally" classification is not mentioned anywhere in the rules of gladius thread, nor in the SRD. All I can find are allies from the Leadership Feat, Handle Animal Skill, Diplomacy Skill, Purchased Allies, Class Feature Allies and Spell-Power-Ability Allies. The Psicrystal is certianly not a member of one of the first 4 classifications, so it must be either a Class Feature Ally or a Spell-Power-Ability Ally. I contend that a psicrystal is not granted by any spell or power nor any class ability, so it must fall closest to the "Class Feature Ally" group. If there is a clarification in the rules somewhere or if this has been decided by the elders in some place, then I'd appreciate it if someone would direct me to that discussion. I'd like to post this character later tonight and this detail will be of signifigance.
NiQil 10-11-05, 11:21 AM	Does damage reduction gained from different sources stack? For instance, does the damage reduction that a barbarian gains at higher levels stack with damage reduction gained from adamantine armor?
Luni 10-11-05, 11:27 AM	Does damage reduction gained from different sources stack? For instance, does the damage reduction that a barbarian gains at higher levels stack with damage reduction gained from adamantine armor? No. You always use the best DR available. In this case the high level barbarians. Aside: If your high-level barbarian was bitten by a lycanthrope and became a werewolf, he would gain DR 5/Silver in Hybrid Form. This means, that against non-silver weapons, he has DR 5/ Silver. IF someone has a silver weapon, he still has is other DR.
SoulLord 10-11-05, 11:36 AM	Im inclined to say No, that spells cast on it must be casted by yourself and not by scrolls Even if you were allowed I find it hard to do as it takes a standard action to cast and fire the arrow. Unless you end up with 3 or more arms..... Imbue Arrow (Sp) At 2nd level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell’s area is centered on where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow’s range rather than the spell’s range. It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow. The arrow must be fired in the round the spell is cast, or the spell is wasted.
SauroGrenom 10-11-05, 12:25 PM	I found this in an archived elders discussion: But we've discussed that to the death already. The question at hand is how to calculate familiars and psicrystals, and wether psicrystals are class allies or not. Psycrystals are not class feature allies. I already said that above. However, they are just like class feature allies in that they have a CR of 0, since their CR is included in their masters. Whether you include them in your formula with a CR 0 or just don't include them, either way you'll get the same result. This appears to settle the issue of how psicrystals effect the XP/GP rewards for the Arena. Lastly I would like to know if there is any reason that a psicrystal would be prohibited from riding a mount. The psicrystal in question will have a ride check of +9(+5ranks+2dex+2synergy) actually, so it will automatically make any DC5 checks to guide the mount with its ectoplasmic knees. Here is another related question, can psicrystals hold and use things like a pearl of brainlock or potion? If a psicrystal can hold ans use things, then can a psicrystal use my power/spell list to use wands?
NiQil 10-11-05, 12:48 PM	A recent Rules of the Game article on the D&D homepage had a section about letting your familiar use it's owner as a mount....if they are allowing that line of reasoning, I don't see why it couldn't have a different mount instead of it's owner.
NiQil 10-11-05, 12:50 PM	This got lost (again) in the shuffle...reposting... With regard to Alchemy and Poisonmaking.... According to the Rules thread, an alchemical lab will provide a +2 circumstance bonus to either of these skills. Does that mean you need a seperate lab for each of them to get the bonus, or will one lab supply the bonus to both skills simultaneously? Considering the hefty cost of a lab, I am hoping for simultaneous bonuses. Edit: Also, with regard to Alchemy and Poisonmaking.... In the Rules thread, in the paragraph for Weaponsmithing, Armorsmithing, and Bowmaking, it says you are assumed to be taking 10 on all craft checks. In the paragraph regarding Alchemy and Poisonmaking, it does not state anything about taking 10. Is the taking 10 rule applicable to Alchemy and Poisonmaking as well?
TelinArtho 10-11-05, 12:53 PM	As far as I know, you are able to use the same lab. For crafting poisons your bonus to poison making must be equal to the DC of the poison being crafted (it says this in the Rules thread). I'll have to check on the Alchemy, but I believe you take 10 on the alchemy ones. EDIT: Poisonmaking and Alchemy: With Craft poisonmaking, you can craft any non-magical poison listed in the DMG, p297. The cost of raw materials is 1/2 of the base price. There is no chance for failure and you complete it much faster. To create a poison, you need to have a Craft Poisonmaking skill modifier of at least as high as the respective poison's DC. For example, if you want to craft carrion crawler brain juice poison (Dc13), you would have to have a Craft poisonmaking modifier of +13 or more. You can buy an alchemist's lab (500 gp) which gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on craft poisonmaking. With Craft alchemy, you can craft any alchemical item listed in the Equipment section of the PHB, or on p71 (Craft skill). Your Craft alchemy modifier needs to be +5 for acid flasks, +10 for alchemist's fire, smokesticks, and tindertwigs, and +15 for antitoxins, sunrods, tanglefoot bags, and thunderstones. You also need to have at least one caster level in any spellcasting class, or one manifester level in any psionic class. You can buy an alchemist's lab (500 gp) which gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on craft alchemy. Actually, I'm a little disappointed NiQil - you asked the question 3 times, and it seems to be stated clear as day in the rules thread... [insert smiley here...]
Luni 10-11-05, 12:54 PM	Can anyone go over Ashhur and see if I made any mistakes. Find him here. (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7471492&postcount=494) I think he is the first Deep Dwarf here. And he doesn't have enough hps.
Snommelp 10-11-05, 12:58 PM	Barbarians can't be lawful. You'll have to change his alignment or make him an ex-barbarian.
TelinArtho 10-11-05, 12:58 PM	Other than the weapons that are not core (at least that I know of...) - Dwarven Warhammer, Dwarven War-pick...
Myrridin 10-11-05, 01:00 PM	Starting level is also ECL 3, not ECL 4, so you'll have to ditch a level of some class to get that.
Snommelp 10-11-05, 01:02 PM	Starting level is also ECL 3, not ECL 4, so you'll have to ditch a level of some class to get that. Unless Luni's willing to pay some credits, which is a definite possibility...
Pittbull 10-11-05, 01:04 PM	I think he is the first Deep Dwarf here. First Deep Dwarf? Just take a look to Boraxx (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5203478). ;)
Tellish_of_Ket 10-11-05, 01:05 PM	No. You always use the best DR available. In this case the high level barbarians. This is partially correct. They do stack if they have the same effect. If there were other core classes that afforded DR/-, then they would indeed stack. Here's the part i could be wrong about though.... In the case of a high level barbarian Lycan, they would get DR 5/silver, and DR 1/-. Meaning even a silver weapon will get partially stopped by the barbarian's natural DR. Adamantine DR, and barbarian DR however do not stack. -ToK
Luni 10-11-05, 01:05 PM	Other than the weapons that are not core (at least that I know of...) - Dwarven Warhammer, Dwarven War-pick... I meant Warhammer, Heavy Pick. I'll make things more clear. Barbarians can't be lawful. You'll have to change his alignment or make him an ex-barbarian. Good catch. Ex-Barbarian he is. Starting level is also ECL 3, not ECL 4, so you'll have to ditch a level of some class to get that. I'll spend my 4° to avoid NiQil's army.
NiQil 10-11-05, 01:07 PM	As far as I know, you are able to use the same lab. For crafting poisons your bonus to poison making must be equal to the DC of the poison being crafted (it says this in the Rules thread). I'll have to check on the Alchemy, but I believe you take 10 on the alchemy ones. EDIT: Actually, I'm a little disappointed NiQil - you asked the question 3 times, and it seems to be stated clear as day in the rules thread... [insert smiley here...] The reason for my question is that that does not specify whether or not that includes the taking 10. For instance, to craft Drow poison, without taking 10, your modifier would have to be a 13....which is reachable but hard to do at level 3. If you include the take 10, then it is easily attainable. If you do not include the take 10, then most low end characters cannot craft poisons without some severe strain on their characters (depending on the build, of course). It would seem logical to me that it should include the take 10 rule, since the paragraph about weaponsmithing, armorsmithing and bowmaking says you take 10 on all craft checks....it just doesn't specify for sure if that is referring to only the checks in that paragraph or to all of them that you can do. THAT is the reason I asked for the clarification.
Luni 10-11-05, 01:08 PM	This is partially correct. They do stack if they have the same effect. If there were other core classes that afforded DR/-, then they would indeed stack. Here's the part i could be wrong about though.... In the case of a high level barbarian Lycan, they would get DR 5/silver, and DR 1/-. Meaning even a silver weapon will get partially stopped by the barbarian's natural DR. Adamantine DR, and barbarian DR however do not stack. -ToK You are wrong, ToK. I can't find anythign that allows DR to stack. If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-11-05, 01:13 PM	You are wrong, ToK. I can't find anythign that allows DR to stack. I'll have to see where i found that before. I can't remember where i read it. I'll go with your answer though as 100% for now. -ToK
NiQil 10-11-05, 01:25 PM	Below are the relevant paragraphs from the Rules thread...I have highlighted the lines that are causing my confusion. Weaponsmithing, Armorsmithing, Bowmaking: You may craft any non-magical item with a listed price that is related to the respective craft skill. The cost of raw materials is 1/2 (not 1/3), but the speed of crafting is much faster than that given in the skill description: you can craft 1000 gp's worth of market price in one day. For example, an adamantine greatsword costing 3050 gp would take 4 days to craft, and cost you 1525 gp. You are assumed to be taking 10 on all crafting rolls. For example, the above adamantine greatsword would have a craft DC of 20, meaning that your character would need a Craft (weaponsmithing) skill bonus of at least +10. You can buy a masterwork tool (55 gp) for the respective craft skill which gives you a +2 circumstance bonus. Note: arrows and bolts are created with craft bowmaking. Poisonmaking and Alchemy: With Craft poisonmaking, you can craft any non-magical poison listed in the DMG, p297. The cost of raw materials is 1/2 of the base price. There is no chance for failure and you complete it much faster. To create a poison, you need to have a Craft Poisonmaking skill modifier of at least as high as the respective poison's DC. For example, if you want to craft carrion crawler brain juice poison (Dc13), you would have to have a Craft poisonmaking modifier of +13 or more. You can buy an alchemist's lab (500 gp) which gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on craft poisonmaking. With Craft alchemy, you can craft any alchemical item listed in the Equipment section of the PHB, or on p71 (Craft skill). Your Craft alchemy modifier needs to be +5 for acid flasks, +10 for alchemist's fire, smokesticks, and tindertwigs, and +15 for antitoxins, sunrods, tanglefoot bags, and thunderstones. You also need to have at least one caster level in any spellcasting class, or one manifester level in any psionic class. You can buy an alchemist's lab (500 gp) which gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on craft alchemy. The first line seems to be in direct conflict with the 2nd and 3rd lines I have highlighted.
TelinArtho 10-11-05, 01:30 PM	Well, NiQil - let's use the "specific overrules the generic" guideline that is often quoted for the core books (and yes I realize the rules thread is not the "core" book - but I'm making a correlation here...). In this case, in general, the craft skills are used with a take 10 mentality. However, in the specific case of Poisonmaking, you use the "skill modifier of at least as high as the respective poison's DC." And in the specific case of Alchemy, "[y]our Craft alchemy modifier needs to be +5 for acid flasks, +10 for alchemist's fire, smokesticks, and tindertwigs, and +15 for antitoxins, sunrods, tanglefoot bags, and thunderstones." As to poison being largely unavailable as a crafted item for low level characters - that is by design. If a 3rd level crafter could make Purple Worm poison (Injury DC24, 1d6 Str, 2d6 Str) for 350gp and someone without the craft could buy Large Scorpion Venom (Injury DC18, 1d6 Str, 1d6 Str) - for 200gp - I think we'd see a LOT of crafters upping for the purple worm poison. Of course, I'm speculating on that last bit. Regardless - it is clearly stated in the rules the way the skills are to be used.
Snommelp 10-11-05, 01:34 PM	Actually, that third bolded line goes perfectly with the first one. It's just the second that conflicts. And as for that second one, I'm agreeing with TelinArtho - specific overrides general.
NiQil 10-11-05, 01:37 PM	Well, NiQil - let's use the "specific overrules the generic" guideline that is often quoted for the core books (and yes I realize the rules thread is not the "core" book - but I'm making a correlation here...). In this case, in general, the craft skills are used with a take 10 mentality. However, in the specific case of Poisonmaking, you use the "skill modifier of at least as high as the respective poison's DC." And in the specific case of Alchemy, "[y]our Craft alchemy modifier needs to be +5 for acid flasks, +10 for alchemist's fire, smokesticks, and tindertwigs, and +15 for antitoxins, sunrods, tanglefoot bags, and thunderstones." As to poison being largely unavailable as a crafted item for low level characters - that is by design. If a 3rd level crafter could make Purple Worm poison (Injury DC24, 1d6 Str, 2d6 Str) for 350gp and someone without the craft could buy Large Scorpion Venom (Injury DC18, 1d6 Str, 1d6 Str) - for 200gp - I think we'd see a LOT of crafters upping for the purple worm poison. Of course, I'm speculating on that last bit. Regardless - it is clearly stated in the rules the way the skills are to be used. Normally I would agree with you in that the poisonmaking should probably be higher level....but then why say you can take 10 on all craft checks? If that was meant to only apply to the weaponsmithing, armorsmithing and bowmaking crafts, then it definitely needs to be edited. As it stands, the Rules thread is in direct conflict with itself. That's the reason I was trying to get a clarification. If you can't take 10 on poisonmaking and alchemy crafting, that's fine....I would just like it clarified. The whole reason I am asking is that I am building an assassin, and both alchemy and poisonmaking will be a large part of his reportiore. But if take 10 is not allowed on those two skills, that is going to have a large bearing on how I build the character.
Snommelp 10-11-05, 01:39 PM	NiQil, take another look at alchemy - it follows the take 10 rule. Poisonmaking doesn't, currently, so I'll agree that the Rules should be tweaked a bit (change "all" to "most").
NiQil 10-11-05, 01:42 PM	NiQil, take another look at alchemy - it follows the take 10 rule. Poisonmaking doesn't, currently, so I'll agree that the Rules should be tweaked a bit (change "all" to "most"). Hmm...you're right. I didn't notice that. So it's just the poisonmaking that is in conflict. One line says you can, the other implies you can't. The reason I think that you can is, but not taking 10, to craft dragon bile poison, you would have to be a high level character, and that just doesn't seem right. Figure a wizard with an 18 Int to start is a +4, skill focus gets you +3, a lab gets you +2, max ranks of 17 would put you at 14th level to be able to craft it without taking 10. That just doesn't seem correct to me. Obviously those numbers can be pushed around a little to decrease the level, but that's just a baseline example. To craft even as something as simple as Drow poison (DC 13), you would have to push to do that at 3rd level....18 Int, 6 ranks, 2 lab and 3 skill focus would be doable, but you'd have to center your build around that, for the most part.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-11-05, 01:46 PM	Normally I would agree with you in that the poisonmaking should probably be higher level....but then why say you can take 10 on all craft checks? If that was meant to only apply to the weaponsmithing, armorsmithing and bowmaking crafts, then it definitely needs to be edited. As it stands, the Rules thread is in direct conflict with itself. That's the reason I was trying to get a clarification. If you can't take 10 on poisonmaking and alchemy crafting, that's fine....I would just like it clarified. The whole reason I am asking is that I am building an assassin, and both alchemy and poisonmaking will be a large part of his reportiore. But if take 10 is not allowed on those two skills, that is going to have a large bearing on how I build the character. You do actually take 10 on your craft poisonmaking. But if the total of "10"+skill lvl does not equal to 10+Poison DC, you simply cannot create it. Personally, i thought the example was clear. But then again, that's just me. Carrion Brain Juice, DC 13. Requires a check result on your craft:poisonmaking skill roll of 23 to create. If you have a +11 in craft: poisonmaking, then when you take 10 to create it, you only come up with 21...not enough. Hope this clears things up for you a bit. Hmm...you're right. I didn't notice that. So it's just the poisonmaking that is in conflict. One line says you can, the other implies you can't. I don't see the conflict. -ToK
Usurpator 10-11-05, 01:51 PM	NiQil, you are mistaking the poison's save DC for the Craft DC. The Craft DC for poison is 10 + the save DC. You are assumed to take 10 on Craft checks as with other skills. That is why you need the save DC as modifier, same as you need the AC bonus of armor as modifier to make a particular kind of armor.... Its just badly worded in the rules....
NiQil 10-11-05, 01:53 PM	NiQil, you are mistaking the poison's save DC for the Craft DC. The Craft DC for poison is 10 + the save DC. You are assumed to take 10 on Craft checks as with other skills. That is why you need the save DC as modifier, same as you need the AC bonus of armor as modifier to make a particular kind of armor.... Its just badly worded in the rules.... Apparantly so....I couldn't find anywhere in the SRD that said what the craft DC was....just in the Rules thread. Maybe I just overlooked it. Can someone point me to the craft DC for the poisons in the SRD? Edit: That appears to be where my confusion is stemming from....I cannot find anything under the Crafting skill or under Poisons in the SRD that says what their craft DC is. Is the 10+poison DC rule something that CoCo made up for it's own use?
Luni 10-11-05, 02:00 PM	Apparantly so....I couldn't find anywhere in the SRD that said what the craft DC was....just in the Rules thread. Maybe I just overlooked it. Can someone point me to the craft DC for the poisons in the SRD? Well, there are none. The Craft DC's for poison are not covered in the PHB, DMG or MM. They are covered in the Complete Adventurer, but I think the DC's for crafting there are way too low.
NiQil 10-11-05, 02:49 PM	Alright...someone wanna check Amantar and Kermadec for errors?
SauroGrenom 10-11-05, 02:53 PM	Here is another related question, can psicrystals hold and use things like a pearl of brainlock or potion? Looking at the "Rules of the Game" article, I see that familiars are able to use items. It appears that use activated items are usable so long at the creature is physically compatable with the use. This raises the question of what types of items a psicrystal(or any familiar for that matter) can hold and use. It seams reasonable that since a psicrystal has a climb speed that it is able to grip things with its legs. The psicrystal might be able to use items like Dust of Appearance, or feed a potion of healing to an unconsious master. Magical items resize to fit their users, so the crystal may have trouble wearing a ring of spellstoring because it lacks fingers, but boots of speed may fit on the ectoplasmic feet. I see no prohibition against allowing a psicrystal to use psionic tattoos and crawling tattoos. If these little guys are quadraped, then they can carry up to 1.5lbs of gear! At 0.1lbs/ potion, one crystal can carry 15 potions! If you don't want all those potions, for one pound the crystal can carry your choice of may different wonderous items.
NiQil 10-11-05, 03:01 PM	Here is another related question, can psicrystals hold and use things like a pearl of brainlock or potion? Looking at the "Rules of the Game" article, I see that familiars are able to use items. It appears that use activated items are usable so long at the creature is physically compatable with the use. This raises the question of what types of items a psicrystal(or any familiar for that matter) can hold and use. It seams reasonable that since a psicrystal has a climb speed that it is able to grip things with its legs. The psicrystal might be able to use items like Dust of Appearance, or feed a potion of healing to an unconsious master. Magical items resize to fit their users, so the crystal may have trouble wearing a ring of spellstoring because it lacks fingers, but boots of speed may fit on the ectoplasmic feet. I see no prohibition against allowing a psicrystal to use psionic tattoos and crawling tattoos. If these little guys are quadraped, then they can carry up to 1.5lbs of gear! At 0.1lbs/ potion, one crystal can carry 15 potions! If you don't want all those potions, for one pound the crystal can carry your choice of may different wonderous items. Just for the record...potions weigh one ounce at most....16 potions to a pound....so in your example it could carry 24 potions.
SauroGrenom 10-11-05, 03:02 PM	Looks like Amantar's mithril chain shirt only wieghs 10lbs, and it should weigh 12.5. Other than that I didn't notice anything.
NiQil 10-11-05, 03:06 PM	Looks like Amantar's mithril chain shirt only wieghs 10lbs, and it should weigh 12.5. Other than that I didn't notice anything. Nope... Mithral Shirt: This extremely light chain shirt is made of very fine mithral links. Speed while wearing a mithral shirt is 30 feet for Medium creatures, or 20 feet for Small. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 10%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +6, and no armor check penalty. It is considered light armor and weighs 10 pounds. No aura (nonmagical); Price 1,100 gp. Emphasis mine.
TelinArtho 10-11-05, 03:06 PM	Mithril chain shirts do weigh 10 lbs - it is specifically listed as such in the SRD in the magic items section (which overrules the general statement in the special materials section).
SauroGrenom 10-11-05, 03:06 PM	Just for the record...potions weigh one ounce at most....16 potions to a pound....so in your example it could carry 24 potions. I've often wondered about this. The SRD potions section says that potions contain one ounce of liquid, but what about the container? In the Equipment section of the SRD, flasks weigh at least 1/2 pound. Simularly how much does a scroll weigh, or a psi stone?
NiQil 10-11-05, 03:08 PM	I've often wondered about this. The SRD potions section says that potions contain one ounce of liquid, but what about the container? In the Equipment section of the SRD, flasks weigh at least 1/2 pound. Simularly how much does a scroll weigh, or a psi stone? The potion, as far as I know, is assumed to be both the weight of the potion and the container. Vials are listed with no weight, meaning the weight is so negligible as to not bother with it. Vials are most likely what potions are in. Same with scrolls and stones....negligible weight not worth mentioning.
TelinArtho 10-11-05, 03:09 PM	See! I don't kill ALL of my questors... BOTH The Gatekeeper and Talari Leafwhisperer were able to defeat their opposing encounters. Some highlights: 1. A Summoned Centipede successfully threatened a critical on a summoned dire wolf in 3 consecutive rounds - and confirmed twice. AND the wolf still stood afterwards! 2. The Gatekeeper was miraculously healed 10hp when he was allowed an AoO after an attack roll was already made - which felled the creature attacking him... I praise both of my questors in this case because, although they faced a tough situation to start, they both managed to come through with success! /d
TelinArtho 10-11-05, 03:14 PM	It should also be noted that the naga successfully cast 11 spells (24 spell-levels worth...) during Talari's encounter. Summon Monster III (x3) Invisibility (x1) Mirror Image (x2) Expeditious Retreat (x1) True Strike Melf's Acid Arrow (x2) Protection from Energy
Luni 10-11-05, 04:27 PM	It should also be noted that the naga successfully cast 11 spells (24 spell-levels worth...) during Talari's encounter. Summon Monster III (x3) Invisibility (x1) Mirror Image (x2) Expeditious Retreat (x1) True Strike Melf's Acid Arrow (x2) Protection from Energy I think quest badguys should be restricted on their spells too. Talari doesn't even have 24 spell levels.
TelinArtho 10-11-05, 04:41 PM	I don't know - that doesn't seem like too good an idea unless the spell selection is more tailored. In the case of the water naga, it is pretty combat heavy - but not all have a "default" list that is oriented that way. I did switch out suggestion for Summon Monster III (which admittedly made it stronger), but as a standard creature, it would be limited severely by the 1/3 caster restriction. And remember, you can use all of your spell levels in the fight - so its not like you face that restriction. A water naga has 35 total spell levels. With the 1/3rd rule - he'd have had 12 spell levels to cast. Essentially, he'd drop all three of the cast Summon Monster III spells - and that completely changes the fight (in my opinion).
SauroGrenom 10-11-05, 04:55 PM	Here is a snarky little detail that I just noticed: Familiars use their master's bab whatever it may be. There is no text in the SRD that indicates that psicrystals do the same. I would assume that the bab of psicrystals advances as a construct of their HD, so +3/4 per level. If there is no advancement at all, then the usefullness of the ability to deliver touch attacks is seriously inhibited as levels increase. If the psicrystal advances by HD, then does it gain feats every few levels as normal constructs do?
SauroGrenom 10-11-05, 05:05 PM	BAH! Here is another snarky contradiction in the rules! A psicrystal’s characteristics depend on its master. Its Hit Dice are equal to its master’s Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder), its hit points are equal to half its master’s, and its saving throw bonuses are the same as its master’s. Psicrystal abilities are based on the owner’s levels in psionic classes. Levels from other classes do not count toward the owner’s level for purposes of psicrystal abilities. I suppose that the more specific rule takes precidence, so a PsiWarrior can take the feat but is considered a level 0 in a psionic class for the purpose of the psicrystal HD but not abilities.
Vathelokai 10-11-05, 05:10 PM	nevermind...
NiQil 10-11-05, 05:10 PM	BAH! Here is another snarky contradiction in the rules! I suppose that the more specific rule takes precidence, so a PsiWarrior can take the feat but is considered a level 0 in a psionic class for the purpose of the psicrystal abilities. Actually, both would apply at the same time. It's abilities are based on all psionic levels, but it's hit dice, hit points and saves only use psion and wilder classes. At least, that is how I read it....the two statements are not exclusive...one works within the other.
TheMagister 10-11-05, 06:52 PM	Man, those Gladius Arena Weekly's are awesome! I have so much fun reading about the good fights and dangerous quests. Excellent work, m'man. TM
Book5 10-11-05, 07:53 PM	I concure! The weekly is cool! I really want to see Tan's name in the headlines! :D :shifty: maybe a byline? Bard after all... @Usurpator - Have your people contact my goblin. - Tan.
DMing 10-11-05, 07:57 PM	hey DMing is in the house. i'm new to this tread so if i do something wrong pm me asap thank you DMing
TheMagister 10-11-05, 08:10 PM	Cleric with the magic domain has an intelligence of 10. Can he activate ANY scrolls at all? Edit: I'm an idiot. Answered my own question. TM
Luni 10-11-05, 09:41 PM	Cleric with the magic domain has an intelligence of 10. Can he activate ANY scrolls at all? Edit: I'm an idiot. Answered my own question. TM The answer is yes. Said cleric can use any scrolls of Mage Hand he finds.
Book5 10-11-05, 09:51 PM	The answer is yes. Said cleric can use any scrolls of Mage Hand he finds. I say no 10+0 = 10 = clerics +int = mage hand = funny. Your right of course.
SauroGrenom 10-11-05, 11:33 PM	Kracknol (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7476824&posted=1#post7476824) is up, please give him a look over and let me know if you see anything wrong.
Snommelp 10-11-05, 11:38 PM	The Gladius Weekly is wrong... Sam and Aerandir lost their quest this week. Of course, news of this probably hadn't reached Gladius yet, so that's no surprise. Be warned: the Curse of Crovax lives!
Iced 10-11-05, 11:41 PM	See! I don't kill ALL of my questors... BOTH The Gatekeeper and Talari Leafwhisperer were able to defeat their opposing encounters. Some highlights: 1. A Summoned Centipede successfully threatened a critical on a summoned dire wolf in 3 consecutive rounds - and confirmed twice. AND the wolf still stood afterwards! 2. The Gatekeeper was miraculously healed 10hp when he was allowed an AoO after an attack roll was already made - which felled the creature attacking him... I praise both of my questors in this case because, although they faced a tough situation to start, they both managed to come through with success! /d :P that they did! :fight!: :pint: :ghosted:
SauroGrenom 10-12-05, 12:14 AM	What is to protocol or permissions necessary to change already existing characters feats or skills that have never been used in a fight? Specifically, If a character has ranks in a skill that is has not been used can they be swapped into another skill? Also if a character has a feat that has never been used, can it be reassigned?
Book5 10-12-05, 12:30 AM	This has to have come up before :shifty: but there are 132 pages ... to this thread. Paladins and actions in the Arena? Not that anyone would play a paladin if they were optimizing.. but is there a CoCo convention? Probably more for quests than for arena. You would have to actually wittingly (or worse ... :looloo: ) go and declare an "evil" tactic. Can there be an "evil" tactic in a death match? Can a paladin rightly participate in a deathmatch? The Nimbus probably makes the answer yes regardless, however it is an interesting question. And as I said, this has most likely come up at least once before. Just thinking, wonder how many paladins there are.... Wasnt that in the newspaper? The raggedy fellow pulls his magical chain mail over his head and thinks in scattered thoughts. The not really death that could await him far from his mind. That would make a good bit.. Two paladins walk into the arena.... He wonders what Jimmy the red nose has found out at the guild(TOA) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=229519&page=5)
Tellish_of_Ket 10-12-05, 06:49 AM	hey DMing is in the house. i'm new to this tread so if i do something wrong pm me asap thank you DMing Welcome to the board. Hopefully you'll enjoy your stay here as much as most people here do. Don't be shy to ask questions and to post a character. -ToK
Tellish_of_Ket 10-12-05, 08:37 AM	Ok, i admit, i've never tried flurry with twf before, so i might be off. So lets just assume a Ftr 4/Mnk 7 has the following to-hit bonuses. Is my chart accurate? BaB: +9/+4 +9bab, +7dex, +1mw, +1focus= +18 to hit with q-staff (+1). +9bab, +7dex, +5mfg= +21 to hit unarmed (+5 greater magic fang). +20/+20/+15 flurry unarmed +18/+18/+18/+13 flurry+twf unarmed +18/+18/+18/+13/+13 flurr+twf+imptwf unarmed +17/+20/+12 flurry q-staff/unarmed/q-staff +15/+18/+15/+10 flurry q-staff/unarmed twf (q-staff/unamred/q-staff/q-staff) +15/+18/+15/+13/+10 flurry q-staff/unarmed twf+imptwf (q-staff/unamred/q-staff/unarmed/q-staff) +17/+17/+12 flurry q-staff +15/+15/+15/+10 flurry q-staff +twf +15/+15/+15/+10/+10 flurry q-staff +twf +imptwf -ToK
TelinArtho 10-12-05, 09:56 AM	The Gladius Weekly is wrong... Sam and Aerandir lost their quest this week. Of course, news of this probably hadn't reached Gladius yet, so that's no surprise. Be warned: the Curse of Crovax lives! Actually, to be precise, you didn't die on one of my quests - which is what the curse of Crovax is. Of course, Crovax was preceded with the death of Zamier - so it should probably be the Curse of Zamier - but the alliteration is so much better with Crovax...
TelinArtho 10-12-05, 10:02 AM	Well, we're all here to learn, and this was an issue for one of my characters this week, so in the future - he'll need some tactics to get over it: Invisibility vs a non-spellcaster - specifically a Sahaugin Fighter... I'm looking for relatively inexpensive means of thwarting or at least rendering partially null the benefits of invisibility. I'm sure Aquin will do just fine if he can find his opponent. Right now he's got +8 on his listen - decent, but nothing special. 1. Improve listen with tattoo of synesthete (100gp per - so not too expensive). Could be rendered permanent by purchasing a custom item (+5 listen) for 2500gp and a few credits (certainly an option). 2. After invisible person is found - dust of appearance? The stuff costs too much to be useful. Maybe a bag of flour? Tanglefoot bag? 3. Something to see invisible? Limited options here and they are all expensive as far as I know - Gem of Sight, Lantern of Revealing - anything cheaper? 4. Get an ally that can use its blindsight (I have blindsense, but can't use it since I'm not underwater...), or tremorsense or something similar. 5. Throw the arena underwater... I'm looking for viable suggestions here. Any ideas?
NiQil 10-12-05, 10:14 AM	Well, we're all here to learn, and this was an issue for one of my characters this week, so in the future - he'll need some tactics to get over it: Invisibility vs a non-spellcaster - specifically a Sahaugin Fighter... I'm looking for relatively inexpensive means of thwarting or at least rendering partially null the benefits of invisibility. I'm sure Aquin will do just fine if he can find his opponent. Right now he's got +8 on his listen - decent, but nothing special. 1. Improve listen with tattoo of synesthete (100gp per - so not too expensive). Could be rendered permanent by purchasing a custom item (+5 listen) for 2500gp and a few credits (certainly an option). 2. After invisible person is found - dust of appearance? The stuff costs too much to be useful. Maybe a bag of flour? Tanglefoot bag? 3. Something to see invisible? Limited options here and they are all expensive as far as I know - Gem of Sight, Lantern of Revealing - anything cheaper? 4. Get an ally that can use its blindsight (I have blindsense, but can't use it since I'm not underwater...), or tremorsense or something similar. 5. Throw the arena underwater... I'm looking for viable suggestions here. Any ideas? When you can do it, the Blind-Fight feat would help quite a bit for when they are invisible....but as far as finding them or lighting them up, I guess it all depends on what items you can find. I might recommend a custom item that will allow you to use faerie fire....once you've pinpointed them, you can illuminate them with it. As far as finding them, another custom item would be something that gives you true seeing. Going this route would negate the need for faerie fire. But it won't be cheap. Without being a spellcaster, the ability to circumvent invisibility is really limited to wondrous items, for the most part....at least in my experience.
SauroGrenom 10-12-05, 10:17 AM	A Hand of Glory will allow you to see invisibility. See invisibility can be made permanent. Buy a hunting or riding dog to use against opponents with invisibility. Leave the dog at home if invisibility is not going to be an issue that way you only take the XP penalty if necessary. You can even spend a few extra gp to customize the skills and get the dog's survival skill up to 5, so with scent he will automatically succeed on the track check. Riding dogs get free trip attempts on a hit. You could also buy psionic shards. These are reasonably priced single use items that give a bonus to any skill you choose.
TelinArtho 10-12-05, 10:22 AM	Gem of Seeing is an item that allows you to use True Seeing NiQil - so no custom item needed. The problem is it costs 75k. A much cheaper alternative is the lantern of revealing at 30k (Invisibility Purge 30ft radius). However, the hand of glory, at 8k - seems like the best option. I could care less for the daylight power (maybe I'll make it a custom item and put a darkness-type spell of equivalent power instead...). Its actually not that expensive either (for 6th level character anyway...)
Tellish_of_Ket 10-12-05, 10:25 AM	Hand of glory or perm see invis are you two best choices. A mount just won't work if your opponent is flying. The thing about hand of glory vs perm see invis, is that it takes up a neck slot. You may want to save that for shielding vs mm's if you're a warrior. -ToK
TelinArtho 10-12-05, 10:30 AM	Permanent See Invisibility isn't really an option since it is a personal spell (the example is clearly spelled out in the rules thread) - unless Aquin was able to cast it normally - he can't make it permanent on himself.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-12-05, 10:49 AM	Permanent See Invisibility isn't really an option since it is a personal spell (the example is clearly spelled out in the rules thread) - unless Aquin was able to cast it normally - he can't make it permanent on himself. OH...didn't know what character class you were. Sorry. -ToK
One_Winged_Angel 10-12-05, 10:50 AM	Hand of Glory is generally the best option in my opinion. By the time you can afford a hand of glory, magic missile will typically be of little threat to you as a warrior. Invisibility remains, as it always has been, a sticky spell to get out of. This is one reason that people used to invest one or two levels in a caster class: to counter casters. In general, an unmounted melee character is caster food in the arena. I've seen one or two exceptions, however.
NiQil 10-12-05, 11:03 AM	Hand of Glory is generally the best option in my opinion. By the time you can afford a hand of glory, magic missile will typically be of little threat to you as a warrior. Invisibility remains, as it always has been, a sticky spell to get out of. This is one reason that people used to invest one or two levels in a caster class: to counter casters. In general, an unmounted melee character is caster food in the arena. I've seen one or two exceptions, however. And I would guess some of those examples include monks optimized for caster killing, which they were born to do LOL.
Sunwolf 10-12-05, 11:18 AM	Ok, i admit, i've never tried flurry with twf before, so i might be off. So lets just assume a Ftr 4/Mnk 7 has the following to-hit bonuses. Is my chart accurate? BaB: +9/+4 +9bab, +7dex, +1mw, +1focus= +18 to hit with q-staff (+1). +9bab, +7dex, +5mfg= +21 to hit unarmed (+5 greater magic fang). +20/+20/+15 flurry unarmed +18/+18/+18/+13 flurry+twf unarmed +18/+18/+18/+13/+13 flurr+twf+imptwf unarmed +17/+20/+12 flurry q-staff/unarmed/q-staff +15/+18/+15/+10 flurry q-staff/unarmed twf (q-staff/unamred/q-staff/q-staff) +15/+18/+15/+13/+10 flurry q-staff/unarmed twf+imptwf (q-staff/unamred/q-staff/unarmed/q-staff) +17/+17/+12 flurry q-staff +15/+15/+15/+10 flurry q-staff +twf +15/+15/+15/+10/+10 flurry q-staff +twf +imptwf -ToK The attack bonuses look okay. Damage from all the twf attacks will only get the 1/2 str modifier as normal. I am not sure if you can use an unarmed attack as the extra attack from twf since flurry is in effect doing the same thing.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-12-05, 11:33 AM	The attack bonuses look okay. Damage from all the twf attacks will only get the 1/2 str modifier as normal. I am not sure if you can use an unarmed attack as the extra attack from twf since flurry is in effect doing the same thing. Well, i'm doing it with a q-staff, and they are interchangeable with flurries. But i think you're thinking i can't use twf and flurry at the same time? I've seen a lot of builds like this before, and have heard of people getting the most out of their attacks per round on the optimization thread...so i'm gonna work on the assumption that it's possible. That many optimizers can't be wrong. (well, they can, but i don't think so in this case) -ToK
NiQil 10-12-05, 11:42 AM	Yes, you can flurry with TWF....I believe it even has a blurb about that in the FAQ, though I could be mistaken. And yes, you can use an unarmed strike as an offhand attack, as unarmed attacks are always considered light weapons.
SoulLord 10-12-05, 12:00 PM	Gem of Seeing is an item that allows you to use True Seeing NiQil - so no custom item needed. The problem is it costs 75k. A much cheaper alternative is the lantern of revealing at 30k (Invisibility Purge 30ft radius). However, the hand of glory, at 8k - seems like the best option. I could care less for the daylight power (maybe I'll make it a custom item and put a darkness-type spell of equivalent power instead...). Its actually not that expensive either (for 6th level character anyway...) Well if you are concerned about invisibility there also the darkness spells which the hand can also counter so perhaps its better to save the credits and keep the daylight option.
TelinArtho 10-12-05, 12:03 PM	He's a sahaugin - daylight would daze him for a round and then he'd be dazzled beyond that... darkness I can handle... It really isn't the miss chance that's bothering me either. As a full attack - Aquin gets 5 attacks (4 melee weapons and a bite). The problem is finding the invisible bugger...
SoulLord 10-12-05, 12:12 PM	He's a sahaugin - daylight would daze him for a round and then he'd be dazzled beyond that... darkness I can handle... It really isn't the miss chance that's bothering me either. As a full attack - Aquin gets 5 attacks (4 melee weapons and a bite). The problem is finding the invisible bugger... A suggestion for when you do find him. Tatoo of psionic lions charge full attack after a charge!
TelinArtho 10-12-05, 12:33 PM	Lion's Charge eh? Might be good for a rainy day tactic. 600gp for a tattoo... still might be worth having. Thanks for pointing it out.
SoulLord 10-12-05, 12:53 PM	Would armor spell failure apply to Familiars when they are the designated touchers of a spell? I would like to believe that No since they are not the ones casting the spell.
Luni 10-12-05, 01:32 PM	Would armor spell failure apply to Familiars when they are the designated touchers of a spell? I would like to believe that No since they are not the ones casting the spell. You answered your own question. They are just the touchers. The wizard does all the tough work and has to check for armor.
Usurpator 10-12-05, 01:35 PM	Lycanthrope Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature (Base Animal) + Base Race (+0 unless a LA race) +2 (afflicted) or +3 (natural); a lycanthrope’s ECL is calculated: Base Animal HD + Lycanthrope (afflicted or natural) + Class Levels. Example: Natural Human Werewolf Fighter 2 = (Human +0) + (Lycanthrope +3 Inherited) + (Wolf +1) (Fighter +2) = ECL 6 Shouldn't this example be ECL 7 +2 Animal HD (A Wolf has 2 HD) + 3 (natural) +2 Fighter levels = ECL 7?
sloisel 10-12-05, 02:56 PM	Lion's Charge eh? Might be good for a rainy day tactic. 600gp for a tattoo... still might be worth having. Thanks for pointing it out. Warning, I've already sent one hapless character to the prison without possibility of parole for having written on the character sheet that he could use his tattoo of empty mind as an immediate action. Was it Gonbow's? Speaking of Gonbow, the fight between Gang Lion and Auburn is still pending, but since my character sheet has been copied into that fight already, I will go ahead and edit Gang Lion so that he gets paired this week. I'll make sure not to spend more money than I'll get from this fight, that is, I'll write the fight down as a loss for now, possibly updating my sheet later. Sébastien Loisel
KerlanRayne 10-12-05, 03:00 PM	Lion's Charge eh? Might be good for a rainy day tactic. 600gp for a tattoo... still might be worth having. Thanks for pointing it out.Useless. Takes a standard action to activate. KerlanRayne
SoulLord 10-12-05, 03:04 PM	Useless. Takes a standard action to activate. KerlanRayne Indeed I did not notice it is instantaneous... well you could always get psychic warrior levels to cast it as a swift action :)
TelinArtho 10-12-05, 03:08 PM	Yeah - I had pretty much decided I wasn't getting it anyway... still - a charging mutant sahaugin that can full attack on a charge sounds like fun. Alas - I'm not especially fond of trying out the psionics stuff (I have yet to play a campaign where they are allowed - and for that matter don't allow them in my games). Anyway - he'll be progressing into a magic using class - I'm just not sure when yet.
Vathelokai 10-12-05, 03:08 PM	Warning, I've already sent one hapless character to the prison without possibility of parole for having written on the character sheet that he could use his tattoo of empty mind as an immediate action. Was it Gonbow's? Speaking of Gonbow, the fight between Gang Lion and Auburn is still pending, but since my character sheet has been copied into that fight already, I will go ahead and edit Gang Lion so that he gets paired this week. I'll make sure not to spend more money than I'll get from this fight, that is, I'll write the fight down as a loss for now, possibly updating my sheet later. Sébastien Loisel Same here.
Vathelokai 10-12-05, 03:38 PM	Disclaimer: I don't want the answer to this question to change the pending fight...just want an answer... Can a tiny creature charge? A tiny creature has to enter their opponents space to attack, and charges cannot be performed if you have to travel into or through an opponents space. Secondly, I am under the impression that you cannot AOO a charging opponent. This being the case, can you still do the AOO against a charging opponent who enters your space?
Vathelokai 10-12-05, 03:45 PM	Yeah - I had pretty much decided I wasn't getting it anyway... still - a charging mutant sahaugin that can full attack on a charge sounds like fun. Alas - I'm not especially fond of trying out the psionics stuff (I have yet to play a campaign where they are allowed - and for that matter don't allow them in my games). Anyway - he'll be progressing into a magic using class - I'm just not sure when yet. I'd take the level of cleric with the magic domain. You can use wands of healing and see invisibility.
