Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Caterane 10-19-06, 06:14 PM	The Core Coliseum Tavern - The 7th Incarnation - http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/Gladius-Tavern2.jpg This is the Tavern of the Core Coliseum. Here, all Characters of Gladius meet to chat, drink, and sometimes even brawl. You can ask questions, talk to others, or write whatever you want as long as it does not violate the Code of Conduct (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=community/coc). You can't really go wrong here. Newcomers who want to make a character should use the Quickstart Guide or read the Rules of Gladius. If you have a question, the Tavern is definately the right place to go. Links to the old Taverns: Core Coliseum Tavern I (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=192697) Core Coliseum Tavern II (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=348562) Core Coliseum Tavern III (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=444341) Core Coliseum Tavern IV (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=525782) Core Coliseum Tavern V (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=571121) Core Coliseum Tavern VI (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=636662)
McJarvis 10-19-06, 06:25 PM	omg first post! :D
Jerrick_QueKiri 10-19-06, 06:31 PM	@ Iced and Hirumajoe: Sorry about not getting your fight up Tuesday like I said I would, but my internet connection failed for two days (Tuesday and Wednesday), and I just now got back from classes.
Papapeperoni 10-19-06, 06:57 PM	Third post!!! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: Or 4th if you count Cateran's one. And I only notice now that I've been with the CoCo for more than one whole year now!!! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: Edit: And I also realize that I've been playing for a year, and still my most powerful character up to date was ECL 5 (Kendal). :blush: :pbbbtt: Salute, --Papapeperoni
McJarvis 10-19-06, 07:35 PM	Third post!!! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: Or 4th if you count Cateran's one. And I only notice now that I've been with the CoCo for more than one whole year now!!! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: Edit: And I also realize that I've been playing for a year, and still my most powerful character up to date was ECL 5 (Kendal). :blush: :pbbbtt: Salute, --Papapeperoni I believe I came to the board first, and I only have ECL 3s ;) Soon to change!
Zevox 10-19-06, 08:07 PM	Quick query - our rules about exotic mounts mention that you can purchased trained versions for more money. But nowhere in them does it list how much extra that costs. So, how much is it to get an exotic mount pre-trained? I'm looking ahead to when Istima and Ceilia want flying mounts and thinking I'll need to do that for Istima (he sure as hell can't train it himself) and may want to for Ceilia (saves 3-6 weeks of training time), so it'd be nice to know how much money they should look to save up for that. Zevox
hogarth 10-19-06, 08:28 PM	Isn't this covered under the NPC services part of the rules? Fees for Animal Trainers: Basic Animals.......50 gp (per trick) Basic Animals......100 gp (per feat change) Basic Animals......100 gp (for skill changes) Giant Eagle........200 gp (per trick) Griffon............250 gp (per trick) Hippogriff.........200 gp (per trick) Giant Owl..........200 gp (per trick) Pegasus............200 gp (per trick) Spider Eater.......500 gp (per trick) Exotic Mounts.....1000 gp (per feat change) Exotic Mounts.....1000 gp (for skill changes) Quick query - our rules about exotic mounts mention that you can purchased trained versions for more money. But nowhere in them does it list how much extra that costs. So, how much is it to get an exotic mount pre-trained? I'm looking ahead to when Istima and Ceilia want flying mounts and thinking I'll need to do that for Istima (he sure as hell can't train it himself) and may want to for Ceilia (saves 3-6 weeks of training time), so it'd be nice to know how much money they should look to save up for that. Zevox
Zevox 10-19-06, 08:31 PM	Isn't this covered under the NPC services part of the rules? Fees for Animal Trainers: Basic Animals.......50 gp (per trick) Basic Animals......100 gp (per feat change) Basic Animals......100 gp (for skill changes) Giant Eagle........200 gp (per trick) Griffon............250 gp (per trick) Hippogriff.........200 gp (per trick) Giant Owl..........200 gp (per trick) Pegasus............200 gp (per trick) Spider Eater.......500 gp (per trick) Exotic Mounts.....1000 gp (per feat change) Exotic Mounts.....1000 gp (for skill changes) Aha. Good point, I'd forgotten about that. Hmm... damn thats pricey: 1,200 gp for the complete Combat Riding Package on most, 1,500 on a Griffon. Istima's stuck with it, but maybe its best to let Ceilia do the training herself after all. Zevox
Caterane 10-20-06, 03:57 AM	TARDIS, our newest member, has submitted a picture which can be found in CoCo Gallery III! +2° for Tardis. If you don't find your picture there don't hesitate and submit it now to my email!
Papapeperoni 10-20-06, 07:29 AM	Do temporary hit points from multiple sources stack (more specifically, Vigor and False Life)? Greetings, --Papapeperoni
Abyssal Stalker 10-20-06, 07:34 AM	When creating a character with monster HD, do I have to take the feats listed in the monster entry, or can I customize them to my liking?
Zevox 10-20-06, 07:36 AM	When creating a character with monster HD, do I have to take the feats listed in the monster entry, or can I customize them to my liking? You can take whatever feats you like, just like with any other character. Though of course racial bonus feats you can't change. Zevox
Zelck 10-20-06, 08:15 AM	Do temporary hit points from multiple sources stack (more specifically, Vigor and False Life)? Greetings, --Papapeperoni Nope, they overlap.
Hirumajoe 10-20-06, 08:49 AM	Hi, So I've thrown my Uncon entry up here. A few bookkeeping details to finish up, like adding up all the gold and such, but its mostly done. I'd appreciate any thoughts or major errors pointed out if people have time. For example, is the Necklace of Adaptation and the Eversmoking bottle too silly? Also, am I correct in assuming that people moving through the smoke cload are going to be slowed to half speed due to poor visibility, unless they have some way of seeing through the smoke (such as with Touchsight?) Thanks, Hirumajoe
Papapeperoni 10-20-06, 09:51 AM	Nope, they overlap. What do you mean by that? Say I got 5 from Vigor and 5 from False Life, what would happen if I got 10 damage? Greetings, --Papapeperoni
Zelck 10-20-06, 10:13 AM	If you had 5 temp HP from Vigor, then cast a 5 temp HP False Life, you'd only have 5 temp HP total. If you get hit by 10 damage, 5 of that gets "soaked" by the temp HP and the rest go to your normal HP. You'd end up with 0 temp HP and max-5 normal HP. If you had 5 temp HP and cast a 10 temp HP Vigor, you'd end up with 10 temp HP. In other words, only the highest one is used, and the rest is ignored.
Hirumajoe 10-20-06, 11:05 AM	Now if you want alot of temporary hit points, the thing to do is have a familiar/psicrystal, manifest Vigor and share it, then use Share pain on your familiar/psicrystal. Effectively doubling vigor. Its kinda like stacking, but not really.
Caterane 10-20-06, 12:07 PM	...in the gallery. Papapeperoni has earned his 2° for submitting a picture. Watch this.
Zelck 10-20-06, 12:37 PM	Now if you want alot of temporary hit points, the thing to do is have a familiar/psicrystal, manifest Vigor and share it, then use Share pain on your familiar/psicrystal. Effectively doubling vigor. Its kinda like stacking, but not really. You'd need to manifest Vigor twice, because you can't "double share" healing or temp HP. You could divide it up between the two though.
Hirumajoe 10-20-06, 12:52 PM	Ah, wasn't aware of that. From the SRD it looks like it would work. I take it thats from a faq or ruling somewhere? Edit: Nevermind. Found the clarification under rules of the game, familiars part two. Thanks for pointing it out.
Zelck 10-20-06, 04:43 PM	I just compiled SauroGrenom's list of archetypes into a guide. We could put it into the Characters of Gladius thread and link it from the quick-start guide to give newbies something to work with (specifically, let them know what they'll probably be facing). However, I'm worried that it could stifle their innovation and either create a bunch of copycats or force people to do gymnastics trying not to fit themselves in an established archetype. Thoughts? Common Archetypes in CoCo When optimizing an arena character, it’s always nice to know what you’ll be going up against. Over time, several character archetypes have emerged in the Core Coliseum. While you shouldn’t feel obliged to follow these archetypes, it’s a good idea to at least think about how your characters can deal with them. Please don’t use this list to constrain your builds, either pigeonholing yourself into one of these archetypes (these archetypes certainly don’t have to represent optimal character design) or away from these archetypes (they cover a LOT of ground and chances are any character made will fall into one of them, especially since I made “gish” and “MacGyver” archetypes :P). They should be used to plan strategies and choices for your builds, and perhaps to serve as inspiration. Build what you want to play, and if it either fits entirely in or out of one or more archetypes, so what? As long as you have fun, that’s all that matters :). Melee Monsters: “Thog smash!” Description: These guys get in close and take you down with lots of melee damage. Most use trips or reach to keep you from getting away. All are capable of shooting painful arrows, but they don’t specialize in it. Many also have mounts or Fly to get them mobile and deal with flying opponents, and to get access to lance charges and/or the double damage Dive attack. A lot of them have access to some way of making themselves larger. Strengths: High melee damage and attack bonus. Usually have good mobility and access to large sizes. Weaknesses: Mediocre ranged capabilities. Dependent on attacking (weak against Blur, high AC, etc). Common Stuff: Reach and/or trip weapons, Improved Trip, Expansion or Enlarge Person, a mount, Psionic Weapon, Dissolving Weapon Examples: Archdevil Asran (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8456786), Dronnar Darkjof (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9863770), Farig (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9517438) Grapple Monsters: “I got you now!” Description: These guys also like to get up close and personal, but instead of smacking you with a painful weapon, they just grab you and don’t let go. They usually have some way of making themselves large for more bonuses. The line between Grapple Monsters and Melee Monsters is often blurred. Melee Monsters often have the ability to grapple with armor spikes, while Grapple Monsters usually carry weapons. Strengths: Phenomenal grapple check. Ignores armor and natural armor, and can take weapons and spells out of play. Weaknesses: Mediocre ranged capabilities. Weak against Freedom of Movement. Common Stuff: Monk, Improved Grapple, Expansion or Enlarge Person, Half-Giant Examples: Sunstroke (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8233659) Ranged Attackers: “You’re in my sights.” Description: These guys try to shoot you full of holes. They usually have some melee capabilities, but those are clearly inferior to their archery. Most use Psionic Shot and Deepcrystal bows to improve their damage. Strengths: High ranged damage and attack bonus. Weaknesses: Mediocre melee capabilities. Dependent on ranged attacks (weak against Wind Wall, Blur, high AC, etc). Common Stuff: Psionic Shot, deepcrystal bows, Rapid Shot Examples: Luken Leonne (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5198254), Monsieur Hood (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8785897) Snipers “You can’t kill what you can’t see.” Description: A bow, and an epic level hide check is all these guys need. They stack max ranks, size bonuses, racial bonuses (forest gnome), feats, and items to achieve ridiculous Hide checks (buffed, +30 for a level 3 character is about on par). Thanks to distance penalties, they can easily shoot you and beat your Spot check even with a -20 penalty to Hide. If you can’t find them somehow, you better hope you have enough healing to outlast their arrows, or you’re going down. Strength: They’re REALLY tough to find. Weaknesses: If you find them, they’re usually not too hard to take down. Weak on maps without cover, although many have the ability to create their own cover through Deeper Darkness or Invisibility. Common Stuff: forest gnome, Compression or Reduce Person, Chameleon, +hide items, bows, Psionic Shot, Invisibility Examples: Mort Noir (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10063498), The Chameleon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9716166 ), Noko (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7743863) Zookeepers “I’m an army of one.” Description: Not only do you have to fight these guys, you also have to fight their army of allies. They’re usually hybrids and have some other trick besides their allies. Strengths: They put a lot of bodies on the field, and usually have another trick they’re really good at. Weaknesses: Those bodies may not be too effective especially at higher levels, and they usually require gold, skill points, and/or feats to obtain and maintain. Common Stuff: Handle Animal or Diplomacy, Leadership, Bag of Tricks Examples: Uilo (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8057185), Reginald Molehusband (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9794756), Tan, Son of Sty (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7342802). Full Casters “My mind will destroy your body.” Description: Full or almost full levels in a spellcaster or manifester class. These guys are weak at lower levels, but really come into their own later on. Plus, they have lots of options. They usually supplement their low HP with defensive spells or powers. Strengths: Many options, including defensive spells, damaging spells, and save-or-die spells. Weaknesses: Low HP, weaker at lower levels due to the 3 Fight Cycle. Common Stuff: full caster classes, stat-boosting items, grey elf Examples: Gaston Dar’ath (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7815237), Leif Goldeneye (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7623545), The Undertaker (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8955577) The Gish “I can do it all.” Description: Gishes can fight or cast spells. A full Cleric or Druid can qualify, and there are some Eldritch Knights and Slayers around too. If you can’t handle physical attacks, they’ll buff themselves and smash you. If you can’t handle spells, they’ll cast spells at you. They’re very versatile and very dangerous. Most are of the melee kind, but some focus on ranged attacks. Strengths: Extremely versatile. Can cast spells and attack, often resulting in synergies. Weaknesses: Can suffer from Multiple Attribute Dependence (MAD). Spell DCs are usually lower than a full caster’s, and they sometimes lose caster levels. Lower BAB, although buffs can offset that. Common Stuff: Divine casters or full BAB and 9/10 caster level prestige classes Examples: The Harvester (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5179961), Nexa (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7020028), Loddick Saffrion (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8100097), Kervan Sheharath (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9625192) MacGyvers “Bet you didn’t expect that.” Description: MacGyvers are characters that don’t fit well into the other categories. They’re extremely diverse. They’re often based around a powerful ability, use high LA monsters, or just use odd strategies. Examples: Samuel Highground (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9625192), Kilpquabjeg (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9659920)
McJarvis 10-20-06, 04:50 PM	compression+reduce person sucks for hider builds(IMO a buff that only adds +5ish to your hide check & reduces damage drastically isn't worth it). I could list a few nice ways to find hiders, if you want to give the new folk some advice.... ECL 3 junk: Animals with scent super high spot(+8 or better) high listen checks(MS is harder to boost & silence is a difficult spell to grab for hiders, usually) protection from arrows. running really fast in hopes of negating their cover(unless they use Deeper Darkness pre-buff) full cover? maybe....if you could like make a little house out of tower shields... Erm. Nevermind that last one. :-)
Zelck 10-20-06, 04:54 PM	compression+reduce person sucks for hider builds(IMO a buff that only adds +5ish to your hide check & reduces damage drastically isn't worth it). I could list a few nice ways to find hiders, if you want to give the new folk some advice.... Sure, I could add a section to each giving suggestions for beating them, although I'd like to extend it to all ECLs and I'll need help on stuff like Gishes. And being smaller really only reduces your damage by like 1 point. Most of your damage is coming on Psionic Shot and other damage adders anyway. The biggest problem with those size reduction spells is their limited duration. As an aside, I'm guessing Arcane Sight auto-detects hiders unless they have non-detection or no magical/psionic equipment, right?
McJarvis 10-20-06, 04:56 PM	Sure, I could add a section to each giving suggestions for beating them. And being smaller really only reduces your damage by like 1 point. Most of your damage is coming on Psionic Shot and other damage adders anyway. The biggest problem with those size reduction spells is their limited duration. added the list of stuff to grab to counter hiders. I guess the extra buff+limited nature of it is always what has deterred me. It might be useful if you got a permenancy on it.
TelinArtho 10-20-06, 04:57 PM	Frequently, as far as I have seen, sniper-type builds rely more on extra damage dice (sneak attack, dissolving weapon, etc) more than the damage of the attack itself. For a 1-level dip into a caster/psionic class you gain the +5 bonus fairly easily - or just use a fairly cheap buffing item (250gp for 5 minutes isn't bad - better if you can use scrolls/powerstones though). Other options are out there, but it is a nice one to have.
McJarvis 10-20-06, 05:05 PM	As an aside, I'm guessing Arcane Sight auto-detects hiders unless they have non-detection or no magical/psionic equipment, right? After reading over the spell, I'd imagine it does something like pinpoint all magical auras in the area. So you know the 5ft square every magical aura is in...but I dunno if that lets you know which one is the hider. Note that Misdirection(2nd level illusion spell) is fully capable of misleading Arcane Sight. I made Mort a bard(spell list/umd) to deal with things like this eventually, actually. :) Also Poe, if he wins the stealth build portion of UnCon, will be something to contest with out there. He uses Dispel Magic to get rid of spells/powers that can find hiders. Ultimately the biggest fear of all stealth builds(outside of blindsight itself) should be Touchsight. I have yet to run a stealth build up to level5- we'll see how it goes when I get there. Telin brings up a good point also- there are two types of Hider builds, though Mort is decidedly the only one in her class. Alpha strikers and the "muahaha you'll never find me" ones... I think I'm quickly going to turn into the Stealth Build guru on this board ;) I love 'im...the way you have to plan everything out, account for every situation.... the way that you CAN for the most part, unlike some other types of builds....
Zelck 10-20-06, 05:33 PM	Yea, Misdirection is nice. I have something else planned for Walden though, even if Cerebral Blind doesn't block Arcane Sight ;).
McJarvis 10-20-06, 05:35 PM	Yea, Misdirection is nice. I have something else planned for Walden though, even if Cerebral Blind doesn't block Arcane Sight ;). psh, don't even talk to me ;) ghosts should be their own archtype...haha As far as the guide for steriotypes- I think it'll be a good thing. I think the characters deserve to know what will be expected of their character...being able to detect invisible foes is not a typical table-top experience kind of thing...at least, usually you don't have to do it alone.(party back-up always helps)
MindWandererB 10-20-06, 06:24 PM	As for examples: Kervan is actually a horrible example of a gish--his combat really isn't good enough. And there are much better grappler builds than Sunstroke (he's much more of a grappling gish).
SauroGrenom 10-20-06, 06:56 PM	You liked the archetypes. I'm flattered. Everyone's got their schtick in CoCo. I think the archetypes idea is something that is usefull to help new members become sucessfull. I help new PSI members out with that info all the time. I make my suggestions on how to deal with each build. I think it also helps them envision what their character is going to strive for in combat. That focus helps them make an effective build. If you are interested I can give a tid-bit here or their that you missed. Things like the elixer of hiding as an item that stacks with everything +10 bonus on hide checks. And the fact that ranged builds typicially have great movement speed or flight or mounts so they can avoid melee. BTW dive attacks only double claw or talon damage. They don't double damage on all attacks.
TheMagister 10-20-06, 07:08 PM	Speaking of being flattered: Mssr. Hood made the list of ranged specialists! :blush: I like the idea behind that section. I don't know about everyone else, but I try to build characters that do things that other characters don't (i.e. - Sdentch and the oversized shield damage, Mssr. Hood and making Fell Shot actually worth it, Rubicanti and the Pyrokineticist flurry/fire touch attacks thing, Tessero Valis and the Warmind Sweeping Strike/Trip/Free Attacks thing). A section like that would make me take some time and look around to see if what I have in mind is already being done by someone else. Also, it would give me ideas ("Oh, but if you did this, that build would be REALLY deadly...") on how to improve existing builds. Great work! TM
hogarth 10-20-06, 08:48 PM	I've got a question: Does an incorporeal creature hiding in the ground count as delaying or leaving the arena? Unfortunately for all those ghosts and shadows out there, I don't see how it's really any different than using Rope Trick or Meld Into Stone (especially Meld Into Stone!) to avoid an enemy. So I'd say there's a 10-round cumulative maximum on moving through objects. Agree or disagree?
SauroGrenom 10-20-06, 08:56 PM	From what I understand you are still in the arena if you are just below the surface or adjacent to the open air sections of the arena. Animals (some dragons) that burrow into the ground are not penalized as far as I know. I understand your point though. A ghost could wait it out inside the ground or a wall. We should probably modify the interpretation. But there are major issues as well. The primary tactics for an incorpreal creature are to get fly bye attack or spring attack and begin and end all turns in an object. This can be countered by readied actions or flight, so it's a perfectly viable way to interact with the opponent evey round. Hmm... I don't know. What are the opinions from other elders?
NiQil 10-20-06, 09:19 PM	From what I understand you are still in the arena if you are just below the surface or adjacent to the open air sections of the arena. Animals (some dragons) that burrow into the ground are not penalized as far as I know. I understand your point though. A ghost could wait it out inside the ground or a wall. We should probably modify the interpretation. But there are major issues as well. The primary tactics for an incorpreal creature are to get fly bye attack or spring attack and begin and end all turns in an object. This can be countered by readied actions or flight, so it's a perfectly viable way to interact with the opponent evey round. Hmm... I don't know. What are the opinions from other elders? As much as I hate to nerf those characters that can do this, I would have to say that if the movement of an incorporeal character takes it into a wall of the arena that borders the outside (in other words, the surrounding outer wall), I would apply the 10 round cumulative disqualification count. I would not count going into the floor, as this can also be done by burrowing creatures and we do not penalize them, nor would I count going into a wall or pillar located inside the arena. Then again, I'm not the expert on this topic, so take that with a grain of salt.
Zelck 10-20-06, 09:46 PM	As for examples: Kervan is actually a horrible example of a gish--his combat really isn't good enough. And there are much better grappler builds than Sunstroke (he's much more of a grappling gish). Give me the names ;). I wanted to present Kervan as a ranged Gish, although I guess I could use Anixx instead (although he's not ranged). I didn't know of any chars that were more Grapple Monsters than Melee Monsters.
SauroGrenom 10-20-06, 09:51 PM	Give me the names ;). I wanted to present Kervan as a ranged Gish, although I guess I could use Anixx instead. I didn't know of any chars that were more Grapple Monsters than Melee Monsters. My character Rebreg is in the graveyard now. He was my first character, and a single class half giant grapple monk. The tactic did OK for a while, but as levels increased, it was getting too expensive with potions. And once flight came into play it was an unworkable stragety.
Zelck 10-20-06, 09:52 PM	As much as I hate to nerf those characters that can do this, I would have to say that if the movement of an incorporeal character takes it into a wall of the arena that borders the outside (in other words, the surrounding outer wall), I would apply the 10 round cumulative disqualification count. I would not count going into the floor, as this can also be done by burrowing creatures and we do not penalize them, nor would I count going into a wall or pillar located inside the arena. It sounds very reasonable, since the outside walls are outside of the map while we don't have set z axis boundaries. However, what about quickly passing through the outside walls to get to the ceiling? If it's done in one turn, does it count as a round in the cumulative DQ count? The ceiling should also be within the arena.
Milov 10-20-06, 11:04 PM	Bit of a question here. Under the description of pixies it states: Pixies as Characters A pixie character exchanges its 1 HD of fey for its first class level. Now then, my question is this. Since Nixies lack a "Nixies as Characters" section, I'm curious as to if this HD exchange affects them as well, due to thier single HD of Fey. Anyone know? Or should I just take this to the ask and elder thread? (If I should have asked there in the first place, sorry.)
Erithmu 10-20-06, 11:16 PM	Grapple monsters: Virgo +20 before buffing ... Other Gish: Morgan, Eraca I normally divide arcane and divine full spellcasters only because divine spellcasters are a different monster unto themselves. 'I' normally use the word Gish in terms of arcane, or psionic. (As do most of the individuals over on the Char. Opti. boards) Most divine Gish are just Druid or Cleric + PrC, and really have their own annoyances. Also I'm kinda surprized that Loddick is getting as much attention as he is. He either hasn't had luck recently, and he didn't make a good showing early on. I guess he had some high profile wins vs Asran and Cyra. *shrugs*
Zelck 10-20-06, 11:26 PM	Well, I'm not picking out the best members of each group as much as trying to get a representative for most aspects of each group (note I put Tan in there, even though his win/loss record isn't that good). I, being new, don't know of any other Psion-based Slayers; hence why I chose Loddick (@Magister: so I really didn't pick Mssr. Hood because I thought he was sweet, although I do think he's pretty sweet ;) ). I'd also prefer to pick currently active characters, so I'll probably stick in Virgo over Rebreg. Splitting up arcane + psionics and divine might be a good idea though. Anyway, if someone can help me with preferably 3 active examples (2 works, I guess, but 3 is better) for each category, I would very much appreciate it :).
MindWandererB 10-20-06, 11:34 PM	My Aerryl is a much better ranged gish. And the best pure grappler I've ever seen is Iced's short-lived Validi Reborn (although he's inactive now). Sunstroke could be on that list, but there should be others, too--ones that are purer warriors.
Zevox 10-20-06, 11:48 PM	I guess he had some high profile wins vs Asran and Cyra. *shrugs* I wouldn't exactly call Asran a "high profile" win. Hes much more so an RP character than a good arena combatant. Though I suppose having Senorda and Arynat around may help improve that now. Heh, looking that over, I find it odd that I can't think of the category for a lot of my characters. Featylec isn't a sniper, archer, or melee monster, but can do any of those; yet hes also not a gish. Destra could be a Zookeeper (after her quest), Gish, or semi-full caster. Eraca could be an archer or a gish (she'll be pretty solidly gish once I get her Bull's Strength and Enlarge Person into her spellbook and she carries scrolls of those, but monetary constraints prevent it for now). Are you sure Asran falls under melee monster? With full bab and 18 dex his archery talent is a little better than mediocre (when he doesn't rapid shoot anyway), and with his leadership friends and the Furies hes almost a Zookeeper. And just where the hell do Annalina and Indrithia fall? And wheres this term "gish" come from anyway? ;) Anyway, if you want other exaples, Virgo Arkazzan and Mer-Man (ECL 10 both) are grapplers (though Mer-Man is also kinda gish-ish, he specializes in that, or did before the "no full natural attack routines in grapples" rule came out). Alagar, Brother of Angosh (ECL 8) is a gish. Saeandithas (ECL 6) is a sniper. Manzarf the Loathsome (ELC 7), Kimahri Ronso (ECL 7), and Krug Butcher (ECL 5) are melee monsters. Va'ria Theladrais and Vandelar the Red (both ECL 10) are full casters. Balbanes Ascended (ECL 9) was the zookeeper way back when (hes the reason everybody started clammering for nerfs to diplomacy allies - just take a look and see for yourself why). Zevox
MindWandererB 10-20-06, 11:57 PM	"Gish" is from the term for githyanki multiclass characters. I think the name just came out of a hat before that. I'm not sure where many of mine fall, either. Aerryl is a gish, but she's also a straight caster. Sunstroke is part grappler, part gish (and he actually grapples only as a side effect--it wasn't in his concept at any time). Kervan will probably end up as a gish, mostly by default (but also a full caster). Besthirah... I really don't know how she'll work, she's sort of a do-it-all-but-magic type. Maya may evolve into a gish after a long period of general suckage (hopefully not that long, although her first fight is a bit discouraging).
Zelck 10-20-06, 11:58 PM	As a brief aside, let's congratulate MindwandererB for officially sacrificing himself for the greater good becoming an elder! :cheer: OK, I'll make some updates when I finish with Kervan vs. The Undertaker. I'll be dividing up Divine from Gish, and will probably need examples for both. So... I guess I'm back to Loddick :P. As for examples, let's try to limit them to mostly recent characters, preferably after the 3FC started. It's OK if it's inactive as long as it's recent. I might also want to put something in about how most characters are hybrids...
Zelck 10-21-06, 12:59 AM	@Vath and Lonewolf: Just be thankful Sauro isn't evil enough to unleash the Half-Red Dragon Half-White Dragon Half-Blue Dragon Half-Green Dragon Bat Swarm on you. :P Got Sonic?
Vathelokai 10-21-06, 01:46 AM	@Vath and Lonewolf: Just be thankful Sauro isn't evil enough to unleash the Half-Red Dragon Half-White Dragon Half-Blue Dragon Half-Green Dragon Bat Swarm on you. :P Got Sonic? Nope. But I do have expiditious retreat.;)
McJarvis 10-21-06, 02:12 AM	Things like the elixer of hiding as an item that stacks with everything +10 bonus on hide checks. doesn't stack with items of + hiding.
Vathelokai 10-21-06, 02:38 AM	Elixir of hiding is a competence bonus. Depending on the item, it might stack. *EDIT* but of course the custom items of skill +x are usually competence (unless you pay extra), but not always.
TheMagister 10-21-06, 02:51 AM	Nope. But I do have expiditious retreat.;) Famous quote: "I don't have to outrun the swarm. I just have to outrun YOU."
Vathelokai 10-21-06, 02:53 AM	Ah, wasn't aware of that. From the SRD it looks like it would work. I take it thats from a faq or ruling somewhere? Edit: Nevermind. Found the clarification under rules of the game, familiars part two. Thanks for pointing it out.Actually The Arcane Order guild's post 13 has a badly written tutorial (by me :embarrass ) on sharing spells. It hasn't been updated for new CoCo house rules (like polymorph), but it includes all the 'rules of the game' info. There's also the alter self guide, the bard countersong guide, the Red Wizard prestige class, casting while grappling, links. Other things comming soon (working on a CoCo edition polymorph guide, and some other half baked stuff).
Stormwind 10-21-06, 03:25 AM	Ultimately the biggest fear of all stealth builds(outside of blindsight itself) should be Touchsight. I have yet to run a stealth build up to level5- we'll see how it goes when I get there. I ran Cyra from level 3 to level 10 (and she is definitely primarily a stealth build). Her single biggest problem was definitely touchsight, particulary on small maps like the cavern map. A large number of the fights that she lost was due to this single psionic power. The only two ways that I have found to deal with touchsight are incorporeality and dispel magic/psionics. I think I'm quickly going to turn into the Stealth Build guru on this board ;) I love 'im...the way you have to plan everything out, account for every situation.... the way that you CAN for the most part, unlike some other types of builds.... Another stealth guru would be welcome. I agree that stealth builds are enormous fun. Planning for a sniper is a very exacting and detailed work ;) Storm
hogarth 10-21-06, 08:48 AM	Give me the names ;). I wanted to present Kervan as a ranged Gish, although I guess I could use Anixx instead (although he's not ranged). I didn't know of any chars that were more Grapple Monsters than Melee Monsters. Milov's character Ventr the Dreamer is a grappling monk. I don't know if that makes him a "monster" or not, though.
hogarth 10-21-06, 08:54 AM	As much as I hate to nerf those characters that can do this, I would have to say that if the movement of an incorporeal character takes it into a wall of the arena that borders the outside (in other words, the surrounding outer wall), I would apply the 10 round cumulative disqualification count. I would not count going into the floor, as this can also be done by burrowing creatures and we do not penalize them, nor would I count going into a wall or pillar located inside the arena. Then again, I'm not the expert on this topic, so take that with a grain of salt. My only comment is: How is this different than a gladiator using Etherealness to move through the floor of the arena? Or using Meld Into Stone to meld into the ground? Both of those are expressly limited to 10 rounds, total. I'd prefer for the rules to be consistent. As it stands, I don't see how burrowing/incorporeal movement is any different. They're all "unhittable" states, so they should all be treated the same. Should I post this to the "Ask an Elder" thread? I'm reluctant to run Varjo's fight until this is resolved.
Zelck 10-21-06, 12:39 PM	*turns on low bandwith mode* My only comment is: How is this different than a gladiator using Etherealness to move through the floor of the arena? Or using Meld Into Stone to meld into the ground? Both of those are expressly limited to 10 rounds, total. I'd prefer for the rules to be consistent. As it stands, I don't see how burrowing/incorporeal movement is any different. They're all "unhittable" states, so they should all be treated the same. Should I post this to the "Ask an Elder" thread? I'm reluctant to run Varjo's fight until this is resolved. Meld Into Stone does NOT run into the 10 round cumulative DQ counter: Can I leave the map by teleporting, plane shifting, etc? You can, but there is a ten-round limit on leaving the Arena. Unlike the 10-round limit to delaying tactics, this limit is cumulative. If you spend a total of ten rounds or more outside the Arena, you automatically lose. "Outside the arena" can mean two things: you are outside the arena if you physically leave it (via Teleport or Dimension Door, for instance), or if you leave the Prime Material Plane (through a spell like Ethereal Jaunt). Note that burrowing into the ground or Melding into some stone part of the Arena does not count as leaving; it would probably count against the non-cumulative 10-round limit on delaying tactics, though. Although you have a point in that it's tough to attack someone who's in the ground...
hogarth 10-21-06, 12:58 PM	*turns on low bandwith mode* Meld Into Stone does NOT run into the 10 round cumulative DQ counter: Although you have a point in that it's tough to attack someone who's in the ground... Huh...that seems pretty unambiguous. Then Cat should change this sentence to reflect that: Important: There is a 10 round limit to any effects which allow a character to leave the map (such as rope trick, etherealness, meld into stone, etc.) Or maybe they should just ditch the cumulative 10 rounds altogether.
Abyssal Stalker 10-21-06, 01:15 PM	How are monster class skills and cross-class skills determined? I can't find anything about this in the SRD.
Zelck 10-21-06, 01:32 PM	How are monster class skills and cross-class skills determined? I can't find anything about this in the SRD. IIRC, a monster's class skills are those listed in its stat block. Everything else are cross-class skills.
Zevox 10-21-06, 01:33 PM	How are monster class skills and cross-class skills determined? I can't find anything about this in the SRD. I believe I recall reading in the MM that skills listed in thier entry are class skills, and everything else is cross-class. I'll take a look and see if I can find it again... Edit: Yep, found it: page 293, under the skills portion of the template guide. Zevox
Abyssal Stalker 10-21-06, 02:59 PM	Thanks guys!
lonewolf 10-22-06, 08:04 AM	due to unforseeable personal events, I have to drop out from the CoCo immediately. Im really sorry for the trouble this is causing, but RL comes first. I may come back on some later date, but dont hold your breath. Here are the tactics for the fight that I was supposed to pitlord this week. Maybe someone else could take it over. Sir Valkin's tactics vs Sunstroke Well this can go a variety of ways, so I'll just need to be flexible. Start off at the default location, mounted on Foreman. First round - summon Overseer (lasts 14 hours). Move onto Overseer at the next opportunity and command Foreman to heel. Okay, now move out, looking for Sunstroke - head towards the center first and go from there - listening as best I can. Once found, Sunstroke's position will determine my course of action: 1. If I can charge at any point - quickdraw the lance and charge. Use Ride by attack to negate provoking AoO if he's expanded (so I just need to worry about him readying) - and finish my movement after attacking by basing him. If I am able to do that - keep a hold of my lance until my next action. If he allows me to stay in melee, quickdraw the shocking longsword - engage in melee for as long as he lets me. 2. If I can't charge, but I can move and attack - do so with my shocking longsword. Overseer and Foreman will attack as well when they can. 3. If Sunstroke is levitating or levitates after engaging with him or is on a roof - break LOS, take off my shield and stow it (put away any weapons in hand as well if needed), draw my bow and engage. If I run out of arrows, take full defense and stay behind cover until he runs out of arrows or he comes down (reequip my shield as well in this scenario). Only fire arrows in rounds where I can full attack. 4. If I am grappled and one or both of Foreman and Overseer are still up - try to pin. If both of them are down - try to break the pin. General notes: I have adamantine armor, so I have DR 3/--. Please use Mounted Combat to negate hits on Overseer and I automatically succeed in using Overseer as cover (in applicable situations). If we are at range and Sunstroke is either on the roof or levitating - have Foreman disengage or at the very least get out of sight. Foreman should only be in melee if the rest of us are there as well. Contingencies: If Overseer or Sir Valkin are hurt to half hit points or less, and we're in melee - use my lay on hands to heal. If this condition exists after lay on hands has been used and we're still in melee - just keep attacking. If we're injured to half hit points or lower and we're at range (either Sunstroke is levitating or on a roof) - break LOS and use my wand to heal us back to full. Do not use my Hand of Glory to see Sunstroke unless I am certain he is invisible (ie - we're in the middle of the town square and I hear something less than 10ft away; Overseer/Foreman smells Sunstroke and we can't see him, etc). Well, I guess that's it. This could easily go in Sunstroke's favor if he decides to grapple. If he decides to make this a ranged battle though, I suspect it will be a long fight - and for that I apologize... Simple tactics here. Start with power stone of Inertial Armor in hand, at the front of the square. Use it, then use power stone of Chameleon, dorje of Vigor, and manifest Defensive Precognition. Move out in search of Valkin with nothing in hand but a power stone of Wall Walker. Never enter intersections, but try to stay at the corners, and always stay close to a building. When I hear him (which I should do a long way off), use the Wall Walker and climb up the nearest building. Once there, snipe at him with my bow. I expect him to eventually move out of my LOS, since he really can't fight me that way. (If not, then repeat until dead.) When he moves, try to follow him by moving from building to building (I can't jump worth anything, so it'll have to be climbing down and climbing up again). Keep Valkin's delay penalty in mind during all this. Repeat until Wall Walker runs out and I lack a shot. When that occurs, manifest Expansion (augmented for duration), use scroll of Mirror Image. Also renew Defensive Procognition and Vigor if they're out or about to run out, heal myself up with CLW wand if I'm injured, and finally use a scroll of Shield [1] and a potion of Protection from Good. Draw guisarme and jump/tumble to the ground. Seek out my opponent, again trying to stay near cover, and ready a trip attempt against Valkin each round. Since we're both seeking melee, this shouldn't take long. Valkin will probably make the first move, with his superior speed. When he moves in for melee, I'll get a readied trip and an AoO to do the same (remember that he opposes this with Ride). Succeed or fail, the next thing to do is drop the guisarme, draw dorje of Vigor, and grapple Valkin with Grip of Iron and Psionic Weapon. Don't bother with pinning, just go for damage--hopefully I can take him down before the Prot. Good wears off and Overseer can attack me. Contingencies: · If Valkin decides to avoid melee when I climb down, use Expeditious Retreat and just go straight for the grapple. It may be possible to sneak up on him, if he's really being evasive. If it's just proving to be completely impossible to catch him this way, just get cover and return fire, falling prone to heal if necessary--don't dismiss Expansion, I'm worried he'll try to trick me into doing so and then going for melee. · Renew Vigor if it is used up or runs out, but only if there's a battle going on or imminent (no need to do so if he's not shooting back at me on the roofs). That's all I can think of. I hope this isn't too painful--depending on Telin's tactics, it may or may not be. Good luck. I had really fun, but I have to concentrate to get my life back on track for now. greets all lonewolf
Hirumajoe 10-22-06, 09:15 AM	@Lonewolf: Best of luck and hope you can get real life straightened out. @General: If you're applying a prestige class which gives +1 effective caster level to a wizard, does the character gain 2 new spells free of charge like a wizard does each level?
Vathelokai 10-22-06, 11:04 AM	@General: If you're applying a prestige class which gives +1 effective caster level to a wizard, does the character gain 2 new spells free of charge like a wizard does each level? At each new wizard level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook.Rules as Written: that is a class feature of the wizard class and no other class, despite their spellcasting ability. Take Loremaster for exampleWhen a new loremaster level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained.the first bold refers to sorcerers/bards (spells known is a game term for sponaneous casters, which is different from spells in a spell book). The second bold clearly lays it out.
Zevox 10-22-06, 11:23 AM	@ lonewolf - Sorry to see you going man :( . Hope whatever it is you need to get sorted out works itself out soon! Good luck! Zevox
Zelck 10-22-06, 12:33 PM	due to unforseeable personal events, I have to drop out from the CoCo immediately. Im really sorry for the trouble this is causing, but RL comes first. I may come back on some later date, but dont hold your breath. I had really fun, but I have to concentrate to get my life back on track for now. greets all lonewolf Aww... good luck, and I hope you come back soon :).
McJarvis 10-22-06, 12:44 PM	Do hiding characters get the +2 invisible bonus to attacks? whoa! nevermind, I just found something way "cooler"
Zelck 10-22-06, 12:46 PM	Nope :P. Makes sense, but it's not in RAW.
False_Keraptis 10-22-06, 06:23 PM	Rules as Written: that is a class feature of the wizard class and no other class Whoa, seriously? That's the interpretation we play here? Ouch.
Zelck 10-22-06, 06:52 PM	Rules as Written: that is a class feature of the wizard class and no other class, despite their spellcasting ability. Take Loremaster for examplethe first bold refers to sorcerers/bards (spells known is a game term for sponaneous casters, which is different from spells in a spell book). The second bold clearly lays it out. Wait... I keep hearing though that the +1 caster levels allow sorcerors to switch out spells at even levels. Is that true?
Vathelokai 10-22-06, 07:07 PM	Wait... I keep hearing though that the +1 caster levels allow sorcerors to switch out spells at even levels. Is that true? Yes; class feature of sorcerers and bardsUpon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered sorcerer level after that (6th, 8th, and so on), a sorcerer can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the sorcerer “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level sorcerer spell the sorcerer can cast. A sorcerer may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level. ------------- Whoa, seriously? That's the interpretation we play here? Ouch.As far as I know that's the rule. Not sure if it's enforced. Anyone want some prison credits?
False_Keraptis 10-23-06, 03:33 AM	Alright, so sorcerors and bards can't swap out spells when they take prestige classes that advance spellcasting? Do I understand that correctly? How about classes like the eldritch knight? Carefully reading the SRD, I can't find anything that says they gain additional spells known, just spells per day; so are sorceror eldritch knights just SOL, or what?
Caterane 10-23-06, 07:19 AM	@lonewolf: Ich bin mir sicher dass dies nicht unser letztes Zusammentreffen sein wird. Bis du zurückkommst werden wir dich vermissen! I'm sure that's not the last time we'll meet. Until you come back, you'll be missed!
Pittbull 10-23-06, 09:12 AM	@L-Wolf: Hope to see back soon! Küss die Hand!....;)
Krytos 10-23-06, 11:25 AM	Hi all! As you can see by my join date, I'm new here. My friend, McJarvis has been trying to get me to join the CoCo for awhile now and I finally gave in joined up. I don't have a character up yet, but hopefully I will have one ready for this week's round.
McJarvis 10-23-06, 11:28 AM	Hi all! As you can see by my join date, I'm new here. My friend, McJarvis has been trying to get me to join the CoCo for awhile now and I finally gave in joined up. I don't have a character up yet, but hopefully I will have one ready for this week's round. [edit- REAL NAMMMMMMM DELETED BECAUSE THIS IS A PUBLIC FORUM!]!!!! It's about time you showed up. Ladies and gentlement: this is the fellow who first faced off against Morty when he was just a fledgling character about 9-10 months ago in a RL arena. :)
Hirumajoe 10-23-06, 11:44 AM	Hi all! As you can see by my join date, I'm new here. My friend, McJarvis has been trying to get me to join the CoCo for awhile now and I finally gave in joined up. I don't have a character up yet, but hopefully I will have one ready for this week's round. Welcome to the CoCo! Hope you enjoy your stay. @All: In other news, I've been looking at the Domain Wizard, variant from UA, and noticed a discrepancy between the SRD and the CoCo rules. The SRD seems to indicate: No Prohibited Schools Unlike a specialist wizard, a domain wizard need not select any prohibited schools or domains. All wizard spells are available to her to learn. While the CoCo UA rules say: Prohibited School: Unlike a specialist wizard, a domain wizard must select only one prohibited school. Is this a known errata or CoCo house rule that I missed somewhere? Thanks, Hirumajoe
McJarvis 10-23-06, 01:03 PM	Has anyone run a successful straight-paladin build? I'm trying to brainstorm ideas(probably power attack/divine might?) but I keep finding it feat-light. I want straight paladin- no multiclassing.
McJarvis 10-23-06, 01:04 PM	Welcome to the CoCo! Hope you enjoy your stay. @All: In other news, I've been looking at the Domain Wizard, variant from UA, and noticed a discrepancy between the SRD and the CoCo rules. The SRD seems to indicate: No Prohibited Schools Unlike a specialist wizard, a domain wizard need not select any prohibited schools or domains. All wizard spells are available to her to learn. While the CoCo UA rules say: Prohibited School: Unlike a specialist wizard, a domain wizard must select only one prohibited school. Is this a known errata or CoCo house rule that I missed somewhere? Thanks, Hirumajoe This is a CoCo house rule due to Domain Wizards being superior in every way to regular wizards if we didn't impliment it. Several UA rules have been re-worded or outright changed for CoCo reasons. ((CoCo has long kept to the idea that credits should never make a character more powerful inheriently. Custom items are still paid for & balanced for the gp they cost...))
Zelck 10-23-06, 01:12 PM	Hi all! As you can see by my join date, I'm new here. My friend, McJarvis has been trying to get me to join the CoCo for awhile now and I finally gave in joined up. I don't have a character up yet, but hopefully I will have one ready for this week's round. Welcome, and enjoy your stay here! :) Has anyone run a successful straight-paladin build? I'm trying to brainstorm ideas(probably power attack/divine might?) but I keep finding it feat-light. I want straight paladin- no multiclassing. Hmm... in CoCo, a straight anything except for a full caster might be a bit underpowered. Paladins don't get much after level 5 except for Improved Mount and a couple extra uses of Smite Evil (remove disease lawl). I'd do a PsiWar2/PalX or Fighter2/PalX build instead, but you don't want that :P.
McJarvis 10-23-06, 01:13 PM	I'd do a PsiWar2/PalX or Fighter2/PalX build instead, but you don't want that :P. RP is a [wait...can I say that here? I don't know...] female dog.
Zelck 10-23-06, 01:16 PM	Well, you don't have to be a full paladin to be a paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html).
hogarth 10-23-06, 01:16 PM	While the CoCo UA rules say: Prohibited School: Unlike a specialist wizard, a domain wizard must select only one prohibited school. Is this a known errata or CoCo house rule that I missed somewhere? It's a house rule that Caterane added.
TelinArtho 10-23-06, 01:23 PM	Has anyone run a successful straight-paladin build? I'm trying to brainstorm ideas(probably power attack/divine might?) but I keep finding it feat-light. I want straight paladin- no multiclassing. The countess Ural was reasonably successful through level 5 as a straight paladin. She had a record of 5 wins and 2 losses, where one of the losses was a 4-person FFA where she took 2nd. Of course, she was planning on being a wizard by the end of her career - but she wanted to be at least Paladin 6 before multiclassing. For feats, like my other paladin, she is a Human. Her feats are Mounted Combat, Quickdraw and Trample. In my opinion Power Attack and Divine Might are good, but not until you get to the higher levels (so you can benefit on 2 attacks per use of Divine Might). Also, since Divine Might isn't a choice for a paladin until they reach the level they can turn undead (4th) - you won't see divine might for a straight paladin until 6th. If you didn't want to use a mounted paladin until they get their special mount, your options are pretty light and Power attack would probably be "necessary." Things like Weapon Focus and combat style feats (Power Attack, Combat Expertise, etc) that open up chains of special maneuvers are probably high on my list - but they will almost always be "secondary" as compared to a fighter who has enough feats to do a fair number of special maneuvers. EDIT - just noticed that my local copy is more current than the posted one. Give me a second to add in the latest info. EDIT 2 - Fixed. Just needed to add in the fight vs Kendal Aphos.
Hirumajoe 10-23-06, 01:27 PM	Has anyone run a successful straight-paladin build? I'm trying to brainstorm ideas(probably power attack/divine might?) but I keep finding it feat-light. I want straight paladin- no multiclassing. Yeah, I agree with Zelck, Fighter 2 or PsiWar 2 are what you need for those feats. Even a human paladin just has too few feats. Problem is you *need* the mounted feats and the divine might feats in order to utilize the paladin's abilities to the fullest. Plus with all that charisma, you'd be foolish not to take the leadership feat. You could try something like: H)Mounted Combat 1)Power Attack 3)Ride by Attack 6)Divine Might 9)Spirited Charge 12)Improved Critical: Lance 15)Leadership 18) Weapon Focus: Lance If you went Fighter 2/Paladin X you can easily fit in Spirited Charge by 3rd, Divine by 6th and leadershp at 9th. The most powerful is arguably the Psiwar 2/ Paladin X, because you can eventually get Deep Impact and other useful psionic abilities. A spirited charing (x3 damage) Paladin with Prescience, Offensive (+2 damage), Divine Might (+cha), a djore of disolving weapon (+4d6 Acid), blessed weapon (automatic success on crit threat rolls), deep impact (touch attack), full BAB power attack (-x to hit, +2x BAB to damage), improved critical: lance, should be able to kill alot of stuff in a single hit.
McJarvis 10-23-06, 01:28 PM	If you didn't want to use a mounted paladin until they get their special mount, your options are pretty light and Power attack would probably be "necessary." Things like Weapon Focus and combat style feats (Power Attack, Combat Expertise, etc) that open up chains of special maneuvers are probably high on my list - but they will almost always be "secondary" as compared to a fighter who has enough feats to do a fair number of special maneuvers. EDIT - just noticed that my local copy is more current than the posted one. Give me a second to add in the latest info. EDIT 2 - Fixed. Just needed to add in the fight vs Kendal Aphos. Cool. Honestly, I'm gonna give a go at that Blackguard Paladin 13/Blackguard X with 5 trade-in levels build I posted about a while ago. I know straight paladin 13 is rough, but I've always wanted to try a seriously "fallen paladin". I'm open to mounted combat the whole way- was just trying to brainstorm ways to make the paladin somewhat effecient.(not looking for a spotless battle record, but I'd like to win at least half my battles)
TelinArtho 10-23-06, 01:34 PM	For those who might be interested in trying out a mounted character and focusing on the lance and spirited charge, I want to suggest something: Focus on getting Fleet of Foot for your mount. It is difficult to get it, but without it - it is almost impossible to set up a charge with a mounted character unless a) your opponent "wants" to be charged or b) you get extremely lucky. * "Wants" can be both your opponent readying for you to charge in or just your opponent standing out in the open because they didn't realize they could get charged... Sir Valkin had numerous 1st round charges on Foreman after he got his Horseshoes of Speed, but if you go back and look at the fights, the only times he got to spirit charge in was opponents being careless. Its a nice offensive maneuver to have, but if you focus on it alone - you will find out very quickly that you have few other tricks. Sir Valkin had plenty of troubles at ECL6, when flight and invisibility became more rampant as well (so I whole-heartedly recommend finding a route to twart invisibility...).
Hirumajoe 10-23-06, 01:44 PM	For those who might be interested in trying out a mounted character and focusing on the lance and spirited charge, I want to suggest something: Focus on getting Fleet of Foot for your mount. It is difficult to get it, but without it - it is almost impossible to set up a charge with a mounted character unless a) your opponent "wants" to be charged or b) you get extremely lucky. * "Wants" can be both your opponent readying for you to charge in or just your opponent standing out in the open because they didn't realize they could get charged... Sir Valkin had numerous 1st round charges on Foreman after he got his Horseshoes of Speed, but if you go back and look at the fights, the only times he got to spirit charge in was opponents being careless. Its a nice offensive maneuver to have, but if you focus on it alone - you will find out very quickly that you have few other tricks. Sir Valkin had plenty of troubles at ECL6, when flight and invisibility became more rampant as well (so I whole-heartedly recommend finding a route to twart invisibility...). So basically you need to spend 4,000 gp and some credits on a saddle of Dex +2, and have your 6 HD feat for your Paladin mount be Fleet of Foot? That's not too hard. Or the other option is have a cohort mount via the leadership feat, where you can ensure a dex 15 and the correct feat choice. I'm personally fond of the Pegasus cohort for a Paladin myself.
Zevox 10-23-06, 02:59 PM	I considered doing a straight Paladin for a while, though he would've been an Aasimar (a homage to the Aasimar Paladin/Knight of the Chalice I entered in the second Creature Competition who made the top 4 of that). Basic idea would have been Divine Might + Pegasus special mount + improved critical (falchion) [w/ bless weapon to auto-crit any evil foes on 15-20] + leadership cohort (probably a spellcaster of some sort), probably later on Powerful Charge. He kinda got ditched after I noticed how bad an Aasimar non-caster would be in the CoCo, though I did contemplate doing a Phrenic Human Paladin with the same basic concept (until Erithmu posted Shadowsong, that is...). Its [Spirited Charge] a nice offensive maneuver to have, but if you focus on it alone - you will find out very quickly that you have few other tricks. And this my friends is why my mounted warrior (Ceilia) has Trample and Cleric spells as well as Spirited Charge :) . Zevox
TARDIS 10-23-06, 03:48 PM	I have a question for you CoCo veterans: What use are quests? I've read the rules on them, and I think I get it, but I don't know what purposes they would serve. I'm not very sure about the allies thing-- I don't know if it would add extra complication or not, and I'm not sure if they're worth it. What things do you all quest for, and why? my current character is Flaeli Stormbriger, linked in my sig. I can't devote time to more than one character right now, but would like to do some questing after my 3 fight cycle clears. What do you suggest? I don't mind helping someone else on a quest, as I cannot think of anything I want at the moment, but I'd like a bit of explaination as to the "why" of quests, since I have a quasi-grasp on the "how."
hogarth 10-23-06, 03:55 PM	Some things in Living Gladius require quests or miniquests to achieve: 1) acquiring handle animal allies, diplomacy allies, leadership cohorts 2) fulfilling the role-play component of certain prestige classes (killing someone to become an Assassin, reading the Talariic Codex for a War Mind, etc.) 3) joining a guild 4) nudging your xp just enough to go up a level but there's also another reason: 5) just for fun and to do something different than arena combat. Usually miniquests are more popular, but some people are willing to pay the credits for a full 3-week quest. I have a question for you CoCo veterans: What use are quests? I've read the rules on them, and I think I get it, but I don't know what purposes they would serve. I'm not very sure about the allies thing-- I don't know if it would add extra complication or not, and I'm not sure if they're worth it. What things do you all quest for, and why? my current character is Flaeli Stormbriger, linked in my sig. I can't devote time to more than one character right now, but would like to do some questing after my 3 fight cycle clears. What do you suggest? I don't mind helping someone else on a quest, as I cannot think of anything I want at the moment, but I'd like a bit of explaination as to the "why" of quests, since I have a quasi-grasp on the "how."
TelinArtho 10-23-06, 03:56 PM	Quests are mostly for roleplay. Once upon a time, people used it for getting specific items, but now, mostly, they are used either for getting new allies or just general roleplay and character development. For the CoCo, the quests should be generating some background, description or something similar so that the places described can be used in the future (even if only in reference). Quests do cost credits, so bear that in mind, unless you are on a mission for a guild. When I run a quest, I try to get a sense of the character's overall purpose, as well as the specific purpose of the quest itself. I try to identify a realistic location for the quest and specify the creatures according to has been developed there thus far and with regard to the terrain.
hogarth 10-23-06, 03:59 PM	Are quests and/or miniquests supposed to count towards a gladiator's win/loss record?
TheMagister 10-23-06, 04:01 PM	No.
McJarvis 10-23-06, 05:27 PM	Can I apply metapsionics to expendible items?(like powerstones, dorjes, etc?)
hogarth 10-23-06, 05:49 PM	Can I apply metapsionics to expendible items?(like powerstones, dorjes, etc?) Quoth the SRD: Psionic Items and Metapsionic Powers With the right psionic item creation feat, you can store a metapsionic power in a power stone, psionic tattoo, or dorje. Level limits for psionic tattoos apply to the power’s higher metapsionic level. A character doesn’t need the appropriate metapsionic feat to activate an item in which a metapsionic power is stored, but does need the metapsionic feat to create such an item.
McJarvis 10-23-06, 06:00 PM	Do people who activate the item need to expend their psionic focus, or is that considered a "part" of the item?
Zelck 10-23-06, 06:04 PM	It's been ruled that you do have to expend your focus so Enlarge Power isn't free on powerstones.
McJarvis 10-23-06, 06:11 PM	It's been ruled that you do have to expend your focus so Enlarge Power isn't free on powerstones. So there isn't much point in self-crafting them that way with my "The Chosen One" character.(he has imprint stone & enlarge power as feats)
Zelck 10-23-06, 06:15 PM	Well, you can't use your own metapsionic feats to affect a power in a powerstone. So, you can't take that normal powerstone of Matter Agitation and enlarge it using your own feat. You can, however, imprint an Enlarged Matter Agitation into the stone.
hogarth 10-23-06, 06:21 PM	It's been ruled that you do have to expend your focus so Enlarge Power isn't free on powerstones. No, it hasn't (as far as I know). The elders talked about it, but decided against it, I think.
MindWandererB 10-23-06, 08:22 PM	No, it hasn't (as far as I know). The elders talked about it, but decided against it, I think. Unfortunately, the Court Decisions hasn't been updated in quite a while. It would, however, be silly for Enlarge to be free--otherwise, it would be on everything. Metapsionics are "cheaper" than metamagic because of the focus component. Edit: In the absence of a ruling on the matter, NiQil, below, is correct.
NiQil 10-23-06, 08:23 PM	It's been ruled that you do have to expend your focus so Enlarge Power isn't free on powerstones. This is very much incorrect. As with all item crafting, the item crafting has to have all of the necessary components built into the item itself in order for it to function properly. This is a function of the magical crafting rules themselves. This does, however, end up making the Enlarge Power feat free to add to psionic items, since it does not increase the pp cost in any way. At one time there was talk about implementing a houserule requiring that the players own focus be used to balance this, but it was later determined that it was not really unbalancing to leave it alone, as Enlarge is not really that powerful of a metapsionic feat, since it only increases the range of a power.
NiQil 10-23-06, 08:24 PM	Unfortunately, the Court Decisions hasn't been updated in quite a while. It would, however, be silly for Enlarge to be free--otherwise, it would be on everything. Metapsionics are "cheaper" than metamagic because of the focus component. It hasn't been updated because there hasn't really been anything to update. If you know of something, feel free to let me know about it. However, as I stated above, by the RAW, the Enlarge Power feat can be applied to psionic items at no increased cost. Anything else is a houserule.
MindWandererB 10-23-06, 08:26 PM	There were some things, but I don't remember them right now. I'll point them out as they come up.
False_Keraptis 10-23-06, 08:34 PM	Quick question relevent to a fight I'm running right now: when riding for cover, one can't attack or cast spells. But, can one manifest psionic powers?
McJarvis 10-23-06, 08:38 PM	Quick question relevent to a fight I'm running right now: when riding for cover, one can't attack or cast spells. But, can one manifest psionic powers? Nothing in the rules says you can't :-)
NiQil 10-23-06, 08:41 PM	Nothing in the rules says you can't :-) Only because the rules were written before psionics existed in this edition. No, you cannot manifest powers in the same way that you cannot cast spells.
False_Keraptis 10-23-06, 08:42 PM	Nothing in the rules says you can't :-) Sigh. Yeah, that's the way I'm leaning. Psionics just has to be better in all ways than arcane magic, doesn't it? :rolleyes:
McJarvis 10-23-06, 08:43 PM	Sigh. Yeah, that's the way I'm leaning. Psionics just has to be better in all ways than arcane magic, doesn't it? :rolleyes: Looks like an elder disagrees with me. I was biased anyway- disregard the part of my tactics that say "get cover" whenever I would be normally manifesting, I guess....
False_Keraptis 10-23-06, 08:44 PM	Only because the rules were written before psionics existed in this edition. No, you cannot manifest powers in the same way that you cannot cast spells. This makes a lot of sense, but is it RAW? Do we a precedent for this as a house rule here?
NiQil 10-23-06, 08:48 PM	This makes a lot of sense, but is it RAW? Do we a precedent for this as a house rule here? In this case it would be an extension of the transparancy rules, as there is no breakdown anywhere for how psionics are treated in relation to the Ride Skill (the XPH doesn't go through each skill, just the ones that got altered or added).
Erithmu 10-23-06, 09:03 PM	Almost ... The rule is that you can't ride for cover during the action. Ie if there is a ready vs manifesting/casting then there is no ride for cover. But if you ride for cover then you can cast/manifest later in the round. See Here. Last sblock(other skill applications), under ride and mounted combat.
McJarvis 10-23-06, 09:10 PM	Almost ... The rule is that you can't ride for cover during the action. Ie if there is a ready vs manifesting/casting then there is no ride for cover. But if you ride for cover then you can cast/manifest later in the round. See Here. Last sblock(other skill applications), under ride and mounted combat. Huh...good to know. So are there two different positions? Like "riding normally" and "riding with cover"? Thus: Turn start. Manifest/cast (whatever) use ride check to gain cover.(dc15 ride) end turn. next turn: turn start. stop using cover. manifest/cast use rick check to gain cover(dc15 ride). end. Or can you use it to react to attacks...(during your opponents turn)?
MindWandererB 10-23-06, 09:16 PM	It's typically reactive only, so you only can't do it in the case of simultaneous action (i.e. ready actions) or while casting a full-round spell (or manifesting a full-round power).
McJarvis 10-23-06, 09:22 PM	It's typically reactive only, so you only can't do it in the case of simultaneous action (i.e. ready actions) or while casting a full-round spell (or manifesting a full-round power). So the only way to use it is "if someone is attacking me, I may take a dc15 ride check to get a +4 cover bonus to AC, so long as I'm not flat footed & aware of the attack"?
MindWandererB 10-23-06, 09:56 PM	No, no. Rather, the only way to negate it is, "I ready an attack when my opponent does X," where X is pretty much anything but move. You can use your mount for cover any time you're not specifically caught in the middle of something else.
McJarvis 10-23-06, 10:03 PM	No, no. Rather, the only way to negate it is, "I ready an attack when my opponent does X," where X is pretty much anything but move. You can use your mount for cover any time you're not specifically caught in the middle of something else. oh! good, then my tactics for the ascended one are not in error then :)
TARDIS 10-23-06, 10:17 PM	Psionics is not really superior to arcane magic in every way--- not by a long shot. It does really outshine arcane magic in a few big ways, but it has its weaknesses as well. 1) Psionics makes infinately more sense than divine or arcane magic, becase it was designed as a cohesive, total system first and then the powers were designed within the constraints of that system. Existing arcane/divine magic is more of a case where each spell is a unique rule that only broadly follows a system. 2) Psionics is inherently more flexible than arcane/divine magics in its power scaling system. You can manifest many powers at different levels to get different results. Thus, while the crystal shard power may be the equivalent of a 1st level spell early on, with a 10 pp augmentation it becomes equivalent to a 6th level spell in terms of power. Since all of your "oomph" comes not from inflexible spell slots but a fluid power point base, you have incredible choice when it comes to how to best apply it. 3) Psionics do not scale automatically. This is a very, VERY important corollary to point 2. Divine/arcane magic automatically scales with level, while psionic powers do not. Thus, a fireball spell cast at level 10 deals 10d6 damage. To deal an equivalent amount of damage with an Energy Burst power, you must pay 10 pp, which is the equivalent of two (2) level 3 spell slots. As every spell that scales does so automaticaly, they are inherently more efficient than their psionic counterparts. There are a few exceptions here and there, but in general the point holds true. 4) Psionic powers are incredibly flexible, but purposefully limited in certain areas. For example, divine magic has THE monopoly on healing effects and buff spells. There are quite a few good psionic buff powers, but they do not stack up to a cleric or druid's ability to buff. Nor are psionics very good at dealing with anything necromantic in nature, and the psionic "illusion" equivalents are sorely lacking when compared to their arcane/divine counterparts. All three subsystems have their defined niches, and in general they hold onto them fairly well, at least in the core ruleset. 5) Psionics are not affected by armor. This is a major advantage for the psionicist, but not overwhelmingly so. Consider this: while psionics has a decent range of defensive powers (thicken skin, defensive precognition, force screen, etc.), to get full effect from those powers you must augment them heavily, drawing resources away from other areas. It is true that a fully buffed out manifester is a thing of terror, but consider the cost, not only in pp but in actions. ACTIONS are the true currency of the game, and in the time it takes for a buff sequence to go off, an arcanist could have completely annihilated the psion. {steps down from soapbox} Thank you for being such a great audience, I'll be here all week! :D
TARDIS 10-23-06, 10:22 PM	On a less didactic/inflammatory note: How does one determine how many credits one has?
MindWandererB 10-23-06, 10:26 PM	On a less didactic/inflammatory note: How does one determine how many credits one has? Post #5 of the Character thread. You have 2, I see.
McJarvis 10-23-06, 11:38 PM	Does full-action crafting count towards the 3FC? My Chosen One seems to have used up an awful lot of expendibles on his current fight and I'd like to see him finish out his 3FC in one piece. :-O
False_Keraptis 10-23-06, 11:49 PM	Psionics is not really superior to arcane magic in every way [..] it has its weaknesses as well. Well, I guess it's not literally better in every way, but it's definitely better overall in my view. Everything a psion casts is silent, still, and component-free, so getting grappled isn't all that scary, stealth is much easier, and you can wear armor. Heck, just get the ubiquitous mithril shirt and you don't even need to spend a feat to do it. Your familiar costs a feat, yes, but it has a hardness and it functions as a universal translator (not so great in CoCo, but quite nice in TT play). For direct damage spells, the psion usually gets an extra +1 damage per die, and he can pick the energy type, which is a huge advantage that is very costly and difficult for an arcanist to match. On top of this, the psion gets better class skills than the wizard. You make a good point about the free scaling that arcanists get, but even that isn't totally in the arcanist's favor: a wizard has to spend low level slots on low level spells while a psion can smash them all together to get another high-level spell or two. As you said, actions are extremely valuable, so this can be an advantage. I will say that psionics doesn't measure up item-creation-wise to arcane magic in the CoCo, but mostly because we play RAW, and the psionic item list is lacking in a lot of areas. But in TT play, I think most people would let a psion craft items from the DMG provided they had an appropriate power. Sorry to bring up an argument that I'm sure this board (and every other) has seen a thousand times.
Erithmu 10-24-06, 12:01 AM	Does full-action crafting count towards the 3FC? Full action casting can only be done outside of 3FC You can still craft under 1000gp market as a free action
Krytos 10-24-06, 12:49 AM	Thanks for the welcomes everyone. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be able to have a character ready for this week. I would prefer to take a week and maybe get some advice on things that I may have messed up on. It all depends on how things turn out tomorrow. But for now, sleep time.
Zevox 10-24-06, 12:55 AM	Full action casting can only be done outside of 3FC You can still craft under 1000gp market as a free action ...but won't get to use those items until after your current cycle is complete. Sorry, had to add that, just in case :) . Zevox
Gonbow 10-24-06, 01:58 AM	@False Keraptis One of the big disadvantages to Psionics is the changed wording of some identical spells vs their Arcane versions. (Although sometimes this is an advantage) The most notable that I know of is Dispel Psionics. Read it carefully and you'll find there is no mention of using Dispel Psionics to counter other powers as they are manifested, a fairly key Dispel Magic use in any kind of ally-enabled battle. Devote your action to preventing theirs and let your allies beat unrestricted? Yeah, advantage Wizards since they can counter your manifestation but you cant counter their spells.
Zelck 10-24-06, 02:25 AM	@False Keraptis One of the big disadvantages to Psionics is the changed wording of some identical spells vs their Arcane versions. (Although sometimes this is an advantage) The most notable that I know of is Dispel Psionics. Read it carefully and you'll find there is no mention of using Dispel Psionics to counter other powers as they are manifested, a fairly key Dispel Magic use in any kind of ally-enabled battle. Devote your action to preventing theirs and let your allies beat unrestricted? Yeah, advantage Wizards since they can counter your manifestation but you cant counter their spells. Well, Psionics can't be countered either, so there's a plus for them. Still, you really can't argue for the vast array of arcane spells compared to divine spells. Solid Fog? Black Tentacles? *drool*.
TheMagister 10-24-06, 07:35 AM	I think the ONLY way that Psionicists are superior to Arcane Casters is in the method of their power usage. If Arcanists had the same "spell point" system that Psionics is based on ... well, we don't want to think about that kind of total domination now, do we? (This statement is really a re-statement of TARDIS' post earlier, and is posted as a statement of agreement with his opinions. Also, the use of the word "ONLY" above is referring to general superiority, and not "niche" superiority.)
tunagolem 10-24-06, 08:41 AM	Do PCs in the UnCon Contest need to pay credits for magic items or UA rules?
Zevox 10-24-06, 09:13 AM	Do PCs in the UnCon Contest need to pay credits for magic items or UA rules? They don't need to pay for UA variants (or being level 7), but they cannot use anything other than those which costs credits (e.g. custom magic items, custom allies, etc). Zevox
Traevanon 10-24-06, 09:59 AM	Khabil Barukh v2 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9601503&postcount=869) Apparently I'm not going to be able to hold interest in this one until he gets to level 5 and gets Fly. Really it was just a test to see exactly *how* weak the levels before 5 would be without a level of Fighter, Ranger, Paladin or Barb. Its possible that a Cleric *needs* either a Wand of CLW, a horse and/or the Magic Domain to survive here. Version 3 is likely to have at least two of those things. Version 3 will get a new name too, just in case I want to come back to this one. Well, I'm off to the Character Board. Any suggestions? Requests? Got any pictures lying around?
McJarvis 10-24-06, 10:24 AM	The Chosen One of Gladius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10211898&postcount=943) steps into the Tavarn. She is covered from head to toe in blood and is wincing in pain with every step. "I barely got out alive....it was horrible...with every shot I knew my doom was near...every arrow that my mind had to deflect...but I preveiled..." Walking over to the bar she throws a gold piece on the counter. "For the use of your nicest mage-cleaner, good sir... She then makes her way to the back of the tavarn, where the prestidigitation boy awaited her.... The hunt for Maya was over. She whispers to herself: "I know not why the voice from beyond had wanted me to approach this battle- but I do know it couldn't get much worse than that.." In reference to this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10440301&postcount=158) battle-- dang. We really hosed each other :(
TelinArtho 10-24-06, 10:28 AM	@Traevanon - "survive" is the questionable term here, but I'll say that all of my clerics survived through their careers with moderate success without any of those: Kraegin - ECL9, Cleric 7, Thaumaturgist 2 - Evil and War domains. Tlanth - ECL3, Cleric 3 - Strength and War domains - two-weapon fighting (retired after 2 fights - didn't like the design) Vakkor - ECL5, Cleric 5 - Strength and War domains - used centipede allies Delaria - ECL6, Cleric 6 - Strength and War domains - used scrolls (before Expendable cap was implemented), also diplomacy allies before rules change. Anakala - ECL 5, Cleric 5 - Strength and War domains - used diplomacy allies None of them even had spontaneous casting to benefit from cure spells that way. Kraegin picked up his first Wand of CLW at around ECL7-8 and Anakala just picked one up at ECL4 or 5 - none of the rest had one. A mounted cleric might be a nice thing to try - but without a dip in a class with HA and Ride - it might not be worth the effort and diplomacy is a class skill for clerics - which makes diplomacy allies easier to get. Just a thought.
Hirumajoe 10-24-06, 11:49 AM	Khabil Barukh v2 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9601503&postcount=869) Apparently I'm not going to be able to hold interest in this one until he gets to level 5 and gets Fly. Really it was just a test to see exactly *how* weak the levels before 5 would be without a level of Fighter, Ranger, Paladin or Barb. Its possible that a Cleric *needs* either a Wand of CLW, a horse and/or the Magic Domain to survive here. Version 3 is likely to have at least two of those things. Version 3 will get a new name too, just in case I want to come back to this one. Well, I'm off to the Character Board. Any suggestions? Requests? Got any pictures lying around? Certainly Khabil needs a method for dealing with highly mobile ranged attackers. Especially on the plains. I feel sorry for Khabil running into Valen twice on that map. Perhaps instead of the Artifice domain, take the war domain with a god who favors the Longbow? Free martial feat and free weapon focus. A level 3 Cleric with even just a 14 Dex would get you +6 to hit with a masterwork Composite Longbow. Plus it works well with Fly at later levels. Just my 2 cents.
Traevanon 10-24-06, 12:12 PM	Does a Ranger/Druid have to quest for their Animal Companion? It would seem contrary to the RAW which only requires a 24 hour prayer. They dont even have to go the pet store! ;) @Hiruma - Yeah, the plains have been a pain. I think I have fought more than half of my battles on that map. A greater problem is that heavy armor doesnt turn out to be much better than Mage Armor + Shield Spell or Mithral Shirt + Force Screen. Another problem is record keeping. He uses too much stuff! I get tired of editing him all the time. War Domain would have been a waste becase level 6 in his build is a Fighter level, and he wanted to use a Dwarven Waraxe with a Comp. Longbow. Version 1 had a Fighter level built in at level 2. I think I am going to go with a NE Goblin Ranger next.
Zevox 10-24-06, 12:32 PM	Does a Ranger/Druid have to quest for their Animal Companion? It would seem contrary to the RAW which only requires a 24 hour prayer. They dont even have to go the pet store! ;) Nope. Only allies without an existing method of obtainin them (e.g. the Druid 24 hor ritual for companion, the Wizard summoning his familiar, etc) need to be quested for. Zevox
Krytos 10-24-06, 02:58 PM	Hey all, I have a character ready for this week's fights afterall. Any advice would be helpful. Roy Kadeer
hogarth 10-24-06, 03:13 PM	Hey all, I have a character ready for this week's fights afterall. Any advice would be helpful. Roy Kadeer I think it was ruled that the only types of dragonhide armor are hide, breastplate and full plate. So there are no dragonhide chain shirts. Nope, I was wrong. On a personal note, are you sure you want 6 scrolls of Summon Nature's Ally I? They only last for one round. Also, I'm disgusted by your animal companion with Deflect Arrows. Well done. :D
MindWandererB 10-24-06, 03:13 PM	Hey all, I have a character ready for this week's fights afterall. Any advice would be helpful. Roy Kadeer I think Ride skill is pretty important on halfling druids, but it's really just preference. Although take a look at Little Daisy for some tips. She's not summoning-focused, but she still mught be helpful for a look-see. I think it was ruled that the only types of dragonhide armor are hide, breastplate and full plate. So there are no dragonhide chain shirts.Unfortunately, the decision ende up being the reverse. It's in the Court Decisions. I happen to disagree (you try explaining to me how you can make chain links out of dragon hide), but I lost the last argument.
McJarvis 10-24-06, 03:15 PM	I think it was ruled that the only types of dragonhide armor are hide, breastplate and full plate. So there are no dragonhide chain shirts. On a personal note, are you sure you want 6 scrolls of Summon Nature's Ally I? They only last for one round. Also, I'm disgusted by your animal companion with Deflect Arrows. Well done. :D I'm pretty sure there was no ruling, just people saying "it ought to be such and such a way" here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6918469) is an example of a character that used Chain Shirt dragonhide her entire career- last fight was in feb.
TheMagister 10-24-06, 03:44 PM	Hey all, I have a character ready for this week's fights afterall. Any advice would be helpful. Roy Kadeer Well, a focused conjurer (summoner) would probably want to summon animals. You might choose to add that spell to your memorized spell list. Those scrolls of summon nature's ally [cl1] will only last for 1 round each. Not too good of a return, especially when they take a full-round action to cast. You might want to invest in [cl2] scrolls, even if they cost more. I'm one of those people who look sideways at "dragonhide" chain shirts. I'm not certain what the consensus was among the CoCo peeps; perhaps Niqil can chime in here to refresh our memory (Niqil's the Prisonlord). That's all I can see with a quick glance. TM
MindWandererB 10-24-06, 03:46 PM	Well, a focused conjurer (summoner) would probably want to summon animals. You might choose to add that spell to your memorized spell list.Kind of pointless due to spontaneous casting of SNA spells.
TheMagister 10-24-06, 03:46 PM	Kind of pointless due to spontaneous casting of SNA spells. Duh. {slaps forehead} Sorry.
Krytos 10-24-06, 03:58 PM	Thanks for the advice guys. I think I'll ditch those SNA 1 scrolls, I forgot to check the duration on those. I also think I'll switch Augment Summoning for Mounted Combat. I plan on picking up Augment later though, summoning is just a little weak at lower levels.
TheMagister 10-24-06, 05:04 PM	Wow, we're kinda short on pitlords this week. I'd volunteer, but I'm gonna be out of town starting Saturday; I'll barely have time to get tactics written. I'll be able to contribute again Wednesday after next, though. TM
TARDIS 10-24-06, 05:23 PM	I will also be available to pitlord a fight or two as well soon... I'm currently relocating to Japan, so it won't be for about two to three weeks, but after that I should have the time to regularly do one or two fights a week.
Krytos 10-24-06, 06:26 PM	Finished switching my expendables around. I picked up a couple of Shield of Faiths and Cure Light Wounds potions. Can't wait for my first fight. :D
Zevox 10-24-06, 11:12 PM	How about classes like the eldritch knight? Carefully reading the SRD, I can't find anything that says they gain additional spells known, just spells per day; so are sorceror eldritch knights just SOL, or what? I noticed no one responded to this, so I'd just like to bring it back up (mostly because it affects my future character, Mithos Durrol, who I was planning on making a Paladin of Tyrrany/Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight). Is this the case for Sorcerer Eldritch Knights? Edit: Actually, another one I've been meaning to ask - whats the craft DC on non-masterwork arrows? I can't seem to find one, and I'm hoping to have Ceilia crafting silver and cold iron ones with her one extra fighter rank I tossed into Craft (Bowmaking). Zevox
MindWandererB 10-24-06, 11:26 PM	My inclination is to assume they meant the same thing here as they did everywhere else. For instance, very few of the PrCs say anything about increased caster level (only the Arcane Trickster does, IIRC), but it comes with the territory. I'd also personally allow sorcerers with PrCs to swap spells as normal, since swapping spells isn't a class feature per se, but rather, part of their "spells" feature. Wizards with PrCs, IMO, would not get additional spells in their spellbook because that function is part of their "spellbooks" class feature (not "spells").
Erithmu 10-24-06, 11:38 PM	I'd like to go on record as saying that we should choose to do this RAI over RAW. I find it very odd that while 'as written' wizards wouldn't add spells, yet most of the players do so. Perhaps it should be taken to the elder thread, as I'm sure this would come back later on.
Zevox 10-24-06, 11:54 PM	Erm, actually, I was asking if Sorcerer/Eldritch Knights got new spells known; not if Wizards got free spellbook spells (though that is one I disagree with as is) or Sorcerers got to swap spells. I'm not worried about that - I'm worried about if they get to learn new spells beyond the ones they have when they enter the PrC (i.e. its kinda useless to become an Eldritch Knight as a Sorcerer 6 if you're never going to learn any 4th level+ spells by taking levels in it...). Zevox
False_Keraptis 10-25-06, 12:27 AM	Erm, actually, I was asking if Sorcerer/Eldritch Knights got new spells known; As written, it's clear that they don't. Contrast the language in the eldritch knight description: From 2nd level on, when a new eldritch knight level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. with the language for the archmage: When a new archmage level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class in which he could cast 7th-level spells before he added the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. (emphasis mine) That said, I think this is utterly asinine and totally contrary to RAI. We absolutely need to house rule this one. Further, while we're house-ruling away this nonsense, we ought to give the prestige wizard back his 2 spells/level. Conflict of interest disclosure: I have a wizard character eyeing eventual advancement into loremaster. Edit: Added emphasis in quote above.
McJarvis 10-25-06, 01:23 AM	Regarding being low on pitlords- I won't be running any characters this coming week(Mort got pulled over- I still need to think on what to do about Chosen getting ripped a new one), but running the same # of fights.
Papapeperoni 10-25-06, 12:26 PM	If there is a difference between one of the core books and the SRD, what do we use? And which errate do we use? --Papapeperoni
MindWandererB 10-25-06, 12:36 PM	That's what I meant, too (among other things). I'm of the opinion that every PrC that says "+1 level of existing class" in the "Spells per Day" column uses the same mechanic, regardless of whether they remembered to phrase it right in the text (because they almost never do). Re: Crafting arrows: looking at the table, they should be either DC 12 or DC 15. Probably 12, since it should be no harder to make arrows than bows. Since Celia has a +5 bonus, there should be no argument about whether she can do it. @Papa: Use the book and the official errata (here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a)) if there's a conflict. @McJarvis: You think Chosen got beat up? Look at Maya! With her +3 attack and 20' speed, she's in pretty poor shape after that fight. I didn't count on having a dead horse right off the bat. I really should have just left it out after I forgot to prebuff--or better yet, dismounted and split up.
McJarvis 10-25-06, 04:35 PM	@McJarvis: You think Chosen got beat up? Look at Maya! With her +3 attack and 20' speed, she's in pretty poor shape after that fight. I didn't count on having a dead horse right off the bat. I really should have just left it out after I forgot to prebuff--or better yet, dismounted and split up. I think we both got beat up. With only enough powerpoints to shoot off two more energy missiles, I don't think Chosen will last through his third fight. I might wait for that new guild to form, then ask for a EL 1 mission to join :-)
Zevox 10-25-06, 04:42 PM	I think we both got beat up. With only enough powerpoints to shoot off two more energy missiles, I don't think Chosen will last through his third fight. I might wait for that new guild to form, then ask for a EL 1 mission to join :-) Eh, just in case that wasn't all joke, you can't do that. Quests/miniquests to join a Guild have to have an EL at least equal to your ECL. Zevox
Zevox 10-25-06, 04:51 PM	That said, I think this is utterly asinine and totally contrary to RAI. We absolutely need to house rule this one. Further, while we're house-ruling away this nonsense, we ought to give the prestige wizard back his 2 spells/level. Conflict of interest disclosure: I have a wizard character eyeing eventual advancement into loremaster. That's what I meant, too (among other things). I'm of the opinion that every PrC that says "+1 level of existing class" in the "Spells per Day" column uses the same mechanic, regardless of whether they remembered to phrase it right in the text (because they almost never do). I see. So then the general consensus is that the wording of that paragraph is in error, and Sorcerers will gain spells known then? Can I take that as an official ruling (*looks at MWB's fancy new title tag* :D )? I'd really like to know for sure here, since my plan for Mithos will hinge on this (if I can get this, he'll do it, but if not I'll probably cough up credits for the Battle Sorcerer variant since it works better on its own with his concept than just going straight sorcerer after the paladin of tyrrany levels). Zevox
MindWandererB 10-25-06, 04:59 PM	And besides, it's looking like you might be the guildmaster of the new guild, McJarvis. If so, your character won't need an entry MQ (assuming you only have one character join). Plug at everyone: don't forget to vote! The poll closes Monday at 11 AM GMT, so you still have time, but eariler is better! I know most of you have already voted, but I also know we have more than 17 members here. Perhaps not everyone is interested in joining any guild (and please don't vote, in that case), but if you are interested, please cast your vote. @Zevox: Well, since I do have that tag now, I guess you can. And if I get overruled later on, it'll be an "official change," and you can get related things changed in the Changes thread for free.
TheMagister 10-25-06, 06:08 PM	I have to share this. It strikes me as pretty good. Tell me what you think! Character History: The world is wondrously new to Rubicanti. Or rather, Rubicanti is new to the world. After his rebirth as an Elan, Rubicanti chose to hone his new young body in the martial fighting arts. The result was a blindingly fast meld of hyper-coordination and psionic awareness. This blend of the mental and physical realms of combat catapulted him to the top of his class in the mysterious Elan society’s training programs. They quickly judged him ready and capable to re-experience the world and released him decades before normal. Too soon. Too soon. With the body of a tween male child and the combination of his past experiences and discipline of his physical training, Rubicanti is nevertheless having trouble coming to grips with the chaotic diversity of the wide world. Drunk with his success in the Gladius Arena, this serious-appearing young man is slowly spinning out of control. His winnings in the Arena support him lavishly, according him comforts and pleasures counter-productive to the austere and disciplined life of a martial artist. He finds himself drawn irresistibly to the Gladius Ironworks, where the intense pace and flickering dance of the flames seems to wash over his senses like a heady balm. The varied tasks; the shouted communication; the laughter of the workmen – all the confusion controlled and channeled into one direction: the use of flame to destroy and melt; to reform and remake. The process fascinates Rubicanti, and he begs his way into working the smelting pot, stoking the flames and stirring the molten slag as it seperates into iron, brass, and pot metal. The blasts of heat and sound comfort him. The work reduces the confusing world into a small universe of controlled chaos. The destroying power of fire harnessed and made to create items of beauty…and death. More and more he finds himself staring into the furnace. Daily he moves closer to the heat, singeing his clothes (but not his flesh!). The dance of the inferno entices him. The shimmering air calls to him softly. The psychic power in his mind reaches out…
False_Keraptis 10-25-06, 08:11 PM	A quick technical question: I just changed browsers to Firefox 2.0 and now I can't see any images in posts. Anybody have a guess what's causing this or how to fix it? I like Firefox a lot, but if I can't see the map images in battles, forget about it. Thanks.
MindWandererB 10-25-06, 08:13 PM	It's not a Firefox issue--mine works fine. Is "Load Images" turned on? (Tools-Options-Content)
False_Keraptis 10-25-06, 08:14 PM	It's not a Firefox issue--mine works fine. Is "Load Images" turned on? (Tools-Options-Content) Yep. (as in, "yep, it's on," not "yep, that fixed it.")
McJarvis 10-25-06, 11:54 PM	Eh, just in case that wasn't all joke, you can't do that. Quests/miniquests to join a Guild have to have an EL at least equal to your ECL. Zevox Yeah. A joke. *runs & hides his own ignorance in a dark veil of deceit* :) So lower EL quests are more or less just for RP purposes? That's fine by me too. Can those be included in 3FC's?
Zevox 10-26-06, 12:09 AM	So lower EL quests are more or less just for RP purposes? That's fine by me too. Can those be included in 3FC's? As a matter of fact, no, they cannot, for obvious balance reasons. That was something that happened when 3 fight cycles were first initiated - a couple of us presumed that the clause about that meant that was the only way aroundthe cycle, and so did lower-EL MQs to level up (at the time the ruling was going to be that you had to wait until your cycle finished to level up). That was part of what lead to the mid-cycle leveling rules we have now. Zevox
McJarvis 10-26-06, 12:18 AM	And besides, it's looking like you might be the guildmaster of the new guild, McJarvis. If so, your character won't need an entry MQ (assuming you only have one character join). If I am declared guildmaster, I'll at least want Mort Noir(Or Poe if he wins? I'm not terribly confident in his chances for taking the top 4...) to do a quest(don't care about the EL) that will establish the RP for founding it. I'll probably want Chosen to miniquest to join just to dodge losing fight ratings so early on in his career(if I'm not mistaken this time- win or lose, it doesn't count towards his ratings) I'm semi-self concious about ratings, and would hate to see Chosen's plummet merely because he was under-equiped :) I see RP as the most important aspects of Guilds...and I've wanted to break into Questing/Campaigning for a LONG time, but feared it before because I was not a "rules lawyer" in the typical sense. I'm a bit more confident in my abilities now.
Hirumajoe 10-26-06, 11:59 AM	Looking for some good pairings to take advantage of the new group rules. Here's some the things I've been thinking about/discussing: True Neutral Aasimar Bard and True Neutral Tiefling Arcane Trickster. Lots of skills, ok spells but not much in the punch department. Although LA and casting don't really mix. Although it would make for some interesting background story... The Party Pair: Take two High Cha classes, have them both grab Leadership at 6th, so that you have two ECL 6 characters with two ECL 4 Characters. A complete adventuring party. A Paladin 6, Bard 6, Druid 4, Wizard 4 (Specialist?) would cover most of the classic roles. Problem is the equipment spread is going to be painful. You'd also have the Paladin Mount, Druid animal companion and the Wizard's Familiar. That's 7 people to buff with Bard song, not including summons. However, I'm wondering if this many people on one side would drive Pitlords crazy? Keep it simple: A basic warrior type and a basic caster type, say a straight Fighter and a straight Wizard. Fighter goes battlefield control route with Spiked Chain and Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, etc. Wizard does a mixture of buff and Save or Die. Such a combo should be able to take on just about anything I think. And would be much less stress on the pitlord. Thoughts?
Stormwind 10-26-06, 12:13 PM	I am stepping down as guildmaster of WAR at the end of this month. Anyone who is interested in taking up the mantle of Guildmaster for WAR should send a PM to Cat. Storm
Traevanon 10-27-06, 09:37 AM	A quickie: Ranger (at half) and Druid levels stack for the purpose of Animal companion right? Thus a 4th level Ranger, 2nd level Druid would have an animal companion equivalent to a 4th level Druid correct? Or would they have 2 separate companions....
SauroGrenom 10-27-06, 10:06 AM	A quickie: Ranger (at half) and Druid levels stack for the purpose of Animal companion right? Thus a 4th level Ranger, 2nd level Druid would have an animal companion equivalent to a 4th level Druid correct? Or would they have 2 separate companions.... They stack.
hogarth 10-27-06, 11:00 AM	I noticed in Archangel Ixenthor's guild miniquest that he's using a Symbol of Pain. In the Core Coliseum, is there any penalty for a Paladin knowingly utilising an effect with the [Evil] descriptor?
TheMagister 10-27-06, 11:24 AM	I noticed in Archangel Ixenthor's guild miniquest that he's using a Symbol of Pain. In the Core Coliseum, is there any penalty for a Paladin knowingly utilising an effect with the [Evil] descriptor? If there isn't, there should be. RAW, it should cause the paladin lose access to his powers and require an atonement spell to gain back his status. TM
UserNamer 10-27-06, 11:31 AM	I had a question about the Uncon game: if I take leadership feat, can i take a sutumized ally? and if not, what should i be taking, i mean leadership allies ar ealways custumized, rite?
hogarth 10-27-06, 11:36 AM	I had a question about the Uncon game: if I take leadership feat, can i take a sutumized ally? and if not, what should i be taking, i mean leadership allies ar ealways custumized, rite? Yes, you can have a leadership cohort if you want. "No customized allies" just means "no customized skills or feats for Diplomacy/Handle Animal/purchased allies". (I asked the same question in the "Uncon Questions" thread.)
Zevox 10-27-06, 01:04 PM	I noticed in Archangel Ixenthor's guild miniquest that he's using a Symbol of Pain. In the Core Coliseum, is there any penalty for a Paladin knowingly utilising an effect with the [Evil] descriptor? We'd handle it by the rules as written of course. The problem is that, while casting an evil spell is clearly defined as an evil act, its not so clear if Ixenthor considered to be doing likewise by using one that someone else cast. I'd say certainly yes he is myself, since hes choosing consciously to use the spell, in which case his Paladin powers go bye-bye until he atones, but I'd guess some may argue othewise. Zevox
hogarth 10-27-06, 01:09 PM	We'd handle it by the rules as written of course. The problem is that, while casting an evil spell is clearly defined as an evil act, its not so clear if Ixenthor considered to be doing likewise by using one that someone else cast. I'd say certainly yes he is myself, since hes choosing consciously to use the spell, in which case his Paladin powers go bye-bye until he atones, but I'd guess some may argue othewise. I think paying someone else to commit an evil act on your behalf qualifies as evil. Otherwise the Church of Heironeous could be the biggest customer of the Assassin's Guild and no one would blink an eye!
Zevox 10-27-06, 01:12 PM	I think paying someone else to commit an evil act on your behalf qualifies as evil. Otherwise the Church of Heironeous could be the biggest customer of the Assassin's Guild and no one would blink an eye! An excellent point :) . Someone want to PM Cat/Erithmu with this in case they miss it? It'll be important to them one way or the other. Zevox
Erithmu 10-27-06, 03:33 PM	I see it, there is another issue that might resolve the situation.
McJarvis 10-28-06, 03:42 AM	Out of curiosity- does anyone know why Golems, Shield Guardians, Retrievers, & Animated objects don't get feats for having hd?(other than they just don't have them in the MM?) Because they're mindless- that's why. Rules of the Game articles are amazing :)
Papapeperoni 10-28-06, 04:13 AM	Sarissa Tinyfey is up in the UnCon contest! Could anyone check him out for me please? I had a better feat in mind than Weapon Focus, but now I can't seem to recall it :(. Thanks, --Papapeperoni
Zevox 10-28-06, 08:51 AM	Sarissa Tinyfey is up in the UnCon contest! Could anyone check him out for me please? I had a better feat in mind than Weapon Focus, but now I can't seem to recall it :(. Thanks, --Papapeperoni You should probably seperate your sneak attack damage from your weapon damage - you will not always get it (anyone with See Invisibiliy can potentially deny it to you, and some creatures (such as undead) are immune to it. Likewise removing the +2 invisible bonus (again, won't always get it) would be wise, and seperating the 1d6 shocking from the 1d6 your crossbow does would probably be a good idea (and noting that its electric damage). Just list the invisibility bonus and sneak attack damage as modifiers either next to the attacks or in a nearby section of the sheet. Oh, and since Pixies are listed as using longbows in thier monster entries, they are automatically proficient with those, if you'd rather have that than a crossbow (would free up that feat you used on Rapid Reload). Lastly, you forgot to do your accounting - your money is still listed as 20,000 gp on your sheet. Zevox
UserNamer 10-28-06, 10:25 AM	if i build a cohort with leadership, wut poiint buy do i use? and if i take followers, what point buy should i give them?
Hirumajoe 10-28-06, 10:37 AM	You get 25 points to customize Leadership allies. This can be found in this post. As for followers, I have no clue. I'm not sure they're allowed to be brought into battle.
Zelck 10-28-06, 11:24 AM	Did we decide whether a spellcaster can cast spells while Spider Climbing? Or do something else that requires a hand if he's not moving? Also, does offensive prescience apply to dissipating touch if you assign your psicrystal as the toucher? By the way, the numbering of the starting locations for the caverns map in the characters thread and in Dracazar's map maker differ.
McJarvis 10-28-06, 02:57 PM	Krytos just pointed out somethin in the quickstart guide to me- Is ECL 3 and 4 restricted from using credits now? I didn't catch when that official decision was made...just when the discussion was held.
hogarth 10-28-06, 03:10 PM	Krytos just pointed out somethin in the quickstart guide to me- Is ECL 3 and 4 restricted from using credits now? I didn't catch when that official decision was made...just when the discussion was held. If it's in the rules, that means the official decision was made. Don't always expect a trumpet fanfare or something like that. :P
McJarvis 10-28-06, 03:32 PM	If it's in the rules, that means the official decision was made. Don't always expect a trumpet fanfare or something like that. :P Well, it was implied by the quickstart guide but I couldn't find anything else in the rules...
Zevox 10-28-06, 06:55 PM	As for followers, I have no clue. I'm not sure they're allowed to be brought into battle. They're allowed, and use use 25 point buy. Note that the rule states that all leadership allies use 25 point buy, not just the cohort, which extends that to followers too. Did we decide whether a spellcaster can cast spells while Spider Climbing? Or do something else that requires a hand if he's not moving? I don't recall that being an issue ever - there've been many fights I've seen with casters spider climbing and casting once they stop moving. Zevox
Hirumajoe 10-28-06, 07:25 PM	Here's a question: How do the new group or party rules interact with the attack and defend automatic skill packages? Assuming a 2 character party versus 1 character 2 ECLs above how do the packages interact? Does the 1 character side have to beat both sets of opposing skill sets or just one to get an effect? Does he get an effect against both (say double Assassinate effects?) or just once? How do the skills on the 2 character side work? Assuming only 1 character has the skills to meet a package, does only that character get the advantage or both assuming it affects that side? Do both characters need a package to get any effect? If they both were to have the Assassinate effect, would they both get one free attack? Such clarifications would be handy to know when trying to plan characters for a team. Thanks, Hirumajoe
hogarth 10-28-06, 07:29 PM	Here's a question: How do the new group or party rules interact with the attack and defend automatic skill packages? I believe the attack/defend packages only apply to 1-on-1 battles, but I could be misremembering. [P.S. Has Papapepperoni sent in his tactics for Grakkar vs. Reginald Molehusband yet?]
Hirumajoe 10-28-06, 07:33 PM	@Hogarth: Yes he has. I'll probably get a chance to start the fight tonight after my daughter is asleep. Won't guarantee finishing it tonight though. In regards to the skill packages, if its 1-on-1 fights only, then you can design a party in the knowledge that you'll never run into traps, be outmanuevered, etc? Seems a bit rough against skill characters.
renlim 10-28-06, 11:28 PM	Hey folks I'm new to the CoCo. heres my Character. Corbin the Free If you have any sugestions or ideas let me know I'd love to hear what you have to say. Thanks! -renlim
McJarvis 10-28-06, 11:34 PM	Hey folks I'm new to the CoCo. heres my Character. Corbin the Free If you have any sugestions or ideas let me know I'd love to hear what you have to say. Thanks! -renlim Heyya Marr! ( ;) ) Great to see you here! Welcome to CoCo :-)
Vathelokai 10-28-06, 11:48 PM	Hey folks I'm new to the CoCo. heres my Character. Corbin the Free If you have any sugestions or ideas let me know I'd love to hear what you have to say. Thanks! -renlim Welcome to the Coliseum. Don't might the heated and bitter arguements; we're really all very friendly :rolleyes: Archer cleric; havn't seen one of those before. Mithral chain shirt is only a 4 armor bonus, not 5; I'd recommend going with something heavier, since you can and you're speed won't change that much (with your mount). I'd carry more arrows, since you have to make it through 3 fights before buying more (yeah you have 100, but at low levels archers around here end up in lots of 'I have to roll a 20 to hit' fights; watch out for armor buffers). I'd recommend against the scrolls of sleep; all magic items (except staffs) use the minimum DC possible (which means minimum stat needed to make the scroll) so the save on them is only DC 11. In general you want to memorize the DC dependant spells and make scrolls out of the things that have longer durration and only effect yourself. Your cleric domains are not listed; I can tell you have travel from the spells prepared, but the other is... I guess magic since you have wizard scrolls. You should keep in mind that the travel domain special power only works against 'magical entangeling effects' and won't get you out of a grapple; read it closely (basicly that means grease, web and solid fog). I'd recommend darkness domain over travel (blindfight and blacklight will never be regretted). Or death (repose) if you are doing a straight cleric build.
McJarvis 10-29-06, 12:00 AM	You should keep in mind that the travel domain special power only works against 'magical entangeling effects' and won't get you out of a grapple; read it closely (basicly that means grease, web and solid fog). :-O I totally never caught that before. Guess its good I've never played a cleric :-) Sorry to R for the bad advice all these years...
hogarth 10-29-06, 12:01 AM	I'd recommend against the scrolls of sleep; all magic items (except staffs) use the minimum DC possible (which means minimum stat needed to make the scroll) so the save on them is only DC 11. Also, Sleep spells don't take effect until your next turn, so enemies can usually leave the area of effect before it occurs. And elves are immune. So I don't think I'd bother with too many Sleep scrolls. (I tried it myself with my character Kilpquabjeg.) I'd recommend darkness domain over travel (blindfight and blacklight will never be regretted). Or death (repose) if you are doing a straight cleric build. On the other hand, I think Travel is a better domain than Darkness (I don't think Blindfight is as good as auto-escaping Entangle and Hold Person, and you can use arcane spells of Blacklight if you have the Magic domain).
McJarvis 10-29-06, 12:02 AM	Welcome to the Coliseum. Don't might the heated and bitter arguements; we're really all very friendly :rolleyes: Yeah. No bitter people around here :-)
renlim 10-29-06, 01:05 AM	Wow the board moves quick around here! I have a couple things to look at... Um can i even get scrolls/wands of blacklight? I don't see them in the SRD. And Darkness domain looks really tempting, in place of magic, but well see what happens...
TheMagister 10-29-06, 01:28 AM	Wow the board moves quick around here! I have a couple things to look at... Um can i even get scrolls/wands of blacklight? I don't see them in the SRD. And Darkness domain looks really tempting, in place of magic, but well see what happens... Scrolls: if you can craft them. If you can't, then they count as specialized items and you must pay credits for them (5o apiece, iirc). Wands: only with credits (same as above), since they're not listed in the SRD or DMG. Much weeping and gnashing of teeth accompanies this rule, as the outcry for wands of entangle and faerie fire filled the arena mightily upon its enforcement. =) Good luck!
Vathelokai 10-29-06, 08:20 AM	:-O I totally never caught that (travel domain power limitation) before. Guess its good I've never played a cleric :-) Sorry to R for the bad advice all these years... I didn't realize it until a couple weeks ago; Denshi wanted to escape a mean nasty grappling harvester, and I was informed that I misread it. I'd allow it in a home game, but not here. Always feels good to learn something new.
hogarth 10-29-06, 08:20 AM	Scrolls: if you can craft them. If you can't, then they count as specialized items and you must pay credits for them (5o apiece, iirc). I thought you could buy any scroll you liked (as long as you have the appropriate caster level and/or character level), but wands, staffs, psicrowns, potions and oils were restricted to the ones in the SRD. Here's what it says in the Blackmarket thread: You may pay credits to get the right to buy Custom Potions, Oils, and Tattoos. You may pay 1° per 2 CL the Potion/Oil/Tattoo is above your ECL (max 20). Normally, you may only buy Potions and Tattoos with a CL up to your ECL. If the requested Potion or Oil is also not specifically listed in the DMG,p230 you have to pay an additional credit for aquiring a custom potion or oil. Note that neither potions nor oils can be made of a spell with a range of 'personal'. Example: Oil of Aid [CL ], Potion of Sanctuary [CL 5], Oil of protection from energy [CL 20] You may pay credits to get the right to buy Custom Scrolls and Powerstones. Normally, you are only allowed to buy Scrolls or Stones of up to your CL+2. You can pay 1° per CL to buy scrolls or stones with a higher CL than allowed. Note that two spells on one scroll still count as two custom items as do several custom powers stored within one powerstone! Example: Scroll of Aid [CL 10], Stone of inertial armor [ML 8] You may pay credits to get the right to buy Custom Spell Trigger Items. For wands, dorjes, psicrowns, staffs, etc you have to pay 5° per CL above your ECL. Normally, you can only buy Spell Trigger items with a CL up to your ECL and only those listed in the books (exception: dorjes). If you want to create your own custom item not mentioned in the books, you have to pay 5° to have them contain any spell/power allowed up to a CL equal to your ECL (unless you pay credits for the higher CL, as described). Example: Dorje of expansion [ML 11], Psicrown of Astral Legion [ML 15], Wand of shocking grasp [CL 5]. I bolded the places where it mentions "only those listed in the books".
Vathelokai 10-29-06, 08:24 AM	Wow the board moves quick around here! I have a couple things to look at... Um can i even get scrolls/wands of blacklight? I don't see them in the SRD. And Darkness domain looks really tempting, in place of magic, but well see what happens... Blacklight is in the Divine section of the SRD. Look here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/divineNewSpells.html). There are also some interesting spells in the Psionic section of the SRD; check here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionic.html) and scroll to bottom. As mentioned above, magic items with these spells may cost credits, since they are not in the magic item list in the DMG.
Vathelokai 10-29-06, 09:13 AM	TRAVEL DOMAIN Granted Powers: For a total time per day of 1 round per cleric level you possess, you can act normally regardless of magical effects that impede movement as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement. This effect occurs automatically as soon as it applies, lasts until it runs out or is no longer needed, and can operate multiple times per day (up to the total daily limit of rounds). This granted power is a supernatural ability. Hrmm...This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. So that means (cleric, wizard and druid lists lv 1-6) Touch of fatigue, Grease, web, ghoul touch, hold person (or monster), ray of exhaustion, slow, solid fog, some of nightmare, waves of fatigue, some guards and wards, repulsion, some freezing sphere, entangle, plant growth, sleet storm, snare, wind wall, some spike stones, some control winds, What about things like obscuring mist; you cannot move full speed in them because you cannot see where you are going. Or Daze, which causes you to loose an action. Or alter self when you change into a creature with a slower speed. Or if someone casts dispel magic on your boots of speed. Or suggestions that cause you to move slower. Does it work against black tentacles, since that are actually a conjured creature that happens to grapple as an attack; what about summoned monsters that try to grapple? Or confusion, since you might just stand around. Or enervation if you have monk levels and loose your bonus speed (or barbarian for that matter). Or transmute rock to mud, which dosn't target the character, but does effect their movement (compare to web). Or gust of wind if you're a small creature. Or protection from alignments and magic circles that block an approach. Or forbidance and dimentional anchor which block extra dimentional movement. Looks like it's time to harrass the elders.... :D
McJarvis 10-29-06, 11:01 AM	Mort Noir would like to go on a three-week quest to found her guild[RP], when & if it is decided I'll be the guildmaster of the new one.(and when it is decided what the new one will be) If this is impossible due to the state of emergency...well darn :( Regardless, she'll need a questlord of some sort, since I think I'll want her on at least a 1-week quest to establish an RP reason for the guild's existance.[though a three-week quest is preferred]
Vathelokai 10-29-06, 01:13 PM	Question: Using ride skill for cover Can you do this if you are flat footed? The example I've come across is a sniper shooting at a mounted opponent; can the riders use ride to gain cover if he spots the sniper? How about if he does not see the sniper?
Vathelokai 10-29-06, 01:15 PM	Mort Noir would like to go on a three-week quest to found her guild[RP], when & if it is decided I'll be the guildmaster of the new one.(and when it is decided what the new one will be) If this is impossible due to the state of emergency...well darn :( Regardless, she'll need a questlord of some sort, since I think I'll want her on at least a 1-week quest to establish an RP reason for the guild's existance.[though a three-week quest is preferred] Have you considered a multiplayer quest with a bunch of the founding members ;) . I'd love to run it, but I have 2 quests starting next week and another the week after that. I do love credits though.... let me think about it.
McJarvis 10-29-06, 01:16 PM	Have you considered a multiplayer quest with a bunch of the founding members ;) . I'd love to run it, but I have 2 quests starting next week and another the week after that. I do love credits though.... let me think about it. This would be acceptable as well(more than acceptable, actually...preferrable)...I wouldn't mind waiting a week or two to discover who the founding members are before undertaking such a task. Ultimately the goal of this undertaking is for more RP, so all the founding members would be great :) ((assuming cross-ECL quests can be done? Mort is currently ECL 3, but only 1 fight away from ECL 4(win or lose))) [My first character that has gotten over level 3! I'm so proud]
MindWandererB 10-29-06, 02:21 PM	Also, Sleep spells don't take effect until your next turn, so enemies can usually leave the area of effect before it occurs.This is not quite true. Although your opponent could leave the range (if they figured out what you're casting), the caster decides where to center the spell when it's finished.
TARDIS 10-29-06, 04:15 PM	What guild is forming? I might be interested in joining that multiplayer quest.
Vathelokai 10-29-06, 04:47 PM	If Mort and Co. can wait 2+ weeks for it, then I can run a huge multiplayer quest. Mixed ECL has been done before, but it requires special permission (so don't expect it to happen, but I'll ask).
Vathelokai 10-29-06, 04:48 PM	What guild is forming? I might be interested in joining that multiplayer quest. The elders are still discussing it, but it looks like the autonomists/anarchists are ahead of the Loyalists.
Zevox 10-29-06, 09:46 PM	(assuming cross-ECL quests can be done? Mort is currently ECL 3, but only 1 fight away from ECL 4(win or lose) The only way to do cross-ECL quests is if you're all within 1 level of each other. Which means that higher level founders won't be able to go with Mort - which is kinda a pity, because depending on what the RP is and what the Guild is, I might be interested in sending Destra on such a quest. On the other hand, if the loyalists win and Mithos doesn't win the UnCon best all-around contest, he'd be a good option for a quest like that. So we'll just have to see. What guild is forming? I might be interested in joining that multiplayer quest. We're not sure yet. The poll is still active, but even isn't the ending decider, and it is relatively close. The Free Autonomy Council (CE-theme "everyone gets to do as they wish" Guild) is in the lead with 12 votes (discounting NiQil's since he doesn't intend to join), and in second are the Loyalists (Guild of royalists who want to see the Gladius monarchy restored) with 9, and a CN theme Guild trails them with 8 votes. But regardless of who wins the poll the Elders and Cat get the final say in who becomes the new Guild, so it may not necessarily be the FAC if they feel the second or third place Guild is the better choice. Zevox
McJarvis 10-30-06, 12:24 AM	If Mort and Co. can wait 2+ weeks for it, then I can run a huge multiplayer quest. Mixed ECL has been done before, but it requires special permission (so don't expect it to happen, but I'll ask). I think Mort could swing that. She'll be ECL 4 by that time(she needs to quest for a different animal companion, methinks- this will ensure her ECL 4 & the founding members will have more flexibility for ECL then) ps/@Zevox- If Poe wins the stealth section of the UnCon tournament, then I will be very flexible on whether he or Mort will be the "leader" of the guild. This will allow maximum flexibility on whether it'll be a ECL4 quest or ECL 7 quest. (conveniently right at Destra's level)
Zevox 10-30-06, 08:15 AM	she needs to quest for a different animal companion, methinks Not unless you want her to. You can just change it at the end of her current cycle - any quest would be for RP purposes only. Though in any event it'll be untrained save for bonus tricks, so keep that in mind. ps/@Zevox- If Poe wins the stealth section of the UnCon tournament, then I will be very flexible on whether he or Mort will be the "leader" of the guild. This will allow maximum flexibility on whether it'll be a ECL4 quest or ECL 7 quest. (conveniently right at Destra's level) Convenient that he did win then :D ! Heh, though since Mithos lost the all-around section he could go with Mort if it turns out to be a Guild he'll join, and since the end result is between the FAC or LOY, it looks like you've got one volunteer for this either way. I'll look forward to it :) . Zevox
Hirumajoe 10-30-06, 08:40 AM	Since the Uncon contest voting is now over, I have been considering whether it would be worth it to try running Kai Engel normally (once I get the needed 10 credits for Human Paragon). Problem is he's going to *very* weak at the low levels. A Human Paragon 1/Fighter 1/Wizard 1 doesn't strike me as all that effective (hence the reason I started Valen Sky - much stronger at low levels). And not spending cash on wonderous items until 6th isn't going to help. Also, having had a bunch a people presumably look him over, if people have suggestions on making him better, I'm all ears. :) Thanks, Hirumajoe
hogarth 10-30-06, 11:40 AM	Do crawling tattoos count towards a gladiator's expendable cap? The rules just say "tattoos" in most places (without specifying "psionic" or "crawling"), so I assume they would.
Vathelokai 10-30-06, 01:56 PM	Do crawling tattoos count towards a gladiator's expendable cap? The rules just say "tattoos" in most places (without specifying "psionic" or "crawling"), so I assume they would. They are expendables (i.e. magic items that have one use before disolving), so they do count. Even some items from the wonderous items list that only have one charge also count, like elixirs and beads of force.
hogarth 10-30-06, 02:02 PM	[Crawling tattoos] are expendables (i.e. magic items that have one use before disolving), so they do count. Even some items from the wonderous items list that only have one charge also count, like elixirs and beads of force. I don't think that's true. The rules specifically state that expendables are "Scrolls, Powerstones, Potions, and Tattoos". Other charged items like a Quaal's Feather Token or a wand are not covered by the expendables cap, AFAIK. All charged items are subject to a maximum caster level limit, though.
MindWandererB 10-30-06, 02:13 PM	I don't think that's true. The rules specifically state that expendables are "Scrolls, Powerstones, Potions, and Tattoos". Other charged items like a Quaal's Feather Token or a wand are not covered by the expendables cap, AFAIK. All charged items are subject to a maximum caster level limit, though. Correct. A crawling tattoo would technically not count--although we may fix that if it proves abuseable.
Vathelokai 10-30-06, 02:46 PM	Correct. A crawling tattoo would technically not count--although we may fix that if it proves abuseable. News to me. Turns out some of my characters have been getting too few expendables. NiQil: know if this is the rule as you know it? I think it's come up before and might need review.
hogarth 10-30-06, 02:47 PM	Correct. A crawling tattoo would technically not count--although we may fix that if it proves abuseable. To me, it's not clear if "Tattoos" means "psionic tattoos only" or "psionic tattoos and crawling tattoos". I was assuming the latter, but they have a different method of construction so that's why I asked for opinions.
TelinArtho 10-30-06, 02:56 PM	One-shot magic items like an elixir of hiding are restricted - just not by GP cost, but rather by ECL. Other than that - they are fair game.
NiQil 10-30-06, 08:52 PM	News to me. Turns out some of my characters have been getting too few expendables. NiQil: know if this is the rule as you know it? I think it's come up before and might need review. MWB is correct. At present, crawling tattoos are only restricted by the CL of the tattoo, because crawling tattoos are listed as wondrous items and not psionic tattoos. So far, no one has abused it, so there has been no reason to include it in the expendables cap, but could be changed should it prove necessary.
McJarvis 10-30-06, 09:15 PM	In the Guild-map of gladius, what does the teal-ish greeny color represent? Is it jsut another variation on grey, or does it mean forest, or what?
hogarth 10-30-06, 09:48 PM	True or false: Leadership cohorts come with money and/or equipment suitable for an NPC of their level and they can spend it on anything they want.
MindWandererB 10-30-06, 09:50 PM	In the Guild-map of gladius, what does the teal-ish greeny color represent? Is it jsut another variation on grey, or does it mean forest, or what? That's just the area outside the city. Consider it "white space." True or false: Leadership cohorts come with money and/or equipment suitable for an NPC of their level and they can spend it on anything they want.That's the RAW rule, and I see nothing in our rules to contradict that. They'd be subject to the same restrictions as a PC of their level, of course (CL and GP caps, etc.).
Zevox 10-30-06, 10:43 PM	True or false: Leadership cohorts come with money and/or equipment suitable for an NPC of their level and they can spend it on anything they want. False. I asked the same question way back when I started designing Asran's cohort (and Alboreth's, but he got retired before he could pick the feat), and the reply coming from the Elders at the time (LLMadCow and Pittbull, as I recall, were the ones who responded to me) was that for balance reasons the character has to pay for everything the cohort gets. Apparantly its a long-standing rule that hasn't been put into the existing rules thread. Zevox
McJarvis 10-30-06, 10:50 PM	That's just the area outside the city. Consider it "white space." TLT is surrounded by it. That means they are outside the city? Makes sense...ok.
Hirumajoe 10-31-06, 10:34 AM	False. I asked the same question way back when I started designing Asran's cohort (and Alboreth's, but he got retired before he could pick the feat), and the reply coming from the Elders at the time (LLMadCow and Pittbull, as I recall, were the ones who responded to me) was that for balance reasons the character has to pay for everything the cohort gets. Apparantly its a long-standing rule that hasn't been put into the existing rules thread. Zevox Hmm... So that would imply taking a monster-like leadership cohort is almost always going to be superior to taking a humanoid leadership cohort. Unless the humanoid is a spellcaster. And even then its debatable. For example, a Pegasus is an ECL 6 cohort and also a CR 3 monster. But if you put a cohort Pegasus up against a level 6 non-caster humanoid cohort with no equipment, or just basic non-magical equipment, I'd say the Pegasus is going to come out on top every time.
Zevox 10-31-06, 11:29 AM	Hmm... So that would imply taking a monster-like leadership cohort is almost always going to be superior to taking a humanoid leadership cohort. Unless the humanoid is a spellcaster. And even then its debatable. For example, a Pegasus is an ECL 6 cohort and also a CR 3 monster. But if you put a cohort Pegasus up against a level 6 non-caster humanoid cohort with no equipment, or just basic non-magical equipment, I'd say the Pegasus is going to come out on top every time. Quite true, I ran into that problem when I started designing Alboreth's cohort (would've been a Halfling Paladin/Wilder focused on ranged combat). Which is why, if you look over characters with leadership cohorts (or our one retired Thrallherd), almost all of them have clerics or druids for cohorts, and those that don't generally have other casters (e.g. Asran has a tiefling wizard, Ignatius has a wilder, etc). Zevox
hogarth 10-31-06, 11:53 AM	Hmm... So that would imply taking a monster-like leadership cohort is almost always going to be superior to taking a humanoid leadership cohort. Unless the humanoid is a spellcaster. And even then its debatable. For example, a Pegasus is an ECL 6 cohort and also a CR 3 monster. But if you put a cohort Pegasus up against a level 6 non-caster humanoid cohort with no equipment, or just basic non-magical equipment, I'd say the Pegasus is going to come out on top every time. Non-humanoids make fairly lousy cohorts because of the level adjustment; I think they make better purchased allies or diplomacy allies since they're then measured by CR, not ECL. I'd rather pay 3000 gp for a CR3 pegasus (useable at level 7) than a full miniquest's full of gold + a feat for an ECL6 cohort (useable at level 8). The only advantage is that you can add some class levels to a non-humanoid cohort but your ally is stuck at its original hit dice (unless you pay some credits and gold to advance it). I'm sure some people will say "non-humanoid cohorts kick a$$!", but if you check out how many CoCo characters actually have one you can see how many people have put their money where their mouth is. ;)
Hirumajoe 10-31-06, 12:06 PM	Non-humanoids make fairly lousy cohorts because of the level adjustment; I think they make better purchased allies or diplomacy allies since they're then measured by CR, not ECL. I'd rather pay 3000 gp for a CR3 pegasus (useable at level 7) than a full miniquest's full of gold + a feat for an ECL6 cohort (useable at level 8). The only advantage is that you can add some class levels to a non-humanoid cohort but your ally is stuck at its original hit dice (unless you pay some credits and gold to advance it). I'm sure some people will say "non-humanoid cohorts kick a$$!", but if you check out how many CoCo characters actually have one you can see how many people have put their money where their mouth is. ;) I would like to point out the leadership pegasus uses the standard 25 point buy (or equivalently the Elite array). This raises the equivalent Cr by 1 to 4, making the identical purchased Pegasus usuable at 8th level. Plus the cost goes up to 5,500 gp plus credits. Oh, and you can also change its feats around that might be worth up to 2,000 more gp. So in effect you actually save up to 7500 gp initially, and save even more later on as it increases in level with you. As a level 8 character, you're going to have about 28,000 gp. That pegasus you just bought is roughly 1/4 of your total cash. And eventually is going to become too low level to make much of a difference. The leadership cohort will become more and more valuable as you level up. Since it scales so well, it definitely worth the feat slot. And yes, once I actually get a Paladin to ECL 8 or 9, he's definitely investing in a cohort mount. :-)
hogarth 10-31-06, 12:28 PM	I would like to point out the leadership pegasus uses the standard 25 point buy (or equivalently the Elite array). This raises the equivalent Cr by 1 to 4, making the identical purchased Pegasus usuable at 8th level. Plus the cost goes up to 5,500 gp plus credits. Oh, and you can also change its feats around that might be worth up to 2,000 more gp. So in effect you actually save up to 7500 gp initially, and save even more later on as it increases in level with you. Note that a (mini)quest for a Leadership cohort doesn't provide any gold reward. So if an 8th-level character miniquests for an ally, he essentially loses 3400 gp; it's not exactly "free" to get a cohort. (Not true.) Also note that a purchased 7 HD pegasus with the elite array is CR 5, whereas a 7HD pegasus cohort is ECL 9. You're right though -- buying an ally could get expensive. That's why diplomacy allies are better. :D And yes, once I actually get a Paladin to ECL 8 or 9, he's definitely investing in a cohort mount. :-) I'll have to see how it turns out!
TelinArtho 10-31-06, 12:44 PM	Okay, now that I know that Jar-red will be added to the roster, I'm curious about thoughts on what to take for future levels and such. First off - easy reference: Jar-red Okay, my intention is to make him a monster to deal with on charges. As such, he needs to pick up Fleet of Foot next level. In addition, for at least the next two levels, he will definitely be taking Druid - since that is the easiest and most efficient route to gain Woodland Stride (nothing like charging with a 70+ speed through underbrush and doing a full attack at the end...). To round off to ECL 10, I plan to take a 3rd level of Druid just for the buffing options I can gain from it, since that opens 2nd level spells and such. I have no need for wildshape and progressing further in Druid is an option I might consider if I can't come up with a better route. Okay - restrictions: No psionics - this is not an option for me in any of the campaigns I run or play in - so I am choosing this same restriction for Jar-red. Same would apply for UA material. Options I'm considering: Fighter - adding in levels of fighter to gain bonus feats can go a long way to making him even more powerful in melee. This will also help his BAB a fair amount. Barbarian - again BAB benefits, and some of the side benefits of the barbarian start showing up pretty quickly. Ranger - still allows advancement of the animal companion from druid but has bigger benefits to my character than the druid levels do. I'm not fond of the ranger class though and some of the benefits have already been gained at this point - so it may not be worth it. Since spellcasting is pretty well restricted unless Jar-red is in human form - if I were to continue with druid, I'd have to pick up Silent Spell at a minimum for Hybrid form. I could feasibly pick that up at ECL11. Using a rod of Silent Spell would be a similar option. For equipment, he's likely to invest more and more into custom Ioun stones and other slotless equipment so I don't need to worry about not having them in various forms. With the druid levels, he'll be able to buff up abilities when needed. Not sure what else he'll need - so I'm open to options (and yes I realize that he'll be frozen at ECL10 - so this is all conjecture...).
Hirumajoe 10-31-06, 01:00 PM	Note that a (mini)quest for a Leadership cohort doesn't provide any gold reward. So if an 8th-level character miniquests for an ally, he essentially loses 3400 gp; it's not exactly "free" to get a cohort. Really? I agree that makes a big difference. Can you point me to where that is in the rules thread? I see where it says you need to go on a quest to get class allies, but I don't see where it says you don't get the gold reward. Does that mean quests to get any type of ally don't provide any gold reward?
Hirumajoe 10-31-06, 01:12 PM	@TelinArtho: One prestige class that might be interesting is Shadowdancer. You've already started pouring points into Hide and Move Silently. Grabbing Shadow Dancer at level 8 (ECL 10) would get you Hide in Plain sight. Continuing it for a level would also net you Evasion and Uncanny Dodge (or Improved Uncanny Dodge if you have 2 levels of Barbarian before it.) Although you'd need to take a level of Fighter for the the bonus feat Combat Reflexes or Mobility, and use your level 6 Feat for the other one. And probably taking a level of Ranger to pump Hide and Move Silently on a 1 for 1 basis wouldn't hurt. Not sure if its a direction you'd want to take it, but its an option. The idea being that your opponent will be easier to charge if they don't know where you're charging from.
McJarvis 10-31-06, 01:13 PM	Kaigan is back. :D
Kaigan 10-31-06, 01:14 PM	Hehe, I'm back :D If anyone is willing could they look over my characters, they're the last ones in the Characters of Gladius thread... I'd link, but *looks at watch* I have a midterm in hmm.... 2 hours.... procrastination at its best :D.
hogarth 10-31-06, 01:30 PM	Really? I agree that makes a big difference. Can you point me to where that is in the rules thread? I see where it says you need to go on a quest to get class allies, but I don't see where it says you don't get the gold reward. Does that mean quests to get any type of ally don't provide any gold reward? Hmmm...I looked in the rules and I couldn't find anything relevant. I'm sure someone mentioned lower rewards/no rewards for questing for allies. My understanding was that: Handle Animal ally quest --> gives full rewards Diplomacy ally quest --> gives rewards equivalent to a (quest EL - CR of allies gained) quest (e.g. an EL 3 miniquest to get a CR 1 ally would give an EL 2 reward) Leadership ally quest --> gives no gold reward Incorrect -- you get full rewards Maybe I'm way off base, but I remember things being discussed in the Council thread. Can anyone clarify the rules for ally quest rewards? Have the rules been recorded anywhere?
Zevox 10-31-06, 01:51 PM	@ hogarth - You have that rule all wrong. You only have your rewards reduced when questing for Diplomacy allies. Any other allies - handle animal, leadership, or in rare cases class - do not affect quest rewards at all. So yes, certain non-humanoids do make good cohorts. Pegasai are a good example - give them some class levels as they level up and they can serve as far better mounts than purchased ones. Zevox
McJarvis 10-31-06, 01:54 PM	Hehe, I'm back :D If anyone is willing could they look over my characters, they're the last ones in the Characters of Gladius thread... I'd link, but *looks at watch* I have a midterm in hmm.... 2 hours.... procrastination at its best :D. There's a state of emergency right now, btw.
Krytos 10-31-06, 01:55 PM	I don't know who you are, but welcome back! I've only been here a week
hogarth 10-31-06, 01:57 PM	So yes, certain non-humanoids do make good cohorts. Pegasai are a good example - give them some class levels as they level up and they can serve as far better mounts than purchased ones. As I said above, your claim would be more believable if the ratio of purchased pegasi/griffons vs. cohort pegasi/griffons weren't so high. (I think it's roughly at infinity, right now. ;)) Where is the Diplomacy ally reward stuff written? If it's not written anywhere, why not?
TelinArtho 10-31-06, 02:24 PM	@TelinArtho: One prestige class that might be interesting is Shadowdancer. You've already started pouring points into Hide and Move Silently. Grabbing Shadow Dancer at level 8 (ECL 10) would get you Hide in Plain sight. Continuing it for a level would also net you Evasion and Uncanny Dodge (or Improved Uncanny Dodge if you have 2 levels of Barbarian before it.) Although you'd need to take a level of Fighter for the the bonus feat Combat Reflexes or Mobility, and use your level 6 Feat for the other one. And probably taking a level of Ranger to pump Hide and Move Silently on a 1 for 1 basis wouldn't hurt. Not sure if its a direction you'd want to take it, but its an option. The idea being that your opponent will be easier to charge if they don't know where you're charging from. Doesn't look like I'd be able to manage it by level 10 if I get those druid levels I'm planning on. Since the druid levels are pretty essential (the forest map is one map that is a problem at the moment...), and I'm missing 5 ranks in hide, move silently and perform (dance) (a total of 30 skill points for druid...) plus the 2 feats I'd be missing - I just don't think it'll work. I hadn't really considered adding a prestige class to the mix, but I'll have to look it over. Thanks for the idea in any case.
Erithmu 10-31-06, 03:58 PM	@Telin: Straight druid could be interesting and pick up a Dino Animal companion ... but there are quite a few good long duration buffs that you can get out of druid that might be good for a buff then shift type of style. I was about to say straight monk as well for the speed boost (wonders how pounce and flurry would work together ...) but your kinda chaotic. Would be good for grappling as you can full attack rake in grapple.
TelinArtho 10-31-06, 04:12 PM	@Telin: Straight druid could be interesting and pick up a Dino Animal companion ... but there are quite a few good long duration buffs that you can get out of druid that might be good for a buff then shift type of style. I was about to say straight monk as well for the speed boost (wonders how pounce and flurry would work together ...) but your kinda chaotic. Would be good for grappling as you can full attack rake in grapple. Well, I'm an ol' stick in the mud - because I don't like monks either... so that was out from the start... I am definitely considering keeping up with druid for the rest of his career - or possibly going back and forth with barbarian. As to the grapple - since he doesn't actually get rake attacks (unlike the great cats), I don't believe he'd get to use his foreclaws in a grapple unless he had enough BAB given the latest FAQ on grappling (that I have read - has it changed recently...?) Its kind of moot anyway since I'm not a big fan of grappling... What about equipment? Ideas for improving AC/saves/other capabilities in some/all forms? At the moment I'm pretty much planning on Ioun Stones for the most part - but for the druid levels I'll probably pick up a rod of silent spell to start with - since that would help him immensely.
Hirumajoe 10-31-06, 04:32 PM	What about equipment? Ideas for improving AC/saves/other capabilities in some/all forms? At the moment I'm pretty much planning on Ioun Stones for the most part - but for the druid levels I'll probably pick up a rod of silent spell to start with - since that would help him immensely. Anything which actually casts a spell with a duraction as opposed to being a continuous effect will work well. Bag of tricks is an obvious (and over used) option. Flanking is always good. Hand of Glory will get you See Invisibility once per day. Figures of Wonderous Power. Cloak of Arachnidia would get you spider climb in human/hybrid form and allows you to cast Web once per day. Bracers of Archery for when you're forced to shoot in Hybrid form? Lastly, if you're willing to spend credits and its approved, grabbing custom items which can cast Mage Armor 3/day and Shield 3/day would boost your AC *alot*. Similarly Expeditious retreat 3/day on a custom item would boost your speed by almost 50%. Anyways, just some ideas. Edit: Another option would be an animated shield. Since you don't need hands to use it once its active.
TelinArtho 10-31-06, 04:45 PM	I decided against the hand of glory (or a custom See Invisibility item), since it wouldn't help me in animal form and I have very good spot/listen skills and I'll be picking up Druid (Faerie Fire For the Win!). Mage Armor is a lot cheaper in potion form and I can selectively use it - I suspect my 23/24 AC should be good enough for some encounters. With druid levels, I've got barkskin to help boost things too. Expeditious Retreat would be excellent, but I'm happy with just getting Longstrider on those occasions when I need a little more boost. But let's face it 140ft of possible movement, with a turn in the middle somewhere is pretty darn good. Sir Valkin is one of the few who can beat that (160ft currently, 180ft in another level), though he can't turn - and he is severely limited in the forest map... Bracers of Archery are not so great in my opinion. I'd much rather boost his damage potential by adding in an elemental charge or add in Seeking or something similar. I'm hoping I won't have to use the bow often, but it will be needed on those occasions I need a ranged attack and the ceiling of the map is too high to do a jump up... with Longstrider and animal form, my speed would be 80ft and a running jump would be at a net +43, add in the jump spell to make it +53... - that's enough to automatically gain a 15ft height... at CL5 - he'd be approaching 20ft... Althought I probably won't pick up a bag of tricks (already did that with one of my characters...), I am contemplating getting some deinonychus or megaraptor allies... that would be some good fun. I'm not too fond of slotted items with this character - so I'm not sure about the cloak - although it would be nice for those occasions where I need to climb extensively. But the only thing is - with my jump skill I can cover most distances with just a jump... I'm not too familiar with the various figurines, so I'll have to give them another look.
hogarth 10-31-06, 04:56 PM	But let's face it 140ft of possible movement, with a turn in the middle somewhere is pretty darn good. Sir Valkin is one of the few who can beat that (160ft currently, 180ft in another level), though he can't turn - and he is severely limited in the forest map... Zero and the other dragon wyrmlings laugh at such a feeble rate of speed! :D
TelinArtho 10-31-06, 05:03 PM	Yes, well when the wyrmlings get a full attack at the end of a charge with this kind of offensive power: Talons +11 melee, 2d6+7 dmg, x2 crit [+4 bab, +7 str] 2 Foreclaws +9 melee, 1d3+3 dmg, x2 crit [+4 bab, +7 str, -2 secondary] Bite +9 melee, 2d4+3 dmg, x2 crit [+4 bab, +7 str, -2 secondary] Then perhaps I'll be concerned about it... And let's not forget that most of them are Tiny size - so getting up close and personal can be a big detriment to them (grapple...).