TelinArtho 10-12-05, 03:47 PM	Can a tiny creature charge? A tiny creature has to enter their opponents space to attack, and charges cannot be performed if you have to travel into or through an opponents space. Secondly, I am under the impression that you cannot AOO a charging opponent. This being the case, can you still do the AOO against a charging opponent who enters your space? Where does it say you can't take an AoO on a charging opponent? Isn't that the main benefit of having reach weapons? As to whether a tiny (or smaller creature) can charge is certainly debatable. I am of the opinion that they can - but that they would still provoke an AoO when moving out of threatened squares (such as from 5ft to 0ft).
TelinArtho 10-12-05, 03:50 PM	I'd take the level of cleric with the magic domain. You can use wands of healing and see invisibility. Well, I'm still creating characters who have a reasonable space within my own D&D world - which means that before a religion can be created - a basis must be established. And frankly, the magic domain is very underrepresented (only two religions in my world have access to it). Nope - Aquin might become a cleric - but it will probably be with one of my Sahaugin gods (not Denth amazingly enough) - so Water, Evil, Darkness, and maybe one other are all available as options. And that's if he goes cleric.
Luni 10-12-05, 04:11 PM	Disclaimer: I don't want the answer to this question to change the pending fight...just want an answer... Can a tiny creature charge? A tiny creature has to enter their opponents space to attack, and charges cannot be performed if you have to travel into or through an opponents space. Secondly, I am under the impression that you cannot AOO a charging opponent. This being the case, can you still do the AOO against a charging opponent who enters your space? Well, Tiny creatures can move through any creatures space. They still provoke an AoO, but a cat could run through 10 goblins lined up for 50' movement.
Delusional Illusion 10-12-05, 04:11 PM	New battle week almost here after waiting so long for my previous fight to finish. I better go make those final adjustements. And as a side note and partly the reason I made this post ;) I have no shame :P: I'm now a year older, totaling 20 years. Happy birthday to me :king:
Vathelokai 10-12-05, 04:22 PM	Happy birthday to me :king:Tell Cat and he'll give you a credit. Happy Birthday!
NiQil 10-12-05, 04:24 PM	Well, Tiny creatures can move through any creatures space. They still provoke an AoO, but a cat could run through 10 goblins lined up for 50' movement. That sounds like a fun game....when did you plan on doing that? I'll supply the cat....
Vathelokai 10-12-05, 04:37 PM	Where does it say you can't take an AoO on a charging opponent? Isn't that the main benefit of having reach weapons?I thought I was wrong about that. Isn't the AOO for entering an opponents space actually the same AOO the opponent gets for them leaving a threatened square?
Vathelokai 10-12-05, 04:40 PM	Well, Tiny creatures can move through any creatures space. They still provoke an AoO, but a cat could run through 10 goblins lined up for 50' movement.True, but charge has a very specific description of what a 'clear path' is. Since the tiny creature would have to enter a filled space, they technicly couldn't do it. I think it should get added to our house rules, until it finds its way to FAQ/Eratta.
SauroGrenom 10-12-05, 04:44 PM	Vath, Yes it is. BTW A cat can charge. It just grants an AoO along the way. If the cat survives the AoO it can enter your square and attack you. As far as I know you cannot charge through a square that is occupied by another character, but you can charge into a square occupied by another character. A related question is if a swarm can charge.
Usurpator 10-12-05, 04:51 PM	True, but charge has a very specific description of what a 'clear path' is. Since the tiny creature would have to enter a filled space, they technicly couldn't do it. I think it should get added to our house rules, until it finds its way to FAQ/Eratta. Doesn't it say moving 'through' a occupied square as opposed to moving 'into' an occupied square? Besides, such creatures not being able to charge is just an artefact of the rules written from the POV of Medium creatures. There is no reason to assume that two Grig's fighting a sword duel would be unable to charge one another....
Vathelokai 10-12-05, 04:52 PM	Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.)This would be the sentence in question.
Vathelokai 10-12-05, 04:53 PM	Doesn't it say moving 'through' a occupied square as opposed to moving 'into' an occupied square? Besides, such creatures not being able to charge is just an artefact of the rules written from the POV of Medium creatures. There is no reason to assume that two Grig's fighting a sword duel would be unable to charge one another.... Absolutely. That is why I suggest a note in the house rules of gladius.
sloisel 10-12-05, 06:26 PM	Yeah - I had pretty much decided I wasn't getting it anyway... still - a charging mutant sahaugin that can full attack on a charge sounds like fun. I'm on my second psywar right now and the first one was going to take psionic lion's charge, but I decided it's not worth it. You're better off with hustle. Hustle can be cast as a swift action (a free action, but only one swift action per round) and grants you a move action. Ok, you can't move as far as with a charge but you can round a corner and still attack. Moreover, this can be used for other purposes than moving then attacking. For instance, dimension slide, which can be cast (for 4 extra pp) as a move action. So you can teleport for free and then full attack. Alas, the range of dimension slide sucks and the trick doesn't work with psionic dimension door: while PDD can be cast as a move action (by paying more pp), it still works "as dimension door", which specifically forbids you from acting after arriving at your destination. Sébastien Loisel
MysticMonk2005 10-12-05, 11:47 PM	:/ Lissa didn't get paired, not even on the roster yet...
Caterane 10-13-05, 04:03 AM	:/ Lissa didn't get paired, not even on the roster yet... Normally, the player sends a PM to Pitlords ;)
MysticMonk2005 10-13-05, 04:04 AM	i did, I both posted here and PM'd pitlords on monday.
Iced 10-13-05, 04:30 AM	Can somebody please Audit Griff (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5600135) for me? thanks, ~Iced
Pitlords 10-13-05, 05:11 AM	i did, I both posted here and PM'd pitlords on monday. The Lady's on the roster and paired against some gnomes.
Pitlords 10-13-05, 05:14 AM	I still have two Guilds to give away. I'll probably give out 1° per week for Guildmasters. The Psi Consortium The Watchful Eye If you're interested in running one, PM me! It's a lot of fun, I promise.
Sunwolf 10-13-05, 08:33 AM	The following text is copied from the FAQ. Originally Posted by Frequently Asked Questions The description of the flurry of blows ability says there’s no such thing as a monk attacking with an off-hand weapon during a flurry of blows. What does that mean, exactly? Can the monk make off-hand attacks in addition to flurry attacks? Actually, the text to which you refer appears in the entry for unarmed strikes. When a monk uses her unarmed strike ability, she does not suffer any penalty for an off-hand attack, even when she has her hands full and attacks with her knees and elbows, using the flurry of blows ability to make extra attacks, or both. The rules don’t come right out and say that a monk can’t use an unarmed strike for an off-hand strike (although the exact wording of the unarmed strike ability suggests otherwise), and no compelling reason why a monk could not do so exists. When using an unarmed strike as an off-hand attack, the monk suffers all the usual attack penalties from two-weapon fighting (see Table 8–10 in the Player’s Handbook) and the monk adds only half her Strength bonus (if any) to damage if the off-hand unarmed strike hits. To add an off-hand attack to a flurry of blows, stack whatever two-weapon penalty the monk has with the penalty (if any) from the flurry. Attacks from the flurry have the monk’s full damage bonus from Strength, but the off-hand attack gains only half Strength bonus to damage. If the off-hand attack is a weapon, that weapon isn’t available for use in the flurry (if it can be used in a flurry at all, see the previous question). For example, a 4th-level monk with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat and a Strength score of 14 decides to use a flurry of blows and decides to throw in an off-hand attack as well. The monk has a base attack bonus of +3 and a +2 Strength bonus. With a flurry, the character can make two attacks, each at +3 (base +3, –2 flurry, +2 Strength). An unarmed strike is a light weapon, so the monk suffers an additional –2 penalty for both the flurry and the off-hand attack, and the monk makes three attacks, each at an attack bonus of +1. The two attacks from the flurry are primary attacks and add the monk’s full Strength bonus to damage of +2. The single off-hand attack adds half the monk’s Strength bonus to damage (+1). If the monk in our example has two sais to use with the flurry, plus the off-hand attack, she can use both in the flurry (in which case she must make the off-hand attack with an unarmed strike) or one sai for the off-hand attack and one with the flurry. The sai used in the off-hand attack is not available for the flurry and vice versa. Can a monk fight with two weapons? Can she combine a two-weapon attack with a flurry of blows? What are her penalties on attack rolls? A monk can fight with two weapons just like any other character, but she must accept the normal penalties on her attack rolls to do so. She can use an unarmed strike as an offhand weapon. She can even combine two-weapon fighting with a flurry of blows to gain an extra attack with her off hand (but remember that she can use only unarmed strikes or special monk weapons as part of the flurry). The penalties for twoweapon fighting stack with the penalties for flurry of blows. For example, at 6th level, the monk Ember can normally make one attack per round at a +4 bonus. When using flurry of blows, she can make two attacks (using unarmed strikes or any special monk weapons she holds), each at a +3 bonus. If she wants to make an extra attack with her off hand, she has to accept a –4 penalty on her primary hand attacks and a –8 penalty on her off-hand attacks (assuming she wields a light weapon in her off hand). If Ember has Two-Weapon Fighting, she has to accept only a –2 penalty on all attacks to make an extra attack with her off hand. Thus, when wielding a light weapon in her off hand during a flurry of blows, she can make a total of three attacks, each at a total bonus of +1. At least one of these attacks has to be with her off-hand weapon. A 20th-level monk with Greater Two-Weapon Fighting can make eight attacks per round during a flurry of blows. Assuming she wields a light weapon in her off hand, her three off-hand weapon attacks are at +13/+8/+3, and she has five attacks (at +13/+13/+13/+8/+3) with unarmed strikes or any weapons she carries in her primary hand. If the same monk also has Rapid Shot and throws at least one shuriken as part of her flurry of blows (since Rapid Shot can be used only with ranged attacks), she can throw one additional shuriken with her primary hand, but all of her attacks (even melee attacks) suffer a –2 penalty. Thus, her full attack array looks like this: +11/+11/+11/+11/+6/+1 primary hand Found this from the FAQ about the flurry and TWF combo for monks.
Ribking 10-13-05, 08:45 AM	Is it possible to have a loaded crossbow as equipment? My character has two Light Crossbows....could I start in the arena with both of them loaded but neither in hand?
Iced 10-13-05, 11:15 AM	Would a Darkmantle Zombie retain its improvd grab and constrict attacks? DARKMANTLE Small Magical Beast Hit Dice: 1d10+1 (6 hp) Initiative: +4 Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 30 ft. (poor) Armor Class: 17 (+1 size, +6 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 17 Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+0 Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d4+4) Full Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d4+4) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Darkness, improved grab, constrict 1d4+4 Special Qualities: Blindsight 90 ft. Saves: Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +0 Abilities: Str 16, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 10, Cha 10 Skills: Hide +10, Listen +5*, Spot +5* Feats: Improved Initiative Environment: Underground Organization: Solitary, pair, clutch (3–9), or swarm (6–15) Challenge Rating: 1 Treasure: None Alignment: Always neutral Advancement: 2–3 HD (Small) Level Adjustment: — The darkmantle hangs from a ceiling by a muscular “foot” at the top of its body. It can look like a stalactite, by holding its tentacles stiffly under itself, or like a lump of rock, spreading its tentacles so the membrane between them covers its body. Its shell and skin usually resemble limestone, but a darkmantle can change its color to match almost any type of stony background. A darkmantle is about 4 feet long from the tips of its tentacles to the top of its head. It weighs about 30 pounds. COMBAT A darkmantle attacks by dropping onto its prey and wrapping its tentacles around the opponent’s head. Once attached, it squeezes and tries to suffocate the foe. A darkmantle that misses its initial attack often flies up and tries to drop on the opponent again. Darkness (Su): Once per day a darkmantle can cause darkness as the darkness spell (caster level 5th). It most often uses this ability just before attacking. Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a darkmantle must hit a Large or smaller creature with its slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it attaches to the opponent’s head and can constrict. Constrict (Ex): A darkmantle deals 1d4+4 points of damage with a successful grapple check. Blindsight (Ex): A darkmantle can “see” by emitting high-frequency sounds, inaudible to most other creatures, that allows it to ascertain objects and creatures within 90 feet. A silence spell negates this ability and effectively blinds the darkmantle. Skills: A darkmantle has a +4 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks. These bonuses are lost if its blindsight is negated. The creature’s variable coloration gives it a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks.
Luni 10-13-05, 12:45 PM	Would a Darkmantle Zombie retain its improvd grab and constrict attacks? DARKMANTLE Small Magical Beast Hit Dice: 1d10+1 (6 hp) Initiative: +4 Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 30 ft. (poor) Armor Class: 17 (+1 size, +6 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 17 Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+0 Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d4+4) Full Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d4+4) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Darkness, improved grab, constrict 1d4+4 Special Qualities: Blindsight 90 ft. Saves: Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +0 Abilities: Str 16, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 10, Cha 10 Skills: Hide +10, Listen +5*, Spot +5* Feats: Improved Initiative Environment: Underground Organization: Solitary, pair, clutch (3–9), or swarm (6–15) Challenge Rating: 1 Treasure: None Alignment: Always neutral Advancement: 2–3 HD (Small) Level Adjustment: — The darkmantle hangs from a ceiling by a muscular “foot” at the top of its body. It can look like a stalactite, by holding its tentacles stiffly under itself, or like a lump of rock, spreading its tentacles so the membrane between them covers its body. Its shell and skin usually resemble limestone, but a darkmantle can change its color to match almost any type of stony background. A darkmantle is about 4 feet long from the tips of its tentacles to the top of its head. It weighs about 30 pounds. COMBAT A darkmantle attacks by dropping onto its prey and wrapping its tentacles around the opponent’s head. Once attached, it squeezes and tries to suffocate the foe. A darkmantle that misses its initial attack often flies up and tries to drop on the opponent again. Darkness (Su): Once per day a darkmantle can cause darkness as the darkness spell (caster level 5th). It most often uses this ability just before attacking. Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a darkmantle must hit a Large or smaller creature with its slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it attaches to the opponent’s head and can constrict. Constrict (Ex): A darkmantle deals 1d4+4 points of damage with a successful grapple check. Blindsight (Ex): A darkmantle can “see” by emitting high-frequency sounds, inaudible to most other creatures, that allows it to ascertain objects and creatures within 90 feet. A silence spell negates this ability and effectively blinds the darkmantle. Skills: A darkmantle has a +4 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks. These bonuses are lost if its blindsight is negated. The creature’s variable coloration gives it a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks. Nope. Special Attacks A zombie retains none of the base creature’s special attacks.
Usurpator 10-13-05, 01:33 PM	I am a bit concerned about the 'armor' and 'ally' switchers among the gladiators. I think the intention of the character sheet is to see how your opponent will enter the arena and prepare your tactics for that. You can't switch spells on the fly, I don't see why a character should be able to choose allies and or equipment on the fly. I think gladiators should choose the armor they're wearing, all the equipment and the ally they bring prior to the fight, and not decide what to bring after they have seen who they are facing. It is also rather inconvenient when writing tactics to specify, if he brings ally A, use tactic B, if he wears armor C use tactic D etc. I am writing this because I am currently tempted to buy/craft/quest for several different armors, weapons and allies and then just to choose 'what to bring' for each fight. I am tempted to do this because it will make it difficult for my opponent to anticipate my tactics, and might cause him to write inappropriate tactics for my characters chose configurations. It makes tactical sense, but it feels wrong to me given the spirit of the arena.
SoulLord 10-13-05, 01:45 PM	Lets see I'm facing a rogue bring my armor with fortification next week a wizard bring my spell resistance armor. As troubling as it is. those things don't come free so your foe won't have as "powerful" equipment as others. As for allies I also hate to be on the receiving end of someone who has access to flying, tracking, spellcasting, raging etc.. allies. but.. theres a limit in how many allies you can have right?
King Uther 10-13-05, 01:46 PM	But then you couldn't make good use of Handle Animal or Diplomacy. If you can't switch out, then you can never get more than two allies by any means, otherwise you'd be ineligible for the arena. Plus, if you got a cohort, you'd be forced to use him/her/it every fight. I think you should get a choice, because maybe you don't want an experience point/gold piece penalty 1 fight, but the next you need that cohort to survive.
SauroGrenom 10-13-05, 01:55 PM	but.. theres a limit in how many allies you can have right? There is a limit on the number of allies you can bring into a fight, but not on the number of allies that can be on your character sheet.
Ribking 10-13-05, 01:57 PM	Is this in response to my Crossbow question? I bring my Crossbows to every fight. I just want to know if I can draw and fire the first shot without loading first is all.
SauroGrenom 10-13-05, 02:07 PM	But then you couldn't make good use of Handle Animal or Diplomacy. If you can't switch out, then you can never get more than two allies by any means, otherwise you'd be ineligible for the arena. Plus, if you got a cohort, you'd be forced to use him/her/it every fight. I think you should get a choice, because maybe you don't want an experience point/gold piece penalty 1 fight, but the next you need that cohort to survive. You could easily get more than two allies. You can have any number of class allies granted by your classes and you could also have a mount, a cohort, diplomacy and handle animal allies. The allies options are actually rather large and diverse. As a compromise it would be reasonable to require that ally and equipment swapping conditions be listed in default tactics.
Huan 10-13-05, 02:10 PM	Is it possible to have a loaded crossbow as equipment? My character has two Light Crossbows....could I start in the arena with both of them loaded but neither in hand? Yes, that is a valid prebuff. List 'Crossbows loaded' under prebuffs so there are no problems.
Huan 10-13-05, 02:11 PM	...
Usurpator 10-13-05, 02:13 PM	But then you couldn't make good use of Handle Animal or Diplomacy. If you can't switch out, then you can never get more than two allies by any means, otherwise you'd be ineligible for the arena. Plus, if you got a cohort, you'd be forced to use him/her/it every fight. I think you should get a choice, because maybe you don't want an experience point/gold piece penalty 1 fight, but the next you need that cohort to survive. What I meant is that I suggest you write on your character sheet: "For coming fight I am bringing Ally A and wearing Armor B." You can still have as many allies and armor as you like, you can switch them before each fight, but are just not able to switch them after your see who your opponent is.
Mind Rogue 10-13-05, 02:14 PM	Lets see I'm facing a rogue bring my armor with fortification next week a wizard bring my spell resistance armor. As troubling as it is. those things don't come free so your foe won't have as "powerful" equipment as others. As for allies I also hate to be on the receiving end of someone who has access to flying, tracking, spellcasting, raging etc.. allies. but.. theres a limit in how many allies you can have right? Only to how many allies you can bring. Feasibly, you could purchase a riding dog, a warhorse, have a familiar, psicrystal, and animal companion, a leadership cohort and a thrallherd thrall. It takes time to get into and out of armor. Choosing whether to wear your fortification or your spell resistance field plate is not something you can decide 30 seconds before you face your opponent because it takes 4 minutes to put it on, 2 minutes if you have help and you want to don it hastily. While you may be allowed to prebuff with something that you can do at will, this takes a little while to do and is definitely the sort of thing that should be listed in your pre-buffs if you have more than one type of armor. Granted, if you only have one armor, it should be easily assumed which one you're wearing, but Balbanes shouldn't be able to say that he wants to leave his armor at home if he faces a spellcaster (saw him do that once). Switching what you start with in your hands isn't really nearly so big of a problem since it's only a move action to draw things. Feasibly, it must take you at least a round to walk to your starting point in the arena, and in that time you can draw two items to start with (one in each hand), assuming you wouldn't normally be holding something there anyway. Mounts and other allies are a little more iffy, since theoretically, you could have just decided 15 seconds ago to leave them at the door right before entering, and then the gates close, locking him/her/it out of the fight. At some point, the question becomes, "When am I aware who my opponent is?" It must be before the fight starts, otherwise a lot of people's tactics wouldn't make sense, even if taken in perspective of "this is what I would do when I found out the circumstances" because deciding to cast Protection from Evil on round 1 doesn't make any sense if you haven't met your foe yet to know that he's evil. However, if you're told right as you enter who your foe is, you wouldn't have the opportunity to discard allies or swap armor. You might have the chance to draw some items, or cast spells, which brings up why pre-buffs have to be 16-hour duration. The simple solution would be that you only have enough time to move to your starting point, and while you do so, you can draw some items, which doesn't leave any time for buffing. Pushing the clock farther back, if you found out one hour in advance, you wouldn't have enough time to change spells or purchase items, but you may or may not be able to swap allies, and you definitely would have the time to swap armor and buff. However, that last point conflicts with the rules: buffs would have to be set to a shorter duration (although I'm not opposed to making it be an 8-hour requirement instead of 16 hours). Even farther back and you run into serious issues with players being able to swap spells and pick up items after learning who their foe is, which should only be able to happen in the instances of challenges, where both players know long in advance who they are fighting. In summary, tactics should be writen as though you just found out and have been too busy to do much other than a couple move actions as you walk down the hallway into the arena. This would mean that which armor or allies you take when you have options would need to be declared as a prebuff, but not what you carry in your hands, such as shields, weapons, potions or scrolls. Drawing these might be part of a little flurish that you do while the announcer calls off your name. Likewise, your tactics are what you devise while walking down that hallway based on what you know of your opponent beforehand, since you've probably spent at least some time watching your foe, either in practice or matches, and your agent probably told you a few helpful tips too, such as "Word has it, he's picked up a new scroll of Fly: be careful."
King Uther 10-13-05, 02:21 PM	Honestly, I wish he didn't have that armor if that is the case. I've never worn it, except maybe in 1 fight. The character concept changed after a couple of fights, but at that point I already had the armor and the horse, neither of which I use.
Luni 10-13-05, 02:37 PM	I am a bit concerned about the 'armor' and 'ally' switchers among the gladiators. I think the intention of the character sheet is to see how your opponent will enter the arena and prepare your tactics for that. You can't switch spells on the fly, I don't see why a character should be able to choose allies and or equipment on the fly. I think gladiators should choose the armor they're wearing, all the equipment and the ally they bring prior to the fight, and not decide what to bring after they have seen who they are facing. It is also rather inconvenient when writing tactics to specify, if he brings ally A, use tactic B, if he wears armor C use tactic D etc. I am writing this because I am currently tempted to buy/craft/quest for several different armors, weapons and allies and then just to choose 'what to bring' for each fight. I am tempted to do this because it will make it difficult for my opponent to anticipate my tactics, and might cause him to write inappropriate tactics for my characters chose configurations. It makes tactical sense, but it feels wrong to me given the spirit of the arena. Well, I would like to make a comment about switching allies. Take a look at Nessa, the ECL 7 Air Mephit. Those of us who have animal allies, wouldn't want to be penalized for bringing in animals that are never going to attack a flying creature.
NiQil 10-13-05, 02:37 PM	I very much agree with Usurpator and Mind Rogue here. If you have multiple allies, or multiple pieces of equipment in the same category (armor, shields, etc), what you are taking to the fight or wearing to the fight should be listed on your sheet...probably as buffs and prefight actions. This should be done before sheets are set ready every week. I can't count the number of times I have written a tactic that was three times as long as it needed to be, just because I had to include the possibility that my opponent might or might not bring their mount with them, or might be wearing this or that armor. That seems very much against the spirit of this arena. How is it fair for someone who owns a horse and a dog to determine that bringing the horse to this fight gives him the advantage, while bringing the dog to that fight gives him the advantage, all the while his opponents have to plan for both? The person with the multiple animals is, in effect, getting to change things after the character has been set ready. I don't see this as any different than someone changing the spells they have memorized after they know who their opponent is going to be, just because they know them all. It is an unfair advantage.
NiQil 10-13-05, 02:43 PM	Well, I would like to make a comment about switching allies. Take a look at Nessa, the ECL 7 Air Mephit. Those of us who have animal allies, wouldn't want to be penalized for bringing in animals that are never going to attack a flying creature. This is exactly the reason switching should not be allowed. You can't plan for every opponent. If you want to bring your ally, great. You run the risk of having a useless ally. If the ally is useful, then it benefits you. If not, it hurts you. Just like a character without an ally. Would it be fair for someone who gets into a fight with a character who has an ally to allow them, once they see that their opponent could possibly bring a horse to the arena, to go out and purchase one after pairings have been done? Of course not. So why is it fair for someone with an ally to be able to decide after pairings to not bring it? Make the decision before you set your character ready...that's the way it should be.
Usurpator 10-13-05, 02:48 PM	Well, I would like to make a comment about switching allies. Take a look at Nessa, the ECL 7 Air Mephit. Those of us who have animal allies, wouldn't want to be penalized for bringing in animals that are never going to attack a flying creature. Well, you would be penalized for bringing in "melee weapons" against Nessa as well, or penalized for learning spells that wouldn't affect Nessa, like hold person. That's part of the arena, you make your choices of how to prepare in advance, before you meet the opponent, and you choices may or may not be beneficial.
Cerebus13 10-13-05, 02:49 PM	This is exactly the reason switching should not be allowed. You can't plan for every opponent. If you want to bring your ally, great. You run the risk of having a useless ally. If the ally is useful, then it benefits you. If not, it hurts you. Just like a character without an ally. Would it be fair for someone who gets into a fight with a character who has an ally to allow them, once they see that their opponent could possibly bring a horse to the arena, to go out and purchase one after pairings have been done? Of course not. So why is it fair for someone with an ally to be able to decide after pairings to not bring it? Make the decision before you set your character ready...that's the way it should be.Then why would anyone ever bother investing lots of points in skills like Handle Animal or Diplomacy? If you are forced to list ally choices before each battle is even assigned...you would simply recruit the most generally useful ally instead of having several and have the choice on what to bring. Otherwise you may find yourself forced to bring an ally that would be completely useless (i.e. Wolf vs. Air Mephit) and take an XP/Gold penalty simply because you have the animal listed in your pre-fight buffs. Why not require players to list weapon/ally choices in the Fights of the Week thread so that their opponents can see and adjust their tactics accordingly?
NiQil 10-13-05, 02:58 PM	Then why would anyone ever bother investing lots of points in skills like Handle Animal or Diplomacy? If you are forced to list ally choices before each battle is even assigned...you would simply recruit the most generally useful ally instead of having several and have the choice on what to bring. Otherwise you may find yourself forced to bring an ally that would be completely useless (i.e. Wolf vs. Air Mephit) and take an XP/Gold penalty simply because you have the animal listed in your pre-fight buffs. Why not require players to list weapon/ally choices in the Fights of the Week thread so that their opponents can see and adjust their tactics accordingly? Then why require wizards or clerics or druids to specify which spells they have memorized before the fight? They might end up with spells that are useless, and lose because they picked the wrong spells. They should be allowed to set them up after their opponent is picked as well, based on that logic. The whole point of random pairings is that you never know what you are going to face. When you buy an animal, you take the risk of taking that XP penalty by having the advantage over everyone who does not have one. That's the price you pay for having the ability to increase the odds you will win with that ally. If we continue to allow people to change equipment that they are bringing to the arena after pairings are done, or to change allies brought after pairings are done, I see no reason to not have all casters start to list under their spells memorized that they will be specified in tactics. It's only fair. Bottom line is, you can't have it both ways. Either designate before pairings, or let others change things after pairings as well.
Usurpator 10-13-05, 03:02 PM	Then why would anyone ever bother investing lots of points in skills like Handle Animal or Diplomacy? If you are forced to list ally choices before each battle is even assigned...you would simply recruit the most generally useful ally instead of having several and have the choice on what to bring. Otherwise you may find yourself forced to bring an ally that would be completely useless (i.e. Wolf vs. Air Mephit) and take an XP/Gold penalty simply because you have the animal listed in your pre-fight buffs. Exactly my point! Why would anyone bother memorizing Hold Person or Sleep when they know it might be completely useless against some opponents? Because it might be very useful against other opponents! And what is wrong with characters trying to simply recruit the best ally? I was seriously considering for some characters to buy: 1. A grappling horse (against those vulnerable to grappling) 2. A speedy horse (against fast opponents) 3. An attacking horse (against low AC opponents) 4. An searching horse (against invis/hiding opponents) Especially since horse (even modified ones) are fairly cheap, and the right horse for the right opponent can give you a decisive advantage. Additionally, your opponent has no idea what ally you will bring, and thus no good way to prepare for all the possibilities. Posting in a thread what you will bring is only a solution for preventing opponents from having to write alternative tactics, never for the tactical advantage. Additionally, posting it in the Fight of the Weeks thread would slow things down considerably. "Oh, a mage with shocking grasp, well, then I am going to wear my mundane crystal breastplate". "Oh, a lycanthrope, then I better bring my silver bullets and leave my regular ones, since bringing all of my bullets might weigh me down too much." I think that kind of choices are against the spirit of the arena fights.
TelinArtho 10-13-05, 03:09 PM	The thing is, bringing an ally or not is a much different decision than deciding on a piece of armor or a particular piece of equipment. Why? Because of the xp/gp penalty. I am fine with requiring the equipment be specified ahead of time. Of course, if this happens, I have a feeling many will bring in an excess and simply drop what they don't want (or not even bother if they are not reduced in speed or encumbrance). Allies however, are a completely separate decision. I am fine with those who bring an ally to specify that ally publicly before tactics are sent, but after pairings are set. I am fine as well with specifying a particular ally is staying at home on a given week, but only if the xp/gp penalty is removed. Otherwise, why would anyone get a useful ally (like a horse) if they can't decide not to use it? People who use allies are penalized in more ways than one. 1) If it is a handled animal, they must spend plenty of time training (and sometimes money) 2) If it is a diplomatic ally, they had to go on a miniquest, and likely have to equip the ally with their own equipment 3) They spend skill points in areas that are not as likely to be used every fight (in the instances where they don't want to bring an ally, for instance). In other words, they have to pay for more equipment, often are using less-than-perfect creatures for the fight and they have to pay a penalty on their own gold and xp while their opponents get a boost. I, personally, feel the system is fine (and that comes from both perspectives of using allies and not).
SoulLord 10-13-05, 03:11 PM	I'm probably biased as 1.- I dont have allies, or the like 2.- Use a wizard who must memorize spells in advance. But still I have to agree That they should be treated the same way as we treat spells to be fair. As there are many spells that are useless against certain oponents
Cerebus13 10-13-05, 03:24 PM	TelinArtho is completely correct. Memorizing the wrong spell does not cost you XP or Gold. Bringing an ally to the arena (that is not class specific) does cost you something. Poorly chosen spells for your memorization list can be augmented with equipment/scrolls/potions. The same can be said for less than useful equipment, it can be offset by a well chosen spell list or by even more equipment. This can all be done with little or no penalty to your character, you may simply suffer some encumbrance penalties for carrying too many axes...but we are also allowed to drop stuff in the arena so that isn't even a big deal. Allies are not always useful to a gladiator, so having the option to leave them at home to save yourself the up to 25% penalty to Gold and XP is nice. This way you can come into a battle each week and not lose up to a quarter of your winnings because your ally is rendered useless by a simple tactic on your opponents part (fly potion?). ... On another tangent...why are we changing the rules to the CoCo every bloody week? It would be nice to have a standard set of rules in place so we don't have to be afraid to spend credits on an advanced character...only to have them nerfed by a rules change 2 weeks later.
TelinArtho 10-13-05, 03:25 PM	I imagine this will get lost in the current discussion, but a quick question about a feat: FLYBY ATTACK [GENERAL] Prerequisite: Fly speed. Benefit: When flying, the creature can take a move action (including a dive) and another standard action at any point during the move. The creature cannot take a second move action during a round when it makes a flyby attack. Normal: Without this feat, the creature takes a standard action either before or after its move. I've always thought that you don't provoke an AoO from the creature you are attacking with this feat, however it doesn't specify that. The equivalent feats for mounted combat (ride-by-attack) and regular combat (spring attack), both specify that they don't provoke from the creature they are attacking. Is this just a deficiency of the SRD or is it FAQed somewhere? /d
SoulLord 10-13-05, 03:28 PM	I see TellinArtho's Concerns how about a compromise? 1.-Have the allies you choose to bring to the arena listed in your tactics for the week. 2.-after pairings you can decide to leave all them at home as to not incurr in the xp/gold penalty. (it's all or nothing) This prevents a bit the I choose my best ally for the situation while still giving flexibility in case your ally is ill suited for the task.
Cerebus13 10-13-05, 03:28 PM	Is this just a deficiency of the SRD or is it FAQed somewhere?Check out Improved Flyby Attack. They made it into 2 seperate feats instead.
NiQil 10-13-05, 03:30 PM	TelinArtho is completely correct. Memorizing the wrong spell does not cost you XP or Gold. Bringing an ally to the arena (that is not class specific) does cost you something. Poorly chosen spells for your memorization list can be augmented with equipment/scrolls/potions. The same can be said for less than useful equipment, it can be offset by a well chosen spell list or by even more equipment. This can all be done with little or no penalty to your character, you may simply suffer some encumbrance penalties for carrying too many axes...but we are also allowed to drop stuff in the arena so that isn't even a big deal. Allies are not always useful to a gladiator, so having the option to leave them at home to save yourself the up to 25% penalty to Gold and XP is nice. This way you can come into a battle each week and not lose up to a quarter of your winnings because your ally is rendered useless by a simple tactic on your opponents part (fly potion?). ... On another tangent...why are we changing the rules to the CoCo every bloody week? It would be nice to have a standard set of rules in place so we don't have to be afraid to spend credits on an advanced character...only to have them nerfed by a rules change 2 weeks later. Well, in this instance, it is because the rules are not being applied uniformly. Let me give you a hypothetical. If a wizard got penalties or bonuses for having too many spells in his book (for instance, if we were to designate a limit on the amount of spells a wizard can have in his book at any given level), would you then allow wizards to change the spells they had memorized from their book after pairings?
TelinArtho 10-13-05, 03:37 PM	Check out Improved Flyby Attack. They made it into 2 seperate feats instead. Where's that one? I don't see it in any of the SRD docs I have.
Luni 10-13-05, 03:41 PM	Where's that one? I don't see it in any of the SRD docs I have. Epic Levels SRD.
Cerebus13 10-13-05, 03:47 PM	Where's that one? I don't see it in any of the SRD docs I have.Here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedFlybyAttack) It's listed in the Monster Feats section so may not be be apparent depending on your SRD document. ... Well, in this instance, it is because the rules are not being applied uniformly. Let me give you a hypothetical. If a wizard got penalties or bonuses for having too many spells in his book (for instance, if we were to designate a limit on the amount of spells a wizard can have in his book at any given level), would you then allow wizards to change the spells they had memorized from their book after pairings?Um, what would be the point of that? Penalties exist on non-class allies because they can have a huge impact on battles, and because they are not integrated into the SRD's class balance. A Wizard's spell book is a base class feature...and the CoCo (edit) tries to avoid penalties on base class features. And sadly, the rules are not applied uniformly in tons of places in the Arena. For example: the Psionic Item price scaling house rule. Why can a Wizard purchase an increased CL scroll (and thus increased damage/effects) with only a linear price progression...when a Psionic character is forced to into a exponential price progression with augmented stones/tattoos?
Sindorin 10-13-05, 03:54 PM	A Wizard's spell book is a base class feature...and the CoCo has no penalties on base class features. Heh, the CoCo does too have penalties on base class features - it's called the 1/3 rule. :P
Cerebus13 10-13-05, 03:58 PM	Heh, the CoCo does too have penalties on base class features - it's called the 1/3 rule. :PWell it technically has a penalty to class feature allies as well...because Thrallherd and Thaumaturgist's class allies apply to the maximum amount of allies you are allowed to bring into the arena. I guess I'm too used to having the 1/3rd rule around.
TelinArtho 10-13-05, 04:23 PM	Here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedFlybyAttack) It's listed in the Monster Feats section so may not be be apparent depending on your SRD document. ... Thanks - that also shows me the feats that I'll be looking for later with Aquin... heh heh heh...
Iced 10-13-05, 04:50 PM	Then why require wizards or clerics or druids to specify which spells they have memorized before the fight? They might end up with spells that are useless, and lose because they picked the wrong spells. They should be allowed to set them up after their opponent is picked as well, based on that logic. The whole point of random pairings is that you never know what you are going to face. When you buy an animal, you take the risk of taking that XP penalty by having the advantage over everyone who does not have one. That's the price you pay for having the ability to increase the odds you will win with that ally. If we continue to allow people to change equipment that they are bringing to the arena after pairings are done, or to change allies brought after pairings are done, I see no reason to not have all casters start to list under their spells memorized that they will be specified in tactics. It's only fair. Bottom line is, you can't have it both ways. Either designate before pairings, or let others change things after pairings as well. Prepared spellcasters like wizards, clerics, and druids are prepared spellcasters for a reason. The main difference between the sorcerer and the wizard (aside from key score, feats, etc) is that the sorcerer has the ability to use the spells that would most benefit him in any given situation. Allow a wizard to change his spells before the fight and you take away any ghost of a viable reason to play a sorcerer. You are in effect giving the (only) major advantage that the sorcerer has over the wizard to the wizard.
MysticMonk2005 10-13-05, 04:57 PM	I always kinda imagined pairings being posted on a huge billboard by the entrance to the arena, and boys running around the city handing out pamphlets with pairings on them. Then paired characters would begin a mad scramble to learn what they could of thier opponent, pouring over old fights records and stuff. Unless your character has like an 18 int and has put points in Knowlege: CoCo Gladiators, I dont see you memorizeing every detail of every person in your league that u can just pop up the detailed tactics that are used in the minuet before u step out into the arena. I would assume there would be maybe somesort of city wide law forbiding gladiators from purchasing equipment after pairings have been announced. Besides from what I can tell its just the whining of people who are too lazy to write the tactics they need and want the rules changed for them to accodomate this. And I do belive that 1/3 spells/pp is way too much. Wizards lost just fine when they could blow thier entire arsenal if they wanted. I just see the 1/3 rule as enforcing a wizard = scroll user philosophy. Emad with his maxed stat barely had enough PP to kill a fly. Edit: Woo my first rant since i've returned! Edit2: Thanks for fixing me up Cat.
NiQil 10-13-05, 05:00 PM	I just had to share this because it amuses me.... With the new Psi Consortium guild, every time I see Guildmaster (PSI), my mind sees it as CSI at first glance, and I get this image of Gil Grissom standing at the front of the guild headquarters trying to train bugs to be psions LOL
SoulLord 10-13-05, 05:14 PM	Prepared spellcasters like wizards, clerics, and druids are prepared spellcasters for a reason. The main difference between the sorcerer and the wizard (aside from key score, feats, etc) is that the sorcerer has the ability to use the spells that would most benefit him in any given situation. Allow a wizard to change his spells before the fight and you take away any ghost of a viable reason to play a sorcerer. You are in effect giving the (only) major advantage that the sorcerer has over the wizard to the wizard. They also have a Higher number of spells but that's beside the point. Going back to it. 1.- Is it balanced to be able to choose from an unlimited number of allies after pairings are done? Yes No Why?
Usurpator 10-13-05, 05:21 PM	I brought up the point because lately I am seeing most of my gladiators taking ranks in Handle Animal and buying whistles (even those with negative Cha modifier) and planning to buy/quest for heaps of allies, because I think it the benefits of having many allies far outweigh the (neglible) costs. Especially because they are optional, they bring you a decisive advantage only if you need them, and don't cost you anything when they're not needed. I would be stupid not to create an advantage for almost no cost.... Additionally, for some Gladiators I have been looking at crafting multiple sets of armor and more weapons than they can carry, just to pick the right combination for a fight. If I fight opponent A, I will choose mount B and outfit him with armor C, etc. Armor advantages may be minor compared to ally advantages, but if my characters can Craft, they can just sell the stuff for the same price they made it, so it wouldn't cost them anything....
TelinArtho 10-13-05, 05:33 PM	1.- Is it balanced to be able to choose from an unlimited number of allies after pairings are done? Yes No Why? Yes - because of the penalty/bonus associated with the character/opponent. If I bring an ally in - I am paying more for that ally (between the cost of getting the ally and equiping it) than I would probably use in expended items. If you bring in an ally that is a 25% penalty and you lose an ECL3 fight - that's 225gp. In addition, if it is an ally you didn't purchase, you spent a fair number of skill points in handle animal - and then spent several weeks training (which either cost you free activities or money) or a fair number of skill points in diplomacy (in which case you've probably bought some equipment). Additionally, for some Gladiators I have been looking at crafting multiple sets of armor and more weapons than they can carry, just to pick the right combination for a fight. The problem I see with this argument is the users of scrolls. Scrolls typically are considered weightless - so no one has a problem with a character carrying thousands of them. However, when someone has 2 sets of armor - this is a problem? Come on - it is more difficult to write tactics against someone who has spent every dime on crafting scrolls for every situation than it is against someone who chooses a particular piece of armor. In the case of weapons, I think this is even less valid. Aquin - as an example - carries a trident, 4 short swords, a light mace, a sickle, 2 light crossbows, and 8 javelins. He carries a lot of weapons, in the future - he will carry more. However, by the rules - this is allowed - because there are no "body slots" for places you can put a weapon. In fact, if something came in that limited the number of weapons you could carry (beyond regular encumbrance), I suspect that Aquin would just become somewhat less useful than he already is. And tell me, what benefit does he gain from having all these weapons against a character who is invisible and strikes at him with a blindness spell? Essentially, what I'm saying is the same as MysticMonk - just because it forces you to write complex tactics doesn't mean its unfair. The CoCo is all about coming up with innovative things in tough circumstances - deal with it. /d
Maraxus 10-13-05, 05:38 PM	Yes, I pointed at this inconsistency, too, when I suddenly heard that it was not allowed to exchance equipment with team members before the fight. I think not being able to swich equipment before the fight would be a good rule, if you want consistency. It is like you get to know, who you are fighting just in the moment you enter the arena. That you can prepare tatics, go through his past fights and double-check all your opponents spells and abilities is a tribute to the pitlording-system. That this also enforces metagaming (When I see him casting a spell with a duration in rounds - that can only be sleep - take full cover. No, I don't have any ranks in spellcraft or know. arcana,,,) is an effect of the Arena-setting. This is no P&P- roleplaying, we are testing character conceps from a mechanicle point of view first (... and roleplay on a close second ;)) With the animals: Right and I thought about making something like that, too. But you should not be forced to decide whether to bring a mount along before you know your opponent. If you don't need them and don't want to use them, they should really cost nothing. One could rule that you need to choose a set of creatures to bring to the arena before the day and then you can decide to leave them in your changing cubicle right before the fight, so nobody can prepare one kind of creature for every kind of opponent.
TelinArtho 10-13-05, 05:49 PM	Okay so a character wants to build a stable of horses that will be effective against every opponent. A Light Warhorse has 2 feats - let's say he buys 3 custom and 1 standard: The running horse (standard) (150gp) The Grappling horse (350gp) (Improved Grapple and Weapon Focus (hoof)) The Attacking horse (350gp) (Weapon Focus (hoof) and Reckless Offense) The Smelling Horse (350gp) (Skill Focus (Survival) and Track) As a third level character, I just spent 1200gp on this equipment out of my 3k to start. In addition, I am effectively maxed out at 2150gp for a single fight at the beginning, because I can't bring all of the horses in at once at ECL3. Well, what about later on? Well, most of the horses are going to become obsolete - replaced with Griffons maybe? (7kgp, +1k per custom feat) Someone could quest for each of these, but therein lies other issues for the character: 1. Questing requires the handle animal bonus of the appropriate amount. 2. You have to pay credits for the switched feats. 3. You have to train the horses - which will take a minimum of 2 weeks (effectively - Down and Attack - more for other tricks), 6 if you want to ride it. (or you could pay for it at 50gp/trick - but still have to wait the number of weeks).
Usurpator 10-13-05, 05:50 PM	Yes - because of the penalty/bonus associated with the character/opponent. If I bring an ally in - I am paying more for that ally (between the cost of getting the ally and equiping it) than I would probably use in expended items. If you bring in an ally that is a 25% penalty and you lose an ECL3 fight - that's 225gp. This simply isn't true. Relative power of a gladiator by equipment is measured by the amount of gold he makes per XP. If allies were only deducted from the gp. reward and not from the XP reward, this would be true. Now the only net effect is that bringing in allies makes you level slower, it certainly does not cost you more gold in itself. Having a potion of Flying (a 750 gp.) and a uncounterable Summon Monster III (375 gp.) for free every fight (but only when you need it) at ECL 6 by questing for a Dire Bat mount is something no character of mine would want to pass up. It's just too good. But we'll see what happens when my characters go crazy on allies, all I can say is that I gave fair warning first. ;)
DMing 10-13-05, 05:50 PM	hey how is every one, two questions, one how can you start quets or campaigns also how do i know that my character is in or going to be a fight.
TelinArtho 10-13-05, 05:55 PM	@DMing - you can check the rules thread for quests and campaigns. Unfortunately, as far as I know, all of the campaigns are full at this time - so there's nothing you can really do there, at the moment. Quests are easy. Have your character decide to go on a quest for something. Petition a particular questlord (listed in the characters thread) to run it, or just post here that you are looking for one. Quests are 1 credit/week (and they last 3 weeks).
King Uther 10-13-05, 05:57 PM	I'm beginning to draft a story involving an Eastern kingdom. It is a Japanese-esque nation. Eventually it will evolve into a campaign. Anyone interested in joining in?
NiQil 10-13-05, 05:59 PM	This simply isn't true. Relative power of a gladiator by equipment is measured by the amount of gold he makes per XP. If allies were only deducted from the gp. reward and not from the XP reward, this would be true. Now the only net effect is that bringing in allies makes you level slower, it certainly does not cost you more gold in itself. Having a potion of Flying (a 750 gp.) and a uncounterable Summon Monster III (375 gp.) for free every fight (but only when you need it) at ECL 6 by questing for a Dire Bat mount is something no character of mine would want to pass up. It's just too good. But we'll see what happens when my characters go crazy on allies, all I can say is that I gave fair warning first. ;) No kidding....I suddenly see my paladin with herds of horses as she levels, especially since at higher levels, paladin mounts can influence other animals of the same species.
Usurpator 10-13-05, 05:59 PM	The running horse (standard) (150gp) Actually my newest gladiator, Flamehair, has bought a running horse: It has Wild Talent and Speed of Thought. Another running/charging version would be: Elite Light Warhorse with Run and Fleet of Foot. And I also have a (and have seen) the Stayer Horse: Endurance and Diehard. I can only say that mounts/allies were instrumental in like 7 of the 14 battles I have won in CoCo.
TelinArtho 10-13-05, 06:00 PM	This simply isn't true. Relative power of a gladiator by equipment is measured by the amount of gold he makes per XP. If allies were only deducted from the gp. reward and not from the XP reward, this would be true. Now the only net effect is that bringing in allies makes you level slower, it certainly does not cost you more gold in itself. I don't know that I necessarily agree. Let's take a 3rd level character with a light warhorse (25% penalty) as a for instance: Winning a fight he gains 675xp/gp. Losing a fight he gains 225xp/gp. If he loses a fight, and he uses one 2nd level potion - he's just lost money for the fight. Even if he wins, using a 2nd level potion cuts his net from 675 to 375. A typical buffing sequence is sometimes like this: Potion of Mage Armor (50gp) Potion of Shield of Faith (50gp) Tattoo of Force Screen (100gp) Or, if they brought armor, but is up against an invisible opponent: Potion of Shield of Faith (50gp) Tattoo of Force Screen (100gp) Tattoo of Synesthete (100gp)
NiQil 10-13-05, 06:01 PM	I'm beginning to draft a story involving an Eastern kingdom. It is a Japanese-esque nation. Eventually it will evolve into a campaign. Anyone interested in joining in? Depending on the ECL, I have a monk that could be interested...or maybe my barbarian/rogue/soon to be assassin...
Usurpator 10-13-05, 06:01 PM	No kidding....I suddenly see my paladin with herds of horses as she levels, especially since at higher levels, paladin mounts can influence other animals of the same species. Oh, one other question I just thought of: can you sell allies you have quested for. You know, tame the Hippogriff and then make a tidy profit?
NiQil 10-13-05, 06:05 PM	I don't know that I necessarily agree. Let's take a 3rd level character with a light warhorse (25% penalty) as a for instance: Winning a fight he gains 675xp/gp. Losing a fight he gains 225xp/gp. If he loses a fight, and he uses one 2nd level potion - he's just lost money for the fight. Even if he wins, using a 2nd level potion cuts his net from 675 to 375. A typical buffing sequence is sometimes like this: Potion of Mage Armor (50gp) Potion of Shield of Faith (50gp) Tattoo of Force Screen (100gp) Or, if they brought armor, but is up against an invisible opponent: Potion of Shield of Faith (50gp) Tattoo of Force Screen (100gp) Tattoo of Synesthete (100gp) The point Usurpator was trying to make is that, over the time it takes a character to reach the necessary experience to reach 4th level, it will just take the person with an ally slightly longer. They are not losing any money in proportion to the xp they are gaining...they are just gaining both at a slower rate. You are still going to get 1gp for every xp you earn (barring very rare circumstances), you will just get them at a slower rate than you would without the ally. So all that is really happening with an ally is the character progresses towards that next level at a slightly lower rate of speed, in exchange for having a better chance to amass a better won/loss record and power rating.
NiQil 10-13-05, 06:07 PM	Oh, one other question I just thought of: can you sell allies you have quested for. You know, tame the Hippogriff and then make a tidy profit? You can certainly sell them....would be at the same 1/2 market value of anything else....but since you got them for free as a part of a quest/miniquest, you would still be making money, even if they are untrained.
Usurpator 10-13-05, 06:21 PM	Or, if they brought armor, but is up against an invisible opponent: Potion of Shield of Faith (50gp) Tattoo of Force Screen (100gp) Tattoo of Synesthete (100gp) This is partially the point I was trying to make. Instead of your buffing against an invisible opponent, just bring you Sniffing Light Warhorse for 250 gp. It won't be 'used' up that fight, but you can use it again next fight. And because you level slower, you get greater benefit from investing in stuff that remains, like allies, as opposed to investing in expendables. You can use a potion of Enlarge Person for aiding you in a Grapple, or buy a Grappling horse. The potion will be used up, the Grappling horse will remain. If you really don't need it anymore, you can always sell it for half price. EDIT: Telin, it's true that if you use a lot of expendables each fight, bringing allies will become more of a liability.
SoulLord 10-13-05, 06:29 PM	Let's compare it to a summon monster spell light warhorse cr 1 for a 3rd lvl gladiator 25% xp gp penalty so Regular earnings if won / lost | 900 / 300 earnings with Horse 675 / 225 the equivalent would be an extended summon monster I scroll 150 gp for cr 1/2 or an extended summon monster II scroll 375 gp (light horse is cr1) Regular earnings if won / lost | 900 / 300 earnings after using scroll 1 750 / 150 earnings after using scroll 2 525 / -75
Tellish_of_Ket 10-13-05, 07:35 PM	Actually my newest gladiator, Flamehair, has bought a running horse: It has Wild Talent and Speed of Thought. Another running/charging version would be: Elite Light Warhorse with Run and Fleet of Foot. And I also have a (and have seen) the Stayer Horse: Endurance and Diehard. I can only say that mounts/allies were instrumental in like 7 of the 14 battles I have won in CoCo. Light horse with speed of though, horseshoes of speed for a nice speed of 100'. Push your mount, and whammo, 110'. With that kind of speed you wouldn't need fleet of foot. You could easily double move to the other end of the arena and with a reach weapon, hit your opponent if he starts anywhere near the front of his box. If he/she starts either to the right or left, there is nowhere they can start to avoid a first round double-move, guisarme trip and slam. -ToK
Book5 10-13-05, 10:03 PM	@Anyone - Is there an adjustment to the SRD grapple rulings regarding multi-attack? Attack Your Opponent: You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a –4 penalty on such attacks. You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons. Unless I read that wrong - that means you cannot use multi-attack in a grapple. You can of course attack multiple times based off of BAB When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses. But not claw/claw/bite - does anyone have a refrence that contradicts that? The rules don't say much about how monsters conduct grappling combat. It's easiest, however, to allow a monster one grappling attack per natural weapon it has, provided that the natural weapon can hold on to the target in some fashion. The monster uses its listed grapple bonus when attacking with a primary natural weapon (or weapons) and its listed grapple bonus -5 for any secondary natural weapons. If the monster's grapple attack deals damage to a foe, the damage is lethal (unless the monster takes a -4 penalty to deal nonlethal damage) and equal to the damage rating for the natural weapon. For example, a troll grappling with a claw has a grapple bonus of +14 and deals 1d6+6 point of damage with the attack. Does this apply to say... lizard folk? Personally I would rather not, have never, and dont think this "rules of the game" bit does anything but contradict an explicit rules statment that you cant make a "two-weapon attack" a "multi-attack" is in all other ways treated the same as "two-weapon." Why is grapple different. My theory ... "Monster" = NPC. And the reason they suggest letting that happen with monsters is because monsters are not players. AND In regards to this allies thing, and a related note. I as a pitlord can approve edits if they are PMed to me in a timely fashion - things like last minute purchases? or a shift of a skill point or two? For example - The Undershadow.. Finduilas has spent less than 100 gold in his character.. am I required to say no to anything he wants to buy before the fight with all that cash he has lying around? I'll double check on my own, but you dont have to pay an xp penalty for allies that come as class/feat features do you? A cohort, familar, animal companion, or special mount?
King Uther 10-13-05, 10:36 PM	Well, as far as last minute purchases, you cannot okay that. Not without his opponent's permission. If they and you agree, then a change can be made.
Book5 10-13-05, 10:48 PM	- After a little review - 1. You cannot purchase equipment after the matches are posted. 2. You character should appeare in the arena exactly as he was at time of posting. - all equipment - all allies - Memorized and pre-buffed as per description 3. TechnicallyYou cant make any changes to this. The reason for this: In the RP mentality all the gladiators are fighting one after the other or even three ring circus style - conceptually.. we are standing on a platform. With our "setup for the week" and then we get sent to the arena... Imeadiatly. In statistics mentality your character should be configured - allies and all - to be "the best prepared he can be" without any fore knowledge of your opponent. Now, I would not be adverse to coming up with a "last minute store" or a "Arena Stables" concept that allows you to place a certain number of allies into "available." I would also think that the ability to buy a last minute cure potion, or even a last minute elemental resistance fire potion. Nothing game breaking, but if such a "store" did exist the inventory should be carefully selected. But, I compleatly agree that stance - Play it as its Posted. Currently, I only have one problem - SauroGenom listed the wrong equipment on his sheet. Basically he has a piece of equipment that he cant use. He was mistaken in selecting this item. Can I adjust the sheet for an obvious oversight? Or is SauroGenom stuck with a bad player decision that the character would have never made?
Book5 10-13-05, 10:51 PM	Well, as far as last minute purchases, you cannot okay that. Not without his opponent's permission. If they and you agree, then a change can be made. :rofl: so you can "go to the store together?" :rofl: :weep: but seriously now - thats a pretty standard "well if you can I can, and if I cant you cant" duel mentality.
TelinArtho 10-13-05, 11:58 PM	The point Usurpator was trying to make is that, over the time it takes a character to reach the necessary experience to reach 4th level, it will just take the person with an ally slightly longer. They are not losing any money in proportion to the xp they are gaining...they are just gaining both at a slower rate. You are still going to get 1gp for every xp you earn (barring very rare circumstances), you will just get them at a slower rate than you would without the ally. So all that is really happening with an ally is the character progresses towards that next level at a slightly lower rate of speed, in exchange for having a better chance to amass a better won/loss record and power rating. Apparently I didn't explain my thought process far enough: Okay you have a gladiator who, after 3 fights without an ally, has 3 wins. He has earned 900xp/900gp per fight for a grand total of 2700gp. In that time, he used 500gp per fight, knocking his total winnings down to 1200gp. One week earlier, another gladiator started who, after 4 fights with his light warhorse, has 4 wins. He has earned 675/675 per fight for a grand total of 2700gp. In that time he used 450gp per fight, knocking his total winnings down to 900gp. That's the very best type of scenario. With a few losses - the guy with the mount is MUCH worse off.
NiQil 10-14-05, 12:26 AM	Apparently I didn't explain my thought process far enough: Okay you have a gladiator who, after 3 fights without an ally, has 3 wins. He has earned 900xp/900gp per fight for a grand total of 2700gp. In that time, he used 500gp per fight, knocking his total winnings down to 1200gp. One week earlier, another gladiator started who, after 4 fights with his light warhorse, has 4 wins. He has earned 675/675 per fight for a grand total of 2700gp. In that time he used 450gp per fight, knocking his total winnings down to 900gp. That's the very best type of scenario. With a few losses - the guy with the mount is MUCH worse off. All you've really done there is restated what I said. The guy with the cohort will progress at a slower rate. No one is disputing that. But now, using your example....put those two gladiators head-to-head. Who normally has the better odds of winning...the guy with the cohort or the one without? I think most would say the guy with the cohort. And *that is why the penalties are there....you are paying for that better chance at winning. But all of that is beside the point. The point is, the pairings are supposed to be random (which they are), and they are supposed to simulate a random encounter in a campaign, in that you may not always have the exact equipment for the job. To give one half of the equation the ability to change the equipment they are bringing after they see who they are fighting and what their strengths and weaknesses are (and I am including cohorts as equipment here, since it is easier to include everything under the same heading) is unfair. The wizard and his spell book is a similar example. No one here would allow a wizard to go and change the spells he has memorized after pairings have been announced. No one would let the other half include a last minute purchase after pairings when that purchase would most likely be something that would win them the fight. Why should it be allowed for someone to make that choice with regard to a cohort, or the armor they wear, or the weapons they are bringing? If they bring *all of their equipment to the arena, and choose once the fight starts, I have no problems with that whatsoever. But otherwise, I feel strongly that to not designate on the sheets what equipment and/or allies are being used that week gives an unfair advantage. Let me ask you this....if there were no penalties to gold and xp for purchased allies like horses and dogs......would you still allow them to be changed after pairings?
Book5 10-14-05, 12:38 AM	I dont know where this goes, but I think it belongs on the council thread not the prison, and "anything goes" here !..! @Book5 - If you look at the first linked fight - you'll see that Sinnoch started as a 5th level character. He has also been on campaign - so his stats may not match exactly with the "norms" of the arena. I suggest if you want to do violations, pick characters who are both active and not currently on campaign or quests. Active can be determined by looking at the title of the post. If it says Ready and the upcoming Wednesday - feel free. If the date is more than a couple of weeks though - I'd probably not bother checking it. Just a thought. As I understand the streamline initiative is still active, and you havent audited my char, I thought I did it right the first time, I'll triple verify the next time I level, ;) but I feel like making an easy tenth of a point of myself. Besides, you usually make the same mistakes at the same points when you work your own character sheet over. In my experience. I will restate my question, and I'll pop it on over to the council. I get the feeling I'm talkin too much in the prison. Shouldnt all credit expenditures be listed on the sheet, all cash etc in the expenditures section - I like the hyperlinks to the fights btw. Easy enough to do with every batch loss, batch gain, and you can hyper link the blackmarket or a guild for purchases, and credit expenditures. Tan the Victorious warrior decided to make a pester out of himself and just poke around the arena this week, what with all the wackyness over at the Guild (TOA) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=500767) he needed to clear his head. He found himself walking down a strange hallway and came across a rather strange man. Who the hell are you? and why do you look so familiar? I am Book5, I am a pit lord. Don't worry about the things you cannot understand little fellow.. would you like to join me as I pitlord this next battle? Tan thought for a second, and decided that this was a rare opportunity! To watch an arena battle from the pit lord's box! Alright ya wierdo, but I still wanna know where I know you from. And that is how Tan, traveller from the land of Sty, found himself doing commentary for Book5's pit fights.
MysticMonk2005 10-14-05, 12:41 AM	Personaly Im proud of the fact that I win using no expendible items(arrows excluded). I enjoy relying on my build and not what tattoo, potion, scroll, ext. that I can buy to win the match for me. Which technicly means that win or loose, I'm going to be richer then just about any other gladiator at my xp level. I'm looking at these earings figures an it just makes me laugh. I don't have a single character who needs to worry about what ally to bring or what items to bring, as I only buy the essentials. Granted I'm no where close to winning all my fights, and a small reason I dont use pots, ext is cause I'm way too lazy to figure out what kinda buffs and steps to go through to effectivly use them. But I realy feel like your fussing about nothing. Let people bring what they want from thier inventory. Shouldn't you want the best challenge to test your build? Let me ask you this....if there were no penalties to gold and xp for purchased allies like horses and dogs......would you still allow them to be changed after pairings? You betcha! (Infact I would be quite happy if there were no gp/xp penalties :D)
SauroGrenom 10-14-05, 01:01 AM	Currently, I only have one problem - SauroGenom listed the wrong equipment on his sheet. Basically he has a piece of equipment that he cant use. He was mistaken in selecting this item. Can I adjust the sheet for an obvious oversight? Or is SauroGenom stuck with a bad player decision that the character would have never made? This is entirely your call. In Rebreg's fight last week, Niqil's character had mistakenly purchased scrolls of Shillelagh, but they were mostly useless (you cannot cast from the scroll while you're holding the staff). So he requested and the Pitlord granted that they be changed to Oils of Shillelagh. In that case the pitlord permitted the swap, but it likely had little to no effect upon the outcome of the fight. The swap of an unusable psistone of force shield for a more expensive tattoo with lower manifester level is not likely to unbalance things. But such a swap is technically not allowed in the rules. I leave the decision to you. If the swap is not permitted, then Kracknol will spend less money on what looks like it will be a loosing fight.
Book5 10-14-05, 01:47 AM	In this case My Call is The Undershadow's call .. so call him. In this case.. I'm willing to let the both of you go to the store.. but if Undershadow says no, then I will proceed with option A.
The Undershadow 10-14-05, 01:54 AM	Book5 I think you have me confused with Usurpator. I'm in the other fight you are Pitlording. Now I don't care if Sauro changes a few things, but I don't see how my opinion matters.
Usurpator 10-14-05, 02:41 AM	Light horse with speed of though, horseshoes of speed for a nice speed of 100'. Push your mount, and whammo, 110'. With that kind of speed you wouldn't need fleet of foot. You could easily double move to the other end of the arena and with a reach weapon, hit your opponent if he starts anywhere near the front of his box. If he/she starts either to the right or left, there is nowhere they can start to avoid a first round double-move, guisarme trip and slam. -ToK On the contrary, the big advantage of Fleet of Foot is that you can run and charge with an angle. I intend to use it together with the options you mentioned. 550 ft. distance covered when running or 220 ft. when charging + 90 degree angle, meaning you can reach base any opponent in the first turn.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-14-05, 02:56 AM	On the contrary, the big advantage of Fleet of Foot is that you can run and charge with an angle. I intend to use it together with the options you mentioned. 550 ft. distance covered when running or 220 ft. when charging + 90 degree angle, meaning you can reach base any opponent in the first turn. But the feats run and fleet of foot combo doesn't give you a 110' move. [60' base, +30 shoes, +10 push= 100'] Ok, so it's only ten less. A run would mean 500' with a 90° change in movement. Hmmm....very powerful indeed, i see where you are going with this. Ok, i just took some time to plot all the possible movements and angles on the arena map. Looks good, but there is a whole...and i know it. muwhaha. So if i see a build like that facing me, i'll be sure to be in that "pocket". Remember, you are a large creature, and no squeezing aloud when running and you only get to make one angle change. -ToK
Luni 10-14-05, 03:12 AM	I'm just going to go buy a horse with Wild Talent and Up the walls.
Caterane 10-14-05, 03:59 AM	It's a good thing that certain topics come up on the table again once in a while. The CoCo undergoes changes and things that were ok in the past might not be good now. Still, free allies and equipment choice is a good idea. In a real campaign, a character normally brings all allies along. If a fight starts, he can easily opt to have some stay back and not participate in that fight. The same thing happens in the arena. Although defining which ally you want to bring in would be easy to write down, this is the reason for we not doing it. Equipment is a bit of a different matter. As with allies, a character is assumed to carry all his stuff with him, and either drop what he doesn't need at the beginning of the fight, or have the 'exotic equipment' tied to a cart. Except for surprise attacks from a hidden enemy, a character has enough time to prepare for the battle accordingly, ie dispose of what he doesn't need. That is much different from memorizing spells which you have to do at the beginning of the day. The only exception might be armor which takes longer to get off. But here, I can bring the main argument why things are as they are in the coco: it's easier. Still, I am aware of the implications here. An adventurer might and he might as well not know what he will be facing. Whatever we do, there are arguments for and against that. I want to adress allies again. If that ally switching is a problem for you - and I agree that 'a horse for every situation' is a tendency I don't want to see either - we can restrict allies to a certain number. Perhaps 2x your maxCA would be a good place to start. Oh and we should probably prohibit customized animals from taking psionic feats.
Guildmaster (WAR) 10-14-05, 04:19 AM	Note: the Warfare Alliance is accepting applications. Please send your list of applicants by PM to this account. Members will be decided shortly before guilds become fully operational.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-14-05, 04:20 AM	Oh and we should probably prohibit customized animals from taking psionic feats. Amen...no psionic feats for customized pets. -ToK
Vathelokai 10-14-05, 05:06 AM	Amen...no psionic feats for customized pets. -ToK How about only phrenic creatures can take psionic feats. I figure, if someone wants to pay the price of aquiring a phrenic warhorse, let them.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-14-05, 05:22 AM	How about only phrenic creatures can take psionic feats. I figure, if someone wants to pay the price of aquiring a phrenic warhorse, let them. So, then would a phrenic familiar still benefit from the HD-dependant psi-like abilities? (ie. a 10th level wizard with a phrenic familiar that has all the psi-like abilities up to intellect fortress and psychic crush? -ToK
Vathelokai 10-14-05, 05:26 AM	So, then would a phrenic familiar still benefit from the HD-dependant psi-like abilities? (ie. a 10th level wizard with a phrenic familiar that has all the psi-like abilities up to intellect fortress and psychic crush? -ToK I was under the impression that familiars were always base creatures; no advanced, elite, or templated variants.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-14-05, 05:35 AM	I was under the impression that familiars were always base creatures; no advanced, elite, or templated variants. Ah, yes...you are correct. My bad. An ally gained via diplomacy though, such as an advanced phrenic mephit (HD 5) only has it's CR increased by 1. That is VERY powerful indeed. -ToK
Caterane 10-14-05, 06:53 AM	Nowhere in the FAQ does it say that you can apply Templates as customization! Why not? Half-Celestial Legendary Tiger.
Vathelokai 10-14-05, 07:09 AM	Nowhere in the FAQ does it say that you can apply Templates as customization! Why not? Half-Celestial Legendary Tiger. True, but we wonder if wild talent should be allowed as a feat for your everyday light warhorse.
Caterane 10-14-05, 07:11 AM	Probably not. Psionic feats are too supernatural to be realistic feats for mundane animals.
NiQil 10-14-05, 10:29 AM	Note: the Warfare Alliance is accepting applications. Please send your list of applicants by PM to this account. Members will be decided shortly before guilds become fully operational. Since the various guild threads don't appear to have been changed since they were initially opened.....has there been any word as to what the requirements will be to get in to each guild? Or are there none?
NiQil 10-14-05, 11:17 AM	For the purposes of being able to use Craft (Alchemy), with regard to the requirement that you must have a level in a caster/manifester class to qualify....do soulknives count as a manifesting class for this purpose?
Book5 10-14-05, 11:18 AM	I want to adress allies again. If that ally switching is a problem for you - and I agree that 'a horse for every situation' is a tendency I don't want to see either - we can restrict allies to a certain number. Perhaps 2x your maxCA would be a good place to start. sidenote: jeeze 3 hours later and I have the formatting done for my first fight :nonono: In regards to allies, I think 2x would be excessive. How about 1x, or 3 (not x). This really only applies to "paid for" allies. You dont have more than one cohort, familiar, special mount, or animal companion. I think this should cover the "I have the two bodygaurds that watch my back." - Letting you decide to bring "the team" in or not. Role play analysis: They are waiting in the wings ready to go at a moments notice, but it only takes a moment to say "nah I got it." Then with mounts - while I agree that "a horse for every occasion" is somewhat ludicrous.. I dont think its technically "invalid." I think instead of having a Character level limit - go with a real deal... "Stabling Fee" - Oh you have the skill? Sorry you are busy, gladiator stuff. Someone has to feed, leed, and dress those things while you make appearences and shake hands. You want to bring thirty - thats 60gp. You have a hireling that cares for them? Fine 30gp. Exotic creatures? 120gp. Thats my idea - "Stable Fee" For mounts - and "Backup Team" for allies. Both have to be declared and organized (and paid for ) on your sheet as Arena Stable and Allied Team.
Guildmaster (PSI) 10-14-05, 11:34 AM	The PSI Consortium is opening for buisiness. Applications to the guild are now being accepted, we will require that applicants are psionic, have ranks in psicraft or have a stated goal of entering a psionic prestige class as soon as possable. "Psionic" means that the character has a power point reserve, can manifest psi-like abilities or has taken psionic feats. We will accept without the required miniquest this week and next week. The two finest applicants will be accepted on next tuesday, and the following tuesday an additional three applicants will be accepted. Applicants are required to submit a character and a short story at least 1/2page. This story can describe a pivotal event in the characters history or in some way describe the personality and/or motivations of the character to join the Lawful Evil aligned quest for power that is the Psi Consortium. Send the story in a PM to this account and link the character in that PM. These first five applicants will be reviewed based upon the characters abilities, record in the Arena, ECL, depth of personality and how well that personality matches the goals of the guild. We are an evil organization questing for power, and we want our founding members to generate fame, power and money for the guild. (Note that the Guildmaster's characters will recieve no preference in the early phase of selection.) Over the weekend, I will begin to fillout the theme and culture of the guild in the guild thread. I will also begin to flesh out the guild thread so that it has all the details of the guild's abilities and assets.
SauroGrenom 10-14-05, 11:38 AM	For the purposes of being able to use Craft (Alchemy), with regard to the requirement that you must have a level in a caster/manifester class to qualify....do soulknives count as a manifesting class for this purpose? No it does not. It may be the only psionic class that does not.
nightbanegod 10-14-05, 11:56 AM	"Oh really." "Yes really. Last week, Alanon left on ship for the place. .... "The Company don't know. He hid that. Says he's picking up silk. Don't want that crazy witch Theladrais sniping a good find." *AHEM*.... SOMEONE is up-to-date on thier TERRY BROOKS... :rofl: (BUSTED)
NiQil 10-14-05, 11:59 AM	*AHEM*.... SOMEONE is up-to-date on thier TERRY BROOKS... :rofl: (BUSTED) Heh...where do you think all of the names for the characters I currently have active came from? Hell, I was thinking about making the Elessedils into gnomes LMAO
SoulLord 10-14-05, 12:03 PM	In regards to allies I have to say x2 is a good start compared to unlimited. Now for another technical question. Explosive Runes. I take it you just have to watch it to activate it so no; I'm an iliterate barbarian so I'm inmune to it. Right?
nightbanegod 10-14-05, 12:13 PM	Heh...where do you think all of the names for the characters I currently have active came from? Hell, I was thinking about making the Elessedils into gnomes LMAO AHHH THE HORROR...... but to be fair ... i was tempted about turning ... ahh what was his name... uhh the rogue extrordinaire .. with the mute rock troll buddy... into a dwarven rogue basically
NiQil 10-14-05, 12:20 PM	AHHH THE HORROR...... but to be fair ... i was tempted about turning ... ahh what was his name... uhh the rogue extrordinaire .. with the mute rock troll buddy... into a dwarven rogue basically You would be referring to Panamon Creel....and who was his rock troll buddy? Why...I do believe it was Keltsat :D
waywreth 10-14-05, 01:19 PM	I noted that the powers of Energy "something" (I used Bolt in below example) include every item a person is wearing. Is there an errata/house rule for this for the CC, or does the poor pitlord have to make alot of saving throws? Energy Bolt: Upon manifesting this power, you choose cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. You release a powerful stroke of energy of the chosen type that deals 5d6 points of damage to every creature or object within the area. The beam begins at your fingertips. What about energy missle and/or ball? Thanks in advance,
NiQil 10-14-05, 01:30 PM	I noted that the powers of Energy "something" (I used Bolt in below example) include every item a person is wearing. Is there an errata/house rule for this for the CC, or does the poor pitlord have to make alot of saving throws? What about energy missle and/or ball? Thanks in advance, It was determined that the energy powers would only affect unattended objects...so nothing that someone is carrying. But if they drop it or leave it on the ground, it's fair game.
Enterik 10-14-05, 01:40 PM	...in that order. Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 round Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One humanoid creature Duration: 1 min./level (D) Saving Throw: Fortitude negates Spell Resistance: Yes This spell causes instant diminution of a humanoid creature, halving its height, length, and width and dividing its weight by 8. This decrease changes the creature’s size category to the next smaller one. The target gains a +2 size bonus to Dexterity, a –2 size penalty to Strength (to a minimum of 1), and a +1 bonus on attack rolls and AC due to its reduced size. A Small humanoid creature whose size decreases to Tiny has a space of 2-1/2 feet and a natural reach of 0 feet (meaning that it must enter an opponent’s square to attack). A Large humanoid creature whose size decreases to Medium has a space of 5 feet and a natural reach of 5 feet. This spell doesn’t change the target’s speed. All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly reduced by the spell. Melee and projectile weapons deal less damage. Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any reduced item that leaves the reduced creature’s possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage (projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them). Multiple magical effects that reduce size do not stack. Reduce person counters and dispels enlarge person. Reduce person can be made permanent with a permanency spell. Material Component: A pinch of powdered iron. Illusion (Glamer) Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1, Trickery 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 10 min./level (D) You make yourself—including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment—look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your body type. Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person. The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form, nor does it alter the perceived tactile (touch) or audible (sound) properties of you or your equipment. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on the Disguise check. A creature that interacts with the glamer gets a Will save to recognize it as an illusion. The former is a transmutation resulting in an actual change in size category, the latter is a glamer illusion. At first glance, it seems to be a simple, yes you can do that. However, upon reading the text of the spells more carefully, I realized that disguise self as written might be applied in the follwing manner. 1. Hafling, Wizard-3, Female (Ht. 2'8") size category: small 2. Casts Reduce Person, Halves Height, so Ht.1'4" size category: tiny 3. Casts Disguise Self, reduce apparent height by 1', so Ht. 4" apparent size category: diminutive? Why would one want to do such a thing? For the hide bonus that results from smaller things being harder to spot, in the case of diminutive +12 to hide skill checks. Any sized related modifiers that aren't visually based, such as Attack Bonus and AC modifiers would not be affected by the glamer illusion. Technically, this isn't stacking changes in size category since one is an illusion. The problem is that there are no official tables indicating where size categories begin and end. I looked through the [humanoid] monsters in the SRD3.5 and a clear pattern exists for larger creatures but the data is sparser on the small end... 06" to 01' Diminutive...Capuchin Monkey(?) 01' to 02' Tiny.........Owl(1') to Imp(2') 02' to 04' Small........Kobold(2') to Mephit(4') 04' to 08' Medium.......Dwarf(4') to Merfolk(8') 08' to 16' Large........Girallon(8') to Archaeirai (15') 16' to 32' Huge.........Athach(18') to Titan(25') I suspect non-humanoid lengths follow the same pattern but I have tested that hypothesis explicitly. There are exception to the above pattern but those are creatures with particularly powerful builds (Shambling Mound, Minotaur, Glabrezu). To me the pattern seems clear, the text of reduce person seems clear (half it twice to know what a two category reduction would look like), yet there is no official source to explicitly bear these extrapolations out. I suspect the intention of the disguise self spell description was to limit changes to a certain percentage of the original height, something like 20% of the original appearence, but that is not how it is worded. Until it is changed, I would like to use it as written to effect a tremendous change in hide bonus. Anyone got a problem with this idea? ;) Or better yet, anyone on board with that? Zassl perhaps? :D
TheMagister 10-14-05, 02:09 PM	Ok, i admit, i've never tried flurry with twf before, so i might be off. So lets just assume a Ftr 4/Mnk 7 has the following to-hit bonuses. Is my chart accurate? BaB: +9/+4 +9bab, +7dex, +1mw, +1focus= +18 to hit with q-staff (+1). +9bab, +7dex, +5mfg= +21 to hit unarmed (+5 greater magic fang). +20/+20/+15 flurry unarmed +18/+18/+18/+13 flurry+twf unarmed +18/+18/+18/+13/+13 flurr+twf+imptwf unarmed +17/+20/+12 flurry q-staff/unarmed/q-staff +15/+18/+15/+10 flurry q-staff/unarmed twf (q-staff/unamred/q-staff/q-staff) +15/+18/+15/+13/+10 flurry q-staff/unarmed twf+imptwf (q-staff/unamred/q-staff/unarmed/q-staff) +17/+17/+12 flurry q-staff +15/+15/+15/+10 flurry q-staff +twf +15/+15/+15/+10/+10 flurry q-staff +twf +imptwf -ToK +18 to hit with q-staff (+1). twf (-2 to all attacks, grants extra attack with off hand) + flurry (-1 to all attacks) itwf (-2 to all attacks, grants additional extra attack with off-hand, albeit at a -5 penalty) + flurry (-1 to all attacks): +15 (primary)/+15 (primary)/+10(primary)/+15(off-hand)/+10(off-hand) TM
Tellish_of_Ket 10-14-05, 02:18 PM	+18 to hit with q-staff (+1). twf (-2 to all attacks, grants extra attack with off hand) + flurry (-1 to all attacks) itwf (-2 to all attacks, grants additional extra attack with off-hand, albeit at a -5 penalty) + flurry (-1 to all attacks): +15 (primary)/+15 (primary)/+10(primary)/+15(off-hand)/+10(off-hand) TM +15/+15/+15/+10/+10 flurry q-staff +twf +imptwf Uhm...that's exactly what i have. Not sure what you're trying to quote. hehe. I may have it in a different order, but it's all there. Three at +15, two at +10. ... Anyone got a problem with this idea? ;) Or better yet, anyone on board with that? Zassl perhaps? :D Memorex actually. I don't have a problem with that as my gnome illusionist is on the exact same track as you are. Reduce person/disguise self. Darn, i thought i was the only one who thought of it. oh well...the surprise is ruined. -ToK
Caterane 10-14-05, 02:30 PM	One guild left for the taking! The Watchful Eye needs a Guildmaster. Guildmasters receive 1° per week. Write me a PM!
NiQil 10-14-05, 02:36 PM	Uhm...that's exactly what i have. Not sure what you're trying to quote. hehe. I may have it in a different order, but it's all there. Three at +15, two at +10. Memorex actually. I don't have a problem with that as my gnome illusionist is on the exact same track as you are. Reduce person/disguise self. Darn, i thought i was the only one who thought of it. oh well...the surprise is ruined. -ToK I think the reason TheMagister put it that way is because the order of the attacks matters for things such as strength modifiers to damage. Putting them in the incorrect order that they occur on a character sheet could cause the damage totals to be incorrect.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-14-05, 02:48 PM	I think the reason TheMagister put it that way is because the order of the attacks matters for things such as strength modifiers to damage. Putting them in the incorrect order that they occur on a character sheet could cause the damage totals to be incorrect. I believe i had them in the correct order. The correct order should be prim/prim/off/prim/off. TM listed them as prim/prim/prim/off/off. @Enterik: Memorex's hide: +15 hide [4.0 ranks (8 wizcc), -1 dex, +4 racial, +4 size, +4 favourable conditions]...add +4 reduce person, +4 disguise self (smaller). When he gets a cloak of elvenkind (+10) soon, that will give him a whopping +33 hide at only level 6 or 7 and he's not even a rogue, and he has a dex penalty. LOL LOL LOL. Give him stealthy, and skill focus: hide for 5 more pts if you want to make it +38...but i won't. He'll snipe you from 10' away. -ToK
NiQil 10-14-05, 02:52 PM	I believe i had them in the correct order. The correct order should be prim/prim/off/prim/off. TM listed them as prim/prim/prim/off/off. @Enterik: Memorex's hide: +15 hide [4.0 ranks (8 wizcc), -1 dex, +4 racial, +4 size, +4 favourable conditions]...add +4 reduce person, +4 disguise self (smaller). When he gets a cloak of elvenkind (+10) soon, that will give him a whopping +33 hide at only level 6 or 7 and he's not even a rogue, and he has a dex penalty. LOL LOL LOL. Give him stealthy, and skill focus: hide for 5 more pts if you want to make it +38...but i won't. He'll snipe you from 10' away. -ToK I personally don't think it matters how you list them, as long as you designate in some way which ones are the off hand attacks, and which attacks are being made with a weapon and which with an unarmed strike, so that all of it is right there on the page with no guesswork. But that's me. YMMV
Enterik 10-14-05, 03:17 PM	@Enterik: Memorex's hide: +15 hide [4.0 ranks (8 wizcc), -1 dex, +4 racial, +4 size, +4 favourable conditions]...add +4 reduce person, +4 disguise self (smaller). When he gets a cloak of elvenkind (+10) soon, that will give him a whopping +33 hide at only level 6 or 7 and he's not even a rogue, and he has a dex penalty. LOL LOL LOL. Give him stealthy, and skill focus: hide for 5 more pts if you want to make it +38...but i won't. He'll snipe you from 10' away. -ToK Is that an endorsement?
sloisel 10-14-05, 03:29 PM	@Enterik: Memorex's hide: +15 hide [4.0 ranks (8 wizcc), -1 dex, +4 racial, +4 size, +4 favourable conditions]...add +4 reduce person, +4 disguise self (smaller). When he gets a cloak of elvenkind (+10) soon, that will give him a whopping +33 hide at only level 6 or 7 and he's not even a rogue, and he has a dex penalty. LOL LOL LOL. Give him stealthy, and skill focus: hide for 5 more pts if you want to make it +38...but i won't. He'll snipe you from 10' away. I also have a character like that. http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7226246&postcount=465 Although, where'd you get the idea that disguise self can decrease you one size category? "The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form..." Also, by RotG (or maybe FAQ, don't remember), spells like enlarge and reduce do not stack with spells like polymorph for the purpose of size enhancement. This means that if a human polymorphs into an ogre and then casts enlarge, they're still large. I don't know what happens if you polymorph into an ogre and then cast reduce. Sébastien Loisel
Enterik 10-14-05, 03:54 PM	I also have a character like that. http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7226246&postcount=465 Although, where'd you get the idea that disguise self can decrease you one size category? "The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form..." Also, by RotG (or maybe FAQ, don't remember), spells like enlarge and reduce do not stack with spells like polymorph for the purpose of size enhancement. This means that if a human polymorphs into an ogre and then casts enlarge, they're still large. I don't know what happens if you polymorph into an ogre and then cast reduce. Sébastien Loisel But disguise person is not a polymorph, it is merely the appearence of being smaller, a visually based glamer illusion. How did I get the idea? Well I was reading the spell descriptions just after calculating the height for a build I was working on, basically an arcane sniper specializing in ray spells, but I suspect you meant, how did I read the descriptions and arrive at the above conclusion. Well, hide is a skill, not an ability or mannerism. The fact that hide is positively modified by smaller size and opposed by spot checks, seems to indicate a visual mechanism.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-14-05, 04:16 PM	I was about to say the same thing Enterik. Seb, disguise self is an illusion, it doesn't physically change your size, it just gives you the appearance being smaller to the naked eye. And yes, my guy is a forest gnome as well. -ToK
One_Winged_Angel 10-14-05, 04:29 PM	I was about to say the same thing Enterik. Seb, disguise self is an illusion, it doesn't physically change your size, it just gives you the appearance being smaller to the naked eye. And yes, my guy is a forest gnome as well. -ToK There's always invisibility ;)
Enterik 10-14-05, 04:47 PM	There's always invisibility ;) Invisibility fades when you attack, major drawback. Plus it's a second level spell which cost twice as much as two first level spells, or uses up a lot of prepared slots.
nightbanegod 10-14-05, 07:30 PM	can a bow be made of metal ... as to benefit from the dwarves racial +2 craft modifier for stone/metal items... i dont see why a steel bar curved appropriately would be any different than a bent stick... and it makes more sense with a combosite bow anyways.. and alas i dont have my PHB at hand to verify about construction matierals... and this SRD is worthless in that manner...
Luni 10-14-05, 07:38 PM	can a bow be made of metal ... as to benefit from the dwarves racial +2 craft modifier for stone/metal items... i dont see why a steel bar curved appropriately would be any different than a bent stick... and it makes more sense with a combosite bow anyways.. and alas i dont have my PHB at hand to verify about construction matierals... and this SRD is worthless in that manner... Mundane Crystal is an option. Same price as a Masterwork Version. It has higher Hardness and HP values then wood. And the best part is, it is considered a metal.
nightbanegod 10-14-05, 08:05 PM	Mundane Crystal is an option. Same price as a Masterwork Version. It has higher Hardness and HP values then wood. And the best part is, it is considered a metal. whatabout masterwork... is if considered masterwork and priced accordingly or is it priced as masterwork and considered mundane?