Zevox 10-31-06, 05:55 PM	As I said above, your claim would be more believable if the ratio of purchased pegasi/griffons vs. cohort pegasi/griffons weren't so high. (I think it's roughly at infinity, right now. ;)) Thats because most characters with leadership cohorts aren't mounted to begin with, since charisma is rarely a high score in mounties (only Paladins really benefit from it, and you can see how many of those we have). Plus the bought/diplomacy/handle animal mounts are available earlier on since they use CR rather than ECL. And also at the levels that are available now mounts are pretty survivable and useful as is, or at worst with some advanced HD. Its pretty obvious though that a Pegasus leadership cohort with levels as a psychic warrior or cleric would be a lot more useful than your standard (or even advanced HD) Pegasus. Where is the Diplomacy ally reward stuff written? If it's not written anywhere, why not? Here: The Rules of Gladius, Allies II => List of Allies - Diplomacy => Basic Requirements. Basic Requirements: You must have a high enough maxCD (maximum Coefficient of Diplomacy) to support all Diplomacy allies You must be able to communicate with your allies. Telepathy counts as any language. Spells or abilities that only grant temporary linguistic skills do not count. You must complete a Quest or Miniquest with the questgoal being the ally. The EL of the quest must be equal to your ECL. You may quest for up to your maxCA (maximum Coefficient of Allies). You gain XP normally your gold rewards are decreased as if your ECL would be lowered by a number equal to the CR of the ally. Example: An ECL 6 PC quests for a CR 2 ally, then he gains XP for ECL 6 normally, but Gold as if he would be only ECL 4. No such clause exists anywhere in the rules for other types of allies, ergo it is only diplomacy allies that have that penalty. This was one of the nerfs put on diplomacy allies in particular because they are more powerful than any other type of ally. Zevox
hogarth 10-31-06, 06:05 PM	Yes, well when the wyrmlings get a full attack at the end of a charge with this kind of offensive power: Talons +11 melee, 2d6+7 dmg, x2 crit [+4 bab, +7 str] 2 Foreclaws +9 melee, 1d3+3 dmg, x2 crit [+4 bab, +7 str, -2 secondary] Bite +9 melee, 2d4+3 dmg, x2 crit [+4 bab, +7 str, -2 secondary] You weren't bragging about your amazing damage before, you were bragging about your unparalleled speed. Don't change the subject. :P
Gonbow 10-31-06, 06:24 PM	Given the S.O.E, I've taken upon myself to briefly become a pitlord again... but there is a small problem. Maps. Namely, the automatic, dynamic, spectacular mapping system nearly everyone is using these days that I have no clue how to utilize. If any of our current illustrous pitlords would be so kind, general pointers on it's use would be appreciated. (I'm assuming the link to it is buried somewhere in the Rules of Gladius, but I haven't checked yet)
SauroGrenom 10-31-06, 09:30 PM	Find a link to the mapper in the FoTW Thread. The 1st post has a bunch of links to stuff that's usefull. This includes the mapper and the coco dice roller. To use it, just load the webpage. Click at the top of the page on the map you are using (wait to load). Then you get a bunch of boxes and buttons on the left. Put a character's name in the box. Click the p1 button and a little thing follows your mouse pointer. Place the "pin" on the map. You can place larger creatures by changing a menu near the name box. In such cases the pin is located at the top left of the creature's box. You can also place area effects. Choose the radius and place the pin in the center of the area. To represent movement, each character has up to 4 pins. Place them sequentially to represent movement with several steps. Around a corner for example. There is an LOS function but I've never figured out how to make it work. Also there is a distance calculator. It calculates the distance between the last "pin" and the one your cursor is currently holding. That is usefull for figuring how far to move a character w/o counting all the little tiny squares. It comes in handy for long range attacks as well on the plains map. Use it to calculate distance penalties. Even if you're not placing a pin, you can hover the cursor over a square and get the coordinates. Usefull for typing them in the end of round summary, or replacing a pin accidentially removed. When the round is finished, there's a button at the bottom that creates the img code for the map. Paste it into the battle, and make sure it's in an sblock. You can click the next round button to rename all the last pins as pin1 and start the turn over.
MindWandererB 10-31-06, 09:36 PM	There is an LOS function but I've never figured out how to make it work.Easy enough. Just enter in the pin numbers for the two spots you want connected. For instance, if you want to see whether the combatants have LOS at the beginning of the fight, enter a1 and b1 into the boxes. The middle box is for the corner of the "looker's" square (mouse over the box for specifics). The LOS will then be drawn when you create the image and code. Sometimes it can be useful to edit the code manually. For instance, the program won't let you put two pins on the same location, even if one is a spell area. You can change the grid locations in the code, and they'll appear in the loaded map in the right locations. You can also edit the code to draw LOS lines that don't start from an occupied square (if, for instance, you want to draw LOS from the southeast corner of a Large creature's area), or to create more than four pins per combatant. Example:http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=arena;a=Brad,M,30,56,25 ,57,23,52,28,49,38,49,38,45;b=Carl,L,33, 51;c=Flea,T,31,45,33,51;los=34,50,38,45, 2
McJarvis 10-31-06, 10:02 PM	remember that the LOS effect thing is case-sensitive. That was my major problem using it when I first started on the mapmaker.
Kaigan 10-31-06, 10:22 PM	Since it is S.O.E. I will be jumping right in and picking up two fights a week... I've been away too long. Haha... it's good to see some familiar faces though.
malakaiunseen 10-31-06, 10:55 PM	Hehe, Kaigan the Canadian. :P How's Canada going for you buddy? Long time no see.
Kaigan 11-01-06, 01:28 AM	Hehe, Kaigan the Canadian. :P How's Canada going for you buddy? Long time no see. Hey long time no see... it's been good, you?
malakaiunseen 11-01-06, 07:16 AM	Good, good. I've only just got back from China, again. :P BTW, can anyone tell me where the date is mentioned on the weekly pairings post? I can't seem to figure out which week the pairing is for... last week or this week. :( I cant find anywhere it says which week it is.
Zevox 11-01-06, 07:36 AM	BTW, can anyone tell me where the date is mentioned on the weekly pairings post? I can't seem to figure out which week the pairing is for... last week or this week. :( I cant find anywhere it says which week it is. Its not on the post in the character thread, but its in the title line of the one in the battles thread. And in the fights of the week thread title. This week (the pairings starting today) is November 1st, last week was October 25th. Zevox
Hirumajoe 11-01-06, 12:50 PM	Dumb question in regard to Faerie Fire, which quoted from the SRD says: A pale glow surrounds and outlines the subjects. Outlined subjects shed light as candles. Outlined creatures do not benefit from the concealment normally provided by darkness (though a 2nd-level or higher magical darkness effect functions normally), blur, displacement, invisibility, or similar effects. The light is too dim to have any special effect on undead or dark-dwelling creatures vulnerable to light. The faerie fire can be blue, green, or violet, according to your choice at the time of casting. The faerie fire does not cause any harm to the objects or creatures thus outlined. Does this affect the Shadow Dancer's ability to hide in plain sight, for exampe? From SRD: A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow. Since the shadowdancer isn't actually using the shadow for concealment, and specifically the shadow doesn't need to provide concealment, can they hide just fine while under Faerie Fire? Also, does a non-shadow dancer have problems hiding when they have partial cover or concealment from things other than natural darkness or spell level 1 darkness effects while under the effects of Faerie fire?
McJarvis 11-01-06, 12:52 PM	Dumb question in regard to Faerie Fire, which quoted from the SRD says: A pale glow surrounds and outlines the subjects. Outlined subjects shed light as candles. Outlined creatures do not benefit from the concealment normally provided by darkness (though a 2nd-level or higher magical darkness effect functions normally), blur, displacement, invisibility, or similar effects. The light is too dim to have any special effect on undead or dark-dwelling creatures vulnerable to light. The faerie fire can be blue, green, or violet, according to your choice at the time of casting. The faerie fire does not cause any harm to the objects or creatures thus outlined. Does this affect the Shadow Dancer's ability to hide in plain sight, for exampe? From SRD: A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow. Since the shadowdancer isn't actually using the shadow for concealment, and specifically the shadow doesn't need to provide concealment, can they hide just fine while under Faerie Fire? Also, does a non-shadow dancer have problems hiding when they have partial cover or concealment from things other than natural darkness or spell level 1 darkness effects while under the effects of Faerie fire? Shadow dancers still need concealment to hide. All hide in plain sight does is let them hide while being observed. A 17th level ranger in natural terrain, however, could easily hide in a faerie fire while being observed.
TelinArtho 11-01-06, 12:55 PM	I would say that since they "shed light as candles" - that they would have no shadows within 10ft to hide in. This is under the assumption that objects that shed light do not have shadows. However, looking over the lighting for a candle, I'm a little dismayed since it provides "shadowy illumination" out to 5ft... Maybe that explanation wouldn't work after all... I would generally say though that they wouldn't be able to hide.
hogarth 11-01-06, 12:55 PM	Shadow dancers still need concealment to hide. All hide in plain sight does is let them hide while being observed. Huh? It says "a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind". How does that require concealment? Remember -- hiding requires concealment or cover. As far as I can tell, this removes the cover requirement, changing it to "concealment or close enough to a shadow". From what I see, they should be able to hide even if hit with faerie fire. Of course, there probably aren't enough shadows in certain places (the centre of the Plains map, for instance).
McJarvis 11-01-06, 12:58 PM	Huh? It says "a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind". How does that require concealment? Normally you need to break LOS to hide. Thus they don't need "something to hide behind". They do need something that conceals though, from my understanding of the rules. My understanding comes from implications of the Ranger class abilities: Camouflage (Ex): A ranger of 13th level or higher can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment. Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed. In-game example: Mort Noir does not have hide-in-plain sight. So with that deeper darkness spell up, she needs to run for cover to hide(or "hide behind something") (if she is being observed) If she got hide-in-plain-sight, she would be able to hide in the darkness normally, without something to hide behind.(even while observed) edit- All that aside, nothing in the rules of Hide-In-Plain-Sight says you can hide without concealment. Just that you can while being observed(normally impossible) (being observed later being defined as "hiding with nothing to hide behind") Looking over the rules now, though, I could see how you could interprit it both ways. hum...
Hirumajoe 11-01-06, 01:03 PM	Normally you need to break LOS to hide. Thus they don't need "something to hide behind". They do need something that conceals though, from my understanding of the rules. My understanding comes from implications of the Ranger class abilities: Originally Posted by SRD Ranger Camouflage (Ex): A ranger of 13th level or higher can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment. Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed. I always thought the Shadow Dancer Hide in plain sight was supposed to represent both the Camouflage and the Hide in Plain Sight ability of the ranger (although with different triggering situations). Since the Hide in Plain sight of the shadow dancer includes the "without anything to hide behind" clause, while the Ranger's version does not.
McJarvis 11-01-06, 01:05 PM	I always thought the Shadow Dancer Hide in plain sight was supposed to represent both the Camouflage and the Hide in Plain Sight ability of the ranger (although with different triggering situations). Since the Hide in Plain sight of the shadow dancer includes the "without anything to hide behind" clause, while the Ranger's version does not. I might be wrong on this- but the shadow dancer's ability is very poorly worded. I would question why they didn't just reference not needing partial-concealment or partial-cover like camouflage does.
Hirumajoe 11-01-06, 01:17 PM	Never mind, looked up the Main FAQ 3.5 edition. It appears McJarvis is correct. The Hide in Plain sight feature only applies to observation while the camoflague applies only to concealment/cover. Although, I suppose an eversmoking bottle would provide non-darkness related concealment, along with alot of shadow...
McJarvis 11-01-06, 01:20 PM	Although, I suppose an eversmoking bottle would provide non-darkness related concealment, along with alot of shadow... So would tall grass or thick jungle. Never mind, looked up the Main FAQ 3.5 edition. It appears McJarvis is correct. The Hide in Plain sight feature only applies to observation while the camoflague applies only to concealment/cover. I'd love to claim this as a "victory", but the FAQ specifically references hide in plain sight from the PhB, not the DMG. The FAQ has no mention of the shadow dancer's or assassin's HIPS. This would likely have to be an elder ruling.(And for the sake of shadow dancers I hope I'm wrong- the ability is much less useful in the CoCo sense if it requires concealment)
Hirumajoe 11-01-06, 01:27 PM	@McJarvis: Hrmm... You're right. Oh, there's a totally unrelated issue that I just came across though while scanning the FAQs. And it affected my Uncon entry. :weep: If you look at the 3rd edition faq, under the entry prestige classes it says the following: Question: I can't find any information about how many spells prestige classs spellcasters know. I am going on the presumption that those that gain bonus spells per day of their existing class (such as loremaster and spellsword) do not automatically add additional spells to their spellbooks as they gain levels. Answer: They do add spells to their lists. For example, a wizard/loremaster gains 2 spells for her spellbook when using a loremaster level to increase spellcasting. A sorcerer/loremaster would learn more spells as well. Adding spells to your spellbook or personal repertoire is part of spellcasting.
MindWandererB 11-01-06, 01:35 PM	@Hiruma: Good find. We always forget to check the 3.0 FAQ. That might be a good thing to put in the Court Decisions, since the answer is in an obscure place. Re: HiPS: There are unfortunately two versions of this ability. One only allows you to hide while being observed. The other also allows you to hide when you lack cover or concealment, but are within 5 feet of shadow. Faerie Fire generally does not negate concealment--and it certainly doesn't negate concealment more than 5 feet away from the target. If there's a shadow more than 5 feet, but less than 15 feet, away from the character, he should be able to hide anyway. An actually, "shadowy illumination" is enough to hide in, so faerie fire shouldn't affect it at all.
Hirumajoe 11-01-06, 01:42 PM	@Hiruma: Good find. We always forget to check the 3.0 FAQ. That might be a good thing to put in the Court Decisions, since the answer is in an obscure place. This is what happens when I'm home sick with a *really* bad cough, fever and headache. I browse the internet, concoct wild ideas, and basically do nothing useful.:D
McJarvis 11-01-06, 01:45 PM	Re: HiPS: There are unfortunately two versions of this ability. Don't forget the often overlooked third version ;) At 15th level, the illusionist can hide in plain sight (as the ranger ability, except that the illusionist need not be in natural terrain). I used to think this was the best version, but I guess if Shadow Dacner/Assassin HIPS don't need concealment... :-D
hogarth 11-01-06, 02:02 PM	If a psion uses the feat Metamorphic Transfer to use an ability that operates continuously (e.g. a barbed devil's Barbed Defense or a shadow mastiff's Shadow Blend), does that ability last for one round or for as long as the psion stays in that shape? (Or "other"?)
Zevox 11-01-06, 09:39 PM	And with the LOY thread going up, I decided it was time to post my member for that - the ECL 3 version of Mithos Durrol. Any comments/advice/etc would be appreciated. I've kinda been agonizing over I want shocking grasp or true strike more as a spell at this level, and whether Weapon Focus (Greatsword) is worth it as a feat to take myself. Zevox
Guildmaster_LOY 11-02-06, 12:30 AM	And with the LOY thread going up, I decided it was time to post my member for that - the ECL 3 version of Mithos Durrol. Any comments/advice/etc would be appreciated. I've kinda been agonizing over I want shocking grasp or true strike more as a spell at this level, and whether Weapon Focus (Greatsword) is worth it as a feat to take myself. Zevox LOY will likely start active recruitment on Friday. I'll be working all day tomorrow getting the thread ready :)
Vathelokai 11-02-06, 05:56 AM	If a psion uses the feat Metamorphic Transfer to use an ability that operates continuously (e.g. a barbed devil's Barbed Defense or a shadow mastiff's Shadow Blend), does that ability last for one round or for as long as the psion stays in that shape? (Or "other"?) It stays active for as long as it would stay active on the creature they polymorph into. So your examples just stay active for as long as you are polymorphed. The 3/day thing is mostly for the supernatural attacks; say you turn into a medusa, you can only flesh to stone 3 times.
McJarvis 11-02-06, 10:15 AM	It stays active for as long as it would stay active on the creature they polymorph into. So your examples just stay active for as long as you are polymorphed. The 3/day thing is mostly for the supernatural attacks; say you turn into a medusa, you can only flesh to stone 3 times. If this really is the ruling: Hogarth should look into the choker :)
hogarth 11-02-06, 10:35 AM	If this really is the ruling: Hogarth should look into the choker :) Way ahead of you buddy -- Kilpquabjeg already has the Alter Self scroll primed and ready to go. :D That was my goal for her from the beginning.
Guildmaster_LOY 11-02-06, 07:14 PM	Is there currently a way to destroy rooms in guild HQ or other buildings that can hold rooms? They don't have HP so the "destroy" feature doesn't seem to work out.
MindWandererB 11-02-06, 07:18 PM	Is there currently a way to destroy rooms in guild HQ or other buildings that can hold rooms? They don't have HP so the "destroy" feature doesn't seem to work out. Nope. Not as written.
Guildmaster (EHTC) 11-02-06, 07:21 PM	Is there currently a way to destroy rooms in guild HQ or other buildings that can hold rooms? They don't have HP so the "destroy" feature doesn't seem to work out. Not to my knowledge, and almost certainly not for targetting other Guilds. If you're thinking of changing some of the things in your own Guild you should be able to do it just by requesting the change, since you're a new Guild and we have all these new rules going into place. I don't think you'd otherwise be able to do it though.
McJarvis 11-02-06, 07:50 PM	Nope. Not as written. I think this is a feature worth considering. It isn't realistic to think that once you put equipment in one room you can't possibly take it out. Howabout this: Normally it just requires one GAP(regardless of price), no resources(no CON), and just gp to create one. You can also spend 1 GAP to move a room into a new guildhall if you decide to change guildhalls. Why not have a feature where you can spend 1 GAP and remove as many rooms as you want from a building? No gp refunded- but it gives some easy renovation power so I'm not so terribly afraid of making mistakes :-) If you're thinking of changing some of the things in your own Guild you should be able to do it just by requesting the change, since you're a new Guild and we have all these new rules going into place. I don't think you'd otherwise be able to do it though. I hadn't thought about that for some reason. If I catch Cat online tonight I'll talk to him about it. My primary reason for considering this is that I eventually want a throne room and my current guildhall is very cluttered with those construction cranes.
MindWandererB 11-02-06, 07:54 PM	Why not have a feature where you can spend 1 GAP and remove as many rooms as you want from a building? No gp refunded- but it gives some easy renovation power so I'm not so terribly afraid of making mistakes :-)Maybe... but compare that to just overbuilding. If you take out a room and put in a new one, you've spent 2000 gp and 3 GAPs for 1 room. If you just overbuild, you've spent 3000 gp and 2 GAPs for 2 rooms. The latter is almost always best--the only exception is if you use the space to build a main hall or grand hall.
McJarvis 11-02-06, 07:58 PM	Maybe... but compare that to just overbuilding. If you take out a room and put in a new one, you've spent 2000 gp and 3 GAPs for 1 room. If you just overbuild, you've spent 3000 gp and 2 GAPs for 2 rooms. The latter is almost always best--the only exception is if you use the space to build a main hall or grand hall. Ah, that's right...I forgot about overbuilding. The question isn't as pertitent to my own desires anymore- but it's still a worthy subject to tackle. Would it be overpowered to let people demolish rooms as a free action?
Guildmaster_LOY 11-02-06, 10:14 PM	The tides of power are shifting in Gladius. What was once held as absolute fact- the complete and utter non-malleability of the Council- is being questioned. In fact, there are rumors in the air that a certain lass is a great Queen, come to lead our fair city out of the den of Corruption that it has become. She will free our bonds from the religious zealots that currently tell you what to do. And moreso- she will do so with words, rather than the chauvinist dealings of swordsmen. She will change the hearts of the city by appealing to them, rather than peeling them in a more phsyical sense. Lady Mortiniellia is the future! Join THE LOYALISTS! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10533035)
McJarvis 11-02-06, 10:18 PM	Mortiniellia is the future! Join THE LOYALISTS! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10533035) Whoa! That sounds really rockin. I can't wait to get started :D
Gonbow 11-02-06, 11:44 PM	The tides of power are shifting in Gladius. What was once held as absolute fact- the complete and utter non-malleability of the Council- is being questioned. In fact, there are rumors in the air that a certain lass is a great Queen, come to lead our fair city out of the den of Corruption that it has become. She will free our bonds from the religious zealots that currently tell you what to do. And moreso- she will do so with words, rather than the chauvinist dealings of swordsmen. She will change the hearts of the city by appealing to them, rather than peeling them in a more phsyical sense. Lady Mortiniellia is the future! Join THE LOYALISTS! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10533035) "Words... cooperation... guidance." The sneer cannot be seen on the serene elf's face, but heard clearly in her voice. "These words should suffice to cloud the eyes of the human peasants, but for the fair folk or even the stout dwarves of this city..." Tatyana shakes her head, "No. This is not enough. A noble must be able to make hard decisions and protect those that would obey; if your master cannot raise a shield to put between you and the blades of her enemies, what good is she?" A low chuckle follows these words, before another set with a more thoughtful than despairing tone, "But perhaps she is not as foolish as she sounds. Time will tell if this one can make hard decisions..."
McJarvis 11-03-06, 12:01 AM	"Words... cooperation... guidance." The sneer cannot be seen on the serene elf's face, but heard clearly in her voice. "These words should suffice to cloud the eyes of the human peasants, but for the fair folk or even the stout dwarves of this city..." Tatyana shakes her head, "No. This is not enough. A noble must be able to make hard decisions and protect those that would obey; if your master cannot raise a shield to put between you and the blades of her enemies, what good is she?" A low chuckle follows these words, before another set with a more thoughtful than despairing tone, "But perhaps she is not as foolish as she sounds. Time will tell if this one can make hard decisions..." Totally not rp: It is Mortiniellia's experience that in the face of physical threats they just mysteriously dissapear in a inky-black blob of arrows. :angel:
malakaiunseen 11-03-06, 01:46 AM	Is there a system in the CoCo that allows one to say, assassinate upstart characters to stop a potentially dangerous situation from unfolding?:angelhide Can political developments be opposed?
Zelck 11-03-06, 01:55 AM	Is there a system in the CoCo that allows one to say, assassinate upstart characters to stop a potentially dangerous situation from unfolding? "Oh, please say yes!" Somewhere, an excited giggle is heard... it sounds like it's coming from the wall?
Caterane 11-03-06, 07:35 AM	I proudly present you our latest Elder: TelinArtho. I am sure the board will benefit greatly from this. @MWB: Added a Raze Room GAP.
Abyssal Stalker 11-03-06, 08:01 AM	...,DTFarstar,... Some old CoCo people lurking around... No one goes unspotted :)
Macbrea 11-03-06, 09:25 AM	I proudly present you our latest Elder: TelinArtho. I am sure the board will benefit greatly from this. Congratz
DTFarstar 11-03-06, 09:55 AM	*blink* Yeah, I ended up having to quit the job that(with some other things) caused me to quit this place. I hadn't realized how much I missed this place till I wasn't so budy(for the last 2 and a half months working, I was promoted to management, worked 45-55 hours a week with no overtime, AND not given a raise while still maintaining a full college workload. If you remember anything about me, you might remember I have chronic migraines so maintaining that schedule was literally killing me. So, I'm scrambling to recover my grades and not bankrupt myself, but I've gotten most things back on track and as a result decided I would swing by and check the old place out. Though I must say besides the familiar names I almost don't recognize anything. I do think I'm probably going to familiarize myself with all the new rules and material and maps and what-not ans see if I can ease back into things and recover the horrible credit rating and late proportion I accumulated at the end of my last run here. Though, Abyssal, I must say it was kind of creepy to be prowling around and get tracked and posted about. I was just wondering if anyone remembered me, I guess so, then again that may or may not be a good thing. We'll see I guess. Looks like a SoE has been declared again. Once I get familiar with things I may be able to help at least a little with that. I doubt I'll stick a character in the works for a least a week or two. I think I'll probably try to break even on credits before I activate a character. That is if no one has an objection to me coming back, of course. I wasn't exactly the best Pitlord at the end, but I don't forsee THAT happening again. Anyway, I wasn't going to say anything for awhile, but since I was spotted I thought I would toss this out there. Chris
Macbrea 11-03-06, 10:00 AM	Welcome back DTFarstar. The changes aren't that bad overall. With going to the three week cycle like we have it results in kind of a weird. I build up money then go on shopping spree kind of mentality.
hogarth 11-03-06, 10:01 AM	I do think I'm probably going to familiarize myself with all the new rules and material and maps and what-not ans see if I can ease back into things and recover the horrible credit rating and late proportion I accumulated at the end of my last run here. Of course, the rules change every week around here so you might feel like Sisyphus trying to read them all. :hides:
Pittbull 11-03-06, 10:30 AM	@Telin: Yeah, congrats! @Chris: Nice to have you back!!!
Zelck 11-03-06, 11:25 AM	I proudly present you our latest Elder: TelinArtho. I am sure the board will benefit greatly from this. :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :clap: :clap: :clap: Grats TelinArtho! :)
Vathelokai 11-03-06, 01:46 PM	Though, Abyssal, I must say it was kind of creepy to be prowling around and get tracked and posted about. I was just wondering if anyone remembered me, I guess so, then again that may or may not be a good thing. Chris Good to see ya. One of my newest hobbies is to watch who's logged in and post on the lurkers who've been too busy to play. I caught Gonbow last month ;) As for rules changes, reread the quickstart guide; it's been rewritten. Then read the skill section of the rules thread, and the 3 fight cycle stuff and you should be good to go.
Zevox 11-03-06, 02:12 PM	@ DTF - Welcome back :D ! Good to see an old face (er, name) returning. The changes aren't that tough to adjust to - new maps that get rolled randomly, the 3 fight cycle, and the expendable cap are the only really big ones. Just take a look through those rules and you should mostly be good to go. Zevox
DTFarstar 11-03-06, 02:29 PM	Yeah, I don't anticipate having too many problems adjusting. I figure I'll take a fight next week and just see where to go from there. I guess I should e-mail Pitlords about that. Provided Cat will take me back, of course. Chris EDIT: Hmmm, is there any specific reason the Battles of Gladius link should take me to a blank white page?
Abyssal Stalker 11-03-06, 04:54 PM	DTF: Welcome back! Yep, I'm a creepy guy. I like to haunt people when they are asleep... ;) It's nice to see old members coming back, you, Kaigan, Gonbow... OMG, I've been here for a long time. I'm talking about old members coming back... :)
TelinArtho 11-03-06, 04:58 PM	I do the same thing from time to time. Heck I saw the creator of the CoCo once - moha... yeah - I'm not going to even try to get that one correct... and posted in the tavern. He never spoke up though...
Abyssal Stalker 11-03-06, 05:07 PM	Oh yeah, congratulations to Telin!
DTFarstar 11-03-06, 06:01 PM	Yeah, congrats Telin, though I'm surprised it has taken this long. I've always kind of thought of you as a major fixture here. Chris
TelinArtho 11-03-06, 06:19 PM	Thanks again guys. As I've said elsewhere - this wasn't really the first invitation - but it was the first one where I was really able to accept it. I hope to do you guys proud. (Tear in an eye...)
SauroGrenom 11-03-06, 06:59 PM	Yeah, I don't anticipate having too many problems adjusting. I figure I'll take a fight next week and just see where to go from there. I guess I should e-mail Pitlords about that. Provided Cat will take me back, of course. Chris EDIT: Hmmm, is there any specific reason the Battles of Gladius link should take me to a blank white page? Welcome back. I had that problem with the battles thread. I asked the boards techsupport people, and they said that the thread is too massive for my browser with all the maps and the number of posts set on max. So just set the number of posts displayed down a few steps. Then it will load.
Vathelokai 11-03-06, 10:33 PM	I do the same thing from time to time. Heck I saw the creator of the CoCo once - moha... yeah - I'm not going to even try to get that one correct... and posted in the tavern. He never spoke up though... Same here. Ashenai stoped in once to say he was proud of how far the thread went from it's optimization board days. Mo's never said hello in the 20 or so months I've been around.
Vathelokai 11-03-06, 10:40 PM	Just a general announcement; I havn't forgot my quests and such. I've been crazy busy and wanted to get my two fights out of the way first. I've set aside tomorrow for RP. Yippie.
Zevox 11-03-06, 11:04 PM	Mo's never said hello in the 20 or so months I've been around. Actually, I do recall him popping in for a single tavern post some months ago. It'd probably be a pain to dig up, but I'm sure its there. Zevox
MindWandererB 11-04-06, 01:12 AM	I remember that. Not much to it--he just said hi, look what you've done with the place.
DTFarstar 11-04-06, 06:59 AM	Hah, I just went in to Firefox and increased my cache size ten-fold. Opens Battles fine now. Chris
malakaiunseen 11-04-06, 11:59 AM	Is there a system in the CoCo that allows one to say, assassinate upstart characters to stop a potentially dangerous situation from unfolding?:angelhide Can political developments be opposed? I was being serious. Can anyone answer this? Is everyone actually untouchable in Gladius and even beyond its walls?
Vathelokai 11-04-06, 12:08 PM	I was being serious. Can anyone answer this? Is everyone actually untouchable in Gladius and even beyond its walls? Basicly yes. After a fight the characters are restored to perfection. You can have a guild kidnap people and imprison them, but that only keeps them out of quests, not the arena in general. You can kill allies on quests, but the PCs are always restored.
Vathelokai 11-04-06, 01:43 PM	Actually, I do recall him popping in for a single tavern post some months ago. It'd probably be a pain to dig up, but I'm sure its there. Zevox Maybe I'm confusing Ash with Mo. Feh.
Zevox 11-04-06, 05:18 PM	This should probably be in the Council, but I didn't want to derail its current discussion, so... About Guild missions - they are all full 3 week quests, right? The reason I ask is that Sauro seems to be presuming Istima's current mission for PSI (to contact a new para-military group) is going to be a miniquest, and I noticed he only spent 1 CAP launching it when missions are supposed to take 2 per character. If hes wrong, that needs to be changed, and I need to find Istima a questlord. Zevox
Vathelokai 11-04-06, 07:03 PM	This should probably be in the Council, but I didn't want to derail its current discussion, so... About Guild missions - they are all full 3 week quests, right? The reason I ask is that Sauro seems to be presuming Istima's current mission for PSI (to contact a new para-military group) is going to be a miniquest, and I noticed he only spent 1 CAP launching it when missions are supposed to take 2 per character. If hes wrong, that needs to be changed, and I need to find Istima a questlord. Zevox You are correct. 2 caps and three weeks.
Zevox 11-04-06, 07:15 PM	You are correct. 2 caps and three weeks. I'd figured as much. So then, in that case: Is anyone interested in running the mission for Istima Telarc to contact the para-military group of psionic monks, "The Order of the Open Handed Way", starting next week? Zevox
MindWandererB 11-05-06, 03:10 PM	Oops. Sorry, should have caught that. The fact that contacting a group is a mission, but weakening it is an operation, throws me off.
SauroGrenom 11-05-06, 08:57 PM	I was thrown by the fact that sending a messenger is enough to contact most everyone except apparently military groups. A messenger is a free action unless it is also escorted then it's a simple 1 CAP and 1 week action. I guess I need to find a QL. I can do it if that's not too much of a problem. Vath has done several of these kinds of missions for TAO, and I'm required to roll the encounters anyway. Is that alright MWB?
MindWandererB 11-05-06, 10:41 PM	All right by me--it's the vs. missions where that's a problem. Are you okay using both of your CAPs on this?
SauroGrenom 11-05-06, 10:44 PM	Yea, PSI doesn't have any members who can participate well in the contest anyway.
TheMagister 11-06-06, 12:25 AM	Hi King! Howzit goin'? (King Uther in 'da howse)
Vathelokai 11-06-06, 04:04 AM	Question about lycanthropes and the full moon. We have a full moon right now. Does that effect pairings since it happened mid week? Does it go to last weeks pairings or next weeks? I ask since the uncon fights have some lycanthropes in them.
Abyssal Stalker 11-06-06, 04:38 AM	Question about lycanthropes and the full moon. We have a full moon right now. Does that effect pairings since it happened mid week? Does it go to last weeks pairings or next weeks? I ask since the uncon fights have some lycanthropes in them. I think we should have our own CoCo full moon system. Maybe full moon avery fourth week, affecting those pairings? On the other hand it creates a problem with the 3FC; the fights are supposed to happen in 24 hours allthough it takes 3 weeks in RL. It wouldn't be realistic if the first fight of the lycanthrope benefits from full moon but not the other two. Nor can we say that if it's full moon when the lycanthrope starts his cycle, then it is in effect during the whole cycle. (Because that's what our system says, 3 fights in one day) The lycanthrope might even be paired against another lycanthrope who wouldn't benefit from full moon. This leads me to a conclusion where we should have a CoCo full moon every fourth pairings. It's not realistic if you consider the 3FC, but it's more balanced than the other option. Any better ideas? I think that RL full moon is too hard to track because it isn't always on wednesday.
hogarth 11-06-06, 07:04 AM	This leads me to a conclusion where we should have a CoCo full moon every fourth pairings. It's not realistic if you consider the 3FC, but it's more balanced than the other option. I'd say a straight 25% chance of a full moon would be easier if people thought it was really important. I don't think it matters much, though; it can go in the "other ideas" pile along with rolling randomly for lighting levels.
Abyssal Stalker 11-06-06, 07:35 AM	I'd say a straight 25% chance of a full moon would be easier if people thought it was really important. I don't think it matters much, though; it can go in the "other ideas" pile along with rolling randomly for lighting levels. Control Shape DCs are modified by full moon. It might or might not make a difference. We should be able to assume that all CoCo lycanthropes are aware of their state. We also should be able to assume that lycanthropes can take 20 to start in any form they wish, but in order to do this they should have at least a +5 modifier to do so regardless of the state of the moon. If they don't have the needed modifier, they might be in trouble at the time of full moon. Changing shape during a fight needs the information of the state of the moon. Then there is the small print: Retry (Voluntary Change): A character can retry voluntary changes to animal form or hybrid form as often as he likes. Each attempt is a standard action. However, on a failed check to return to humanoid form, the character must remain in animal or hybrid form until the next dawn, when he automatically returns to humanoid form. At the moment afflicted CoCo lycanthropes are as easy to play as natural ones. The +1LA makes a big difference. One important part of it is controlling shape. We should have some kind of (simple) mechanics to determine the effects of these issues. They don't seem like big things, but I've seen smaller things turn a fight upside down.
hogarth 11-06-06, 08:32 AM	At the moment afflicted CoCo lycanthropes are as easy to play as natural ones. The +1LA makes a big difference. One important part of it is controlling shape. We should have some kind of (simple) mechanics to determine the effects of these issues. They don't seem like big things, but I've seen smaller things turn a fight upside down. The bigger worry for afflicted lycanthropes (I would think) would be the involuntary change to animal form when hit points go down to 75%, 50% or 25% of maximum. I'm not sure if pitlords have been enforcing that rule consistently. (Of course there are probably only a handful of afflicted lycanthropes in the Core Coliseum so it's a small sample size.) By the way, it clarifies in the lycanthrope description that a "full moon" only occurs 3 days every month (for game purposes) so it would be more like a 10% chance, not a 25% chance (or once every 10 fights).
Abyssal Stalker 11-06-06, 08:44 AM	That's another way to see it. I was thinking that full moon is once a month, so it would be once in four weeks and we are paired on weekly basis. I'm OK with your random roll idea, if others like it too. It wouldn't need any tracking, but on the other hand it takes away something from the Living Gladius. Heck, I've even been thinking that it would be nice to have our own calendar with different seasons. Or is it always summer in Gladius and winter in the north?
TARDIS 11-06-06, 11:51 AM	A bit off topic, but I just noticed something... I (as Flaeli Stormbringer) have the dubious honor of being one of the most powerless characters in all the arena, along with such esteemed colleagues as Lutup Kraknay (amorax_kaka) and Baal of the Grave [reborn](Book5). I propose that Lutup, Baal, and Flaeli form an adventuring band to consolidate this fierce power into one unit... heck, we'd have a combined power total of a respectably healthy 18,000+, not bad for a combined ECL of 6. FEAR THE AWESOME POWER OF TEAM F.L.B.! :P (Note: This is intended as tongue in cheek humor, not pity-mongering. I just noticed it today and I think it's funny.)
TelinArtho 11-06-06, 11:54 AM	Question about lycanthropes and the full moon. We have a full moon right now. Does that effect pairings since it happened mid week? Does it go to last weeks pairings or next weeks? I ask since the uncon fights have some lycanthropes in them. Luckily for the purpose of the fight - it is not a full moon - this was decided upon quite a while ago (though I don't have specific quotes to back that up at the moment). I know Cat was looking to track it - but it hasn't been done yet, so the fight is not a "full moon fight." At the moment afflicted CoCo lycanthropes are as easy to play as natural ones. The +1LA makes a big difference. One important part of it is controlling shape. We should have some kind of (simple) mechanics to determine the effects of these issues. They don't seem like big things, but I've seen smaller things turn a fight upside down. As hogarth pointed out - the voluntary changes are not the reason why there's a +1 LA. The big reason is the involuntary change at the various thresholds. Also - to refute the statement you made, I would very much disagree: a natural lycanthrope does not need to make a skill check - will always just take a standard action; an afflicted lycanthrope has to make a DC15 - 25 check. Since none of the lycanthropes get more than a +2 to their Wisdom, and there are few races that add wisdom without a significant LA and spellcaster Lycanthropes would be pretty poor (LA of +2, plus being unable to cast (without 3 feats...) in animal form and unlikely to be able to cast (without 1 feat) in hybrid form), Wisdom will rarely be a pumped up stat. Natural lycanthropes also have a hefty, though beatable DR which is very much worth noting. Natural lycanthropes can also afflict others with lycanthropy, whereas afflicted ones cannot (something I need to change on Jar-red - but I found out about it after I had submitted him...).
Abyssal Stalker 11-06-06, 12:15 PM	As hogarth pointed out - the voluntary changes are not the reason why there's a +1 LA. The big reason is the involuntary change at the various thresholds. Also - to refute the statement you made, I would very much disagree: a natural lycanthrope does not need to make a skill check - will always just take a standard action; an afflicted lycanthrope has to make a DC15 - 25 check. Since none of the lycanthropes get more than a +2 to their Wisdom, and there are few races that add wisdom without a significant LA and spellcaster Lycanthropes would be pretty poor (LA of +2, plus being unable to cast (without 3 feats...) in animal form and unlikely to be able to cast (without 1 feat) in hybrid form), Wisdom will rarely be a pumped up stat. Natural lycanthropes also have a hefty, though beatable DR which is very much worth noting. Natural lycanthropes can also afflict others with lycanthropy, whereas afflicted ones cannot (something I need to change on Jar-red - but I found out about it after I had submitted him...). Sorry, I guess I typed it badly. I was just trying to say the same thing. I realize that natural lycanthropes have full control over their shape. My point got probably lost and orginated in Vath's post. I just wanted to say that we should have some way to determine the state of the moon because it might have an effect on fights involving lycanthropes!
MindWandererB 11-06-06, 12:36 PM	We have two easy options. 1) If Wednesday is a full moon, or the night immediately before or after, its fights are during the full moon. This would be a simple way of authentically tracking the full moon, since full moons occur in reality at the same rate they should occur in the game. I should mention that this was the decision we came to last time we discussed this. 2) There is a realistic percent chance of a full moon. 25% is too high, since statistically, only 3 nights out of 28 should be affected. That's about a 10.7% chance--but there's no reason to go with percents, just use 1-3 on 1d28. However, there is really nothing gained by using this method--it has results similar in effect to #1.
McJarvis 11-07-06, 12:15 AM	Wow, this was really last minute. I'm in the process of moving from Indiana to New Jersey. I should still be able to run fights, do guildstuffs, & such.... but my forum activity will be greatly diminished from what it normally is. Just thought I'd give a heads up on why I have been scarce.
Zelck 11-07-06, 12:18 AM	"A paladin wishes to fight me?" a musing voice intoned from seemingly midair. Then, a forest gnome ghost slowly appears in a room within the PSI Consortium. He leans against a wall by habit, even though it lends no support. His brows are furrowed in disturbed thought. Does this "Valkin" wish to test himself against me? Or is it because I'm undead.... He sighs. "Well, Woof," the ghost said to a translucent tan psicrystal, "if he wants a test, he'll get one. And if he's after me because he hates undead..." the ghost shrugs. "Well, hopefully, I'll change his mind.". Assuming no other ECL8 character activates between now and pairings, of course... you're going down, Telin :P
NiQil 11-07-06, 12:27 AM	"A paladin wishes to fight me?" a musing voice intoned from seemingly midair. Then, a forest gnome ghost slowly appears in a room within the PSI Consortium. He leans against a wall by habit, even though it lends no support. His brows are furrowed in disturbed thought. Does this "Valkin" wish to test himself against me? Or is it because I'm undead.... He sighs. "Well, Woof," the ghost said to a translucent tan psicrystal, "if he wants a test, he'll get one. And if he's after me because he hates undead..." the ghost shrugs. "Well, hopefully, I'll change his mind.". Assuming no other ECL8 character activates between now and pairings, of course... you're going down, Telin :P Oh ye of little faith..... Do you have any idea *how many times I have said that over the last year(s)? Do you have any idea *how many times I had those words shoved down my throat? Never underestimate TA. On paper, Valkin would probably be the underdog. Except that TA is running him, which makes it even money, in my eyes. Of course, I have a vested interest in seeing Valkin win any fight he is in right now, so I may be a touch biased....
Zelck 11-07-06, 12:29 AM	Oh ye of little faith..... Do you have any idea *how many times I have said that over the last year(s)? Do you have any idea *how many times I had those words shoved down my throat? Never underestimate TA. On paper, Valkin would probably be the underdog. Except that TA is running him, which makes it even money, in my eyes. Of course, I have a vested interest in seeing Valkin win any fight he is in right now, so I may be a touch biased.... There's nothing wrong with talking a bit of smack ;).
NiQil 11-07-06, 12:31 AM	There's nothing wrong with talking a bit of smack ;). No, none at all...just don't say I didn't warn ya LOL
TheMagister 11-07-06, 05:11 AM	Gone till Friday, early morning (US Central). GLGGBRB. :rolleye2:
Guildmaster (TAO) 11-07-06, 08:09 AM	Ladies and Gentlemen, The Arcane Order is proud to present new research at Post 13. A full accounting of outsiders that can be hired through lesser planar binding/ally spells has been compiled. Also lists of all spells and powers with durrations long enough to be reasonably prebuffed (NPC casting available at the University), have been listed. A full copy of the Red Wizard prestige class, for those of us with no DMG at hand, is presented. Of course theres still all the old stuff; users guide to alter self, sharing spells with familiars, casting and grappling, bard counterspells, and all the links you could ever want. This has been a public service of The Arcane Order.
NiQil 11-07-06, 10:27 AM	Question... Do I have this damage calculation correct? A TWF character with a +1 Str bonus wielding short swords: Normal damage for TWF would be 1d6+1/1d6 Damage with alchemical silver shortswords with TWF would be 1d6/1d6-1 I think that is correct, but for some reason it just looks off to me.
Macbrea 11-07-06, 10:48 AM	That should be correct NQil. Off-hand weapons do str modifier * .5 rounded down damage. Meaning of course right hand = 1d6+1 and left = 1d6.
NiQil 11-07-06, 11:15 AM	Another question... Say I have a flying animal companion who I would like to train to be able to drop things on an opponent, which would be done as ranged touch attacks for the items I am looking at for this. Would performing this type of action be considered something that an animal could do normally, or would this require a custom trick such as Attack (Touch/Ranged Touch)? As an example, suppose I wanted to have an eagle animal companion be able to drop vials of holy water from the air on an undead opponent (yes, I'm looking at you Walden...you made me think of this LOL). Using holy water in this fashion is a splash weapon, which requires a ranged touch attack. Would the eagle be able to perform this attack normally (i.e fly overhead and release them), or would it require special training? I'm looking for opinions on this one...I can see arguments for both sides.
hogarth 11-07-06, 11:23 AM	As an example, suppose I wanted to have an eagle animal companion be able to drop vials of holy water from the air on an undead opponent (yes, I'm looking at you Walden...you made me think of this LOL). Using holy water in this fashion is a splash weapon, which requires a ranged touch attack. Would the eagle be able to perform this attack normally (i.e fly overhead and release them), or would it require special training. Even if I thought that you could train an eagle as a dive-bomber (maybe, but it's pushing it and it would certainly require a custom trick), I don't think it would work against a ghost. For an incorporeal creature, you actually have to uncork the vial and pour/splash it on them at close range; read the "Holy Water" entry in the Equipment part of the SRD.
NiQil 11-07-06, 11:27 AM	Holy water can be used as a splash weapon with a ranged touch attack at 10 ft of range, as per the item description. Dropping it would simply cause it to break against the ground vs incorporeal creatures, causing the splash damage as opposed to the normal undead damage, as per the item description. Edit: And another... Since items for small creatures are half-weight, alchemical items can be crafted in smaller sizes as appropriate for a small creature. Does this reduce the damage of things like alchemist's fire, acid and the like? I can't find anything covering that one way or the other, but I would assume it would reduce it by one damage dice (d6 to a d4, for example) just like weapons do.
hogarth 11-07-06, 11:29 AM	Since items for small creatures are half-weight, alchemical items can be crafted in smaller sizes as appropriate for a small creature. As far as I can tell, the SRD has size categories for weapons and armor. That's it. So there's no such thing as a Small acid flask in the Core Coliseum.
hogarth 11-07-06, 11:31 AM	Holy water can be used as a splash weapon with a ranged touch attack at 10 ft of range, as per the item description. Dropping it would simply cause it to break against the ground vs incorporeal creatures, causing the splash damage as opposed to the normal undead damage, as per the item description. It would take a long time to kill anything doing 1 pt. of damage at a time (especially at 25 gp per shot)! I don't think an eagle has the manual dexterity required to open a vial and pour it on a ghost. Simply dropping a vial of holy water is more feasible (if silly and not particularly effective).
TelinArtho 11-07-06, 11:33 AM	"A paladin wishes to fight me?" a musing voice intoned from seemingly midair. Then, a forest gnome ghost slowly appears in a room within the PSI Consortium. He leans against a wall by habit, even though it lends no support. His brows are furrowed in disturbed thought. Does this "Valkin" wish to test himself against me? Or is it because I'm undead.... He sighs. "Well, Woof," the ghost said to a translucent tan psicrystal, "if he wants a test, he'll get one. And if he's after me because he hates undead..." the ghost shrugs. "Well, hopefully, I'll change his mind.". Assuming no other ECL8 character activates between now and pairings, of course... you're going down, Telin :P Actually - if you notice Sir Valkin is on an operation for the CEF - so he'll only be paired with you if a) no one intercepts him or b) if you intercept him. And if that is the case - good luck to you sir.
Zelck 11-07-06, 11:37 AM	Actually - if you notice Sir Valkin is on an operation for the CEF - so he'll only be paired with you if a) no one intercepts him or b) if you intercept him. And if that is the case - good luck to you sir. Aww, rats... monster fight #2!
NiQil 11-07-06, 11:39 AM	As far as I can tell, the SRD has size categories for weapons and armor. That's it. So there's no such thing as a Small acid flask in the Core Coliseum. Hence the reason I asked about splash weapons. They aren't listed in the weapons section of the PHB, but they are classified as weapons on the gear tables. As far as I can tell, the damage die reduction and weight reduction for small creatures would apply to these normally. Also, with regards to the bombing eagle, keep in mind that a normal attack routine for an eagle is to dive down and attack with talons....so the only real difference is having the eagle drop something at a slightly higher altitude instead of scratching someone at base range with its talons.
NiQil 11-07-06, 11:42 AM	It would take a long time to kill anything doing 1 pt. of damage at a time (especially at 25 gp per shot)! I don't think an eagle has the manual dexterity required to open a vial and pour it on a ghost. Simply dropping a vial of holy water is more feasible (if silly and not particularly effective). I agree...1 pt of splash damage would take awhile....but it's better than nothing if you are against incorporeal undead. Gives your animal companion the ability to at least contribute in a situation like that. And I was not considering the animal opening the vial...I agree that that would be beyond it's capabilities. But fly overs while dropping holy water, alchemist fires, acid, tanglefoot bags or thunderstones could be extremely effective in certain situations.
TelinArtho 11-07-06, 11:42 AM	Ladies and Gentlemen, The Arcane Order is proud to present new research at Post 13. A full accounting of outsiders that can be hired through lesser planar binding/ally spells has been compiled. Also lists of all spells and powers with durrations long enough to be reasonably prebuffed (NPC casting available at the University), have been listed. A full copy of the Red Wizard prestige class, for those of us with no DMG at hand, is presented. Of course theres still all the old stuff; users guide to alter self, sharing spells with familiars, casting and grappling, bard counterspells, and all the links you could ever want. This has been a public service of The Arcane Order. Too bad you didn't pay attention when I did all of my lobbying around LPA... I'll go dig up the post - because alignment is important as well (for diplomacy purposes and for Thaumaturgists). It was in the council thread a while ago. EDIT: Post #565 of the Council II has the organized information. Here's the list with the Alignments included: 1 HD (125gp/250gp for Thaumaturgist/Other) Aasimar (1HD, planetouched, CR 1/2) any good Formian Worker (1HD, formian, CR 1/2) LN Tiefling (1HD, planetouched, CR 1/2) any evil Lantern Archon (1HD, archon, CR2) LG Vargouille (1HD, CR2) NE 2 HD (250gp/500gp) Lemure (2HD, devil, CR1) LE Elemental, Small (2HD, elemental, CR1) N Azer (2HD, CR2) LN Dretch (2HD, demon, CR2) CE Magmin (2HD, CR3) CN 3 HD (375gp/750gp) Imp (3HD, devil, CR2) LE Quasit (3HD, demon, CR2) CE Thoqqua (3HD, CR2) N Triton (3HD, CR2) NG Juvenile Arrowhawk (3HD, arrowhawk, CR3) N Juvenile Tojanida (3HD, Tojanida, CR3) N Mephits (all) (3HD, CR3) N Minor Xorn (3HD, xorn, CR3) N Yeth Hound (3HD, CR3) NE Ravid (3HD, CR5) N 4 HD (500gp/1000gp) Elemental, Medium (4HD, elemental, CR3) N Formian Warrior (4HD, formian, CR3) LN Flamebrother Salamander (4HD, salamander, CR3), any evil Hell Hound (4HD, CR3) LE Rast (4HD, CR5) N Shadow Mastiff (4HD, CR5), NE 5 HD (625gp/1250gp) Xill (5HD, CR6) LE 6 HD (750gp/1500gp) Crysmal (6HD, psionic monster, CR3) any lawful Howler (6HD, CR3) CE Barghest (6HD, CR4) LE Hound Archon (6HD, archon, CR4) LG Janni (6HD, genie, CR4) N Achaierai (6HD, CR5) LE Bearded Devil (6HD, devil, CR5) LE Nightmare (6HD, CR5) NE Bralani (6HD, CR6) CG Formian Taskmaster (6HD, formian, CR7) LN Succubus (6HD, demon, CR7) CE
MindWandererB 11-07-06, 02:05 PM	I was doing some cleanup for the TLT site, and I noticed that not all the guild-related miniquests made it into the Questlog of Gladius. Specifically, "Test the Souls" by Rith for Samuel isn't up, and I seem to recall there were others that I never noticed on the Questlog, either. Remember, all quests need to go in the log, and all links need to go to the log rather than the quest thread, because the quest thread could get pruned! I saw several sheets with [thread=XXX] links to their quests instead of [post=XXX] ones.
TelinArtho 11-07-06, 02:15 PM	Thanks for reminding me - there was at least one MQ that I ran that I never moved in there that I happened to remember because of this. If there are others - please let me know.
MindWandererB 11-07-06, 02:22 PM	Unfortunately, I don't typically monitor missions/operations that aren't performed by or against TLT, so I don't usually know when a mission is over until it shows up in the quest log. I suggest to all the guildmasters to check on this, though--if you have any [thread=XXX] links to quests for your operations or missions, you should change them to point to the quest log, instead. Players can pick up on this, too, if they have [thread=XXX] links in their fight history.
TelinArtho 11-07-06, 03:24 PM	Okay, despite my better judgement, I've decided I would give a bloodline character a bit of a try, but I'm not sure about a few things. For a major bloodline (in particular - though this is the most prevalent example), does the bloodline level count with regard to gaining feats and ability score increases based on Character level? IE a level 3 major bloodline efreeti/cleric would have 2 HD - would he gain a feat at level 3 - even though he didn't gain the HD? What about at level 4 - would he gain the ability score increase then? Or would each of these be pushed back one level to 4 and 5 respectively?
hogarth 11-07-06, 03:29 PM	Okay, despite my better judgement, I've decided I would give a bloodline character a bit of a try, but I'm not sure about a few things. For a major bloodline (in particular - though this is the most prevalent example), does the bloodline level count with regard to gaining feats and ability score increases based on Character level? IE a level 3 major bloodline efreeti/cleric would have 2 HD - would he gain a feat at level 3 - even though he didn't gain the HD? What about at level 4 - would he gain the ability score increase then? Or would each of these be pushed back one level to 4 and 5 respectively? My interpretation is that you get one feat for every 3 hit dice you have and the bloodline level does not increase your hit dice. Other people might interpret it differently, though.
MindWandererB 11-07-06, 03:33 PM	Correct. Bloodline functions in almost all respects like a level adjustment that is accumulated over time.
McJarvis 11-07-06, 03:36 PM	Correct. Bloodline functions in almost all respects like a level adjustment that is accumulated over time. I agree with the feat thing -> but I wouldn't compare bloodlines to LA...there is too broad of a difference. Max skill points still get raised, level dependant abilities get raised, etc, etc.... Actually they are not that bad of a thing for skill-money type characters. Humm....
TelinArtho 11-07-06, 03:37 PM	Except... CL and abilities that are based on character level all seem to increase with it. So, just to make sure I have this right: An ECL 3 Cleric with the Strength domain and the major Efreeti bloodline would have: +1 Str (3rd level) 2d8 + 2xCon bonus HP 5x(2+Int bonus) Skill points, +2 Bluff (1st level) 1 Feat from 1HD (excluding bonus from base race), Improved Initiative (2nd level) Spells per day as a CL2 Cleric, but treated as CL3 for spell duration, range, effects, etc Strength power 1/day at +3 Str for 1 round At ECL4, he would gain a feat of his choosing and at ECL5, he would gain an ability point of his choosing. All of this correct?
McJarvis 11-07-06, 03:41 PM	Except... CL and abilities that are based on character level all seem to increase with it. So, just to make sure I have this right: An ECL 3 Cleric with the Strength domain and the major Efreeti bloodline would have: +1 Str (3rd level) 2d8 + 2xCon bonus HP 5x(2+Int bonus) Skill points, +2 Bluff (1st level) 1 Feat from 1HD (excluding bonus from base race), Improved Initiative (2nd level) Spells per day as a CL2 Cleric, but treated as CL3 for spell duration, range, effects, etc Strength power 1/day at +3 Str for 1 round At ECL4, he would gain a feat of his choosing and at ECL5, he would gain an ability point of his choosing. All of this correct? I believe so, yes.
hogarth 11-07-06, 03:43 PM	I agree with the feat thing -> but I wouldn't compare bloodlines to LA...there is too broad of a difference. Max skill points still get raised, level dependant abilities get raised, etc, etc.... Actually they are not that bad of a thing for skill-money type characters. Humm.... I pored through all of the bloodlines and I couldn't think of a single one that was better than the Phrenic template (say). A +1 bonus to a couple of stats? Feh. The exception, of course, is with the minor bloodline. Reginald Molehusband (a character that I try to put every possible sleazy idea into) took one since it's "something for nothing", at least until level 12. But by then I'm sure that either (a) Cat will change the bloodline rules and I can get rid of it in the Changes of Gladius thread, or (b) once Reg reaches 87,999 xp I'll rebuild him afresh, calling him "Reginald Reborn" or "Reginald, Second Incarnation", or (c) I'll have moved on to some other hobby by then. It's win-win!
McJarvis 11-07-06, 03:45 PM	I pored through all of the bloodlines and I couldn't think of a single one that was better than the Phrenic template (say). A +1 bonus to a couple of stats? Feh. You can't compare them directly to LA, since Bloodline levels are a lesser penalty. On top of that the Phrenic template is already fairly powerful- try comparing it to being a Drow. A bloodline level grants no increase in base attack bonus or base save bonuses, no hit points or skill points, and no class features. It counts as a normal class level (with no class skills) for the purpose of determining maximum skill ranks. Levels of bloodline never result in XP penalties for multiclass characters. Include the character's bloodline level when calculating any character ability based on his class levels (such as caster level for spellcasting characters, or save DCs for characters with special abilities whose DCs are based on class level). The character doesn't gain any abilities, spells known, or spells per day from the addition of his bloodline levels, though—only the calculations of his level-based abilities are affected. If a character has levels in two or more classes in addition to his bloodline levels, each class gains the benefit of adding the bloodline levels when calculating abilities. I thought bloodlines were worthless until I read that. Now they're just an interesting game mechanic.
MindWandererB 11-07-06, 03:49 PM	Hm, you're right. I didn't note those differences. Bloodlines could be abused in some ways that way: a Mystic Theurge could get bonuses to caster level for both classes... an Assassin could raise his Death Attack DC to 23 + Int (10 + 10 levels + 3 bloodline levels)... a psion/psychic warrior could raise the PP cap of both classes at once... I'm sure there are more.
TelinArtho 11-07-06, 03:52 PM	I'm actually not very impressed with the bloodlines and in general, my opinion on them is that it makes the character overall weaker. It does, in my opinion, add a little flavour that might not have been there without it - and at higher levels, the major bloodline does start to get a bit too powerful for my taste - but I've rarely experienced regular characters at that level - so it is a little hard to judge really. Really though, I'm not sure who benefits the most from a bloodline. The bloodline doesn't add to your Spells per day or your BAB - so it doesn't intrinsically help either spellcasters or melee builds - so unless you are a powerhouse in either department you just got a little weaker compared to a similar leveled character. It does "help" skill-monkey types - but only in allowing special abilities that will help them later on. Right off the bat, the loss of 10+ skill points probably does more harm than an extra feat or ability point. Still, I'm investigating it with a character I've been toying with for a while. A new religion with relation to Denth (though not a summoner religion). If I like it enough - you might even see a new breed of TelinArthian Clerics coming through...
hogarth 11-07-06, 03:53 PM	You can't compare them directly to LA, since Bloodline levels are a lesser penalty. On top of that the Phrenic template is already fairly powerful- try comparing it to being a Drow. I wouldn't be a Drow, either. ;) I thought bloodlines were worthless until I read that. Now they're just an interesting game mechanic. I read that line, and I still think they're worthless. ;) It does, in my opinion, add a little flavour that might not have been there without it - and at higher levels, the major bloodline does start to get a bit too powerful for my taste - but I've rarely experienced regular characters at that level - so it is a little hard to judge really. Really though, I'm not sure who benefits the most from a bloodline. The bloodline doesn't add to your Spells per day or your BAB - so it doesn't intrinsically help either spellcasters or melee builds - so unless you are a powerhouse in either department you just got a little weaker compared to a similar leveled character. I think the bloodline would probably hurt a melee build the least. What abilities do you think are "too powerful"? Spell-like abilities usable 1/day? Elemental resistances?
McJarvis 11-07-06, 04:08 PM	I think all the discussion here is a good example of why bloodlines are not really a problem in general. There are some applications that they can be useful for(Assassin builds, perhaps a feat-poor melee build), but they are not so powerful that everyone has to have them. They just are what they are. I would certainly consider a fey bloodline for Mort if it didn't interfere with my already-planned RP for her... And while gaining scent at 20th level may not be powerful, it _is_ certainly cool. ;) Same with water breathing and elemental immunities...and that "double heal rate" ability of the troll.(though that is more useful at the gaming table than CoCo, to be sure) edit- I believe the "Creating your own bloodline" section of the SRD is far more interesting from a gaming perspective, though. Now I'm thinking in terms of creating a Table-top adventure revolving around bloodlines... :-)
TelinArtho 11-07-06, 04:16 PM	I think the bloodline would probably hurt a melee build the least. What abilities do you think are "too powerful"? Spell-like abilities usable 1/day? Elemental resistances? Well, I am still just looking through everything, so I don't want to pass judgement too quickly. I was a little put off by easy access to resistances, spell-like abilities are stuff like that. What is clear to me is that even if it is "overpowered" the benefits will take a long time to manifest themselves. At ECL2, the bloodline character gets an extra feat and a skill bonus, but at ECL3, this is balanced out somewhat. In any case, I'm trying it out - just for the fun of it. If it works out - I'll post the character (whether he remains a cleric or not has yet to be determined...). If not - you won't see him :)
TelinArtho 11-07-06, 04:31 PM	Well, it looks like no one will be intercepting Sir Valkin. Does that mean he moves right along to the miniquest - or is there a week layover time? (I think this is the first time I've noticed someone not getting intercepted)
MindWandererB 11-07-06, 04:35 PM	Well, it looks like no one will be intercepting Sir Valkin. Does that mean he moves right along to the miniquest - or is there a week layover time? (I think this is the first time I've noticed someone not getting intercepted)See that "Start: 08.November" bit? That's the default, and only gets pushed back if someone intercepts. So set Valkin ready to go.
TelinArtho 11-07-06, 04:45 PM	Right - well I did want to make sure I didn't get paired up if the operation wasn't this week. Nothing against the ghost over there, but there are bigger things at stake (like striking down NiQil's horsemen in a few weeks...). If I was intercepted - that would have actually caused problems on their own... Oh well - hopefully the miniquest will go well.
Zelck 11-07-06, 04:57 PM	Right - well I did want to make sure I didn't get paired up if the operation wasn't this week. Nothing against the ghost over there, but there are bigger things at stake (like striking down NiQil's horsemen in a few weeks...). If I was intercepted - that would have actually caused problems on their own... Oh well - hopefully the miniquest will go well. Rats :P.
TelinArtho 11-07-06, 06:18 PM	Well, after tinkering around with the idea of using a bloodline, I really haven't gotten anywhere with it. Granted I'm trying to use a major bloodline - and that's probably why it isn't working too well, but I can't say it works well with the character I was trying to add it to. Too bad too - because I like the side story that would go along with it... Maybe tomorrow I'll try reworking him with an intermediate or minor bloodline. The minor one for 10 credits seems a little costly though - if I am just trying it out. If the intermediate doesn't work - I'll just go back to working on my new and improved dragon slayer (the return of Daeren? possibly...)
NiQil 11-07-06, 07:02 PM	Well, after tinkering around with the idea of using a bloodline, I really haven't gotten anywhere with it. Granted I'm trying to use a major bloodline - and that's probably why it isn't working too well, but I can't say it works well with the character I was trying to add it to. Too bad too - because I like the side story that would go along with it... Maybe tomorrow I'll try reworking him with an intermediate or minor bloodline. The minor one for 10 credits seems a little costly though - if I am just trying it out. If the intermediate doesn't work - I'll just go back to working on my new and improved dragon slayer (the return of Daeren? possibly...) Or maybe a relative...brother perhaps....or a son? Out to avenge the death of Daeren by killing the dragon that took Daeren? Could make for an interesting story.... In unrelated news, the downtime scheduled for a week from today will take us right up to pairings (or thereabouts) next Wednesday...so we'll have a day less to run fights for tomorrow's pairings.
Guildmaster (TAO) 11-08-06, 07:06 AM	Hey guys; check out the end of the fight of the week thread. We need someone to pick up a fight or two for uncon, asap! I'd be all over it but I have to go to work.
Krytos 11-08-06, 06:53 PM	Corbin Nightwalker (renlim) vs. Roy Kadeer (Krytos) Well, we knew it was going to happen eventually. Good luck to you roomie. May the best CoD win. ;)
renlim 11-08-06, 07:00 PM	YEAH! Finaly some roomie conflict! Thats right I'm tired of your snoring! LOL, Good luck Krytos!
Highfire 11-08-06, 07:48 PM	Hi guys, sorry it's been such a long absence. A lot of thing hit me harder than I expected, it was all I could do to keep up with my previous responsibilities, and my pbp's. But I am officially Withdrawing from the CoCo. I may come back in the future but cannot handle the time it takes to sort through all the nitty gritty rules, it drains all the fun from me. I want to thank you all though as my short time here has clarified some rules for me that help me enjoy my other games more. I am also withdrawing Kyst Depthice. ~Justin
Vathelokai 11-09-06, 05:45 AM	Say I have a flying animal companion who I would like to train to be able to drop things on an opponent, which would be done as ranged touch attacks for the items I am looking at for this. Would performing this type of action be considered something that an animal could do normally, or would this require a custom trick such as Attack (Touch/Ranged Touch)?I've asked about the dropping things rules numerous times and never gotten an answer. Of course I was thinking of dropping feathertoken anvils from 100 ft for 10d6 damage, but that's beside the point.Since items for small creatures are half-weight, alchemical items can be crafted in smaller sizes as appropriate for a small creature. Does this reduce the damage of things like alchemist's fire, acid and the like? I can't find anything covering that one way or the other, but I would assume it would reduce it by one damage dice (d6 to a d4, for example) just like weapons do.Check the footnotes; there are only certain items that come in small sizes. None of the alchemical items come in small size.Also, with regards to the bombing eagle, keep in mind that a normal attack routine for an eagle is to dive down and attack with talons....so the only real difference is having the eagle drop something at a slightly higher altitude instead of scratching someone at base range with its talons.I could see a familiar or other creature with a reasonable int score doing it, but otherwise you'd need a custom trick.
TelinArtho 11-09-06, 12:17 PM	OK pardon me for being a n00b, but lemme get this straight. Most of WotC's books are not 'open source'? Only open source is allowed on the wizards forums? If so, why is one allowed to use that material in say, REAL Adventures forum? I appreciate that the need for pitlords is a driving factor in the CoCo, and I am very gratefull for those who do it. In fact I take my hats off to them, they are the bricks and mortar upon which teh whole city is built. What I am trying to establish is wether or not the CoCo is worth me devoting enough time and energy to make it worth my while playing here. It seems to be a lot of fun. I can understand that there will always be complicated rules questions coming up, but I don't see why, if anything is being deemed as core as it seems, a PrC wouldn't get added if it was reasonably accepted as being balanced or at least as balanced as the other PrC's in the DMG are and if one is willing to pay the 10 or so credit points needed to use it. Now I know you said it might get added, but lets be realistic about this. Do you really think that is likely to happen? I know I must come across very upstartish, and for that, please excuse me, but I am the kind of person who doesnt like to do things half-heartedly, and before I go rushing in investing my time as a DM(or pitlord) into learning the (sometimes convoluted) ropes of this place so that I can contribute towards the general betterment of Gladius, I am interested to know why some things in the CoCo are flexible, and others not. A lot of it seems very... arbitrary. That's correct, most of the information for D&D is not open source, so we don't use it here. This, I think, has less to do with it being allowed to be talked about openly and more about availability. If something isn't mentioned in the online material available, the players without access to those materials would have a hard time working with it. As a case example, I don't actually own any 3.5 handbooks - so everything I do has to rely on the open source material or the material posted in the appropriate threads of the CoCo. I am also under the impression that we can't just "reprint" information that is in copywritten books by WotC (or other companies for that matter) unless it has been deemed Open Source. While the REAL adventures board might have a different view on this, or might have different permissions - it is also entirely possible I am incorrect on this assumption. Regardless though, allowing material that is not in the core handbooks/online SRD + UA material is difficult because of the reasons above. Either the information would need to be reprinted or the players would be forced to buy other handbooks. Since the CoCo already has a pretty intimidating set of rules in the Rules thread - adding more should not be taken lightly. As to the possibility of adding a new PrC to the mix - I think it is entirely possible. It is true that it hasn't been done before, but that doesn't mean it is not possible. Getting something added or addressed does require a lot of legwork - but if it interests you - then I would think that should be enough drive. However, as I said, this isn't an invitation to ask to have a bunch of PrCs added. Again, adding something new, while it has the potential to increase flavor, it has the possibility of making the CoCo even more impenetrable than before. As to deciding whether to give back or not - that decision is entirely up to you. I did it mostly so I could learn the intricacies of the 3.5 system first and foremost, and only secondly to try out other things that I might not try in a regular game. I have been here through most of the rules changes and I can say that for the most part, they are all good. Some of the rules changes may seem arbitrary, but you have to respect that this is a game with flexible rules in a community where everyone participating has the potential to be a player and a DM. Since we have people coming from all walks of life here - perception on what is acceptable, balanced and unbalanced can have a wide array of answers. Also - I'm moving this conversation to the Tavern since the direction of this particular conversation has little to do with the elders themselves (and I mean - by putting it in the tavern, I am simply stating that everyone can put up their own voice about it - whereas the Ask An Elder thread "should" just be a place to ask and get answers from Elders...).
TheMagister 11-09-06, 12:20 PM	<moved from the Ask an Elder Thread> ('cause I'm a helper!) <snip>...and before I go rushing in investing my time as a DM(or pitlord) into learning the (sometimes convoluted) ropes of this place so that I can contribute towards the general betterment of Gladius, I am interested to know why some things in the CoCo are flexible, and others not. A lot of it seems very... arbitrary. It is. Because there are people involved. An arbitrator is completely necessary in this atmosphere because without one, the CoCo would descend into an unplayable anarchy of "well, I want my guy to do this!" and the fun factor would drop to negative digits. It's DnD. Somebody has to make rules. Somebody has to decide what fits and what doesn't. Somebody has to occupy the place where the Buck Stops (so to speak). It seems like you're almost asking, "Why is anybody in charge? Why can't we just play anything?" The answer is (just like at home on the 'ol tabletop) "Because the DM thinks that more people will have fun this way." If you have a suggestion that you think will add "fun factor" to the CoCo, BRING IT UP! Send a PM to Caterane, or post in the Tavern. Cat has proven in the past that he is willing to entertain new ideas and approaches (and content). You have (at worst) a benevolent dictator (i.e. - a DM) that you can bring your case before. Give him a shot! TM
SauroGrenom 11-09-06, 01:37 PM	As a case example, I don't actually own any 3.5 handbooks - so everything I do has to rely on the open source material or the material posted in the appropriate threads of the CoCo.At least two elders don't have any of the core books...
Zevox 11-09-06, 02:15 PM	(Posted in the Tavern because I figured this was a more appropriate place for it than the Council) You know, Sauro has suddenly piked my curiousity about something. Cat aside, do any of you other Guildmasters like/plan to use the whole regiment/warfare system? My own opinion of those has always been rather negative, and my intent always to hire some only for defense when it became necessary. I've always figured I was one of maybe two who felt like that, but with Sauro and Vath saying what they have in the Council, it seems we have three Guilmasters who don't like it, and one who does. I know it probably doesn't matter given how strongly Cat wants it in, but given the current numbers I'm curious what the rest think of it. MWB? TM? McJarvis? Zevox
TheMagister 11-09-06, 02:35 PM	(Posted in the Tavern because I figured this was a more appropriate place for it than the Council) You know, Sauro has suddenly piked my curiousity about something. Cat aside, do any of you other Guildmasters like/plan to use the whole regiment/warfare system? My own opinion of those has always been rather negative, and my intent always to hire some only for defense when it became necessary. I've always figured I was one of maybe two who felt like that, but with Sauro and Vath saying what they have in the Council, it seems we have three Guilmasters who don't like it, and one who does. I know it probably doesn't matter given how strongly Cat wants it in, but given the current numbers I'm curious what the rest think of it. MWB? TM? McJarvis? Zevox Dude. {checks guildname} Yep. Still WAR. Oh, yeah. There's gonna be regiments all up in here. :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :elf: :elf: :elf: :elf: :elf: _____:mage:_:mage:__
NiQil 11-09-06, 02:36 PM	(Posted in the Tavern because I figured this was a more appropriate place for it than the Council) You know, Sauro has suddenly piked my curiousity about something. Cat aside, do any of you other Guildmasters like/plan to use the whole regiment/warfare system? My own opinion of those has always been rather negative, and my intent always to hire some only for defense when it became necessary. I've always figured I was one of maybe two who felt like that, but with Sauro and Vath saying what they have in the Council, it seems we have three Guilmasters who don't like it, and one who does. I know it probably doesn't matter given how strongly Cat wants it in, but given the current numbers I'm curious what the rest think of it. MWB? TM? McJarvis? Zevox Actually, I think this would be better in the Council, since that is where the guild discussion is going on anyway....also better chance of Cat reading it there.
Zevox 11-09-06, 02:53 PM	Actually, I think this would be better in the Council, since that is where the guild discussion is going on anyway....also better chance of Cat reading it there. Actually, thats why I posted it here instead. This is just me being curious of what the others think about that aspect of the system. I'm not looking to get any changes made to it or anything, and I already know what Cat thinks of it. No need to derail the current discussion in the Council for that. @ TM - Yeah, I suppose I should've expected that one. WAR is probably the only Guild aside from the CEF I can see with a good RP reason for having an army. Zevox
Caterane 11-09-06, 04:18 PM	I think the system should have something for everyone and regiment warfare definately belongs to the system as an option. I'm currently working on an oversea trade add-on and it's mostly finished (with ships, both trade and warships, and locations from the world map; don't worry I wrote it so that you can ignore it if you don't like it) and in the council we're currently looking for a way to strengthen the PC aspect. If there are now three guildmasters who don't want to focus on regiments, then you should help us in finding alternatives. Some things we should keep in mind: An increase in quests and miniquests results in less Battles of Gladius so we shouldn't add options that make guildmasters send hordes of PCs on quests. Besides, we cannot support than atm anyway. Instead, we could find a way to include the Battles of Gladius into the guild system, similar to before when we had taxes (although that was boring). It should depend on how well the character does in his arena fight. A simple victory = benefit would be one idea. Or we could use the 3FC as a regulator. Whatever you have, post it in the Council.
TelinArtho 11-09-06, 04:45 PM	Okay, I'm in the middle of reworking my former character, Daeren Stronghammer, into a more formidable Dragon Slayer. However, solo dragon slaying has never been much of an appeal. Is there anyone who would like to pair up with me on a series of quests in order to eventually slay that (*^%*(&^% dragon that slew Daeren (and Morgan and Saffron... and later Morgan and Sdentch and Grik...)? I should be posting Daeren's rebuild, Bulgar, soon. He's a Fighter/Cleric and I'm starting him at ECL3. The plan is to do one full quest per ECL from ECL3 on up to ECL11, with regular arena fights in the mix in between. I leave the exact build up to a potential ally, and would rather see purely core items without psionics - but as long as the character has personality and a decent synergy - pretty much anything will work. Just a note - for each quest, I'll be picking the dragon to fight next and it will likely be a different dragon each time (color and size) - so versatility in different situations is key. Also, since there would only be one dragon per quest - there's still two other encounters to plan for in each quest as well. Strong candidates might include a straight warrior build, a gish (fighter/wizard, barbarian/sorcerer for example). A rogue-like character would probably be underappreciated - but like I said - as long as there's personality to go with it - I'm pretty much willing to work with it. Oh - and like Daeren - if Bulgar dies on one of his quests - he goes immediately to the graveyard (well - I suppose if he's under ECL6 - he'll just remain deceased...).
TheMagister 11-09-06, 04:58 PM	Depends. If you're questlording it, no WAY. If you're playing in it, Tessero Valis is the right level, and he's pretty close to a straight warrior build (he's going into War Mind at level 6). Taking on dragons at ECL 3 is not my idea of a good time, however. ... Unless I've got a charge lane. And a lance.
Gonbow 11-09-06, 05:07 PM	Hmm. Dragon slaying you say? I've been considering wether or not I actually want to reactivate Jade of Krios (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10321199) once the S.O.E is over... she's pretty buff for a rogue (Greatswords to the back of the head are perfectly sneaky I tell you) and I was planning to move her into warrior-class levels. Fighting dragons sounds interesting. Or I could make someone completely new. Hmm.
MindWandererB 11-09-06, 05:19 PM	On armies: I am really not looking forward to it. Looking at the system as it stands, I think it's clunky, unbalanced, and grotesquely time-consuming to the pitlord. Note that TLT has no LEI or PRO whatsoever at the moment. If WAR or CEF wanted to come in and kill us in the first two months, I daresay they could do it--and under the current rules, it's impossible to create armies quickly unless you're already set up for it. I also think that the regiment battles are going to undergo massive alterations almost from the moment they leave home. However, I also realize that the only way to win will be to use troops. If all guilds expand at the same rate, we'll all fill 3 districts. Not enough for any kind of victory unless a guild gets beat down. And operations just don't deal enough damage (unless they all teamed up). It will take troops, and lots of them, to evict a guild from a district. Also, the warfare aspect will multiply the guildmaster's workload by a massive degree. Not looking forward to that, either. Next time we do a rebuild... oh, never mind. I'll save that rant for later.
NiQil 11-09-06, 05:31 PM	A question... If someone has javelins or shuriken or daggers stored in a Handy Haversack, it is normally a move action to draw one, as per the Haversack item description. If this same person has the Quick Draw feat, would that make it a free action to draw a weapon from a Haversack? Or would the Quick Draw feat not apply? Here are the descriptions in question: Handy Haversack: A backpack of this sort appears to be well made, well used, and quite ordinary. It is constructed of finely tanned leather, and the straps have brass hardware and buckles. It has two side pouches, each of which appears large enough to hold about a quart of material. In fact, each is like a bag of holding and can actually hold material of as much as 2 cubic feet in volume or 20 pounds in weight. The large central portion of the pack can contain up to 8 cubic feet or 80 pounds of material. Even when so filled, the backpack always weighs only 5 pounds. While such storage is useful enough, the pack has an even greater power in addition. When the wearer reaches into it for a specific item, that item is always on top. Thus, no digging around and fumbling is ever necessary to find what a haversack contains. Retrieving any specific item from a haversack is a move action, but it does not provoke the attacks of opportunity that retrieving a stored item usually does. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest; Price 2,000 gp;Weight 5 lb. QUICK DRAW [GENERAL] Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1. Benefit: You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see the Sleight of Hand skill) as a move action. A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow). Normal: Without this feat, you may draw a weapon as a move action, or (if your base attack bonus is +1 or higher) as a free action as part of movement. Without this feat, you can draw a hidden weapon as a standard action. Special: A fighter may select Quick Draw as one of his fighter bonus feats.
MindWandererB 11-09-06, 05:35 PM	A question... If someone has javelins or shuriken or daggers stored in a Handy Haversack, it is normally a move action to draw one, as per the Haversack item description. If this same person has the Quick Draw feat, would that make it a free action to draw a weapon from a Haversack? Or would the Quick Draw feat not apply? Here are the descriptions in question: The Quick Draw feat never applies to "stored" items, just weapons that are in easy reach (although both are normally a move action, drawing a stored item provokes an AoO and can't be combined with a move). So no, I don't think you can quickdraw out of a Handy Haversack. An Efficient Quiver, yes.
NiQil 11-09-06, 05:41 PM	The Quick Draw feat never applies to "stored" items, just weapons that are in easy reach (although both are normally a move action, drawing a stored item provokes an AoO and can't be combined with a move). So no, I don't think you can quickdraw out of a Handy Haversack. An Efficient Quiver, yes. Except with a Haversack you do not provoke, as per the item description. So by that logic, Quick Draw should apply, since you are using a move action to draw the weapon from the Haversack, which is then reduced to a free action by Quick Draw. I see no reason there why Quick Draw should not apply. Nowhere in the feat description does it say that Quick Draw does not apply to stored items...it just says that you can draw weapons as a free action instead of a move action. And it says nothing about being within easy reach. Since drawing a weapon from a Haversack is a move action, Quick Draw should apply.
TelinArtho 11-09-06, 05:45 PM	Depends. If you're questlording it, no WAY. If you're playing in it, Tessero Valis is the right level, and he's pretty close to a straight warrior build (he's going into War Mind at level 6). Taking on dragons at ECL 3 is not my idea of a good time, however. ... Unless I've got a charge lane. And a lance. Well, no I wouldn't be questlording. Being a player involved doesn't quite lend me to be a questlord as well. Plus - I don't want to know the capabilities of the dragon beforehand... I want to be surprised. Tessero isn't quite what I was planning on, but deep impact will be pretty effective later on. BTW - you should have a synergy bonus to your ride skill for having 5 ranks in Handle Animal. Of course, if you aren't keen on fighting dragons with him - well then he's obviously not a good choice :) Hmm. Dragon slaying you say? I've been considering wether or not I actually want to reactivate Jade of Krios once the S.O.E is over... she's pretty buff for a rogue (Greatswords to the back of the head are perfectly sneaky I tell you) and I was planning to move her into warrior-class levels. Fighting dragons sounds interesting. Or I could make someone completely new. Hmm. Its tough to ignore rogues - but I don't think Jade would be a suitable running mate - being evil and all... I probably should have mentioned that with Bulgar. Although his alignment is Lawful Neutral - his religion is one based around a dwarven justice system (complete with executioners). Those who would try to not be subject to the law (ie thieves, murderers etc) would probably not fit well with his personality. Depending on how Jade is, if her evilness is more bent on self-interest than of specifically doing harm to innocents - then perhaps she would match up. If you did take fighter levels, that would help her out immensely I'm sure (for dragon-slaying anyway...). And of course, evasion has its place... ----------------- I suppose another thing I should be looking for is multiple questlords who want to try their hand at running quests at all ECLs and running tough dragons. I specifically want to have Waywreth run the EL11 quest for the blue dragon - since that's his to begin with (assuming he's still willing) - but all of the rest from 3-10 are open at the moment. I'll try to get Bulgar posted soon so that prospective allies can get an idea of what I have to work with.
TheMagister 11-09-06, 05:49 PM	Except with a Haversack you do not provoke, as per the item description. So by that logic, Quick Draw should apply, since you are using a move action to draw the weapon from the Haversack, which is then reduced to a free action by Quick Draw. I see no reason there why Quick Draw should not apply. Nowhere in the feat description does it say that Quick Draw does not apply to stored items...it just says that you can draw weapons as a free action instead of a move action. And it says nothing about being within easy reach. Since drawing a weapon from a Haversack is a move action, Quick Draw should apply. That doesn't wash. I think the difference here is between "drawing" an item and "retrieving" an item. "Drawing" an item (that is a weapon or a weapon-like object) is a move action that can be a free action if done as part of a normal move if you have a +1 BAB, or as a free action all the time if you have the Quickdraw feat. "Retrieving" an item (any item, whether weapon-like or not) is a move action if it is accessible (like your beltpouch) or a full-round action if it is not readily accessible (like your backpack). You cannot Quickdraw a dagger that is stored in the bottom of your backpack, because you wouldn't be "drawing" it. You'd be "retrieving" it from a container. You cannot Quickdraw a dagger from a HHH because you are not "drawing" the dagger, you are "retrieving" an item from a container. The fact that a HHH makes this process faster does not change the process. A HHH is not a sheathe or a quiver. TM
MindWandererB 11-09-06, 05:53 PM	You cannot Quickdraw a dagger from a HHH because you are not "drawing" the dagger, you are "retrieving" an item from a container. The fact that a HHH makes this process faster does not change the process.Actually, it doesn't make it faster at all. It just eliminates the AoO. "Retrieving" an item was a full-round action in 3.0, I think, but it's a move action in 3.5. Otherwise, you phrased my argument better than I did.
Gonbow 11-09-06, 05:54 PM	Its tough to ignore rogues - but I don't think Jade would be a suitable running mate - being evil and all... I probably should have mentioned that with Bulgar. Although his alignment is Lawful Neutral - his religion is one based around a dwarven justice system (complete with executioners). Those who would try to not be subject to the law (ie thieves, murderers etc) would probably not fit well with his personality. Depending on how Jade is, if her evilness is more bent on self-interest than of specifically doing harm to innocents - then perhaps she would match up. If you did take fighter levels, that would help her out immensely I'm sure (for dragon-slaying anyway...). And of course, evasion has its place... ----------------- I suppose another thing I should be looking for is multiple questlords who want to try their hand at running quests at all ECLs and running tough dragons. I specifically want to have Waywreth run the EL11 quest for the blue dragon - since that's his to begin with (assuming he's still willing) - but all of the rest from 3-10 are open at the moment. I'll try to get Bulgar posted soon so that prospective allies can get an idea of what I have to work with. Just so; Jade is a pirate's adopted daughter, an ex-princess of the sea, if you will. She wants what she wants when she wants it and uses best means of getting it. This makes her 'evil', but she neither compulsively breaks laws (chaotic) nor tries to control others (lawful). I don't think she would have a problem working with a Lawful Neutral character as long as she isn't asked to tithe or go out of her way for zero gain to herself (Early on at least. If the two become friends as well as partners, who knows); which doesn't sound like it would be likely anyways. There is always /some/ kind of reward somewhere in D&D ;) But yeah, the plan was to take fighter and rogue levels interspred until she can take assassin levels, then into shadowdancer. Alternatively, I could cherry-pick barb 1, ranger 1 instead of the extra fighter levels, which I might do. Either way, she'll be competent in melee and ranged combat, with very strong mobility (For someone not mounted, anyways) and evasion options. And if we ever get a chance to ambush someone... Heheh.
TheMagister 11-09-06, 05:54 PM	Tessero isn't quite what I was planning on, but deep impact will be pretty effective later on. BTW - you should have a synergy bonus to your ride skill for having 5 ranks in Handle Animal. Of course, if you aren't keen on fighting dragons with him - well then he's obviously not a good choice :) Oh, I don't mind the dragons eventually. It's the prospect of facing them at third level that's intimidating. And Tessero is tough, smart, mounted, and survivable. What other qualities were you wanting in a front-line fighter? Dumb, emotionally malleable, and can hit like a Mack truck? Sdentch is a little out of your league for right now...
TheMagister 11-09-06, 05:57 PM	Actually, it doesn't make it faster at all. It just eliminates the AoO. "Retrieving" an item was a full-round action in 3.0, I think, but it's a move action in 3.5. Otherwise, you phrased my argument better than I did. Hmm. I always thought the HHH was a backpack that was (basically) treated like a beltpouch without the AoOs. Backpack = Full-round + AoO Beltpouch = Move + AoO Sheath = Free (conditionally) + no AoO HHH = Move and No AoO so "faster"
TelinArtho 11-09-06, 06:04 PM	@Gonbow - well assassin would be a bit of a stretch for Bulgar to accept - though I suppose he doesn't need to be too intimate with the "side" activities that Jade does... @TM - facing dragons earlier is FAR better (in my opinion) than later. When they're smaller - you don't have to deal with skyrocketing breath weapon damage and save DC, massive reach, massively damaging attacks, etc. You just have to deal with something that moves at the speed of a jet and is about as big as a hawk... Ironically enough, Tessero has a lot of similarities to Bulgar - even some bolas to spice things up (and no proficiency with them...). And as for Sdentch - I wish I could start with her... that personality is just TOO Much to turn down...
NiQil 11-09-06, 06:08 PM	That doesn't wash. I think the difference here is between "drawing" an item and "retrieving" an item. "Drawing" an item (that is a weapon or a weapon-like object) is a move action that can be a free action if done as part of a normal move if you have a +1 BAB, or as a free action all the time if you have the Quickdraw feat. "Retrieving" an item (any item, whether weapon-like or not) is a move action if it is accessible (like your beltpouch) or a full-round action if it is not readily accessible (like your backpack). You cannot Quickdraw a dagger that is stored in the bottom of your backpack, because you wouldn't be "drawing" it. You'd be "retrieving" it from a container. You cannot Quickdraw a dagger from a HHH because you are not "drawing" the dagger, you are "retrieving" an item from a container. The fact that a HHH makes this process faster does not change the process. A HHH is not a sheathe or a quiver. TM Then riddle me this....how do you Quick Draw shuriken? They are already a free action to draw, because they are treated like ammunition for this purpose. You can't quick draw arrows or sling bullets, so there shouldn't be any way that Quick Draw can apply. But Quick Draw does apply, because shuriken can be thrown using your BAB attack routine if you have Quick Draw. So either there is a problem with your logic on why Quick Draw does not apply to my question regarding the HHH, or Quick Draw should not apply to shuriken at all, because it does not meet the requirements set forth in Quick Draw as it relates to drawing weapons, according to your logic.
MindWandererB 11-09-06, 06:08 PM	Hmm. I always thought the HHH was a backpack that was (basically) treated like a beltpouch without the AoOs. Backpack = Full-round + AoO Beltpouch = Move + AoO Sheath = Free (conditionally) + no AoO HHH = Move and No AoO so "faster" I can't see anything in the rules that treats a backpack differently from a belt pouch. Then riddle me this....how do you Quick Draw shuriken? They are already a free action to draw, because they are treated like ammunition for this purpose. You can't quick draw arrows or sling bullets, so there shouldn't be any way that Quick Draw can apply. But Quick Draw does apply, because shuriken can be thrown using your BAB attack routine if you have Quick Draw. So either there is a problem with your logic on why Quick Draw does not apply to my question regarding the HHH, or Quick Draw should not apply to shuriken at all, because it does not meet the requirements set forth in Quick Draw as it relates to drawing weapons, according to your logic.You're quite right. You don't Quick Draw shuriken. It's a free action to draw one anyway; you can throw shuriken multiple times with a full attack whether or not you have Quick Draw.
NiQil 11-09-06, 06:19 PM	Is a javelin considered a wooden or metal weapon? I would assume wooden, but I can't find anything that says one way or the other.
MindWandererB 11-09-06, 06:21 PM	Is a javelin considered a wooden or metal weapon? I would assume wooden, but I can't find anything that says one way or the other. I assumed they're wooden-shafted, metal-tipped.
SauroGrenom 11-09-06, 06:35 PM	Just store whatever in a efficient quiver.
NiQil 11-09-06, 06:36 PM	Would the Rapid Reload feat apply to the full-round reload time associated with a Repeating Heavy Crossbow and the 5 bolt case? The feat only mentions normal crossbows....it does not touch on the repeating variety at all.
NiQil 11-09-06, 06:38 PM	Just store whatever in a efficient quiver. Problem with that is that you can only get 18 javelins into an efficient quiver. 18 ranged attacks is not enough for fights in this arena.
SauroGrenom 11-09-06, 06:46 PM	I need someone to be the PSI accountant. I'm willing to "pay" 1 credit/week for the accountant's services. Job Description: Be consistant. Provide weekly bookeeping for the guild to be sent to guildlords Maintain records of guild points of all the various kinds in storage. Update the mission/operation logs each week. Update the attitude section each week. Advise me about optimizations and changes that can be made to improve the guild's position. My duties will continue to include: Planning and posting weekly GAP and CAP for the guild. Organizing all missions. Coordinating with allies. Maintain the guild roster. Maintain the record of GAP and CAP. Please send me a PM if you are interested.
TelinArtho 11-09-06, 06:47 PM	Well, the handy haversack doesn't hold much when you're talking about javelins (if you are talking about javelins). 8 cubic feet is very limiting and the 80lbs limit would be pretty quickly met as well. If you want a javelin thrower though - but having trouble with the logistics of weight and such - I'd have to recommend having him mounted with "quivers" of javelins on the mount itself. That should still qualify as easy access and you don't have to mess with expensive Efficient Quivers. If that doesn't work too well, you could always get multiple eifficient quivers and stuff them into Bags of Holding/Handy Haversacks...
MindWandererB 11-09-06, 06:50 PM	Would the Rapid Reload feat apply to the full-round reload time associated with a Repeating Heavy Crossbow and the 5 bolt case? The feat only mentions normal crossbows....it does not touch on the repeating variety at all. Since the Repeating Crossbow is a different weapon proficiency, and thefeat says nothing about the case reloading, no, I don't think it applies. The benefits are fairly specific. If you're strong enough, you can carry a mundane quiver of javelins in the haversack, and spend a round every once in a while drawing a new quiver.
NiQil 11-09-06, 07:10 PM	Javelin's don't come in quivers...they are sold individually. To my knowledge, only the Efficient Quiver will hold javelins normally. And putting EQ's into a HHH would get real expensive in a hurry.
NiQil 11-09-06, 07:17 PM	Another question... If you use a weapon and throw it with both hands, do you get to add 1.5 your Str mod to damage? I'm looking at the spear as it relates to this question, but this would also affect the club, shortspear and trident, as they could also be thrown with two hands and would receive 1.5 Str mod to damage if used as a melee weapon with both hands.
Gonbow 11-09-06, 07:26 PM	@Niqil Thrown Weapons: Daggers, clubs, shortspears, spears, darts, javelins, throwing axes, light hammers, tridents, shuriken, and nets are thrown weapons. The wielder applies his or her Strength modifier to damage dealt by thrown weapons (except for splash weapons). Looks pretty straight forward, just 1x str bonus. I'm checking monster entries for monsters that throw spears and such, however. EDIT: Ogres and Orc's both throw jav's with a 1x str bonus. Athach's throw rocks with 1x str bonus. Azer's throw shortspears with 1x (Inconclusive, at 1.5x the bonus would be the same), skipping further jav incidents and looking for spears/clubs/tridents. EDIT the 2nd: No further incidents involving the weapons in question being thrown in the SRD; but the thrown weapons passage is pretty clear, whereas the 1.5x bonus for two-handed weapons specifically mentions melee attacks, so.
NiQil 11-09-06, 07:28 PM	@Niqil Looks pretty straight forward, just 1x str bonus. I'm checking monster entries for monsters that throw spears and such, however. That's what I was looking for....I couldn't find anything that came out and said it...I must have just walked right over that section.
MindWandererB 11-09-06, 07:50 PM	Javelin's don't come in quivers...they are sold individually. To my knowledge, only the Efficient Quiver will hold javelins normally. And putting EQ's into a HHH would get real expensive in a hurry.They don't come in quivers, but what do you hold them in? Historically, such weapons were stored in oversized quiver-like bags designed for the purpose.
Macbrea 11-10-06, 12:02 AM	May I suggest that Lady Cillansha be made a permanent NPC of Gladius after the wiping out of two different parties? :P Young Adult Blue Dragon - Cillansha the Sand Wyrm Large Dragon (earth) Hit Dice: 18d12+72 (185 hp) Initiative: +4 Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), burrow 20 ft., fly 150 ft. (poor) Armor Class: 26/30/34 (+17 natural, -1 size, +4 Mage Armor, +4 Shield), touch 9, flat-footed 26 Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+28 Attack: +23 melee (2d6+6, bite) Full Attack: +23 melee (2d6+6, bite) and +22 melee (1d8+3, 2 claws) and +21 melee (1d6+3, 2 wings) and +21 melee (1d8+9, tail slap) Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft. (10 ft. with bite) Special Attacks: Breath weapon, frightful presence Special Qualities: Blindsense 60 ft, create/destroy water, darkvision 120 ft, damage resistance 5/magic, immunity to electricity, sleep, and paralysis, low-light vision, sound imitation, spell resistance 19 Saves: Fort +15, Ref +11, Will +13 Abilities: Str 23, Dex 10, Con 19, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 14 Skills: Bluff +17, Concentration +13, Escape Artist +15, Intimidate +22, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (history) +8, Listen +25, Search +23, Spellcraft +13, Spot +25 Feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Flyby Attack, Power Attack, Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Weapon Focus (claw) Combat Breath Weapon (Su): 80-ft. line, damage 10d8 electricity, Reflex DC 20 half. Create/Destroy Water (Sp): 3/day--as create water, but can also be used to destroy water. Caster level 5th; Will DC 21. Frightful Presence (Ex): 150-ft radius, HD 17 or less, Will DC 21 negates. A young adult or older dragon can unsettle foes with its mere presence. The ability takes effect automatically whenever the dragon attacks, charges, or flies overhead. Creatures within a radius of 30 feet × the dragon’s age category are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than the dragon. A potentially affected creature that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ dragon’s HD + dragon’s Cha modifier) remains immune to that dragon’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, creatures with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons. Sound Imitation (Ex): Can mimic any voice or sound it has heard, anytime it likes. Listeners must succeed on a Will save (DC 21) to detect the ruse. Sorcerer Spells Known (6/6; save DC 12 + spell level): 0--dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, open/close, read magic; 1st--silent image, mage armor, shield.
Abyssal Stalker 11-10-06, 01:36 AM	They don't come in quivers, but what do you hold them in? Historically, such weapons were stored in oversized quiver-like bags designed for the purpose. Isn't there something somewhere about different size category weapons wielded by smaller creatures. Like a large longsword equals a medium greatsword. So I'd think that there should be large or huge quivers that should fit javelins quite well.
Caterane 11-10-06, 04:47 AM	Renamed the Character Changes thread Trainghall of Gladius. That's more in-character.
Vathelokai 11-10-06, 05:36 AM	Okay, I'm in the middle of reworking my former character, Daeren Stronghammer, into a more formidable Dragon Slayer. However, solo dragon slaying has never been much of an appeal. Is there anyone who would like to pair up with me on a series of quests in order to eventually slay that (*^%*(&^% dragon that slew [everybody]... Strong candidates might include a straight warrior build, a gish (fighter/wizard, barbarian/sorcerer for example). A rogue-like character would probably be underappreciated - but like I said - as long as there's personality to go with it - I'm pretty much willing to work with it. Oh - and like Daeren - if Bulgar dies on one of his quests - he goes immediately to the graveyard (well - I suppose if he's under ECL6 - he'll just remain deceased...).Saffron would be up, though she's ECL 10 now (and a slightly better combatant... slightly.) Any of my other characters would be interested as well. Links to them all at the bottom of my pitlord profile (see my sig for link). Depends. If you're questlording it, no WAY.Awwww... come on! We can beat him! :D I suppose another thing I should be looking for is multiple questlords who want to try their hand at running quests at all ECLs and running tough dragons. I specifically want to have Waywreth run the EL11 quest for the blue dragon - since that's his to begin with (assuming he's still willing) - but all of the rest from 3-10 are open at the moment.I can pick some up between guild quests. Do you really want the dragons to be tough? I mean like an opponent in the arena tough? Super cheap protracted tactics and all? Ok then; can do.
Vathelokai 11-10-06, 05:38 AM	May I suggest that Lady Cillansha be made a permanent NPC of Gladius after the wiping out of two different parties? :P Young Adult Blue Dragon - Cillansha the Sand Wyrm Large Dragon (earth) Hit Dice: 18d12+72 (185 hp) Initiative: +4 Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), burrow 20 ft., fly 150 ft. (poor) Armor Class: 26/30/34 (+17 natural, -1 size, +4 Mage Armor, +4 Shield), touch 9, flat-footed 26 Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+28 Attack: +23 melee (2d6+6, bite) Full Attack: +23 melee (2d6+6, bite) and +22 melee (1d8+3, 2 claws) and +21 melee (1d6+3, 2 wings) and +21 melee (1d8+9, tail slap) Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft. (10 ft. with bite) Special Attacks: Breath weapon, frightful presence Special Qualities: Blindsense 60 ft, create/destroy water, darkvision 120 ft, damage resistance 5/magic, immunity to electricity, sleep, and paralysis, low-light vision, sound imitation, spell resistance 19 Saves: Fort +15, Ref +11, Will +13 Abilities: Str 23, Dex 10, Con 19, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 14 Skills: Bluff +17, Concentration +13, Escape Artist +15, Intimidate +22, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (history) +8, Listen +25, Search +23, Spellcraft +13, Spot +25 Feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Flyby Attack, Power Attack, Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Weapon Focus (claw) Combat Breath Weapon (Su): 80-ft. line, damage 10d8 electricity, Reflex DC 20 half. Create/Destroy Water (Sp): 3/day--as create water, but can also be used to destroy water. Caster level 5th; Will DC 21. Frightful Presence (Ex): 150-ft radius, HD 17 or less, Will DC 21 negates. A young adult or older dragon can unsettle foes with its mere presence. The ability takes effect automatically whenever the dragon attacks, charges, or flies overhead. Creatures within a radius of 30 feet × the dragon’s age category are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than the dragon. A potentially affected creature that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ dragon’s HD + dragon’s Cha modifier) remains immune to that dragon’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, creatures with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons. Sound Imitation (Ex): Can mimic any voice or sound it has heard, anytime it likes. Listeners must succeed on a Will save (DC 21) to detect the ruse. Sorcerer Spells Known (6/6; save DC 12 + spell level): 0--dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, open/close, read magic; 1st--silent image, mage armor, shield. I hereby use my divine power as scribelord to make it so. Hey Waywreth! Where does Cill live anyway? Like what map square in the world thread? Hrmmm... Hey Macbrea; since the Ordo Draconis didn't make it as a guild, want to work on making it an NPC organization?
Macbrea 11-10-06, 08:33 AM	Sure, it kind of makes sense. The dragons should be a council of sorts. I would think they would manipulate politics from a very alien look. Kind of a cross between aristicratic noble and cat.
waywreth 11-10-06, 10:19 AM	I hereby use my divine power as scribelord to make it so. Hey Waywreth! Where does Cill live anyway? Like what map square in the world thread? Hrmmm... Hey Macbrea; since the Ordo Draconis didn't make it as a guild, want to work on making it an NPC organization? Who else did she get? Wow that's great! Poor parties - giving a dragon power attack is plainly mean. And I'd place her in the NE corner of square 24.
TelinArtho 11-10-06, 10:52 AM	Well, she didn't actually take out the second party - they didn't make it to her... And no - she can't be a permanent member of Gladius - because Bulgar is going to wear her scales for armor one day... @Vath - I'm not looking for super-killers, but rather just well-played dragons. Obviously a dragon with a couple of well-thought of potions could be a virtual unbeatable force. Look to the way Waywreth ran the blue dragon - I felt every move was well thought and it was a formidable opponent. Had he tricked her out with scrolls of Mirror Image, Haste, and Stoneskin - it would have been a less "memorable" encounter - because it would have been an absolute slaughter. I'm not opposed to dragons using surprise, terrain or even peons to work the situation to their advantage. The quests are primarily for development anyways - so the quicker my character dies, the less development gets done. However, I wouldn't be satisfied if I just walked over 4+ dragons without even an once of threat from them... As to your characters, Saffron Brass is always a welcome addition - even if her involvement was more to chronicle the event than to actually supply help. In fact, if she wanted to tag along "just to watch" - I would be fine with that. Running commentary from a talkative dragon is always fun... Of the ones that are lower leveled, I'm not too interested in Tweak or Psibeast, and Zodiac isn't exactly what Bulgar would consider a "good" party member... being a slave owner and power-hungry and all...
waywreth 11-10-06, 11:00 AM	I think it's important to note that from a mechanics perspective, Dragons are far more powerful than their CR. I fully believe this is intentional, and should be kept as such. They are the epitome of intelligent opponents - hunting the hunters in the case of adventurers. @Telin - I see no Bulgar on the roster, but Lady Cillansha is waiting... and hungry as always.
TelinArtho 11-10-06, 11:12 AM	Well, Bulgar is coming - I still have some logistics to work out. Planning a decent dragon-slayer that can still compete in the "real world" and still have depth of character that I'm looking for and be restricted in the ways I want can be a little daunting. Especially, since I know my eventual target... Ironically enough, I haven't even "built" him out to ECL10 to make sure I have all of the things that I'm going to need. This is mostly because every time I do, I find flaws... and I'd much rather just get going... He should be posted before the upcoming Wednesday though, and I'll be looking for my first quest to start him from that date onward (if anyone wants to volunteer for the first quest : EL3)
hogarth 11-10-06, 11:16 AM	He should be posted before the upcoming Wednesday though, and I'll be looking for my first quest to start him from that date onward (if anyone wants to volunteer for the first quest : EL3) I thought we were still under a State of Emergency at the moment. Doesn't that mean "no non-guild quests"?
TelinArtho 11-10-06, 12:13 PM	Heh - I suppose that's true. If that's the case, I'll up my pitlording possibilities...
Macbrea 11-10-06, 12:38 PM	I am not sure. Was there a change announced to the standard State of Emergency? According to the rules it says you can only activate 1 character without paying credits. It doesn't mention quests. I would be slightly annoyed if guilds get to play with quests but those that aren't part fo guilds don't get to do stuff in order to get stuff like templates.
Zevox 11-10-06, 12:46 PM	I thought we were still under a State of Emergency at the moment. Doesn't that mean "no non-guild quests"? The SoE puts no restriction on quests. I recall Cat saying he wouldn't allow mini-quests during it, but even thats not in the written rules for it. Full Quests are in no way restricted. Zevox
Gonbow 11-10-06, 01:04 PM	Hmm. Well plum. IIRC, Miniquests can be taken during a 3FC, but full quests cant... so I have to do 2 fights before I could have Jade tag along on your dragon fighting Telin, sorry =/
TelinArtho 11-10-06, 01:07 PM	No problem - it might still be a few weeks until I'm ready. It takes me a long time to really get a character ready to go. Jar-red, for instance, was the product of five weeks worth of work...
Macbrea 11-10-06, 01:09 PM	I am also pretty sure multi-player quests are well within the available as the real problem is a questlord normally takes away from one of the available pitlords. But if 2 or 3 character (whom are active) go on the same quest it means that questlord has shortened the load by at least 1 or 2 fights worth of people.
TelinArtho 11-10-06, 02:39 PM	Okay Bulgar Stronghammer has been posted. I'm open to suggestions of course. I am officially looking for a questlord for this first quest. I am willing to wait for Jade (assuming she stays ECL3) or if another candidate presents his/herself - I'll consider him or her as well. I have also decided on which type of dragon will be one to fall - a wyrmling black dragon.
hogarth 11-10-06, 02:42 PM	I have also decided on which type of dragon will be one to fall - a wyrmling black dragon. So if you and your partner are successful, you will each get 450 gp/xp for defeating a CR 3 opponent. Is that correct?
TelinArtho 11-10-06, 02:49 PM	Yes - but since it is a quest - it would be three fights over the course of three weeks.
TelinArtho 11-10-06, 04:34 PM	Looks like I'm going to amend my previous statement. The first dragon will not be a black dragon after all... Here's the current list (subject to change without notice): CR3 Very Young White Dragon - Small CR4 Very Young Green Dragon - Medium CR5 Very Young Red Dragon - Large CR6 Young Blue Dragon - Medium CR7 Juvenile Black Dragon - Medium CR8 Juvenile Green Dragon - Large CR9 Young Adult Black - Large CR10 Juvenile Red Dragon - Large CR11 Young Adult Blue - Large (Lady Cillansha)
hogarth 11-10-06, 04:54 PM	EDIT: Post #565 of the Council II has the organized information. Here's the list with the Alignments included: [abridged] 3 HD (375gp/750gp) Ravid (3HD, CR5) N This got me wondering -- was it ever decided that a gladiator can only bring it whatever she can carry? I'm imagining a gladiator buying some sets of Gargantuan scale mail (say) and having her pet ravid animate one every round! :schemes:
TelinArtho 11-10-06, 05:05 PM	Well, it wouldn't be until ECL9 (CR5 isn't allowed in the arena until then), and even then it would be a fairly expensive tactic (let's see gargantuan scale mail is what? 400gp - okay not too bad. Unless the character is a thaumaturgist, the cost of the ravid is 4SLs (LPA), 750gp for CL hours. If the character is a thaumaturgist and Neutral in alignment, he would only need a DC 20 check to get it for half-price; DC23 for free. Non neutral would need DC30 and 33 respectively. And of course, if the ravid dies in week 1... no more fun for Sparky. [EDIT - and actually since Ravid's don't have a listed language - you might need telepathy in order to benefit from the reduced rate for the thaumaturgist]
Vathelokai 11-11-06, 02:57 AM	Looks like I'm going to amend my previous statement. The first dragon will not be a black dragon after all... Here's the current list (subject to change without notice): CR3 Very Young White Dragon - Small CR4 Very Young Green Dragon - Medium CR5 Very Young Red Dragon - Large CR6 Young Blue Dragon - Medium CR7 Juvenile Black Dragon - Medium CR8 Juvenile Green Dragon - Large CR9 Young Adult Black - Large CR10 Juvenile Red Dragon - Large CR11 Young Adult Blue - Large (Lady Cillansha) I'll pick up the first one. Having a few weeks wait is a good thing. Remember to pack for cold weather. One thing of note; if you bring a friendly PC with you (like Jade), then the EL of the quest goes up. How should that be handled? Fight two of the mentioned dragon above? Fight one higher on the list? Give the dragon an ally to balance the EL? Actually, now that I think of It; This could be a decent campaign if you can find some other interested PCs (rules say 3-5). I think 3 dragons in a campaign could work out nicely. A 12 week quest would be best since it could run late and there is a max 15 week limit. Of course it would take 3-4 such campaigns to reach Cill, but whatever. Of course that would take a bit of planing. How about we think on it while I run the first quest.
Vathelokai 11-11-06, 03:05 AM	GENERAL NOTICE My weekend has turned out to be busier than anticipated. I will have very little time to be on. Sorry Questors; I'll do what I can.
Traevanon 11-11-06, 09:37 AM	Just wanted to pop in and say hello. I'm not gone. We just had our first baby! And I'm having a bit of trouble making my next character. Options so far: - Wood Elf Ranger 10 - Wood Elf Druid 10 - Undecided Race Ranger 2 / Wilder 8 The problem so far lies in multiclassing. Anyhow, I'll get it worked out. Have fun!
Guildmaster_LOY 11-11-06, 04:07 PM	The Loyalists will need a Quest Lord for a miniquest this coming week. It will likely have 3->4 participants, and should be a EL ? encounter. (I'm unfamiliar with MQ's, if someone can tell me the EL necessary for part of 3->4 participants, that'd be great.) You can find the "story" of this quest to date in the current LOY Guild thread. It should just be a battle...we have the "reason" for going already :-) The approxomate "story" of this quest is the founding quest for LOY. Essentially, we are going to be going out and finding an heir of the Royal Family's throne. The goal is purely for RP purposes. I would imagine this won't be a problem due to the SOE in effect right now since there will be two or three gladiators going on it :)
McJarvis 11-11-06, 04:16 PM	Just wanted to pop in and say hello. I'm not gone. We just had our first baby! Awesome man, congrats :) - Undecided Race Ranger 2 / Wilder 8 The problem so far lies in multiclassing. Why not Ranger 2/Wilder 3/Slayer 10? Ranger gets you the track feat & knowledge(dungeoneering) & it'll fix your Multiclassing problems :)
McJarvis 11-11-06, 05:41 PM	Are there currently any rules on the non-arena maps that give penalties to light sensitivity characters?
TelinArtho 11-11-06, 10:41 PM	One thing of note; if you bring a friendly PC with you (like Jade), then the EL of the quest goes up. How should that be handled? Fight two of the mentioned dragon above? Fight one higher on the list? Give the dragon an ally to balance the EL? Well, if this was during the 3FC and a miniquest - we would be restricted on the EL of the quest. However, since everything is outside of the cycle - I am allowed to choose the EL. At the moment, since my character has not really been tested - I want to see the quests as specified - so the first one would in fact be EL3. Actually, now that I think of It; This could be a decent campaign if you can find some other interested PCs (rules say 3-5). I think 3 dragons in a campaign could work out nicely. A 12 week quest would be best since it could run late and there is a max 15 week limit. Of course it would take 3-4 such campaigns to reach Cill, but whatever. Of course that would take a bit of planing. How about we think on it while I run the first quest. While I could certainly work within the confines of a few campaigns, I think, at the moment, I would rather keep it separate quests. This is because so many of the reqular campaigns have failed over the long run, but it is also because I want to be able to pick up and put down the character at my leisure. I will certainly take you on as my first questlord - feel free to draw on information in Daeren/Nexa's quest for inspiration if you like. @Gonbow - how soon can you get Jade ready - if you are still interested that is?
TelinArtho 11-11-06, 10:41 PM	Are there currently any rules on the non-arena maps that give penalties to light sensitivity characters? Not at the moment, no.
McJarvis 11-11-06, 11:51 PM	I give you Project: Codename Bradbury (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10257111&postcount=949) for advice & perusal. Hopefully my first original concept on this board that does not involve aging the pitlord to perfection ;)
Gonbow 11-12-06, 05:22 AM	@Gonbow - how soon can you get Jade ready - if you are still interested that is? Like I said, she only has one fight of her 3FC, so three wensdays from now is the soonest she can go on a quest; so a starting date of the 29th. And yeah, I'm still interested. I'll have Jade running this week to move towards that goal.
Abyssal Stalker 11-12-06, 08:13 AM	We just had our first baby! Congratulations! :thumbsup:
Hirumajoe 11-12-06, 11:25 PM	Just wanted to pop in and say hello. I'm not gone. We just had our first baby! And I'm having a bit of trouble making my next character. Options so far: - Wood Elf Ranger 10 - Wood Elf Druid 10 - Undecided Race Ranger 2 / Wilder 8 The problem so far lies in multiclassing. Anyhow, I'll get it worked out. Have fun! First, Congratulations! Second, my condolences. (We have a two year old...) Third, either go Human or Wilder3/Slayer X (as suggested earlier) to avoid multiclassing problems. Or do both. My character Valen Sky is a Ranger 2/Psion 3 at the moment. He's planning to go Ranger2/Psion4/Slayer 4/Shadow Dancer 2, and then finish off with Slayer 10 and Psion 6 at 20. On mostly seperate topic, anyone have any recommendations for said level 5 character to use 4294 gp on? I'm tempted to get a Handy Haversack (he already owns a Efficient Quiver). All my table top characters get Haversacks asap and load it with bunches of stuff (tents/food/water/rope/pitons/hammers/maps/ink/pens/etc). It'd totally be in character but really useless for most of the CoCo.
McJarvis 11-12-06, 11:30 PM	First, Congratulations! Second, my condolences. (We have a two year old...) Third, either go Human or Wilder3/Slayer X (as suggested earlier) to avoid multiclassing problems. Or do both. My character Valen Sky is a Ranger 2/Psion 3 at the moment. He's planning to go Ranger2/Psion4/Slayer 4/Shadow Dancer 2, and then finish off with Slayer 10 and Psion 6 at 20. On mostly seperate topic, anyone have any recommendations for said level 5 character to use 4294 gp on? I'm tempted to get a Handy Haversack (he already owns a Efficient Quiver). All my table top characters get Haversacks asap and load it with bunches of stuff (tents/food/water/rope/pitons/hammers/maps/ink/pens/etc). It'd totally be in character but really useless for most of the CoCo. My advice would be to save the cash until a time that you do have a need, but if you wanna do the sack for RP that's cool too. PS-> I like the concept behind Valen, and have contemplated making such a character for a long while. Ultimately I decided to go with The Illustrated Man merely because I didn't want to look like I was just following in your footsteps ;)
Zevox 11-12-06, 11:49 PM	On mostly seperate topic, anyone have any recommendations for said level 5 character to use 4294 gp on? Well, you're correct that the Haversack would be useless in the CoCo, especially since you already have that quiver. Might I suggest enchanting your bow? 2,000 gp for +1 damage and the ability to auto-bypass DR X/Magic (from Protection from Arrows spells/potions, Half-Celestials/Fiends, many monsters, etc) ain't bad, particularly considering it also sets you up to get future enchantments (Flaming, Shocking, Frost, Psychokinetic, and Seeking are all nice enchantments that would cost you only 6,000 gp at a later date once its enchanted). I'd suggest saving the other 2,294 for something you really want later. Or you could use 4,000 of it on a stat+2 item (Gloves of Dexterity +2 or Headband of Intellect +2 look like what you'd want). Those are always useful. Zevox
Abyssal Stalker 11-13-06, 02:04 AM	How much would a custom item of augmented expansion (10 minutes/level, ML1) 3/day cost?
Caterane 11-13-06, 03:48 AM	Vecnoran earns 2° for his performance. Here's the stage.
Zevox 11-13-06, 07:58 AM	How much would a custom item of augmented expansion (10 minutes/level, ML1) 3/day cost? Well, it couldn't be ML 1 - as it costs 3 pp total to manifest that kind of expansion the minimum ML is 3. But presuming you make it a command word item, it'd be 1,800 x 2 (PL) x 3 (ML)/(5/3 charges) = 6,480 gp and 15o. Zevox
Abyssal Stalker 11-13-06, 08:49 AM	Well, it couldn't be ML 1 - as it costs 3 pp total to manifest that kind of expansion the minimum ML is 3. But presuming you make it a command word item, it'd be 1,800 x 2 (PL) x 3 (ML)/(5/3 charges) = 6,480 gp and 15o. Zevox Does augmenting increase the power level? I thought that expansion is a 1st-level power. So it would cost only 3240gp?
McJarvis 11-13-06, 10:25 AM	Does augmenting increase the power level? I thought that expansion is a 1st-level power. So it would cost only 3240gp? Every 2 pp you augment a power by makes it 1 level higher for item purposes around here. I'm not sure if it's based on rules or just a house-rule, though.
Guildmaster_LOY 11-13-06, 10:41 AM	The Loyalists will need a Quest Lord for a miniquest this coming week. It will likely have 3->4 participants, and should be a EL ? encounter. (I'm unfamiliar with MQ's, if someone can tell me the EL necessary for part of 3->4 participants, that'd be great.) You can find the "story" of this quest to date in the current LOY Guild thread. It should just be a battle...we have the "reason" for going already :-) The approxomate "story" of this quest is the founding quest for LOY. Essentially, we are going to be going out and finding an heir of the Royal Family's throne. The goal is purely for RP purposes. I would imagine this won't be a problem due to the SOE in effect right now since there will be two or three gladiators going on it :) I'd like to bump this request to the top of the pile again. If we don't get a QL I guess we can request one be randomly assigned-> Or I can pressure Krytos into doing it. >=] (Speaking of which: Kryt, if you wanna do it we can help you along with all the mechanics of QLing & what to do...it should be alot like running a fight!)
Caterane 11-13-06, 01:03 PM	FYI: ECL 3 & 4 PCs can join w/o MQ
McJarvis 11-13-06, 01:06 PM	FYI: ECL 3 & 4 PCs can join w/o MQ Any ECL can join LOY without Miniquest right now. The Miniquest is purely meant to be RP, and since it consists of at least 2 gladiators+1 QL, it shouldn't hurt the pittlord:gladiator ratio.
Vathelokai 11-13-06, 06:05 PM	Every 2 pp you augment a power by makes it 1 level higher for item purposes around here. I'm not sure if it's based on rules or just a house-rule, though. Both actually. House rule says that you increase powerlevel for every 2 pp added. (so at 3pp, 5pp, 7pp etc.) FAQ says that you increase powerlevel whenever you increase it past the base ammount. (so at 2pp, 4pp, 6pp, etc.)
Zelck 11-13-06, 07:22 PM	FAQ says that you increase powerlevel whenever you increase it past the base ammount. (so at 2pp, 4pp, 6pp, etc.) Nope. Power level actually always stays the same no matter how much you augment it, meaning stuff like Globe of Invulnerability is pretty good vs. psionics.
Erithmu 11-13-06, 07:46 PM	@All: I am back from a series of vacations, of which I recieved little to no sleep. I am back on the pitlord roster, and am open to picking up some quests/missions (but only one at a time, with a lay over around finals.) @Telin: I'll run a few of those dragon quests. Gimme a day to catch up in the campaigns, I'll try to post something Tuesday morning unless I am needed presently. (Achos will get a quick post)
MindWandererB 11-13-06, 08:35 PM	Nope. Power level actually always stays the same no matter how much you augment it, meaning stuff like Globe of Invulnerability is pretty good vs. psionics. Technically true, but they were talking about power level for the purpose of item pricing. Vath's right for that.
NiQil 11-13-06, 09:57 PM	Yeesh...so it's come to my attention that I suck at running anything that doesn't have full attack progression.....or maybe I was just the last one to notice this LOL. I'm just too damn melee-minded for my own good So...I am taking ideas for full attack progression character concepts. I'm tapped on ideas at the moment (mainly from having a creative block at this time), so I'm willing to build and run someone else's idea, if anyone is so bold. Figured I would throw this out there...just looking for a creative spark.
McJarvis 11-13-06, 10:00 PM	Yeesh...so it's come to my attention that I suck at running anything that doesn't have full attack progression.....or maybe I was just the last one to notice this LOL. I'm just too damn melee-minded for my own good So...I am taking ideas for full attack progression character concepts. I'm tapped on ideas at the moment (mainly from having a creative block at this time), so I'm willing to build and run someone else's idea, if anyone is so bold. Figured I would throw this out there...just looking for a creative spark. You could always try that whirling frenzy barbarian thing that we all fear will come out of UA.
Zevox 11-13-06, 10:08 PM	You might try a straight Ranger. I don't think we've ever seen one of those, but the class is pretty good as warrior classes go - free two-weapon fighting or archery feats as you go, some nice support and buffing spells, lots of skills, good HD, favored enemy bonuses every 5 levels, and an animal companion. I've wanted to do that myself, but I've got too many characters as-is. Zevox
McJarvis 11-13-06, 10:22 PM	You might try a straight Ranger. I don't think we've ever seen one of those, but the class is pretty good as warrior classes go - free two-weapon fighting or archery feats as you go, some nice support and buffing spells, lots of skills, good HD, favored enemy bonuses every 5 levels, and an animal companion. I've wanted to do that myself, but I've got too many characters as-is. Zevox Don't forget about woodland stride. That's really cool in CoCo...and is usually a "lesser" ranger ability :)
MindWandererB 11-13-06, 10:42 PM	Amen. There were several warrior builds in the UnCon contest that seemed effective. Hogarth's whirling frenzy wolf totem orc paragon was a pretty impressive build, and only missed getting at least my 3rd-place vote because of an inadequate armor class. You might also try a psiwar-slayer build--with Offensive Precognition, they have the same attack bonus as a full-BAB, and higher once they start getting Slayer levels. And there are always lycanthrope builds, too--there's a lot of fun ways to go with that.
Vathelokai 11-13-06, 10:47 PM	So...I am taking ideas for full attack progression character concepts. So that gives us... Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger Blackguard, Duelist, Dwarven defender, Horizon walker Slayer, Warmind (both require 1pp or more) Arcane archer (for loss of one combat lv) Eldrich knight (for loss of 5 combat lvs.) Dwarf, Half-Orc, Orc Paragons Half-Dragon Paragon (for +3 LA) Variant Unearthed versions of the above classes If you feel like blowing the credits, a Half orc/full orc paragon could be cool; a total of +6 to str over 8 levels, on top of base racial stuff. Fighters aren't my specialty; nothing seems to be comming to mind.
MindWandererB 11-13-06, 11:21 PM	If you feel like blowing the credits, a Half orc/full orc paragon could be cool; a total of +6 to str over 8 levels, on top of base racial stuff.How does that work? I see only +2 Str for either, and you can't take both. If you really want a high Str and no LA, go with an orc: Barbarian 1 Sorc or Bard 1 Orc Paragon 3 (Alternatively, skip the Barb level and take a major bloodline that grants +Str instead) Dragon Disciple X By ECL 10, you have +10-11 to Str, no loss of HD, and very little loss of BAB (2-3). Oh, and big hit dice. And some arcane dabbling. Hmm... actually sounds kind of fun.
McJarvis 11-13-06, 11:59 PM	How does that work? I see only +2 Str for either, and you can't take both. Half orcs can take 3 levels of the Half-Orc paragon backed up by 3 levels of the Orc paragon. Not worth it IMO since full orcs get an extra +2 str already anyway.
Vathelokai 11-14-06, 12:18 AM	How does that work? I see only +2 Str for either, and you can't take both. Divided Ancestry (Ex): Unlike other racial paragons, half-orcs(elves) can take levels in more than one racial paragon class. After gaining at least one level as a half-orc paragon, a character can take either orc paragon levels or human paragon levels (but not both). Well, half orc paragons get bonus to intimidate, strength, and 1/day rage. d8 HD Orc paragons get better darkvison, less light sensitivity, weapon/armor proficiency, bonus str, and elves as a favored enemy. d10 HD. Looks like an orc paragon barbarian would be the best of that equation. As for the dragon deciple route, NiQil mentioned a straight HD=BAB sort of build. Maybe orc paragon wolf totem, or maybe orc paragon whirling barbarian (since we're spending NiQil's credits for him... :D ) Now for real challenge, I'd like to see someone make dualist work. Maybe one of the UA classes like thug could round it out... I'll think on it.
McJarvis 11-14-06, 12:48 AM	Well, half orc paragons get bonus to intimidate, strength, and 1/day rage. d8 HD Orc paragons get better darkvison, less light sensitivity, weapon/armor proficiency, bonus str, and elves as a favored enemy. d10 HD. Looks like an orc paragon barbarian would be the best of that equation. As for the dragon deciple route, NiQil mentioned a straight HD=BAB sort of build. Maybe orc paragon wolf totem, or maybe orc paragon whirling barbarian (since we're spending NiQil's credits for him... :D ) Now for real challenge, I'd like to see someone make dualist work. Maybe one of the UA classes like thug could round it out... I'll think on it. 7th level ability for duelist is the only real reason I see in taking it. Even then, +7 dodge bonus to AC at 12th level isn't entirely *fantastic*...the class isn't even like the dragon disciple(potentially good-> but overshadowed by a template)...it's just plain...not interesting =\
Zevox 11-14-06, 12:52 AM	7th level ability for duelist is the only real reason I see in taking it. Even then, +7 dodge bonus to AC at 12th level isn't entirely *fantastic*...the class isn't even like the dragon disciple(potentially good-> but overshadowed by a template)...it's just plain...not interesting =\ Eh, I don't know. Precise Strike is nice, if annoyingly slow in accumulating. Adding int to armor is good too - could be potentially abused by a monk/psion or monk/wizard with mage/interital armor and shield/force screen to make up for the loss of ability to wear armor or shields. And Acrobatic Charge is nice, though not worth a 6 level investment in itself. Overall its more of a flavor PrC than anything though. Zevox
Vathelokai 11-14-06, 01:01 AM	Wanted One Questlord yeah, like we have a surplus of those this week Antalya, ecl7, is looking to join TLT and needs someone to either A) run a quick miniquest B) just run a monster fight If no takers, then I warn whichever unsuspecting Pitlord that I'd just prefer the monster fight. I can get the RP done in the guild thread. Though if someone is interested in doing the quest for real, that would be great. Thanks.
McJarvis 11-14-06, 01:13 AM	Eh, I don't know. Precise Strike is nice, if annoyingly slow in accumulating. Adding int to armor is good too - could be potentially abused by a monk/psion or monk/wizard with mage/interital armor and shield/force screen to make up for the loss of ability to wear armor or shields. And Acrobatic Charge is nice, though not worth a 6 level investment in itself. Overall its more of a flavor PrC than anything though. Zevox Precise strike is ok, but I'm not going to take 10 levels of a class to add an average 7 damage to my attacks. Let's look at that further, though: 1 handed piercing weapon: Trident gives most damage. 4.5(1d8) + str + 7(2d6). Compare with a two-handed weapon: 7(2d6)+ str * 1.5(two handed). The damage is only 4.5 dmg - 1/2 str away from each other. Throw in the fact that you're missing out on several feats the fighter could give you(worst case scenerio: weapon specialization) and the difference doesn't seem that large. Int to armor is so-so, but most of the builds you mentioned are either casters(better off doing something that provides caster levels) or things that will suffer MAD quickly(monks?). Acrobatic Charge is...so-so. I'm afraid I don't really see it as being all that useful, though. Ellaborate parry is about all the class really offers, and even then it's not 'till 7th level. I'm afraid I'm at a loss on what the class is good for other than perhaps a gestalt gish. On the other hand, in the hands of a good tactician any full BAB class can be good, I guess..... :-)
Abyssal Stalker 11-14-06, 01:31 AM	The Loyalists will need a Quest Lord for a miniquest this coming week. It will likely have 3->4 participants, and should be a EL ? encounter. (I'm unfamiliar with MQ's, if someone can tell me the EL necessary for part of 3->4 participants, that'd be great.) You can find the "story" of this quest to date in the current LOY Guild thread. It should just be a battle...we have the "reason" for going already :-) The approxomate "story" of this quest is the founding quest for LOY. Essentially, we are going to be going out and finding an heir of the Royal Family's throne. The goal is purely for RP purposes. I would imagine this won't be a problem due to the SOE in effect right now since there will be two or three gladiators going on it :) I'll take a shot on this. Just send me some info what you are expecting so I can turn it upside down and shove the whole party into the Black Pits of Abyss! :evillaugh
MindWandererB 11-14-06, 02:40 AM	Half orcs can take 3 levels of the Half-Orc paragon backed up by 3 levels of the Orc paragon. Not worth it IMO since full orcs get an extra +2 str already anyway.Right. I read the rules. Really. <cough> Re: dragon disciple: Considering the fact that they get a minimum of useful abilities, I think they're similar enough to a full-BAB class to be worth considering. And getting a mess of level 1 spells per day isn't so bad, or so complicated. And having no LA, a 28 Str (+9 hit, +13 2H damage), and a +6 BAB at ECL 10--that's a +15 to hit without even a masterwork weapon. And a secondary attack at ECL 9. And/or Power Attack. And 63+10x Con HP. And +2 natural AC and claw and bite attacks. Yeah, that could be fairly potent. Give me that over a Duelist any day.
Abyssal Stalker 11-14-06, 04:10 AM	Man, those Celestials are bloodthirsty! They're even worse than the EHTC!
Caterane 11-14-06, 06:04 AM	"Those who stand in the way of the will of the gods shalt be purged"
Abyssal Stalker 11-14-06, 07:21 AM	:) Isn't the medieval image of "good" twisted. They are lawful good and are acting accordingly, but somehow everything just doesn't look right. Somehow the "agree with me or I chop your head off" -good doesn't quite meet with my morale. But this is how D&D is supposed to be, orcs are evil. Period. "But they are acting in their natural way!" "No. They are evil." "But they are only defending themselves!" "No. They are evil and thus must die." "Oh, now I see..." Don't take this as an offence! You all are doing a great job with them. It's just that D&D morales are quite...black and white. Like you didn't know it. :)
Macbrea 11-14-06, 08:02 AM	So, thirty years ago I got a present from a relative.... http://home.earthlink.net/~macbrea/COCOMaps/Basic2Rule.jpg ... as they say in my parts.. Ya'll are youngins...