Luni 10-14-05, 08:27 PM	whatabout masterwork... is if considered masterwork and priced accordingly or is it priced as masterwork and considered mundane? Masterwork Composite Longbow= 400 gp. Masterwork Mundane Crystal Longbow = 400 gp.
Vathelokai 10-14-05, 09:59 PM	*AHEM*.... SOMEONE is up-to-date on thier TERRY BROOKS... :rofl: (BUSTED) Actually, I've never read any Terry Brooks. The Alanon refernce was to the support group for relatives of people in alchoholic anonymous. The crazy witch part was a jibe at Sindorin's character from the point of view of a 1st level rogue. Syncronicity, but by no means bust-worthy. *edit* I'm from the Wies/Hickman group of books, actually. Most of what I read is non fantasy these days; Tom Robbins, Willam S. Burroughs, Neal Stevenson, Aryeh Kaplan, Harlan Elison, Colin Wilson, Ken Wilbur, and of course the illustrious J. K. Rowling. That's the short list, anyway.
Sindorin 10-14-05, 10:11 PM	LOL in what thread were you making fun of poor little Va'ria?
Vathelokai 10-14-05, 10:14 PM	LOL in what thread were you making fun of poor little Va'ria? The Memorexicon...yet another literary reference. :rolleyes:
Vathelokai 10-14-05, 10:15 PM	Note to everyone: It'll be another couple hours before I update quests. HUGE news today...everything busy. I'll fill you guys in in a couple days.
nightbanegod 10-14-05, 10:35 PM	ok see.. ive got this character ..see.. and whats the ruling on using the % discount skills in character creation to achieve a discount on startup goods? ... see
TelinArtho 10-14-05, 10:38 PM	You can't use the discount skills in character creation, just like you can't use the skills to make money indefinitely during the time before they became gladiators. The craft feats and skills (weaponsmithing, etc) are the exceptions to this.
Vathelokai 10-15-05, 08:49 AM	Was it ever determined if you can spend PP to augment a psi-like ability? Also, can you augment a powerstone if you make it yourself?
SauroGrenom 10-15-05, 10:14 AM	Was it ever determined if you can spend PP to augment a psi-like ability? Also, can you augment a powerstone if you make it yourself? I was told that psi-like abilities are automatically augmented to the max allowed by the manifester level. This augmentation is made at no pp cost to the character. Powerstones can be augmented to a max of ECL+2 without needing credits. Augmenting a power by 2pp increases the power level by 1. Tattoo's cannot be augmented. This powerstones thing is all covered in the rules thread.
Vathelokai 10-15-05, 11:01 AM	I've got a wierd one....Can a creature without hands use a potion? Like a wolf animal companion or a cat familiar, if it had a proper harness so it could grab it with it's mouth?
SauroGrenom 10-15-05, 11:07 AM	I've got a wierd one....Can a creature without hands use a potion? Like a wolf animal companion or a cat familiar, if it had a proper harness so it could grab it with it's mouth? This is covered at the end of the "Rules of the Game" series on familiars over in the wizards website. A familiar (or animal companion) cannot open a potion, but you could poor some out into a bowl and the animal can "use" the potion by drinking it. A more subtle question is whether psicrystal has hands. They are listed a constructs, but there is no indication (I can find) of what the form of the construct is. Perhaps they are little crystal monkeys with hands and feet.
Vathelokai 10-15-05, 11:10 AM	A more subtle question is whether psicrystal has hands. They are listed a constructs, but there is no indication (I can find) of what the form of the construct is. Perhaps they are little crystal monkeys with hands and feet. The picture makes them out to be hand sized gems that can 'roll' themselves around. So what about the handless creatures taping tatoos, or using other things, such as completion and trigger items?
SauroGrenom 10-15-05, 11:20 AM	So what about the handless creatures taping tatoos, or using other things, such as completion and trigger items? That article in the "Rules of the Game" specifically states that familiars are not spell casters so they do not have the ability to use completion or trigger items. I would say that they can use tattoo's or other use and comand word (if they can speak) activated items. So a psicrystal might be able to use a bag of tricks, but not a wand.
SauroGrenom 10-15-05, 11:25 AM	A psicrystal has a climb speed so it must be able to grip things with its little ectoplasmic feet. Why not use that gripping power to open potions or tap tattoo's. Also the 3.0 edition psicrystal had a tail with its feet, and it was specifically mentioned to have the ability to grip things with the tail.
Vathelokai 10-15-05, 11:32 AM	That article in the "Rules of the Game" specifically states that familiars are not spell casters so they do not have the ability to use completion or trigger items. I would say that they can use tattoo's or other use and comand word (if they can speak) activated items. So a psicrystal might be able to use a bag of tricks, but not a wand. Perhaps I need a better example....lets say a rhino gets the celestial template. It becomes a magical beast, boosting it's int up to 3, making it able to talk and such. Then the celestial rhino takes levels of psychic warrior. Can it use a powerstone of 'breath of the black dragon', assuming ability scores and such would make this possible? Could it have a hireling tie a dorje of entangle to it's head and shoot people with it? *edit* - I just read over this and busted up laughing. I have been up for a long time.
Luni 10-15-05, 11:55 AM	Perhaps I need a better example....lets say a rhino gets the celestial template. It becomes a magical beast, boosting it's int up to 3, making it able to talk and such. Then the celestial rhino takes levels of psychic warrior. Can it use a powerstone of 'breath of the black dragon', assuming ability scores and such would make this possible? Could it have a hireling tie a dorje of entangle to it's head and shoot people with it? *edit* - I just read over this and busted up laughing. I have been up for a long time. It's intelligence is only 3. Do you think advanced concepts such as dorje use are appropiate for a dumb Rhino? He'd probably forget to pay the hireling, or the hireling would tie it backwards. I see this: Rhino Smash! Rhine Charge! Rhino breathe Black Acid! Rhino Breakdance!
One_Winged_Angel 10-15-05, 01:01 PM	Perhaps I need a better example....lets say a rhino gets the celestial template. It becomes a magical beast, boosting it's int up to 3, making it able to talk and such. Then the celestial rhino takes levels of psychic warrior. Can it use a powerstone of 'breath of the black dragon', assuming ability scores and such would make this possible? Could it have a hireling tie a dorje of entangle to it's head and shoot people with it? *edit* - I just read over this and busted up laughing. I have been up for a long time. Actually, there is a very simple answer: yes. Why? Psychic warriors are Wisdom, not int, based. :D Now, if it were a wizard, then no. It states that to use powerstones or scrolls, you must have the minimum requisite ability. Dorjes and wands, on the other hand, have no such requisite. They simply need a caster level. Yes, even a paladin can use an arcane wand. For this reason, a wizard can use a wand of cure light wounds and a psion can use a dojre of Graft Weapon. As for body slots...I kinda doubt it. The components are still there. I think we've had a debate similar to this one. Sure, it might be feasably possible, but it's unlikely. Although, now that I think about it, dragons can likely use scrolls. They have fine minipulation though... It's a different debate alright.
Luni 10-15-05, 01:04 PM	Dorjes and wands, on the other hand, have no such requisite. They simply need a caster level. Yes, even a paladin can use an arcane wand. For this reason, a wizard can use a wand of cure light wounds and a psion can use a dojre of Graft Weapon. Wands aren't arcane or divine. The only thing governing wands is spell list.
SauroGrenom 10-15-05, 02:08 PM	Dorjes and wands, on the other hand, have no such requisite. They simply need a caster level. Yes, even a paladin can use an arcane wand. For this reason, a wizard can use a wand of cure light wounds and a psion can use a dojre of Graft Weapon. First wands require that you have the spell on your class spell list. Paladins cannot use wands that cast arcane spell is if they have access to the arcane spell list in some way. Also wizards do not have cure spells on their class spell list so they cannot use cure wands without accessing a spell list with a cure on it. Second A celestial rino would not necessarily have the ability of speach. Familiars have int6 and do not have the ability of speach. A rino has no way to hold anything. A dragon or a troll have claws and could hold a scroll or wand in their claw then use that item. Most quadrapeds do not have claws or hands, and they are unable to hold anything. A creature with tentacles could hold a wand or scroll. Lastly the whole argument is mute at CoCo. You cannot buy allies with class levels and neither can familiars or animal companions have class levels. The only way to get a celestial rino with class levels would be to take one as a cohort. Even that is a gray area, and the elders may not allow it.
DMing 10-15-05, 02:15 PM	i have a question, i have been informed that i'm a guildmaster of the wachful eye by caterane, how do i make it offical?
Tellish_of_Ket 10-15-05, 02:21 PM	For this reason, a wizard can use a wand of cure light wounds Wrong. A wizard cannot use a wand of clw. It's not on their class list. i have a question, i have been informed that i'm a guildmaster of the wachful eye by caterane, how do i make it offical? It seems like you just did made it official. :D Congradulations. -ToK
SauroGrenom 10-15-05, 02:26 PM	i have a question, i have been informed that i'm a guildmaster of the wachful eye by caterane, how do i make it offical? You just log into the guildmaster's account and make an announcement to the effect that your guild is accepting members.
One_Winged_Angel 10-15-05, 09:58 PM	Wrong. A wizard cannot use a wand of clw. It's not on their class list. -ToK Urk. I'm an old player. It used to be that wizards just used every wand. *Sigh* Oh, well. Well, question on scrolls now: does Spell Focus and similar abilities apply to spells cast from scrolls? My first gut instinct said yes, but I'm not sure if it's only spells cast from memory. Ideas?
TelinArtho 10-15-05, 10:20 PM	Spells cast from scrolls already have all of the variables set before you cast the spell. Therefore, even if you have a +25 modifier to your intelligence and 20th level, if you cast a Scroll of Sleep (CL1) - it will last 1 minute and have a resist DC of 11. It doesn't matter what feats you have to modify that - unless you are able to put the feats on the scroll (metamagic). Spell Focus/Penetration and feats like Augmented Summoning do not get applied to the scroll whether or not you crafted the scroll or have them when you are casting from the scroll.
MysticMonk2005 10-15-05, 10:36 PM	First wands require that you have the spell on your class spell list. Paladins cannot use wands that cast arcane spell is if they have access to the arcane spell list in some way. Also wizards do not have cure spells on their class spell list so they cannot use cure wands without accessing a spell list with a cure on it. Yea... about that... Check: You can use this skill to read a spell or to activate a magic item. Use Magic Device lets you use a magic item as if you had the spell ability or class features of another class, as if you were a different race, or as if you were of a different alignment. So if your wizard realy wants to, he can cast CLW from a wand.
One_Winged_Angel 10-16-05, 12:26 AM	@Mystic: Not what I had in mind, but yah. @Telin: Yah, I was wondering about that part. But does that mean that a self crafted scroll from a caster with spell focus would get the extra +1 to DC?
TelinArtho 10-16-05, 01:17 AM	Nope - since it is not a metamagic feat - the scroll takes the minimums that it allows. A 3rd level spell off of a scroll will almost always be a DC14 check. A 9th level spell off of scroll - DC23. I'm saying almost, because there just might be an exception that i don't know of.
Vathelokai 10-16-05, 07:51 AM	Yah, I was wondering about that part. But does that mean that a self crafted scroll from a caster with spell focus would get the extra +1 to DC? The only way to make a scroll with a higher DC is scribe it with the heighten metamagic.
Vathelokai 10-16-05, 07:53 AM	Hmmm....seems I forgot the headband of intelect +10 for my celestial Rhino. But that's not really the question I was asking. Scrolls need two hands (one to hold, one to cast) but powerstones don't have that kind of limitation. Could they just be on your person, or do you have to hold it with a hand? And if you don't have a hand, can you hold it in your mouth. Even if you have to use mage hand to get it there? Same with djore's and wands and staffs and et cetera?
Book5 10-16-05, 09:37 AM	[QUOTE=One_Winged_Angel]Urk. I'm an old player. It used to be that wizards just used every wand. *Sigh* Oh, well. QUOTE] How about this nifty trick (I cant take the credit - saw it in Sage Advice right after 3.0 came out) Bard = Arcane Cure Light. Bard + Scribe Scroll = Arcane Scroll of Cure Light Wizard + Arcane Scroll of Cure Light + SpellCraft = New Spell in spell book. --------> dada dada = Wizard with Cure Light on Spell List. + Wand = Have fun!
Vathelokai 10-16-05, 10:08 AM	[QUOTE=One_Winged_Angel]Urk. I'm an old player. It used to be that wizards just used every wand. *Sigh* Oh, well. QUOTE] How about this nifty trick (I cant take the credit - saw it in Sage Advice right after 3.0 came out) Bard = Arcane Cure Light. Bard + Scribe Scroll = Arcane Scroll of Cure Light Wizard + Arcane Scroll of Cure Light + SpellCraft = New Spell in spell book. --------> dada dada = Wizard with Cure Light on Spell List. + Wand = Have fun! But bards don't have spellbooks. And wizards cannot scribe a scroll to a book that they don't have on their spell list.....This came up last week.
Book5 10-16-05, 10:22 AM	[QUOTE=Book5] But bards don't have spellbooks. And wizards cannot scribe a scroll to a book that they don't have on their spell list.....This came up last week. Er, I thought that was The Magic Domain and how it related to Clerics.. or maybe I missed the conversation... anyway - Bards can scribe scrolls, and as far as I've read in the SRD I dont see a specific negation on what spells can and cannot be copied from scrolls other than the arcane only thing. Sides - its just Conjuration (Positive Energy). OH, and I did my intro on the Boltzman theater thread! :D question - am I gonna be "guild member" or "guild associate?" - I cant even cast a level 2 spell yet.
Vathelokai 10-16-05, 10:30 AM	[QUOTE=Vathelokai] Er, I thought that was The Magic Domain and how it related to Clerics.. or maybe I missed the conversation... anyway - Bards can scribe scrolls, and as far as I've read in the SRD I dont see a specific negation on what spells can and cannot be copied from scrolls other than the arcane only thing. Sides - its just Conjuration (Positive Energy). It was woven into the magic domain discussion, somewhere. OH, and I did my intro on the Boltzman theater thread! :D question - am I gonna be "guild member" or "guild associate?" - I cant even cast a level 2 spell yet.You will be full member. The prereqs. to join have been changed. They are posted in the council and I haven't updated the guild thread yet. You have a knowledge skill and 1st level arcane spells, so Tan is in.
Book5 10-16-05, 10:31 AM	Hmmm....seems I forgot the headband of intelect +10 for my celestial Rhino. But that's not really the question I was asking. Scrolls need two hands (one to hold, one to cast) but powerstones don't have that kind of limitation. Could they just be on your person, or do you have to hold it with a hand? And if you don't have a hand, can you hold it in your mouth. Even if you have to use mage hand to get it there? Same with djore's and wands and staffs and et cetera? one word - Prestidigitation(Sp) Having just looked up the details there are four ways to activate a psionic item power completion... power trigger.. Command Thought... and Use Actvated! Now, where does it say you need two hands to use a scroll? I read "must be able to read the scroll" and "must perform the final actions of the spell" - basically, You have the scroll tacked to the wall and its a verbal component only... you can have two weapons in hand and use the scroll, and I think the power completion items are probably functioning the same. You must have contact with it, and you must take the actions you would were you manifesting the power yourself - ie concentrate. So, yeah. I would rule that the Rhino with the headband of intelect can have a powerstone in its mouth, or somewhere :censored: for that matter, and as long as he has psicraft he can manifest it.
Vathelokai 10-16-05, 11:11 AM	one word - Prestidigitation(Sp) Now, where does it say you need two hands to use a scroll? I read "must be able to read the scroll" and "must perform the final actions of the spell" - basically, You have the scroll tacked to the wall and its a verbal component only... you can have two weapons in hand and use the scroll, and I think the power completion items are probably functioning the same. You must have contact with it, and you must take the actions you would were you manifesting the power yourself - ie concentrate. A scroll is cast 'exactly like a spell' so you have to have one hand free to do somatic components; not always, but most of the time. The other hand has to hold the scroll. There are ways around that, some spells or you could lay it out on the ground or tack it up, but those are not always feasable in a combat situation. I guess the hypothetical rhino would just have to get that necklace of mage hand. But that begs another question; can you use a wand that you are holding with mage hand, or do you have to physicly aim it?
Book5 10-16-05, 11:40 AM	Well yeah you have to "physically aim it" but I think mage hand qualifys as "physical." It is a hand. That you control, as your own, with enough strength to hold and whip around a wand. What else is needed? A Magic conduit? Is the energetic connection between the mage hand and the caster not enough? Scrolls weigh even less than wands - you could hold those up with prestidigitation.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-16-05, 12:09 PM	I would say neither mage hand, nor prestidigitatin would allow you "wield" a wand for use. The rule is kinda specific in that you need to be able to "wield" it and wielding is also defined. A mage hand cannot use a weapon to make attack rolls, so since it can't "wield" a weapon, there isn't any reason why i could "wield" a wand. -ToK
Book5 10-16-05, 12:19 PM	I would say neither mage hand, nor prestidigitatin would allow you "wield" a wand for use. The rule is kinda specific in that you need to be able to "wield" it and wielding is also defined. A mage hand cannot use a weapon to make attack rolls, so since it can't "wield" a weapon, there isn't any reason why i could "wield" a wand. -ToK You point your finger at an object and can lift it and move it at will from a distance. yeah, I see what your saying. I dont think Rhino's have fingers. Mage hand is more like a 5lb levitate other. But a spell that does like TK "An object can be telekinetically manipulated as if with one hand."
Tellish_of_Ket 10-16-05, 12:33 PM	yeah, I see what your saying. I dont think Rhino's have fingers. Mage hand is more like a 5lb levitate other. But a spell that does like TK "An object can be telekinetically manipulated as if with one hand." "Lifting it and moving it" is far different than "wielding it" which is what is required for weapons and wands. -ToK
Emrys Donovan 10-16-05, 04:34 PM	What do I roll to confirm a crit? Just a plain 1d20? Or do I add the weapon bonus as well?
Gonbow 10-16-05, 04:48 PM	What do I roll to confirm a crit? Just a plain 1d20? Or do I add the weapon bonus as well? You roll the attack again. If it would have hit, it's a crit. I.E: With all the bonuses that applied for the first roll.
Vathelokai 10-16-05, 04:54 PM	Can you add further enhancement to the 'specific armors' (like rhino hide or lions shield) found in the SRD? Most of them have specific +X enhancements. Do I use those, or is the enhancement different because of the bonus powers?
Maraxus 10-16-05, 05:12 PM	A +2 keen Flametongue is an example for a "custom permanent items not related to the ones in the DMG but still calculatable". So yes, you can add other stuff to that items but first it costs 15° and second is needs approval from the GM.
Luni 10-16-05, 05:48 PM	A +2 keen Flametongue is an example for a "custom permanent items not related to the ones in the DMG but still calculatable". So yes, you can add other stuff to that items but first it costs 15° and second is needs approval from the GM. No, no. That means that anyone who gets a +1 Mithril Chain Shirt needs to spend 15° to get it,. I'm pretty sure you can update the specific armor and weapons. I think I saw it listed in the FaQ somewhere.
Maraxus 10-16-05, 06:07 PM	I don't understand this. Mithral is a specific material and +1 is a normal enchantment. This has nothing to do with the special arms and armor.
Usurpator 10-16-05, 06:20 PM	I don't understand this. Mithral is a specific material and +1 is a normal enchantment. This has nothing to do with the special arms and armor. I guess anyone who wants a 10 lbs. enchanted mithril shirt needs to pay credits, anyone who wants a 12.5 lbs. enchanted can just pay gold only. ;)
Luni 10-16-05, 06:39 PM	Table: Specific Armors 01-50 01-25 — Mithral shirt 1,100 gp 51-80 26-45 — Dragonhide plate 3,300 gp 81-100 46-57 — Elven chain 4,150 gp — 58-67 — Rhino hide 5,165 gp — 68-82 01-10 Adamantine breastplate 10,200 gp — 83-97 11-20 Dwarven plate 16,500 gp — 98-100 21-32 Banded mail of luck 18,900 gp — — 33-50 Celestial armor 22,400 gp — — 51-60 Plate armor of the deep 24,650 gp — — 61-75 Breastplate of command 25,400 gp — — 76-90 Mithral full plate of speed 26,500 gp — — 91-100 Demon armor 52,260 gp See. Mithril Chain Shirt is in the DMG as a "magic item". Therefore, anyone with a mithril Full Plate, +1 Mithril Chain Shirt, are all custom made magic items based upon the DMG.
Vathelokai 10-16-05, 07:41 PM	I'll try an example... The Rhino hide costs 5,165gp. Masterwork hide costs 165, the +2 enhancement cost 4000... That leaves 1000gp left over. Should I treat the 1000 gp as an extra +1, or is it miscelaneous? If I try to enhance it further, should I treat it as a +2 armor or a +3?
Luni 10-16-05, 07:59 PM	I'll try an example... The Rhino hide costs 5,165gp. Masterwork hide costs 165, the +2 enhancement cost 4000... That leaves 1000gp left over. Should I treat the 1000 gp as an extra +1, or is it miscelaneous? If I try to enhance it further, should I treat it as a +2 armor or a +3? Hmm. I'm unsure. I searched the FaQ, but it has nothing on this that I could find.
NiQil 10-16-05, 08:14 PM	I would say neither mage hand, nor prestidigitatin would allow you "wield" a wand for use. The rule is kinda specific in that you need to be able to "wield" it and wielding is also defined. A mage hand cannot use a weapon to make attack rolls, so since it can't "wield" a weapon, there isn't any reason why i could "wield" a wand. -ToK I brought this point up when asking about using wands in the hand that holds a light shield. Can you kindly point to me in this section on activating wands where it says anything about "wielding" a wand? (Emphasis mine) Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.
NiQil 10-16-05, 08:20 PM	I'll try an example... The Rhino hide costs 5,165gp. Masterwork hide costs 165, the +2 enhancement cost 4000... That leaves 1000gp left over. Should I treat the 1000 gp as an extra +1, or is it miscelaneous? If I try to enhance it further, should I treat it as a +2 armor or a +3? Rhino Hide: This +2 hide armor is made from rhinoceros hide. In addition to granting a +2 enhancement bonus to AC, it has a –1 armor check penalty and deals an additional 2d6 points of damage on any successful charge attack made by the wearer, including a mounted charge. Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, bull’s strength; Price 5,165 gp; Cost 2,665 gp + 200 XP. My take on it... Masterwork hide is 165. the +2 enhancement bonus is 4000. The difference (1000) is used up in the special ability that it gains with regard to charges. Although it does not specifically state it, it appears that the special ability is priced as an additional +1 bonus, which would give it a total of +3 in enhancements. The additional special ability would count against the total possible +10 in enhancements that any weapon/armor can have. If you wanted to enhance the armor itself, it would be from a +2 to a +3 in hide armor, with the additional +1 special ability still there for a total of +4 in enchantments.
Guildmaster (PSI) 10-16-05, 09:00 PM	The PSI Consortium (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=517706) thread has been updated with a skeleton of basic information for the guild. Those interested in joining can read the first post and I hope that the information there will answer any questions about entry requirements. Please look it over and consider joining the guild with your psionic characters.
Vathelokai 10-16-05, 09:21 PM	My take on it... Masterwork hide is 165. the +2 enhancement bonus is 4000. The difference (1000) is used up in the special ability that it gains with regard to charges. Although it does not specifically state it, it appears that the special ability is priced as an additional +1 bonus, which would give it a total of +3 in enhancements. The additional special ability would count against the total possible +10 in enhancements that any weapon/armor can have. If you wanted to enhance the armor itself, it would be from a +2 to a +3 in hide armor, with the additional +1 special ability still there for a total of +4 in enchantments. Well, if it counted as a +3 then it should cost 9000gp...And there are some special ablities, like resist fire, that give a price instead of a +X. I'm thinking the bonus power should be seperate from the enhancement, but I wanted some other opinions. Thanks for yours. Anyone else?
Luni 10-16-05, 09:36 PM	I'd say +2 Hide = 4165 gp. Special ability = 1000 gp.
NiQil 10-16-05, 09:42 PM	I'd say +2 Hide = 4165 gp. Special ability = 1000 gp. This is what I was trying to say, but poorly articulated. The special ability it has is not listed as something that can normally be added to armor (i.e. it's not on the chart), so the extra 1000 gp is how that ability is justified.
Iced 10-16-05, 10:52 PM	Can somebody please audit Griff (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5600135) for me?
NiQil 10-17-05, 12:31 AM	Can you score a critical hit with a splash weapon such as acid or alchemist's fire? If so (with regard to alchemist's fire), does the critical damage carry over into the following round of continuous damage as well?
SauroGrenom 10-17-05, 01:01 AM	Can you score a critical hit with a splash weapon such as acid or alchemist's fire? I would say no. It is not a weapon with a listed critical threat range. So no critical hits possable.
Luni 10-17-05, 01:05 AM	I would say no. It is not a weapon with a listed critical threat range. So no critical hits possable. I disagree. Spells aren't listed with a threat range, and they can crit. @NiQiL: The extra damage would only apply to the first hit. The extra damage from Alchemist Fire would be the normal d6.
Snommelp 10-17-05, 01:06 AM	I would say no. It is not a weapon with a listed critical threat range. So no critical hits possable. Improvised weapons and weapons without critical threats listed (like spells that need attack rolls) are 20/x2. I don't know about secondary damage for the alchemist's fire, though. I'd say no, but that's just me. EDIT: and Luni, apparently.
NiQil 10-17-05, 01:15 AM	I would say no. It is not a weapon with a listed critical threat range. So no critical hits possable. Critical Hits: When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target’s Armor Class, and you have scored a threat. The hit might be a critical hit (or “crit”). To find out if it’s a critical hit, you immediately make a critical roll—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the critical roll also results in a hit against the target’s AC, your original hit is a critical hit. (The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit. It doesn’t need to come up 20 again.) If the critical roll is a miss, then your hit is just a regular hit. A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. Unless otherwise specified, the threat range for a critical hit on an attack roll is 20, and the multiplier is x2. Since it is not othewise stated, splash weapons do have a critical threat range.
Ravashack 10-17-05, 02:17 AM	Something that I'm curious about. I didn't really see something like this in the rules, but am I allowed to hire an NPC to enchant an existing item of mine? For example, my character Perius has a Heavy Mithril Shield that I was considering to upgrade into a +1 Animated Heavy Mithril Shield in the near future. Would I be able to do that, or is that considered customizing the item (and thus require credits)? If I am able to do that, how would that be handled? Would the character have to sit out, or would he just simply be considered to not have access to the item at the time if it is greater than 6 days? Or would he be considered to have access, but each time it is used it in the Arena adds 1 to the total number of days needed before it gets upgraded? (Since you're allowed to interrupt work on magical item crafting normally)
waywreth 10-17-05, 09:57 AM	Dargain Dar'ath (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7520152&postcount=502) If anyone has the time to take a look at my dwarven cleric/psionicist it would be greatly appreciated, it's the first psion I've every created (CoC or otherwise). Any tips on stuff to buy would be dandy as well. Thanks in advance,
SoulLord 10-17-05, 10:25 AM	Something that I'm curious about. I didn't really see something like this in the rules, but am I allowed to hire an NPC to enchant an existing item of mine? For example, my character Perius has a Heavy Mithril Shield that I was considering to upgrade into a +1 Animated Heavy Mithril Shield in the near future. Would I be able to do that, or is that considered customizing the item (and thus require credits)? If I am able to do that, how would that be handled? Would the character have to sit out, or would he just simply be considered to not have access to the item at the time if it is greater than 6 days? Or would he be considered to have access, but each time it is used it in the Arena adds 1 to the total number of days needed before it gets upgraded? (Since you're allowed to interrupt work on magical item crafting normally) Allies are not allowed to craft it's somewhere on the rules of the game link.
Snommelp 10-17-05, 10:56 AM	Allies are not allowed to craft it's somewhere on the rules of the game link. Not an ally, an NPC. Like going to the Arcane Order and asking one of the resident NPC wizards to enchant a shield. I certainly hope it's legal, because otherwise Grik's in violation of the rules three times over.
TelinArtho 10-17-05, 11:07 AM	If you pay for enchanting, the effects are made immediately. So increasing a sword from +1 to +5 (a total change of 48k which would take 48 days to finish), can be done without sitting out. However, if you are doing the crafting, you are going to have to sit out a full 7 weeks to get it done yourself - the benefit being that you can save 24k in the doing...
Snommelp 10-17-05, 11:31 AM	It's a little bit funny, this feeling inside... ...er, I mean, it's funny that Grik's my first gladiator to make the ECL 5 league in Living Gladius who didn't start there. Funny or sad. I'm not sure which.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-17-05, 11:32 AM	Not an ally, an NPC. Like going to the Arcane Order and asking one of the resident NPC wizards to enchant a shield. I certainly hope it's legal, because otherwise Grik's in violation of the rules three times over. Uhm...well then your basically buying it right out of the DMG and paying full price. If you are implying you are paying half gp for anything you buy out of the DMG, you would be in violation. -ToK
Snommelp 10-17-05, 11:40 AM	Uhm...well then your basically buying it right out of the DMG and paying full price. If you are implying you are paying half gp for anything you buy out of the DMG, you would be in violation. -ToKNo, I'm paying full price. Or rather, full price minus the price of the previous upgrade, which is in essence full price for the next upgrade.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-17-05, 11:45 AM	No, I'm paying full price. Or rather, full price minus the price of the previous upgrade, which is in essence full price for the next upgrade. THen you are not in violation. -ToK
Ravashack 10-17-05, 11:59 AM	If you pay for enchanting, the effects are made immediately. So increasing a sword from +1 to +5 (a total change of 48k which would take 48 days to finish), can be done without sitting out. However, if you are doing the crafting, you are going to have to sit out a full 7 weeks to get it done yourself - the benefit being that you can save 24k in the doing... Excellent. :) Oh...are there any issues with mixing psionic and magical effects on an item? For example, once the item is enhanced by either manner, would I be able to add, say, Power Resistance (as an example) to a +2 Animated Shield, or do I need to keep the shield all magic or all psionic?
TelinArtho 10-17-05, 12:38 PM	Aquin is looking to purchase a necklace with See Invisibility as the power 1/day. The only item I have it to is the hand of Glory which allows you to use a ring in the necklace slot, and Daylight (1/day) and See Invisibility (1/day). The Hand of Glory is 8000gp. A 1 use/day spell on an item is (CL x SL x 2000gp)/((5/# uses per day)/5) or 3 x 2 x 2000gp/((5/1)/5)) or 12000gp/5 or 2400gp. The price breakdown of the Hand Of Glory doesn't work out to this amount, but if anything, it would seem to be cheaper: See Invisibility (2400gp - as above) Daylight (5 x 3 x 2000gp)/5 = 6000gp Ring slot in Necklace position = ??? So would 2400gp and 15 credits be a reasonable price for this item?
NiQil 10-17-05, 01:00 PM	Aquin is looking to purchase a necklace with See Invisibility as the power 1/day. The only item I have it to is the hand of Glory which allows you to use a ring in the necklace slot, and Daylight (1/day) and See Invisibility (1/day). The Hand of Glory is 8000gp. A 1 use/day spell on an item is (CL x SL x 2000gp)/((5/# uses per day)/5) or 3 x 2 x 2000gp/((5/1)/5)) or 12000gp/5 or 2400gp. The price breakdown of the Hand Of Glory doesn't work out to this amount, but if anything, it would seem to be cheaper: See Invisibility (2400gp - as above) Daylight (5 x 3 x 2000gp)/5 = 6000gp Ring slot in Necklace position = ??? So would 2400gp and 15 credits be a reasonable price for this item? I didn't quite follow that explanation...I'm still waking up...but if memory serves I believe that putting something in an uncommon slot triples the cost. Take a look at an Amulet of Mighty Fists....it's 3x as much as it would be if it was in the correct (glove or gauntlet) slot. Not sure if this has any bearing at all on what you are trying to do...just figured I'd throw it out there. I need caffeine in large quantities...preferably from an IV drip. :zzz:
Luni 10-17-05, 01:01 PM	Excellent. :) Oh...are there any issues with mixing psionic and magical effects on an item? For example, once the item is enhanced by either manner, would I be able to add, say, Power Resistance (as an example) to a +2 Animated Shield, or do I need to keep the shield all magic or all psionic? Nope. You can mix and match your shiel with Psionic and Magic abilities. If you want a Vanishing, Animiated Shield, go right ahead.
waywreth 10-17-05, 01:05 PM	Telin - I would note that single use per day items are far more powerful in the CoCo than they would be in a standard campaign. Spell level × caster level × 2,000 gp 2*3*2,000 = 12,000 12,000*1.5 (adjustment as it's 10 min per level) = 18,000 Divide by (5 divided by charges per day) 18,000/5 = 3,600 gp No bonus nor penalty for slot as neck falls under discernment. The 15° seems correct. Result = necklace that can cast see invisibility once per day for 30 minutes with a standard action to activate.
TelinArtho 10-17-05, 01:14 PM	@Waywreth - I don't believe the cost multiplier comes in, since it is a use-activated item rather than a continuous item. As to the item being "more beneficial" as a 1/day item in the arena - that may be true - however, the hand of glory is still an allowable item and is a relative bargain at 8000gp. In all honesty, if Aquin had the money for it - he'd probably still make it 3/day on his own, but he just doesn't have the money right now. @NiQil - since the item is based off of the hand of glory - I don't see it as a non-customary slot (clearly the hand is pretty underpriced as it is).
TelinArtho 10-17-05, 01:17 PM	Can somebody please audit Griff (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5600135) for me? I'll work on it right now.
waywreth 10-17-05, 01:25 PM	@Waywreth - I don't believe the cost multiplier comes in, since it is a use-activated item rather than a continuous item. I disagree. The multiplier should occur as it's lasting 30 minutes rather than 3 minutes or even 3 rounds. That's a big difference.
TelinArtho 10-17-05, 03:17 PM	If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half. I disagree. The multiplier should occur as it's lasting 30 minutes rather than 3 minutes or even 3 rounds. That's a big difference. According to your description then, if it was a spell that lasted 1 round/level, I should then multiply the cost by 4 even if it is not continuous and only usable 1/day? That doesn't make any sense. I'm still in the opinion that the above quoted from the SRD is for Continuous items only - and does not apply for use/day items.
waywreth 10-17-05, 03:24 PM	According to your description then, if it was a spell that lasted 1 round/level, I should then multiply the cost by 4 even if it is not continuous and only usable 1/day? That doesn't make any sense. I'm still in the opinion that the above quoted from the SRD is for Continuous items only - and does not apply for use/day items. Hmm good point. Then while your 2,400 gp is technically correct, I feel that it should be more - as I mentioned the 1/day item is far more useful in CoCo. Then again you are spending 15 credits as well, and the item isn't in any way overpowering, so I see no issues for 2,400gp and 15 credits.
TelinArtho 10-17-05, 03:29 PM	Honestly, it isn't that bad at all. I can see one of two things happening in my fights if I get the item: 1. The opponent chooses not to use invisibility (in which case he's saved 75gp-300gp (if using a potion or a scroll (or a scribed scroll)) or 2 spell levels) 2. The opponent still uses invisibility and tries to use a targetted dispel on me, in which case, he's probably averted my item for the combat and I'm back where I started.
sloisel 10-17-05, 04:48 PM	Excellent. :) Oh...are there any issues with mixing psionic and magical effects on an item? For example, once the item is enhanced by either manner, would I be able to add, say, Power Resistance (as an example) to a +2 Animated Shield, or do I need to keep the shield all magic or all psionic? The latest FAQ suggests that you can have both psionic and magic all at once. They didn't phrase it super clearly, but it seems like a flaming psychokinetic +1 longsword counts as a +3 weapon for pricing purposes. The disappointing part is that they asked a precise question, something like "how much for a flaming psychokinetic +1 longsword?" and the answer portion doesn't actually say what the cost is. I guess the electrons they would've needed to write "18,015gp" were too expensive. Sébastien Loisel
TelinArtho 10-17-05, 04:50 PM	Well, that particular example would be 18315gp (don't forget to add the masterwork cost...)
Emrys Donovan 10-17-05, 07:01 PM	Anyone care to check out Malachai (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7521851&postcount=503)? He's my latest creation...<insert evil laugh here>...But you wont see him fighting for a while as I'm going to wait to play him for a while. Thanks guys.
One_Winged_Angel 10-17-05, 07:14 PM	Ok, I was taking a look at the psionics feats, and there is a COCO question I'd like very, very much to beseech of the Elders (you guys still there somewhere?). BODY FUEL [PSIONIC] You can expand your power point total at the expense of your health. Benefit: You can recover 2 power points by taking 1 point of ability burn damage to each of your three ability scores: Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. You can recover additional power points for a proportional cost to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. These recovered points are added to your power point reserve as if you had gained them by resting overnight. Special: Only living creatures can use this feat. You can take advantage of this feat only while in your own body. Can we use this feat to give ourselves bonus power points during battle? If so, how would it apply under the 1/3 rule?
Tellish_of_Ket 10-17-05, 07:29 PM	Can we use this feat to give ourselves bonus power points during battle? If so, how would it apply under the 1/3 rule? Yes you may. Let me give you an example. PP: 12, 1/3 = 4 pp for your match. You spend all 4 during the match, then burn body fuel (-2 each) to get you 4 pp pts back. It is the same as not having used any pp for the match. You are again at 4 pp to use for the remainder of the match. If you use those 4 up, you can burn more body fuel (-2 each again), and get 4 more pp back to use for the fight. It's similar to pearls of power, but obviously far more powerful and cost effective. An arcane caster has to spend 500-1000gp just to get a 1st level spell back. I could be wrong though...it could be divisible by 3. It may add to your total power pts...bringing you from 12-14, meaning you would effective give yourself 1 more pp for the match. I'd need a second opinion though. -ToK
SauroGrenom 10-17-05, 07:30 PM	Can we use this feat to give ourselves bonus power points during battle? If so, how would it apply under the 1/3 rule? With regard to the Body Fuel feat, I'm not an elder so my opinion matters for squat. None the less, I would be of the opinion that the PP gained are entirely usable in the fight and are not divided by 3. This opinion is based in the fact that you suffer the effect immediately and that effects your performance in the arena imediately, so you should get to have the benefit immediately.
Prisonlords 10-17-05, 08:20 PM	Hey Everyone! I wanted everyone to know that the Prison has been fully updated. For those who are in prison or have violations, just go to The Rap Sheet of Gladius and follow the links. If the problem(s) have been fixed, send a PM to the NARC (Person who posted the problem) and then they will change their post to say FIXED. DO NOT PM Prisonlords to fix anything UNLESS your character is IN PRISON! If the NARC has not modified their post after a week, PM Prisonlords at that time. List of Violators and Prisoners: Aramur the Aurora Prince (Usurpator) *Violation* Greefe (Ribking) *Violation* Shan (Shaken, not Stunned) *Violation* Lothan Laurel (Faroth) [P] The Gatekeeper (Iced) *Violation* The Wasp (LongArcher) *Violation* (3 of them!) Archie Longbow (LongArcher) [P] Grakk Mightyfist (Aramil Dunskar) *Violation* Mer-Man (Caterane) [P] Kota Ir Simeihn Avador (King Uther) [P] Virgo Arkazzan (King Uther) *Violation* LLPL
SauroGrenom 10-17-05, 09:06 PM	Do custom mounts cost credits? I was under the impression that custom mounts only cost credits if they are advanced in HD or if they use the "Elite" stat spread.
One_Winged_Angel 10-17-05, 10:25 PM	Do custom mounts cost credits? I was under the impression that custom mounts only cost credits if they are advanced in HD or if they use the "Elite" stat spread. Or if you modify their feats and/or skills. Which, btw, brings a question that's been nagging me. Do familiars and animal companions get skills as they advance in HD? I'm guessing not, but it was something brought up in a game recently.
Snommelp 10-17-05, 10:54 PM	Or if you modify their feats and/or skills. Which, btw, brings a question that's been nagging me. Do familiars and animal companions get skills as they advance in HD? I'm guessing not, but it was something brought up in a game recently. This was brought up recently, except replace "get skills" with "get bigger." I don't remember the reasoning, but the answer was no.
SauroGrenom 10-17-05, 11:15 PM	Which, btw, brings a question that's been nagging me. Do familiars and animal companions get skills as they advance in HD? I'm guessing not, but it was something brought up in a game recently. For familiars: the skills, bab, and saves are tied to those of the masters. Animal companions on the other hand I don't know.
SauroGrenom 10-17-05, 11:23 PM	OK, I looked it up in the rules thread, and I was right before. For purchased allies you can customize feats and skills at a cost of +100gp/feat or +100gp/all skills. Advancement of these to an "Elite" stat spread or to become an "advanced" monster each costs 2credits. So you can buy a horse with special feats, so long as the horse qualifies for the feats, at only +100gp/feat cost.
NiQil 10-17-05, 11:26 PM	To the best of my knowledge, Animal Companions advance normally for animals, except where changed by animal companion abilities. They do not, however, progress in size due to extra hit dice. But skills, BAB, etc, should still progress normally, or with animal companion modification (depending on what you are looking at). Familiars, on the other hand, are almost totally progressed based upon their masters' statistics.
SauroGrenom 10-17-05, 11:38 PM	Just to clarify as I said before, the skills, saves, HP, bab and HD of a familiar are all tied to the masters stats. The animal does not actually gain HD because the text states as follows:Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master’s character level or the familiar’s normal HD total, whichever is higher. So for a sleep spell the familiar has the same number of HD as the master, but no extra feats. I just looked in the SRD section on animal companions and they gain real HD. So skills, feats, saves, bab, and so on are all tied to their actual HD. Psicrystals are another thing entirely though. The saves, skills and HP of a psicrystal are all tied to those of its master. The HD of the psicrystal are not mentioned in the SRD section on psionic classes. Instead the SRD section on psionic monsteres mentions the psicrystal as having a number of HD equal to the masters levels in psion or wilder classes. So this appears to be real HD not just "HD for the purpose of effects related to number of HD" as with the familiar. Thus psicrystals would get feats.
Sindorin 10-18-05, 12:09 AM	Heh, I just noticed something funny. The Elocater Psionic Prestige Class has a prerequisite Base Attack Bonus of +3. It also has the Spring Attack feat as a prerequisite as well. Spring Attack has a prerequisite Base Attack Bonus of +4. Silly Expanded Psionics Handbook, Base Attack Bonuses are for kids! Watch out for Ceres. That's all I have to say about that.
Luni 10-18-05, 12:49 AM	Heh, I just noticed something funny. The Elocater Psionic Prestige Class has a prerequisite Base Attack Bonus of +3. It also has the Spring Attack feat as a prerequisite as well. Spring Attack has a prerequisite Base Attack Bonus of +4. Silly Expanded Psionics Handbook, Base Attack Bonuses are for kids! Watch out for Ceres. That's all I have to say about that. You have to fulfill all of the requirements. It probably is written like that, in case a creature or class gains Spring Attack as a bonus feat.
King Uther 10-18-05, 01:44 AM	Check out the quest "Dragoncicle." The heroes just got surprised by a 15HD White Dragon, who rolled the highest initiative and used his tactical advantage to start off in great position to wreak some havoc. Not to mention both failed their will saves vs Frightful presence.
Luni 10-18-05, 08:55 AM	Check out the quest "Dragoncicle." The heroes just got surprised by a 15HD White Dragon, who rolled the highest initiative and used his tactical advantage to start off in great position to wreak some havoc. Not to mention both failed their will saves vs Frightful presence. I wish them good luck.
waywreth 10-18-05, 11:26 AM	Psionics question - If I have overchannel and use it, it lets me spend more PP. This does come out of my max PP for the fight useage right? It just allows me to spend more at one time? Example: I'm ML2. I want to manifest a ML3 Energy Ray, I do so using overchannel, and spend 3 pp out of the 4 I have available?
SoulLord 10-18-05, 11:36 AM	Psionics question - If I have overchannel and use it, it lets me spend more PP. This does come out of my max PP for the fight useage right? It just allows me to spend more at one time? Example: I'm ML2. I want to manifest a ML3 Energy Ray, I do so using overchannel, and spend 3 pp out of the 4 I have available? No if you have 5 out of 15 pp available you cannot use more than 5 without breaking the 1/3 rule. overchannel basically lets you use powers as if your manifester level was higher you can’t spend more power points on a power than your manifester level
TelinArtho 10-18-05, 12:19 PM	Check out the quest "Dragoncicle." The heroes just got surprised by a 15HD White Dragon, who rolled the highest initiative and used his tactical advantage to start off in great position to wreak some havoc. Not to mention both failed their will saves vs Frightful presence. That's nothing - Talari had to face an ettin who was crit happy... every attack against her has threatened and one actually confirmed...
One_Winged_Angel 10-18-05, 12:53 PM	Check out the quest "Dragoncicle." The heroes just got surprised by a 15HD White Dragon, who rolled the highest initiative and used his tactical advantage to start off in great position to wreak some havoc. Not to mention both failed their will saves vs Frightful presence. Try fighting two Hamatulas, Two Osyluths, and a Horned Devil at level 9 when they get a surprise round on you. Blasphame and Unholy Blight against a Neutral aligned party. What's more surprising is that we almost won. I say almost because the Horned Devil ran after we worked his underlings. And we lost two characters.
Usurpator 10-18-05, 01:20 PM	Check out the quest "Dragoncicle." The heroes just got surprised by a 15HD White Dragon, who rolled the highest initiative and used his tactical advantage to start off in great position to wreak some havoc. Not to mention both failed their will saves vs Frightful presence. I did tell TelinArtho he was mad when he suggested an EL8 quest with a Dragon in it as well, and that we were both going to die. ;) Two ECL 5 characters is equivalent to a standard 3rd lvl party of four. The DMG very wisely says about pitting a 3rd lvl party against an EL 8 encounter: "The PCs should run. If they don't, they will probably lose." And we're doing three EL8's in a row without resting in between.... :eek:
SoulLord 10-18-05, 01:29 PM	Then what are you waiting for! *impersonates Gandalf* Run you Fools!
SauroGrenom 10-18-05, 01:32 PM	I'm looking for ways that a ECL3-4 character can maximize intelligence. I've looked at all the races and the best ones only have +2 intelligence (Grey Elf +2int +2dex -4str +0LA). I was thinking about some kind of polymorph using Alter self or perhaps Metamorphosis. But these effects do not change your stats. If you have any ideas about how to maximize int, ideas are appreciated.
NiQil 10-18-05, 01:36 PM	I'm looking for ways that a ECL3-4 character can maximize intelligence. I've looked at all the races and the best ones only have +2 intelligence (Grey Elf +2int +2dex -4str +0LA). I was thinking about some kind of polymorph using Alter self or perhaps Metamorphosis. But these effects do not change your stats. If you have any ideas about how to maximize int, ideas are appreciated. If your sole concern is intelligence, start with a gray elf, boost intel all the way to 20, and then use age to bump it further....if memory serves I believe you can get +3 to int, wis and cha in exchange for -6 str, dex, and con. I could be slightly off on the numbers there, however.
Usurpator 10-18-05, 01:49 PM	Then what are you waiting for! *impersonates Gandalf* Run you Fools! Errrr, Gandalf.... the Balrog is standing between me and the exit.....
SauroGrenom 10-18-05, 01:50 PM	I just discovered the Phrenic template. Add that to a grey elf and bamm! Grey elf +4 int +2dex -4 str +2 wis +4 chr. Bonus 1pp/day and psi-like abilities that increase with HD increase as well as 10+HD power resistance. By magic psionic transparency your MR/PR is huge! All for a LA+2. Do different sources of magic resistance stack? Specifically if you have MR due to your race or template, then you get MR due to the monk class ability do these two sources of MR stack? How about MR from a spell or magic item does that stack with the other sources of MR?
Mind Rogue 10-18-05, 01:57 PM	I'm looking for ways that a ECL3-4 character can maximize intelligence. I've looked at all the races and the best ones only have +2 intelligence (Grey Elf +2int +2dex -4str +0LA). I was thinking about some kind of polymorph using Alter self or perhaps Metamorphosis. But these effects do not change your stats. If you have any ideas about how to maximize int, ideas are appreciated. 18 base (16 points), +2 Gray Elf, +2 Headband of Intellect (self crafted), +3 Venerable = 25 at level 3 for a +7 modifier. At fourth level, you bump Int again to make it 26/+8. You could also use a scroll of Fox's Cunning instead of the headband for a further +2 bonus. At third level, with greater spell focus and fox's cunning scroll, your second level spells would have a save DC of 10 +8 +2 (+2) = 20 (22). If you pick carefully, you will pretty much always have a spell that they are virtually guarenteed to fail. Blindness/Deafness (Fort), Tasha's Hideous Laughter (Will), Sleep (Will), Color Spray (Will), Shatter (Fort), and Reduce Person (Fort) all come to mind as reasonably dangerous spells. You might choose to pick up Blindness, Tasha's, and Sleep and against fighter types you hit them with Tasha's then sleep, then CdG them with Shocking Grasp or the like, while you use Blindness on the caster types then stay back and pick them off with arrows. The problem with this is that your physical attributes will go through the floor in return. The modifiers for a venerable gray elf a -8 Str, -4 Dex, -8 Con, so you won't be able to carry much in the way gear nor take much in the way of punishment. You probably would simply want to be Old so as to limit this a bit although you wouldn't get the DC increase at 4th level. This would leave you with -5 Str, -1 Dex, -5 Con, which still isn't healthy, but it at least means you don't have to put points in them just to stay alive. Assume you won't survive a blow so spend your points on Dex and forget about Con. Putting serious points into your Dex and then taking mage armor and shield or Protection from Arrows will hopefully keep you alive long enough to cast your debilitating spell. If you are planning on being a psion rather than a wizard, the same principles apply, but you'll need to pick different powers.
TelinArtho 10-18-05, 02:18 PM	I did tell TelinArtho he was mad when he suggested an EL8 quest with a Dragon in it as well, and that we were both going to die. ;) Two ECL 5 characters is equivalent to a standard 3rd lvl party of four. The DMG very wisely says about pitting a 3rd lvl party against an EL 8 encounter: "The PCs should run. If they don't, they will probably lose." And we're doing three EL8's in a row without resting in between.... :eek: Where's the confidence? Come on! Keep your spirits up... We'll do just fine. After you entangle and glue it with a tanglefoot bag and I fry it with a scorching ray or 3...
TelinArtho 10-18-05, 02:21 PM	So Vegas odds on Daeren and Nexa vs the Dragon 1:2 in the dragon's favor. Kraegin and Sdentch vs the half-celestial halfling and what I assume must be a bralani: 1:3 in the celestial's favor I think.
SauroGrenom 10-18-05, 03:00 PM	So I'm mulling this over some more. LA+2. How bad is it. How sucessfull are characters with a LA+2? Are there any examples of highly successfull characters starting out at low levels with LA+2? BTW are there any good debilitating level 1-3 powers for a psion? I'm looking for things like sleep and tasha's that have a somewhat lasting effect and make an opponent basically helpless. Entanglement is nice but not quite enough. I've found plenty that cause damage and require will saves or reflex saves nothing for fort saves though. Any ideas?
TelinArtho 10-18-05, 03:04 PM	Mini is a phrenic kobold wilder. Not sure what her record was before joining Drums of War. Crovax (heh heh) is a drow cleric - he's not had too much success... but I tend to think the drow are overrated...
NiQil 10-18-05, 03:08 PM	Personally, I would stay away from LA's altogether....+1LA at the most. I loathe level adjustments. I am of the firm believe that in most cases they actually weaken a character, rather than strengthen it. I have only ever played 1 character with a LA higher than 1....a Githzerai monk.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-18-05, 03:09 PM	So Vegas odds on Daeren and Nexa vs the Dragon 1:2 in the dragon's favor. Kraegin and Sdentch vs the half-celestial halfling and what I assume must be a bralani: 1:3 in the celestial's favor I think. Where's the confidence? Come on! Keep your spirits up... We'll do just fine. After you entangle and glue it with a tanglefoot bag and I fry it with a scorching ray or 3... Don't feel so bad. I'm in an EL 5 quest and somehow fighting a level rog3/ftr7 with almost 5x my total wealth. Vegas odds? WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE!!!! I think King if feeling a little cruel these days. He's had a rough last few weeks, and is taking it out on us. LOL LOL -ToK **EDIT Personally, I would stay away from LA's altogether....+1LA at the most. I loathe level adjustments. I am of the firm believe that in most cases they actually weaken a character, rather than strengthen it. I have only ever played 1 character with a LA higher than 1....a Githzerai monk. I Had a githzerai ftr/mnk archer type of build. He was 50/50...had some bad luck, but otherwise it was ok. As for LA+1 characters being weaker....uhm...i see someone that just went 8-0 on the roster that would claim/say otherwise. +LA's have to be used wisely. Vampire and lycanthropes are very powerful, but i havent' seen any characters out there yet that are vamps. Maybe some day. -ToK
TelinArtho 10-18-05, 03:48 PM	I'm curious how you calculated the rog3/ftr7 part... Anyway - in other news, if anyone is ever looking for an audit on a character, let me know (it can be your character or even one that is paired against you... or one that you are pitlording or one that you just want checked...). Just PM me and I'll get it done eventually. Obviously only those who are active characters can be audited.
NiQil 10-18-05, 03:51 PM	I'm curious how you calculated the rog3/ftr7 part... Anyway - in other news, if anyone is ever looking for an audit on a character, let me know (it can be your character or even one that is paired against you... or one that you are pitlording or one that you just want checked...). Just PM me and I'll get it done eventually. Obviously only those who are active characters can be audited. Let me echo that last statement...especially for characters that you have just leveled (since that is oftentimes when most mistakes are made).
Tellish_of_Ket 10-18-05, 04:07 PM	I'm curious how you calculated the rog3/ftr7 part... . Just a guess. Stats: 12, 14, 13, 16, 10, 14 He has +5 init. I'll just work without improved init for a second, because a rogue would probably have decent dex. Dex: 16+4 stat item = 20 (+5) He has +13 to hit, has 2d6 sneak dice. So lets break it down. Rogue 3 - +2bab, weapon finesse +5atk, 6 pts of bab missing...Ok...so that's ftr 6 instead of 7. +10 reflx save...base saves, +5dex, +3rog, +2ftr. So unless the ally that is fighting with me is also 9th lvl, we are dead, dead, dead. Oh yea...he has +3 base str dmg, so that means he has another stat boost item. Right there that's 20k. He has at least a +2 (cost) sword, so add another 8-10k. My total wealth is like 5k'ish. That's 6x my wealth. pretty hard to compete with that. :) Don't worry, i'll see you in the afterlife and we can toast to at least saying we did the best we can. -ToK
TelinArtho 10-18-05, 04:13 PM	@NiQil - It might be a good idea to PM each other before starting to work on an audit, since it could be a few hours from start to finish. I think you and I are probably the only ones who will do them with relative frequency. And on that note - I'm almost done with The Pale Rider...
NiQil 10-18-05, 04:17 PM	@NiQil - It might be a good idea to PM each other before starting to work on an audit, since it could be a few hours from start to finish. I think you and I are probably the only ones who will do them with relative frequency. And on that note - I'm almost done with The Pale Rider... Fine by me...I'm working on lvl 3 violations at the moment....work hasn't been very cooperative though...only have a couple put in today... Edit: That, and I have been helping my wife (my DM) build villains for her game....kinda gets ya ramped up knowing that your level 3/4 party may be running into an Ex-Paladin 6/Blackguard 2 in the near future....oye vey....
Vathelokai 10-18-05, 04:36 PM	Annoucement from RL I just found out (a couple days ago) that my wife is pregnant. This explains any flakiness you may have noticed on my part1. We've been trying to get pregno for a year now2, so it is a good thing. It is our first. I'll still be on the boards and all, but after this month, I'll have to cut down to running one quest a week.3 Despite my avatar picture, I am thrilled. 1 Especially my questers. Sorry about the slowness TAO. 2 Not as fun as it sounds, though still fun. 3 As much as I would like to be, I'm just not as hardcore as Uther or Huan.
NiQil 10-18-05, 04:40 PM	Annoucement from RL I just found out (a couple days ago) that my wife is pregnant. This explains any flakiness you may have noticed on my part1. We've been trying to get pregno for a year now2, so it is a good thing. It is our first. I'll still be on the boards and all, but after this month, I'll have to cut down to running one quest a week.3 Despite my avatar picture, I am thrilled. 1 Especially my questers. Sorry about the slowness TAO. 2 Not as fun as it sounds, though still fun. 3 As much as I would like to be, I'm just not as hardcore as Uther or Huan. Congratulations! And on that note....might I recommend you begin stockpiling extra sleep now? I guarantee you won't get any for about 3 solid months after the little one arrives....things might get somewhere close to normal at 6 months LOL.
SoulLord 10-18-05, 04:45 PM	Annoucement from RL I just found out (a couple days ago) that my wife is pregnant. This explains any flakiness you may have noticed on my part1. We've been trying to get pregno for a year now2, so it is a good thing. It is our first. I'll still be on the boards and all, but after this month, I'll have to cut down to running one quest a week.3 Despite my avatar picture, I am thrilled. 1 Especially my questers. Sorry about the slowness TAO. 2 Not as fun as it sounds, though still fun. 3 As much as I would like to be, I'm just not as hardcore as Uther or Huan. Congratulations! So when can we expect the little mini-you? I actually guessed that the announcement was going to be about you getting married :P
One_Winged_Angel 10-18-05, 04:49 PM	Then what are you waiting for! *impersonates Gandalf* Run you Fools! I thought it was "Fly you fools!" Granted, against a dragon, staying firmly rooted to the ground might be a good idea.
TelinArtho 10-18-05, 05:12 PM	Annoucement from RL I just found out (a couple days ago) that my wife is pregnant. This explains any flakiness you may have noticed on my part1. We've been trying to get pregno for a year now2, so it is a good thing. It is our first. I'll still be on the boards and all, but after this month, I'll have to cut down to running one quest a week.3 Despite my avatar picture, I am thrilled. 1 Especially my questers. Sorry about the slowness TAO. 2 Not as fun as it sounds, though still fun. 3 As much as I would like to be, I'm just not as hardcore as Uther or Huan. Congratulations to you sir. I've got two of my own - so believe me when I tell you that they can be great! Good luck and let us know when the little tike/tikette gets his/her first set of dice.
Vathelokai 10-18-05, 05:17 PM	So when can we expect the little mini-you? I actually guessed that the announcement was going to be about you getting married :P Doctors say June 12. Can't trust doctors though.
Snommelp 10-18-05, 05:19 PM	My congratulations as well, Vathelokai. As a wise old man of 20 years, I can say with some authority that children are indeed a blessing. Get sleep while you can, though. I babysat my infant cousin once, didn't sleep a wink.
Vathelokai 10-18-05, 05:20 PM	Congratulations to you sir. I've got two of my own - so believe me when I tell you that they can be great! Good luck and let us know when the little tike/tikette gets his/her first set of dice. I do believe Amy would murder me in my sleep if I gave them some dice. :D Not that she's against me playing games, but she dosn't care much for them. More of a monopolytm type.
NiQil 10-18-05, 05:22 PM	I do believe Amy would murder me in my sleep if I gave them some dice. :D Not that she's against me playing games, but she dosn't care much for them. More of a monopolytm type. Heh...compromise....start with Mini's LOL. Would be adorable to see the little one sucking it's thumb while holding a unicorn mini in the other LOL.
One_Winged_Angel 10-18-05, 06:39 PM	I do believe Amy would murder me in my sleep if I gave them some dice. :D Not that she's against me playing games, but she dosn't care much for them. More of a monopolytm type. First off, congratulations. It's gotta be amazing finding out you're gonna be a father. I'm all of 18 years of age, a nerd, and trying not to date until later, so I don't know what it's like, but I'm sure it's exciting. Yah, I don't know why, but most females I know are against gaming. May explain my singleness. Bah. My best friend (a fine young lady, I might add) keeps telling me girls will ruin my life. Still, nothing wrong with introducing fanatasy into the play. And from there may lead... Not to change the topic, but I've got a new character posted, Wraith (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5195030&postcount=137). Would someone mind scanning him. He's my first wizard build in quite a while, so any input would be nice. +LA's have to be used wisely. Vampire and lycanthropes are very powerful, but i havent' seen any characters out there yet that are vamps. Maybe some day. -ToK I've actually got a vamp. character ready for when I get the credits. The only issue is that you need 5 HD before you can become a vampire. Otherwise, they just turn into spawn. So, when you see a seemingly weak character designed by me, you might wanna follow him.
NiQil 10-18-05, 06:45 PM	But for now, it's all accorind to copacetic according my favourite Auditor, TelinArtho. :D :D -ToK Yanno...them's fightin' words where I come from. But I see how it is.....always pickin' on the fat kid. :weep:
SoulLord 10-18-05, 07:10 PM	Well actually my wife never knew of role playing until she met me :) Now she has a little wizard lvl 6 who loves to use a fireball when the situation warrants it..... or not. So my advise get a girl and introduce her to rp. the family that rp's together stay together :P
Guildmaster (TLT) 10-18-05, 07:27 PM	Congrats Valthelokai! I'd recommend getting extra sleep now as well.
Vathelokai 10-18-05, 11:23 PM	Well actually my wife never knew of role playing until she met me :) Now she has a little wizard lvl 6 who loves to use a fireball when the situation warrants it..... or not. So my advise get a girl and introduce her to rp. the family that rp's together stay together :P She had a little brother who was into Magic and D&D. She hated it. When we got together she was confused as to why I liked it, and eventually tried it. Now she kind of gets it, but she still dosn't like the game. I figure it's like brussle sprouts; you should try them at least, and if you don't like it, then stay away from it. At least she's fine with me playing.
SauroGrenom 10-19-05, 01:09 AM	Vathelokai, Congratulations! Glad to hear the good news.
SauroGrenom 10-19-05, 01:22 AM	I'm trying to put together an unstopable caster or psion build based upon crazy high intelligence stats that result in lots of bonus spells/pp and high save DC's for the spells/powers. Inorder to accomplish the goal, I will end with a character with low HP and I want to make sure that he doesn't get torn to pieces. From what I've been able to put together so far, the choice of powers and/or spells will be critical. Looking at the powers available in lower levels to psions I see that they have lots of direct damage spells that have unusual saves such as fort and will. What psions lack is powers like spectral hand and sleep, that allow them to function from a distance or to render there opponents helpless. So, I'm wondering what the experts here think of splitting the class levles half and half into wizard and psion. Will I end up with a mediocre wizard and a unimpressive psion? What powers do you suggest for low level low hp psions to use in the Arena?
One_Winged_Angel 10-19-05, 01:33 AM	I'm trying to put together an unstopable caster or psion build based upon crazy high intelligence stats that result in lots of bonus spells/pp and high save DC's for the spells/powers. Inorder to accomplish the goal, I will end with a character with low HP and I want to make sure that he doesn't get torn to pieces. From what I've been able to put together so far, the choice of powers and/or spells will be critical. Looking at the powers available in lower levels to psions I see that they have lots of direct damage spells that have unusual saves such as fort and will. What psions lack is powers like spectral hand and sleep, that allow them to function from a distance or to render there opponents helpless. So, I'm wondering what the experts here think of splitting the class levles half and half into wizard and psion. Will I end up with a mediocre wizard and a unimpressive psion? What powers do you suggest for low level low hp psions to use in the Arena? Simply put, Vigor. Buy a ML5 stone of vigor, you've got yourself 25 hp to go on. :) Otherwise, you're going to want to pay attention to spells/powers that focus on killing ONE PERSON AT A TIME!!! This is general advice to all casters as well. Fireball and lightning bolt are not the spells to do this. Phantasmal killer, color spray, and anything else that targets a single individual are. Power wise, telepaths have a few nasty tricks with crisis of breath. Also note that kenetisists can do massive damage with rays/missiles. However, never underestimate the power of telepaths and necromancers. Lower levels, like all the builds similar in structure, are the most dangerous. Vigor is a good way of avoiding this. Scrolls, scrolls, and scrolls. Powerstones, powerstones, powerstones. Buy them, use them, and love them. Don't be afraid of the potions as well.
Pittbull 10-19-05, 03:30 AM	Doctors say June 12. Can't trust doctors though. Congrats, of course you can trust doctors!!! ;)
Tellish_of_Ket 10-19-05, 05:37 AM	I'm trying to put together an unstopable caster or psion build based upon crazy high intelligence stats that result in lots of bonus spells/pp and high save DC's for the spells/powers. Inorder to accomplish the goal, I will end with a character with low HP and I want to make sure that he doesn't get torn to pieces. From what I've been able to put together so far, the choice of powers and/or spells will be critical. Looking at the powers available in lower levels to psions I see that they have lots of direct damage spells that have unusual saves such as fort and will. What psions lack is powers like spectral hand and sleep, that allow them to function from a distance or to render there opponents helpless. So, I'm wondering what the experts here think of splitting the class levles half and half into wizard and psion. Will I end up with a mediocre wizard and a unimpressive psion? What powers do you suggest for low level low hp psions to use in the Arena? You mean someone like this? Memorex :D If you want really really high, go with a venerable, phrenic cleric with madness/magic domain. Take focus/greater focus:necro, tatoo focus: necro. Cast fly, zip around and zap them with powerful inflict spells. Hold person will still be very viable as it will still have a very high DC without the focus pumping. When you get harm, all beware. So fly, hold person, CDG with inflict. If he's immune to HP, touch of madness is very good. Later you can actually rage, you get phantasmal killer as well. Plus with access to magic domain and a decent intelligence, you'll have access to other good dmg dealing spells. Never understimate the power of bestow curse, and blindness/deafness. Both 3rd lvl cleric, necromantic spells. Hope this helps give you some ideas. -ToK
SoulLord 10-19-05, 09:30 AM	She had a little brother who was into Magic and D&D. She hated it. When we got together she was confused as to why I liked it, and eventually tried it. Now she kind of gets it, but she still dosn't like the game. I figure it's like brussle sprouts; you should try them at least, and if you don't like it, then stay away from it. At least she's fine with me playing. aaaaa the good times of Magic I liked it before they started banning expansions. It was like what do you mean I can't use my mirror universe anymore!. Some people just don't like role playing for example the girlfriend of a good buddy of mine dislikes D&D but nevertheless she has no problems slaying things left and right in WoW
TelinArtho 10-19-05, 11:21 AM	@all - I should be open to do a few quests next week (10/26) if anyone is interested, since Talari and The Gatekeeper should be done by then. And just for the record - I've now gone 2 weeks without killing a questor, though not for lack of trying with an Ettin who got crit happy and a dretch cleric who just loves to cause the Gatekeeper trouble...
NiQil 10-19-05, 11:33 AM	@all - I should be open to do a few quests next week (10/26) if anyone is interested, since Talari and The Gatekeeper should be done by then. And just for the record - I've now gone 2 weeks without killing a questor, though not for lack of trying with an Ettin who got crit happy and a dretch cleric who just loves to cause the Gatekeeper trouble... 2 WHOLE weeks? Wow. :P Wait...did you feel that? I think the Earth reversed it's rotation. I need to lie down....I'm not well. Did someone remind the devil to buy a snowblower?
TelinArtho 10-19-05, 11:35 AM	Hey Hey Hey! No need to be trite! I'm just saying that maybe my killing ways have gone by the wayside... maybe.
NiQil 10-19-05, 12:55 PM	Normally, when throwing a weapon, you apply your strength bonus to damage. Does this apply for splash weapons as well, such as alchemist's fire or holy water (to undead) or acid?
TelinArtho 10-19-05, 12:57 PM	I'd say probably not - because they are not "thrown" attacks - they are ranged touch attacks.
NiQil 10-19-05, 01:09 PM	I'd say probably not - because they are not "thrown" attacks - they are ranged touch attacks. Ahhh good point....I'd forgotten about that...glad I asked before I made a jackass of myself LOL. I'm tinkering with a halfling or gnome fighter who uses TWF with splash weapons like acid and alchemist's fire and some poisons as his primary attacks for my IRL game.
Kaigan 10-19-05, 01:22 PM	Hey all, With the disappearance of Altari and Ellorion, I have 2 spots open in the Dawn of War campaign. If you are interested please PM me, linking you character so I can look over it. There will be a 5 credit cost as is typical for all campaigns. And don't worry you won't be starting behind, we've only been building up the story, no actually fighting yet. Thanks. Kaigan
Tellish_of_Ket 10-19-05, 01:27 PM	Ahhh good point....I'd forgotten about that...glad I asked before I made a jackass of myself LOL. I'm tinkering with a halfling or gnome fighter who uses TWF with splash weapons like acid and alchemist's fire and some poisons as his primary attacks for my IRL game. You'll have a problem with this type of build. It's a standard action to prime an alchemist fire/acid flask for throwing. And it can't be pre-buffed. This was a huge debate about whether it can or can't. It was the driving force that prevented Anna from using all her alchy-fires at once. There were many arguments that revolved around it. Obviously Cat being the biggest proponent against pre-buffing the alchy-fires, as Anna directly threatens his characters. Now that she's gone, he might sing a different tune, but he wasn't the only one against pre-buffing the priming of alchy-fires. I'm undecided, but it's very subjective and part of me accepts the fact it can't be pre-buffed because of the volatility of the substance, but then again, nothing really prevents you either. Take your pick...just beware, your pitlord/opponent might not allow you to. -ToK
TelinArtho 10-19-05, 01:28 PM	Do Armor Spikes count as weapons or armor when you make them masterwork or from another material: [Ma] Armor Spikes - 200gp or 350gp Adamantine Armor Spikes - 3050gp? or based on the type of armor? I'm assuming they are treated as weapons.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-19-05, 01:29 PM	Do Armor Spikes count as weapons or armor when you make them masterwork or from another material: [Ma] Armor Spikes - 200gp or 350gp Adamantine Armor Spikes - 3050gp? or based on the type of armor? I'm assuming they are treated as weapons. There are weapons. -ToK
TelinArtho 10-19-05, 01:32 PM	Okay - violation coming!
NiQil 10-19-05, 01:36 PM	You'll have a problem with this type of build. It's a standard action to prime an alchemist fire/acid flask for throwing. And it can't be pre-buffed. This was a huge debate about whether it can or can't. It was the driving force that prevented Anna from using all her alchy-fires at once. There were many arguments that revolved around it. Obviously Cat being the biggest proponent against pre-buffing the alchy-fires, as Anna directly threatens his characters. Now that she's gone, he might sing a different tune, but he wasn't the only one against pre-buffing the priming of alchy-fires. I'm undecided, but it's very subjective and part of me accepts the fact it can't be pre-buffed because of the volatility of the substance, but then again, nothing really prevents you either. Take your pick...just beware, your pitlord/opponent might not allow you to. -ToK No worries...this isn't something that will be introduced here....this type of character would never survive an arena setting. Strictly for home game use. Besides...there, I have an in with the DM....being she's my wife and all LOL.
Mind Rogue 10-19-05, 01:39 PM	You'll have a problem with this type of build. It's a standard action to prime an alchemist fire/acid flask for throwing. And it can't be pre-buffed. This was a huge debate about whether it can or can't. It was the driving force that prevented Anna from using all her alchy-fires at once. There were many arguments that revolved around it. Obviously Cat being the biggest proponent against pre-buffing the alchy-fires, as Anna directly threatens his characters. Now that she's gone, he might sing a different tune, but he wasn't the only one against pre-buffing the priming of alchy-fires. I'm undecided, but it's very subjective and part of me accepts the fact it can't be pre-buffed because of the volatility of the substance, but then again, nothing really prevents you either. Take your pick...just beware, your pitlord/opponent might not allow you to. -ToK Would you care to point out where it takes a standard action to prime a flask of acid or alchemist fire? I'm looking at page 128 of the PHB right now and the only thing I don't see it, so as far as I can tell, all it takes to prime it is to draw it, then it breaks open when you throw it. Oil needs to be primed in order to use it as a weapon, and that takes a full-round action. Also, as splash weapons, you could quick draw them or draw them as part of movement. Thus, that halfling firethower could be very interesting, particularly if she has two-weapon fighting and far shot.
NiQil 10-19-05, 01:48 PM	Would you care to point out where it takes a standard action to prime a flask of acid or alchemist fire? I'm looking at page 128 of the PHB right now and the only thing I don't see it, so as far as I can tell, all it takes to prime it is to draw it, then it breaks open when you throw it. Oil needs to be primed in order to use it as a weapon, and that takes a full-round action. Also, as splash weapons, you could quick draw them or draw them as part of movement. Thus, that halfling firethower could be very interesting, particularly if she has two-weapon fighting and far shot. I was about to ask the same thing. Never seen anywhere that you have to prime alchemist's fire or acid or any other item that is designed to be used as a splash weapon. I say designed because oil wasn't *designed for that purpose...it just can be. And yeah....the idea was to make a halfling fighter with the TWF feat tree along with PBS, Far Shot, Precise Shot and Rapid Shot.....and then maybe also add in the Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack and Shot on the Run....get him a mount and I can throw in Mounted Combat and Ride By Attack...turn him into a splash weapon wielder that can do strafing runs with alchemist's fire, acid, contact poisons, holy water for undead, tanglefoot bags, thunderstones, etc. Would never be a significant damage dealer, but would be a great tactical fighter....would work well in a party setting with say a rogue, a tank fighter type and a caster...
Vathelokai 10-19-05, 01:50 PM	Doctors say June 12. Can't trust doctors though.Congrats, of course you can trust doctors!!! ;)You can trust doctors for most things, but 'due dates' are plus or minus 3 weeks. Doctors always forget to mention that part.
Vathelokai 10-19-05, 01:51 PM	Hey Hey Hey! No need to be trite! I'm just saying that maybe my killing ways have gone by the wayside... maybe. I'll see about that! :D
Tellish_of_Ket 10-19-05, 01:54 PM	I was about to ask the same thing. Never seen anywhere that you have to prime alchemist's fire or acid or any other item that is designed to be used as a splash weapon. I say designed because oil wasn't *designed for that purpose...it just can be. Actually, i was wrong. It's not a standard action to prime...it's a FULL ROUND ACTION, that provokes an attack of opportunity. Hence why it was never allowed to pre-buff. PHB 141: Full Round Actions -ToK
NiQil 10-19-05, 02:07 PM	Actually, i was wrong. It's not a standard action to prime...it's a FULL ROUND ACTION, that provokes an attack of opportunity. Hence why it was never allowed to pre-buff. PHB 141: Full Round Actions -ToK I went and looked in the SRD and, sure enough, there it is...that single entry on the table. I'll be damned. Learn something new every day. Does the PHB give any explanation for the table entry? I don't have access to my PHB at the moment and the SRD doesn't mention it other than that one line on the table.
TelinArtho 10-19-05, 02:10 PM	To get back to the original question, I've found the specific text that says you don't apply strength modifiers to splash weapons. Check under Equipment: Thrown Weapons: The wielder applies his or her Strength modifier to damage dealt by thrown weapons (except for splash weapons).
SoulLord 10-19-05, 02:12 PM	Actually, i was wrong. It's not a standard action to prime...it's a FULL ROUND ACTION, that provokes an attack of opportunity. Hence why it was never allowed to pre-buff. PHB 141: Full Round Actions -ToK Interesting. I didn't notice that before even searched in the faq for errata for it but theres none. so a full round action it is.
NiQil 10-19-05, 02:14 PM	To get back to the original question, I've found the specific text that says you don't apply strength modifiers to splash weapons. Check under Equipment: Thrown Weapons: Ahhh...no wonder I couldn't find it...I was looking in the wrong place. Danke
TelinArtho 10-19-05, 02:16 PM	I've found this text under special actions in the Combat section of the SRD. It doesn't resolve the whole "Prepare to throw" full round action - it makes no mention of it: THROW SPLASH WEAPON A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact, splashing or scattering its contents over its target and nearby creatures or objects. To attack with a splash weapon, make a ranged touch attack against the target. Thrown weapons require no weapon proficiency, so you don’t take the –4 nonproficiency penalty. A hit deals direct hit damage to the target, and splash damage to all creatures within 5 feet of the target. You can instead target a specific grid intersection. Treat this as a ranged attack against AC 5. However, if you target a grid intersection, creatures in all adjacent squares are dealt the splash damage, and the direct hit damage is not dealt to any creature. (You can’t target a grid intersection occupied by a creature, such as a Large or larger creature; in this case, you’re aiming at the creature.) If you miss the target (whether aiming at a creature or a grid intersection), roll 1d8. This determines the misdirection of the throw, with 1 being straight back at you and 2 through 8 counting clockwise around the grid intersection or target creature. Then, count a number of squares in the indicated direction equal to the range increment of the throw. After you determine where the weapon landed, it deals splash damage to all creatures in adjacent squares. However, since according to this text you can just throw and the item breaks, I don't see what kind of preparation is needed.
NiQil 10-19-05, 02:16 PM	Interesting. I didn't notice that before even searched in the faq for errata for it but theres none. so a full round action it is. Yeah....and that is going to change things for a few characters that I can think of that rely on splash weapons. Especially since I have yet to see a battle where splash weapons were used that this rule was actually applied.
NiQil 10-19-05, 02:18 PM	I've found this text under special actions in the Combat section of the SRD. It doesn't resolve the whole "Prepare to throw" full round action - it makes no mention of it: However, since according to this text you can just throw and the item breaks, I don't see what kind of preparation is needed. I would agree with you in that I don't know what type of preparation would be needed....but there is no disputing the entry on the table indicating that it is a full round action to prepare to throw a splash weapon.....in the absence of any other entry contradicting it, it is valid.
NiQil 10-19-05, 02:20 PM	While perusing the FAQ about the splash weapon question, I ran across this tidbit that seems to come up every few weeks, so I thought I would throw it out there....regarding whether or not augmenting a psionic power changes it's manifester level (keeping in mind that this in no way affects our houserule on pricing of psionic items with augmentation at an increased ML): If you augment a power, is its effective power level increased? Say I manifest Mind Thrust (Expanded Psionics Handbook, page 120) at an opponent protected by a globe of invulnerability. Is it still a 1st-level power no matter how many power points I spend? An augmented power's level remains the same unless the augmentation listing specifically states otherwise. Mind thrust (a 1st-level power) can't ever pierce a globe of invulnerability (which protects against spells and powers of 4th level or less), regardless of how many power points you spend to augment mind thrust.
SauroGrenom 10-19-05, 02:44 PM	The only splash weapons I know of are acid flask, alchemists fire and oil. I haven't seen those used very often in the arena, but I haven't been around to long. Besides, the SRD states that it takes a full round action to "Prepare to throw splash weapon". The only one of the above splash weapons that is stated to require that it be prepaired is the oil flask. Oil is specifically said to be different from alchemists fire in this way. That is a nearly direct statement that there is no need to "Prepare to throw" an alchemists fire. I would like to point out the use of the word "Prepare" as opposed to "Draw" draw is used to refer to most weapons that can be put into yur hand(or whatever passes for a hand) and used. Prepare is used in this specific context to transform an oil flask into a splash weapon. It takes a full round action to make a splash weapon out of a oil flask, not to get an acid flask out of your belt pouch.
Myrridin 10-19-05, 02:50 PM	I have also thrown my name in to the Questlord ring, and would like a chance to run one. If there's enough interest, I wouldn't mind rerunning Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. Though to save my sanity, I probably wouldn't start at the beginning.
NiQil 10-19-05, 02:54 PM	I have also thrown my name in to the Questlord ring, and would like a chance to run one. If there's enough interest, I wouldn't mind rerunning Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. Though to save my sanity, I probably wouldn't start at the beginning. Do you mean questlord or campaignlord? That dungeon sounds like a campaign to me (never played it....but would be interested....heard it was fun).
SauroGrenom 10-19-05, 02:54 PM	I have also thrown my name in to the Questlord ring, and would like a chance to run one. If there's enough interest, I wouldn't mind rerunning Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. Though to save my sanity, I probably wouldn't start at the beginning. Damn, Crap, Wow, great. Ambitious aren't you? I'd love to play in the ToEE. I played the buggy computer game and loved it. I think it would be great to play it with a real DM. I might put a characte into that. Depends on how we run it. I don't often have regular large blocks of time, but I do often have a few minutes here and there that I can use to post. Related question: Do characters on quests count against your active character limit? I kind of suspect that they do but might as well ask.
NiQil 10-19-05, 02:56 PM	Damn, Crap, Wow, great. Ambitious aren't you? I'd love to play in the ToEE. I played the buggy computer game and loved it. I think it would be great to play it with a real DM. I might put a characte into that. Depends on how we run it. I don't often have regular large blocks of time, but I do often have a few minutes here and there that I can use to post. Related question: Do characters on quests count against your active character limit? I kind of suspect that they do but might as well ask. To the best of my knowledge, yes.
TelinArtho 10-19-05, 02:56 PM	Related question: Do characters on quests count against your active character limit? I kind of suspect that they do but might as well ask. Yes they do - so do characters on campaign.
Myrridin 10-19-05, 02:57 PM	Damn, Crap, Wow, great. Ambitious aren't you? I'd love to play in the ToEE. I played the buggy computer game and loved it. I think it would be great to play it with a real DM. I might put a characte into that. Depends on how we run it. I don't often have regular large blocks of time, but I do often have a few minutes here and there that I can use to post. Well, to be fair, the first time I ran it, I got about 3/4ths of the way through the moat house...maybe a little farther. Then job time, and going back to grad school really undercut the time I had, so I had to drop it. I'd run it how I did before, play by post on the board. I hoped that players could post 1-2 times a day, minimum, and allowed up to 4 players in it. I might expand to 5, but that'd be it.
Luni 10-19-05, 03:34 PM	Can I change Ashhur's alignment from neutral to neutral good? With a last name like Demonslayer, he probably should be good aligned.
NiQil 10-19-05, 03:43 PM	Can I change Ashhur's alignment from neutral to neutral good? With a last name like Demonslayer, he probably should be good aligned. You would want to post that in the blackmarket thread....it costs credits to do so if the character is already in play. From true neutral to neutral good would be a 1 step change, costing 5 credits if memory serves.
One_Winged_Angel 10-19-05, 03:53 PM	I've a question to beg of that rule: assume that we aquire a template (Werewolf, for example) and the alignment is "Always Evil" and your character was previously neutral. Does that cost additional credits on top of what you just paid to apply the template? Either way, you either change your alignment or you maintain an alignment that does not match your creature type. So then what happens?
NiQil 10-19-05, 03:59 PM	I've a question to beg of that rule: assume that we aquire a template (Werewolf, for example) and the alignment is "Always Evil" and your character was previously neutral. Does that cost additional credits on top of what you just paid to apply the template? Either way, you either change your alignment or you maintain an alignment that does not match your creature type. So then what happens? Since acquiring a template is something that must be done in a quest, the alignment change should also be able to be done as a part of that quest. Whether this would cost extra credits or not, I can't say for sure....I would think no. I asked a similar question awhile back about questing a paladin to become a blackguard and having to change my alignment from lawful good to an evil alignment and whether it would take two or one quest to do that, and was advised that it could be done in one. Based on that, I would think you would pay the credits for the quest, and then pay credits for the template, but no credits for the alignment change. But I don't know for sure.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-19-05, 04:59 PM	Can I change Ashhur's alignment from neutral to neutral good? With a last name like Demonslayer, he probably should be good aligned. But what if your job is to slay Bad demons turned Good? It does happen. -ToK
One_Winged_Angel 10-19-05, 05:04 PM	But what if your job is to slay Bad demons turned Good? It does happen. -ToK Or what about Good Celestials turned into demons? :confused: :confused: :confused:
Tellish_of_Ket 10-19-05, 05:54 PM	Or what about Good Celestials turned into demons? :confused: :confused: :confused: No...because then she'd have to justify her alignment change to good. :D Better sticking to the bad demons turned good. -ToK
SoulLord 10-19-05, 05:58 PM	well demons kill devils all the time and not for that they turn to the forces of good :)
One_Winged_Angel 10-19-05, 06:08 PM	No...because then she'd have to justify her alignment change to good. :D Better sticking to the bad demons turned good. -ToK I'm very tempted to make an amazingly circular logic argument that makes no sense at all and cannot be proven wrong and thus is unethical but somehow or another proves my point. But then I'd confuse myself. And now that we're on the subject of demons and devils, is Mr. Demonslayer going to be lawful good in order to justly uphold the name? But then he can't be prejudice and could not change his alignment to lawful because he would share alignment with devils. BUT... I'm just gonna stop there. I'm gonna confuse myself. So while I'm here, does anyone know if Temorary hit points stack or not. I went to "Rules of the Game: Does it Stack?" and temporary HP is not mentioned. But I looked at the vampire's blood drain ability and it says they gain On each such successful attack, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points. I'm none too sure, but it seems like they would gain more HP from constant blood drain. Opinions? Facts? Documents? I really tried finding rules, but they are nowhere I look.
Luni 10-19-05, 06:33 PM	You would want to post that in the blackmarket thread....it costs credits to do so if the character is already in play. From true neutral to neutral good would be a 1 step change, costing 5 credits if memory serves. Or, it would only cost me 4° to remake the character with the one small change. Essentialy, I'm pleading to our fair and glorious Pitlord Emperor to grant my request. Obviously to make ToK happy, I should change his last name to Outsiderslayer.