Abyssal Stalker 11-14-06, 08:12 AM	Look! The lawful good paladin and the noble wizard are attacking the foul dragon! But it has been sleeping in his home and the adventures are sneaking upon it. Then they intend to take it's belongings and spend them to buy new quipment to themselves! Ah yes, of course. But you see, the dragon is evil... Looks like thirty years ago pointy hats were the coolest thing one could imagine. :)
Macbrea 11-14-06, 08:24 AM	Hey, they were cool in the disco era!
Zevox 11-14-06, 08:26 AM	"Those who stand in the way of the will of the gods shalt be purged" "There are more Gods than just the fools celestials serve." ;)
Abyssal Stalker 11-14-06, 08:29 AM	Hey, they were cool in the disco era!:dancin: :cheer: :lop: :dancin:
Scribelords 11-14-06, 09:00 AM	Announcement The writing contest for November is come to a close soon! We are perilously short on entries. Please get your submission in today!
McJarvis 11-14-06, 09:21 AM	D&D shows off its age. The morals imposed are from a more "modern" age of ethics, and we live in a post-modern world. That's why it's so hard to explain the ethics system to younger players...they just don't have the capacity to fully understand modern thought since they've grown up in a post-modern world. :-)
Erithmu 11-14-06, 09:42 AM	Wanted One Questlord yeah, like we have a surplus of those this week Antalya, ecl7, is looking to join TLT and needs someone to either A) run a quick miniquest B) just run a monster fight If no takers, then I warn whichever unsuspecting Pitlord that I'd just prefer the monster fight. I can get the RP done in the guild thread. Though if someone is interested in doing the quest for real, that would be great. Thanks. I'll take it. Put it in title line, feel free to RP a little in the TLT thread some and we can set it up.
Macbrea 11-14-06, 09:44 AM	I always thought of the alignment system in a more Nietzsche kind of thought. Good -- Represents those people/creatures that are weak and must band together for strength. Their actions follow very peaceful means, but, when threatened they respond by eliminating the threat to the general good population. In the case of a Paladin killing off evil creatures on sight, he/she is the extreme of doing actions to protect the masses from the general attacks of the outside world. Evil -- Is those creatures that prey on good. They seek to subjugate or destroy those that gather together to form groups only set up to protect each other. Groups of evil creatures are mostly together to overcome a major threat. They also prey on each other because only the most powerful evil groups can claim land or property. A band of orcs finds it must stay together under a powerful leader in order to be able to affect the outside world with any meaning. They seek to destroy all of the good races because those races are weak and can be destroyed. They hunt down merchants because they have stuff worth taking. Lawful -- Represents those people that follow the rules set before them to the letter, whether good or evil doesn't really matter. If they set a group of laws or rules to a situation, they must be followed. A Lawful good individual will generally follow the rules in such a manner that they will protect the weak and those that cannot defend themselves. The Lawful evil creatures will set forth a set of rules to combat that include things like; you must always release one of your opponents to go forth and tell of what happened at this battle. These rules were set long before the Lawful creature began any action they were doing. They live by them. Chaotic -- Creatures of this nature make up the rules that they need on the spot. They view things as necessary for their own survival. Under no circumstance should they allow themselves to be ruled without some more powerful authority over the top of them. Personal freedom and choice dictates how they make their decisions. Adding good or evil to this only flavors how those personal freedoms are exhibited. The Chaotic good elves feel that they each have an opinion and it should be observed. Where the chaotic evil orcs are ruled by the strongest but feel as soon as they are out of the eyesight of that ruler they may do any action necessary to get the task done. This result in a lot of infighting but also makes them very deadly.
hogarth 11-14-06, 10:03 AM	Macbrea, I think you can abridge yourself a little bit: Good = merciful Evil = cruel Lawful = consistent Chaotic = arbitrary
Macbrea 11-14-06, 10:05 AM	I wouldn't place it quite like that more like: Good -- Those weak groups that band together for protection. Evil -- Those that prey on those weaker then them. Lawful -- Those that live by honor or rules. Chaotic -- Those that live by personal freedom and choice.
McJarvis 11-14-06, 10:06 AM	Plus the abridgement hogarth mentioned takes out all of Nietzsche's condescension towards those who believe in God ;) "Weak groups that band together for protection" doesn't fit D&D, since "good" in D&D is strong groups protecting the weak. (Thus the Paladin, by himself, has the power to vanquish those evil orcs).
Macbrea 11-14-06, 10:07 AM	Generally, a good group will only prey on something much weaker then itself. In the case of most humans in fantasy worlds that is other humans or cattle.
Macbrea 11-14-06, 10:13 AM	Well, I did leave out his person views of churches. Which is to say that he believed churches were considered good and anyone not in a church was considered evil. That verses his view of nature being the opposite were the strong (good) creature is the one that preys on the weak (bad) ones. His philosophies are very anti-religious but not without basis. What can be taking from his observations though is that generally groups band together for social interation and protection. And only those creatures outside to the main group are considered evil. In order to overcome good creatures, evil creatures are left with either ambushing or gathering a much more powerful force to be able to prey on good creatures.
McJarvis 11-14-06, 10:15 AM	Generally, a good group will only prey on something much weaker then itself. In the case of most humans in fantasy worlds that is other humans or cattle. I don't think you can generalize that way about worlds that consist of imaginary people, especially one with a supernatural world intact where good and evil forces are perfectly balanced throughout all of eternity. That aside, this discussion is going to quickly turn into a philosophical debate...and we all know how well those go over on gaming boards. :)
Macbrea 11-14-06, 10:27 AM	Well, I think no matter what you do when discussing alignment your discussing philosophy. On fantasy worlds, they are each designed differently. The alignment system was put in place only to represent general viewpoints from where it stands. In truth, they are a guideline for the gamemaster to roleplay their NPCs. The players are going to play the character however they want. When forcing a mindset on a player they have a habit of playing the alignment much differently then how the gamemaster would feel that is appropiate. This is because generally humans think differently on many topics. So, the concept of what a paladin would do in a situation is a tad subjective. In my opinon, a Paladin represents the extreme fanatic of an individual that seaks to protect those that cannot protect themselves only if the action required to protect them does not break any preset rules of honor or laws of the land. Example: a Paladin runs across a noble lord, who has beat a barmaid into unconsiousness. He should object to the treatment of the barmaid by the Noble but might have to find another way to challenge the Noble instead of straight up killing him. This is because in the land that the Paladin is in he cannot attack an kill the Noble because the Noble is the law at this location. Paladin's should not hold being good over being lawful. Both are requirements of their class.
Guildlords 11-15-06, 03:03 PM	Since we were off-line for a day there, guild CAP reactions will be due at 1 AM GMT (5 hours from now), and the GAP actions for Nov. 15 will be due whenever Cat decides the arena deadline for the week is. both CAP reactions and GAP actions will be due at midnight GMT (4 hours from when this post was made).
NiQil 11-15-06, 03:42 PM	So thanks to some of the ideas you guys tossed around, I managed to come up with some things I haven't done before...take a peak and let me know if you see any errors, or have any suggestions. Elb Foraker: Barbarian 3 [00 W / 00 L] [Barbarian 20] Terek Molt: Fighter 3 [00 W / 00 L] [Fighter 20] Vaden Wick: Ranger 3 [00 W / 00 L] [Ranger 20] And a special thanks out to Vath for offering to spend all of my credits LOL
TelinArtho 11-15-06, 03:45 PM	Quick suggestion I would have is to fix the link to Vaden Wick (since that currently points to Elb...)
NiQil 11-15-06, 03:48 PM	Quick suggestion I would have is to fix the link to Vaden Wick (since that currently points to Elb...) fixed
MindWandererB 11-15-06, 04:05 PM	It's a good thing Terry Brooks is fairly prolific--NiQil's going to run out of Shannara names one of these days.
NiQil 11-15-06, 04:08 PM	It's a good thing Terry Brooks is fairly prolific--NiQil's going to run out of Shannara names one of these days. Heh....I'm horrible at making names, so I tend to rob them from literature... Besides, wait til I jump to The Wheel of Time for names...
TelinArtho 11-15-06, 04:10 PM	fixed Yes, but now your sig is screwed up...
MasterLucan 11-15-06, 04:11 PM	Hey, so I'm new here. I'm not quite sure what this place is all about, but it seemed kind of cool and right up my alley. I've been going through some serious withdrawals lately since I'm now in college and no-one here plays or has time to. If anyone could give me some pointers and help me get started, it would be greatly appreciated. Peace, Master Lucan
NiQil 11-15-06, 04:14 PM	Yes, but now your sig is screwed up... Not unless the boards did it...my sig should be fine.
MindWandererB 11-15-06, 04:15 PM	Heh....I'm horrible at making names, so I tend to rob them from literature... Besides, wait til I jump to The Wheel of Time for names... I just use random generators most of the time. Most of my characters happen to be elves, so I use the table out of Races of the Wild. I have my own table for dwarves. For humans, when I lack inspiration I use this: http://rinkworks.com/namegen/ Or, if I'm desperate, I use a technique Andy Collins mentioned: look at any passage of text and slap the last couple of letters of one word onto the beginning of the next. Just looking at the paragraph I just wrote, I can pull out Tersha, Orsmo, Henil, Pentobe, etc. Not the best names, but useful in a pinch. @Lucan: You're in luck; we just put up a new quickstart guide (here). If you have any questions after that, let us know.
waywreth 11-15-06, 05:42 PM	Double Post
waywreth 11-15-06, 05:43 PM	If anyone could give me some pointers and help me get started, it would be greatly appreciated. Peace, Master Lucan Welcome to the Core Coliseum or CoCo. I would start with the Rules of Gladius thread - specifically this handy "Quick Start Guide". And yes... reading the post above mine is indeed overrated.
Krytos 11-15-06, 08:06 PM	I've got a question. According to the rules Customize: While most monsters can be played right out of the Monster Manual, others need to be fleshed out. Entries like "5th level drow wizard NPC" have no equivalent in the SRD so it is up to you to create these NPCs. You don't have to list a complete character sheet but the important things, like spells and powers, equipment, feats, relevant skills and similar things must be included in the fight. That means if I rolled a monster, say a black bear, I shouldn't buy equipment for it right?
Zelck 11-15-06, 08:09 PM	I've got a question. According to the rules That means if I rolled a monster, say a black bear, I shouldn't buy equipment for it right? Right. Only if it has a treasure line.
renlim 11-15-06, 08:35 PM	Ok so I have a question about sundering within the CoCo. If one has sunders his opponents weapon, and it is destroyed, dose he still have that weapon for the remainder of his 3 fight cycle? Or is he doomed to deal without it? I'm for the later really, but what is the call here? I cite this fight as an example. (Shreckentaum's 2nd Fight)
Zelck 11-15-06, 08:39 PM	Ok so I have a question about sundering within the CoCo. If one has sunders his opponents weapon, and it is destroyed, dose he still have that weapon for the remainder of his 3 fight cycle? Or is he doomed to deal without it? I'm for the later really, but what is the call here? I cite this fight as an example. (Shreckentaum's 2nd Fight) Destroyed equipment (but not used equipment) is returned after each fight. Dead allies, however, are returned only after the 3FC.
Guildlords 11-15-06, 11:28 PM	In case folks missed the announcements in the guild hall: Rules changes: You all know that ECL 3 and 4 characters no longer need miniquests to join guilds. Guildmasters may need to give characters the boot a little bit more often, if someone joins and then never shows up again. In addition, the rules on whem to use the Random Encounter tables have been formalized: they must be used on all Operations and on Special Missions. They do not have to be used for regular Missions. For guild entry miniquests, they are not mandatory but the player may request one if desired. And speaking of Special Missions... rumors float on the horizon. The first World Event will take place beginning December 20. The details will be announced no later than December 6. Participants in the World Event must be announced using the CAPs of December 13, so guildmasters, make sure to clear your calendars.
Guildmaster_LOY 11-15-06, 11:37 PM	ReminderSize 7 is fun Only about one and a half more weeks for ECL 5 and up characters to join LOY without having to do a MQ. We have 3 empty spots for higher level chars....don't make them go to waste ;)
Zelck 11-16-06, 12:58 PM	What are the plot lines that we have right now? Illveran, Demon Lord Lazarus, and Diamok Achos Denth The Drow The Githyanki Aptari and Habari (no quests on this yet, but soon...) Anything else?
Zevox 11-16-06, 01:22 PM	What are the plot lines that we have right now? Illveran, Demon Lord Lazarus, and Diamok Achos Denth The Drow The Githyanki Aptari and Habari (no quests on this yet, but soon...) Anything else? Off the top of my head: The Winds of Death & Ajj-Kofal. (KU plotline) Balbanes, Ajora, & Ajj-Kofal. (KU plotline) Mokriat, Mephistopheles, Ajj-Kofal, & Asran. (KU plotline) The Six Seers. (KU plotline tied w/ Asran and the Winds of Death ones) The Eater of Souls & The Six (KU plotline) Galladi. (TelinArtho plotline - cut short when he left for a while, characters previously involved have retired) Lady Cillansha the Blue Dragon. (TelinArtho/Waywreth plotline) Elerania (My own plotline for two of my characters - quests are a while in coming, but background is being laid by stories I'm writing for the writing contests when I get the time.) As you can see, KU has quite a number - most of them interconnected, I'm pretty sure. A pity hes only doing his campaigns and Asran's quests while in psuedo-retirement right now... Zevox
waywreth 11-16-06, 04:39 PM	Although I can't Pitlord, I'm available after December for miniquests and quests. Feel free to PM me with requests. Dragons are my speciality it seems. :schemes:
Vathelokai 11-16-06, 07:30 PM	What are the plot lines that we have right now? Illveran, Demon Lord Lazarus, and Diamok Achos Denth The Drow The Githyanki Aptari and Habari (no quests on this yet, but soon...) Anything else? Off the top of my head: The Winds of Death & Ajj-Kofal. (KU plotline) Balbanes, Ajora, & Ajj-Kofal. (KU plotline) Mokriat, Mephistopheles, Ajj-Kofal, & Asran. (KU plotline) The Six Seers. (KU plotline tied w/ Asran and the Winds of Death ones) The Eater of Souls & The Six (KU plotline) Galladi. (TelinArtho plotline - cut short when he left for a while, characters previously involved have retired) Lady Cillansha the Blue Dragon. (TelinArtho/Waywreth plotline) Elerania (My own plotline for two of my characters - quests are a while in coming, but background is being laid by stories I'm writing for the writing contests when I get the time.) As you can see, KU has quite a number - most of them interconnected, I'm pretty sure. A pity hes only doing his campaigns and Asran's quests while in psuedo-retirement right now... Zevox TAO plotlines: The Magisters curse (combined work of Sindorin and Vathelokai) Nighshade released (Vath's) Devils want Gladius' Mythal (Vath's, with help from SauroGrenom and Caterane) Lord Shinmor's Daughter (Sindorin's) Githyanki and Devils working together (connected to KUs plotlines) Forgotten war against the Githyani (Tellish_of_Ket, also connected to KU) Usurpers at the University (also KU) Ordo Draconis (Waywreth, Macbrea, Vathelokai) That's not counting the personal plotlines, like Eraca, Rispa, Cali, Zodiac, etc.
Caterane 11-16-06, 08:50 PM	All those storylines... a pity the Gladius Weekly is inactive. Is there someone who would like to take the job? You'd gain 1° for each issue. I am sure with a bit of encouragement (you can give out up to 2° a week) you can get others to submit articles for the next issue.
MasterLucan 11-16-06, 08:56 PM	I've been making my first character...a monk...and I was wondering about a couple things. Does the Weapon Finesse Feat apply to my unarmed strikes? And if it does, when attempting to grapple, since I'm using my hands, do I use my dexterity mod instead of strength to see if I hit with the attempt? That's all I have for now. I'm just now getting used to 3.5 and I've never made a monk before, so I'm a little confused. Peace, Master Lucan
McJarvis 11-16-06, 08:57 PM	I've been making my first character...a monk...and I was wondering about a couple things. Does the Weapon Finesse Feat apply to my unarmed strikes? And if it does, when attempting to grapple, since I'm using my hands, do I use my dexterity mod instead of strength to see if I hit with the attempt? That's all I have for now. I'm just a little confused as to how I'm just now getting used to 3.5 and I've never made a monk before. Peace, Master Lucan Monks are pretty tough, or so goes the general sentiment. Weapon finesse will make your unarmed strikes work with dex...and your touch attacks.(which means the roll to start a grapple will be using dex mod for attack)
MindWandererB 11-16-06, 09:29 PM	Do you mean "tough to fight against" or "tough to play as?" I hope the latter, since that's what the sentiment is. 2 levels, for unarmored AC, Improved Grapple, and Deflect Arrows, is about the most I ever see.
DSugui 11-16-06, 09:38 PM	MasterLucan: Grapple checks use the Str mod, even if you have Weapon Finesse (which only affect attacks). I have been playing with the idea of making a githyank monk (Sleeping Tiger monk, more precisely). At low levels he seems ok, but he will be very weak at higher leagues, so I just drop it (for now...)
MasterLucan 11-16-06, 09:39 PM	Monks are pretty tough, or so goes the general sentiment. Weapon finesse will make your unarmed strikes work with dex...and your touch attacks.(which means the roll to start a grapple will be using dex mod for attack) Thanks for clearing that up McJarvis...:D Do you mean "tough to fight against" or "tough to play as?" I hope the latter, since that's what the sentiment is. 2 levels, for unarmored AC, Improved Grapple, and Deflect Arrows, is about the most I ever see. That's the problem that I'm facing. The monk isn't a real great 1 on 1 character, so I've been trying to think of creative ways to improve them. For the race I was considering Tiefling. Any suggestions people?
MasterLucan 11-16-06, 09:42 PM	MasterLucan: Grapple checks use the Str mod, even if you have Weapon Finesse (which only affect attacks). I have been playing with the idea of making a githyank monk (Sleeping Tiger monk, more precisely). At low levels he seems ok, but he will be very weak at higher leagues, so I just drop it (for now...) But what about the initial touch attack to grab the opponent? Not the grapple check to hold them, I realize that this is opposed strength checks.
Vathelokai 11-16-06, 10:03 PM	But what about the initial touch attack to grab the opponent? Not the grapple check to hold them, I realize that this is opposed strength checks.The touch is effected, but grapple checks are not. For example your super dex, 10 str monk grabs an opponent. They get a +super to touch them. After touching them they have to make opposed grapple checks to maintain the grapple. Your monk now has to beat a str check with no real str modifier to keep the grapple going and damage the opponent.
TheMagister 11-16-06, 10:10 PM	I'm doing something new (or at least different) with Rubicanti, my Elan Monk. Come 5th level, I'm changing his alignment to Chaotic and taking him into the Pyrokineticist prestige class. If it works out like I think it will, that'll be flurries for some serious fire damage, a "free" 5d6 ranged fire ray, and some other cool abilities. His final build is Monk 3/Psywar 2/Pyro 5. He'll be interesting, if nothing else. It'll take a custom blackmarket magic item, but I'm going to find a way to make his energy damage type flexible so that a cleric can't just shut me down with resist energy. As far as a straight monk as a 1v1 combatant: they just don't really hold up (even the half-giant grapple specialists peter out at mid levels). I haven't figured out a way to make them effective, yet. TM
McJarvis 11-16-06, 10:16 PM	The famed Monk Archer isn't that bad of a concept. Uber AC'r Gith+Monk. *shrug* edit- Cool idea TM. Like a Diet-Sacred Fist. Shame his BAB is lacking a bit.. :(
Gonbow 11-16-06, 10:40 PM	Interesting how coincidences flow, even in a small community. I've been brainstorming all day about how to make a Pyrokineticist work; mostly I was looking at a Sahuagin Mutant since the alignment change for a monk costs alot of credits.
Zevox 11-16-06, 10:43 PM	*shrugs* My Monk Indrithia has seemed okay thus far. Shes no powerhouse, but at level 5 (a level which sucks for Monks, btw) shes managed to break even on wins/losses without grappling (hate that mechanic, so I won't use it). Ultimately she'll be a Monk 6/Psionic Fist 10/War Mind 4, and I imagine she'll get a lot better with psionics in her pocket (dissipating/dissolving touch + monk unarmed strikes + greater psionic weapon + monk's belt = big damage alpha strike damage). Hp is always going to be a problem for her though, which sucks, but thats what high AC and saves are for I suppose (and vigor). Zevox
McJarvis 11-16-06, 10:52 PM	I imagine she'll get a lot better with psionics in her pocket She could use Expansion to get some massive grapple checks :D ;)
Zevox 11-16-06, 10:56 PM	She could use Expansion to get some massive grapple checks :D ;) Oh, she'll use that too, but to get even more massive unarmed damage ;) . Zevox
NiQil 11-16-06, 11:26 PM	The problem with grappling monks in this setting is that they do not have full attack progression. What you gain with Improved Grapple, you lose in level progression. A straight fighter can equal your grapple check, and exceed it if they also have IG. If I were going to build a grapple build, it would probably be a half-giant fighter grappling with enchanted armor spikes for damage. Plenty of feats to add psionic stuff and still be able to add other things to bump your damage output, and if you are in full plate, in most cases you will have a higher AC than the monk outside of a grapple. The only problem area is movement speed, at least at first glance (and saves, of course, but this is always a problem for a fighter). But with a half giant with IG, you are getting the grapple bonus from Powerful Build, the grapple bonus from IG, and 19 levels of base attack bonus. A half giant monk, on the other hand, gets the same bonus from Powerful Build and IG, but only gets 14 points of bab over a 20 level progression. Being able to flurry for the extra attacks helps offset this somewhat, but not enough to make them more effective. At least, that's my two electrum pieces.
TheMagister 11-16-06, 11:49 PM	Cool idea TM. Like a Diet-Sacred Fist. But with FIRE! Everything is better with FIRE! Shame his BAB is lacking a bit.. :( Well, that's what Offensive Precognition and Weapon focus are for. As a monk, you're just always gonna have a hard time hitting the high ACs because of the medium BAB progression. The way I figure it: Straight Monk 10: +7 BAB + WF = +8 to hit Monk 3/Psywar2/Pyro 5: (2+1+3) +6 BAB + 1 Off. Precog + WF = +8 to hit. I break even. Also, there are the additional feat slots (still not sure what I'm gonna do with it...I'm thinking Speed of Thought or Psionic Talent; I'm not decided. Also, there's access to all the powerstones (Skate in particular, though Strength of my Enemy looks particularly interesting). Mostly though, this build will become highly effective (I hope) when the Hand Afire, Weapon Afire, and Nimbus class features all come together. A monk's unarmed strikes are weapons, remember. And a character can always choose to deliver a touch attack as a melee attack. So: Prebuff: Activate hand afire (unarmed strike). Prebuff: Activate weapon afire (unarmed strike). R1: Activate Nimbus (unarmed strike) (lasts 50 rounds). Seek out. Swift action: Manifest Hammer (swift action, make melee touch that deals 1d8 dmg, lasts 1 addl. round per extra pp). Make a stunning attack (DC whatever...something in the low 20s) that deals 1d6(unarmed)+2d6(hand afire)+2d6(weapon afire)+2d6(nimbus)+1d8(hammer). 1d6+6d6(fire)+1d8 and save vs. stun. If you fail the save, I flurry next round. If you have a high AC, I make touch attacks for 2d6(weapon afire)+2d6(nimbus)+1d8(hammer). Still not bad. Note: Weapon Afire simply says that the weapon deals the extra damage on a successful hit. It doesn't say what kind of hit that has to be, so it applies to melee touch attacks that are made with that weapon. All in all, it's a gimmick concept. I know that. But it's a cool (hot?) one. Taken up to level 20? Man, that would get interesting... TM
MasterLucan 11-17-06, 05:33 AM	Can the shards out of psionics be used for crafting skills? I was perusing the SRD and was just curious. ~Master Lucan P.S.: How do you link posts and other websites in your entries?
TheMagister 11-17-06, 05:46 AM	Can the shards out of psionics be used for crafting skills? I was perusing the SRD and was just curious. ~Master Lucan P.S.: How do you link posts and other websites in your entries? As for the shard/crafting question: I'm sure they could be, but I fail to see the gain in it. To link posts and sites, you use the vB code. Hit quote to see how I do it: This is Order of the Stick (http://www.giantitp.com) This is Monsieur Hood one of my characters. You get the post number (in this case #8785897) by dragging your mouse pointer over the number in the upper right-hand corner of the post that you want to link to. Right click and "Copy Shortcut": http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8785897#post8785897 And then delete everything but the number that comes after "post". Stick it in [ post=] [ /post] brackets (without the spaces), and you're all set. TM
Caterane 11-17-06, 06:02 AM	The Ask an Elder thread needs to be replaced because it's too big. I'd like to give the new thread a better in-game name; something with "of Gladius". Any ideas? And no one interested in taking over the Gladius Weekly?
Abyssal Stalker 11-17-06, 07:48 AM	The Court of Gladius Or did we have it already? I'm interested in the Weekly, but I have to consider how much time I could spare. I would be at least interested in helping with it.
Zelck 11-17-06, 07:50 AM	I'm interested in the Weekly, but I have to consider how much time I could spare. I would be at least interested in helping with it. I'm in the same boat. Some weeks I'd have plenty of time to get it up, but other weeks I'm really busy. It'd end up being the Gladius Randomly ;).
Vathelokai 11-17-06, 08:19 AM	Can the shards out of psionics be used for crafting skills? I was perusing the SRD and was just curious. ~Master Lucan P.S.: How do you link posts and other websites in your entries? If you don't mind reading lists of stuff... If you would like to learn more about color, size, etc. look here (http://boards1.wizards.com/misc.php?do=bbcode) and here.The second one you have to scroll half way down before you get to the tutorial; the first half is an intro the Wizards.com in general. As for shards; check the durration on those shards.
McJarvis 11-17-06, 09:57 AM	Hey everyone! Morphius and Neo are fighting! Cat is spending credits! :D
Caterane 11-17-06, 11:18 AM	@McJarvis : LOL Check this out: Currently Active Users: 32 (10 members & 22 guests) New record.
MindWandererB 11-17-06, 01:29 PM	The Ask an Elder thread needs to be replaced because it's too big. I'd like to give the new thread a better in-game name; something with "of Gladius". Any ideas?How about the "Oracle of Gladius?" Sort of asking questions of the powers that be. And no, I don't have a god complex (Cat shoots me down far too often for that). Prebuff: Activate hand afire (unarmed strike). Prebuff: Activate weapon afire (unarmed strike).I cry foul on this one. Hand Afire and Weapon Afire are clearly meant to apply to different things. It's like using Psionic Fist and Psionic Weapon on a monk's strike at the same time, which is disallowed (per FAQ) because it's basically the same thing. Also, be carefu here: Pyros must be Chaotic, Monks must be lawful. This'll cost you 10 credits for an alignment change (unless you start off as a Chaotic Ex-Monk 3).
UserNamer 11-17-06, 01:36 PM	hello, I had a question about Prescience, Offensive, it gives +2 on damage, insight, does it also give damage for spells? and if not, why?
Gonbow 11-17-06, 01:47 PM	I cry foul on this one. Hand Afire and Weapon Afire are clearly meant to apply to different things. It's like using Psionic Fist and Psionic Weapon on a monk's strike at the same time, which is disallowed (per FAQ) because it's basically the same thing. Also, be carefu here: Pyros must be Chaotic, Monks must be lawful. This'll cost you 10 credits for an alignment change (unless you start off as a Chaotic Ex-Monk 3). Yeah, the same thing occured to me; I didn't mention it because I was so sleepy last night...but you cant apply the same effect to the same thing twice; because it won't stack! Ha-ha! Hand Afire and Weapon Afire give a named damage bonus, 'Fire' to certain things. 'Fire' isn't in the big list of boni that stacks with itself, so you'll only get one usage! Okay, that was hogwash, but it sounded nifty. But yeah, it comes down to common sense. No DM is going to let you use both of those on a monk attack, even if monk attacks are 'special'. No dice.
DSugui 11-17-06, 01:54 PM	hello, I had a question about Prescience, Offensive, it gives +2 on damage, insight, does it also give damage for spells? and if not, why?By RAW, yes, the bonus applies to any damage roll. I don't what's the ruling here, tough.
Zevox 11-17-06, 01:57 PM	Hey everyone! Morphius and Neo are fighting! Cat is spending credits! :D What!? Is the universe falling apart now? "Cat doesn't spend credits" is right up there with "the sky is blue", "the grass is green", and "the Detroit Tigers suck" as universal constants go. Hm, wait a second... ;) How about the "Oracle of Gladius?" Sort of asking questions of the powers that be. And no, I don't have a god complex (Cat shoots me down far too often for that). Hm... does Cat have a god complex maybe? *looks at his characters* Archangel Ixenthor, Archangel Hadriel, Demon Lord Lazarus, The Harvester... nah, no support for that theory there :P . (So, should I stop teasing the GM now? :) ) Zevox
Abyssal Stalker 11-17-06, 02:08 PM	No, by all means keep up the good work. *Goes check the next week pairings* Ah, there it is. Archdevil Asran (Zevox) vs Tarrasque: Caterane . Hmm, I guess it's an EL10 monster...
TelinArtho 11-17-06, 02:29 PM	Okay - so now that I have my nifty prizewinner icon over there, I get to pick my custom avatar... now I just don't know what to use. I'm currently looking for a decent image that renders well in an 80x80 pixel format that contains a dwarf warrior and a blue dragon (for obvious reasons). I'm not opposed to having someone make it for me - but I don't have much for funds to pay for it - so it would have to be a gift... If anyone has such an image or would be willing to create one - let me know.
MindWandererB 11-17-06, 02:58 PM	Okay - so now that I have my nifty prizewinner icon over there, I get to pick my custom avatar... now I just don't know what to use. I'm currently looking for a decent image that renders well in an 80x80 pixel format that contains a dwarf warrior and a blue dragon (for obvious reasons). I'm not opposed to having someone make it for me - but I don't have much for funds to pay for it - so it would have to be a gift... If anyone has such an image or would be willing to create one - let me know. Does it actually have to be 80x80, or just look good scaled to that size? I have one image that I can crop and resize. Alternatively, I'm pretty decent with Paint Shop; if you have or can find an image of a dwarf and of a blue dragon that you like, I can put them together in the same image. (I have a few blue dragons myself, but few dwarves.) Here's the one I have: http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e61/MindWandererB/TelinTry1.gif
TelinArtho 11-17-06, 03:06 PM	Not bad at all - is that something in the public domain? I don't want to be infringing on someone's copyright and all... If you want to create something - I would be more than willing to see what you can come up with. I'm a moderator on another forum (non-D&D related) and I'm seeing if any of the members there can come up with something I would want to use. Nothing fruitful has emerged yet though. EDIT - and post the other blues if you can (or just link them in a PM if you like). I'm not heart-set on the dwarf necessarily - but the blue dragon does have a special place in my heart...
MindWandererB 11-17-06, 03:39 PM	That one's a sample of something that's been floating around the internet since there was an internet. Of course, there are a lot of copyright-infringing avatars anyway (most of them, in fact). The other two blue dragons I have are here: http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e61/MindWandererB/DragonsofWinterNight.jpg http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e61/MindWandererB/BattleAmongtheClouds.jpg And of course, they can easily be cropped, and somewhat less easily spliced and photoshopped to get a dwarf in there somewhere--for instance, the "Clouds" one could be aiming its breath weapon at a defiant Bruenor Battlehammer without tremendous difficulty (although Bruenor might be floating in mid-air...). Note that the smaller ones may be a good bet because they will shrink cleanly.
Abyssal Stalker 11-17-06, 03:56 PM	Here's some blues. Or at least close to blue. http://www.aumania.it/fa/parkinson/065.jpg http://www.aumania.it/fa/parkinson/047.jpg http://www.aumania.it/fa/easley/032.jpg http://www.aumania.it/fa/easley/009.jpg Edit: and more: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG72.jpg http://images.epilogue.net/users/bcorbett67/dragon_blue2.jpg http://www.jadesite.com/Imagegalle/kbluedragon.jpg http://www.picturescloset.com/gallery2/d/19946-1/Blue-Dragon-Skyler4_V2.jpg http://www.linkmesh.com/images/Dragons/37.jpg http://www.mysticrpg.net/modules/Races/images/bluedragon.jpg http://www.dharmarose.com/graphics/goods/treefree/dragons/xl_TF52001.jpg http://www.clydecaldwell.com/jpgs/large_images/dragon_steed.jpg Edit 2: even more: http://dragonbluespoetry.com/WebSets/Graphics/dragonShaddar1.2.gif http://www.the-wild-flower-trilogy.com/images/dragon_blue211111.gif
TelinArtho 11-17-06, 05:33 PM	The wonders of image merging with the help of a user from another forum... My avatar is born.
McJarvis 11-17-06, 07:36 PM	Nice Telin. The Illustrated Man (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10257111&postcount=949) is now finished, and I'd like someone to proof read him before he runs next week. He only uses two UA variants :) edit-> I always get really nervous before playing a new character for the first time. It is much like the feeling I get before picking a girl up before a first date...is that weird or what? :-)
MindWandererB 11-17-06, 07:46 PM	Advice wanted! I'm playing around with the idea I suggested earlier, as a sort of a replacement for the ultimately-disappointing Sunstroke. Here's my notion so far: Barbarian 1/[Sorcerer or Bard] 1/Orc Paragon 3/Dragon Disciple from then on. So my big debate is sorcerer vs. bard. Advantages of the bard: ignore arcane spell failure in armor up to mithral breastplate; Inspire Courage 1/day; CLW on class list, allowing wand use. Also whip proficiency, which would be fun as I'm considering Improved Trip. Advantages of the sorcerer: more spell options, including shield, magic missile, true strike, ray of enfeeblement, enlarge person, reduce person. Also, the Dragon Disciple grants bonus spells, and I'd much rather have some extra True Strikes or Rays of Enfeeblement than 10 Mendings or Resistances per day. The sorc spells are a big draw, but so's the ability to ignore ASF, and thus get better armor with something like Quickness on it. I suppose I could eat a 10% ASF, but I'd rather not. Any thoughts about things I'm failing to consider? Opinions? @McJarvis: Just take a look at your pricing for scrolls of Shield. Otherwise, looks good to me. We'll see how that Intimidate works out for you.
McJarvis 11-17-06, 07:47 PM	The Battle Sorcerer is an amazing choice for those wishing to concentrate more on combat than spellcasting. ;) Though granted 20 creds is alot to spend on a built...(who does that? sheesh.) Regardless: for your purposes it is probably your best choice. d8 hit die+ignore ASF and the sorc spell list= win. Tons of extra Enlarge Persons are MUCH preferable to mendings...
MindWandererB 11-17-06, 08:08 PM	That's a good point. Although this line confuses me: "A battle sorcerer can cast sorcerer spells derived from her class levels of battle sorcerer while in light armor without the normal arcane spell failure chance." I assume this means that a wizard/battle sorc can't ignore ASF for their wizard spells. But what about spells cast from scrolls? I'd be doing that a lot. I think the intention is that scrolls would also be safe, but that's not quite what it says.
Zevox 11-17-06, 08:22 PM	Personally, I'd either go with Battle Sorcerer or Sorcerer - Bard for just one level isn't worth it (what good is the lack of an ASF if all you can cast is cantrips?). Battle Sorcerer if you plain can't bring yourself to take a 10% ASF. Sorcerer if you can, and make one of your known spells True Strike (no ASF for no somatic components). Or you could do a Sorcerer that buffs with Mage Armor all the time (custom wand of mage armor maybe?). Zevox
MindWandererB 11-17-06, 08:37 PM	The lack of ASF is good for scrolls. Bards get Invisibilty, See Invisibility, Mirror Image, Expeditious Retreat, Alter Self, and Blur which a level 1 Bard could cast off a wizard-scribed scroll. Those are all insanely useful. And a wand of Mage Armor wouldn't be worth it, compared to scrolls, unless you used it for more than 30 fights.
NiQil 11-17-06, 09:21 PM	The lack of ASF is good for scrolls. Bards get Invisibilty, See Invisibility, Mirror Image, Expeditious Retreat, Alter Self, and Blur which a level 1 Bard could cast off a wizard-scribed scroll. Those are all insanely useful. And a wand of Mage Armor wouldn't be worth it, compared to scrolls, unless you used it for more than 30 fights. Another thing to consider in the bard/sorcerer decision is when you plan on taking the level. If you take it as your first level, all those skill points you get from a bard would be really useful compared to what a sorcerer gets. If you plan on taking another class as your first level, then the point is somewhat moot. Another small point is that dragon disciple requires the ability to speak draconic....bard gets speak language so that might free up the racial choice someone if you can always burn 2 skill points to pick up draconic. Otherwise if you go sorcerer, then you have to have a race that has draconic as a language option.
MindWandererB 11-17-06, 09:32 PM	Another thing to consider in the bard/sorcerer decision is when you plan on taking the level. If you take it as your first level, all those skill points you get from a bard would be really useful compared to what a sorcerer gets. If you plan on taking another class as your first level, then the point is somewhat moot. Another small point is that dragon disciple requires the ability to speak draconic....bard gets speak language so that might free up the racial choice someone if you can always burn 2 skill points to pick up draconic. Otherwise if you go sorcerer, then you have to have a race that has draconic as a language option.Well, you don't have to choose a race with Draconic as a bonus language; you just have to spend 2 skill points on it. Going with Bard only saves you 1 skill point. Barbarian will definitely be the first level. An extra 6 HP are definitely worth it, even if it means I have to buy Speak Language and a few ranks of Knowledge (arcana) cross-class. It's not like those barbarian skill ranks are good for much else anyway, once you've bought Listen and Spot, and maybe Craft.
Guildmaster (TLT) 11-18-06, 12:52 AM	TLT and TAO still need a questlord for the adventure of Denshi and Loddick. We have only one outstanding plotline, which Sauro started just a little while ago, so if he's not interested in continuing that, pretty much anything goes. Any takers?
SauroGrenom 11-18-06, 08:50 AM	I was thinking that little plot line could be attached to the guilds event, when we are ready for that.
Hirumajoe 11-18-06, 12:03 PM	So I was reading some fights and noticed on one character's sheet: Ammunition: (in Quiver of Ehlonna) Note: An object 1 size smaller has 1/8 the volume; an object 2 sizes smaller has 1/64 the volume. Thus, the javelin compartment can hold up to 144 arrows, and the lance compartment can hold up to 216 arrows. 60 Arrows (Main Compartment) [- lbs][$3 gp] 140 Arrows (Javelin Compartment) [- lbs][$7 gp] 200 Cold Iron Arrows (Lance Compartment) [- lbs][$40 gp] Is this true? Can I fill the Javelin Compartment with 144 Arrows? And split my lance compartment between spare bows and even more arrows? If so Valen Sky is going to be doing some free arrow crafting next fight. He currently only has 18 arrows in the Javelin compartment.
hogarth 11-18-06, 12:08 PM	That seems like a dubious interpretation to me. I mean, if we're using "common sense" (and I use that term loosely) to determine how the Quiver is used, then wouldn't the character have to reach way, way down into that 4' (?) deep bow compartment if he's trying to draw an arrow out of it? So I was reading some fights and noticed on one character's sheet: Ammunition: (in Quiver of Ehlonna) Note: An object 1 size smaller has 1/8 the volume; an object 2 sizes smaller has 1/64 the volume. Thus, the javelin compartment can hold up to 144 arrows, and the lance compartment can hold up to 216 arrows. 60 Arrows (Main Compartment) [- lbs][$3 gp] 140 Arrows (Javelin Compartment) [- lbs][$7 gp] 200 Cold Iron Arrows (Lance Compartment) [- lbs][$40 gp] Is this true? Can I fill the Javelin Compartment with 144 Arrows? And split my lance compartment between spare bows and even more arrows? If so Valen Sky is going to be doing some free arrow crafting next fight. He currently only has 18 arrows in the Javelin compartment.
Zelck 11-18-06, 01:23 PM	That seems like a dubious interpretation to me. I mean, if we're using "common sense" (and I use that term loosely) to determine how the Quiver is used, then wouldn't the character have to reach way, way down into that 4' (?) deep bow compartment if he's trying to draw an arrow out of it? That looks familiar... ;). I actually saw another character doing it, and what he did was bundle and wrap those arrows together so they were in the shape of a lance/javelin. I wanted to do basically the same thing.
Hirumajoe 11-18-06, 01:24 PM	That seems like a dubious interpretation to me. I mean, if we're using "common sense" (and I use that term loosely) to determine how the Quiver is used, then wouldn't the character have to reach way, way down into that 4' (?) deep bow compartment if he's trying to draw an arrow out of it? Well here's the relavent SRD: Efficient Quiver This appears to be a typical arrow container capable of holding about twenty arrows. It has three distinct portions, each with a nondimensional space allowing it to store far more than would normally be possible. The first and smallest one can contain up to sixty objects of the same general size and shape as an arrow. The second slightly longer compartment holds up to eighteen objects of the same general size and shape as a javelin. The third and longest portion of the case contains as many as six objects of the same general size and shape as a bow (spears, staffs, or the like). Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can produce any item she wishes, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard. The efficient quiver weighs the same no matter what’s placed inside it. It does say that the quiver can produce any item wishes, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard. Mayhaps I should take this question over to the Ask an Elder brand new Oracle of Gladius thread. Once its open anyways.
MindWandererB 11-18-06, 03:00 PM	I'm of the opinion that magic items should be interpreted literally. The longest portion holds spear-shaped objects only. You can't put an object of any other size or shape in there at all. You can't even fill it with dirt.
McJarvis 11-18-06, 03:02 PM	You can't even fill it with dirt. Unless that dirt were dried & hardened in the shape of a spear. Then if it crumbled while in the bag or got wet it would just got *pop* and vanish. :-)
MindWandererB 11-18-06, 03:04 PM	Unless that dirt were dried & hardened in the shape of a spear. Then if it crumbled while in the bag or got wet it would just got *pop* and vanish. :-)Or the quiver suddenly vomits the dirt all over you in a big dirt geyser.
McJarvis 11-18-06, 03:18 PM	*blinks* One of my friends just made a blog post about a date she just had... "We got all fancied up and he took me to AppleBees! Mmmm! Salmon! It was nice to have a real fancy dinner! " I had no idea Talladega Nights was making fun of my friends :(. Couldn't post this anywhere else without hurting her feelings, and just had to say it ;)
Vathelokai 11-18-06, 03:33 PM	*blinks* One of my friends just made a blog post about a date she just had... "We got all fancied up and he took me to AppleBees! Mmmm! Salmon! It was nice to have a real fancy dinner! " I had no idea Talladega Nights was making fun of my friends :(. Couldn't post this anywhere else without hurting her feelings, and just had to say it ;) Well, I find that women tend to think a lot more of where they are eating if they enjoy themselves, or who they are with. I bet if the date was crappy she would have hated the salmon. ;)
UserNamer 11-18-06, 03:40 PM	the oracle is nice
Hirumajoe 11-18-06, 06:11 PM	I'm of the opinion that magic items should be interpreted literally. The longest portion holds spear-shaped objects only. You can't put an object of any other size or shape in there at all. You can't even fill it with dirt. Just to play devil's advocate... I'd point out that an arrow is a spear shaped object to a tiny creature. I freely admit arrows aren't spears, but you have to admit they're long with a point at the end like a spear. If I have my psi-crystal fill it with arrows, does that count? But seriously, if that's the case, I'll remove the 18 arrows I placed in the javelin portion the next time I can edit Valen.
MindWandererB 11-18-06, 06:19 PM	Just to play devil's advocate... I'd point out that an arrow is a spear shaped object to a tiny creature. I freely admit arrows aren't spears, but you have to admit they're long with a point at the end like a spear. If I have my psi-crystal fill it with arrows, does that count? Only if your psicrystal was wearing the quiver. IMO.
TARDIS 11-19-06, 03:29 AM	This is just a notice to all my fellow CoCoers that I am not quitting, but I am going to be away for a while. Flaeli is finished with her 3fC so it won't really be hard to come back in, but as of yet I do not have reliable enough access to the web to participate in CoCo. Hopefully this will only be a short leave of absence--- despite my apalling record I think the CoCo can be a really fun place, so please don't delete my character!
SauroGrenom 11-19-06, 11:18 AM	This is just a notice to all my fellow CoCoers that I am not quitting, but I am going to be away for a while. Flaeli is finished with her 3fC so it won't really be hard to come back in, but as of yet I do not have reliable enough access to the web to participate in CoCo. Hopefully this will only be a short leave of absence--- despite my apalling record I think the CoCo can be a really fun place, so please don't delete my character! Your character won't be deleated, but you may eventually fall off the character roster in the character's thread. If that happens, just send a PM to Pitlords, and you will be put back on the roster.
Abyssal Stalker 11-19-06, 12:42 PM	What software do people use creating the maps? At least King Uther uses a nice-looking tool for those. Where can I get it? Are there any other decent mapmakers? I'm looking for free software. It doesn't need to be too fancy, just for simple visualisation on quests.
Vathelokai 11-19-06, 02:02 PM	I use dungeon crafter. Cat uses Dundjini. KU uses a different one, but I don't remember the name; autorelm maybe? I know dungeon crafter is not actively making stuff anymore, but you can track it down; you have to download a large chunk of tiles for it unless you want basic dungeons and cities (which come built in). It saves to BMP, then you have to open it in Paint or something and resave in JPG.
Vathelokai 11-19-06, 05:55 PM	Question about quest rewards In 'Gauterix' Gaston, Raskos, and Raskos' ally defeated 3 el 12 encounters. Does Does the ally effect the whole team's rewards, or just Raskos?
MindWandererB 11-19-06, 06:01 PM	Just Raskos, if it's not a class ally and it survived the first two fights. Although looking at his sheet, I see no ally prebuffed....
SauroGrenom 11-19-06, 07:18 PM	Vath, All the characters in the quest are frozen anyway. I don't think that we recieve rewards.
Vathelokai 11-19-06, 08:52 PM	Vath, All the characters in the quest are frozen anyway. I don't think that we recieve rewards. oh yeah....:rolleyes:
MindWandererB 11-19-06, 09:05 PM	I just skimmed the quest and put in the attitude change. For future reference, you can't overchannel a psi-like ability.
SauroGrenom 11-19-06, 09:34 PM	I just skimmed the quest and put in the attitude change. For future reference, you can't overchannel a psi-like ability. This was something I asked about a while back, and I was told that it was allowed. I don't recall who I asked, and where I was told that, but I'm sure of it. I asked before I put that little tid-bit into the character sheet.
SauroGrenom 11-19-06, 09:46 PM	My original question. Reply from Telin, not an elder at the time. My reply to Telin's comment. DSugui's comment. DSugui's reply to a question from TM. My last post on the subject. It's a good point that overchannel is not metapsionic. Metapsionic feats clearly only apply to powers manifest in the normal way using pp and not to psi-like abilities. But I think that overchannel and feats like power penetration and psionic endowment crossover into the realm of psi-like abilities seamlessly.
Gonbow 11-19-06, 09:50 PM	Thought I probably should have waited a bit to get the #999 spot or #1000 spot, I just made a new character and would like for him to get a brief glance over before he goes active this week: Ashyertian (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10687270&postcount=996) He's got game against grapplers, trippers, deflect arrow freaks and is pretty juicy against non-will save spells; even there he's got a +4, going to a +5 as soon as I can afford a Cloak of Resistance. A strickly stronger melee combatant is likely to be his only problem at low ECLs, which is where the hide and sniping ability comes in, yes? But in the end, he'll be a Pyrokineticist. Yes, you heard me BURN BABY BURN! Mweeeheeeheee. Should be able to take lvl 1 Pyro at level 6 after two more levels of Ranger if I want the animal companion (A horse most likely, to get the maneuverability thing), or 1 fighter/barb and 1 ranger if I don't/want to avoid the multiclass xp 'penalty'. Lvl 6 feat will probably be Iron Will, unless someone has a better idea.
SauroGrenom 11-19-06, 09:57 PM	It actually looks like the characters thread may need to be replaced some time soon. I'm under the impression that we are limited to about 1000 posts/thread. Once we hit that amount, the board moderators want us to close the thread and post a new one.
SauroGrenom 11-19-06, 10:29 PM	I just noticed something... I'm the only guildmaster who has only one character in his guild. Now that Cat has two characters in CEF, PSI is the only guild where the guildmaster has only one character in the guild. There are some guilds where the guildmaster has 3 characters in the guild, and in the case of TLT, EHTC and TAO that comprises 1/3 or more (TAO) of the guild membership. I'm not sure what to make of it, but I thought that was an interesting trend that I should note. Another interesting detail is that Cat, Mc Jarvis and The Magister are the three guildmasters who have characters in no guild but their own. Also it's kind of interesting to note that CEF boasts the most participation by various CoCo Elders. And Zevox is by far the most prolific guildmaster. He has 8 guild characters spread across EHTC, WAR, PSI, LOY and TAO. Only CEF and TLT do not have one of his characters...Perhaps that's a telling detail (they are enemies of his own guild EHTC). Of the 5 elders, NiQil participates in no guild (by design I recall), Telin has characters in CEF and TLT, MWB has characters in TLT and LOY, Pittbull has characters in CEF only, and I have characters in PSI and WAR. I'm not trying to say anything. I just had a thought to look and see who has characters in what guilds, and I thought I'd share my observations.
MindWandererB 11-19-06, 10:32 PM	My original question. Reply from Telin, not an elder at the time. My reply to Telin's comment. DSugui's comment. DSugui's reply to a question from TM. My last post on the subject. It's a good point that overchannel is not metapsionic. Metapsionic feats clearly only apply to powers manifest in the normal way using pp and not to psi-like abilities. But I think that overchannel and feats like power penetration and psionic endowment crossover into the realm of psi-like abilities seamlessly. While it certainly doesn't present a mechanical problem, the feat does specifically say "while manifesting a power." It's a little cheesy to use it on psi-like abilities since, unlike powers, they're automatically augmented to the fullest. And yes... Cat should begin thinking about a plan for what to do with the thread. Transferring all the still-active characters may be a necessary evil. @Gonbow: Not sure how well that will work out for you (especially sniping with a Hide that low), although I like the image of flaming armor spikes. Note, however, that you will need Ranger 4, because you need a caster level to get Craft (alchemy), which is required for Pyro. There are soo many things I'd recommend over Iron Will. Speed of Thought would be a big help (even if you're mounted, that horse isn't going to scale along with you). You might qualify for Improved 2WF by then. There's Diehard, always useful. Or start on a path of more powerful feats. @Sauro: Speaking for myself, I come up with concepts first, and look at guilds second. I do have a slight bias toward my own... but Aerryl was the reason I got affiliated with TLT in the first place, and Kervan was a natural. Okay, Besthirah, I admit, was somewhat motivated by getting a covert-friendly build into TLT. But Sunstroke was in PSI and then EYE, Maya was designed partially with LOY in mind, and Silis will be joining TAO when his campaign is over. Sunstroke's replacement, the dragon disciple, will be joining either TAO or WAR, I haven't decided yet. And why haven't I joined the other guilds? Frankly... I just don't like them. I steer away from evil characters, and even when I do choose them, they're sort of "evil lite." PSI is close enough to evil that they give me funny feelings, which is why Sunstroke quit. And CEF, oddly, creeps me out in a similar way, with "holier than thou" taken to the Nth power.
Zevox 11-19-06, 11:10 PM	There are some guilds where the guildmaster has 3 characters in the guild, and in the case of TLT, EHTC and TAO that comprises 1/3 or more (TAO) of the guild membership. To be technical, since the EHTC has 11 characters, my 3 aren't quite 1/3 of the membership :P . Though if you're guessing that some of my characters exist entirely to support my Guild, you're right - most likely if I hadn't been given the position of Guildmaster, I'd never have made Annalina and Indrithia. Though I'd hope thats understandable to most, given that when I first inherited the Guild, my Asran was the only character who was actually active every week, and back then our income was based on taxes from characters. And Zevox is by far the most prolific guildmaster. He has 8 guild characters spread across EHTC, WAR, PSI, LOY and TAO. Only CEF and TLT do not have one of his characters...Perhaps that's a telling detail (they are enemies of his own guild EHTC). What can I say - I like to RP, and the Guilds provide for that :D . In point of fact, the only characters of mine who don't have a Guild are Destra Stormwind (I've been considering putting her in WAR for a long time, but for now I just can't come up with an acceptable enough RP reason) and Mindrel Starmaster (the UnCon guy - when I get around to activating him though he may join TAO, depending on whether I decide to RP him or make him my only arena-only character). I have that many characters in Guilds simply because I have so many characters (can't get that damn mind of mine to stop coming up with new RP and mechanical ideas, so a number of them inevitably slip through into the Coliseum proper rather than spending thier lives in Word documents on my laptop like most of them do ;) ) and its almost an automatic for me to have my characters join one. Oh, and about the lack of members in TLT and CEF, theres two different reasons for those. In the case of CEF, its partially because my old member there was retired (recall the Maenad Psychic Warrior/Paladin Sir Alboreth? He was retired because I realized he was going to become inneffective very fast, and because I couldn't find a way to continue with him that I liked without taking multiclassing penalties), partially because I think it'd be way too akward for Guildmaster (EHTC) to have a member in the CEF (especially now with the new Guild system), and partially because the proportion of "smite all evildoers" theme to "help those who need help" theme in there is favoring the former more than I prefer in Paladin/Clerical groups personally. In the case of TLT though its just me not liking the Guild theme. I've never been the type to care much about nature. Why do you think my Druid worships a god of destruction ;) (well, aside from the fact that its a damn fun RP concept to play)? Zevox
Vathelokai 11-19-06, 11:24 PM	Ummm, MWB; I think you just called Sauro NiQil... ;) ANyway, I was a 1 character in my own guild type of guy, until both of my characters got close to being frozen. Right now Auburn and Denshi are quest only, so I figured I'd bring in another arena wizard. Unfortunately all three of them havn't been doing much these days. As for other guilds; I come up with a character and then if they fit a guild they go there. Saffron was nosey, so she went to EYE, Hassan is obsesses with psionics, so he went to PSI. Characters like Tweak don't really fit, so they aren't in guilds. It just so happens that I like making wizards, so half of my characters would join TAO. Minderal and Silas have open invites to TAO, of course.
Gonbow 11-19-06, 11:28 PM	@MindwandererB Wait, you need a level of a caster to even take Craft: Alchemy? The errata that only casters can use it I'm aware of, but I thought that non-casters could still take the skill, just not get any 'benefit' from it. (Much like metamagic feats and such)
MindWandererB 11-19-06, 11:33 PM	@MindwandererB Wait, you need a level of a caster to even take Craft: Alchemy? The errata that only casters can use it I'm aware of, but I thought that non-casters could still take the skill, just not get any 'benefit' from it. (Much like metamagic feats and such)Hmm. A literal reading does support that interpretation. I suppose that's right, then. Ummm, MWB; I think you just called Sauro NiQil... ;) No I didn't! Pay no attention to the "Edited by" sign behind the curtain! :embarrass Plan on having Silis apply to TAO as soon as the campaign is over, which should be soon. He should be ECL 8 by then.
NiQil 11-19-06, 11:37 PM	Just make sure you apologize to Sauro....no one should be subject to the abuse of being referred to by my moniker. And I also support Gonbow's interpretation of Craft (Alchemy)....my new dwarven ranger Vaden Wick has ranks in it so that when he gains level 4 he can begin crafting alchemical items for his animal companion to drop on people LOL
SauroGrenom 11-19-06, 11:48 PM	LOL, No appologies necessary. Being accidentially called the guy who runs the second most powerfull organization in the board (prison) isn't an insult. And as I said before. My observations about guild membership aren't criticisms in any way. Just interesting things I noticed and decided to share. None of you need to justify or defend your decisions.
McJarvis 11-19-06, 11:52 PM	I just noticed something... I'm the only guildmaster who has only one character in his guild. To be fair to me, the only reason Poe is in LOY is to bolster our upper ECL characters. As far as other characters joining guilds-> I won't let any of my characters join guilds until they have proven themselves in some way.(Mort did a 3 win streak, Poe won UnCon) Expect The Illustrated Man to hit up WAR or TAO.
DSugui 11-19-06, 11:59 PM	Plan on having Silis apply to TAO as soon as the campaign is over, which should be soon. He should be ECL 8 by then.So it's better they start building another room. Dudael is gonna apply too.
MindWandererB 11-20-06, 12:06 AM	So it's better they start building another room. Dudael is gonna apply too. Well, they have two free slots at the moment. Unless there's another applicant on the way?
UserNamer 11-20-06, 06:04 AM	Could someone checkthis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10630456&postcount=985) guy for mistakes/errors.
Vathelokai 11-20-06, 08:02 AM	And as I said before. My observations about guild membership aren't criticisms in any way. Just interesting things I noticed and decided to share. None of you need to justify or defend your decisions.I had noticed it myself and felt like talking about it. It is an interesting trend, and seeing all the guildmasters chatting about it is kind of nice. Well, they (TAO) have two free slots at the moment. Unless there's another applicant on the way?Minderel, Silas, Unnammed DragonDisciple, Illustrated Man, Dudael... quite the influx. TAO will start building a room for you guys.
Zevox 11-20-06, 08:21 AM	Minderel, Silas, Unnammed DragonDisciple, Illustrated Man, Dudael... quite the influx. TAO will start building a room for you guys. Eh, just three there - I won't actually be activating Mindrel in the arena for a while, especially if the frozen leagues open soon. Too many characters. Besides, I haven't decided if I want to RP him yet. And McJarvis did say that Illustrated Man may be going to WAR, so you may want to make sure about that before building new rooms for this. Zevox
Vathelokai 11-20-06, 08:27 AM	Well, TAO does have some other things to do first; wasn't going to drop everything for new rooms really, just put it on the priority list. Seems like getting the super fancy ecl15 rooms just got pushed up the list a bit.
hogarth 11-20-06, 08:46 AM	While it certainly doesn't present a mechanical problem, the feat does specifically say "while manifesting a power." It's a little cheesy to use it on psi-like abilities since, unlike powers, they're automatically augmented to the fullest. I agree -- in the case of Overchannel "while manifesting a power" is not equivalent to "while using a psi-like/spell-like ability". That's like arguing that you should be able to use Quicken Spell-like Ability on spells; after all, what "ability" is more "spell-like" than spellcasting? ;)
TheMagister 11-20-06, 11:23 AM	I cry foul on this one. Hand Afire and Weapon Afire are clearly meant to apply to different things. It's like using Psionic Fist and Psionic Weapon on a monk's strike at the same time, which is disallowed (per FAQ) because it's basically the same thing. Also, be carefu here: Pyros must be Chaotic, Monks must be lawful. This'll cost you 10 credits for an alignment change (unless you start off as a Chaotic Ex-Monk 3). What? I cry foul on your cry foul! =) There is a HUGE difference between Psionic Fist/Psionic Weapon (which require the expenditure of multiple Foci to activate, and thus fall under the jurisdiction of the "you can't expend foci to power the same feat twice" ruling in the FAQ) and the stacking of energy damage onto a weapon (which falls under the "flaming + flaming longsword deals +2d6 fire damage per hit" ruling in the FAQ. I [i]know I remember seeing that somewhere in there; IIRC it had to do with a question that went something like this: Player: "Hey, Sage? My friend wants to make a +1 icy burst flaming burst shocking burst acid burst longsword. This is overpowered (if expensive). Can he do that? How can a weapon inflict both fire and ice damage? Won't they cancel each other out on a point-per-point basis?" Sage: "Hey, player! What he wants to do is totally legal (if expensive). A weapon that inflicts both ice and fire damage deals both damage types, and neither damage type affects the other. The blade is simply covered in "icy flames". Use your imagination, metagamer!" Next Question: Player: "Ok, so icy and flaming can be put on the same weapon and neither cancels each other out. But can you put two flaming enhancements on the same weapon?" Sage: "The Sage doesn't see why not. A flaming+flaming sword just deals more fire damage than a flaming sword. It's hotter or something. Use your imagination, metagamer!" (Okay, okay. So the "metagamer" comments weren't in there. But he was thinkin' 'em!) I don't have access to the FAQ at work, and my home internet is unavailable at the moment. Could you substantiate your "it don't work" stance, please? 'Cause if it don't, then Rubicanti don't, and he needs to find another line of work. ... Like in a monastery training those fighters and psychic warriors in 2 levels of monk. TM
hogarth 11-20-06, 11:32 AM	What? I cry foul on your cry foul! =) There is a HUGE difference between Psionic Fist/Psionic Weapon (which require the expenditure of multiple Foci to activate, and thus fall under the jurisdiction of the "you can't expend foci to power the same feat twice" ruling in the FAQ) and the stacking of energy damage onto a weapon (which [IMO] falls under the "flaming + flaming longsword deals +2d6 fire damage per hit" ruling in the FAQ. Personally my objection would be with the wording of "Weapon Afire": Flames that harm neither her nor the weapon engulf one weapon she holds [..] Unless you ripped someone's arm off and you're using it as a club, an unarmed strike isn't a weapon you hold.
TheMagister 11-20-06, 11:47 AM	Personally my objection would be with the wording of "Weapon Afire": Unless you ripped someone's arm off and you're using it as a club, an unarmed strike isn't a weapon you hold. So a monk couldn't hold one fist in the other for the purpose of "targeting" the ability? Weapons so "enchanted" retain the flaming property even after they leave the hand of the pyro (ala crossbow bolts and arrows and thrown weapons), so what I say makes sense.
hogarth 11-20-06, 12:02 PM	So a monk couldn't hold one fist in the other for the purpose of "targeting" the ability? Weapons so "enchanted" retain the flaming property even after they leave the hand of the pyro (ala crossbow bolts and arrows and thrown weapons), so what I say makes sense. It's just a matter of how nitpicky you want to be. I maintain that a monk's unarmed strike can be affected by powers/spells/effects with a Target of "1 weapon", but not "1 held weapon". Other people might not draw that distinction, of course. By the way, if a monk's strike counts as "1 held weapon", I would recommend prebuffing your character with Dissolving Weapon and Dissolving Touch as well. An extra 8d6 damage couldn't hurt! ;)
McJarvis 11-20-06, 01:00 PM	Eh, just three there - I won't actually be activating Mindrel in the arena for a while, especially if the frozen leagues open soon. Too many characters. Besides, I haven't decided if I want to RP him yet. And McJarvis did say that Illustrated Man may be going to WAR, so you may want to make sure about that before building new rooms for this. Zevox I haven't fully decided-> but regardless, T.I.M. needs to do a 3FC before I decide I even want to continue to level him. I won't invest alot of time in a character concept I'm not having fun with. Then again, if TAO doesn't have space for him, that could just be the deciding factor that sends him to WAR ;)
MindWandererB 11-20-06, 08:56 PM	Personally my objection would be with the wording of "Weapon Afire": Unless you ripped someone's arm off and you're using it as a club, an unarmed strike isn't a weapon you hold.This isn't my argument, for what it's worth. A monk's unarmed strikes count as manufactured weapons wielded by the character for all purposes. You may not actually "hold" it, but you're wielding it yourself. This language is to prevent using it on someone else's weapon. @Magister: I remember the argument in question. Let me put it to you this way: could you spend 10 rounds activating Hand Afire to deal +20d6 damage per attack? Of course not. Since Hand Afire and Weapon Afire are basically the same ability that just works on a different kind of target, they don't stack. In other news: Questlord still wanted for Loddick and Denshi's adventure! I really don't have time to run this myself. I will if it's that or the quest doesn't happen, but please don't make me.
McJarvis 11-20-06, 09:01 PM	This isn't my argument, for what it's worth. A monk's unarmed strikes count as manufactured weapons wielded by the character for all purposes. I haven't really been paying attention to the arguement- but where does it say in the rules that a monk's unarmed strike counts as a "manufactured weapon weilded by the character"?
MindWandererB 11-20-06, 09:15 PM	I haven't really been paying attention to the arguement- but where does it say in the rules that a monk's unarmed strike counts as a "manufactured weapon weilded by the character"? Okay, it doesn't, per se... but are you arguing that a monk doesn't wield his own unarmed strikes?
McJarvis 11-20-06, 09:18 PM	Okay, it doesn't, per se... but are you arguing that a monk doesn't wield his own unarmed strikes? *shrug*. I was just wondering if it said that somewhere. :-)
NiQil 11-20-06, 09:28 PM	Let's look at the features in question... Hand Afire (Ps): A pyrokineticist of 2nd level or higher can activate this ability as a move-equivalent action. Flames engulf one of the pyrokineticist’s hands (but do her no harm). Her unarmed attacks with that hand are treated as armed. Such attacks deal an extra 2d6 points of fire damage. Weapon Afire (Ps): At 4th level and higher, a pyrokineticist can activate this ability as a move-equivalent action. Flames that harm neither her nor the weapon engulf one weapon she holds (which can be a projectile such as a stone, bullet, arrow, or bolt). The weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of fire damage on a successful hit. The weapon retains this effect for as long as the pyrokineticist wields it. Hand Afire is specifically listed as applying to unarmed strikes. Weapon Afire specifically states that it only applies to a weapon held. Unarmed strikes are not held weapons. Therefore Weapon Afire would not apply to unarmed strikes. The argument that since Weapon Afire applies to projectile launchers, it is being used on something that is not being held does not hold any water, in my opinion, due to the fact that it starts as a held weapon, and the power states that the projectile will retain the effect once applied. This has no bearing on whether it would apply to unarmed strikes, because unarmed strikes are not held weapons.
hogarth 11-20-06, 09:56 PM	This isn't my argument, for what it's worth. (That's why I started off with "Personally, my opinion...") @Magister: I remember the argument in question. Let me put it to you this way: could you spend 10 rounds activating Hand Afire to deal +20d6 damage per attack? Of course not. Since Hand Afire and Weapon Afire are basically the same ability that just works on a different kind of target, they don't stack. Note, however, that the FAQ states that you can use Weapon Afire on your Fire Lash ability so it isn't as if sources of fire damage never stack. You just can't stack two or more identical spells/effects. Of course, it's not totally clear what effects are "identical". Obviously two Weapon Afire abilities wouldn't stack, but would Weapon of Energy (Fire) stack with Weapon Afire in your opinion?
MindWandererB 11-20-06, 10:30 PM	Obviously two Weapon Afire abilities wouldn't stack, but would Weapon of Energy (Fire) stack with Weapon Afire in your opinion?Absolutely. Only functionally identical abilities wouldn't stack--and even then, sometimes they do, such as double-flaming weapons. Which are which can often be a judgment call--for instance, I'm still unclear on why you can double-flame a weapon but not double-psionic weapon if you have two foci.
Sutro 11-21-06, 01:33 AM	Hey guys. :) Building a new character here and was curious about something, being new to CoCo. I was looking at the intimidate skill section... As a Free Activity, you can use your Intimidate skill to scare one or more allies of your opponent that have an intelligence of 3 or more. Your Intimidate value must be at least as high as (Ally CR + Ally Wisdom + Resistance to fear) to affect him or her (called Courage Value). ... and was curious if value, in this context, meant your ranks + bonuses or the skill result if you took ten. Not hard if you take ten, pretty dang difficult without. -Sutro
McJarvis 11-21-06, 01:33 AM	Hey guys. :) Building a new character here and was curious about something, being new to CoCo. I was looking at the intimidate skill section... As a Free Activity, you can use your Intimidate skill to scare one or more allies of your opponent that have an intelligence of 3 or more. Your Intimidate value must be at least as high as (Ally CR + Ally Wisdom + Resistance to fear) to affect him or her (called Courage Value). ... and was curious if value, in this context, meant your ranks + bonuses or the skill result if you took ten. Not hard if you take ten, pretty dang difficult without. -Sutro Just the plain + value without a die roll. It's pretty easy to make enemy allies shaken, pretty difficult to get them panicked.
Zelck 11-21-06, 02:14 AM	Yea, IMO Intimidate is underpowered unless you really hate allies and have a +intimidate item plus high handle animal. Still, don't let me discourage you ;).
Abyssal Stalker 11-21-06, 02:22 AM	Might be, but on the other hand it might create a big hole into the opponent's plans. If you actually manage to intimidate for example a mount so that it doesn't come to the fight, that's a really big advantage. Most mounted combatants have hard times without their loyal pony...
TheMagister 11-21-06, 08:04 AM	Hand Afire is specifically listed as applying to unarmed strikes. Weapon Afire specifically states that it only applies to a weapon held. Unarmed strikes are not held weapons. Therefore Weapon Afire would not apply to unarmed strikes. I may by slicing the baloney a little thin, but I'm pretty certain of my position. "Wielded" and "held" are two different things. I fail to see how a monk couldn't grip his right hand in his left and thus be "holding" a weapon. He doesn't have to "wield" that weapon, just "hold" it. He's basically shaking hands (or feet, or elbows, or whatever) with himself. Saying that he couldn't "hold" his unarmed strike is pretty ludicrous. @Magister: I remember the argument in question. Let me put it to you this way: could you spend 10 rounds activating Hand Afire to deal +20d6 damage per attack? Of course not. Since Hand Afire and Weapon Afire are basically the same ability that just works on a different kind of target, they don't stack. Absolutely not! Hand Afire multiple times is Hand Afire multiple times. Hand Afire once and Weapon Afire once are one occurance each of different abilities that target different things. Hand Afire targets a pyro's hand, and Weapon Afire targets a weapon that the pyro holds. It's not my fault that in a monk's instance those two different targets are one target that is eligible to receive both abilities. A character who is not a monk could not pull off this particular combination, because their unarmed strikes are not considered manufactured weapons. TM
Abyssal Stalker 11-21-06, 08:17 AM	One could also argue that hand afire couldn't be cast in a monk's hand at all. When the power is in effect, it changes an unarmed attack into an "armed" unarmed attack. A monk's unarmed attack is already "armed", so it isn't a suitable target for that power. :P Monk's attacks are more like natural attacks than manufactured weapons IMO. The method you are suggesting is a two-handed unarmed "armed" attack, which isn't supported by the core rules. I remember seeing a feat somewhere that allowed it, but it wasn't in the core books. And it was probably 3.0 material. And yes, I don't actually know anything about this subject. :)
hogarth 11-21-06, 08:25 AM	Might be, but on the other hand it might create a big hole into the opponent's plans. If you actually manage to intimidate for example a mount so that it doesn't come to the fight, that's a really big advantage. Most mounted combatants have hard times without their loyal pony... Indeed -- there are a non-trivial number of gladiators who rely on horses or familiars to do (some of) their dirty work for them.
NiQil 11-21-06, 08:36 AM	I may by slicing the baloney a little thin, but I'm pretty certain of my position. "Wielded" and "held" are two different things. I fail to see how a monk couldn't grip his right hand in his left and thus be "holding" a weapon. He doesn't have to "wield" that weapon, just "hold" it. He's basically shaking hands (or feet, or elbows, or whatever) with himself. Saying that he couldn't "hold" his unarmed strike is pretty ludicrous. Saying that he can is even more ludicrous. Find me something.....ANYTHING...in the core rules that says you can hold an unarmed weapon in the manner you are referring to. Once again, you are trying to apply real-world logic to a gaming mechanic. I'm guilty of this all the time, so I speak from experience. But this isn't gonna fly. To give you another gaming mechanic example...monks do not have to strike with their hands...then can use feet, elbows, knees, etc. If your hands are occupied (With a Fire Lash and something else, for example), how would you "hold" your foot to attack in the manner you suggest? Gonna go prone to use a hand to hold your foot? Or how about attacking with a headbutt? All of these are considered unarmed strikes for a monk, and none of them work in the fashion you desire. So no, Weapon Afire will not work with unarmed strikes. There is no mechanic for holding an unarmed strike in the manner you suggest. Absolutely not! Hand Afire multiple times is Hand Afire multiple times. Hand Afire once and Weapon Afire once are one occurance each of different abilities that target different things. Hand Afire targets a pyro's hand, and Weapon Afire targets a weapon that the pyro holds. It's not my fault that in a monk's instance those two different targets are one target that is eligible to receive both abilities. A character who is not a monk could not pull off this particular combination, because their unarmed strikes are not considered manufactured weapons. TM I will agree with this portion. If Weapon Afire were to apply to unarmed strikes, it would stak with Hand Afire for this reason. But since it doesn't apply, the point is moot. This is the same reason Dissolving Weapon does not apply to monk unarmed strikes. It also requires a held weapon as a target.
Dracazar 11-21-06, 08:45 AM	Hi mates, As you have noticed I'm not here since some days... I'm so sorry but I'm near to end my task to finish university studies so I should be free soon If there are problems with my 'magic items' please contact me via istant messaging and I'll fix them: Yahoo: dracazar Or write me a PM/email but I'm reading them 1/day See you soon
TheMagister 11-21-06, 09:22 AM	Saying that he can is even more ludicrous. Find me something.....ANYTHING...in the core rules that says you can hold an unarmed weapon in the manner you are referring to. Once again, you are trying to apply real-world logic to a gaming mechanic. I'm guilty of this all the time, so I speak from experience. But this isn't gonna fly. To give you another gaming mechanic example...monks do not have to strike with their hands...then can use feet, elbows, knees, etc. If your hands are occupied (With a Fire Lash and something else, for example), how would you "hold" your foot to attack in the manner you suggest? Gonna go prone to use a hand to hold your foot? Or how about attacking with a headbutt? All of these are considered unarmed strikes for a monk, and none of them work in the fashion you desire. So no, Weapon Afire will not work with unarmed strikes. There is no mechanic for holding an unarmed strike in the manner you suggest. Please draw your attention to the bolded portion of your quotation. "Holding" and "wielding" a weapon are two different things. A pyro does not have to retain his grip on a weapon for it to be Afire (this is where the "thrown weapons and/or fired ammunition still do fire damage after they leave the pyro's hands and no longer become "held" point comes in). A monk simply has to "hold" whichever part of his body he chooses (since his unarmed strike is considered a manufactured weapon) and spend a move action, and that weapon (synonymous with unarmed strike) will do an extra 2d6 fire damage. He can release his hold on the weapon, and it will still be Afire until he chooses for it not to be ("for as long as he wields it"). Monks "wield" their unarmed strikes (so to speak; to say a monk doesn't "wield" his unarmed strikes is nonsensical) until they choose not to threaten any area around themselves. I will agree with this portion. If Weapon Afire were to apply to unarmed strikes, it would stak with Hand Afire for this reason. But since it doesn't apply, the point is moot. This is the same reason Dissolving Weapon does not apply to monk unarmed strikes. It also requires a held weapon as a target. Then the ruling on Dissolving Weapon not being able to affect unarmed strikes is wrong. If it is an FAQ ruling, then it's still wrong, but I'll accept it. If it is a CoCo houserule, then it needs to be changed because it is contradictory to a monk's unarmed strikes being considered manufactured weapons for all intents and purposes. Tangent: Dissolving Weapon and Dissolving Touch should not stack on unarmed strikes. My reasoning on this one is that one or the other power descriptions directly references the other as being "As Dissolving Touch" or "As Dissolving Weapon". Weapon Afire and Hand Afire have no such affiliation with one another. Hand Afire is specifically listed as applying to unarmed strikes. Weapon Afire specifically states that it only applies to a weapon held. Unarmed strikes are not held weapons. Therefore Weapon Afire would not apply to unarmed strikes. Hand Afire is specifically listed as applying to a hand. Unarmed strikes made with that hand are considered armed. A longsword is not a "held weapon" either until someone actually wraps fingers (or other appendages) around it's mass. An unarmed strike is not a "held weapon" until someone does the same thing. To throw your words back at you with a twist: "Hand Afire is specifically listed as applying to a hand. Weapon Afire is specifically listed as applying to a held weapon. Gauntlets are not "held weapons" unless they are actually picked up and held (normally they are "worn" weapons). One could not reach across his body with his other hand and "hold" his gauntlet that is on his primary hand. He would have to take the gauntlet completely off to qualify as "holding" the gauntlet. Therefore, Weapon Afire does not apply to gauntlets." It's silly. TM
DSugui 11-21-06, 10:29 AM	Tangent: Dissolving Weapon and Dissolving Touch should not stack on unarmed strikes. My reasoning on this one is that one or the other power descriptions directly references the other as being "As Dissolving Touch" or "As Dissolving Weapon". Weapon Afire and Hand Afire have no such affiliation with one another.Yet they are mechanically the same thing. If Hand Afire and Weapon Afire stack, so should Dissolving Touch and Dissolving Weapon.
TheMagister 11-21-06, 11:39 AM	Yet they are mechanically the same thing. If Hand Afire and Weapon Afire stack, so should Dissolving Touch and Dissolving Weapon. I don't think I was as clear as I could have been. Dissolving Weapon's power description states: "As dissolving touch, except..." It's that "As dissolving touch" part that I'm interested in. It tells the reader, "this is the same power except it targets a held weapon instead of a creature or object touched." Hand Afire and Weapon Afire are totally different from Dissolving Touch and Dissolving Weapon. First of all, Hand Afire's target is not a creature or object touched, it is the pyro's hand. <snip> Flames engulf one of the pyrokineticist's hands (but do her no harm).<snip> Weapon Afire's target is one weapon she holds (as dissolving weapon). <snip> Flames that harm neither her nor the weapon engulf one weapon she holds...<snip> Just because the circumstances are similar does not mean that the relationships between the involved powers/abilities are identical.
hogarth 11-21-06, 11:50 AM	Just because the circumstances are similar does not mean that the relationships between the involved powers/abilities are identical. Let me get your arguments straight: "Dissolving Weapon and Dissolving Touch are identical except their target is different. That's why they don't stack." "Hand Afire and Weapon Afire are not identical because their target is different. That's why they do stack." :uh-huh:
Hirumajoe 11-21-06, 12:34 PM	So I've been wondering. What, functionally, is the difference to a caster of bringing a wand with 5 charges versus a caster bringing a scroll with 5 copies of a spell on it? The wand will be cheaper (15 gp per charge of a level 1/CL 1 spell versus 25gp per scroll of a level 1/CL 1 spell). The wand will be easier to use (no level check required, etc). The wand can only take spells of up to level 4, which isn't an issue until around ECL 7 or so. The big one of course is that wands aren't actually affected by the expendables cap. So in the long run, craft wands (or dorjes) would be a far more effective investment than craft scrolls I'm thinking. Since you could sell back unused portions at cost. Although I guess there's a credit cost associated with being able to use *any* spell in a wand, it functionally doesn't limit the power of a particular character. Especially if you take Gather Information to rank 5 (credit free 5 charge wand each week!)
McJarvis 11-21-06, 12:36 PM	Versatility. Scrolls can come stacked in 6's, wands have to come stacked in 50's. Also, scribe scroll is a bonus feat for wizzies.
McJarvis 11-21-06, 12:38 PM	Let me get your arguments straight: "Dissolving Weapon and Dissolving Touch are identical except their target is different. That's why they don't stack." "Hand Afire and Weapon Afire are not identical because their target is different. That's why they do stack." :uh-huh: His arguement is more like "Dissolving Weapon & Dissolving touch are referenced to each other, so they don't stack" "Hand Afire and Weapon Afire are not identical because their target is different, that's why they stack."
Zevox 11-21-06, 12:39 PM	Functionally, the only differences are in wands being better (no ASF, for instance, cheaper per charge, etc). Wands with few charges are superior in every way to scrolls. The difference that makes scrolls more popular is that its impossible to get a wand with less than 50 charges without spending credits (and not many people want to spend credits one something they're going to lose after a few fights), or any wand other than those on the wand list in the SRD without spending credits. Yes, someone with Gather Information can abuse this, but thats one of the things our use of Gather Information is intended to do. Zevox
TheMagister 11-21-06, 12:55 PM	Let me get your arguments straight: "Dissolving Weapon and Dissolving Touch are identical except their target is different. That's why they don't stack." "Hand Afire and Weapon Afire are not identical because their target is different. That's why they do stack." That's an accurate depiction of that particular point in my stance on this issue. I'm pretty sure I explained it well and documented my sources and reasonings in earlier posts. What's so confusing about it? Perhaps a more complete summation would be: "Dissolving Weapon and Dissolving Touch are identical because Dissolving Weapon directly references itself in this manner, 'as dissolving touch'. That renders the two powers identical with the exception of their differing targets. Ruling two sources of extra damage as identical is important to note for purposes of determining their 'stacking' potential. Bonuses to damage from identical sources never stack." "Hand Afire and Weapon Afire are not identical because neither ability references the other, and because their targets are different. Despite the fact that each ability provides similar benefits (namely: +2d6 fire damage on a successful attack), the source of the damage is not the same. Hand Afire's damage is the result of the pyro's hand being granted a flaming aura. Weapon Afire's damage is the result of a held weapon of the pyro's being granted a seperate flaming aura. In the case of a pyro-monk, the pyro-monk's hand (which can be used to deliver unarmed strikes) is also considered a manufactured weapon for all intents and purposes. Thus, when activating Hand Afire, a monk-pyro is limited to targeting one of his hands. When activating Weapon Afire, a monk-pyro is limited to targeting a held weapon. Since a monk-pyro's hand (read: unarmed strike) is considered a manufactured weapon for all intents and purposes, a monk-pyro can target his hand with both Hand Afire and Weapon Afire, provided he can hold the hand he wishes to target with Weapon Afire." There. I don't think I can state it any clearer than that. ... But I'll bet someone makes me. {sigh}
DSugui 11-21-06, 01:20 PM	I still don't get it... :thinks: Just kidding. :devil: I understand what your point is. BUt it just seems to me that you are distorting the words to get what you want. This is the problem when you take RAW and not RAI. What I meant earlier is that mechanically the abilities are the same. Both Dissolving Whatever and Whatever Afire are abilities/powers that: 1) Deal extra elemental damage 2) Have one version of it for unarmed strikes 3) Have one version of it for weapons 4) Only the person who can manifest the power/use the ability receives the benefits of it. The words "hold" and "weild" are there so to enforce 4). I don't think they are meant to stack to each other. I don't have quotations or writen rules to base my argument, so don't even bother asking. It's just how I feel. You have to remember that game designers can't imagine every scenario when making new abilities/rules (although they could at least remember the most common...). If it were in my TT game, I would never allow it to stack (as I often try to use RAI over RAW), but here things are different, so the decision is up to the elders.
Gonbow 11-21-06, 01:51 PM	TM's argument is pretty solid. Weapon Afire and Hand Afire are not the same thing. They are similar to each-other, but if they had appear in disparate places, no one would claim they are the same. It is only because they are right next to each-other that this claim is raised. Dissolving Weapon & Touch on the other hand, would not be the same, except that they specifically say that they are. Weapon & Hand Afire do no such thing. Yes, it's a technicality, but everything in D&D is a technicality. RAI, they are supposed to affect different things. RAW, they overlap alot. I.E: Monks and anyone with natural weapons. And as a side note, it is not true that the bonuses from the same thing never stack. See: Two flaming enchantments on a single weapon.
hogarth 11-21-06, 02:07 PM	TM's argument is pretty solid. Weapon Afire and Hand Afire are not the same thing. They are similar to each-other, but if they had appear in disparate places, no one would claim they are the same. It is only because they are right next to each-other that this claim is raised. At any rate, this is all speculation until the Elders rule on it. It looks like two of them have looked askance at the possibility so far...
MindWandererB 11-21-06, 02:23 PM	"Hand Afire and Weapon Afire are not identical because neither ability references the other, and because their targets are different. Despite the fact that each ability provides similar benefits (namely: +2d6 fire damage on a successful attack), the source of the damage is not the same. Hand Afire's damage is the result of the pyro's hand being granted a flaming aura. Weapon Afire's damage is the result of a held weapon of the pyro's being granted a seperate flaming aura.There's only one reason why I don't agree with you: Psionic Weapon + Psionic Fist. Neither ability references the other. The targets are different. They have functionally identical effects. And they explicitly do not stack, per FAQ. If you can explain the difference to me in a way that I can agree with, I'll support your argument. (We can discuss whether unarmed strikes are "held" another time. There is no standing ruling on monk unarmed strikes being ineligible for Dissolving Weapon, and I'd disagree with it if there were.)
TheMagister 11-21-06, 02:56 PM	There's only one reason why I don't agree with you: Psionic Weapon + Psionic Fist. Neither ability references the other. The targets are different. They have functionally identical effects. And they explicitly do not stack, per FAQ. If you can explain the difference to me in a way that I can agree with, I'll support your argument. I'll gladly do so, but not in the way that I think you're thinking I think. Before I stick my foot in my mouth, can someone please quote the relevant section of the FAQ that deals with expending multiple psionic foci to power psionic fist and psionic weapon for me? Thanks.
MindWandererB 11-21-06, 03:12 PM	I'll gladly do so, but not in the way that I think you're thinking I think. Before I stick my foot in my mouth, can someone please quote the relevant section of the FAQ that deals with expending multiple psionic foci to power psionic fist and psionic weapon for me? Thanks. It is, unfortunately, one of the worst-written answers in FAQ history: I have a question about psionic focuses. Psicrystal containment allows you to use your psicrystal’s focus instead of your own, and Epic Psionic Focus allows you to use the same psionic focus to power two psionic feats. What isn’t covered is whether you can expend two psionic focuses at the same time. Can you use both your own personal focus and the psicrystal’s focus in the same round? For example, could you use your personal focus for Deep Impact and your psicrystal’s focus for Psionic Weapon on the same attack? You can use them simultaneously if you are doing different things with the expended focus, but if you are using two foci simultaneously to amp damage on the same weapon, it probably doesn’t work—unless the DM feels there is a good reason to allow the combo. I could certainly see this being allowed in some cases.
McJarvis 11-21-06, 03:20 PM	I hereby announce that I will be attempting an Elocater build of my own design. Just thought I'd give everyone a heads up for ? reason. :-)
MindWandererB 11-21-06, 03:24 PM	I hereby announce that I will be attempting an Ellocater build of my own design. Just thought I'd give everyone a heads up for ? reason. :-) Ooh, elocaters. I like elocaters. Closest thing to a psionic rogue in core. Zero was going to be one, before he had his hands taken away. I was really looking forward to being a Fine-sized flying sniper.
TheMagister 11-21-06, 03:31 PM	"Unless the DM feels there is a good reason to allow the combo" and "I could certainly see this being allowed in some cases" deals specifically with the use of psionic foci (and is frustratingly non-specific). He's basically saying, "Rule 0 it." My reasoning stands alone well, and meshes into the RAW cleanly. Confusing the issue by equating it with an ambiguously answered seperate issue should not be construed as a valid counter-argument. I suppose that if I were forced to speak (and I am because the burden of proof is on me) I would say that class abilities have nothing to do with the relationship between psionic foci and psionic feats. Class abilities aren't dealt with mechanically in the same fashion as psionic feats and should be judged on their own merits. Furthermore, the FAQ answer clearly (oxymoronically) states that the Sage "could certainly see this combo being allowed in some cases". If an Elder (MWB) forced me to compare the two, I would have to say, "This is one of those cases, for the reasons that I have already put forth."
hogarth 11-21-06, 03:36 PM	Ooh, elocaters. I like elocaters. Closest thing to a psionic rogue in core. Zero was going to be one, before he had his hands taken away. I was really looking forward to being a Fine-sized flying sniper. I like the abilities an elocater gets. I don't particularly like the Spring Attack feat chain or the way they wrote the poorly-defined Scorn Earth ability.
McJarvis 11-21-06, 03:44 PM	I like the abilities an elocater gets. I don't particularly like the Spring Attack feat chain or the way they wrote the poorly-defined Scorn Earth ability. What is poorly worded about it? (specifically)? edit-> I suppose if I really wanted to read into it I could figure that it means I get a "walk on walls" ability, since it doesn't say horizontal surfaces. What does this feature grant in CoCo exactly?(the main reason I found it desirable is the ignoring rough terrain in the Forest, Sewer, etc, etc)
MindWandererB 11-21-06, 03:48 PM	What is poorly worded about it? (specifically)? edit-> I suppose if I really wanted to read into it I could figure that it means I get a "walk on walls" ability, since it doesn't say horizontal surfaces. What does this feature grant in CoCo exactly?(the main reason I found it desirable is the ignoring rough terrain in the Forest, Sewer, etc, etc) The way that if you somehow manage to end up too high over the ground, you're levitating instead of scorning earth. Can you choose to start levitating if you jump off a pegasus, for instance? Can you just start levitating at will when on the ground? What if you just jump really high? It's a mess. Incidentally, TM, I was mistaken about double-flaming weapons being in the FAQ. Since they're not, I don't think that should be allowed, either.
hogarth 11-21-06, 03:50 PM	What is poorly worded about it? (specifically)? It says "You can hover 1 ft above the ground." But then it says "If you go more than 1 ft above the ground, it's like you're levitating." So can you go more than 1 ft above the ground or not? (From context, the answer seems to be "yes", although it doesn't say how fast you can gain altitude.)
McJarvis 11-21-06, 03:51 PM	It says "You can hover 1 ft above the ground." But then it says "If you go more than 1 ft above the ground, it's like you're levitating." So can you go more than 1 ft above the ground or not? (From context, the answer seems to be "yes", although it doesn't say how fast you can gain altitude.) "distances higher than 1 foot above any surface, her speed diminishes to 10 feet per round." ? I'd imagine that is horizontal speed as well as verticle speed. edit-> Though I guess I get the whole "jumping" thing. I feel like the mechanics of the game take over, though....once you're more than 1 ft from the nearest ground down, your speed goes down to 10 ft. That means you can still jump up-> but at a -12 penalty. (or more, depending...)
TheMagister 11-21-06, 03:54 PM	Incidentally, TM, I was mistaken about double-flaming weapons being in the FAQ. Since they're not, I don't think that should be allowed, either. I know I saw that somewhere. Maybe in a Rules of the Game article? Darn this stupid firewall!
hogarth 11-21-06, 04:02 PM	"distances higher than 1 foot above any surface, her speed diminishes to 10 feet per round." ? I'd imagine that is horizontal speed as well as verticle speed. It just seems odd to me that they don't actually come out and say "you can hover at any altitude you want," it just specificies the penalties if you do. Also, it's dumb that they specify a speed of "10 feet per round" when D&D speeds are usually quoted as "10 feet". Does "10 feet per round" mean it takes a move action to move 10 feet? Or a full round action?
McJarvis 11-21-06, 04:06 PM	Also, it's dumb that they specify a speed of "10 feet per round" when D&D speeds are usually quoted as "10 feet". Does "10 feet per round" mean it takes a move action to move 10 feet? Or a full round action? Ho hum. I'm inclined to just say it changes your speed to 10 ft and leave it at that. :) Also that is still a horizontal speed...jump checks are probably necessary to get up further. How long does it take to fall in D&D?(if you just dismissed the scorn earth levitate portion of the power...?)
TheMagister 11-21-06, 05:36 PM	Incidentally, TM, I was mistaken about double-flaming weapons being in the FAQ. Since they're not, I don't think that should be allowed, either. Incidentally, what's your hangup with a weapon dealing more fire damage than +1d6? What is the functional difference between a +1 flaming flaming longsword and a +1 flaming icy longsword? They both deal 1d8+2d6 damage, after all. The flaming flaming weapon is actually less useful vs. a creature with fire resistance. As for multiple instances of energy damage on a weapon stacking, consider the "burst" weapon enhancements. All burst weapons deal the +1d6 energy damage on a normal hit, and add an extra +1d10 on a critical hit. Do you roll the d6 and the d10 and take only the higher value? Of course not; you total the two. Same thing with the theoretical "flaming flaming" weapon. You total the two. I know I'm not pulling this out of a body orifice. I read this somewhere. Somebody help me out...
McJarvis 11-21-06, 05:39 PM	Rules of the game: Using Magic Items, Part 1 "If the ammunition already has one or more magical properties, add the weapon's properties to the ammunition's properties. DMs can, and probably should, place some limits on what properties ammunition can receive. For example, it probably wouldn't do for ammunition to receive the same property twice; that is, you'd get no extra effect from firing arrows with the flaming property from a bow with the flaming property." Sorry TM...I was rooting for you until I read that.
MindWandererB 11-21-06, 05:54 PM	I know I'm not pulling this out of a body orifice. I read this somewhere. Somebody help me out...I recalled that, as well, but now that I think about it, it may have been from an unofficial source. You know... there's really nothing wrong with us asking Customer Service some things every once in a while. Their quality has improved immensely over the last couple of years.
Hrothmund 11-21-06, 05:56 PM	Hi guys, I am new to Gladius, but I am looking forward to my first fight. My gaming background is mainly Living Greyhawk so I can appreciate the creativity and challenge brought out by restricting the sources allowed for character creation. Here is my character: Maelosh the Breaker Let me know if I made a mistake so I can get a battle under my belt this week. Thanks, -Hrothmund
McJarvis 11-21-06, 06:10 PM	Hi guys, I am new to Gladius, but I am looking forward to my first fight. My gaming background is mainly Living Greyhawk so I can appreciate the creativity and challenge brought out by restricting the sources allowed for character creation. Here is my character: Maelosh the Breaker Let me know if I made a mistake so I can get a battle under my belt this week. Thanks, -Hrothmund Just a few things I saw on a brief lookover. 1) You have "Sun Elf" written down after your racial type(humanoid) 2) Wood elves don't have a -2 mod to charisma(you'll thank me later when someone is ego whiping you to death) 3) General clean-up at the end: There seem to be many unfinished sections that either need to be filled in or removed(Allies, Class abilities, etc)
MindWandererB 11-21-06, 06:12 PM	Hi guys, I am new to Gladius, but I am looking forward to my first fight. My gaming background is mainly Living Greyhawk so I can appreciate the creativity and challenge brought out by restricting the sources allowed for character creation. Here is my character: Maelosh the Breaker Let me know if I made a mistake so I can get a battle under my belt this week. Thanks, -Hrothmund Just little things. Wood elves get no -2 Cha. Int with 2 points is 10 base, not 8. You should delete "(Conditional Modifier)" unless there actually is such a modifier. Same goes for flight speed, DR, gear and allies you don't have, etc. Also most skills in which you have no ranks, except for the required ones (Balance, Climb, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, and Spot). Weight carried is what? The Monk Wis bonus to AC isn't Insight, it's unnamed. You don't have the 5 ranks of Profession required to use it to make money. Tumble is a class skill for monks. You forgot to actually buy your bow. And the accounting section isn't done.
NiQil 11-21-06, 09:34 PM	@ TM: At this point, yer probably gonna want to move your discussion about Weapon Afire over to the Oracle. You've had two Elders (myself and MWB) weigh in and say that your intepretation is not correct, each for our own reasons. So yer gonna need to change our minds, or convince Sauro, Pittbull and Telin that you are correct. As it stands, Weapon Afire will not apply to an unarmed strike. Incidentally, I figured I would point out that in the monk's Unarmed Strike description, it says that they count as manufactured weapons for the purposes of spells and effects that enhance weapons. Nowhere, however, to my knowledge, does it say that an unarmed strike counts as a held weapon. Find me a quote that says that, or even implies that, and that might convince me. No amount of debate is going to without one. On a lighter note....I really wanna see a monk use his hands to hold his head to make a headbutt to have the headbutt count as a held weapon. The visual of that is too funny for words. Especially if you add the fact that if he *is using Weapon Afire, his head would be on fire. :P
Hrothmund 11-21-06, 11:18 PM	I think that I have made the corrections that were mentioned. I have left the ally sections in case I eventually pick up an ally. Here is the character: Maelosh the Breaker
Scribelords 11-22-06, 12:05 AM	Birthdays Trying to make sure that all updates that were sent in have been added correctly. Please look over the B-Day roster to double check. For those that don't know; you get credits on your birthday! Just send a PM to Scribelords with the information. And while you're at it, send a picture of yourself to Caterane for some more credits. It's all at the bottom of this post. -Vath.
Vathelokai 11-22-06, 12:12 AM	MQlord wanted Hassan is looking to do a quick monster fight/mini quest to level before jumping back into his cycle. If anyone want's it, send a note to Pitlords. If not, he'll be on someone's list in the pairings.
Sutro 11-22-06, 01:44 AM	Just posted my char, first timer here. Let me know what you think. Thanks, Sutro
Gonbow 11-22-06, 02:10 AM	Just posted my char, first timer here. Let me know what you think. Thanks, Sutro I just did a quick scan, but since your noting all the rage/fatigue changes, I thought I'd point out that all of your various AC's change when raged, not just your normal. Also, you'll be at -1 AC to your Touch AC when fatigued as your dex goes down.
Sutro 11-22-06, 02:42 AM	I'll probably add those in tomorrow, I spent the better part of two days thinking/crafting this character and I want to take a break from it. :P BTW, does mage armor/shield effectively add to your touch AC, or simply your AC against incorporeal attacks?
MindWandererB 11-22-06, 02:58 AM	I'll probably add those in tomorrow, I spent the better part of two days thinking/crafting this character and I want to take a break from it. :P BTW, does mage armor/shield effectively add to your touch AC, or simply your AC against incorporeal attacks? Just the latter. "Incorporeal touch" is a misnomer.
Abyssal Stalker 11-22-06, 04:51 AM	@Hrothmund, Sutro: Welcome!
Abyssal Stalker 11-22-06, 05:21 AM	Does the psionic/magic transparency work with UMD/UPD? If a medium-sized character has a natural attack with 1d8+x damage, what happens to damage die when he takes levels in monk? Does it go up to 1d12+x, like unarmed damage or does the character get an unarmed attack with 1d6+x (which in this case sucks, being lousy compared to the original damage)?
Sutro 11-22-06, 07:45 AM	Thanks, Stalker. I've tried to put some final polish on the sheet as I probably won't be on before it's locked in for pairings, so hopefully I've got everything right and easy to access for the pitlords.
NiQil 11-22-06, 07:52 AM	Does the psionic/magic transparency work with UMD/UPD? If a medium-sized character has a natural attack with 1d8+x damage, what happens to damage die when he takes levels in monk? Does it go up to 1d12+x, like unarmed damage or does the character get an unarmed attack with 1d6+x (which in this case sucks, being lousy compared to the original damage)? No transparancy between UMD and UPD. If you want to use them both, you have to have them both. There was at one time here, but it was overturned, both because it was deemed overpowered, but also because it was seen as more in line with the core rules. As to your second question, taking monk levels would not affect existing natural attacks for a creature in any way as far as damage dice are concerned. The unarmed strike of a monk would progress normally, and the character would have his natural attack to use either by itself when single attacking, or at a penalty when multi-attacking.
Abyssal Stalker 11-22-06, 08:21 AM	No transparancy between UMD and UPD. If you want to use them both, you have to have them both. There was at one time here, but it was overturned, both because it was deemed overpowered, but also because it was seen as more in line with the core rules. As to your second question, taking monk levels would not affect existing natural attacks for a creature in any way as far as damage dice are concerned. The unarmed strike of a monk would progress normally, and the character would have his natural attack to use either by itself when single attacking, or at a penalty when multi-attacking. So does this mean that natural attacks can't be used with flurry of blows?
Macbrea 11-22-06, 08:31 AM	From the FAQ Can a monk who has natural weapon attacks (such as a centaur monk) attack unarmed and still use his natural weapons? For example, let’s say he’s a 4th-level monk. Can he use a flurry of blows and attack at +5/+5/+0 unarmed (plus other bonuses) and then at +0/+0 for 2 hooves? If the creature normally is allowed to make both weapon attacks and natural weapon attacks as part of the same full attack routine, the monk can do the same (making unarmed strikes in place of weapon attacks). Since a centaur can make two hoof attacks in addition to his longsword attack, a centaur monk can make two hoof attacks in addition to his unarmed strike attack (or attacks, depending on his base attack bonus). The monk can’t use his natural weapon attacks as part of a flurry of blows, but he can make natural weapon attacks in addition to his flurry. Such attacks suffer the same –2 penalty as the monk’s flurry attacks in addition to the normal –5 penalty for secondary natural attacks. An 4th-level centaur monk has a base attack bonus of +7 (+4 from his 4 monstrous humanoid Hit Dice, and +3 from h 8 monk levels). If he performs a flurry of blows, he makes three unarmed strikes, at +5/+5/+0. He can add two hoof attacks at –2/–2 (–5 as secondary weapons, and –2 from the flurry).
Abyssal Stalker 11-22-06, 08:37 AM	Thanks!
Vathelokai 11-22-06, 08:38 AM	I think that I have made the corrections that were mentioned. I have left the ally sections in case I eventually pick up an ally. Here is the character: Maelosh the Breaker Thanks, Stalker. I've tried to put some final polish on the sheet as I probably won't be on before it's locked in for pairings, so hopefully I've got everything right and easy to access for the pitlords. Remember to send a PM to the 'pitlords' account to tell them that your new character should be on the roster. Otherwise they won't be paired this week. Character Roster
SauroGrenom 11-22-06, 11:00 AM	I'm taking off for a few days on a vacation for thanksgiving. I'll be back on saturday night. I may have a few minutes here and there for checking on things, but I don't expect to be able to make much in the way of posts. BTW I like the new Weekly. I'll try and make a contribution to it in the comming weeks after I get back. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! :turkey: Cheers, Sauro
hogarth 11-22-06, 11:26 AM	So in the long run, craft wands (or dorjes) would be a far more effective investment than craft scrolls I'm thinking. Since you could sell back unused portions at cost. Although I guess there's a credit cost associated with being able to use *any* spell in a wand, it functionally doesn't limit the power of a particular character. Especially if you take Gather Information to rank 5 (credit free 5 charge wand each week!) I agree that wand/dorje crafting could be useful -- I picked Craft Dorje as a feat for Reginald Molehusband, so I'll see how it works out. However, you should note that there are no rules in the SRD for crafting a spell trigger item with less than 50 charges. If it were a staff, you could make some spells cost more than one charge, but I don't know if the same thing would be possible with a wand in the absence of a rule allowing it. The pricing would be straightforward, though.
Macbrea 11-22-06, 01:52 PM	Actually to quote the SRD : Prices listed are always for fully charged items. (When an item is created, it is fully charged.) For an item that’s worthless when its charges run out (which is the case for almost all charged items), the value of the partially used item is proportional to the number of charges left. For an item that has usefulness in addition to its charges, only part of the item’s value is based on the number of charges left. So, by that reading it would be possible as per the SRD to gain wands or other charged items with less then max charges. This has held true before on selling a partially used wand later in your character's life. Example: Mektos sold a wand of magic missiles at one point. It was listed as: Wand of Magic Missile [CL 1] [45 charges] [-750 gp][Sold: +337gp 5sp]
hogarth 11-22-06, 02:01 PM	So, by that reading it would be possible as per the SRD to gain wands or other charged items with less then max charges. This has held true before on selling a partially used wand later in your character's life. Example: Mektos sold a wand of magic missiles at one point. It was listed as: Wand of Magic Missile [CL 1] [45 charges] [-750 gp][Sold: +337gp 5sp] I agree you can buy or sell one (that's why I said pricing is straightforward), but I don't know if you can craft one: Wands are always fully charged (50 charges) when created. Dorjes are always fully charged (50 charges) when created. Staffs are always fully charged (50 charges) when created.
Macbrea 11-22-06, 02:04 PM	Hmm, true.. I guess it wouldn't be much use for crafting. But crafting wise your technically only paying for half the charges. So, it's nearly as bad. :P
hogarth 11-22-06, 02:07 PM	Hmm, true.. I guess it wouldn't be much use for crafting. But crafting wise your technically only paying for half the charges. So, it's nearly as bad. :P I certainly think it's worthwhile -- you can craft a whole wand, use 5 or 10 charges from it, sell it, then craft a new one if you like. It just takes a certain initial amount of capital to benefit from it.
Macbrea 11-22-06, 02:20 PM	It might be ok to do with the Dorje. With wands your choices are really limited. Quick overview: Dorje ML Market Craft Per charge 1 750 375 7.5 2 4500 2250 45 3 11500 5750 115 4 21000 10500 210 Powerstone ML Market Craft 1 25 12.5 2 150 75 3 375 187.5 4 700 350
MindWandererB 11-22-06, 02:22 PM	It might be ok to do with the Dorje. With wands though the costs become prohibitive. Quick overview: Dorje ML Market Craft Per charge 1 750 375 7.5 2 4500 2250 45 3 11500 5750 115 4 21000 10500 210 Powerstone ML Market Craft 1 25 12.5 2 150 75 3 375 187.5 4 700 350 Umm... dorjes and wands cost the same, except that augmentation often lets you sneak in a "free" half-level.
TheMagister 11-22-06, 02:25 PM	Did the customer service thing for the pyro question. The reference number for your question is '061122-000134'. You should receive a response by email from our support department within the next 2 business days for most questions. Please note that some RPGA request may take longer. A list of RPGA processing times can be found in our knowledgebase. If you need to add information to or cancel your question, you can do so by updating it through the questions sub area of the 'My Stuff' section of this site. I'm sure it'll take longer than 2 business days, what with the holiday and stuff. Here's hopin'. TM
Maraxus 11-22-06, 03:05 PM	Weeeee, Noko made it to level 10!!! It's so cold to be frozen. When will the 10th league be activated?
Macbrea 11-22-06, 03:26 PM	In theory.. that is what the discussion about Iron man tourneyment is about.. hopefully. december. or january.. since decemeber is just generally a screwy month. And congratz.
Zevox 11-22-06, 03:38 PM	Weeeee, Noko made it to level 10!!! It's so cold to be frozen. When will the 10th league be activated? Cat's intending to hold the Iron Man soon (relatively speaking), and it'll open right after that. MWB dropped a hint in the council that it should occur shortly after our first World Event for the Guilds, which should wrap up in early January. So I'd bet January for the Iron Man, and those that are defeated in that probably get to start activating immediately while those who don't continue (that last may be wrong, but January does seem right for the Iron Man). Zevox
Macbrea 11-22-06, 03:56 PM	'All of you shall quiver in fear as the great race is released from it's confinements!', Mutters Lord Frost angerily.
Hrothmund 11-22-06, 03:58 PM	Are the preferred classes for races used in CoCo? Does an elven 3 psion/1 fighter take a 20% decrease to xp gains?
hogarth 11-22-06, 04:03 PM	Are the preferred classes for races used in CoCo? Does an elven 3 psion/1 fighter take a 20% decrease to xp gains? I believe so. But even worse, I think they take a 20% decrease to gp gains as well. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can back me up. (Sometimes I make up rules that don't exist...)
MindWandererB 11-22-06, 04:04 PM	Correct and correct.
Hrothmund 11-22-06, 04:56 PM	When are pairings generally posted?
MindWandererB 11-22-06, 04:58 PM	Soon. Probably an hour or so from now.
Macbrea 11-22-06, 06:51 PM	Yes, we do use favored classes for races. It also effects your winnings in gold as well as experience. This is to prevent a character from being: Gnome Fighter 3/Barbarian 1/psion 1/wilder 1/rogue 1/cleric 1 Gaining 0xp per fight but 3,400 gp per fight.
Vathelokai 11-22-06, 08:12 PM	'All of you shall quiver in fear as the great race is released from it's confinements!', Mutters Lord Frost angerily. "Confinements my tail. Free your mind, bully! And your wings will follow. So hey, you going to the meeting next week? I hear there's new dragonhunters lining up in town." Chipper as always, Saffron spins around in a circle while talking. She yanks a small glowing crystal out of her bag. "Hey you ever see one of these before?"
Zevox 11-22-06, 08:14 PM	@ Etiquette_Gnome - So as not to take up space in the prison with discussion, I'm posting this here: Daniel Ocean (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10630456#post10630456)'s violations are as follows... Expendables Limit Exceeded by 900gp: There seems to be a misunderstanding here, as the wand, smokesticks, alchemist's fire, and thunderstones all count under the expendable cap. No, they do not. If you look at our definition of "expendables" for the purposes of the cap in the rules, only potions, psionic tattoos, scrolls, and powerstones count towards that. Purchased Animal: Not quite sure as to whether this is a violation or not, so I'll just place it here for posterity. The warhorse has Improved Grapple and Deflect Arrows purchased as replacement feats, which I'm not sure is allowed or not. It is allowed (see the customizing rules, or if you mean having them without Improved Unarmed Strike see the Court Decisions), albeit that most around here (myself included) see it as one of the most cheesy uses/abuses of our ally and customization rules out there. The above is still correct, but see MWB's post below for why it is a violation at the moment. You are correct about his other violation (price on crafted MW Fullplate) though. Zevox
MindWandererB 11-22-06, 08:21 PM	It is allowed (see the customizing rules, or if you mean having them without Improved Unarmed Strike see the Court Decisions), albeit that most around here (myself included) see it as one of the most cheesy uses/abuses of our ally and customization rules out there.Except that customized allies are not allowed until ECL 5.
Zevox 11-22-06, 08:24 PM	Except that customized allies are not allowed until ECL 5. Oh?! I'd forgotten about that change. Well then, feel free to bust him for that as well :D . Zevox
Macbrea 11-22-06, 10:40 PM	"Confinements my tail. Free your mind, bully! And your wings will follow. So hey, you going to the meeting next week? I hear there's new dragonhunters lining up in town." Chipper as always, Saffron spins around in a circle while talking. She yanks a small glowing crystal out of her bag. "Hey you ever see one of these before?" Lord Frost eyes crystal curiously then turns head quickly as if he wasn't really paying attention to the glowing crystal, 'Sure, I have two or three at home in my cave. Lost somewhere under my bed pile, hmmph.' Then as if to change subjects really quickly,'Dragon hunters you say? Maybe I can sneak in an pretend to be a small helpless little kitten for them? That would sure teach them!'
NiQil 11-22-06, 10:49 PM	Did the customer service thing for the pyro question. I'm sure it'll take longer than 2 business days, what with the holiday and stuff. Here's hopin'. TM Keep in mind, that while a response from customer service is nice, by our rules it doesn't carry a whole lot of weight. We've gone against their advice on several occasions.
Macbrea 11-22-06, 10:52 PM	If anyones bored can you look over Relanex Thines to make suggestions before I submit him for play? Thanks.
Zevox 11-22-06, 11:18 PM	If anyones bored can you look over Relanex Thines to make suggestions before I submit him for play? Thanks. Lets see here... Experience isn't lost for crafting here, so that note by your xp is unnecessary. Hp should be 23 (+6 con, not +5). Will save should be +7 (+4 wizard, +2 red wizard, +1 resistance). Diplomacy should be +6 (for Know: N&R synergy). Banned schools and other class features (i.e. familiar, specialist defense, etc) aren't feats - you may want to put them in a seperate section to avoid confusion. Why Protection from Arrows as a prepared spell? Most characters by that level either have a magic bow or know to bring oils/scrolls of magic weapon, which renders that useless. Um, you're a straight caster and you're taking a Mithril Shirt's 10% ASF? Well, okay, but I wouldn't advise it. If you keep it though, it only costs 2,100 gp (1,100 for Mithril shirt, +1,000 for the +1 enchantment), not 5,100. Since you're a Red Wizard, I'd suggest picking one of those three schools you're banning you want spells from and making it the Red Wizard one. You can then put spells from it into your spellbook before taking the Red Wizard level and cast them as normal even though the school is banned (including scrolls, wands, etc, but only of spells in your book). In your case, Conjuration might be a great idea (for Mage Armor especially, but also Phantom Steed, Acid Arrow, maybe Web or Summon Swarm, and so on). Thats all I can see/think off right now. Zevox
Vathelokai 11-22-06, 11:47 PM	Lord Frost eyes crystal curiously then turns head quickly as if he wasn't really paying attention to the glowing crystal, 'Sure, I have two or three at home in my cave. Lost somewhere under my bed pile, hmmph.' Then as if to change subjects really quickly,'Dragon hunters you say? Maybe I can sneak in an pretend to be a small helpless little kitten for them? That would sure teach them!' "Ya know, I heard your bed was made out of copper. No! Wait! I wasn't implying anything. Calm down! I sleep on sand myself. Just telling you what some of the two leggers said. Kitten eh? Don't think it would work. As you like to point out, I've hung out with a couple; maybe that would work for you. You could offer to help them find another draco and then turn on them."
Macbrea 11-23-06, 12:08 AM	'My bed is made of gold, silver and copper, thank you very much. I am sure they would expect such a maneuver from one of my color! You on the other hand could wander along and lead them away from killing more of our kin. The two leggers get confused easily if you take them to the wrong alcoves!.', Frost smirks.
Vathelokai 11-23-06, 12:09 AM	If anyones bored can you look over Relanex Thines to make suggestions before I submit him for play? Thanks. Which school to get the lesser ban on Necro - blind/deaf, ghoul touch, spectral hand Enchant - hideous laugh, deep slumber, hold person Conjur - mage armor, grease, acid arrow, glitterdust, web, phantom steed I'm my opinion those are the best of it; I'd have to say that banning conjur last makes the most sense. Especially since that's the school that bypasses spell resistance (which matters until you get circle magic) Unless you're looking to craft a wand of ghoul touch or something. I'd recommend ditching the armor, buying a metamagic rod of extend - if you change your banned schools around, then you can cast extended mage armor and get the 4 ac, no spell fail, and the armor is force (works on ghosts) to boot. Not to mention having 2 extended flame sphere's at your disposal. Lots of knowledges; looking into shapeshifting? Since you have the know:local, picking up alterself for the +6 armor isn't a bad spell choice. That, shield, and defensive tactics can get your ac over 30. I'd consider energy substitution as a feat. You're fire heavy. Sonic is a good choice, but I'd recommend subdual substitution; it takes most opponents down just as fast and most everyone has some kind of energy resist equipment/spell. If you're up for spending credits you might be able to get a meta-rod of energy sub. Or all 6!
Macbrea 11-23-06, 12:15 AM	Gonna switch around Bans.. Trying to debate armor.. Extended might do it nicely. I hate spending rounds buffing.
Vathelokai 11-23-06, 01:28 AM	'My bed is made of gold, silver and copper, thank you very much. I am sure they would expect such a maneuver from one of my color! You on the other hand could wander along and lead them away from killing more of our kin. The two leggers get confused easily if you take them to the wrong alcoves!.', Frost smirks. "Eh, maybe. I'm definitely keeping an eye on them. I hear they're planning an expidition up north. You know, snow lands." Saffron tilts her head and waits for an explosive reaction. "Might want to warn your clutchmates."
Abyssal Stalker 11-23-06, 01:47 AM	As you all have hopefully noticed, I've unofficially taken over the Gladius Weekly. I intend to keep the format close to what it has been previously. I could still use all the help I can get to make it more interesting and enjoyable. So if you are interested in writing in it, just PM me. I'd prefer you to PM before writing anything, so that the both of us won't write on the same subject. The other way to participate is to give me ideas what you'd like to read. What I intend to write about are at least the following: -Guild related fights -Completed quests, missions and miniquests -Guild activities; para-military groups, attitudes, GAPs -A couple of arena fights; not too much, remember that we have been trying to move away from the everybody fights at the arena -system. -"Gladiator of the week"; introducing a random gladiator -Commercials? Please give me feedback on the ideas and how I'm doing with them. I don't want to write something that no one is interested of. If it's crappy, just tell me so that I can improve!
Macbrea 11-23-06, 09:49 AM	'Hmmm, after kin. I will have see if I can intercept them before they head out on their fools errand.', Frost notes to self try and figure out who is actually heading north eat their horses.
hogarth 11-23-06, 09:52 AM	Are NPCs in monster fights restricted by the 1/3 rule as far as spellcasting and X/day abilities go?
Macbrea 11-23-06, 09:57 AM	Are NPCs in monster fights restricted by the 1/3 rule as far as spellcasting and X/day abilities go? Nope, They get full abilities.
DSugui 11-23-06, 11:51 AM	-Commercials?Well, we have so many gladiators that have a profession/craft to earn money, so I think it would be a good idea if some of them had her own store/office and mad advertisements on the Gladius Weekly. Maybe I will send something this week.
McJarvis 11-23-06, 10:39 PM	Supprise rounds granted by ambush are just 1 standard action, right?
Zevox 11-23-06, 11:05 PM	Supprise rounds granted by ambush are just 1 standard action, right? Don't see why they would be different from any other surprise round, which means one standard or move action. Zevox
McJarvis 11-23-06, 11:45 PM	nevermind
McJarvis 11-24-06, 03:26 PM	If you are picking a race that is "always" a certain alignment, can you start them off as a different alignment with no credit cost?
Abyssal Stalker 11-24-06, 03:57 PM	If you are picking a race that is "always" a certain alignment, can you start them off as a different alignment with no credit cost? It costs credits: Alignment: The alignment is freely choosable unless it has "always" in its creature entry (like demons always being chaotic evil). The Monster Manual, however, says that even in this case, exceptions are possible although they are very rare. In order to reflect this here, you have to pay 5 credits per step the alignment is away from the one listed as 'always'. Thus, a lawful good pixie costs 5 credits while a fallen chaotic evil hound archon costs 20 credits.
McJarvis 11-24-06, 07:06 PM	So it costs the same number of creds to start the character with a different alignment as it does to start the character, then later change the alignment? Gotcha. My next character will probably cost me in excess of 50 credits now. :mymy: ((I'll admit it-> I'm a credit junkie))
McJarvis 11-24-06, 08:02 PM	Do Animal Companions get +1 stat at the 4th hit die in addition to the +1Str/Dex they get for being an animal companion?
MindWandererB 11-24-06, 08:24 PM	Do Animal Companions get +1 stat at the 4th hit die in addition to the +1Str/Dex they get for being an animal companion? No.
NiQil 11-24-06, 08:30 PM	Incorrect. Ability Score Improvement: Treat monster Hit Dice the same as character level for determining ability score increases. This only applies to Hit Dice increases, monsters do not gain ability score increases for levels they “already reached” with their racial Hit Dice, since these adjustments are included in their basic ability scores. As long as they get additional hit dice beyond what they started with, they receive ability score increases normally with HD=ECL for this purpose.
MindWandererB 11-24-06, 08:33 PM	Incorrect. As long as they get additional hit dice beyond what they started with, they receive ability score increases normally with HD=ECL for this purpose. Except: Bonus HD: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the animal companion’s base attack and base save bonuses. An animal companion’s base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal’s HD. An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD). An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice.Everything is mentioned except for ability score increases. The ruling in the past is that the +1 Str/+1 Dex every 3 levels in in lieu of the normal increases.
McJarvis 11-24-06, 08:40 PM	Except: Everything is mentioned except for ability score increases. The ruling in the past is that the +1 Str/+1 Dex every 3 levels in in lieu of the normal increases. This is not consistant with our ruling on Dragonhide Chain Shirt. Dragonhide: Types of Dragonhide armors listed are examples and not limiting factors, because other sections say otherwise.(you can use special materials for armor) Animal companions: Everything listed are limiting factors, above and beyond what other texts say. (Normaly extra hd give + attributes) One of these is wrong. I won't tell you which I think is. :)
Zevox 11-24-06, 10:37 PM	One of these is wrong. I won't tell you which I think is. :) I will ;) . Dragonhide. Zevox
NiQil 11-24-06, 11:42 PM	Except: Everything is mentioned except for ability score increases. The ruling in the past is that the +1 Str/+1 Dex every 3 levels in in lieu of the normal increases. Can you please show me the previous rulings of which you refer? I don't recall them, and I have nothing in the Court Decisions to support this. The animal companion rules make no mention of ability increases one way or the other. In the absence of a remark there that changes something, we have no choice but to fall back on the rules for all monsters as it relates to ability increases, since those rules would still be in effect and are not being altered by the animal companion rules in any way. This is similar in application to the overall game rule that says if the 3.5 upgrade did not change a 3.0 rule in some way, then the 3.0 rule is still in effect. Since the animal companion upgrade did not change the normal monster upgrade rules in some way as it relates to ability increases, the normal monster upgrade rules are still in effect.
DSugui 11-25-06, 04:18 AM	I think the key words here are: Bonus HD: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Remember that extra Hit Dice (...)The bonus HD are extra HD, period. What is described after that is only a note to what extra HD give you. The fact that ability increase isn't mentioned doesn't mean you don't gain that with the extra HD.
Caterane 11-25-06, 12:41 PM	As you have surely noticed, I'm not as present in the last week and won't have much time for anything but basic board work in the coming 1-2 weeks. Please send PMs with questions or issues to one of the Elders. The pitlords account continues to work normally, although at a slower pace. Thanks for your understanding. Cat
MindWandererB 11-25-06, 03:22 PM	Can you please show me the previous rulings of which you refer? I don't recall them, and I have nothing in the Court Decisions to support this. The animal companion rules make no mention of ability increases one way or the other. In the absence of a remark there that changes something, we have no choice but to fall back on the rules for all monsters as it relates to ability increases, since those rules would still be in effect and are not being altered by the animal companion rules in any way. This is similar in application to the overall game rule that says if the 3.5 upgrade did not change a 3.0 rule in some way, then the 3.0 rule is still in effect. Since the animal companion upgrade did not change the normal monster upgrade rules in some way as it relates to ability increases, the normal monster upgrade rules are still in effect. Whatever, as long as it's consistent. This should then be the rule for psicrystals, as well, by the same logic; this was not caught on Sunstroke's audit, so I assumed I had done it correctly.
Sutro 11-25-06, 08:12 PM	I've seen on a few small-sized race's character sheets that their equipment's weight is reduced by 1/4th, as well as the carrying capacity. However, I've been looking for about 30 minutes and I cannot for the life of me find a rules citing that equipment's weight is lessened for small/fine, whatever size creatures, only for armor and weapons. Can anyone help me out here?
hogarth 11-25-06, 08:32 PM	I've seen on a few small-sized race's character sheets that their equipment's weight is reduced by 1/4th, as well as the carrying capacity. However, I've been looking for about 30 minutes and I cannot for the life of me find a rules citing that equipment's weight is lessened for small/fine, whatever size creatures, only for armor and weapons. Can anyone help me out here? The "small=1/2 weight" principle only applies for armor and weapons. If you see any violations of this rule, report them in the Prison of Gladius thread. edit: Actually, there are some more items that have a footnote to them, as indicated by other posters below.
Zevox 11-25-06, 09:04 PM	The "small=1/2 weight" principle only applies for armor and weapons. If you see any violations of this rule, report them in the Prison of Gladius thread. Not quite true - certain objects from the "Goods & Services" section of the equipment lists are noted as weighing 1/4 the amount for small characters (Backpacks, Belt Pouches, many skill kits, clothing, and the like). Zevox
Vathelokai 11-25-06, 09:15 PM	The "small=1/2 weight" principle only applies for armor and weapons. If you see any violations of this rule, report them in the Prison of Gladius thread. Not quite my friend... 1: These items weigh one-quarter this amount when made for Small characters. Containers for Small characters also carry one-quarter the normal amount.There are specific items marked that allow them to be made small. By core rules, nothing except magic items, weapons, armor and these specificly marked items can be made small. In fact, even clothing cannot be made for tiny or large characters.
Caterane 11-26-06, 08:46 AM	http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Ablage/Hitlerkatze.jpg :rofl: 200° for the one who sends me that cat! Now you know why we banned Reincarnation LOL
UserNamer 11-26-06, 09:32 AM	I have a question about this attack: Ambush (Attack) Hide (vs Spot) Move (vs Listen) Bluff (vs Sense) Sense (vs Bluff) . Task: All four skills must be higher than the mentioned opposed skills of your opponent. You need at least 5 ranks in each skill. . Effect: You may pick your and your opponents starting boxes, and you gain a surprise round. The boxes still can't be the same. Question: The surprise round I get, could I attack my opponent in that round? I mean even if I can't reach him?
Milov 11-26-06, 10:04 AM	Sorry to jump in like this and interrupt whatever the conversation is currently on... Does anyone know where I can find information on the templates? Specifically the Lycanthrope template? I looked around in the SRD, but couldn't find it. With all due respect, Milov
Vathelokai 11-26-06, 10:10 AM	Sorry to jump in like this and interrupt whatever the conversation is currently on... Does anyone know where I can find information on the templates? Specifically the Lycanthrope template? I looked around in the SRD, but couldn't find it. With all due respect, Milov They are usually in the monster entry at the very end. Templates like fiendish, half celestial and phrenic are given their own monster entrys. Also, there is some information in the 'advancing mosnters' section. For lycanthropes, check at the end of the lycan section, after the ogre were dire whatever.
hogarth 11-26-06, 10:38 AM	Sorry to jump in like this and interrupt whatever the conversation is currently on... Does anyone know where I can find information on the templates? Specifically the Lycanthrope template? I looked around in the SRD, but couldn't find it. With all due respect, Milov http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm Scroll down to the bottom, past the description of the Werewolf & Werewolf Lord for the template description. The heading says "Creating a Lycanthrope".
Maraxus 11-26-06, 12:20 PM	:rofl: 200° for the one who sends me that cat! Now you know why we banned Reincarnation LOL But the cats did not stop there. http://www.ljplus.ru/img/s/v/svetoid/ahom-ru_20060808_617x644_catz.jpg
SauroGrenom 11-26-06, 01:35 PM	There is a new FAQ on the wizards site. It has some interesting things. It affirms the idea that a monk's belt grants a wisdom bonus to AC. There are a few other details as well.
Milov 11-26-06, 03:02 PM	Thanks guys. That's quite helpful :D To those posting pictures of cat's who look like old world leaders.... it's creepy :/
Milov 11-26-06, 03:36 PM	Could someone perhaps help me with summat? I would just go ask Zevox, but he's at work, so I can't. According to the CoCo avaliable character races, templates, etc page... Lycanthrope Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature (Base Animal) + Base Race (+0 unless a LA race) +2 (afflicted) or +3 (natural); a lycanthrope’s ECL is calculated: Base Animal HD + Lycanthrope (afflicted or natural) + Class Levels. Example: Natural Human Werewolf Fighter 2 = (Human +0) + (Lycanthrope +3 Inherited) + (Wolf +1) (Fighter +2) = ECL 6 With that, it says the wolf has a base animal HD of 1... Well, in it's monster listing, it says that a wolf's HD is 2d8+4. Now doesn't that make it's base HD at two? Or am I just reading this wrong? Sorry bout' all these questions, by the way. I get confused quite easily... EDIT: Sorry bout' the double post. I forgot I posted up there... >_<
Gonbow 11-26-06, 03:49 PM	Could someone perhaps help me with summat? I would just go ask Zevox, but he's at work, so I can't. According to the CoCo avaliable character races, templates, etc page... With that, it says the wolf has a base animal HD of 1... Well, in it's monster listing, it says that a wolf's HD is 2d8+4. Now doesn't that make it's base HD at two? Or am I just reading this wrong? Sorry bout' all these questions, by the way. I get confused quite easily... EDIT: Sorry bout' the double post. I forgot I posted up there... >_< That's a typo. Wolves have 2 hitdice and werewolves have to take 2 hitdice of animal, as per the SRD.
hogarth 11-26-06, 04:29 PM	There is a new FAQ on the wizards site. It has some interesting things. It affirms the idea that a monk's belt grants a wisdom bonus to AC. There are a few other details as well. I've been reading through the FAQ and it cleared up a few questions. Last week, there was some discussion whether a bow counted as a two-handed weapon or not. Zevox and McJarvis commented thusly: While requiring two hands, a Bow is not even classified as a "Two handed weapon", so it gains no +4 bonus. At least, that's my take on it I agree with that assessment. A two-handed weapon is one listed in the "two-handed weapons" section of the weapon lists. You can wield any weapon in two hands, and most ranged weapons require it, but only those that are actully listed as two-handed will get the benefit of that for things like disarm, sunder, etc. Zevox However, the FAQ disagrees: You can get a host of benefits from wielding a two-handed weapon, such as 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage (and twice your damage bonus from the Power Attack feat) and a +4 bonus on your opposed attack roll if someone tries to disarm you. So when is a weapon “two-handed?” For example, a lance is a two-handed weapon, right? But you can wield it in one hand when you’re mounted. Since the weapons table shows that a lance is a two-handed weapon, I get all the two-handed benefits no matter how I wield the lance, right? Wrong. Table 7–5 in the Player’s Handbook lists weapons as light, one-handed, or two-handed strictly as a matter of convenience. These size categories are always relative to the wielder’s size, as explained in some detail in the section on weapon size on page 113 in the Player’s Handbook (also see next question). When the combat rules speak of “two-handed” weapons, they’re referring to how the weapon is being used. A Medium character using a Medium longsword in two hands is using a “two-handed” weapon. The same character using a Medium lance in one hand while mounted is using a one-handed weapon. Light weapons are an exception. If you wield a light weapon in two hands you get no advantage on damage (see page 113 in the Player’s Handbook). Likewise, you always take a –4 penalty on your opposed roll when you’re wielding a light weapon in a disarm attempt (when someone tries to disarm you or you try to disarm someone) regardless of whether you wield it one- or two-handed. Of course, the weapon in question was a bow, so that probably qualifies as using a weapon in one hand anyways. Additionally, in the Noko vs. Sunstroke fight, my interpretation of the rules was that if gladiator A had made a successful Hide check, then gladiator B would lose his Dex bonus to AC and could not Deflect Arrows. The FAQ clarifies that this requires a Hide check at -20, which was MindWandererB's interpretation. Sorry, MWB -- I was wrong. 1. The character begins his turn hidden (as long as he’s in natural terrain, he doesn’t even need cover or concealment). 2. He moves up to a foe across natural terrain and makes an attack (making a Hide check with a –20 penalty to be considered hiding when he attacks).