NiQil 10-19-05, 06:37 PM	Or, it would only cost me 4° to remake the character with the one small change. Essentialy, I'm pleading to our fair and glorious Pitlord Emperor to grant my request. Obviously to make ToK happy, I should change his last name to Outsiderslayer. You should check the Rules thread....I am not at all certain about the cost it takes to change alignment...so it very well could be less than the 5 I mentioned.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-19-05, 06:40 PM	So while I'm here, does anyone know if Temorary hit points stack or not. I went to "Rules of the Game: Does it Stack?" and temporary HP is not mentioned. But I looked at the vampire's blood drain ability and it says they gain I'm none too sure, but it seems like they would gain more HP from constant blood drain. Opinions? Facts? Documents? I really tried finding rules, but they are nowhere I look. No they do not. I'll find you the stuff needed later, but suffice to say, they do not. But that also depends on how they are gained as well. -ToK
One_Winged_Angel 10-19-05, 06:47 PM	I think (don't quote me on this...) that the reason the alignment change was implemented was for the "Always" alignment. For example, we had a player who wanted to make an Evil Pixie assassin. However, Pixies are "Always Good," so the GM(s) didn't allow it. Now, I'm guessing that we allow such a change, but it would cost creds to change the alignment. Now, who wants to go out and play a Lawful Good Succubus? Only 40 credits for the alignment change!
Snommelp 10-19-05, 08:07 PM	Now, who wants to go out and play a Lawful Good Succubus? Only 40 credits for the alignment change! Dibs! :D Actually, I think that Huan would probably be best suited for it, what with his triple-digit credits...
Sindorin 10-19-05, 08:25 PM	A gold Half Dragon Erinyes could fix the alignment problem. Always Lawful Good AND Always Lawful Evil...
Book5 10-19-05, 09:12 PM	More of this is on the Question on Comments Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7543507#post7543507) I also reposted the "round in question" there too. Ok, I guess the real meat of my question is: When _exactly_ does one become visible due to attacking when invisible? Beggining of round? After connection? Things to consider - attacking (successful or not ) will make you visible - so I lean on (violent thoughts ) beggining of action. Why does this matter - a readied action. Readied action goes _before ( *delay goes _after) the triggering action. So a readied spell would - I think, go off as soon as the charge starts (at the starting location ) not after the charger gets to the adjacent square and can take an AoO for the spell being cast. And ... assuming otherwise.. can you take an AoO on a Readied action that is preempting yours? Seeing as how the action .. had to start .. _before the readied action to trigger the readied action.. does that have any bearing? Again, my opinion is that the initiation of the attack action drops the invisibility - the spot check is a free (assuming you are looking the right way ) and the spell hits you where you started. Not mid path, and not when you stop, where you started.
TelinArtho 10-19-05, 09:25 PM	In general, readied actions go off right before the action that triggers them. So, if the ready action is to fire a magic missile on someone who starts casting a spell - bam it happens right before. I say in general because there is one exception and it really depends on the wording of the ready (and this is why it matters to be precise): If the opponent that will trigger the readied action is invisible to the readied person (not necessarily invisible, but you get my meaning), then the readied action will go off at the first opportunity for the person to take that action - usually immediately following it. The reason for this is the invisibility doesn't end until the action is performed (hence the reason you get that nifty +2 bonus to attacks when invisible). The exception to this case is if the readied person isn't readied on sight - but on sight or sound. If the readied person Hears the trigger, the ready action goes off. Hope that helps. /d
Book5 10-19-05, 09:37 PM	two combatants. both looking right at each other. One has a redied magic missle. the other invisble and initiates a charge. Missiles fly at - A: starting point B: after charge damage
One_Winged_Angel 10-19-05, 09:56 PM	two combatants. both looking right at each other. One has a redied magic missle. the other invisble and initiates a charge. Missiles fly at - A: starting point B: after charge damage B. Running is not an offensive action and thus does not end invisibility.
Book5 10-19-05, 10:07 PM	B. Running is not an offensive action and thus does not end invisibility. Yet.. is not "charge" an attack.. a special attack I'll admit but an attack as attacky as a trip. Its not a move and then an attack.. its considered one single action by the rules.
NiQil 10-19-05, 10:17 PM	Yet.. is not "charge" an attack.. a special attack I'll admit but an attack as attacky as a trip. Its not a move and then an attack.. its considered one single action by the rules. My take: A charge consists of a move and then an attack (even though it is all one full round action). If the charger is invisible, and the other has a readied action based on LOS, I would have that readied action occur after the invisible opponent has moved in to their attack square (i.e. after the move part of the charge), but before the charger takes his swing, since as soon as he initiates his swing, he would be classified as harming an opponent (as defined by the spell), and would thus be visible. So the readied action would fire after the move, but before the damage is dealt. As to your question about AoO....as long as a fighter has not taken one in that round, he still gets to take one if he is entitled to one, regardless of what action triggers the AoO.
SauroGrenom 10-19-05, 10:29 PM	Can you deliver a "Psionic Fist" attack with a grapple check while grappling for unarmed damage?
Luni 10-19-05, 10:31 PM	Can you deliver a "Psionic Fist" attack with a grapple check while grappling for unarmed damage? I'd say no. But you could make an unarmed attack to deal damage.
Book5 10-19-05, 10:32 PM	NiQil Maybe conceptually - but as far as the rules go ... "Charge" = Attack. Not move and attack. Not double move and attack. "Charge Attack" one move. One, full round, action. One Roll of the dice. Besides - if there wasnt more to it than a move and an attack - it would have been easier to say that moving full speed toward your target gives you a +2 on the next attack roll, and a -2 on your AC. Its not that way. A charge attack is a singe action that is more cohesive than a simple move and an attack. Had (in this case very possible ) the charger moved and then attacked - that would apply. But they didnt move then attack. They "Charge Attacked" one single violent thrust of bodily exertion.. ever seen lodoss war? - Parn gets a real good explanation of what a "charge" is from the desert king.
One_Winged_Angel 10-19-05, 10:45 PM	NiQil Maybe conceptually - but as far as the rules go ... "Charge" = Attack. Not move and attack. Not double move and attack. "Charge Attack" one move. One, full round, action. One Roll of the dice. Besides - if there wasnt more to it than a move and an attack - it would have been easier to say that moving full speed toward your target gives you a +2 on the next attack roll, and a -2 on your AC. Its not that way. A charge attack is a singe action that is more cohesive than a simple move and an attack. Had (in this case very possible ) the charger moved and then attacked - that would apply. But they didnt move then attack. They "Charge Attacked" one single violent thrust of bodily exertion.. ever seen lodoss war? - Parn gets a real good explanation of what a "charge" is from the desert king. Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll. and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn. The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. (Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character’s perceptions.) Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area. So here's my take: the character who is invisible can do everything in his power to do stuff to the other character up until he actually physically or magically strikes him.
Iced 10-20-05, 12:52 AM	If anyone's looking for a questlord, I just finished Fangs of Evil and am available for another quest.
Usurpator 10-20-05, 02:59 AM	Invisibility does not check intention, it checks action. If you charge someone, but fall into a pit halfway during the charge, you have never attacked, and will still be invisible, despite your intention. My classical example: two archers, one invisible, the other visible. The visible archer readies a shot as soon as he sees his opponent. The invisible archer draws his bowstring and launches the arrow at his visible opponent, thereby turning visible. What happens? Obviously, it is impossible for the readied archer's arrow to arrive before the arrow of the invisible archer. Even if the readied archer was aiming at exactly the right spot, the time to release his bowstring and the travel time of the arrow will always be greater than the travel time of the arrow coming at him. The readied archer cannot also shoot 'just before' the other archer fires, because the archer will still be invisible. If the invisible archer turns somehow visible 'just before he shoots', there would be the possibility that the visible archer kills him before he can release his arrow, thus causing the invisible archer never to have executed an attack, and thus never leaving invisibility. Which is obviously impossible. In short: you can't interrupt the action of an invisible opponent by readying on him turning visible. If you ready an action contingent on someone turning visible, it means that the action of your opponent that negated the invisibility will already have been completed.
SoulLord 10-20-05, 09:50 AM	two combatants. both looking right at each other. One has a redied magic missle. the other invisble and initiates a charge. Missiles fly at - A: starting point B: after charge damage Results of that particular action. A will charge and attack B since it's invisible B starts to cast at A triggering an AoO unless caster took the precaution to specify a cast defensively. A Takes his AoO due to B casting B finishes casting spell at A.
Book5 10-20-05, 10:33 AM	In short: you can't interrupt the action of an invisible opponent by readying on him turning visible. If you ready an action contingent on someone turning visible, it means that the action of your opponent that negated the invisibility will already have been completed. OK, but its the example that really clinches it. I can argue that a failed attack still makes you visible... but I have a hard time saying that the charge that fails because of a pit trap makes you visible. I almost want to though. I could "see it" :rolleyes: what with some of the arconistics in the srd20.
NiQil 10-20-05, 11:16 AM	Anyone want to do me a huge favor and download the new FAQ, unzip it, and then email it to me? My computer for some reason won't unzip it, and I don't have any unzipping programs on my computer at work.
Snommelp 10-20-05, 11:19 AM	Note: my dorm internet connection is being uppity. I'm posting from the University Union right now.
Sindorin 10-20-05, 11:38 AM	Jetzt bin ich im meine Deutsch Klasse schreiben!!!
SoulLord 10-20-05, 12:16 PM	Anyone want to do me a huge favor and download the new FAQ, unzip it, and then email it to me? My computer for some reason won't unzip it, and I don't have any unzipping programs on my computer at work. Items of note in the changes. Improved natural attack can be used on monks. Some interesting used of quickdraw ex; bab 6+ attack drop greatsword, quickdraw bow and attack with remaining attack
TelinArtho 10-20-05, 01:51 PM	Here's an interesting question: Can you quest to have an item enchanted? For instance, Daeren, after his current quest is finished, crafts an Adamantine Longspear. He then wants to have it enchanted to +1, and bane vs. Dragons (8000gp market price). Can he quest to do various favors for the crafter (earning 8000gp on the quest as an EL6)? Or would he have to quest for the whole item himself (which would knock it up to an EL6+ quest)?
Tellish_of_Ket 10-20-05, 01:56 PM	Here's an interesting question: Can you quest to have an item enchanted? For instance, Daeren, after his current quest is finished, crafts an Adamantine Longspear. He then wants to have it enchanted to +1, and bane vs. Dragons (8000gp market price). Can he quest to do various favors for the crafter (earning 8000gp on the quest as an EL6)? Or would he have to quest for the whole item himself (which would knock it up to an EL6+ quest)? Isn't an EL 6 quest 8000gp? 2000gpx3+1/3=8000gp? -ToK
TelinArtho 10-20-05, 02:00 PM	Yes, but here's the thing: [Ma] Longspear: 309gp +1 enhancement: 2000gp Bane enhancement: 6000gp Total: 8309gp Or make it adamantine (just to make sure it isn't sundered easily...): 11309gp. Whereas, he could spend a week to craft it with his own two hands and then have someone enchant it for fulfilling a meaningful quest.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-20-05, 02:20 PM	Yes, but here's the thing: [Ma] Longspear: 309gp +1 enhancement: 2000gp Bane enhancement: 6000gp Total: 8309gp Or make it adamantine (just to make sure it isn't sundered easily...): 11309gp. Whereas, he could spend a week to craft it with his own two hands and then have someone enchant it for fulfilling a meaningful quest. On your current quest though you will have enough GP to make your adamantine Longspear correct? 3309? So, all your adding is the enchantment bonuses worth 8000gp. I don't see the problem. -ToK
King Uther 10-20-05, 02:29 PM	Basically you could storyline wise do things for the crafter, but in the end it would be the same as just buying it.
SoulLord 10-20-05, 05:02 PM	How Much money will the guild earn the first week after being created? 10% of gladiators fighting in the arena income -48 structure Upkeep + ??? -??? -upkeep Chapter House. Basic Living Quarters, 12 Kitchen 12 Bathroom 12 Servant Quarters 12 total 48
SauroGrenom 10-20-05, 05:16 PM	I think we are waiting a bit before the guilds get started. Cat mentioned something about waiting until November before officially starting because he wants to track the first few weeks of all the guilds activities. There was something about it in his last post over in the council thread. And as far as I know then your calculations are mostly right. There is some cost associated with the wages of the staff and also I don't think you need to pay upkeep on the first guild hall. I asked Cat if guilds get any start up money, and the answer is no.
Luni 10-21-05, 12:00 AM	I'd like to announce that TelinArtho, doesn't kill all of his questers. Go read Defiler in Jindl Forest (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=513771). Started off very hard, and ended very easy. :D Go Telin! Aside: I'm willing to Questlord for someone if they want.
SauroGrenom 10-21-05, 12:30 AM	Does the magic psionics transparency allow those with craft psionic item to make the psionic equivalent of +stat items like gloves of ogre strength and belts of giant strength?
Iced 10-21-05, 01:31 AM	looking for interested questers...;)
King Uther 10-21-05, 01:44 AM	ToK and myself are looking for a Q-Lord who can handle to EL16 characters, and make it very challenging. Highly story-based, with a good mix of strong combat encounters.
King Uther 10-21-05, 02:00 AM	Not sure where to post this, but Nexa's power points accidentally got added to. After only 6 victories, she has amassed an amazing 1682 base points. [What actually happened is an accidental adding of 1000.]
Myrridin 10-21-05, 11:00 AM	@King Uther & ToK: I'll throw my ring in to the hat for the EL 16 Quest. I've got plenty of experience running games, as well as Pitlording, and would love the chance to slap around...err....Questlord for such mighty characters.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-21-05, 11:09 AM	@King Uther & ToK: I'll throw my ring in to the hat for the EL 16 Quest. I've got plenty of experience running games, as well as Pitlording, and would love the chance to slap around...err....Questlord for such mighty characters. Your application has been duely noted. -ToK
TelinArtho 10-21-05, 11:46 AM	@King and Tok - I think I can handle a quest of that level. Please throw my hat into the ring for consideration.
nightbanegod 10-21-05, 12:04 PM	ok so the madness domain applies a penalty to wisdom for any ROLLS other than prepairing spells and spell DC.... howabout the monks wisdom to AC mod... is madness a penalty to AC for that? *edit* ECL 16 O.o ..... whoa.... what exactly are you guys planning on doing and or characters to be made?!?!?!
Caterane 10-21-05, 12:19 PM	Not sure where to post this, but Nexa's power points accidentally got added to. After only 6 victories, she has amassed an amazing 1682 base points. [What actually happened is an accidental adding of 1000.] The average you get is 100 per win, for 600 after 6 wins. Apparently she has won against tougher foes, or won one of the old All vs All matches.
Dracazar 10-21-05, 12:19 PM	Hi to all, i'm just a newcomer of CoCo, is this the right place to say hello? :D I would parteciapate with a new character asap, give me some hints (just finished to read the rules). Ciao.
TelinArtho 10-21-05, 12:22 PM	@Dracazar - welcome to the CoCo - and yes this is the right place to say hello. In order to participate in an arena fight, all you need to do is: 1. Create an ECL3 character (according to the rules) and post it to the Characters of Gladius thread. 2. Set the title of the post to "Ready for Oct26, 2005" 3. PM "Pitlords" with the link to the character. Then you need to wait until Wednesday to be paired. /d
TelinArtho 10-21-05, 12:38 PM	I'd like to announce that TelinArtho, doesn't kill all of his questers. Go read Defiler in Jindl Forest (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=513771). Started off very hard, and ended very easy. :D Go Telin! Aside: I'm willing to Questlord for someone if they want. With Iced's The Gatekeeper successfully finishing his quest in fine fashion - that puts me at 3 completions and 3 PC kills. Hey 50% isn't bad right? Well the first quest was with 2 PCs - so that should count extra!
TelinArtho 10-21-05, 01:21 PM	Use Magic Device - if you use this skill to activate a wand or a scroll and fail - does it use up the charge/scroll? Also, what is your effective CL when activating a scroll or is the roll assumed to take the place of the CL check?
Enterik 10-21-05, 01:24 PM	...is it possible to attempt a melee touch for a grab (grappling) and if success discharge an inflict light wounds upon said target whether or not the grapple is successful?
nightbanegod 10-21-05, 01:26 PM	ok so the madness domain applies a penalty to wisdom for any ROLLS other than prepairing spells and spell DC.... howabout the monks wisdom to AC mod... is madness a penalty to AC for that? *edit* ECL 16 O.o ..... whoa.... what exactly are you guys planning on doing and or characters to be made?!?!?! in addition to this ... does a tattoo of animal afinity have to be specefied?
nightbanegod 10-21-05, 01:45 PM	Use Magic Device - if you use this skill to activate a wand or a scroll and fail - does it use up the charge/scroll? Also, what is your effective CL when activating a scroll or is the roll assumed to take the place of the CL check? yeah the roll takes the place of the caster level check... since a caster level check is essentially a roll in and of itself to determine if you can get the item to activate... same roll 2x for a rogue would be dumb but you would need to make multiple UMD checks if you dont have the appropriate ability score or alignment
NiQil 10-21-05, 02:06 PM	in addition to this ... does a tattoo of animal afinity have to be specefied? I would assume, since things like Energy Missile/Push, etc do not have to be specified, this one wouldn't either. Then again, we all know what assumptions are....
nightbanegod 10-21-05, 02:13 PM	I would assume, since things like Energy Missile/Push, etc do not have to be specified, this one wouldn't either. Then again, we all know what assumptions are.... if thats the case then.... potions of +4 x ability score are a waste now... now you can get tattoo's of any ability score you need at a given time and its weightless... sadly i dont think you can have animal affinity operating at the same time twice for 2 different ability scrores.... or does it overlap if activated twice?
Tellish_of_Ket 10-21-05, 02:21 PM	Use Magic Device - if you use this skill to activate a wand or a scroll and fail - does it use up the charge/scroll? Also, what is your effective CL when activating a scroll or is the roll assumed to take the place of the CL check? Not necessarily. You have to have a mishap for that to happen. The CL of the scroll is what it is. Magic Missile [CL5], is at caster level 5. No, no caster level check is needed and activating with UMD. ...is it possible to attempt a melee touch for a grab (grappling) and if success discharge an inflict light wounds upon said target whether or not the grapple is successful? Yup. But if that cleric doesn't have improved unarmed strike, they still suffer an AoO when trying to grab a hold, and if the AoO is successful in dealing dmg to the cleric, the grapple stops immediately. -ToK
TelinArtho 10-21-05, 02:34 PM	For tattoos, like potions, you need to have all of the specifications specified. For instance, Potion of Resist Energy - can only protect you against one type of energy and it must be specified at creation/purchase time. Same thing with a tattoo of [Psionic equivalent power] - you must specify. A tattoo of Energy Missile is not a very good power to use - but it would also need to be specified before hand. /d
NiQil 10-21-05, 02:45 PM	For tattoos, like potions, you need to have all of the specifications specified. For instance, Potion of Resist Energy - can only protect you against one type of energy and it must be specified at creation/purchase time. Same thing with a tattoo of [Psionic equivalent power] - you must specify. A tattoo of Energy Missile is not a very good power to use - but it would also need to be specified before hand. /d See....I told ya....assumption is the mother of all eff-ups.
Enterik 10-21-05, 02:47 PM	Originally Posted by Enterik ...is it possible to attempt a melee touch for a grab (grappling) and if success discharge an inflict light wounds upon said target whether or not the grapple is successful? Yup. But if that cleric doesn't have improved unarmed strike, they still suffer an AoO when trying to grab a hold, and if the AoO is successful in dealing dmg to the cleric, the grapple stops immediately. -ToK What about a Natural Attack and/or Improved Grapple feat?
waywreth 10-21-05, 02:54 PM	A tattoo of Energy Missile is not a very good power to use - but it would also need to be specified before hand. /d Wouldn't a tattoo of Energy missle end up damaging the wearer if it wasn't crawling? Also - does this apply to powerstones? So would my powerstone of "energy ray" have to specify?
TelinArtho 10-21-05, 02:57 PM	That's why I said it wasn't a very good power to use... Powerstones are like scrolls, so none of the specifications need to be made ahead of time. You can have a scroll of Resist Energy and specify the energy type when you read it - same thing with the equivalent powerstone. Tattoos are really not as viable as potions for many reasons (in general they cost double that of potions), but they are useful because they duplicate things that can't be made into potions (like Force Screen vs Shield or Skate vs Exp Retreat).
Tellish_of_Ket 10-21-05, 02:58 PM	What about a Natural Attack and/or Improved Grapple feat? Well, if he has a natural weapon, then of course. -ToK
Enterik 10-21-05, 03:13 PM	Can a cleric kill a chicken and then cast death knell upon it? 1d8 temporary hit point, +2 Str, +1 caster Level for at least 25 rounds. Is it too cheesy for the arena?
Tellish_of_Ket 10-21-05, 03:15 PM	Can a cleric kill a chicken and then cast death knell upon it? 1d8 temporary hit point, +2 Str, +1 caster Level for at least 25 rounds. Is it too cheesy for the arena? It's been tried before. Whatever you bring into the arena, you need to pay for it, or acquire it somehow...then it will count against your ally total for the fight (because it played a part in it). So, it's not worth it. -ToK
TelinArtho 10-21-05, 03:30 PM	Can a cleric kill a chicken and then cast death knell upon it? 1d8 temporary hit point, +2 Str, +1 caster Level for at least 25 rounds. Is it too cheesy for the arena? I looked into it myself - but it wouldn't be that good to use a chicken (it would last 12 rounds, not 25 because a chicken has 1/8HD). Much better to use something that has at least 1/2HD (5 minutes) - but you are still going to have to use 2 spell levels for the fight on that buff. You could cast Bull's Strength and get a +4 on Str and the +1 caster level is only going to matter (for the most part) for people who use a lot of summons (and since I've got 3 active summoners and 2 inactive - I guess I qualify). Still its probably not worth it. You are allowed to try though...
nightbanegod 10-21-05, 03:37 PM	what skill at what rank do you need for free arrows... mundane i know but hey if ive already got the prereqs for crafting arrows from the wild then why pay?
One_Winged_Angel 10-21-05, 03:38 PM	It's been tried before. Whatever you bring into the arena, you need to pay for it, or acquire it somehow...then it will count against your ally total for the fight (because it played a part in it). So, it's not worth it. -ToK Perhaps if you used an extended spell and were sufficently high level and used a high HD character to cast it as a prebuff. I don't really see it as being worth it, however...
TelinArtho 10-21-05, 03:39 PM	Craft-Bowmaking - with a bonus equal to DC to craft-10. The DC is not listed in the SRD, but I think it is either 15 or 12 (don't quote me on that...).
nightbanegod 10-21-05, 04:01 PM	Craft-Bowmaking - with a bonus equal to DC to craft-10. The DC is not listed in the SRD, but I think it is either 15 or 12 (don't quote me on that...). so my +10 bowmaking craft skill is probably more than enough to assure myself free arrows... all i was looking for thanks... howabout masterwork arrows? or does a masterwork arrow stack with a masterwork bow?
TelinArtho 10-21-05, 04:02 PM	[Ma] Arrows have a +1 enh bonus to hit; [Ma] Bows similarly have a +1 enh bonus that it bestows to its arrows. Since Enhancement bonuses do not stack - no they would have no additional benefit.
NiQil 10-21-05, 04:05 PM	so my +10 bowmaking craft skill is probably more than enough to assure myself free arrows... all i was looking for thanks... howabout masterwork arrows? or does a masterwork arrow stack with a masterwork bow? Keep in mind that the arrows aren't free....just half-price.
TelinArtho 10-21-05, 04:18 PM	Anyone care to look over my latest creation? Tanglewood Breeze (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7559170&postcount=505)
NiQil 10-21-05, 04:29 PM	Anyone care to look over my latest creation? Tanglewood Breeze (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7559170&postcount=505) Nothing jumped out at me as being in error....but there are several silvered entries that appear to be random....might want to clean those up...I noticed them starting after where you have the drow poison listed.
TelinArtho 10-21-05, 04:33 PM	Those are just my standard subtotals... they don't really apply now, but they will shortly after my first few fights.
Usurpator 10-21-05, 05:14 PM	The average you get is 100 per win, for 600 after 6 wins. Apparently she has won against tougher foes, or won one of the old All vs All matches. Except for Zassl, Nexa got paired against above average foes (among them gladiators that were previously only defeated by Balbanes) and also won an all vs. all fight. But I doubt that 1682 is correct, and I think ToK made a typing error when he updated her record last time and it actually should be 1582. That is also what I ranked her at in the Gladius Weeky, otherwise she should be at spot 3 instead of spot 5. I know Nexa is good, but that good? ;)
King Uther 10-21-05, 05:19 PM	@Cat Actually 100 is not an average for a win. The more you win, the less you get generally. Balbanes is 9-1, has won a free-for-all, and beaten 4 or more opponents who were previously unbeaten just to increase his ranking more. @Usurp You're right. I brought it up so there wouldn't be any cry of foul later on.
Gonbow 10-21-05, 05:27 PM	Hmm. I think I just managed to make Lortavos a little more viable... Or does anyone see a problem with him using a Hand of the Mage to Mage Hand potions into his mouth? ;) Sheet is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7025033&postcount=430). Assuming he manages to win his next fight, he could be leveling next week! Any suggestions on a class? I was leaning towards Barbarian or Psychic Warrior (Don't /think/ I can use powerstones via Mage Hand... but maybe? ^_^).
SoulLord 10-21-05, 05:42 PM	I would suggest either fighter to get decent hp +1 bab and a feat (improved grapple?) or barbarian lots of hp, rage & faster movement.
TaggIIV 10-21-05, 05:57 PM	hey everyone. (have many drastic rule changes taken place in the last 4 months?)
Tellish_of_Ket 10-21-05, 06:40 PM	Except for Zassl, Nexa got paired against above average foes (among them gladiators that were previously only defeated by Balbanes) and also won an all vs. all fight. But I doubt that 1682 is correct, and I think ToK made a typing error when he updated her record last time and it actually should be 1582. That is also what I ranked her at in the Gladius Weeky, otherwise she should be at spot 3 instead of spot 5. I know Nexa is good, but that good? ;) Ya, i made a few errors with the power ratings at the beginning. I didn't know who all i messed up, but there were quite a few. I got them bang on in the second week though. Sadly, errors were carried over. <sheepish look> -ToK
Caterane 10-22-05, 02:48 AM	I am very happy to announce that the Elder titles were finally changed to their intended status. Even Huan's "UnCon Prizewinner" is still in place! Likewise, the Guildlords avatar is uploaded. All thanks to the new GM Forum the WizO's created. I am very optimistic that other changes in the future will be handled more quickly.
Vathelokai 10-22-05, 03:13 AM	Hmm. I think I just managed to make Lortavos a little more viable... Or does anyone see a problem with him using a Hand of the Mage to Mage Hand potions into his mouth? ;)I've been asking about that all week and can't get a definitive answer.
King Uther 10-22-05, 03:25 AM	This is another plug for a Questlord. A new character I am designing, Kelek's long-lost brother, isgoing on a mini next week to diplomacy himself an Elder Air Elemental, then the week after going on a quest with Kelek to defeat an Emperor. As the questlord for this, I have a lot of expectations. My build is still in the early stages, but Agaroth (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7554869&postcount=504) will havea 50+ AC, 170+hp, and have a wealth of options available to him as he can polymorph infinite times per day, and use Supernatural attacks via the metamorphic transfer feat. What I desire from the questlord: 1. Extremely challenging encounters that still remain in the EL. 2. Good story development. 3. Can handle 2 excellently prepared and strong ECL16 characters with cohorts. I also need a questlord to watch me kill the elemental. PM me or ToK with any interest.
Luni 10-22-05, 03:53 AM	This is another plug for a Questlord. A new character I am designing, Kelek's long-lost brother, isgoing on a mini next week to diplomacy himself an Elder Air Elemental, then the week after going on a quest with Kelek to defeat an Emperor. As the questlord for this, I have a lot of expectations. My build is still in the early stages, but Agaroth (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7554869&postcount=504) will havea 50+ AC, 170+hp, and have a wealth of options available to him as he can polymorph infinite times per day, and use Supernatural attacks via the metamorphic transfer feat. What I desire from the questlord: 1. Extremely challenging encounters that still remain in the EL. 2. Good story development. 3. Can handle 2 excellently prepared and strong ECL16 characters with cohorts. I also need a questlord to watch me kill the elemental. PM me or ToK with any interest. I'm curious how you are going to get the ML of 15 for the Metamorphisis to change into the Horned Devil. Wait, I think I figured it out. You have the suit made by a 15th level psion [becuase it doesn't cost extra], so you can metamorph into a Horned Devil.
Dracazar 10-22-05, 08:56 AM	Hi to all, a simple Craft question. Where I look (book and page) for craft dc for various items? Example: what is the craft dc for a adamantine longsword? On Rules i read that adamantine greatsword would have a craft DC of 20, why? On PHB i read: Martial melee or thrown weapon Weaponsmithing 15 Thanks
nightbanegod 10-22-05, 09:01 AM	hey everyone. (have many drastic rule changes taken place in the last 4 months?) LOL ... a few.... in any event... does the dwarves racial bonus that conditionally applies against spells on saves apply if something he holds is making a save and uses his bonus in regards to the spell... the dwarf isnt being targeted by the spell. the item is... so i would argue that the dwarves racial bonus isnt applied to the total save bonus for the item... any comments?
nightbanegod 10-22-05, 09:03 AM	Hi to all, a simple Craft question. Where I look (book and page) for craft dc for various items? Example: what is the craft dc for a adamantine longsword? On Rules i read that adamantine greatsword would have a craft DC of 20, why? On PHB i read: Martial melee or thrown weapon Weaponsmithing 15 Thanks look on page 71 of the PHB for crafting weapons and see that masterwork items always have a DC of 20 .... then look on page 283 of the DMG and see that adamantine weapons are always crafted as masterwork... theres your answer
nightbanegod 10-22-05, 09:23 AM	ok so the madness domain applies a penalty to wisdom for any ROLLS other than prepairing spells and spell DC.... howabout the monks wisdom to AC mod... is madness a penalty to AC for that? any help with this?
sloisel 10-22-05, 10:02 AM	any help with this? Monk wisdom to AC isn't a spellcasting purpose, so a cleric/monk with the madness domain uses his lower wisdom score for that monk ability. Sébastien Loisel
Book5 10-22-05, 10:25 AM	any help with this? Technically - Yes. The save applies to the character. The item gets the character's save. If you really really really think other wise - you can always apply a -2 circumstancial modifier. Personally I think it makes as much sense as applying your class save. The dohicky aint 8th level whatever, you are saving your personal equipment in that case - and as such you use the listed bonus for ... you.
TaggIIV 10-22-05, 10:28 AM	Can the intelligent bonuses be added to an existing magical item (ie, owning a +1 sword and later purchasing intelligent attributes) or does it have to be intelligent from creation?
sloisel 10-22-05, 10:29 AM	LOL ... a few.... in any event... does the dwarves racial bonus that conditionally applies against spells on saves apply if something he holds is making a save and uses his bonus in regards to the spell... the dwarf isnt being targeted by the spell. the item is... so i would argue that the dwarves racial bonus isnt applied to the total save bonus for the item... any comments? An attended item uses the holder's saves if they are better than the item's, stats, bonuses and all. Sébastien Loisel
TelinArtho 10-22-05, 12:59 PM	Can the intelligent bonuses be added to an existing magical item (ie, owning a +1 sword and later purchasing intelligent attributes) or does it have to be intelligent from creation? Intelligent items can only be gained through questing and you don't get the option to fully specify the abilities. As such, I think you would have to quest for the entire item, rather than the improvements to the item. /d
TelinArtho 10-22-05, 01:52 PM	This is another plug for a Questlord. A new character I am designing, Kelek's long-lost brother, isgoing on a mini next week to diplomacy himself an Elder Air Elemental, then the week after going on a quest with Kelek to defeat an Emperor. As the questlord for this, I have a lot of expectations. My build is still in the early stages, but Agaroth (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7554869&postcount=504) will havea 50+ AC, 170+hp, and have a wealth of options available to him as he can polymorph infinite times per day, and use Supernatural attacks via the metamorphic transfer feat. What I desire from the questlord: 1. Extremely challenging encounters that still remain in the EL. 2. Good story development. 3. Can handle 2 excellently prepared and strong ECL16 characters with cohorts. I also need a questlord to watch me kill the elemental. PM me or ToK with any interest. Actually, King - you can't use diplomacy for an Elder elemental as they all have an Int score of 10. Diplomacy is only for allies that have an Int score of 3-6. You may need to rethink your plan a little.
SauroGrenom 10-22-05, 03:09 PM	I've been comparing the capabilites of a 3rd level wizard to those of a 3rd level psion, and I keep comming up with the impression that the wizard is more versatile and powerfull than the psion. Am I missing something? In the item crafting world, the wizard can craft anything from the much larger list of wondrous items, while the psion can only craft from the universal items list. There are no psionic versions of the stat boost items for one thing. From the perspective of powers/spells the psion agains falls short of the wizards versatility. Specifically there is no psionic equivalent of the spectral hand, or true strike, or sleep or tashs's laughter and the list goes no. The psion's strength appears to be with direct damage powers that use will or fort saves, but many of those require that you get into close range. The psicrystal is a little better than a familiar. Considering all the other areas that a psion falls short of the wizard, it appears that the wizard is far more powerfull than the psion.
One_Winged_Angel 10-22-05, 03:54 PM	I've been comparing the capabilites of a 3rd level wizard to those of a 3rd level psion, and I keep comming up with the impression that the wizard is more versatile and powerfull than the psion. Am I missing something? In the item crafting world, the wizard can craft anything from the much larger list of wondrous items, while the psion can only craft from the universal items list. There are no psionic versions of the stat boost items for one thing. From the perspective of powers/spells the psion agains falls short of the wizards versatility. Specifically there is no psionic equivalent of the spectral hand, or true strike, or sleep or tashs's laughter and the list goes no. The psion's strength appears to be with direct damage powers that use will or fort saves, but many of those require that you get into close range. The psicrystal is a little better than a familiar. Considering all the other areas that a psion falls short of the wizard, it appears that the wizard is far more powerfull than the psion. It has to do with later levels. You notice that augmentable powers remain useful for the rest of the psions career. Augmented energy rays will last a psion a good, long time, nevermind some of the higher ups (energy stun comes to mind). At low levels, yes, psions are a bit weaker. It also has to do with the discipline they choose. Keneticists are at least as good as most evokers and Egoists are at least as talented as Transmuters. Telepaths have something akin to a Necro/Enchanter type. If you want, I can find a list of reasons that "EXPANDED PSIONICS IS BROKEN!!!" Give me a bit of time and I'll post it up. EDIT: OK, these aren't arguments in and of themselves, but there are numerous counterpoints made that you may want to take a look at. The fact that they have two different threads dedicated to psionics being overpowered should say something. Myth: The XPH is Overpowered (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=331253) Myth: The XPH is Overpowered II (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=416446)
nightbanegod 10-22-05, 05:13 PM	how does the SRD vanilla SLAYER prestige class work for deteriming which creature is your favored slayer enemy? is it like the rangers favored enemy in determining what your bonuses apply to... or for example ... Giants ... is it Giants as a whole or Ogres ...?
Vathelokai 10-22-05, 05:32 PM	Can the intelligent bonuses be added to an existing magical item (ie, owning a +1 sword and later purchasing intelligent attributes) or does it have to be intelligent from creation? I believe the GM has ruled that intellegent items count as allies. If you are wanting one, you will have to PM Caterane or Pitlords.
Vathelokai 10-22-05, 05:36 PM	how does the SRD vanilla SLAYER prestige class work for deteriming which creature is your favored slayer enemy? is it like the rangers favored enemy in determining what your bonuses apply to... or for example ... Giants ... is it Giants as a whole or Ogres ...? Where is the slayer in the SRD? I cannot find it.
sloisel 10-22-05, 06:03 PM	Where is the slayer in the SRD? I cannot find it. http://d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm psionic prestige class. @Nightbanegod: your favored enemy has to be a "type of psionic creature." While that's not super clear, a comparison with the XPH suggests that you pick one monster entry, like illithid or half-giant, and it must be a psionic monster. Sébastien Loisel
MysticMonk2005 10-22-05, 06:51 PM	Can frozen levels still quest?
Snommelp 10-22-05, 10:38 PM	Question: if you take a standard action to set a tower shield between you and your opponent, and then on the next round move, but your shield does not change facing directions, do you still have to take a standard action to set it up again? Ramifications: if yes, then a smart opponent could attack with ranged weapons while you are moving. If no, you can double-move safely behind the cover of a tower shield.
Book5 10-22-05, 10:53 PM	So, purchasing something to mitigate the widespread use of invisibility... ~10,000 - Crystal mask of +10 Spot? ~30,000 - Lantern of Revealing? ~75,000 - Gem of Seeing? The crystal mask would go well with the RP for Tan. The lantern would go in Popper's mouth, and the gem would take 6 years real time to get... thoughts?
TelinArtho 10-22-05, 10:59 PM	Well, Aquin (sahaugin mutant) just purchased a fairly cheap (in gp) item of see invisibility 1/day. It did cost a fair amount in credits though (15 to be exact). The item costs 2400gp.
TelinArtho 10-22-05, 11:03 PM	Actually, why not pick up a wizard-scribed see invisibility scroll. 150gp for when you need it and a fairly easy CL check (DC4 vs 1d20+2)
Snommelp 10-22-05, 11:27 PM	Question: if you take a standard action to set a tower shield between you and your opponent, and then on the next round move, but your shield does not change facing directions, do you still have to take a standard action to set it up again? Ramifications: if yes, then a smart opponent could attack with ranged weapons while you are moving. If no, you can double-move safely behind the cover of a tower shield. Um... kind of important that I get an answer, here. Preferably soon so that Alexi vs. Flamehair can be finished.
TelinArtho 10-22-05, 11:43 PM	I guess I'm not sure of the answer, but I'm not even seeing that it takes a standard action to put the shield into a cover position. All I see is that it makes you forfeit your attacks for the round. The only other thing I see is that readying/setting a shield is a move action. I would also say that once it is set into a cover position, you could stay that way while moving. I'm even less sure about the feasibility of this - but hey - you wanted answers right. In other words - I'm just not sure- which is why I didn't answer in the first place.
One_Winged_Angel 10-22-05, 11:44 PM	Um... kind of important that I get an answer, here. Preferably soon so that Alexi vs. Flamehair can be finished. Ok, the answer here, I'm fairly sure, is this: You take a standard action every round to set the shield. If you are taking the action during that round, then yes, the shield stays between yourself and your opponent. In actuality, you are not "setting" it against an opponent. The description for tower shield says: ...you can instead use it as total cover, though you must give up your attacks to do so. In other words, there is no set direction the cover is in: it's always there. If you are saying the person slammed it into the ground and ducked behind it...I'd like to question how in the heck he plans on doing that. I gurentee the shield will give way before the ground does. If that is the case, then the sheild is like any other form of cover: someone can move around it.
Luni 10-22-05, 11:44 PM	Um... kind of important that I get an answer, here. Preferably soon so that Alexi vs. Flamehair can be finished. It takes a standard action to set up the shield for total cover for one turn. It ends at the start of your next turn. It is all in the FaQ, which I don't have handy.
Snommelp 10-22-05, 11:48 PM	It takes a standard action to set up the shield for total cover for one turn. It ends at the start of your next turn. It is all in the FaQ, which I don't have handy. So in other words, once your next turn starts, the shield comes down? I'll have to go look at the FAQ again to double-check that... that would give Alexi an advantage once he sees that happen. Thanks, Luni. And yes, it's a standard action, and yes, you choose a direction and stick with it for at least a round. So sayeth the FAQ.
One_Winged_Angel 10-22-05, 11:52 PM	So in other words, once your next turn starts, the shield comes down? I'll have to go look at the FAQ again to double-check that... that would give Alexi an advantage once he sees that happen. Thanks, Luni. And yes, it's a standard action, and yes, you choose a direction and stick with it for at least a round. So sayeth the FAQ. *mumbles* Why can't wizards just stick with a rule for once in their lives?
Snommelp 10-22-05, 11:57 PM	I just double-checked, and you're right, Luni, although I think I misinterpreted what you said. It's a standard action each round to keep it up, but deciding to use it as cover prevents it from coming down. That's the interpretation I'm getting from the FAQ. @OWA: Because that would be too easy? Seriously, though, the SRD isn't always clear; that's why the FAQ is there, and the FAQ is supposed to only clarify fuzzy rules. I suppose this is one of those fuzzy rules, since there was a rather large entry on tower shields.
Luni 10-23-05, 12:43 AM	This is another plug for a Questlord. A new character I am designing, Kelek's long-lost brother, isgoing on a mini next week to diplomacy himself an Elder Air Elemental, then the week after going on a quest with Kelek to defeat an Emperor. As the questlord for this, I have a lot of expectations. My build is still in the early stages, but Agaroth (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7554869&postcount=504) will havea 50+ AC, 170+hp, and have a wealth of options available to him as he can polymorph infinite times per day, and use Supernatural attacks via the metamorphic transfer feat. What I desire from the questlord: 1. Extremely challenging encounters that still remain in the EL. 2. Good story development. 3. Can handle 2 excellently prepared and strong ECL16 characters with cohorts. I also need a questlord to watch me kill the elemental. PM me or ToK with any interest. Metamorphosis doesn't allow outsider types. You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form, or any other type except construct, elemental, outsider, and undead. This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. Different wordings.
One_Winged_Angel 10-23-05, 01:27 AM	I just double-checked, and you're right, Luni, although I think I misinterpreted what you said. It's a standard action each round to keep it up, but deciding to use it as cover prevents it from coming down. That's the interpretation I'm getting from the FAQ. @OWA: Because that would be too easy? Seriously, though, the SRD isn't always clear; that's why the FAQ is there, and the FAQ is supposed to only clarify fuzzy rules. I suppose this is one of those fuzzy rules, since there was a rather large entry on tower shields. Where exactly in the FAQ does it talk about this? I've been looking high and low for it, but all I can find on tower shields is talk about using it mounted or the attack penalty you take.