Maraxus 11-26-06, 07:39 PM	(...) Additionally, in the Noko vs. Sunstroke fight, my interpretation of the rules was that if gladiator A had made a successful Hide check, then gladiator B would lose his Dex bonus to AC and could not Deflect Arrows. The FAQ clarifies that this requires a Hide check at -20, which was MindWandererB's interpretation. Sorry, MWB -- I was wrong. 1. The character begins his turn hidden (as long as he’s in natural terrain, he doesn’t even need cover or concealment). 2. He moves up to a foe across natural terrain and makes an attack (making a Hide check with a –20 penalty to be considered hiding when he attacks). You should also say, the answer to which question you are quoting. It's: "Can a character with spring attack who begins her turn hidden move up to a foe, attack him, then return to a position of hiding? Is she considered hiding (that is invisible to the foe) when making the attack? What is, if the character has the camoflage or hide in plain sight class feature?" This answer sais nothing about ranged attacks, it only sais, how a combination of Spring attack, camoflage and hide in plain sight works. Unrelated: Damn, 3 player Hunter in the forest is horrible. Undergrows almost everywhere means concealment for everybody and so almost no auto-spots. I'd prefere to pitlord 6 fighters locked into a small, featureless cage! :rolleyes: If the combatants read this: Sorry, I will have to finish the fight tomorrow, its' going straight towards 2 AM here. :)
Vathelokai 11-26-06, 11:19 PM	Need a quick answer for my fight... In the forest map, if two characters are standing on the opposite sides of light forest (which provides concealment) do they make hide checks, or does one of them have to be in the concealment space. Example http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=forest;a=A,M,21,58,23,4 8,A;b=B,M,28,48,B If B is already hiding, and A moves to this spot, is B still hiding? *EDIT* Never mind, found it. To determine whether your target has concealment from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that provides concealment, the target has concealment.
Papapeperoni 11-27-06, 05:10 AM	Don't know if anyone missed me, but I'm back! :cheer: First of all, my sincere apologies to the people whose fights I have not run. Real-life situations got in the way. If possible, I'd like to pick up my 1 fight per week, and in a SoE, I'll do 2. All my characters will be forfeited and I'll post my very first spellcaster here on the CoCo! Again, apologies to the people I didn't run. Edit: Alexander Mael is up! My first spellcaster around here. Greetings, --Papapeperoni
Abyssal Stalker 11-27-06, 08:49 AM	Reporters wanted! If someone is interested, I have some topics to write on to the GW. You might even get a shiny credit, unless the writing is crappy :) PM me if you are interested!
Hrothmund 11-27-06, 12:17 PM	My first fight has been posted, and I want to make sure that I get the steps right for preparing him for his second fight. He will be in the 2nd fight of his cycle so I can edit my character but only to add xp and gp and mark any items as used. Is this right? My opponent is not challenging any PL decisions in the fight so I can do the editting right away or do I need to wait for a specific time at which I can edit my character?
hogarth 11-27-06, 12:57 PM	My first fight has been posted, and I want to make sure that I get the steps right for preparing him for his second fight. He will be in the 2nd fight of his cycle so I can edit my character but only to add xp and gp and mark any items as used. Is this right? My opponent is not challenging any PL decisions in the fight so I can do the editting right away or do I need to wait for a specific time at which I can edit my character? Once your fight has been posted, you may edit your sheet. You are only proscribed from editing your sheet before the fight has been posted.
Hrothmund 11-27-06, 01:07 PM	One more question for you guys: A medium tall humanoid with a weapon with 10' reach is enlarged to size large. His reach is now 20', yes or no. I know that this is how this situation is dealt with in living greyhawk, but I don't know how it is dealt with in Gladius. Thanks
MindWandererB 11-27-06, 01:22 PM	One more question for you guys: A medium tall humanoid with a weapon with 10' reach is enlarged to size large. His reach is now 20', yes or no. I know that this is how this situation is dealt with in living greyhawk, but I don't know how it is dealt with in Gladius. Thanks Correct. If it's not a spiked chain, he can hit opponents 15-20 feet away.
hogarth 11-27-06, 01:30 PM	Correct. If it's not a spiked chain, he can hit opponents 15-20 feet away. I don't know if we ever got a definitive ruling on what happens when a creature with reach uses a whip, though. 25' reach? 30' reach? (In theory this could affect my character Kilpquabjeg since she has a whip and a scroll of Alter Self [Choker]. On horseback I figure she should be able to cover a surprisingly large area...)
MindWandererB 11-27-06, 02:01 PM	Well, the text says, "Most reach double the wielder’s natural reach..." which suggests that the mechanic is multiplication. A whip would therefore triple the character's natural reach. Which is sort of silly in the case of a choker, but that appears to be the rule.
Gonbow 11-27-06, 02:12 PM	Keep in mind, a whip is not a reach weapon. It is a hand-held ranged weapon. So for range, 30' sounds fine, but you won't be threatening most of those spaces.
hogarth 11-27-06, 02:13 PM	Keep in mind, a whip is not a reach weapon. It is a hand-held ranged weapon. So for range, 30' sounds fine, but you won't be threatening most of those spaces. From the description of the whip in the 3.5 SRD: The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don't threaten the area into which you can make an attack.
MindWandererB 11-27-06, 02:14 PM	Keep in mind, a whip is not a reach weapon. It is a hand-held ranged weapon. So for range, 30' sounds fine, but you won't be threatening most of those spaces. This was the way whips were handled in 3.0. No more Rapid Shot whips!
Gonbow 11-27-06, 03:35 PM	Awww. Rapid Shot whips were cool! Completely pointless, but still cool. So what are they good for now, ranged disarms & trips? Pfft. (Well, disarming someone AND tripping them in the same round sounds like a fun time, actually.)
SauroGrenom 11-27-06, 06:34 PM	I'm realy looking forward to the opening of higher leagues. Not so much for the iron man tournament but just to level my characters again. My character Raskos is now at the tipping point in his development where all future levels will have a combined CL + ML higher than his ECL. The next few levels should be where the diversity of effects he can bring into play realy pays off. This character always has been and probably always will be a questing character for the most part. So I'm thinking about his development into the next few levels. I've settled on two major options for feat choices. 1) Take spell penetration and greater spell penetration. Reasons: This character fights lots of monsters, and it realy looks like many of them have good SR at his current level and in the future. Since he is a caster and he is 5 CL down due to the template and multiclassing, it becomes a real problem to do anything against creatures with SR. The nice thing about these feats is that they automaticially apply against all creatures with SR, no need to prepare spell at a higher level (meta magic), no need to cast spells from a particular school (spell focus). 2) Take Empower Spell Like Ability and Quicken Spell Like Ability for Mind Thrust. Reasons: Most of the Phrenic powers are defensive or very limited in their utility. The three notable exceptions are Mind Thrust, Energy Current and Psychic Crush. Mind Thrust is the only offensive ablitlity that can be used more than 1/day. The mind thrust phrenic ability doesn't get used very much in mide levels due to its short range, but with a serious damage boost, and with a free action to activate the ability, I can see it getting lots more use with devastating effect. Mind Thrust is mind effecting so it won't effect undead, constructs or plants, but it is a tremendous damage dealer, and the save DC is good and keeps going up. At some later time, Raskos could invest in a Psionatrix and improve his cloak of charisma and perhaps take the Ability Focus feat to further improve the save DC on this abilility. So I'm wondering what other experienced players might think. What would you go for with this character?
MindWandererB 11-27-06, 06:51 PM	So I'm wondering what other experienced players might think. What would you go for with this character?I'm not all that experienced, especially at higher levels, so take this with a grain of salt. A feat for an extra bit of damage once per fight (up to 7.5d10-ish, or around 41 points on a failed save) is pretty decent, although it's a bad choice against good Will saves, and the mindless, although it's one of your better choices against foes with SR. On the other hand... does Spell Penetration work with psionics? I don't know how the transparency works, since Power Penetration is a different feat. If it does work, than that's pretty reasonable (don't forget PCs with SR, via template or spell), but if not, it's not so great. It may be better to focus on no-SR spells and powers for those situations, since your chance of beating SR is still pretty horrible.
SauroGrenom 11-27-06, 07:00 PM	I was under the impression that spell penetratio wouldn't cross over to give a bonus on powers attemting to penetrate SR. I may be wrong, and if so then that realy imroves the utility of those feats for Raskos. Thanks for the comments.
Scribelords 11-28-06, 12:36 AM	This months Writing Contest has concluded. Congratulations to Iced for this month's winning story, "Kelvemor's Bidding". Iced is awarded 3 credits, and his story has been added to the Tales of Gladius. The next Writing Contest shall be postponed for finals and the holidays, but expect it again next year.
Vathelokai 11-28-06, 12:47 AM	I was under the impression that spell penetratio wouldn't cross over to give a bonus on powers attemting to penetrate SR. I may be wrong, and if so then that realy imroves the utility of those feats for Raskos. Thanks for the comments. You get a +2 bonus on caster level checks (1d20 + caster level) made to overcome a creature’s spell resistance. To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. You get a +4 bonus on manifester level checks made to overcome a creature’s power resistance. Though not explicitly called out in the spell descriptions or magic item descriptions, spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items that could potentially affect psionics do affect psionics. When the rule about psionics-magic transparency is in effect, it has the following ramifications: Spell resistance is effective against powers, using the same mechanics. Likewise, power resistance is effective against spells, using the same mechanics as spell resistance. If a creature has one kind of resistance, it is assumed to have the other. (The effects have similar ends despite having been brought about by different means.) All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa. The spell detect magic detects powers, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Psicraft check is necessary to identify the discipline of the psionic aura). Dead magic areas are also dead psionics areas. So, that's a no. Spell penetration dosn't effect psionics. I'd recommend the quickened mind thrust.
MindWandererB 11-28-06, 01:34 AM	So, that's a no. Spell penetration dosn't effect psionics. I'd recommend the quickened mind thrust. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I don't follow the logic of that argument. Are you saying that because caster level checks and manifester level checks aren't specifically mentioned in the "transparency" section, that they don't fall under the same rule?
Ravashack 11-28-06, 03:27 AM	I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I don't follow the logic of that argument. Are you saying that because caster level checks and manifester level checks aren't specifically mentioned in the "transparency" section, that they don't fall under the same rule? Well, the fact that there are two specifically different feats covering the mechanics seems to imply by its very existence that no, something that increases manifester level checks doesn't work on caster level checks and vice versa. To be honest, I think the main source of confusion is that people assume transparency means that anything that says magic or spell can be replaced with psi(onic) or power (hence people asking about Use Magic Device applying to psionic devices and vice versa, or assuming ranks in Psicraft is the same as ranks in Spellcraft), and that's not what it says at all. I mean seriously. There is absolutely zero point to having a psionic varient of a feat or skill if it was supposed to be interchangeable in that fashion. Hell, look at the transparency description quoted. You still need a Psicraft check (NOT a Spellcraft one) to identify a psionic aura's discipline, even WITH transparency rules.
Abyssal Stalker 11-28-06, 05:08 AM	OK, my vampire project is almost finished. Activating him will cost a huge pile of credits, so I'd like to hear comments on him before going any further. All feedback and advice is welcome. Jonathon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10390654#post10390654) is about to return.
hogarth 11-28-06, 08:36 AM	OK, my vampire project is almost finished. Activating him will cost a huge pile of credits, so I'd like to hear comments on him before going any further. All feedback and advice is welcome. Jonathon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10390654#post10390654) is about to return. What's "Martial Proficiency (Ranged Weapons)"? I think you need to pick something more specific. Otherwise, I'd take "Martial Proficiency (All Weapons)" instead. ;) Also, Improved Grapple should be your Monk bonus feat and Deflect Arrows should be your 3rd level feat (since the choices for a Monk 1 are Improved Grapple or Stunning Fist).
Erithmu 11-28-06, 08:41 AM	Also, Improved Grapple should be your Monk bonus feat and Deflect Arrows should be your 3rd level feat (since the choices for a Monk 1 are Improved Grapple or Stunning Fist). Except I'm not sure he qualifies for Deflect at his 3HD which would be an undead HD before he has the imp grapple, but I dunno what the basic attack of a Vamp spawn is off the top of my head.
hogarth 11-28-06, 08:44 AM	Except I'm not sure he qualifies for Deflect at his 3HD which would be an undead HD before he has the imp grapple, but I dunno what the basic attack of a Vamp spawn is off the top of my head. It should be fine, I think -- there's no BAB requirement for Deflect Arrows and his natural attack should qualify him in lieu of Improved Unarmed Strike. @Abyssal Stalker: Keep up the good work on the Gladius Weekly. It's quite entertaining!
Abyssal Stalker 11-28-06, 08:49 AM	It's a natural attack (slam). So that would qualify him for deflect arrows, according to the court decisions. I have to change the martial weapon proficiency. I was for some reason thinking about weapon groups, but looks like it needs to be "longbow".
McJarvis 11-28-06, 10:21 AM	As a general note: I think it would be really great if everyone who rides a mount puts under the speed of their character something like this: Speed: 30 ft (Land) 60 ft(Mounted) Otherwise I as a pitlord have to dig down to the bottom of your sheet to see if your riding a light/heavy warhorse & whether it's encumbered or not.
hogarth 11-28-06, 10:30 AM	Does manifesting Energy Wall break an Invisibility spell? I assume so, since it forces a saving throw if a target is close by.
DSugui 11-28-06, 10:47 AM	Does manifesting Energy Wall break an Invisibility spell? I assume so, since it forces a saving throw if a target is close by.Only if there is anyone in the area. I remember reading something like taht in the FAQ.
Zevox 11-28-06, 11:54 AM	As a general note: I think it would be really great if everyone who rides a mount puts under the speed of their character something like this: Speed: 30 ft (Land) 60 ft(Mounted) Otherwise I as a pitlord have to dig down to the bottom of your sheet to see if your riding a light/heavy warhorse & whether it's encumbered or not. I've been doing that for a while now for that exact reason ;) . @ Abyssal - Great work on the weekly man. Keep it up! I'd like to help out, but for the moment school and work are taking too much of my time :( . Zevox
Krytos 11-28-06, 12:29 PM	Hey all, I'm back. Took the last week off for Thanksgiving. Good luck to everyone in the fights this week.
Abyssal Stalker 11-28-06, 12:40 PM	@ Abyssal - Great work on the weekly man. Keep it up! I'd like to help out, but for the moment school and work are taking too much of my time :( . Zevox Thanks! Hope you guys enjoyed the "gladiator of the week". It's actually kinda fun to try to make up some news of the missions and quests. I try to make the arena fights something like the sports pages, I just don't have time to dig through all the fights so I'm going to stick into scratching the surface on them. :ton: (I always wondered where this smiley could be used, but now I know. It's the official reporter smiley.)
McJarvis 11-28-06, 01:45 PM	Ok, here's one for ya'll... Can you ready an action to cast silence 5' to the right of a mage on hearing him cast a spell? (& thus disrupt the spell)?
Abyssal Stalker 11-28-06, 02:13 PM	Ok, here's one for ya'll... Can you ready an action to cast silence 5' to the right of a mage on hearing him cast a spell? (& thus disrupt the spell)? I don't see a reason why this shouldn't work. The readied action happens right before the triggering action, so that would lead into a situation where the spell doesn't work if it has verbal components. I don't know if this would be too effective tactic, though.
Guildmaster_LOY 11-28-06, 02:16 PM	I don't see a reason why this shouldn't work. The readied action happens right before the triggering action, so that would lead into a situation where the spell doesn't work if it has verbal components. I don't know if this would be too effective tactic, though. It's better than counterspelling with dispel magic.(assuming the spell in question has verbal components)
hogarth 11-28-06, 03:36 PM	Would anyone be willing to run an EL 1 miniquest for Treetall Oakleg? He needs just 50 xp to go up another level; I've been neglecting him for a while and I'd like to remedy that problem.
Hrothmund 11-28-06, 03:37 PM	Here is my new character Bazili Stasha. Tell me what you think of the psionic bruiser so I can have him legal for pairings. Thanks
MindWandererB 11-28-06, 05:14 PM	Here is my new character Bazili Stasha. Tell me what you think of the psionic bruiser so I can have him legal for pairings. Thanks My opinions: Weapon Focus? Surely there's something better you can choose. I generally prefer Psicrystal Affinity to Narrow Mind. If you choose a Single-Minded crystal, it's a +3 bonus to all Concentration checks, as opposed to a +4 on just ones to regain focus. I keep wanting to take Bite of the Wolf, but I always find other things. I look forward to seeing how that works for you. Deep Crystal items are masterwork by default. You save 300 bucks. Power Stones of Empty Mind are useless, since they take a standard action to activate and only last a round. Same thing goes for Grip of Iron, and for unaugmented Expansion.
hogarth 11-28-06, 05:22 PM	Weapon Focus? Surely there's something better you can choose. Not to mention that he can't take it at level 1 since it requires +1 BAB.
McJarvis 11-28-06, 05:26 PM	Can you snipe with magic missile? o_O How softly can you whisper wand command words?
MindWandererB 11-28-06, 05:36 PM	Can you snipe with magic missile? o_O How softly can you whisper wand command words? Aargh. Hiding after a ranged attack is a move action. So yes, you can snipe with it. We have no rules for whispering, as odd as that may sound. Command words are thus the same as verbal spell components, i.e. DC 0.
Gonbow 11-28-06, 05:49 PM	Much better than sniping with Magic Missiles; Sniping with Ego Whips or Energy Rays ^_^. Since there is no pesky 'sound' issue. Or get a custom thought-activated item that casts the spell for you. Either way.
Sutro 11-28-06, 06:32 PM	Not to mention that he can't take it at level 1 since it requires +1 BAB. Meh, just a clerical error; he could fix it by swapping it with psionic body at 2nd. I don't see why everyone gets so down on Weapon Focus. It's more than a +1 to hit; it puts you a shade further ahead of the level/AC ratio and can often increase the times you hit in a fight (depending on how long it goes and how high the opponent's AC is) by between 15 and 30 percent. In CoCo I would see it more useful for a ranged weapon since there's rarely any long, extended melees for its advantage to really come out, but I think it's still a perfectly viable option.
Hrothmund 11-28-06, 08:19 PM	Thanks for the critiques, guys. As to Weapon Focus I will just shift it later in my feats. I am a big believer in WF especially in a situation with 3/4 BAB. Is Psycrystal Affinity a psionic feat or a general feat? I really want to squeeze the most juice out of Psionic Body. Normally I would agree with you. My spellcasters always take Skill Focus Concentration instead of Combat Casting. I can change feats for free as long as the character is still 3rd level, right? As to power stones is activation always at least a standard action even if the spell's normal casting time is a swift or immediate action? If so I need to change out those stones. Thanks again
Zevox 11-28-06, 08:31 PM	Is Psycrystal Affinity a psionic feat or a general feat? I really want to squeeze the most juice out of Psionic Body. Psionic it is - works perfectly with Psionic Body. I can change feats for free as long as the character is still 3rd level, right? Not necessarily, but certainly before the first time you activate him you can change whatever you like (hes still considered under construction until then). After that it may depend on how big the change is whether you can get it for free. As to power stones is activation always at least a standard action even if the spell's normal casting time is a swift or immediate action? If so I need to change out those stones. Yup, I'm fairly sure thats the case. Its either in the FAQ or the Court Decisions hereabouts, I think. Zevox
McJarvis 11-28-06, 09:12 PM	Much better than sniping with Magic Missiles; Sniping with Ego Whips or Energy Rays ^_^. Since there is no pesky 'sound' issue. Or get a custom thought-activated item that casts the spell for you. Either way. What is the pricing on thought-activated items? I can not find a reference in the SRD to thought-activation...(Use activated?)
hogarth 11-28-06, 09:16 PM	What is the pricing on thought-activated items? I can not find a reference in the SRD to thought-activation...(Use activated?) Psionic items have a "command thought" not a command word. The pricing seems to be the same.
McJarvis 11-28-06, 09:19 PM	Psionic items have a "command thought" not a command word. The pricing seems to be the same. He seemed to imply it was possible with spell-based items as well, is why I asked.
MindWandererB 11-28-06, 09:27 PM	He seemed to imply it was possible with spell-based items as well, is why I asked. This might have to go to the Oracle, since I, for one, strongly object to non-psionic items with command thoughts.
McJarvis 11-28-06, 09:29 PM	This might have to go to the Oracle, since I, for one, strongly object to non-psionic items with command thoughts. If there are no current CoCo or SRD rules entailing the creation of command-thought spell items, I have no intention of arguing for them. My inquiries are merely to ascertain whether they exist yet-> which they apparently do not. :) edit-> Though there are rules for whispering...it's a DC 15 listen check to hear someone whispering. The spell trigger section of the SRD specifically says you are not completing the spell in any sort of way, so whispering the word should be fine.(it isn't spell casting) I'll post this one in the oracle:)
Zelck 11-28-06, 09:40 PM	@Zevox: Can you change the rewards for this fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10669211&postcount=253)? You forgot to factor in Dronnar's ally penalty. The correct rewards can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10735309&postcount=283).
Vathelokai 11-28-06, 09:44 PM	This might have to go to the Oracle, since I, for one, strongly object to non-psionic items with command thoughts. Well, my question is can you use metamagic to remove all components from a spell? Can you memorize a silent truestrike? If so, then why can't you make a scroll of it; or an amulet of it (lets pretend truestrike isn't so offensive, for this arguement; I'm only using it because it only has a V component). Now Wands, I can see banning that; the item description specificly says it has a verbal trigger, but other items don't do that. A metamagiced componentless spell is effectively a commmand thought spell.
Zevox 11-28-06, 09:55 PM	@Zevox: Can you change the rewards for this fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10669211&postcount=253)? You forgot to factor in Dronnar's ally penalty. The correct rewards can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10735309&postcount=283). Done. Zevox
MindWandererB 11-28-06, 09:55 PM	Well, my question is can you use metamagic to remove all components from a spell? Can you memorize a silent truestrike? If so, then why can't you make a scroll of it; or an amulet of it (lets pretend truestrike isn't so offensive, for this arguement; I'm only using it because it only has a V component). Now Wands, I can see banning that; the item description specificly says it has a verbal trigger, but other items don't do that. A metamagiced componentless spell is effectively a commmand thought spell. I think I agree with you completely. A completely component-free scroll should be possible. A wondrous item would have to be "use-activated" instead of "command word," but should still be fine.
Vathelokai 11-28-06, 11:56 PM	You may pay credits to get the right to buy Custom Spell Trigger Items. For wands, dorjes, psicrowns, staffs, etc you have to pay 5° per CL above your ECLOuch! When did that happen?
NiQil 11-29-06, 12:03 AM	Ouch! When did that happen? Probably when everyone starting buying custom wands of everything under the sun and custom dorjes of vigor at an ml so high it was giving you more hp than your character has normally... I personally like that rule...I am a very big detractor of the whole credits=custom items thing...just rubs me the wrong way.
Zevox 11-29-06, 12:06 AM	Ouch! When did that happen? Um, quite a while ago. After Macbrea's Mektos proved that lower-level characters with CL 9 Magic Missile Wands were rather overpowering, it was decided to add charged items to the "CL/ML no higher than your ECL without credits" rule. That was shortly after I joined, come to think of it (maybe a couple of months thereafter) - how'd you manage to miss it for this long? Edit: Wait, just noticed that was 5 per CL above your ECL now - ouch, yeah, thats new. Seems like overkill if you ask me... Zevox
Vathelokai 11-29-06, 12:28 AM	Question: can you audit your own character and recieve credits?
Guildmaster_LOY 11-29-06, 12:30 AM	Question: can you audit your own character and recieve credits? I'd imagine not. If Yes-> I'm going to get alot of credits(since I audit every new character I make)
NiQil 11-29-06, 08:06 AM	Question: can you audit your own character and recieve credits? No, just like you don't get credits for reporting violations on your own characters.
hogarth 11-29-06, 08:40 AM	Would anyone be willing to run an EL 1 miniquest for Treetall Oakleg? He needs just 50 xp to go up another level; I've been neglecting him for a while and I'd like to remedy that problem. Is anyone willing to run this Miniquest? If not, I'll just hope it gets assigned a Questlord during the pairings.
renlim 11-29-06, 08:21 PM	Hey, I PM'ed Cat about not having a Holy Symbol and if I could buy one during my 3fc since it was a mistake and not intentional. He hasn't responded yet and the way things sound around here, he won't before my tactics are due. Can I get an Elder to address this?
Zelck 11-29-06, 10:11 PM	Done. Zevox Many thanks :).
Vathelokai 11-29-06, 10:13 PM	Hey, I PM'ed Cat about not having a Holy Symbol and if I could buy one during my 3fc since it was a mistake and not intentional. He hasn't responded yet and the way things sound around here, he won't before my tactics are due. Can I get an Elder to address this? In a previous fight I had against the Harvester, Cat had the same problem. I allowed him to cast spells as though he had a holy symbol for that fight, then the Harvester 'purchased' one in the middle of his cycle after the fight. I can't imagine Caterane/Elders would feel a need to go against Cat's example. Just don't edit the sheet; send a note to your opponent and your pitlord saying what's going on.
McJarvis 11-29-06, 10:16 PM	In a previous fight I had against the Harvester, Cat had the same problem. I allowed him to cast spells as though he had a holy symbol for that fight, then the Harvester 'purchased' one in the middle of his cycle after the fight. I can't imagine Caterane/Elders would feel a need to go against Cat's example. Just don't edit the sheet; send a note to your opponent and your pitlord saying what's going on. damn...and here I was hoping to utterly screw him over ;)
Abyssal Stalker 11-30-06, 08:18 AM	Can NPC spellcasting service be used before every fight, or only before the first fight of the cycle? I assume that before every fight and then they are subject to the time roll, but is this correct? Can I get a wand of inflict light wounds? That would be my vampire's healing wand that can be used offensively if need be. :)
Vathelokai 11-30-06, 08:50 AM	Can NPC spellcasting service be used before every fight, or only before the first fight of the cycle? I assume that before every fight and then they are subject to the time roll, but is this correct? Can I get a wand of inflict light wounds? That would be my vampire's healing wand that can be used offensively if need be. :) You can only buy NPC casting before the cycle. Sure you can get a wand of inflict; but it'll be 5 credits unless you want the wand of inflict critical for 21,000.
Abyssal Stalker 11-30-06, 09:13 AM	You can only buy NPC casting before the cycle. Sure you can get a wand of inflict; but it'll be 5 credits unless you want the wand of inflict critical for 21,000. Oh, non-listed wands cost credits too? Hmm, don't want to sink anymore credits into that monsrosity at the moment, maybe later. I'm not sure if everybody has paid the necessary credits for their custom wands. I should start checking, but I'm too lazy for that. Thanks anyway!
hogarth 11-30-06, 09:13 AM	Suppose Archibald Alewife has a psion Leadership cohort and a dragon Diplomacy ally. For the first two fights in his cycle, Archibald brings his pet dragon, but for the third he decides to brings the psion cohort. Can his cohort use all of her power points since it's the third fight of Archibald's cycle? Cohorts don't have their own cycle, do they?
Abyssal Stalker 11-30-06, 09:21 AM	According to current rules, probably yes. But, what you are suggesting is rules abuse (nothing wrong with that, it's not your fault if the rules allow that :)) and will probably be limited in some way. The simplest solution would be to create their own cycle, that follows the main character's cycle so that every fight the cohort has been in counts but his cycle starts always from the beginning when the main character's cycle begins.
Vathelokai 11-30-06, 09:27 AM	According to current rules, probably yes. But, what you are suggesting is rules abuse (nothing wrong with that, it's not your fault if the rules allow that :)) and will probably be limited in some way. The simplest solution would be to create their own cycle, that follows the main character's cycle so that every fight the cohort has been in counts but his cycle starts always from the beginning when the main character's cycle begins. I'm pretty sure they follow the 1/3rd rule, but I'm not 100% about that.
hogarth 11-30-06, 09:28 AM	According to current rules, probably yes. But, what you are suggesting is rules abuse (nothing wrong with that, it's not your fault if the rules allow that :)) and will probably be limited in some way. The simplest solution would be to create their own cycle, that follows the main character's cycle so that every fight the cohort has been in counts but his cycle starts always from the beginning when the main character's cycle begins. Abusing dubious CoCo rules is what Reginald...er...I mean Archibald is all about. I agree that enforcing a separate cycle for cohorts would improve things, but it sounds logistically complicated. Actually, I think the 1/3 Rule for spellcasters is a little silly. It prevents a gladiator from "going nova" in the first battle and having nothing left for the remaining two battles, but it does nothing to prevent using nothing in the first two battles and "going nova" in the third. I don't even know if that's something that needs to be prevented in the first place.
Vathelokai 11-30-06, 09:28 AM	Oh, non-listed wands cost credits too? Hmm, don't want to sink anymore credits into that monsrosity at the moment, maybe later. I'm not sure if everybody has paid the necessary credits for their custom wands. I should start checking, but I'm too lazy for that. Thanks anyway! I'd read over the second post of the blackmarket. I reread it a couple days ago and foud that a few items had been changed without notice.
Vathelokai 11-30-06, 09:29 AM	@McJarvis: Check your Loy mail about that map. I'm itching to get started.
Abyssal Stalker 11-30-06, 09:37 AM	I don't think that would be too complicated - when you edit your cohort, you would just need to add the number of fights he's been to. My explanation probably was more complicated than the system itself would be. :) Yeah, you're right about that "going nova". It happens backwards occasionally (just take a look at Little Daisy this week). I was against that rule in the first place when the 3FC was created, because that's what the 3FC was originally about - to get rid of the 1/3 rule. Instead of 1/3 we got 3/1. ;) Not that I wouldn't like the 3FC, I think it's working nice and it definitely has improved things.
Krytos 11-30-06, 10:30 AM	Question: Does Deflect Arrows work again the balls of fire you can throw with Produce Flame? Flames as bright as a torch appear in your open hand. The flames harm neither you nor your equipment. In addition to providing illumination, the flames can be hurled or used to touch enemies. You can strike an opponent with a melee touch attack, dealing fire damage equal to 1d6 +1 point per caster level (maximum +5). Alternatively, you can hurl the flames up to 120 feet as a thrown weapon. When doing so, you attack with a ranged touch attack (with no range penalty) and deal the same damage as with the melee attack. No sooner do you hurl the flames than a new set appears in your hand. Each attack you make reduces the remaining duration by 1 minute. If an attack reduces the remaining duration to 0 minutes or less, the spell ends after the attack resolves. This spell does not function underwater. You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat. Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flatfooted. Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn’t count as an action. Unusually massive ranged weapons and ranged attacks generated by spell effects can’t be deflected.
McJarvis 11-30-06, 10:33 AM	ranged attacks generated by spell effects can’t be deflected. :)
Krytos 11-30-06, 10:50 AM	Yea, so I can't read....
McJarvis 11-30-06, 10:52 AM	Yea, so I can't read.... I've never held it against you before :)
Hirumajoe 11-30-06, 11:13 AM	Abusing dubious CoCo rules is what Reginald...er...I mean Archibald is all about. I agree that enforcing a separate cycle for cohorts would improve things, but it sounds logistically complicated. Actually, I think the 1/3 Rule for spellcasters is a little silly. It prevents a gladiator from "going nova" in the first battle and having nothing left for the remaining two battles, but it does nothing to prevent using nothing in the first two battles and "going nova" in the third. I don't even know if that's something that needs to be prevented in the first place. Well first off, as a caster, if you use no power points or spells in your first two fights, you're most likely going to lose them. So your advancement rate is 2 losses for each win. Which is less than a 50/50 record assuming your character is average. Although the real main difference between no 1/3 rule and having the 1/3 rule is information. You don't know what you'll be getting in your third fight, but you do know what you're fighting in the first fight when you have the option to Nova. Noving isn't guaranteed to win you the third fight (although it helps *alot*). Having the choice to use all your points in the first fight, or the second or the third is obviously more flexible. You also can tailor the amount of outburst in each fight, where as in the 1/3 cycle, you don't know how much exactly you should reserve.
Abyssal Stalker 11-30-06, 11:33 AM	What happens when a caster shares a spell with his familiar and their actions involve movement. Shared spells stop affecting the familiar if they get more than 5ft apart from eachother. This basically makes moving impossible due to the turn-based system. The way I would rule this with DM-sense is that their lines of movement must be no more than 5ft apart from eachother and they must begin and end their turns no more than 5ft apart. Because; the turn-based system is artficial, things in the same round are supposed to happen simultaneously. Does anyone know if this is covered by the rules somewhere, perhaps the RotG articles?
TelinArtho 11-30-06, 11:41 AM	In general - I do as you indicate there - if they stay within 5ft of their respective movement lines - then I consider it still shared. If they move apart during that time it ends. The only other way to handle it is if one is mounted on the other (druid on a horse, paladin on a special mount, etc). Of course, that's not the situation you are dealing with...
McJarvis 11-30-06, 12:31 PM	I'm done busying up the council thread with Poe talk :) I thought about using Stinking Cloud for a brief second-> but then I noticed that the spell affects living creatures, which includes Poe. It has no language that says you have to breath the vapors to become nauseated. Is this accurate?
SauroGrenom 11-30-06, 01:13 PM	McJarvis, Remind me to never pitlord another fight for Poe. I like fights that are over in 10 rounds or less. Those tactics that are all about delay, hide, heal, attack once every 5 rounds only when you can move into perfect position and make 5 skill checks for every attack roll... Tactics like that drive me nuts. It's slow, booring, time consuming, and tiresome to run those fights. Ugh.
McJarvis 11-30-06, 01:14 PM	McJarvis, Remind me to never pitlord another fight for Poe. I like fights that are over in 10 rounds or less. Those tactics that are all about delay, hide, heal, attack once every 5 rounds only when you can move into perfect position and make 5 skill checks for every attack roll... Tactics like that drive me nuts. It's slow, booring, time consuming, and tiresome to run those fights. Ugh. Ideally I like to think Pitlords will just skip the intermediary steps and just assume Poe always attacks in optimal position :-) It's my job to be thorough enough so that they can safely make that assumption. edit-> If it is any consolation, I hereby promise that Mort and Poe are the only sneaky builds I'll ever construct.
Zevox 11-30-06, 01:20 PM	McJarvis, Remind me to never pitlord another fight for Poe. I like fights that are over in 10 rounds or less. Those tactics that are all about delay, hide, heal, attack once every 5 rounds only when you can move into perfect position and make 5 skill checks for every attack roll... Tactics like that drive me nuts. It's slow, booring, time consuming, and tiresome to run those fights. Ugh. Zero all over again eh? *sigh* This is one reason why my snipers are also pretty competant at something else - Featylec is a fair warrior and archer in his own right, and Eraca is a wonderful archer and spellcaster (in fact, sniping is secondary for her). No need to drive the pitlord insane with the hiding that way when another tactic can be combined with it. Zevox
McJarvis 11-30-06, 01:22 PM	Zero all over again eh? *sigh* This is one reason why my snipers are also pretty competant at something else - Featylec is a fair warrior and archer in his own right, and Eraca is a wonderful archer and spellcaster (in fact, sniping is secondary for her). No need to drive the pitlord insane with the hiding that way when another tactic can be combined with it. Zevox Well, I do do that...just I view sniping as #1 priority for a sniping character, and all other things #2. Hence why I totally re-structured Mort so she wasn't "just" a psiwar/rogue that sniped in deeper darkness all day long. If it makes you guys feel any better, I won't be pulling a "just hit him with a sling until he dies" strat for a long while. I learned my lesson :(
hogarth 11-30-06, 01:26 PM	Remind me to never pitlord another fight for Poe. I like fights that are over in 10 rounds or less. Those tactics that are all about delay, hide, heal, attack once every 5 rounds only when you can move into perfect position and make 5 skill checks for every attack roll... Tactics like that drive me nuts. It's slow, booring, time consuming, and tiresome to run those fights. Ugh. That's why I had my name removed from the Active Pitlords list. This way, if extra pitlords are needed I can volunteer to take a fight (or two) of my choosing (i.e. not a "nyah, nyah, you can't hit me!" fight) instead of getting saddled with one that will likely take 50+ rounds to run.
McJarvis 11-30-06, 01:39 PM	@Sauro: I just happened to read over something that was one of the things that led me to believe that "descriptive" text is actually "flavor text" & is not binding: The first thing you're likely to note is a descriptive passage in italics. This serves much the same purpose as the italicized descriptions in the Monster Manual.....The descriptive passage shouldn't be considered binding rules.
McJarvis 11-30-06, 02:03 PM	@All: Not sure how long this has been around, but it looks like it could be incredibly useful for Pitlords. Official D&D Glossary (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd)
SauroGrenom 11-30-06, 02:59 PM	@Sauro: I just happened to read over something that was one of the things that led me to believe that "descriptive" text is actually "flavor text" & is not binding: True, but it set's a context which the following details apply. Psicrystals cannot refocus a psionic focus that is accessable to their masters. All the elders agree with my interpretation.
McJarvis 11-30-06, 03:03 PM	True, but it set's a context which the following details apply. Psicrystals cannot refocus a psionic focus that is accessable to their masters. All the elders agree with my interpretation. Heh..I'm not even talking about the psi-crystal thing anymore..I'm just showing an example of how the text says that the flavor text is not legaly binding at all. It even goes on to show a few examples where the text says one thing, but the spells are not limited to just that one thing. Understanding this rule is pretty important since it can potentially impact many decisions here. this should apply to that other ruling it came up on a few days ago as well....but I forget what it is. =\
SauroGrenom 11-30-06, 03:08 PM	That other ruling was about the scope of effects caused by the psionic hole feat. In that case, the general description wasn't necessary to answer the question. Powerstone and Dorje's don't use pp when having thier effect. So increasing the pp cost is irrelevant.
McJarvis 11-30-06, 04:30 PM	When you are wearing armor spikes & pin an opponet, do the armor spikes automatically do damage to your opponent on the pin, or just when you use a grapple action to damage your opponent?
Zevox 11-30-06, 04:33 PM	When you are wearing armor spikes & pin an opponet, do the armor spikes automatically do damage to your opponent on the pin, or just when you use a grapple action to damage your opponent? Just when using a grapple action for damage. Zevox
SauroGrenom 11-30-06, 04:40 PM	You don't damage someone untill you use a grapple action to do so. The action spent trying to pin the opponent doesn't count.
spasheridan 11-30-06, 07:25 PM	so I'm reactivating an old PC of mine - he's a Thrallherd. I have a few questions regarding allies and thralls. My understanding of thralls is that you can always take it into the fight with you - even though your thrall is almost gaurenteed to be your level -1. Can you still take your Psicrystal with you into the fight? If you gained a bunch of followers - can they come in with you as well? Can you set your followers to other actions - say having them do full time actions like crafting or gathering info to get magic items without credit costs? Can you have an ally like your pet dog to do a guard free action to stop folks from burglaring you? Also – for those of you who’ve been around for a while – my PC’s are old. They’re from pre-expendable cap days. Do I just stick the excess expendables in my home equipment pile or can I sell them back for cost? Can I give my allies expendable items? DO these fall under my expendable item cap or do they have their own – even though I pay for it. Going back to the thralls – how do I create them? 25 pt build, anything I want at the appropriate CL, paying credits if I want them to be a special race. What about gear – do they come with anything or just some clothes? Finally – my thrallherd was on a quest when I dropped out of the COCO – I never got back online to officially end the quest or anything like that. Can I restart that quest, continue from where it is – do I get XP / Loot from the 1 encounter I did? I want to update his sheet & get him legal with the new character sheet requirements. I did a search and noticed that he's the only Thrallherd in the COCO - any reason why no one else uses them? Thanks!
McJarvis 11-30-06, 07:30 PM	Because the thrallherd class was rendered useless( IMO ) when the powers-that-be ruled that the thrall you aquire has to be of your ECL-2 in order to be used & you will never gain the services of your second thrall when you eventually get it. That coupled with losing a manifesting level means taking the leadership feat is a better investment.
c00lz3 11-30-06, 07:36 PM	I was woundering, how much of a cohort or thrall can you customize? I know that the leadership cohort is decided by the DM, mostly. But what are the rules here?
spasheridan 11-30-06, 07:43 PM	Because the thrallherd class was rendered useless( IMO ) when the powers-that-be ruled that the thrall you aquire has to be of your ECL-2 in order to be used & you will never gain the services of your second thrall when you eventually get it. That coupled with losing a manifesting level means taking the leadership feat is a better investment. Here's something I pulled from the rules of gladius on allies: To determine the maximum amount of allies you can bring in (CA) you have to add all allies ECL's (if they have a LA) and CR's (if they do not have a LA), and this sum must not be greater than your ECL-2. Exception: Class allies Class allies are allies that come from a class feature, like a wizard's familiar, a druid or ranger animal companion, or a paladin warhorse. These allies never require a share of xp. Except for thralls and planar cohorts, they do not even count against your maxCA. So - leadership cohorts must follow the ECL -2 limit. Class feature allies do not. At least that seems to be what it is saying to me... edit - on further reading, that comma destroys my argument.
hogarth 11-30-06, 07:48 PM	so I'm reactivating an old PC of mine - he's a Thrallherd. I have a few questions regarding allies and thralls. My understanding of thralls is that you can always take it into the fight with you - even though your thrall is almost gaurenteed to be your level -1. I asked this and was told "no, ECL-2 is the max". Maybe you'll have better luck if you ask in the "Oracle" thread. Can you still take your Psicrystal with you into the fight? Sure; it's treated like a familiar (i.e. it's "free"). If you gained a bunch of followers - can they come in with you as well? I don't see why not, but they would count against your total number of allies. Can you set your followers to other actions - say having them do full time actions like crafting or gathering info to get magic items without credit costs? Can you have an ally like your pet dog to do a guard free action to stop folks from burglaring you? Only gladiators get activities, not allies. Also – for those of you who’ve been around for a while – my PC’s are old. They’re from pre-expendable cap days. Do I just stick the excess expendables in my home equipment pile or can I sell them back for cost? Can I give my allies expendable items? DO these fall under my expendable item cap or do they have their own – even though I pay for it. You sell your excess at cost. You can give your allies items, but AFAIK they also fall under your expendables cap (since they could just hand them back to you). Going back to the thralls – how do I create them? 25 pt build, anything I want at the appropriate CL, paying credits if I want them to be a special race. What about gear – do they come with anything or just some clothes? I got two different answers -- one person told me they come with NPC wealth, and one person told me they come with nothing. Finally – my thrallherd was on a quest when I dropped out of the COCO – I never got back online to officially end the quest or anything like that. Can I restart that quest, continue from where it is – do I get XP / Loot from the 1 encounter I did? I want to update his sheet & get him legal with the new character sheet requirements. Dunno. I did a search and noticed that he's the only Thrallherd in the COCO - any reason why no one else uses them? Thanks! As McJarvis pointed out, we discussed the class and it seemed that it wasn't much better than taking the Leadership feat. Zevox disagreed, but on the other hand he has several characters with Leadership and no Thrallherds. That sent me a mixed message, shall we say. ;)
Vathelokai 11-30-06, 08:01 PM	allies 1 - rules allies 2 - lists Reputation Druids/Rangers receive an animal companion, Paladins receive a special mount, Wizards/Sorcerers receive a familiar, and some Prestige Classes allow for class allies. These class feature allies do not require a share of the character's xp or gold, nor do they count against the ally power limit (see below for details on maximum allies allowed). The exceptions are Planar Cohorts (for Thaumaturgs) and Thralls (for Thrallherds). Both these ally types count against your capacity of how many allies you can bring in; they do, however, not require a share of xp or gold, just like all class allies. Unless otherwise noted the character must go on a Quest to acquire a class ally. Class feature allies use the 25 pt buy to determine ability scores if they have a LA listed (planar cohort, thrall), else, if the ally has no LA (paladin mount, wizard familiar, etc) it uses the abilities presented in their entry, modified by whatever bonus it gets from being a class ally. ... It might of course happen that you have an ally who has class allies on his own, like in case of a druid cohort who has an animal companion, or a thaumaturg's planar cohort might be a thrallherd whose thralls are sorcerers with familiars, and so on. To prevent the creation of a long string of allies, leadership-like class allies (thaumaturg's cohort and thralls) of your class ally do always count against your maxCA (see below). That means, you may use your cohort's class ally but it counts against your limit and might prevent to make use of your own cohort. If the class ally of your ally is a non-ECL creature, it can enter for free and does not count against your limit. ... Firstly, Leadership cohorts do not keep track of XP, and do not use the method of advancement outlined in the PHB. Instead, they are always at the maximum level allowed by your Leadership score (see DMG,p106). For example, if your Leadership score is 17, your cohort would be level 12. You may have your cohort be lower in level than what would be allowed by your Leadership score, if you like; however, you cannot "regress" your cohort in levels. If, for example, your cohort was level 10 at one point, then he may never drop below level 10 from then on. If your Leadership score drops for some reason, and is no longer sufficient for your cohort, then your cohort will not help you in any way until you get your Leadership score back up again. Secondly, Leadership cohorts, like most other cohorts, require a share of your XP and gold (see below). All leadership allies use the 25 pt-buy method to determine ability scores. ... If a cohort or ally dies in one of the various Battles of Gladius (or otherwise inside the Nimbus), it is True Ressurected, re-summoned, re-animated, or otherwise made whole again, for free, after the 3-Fight Cycle is complete. There will be no negative side-effects from losing an ally (eg paladin's mount, familiar). Until then, however, the ally is not available and cannot assist you in any way. He's basically... dead. This is similar outside the Nimbus (Quests, Campaigns) with one exception: if it was a leadership ally, your leadership score drops by 1 for each cohort that died. Why MiniQuests? Two reasons. Not everyone wants to pitlord fights or audit characters to gain credits but that would also mean he could never obtain an animal companion, or take the leadership feat. Leadership: This feat is based on your ECL, not HD. You still need 6 HD to get the feat.
McJarvis 11-30-06, 08:09 PM	I've been reading over the diplomacy rules... Diplomacy allies may only advanced by racial HD, never by class levels. All diplomacy allies come without any equipment. What about the Harpy Archer? It's a top end diplomacy ally, but this diplomacy ally specifically advaced by class levels & comes with equipment as well. (I'd imagine this equipment is a part of the CR of the creature)
Vathelokai 11-30-06, 08:12 PM	Also – for those of you who’ve been around for a while – my PC’s are old. They’re from pre-expendable cap days. Do I just stick the excess expendables in my home equipment pile or can I sell them back for cost? Can I give my allies expendable items? DO these fall under my expendable item cap or do they have their own – even though I pay for it.Since it was because of a rules change, you can get a full refund back to the level of the expendables cap. Place all info in the 'training hall of gladius' thread (which used to be named 'character changes thread'). The cap applies to all of your carried, at home, and ally equipment. The only ways around the cap are in the "rules of gladius: skills" section. The training hall of gladius can help with that... see below. If you gained a bunch of followers - can they come in with you as well?Yes. The hoard of archers thing has been done before, but usually with undead. Can you have an ally like your pet dog to do a guard free action to stop folks from burglaring you?No. This was much argued (arcane lock!), but the skill section of the rules of gladius is currently the final word. Going back to the thralls – how do I create them? 25 pt build, anything I want at the appropriate CL, paying credits if I want them to be a special race. What about gear – do they come with anything or just some clothes?25 pt. buy. No one knows about the gear; post about it in the Oracle thread (previously named 'the ask an elder' thread). Finally – my thrallherd was on a quest when I dropped out of the COCO – I never got back online to officially end the quest or anything like that. Can I restart that quest, continue from where it is – do I get XP / Loot from the 1 encounter I did? I want to update his sheet & get him legal with the new character sheet requirements.The quest counts as 'aborted' which rules wise is the same as a loss. Quest are run as a whole, so you cannot get rewards from one fight without finishing the quest. Post it on your sheet as a loss. You must restart the quest (I know all this because I've been a questlord in this situation before; argueed with Caterane to allow the quest to continue, but he said no). Training hall of gladius allows you to 'rewrite' your character if a rules change would damage your build. Since your character has missed so many rules changes, you will most likely be allowed to change your expendables around, rearange skills, and tweak other small things for no credit cost. I'd reccommend asking lots of questions in the tavern first about the rules changes though. But then, you're doing that.
SauroGrenom 11-30-06, 08:14 PM	Diplomacy allies never advance by class levels. Not even the harpy archer. This is a major weakness of a diplomacy ally. They tend to be more powerfull than cohorts, but they don't gain experience and they cannot have class levels.
McJarvis 11-30-06, 08:16 PM	Diplomacy allies never advance by class levels. Not even the harpy archer. This is a major weakness of a diplomacy ally. They tend to be more powerfull than cohorts, but they don't gain experience and they cannot have class levels. But isn't the Harpy Archer just an example of a Harpy that is advanced by character class? I'm not sure it's an applicable diplomacy ally....
SauroGrenom 11-30-06, 08:16 PM	I can answer the question about ally gear... your main character pays for all of the equipment. There is no way to gain extra lumps of wealth with a single feat.
SauroGrenom 11-30-06, 08:18 PM	But isn't the Harpy Archer just an example of a Harpy that is advanced by character class? I'm not sure it's an applicable diplomacy ally.... Is the harpy archer on the diplomacy ally list.... Yep. So it's a valid diplomacy ally. The rule about only advancing diplomacy allies by racial HD is a hard rule with no exceptions.
McJarvis 11-30-06, 08:30 PM	Is the harpy archer on the diplomacy ally list.... Yep. So it's a valid diplomacy ally. The rule about only advancing diplomacy allies by racial HD is a hard rule with no exceptions. ...except for what the monster manual already did to the harpy archer. Gotcha. edit-> Can you advance them to the point of changing sizes? With dragons, for instance. (Or the Blink dog, for an example that doesn't technically turn into a whole new creature)
SauroGrenom 11-30-06, 08:40 PM	Sure you can advance them to change size. Dragons are a crappy example though. Dragons advance in size and get lots of stat boosts including INT boosts. That means that they are no longer an option since their INT goes above 6. Only white dragons are an option to advance in this way. Even then they only go up to CR4 young white dragons. Advance higher, then they cannot be diplomacy allies any longer. Other creatures advance better. My favorites are Worg and Yeth Hound. The Griffon kicks some serious butt as well when you advance it. Generally the magical beasts are the best for advancing. You get 3 HD/CR and full BAB progression. Going up in size carries some serious advantages with it. Str, Con and natural armor all go up with reach.
SauroGrenom 11-30-06, 08:54 PM	Diplomacy allies are very powerfull at particular points in a character's development. They are great for helping a character through 2 or 3 levels where the build is weak. Since diplomacy allies don't gain experience, and it costs gold for you to get each ally, you will find that keeping your allies current and powerfull will drain resources as levels increase. That CR6 advanced Worg won't be so cool when your ECL15. So you will need to quest to gain a new CR11 advanced ally. That quest will cost you a serious piece of gold.
McJarvis 11-30-06, 08:58 PM	And there is absolutely no way to level up diplomacy // handle animal allies, correct?
Zevox 11-30-06, 09:07 PM	And there is absolutely no way to level up diplomacy // handle animal allies, correct? By class level, no. You can advance thier HD by paying the appropriate credit cost though, of course. Zevox
McJarvis 11-30-06, 09:08 PM	By class level, no. You can advance thier HD by paying the appropriate credit cost though, of course. Zevox I mean after aquiring them...or did you too? Sauro made it sound like you could never advance them after aquiring them edit-> Or was he referring to the ceiling on the worg being the restricting part? that might make more sense...
SauroGrenom 11-30-06, 09:35 PM	You can acquire an advanced ally, but once you have it, it will not advance. There is no way to advance a diplomacy ally that you already have. The only option to acquire a more advanced ally is to get a new one that is more advanced. That new quest to get the new ally carries a gold cost. The lack of a gold cost to switching allies and the fact that they level with you is the major advantage to the leadership cohort.
Zevox 11-30-06, 10:16 PM	I mean after aquiring them...or did you too? Sauro made it sound like you could never advance them after aquiring them I did. Cat has twice approved requests to advance allies already in the characters' posession - once for the Pegasus ally of Karen (lonewolf's War Mind), and once for the Dire Bat ally of my Archdevil Asran. Check the links in Asran's and Karen's sheets. I don't know if this can be done with diplomacy allies now that I think of it, since thier gp cost is tied to the quest, but for Handle Animal allies (no gp cost) and bought allies (concrete gp cost) it can and has been dne. Zevox
SauroGrenom 11-30-06, 10:28 PM	For a HA ally, there is no difference. Technicially there is no way to advance these allies either. But it's meaningless since questing for a new more advanced ally which is just exactially like you want your ally to be carries no cost. For purchased allies I was told I would have to sell Kracknol's griffon (at half price) and buy a new more advanced one. (makes me regret buying it in the first place) For diplomacy allies, there is a cost to pay for each ally, and there is no mechanism in the rules for advancing those allies you already have. There is a mechanism for gaining new allies.
McJarvis 11-30-06, 10:30 PM	Thank you for answering all my questions & giving me the tip on magical beasts. I think I got exactly what I needed > : )
Erithmu 12-01-06, 01:29 AM	Questlord Wanted For Ephraim to gain leadership ally start on Dec 6th. Decent sized back story to the events that need to unfold. PM me please if you are interested.
Hirumajoe 12-01-06, 08:25 AM	Some quick questions about Blackmarket magic items: If I wanted to buy a Shirt of Health +2 (+2 to Con) would this cost 5 credits and only 4,000 gp? Since a Shirt's slot affinity is physical improvement? Also, if I later wanted to upgrade it to a Shirt of Health +4 or +6, would this cost an additional 5 credits each time I upgraded it? Basically, I'm asking since I'm considering buying an amulet of natural armor +1, which makes it hard to use an amulet of health later in life.
hogarth 12-01-06, 08:27 AM	For a HA ally, there is no difference. Technicially there is no way to advance these allies either. But it's meaningless since questing for a new more advanced ally which is just exactially like you want your ally to be carries no cost. For purchased allies I was told I would have to sell Kracknol's griffon (at half price) and buy a new more advanced one. (makes me regret buying it in the first place). Sauro, I think the issue with that was that you asked to sell it at full price (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10250315&postcount=359), possibly to buy another piece of equipment. If you had asked to advance it by a few hit dice (paying the difference), I think Caterane would allow it.
renlim 12-01-06, 11:05 AM	Frighten Allies (Intimidate) As a Free Activity, you can use your Intimidate skill to scare one or more allies of your opponent that have an intelligence of 3 or more. Your Intimidate value must be at least as high as (Ally CR + Ally Wisdom + Resistance to fear) to affect him or her (called Courage Value). There are three different effects depending on your Intimidate value relative to the Courage Value: * Scared: Your intimidate skill is at least equal to the ally's Courage Value. Your opponent's ally is Shaken for the entire combat. * Frightened: Your intimidate value is higher than the Courage Value by 5 or more. Your opponent's ally is Frightened for the first 4 rounds, then is Shaken for the entire combat. * Panicked: Your intimidate value is higher than the Courage Value by 10 or more. Your opponent's ally is Panicked and does not appear to the fight. Handle Animal: If you also have a Handle Animal value equal to the CR of an opponent's ally, you may also intimidate animals. If you have a Handle Animal value of CR+5 you can intimidate magical beasts and vermin. Ok so does ally wisdom, refer to the ability score or ability bonus? If it relates to abillity score say my horse has 13 wisdom and is CR1 so his "courage value" is 14. If my opponent has a intimidate of 13 and has sufficent handle animal skill too, as I understand it "have the right to intimidate my horse", can my horse be in intimidated at all? I dont think so. Is this right or have I missunderstood these rules?
McJarvis 12-01-06, 11:21 AM	Ok so does ally wisdom, refer to the ability score or ability bonus? If it relates to abillity score say my horse has 13 wisdom and is CR1 so his "courage value" is 14. If my opponent has a intimidate of 13 and has sufficent handle animal skill too, as I understand it "have the right to intimidate my horse", can my horse be in intimidated at all? I dont think so. Is this right or have I missunderstood these rules? It's the Wis bonus, so in the case of your horse it is a "courage value" of CR1+1(Wis)=2. If it were the Wisdom score overall this skill would be worthless. Even as it is, T.I.M. had to dedicate a custom item, a charisma of 14, and a feat to get up that high on intimidate. If you want people to need 10 more to scare away allies.... Dang. That'd be really super-duper impossible tough.
SauroGrenom 12-01-06, 11:52 AM	This little section of the rules is poorly written. It's not clear what is the wisdom, and what qualifies as resistance to fear. Fear effects typicially grant a Will save, so does the allies will save factor in as well? Clearly you can intimidate animal allies, and that includes horses. The intimidate skill gets totally outrageous if you have large or huge size advantage. The circlet of persuasion also helps, and I think there is another item that grants a bonus on intimidate checks. So an intimidate skill can be cranked up pritty high.
hogarth 12-01-06, 12:02 PM	This little section of the rules is poorly written. It's not clear what is the wisdom, and what qualifies as resistance to fear. Fear effects typicially grant a Will save, so does the allies will save factor in as well? The check is based on the standard Intimidate check (hit dice+Wis bonus+modifier on saves vs. fear) except with hit dice replaced by CR (for whatever reason). Note that there's no Will save for a standard Intimidate check.
SauroGrenom 12-01-06, 12:09 PM	The check is based on the standard Intimidate check (hit dice+Wis bonus+modifier on saves vs. fear) except with hit dice replaced by CR (for whatever reason). Note that there's no Will save for a standard Intimidate check. Replacing HD with CR makes the allies very very easy to intimidate. There are lots of creatures with many HD and a low relative CR. We will need to discuss that with Cat after he comes back.
McJarvis 12-01-06, 12:13 PM	right now it's CR though....for better or worse. B-) edit-> looks like the rules for intimidating multiple allies changed since I last looked at it, too. It's alot harder to use intimidate as a blanket effect now...that's good, at least. It makes multiple allies + an anti-fear aura pretty effective for countering intimidate, at least:)
hogarth 12-01-06, 12:46 PM	edit-> looks like the rules for intimidating multiple allies changed since I last looked at it, too. It's alot harder to use intimidate as a blanket effect now...that's good, at least. It makes multiple allies + an anti-fear aura pretty effective for countering intimidate, at least:) Ah, yes... Another prime example of the Caterane Uncertainty Principle -- the very act of observing the rules causes them to change! :D
SauroGrenom 12-01-06, 12:52 PM	Ah, yes... Another prime example of the Caterane Uncertainty Principle -- the very act of observing the rules causes them to change! :D :rofl: Ahhh... So true. Sometimes it's like playing Calvin Ball.
Milov 12-01-06, 05:09 PM	The Mask Man New Character. I'll be taking a break from using my Sea Elf, Ihdald, to give a barbarian a try. And a dromite no less ;) If someone could do me a favor and look him over to see if I've made an mistakes (10:1 says I have), I'd be grateful :D
Krytos 12-01-06, 05:21 PM	A few mistakes in the skill sections I saw. The ACP for Swim is double the normal ACP. Also, you forgot to give yourself your racial bonus on spot. Looks good for the most part otherwise. Didn't look that hard to be honest though.
Milov 12-01-06, 07:18 PM	A few mistakes in the skill sections I saw. The ACP for Swim is double the normal ACP. Also, you forgot to give yourself your racial bonus on spot. Looks good for the most part otherwise. Didn't look that hard to be honest though. Fixed em up, and I didn't even know about the double ACP for swim checks. Thanks!
Vathelokai 12-01-06, 07:51 PM	The Mask Man New Character. I'll be taking a break from using my Sea Elf, Ihdald, to give a barbarian a try. And a dromite no less ;) If someone could do me a favor and look him over to see if I've made an mistakes (10:1 says I have), I'd be grateful :D That -2 will save is gonna hurt.... not sure how to fix it and keep your build the same, but it needs something.
TheMagister 12-02-06, 02:47 AM	@Abyssal Stalker - WAR press release sent via PM. Too long? Does it make past the cutting room floor? TM
Abyssal Stalker 12-02-06, 03:07 AM	I'm sure it'll make it's way through the print. Allthough I have to see if I need to place it into the opinions section so that GW's impartiality remains untouched ;)
UserNamer 12-02-06, 04:39 AM	Hello, I had a question about the pyrokinetist, On lvl 3 he gets bolt of fire, and it says that the bolt deals 1d6 per class level the pyro has, does that mean that it deal damage equal to the pyro level, or the total class levels I have?
Zelck 12-02-06, 01:25 PM	Hello, I had a question about the pyrokinetist, On lvl 3 he gets bolt of fire, and it says that the bolt deals 1d6 per class level the pyro has, does that mean that it deal damage equal to the pyro level, or the total class levels I have? I'm pretty sure it's per pyro level. Speaking of pyros, how do their abilities interact with ghosts? As in, can a ghost throw flames as a pyro that harm people in the material plane?
Iced 12-02-06, 04:47 PM	Can centaurs take mounted combat tree feats without actually taking the mounnted combat feat? If they take the mounted combat feat do they themselves count as a mount?
MindWandererB 12-02-06, 07:18 PM	Hello, I had a question about the pyrokinetist, On lvl 3 he gets bolt of fire, and it says that the bolt deals 1d6 per class level the pyro has, does that mean that it deal damage equal to the pyro level, or the total class levels I have?"Class level" always means that class. Pyro, in this case. Can centaurs take mounted combat tree feats without actually taking the mounnted combat feat? If they take the mounted combat feat do they themselves count as a mount?Urgh... we had this debate before, and it was a mess. By RAW, no. It might make sense, and it's suggested in the Zelekhut entry, but it doesn't work as writen.
Milov 12-02-06, 07:47 PM	Bit o' a question... How exactly does Miniquesting for a handle animal ally work? What I mean is... do you just make the check once you find the animal? And that'd be it? Or is there more to it? I tried looking for a quest to look at on this topic to find out, but I was having trouble finding one. Still am for that matter. :confused: EDIT: If anyone has previously done such a quest and could link me there (The whole thread, if possible, not just the rewards like are linked in the character sheets, as I'm discovering) so I could see... that'd be grand. Answers alone are also wanted!
TheMagister 12-02-06, 08:17 PM	Naw, you pretty much have to miniquest and successfully complete an encounter vs. something of your ECL before you are allowed to attain the ally. Questlords are encouraged to not pit you against your intended ally (or a pack of them, or whatever). Usually, the quest ends up being some sort of rescue. TM
Milov 12-02-06, 08:23 PM	Ohh... that makes sense... ALOT more sense than just finding it and making a check, considering that quests, miniquests, etc, are all ropeplaying and whatnot. Thanks! :D
hogarth 12-02-06, 08:53 PM	Ohh... that makes sense... ALOT more sense than just finding it and making a check, considering that quests, miniquests, etc, are all ropeplaying and whatnot. Thanks! :D Here's an example of a Handle Animal miniquest: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=712171
Milov 12-02-06, 10:30 PM	Thanks for that! It basically decided for me. I think it's about time I got into this questing thing. Which, of course, means I'm lookin' for a quest lord. Based on the questions I just asked, you can probably determine that I'm after an ally (Handle Animal Based), for muh new guy, The Mask Man. Give him his field test and try out (mini)questing all at once. Anyone willing to deal with my inexperience in this matter and run it anyway?
Zevox 12-02-06, 11:32 PM	And, on a similar vein of thought: Questlord Wanted I'm looking for a questlord for Archdevil Asran, for a quest to (hopefully) begin on the 13th. Its actually a Guild Mission, so I can't go posting anything specific in public here, but anyone who is interested can PM me and I'll give you the details. Theres a fair bit of RP behind the idea, but not so much you'd need to learn everything thats happened in his story thus far, just in case anyone would be worried about that (I can easily summarize everything you'd need to know in the PM). Zevox
MitzaVolchenko 12-03-06, 01:03 AM	Bah! What in the nine hells am I doing here?! Hello and happy waves to those I know. Kinda sparse around here these days... Not sure if I am going to be back on a permanent basis or not. It was getting pretty un-fun for me when my move and WoTC's tech issues took me away. We'll have to see how things go.
Vathelokai 12-03-06, 01:09 AM	Holy Hell! Welcome back. Lots a changes since you left.
MitzaVolchenko 12-03-06, 01:21 AM	Yeah...no kidding. Looks like absolutely every rule and scenario I argued against has been implemented.
TheMagister 12-03-06, 01:40 AM	Keep in mind, that while a response from customer service is nice, by our rules it doesn't carry a whole lot of weight. We've gone against their advice on several occasions. Hi there Nathan, When you combine the wealth of information available in Dungeons & Dragons 3.5 with the boundless imagination of Dungeon Masters and players everywhere, an enormous variety of questions are bound to come up! In the past, we in Customer Service have done our best to answer every rules related question that has come to us. We found that more and more often, there simply was no answer in the rules to what the players and Dungeon Masters were asking. But this is the nature of Dungeons & Dragons! We sometimes get so caught up in all the rules and crunchy aspects of the game that we as players and Dungeon Masters forget one very important detail – The Dungeon Master is in complete control of the play experience that he/she is providing for the players. There are many situations that are not specifically covered in the rules – situations that require someone to interpret and apply the rules creatively, and situations that require someone to make new rules on the fly. The Dungeon Master is that someone. The Dungeon Master has always been, and will always be, the final arbiter on how things work in his/her campaign or adventure. What does this mean for us and you? It means that if you are a player with a rules question, you should work with your Dungeon Master to form an answer that works in that campaign. What your Dungeon Master says trumps any answer we could possibly give you. This also means that if you are a Dungeon Master looking for an answer to a complex rules question, we in Customer Service are not able to help you. You have many resources available to you, and you’ll first want to make sure you’ve looked through all the relevant rules sources. If you don’t feel you have enough information to make a ruling after going through those books, you may want to check the errata and FAQ on the D&D website. If at that point you are still unsure of what to do, you may want to visit the message boards and discuss the situation with other DMs and players, to see if any of them can provide a solution that you are comfortable with. What counts as a complex rules question? Basically anything that you can’t find rules for in the books. For example, if you want to know how a specific spell interacts with another spell, feat, ability, etc., and the rules simply do not mention anything about the interaction, then it is up to the DM to make a decision. That is a complex rules question. However, if you want to know how a specific spell, feat, ability, etc. works on its own and the text simply doesn’t make sense to you, then give us a call or drop us an e-mail! We’ll be more than happy to help you understand the rules. We will also continue to pass on errata suggestions and feedback to the good folks that make the game, so if you find some incorrect or obviously missing information, feel free to send that in as feedback. We’ll make sure it gets to the right people. Even though we won’t be able to help you with those complex questions, it is important to remember that the game belongs to the Dungeon Master, and he/she is sharing it with the players! The Dungeon Master has all the power in the world to make and break the rules as he/she sees fit! As long as players are informed on what rules are being applied and how they work, and everyone is doing their best to make the gaming experience fun and exciting, then everyone is already following the real “rules” of the game. Take Care and Good Gaming! :) Sam Customer Service Representative Wizards of the Coast 1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada) 425-204-8069 (From all other countries) Monday-Friday 7am-6pm PST / 10am-9pm EST The coward. Well, I now have to compile my points and ya'lls concerns and get them into the Oracle thread. This'll take a while. {sigh} TM
Sutro 12-03-06, 02:45 AM	Wow. Might as well have said, "Hello gamer! We've recently laid off three-quarters of our customer service staff and our development liason to the department. As such, we no longer answer rules questions. In fact, we don't answer any questions at all. Please don't write to us again."
Abyssal Stalker 12-03-06, 03:43 AM	Hi there Nathan, When you combine the wealth of information available in Dungeons & Dragons 3.5 with the boundless imagination of Dungeon Masters and players everywhere, an enormous variety of questions are bound to come up! In the past, we in Customer Service have done our best to answer every rules related question that has come to us. We found that more and more often, there simply was no answer in the rules to what the players and Dungeon Masters were asking. But this is the nature of Dungeons & Dragons! We sometimes get so caught up in all the rules and crunchy aspects of the game that we as players and Dungeon Masters forget one very important detail – The Dungeon Master is in complete control of the play experience that he/she is providing for the players. There are many situations that are not specifically covered in the rules – situations that require someone to interpret and apply the rules creatively, and situations that require someone to make new rules on the fly. The Dungeon Master is that someone. The Dungeon Master has always been, and will always be, the final arbiter on how things work in his/her campaign or adventure. What does this mean for us and you? It means that if you are a player with a rules question, you should work with your Dungeon Master to form an answer that works in that campaign. What your Dungeon Master says trumps any answer we could possibly give you. This also means that if you are a Dungeon Master looking for an answer to a complex rules question, we in Customer Service are not able to help you. You have many resources available to you, and you’ll first want to make sure you’ve looked through all the relevant rules sources. If you don’t feel you have enough information to make a ruling after going through those books, you may want to check the errata and FAQ on the D&D website. If at that point you are still unsure of what to do, you may want to visit the message boards and discuss the situation with other DMs and players, to see if any of them can provide a solution that you are comfortable with. What counts as a complex rules question? Basically anything that you can’t find rules for in the books. For example, if you want to know how a specific spell interacts with another spell, feat, ability, etc., and the rules simply do not mention anything about the interaction, then it is up to the DM to make a decision. That is a complex rules question. However, if you want to know how a specific spell, feat, ability, etc. works on its own and the text simply doesn’t make sense to you, then give us a call or drop us an e-mail! We’ll be more than happy to help you understand the rules. We will also continue to pass on errata suggestions and feedback to the good folks that make the game, so if you find some incorrect or obviously missing information, feel free to send that in as feedback. We’ll make sure it gets to the right people. Even though we won’t be able to help you with those complex questions, it is important to remember that the game belongs to the Dungeon Master, and he/she is sharing it with the players! The Dungeon Master has all the power in the world to make and break the rules as he/she sees fit! As long as players are informed on what rules are being applied and how they work, and everyone is doing their best to make the gaming experience fun and exciting, then everyone is already following the real “rules” of the game. Take Care and Good Gaming! :) Sam Customer Service Representative Wizards of the Coast 1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada) 425-204-8069 (From all other countries) Monday-Friday 7am-6pm PST / 10am-9pm EST The coward. Well, I now have to compile my points and ya'lls concerns and get them into the Oracle thread. This'll take a while. {sigh} TM :rofl:
Abyssal Stalker 12-03-06, 03:48 AM	Bah! What in the nine hells am I doing here?! Hello and happy waves to those I know. Kinda sparse around here these days... Not sure if I am going to be back on a permanent basis or not. It was getting pretty un-fun for me when my move and WoTC's tech issues took me away. We'll have to see how things go. Welcome back, double evil chromosomes!
UserNamer 12-03-06, 04:46 AM	Can I use a Tower Shield to gain cover? So that I don't lose my attack? Can I gain cover from multiple things? and does it stack?
TheMagister 12-03-06, 05:30 AM	Can I use a Tower Shield to gain cover? Sure! Anyone can take a standard action to gain total cover while wielding a Tower Shield. So that I don't lose my attack? Well, I'm not sure what you mean by this... Since it takes a standard action to gain total cover from a tower shield, that leaves you with only a move action remaining. Also, in the description of the tower shield in the PHB Equipment section, it specifies that you don't threaten the area around you while you are taking total cover, so no AoOs, either. Theoretically (and I've considered this!) a magic/power user could make use of a tower shield and quicken spell to cast a spell and take total cover and move in a single round. Sure, there'd only be a few spells, but they're basically free. It wouldn't work around here (with spell levels/pp as precious as they currently are) in the 3FC very well, but on the tabletop it would make for some Monster/BBEG frustration, I'd wager. Can I gain cover from multiple things? and does it stack? Yes. In the description of cover in the PHB Combat section, it states that there are degrees of cover, ranging from lesser versions (low cover: +2 AC) to greater versions (improved cover: +8 to AC and +4? to Reflex saves). I'm not totally sure, but I think that two instances of regular cover (+4 AC, +2 Reflex saves) would logically add up to improved cover. Makes sense. TM
Hirumajoe 12-03-06, 07:59 AM	So I'm considering adding Kai Engel as a level 3 character (my Human Paragon/Fighter/Wizard entry in the UnCon competition). And I'm considering long term progression. And I mean *long term*. I.e. ECL 19 and 20. Since it impacts how I set his skills and feats early on. How does the Archmage ability Master of Shaping interact with Anti-Magic field? If there's a post or reference I can look up online, that would also be handy regarding this interaction. Antimagic Field Abjuration Level: Clr 8, Magic 6, Protection 6, Sor/Wiz 6 Components: V, S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 10 ft. Area: 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you Duration: 10 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: See text An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines. An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration. Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature’s spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.) A normal creature can enter the area, as can normal missiles. Furthermore, while a magic sword does not function magically within the area, it is still a sword (and a masterwork sword at that). The spell has no effect on golems and other constructs that are imbued with magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting (unless they have been summoned, in which case they are treated like any other summoned creatures). Elementals, corporeal undead, and outsiders are likewise unaffected unless summoned. These creatures’ spell-like or supernatural abilities, however, may be temporarily nullified by the field. Dispel magic does not remove the field, though Mage's Disjunction might. Two or more antimagic fields sharing any of the same space have no effect on each other. Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field (see the individual spell descriptions). Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this. Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field. Arcane Material Component A pinch of powdered iron or iron filings. Mastery of Shaping The archmage can alter area and effect spells that use one of the following shapes: burst, cone, cylinder, emanation, or spread. The alteration consists of creating spaces within the spell’s area or effect that are not subject to the spell. The minimum dimension for these spaces is a 5-foot cube. Furthermore, any shapeable spells have a minimum dimension of 5 feet instead of 10 feet. This ability costs one 6th-level spell slot. 1. How would this interact while polymorphed, say into a large creature. Does my 10' reach with my now large sized weapon work or not? 2. How does this interact with magic weapons, armor, and defensive spells on me and my opponent. Does no one get magical benefits when I attack, but everyone gets magical benefits when my opponent attacks? Magic arrows fired through the anti-magic field? 3. Can I setup a corridor of open spaces, which turns with me? In other words a hemi-sphere of antimagic which I can choose the direction of? Is turning a free action btw? 4. How do targeted spells interact? Something like sleep or charm person, which appear at a point? Or even fireball landing either outside of the 10' radius, in the 10' radius, and in the open squares inside where the caster is? Thanks. And I hope someone appreciates the daily dose of mind bending questions.
UserNamer 12-03-06, 11:24 AM	What if I'm on muy horse, using the Cover action, and wielding a a tower shield, using total cover, would I get +12 AC? Couse using the cover ont he horse, doesn't require an action.
Hirumajoe 12-03-06, 12:07 PM	What if I'm on muy horse, using the Cover action, and wielding a a tower shield, using total cover, would I get +12 AC? Couse using the cover ont he horse, doesn't require an action. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here. If you have total cover, you can't be attacked. Total Cover If you don’t have line of effect to your target he is considered to have total cover from you. You can’t make an attack against a target that has total cover. Tower shields have a special clause however. Shield, Tower This massive wooden shield is nearly as tall as you are. In most situations, it provides the indicated shield bonus to your AC. However, you can instead use it as total cover, though you must give up your attacks to do so. The shield does not, however, provide cover against targeted spells; a spellcaster can cast a spell on you by targeting the shield you are holding. You cannot bash with a tower shield, nor can you use your shield hand for anything else. When employing a tower shield in combat, you take a -2 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield’s encumbrance. Tower shields specifically do not give you cover against targeted spell effects. However it should work against area of effects like fireballs, and your normal melee and ranged attacks. As for cover in general, I don't think it stacks. You simply have it or not. (Or the DM could rule you have improved cover, but there's no solid guidelines for that. Such decisions would essentially be a house rule.) Cover To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC). When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has cover if any line from your square to the target’s square goes through a wall (including a low wall). When making a melee attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks. I note in that description it doesn't care how many squares that your line of sight lines pass through, all it cares about is any or none.
Zelck 12-03-06, 12:41 PM	@Hirumajoe: I'm pretty sure Mastery of Shaping works with Antimagic Fields. I have no clue what happens when only part of a creature is inside an AMF. However, if there's a non-AMF'd square inside the AMF, spells and magic effects should be able to hit stuff in that square.
Hirumajoe 12-03-06, 01:27 PM	@Hirumajoe: I'm pretty sure Mastery of Shaping works with Antimagic Fields. I have no clue what happens when only part of a creature is inside an AMF. However, if there's a non-AMF'd square inside the AMF, spells and magic effects should be able to hit stuff in that square. Did a little more digging this morning, looking through faqs and what not. Found the following in the 3.0 FAQ: Does an antimagic field suppress a spell effect at the point of origin or the area of effect? For instance, if I cast silence on myself and then cast antimagic field (assuming I have the Silent Spell feat), would the entire silence spell be suppressed (because it’s centered on me), or just the 10-foot radius surrounding me, leaving a 5-foot ring of silence around the outside of the antimagic field? It depends on the spell. Silence is an emanation, so the whole effect is suppressed if the point from which the effect emanates is inside the antimagic field. With an area spell, only the part of the area that is within the antimagic field is suppressed. Note that the antimagic field blocks line of effect, so an area cannot extend through the antimagic field. For example, if you brought the antimagic field into a fog cloud effect, only the portion of the fog cloud that is within the antimagic field would be suppressed. On the other hand, if you cast antimagic field in a corridor 10 feet wide, the fog cloud effect could not spread past the antimagic field. Note that a spread effect will flow around an antimagic field if it has space to do so, just as it would spread around any other barrier. So apparently AMF's (Antimagic Fields) block line of effect. Which I think answers my question about a fireball cast outside and within the AMF. Although I guess you cast it on the inside squares and it would be contained inside it. Hrm.
MindWandererB 12-03-06, 03:00 PM	@Hirumajoe: I'd perfer if we didn't discuss Antimagic Field until we have to. It's one of the most complex mechanics in the game, and WotC stubbornly refuses to address most of it. Let's keep a lid on that kettle of fish as long as we can. @UserNamer and TheMagister: No, multiple covers don't stack. You take the best one. If you're on the other side of an arrow slit, you get improved cover, but if you're on the other side of an arrow slit that's behind a rock, you gon't get ultra-super-duper cover.
Hirumajoe 12-03-06, 03:08 PM	@Hirumajoe: I'd perfer if we didn't discuss Antimagic Field until we have to. It's one of the most complex mechanics in the game, and WotC stubbornly refuses to address most of it. Let's keep a lid on that kettle of fish as long as we can. Fair enough. Since I won't be getting to it with a character anytime soon (I.e. in the next 6 months to a year) I'll drop the question.
McJarvis 12-03-06, 04:07 PM	@UserNamer and TheMagister: No, multiple covers don't stack. You take the best one. If you're on the other side of an arrow slit, you get improved cover, but if you're on the other side of an arrow slit that's behind a rock, you gon't get ultra-super-duper cover. Actually, there's a good chance you have total cover in that instance ;)
Erithmu 12-03-06, 04:19 PM	Actually, there's a good chance you have total cover in that instance ;) Similarly no LOS
Vathelokai 12-03-06, 06:42 PM	Saffron Brass (ECL 10) will be doing a MQ for a diplomacy ally next week. Anyone up to running it?
MitzaVolchenko 12-03-06, 11:25 PM	I'll take it if ya like, Vath.
Vathelokai 12-04-06, 12:53 AM	I'll take it if ya like, Vath. I do like. I'll PM the details.
MitzaVolchenko 12-04-06, 01:32 AM	I do like. I'll PM the details. Sounds good...nice way for me to get back into the swing of things ;)
TelinArtho 12-04-06, 11:31 AM	Welcome back Mitza - always good to see familiar faces resurface.
NiQil 12-04-06, 11:40 AM	What are the pricing formula's for wands? Specifically, how much would a wand of Extended Enlarge Person cost?
TelinArtho 12-04-06, 11:45 AM	750 * CL * SL for 50 charges. Extended Enlarge Person @ CL3 would be 750*3*2 = 4500gp. 2250gp if you wanted to craft it. Not too amazing, but just to show, Enlarge Person @CL6 would be the same cost... (but harder to dispel).
NiQil 12-04-06, 11:52 AM	What are slings made of? The item description doesn't say. I always pictured them as a metal cup-like design with straps attached to provide the throwing motion.
MitzaVolchenko 12-04-06, 11:57 AM	What are slings made of? The item description doesn't say. I always pictured them as a metal cup-like design with straps attached to provide the throwing motion. Usually a strip of cloth or leather.
MitzaVolchenko 12-04-06, 11:58 AM	Welcome back Mitza - always good to see familiar faces resurface. Yep...last time it was you :P
McJarvis 12-04-06, 12:15 PM	Does a cleric with the magic domain need an adequate intelligence/or/charisma to use a wand? I don't think so, but might as well make sure :)
NiQil 12-04-06, 12:16 PM	Does a cleric with the magic domain need an adequate intelligence/or/charisma to use a wand? I don't think so, but might as well make sure :) No....only that the spell be on the spell list. That is the only requirement to use a wand, to my knowledge......that and the ability to speak the command word.
Zevox 12-04-06, 05:16 PM	Welcome back Mitza - always good to see familiar faces resurface. Let me echo that - a big welcome back to you Mitza :) . Yeah, most of the rules you were against got added, but do give 'em a shot, eh? They're actually working pretty well, truth be told. Does a cleric with the magic domain need an adequate intelligence/or/charisma to use a wand? Nope. Hell, they don't even need an adequate wisdom to use Cleric wands - minimum ability score isn't required for wands. Take my Featylec for instance - hes a Ranger with wisdom 8, but he can still use his wand of CLW just fine ;) . Zevox
spasheridan 12-04-06, 07:26 PM	How do I ask to be sent on a quest? If I want a PC to go on a quest but no QL is available can he go into the arena instead? How do I indicate that on my character sheet? If this is the place, Legion wants to go on a quest – he’s a Telepath 5 / Psion 1 and he wants to quest for his thrall. With the Thrall ECL cap in place it’ll be a quest for an ECL 4 thrall, so is that an ECL 4 quest?
nightbanegod 12-04-06, 08:02 PM	someone please review my most recent incarnation of a CoCo character at showpost.php?p=10820587&postcount=1008
Vathelokai 12-04-06, 08:17 PM	someone please review my most recent incarnation of a CoCo character at showpost.php?p=10820587&postcount=1008 Hey, been a while. Here's a link Gorgox, the Scaly
Vathelokai 12-04-06, 08:22 PM	How do I ask to be sent on a quest? If I want a PC to go on a quest but no QL is available can he go into the arena instead? How do I indicate that on my character sheet? If this is the place, Legion wants to go on a quest – he’s a Telepath 5 / Psion 1 and he wants to quest for his thrall. With the Thrall ECL cap in place it’ll be a quest for an ECL 4 thrall, so is that an ECL 4 quest? You ask here for a questlord (i.e. game master) to run your quest. If you cannot find a questlord, then you can't quest until you have one. You can go on miniquests without a quest lord by putting it in your title line; those are treated basicly like a monster fight in the arena. Your title line on your sheet should look like... Ready for Dec ?? - Quest for Thrall ally - Questlord=spasheridan or for a miniquest Ready for Dec ?? - [fight 2] Miniquest for ally - Questlord=spasheridan You can gain an ally with either a long quest or a miniquest. Both cost credits. (don't remember how many off the top of my head; couldn't be more than one or two). The quests for allies are always equel to your ecl; so your lv 6 thrallherd must go on a EL6 quest to get your ecl4 ally. Sorry; no time to run the quest for you. Hope I was helpful.
Zevox 12-04-06, 08:24 PM	You can gain an ally with either a long quest or a miniquest. Both cost credits. (don't remember how many off the top of my head; couldn't be more than one or two). Full quests are 1 credit per week, miniquests just count as two activated characters (so they cost nothing unless you activate another character in the same week). Zevox
Vathelokai 12-04-06, 08:24 PM	I have a bat swarm attacking a creature with DR 5/bludgeon. Does the swarm damage count as bludgeoning damage? Bats that are not in a swarm have no attack, so I'm not sure. A quick answer would be great.
TheMagister 12-04-06, 08:48 PM	Heads up! Sdentch will be guild-questing (no credits, but a three-week full quest) to "recover goods" for WAR! She's a ton of fun to questlord, with a smash-first-ask-questions-later kind of mentality. If she's not active by fight week (Dec 13th) then WAR's gonna start taking gp penalties the week after, so I'd like to get this outta the way. Roleplay possibilities are endless, though I'd prefer something that deals with hurting the Denthian church (we have something of a rivalry going), something that hinders CEF's intrusion into Gawane District (which WAR sees [or is politically spinning] as a heavy-handed and coldly dispassionate grab for more power) such as the roleplay opening to the creation of another band of Freedom Fighters, or furthers her connection with the god of travel and roads, Farlanghan (who she seems to have charmed with her straightforwardness and simplicity). Still, if something else grabs your fancy, I'm up for that, too. Thanks in advance, and notify me here in the Tavern or by PM so that I can set my title line before Wednesday the 6th! Thanks! TM
TheMagister 12-04-06, 08:53 PM	I have a bat swarm attacking a creature with DR 5/bludgeon. Does the swarm damage count as bludgeoning damage? Bats that are not in a swarm have no attack, so I'm not sure. A quick answer would be great. Technically, a normal bite counts as bludgeoning/slashing/piercing damage. However, since I can't imagine a bat swarm doing damage in any other fashion than the tearing and puncturing of flesh, I... ... Well, Niqil will say I'm imposing real-world logic on a game mechanic, but I don't care. Bats don't bite HARD, they bite SHARP, if that makes any sense. DR 5/bludgeon would apply in my home game vs. bat swarm damage. On another way of looking at it, the damage is untyped in the book, and you could call it "Pitlord Discretion" and make your decision, and everyone would have to live with it. TM
Zevox 12-04-06, 08:55 PM	Thanks in advance, and notify me here in the Tavern or by PM so that I can set my title line before Wednesday the 6th! *whispers* Psst, TM, if you send that as a CAP this week, it doesn't start until the 13th. ;) Zevox
McJarvis 12-04-06, 08:58 PM	Technically, a normal bite counts as bludgeoning/slashing/piercing damage. However, since I can't imagine a bat swarm doing damage in any other fashion than the tearing and puncturing of flesh, I... ... Well, Niqil will say I'm imposing real-world logic on a game mechanic, but I don't care. Bats don't bite HARD, they bite SHARP, if that makes any sense. DR 5/bludgeon would apply in my home game vs. bat swarm damage. On another way of looking at it, the damage is untyped in the book, and you could call it "Pitlord Discretion" and make your decision, and everyone would have to live with it. TM If anything, it's unnamed or "swarm damage". I'd imagine a swarm of bees would sting, a swarm of bats would bite, a swarm of rats might claw/bite, etc, etc. In the end we can't make a hard rule for them all at once(obviously).
TheMagister 12-04-06, 09:14 PM	*whispers* Psst, TM, if you send that as a CAP this week, it doesn't start until the 13th. ;) Zevox :doh: That delay always fouls me up. I hate not being nimble! Either way, it'll be all right. Thanks for the heads up.
nightbanegod 12-04-06, 10:06 PM	Hey, been a while. Here's a link Gorgox, the Scaly thanks for the link... forgot a few of the tricks in coding... anything new in here since i been away... ohh and thank mindwanderer for my return and rekindling of my interests in CoCo...
Vathelokai 12-04-06, 10:10 PM	thanks for the link... forgot a few of the tricks in coding... anything new in here since i been away... ohh and thank mindwanderer for my return and rekindling of my interests in CoCo... Check the rules of gladius for the skills post and the 3 fight cycle information. Reread the quick start guide, since we rewrote it (did MindWandererB do that? Somebody should be credited). It summs up most of the new changes and wierdness that has happened. TAO still has the links to the 'how to code' pages on their intro post. While you're there, maybe Dalamar could stop in ;) Heck, I still have that running joke about which SRD is the real one. Good to see you back.
nightbanegod 12-04-06, 10:37 PM	Check the rules of gladius for the skills post and the 3 fight cycle information. Reread the quick start guide, since we rewrote it (did MindWandererB do that? Somebody should be credited). It summs up most of the new changes and wierdness that has happened. TAO still has the links to the 'how to code' pages on their intro post. While you're there, maybe Dalamar could stop in ;) Heck, I still have that running joke about which SRD is the real one. Good to see you back. UGH... dont even start on the SRD... i remember having 3 different links and only coming up with 2 SRD's for whatever reason on my favorites list... sure i shall have Dalamar stop by... im thinking of restarting him anyways ... since i got my fighter figure covered with this most recent edition of melee combatant. In any event.. i dont have any consumables on me i think i might at least want something, i just wanted a quick rundown on the guy i churned out in 2 days on the new rules so far. If anything new pops up i might be inclined on joining some guilds with a power hungry wizard and a just simply "HUNGRY" fighter... (see prefight actions for Gorgox)
MitzaVolchenko 12-05-06, 12:16 AM	UGH... dont even start on the SRD... i remember having 3 different links and only coming up with 2 SRD's for whatever reason on my favorites list... sure i shall have Dalamar stop by... im thinking of restarting him anyways ... since i got my fighter figure covered with this most recent edition of melee combatant. In any event.. i dont have any consumables on me i think i might at least want something, i just wanted a quick rundown on the guy i churned out in 2 days on the new rules so far. If anything new pops up i might be inclined on joining some guilds with a power hungry wizard and a just simply "HUNGRY" fighter... (see prefight actions for Gorgox) /me chuckles He has been away as long or longer than I...welcome back NBG. It is a whole new ballgame.
nightbanegod 12-05-06, 08:46 AM	/me chuckles He has been away as long or longer than I...welcome back NBG. It is a whole new ballgame. the last thing i remember was trying to reactivate a character some time back around june... and even then there were changes like the 3FC. so go figure... pitty i had all kinds of hell going on in RL around that time... otherwise my kobold would have rained hell upon you all!!! muhahaha
Zevox 12-05-06, 08:51 AM	And, on a similar vein of thought: Questlord Wanted I'm looking for a questlord for Archdevil Asran, for a quest to (hopefully) begin on the 13th. Its actually a Guild Mission, so I can't go posting anything specific in public here, but anyone who is interested can PM me and I'll give you the details. Theres a fair bit of RP behind the idea, but not so much you'd need to learn everything thats happened in his story thus far, just in case anyone would be worried about that (I can easily summarize everything you'd need to know in the PM). Zevox So, nobody at all interested in taking this? Zevox
Abyssal Stalker 12-05-06, 09:06 AM	So, nobody at all interested in taking this? Zevox I am interested. I won't be around here for a week, but I should be back on 12th. Feel free to send me the necessary info, but don't expect any response before that.
Zade_Deftfingers 12-05-06, 09:33 AM	Hey Everyone, I'm looking to start in the CoCo, some people might remember me as Aramil Dunskar, although I wasn't really one of the big shots in the Arena, but I was around from the beginning. I'm going to be researching a pretty good build, so it might be a while before I actually submit my character (especially with finals comming up soon), but I hope to have one up soon. See you guys around -Zade
UserNamer 12-05-06, 09:40 AM	I had a question about the cleric domain Madness (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/clericDomains.html#madness): The 1st lvl spell it gives me is Random Action, but would does it do? A random lvl 1 cleric spell I thought, but I wasn't sure. So does anybody know this?
TelinArtho 12-05-06, 09:42 AM	@Vath - there doesn't seem to be a clear-cut answer to your question. To me, it would either be untyped (in which case DR should apply) or bites (in which case DR would not apply). I am more inclined to say it is the former for now until more information is found to say it should be the latter. In any case, as a pitlord you can make a call on this for the current fight and we can look into it for future encounters.
TelinArtho 12-05-06, 09:43 AM	I had a question about the cleric domain Madness (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/clericDomains.html#madness): The 1st lvl spell it gives me is Random Action, but would does it do? A random lvl 1 cleric spell I thought, but I wasn't sure. So does anybody know this? Look up Lesser Confusion - that's the spell they meant to reference.
NiQil 12-05-06, 10:09 AM	Hey Everyone, I'm looking to start in the CoCo, some people might remember me as Aramil Dunskar, although I wasn't really one of the big shots in the Arena, but I was around from the beginning. I'm going to be researching a pretty good build, so it might be a while before I actually submit my character (especially with finals comming up soon), but I hope to have one up soon. See you guys around -Zade I remember ya...welcome back. If you have changed user names, you may want to PM Pitlords and Prisonlords about having your credits xferred to this new user name, so that you can still use them (I think you still have some).
McJarvis 12-05-06, 10:17 AM	Is that "Teams" thing(two characters forces combined equal one character of two levels higher) in affect yet? I think we may have our first team formed B-)
NiQil 12-05-06, 10:26 AM	Is that "Teams" thing(two characters forces combined equal one character of two levels higher) in affect yet? I think we may have our first team formed B-) I think not...if it was, don't think I wouldn't be all over that...most every character I have build has been a part of some RP group I have created but never really fleshed out...even my current characters. Dwarven mercs-for-hire... Of course, if and when it ever does, my teams would be a little more complimentary...CoDzilla for the win.
Erithmu 12-05-06, 10:35 AM	I think I remember one of the rules being that the characters on the team had to be from two different players.
Iced 12-05-06, 11:23 AM	How do I ask to be sent on a quest? If I want a PC to go on a quest but no QL is available can he go into the arena instead? How do I indicate that on my character sheet? If this is the place, Legion wants to go on a quest – he’s a Telepath 5 / Psion 1 and he wants to quest for his thrall. With the Thrall ECL cap in place it’ll be a quest for an ECL 4 thrall, so is that an ECL 4 quest? I think i'm still on the questlords list. I can take 1 quest at a time and as long as it's not overlapping with another quest here i'll be able to finish it on time. Welcome back to Mitza and NBG! ~Iced
Iced 12-05-06, 11:26 AM	Can centaurs take mounted combat tree feats without actually taking the mounnted combat feat? If they take the mounted combat feat do they themselves count as a mount? Urgh... we had this debate before, and it was a mess. By RAW, no. It might make sense, and it's suggested in the Zelekhut entry, but it doesn't work as writen. So... i can't take the feats...? :raincloud This could complicate things...
McJarvis 12-05-06, 11:34 AM	Of course, if and when it ever does, my teams would be a little more complimentary...CoDzilla for the win. I don't believe you. You would use two dwarven full BAB characters that never use expendibles. Any less, and it just doesn't relieve nighttime coughs like NiQil ;-) edit-> I'm going to bring this up in Council since there seems to be interest.
spasheridan 12-05-06, 12:54 PM	@Iced - thanks for the offer. PM sent about that. @ everyone else - so if my thrall herd wants to gain his thrall is it a quest or a mini-quest? I think someone said that it was OK to do a miniquest - can I get a confirmation on that? Thanks!
hogarth 12-05-06, 01:01 PM	@Iced - thanks for the offer. PM sent about that. @ everyone else - so if my thrall herd wants to gain his thrall is it a quest or a mini-quest? I think someone said that it was OK to do a miniquest - can I get a confirmation on that? Thanks! I thought it was pointed out that you don't even need to do a miniquest for a thrall (as opposed to a leadership cohort) since they're a class ally with a pre-defined method of attaining one (i.e. you send out a signal and they just show up within 24 hours). A miniquest where the goal is "wait 24 hours" doesn't sound terribly exciting (or sensible) to me. "Your hourglass ran out of sand, so you need to fight an arrowhawk and a cockatrice to get some more." ;)
spasheridan 12-05-06, 01:25 PM	I thought I read somewhere that all cohorts require a quest - even for a thrall. Unless otherwise noted the character must go on a Quest to acquire a class ally. Class feature allies use the 25 pt buy to determine ability scores if they have a LA listed (planar cohort, thrall), else, if the ally has no LA (paladin mount, wizard familiar, etc) it uses the abilities presented in their entry, modified by whatever bonus it gets from being a class ally. Does "otherwise noted" mean since it says 24 hours in class description I just get it? I had argued that point many moons ago but was told that a quest was required...
McJarvis 12-05-06, 01:36 PM	I thought I read somewhere that all cohorts require a quest - even for a thrall. Does "otherwise noted" mean since it says 24 hours in class description I just get it? I had argued that point many moons ago but was told that a quest was required... An epic quest to...wait 24 hours perhaps? :-)
hogarth 12-05-06, 01:37 PM	I thought I read somewhere that all cohorts require a quest - even for a thrall. Does "otherwise noted" mean since it says 24 hours in class description I just get it? I had argued that point many moons ago but was told that a quest was required... I can't remember whose interpretation it was (MWB?), but they were saying that "Unless otherwise noted the character must go on a Quest [..]" meant "Unless there is a game-mechanical description of how to acquire the class ally (like there is for animal companions, familiars, paladin mounts, thralls and planar cohorts), the character must go on a Quest [..]". Note that later on in the Rules it implies that a miniquest is required to get a new animal companion (even though I have seen people say the opposite): Why MiniQuests? Two reasons. Not everyone wants to pitlord fights or audit characters to gain credits but that would also mean he could never obtain an animal companion, or take the leadership feat. You should probably ask in the "Oracle" thread.
McJarvis 12-05-06, 02:02 PM	I do not understand this....always before I've seen the Hierophant as less-powerful than the archmage, but perhaps having applications in its own right. ("Power of Nature" has cool uses with party members and wild shape...) But... Spell Power: This special ability increases a hierophant’s effective caster level by 1 for purposes of determining level-dependent spell variables and for caster level checks. This ability can be selected more than once, and changes to effective caster level are cumulative. How does that even come close to making sense as an ability? :(. Even in Epic levels taking a level of cleric will do just as much. Surely there must be a correction somewhere out there that gives heirophant half caster progression or something...?
hogarth 12-05-06, 02:09 PM	I do not understand this....always before I've seen the Hierophant as less-powerful than the archmage, but perhaps having applications in its own right. ("Power of Nature" has cool uses with party members and wild shape...) How does [Spell Power] even come close to making sense as an ability? :(. Even in Epic levels taking a level of cleric will do just as much. Surely there must be a correction somewhere out there that gives heirophant half caster progression or something...? Note that Hierophant levels count as caster levels, too. So a Cleric 15/Hierophant 1 is a 17th level caster if they take that ability. It sucks, but not quite as much as your interpretation.
McJarvis 12-05-06, 02:11 PM	Note that Hierophant levels count as caster levels, too. So a Cleric 15/Hierophant 1 is a 17th level caster if they take that ability. It sucks, but not quite as much as your interpretation. Ah! that makes much more sense :) Thanks...that makes the Heirophant pretty attractive at epic levels.
MindWandererB 12-05-06, 02:30 PM	I can't remember whose interpretation it was (MWB?), but they were saying that "Unless otherwise noted the character must go on a Quest [..]" meant "Unless there is a game-mechanical description of how to acquire the class ally (like there is for animal companions, familiars, paladin mounts, thralls and planar cohorts), the character must go on a Quest [..]". Note that later on in the Rules it implies that a miniquest is required to get a new animal companion (even though I have seen people say the opposite): You should probably ask in the "Oracle" thread.I did say that, but I was paraphrasing someone else, in turn. I don't remember who; may have been Telin or NiQil. So... i can't take the feats...? :raincloud This could complicate things...I'm not 100% confident I recall the results of that discussion correctly. Certainly it didn't make it into the court decisions, so we have to go with RAW. I think RAI is different, but we'd need something formal to cover that.
McJarvis 12-05-06, 02:32 PM	As I recall, that discussion ended up with a general concencus of Centaurs being "Centaur like", and thus qualifying the same way that inevitible does. Then MWB did a run down of the different mounted feats and what specifically happened with each of them on the Centaur.
MindWandererB 12-05-06, 02:51 PM	As I recall, that discussion ended up with a general concencus of Centaurs being "Centaur like", and thus qualifying the same way that inevitible does. Then MWB did a run down of the different mounted feats and what specifically happened with each of them on the Centaur. That's what I recalled, too, except that the discussion sort of trickled off at that point, and no official ruling was made. And it would require a Court Decision to allow it. Which I would be in favor of, BTW.
NiQil 12-05-06, 04:01 PM	With regard to the animal companion thing... Yes, Telin and I had that out with Cat a long time ago when I first started here...I can never get him to update that clause the says unless otherwise stated, but in short that clause is referring to class allies that already say how to acquire them. For familiars it's the ritual, for animal companion's it's the 24 thing, for paladin mounts it's just calling them....basically any class ally that has a description of how it is acquired does not need to be quested for.
hogarth 12-05-06, 04:02 PM	With regard to the animal companion thing... Yes, Telin and I had that out with Cat a long time ago when I first started here...I can never get him to update that clause the says unless otherwise stated, but in short that clause is referring to class allies that already say how to acquire them. For familiars it's the ritual, for animal companion's it's the 24 thing, for paladin mounts it's just calling them....basically any class ally that has a description of how it is acquired does not need to be quested for. Uh...can anyone think of an example of a class ally that doesn't have a description of how it is acquired?
NiQil 12-05-06, 04:09 PM	Uh...can anyone think of an example of a class ally that doesn't have a description of how it is acquired? Here's one that might qualify: The Blackguard’s Fiendish Servant Upon or after reaching 5th level, a blackguard can call a fiendish bat, cat, dire rat, horse, pony, raven, or toad to serve him. Since it doesn't reference summoning or a ritual or anything, just calling it, it could be argued that a miniquest would be required here. I personally would not require it, but it could be argued that way.
hogarth 12-05-06, 04:16 PM	Here's one that might qualify: [Blackguard fiendish servant] Since it doesn't reference summoning or a ritual or anything, just calling it, it could be argued that a miniquest would be required here. I personally would not require it, but it could be argued that way. Ah. I guess a fallen paladin's "undead companion" would qualify too.
McJarvis 12-05-06, 04:16 PM	The Blackguard's servant is somewhat unique IMO, though, because it isn't just one imparticular creature. (it is merely limited as "only one creature at a time") Thought the lack of any time-table is confusing-> I'd be inclined to say it's a full round action to call a creature, but I really don't have any basis for that at all. edit-> I guess there are no rules for dismissing one, though? Hum....perhaps I was using the imagery of a paladin summoning his mount too much in my head...
spasheridan 12-05-06, 04:22 PM	Cool. Then I'll have Legion sit out while I craft a thrall for him.
Zevox 12-05-06, 07:26 PM	Uh...can anyone think of an example of a class ally that doesn't have a description of how it is acquired? A Shadowdancer's Shadow Companion doesn't either. Zevox
nightbanegod 12-05-06, 09:10 PM	is there any rule against purchasing higher caster lvl potions? like a cure light wounds that heals 1d8+5? just wondering....
MindWandererB 12-05-06, 09:20 PM	is there any rule against purchasing higher caster lvl potions? like a cure light wounds that heals 1d8+5? just wondering.... Costs ya credits. See the Black Market for details.
nightbanegod 12-05-06, 11:52 PM	Costs ya credits. See the Black Market for details. well with what i understand... i could purchase a 1d8+3 being equal CL to my ECL without any credit costs....sweet... duely noted for another time...
NiQil 12-05-06, 11:57 PM	well with what i understand... i could purchase a 1d8+3 being equal CL to my ECL without any credit costs....sweet... duely noted for another time... Incorrect. You can craft a potion with the CL equal to your CL, but you can only purchase potions without credit cost in the form in which they are listed in the SRD. The only CLW potion that you can purchase without credits will provide you with 1d8+1 hp worth of healing.
Zevox 12-05-06, 11:58 PM	well with what i understand... i could purchase a 1d8+3 being equal CL to my ECL without any credit costs....sweet... duely noted for another time... Nope. Any potion not on the list in the SRD at the CL in the SRD costs you credits (though you can craft at any CL if you had the feat, but nobody would take that over Scribe Scroll) - you're just also limited to ones with a CL no greater than your ECL. Though if you wanted, a Rogue-type with good Gather Information could purchase such potions without credit cost, though it'd be a couple of free actions to get each. And personally I'd say paying an extra 50 gp for each +1 of healing isn't worth it to begin with, but I guess thats your call. Zevox
McJarvis 12-05-06, 11:58 PM	You and NiQil are stepping on each others toes tonight :)
TheMagister 12-06-06, 12:10 AM	Heads up! Sdentch will be guild-questing (no credits, but a three-week full quest) to "recover goods" for WAR! She's a ton of fun to questlord, with a smash-first-ask-questions-later kind of mentality. If she's not active by fight week (Dec 13th) then WAR's gonna start taking gp penalties the week after, so I'd like to get this outta the way. Roleplay possibilities are endless, though I'd prefer something that deals with hurting the Denthian church (we have something of a rivalry going), something that hinders CEF's intrusion into Gawane District (which WAR sees [or is politically spinning] as a heavy-handed and coldly dispassionate grab for more power) such as the roleplay opening to the creation of another band of Freedom Fighters, or furthers her connection with the god of travel and roads, Farlanghan (who she seems to have charmed with her straightforwardness and simplicity). Still, if something else grabs your fancy, I'm up for that, too. Thanks in advance, and notify me here in the Tavern or by PM so that I can set my title line before Wednesday the 6th! Thanks! TM Bump! Erithmu picked it up. Thanks 'Rith! TM
UserNamer 12-06-06, 10:44 AM	Montana (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10006473&postcount=918) is looking for a questlord for a miniquest for a small air elemental. Is there anyone who would like to run this?
McJarvis 12-06-06, 01:08 PM	Do you have to pay credits to craft custom +skill items? If so, can you use gather information to offset this?
hogarth 12-06-06, 01:11 PM	Do you have to pay credits to craft custom +skill items? If so, can you use gather information to offset this? My opinion: yes, it would cost credits, and I imagine you could pay with Gather Info instead. Note that you need X ranks in a skill to craft a +X skill item.
McJarvis 12-06-06, 01:14 PM	My opinion: yes, it would cost credits, and I imagine you could pay with Gather Info instead. Note that you need X ranks in a skill to craft a +X skill item. Yeah, no problem..this is a bard crafting them :-) How does the black market connections work with crafting? they're both a free activity
TelinArtho 12-06-06, 01:22 PM	It does cost credits to craft them - 5 to be exact - but I'll have to look up whether you can use GI to negate this credit cost. [EDIT] It appears to not be explicitly mentioned. I would PM Cat or Pitlords about it to be sure, but I think it would be okay.
UserNamer 12-06-06, 01:25 PM	Question 1: Before the character has a first fight it gets all times it wants right? So could one become very rich using ther Craft skills making items, then using the Sell Item skill to sell it for a higher price? Question 2: Are you allowed to sell self-crafted items using the Sell Item skill?
McJarvis 12-06-06, 01:26 PM	It does cost credits to craft them - 5 to be exact - but I'll have to look up whether you can use GI to negate this credit cost. [EDIT] It appears to not be explicitly mentioned. I would PM Cat or Pitlords about it to be sure, but I think it would be okay. Still brings up the question of what kind of action this would take. Can I combine them as 1 free action...for free? lol I'll send that PM out
hogarth 12-06-06, 01:28 PM	Question 1: Before the character has a first fight it gets all times it wants right? So could one become very rich using ther Craft skills making items, then using the Sell Item skill to sell it for a higher price? Only certain skills can be used before you enter the Coliseum (animal training and crafting items, I think). You could probably get a one-time boost of income by using Sell Item on pre-crafted stuff (10% of your 3000 gp starting wealth, maybe). Question 2: Are you allowed to sell self-crafted items using the Sell Item skill? I think so; that's why Reginald Molehusband is building up his Appraise skill...
hogarth 12-06-06, 01:31 PM	Still brings up the question of what kind of action this would take. Can I combine them as 1 free action...for free? lol I'll send that PM out I'd say it would use one free action to gather the raw materials followed by your next free action to do the actual crafting.
TelinArtho 12-06-06, 01:32 PM	Question 1: Before the character has a first fight it gets all times it wants right? So could one become very rich using ther Craft skills making items, then using the Sell Item skill to sell it for a higher price? Since crafting for money is a free activity that must be linked to a fight (can't be active without it, etc) - then no. Question 2: Are you allowed to sell self-crafted items using the Sell Item skill? I see no exemption in the skill for that. That should be fine. Likewise, since sell item is a free activity - you must be active in a fight to make use of it (so no infinite source of money here either). If someone does abuse it - you can bet it will be quashed quickly...
hogarth 12-06-06, 01:36 PM	Since crafting for money is a free activity that must be linked to a fight (can't be active without it, etc) - then no. He's not talking about crafting for money, per se -- he's talking about crafting armor (for instance), selling that armor with Sell Item, and then crafting more armor and selling it, and repeating the cycle, ad nauseum. However, presumably the Sell Item activity has to be linked as well so it wouldn't work for infinite money generation.
TelinArtho 12-06-06, 01:37 PM	Right - that's my response to the second question (the first I did misread - but it is true nonetheless :) )
Macbrea 12-06-06, 02:19 PM	I have a silly question. If a wizard 13/archmage 1 has spell like ability: Limited wish 2/day. He uses the limited wish to cast a Disintegrate spell on his opponent. With a cost of -300xp (coco additional cost of -1212 gp). Does that gold have to be on the person at the time of casting the spell or is it taken from the winnings of the person during the fight?
TelinArtho 12-06-06, 02:25 PM	Although it has little to do with the spell-like ability - the answer is the caster must have the cash on him/her when the spell is cast. If the caster only has 1200gp at the start of the fight - I would be of the opinion he would not be able to cast the spell.
hogarth 12-06-06, 02:31 PM	What is the method for replacing a familiar in Living Gladius? According to the rules, if you dismiss your old familiar you lose some xp and you can't recruit a new one for "a year and a day". So does a gladiator lose xp and gp as well? Do they have to wait 52 weeks to replace it? (Note: it looks like the gladiator Vivi replaced one familiar with another at some point, but I doubt that Dr. Funk waited 52 weeks to do so.)
TelinArtho 12-06-06, 02:33 PM	Dr Funk asked me about it before he did it - and he double-checked with Cat before he did through PM. Familiars can be replaced between 3FCs. I'm not sure about the xp/gp consequences of it - but they should probably still be there as well (in which case, he may need to pay for those).
Macbrea 12-06-06, 02:54 PM	Well originally question I was curious on the Wizard 13/Archmage 1 with Limited wish 2/day. Assuming he uses the wish for lesser planar ally of 6HD. He ends up spending 60,300 xp + (243,612gp) to wish for a Nightmare ally for a personal body guard? He technically ends up paying the gold->exp cost twice. Once for Limited wish spell like ability and again for coco house rule? Hey, I have problem found the most expensive way to get an ally!
hogarth 12-06-06, 03:01 PM	Dr Funk asked me about it before he did it - and he double-checked with Cat before he did through PM. Familiars can be replaced between 3FCs. I'm not sure about the xp/gp consequences of it - but they should probably still be there as well (in which case, he may need to pay for those). The penalty for dismissing a familiar is the same as if one dies -- 200 xp/level, DC 15 save for 1/2 "damage".
Gonbow 12-06-06, 03:18 PM	The penalty for dismissing a familiar is the same as if one dies -- 200 xp/level, DC 15 save for 1/2 "damage". All of which, the nimbus absorbs if the familiar dies in the arena or other arena maps. However, I don't think it absorbs the dismissal, so it's probably not worth it to ever dismiss a familiar, as you'll lose a large chunk of XP and gold.
Zevox 12-06-06, 03:24 PM	Re: Familiars - What I recall being told was that Cat decided that switching familiars could be done for free between cycles here (this was when Dr. Funk made his switch). Do you have to pay credits to craft custom +skill items? If so, can you use gather information to offset this? Yes and yes. Custom items always cost credits, and Gather Information lets you ignore credit costs on anything that costs gold so long as it falls within its gp limitations. Question 1: Before the character has a first fight it gets all times it wants right? So could one become very rich using ther Craft skills making items, then using the Sell Item skill to sell it for a higher price? Question 2: Are you allowed to sell self-crafted items using the Sell Item skill? 1: No. Since Sell Item is a free activity that cannot be done before character activation (only Crafting and teaching animals tricks can), you could not do such a thing. 2. Yes. The skill doesn't exclude it, so thats fair game. Remember that the two are different activities though, so it'll take you two weeks to craft the item then sell it. You might want to consider if it wouldn't be better to just use both of those weeks making money with a single craft/profession/perform skill. Zevox
TelinArtho 12-06-06, 03:32 PM	Some will apreciate this more than others: Dungeons & Dragons: The Complete Animated Series (http://www.the-trades.com/article.php?id=4993)
hogarth 12-06-06, 03:32 PM	2. Yes. The skill doesn't exclude it, so thats fair game. Remember that the two are different activities though, so it'll take you two weeks to craft the item then sell it. You might want to consider if it wouldn't be better to just use both of those weeks making money with a single craft/profession/perform skill. Note that Reginald Molehusband's plan is to craft a ~7000 gp dorje with a full activity between cycles and then sell it at the end of the cycle after using it a few times (and then repeating the process). It should net him up to 700 gp per cycle; not a huge amount, but it's better than the 0 gp per cycle he's earning now!
Milov 12-06-06, 04:35 PM	QUESTLORD WANTED For a miniquest, preferably on December 13th, to get The Mask Man a handle animal ally, PM me for details.
Hrothmund 12-06-06, 06:06 PM	In a team battle are the members of a team allowed to discuss tactics prior to sending their individual tactics into the pitlord?
McJarvis 12-06-06, 06:07 PM	In a team battle are the members of a team allowed to discuss tactics prior to sending their individual tactics into the pitlord? Team battles at ECL 3 are not allowed, and this pairing was a mistake. A new pairing will be up shortly. edit-> for instance, right now. :)
Erithmu 12-06-06, 06:15 PM	In a team battle are the members of a team allowed to discuss tactics prior to sending their individual tactics into the pitlord?But as a general rule, yes they can. I have seen situations where a team will craft one set of tactics and send those rather than 2 individuals ones.
MindWandererB 12-06-06, 09:29 PM	Some will apreciate this more than others: Dungeons & Dragons: The Complete Animated Series (http://www.the-trades.com/article.php?id=4993) Didn't comment on this earlier, but I bought this as it was en route to the shelves (per my wife's instructions, no less!). The neatest part is the Animated Series Handbook, a little tiny hardcover book that comes with it, that has stats for all the PCs, their magic items, and the villains.
McJarvis 12-06-06, 09:41 PM	If a combatent has multiple animal allies, does s/he need to make seperate handle animal actions to get them moving/attacking? (Other than defend trick, which is a free action)
Zevox 12-06-06, 10:10 PM	If a combatent has multiple animal allies, does s/he need to make seperate handle animal actions to get them moving/attacking? (Other than defend trick, which is a free action) Of course. Zevox
Guildmaster_LOY 12-06-06, 10:34 PM	Sigh. Unless we can convince another ECL 7+ character to join LOY, I doubt LOY will be able to make a bid for that artifact.... :(
Hrothmund 12-07-06, 12:03 AM	Can someone tell me why all of the maps are so spread out? Does it not make sense that one of the 8 or 9 maps be a 30'x30' room? I mean heavy infantry in full plate is the backbone of the party in D&D. It seems pretty rare in Living Gladius. So many builds are based on mobility and archery. What is the difference between the arena/plains/sewers/temple maps in terms of being able to run away from an opponent? Should there not be one map where if you can not go toe to toe with a bruiser or neutralize them with a spell you are going to lose?
McJarvis 12-07-06, 12:05 AM	Can someone tell me why all of the maps are so spread out? Does it not make sense that one of the 8 or 9 maps be a 30'x30' room? I mean heavy infantry in full plate is the backbone of the party in D&D. It seems pretty rare in Living Gladius. So many builds are based on mobility and archery. What is the difference between the arena/plains/sewers/temple maps in terms of being able to run away from an opponent? Should there not be one map where if you can not go toe to toe with a bruiser or neutralize them with a spell you are going to lose? I believe the intent is so that no one build will auto-win on a certain map. If a map was truely as small as you say, at some levels it would merely be a matter of who won initiative. Granted, when you do it this way who wins initiative doesn't really matter that much...
Zevox 12-07-06, 12:16 AM	Can someone tell me why all of the maps are so spread out? Does it not make sense that one of the 8 or 9 maps be a 30'x30' room? I mean heavy infantry in full plate is the backbone of the party in D&D. It seems pretty rare in Living Gladius. So many builds are based on mobility and archery. What is the difference between the arena/plains/sewers/temple maps in terms of being able to run away from an opponent? Should there not be one map where if you can not go toe to toe with a bruiser or neutralize them with a spell you are going to lose? Mainly because in such a map, not only do super-alpha-strike-tank sorts essentially automatically win against any non-tank foe (the same can't be said for any other character type on any other map), but a fight between two non-tanks in such a map would be boring as hell. Not to mention the troubles of monster fights or FFAs on maps that small. Also, we have a little issue where Cat doesn't like maps having automatic 1st-turn LoS (the only reason the Plains do is because of the extreme distance is my guess). We've got the Cavern if you want a map where its tough to take maximum advantage of high mobility (enclosed spaces, statues everywhere, the pond in the middle), and the sewer is highly limiting on ones ability to keep ranged due to LoS obscurements at longer distances. The forest has the same to a lesser degree due to its many trees, and both of those maps limit mobility due to thier difficult terrain (undergrowth, impeded flight, the bog, and streams in the forest; water, grates, and low ceiling [no flying out of melee reach there] in the sewer). The forest of course is also condusive to sneaks at the same time, but thats another story. I can tell you right now that its a lot scarier for someone to face my Archdevil Asran in the sewer or cavern than just about anywhere else, and theres no way I'd want a map that gives him even more of an edge than those do, because that'd just be unfair. Zevox
Hrothmund 12-07-06, 12:16 AM	I believe the intent is so that no one build will auto-win on a certain map. If a map was truely as small as you say, at some levels it would merely be a matter of who won initiative. I understand that problem, but it seems that mobility is so over-favored by the maps that heavy infantry builds have been artificially deemphasized and mounted archers have been atificially emphasized.
Guildmaster_LOY 12-07-06, 12:20 AM	I understand that problem, but it seems that mobility is so over-favored by the maps that heavy infantry builds have been artificially deemphasized and mounted archers have been atificially emphasized. Find a way to remove their mounts. That's what at least two of my builds are focused on...
McJarvis 12-07-06, 12:48 AM	Note- Somebody said once that Protection from Evil blocks psionic dominate. I do not see why. Protection from evil stops "Enchantment (compulsion)" effects, but Psionic Dominate is a "Telepathy (compulsion)" effect. Transparancy does not extend this far, to my knowledge.( Telepathy != Enchantment )
Zevox 12-07-06, 01:03 AM	@ MWB/Guildlords - Quick question on the world event. It would be possible to send an ECL 9 character on it, correct? In which case the character would get a surprise round before each fight? Zevox
MindWandererB 12-07-06, 03:33 AM	@ MWB/Guildlords - Quick question on the world event. It would be possible to send an ECL 9 character on it, correct? In which case the character would get a surprise round before each fight? ZevoxExactly. Note- Somebody said once that Protection from Evil blocks psionic dominate. I do not see why. Protection from evil stops "Enchantment (compulsion)" effects, but Psionic Dominate is a "Telepathy (compulsion)" effect. Transparancy does not extend this far, to my knowledge.( Telepathy != Enchantment )Actually, Telepathy = Enchantment. XPH p. 58: "For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, telepathy powers are equivalent to [spells] of the enchantment school (thus, creatures resistant to enchantment spells, such as elves or monks, are equally resistant to telepathy powers)." Sigh. Unless we can convince another ECL 7+ character to join LOY, I doubt LOY will be able to make a bid for that artifact.... :(Sure you can. The ECL 10 was deliberately chosen with what each guild had. LOY can send Tatyana and Poe as a team.
Gonbow 12-07-06, 05:16 AM	Sure you can. The ECL 10 was deliberately chosen with what each guild had. LOY can send Tatyana and Poe as a team. As a note, Tatyana is now ECL 8, while Poe is still ECL 7. (Aside from making sending them as a team more complicated, this is also noted because the current Guild Actions has Tatyana collecting taxes at ECL 7, when she is in fact doing so at ECL 8)
MitzaVolchenko 12-07-06, 05:32 AM	I believe the intent is so that no one build will auto-win on a certain map. If a map was truely as small as you say, at some levels it would merely be a matter of who won initiative. Granted, when you do it this way who wins initiative doesn't really matter that much... Sure it does...winning initiative means you bleed out first :P That is inscribed on my gm'ing notebook along with "There is nothing quite as embarassing as being beaten to death by a raging pixie."
Hirumajoe 12-07-06, 08:24 AM	Sure it does...winning initiative means you bleed out first :P That is inscribed on my gm'ing notebook along with "There is nothing quite as embarassing as being beaten to death by a raging pixie." I suddenly have an urge to make a Barbarian pixie... Maybe slap in a few levels of Psychic warrior to get Animal Affinity - Strength and grab a Suppression weapon to remove see invisibility... Now only if I had lots of credits... Edit: Actually make that a Adamantine Greatsword of Suppression and add in the Power Attack and Sunder Feats. Bye bye cold iron weapon!
Zevox 12-07-06, 09:14 AM	@ MWB - Actually, since these are missions we're talking about, wouldn't it take 4 CAPs to send a two-person team on them? Thats rather impossible for anyone without a Main Hall (as LOY is). Zevox
McJarvis 12-07-06, 10:30 AM	@ MWB - Actually, since these are missions we're talking about, wouldn't it take 4 CAPs to send a two-person team on them? Thats rather impossible for anyone without a Main Hall (as LOY is). Zevox I assumed those rules were waived since the Guildlords post specifically says you can spend 1 CAP to send up to three people. @MWB: What I meant to say, is that without at least one more ECL7+ character it will be a much greater challenge for LOY than other guilds..especially considering that once we get close, someone like the CEF could just intercept with ECL 10 guys and wipe us out...and this isn't even covering the fact that LOY will be more or less defenseless while our only two high level chracters are questing. Sigh. I don't think anything can be done though-> making the world quest an EL 4 quest would be stupid...LOY will just have to get their level 3/4's up there with the big boys over time & deal with dissapointment in the meantime
McJarvis 12-07-06, 10:50 AM	FYI for all those active right now. Forums go down in 5 mins. edit-> ....or the times they put up could be wrong. :-O
TelinArtho 12-07-06, 11:12 AM	I understand that problem, but it seems that mobility is so over-favored by the maps that heavy infantry builds have been artificially deemphasized and mounted archers have been atificially emphasized. I actually have a fair number of melee monsters that come to my mind. However, if you are slow - you need to find a way to force your opponent to melee. For Farig, Sir Valkin, Ambellon the Calm, the Countess Ural - they all use mounts to do it. They are not mounted archers but rather mounted melee characters who use ranged attacks when they have to. With Sir Valkin's 90ft speed on the ground - he can usually force melee unless his opponent reaches the air. That said - having a decent ranged attack is almost necessary unless you have a way to also negate flight at ECL5+. Most of my warriors used crossbows until they started facing flyers with deflect arrows or similar other problems - so that's why they are now equipped with bows. Every one of my clerics have a 20ft move (well - not all of them - but a lot of them) - but they make use of their spells and summons to gain the advantage they need. Zax uses his allies to do his dirty work (and admittedly - he will surrender if his allies die - so they are my opponents' best targets usually...). The arena setting is not just about being great at one and only one thing. If you do, you will be set up in a situation where it is either an auto-win (when your opponent can't counter your great thing) or an auto-loss (when they can). Some people focus on the one great thing - others tend to take a more broad approach. What I can say is there is a lot of variety out there - you just need to have more experience with the characters... And if you think there are no heavy melee hitters, you can always take a look at Jar-red...
McJarvis 12-07-06, 11:21 AM	Price check-> Circlet of Persuasion is a magic item that gives a +3 competence bonus to all charisma related checks. It costs 4,500gp. Now +skill items always use the skill bonus squared. So 4,500/32 = 500. Does that mean a reasonable formula for + to a certain type of check is (Bonus Squared) * 500 ? next question: How many credits would it take to get custom items in this fashion? 5 because it's a custom skill item that is easily calculatable?
TelinArtho 12-07-06, 11:25 AM	That's a tough one. For instance, tripping is a strength check, as are many combat maneuvers - so I would be a little more hesitant to apply this to an item that would affect str or dex in particular. If this is just for int or wis though, it might be okay - or you could restrict it to ability related skill checks - and I would certainly have no problem with it. What were you looking for? And yes - it would be 5 credits for an item based on an existing item.
McJarvis 12-07-06, 11:27 AM	That's a tough one. For instance, tripping is a strength check, as are many combat maneuvers - so I would be a little more hesitant to apply this to an item that would affect str or dex in particular. If this is just for int or wis though, it might be okay - or you could restrict it to ability related skill checks - and I would certainly have no problem with it. What were you looking for? And yes - it would be 5 credits for an item based on an existing item. I'm looking for the +Cha based item, but it'd be useful to know if the same applies for other stat-types. (Imagine the knowledge checks!) edit-> Agreed on Str/Dex. Perhaps it[the forumula] could only be used for Con/Int/Wis/Cha?
hogarth 12-07-06, 11:31 AM	Re: the circlet of persuasion. I really dislike reverse-engineering prices for which there is no formula (e.g. like TelinArtho and Caterane did for the charging feature of the Rhino Hide armor) because there's no basis for it in the Core rules, but Cat might go for it.
MindWandererB 12-07-06, 02:40 PM	As a note, Tatyana is now ECL 8, while Poe is still ECL 7. (Aside from making sending them as a team more complicated, this is also noted because the current Guild Actions has Tatyana collecting taxes at ECL 7, when she is in fact doing so at ECL 8)<shrug> Not so bad. Mixed-ECL teams aren't all that uncommon in quests. Poe gets a surprise round in every fight, is all, and I'm sure he'd appreciate it. @ MWB - Actually, since these are missions we're talking about, wouldn't it take 4 CAPs to send a two-person team on them? Thats rather impossible for anyone without a Main Hall (as LOY is).As McJarvis said, that requirement is being waived. I am hoping that the fact that many of these will be multiplayer, combined with the fact that there will be a lot of interceptions, will keep the expenditure of pitlords down.
Gonbow 12-07-06, 05:25 PM	Speaking of interceptions... Assuming one of these attempts gets into it's 4th week, how does that interact with 3FC stuff? Do they refresh between #3 and #4 mid-quest? Or not at all, getting progressively weaker the longer they take to get the job done?
MindWandererB 12-07-06, 05:47 PM	Speaking of interceptions... Assuming one of these attempts gets into it's 4th week, how does that interact with 3FC stuff? Do they refresh between #3 and #4 mid-quest? Or not at all, getting progressively weaker the longer they take to get the job done? Like all guild missions, they can be begun in the middle of a 3FC (and two team members may even be at different stages of their own cycles), and they are "refreshed" whenever their own 3rd fight in the cycle is done. They can even go shopping, although they won't have any new money to spend until the entire quest is over one way or the other.
Vathelokai 12-07-06, 10:36 PM	General announcement: My day sucked. I just got home (a mere 14 hours after leaving for work this morning). I'm working on my quest stuff, which should be up shortly.
Krytos 12-08-06, 12:03 AM	General announcement: My day sucked. I just got home (a mere 14 hours after leaving for work this morning). I'm working on my quest stuff, which should be up shortly. 14 hours? Thats rough man. Hope you get a break soon.
Vathelokai 12-08-06, 01:34 AM	At least it wasn't all at work; some of it was changing flat tires. and grocery shopping. and... :weep: Anyway, I think I'm caught up on all the quests and emails and fight tactics and other stuff. If I missed you send me a PM, 'cause I didn't know you needed anything.
Erithmu 12-08-06, 10:54 AM	Questions regarding the World Event: Mission encounters: Is Guildlords going to roll on the ECL 10 monster chart for each week and then pass that along to the missionlords, or does each missionlord roll up an encounter for each week on the chart? If it is mixed ECL (Team of 2x ECL8 or ECL8+ECL7) do we roll on those charts instead? In other words: is it a universal challenge (same monster for everyone) or challenge that varies upon dice (different monsters for each team). Intercepts: Are there intercepts allowed before the mission even starts IE: teams announced and then next week intercepts start before the mission begins? Or is there a one week grace period. I am assuming that whoever is the missionlord for the guild is running that fight (Ex: CEF intercepts WAR, WAR missionlord runs the fight in thread.) How will double intercepts work? (Ex: CEF and TLT intercept EHTC in the same week) Are Guilds allowed to have more than one 'team' going for the goal? IE can a guild spend two CAPs and send two ECL 10 chars? Can Guilds send a second team if the first team is defeated? Can they use the same character? If a character is interrupted and falls out of the running and are not frozen, do they gain XP for any encounters they have overcome so far? Or do they gain xp for each encounter and level up in the process of the mission? Just asking for clarification reasons.
Hirumajoe 12-08-06, 01:44 PM	So I've added Kai Engel as an ECL 3 character to the Characters of Gladius thread. He can be found here. If people want to take a look over him before I spend all my hard earned credits (all 10 of 'em :) ), it'd be appreciated. Only really major changes from the Uncon version is the lower level and the focus on Crafting and Spot, rather than going all out on the Ambush package and getting lots of hide ranks. Suggestions and ideas are always welcome. Thanks.
MindWandererB 12-08-06, 02:57 PM	Questions regarding the World Event: Mission encounters: Is Guildlords going to roll on the ECL 10 monster chart for each week and then pass that along to the missionlords, or does each missionlord roll up an encounter for each week on the chart? If it is mixed ECL (Team of 2x ECL8 or ECL8+ECL7) do we roll on those charts instead? In other words: is it a universal challenge (same monster for everyone) or challenge that varies upon dice (different monsters for each team).The questlord rolls the encounter (in the CoCo roller, please, and un-private the rolls when the fight is done), and is different for each team. However, you always roll on the EL 10 chart. Intercepts: Are there intercepts allowed before the mission even starts IE: teams announced and then next week intercepts start before the mission begins? Or is there a one week grace period. I am assuming that whoever is the missionlord for the guild is running that fight (Ex: CEF intercepts WAR, WAR missionlord runs the fight in thread.) How will double intercepts work? (Ex: CEF and TLT intercept EHTC in the same week)This is sort of addressed in the guild post, but let me give you an example. Dec. 13 CAP: CEF announces that Uhme is going solo on the event. Dec. 13 CAP Reactions: EHTC and WAR both move to intercept, with Undertaker, Annalina, and Indrithia (who get a surprise round) and Featylec (who gets a random monster handicap ally), respectively. Guildlords rolls initiative for the two intercepting teams; the winner fights Uhme on Dec. 20, the loser fights him on Dec. 27. If Uhme beats all challengers, he fights monsters on Jan. 3 and 10. Jan. 10 CAP Reactions: WAR tries to intercept Uhme again. The battle takes place Jan. 17. If Uhme wins, he faces a monster on Jan. 24, and if he wins, he wins the event (if no one else beat him to it). Got it? Are Guilds allowed to have more than one 'team' going for the goal? IE can a guild spend two CAPs and send two ECL 10 chars?No. One team at a time per guild. Can Guilds send a second team if the first team is defeated? Can they use the same character?If your first team fails, you can send a second, but then you may not have enough time to reach the goal before the time limit, if you are intercepted. You can send the same character if you like, but if you were beaten in an interception, there's no reason why the same interceptor can't be sent right back at you. If a character is interrupted and falls out of the running and are not frozen, do they gain XP for any encounters they have overcome so far? Or do they gain xp for each encounter and level up in the process of the mission?When the quest ends, in failure, success, or abortion, you are awarded XP and gold if you're not frozen, even the loser award for a failed monster fight. Thus, you cannot level up during the mission, but leveling up when it's over is quite probable.