Snommelp 10-23-05, 01:36 AM	It's a bit of a long quote, but this is what the FAQ says.To claim total cover from a tower shield, you must use a standard action. The tower shield rules don’t say that, but that’s what they mean. Since you can take only one standard action each round, you cannot also attack, cast a spell, activate a magic item (except for some use-activated items), use a special ability, use total defense, or start or complete a full-round action during the same round you claim total cover from the shield. You can, however, take a move action before or after you claim cover from the shield. Like other kinds of cover, the shield has to have a location relative to you on the battlefield. When you use the shield for cover, choose one edge of your space (not a corner). You have total cover against any attack’s line of effect that passes through that side of your space. If an attack’s line of effect goes through the corner of the side of your space that the shield blocks, you get cover from the shield (+4 AC, +2 on Reflex saves) instead of total cover. If an attack’s line of effect passes through a side of your space that the shield does not block, you get no cover from the shield at all. To determine where the line of effect enters your space, draw a line from the attacker’s center to your center. Or, in the case of a magical effect, from the effect’s point of origin and your center. Once you claim cover from the shield, the shield keeps blocking the side of your space that you chose until the beginning of your next turn, when you can again decide whether you’ll use the shield for cover. Once you choose the side of your space that the shield blocks, you cannot change it until your next turn.
King Uther 10-23-05, 01:53 AM	@Luni That.....sucks. I figured it mirrored polymorph in basically every way. There goes that terrible exploitation.
sloisel 10-23-05, 03:18 AM	Metamorphosis doesn't allow outsider types. I think you're misreading the rule, Luni. If you're an outsider, you're allowed to metamorph into an outsider type. Sébastien Loisel
Usurpator 10-23-05, 07:32 AM	It's a bit of a long quote, but this is what the FAQ says. Sorry for any confusion, just experimenting with Tower Shield tactics. I am seeing now that if you attack the wielder of a tower shield through a corner when he or she is using it for total cover, that you get +8 on your AC from it (+4 shield bonus, +4 cover bonus, both stack). Hey, I'm just seeing this matters for my fight with Alexi as well. Since Flamehair is at AC 27 then, and he rolls a natural 19, has +8 and -1 from range. His first hit doesn't actually hit.... Okay, back to editing my post.....
Usurpator 10-23-05, 12:30 PM	Anybody has an idea what exactly happens to the armor you're wearing when a lycanthrope changes shape from hybrid to animal form? Or when changing from natural form to hybrid form when your new form is the same or a smaller size? Changing to animal or hybrid form ruins the character’s armor and clothing (including any items worn) if the new form is larger than the character’s natural form; carried items are simply dropped. Characters can hastily doff clothing while changing, but not armor. Magic armor survives the change if it succeeds on a DC 15 Fortitude save. I suppose since armor normal adjust to fit the wearer (if within the same size category) it remains?
Pittbull 10-23-05, 12:40 PM	I think, it only adjusts if it's a magic one.
Usurpator 10-23-05, 12:47 PM	I think, it only adjusts if it's a magic one. I have no idea. You used to have percentages chances for armor if its fits. 50% chance for an elf to fit an armor made for a human, 20% chance for an elf to fit armor made for a dwarf. But in 3rd edition it seems to be: one size fits all. So if you find a suit of nonmagical medium armor, you always fit it if you are medium, regardless for what person exactly it was made originally, right? I have never seen: 'since this full plate was made for a Troglodyte, humans cannot use it' or something like it in 3rd edition.
One_Winged_Angel 10-23-05, 12:51 PM	I have no idea. You used to have percentages chances for armor if its fits. 50% chance for an elf to fit an armor made for a human, 20% chance for an elf to fit armor made for a dwarf. But in 3rd edition it seems to be: one size fits all. So if you find a suit of nonmagical medium armor, you always fit it if you are medium, regardless for what person exactly it was made originally, right? I have never seen: 'since this full plate was made for a Troglodyte, humans cannot use it' or something like it in 3rd edition. But this is shapeshifting into something that can normally not wear armor. Considered adding the Wild ability to it? Not sure if it's allowed, but it might be.
Usurpator 10-23-05, 01:01 PM	But this is shapeshifting into something that can normally not wear armor. Considered adding the Wild ability to it? Not sure if it's allowed, but it might be. I thought the ability to wear armor is determined by proficiency, not by race. Using Alter Self to change your shape into a Lizard Man or Troglodyte doesn't ruins your armor or does it? Mounts use barding, other creatures use regular armor. Nonhumanoid armors just cost more. That's all I can make of it in the armor rules.
Usurpator 10-23-05, 03:11 PM	OK, my second attempt at creating a playable afflicted lycanthrope: Tezca (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7573203) Any obvious problems, pointers, tips?
Gonbow 10-23-05, 04:55 PM	OK, my second attempt at creating a playable afflicted lycanthrope: Tezca (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7573203) Any obvious problems, pointers, tips? I highly suggest you get the Control Shape (Wis) skill. Being afflicted does not come without it's price! Otherwise you'll have nearly no control over when/how you shift, which is a bad thing (tm). Also, you list human/coyote form for the Alternate form block, change that you human/leopard, aye?
Snommelp 10-23-05, 04:58 PM	Methinks I want to make a bard... there wouldn't happen to be any LA +0 races that have bonuses to Charisma, would there?
Usurpator 10-23-05, 05:07 PM	I highly suggest you get the Control Shape (Wis) skill. Being afflicted does not come without it's price! Otherwise you'll have nearly no control over when/how you shift, which is a bad thing (tm). Also, you list human/coyote form for the Alternate form block, change that you human/leopard, aye? The whole idea was to make a lycanthrope who is not dependent on the form he is in. One who can operate well enough only in animal form, since then Control Shape skill doesn't matter much anyway. Is it your opinion that the current build is not viable in animal form only? (especially since Lortavos served as inspiration for my build) I'm planning on picking up a few skill points eventually, but with only 9 animal skill points to go around at the start of the build, it's just not worth it now. I mean human/leopard of course, I adapted Corghan's sheet for the new build and may not have removed all references.
Vathelokai 10-23-05, 05:43 PM	Methinks I want to make a bard... there wouldn't happen to be any LA +0 races that have bonuses to Charisma, would there? None. The closest you can get is a dromite; +2chr +1LA. There's also drow, but they have +2LA.
Usurpator 10-23-05, 05:49 PM	None. The closest you can get is a dromite; +2chr +1LA. There's also drow, but they have +2LA. Aasimar are also a possibility for +1 LA, +2 Wis, +2 Cha
MysticMonk2005 10-23-05, 05:49 PM	Can frozen levels still quest? :bump:
SauroGrenom 10-23-05, 05:59 PM	Methinks I want to make a bard... there wouldn't happen to be any LA +0 races that have bonuses to Charisma, would there? Phrenic is an LA+2 template applied to any race that grants power resistance and +2int, +2wis, +4cha, and a host of spell like abilities that improve as HD increase.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-23-05, 07:04 PM	Which of the these domains is best for a melee-based barb/fighter/cleric. Keep in mind that the absolute maximum cleric levels attained will be 5. War is already taken. One other is needed to replace Strength, which doesn't stack with gauntlets and enhancement bonuses. destruction (+4 hit, +5 dmg at best) travel (fly, FoM) fire (produce flame, fire elemntal ally) magic (obvious) protection (bonus to one saving throw) darkness (blind fight) madness (the ability to rage twice is cool, +8str/+8con -2 ac when in double rage.) weather (call lighting) Any other ideas? -ToK
NiQil 10-23-05, 07:08 PM	Which of the these domains is best for a melee-based barb/fighter/cleric. Keep in mind that the absolute maximum cleric levels attained will be 5. War is already taken. One other is needed to replace Strength, which doesn't stack with gauntlets and enhancement bonuses. destruction (+4 hit, +5 dmg at best) travel (fly, FoM) fire (produce flame, fire elemntal ally) magic (obvious) protection (bonus to one saving throw) darkness (blind fight) madness (the ability to rage twice is cool, +8str/+8con -2 ac when in double rage.) weather (call lighting) Any other ideas? -ToK If it were me, I would go either Travel....the Travel special ability to negate things like Entangle and Web and tanglefoot bags is great to use to get past ranged attackers and into melee range....or Darkness for the free Blind Fight feat...which will be invaluable against the invisible casters.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-23-05, 07:25 PM	If it were me, I would go either Travel....the Travel special ability to negate things like Entangle and Web and tanglefoot bags is great to use to get past ranged attackers and into melee range....or Darkness for the free Blind Fight feat...which will be invaluable against the invisible casters. I'm not so worried about invisible attackers, invis-purge will fix that nicely. So i guess Darkness falls to the cutting room floor. I find cheap flying far more useful than FoM...but it's a nice little bonus. -ToK destruction (+4 hit, +5 dmg at best) travel (fly, FoM) fire (produce flame, fire elemntal ally) magic (obvious versatility) protection (bonus to one saving throw) madness (the ability to rage twice is cool, +8str/+8con -2 ac when in double rage.) weather (call lighting)
Gonbow 10-23-05, 07:49 PM	The whole idea was to make a lycanthrope who is not dependent on the form he is in. One who can operate well enough only in animal form, since then Control Shape skill doesn't matter much anyway. Is it your opinion that the current build is not viable in animal form only? (especially since Lortavos served as inspiration for my build) I'm planning on picking up a few skill points eventually, but with only 9 animal skill points to go around at the start of the build, it's just not worth it now. I mean human/leopard of course, I adapted Corghan's sheet for the new build and may not have removed all references. Well with that in mind; then your fine. But being able to gulp some potions down then change form /is/ useful. Lortavos will be needing to get a custom mish-mash amulet eventually for a barkskin amulet of mighty mage's hand.
One_Winged_Angel 10-23-05, 08:45 PM	Which of the these domains is best for a melee-based barb/fighter/cleric. Keep in mind that the absolute maximum cleric levels attained will be 5. War is already taken. One other is needed to replace Strength, which doesn't stack with gauntlets and enhancement bonuses. destruction (+4 hit, +5 dmg at best) travel (fly, FoM) fire (produce flame, fire elemntal ally) magic (obvious) protection (bonus to one saving throw) darkness (blind fight) madness (the ability to rage twice is cool, +8str/+8con -2 ac when in double rage.) weather (call lighting) Any other ideas? -ToK I've actually been toying with a Half Orc Barb/Cleric. Domains were fun. In the end, I think I went with Destruction and Magic. If you're only taking 5 cleric levels, though, I'd likely go with madness and travel. Flying craziness raging.
King Uther 10-23-05, 11:54 PM	@Luni On second thought, it does go as far to say that you can change into a type of your normal form, which in this case is an outsider.
Luni 10-24-05, 12:11 AM	@King Uther And, I'd disagree. It says your form and any other except. The except takes precendence. I believe the power is poorly written.
Snommelp 10-24-05, 12:19 AM	Can frozen levels still quest? I'm not sure, but I think the answer is "no."
King Uther 10-24-05, 01:59 AM	It is definitely poorly written. It would seem strange to create a polymorph-like power, only to curb off its usefulness to outsiders. For now I am proceeding as normal, as I have put a lot of time in thought of the build, and the character is only for storyline anyways. But if later it proves you are correct, then obviously things will change.
Scribelords 10-24-05, 05:10 AM	@all: We have a new picture in the Gallery. Behold SauroGrenom and his better half <here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7048390)> SauroGrenom +2°
MysticMonk2005 10-24-05, 05:23 AM	<.< so we can get 2 creds for having u post our pic? That would almost take me outa dept :D
Dracazar 10-24-05, 07:01 AM	May I start a new level 3 character with a wondrous magical item? If yes, pls confirm the price for a vest that will do Aid spell 1 time at day: Command word: 2 x 3 x 1,800 gp / 5 = 2160 May i use the "Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use" rule? May use that item not being a cleric? TY
Prisonlords 10-24-05, 07:11 AM	Hello Everyone! I just want to point out that there is currently an open discussion about the Streamlining Initiative. I will be more than happy to answer any questions and addrsss concerns. There are a few tweaks to be worked out and I am looking for everyone's input, so go check out The Discussion and be sure to include your :twocents: R34dy f0r (|\/|0n7h)(|)4y), (Y34r) 0r |_|nd3r (0n57ru(710n 0r |\|07 R34dy (|\|4m3 0f (h4r4(73r) ()p710n4|: 5h0r7 (h4r4(73r d35(r1p710n, 0r f4v0ur3d qu073, 0r 7h3 |1k3. |\/|4x. 3 |1n35. P1(7ur3 0p710n4| (p|3453 k33p 7h3 1m463 47 4 r3450n48|3 51z3) 63nd3r: (63nd3r) R4(3: (R4(3) 51z3: (51z3), (|-|316h7), (\/\/316h7) 4|16nm3n7: (4|16nm3n7) (|455(35): ((|45535 4nd L3v3|5), (3(L) 3xp3r13n(3: (3xp3r13n(3) 57R ?? +? (? P01n75)[8453, +? 173m, +? R4(3, +? 73mp|473][(0nd1710n4| |\/|0d1f13r] |)3X ?? +? (? P01n75)[8453, +? 173m, +? R4(3, +? 73mp|473][(0nd1710n4| |\/|0d1f13r] (()|\| ?? +? (? P01n75)[8453, +? 173m, +? R4(3, +? 73mp|473][(0nd1710n4| |\/|0d1f13r] 1|\|7 ?? +? (? P01n75)[8453, +? 173m, +? R4(3, +? 73mp|473][(0nd1710n4| |\/|0d1f13r] \/\/15 ?? +? (? P01n75)[8453, +? 173m, +? R4(3, +? 73mp|473][(0nd1710n4| |\/|0d1f13r] (|-|4 ?? +? (? P01n75)[8453, +? 173m, +? R4(3, +? 73mp|473][(0nd1710n4| |\/|0d1f13r] |-|17 P01n75: ?? [?? |-||)] 4(: ?? [+? |)3x, +? 51z3, +? 4rm0r, +? 5h13|d, +? F347. +? |\|47ur4|, +? |\/|15(], 70u(h ??, F|47 ?? [+? (4rm0r 7yp3), +? (5h13|d 7yp3), +? (F347 |\|4m3)] [(0nd1710n4| |\/|0d1f13r] 1n171471v3: +? [? |)3x, ? F347] 848/6r4p: +?/+? [+? 848, +? 57r, +? F347, +? 51z3] [(0nd1710n4| |\/|0d1f13r] 5p33d: L4nd ??’, ()7h3r ??’ [8453 ??, (|455 +??’, F347 +??’, 173m +??’] 54v35: F0r7 +?? [? (|455 1 + ? (|455 2 + ? (0n + ? 173m + ? |\/|15(] [(0nd1710n4| |\/|0d1f13r] R3f +?? [? (|455 1 + ? (|455 2 + ? |)3x + ? 173m + ? |\/|15(] [(0nd1710n4| |\/|0d1f13r] \/\/1|| +?? [? (|455 1 + ? (|455 2 + ? \/\/15 + ? 173m + ? |\/|15(] [(0nd1710n4| |\/|0d1f13r] 4774(k5 (w34p0nn4m3) +?? m3|33, ?d? + ?, (r17 ??-20/x? [+? 57r, +? 848, +? 51z3, +? 3nh, +? |\/|15(] (w34p0nn4m3) +?? m3|33, ?d? + ?, (r17 ??-20/x? [+? 57r, +? 848, +? 51z3, +? 3nh, +? |\/|15(] (w34p0nn4m3) +?? r4n63d, ?d? + ?, (r17 ??-20/x?, R4n63 ???' [+? |)3x, +? 848, +? 51z3, +? 3nh, +? |\/|15(] (w34p0nn4m3) +?? r4n63d, ?d? + ?, (r17 ??-20/x?, R4n63 ???' [+? |)3x, +? 848, +? 51z3, +? 3nh, +? |\/|15(] (0m847 |\/|0d1f13r5 +?? (R4n63d/|\/|3|33) (4774(k/|)4m463) ((0nd1710n)(F347, 481|17y, R4(14|, 37() +?? (R4n63d/|\/|3|33) (4774(k/|)4m463) ((0nd1710n)(F347, 481|17y, R4(14|, 37() +?? (R4n63d/|\/|3|33) (4774(k/|)4m463) ((0nd1710n)(F347, 481|17y, R4(14|, 37() +?? (R4n63d/|\/|3|33) (4774(k/|)4m463) ((0nd1710n)(F347, 481|17y, R4(14|, 37() (f347n4m3) (157 L3v3|) (()p710n4| |)35(r1p710n) (f347n4m3) (3rd L3v3|) (()p710n4| |)35(r1p710n) (f347n4m3) (157 (|455) (()p710n4| |)35(r1p710n) (f347n4m3) (2nd (|455) (()p710n4| |)35(r1p710n) (f347n4m3) (R4(14|) (()p710n4| |)35(r1p710n) (|455 481|17135: ((|455 1 |\|4m3) (|\|4m3): (()p710n4|: 8r13f 5umm4ry) (|\|4m3): (()p710n4|: 8r13f 5umm4ry) (|\|4m3): (()p710n4|: 8r13f 5umm4ry) (|455 481|17135: ((|455 2 |\|4m3) (|\|4m3): (()p710n4|: 8r13f 5umm4ry) (|\|4m3): (()p710n4|: 8r13f 5umm4ry) (|\|4m3): (()p710n4|: 8r13f 5umm4ry) R4(3 481|17135: (R4(3 |\|4m3) (|\|4m3): (()p710n4|: 8r13f 5umm4ry) (|\|4m3): (()p710n4|: 8r13f 5umm4ry) (|\|4m3): (()p710n4|: 8r13f 5umm4ry) 73mp|473 481|17135: (73mp|473 |\|4m3) (|\|4m3): (()p710n4|: 8r13f 5umm4ry) (|\|4m3): (()p710n4|: 8r13f 5umm4ry) (|\|4m3): (()p710n4|: 8r13f 5umm4ry) 5k1||5 (?? (|455 1)(?? (|455 2): +?? 4ppr4153 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? 4u70hypn0515 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? \/\/15 +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? 84|4n(3 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? |)3x +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? 8|uff [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? (h4 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? (|1m8 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 57r +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? (0n(3n7r4710n [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? (0n +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? (r4f7 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |)3(1ph3r 5(r1p7 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |)1p|0m4(y [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? (h4 +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |)1548|3 |)3v1(3 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |)156u153 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? (h4 +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? 35(4p3 4r7157 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? |)3x +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? F0r63ry [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? 647h3r 1nf0rm4710n [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? (h4 +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |-|4nd|3 4n1m4| [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? (h4 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |-|34| [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? \/\/15 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |-|1d3 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? |)3x +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? 1n71m1d473 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? (h4 +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? Jump [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 57r +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |{n0w|3d63: 4r(4n4 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |{n0w|3d63: 4r(h173(7ur3 & 3n61n33r1n6 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |{n0w|3d63: |)un630n33r1n6 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |{n0w|3d63: 6306r4phy [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |{n0w|3d63: |-|1570ry [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |{n0w|3d63: L0(4| [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |{n0w|3d63: |\|47ur3 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |{n0w|3d63: |\|081|17y [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |{n0w|3d63: P510n1(5 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |{n0w|3d63: R3|1610n [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |{n0w|3d63: 7h3 P|4n35 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? L1573n [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? \/\/15 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |\/|0v3 51|3n7|y [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? |)3x +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? ()p3n L0(k [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? |)3x +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? P3rf0rm [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? (h4 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? Pr0f35510n [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? \/\/15 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? P51(r4f7 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? R1d3 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? |)3x +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? 534r(h [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? 53n53 |\/|071v3 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? \/\/15 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? 5|316h7 0f |-|4nd [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? |)3x +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? 5p3||(r4f7 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7 +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? 5p07 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? \/\/15 +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? 5urv1v4| [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? \/\/15 +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? 5w1m [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 57r +? F347] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? 7um8|3 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? |)3x +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |_|53 |\/|461( |)3v1(3 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? (h4 +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |_|53 P510n1( |)3v1(3 [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? (h4 +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] +?? |_|53 R0p3 [/B] [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? |)3x +? F347 +? 5yn3r6y (|\|4m3)] [+? (0nd1710n4| 80nu5][? R4nk5] L4n6u4635 5p0k3n: (0mm0n, (L4n6u463 |\|4m3), (L4n6u463 |\|4m3) & (L4n6u463 |\|4m3). 5p34k L4n6u463: [? ((|455 1) +? ((|455 2) +? 1n7][? 7074| L4n6u4635] 5p3||5 |\/|3m0r1z3d: [? / ? / ? / ? / ? / ? / ? / ? / ? / ?] [7074| 5p3|| L3v3|5/|)4y: ??; (457: (1/3 0f 7074| 5p3|| L3v3|5)][|\/|15(. |\/|0d1f13r] 0 [|)( (10 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 1 [|)( (11 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 2 [|)( (12 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 3 [|)( (13 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 4 [|)( (14 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 5 [|)( (15 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 6 [|)( (16 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 7 [|)( (17 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 8 [|)( (18 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 9 [|)( (19 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 5p3||800k: (4n7r1p5: (4|| (4n7r1p5 m1nu5 5p3||5 fr0m pr0h18173d 5(h00|5 1n (453 0f 5p3(14|157 w1z4rd) 157-L3v3|: (5p3|| 1), (5p3|| 2), (5p3|| 3) 2nd-L3v3|: (5p3|| 1), (5p3|| 2), (5p3|| 3) 3rd-L3v3|: (5p3|| 1), (5p3|| 2), (5p3|| 3) 47h-L3v3|: (5p3|| 1), (5p3|| 2), (5p3|| 3) 57h-L3v3|: (5p3|| 1), (5p3|| 2), (5p3|| 3) 67h-L3v3|: (5p3|| 1), (5p3|| 2), (5p3|| 3) 77h-L3v3|: (5p3|| 1), (5p3|| 2), (5p3|| 3) 87h-L3v3|: (5p3|| 1), (5p3|| 2), (5p3|| 3) 97h-L3v3|: (5p3|| 1), (5p3|| 2), (5p3|| 3) 5p3||5 p3r |)4y: [? / ? / ? / ? / ? / ? / ? / ? / ? / ?] [7074| 5p3|| L3v3|5/|)4y: ??; (457: (1/3 0f 7074| 5p3|| L3v3|5)][|\/|15(. |\/|0d1f13r] 0 [|)( (10 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 1 [|)( (11 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 2 [|)( (12 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 3 [|)( (13 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 4 [|)( (14 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 5 [|)( (15 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 6 [|)( (16 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 7 [|)( (17 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 8 [|)( (18 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 9 [|)( (19 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x P0w3r5 |{n0wn: [P0w3r P01n75/|)4y: ??; |\/|4n1f357: (1/3 0f 7074| P0w3r P01n75)] [|\/|15(. |\/|0d1f13r][4u6m3n748|3] 0 [|)( (10 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 1 [|)( (11 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 2 [|)( (12 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 3 [|)( (13 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 4 [|)( (14 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 5 [|)( (15 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 6 [|)( (16 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 7 [|)( (17 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 8 [|)( (18 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 9 [|)( (19 + 481|17y |\/|0d1f13r)] x, x, x, x, x 3qu1pm3n7: (Fr33 ()u7f17) (\/\/0rn) Fr33 (4rm0r) [+? 4(, +? |\/|4x |)3x, -? 4(P][?? L85][????6p] (5h13|d) [+? 4(, +? |\/|4x |)3x, -? 4(P][?? L85][????6p] (83|7 0f ????) [?? L85][????6p] (80075 0f ????) [?? L85][????6p] ((|04k 0f ????) [?? L85][????6p] (|-|47/|-|3|m 0f ???) [?? L85][????6p] (P3r14p7 0f ????) [?? L85][????6p] (R1n6 0f ???) [?? L85][????6p] (R1n6 0f ???) [?? L85][????6p] (|\/|15(. 173m) [?? L85][????6p] (|\/|15(. 173m) [?? L85][????6p] (|\/|15(. 173m) [?? L85][????6p] \/\/34p0n5: (\/\/34p0n |\|4m3) [?? L85][????6p] (\/\/34p0n |\|4m3) [?? L85][????6p] (\/\/34p0n |\|4m3) [?? L85][????6p] 3xp3nd48|3 173m5: 3|1x1r5, ()1|5, P0710n5 & 7477005 3|1x1r 0f (|\|4m3) [0.1 |8 34(h][???6p 34(h] ()1| 0f (|\|4m3) [(L ?][0.1 |8 34(h][???6p 34(h] P0710n 0f (|\|4m3) [(L ?][0.1 |8 34(h][???6p 34(h] 747700 0f (|\|4m3) [|\/|L ?] [???6p 34(h] 5(r0||5 (5p3|| |\|4m3) [(L ?] [- |85][???6p 34(h] (5p3|| |\|4m3) [(L ?] [- |85][???6p 34(h] (5p3|| |\|4m3) [(L ?] [- |85][???6p 34(h] P0w3r570n35 (P0w3r |\|4m3) [|\/|L ?][- |85][??6p 34(h] (P0w3r |\|4m3) [|\/|L ?][- |85][??6p 34(h] (P0w3r |\|4m3)4 [|\/|L ?][- |85][??6p 34(h] 4||135 4nd 3qu1pm3n7: (|\|4m3) (R4(3 & (|455) (|\|4m3) (|\/|0un7) (|\/|15(. 173m) [?? L85][????6p] (|\/|15(. 173m) [?? L85][????6p] (|\/|15(. 173m) [?? L85][????6p] 3qu1pm3n7 @ |-|0m3: (|\/|15(. 173m) [?? L85][????6p] (|\/|15(. 173m) [?? L85][????6p] (|\/|15(. 173m) [?? L85][????6p] 7074| 60|d 34rn3d: ???6p 7074| 60|d 5p3n7: ???6p 60|d R3m41n1n6: ???6p |\/|15(3||4n30u5 57471571(5: 3n(um8r4n(3: 0-??? (|16h7), ???-??? (m3d1um), ???-??? 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(|455 2 + ? \/\/15 + ? 173m + ? |\/|15(] (h4r4(73r 84(k6r0und: ()p710n4|: 84(k6r0und, p3r50n4|17y, m4nn3r5, 47717ud3, m071v4710n5, |1k35, d351r35, 604|5, 45p1r4710n5, f34r5, h48175, qu1rk5, 7h3 w4y y0ur P( |00k5 wh3n f1r57 3n(0un73r3d; 4ny7h1n6 3|53. |)3|373 7h15 53(710n 1f n0 84(k6r0und. 8uff5 4nd Pr3f16h7 4(710n5: - (P0w3r/5p3||/173m) (|)ur4710n/(057) - (P0w3r/5p3||/173m) (|)ur4710n/(057) - (P0w3r/5p3||/173m) (|)ur4710n/(057) - (P0w3r/5p3||/173m) (|)ur4710n/(057) - (P0w3r/5p3||/173m) (|)ur4710n/(057) |)3f4u|7 74(71(5 ()p710n4|: d3|373 1f n07 4v41|48|3 F16h75 r35u|75: F16h7 01 - \/\/1n / L055 1nf0rm4710n - +XX 3xp, +XX6p F16h7 02 - \/\/1n / L055 1nf0rm4710n - +XX 3xp, +XX6p F16h7 03 - \/\/1n / L055 1nf0rm4710n - +XX 3xp, +XX6p Qu357/(4mp416n - R35u|75 - +XX 3xp, +XX6p 7074| ????6p 50|d 173m5: (|\/|15(. 173m) [|\|37 L055 ???6p] (|\/|15(. 173m) [|\|37 L055 ???6p] (|\/|15(. 173m) [|\|37 L055 ???6p] 3|1x1r5, ()1|5, P0710n5 & 7477005 3|1x1r 0f (|\|4m3) [???6p 34(h] ()1| 0f (|\|4m3) [(L ?][???6p 34(h] P0710n 0f (|\|4m3) [(L ?][???6p 34(h] 747700 0f (|\|4m3) [|\/|L ?] [???6p 34(h] 5(r0||5 (5p3|| |\|4m3) [(L ?] [???6p 34(h] (5p3|| |\|4m3) [(L ?] [???6p 34(h] (5p3|| |\|4m3) [(L ?] [???6p 34(h] P0w3r570n35 (P0w3r |\|4m3) [|\/|L ?][???6p 34(h] (P0w3r |\|4m3) [|\/|L ?][???6p 34(h] (P0w3r |\|4m3)4 [|\/|L ?][???6p 34(h] Just Kidding! This is not the actual character sheet, it is only intended to poke fun at all the t337 fr34k5!
TelinArtho 10-24-05, 09:56 AM	May I start a new level 3 character with a wondrous magical item? If yes, pls confirm the price for a vest that will do Aid spell 1 time at day: Command word: 2 x 3 x 1,800 gp / 5 = 2160 May i use the "Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use" rule? May use that item not being a cleric? TY Yes you can start with wondrous items, even custom ones. All of the wondrous items in the SRD are allowed (except those that duplicate Gate - but at 3rd level, you don't have that kind of cash anyway). For custom items, like the one you have designed above you need three things: 1. The money. 2. The approval of the GM (send a PM to Pitlords detailing the specifics of the item including all abilities, body slot and calculation for cost) and 3. 15 credits. Earning credits is detailed in the rules thread and I suggest you check it out. Without the credits though - you're out of luck even with GM approval.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-24-05, 10:22 AM	Just wondering if anything goes? Here's the magic item i'm thinking of buying. Continuous Necklace of shapechanging (useable once per 10 thousand years). 9(sl) * 17(cl) * 2000 = 306,000 *4 (1rd/lvl) = 1,224,000 gp divide by (5/(1/365000)) = 7 copper pieces (rounded up). So, since time is a non-factor, i'm just wondering what are the odds of buying this for 15°? If there's a problem with using it every week, i can just buy a new one each fight week right? Even still, i just need to use it once and it's forever active. LOL -ToK
TelinArtho 10-24-05, 10:38 AM	Apparently the bringing up of old characters has introduced the "same name" issue... The Gatekeeper (TaggIIV) [ECL4] was just rebirthed when the player came back, and just after The Gatekeeper (Iced) [ECL6] finished his initial quest...
TelinArtho 10-24-05, 10:40 AM	Just wondering if anything goes? Here's the magic item i'm thinking of buying. Continuous Necklace of shapechanging (useable once per 10 thousand years). 9(sl) * 17(cl) * 2000 = 306,000 *4 (1rd/lvl) = 1,224,000 gp divide by (5/(1/365000)) = 7 copper pieces (rounded up). So, since time is a non-factor, i'm just wondering what are the odds of buying this for 15°? If there's a problem with using it every week, i can just buy a new one each fight week right? Even still, i just need to use it once and it's forever active. LOL -ToK Your numbers are off. If it is usable once per 10 thousand years, it would be divided by (5/(1/3650000)) But, hey with GM approval that's technically fine. 15 credits per one that you purchase. Did I mention the GM approval part?
Myrridin 10-24-05, 10:54 AM	MysticMonk: I'd be happy to Questlord for you, if they allow a frozen character to go questing. Don't see why not, as it could move you out of a frozen level. :)
TelinArtho 10-24-05, 11:33 AM	Looking over the diplomacy allies, and the rules for it, I am wondering if the Formian worker is really a viable option. Requirements to get a formian worker: 1. You need the proper bonus to Diplomacy (+11) - okay no problem. 2. You need to be able to communicate with it (in some way). Here's the problem, Formian Workers are not able to communicate except through body signals and through the hive mind. Since a character is not going to have that hive mind, how are we defining the limitations of the body signals (obviously LOS is needed, but beyond that - how specific can you be?). If the character can't develop the signals, then the worker isn't an option for diplomacy really. Any thoughts?
Myrridin 10-24-05, 11:35 AM	Since Kalarthus is now in prison, due to a Feat I couldn't take. Can I choose a new feat, refund the cost of my longbow going to non-magical, and then keep going? Or is that going to cause problems?
TelinArtho 10-24-05, 11:38 AM	Yes you can (and should) do all of that. Drop the feat, pick up another. Adjust the price and refund it. You should probably mention it in the character changes thread (with the specifics of what changed), but I imagine Cat will just tell you to change it rather than change it and link it. Better to be safe than sorry though.
Luni 10-24-05, 11:57 AM	Looking over the diplomacy allies, and the rules for it, I am wondering if the Formian worker is really a viable option. Requirements to get a formian worker: 1. You need the proper bonus to Diplomacy (+11) - okay no problem. 2. You need to be able to communicate with it (in some way). Here's the problem, Formian Workers are not able to communicate except through body signals and through the hive mind. Since a character is not going to have that hive mind, how are we defining the limitations of the body signals (obviously LOS is needed, but beyond that - how specific can you be?). If the character can't develop the signals, then the worker isn't an option for diplomacy really. Any thoughts? Bard with Perform Charades.
TelinArtho 10-24-05, 12:01 PM	Hmmm... that actually makes sense. I guess that would fall under acting (mime) - which works for the character anyway... The question is would I need to make a check on it to confer the message, or would the DC be low enough (say DC5) to not have to worry about it in most cases? Anyone else agree/disagree?
Luni 10-24-05, 12:15 PM	Hmm. Same DC as Handling an Animal? So it would be DC 10 for simple tasks it understands, and 25 for more complex tasks. Simple: Attack Defend Come Follow Stay Carry This and so on. Complex Building a house
Sindorin 10-24-05, 12:31 PM	I see that they finally got around to giving the Elders their "Core Coliseum Elder" tags... why didn't I get mine? When I was made an Elder, Cat said that I was now an Elder from that point on!!! Just kidding, I'm not mad or anything.
King Uther 10-24-05, 12:38 PM	Well, since we're doing that, here are the ones I want. 1. Ring of continuous contingent elemental swarm. 2. Necklace of Continuous Contingent True Resurrection. 3. Belt of continuous Dispel Buffer 4. Kelek's boots of continuous contingent Prismatic Wall 5. +1 Breastplate of continuous contingent Power Word, Kill 6. +1 Handaxe(ha) of continuous contingent Power Word, Stun and Blindness 7. Ring of continuous contingent True Strike
NiQil 10-24-05, 12:42 PM	Well, since we're doing that, here are the ones I want. 1. Ring of continuous contingent elemental swarm. 2. Necklace of Continuous Contingent True Resurrection. 3. Belt of continuous Dispel Buffer 4. Kelek's boots of continuous contingent Prismatic Wall 5. +1 Breastplate of continuous contingent Power Word, Kill 6. +1 Handaxe(ha) of continuous contingent Power Word, Stun and Blindness 7. Ring of continuous contingent True Strike All yours for the low low price of 15 credits each and DM approval!
NiQil 10-24-05, 02:27 PM	Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A bard is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow, and whip. Bards are proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields). A bard can cast bard spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a bard wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (most do). A multiclass bard still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes. Spells: A bard casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the bard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. Every bard spell has a verbal component (singing, reciting, or music). To learn or cast a spell, a bard must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a bard’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the bard’s Charisma modifier. Like other spellcasters, a bard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Bard. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score. When Table: Bard Spells Known indicates that the bard gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level. The bard’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A bard begins play knowing four 0-level spells of your choice. At most new bard levels, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Bard Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a bard knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Bard Spells Known are fixed.) Upon reaching 5th level, and at every third bard level after that (8th, 11th, and so on), a bard can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the bard “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level bard spell the bard can cast. A bard may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level. As noted above, a bard need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level. Spells: Beginning at 1st level, an assassin gains the ability to cast a number of arcane spells. To cast a spell, an assassin must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell’s level, so an assassin with an Intelligence of 10 or lower cannot cast these spells. Assassin bonus spells are based on Intelligence, and saving throws against these spells have a DC of 10 + spell level + the assassin’s Intelligence bonus. When the assassin gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Intelligence score for that spell level. The assassin’s spell list appears below. An assassin casts spells just as a bard does. Upon reaching 6th level, at every even-numbered level after that (8th and 10th), an assassin can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level assassin spell the assassin can cast. An assassin may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for that level. With regard to the above quotes, and specifically the highlighted portions....does this mean that assassin's also do not suffer ASF when wearing light armor?
Pittbull 10-24-05, 02:31 PM	Whow! NiQil, this is a nice catch! I would say, you're right, the Assasin suffers no penalty, while wearing a light armor, just as a bard does.
One_Winged_Angel 10-24-05, 03:01 PM	Huh. Odd. I never actually thought of that. I always just assumed they could cast in light armor. That's the way my friends and I have always run it offline anyway. EDIT: Rules question. What happens when you bull rush a mounted opponent? It seems illogical to push the horse back as well. Do you knock him off the horse?
Snommelp 10-24-05, 04:07 PM	I would say that, for simplicity's sake, you have to Bull Rush the mount, not the mounted. Of course, just because it's simple doesn't mean it's right, so someone else can feel free to contradict me.
Luni 10-24-05, 04:16 PM	EDIT: Rules question. What happens when you bull rush a mounted opponent? It seems illogical to push the horse back as well. Do you knock him off the horse? I believe the mount and rider are treated a 1 unit. Therfore you'd push both of them, but only check against the horse's strength.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-24-05, 04:23 PM	Well, since we're doing that, here are the ones I want. 1. Ring of continuous contingent elemental swarm. 2. Necklace of Continuous Contingent True Resurrection. 3. Belt of continuous Dispel Buffer 4. Kelek's boots of continuous contingent Prismatic Wall 5. +1 Breastplate of continuous contingent Power Word, Kill 6. +1 Handaxe(ha) of continuous contingent Power Word, Stun and Blindness 7. Ring of continuous contingent True Strike Well, it might cost you around 2 or 3 silver pieces for all that, so not sure if you wanna make that heavy of an investment. After all, if you enter the area of my cape of continuous anti-magic field, it's all surpressed, and you just wasted 3 sp. -ToK
Tellish_of_Ket 10-24-05, 04:32 PM	EDIT: Rules question. What happens when you bull rush a mounted opponent? It seems illogical to push the horse back as well. Do you knock him off the horse? The others are partially right, but it's not that simple. Let's break it down shall we. If you wish to bull rush the dude on the mount, that's fine...but you'll have to Bullrush them both as you would have to move through the horses square and it's not likely that they will just let you pass. So you'll need to beat both of their opposed rolls, not just the one. If you don't have improved bullrush you would suffer an AoO from both the horse and the rider. -ToK
Sindorin 10-24-05, 04:32 PM	I know all of this talk of these crazy seemingly auto-win items may simply be in earnest jest, but... are they really worth testing in the arena environment? Later on, when characters get all kinds of money and rewards, it almost seems as if everyone will be buying big toys to wear. Battles will be determined by who has the bigger one. That just doesn't seem right to me for some reason. I'm not sure why, maybe it is because we're trying to test builds while having fun. Toys are fun, yes, but do they really promote the purpose of half of the stuff we do? We have added quests and campaigns for the roleplaying aspect of this... If we're going to have items such as the once stated above, I must suggest that we have leagues among the levels - if your character has so many items over a certain price or has x amount of custom items, that character should be in a different league than a n00b like me who has no real clue how exactly to go about purchasing such a customized item.
nightbanegod 10-24-05, 04:57 PM	just wanted clarification on psionic items.... tattoos bought at lowest ML level ... powerstones ... bought at higher ML lvl for price... and price equals ... what?
nightbanegod 10-24-05, 05:00 PM	The others are partially right, but it's not that simple. Let's break it down shall we. If you wish to bull rush the dude on the mount, that's fine...but you'll have to Bullrush them both as you would have to move through the horses square and it's not likely that they will just let you pass. So you'll need to beat both of their opposed rolls, not just the one. If you don't have improved bullrush you would suffer an AoO from both the horse and the rider. -ToK not sure about the situation ... but wouldnt a riders movement be relative to his mount... therefore you only need to bullrush the mount and the rider ATOP the mount moves where the mount moves... makes more sense that having to roll an opposed strength check vs the rider since he has no ground to brace against and if hes bracing against the mount ... well if you move the mount ....then his brace goes as well.... makes sense to me... but then your still going to have to deal with an AoO from both since i dont think a rider would be too happy about someone else pushing around his own mount...
TelinArtho 10-24-05, 05:05 PM	Tattoos are priced like potions - so a 2nd level power would be 3*2*50gp = 300gp; double that if the power is "personal" range. Powerstones are priced like scrolls - so a 2nd level (unaugmented) stone at ML4 would be 4*2*25 = 200gp. The tricky part is augmenting. With tattoos it isn't likely to be augmented (because it costs credits and is a lot more expensive). For every 2 points it is augmented, it adds one to the power level. So a 2nd level power with 2 augmented points, is priced like a 3rd level power at ML5. PL (3)* ML (5) * 50 = 750gp. With stones it isn't as bad, but it still gets expensive quick: Stone of Augmented Expansion (ML3) = 3*2*25 = 150gp. Stone of Augmented Expansion (ML7) [for duration in rounds, but 2 size increases] = 7*4*25 = 700gp
TelinArtho 10-24-05, 05:11 PM	I know all of this talk of these crazy seemingly auto-win items may simply be in earnest jest, but... are they really worth testing in the arena environment? Later on, when characters get all kinds of money and rewards, it almost seems as if everyone will be buying big toys to wear. Battles will be determined by who has the bigger one. That just doesn't seem right to me for some reason. I'm not sure why, maybe it is because we're trying to test builds while having fun. Toys are fun, yes, but do they really promote the purpose of half of the stuff we do? We have added quests and campaigns for the roleplaying aspect of this... If we're going to have items such as the once stated above, I must suggest that we have leagues among the levels - if your character has so many items over a certain price or has x amount of custom items, that character should be in a different league than a n00b like me who has no real clue how exactly to go about purchasing such a customized item. They are in more than jest - they are simply being ridiculous. However, there is a bit of a point to be made here. As the ECL goes up, the apparent disparity between individuals will probably go up as well. This is for a couple of reasons: 1. In higher levels, you likely will have a fair amount of expendables that might be used whether or not you win - meaning that a loss can really cripple your money for a fight or two - maybe even making you lose money. 2. In higher levels, different techniques can be surprisingly effective against individuals and with smaller fields with which to fight - it might be against those specific individuals that you are successful. Take for instance Aquin when he first showed up. He had his first fight and before the fight I was pretty sure he would lose - unless he got REAL lucky with a roll or two. He didn't, so he lost. Looking over the rest of the people of that ECL, he made a purchase and now, I feel at least, that he's got a decent chance. That item? The necklace of see invisibility. Without it, even with decent listen/spot - he's a sitting duck. The important thing at the higher levels is to know your potential opponents and what they can bring to the table that you can't deal with. Adapting before you are paired is probably an effective way to deal with it. Adapting after the fact (like Aquin has been doing), is tough - but what you must do if you want to succeed.
sloisel 10-24-05, 05:14 PM	5. +1 Breastplate of continuous contingent Power Word, Kill Isn't a permanencied symbol of death engraved on your shield sufficient and cheaper? Sébastien Loisel
nightbanegod 10-24-05, 05:14 PM	Tattoos are priced like potions - so a 2nd level power would be 3*2*50gp = 300gp; double that if the power is "personal" range. Powerstones are priced like scrolls - so a 2nd level (unaugmented) stone at ML4 would be 4*2*25 = 200gp. The tricky part is augmenting. With tattoos it isn't likely to be augmented (because it costs credits and is a lot more expensive). For every 2 points it is augmented, it adds one to the power level. So a 2nd level power with 2 augmented points, is priced like a 3rd level power at ML5. PL (3)* ML (5) * 50 = 750gp. With stones it isn't as bad, but it still gets expensive quick: Stone of Augmented Expansion (ML3) = 3*2*25 = 150gp. Stone of Augmented Expansion (ML7) [for duration in rounds, but 2 size increases] = 7*4*25 = 700gp so its simply (manifester level incrimented per PP required for desired effect)*(powerlevel incrimented from base level by 1 per 2 ML)*(25 for stones or 50 for tattoos)? and as a side note? ° reqs? for augmented tat's calculate out how?
TelinArtho 10-24-05, 05:33 PM	You could just check in the blackmarket, but since I'm feeling nice today, here's the relevant entry: You may pay credits to get the right to buy custom single-use expendable items with a higher casterlevel. This only applies to scrolls, tattoos (incl. crawling tattoos), and powerstones. You may pay 1° per 2 CL above the normal limit (max 20). Normally, you can only buy scrolls and powerstones up to your ECL+2, and minimum ML for tattoos. Note that two spells on one scroll still count as two custom items as do several custom powers stored within one powerstone! Example: Tattoo of expansion [ML 7], Powerstone of force screen [ML 9], Scroll of Time Stop [CL 17]. That tattoo of expansion [ML7] cannot be augmented fully because it would be a ML4 item. If it was legal though, its cost would be 7*4*50 = 1400gp and 3 credits. A powerstone of expansion augmented to ML7 for a 5th level character costs no credits; for a 3rd level character, it would cost 1 credit.
nightbanegod 10-24-05, 07:06 PM	alright people.... any words of wisdom on THE BOUNTY HUNTER? (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7484273&postcount=498) and if his name is already taken and i didnt see it ... just let me know... thanks
NiQil 10-24-05, 07:41 PM	alright people.... any words of wisdom on THE BOUNTY HUNTER? (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7484273&postcount=498) and if his name is already taken and i didnt see it ... just let me know... thanks If it were me, rather than taking weapon focus, I would take Iron Will to boost that weak will save. That will save is going to get you pwned by pretty much any caster/manifester build here. That just screams "Hit me with spells!"
Sindorin 10-24-05, 07:49 PM	alright people.... any words of wisdom on THE BOUNTY HUNTER? (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7484273&postcount=498) and if his name is already taken and i didnt see it ... just let me know... thanks Um, just so you know... none of your sblocks have anything in them.
Snommelp 10-24-05, 07:51 PM	Um, just so you know... none of your sblocks have anything in them. I think you may be having computer issues, I see them full of text.
Sindorin 10-24-05, 07:55 PM	weird... other sblocks work just fine. I will have to take a look at that.
Mind Rogue 10-24-05, 07:56 PM	Hey NiQil, be sure to close all your tags before using spoiler tags. It causes lots of problems for Firefox users like Sindorin and myself if you don't.
Sindorin 10-24-05, 07:57 PM	Ah, I think Firefox has issues with certain sblocks... though it has never had a problem with my own characters' sblocks... How very odd.
NiQil 10-24-05, 08:01 PM	Hey NiQil, be sure to close all your tags before using spoiler tags. It causes lots of problems for Firefox users like Sindorin and myself if you don't. I was just about to post to see if that was an issue. I changed up the formatting a bit on my sheets, and I wanted to see if where I have my font tags were causing problems. Apparantly they are. I'll fix em when I get home from work....thankfully I know exactly which ones are causing the issue.
Mind Rogue 10-24-05, 08:06 PM	Actually, the above quote was ment for Nightbanegod, it's just I know you've done the same thing in the past and what the solution is, so your name just kind of came out. That and you're guilty as the nine hells anyway.
Macbrea 10-24-05, 09:01 PM	Hey everyone, Looks interesting figured i would make a character. A friend of mine pointed out the board and I was interested. I used to post excessively on Enworld, just haven't in awhile. Figured I spend some time around these boards. So, question is once you have created a character does someone need to check him out before he can be classified as playable? And if so, mine is available in my sig line.
Snommelp 10-24-05, 09:05 PM	Hey everyone, Looks interesting figured i would make a character. A friend of mine pointed out the board and I was interested. I used to post excessively on Enworld, just haven't in awhile. Figured I spend some time around these boards. So, question is once you have created a character does someone need to check him out before he can be classified as playable? And if so, mine is available in my sig line. Welcome! You should probably PM a link to your character to the account Pitlords. You don't need anyone to review him, but it's recommended. Even the old-timers break the rules accidentally sometimes, and getting others to review your character can prevent frustration later. EDIT: just took a look at your character, and he looks good to me. There is one thing, though. There's a house rule here that almost anything with a number of uses per day can only be used 1/3 of that time in the arena. This is to reflect the fact that in a campaign your character is expected to be in about three fights a day.
NiQil 10-24-05, 10:59 PM	Actually, the above quote was ment for Nightbanegod, it's just I know you've done the same thing in the past and what the solution is, so your name just kind of came out. That and you're guilty as the nine hells anyway. Pray tell...exactly what is it that I am guilty of?
Sindorin 10-25-05, 01:47 AM	Sometimes sblock tags are mistyped - they still work mechanically, but if they are written a certain way, Firefox users like mind rogue and myself can't see what you have in your sblocks. Another I have noticed this problem on is PITTBULL :)
NiQil 10-25-05, 01:50 AM	Sometimes sblock tags are mistyped - they still work mechanically, but if they are written a certain way, Firefox users like mind rogue and myself can't see what you have in your sblocks. Another I have noticed this problem on is PITTBULL :) Take a look at my characters and see if you are having this problem. Until today, I know that I had them fixed from that issue...but I did make some changes due to the Streamlining Initiative that might have caused the issue to come back. If you get a chance, pick a character and check all of it's spoiler blocks and let me know which ones are problematic and I will take a look at them and fix them.
Snommelp 10-25-05, 02:03 AM	Question: A touch spell, such as Inflict Light Wounds, can crit. If a monk/cleric casts IFL and then makes an unarmed attack which scores a critical, do both the attack and the spell crit, or just one?
Luni 10-25-05, 03:26 AM	Question: A touch spell, such as Inflict Light Wounds, can crit. If a monk/cleric casts IFL and then makes an unarmed attack which scores a critical, do both the attack and the spell crit, or just one? Hmm. I'd say just the unarmed attack crits, and the IFW is treated as extra dice, therefore it can't be multiplied. Just my :twocents:
Pittbull 10-25-05, 04:55 AM	@Sindorin: i thought, I fixed it, please tell me which sblock you can't see. BTW just use the AOL-Browser! It always works. ;)
Tellish_of_Ket 10-25-05, 08:01 AM	Question: A touch spell, such as Inflict Light Wounds, can crit. If a monk/cleric casts IFL and then makes an unarmed attack which scores a critical, do both the attack and the spell crit, or just one? Both are doubled. -ToK
SoulLord 10-25-05, 09:18 AM	@Sindorin: i thought, I fixed it, please tell me which sblock you can't see. BTW just use the AOL-Browser! It always works. ;) Goes to a corner and curls himself into a ball. Aol Browser....... Aol Browser....... Aol Browser....... ***If someone offers you to program content for the Aol browser....Kindly refuse
Pittbull 10-25-05, 09:37 AM	:D It works!! :D Really! I no have no problems at all. Exept Cellar's calculater, of course.
Sindorin 10-25-05, 09:41 AM	I'll have to check again - though it was quite a while ago. I was sitting there looking at Laph's sheet and grimacing, and also checking out Willbrock. It's really no big deal if we say you have problems with your sheets - you don't! We're the ones that are too stubborn to click internet explorer open and check really quick :).
Cerebus13 10-25-05, 09:43 AM	Please be sure to close all tags before any sblocks. If you need to change font/color/whatever just do it inside the sblock and Firefox users won't have a problem.
waywreth 10-25-05, 10:01 AM	Ok I'm looking to purchase a flying mount that I can ride at some point and here's what I have priced out. Mount cost: 3,000 gp Defend trick: 200 gp (takes 1 week) Attack trick: 200 gp (takes 1 additional week) Am I'm missing anything?
TelinArtho 10-25-05, 10:05 AM	If you wanted to ride it straight away it will need the tricks for the riding package or the combat riding package.
NiQil 10-25-05, 10:09 AM	Please be sure to close all tags before any sblocks. If you need to change font/color/whatever just do it inside the sblock and Firefox users won't have a problem. There's one problem with this equation. What if you want to modify the sblock itself? As an example: [~color=green][~sblock=Test][/color]blah[/sblock] Comes out like this: blah Does this still cause problems for Firefox users?
waywreth 10-25-05, 10:12 AM	If you wanted to ride it straight away it will need the tricks for the riding package or the combat riding package. So it needs all the tricks in the combat riding package? Blech. My mount is going to be in the shop for over a month at this rate (1/week per trick right?).
TelinArtho 10-25-05, 10:14 AM	That's why it is good to purchase it well in advance of needing it. A CR2 creature can't be used until ECL6 as a mount (unless it is a class ally) - so get it when you are ECL4-5 (3k shouldn't be that much a problem then) and train it during the following weeks.
Cerebus13 10-25-05, 10:17 AM	There's one problem with this equation. What if you want to modify the sblock itself? As an example: [~color=green][~sblock=Test][/color]blah[/sblock] Comes out like this: blah Does this still cause problems for Firefox users?Breaks unfortuantely. Sblocks modified with tags just won't display correctly on Firefox.
SauroGrenom 10-25-05, 10:18 AM	There's one problem with this equation. What if you want to modify the sblock itself? As an example: [~color=green][~sblock=Test][/color]blah[/sblock] Comes out like this: blah Does this still cause problems for Firefox users? Yes it does not open.
Snommelp 10-25-05, 11:04 AM	Both are doubled. -ToK Excellent... not that anyone here needs to worry. Monk multiclass restrictions make this less feasible here than in the gestalt game I'm playing. However, the monsters my gestalt cleric/monk faces are not likely to be very happy. Especially if the fighter/fighter sticks around (the only class that he let gestalt with itself, because it would be funny to see that many feats on one character). In other news, Grik has challenged Aquin and Aquin has accepted. I hope the fight will be enjoyable for all who stop by to watch.
TelinArtho 10-25-05, 11:08 AM	Aquin walks around the city before the match: Here Orcie Orcie Orcie... come take your medicine.
Mind Rogue 10-25-05, 11:12 AM	Pray tell...exactly what is it that I am guilty of? You're guilty of having dangling tags when using SBlocks. The most common reason this happens is that someone decides that they want to have their entire character sheet one color, and they never think to close it before the SBlocks. So yes, with your spoiler with the pretty green header, the header appears green, but I can't open it to read the blah. If you want us to be able to read it, either put a seperate heading above it outside the spoiler, or else leave the header black.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-25-05, 11:16 AM	In other news, Grik has challenged Aquin and Aquin has accepted. I hope the fight will be enjoyable for all who stop by to watch. Aquin walks around the city before the match: Here Orcie Orcie Orcie... come take your medicine. I'm certain the Editor-In-chief of Gladius Weekly will be there to cover that fight. Actually, i think you both are just scared of fighting Pale-Rider and/or Krunch. LOL Actually, speaking of which. How about a team fight then? Grik & Aquin vs Pale and Krunch? -ToK
Snommelp 10-25-05, 11:18 AM	Aquin walks around the city before the match: Here Orcie Orcie Orcie... come take your medicine. Grik stands around near the old coliseum, frightening the people who walk by. "Fishy man get big surprise when I use secret weapon... no one beat amazing fighting turtle!" Grik pulls out a rock. A little boy points out to him that it is in fact a rock and not a turtle at all. "What? Where Gregory go? Here, Gregory..."
Snommelp 10-25-05, 11:21 AM	Tellish: two EL 6 characters against an EL 6 and an EL 5? It would hardly be fair... your characters would be dead before they could blink! :D Maybe later; Grik likes fighting strong opponents.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-25-05, 11:22 AM	Tellish: two EL 6 characters against an EL 6 and an EL 5? It would hardly be fair... your characters would be dead before they could blink! :D Maybe later; Grik likes fighting strong opponents. LOL LOL LOL Dem's fighting word me-boy. Accept my challenge!!! And witness the power of El 5 + El 6 vs your two puny EL 6's. **EDIT: My bad...hehe I'm the one with the two El 6's...doh. Still, since you think it would be such an easy fight, i'm sure you don't mind fight us then right? -ToK
TelinArtho 10-25-05, 11:31 AM	Don't worry Dwarf-boy and bone-girl - once I am done crushing Grik's bonus beneath my feat - I will be happy to drown you... How about next week? I could use the extra funds from defeating Grik...
Tellish_of_Ket 10-25-05, 11:35 AM	Don't worry Dwarf-boy and bone-girl - once I am done crushing Grik's bonus beneath my feat - I will be happy to drown you... How about next week? I could use the extra funds from defeating Grik... Fair enough. Next week it is. For now i'll let you bully the little yung'uns around. Then you face a real opponent next week. -ToK
Snommelp 10-25-05, 11:43 AM	Sounds fun... I'm in, too. At this rate, Grik will be ECL 6 fighting ECL 7 characters in no time.
Enterik 10-25-05, 12:21 PM	...of the mundane +1 sort, can one buy them individually for 40gp apiece?
TelinArtho 10-25-05, 12:27 PM	Yes and no. You can buy 50 of them for the cost of 2301gp. You can buy 5 of them at a time for the cost of 230gp, 1sp and 1 credit You can buy 1 of them at a time for the cost of 46gp, 2cp and 2 credits.
Usurpator 10-25-05, 12:52 PM	There's one problem with this equation. What if you want to modify the sblock itself? As an example: [~color=green][~sblock=Test][/color]blah[/sblock] Aaaargh! My poor programmer/webdesigner heart! :( The proper way: [~color=green] [~sblock=yoursblockname] [~color=red] your text [~/color] [~/sblock] [~/color] I have no idea if that works, but it should, logically...
NiQil 10-25-05, 01:02 PM	Aaaargh! My poor programmer/webdesigner heart! :( The proper way: [~color=green] [~sblock=yoursblockname] [~color=red] your text [~/color] [~/sblock] [~/color] I have no idea if that works, but it should, logically... Yes, that is the way the coding works....the problem lies in the fact that for people who use Firefox, having those open tags outside of the sblock tag causes the sblock to not open for them. Apparantly it's a Firefox bug...but until it is fixed, everyone has to not format their tags in that manner.
Enterik 10-25-05, 01:17 PM	...If one casts darklight upon an arrow, does the effect move with the arrow. Upon reading the text in the SRD3.5, I'm just not sure.
Luni 10-25-05, 01:32 PM	Yes, that is the way the coding works....the problem lies in the fact that for people who use Firefox, having those open tags outside of the sblock tag causes the sblock to not open for them. Apparantly it's a Firefox bug...but until it is fixed, everyone has to not format their tags in that manner. They should just get a real browser. :) I use Opera mostly, firefox occasionaly, 64 bit IE when a new browser is lauched, 32 bit IE when I need to use Microsofts' website.
SoulLord 10-25-05, 01:36 PM	oh well I use firefox mainly.... Nothing like their open in tabs option to scan your sites quickly. and IE when I have to, like in the microsoft sites...
MysticMonk2005 10-25-05, 02:43 PM	<.< All I have is FireFox, I dumped IE and my comp wont let my reinstall it.
NiQil 10-25-05, 03:00 PM	Alright...fixed the coding on my characters....if one of the Firefox users would be so kind as to take a look at one of them (except Kermadec...he has't been updated due to a late fight) and make sure you can see everything, it would be helpful so that I know whether I missed anything.
Myrridin 10-25-05, 03:01 PM	MysticMonk2005: Care to be the guinea pig in my first experiment in Questlording?
Mind Rogue 10-25-05, 03:04 PM	<.< All I have is FireFox, I dumped IE and my comp wont let my reinstall it. I actually tried to do that, but Control Panel wouldn't let me, so I just set IE to "work offline" so I don't have to worry about something else grabbing at it. @Usurpator Yes I know that your example should work and is in better form then NiQil's but isn't it also considered bad form to have nested <Font> tags? You should always close your old font tags before opening the new one so that you don't lose track of them all. Of course, that goes for just about any other tag as well.
Usurpator 10-25-05, 03:12 PM	I actually tried to do that, but Control Panel wouldn't let me, so I just set IE to "work offline" so I don't have to worry about something else grabbing at it. @Usurpator Yes I know that your example should work and is in better form then NiQil's but isn't it also considered bad form to have nested <Font> tags? You should always close your old font tags before opening the new one so that you don't lose track of them all. Of course, that goes for just about any other tag as well. Of course you're right, I only suggested it as a possible solution to the problem, because NiQil other solution looked worse.
Mal-2 10-25-05, 03:19 PM	Hi guys, I'm another new player, so I thought I'd introduce myself. Our group just started up two new D&D games, so I thought this would be a good way to get brushed up on my rules. My first character is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7590416&postcount=509). If anyone feels like looking the character over and giving me any advice (or point out any errors!), I'd appreciate it.
NiQil 10-25-05, 03:20 PM	Of course you're right, I only suggested it as a possible solution to the problem, because NiQil other solution looked worse. LOL my "solution" wasn't a solution...it was a question to see if that scenerio caused a problem.
Mind Rogue 10-25-05, 03:21 PM	Alright...fixed the coding on my characters....if one of the Firefox users would be so kind as to take a look at one of them (except Kermadec...he has't been updated due to a late fight) and make sure you can see everything, it would be helpful so that I know whether I missed anything. The spoilers on Kira, Rue, Ryer, Shirl, Axhind, and Kelsat all work properly. This includes the nested spoilers.
Sunwolf 10-25-05, 03:56 PM	Hi guys, I'm another new player, so I thought I'd introduce myself. Our group just started up two new D&D games, so I thought this would be a good way to get brushed up on my rules. My first character is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7590416&postcount=509). If anyone feels like looking the character over and giving me any advice (or point out any errors!), I'd appreciate it. Welcome Mal-2! Quick look at your character sheet: Stats: you don't get the +1 for level until 4th level Items: personal range tattoos cost double -- force screen is 100, skate is 50gp Creating Psionic Tattoos The creator of a psionic tattoo must have a patch of uncovered skin free of hair and fur, and at least a few containers in which to mix dyes. In addition, he needs special materials, usually to create dyes. The costs for materials and dyes are subsumed in the cost for scribing the psionic tattoo— 25 gp × the level of the power × the level of the manifester. All ingredients and materials used to scribe a psionic tattoo must be fresh and unused. The character must pay the full cost for scribing each psionic tattoo. (Economies of scale do not apply.) The user of the psionic tattoo is both the manifester and the target; therefore, powers that target another creature cannot be stored in psionic tattoo form. Powers with a range of personal can be made into psionic tattoos, but they cost double the price of standard psionic tattoos. The creator must know the power to be placed in the psionic tattoo (or must have the power available in some other form). If manifesting the power would reduce the manifester’s XP total, he pays the XP cost upon beginning the scribing in addition to the experience point cost for making the psionic tattoo itself. The act of scribing triggers the power as if it had been manifested, costing the character an appropriate number of power points. Scribing a psionic tattoo requires one day. Item Creation Feat Required Scribe Tattoo. Check out the streamlining initiative thread. We will be going to a more standard character sheet soon.
NiQil 10-25-05, 04:01 PM	Welcome Mal-2! Quick look at your character sheet: Stats: you don't get the +1 for level until 4th level Items: personal range tattoos cost double -- force screen is 100, skate is 50gp Check out the streamlining initiative thread. We will be going to a more standard character sheet soon. Actually, skate is also 100...it is also has a range of personal unless purchased in crawling tattoo form.
Mal-2 10-25-05, 04:20 PM	Sunwolf: Thanks, fixed. NiQil: I guess I don't understand how that works. If you're not allowed to scribe any tattoo that targets another creature, and spells with a range of personal cost double, what tattoos can be scribed for the 50 gp base price? I thought Skate would be a perfect example, since it allows you to target a creature touched, which would have been designated as the wearer of the tattoo at time of crafting. I'm sure this has been gone over before, but a quick glance through the previous 147 (!!) pages didn't show it. In any case, both tattoos marked up to 100 gp, unspent gold reduced appropriately. I'll take a look at the streamlining initiative. Edit: So, if I bought skate as a crawling tattoo, for 50 gp, I could tap it, have it fall to the ground in my square, then let it touch me, all in the same action? Is that in any way different from using a non-crawling tattoo, other than the narration that goes with it?
NiQil 10-25-05, 04:27 PM	Sunwolf: Thanks, fixed. NiQil: I guess I don't understand how that works. If you're not allowed to scribe any tattoo that targets another creature, and spells with a range of personal cost double, what tattoos can be scribed for the 50 gp base price? I thought Skate would be a perfect example, since it allows you to target a creature touched, which would have been designated as the wearer of the tattoo at time of crafting. I'm sure this has been gone over before, but a quick glance through the previous 147 (!!) pages didn't show it. In any case, both tattoos marked up to 100 gp, unspent gold reduced appropriately. I'll take a look at the streamlining initiative. There was a huge debate over this for the longest time...but in the end Caterane (our GM) decreed that it would be priced as personal in a normal tattoo because of the fact that when used on yourself there is no weight limit, whereas when used on a "creature touched", there is. I am gonna hafta keep the post where he says that linked....every few weeks this pops again, and invariably someone still has the pricing wrong. Not your fault...it's a poorly worded power. Edit to answer your edit: You can certainly do that....the difference being is that in a personal tattoo the effect takes place immediately...so you could use it in the same round if you have not yet moved. In a crawling tattoo, the tattoo "jumps off" of you, and then must attack you with you allowing the attack to hit, which means this occurs after the standard action activation time for the tattoo. This means that the power does not take effect until the following round. So in the case of Skate, you are either paying double for an immediate effect, or paying normal price in a crawling tattoo but have to wait until the following round to be able to use the power.
Mal-2 10-25-05, 04:47 PM	There was a huge debate over this for the longest time...but in the end Caterane (our GM) decreed that it would be priced as personal in a normal tattoo because of the fact that when used on yourself there is no weight limit, whereas when used on a "creature touched", there is. I am gonna hafta keep the post where he says that linked....every few weeks this pops again, and invariably someone still has the pricing wrong. Not your fault...it's a poorly worded power. Thanks! So, any power (other than Skate) that targets a creature is fair game for the 50 gp * manifester level * power level cost. Something like, um, Conceal Thoughts. Skate is a special case because the target is creature touched or personal; and you can't can't create the 'creature touched' version automatically targetting the wearer by DM fiat. Does that sound right?
Mind Rogue 10-25-05, 04:51 PM	There was a huge debate over this for the longest time...but in the end Caterane (our GM) decreed that it would be priced as personal in a normal tattoo because of the fact that when used on yourself there is no weight limit, whereas when used on a "creature touched", there is. I am gonna hafta keep the post where he says that linked....every few weeks this pops again, and invariably someone still has the pricing wrong. Not your fault...it's a poorly worded power. Edit to answer your edit: You can certainly do that....the difference being is that in a personal tattoo the effect takes place immediately...so you could use it in the same round if you have not yet moved. In a crawling tattoo, the tattoo "jumps off" of you, and then must attack you with you allowing the attack to hit, which means this occurs after the standard action activation time for the tattoo. This means that the power does not take effect until the following round. So in the case of Skate, you are either paying double for an immediate effect, or paying normal price in a crawling tattoo but have to wait until the following round to be able to use the power. But now can you come up with a power that wouldn't cost double. I can think of Astral Traveler and nothing else that has a beneficial power that targets another creature, unless you want to make tatoos of Bestow Power.
NiQil 10-25-05, 04:52 PM	Thanks! So, any power (other than Skate) that targets a creature is fair game for the 50 gp * manifester level * power level cost. Something like, um, Conceal Thoughts. Skate is a special case because the target is creature touched or personal; and you can't can't create the 'creature touched' version automatically targetting the wearer by DM fiat. Does that sound right? Mostly. Bear in mind that powers that target a creature can't be put into a normal tattoo, because then they would affect you instead. If you make a tattoo of Energy Ray and set it off....well you just did damage to yourself. They would have to be placed in a crawling tattoo. Confusing, I know. And yes, Skate is a special case.
NiQil 10-25-05, 04:54 PM	But now can you come up with a power that wouldn't cost double. I can think of Astral Traveler and nothing else that has a beneficial power that targets another creature, unless you want to make tatoos of Bestow Power. What does that have to do with anything? Whether one exists or not, personal tattoos still cost double, and powers that target other creatures and do harm still have to be in crawling tattoos. Whether one exists or not, that doesn't change anything.
Mal-2 10-25-05, 04:58 PM	Mostly. Bear in mind that powers that target a creature can't be put into a normal tattoo, because then they would affect you instead. If you make a tattoo of Energy Ray and set it off....well you just did damage to yourself. They would have to be placed in a crawling tattoo. Confusing, I know. And yes, Skate is a special case. Well, yes. That's why I chose Conceal Thoughts as my example. It's the only thing other than Astral Traveller I could find quickly that both has a Target other than 'You', and would be benificial if targetting the wearer. Now I'm curious about this. I'll go through the SRD and make a list of powers that are useful as tattoos in the cheaper form. Is there enough intrest that I should post my findings here?
NiQil 10-25-05, 05:00 PM	Well, yes. That's why I chose Conceal Thoughts as my example. It's the only thing other than Astral Traveller I could find quickly that both has a Target other than 'You', and would be benificial if targetting the wearer. Now I'm curious about this. I'll go through the SRD and make a list of powers that are useful as tattoos in the cheaper form. Is there enough intrest that I should post my findings here? Please do. There is always interest on things we may not have known.
TelinArtho 10-25-05, 05:04 PM	@Usurpator - Human interest story for the Gladius Arena Weekly: Delaria - Winner or Loser? Delaria's had 5 encounters, 2 of which were miniquests for followers. Of the remaining 3, which are arena fights, she is listed as having a record of 1 win, 2 losses - at least according to the Roster. However, here's the breakdown: 1. 3-way fight - Delaria was not the last one standing, but still got a winner's share for the fight. 2. Delaria wins versus Tak the Hungry (though in the original run of the fight she lost). 3. Delaria wins versus Ivelios (though in the original run of the fight, she lost) While seemingly keeping a losing trend, she keeps winning the winner's share...
Luni 10-25-05, 05:10 PM	Can you guys go over Imperi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7307744&postcount=472) for me? I just want to make sure I'm not making any big mistakes.
TelinArtho 10-25-05, 05:17 PM	The only thing I see right off the bat is that you get +2 Natural armor bonus regardless of the form you are in. The rest I'm not sure about because I'm still learning about it.
Mal-2 10-25-05, 05:43 PM	Please do. There is always interest on things we may not have known. Okay, there's not much to work with. I went over all of the 1st through 3rd level powers in the SRD, looking for powers that target a creature or creatures other than the caster. 1st: Astral Traveler, Conceal Thoughts 2nd: Bestow Power, Empathic Transfer, Psionic Repair Damage (only for constructs) 3rd: Time Hop Of those, Astral Traveller, Empathic Transfer, and Time Hop are pretty useless (at least for our purposes). Psionic Levitate is written basically the same way as Skate, so I assume it's out too. Can someone take a look at Concealing Amorpha (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicPowersAtoC.html#concealing-amorpha)? I'm pretty sure it's disqualified for any form of tattoo by the way it's written, but I wasn't 100% sure. Edit: There are, of course, lots of other powers that would qualify, but unless you have a burning desire to find youself stunned, on fire, or worse, you wouldn't put them in a tattoo. :D
Enterik 10-25-05, 08:22 PM	...must one kill a PC and it's companion in order to be victorious in the arena? or just the PC?
One_Winged_Angel 10-25-05, 08:41 PM	...must one kill a PC and it's companion in order to be victorious in the arena? or just the PC? If you actually kill the PC (-10 HP), then you win no matter what. If you would rather knock them both out (- hp), then you again win the fight.
NiQil 10-25-05, 09:15 PM	If you actually kill the PC (-10 HP), then you win no matter what. If you would rather knock them both out (- hp), then you again win the fight. This is not entirely accurate. Animal and familiar allies actions are based on the tricks they know. For animal companions, paladin mounts and familiars, handling the animal is a free action. For other animals, such as those bought or quested for, handling that animal is a standard action. Each animal knows various tricks, based on the Handle Animal skill. Of all of those tricks, only the Defend trick may be done by the animal without a command first being given. That trick will allow the animal to defend its master as long as the master is being threatened. So if the master is at 0 hp or lower, and you attempt to CDG, the animal will use the defend trick to continue attacking you, and if it happens to hit you so that you would fall to -10 before it's master does, then you lose. If not, you win. A neat way around this is to get someone to negative hp and just let them bleed out and back away. The reason for this is, since the master is not conscious to give the order for the animal to attack, it can't. So as long as you don't threaten it's master, it won't come after you.
One_Winged_Angel 10-25-05, 09:54 PM	This is not entirely accurate. Animal and familiar allies actions are based on the tricks they know. For animal companions, paladin mounts and familiars, handling the animal is a free action. For other animals, such as those bought or quested for, handling that animal is a standard action. Each animal knows various tricks, based on the Handle Animal skill. Of all of those tricks, only the Defend trick may be done by the animal without a command first being given. That trick will allow the animal to defend its master as long as the master is being threatened. So if the master is at 0 hp or lower, and you attempt to CDG, the animal will use the defend trick to continue attacking you, and if it happens to hit you so that you would fall to -10 before it's master does, then you lose. If not, you win. A neat way around this is to get someone to negative hp and just let them bleed out and back away. The reason for this is, since the master is not conscious to give the order for the animal to attack, it can't. So as long as you don't threaten it's master, it won't come after you. I was assuming you were still alive and not dying when the other gladiator hit -10.
Vathelokai 10-25-05, 10:55 PM	Well, yes. That's why I chose Conceal Thoughts as my example. It's the only thing other than Astral Traveller I could find quickly that both has a Target other than 'You', and would be benificial if targetting the wearer. Now I'm curious about this. I'll go through the SRD and make a list of powers that are useful as tattoos in the cheaper form. Is there enough intrest that I should post my findings here? I've been doing something similar with spells and posting them to the Arcane Order thread. You could get a hold of the PSI guildmaster and have it put up in the psi guild.
SauroGrenom 10-25-05, 11:05 PM	Okay, there's not much to work with. I went over all of the 1st through 3rd level powers in the SRD, looking for powers that target a creature or creatures other than the caster. 1st: Astral Traveler, Conceal Thoughts 2nd: Bestow Power, Empathic Transfer, Psionic Repair Damage (only for constructs) 3rd: Time Hop Of those, Astral Traveller, Empathic Transfer, and Time Hop are pretty useless (at least for our purposes). Psionic Levitate is written basically the same way as Skate, so I assume it's out too. Can someone take a look at Concealing Amorpha (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicPowersAtoC.html#concealing-amorpha)? I'm pretty sure it's disqualified for any form of tattoo by the way it's written, but I wasn't 100% sure. Edit: There are, of course, lots of other powers that would qualify, but unless you have a burning desire to find youself stunned, on fire, or worse, you wouldn't put them in a tattoo. :D If you put together such a list, I would post it in the Psi Guild thread for the benefit of all those who are psionic characters.
SauroGrenom 10-25-05, 11:06 PM	What is the CoCo opinion of multiclassing monks? Do we have the monk multiclassing prohibition?
NiQil 10-25-05, 11:12 PM	What is the CoCo opinion of multiclassing monks? Do we have the monk multiclassing prohibition? To my knowledge, yes....monks and paladins are still held to multi-class restrictions as listed in the SRD and PHB.
Snommelp 10-25-05, 11:53 PM	What is the CoCo opinion of multiclassing monks? Do we have the monk multiclassing prohibition? I think you're thinking what I was thinking when I asked that question a few weeks ago. I got the same answer that NiQil just gave you: "I think so."
One_Winged_Angel 10-25-05, 11:57 PM	I think you're thinking what I was thinking when I asked that question a few weeks ago. I got the same answer that NiQil just gave you: "I think so." Well, take it from an old timer: the rule of multiclassing monks and palis is enforced fully. If you take levels in another class, you can no longer advance in palidin or monk classes
NiQil 10-25-05, 11:57 PM	I think you're thinking what I was thinking when I asked that question a few weeks ago. I got the same answer that NiQil just gave you: "I think so." Well, I know for certain that the alignment restrictions of classes are still in effect...I see no reason that Cat would waive the multi-class restrictions...though I have never actually asked.
Sindorin 10-26-05, 12:15 AM	It is crystal clear in the rules that once you stop taking levels in paladin or monk, you cannot take levels in the class you left earlier again. Crystal.
Guildmaster (TLT) 10-26-05, 01:20 AM	If anyone wants to join The Living Tree (http://boards.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=501578), PM me or Luni. I think Cat wants to get things going soon. Requirements: Must love/respect nature 1-Any Neutral 2-Any one of a-Know: nature 5 Ranks b-Survival 5 Ranks c-Wild Empathy
Guildmaster (WAR) 10-26-05, 01:58 AM	Ah, advertising. There's nothing quite like it, especially when it's free. Since my esteemed colleague from the Living Tree has brought up the subject, I would like to remind everyone that the Warfare Alliance is also accepting applications. All alignments are welcome. The requirements are as follows: Base Attack Bonus +2 One of the following All Martial Weapons All Monk Weapons War Domain So if your character enjoys smashing things the old fashioned way, without any of that magical nonsense, send a PM to me and I'll get you on the applicant list. I should mention, though, that after the first five members, all members for any guild will have to mini-quest as an added requirement. The quest is waived for those first five members.
Luni 10-26-05, 05:01 AM	Spells Gained at a New Level: Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, she gains two spells of her choice to add to her spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels she can cast. If she has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from her specialty school. I found a few wizards who forgot about this. Uhme [Caterane] Aranor [Sindorin] Va'ria [Sindorin] I'll attribute it to oversight though. Also, we have 2 Gatekeepers on the roster. Surprisingly, we have very few specialized wizards on the roster. I think they are outnumbered by the fighters.
Guildmaster (PSI) 10-26-05, 08:55 AM	I would also like to repeat the announcement that the PSI Consortium (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=517706) is still accepting members. So far we only have three members. Please think about us, and submit a psionic character to the guild. You do not need to be a member of a psionic class or continuing to take levels in a psionic class. You only need to have a pp reserve or psi-like abilities and be of non-good alignment. If you would like to get into the guild without a mini quest, then now is the time to speak up. We have accepted all of the applicants so far.
Tellish_of_Ket 10-26-05, 09:00 AM	Very disturbing... There are no ECL 6 or ECL 7 characters ready this week. Is everyone afraid to face Krunch? Aquin is challenging an ECL 5, and Talari is MQ for allies. :( How is Balbanes feeling? It would be like a challenge without spending any credits because we'd be the only two active characters at that level. I'm a melee guy for cryin' out loud. I would think all casters would be jumping at the chance to thrash me and prove their superiority. :D <hint hint, Va'ria> I'd even go as far as saying i'd challenge two ECL 5's, but the pickings are slim, even there. I didn't realize i scared everyone off. LOL LOL -ToK
Caterane 10-26-05, 09:26 AM	As you have surely noticed, there's a Character Changes thread up which - provided you get the OK - allows you to change a feat, skills, etc on your sheet. The requirements for the OK were very narrow so far (never used, affected by rules change) but now you can pay credits - 5 to be exact - if it isn't that clear. You still need a more or less satisfying reason. I will never allow tactical feat changes. From now on, please include the credit cost in your request so that I know that you're aware of it. No one wants to retire a high level character just because he made some minor mistakes during his carreer. I think it is not unreasonable to assume that some DMs would allow such a change. Think credits = pizza you have to bring your DM to allow it :D
SoulLord 10-26-05, 09:39 AM	Very disturbing... There are no ECL 6 or ECL 7 characters ready this week. Is everyone afraid to face Krunch? Aquin is challenging an ECL 5, and Talari is MQ for allies. :( How is Balbanes feeling? It would be like a challenge without spending any credits because we'd be the only two active characters at that level. I'm a melee guy for cryin' out loud. I would think all casters would be jumping at the chance to thrash me and prove their superiority. :D <hint hint, Va'ria> I'd even go as far as saying i'd challenge two ECL 5's, but the pickings are slim, even there. I didn't realize i scared everyone off. LOL LOL -ToK Didn't Krunch get the message? all ecl 6 or 7 characters are suposed to be questing ;) Really.
waywreth 10-26-05, 09:46 AM	Ok I want to pay to train a mount for combat riding. Combat Riding (DC 20): An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. Training an animal for combat riding takes six weeks. You may also “upgrade” an animal trained for riding to one trained for combat riding by spending three weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal’s previous purpose and any tricks it once knew. Warhorses and riding dogs are already trained to bear riders into combat, and they don’t require any additional training for this purpose. This means it will take 6 weeks of game time, and it will cost me a total of 1200gp (6 tricks x 200gp per trick). Is there any way to do this cheaper? For example I don't care if my animal knows "come" or "down", but they're part of combat riding so do I have to pay for them? Thanks,
Sindorin 10-26-05, 09:55 AM	Very disturbing... There are no ECL 6 or ECL 7 characters ready this week. Is everyone afraid to face Krunch? Aquin is challenging an ECL 5, and Talari is MQ for allies. :( How is Balbanes feeling? It would be like a challenge without spending any credits because we'd be the only two active characters at that level. I'm a melee guy for cryin' out loud. I would think all casters would be jumping at the chance to thrash me and prove their superiority. :D <hint hint, Va'ria> I'd even go as far as saying i'd challenge two ECL 5's, but the pickings are slim, even there. I didn't realize i scared everyone off. LOL LOL -ToK If you want me to I could activate her, but I am already losing lots of credits this week for being behind on Huan's quest and having one of my own questing as well as my two characters in campaigns. Eh, what's one more credit...
TelinArtho 10-26-05, 10:04 AM	Well assuming Daeren's and Kraegin's respective quests are finished - that will be two more 6th level characters.
Caterane 10-26-05, 11:27 AM	Ok I want to pay to train a mount for combat riding. This means it will take 6 weeks of game time, and it will cost me a total of 1200gp (6 tricks x 200gp per trick). Is there any way to do this cheaper? For example I don't care if my animal knows "come" or "down", but they're part of combat riding so do I have to pay for them? Thanks, If it's a basic mount, you can just buy it trained for the same price. If it's not a basic animal, you can either buy the tricks, or train it yourself. This costs 6 weeks, or 3 weeks if it's the riding package from which you can upgrade to combat riding in another 3 weeks.
waywreth 10-26-05, 11:39 AM	If it's a basic mount, you can just buy it trained for the same price. If it's not a basic animal, you can either buy the tricks, or train it yourself. This costs 6 weeks, or 3 weeks if it's the riding package from which you can upgrade to combat riding in another 3 weeks. It's an exotic mount - either a pegasus or more like a griffon.
NiQil 10-26-05, 11:50 AM	As you have surely noticed, there's a Character Changes thread up which - provided you get the OK - allows you to change a feat, skills, etc on your sheet. The requirements for the OK were very narrow so far (never used, affected by rules change) but now you can pay credits - 5 to be exact - if it isn't that clear. You still need a more or less satisfying reason. I will never allow tactical feat changes. From now on, please include the credit cost in your request so that I know that you're aware of it. No one wants to retire a high level character just because he made some minor mistakes during his carreer. I think it is not unreasonable to assume that some DMs would allow such a change. Think credits = pizza you have to bring your DM to allow it :D I just want to clarify this and make sure I understand correctly... If you have a skill/feat, etc on your sheet that you have never used, or if you are forced to change something due to a rules ruling/change or due to an error, then it costs no credits, yes? To make changes to things that might have seen minimal use, or otherwise fall in a gray area, then it is 5º, yes?
Sindorin 10-26-05, 11:59 AM	It's an exotic mount - either a pegasus or more like a griffon. One of my characters has a pegasus and it doesn't need tricks because it is intelligent enough. Check your exomount's INT score to see if you even need the tricks :).
waywreth 10-26-05, 12:04 PM	One of my characters has a pegasus and it doesn't need tricks because it is intelligent enough. Check your exomount's INT score to see if you even need the tricks :). ... I think someone just volunteered for some prison duty. Although intelligent, a griffon/pegasus requires training before it can bear a rider in combat. To be trained, a griffon/pegasus must have a friendly attitude toward the trainer (this can be achieved through a successful Diplomacy check). Training a friendly griffon/pegasus requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check. Riding a griffon/pegasus requires an exotic saddle. A griffon/pegasus can fight while carrying a rider, but the rider cannot also attack unless he or she succeeds on a Ride check. Bold mine... and I think I just answered my own question... yes all 6 feats are required meaning it's 1200gp + cost of the exotic mount, and it will take 6 weeks. Time to start saving up.
Sindorin 10-26-05, 12:05 PM	Oh, I forgot that I had paid a trainer to have it trained during creation. I suppose I should list those tricks there :P
TelinArtho 10-26-05, 02:13 PM	Very disturbing... There are no ECL 6 or ECL 7 characters ready this week. Is everyone afraid to face Krunch? Aquin is challenging an ECL 5, and Talari is MQ for allies. :( How is Balbanes feeling? It would be like a challenge without spending any credits because we'd be the only two active characters at that level. I'm a melee guy for cryin' out loud. I would think all casters would be jumping at the chance to thrash me and prove their superiority. :D <hint hint, Va'ria> I'd even go as far as saying i'd challenge two ECL 5's, but the pickings are slim, even there. I didn't realize i scared everyone off. LOL LOL -ToK Well, Kraegin's quest is done - so there's an ECL 6 character for you.
sloisel 10-26-05, 03:26 PM	... I think someone just volunteered for some prison duty. Bold mine... and I think I just answered my own question... yes all 6 feats are required meaning it's 1200gp + cost of the exotic mount, and it will take 6 weeks. Time to start saving up. Pegasi don't learn tricks. To learn tricks, you have to have an int of 1 or 2. Pegasi have an int of 10. They won't carry you on their back if they're not trained (with appropriate cost, but it's not a bunch of tricks), otherwise they're as smart as an average human ally, and they don't need to learn "defend" or "heel". Sébastien Loisel
Caterane 10-26-05, 03:46 PM	This Tavern is closed. Please continue to post in the new one.