Erithmu 12-08-06, 03:09 PM	Is there a max of 3 intercepts per team?
MindWandererB 12-08-06, 04:04 PM	Is there a max of 3 intercepts per team? Pretty much. It's a max of 1 intercept before every 1 monster fight, unless they get double-booked. If they get double-booked before their 3rd monster fight, then an initiative check decides who gets to go. Thus, you can't have Monster/Monster/Intercept/Intercept/Intercept/Monster.
Erithmu 12-08-06, 04:16 PM	I'm asking most of these as they probably will come up. What happens in the case of a guild team having been intercepted 2x and then getting a double intercept. Init gets the fight, other gets kicked to the curb? Does a guild team reach the artifact after the 3rd monster fight? Ie: after the 3rd monster is defeated, then the guild team gets the prize pending ties. ex (3rd monster): Team LOY is on 4th week having defeated 2 monsters + 1 intercept, week 4 they face the last monster. Can an opposing guild then intercept in week 5 to delay LOY or does LOY complete the mission, assuming they win week 4?
McJarvis 12-08-06, 04:19 PM	I'm asking most of these as they probably will come up. What happens in the case of a guild team having been intercepted 2x and then getting a double intercept. Init gets the fight, other gets kicked to the curb? Does a guild team reach the artifact after the 3rd monster fight? Ie: after the 3rd monster is defeated, then the guild team gets the prize pending ties. ex (3rd monster): Team LOY is on 4th week having defeated 2 monsters + 1 intercept, week 4 they face the last monster. Can an opposing guild then intercept in week 5 to delay LOY or does LOY complete the mission, assuming they win week 4? ...but no one is going to intercept team LOY, because we're underdogs.... :angel:
Erithmu 12-08-06, 04:23 PM	...but no one is going to intercept team LOY, because we're underdogs.... :angel:..... Is that because your not going to get past week one or .... what are you trying to say there? :angelhide
MindWandererB 12-08-06, 04:28 PM	I'm asking most of these as they probably will come up. What happens in the case of a guild team having been intercepted 2x and then getting a double intercept. Init gets the fight, other gets kicked to the curb?I don't see any other way around it at present. Ideas are welcomed. Does a guild team reach the artifact after the 3rd monster fight? Ie: after the 3rd monster is defeated, then the guild team gets the prize pending ties. ex (3rd monster): Team LOY is on 4th week having defeated 2 monsters + 1 intercept, week 4 they face the last monster. Can an opposing guild then intercept in week 5 to delay LOY or does LOY complete the mission, assuming they win week 4?LOY wins in that case. Once the 3rd monster fight is declared, there's nothing anyone else can do about it except tie, if they're on their third monster fight as well.
Erithmu 12-08-06, 04:36 PM	Re: the '4th' intercept option: Give the guild team the option of monster fight or the intercept, with the intercept counting as the place of the monster fight. RP perspective, the intercept team already took down the monster but guild team walks in at the end of it. For the sake of intercept fights: can all teams start in the same square since this is a 'planned team event' and it would make more sense from an adventuring standpoint.
MindWandererB 12-08-06, 04:43 PM	Re: the '4th' intercept option: Give the guild team the option of monster fight or the intercept, with the intercept counting as the place of the monster fight. RP perspective, the intercept team already took down the monster but guild team walks in at the end of it. For the sake of intercept fights: can all teams start in the same square since this is a 'planned team event' and it would make more sense from an adventuring standpoint. 4th intercept: Interesting idea. I'll run it by Cat. Teams in starting square: I don't really see how it's any different than any other team fight this way. Besides, maybe the team split up to try to ambush the opponent, or something.
Krytos 12-08-06, 09:52 PM	If there's a large creature on the forest map, can he use the path to move at full speed?
Zevox 12-08-06, 10:01 PM	If there's a large creature on the forest map, can he use the path to move at full speed? Since part of him will always be in the undergrowth due to the small size of the path, no. Zevox
Krytos 12-08-06, 10:07 PM	That's what I thought. Too bad that only means it will drag this fight out more. I'm quickly learning why no one likes the forest map. :(
Zevox 12-08-06, 10:11 PM	That's what I thought. Too bad that only means it will drag this fight out more. I'm quickly learning why no one likes the forest map. :( Now, I wouldn't say no one likes it - I do :) . Well, I don't usually like running fights on it (mostly because of how many folks have such trouble crossing them damn rivers and forget to put something in thier tactics about a prefered method to do so), but the theory behind it and the options for its use when you're the player on it I like quite a lot. Zevox
Krytos 12-08-06, 10:12 PM	Forest Noise: The background noise of the forest makes listen checks more difficult. The distance penalty is 2 per square, not 1. This confuses me. Normally the penalty is +1 per 10ft(2 squares) making the normal 1/2 per square. Does the forest really up it to +2 per 5ft?
MindWandererB 12-08-06, 10:38 PM	This confuses me. Normally the penalty is +1 per 10ft(2 squares) making the normal 1/2 per square. Does the forest really up it to +2 per 5ft? No, that's a typo. 2 per 10 feet, or 1 per square.
Krytos 12-08-06, 10:48 PM	Good to know. You should really get that typo fixed. ;)
MindWandererB 12-08-06, 10:58 PM	Right... I can do that, now. Done! :)
Krytos 12-08-06, 10:58 PM	Few more questions about the forest map. The DC 15 check to cross the stones, is that a one time check, or a DC15 check per stone? Also, can Large creatures even use/need to use the stones to cross?
MindWandererB 12-08-06, 11:00 PM	Few more questions about the forest map. The DC 15 check to cross the stones, is that a one time check, or a DC15 check per stone? Also, can Large creatures even use/need to use the stones to cross? Bizarrely, the rules say nothing about having to fit in the space to balance there. A Colossal creature can balance on a 2-inch-wide beam with a DC 20 check, as near as I can tell. How far you get is based on this: Check: You can walk on a precarious surface. A successful check lets you move at half your speed along the surface for 1 round. A failure by 4 or less means you can’t move for 1 round. A failure by 5 or more means you fall. The difficulty varies with the surface, as follows:
Krytos 12-09-06, 01:34 AM	You can move up to one-half your normal speed at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than one-half but less than your full speed, you take a –5 penalty. It’s practically impossible (–20 penalty) to move silently while running or charging. So, whats the penalty for full speed? -0 for 0-half speed, -5 for half to not full, and -20 for running and charging. I see a large hole there between not full speed and running. Or is anything full speed & + at a -20?
MindWandererB 12-09-06, 02:02 AM	So, whats the penalty for full speed? -0 for 0-half speed, -5 for half to not full, and -20 for running and charging. I see a large hole there between not full speed and running. Or is anything full speed & + at a -20? My inclination is that this is a typo, and that they meant "When moving at a speed greater than one-half but no more than your full speed, you take a –5 penalty." After all, why would anyone move at 3/4 speed or thereabouts? And does that mean that if you take one 5' step less than a full move, you're quieter? Makes no sense. However, that's an interpretation and not RAW. RAW, you are correct, there's a hole right there.
Krytos 12-09-06, 02:12 AM	So, when moving full speed, the penalty is -5, and anything more than full is -20? Gotcha.
nightbanegod 12-09-06, 08:23 AM	i've been trying to do alot of browsing since my retun, to really get a feel of the atmosphere around here, and one thing that i have noticed. is that there is ALOT more activity at slightly higher, more mid lvl characters. ECL>=4. that is a pleasant relief from what i remember. with there being something like 90% of the people playing having characters in the ECL3 bracket. Well, one thing that i would like to get a conversation going on would be the guild system. it turns out that it is a game of some sort and that it is more than just a complex system for RPing. Anyone care to offer some advice on how best to work with the inter guild activity? or even some fun quest/campaign that best elaborates on stuff like that?
TheMagister 12-09-06, 09:52 AM	Well, that depends on if you're more interested in the strategy portion or the RP portion of the Guild Wars game. From a strategy perspective, the best way to get involved is to join a guild and take up administrative duties theirin (i.e. - volunteer for Asst. Guildmaster, Guildmaster, Spymaster, etc.). I (personally) would LOVE a strategic advisor who would keep me abreast of all the actions the other guilds are doing (like operations to start new para-military groups, new structures being constructed in districts, success/failure of quests, etc.). That would keep me from making oversights in the assigning of my Guild Action Points and Character Action Points. From a Roleplaying Perspective, it is great fun to be part of a group or to be that special character that quests to create the new para-military group, or to contact existing ones. There are existing cities that need to be contacted for the purposes of alliance and/or trade. There is room and there are methods for creating new and interesting cities/states that can influence the Guild Wars. There are/can be personal vendettas (see Archdevil Asran and the budding TLT power Kervan) to be roleplayed out and participated in. There are raids, covert actions, ambushes, interceptions and burglaries, all of which dynamically affect the game world and disposition of the respective guilds. Either way, it's a whole bucket of fun. TM
hogarth 12-09-06, 10:01 AM	Either way, it's a whole bucket of fun. TM You forgot the excitement of checking the rules every week to see what has been added or removed while you weren't looking. It's like every day is Christmas morning and there are new presents under the tree! :gift:
Guildmaster (WAR) 12-09-06, 10:25 AM	Aw, be nice. All that jazz is settling down into a nice little strategy game. =) TM
nightbanegod 12-09-06, 10:44 AM	ok that's settled. then i will have to start up Will ohmsford and get him to start doing covert stuff to other guilds for the TAO... sorry CEF but you guys are to evangelic for me, gonna have to turn you into a squirrel...WIZARDS ROCK!!!
nightbanegod 12-09-06, 12:27 PM	ok so i was looking at the dragon diciple prestige class, and most notably the hardline requirement would be to be able to cast arcane spells without preperation. and some knowledge of arcana, so, i am trying to figure out how a gnome cleric with the knowledge domain does NOT qualify for this class as he innately can cast arcane spells without preperation. any takers on this issue?
hogarth 12-09-06, 12:31 PM	ok so i was looking at the dragon diciple prestige class, and most notably the hardline requirement would be to be able to cast arcane spells without preperation. and some knowledge of arcana, so, i am trying to figure out how a gnome cleric with the knowledge domain does NOT qualify for this class as he innately can cast arcane spells without preperation. any takers on this issue? The short answer: spell-like abilities are not spells.
McJarvis 12-09-06, 12:32 PM	And gnomes make silly dragons. *hides as someone creates a gnome half-dragon*
nightbanegod 12-09-06, 12:35 PM	And gnomes make silly dragons. *hides as someone creates a gnome half-dragon* ohh how you tempt me... i might toy with the idea of a kobold half dragon... WHEEEE tiny things that slither.... ok, so i am drawing up this new wizard, and i notice that its not that hard for me to start with a 0 for a con score ... i know that sucks, BUT, my question was, if i have a negative penalty to con so much so that as a wizard i would be gaining only 0.5 HP per level, is there a minimum HP gain per level and if so how much HP would a 3rd lvl wizard have with a con score of 4?
McJarvis 12-09-06, 02:01 PM	ohh how you tempt me... i might toy with the idea of a kobold half dragon... WHEEEE tiny things that slither.... ok, so i am drawing up this new wizard, and i notice that its not that hard for me to start with a 0 for a con score ... i know that sucks, BUT, my question was, if i have a negative penalty to con so much so that as a wizard i would be gaining only 0.5 HP per level, is there a minimum HP gain per level and if so how much HP would a 3rd lvl wizard have with a con score of 4? CONSTITUTION (CON) Constitution represents your character’s health and stamina. A Constitution bonus increases a character’s hit points, so the ability is important for all classes. You apply your character’s Constitution modifier to: * Each roll of a Hit Die (though a penalty can never drop a result below 1—that is, a character always gains at least 1 hit point each time he or she advances in level). :)
Vathelokai 12-09-06, 02:36 PM	Note that the dragon desciple prestige class effectivly stops you from progressing in your casting class. You get more spells, but not higher level ones. It works out with things like a multiclass fighter/sorcerer or the unearthed battle sorcerer, but if you want a gnome/dragon/caster, you should really look at the half dragon template instead.
nightbanegod 12-09-06, 02:43 PM	Note that the dragon desciple prestige class effectivly stops you from progressing in your casting class. You get more spells, but not higher level ones. It works out with things like a multiclass fighter/sorcerer or the unearthed battle sorcerer, but if you want a gnome/dragon/caster, you should really look at the half dragon template instead. actually i was just thinking about ways to go straight fighter or barbarian and still some how pull off the arcane nonpreperation requirement. so i was gonna go 1 lvl of cleric with knowledge and magic domains for cheap consumables of scrolls both arcane and divine yet still go heavy fighter with a dragon disciple.. all this without requiring credits specifically.. since cool things like templates require credits usually. Otherwise i would be playing the vampire monk.... GO FLURRY of neg lvls...!!!!
Vathelokai 12-09-06, 02:47 PM	Yeah, unfortunately you have to dip in bard or sorcerer for that. Don't know of any core way around it (except for monsters with ECL that have effective caster status {rakshasa!}).
nightbanegod 12-09-06, 03:04 PM	ugh.... rakasha half-dragon... almost as bad as the half-dragon treant i saw not too long ago... hilarious stuff by the way... i love kitty
TheMagister 12-09-06, 03:16 PM	Otherwise i would be playing the vampire monk.... GO FLURRY of neg lvls...!!!! Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on your play style and attitude) a vampire monk has to choose between his slam (which deals negative levels) or his unarmed strike (which he can flurry with). This effectively limits him to one level drain attack a round since slams ignore the "multiple attacks a round for high BAB" thing. TM
MindWandererB 12-09-06, 03:19 PM	actually i was just thinking about ways to go straight fighter or barbarian and still some how pull off the arcane nonpreperation requirement. I should point out that my new character, Gakhnalak, is going to be doing almost exactly this. Plan is: Barbarian 1, Battle Sorcerer 1, Orc Paragon 3, Dragon Disciple 10. I should also point out that a single caster level is often a good idea; one level of sorcerer nets you such goodies as True Strike (just plain neat with Power Attack), Magic Missile (never underestimate the auto-damage), Shield, and Enlarge/Reduce Person. Bard nets you CLW (and casting in armor), and either one gets you Invisibility, See Invisibility, Mirror Image, Alter Self, and Expeditious Retreat. Cool stuff. You forgot the excitement of checking the rules every week to see what has been added or removed while you weren't looking. It's like every day is Christmas morning and there are new presents under the tree! Tell me about it... and I'm supposedly in charge of the thing. "Whoops, when did that change?" There are/can be personal vendettas (see Archdevil Asran and the budding TLT power Kervan) to be roleplayed out and participated in.Actually, that's a holdover from the feud between Asran and Aerryl. Although my personal favorite is the one between Dronnar and Sunstroke, although that one's about to meet its dramatic finale (for now, at least). Why is it always my characters who end up in the vendettas?
McJarvis 12-09-06, 03:20 PM	Why is it always my characters who end up in the vendettas? I can't wait for the Maya/Mithos one ;)
NiQil 12-09-06, 03:26 PM	I also have a character in the works for Dragon Disciple...at present it is planned as a dwarven Barbarian 1/Bard 1/Dragon Disciple 10/Fighter 4/Monk 2/Ranger 2. I've posted different versions of this character over the last several months to playtest a few things...just about have him perfected. The only thing I am still toying with is dumping 3 of the 4 fighter levels and adding the half-dragon paragon class on the back end after DrD is completed.
NiQil 12-09-06, 03:27 PM	I should point out that my new character, Gakhnalak, is going to be doing almost exactly this. Plan is: Barbarian 1, Battle Sorcerer 1, Orc Paragon 3, Dragon Disciple 10. Tell me about it... and I'm supposedly in charge of the thing. "Whoops, when did that change?" Actually, that's a holdover from the feud between Asran and Aerryl. Although my personal favorite is the one between Dronnar and Sunstroke, although that one's about to meet its dramatic finale (for now, at least). Why is it always my characters who end up in the vendettas? Heh...you should go back through the history of the vendetta my Horsemen had against Sir Valkin....hence the reason for the final match between them before I retired them.
McJarvis 12-09-06, 03:38 PM	As a general note regarding Dragon Disciple-> I'm firmly convinced this class is most powerful when taken at epic levels. You don't get the caster level increase, but you DO get the equivilent of 18 epic feats over the first 9 levels of it, plus wings/blindsense 30ft & the unimportant(but cool) breath weapon. Epic feats(Equivilent): 4x Great Strength, 2x Great Constitution, 2x Great Intelligence, 3x Armor Skin, & 7(!!)x Improved Spell Capacity(Kind of...but I'm not using metamagic, so it's essentially the same...) And then you get dragon apothesis. Granted they are not the best epic feats in the world, but the power is in the sheer #. You only give up 10 casterlevels for those kinds of checks & 3 epic feats in exchange for these. Granted, losing caster levels sucks..(especially with the SR's floating around), but in T.I.M.'s case he doesn't care since he mostly buffs himself B-) My projected path is Battle Sorcerer 20/Dragon Disciple 10. Yay for 7 bonus level 9 spell slots :D [though I think I may be the only person in CoCo "planning" for epic levels....]
MindWandererB 12-09-06, 03:42 PM	Heh...you should go back through the history of the vendetta my Horsemen had against Sir Valkin....hence the reason for the final match between them before I retired them.Hmm... I can't find any mention of Valkin ever having fought the Horsemen before (although he fought some wretched imposter called Pestilence as hs first fight). Where is all of this? And then you get dragon apothesis.I'm actually dreading hitting Dragon Apotheosis at level 15. No more Enlarge/Reduce Person. I'm trying to think of an alternative other than the pricey tattoos of Expansion, but I guess at ECL 15 I'll be able to afford it.
McJarvis 12-09-06, 03:46 PM	I'm actually dreading hitting Dragon Apotheosis at level 15. No more Enlarge/Reduce Person. I'm trying to think of an alternative other than the pricey tattoos of Expansion, but I guess at ECL 15 I'll be able to afford it. By the time TIM gets that he'll likely be using shapechange anyway....I hadn't thought about Apothesis not being that great for enlarge person/reduce person :-O
NiQil 12-09-06, 04:02 PM	Hmm... I can't find any mention of Valkin ever having fought the Horsemen before (although he fought some wretched imposter called Pestilence as hs first fight). Where is all of this? I'm actually dreading hitting Dragon Apotheosis at level 15. No more Enlarge/Reduce Person. I'm trying to think of an alternative other than the pricey tattoos of Expansion, but I guess at ECL 15 I'll be able to afford it. The Horsemen have also gone through several incarnations, and some identity changes as well..pretty much anytime Valkin has fought a character of mine, it has been a Horseman incarnation of some sort. A solution to the Apothesis issue from the last DrD level is to pay for a permanent Enlarge Person prior to getting there....not a great solution, but a solution nonetheless. My plan will actually be getting that at Level 16 rather than 15 so that I can get all of the other toys from my class dips in before I head into the PrC and then have fighter levels to add feats on after the fact.
nightbanegod 12-09-06, 04:56 PM	A solution to the Apothesis issue from the last DrD level is to pay for a permanent Enlarge Person prior to getting there....not a great solution, but a solution nonetheless. can someone say DISPELL? permanent is only temporary my friend... then your SOL... (Shorter, Older, L... couldnt think of anything for L)
Vathelokai 12-09-06, 05:02 PM	My projected path is Battle Sorcerer 20/Dragon Disciple 10. Yay for 7 bonus level 9 spell slots :D [though I think I may be the only person in CoCo "planning" for epic levels....]You are not the only one my friend. Saffron and Auburn are both planned out (though auburn might need a rebuild.)
MindWandererB 12-09-06, 05:10 PM	You are not the only one my friend. Saffron and Auburn are both planned out (though auburn might need a rebuild.) I started off doing that, but eventually got out of the habit. I have only vague ideas about what to do past level 15 in most cases now. I used to plan up to level 20, and I long ago tossed out my TT strategy of always trying to have a full 20 class levels, or 10 PrC class levels, by the time I hit 20.
Milov 12-09-06, 07:14 PM	Once more, sorry for the interruption, but my ignorance has the better of me again. Zevox mentioned something to me a day or so ago about being able to have a random Questlord assigned for Miniquests, yet I saw nothing of this in the rules, so I'm not really sure if he's serious. Is this concept actually true? In which case I'm now curious why it's not in the rules... Or is it false, like I suspect?
MindWandererB 12-09-06, 07:17 PM	Once more, sorry for the interruption, but my ignorance has the better of me again. Zevox mentioned something to me a day or so ago about being able to have a random Questlord assigned for Miniquests, yet I saw nothing of this in the rules, so I'm not really sure if he's serious. Is this concept actually true? In which case I'm now curious why it's not in the rules... Or is it false, like I suspect? No, he's correct. Some of our conventions never make it into the rules. If you look at the list of active pitlords, you'll see that some of them have specifically volunteered to pick up unassigned miniquests.
Milov 12-09-06, 07:30 PM	Cool. Thanks for confirming that. :D
Zevox 12-10-06, 12:26 AM	Actually, that's a holdover from the feud between Asran and Aerryl. Although my personal favorite is the one between Dronnar and Sunstroke, although that one's about to meet its dramatic finale (for now, at least). Why is it always my characters who end up in the vendettas? In Aerryl's case, she just happened to be lucky enough to be the first mortal to beat Asran in the arena. His ego doesn't take that lightly (its one thing when The Harvester stomps him, being as hes a God and all, but quite another when some Elf does). If its any consolation, hes effectively retired that one to the rank of "nuisance" since beating her in the rematch, though he'd still like a replacement trophy if it turns out to be convenient some time ;) . Zevox
Gonbow 12-10-06, 12:29 AM	In Aerryl's case, she just happened to be lucky enough to be the first mortal to beat Asran in the arena. His ego doesn't take that lightly (its one thing when The Harvester stomps him, being as hes a God and all, but quite another when some Elf does). If its any consolation, hes effectively retired that one to the rank of "nuisance" since beating her in the rematch, though he'd still like a replacement trophy if it turns out to be convenient some time ;) . Zevox Heh! That's a feeling I can understand, in that Tatyana has a similar situation with Perius... he won with a crit at low levels and she hasn't had a chance to do a one one one with him since. (A FFA where she got ambushed by a melee'r before she could find perius, then a team battle... and now finally an interleague battle, but at least she was victorious that time) About the only thing worse than being defeated by a wilder to Tatyana was that time with the incredibly lucky orc... but he's gone now alas, no point having a vendetta there :P
Ravashack 12-10-06, 12:47 AM	Heh! That's a feeling I can understand, in that Tatyana has a similar situation with Perius... he won with a crit at low levels and she hasn't had a chance to do a one one one with him since. (A FFA where she got ambushed by a melee'r before she could find perius, then a team battle... and now finally an interleague battle, but at least she was victorious that time) About the only thing worse than being defeated by a wilder to Tatyana was that time with the incredibly lucky orc... but he's gone now alas, no point having a vendetta there :P LOL. You're just lucky I forgot to check if he leveled up :) PR 25 would have been EXTREMELY hard for you to scratch.
Krytos 12-10-06, 04:00 PM	If a character has 20% concealment and the CoCo die roller rolls a 20 on a d100, does the attack hit or miss?
Milov 12-10-06, 04:07 PM	I'm looking for someone to run a miniquest for Ihdald Seaslash (See signature for link) to join WAR. PM me for details, please. :D
Krytos 12-10-06, 04:17 PM	On the concealment thing, I think the 20 misses. 20% means there's 20 numbers on the die where it is a miss. 1-20 miss, 21-100 hit. Anyway, another question to throw out there. Say a character provokes an AoO, the enemy uses the AoO to attempt a grapple, which provokes an AoO from the character whose turn it is. Now, on the enemy's turn (Still the same round) he provokes another AoO. Does the first character (who doesn't have Combat Reflexes) get another AoO? The core part of the question I guess is does your AoO count reset at the beginning or end of your turn?
nightbanegod 12-10-06, 04:40 PM	im going to have to say that your AoO count resets at the end of the ROUND, your turn excluded...just seems appropriate or rather ... begining of your turn. because then that is all the actions you took before you could recover to start all over. IE summon spells coming into effect prior to your turn officially starting
TheMagister 12-10-06, 05:11 PM	If a character has 20% concealment and the CoCo die roller rolls a 20 on a d100, does the attack hit or miss? Was the attack made with a +1 seeking arrow? :D It's a miss. 1-20 = miss; 21-100=hit. TM
TheMagister 12-10-06, 05:14 PM	Anyway, another question to throw out there. Say a character provokes an AoO, the enemy uses the AoO to attempt a grapple, which provokes an AoO from the character whose turn it is. Now, on the enemy's turn (Still the same round) he provokes another AoO. Does the first character (who doesn't have Combat Reflexes) get another AoO? The core part of the question I guess is does your AoO count reset at the beginning or end of your turn? A character without combat reflexes gets ONE AoO a round. The character's initiative counter must reset before AoOs are restored (i.e. - he goes on initiative count 12. Enemy #1 provokes on count 11, and Character takes AoO. Enemy #2 provokes on count 22 [next round]. Character cannot AoO. Initiative count 12, character gets his AoO attempt back.).
Krytos 12-10-06, 05:37 PM	Was the attack made with a +1 seeking arrow? :D It's a miss. 1-20 = miss; 21-100=hit. TM Hehe, nope. No seeking arrows here. Wrong fight.
Guildmaster (WAR) 12-10-06, 06:06 PM	I wrote this with the intention of it going into the "Opinions" section of the Gladius Weekly. However, since nobody's seen Abyssal Stalker, I'm gonna post this here before it goes stale. I hope noone minds; I worked too hard on it to let it go to waste. Marjory Inkwell - Gladius Weekly 5th December The Warfare Alliance's guildmaster spoke this week in the Market Square of Gawane District. His subject matter centered on the efforts of the self-proclaimed "peace-keepers guild" to prevent the Celestial Expeditionary Forces from subjugating the citizen of the district. Many people gathered to listen, packing the large area and rendering the boisterous square abnormally quiet in the midday sun. Hand-painted anti-CEF signs bobbed above the heads of the crowd, revealing the deep-seated hostility held by the population against the invasive northern guild and their recent military actions in this once-peaceful section of Gladius. Gwar spoke at length, detailing the Alliance's actions during the last two weeks and mentioning several guildmembers by name, lauding their heroic actions in the face of insuperable odds. This reporter was able to capture some of the guildmaster's speech via cantrip. "Free Citizens of Gawane, the heroism of these great men and women provide an example the likes of which we can all strive to emulate. For many years the citizens of Gladius have labored under the yoke of the Council's dictates. Before that, the evil Angosh held Her by the neck in his spike-mailed fist. Would you have that grip removed, only to replace it with the constrictive bonds that would be imposed in the so-called "better future" that the Celestial Exeditionary Forces would force on you?" Crowd (chorus): "NO!" "Would you have them tell you how to act? How to raise your children? What you can speak about in public?" Crowd (chorus): "NO!" "I thought not. These few; Monsieur Hood, Ceilia Durrol, and Valek Usher, have labored valiantly to help you maintain your freedom. Can you contribute as much as they? As individuals, perhaps not. Not everyone can wield sword and bow. But even the mother can raise her voice against tyranny. Even the old gaffer can provide wisdom for the young to whet their courage. This is your place, friends. If you won't fight for your freedom, then who will? Will you fight for your homes? Your businesses? Your families?" Crowd (shouting): "AYE!" "I and the Alliance apologize for the intrusions the CEF has forced us to make into your fair district; defensive reactions, all. I would remind you that the Alliance has made every effort to minimize damage to property and injury to citizenry on these occasions, and has met with success both times. Though it is regrettable that such conflicts should have to take place here near your homes, I would ask you all if I might offer this bit of wisdom as a means of explanation and reason for future actions, should they prove necessary. I read now from the Pelorian Book of Healing, a beginner's text. These words can be found in the introduction of the tome. I quote: 'A healer's vocation is one of goodwill and humane action. But even a healer's peaceful vocation is not one that can exist without the drawing of blood. A healer must sometimes do harm and cut her patient; for the healing cannot truly begin until the foreign object is removed from the body.' Citizens, so it is with your fair district today. The invasive presence of the Celestial Expeditionary Forces must be expelled before the healing can begin. The CEF came into your district without cause, murdering the freedom-seeking members of Mayor Hanfgar Hallutin with no regard for his motives or actions. They did not bother to ask you whether or not you agreed with the action. They did not deem it necessary to contact the group to discover their purposes or direction. Seeing the presence of a para-military group that existed outside the law as a threat to their "better future", the CEF came a-murdering, seeking to extinguish the flame of liberty before it could become a fire too large to contain. They care not for any law but their own. The Celestial Expeditionary Forces came to you with fire and sword. The Alliance comes with peace and security, though we must needs fight to establish it. For the sake of your freedom; choose the Alliance." The roar of the crowd at the conclusion of the address could be heard for blocks in all directions. Gwar's speech this week is the second on record. Citizenry spoken to in Gawane seem to be reacting positively to the overtures of the Warfare Alliance's guildmaster, a sharp and marked contrast to the reaction this reporter got when she mentioned the name of the Celestial Expeditionary Force. Marjory Inkwell, reporting from the Gawane District Market Square.
nightbanegod 12-10-06, 07:58 PM	that is a most stirring speech... after i draw up a fully fledged wizard... perhaps the TAO (speaking on my own behalf of course) would be willing to work with WAR in further endeavers... i could use some meat walls anyways:P
Vathelokai 12-10-06, 08:41 PM	that is a most stirring speech... after i draw up a fully fledged wizard... perhaps the TAO (speaking on my own behalf of course) would be willing to work with WAR in further endeavers... i could use some meat walls anyways:P Speaking of which... "Damn, Sis. I'm still hurting from that beat down the Denthites put on us. I got a new trick I want to try on them. You up for it? The wise looking gnome with her floating cup of coffee says to the fuzzy half orcess.
nightbanegod 12-11-06, 02:16 PM	ok im lost, looking for the ruling on adding spells to a spell book. what spells are available and how much does it cost, furthermore, is there a discount via the TAO guild? any pointers?
Zevox 12-11-06, 03:16 PM	(Moved from the prison to keep uneccessary posts there down.) The Masked Man has an error with his speed. It should be 25' (base of 20', reduced to 15' by medium armor, +10' fast movement). Zevox That's not my understanding of how it works -- I thought it goes (20' base + 10' bonus to base) * 2/3 due to armor = 20'. What I've always seen is that modifiers are applied after any reduction due to encumbrance/armor. Strictly speaking, I can't even find a point in the rules where it says that the recuction is 2/3, though that could be extrapolated from the numbers provided for normal and reduced speeds. Zevox
TelinArtho 12-11-06, 03:31 PM	Zevox - when I sent the PM to you I had intended on including a statement from the SRD, but I didn't have the time at the time. However, this is uniform throughout - apply bonus/boni to speed then apply reduction due to armor or encumbrance. Fast Movement (Ex): A barbarian’s land speed is faster than the norm for his race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the barbarian’s speed because of any load carried or armor worn. I can't seem to find a more general statement for all cases about speed - but the above for Barbarians is pretty specific regardless.
Zevox 12-11-06, 03:36 PM	Zevox - when I sent the PM to you I had intended on including a statement from the SRD, but I didn't have the time at the time. However, this is uniform throughout - apply bonus/boni to speed then apply reduction due to armor or encumbrance. I can't seem to find a more general statement for all cases about speed - but the above for Barbarians is pretty specific regardless. I see - okay then, I'll withdraw the violation on the Masked Man. Zevox
hogarth 12-11-06, 03:37 PM	(Moved from the prison to keep uneccessary posts there down.) What I've always seen is that modifiers are applied after any reduction due to encumbrance/armor. Strictly speaking, I can't even find a point in the rules where it says that the recuction is 2/3, though that could be extrapolated from the numbers provided for normal and reduced speeds. Zevox Let's take a look at the Fast Movement ability: A barbarian's land speed is faster than the norm for his race by +10 feet. So I think we can agree that an unencumbered dromite barbarian has a land speed of 30 feet (20+10). Now let's take a look at the Armor section of the SRD: The number on Table: Armor and Shields is the character's speed while wearing the armor. Humans, elves, half-elves, and half-orcs have an unencumbered speed of 30 feet. They use the first column. So, following that logic, if a dromite barbarian has an unencumbered speed of 30 feet, they should use the first column, too. The other place it discusses land speed is in the Movement part of the SRD. The relevant item is the "Carrying Loads" table. In the text (here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htm#weight ) it explains (sort of) that carrying a medium load and wearing medium armor are similar. Like armor, a character’s load affects his or her maximum Dexterity bonus to AC, carries a check penalty (which works like an armor check penalty), reduces the character’s speed, and affects how fast the character can run, as shown on Table: Carrying Loads. A medium or heavy load counts as medium or heavy armor for the purpose of abilities or skills that are restricted by armor. Carrying a light load does not encumber a character. If your character is wearing armor, use the worse figure (from armor or from load) for each category. Do not stack the penalties. So one would go to the table and look up the Speed 30' (20 base, +10 barbarian) column and the Medium load row. That says a character with base move 30' but with a Medium load has a move of 20'. From the entries in the table, you can extrapolate that the penalty for Medium or Heavy loads is 1/3 of the character's base move.
Hirumajoe 12-11-06, 04:58 PM	So here's a question. Are there any guilds who would want the help of Valen Sky (and who could make a thematic justification for a NG Human Ranger/Psion that hates Drow and Illithid?) He's ECL 5 if that matters. I've recently agreed to have Kai Engel join the CEF, so I figure I might as well go whole hog if I'm going to be a pawn in the machine that is the Guild System. :-)
Abyssal Stalker 12-11-06, 05:16 PM	Hello everybody! I'm back from our little vacation adn just thought to pop in and inform. It takes some time to get back into the (boring) weekly order, with a lot of work waiting tomorrow morning. I'll try to catch up with things here too. I already noticed that there was some minor issue with the Torel-Kervan-Reginald -fight. If someone could give me a brief explanation what should be fixed and how, that would be appreciated. I'll also try to update the Weekly, sorry about that I didn't have time to do it last week. (TM, your writing will be published, allthough a little late). And Zevox, your info for Asran's MQ has been received, I'll figure something out ASAP. Now I have to go to bed, I have an early morning.
SauroGrenom 12-11-06, 05:23 PM	So here's a question. Are there any guilds who would want the help of Valen Sky (and who could make a thematic justification for a NG Human Ranger/Psion that hates Drow and Illithid?) He's ECL 5 if that matters. I've recently agreed to have Kai Engel join the CEF, so I figure I might as well go whole hog if I'm going to be a pawn in the machine that is the Guild System. :-) At PSI we could accommodate you, but I really want to keep the guild as lawful. So I'm hesitant to take you on unless we can also get someway to keep the alignment of the guild lawful. Raskos has recently completed the 3rd of a series of quests revolving around working against a Drow enemy. So there is a common theme that can be a link to the guild.
Zevox 12-11-06, 06:32 PM	And Zevox, your info for Asran's MQ has been received, I'll figure something out ASAP. Um, Abyssal, thats not a miniquest. Its a full-fledged three-week mission (Guild quest). Didn't you notice that my original request for a QL specified as much? Hope thats not a problem... Zevox
hogarth 12-11-06, 06:36 PM	Hello everybody! I'm back from our little vacation adn just thought to pop in and inform. It takes some time to get back into the (boring) weekly order, with a lot of work waiting tomorrow morning. I'll try to catch up with things here too. I already noticed that there was some minor issue with the Torel-Kervan-Reginald -fight. If someone could give me a brief explanation what should be fixed and how, that would be appreciated.. There was some confusion over the rewards. Subsequently, it was clarified in the Oracle thread that since Reg was the last person to fall unconscious, that made him the "last man standing". Actual death doesn't matter in Hunter fights, nor does it matter if a gladiator still has allies to fight for him; once you're unconscious, you're "defeated". The discussion starts here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10827258&postcount=106
Zevox 12-11-06, 06:59 PM	So then, not to sound like a broken record (seems I make requests like this a lot, doesn't it?), but is anybody interested in taking a miniquest for Ceilia Durrol (my mounted Fighter/Cleric) on her assault of the CEF outpost in Gawane next week? Guild rules state it has to use a random monster, so that simplifies things I suppose. I'm just looking to see if I can get someone not associated with WAR or CEF (and if I can avoid getting Telin and his cursed dice :P ). Zevox
MitzaVolchenko 12-11-06, 07:17 PM	So then, not to sound like a broken record (seems I make requests like this a lot, doesn't it?), but is anybody interested in taking a miniquest for Ceilia Durrol (my mounted Fighter/Cleric) on her assault of the CEF outpost in Gawane next week? Guild rules state it has to use a random monster, so that simplifies things I suppose. I'm just looking to see if I can get someone not associated with WAR or CEF (and if I can avoid getting Telin and his cursed dice :P ). Zevox I can take it.
Vathelokai 12-11-06, 07:24 PM	ok im lost, looking for the ruling on adding spells to a spell book. what spells are available and how much does it cost, furthermore, is there a discount via the TAO guild? any pointers? Space in the Spellbook A spell takes up one page of the spellbook per spell level. Even a 0-level spell (cantrip) takes one page. A spellbook has one hundred pages. Materials and Costs Materials for writing the spell cost 100 gp per page. Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for the spells she gains for free at each new level. ... In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to the spell’s level × 50 gp. So the price to buy a new spell in your spellbook is 150 gp x spell level. However, 1st lv spells on a scroll cost 25 gp, so it's cheaper to get your first level spells from scroll instead of NPC wizards. There is no bonus for being a member of TAO. There was a deliberate decision to block guild membership from giving bonus's to characters (didn't want to unbalance the arena system). The quantifiable bonus of guild membership is questing without paying credits. I can give you all the pointers you want. Have any idea on your theme or spells you want?
Zevox 12-11-06, 07:49 PM	I can take it. Great - I'll look forward to it :) . Zevox
McJarvis 12-11-06, 07:56 PM	Does a summoned creature get to make a SR check every round against Protection from Evil to try & crack it, or do they have to ignore the protected creature once they have failed to resist the spell with SR?
Zevox 12-11-06, 07:58 PM	Does a summoned creature get to make a SR check every round against Protection from Evil to try & crack it, or do they have to ignore the protected creature once they have failed to resist the spell with SR? The latter, last I heard. They get one chance to ignore the effect with SR, and one only. Zevox
Vathelokai 12-11-06, 08:46 PM	Zevox is correct. They get one SR roll on the first attack.
Krytos 12-11-06, 09:20 PM	Would "Natural Soil" be considered "yielding surfaces (soft ground, mud)"?
MindWandererB 12-11-06, 09:28 PM	Would "Natural Soil" be considered "yielding surfaces (soft ground, mud)"? You mean for falling damage? I would say no. Underbrush, probably.
Krytos 12-11-06, 09:47 PM	Once fire is applied to Web, does it spread out, burning 5ft per round, or does it just take 1 round for fire to burn through 5ft and then no more unless the fire is reapplied?
nightbanegod 12-11-06, 09:51 PM	I can give you all the pointers you want. Have any idea on your theme or spells you want? sure... im specializing in divination for the bonus spells but for RP purposes im a transmuter with my new wizard. im still drawing him up via emailing myself notepad files ... anyone got any better idea for updating a character than copy/paste a charactersheet into notepad? but yeah... im looking on adding a few spells to my book to start with a few extra scrolls.. so i am banning myself from enchantment spells. i have a decent selection of 1st lvl spells as it stands... the list of spells is kinda long already that i have... as starting spells. but i managed to pull off starting with a 22 int and i have a headband of intelect to boot for even more rediculous saves at low levels... mostly i was just doing it for spell slots though. as i plan on going into arch mage when the time is right and that is going to burn me some spellslots when i pick up spell like abilities...nothing like silent/still/ Ddoor to make a hasty getaway...quickened if i feel like i can get the spellslots... Level 1: Expeditious Retreat, Reduce Person, Color Spray, Magic Missle, True Strike, Shocking Grasp, Shield, Mage Armor, Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement, cause fear Level 2: Fox's cunning(i plan on starting with a headband of intellect), Locate object, (Spell 3), etc
nightbanegod 12-11-06, 09:54 PM	Once fire is applied to Web, does it spread out, burning 5ft per round, or does it just take 1 round for fire to burn through 5ft and then no more unless the fire is reapplied? i was under the impression that it was a flash burn and the entire web gets set off instantly with fire applied... not just that one spot.
Vathelokai 12-11-06, 09:55 PM	Once fire is applied to Web, does it spread out, burning 5ft per round, or does it just take 1 round for fire to burn through 5ft and then no more unless the fire is reapplied? It dosn't spread. Any fire can set the webs alight and burn away 5 square feet in 1 round.The wording is strange. It says 'webs', though it only specifies 5 ft burning away and makes no mention of it spreading.
Krytos 12-11-06, 09:59 PM	It dosn't spread. The wording is strange. It says 'webs', though it only specifies 5 ft burning away and makes no mention of it spreading. That's how I was reading it too, but it didn't make much sense to me given the tactics. Thanks.
Zevox 12-11-06, 10:43 PM	Somebody jog my memory - were customized (purchased) allies made illegal at ECL 3 and/or 4 with the simplification of those leagues? Just checked the quick start guide, but didn't see any sign of info about it. Zevox
Erithmu 12-11-06, 11:05 PM	I thought they were as well. Then again the are up for discussion again in the Council. There they are ... Creating a Character -> C -> point V.
Macbrea 12-11-06, 11:07 PM	I would have to disagree on only 5ft burns. The entire web is one continous piece of web and needs to put itself out as per the catching fire rules if it doesn't wish to burn away.
Milov 12-11-06, 11:09 PM	While I consider myself crazy for doing this, I had to. I've got -another- character, and before anyone asks (I'd be surprised if anyone was going to in the first place though), no, I don't intend to running more than two at a time. Lot o' sitting about now. Some weird urge made me create this one. Anyway... Heres the link: Nanasi Seaslash If anyone has the time and/or interest, please look her over, see if there's any mistakes in the sheet. After making so many I'm getting a bit better at doing it without big ones, but there's still a couple I bet. Oh, and she won't be active for at least another week, so no rush. And yes. She is related to my other sea elf. Have a look at her background if you'd like to know how. I'll expand it later.
Zevox 12-11-06, 11:36 PM	While I consider myself crazy for doing this, I had to. I've got -another- character, and before anyone asks (I'd be surprised if anyone was going to in the first place though), no, I don't intend to running more than two at a time. Lot o' sitting about now. Some weird urge made me create this one. Anyway... Heres the link: Nanasi Seaslash If anyone has the time and/or interest, please look her over, see if there's any mistakes in the sheet. After making so many I'm getting a bit better at doing it without big ones, but there's still a couple I bet. Oh, and she won't be active for at least another week, so no rush. And yes. She is related to my other sea elf. Have a look at her background if you'd like to know how. I'll expand it later. Interesting character. Anyway, errors at first glance: Tattoos with powers that have a range of personal (most powers you'd want in one do) cost double, so those Tattoos of Chameleon should be 100 gp each. Obviously, that'll mess with her expendable cap. You forgot her +8 racial bonus to swim checks. Evasion is not a feat. Not an error per say, but I'm curious as to why she has a shortbow instead of a longbow (Rogues aren't proficient with them, but Elves are) and why the bow isn't masterwork. You have the money to make it such, and theres only benefits to doing so and drawbacks to not doing so. Zevox
Krytos 12-12-06, 12:26 AM	Lightning Bolt Evocation [Electricity] Level: Sor/Wiz 3 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 120 ft. Area: 120-ft. line Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes You release a powerful stroke of electrical energy that deals 1d6 points of electricity damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to each creature within its area. The bolt begins at your fingertips. The lightning bolt sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in its path. It can melt metals with a low melting point, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, or bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the bolt may continue beyond the barrier if the spell’s range permits; otherwise, it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does. Material Component: A bit of fur and an amber, crystal, or glass rod. Does this spell require LOS to work, I say yes it does.
Zevox 12-12-06, 12:40 AM	Does this spell require LOS to work, I say yes it does. Since its an area effect (line), it does not. It only requires line of effect and knowledge of where to aim. Zevox
Krytos 12-12-06, 12:43 AM	Since its an area effect (line), it does not. It only requires line of effect and knowledge of where to aim. Zevox I keep forgetting LOE and LOS are different. Thanks though.
Vathelokai 12-12-06, 01:17 AM	sure... im specializing in divination for the bonus spells but for RP purposes im a transmuter with my new wizard. im still drawing him up via emailing myself notepad files ... anyone got any better idea for updating a character than copy/paste a charactersheet into notepad? but yeah... im looking on adding a few spells to my book to start with a few extra scrolls.. so i am banning myself from enchantment spells. i have a decent selection of 1st lvl spells as it stands... the list of spells is kinda long already that i have... as starting spells. but i managed to pull off starting with a 22 int and i have a headband of intelect to boot for even more rediculous saves at low levels... mostly i was just doing it for spell slots though. as i plan on going into arch mage when the time is right and that is going to burn me some spellslots when i pick up spell like abilities...nothing like silent/still/ Ddoor to make a hasty getaway...quickened if i feel like i can get the spellslots... Level 1: Expeditious Retreat, Reduce Person, Color Spray, Magic Missle, True Strike, Shocking Grasp, Shield, Mage Armor, Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement, cause fear Level 2: Fox's cunning(i plan on starting with a headband of intellect), Locate object, (Spell 3), etcD-door only has a verbal component. ;) Second level spells: I'd grab see invis as your 2nd lv divination over locate object; the description of locate object makes it tough to use in a non RP setting, and just the threat of the see invis scroll being used usually stops a fighter types from wasing their 300 gp potion of invis. What I'm seeing is a lot of helpfull stuff and not much fight ending stuff. Color spray is great against opponents with a level adjustment, but not in most fights. Cause fear is handy for buying time, but then you have to take them out while they run. Since you're going for the high int save or die type specialist, I'd suggest grabbing some fight ending spells: The ray of enfeeble/chill touch/touch of fatigue combo kills by strength drain, the web/summon swarm combo destroys the less physical types, ghoul touch with invisible familiar can be cruel. Mirror image is a necessity. A backup scroll of prot. arrows isn't a bad idea. A scroll of rope trick for that 'need to buff for 8 rounds' fight. Alterself (lizardman now, Troglodyte at next level) is a nice AC boost that stacks with mage armor and shield. Blindness is just handy. Not much in the save or die department for lv 3 spells; lots of damage and damn useful stuff though. Unless you want to be the master damage dealer wizard, then focus on making one of those 2nd level killer spells work better at this point. Note on items: since you're getting craft wonderous, remember that there is no xp cost for crafting anymore. And since you can sell an item you crafted for the same price that you made it, there is no reason to have money left over. Spend all of your left-overs on pearl of power 1s; sell them back when you need the money to craft something else.
Abyssal Stalker 12-12-06, 02:04 AM	Um, Abyssal, thats not a miniquest. Its a full-fledged three-week mission (Guild quest). Didn't you notice that my original request for a QL specified as much? Hope thats not a problem... Zevox No problem, that was a typo.
orsono 12-12-06, 10:36 AM	New Animal Companion Questions Greeting! My druid made it to lvl 4 and I want to change my Animal Companion. so this are the questions that I have. 1. Do I have to go on a quest to get, an Ape for example? 2. is the quest 1 week long? 3. can I edit my new animal companions feats? without the use of Points? cheers, Orsono
Zevox 12-12-06, 11:05 AM	1. Do I have to go on a quest to get, an Ape for example? 2. is the quest 1 week long? 3. can I edit my new animal companions feats? without the use of Points? 1. No, you need not. You can choose to do so if you wish to roleplay the acquisition, but you could also just make the change anytime between 3-Fight-Cycles. 2. If you wanted to RP it you could do either, obviously. If it were a requirement though it would only be a miniquest - only Leadership actually requires a full quest to obtain an ally. 3. You mean change the feats thier monster entry in the MM/SRD gives them? No, not even with credits. You do get to assign what feats they take as they advance in HD (they get bonus HD as you go up in Druid levels), but it is impossible to change them from the base animal in the MM/SRD other than the add-ons the class feature permits. Zevox
hogarth 12-12-06, 11:19 AM	1. No, you need not. You can choose to do so if you wish to roleplay the acquisition, but you could also just make the change anytime between 3-Fight-Cycles. Note that a new animal companion does not come trained -- you need to train it yourself with Free or Full Activities or you need to pay for it to be trained by an NPC. 2. If you wanted to RP it you could do either, obviously. If it were a requirement though it would only be a miniquest - only Leadership actually requires a full quest to obtain an ally. Is a full quest needed for a Leadership cohort? It's not clear to me from reading the rules. This suggests a full quest is needed... Leadership Allies (Cohorts): The Leadership feat is one of the most common ways to get a cohort. You need to go on a quest to find your Leadership cohort. This suggests a miniquest is O.K.... Why MiniQuests? Two reasons. Not everyone wants to pitlord fights or audit characters to gain credits but that would also mean he could never obtain an animal companion, or take the leadership feat.
Zevox 12-12-06, 11:59 AM	Is a full quest needed for a Leadership cohort? It's not clear to me from reading the rules. This suggests a full quest is needed... This suggests a miniquest is O.K.... Huh - I could've sworn I saw someplace that it was explicitly said that only a full quest would do. Maybe I'm thinking of the full quest requirement to gain templates... Zevox
TelinArtho 12-12-06, 12:40 PM	Okay, here's a fun question: Attack: A half-dragon has two claw attacks and a bite attack, and the claws are the primary natural weapon. If the base creature can use weapons, the half-dragon retains this ability. A half-dragon fighting without weapons uses a claw when making an attack action. When it has a weapon, it usually uses the weapon instead. Full Attack: A half-dragon fighting without weapons uses both claws and its bite when making a full attack. If armed with a weapon, it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack and its bite as a natural secondary attack. If it has a hand free, it uses a claw as an additional natural secondary attack. Damage: Half-dragons have bite and claw attacks. If the base creature does not have these attack forms, use the damage values in the table below. Otherwise, use the values below or the base creature’s damage values, whichever are greater. Size Bite Damage Claw Damage Fine 1 — Diminutive 1d2 1 Tiny 1d3 1d2 Small 1d4 1d3 Medium 1d6 1d4 Large 1d8 1d6 Huge 2d6 1d8 Gargantuan 3d6 2d6 Colossal 4d6 3d6 The Sahaugin mutant has 4 talon attacks and a bite. I'm assuming that Claw is essentially Talon (so the Sahaugin wouldn't have 6 arms...), however, would that mean two of his attacks increases from 1d4 damage up to 1d6, all 4 talons become claw attacks at 1d6 or that he'd have two attack options for two of his arms (either to attack with 2 Talons/2 Claws or 4 Talons) EDIT: Also - I presume this wouldn't affect any of the Sahaugin's rake attacks. Its not looking like a build I would actually use... 2HD at ECL8 is a little rough...
Hrothmund 12-12-06, 01:58 PM	Can magic weapons be purchased incremementally? Can you upgrade a masterwork longsword to +1 longsword for 2,000gp or do you have to sell the mw longsword and then buy a +1 longsword? Thanks
Abyssal Stalker 12-12-06, 02:01 PM	You can upgrade them.
MindWandererB 12-12-06, 02:30 PM	Okay, here's a fun question: The Sahaugin mutant has 4 talon attacks and a bite. I'm assuming that Claw is essentially Talon (so the Sahaugin wouldn't have 6 arms...), however, would that mean two of his attacks increases from 1d4 damage up to 1d6, all 4 talons become claw attacks at 1d6 or that he'd have two attack options for two of his arms (either to attack with 2 Talons/2 Claws or 4 Talons) EDIT: Also - I presume this wouldn't affect any of the Sahaugin's rake attacks. Its not looking like a build I would actually use... 2HD at ECL8 is a little rough... That is an interesting question. The way it's phrased ("Half-dragons have bite and claw attacks. If the base creature does not have these attack forms, use the damage values in the table below. Otherwise, use the values below or the base creature’s damage values, whichever are greater."), I would infer that all four 1d4 talon attacks become 1d6 claw attacks. Also, as far as I know, rake attacks always do the same base damage as the creature's claws. You're right, though, that this would be a pretty fragile build.
Erithmu 12-12-06, 02:41 PM	When crafting Pearls of Power, does the crafter have to be able to cast the appropriate spell level in order to craft them? Ex: 4th level druid casting (2nd level spells) craft a PoP [3]?
TelinArtho 12-12-06, 02:43 PM	That one's simple: creator must be able to cast spells of the spell level to be recalled
SauroGrenom 12-12-06, 02:53 PM	That is an interesting question. The way it's phrased ("Half-dragons have bite and claw attacks. If the base creature does not have these attack forms, use the damage values in the table below. Otherwise, use the values below or the base creature’s damage values, whichever are greater."), I would infer that all four 1d4 talon attacks become 1d6 claw attacks. Also, as far as I know, rake attacks always do the same base damage as the creature's claws. You're right, though, that this would be a pretty fragile build.I've thought of similar things. For example with a half dragon treant. What happens with the treant's slam attack? Does the claw attack replace the slam? How much damage does the claw attack cause? If you replace the claw attack what happens to the trample attack damage? If you get both attacks with different damage on each can the claws and a slam be used in the same full attack? WOTC has recently done a work up on a half dragon treant. It was one of those Elite Opponents web articles if I recall. Perhaps that article will give some perspective on how this template applies to a mutant saghuin.
Macbrea 12-12-06, 03:06 PM	Half-Green Dragon/Half-Treant CR 10 Melee slam +16 (2d6+13) or Melee 2 slams +16 (2d6+13) or Melee claw +16 (1d8+13) or Melee 2 claws +16 (1d8+13) and Melee bite +11 (2d6+6) Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft. Though claw or talon is marked as the same weapon. Half-dragon/Sahuagin(Mutant) should probably be: 2 talons +4 melee (1d4+2) and 2 talons +4 melee (1d6+2) and bite +2 melee (1d4+1)
TelinArtho 12-12-06, 03:12 PM	I don't know if it would really be all that fragile of the build. With the correct magic items, I think it could work pretty well: Male sahaugin mutant half-blue dragon, Dragon Medium size, Height 6ft, Weight 178lbs Neutral Evil Sahaugin 2, +6 LA, ECL 8 XP: 29000 / XP 36000 STR 28 [+9] (10 pts) [16, +4 racial, +8 template] [+2 Blood Frenzy] DEX 18 [+4] (10 pts) [16, +2 racial] CON 20 [+5] (10 pts) [16, +2 racial, +2 template] [+2 Blood Frenzy] INT 14 [+2] (0 pts) [8, +4 racial, +2 template] WIS 16 [+3] (6 pts) [14, +2 racial] CHA 8 [-1] (0 pts) [8, -2 racial, +2 template] Hit Points: 25.5 [2d10 HD +10 Con] [+2 Blood Frenzy] AC 23 [+4 dex, +9 nat], Touch 14, Flat 19 [-2 Blood Frenzy] Initiative: +4 [+4 dex] BAB/Grap: +2/+11 [+2bab, +9str] Speed 30ft, swim 60ft Saves: Fort +6 [+5 con] [+1 Blood Frenzy] Refl +8 [+3 racial, +4 dex] Will +6 [+3 racial, +3 wis] Standard Attacks Talon +11 melee, 1d6+9 dmg, 20/x2 crit (+2 BAB, +9 Str) Full Attacks: 4 Talons +11 melee, 1d6+9 dmg (+2 BAB, +9 Str) and Bite +9 melee, 1d4+4 dmg (+2 BAB, +9 Str, -2 secondary attack) Feats: MultiattackB [Sahaugin bonus] Multiweapon Fighting [1st] [b]Racial Abilities: Sahaugin Mutant +4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, +4 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma A sahaugin’s base land speed is 30 feet. They also can swim at a speed of 60 feet. Blindsense out to 30 feet when underwater Darkvision out to 60 feet. Racial Hit Dice: A sahaugin begins with two levels of monstrous humanoid, which provide 2d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +2, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +0, Ref +3, and Will +3. Racial Skills: A sahaugin's humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 5 x (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1). Its class skills are Handle Animal, Hide, Listen, Profession (hunter), Ride, Spot, Survival. Skill bonus: +8 racial bonus to swim, can always take 10 when swimming Skill bonus: +4 racial bonus to hide, listen and spot when underwater Skill bonus: +4 racial bonus on Survival and Profession (hunter) when within 50 miles of home. Skill bonus: +4 racial bonus on Handle Animal checks when working with sharks Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A sahaugin is automatically proficient with all simple weapons, and tridents +5 natural armor bonus. Blood Frenzy: 1/day after taking damage in combat can fly into a frenzy in the following round, +2 Str/Con, -2 AC until opponent or Aquin is dead. Cannot end frenzy. Rake (Ex): Attack bonus +9 melee (+2BAB, +9Str, -2 secondary attack), damage 1d6+4. Aquin also gains two rake attacks when he attacks while swimming. Freshwater Sensitivity (Ex): When fully immersed in fresh water, DC 15 Fortitude save or become fatigued. Repeat save attempt every 10 minutes while immersed. Light Blindness (Ex): Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds Aquin for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, he is dazzled. Speak with Sharks (Ex): Aquin can communicate telepathically with sharks up to 150 feet away. The communication is limited to fairly simple concepts such as "food," "danger," and "enemy." Aquin can use the Handle Animal skill to befriend and train sharks. Water Dependent (Ex): Aquin can survive out of the water for 10 hours (1 hour per 2 points of Constitution) (after that, refer to the drowning rules on page 304 of the Dungeon Master ’s Guide). Four arms - can make four talon attacks or use extra weapons, in addition to the talon and bite attacks. Template Abilities: Half-Blue Dragon +8 Strength, +2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma Racial Hit Dice increase by one size type Racial Skills are based on the dragon type - (6 + Int modifier)*(Racial HD + 3) +4 natural armor bonus Special Attack: Breath Weapon (60ft line of Lightning, 6d8 damage, DC 16 (10+ 1/2 racial HD + Con modifier)) Darkvision 60ft Low-light vision Immune to Sleep, paralysis effects Immune to Electricity Class Abilities: Fighter Bonus feat at 1st and even levels All Simple and Martial Weapon proficiencies, All Armor and All shields (including tower) Skills (Sahaugin 40) [ACP 0] +4 Balance [+4 dex] +9 Climb [+9 str] +6 Handle Animal [5 sahaugin, -1 cha, +2 tool] [5 ranks] +4 racial when working with sharks +9 Hide [5 sahaugin, +4 dex] +4 racial when underwater +9 Jump [+9 str] +8 Listen [5 sahaugin, +3 wis] [5 ranks] +4 racial when underwater +4 Move Silently [+4 dex] +10 (+14) Profession (hunter) [5 sahaugin, +3 wis, +2 tool] [5 ranks] +4 racial when w/in 50 miles of home +11 Ride [5 sahaugin, +4 dex, +2 syn (HA)] [5 ranks] +8 Spot [5 sahaugin, +3 wis] [5 ranks] +4 racial when underwater +8 (+12) Survival [5 sahaugin, +3 wis] [5 ranks] +4 racial when w/in 50 miles of home +17 Swim [+8 racial, +9 str] [Can take 10 on swim checks] Speaks Sahaugin, Common, Aquan Speak Language [1 +2 int] [3 total languages]
MindWandererB 12-12-06, 03:35 PM	I've thought of similar things. For example with a half dragon treant. What happens with the treant's slam attack? Does the claw attack replace the slam? How much damage does the claw attack cause? If you replace the claw attack what happens to the trample attack damage? If you get both attacks with different damage on each can the claws and a slam be used in the same full attack? WOTC has recently done a work up on a half dragon treant. It was one of those Elite Opponents web articles if I recall. Perhaps that article will give some perspective on how this template applies to a mutant saghuin. Their article's half dragon treant isn't done quite correctly. Melee slam +16 (2d6+13) or Melee 2 slams +16 (2d6+13) or Melee claw +16 (1d8+13) or Melee 2 claws +16 (1d8+13) and Melee bite +11 (2d6+6)There should be a slam/slam/bite option in there, too. So I'm not sure whether there should be a slam/slam/claw/claw/bite routine, since it doesn't look like they thought about permutations.
Macbrea 12-12-06, 03:39 PM	So, silly question. Is it possible to play a Quasit? It is listed as a 3HD demon with LA - (improved familiar). I want to play a Quasit sorceror with improved familiar!
TelinArtho 12-12-06, 04:09 PM	LA of - does not mean LA +0. However, the simple answer is no - the quasit is not in the list of available races in the Rules thread. A dretch is okay though...
SauroGrenom 12-12-06, 04:23 PM	There is a note on the list of playable races, that if you ask nicely Pitlords may allow you to play another race. I'd say a Quasit is LA +3 (much like a PseudoDragon or a Mephet).
Hirumajoe 12-12-06, 04:32 PM	Okay, Valen Sky leveled to ECL 6. And now I'm forced to make all sorts of difficult decisions. I know I'm adding a level Psion (Egoist). I'm trying to decide between Spring Attack and Shot on the Run for Valen. I'm currently leaning towards Spring Attack since that negates AoO's for movement, rather Shot on the Run which only allows a slightly more useful form of Move and Shoot. Or perhaps people have a must have feat for a melee/ranged/caster/stealth character... The contenders are: Chameleon: +10 to hide for 10 min/level. 'Nuff said. EmpathicTransfer: Not sure about this one. Depends on how flexible it is. (I.e can I have my psi-crystal manifest this as a touch ability and transfer the damage to it? Along with ability damage? Or would it transfer to me? And what happens if I try to share the power?) Share Pain: Use my Psi-crystal as a hit point sponge. 50% more hp. Whats not to like? Concussive Blast: My first attack power. Inefficient at 3pp for 1d6 and then 1d6 for every 2 augmented. *However* its force damage with no save, no attack roll, and medium range. AKA the Ghost killer. And also a decent finishing move. Any and all advice welcome. Thanks.
Milov 12-12-06, 04:44 PM	Interesting character. Anyway, errors at first glance: Tattoos with powers that have a range of personal (most powers you'd want in one do) cost double, so those Tattoos of Chameleon should be 100 gp each. Obviously, that'll mess with her expendable cap. You forgot her +8 racial bonus to swim checks. Evasion is not a feat. Not an error per say, but I'm curious as to why she has a shortbow instead of a longbow (Rogues aren't proficient with them, but Elves are) and why the bow isn't masterwork. You have the money to make it such, and theres only benefits to doing so and drawbacks to not doing so. Zevox Errors were fixed I believe, as for muh shortbow thing, well, I'll add the logic in there to the background. I did make it masterwork though. Just kinda forgot to earlier.
hogarth 12-12-06, 04:52 PM	Okay, Valen Sky leveled to ECL 6. And now I'm forced to make all sorts of difficult decisions. I know I'm adding a level Psion (Egoist). Any and all advice welcome. Thanks. I like Psionic Levitate as a level 2 power (although it does mean that you'll get tougher monster fights). I don't like the Dodge/Mobility feat chain much; I'd probably go for Psychic Shot instead if I were in your shoes. Or maybe Expanded Knowledge (Astral Construct), but that's a matter of taste.
Macbrea 12-12-06, 04:55 PM	There is a note on the list of playable races, that if you ask nicely Pitlords may allow you to play another race. I'd say a Quasit is LA +3 (much like a PseudoDragon or a Mephet). You think Quasit is worth more then Dretch (LA +2)?
TelinArtho 12-12-06, 05:03 PM	Hmm let's see: Quasit: 20ft, fly 50ft (perfect) Dretch: 20ft Quasit: +3 nat Dretch: +5 nat Quasit Specials: Posion (Fortitude DC 13, initial damage 1d4 Dex, secondary damage 2d4 Dex. The save DC is Constitution-based and includes a +2 racial bonus.), SLA (At will—detect good, detect magic, and invisibility (self only); 1/day—cause fear (as the spell, except that its area is a 30-foot radius from the quasit, save DC 11). Caster level 6th. The save DCs are Charisma-based. Once per week a quasit can use commune to ask six questions. The ability otherwise works as the spell (caster level 12th)); Alternate Form (up to medium size: bat, monstrous centipede, toad, and wolf), DR 5/cold iron or good, darkvision 60ft, fast healing 2, immunity to poison, Resistance Fire 10 Dretch Specials: SLA (1/day—scare (DC 12), stinking cloud (DC 13). Caster level 2nd), Summon Demon, DR 5/cold iron or good, darkvision 60ft, immune to elec and poison, Resistance to Acid 10, Cold 10, Fire 10; Telepathy 100ft In short - yes - the Quasit is worth more than the dretch. 50ft fly at perfect is a huge benefit... EDIT - oh and the stat differences mentioned below, as well as the benefit of tiny vs small. It is even arguable that +3 might be a little light - but I'd need to look at a few others to compare that.
McJarvis 12-12-06, 05:05 PM	Hmm let's see: Quasit: 20ft, fly 50ft (perfect) Dretch: 20ft Quasit: +3 nat Dretch: +5 nat Quasit Specials: Posion (Fortitude DC 13, initial damage 1d4 Dex, secondary damage 2d4 Dex. The save DC is Constitution-based and includes a +2 racial bonus.), SLA (At will—detect good, detect magic, and invisibility (self only); 1/day—cause fear (as the spell, except that its area is a 30-foot radius from the quasit, save DC 11). Caster level 6th. The save DCs are Charisma-based. Once per week a quasit can use commune to ask six questions. The ability otherwise works as the spell (caster level 12th)); Alternate Form (up to medium size: bat, monstrous centipede, toad, and wolf), DR 5/cold iron or good, darkvision 60ft, fast healing 2, immunity to poison, Resistance Fire 10 Dretch Specials: SLA (1/day—scare (DC 12), stinking cloud (DC 13). Caster level 2nd), Summon Demon, DR 5/cold iron or good, darkvision 60ft, immune to elec and poison, Resistance to Acid 10, Cold 10, Fire 10; Telepathy 100ft In short - yes - the Quasit is worth more than the dretch. 50ft fly at perfect is a huge benefit... Don't forget the stat differences. Dretch: Str +2, Con +4, Int-4 Quasit: Str -2, Dex +6, Wis +2 I'd say the Quasit is a helluvalot better.
SauroGrenom 12-12-06, 05:15 PM	I'd say compare the Quasit to the Pseudodragon and the Mephit. They are all tiny flying creatures with a small handful of special abilities and various comparable stat boosts. I think those three are comparable, and that's why I suggested the +3 LA. Both the Pseudodragon and Mephit have +3 LA.
hogarth 12-12-06, 05:19 PM	I'd say compare the Quasit to the Pseudodragon and the Mephit. They are all tiny flying creatures with a small handful of special abilities and various comparable stat boosts. I think those three are comparable, and that's why I suggested the +3 LA. Both the Pseudodragon and Mephit have +3 LA. Mephits are small, not tiny. It seems to me that invisibility at will, damage reduction (not X/magic) and (unconditional) fast healing are fairly powerful abilities -- certainly better than anything a mephit gets.
SauroGrenom 12-12-06, 05:40 PM	The air mephit gets fast healing 2 just for flapping it's wings, and that's the only mephit anyone would want to be. That's the same as the fast healing on a quasit. The DR on the Mephit is a bit better since the Quasit's DR can be defeated in two ways. The Breath Weapon is comparable to the poison in that it's an interesting and different attack form. The difference between tiny and small size is not much. The mephit has a bit faster fly speed. The other spell like abilities are similar in combat impact for the mephit and quasit. The alternative form is probably not as good as the natural form for a quasit. In all the Quasit probably has the better abilities due to the invisibility. But that's probably not enough to push the LA to +4.
Macbrea 12-12-06, 05:44 PM	hmm, wonder if the abyssal books have any word on them.. I cannot seem to find my copy!
McJarvis 12-12-06, 05:44 PM	Believe it or not, I'm agreed with Sauro on this one. With our forces combined, how can we be wrong? :angel:
hogarth 12-12-06, 06:20 PM	hmm, wonder if the abyssal books have any word on them.. I cannot seem to find my copy! Savage Species has an LA of +5 for the quasit, but note that it has an LA of +3 for the dretch.
Hirumajoe 12-12-06, 06:38 PM	I like Psionic Levitate as a level 2 power (although it does mean that you'll get tougher monster fights). I don't like the Dodge/Mobility feat chain much; I'd probably go for Psychic Shot instead if I were in your shoes. Or maybe Expanded Knowledge (Astral Construct), but that's a matter of taste. Hmm... While Psionic Levitate might be nice, I'm planning on getting Metamorphosis at level 10, it'd kinda be redundant. If could swap out powers, I'd probably go that route, but unfortunately Psions have no such luck. As for Psychic shot, I've specifically been avoiding any "Use Psionic Focus" feats. Since I'm hoping to go slayer, at the higher levels I need to be Psionically focused to get my free Mindblank. Similarly, around ECL 12, I'd like to grab +1 Wis and the Speed of Thought feat, which also requires me to stay psionic focused. However, it does bring up the point of getting another archery feat, perhaps Far Shot or Precise Shot. I'll have to think about that. As for the Dodge/Mobility feat chain, I happen to need it for Shadow Dancer. It feels inefficient to grab the first two and not grab the end feat. I suppose I could just grab Combat Reflexes now, and delay my decision making until 9th. Thanks for the thoughts.
SauroGrenom 12-12-06, 07:04 PM	Okay, Valen Sky leveled to ECL 6. And now I'm forced to make all sorts of difficult decisions. I know I'm adding a level Psion (Egoist). I'm trying to decide between Spring Attack and Shot on the Run for Valen. I'm currently leaning towards Spring Attack since that negates AoO's for movement, rather Shot on the Run which only allows a slightly more useful form of Move and Shoot. Or perhaps people have a must have feat for a melee/ranged/caster/stealth character... The contenders are: Chameleon: +10 to hide for 10 min/level. 'Nuff said. EmpathicTransfer: Not sure about this one. Depends on how flexible it is. (I.e can I have my psi-crystal manifest this as a touch ability and transfer the damage to it? Along with ability damage? Or would it transfer to me? And what happens if I try to share the power?) Share Pain: Use my Psi-crystal as a hit point sponge. 50% more hp. Whats not to like? Concussive Blast: My first attack power. Inefficient at 3pp for 1d6 and then 1d6 for every 2 augmented. *However* its force damage with no save, no attack roll, and medium range. AKA the Ghost killer. And also a decent finishing move. Any and all advice welcome. Thanks. My advice is to avoid the psionic healing in any way. You have levels in Ranger, so buy a wand of CLW. The psionic healing powers suck compared to normal healing spells. Concussion Blast is a good one. Ego whip is also one of my favorites (ability damage, augments, medium range, daze the foe). Energy stun is a good low level psion energy area attack. There are very few range psion area attacks untill 4th level. There are some in the 3rd level like bolt, but the area is rather wimpy. Energy burst is OK, but it's centered on you, so the range is crappy, and your allies may get fried. The best area attack is the 4th level energy ball, but that's a kineticist power. That's about all I can offer. The feats thing is up to what you want. Since you're going the mounted psionic archer way, I'd suggest those psionic shot feats. But you've said you want to avoid that. A mounted combat or archery feat may be worthwhile. Shot on the Run is probably worth more to you than spring attack. For ranged builds mobility is key. If the opponent can never get into melee with you, then they die. Plann on flying in some way soon. That will be necessary to keep things as a ranged battle in the comming levels. A good fly speed goes a long way for an archer.
TheMagister 12-12-06, 08:44 PM	I'm removing myself from the Pitlord roster this coming fight week. This leaves a relatively small number of active pitlords. Just an FYI! TM
Hirumajoe 12-12-06, 11:37 PM	My advice is to avoid the psionic healing in any way. You have levels in Ranger, so buy a wand of CLW. The psionic healing powers suck compared to normal healing spells. That's a very good point. Admittedly, there is something to be said for only needing 1 action before hand to get more of a buffer, but Vigor is probably just plain better for that. Concussion Blast is a good one. Ego whip is also one of my favorites (ability damage, augments, medium range, daze the foe). Energy stun is a good low level psion energy area attack. There are very few range psion area attacks untill 4th level. There are some in the 3rd level like bolt, but the area is rather wimpy. Energy burst is OK, but it's centered on you, so the range is crappy, and your allies may get fried. The best area attack is the 4th level energy ball, but that's a kineticist power. Ooh. Ego whip. There's an idea. Also AoE would be handy from Energy Stun. Hrm... More things to consider. That's about all I can offer. The feats thing is up to what you want. Since you're going the mounted psionic archer way, I'd suggest those psionic shot feats. But you've said you want to avoid that. A mounted combat or archery feat may be worthwhile. Shot on the Run is probably worth more to you than spring attack. For ranged builds mobility is key. If the opponent can never get into melee with you, then they die. Plann on flying in some way soon. That will be necessary to keep things as a ranged battle in the comming levels. A good fly speed goes a long way for an archer. Archery feat I could see, but as I'm not planning to continue the mounted thing for too much longer, a using a feat on it probably isn't worth it. Mostly because I don't want to buy an expensive flying mount that will eventually become obsolete. I do plan on getting flight, but unfortunately, not until ECL 10, when I get metamorphosis. Despite what it looks like, Valen really isn't a mounted archer, or even a pure archer. He's a gish, and a gish aiming to do everything (most likely everything badly :) ) Anyways, I'll consider my archer feat options in addition to Spring Attack and Shot on the Run. Thanks.
spasheridan 12-13-06, 04:02 PM	What do folks think of an "amateurs night" - ECL 1 league. I think low level fights would be super easy to run. It would, of course, limit options - but might be somethign fun to kick around.
McJarvis 12-13-06, 04:07 PM	What do folks think of an "amateurs night" - ECL 1 league. I think low level fights would be super easy to run. It would, of course, limit options - but might be somethign fun to kick around. I believe the reasoning behind only have ECL 3 and up is the number of 1 hit kills that would happen at earlier levels... :-O
Macbrea 12-13-06, 04:11 PM	That and the fact some of us despise levels 1-5. :P
Zevox 12-13-06, 04:19 PM	I believe the reasoning behind only have ECL 3 and up is the number of 1 hit kills that would happen at earlier levels... :-O No kidding - I never have liked the "10 hp is high!" feel of levels 1 and 2. Nothing less fun than being in critical condition because that str 6 Kobold managed to hit you once with his spear... Zevox
spasheridan 12-13-06, 04:23 PM	of course - it wouldn't replace the normal ECL 3 starting rules, it'd be an option. BUT - 1 hit kills would sure speed things up, so it'd be fast to pitlord
Macbrea 12-13-06, 04:32 PM	We have plenty of those already at level 3....
MindWandererB 12-13-06, 04:46 PM	of course - it wouldn't replace the normal ECL 3 starting rules, it'd be an option. BUT - 1 hit kills would sure speed things up, so it'd be fast to pitlord You could even have a "grand melee"--an 8-way FFA--and it wouldn't be too rough.
McJarvis 12-13-06, 04:48 PM	You could even have a "grand melee"--an 8-way FFA--and it wouldn't be too rough. I'd be willing to personally Pitlord for a large-scale level 1 FFA, assuming the character sheets didn't have errors. We'd need to develop a map that supported up to 8 players, though...perhaps similar to the Roman Colliseum? :-) edit-> Hell, we could make it a group ECL 1/ECL 2 FFA ring. Say you need to spend 5 creds to start off as a ECL 2 fella, none to start off as ECL 1. (And maintain our current ECL 3+ rules)
hogarth 12-13-06, 04:54 PM	You could even have a "grand melee"--an 8-way FFA--and it wouldn't be too rough. As long as you don't get stuck with 8 forest gnome psychic warrior snipers... "O.K., it's round 327. Everyone failed their Spot check again."
McJarvis 12-13-06, 04:58 PM	As long as you don't get stuck with 8 forest gnome psychic warrior snipers... "O.K., it's round 327. Everyone failed their Spot check again." I'm assuming it would be like the Arena and maps such as the forest wouldn't be plausible. That given, 150gp per 3 fights for Deeper Darkness is a little hefty for this level. :-) [[not to mention the chameleon powerstones...]]
Hirumajoe 12-13-06, 05:00 PM	As long as you don't get stuck with 8 forest gnome psychic warrior snipers... "O.K., it's round 327. Everyone failed their Spot check again." Just do it on the plains. You don't really need starting "boxes" for everyone. Just put 4 in the corners, and 4 in the cardinal directions of North, South, East and West. Nothing to hide behind means sniping is not an option. :)
hogarth 12-13-06, 05:01 PM	I'm assuming it would be like the Arena and maps such as the forest wouldn't be plausible. That given, 150gp per 3 fights for Deeper Darkness is a little hefty for this level. :-) [[not to mention the chameleon powerstones...]] Chameleon costs 1 pp for 10 minutes -- well within the resources for a 1st level psychic warrior. As far as hiding goes, there are plenty of obstacles to peek out around in the Arena map. On the Plains you can use a smokestick to break line of sight and then hunker down behind a hedge, of course.
Hirumajoe 12-13-06, 05:06 PM	Chameleon costs 1 pp for 10 minutes -- well within the resources for a 1st level psychic warrior. As far as hiding goes, there are plenty of obstacles to peek out around in the Arena map. On the Plains you can use a smokestick to break line of sight and then hunker down behind a hedge, of course. Umm... But in that case... Its *obvious* where you are. :-)
hogarth 12-13-06, 05:08 PM	Umm... But in that case... Its *obvious* where you are. :-) "Obvious" != "successful Spot check".
Hirumajoe 12-13-06, 05:11 PM	"Obvious" != "successful Spot check". Umm... Walking into the starting box = "Auto Spot". :)
McJarvis 12-13-06, 05:11 PM	"Obvious" != "successful Spot check". It does when you can move to negate their cover/conceilment. Without deeper darkness actual sniping is impossible...which means it would be a series of hit/runs, with likely 1st shot kills.
hogarth 12-13-06, 05:14 PM	It does when you can move to negate their cover/conceilment. Without deeper darkness actual sniping is impossible...which means it would be a series of hit/runs, with likely 1st shot kills. My point is not that having _one_ sniper is annoying (although it might be). What I'm trying to say is that if _everyone_ is just sitting around saying "You can't find me! Nyah nyah, nyah nyah nyah!", that's a recipe for an annoying fight. (Cf. Noko the invisible pixie vs. Varjo the incorporeal shadow)
Hirumajoe 12-13-06, 06:06 PM	My point is not that having _one_ sniper is annoying (although it might be). What I'm trying to say is that if _everyone_ is just sitting around saying "You can't find me! Nyah nyah, nyah nyah nyah!", that's a recipe for an annoying fight. (Cf. Noko the invisible pixie vs. Varjo the incorporeal shadow) At which point the pitlord invokes divine authority and throws the lot into a 15' by 15' square...
SauroGrenom 12-13-06, 06:19 PM	I think everyone should know that the guild rules have been modified again! With little fan fair this time. It looks like there are edits in the guild actions, and in the regiments and in the guild warfare sections. TM, You should probably check it out and see if there is anything about the changes that may effect your strategy.
SauroGrenom 12-13-06, 06:32 PM	From reading the rules about the world event, I get the impression that you get free activities while on the mission. Is this true?
MindWandererB 12-13-06, 06:40 PM	From reading the rules about the world event, I get the impression that you get free activities while on the mission. Is this true? The goal was to make it so that the interceptions and the monster battles follow essentially the same rules. So if you can do it on an interception, you can do it in one of the "quest" weeks.
spasheridan 12-13-06, 07:17 PM	On Scrolls and Hands: Do you need a hand free to cast a spell from a scroll - IE 1 hand to hold it and 1 hand to wiggle your fingers? Or does the scroll reduce the spell to only a verbal component, with the material & somatic components already built into the scroll?
Zevox 12-13-06, 07:21 PM	On Scrolls and Hands: Do you need a hand free to cast a spell from a scroll - IE 1 hand to hold it and 1 hand to wiggle your fingers? Or does the scroll reduce the spell to only a verbal component, with the material & somatic components already built into the scroll? You need a free hand for somatic components if the spell has them, so two hands would be required for such. Zevox
Hirumajoe 12-13-06, 07:33 PM	You need a free hand for somatic components if the spell has them, so two hands would be required for such. Zevox Oh woops. So I need to draw my sword after I finish my buff sequence. Fortunately True Strike only has verbal components...
spasheridan 12-14-06, 03:05 AM	If you are prone, can you take a 5' step (roll)?
TheMagister 12-14-06, 03:30 AM	Naw. I've seen somewhere that you can crawl 5' as a move action that provokes AoOs. Looking around, I can't tell you where I've seen it. I'm pretty certain that I'm correct, though. TM
Zevox 12-14-06, 08:12 AM	Naw. I've seen somewhere that you can crawl 5' as a move action that provokes AoOs. Looking around, I can't tell you where I've seen it. I'm pretty certain that I'm correct, though. TM Its in the FAQ, I believe. Maybe the errata. I remember having someone point to me to it in one of those when I ran a fight where one player wanted to do it (my first fight with Zero...). Zevox
hogarth 12-14-06, 08:33 AM	Naw. I've seen somewhere that you can crawl 5' as a move action that provokes AoOs. Looking around, I can't tell you where I've seen it. I'm pretty certain that I'm correct, though. TM It's under "Move Actions" in the Combat section. Crawling You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm
Hirumajoe 12-14-06, 10:52 AM	Ok I had a really odd thought this morning, and I thought I'd share it with people, especially those participating in the guild system. I know Cat has tried to make, and continues to try and improve a balanced, interesting, and RP enhancing guild game. (And I respect and thank everyone who puts time and effort into it.) I also know it has a life cycle to it and at some point, someone is going to win, and people are going to want to start over. I have also seen some people express dissatisfaction with the "on the fly" rules corrections. What if instead of next time making additions as people think of them on the fly, we actually started now, and had a good several months of thoughts, ideas and arguments already put into the rules, so they're ready to go when the every one is ready for the next game? Obviously the current guild leaders and Cat should have a large say in said rules, since they have the most experience with them. Although whether they have time for such an endevour, in addition to the current rules set is in doubt. So as side project, I'd be willing to take other people's input and ideas and slowly write said rules up over the course of the next few months. Unless a majority of people feel that such an exercise is silly and that the current rules incarnation will settle down to an equilibrium that will be good for the next run? Lastly, being an experimental physicist, I'd recommend that once the rules are set after months of thought and argument, they not be changed during the run, so as to see the full balance without things being in flux (and forcing plan changes). Perhaps set a fixed lifetime for the game, like 3 or 6 months, and then only after enough data has been accumulated, go in for a round of deliberate changes to fix things. Or if there's consensus among the players that something is badly *broken* only then and go to try to fix it. Thoughts? Am I crazy? P.S. This is in no way designed to step on anyone's toes, and obviously Cat would have any final say in whether such rules by comittee would be adopted for the next game.
McJarvis 12-14-06, 12:52 PM	I've been informed by Cat that you can't obtain wands with fewer than 50 charges ever....so gather info isn't nearly as useful as I thought it was. :(
Caterane 12-14-06, 12:55 PM	...for obvious reasons. A few points in Gather Info and you can acquire 1 charge wands which are much cheaper than any scroll. It's not in the rules and never has been. The confirmation MWB did last week was a mistake (he surely had his mind full with doing pairings so you can't blame him).
McJarvis 12-14-06, 01:02 PM	...for obvious reasons. A few points in Gather Info and you can acquire 1 charge wands which are much cheaper than any scroll. It's not in the rules and never has been. The confirmation MWB did last week was a mistake (he surely had his mind full with doing pairings so you can't blame him). I actually talked to him on IM for that purchase. I'm pretty sure he knew what it was. (and am pretty sure confusion on this topic goes far beyond myself...) edit-> For instance, there are ALREADY characters that have used gather info to get reduced charge wands.....
TelinArtho 12-14-06, 01:15 PM	Once Kraegin hits ECL10 - if he wins this week - he'll be at week 3 of his cycle. Since I want him to be engaged in the Ironman - but since he also has some crafting to do - I need to know what are my options for finishing out his cycle. One avenue - being a member of a guild - just won't work for me unless it is the absolute only option. Other than that - the only thing I see is miniquesting for an ally. Is there any other option I can pursue? (Obviously, if I lose this week - the point is moot. I just couldn't see myself "throwing" this week in order to finish off the cycle before I hit ECL10.)
hogarth 12-14-06, 01:18 PM	I actually talked to him on IM for that purchase. I'm pretty sure he knew what it was. (and am pretty sure confusion on this topic goes far beyond myself...) edit-> For instance, there are ALREADY characters that have used gather info to get reduced charge wands..... I noticed DSugui doing it for his character, so I figured "when in Rome"... And Cat, since when did any rules in the Core Coliseum get made "for obvious reasons"? Is this a new policy? ;)
MindWandererB 12-14-06, 01:20 PM	...for obvious reasons. A few points in Gather Info and you can acquire 1 charge wands which are much cheaper than any scroll. It's not in the rules and never has been. The confirmation MWB did last week was a mistake (he surely had his mind full with doing pairings so you can't blame him). Well, it was sort of a mistake... I can't find anything in the rules one way or the other. Since you can use G.I. to get smaller stacks of ammunition, I saw no reason you can't do it for wands, too. Surely it is broken, but I was having my hands full with the existing rules without trying to change any! @Telin: just do frozen fights.
SauroGrenom 12-14-06, 01:26 PM	There are more undiscussed changes going into the guild rules today. The Regiments, Missions, Warfare, Victory Conditions and Guild activities posts have now been edited again. Guildmasters should look as see if and how the edits effect your guild's strategy. For some guilds you may have to revise the strategy again to account for the changes.
Caterane 12-14-06, 01:42 PM	Well, that we need to tweak the regiment system here and there should be clear since we haven't seen them in action yet. The rest? Minor changes once in a while.
MindWandererB 12-14-06, 02:20 PM	There are more undiscussed changes going into the guild rules today. The Regiments, Missions, Warfare, Victory Conditions and Guild activities posts have now been edited again. Guildmasters should look as see if and how the edits effect your guild's strategy. For some guilds you may have to revise the strategy again to account for the changes. All these actual changes have been announced in the GAP actions post. There are occasional clarifications that go up without notice. Although Cat sometimes sneaks things in without telling me (about which I have lectured him sternly).
spasheridan 12-14-06, 05:26 PM	If you try and sunder a double weapon and ½ is magic and the other ½ is mundane, what is the HP/Hardness of the weapon? Is a dire flail considered a 2-handed hafted weapon for sundering purposes?
TelinArtho 12-14-06, 05:48 PM	Hmmm - I don't see anything that says one way or another unfortunately. First off a dire flail is certainly a 2-handed hafted weapon. So we start with a base hardness of 5 and 10 hit points. Now, one side is magical while the other is not. In my opinion, we can look at this in a couple of ways: 1. The magic applies uniformly. All of the mention about magic boni improving hardness/hit points does not specify a special case for double weapons, so +1/[Ma] is still a +1 - therefore the hardness is 7 and the hit points are 20. 2. The magic bonus only applies when both sides are enchanted. So a +1/[Ma] is still a [Ma] - therefore the hardness and hit points stay at 5 and 10 respectively. 3. The magic bonus applies in half for each side. So the hardness would be 6 and hit points would be 15. In my opinion, the only option that is represented at all by the rules is option 1 - if someone does find something to refute that however, please do bring it up.
DSugui 12-14-06, 06:35 PM	I've been informed by Cat that you can't obtain wands with fewer than 50 charges ever....so gather info isn't nearly as useful as I thought it was. :(...for obvious reasons. A few points in Gather Info and you can acquire 1 charge wands which are much cheaper than any scroll. It's not in the rules and never has been. The confirmation MWB did last week was a mistake (he surely had his mind full with doing pairings so you can't blame him).Really? Oh, man... I was sure I saw this long ago, and I was even making a build based on that... Guess I will have to start from scratch again.
UserNamer 12-15-06, 05:05 AM	Hi, I have a question about prescience, offensive in combination with Magic Missle. Now, if I fire a magic missle(3rd caster, so thats 2 missles), would the prescience damage aply on each missle? For a total of 2d4+2(+2, +2 presience) in this case. Edit: Also, how can I calculate the price for an augmented stone
Vathelokai 12-15-06, 06:31 PM	WOW! Anybody else not been able to log in all day because of some kind of database error?
MindWandererB 12-15-06, 06:40 PM	WOW! Anybody else not been able to log in all day because of some kind of database error? Yup. The whole thing was down. Folks have been IMing me all day about it.
Hirumajoe 12-15-06, 08:32 PM	Would it be possible to use credits to get a mithril Chain shirt with Celestial Armor bonuses rather than plain Chainmail? For reference: Celestial Armor This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check penalty of -2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered light armor, weighs 20 pounds, and it allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day. Faint transmutation [good]; CL 5th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be good, fly; Price 22,400 gp; Cost 12,550 gp + 1,004 XP. If so, how many credits would it cost? 5 for being the same magic on a different item? Secondly, what would the Max Dex and Arcane Spell failure and total cost of such an item be?
DSugui 12-15-06, 08:45 PM	Dudael has just acquired his Leadership cohort. I understand that cohorts do not come with equipment, but can I buy her equipment mid cycle, or do I have to complete the cycle before shopping stuff for the cohort?
MindWandererB 12-15-06, 09:28 PM	Would it be possible to use credits to get a mithril Chain shirt with Celestial Armor bonuses rather than plain Chainmail? For reference: Celestial Armor This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check penalty of -2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered light armor, weighs 20 pounds, and it allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day. Faint transmutation [good]; CL 5th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be good, fly; Price 22,400 gp; Cost 12,550 gp + 1,004 XP. If so, how many credits would it cost? 5 for being the same magic on a different item? Secondly, what would the Max Dex and Arcane Spell failure and total cost of such an item be?Using the recently-allowed custom Charging ability on non-Rhino Hide, the cost would be 10 credits (5 for a custom item, 5 for a different item type). If allowed, max Dex would be +12 (4 base + 2 mithral + 6 celestial), ACP would be -0 (2 -a lot), and ASF would be 0% (20 base -10 mithral -15 celestial, min 0). To get the price, we first subtract the CL 5 Fly 1/day on command (5400 gp) to get 17,000 gp. +3 chainmail would be worth 9300 gp; +4 chainmail would be 16,300 gp. So it looks like the improved mobility is worth about the same as a +1 enhancement bonus plus 700 gp, or a flat 7700 gp. Impossible to tell which. However, I should point out that the twilight armor ability, published in the Book of Exalted Deeds and the PHBII, is a +1 equivalent that only decreases ASF by 10%. This suggests that allowing the celestial stuff to be bought peacemeal at a comparable price is too good. The celestial chainmail would undoubtedly be more expensive if it a more useful base piece of armor. Dudael has just acquired his Leadership cohort. I understand that cohorts do not come with equipment, but can I buy her equipment mid cycle, or do I have to complete the cycle before shopping stuff for the cohort?I don't think this has come up before. I would think that you should be able to equip them mid-cycle (RP-wise, it's the stuff they came with). As written though, you can't.
Hirumajoe 12-15-06, 10:11 PM	Using the recently-allowed custom Charging ability on non-Rhino Hide, the cost would be 10 credits (5 for a custom item, 5 for a different item type). If allowed, max Dex would be +12 (4 base + 2 mithral + 6 celestial), ACP would be -0 (2 -a lot), and ASF would be 0% (20 base -10 mithral -15 celestial, min 0). To get the price, we first subtract the CL 5 Fly 1/day on command (5400 gp) to get 17,000 gp. +3 chainmail would be worth 9300 gp; +4 chainmail would be 16,300 gp. So it looks like the improved mobility is worth about the same as a +1 enhancement bonus plus 700 gp, or a flat 7700 gp. Impossible to tell which. However, I should point out that the twilight armor ability, published in the Book of Exalted Deeds and the PHBII, is a +1 equivalent that only decreases ASF by 10%. This suggests that allowing the celestial stuff to be bought peacemeal at a comparable price is too good. The celestial chainmail would undoubtedly be more expensive if it a more useful base piece of armor. Hmm... So we have to take it apart to work it out? I agree with the 9,000 for +3 in that case, but the 5,400 is actually too low for fly 1/day that *doesn't take up a slot*. I believe it should be either 10,800 for no slot, or 8,100 for being an additional affect on a piece of equipment (similar to how a +5 Hide bonus goes from 2,500 on Elven boots to 3,750 on armor). Also, note the difference between the full price, 22,400 and the 1/2 price on the magic stuff plus (presumably) full base armor of 12,550 . This implies a non-magic component cost of 2,700. Which is very odd to say the least. (Since 12,550 - 2700 = 9850. And 9850*2 + 2700 = 22,400). 9000+10,800+2700 = 22,500. Hrm. Very close but not quite the 22,400. Typo possibly? If we assume the fly is only 8,100 then we get 9000+8,100+2700 = 19,800 with an extra 2,600. So about half and half magic cost and bizarre armor cost? Of course then we're at least beating Mithril chain mail costs of 4,150. Since this is 2,600+2,700 = 5300 for our super base armor effect. Lastly, the XP is odd on this since its actually more than 1/25th the market price. And there's no spells on it that cost xp to cast. The xp cost is correct if the crafting price (12,550) were half the market price of 25,100, but since the market price is only 22,400... This is one very wierd piece of equipment. Since its just plain master work chain mail, it should be a base 300 gp. They seemed to have multiplied this base value by a factor of 9. Or added 2400 gp. A straight 2,400 is much less than the 4000 gp which is what you get from Mithril. That would imply on a mithril chain shirt a cost of 9,900. Which seems somewhat fairer than the 7,700 (plus I'm considering a much higher fly cost of 10,800). Assuming the factor of 9 times the base armor price, it comes out to 29,700 market price (with 19,800 magical component and 9,900 non-magical component). At the end of the day, all I really want is the 0% ASF on a chain shirt. I.e. just the Twilight effect. Or one to three levels of Spellsword. But unfortunately they are not core. And yes, I know I could get bracers of armor, but bracers of armor don't partially work in an Anti-magic field... Heck, I'd pay bracer of armor prices for such an item. (i.e 64,000 for a +3 Chain shirt with no ASF or ACP and provides 4 AC in an anti-magic field). You know, it might be "easier" to simply petition the council of gladius to approve a +1 armor enhancement bonus equivalent effect which drops ASF by 10%... Or maybe spend 15 credits for a "not related to anything else" effect that does the same.
Erithmu 12-16-06, 11:48 AM	Question: Ability burn, as referenced in the Egoist/PW power 'psychofeedback', and Psi Feat 'Body Fuel'. Is that healed between fights, even though it can only be healed through natural means?
TheMagister 12-16-06, 04:14 PM	Memo to Milov - When Questlord Telin says, "This is challenging," anyone else would say "Almost impossible." When Questlord Telin says, "This is extremely hard for your character," it means that you don't really stand a chance unless you REALLY REALLY think outside the box. When Questlord Telin's monsters do 18 damage in the first round...well...that's just QL Telin being QL Telin.
TheMagister 12-16-06, 05:04 PM	Aight. Looks like I'm outta time. See you guys on Monday morning! TM
TelinArtho 12-16-06, 05:34 PM	Memo to Milov - When Questlord Telin says, "This is challenging," anyone else would say "Almost impossible." When Questlord Telin says, "This is extremely hard for your character," it means that you don't really stand a chance unless you REALLY REALLY think outside the box. When Questlord Telin's monsters do 18 damage in the first round...well...that's just QL Telin being QL Telin. You know - between you and Zevox I'm going to develop quite a bad reputation around here... It just goes to show that everyone should have a decent bludgeon around...
nightbanegod 12-16-06, 05:51 PM	Well, it was sort of a mistake... I can't find anything in the rules one way or the other. Since you can use G.I. to get smaller stacks of ammunition, I saw no reason you can't do it for wands, too. Surely it is broken, but I was having my hands full with the existing rules without trying to change any! @Telin: just do frozen fights. i dont see why G.I. doesnt just let you get word out that your looking for wand "X" for about gp "Y" and some wizard says ... ohh sure ive used a few times but it still works... HERE
Zevox 12-16-06, 09:01 PM	Memo to Milov - When Questlord Telin says, "This is challenging," anyone else would say "Almost impossible." When Questlord Telin says, "This is extremely hard for your character," it means that you don't really stand a chance unless you REALLY REALLY think outside the box. When Questlord Telin's monsters do 18 damage in the first round...well...that's just QL Telin being QL Telin. Don't worry TM, Milov was forewarned - hes my brother, after all :) . You know - between you and Zevox I'm going to develop quite a bad reputation around here... Oh come on now, its not as if we're the only ones who've noticed and commented on the way your quests tend to go (nor as if its not true ;) ). I could do a recap of the quests you've run for me if you wish - of four, only one finished successfully, and only one didn't have some instance of my opponents getting insanely lucky (ironically, those are two different quests). Zevox
spasheridan 12-17-06, 12:06 AM	If 1 PC in a pit fight is blind, can he cast Command on the other PC in the fight, or does he need to target his opponent. If he makes a succsesful listen check to target the opponent, is that good enough? If the opponent hasn't moved since the spell was cast, is that good?
Zevox 12-17-06, 12:16 AM	Command has a target of "one living creature," so it is a targeted spell. All targeted spells require you to see your target, not simply target the square they're in. Zevox
spasheridan 12-17-06, 12:38 AM	Thanks!
UserNamer 12-17-06, 08:10 AM	Question: Can I use Body Fuel, between fight? Example, 1st fight: 6pp avalaible > used body fuel 2nd fight: 12pp avalaible > used
Maraxus 12-17-06, 08:59 AM	Good question. the rules say "Your hitpoints will always be restored to full health at no cost. Negative effects on your character (blindness, ability damage, etc) will also be removed for free." However, that was probably not written with body fuel in mind. As you can see with destroyed items, general practice is, that what the opponent does to you (sunder your stuff) will be restored, what you do to yourself (use your items) will not. So, I'd say, you can definitly use body fuel, but your Ability scores will not get restored. (untill the end of the 3FC) However, that's just my opinion, I think this cleraly requests a gm-ruling.
UserNamer 12-17-06, 09:24 AM	So Body Fuel would be an exception? Couse normal ability damage will be healed, but if it's done with Body Fuel, then it's not :p
Erithmu 12-17-06, 09:29 AM	@Usernamer: I have that question in the Oracle thread as it has come up in my fight presently. Give it time, This board is normally a little slower on the weekends, but watch for something monday.
UserNamer 12-17-06, 10:52 AM	Alright then, some other questions: - prescience, offensive in combination with Magic Missle. Now, if I fire a magic missle(3rd caster, so thats 2 missles), would the prescience damage aply on each missle? For a total of 2d4+2(+2, +2 presience) in this case. - how can I calculate the price for an augmented stone
nightbanegod 12-17-06, 11:51 AM	if your magic missle trick works.. im going to be irritated but i would have to rule that it doesnt work QUITE like that since there are many effects that add damage to spells and most (if not all) specify that damage is added to the first missle only. just my :twocents:
NiQil 12-17-06, 11:58 AM	Alright then, some other questions: - prescience, offensive in combination with Magic Missle. Now, if I fire a magic missle(3rd caster, so thats 2 missles), would the prescience damage aply on each missle? For a total of 2d4+2(+2, +2 presience) in this case. - how can I calculate the price for an augmented stone Prescience, Offensive Clairsentience Level: Psion/wilder 1, psychic warrior 1 Display: Material and visual Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 min./level (D) Power Points: 1 Your awareness extends a fraction of a second into the future, allowing you to better aim blows against your opponent. You gain a +2 insight bonus on your damage rolls. Augment: You can augment this power in one or both of the following ways. 1. For every 3 additional power points you spend, the insight bonus gained on your attack rolls increases by 1. 2. If you spend 6 additional power points, you can manifest this power as a swift action. Since the only thing you can target with this power is yourself, I would rule that this does not affect spells or powers from objects at all. So no, this would not add to a wand of MM, or a scroll of MM. That being said, WotC has consistantly ruled that things like this would only add to the first attack/effect/etc, so if you were to cast a CL 3 magic missile from memory, which you would have to to be able to do this as per the previous paragraph, you would add the damage bonus to the first missile only. So a CL 3 casting of MM from memory if that power in effect would do 2d4+2 + 2 Prescience = 2d4+4.
Vathelokai 12-17-06, 12:02 PM	Your awareness extends a fraction of a second into the future, allowing you to better aim blows against your opponent. You gain a +2 insight bonus on your damage rolls. Since the only thing you can target with this power is yourself, I would rule that this does not affect spells or powers from objects at all. So no, this would not add to a wand of MM, or a scroll of MM.It does say 'to your damage rolls' despite the target description.
NiQil 12-17-06, 12:11 PM	It does say 'to your damage rolls' despite the target description. Yes...your damage rolls, not the object's damage rolls. Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that this in the only interpretation...just how I would rule it.
Abyssal Stalker 12-17-06, 12:28 PM	What was the decision on bearded devils infernal wounds? Do they stack or is there only one bleeding wound? There was some conversation on the subject on one of Telin's Denth-quests, but I don't recall the decision.
Vathelokai 12-17-06, 12:40 PM	What was the decision on bearded devils infernal wounds? Do they stack or is there only one bleeding wound? There was some conversation on the subject on one of Telin's Denth-quests, but I don't recall the decision.Cat ruled that they stack. It's somewhere in the tavern, but I don't remember where. It was in response to "taking down the temple 2" (which is how Auburn learned about it :) )
Abyssal Stalker 12-17-06, 12:48 PM	And the result is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10934113&postcount=373) to be seen.
UserNamer 12-17-06, 02:01 PM	Yes...your damage rolls, not the object's damage rolls. Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that this in the only interpretation...just how I would rule it. so it only applies to unarmes strikes? :p
Maraxus 12-17-06, 05:05 PM	Niquil, the worst think to do when someone comes with an ugly interpretation of the rules is to find a more ugly interpretation of the rules. My answer is: Obviously the power is worded badly, effects like offensive prescience are only applied to attacks (anything requirering an attack roll). Of cause, again, I'm irrelevant.
NiQil 12-17-06, 05:19 PM	Niquil, the worst think to do when someone comes with an ugly interpretation of the rules is to find a more ugly interpretation of the rules. My answer is: Obviously the power is worded badly, effects like offensive prescience are only applied to attacks (anything requirering an attack roll). Of cause, again, I'm irrelevant. And it's inflammatory responses like this that continue to cause me to offer my opinions on rulings less and less.
Maraxus 12-17-06, 06:03 PM	Sorry, I had not expected my answer to be inflammatory (teasing maybe?). Seriously. Btw, that was directed at the diffrence between "your attacks" and "attacks by items you use". Whether or not Auto hit spells (and AoE-attacks) get damage bonuses is another question. What I correct here, I really can't say, above is just, how I would rule it, if I should.
MitzaVolchenko 12-17-06, 06:04 PM	While I am inclined to agree that it shouldn't go to spell damage, the RAI is that you are precisely positioning whatever attack you are placing. A magic missile placed in the eye is gonna hurt more than one in the arse. The fact that magic missile is an auto-hit is fairly immaterial. The argument over 'your' is a sticky one to get into. If you want to say that 'your' is only unarmed and melee, what about precisely placed bow shots? soul knie blades thron? I'd say the interpretation in the fight it came up in is correct. It adds no matter how silly it seems to some. Anyone calling cheese on this one pobably needs to re-read their character sheets for similar cheese and then shrug and move on. @NiQil Yep...when tone gets ugy it tends to make it less worth it to speak up or really to bother with anything.
hogarth 12-17-06, 06:37 PM	While I am inclined to agree that it shouldn't go to spell damage, the RAI is that you are precisely positioning whatever attack you are placing. A magic missile placed in the eye is gonna hurt more than one in the arse. The fact that magic missile is an auto-hit is fairly immaterial. I kind of disagree with that last sentence. My opinion would be that it only adds damage to attacks which require an attack roll (weapons and weapon-like spells, mainly) since it mentions "aiming blows better". It's certainly vague enough that you could argue it, though.
Hirumajoe 12-17-06, 11:01 PM	Ok, I've been considering what enchantments to eventually get on Valen Sky's Adamantine Greatsword. I've been thinking that a +X Adamantine Sundering Suppression Greatsword would be kind of cool. Although I'm not positive on how it would work. Here's the relavent info: Suppression An opponent or object struck by this kind of weapon is subject to a targeted dispel psionics power. The wielder makes a dispel check (1d20 + 5 + manifester level, maximum +15) against a DC of 11 + the manifester level of the power to be dispelled. Bows, crossbows, and slings bestow this ability upon their ammunition, but can do so only three times per day. Moderate psychokinesis ML 10th; Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, dispel psionics; Price +2 bonus. Sundering This kind of weapon allows a wielder to attack opponents’ weapons as if he had the Improved Sunder feat. Faint metacreativity; ML 5th; Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, Great Sunder, metaphysical weapon; Price +1 bonus. Targeted Dispel One object, creature, or power is the target of the dispel psionics power. You make a dispel check (1d20 + your manifester level, maximum +10) against the power or against each ongoing power currently in effect on the object or creature. The DC for this dispel check is 11 + the power’s manifester level. If you succeed on a particular check, that power is dispelled; if you fail, that power remains in effect. If you target an object or creature that is the effect of an ongoing power or is under the effect of an ongoing power, you make a dispel check to end the power or its effect. If the object that you target is a psionic item, you make a dispel check against the item’s manifester level. If you succeed, all the item’s psionic properties are suppressed for 1d4 rounds, after which the item recovers on its own. A suppressed item becomes nonpsionic for the duration of the effect. An interdimensional interface is temporarily closed. A psionic item’s physical properties are unchanged: A suppressed psionic sword is still a sword (a masterwork sword, in fact). Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal power such as this. You automatically succeed on your dispel check against any power that you manifested yourself. So what happens when I try to sunder a magical longsword +5 with this hypothetical Greatsword? I figure neither effect goes off until I connect, so the opponent's bonuses are in full effect for the opposed attack roll. However, once I've succeeded on my opposed roll, what then? Does the dispel effect occur first? Presumably versus a CL of 15th (so a DC of 26) for the +5 bonus. Normally a magical longsword +5 would have a hardness of of 10+10 =20, so the adamantine *would not* ignore it. However, if the dispel goes off and succeeds, the sword become non-magical for 1d4 rounds. So does the sword get to ignore the hardness? Secondly, how are the hit points handled. A normal non-magical longsword has 5 hit points, but a +5 longsword has 55 hit points. Do I have to do 5 points of damage or 55 to destroy it? What happens if there's already damage on it a targeted dispell effect lands on it later? Is it destroyed if it had taken more than 5 damage? Or is it at full health unless its taken more than 50? Or am I completely off base and the targeted dispel effect will only target my opponent and not his weapon when I try to sunder it? Thanks, Hirumajoe Edit: Would such a sundering attempt also dispel any spells on the weapon, like Dissolving Weapon (assuming it beat the DC?)
Krytos 12-18-06, 12:33 AM	Quick question, does gaining a Psionic Focus provoke and AoO? I would think so, but I can't find anywhere that says specifically it does.
Erithmu 12-18-06, 12:37 AM	it does and it is a full round action (unless there is psi meditation) It is in the psionic skill section of concentration
Krytos 12-18-06, 12:44 AM	Gain Psionic Focus: Merely holding a reservoir of psionic power points in mind gives psionic characters a special energy. Psionic characters can put that energy to work without actually paying a power point cost-they can become psionically focused as a special use of the Concentration skill. If you have 1 or more power points available, you can meditate to attempt to become psionically focused. The DC to become psionically focused is 20. Meditating is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity.... Durr, I are Stoopid. I read that section like 3 times and missed it every time.
Krytos 12-18-06, 01:41 AM	Do spells end at the begining of the casters turn or the end of the round? Say its round 11, caster is first in initiative order, he has a SoF that ends round 11. Enemy attacks, which beats unbuffed AC but not Buffed AC, does the attack hit?
MindWandererB 12-18-06, 01:59 AM	it does and it is a full round action (unless there is psi meditation) It is in the psionic skill section of concentrationAlthough there is a trick I like: gaining focus defensively. Technically, "You can use Concentration to cast a spell, use a spell-like ability, or use a skill defensively, so as to avoid attacks of opportunity altogether." Since gaining focus is using a skill (Concentration), you can do it defensively with a DC 15 Concentration check. Do spells end at the begining of the casters turn or the end of the round? Say its round 11, caster is first in initiative order, he has a SoF that ends round 11. Enemy attacks, which beats unbuffed AC but not Buffed AC, does the attack hit?Beginning of the caster's turn.
UserNamer 12-18-06, 05:18 AM	Can a 1st lvl wizard use a wand of MM, caster lvl 3?
Hirumajoe 12-18-06, 07:49 AM	Can a 1st lvl wizard use a wand of MM, caster lvl 3? Yes. The only restriction on wand use is that it be on your caster list. (You don't even need to personally know it, or personally be able to cast spells). Since even 1 level of ranger will let you use Cure Light Wounds wands. I believe, a level 1 wizard could even use a wand of Vampiric Touch, Caster Level 20. (Hmmm... 10d6 damage and 10d6 bonus hit points, at level 1... Ignoring the 3*20*15 = 900gp per charge cost and the 45,000 gp cost to buy one).
Macbrea 12-18-06, 09:25 AM	Crazy question. Are you allowed to have the items in any of the three natural standard states? example: Waterskin (Full, Frozen) Reason I am asking has to deal with Ice Mephit reads SRD: An ice mephit heals only if it is touching a piece of ice of at least Tiny size or if the ambient temperature is 32°F. or below. In theory, if he carried enough ice around with him he would be able to heal.
hogarth 12-18-06, 09:37 AM	Crazy question. Are you allowed to have the items in any of the three natural standard states? example: Waterskin (Full, Frozen) Reason I am asking has to deal with Ice Mephit reads SRD: An ice mephit heals only if it is touching a piece of ice of at least Tiny size or if the ambient temperature is 32°F. or below. In theory, if he carried enough ice around with him he would be able to heal. Unfortunately, there isn't a cost for ice listed in the SRD. Unless you're willing to buy an Otiluke's Freezing Sphere spell, I'm not sure how you're going to get some. ;) That said, I don't think it would be out of line to prebuff yourself with a piece of ice before a battle. I'm not an Elder, though.
SauroGrenom 12-18-06, 10:13 AM	Crazy question. Are you allowed to have the items in any of the three natural standard states? example: Waterskin (Full, Frozen) Reason I am asking has to deal with Ice Mephit reads SRD: An ice mephit heals only if it is touching a piece of ice of at least Tiny size or if the ambient temperature is 32°F. or below. In theory, if he carried enough ice around with him he would be able to heal. Ugh. Just go with the air mephet. You carry the wings around all the time.
hogarth 12-18-06, 10:18 AM	Ugh. Just go with the air mephet. You carry the wings around all the time. It's not on the Improved Familiar list, though.
SauroGrenom 12-18-06, 11:11 AM	Are you going for playing a mephet as a playable race with special permission? Or are you going for having a crazy improved familiar? If you are going for the familiar, I think I should remind you that you will need to have the cold subtype to get an ice mephet. Only those with the cold subtype can have an ice mephet as a familiar. Unless you are going for a UA race you cannot get the cold subtype. In which case the ones listed in the feat are guidelines. I'm sure that with 5 credits you can get a air mephet instead as long as you take a race with the Air subtype. As for the ice, I'd say you cannot carry it around. Rather, you can buy or craft a custom magic item that is always icy cold. Like an energy ray item that's cold associated.
hogarth 12-18-06, 11:21 AM	Are you going for playing a mephet as a playable race with special permission? Or are you going for having a crazy improved familiar? If you are going for the familiar, I think I should remind you that you will need to have the cold subtype to get an ice mephet. Only those with the cold subtype can have an ice mephet as a familiar. I've seen a few characters with improved familiars who are lacking the necessary subtype (e.g. Vivi has an air elemental familiar and the Undertaker has a fiendish bat). I had assumed that it was a CoCo house rule to ignore the type/subtype requirement. EDIT: I see now that Macbrea is making a mephit gladiator, not an improved familiar.
Erithmu 12-18-06, 11:38 AM	Another world event question: Should intercept fights be dual posted in the individual Guild threads and the Battles thread with all the pruning that occurs?
SauroGrenom 12-18-06, 11:43 AM	I've seen a few characters with improved familiars who are lacking the necessary subtype (e.g. Vivi has an air elemental familiar and the Undertaker has a fiendish bat). I had assumed that it was a CoCo house rule to ignore the type/subtype requirement. EDIT: I see now that Macbrea is making a mephit gladiator, not an improved familiar. Well then send'm to the prison. I remember that you are allowed to get allies 1 alignment step away from you own. That may allow the fiendish bat.
hogarth 12-18-06, 11:45 AM	Well then send'm to the prison. I remember that you are allowed to get allies 1 alignment step away from you own. That may allow the fiendish bat. Having an evil alignment doesn't give a gladiator the Evil Subtype (tm): Evil Subtype A subtype usually applied only to outsiders native to the evil-aligned Outer PLanes.
SauroGrenom 12-18-06, 11:53 AM	Having an evil alignment doesn't give a gladiator the Evil Subtype (tm): If you look at the feat, some of the variants listed are associated with an alignment, others are associated with a subtype. I think the fiendish template is associated with an alignment.
hogarth 12-18-06, 12:09 PM	If you look at the feat, some of the variants listed are associated with an alignment, others are associated with a subtype. I think the fiendish template is associated with an alignment. If you look at the feat, the table with celestial/fiendish familiars is clearly labeled "Improved Familiar by Type/Subtype". The fiendish/celestial familiars are not in the table "Improved Familiar by Alignment".
McJarvis 12-18-06, 12:18 PM	Clarification needed: It is my understanding that a range personal spell in a wand still must target the wand-user. Is this correct?
Macbrea 12-18-06, 12:30 PM	I am just experimenting with a mephit build. I would need more credits before anything is available anyways. That will take a few weeks.
SauroGrenom 12-18-06, 12:34 PM	If you look at the feat, the table with celestial/fiendish familiars is clearly labeled "Improved Familiar by Type/Subtype". The fiendish/celestial familiars are not in the table "Improved Familiar by Alignment". THen send him to prison.
SauroGrenom 12-18-06, 12:35 PM	Clarification needed: It is my understanding that a range personal spell in a wand still must target the wand-user. Is this correct? I think so, but I'm not sure.
Abyssal Stalker 12-18-06, 01:00 PM	THen send him to prison. Have you people ever really read the feat description. Improved Familiar [General] This feat allows spellcasters to acquire a new familiar from a nonstandard list, but only when they could normally acquire a new familiar. Prerequisites Ability to acquire a new familiar, compatible alignment, sufficiently high level (see below). Benefit When choosing a familiar, the creatures listed below are also available to the spellcaster. The spellcaster may choose a familiar with an alignment up to one step away on each of the alignment axes (lawful through chaotic, good through evil). Improved familiars otherwise use the rules for regular familiars, with two exceptions: If the creature’s type is something other than animal, its type does not change; and improved familiars do not gain the ability to speak with other creatures of their kind (although many of them already have the ability to communicate). The list in Table: Improved Familiar by Alignment presents only a few possible improved familiars. Almost any creature of the same general size and power as those on the list makes a suitable familiar. Nor is the master’s alignment the only possible categorization. For instance, improved familiars could be assigned by the master’s creature type or subtype, as shown in Table: Improved Familiar by Type/Subtype. The last paragraph gives really a lot of freedom of choice. It actually gives yoou the freedom to choose almost anything, as long as the alignment is fairly close (that should probably say; one step off, max). The last paragraph was the reason I suggested even more options for familiars. The lists are only examples. In a TT game, the DM makes the call. That time my list didn't get too much support, I think Sauro and Vath at least didn't argue against it. hogarth (?) or someone argued it. Everybody else just ignored it, so I kinda felt that my suggestion didn't get too much support/interest so that I would've bothered to continue the work. I still have it, if people are interested. And if you guys don't start shooting down my oh-so-overpowered improved familiar...
MindWandererB 12-18-06, 01:03 PM	Another world event question: Should intercept fights be dual posted in the individual Guild threads and the Battles thread with all the pruning that occurs?I don't think it's necessary to double-post the fight in the Battles thread. Just include the results and summary in the Quest Log when the quest is over. After all, the Battles thread is supposed to get pruned eventually, too.
spasheridan 12-18-06, 02:03 PM	Does anyone know if there are specific penalties for having only 1 eye on a character.
Hirumajoe 12-18-06, 03:46 PM	I'm pretty sure that's just a role playing consideration and has no official rules attached to it. Except maybe the inability to use certain magical pairs of lenses properly (i.e. Eyes of the eagle and so forth).
TelinArtho 12-18-06, 03:50 PM	Since there's no rules for it in our system, you can only use 1 eye as a role-playing tie-in. I did this with Darrgon's background, but I didn't use it really before I stopped using Darrgon.
Vathelokai 12-18-06, 07:21 PM	Have you people ever really read the feat description. The last paragraph gives really a lot of freedom of choice. It actually gives yoou the freedom to choose almost anything, as long as the alignment is fairly close (that should probably say; one step off, max). The last paragraph was the reason I suggested even more options for familiars. The lists are only examples. In a TT game, the DM makes the call. That time my list didn't get too much support, I think Sauro and Vath at least didn't argue against it. hogarth (?) or someone argued it. Everybody else just ignored it, so I kinda felt that my suggestion didn't get too much support/interest so that I would've bothered to continue the work. I still have it, if people are interested. And if you guys don't start shooting down my oh-so-overpowered improved familiar... I'm still very interested (and also interested in the custom spell rules I came up with, and any other thing in the SRD that says 'these are examples, make your own if you want." Seriously, lantern archon familair is the way to go; not too much worse than an imp, really.)
Vathelokai 12-18-06, 10:34 PM	Clarification needed: It is my understanding that a range personal spell in a wand still must target the wand-user. Is this correct?Since this effects my fight, I'll help out - ignore the wand this fight so the fight can get done (i.e. go with the rule that personal wands can only be used on the wielder). I don't know if there is a straight answer to that question; I'll look over it before the next time I activate Tweak.
spasheridan 12-18-06, 10:37 PM	if you are holding a greatsword and you trip someone with an unarmed attack, can you take the attack on the person tripped with the greatsword? Moreover, is this a reasonable move action? Draw scroll (move action) while drawing Greatsword (part of any move action with BAB +1)? And then, when you drop the scroll (free) can you wield the Greatsword to take a free attack on a person you just tripped with an unarmed AoO?
MindWandererB 12-18-06, 10:48 PM	if you are holding a greatsword and you trip someone with an unarmed attack, can you take the attack on the person tripped with the greatsword? Moreover, is this a reasonable move action? Draw scroll (move action) while drawing Greatsword (part of any move action with BAB +1)? And then, when you drop the scroll (free) can you wield the Greatsword to take a free attack on a person you just tripped with an unarmed AoO? Yes. No. You can combine drawing a weapon with a normal move, not any move action.
Vathelokai 12-18-06, 11:47 PM	...oh and i didnt point it out but i think that your not able to put ranks in skills that are trained only. at least that was my conception of it. you couldnt put ranks in em unless they are class skills... anything that says otherwise? I think that was a 3.0 thing that they dropped in 3.5, but I'm not sure. All I really remember was that there was a chart for it in the old books that isn't in the new books. I'll ask in the tavern. I just had this exchange... anyone know if that's a rule or not?
NiQil 12-19-06, 01:06 AM	I just had this exchange... anyone know if that's a rule or not? I never played 3.0 so I couldn't say for sure... But I can say that there is no prohibition on where you can spend your skill points....they can be either class or cross-class, trained or untrained. The only caveat to that is that in a normal TT game, if you do not start by putting ranks in a trained skill, most DM's require you to be able to justify putting ranks in it at a later time (such as by being taught to sail to justify putting ranks in Profession: Sailing, for example). Since that does not happen in this forum, to my knowledge, there are no restrictions.
MindWandererB 12-19-06, 02:15 AM	There used to be certain skills called "exclusive." Use Magic Device, Animal Empathy (when it was a skill), maybe one other. But the "trained only" skills are special only in that you can't even attempt a check unless you have 1 full rank. You can purchase that rank cross-class if you like.
Macbrea 12-19-06, 08:49 AM	I know you can attempt them with 1/2 ranks in 3.5 otherwise a feat is written kind of wanky in one of the books. Jack of All Trades (Cadv. pg 110) You have picked up a smattering of even the most obscure skills. Prerequisite: Int 13 Benefit: You can use any skill as if you had 1/2 rank in that skill. This benefit allows you to attempt checks with skills that normally don't allwo untrained skill checks (such as Decipher Script and Knowledge). If a skill doesn't allow skill checks (such as Speak Language), this feat has no effect. Normal: Without this feat, you can't attempt some skill checks (..abreviated by me..) unless you have ranks in the skill. As you can see, RAI says you can use trained skills at 1/2 a rank.
MindWandererB 12-19-06, 01:50 PM	We'd raised that point before, but the PHB clearly says that you need 1 rank to use an untrained skill. CV is in error.
Macbrea 12-19-06, 02:04 PM	Well it's correct as per the SRD. If you buy a class skill, your character gets 1 rank (equal to a +1 bonus on checks with that skill) for each skill point. If you buy other classes’ skills (cross-class skills), you get ½ rank per skill point. Your maximum rank in a class skill is your character level + 3. Your maximum rank in a cross-class skill is one-half of this number (do not round up or down). This indicates you can have a ½ rank in a skill. A ½ rank in a skill is a +0 bonus because of the rounding rule in 3.5 of always round fractions down. But having greater then no ranks in a skill makes you trained as per this rule. A character’s number of ranks in a skill is based on how many skill points a character has invested in a skill. Many skills can be used even if the character has no ranks in them; doing this is called making an untrained skill check. This means that the feat listed above is correct as per the SRD.
orsono 12-19-06, 02:18 PM	Hello, I need help getting my new companion ready for Coco. I just lvl to 4th. so I want an Ape. but I want to have it fully trained with Combat Riding and Attack all. how do I go about doing that? and how many weeks does it take to teach all those tricks?
TelinArtho 12-19-06, 02:23 PM	As a full action, you can use Handle Animal to train an animal 2 tricks in one week. Otherwise, it is one trick per week as a free activity. The bonus trick from the druid is free and does not require training time (so go ahead and pick it). What I would suggest is just setting your character title to something like this: FULL ACTIVITY: Dec 20 2006 Training [Animal Companion Name Here] for Combat Riding (1/3) (and then update each week as you go) That's what I did with Zax.
orsono 12-19-06, 02:27 PM	Damn you are fast Telin!! thank that is what I will do. but 3 weeks!!! I better start working on another character. I might do a cleric... or rogue to think about it I have not seen many rogues around here. I imagine that it will be super hard to win with them.
MindWandererB 12-19-06, 02:29 PM	Well it's correct as per the SRD. This indicates you can have a ½ rank in a skill. A ½ rank in a skill is a +0 bonus because of the rounding rule in 3.5 of always round fractions down. But having greater then no ranks in a skill makes you trained as per this rule. This means that the feat listed above is correct as per the SRD. You missed this: Trained Only: If this notation is included in the skill name line, you must have at least 1 rank in the skill to use it. If it is omitted, the skill can be used untrained (with a rank of 0). If any special notes apply to trained or untrained use, they are covered in the Untrained section (see below).Emphasis added.
Macbrea 12-19-06, 02:36 PM	Ok, to be able to combat ride an animal you need to teach it Attack, Come, Defend, Down, Guard, and Heel tricks. This may be done in the following method. As a free action [able to be done during a fight] you may teach it 1 trick. As a full action [requires a week off and posting of full action on top of character] you may teach it 2 tricks. For gaining your companion at level 4 you get 1 bonus trick which according to the records is taught for free with no time. Now, this gives you a choice: 1) You can take Ape (Tricks: Attackb) and enter a fight teaching it one of the other 5 tricks that week and once each week til you get all 6 tricks for Combat riding package. Then spend an extra week to teach it improved Attack. You get paired the whole time doing it this method but don't have the Ape in full rideable mode. 2) You can set your character to FULL Activity: Training Tricks: Guard and Defend. Then apply Bonus Trick of attack. To get yourself to the halfway point. This also results in you not being paired that week with that character. Continue doing this until you have all 7 tricks. Three weeks in total.
McJarvis 12-19-06, 04:05 PM	General Alert: I'm reducing the number of fights I run to 2 fights only(no stipulation for extra fights if needed) & Krytos has told me he is taking a week off CoCo. Not sure how this will affect pairings...
The_First_Horseman 12-19-06, 05:57 PM	Hey all, I'm new to the CoCo, and had a quick question; do psionic duergars gain the dwarven weapon familiarity with waraxes and urgroshes? I don't think they do, but I'm just making sure, since it doesn't say so in the monster entry of the SRD.
MindWandererB 12-19-06, 06:01 PM	Hey all, I'm new to the CoCo, and had a quick question; do psionic duergars gain the dwarven weapon familiarity with waraxes and urgroshes? I don't think they do, but I'm just making sure, since it doesn't say so in the monster entry of the SRD. Huh. Nor does it in the races section. I guess they don't. Odd. Oh, and welcome!
TheMagister 12-19-06, 06:14 PM	Hi, First! You should meet Niqil. I think he knows you! {inside joke. Check his old character listings.} Could someone do me a favor and check over Rubicanti for me? I updated him (spent a ton of cash and changed a 1st level psychic warrior power [change pending in Training Hall]). I just wanna make sure I did it all right. Sometimes I get shortsighted. TM
Krytos 12-19-06, 06:19 PM	... Krytos has told me he is taking a week off CoCo. Yea, I'm taking a week off. I predict things will be hectic this week with Christmas on Monday. On the plus side, I won't be running my character either, so that's only a net loss of 1 fight from me.
MindWandererB 12-19-06, 06:21 PM	General Alert: I'm reducing the number of fights I run to 2 fights only(no stipulation for extra fights if needed) & Krytos has told me he is taking a week off CoCo. Not sure how this will affect pairings...Yea, I'm taking a week off. I predict things will be hectic this week with Christmas on Monday. On the plus side, I won't be running my character either, so that's only a net loss of 1 fight from me.Since I'm taking up the pitlord reins again, that'll be a net loss of zero. Especially with what will hopefully be a decline in guild hostilities... (fingers crosses).
TheMagister 12-19-06, 06:23 PM	{Guildmaster of WAR} "Need BLOOD SACRIFICE!" j/k. I'm really not bloodthirsty. ... My throat was just dry. :rimshot:
The_First_Horseman 12-19-06, 06:32 PM	Huh. Nor does it in the races section. I guess they don't. Odd. Oh, and welcome! So is that an official no, or what?
Hirumajoe 12-19-06, 07:25 PM	So is that an official no, or what? Given that MWB is one of the elders around here, I'd take that as an official no unless another elder speaks up. And welcome!
The_First_Horseman 12-19-06, 07:30 PM	Ok, well, I think i'll manage either way. My first character should be up soon, just ironing everything out. One more question, how much do powerstones cost? Is it 25 gp for a 1st lvl, ML 1 stone?
MindWandererB 12-19-06, 07:42 PM	Ok, well, I think i'll manage either way. My first character should be up soon, just ironing everything out. One more question, how much do powerstones cost? Is it 25 gp for a 1st lvl, ML 1 stone? Yup. http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicItemsPSP.html
The_First_Horseman 12-19-06, 07:49 PM	Yup. http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicItemsPSP.html Ah, thanks.
The_First_Horseman 12-19-06, 08:02 PM	Ok, my first character, http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10956637&postcount=1026]Rinn (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10956637&postcount=1026), is up. would someone please look over him and make sure I did everything correct?
MindWandererB 12-19-06, 08:33 PM	Ok, my first character, http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10956637&postcount=1026]Rinn (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10956637&postcount=1026), is up. would someone please look over him and make sure I did everything correct? Some things that caught my eye: Your BAB is only +1, not +2 (+0 PsiWar). Same for Fort save (only +7, not +8). You aren't level 3, so you don't have that feat. You have a +2 racial bonus on your Craft checks.
spasheridan 12-19-06, 09:57 PM	If I have Craft (weaponsmith) can I use that skill to make money during fights instead of crafting items for use, or do I need to take another craft skill to do that?
NiQil 12-19-06, 10:08 PM	If I have Craft (weaponsmith) can I use that skill to make money during fights instead of crafting items for use, or do I need to take another craft skill to do that? You need another craft skill.
spasheridan 12-19-06, 10:31 PM	Finael would like to go on a quest to get himself an animal companion. I'd like a big old hunting (riding) dog as my animal companion. Is this where I advertise in search of a quest lord? BTW - Thanks Niquil for the info.
MindWandererB 12-19-06, 10:35 PM	Finael would like to go on a quest to get himself an animal companion. I'd like a big old hunting (riding) dog as my animal companion. Is this where I advertise in search of a quest lord? BTW - Thanks Niquil for the info. This is the right place, but remember that quests aren't required for most class feature allies, including animal companions.
Vathelokai 12-19-06, 10:57 PM	For all who are interested; the TAO plot hook for the World event is in the TAO thread now. If you want to use it, then go ahead, if not,then don't. It takes it's back story from DSugui's quest 'Ruins of Cradalart.'
The_First_Horseman 12-19-06, 11:25 PM	Some things that caught my eye: Your BAB is only +1, not +2 (+0 PsiWar). Same for Fort save (only +7, not +8). You aren't level 3, so you don't have that feat. You have a +2 racial bonus on your Craft checks. Ah, yes, that was when Rinn was a regular dwarf, not a duergar. Thanks.
spasheridan 12-20-06, 12:04 AM	This is the right place, but remember that quests aren't required for most class feature allies, including animal companions.Sweet. So - I have a riding dog that's been with me since creation. Is it reasonable to make that riding dog my companion? Or do I need to buy a new one? Or do I just get a new companion?
Zevox 12-20-06, 12:12 AM	Sweet. So - I have a riding dog that's been with me since creation. Is it reasonable to make that riding dog my companion? Or do I need to buy a new one? Or do I just get a new companion? You just get a new companion. Animal Companions are acquired via a 24-hour ritual, so as long as you're not in mid cycle, you can acquire a new one anytime as you wish, presuming any old one is dismissed first. It is not possible to make a bought or handle animal ally into an animal companion. Zevox
spasheridan 12-20-06, 12:17 AM	badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf.Warhorses and riding dogs are already trained to bear riders into combat, and they don’t require any additional training for this purpose.does this mean that if I choose a riding dog for my animal companion it comes with the combat riding training? Or do I get a riding dog that's trickless? Finally - if an ECL 5 character take his Riding Dog Animal Companion into the arena with, can he also take his ally riding dog as well? They're CR 1
Hirumajoe 12-20-06, 12:29 AM	does this mean that if I choose a riding dog for my animal companion it comes with the combat riding training? Or do I get a riding dog that's trickless? Finally - if an ECL 5 character take his Riding Dog Animal Companion into the arena with, can he also take his ally riding dog as well? They're CR 1 While I'm not positive on the tricks an Animal companion starts with, I do know that class allies such as Familiars, Animal Companions, Psicrystals and so forth do not count against your limit of allies. So yes, you can bring your purchased riding dog in addition to your animal companion riding dog. However, there are some exceptions to that rule, including Leadership feat allies, Thrallherd allies, and those summoned by spells like Planar ally.
renlim 12-20-06, 12:52 AM	I'm reborning a charicter and i dont know where to let the "higher ups" know about it. Can someone tell me who i should PM or post at. thanks.
Erithmu 12-20-06, 12:59 AM	I'm reborning a charicter and i dont know where to let the "higher ups" know about it. Can someone tell me who i should PM or post at. thanks.PM Pitlords, always pitlords for getting a character on the roster.
The_First_Horseman 12-20-06, 01:31 AM	For the Domain Wizard variant in the UA section of the rules, is taking a domain similar to specializing in that I can't cast any other spells, or that I can cast any spell but cast only the domain spells at the +1 CL? Or is it somewhere in between the two?
MindWandererB 12-20-06, 01:50 AM	For the Domain Wizard variant in the UA section of the rules, is taking a domain similar to specializing in that I can't cast any other spells, or that I can cast any spell but cast only the domain spells at the +1 CL? Or is it somewhere in between the two?It's like the specialist wizard--or rather, like a Diviner. You choose one school from which you cannot cast any spells, so you can cast 7/8 of all the sor/wiz spells on the list. does this mean that if I choose a riding dog for my animal companion it comes with the combat riding training? Or do I get a riding dog that's trickless?Animal companions never come with tricks. You have to train it yourself or pay a trainer.
spasheridan 12-20-06, 02:18 AM	What tricks do you need to learn to be able to wear Barding?
MindWandererB 12-20-06, 02:22 AM	What tricks do you need to learn to be able to wear Barding? The entire Combat Riding package.
spasheridan 12-20-06, 02:29 AM	I have an item called a Master Work Dog Whistle that is giving Finael a +2 to his Handle Animal checks. Is this still legal? Apparenlty the MW Bit & Bridle are not legal anymore so ... Also - is a metapsionic feat considered a psionic feat for Psionic Body?
c00lz3 12-20-06, 03:43 AM	Also - is a metapsionic feat considered a psionic feat for Psionic Body? I dont belive it does becuase otherwise it would be mentiond in Psionic Body. I have a question about transparancy. Would you be able to use powers on your animal companion/familiar with the share spells ability?
hogarth 12-20-06, 08:23 AM	What tricks do you need to learn to be able to wear Barding? Note that an animal can still wear leather barding (say) without the Combat Riding package (since there's no nonproficiency penalty for leather armor).
Macbrea 12-20-06, 09:07 AM	Same is true for Mithril chain shirt barding.
hogarth 12-20-06, 09:28 AM	Same is true for Mithril chain shirt barding. Sure, but mithral chain shirt barding for a horse would cost 4,400 gp! In that case I'd stick with leather barding. ;)
Macbrea 12-20-06, 09:30 AM	Actually, It should cost. 1400gp for a Large Non-Humanoid Mithril chain shirt. (100gp x 4) +1000gp
hogarth 12-20-06, 09:36 AM	Actually, It should cost. 1400gp for a Large Non-Humanoid Mithril chain shirt. (100gp x 4) +1000gp How do you figure that the mithral cost is not multiplied? All I see in the SRD is: "Armor for a horse (a Large nonhumanoid creature) costs four times as much as armor for a human[.]" I don't see anything about the material cost not being multiplied. Logically, you would be using 4x as much mithral to create it, wouldn't you?
TheMagister 12-20-06, 10:44 AM	How do you figure that the mithral cost is not multiplied? All I see in the SRD is: "Armor for a horse (a Large nonhumanoid creature) costs four times as much as armor for a human[.]" I don't see anything about the material cost not being multiplied. Logically, you would be using 4x as much mithral to create it, wouldn't you? That's the way I look at it.
Macbrea 12-20-06, 11:06 AM	Ah your sort of right as per the FAQ: On page 217 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide, it states that “the cost of the masterwork quality and any magical enhancement remains the same” regardless of a creature’s unusual size or shape. Adamantine and mithral both state that items made from such material are masterwork quality and the masterwork cost is part of the material cost listed. How much would a set of mithral chainmail barding for my warhorse cost? A strict reading of the rules indicates that in such a case the masterwork cost for armor should be subtracted from the special material price before applying the multiplier for any unusual size or shape of the intended wearer. For example, according to the Armor for Unusual Creatures chart on page 123 of the Player’s Handbook, a set of chainmail barding for a warhorse (a Large nonhumanoid creature) would normally cost 600 gp (four times the normal cost of 150 gp). A set of mithral chainmail barding would cost 16,000 gp: 600 gp for the chainmail barding plus 15,400 gp (the cost of mithral medium armor [4,000 gp], minus the masterwork cost for armor [150 gp], times 4). So, According to those rules the cost of the armor should be: (1000-150+100)x4+150gp= 4,050gp for Mithril Chain Shirt Barding
TheMagister 12-20-06, 11:11 AM	Hi, First! You should meet Niqil. I think he knows you! {inside joke. Check his old character listings.} Could someone do me a favor and check over Rubicanti for me? I updated him (spent a ton of cash and changed a 1st level psychic warrior power [change pending in Training Hall]). I just wanna make sure I did it all right. Sometimes I get shortsighted. TM Bump. Pretty please? I just want a few opinions.
The_First_Horseman 12-20-06, 11:23 AM	And now my second character is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10960147&postcount=1028).
McJarvis 12-20-06, 11:31 AM	Bump. Pretty please? I just want a few opinions. Yeah, I'm pretty sure NiQil knows him. ;)
TheMagister 12-20-06, 11:35 AM	Yeah, I'm pretty sure NiQil knows him. ;) Gee, TANKS. :pbbbtt:
UserNamer 12-20-06, 11:35 AM	Are melee touch attacks that deal damage actual "melee attacks", fur the use of the Knockdown feat, or for any thing else that gives a bonus on "melee damage rolls" Example : Inflict Light Wounds?
Macbrea 12-20-06, 11:38 AM	And now my second character is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10960147&postcount=1028). You are unable to play a Domain wizard without the expenditure of 10 credits in coco.
Hirumajoe 12-20-06, 11:40 AM	Bump. Pretty please? I just want a few opinions. One thing to consider: Instead of using Monk 3 to get your bonus 10', go Monk 2 and Psywar 2 to grab speed of thought with your bonus feat? Or are you planning on using your psionic focus alot in the future?
UserNamer 12-20-06, 11:41 AM	And now my second character is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10960147&postcount=1028). You might want to get some augmented stones of Vigor, couse 13hp is not much.
UserNamer 12-20-06, 11:42 AM	One thing to consider: Instead of using Monk 3 to get your bonus 10', go Monk 2 and Psywar 2 to grab speed of thought with your bonus feat? Or are you planning on using your psionic focus alot in the future? I don't think he can change that now..
The_First_Horseman 12-20-06, 11:43 AM	You are unable to play a Domain wizard without the expenditure of 10 credits in coco. Ah, missed that in the rule entry. Thanks.
TheMagister 12-20-06, 11:48 AM	One thing to consider: Instead of using Monk 3 to get your bonus 10', go Monk 2 and Psywar 2 to grab speed of thought with your bonus feat? Or are you planning on using your psionic focus alot in the future? I thought about that, but somewhere in Rubicanti's future is a Monk's Belt. At level 8 his unarmed damage jumps to 1d10 (or 2d8 enlarged). Without a strength mod, that's a pretty good increase (1d8 to 2d8), and one of the few ways such increases will come to a monk (who can't enchant his fists). And Rubi won't be using his Focus at all unless it's to manifest defensively (which could happen). Thanks for the advice! What do you think about the melee setup/combination?
Macbrea 12-20-06, 11:54 AM	Are melee touch attacks that deal damage actual "melee attacks", fur the use of the Knockdown feat, or for any thing else that gives a bonus on "melee damage rolls" Example : Inflict Light Wounds? Touch You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. I think a touch spell is a weapon at the point you go looking for someone to tap with it. If we look in the FAQ Does a rogue apply sneak attack damage when throwing alchemist fire or casting a spell such as acid splash? Yes. The bonus damage from sneak attack, skirmish, or sudden strike applies to any attack that requires an attack roll, even touch attacks. You will notice the extra damage from sneak attack is applied even to touch attacks. So, it would be possible to sneak attack with an inflict spell. Example: A rogue 5/cleric 5 sneak attacking with Inflict moderate wounds 2d8+5 negative energy + 3d6 negative energy damage I would guess that knockdown statement of anything that does 10 damage in melee would count for touch spells also.
McJarvis 12-20-06, 12:07 PM	Example: A rogue 5/cleric 5 sneak attacking with Inflict moderate wounds 2d8+5 negative energy + 3d6 negative energy damage What's really fun is sneak attacking teammates with positive energy damage. <_< >_>
Hirumajoe 12-20-06, 12:09 PM	And now my second character is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10960147&postcount=1028). I'd just like to note the CoCo can be a rough place with optimized builds all over the place, so thats something to consider when making a character. However if you want a Blue Cerebremancer for fun, then this character doesn't look to bad. However, some points from a power gaming munchkin perspective. 1) Characters with LA adjustments and planning to go pure caster don't mix. 2) Characters with LA adjustments and planning to go a split pure caster path *really* don't mix. You'll have access to 2nd level spells at the earliest of ECL 5, most likely ECL 6. You won't be able to take your prestige class until ECL 8, and you won't have level 3 spells until ECL 10. 3)The Blue goblin is frankly not worth the +1 LA. Compare it to a Grey Elf if you want the Int bonus. It even has wizard as a favored class. Although if you plan to keep the levels balanced, favored class becomes a non-issue. If you want to play a small goblin like character who's compensates by spell casting, I'd recommend going with a normal goblin. You get 1 level ahead, you can an additional 2.5 hp + con modifier, at the cost of 1 pp and 2 Int (which shuffles over to Dex, which is still very handy for a caster). The extra level will most likely get you more power points in the long run than the 1 pp and +2 Int. 4) While this character is going to have *alot* of flash bang by going Kinetic and Evocation, its kinda a bit excessive. Being able to dish out Energy Missile *and* an extra fireball isn't that necessary. Unfortunately, as was pointed out above, the Domain Wizards variants require 10 credits (the easiest way to earn is to run fights.) However, given the CoCo house rule that you need to give one school of spells, you might want to look into either a basic Wizard or a full specialist. Diviner is apparently highly recommended around here, partly becuase you only need to give up one school. Then again, I can see the RP appeal of a small goblin character who's solution to everything is a flaming ray or a fireball. Anyways, just some thoughts on it.
TelinArtho 12-20-06, 12:10 PM	Well, I would disagree with the inference that the sneak attack damage takes on the energy qualities in this case - I'll have to read up more on it though.
Hirumajoe 12-20-06, 12:19 PM	I thought about that, but somewhere in Rubicanti's future is a Monk's Belt. At level 8 his unarmed damage jumps to 1d10 (or 2d8 enlarged). Without a strength mod, that's a pretty good increase (1d8 to 2d8), and one of the few ways such increases will come to a monk (who can't enchant his fists). So no psionic fist/Unavoidable Strike feats? Arguably, those can be far more useful than the generic +1 to hit with weapon focus (unarmed). I guess I'm personally not all that fond of the weapon focus feat. I don't know what your long term plans feat wise are, but Psionic Fist, Unavoidable Strike and Psionic Meditation can be a nice combo. And you can avoid the AoO from Psionic Meditation by using the skill on the defensive (same as manifesting a power on the defensive). I And Rubi won't be using his Focus at all unless it's to manifest defensively (which could happen). Thanks for the advice! What do you think about the melee setup/combination? Hammer is nice in that its a swift action. So why use an augmented ML 3 Djore? Just use a ML 1 or 2. Much cheaper. And using it with flurry of blows is cute, since you get it twice a round. Anyways, thats my two cents.
McJarvis 12-20-06, 12:29 PM	Well, I would disagree with the inference that the sneak attack damage takes on the energy qualities in this case - I'll have to read up more on it though. I can save you time-> the question of whether sneak attack can increase healing is an age-old Char Op board debate. :-) I would NEVER allow it in my home games... but it is an interesting idea, nonetheless
The_First_Horseman 12-20-06, 12:30 PM	I'd just like to note the CoCo can be a rough place with optimized builds all over the place, so thats something to consider when making a character. However if you want a Blue Cerebremancer for fun, then this character doesn't look to bad. However, some points from a power gaming munchkin perspective. 1) Characters with LA adjustments and planning to go pure caster don't mix. 2) Characters with LA adjustments and planning to go a split pure caster path *really* don't mix. You'll have access to 2nd level spells at the earliest of ECL 5, most likely ECL 6. You won't be able to take your prestige class until ECL 8, and you won't have level 3 spells until ECL 10. 3)The Blue goblin is frankly not worth the +1 LA. Compare it to a Grey Elf if you want the Int bonus. It even has wizard as a favored class. Although if you plan to keep the levels balanced, favored class becomes a non-issue. If you want to play a small goblin like character who's compensates by spell casting, I'd recommend going with a normal goblin. You get 1 level ahead, you can an additional 2.5 hp + con modifier, at the cost of 1 pp and 2 Int (which shuffles over to Dex, which is still very handy for a caster). The extra level will most likely get you more power points in the long run than the 1 pp and +2 Int. 4) While this character is going to have *alot* of flash bang by going Kinetic and Evocation, its kinda a bit excessive. Being able to dish out Energy Missile *and* an extra fireball isn't that necessary. Unfortunately, as was pointed out above, the Domain Wizards variants require 10 credits (the easiest way to earn is to run fights.) However, given the CoCo house rule that you need to give one school of spells, you might want to look into either a basic Wizard or a full specialist. Diviner is apparently highly recommended around here, partly becuase you only need to give up one school. Then again, I can see the RP appeal of a small goblin character who's solution to everything is a flaming ray or a fireball. Anyways, just some thoughts on it. Thanks for the rundown, but this character is more for fun than anything. However, don't count out the possibility of a rebirth if I decide I want to make a more serious build. ;)
TelinArtho 12-20-06, 12:32 PM	Yeah - I had just decided that for myself. Be warned - if that discussion comes up here - I will agree to the extra damage being the same type for sneak attacks - but the recipient can't be aware of the "attack" and will definitely have to make the will save for half damage :) If the recipient is an animal - it would very much "misinterpret" the attack as an actual attack - so beware on who you use it on :)
hogarth 12-20-06, 12:33 PM	I can save you time-> the question of whether sneak attack can increase healing is an age-old Char Op board debate. :-) I would NEVER allow it in my home games... but it is an interesting idea, nonetheless If you don't like sneak attack Cure Light wounds, how about a Cure Light Wounds spirited charge? ;) (I wouldn't allow it. Duh.)
McJarvis 12-20-06, 12:36 PM	If you don't like sneak attack Cure Light wounds, how about a Cure Light Wounds spirited charge? ;) (I wouldn't allow it. Duh.) CDG healing anyone? Not only do you get healed, but you get healed so well that you have to make a fort save or die from it. :-O
Maraxus 12-20-06, 12:36 PM	Can False life be cast as a pre-fight action? It needs a roll (How many hit point I get) but can't possible go "wrong".
Hirumajoe 12-20-06, 12:36 PM	Yeah - I had just decided that for myself. Be warned - if that discussion comes up here - I will agree to the extra damage being the same type for sneak attacks - but the recipient can't be aware of the "attack" and will definitely have to make the will save for half damage :) If the recipient is an animal - it would very much "misinterpret" the attack as an actual attack - so beware on who you use it on :) Oh my. Imagine a Rogue 9 / Shadow Dancer 1 with high Cha and UMD. He aquires a wand of CLW and brings along his trusty Ogre leadership ally. Make sure the Ogre Barbarian ally has an *abysmal* spot check and low wisdom. Rogue hides in Ogre's shadow. Rogue sneak attacks with CLW. One 15gp charge = 1d8+1+5d6 hp. Ogre barbrian gets mad, goes into fit of rage and smashes nearest annoyance it can find, in this case the opponent. Its an amusing RP situation at the very least...
Hirumajoe 12-20-06, 12:39 PM	Can False life be cast as a pre-fight action? It needs a roll (How many hit point I get) but can't possible go "wrong". Yes. It just needs to survive the time roll.
TelinArtho 12-20-06, 12:39 PM	Can False life be cast as a pre-fight action? It needs a roll (How many hit point I get) but can't possible go "wrong". It can and the first pitlord just rolls the temp hp in the first fight. The same is done for spells like goodberry fairly frequently. I would strongly suggest including its presence in both your Prefight actions as well as in your tactics so that the pitlord doesn't miss it.
TheMagister 12-20-06, 12:39 PM	So no psionic fist/Unavoidable Strike feats? Arguably, those can be far more useful than the generic +1 to hit with weapon focus (unarmed). I guess I'm personally not all that fond of the weapon focus feat. I don't know what your long term plans feat wise are, but Psionic Fist, Unavoidable Strike and Psionic Meditation can be a nice combo. And you can avoid the AoO from Psionic Meditation by using the skill on the defensive (same as manifesting a power on the defensive). Pyrokineticist. Yeah, I mean it. Hand Afire and Nimbus for +4d6 fire damage per unarmed strike, plus DR 5/magic, a 5d6 fire ray, and fire resistance. ... And mostly because nobody's done pyro on this board yet, and I wanted to play a monk. Hammer is nice in that its a swift action. So why use an augmented ML 3 Djore? Just use a ML 1 or 2. Much cheaper. And using it with flurry of blows is cute, since you get it twice a round. Anyways, thats my two cents. Well, this is one of the things I wanted opinions on. Since I'm going Pyro, pp are going to be very scarce (like, four or five...EVER). So manifesting Hammer every round isn't really possible in the 3FC. That dorje will probably last my entire career, and I can manifest, AoO (maybe), fight, fight, and remanifest. That's about as good as its going to get. Edit: maybe invest in some Cognizance Crystals instead? Hmmm. I'm also thinking about investing in some powerstones of painful strike (+1d6 non-lethal added to natural weapon strikes for 1 round/level), but the low duration is a real pain in the arse. I'm also wondering what to do with my level 6 & 9 feat slots.
TelinArtho 12-20-06, 12:43 PM	I have an item called a Master Work Dog Whistle that is giving Finael a +2 to his Handle Animal checks. Is this still legal? Apparenlty the MW Bit & Bridle are not legal anymore so ... You can check the current list of available masterwork tools and their cost in the Rules of Gladius thread. Yes the whistle is fine, but the bit and bridle is not.
Hirumajoe 12-20-06, 12:43 PM	Well, this is one of the things I wanted opinions on. Since I'm going Pyro, pp are going to be very scarce (like, four or five...EVER). So manifesting Hammer every round isn't really possible in the 3FC. That dorje will probably last my entire career, and I can manifest, AoO (maybe), fight, fight, and remanifest. That's about as good as its going to get. I'm also thinking about investing in some powerstones of painful strike (+1d6 non-lethal added to natural weapon strikes for 1 round/level), but the low duration is a real pain in the arse. I'm also wondering what to do with my level 6 & 9 feat slots. Umm... There's no AoO for using a Djore... Although re-reading the rules, it says its usually a standard action to activate. If the power is normally a swift action, is using a Djore of that power a swift action? If it is a swift action, then there is absolutely no reason not to go with the lower ML. If its a standard action, then what you have makes perfect sense.
TelinArtho 12-20-06, 12:48 PM	Toying around with the notation problems I'll have next level with Farig: +1/+1 Dire Flail +10 melee, 1d8+7 dmg, x2 crit [+5 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] -- Full attack: +8/+8 melee, 1d8+6/1d8+4 dmg, x2 crit [+5 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh, -2 TWF] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] is the way it looks right now, but next level she gets +6 BAB, and improved twf: +1/+1 Dire Flail +11 melee, 1d8+7 dmg, x2 crit [+6 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] -- Full attack: +9/+9/+4/+4 melee, 1d8+6/1d8+4/1d8+6/1d8+4 dmg, x2 crit [+6 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh, -2 TWF] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] and soon I'll be adding shocking to one side and eventually flaming to the other (for example): +1 Shocking/+1 Flaming Dire Flail +11 melee, 1d8+7+1d6 shock or fire dmg, x2 crit [+6 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] -- Full attack: +9/+9/+4/+4 melee, 1d8+6+1d6 shock/1d8+4+1d6 fire/1d8+6+1d6 shock/1d8+4+1d6 fire dmg, x2 crit [+6 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh, -2 TWF] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] Any reasonable ways to shorten this up or clean it up?
TheMagister 12-20-06, 12:48 PM	It's a standard action. And the cognizance crystal thing isn't worth it unless I can craft 'em (and I'm not taking him to ML 3, so "no"). Really looks like the dorje is the way to go. Thanks.
TheMagister 12-20-06, 12:50 PM	You could make a code block that broke the attacks and damage down in a table-fashion. You're good at those code blocks.
Hirumajoe 12-20-06, 01:06 PM	Toying around with the notation problems I'll have next level with Farig: +1/+1 Dire Flail +10 melee, 1d8+7 dmg, x2 crit [+5 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] -- Full attack: +8/+8 melee, 1d8+6/1d8+4 dmg, x2 crit [+5 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh, -2 TWF] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] is the way it looks right now, but next level she gets +6 BAB, and improved twf: +1/+1 Dire Flail +11 melee, 1d8+7 dmg, x2 crit [+6 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] -- Full attack: +9/+9/+4/+4 melee, 1d8+6/1d8+4/1d8+6/1d8+4 dmg, x2 crit [+6 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh, -2 TWF] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] and soon I'll be adding shocking to one side and eventually flaming to the other (for example): +1 Shocking/+1 Flaming Dire Flail +11 melee, 1d8+7+1d6 shock or fire dmg, x2 crit [+6 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] -- Full attack: +9/+9/+4/+4 melee, 1d8+6+1d6 shock/1d8+4+1d6 fire/1d8+6+1d6 shock/1d8+4+1d6 fire dmg, x2 crit [+6 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh, -2 TWF] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] Any reasonable ways to shorten this up or clean it up? Remind me never, *ever* to let Farig get a Full attack off... As for shortening, I don't think so. As for clean up, you could put each in its own sblock. I.e. +1 Shocking/+1 Flaming Dire Flail +11 melee, 1d8+7+1d6 shock or fire dmg, x2 crit [+6 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] +9/+9/+4/+4 melee, 1d8+6+1d6 shock/1d8+4+1d6 fire/1d8+6+1d6 shock/1d8+4+1d6 fire dmg, x2 crit [+6 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh, -2 TWF] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] +11/+6 melee, 1d8+6+1d6 shock/1d8+6+1d6 shock, x2 crit [+6 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] Don't see a real good way to shorten them though.
McJarvis 12-20-06, 01:06 PM	Can you upgrade bag of tricks for incrimental gp costs? Howabout pearls of power?
TelinArtho 12-20-06, 01:13 PM	I guess I'm personally not all that fond of the weapon focus feat. Just wanted to post a little bit about this. Weapon focus is certainly a questionable feat, but also has great uses if you've got the right character for it. Of course, I don't think I'd ever get it for someone who doesn't have a lot of feats - so that's pretty much fighters for me (and human ones at that) - I suppose psychic warriors too in some circumstances. The benefit of weapon focus is a simple +1 to your attack with a particular weapon - so the character you choose it for should be using that weapon 95% of the time. Secondly, that +1 should make a reasonable effect on your regular attacks. If a 3rd level fighter has a +11 to hit and his opponent always has an 11 AC, then gaining +1 to his attack doesn't help him. Similarly, if his opponent's AC is always 31 or more, then its not going to have a reasonable benefit either. However, the bigger effect, in my opinion, is with characters who have "options" with their BAB. A character with Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Reckless offense (to a lesser extent) all has reasonable ways to boost one area of melee combat while reducing effectiveness elsewhere. The free +1 from weapon focus lessens the negative effect of power attack and combat expertise and it boosts reckless offense in others. Combine it with Greater Weapon Focus at higher levels, and this is similarly effective. One point isn't a lot - but it does make a difference: 6th level fighter with 18 str, mounted with a [Ma] lance with the following feats: Mounted Combat (1st), Ride by Attack (Fighter 1), Spirited Charge (Fighter 2), Weapon Focus (Lance) (3rd), Weapon Specialization (Lance) (Fighter 4), Power Attack (6th), Combat Expertise (Fighter 6) This works out to be: [Ma] Lance +13 melee, 1d8+8 dmg, x3 crit with a conditional +1 for being on higher ground. Now, if the mounted fighter is up against a relatively low AC, he uses his power attack on the charge and he's looking at this: +13-6+2 (charge)(+1) melee, (1d8+8+12)*3, x3 crit for a net of +9 or +10 for 3d8+60 damage - and this is repeatable every round that he can charge If he has to be a little more careful, he can instead pump his bab for his AC and still be striking with a +8 or +9 but maintaining an AC boosted by 4 or 5 points. That +1 to hit - if it makes the attack only +8 or +9 on a charge, and deals only 3d8+54 damage. For characters that full attack - that extra +1 can make the secondary and tertiary attacks still viable for hits - and that can be a huge damage bonus as well - especially for a character who uses two-weapon fighting. Lastly, consider the benefit on characters that have multiple attacks of the same attack - like a 4-armed sahaugin using 4 short swords and improved multi-weapon fighting.
TelinArtho 12-20-06, 01:17 PM	Remind me never, *ever* to let Farig get a Full attack off... As for shortening, I don't think so. As for clean up, you could put each in its own sblock. I.e. +1 Shocking/+1 Flaming Dire Flail +11 melee, 1d8+7+1d6 shock or fire dmg, x2 crit [+6 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] +9/+9/+4/+4 melee, 1d8+6+1d6 shock/1d8+4+1d6 fire/1d8+6+1d6 shock/1d8+4+1d6 fire dmg, x2 crit [+6 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh, -2 TWF] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] +11/+6 melee, 1d8+6+1d6 shock/1d8+6+1d6 shock, x2 crit [+6 bab, +3 str, +1 WF, +1 enh] [+2 disarm, trip weapon] Don't see a real good way to shorten them though. I try not to put my regular attacks into SBLOCKs - just under special conditionals (particularly enlarged - since damage dice change and such) - but I think you are right - it might be my best option for cleaning it up. And getting a full attack against Farig isn't so bad - the +4 on the secondary attacks is not all that high. Looking at Jar-red - just one level higher - you have to worry about 4 attacks with attack boni of +11/+9/+9/+9 - and he can do that on a charge... at level 8, he'll even be able to charge around a corner. Oh - and Jar-red moves at 70ft per move action...
McJarvis 12-20-06, 01:18 PM	The problem with weapon focus is it's effectiveness goes down as you level. At level 1 a +1 to attack effectively doubles your BAB. At level 20 it effectively...erm... well, it doesn't have alot of impact. Feats like Combat Expertise/Powerattack actually "upgrade" as you level up(through your BAB increasing). Granted, you need an extra feat to get Combat Expertise to not have a cap-> but whatever. The point is, both of those feats actually increase in power as you level up, AND they are pre-reqs for other useful combat feats. Weapon Focus, on the other hand, does not hold a candle to these kinds of choices...and I would prefer to add on say, Improved Trip/Grapple/Disarm(as appropriate), than add a weapon focus. It's true Weapon Focus "fuels" powerattack/combat expertise...but surely there are better uses for a feat than getting a paltry +1 AC or +1 to damage(+2 with THW) every round. The great irony is that it is actually more effecient on characters with less BAB, but these characters definately don't have a feat to waste on it... I think that's the classical arguement against weapon focus :-) (And weapon specialization as well)
MindWandererB 12-20-06, 01:33 PM	The problem with weapon focus is it's effectiveness goes down as you level. At level 1 a +1 to attack effectively doubles your BAB. At level 20 it effectively...erm... well, it doesn't have alot of impact.That's a mathematical fallacy (odd, coming from you...). At any level, it increases your chance to hit by a flat amount. Now, where it makes a large impact is when you normally need a very high roll to hit your opponent's AC. If you otherwise need a 19 to hit, and this reduces it to an 18, you're increasing your hit rate by 50%. If you need an 8 normally, and now you need a 7, your hit rate goes up by about 9%. Oc sourse, if you normally need above a 20, and this reduces it to still needing a 20, you got nothing. Re: sneak attack spells: This isn't in the FAQ because it's addressed in many of the supplements. Yes, it's legal, and it does the energy type of the spell. Even ability-damage or level-drain spells do negative energy HP damage on a sneak attack. However, "negative" damage (healing) doesn't count. Not even if you're sneak attacking a Nilbog (and :cookie: for you if you are enough of an oldtimer to get that reference).
Hirumajoe 12-20-06, 01:37 PM	I try not to put my regular attacks into SBLOCKs - just under special conditionals (particularly enlarged - since damage dice change and such) - but I think you are right - it might be my best option for cleaning it up. And getting a full attack against Farig isn't so bad - the +4 on the secondary attacks is not all that high. Looking at Jar-red - just one level higher - you have to worry about 4 attacks with attack boni of +11/+9/+9/+9 - and he can do that on a charge... at level 8, he'll even be able to charge around a corner. Oh - and Jar-red moves at 70ft per move action... My only response. Readied Action: Entangling Ectoplasm at 30'. And hope I don't flub the attack roll... :-) As far as weapon focus, I guess you're right, in a build that uses BAB based tricks, its handy. Unfortunately, none of my characters uses one weapon 95% of the time... They're all designed to use at least 2, if not more. I guess I like flexibility. I mean, take Valen Sky. Sure he looks like a stealth archer build, but he can come in, spring attack and sunder the bow while you're looking around with a Readied action to shoot on sight... And then hits you with an entangling ectoplasm to keep you slow while he does it.
TheMagister 12-20-06, 01:43 PM	|Primary|Secondary|Primary|Secondary| |..+9...|...+9....|..+4...|...+4....| |.1d8+6.|..1d8+4..|.1d8+6.|..1d8+4..|
waywreth 12-20-06, 01:48 PM	Can you upgrade bag of tricks for incrimental gp costs? Howabout pearls of power? Don't take my word as gospel, but I would say "no" in both cases - as you aren't upgrading but getting an entirely different item. You could make more of a case for the pearl, but I won't allow either in my tabletop games.
TelinArtho 12-20-06, 01:50 PM	My only response. Readied Action: Entangling Ectoplasm at 30'. And hope I don't flub the attack roll... :-) Good luck with that versus his unbuffed touch of 16 (14 on a charge), plus dodge feat, plus shield of faith on occasion, and later on - cat's grace... (Edit: and I suppose I have invisibility to work with as well...) Anyway - I've said my fill about weapon focus. I agree that it won't fit on all characters - heck it will only fit on a small number of them. But given the right circumstances - I think it can work - and I think it can work effectively even up to level 20.
TelinArtho 12-20-06, 01:50 PM	Can you upgrade bag of tricks for incrimental gp costs? Howabout pearls of power? No and no.
McJarvis 12-20-06, 01:51 PM	That's a mathematical fallacy (odd, coming from you...). At any level, it increases your chance to hit by a flat amount. I'm talking about the % of your attack modifier it represents.(not your actual chance to hit) At level 1(let's assume an 18 str & full BAB) your attack bonus should go from 6 to 7. The feat is about ~14% of your total to-hit. At level 20(assuming a 20 str(sub-par, I'm sure) & full BAB) Calc: 20(bab)+5(str)+~5(misc other mods)=+30. You go from 30 to 31. Now the feat only represents ~3.2 % of your total attack value. Obviously the difference between a 6 and a 7 is more pronounced than the difference of a 30 and 31. If you account for AC's that will scale to your attack bonus you may find that Weapon Focus will give a flat bonus: but in the end, I have yet to see a DM that sends every single monster with the exact same AC at a party. It is likely(in my eyes) that weapon focus itself will not account for a great deal of extra hits getting in. In the end I'd rather get the +1 to hit through some other means(more str, magical enhancement, some other ability, ring of true strike( ;) )) and get a feat that does something useful. Note the other feats I mentioned either afford you bigger & greater options as you level(powerattack/combat expertise) or they let you do things you otherwise couldn't do(avoid AoOs: Improved Grapple/Disarm/Trip, plus bonuses that decrease in relative value over time)
TelinArtho 12-20-06, 02:01 PM	Well, my point is that if you have enough feats, then you can take the weapon focus and still take the other feats to make your attacks more versatile - and as an added bonus - you boost your attack. Is a fighter with Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush at 3rd level significantly worse off than a fighter with Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush and Improved Overrun? How about at 4th level when you add WS (Greatsword) to the first and Great Cleave to the second? The warrior with great cleave would do wonders in an environment with lots of peons, but only if he can consistently take them down in one hit. The first warrior could still keep up with just regular cleave if his attacks have a greater chance of taking them down (which they would - assuming hp spread is the same). Factor in the higher to-hit bonus of the first fighter, then he's taking them down even faster (or at least, is more likely to...) On the flip side with Combat Expertise, is the fighter at a significant disadvantage with weapon focus but without improved disarm? A fighter without improved disarm can still reasonably hit +12 (+3 BAB, +1 wf, +4 str, +4 two-handed weapon) without too much trouble. Sure he won't be as reliable with his disarm attempts as a disarm specialist +15 (+3 BAB, +4 str, +4 thw, +4 imp. disarm), but the difference is pretty small and the +1 translates to his other attacks as well.
Hirumajoe 12-20-06, 02:01 PM	Good luck with that versus his unbuffed touch of 16 (14 on a charge), plus dodge feat, plus shield of faith on occasion, and later on - cat's grace... (Edit: and I suppose I have invisibility to work with as well...) Hrm... So 14 + 1 Dodge + 2 Cat's Grace + 2 Shield of Faith. = 19 touch AC. Invisibility will be tough I admit. But if there's no invisibility, and ECL 7, I have BAB +5, Dex +3, Animal Affinity +2, Offensive Precog +2, and Point Blank Shot +1. For a net +13 to hit. I'd hit on 6's or better. Or 75% chance. :-) And at ECL 8 I get Touchsight. Does suddenly becoming entangled mid charge stop the charge? I think it does, but I don't think I've ever seen an official ruling on what happens.
TelinArtho 12-20-06, 02:04 PM	Depends on the situation - but yes it will usually stop the charge (I'm taking the safe route - I'm frankly not sure but can't look up the situations right now...) And who said just +2 from shield of faith? Maybe I'll spring for the +5 potion for those "special" opponents like I did with Aquin...
McJarvis 12-20-06, 02:04 PM	Well, my point is that if you have enough feats, then you can take the weapon focus and still take the other feats to make your attacks more versatile - and as an added bonus - you boost your attack. Is a fighter with Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush at 3rd level significantly worse off than a fighter with Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush and Improved Overrun? How about at 4th level when you add WS (Greatsword) to the first and Great Cleave to the second? The warrior with great cleave would do wonders in an environment with lots of peons, but only if he can consistently take them down in one hit. The first warrior could still keep up with just regular cleave if his attacks have a greater chance of taking them down (which they would - assuming hp spread is the same). Factor in the higher to-hit bonus of the first fighter, then he's taking them down even faster (or at least, is more likely to...) On the flip side with Combat Expertise, is the fighter at a significant disadvantage with weapon focus but without improved disarm? A fighter without improved disarm can still reasonably hit +12 (+3 BAB, +1 wf, +4 str, +4 two-handed weapon) without too much trouble. Sure he won't be as reliable with his disarm attempts as a disarm specialist +15 (+3 BAB, +4 str, +4 thw, +4 imp. disarm), but the difference is pretty small and the +1 translates to his other attacks as well. Perhaps I haven't built enough fighters in Core. The feats you compare with(bull rush/improved overrun/cleave/etc) are also on my "don't touch" list. :-) At the very least, I would rather do things like dip into barbarian for raging ability before taking the Weapon Focus feat chain. If we're stuck in a straight-fighter build then maybe they'd be worthwhile...but how many people really want to play a straight fighter? ;)
Hirumajoe 12-20-06, 02:07 PM	Depends on the situation - but yes it will usually stop the charge (I'm taking the safe route - I'm frankly not sure but can't look up the situations right now...) And who said just +2 from shield of faith? Maybe I'll spring for the +5 potion for those "special" opponents like I did with Aquin... Fair enough. Obviously, what I need to do is level up Valen faster than Jar-red levels up and challenge him to a duel. To settle this man to man... err.. beast. :-)
TelinArtho 12-20-06, 02:08 PM	At the very least, I would rather do things like dip into barbarian for raging ability before taking the Weapon Focus feat chain. If we're stuck in a straight-fighter build then maybe they'd be worthwhile...but how many people really want to play a straight fighter? ;) I do... (Ambellon the Calm, Farig, Aquin were all designed as straight fighters. Even Jar-red was until I realized I could pick up a few levels of druid to be able to charge through undergrowth unhindered...)
McJarvis 12-20-06, 02:11 PM	Even Jar-red was until I realized I could pick up a few levels of druid to be able to charge through undergrowth unhindered...) Now THAT'S the kind of stuff I'm talking about B-)
MindWandererB 12-20-06, 02:11 PM	Perhaps I haven't built enough fighters in Core. The feats you compare with(bull rush/improved overrun/cleave/etc) are also on my "don't touch" list. :-) At the very least, I would rather do things like dip into barbarian for raging ability before taking the Weapon Focus feat chain. If we're stuck in a straight-fighter build then maybe they'd be worthwhile...but how many people really want to play a straight fighter? ;) You definitely haven't been playing core TT games often. No Cleave? The others, sure, but Cleave is one of my favorites. @McJarvis: The difference between a +1 to hit and a +0 is exactly the same as the difference between a +20 and a +19, or a -4 to a -5, for that matter. Think of attack bonus as being an interval scale rather than a ratio one, since a true 0 is essentially meaningless.
hogarth 12-20-06, 02:16 PM	@McJarvis: The difference between a +1 to hit and a +0 is exactly the same as the difference between a +20 and a +19, or a -4 to a -5, for that matter. Think of attack bonus as being an interval scale rather than a ratio one, since a true 0 is essentially meaningless. I think what he's saying (in his garbled kind of way) is that attack bonuses of various types accumulate faster at higher levels (whether from magic weapons, high Str or other buffs) than AC does. So at high levels, hitting with your first attack (or two) isn't usually a problem; thus a +1 bonus to attack rolls doesn't add much. I don't know if I agree with it, but that's the argument I've seen on the CO board.
McJarvis 12-20-06, 02:23 PM	You definitely haven't been playing core TT games often. No Cleave? The others, sure, but Cleave is one of my favorites. My tabletop experience has not been one where we often face hoardes of anything. The DMs I face off against either use incredibly large monsters(dragons, golems, giants, etc) or parties similar to our own. Sadly, the only experience I have with hoarde fighting is in my games where I control the hoardes. :( @McJarvis: The difference between a +1 to hit and a +0 is exactly the same as the difference between a +20 and a +19, or a -4 to a -5, for that matter. Think of attack bonus as being an interval scale rather than a ratio one, since a true 0 is essentially meaningless. In the end it's an asset. In American society the "True meaning" of 0 dollars is relative as well-> there is debt & there is surplus. $1 would mean a helluvalot more to me than it would Bill Gates. Take hide checks(something I'm more experiences with in CoCo) for instance: the difference between a +15 and a +16 is alot more(whether you get seen or not) than the difference between a +35 or a +36.(how far away I have to be when attacking to have absolute surity of not being seen) To assume every situation will be a "Well, I can only hit him if I roll a X or higher" is a false assumption...unless your DM often scales AC to your abilities, in which case you can just safely metagame the weapon focus away at your leisure. ---- As said-> I would rather take a feat that lets me do something I normally couldn't do than take a feat that applies a +1 bonus(which gets lost in the frey at high levels where bonuses are like penny-candy).
TheMagister 12-20-06, 02:25 PM	Then I'm a metagaming bastich, because I only look as far as level 10 for my CoCo characters. Maybe level 12. TM (<= is a munchkin) :D
McJarvis 12-20-06, 02:26 PM	TM (<= is a munchkin) :D And we love you for it :-)
Hirumajoe 12-20-06, 02:26 PM	I think what he's saying (in his garbled kind of way) is that attack bonuses of various types accumulate faster at higher levels (whether from magic weapons, high Str or other buffs) than AC does. So at high levels, hitting with your first attack (or two) isn't usually a problem; thus a +1 bonus to attack rolls doesn't add much. I don't know if I agree with it, but that's the argument I've seen on the CO board. Basically the thing to do is look at a typical Attack bonus for a 1st level Fighter and a 20th level Fighter, and what the typical AC's look like. For example, a 18 Str Level 1 Fighter is likely to have a total attack of +1 BAB + 4 Str + 1 Enhancment = +6. Typical AC's he'll face are between 10 and 19. (Full Plate and Dex 12). So a range of 4 to 13's are needed. Now take that Fighter at 20. Say 18+4 lvl advancements + 6 Enchanement = 28 Str (+9 mod). +20 BAB + 9 Str + 5 Enchancement = +34 to hit. Now what are Typical AC's? 10+8 Armor + 3 Dex +5 Enhancement +2 Shield + 5 Shield Enhancment + 5 Deflection + 5 Natural = 43 AC. Need 8's in that case. However, it starts helping the 2nd and 3rd attacks disproportionately. So 13's for 2nd attack, 18's for third. I'd almost say its *more* useful at the higher levels. Hmm... Although against Polymorph builds, the AC can get rediculous. 10+4 Armor + 6 Dex +5 Enhancement + 2 Shield + 5 Shield Enhancment + 10 Natural + 5 Deflection + 5 Natural Enhancement - 1 Size = 51 AC. Which the first attack needs a 17 or better to hit. At which point +1 is *really* handy.
hogarth 12-20-06, 02:33 PM	Now take that Fighter at 20. Say 18+4 lvl advancements + 6 Enchanement = 28 Str (+9 mod). +20 BAB + 9 Str + 5 Enchancement = +34 to hit. Now what are Typical AC's? 10+8 Armor + 3 Dex +5 Enhancement +2 Shield + 5 Shield Enhancment + 5 Deflection + 5 Natural = 43 AC. I would call that a "maxed-out" AC, not a "typical" AC. I think "typical" (in a tabletop game) would be more like: Balor - 35 AC Pit Fiend - 40 AC Tarrasque - 35 AC
Hirumajoe 12-20-06, 02:53 PM	I would call that a "maxed-out" AC, not a "typical" AC. I think "typical" (in a tabletop game) would be more like: Balor - 35 AC Pit Fiend - 40 AC Tarrasque - 35 AC Fair enough. I guess I was mostly considering it in terms of typical player vs player here in the arena. And I would like to point out, ECL 20 monster fights here in the CoCo would be brutal, because you'd be up against that Pit Fiend *with* equipment. 220,000 gp could buy you hmm... +5 Deflection, +5 Natural, +5 Padded armor (+6 net AC). That's only 125,000 gp. Still another 95,000 to go... So your typical Pit Fiend in the CoCo could have an AC of 56...?! Ok, so maybe that's not typical, but I still would expect at least +3 to each of those for about 50 AC (and only 45,000 gp).
Abyssal Stalker 12-20-06, 02:54 PM	You definitely haven't been playing core TT games often. No Cleave? The others, sure, but Cleave is one of my favorites. @McJarvis: The difference between a +1 to hit and a +0 is exactly the same as the difference between a +20 and a +19, or a -4 to a -5, for that matter. Think of attack bonus as being an interval scale rather than a ratio one, since a true 0 is essentially meaningless. CoCo is twisted. (I think) there's not a single fighter who would have power attack + cleave, the official hit-hard combo. Wait, there's Asran, but he has it just for Blackguard. And someone was suggesting creating a fighter with that particular combo, but I shot it down instantly when I saw it. There's no room for cleave in CoCo... Single-class fighters? That's my idea of fun. And they are actually full of options with a ton of feats. It doesn't have to be the "me strike hard"-type.
McJarvis 12-20-06, 02:55 PM	*nod at hogarth* +34 to hit vs an AC range of 35->40. Add on any misc bonuses you're getting from your party//magic items & there is a good chance you have a +39->40 attack bonus. Now we're talking about need a 1(really 2),6,11,16 die rolls respectively to hit...IF you get a full attack in(and are not being grappled/swallowed whole/anything else)
MindWandererB 12-20-06, 02:55 PM	That's what I was getting at (from Hirumajoe's comment). An increase from 32 to 33 may feel like less, psychologically, but in reality it's all the same. Money is a bad example, because it's not an "opposed check." If someone with a billion dollars succeeds or fails on a daily basis by comparing their billion dollars with people who have a billion +/- 5 dollars, then every dollar is important.
Erithmu 12-20-06, 02:55 PM	I would call that a "maxed-out" AC, not a "typical" AC. I think "typical" (in a tabletop game) would be more like: Balor - 35 AC Pit Fiend - 40 AC Tarrasque - 35 ACBalor and Pit Fiend have double standard goods for treasure entries: Expect +5 deflection rings + other gear.
Hirumajoe 12-20-06, 02:57 PM	CoCo is twisted. (I think) there's not a single fighter who would have power attack + cleave, the official hit-hard combo. Wait, there's Asran, but he has it just for Blackguard. And someone was suggesting creating a fighter with that particular combo, but I shot it down instantly when I saw it. There's no room for cleave in CoCo... Single-class fighters? That's my idea of fun. And they are actually full of options with a ton of feats. It doesn't have to be the "me strike hard"-type. Actually, there is one place for Cleave in CoCo. Versus Reginald Molehusband. I mean, 12 Donkeys is screaming "Cleave Me!" :D
McJarvis 12-20-06, 02:58 PM	That's what I was getting at. An increase from 32 to 33 may feel like less, psychologically, but in reality it's all the same. Money is a bad example, because it's not an "opposed check." If someone with a billion dollars succeeds or fails on a daily basis by comparing their billion dollars with people who have a billion +/- 5 dollars, then every dollar is important. ...but you wouldn't buy a factory just to make a net profit of $1 per day. You'd use that asset towards better use, especially if you could only afford 10->11 factories total.
McJarvis 12-20-06, 02:58 PM	Actually, there is one place for Cleave in CoCo. Versus Reginald Molehusband. I mean, 12 Donkeys is screaming "Cleave Me!" :D Somehow I get the notion no one will see those donkeys for a long time :-)
TheMagister 12-20-06, 02:59 PM	Actually, there is one place for Cleave in CoCo. Versus Reginald Molehusband. I mean, 12 Donkeys is screaming "Cleave Me!" :D That and mirror image. I hates me them mirror images. I almost had Sdentch take cleave/great cleave. Then I took blindfight and opted for the 25% miss chance when I have Sdentch close her eyes.
DSugui 12-20-06, 03:00 PM	I've been playing D&D long enough to know that AC does not increase as attack bonuses do. At higher level, it's almost sure you will hit at least once a round, but by them monsters have much more HP, damage reduction, and other things that maks it survive even if it gets hit very often. That's why damage output builds are such a headache for a TT DM.
MindWandererB 12-20-06, 03:01 PM	...but you wouldn't buy a factory just to make a net profit of $1 per day. You'd use that asset towards better use, especially if you could only afford 10->11 factories total. Very likely. Of course, buying a factory with a million dollars in order to earn $1/day is nonsensical, but I get your point. It all depends on what feats are available, and what you really want. A single-class fighter gets what, 18 feats? Even without qualifying for Weapon Specialization, using one of those for +1 to hit on most of your melee attacks isn't so bad. I've been playing D&D long enough to know that AC does not increase as attack bonuses do. At higher level, it's almost sure you will hit at least once a round, but by them monsters have much more HP, damage reduction, and other things that maks it survive even if it gets hit very often.But a +1 to hit matters even then, because it raises the chance of your second, third, or fourth attack hitting. Or it gives you another +1 which you can trade off for Power Attack, Combat Expertise, or some such.
The_First_Horseman 12-20-06, 03:10 PM	Hmm...All this talk of straight fighters is giving me a little inspiration to go and see what I can create, and then begin to tweak it here, tinker with it there, and see what I come up with...I'll be back in a while...:thinks: :plotting: :evillaugh
TheMagister 12-20-06, 03:15 PM	I'm with you, man. I've successfully resisted the urge to play clerics, wizards, and psions successfully for almost a year (maybe more!) here. Maybe it's because those're what I like playing on TT so much. I don't get an opportunity to do the fighter-types too much. Unless he or she is a pally. All the neat divine feats make for some fun paladin trix. I'm just searching for a decently effective melee build. So far it's eluded me unless I blend in magic/psionics somehow. With the addition of the PHB2 and Complete Books, straight fighters and other magic-less classes have become much more viable. I (personally) still feel that they run behind the casters, though.
Zevox 12-20-06, 03:16 PM	CoCo is twisted. (I think) there's not a single fighter who would have power attack + cleave, the official hit-hard combo. Wait, there's Asran, but he has it just for Blackguard. Actually, he has Cleave just for Blackguard (and the odd instance where he can kill a mount and cleave into its rider). Power Attack is there for Improved Sunder (I've come to love that feat since playing him :) ). Zevox
Macbrea 12-20-06, 03:17 PM	Here is a slightly silly build concept... Wood Elf Fighter 4/Monk 3/Duelist 3 Str 16 Dex 22 Con 12 Int 16 Wis 18 Cha 10 Feats: Dodge1, Mobility3,Weapon Finess (Rapier)6,Superior expertise9 Fighter Bonus Feats: Combat reflexes, Combat expertise, Power attack Monk Bonus Feats: Improved Grapple, Deflect arrows Bracer of armor +4 ,Headband of Intellect +2,Gloves of Dexterity +2,Amulet of Wisdom +2,Ring of Protection +1,Cloak of resistance +2, Scythe +2 BAB: +9 AC: 10 + 4 armor + 6 dex + 3 int + 4 wis + 1 defection = 28 Expertise AC: 37 Power attacking for 9 and Expertising for 9 Scythe +2, -6/-11 melee, 2d4+24 piercing, 20/4x Heh.... it's the can we roll 20's build?
MindWandererB 12-20-06, 03:35 PM	Power Attack is there for Improved Sunder (I've come to love that feat since playing him :) ).And to qualify for Cleave, of course. Sundering is just a bonus. I have several theoretical builds in my log o' ideas that have use Improved Sunder because I want them to have Power Attack, or Power Attack because I want them to have Improved Sunder. As a result, I have several very similar ideas, which is probably a good thing, so I don't have a billion characters in play at once. So far it's eluded me unless I blend in magic/psionics somehow. With the addition of the PHB2 and Complete Books, straight fighters and other magic-less classes have become much more viable.And then Tome of Battle came out, and blew that completely out of the water. Want to see an effective straight warrior build? Try a Warblade.
TheMagister 12-20-06, 03:38 PM	And then Tome of Battle came out, and blew that completely out of the water. Want to see an effective straight warrior build? Try a Warblade. Whatever. That's just a foo-foo'ed up Psychic Warrior class. Wow. They get "maneuvers" instead of powers. Now don't get the wrong idea: I think Warblades are awesome. I just don't think that they qualify as "straight fighter" types.
MindWandererB 12-20-06, 03:49 PM	Whatever. That's just a foo-foo'ed up Psychic Warrior class. Wow. They get "maneuvers" instead of powers. Now don't get the wrong idea: I think Warblades are awesome. I just don't think that they qualify as "straight fighter" types. The maneuvers don't really work the same way as powers. The fact they they're full BAB and qualify for fighter bonus feats makes them somewhat fighter-like; the fact that nearly all their maneuvers just involve smacking things, and can be used nearly infinitely, seals my opinion. (Now a gestalt psiwar/warblade... :drool:)
McJarvis 12-20-06, 03:57 PM	(Now a gestalt psiwar/warblade... :drool:) Knowing what you look like from the CoCo pics & trying to imagine your face doing exactly that smiley is amusing. B-)
The_First_Horseman 12-20-06, 04:01 PM	Yes, that would be a fun build indeed...hehe. Oh, one question, If I wanted my fighter to be able to use powerstones or tattoos (whichever is better), what skill(s) would I have to get?
McJarvis 12-20-06, 04:03 PM	Yes, that would be a fun build indeed...hehe. Oh, one question, If I wanted my fighter to be able to use powerstones or tattoos (whichever is better), what skill(s) would I have to get? Tats are like potions..anyone can use them. Stones take a class with the power in question on their class-list...or ranks in Use Psionic Device.
The_First_Horseman 12-20-06, 04:11 PM	Ok, how many ranks would I need in UPD for a lvl 1, ML 1 stone? And is there any drawbacks to tattoos?
McJarvis 12-20-06, 04:16 PM	Ok, how many ranks would I need in UPD for a lvl 1, ML 1 stone? And is there any drawbacks to tattoos? Tattoos are pretty expensive. They cost 50gp x manifester level x power level....and then x2 if they have a range of personal. In order to use a powerstone, you need to succeed at a DC 20+manifester level check. So for a ML 1 stone, you need to pass at a DC 21 UPD check.
TelinArtho 12-20-06, 04:17 PM	Depends, do you want 100% success? If so, I think it is a DC20+ML check so you need a modifier of +19+ML to make it 100%. Tattoos cost the same as potions, but can have personal range powers in them for double the cost (which is not an option for potions). However, tattoos are limited to the minimum ML and may not be augmented. In addition, you'll be scarcely able to find a non-personal range power to put into a tattoo - so most of the 1st level ones are going to set you back 100gp anyway.
TheMagister 12-20-06, 04:17 PM	You'd need to hit a DC 26 to address a powerstone with a 1st level power in it. You'd need to hit a DC 21 to use a powerstone with a 1st level power in it. (I'm of the opinion that the DC to address a powerstone is 10 too high. I think it's a misprint. Book says DC 25+power level. I think it's 15+power level. I mean, it should be easier to address the stone than it would be to manifest from it, right?)
The_First_Horseman 12-20-06, 04:25 PM	You'd need to hit a DC 26 to address a powerstone with a 1st level power in it. You'd need to hit a DC 21 to use a powerstone with a 1st level power in it. (I'm of the opinion that the DC to address a powerstone is 10 too high. I think it's a misprint. Book says DC 25+power level. I think it's 15+power level. I mean, it should be easier to address the stone than it would be to manifest from it, right?) I wouldn't think so. I've always thought of addressing a stone as "learning" the power in it, and manifesting it is performing what you learned. If you think about it, its usually harder to first learn something than it is to remember and perform it. And thanks for the help guys.
Macbrea 12-20-06, 04:25 PM	Is a creature with a spell like ability such as Magic Missile 1/hour allowed to use a Wand of Magic Missiles. Best I can figure it says the spell-like ability act exactly like the spell without any components. This would seem to indicate that it is on their list of known spells.
MindWandererB 12-20-06, 04:29 PM	Is a creature with a spell like ability such as Magic Missile 1/hour allowed to use a Wand of Magic Missiles. Best I can figure it says the spell-like ability act exactly like the spell without any components. This would seem to indicate that it is on their list of known spells. No. An SLA is not a spell, per se, and it's not considered to be on a class list of spells.
Macbrea 12-20-06, 04:32 PM	Isn't Outsider a class? :P
MindWandererB 12-20-06, 04:42 PM	Isn't Outsider a class? :P Not precisely, no, even if you have HD in it. And SLAs aren't spells, anyhow.
Vathelokai 12-20-06, 07:04 PM	Just a general notice: I'll be off line for the next couple days, exept for maybe once or twice at work, but since I don't work with a computer, that won't be much.
Hirumajoe 12-20-06, 08:13 PM	Can you light a Web (from the spell) on fire with a Tinder twig? It says its flamable and *any* fire can cause it to burn away a 5' cube away in a single round.
MindWandererB 12-20-06, 08:22 PM	Can you light a Web (from the spell) on fire with a Tinder twig? It says its flamable and *any* fire can cause it to burn away a 5' cube away in a single round. I don't see any reason why not.
Hirumajoe 12-21-06, 12:21 PM	A few quick questions regarding the World Event, Missions in Guilds and rewards. I remember reading somewhere, that while on the world event mission you do not actually gain experience or level up until all of it is complete. So if you would have leveled up, perhaps twice, since in theory you could win 6 equal ECL fights, do you still only receive gold with your original level modifier? Such a situation could mean a different of more than 1,500 gp, depending on your experience points going in. Which seems a fairly significant disadvantage for simple rounding issues. Since for an ECL 6-8 character, 1,500 is about 5-10% of their total wealth. Or am I understanding this wrong?
NiQil 12-21-06, 12:42 PM	If a small character has a Str of 6, what would that be on the weight table...the equivalent to 4 or 5 (since small creatures have 3/4 the carrying capacity of medium creatures)?
UserNamer 12-21-06, 12:45 PM	Quick question: Half-dragons give flight speed to large creatures, can a half-giant get this? I think he should, since he gets all positive things of large creatures, but not the negatives.
Macbrea 12-21-06, 12:47 PM	No. it works like: Medium Str 6 6 20 lb. or less 21-40 lb. 41-60 lb Small Str 6 6 15 lb. or less 16-30 lb. 31-45 lb
NiQil 12-21-06, 12:55 PM	No. it works like: Medium Str 6 6 20 lb. or less 21-40 lb. 41-60 lb Small Str 6 6 15 lb. or less 16-30 lb. 31-45 lb Danke...that's what I wondered.
McJarvis 12-21-06, 12:56 PM	Quick question: Half-dragons give flight speed to large creatures, can a half-giant get this? I think he should, since he gets all positive things of large creatures, but not the negatives. Not quite. He gets to be treated as large whenever there is a check related to size, so long as being large for that check is beneficial Then they are treated as large for special attacks based on size that might affect them(swallow whole, etc) & they can use larger weapons without penalty. This is not the same as "they get everything large creatures get that is good". This is why Half-giant monks, for instance, don't use the "large creature table" for their fist damage.
NiQil 12-21-06, 12:57 PM	Quick question: Half-dragons give flight speed to large creatures, can a half-giant get this? I think he should, since he gets all positive things of large creatures, but not the negatives. Your answer is here: Q: Do medium races with the Powerful Build ability, such as the half-giant, receive wings when adding the half-dragon template? A: No. The Powerful Build ability does not increase a creatures size, so the base race must already be large to receive the wings.
McJarvis 12-21-06, 12:58 PM	Ah, good 'ol NiQil. No one else in gladius seems to know where that Court Decision page is... ;) (I'm assuming since no one else ever quotes it...hehe)
UserNamer 12-21-06, 01:26 PM	Thank you for your clear answer.
MindWandererB 12-21-06, 01:41 PM	A few quick questions regarding the World Event, Missions in Guilds and rewards. I remember reading somewhere, that while on the world event mission you do not actually gain experience or level up until all of it is complete. So if you would have leveled up, perhaps twice, since in theory you could win 6 equal ECL fights, do you still only receive gold with your original level modifier? Such a situation could mean a different of more than 1,500 gp, depending on your experience points going in. Which seems a fairly significant disadvantage for simple rounding issues. Since for an ECL 6-8 character, 1,500 is about 5-10% of their total wealth. Or am I understanding this wrong?If you would have levelled up, you still receive all rewards at the rate appropriate for your current (lower) level. However, I do recognise your concern. What I wanted to avoid was a situation where (if ECL 10 didn't happen to be frozen), we had 2 ECL 6 characters going up against an ECL 13 character in the end. That would just be ludicrous, and entirely possible if the ECL 6 characters weren't intercepted and didn't level, but an ECL 11 character was intercepted 3 times by ECL 12 opponents and levelled twice. Perhaps we should modify the rules so that if you would ordinarily be a higher level, your XP:GP ratio is calculated as if you were that higher level? Opinions?
spasheridan 12-21-06, 02:26 PM	Can a Psion target a tower shield with a power, say energy ray - if his opponent is using it for total cover?
McJarvis 12-21-06, 02:28 PM	Can a Psion target a tower shield with a power, say energy ray - if his opponent is using it for total cover? yes
spasheridan 12-21-06, 02:33 PM	so if I hit a tower shield with a sonic energy ray it would do straight damage, and when I did 20 damage to the tower shield it would be destroyed? what is the AC of a tower shield? edit - could an archer shoot a tower shield and destroy it with enough arrows?
MindWandererB 12-21-06, 02:36 PM	so if I hit a tower shield with a sonic energy ray it would do straight damage, and when I did 20 damage to the tower shield it would be destroyed? what is the AC of a tower shield? edit - could an archer shoot a tower shield and destroy it with enough arrows? Well, you can't sunder an object with piercing weapons at all, so no. And I'm not sure about using a spell for a ranged sunder attack. I think someone here knows this rule better than I.
McJarvis 12-21-06, 02:38 PM	Well, you can't sunder an object with piercing weapons at all, so no. And I'm not sure about using a spell for a ranged sunder attack. I think someone here knows this rule better than I. You may not destroy any attended object with a spell or power. Thus the energy ray in question would go through the tower shield & damage to person weilding the tower shield.
spasheridan 12-21-06, 02:40 PM	now - sunder is one thing. Attacking a wall is another. I should be able to shoot a door and destroy it with arrows if it has a low hardness, right? When you're using a tower shield for full cover it's more wall-like than weapon like, right? This is possiblely stretching things a bit though
Hirumajoe 12-21-06, 02:42 PM	so if I hit a tower shield with a sonic energy ray it would do straight damage, and when I did 20 damage to the tower shield it would be destroyed? what is the AC of a tower shield? edit - could an archer shoot a tower shield and destroy it with enough arrows? The obvious answer is to invest in a Adamantine Greatsword or other 2 handed weapon, invest in the Sunder feat (or the Sundering Weapon property) and go to town in melee. Then run away. :D But with just the core rules, no you can't sunder with a ranged weapon at all. There's a ranged sunder feat in the Complete Warriors book, or somewhere like that. Edit: Problem is its still not "unattended" when you're using it for cover.
Macbrea 12-21-06, 02:42 PM	You are allowed to target objects not held by characters with magic rays. The question comes in wether the Tower shield was set for full cover or is being carried for +4 AC. If it is being carried for +4 AC you cannot target the shield. If it was set, it comes down to an elder ruling on wether a set tower shield is an object within the arena. If it is rules an object within the arena it's AC = 10 - 5 (dex) - 2 for immoble = 3 with +5 to hit if ranged combatant takes full round action. This ends up an elder ruling because they determined that tower shields must be set in order to gain full cover, instead of just using rules as written. Rules as written just says, if you make no attacks with a tower shield you have full cover. This would seem to indicate that you are always carrying it and not setting it on the ground to protect you.
McJarvis 12-21-06, 02:55 PM	But with just the core rules, no you can't sunder with a ranged weapon at all. There's a ranged sunder feat in the Complete Warriors book, or somewhere like that. DMG pg 24 bottom of the page offers rules for sundering objects(well, "cover") with ranged attacks-> though we don't use those rules here. It's a shame we don't: we'd probably get less people using their horses for cover & tower shields would be sunderable otherwise. Edit: Problem is its still not "unattended" when you're using it for cover. Bingo. Current ruling is that if an object is attended it can not be targeted by spells or effects for damaging purposes. Thus if you can't hit the shield itself, you must hit the person behind it. Rays are considered targeted in the CoCo(to my knowledge), so they can not be blocked by tower shield.
NiQil 12-21-06, 02:57 PM	Question concerning crafting bolts... What would the cost be to craft 50 cold iron and 50 alchemical silver bolts? I have that calculated at 10 gp market/5 gp craft for the cold iron and 105 gp market/52.5 gp craft for the silver. Is that accurate?
Macbrea 12-21-06, 03:05 PM	Rays are considered targeted in the CoCo(to my knowledge), so they can not be blocked by tower shield. Rays are not considered targeted in CoCo or elsewhere. They are fired into the square containing the tower shield and character. Ray Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don’t have to see the creature you’re trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature you’re aiming at. If a ray spell has a duration, it’s the duration of the effect that the ray causes, not the length of time the ray itself persists. If a ray spell deals damage, you can score a critical hit just as if it were a weapon. A ray spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Which results in 3.5 of you missiing. You should hit the cover but the rules do not allow for that. Now, the question was may you target the cover. The cover should be able to be targeted. In the case of a horse you can target it. In the case of a tower shield it should be an inanimate object.
Hirumajoe 12-21-06, 03:06 PM	Question concerning crafting bolts... What would the cost be to craft 50 cold iron and 50 alchemical silver bolts? I have that calculated at 100 gp market/50 gp craft for the cold iron and 300 gp market/150 gp craft for the silver. Is that accurate? Umm... 50 Cold Iron Bolts: 1gp per 10 bolts base. x2 cost for Cold Iron x5 for 5 sets of 10 = 10 gp market/5 gp crafted cold iron bolts. 50 Silver Bolts: 1gp per 10 bolts base +20gp per 10 (2gp per bolt) x5 for 5 sets of 10 = 105 gp Market/52.5 gp crafted Edit: And while I'm at it 50 Adamantine Bolts: (Great for killing those pesky Psicrystals!) 1gp per 10 bolt +600gp per 10 (60gp per bolt) x5 for 5 sets of 10 = 3005 gp Market/1502.5 gp crafted 50 Masterwork Mundane Crystal Bolts: (Great for avoiding Warp Wood effects!) 1gp per 10 bolt x5 for 5 sets of 10 +300 gp for Masterwork =305 gp Market/152.5 gp crafted
McJarvis 12-21-06, 03:09 PM	Rays are not considered targeted in CoCo or elsewhere. They are fired into the square containing the tower shield and character. Which results in 3.5 of you missiing. You should hit the cover but the rules do not allow for that. Now, the question was may you target the cover. The cover should be able to be targeted. In the case of a horse you can target it. In the case of a tower shield it should be an inanimate object. Not my reasoning: but I believe the justification around here has been "you aim a ray & have a target, thus it is a targeted spell/effect" Sidenote/ramble: The problem(IMO) is that the rules don't say you can't target attended objects with spells/effects, just most spells/effects don't include objects in the targetability. This led to problems with Energy Missile, so bam-> CoCo doesn't allow spells/effects to ever target attended objects unless it is explicitly stated that you can.
NiQil 12-21-06, 03:09 PM	Umm... 1gp per 10 bolts base. x2 cost for Cold Iron x5 for 5 sets of 10 = 10 gp market/5 gp crafted cold iron bolts. 1gp per 10 bolts base +20gp per 10 (2gp per bolt) x5 for 5 sets of 10 = 105 gp Market/52.5 gp crafted LOL thanks...I realized my mistake after the fact...at least our numbers agree.
Macbrea 12-21-06, 03:11 PM	No if you read what I posted. You don't need to be able to see your target to hit it with a ray unlike a targetted spell.
McJarvis 12-21-06, 03:12 PM	No if you read what I posted. You don't need to be able to see your target to hit it with a ray unlike a targetted spell. Tough luck, I suppose. Like I've said-> I'm not really happy with the way cover/ranged spell attack relations work in CoCo.
spasheridan 12-21-06, 03:22 PM	SO - if a person had a tower shield and was using it for full cover, I could: A) shoot them with an energy ray. They would have a normal touch AC, no cover bonus, because a shield doesn't give you a bonus to your touch AC. B) shoot them with an energy ray. They would get a cover bonus to their Touch AC c) shoot them with an energy ray. They might get a cover bonus to their Touch AC, but I would auto-miss because of the 100% miss chance of total cover d) Shoot their tower shield with the energy ray, AC 3.
Macbrea 12-21-06, 03:24 PM	I checked the FAQ to see if anything has been added since the original discussion of this was made about a year ago. D&D FAQ v.3.5 48 Update Version: 11/22/06 Total cover prevents any attack against you. You can use a tower shield to get total cover if you give up all your attacks. What does “give up all your attacks” mean? Can you move while getting total cover from the shield? Can you cast a spell? Also, do you get total cover from all directions or from just one side of your square? Will the total cover from a tower shield negate spell effects? Will it negate attacks of opportunity from movement or from other actions such as spellcasting? Will it prevent charge attacks against you? What about bull rush attacks? Can it prevent grapple attacks or snatch attacks? Will it stop fear effects, gaze attacks, or clouds of poison gas? Will it defeat traps? To claim total cover from a tower shield, you must use a standard action. The tower shield rules don’t say that, but that’s what they mean. Since you can take only one standard action each round, you cannot also attack, cast a spell, activate a magic item (except for some use-activated items), use a special ability, use total defense, or start or complete a full-round action during the same round you claim total cover from the shield. You can, however, take a move action before or after you claim cover from the shield. Like other kinds of cover, the shield has to have a location relative to you on the battlefield. When you use the shield for cover, choose one edge of your space (not a corner). You have total cover against any attack’s line of effect that passes through that side of your space. If an attack’s line of effect goes through the corner of the side of your space that the shield blocks, you get cover from the shield (+4 AC, +2 on Reflex saves) instead of total cover. If an attack’s line of effect passes through a side of your space that the shield does not block, you get no cover from the shield at all. To determine where the line of effect enters your space, draw a line from the attacker’s center to your center. Or, in the case of a magical effect, from the effect’s point of origin and your center. Once you claim cover from the shield, the shield keeps blocking the side of your space that you chose until the beginning of your next turn, when you can again decide whether you’ll use the shield for cover. Once you choose the side of your space that the shield blocks, you cannot change it until your next turn. You continue to threaten the area around you while you use the shield for cover; however, it provides your opponents with the same benefits you get. You cannot make attacks through the side of your space that the shield blocks, and should you attack through the corners of that space, your foe gets cover against your attack. Since cover of any kind prevents attacks of opportunity (see page 151 in the Player’s Handbook), the shield keeps you from making attacks of opportunity in a pretty wide swath. Total cover or cover from a tower shield has the following effects in different situations: • Magical Attacks: A tower shield’s effects on magical attacks depend on the kind of magical attack. Any attack aimed at your equipment is aimed at you. If a magical attack has you as a specific target (that is it does not merely affect the area that contains you but is aimed right at you), the shield has no effect. All rays fall into this category, as does any spell that has a Target entry in its header and any spell that has an Effect entry and affects creatures (provided, of course, that the attacker can and does choose the shield user as a target). Magical attacks that fill areas (bursts, cones, cylinders, lines, emanations, and spreads) are subject to all the rules for cover on page 151 of the Player’s Handbook. Such attacks are completely blocked if line of effect between you and the attack’s point of origin passes through the side of your space the shield blocks. You get cover (+4 AC, +2 on Reflex saves) if the magical attack’s line of effect passes through the corner of the blocked side. Spread effects reach around the shield if they normally would extend into your space, but you still get a Reflex save bonus for cover when they do. A gaze attack is blocked if the shield would give you total cover against attacks from the creature with the gaze attack. If the shield gives you cover only, you’re still subject to the gaze attack (although you could avert or close your eyes to avoid the attack). • Attacks of Opportunity: As noted earlier, cover or total cover prevents attacks of opportunity. So you could, for example, hunker down behind a tower shield and pick up a weapon or rummage around in a backpack and avoid attacks of opportunity against you. If you’re moving while using the shield for cover, things get a little more complicated. You must determine whether the shield gives you cover (or total cover) at the point during your movement when you’d normally provoke an attack of opportunity. Remember that attacks of opportunity are usually resolved before the actions that provoke them. In many cases, the shield won’t be positioned correctly to protect you during your whole move. • Charging and Bull Rushing: Opponents can charge you while you claim cover from the shield. An opponent moves as normal when charging you, moving to the closest square from which a melee attack normally would be possible. If the shield gives you total cover from the attack, the attack automatically fails. Foes can bull rush you normally, moving right into your space in spite of the shield. You normally get an attack of opportunity against someone entering your space, but not if the shield gives your foe cover or total cover. • Grapple and Snatch Attacks: Total cover from a tower shield blocks such attacks (the foe just can’t get hold of you). The foe could, however grab the shield. Conduct such attacks just like any other grapple or snatch attack. Your foe can’t damage you unless he pins you first. You can escape the foe’s hold simply by dropping the shield (a standard action since it’s strapped to your arm), so long as the foe has not pinned you. • Traps: Cover or total cover from a tower shield is just as effective against a trap as it is against any other attack.
UserNamer 12-21-06, 03:28 PM	What's the cost of augmented powerstone? How can calculate this?
MindWandererB 12-21-06, 03:28 PM	C is an option. The alternative would be E: Shoot their tower shield with the energy ray, AC 10 + wielder's Dex + Size mod (I would consider a tower shield to be the same size as the wielder). It's definitely an attended object. But since you can't attack an attended object with a ranged attack, it should be C. Edit: Although I disagree with the FAQ, it says that rays bypass the shield. Oh, well. @Usernamer: It's 25 * caster level * spell level, where spell level is increased by 1 for every 2 points of augmentation.
McJarvis 12-21-06, 03:30 PM	SO - if a person had a tower shield and was using it for full cover, I could: A) shoot them with an energy ray. They would have a normal touch AC, no cover bonus, because a shield doesn't give you a bonus to your touch AC. B) shoot them with an energy ray. They would get a cover bonus to their Touch AC c) shoot them with an energy ray. They might get a cover bonus to their Touch AC, but I would auto-miss because of the 100% miss chance of total cover d) Shoot their tower shield with the energy ray, AC 3. there ya go
spasheridan 12-21-06, 03:40 PM	@Macbrae - THanks! That helps me a bunch
Milov 12-21-06, 03:45 PM	NOTE: The following message has absolutely nothing to do with anything you've been talking about. Trust me on that one. Zum Geburstag to me! Sorry to all those who can actually speak German... I'm stlil learning. Only German 1, beginner level basically, in high school. For those who dun speak german, It's muh Birthday! Yay me! 16 today :D
spasheridan 12-21-06, 03:46 PM	If a psion can use 14 PP a fight, and used 6 PP in the 1st fight of their 3fc, can that psion use 14 or 22 PP in their 2nd fight of the 3fc?
TelinArtho 12-21-06, 03:47 PM	22pp.
McJarvis 12-21-06, 03:51 PM	NOTE: The following message has absolutely nothing to do with anything you've been talking about. Trust me on that one. Zum Geburstag to me! Sorry to all those who can actually speak German... I'm stlil learning. Only German 1, beginner level basically, in high school. For those who dun speak german, It's muh Birthday! Yay me! 16 today :D Happy birthday ya 'youngin :-) /me stands on his "too old" pedestal in shame
TheMagister 12-21-06, 03:57 PM	Something funny about the shrinking thing: If a certain amount of force is used to move an object (in this case a set of large bolas) that weighs a given amount (in this case 16 lbs/bolas), and then that given object has its mass suddenly cut by a factor of 8 (from large => medium), the amount of force has not changed, but the mass has. Now, I'm not too swoof on my physics, but doesn't an equal amount of force exerted on two objects (one more massive and one less massive) equal out into more speed for the less massive object? I'd be all for some extra range in that equation. :D (I'm not actually trying for anything here...I just found this passing through my head and grabbed it, examined it, and thought it was funny.) TM
TelinArtho 12-21-06, 04:05 PM	Assuming that the magical process doesn't absorb any of the force (yeah - right...), then yes, the flying object would increase in speed by a factor equal to the inverse of the mass reduction. Now, although a character's mass increases by a factor of 8, I would very much argue that the equipment on said character only increases by a factor of 2 (this because otherwise, enlarging someone might actually bring them to higher encumbrance values...). Of course resistance from air would play a factor here as well - so the exact amount of extra speed is not quite as much as 2x the original. And lets not forget that first thing I said... Don't touch physics when magic is involved...
MindWandererB 12-21-06, 04:39 PM	New FAQ up. There is at least one item I've ben dying to see (and I think the Sage quoted my own question verbatim): Deflect Arrows requires that you be “aware” of the attack. What qualifies as “aware?” Hearing the attack? Hearing and pinpointing the attack? (And what’s the DC to Listen for a twanging bowstring?) Seeing the arrow just as it leaves an invisible attacker’s possession or just as it exits an area of total darkness? In general, any time you see the phrase “aware of the attack” it simply means you must not be flat-footed against the attack. Hearing an invisible bowstring isn’t enough if you can’t see the attacker. In the case of Deflect Arrows, the phrase is redundant (since it’s followed by “and not flat-footed”).
TheMagister 12-21-06, 05:08 PM	New FAQ up. There is at least one item I've ben dying to see (and I think the Sage quoted my own question verbatim): Whoohoo! One for the good guys! :w00t:
spasheridan 12-21-06, 05:43 PM	if I have a potion of Legion's character sheet, can I give it to my thrall before the fight starts? What's the fastest way to get it into my thralls hands - can LEgion give (std action)it to here and then she can drink it on the same action? Can I start with it on the ground and she has to pick it up (std) then drink (next round std)?
Hirumajoe 12-21-06, 08:13 PM	@Spasheridan: I don't see why one of the objects your Thrall starts with (since everyone is allowed 2 items) can't be the potion. And even if Legion started with potion in his hand, it should be no more than a standard action to hand it to your Thrall. @All: I *need* help. After having confused Cat by using Valen's name instead of Kai's name in the CEF thread (which I've now fixed), I need a way to keep my two characters seperate in my mind. :confused: Since so far I'm failing miserably at it...
NiQil 12-21-06, 09:46 PM	Quick question, because I can't seem to find it... Am I correct in remembering that melee touch attacks such as the power Dissipating Touch or the spell Shocking Grasp can be made as a part of a normal melee attack with a gauntlet or spiked gauntlet and go against the target's normal AC (instead of touch) to deal damage with both the gauntlet and the spell/power?
MindWandererB 12-21-06, 10:07 PM	Quick question, because I can't seem to find it... Am I correct in remembering that melee touch attacks such as the power Dissipating Touch or the spell Shocking Grasp can be made as a part of a normal melee attack with a gauntlet or spiked gauntlet and go against the target's normal AC (instead of touch) to deal damage with both the gauntlet and the spell/power?Close. Touch spells can be delivered with unarmed strikes, which a gauntlet (but not a spiked gauntlet) counts as. However, unlike a normal touch attack, if you miss, the spell is discharged to no effect. I don't see why one of the objects your Thrall starts with (since everyone is allowed 2 items) can't be the potion. And even if Legion started with potion in his hand, it should be no more than a standard action to hand it to your Thrall.The reason why is that it's simply not allowed. Nor can you start with items already on the floor. Best way to go is to start with it in hand and hand it off first chance--which is what I'll do unless you tell me otherwise.
McJarvis 12-22-06, 12:33 AM	I *need* help. After having confused Cat by using Valen's name instead of Kai's name in the CEF thread (which I've now fixed), I need a way to keep my two characters seperate in my mind. :confused: Since so far I'm failing miserably at it... Just remember that Valen is a stalker & Kai is not. :)
Hirumajoe 12-22-06, 07:57 AM	If you would have levelled up, you still receive all rewards at the rate appropriate for your current (lower) level. However, I do recognise your concern. What I wanted to avoid was a situation where (if ECL 10 didn't happen to be frozen), we had 2 ECL 6 characters going up against an ECL 13 character in the end. That would just be ludicrous, and entirely possible if the ECL 6 characters weren't intercepted and didn't level, but an ECL 11 character was intercepted 3 times by ECL 12 opponents and levelled twice. Perhaps we should modify the rules so that if you would ordinarily be a higher level, your XP:GP ratio is calculated as if you were that higher level? Opinions? Basically, each fight you virtually level up, but your stats ECL stay exactly the same? Just your XP:GP ratio changes the fight after you *would* have leveled up (although xp is still based on the level of the challenge relative to your own). Yeah, I think that would work fine. And its not that much harder I should think (only one extra multiplacation). In other news, if you were an ECL 6 character, planning to go into a series of ECL 10 fights with a buddy, who happens to have Deeper Darkness as a prebuff, you can't you buy anything for the duration of these 5 fights, and had up to 3,750 gp burning a hole in your pocket, what would *you* buy? 1) An additional +1 AC to your mithril armor raising your unbuffed AC to 20 (And your Buffed AC to 27). 3,000 gp 2) An additinal +1 to all Saves on your cloak raising your saves from +7/+8/+8 to +8/+9/+9 (unbuffed). 3,000 gp 3) A +5 to hide bonus, raising your base hide from 11 to 16 unbuffed (and from 23 to 28 buffed). 3,750 gp 4) Save the money for that Suppression Greatsword (16,000 gp needed). 5) Something else? ???? gp I currently leaning towards 3, but I can see arguements for the others also.
MitzaVolchenko 12-22-06, 12:23 PM	New FAQ up. There is at least one item I've ben dying to see (and I think the Sage quoted my own question verbatim): Deflect Arrows requires that you be “aware” of the attack. What qualifies as “aware?” Hearing the attack? Hearing and pinpointing the attack? (And what’s the DC to Listen for a twanging bowstring?) Seeing the arrow just as it leaves an invisible attacker’s possession or just as it exits an area of total darkness? In general, any time you see the phrase “aware of the attack” it simply means you must not be flat-footed against the attack. Hearing an invisible bowstring isn’t enough if you can’t see the attacker. In the case of Deflect Arrows, the phrase is redundant (since it’s followed by “and not flat-footed”). Good to see that the FAQ is out there to help again! Remind me to retire again as soon as the World Event is over.
UserNamer 12-22-06, 03:21 PM	Could someone take a look at my new character, Linus Caldwell (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10982781&postcount=1032) , so that he won't get to prison inmediatly :p
Sjiggie 12-22-06, 06:23 PM	Could someone take a look at my new character, Linus Caldwell (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10982781&postcount=1032) , so that he won't get to prison inmediatly :p You can't use your CL3 wand of magic missle since your "wizard level" is only 1. Half of your cleric levels count towards your effective wizard casting level. Since you are a lvl 3 cleric you only have the capability of using a CL 1 wand/scroll. Magic Domain Granted Power Use scrolls, wands, and other devices with spell completion or spell trigger activation as a wizard of one-half your cleric level (at least 1st level). For the purpose of using a scroll or other magic device, if you are also a wizard, actual wizard levels and these effective wizard levels stack.
Zevox 12-22-06, 06:26 PM	You can't use your CL3 wand of magic missle since your "wizard level" is only 1. Half of your cleric levels count towards your effective wizard casting level. Since you are a lvl 3 cleric you only have the capability of using a CL 1 wand/scroll. Actually, he can use a wizard wand at any CL. Wands only require that you have the spell on your class spell list to be used - you don't even need to be able to cast spells yet to use them (e.g. a Paladin or Ranger without the ability to cast yet could still use a wand of cure light wounds). Zevox
Erithmu 12-22-06, 06:27 PM	With wands you only need the spell on your list of spells. So he can use a MM CL 9 wand if he wanted to dish out the credits. On the other hand all your arcane scrolls have to get past full plate Arcane Spell Failure. Something you might want to factor in to your tactics. If you have ASF while casting you lose the scroll.
Hirumajoe 12-22-06, 06:27 PM	You can't use your CL3 wand of magic missle since your "wizard level" is only 1. Half of your cleric levels count towards your effective wizard casting level. Since you are a lvl 3 cleric you only have the capability of using a CL 1 wand/scroll. Umm... Actually, wands just require that you have them on your spell list. Since he counts as a 1st level wizard, all wizard spells are on his spell list, and thus he can use any wizard wand, including a CL 3 magic missile wand, or a CL 20 magic missile wand. Its the same reason a 1st level Ranger can use a cure light wounds wand, even though he can't cast it. Edit: Unless there's a specific ruling regarding the Magic domain I'm not aware of. Edit 2: Wow... Beaten to the punch not by 1 person, but 2!
The_First_Horseman 12-22-06, 07:07 PM	I have noticed that, while there are IC threads for gladiators in guilds, there really aren't any IC threads for guildless gladiators. Would it be possible to set up such a thread?
MindWandererB 12-22-06, 07:18 PM	I have noticed that, while there are IC threads for gladiators in guilds, there really aren't any IC threads for guildless gladiators. Would it be possible to set up such a thread? Folks tried before, and it didn't go anywhere. I don't know if there's any real interest.
The_First_Horseman 12-22-06, 07:47 PM	Hmm...I see. Would I be allowed to post in character in a guild's thread even if my character isn't in the guild?
Vathelokai 12-22-06, 08:02 PM	Hmm...I see. Would I be allowed to post in character in a guild's thread even if my character isn't in the guild? You can walk into any guild and RP; you don't have to join (though we might ask if you want to :D ) There is also roleplay thread that has been going since the begining. Dosn't get used much. I bumped it so that everyone can see it on the first page.
The_First_Horseman 12-22-06, 08:18 PM	Ok, thanks.
Macbrea 12-22-06, 08:25 PM	Lord Frost glares at all the people yammery in his haven! 'Or yah could just take in the tavern and ignore all those wizardly types wandering about pulling strings.'
spasheridan 12-23-06, 02:33 AM	iF you have no ranks in psi-craft or spellcraft, can you tell if your opponent is doing a full-round action casting a spell?
Hirumajoe 12-23-06, 10:52 AM	Lord Frost glares at all the people yammery in his haven! 'Or yah could just take in the tavern and ignore all those wizardly types wandering about pulling strings.' Valen Sky looks up from a tome entitled Illithid Hunting 101: An Introductory Course and says, "Oh, so thats what all the people in funny clothes around here are...".
MitzaVolchenko 12-23-06, 11:55 AM	Lord Frost glares at all the people yammery in his haven! 'Or yah could just take in the tavern and ignore all those wizardly types wandering about pulling strings.' "I ignore both wizardy types and noxious, too big for their britches, miniature lizards," Zwei comments dryly before returning to her pretzel-like meditation pose.
Vathelokai 12-23-06, 12:03 PM	"Hey now, I resent that. I don't even wear britches, and what is that supposed to mean anyway? That he's outgrowing his armor? Of course he is, he's a dragon. Speaking of which, why do you wear that stuff anyway, Frost?" The precocious brass dragon only stops talking when she is suddenly distracted by flock of small human children walking by outside. Unable to resist, she flies to the middle of them and rolls over with her belly up.
nightbanegod 12-23-06, 12:34 PM	Happy birthday ya 'youngin :-) /me stands on his "too old" pedestal in shame well i feel old if that is any consolation. i shall be 23 shortly and have had enough "life experience" for the both of us. and on that note.. i dont think i ever got my 1° from back in march of '06 ... just a side note that happens to be pertinent at this moment as i am working on my wizard and earning credits to do so... domain wizard here we come!!!
nightbanegod 12-23-06, 12:35 PM	"Hey now, I resent that. I don't even wear britches, and what is that supposed to mean anyway? That he's outgrowing his armor? Of course he is, he's a dragon. Speaking of which, why do you wear that stuff anyway, Frost?" The precocious brass dragon only stops talking when she is suddenly distracted by flock of small human children walking by outside. Unable to resist, she flies to the middle of them and rolls over with her belly up. wow... i have known dogs who are ALMOST as much of a suckup as that... only drawback, they dont fly!! :D
Macbrea 12-23-06, 12:42 PM	'Armor has uses, especially around here!', Frost eyes the children and wonders how they would go with a little curry sauce and butter. He begins to wander over to play with the children.
nightbanegod 12-23-06, 01:23 PM	Quick question: Half-dragons give flight speed to large creatures, can a half-giant get this? I think he should, since he gets all positive things of large creatures, but not the negatives. this was a big issue some time ago and NO half giants do not get this as they are flat-out medium creatures. the half dragon template specifies that they have to be LARGE creatures in order to get wings. the powerful build special feature does not make them large creatures... it simply grants a size increase when comparing certain abilities and weapon sizes.
MitzaVolchenko 12-23-06, 01:26 PM	Hearing the jangle of the little dragon's armor, Zwei turns her head to watch him and smiles baring her sharp teeth in an uncharacteristic show of real humor. "One wonders if there will now be a rematch. The last one went not so well for the little thief. What was it Frost called her? Hoardjumper?"
MitzaVolchenko 12-24-06, 08:35 AM	Happy Holidays!!!
The_First_Horseman 12-25-06, 04:44 AM	Would the armor bonuses from breastplate armor and a set of bracers of armor stack? If not, could somone one tell me where it says this? Thanks. Edit: Nevermind.
rowsdower44 12-25-06, 09:36 AM	:gift: Merry Christmas To All! :gift:
Zevox 12-25-06, 09:53 AM	:gift: Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone :D . Zevox
Hirumajoe 12-25-06, 04:58 PM	Happy Holidays!
nightbanegod 12-25-06, 11:15 PM	MERRY :censored: CHRISTMAS!!! now im going to go chill with a 40 and some ren and stimpy DvDs i just got as a present!!! anyone else get something they totally didnt expect?
The_First_Horseman 12-25-06, 11:22 PM	Lol, no, but I did get exactly what I wanted, all three Blue collar Comedy Tour DVD's. Merry Christmas everybody.
Milov 12-26-06, 02:23 PM	Short notice, I'm aware, but is anyone willing to run a Miniquest for Ihdald this upcoming activation cycle? His second attempt to join War, plot already set, mostly...
UserNamer 12-26-06, 03:03 PM	Can a cleric in CoCo prepare his spells while using a candle of invocation?
MindWandererB 12-26-06, 03:13 PM	Can a cleric in CoCo prepare his spells while using a candle of invocation? I see no reason why not. It's not much bang for your buck, though, unless the time roll is less than 4 hours, and even then it's only one fight. (Weirdness with the 1/3 rule, though....)
TelinArtho 12-26-06, 03:29 PM	Actually, you'd still get the benefits of the +2 CL for the entire 3FC, but yes - it is not much when you consider the cost for the 1 time use. And of course - the gate ability is not available in the CoCo. That said - an Incense of Meditation is a much better resource in my opinion...
UserNamer 12-26-06, 04:14 PM	An ability that is usable 1/week, is useble 1/3FC, right?
TelinArtho 12-26-06, 04:16 PM	correct.
UserNamer 12-26-06, 04:18 PM	At each item in the Wondrous Items section I see a CL, is this the CL that is required to craft the item?
Zevox 12-26-06, 04:20 PM	At each item in the Wondrous Items section I see a CL, is this the CL that is required to craft the item? No - its just the CL of the item itself when you need to determine things like dispel checks. Zevox
TelinArtho 12-26-06, 04:21 PM	That's covered in the Rules thread, but no it is not required in the CoCo - it is the default CL if the item is bought or crafted as standard. However, if the item specifies a CL requirement (such as the Ioun stones), then this is a requirement. Note the difference between most items and the Ioun Stone.
Macbrea 12-26-06, 04:22 PM	No, there is no CL requirement for creating items. The only level requirement for items is when an item says 'Creater must be 12th level' such as in the following case: Ioun Stones Moderate varied; CL 12th; Craft Wondrous Item, creator must be 12th level. Where other items are written like: Instant Fortress Strong conjuration; CL 13th; Craft Wondrous Item, mage’s magnificent mansion; Price 55,000 gp Instant fortress only requires you be able to cast Mage's magnificent mansion. Not be Caster level 13th.
UserNamer 12-26-06, 04:23 PM	alright, thanks for the quick answers!
TheMagister 12-26-06, 04:44 PM	Since I have a vested interest in the outcome, I don't want to appear biased. Could someone (MWB? Telin?) take a look at the Angels in the Feasthall operation miniquest and tell me if Ixenthor can really tumble/charge like that, and if (since Ix has a 60' good fly speed) Ix can tumble/climb to re-setup that tumble/dive, and if it's entirely kosher to have the psionic elephant do nothing but use Psionic Will-save based powers vs. Ix's awesome Will Saving Throw instead of readying an action or delaying to stomp the crap outta Ix after one of those numerous dive attacks. I'm sorry, but if I'm DMing this one, the (intelligent) elephant is going to delay so that he can full attack the diving pain-machine. Also, how on earth did Ix get Brother Englebert for this battle? He's not prebuffed on Ix's sheet. What happened to Enzoul? Also, since when is it legal to combine Miniquests like this? Thanks, anyone. =) TM
MindWandererB 12-26-06, 05:05 PM	Could someone (MWB? Telin?) take a look at the Angels in the Feasthall operation miniquest and tell me if Ixenthor can really tumble/charge like that, and if (since Ix has a 60' good fly speed) Ix can tumble/climb to re-setup that tumble/dive, and if it's entirely kosher to have the psionic elephant do nothing but use Psionic Will-save based powers vs. Ix's awesome Will Saving Throw instead of readying an action or delaying to stomp the crap outta Ix after one of those numerous dive attacks.I don't believe you can tumble and charge at the same time--it's not "normal movement." I see nothing in the FAQ to clarify this, but tumbling while charging is a class feature of the Drunken Master in CW, so it shouldn't be possible normally. Tumbling while climbing should be okay, though. I'm sorry, but if I'm DMing this one, the (intelligent) elephant is going to delay so that he can full attack the diving pain-machine.The elephant isn't intelligent, despite its powers. Given that Ix is the only target in range, using all its powers on him is not unreasonable. I personally would have had it melee attack in each round where Ix was low enough, since even an animal is smart enough to tell attacks that don't work from ones that do. Also, how on earth did Ix get Brother Englebert for this battle? He's not prebuffed on Ix's sheet. What happened to Enzoul?They have identical stats; just the names were swapped. Also, since when is it legal to combine Miniquests like this?It's not. Not at all. However, it's not the first time this sort of thing has been approved.
TelinArtho 12-26-06, 05:08 PM	I swear I remember a conversation about Tumble and Charge from way back when, but I can't seem to find it at the moment... might be as far back as Tavern II... regardless, here's my take on it: Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.) Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks of opportunity while doing so. First of all, tumbling through another's area is summarily out - since it specifies that you absolutely can't move through an opponent or even an ally's squares. That said, since the tumble is at half-speed, I would say that this is hindering your movement - so it would also disqualify a tumbling charge. However, with the "accelerated" tumbling - you are moving at full speed - so this to me would indicate that you are not hindered. If Ix makes a full speed tumbling charge (with the -10 penalty) - this is fine with me. Still - moving through another's square is not permitted though.
Erithmu 12-26-06, 05:23 PM	I'll probably have to look at those dives. For the record: First post mentioned the name replacement as a RP function. Elephant was using the Gore option rather than the slam/stamp/stamp option for his full attack. Need to go do some work but I have time tonight to look it over, need a consensus from MWB and Telin on the options: a) Tumble is impossible b) Tumble only at full speed
MindWandererB 12-26-06, 05:27 PM	a) Tumble is impossible b) Tumble only at full speedI'll go along with the accelerated tumbling with a -10 penalty. The description of the Drunken Master doesn't preclude that interpretation.
TelinArtho 12-26-06, 06:10 PM	Okay- looking for some ideas here. Kraegin has now reached frozen status and can now craft some new goodies. He's got 12.6k to work with and could get a fair amount higher than that if I felt there's a good enough reason to do so. Option 1: Craft another PoP (5th). Given my impression of the usefulness of pearls, I am inclined to get a 2nd 5th level pearl just because it boosts his effectiveness by another 5th level spell - and that's always good and fun. Option 2: Sell a PoP (1st) and craft a Stand of Prayer Beads (Healing, Karma and Smiting). This is primarily for a second casting of Unholy Blight and the bonus +4 CL once per cycle. The healing, while nice, is not so important to me. Also, the +4 CL is not huge for him - since his summons already last longer than 2 minutes... Option 3: Sell a PoP (5th) and craft a Brass Horn of Valhalla. That's replacing (effectively) a Bearded Devil with 2d4+1 Level 3 Barbarians per 3FC. If I had the requirements for the Bronze or Iron - I think this would be a better option, but with only level 3 barbarians, I'm not sure its worth it. (Can anyone post the equipment of the 3rd Level Barbarian for me? That might help too) EDIT - nevermind - requires SMVI... Option 4: Upgrade my periapt from +4 to +6 and craft a 2nd PoP (2nd) - not a very appealing option, but it does give me another bonus 4th level spell and the extra 2nd level spell through the pearl. Option 5: Craft a PoP (3rd) and a PoP (4th) - again, not my most favorite option, but it would give me more options on the 3rd level spells. Option 6: Improve my Circlet of Extraplanar Influence to +15 (22500gp market - 2500gp market = 20k /2 crafting = 10kgp) and something else for 2.5k. This would open up options on my LPA list to include things like the Bearded Devil. Since I'm pretty happy with the Nightmare though, I'm not sure that this is worth it. I have no intention on using his diplomacy skill for allies though (other than the LPA benefits). Option 7: Switch my Improved Disarm feat for Craft Magic Arms and Armor (for credits) and add +1 and SR 17 onto my armor or shield for 12.5k. I could craft a custom item without the feat change like a mantle of spell resistance, but I would only be able to afford SR14 in that case... EDIT - of course, I could just memorize the spell and have SR22 for 10 minutes. Option x: Create your own...
Erithmu 12-26-06, 07:28 PM	I would be looking at Option 1 or 5. If crafting still cost xp, I would say save it for a 6th lvl pearl, since 6th lvl cleric spells are probably some of the best in the game (heal,harm, G. dispel, Anti life shell, in your case Planar Ally). So I would store that cash in some pearls and wait for the higher leagues to open up. I agree with you on the usefulness of pearls.
Erithmu 12-26-06, 07:37 PM	I'll probably have to look at those dives. For the record: First post mentioned the name replacement as a RP function. Elephant was using the Gore option rather than the slam/stamp/stamp option for his full attack. Need to go do some work but I have time tonight to look it over, need a consensus from MWB and Telin on the options: a) Tumble is impossible b) Tumble only at full speedSo I went back and looked at the rolls and I actually don't have to change a thing. All the diving tumbles were over the DC 25, except for the one where he failed even the DC 15 check. Assault mission remains the same result.
Caterane 12-26-06, 08:29 PM	I'm sorry, but if I'm DMing this one, the (intelligent) elephant is going to delay so that he can full attack the diving pain-machine. [Well I wouldn't call someone with INT 2 intelligent but I think that's a subjective assessment :P An animal's way to fight is based on instinct not strategic planing, like delays or ready actions. And it's not that I did the same maneuver 10 times in a row. I know you like to see me fail but Rith played your "brilliant mastermind" elephant perfectly right.] Also, how on earth did Ix get Brother Englebert for this battle? He's not prebuffed on Ix's sheet. What happened to Enzoul? [Just a name change for RP purposes; Enzoul lies injured in Talltrees. Same stats.] Also, since when is it legal to combine Miniquests like this? [We've never been too picky about such things. Neither I nor Rith had a lot of time so we combined them. I once ran a quest for Morathor where he was allowed to level to ECL 20 for one fight. Such things need GM approval but since they enrichen the board I'll most likely agree; especially if it's such a minor thing as a combined miniquest] Thanks, anyone. =) TM And tumbling while diving is perfectly allowed. I'll move at double speed downward due to the dive, plus double speed due to charging, and half speed due to tumbling which is still double speed that is needed for a charge. Even without the downward dive speed I can tumble at -10 on the check but that wasn't necessary in this fight.
TelinArtho 12-26-06, 09:41 PM	And tumbling while diving is perfectly allowed. I'll move at double speed downward due to the dive, plus double speed due to charging, and half speed due to tumbling which is still double speed that is needed for a charge. Even without the downward dive speed I can tumble at -10 on the check but that wasn't necessary in this fight. I very much disagree with your logic here Cat. Let's take a different scenario: A mage with exp. retreat cast moves at 30ft regularly and 60ft with the spell along the ground. Does this mean he is now allowed to charge through underbrush, because he is able to move at "full" speed (30ft)? No. I think it is a stretch to allow someone to charge on a tumble at all, but it certainly has to be at least at "full" speed - whether that is your listed speed, the speed of the fly spell, or your flying speed while diving.
Zevox 12-27-06, 01:03 AM	I'm with Telin and MWB here. Tumbling while charging is definite no-no unless you use accelerate tumbling. The rules clearly state that anything that slows your movement prevents charging, so voluntarily slowing your movement to tumble will prevent charging. No tumbling dives/charges unless you use accelerated tumbling. Zevox
TelinArtho 12-27-06, 10:45 AM	Contingent Conjuration: A 4th-level thaumaturgist can prepare a summoning or calling spell ahead of time to be triggered by some other event. This functions as described for the contingency spell, including having the thaumaturgist cast the summoning or calling spell beforehand. The spell is cast instantly when the trigger event occurs. The conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear, although they can be general. If complicated or convoluted condition as are prescribed, the contingent conjuration may fail when triggered. The conjuration spell occurs based solely on the stated conditions, regardless of whether the thaumaturgist wants it to, although most conjurations can be dismissed normally. A thaumaturgist can have only one contingent conjuration active at a time. Okay, so Kraegin is in anticipation of the higher leagues being open and looking forward to this particular ability of the thaumaturgist. As his player, I do need to ask some clarifications about it however. 1. I assume it must follow the conditions of the Contingency spell, which at 11th level will mean he can place up to a 3rd level spell into contingency. Does he need to choose the specific summons at the time of the contingency, or can he make that decision based on the triggering event? (So if he is attacked in melee by a land-based foe he can choose a huge centipede; if he is attacked by a flying foe, he can choose a dire bat) 2. What are some decent triggering conditions? I've never used contingency in my life (let's see here 22 years of playing and never used that one spell...), and I've only seen it used maybe once or twice. I'm thinking of stuff like "If I am attacked in melee" or "If I am the target of a spell" but can I be as broad as "If I come to physical harm" or "If I am affected by any spell"?
Erithmu 12-27-06, 11:13 AM	Okay, so Kraegin is in anticipation of the higher leagues being open and looking forward to this particular ability of the thaumaturgist. As his player, I do need to ask some clarifications about it however. 1. I assume it must follow the conditions of the Contingency spell, which at 11th level will mean he can place up to a 3rd level spell into contingency. Does he need to choose the specific summons at the time of the contingency, or can he make that decision based on the triggering event? (So if he is attacked in melee by a land-based foe he can choose a huge centipede; if he is attacked by a flying foe, he can choose a dire bat) 2. What are some decent triggering conditions? I've never used contingency in my life (let's see here 22 years of playing and never used that one spell...), and I've only seen it used maybe once or twice. I'm thinking of stuff like "If I am attacked in melee" or "If I am the target of a spell" but can I be as broad as "If I come to physical harm" or "If I am affected by any spell"? 1: Looking through some of the past thaumaturgists (Peter and Johan both ECL 15, would have said a Harvy, but they don't get the ability till ECL 19 for some reason) they seem to use whatever summon spell they want. While I am not sure I agree with this, it would probably take an elder ruling to put some sense back into it. 2: The even better is some free action that is along the lines of 'clap my hands' 'snap my fingers' sort of thing. 'Start of fight signal' has been used as well. For safety's sake I would make it a little more interesting with like a triple snap or clap, or maybe a word spoken by you in a different language.
Caterane 12-27-06, 11:32 AM	I very much disagree with your logic here Cat. Let's take a different scenario: A mage with exp. retreat cast moves at 30ft regularly and 60ft with the spell along the ground. Does this mean he is now allowed to charge through underbrush, because he is able to move at "full" speed (30ft)? No. I think it is a stretch to allow someone to charge on a tumble at all, but it certainly has to be at least at "full" speed - whether that is your listed speed, the speed of the fly spell, or your flying speed while diving. You compare apples with pirches. Exp.Retreat gives you a new base speed while diving doubles your base speed but the base speed is nethertheless the same. With a base speed of 60 ft, Ixenthor charges 120ft. Anything that slows him below that value prevents a charge. During a dive, Ixenthor dives at 120ft speed while tumbling (thanks to the downward movement).
TelinArtho 12-27-06, 11:42 AM	Okay then, let's use a different example then: A flying character wants to charge in the forest map (which is half speed for flying characters). Can he do this with a dive? The answer is still no - if your speed is reduced in any way - you cannot charge.
Hirumajoe 12-27-06, 11:48 AM	And tumbling while diving is perfectly allowed. I'll move at double speed downward due to the dive, plus double speed due to charging, and half speed due to tumbling which is still double speed that is needed for a charge. Even without the downward dive speed I can tumble at -10 on the check but that wasn't necessary in this fight. Actually, here's a quote from the SRD: Movement During a Charge You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.) If you don’t have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can’t charge that opponent. You can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge. If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn. As I read it, nothing in there talks about needing to move at double speed. There's a line that says you may move up to double speed, but there is no requirement in there or "you must move this fast to be able to charge". What I do see is a key phrase: "and nothing can hinder your movement ". It continues to list a possible list of movement hindering effects, but I'm positive thats not exhaustive. Does non-accelerated tumbling, by itself, ignoring whatever else you are doing that round, slow your movement? Would you be moving faster if you didn't do it? If you answer yes, then that phrase kicks in. I don't see any other clauses on that line (go back up and read it in context) indicating that if you speed yourself up even faster that you can ignore that statement. That would be my rules lawyer interpretation and my 2 cents. P.S. I would also add, if I were DMing, I'd rule out tumbling charges baring some class ability, because in my mind tumbling to avoid attacks means you are doing anything *but* moving in a straight line towards your opponent. You're diving into a roll, spinning to the left at an odd moment, and then doing a jump over a short opponent's head. However, that would be a non-core ruling and just a personal house rule.
TelinArtho 12-27-06, 12:18 PM	So I'm working on yet another character design, however, this one is particularly supceptible to Ego Whip, since his Will save is only +1 and he's got a whopping 4 Cha currently. My question would be at what point is Cha optimal to not be targetted by Ego Whip? At what point is the extra cost from Psionic Hole enough to deter someone from using Ego Whip? Currently his Wis bonus is +0, but I could easily move it up to +2. Moving the Cha up to 8 would be similarly simple. Doing both is nigh impossible though - so I either have a Cha of 8 or Psionic Hole and a Wis bonus of +2 (or even +1). Increasing the Cha is preferable to me, since it doesn't cost me another feat (and I'm fairly short of them as is...), but the Wis bonus does have the nice side effect of improving the Will save (also key) and spot/listen. Since the character will not be using any Cha skills - Cha is negligible to him. Thoughts?
MindWandererB 12-27-06, 12:56 PM	If I were fighting that guy with an Ego Whip character, I'm not sure any of that would be enough deterrent. I think a Cha of 8 and Psionic Hole +2 might be enough, but otherwise you're kind of screwed. I don't know the build, but one option might be to pack a potion or scroll of Eagle's Splendor to make them chew through another 4 Cha. You could even add a potion of Lesser Restoration or a stone of Body Purification on top of that.
TelinArtho 12-27-06, 01:07 PM	I think I might go take a look at Perius and see what kind of effect this would be at ECL6... The potion of Eagle's splendor is a solid idea, mayhaps even a potion of Owl's Wisdom... they would be rarely used, but when needed - it would bring my 4Cha and +3 Will and +2 Wis bonus with Psionic Hole up to 8 Cha, +5 Will, and +4 Wis bonus (meaning 4 extra PP per manifestation of Ego whip...). A cloak of Resistance is certainly a possibility as well to help in general... EDIT: Okay, Perius might not have been the best example, as he only had 15pp/fight, and the save DC on the Ego Whip was only 15. With my charisma boosted to 8 via potion and my wisdom boosted to 18 via potion, I'd have a decent shot against his 5 ego whips unaugmented and a fair shot versus 3 wild surged ones (let's see - he'd need to use 5pp per and then surge the last 2 to get them to DC17 and 2d4 charisma damage). With the psionic hole in there, he'd only be able to manifest 2 of them without full augmentation (7pp per manifestation) or one fully augmented (9pp per manifestation). With a more specialized wilder, I'd be looking at 17pp+/fight and the save DC would start at 17 - boosted up to 19 if augmented. Here I'd have a higher chance for failure - but that's not nearly as bad as the current build...
TelinArtho 12-27-06, 02:09 PM	Okay - so the above has solved some of the problems I have with the character. All that remains really is his vulnerability to energy attacks that are not targeted or from spells. He does have a fair number of hit points (low for the level, but clearly enough to live...), but beyond that - my only real option is multiple resist energy potions... Potions of alignment protection are also on my list - which will also help to boost his stagnant touch AC, but I'm also considering possibly using a potion of Blur to help things too.
Caterane 12-27-06, 02:09 PM	Okay then, let's use a different example then: A flying character wants to charge in the forest map (which is half speed for flying characters). Can he do this with a dive? The answer is still no - if your speed is reduced in any way - you cannot charge. Makes sense. I'll withdraw my previous statement then.
UserNamer 12-27-06, 02:17 PM	A powerstone of expansion with extended duration(+2pp) and double size(+6pp) would cost 100gp right?
TelinArtho 12-27-06, 02:20 PM	Nope. For every two points a powerstone is augmented, the PL increases by one when calculating the cost. What you are looking for is a Powerstone of ExpansionA (ML9) which is treated as PL5 for the pricing: 25 * 9 * 5 = 1125gp. Or 512gp, 5sp crafted.
MitzaVolchenko 12-27-06, 02:21 PM	My new project is here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10840928&postcount=1010) If someone would be so kind as to look over the sheet and see if there are any glaring errors, I would be grateful.
TelinArtho 12-27-06, 02:46 PM	You need to specify a single natural weapon for weapon focus - not all natural weapons (so either claw or bite). In the skills section you need to specify which ranks are from fighter skill points and which are from animal skill points. Your AC in wolverine or human form will not be the same as the AC in hybrid form if you put on the armor in hybrid form. (I may be wrong about the human form part - but you definitely won't have it in animal form - per the latest errata/faq about alternate form. I could be wrong, but I think for your 3rd HD, you have to choose a feat from the animal's list if it has one that you haven't already selected. Other lycanthrope experts can check that. -- I am wrong. Your arrows are too light and too cheap - they should be 3lbs and 1gp per 20 arrows - not 50. [EDIT - the damage on your waraxe doesn't take into account the -1 to damage from what I can tell in at least one case. Aside from that, since your natural weapons are essentially silver - you might find more benefit to using a regular or cold iron or adamantine axe.]
Sutro 12-27-06, 03:19 PM	Gah. I got tripped up on CET and realized the deadline passed 15 minutes ago (just edited Sutro's fight information in). Do I need to take down his activity?
Erithmu 12-27-06, 03:23 PM	@Telin: being a fairly proactive person about ego whip (ie I like it) It may not deter them, but you might have enough to get by if you can finish them off before the potions run out. I think you should be a little more worried about ECL 7 when Psions have the ability to augment egowhip Looking at Tatyana who had 23 pp per fight she can pull off 2 max augments (at DC 20) Gaston (if he had ego whip as a power) would have been the same thing, and at ECL 8 they pick up the ability to throw it 3 times and often at DC 21 (improve Int booster) The other option is using dispel to bring down the buffs. At ECL below 6 i think it will deter, with the potions. You might see it a bit more at ECL 7 and up. And on the next augment loop (8th for Wilders, 11th for Psion (9 w/ overchannel)) you will be getting Ego whips all day long. So getting to ECL 7 shouldn't be bad, but after that you will probably need a backup option, not to mention some way to get all that cash from the potions back.
Erithmu 12-27-06, 03:30 PM	Gah. I got tripped up on CET and realized the deadline passed 15 minutes ago (just edited Sutro's fight information in). Do I need to take down his activity? I wouldn't worry about it, 15 min is normally forgivable. With the holidays, just send a quick PM to your opponent and they should be cool with it.
TelinArtho 12-27-06, 03:44 PM	@Telin: being a fairly proactive person about ego whip (ie I like it) It may not deter them, but you might have enough to get by if you can finish them off before the potions run out. I think you should be a little more worried about ECL 7 when Psions have the ability to augment egowhip Looking at Tatyana who had 23 pp per fight she can pull off 2 max augments (at DC 20) Gaston (if he had ego whip as a power) would have been the same thing, and at ECL 8 they pick up the ability to throw it 3 times and often at DC 21 (improve Int booster) The other option is using dispel to bring down the buffs. At ECL below 6 i think it will deter, with the potions. You might see it a bit more at ECL 7 and up. And on the next augment loop (8th for Wilders, 11th for Psion (9 w/ overchannel)) you will be getting Ego whips all day long. So getting to ECL 7 shouldn't be bad, but after that you will probably need a backup option, not to mention some way to get all that cash from the potions back. Well, I'm certain I won't be able to account for every possible permutation of ego whip, but I'm also hoping I don't face it 3 encounters in a row... that said, I'm still thinking about it. I'm loathe to start a character in the higher ECLs these days, as every single one of them (aside from Jar-red who is still essentially untested) ends up back on the drawing board after 1-5 fights... I also "found" a few more ability points to buy with since I realized that my whopping 6 points into intelligence were giving me a whopping 1 skill point per level extra. Since that gives me a fair few options, I can boost up my cha a little, boost my Wis up to 16 if I want or boost up my dex to help me counter other things than just ego whip... I chose dex for now, but I'm still playing around with it. [EDIT] As to dispel psionics - that would also most likely be a targeted dispel - in which case the psionic hole would be in there as well. Otherwise, they could use an area dispel, but it would only take one of them down at best in that case. My hope is to make Ego Whip not as favorable as say, Energy Ray or something like that. If I can manage that - then I can move on to bigger and better things - like Energy Resistance... the key though is to always give the opponent a better option than ego whip...
Macbrea 12-27-06, 04:17 PM	I could be wrong, but I think for your 3rd HD, you have to choose a feat from the animal's list if it has one that you haven't already selected. Other lycanthrope experts can check that. Actually, the feats are correct. You must take level 1 dwarf first even if a natural shapeshifter. So, Given that bit of information on a 4HD creatures. 1 dwarf (defect arrows), 2HD animal (toughness), 1HD animal is correct method of taking HDs. The feats are backwords only in Toughness (a wolverine feat) should be 3rd and Defect arrows should be first level.
TelinArtho 12-27-06, 04:21 PM	Well, like I said - I wasn't sure - I'll strike it out above though so there's no confusion on it.
Sjiggie 12-27-06, 04:36 PM	I made a new character (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11016791&postcount=1037) who is going into warmind can somebody take a look at him and tell me if something is wrong. I know there are some things that need to be done but I'm limitid in my online time so please only look at mistakes. Thanks :)
Maraxus 12-27-06, 05:13 PM	I made a new character (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11016791&postcount=1037) who is going into warmind can somebody take a look at him and tell me if something is wrong. I know there are some things that need to be done but I'm limitid in my online time so please only look at mistakes. Thanks :) Apart from the fact, that I can't really see a reason to take the souldblade and then Prestige-class out of it? ... No, technically, everything seams to be correct. Maybe Tralamin and Durin can join a party for the "find instructor" miniquest. ;)
Sjiggie 12-27-06, 06:44 PM	I liked the warmind prestige class and soulknife is an easy entrance to that class. I still want to go soulknife after warmind to become a lvl 1-5 soulknife/warmind10/soulknife 6-10 still not sure on how to attain his new levels get to warmind asap (first level warmind at ECL6) or wait a lvl to get speed of thought as a bonus feat plus an enchantment to my mind blade. The idea about the find instructor miniquest sounds good to me :)
Maraxus 12-27-06, 07:37 PM	Warmind is a great Prestige class. :) And yes, the requirements are ugly, it means, you should either be a Psi-Warrior, a Souldknive or a multiclasses character. Okay, a Bard of a Psionic race could do, too ... and be quite funny.
nightbanegod 12-27-06, 07:44 PM	Okay- looking for some ideas here. Kraegin has now reached frozen status...... quick question... how do you become frozen?
Erithmu 12-27-06, 07:53 PM	@NBG: frozen is a status of reaching a league that is not open for fights. If you are frozen you don't gain rewards for fights/MQ/Quests. And are refilled of your stuff if you go on a quest at the end of it. Right now anything ECL10 and up is frozen (see char roster)
Hirumajoe 12-27-06, 08:42 PM	Here's a question regarding ability damage: Say you're a Psion (Egoist) with a psicrystal. Lets say you use Empathic Transfer with your psicrystal as the toucher, touching you. Can you transfer ability damage to your psicrystal? And if so, what happens to it, considering the psicrystal is immune to ability damage? Similarly, what happens to poisons and such if absorbed? Empathic Transfer Psychometabolism Level: Egoist 2, psychic warrior 2 Display: Auditory and material Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Willing creature touched Duration: Instantaneous Power Points: 3 You heal another creature’s wounds, transferring some of its damage to yourself. When you manifest this power, you can heal as much as 2d10 points of damage. The target regains a number of hit points equal to the dice result, and you lose hit points equal to half of that amount. (This loss can bring you to 0 or fewer hit points.) Powers and abilities you may have such as damage reduction and regeneration do not lessen or change this damage, since you are taking the target’s pain into yourself in an empathic manner. The damage transferred by this power has no type, so even if you have immunity to the type of damage the target originally took, the transfer occurs normally and deals hit point damage to you. Alternatively, you can use this power to absorb one poison or one disease afflicting the target creature into yourself. When you absorb a poison or disease, you do not take any of the damage previously dealt to the target by the affliction, but you do assume the burden of making the secondary and/or continuing Fortitude saves to combat the affliction. Finally, you can use this power to transfer up to 1 point of ability damage per manifester level from the target to yourself. Augment For every additional power point you spend, you can heal an additional 2d10 points of damage (to a maximum of 10d10 points per manifestation).
MindWandererB 12-27-06, 09:40 PM	Here's a question regarding ability damage: Say you're a Psion (Egoist) with a psicrystal. Lets say you use Empathic Transfer with your psicrystal as the toucher, touching you. Can you transfer ability damage to your psicrystal? And if so, what happens to it, considering the psicrystal is immune to ability damage? Similarly, what happens to poisons and such if absorbed? Empathic Transfer Psychometabolism Level: Egoist 2, psychic warrior 2 Display: Auditory and material Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Willing creature touched Duration: Instantaneous Power Points: 3 You heal another creature’s wounds, transferring some of its damage to yourself. When you manifest this power, you can heal as much as 2d10 points of damage. The target regains a number of hit points equal to the dice result, and you lose hit points equal to half of that amount. (This loss can bring you to 0 or fewer hit points.) Powers and abilities you may have such as damage reduction and regeneration do not lessen or change this damage, since you are taking the target’s pain into yourself in an empathic manner. The damage transferred by this power has no type, so even if you have immunity to the type of damage the target originally took, the transfer occurs normally and deals hit point damage to you. Alternatively, you can use this power to absorb one poison or one disease afflicting the target creature into yourself. When you absorb a poison or disease, you do not take any of the damage previously dealt to the target by the affliction, but you do assume the burden of making the secondary and/or continuing Fortitude saves to combat the affliction. Finally, you can use this power to transfer up to 1 point of ability damage per manifester level from the target to yourself. Augment For every additional power point you spend, you can heal an additional 2d10 points of damage (to a maximum of 10d10 points per manifestation). No, you can't transfer damage to the psicrystal. Powers delivered that way function exactly as if you manifested them yourself. So you could use your psicrystal to transfer damage from an ally to yourself, even though you aren't there. But if you did as you suggest, the damage would go from you, right back to you.
Hirumajoe 12-27-06, 10:06 PM	No, you can't transfer damage to the psicrystal. Powers delivered that way function exactly as if you manifested them yourself. So you could use your psicrystal to transfer damage from an ally to yourself, even though you aren't there. But if you did as you suggest, the damage would go from you, right back to you. Gotcha. And sharing the spell wouldn't do any good either, given that you can't touch yourself with the power. Thanks for shooting it down. Now I don't feel so bad about taking Concussive Blast. :D
Hirumajoe 12-28-06, 10:33 AM	Ok, once I again I come before the collective wisdom of the Core Coliseum. Kai Engel needs help. (Not to mention I need to clean up his character sheet and update some of his accounting...) I believe that help is most likely in the form of new spells and scrolls, and possibly a weapon or two. After this 3FC finishes, Kai will have access to about 1,200 gp. Currently his 1st level spell selection includes: Mage Armor, Shield Expeditious Retreat Enlarge Person True Strike Magic Missile Protection from Evil I'm thinking of buying scrolls and then scribing the following (note he's a generalist wizard so he can learn anything): Sleep (25 + 100) - Will save or Die Chill Touch (25+100) - Touch for familiar - Better than Shocking grasp until I level. Ray of Enfeeblement (25+100) - No save, improves my melee chances Reduce Person (25 +100) - Fort Save, Counters Enlarge Person 500 gp total Then I'll be taking a week to sell all my old scrolls at cost (yay scribe scroll) and rescribe craft them all into: 3 Scrolls of Buffing (Mage Armor, Shield, Enlarge, Expeditious Retrext) 50 gp each = 150 gp total 8 Scrolls of True Strike 12.5 gp each = 100 gp 1 Scroll of Warding (Protection from Evil x 3) 37.5 gp 3 Scrolls of Ray of Enfeeblement 12.5 gp each = 37.5 gp 3 Scrolls of Chill Touch 12.5 gp each = 37.5 gp 3 Scrolls of Reduce Person 12.5 gp each = 37.5 gp 4 Scrolls of Sleep 12.5 gp each = 50 gp Total: 450 gp I'd be memorizing a casting of Sleep and True Strike. Lastly, I'd be investing in a [mwk] Guisarme - (Crafted for 154.5 gp) providing Reach and Trip. So what obvious things am I overlooking for a gish with 1 level of casting?
TelinArtho 12-28-06, 12:31 PM	Well, the long-awaited Gulgar the Great has arrived. Please clean up after yourselves and let me know what you think... (other than his bad AC that is...)
Macbrea 12-28-06, 03:54 PM	So, is Lord Frost allowed to do a challenge match against all of TLT ECL 3-6 for their forest? :P
TelinArtho 12-28-06, 04:22 PM	If you really wanted to, I suppose you could, but would you really want to face that many characters versus your weakest side (15 touch AC and produce flame, flaming sphere, scorching ray...?): Treetall Oakleg - produce flame, flaming sphere Torel Silvanus - produce flame Faelto - produce flame, scorching ray And most of the characters have access to multiple castings of resist energy to take care of both the Fire Lash and your breath weapon...
spasheridan 12-28-06, 04:24 PM	@Telin- He should definitly reign supreme in melee combat. His tripping / disarming / sundering will be neigh unstoppable. He will have a tough time vs archers or direct damage casters. He looks fun, definitly a 1-d monster with some decent attempts to shore up his weaknesses. Good luck!
TelinArtho 12-28-06, 04:35 PM	@Telin- He should definitly reign supreme in melee combat. His tripping / disarming / sundering will be neigh unstoppable. He will have a tough time vs archers or direct damage casters. He looks fun, definitly a 1-d monster with some decent attempts to shore up his weaknesses. Good luck! Yeah - his AC is certainly a problem, and direct damage casters are going to be a problem for a short time. If I manage to level him once, his saves get a decent boost from picking up a level of cleric. From there, he's able to more efficiently manage special situations with scrolls rather than the more costly potions as well as cover some other special circumstances with low level cleric spells (entropic shield is an amazingly helpful spell...). At ECL8, he picks up a level of fighter, picking up the feat I've always wanted to see: Awesome Blow (and Improved Bull Rush - but who cares about that...). At ECL9 - his movement gets an improvement with a level of Barbarian, which incidentally also improves his melee prowess by a fair amount with rage. By this point, he'll likely also own a pair of Boots of Speed to fully disintegrate any speed advantage a potential opponent would have (heck - he could even keep up with Sir Valkin's Overseer... well, almost anyway...) Beyond that - I'm not sure what I'm going to do with him - I do have a few options though: Cleric/Fighter alternating - slowly gains more access to spells while maintaining a solid footing in the fighting realm. or More Barbarian - gaining class abilities that help improve his survivability (no flanking is always nice... more rage is good and eventual DR is nice too...) I'm still playing around with his potential feats after picking up Awesome Blow. Improved Sunder is certainly on the list, but its not mandatory. With a nice area to threaten with and special maneuvers to make use of, I figure Combat Reflexes might be worthwhile as well. For the cleric, I'm still working out the domains as I want them to both be useful and to be thematic along the lines of the character. For the diety I have created, I'll probably pick up Destruction and Darkness - but I'm certainly not heart-set on it. Blindfight certainly has its uses though, and while the smite from destruction doesn't do a lot of extra damage, the extra +4 to hit can be huge when I pump my BAB over to damage with power attack.
UserNamer 12-28-06, 04:37 PM	Hi, I have a quick question about pitlording: If a player edited his character after the deadline, does this mean and auto-win for the other guy? Or can the pitlord still run the fight if the players accept?
TelinArtho 12-28-06, 04:41 PM	Generally, the opposing player should be given a choice to take an auto-win or to play it out. I suggest that if it was an honest mistake (from a newer player) or if the offending player owned up to it (because he realized his mistake after the fact) - then still run the fight. Most people don't want a string of auto-wins on their characters, and would prefer to see how their characters actually perform. That said - it is entirely within his/her's opponent's right to call the match for editing past the deadline. EDIT - and in the case of Sutro - you'll see that he made a mistake
UserNamer 12-28-06, 04:44 PM	Okay thanks, so it's up to McJaris now.
UserNamer 12-29-06, 05:59 AM	Another quick q: Do feather tokens count toward the cap of expandables?
Abyssal Stalker 12-29-06, 07:37 AM	Another quick q: Do feather tokens count toward the cap of expandables? No, but they must meet the maxCL requirement of ECL+2.
UserNamer 12-29-06, 07:50 AM	No, but they must meet the maxCL requirement of ECL+2. so that would be 14, right?
Hirumajoe 12-29-06, 09:42 AM	Here's a puzzler: If you fall asleep while using a fly spell in the air (say 40' up), do you fall? Fly Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Travel 3 Components: V, S, F/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Creature touched Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load). It can ascend at half speed and descend at double speed, and its maneuverability is good. Using a fly spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally. The subject of a fly spell can charge but not run, and it cannot carry aloft more weight than its maximum load, plus any armor it wears. Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject floats downward 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet of fall. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also descends in this way if the fly spell is dispelled, but not if it is negated by an antimagic field. Arcane Focus A wing feather from any bird. I note that it says using the fly spell takes as much effort as walking. And that using the fly spell includes moving down at double speed. So do you just float there asleep, with the spell receiving no commands to do anything?
UserNamer 12-29-06, 10:46 AM	About what I expected. Thanks for the run. At least Kai is out of the 3FC and can start patching up some holes in his spellbook. Suggestions are welcome. :-) Ray of Enfeeblement, Mount maybe, and Shocking Grasp(at higher cl) is pretty good with a familiar. But you might want to wait 1 lvl(if your going up with wizard)
Abyssal Stalker 12-29-06, 10:57 AM	so that would be 14, right? No, the other way round. The item must be of CL no more than the gladiator's ECL+2, meaning that a gladiator must be ECL10 in order to use feather tokens. The feather token whip with magic missile wands with CL9 were the things that launched this house rule, I think.
Vathelokai 12-29-06, 11:15 AM	No, the other way round. The item must be of CL no more than the gladiator's ECL+2, meaning that a gladiator must be ECL10 in order to use feather tokens. The feather token whip with magic missile wands with CL9 were the things that launched this house rule, I think. Unfortunately that pretty much means you need gather info go get a feather token; preposterous, but those are the rules.
Vathelokai 12-29-06, 11:22 AM	About what I expected. Thanks for the run. At least Kai is out of the 3FC and can start patching up some holes in his spellbook. Suggestions are welcome. :-)Grease has its uses (disarms, blocking hallways, escape artist) Silent images are good for quick diversions (they don't save until they have a reason to, so you can create an illusion of yourself hiding behind a pillar way over there) Chill touch is alright if you're fighting with natural weapons Cause fear can buy you a round or two of healing time. Magic weapon is handy once DR/magic starts showing up. 3 scrolls of mount can be okay for prebuffs (saves you xp rewards, but more expensive than a regular mount in the longrun)
Hirumajoe 12-29-06, 12:34 PM	Grease has its uses (disarms, blocking hallways, escape artist) Silent images are good for quick diversions (they don't save until they have a reason to, so you can create an illusion of yourself hiding behind a pillar way over there) Chill touch is alright if you're fighting with natural weapons Cause fear can buy you a round or two of healing time. Magic weapon is handy once DR/magic starts showing up. 3 scrolls of mount can be okay for prebuffs (saves you xp rewards, but more expensive than a regular mount in the longrun) Grease: This is a great suggestion on re-reading it. It forces a balance check, which means most people become flat footed. Will add it and some scrolls. Silent Images: Interesting. Could in principle buy a few extra rounds of buffing. Or combined with Invisibility later on. Not a sure in, but we'll see how much money I have left. Chill Touch: While I'm not using it with my own natural weapons, I'm using my Familiar as a toucher. I figure 1d6 plus Fort save or lose 1 strength is better than 1d6 Electrical. Cause Fear: Unfortunately, Kai has no way to heal. Magic Weapon: Good point. Not needed immediately, but definitely eventually. Mount: I think I prefer expeditious retreat to mount, simply becuase its greater speed for Kai. (Kai weighs 200 lbs by himself) Thanks for the suggestions!
Abyssal Stalker 12-29-06, 01:00 PM	How does energy drain affect a creature with only racial HD? Are they treated as they were levels? I think they should be, because HD equals levels in every way. Another question about energy drain: how does it affect hit points? It gives -5hp, but does it lower the total hp? 1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level). Is the amount of hp a calculation? Or have they just done things easier with a flat -5hp?
nightbanegod 12-29-06, 01:29 PM	Well, the long-awaited Gulgar the Great has arrived. Please clean up after yourselves and let me know what you think... (other than his bad AC that is...) i would just point out the obvious... lack of healing. seems mundane.. but a bat swarm is still a bat swarm, would also be a short term way to deal with low AC... take a few heavy hits then pot of cure mod... all better
MindWandererB 12-29-06, 01:32 PM	How does energy drain affect a creature with only racial HD? Are they treated as they were levels? I think they should be, because HD equals levels in every way. Another question about energy drain: how does it affect hit points? It gives -5hp, but does it lower the total hp? Is the amount of hp a calculation? Or have they just done things easier with a flat -5hp? Correct. HD are levels. If your negative levels equal your HD, you die. Max HP are decreased by 5. It's a simplified (if seldom accurate) calculation compared to figuring out the hit die and Con value.
NiQil 12-29-06, 01:45 PM	Question on the clerical Darkness Domain... Is the 2nd level spell Blindness listed in this domain the same as the 3rd level clerical spell Blindness/Deafness? I get the fealing Blindness was a 3.0 spell...
MindWandererB 12-29-06, 01:55 PM	Question on the clerical Darkness Domain... Is the 2nd level spell Blindness listed in this domain the same as the 3rd level clerical spell Blindness/Deafness? I get the fealing Blindness was a 3.0 spell... That's correct.
Abyssal Stalker 12-29-06, 02:28 PM	Correct. HD are levels. If your negative levels equal your HD, you die. Max HP are decreased by 5. It's a simplified (if seldom accurate) calculation compared to figuring out the hit die and Con value. OK, thanks! Just making sure.
NiQil 12-29-06, 02:48 PM	Medium and heavy armors (except a breastplate) come with 2 gauntlets. If you are purchasing or crafting a medium or heavy armor that is masterwork, such as masterwork full plate, does that mean that the gauntlets are also masterworked? And are you able to then sell these gauntlets if you were going to add something like a locking gauntlet or spiked gauntlet in it's place? As an example, Joe the fighter crafts a masterwork full plate at normal CoCo crafting costs. This would provide him 2 gauntlets as a part of this masterwork full plate. Are these gauntlets masterwork? Joe also fancies having a spiked gauntlet on one hand to use in grapples, so he crafts a spiked gauntlet to go on his primary hand. Can he now sell the gauntlet he made when crafting the masterwork full plate?
Maraxus 12-29-06, 03:48 PM	...hm, something about that supposed edit went wrong, as it looks...
Maraxus 12-29-06, 03:49 PM	Well, the long-awaited Gulgar the Great has arrived. Please clean up after yourselves and let me know what you think... (other than his bad AC that is...) This looks like a direct agression vs Balrog, Gladius first Centaur, 3 posts higher. ECL6, large, strong, high Wisdom - they are almost alike. ;) ... But then again, the paths are totally diffrent. I will take a level of Psi-Warrior at 5 and maybe even at 6. Then it will be either a pure Psi-Warrior or a Psi-warrior/Monk The Monk offers a good low start: Really useful saves, great AC for no money, unarmed attacks (good in combination with hooves and a reach weapon), improved grapple, then evasion. ... But on the high levels, it does not offer to much and there the Psi-Warrior pure would be better. Damn, why is neither my favored class? I'm even considering excepting the XP/GP-penalty.
MindWandererB 12-29-06, 04:33 PM	Medium and heavy armors (except a breastplate) come with 2 gauntlets. If you are purchasing or crafting a medium or heavy armor that is masterwork, such as masterwork full plate, does that mean that the gauntlets are also masterworked? And are you able to then sell these gauntlets if you were going to add something like a locking gauntlet or spiked gauntlet in it's place? As an example, Joe the fighter crafts a masterwork full plate at normal CoCo crafting costs. This would provide him 2 gauntlets as a part of this masterwork full plate. Are these gauntlets masterwork? Joe also fancies having a spiked gauntlet on one hand to use in grapples, so he crafts a spiked gauntlet to go on his primary hand. Can he now sell the gauntlet he made when crafting the masterwork full plate?I was going to say no, because like a masterwork shield, the attack and defense components are seperate. However, I see no indication that a masterwork shield enchanted as a weapon incurs an extra +300 gp to be a masterwork weapon. However, I'm sure most would agree that if you want the +1 to hit for masterwork gauntlets, you need to shell out the additional 300 gp. If nothing else, you'd get into quite a glitchy gimmick: craft masterwork breastplate, sell the gauntlets as weapons, then sell the armor. You'd make a healthy profit.
NiQil 12-29-06, 06:21 PM	I was going to say no, because like a masterwork shield, the attack and defense components are seperate. However, I see no indication that a masterwork shield enchanted as a weapon incurs an extra +300 gp to be a masterwork weapon. However, I'm sure most would agree that if you want the +1 to hit for masterwork gauntlets, you need to shell out the additional 300 gp. If nothing else, you'd get into quite a glitchy gimmick: craft masterwork breastplate, sell the gauntlets as weapons, then sell the armor. You'd make a healthy profit. My primary concern is the ability to sell the gauntlets after they have been replaced with a different type of gauntlet (spiked or locking). If I pay the cost to craft a spiked gauntlet as a masterwork weapon, then I am going to sell the masterwork gauntlet that came with the masterwork full plate I just made. So what cost should I sell it at? By virtue of being made as a part of the masterwork full plate, they *are masterwork. But since they are also weapons, would they sell as a masterwork weapon (which they are, but were not crafted as costwise), or would they sell as masterwork armor (which they clearly are not, but is how they were crafted costwise)? Another route to go here would be to simply use the difference in cost between a normal gauntlet and a normal spiked gauntlet, and just make a masterwork full plate using that cost difference. But there again, we run into the same problem. I guess what this really boils down to is, do gauntlets crafted as a part of a masterwork suit of armor receive the +1 enhancement bonus to hit that a normal masterwork weapon does? If purchased on their own, gauntlets would be priced as normal masterwork weapons....but when receiving them as a part of a suit of armor is when things go wonky. I think that your analogy to shields used as weapons is fairly accurate....they fall into a similar category. A masterwork heavy shield that is used as a part of a shield bash is going to have the same problem...does it receive the +1 to hit, even though it was crafted at the masterwork price for armor rather than weapons? I'm inclined to say yes, which would mean that gauntlets would as well. Edit: Another question... If a character is wearing a cloak of charisma or is under the effect of an eagle's splendor spell, how would these things interact with the psionic power ego whip? Would the power be able to take away the effect of the cloak/spell, or would it only be able to take that character's charisma as low as it would be with just the cloak/spell? As an example, Bob the cleric has a 10 charisma, and is wearing a cloak of charisma, for an effective rating of 12. He is fighting Phil the psion, who is using Ego Whip as his primary weapon. Phil uses the power to good effect, taking 10 points of charisma away from bob, leaving him with only the 2 points of charisma that the cloak is providing. Can another use of ego whip take away those 2 points? Or substitute an Eagle's Splendor spell in place of the cloak in the above example.
hogarth 12-29-06, 11:43 PM	I guess what this really boils down to is, do gauntlets crafted as a part of a masterwork suit of armor receive the +1 enhancement bonus to hit that a normal masterwork weapon does? If purchased on their own, gauntlets would be priced as normal masterwork weapons....but when receiving them as a part of a suit of armor is when things go wonky. I think that your analogy to shields used as weapons is fairly accurate....they fall into a similar category. A masterwork heavy shield that is used as a part of a shield bash is going to have the same problem...does it receive the +1 to hit, even though it was crafted at the masterwork price for armor rather than weapons? I'm inclined to say yes, which would mean that gauntlets would as well. Here's your answer: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm Shields Shield enhancement bonuses stack with armor enhancement bonuses. Shield enhancement bonuses do not act as attack or damage bonuses when the shield is used in a bash. So I would rule that the same is true for gauntlets. Edit: Another question... If a character is wearing a cloak of charisma or is under the effect of an eagle's splendor spell, how would these things interact with the psionic power ego whip? Would the power be able to take away the effect of the cloak/spell, or would it only be able to take that character's charisma as low as it would be with just the cloak/spell? As an example, Bob the cleric has a 10 charisma, and is wearing a cloak of charisma, for an effective rating of 12. He is fighting Phil the psion, who is using Ego Whip as his primary weapon. Phil uses the power to good effect, taking 10 points of charisma away from bob, leaving him with only the 2 points of charisma that the cloak is providing. Can another use of ego whip take away those 2 points? Yes -- a cloak of Charisma increases the amount of Charisma damage a gladiator can suffer. If Bob takes 12 points of Charisma damage, then he'll have taken 12 points of Charisma damage with or without his cloak on. If he removes the cloak, his Charisma won't be reduced below zero, but that won't remove the fact that he has suffered 12 points of Cha damage. Thus he can't heal himself by having a friend take off the cloak and then put it back on again and raise his Charisma to 2.
TheMagister 12-30-06, 12:13 AM	Well, of course not. But, can you have an ability score with a value of less than zero? If you can't (have a value of less than 0), then a cloak of charisma +2 pretty much makes your minimum Charisma value 2. While that doesn't sound right to me, I can't really get around the logic of it.
Vathelokai 12-30-06, 12:21 AM	Well, of course not. But, can you have an ability score with a value of less than zero? If you can't (have a value of less than 0), then a cloak of charisma +2 pretty much makes your minimum Charisma value 2. While that doesn't sound right to me, I can't really get around the logic of it.Stats are minimum of zero. I talked through that with Stormwind at one point (since Varjo had ability drain) and she gave me a quote from the SRD saying that enhancements to stats can be damaged normally. I don't remember the details though.
Abyssal Stalker 12-30-06, 03:20 AM	I think it's quite clear that enhancement boni can't prevent you from being drained/damaged to zero in any ability. Just compare it to hit points, then it makes perfect sense. You can suffer more damage to your hit points than your max total is, so I don't see any reason why this logic wouldn't apply to abilities as well. We have magic that provides hit points, that can be taken away, so why would abilities be any different. Of course, I'm not counting in the illogical DnD factor. :)
NiQil 12-30-06, 04:24 AM	Alright...so we've established that shields, and by extension gauntlets, do not receive the masterwork bonus to hit when used as weapons if they were crafted using armor pricing. But that doesn't change the original question that I have. If you sell a gauntlet that was crafted as a part of a suit of masterwork full plate, what cost do you sell it at? The only value we seem to have for this is the value of a masterwork gauntlet as if it was crafted as a weapon, even though it wasn't. So do we use this value, or do we arbitrarily make up a value?
Sutro 12-30-06, 05:00 AM	The idea's been around in my mind for a long time, but it took an -agonizingly- long time for me to get the statistical minuteae to my liking. But now, Weapon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11037418&postcount=1040) is up for your perusal. It's my first attempt at a psionic character, so there's possibly some issues there, and there's some formatting problems I'm just too tired to deal with. -Sutro
TheMagister 12-30-06, 05:30 AM	Very pretty! I'm curious, though: what's the reason for the 6 powerstones of energy ray (fire) and only 2 of the other types? I'm of the opinion that you'll get more mileage outta the electricity stones because of the bonus to hit metal armor. The extra 2 damage isn't worth missing entirely. Altogether, though, I'd have to say that she's the best-built pure "gun" I've seen here on the CoCo at ECL 3. Good job! I especially like the strategic placement of the 15 in Cha, ready for that +1 at 4th. I like your thinking! :)
Iced 12-30-06, 05:40 AM	As soon as i muster up the credits i want to play with the paladin variants and the slayer prestige class. I got an idea for a beast of a character that can mix it up in melee and still blast with the rest of them. Thinking something like Pal 3 or 4 then wilder for about 4 levels leading into slayer. Loses wilder manifester levels equal to the number of levels of paladin +1, but the tradeoff is great saves via divine grace and some cool melee warfare powers. Going to try and get the character running after i amass the necessary 5 credits for the variant. Still debating over whether divine might is worth taking that fourth level of paladin but the -4 to AC to adjacent opponents is worth the third level for sure. Also got a centaur half-dragon in the works that's lookin' mean. Heavy bonuses to strength make a +11 modifier out the gate. Large size gives him wings and he's got good speed. Trying to figure out an appropriate class progression in the fighter-based classes, the 5LA is going to hit hard.
Abyssal Stalker 12-30-06, 05:45 AM	Alright...so we've established that shields, and by extension gauntlets, do not receive the masterwork bonus to hit when used as weapons if they were crafted using armor pricing. But that doesn't change the original question that I have. If you sell a gauntlet that was crafted as a part of a suit of masterwork full plate, what cost do you sell it at? The only value we seem to have for this is the value of a masterwork gauntlet as if it was crafted as a weapon, even though it wasn't. So do we use this value, or do we arbitrarily make up a value? One way to think about this could be that the price of the gauntlets is included in the price of the armor. If you sell the gauntlets, the value of the armor drops with that amount of money. THen you don't gain or lose anything, and nothing is basically been houseruled. Allthough you would need to sell the gauntlets with an masterwork armor component, which is a bit made up.
Vathelokai 12-30-06, 10:09 AM	The idea's been around in my mind for a long time, but it took an -agonizingly- long time for me to get the statistical minuteae to my liking. But now, Weapon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11037418&postcount=1040) is up for your perusal. It's my first attempt at a psionic character, so there's possibly some issues there, and there's some formatting problems I'm just too tired to deal with. -Sutro I think the heavy darkwood shield is the wrong price (in the 'special armors' section of the SRD it's listed as 257) Other than that, it looks good.
UserNamer 12-30-06, 10:49 AM	The idea's been around in my mind for a long time, but it took an -agonizingly- long time for me to get the statistical minuteae to my liking. But now, Weapon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11037418&postcount=1040) is up for your perusal. It's my first attempt at a psionic character, so there's possibly some issues there, and there's some formatting problems I'm just too tired to deal with. -Sutro Attributes are wrong I think, you've listed: STR 6 (-2) [2 pts] [8 Base, -2 Racial] DEX 20 (+5) [10 pts] [18 Base, +2 Racial] CON 12 (+1) [06 pts] [14 Base, -2 Racial] INT 10 (+0) [02 pts] [8 Base] WIS 10 (+0) [00 pts] [08 Base] CHA 15 (+2) [8 pts] [8 Base] using 28/36 pts but I think you ment to use an extra 6 on dex and 2 on wis, this is not a problem though, just something I noticed. And your strength should be 8, 2pts = 10-2racial = 8 And since you have no need for strength of 8, I would invest those points in Int instead, for skills. Even though you have high AC, Force Screen could still be good. Etangling Ectoplasm is also good, especially at low lvl vs. enemy mounts. Psionic Grease would be good as well, expecially becouse you have a negative grapple. Everything else looks good.
hogarth 12-30-06, 11:05 AM	If you sell a gauntlet that was crafted as a part of a suit of masterwork full plate, what cost do you sell it at? The only value we seem to have for this is the value of a masterwork gauntlet as if it was crafted as a weapon, even though it wasn't. So do we use this value, or do we arbitrarily make up a value? Semantic Answer: The rules say that certain suits of armor come with gauntlets. In no way does that imply that masterwork suits of armor come with masterwork gauntlets. Logical Answer: The 150 gp masterwork component of a masterwork set of armor is presumably distributed among all of the components of the armor. The amount of the masterwork component that pertains only to the gauntlets is likely negligible. "No Arbitrage" Answer: There's no such thing as a free lunch, so you can't craft a masterwork breastplate and make money selling two masterwork gauntlets, just like you can't buy a 10' ladder for 5 cp, chop it in half and sell it as two 10' poles for 2 sp each. "Appeal to Authority" Answer: Ask the other Elders. I imagine they'll say that you get 1 gauntlet's worth of value by selling a gauntlet.
Zevox 12-30-06, 01:00 PM	As soon as i muster up the credits i want to play with the paladin variants and the slayer prestige class. I got an idea for a beast of a character that can mix it up in melee and still blast with the rest of them. Thinking something like Pal 3 or 4 then wilder for about 4 levels leading into slayer. Loses wilder manifester levels equal to the number of levels of paladin +1, but the tradeoff is great saves via divine grace and some cool melee warfare powers. Going to try and get the character running after i amass the necessary 5 credits for the variant. Still debating over whether divine might is worth taking that fourth level of paladin but the -4 to AC to adjacent opponents is worth the third level for sure. Two little notes for you there Iced: First, its 10 credits to play an Unearthed Arcana variant class, not 5. Second, you should take a look at the copies of the classes in our rules thread, since some things about them were slightly modified due to being seen as too powerful. The Paladin of Slaughter's Debilitating Aura is one of those - here it only gives -1 to AC for foes within 10', not -4. Zevox
UserNamer 12-30-06, 01:49 PM	I think he ment 5 MORE, couse he already has 5 -1??? That's like almost nothing, you could better shaken him istead of doing that.
MindWandererB 12-30-06, 02:00 PM	The idea's been around in my mind for a long time, but it took an -agonizingly- long time for me to get the statistical minuteae to my liking. But now, Weapon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11037418&postcount=1040) is up for your perusal. It's my first attempt at a psionic character, so there's possibly some issues there, and there's some formatting problems I'm just too tired to deal with. -SutroAn odd thing that I'm surprised no one's commented on: With power stones and scrolls, unlike tattoos and potions, you don't have to choose the variant of the spell/power in advance. A stone of Energy Ray can produce fire, cold, eletricity, or sonic, chosen by you at the time of manifesting. Alright...so we've established that shields, and by extension gauntlets, do not receive the masterwork bonus to hit when used as weapons if they were crafted using armor pricing. But that doesn't change the original question that I have. If you sell a gauntlet that was crafted as a part of a suit of masterwork full plate, what cost do you sell it at? The only value we seem to have for this is the value of a masterwork gauntlet as if it was crafted as a weapon, even though it wasn't. So do we use this value, or do we arbitrarily make up a value?Although the gauntlets are considered part of the armor, there's no such thing as masterwork (armor) gauntlets. It's sort of like the Tiin Woodsman of Oz: if you take the gauntlets off the armor and replace them with non-masterwork gauntlets, the whole thing is still masterwork. So basically, the gauntlets are normal gauntlets in all respects. And I mean all respects: you can't make adamantine breastplate, then sell off two pairs of adamantine gauntlets. And in any event, the value of the armor would drop by the value of the gauntlets. And for the sake of the sanity of all involved, I just recommend not doing it. It's not worth it. Well, of course not. But, can you have an ability score with a value of less than zero? If you can't (have a value of less than 0), then a cloak of charisma +2 pretty much makes your minimum Charisma value 2. While that doesn't sound right to me, I can't really get around the logic of it.Here's a weird thing. P1 is wearing a Cloak of Charisma +2, and gets Ego Whipped down to 0. P2 removes P1's cloak. P1 still has a Cha of 0, since that's the minimum. P2 put's P1's cloak back on him. P1 now has a Cha of 2 and regains consciousness. Wacky, but it works.
hogarth 12-30-06, 03:24 PM	Here's a weird thing. P1 is wearing a Cloak of Charisma +2, and gets Ego Whipped down to 0. P2 removes P1's cloak. P1 still has a Cha of 0, since that's the minimum. P2 put's P1's cloak back on him. P1 now has a Cha of 2 and regains consciousness. Wacky, but it works. I disagreed with this in an earlier post. If P1 has taken 12 points of Cha damage and has 10 Cha without his cloak, he's still taken 12 points of damage, not 10. So he would have max(0,10-12)=0 Cha without his cloak and max(0,12-12)=0 Cha with it. Of course I'd be willing to reverse my position if you could point me towards something convincing.
Iced 12-30-06, 05:07 PM	Two little notes for you there Iced: First, its 10 credits to play an Unearthed Arcana variant class, not 5. Second, you should take a look at the copies of the classes in our rules thread, since some things about them were slightly modified due to being seen as too powerful. The Paladin of Slaughter's Debilitating Aura is one of those - here it only gives -1 to AC for foes within 10', not -4. Zevox Well that nerfs my uber-tank a bit :( I'll try and figure out the best way to go with the build. May just take 2 levels of normal paladin for the hps and Divine Grace, max my Cha.
MindWandererB 12-30-06, 05:33 PM	I disagreed with this in an earlier post. If P1 has taken 12 points of Cha damage and has 10 Cha without his cloak, he's still taken 12 points of damage, not 10. So he would have max(0,10-12)=0 Cha without his cloak and max(0,12-12)=0 Cha with it. Of course I'd be willing to reverse my position if you could point me towards something convincing. Simple: ability damage that brings you to less than 0 is never even tracked: Keeping track of negative ability score points is never necessary. A character’s ability score can’t drop below 0.You don't track the damage, you track the score. If it's at 0, and you lose 2, you're still at 0. If you are at 0, and you gain 2, you're at 2.
Abyssal Stalker 12-31-06, 03:49 AM	That really is a stretch of rules, you know. The phrase is just to point out that something funny happens to the character that drops into zero with some ability point - meaning that reducing them more doesn't have an effect. It is different from hit points, that can be dropped below zero and that has an effect. Allowing that silly way to heal ability damage is just...well, silly. It's allowing something to happen without actually doing anything. That's just a loophole, and if you want to read the rules that way, fine. Rules can be read in many ways. Edit: Actually, you're not keeping track of negative ability score points, you're keeping track of ability damage. That's as good way to read that rule as anything else. :)
Abyssal Stalker 12-31-06, 05:21 AM	How many tricks can animals/magical beasts with INT higher than 2 learn? Do they follow the rules of animal companions? For example, if I buy a headband of intelligence to a horse, could it then learn more tricks? What I'm thinking here, is that otherwise it is impossible to get a mount trained for war that also has the improved attack trick.
Macbrea 12-31-06, 09:49 AM	3 tricks per point of INT Animal companions may learn additional ones beyond that. As type animal is Int 1 or 2. And no animal may have an intelligence of 3 or greater. The headband of Intellect is unable to change the type of an animal to magic beast. It would have no effect on an animal with a 2 int.
Abyssal Stalker 12-31-06, 09:59 AM	3 tricks per point of INT Animal companions may learn additional ones beyond that. As type animal is Int 1 or 2. And no animal may have an intelligence of 3 or greater. The headband of Intellect is unable to change the type of an animal to magic beast. It would have no effect on an animal with a 2 int. So I'm looking for an impossible combo, unless the creature is a magical beast.
Macbrea 12-31-06, 10:23 AM	Well, animal companions may have more tricks then 6. But that would require you be a druid, ranger or some varient class that gets companion. The rule that prevents animals from having higher then 3 int is Type: Animal. It is a hard cap for them to have 2 int. Awaken which is banned would allowed you to turn an animal into a magic beast with an Int 2. But remember creatures with an Int above 2 don't learn tricks at all. They are intelligent and may do complex thoughts.
Abyssal Stalker 12-31-06, 11:22 AM	They do learn tricks - for example griffons with an INT of 5. We have rules for teaching them tricks. This creates an interesting question - where's the line?
Abyssal Stalker 12-31-06, 05:23 PM	:cheer::cheer:HAPPY NEW YEAR!:cheer::cheer: It's past midnight here and 2007 is official!
NiQil 01-01-07, 12:00 AM	A couple of questions... 1) Is there a substance that will give a weapon the properties of cold iron, just as silversheen does with alchemical silver? 2) Do extra damage dice, such as a rogue's sneak attack or a soulknife's psychic strike, still do normal damage to something with damage reduction that the weapon being used to make the attack does not bypass? For example, if a soulknife was fighting something that had DR 3/cold iron, would the mind blade's psychic strike damage still damage normally, even though the mind blade itself may not deal enough damage to get through the damage reduction? Or if a rogue makes a sneak attack vs that same creature, but his base weapon deals no damage, do the sneak attack damage dice still count normally?
MindWandererB 01-01-07, 02:04 AM	A couple of questions... 1) Is there a substance that will give a weapon the properties of cold iron, just as silversheen does with alchemical silver? 2) Do extra damage dice, such as a rogue's sneak attack or a soulknife's psychic strike, still do normal damage to something with damage reduction that the weapon being used to make the attack does not bypass? For example, if a soulknife was fighting something that had DR 3/cold iron, would the mind blade's psychic strike damage still damage normally, even though the mind blade itself may not deal enough damage to get through the damage reduction? Or if a rogue makes a sneak attack vs that same creature, but his base weapon deals no damage, do the sneak attack damage dice still count normally?1) Not in core, no. There's one like that in CV, I think. 2) Same damage type as the base weapon. If you sneak attack with an acid flask, it does Xd6 acid damage. If you sneak attack something with DR 20/cold iron, and you do 1d3 base damage + 10d6 sneak attack, you'll probably do some real damage (1d3+10d6-20) if you roll well enough. Same applies to Psionic Weapon and psychic strike. They do learn tricks - for example griffons with an INT of 5. We have rules for teaching them tricks. This creates an interesting question - where's the line?Griffons don't need tricks. They do what you want.
TheMagister 01-01-07, 02:50 AM	Funny...I was given to understand that psionic weapon and psychic strike and deepcrystal were untyped "psychic" damage, not the same type as the weapon...
MindWandererB 01-01-07, 03:15 AM	Funny...I was given to understand that psionic weapon and psychic strike and deepcrystal were untyped "psychic" damage, not the same type as the weapon... Rereading each of those three, I revise my opinion. For Psionic Weapon and Deepcrystal, I stand by what I said:Your attack with a melee weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of damage.For 2 power points, the deep crystal weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of damage.Without further elaboration, the damage is of the same type as, and is cumulative with, the base damage. However, psychic strike is implied to be different (as it affects only nonmindless targets), so I'd say that this damage is in fact untyped.
Abyssal Stalker 01-01-07, 03:28 AM	Griffons don't need tricks. They do what you want. Then why do we have this? :confused: [center][size=3]Services - NPC Services of Gladius[/U] [INDENT][COLOR=darkorchid]There are different kinds of services which a character can make use of. Of course they all cost hard-earned money. Animal Trainers: Most bought animals are already trained but you can opt to buy an untrained version of this animal. Exotic beast always come untrained. Since not every gladiator has the necessary skill to train or rear an animal or a magical beast even, he can hire a professional trainer to do this job for him. Animals, Magical Beasts, and similar allies acquired on quests can be trained by a trainer which takes a week per trick (this does not count against a character's Free Activities). Likewise, you can change its standard feats or relocate its skill points by paying a trainer. Fees for Animal Trainers: Basic Animals.......50 gp (per trick) Basic Animals......100 gp (per feat change) Basic Animals......100 gp (for skill changes) [COLOR="Red"]Giant Eagle........200 gp (per trick) Griffon............250 gp (per trick) Hippogriff.........200 gp (per trick) Giant Owl..........200 gp (per trick) Pegasus............200 gp (per trick) Spider Eater.......500 gp (per trick) Exotic Mounts.....1000 gp (per feat change) Exotic Mounts.....1000 gp (for skill changes) All of the bolded creatures have an INT higher than 2.
nightbanegod 01-01-07, 10:38 AM	Rereading each of those three, I revise my opinion. For Psionic Weapon and Deepcrystal, I stand by what I said:Without further elaboration, the damage is of the same type as, and is cumulative with, the base damage. However, psychic strike is implied to be different (as it affects only nonmindless targets), so I'd say that this damage is in fact untyped. i am going to have to disagree with you on this point. i will argue that BOTH sneak attack and psychic strike would both deal damage as if simply the base weapon had additional dice of damage. reason being is that both of those forms of "additional damage" have clauses. sneak attack should be no different than psychic strike simply because sneak attack has a clause as to when it WOULD apply and psychic strike has a clause for when it WOULDNT apply. those would be the only differences in damage type and how it applies to the target. i could pull up some things to reference along these lines but hey.. its like almost 10 am and i had a killer night last night ... HAPPY NEWYEARS EVERYONE.... so side topic... whats YOUR resolution?
hogarth 01-01-07, 12:23 PM	Griffons don't need tricks. They do what you want. Griffons (and giant eagles, giant owls and pegasi) may not require tricks per se, but they do need training. They all have some boilerplate like the following: Training A Griffon Although intelligent, a griffon requires training before it can bear a rider in combat. To be trained, a griffon must have a friendly attitude toward the trainer (this can be achieved through a successful Diplomacy check). Training a friendly griffon requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.
MindWandererB 01-01-07, 03:19 PM	Griffons (and giant eagles, giant owls and pegasi) may not require tricks per se, but they do need training. They all have some boilerplate like the following: Right... I believe the part of our rules about griffons and tricks is in error. @nightbane: good point. I'd go along with that.
nightbanegod 01-01-07, 10:21 PM	ok so i was thinking... a cleric with the sun domain can destory undead = to his cleric level.. so conversly an evil cleric should be able to command undead = to cleric level. So.... a 3rd lvl cleric with the sun domain could just buy a light warhorse. execute it... pay an NPC to animate it with respective material components then just rebuke it untill he successfully commands it. and since a 3hd skeleton is only CR 1 then it is no different for a living or skeletal light warhorse, and he can use it in the arena.... WOOT!!! ... anyone got anything that says that cant be done?
Zevox 01-01-07, 10:32 PM	ok so i was thinking... a cleric with the sun domain can destory undead = to his cleric level.. so conversly an evil cleric should be able to command undead = to cleric level. So.... a 3rd lvl cleric with the sun domain could just buy a light warhorse. execute it... pay an NPC to animate it with respective material components then just rebuke it untill he successfully commands it. and since a 3hd skeleton is only CR 1 then it is no different for a living or skeletal light warhorse, and he can use it in the arena.... WOOT!!! ... anyone got anything that says that cant be done? The fact that the basic premise is flawed is a start. The domain says that Undead that would be Turned are Destroyed, but theres nothing in that domain's description indicating that it does anything at all for rebuking Clerics; and ergo, it wouldn't. Then even if that weren't a problem you run into the problem that you couldn't pay for an NPC casting of Animate Dead before level 5 without credits, since its a CL 5 spells. Zevox
nightbanegod 01-01-07, 10:46 PM	thought you could pay for NPC spells that are ecl +2 and that would allow it but yeah it says that any undead that would be turned are destroyed and under turning/rebuking undead, it specifies that if an undead would be turned it would instead be rebuked and if it would be destroyed it would INSTEAD be commanded... so if you can destroy an undead with that domain while channeling positive energy then you could command an undead while channeling negative energy... it specifically says that INSTEAD of destroying you command undead.
Zevox 01-01-07, 11:01 PM	thought you could pay for NPC spells that are ecl +2 and that would allow it but yeah it says that any undead that would be turned are destroyed and under turning/rebuking undead, it specifies that if an undead would be turned it would instead be rebuked and if it would be destroyed it would INSTEAD be commanded... so if you can destroy an undead with that domain while channeling positive energy then you could command an undead while channeling negative energy... it specifically says that INSTEAD of destroying you command undead. Thats a general description of the Rebuke/Command ability to differentiate it from Turn/Destroy. It does not mean that every mechanic designed for one works for the other, it just means thats how you work the Rebuke/Command mechanic itself. The Sun Domain only says it works for Turning and Destroying Undead, it does not say anything about doing anything for Rebukers. The two are not the same thing. And yeah, the rule for spellcasting services is that its CL up to your ECL. Zevox
nightbanegod 01-01-07, 11:04 PM	well there went that idea....thanks anyways
Abyssal Stalker 01-02-07, 04:09 AM	Can a creature in gaseous form be grappled? It doesn't say so in the description, but I think that being "insubstantial" is enough to prevent any grapple attempts. I'm feeling quite stupid asking this, but basically grappling isn't limited explicitly. As far as I know, incorporeality is the only way to totally prevetn grapples, but gaseous form probably should do the same thing.
TheMagister 01-02-07, 04:14 AM	Aren't you immune to non-magical attack forms when gaseous? That would rule out grappling, right? EXcept by a mid-level monk. Weirdness. Lemme look. Edit: Okay. That's just stoopid. TECHNICALLY, there's nothing preventing a corporeal being from grappling a creature under the effect of gaseous form. BUT there's that little sentence in the last paragraph that states that it can't manipulate objects. Logically, if you can't manipulate objects, they can't manipulate you. But it's not specifically stated, so the law of reciprocity might not apply. Stoopid.
Abyssal Stalker 01-02-07, 04:29 AM	Aren't you immune to non-magical attack forms when gaseous? That would rule out grappling, right? EXcept by a mid-level monk. Weirdness. Lemme look. Edit: Okay. That's just stoopid. TECHNICALLY, there's nothing preventing a corporeal being from grappling a creature under the effect of gaseous form. BUT there's that little sentence in the last paragraph that states that it can't manipulate objects. Logically, if you can't manipulate objects, they can't manipulate you. But it's not specifically stated, so the law of reciprocity might not apply. Stoopid. Yeah, that's just it. It doesn't say so (because it is obvious?). How the hell you grapple a cloud? :confused: I think that in order to grapple something, you have to grab something that is material. You can't do that with an insubstantial creature. DM: The evil wizard casts obscuring mist. You don't see a thing. Player: I grapple the obscuring mist and drag it away, then my horse grapples the wizard... DM: eh...
TheMagister 01-02-07, 04:35 AM	Playing Devil's Advocate: Yeah, but where are the rules for the cloud condition? Nowhere but in the description of Gaseous Form. And it gives the limitations and guidelines of the condition. And there's nothing in there that says you couldn't be grappled. End Devil's Advocate. Stoopid.
Abyssal Stalker 01-02-07, 04:52 AM	Yeah, I checked all three: spell description special ability grapple rules Maybe Rules of the Game: All about Grappling would bring an ease? I'm at work and can't access the WotC pages.
Abyssal Stalker 01-02-07, 05:03 AM	HA! Found it! Incorporeality Spectres, wraiths, and a few other creatures lack physical bodies. Such creatures are insubstantial and can’t be touched by nonmagical matter or energy. Likewise, they cannot manipulate objects or exert physical force on objects. However, incorporeal beings have a tangible presence that sometimes seems like a physical attack against a corporeal creature. --- Corporeal creatures cannot trip or grapple incorporeal creatures. So incorporeal creatures are in fact insubstantial, and that seems to be their key ability to be unable to grapple or be grappled. Gaseous Form makes the subject insubstantial. Gaseous Form The subject and all its gear become insubstantial...
TheMagister 01-02-07, 05:50 AM	Good enough for me.
Abyssal Stalker 01-02-07, 08:22 AM	Can injury-affecting poison be used on a bludgeoning weapon or a natural weapon? Or does the wound need to be from a piercing/slashing weapon? I think nothing limits poison to slashing/piercing weapons, but I thought to make sure. Natural weapons might be tricky, because the wielder needs to be immune to poison, I guess.
Erithmu 01-02-07, 10:04 AM	Heres a fun follow up: What about the 'Bigby's Hand' Series of spells. Force effect w/ Grapple?
TelinArtho 01-02-07, 10:23 AM	Can injury-affecting poison be used on a bludgeoning weapon or a natural weapon? Or does the wound need to be from a piercing/slashing weapon? I think nothing limits poison to slashing/piercing weapons, but I thought to make sure. Natural weapons might be tricky, because the wielder needs to be immune to poison, I guess. You can apply it to any weapon - bludgeon or otherwise. Just because a bludgeon is blunt, doesn't mean the skin doesn't break under the force - or for that matter that the poison isn't forced into pores or something similar. As to natural weapons, that would be a little more complicated, and it is arguable that any injury the wielder receives has a new chance of poisoning him. That would be a house rule though - since there's nothing that says it can't be done or that there should be special rules about it. Obviously, don't try it with contact poison though...
Macbrea 01-02-07, 10:36 AM	wrong thread.
Caterane 01-02-07, 12:53 PM	@all: I'll be on vacation for a week, starting this thursday. Although I have internet access there, I don't want to put any time into coco and honestly, I need a time-out anyway. MWB isn't available either so we'll skip pairings for January 10. That means, the deadline to post fights for pairings Jan 03 is extended by one week.
Erithmu 01-02-07, 03:26 PM	Questlord wanted: for Ephraim Starting Jan 17th or so. Looking for some RP aspect of founding a group of followers in Promethia (via Leadership, purely roleplaying group). Details can be sent via PM.
Sjiggie 01-02-07, 04:09 PM	If you want I can take the quest. It will be my first one but there is a first time for everything and I believe I now the rules on quest good enough to run one. If you want you can send me the details for the quest and I can prepare it.
Vathelokai 01-02-07, 10:00 PM	want to make sure I'm reading the rules right... If you craft a scroll as a free activity on fight one of your cycle, when do you get the scroll? Fight 2 or at the end of the cycle?
McJarvis 01-02-07, 10:01 PM	want to make sure I'm reading the rules right... If you craft a scroll as a free activity on fight one of your cycle, when do you get the scroll? Fight 2 or at the end of the cycle? End of the cycle.
NiQil 01-02-07, 10:16 PM	And for your consideration....I present Truls Rohk. Feel free to critique and suggest. And yes, his lack of expendables is intentional. Most of ya know by now that I loathe expendables LOL
Zevox 01-02-07, 10:50 PM	And for your consideration....I present Truls Rohk. Feel free to critique and suggest. And yes, his lack of expendables is intentional. Most of ya know by now that I loathe expendables LOL Any particular reason for the Mithril Heavy Shield? If you're just looking for ACP -0, Darkwood does that for a lot less money. Zevox
NiQil 01-02-07, 11:10 PM	Any particular reason for the Mithril Heavy Shield? If you're just looking for ACP -0, Darkwood does that for a lot less money. Zevox Extra hardness and hit points mechanically, and a nice RP visual of a mithral-clad goblin running around with a blade of energy. And also because this character will probably only see use when Blizzard and Wildfire are not being run due to hold-overs or crafting and such, so I don't care as much about him...just something fun to tinker with. Gonna see what I can do with a soulknife sniper...first purchase after his first cycle will be armor and shield both enchanted, and then start adding the shadow/silent moves/slick additions to his armor and go from there.
MindWandererB 01-03-07, 03:28 AM	FYI, guild info will be up an hour or two late tomorrow. I have a conflicting appointment.
hogarth 01-03-07, 11:01 AM	1) When the Sell Item free action is used, when does the gladiator actually lose use of the item? At the beginning of the fight? At the end of the fight? At the end of the 3FC? 2) Are aristocrats proficient with tower shields? The aristocrat is proficient in the use of all simple and martial weapons and with all types of armor and shields. 3) I accidentally had some of my characters craft items in one week when they should have taken two weeks (I thought 7000 gp/day meant crafting price, not market price). Is there any penalty for breaking this rule?
Macbrea 01-03-07, 02:08 PM	Are we allowed to blackmarket items from other WOTC sources for 50 or 150? Example: Choker of Eloquence,Greater (CAdv p132) Necklace made from ivory and jade. +10 Competence bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Perform (sing) checks. Slot: Neck Trans CL 6 , Craft Wondrous Item, 24,000gp
TelinArtho 01-03-07, 02:29 PM	Not unless the pricing actually makes sense... +10 Bluff - 10k +10 Diplomacy - 10k +10 Perform (Sing) - 10k +50% for multiple abilities beyond the first. So... 10k+15k+15k = 40k :)
hogarth 01-03-07, 02:37 PM	Not unless the pricing actually makes sense... +10 Bluff - 10k +10 Diplomacy - 10k +10 Perform (Sing) - 10k +50% for multiple abilities beyond the first. So... 10k+15k+15k = 40k :) Note that a Circlet of Persuasion costs 4500 gp, less than 8 +3 skill items, so there is a vague precedent for having bulk discounts for skill bonuses. On the other hand, the method you cited is exactly how a Crystal Mask of Insightful Detection is priced (although it gives an insight bonus instead of a competence bonus).
Macbrea 01-03-07, 02:42 PM	Well, I was asking as Items from other sources not used in CoCo are still items priced by WoTC. I am guessing the original pricing of that item was done like a staff instead an item with mutliple abilites added later. Not that the item is that useful in CoCo. It was just an example.
Abyssal Stalker 01-03-07, 02:49 PM	I think all custom items should be priced using the table "Estimating Magic Item Values" in the SRD. Using non-core sources is unfair to us who have no books. You could get a magic item cheaper just because you have some book that others don't. (Not that I would be a huge supporter of fair. Life is unfair :))
TelinArtho 01-03-07, 02:49 PM	Note that a Circlet of Persuasion costs 4500 gp, less than 8 +3 skill items, so there is a vague precedent for having bulk discounts for skill bonuses. On the other hand, the method you cited is exactly how a Crystal Mask of Insightful Detection is priced (although it gives an insight bonus instead of a competence bonus). For what it is worth - I think someone once asked if they could get a similar item to the circlet of persuasion, just with another ability-base (don't remember which one), and I believe it was denied (going off of my faulty memory here...) The circlet of persuasion is an exception I would suggest, rather than a precedent. Having an item of +3 competence to all intelligence skills (of which all of the knowledge skills qualify...) is much more useful (in situations) than the equivalent of the cha skills. This is pretty subjective though. We do have a non-subjective formula though - and that would indicate that the item MacBrea mentioned should cost 40k. While it does appear in another WOTC source, it doesn't mean it is acceptable in this environment for only 24k - where all three skills have "benefits" over and above the skills themselves. That said, propose it to Cat and see what he says. As to the credits - it is probably a 15 credit item, though only for 5 credits for a custom item based on another and 2 more 5 credit pricings for combining items. It might be as high as 25 credits though.
McJarvis 01-03-07, 02:53 PM	I was the one asking about the circlet of persuasion, and the responses seemed mixed at best. All I actually wanted to do was reverse-engineer the calculation on it so that you could make a +X to Cha skill item for X2*500 gp. So a +10 to cha based skills would be 50,000 gp based on that formula :)
Macbrea 01-03-07, 02:53 PM	Well, I don't think it should be a 25 credit item. A custom item is still a custom item. You make up Woopy stocking of Doom! It's still a 15 credit item that needs approval. Anyways. I was mostly just asking.
Zevox 01-03-07, 08:07 PM	Query: Do the "Globe of Invulnerability" spells grant immunity to psionic powers too due to the transparency, or not? Zevox
MindWandererB 01-03-07, 10:37 PM	Query: Do the "Globe of Invulnerability" spells grant immunity to psionic powers too due to the transparency, or not? Zevox Yes. Some source mentions this example specifically, I forget which.
Macbrea 01-03-07, 11:16 PM	If you augment a power, is its effective power level increased? Say I manifest mind thrust (Expanded Psionics Handbook, page 120) at an opponent protected by a globe of invulnerability. Is it still a 1st-level power no matter how many power points I spend? An augmented power’s level remains the same unless the augmentation listing specifically states otherwise. Mind thrust (a 1st-level power) can’t ever pierce a globe of invulnerability (which protects against spells and powers of 4th level or less), regardless of how many power points you spend to augment mind thrust. There you go.
Hirumajoe 01-04-07, 12:47 PM	Are you forced to slow down to 1/2 speed due to poor visiblity due to Smoke Sticks/Fog Cloud? And I'm suddenly wishing I had picked up my caltrops from a long time ago....
hogarth 01-04-07, 12:54 PM	Are you forced to slow down to 1/2 speed due to poor visiblity due to Smoke Sticks/Fog Cloud? I don't believe so. It's not the same as being blind -- you can still see things 5' away.
TelinArtho 01-04-07, 01:06 PM	Caltrops could be amazingly effective if the user had acess to a simple illusion spell to cover them up with (silent image would do if you could maintain the concentration, something more if you needed your concentration for other things...)
hogarth 01-04-07, 01:10 PM	Caltrops could be amazingly effective if the user had acess to a simple illusion spell to cover them up with (silent image would do if you could maintain the concentration, something more if you needed your concentration for other things...) What "object, creature, or force" could you create an illusion of that would cover up caltrops, not look conspicuous on one of the arena maps, and still make your opponent want to step on it? A thick rug?
TelinArtho 01-04-07, 01:13 PM	Illusion of the ambient terrain wouldn't qualify as "object"?
hogarth 01-04-07, 01:53 PM	Illusion of the ambient terrain wouldn't qualify as "object"? I wouldn't allow it (I don't think a piece of floor is an object), but I'm sure others would. At any rate, you can't just make an illusion of "absence of caltrops"; there would have to be a bump of some kind concealing them.
Hirumajoe 01-04-07, 02:02 PM	I wouldn't allow it (I don't think a piece of floor is an object), but I'm sure others would. At any rate, you can't just make an illusion of "absence of caltrops"; there would have to be a bump of some kind concealing them. Bring a jug of water and pour it on the ground. Or just bring an empty jug and pretend you did. :-) In regards to the floor, Can I rip up a section of grass sod and hand it to you? How about I smash some of the sidewalk concrete or tiles or whatever they are with my Admantine Greatsword and hand you the chunks. Can I pull out my shovel and start digging into the forest dirt, giving you a pile of it? I definitely think a section of the floor would count as an object. In any case, you're right, the illusion would have to be over them, not on the floor itself, providing a bump. However, none of the surfaces we fight on are perfectly flat. Certainly not the plains, cavern, or forest. The arena is whatever you need, so its not flat for this need. While the Sewer, and City have worked sections, I'm really dubious of their upkeep, considering the "time period". Certainly poorly kept sewers and city blocks are going to have uneven sections, parts breaking, etc. Lastly, the Temple may or may not be well upkept. Its never stated if its well used and cared for.
TelinArtho 01-04-07, 02:18 PM	I wouldn't allow it (I don't think a piece of floor is an object), but I'm sure others would. At any rate, you can't just make an illusion of "absence of caltrops"; there would have to be a bump of some kind concealing them. Right - but at a distance the "bump" is probably nigh imperceptible - and when closer - you'd get your chance to disbelieve the illusion by interacting with it (either by inspecting it specifically when you are closer to it - or by actually stepping on it and finding that there's caltrops there).
hogarth 01-04-07, 02:39 PM	In regards to the floor, Can I rip up a section of grass sod and hand it to you? How about I smash some of the sidewalk concrete or tiles or whatever they are with my Admantine Greatsword and hand you the chunks. Can I pull out my shovel and start digging into the forest dirt, giving you a pile of it? I definitely think a section of the floor would count as an object. We agree on one thing -- a ripped up section of sod, a smashed chunk of tile and a clod of dirt are all objects. :) Like I said, some people would allow it and some wouldn't. I'm imagining a game of "20 Questions" at Telin's house. Me: Is it an object? Telin: Yes. Me: Is it made out of metal? Telin: Yes. Me: Is it in New York? Telin: Yes. Me: Is it the Statue of Liberty? Telin: No. You're never going to guess what it is... Me: I give up; what is the object you were thinking of? Telin: It's a small patch of metal about 17.3 metres above the base of the Statue of Liberty!
MitzaVolchenko 01-05-07, 02:42 AM	While we are on an extended pairings, I am going to be putting the finsihing touches on the campaign that I have been working on for some time. My current project will be an expedition into Western Habari. I have not finalized ECL or alignment requirements. If you have a character, the desire to go on a campaign, and the five credits to spare, PM me. I am looking at starting with the Jan 17th pairings week.
TheMagister 01-05-07, 07:59 AM	Bring a jug of water and pour it on the ground. Or just bring an empty jug and pretend you did. :-) In regards to the floor, Can I rip up a section of grass sod and hand it to you? How about I smash some of the sidewalk concrete or tiles or whatever they are with my Admantine Greatsword and hand you the chunks. Can I pull out my shovel and start digging into the forest dirt, giving you a pile of it? I definitely think a section of the floor would count as an object. In any case, you're right, the illusion would have to be over them, not on the floor itself, providing a bump. However, none of the surfaces we fight on are perfectly flat. Certainly not the plains, cavern, or forest. The arena is whatever you need, so its not flat for this need. While the Sewer, and City have worked sections, I'm really dubious of their upkeep, considering the "time period". Certainly poorly kept sewers and city blocks are going to have uneven sections, parts breaking, etc. Lastly, the Temple may or may not be well upkept. Its never stated if its well used and cared for. You know, there is a spell that mimics terrain. A couple of them, in fact. Hallucinatory Terrain. Mirage Arcana. Check out those illusion descriptions for what exactly you can do with illusions as they regard terrain. (I think the only way to get done what you guys want done is to pay to have the caltrops invisible'd...which would be hella cool) TM
TelinArtho 01-05-07, 10:18 AM	You know, there is a spell that mimics terrain. A couple of them, in fact. Hallucinatory Terrain. Mirage Arcana. Check out those illusion descriptions for what exactly you can do with illusions as they regard terrain. (I think the only way to get done what you guys want done is to pay to have the caltrops invisible'd...which would be hella cool) TM I disagree. Silent Image/Minor/Major Image are all short duration illusions meant to mislead an opponent or situation just long enough to get "the job done." None of them specify that they can't be used to mimic short sections of terrain. They all have concentration + x rounds for a duration. On counterpoint, Hallucinatory Terrain, Illusory Wall and Mirage Arcana can all alter the appearance of a larger section of terrain or features for a much longer period of time. They have the specific condition that they must immitate terrain or land features (or walls, what have you), and for this limitation, the duration is vastly entended - even up to permanent. Permanent Image and Persistant Image could also perform the duties of these three spells (assuming the range and area factors are within the specs of the spell), but are "less efficient" since they are higher level spells.
Hirumajoe 01-05-07, 11:53 AM	I disagree. Silent Image/Minor/Major Image are all short duration illusions meant to mislead an opponent or situation just long enough to get "the job done." None of them specify that they can't be used to mimic short sections of terrain. They all have concentration + x rounds for a duration. On counterpoint, Hallucinatory Terrain, Illusory Wall and Mirage Arcana can all alter the appearance of a larger section of terrain or features for a much longer period of time. They have the specific condition that they must immitate terrain or land features (or walls, what have you), and for this limitation, the duration is vastly entended - even up to permanent. Permanent Image and Persistant Image could also perform the duties of these three spells (assuming the range and area factors are within the specs of the spell), but are "less efficient" since they are higher level spells. Perhaps we're looking at this the wrong way around. Illusions covering up stuff apparently isn't intended (although creatures hiding in them is fine). What if we in addition to droping real caltrops here and there, and then made the illusion of even *more* caltrops everywhere? I could see that as being beneficial in some ways. Your opponent would still be forced to slow down to half speed if they believe the entire floor is covered. Hmm... What happens when a character attempts to disbelieve a real set of caltrops. Can they "succeed" on their "saving throw"? :-)
McJarvis 01-05-07, 01:11 PM	Hmm... What happens when a character attempts to disbelieve a real set of caltrops. Can they "succeed" on their "saving throw"? :-) No....that wouldn't work (otherwise we'd be rolling saving throws for people to disbelieve EVERYTHING)
Guildmaster (WAR) 01-05-07, 01:14 PM	Here's the kicker. Spellcasting services: Cast permenant invisibility on 50 caltrops (going off of the "enchant ammunition" precedent, which may or may not work). Plant invisible caltrops. Cast silent image to create field of visible caltrops in the same square. What kind of penalty would you (as a DM) assign to the unfortunate soul who had to wander through that little minefield? TM
hogarth 01-05-07, 01:15 PM	Perhaps we're looking at this the wrong way around. Illusions covering up stuff apparently isn't intended (although creatures hiding in them is fine). What if we in addition to droping real caltrops here and there, and then made the illusion of even *more* caltrops everywhere? Again, I would have the problem that "even more caltrops" isn't a single object. In my opinion, you could make an illusion of a big spiked plate on the floor if you wanted, but gladiators are going to have a hard time believing that you smuggled that into the arena without anyone noticing.
Abyssal Stalker 01-05-07, 01:20 PM	While we are on an extended pairings, I am going to be putting the finsihing touches on the campaign that I have been working on for some time. My current project will be an expedition into Western Habari. I have not finalized ECL or alignment requirements. If you have a character, the desire to go on a campaign, and the five credits to spare, PM me. I am looking at starting with the Jan 17th pairings week. At least I'm interested in the campaign with Ikhain. Thought to tell this in public, if that affects something. Hope I don't drive anyone away ;)
Hirumajoe 01-05-07, 01:24 PM	Again, I would have the problem that "even more caltrops" isn't a single object. In my opinion, you could make an illusion of a big spiked plate on the floor if you wanted, but gladiators are going to have a hard time believing that you smuggled that into the arena without anyone noticing. Hmm... Ok, how about making the illusion of a commoner who is carrying a giant sack full caltrops with a hole on the bottom quickly dropping them all over the place as he walks around? Edit: Just realized something. I know alot of people request any RP for their characters not occur in the arena. Is all reasoning forced to assume you're in a spectator arena with officials, rules and a crowd? The realizing the plate isn't real because you doubt someone smuggled it into the arena sounds like metagame reasoning. In any case, since by the rules you're allowed to bring traps and set them up for your opponent to run into, is it any different to have "brought" in a steel plate with spikes?
MitzaVolchenko 01-05-07, 01:33 PM	At least I'm interested in the campaign with Ikhain. Thought to tell this in public, if that affects something. Hope I don't drive anyone away ;) Not too owrried about driving anyone away ;) With the resposes so far itwill probably be set at EL 4 or 5. I'll have to see how that meshes with the end game plan I have so far.
hogarth 01-05-07, 01:56 PM	Like it or not, it seems to me that two gladiators are allowed to know everything about each other and about the map before the battle begins. That includes the presence or absence of big spiky objects in your opponent's inventory. If you assume that the fight is occuring outside of the Arena, then it might seem contrived from a RP point of view, but it can't be any more contrived than a rogue carrying a portcullis trap around with him (in case of emergency) or the Burglary free activity (I steal something from my opponent, but I can't use it and I have to give it back to him when the fight's over? Burglars in Gladius must be a helluva lot nicer than they are in Canada!). Edit: Just realized something. I know alot of people request any RP for their characters not occur in the arena. Is all reasoning forced to assume you're in a spectator arena with officials, rules and a crowd? The realizing the plate isn't real because you doubt someone smuggled it into the arena sounds like metagame reasoning. In any case, since by the rules you're allowed to bring traps and set them up for your opponent to run into, is it any different to have "brought" in a steel plate with spikes?
Abyssal Stalker 01-05-07, 02:05 PM	Burglars in Gladius must be a helluva lot nicer than they are in Canada! Yeah, I've heard they are really bad out there!
Hirumajoe 01-05-07, 02:11 PM	Like it or not, it seems to me that two gladiators are allowed to know everything about each other and about the map before the battle begins. That includes the presence or absence of big spiky objects in your opponent's inventory. If you assume that the fight is occuring outside of the Arena, then it might seem contrived from a RP point of view, but it can't be any more contrived than a rogue carrying a portcullis trap around with him (in case of emergency) or the Burglary free activity (I steal something from my opponent, but I can't use it and I have to give it back to him when the fight's over? Burglars in Gladius must be a helluva lot nicer than they are in Canada!). I guess you're right. Unfortunately it rather weakens an illusionist type build. Basically anything you could create would either be disbelieved instantly or if you're producing a believable spell effect, you might as well be using that spell. Information is power, and in the case of illusions, seems to just shut them down. Hmm... That gives me an idea that could be interesting to see: a week of unknown fights. Since that much closer resembles alot of TT play. Someone rolls up the pairings and pitlords, but doesn't put up the actual pairings. People write their tactics, send it the person organizing, who on Friday sends them out to the appropriate Pitlords. Or equivalently, have a week of default tactics. (i.e Only the default tactics are used, no additional tactics could be sent in).
McJarvis 01-05-07, 02:31 PM	I guess you're right. Unfortunately it rather weakens an illusionist type build. Basically anything you could create would either be disbelieved instantly or if you're producing a believable spell effect, you might as well be using that spell. Information is power, and in the case of illusions, seems to just shut them down. Hmm... That gives me an idea that could be interesting to see: a week of unknown fights. Since that much closer resembles alot of TT play. Someone rolls up the pairings and pitlords, but doesn't put up the actual pairings. People write their tactics, send it the person organizing, who on Friday sends them out to the appropriate Pitlords. Or equivalently, have a week of default tactics. (i.e Only the default tactics are used, no additional tactics could be sent in). Distractions should not be underrated. In my mind, illusions are there to mess up the other person tactics. Say you're facing Zodiac: Making an illusion of your character wandering about will mess with his tactics. He either casts a nasty save or die spell at you or wastes time studying every image of you that he sees to try and determine whether you're real or not. Essentially, the illusions become incredibly useful vs alpha-strike builds.
hogarth 01-05-07, 02:39 PM	Distractions should not be underrated. In my mind, illusions are there to mess up the other person tactics. Say you're facing Zodiac: Making an illusion of your character wandering about will mess with his tactics. He either casts a nasty save or die spell at you or wastes time studying every image of you that he sees to try and determine whether you're real or not. I agree; that sort of distraction is particularly useful against spellcasters, since they have such a small number of spells they can cast per fight. In one fight I had Reginald Molehusband hide while his psicrystal used a custom magic item to create an illusion of him in case his opponent had any tactics like "Ready an action to cast a spell on Reginald upon seeing him."
Macbrea 01-05-07, 02:52 PM	Heh, working on Black Spy for CoCo...
Abyssal Stalker 01-05-07, 03:24 PM	There were some strange-named fellows stalking around like Tellish of Ket and Sindorin a while ago...
hogarth 01-05-07, 03:29 PM	There were some strange-named fellows stalking around like Tellish of Ket and Sindorin a while ago... I noticed that Tellish of Ket was asking for advice on the Character Optimization board regarding a Ranger/Monk for his tabletop game.
TelinArtho 01-05-07, 03:31 PM	I've found (even for myself) that players who leave the CoCo frequently stop in from time to time. Tellish, Mohe..., Ashenai, etc. The one exception that I've found is Jindl - who as far as I can tell hasn't logged into the boards since his abrupt departure (might be an indication that he retired that ID and made a new one though).
Vathelokai 01-05-07, 05:34 PM	Sindorin decided that getting better grades at college was more important than hanging around here all day. Good choice in my book. He comes by once a month, skims the boards and fires off a few Emails. Tellish of Ket got heavily addicted to CoCo and went cold turkey after a few weeks/months of fighting the urge. He actually didn't log in for over 6 months and closed his email account. Interesting to see him around again. I'll have to send him a PM.
TheMagister 01-05-07, 06:06 PM	Addicted? :twitch: I'm not addicted! :noway: I can quit anytime I want to, I swear! ... ... :help:
UserNamer 01-07-07, 08:34 AM	Is it possible for a rogue with UMD to use a wand of MM to snipe with, so that he/she gains sneak damage?
Guildmaster (WAR) 01-07-07, 10:53 AM	Is it possible for a rogue with UMD to use a wand of MM to snipe with, so that he/she gains sneak damage? Pretty sure you need an attack roll to gain sneak attack dice. The magic missile spell actually specifies that "specific parts of a creature cannot be singled out". You CAN, however, use UMD and a 375 gp wand to ranged sneak attack with ray of frost (for example). Or a 2250 gp wand to melee sneak attack with a 3d6 shocking grasp. Or a 4500 gp wand to ranged sneak attack with Melf's Acid Arrow or Scorching Ray. You need an attack roll to sneak attack. P.S. - what're the chances that Maraxus and I can get you to re-visit the Rubicanti vs. Durin fight and run out the melee portion of it? TM
UserNamer 01-07-07, 11:02 AM	chances? 100% , I'll run it tomorrow or friday, if you both accept.
TheMagister 01-07-07, 11:39 AM	Oh, I know that Maraxus wants it. He hated that it was left hanging. I can go look up his post, if you want. Well, it's half an hour to the deadline and there has been no final word about the Rubicanti vs. Durin fight. I know, I would have totally crushed my opponent. After all his ammunition I still have about as much HP left as his total and better damage at higher hit ratio. But as it stands now, the fight is unfinished and in the results I stand as looser. Shall I accept this update my sheet, nevertheless? There it is. ... Don't forget to use up all my rocks before meleeing. =) Abbreviated notation is perfectly fine. Oh. And the same round that the Hammer power is used, Rubi should make a touch attack for 1d8 damage (just like a touch spell). So it should look like: 1) Use dorje (no AoO). Melee touch at +9 for 1d8. 2) Flurry at +7/+7 for 1d6+1d8. 3) Flurry at +7/+7 for 1d6+1d8. 4) Use dorje (no AoO). Melee touch at +9 for 1d8. 5) Flurry at +7/+7 for 1d6+1d8. 6) Flurry at +7/+7 for 1d6+1d8. 7) Repeat... I wish I hadn't forgotten to specifically include the use of Metaphysical Weapon in Rubi's tactics. I had it added in in my head and in the tactic's to-hit calculations (+7 normal, +2 (insight [dorje]), +1 metaphysical = +10 => Flurry +8/+8), but I didn't actually SAY to do it. {sigh}
UserNamer 01-07-07, 12:02 PM	tomorrow or friday it is then
TheMagister 01-07-07, 12:03 PM	Bueno. =)
Etiquette_Gnome 01-10-07, 01:17 PM	I couldn't find any reference to this in the rules, but can you have your crossbow start pre-loaded upon entering the arena (to save time), assuming you put this in the pre-fight action section? I'm also curious about a similar pre-buff question. If you pre-buff yourself with a spell before a fight, how much time passes? I know there's that 1d6 hour between fights in the 3FC, but that only seems like it counts for spells that are still running from the prior fight.
McJarvis 01-10-07, 01:39 PM	I'm also curious about a similar pre-buff question. If you pre-buff yourself with a spell before a fight, how much time passes? I know there's that 1d6 hour between fights in the 3FC, but that only seems like it counts for spells that are still running from the prior fight. I'm actually unclear on this as well. I think the hours rolled every week are supposed to happen after fights occur-> but in my head it would make more sense if they happened before the fight occurs.(so you could prebuff before your first fight)
UserNamer 01-10-07, 02:02 PM	what the price for adding scrolls to a spellbook?
Abyssal Stalker 01-10-07, 02:02 PM	I'm actually unclear on this as well. I think the hours rolled every week are supposed to happen after fights occur-> but in my head it would make more sense if they happened before the fight occurs.(so you could prebuff before your first fight) According to my understanding the time roll happens before the fight, for the reasons you have mentioned. That's the way I have alway shandled it. Something like this: Week 23: Jonathon is ready for his fight 1. He pays for a mage armor from a 7th level caster as a prebuff. Time roll is made after he has made that decision. The time roll is 3 hours. That's good for Jonathon. Only 3 hours have passed after the casting, so he has 4 hours left. Week 24: Jonathon is ready for his 2nd fight. He has 4 hours left of that mage armor prebuff. His pitlord can check this from his 3FC info. There is listed under prebuffs/ongoing effects: mage armor (4 hours). The time is rolled and it's 5 hours. Too bad for Jonathon. His prebuff expires an hour before his second fight.
TelinArtho 01-10-07, 02:15 PM	Abyssal has it right.
Macbrea 01-10-07, 02:19 PM	what the price for adding scrolls to a spellbook? Space in the Spellbook A spell takes up one page of the spellbook per spell level. Even a 0-level spell (cantrip) takes one page. A spellbook has one hundred pages. Materials and Costs Materials for writing the spell cost 100 gp per page. Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for the spells she gains for free at each new level. Also, note if you don't want to pay scroll costs for a spell this is also available: In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to the spell’s level × 50 gp. As a method of copying the spell from a npc wizards spell book. You still have to pay the spellbook per page cost for the inks but the cost of the scroll vs getting access to the spell may be cheaper.
UserNamer 01-10-07, 02:30 PM	thank you
UserNamer 01-10-07, 02:34 PM	another q: mounted on a horse, can I take double move action, than a standard action?
Etiquette_Gnome 01-10-07, 03:59 PM	@ Usernamer: From what I know of the rules, your horse has its actions and you have your actions, since directing the horse is a free action that doesn't take up your hands (assuming you make the DC 5 Ride check). This means your mount could even sprint while you draw an item and cast a spell (with a concentration check). The only real limit is that if your mount moves more than 5', you can only make a single melee attack (you can still make a full-attack action with your ranged weapons). Yet another question, can a familiar provide the Aid Another action in regards to Craft checks (assuming it can make the DC 10 with a Take 10)?
McJarvis 01-10-07, 04:08 PM	Note that for mounted combat I believe you must make attacks in the middle of the double movement, if you make the attacks at all. I'm not 100% sure on that, though.
SauroGrenom 01-10-07, 04:26 PM	There are a few specificially defined instances where you can perform other actions while your mount is involved in a double move. You can cast or fire a ranged weapon. In both of these cases, you perform the action at the middle of the double move.
Macbrea 01-10-07, 04:26 PM	It depends on what kind of action your doing. Normal attack = After the horses move action. Charge = At end of horses movement Ranged weapon = At half-way point of movement. Casting a spell = Before or after a single move. Or after a single move during the horses double move.
Zevox 01-10-07, 04:44 PM	It depends on what kind of action your doing. Normal attack = After the horses move action. Charge = At end of horses movement Ranged weapon = At half-way point of movement. Casting a spell = Before or after a single move. Or after a single move during the horses double move. Actually, the casting and ranged weapons rules are the same. Before or after movement if the mount just single-moves, in the middle of it if it double-moves or runs, with concentration for casting if it double-moves or runs. I couldn't find any reference to this in the rules, but can you have your crossbow start pre-loaded upon entering the arena (to save time), assuming you put this in the pre-fight action section? I don't know of any concrete place where our rules say one way or the other, but I've always allowed it, and have always been allowed to do it with my characters (with such few as have used crossbows thus far). The way I see it, if you can have ongoing spell up before a fight, theres no reason you can't have a loaded crossbow. Zevox
PhaedrusXY 01-10-07, 05:29 PM	Hello all. I am just making my first character to post here, and I have a few questions that I couldn't find answers to. 1) I would like to create poison using the Minor Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/minorCreationPsionic.htm) psionic power. Are there any houserules preventing me from doing this during the 1d6 hours before my fights? (I am assuming that I need the minimum Craft: Poison modifers listed in the Colliseum Rules). 2) Can a familiar or psicrystal use Aid Another to give its master a boost to their skill for purposes of meeting the modifiers necessary for crafting alchemical items and poison? 2b) Do you even allow familiars to use Aid Another to boost their master's skill checks at all in here? Do familiars, psicrystals, and animal companions get to make separate spot checks, and other skill checks, when applicable? 3) Can a psion use Precognition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/precognition.htm) to give themselves a +2 to their skills for crafting? What about in combination with Minor Creation, as in question 1? 4) Could I use the Alchemist's Lab to boost my Craft: Poison modifier for the purposes of Minor Creation? 5) Do you allow psicrystals to take feats? Skill points? What base attack bonus do you use for psicrystals? 6) Can a psicrystal use items? (I think I remember seeing this used in a fight I read through on here.) If so, what are their limitations? Can they use power stones and dorjes via their master's Use Psionic Device ranks? Anything else that I should be aware of when using the above mentioned things? Thanks.
Etiquette_Gnome 01-10-07, 05:32 PM	Ooo! Ooh! Another question for the lot of ya. Since a tiny creature has no natural reach and must enter its opponent's square to attack, how many tiny creatures can enter said opponent's square to attack? It would be weird if more medium creatures can gang up on a single foe than tiny.
hogarth 01-10-07, 06:37 PM	I'll answer the ones that I know about. 1) I don't know. 2) Probably not. It states in the rules that allies cannot craft items, so I don't see why they would be allowed to assist. 2b) Familiars, psicrystals, animal companions, etc. all get to make their own skill checks in the arena. I'm sure they can perform the Aid Another action during a match, as long as it's something reasonable like a quasit aiding its master with a Heal check (say). Outside of the arena, I don't know about getting any Aid Another benefits. 3) I don't believe temporary bonuses apply to skill requirements outside of the arena. 4) I don't know. 5) Psicrystals get feats (although they have to take Alertness as their first feat), skill points and construct BAB (+3/4). See these two thread for this and various other rulings: http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8264291&postcount=9 http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8264312&postcount=10 6) Psicrystals can use items, but they're limited in the slots they possess. (See the above Court Decisions posts for a list of slots.) I don't think that a psicrystal could hold a power stone or dorje. Hello all. I am just making my first character to post here, and I have a few questions that I couldn't find answers to. 1) I would like to create poison using the Minor Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/minorCreationPsionic.htm) psionic power. Are there any houserules preventing me from doing this during the 1d6 hours before my fights? (I am assuming that I need the minimum Craft: Poison modifers listed in the Colliseum Rules). 2) Can a familiar or psicrystal use Aid Another to give its master a boost to their skill for purposes of meeting the modifiers necessary for crafting alchemical items and poison? 2b) Do you even allow familiars to use Aid Another to boost their master's skill checks at all in here? Do familiars, psicrystals, and animal companions get to make separate spot checks, and other skill checks, when applicable? 3) Can a psion use Precognition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/precognition.htm) to give themselves a +2 to their skills for crafting? What about in combination with Minor Creation, as in question 1? 4) Could I use the Alchemist's Lab to boost my Craft: Poison modifier for the purposes of Minor Creation? 5) Do you allow psicrystals to take feats? Skill points? What base attack bonus do you use for psicrystals? 6) Can a psicrystal use items? (I think I remember seeing this used in a fight I read through on here.) If so, what are their limitations? Can they use power stones and dorjes via their master's Use Psionic Device ranks? Anything else that I should be aware of when using the above mentioned things? Thanks.
SauroGrenom 01-10-07, 06:39 PM	Ooo! Ooh! Another question for the lot of ya. Since a tiny creature has no natural reach and must enter its opponent's square to attack, how many tiny creatures can enter said opponent's square to attack? It would be weird if more medium creatures can gang up on a single foe than tiny. As far as I know there is no limit on the number of creatures that can be piled into a square if they are all grappling. If not grappling, I don't know of the limits that could be in place. I'd guess that about 16 tiny land bound creatures can fit into a 5' square. But that's just a guess. Tiny creatures can participate in swarms. A swarm of 300 tiny creatures occupies a 10' square. For our setting, I don't see this as ever being a problem of any kind.
hogarth 01-10-07, 06:45 PM	As far as I know there is no limit on the number of creatures that can be piled into a square if they are all grappling. If not grappling, I don't know of the limits that could be in place. I'd guess that about 16 tiny land bound creatures can fit into a 5' square. But that's just a guess. Tiny creatures can participate in swarms. A swarm of 300 tiny creatures occupies a 10' square. For our setting, I don't see this as ever being a problem of any kind. Here's the limit on multiple grapplers: Multiple Grapplers Several combatants can be in a single grapple. Up to four combatants can grapple a single opponent in a given round. Creatures that are one or more size categories smaller than you count for half, creatures that are one size category larger than you count double, and creatures two or more size categories larger count quadruple. Here's the limit on small creatures sharing a square: Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine Creatures Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2½ feet across, so four can fit into a single square. Twenty-five Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can’t reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent’s square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. You can move past them without provoking attacks of opportunity. They also can’t flank an enemy.
SauroGrenom 01-10-07, 07:12 PM	Hello all. I am just making my first character to post here, and I have a few questions that I couldn't find answers to. 1) I would like to create poison using the Minor Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/minorCreationPsionic.htm) psionic power. Are there any houserules preventing me from doing this during the 1d6 hours before my fights? (I am assuming that I need the minimum Craft: Poison modifers listed in the Colliseum Rules). 2) Can a familiar or psicrystal use Aid Another to give its master a boost to their skill for purposes of meeting the modifiers necessary for crafting alchemical items and poison? 2b) Do you even allow familiars to use Aid Another to boost their master's skill checks at all in here? Do familiars, psicrystals, and animal companions get to make separate spot checks, and other skill checks, when applicable? 3) Can a psion use Precognition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/precognition.htm) to give themselves a +2 to their skills for crafting? What about in combination with Minor Creation, as in question 1? 4) Could I use the Alchemist's Lab to boost my Craft: Poison modifier for the purposes of Minor Creation? 5) Do you allow psicrystals to take feats? Skill points? What base attack bonus do you use for psicrystals? 6) Can a psicrystal use items? (I think I remember seeing this used in a fight I read through on here.) If so, what are their limitations? Can they use power stones and dorjes via their master's Use Psionic Device ranks? Anything else that I should be aware of when using the above mentioned things? Thanks. I'll give you one on originality. I've not heard of anyone wanting to use Minor Creation to make poisons. However I'm hesitant to OK anyone using a spell effect (of very low level) to get expensive poisons for free. With our rules, a well built medium level psion can have a +11 INT mod and end with a Alchemy check of about +22. That's free black lotus extract (purple worm poison and many others are out since they're not plant material). At 4500gp each dose, that's too much money to make before each battle with a skill and 1pp. If this came before the elders in the Oracle thread, I'd vote to not allow it. This is an example of an idea that's a bit too good and imbalanced. Familiar's can use the Aid Other actions, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone use it on a skill outside of battle. I don't see why not, but I think it would only be allowed if the familiar had a high enough skill mod to never fail the check needed. In battle, companions of all kinds get their own skill checks. There is a communication issue. Most animal compantions and familiars aren't telepathic and cannot speak untill advanced levels. That communication barrier shouldn't be ignored. Precognition could be used for whatever you want. Use it on your free action if you insist, but that will decrease the number of pp you have in the battles. The alchemy stand improves your craft check. That bonus applies to all times you use the alchemy setup with the check. In the case of this power, I don't think so. Generally psicrystals are treated as creatures of the construct type except where sepcificially stated to be different. The differences are with respect to hp, skills, saves and special abilities granted by the manifester level of the master. Psicrystals have no hands, but they do have a few equipment slots. They cannot "hold" anything. Items that can be used w/o being held can be used by a psicrystal. This includes things like armor, boots, belts, rings and so on.
Etiquette_Gnome 01-10-07, 07:13 PM	So, for offensive purposes (non-grappling), four tiny creatures can attack a single medium/small creature? And can Secret Page be used to overcome scribing costs for spells (only having to pay for the Spell Level * 50gp to gain access), once you can cast it?
TheMagister 01-10-07, 07:17 PM	Hello all. I am just making my first character to post here, and I have a few questions that I couldn't find answers to. I should probably let an Elder handle this, but I'll take a swing at them. By the way, welcome to the CoCo! 1) I would like to create poison using the Minor Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/minorCreationPsionic.htm) psionic power. Are there any houserules preventing me from doing this during the 1d6 hours before my fights? (I am assuming that I need the minimum Craft: Poison modifers listed in the Colliseum Rules). I don't see why not. You can prebuff anything with a long enough duration. At level 1 (of course) this prebuff would be useless, and it could remain useless up through level 18 (if three 6s were rolled for the time rolls). I found this information: Update your prebuffs: If you have used spells or abilities before or during your last fight that still have a remaining duration of at least one hour, the pitlord mentions those in the fight. You can write them into your "Prebuffs" section on your character sheet. If the next Time Roll is lower than the remaining duration of your prebuffs, then they are still running at the beginning of your next match. If you do not list them under prebuffs, they are considered to be dismissed by you. 2) Can a familiar or psicrystal use Aid Another to give its master a boost to their skill for purposes of meeting the modifiers necessary for crafting alchemical items and poison? 2b) Do you even allow familiars to use Aid Another to boost their master's skill checks at all in here? Do familiars, psicrystals, and animal companions get to make separate spot checks, and other skill checks, when applicable? I just don't know. Personally, it seems cheesy to allow knowledge that your familiar/psicrystal gained from you to aid you in a task, but then again, if it's just remembering things that you forgot to do, maybe that's worth a +2. Looking in the PHB, I see that "sometimes another character's help wouldn't be beneficial", and that the DM decides when that "sometimes" is. If I'm a DM, I'd have to require that your familiar be capable of manipulating objects (like an imp or faerie dragon), be reasonably intelligent (6 or better), and be capable of speech or telepathy. But none of that is RAW, and none of that applies here. I'm not qualified to answer this question. Sorry. 3) Can a psion use Precognition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/precognition.htm) to give themselves a +2 to their skills for crafting? What about in combination with Minor Creation, as in question 1? I don't see how. The duration of the power (10 min/level) is too low for it to apply to a whole day's labor. 4) Could I use the Alchemist's Lab to boost my Craft: Poison modifier for the purposes of Minor Creation? I don't see why not. The magic is there to make the process faster and easier, after all. 5) Do you allow psicrystals to take feats? Skill points? What base attack bonus do you use for psicrystals? Yes, every three HD they gain a feat. Psicrystals have the same skill ranks as their owners. They use the construct BAB (per their monster entry in the XPH). Their HD is determined by the manifester level of their master. 6) Can a psicrystal use items? (I think I remember seeing this used in a fight I read through on here.) If so, what are their limitations? Can they use power stones and dorjes via their master's Use Psionic Device ranks? Can they? Yes. Their limitations would be purely physical. I'd imagine that they'd have to point a dorje (for example), which would be beyond their capability. Lacking a head, they couldn't wear a crown, and lacking feet couldn't wear boots. I could see them using power stones by simply touching them, but I couldn't see them carrying a stone anywhere (they need all four legs to walk/climb). Anything else that I should be aware of when using the above mentioned things? Thanks. I can't think of anything, which doesn't mean there isn't more out there. I hope you have fun out there! I look forward to stomping facing you in honorable combat in the arena! TM
Etiquette_Gnome 01-10-07, 07:33 PM	Man, I wish I noticed Minor Creation was a 1st level power when I was making my psion! And it could be useful right at level 7, where it would last long enough to be guaranteed for at least one fight (maybe even level 4 if you extend it).
McJarvis 01-10-07, 08:15 PM	~Lots of stuff I didn't bother to read~. You are(were?) a regular over at the CharOP board, arn't you? Nice to see a familiar face :-). I stopped going there after college..don't have time to check out a million threads a day anymore :) edit-> I see you've met Sauro, who in the case of your poison matter is showing off a very nice difference between those CharOp boards and here. Anything potentially abusable gets balanced pretty quickly around here.... :-) edit#2-> Regarding Creation, our rules for crafting, and balance-> The problem is, of course, that poison is an incredibly expensive & powerful non-magical expendibles. Possible mitigating rules that could be established are either banning it outright, requiring an applicable knowledge check along with poison creating in this way, or even requiring applicable gold be used to make the poison. With that last option it would still be a potent tactic-> It would effectively allow you to convert gold into certain types of items mid-cycle. I like the last option, though I know Cat doesn't like things messing with the cycle...and all that aside, the poisons do not specify on a per-poison basis whether they are all vegtible matter or if they have other things in them as well(during processing)
SauroGrenom 01-10-07, 09:39 PM	TM made a point or two that requires me to clarify and modify my position on a couple of the points in my reply to PhaedrusXY's questions. 1) As I said before, I'm confident that we won't allow anyone to use minor creation to craft highly expensive expendible poisons of short durration. There are only a few on the list of poisons that are clearly made from plants. Even here, it's not clear if they are made entirely from plants. Black Lotus Extract may be dissolved in fat rendered from baslisk brain. Others are clearly from animal sources of some kind. I bring this up only as a rationalizaiton. My opinion is that although this is a cute idea, we cannot allow it in CoCo. 2) I agree that it's probably cheesy to have familiars or psicrystal aid another on skill checks outside of combat. But I don't see anything that doesn't allow it. As mentioned before, I'd allow it only if the companion has no chance of failure. 3) TM makes a great point about the durration of Precognition. It's not long enough to remain in effect through an entire day of crafting. 4) This is a clear no. The Alchemy Lab (or any MW tool) gives a bonus when using it. When using a power to craft something out of ether with a spell effect, you are not using the tool to craft. You are using the spell and your skill to create in a way that doesn't require tools. Thus bonuses from MW tools do not apply. 5) As mentioned before you can find the rules about Psicrystal advancement in The PSI Consortium. 6) TM is wrong on a point here. A psicrystal could never point a dorje. It walks on it legs and has no grasping limbs. Also it can never take levels in a psionic class, although UPD is always an option. The crystal has a carrying capacity as a diminutive quadraped creature. That doesn't allow much in the way of stuff you can carry.
hogarth 01-10-07, 10:04 PM	6) TM is wrong on a point here. A psicrystal could never point a dorje. It walks on it legs and has no grasping limbs. Also it can never take levels in a psionic class, although UPD is always an option. The crystal has a carrying capacity as a diminutive quadraped creature. That doesn't allow much in the way of stuff you can carry. Certain objects are effectively weightless, though: rings, vests and bracelets (for instance) have no weight listed in their descriptions.
TheMagister 01-10-07, 10:27 PM	6) TM is wrong on a point here. A psicrystal could never point a dorje. It walks on it legs and has no grasping limbs. Also it can never take levels in a psionic class, although UPD is always an option. The crystal has a carrying capacity as a diminutive quadraped creature. That doesn't allow much in the way of stuff you can carry. Once again my verbose nature has obscure my actual point. I'd imagine that they'd have to point a dorje (for example), which would be beyond their capability. i.e. - I don't think they can point one either. I don't see a problem with a character leaving his psicrystal and a powerstone of (say) Ectoplasmic Coccoon hidden in the water in the sewer like a buried mine. To activate the stone, all you'd need to do is make a psicraft check and then a DC 25 UPD check. I'm not sayin' it'd be easy, but at later levels it could be useful. Psicrystal sees bad guy, psicrystal traps bad guy, psicrystal tells you where bad guy is. You spend a few rounds setting up sundry nastiness for when he gets back (I'm thinkin' energy wall). TM
McJarvis 01-10-07, 10:28 PM	Even here, it's not clear if they are made entirely from plants. Black Lotus Extract may be dissolved in fat rendered from baslisk brain. Glad I hit the nail on that head...
TheMagister 01-11-07, 02:37 AM	Maraxus has decided to be a sport and accept a loss with his character Durin. Still, *I* don't like winning in such a fashion, so I've decided to run a completely unofficial challenge match with the prize being bragging rights. :cool: I'll start with the already posted fight, and work from there. We were in the forest, and Durin was on his belly with his head under his shield, cowering like a dog that's hiding from stones thrown by a mere boy. ... Just sayin' it like it is, yo. Here's what Usernamer has so far: Starting Position and Situation: Durin rolls 11, and will start in box 1, holding heavy shield and flail. Rubi rolls 9, and will start in box 2, holding loaded sling Durin: 39/39hp; 22 AC; 2/2pp; Rubi: 29/29hp 17 AC; 1/1pp; Round 1: Durin moves out. Rubi moves out. Durin: 39/39hp; 22 AC; 2/2pp; Rubi: 29/29hp 17 AC; 1/1pp; Round 2: Durin moves out. Rubi moves out. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=forest;a=D,M,3,62,9,60, 16,61;b=R,M,62,62,50,62,41,57 Durin: 39/39hp; 22 AC; 2/2pp; Rubi: 29/29hp 17 AC; 1/1pp; Round 3: Durin moves in position and drops prone and starts insulting Rubi. Rubi moves toward his enemy, but fails to pass the river. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=forest;a=D,M,16,61,22,5 9;b=R,M,41,57,38,50 Durin: 39/39hp; 22 AC; 2/2pp; prone Rubi: 29/29hp 17 AC; 1/1pp; Round 4: Durin takes full defense and keeps insulting. Rubi tries to pass the river but fails again. Durin: 39/39hp; 22 AC; 2/2pp; prone, full defense Rubi: 29/29hp 17 AC; 1/1pp; Round 5: Durin takes full defense and keeps insulting. Rubi tries to pass the river again and succeeds, so he moves into position and takes a shot, but misses. http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=forest;a=Name,M,22,59;b =Name,M,38,50,33,51 Durin: 39/39hp; 22 AC; 2/2pp; prone, full defense Rubi: 29/29hp 17 AC; 1/1pp; Round 6-26: Rubi shoots while Durin stays at same position. He hits 2 times for 3 damage total. Rubi sees that it has no use to continue this way, so he puts away his sling and draws a potion of mage armor. Durin: 39/39hp; 22 AC; 2/2pp; prone, full defense Rubi: 29/29hp 17 AC; 1/1pp; Round 27: Round 27: Rubicanti drinks mage armor, draws dorje of offensive precognition while moving closer to Durin. Durin peeks out from under his shield when the rocks stop pinging off of it. He rises and moves back onto the path to close the distance. Durin: 36/39hp; 22 AC; 2/2pp; Rubi: 29/29hp 21 AC; 1/1pp; mage armor (long) http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=forest;a=Rubi,M,33,51,3 0,52,Rubicanti;b=Duri,M,22,59,21,55,Duri n Round 28: Rubicanti draws a stone of force screen while moving and uses a charge off of his dorje of offensive precognition [ML4]. Durin stows his shield and manifests force screen from memory, and takes a two-handed grip on his flail. Durin: 36/39hp; 24 AC; 2/2pp; force screen (ends 48) Rubi: 29/29hp 21 AC; 1/1pp; mage armor (long), offensive precognition (ends 68) http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=forest;a=Rubi,M,30,52,2 6,52,Rubicanti;b=Duri,M,21,55,21,54,Duri n Round 29: Rubicanti uses Force Screen off of the powerstone and stows it. Durin advances, ready to bash n' smash. He bases Rubicanti before Rubicanti can finish his buff sequence! Durin: 36/39hp; 24 AC; 2/2pp; force screen (ends 48) Rubi: 29/29hp 25 AC; 1/1pp; mage armor (long), offensive precognition (ends 68), force screen (ends 49) http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=forest;a=Rubi,M,26,52,R ubicanti;b=Duri,M,21,54,25,52,Durin Round 30: Rubicanti attempts to tumble backward and succeeds[r7+11=18 vs. DC 15+2(undergrowth)] , and completes his move out of Durin's reach. Durin moves closer as fast as he can, cursing at the undergrowth but hopeful that he can pin the faster monk against the river. Round 31: Rubicanti draws his powerstone of vigor and manifests from it. Durin closes the distance, again ending adjacent to Rubicanti. Durin: 36/39hp; 24 AC; 2/2pp; force screen (ends 48) Rubi: 29/29hp 25 AC; 1/1pp; mage armor (long), offensive precognition (ends 68), force screen (ends 49), vigor(10)(ends 51) Round 32: Rubicanti manifests Hammer from his dorje and attempts to touch Durin. r12+9=21. HIT! r11 vs. 20% concealment. Miss. Durin swings at Rubicanti, expending his focus for greater damage. r20! Autohit! Confirm: r12+6=18. No confirm. Dmg: 1+4=5. 4+3=7. Total: 12. Durin Trip vs. Rubi Oppose (Dex): Durin: r4+7=11. Rubi: r3+4=7. Rubicanti is tripped. Durin: 36/39hp; 24 AC; 2/2pp; force screen (ends 48) Rubi: 27/29hp 25 AC; 1/1pp; mage armor (long), offensive precognition (ends 68), force screen (ends 49), vigor(ended) Round 33: Rubicanti rises, provoking an AoO from Durin. Durin misses. Rubicanti attempts to punch Durin. Rubi misses. Durin attempts to trip Rubicanti. Durin fails to trip Rubi. Rubi fails to countertrip Durin. Round 34: Rubi flurries at Durin. He hits once for 8 damage. Hammer ends. Durin tries to trip Rubi. Durin trips Rubi, but misses the followup. Durin: 28/39hp; 24 AC; 2/2pp; force screen (ends 48) Rubi: 27/29hp 25 AC; 1/1pp; mage armor (long), offensive precognition (ends 68), force screen (ends 49), vigor(ended); Hammer (1 charge) Round 35: Rubi rises, provoking an AoO from Durin. r20! Autohit! Confirm: r12+8=18. No confirm. Dmg: 12. Rubi, now respectful of the dwarf's luck (if nothing else), attempts to tumble away to regain some semblance of defense. Once on the path, he stows his dorje of offensive precognition as he moves. He succeeds, putting some distance between the two. Durin, grinning, follows stolidly. Durin: 28/39hp; 24 AC; 2/2pp; force screen (ends 48) Rubi: 15/29hp 25 AC; 1/1pp; mage armor (long), offensive precognition (ends 68), force screen (ends 49), vigor(ended); Hammer (1 charge) http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=forest;a=Rubi,M,33,52,3 3,48,25,47,Rubicanti;b=Duri,M,32,52,31,4 8,Durin Round 36: Rubicanti draws another powerstone of vigor and manifests from it, gaining a cushion of hp. Durin hustles along the path, basing Rubi again. Durin: 28/39hp; 24 AC; 2/2pp; force screen (ends 48) Rubi: 15/29hp 25 AC; 1/1pp; mage armor (long), offensive precognition (ends 68), force screen (ends 49), vigor(10)(ends 56); Hammer (1 charge) Round 37: Somewhat relieved, Rubi manifests Hammer from his dorje and tries to touch Durin. r1! Automiss. Durin laughs at the fumbling blow and sends his flail's spiked head spinning at the boy's thighs to trip him up. r20! Autohit! This is a touch, so no confirmation is necessary. Durin opposed trip: r20!+7 vs. Rubi: impossible. Rubicanti is tripped. Followup attack: r17+6=23. HIT! Dmg: 12. Durin: 28/39hp; 24 AC; 2/2pp; force screen (ends 48) Rubi: 13/29hp 25 AC; 1/1pp; mage armor (long), offensive precognition (ends 68), force screen (ends 49), vigor(ended); Hammer (1 charge) Round 38: Rubicanti scrambles to his feet, drawing another AoO from Durin. Durin misses. Rubi aims a punch at the dwarf's head. Rubi misses. Durin swings for Rubi's thighs again. Durin misses. Round 39: Rubi flurries at Durin. He misses twice. Durin tries to trip. r19+6=25. Hit! Opposed trip: Durin: r3+7=10. Rubi: 1! Followup: r20! Confirm: r15+6=21. HIT! Dmg: 15. Rubi bleeds. I can't even THINK right now. The dice totally decided that. Statistics: Rubicanti d20: 16 rolls, 8.6 average d100: 4 rolls, 25 average d8: 8 rolls, 4.4 average d6: 6 rolls, 3.3 average Durin d20: 21 rolls, 12.4 average d100: 6 rolls, 76.5 average d8: 10 rolls, 4.4 average d6: 2 rolls, 3.5 average But more importantly, check this out: In 7 rounds of combat: Durin: 5 natural 20s. Rubicanti: 3 natural 1s. Durin: 5 rolls of 15 or above. Out of 21 rolls of the d20, Durin rolled 15 or higher TEN TIMES. Looks like Rubi got away with one. Man, thy dice have spoken. :emp: TM
PhaedrusXY 01-11-07, 11:34 AM	I understand your apprehension about making poison with Minor Creation. However, here are a few points I'd like to add in favor of allowing it: 1) It costs skill points, a power known slot, and a 1 power point per use (3 if Extended, and that adds a feat cost). These are not trivial costs, especially the second one. The third one is far from trivial at the low levels, also. Even skill points can be quite valuable. Which is worth more, an ambush round or a few vials of poison? I think it depends on the specifics of the match. If you're facing a Duergar or a prepared druid or cleric, the ambush round is obviously worth more. 2) The save DCs on most poisons are not that difficult to make, and even starting at level 3, alot of characters have the potential to render themselves virtually immune to it via Delay Poison. Also, anyone can buy a bottle of Antitoxin for a +5 to their saves, and if they knew they were facing a character who'd be using this, I'm sure alot would. I've always thought poisons were entirely overpriced, anyway. Noone ever uses them in real games, unless they get them cheaply or for free, as I am trying to do. 3) Regardless of justification using basilisk brains, I think it is completely legal. The poisonous component is obviously the one listed in the name. Other components are there to at most aid in the isolation of said component (which the power does in this case), or in its delivery. So at most, I could see this justification lowering the save DC on the poison, not making it wholly unuseable. Even if you find my arguments unconvincing enough to allow the tactic completely, I think just banning it entirely is unfair. Consider allowing the character to pay a reduced price. I think considering the fact that the poisons are temporary, and will likely not last long enough to be used in all three matches (or maybe even the first in the begining) justifies halving the cost. Coupled to the cost of sacrificing a known power slot, power points, and skill points, I think a drastic reduction in price is justified. Regardless of the comments about the CO board, the entire idea for this board started there. I remember when the original thread started. I thought the idea was to see who could build the strongest legal characters in one on one combat? Have the ideals changed so much that clever use of powers and skills are banned right out in the interest of "fairness"? I hope noone takes offense at any of my comments. I just wanted to lay out my side of the argument.
hogarth 01-11-07, 11:50 AM	Just to add my opinion on psionic poisonmaking, if it were my campaign I would probably curtail the duration of valuable vegetable substances created with Minor/Major Creation as is already done with mineral materials. It's not my call to make, though; I'm not Caterane (the Game Master) nor am I an Elder. Even skill points can be quite valuable. Which is worth more, an ambush round or a few vials of poison? I think it depends on the specifics of the match. If you're facing a Duergar or a prepared druid or cleric, the ambush round is obviously worth more. I agree that skill points are quite valuable. However, you should note that in practice an ambush round is almost useless on most maps -- the Plains map is the only one where you're likely to start with line of effect to your opponent, and the maps are usually large enough to allow a few buffing rounds. Regardless of the comments about the CO board, the entire idea for this board started there. I remember when the original thread started. I thought the idea was to see who could build the strongest legal characters in one on one combat? Have the ideals changed so much that clever use of powers and skills are banned right out in the interest of "fairness"? Suffice it to say that opinions differ on the purpose of this board. I think everyone here could name a ruling that they considered ridiculous and/or arbitrary. That's just the way it works: you can't make everyone happy.
McJarvis 01-11-07, 12:20 PM	I think everyone here could name a ruling that they considered ridiculous and/or arbitrary. Leadership, Energy Missile, Diplomacy, thrallherd, listen DC's, psi-crystals having feats, general reading of feats, etc, etc, etc.... Yeah, a few for all of us :) I think I was the one who commented on the COboard-> I did not mean it to be an attack on the CO board at all. I loved that place while I was there, and like I said...the only reason I'm not there anymore is a decided lack of time.(Though I do cater to Mr. Icy Hot every now and again...) All that aside, @Ph-> I'm afraid you will find creativeness met with contempt here if the person perceiving it doesn't like the flavor of it. My stealth builds were met with more than a few negative comments due to them not fitting what certain members felt were appropriate for stealthy combat. On the other hand, unique builds like Reginald seem to be largely uncommented on either positively or negatively. On the converse side, builds I would consider *boring*(Harvester) garner great praise for their battle-record & tactics. Greatness is in the eyes of the Beholder, I suppose.... In the end, if you have an original idea and there are any perceivable holes it in, it will get shot down(such as it being unclear whether poisons are made of 100% vegi matter, even though I've seen this tactic plenty of times on other boards)
TelinArtho 01-11-07, 01:15 PM	About the minor creation for poison issue, I'm still formulating an opinion about it, but here's some thought process: 1. You must succeed on an appropriate skill check to make a complex item This seems appropriate as the creation and storage of poison is difficult - so an appropriate skill check (Craft - poisonmaking) would apply. 2. Material Component: A tiny piece of matter of the same sort of item you plan to create with minor creation This seems to indicate to me that the character must already have some of the poison available in order to create more of it - so there's some GP investment. In all fairness, a bought dose in my opinion would suffice to allow this. It is unclear to me if the material component is used up on one casting... Hmmm - since this is a psionic power - there is no material component... 3. It must be non-living vegetable matter. Of the poisons, it is difficult to tell which ones are vegetable as opposed to animal, but here's the list I would start with: Contact:Nitharit (DC13, 0, 3d6 Con), Sassone Leaf Residue (DC16, 2d12hp, 1d6 con), Malyss Root Paste (DC16, 1 dex, 2d4 dex), Terinav Root (DC16, 1d6 dex, 2d6 dex), Black Lotus Extract (DC20, 3d6 con, 3d6 con) Ingested: Striped Toadstool (DC11, 1 Wis, 2d6 Wis + 1d4 Int), Id Moss (DC14, 1d4 Int, 2d6 Int) Inhaled: None Injury: Bloodroot (DC12, 0, 1d4 Con + 1d3 Wis), Blue Whinnis (DC14, 1 con, unconsciousness) 4. How much can be created? One dose is clearly less than 1cu ft/level. In fact, one dose is probably in excess of 16 doses (if one dose was 1 oz, then that would be 16...). This is where it can get very abusable. Obviously the player would not be able to sell of his creation. 5. What does allowing this use mean? At ECL3, a character can use 1pp and have a prebuff for 3 hours or use it during the fight (but the casting time is 1 minute...). Alternatively, he could cast it with extend power and get 6 hours out of it. Obviously, no matter what it wouldn't extend beyond the 3FC. 6. Where does the created matter go? I wouldn't agree with allowing it to be placed directly on a weapon, and I would certainly agree with an additional 5% chance to poison oneself with it - since it would need to be handled twice effectively (once to finish the power, once to apply it to a weapon) 7. How abusable is it? If the character is up against duergars or even melee dwarves it is fairly unlikely that they will be at risk from the poison; Delay Poison is a low level spell that could be available to someone for a 150gp scroll (actually 50gp with a ranger-scribed for divine or even 25gp for a bard-scribed for arcane...) or 300gp potion - and it is on the spell list of a few classes (Druid, Ranger, Cleric, Paladin and Bard). I don't know psionics well, but there may be a similar power for that function as well. If you were real cheap - you could even get the ultra cheap Bard brewed Delay Poison potion for 50gp and credits... Antitoxin is around but considering the availability of the other ones, I don't think it is as good an option. My vote on this is still out - but I did want to just put some of this out there.
McJarvis 01-11-07, 01:28 PM	6. Where does the created matter go? I wouldn't agree with allowing it to be placed directly on a weapon, and I would certainly agree with an additional 5% chance to poison oneself with it - since it would need to be handled twice effectively (once to finish the power, once to apply it to a weapon) Well, depending on the outcome of this I might have just found a use for that jungle halfling in UA afterall :)
UserNamer 01-11-07, 01:30 PM	can a small creature ride a horse(large)?
McJarvis 01-11-07, 01:39 PM	can a small creature ride a horse(large)? I'm pretty sure they can. Valen Sky has his psi-crystal ride his horse in most fights...
hogarth 01-11-07, 01:39 PM	7. How abusable is it? If the character is up against duergars or even melee dwarves it is fairly unlikely that they will be at risk from the poison. DC 20 is nothing to sneeze at in low-level fights -- even a tough ECL 3 dwarf would have about a 50% chance of failing a save vs. black lotus.
SauroGrenom 01-11-07, 02:01 PM	PhaedrusXY, I wasn't around for the 1st incarnation of CoCo. From what I understand, CoCo was created as a way to test builds from the optimization boards against one another and see who's build is the best. Since that original concept, CoCo has grown into something different. People still want to test builds, but the idea isn't about exploiting loopholes in the rules to build an uber character. If that was the case, everyone would have the same 3 or 4 characters. We want a place that isn't just fun to play for 2 months, but also fun to play for 2 years. That means that when we hit gray area's in the rules (like this) we need to make sure that we don't disrupt the balance of the whole game and ruin the fun for everyone else. We are using core rules (augmented with other stuff), and we don't have a DM to arbitrate Rule Zero on a case by case basis. We don't have any problems with clever ideas. And we won't ban anything right now. The question was if it would be allowed to use a 1st level power to make poisons, and I say no. You can still use the power, but just not to make things that are so expensive and expendable. From a balance perspective the idea of using a single pp to manufacture over 4000gp in expendable single use items for a fight is way imbalanced, no matter how much you invest in powers, feats or skills. If you stick around a while, you will see that wealth/xp is a major predictor of success in CoCo. We work really hard to make sure that the rules prevent anyone from dramatically increasing their wealth/xp ratio. What you are suggesting does just that. You are suggesting to increase your wealth in every fight by a few thousand gp with the cost of 1pp. Also I'm not convinced that the cost of 1 power and 1 skill point/level is much of a cost to a psion. This idea has fantastic internal synergy. High INT allows more skill points and makes more pp available and is the stat needed for the craft skill. So the investment doesn't really hurt your character or create a weakness in some other place. I must say that I'm just one elder. You may find simpathy with others. There are 5 of us, and you can make your case over in the Oracle.
Zevox 01-11-07, 02:24 PM	can a small creature ride a horse(large)? Of course (see my own character, Istima Telarc, a Goblin who rides a Pegasus, and previously a horse). The only requirements for mounts is that they be at least 1 size larger than you, able to bear a rider, and willing to bear a rider. Note that if the mount is more than 1 size larger than you you cannot fast mount/dismount it though. Zevox
Etiquette_Gnome 01-11-07, 02:30 PM	While DC 20 is nothing to sneeze at at level 3, I can't really see anyone being able to pull off a +20 to Craft (Poisonmaking) at that level. The most I can feasibly see pulled off is +14 (ranks, 20 Int, Skill Focus). Perchance if you spent another feat to have Precognition, it could be +16. Hmm...I guess you could spend the credits and 1600gp for a custom made +4 skill item...then you could get that lofty +20 for an ECL 3. You're still potentially screwed if the fight takes awhile (and that mechanic is just plain weird sometimes). If you spent a 3rd feat for Extend Power (and another 2pp), you would only have a 1 in 6 chance of all your effort being wasted (and then you're safe next level). Of course, this requires incredibly heavy design to get this to work right off the bat. It has potential at higher levels, of course, though you'd be dealing with more experienced opponents and their Fort saves are only going to get better (and that Delay Poison will be even cheaper for them). There still remains the issue of delivery, many builds make it their life's goal to avoid the option of being attacked, especially dangerous ones like this. Not to mention the psion's own personal danger in handling the stuff barring strange (and even more limiting) tactics. Although, would a powerstone have the same manifestation time as the power itself? From what I can tell, only the wand has any text whatsoever stating that the original spell's casting time carries over. That could evade some of the initial investment concerns (reduced PP cost, no Extend Power, etc).
McJarvis 01-11-07, 02:35 PM	While DC 20 is nothing to sneeze at at level 3, I can't really see anyone being able to pull off a +20 to Craft (Poisonmaking) at that level. The most I can feasibly see pulled off is +14 (ranks, 20 Int, Skill Focus). Perchance if you spent another feat to have Precognition, it could be +16. Psion 2/Cleric 1 Skill: +20 (6 (Ranks)+5 (int)+3(skill focus)+4(domain that gives +4 to all crafts)+2(tool)) Alternatively you can shell out 1,600 gp & 5 creds to make a custom item of craft +4 Not that I think this is a viable build-> but at ECL 3 a +20 to craft checks is possible :)
PhaedrusXY 01-11-07, 02:48 PM	I'm pretty sure they can. Valen Sky has his psi-crystal ride his horse in most fights...Aww, darn. That's what I was going to do, too. I thought that was going to be original. ;) So I should bring up this whole poison issue in the Oracle? I wasn't really sure where to ask about it, and since the opening of this thread says it's the place for questions, I put it here.
hogarth 01-11-07, 02:51 PM	Aww, darn. That's what I was going to do, too. I thought that was going to be original. ;) So I should bring up this whole poison issue in the Oracle? I wasn't really sure where to ask about it, and since the opening of this thread says it's the place for questions, I put it here. For general questions, here is fine. But if you want a definitive ruling on existing rules from the Elders, you need to post it in the Oracle of Gladius. If you want to propose new rules or rescind some old ones (good luck with that), that goes in the Council of Gladius.
hogarth 01-11-07, 03:36 PM	Psion 2/Cleric 1 Skill: +20 (6 (Ranks)+5 (int)+3(skill focus)+4(domain that gives +4 to all crafts)+2(tool)) Don't forget an Artiste psicrystal for another +3 (more likely than Skill Focus for a psion).
SauroGrenom 01-11-07, 04:15 PM	Don't forget an Artiste psicrystal for another +3 (more likely than Skill Focus for a psion). Your character can also be Old and that buys you an extra +2 INT.
McJarvis 01-11-07, 04:21 PM	Well there you go...no cleric levels needed. Psion 3 Old-timer Grey elf. Craft +20: (6 (feats(skill focus/psicrystal affinity)) 6 (ranks), 6 int, 2 tool)
Etiquette_Gnome 01-11-07, 04:43 PM	Yet another question, can a wizard sell his spellbook? If so, for how much?
PhaedrusXY 01-11-07, 05:20 PM	Well there you go...no cleric levels needed. Psion 3 Old-timer Grey elf. Craft +20: (6 (feats(skill focus/psicrystal affinity)) 6 (ranks), 6 int, 2 tool)I thought grey elves were houseruled as LA +1 on here. Oh yeah, Mr. IcyHot. I remember you now, McJarvis. I don't have Sandstorm or Frostburn, but that looked like a "cool" character. ;)
SauroGrenom 01-11-07, 05:28 PM	I thought grey elves were houseruled as LA +1 on here. Nope. The other option to get a +2 INT race and no LA is the Fire Elf in UA. You get some fire resistance to boot.
Zevox 01-11-07, 06:44 PM	Aww, darn. That's what I was going to do, too. I thought that was going to be original. ;) Nope, sorry. You'd be about the fourth to do that - Sauro was the first I believe, with his Duergar Kracknol. Then I had my Goblin Psion Istima use that trick for a short time. Then Hirumajoe's Valen Sky used it too. Not a common trick, but not unheard of. Zevox
Vathelokai 01-11-07, 07:12 PM	Happy birthday to me... Happy birthday to me... :confused: :D
TheMagister 01-11-07, 07:20 PM	shameless dude. Absolutely shameless. Still: HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Congrats, dude! TM
SauroGrenom 01-11-07, 07:34 PM	Nope, sorry. You'd be about the fourth to do that - Sauro was the first I believe, with his Duergar Kracknol. Then I had my Goblin Psion Istima use that trick for a short time. Then Hirumajoe's Valen Sky used it too. Not a common trick, but not unheard of. Zevox Yea it's a cute trick to surprise your opponents. Split up into two teams, and telepathicially communicate with the crystal. I made sure the crystal had Combat Riding and Trample feats. That way it could contribute to the battle in a meaningfull way. BTW Happy B-Day Vath.
Vathelokai 01-11-07, 07:37 PM	shameless dude. Absolutely shameless. TMShameless is my specialty. Nah... really shameless would have been to log in as scribelords and give myself a happy birthday.
TelinArtho 01-11-07, 08:26 PM	I don't see why people would say such hurtful things Vath. Personally, coming from someone who was the utmost definition of humble when he won the UNCON competition - I really simply don't understand... really Oh... and happy birthday.
McJarvis 01-11-07, 11:22 PM	Oh yeah, Mr. IcyHot. I remember you now, McJarvis. I don't have Sandstorm or Frostburn, but that looked like a "cool" character. ;) Many thought so :-). I can't wait to play him at a table someday...
TwoPi 01-12-07, 09:13 AM	Just posted a new character for CoCo, following the guide and it said to post over here and have my elders and betters make sure I was all squared away. So here it is: Gell ANy way, just doing what I am told, hope you enjoy.
hogarth 01-12-07, 09:44 AM	1) Why buy a mithral shield? There's almost no advantage to it. If you want to get the reduced armor check penalty, you can buy a darkwood shield instead for much less. 2) I would suggest buying a bow -- otherwise you're in trouble if faster gladiators stay over 150' away from you. Just posted a new character for CoCo, following the guide and it said to post over here and have my elders and betters make sure I was all squared away. So here it is: Gell ANy way, just doing what I am told, hope you enjoy.
TwoPi 01-12-07, 10:03 AM	Hmm never looked at the darkwood shield, I was in the mithril section for the chain shirt and just tacked it on, thanks for the help, I will have to look at that As for the bow with a +1 dex hitting any thing with the bow is going to be hard but with the money I get back from the shield I might be able to pick up a decent composit one, any way thanks **scampers off to change a few things** edit: Soul knife doesnt get bow, have to go with crossbow
UserNamer 01-12-07, 10:21 AM	I have a sugestion: add some potions, like clw, shield of faith, hide from animals and maybe some usefull tattoo's
TwoPi 01-12-07, 10:24 AM	I have a sugestion: add some potions, like clw, shield of faith, hide from animals and maybe some usefull tattoo's good point, this is what I get fo rmaking a character at 4 in the morning I guess, goes to tinker some more Thanks alot for all your help
UserNamer 01-12-07, 10:30 AM	In case you don't know what to buy, here some that I use: potions - shield of faith - hide from animals - jump - cure light wounds - protection from... might be useful as well, for saves+ac tattoos - chameleon - maybe synesthete
Sjiggie 01-12-07, 10:48 AM	@Twopi Your Acid flasks and crossbow bolts don't count against your expendable cap only potions, scrolls, psionic tattoo's and power stones do. The cap on how much gold you can spend on expandables is your ECL2*50. For ECL 3 that would mean 450gp. You can buy your expandables only before you start a new 3-fight cycle not in the middle of it so think about what you want to take with you for 3 fights not only 1. Hope it helps. Good luck with your character
TwoPi 01-12-07, 11:03 AM	Might as well relink it and see if this looks better to people... Gell
UserNamer 01-12-07, 11:07 AM	tattoos = 100gp/each another suggestion: get an non-masterwork weapon, you can carry enough, and you might need em. Sickle is a trip weapon, and the longspear is a reach weapon And a towershield is nice too, for cover/total cover.
TwoPi 01-12-07, 11:09 AM	tattoos = 100gp/each My book says lvl 1 powers at 50 gold a piece, did I miss somethign somewhere that ammends that..?
Sjiggie 01-12-07, 11:16 AM	Yes there is one line that says that tattoo's with a range of personal cost double. It's under the creating a psionic tattoo description. The user of the psionic tattoo is both the manifester and the target; therefore, powers that target another creature cannot be stored in psionic tattoo form. Powers with a range of personal can be made into psionic tattoos, but they cost double the price of standard psionic tattoos.
TwoPi 01-12-07, 11:21 AM	Ahh...I see. Well that is an easy fix drop one of the vigors and it evens out. The Tattoos were somethign i had never looked at before, since my DM in town dont like the psionics at all.
UserNamer 01-12-07, 11:26 AM	5hp added to your 27 is not much, you should realize that.
TwoPi 01-12-07, 11:31 AM	It is more of an emergency back up thing then anything else.
UserNamer 01-12-07, 12:07 PM	a quick q here: how can I calculate the price and the weight for armor for a tiny animal?
TwoPi 01-12-07, 12:33 PM	a quick q here: how can I calculate the price and the weight for armor for a tiny animal? Page 123 of the Player's Hand book has a chart for armor, I think that is what you need
hogarth 01-12-07, 12:36 PM	a quick q here: how can I calculate the price and the weight for armor for a tiny animal? Note that tiny armor or smaller only gives 1/2 the armor bonus.
McJarvis 01-13-07, 12:46 AM	How massive does a projectile have to be before it is considered "massive" for the purposes of deflect arrows? Rough rundown of progression of projectile sizes: Bullet Arrow Dagger Throwing Axe Javelin Larger versions of these weapons.... It's important to know...what if a half-giant wields a large-sized javelin? Is this considered large "enough" to be massive? What if a huge-sized giant is wielding a javelin? Or does massive only mean boulders? ~McJ~
SauroGrenom 01-13-07, 01:13 PM	It is my understanding that "Massive" is things that are large relative to the character. Since the game is written for medium or small sized characters, this means things that are big and heavy relative to a medium character. So that would be things like siege ammunition and boulders.
Abyssal Stalker 01-13-07, 01:21 PM	I'd say that anything that's bigger than a javelin in your size is too big to be deflected. I mean, deflecting a huge javelin? Yeah, right. What if I throw you with a sharpened log? That could be a javelin for a colossal creature, but soudns like unusually massive for a medium creature. So deflecting large arrows would be yes, but deflecting large javelins wouldn't (for a medium character).
UserNamer 01-13-07, 04:28 PM	I just finished my first monk (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11140348&postcount=1048) here in CoCo. I would appreciate it if you could take a look and give some comment.
McJarvis 01-13-07, 08:14 PM	It is my understanding that "Massive" is things that are large relative to the character. Since the game is written for medium or small sized characters, this means things that are big and heavy relative to a medium character. So that would be things like siege ammunition and boulders. I'd say that anything that's bigger than a javelin in your size is too big to be deflected. I mean, deflecting a huge javelin? Yeah, right. What if I throw you with a sharpened log? That could be a javelin for a colossal creature, but soudns like unusually massive for a medium creature. So deflecting large arrows would be yes, but deflecting large javelins wouldn't (for a medium character). Which of these is correct?((ie-> Do you agree with Abyssal, Sauro?)) Is a large-category arrow considered too large for a medium character to deflect, or is it within appropriate size-category because it is still smaller than a medium-sized javelin? I'm curious for both CoCo purposes(my mage that has deflect arrows) and my home games.(I tend to favor CoCo decisions for home-games, and I may be doing a series where Ogres-wielding Javelins is an issue. :-)
hogarth 01-13-07, 08:36 PM	Which of these is correct?((ie-> Do you agree with Abyssal, Sauro?)) Is a large-category arrow considered too large for a medium character to deflect, or is it within appropriate size-category because it is still smaller than a medium-sized javelin? I'm curious for both CoCo purposes(my mage that has deflect arrows) and my home games.(I tend to favor CoCo decisions for home-games, and I may be doing a series where Ogres-wielding Javelins is an issue. :-) A Large javelin does the same damage as a Medium spear, but weighs less. A Medium creature could throw one (with both hands). So I'd say a Medium creature could deflect it. Maybe you could say "if you can't throw it, you can't deflect it"?
Etiquette_Gnome 01-13-07, 10:19 PM	Sounds almost like I'm leaning towards Huge javelin or a Large spear, though that "if you can't throw it, you can't deflect it" sounds like a better rule of thumb.
McJarvis 01-13-07, 11:57 PM	Maybe you could say "if you can't throw it, you can't deflect it"? That's an interesting rule of thumb(you know, the size of the object you can throw at your wife....)-> though it leads to some interesting circumstances with the hulking hurler outside of core :)
Etiquette_Gnome 01-14-07, 02:48 AM	Thought I'd actually try to get your opinion on this build I'm thinking of using, Hiisi Ivaldi
Zevox 01-14-07, 03:29 AM	Thought I'd actually try to get your opinion on this build I'm thinking of using, Hiisi Ivaldi You have a little problem right off the bat here: your Knowledge (Architecture & Engeneering) skill is not high enough to craft your musket. According to our skill rules about it, its DC 20 for both the Craft and Knowledge checks with take 10, so +9 doesn't cut it. Edit: Oh, and Craft (Firearms) won't let you craft your crossbow or bolts yourself either. The skill for that is Craft (Weaponsmithing). Just something to note on your horse, but since your ride check is only +2, you'll need to be making DC 5 ride checks every round if you want to ride with both hands free (failure means you need one hand on the reigns to control your mount). Something like that could bite you at the worst time sometimes. You may want to reconsider the Eschew Materials feat - its largely useless here, since a spell component pouch essentially accomplishes exactly what it does. Also, are you sure you want to make him a non-specialized wizard? In the arena the extra spells (and thus spell levels) from specializing can be a real life saver. Zevox
Abyssal Stalker 01-14-07, 09:31 AM	A Large javelin does the same damage as a Medium spear, but weighs less. A Medium creature could throw one (with both hands). So I'd say a Medium creature could deflect it. Maybe you could say "if you can't throw it, you can't deflect it"?Actually, I was aiming for something like this. More like: "If you have an "inappropriate size"-penalty with a weapon, you can't deflect it." Stupid question: How do you throw a spear with two hands? :confused: You couldn't throw it the way spears are usually thrown.
Abyssal Stalker 01-14-07, 09:59 AM	Thought I'd actually try to get your opinion on this build I'm thinking of using, Hiisi Ivaldi You can't apply the poison as a prebuff. In order to prebuff with poison you need to have poison use or poison immunity. (Because of the 5% chance of getting poisoned)
hogarth 01-14-07, 10:48 AM	Actually, I was aiming for something like this. More like: "If you have an "inappropriate size"-penalty with a weapon, you can't deflect it." Well, I wouldn't consider a Large-sized shuriken (1 lb) "unusually massive". Stupid question: How do you throw a spear with two hands? :confused: You couldn't throw it the way spears are usually thrown. I'm having a hard time imagining throwing a spear 2-handed, too, but them's the rules.
UserNamer 01-14-07, 10:55 AM	When using the Alter Self spell to transform into some other creature do I need to have a Knowledge skill? And if so, how high should it be? EDIT: Shoul I be writing down in creature I;m going to transform, example: Alter Self(trog)?
Zevox 01-14-07, 12:12 PM	When using the Alter Self spell to transform into some other creature do I need to have a Knowledge skill? And if so, how high should it be? EDIT: Shoul I be writing down in creature I;m going to transform, example: Alter Self(trog)? Yes, you do. The complete info on our house-rules for shape changing spells/powers is in the rules thread, under the "Meta Rules" post. For Knowledge, you need to have the appropriate Knowledge skill with a modifier equal to at least 2x the HD of the creature you wish to change into. For specifying forms, you do need to that with items using any shape-changing spell/power. You do not if you prepare the spell yourself. Zevox
Etiquette_Gnome 01-14-07, 12:52 PM	You have a little problem right off the bat here: your Knowledge (Architecture & Engeneering) skill is not high enough to craft your musket. According to our skill rules about it, its DC 20 for both the Craft and Knowledge checks with take 10, so +9 doesn't cut it. Edit: Oh, and Craft (Firearms) won't let you craft your crossbow or bolts yourself either. The skill for that is Craft (Weaponsmithing). Just something to note on your horse, but since your ride check is only +2, you'll need to be making DC 5 ride checks every round if you want to ride with both hands free (failure means you need one hand on the reigns to control your mount). Something like that could bite you at the worst time sometimes. You may want to reconsider the Eschew Materials feat - its largely useless here, since a spell component pouch essentially accomplishes exactly what it does. Also, are you sure you want to make him a non-specialized wizard? In the arena the extra spells (and thus spell levels) from specializing can be a real life saver. That Knowledge (Engineering) better be higher than +9, as it's +13 from what I can tell. Also, while I do no have ranks in Craft (weaponsmithing), my intelligence and tools give me a +6 bonus, sufficient to make them untrained. I'm not sure what other feat to take besides eschew materials myself, as it's somewhat related to me being a non-specialized wizard since I was thinking of taking Spell Focus earlier; I don't want to limit my spell selection, as every school is showing me a potentially really handy spell except possibly conjuration (which has some nifty higher level uses). As for the Ride part, not quite sure how to fix that part, though I'm hoping that the speed advantage I'll have here I can stand still at least one round here and there. As for the prebuff with poison thing, I can't just have the check to see if I expose myself beforehand? Oh, and is that a problem for injury poison to apply it? I don't really see how it's a 5% chance for anybody to get poison directly into their bloodstream when applying it to a bullet. Edit: Just realized you meant the Knowledge skill (reading the firearm rules)...
Zevox 01-14-07, 01:51 PM	That Knowledge (Engineering) better be higher than +9, as it's +13 from what I can tell. Also, while I do no have ranks in Craft (weaponsmithing), my intelligence and tools give me a +6 bonus, sufficient to make them untrained. Ah, might have been looking at some other knowledge skill when I posted that (Dungeoneering mabe). And for some reason I thought Craft was a trained-only skill. As for the prebuff with poison thing, I can't just have the check to see if I expose myself beforehand? Oh, and is that a problem for injury poison to apply it? I don't really see how it's a 5% chance for anybody to get poison directly into their bloodstream when applying it to a bullet. No matter what the type of poison, applying it to a weapon applies a 5% chance of poisoning yourself while doing it. I suppose the rationale is the possibility of cutting yourself as much as the possibility of touching the poison, but regardless its the core rules. Because of that, you can't prebuff it here if you're not immune to it or have the Poison Use ability to ignore the self-poisoning chance. Zevox
Etiquette_Gnome 01-14-07, 02:44 PM	*sigh* Noticeable chance of cutting myself on a small lead ball, but only when poison is around, 'tis pathetic looking. Man, I should get an adamantine shuriken while I'm at it; can't even dent that thing without the mightiest of blows, but if I so much as toss it at a tent wall, it shatters instantly... Addendum: Given what you guys know of these here boards, what would you suggest as far as feats go? And is not being a specialist going to be that much of a hindrance to me?
Abyssal Stalker 01-15-07, 03:10 PM	I'm planning on a cohort for Jonathon. I've understood that I can quest for her beforehand, because Jonathon won't be able to take leadership until ECL10. I was balancing between a druid and a cleric, but a cleric fits storywise much better. A druid would've been quite efficient with large wild shape, etc, but on the other hand Jonathon already has some decent melee power. I'm looking for a cleric that can give the extra kick to him. This is what I've got so far: Gender and Race: Female Human with Minor Vampire Bloodline Size and Type: Medium Humanoid Height and Weight: (Height) (Weight) Age: (Age (Age Category if applicable or just Age if no age category)) Alignment: Lawful Evil ECL: 8 (Cleric 8) STR 8 (-1) (10 base, -2 race) DEX 14 (+2) (12 base, +2 race) CON 12 (+1) (14 base, -2 race) INT 13 (+1) (11 base, +2 race) WIS 18 (+4) (16 base, +2 level) CHA 08 (-1) (8 base) Miscellaneous Statistics Hit Points: 47 (8 HD) Armor Class (Normal): 19 [10 Base, +2 Dex, +4 Armor, +1 Shield] Armor Class (Touch): 12 [10 Base, +2 Dex] Armor Class (Flat-Footed): 19 [10 Base, +2 Dex, +4 Armor, +1 Shield] Initiative: +2 Base Attack Bonus: +6/+1 Grapple: +5/+0 Speed (Land): 30 ft Weight Carried: ??.?? lbs, light encumbrance [0-26 (Light), 27-53 (Medium), 54-80 (Heavy)] Saves Fortitude: +7 (Conditional Modifier) Reflex: +4 (Conditional Modifier) Will: +10 (Conditional Modifier) Not subject to magical sleep. Special Attacks & Abilities Strong Aura of Law and Evil Spontaneous Casting of Inflict Spells Darkness Domain Magic Domain Rebuke Undead 2/day Feats Combat ExpertiseLvl 1 (Optional Description) Blind-FightDomain (Optional Description) Weapon FinesseLvl 3 (Optional Description) Combat CastingLvl 6 (Optional Description) Simple Weapons ProficiencyCleric Light Armor ProficiencyCleric Medium Armor ProficiencyCleric Heavy Armor ProficiencyCleric Shield ProficiencyCleric Divine Spells Readied Level 0 [DC 14] Detect Magic, Detect Magic, Guidance, Resistance, Resistance, Resistance Level 1 [DC 15] Doom, Sanctuary, Sanctuary, Shield of Faith, Shield of Faith, Obscuring MistBonus Level 2 [DC 16] Shatter, Bull's Strength, Darkness, Resist Energy, BlindnessBonus Level 3 [DC 17] Bestow Curse, Dispel Magic, Dispel Magic, Imbue with Spell Ability, BlacklightBonus Level 4 [DC 18] Spell Immunity, Freedom of Movement, Armor of Darkness, Armor of DarknessBonus Spell Levels Available Per Fight: 16 [47 Total Spell Levels / 3, rounded up] Total Spell Levels: 47 [(6 x 0), (5+1 x 1), (4+1 x 2), (4+1 x 3), (3+1x 4)] Caster Level: 8 Skills Total Skill Points: 33 [33 (Cleric)] Languages: Common, Elven, Infernal [1 Racial, 1 Int] Armor Check Penalty: 0 [? Armor, ? Shield, etc] Balance: +2 [2 Dex, -? ACP] Climb: -1 [-1 Str, -? ACP] Concentration: +11 (+4 combat casting) [1 Con, 10 Ranks (10 (Cleric))] Escape Artist: +2 [+2 Dex, -? ACP] Hide: +4 [+2 Dex, 2 Ranks (4 (Cleric)), -? ACP] Jump: -1 [-1 Str, -? ACP, etc] Knowledge (Arcana): +4 [1 Int, 3 Ranks (3 (Cleric))] Knowledge (Religion): +7 [1 Int, 6 Ranks (6 (Cleric))] Knowledge (The Planes): +4 [1 Int, 3 Ranks (3 (Cleric))] Listen: +4 [4 Wis] Move Silently: +2 [2 Dex, -? ACP] Spellcraft: +8 [1 Int, 7 Ranks (7 (Cleric))] Spot: +4 [4 Wis] Swim: -1 [-1 Str, -? ACP] Conditional Modifiers Prefight Actions xxxxx [font=courier new]Equipment Worn and Carried Basic Outfit [ lbs] [0 gp] Mithral Chain Shirt [12.5 lbs][1400 gp] Darkwood Light Shield The magic domain is obvious with access to arcane spells like fly. (BTW, I'm not quite clear with the domain's restrictions) Darkness has the awesome Armor of Darkness and Blacklight. And it fits storywise perfectly (if you remember the old Jonathon, he was a cleric with Darkness domain). The bloodline is just for fun.
Erithmu 01-15-07, 03:27 PM	Couple of minor considerations: 1: looks like you have Gray Elf as the race due to the racial bonuses, but you can easily move some stuff around to get it to work as you have listed 2: You can't prepare domain spells in normal slots (ie: no second casting of Armor of Darkness.) 3: You haven't included the bloodline bonuses Comments: Judging from the low str score and no immediate melee weapons I ask the following question: Why have 3 melee related feats on a character that does not appear to be going anywhere near melee?
Zevox 01-15-07, 03:41 PM	Hm, not many errors to note. You seem to have stats for a Gray Elf, but the race and type say Human. If it is a Gray Elf, perhaps you should reconsider the race - the ability adjustments don't help you with this arrangement (a Human could get the same stats just by removing points from the ones with a negative Gray Elf modifier and putting them in the ones with a positive one). Unless the sleep immunity, +2 to saves vs enchantments, and skill bonuses are worth it to you, another race would probably be better. The Mithril Chain Shirt is only 1,100 gp, not 1,400. It (and the darkwood shield) will impose an ASF on any arcane scrolls she uses, just to make sure you're aware. She can't prepare two Armor of Darkness castings - since its not a typical Cleric spell, she can only prepare it in her domain slot. You may want to reconsider preparing Shatter, since it doesn't work on magical items. Zevox
TheMagister 01-15-07, 03:46 PM	If you're thinking of having her cast Blacklight on Jonathon, consider that (unless you morph him into a bat), Jon couldn't see through the AoE. Other than that; what Zev and 'Rith said. =) TM
Always-Late 01-15-07, 11:05 PM	Just checking: A Druid needs to go on a Quest to recieve an animal companion, a Sorceror/Wizrd needs to go on a Quest to recieve a familiar, rcorrect?
NiQil 01-15-07, 11:15 PM	Just checking: A Druid needs to go on a Quest to recieve an animal companion, a Sorceror/Wizrd needs to go on a Quest to recieve a familiar, rcorrect? No, and no. The rules entry states that quests are only required if the class entry does not state how to gain the ally otherwise. In the case of a druid, a 24 ritual is required....a wizard pays a cost for their familiar, etc.
Zevox 01-15-07, 11:47 PM	Ironically, the only class allies actually affected by that rule are two we've never seen before here - the Shadowdancer's Shadow Companion and the Blackguard's Fiendish Servant (and Undead Companion if high enough Paladin level). Zevox
Always-Late 01-16-07, 12:36 AM	One more quick question on ally creation; if you have an animal companion or a bought animal, do you have to train tricks to it, or can you start out with it knowing tricks?
Erithmu 01-16-07, 12:40 AM	At character creation the companion can have tricks learned, if you pick one up mid career then you have to train the critter.
Zevox 01-16-07, 12:41 AM	One more quick question on ally creation; if you have an animal companion or a bought animal, do you have to train tricks to it, or can you start out with it knowing tricks? An animal companion needs to be trained, but you are assumed to have an infinite amount of time to do it before becoming an arena gladiator - in other words, before your first fight - so as long as your handle animal modifier meets the DC to train the tricks using Take 10 you can have them know whatever you wish from the start basically. And of course as per core rules their bonus tricks are free automatically with no need for training. A bought animal from the basic (PHB/SRD) list starts knowing an appropriate trick package (combat riding for horses, guarding for guard dogs, etc). A bought animal from our "Exotic Mounts" list does not and needs to be trained (either by you via Handle Animal or through paying for someone else to train it). Zevox
Abyssal Stalker 01-16-07, 08:41 AM	Couple of minor considerations: 1: looks like you have Gray Elf as the race due to the racial bonuses, but you can easily move some stuff around to get it to work as you have listed 2: You can't prepare domain spells in normal slots (ie: no second casting of Armor of Darkness.) 3: You haven't included the bloodline bonuses Comments: Judging from the low str score and no immediate melee weapons I ask the following question: Why have 3 melee related feats on a character that does not appear to be going anywhere near melee? I originally had human as her race, but then I swapped to elf for darkvision. I just can't imagine a vampire with a cohort that can't see in the dark. I have always thought that domain spells are added to the cleric's spell list, but I see that this isn't the case. There it is in the SRD. Odd. Yep, there's still a lot of checking. I'm still tweaking the basic idea so I haven't been thorough with everything. Feat selection is actually the biggest question at the moment. I'm expecting that she must be able to go near melee at least, because of several short-range spells. And she must be able to cast Inflict Wounds on Jonathon if needed. Better ideas for feats are welcome! Hm, not many errors to note. You seem to have stats for a Gray Elf, but the race and type say Human. If it is a Gray Elf, perhaps you should reconsider the race - the ability adjustments don't help you with this arrangement (a Human could get the same stats just by removing points from the ones with a negative Gray Elf modifier and putting them in the ones with a positive one). Unless the sleep immunity, +2 to saves vs enchantments, and skill bonuses are worth it to you, another race would probably be better. The Mithril Chain Shirt is only 1,100 gp, not 1,400. It (and the darkwood shield) will impose an ASF on any arcane scrolls she uses, just to make sure you're aware. She can't prepare two Armor of Darkness castings - since its not a typical Cleric spell, she can only prepare it in her domain slot. You may want to reconsider preparing Shatter, since it doesn't work on magical items. ZevoxDarkvision is the key ability in the choice of race. There might be a better one, but the 13 INT was necessary for combat expertise. ASF affects arcane scrolls? That's new, thanks for pointing out. Shatter is my not-so secret weapon against dirty vampire weakness abusers... Mirrors, holy symbols, etc... Allthough repelling a vampire isn't an effective tactic, because you need to do it actively. If you're thinking of having her cast Blacklight on Jonathon, consider that (unless you morph him into a bat), Jon couldn't see through the AoE. Other than that; what Zev and 'Rith said. =) TMOops... I might need to reconsider that :)
Erithmu 01-16-07, 09:23 AM	I originally had human as her race, but then I swapped to elf for darkvision. I just can't imagine a vampire with a cohort that can't see in the dark. Elves get Low light vision not darkvision
Caterane 01-16-07, 10:43 AM	Hi guys, I'm back from vacation. I'll try to read and catch up on everything tomorow. Same for updating the board. Have to run for now...
TheMagister 01-16-07, 10:53 AM	Hi guys, I'm back from vacation. I'll try to read and catch up on everything tomorow. Same for updating the board. Have to run for now... Good to see you again! Hope you had a good time. TM
Abyssal Stalker 01-16-07, 12:20 PM	Elves get Low light vision not darkvision I don't know what I was thinking. I really should've been sleeping, not doing a character... :)
McJarvis 01-16-07, 01:25 PM	The Artificer of Gladius(ECL 3) would like to do a Miniquest to level up. The story of this quest is not terribly important, though an obvious hook would be his inherent curiosity of all things magic. :) EL 1 MQ
MindWandererB 01-16-07, 04:04 PM	Interesting Rules of the Game just came out that overturns a standing rule of ours. According to it, an animal using the "defend" trick will attack any foe, even outsiders, undead, etc. in fulfilment of that trick, even if not trained to attack that sort of creature.
Etiquette_Gnome 01-16-07, 09:10 PM	Could I get any advice as to what feat to choose for my generalist wizard?
Always-Late 01-16-07, 09:14 PM	And while you're on that, a summoner druid?
Etiquette_Gnome 01-16-07, 09:18 PM	If you want to focus on the summoning aspect, Augment Summoning is a good standby (Spell Focus - Conjuration is a prereq). I'm not exactly certain how many druids actually bother to take Natural Spell, since it will see no use until level 5 and then it might almost be better to wait until level 6 to take it; but as I haven't made a druid for the CoCo, that's up for debate.
Zevox 01-16-07, 09:33 PM	I'm not exactly certain how many druids actually bother to take Natural Spell, since it will see no use until level 5 and then it might almost be better to wait until level 6 to take it; but as I haven't made a druid for the CoCo, that's up for debate. Considering you need to have the Wild Shape class ability to take the Natural Spell feat to begin with, thats not even a question until at least level 6. Zevox
McJarvis 01-16-07, 09:37 PM	If you want to focus on the summoning aspect, Augment Summoning is a good standby (Spell Focus - Conjuration is a prereq). I'm not exactly certain how many druids actually bother to take Natural Spell, since it will see no use until level 5 and then it might almost be better to wait until level 6 to take it; but as I haven't made a druid for the CoCo, that's up for debate. That aside, Natural Spell requires Wild Shape, so Druids can't even take it until 5 anyway. edit-> Darn that Zevox for stealing my thunder! *shakes cartoony fist* Could I get any advice as to what feat to choose for my generalist wizard? That really depends on what kind of path you're taking. Obviously you're not going to be a Red Wizard.... If Loremaster-> Craft Wondrous Item or the skill focus If Archmage-> Maybe you could get that skill focus out of the way, or just take a spell focus in one of the two schools you'll eventually get a focus in. If other-> I've been having alot of fun with Imp Unarmed Strike/Deflect arrows on my wizard I'm running right now.(instead of the usual spell focus/greater spell focus) Other than that metamagic feats are worth looking at....especially leading up to energy substitution or subdual substitution(if you plan on dealing direct damage)
Etiquette_Gnome 01-16-07, 10:10 PM	I think I'm going to try to shoot for the Loremaster, probably pick up the Skill Focus feat at level 6 while I'm at it. I'm thinking I'll want that energy substitution as soon as I'm able to cast 3rd level spells, so it looks like I'm taking Empower Spell now. Oh, and I never got an answer as to whether we're allowed to sell our spellbooks. Gauging by the cost for access to spellbooks (without scribing), I would guess it would be 25gp per spell level per spell greater than cantrips were it to be allowed.
Zevox 01-17-07, 12:34 AM	I don't know what I was thinking. I really should've been sleeping, not doing a character... :) Just to give you a hand, possible (LA+0) races that would give you Darkvision: Xeph: Matches your current version pretty well. Loses the int bonus and con loss of the Grey Elf, which just means you shift 2 points from con to int to achieve the same ability score. Loses the Elf skill bonuses and +2 vs enchantments, but gains +1 to all saves vs spells/powers and the Burst ability for a speed boost (nice if you want to use a lot of touch spells). Goblin: Same as the Xeph when it comes to ability scores, except you also get -2 cha, which might be a problem with Ego Whip out there (if they decide to take out your ally instead of you, that is). Small size is nice for the AC and attack bonus, but watch out for grappling (though Freedom of Movement solves that handily). Perhaps you could even get some use out of the racial +4 to ride checks too. Deep Halfling: Much like Goblins without the charisma loss and ride and MS bonuses, but you also get +1 to all saves, +2 listen, and a few other miscellaneous rarely-used benefits, but also a base speed of only 20ft instead of 30ft. Half-Orc: Probably not as good as the above three suggestions here. Would require redoing the ability scores due to the strength bonus and int loss, and doesn't really bring anything else useful, plus it has the -2 charisma which is again an ego whip hazard. Dwarves: Good for your ability scores, since you only gain to stat that you want, no losses to anything but charisma, so you could give her a higher score elsewhere or just counterbalance the charisma loss if you really want. Deep Dwarves probably fit best - longer-range Darkvision (90ft), Light Sensitivity (hows that for Vampire flavor?), and better save bonuses vs magic and poison than regular Dwarves, without losing anything they have to begin with. The problem of course is the lower speed, which is bad for touch spell users. Orc: Eh, its got Darkvision and Light Sensitivity for nice flavor, but the ability scores just don't seem to fit what you want. Kobold: Eh, right. Well, they don't lose speed in spite of being small, but -4 str and -2 con for only +2 dex seems like a big hit here. Light Sensitivity is nice flavor, and +1 natural armor is okay, but the skill bonuses are all it has otherwise, and they're useless for the arena. Personally, I'd probably go with a Xeph or Goblin if speed is an issue, or Deep Dwarf or Deep Halfling if not (basically, pick a size and speed ;) ). Hope this helps you at least a little :) . Zevox
Abyssal Stalker 01-17-07, 02:04 AM	Thanks for going through all that trouble! I think I'll go with the Xeph, allthough psionic races are a bit unfamiliar to me. The naturally psionic -feature qualifies her for psionic feats, right? The other races are out of the question because I'd like her to be human-like. (I know I can claim anything in the name of flavor, but I try to avoid that...) And the reduced speed isn't for my liking with this character.
Zevox 01-17-07, 07:40 AM	Thanks for going through all that trouble! I think I'll go with the Xeph, allthough psionic races are a bit unfamiliar to me. The naturally psionic -feature qualifies her for psionic feats, right? The other races are out of the question because I'd like her to be human-like. (I know I can claim anything in the name of flavor, but I try to avoid that...) And the reduced speed isn't for my liking with this character. No trouble at all :) . And yes, being naturally psionic does indeed do that - I'd forgotten about that when I perused those last night. Sounds like a good fit then. Glad I could help. Zevox
UserNamer 01-17-07, 10:53 AM	In addition to an enhancement bonus, armor may have special abilities. Special abilities usually count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of an item, but do not improve AC. A suit of armor cannot have an effective bonus (enhancement plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A suit of armor with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Do weapons require a +1 enhancement too?
TelinArtho 01-17-07, 10:55 AM	A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. yes.
TelinArtho 01-17-07, 10:56 AM	Interesting Rules of the Game just came out that overturns a standing rule of ours. According to it, an animal using the "defend" trick will attack any foe, even outsiders, undead, etc. in fulfilment of that trick, even if not trained to attack that sort of creature. That's excellent news - since that means Bulgar's Leopold will actually be of some (very limited) use in the dragon quests...
McJarvis 01-17-07, 12:05 PM	The Artificer of Gladius(ECL 3) would like to do a Miniquest to level up. The story of this quest is not terribly important, though an obvious hook would be his inherent curiosity of all things magic. :) EL 1 MQ Quoted for emphasis. I would very much like to do this quest this week. I'll check again before the deadline to see if anyone picked it up.
UserNamer 01-17-07, 12:23 PM	Two more questions: - Is there a miss chane, when shooting with truestrike at a pinpointed invisible opponent? - How is the "Special Power" -tag gained?
Kaigan 01-17-07, 12:27 PM	Hey guys, again. I'm back and I think this time to stay, I've got some reading to do it looks like. To those whose fights I didn't finish in the fall/beginning of winter, I apologize. I had some personal problems going on at the time, which ultimately lead to a failed semester in university :( Anywho, I've made some changes in my life... mainly less WOW, i.e. no more WoW, and I feel I have enough time. So if you get this Cat in time, then I'll pitlord one fight this week, just one, and if you can give me a low level on, that'd be great. I'll write up some characters on the weekend for next week. Well nice to see all of you again, and hope to participate more this time around. Kaigan.
Caterane 01-17-07, 12:34 PM	You can just aswell reactivate your old characters. I have them all on my disc.
TelinArtho 01-17-07, 12:37 PM	Is there a miss chane, when shooting with truestrike at a pinpointed invisible opponent? Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target. Nope.
UserNamer 01-17-07, 12:47 PM	- How is the "Special Power"-tag gained?
TelinArtho 01-17-07, 12:50 PM	- How is the "Special Power"-tag gained? Special Power: Some characters possess rare and exotic abilities that impress audience and gladiators alike. The Character gains +1 to his leadership score. This tag applies to those characters with at least 5 levels in Barbarian, Bard, Paladin, and Soulknife; and for Prestige Classes with at least 3 levels in Arcane Archer, Duelist, Dwarven Defender, Elocater, Hierophant, Metamind, Psion Uncarnate, and Pyrokineticist. Finally, anyone with at least 4 Racial Hitdice or a Level Adjustment of +4 or higher also gains that tag. bang.
Abyssal Stalker 01-17-07, 12:52 PM	You need to have at least 4 racial HD or a +4LA. Edit: Oh, and those Telin mentioned :)
waywreth 01-17-07, 01:00 PM	It would have been shorter to say you have to take levels in the bad core PrCs or have a character debilitating LA. /evil grin
McJarvis 01-17-07, 01:18 PM	It would have been shorter to say you have to take levels in the bad core PrCs or have a character debilitating LA. /evil grin Not all of the bad prestige classes get it ;). And Bards RoXxOrZ!
MindWandererB 01-17-07, 01:21 PM	It would have been shorter to say you have to take levels in the bad core PrCs or have a character debilitating LA. /evil grin Not necessarily. Half-Fiend/Half-Celestial, at +4 LA, are pretty good ones. Lycanthropes with 4 racial HD (apes, deinonychuses, werebats) are not bad, either, and I can think of a couple of good brass dragon builds. Dwarven Defender and Elocator have a lot of potential, too, as might Pyro (as we'll see--we have two or three pyros in the wings that have yet to be tested).
McJarvis 01-17-07, 01:22 PM	As a sidenote-> I have learned much about how I relate to CoCo during the two-week absence from it. For instance: CoCo is much like Caffeine. When I'm doing it I must drink/consume/do something with it at least once every day or so or I go crazy. Once I've been off it for a week or so, though, I'm more or less free of it's grasp. But much like caffeine, I always seem to get hooked on it again even after I manage to kick the habit. Oh COffee how I love thee! /me goes to Starbucks.
hogarth 01-17-07, 01:22 PM	Not all of the bad prestige classes get it ;). And Bards RoXxOrZ! Note: I didn't hear you say "5 levels of Bard RoXxOrZ!"
TelinArtho 01-17-07, 01:23 PM	Infernal Wound (Su): The damage a bearded devil deals with its glaive causes a persistent wound. An injured creature loses 2 additional hit points each round. The wound does not heal naturally and resists healing spells. The continuing hit point loss can be stopped by a DC 16 Heal check, a cure spell, or a heal spell. However, a character attempting to cast a cure spell or a heal spell on a creature damaged by a bearded devil’s glaive must succeed on a DC 16 caster level check, or the spell has no effect on the injured character. A successful Heal check automatically stops the continuing hit point loss as well as restoring hit points. The infernal wound is a supernatural ability of the bearded devil, not of the weapon. The check DC is Constitution-based. Okay, it specifically says that the glaive is not the source of the infernal wound, and that it is a supernatural ability of the bearded devil. Would the infernal wound apply in any of the following situations: a. Another slashing weapon not a glaive b. Any other slashing/piercing weapon c. Any weapon in general d. A non-melee weapon (such as a javelin or bow) e. Natural weapons (note that on the bearded devil's stats - the infernal wound is not in there for the claws) The reason I am asking is because I have a bearded devil in the wings so-to-speak and I want to work out the wonky, ill-worded rules first...
McJarvis 01-17-07, 01:24 PM	Dwarven Defender and Elocator have a lot of potential, too, I feel like Dwarven Defender isn't up to snuff. DR can be had by getting adamantine armor(if you're a dwarf, why not?), defensive stance can be somewhat avoided by the same tactics people use against rage, & it requires that you burn 2 feats on endurance & toughness.(which normally are never taken...to my knowledge) In the end I'd rather take my 2 or 3 feats & go somewhere else....right? (though I have not done that many core fighters, so you'll have to excuse me if I'm wrong....) Ellocater, on the other hand, provides some unique abilities that are not so easily emulated.
MysticMonk2005 01-17-07, 01:30 PM	So I don't suppose anyone knows if Level 10 will be unfreezing anytime soon? I can't recall what number of fighters Cat was waiting for...
McJarvis 01-17-07, 01:34 PM	So I don't suppose anyone knows if Level 10 will be unfreezing anytime soon? I can't recall what number of fighters Cat was waiting for... Once the current World Event for the guilds is completed, there will be an "Iron Man" contest during which ECL's 10->14 will be unfrozen.
TelinArtho 01-17-07, 01:34 PM	Should be soon - note the presence of the "World Event" for the guilds. The rumor is that once it is finished - the Iron Man tournament will happen and following that the Leagues Unfrozen.
Abyssal Stalker 01-17-07, 01:35 PM	So I don't suppose anyone knows if Level 10 will be unfreezing anytime soon? I can't recall what number of fighters Cat was waiting for... Nice to see you. The Iron Man should be starting anytime soon. I think after the World Event (eg. couple weeks). After that the higher leagues should open.
Abyssal Stalker 01-17-07, 01:44 PM	When is the new para-military group added to the guild map? Asran succeeded in his mission to found it at the Plains of Naestitya. Should I have informed someone about it? Edit: There it is.
MysticMonk2005 01-17-07, 01:51 PM	Awsome. I look forward to breaking the Great Pard Longfellow, second highest level fighter in the arena, out for some good ol' mage killing. MWahahahahah.
MindWandererB 01-17-07, 02:33 PM	It's listed in the text. Cat should add it this week. If he's on the ball. I notice that the Kelartus group isn't up yet, either.
Etiquette_Gnome 01-17-07, 03:03 PM	Tiny question for you guys. Are there any rules concerning the use of vehicles, such as a pulled wagon (or even a chariot)?
MindWandererB 01-17-07, 03:26 PM	It's never come up before, to my knowledge.
McJarvis 01-17-07, 03:27 PM	Tiny question for you guys. Are there any rules concerning the use of vehicles, such as a pulled wagon (or even a chariot)? It's never come up before, to my knowledge. This is likely because there are no rules in Core(to my knowledge) that involve such war vehicles.
Macbrea 01-17-07, 04:02 PM	Actually, it has come up before. It was just run as a person riding in a cart. You can find with the great warrior Gorak at this location. The fight didn't help Gorak win yet another match in his illustrious but ill-fated career.
McJarvis 01-17-07, 04:31 PM	Sigh. Random event this week is bringing back bad memories of a childhood plagued with the tragic failings I had in Monopoly: Right after building all those hotels I always drew the chance card that made me pay. :( edit-> Regarding the random event, how exactly does this work? Is this it? : First week: 1 Unit per regiment dies.(10% chance of famine stopping) Second week: 1 Unit per regiment heals(1 unit comes back/week), 2 die(20% chance of stopping) Third week: 1 Unit per regiment heals, 3 die(30% chance of stopping) etc, etc?
Zevox 01-17-07, 05:11 PM	It would have been shorter to say you have to take levels in the bad core PrCs or have a character debilitating LA. /evil grin Not by any means. I'd like to see you try telling me that Archangel Ixenthor or Morathor's LA+4 is debilitating. :D Plus a few of those PrCs and classes have plenty of potential - Paladin, Arcane Archer, Dwarven Defender, and Elocater certainly, and one could argue for a few of the others too. Zevox
hogarth 01-17-07, 05:27 PM	Not by any means. I'd like to see you try telling me that Archangel Ixenthor or Morathor's LA+4 is debilitating. :D It is debilitating. That's why Ixenthor picked the munchkin-y feat Leadership to compensate. :D
MindWandererB 01-17-07, 05:29 PM	It is debilitating. That's why Ixenthor picked the munchkin-y feat Leadership to compensate. :D As if Cat doesn't pick up every muchkiny thing he can find anyway....
Zevox 01-17-07, 05:57 PM	It is debilitating. That's why Ixenthor picked the munchkin-y feat Leadership to compensate. :D Bah, many of Cat's characters has that feat. His friggin' wizard took, for crying out loud. And Ixenthor had to get to ECL 10 on his own before he could take it to begin with. So again, just try telling me Ixenthor or Morathor are debilitated by that LA. :P Zevox
SauroGrenom 01-17-07, 06:03 PM	If I ever succeed at nerfing the diplomacy allies, then I'll be taking the leadership feat for Raskos as well. CR is always lower than ECL on monsters. Usually class levels are better than racial HD, but CR scales every 2 to 4 HD instead of every level. So monsters (with equipment and customization) usually kick butt on leadership allies.
PhaedrusXY 01-17-07, 08:47 PM	If I wanted to use the Hammer psionic power with a tattoo, would I need a normal psionic tattoo, or a crawling one? The target line says "Creature Touched", so I think it would have to be a crawling tattoo. However, the description says "This power charges your touch with the force of a sledgehammer. A successful melee touch attack deals 1d8 points of bludgeoning damage. This damage is not increased or decreased by your Strength modifier." (I realize this is probably a crappy idea, as the duration is 1 round. Just asking. :P )
Etiquette_Gnome 01-17-07, 09:08 PM	I think I might have to look into doing some Pitlording myself to get the credits to keep up with my dang character creation habit. I just did most of the finishing touches on Krampus Ira, and am now looking for those who could point out any issues or have any suggestions (especially in the realm of expendables, which he's lacking).
Caterane 01-18-07, 04:40 AM	I changed the name of the Weekly to Newspaper of Gladius. The reason is that when a prune comes, I can just say to spare all threads with "of Gladius" in its title. There's no need to call your characters in such a way, like ...the Artificer of Gladius :P
SauroGrenom 01-18-07, 09:05 AM	Keep your head down Cat... Looks like a hurricane is headed your way.
TelinArtho 01-18-07, 12:01 PM	Infernal Wound (Su): The damage a bearded devil deals with its glaive causes a persistent wound. An injured creature loses 2 additional hit points each round. The wound does not heal naturally and resists healing spells. The continuing hit point loss can be stopped by a DC 16 Heal check, a cure spell, or a heal spell. However, a character attempting to cast a cure spell or a heal spell on a creature damaged by a bearded devil’s glaive must succeed on a DC 16 caster level check, or the spell has no effect on the injured character. A successful Heal check automatically stops the continuing hit point loss as well as restoring hit points. The infernal wound is a supernatural ability of the bearded devil, not of the weapon. The check DC is Constitution-based. Okay, it specifically says that the glaive is not the source of the infernal wound, and that it is a supernatural ability of the bearded devil. Would the infernal wound apply in any of the following situations: a. Another slashing weapon not a glaive b. Any other slashing/piercing weapon c. Any weapon in general d. A non-melee weapon (such as a javelin or bow) e. Natural weapons (note that on the bearded devil's stats - the infernal wound is not in there for the claws) The reason I am asking is because I have a bearded devil in the wings so-to-speak and I want to work out the wonky, ill-worded rules first... Anyone want to be adventuresome and come up with some replies? :)
Hirumajoe 01-18-07, 12:35 PM	Okay, it specifically says that the glaive is not the source of the infernal wound, and that it is a supernatural ability of the bearded devil. Would the infernal wound apply in any of the following situations: a. Another slashing weapon not a glaive b. Any other slashing/piercing weapon c. Any weapon in general d. A non-melee weapon (such as a javelin or bow) e. Natural weapons (note that on the bearded devil's stats - the infernal wound is not in there for the claws) The reason I am asking is because I have a bearded devil in the wings so-to-speak and I want to work out the wonky, ill-worded rules first... A. No. B. No. C. No. D. No. (Well, I suppose if he threw his glaive...) E. No. While it specifically says its a supernatural ability of the Devil, not the glaive, thats just indicating if anyone else picks up the weapon, they can't do the same thing. The supernatural ability of the Bearded Devil specifically mentions the weapon Glaive, therefore, he needs to use a Glaive to use said supernatural ability. In the same way you wouldn't allows someone to gain +1 to hit with a dagger when they have Weapon Focus: Longsword. That would be the literal, rules lawyer interpretation.
Hirumajoe 01-18-07, 12:42 PM	In other news: I really need to cut back on the amount of time I've been spending on this board. (I've actually gotten a fair bit done in the past two weeks). Mainly so I can get my Ph.D. thesis written up. So I'm going to be limiting myself to at most 1 hour per week on stuff related to this board until said thesis is done (which given I still have over a hundred pages to write may take awhile). Which pretty much means no pitlording for awhile, and limiting myself to one active character a week. Although I'm wondering if it would better simply to go cold turkey for a month or two and not activate any characters (and thus not dilute the Pitlord supply).
McJarvis 01-18-07, 01:17 PM	I changed the name of the Weekly to Newspaper of Gladius. The reason is that when a prune comes, I can just say to spare all threads with "of Gladius" in its title. There's no need to call your characters in such a way, like ...the Artificer of Gladius :P Oh he knows my ego LOVES it when people mention my characters.... :D
TelinArtho 01-18-07, 01:39 PM	Not that anyone would be looking anyway, but if you are interested in making a non-humanoid Duelist, there are very few choices (before adding character classes anyway). Only the Xill, Bralani, Coatl have Tumble as a class skill and have an ECL. The Coatl's 9HD and +7 LA make it rather undesirable for the possibility, but the Xill at 5HD and +4 LA also needs one class to give it that last +1 BAB to finish up. I am not sure it would be ideal for the Xill however, since it is so rare for it to only wield one weapon (and I'm not sure how the duelist ability would work for it if it also attacked with claws). The Bralani though seems to work almost perfectly. It has Tumble as a class skill, has Outsider BAB progression and 6 HD to start with. This gives him the ability to have all of the prerequisites at the start. The abilities of the bralani would also work well (in my opinion) with the duelist's abilities. Of course, the +5 LA means that you would start at ECL11 and gain the first level of Duelist at ECL12...
UserNamer 01-18-07, 02:38 PM	I think I might have to look into doing some Pitlording myself to get the credits to keep up with my dang character creation habit. I just did most of the finishing touches on Krampus Ira, and am now looking for those who could point out any issues or have any suggestions (especially in the realm of expendables, which he's lacking). - Wand of CLW if you have the money. - Is there any reason for the animal affinity? except the +2 bonus on handle animal? couse that's like nothing, really - shield of faith is always good, so is hide from animals, and jump in some maps. - magic fang could help with your allies a little - and maybe some protection from .... potions - tanglefoot bags
Macbrea 01-18-07, 03:04 PM	If your going to build something that large you could just cross-class tumble instead of forcing it into the mold. You only need to be 7HD to actually have 5 ranks of tumble cross-classed.
TelinArtho 01-18-07, 03:23 PM	A very valid point MacBrea - but it wasn't what I was looking for when I was doing my search. I was looking for options that worked well with non-humanoid races that were able to meet the +6 BAB without working with class levels. Your point does bring up another thought though that I hadn't realized at the time - you don't actually need to cross-class with rogue in order to hit Duelist for ECL8. All this time, I was thinking I would need to dip into it for one level - and I never really liked that idea. However, a straight fighter 7 will meet the prereqs just fine... hmm - I might have to give it some thought... (duelist is just one of the prestige classes I've wanted to try - never seen it used before...)
McJarvis 01-18-07, 03:24 PM	never seen it used before...) For good reason ;)
Zevox 01-18-07, 04:37 PM	never seen it used before...) Like McJarvis said, for good reason. My Featylec was originally going to be a Fighter/Rogue/Duelist, but then I noticed that Shadowdancer was superior in every way as a PrC. If only Duelist let you gain its benefits while wearing light armor at least, then it might be better, but as is... no armor, no shield, uses weaker one-handed weapons only, few decent special abilities... yeah, its just not a good PrC. You're better off with a straight Fighter, honestly. Zevox
MitzaVolchenko 01-18-07, 04:43 PM	I looked at Duelist as a progression from feat-rogue/monk, but overall, I think the class is too weak to be viable in the arena...now in campaign where style points and creativity count, has possibilities.
TheMagister 01-18-07, 04:53 PM	I liked the old Sword and Fist Duelist. When they made the Int to AC bonus incremental and slowed the Precise Strike progression they killed the class. I ran a Swashbuckler/3.0 Duelist and had an absolute blast with it. She was a helluva pistol. Our party mage put up a wall of force to seperate the battlefield. After she dispatched the opponents on her side, I'll give you two guesses what she smooshed up against the wall and showed the other bad guys. DM rolled a Diplomacy check. TM
renlim 01-18-07, 08:01 PM	Could a character use "scent", to help discover an opponents whereabouts, while in a rage/frenzy?
MindWandererB 01-18-07, 08:06 PM	Could a character use "scent", to help discover an opponents whereabouts, while in a rage/frenzy? No reason why not.
Etiquette_Gnome 01-18-07, 08:48 PM	- Wand of CLW if you have the money. - Is there any reason for the animal affinity? except the +2 bonus on handle animal? couse that's like nothing, really - shield of faith is always good, so is hide from animals, and jump in some maps. - magic fang could help with your allies a little - and maybe some protection from .... potions - tanglefoot bags The reason for the Animal Affinity feat is that Krampus doesn't have a +10 modifier to Handle Animal without it, even with maximum ranks, which I need in order to train my animals for everything I need. After buying all of the allies I wanted and some of the related gear for their use, I'm discovering that I apparently don't have enough money for any expendables. I suppose I might be able to afford some expendables it were I to skip on buying Dapp and the shortbow and pay for it on the second 3FC.
MindWandererB 01-19-07, 01:03 AM	The reason for the Animal Affinity feat is that Krampus doesn't have a +10 modifier to Handle Animal without it, even with maximum ranks, which I need in order to train my animals for everything I need. After buying all of the allies I wanted and some of the related gear for their use, I'm discovering that I apparently don't have enough money for any expendables. I suppose I might be able to afford some expendables it were I to skip on buying Dapp and the shortbow and pay for it on the second 3FC. I'd sooner pay an NPC to do my training for me than spend an entire feat on it.
Etiquette_Gnome 01-19-07, 02:26 AM	Since it costs 50gp per trick, and I have half a dozen donkeys...I think that full combat training would be a bit expensive. Now, if I could somehow pay for the services of an animal tender that would provide me the Aid Another bonus (would cost 37.8gp for the time it would take, ~25gp if a laborer works since Take 10 is all I need), then I'd go for that. But I don't think that's allowed.
Zevox 01-19-07, 03:14 AM	Even if you absolutely need that HA skill boost, its probably better to take Skill Focus (Handle Animal) if you're not going to use ride. If you want to get the most use out of Animal Affinity, you need to be using both of those skills (see my Ceilia Durrol, for instance). If you're just using one of them, I'd say go for skill focus since its another +1 to the skill above what Animal Affinity gives. And particularly with Handle Animal, that could be pretty useful for allies gained from that skill later on. Zevox
Etiquette_Gnome 01-19-07, 03:21 AM	Dag nab it, I just realized that I dropped Mounted Combat for Animal Affinity...
hogarth 01-19-07, 08:37 AM	Since it costs 50gp per trick, and I have half a dozen donkeys...I think that full combat training would be a bit expensive. According to the Rules of Gladius, allies purchased from the PHB list come pre-trained for free. It doesn't cost you a cent! (Or a skill rank!)
Etiquette_Gnome 01-19-07, 10:12 AM	But what have they been trained, the standard combat package, or something of my choosing (up to six tricks, in the case of the donkey)? Granted, this does make life a heck of a lot easier for me.
hogarth 01-19-07, 10:51 AM	But what have they been trained, the standard combat package, or something of my choosing (up to six tricks, in the case of the donkey)? Granted, this does make life a heck of a lot easier for me. Well, I've been assuming that they're trained with whatever you want. One of my characters has 12 of the finest wrestling donkeys that money can buy, for instance.
Caterane 01-19-07, 11:25 AM	Keep your head down Cat... Looks like a hurricane is headed your way. Don't worry. Our houses are built with the British Royal Air Force and Russian T90S Tanks in mind :D
SauroGrenom 01-19-07, 11:59 AM	Don't worry. Our houses are built with the British Royal Air Force and Russian T90S Tanks in mind :D LOL Silly me. I should have known that a little Whirlwind spell is nothing Cat can't handle.
Caterane 01-19-07, 12:57 PM	My campaign, Warriors of Light, will soon continue. The problem is that two of our players, Pittbull and Huan, have vanished. I hope that both return but I expect at least one of them not to and that's why I am looking for a new recruit. Requirements: 5° Entry Payment as with all campaigns Your character must be ECL 9 or 10, preferably not evil You have to read the campaign from Act 2 on, and a summary of Act 0 and 1 Frequent, ie DAILY postings! I don't kill you if you post every other day but it should hold some good RP then. Alright, anyone interested? PS: For simplicities sake, it will be Part II of the campaign, ie technically a 'new' campaign which means Guilds will benefit from their characters being in there if you solve the campaign.
Erithmu 01-19-07, 02:04 PM	My campaign, Warriors of Light, will soon continue. The problem is that two of our players, Pittbull and Huan, have vanished. I hope that both return but I expect at least one of them not to and that's why I am looking for a new recruit. Requirements: 5° Entry Payment as with all campaigns Your character must be ECL 9 or 10, preferably not evil You have to read the campaign from Act 2 on, and a summary of Act 0 and 1 Frequent, ie DAILY postings! I don't kill you if you post every other day but it should hold some good RP then. Alright, anyone interested? PS: For simplicities sake, it will be Part II of the campaign, ie technically a 'new' campaign which means Guilds will benefit from their characters being in there if you solve the campaign.Full casters would be appreciated, especially someone with healing if we lose our cleric. The three remaining members are all front line smashers (Ignatius, Kracknol, Telveran)
SauroGrenom 01-19-07, 02:25 PM	Cat, I could craft a new character just for this campaign. A psion perhaps, or a wizard elf paragon or a psionic unbodied. I have that cleric build that I could use (Bill the Pizza Guy) if I level him up a few levels and start out at ECL9 or 10. I've got credits to burn, so no problem with starting a new high credit cost character. The only issue is if you want to have two characters in the campaign run by the same player. Also if I spend a bunch of credits to start a new ECL10, I'd like to see the character level beyond ECL10. So that would be after the higher leagues open up.
Erithmu 01-19-07, 02:28 PM	Cat, I could craft a new character just for this campaign. A psion perhaps, or a wizard elf paragon or a psionic unbodied. I have that cleric build that I could use (Bill the Pizza Guy) if I level him up a few levels and start out at ECL9 or 10. I've got credits to burn, so no problem with starting a new high credit cost character. The only issue is if you want to have two characters in the campaign run by the same player. Also if I spend a bunch of credits to start a new ECL10, I'd like to see the character level beyond ECL10. So that would be after the higher leagues open up.Rules against it unfortunately ... so it wont work...
TelinArtho 01-19-07, 02:31 PM	Well Kraegin's level 10... oh but he's evil... Sir Valkin would be the right level - but of course, he's on a mission for three weeks. He's also another front-line smasher - but he does have enough for healing between fights (just not during...)
Caterane 01-19-07, 03:25 PM	Hm, well it's not too important that he's evil. He's not on the top of my list of preferred characters but you, Telin, as a player certainly are. That might grant us some interesting roleplaying situations with all the CEF members running around. I'll wait a few days before I decide though. PS: Sir Valkin - better not. I don't think the CEF can afford to have all of their top warriors out in the field. Not during such a dangerous time. @Sauro: Uh, please no "Pizza Guy" in the campaign.
MitzaVolchenko 01-19-07, 03:40 PM	I have an ECL 9 build that I am toying with...hmmm...not sure I want to drop that many credits right now...and probably not for a holy roller mission, though I do so want to go on campaign...hmmm...
TelinArtho 01-19-07, 03:41 PM	Well, the paladin in the group would certainly have an issue with Kraegin... (Telveran). If Huan were to come back that would be another who would be at odds with him... Anyway - I was mostly speaking in jest - Kraegin's a full caster, but a healer he is not.
Caterane 01-19-07, 03:51 PM	If there's a greater goal in mind, like stopping a demi-god and an archdevil, then I'm sure Telveran makes an exception. Besides, you're not like companions but fight the same enemy at the same time in the same place. Actually the more I think about it the more I like it. Of course, thinking about all the extra work with your summoned stuff decreases it again.
hogarth 01-19-07, 04:01 PM	If there's a greater goal in mind, like stopping a demi-god and an archdevil, then I'm sure Telveran makes an exception. Hmmm...maybe your copy of the Player's Handbook is missing the page where it says "a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil character, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code". ;)
Caterane 01-19-07, 04:06 PM	...maybe if Kraegin behaves? :smirk: Seriously, I think that's just limiting our RP options. In my own campaigns we had one or the other constellation where a paladin and an evil character have been in the group and it not only worked but also enrichened our adventure. Telin's participation shouldn't fail because of that.
TelinArtho 01-19-07, 04:25 PM	Well, there's the operative isn't it... Kraegin? Behaving? I don't think so... Remember the premise of the Denthian faith is wars fought be temporary armies. Destruction would have been a very applicable domain had I thought about it at the time. Anyways - as I said before - I was just joking when I suggested Kraegin. As fun as a character as he is - I'd rather he stick to things that are along lines that I've already started.
Caterane 01-19-07, 04:51 PM	A pity. Well, anyone else then? Remember that we will soon open the higher leagues which will allow your PC to level beyond ECL 10. Additionally, anyone on the campaign is free to participate in the Iron Man just as if we wouldn't be in the campaign.
MitzaVolchenko 01-19-07, 08:14 PM	I toyed out the idea I had...gonna have Macbrea look it over tomorrow and if it flies, I'll buy in. I could use the RP and a bitof stress relief ;)
Zevox 01-19-07, 11:16 PM	Eh, normally I'd be interested in campaigning just about any time, but unfortunately it looks like none of my characters at that level fit the bill. Archdevil Asran, Eraca Moralta, and Featylec Elendi are the only ones that qualify. Asran and Eraca are evil, and even if they could be worked in I don't want Asran leaving the EHTC for that long, and Eraca probably shouldn't leave TAO. And Featylec is waiting for KU's next campaign to start so he and the other Heroes of Achos can continue their adventures, plus considering he pretty firmly believes that good and evil are nonexistant notions created by mortal minds he probably wouldn't mesh too well with a batch of Paladins and do-gooders like the CEF members. Meh, pity. Dealing with extraplanar beings is always interesting for stories and RP. Oh well. Zevox
MindWandererB 01-19-07, 11:47 PM	As for myself, I'm holding out for Uther's campaign to make a comeback, and I'd rather not be involved in two at once. Even still, I only have two characters in that level range: Besthirah, who is evil and is primarily a TLT-errand girl, and Aerryl, who is also closely tied with TLT and probably wouldn't be too interested in working with a bunch of holier-than-thou paladins and crap anyway. Oh, and Sunstroke, but he's dead and should probably stay that way.
SauroGrenom 01-21-07, 12:11 PM	@Sauro: Uh, please no "Pizza Guy" in the campaign.I'd gladly give the character a different name. I've been toying with a madness domain cleric for a while, and Bill was my attempt at that. That's still two characters by the same player in the campaign (which may be a concern).
Caterane 01-21-07, 01:08 PM	A new name might help but you can't play 2 PCs
Sindorin 01-21-07, 03:25 PM	I could bring Ceres in at level 10 or Sokai at level 9...
MindWandererB 01-21-07, 04:25 PM	@Vath and Sauro: I was reading PSI's world event, and Sauro is wrong. You can only do natural weapon damage with a grapple check if you have Improved Grab. Otherwise it's 1d3 (modified by size mods) + Str. There's a sort of a walkthrough on this in the FAQ.
Vathelokai 01-21-07, 04:53 PM	@Vath and Sauro: I was reading PSI's world event, and Sauro is wrong. You can only do natural weapon damage with a grapple check if you have Improved Grab. Otherwise it's 1d3 (modified by size mods) + Str. There's a sort of a walkthrough on this in the FAQ. I tried to download a new copy of the FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a), but I keep getting a 404 error. Anyone feel like copy/pasting the relevant section for me? I looked in the srd, and this isn't mentioned under the improved grab special ability.
SauroGrenom 01-21-07, 04:55 PM	Well I just read the FAQ and I don't think this is stated in there at all. The relevant sections are as follows:A creature that chooses to make grapple checks in place of attacks—that is, to damage its opponent, escape from the grapple, move, pin its opponent, or use its opponent’s weapon—is allowed one grapple check for every attack that its base attack bonus would allow (even if it doesn’t normally make multiple attacks in this manner). These attacks deal damage as an unarmed strike made by a creature of that size (1d3 for Medium, 1d4 for Large, 1d6 for Huge, and so forth, plus its Strength modifier). The underlined section applies to grapple checks made in the grapple using BAB to make grapple checks in place of attacks. Yaurl isn't making a grapple check in place of an attack. He is making a grapple check to initiate a grapple, so it doesn't realy apply.
SauroGrenom 01-21-07, 04:56 PM	How many attacks does a creature with multiple natural weapons get while it’s grappling? How many grapple checks can it make in a round? Under normal circumstances, a creature can can attack with only one of its natural weapons while grappling (and it takes a –4 penalty on such attacks; PH 156). A grappling dire bear can attack with either a claw or its bite. The rake special attack gives the creature “two additional claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe” (and which don’t take the normal –4 penalty to such attacks; MM 314). A creature that chooses to make grapple checks in place of attacks—that is, to damage its opponent, escape from the grapple, move, pin its opponent, or use its opponent’s weapon—is allowed one grapple check for every attack that its base attack bonus would allow (even if it doesn’t normally make multiple attacks in this manner). These attacks deal damage as an unarmed strike made by a creature of that size (1d3 for Medium, 1d4 for Large, 1d6 for Huge, and so forth, plus its Strength modifier). A creature with BAB +0 to +5 may make one grapple check in place of an attack, BAB +6 to +10 two, BAB +11 to +15 three, and BAB +16 to +20 four. The dire bear, for example, may make two grapple checks in place of attacks, thanks to its base attack bonus of +9: one using its full BAB and the second using its BAB –5.
Vathelokai 01-21-07, 05:01 PM	Hmmm... What I origionally looked at was the wording of grapple in the SRD.Step 3 Hold. Make an opposed grapple check as a free action. If you succeed, you and your target are now grappling, and you deal damage to the target as if with an unarmed strike. My understanding was that there is no exception to that; the improved grab allows you to bite, then make a grapple check to do more unarmed damage. Another thing; I don't know if you can do a full attack while in a grapple. Anyone have any insight? Grapple says that you can do one 'grapple action' per attack you get from BAB, but it dosn't say if you can do the full round action attack or only a series of standard action attacks. *EDIT* Looking at it close... When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses. Cast a Spell You can attempt to cast a spell while grappling or even while pinned (see below), provided its casting time is no more than 1 standard action, it has no somatic component, and you have in hand any material components or focuses you might need. Any spell that requires precise and careful action is impossible to cast while grappling or being pinned. If the spell is one that you can cast while grappling, you must make a Concentration check (DC 20 + spell level) or lose the spell. You don’t have to make a successful grapple check to cast the spell. That's one way to cast 3-4 spells per round :)
SauroGrenom 01-21-07, 05:09 PM	Hmmm... What I origionally looked at was the wording of grapple in the SRD. My understanding was that there is no exception to that; the improved grab allows you to bite, then make a grapple check to do more unarmed damage. Another thing; I don't know if you can do a full attack while in a grapple. Anyone have any insight? Grapple says that you can do one 'grapple action' per attack you get from BAB, but it dosn't say if you can do the full round action attack or only a series of standard action attacks. Well that's something I hadn't considered. If that's the case Yaurl should probably get two grapple checks (BAB +8) because the FAQ states he should get two grapple checks in place of each "attack". Also Monks Flurry of Blows is a full attack, and they get to use that in a grapple. So I believe you are allowed to make full attacks in a grapple.
Vathelokai 01-21-07, 05:23 PM	So it appears that Yaurl can either take 2 attacks from his BAB or 2 attacks from making a full natural attack while hasted. Seems a bit odd. Am I reading it right?
MindWandererB 01-21-07, 05:24 PM	That's correct. Yaurl should actually be getting 3 grapple checks per round (at BAB +8/+8/+3) because he's Hasted in addition. Edit: Or 2 natural attacks, at a -4 penalty. @Vath: Not quite: When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.And some don't. It's not perfect at specifying which, but it's pretty intuitive.
NiQil 01-21-07, 05:29 PM	BAB is what determines attacks in a grapple. The amount of attacks you get in a grapple is determined by your BAB, or your Flurry progression in the case of a monk. You can make attacks for each attack you would normally be granted in this case. Since a full round action is not something that is listed as an allowed action under the grapple rules, you cannot take a full round action in a grapple. The difference is this: Someone with a BAB of 8 can take two grapple actions to make normal attacks with both at a -4 penalty. In a normal full attack for someone with a BAB of 8, they would get one normal attack, and a second attack at a -5. Keep in mind also that inside a grapple, the rules for actions allowed are different than they are outside of one. Standard actions and full round actions do not work the same in a grapple. The actions allowed in a grapple are very specific, and anything outside of that is not allowed.
MindWandererB 01-21-07, 05:37 PM	I disagree with that interpretation. A grapple check can be made in place of an an attack, and you need to declare a full attack to get multiple attacks. A "full round action" is not an action, but a category of actions. Attacks are listed and, as with all attacks, you get multiple ones only if you have an adequate BAB (or other special ability, like Haste or flurry) and take a full attack. Note also that there are specific examples of standard actions (using Escape Artist) and full-round actions (retrieving a spell component) during a grapple. There is therefore no reason to believe that these categories of action do not exist during a grapple.
NiQil 01-21-07, 05:48 PM	Though you may disagree, that is how it has been ruled here. I give you one of the last rulings LLMC ever made here: Q: Can you pull out an item during a grapple? A: No, it is not on the actions available during a grapple list. This would indicate that you may only perform actions in a grapple that are listed in the grapple rules. I happen to agree with that assessment, as this is what the grapple rules state: When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses. YMMV
MindWandererB 01-21-07, 05:59 PM	I'm not disagreeing with that at all. However, I am disagreeing that a "full attack" is an action. It's a superordinate category of actions. An attack is an action, and it is permitted (by using a standard or full-round action). Clearly, Yaurl can make a grapple check to deal damage under the circumstances, so the action is one that is allowed. The question his how many times he can use it. My argument is that if you get multiple attacks, you can declare a full attack to get them all, regardless of whether you're grappling or not--that's how you get multiple attacks. Yaurl gets three attacks--two from having a high BAB, and one from Haste, the same as he would get if using a manufactured weapon. Grappling must use a defined action type, or it cannot be used in combat. If you say that grappling doesn't use standard or full-round actions (which is contradicted by the Escape and Retrieve spell component options), then when can you do it? Can a monk take a move action and then make multiple grapple attacks? I certainly don't think so.
NiQil 01-21-07, 06:27 PM	Standard, move and full round actions still exist in a grapple, but they are regulated by the list of allowable actions inside a grapple. For instance, can you CDG in a grapple as a full round action? No, because it is not one of the defined actions allowed in a grapple. Can you draw a light weapon as a move action in a grapple? Yes, because it is something allowed by the list of grapple actions. Can you draw a two-handed weapon as a move action in a grapple? No, because this is not allowed under the defined actions of a grapple. Can you use a full round action to TWF in a grapple? No, because this is prohibited by the list of defined actions in a grapple. It sounds like we are sorta pointing at the same thing, just not saying it the same. But that is the point I am trying to get across...the normal action types still exist within a grapple, but are regulated by the list of allowable actions in the grapple rules.
MindWandererB 01-21-07, 08:14 PM	Okay... then why does Haste not add an extra attack when you take a full attack to get multiple grapple attempts? I don't follow that logic.
SauroGrenom 01-21-07, 08:22 PM	So obviously I want my ally in this fight to be able to attack a bunch of times for maximum damage, but putting that aside I've reread all the grapple rules, rules about what is an action, CoCo Court Decisions, and the FAQ on monsters grappling to decide the following. There is a higherarchy of action types and what actually is an action and what is not. There are 7 types of acitons in combat (Standard, Move, Full-Round, Immediate, Swift, Quickened and Free). Standard actions are a class of actions, and an attack is a type of those. This is kind of like how Americans are a group of people, and Texans are subset of those. This heigherarchy of what game elements are included in the others is important for NiQil's position. That's why I bring it up. NiQil notes that a full attack is a type of full round action. While grappling there is a list of allowable actions, and some of them replace an attack (instead of being a standard or move action). The number of times you can use these effects is determined by the number of attack allowed by your BAB (in the same way as determining the number of attacks in a full attack using your BAB). Notice that there is no "full attack" listed as being an option in grapple, nor are full round actions in general allowed. This leads NiQil to deduce that full attacks are not an option while grappling. But there are other things to consider. Notice that a monk is allowed to use flurry of blows in a grapple. This is specificially allowed by the FAQ. Can a monk make disarm, sunder, and trip attacks during her flurry of blows? What about grapple checks? What about bull rushes, overruns, or other special combat maneuvers? As long as every attack is made with one of the monk’s special weapons (that is, weapons allowed as part of a flurry), the monk can perform any special attack that takes the place of a normal attack. She’s free to disarm, sunder, trip, and grapple to her heart’s content. She couldn’t bull rush or overrun (since those don’t use special monk weapons), nor could she aid another (which requires a standard action) or feint (which requires a move action). Also note that a flurry of blows is specificially said to be usable only as a full attack action. Flurry of Blows (Ex): When unarmored, a monk may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing so, she may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a –2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. The resulting modified base attack bonuses are shown in the Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus column on Table: The Monk. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the monk might make before her next action. When a monk reaches 5th level, the penalty lessens to –1, and at 9th level it disappears. A monk must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows.Clearly if the Monk can flurry while grappling, full attack actions must be allowed while grappling. Since this option to full attack is available to monks, and there is no indication that the ability to full attack in a grapple is unique to monks, then we can conclude that full attack actions are allowed while grappling (this also generally makes sense). As another point, the rules that govern number of attacks allowed to a creature with a natural attack are still in place regardless of the creature's status as grappled or not. There is an additional limit placed by the FAQ. Also there is an additional option allowed by the FAQ. As per the ruling in the FAQ, Yaurl (or any creature with a natural attack) can replace any "attack" with grapple checks (based on BAB). But since it is a natural weapon, Yaurl is not granted any additional attacks with the natural weapon by having a high BAB (+8 in this case). Haste is a different matter and it does allow an additional attack since it is not granting that extra attack through increased BAB. So let me work through a few examples to clarify things. In the 1st case assume Yaurl is heading into a grapple. He may replace his "attack" with two grapple checks (Per ruling in FAQ and BAB). Compared to a normal character, in this case Yaurl actually is allowed increased flexibility since he can use a move action, and take a standard action to transform an attack into 2 grapple checks. However if he causes any damage with those grapple checks, he instead causes unarmed strike damage (1d4+9). If Yaurl is hastened and in a grapple with an opponent, he can "full attack" and choose to take grapple checks in place of attacks. This limits him to the number of grapple checks allowed by his BAB (There is no provision allowing more attacks due to haste). So he would be allowed only 2 grapple checks. However Yaurl also can use the "attack and opponent" option using a full attack (or standard attack). Since he is hastened, he can use a full attack to gain 2 attacks (resolved at -4 against opponent's AC). As I read over this, it is a kind of wonky way of dealing with the situation, but as far as I can understand the rules are clear. In the spirit of simplicity and common sence, I'd agree with MWB's take on the question. But in the spirit of following the rules to the letter, what I have written above is more true to what the rules actually state. Note that the FAQ uses the Dire Bear as an example creature. Even the Dire Bear, a creature with Improved Grab, cannot use a natural attack while in a grapple w/o using the "attack your opponent" (with -4 on the roll) option. Even the dire bear will cause unarmed strike damage on sucessfull grapple checks.
hogarth 01-21-07, 08:43 PM	Note that the FAQ uses the Dire Bear as an example creature. Even the Dire Bear, a creature with Improved Grab, cannot use a natural attack while in a grapple w/o using the "attack your opponent" (with -4 on the roll) option. Even the dire bear will cause unarmed strike damage on sucessfull grapple checks. You're getting two methods of starting a grapple confused: a) A dire bear could make a touch attack to start a grapple. This would provoke an attack of opportunity. Then it would do unarmed damage on grapple checks. b) A dire bear could start a grapple by making a successful claw attack followed by a grapple check (since it has the Improved Grab ability). Then it does claw damage with a successful grapple check as pointed out in the Improved Grab ability. ("If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold.")
MindWandererB 01-21-07, 09:10 PM	To clarify what hogarth just said: the bear would do claw damage if it started the grapple with the claw+Improved Grab, and unarmed strike damage if it started the grapple in the traditional manner. As for Haste, I condider it a special situation. Haste adds an attack when you take a full attack, and you (can) use a full attack when you grapple. I don't think it was their job to mention every single way you could add an attack to your routine.
Eluria 01-21-07, 09:18 PM	Hi guys. I have been suffering from tabletop withdrawal recently due to a move to a new city. The boards, and CoCo in particular, have been a breath of ... welcome, old air? I decided that rather than watch and read the battles from afar, I may as well dive in headfirst. Here goes: Qwogi Drellfarrow Please let me know if you have any issues or constructive (or even destructive) criticism. Mostly, if things are kosher with the various CoCo modified rules. Thanks, and good fighting!
NiQil 01-21-07, 09:27 PM	Clearly if the Monk can flurry while grappling, full attack actions must be allowed while grappling. Since this option to full attack is available to monks, and there is no indication that the ability to full attack in a grapple is unique to monks, then we can conclude that full attack actions are allowed while grappling (this also generally makes sense). This is not true. The monk is a specifically listed exception to the normal grapple rules in being allowed to use it's flurry attack progression in place of it's normal BAB attack progression. This exception to the rule does not mean that all full attack actions are allowed. That would be like saying that because a restaurant that has no posted policy about animals in a restaurant allows a blind person to bring in a seeing-eye dog, all animals are allowed in the restaurant. Here is how it is explained in the Court Decisions: Q: How does grappling work in combination with a monk's Flurry of Blows? A: As per the 3.5 FAQ, a monk may perform any attack or special attack in a Flurry of Blows as long as a special monk weapon that is normally allowed to be used in a flurry is used. Since unarmed strikes are allowed in a flurry, you can make grapple checks using each attack in the Flurry of Blows attack routine. This is the only exception to the ruling that regulates the amount of grapple checks you can make in a round based upon your base attack bonus.
SauroGrenom 01-21-07, 09:46 PM	You're getting two methods of starting a grapple confused: a) A dire bear could make a touch attack to start a grapple. This would provoke an attack of opportunity. Then it would do unarmed damage on grapple checks. b) A dire bear could start a grapple by making a successful claw attack followed by a grapple check (since it has the Improved Grab ability). Then it does claw damage with a successful grapple check as pointed out in the Improved Grab ability. ("If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold.")You're right when starting a grapple, but once the bear is considered to be in a grapple, it can no longer use claw attacks as normal. It is limited to attacking with one natural weapon, and all limits that go along with that. So the claw attack can be used only to initiate a grapple, and in all following rounds the bear uses either grapple checks (with unarmed strike damage) or attack an opponent attack rolls with one natural weapon.
SauroGrenom 01-21-07, 09:56 PM	NiQil, The "exception" you mention appears to be in the wrong place. According to the description of what is a flurry of blows the ability can only be used as part of a full attack action. There is no exception to that requirement. You state that the flurry of blows is a special exception to the rules that relate BAB to the number of grapple checks allowed. That may be true (although I don't realy see that), but it does not release the requirement that using a flurry requires a full attack action in the 1st place. There is no rule or exception that releases that requirement. If we are going to allow flurry of blows in a grapple, we must allow full attack actions in a grapple or edit the monk character class.
hogarth 01-21-07, 09:56 PM	You're right when starting a grapple, but once the bear is considered to be in a grapple, it can no longer use claw attacks as normal. It is limited to attacking with one natural weapon, and all limits that go along with that. So the claw attack can be used only to initiate a grapple, and in all following rounds the bear uses either grapple checks (with unarmed strike damage) or attack an opponent attack rolls with one natural weapon. Why are you ignoring the rules under Improved Grab? They're completely clear: "If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold."
SauroGrenom 01-21-07, 10:14 PM	Why are you ignoring the rules under Improved Grab? They're completely clear: "If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold."Hmm... I see... <Goes off to soak fevered brain in more meds.>
McJarvis 01-21-07, 10:20 PM	Hmm... I see... <Goes off to soak fevered brain in more meds.> They work better if you swallow the pills. Trust me, I've spent many-a-long night with my head stuck in a bath-tub full of pain-killers. B-)
Erithmu 01-21-07, 11:04 PM	Hi guys. I have been suffering from tabletop withdrawal recently due to a move to a new city. The boards, and CoCo in particular, have been a breath of ... welcome, old air? I decided that rather than watch and read the battles from afar, I may as well dive in headfirst. Here goes: Qwogi Drellfarrow Please let me know if you have any issues or constructive (or even destructive) criticism. Mostly, if things are kosher with the various CoCo modified rules. Thanks, and good fighting!Pardon the mess but welcome to the insanity that is the CoCo. I don't have any comments directly related to your character (other than weapon finesse doesn't require that you specify a weapon) but you are picking an archetype that is very difficult to play at low levels, ie: sneaky mage. While you are welcome to give it a whirl be patient with this place, I have noticed that it takes 2 or three characters to get through the ropes of the CoCo (Took me 4 or 5 personally, and I'm still not one of the most agile here.) so I hope that you have fun. @Elders/whoever else is in on the grapple conversation that I'm ignoring - wanna take it to the oracle, I mean .. there are three of ya here already. ;)
MindWandererB 01-22-07, 12:36 AM	Hi guys. I have been suffering from tabletop withdrawal recently due to a move to a new city. The boards, and CoCo in particular, have been a breath of ... welcome, old air? I decided that rather than watch and read the battles from afar, I may as well dive in headfirst. Here goes: Qwogi Drellfarrow Please let me know if you have any issues or constructive (or even destructive) criticism. Mostly, if things are kosher with the various CoCo modified rules. Thanks, and good fighting! Wow. That's pretty darn solid for a first character here. Not for its probable win rate--in that regard, Erithmu is probably right--but for getting all our idiosyncratic rules down. You should fit right in here. The only technical error I can catch is clearly a typo: you make 54 gp as a free activity, not 64. (And the Weapon Finesse, as Erithmu mentioned.) As for giving advice, I do have a few things. I'm not sure why you need 6 scrolls of the same kind, expecially for Mage Armor. You also might want a larger variety of spells--Sleep is particularly potent at your level. Protection from Evil is also nearly a must-have for dealing with summoners, and without Magic Weapon you risk being crippled by Protection from Arrows. Both of those make for good scrolls. Lastly you might want to consider a rank of Knowledge (Local), which happens to be a rogue class skill, and will net you the mighty Alter Self (Troglodyte) as an option in a level or two. I gather you're aiming for Arcane Trickster. We don't actually have any of those in the arena right now, although my Silis Lueria is only a level away. He's never been in a fight, though. So you and I can learn how well this works together.
Sutro 01-22-07, 12:47 AM	Notable is that you should never, ever expect to accomplish a sneak attack with a spell in CoCo. For better or for worse, the standing rule is that casting a spell is a DC 0 to hear it, and hearing it counts as awareness. Even if in the future you planned on combining it with some form of magical darkness, it makes it a DC20 to pinpoint your location. I don't particularly care for these interpretations, but that's how it works here. We recently had a ECL 7 contest-winner with the same general kind of build retire permanently because these obstacles to magical sneak attack aren't really viable to build around.
Zevox 01-22-07, 01:11 AM	For better or for worse, the standing rule is that casting a spell is a DC 0 to hear it, and hearing it counts as awareness. Its DC 0 to hear, true, but that doesn't count as awareness enough to get your dex to AC back (if it did, it would allow deflect arrows to work, which the FAQ explicitly stated hearing the attack does not allow), which is what you'd need to negate the sneak attack. Sneak attack spells are possible, but easily negated by other means (resist energy for starters, though concealment is the big one). As for Poe, IIRC he was retired because of our silly listen rules that make it a DC 0 listen check to hear any attack, basically giving his foes two chances to hear and pinpoint him every time he cast. Pretty hard to hide in those conditions. Zevox
Zevox 01-22-07, 01:18 AM	@ Sauro - Noticed this in Hood's mission, felt I should point it out to you: To answer your question: No. Typical guild missions are run like a normal quest. Hood is not healed between battles, and the limits of the 3FC do not apply. You can use all your PP in the first battle if you want. This is incorrect, or at least the healing part is (not sure about 3FC limits). The Guild rules on missions state: Missions and 3-Fight Cycle: <snip> A positive side effect is that all mission can be started anytime, no matter in which Fight Week the character currently is. The Questlord just takes over any previous Battlelog with the 3FC Info and continues to use it during the mission. Should the character complete his cycle during the quest, he rests, rememorizes, and revitalizes normally. Unlike with a normal quest, a character is completely healed after each battle (just like in a Battle of Gladius); Questlords should come up with a plausible in-game reason. Zevox
Etiquette_Gnome 01-22-07, 01:49 AM	I'm still trying to figure out why on earth it was decided casting a silented spell or manifesting a power would ever be a DC 0 to hear (they give whispering at DC 15, so one would think it wouldn't be any lower than that). Although, there are definitely some other elements which are weird in the rules. For instance, I had no idea people could ever walk this loud, even with gear and stuff. The average fighter, wearing full plate and a tower shield, is at a DC -6 to be heard just walking down the road. He becomes ridiculously easier to hear if he runs, it being a DC -26 to hear him. When you consider the fact that a pitched battle is DC -10, this becomes almost unbelievable. I don't know if this fighter could even shout as loud as he would clanging down that road.
MindWandererB 01-22-07, 02:45 AM	I'm still trying to figure out why on earth it was decided casting a silented spell or manifesting a power would ever be a DC 0 to hear (they give whispering at DC 15, so one would think it wouldn't be any lower than that).It's not. Casting a silented spell is, as you say, silent. However, the effect of that spell may not be silent. For instance, if you cast a silenced Scorching Ray, it makes no noise until this big ol' flame burns through the air. The unfortunate extension is that spells with no visible (or, presumably, auditory) effects are also considered "attacks," by the Invis rules, and thus are also DC 0 to hear. I don't have a good argument as to why those should be silent except for the fact that it makes no logical sense otherwise.
Eluria 01-22-07, 09:14 AM	Wow. That's pretty darn solid for a first character here. Not for its probable win rate--in that regard, Erithmu is probably right--but for getting all our idiosyncratic rules down. You should fit right in here. The only technical error I can catch is clearly a typo: you make 54 gp as a free activity, not 64. (And the Weapon Finesse, as Erithmu mentioned.) Wow, thanks guys. Thanks for all the replies and the welcome. Actually, I have played these arcane trickster types in table-top D&D too, and I realize they have a hard time coming out victorious... I figure, as you said, it's a first character, and if I get frustrated, there's always the good ol' orc barbarian to get back on track. As for giving advice, I do have a few things. I'm not sure why you need 6 scrolls of the same kind, expecially for Mage Armor. You also might want a larger variety of spells--Sleep is particularly potent at your level. Protection from Evil is also nearly a must-have for dealing with summoners, and without Magic Weapon you risk being crippled by Protection from Arrows. Both of those make for good scrolls. Lastly you might want to consider a rank of Knowledge (Local), which happens to be a rogue class skill, and will net you the mighty Alter Self (Troglodyte) as an option in a level or two. That's great advice; thank you! I'll be changing the scrolls, defiinately. I actually had knowledge local originally, and can't for the life of me figure out why those ranks went away. It's great to be getting my feet wet; thanks for all the help and advice; changes forthcoming :)
McJarvis 01-22-07, 10:00 AM	It's not. Casting a silented spell is, as you say, silent. However, the effect of that spell may not be silent. For instance, if you cast a silenced Scorching Ray, it makes no noise until this big ol' flame burns through the air. The problem is, of course, you are letting your imagination describe exactly what the effect of Scorching Ray is & not the game text. All the game text says is that a "Firey ray" shoots out at the target. In my mind I've always envisioned it as a laser(ray) with firey type gradient colors on it.(not that my visualization is any more correct than MWB's: It's just that you can't just sit down and say "this is how I visualize the spell to go off, so it makes this sound to accompany that imagined effect") At any rate, this would be a silent ray since the text doesn't state any sound comes from it. Note that the spell "Fireball" specifically states what kind of sound results from the fireball. And then if you're going to argue that you can obviously see where the ray comes from, then the same should apply to arrows & bolts as well, since for all we know it's just a momentary display & not one that happens for an entire standard action. (and arrows/bolts/thrown weapons are the same, in effect) @EG: Essentially, because the spell is an "attack", it has a listen check of DC 0. Because the spell has a verbal component, the spell has another DC 0 listen check. So it is louder to cast a silenced spell at an enemy than it is to either: 1. shoot a blowgun at an enemy 2. Cast a silenced spell on yourself(which supposedly would take just as much movement on your part) 3. Cast a silenced spell on an ally. All three of which are unhearable. This is all because we've taken the interpretation of "Attack=DC 0 listen check" to the nth degree and applied it to everything that could be considered an attack. I daresay, at this point(because of our strict reading of the rules) we need to say that a silenced/stilled spell, or even a psionic attack that had the manifestation hidden, still requires a DC 0 listen check so long as it was indeed an attack.
hogarth 01-22-07, 10:07 AM	@EG: Essentially, because the spell is an "attack", it has a listen check of DC 0. Because the spell has a verbal component, the spell has a DC 0. So it is louder to cast a silenced spell at an enemy than it is to either: 1. shoot a blowgun at an enemy 2. Cast a silenced spell on yourself(which supposedly would take just as much movement on your part) 3. Cast a silenced spell on an ally. All three of which are unhearable. Don't you get it? It has nothing to do with the actual sound the attack makes. It has to do with the fact that if you're making an attack, you have to make a bad-ass quip at the same time. Example: -A cleric casts a silent Cure Light Wounds on his buddy. Nothing needs to be said. -The same cleric casts a silent Cure Light Wounds on an undead creature. He's required to accompany it by saying "What's a nice ghoul like you doing in a place like this?" Understand the difference?
McJarvis 01-22-07, 10:09 AM	Don't you get it? It has nothing to do with the actual sound the attack makes. It has to do with the fact that if you're making an attack, you have to make a bad-ass quip at the same time. Example: -A cleric casts a silent Cure Light Wounds on his buddy. Nothing needs to be said. -The same cleric casts a silent Cure Light Wounds on an undead creature. He's required to accompany it by saying "What's a nice ghoul like you doing in a place like this?" Understand the difference? LOL(in the literal sense...) At the very least I understand that you and I would be good friends at the table-top. :)
Maraxus 01-22-07, 01:08 PM	Wow, I just noticed, that the Caven Map is unsymetrical. Starting box B has one Stature one place of where it is in the other boxes. Looks totally unintentional. Should I fix it?
McJarvis 01-22-07, 01:10 PM	Wow, I just noticed, that the Caven Map is unsymetrical. Starting box B has one Stature one place of where it is in the other boxes. Looks totally unintentional. Should I fix it? The sewer map is unsymetrical as well. One of the hallways on the north/south sides needs to be moved to the other side of the water-stream.
Macbrea 01-22-07, 01:28 PM	Anyone want to look over Varsh before I activate him. :)
hogarth 01-22-07, 01:37 PM	Anyone want to look over Varsh before I activate him. :) He stinks. :D So what's the strategy -- you hope to roll more natural 20s than the other guy?
TelinArtho 01-22-07, 01:39 PM	Not only are you hunting for 20s, you are forcing your opponent? Looks like fun...
Macbrea 01-22-07, 01:40 PM	He is taking fighter at next level which will give him proficiencies in those items he is missing. I just don't feel like spending the extra 5 credits for it. Right now, he is suffering from non-proficiency in armor and shield.
TelinArtho 01-22-07, 01:42 PM	I think his ACP is wrong - shouldn't it be -14 (-5 for armor, -9 for shield)?
Macbrea 01-22-07, 01:45 PM	Ah. your correct.. thanks.. The goal should be obvious on leveling one time. Level 4 One Piece Admantine Heavy Mace, -11 [-12] melee, 1d8 + 4 Bludgeoning, Crit 20/x2 [Mace +3 Str, +1 BAB, +0 Size -5 Nonprof Armor +1 enh-11 Non Prof Tower shield] Bite, -14 [-15] melee, 1d4 + 1 S/B/P Crit 20/x2 [Bite +3 Str, +1 BAB, +0 Size -2 secondary -5 Nonprof Armor -11 Non Prof Tower shield ] Level 5 One Piece Admantine Heavy Mace, +4 [+1] melee, 1d8 + 4 [+1 PA] Bludgeoning, Crit 20/x2 [Mace +3 Str, +2 BAB, +0 Size +1 enh -2 Tower shield] Bite, +1 [-1] melee, 1d4 + 1 S/B/P Crit 20/x2 [Bite +3 Str, +2 BAB, +0 Size -2 secondary -2 Tower shield]
TelinArtho 01-22-07, 01:48 PM	Ok - then my last question - why the mace? If you are picking up fighter in the next level anyway - why not Battleaxe for those exceptionally rare criticals? Or flail so you can try the occasional trip or disarm? Just seems like 3000gp for a simple weapon is a little much...
Macbrea 01-22-07, 01:51 PM	Actually. I should just make that a Dwarven axe. It serves a better choice for the style.
Caterane 01-22-07, 01:51 PM	Anyone want to look over Varsh before I activate him. :) - 12 Balance - 10 Climb - 10 Jump - 23 Swim I hope no one uses the Outmaneuver Package against you lol Edit: Don't want to comment too much on it but with 20ft speed you never get that melee warrior into melee. Not even on the Bathroom Map. And you have to do something for your touch AC. Edit 2: You attack at -14? Like, you roll a 19 and hit AC 5?? What's the trick with this character?
Macbrea 01-22-07, 01:52 PM	What they going to want to get closer? I figure with the 20ft move they can start in melee or at whatever ranged attack they want to. THe mage with magic missile autokills him. But the archer/melee specialist gets to come to melee.
Macbrea 01-22-07, 01:55 PM	And the humorous one to him is actually. The Clang of battle is DC -10 to hear. He has a MS of -12.
TelinArtho 01-22-07, 01:56 PM	Another thing to mention is your Grapple modifier should probably reflect the non-proficiency in armor as well. With his impressive 11 touch AC, I suspect even wizards might be willing to grapple with him...
Macbrea 01-22-07, 01:59 PM	Hmm, interesting....... To spend the extra 5 credits or not... As I am not too worried about it.. just don't have 10 at moment. There Changed it to a Metal-Hafted Admantine Warhammer. Because there is no descriptoin in the PHB or the SRD as to the type of haft that a warhammer has.
TelinArtho 01-22-07, 02:15 PM	On another note, Bulgar has finally reached ECL4. This means two things: He gets to go on another dragon quest and he wants a companion to go with him. Since Gonbow has disappeared for an undisclosed amount of time, I am again looking for a character who would be willing to face insurmountable odds in the aim of gaining great fame and rapport! If Gonbow and, by extension, Jade reappear - the second matter is resolved. However, I am looking for a questlord. The target: Very Young Green Dragon (CR4) Start Date: Either Jan 24 or Jan 31 if possible.
Caterane 01-22-07, 02:18 PM	What they going to want to get closer? I figure with the 20ft move they can start in melee or at whatever ranged attack they want to. THe mage with magic missile autokills him. But the archer/melee specialist gets to come to melee. Look. A wizard, psion, or any other caster just stays at range. An archer will shoot from afar and hope for 20! rolls. You have no chance against these guys. A melee fighter has tricks other than trying to stupidly hit a high AC (trip, grapple, disarm). And how do you kill the fighter or anyone else with an attack modifier of -11? I don't get your concept.
TelinArtho 01-22-07, 02:21 PM	Cat - he already explained that he is just starting at ECL4 to save himself 5 credits. At ECL5, he's picking up a level of fighter and many of the issues on his own to-hit go away (or at least improve by +15). I have considered similar options in order to save myself credits for higher level characters. 10 losses to save myself 5 credits does seem reasonable for some things...
Macbrea 01-22-07, 02:35 PM	At 4th level. I don't plan on winning anything. At 5th, I gain a positive number to my attack bonus. The one level of being at negative is just that.. A wasted level and chance to send other people forward from ECL 4 for my other characters to have opponents. At level 5, I gain a positive attack bonus and proficencies in my weapons and armor.. This ends up pretty much leaving me at 0 from then on out. Because, I should be power attacking and combat expertising to a state that my opponent will always need a 20 to hit me. Casters can beat a fighter without a problem if they are designed well. The straight fighter type runs into a problem with them. The goal by 10th should look like this. Troglodyte Fighter 4/Ranger 3/Horizon walker 1 Feats: Combat expertise1, Power attackf1, Weapon focus(warhammer)F2, Superior Combat Expertise6, Weapon Specialization (warhammer)F4, Cloak Dance9, Assuming a +3 weapon by then. It will be Adamantine Warhammer +1, Shocking, Frost, -3/-8 melee, 1d8+16 + 1d6 electrical + 1d6 cold [+4 str, +1 enh, +1 wpnfocus, +9 BAB, -9 Expertise, -9 power attack] With AC = 10 + 10 Armor + 6 Natural + 9 Expertise + 6 shield +1 defection = 42 AC, Touch AC 20 I can increase my to hit by upto 9 at the cost of my armor for same value.
McJarvis 01-22-07, 02:59 PM	I've heard it said that the Nimbus is treated as the equivalent of True Resurrection for free for all characters after every match. What about cases where True Resurrection either plain out does not work or has a % chance of not working?(Such as with the Barghest?)
MindWandererB 01-22-07, 03:56 PM	I've heard it said that the Nimbus is treated as the equivalent of True Resurrection for free for all characters after every match. What about cases where True Resurrection either plain out does not work or has a % chance of not working?(Such as with the Barghest?) Clearly, we don't worry about that. Like for undead. This is a game, after all--it has to be fun first.
Caterane 01-22-07, 04:58 PM	Aww I was just about to roll the % chance :D j/k
Vathelokai 01-22-07, 08:06 PM	I've heard it said that the Nimbus is treated as the equivalent of True Resurrection for free for all characters after every match. What about cases where True Resurrection either plain out does not work or has a % chance of not working?(Such as with the Barghest?) Auburn (my TAO summoner) is researching the theory that the nimbus is acutally time magic, instead of resurections, since it can 'resurect' objects, outsiders, etc. I used that in a few quests, and it's in Auburn's background info, but havn't followed up on it.
Vathelokai 01-22-07, 08:07 PM	On another note, Bulgar has finally reached ECL4. This means two things: He gets to go on another dragon quest and he wants a companion to go with him. Since Gonbow has disappeared for an undisclosed amount of time, I am again looking for a character who would be willing to face insurmountable odds in the aim of gaining great fame and rapport! If Gonbow and, by extension, Jade reappear - the second matter is resolved. However, I am looking for a questlord. The target: Very Young Green Dragon (CR4) Start Date: Either Jan 24 or Jan 31 if possible. I can pick it up. I'll completely understand if you want to try out some other Questlords (our schedules not matching up did make the first quest drag a bit).
Vathelokai 01-22-07, 08:09 PM	Speaking of which; is anyone interested in running a simple (even plotless) out of cycle miniquest for Zodiac, any time in the next couple weeks? He needs one more fight to level up and get craft wonderous. He's ecl4; was looking for something EL 5-6 (though still technicly beatable).
Hirumajoe 01-22-07, 09:11 PM	Quick question: What are good favored enemies for a Slayer (the psionic prestige class)? If I were to go in theme for Valen Sky, I'd probably go with Illithid or Duergar. However, from a purely powergaming point of view those aren't very likely to show up in the CoCo. So I guess that leaves the usual Elan/Half-Giant/Xephs. Any thoughts on what to grab? I'm thinking Elan personally. Thanks, Hirumajoe
Macbrea 01-22-07, 09:36 PM	You choose any Type creature as per the ranger with the subcategory of (psionic). Example: Giant (psionic) or Humaniod (Elf, Psionic) or Aberrant (psionic)
MysticMonk2005 01-23-07, 12:49 AM	Casters can beat a fighter without a problem if they are designed well. The straight fighter type runs into a problem with them. You people still insist on degrading the mighty straight fighter? Tsk. It has been proven multiple times that pure fighters can take on casters. Auburn (my TAO summoner) is researching the theory that the nimbus is acutally time magic, instead of resurections, since it can 'resurect' objects, outsiders, etc. I used that in a few quests, and it's in Auburn's background info, but havn't followed up on it. Ever heard of the anime Bleach? One of the characters has the power restore things to how they once were. Denying that the damage even happened.
Vathelokai 01-23-07, 12:58 AM	No, havn't seen it. I'll defintely look into it though. Thanks for the tip.
Hirumajoe 01-23-07, 07:55 AM	You choose any Type creature as per the ranger with the subcategory of (psionic). Example: Giant (psionic) or Humaniod (Elf, Psionic) or Aberrant (psionic) Really? That seems like a rather liberal interpretation of the rules. If its true, thats great. I'm going to double check in the oracle of gladius, but thank you for the heads up. In that case, I might just go Aberration (psionic) so I grab Illithids and at least one race that I might see in the CoCo (I.e. Elan). That way I have roleplay and some real use. :)
Abyssal Stalker 01-23-07, 08:00 AM	Really? That seems like a rather liberal interpretation of the rules. If its true, thats great. I'm going to double check in the oracle of gladius, but thank you for the heads up. In that case, I might just go Aberration (psionic) so I grab Illithids and at least one race that I might see in the CoCo (I.e. Elan). That way I have roleplay and some real use. :) Well, that doesn't sound too powerful, so it's probably correct. If you compare it to ranger, it's not as good. Rangers can just pick aberration, which includes aberrations (psionic).
Hirumajoe 01-23-07, 08:04 AM	Well, that doesn't sound too powerful, so it's probably correct. If you compare it to ranger, it's not as good. Rangers can just pick aberration, which includes aberrations (psionic). True, but the bonus does go up much faster than the ranger bonus, but admittedly to only a single target. Also, the class grew out of the Illithid Slayer class which specifically only hunted Illithid. It was generalized because Illithid aren't in the SRD for copyright/Intellectual property reasons I'm guessing. So the original was even more limiting (you don't get to choose). Besides does a full BAB progression, d8 hit point, 9/10 psionic manifester levels class really need all that much more (in addition to the free mindblank all the time at higher levels)? :D
Macbrea 01-23-07, 08:13 AM	Well, that doesn't sound too powerful, so it's probably correct. If you compare it to ranger, it's not as good. Rangers can just pick aberration, which includes aberrations (psionic). What's important about Slayer is that you will normally get there by taking a level of ranger. As a result, you can have the following. Favored Enemy Aberrant +2, Favored Enemy Aberrant (Psionic) +2 Since, they are untyped bonuses they stack.
Hirumajoe 01-23-07, 08:36 AM	What's important about Slayer is that you will normally get there by taking a level of ranger. As a result, you can have the following. Favored Enemy Aberrant +2, Favored Enemy Aberrant (Psionic) +2 Since, they are untyped bonuses they stack. Except for the fact in the Ranger's Favored Enemy description, it specifically states that if an enemy falls under two or more Favored Enemy bonsues, you use the best one. Hmm... On re-reading the slayer and ranger descriptions, they use the same wording, except the slayer is missing the ranger's limited list. If I read the slayer favored enemy description properly, you could choose Humanoid (Psionic) (as opposed to Humanoid (Human, Psionic) as a favored enemy type, since its not restricted to the ranger list. Although I'm pretty sure the CoCo wouldn't allow that. So Aberation (psionic) is probably the way to go. Thanks.
Macbrea 01-23-07, 08:42 AM	Bah.. missed that.. :P Ah, well..
Macbrea 01-23-07, 08:44 AM	Well, subtype isn't a type of psionic creature. I think you would choose a type. So, it should just be Favored Enemy: Aberrant instead of Aberrant (psionic). As the subtype isn't a 'Type'.
MindWandererB 01-23-07, 01:52 PM	Keep in mind that if you choose Aberrations (psionic), that's pretty much just Elans. There are only a couple of those in the arena. Far more common are Giant (psionic), Humanoid (human, psionic), and Humanoid (elf, psionic).
Etiquette_Gnome 01-23-07, 01:58 PM	I just realized something, is there a point in my psion having much in the way of ranks in Psicraft? I can't really think of many situations where having a high psicraft bonus would be worth anything, and with my intelligence I only need a single rank to be able to address any power stones since Take 20 is allowed for that in the pre-fight actions. *ponders requesting 6 ranks moved to Gather Information*
hogarth 01-23-07, 02:02 PM	I never put in more than one rank in Psicraft/Spellcraft. In theory you can determine what powers/spells are being manifested/cast from looking at them, but that's only mildly useful compared some other skills which are extremely useful. I just realized something, is there a point in my psion having much in the way of ranks in Psicraft? I can't really think of many situations where having a high psicraft bonus would be worth anything, and with my intelligence I only need a single rank to be able to address any power stones since Take 20 is allowed for that in the pre-fight actions. *ponders requesting 6 ranks moved to Gather Information*
TelinArtho 01-23-07, 02:06 PM	If you don't foresee the need to be able to counterspell on the fly (other than with dispel magic), then you shouldn't need too many ranks, no.
Etiquette_Gnome 01-23-07, 02:10 PM	How readily can a Psion dispel anyway?
TelinArtho 01-23-07, 02:18 PM	Good point - I didn't realize that Dispel Psionics can't be used for Counterspells as Dispel Magic can. Not even sure if Psionics can be countered... (at the time of manifestation anyway).
McJarvis 01-23-07, 03:28 PM	If I spend mad credits on a character & later decide I want to retire the character, can I transfer the things I paid for to the 2nd version of the character?(so long as I'm using the same stuff?) Examples-> Paying for over ECL 3ness Paying for access to custom UA Rogue, then using custom Rogue again on second character. Paying for custom magic items, then wanting the same custom magic items on the second re-make of the character.
MitzaVolchenko 01-23-07, 03:41 PM	If I spend mad credits on a character & later decide I want to retire the character, can I transfer the things I paid for to the 2nd version of the character?(so long as I'm using the same stuff?) Examples-> Paying for over ECL 3ness Paying for access to custom UA Rogue, then using custom Rogue again on second character. Paying for custom magic items, then wanting the same custom magic items on the second re-make of the character. As I understand it you can pay for a revision with more credits, otherwise the credits are lost.
MindWandererB 01-23-07, 03:46 PM	The exceptions being if you retire the character very, very early in their career, or if the concept becomes defunct due to rules changes/clarifications.
McJarvis 01-23-07, 03:54 PM	The exceptions being if you retire the character very, very early in their career, or if the concept becomes defunct due to rules changes/clarifications. With within their first 3FC? I usually make all my edits within the first 3FC.
MindWandererB 01-23-07, 04:03 PM	It comes down to Cat's call. I think his rule of thumb is that if it's still early enough to allow free changes in the Training Hall, he'll refund the credits if you retire. He might go with a partial refund in a corner case. In other news, I need to have Silis Lueria go on a miniquest next week (Jan. 31) to gain hisself a griffon as a Diplomacy ally. I'd prefer someone who knows his background (i.e. the Achos campaign) to run it, if possible.
Vathelokai 01-23-07, 10:30 PM	So, are there no Guild Reactions this week? Or was it overlooked? I was wondering if I could continue my world event quest yet.
SauroGrenom 01-23-07, 10:53 PM	When you have a hydra targeted by an area effect, do all the heads take damage as independnt creatures? I don't think so, but I wanted to ask. Edit: Duh, it's right there in the monster description.
Vathelokai 01-23-07, 10:57 PM	When you have a hydra targeted by an area effect, do all the heads take damage as independnt creatures? I don't think so, but I wanted to ask. A hydra’s body can be slain just like any other creature’s, but hydras possess fast healing (see below) and are difficult to defeat in this fashion. Any attack that is not (or cannot be) an attempt to sunder a head affects the body. Targeted magical effects cannot sever a hydra’s heads (and thus must be directed at the body) unless they deal slashing damage and could be used to make sunder attempts.
MitzaVolchenko 01-23-07, 10:58 PM	So I am throwing around a crazy notion...unicorn, paladin of freedom. Thoughts?
Zevox 01-23-07, 11:18 PM	Definitely could be done. The DMG list of alternate Paladin Special Mounts includes Unicorn as an option at level 6+, and of course you could always use Leadership if you didn't want to take that many Paladin of Freedom levels. Of course, you could suffer vs flying foes if you're not a competent archer or don't have a way to fly, but that goes without saying I suppose. Zevox
Vathelokai 01-23-07, 11:26 PM	I think Mitza ment Race: Unicorn, Class: Paladin of Freedom Thoughts: Since unicorns are already immune to compulsions and such, that makes the Freedom special immunity to compulsions not worth the credits in my opinion (though it is very cool character concept). We can only hope the teleport ability is useable outside the forest map. I wonder if you can add other enchancements to the unicorns "+3 horn". Like defending or ghost touch? Over all I think it's a cool concept, but other classes (druid, psiwarrior) come to mind as better from a min/max perspective. I'd suggest rhino hide barding and (horse)boots of flying. And something to help the low will save, maybe add SR to the rhino hide barding.
MitzaVolchenko 01-23-07, 11:28 PM	I think Mitza ment Race: Unicorn, Class: Paladin of Freedom Hrrmmm... hehe...yep...I did indeed mean Unicorn as the race.
MitzaVolchenko 01-23-07, 11:43 PM	Additional silly question, if one pays for a permanent spell and it happens to be dispelled in the arena, is it restored after the fight or 3FC? or are the credits/spells gone?
Vathelokai 01-23-07, 11:58 PM	Additional silly question, if one pays for a permanent spell and it happens to be dispelled in the arena, is it restored after the fight or 3FC? or are the credits/spells gone? It's gone. Strange how the nimbus picks and chooses...;)
MindWandererB 01-24-07, 12:10 AM	So, are there no Guild Reactions this week? Or was it overlooked? I was wondering if I could continue my world event quest yet.No reactions this week. You're free to continue, as are Indivara and Raskos. @Sauro: You definitely have it wrong--the heads don't die all due to one area effect. If there were multiple stumps, they'd all be cauterized, but area effects don't damage the heads, only the body. Only slashing (sunder) attacks can damage a head directly.
MitzaVolchenko 01-24-07, 01:56 AM	Best way to deal with a hydra (other than leaving it the heck alone) is to massively damage the body. Trying to kill it one head at a time while it regens is insane.
NiQil 01-24-07, 02:07 AM	Best way to deal with a hydra (other than leaving it the heck alone) is to massively damage the body. Trying to kill it one head at a time while it regens is insane. Heh...one of my funniest TT stories involves a hydra...we were playing a one-shot dungeon that we had made using a random dungeon creater we were testing....the stupid thing put a 7-headed cryo/pyro hydra in a room where it was squeezed. It could only take 5 ft steps laterally. So we just let our 2 tanks stand in the doorway with the cleric behind them both and just them hack away at it with the cleric casting buff after buff on them...it was over in about 6 rounds....and I believe we were around level 4-5 at the time. It turned what should have been a fairly difficult challenge into something super-easy just by taking away the size/reach advantage.
Etiquette_Gnome 01-24-07, 04:41 AM	I was reading some of the rules, and I discovered that I'm allowed one mini-quest per level without having to pay a credit cost. I'm tempted to do this with my psion, but I'm not really sure what I would actually want my questgoal to be. Any suggestions or ideas that I could use? Edit: Heck, I'm tempted to request a few minor changes to Sabra with elements I've yet to use to be able to qualify for Thrallherd in a couple levels (namely switching out a feat & power I never used).
UserNamer 01-24-07, 04:49 AM	Can a centaur use feats like spiritual charge on it's own? And what if it can fly, can it make a spiritual dive for 4x damage?
hogarth 01-24-07, 08:32 AM	Edit: Heck, I'm tempted to request a few minor changes to Sabra with elements I've yet to use to be able to qualify for Thrallherd in a couple levels (namely switching out a feat & power I never used). Because of the way the Core Coliseum works, the Leadership feat (or even just putting ranks in Diplomacy) is about as good as the Thrallherd class so you might as well save yourself the bother. Of course, I've seen Zevox argue in favor of it, but I've noticed his ratio of characters with leadership vs. thrallherds is roughly 3:0, so I took that with a grain of salt.
Etiquette_Gnome 01-24-07, 08:37 AM	One of the benefits I do see with the Thrallherd's thing is that you do not get reduced XP/GP gain...which doesn't matter in the long run because there's no actual expenditure occuring there...
Zevox 01-24-07, 08:42 AM	Of course, I've seen Zevox argue in favor of it, but I've noticed his ratio of characters with leadership vs. thrallherds is roughly 3:0, so I took that with a grain of salt. Thats 2:0, and one of them doesn't even have her cohort yet, thank you very much :P . Zevox
hogarth 01-24-07, 08:45 AM	One of the benefits I do see with the Thrallherd's thing is that you do not get reduced XP/GP gain...which doesn't matter in the long run because there's no actual expenditure occuring there... It does give a small benefit, since the amount of expendables you use per battle is a fixed cost -- any extra money you earn per battle is just gravy. I don't think it's worth losing a manifester level (and most importantly, one level's worth of pp), though.
hogarth 01-24-07, 08:46 AM	Thats 2:0, and one of them doesn't even have her cohort yet, thank you very much :P . Zevox Two is "roughly" equal to three. ;)
Abyssal Stalker 01-24-07, 10:25 AM	Two is "roughly" equal to three. ;) One is "roughly" equal to zero...
Hirumajoe 01-24-07, 10:50 AM	Ok, here's a combo-rific question: Lets say you have the skills and feats to pull off the Ambush and Scout attack skill packages against your opponent, and are in fact the attacker. Let us assume the character is a 11th level Manifester (at least) with the Metamorphosis (4th) (with appropriate knowledge skills), Dimension Door (Psionic)(4th) and Temporal Acceleration Powers (6th). Could he Metamorphosis into something big and mean, like a Troll or Annis Hag (with K:Nature + 14) during the buff round, during the surprise round use Temporal Acceleration as a swift action, dimension door to the opponent's starting box (since he knows which one it is), have the dimension door restriction against actions wear off since 1 round of apparent time passes, then proceed to make an attack/grapple/manifest at the flat footed opponent (while Shaken admittedly). And if he won initiative, get to take another full action before his oponent acts? (Admittedly it costs like 25 power points to do but for an 11th level manifester thats not too bad.)
hogarth 01-24-07, 10:58 AM	Sure, why not? Temporal Acceleration, Metamorphosis and Psionic Dimension Door are all great powers -- why shouldn't they be great together? Ok, here's a combo-rific question: Lets say you have the skills and feats to pull off the Ambush and Scout attack skill packages against your opponent, and are in fact the attacker..[temporal acceleration massacre deleted]
Hirumajoe 01-24-07, 11:01 AM	Sure, why not? Temporal Acceleration, Metamorphosis and Psionic Dimension Door are all great powers -- why shouldn't they be great together? I guess I was wondering if my interpretation on the 1 round of action prevention on Dimension door was correct, and that it does expire so that you can take your standard action in the surprise round. Edit: Nevermind, Dimension door is worded as until your next action, not 1 round so its a moot point.
TwoPi 01-24-07, 12:12 PM	Quick question: My character is listed in the prision but I dont know why, never got a PM or anything and checked the roll calls in the prision thread and I am not on any of them. Can some one help me out here, I tried to PM the PrisionLord but I dont know if that was right or if I sent it to the right person? SO any help for a newbie would be great
TelinArtho 01-24-07, 12:16 PM	I don't see you marked in the prison at all - I think this is a misunderstanding for you. In the character roster, you are in the prison if your name is prefixed with a [P]. In the Rap Sheet of Gladius (in the prison thread), your name will be there all the time, but if you have a violation, there will be a link to the violation next to your name. If you are in prison, it will also prefix your name with a [P] of varying colors (depending on the severity and duration). You should be fine.
TwoPi 01-24-07, 12:19 PM	Ah...well that makes sense then. I was so confuzzled by the whole thing. Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me. Yay for Learning!
UserNamer 01-24-07, 01:24 PM	Can a centaur use feats like spiritual charge on it's own? And what if it can fly, can it make a spiritual dive for 4x damage? please
UserNamer 01-24-07, 01:27 PM	Has anyone heard something from Kaigan? I'm asking this, becouse he's pitlording my character this week and I haven't seen him post anything.
Erithmu 01-24-07, 01:28 PM	Has anyone heard something from Kaigan? I'm asking this, becouse he's pitlording my character this week and I haven't seen him post anything. Clicky
Etiquette_Gnome 01-24-07, 01:30 PM	Yeah, Kaigan said he was unable to run our fight this week and posted our respective tactics for someone else to pick up. Nobody ever said anything, so it looks like it's going to be held over the next week for someone else to run. Edit: Curses, beaten to the posting punch
TelinArtho 01-24-07, 01:30 PM	He posted in the FotW thread that he wouldn't be able to complete the fight due to a family emergency. As far as I know - no one has picked it up - so it'll get held over. As to spiritual charge - it is an item of much debate, but my personal opinion is no. If it were allowed, then a spiritual charge/dive would be x3 with a normal weapon and x4 with a lance.
MindWandererB 01-24-07, 01:31 PM	Can a centaur use feats like spiritual charge on it's own? And what if it can fly, can it make a spiritual dive for 4x damage? I wish I did, but I don't see an error with that. A dive is a form of a charge, Rules of the Game has declared that you can dive with a piercing weapon, so yeah. Lance + Spirited Charge + Dive should result in 4x damage. Ick. As for the simple question of centaurs using Spiritual Charge, the current ruling is yes, they can.
UserNamer 01-24-07, 01:36 PM	I was thinking of a centaur-half dragon, witch would have a speed of 100ft fly, and a +16 on strength. For the Iron Man.
TelinArtho 01-24-07, 01:41 PM	I think I would prefer the ogre half-dragon - with 80ft fly, +18 strength and natural reach... but that's just me... Of course, 4 HD for either one leaves them open to things like color spray (not sleep since the half-dragon removes that...) EDIT - make that 5HD... forgot the Half-dragon is only +3 LA...
Hirumajoe 01-24-07, 01:43 PM	How much would a custom ring of silence cost credit wise and gp wise? I'm thinking command word activated like a ring of invisibility. (Both are 2nd level spells, one dealing with sound, one dealing with sight). I'm presuming it would be cast like the spell, so you could cast it on opponents or on an area, or on yourself. Would it be the 2*3*1800 = 10800? or 20,000 like the ring of invisibility? Would this based on something in the books (i.e a ring of invibility but instead silence) and hence 5 credits or would it be 15 credits for completely custom?
UserNamer 01-24-07, 01:53 PM	I think I would prefer the ogre half-dragon - with 80ft fly, +18 strength and natural reach... but that's just me... Of course, 4 HD for either one leaves them open to things like color spray (not sleep since the half-dragon removes that...) EDIT - make that 5HD... forgot the Half-dragon is only +3 LA... your going to trade 20ft fly, +1bab, +3will and these bonuses: +8str, +4dex, 4con, -2int, +2wis to this: +10str, -2dex, +4con, -4int, -4cha and 2 more natural armor, and natural reach(witch you could get with a weapon). I think this centaur would kick that ogre's ass :p
MindWandererB 01-24-07, 01:54 PM	How much would a custom ring of silence cost credit wise and gp wise? I'm thinking command word activated like a ring of invisibility. (Both are 2nd level spells, one dealing with sound, one dealing with sight). I'm presuming it would be cast like the spell, so you could cast it on opponents or on an area, or on yourself. Would it be the 2*3*1800 = 10800? or 20,000 like the ring of invisibility? Would this based on something in the books (i.e a ring of invibility but instead silence) and hence 5 credits or would it be 15 credits for completely custom?I think it would be 15 for completely custom. The price might be a difficult thing to figure. At-will Silence is quite powerful--you could use it on yourself for stealth, an opponent for anti-spellcasters (although the save DC would be low), or even in an opponent's square as a counterspell. That last would be the deadliest, I think: PC readies to put Silence adjacent to the opponent, while ally/ongoing effect deals damage. My hunch is that it would not be allowed, for that purpose. If it were, it would probably be even more expensive than the invis. Limited uses per day would help a lot. Restricting it to self-only would also help a lot.
TelinArtho 01-24-07, 01:58 PM	I wish I did, but I don't see an error with that. A dive is a form of a charge, Rules of the Game has declared that you can dive with a piercing weapon, so yeah. Lance + Spirited Charge + Dive should result in 4x damage. Ick. As for the simple question of centaurs using Spiritual Charge, the current ruling is yes, they can. Open mouth - stick in foot - close mouth... chew. Okay - I screwed up and I even went against what I said before. Retract my answer and make it the same as MWB's... your going to trade 20ft fly, +1bab, +3will and these bonuses: +8str, +4dex, 4con, -2int, +2wis to this: +10str, -2dex, +4con, -4int, -4cha and 2 more natural armor, and natural reach(witch you could get with a weapon). Yes and no. Bear in mind, to get the spirited charge benefit, you are spending 2 feats (Ride by attack, Spirited Charge) and at least one skill point (Ride) in order to get the 4x damage dive that you want. Alternatively, my ogre who is flying slightly slower, wielding a reach weapon is looking at 20ft total reach to threaten with. Replace your two feats with say - Combat expertise, Improved trip - and he's in a pretty powerful position. To each his own though - I certainly recognize that a centaur has his place - I just don't know that I would make him a flyer by tacking on 3 more LA.
TelinArtho 01-24-07, 02:02 PM	How much would a custom ring of silence cost credit wise and gp wise? I'm thinking command word activated like a ring of invisibility. (Both are 2nd level spells, one dealing with sound, one dealing with sight). I'm presuming it would be cast like the spell, so you could cast it on opponents or on an area, or on yourself. Would it be the 2*3*1800 = 10800? or 20,000 like the ring of invisibility? Would this based on something in the books (i.e a ring of invibility but instead silence) and hence 5 credits or would it be 15 credits for completely custom? The ring of invisibility is based on a continuous item rather than command word because it effectively is continuous: 2 * 3 * 2000 * 2 (continuous with duration in minutes) = 24000gp. Since silence uses the same duration and is the same level, I would be inclined to agree with a 20kgp price. It would still be 15 credits regardless though.
MindWandererB 01-24-07, 02:05 PM	@Iced and Mitza: I completely disagree with the Indivara vs. Half-Dragon Tyrannosaur fight. Let me spell it out: Indivara moves in to breathe. At the end of her round, she is 40' away from the Tyro. Since she lacks fly-by attack or anything like it, she's stuck there. The tyro moves 30 of its 80 feet and attacks her. It could even charge. In fact, even if she breathed and then moved away, it could still charge her (100' for Indi vs. 160' for Tyro). There's no reason why it should be completely helpless like that, with the limited range of her breath weapon.
Hirumajoe 01-24-07, 02:09 PM	I think it would be 15 for completely custom. The price might be a difficult thing to figure. At-will Silence is quite powerful--you could use it on yourself for stealth, an opponent for anti-spellcasters (although the save DC would be low), or even in an opponent's square as a counterspell. That last would be the deadliest, I think: PC readies to put Silence adjacent to the opponent, while ally/ongoing effect deals damage. My hunch is that it would not be allowed, for that purpose. If it were, it would probably be even more expensive than the invis. Limited uses per day would help a lot. Restricting it to self-only would also help a lot. Actually, I should think the ally readies to put Silence adjacent to the opponent while the primary character deals the damage. Good use for a psicrystal or a talking familiar. Ok, in that case, would a 3 times a day, command word, normal casting ring (i.e. self, space, targeted character) cost 2*3*1800*3/5 = 6480 and 15 credits? Edited: Nevermind, seeing Telin's post indicates the below is off, and should probably be 20k and 15 credits. And the other option would be unlimited times a day, self only costing 2*3*1800 = 10800 and 15 credits? I'd probably go with the former, if only because its cheaper and more flexible (assuming I did that right.)
TelinArtho 01-24-07, 02:10 PM	I can confirm the 3/day Silence item at CL3 at 6480gp - Faelto has one and has had reasonable success with it...
Maraxus 01-24-07, 02:48 PM	Actually little is known, about Dragon lifecycles. These creatures of great might and magic. They are powerful as they are mysterious. Modern science knows, they lay egs, but this is only half the truth. Like Angels, worthy mortals happen to ascent to dragondom, when time has come. And so it has happened. For loyal service to Zassl, the Core Coliseum's Disciple to the Dragons and for repeated bravey in the face of overwhelming opponents, Pockedwyrm was blessed by "the other" Divine power that is the Dragons. So, through the last weeks, he had build himself a nest, or better to say: a cocoon. Now, Pockedwyrm has hatched again, and his new self is a beautiful Dragon. (well ... Pseudodragon, but who cares.)
MitzaVolchenko 01-24-07, 03:19 PM	Actually little is known, about Dragon lifecycles. These creatures of great might and magic. They are powerful as they are mysterious. Modern science knows, they lay egs, but this is only half the truth. Like Angels, worthy mortals happen to ascent to dragondom, when time has come. And so it has happened. For loyal service to Zassl, the Core Coliseum's Disciple to the Dragons and for repeated bravey in the face of overwhelming opponents, Pockedwyrm was blessed by "the other" Divine power that is the Dragons. So, through the last weeks, he had build himself a nest, or better to say: a cocoon. Now, Pockedwyrm has hatched again, and his new self is a beautiful Dragon. (well ... Pseudodragon, but who cares.) "Dragon, indeed! I think not!" Lady Indivara sniffs snobbishly. "Just wait until Lord Frost hears about this one!" she chuckles evilly before shoving her snout into a goblet of wine and causing it to bubble up like champagne with a little tendril of electricity.
MitzaVolchenko 01-24-07, 03:25 PM	@Iced and Mitza: I completely disagree with the Indivara vs. Half-Dragon Tyrannosaur fight. Let me spell it out: Indivara moves in to breathe. At the end of her round, she is 40' away from the Tyro. Since she lacks fly-by attack or anything like it, she's stuck there. The tyro moves 30 of its 80 feet and attacks her. It could even charge. In fact, even if she breathed and then moved away, it could still charge her (100' for Indi vs. 160' for Tyro). There's no reason why it should be completely helpless like that, with the limited range of her breath weapon. I haven't really reviewed the fight. You could be right...though figuring movement, she simple withdraws or takes run actions, heals up and goes back to it. The wand charges would need to be figured. It gains an 80' fly, she maintains maneuverability and speed advantage and can always duck out of sight and burrow to heal up as well. As far as I know it can't heal. Do me a favor and PM Iced for the fix on charges. Only thing that puts a real dmaper on it is if it out damages the number of charges of CLW she has or if it crits and she fails reflex.
Macbrea 01-24-07, 03:29 PM	'I once saw a green dragon with a pseudodragon familiar!', Lord Frost chuckles. 'He liked to have him turn a little music box and hold a cup for spare gold coins. Played one of the most annoying stuck in your head type songs.'
MindWandererB 01-24-07, 03:30 PM	The problem is, it hits with its bite on a roll of 3. Then it does improved grab and swallow whole with its +34 grapple check. There's no way for her to end every round out of reach without the ability to move twice in the same round, and with an attack range of only 40 feet. I'll PM Iced and ask him to actually play it out without making assumptions.
SauroGrenom 01-24-07, 03:40 PM	MWB, I'm running late on submitting guild CAP/GAP this week. I'll get it to you in the next few hours if that's alright. The last day and a half have been unexpectedly crazy. I had my 1st med school interview yesterday (I think it went well), and my wife has come down with a nasty virus. Her throat is hurtin bad, so she was up all night crying (took her to the doc this morning). As you may guess, if she's not sleeping, neither am I. So I'm like a zombie today, everything is taking way longer than it should. Thanks, Sauro BTW: I totally agree on the half dragon tyranosaurus thing.
MitzaVolchenko 01-24-07, 03:41 PM	The problem is, it hits with its bite on a roll of 3. Then it does improved grab and swallow whole with its +34 grapple check. There's no way for her to end every round out of reach without the ability to move twice in the same round, and with an attack range of only 40 feet. I'll PM Iced and ask him to actually play it out without making assumptions. That means that it moves to burrow and the beastie has to notice her...either way, it is by no means the auto-loss for Indi that you seem to indicate. I am not too sure on the battlefield map for it, either. My vision of it is a dry riverbed with limited mobility for something it's size...though it might be interesting to do the swallowed whole hack at it from within tactic.
MindWandererB 01-24-07, 03:48 PM	@Mitza: <shrug> The best way to find out is to actually run the fight. Now that you have a better idea of what it is, you may want to clarify your tactics to specify the timing. You'll have to be very precise about your actions and movements, because it's one mistake and <gulp>. @Sauro: No problem. Not only do I understand (med school interviews are a pain--and I use the word "pain" only because the word I'd really use would get auto-censored--and that sounds like a nasty virus), but Vath is having unavoidable life-related delays as well. I have about four hours before I have to go to work; if everything is in before then, we're all good.
Hirumajoe 01-24-07, 03:48 PM	At-will Silence is quite powerful--you could use it on yourself for stealth, an opponent for anti-spellcasters (although the save DC would be low), or even in an opponent's square as a counterspell. That last would be the deadliest, I think: PC readies to put Silence adjacent to the opponent, while ally/ongoing effect deals damage. Just had a realization here. When you say counterspell, do you mean as in the spell is wasted type counter spell? Or that nothing happens? Because if thats as strong as you suggest, then forget the ring of Silence, I'll drop Concussive Blast (Never used) on Valen and take Control Sound... I'm assuming you could change a command word or a spell verbal component (including spell completion) into say, "Claptu Verada Ni--achoo" or better yet "Beloved animal companion or trusty companion, run away!" Edit: Or best yet: "Knellstriker, do a Barrel Roll!"
TelinArtho 01-24-07, 03:58 PM	On another note, Bulgar has finally reached ECL4. This means two things: He gets to go on another dragon quest and he wants a companion to go with him. Since Gonbow has disappeared for an undisclosed amount of time, I am again looking for a character who would be willing to face insurmountable odds in the aim of gaining great fame and rapport! If Gonbow and, by extension, Jade reappear - the second matter is resolved. However, I am looking for a questlord. The target: Very Young Green Dragon (CR4) Start Date: Either Jan 24 or Jan 31 if possible.I can pick it up. I'll completely understand if you want to try out some other Questlords (our schedules not matching up did make the first quest drag a bit). Well between you and Erithmu I've got two options on the Questlord. Anyone looking to pick up the reins and take Jade's place as Bulgar's fighting ally? (And either one of you is fine for me as a questlord. 'Rith - I'm not sure if your character will work out as a companion - but I'll need to take another look)
MindWandererB 01-24-07, 04:01 PM	Just had a realization here. When you say counterspell, do you mean as in the spell is wasted type counter spell? Or that nothing happens? Because if thats as strong as you suggest, then forget the ring of Silence, I'll drop Concussive Blast (Never used) on Valen and take Control Sound... I'm assuming you could change a command word or a spell verbal component (including spell completion) into say, "Claptu Verada Ni--achoo" or better yet "Beloved animal companion or trusty companion, run away!" Edit: Or best yet: "Knellstriker, do a Barrel Roll!" Reading Control Sound, I'm not sure you can use it to scramble verbal spell components. The fact that it has no save suggests that the sound still happens, it just reaches people's ears messed up. In which case the universe still hears the verbal component correctly and the spell still happens. Note that I've never been happy with the idea that silence--an illusion (glamer)--can stop "the universe" from "hearing" the component, and thus preventing the spell from happening. I would imagine that the universe would always succeed in disbelieving. But that's my rant. I'm thus not the best person to interpret how Control Sound should work under the circumstances, because I don't think Silence should, either (except that it specifically does). But yes: if you ready a Silence to cast upon opponent spellcasting, it should foil the spell if it has a verbal component.
Hirumajoe 01-24-07, 04:56 PM	Playing devil's advocate here... Reading Control Sound, I'm not sure you can use it to scramble verbal spell components. The fact that it has no save suggests that the sound still happens, it just reaches people's ears messed up. In which case the universe still hears the verbal component correctly and the spell still happens. Note that I've never been happy with the idea that silence--an illusion (glamer)--can stop "the universe" from "hearing" the component, and thus preventing the spell from happening. I would imagine that the universe would always succeed in disbelieving. But that's my rant. I'm thus not the best person to interpret how Control Sound should work under the circumstances, because I don't think Silence should, either (except that it specifically does). But yes: if you ready a Silence to cast upon opponent spellcasting, it should foil the spell if it has a verbal component. Hmm... But control sound is Psychokinesis [sonic]. It is in fact changing/polymorphing/subsituting for the sound. I would argue no one hears the original sound since its effectively been transformed. I mean, the caster doesn't even hear it properly. How about if you use the power to muffle it completely. Since the speaker *cannot* speak in a strong voice (since its muffled) does it prevent it? Control Sound Psychokinesis [Sonic] Level: Psion/wilder 2 Display: Auditory; see text Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./ level) Target: One sound or mixture of related sounds Duration: Concentration, up to 1 min./level; see text Saving Throw: None Power Resistance: No Power Points: 3 You shape and alter existing sounds. You can target one sound, such as a person speaking or singing, or a group of related sounds, such as the patter of many raindrops or the tramp of soldiers passing by. A sound as quiet as a snapping finger can be controlled. You can substitute any sound you have heard for the target sound. If you attempt to exactly duplicate the voice of a specific individual, or an inherently terrifying sound (such as a dragon’s roar), you must succeed on a Bluff check with a +5 circumstance bonus opposed by the intended listener’s Sense Motive check to avoid arousing suspicion. You can entirely muffle a noise or magnify a sound to such loudness that it drowns out all other conversation in the immediate area. In this way, you can provide yourself or any with a +4 circumstance bonus on Move Silently and Listen checks. Alternatively, you can use up the power in an instant. You do this by modulating a sound into a one-time destructive impetus that shatters nonmagical/nonpsionic, unattended objects of crystal, glass, ceramics, or porcelain (vials, bottles, flasks, jugs, mirrors, and so forth) in the area. Verbal (V) A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice. A silence spell or a gag spoils the incantation (and thus the spell). A spellcaster who has been deafened has a 20% chance to spoil any spell with a verbal component that he or she tries to cast. Actually, its kinda like a gag. The sound may start properly in the back of your throat but it reaches the outside messed up.
MindWandererB 01-24-07, 05:02 PM	It doesn't sound like you can really muffle a sound 100%. A +4 to Move Silently contraindicates that.
renlim 01-24-07, 05:37 PM	I'm not sure it hasn't come up with me before, but could "Detect Magic" locate a "Power stone" or other psionic device?
Hirumajoe 01-24-07, 05:38 PM	It doesn't sound like you can really muffle a sound 100%. A +4 to Move Silently contraindicates that. I personally don't read "Completely muffled" as "Strong Voice". If you want to go arguing about it that way, I know a strong voice is DC 0 to hear. I can make it effectively DC +4. Now its by definition quieter than a strong voice. Therefore it can't be used to cast a spell. However, I'm starting to think this is the wrong way to go about arguing it though, since its missing the basic point. Look at it this way. Its Psychokinesis. It affects the physical vibrations on the air. You are subsituting one sound for another. In order to work as advertised all the vibrations, everywhere, associated with that sound must be changed. Even the ones out of LOS. It must be changing it at the source. That includes the vibrations in his throat and at the source, his vocal cords. The sound passing his lips isn't the verbal component, its whatever vibrations the manifester wants. Edit: Although I can understand not wanting to have another spell/power like Silence. In that case houserule it away. But the fact of the matter is there is a precedence for a power to have that ability, namely causing problems for verbal components in spells as a 2nd level power/spell. It gives a purpose to the Silent Spell feat/Metamagic rods of silent spell.
MindWandererB 01-24-07, 06:08 PM	I'm not sure it hasn't come up with me before, but could "Detect Magic" locate a "Power stone" or other psionic device? Yes, it can. That's a basic transparency rule.
Eluria 01-24-07, 11:55 PM	Hi again guys. So, obviously I'm somewhat noobish here, and it seems like the Tavern is the place for all random questions... How does one go about, sort of, starting the roleplaying part of CoCo. It seems like there's a ton of in character action that goes on in quests and campaigns, but I'm not sure where that happens if you're not involved in that. Not that I'm fanatically desperate to RP, just curious... is that the main drive to join a guild? The quickstart guide is great for making a char and getting involved in some dying in the arena, but the whole CoCo experience seems awfully... established. Any suggestions for how a newcomer can start meeting people?
MindWandererB 01-25-07, 12:17 AM	We more or less get used to each other the longer we're here. We all have different areas of expertise, tones of voice, etc. that stand out the more we post. So post! Yeah, we are pretty established, but the turnover is fairly high. Consider the fact that I'm an "Elder," and got the title after only being here for, what, 10 months? Many of the rules and traditions were established by people who aren't here anymore. As for the RP, yes, the guild system can give you a big jump start. They're not perfect, and some guilds are better than others (almost none goes on in my poor TLT, but WAR and EHTC are quite lively). Campaigns are also great, if you can get into one. Multiplayer quests can be a good option, but those take credits. The roleplaying thread, unfortunately, is perpetually a bust. Ultimately... there's much more community between the players than the characters here. Much of that has to do with the fact that we generally build our characters to optimum win chances first, and for RP second. It often takes me quite a stretch of the imagination to give personalities to my characters (I mean, a werebat monk? Come on!). And characters tend to retire with alarming frequency. I have a much easier time remembering the dozen or so regular players here than the literally hundreds of their PCs that have come and gone in the arena. Anyway, you'll get a better feel for who we are and what we're like as time goes by.
Vathelokai 01-25-07, 12:47 AM	You can always walk into a guild and start up RP without being a member. Seriously, just walk right in and start talking to someone. A lot of the 'established' story and RP that goes on is really a spin off of a couple characters that rarely fought in the arena, but just quested all the time. Or some of them are multiple characters by one person who are all linked together. TelinArtho started the 'church of Denth' storyline primarily by making a bunch of Denth worshipers PCs and fighting in the arena. Similar thing happened when King Uther ran a series of quests based off the mythology that his characters were built on. Best not to think of it as established. Anyone can take over a corner of the world and simply declair their story (CoCo is a divinely morphic plane, after all; where else do these resurections come from). If you are looking to realy establish a character, the easiest way to do it is join a guild and take advantage of the credit free questing. Just find a questlord or a buddy to go along with you and say 'I wand my PC to be X in 5 lvs.'. Virgo (King Uther) declaired himself onto the city council, and you can too. I'm ranting. Going to bed now.:cool:
Iced 01-25-07, 01:00 AM	How many El below your character's EL does a Miniquest have to be to count as out of cycle?
MindWandererB 01-25-07, 01:07 AM	You can declare any miniquest of any EL to be out of cycle, if it's between your cycles.
c00lz3 01-25-07, 01:12 AM	I was wounder about the halfling racial +1 to thrown weapons. For example does it apply to using a thrown wepon in meele or Tk thrust attacks? It would seem that all these examples work from what I know.
MindWandererB 01-25-07, 01:22 AM	I would think that getting the +1 to hit when making a melee attack with a weapon that could be thrown is against the intention, there (they're good at throwing things; they're not just good with weapons that are intended to be thrown). The Violent Thrust option for TK specifically counts only your BAB + Int/Cha bonus. No size, no enhancement, and no racial.
c00lz3 01-25-07, 01:26 AM	I would think that getting the +1 to hit when making a melee attack with a weapon that could be thrown is against the intention, there (they're good at throwing things; they're not just good with weapons that are intended to be thrown). The Violent Thrust option for TK specifically counts only your BAB + Int/Cha bonus. No size, no enhancement, and no racial. halfling (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#halflings) The racial ablity has no mention of needing to throw the thrown weapons. The link takes you to the trown wepons section and I think this means thrown weapons in general not the action of throwing weapons. There is no reason not to get a +1 using a thrown weapon in meele. Are you sure about Tk it only says you replace dex with int.
Etiquette_Gnome 01-25-07, 03:23 AM	When I transfer a touch spell onto my familiar, am I able to cast a spell from a scroll without my familiar losing the touch spell charge?
Maraxus 01-25-07, 07:58 AM	halfling (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#halflings) The racial ablity has no mention of needing to throw the thrown weapons. The link takes you to the trown wepons section and I think this means thrown weapons in general not the action of throwing weapons. There is no reason not to get a +1 using a thrown weapon in meele. Are you sure about Tk it only says you replace dex with int. +1 racial bonus on attack rolls with thrown weapons and slings. In my understanding of your language, thrown weapon means a weapon that is thrown (in the moment of the attack), as opposed to a throwable weapon, that just needs to be able to get thrown, no matter, if it's thrown (in the moment of the attack) or not.
TelinArtho 01-25-07, 10:13 AM	When I transfer a touch spell onto my familiar, am I able to cast a spell from a scroll without my familiar losing the touch spell charge? Nope: Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master could. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.
MindWandererB 01-25-07, 01:08 PM	Although that doesn't really answer the question, since we treat scrolls like used items in many ways, and like cast spells in others. Telin's answer is correct, but I don't know exactly what to point out to explain why.
MitzaVolchenko 01-25-07, 01:25 PM	Spell completion items count as casting the spell. It is the same for command word activation items. You are in effect channelling the spells through an act of will and therefor letting the act of will that is maintaining the touch spell drop.
c00lz3 01-25-07, 01:38 PM	+1 racial bonus on attack rolls with thrown weapons and slings. In my understanding of your language, thrown weapon means a weapon that is thrown (in the moment of the attack), as opposed to a throwable weapon, that just needs to be able to get thrown, no matter, if it's thrown (in the moment of the attack) or not. So lets say you throw a sword, an item not ment to be thrown you dont get the +1. I am saying you only get +1 with: Daggers, clubs, shortspears, spears, darts, javelins, throwing axes, light hammers, tridents, shuriken, and nets. As they are thrown weapons not just wepons that can be thrown. Thrown weapons have there own catagory like reach & projectile.
MindWandererB 01-25-07, 01:45 PM	So lets say you throw a sword, an item not ment to be thrown you dont get the +1. I am saying you only get +1 with: Daggers, clubs, shortspears, spears, darts, javelins, throwing axes, light hammers, tridents, shuriken, and nets. As they are thrown weapons not just wepons that can be thrown. Thrown weapons have there own catagory like reach & projectile.Actually, there are only melee and ranged categories. I think the halfling would get the +1 for throwing a sword (and -4 for improvising, of course). Spell completion items count as casting the spell. It is the same for command word activation items. You are in effect channelling the spells through an act of will and therefor letting the act of will that is maintaining the touch spell drop.Not always. For instance, you can't use Share Spells with a spell cast from a scroll. And it's not clear in which cases scrolls count as cast spells and in which they don't.
c00lz3 01-25-07, 01:49 PM	Actually, there are only melee and ranged categories. I think the halfling would get the +1 for throwing a sword (and -4 for improvising, of course). Okay then subcatagory, meelee thrown & ranged thrown are still thrown weapons. The racial ability says throw weapons, we have a section of weapons that says just that. I would think if it works with any wepon you throw it would be more specific.
MindWandererB 01-25-07, 01:52 PM	The problem we're having is exactly that: it's not more specific. We don't know for sure whether it means "weapons that they throw" or "weapons that are typically thrown." My inference comes from the flavor text: "Throwing and slinging stones is a universal sport among halflings, and they develop especially good aim." This implies that their skill is with throwing things in general.
MitzaVolchenko 01-25-07, 01:55 PM	Not always. For instance, you can't use Share Spells with a spell cast from a scroll. And it's not clear in which cases scrolls count as cast spells and in which they don't. Unless the scroll in question is "A History of the Art of Belly Button Lint Sculpting" they all are spells being cast. -A scroll is a spell (or collection of spells) that has been stored in written form. A spell on a scroll can be used only once. The writing vanishes from the scroll when the spell is activated. Using a scroll is basically like casting a spell. -Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance. -A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way. I would presume that the reason you can't share a scroll spell is that you mayor may not have been the originator of the power in it and therefor it lacks the personal link to extend to your familiar, though I am not finding where it says tha a familiar cannot share spells that are cast on the master from scrolls...perhaps it is in the FAQ or some such as it is not in the Familiar description. Share Spells At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of "You" on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself. A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiar’s type (magical beast).
c00lz3 01-25-07, 01:57 PM	The problem we're having is exactly that: it's not more specific. We don't know for sure whether it means "weapons that they throw" or "weapons that are typically thrown." My inference comes from the flavor text: "Throwing and slinging stones is a universal sport among halflings, and they develop especially good aim." This implies that their skill is with throwing things in general. You have a good point but I only use the srd so I don't have any flavor to go by, so I assume it's specific. The link takes you to thrown weapons section, that also leads me to the same idea. I will probably ask around on other threads. It is of upmost importance to halflings!
MitzaVolchenko 01-25-07, 01:59 PM	The problem we're having is exactly that: it's not more specific. We don't know for sure whether it means "weapons that they throw" or "weapons that are typically thrown." My inference comes from the flavor text: "Throwing and slinging stones is a universal sport among halflings, and they develop especially good aim." This implies that their skill is with throwing things in general. I would go with what MWB says here...any weapon is throwable as an improvised weapon. Do halflings get a +1 to guisarmes simply beacuse it is posible to chuck one at your oppoenent...or broken bottles...or chairs...you see my point. Think of it this way, what does having good aim have to do with stabbing someone with a shuriken (ouch, btw!)?
TelinArtho 01-25-07, 02:04 PM	I would support what MWB has said thus far on the Thrown Items with regard to halflings. They gain the bonus with weapons that they throw not just thrown weapons in general. In other words, if they make a ranged attack with something other than a projectile (as in bow, crossbow, catapult...), then the bonus applies. If they are wielding a javelin in melee - they do not get the bonus, if they are throwing improvised chairs - they do. @Mitza - the item about sharing spells from scrolls was in a rules of the game article which is linked in the TAO.
MitzaVolchenko 01-25-07, 02:10 PM	@Mitza - the item about sharing spells from scrolls was in a rules of the game article which is linked in the TAO. LOL shoulda known that is where that kinda ruling would be lurking.
MindWandererB 01-25-07, 03:06 PM	LOL shoulda known that is where that kinda ruling would be lurking. Yeah, no kidding. I often wonder what the R&D team at WotC would think of the gordian knot that is our set of rulings. I hope they'd be righteously upset at themselves for missing so much. Okay, that'd be optimistic, but I really doubt they realize the magnitude of the ambiguity of the RAW.
c00lz3 01-25-07, 04:00 PM	What the rules say +1 racial bonus on attack rolls with thrown weapons and slings. What your saying +1 racial bonus on attack rolls with slings and when throwning weapons. I understand where you coming from but when I look as this it seems very specific. I asked on the races forum & will probably ask on the optimization boards. I will post in the oracle for a sound ruling one way or the other.
Macbrea 01-25-07, 04:12 PM	The problem with RAW is some things can be taken as being idiotic. A DM fixes the problem by making a ruling on each subject. The halfling sling/thrown item should be when using an item as a thrown item or using a sling. Not when using an item that could be thrown but just hasn't been and the person is trying to decide that it's really a melee item. Other places you would find the DM reading the rules strictly as stupid would be grapple. Technically, if a person with a two handed sword is grappled. They don't have any hands available to them during a grapple as the free action of releasing or dropping items with your hands isn't a listed item that you can do. No DM in their right mind would say, 'You have been grappled you may not drop the two handed sword!'
c00lz3 01-25-07, 04:25 PM	The problem with RAW is some things can be taken as being idiotic. A DM fixes the problem by making a ruling on each subject. The halfling sling/thrown item should be when using an item as a thrown item or using a sling. Not when using an item that could be thrown but just hasn't been and the person is trying to decide that it's really a melee item. Other places you would find the DM reading the rules strictly as stupid would be grapple. Technically, if a person with a two handed sword is grappled. They don't have any hands available to them during a grapple as the free action of releasing or dropping items with your hands isn't a listed item that you can do. No DM in their right mind would say, 'You have been grappled you may not drop the two handed sword!' That doesnt make sense in your example you are grappled you can drop the sword as in the rules for action in combat. The list under grapple says you can perform any of the following actions, it only limit certain actions. It doesnt say you can drop prone but you can and this is within the rules. There is nothing that says the halflng racial works with anything you throw only with thrown weapons.
Eluria 01-25-07, 05:06 PM	Ultimately... there's much more community between the players than the characters here. Much of that has to do with the fact that we generally build our characters to optimum win chances first, and for RP second. It often takes me quite a stretch of the imagination to give personalities to my characters (I mean, a werebat monk? Come on!). And characters tend to retire with alarming frequency. I have a much easier time remembering the dozen or so regular players here than the literally hundreds of their PCs that have come and gone in the arena. Anyway, you'll get a better feel for who we are and what we're like as time goes by. Well that all makes sense; sounds like a good answer and some good advice. I appreciate the warm welcome!
c00lz3 01-25-07, 06:56 PM	What would be acceptabe to replace javelins in a Efficient Quiver? shortspear (almost eactly the same) rapier (dont know) Trident (dont know) Lance (bigger so no) others?
MindWandererB 01-25-07, 07:20 PM	Not a rapier, certainly--wrong shape. A trident is more spear-sized, I would think.
Maraxus 01-26-07, 07:51 AM	Pushing someone levitating Okay, how would it work, you have one person Levitating and another one flying. The Flying person wants to move the levitating, which allows that. (Mulitiple answers possible) -The flying person has to "pick up" the other person with a move action and can then carry it around. -The flying person can simply move the levitater around, if she could carry it, no "pick up" action required. -Same as above but the levitating person is weithless due to the levitation. -The flying person has to bull rush the levitater around as per bull rush rules, but the levitater can voluntary fail his opposed roll and set it to: (natural 1 | - infitite) -Something else.
hogarth 01-26-07, 08:35 AM	Pushing someone levitating Okay, how would it work, you have one person Levitating and another one flying. The Flying person wants to move the levitating, which allows that. (Mulitiple answers possible) -The flying person has to "pick up" the other person with a move action and can then carry it around. -The flying person can simply move the levitater around, if she could carry it, no "pick up" action required. -Same as above but the levitating person is weithless due to the levitation. -The flying person has to bull rush the levitater around as per bull rush rules, but the levitater can voluntary fail his opposed roll and set it to: (natural 1 | - infitite) -Something else. I would agree with the bolded option above. Just because a levitating character is "weightless" doesn't mean that they're "inertialess".
UserNamer 01-26-07, 10:59 AM	ignore
MindWandererB 01-26-07, 03:09 PM	I would agree with the bolded option above. Just because a levitating character is "weightless" doesn't mean that they're "inertialess". I would go with the bull rush option with the voluntary failure. Basically means the same as the one hogarth picked, but in case of a funky rules interaction, I would phrase it as a bull rush.
hogarth 01-26-07, 03:45 PM	(1) Was it ever determined whether a character can use Gather Information to eliminate the credit cost of an item he's crafting himself? (2) Does the Diplomatic Career bonus to XP/GP apply to miniquests, too? I would guess "yes" on #1 and "no" on #2, but I'm not sure.
UserNamer 01-26-07, 03:50 PM	I think you can just buy items using Gather Info, but it isn't allowed to buy wand with less than 50 charges
UserNamer 01-26-07, 03:58 PM	Can you pay the spell-casting service to casts spells higher than your ECL?
TelinArtho 01-26-07, 04:23 PM	@Mitza and Iced - for the world event, the monster fights are supposed to take place on a pre-rolled map (as in before the monster is rolled).
MitzaVolchenko 01-26-07, 04:26 PM	@Mitza and Iced - for the world event, the monster fights are supposed to take place on a pre-rolled map (as in before the monster is rolled). Tell Iced. I am not sure what is going on or what the ever living heck I am supposed to be doing beyond trying to combat whatever falls into my path. the rules have been edited or ignored more than once since I signed up for it.
Zevox 01-26-07, 04:31 PM	@Mitza and Iced - for the world event, the monster fights are supposed to take place on a pre-rolled map (as in before the monster is rolled). Acuatlly, as I recall from when Sauro ran my one week of being involved in that, the ML is simply supposed to pick a map that fits with the monster, not roll it randomly. Zevox
TelinArtho 01-26-07, 04:38 PM	Acuatlly, as I recall from when Sauro ran my one week of being involved in that, the ML is simply supposed to pick a map that fits with the monster, not roll it randomly. Zevox Hmm - according to the entry in Guild hall: The questlord runs this quest in a seperate thread, like all quests, but the fight otherwise follows all the rules for a monster fight: the map is predetermined, the monster must be randomly rolled, and automatic activities count. It can still be run in a play-by-post manner, but all the typical arena rules must be followed. This includes surprise rounds and handicaps as normal for slightly mismatched ECLs. That said - it seems to indicate that it would be rolled and noted in the weekly pairings. Still - I think one of the regular maps was implied - not a custom map. I admit though that I am only an observer - and I am not sure. Perhaps the GuildLord has a word about this? (MWB?)
c00lz3 01-26-07, 05:09 PM	Tk Thrust (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/telekineticThrust.htm) All of the text says you are throwing (hurling) objects/creatures The halfling racial bonus on thrown weapons would apply here?
SauroGrenom 01-26-07, 05:11 PM	Acuatlly, as I recall from when Sauro ran my one week of being involved in that, the ML is simply supposed to pick a map that fits with the monster, not roll it randomly. ZevoxThat's what Cat told me to do. I was on IM at the time that I was rolling up the monsters, so I asked him if I should roll up a map as well. He told me to pick. Since then, I've got the impression that I should roll the map randomly. Vath was doing that for Raskos's participation in the event. In TAO's second mission on the event, I've been rolling the maps as well.
MindWandererB 01-26-07, 05:59 PM	Yeah... there were some rules about it that I proposed, that Cat glossed over and sort of okayed, but then vetoed later. I'll change the offending line to match what Cat said. Edit: Oh, that was in my announcement, not the rules. Okay; I'll make it correct in the rules, which are silent on the matter.
Maraxus 01-26-07, 07:17 PM	Tk Thrust (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/telekineticThrust.htm) All of the text says you are throwing (hurling) objects/creatures The halfling racial bonus on thrown weapons would apply here? That was on the last page, too. I'd say no, because it's no thrown weapon in the common sense but it is definitly unclear so the pitlord shall do what pleases him.
c00lz3 01-26-07, 08:54 PM	That was on the last page, too. I'd say no, because it's no thrown weapon in the common sense but it is definitly unclear so the pitlord shall do what pleases him. How is it unclear? The power states you make ranged attack rolls for each object/creature thrown. I wounder what it would be if not thrown? @ MindWandererB - what are your views on this?
MindWandererB 01-27-07, 04:23 AM	How is it unclear? The power states you make ranged attack rolls for each object/creature thrown. I wounder what it would be if not thrown? @ MindWandererB - what are your views on this? As I stated before, TK specifically lists what bonuses you get to apply: BAB and Int/Cha. That's it; no size, no enhancement, no nothing.
Caterane 01-27-07, 08:41 AM	This tavern is now closed. Please continue discussions in the CoCo Tavern VIII.